Re: [Phono-L] Cleaning a phonograph. Wax removing.
This is a serial number for a late Spring Motor machine and likely the only reference to this on the machine would be the plate on the front with Spring Motor For Phonograph in front of the mandrel. No plate in front of the mandrel in this phonograph nor in any other Spring Motor I have seen in Spain. Only a plate on the top with patent dates and serial number. No Spring Motor words in any place of this phonograph. Look at this picture of another Spring Motor from Spain: http://www.coleccionfb.com/Edison-Bettini.htm Perhaps they are Class M converted to Spring Motor? All spanish catalogs of phonograph shops did that conversion for half the price of a Class M. Gabriel. ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org
Re: [Phono-L] Cleaning a phonograph. Wax removing.
The light oil in WD-40 is fish oil. I agree, this stuff -- along with garbage 'disposals' and 'duct' tape -- is one of the most mis-marketed, mis-recommended, and mis-used consumer items on the planet! Back when I was in facilities management, I cannot tell you how many locks I encountered that someone had 'lubricated' by spraying WD-40 into the keyway turning the dry powdered graphite lube into a cementitious mass that requires disassembly and cleaning of the lock. When I found a can of 'WD-DooDoo' (as I like to call it) on a maintenance man's shelf, I would confiscate it. That stuff is 99% useless. From: steve_nor...@msn.com To: phono-l@oldcrank.org Date: Sun, 14 Feb 2010 17:16:34 -0500 Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Cleaning a phonograph. Wax removing. Hello Greg, I cannot agree more. I put a spring in a plastic bag with WD-40 for long term storage and the spring rusted. WD-40 does nothing to help removing old grease and gasoline actually make it harder to remove. Molybdenum-disulfide performs the same function as graphite without the abrasive qualities of the graphite. Steve From: gbogan...@charter.net To: phono-l@oldcrank.org Date: Sun, 14 Feb 2010 15:17:17 -0500 Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Cleaning a phonograph. Wax removing. I wish people would stop recommending WD-40 as an all-purpose lubricant. It is particularly UNSUITABLE for lubricating fine mechanisms with small parts. It was originally designed as a waterproofing agent, hence, it's name WD-40 refers to the fact that it is a water displacement product, this being the 40th attempt. It was invented in 1953, before which time plenty of other products were found quite suitable for lubrication purposes. The long-term ingredient is a VISCOUS oil that is carried by a light, highly volatile mineral oil carrier, similar to kerosene. The kerosene acts as a penetrating agent which serves to carry the heavy oil into cracks and crevices, the better to waterproof the treated object. So, yes, the kerosene performs as a penetrating oil for about 5 minutes. Then the kerosene evaporates, and you're left with the sticky oil worked into the cracks and crannies. See the description and ingredients here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WD-40 This description has fit my experience exactly. After the carrier evaporates, you've got a sticky, tacky mess left on the object you're trying to lubricate. Bad choice for small gears and pinions. I find that WD-40 is useful primarily for exactly what it was originally intended - waterproofing. And it functions as a lubricant for heavier mechanisms, although a proper oil or grease is far preferable. If you want a penetrating oil, use pure kerosene. I use an automotive product that consists of a very light volatile carrier with suspended tiny graphite particles called Part-Ease. It's particularly good for stuck rusty parts. Don't know if that brand is still available - the can I'm using is one I bought 30 years ago. Works good on exhaust manifold bolts on cars and motorcycles. If you want a proper lubricant for fine mechanisms like clocks and similar low-torque mechanisms, use a proper very light oil such as can be purchased from clock repair parts suppliers. Proper light clock oil does not dry up or get tacky. And it's available in various viscosities for light, medium, and moderately heavy torque applications. For most phonograph mechanisms, I find that ordinary 20 or 30 weight automotive motor oil works quite well. For sliding surfaces such as the reproducer bearing bar surfaces on many Edison cylinder machines, I use a mixture of 30 weight oil and a PTFE (teflon) product such as Slick 50. The PTFE provides long lasting surface penetration into the metal for superior reduction of sliding friction and stiction. Actually, I like this oil-PTFE mixture so well that I now use if for all my medium-duty lubrication needs. For very heavy torque applications such as the main bull gears of phonographs, an ordinary automotive grease is appropriate. I use a molybdenum-disulfide based grease (molly dum-dum for you motorcycle wrenches out there) for most applications. It doesn't dry out, channel, and get stiff like many lithium based greases. Greg Bogantz - Original Message - From: Curt Angstman vinyl.visi...@live.com To: phono-l@oldcrank.org Sent: Sunday, February 14, 2010 8:36 AM Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Cleaning a phonograph. Wax removing. Hi Gabriel, For basic motor cleaning, remove the motor from the machine and find a container large enough to fit it in. Fill the container with kerosene and let it soak for several days. Use a toothbrush to remove sludge from gears and small parts. Kerosene will not harm your motor and will actually lubricate it. When
Re: [Phono-L] Cleaning a phonograph. Wax removing.
Unless the springs thump when they unwind I would not open the cans to re-grease. Instead, use WD-40(which is mostly kerosene, I beleive) or straight kerosene (stove or lamp oil) and apply it to the gears with a stiff, long bristled brush. Re lubricate bearings with oil and re-grease gears. I use mechanic's waterless hand cleaner (without Pumic!) to clean the upper works and case. This material will not hurt the finish of either surface either and it cuts through old oil and grease and wax. I wipe it on, let it sit or rub it in and then remove with clean paper towels or cloth. Repeat until the wipe-off cloth does not show dirt. You should be able to get case parts from George Vollema, victr...@triton.net , but give him a few days before you contact him. His wife has just passed away. If you know the diameter of the diaphragm, George may have a mica one for you. I don't know about the aluminum one. I doubt that he would have a recording stylus either but you can always ask. Ron -Original Message- From: phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org [mailto:phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org] On Behalf Of Gabriel Marro Sent: Sunday, February 14, 2010 9:35 AM To: Antique Phonograph List Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Cleaning a phonograph. Wax removing. I can't help with the parts, but what do you mean by click-fitting system. Are you talking about the latches on an early Edison? Hope this helps, Thanks for your help. And YES, I am talking about latches. Excuse my poor english. I can say latches in spanish with more than twenty different words (pestillo, falleba, pasador, picaporte, cierre, fiador, resbalón, etc.) but I think I need to improve my english lexicon. When you say re-grease the spring, are you talking about open and separate the three spring cans? Gabriel. ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org
Re: [Phono-L] Cleaning a phonograph. Wax removing.
You should have also chopped off his spay button finger. John Maeder wrote: The light oil in WD-40 is fish oil. I agree, this stuff -- along with garbage 'disposals' and 'duct' tape -- is one of the most mis-marketed, mis-recommended, and mis-used consumer items on the planet! Back when I was in facilities management, I cannot tell you how many locks I encountered that someone had 'lubricated' by spraying WD-40 into the keyway turning the dry powdered graphite lube into a cementitious mass that requires disassembly and cleaning of the lock. When I found a can of 'WD-DooDoo' (as I like to call it) on a maintenance man's shelf, I would confiscate it. That stuff is 99% useless. From: steve_nor...@msn.com To: phono-l@oldcrank.org Date: Sun, 14 Feb 2010 17:16:34 -0500 Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Cleaning a phonograph. Wax removing. Hello Greg, I cannot agree more. I put a spring in a plastic bag with WD-40 for long term storage and the spring rusted. WD-40 does nothing to help removing old grease and gasoline actually make it harder to remove. Molybdenum-disulfide performs the same function as graphite without the abrasive qualities of the graphite. Steve From: gbogan...@charter.net To: phono-l@oldcrank.org Date: Sun, 14 Feb 2010 15:17:17 -0500 Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Cleaning a phonograph. Wax removing. I wish people would stop recommending WD-40 as an all-purpose lubricant. It is particularly UNSUITABLE for lubricating fine mechanisms with small parts. It was originally designed as a waterproofing agent, hence, it's name WD-40 refers to the fact that it is a water displacement product, this being the 40th attempt. It was invented in 1953, before which time plenty of other products were found quite suitable for lubrication purposes. The long-term ingredient is a VISCOUS oil that is carried by a light, highly volatile mineral oil carrier, similar to kerosene. The kerosene acts as a penetrating agent which serves to carry the heavy oil into cracks and crevices, the better to waterproof the treated object. So, yes, the kerosene performs as a penetrating oil for about 5 minutes. Then the kerosene evaporates, and you're left with the sticky oil worked into the cracks and crannies. See the description and ingredients here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WD-40 This description has fit my experience exactly. After the carrier evaporates, you've got a sticky, tacky mess left on the object you're trying to lubricate. Bad choice for small gears and pinions. I find that WD-40 is useful primarily for exactly what it was originally intended - waterproofing. And it functions as a lubricant for heavier mechanisms, although a proper oil or grease is far preferable. If you want a penetrating oil, use pure kerosene. I use an automotive product that consists of a very light volatile carrier with suspended tiny graphite particles called Part-Ease. It's particularly good for stuck rusty parts. Don't know if that brand is still available - the can I'm using is one I bought 30 years ago. Works good on exhaust manifold bolts on cars and motorcycles. If you want a proper lubricant for fine mechanisms like clocks and similar low-torque mechanisms, use a proper very light oil such as can be purchased from clock repair parts suppliers. Proper light clock oil does not dry up or get tacky. And it's available in various viscosities for light, medium, and moderately heavy torque applications. For most phonograph mechanisms, I find that ordinary 20 or 30 weight automotive motor oil works quite well. For sliding surfaces such as the reproducer bearing bar surfaces on many Edison cylinder machines, I use a mixture of 30 weight oil and a PTFE (teflon) product such as Slick 50. The PTFE provides long lasting surface penetration into the metal for superior reduction of sliding friction and stiction. Actually, I like this oil-PTFE mixture so well that I now use if for all my medium-duty lubrication needs. For very heavy torque applications such as the main bull gears of phonographs, an ordinary automotive grease is appropriate. I use a molybdenum-disulfide based grease (molly dum-dum for you motorcycle wrenches out there) for most applications. It doesn't dry out, channel, and get stiff like many lithium based greases. Greg Bogantz - Original Message - From: Curt Angstman vinyl.visi...@live.com To: phono-l@oldcrank.org Sent: Sunday, February 14, 2010 8:36 AM Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Cleaning a phonograph. Wax removing. Hi Gabriel, For basic motor cleaning, remove the motor from the machine and find a container large enough to fit it in. Fill the container with kerosene and let it soak for several days. Use a toothbrush to remove sludge from gears and small parts. Kerosene will not harm your motor and will actually lubricate it. When you are through, you need to re-grease the spring, if possible. Grease will continue to leak from
Re: [Phono-L] Cleaning a phonograph. Wax removing.
Usually when we spay we cut something ELSE off! Sent from my iPhone -- Peter pjfra...@mac.com On Feb 15, 2010, at 11:17 AM, Rich rich-m...@octoxol.com wrote: You should have also chopped off his spay button finger. ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org
[Phono-L] Cleaning a phonograph. Wax removing.
I have just begun to clean my old and dirty Edison Spring Motor and it is a very heavy work. Do any of you know what kind of product I can use to solve the wax and grease that is on all the surfaces of the phonograph? I don't want to damage the black paint nor the chrome finish of parts. Any ideas? I also need some help for lacking parts. I need a speed regulating screw knob and the lid lacks some metal parts to fit the phonograph base. If any of you can send me photos of how must be the complete click-fitting system, I think I can make an idea. And, for the Bettinis, I need mica and metal foil diaphragms as well as the recorder stylus that it lacks. Thanks in advance. Gabriel. ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org
Re: [Phono-L] Cleaning a phonograph. Wax removing.
Hi Gabriel, For basic motor cleaning, remove the motor from the machine and find a container large enough to fit it in. Fill the container with kerosene and let it soak for several days. Use a toothbrush to remove sludge from gears and small parts. Kerosene will not harm your motor and will actually lubricate it. When you are through, you need to re-grease the spring, if possible. Grease will continue to leak from the motor for awhile, since the kerosene dissolves it, so you will want to put a rag under it after it is re-installed. I also use WD 40 and spray lithium grease to re-lube the motor. WD 40 also will remove crud from the wood cabinet or painted surfaces without harming the finish - I use it on my BMW to remove tar, etc. It's a great product and has many uses, like removing sticker glue, tar and grease. It is also wonderful for re-energizing the paint on a horn. On black horns, I touch up scratches with a Sharpie marker and/or liquid gun bluing (gun bluing works great to age metal parts) and then clean the horn with WD 40. On painted or flowered horns, it cleans and deepens the colors. Neither kerosene or WD 40 will harm painted or nickel finished parts. WD 40 also restores and cleans 78 records and Amberol cylinders. Some people will disagree with that, but take a dirty, scratchy 78 record and try it - it will improve the sound and make it look better - and absolutely NO damage to the record - spray it on and wipe it off. I have used this method for over 30 years and have never had any damage to my records. It will not dissolve 78 rpm records or celluloid, but DO NOT use it on wax cylinders!!! I can't help with the parts, but what do you mean by click-fitting system. Are you talking about the latches on an early Edison? Hope this helps, Curt From: gabrielma...@telefonica.net Date: Sun, 14 Feb 2010 12:46:07 +0100 To: phono-l@oldcrank.org Subject: [Phono-L] Cleaning a phonograph. Wax removing. I have just begun to clean my old and dirty Edison Spring Motor and it is a very heavy work. Do any of you know what kind of product I can use to solve the wax and grease that is on all the surfaces of the phonograph? I don't want to damage the black paint nor the chrome finish of parts. Any ideas? I also need some help for lacking parts. I need a speed regulating screw knob and the lid lacks some metal parts to fit the phonograph base. If any of you can send me photos of how must be the complete click-fitting system, I think I can make an idea. And, for the Bettinis, I need mica and metal foil diaphragms as well as the recorder stylus that it lacks. Thanks in advance. Gabriel. ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org _ Hotmail: Trusted email with Microsoft’s powerful SPAM protection. http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/201469226/direct/01/ ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org
Re: [Phono-L] Cleaning a phonograph. Wax removing.
I can't help with the parts, but what do you mean by click-fitting system. Are you talking about the latches on an early Edison? Hope this helps, Thanks for your help. And YES, I am talking about latches. Excuse my poor english. I can say latches in spanish with more than twenty different words (pestillo, falleba, pasador, picaporte, cierre, fiador, resbalón, etc.) but I think I need to improve my english lexicon. When you say re-grease the spring, are you talking about open and separate the three spring cans? Gabriel. ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org
Re: [Phono-L] Cleaning a phonograph. Wax removing.
Yes, if you want the best job, you have to open the spring barrels - don't remove the springs - and pack some grease around the springs. Any good grease will work. It will keep the sprinngs from clunking and making noise when playing. Curt From: gabrielma...@telefonica.net Date: Sun, 14 Feb 2010 15:34:36 +0100 To: phono-l@oldcrank.org Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Cleaning a phonograph. Wax removing. I can't help with the parts, but what do you mean by click-fitting system. Are you talking about the latches on an early Edison? Hope this helps, Thanks for your help. And YES, I am talking about latches. Excuse my poor english. I can say latches in spanish with more than twenty different words (pestillo, falleba, pasador, picaporte, cierre, fiador, resbalón, etc.) but I think I need to improve my english lexicon. When you say re-grease the spring, are you talking about open and separate the three spring cans? Gabriel. ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org _ Your E-mail and More On-the-Go. Get Windows Live Hotmail Free. http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/201469229/direct/01/ ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org
Re: [Phono-L] Cleaning a phonograph. Wax removing.
For the latches - are you talking about the ones that slide in from the side to keep the lid on - like on a Standard? Or are you talking about an early suitcase Home which has latches like a toolbox or lunchbox? What Model is your phonograph? Curt From: gabrielma...@telefonica.net Date: Sun, 14 Feb 2010 15:34:36 +0100 To: phono-l@oldcrank.org Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Cleaning a phonograph. Wax removing. I can't help with the parts, but what do you mean by click-fitting system. Are you talking about the latches on an early Edison? Hope this helps, Thanks for your help. And YES, I am talking about latches. Excuse my poor english. I can say latches in spanish with more than twenty different words (pestillo, falleba, pasador, picaporte, cierre, fiador, resbalón, etc.) but I think I need to improve my english lexicon. When you say re-grease the spring, are you talking about open and separate the three spring cans? Gabriel. ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org _ Hotmail: Powerful Free email with security by Microsoft. http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/201469230/direct/01/ ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org
Re: [Phono-L] Cleaning a phonograph. Wax removing.
Here is a link to see latches on a suitcase Home: http://www.worldofgramophones.com/edisonhome.html Here's another: http://www.edisontinfoil.com/home1456.htm From: gabrielma...@telefonica.net Date: Sun, 14 Feb 2010 15:34:36 +0100 To: phono-l@oldcrank.org Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Cleaning a phonograph. Wax removing. I can't help with the parts, but what do you mean by click-fitting system. Are you talking about the latches on an early Edison? Hope this helps, Thanks for your help. And YES, I am talking about latches. Excuse my poor english. I can say latches in spanish with more than twenty different words (pestillo, falleba, pasador, picaporte, cierre, fiador, resbalón, etc.) but I think I need to improve my english lexicon. When you say re-grease the spring, are you talking about open and separate the three spring cans? Gabriel. ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org _ Hotmail: Trusted email with powerful SPAM protection. http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/201469227/direct/01/ ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org
Re: [Phono-L] Cleaning a phonograph. Wax removing.
Does it have a model number on the tag? I am assuming that this is a cylinder type Edison machine? From: gabrielma...@telefonica.net Date: Sun, 14 Feb 2010 18:33:29 +0100 To: phono-l@oldcrank.org Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Cleaning a phonograph. Wax removing. My phonograph is a Spring Motor and I think it was bought in 1898 because of the record collection that was with it. Serial Number is 29251. Latches are not like the ones in the photo nor like the standard. In this spring motor, latches are automatic with (I suppouse) springs or something like springs that makes a click when you fit the lid. And a knob outside the lid, at both sides, to press for releasing. Well, that is what I think is has to be, because it lacks the latches mechanism in the lid sides. Gabriel. El 14/02/2010, a las 18:06, Curt Angstman escribió: For the latches - are you talking about the ones that slide in from the side to keep the lid on - like on a Standard? Or are you talking about an early suitcase Home which has latches like a toolbox or lunchbox? What Model is your phonograph? Curt From: gabrielma...@telefonica.net Date: Sun, 14 Feb 2010 15:34:36 +0100 To: phono-l@oldcrank.org Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Cleaning a phonograph. Wax removing. I can't help with the parts, but what do you mean by click-fitting system. Are you talking about the latches on an early Edison? Hope this helps, Thanks for your help. And YES, I am talking about latches. Excuse my poor english. I can say latches in spanish with more than twenty different words (pestillo, falleba, pasador, picaporte, cierre, fiador, resbalón, etc.) but I think I need to improve my english lexicon. When you say re-grease the spring, are you talking about open and separate the three spring cans? Gabriel. ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org _ Hotmail: Powerful Free email with security by Microsoft. http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/201469230/direct/01/ ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org _ Your E-mail and More On-the-Go. Get Windows Live Hotmail Free. http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/201469229/direct/01/ ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org
Re: [Phono-L] Cleaning a phonograph. Wax removing.
I misunderstood your description. Yes, I know about this machine, but not how to fix the latches. From: gabrielma...@telefonica.net Date: Sun, 14 Feb 2010 19:59:20 +0100 To: phono-l@oldcrank.org Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Cleaning a phonograph. Wax removing. Does it have a model number on the tag? I am assuming that this is a cylinder type Edison machine? As I have said before, it is an EDISON SPRING-MOTOR with BETTINI reproducer and recorder. Very similar to this one: http://www.coleccionfb.com/Edison-Bettini.htm Gabriel. ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org _ Hotmail: Trusted email with powerful SPAM protection. http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/201469227/direct/01/ ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org
Re: [Phono-L] Cleaning a phonograph. Wax removing.
Do you want to sell it? No. I've just bought it and want to restore. Gabriel ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org
Re: [Phono-L] Cleaning a phonograph. Wax removing.
Does it have a model number on the tag? I am assuming that this is a cylinder type Edison machine? As I have said before, it is an EDISON SPRING-MOTOR with BETTINI reproducer and recorder. Very similar to this one: http://www.coleccionfb.com/Edison-Bettini.htm Gabriel. ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org
Re: [Phono-L] Cleaning a phonograph. Wax removing.
I wish people would stop recommending WD-40 as an all-purpose lubricant. It is particularly UNSUITABLE for lubricating fine mechanisms with small parts. It was originally designed as a waterproofing agent, hence, it's name WD-40 refers to the fact that it is a water displacement product, this being the 40th attempt. It was invented in 1953, before which time plenty of other products were found quite suitable for lubrication purposes. The long-term ingredient is a VISCOUS oil that is carried by a light, highly volatile mineral oil carrier, similar to kerosene. The kerosene acts as a penetrating agent which serves to carry the heavy oil into cracks and crevices, the better to waterproof the treated object. So, yes, the kerosene performs as a penetrating oil for about 5 minutes. Then the kerosene evaporates, and you're left with the sticky oil worked into the cracks and crannies. See the description and ingredients here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WD-40 This description has fit my experience exactly. After the carrier evaporates, you've got a sticky, tacky mess left on the object you're trying to lubricate. Bad choice for small gears and pinions. I find that WD-40 is useful primarily for exactly what it was originally intended - waterproofing. And it functions as a lubricant for heavier mechanisms, although a proper oil or grease is far preferable. If you want a penetrating oil, use pure kerosene. I use an automotive product that consists of a very light volatile carrier with suspended tiny graphite particles called Part-Ease. It's particularly good for stuck rusty parts. Don't know if that brand is still available - the can I'm using is one I bought 30 years ago. Works good on exhaust manifold bolts on cars and motorcycles. If you want a proper lubricant for fine mechanisms like clocks and similar low-torque mechanisms, use a proper very light oil such as can be purchased from clock repair parts suppliers. Proper light clock oil does not dry up or get tacky. And it's available in various viscosities for light, medium, and moderately heavy torque applications. For most phonograph mechanisms, I find that ordinary 20 or 30 weight automotive motor oil works quite well. For sliding surfaces such as the reproducer bearing bar surfaces on many Edison cylinder machines, I use a mixture of 30 weight oil and a PTFE (teflon) product such as Slick 50. The PTFE provides long lasting surface penetration into the metal for superior reduction of sliding friction and stiction. Actually, I like this oil-PTFE mixture so well that I now use if for all my medium-duty lubrication needs. For very heavy torque applications such as the main bull gears of phonographs, an ordinary automotive grease is appropriate. I use a molybdenum-disulfide based grease (molly dum-dum for you motorcycle wrenches out there) for most applications. It doesn't dry out, channel, and get stiff like many lithium based greases. Greg Bogantz - Original Message - From: Curt Angstman vinyl.visi...@live.com To: phono-l@oldcrank.org Sent: Sunday, February 14, 2010 8:36 AM Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Cleaning a phonograph. Wax removing. Hi Gabriel, For basic motor cleaning, remove the motor from the machine and find a container large enough to fit it in. Fill the container with kerosene and let it soak for several days. Use a toothbrush to remove sludge from gears and small parts. Kerosene will not harm your motor and will actually lubricate it. When you are through, you need to re-grease the spring, if possible. Grease will continue to leak from the motor for awhile, since the kerosene dissolves it, so you will want to put a rag under it after it is re-installed. I also use WD 40 and spray lithium grease to re-lube the motor. WD 40 also will remove crud from the wood cabinet or painted surfaces without harming the finish - I use it on my BMW to remove tar, etc. It's a great product and has many uses, like removing sticker glue, tar and grease. It is also wonderful for re-energizing the paint on a horn. On black horns, I touch up scratches with a Sharpie marker and/or liquid gun bluing (gun bluing works great to age metal parts) and then clean the horn with WD 40. On painted or flowered horns, it cleans and deepens the colors. Neither kerosene or WD 40 will harm painted or nickel finished parts. WD 40 also restores and cleans 78 records and Amberol cylinders. Some people will disagree with that, but take a dirty, scratchy 78 record and try it - it will improve the sound and make it look better - and absolutely NO damage to the record - spray it on and wipe it off. I have used this method for over 30 years and have never had any damage to my records. It will not dissolve 78 rpm records or celluloid, but DO NOT use it on wax cylinders!!! I can't help with the parts, but what do you mean by click-fitting system. Are you talking about the latches
Re: [Phono-L] Cleaning a phonograph. Wax removing/serial#
In a message dated 2/14/2010 5:00:01 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, writes: My phonograph is a Spring Motor and I think it was bought in 1898 because of the record collection that was with it. Serial Number is 29251. That serial number seems more like the year 1900. Bettini items were indeed being sold in Spain at that time. The aluminum diaphragms on the reproducers were very thin and fragile, but they gave excellent results when new. Allen _www.phonobooks.com_ (http://www.phonobooks.com) ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org
Re: [Phono-L] Cleaning a phonograph. Wax removing.
I always soak the springs until the dried grease and graphite are easily removed. I remove the springs, wipe them down and make sure they are clean and have no cracks, then I reinstall them greasing as I go. That is the best job because you ensure reliability. From: vinyl.visi...@live.com To: phono-l@oldcrank.org Date: Sun, 14 Feb 2010 12:03:14 -0500 Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Cleaning a phonograph. Wax removing. Yes, if you want the best job, you have to open the spring barrels - don't remove the springs - and pack some grease around the springs. Any good grease will work. It will keep the sprinngs from clunking and making noise when playing. Curt From: gabrielma...@telefonica.net Date: Sun, 14 Feb 2010 15:34:36 +0100 To: phono-l@oldcrank.org Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Cleaning a phonograph. Wax removing. I can't help with the parts, but what do you mean by click-fitting system. Are you talking about the latches on an early Edison? Hope this helps, Thanks for your help. And YES, I am talking about latches. Excuse my poor english. I can say latches in spanish with more than twenty different words (pestillo, falleba, pasador, picaporte, cierre, fiador, resbalón, etc.) but I think I need to improve my english lexicon. When you say re-grease the spring, are you talking about open and separate the three spring cans? Gabriel. ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org _ Your E-mail and More On-the-Go. Get Windows Live Hotmail Free. http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/201469229/direct/01/ ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org
Re: [Phono-L] Cleaning a phonograph. Wax removing.
This is a serial number for a late Spring Motor machine and likely the only reference to this on the machine would be the plate on the front with Spring Motor For Phonograph in front of the mandrel. The Spring Motor machines have a nickel plated brass button which is held in place by a T shaped spring on the inside of the lid. Not very safe for carrying, but OK to hold the lid in place. These can be made. Mike Tucker - Original Message - From: Curt Angstman vinyl.visi...@live.com To: phono-l@oldcrank.org Sent: Monday, February 15, 2010 5:51 AM Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Cleaning a phonograph. Wax removing. Does it have a model number on the tag? I am assuming that this is a cylinder type Edison machine? From: gabrielma...@telefonica.net Date: Sun, 14 Feb 2010 18:33:29 +0100 To: phono-l@oldcrank.org Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Cleaning a phonograph. Wax removing. My phonograph is a Spring Motor and I think it was bought in 1898 because of the record collection that was with it. Serial Number is 29251. Latches are not like the ones in the photo nor like the standard. In this spring motor, latches are automatic with (I suppouse) springs or something like springs that makes a click when you fit the lid. And a knob outside the lid, at both sides, to press for releasing. Well, that is what I think is has to be, because it lacks the latches mechanism in the lid sides. Gabriel. El 14/02/2010, a las 18:06, Curt Angstman escribió: For the latches - are you talking about the ones that slide in from the side to keep the lid on - like on a Standard? Or are you talking about an early suitcase Home which has latches like a toolbox or lunchbox? What Model is your phonograph? Curt From: gabrielma...@telefonica.net Date: Sun, 14 Feb 2010 15:34:36 +0100 To: phono-l@oldcrank.org Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Cleaning a phonograph. Wax removing. I can't help with the parts, but what do you mean by click-fitting system. Are you talking about the latches on an early Edison? Hope this helps, Thanks for your help. And YES, I am talking about latches. Excuse my poor english. I can say latches in spanish with more than twenty different words (pestillo, falleba, pasador, picaporte, cierre, fiador, resbalón, etc.) but I think I need to improve my english lexicon. When you say re-grease the spring, are you talking about open and separate the three spring cans? Gabriel. ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org _ Hotmail: Powerful Free email with security by Microsoft. http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/201469230/direct/01/ ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org _ Your E-mail and More On-the-Go. Get Windows Live Hotmail Free. http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/201469229/direct/01/ ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org
Re: [Phono-L] Cleaning a phonograph. Wax removing.
The Spring Motor lid latch, one on each end is basically a flat spring screwed to the inside of the case with a button that is inserted from the outside and riveted to the spring so it can be pressed in to release the latch. Gabriel Marro wrote: Do you want to sell it? No. I've just bought it and want to restore. Gabriel ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org
Re: [Phono-L] Cleaning a phonograph. Wax removing.
Hello Greg, I cannot agree more. I put a spring in a plastic bag with WD-40 for long term storage and the spring rusted. WD-40 does nothing to help removing old grease and gasoline actually make it harder to remove. Molybdenum-disulfide performs the same function as graphite without the abrasive qualities of the graphite. Steve From: gbogan...@charter.net To: phono-l@oldcrank.org Date: Sun, 14 Feb 2010 15:17:17 -0500 Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Cleaning a phonograph. Wax removing. I wish people would stop recommending WD-40 as an all-purpose lubricant. It is particularly UNSUITABLE for lubricating fine mechanisms with small parts. It was originally designed as a waterproofing agent, hence, it's name WD-40 refers to the fact that it is a water displacement product, this being the 40th attempt. It was invented in 1953, before which time plenty of other products were found quite suitable for lubrication purposes. The long-term ingredient is a VISCOUS oil that is carried by a light, highly volatile mineral oil carrier, similar to kerosene. The kerosene acts as a penetrating agent which serves to carry the heavy oil into cracks and crevices, the better to waterproof the treated object. So, yes, the kerosene performs as a penetrating oil for about 5 minutes. Then the kerosene evaporates, and you're left with the sticky oil worked into the cracks and crannies. See the description and ingredients here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WD-40 This description has fit my experience exactly. After the carrier evaporates, you've got a sticky, tacky mess left on the object you're trying to lubricate. Bad choice for small gears and pinions. I find that WD-40 is useful primarily for exactly what it was originally intended - waterproofing. And it functions as a lubricant for heavier mechanisms, although a proper oil or grease is far preferable. If you want a penetrating oil, use pure kerosene. I use an automotive product that consists of a very light volatile carrier with suspended tiny graphite particles called Part-Ease. It's particularly good for stuck rusty parts. Don't know if that brand is still available - the can I'm using is one I bought 30 years ago. Works good on exhaust manifold bolts on cars and motorcycles. If you want a proper lubricant for fine mechanisms like clocks and similar low-torque mechanisms, use a proper very light oil such as can be purchased from clock repair parts suppliers. Proper light clock oil does not dry up or get tacky. And it's available in various viscosities for light, medium, and moderately heavy torque applications. For most phonograph mechanisms, I find that ordinary 20 or 30 weight automotive motor oil works quite well. For sliding surfaces such as the reproducer bearing bar surfaces on many Edison cylinder machines, I use a mixture of 30 weight oil and a PTFE (teflon) product such as Slick 50. The PTFE provides long lasting surface penetration into the metal for superior reduction of sliding friction and stiction. Actually, I like this oil-PTFE mixture so well that I now use if for all my medium-duty lubrication needs. For very heavy torque applications such as the main bull gears of phonographs, an ordinary automotive grease is appropriate. I use a molybdenum-disulfide based grease (molly dum-dum for you motorcycle wrenches out there) for most applications. It doesn't dry out, channel, and get stiff like many lithium based greases. Greg Bogantz - Original Message - From: Curt Angstman vinyl.visi...@live.com To: phono-l@oldcrank.org Sent: Sunday, February 14, 2010 8:36 AM Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Cleaning a phonograph. Wax removing. Hi Gabriel, For basic motor cleaning, remove the motor from the machine and find a container large enough to fit it in. Fill the container with kerosene and let it soak for several days. Use a toothbrush to remove sludge from gears and small parts. Kerosene will not harm your motor and will actually lubricate it. When you are through, you need to re-grease the spring, if possible. Grease will continue to leak from the motor for awhile, since the kerosene dissolves it, so you will want to put a rag under it after it is re-installed. I also use WD 40 and spray lithium grease to re-lube the motor. WD 40 also will remove crud from the wood cabinet or painted surfaces without harming the finish - I use it on my BMW to remove tar, etc. It's a great product and has many uses, like removing sticker glue, tar and grease. It is also wonderful for re-energizing the paint on a horn. On black horns, I touch up scratches with a Sharpie marker and/or liquid gun bluing (gun bluing works great to age metal parts) and then clean the horn with WD 40. On painted or flowered horns, it cleans and deepens the colors. Neither kerosene or WD 40 will harm painted or nickel finished parts
Re: [Phono-L] Cleaning a phonograph. Wax removing.
Gabriel; This is the entire latch assembly. The T bar piece is the latch and the spring presses it out into engagement with the base. The button passes through the side of the case and is then riveted to the T bar latch. -- ATTACHMENT -- **An Attachment Was Scrubbed** Name: SM_latch-1.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 115332 bytes URL: http://oldcrank.org/pipermail/phono-l/attachments/20100214/4709ea4d/attachment.jpg ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org
Re: [Phono-L] Cleaning a phonograph. Wax removing.
Thank you very much. Then I think in the drawer of the phonograph are parts for one side. I have to find for the other side. Thanks again, Gabriel El 15/02/2010, a las 00:12, Rich escribió: Gabriel; This is the entire latch assembly. The T bar piece is the latch and the spring presses it out into engagement with the base. The button passes through the side of the case and is then riveted to the T bar latch. -- ATTACHMENT -- **An Attachment Was Scrubbed** Name: SM_latch-1.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 115332 bytes URL: http://oldcrank.org/pipermail/phono-l/attachments/20100214/4709ea4d/attachment.jpg ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org
Re: [Phono-L] Cleaning a phonograph. Wax removing.
Or powdered mica, which is much easier to get a hold of. If the original graphite and Vaseline has oxidized to a lumpy solid it must be removed from the spring by mechanical means. Or the use of chemical solvents that are no longer available. Steven Medved wrote: Hello Greg, I cannot agree more. I put a spring in a plastic bag with WD-40 for long term storage and the spring rusted. WD-40 does nothing to help removing old grease and gasoline actually make it harder to remove. Molybdenum-disulfide performs the same function as graphite without the abrasive qualities of the graphite. Steve ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org
Re: [Phono-L] Cleaning a phonograph. Wax removing.
This is another view of the entire assembly. If you have one of them then just about anyone can make a clone. Beware that the latch really does not work so never pick the machine up by the cover handle as they tend to unlatch without warning while the machine is far from the floor. Gabriel Marro wrote: Thank you very much. Then I think in the drawer of the phonograph are parts for one side. I have to find for the other side. Thanks again, Gabriel El 15/02/2010, a las 00:12, Rich escribió: Gabriel; This is the entire latch assembly. The T bar piece is the latch and the spring presses it out into engagement with the base. The button passes through the side of the case and is then riveted to the T bar latch. -- ATTACHMENT -- **An Attachment Was Scrubbed** Name: SM_latch-1.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 115332 bytes URL: http://oldcrank.org/pipermail/phono-l/attachments/20100214/4709ea4d/attachment.jpg ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org -- ATTACHMENT -- **An Attachment Was Scrubbed** Name: SM_Latch-2.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 41926 bytes URL: http://oldcrank.org/pipermail/phono-l/attachments/20100214/465c7686/attachment.jpg ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org
