Re: PESO: Another Chevy Show Pic
Great shot. Lovely machines. Regards Albano --- Paul Stenquist <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Here's another shot from the tri-five Chevy > anniversary show of last > weekend. This is from the cruise that followed the > event. It's Main > Street, Milford, Michigan. The car in the lead > sports 600 supercharged > horsepower. That's enough to make even one of these > old "shoebox" > Chevies move crisply. > http://www.photo.net/photodb/photo?photo_id=3582841&size=lg > > Albano Garcia Photography & Graphic Design http://www.albanogarcia.com.ar http://www.flaneur.albanogarcia.com.ar Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs
Re: PESOs - Greece in Alaska
Tom, I prefer your tight shots - because I hated so seeing this monstrosity in person in the context of that glorious landscape. As I recall the place was open in 1992 when we were there - but I can't recall if it was just a trinket store or a place to rest - kind of an insult to the Native Americans, it was intended to imitate an igloo. Were I not setting off on my long journey soo I'd dig up my journal and pics and see what I wrote - or my copy of the MILEPOST for that year... Idea - what milepost is it? I could easily find it then and see what is said. >From the sky in that shot I'm guessing you were in luck that THE MOUNTAIN was out on your trip. night all, ann Tom C wrote: > > Hmmm... :0 It was an interesting place and it's very very hard, at least > where we went, to not find photo worthy subjects. Thanks. > > Tom C. > > >From: Bruce Dayton <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >Reply-To: pentax-discuss@pdml.net > >To: Tom C > >Subject: Re: PESOs - Greece in Alaska > >Date: Thu, 28 Jul 2005 13:59:31 -0700 > > > >Hello Tom, > > > >I actually ike the context shot the best. The scenery looks amazing > >there. Thanks for sharing this - an Alaska trip is on my to do list. > > > >-- > >Best regards, > >Bruce > > > > > >Thursday, July 28, 2005, 12:50:49 PM, you wrote: > > > >TC> From the recent Alaska trip. This was on the road between Anchorage > >and > >TC> Denali National Park. > > > >TC> http://www.photo.net/photodb/photo?photo_id=3581908 > > > >TC> http://www.photo.net/photodb/photo?photo_id=3581909 > > > >TC> And to add a little context to the above shots: > > > >TC> http://www.photo.net/photodb/photo?photo_id=3581910 > > > >TC> Tom C. > > > > > > > >
RE: PESO: Another Chevy Show Pic
;-) Shel > [Original Message] > From: Paul Stenquist > Here's another shot from the tri-five Chevy anniversary show of last > weekend. This is from the cruise that followed the event. It's Main > Street, Milford, Michigan. The car in the lead sports 600 supercharged > horsepower. That's enough to make even one of these old "shoebox" > Chevies move crisply. > http://www.photo.net/photodb/photo?photo_id=3582841&size=lg
Re: PESO: Deliver or Die
Frank, that's a really good photograph. frank theriault wrote: I could be wrong, but that motto started among NYC messengers at least 15 years ago. At the recent CMWC (Cycle Messenger World Championships) in New York, this fellow had an accident several hundred yards from the finish line (I didn't see the accident, so I don't know if anyone else was involved or not); note the "tacoed" (as in "bent like a taco") front wheel. I was standing about 50 yards from the finish line, when I saw him running by. It was a one shot deal (not having motor drive or anything), so I was glad when I saw on the neg that I caught him mid-stride. IMHO, he sums up the spirit of competition that was evident at the event: It's not when or how you finish, it's that you finish. http://www.photo.net/photodb/photo?photo_id=3579327&size=lg Now, after all that, I don't how good the photo actually is, but I rather like it for my own reasons that may be independant of the quality of the piece. Comments are welcome. cheers, frank -- When you're worried or in doubt, Run in circles, (scream and shout).
Re: PESO: Another Chevy Show Pic
Those cars don't hum, Boris Shel > [Original Message] > From: Boris Liberman > Hmmm, I wish I was there to hear the humming of *all* these motors...
PESO PAW - Drop Kick Me Jesus ...
Upon coming up from the subway station last week, this was the first thing I saw. I couldn't help but sing a little song under my breath. Maybe some of you know it ... some lyrics are in the ALT tag. http://home.earthlink.net/~pdml-pics/dropkick.html Shel
Re: PESO: Another Chevy Show Pic
Hi! Here's another shot from the tri-five Chevy anniversary show of last weekend. This is from the cruise that followed the event. It's Main Street, Milford, Michigan. The car in the lead sports 600 supercharged horsepower. That's enough to make even one of these old "shoebox" Chevies move crisply. http://www.photo.net/photodb/photo?photo_id=3582841&size=lg Paul, have you invented time travel? It certainly looks like you did travel back in time to take this shot... Hmmm, I wish I was there to hear the humming of *all* these motors... ;-) Boris
Re: PESO - Pairs
Hi! Taken in Monument Valley of some of the vegetation. Due to the unusually wet spring, I suspect that there were more greenery and flowers than would be normal in the valley. Pentax *istD, A 70-210/4, handheld ISO 200, 1/1000 sec @ f/5.6 Converted from Raw using Capture One LE http://www.daytonphoto.com/PAW/monumentvalley_0508.htm I should say that after your magnificent landscape, this image looks rather, well, ordinary... Nice capture nonetheless... Personally, I like the original version the most... Boris
Re: PESO Picnic
On 7/28/05, Shel Belinkoff <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Hi Scott ... > > Just what, exactly, don't you like about the photo? It is too soft. It almost looks like it's out of focus. > How does the slide look projected or viewed on a light table? Just about like the web image. No projector here, so I'm going by what the loupe tells me. > > Is this a scan directly from the slide? If so, what scanner did you use? > How much of what you dislike may have been a result of the lens, how much > the film (I've heard it said that Sensia tends towards a soft, less sharp > image - never tried it m'self), how much the processing, and how much the > post processing? The scan is from the slide. Canon 8400F. I think it's a combination of both the lens and the film. This roll contains photos taken with the FA28-90 and the F80-200. While all the images were grainy, the photos taken with the F80-200 were visibly sharper. Sensia 400 does have a reputation for being grainy/soft, depending on who you ask. Processing was done by Fuji. Post processing consisted of a little backlight correction, unsharp mask, resizing, and "save for the web". I tried to make the scan look as much as possible like the slide without being too heavy handed. My knowlege of Photoshop is very limited, so I try to keep things simple. I've been pleased with the 28-90 for print film, but it seems that even the faster Sensia really exposes the lens' weaknesses. As soon as I get my Astia 100 slides back from Fuji, I'll do a bit of comparison, of course. Perhaps I'm reading a bit too much into it and should try a few more rolls before condemning the lens. Thanks for taking the time, Shel. Much appreciated. > > > [Original Message] > > From: Scott Loveless > > > > This photo was taken a little over a month ago at Cowan's Gap State > > Park near Ft. Loudon, PA. This is from my first ever roll of chrome. > > Sensia 400, *ist, and the infamous FA28-90/3.5-5.6. I've heard others > > voice rather negative opinions about this lens before, but I never > > really noticed just how bad it is until I got my slides back from the > > processor. > > > > http://twosixteen.com/gallery/index.php?id=132 > > > > I have since started shooting Sensia 100 with prime lenses and am > > looking forward to getting those back to do a little comparison. > > > -- Scott Loveless http://www.twosixteen.com -- "You have to hold the button down" -Arnold Newman
Re: PESO: Another Chevy Show Pic
I want to echo what Frank said. Great angle and a wonderful shot! -- Bruce Thursday, July 28, 2005, 7:59:22 PM, you wrote: ft> On 7/28/05, Paul Stenquist <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> Here's another shot from the tri-five Chevy anniversary show of last >> weekend. This is from the cruise that followed the event. It's Main >> Street, Milford, Michigan. The car in the lead sports 600 supercharged >> horsepower. That's enough to make even one of these old "shoebox" >> Chevies move crisply. >> http://www.photo.net/photodb/photo?photo_id=3582841&size=lg ft> Proving again that "there's no replacement for displacement"! In a ft> straight line, would I want a slammed Civic or a blown Chevy? ft> H... Let me think for a moment. ft> As my younger friends would say, "That car is ~sick~!" (apparently ft> that's a good thing - sort of like "bad" or "phat"...) ft> That's a terrific photo, Paul. Not just for the way you captured the ft> lead car (from the perfect angle - all muscle and bulges and power), ft> but the line of Chevies behind it, even snaking around the corner and ft> down the hill! That's so cool. ft> There are lots of nice details in this one: the stop sign and red ft> light (as if they're stopping ), the indigo hot rod on the left ft> almost looks like it's stepping aside in deference to these classics, ft> the lack of distracting bystanders, and the lovely trees. ft> It's about as perfect as you could get this photo to be. ft> Terrific! ft> cheers, ft> frank
RE: PESO: Brand New Bike
Yep I remember the 2 times I received bicycles. The first was a beatup old hand-me-down from friends of the family. The second several years later was a brand new Sears & Roebuck Spaceliner. Candy Apple red with chrome all over and rocket decals. My son out grew his bicycle last summer and I bought him a new one. I could have gone with a 26" rim, but got the 24" model deliberately so I'd have an extra chance to buy him one more bike before he's grown. :) Tom C. From: Powell Hargrave <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Reply-To: pentax-discuss@pdml.net To: pentax-discuss@pdml.net Subject: PESO: Brand New Bike Date: Wed, 27 Jul 2005 22:29:04 -0700 How many of us can remember this day? http://members.shaw.ca/hargravep/Image7.htm Powell
Re: PESO: Deliver or Die
A nice shot with a story that only improves it. I can see why you like it - this is one that a caption goes so well with. For a quick grab, you did great! Now, the big question is ... is this a snapshot -- Best regards, Bruce Thursday, July 28, 2005, 7:43:31 PM, you wrote: ft> I could be wrong, but that motto started among NYC messengers at least ft> 15 years ago. ft> At the recent CMWC (Cycle Messenger World Championships) in New York, ft> this fellow had an accident several hundred yards from the finish line ft> (I didn't see the accident, so I don't know if anyone else was ft> involved or not); note the "tacoed" (as in "bent like a taco") front ft> wheel. ft> I was standing about 50 yards from the finish line, when I saw him ft> running by. It was a one shot deal (not having motor drive or ft> anything), so I was glad when I saw on the neg that I caught him ft> mid-stride. ft> IMHO, he sums up the spirit of competition that was evident at the ft> event: It's not when or how you finish, it's that you finish. ft> http://www.photo.net/photodb/photo?photo_id=3579327&size=lg ft> Now, after all that, I don't how good the photo actually is, but I ft> rather like it for my own reasons that may be independant of the ft> quality of the piece. Comments are welcome. ft> cheers, ft> frank
RE: PAW PESO - Pigeons
View it upside down ;-)) Shel > [Original Message] > From: Tim Øsleby > Strange. > This photo has got many positive comments. But me, I don't like it. Think > it's because of the shadows in foreground. Generally I don't like shadows > leaning towards me like this. They make my eyes slide down, out of the > frame. > http://home.earthlink.net/~pdml-pics/pigeons.html > > K-body, K28/3.5, Fuji Reala ...
Re: PESO: Brand New Bike
Very nice. Reminds me of how difficult it was to teach my kids to ride. I spent a lot of time running alongside with one hand on the back of the seat. Of course it was all worth it when I watched them take off on their own. Paul On Jul 28, 2005, at 11:16 PM, frank theriault wrote: On 7/28/05, Powell Hargrave <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: How many of us can remember this day? http://members.shaw.ca/hargravep/Image7.htm Wow! That's a great photo, capturing a moment that many of us remember well. Learning to ride one's first "two-wheeler" is a milestone to be cherished and remembered forever - I know I remember mine. My dad (bless his heart) brought along his Yashica A 6x6 (except then they were called 2 1/4 by 2 1/4) tlr to record the event. I was three years old. My mom still has the pix. One day, I should see if I can find them. Who'd have thunk that I'd be making my living from riding a bike, this many years later. BTW, Powell, glad to see your son (I assume that's your son) is wearing a helmet. Whether it's the law or not, it's important to get them used to wearing them right off the bat. I wear mine all the time - I've got so few brain cells left, I have to protect those that are still around. A fun yet poignant photo. cheers, frank -- "Sharpness is a bourgeois concept." -Henri Cartier-Bresson
Re: PAW PESO - Earlier Shine Stand Snap
On 7/27/05, Shel Belinkoff <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > This is the first in a series which went up some time ago. Thought it > might add a little more context to the shot I put up this evening. > > http://home.earthlink.net/~pdml-pics/shine1.html I recall seeing this before, and I like it just as much now as I did then. For reasons I can't articulate, I like that we can't see the body or face of the fellow whose shoes are being shined. The cigar smoker, staring off into the distance, apparently waiting his turn, is wonderfully captured. For some reason, he reminds me of Daddy Warbucks in the Annie comic strips (probably the cigar). Love the mirror on the wall reflecting the calendar - it's a perfect "foil" for the composition as it balances the rest of the frame so beautifully. Another great photo, Shel! cheers, frank -- "Sharpness is a bourgeois concept." -Henri Cartier-Bresson
Re: PESO: Deliver or Die
Good grab Frank. Nice contrast and tonality. Paul On Jul 28, 2005, at 11:17 PM, Shel Belinkoff wrote: I, too, rather like it for my own reasons, independent of its quality. Shel [Original Message] From: frank theriault < http://www.photo.net/photodb/photo?photo_id=3579327&size=lg Now, after all that, I don't how good the photo actually is, but I rather like it for my own reasons that may be independant of the quality of the piece.
Re: PESO: Another Chevy Show Pic
Thanks Frank. Milford is a beautiful town by the way with a classic Main Street and some very nice architecture. Paul Paul On Jul 28, 2005, at 10:59 PM, frank theriault wrote: On 7/28/05, Paul Stenquist <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Here's another shot from the tri-five Chevy anniversary show of last weekend. This is from the cruise that followed the event. It's Main Street, Milford, Michigan. The car in the lead sports 600 supercharged horsepower. That's enough to make even one of these old "shoebox" Chevies move crisply. http://www.photo.net/photodb/photo?photo_id=3582841&size=lg Proving again that "there's no replacement for displacement"! In a straight line, would I want a slammed Civic or a blown Chevy? H... Let me think for a moment. As my younger friends would say, "That car is ~sick~!" (apparently that's a good thing - sort of like "bad" or "phat"...) That's a terrific photo, Paul. Not just for the way you captured the lead car (from the perfect angle - all muscle and bulges and power), but the line of Chevies behind it, even snaking around the corner and down the hill! That's so cool. There are lots of nice details in this one: the stop sign and red light (as if they're stopping ), the indigo hot rod on the left almost looks like it's stepping aside in deference to these classics, the lack of distracting bystanders, and the lovely trees. It's about as perfect as you could get this photo to be. Terrific! cheers, frank -- "Sharpness is a bourgeois concept." -Henri Cartier-Bresson
RE: PESO: Deliver or Die
I, too, rather like it for my own reasons, independent of its quality. Shel > [Original Message] > From: frank theriault < > http://www.photo.net/photodb/photo?photo_id=3579327&size=lg > > Now, after all that, I don't how good the photo actually is, but I > rather like it for my own reasons that may be independant of the > quality of the piece.
Re: PESO: Brand New Bike
On 7/28/05, Powell Hargrave <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > How many of us can remember this day? > > http://members.shaw.ca/hargravep/Image7.htm > Wow! That's a great photo, capturing a moment that many of us remember well. Learning to ride one's first "two-wheeler" is a milestone to be cherished and remembered forever - I know I remember mine. My dad (bless his heart) brought along his Yashica A 6x6 (except then they were called 2 1/4 by 2 1/4) tlr to record the event. I was three years old. My mom still has the pix. One day, I should see if I can find them. Who'd have thunk that I'd be making my living from riding a bike, this many years later. BTW, Powell, glad to see your son (I assume that's your son) is wearing a helmet. Whether it's the law or not, it's important to get them used to wearing them right off the bat. I wear mine all the time - I've got so few brain cells left, I have to protect those that are still around. A fun yet poignant photo. cheers, frank -- "Sharpness is a bourgeois concept." -Henri Cartier-Bresson
Re: Let's give Frank a nickname (was Re: PESO: NInja (Redux))
On 7/28/05, Butch Black <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > I think we should start a contest to give Frank a nickname. Keeping in mind > the nicknames of his friends (Pirate Jenny, Ninja, Porno) my suggestion > is. > > > .Walter Mitty Don't forget Tofu... I ~do~ live a rather vicarious lifestyle. You could have picked worse. cheers, frank -- "Sharpness is a bourgeois concept." -Henri Cartier-Bresson
Re: MZ-S
On 7/28/05, Gautam Sarup <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Hi Markus, > > Thank you. Which side of the world would your's be? Markus is Swiss. I'm from Canada. Would I be correct in guessing that you might be from somewhere on the Indian subcontinent? Gautam, there's no way that you can keep up with all the threads and posts; as you correctly surmised, that would be almost a full-time job in and of itself. Stick around (it's worth it, really) and you'll learn which threads to delete, which posts and posters you want to read, etc. Eventually, list-management becomes second nature.
Re: PESO: Another Chevy Show Pic
On 7/28/05, Paul Stenquist <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Here's another shot from the tri-five Chevy anniversary show of last > weekend. This is from the cruise that followed the event. It's Main > Street, Milford, Michigan. The car in the lead sports 600 supercharged > horsepower. That's enough to make even one of these old "shoebox" > Chevies move crisply. > http://www.photo.net/photodb/photo?photo_id=3582841&size=lg Proving again that "there's no replacement for displacement"! In a straight line, would I want a slammed Civic or a blown Chevy? H... Let me think for a moment. As my younger friends would say, "That car is ~sick~!" (apparently that's a good thing - sort of like "bad" or "phat"...) That's a terrific photo, Paul. Not just for the way you captured the lead car (from the perfect angle - all muscle and bulges and power), but the line of Chevies behind it, even snaking around the corner and down the hill! That's so cool. There are lots of nice details in this one: the stop sign and red light (as if they're stopping ), the indigo hot rod on the left almost looks like it's stepping aside in deference to these classics, the lack of distracting bystanders, and the lovely trees. It's about as perfect as you could get this photo to be. Terrific! cheers, frank -- "Sharpness is a bourgeois concept." -Henri Cartier-Bresson
PESO: Deliver or Die
I could be wrong, but that motto started among NYC messengers at least 15 years ago. At the recent CMWC (Cycle Messenger World Championships) in New York, this fellow had an accident several hundred yards from the finish line (I didn't see the accident, so I don't know if anyone else was involved or not); note the "tacoed" (as in "bent like a taco") front wheel. I was standing about 50 yards from the finish line, when I saw him running by. It was a one shot deal (not having motor drive or anything), so I was glad when I saw on the neg that I caught him mid-stride. IMHO, he sums up the spirit of competition that was evident at the event: It's not when or how you finish, it's that you finish. http://www.photo.net/photodb/photo?photo_id=3579327&size=lg Now, after all that, I don't how good the photo actually is, but I rather like it for my own reasons that may be independant of the quality of the piece. Comments are welcome. cheers, frank -- "Sharpness is a bourgeois concept." -Henri Cartier-Bresson
RE: MZ-S
Hi Markus, Thank you. Which side of the world would your's be? Gautam > -Original Message- > From: Markus Maurer [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: Thursday, July 28, 2005 3:20 AM > To: pentax-discuss@pdml.net > Subject: RE: MZ-S > > > Hi Gautam > I struggle reading all of the PDML and had to delete messages > when away for > several days. > Welcome from my side of the world too. > Markus > > > > >>No but looking at the amount of traffic I wonder > >>when you chaps manage to work. Or is posting to > >>PDML it? > >> > >>Gautam > >> > >
PESO: Another Chevy Show Pic
Here's another shot from the tri-five Chevy anniversary show of last weekend. This is from the cruise that followed the event. It's Main Street, Milford, Michigan. The car in the lead sports 600 supercharged horsepower. That's enough to make even one of these old "shoebox" Chevies move crisply. http://www.photo.net/photodb/photo?photo_id=3582841&size=lg
Re: Storing digital images (Was: RAW file processing)
On 28 Jul 2005 at 1:40, Rob Studdert wrote: > I've got a 1" multi-platter drive next to me with it's guts exposed at the > moment and it's got no such facility. I'll rip the top off a smaller dodgy > drive > tomorrow and see what I can find. I might even break out a macro lens :-) I just pulled the lid off a working drive that had media errors and to my surprise this drive doesn't just not retract the heads it doesn't even park them in the centre of the disk either. The unit is a Fujitsu (generally deemed as reliable) 3040AT (5/1998). It's plain to see in the pics that there are only connections to the heads on the actuator arm and that it's a rigid design. http://home.swiftdsl.com.au/~distudio/temp/IMGP2873.jpg (~200kB) http://home.swiftdsl.com.au/~distudio/temp/IMGP2874.jpg (~200kB) The drive pictured below is a deceased IBM SCSI server drive (DFHS), again media defects were its downfall. This one parks its heads but again there is no retraction mechanism. http://home.swiftdsl.com.au/~distudio/temp/IMGP2877.jpg (~200kB) http://home.swiftdsl.com.au/~distudio/temp/IMGP2878jpg (~200kB) So be gentle with your hard drives if you value your data particularly portable units. Cheers, Rob Studdert HURSTVILLE AUSTRALIA Tel +61-2-9554-4110 UTC(GMT) +10 Hours [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://members.ozemail.com.au/~distudio/publications/ Pentax user since 1986, PDMLer since 1998
RE: PAW PESO - Pigeons
Strange. This photo has got many positive comments. But me, I don't like it. Think it's because of the shadows in foreground. Generally I don't like shadows leaning towards me like this. They make my eyes slide down, out of the frame. Tim Mostly harmless (just plain Norwegian.) Never underestimate the power of stupidity in large crowds (Very freely after Arthur C. Clarke, or some other clever guy) -Original Message- From: Shel Belinkoff [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 23. juli 2005 16:47 To: pentax-discuss@pdml.net Subject: PAW PESO - Pigeons http://home.earthlink.net/~pdml-pics/pigeons.html K-body, K28/3.5, Fuji Reala ... Shel
RE: PAW PESO - Pigeons
Jack. Please don't take your pictures down so fast. I'm always behind on reading my posts ... Tim Mostly harmless (just plain Norwegian.) Never underestimate the power of stupidity in large crowds (Very freely after Arthur C. Clarke, or some other clever guy) -Original Message- From: Jack Davis [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 23. juli 2005 19:02 To: pentax-discuss@pdml.net Subject: Re: PAW PESO - Pigeons Hard for me to believe now, but I shot a roll at Gray Lodge WA a few years ago that I came scary close to trashing without processing. I couldn't recall any possibilities that might make it worth a basic processing cost. As you can anticipate, I had it processed and printed. Am putting up a frame from it. http://www.photolightimages.com/aspupload/detail.asp?ID=58 I could sorta see and hear the geese circling, but the in-&-out sun made my eyes water when I tried to include it in a shot of the goose silhouettes. With the focus on infinity, I set two stops of plus compensation, pointed the lens at the sun and shot a few frames. I "knew" I had wasted those frames as well as the rest of the roll. Maybe some of you feel I did. Opinions encouraged. Jack --- Shel Belinkoff <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Thanks Jack. I was going to trash it last > night, but decided, WTF, > I'll post it and see what happens. Glad you liked > it. The pic somehow > makes me think of a pigeon prison recreation yard, > with all the "boids" > hanging out before having to go back to their cells > (coops). > > Shel > > > > [Original Message] > > From: Jack Davis > > > Love it! Especially the pigeon line-up against the > > base if the back wall. I don't think the pigeon > > distribution could have been better. At least I > > couldn't have improved on it if given a chance to > > place them. > > Perspective of verticals in the iron railing add > the > > the needed element for a terrific shot. > > > > Jack > > > > --- Shel Belinkoff <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > wrote: > > > > > > http://home.earthlink.net/~pdml-pics/pigeons.html > > > > > > K-body, K28/3.5, Fuji Reala ... > > > > > > > > > Shel > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > __ > > Do You Yahoo!? > > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam > protection around > > http://mail.yahoo.com > > > Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs
Re: Stuff for sale
Darkroom: Beseler 45 MCX 4X5 enlarger with B&W Llamphouse and Dichro 45S lamphouse and a bunch of various neg carriers including 35 and 67 Negatrans carriers and several lens boards and a Minolta 75mm enlarging lens and a Beseler PM2 color analyzer- $350 pick up in S.F. Bay area. Medium Format: Fuji 645GS rangefinder w/ 60mm w.a. lens excellent condition $550. 35mm: Pentax ZX-M Exc. $90. Canonet 28 Exc w/battery $40. Canonet QLIII 1.7 Excellent + Condition w/battery $70. Books:: Leica Manual 1961, The Leica in Professional Practice 1954, and The Leica Way 1953 all for $25 plus shipping. Leica Manual 1973 $20 plus shiping. Bill Lawlor 415 454-6486
Re: Storing digital images (Was: RAW file processing)
On Jul 29, 2005, at 2:21 AM, Malcolm Smith wrote: If you look at auction houses - particularly those who liquidate businesses gone bust - some suitable fire/etc proof cabinets do occasionally come up at a small fraction of what they were new. Just be careful about fire-proof ratings. I've heard (in other words, this is not authoratative) that the rating applies to storage of paper-based material which can usually sustain pretty high temperatures before damage. I'm not sure how that applies to modern plastic banknotes though. Cheers, - Dave http://www.digistar.com/~dmann/
Re: PESO - Valley of the Gods
Thanks for the comments Tim. Sometimes it is difficult to come up with a good title. I did think about contrasts as you did. -- Best regards, Bruce Thursday, July 28, 2005, 5:58:57 PM, you wrote: TØ> I like to comment this even though I am a bit late. TØ> It is a wonderful shot. Colours, framing, control of DOF ... Everything TØ> works here. Unfortunately I believe you have already used the title TØ> "Contrasts", it would have suited this picture even better. TØ> Tim TØ> Mostly harmless (just plain Norwegian.) TØ> Never underestimate the power of stupidity in large crowds TØ> (Very freely after Arthur C. Clarke, or some other clever guy) TØ> -Original Message- TØ> From: Bruce Dayton [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] TØ> Sent: 23. juli 2005 02:08 TØ> To: pentax-discuss@pdml.net TØ> Subject: PESO - Valley of the Gods TØ> Down near Monument Valley is a place called Valley of the Gods. It is TØ> somewhat similar, but the formations are not quite as big and TØ> imposing. Our last day of the trip, we arose and drove over a small TØ> highway that leads to the top of the mesa. It overlooks the Valley of TØ> the Gods. The road switchbacks on the climb up the mesa. About TØ> halfway up we stopped to this view. TØ> Pentax *istD, A 28-135/4, handheld TØ> ISO 200, 1/250 sec @ f/13 TØ> Converted from Raw using Capture One LE TØ> http://www.daytonphoto.com/PAW/monumentvalley_0481.htm TØ> Comments welcome
RE: Paw: GFM Pic #11. IR #3.The final walk
I had the same feeling about the people. They don't seem to belong there.
Makes me think about ants, wandering around, apparently with no purpose. But
I think it is because of their rather strange positioning in the landscape,
it is not logical to walk outside the track like they do.
Tim
Mostly harmless (just plain Norwegian.)
Never underestimate the power of stupidity in large crowds
(Very freely after Arthur C. Clarke, or some other clever guy)
-Original Message-
From: frank theriault [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: 23. juli 2005 14:09
To: pentax-discuss@pdml.net
Subject: Re: Paw: GFM Pic #11. IR #3.The final walk
On 7/22/05, [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>Hey gang.
>
> IR photo number three. This is the swing bridge. I was trying to do two
things here. Get
> some decent
> light and not have people on it. One out of two ain't bad i suppose.
>
> Anyway. I looked at this shot a few times and its starting to grow on me.
Sort of looks
> like the
> final walk into oblivian.
>
>
http://photobucket.com/albums/v408/divad_b/?action=view¤t=GFM_BRIDGE.j
pg
>
> Anyway comments welcome,
>
Hmmm...
I see what you mean about the people. IR seems to make them too
bright, so they stand out too much maybe.
OTOH, repeated viewings bring sort of a surreality (is that a word?
it is now... ) to it. I get the feeling that these people are
somehow being drawn to the bridge, much as Richard Dreyfuss' character
in Close Encounters of the Third Kind was drawn to that Mesa to see
the UFOs. Or like the way Costner's character in Field of Dreams
~had~ to build that baseball field ("If you build it, they will
come...").
It's like they don't know ~why~ they have to go to the bridge, they just do.
I don't know why I get that feeling, but I know I wouldn't have gotten
it from a non-IR photo.
The rest of the stuff is pretty cool (no, very cool). Love the
composition and framing, and I ~love~ the way slope behind the bridge
just disappears into the mist. I think that's part of the
mysteriousness of the whole thing.
So, if you exhibit this, you've got to put up a sign to come back and
view it over and over, because it just gets better and better...
Geez, Dave, I really really like what you're doing with IR; some
really innovative and exciting stuff - way beyond the ordinary!
cheers,
frank
--
"Sharpness is a bourgeois concept." -Henri Cartier-Bresson
Re: A* 600 f5.6 on Ebay - won by warobb
Yep. It's pricier than I thought. Well, I'm glad a list member snagged it for a reasonably good price. Paul On Jul 28, 2005, at 7:07 PM, william sawyer wrote: Paul, B&H has it on their site, or at least did, at about $5700. I think list is $7700. I paid $2400 for mine two years ago through KEH. Bill Sawyer Livonia, MI -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, July 28, 2005 9:56 AM To: pentax-discuss@pdml.net Subject: Re: A* 600 f5.6 on Ebay - won by warobb Bill is indeed a Pentaxian saint. He's singlehandedly upping the market value of Pentax glass. Does anyone know what this lens sold for new? Angel Ramos discombobulated, unleashed He has become a Pentaxian saint now, after this major enablement. Wait and see until he get this Major Glass Beast. Hmm, which makes me think that he will look for the FA * 600 ( if he does not have it yet!) for pairing it with two nice bodies, and repeat the torture he comitted by sending the "I suck" mail, by taking a nice picture and show it to us to make us cry again just like his last Limited's picture. Robb You Suck! ;-) Angel Ramos Arecibo, Puerto Rico
RE: PESO - Valley of the Gods
I like to comment this even though I am a bit late. It is a wonderful shot. Colours, framing, control of DOF ... Everything works here. Unfortunately I believe you have already used the title "Contrasts", it would have suited this picture even better. Tim Mostly harmless (just plain Norwegian.) Never underestimate the power of stupidity in large crowds (Very freely after Arthur C. Clarke, or some other clever guy) -Original Message- From: Bruce Dayton [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 23. juli 2005 02:08 To: pentax-discuss@pdml.net Subject: PESO - Valley of the Gods Down near Monument Valley is a place called Valley of the Gods. It is somewhat similar, but the formations are not quite as big and imposing. Our last day of the trip, we arose and drove over a small highway that leads to the top of the mesa. It overlooks the Valley of the Gods. The road switchbacks on the climb up the mesa. About halfway up we stopped to this view. Pentax *istD, A 28-135/4, handheld ISO 200, 1/250 sec @ f/13 Converted from Raw using Capture One LE http://www.daytonphoto.com/PAW/monumentvalley_0481.htm Comments welcome -- Bruce
Re: OT: Digital Camcorder Recommendation?
Thanks to all who responded to this thread. Based on what everyone here said and what I've found on line, I think I'll go for the Sony DCR-HC90. It's a mini DV model with a 3.3 megapixel CCED of 1/3 inch dimension. It also has good low light capability, which is important to me. Paul On Jul 28, 2005, at 4:40 PM, Feroze wrote: If you have a lot of old Hi-8 cassettes lying around an option would be the Digital-8, cassettes aren't as expensive as the DV's as you use Hi-8's except you get less time on it. Not a bad option for something that gives you up to 500 lines of horizontal resolution. I've only used sony camcorders, but I recommend them without reservation. Feroze Paul Stenquist wrote: I need a camcorder. My old Sharp VHS camera doesn't work any more, and I'm going to have to get some footage of grandchildren. I see there are DVD cameras and mini DV cameras. Are these state of the art. Which is better? What brand? Which model? Help! Paul
Re: PESO: emily and a new *istDS
Great shot, Derby. I love it. A very unique portrait. Paul On Jul 28, 2005, at 5:22 PM, Derby Chang wrote: Haven't posted a PESO for a while, haven't had time to take many pics. Snapshots can still be art(ful), I say. Story: miss my last job because of the fun 'after-hours' social sessions. Ex-workmate decided to part ways with that company recently. The farewell was at a local Japanese restaurant, where much saki was demolished. Like me, his present to himself on leaving was an *istDS. Emily here is pictured playing with the new toy. My old toy is wearing a K50/1.2, miraculously in focus after some number of sakis. And since I was shooting wide open, bonus, had it on P and didn't have to remember to press the AE button. http://members.iinet.net.au/~derbyc/PDML_misc/emily.htm -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://members.iinet.net.au/~derbyc
Re: A Visit to Adobe
On Jul 27, 2005, at 11:44 PM, Shel Belinkoff wrote: Maybe a few of you would like to see the Adobe offices and "meet" a few of the engineers and designers. http://photoshopnews.com/feature-stories/a-visit-to-adobe/ I worked with the folks at Adobe many times when I worked for Apple ... this is familiar ground. I see from the photos that several of my old Apple friends and colleagues are now on the Photoshop team. :-) Godfrey
Re: reflective flash metering with spot meter
On Jul 27, 2005, at 3:56 PM, Kevin Waterson wrote: Oh, I have flash meters, that is not the problem. These did not always exist though. I was watching a documentary(sp) where all this chappy seemed to use was a Pentax spot meter, similar to mine to take a reflective reading from the background... the doco was not on photography, I was simply pondering how an acurate reading could be taken with an analog spot meter for a background exposure I must of missed something in there. What came first, the flash meters or the spot meters? I guess I don't understand the situation. You could meter the background reflectivity and judge flash fill/ reflectance with a spot meter, if you know your setups well enough. But it almost seems more work then just learning how to judge that by eye. Godfrey
Re: Storing digital images (Was: RAW file processing)
On Jul 28, 2005, at 5:59 AM, Malcolm Smith wrote: ... Yet I know my slides from the early 70s are OK. What I want is digital flexibility and film storage certainties. ... I've lost far more of film photographs then I have of digital photographs through deterioration/failure of the media. Matter of fact, I've retrieved more of my old film photographs through use of digital means than I ever could through reprinting the now long- departed or damaged negatives/slides. I think the "certainties" you speak of are far from reality. Godfrey
Re: PAW PESO - Shine Stand
Wow! I like it a lot, really nice tonality, composition, facial expression. The only thing I find is it looks a bit like a gentlemen cloths ad, a la Yves Saint Laurent. You know, it rocks, but doesn't look "documentary". I hope you don't get me wrong. Regards Albano --- Shel Belinkoff <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > This is the second in a series of photos I will be > putting up documenting a > few minutes in the day of three gentlemen who ran a > shoe shine stand in San > Francisco. The first went up some time ago. > > I hope this looks OK as I'm limping along on an > uncalibrated, older monitor. > > Details: Spottie, Super Tak 50/1.4, Tri-X, D-76 > > http://home.earthlink.net/~pdml-pics/shine2.html > > > Shel > > > Albano Garcia Photography & Graphic Design http://www.albanogarcia.com.ar http://www.flaneur.albanogarcia.com.ar Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs
Re: PESO - Pairs
Hello Herb, I'm listening...Can you tell me some of the ways in which you can make money? Mostly stock, or are there other venues as well? Certainly was enjoyable on this last trip - it was really geared for photos rather than just site seeing with some grabs. -- Best regards, Bruce Thursday, July 28, 2005, 4:06:38 PM, you wrote: HC> you know, Bruce, you might not be able to make as much money as a landscape HC> and nature photographer, but the hours are easier and there's a lot less HC> stress. HC> Herb HC> - Original Message - HC> From: "Bruce Dayton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> HC> To: HC> Sent: Thursday, July 28, 2005 12:16 PM HC> Subject: PESO - Pairs >> Taken in Monument Valley of some of the vegetation. Due to the >> unusually wet spring, I suspect that there were more greenery and >> flowers than would be normal in the valley. >> >> Pentax *istD, A 70-210/4, handheld >> ISO 200, 1/1000 sec @ f/5.6 >> Converted from Raw using Capture One LE >> >> http://www.daytonphoto.com/PAW/monumentvalley_0508.htm >>
RE: Have digital cameras made us better photographers?
I understand. Now I wonder, being a candidate for Marks Christmas treat, is that good or is it bad??? ;-) Tim Mostly harmless (just plain Norwegian.) Never underestimate the power of stupidity in large crowds (Very freely after Arthur C. Clarke, or some other clever guy) -Original Message- From: Cotty [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 29. juli 2005 01:04 To: pentax list Subject: Re: Have digital cameras made us better photographers? On 28/7/05, Tim Øsleby, discombobulated, unleashed: >Since you responded to my post, could you please fill me in? ;-) >I don't get this. Is this some kind of internal joke (referring to some Mark >at this list), or what? >You are a man of few words (sometimes hard to understand for a plain >Norwegian). Mark Roberts collects quotes from the list each year and publishes them as a Christmas treat. I'm merely one of his little elves helpfully pointing out some candidates :-) Cheers, Cotty ___/\__ || (O) | People, Places, Pastiche ||=|http://www.cottysnaps.com _
Re: Totally, completely OT but too good to pass up
Hilarious! having been in retail once, and also having taught computer subjects, it rang a lot of bells for me. Apocryphal computer training story: Trainer: "Now press any key." Trainee, after five minutes of searching the keyboard: "I can't find the any key". Arrgh! John Coyle Brisbane, Australia - Original Message - From: "Mark Roberts" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Wednesday, July 27, 2005 11:55 PM Subject: Totally, completely OT but too good to pass up Acts of Gord http://www.actsofgord.com/index.html Don't go there unless you have some time to spare... -- Mark Roberts Photography and writing www.robertstech.com
Re: Have digital cameras made us better photographers?
you know, like Little John. Herb - Original Message - From: "P. J. Alling" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Thursday, July 28, 2005 7:15 PM Subject: Re: Have digital cameras made us better photographers? Little???
Let's give Frank a nickname (was Re: PESO: NInja (Redux))
frank theriault wrote: As far as nicknames, no I don't have one. Rabbit. Tom Reese I think we should start a contest to give Frank a nickname. Keeping in mind the nicknames of his friends (Pirate Jenny, Ninja, Porno) my suggestion is. .Walter Mitty Butch in GD&R mode
RE: Have digital cameras made us better photographers?
Bill. Now I think do understand better your feelings about digital. You used to spend a lot of time in the lab. Thats a lot of work, under poor working conditions. I have processed some films, so I know that. But mostly I shoot slides, and did not process them myself. I framed them yes, but I used simple CS frames, and the bin took care of the bad shot, directly. For me digital is different. At least now in the beginner face. I spend more time looking at the bad shoots before binning them. I also spend a lot of time converting, trying to tweak the most out of them. So for me, most of the shots represent work after shooting. And that gives me a completely different perspective. For some reason this makes me think of fishing. Some fishers takes care of the fish after fishing, others leaves that part to the wife. I would say that only the first category is real fishers. Apparently this is totally OT. But if its true, then digital has turned me into a real photographer ;-) Tim Mostly harmless (just plain Norwegian.) Never underestimate the power of stupidity in large crowds (Very freely after Arthur C. Clarke, or some other clever guy) -Original Message- From: William Robb [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 29. juli 2005 00:45 To: pentax-discuss@pdml.net Subject: Re: Have digital cameras made us better photographers? - Original Message - From: "Tim Øsleby" Subject: RE: Have digital cameras made us better photographers? > Bill. > Reading your post I find myself thinking that what you basically are > saying, > is that you have become a lazy photographer. Lazy photographer as in - "a > photographer who shoots wildly, and has stopped reflecting". Am I right > about this? If not, please do ignore this friendly intended post. Only with the digital, but yes. I don't really bother to differentiate much between worthwhile and otherwise with the digital. I figure I got it in my sights, I may as well shoot at it. Well exposed, questionably composed dreck. BTW, has anyone found that since they pretty much stopped shooting film, they have more funds available for gear? Thats a benefit. But I digress. > > Between the lines I also read that you blame your new digital tools. If my > interpretation of your statements are correct, then let me freely (not to > freely I hope) say that you have got it totally wrong. For the past two years, I have shot pretty much entirely digital. I shot a few rolls of 35mm chrome last September, a few rolls of print film because I needed some wide angle stuff, and one roll on the 6x7, of a large family group. And some 9000 digital exposures. With film, I don't think I have ever shot much more than a thousand exposures a year for myself, most of it large format B&W, or 6x7 B&W, and a smattering of other stuff, either slide or print in whatever 35mm camera was at hand. Film demands a time investment from me. It's not something I drop off at the lab. For that reason, I watch what I shoot, when I shoot film. With no time commitment after the fact, there is no constraint on not shooting the picture. I am there, it's in my sights, why not? But it's not good photography, for sure. > > Photography is craftsmanship, and sometimes (a tiny bit of) art. And a > craftsman needs to keep his tools sharp. > > As a photographer, digital or not, you have a set of tools. One of the > tools > is the camera. The camera is (if it manual), a simple recorder. In other > words, it is memory, no more, no less. Whether it is digital or film does > not matter. It still is memory. If it's automatic, it is also a meter > (like > a carpenters meter), and a calculator. Nothing more, nothing less. Theres where you and I don't agree. Film and memory is different. Film requires a bigger commitment of time for me, since I am my own lab. This changes how I feel about the medium. I can pull the trigger or not. There are no consequences, one way or the other. The shutter clicks, the image is captured, made into a prisoner, or worse, is "saved" as an ephemeral non thing, it's salvation often leading to it's own destruction, when it is summarily executed for being in some way corrupt, not worthy of being saved. > > But the main tool is you, Now you are calling me names (hi from WW). To me it looks like you have become obsessed with the > least important parts of your equipment, the stuff, "your enablement's", > your Limited, your LX, your D, your Lditt, your MZdatt. You're probably right, but it's something to do with my photo hobby budget while I'm not spending gobs of money on film and paper. > > Back to the carpenter: Imagine him saying > "I've given this some thought over the past couple of days, and honestly, > I > think the Stanley Digital Laser-Meter has, if anything, made me a worse > carpenter". > What would your reactions be? Do you really think his brand new beeping > meter was to blame? It might well be. Sometimes these gizmos aren't all they are cranked u
Re: Have digital cameras made us better photographers?
Little??? Cotty wrote: On 28/7/05, Tim Øsleby, discombobulated, unleashed: Since you responded to my post, could you please fill me in? ;-) I don't get this. Is this some kind of internal joke (referring to some Mark at this list), or what? You are a man of few words (sometimes hard to understand for a plain Norwegian). Mark Roberts collects quotes from the list each year and publishes them as a Christmas treat. I'm merely one of his little elves helpfully pointing out some candidates :-) Cheers, Cotty ___/\__ || (O) | People, Places, Pastiche ||=|http://www.cottysnaps.com _ -- When you're worried or in doubt, Run in circles, (scream and shout).
RE: A* 600 f5.6 on Ebay - won by warobb
Paul, B&H has it on their site, or at least did, at about $5700. I think list is $7700. I paid $2400 for mine two years ago through KEH. Bill Sawyer Livonia, MI -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, July 28, 2005 9:56 AM To: pentax-discuss@pdml.net Subject: Re: A* 600 f5.6 on Ebay - won by warobb Bill is indeed a Pentaxian saint. He's singlehandedly upping the market value of Pentax glass. Does anyone know what this lens sold for new? > Angel Ramos discombobulated, unleashed > > He has become a Pentaxian saint now, after this major enablement. Wait > and see until he get this Major Glass Beast. Hmm, which makes me think > that he will look for the FA * 600 ( if he does not have it yet!) for > pairing it with two nice bodies, and repeat the torture he comitted by > sending the "I suck" mail, by taking a nice picture and show it to us > to make us cry again just like his last Limited's picture. Robb You > Suck! ;-) > > Angel Ramos > Arecibo, Puerto Rico > > > >
Re: PESO - Pairs
you know, Bruce, you might not be able to make as much money as a landscape and nature photographer, but the hours are easier and there's a lot less stress. Herb - Original Message - From: "Bruce Dayton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Thursday, July 28, 2005 12:16 PM Subject: PESO - Pairs Taken in Monument Valley of some of the vegetation. Due to the unusually wet spring, I suspect that there were more greenery and flowers than would be normal in the valley. Pentax *istD, A 70-210/4, handheld ISO 200, 1/1000 sec @ f/5.6 Converted from Raw using Capture One LE http://www.daytonphoto.com/PAW/monumentvalley_0508.htm
Re: Storing digital images (Was: RAW file processing)
one of JFK's photographer's estate lost his entire archive because they were stored in a World Trade Center vault. the only thing left are the contact sheets because they were sent to a friend. Herb - Original Message - From: "Rick Womer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Thursday, July 28, 2005 9:54 AM Subject: RE: Storing digital images (Was: RAW file processing) The only certainty involved with film is that you will be able to view the image, somehow. What makes me nervous about film is that I have about 10,000 slides in a closet. A burst pipe or a fire and they're gone, with no backups.
Re: Have digital cameras made us better photographers?
On 28/7/05, Tim Øsleby, discombobulated, unleashed: >Since you responded to my post, could you please fill me in? ;-) >I don't get this. Is this some kind of internal joke (referring to some Mark >at this list), or what? >You are a man of few words (sometimes hard to understand for a plain >Norwegian). Mark Roberts collects quotes from the list each year and publishes them as a Christmas treat. I'm merely one of his little elves helpfully pointing out some candidates :-) Cheers, Cotty ___/\__ || (O) | People, Places, Pastiche ||=|http://www.cottysnaps.com _
Re: Storing digital images (Was: RAW file processing)
i have three 100% identical copies of my digital images at almost all times and at physically disparate locations. i have one copy of my film images plus scans of the most important ones. those scans are triplicated since they are on the same media as the rest of my digital images. my slides from the '70's, although properly stored, are slowly gathering dust and other things. after 50 years, even in ideal conditions, the colors will be shifting because the dyes are fading. i see my entire collection of digital images having a much higher probability of being usable 100 years from now than any film image. if they are usable at all, they will be 100% as fresh as the day i took them. i don't need any special viewer for my slides, but i need one for my digital images. Herb - Original Message - From: "Malcolm Smith" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Thursday, July 28, 2005 8:59 AM Subject: RE: Storing digital images (Was: RAW file processing) Yet I know my slides from the early 70s are OK. What I want is digital flexibility and film storage certainties. All this proves is that a photographer can have it all and, darn it, it's still not enough!!
Re: Have digital cameras made us better photographers?
- Original Message - From: "Tim Øsleby" Subject: RE: Have digital cameras made us better photographers? Bill. Reading your post I find myself thinking that what you basically are saying, is that you have become a lazy photographer. Lazy photographer as in - "a photographer who shoots wildly, and has stopped reflecting". Am I right about this? If not, please do ignore this friendly intended post. Only with the digital, but yes. I don't really bother to differentiate much between worthwhile and otherwise with the digital. I figure I got it in my sights, I may as well shoot at it. Well exposed, questionably composed dreck. BTW, has anyone found that since they pretty much stopped shooting film, they have more funds available for gear? Thats a benefit. But I digress. Between the lines I also read that you blame your new digital tools. If my interpretation of your statements are correct, then let me freely (not to freely I hope) say that you have got it totally wrong. For the past two years, I have shot pretty much entirely digital. I shot a few rolls of 35mm chrome last September, a few rolls of print film because I needed some wide angle stuff, and one roll on the 6x7, of a large family group. And some 9000 digital exposures. With film, I don't think I have ever shot much more than a thousand exposures a year for myself, most of it large format B&W, or 6x7 B&W, and a smattering of other stuff, either slide or print in whatever 35mm camera was at hand. Film demands a time investment from me. It's not something I drop off at the lab. For that reason, I watch what I shoot, when I shoot film. With no time commitment after the fact, there is no constraint on not shooting the picture. I am there, it's in my sights, why not? But it's not good photography, for sure. Photography is craftsmanship, and sometimes (a tiny bit of) art. And a craftsman needs to keep his tools sharp. As a photographer, digital or not, you have a set of tools. One of the tools is the camera. The camera is (if it manual), a simple recorder. In other words, it is memory, no more, no less. Whether it is digital or film does not matter. It still is memory. If it's automatic, it is also a meter (like a carpenters meter), and a calculator. Nothing more, nothing less. Theres where you and I don't agree. Film and memory is different. Film requires a bigger commitment of time for me, since I am my own lab. This changes how I feel about the medium. I can pull the trigger or not. There are no consequences, one way or the other. The shutter clicks, the image is captured, made into a prisoner, or worse, is "saved" as an ephemeral non thing, it's salvation often leading to it's own destruction, when it is summarily executed for being in some way corrupt, not worthy of being saved. But the main tool is you, Now you are calling me names (hi from WW). To me it looks like you have become obsessed with the least important parts of your equipment, the stuff, "your enablement's", your Limited, your LX, your D, your Lditt, your MZdatt. You're probably right, but it's something to do with my photo hobby budget while I'm not spending gobs of money on film and paper. Back to the carpenter: Imagine him saying "I've given this some thought over the past couple of days, and honestly, I think the Stanley Digital Laser-Meter has, if anything, made me a worse carpenter". What would your reactions be? Do you really think his brand new beeping meter was to blame? It might well be. Sometimes these gizmos aren't all they are cranked up to be. William Robb
Re: K15mm for House Interiors
i did that when i had one, and found no difference whatsoever. i wold be curious to see your results. best, mishka On 7/28/05, Chris Stoddart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > I think I am going to run a damn test this w/e with and without the > filter. I should have done that in the first place, eh? > > Chris > >
RE: PESO Picnic
Hi Scott ... Just what, exactly, don't you like about the photo? How does the slide look projected or viewed on a light table? Is this a scan directly from the slide? If so, what scanner did you use? How much of what you dislike may have been a result of the lens, how much the film (I've heard it said that Sensia tends towards a soft, less sharp image - never tried it m'self), how much the processing, and how much the post processing? Shel > [Original Message] > From: Scott Loveless > > This photo was taken a little over a month ago at Cowan's Gap State > Park near Ft. Loudon, PA. This is from my first ever roll of chrome. > Sensia 400, *ist, and the infamous FA28-90/3.5-5.6. I've heard others > voice rather negative opinions about this lens before, but I never > really noticed just how bad it is until I got my slides back from the > processor. > > http://twosixteen.com/gallery/index.php?id=132 > > I have since started shooting Sensia 100 with prime lenses and am > looking forward to getting those back to do a little comparison.
Re: PESOs - Greece in Alaska
Hmmm... :0 It was an interesting place and it's very very hard, at least where we went, to not find photo worthy subjects. Thanks. Tom C. From: Bruce Dayton <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Reply-To: pentax-discuss@pdml.net To: Tom C Subject: Re: PESOs - Greece in Alaska Date: Thu, 28 Jul 2005 13:59:31 -0700 Hello Tom, I actually ike the context shot the best. The scenery looks amazing there. Thanks for sharing this - an Alaska trip is on my to do list. -- Best regards, Bruce Thursday, July 28, 2005, 12:50:49 PM, you wrote: TC> From the recent Alaska trip. This was on the road between Anchorage and TC> Denali National Park. TC> http://www.photo.net/photodb/photo?photo_id=3581908 TC> http://www.photo.net/photodb/photo?photo_id=3581909 TC> And to add a little context to the above shots: TC> http://www.photo.net/photodb/photo?photo_id=3581910 TC> Tom C.
Re: Cleaning Pentax-F lenses?
- Original Message - From: "Powell Hargrave" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Thursday, July 28, 2005 7:25 PM Subject: Re: Cleaning Pentax-F lenses? This may help: http://members.shaw.ca/hargravep/70-210.htm Powell Aghh!! - many thanks for that link!, I think I'll give it a miss, though (I especially liked the part about heating up the fixing screws to 450 degrees!) *Please* tell me that people have success with tins of compressed air!
RE: Have digital cameras made us better photographers?
Cotty. Since you responded to my post, could you please fill me in? ;-) I don't get this. Is this some kind of internal joke (referring to some Mark at this list), or what? You are a man of few words (sometimes hard to understand for a plain Norwegian). Tim Mostly harmless (just plain Norwegian.) Never underestimate the power of stupidity in large crowds (Very freely after Arthur C. Clarke, or some other clever guy) -Original Message- From: Cotty [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 28. juli 2005 23:02 To: pentax list Subject: Re: Have digital cameras made us better photographers? On 28/7/05, Tim Øsleby, discombobulated, unleashed: >(If you gets bored reading this, simply jump directly to the last paragraph, >or do something else) Mark! Cheers, Cotty ___/\__ || (O) | People, Places, Pastiche ||=|http://www.cottysnaps.com _
RE: Have digital cameras made us better photographers?
> As you have alluded to, that's mostly up to the person behind the >viewfinder. > Yep Tim Mostly harmless (just plain Norwegian.) Never underestimate the power of stupidity in large crowds (Very freely after Arthur C. Clarke, or some other clever guy) -Original Message- From: Tom C [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 28. juli 2005 22:54 To: pentax-discuss@pdml.net Subject: RE: Have digital cameras made us better photographers? Interesting analysis. I agree mostly with the concepts but don't I believe there's enough cause/effect relationship to say that a digital camera makes one a better photographer. I would say the answer to the question is still 'No'. As you have alluded to, that's mostly up to the person behind the viewfinder. I do believe that, even if one does not learn how to 'see' better, it allows the opportunity to correct a flaw noticed on the instant review and either make the correction or alter the perspective or composition. Does that constitute being a 'better photographer'? It may be true if applying a quantitative definition, but not necesarially a qualitative one. Even a person that takes blase photographs, say a real estate agent, can use the camera in this manner to achieve a better success rate, but did it make them a better photographer? Tom C. >From: Tim Øsleby <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >Reply-To: pentax-discuss@pdml.net >To: >Subject: RE: Have digital cameras made us better photographers? >Date: Thu, 28 Jul 2005 22:28:20 +0200 > >Despite of what I've said earlier, about the camera being just a recorder, >not a very significant part of the photographic tools, I do believe the >answer to the title question is yes, a simple yes. Going digital has >improved my skill a lot. > > >For me digital photo allows me to shoot a lot, without thinking of the >costs. But it doesnt mean that I shoot faster, and stop analysing. > >What I've said before is nothing more than what others have stated before >me >in this thread. Give me a moment or two, to substantiate my thesis from a >more professional (pedagogical) point of view. (I am a trained social >worker, with pedagogic processes as one of my specialities). My arguments >are based in behaviouristic psychological theory. > > >One very important factor is the INSTANT FEEDBACK digital photo allows. > > >Guess you have already picked up my point here (if you havent, then I have >been a lousy teacher). Regarding the technical aspect the digital camera >gives me instant feedback. Every time I push the button, it gives me a >picture (as long as I have remembered to remove the lens cap). Most times >the picture looks ok at first glance. If I'm not so sure about the >technical >quality, I simply push the info button. Viola, a histogram! I can push it >one more time to remind me how I got this picture on screen. > >When done I can push the info button one more time, evaluating the content >of the picture. I can see if the picture on screen is the same as the one I >had inside my head when pushing the release button. Some times they >actually >do match. That makes me feel like a king. That makes me eager to go on. >Most >times they don't match. I see something in the background that I didnt see >in the first place. Or something else is wrong. Ok, then I tries one more >time. Perhaps I move one step to the right, or perhaps I open the aperture >to make the background out of focus. You have already got the idea. >The first part of this process trains my technical skills. The last part >trains my eye and stimulates my mind (my most important photographic >tools). > > >Gradually, as I get better, the success rate increases. And from my >experience it already has done that. A lot. > >The importance of rapid feedback when learning is well known among most >behaviourists. We learn by getting feedback on the things we do. And the >feedback has more impact when it comes directly/instantly. Let me try to >explain why. If your brain has been occupied with other things while >waiting >for the feedback, then it is harder to connect your previous actions with >the feedback (the result of your action). > > >Tim >Mostly harmless (just plain Norwegian.) >
PESO: emily and a new *istDS
Haven't posted a PESO for a while, haven't had time to take many pics. Snapshots can still be art(ful), I say. Story: miss my last job because of the fun 'after-hours' social sessions. Ex-workmate decided to part ways with that company recently. The farewell was at a local Japanese restaurant, where much saki was demolished. Like me, his present to himself on leaving was an *istDS. Emily here is pictured playing with the new toy. My old toy is wearing a K50/1.2, miraculously in focus after some number of sakis. And since I was shooting wide open, bonus, had it on P and didn't have to remember to press the AE button. http://members.iinet.net.au/~derbyc/PDML_misc/emily.htm -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://members.iinet.net.au/~derbyc
Re: Have digital cameras made us better photographers?
On 28/7/05, Tim Øsleby, discombobulated, unleashed: >(If you gets bored reading this, simply jump directly to the last paragraph, >or do something else) Mark! Cheers, Cotty ___/\__ || (O) | People, Places, Pastiche ||=|http://www.cottysnaps.com _
Re: PESOs - Greece in Alaska
Hello Tom, I actually ike the context shot the best. The scenery looks amazing there. Thanks for sharing this - an Alaska trip is on my to do list. -- Best regards, Bruce Thursday, July 28, 2005, 12:50:49 PM, you wrote: TC> From the recent Alaska trip. This was on the road between Anchorage and TC> Denali National Park. TC> http://www.photo.net/photodb/photo?photo_id=3581908 TC> http://www.photo.net/photodb/photo?photo_id=3581909 TC> And to add a little context to the above shots: TC> http://www.photo.net/photodb/photo?photo_id=3581910 TC> Tom C.
RE: Have digital cameras made us better photographers?
Interesting analysis. I agree mostly with the concepts but don't I believe there's enough cause/effect relationship to say that a digital camera makes one a better photographer. I would say the answer to the question is still 'No'. As you have alluded to, that's mostly up to the person behind the viewfinder. I do believe that, even if one does not learn how to 'see' better, it allows the opportunity to correct a flaw noticed on the instant review and either make the correction or alter the perspective or composition. Does that constitute being a 'better photographer'? It may be true if applying a quantitative definition, but not necesarially a qualitative one. Even a person that takes blase photographs, say a real estate agent, can use the camera in this manner to achieve a better success rate, but did it make them a better photographer? Tom C. From: Tim Øsleby <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Reply-To: pentax-discuss@pdml.net To: Subject: RE: Have digital cameras made us better photographers? Date: Thu, 28 Jul 2005 22:28:20 +0200 Despite of what I've said earlier, about the camera being just a recorder, not a very significant part of the photographic tools, I do believe the answer to the title question is yes, a simple yes. Going digital has improved my skill a lot. For me digital photo allows me to shoot a lot, without thinking of the costs. But it doesnt mean that I shoot faster, and stop analysing. What I've said before is nothing more than what others have stated before me in this thread. Give me a moment or two, to substantiate my thesis from a more professional (pedagogical) point of view. (I am a trained social worker, with pedagogic processes as one of my specialities). My arguments are based in behaviouristic psychological theory. One very important factor is the INSTANT FEEDBACK digital photo allows. Guess you have already picked up my point here (if you havent, then I have been a lousy teacher). Regarding the technical aspect the digital camera gives me instant feedback. Every time I push the button, it gives me a picture (as long as I have remembered to remove the lens cap). Most times the picture looks ok at first glance. If I'm not so sure about the technical quality, I simply push the info button. Viola, a histogram! I can push it one more time to remind me how I got this picture on screen. When done I can push the info button one more time, evaluating the content of the picture. I can see if the picture on screen is the same as the one I had inside my head when pushing the release button. Some times they actually do match. That makes me feel like a king. That makes me eager to go on. Most times they don't match. I see something in the background that I didnt see in the first place. Or something else is wrong. Ok, then I tries one more time. Perhaps I move one step to the right, or perhaps I open the aperture to make the background out of focus. You have already got the idea. The first part of this process trains my technical skills. The last part trains my eye and stimulates my mind (my most important photographic tools). Gradually, as I get better, the success rate increases. And from my experience it already has done that. A lot. The importance of rapid feedback when learning is well known among most behaviourists. We learn by getting feedback on the things we do. And the feedback has more impact when it comes directly/instantly. Let me try to explain why. If your brain has been occupied with other things while waiting for the feedback, then it is harder to connect your previous actions with the feedback (the result of your action). Tim Mostly harmless (just plain Norwegian.)
on the road again aka "I'll be everywhere, man, I'll be everywhere"
I haven't even really been here - got a glimpse of a couple of Peso's and see that one W Robb won the 600 - I hope it gets to him before I do (aug 10) maybe he will let me take a few shots with it. So here is the news of the day - I head out on Sunday with a 2 month greyhound bus pass to visit and impose upon friends and family all across the USA and Canada - including an overnight chez Paul Stenquist next week and 2 nights chez Robb. Hope to connect with Bay Area folk at some point. I will have only 2 nights alone on the road where i will have to shell out for a motel - HOpe, BC and Weed, CA - Weed, Ca just being a kind of pleasant mid-point between Portland and Reno, where I need to be by the 19th of August for the National Scrabble Championship - I'll be staying there for about 8 to 10 days with friends that live in Sparks. I'll be off list for those two months but will probably send a story or two in via list folk I'll be meeting up with along the way. News of the day, though, is that in mid August the letters of poet JAmes Wright will be published by Farrar, straus & Giroux and 2 of those letters are to me. For those of you not inclined to know American poets, Jim won the PUlitzer back in 72 and his son Franz won it last year. Jim died in 1980 - he was a good friend and his widow remains so. I sold my entire correspondance with him (well, I kept 4 postcards and a few notes) to finance this trip. On the Scrabble scene, WORD WARS got nominated for a EMMY! This is under the documentary section, of course. And on the here I am in the theatre again, kind of, on of the Scrabblers who is also a playright, is having those of us with some background in theatre do a reading of his play in Reno one night so he can listen to it. Because it is a reading I get to play a 30 year old British sculptor and my lover is being read by WORD WARS director/producer ERic Chaikin - who is a little more age appropriate for his role. Should be fun! ON the photo scene, a museum curator looked at my book at the flea market a couple of weeks ago and asked me to contact her in the fall more than that I don't want to say - could be nothing could be great. I tried to see the LEE FRIEDLANDER show at the met but couldnt hack the crowds so stood in the bookstore and looked at all the stuff in the book -- GREAT stuff - I love him... So now I'm off to Scrabble club - will stay on list and hopefully actually get to read a bit of it before I leave on Sunday afternoon and get off list, but I'm still buried under last minute chores. Oh yeah, and in Sept I'll be in Chicago at my 50th high school reunion if any of you lot live in Chicago proper and could put me up for 2 nights I would be very grateful... my friend who I am staying with for all but those 2 nights lives near Waukegan. annsan the travelin' fool
Re: Cleaning Pentax-F lenses?
I'll send you my broken one for practice :) CW - Original Message - From: "John EW" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Thursday, July 28, 2005 9:29 AM Subject: Cleaning Pentax-F lenses? Hi, I've just received a Pentax-F 35-135 smc from Ebay that seems to have quite a bit of internal dust. Is it difficult to dismantle these lenses for cleaning? - and, perhaps more to the point, is it difficult to get them back together properly?! Any other less drastic suggestions for shifting dust on internal elements? - I've considered using compresed air - is this viable? TIA -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.338 / Virus Database: 267.9.6/59 - Release Date: 7/27/2005
Re: OT: Digital Camcorder Recommendation?
If you have a lot of old Hi-8 cassettes lying around an option would be the Digital-8, cassettes aren't as expensive as the DV's as you use Hi-8's except you get less time on it. Not a bad option for something that gives you up to 500 lines of horizontal resolution. I've only used sony camcorders, but I recommend them without reservation. Feroze Paul Stenquist wrote: I need a camcorder. My old Sharp VHS camera doesn't work any more, and I'm going to have to get some footage of grandchildren. I see there are DVD cameras and mini DV cameras. Are these state of the art. Which is better? What brand? Which model? Help! Paul
RE: Have digital cameras made us better photographers?
Despite of what I've said earlier, about the camera being just a recorder, not a very significant part of the photographic tools, I do believe the answer to the title question is yes, a simple yes. Going digital has improved my skill a lot. I am working hard on this, and for the hard working student I believe digital photo is a better way of learning. On the other hand, I am not so sure about P&S photographers. Going bazooka with the P&S without putting any real effort into it prevents you from thinking, from analysing the process and the result. For me digital photo allows me to shoot a lot, without thinking of the costs. But it doesnt mean that I shoot faster, and stop analysing. What I've said before is nothing more than what others have stated before me in this thread. Give me a moment or two, to substantiate my thesis from a more professional (pedagogical) point of view. (I am a trained social worker, with pedagogic processes as one of my specialities). My arguments are based in behaviouristic psychological theory. One very important factor is the INSTANT FEEDBACK digital photo allows. (If you gets bored reading this, simply jump directly to the last paragraph, or do something else) Still reading? Ok. Let me give you an example illustrating the importance of instant feedback: Some of you may have heard about "computer assisted learning". The most known example of this concept is learning mathematics assisted by a computer program. This is widely used in school, training slow learners. Basically they work like this: The computer presents a task for the student. The student suggests a solution, and then the program responds. Right or wrong. Properly used those programs are a great success. Why? If you look closely for an answer you will find two things most of these programs have in common. 1. They are pretty crappy ;-) 2. They give instant feedback to the user. There is little doubt about that the speed is the main success factor. The best of these programs also have one other thing in common. The learning curve is suitable for the student. At first it is easy, and gradually it turns more and more difficult, but not too difficult. (If the student gets to many "wrongs", he gets bored, feels like a looser, and his attention goes elsewhere). Guess you have already picked up my point here (if you havent, then I have been a lousy teacher). Regarding the technical aspect the digital camera gives me instant feedback. Every time I push the button, it gives me a picture (as long as I have remembered to remove the lens cap). Most times the picture looks ok at first glance. If I'm not so sure about the technical quality, I simply push the info button. Viola, a histogram! I can push it one more time to remind me how I got this picture on screen. When done I can push the info button one more time, evaluating the content of the picture. I can see if the picture on screen is the same as the one I had inside my head when pushing the release button. Some times they actually do match. That makes me feel like a king. That makes me eager to go on. Most times they don't match. I see something in the background that I didnt see in the first place. Or something else is wrong. Ok, then I tries one more time. Perhaps I move one step to the right, or perhaps I open the aperture to make the background out of focus. You have already got the idea. The first part of this process trains my technical skills. The last part trains my eye and stimulates my mind (my most important photographic tools). Gradually, as I get better, the success rate increases. And from my experience it already has done that. A lot. The importance of rapid feedback when learning is well known among most behaviourists. We learn by getting feedback on the things we do. And the feedback has more impact when it comes directly/instantly. Let me try to explain why. If your brain has been occupied with other things while waiting for the feedback, then it is harder to connect your previous actions with the feedback (the result of your action). Tim Mostly harmless (just plain Norwegian.) Never underestimate the power of stupidity in large crowds (Very freely after Arthur C. Clarke, or some other clever guy) -Original Message- From: Bruce Dayton [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 28. juli 2005 19:36 To: Shel Belinkoff Subject: Re: Have digital cameras made us better photographers? Hello Shel, Certainly for me, what constitutes desired exposure is not exactly the same for digital as it was for film. Not having been one to have my own lab when shooting film, I really relied on the consistancy of the lab to produce from my exposures. With digital, I am now my own lab (develop and process - not print). So I am taking a deeper interest into the exposure issue than I did with film. Probably because I can do something about it and see more directly the results of my exposure and processing. I do agree that you will need a differe
Re: PESOs - Greece in Alaska
To the best of my knowledge it was a closed down hotel or restaurant. There is a defunct gas station to the left of the igloo. It seems it could be a great money maker in the tourist season. There's not any accomodations or a structure half that size in 50 miles either direction. I imagine it being a restaurant, rustically decorated with skins and furs, with the upper floors being used for lodging. Tom C. From: Jim Apilado <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Reply-To: pentax-discuss@pdml.net To: Subject: Re: PESOs - Greece in Alaska Date: Thu, 28 Jul 2005 13:20:02 -0700 Interesting image. What was the structure? Jim A. > From: "Tom C" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Reply-To: pentax-discuss@pdml.net > Date: Thu, 28 Jul 2005 13:50:49 -0600 > To: pentax-discuss@pdml.net > Subject: PESOs - Greece in Alaska > Resent-From: pentax-discuss@pdml.net > Resent-Date: Thu, 28 Jul 2005 15:50:56 -0400 > > From the recent Alaska trip. This was on the road between Anchorage and > Denali National Park. > > http://www.photo.net/photodb/photo?photo_id=3581908 > > http://www.photo.net/photodb/photo?photo_id=3581909 > > And to add a little context to the above shots: > > http://www.photo.net/photodb/photo?photo_id=3581910 > > Tom C. > >
RE: contrast control flash question
The main thing is that the body must measure the light of the two flashes independently. Therefor one flash is fired and controled at the beginning of the time the shutter is open (first curtain sync) and the second flash is fired and controlled at the end of the open shutter time (second curtain sync) The total shutter time must be long enough to allow the electronics to recover from the first flash to control the second flash correctly. Greetz, Jos > -Oorspronkelijk bericht- > Van: Juey Chong Ong [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Verzonden: Thursday, July 28, 2005 4:35 PM > Aan: pentax-discuss@pdml.net > Onderwerp: Re: contrast control flash question > > > I thought the main thing in contrast control flash is that the RTF is > told to fire at reduced power. > > > On Jul 27, 2005, at 8:54 AM, Frank Wajer wrote: > > > simple question: how does the body (specifically MZ-5n) know that > > you want contrast control flash and therefore use a flash speed of > > 1/60 instead of 1/100. >
Re: PESOs - Greece in Alaska
Interesting image. What was the structure? Jim A. > From: "Tom C" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Reply-To: pentax-discuss@pdml.net > Date: Thu, 28 Jul 2005 13:50:49 -0600 > To: pentax-discuss@pdml.net > Subject: PESOs - Greece in Alaska > Resent-From: pentax-discuss@pdml.net > Resent-Date: Thu, 28 Jul 2005 15:50:56 -0400 > > From the recent Alaska trip. This was on the road between Anchorage and > Denali National Park. > > http://www.photo.net/photodb/photo?photo_id=3581908 > > http://www.photo.net/photodb/photo?photo_id=3581909 > > And to add a little context to the above shots: > > http://www.photo.net/photodb/photo?photo_id=3581910 > > Tom C. > >
PESOs - Greece in Alaska
From the recent Alaska trip. This was on the road between Anchorage and Denali National Park. http://www.photo.net/photodb/photo?photo_id=3581908 http://www.photo.net/photodb/photo?photo_id=3581909 And to add a little context to the above shots: http://www.photo.net/photodb/photo?photo_id=3581910 Tom C.
Re: PESO - Pairs
Bruce, I do like your more "open" cropping on the left (right sides are 'prox the same). I cropped slightly more on the left to off-set the (my) feeling of a tipping to the left. I don't care for the OOF lower base tangle and I needed to take down the top so as to feel comfortable with its balance. I did an absolutely minimal bumping of contrast to help separate the blossoms from the background. No saturation increase. Jack --- Bruce Dayton <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Based upon Jack's cropping to remove the partial > bloom and Paul's > comment, I have cloned it out and present it here. > > http://www.daytonphoto.com/PAW/monumentvalley_0508a.htm > > I prefer this to the crop that Jack did as it just > felt a bit too > tight for me. > > -- > Best regards, > Bruce > > > Thursday, July 28, 2005, 11:14:30 AM, you wrote: > > pcn> Very nice. But I find that one lonely bud on > the left > pcn> that's half out of frame to be quite > disturbing. Half a minute > pcn> with the clone tool could solve that problem. > Thanks for all the > pcn> Monument Valley pics I've enjoyed them. > pcn> Paul > > > >> Taken in Monument Valley of some of the > vegetation. Due to the > >> unusually wet spring, I suspect that there were > more greenery and > >> flowers than would be normal in the valley. > >> > >> Pentax *istD, A 70-210/4, handheld > >> ISO 200, 1/1000 sec @ f/5.6 > >> Converted from Raw using Capture One LE > >> > >> > http://www.daytonphoto.com/PAW/monumentvalley_0508.htm > >> > >> Comments welcome > >> > >> -- > >> Bruce > >> > > > > __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com
Re: PESO - Pairs
Bruce: Well worth the time it took to make the changes! Jim Based upon Jack's cropping to remove the partial bloom and Paul's comment, I have cloned it out and present it here. http://www.daytonphoto.com/PAW/monumentvalley_0508a.htm I prefer this to the crop that Jack did as it just felt a bit too tight for me. -- Best regards, Bruce
Re: PESO - Pairs
Must have been the wet spring, as this type of wildflower was all over in Arches, Monument Valley and most everywhere else in that dry climate. -- Bruce Thursday, July 28, 2005, 11:53:40 AM, you wrote: pcn> Excellent. pcn> I haven't been to Monument Valley in quite a few years, but pcn> I don't recall seeing any wildflowers there. I would guess it was pcn> a wet spring, as it was in most of the southwest. pcn> Paul >> Based upon Jack's cropping to remove the partial bloom and Paul's >> comment, I have cloned it out and present it here. >> >> http://www.daytonphoto.com/PAW/monumentvalley_0508a.htm >> >> I prefer this to the crop that Jack did as it just felt a bit too >> tight for me. >> >> -- >> Best regards, >> Bruce >> >> >> Thursday, July 28, 2005, 11:14:30 AM, you wrote: >> >> pcn> Very nice. But I find that one lonely bud on the left >> pcn> that's half out of frame to be quite disturbing. Half a minute >> pcn> with the clone tool could solve that problem. Thanks for all the >> pcn> Monument Valley pics I've enjoyed them. >> pcn> Paul >> >> >> >> Taken in Monument Valley of some of the vegetation. Due to the >> >> unusually wet spring, I suspect that there were more greenery and >> >> flowers than would be normal in the valley. >> >> >> >> Pentax *istD, A 70-210/4, handheld >> >> ISO 200, 1/1000 sec @ f/5.6 >> >> Converted from Raw using Capture One LE >> >> >> >> http://www.daytonphoto.com/PAW/monumentvalley_0508.htm >> >> >> >> Comments welcome >> >> >> >> -- >> >> Bruce >> >> >> >> >>
Re: PESO - Pairs
Excellent. I haven't been to Monument Valley in quite a few years, but I don't recall seeing any wildflowers there. I would guess it was a wet spring, as it was in most of the southwest. Paul > Based upon Jack's cropping to remove the partial bloom and Paul's > comment, I have cloned it out and present it here. > > http://www.daytonphoto.com/PAW/monumentvalley_0508a.htm > > I prefer this to the crop that Jack did as it just felt a bit too > tight for me. > > -- > Best regards, > Bruce > > > Thursday, July 28, 2005, 11:14:30 AM, you wrote: > > pcn> Very nice. But I find that one lonely bud on the left > pcn> that's half out of frame to be quite disturbing. Half a minute > pcn> with the clone tool could solve that problem. Thanks for all the > pcn> Monument Valley pics I've enjoyed them. > pcn> Paul > > > >> Taken in Monument Valley of some of the vegetation. Due to the > >> unusually wet spring, I suspect that there were more greenery and > >> flowers than would be normal in the valley. > >> > >> Pentax *istD, A 70-210/4, handheld > >> ISO 200, 1/1000 sec @ f/5.6 > >> Converted from Raw using Capture One LE > >> > >> http://www.daytonphoto.com/PAW/monumentvalley_0508.htm > >> > >> Comments welcome > >> > >> -- > >> Bruce > >> > > >
Re: Cleaning Pentax-F lenses?
Powell Hargrave wrote: This may help: http://members.shaw.ca/hargravep/70-210.htm Powell Hi, I've just received a Pentax-F 35-135 smc from Ebay that seems to have quite a bit of internal dust. Is it difficult to dismantle these lenses for cleaning? - and, perhaps more to the point, is it difficult to get them back together properly?! Any other less drastic suggestions for shifting dust on internal elements? - I've considered using compresed air - is this viable? TIA Talk about an interesting set of photos! Your middle name must be Job, what with your patience! ;-) Good job! keith whaley
RE: PESO: Brand New Bike
Colour is fairly accurate. It was late afternoon shade with a very blue sky. It could be warmed in PhotoShop but his is about how it looked. Powell At 03:26 AM 28/07/2005 , Markus Maurer wrote: > >Hi Powell >I do remember my first "real" bike and my first "ride" very well. >But then it had only two wheels and I was older ;-) >You photo is lovely and a keeper. >But it shows bit of a blue/magenta cast here which should be easily >correctable. > > >>>-Original Message- >>>From: Powell Hargrave [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] >>>Sent: Thursday, July 28, 2005 7:29 AM >>>To: pentax-discuss@pdml.net >>>Subject: PESO: Brand New Bike >>> >>> >>>How many of us can remember this day? >>> >>>http://members.shaw.ca/hargravep/Image7.htm >>> >>>Powell >>> >
RE: Have digital cameras made us better photographers?
Hi, > I don't expect digital to improve my eye, quicken my > reflexes, or teach me much about composition, although it > will affect the way I see and work with light. in what ways will it affect the way you see and work with light? -- Cheers, Bob
Re: PESO - Pairs
Based upon Jack's cropping to remove the partial bloom and Paul's comment, I have cloned it out and present it here. http://www.daytonphoto.com/PAW/monumentvalley_0508a.htm I prefer this to the crop that Jack did as it just felt a bit too tight for me. -- Best regards, Bruce Thursday, July 28, 2005, 11:14:30 AM, you wrote: pcn> Very nice. But I find that one lonely bud on the left pcn> that's half out of frame to be quite disturbing. Half a minute pcn> with the clone tool could solve that problem. Thanks for all the pcn> Monument Valley pics I've enjoyed them. pcn> Paul >> Taken in Monument Valley of some of the vegetation. Due to the >> unusually wet spring, I suspect that there were more greenery and >> flowers than would be normal in the valley. >> >> Pentax *istD, A 70-210/4, handheld >> ISO 200, 1/1000 sec @ f/5.6 >> Converted from Raw using Capture One LE >> >> http://www.daytonphoto.com/PAW/monumentvalley_0508.htm >> >> Comments welcome >> >> -- >> Bruce >>
RE: Have digital cameras made us better photographers?
I said nothing about being less cognizant of the light ... working with conventional B&W requires a different use of light than with color or digital. Shel > [Original Message] > From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > In regard to working with light, I think you'll find that all the same relatinships apply. There is no reason why anyone shooting digital should be less cognizant of the light than someone shooting film. In fact, having rudimentary feedback on the preview screen will sometimes remind me that I haven't looked closely enough at the light and need to find a different camera position or return at a different time.
Re: Cleaning Pentax-F lenses?
This may help: http://members.shaw.ca/hargravep/70-210.htm Powell > >Hi, I've just received a Pentax-F 35-135 smc from Ebay that seems to have >quite a bit of internal dust. > >Is it difficult to dismantle these lenses for cleaning? - and, perhaps more >to the point, is it difficult to get them back together properly?! > >Any other less drastic suggestions for shifting dust on internal elements? - >I've considered using compresed air - is this viable? > >TIA >
Re: PESO - Pairs
Very nice. But I find that one lonely bud on the left that's half out of frame to be quite disturbing. Half a minute with the clone tool could solve that problem. Thanks for all the Monument Valley pics I've enjoyed them. Paul > Taken in Monument Valley of some of the vegetation. Due to the > unusually wet spring, I suspect that there were more greenery and > flowers than would be normal in the valley. > > Pentax *istD, A 70-210/4, handheld > ISO 200, 1/1000 sec @ f/5.6 > Converted from Raw using Capture One LE > > http://www.daytonphoto.com/PAW/monumentvalley_0508.htm > > Comments welcome > > -- > Bruce >
RE: Have digital cameras made us better photographers?
Convenience is certainly part of the appeal of digital. You may eventually find other aspects of it that will please you as well, but to be free -- even just some of the time -- from the burden of processing is very nice. In regard to working with light, I think you'll find that all the same relatinships apply. There is no reason why anyone shooting digital should be less cognizant of the light than someone shooting film. In fact, having rudimentary feedback on the preview screen will sometimes remind me that I haven't looked closely enough at the light and need to find a different camera position or return at a different time. > Hi Tim, > > I've been considering why I'd want a DSLR, and it comes down to mostly one > reason: It's not for quality, it's not for how nice shooting RAW might be, > it's not for any of the camera's features ... nope, it's because there are > times - more and more often these days - when I'm just too lazy to process > film. I've never gotten much enjoyment from agitating a development tank. > So, it's laziness, pure and simple. Not laziness in shooting or composing a > photo, but just too damned lazy to process film or drive it to the lab. > > A secondary reason is for snaps ... family, friends, maybe shots around the > neighborhood. > > > I don't expect digital to improve my eye, quicken my reflexes, or teach me > much about composition, although it will affect the way I see and work with > light. That troubles me a bit, so I'll have to watch that closely when > going from digi to B&W film. > > Shel > > > > [Original Message] > > From: Tim Øsleby <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > To: > > Date: 7/28/2005 8:51:29 AM > > Subject: RE: Have digital cameras made us better photographers? > > > > Bill. > > Reading your post I find myself thinking that what you basically are > saying, > > is that you have become a lazy photographer. Lazy photographer as in - "a > > photographer who shoots wildly, and has stopped reflecting". Am I right > > about this? If not, please do ignore this friendly intended post. > >
Re: PESO - Pairs
Hi Jack ... the removal of the "orphan" blossom does improve the pic a bit, but it also changes its context. I think both work, although I do go back and forth between which is preferable. The additional saturation and contrast doesn't work for me. The photo seems to want a softer, more delicate look. Also, the more saturated look that so many photogs are using these days has become tiresome. Others will most certainly disagree. Shel > [Original Message] > From: Jack Davis > I took the liberty of 'simplifying' this image. Juiced > the contrast a tiny bit, also. > What do you think? > > Jack > http://photolightimages.com/aspupload/detail.asp?ID=72
RE: Paw. GFM Pic #10. IR #2
Thanks for the comment Tim. Glad you liked it. IR is a fun medium but it plays tricks on you. But thats have the fun.LOL Dave > Boris is a man of strange compliments. ;-) > > This plain Norwegian is a bit less subtle. I love the picture. > IR photo is now on my "things I want to play with in next life list". > > > Tim > Mostly harmless (just plain Norwegian.) > > Never underestimate the power of stupidity in large crowds > (Very freely after Arthur C. Clarke, or some other clever guy)
Re: Have digital cameras made us better photographers?
Hello Shel, Certainly for me, what constitutes desired exposure is not exactly the same for digital as it was for film. Not having been one to have my own lab when shooting film, I really relied on the consistancy of the lab to produce from my exposures. With digital, I am now my own lab (develop and process - not print). So I am taking a deeper interest into the exposure issue than I did with film. Probably because I can do something about it and see more directly the results of my exposure and processing. I do agree that you will need a different frame of mind when shooting digital from film. As you switch back and forth, you'll need to use the knowledge you have gained for that particular medium. -- Bruce Thursday, July 28, 2005, 10:20:42 AM, you wrote: SB> Hi Tim, >snip< SB> I don't expect digital to improve my eye, quicken my reflexes, or teach me SB> much about composition, although it will affect the way I see and work with SB> light. That troubles me a bit, so I'll have to watch that closely when SB> going from digi to B&W film. SB> Shel
Re: PESO - Pairs
Thanks for your comment Shel. -- Bruce Thursday, July 28, 2005, 10:28:01 AM, you wrote: SB> I like that, Bruce. Your "detail" shots are quite nice. Thanks! SB> Shel >> [Original Message] >> From: Bruce Dayton >> http://www.daytonphoto.com/PAW/monumentvalley_0508.htm >> >> Comments welcome >> >> -- >> Bruce
Re: Going back to the nine seconds for advise
- Original Message - From: "Godfrey DiGiorgi" Subject: Re: Going back to the nine seconds for advise On Jul 28, 2005, at 12:32 AM, Frantisek wrote: You obviously haven't been around computers much. Murphys laws apply here twice as much as in normal life, and little pixies & electron fairies have their quirks ;-) LOL ... Only 22 years of a professional career in the computer industry. ;-) I think you hit the nail on the head regarding power supplies. If you have spent most of your time with Macs or high end PC's reliability of power supply should be less of an issue, and reliability of hardware, drives included, should also be higher. Cheap power supplies can cause all sorts of problems. Upon reflection, I do wonder how many of the WD complaints that I have heard were caused by cheap power supplies screwing things up.. William Robb
Re: PESO - Pairs
Bruce, I took the liberty of 'simplifying' this image. Juiced the contrast a tiny bit, also. What do you think? Jack http://photolightimages.com/aspupload/detail.asp?ID=72 --- Bruce Dayton <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Taken in Monument Valley of some of the vegetation. > Due to the > unusually wet spring, I suspect that there were more > greenery and > flowers than would be normal in the valley. > > Pentax *istD, A 70-210/4, handheld > ISO 200, 1/1000 sec @ f/5.6 > Converted from Raw using Capture One LE > > http://www.daytonphoto.com/PAW/monumentvalley_0508.htm > > Comments welcome > > -- > Bruce > > __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com
RE: PESO - Pairs
I like that, Bruce. Your "detail" shots are quite nice. Thanks! Shel > [Original Message] > From: Bruce Dayton > http://www.daytonphoto.com/PAW/monumentvalley_0508.htm > > Comments welcome > > -- > Bruce
RE: Have digital cameras made us better photographers?
Hi Tim, I've been considering why I'd want a DSLR, and it comes down to mostly one reason: It's not for quality, it's not for how nice shooting RAW might be, it's not for any of the camera's features ... nope, it's because there are times - more and more often these days - when I'm just too lazy to process film. I've never gotten much enjoyment from agitating a development tank. So, it's laziness, pure and simple. Not laziness in shooting or composing a photo, but just too damned lazy to process film or drive it to the lab. A secondary reason is for snaps ... family, friends, maybe shots around the neighborhood. I don't expect digital to improve my eye, quicken my reflexes, or teach me much about composition, although it will affect the way I see and work with light. That troubles me a bit, so I'll have to watch that closely when going from digi to B&W film. Shel > [Original Message] > From: Tim Øsleby <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: > Date: 7/28/2005 8:51:29 AM > Subject: RE: Have digital cameras made us better photographers? > > Bill. > Reading your post I find myself thinking that what you basically are saying, > is that you have become a lazy photographer. Lazy photographer as in - "a > photographer who shoots wildly, and has stopped reflecting". Am I right > about this? If not, please do ignore this friendly intended post.
Re: introduction
Welcome to the list Ivan, even if you are Canadian. :0 Actually I love Canada and like you all, except maybe Elvis Stoiko. You'll have fun. Tom C.
PESO - Pairs
Taken in Monument Valley of some of the vegetation. Due to the unusually wet spring, I suspect that there were more greenery and flowers than would be normal in the valley. Pentax *istD, A 70-210/4, handheld ISO 200, 1/1000 sec @ f/5.6 Converted from Raw using Capture One LE http://www.daytonphoto.com/PAW/monumentvalley_0508.htm Comments welcome -- Bruce
RE: Have digital cameras made us better photographers?
Bill. Reading your post I find myself thinking that what you basically are saying, is that you have become a lazy photographer. Lazy photographer as in - "a photographer who shoots wildly, and has stopped reflecting". Am I right about this? If not, please do ignore this friendly intended post. Between the lines I also read that you blame your new digital tools. If my interpretation of your statements are correct, then let me freely (not to freely I hope) say that you have got it totally wrong. Photography is craftsmanship, and sometimes (a tiny bit of) art. And a craftsman needs to keep his tools sharp. As a photographer, digital or not, you have a set of tools. One of the tools is the camera. The camera is (if it manual), a simple recorder. In other words, it is memory, no more, no less. Whether it is digital or film does not matter. It still is memory. If it's automatic, it is also a meter (like a carpenters meter), and a calculator. Nothing more, nothing less. But the main tool is you, your emotions, and you reflections. And thats the most complicated tool. To me it looks like you have become obsessed with the least important parts of your equipment, the stuff, "your enablement's", your Limited, your LX, your D, your Lditt, your MZdatt. Here let me add one thing. I'm a bit obsessed with the stuff myself now and then. My Ds, my FA*, my Element 3 and so on. But when I find my self spending to much time on them, I don't blame them. I go out and shoot. And I make myself shoot slow. Sometimes I do as Ivan Shukster, shoot with a tripod, forcing myself to shoot slowly, reflecting. With my digital tools, and using my main tool: Me, myself and I. Sharpening myself, hopefully turning me into a better photographer. Back to the carpenter: Imagine him saying "I've given this some thought over the past couple of days, and honestly, I think the Stanley Digital Laser-Meter has, if anything, made me a worse carpenter". What would your reactions be? Do you really think his brand new beeping meter was to blame? Tim Mostly harmless (just plain Norwegian.) Never underestimate the power of stupidity in large crowds (Very freely after Arthur C. Clarke, or some other clever guy) -Original Message- From: William Robb [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 27. juli 2005 16:40 To: Pentax Discuss Subject: Re: Have digital cameras made us better photographers? I've given this some thought over the past couple of days, and honestly, I think digital has, if anything, made me a worse photographer, rather than a better one. I find myself making a dozen exposures when I only need to make one. I find myself taking pictures of things that are inherently unphotogenic. One of the skills I have spent years developing in myself is an efficiency of process. One thing I really don't like to waste is my time (this mail list is the exception). Digital wastes my time. Too many exposures made, too many exposures to look at to be meaningful anymore. The product of a mind becoming less disciplined, less thoughtful, more willing to take a mad bomber approach to photography. This is a complete change from my work in large format, where every exposure made was at a cost, both in money and time, but also in ability to make another exposure later that session. When one is limited to making no more than a few dozen exposures before taking a time out to reload film holders, which may not be conveniently done, one looks hard before tripping the shutter. When one is putting out a couple of dollars every time he trips the shutter, he thinks a bit about doing it. When every frame has to be put into a tank and processed, one thinks about how much time will be spent doing the mundane task of film processing, and thinks about how many tanks of film are ahead of him. Digital is a tempting little whore, and it is easy to talk oneself into thinking it makes us better by applying outdated criteria to what we are doing, but I have my doubts, based on my own experience, as to whether there is any truth or not to it making us better photographers. It enforces nothing on us, it requires no discipline in approach, and no skill in operation; the two main ingredients in becoming a better photographer are missing. William Robb
Re: A Visit to Adobe
- Original Message - From: "Tim Sherburne" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > I've also had the opportunity to visit Apple's HQ several times, and what > strikes me about these monuments to modern enterprise is the attention to > detail and the depth of design. Even Adobe's elevators have a pleasant chime > that I've never heard anywhere else. > > Like others have mentioned, one of my first thoughts was, "so this is where > my hard earned money goes..." I happen to work for the largest "Online" company in "America." The flagship office buildings in the main complex are nothing special WRT design and ergonomics, but the massive datacenters are awe-inspiring. The scale and technology involved, especially, the cooling and power-backup systems, is amazing. Christian who's lucky enough to work in a datacenter and have my own office. If I was at the HQ complex I'd be living in a cube-farm.
Re: A Visit to Adobe
Some time ago, I visited these offices to discuss printing technologies. Although I did not get a chance to meet the "celebs" of Adobe as this person did, it was a neat opportunity to walk the halls of such a legendary place. I've also had the opportunity to visit Apple's HQ several times, and what strikes me about these monuments to modern enterprise is the attention to detail and the depth of design. Even Adobe's elevators have a pleasant chime that I've never heard anywhere else. Like others have mentioned, one of my first thoughts was, "so this is where my hard earned money goes..." Tim On 7/27/05 23:44, Shel Belinkoff wrote: > Hi Gang > > Maybe a few of you would like to see the Adobe offices and "meet" a few of > the engineers and designers. > > http://photoshopnews.com/feature-stories/a-visit-to-adobe/ > > > Shel > > > >
Re: Name that lens!
It's a good lens. I payed 141 Euros + shipping for mine. > J. C. O'Connell wrote: > > >Ended Auction: > > > >http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=7530372848 > > > >I got the above lens in the mail today. Certainly the > >best $24 lens in my entire life. The sucker is virtually > >like new and working perfectly. Sometimes you gamble > >and sometimes you win > > > >Sorry, but I just had to gloat a little on this one. I > >bid WAY more but no one challanged me. Cool! > > > >Delighted, > >JCO > > > > > > J.C. O'Connell mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://jcoconnell.com > > > > > > > > > > > > >
Re: Friday Morning on the Brooklyn Bridge
Frank, Great composition. The only thing that bothers me (and it's not that big a bother) is that the bridge tower is listing to port. Christian - Original Message - From: "frank theriault" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "PDML" Sent: Wednesday, July 27, 2005 6:40 PM Subject: PESO: Friday Morning on the Brooklyn Bridge > Friday morning, I got up early. Annsan was still asleep (Thursday > night's Scrabble night, so she gets home late). I went for a ride, > not knowing where I was going, just to see some sights and soak in The > City. Along the route, all of a sudden, there's the Brooklyn Bridge. > I had to ride across it, which I did. I had to take a pic, which I > did. > > Mr. Roebling's masterpiece is likely one of the most photographed > structures in the world, so getting a fresh, new look at it, saying > something different with it or about it isn't easy. This is not such > a shot, just a snap , but I rather like it anyway. Just in case > you're wondering, I had a haze filter on, but the sky was completely > washed out and grey: > > http://www.photo.net/photodb/photo?photo_id=3579336&size=lg > > Comments are welcome! > > thanks, > frank > > > -- > "Sharpness is a bourgeois concept." -Henri Cartier-Bresson >
RE: A* 600 f5.6 on Ebay - won by warobb
Well then I guess it's a good price, although it's quite a bit more than the previous owner paid. I didn't realize the A version was that expensive new. I wonder if it's really still available. Until just recently, B&H was advertising the A 400/5.6 for $1400, while it was selling regularly on ebay for less than $500. > Bill bought it for less than 1/2 of the current B&H price. > > Don > > > -Original Message- > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Sent: Thursday, July 28, 2005 8:56 AM > > To: pentax-discuss@pdml.net > > Subject: Re: A* 600 f5.6 on Ebay - won by warobb > > > > > > Bill is indeed a Pentaxian saint. He's singlehandedly upping the > > market value of Pentax glass. Does anyone know what this lens > > sold for new? > > > > > > > Angel Ramos discombobulated, unleashed > > > > > > He has become a Pentaxian saint now, after this major enablement. Wait > > > and see until he get this Major Glass Beast. Hmm, which makes me think > > > that he will look for the FA * 600 ( if he does not have it yet!) for > > > pairing it with two nice bodies, and repeat the torture he comitted by > > > sending the "I suck" mail, by taking a nice picture and show it to us > > > to make us cry again just like his last Limited's picture. Robb You > > > Suck! ;-) > > > > > > Angel Ramos > > > Arecibo, Puerto Rico > > > > > > > > > > > > >
RE: Storing digital images (Was: RAW file processing)
Alas, a solid floor and space are two things we don't have in our 120-year-old rowhouse. --- Malcolm Smith <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > If you look at auction houses - particularly those > who liquidate businesses > gone bust - some suitable fire/etc proof cabinets do > occasionally come up at > a small fraction of what they were new. Granted you > have to have the floor > space and a solid floor to put one on. __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com
