Re: [PHP] Reminder On Mailing List Rules
At 11:23 PM -0400 10/24/10, Paul M Foster wrote: On Fri, Oct 22, 2010 at 12:35:43PM -0400, tedd wrote: At 4:54 PM -0400 10/21/10, Marc Guay wrote: Toilet seat. Up or down. Same thing? Sort of. No, everything down (seat and top) is the rule in my house. You should see how women often react when I tell them to put the top down -- it's like my dog hearing a high note. I used to do that just to aggravate women who hassled me about leaving the seat up. I've softened a bit in my old age, and no longer insist on it. Paul You sit down now? Cheers, tedd -- --- http://sperling.com/ -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] Reminder On Mailing List Rules
On Fri, Oct 22, 2010 at 12:35:43PM -0400, tedd wrote: At 4:54 PM -0400 10/21/10, Marc Guay wrote: Toilet seat. Up or down. Same thing? Sort of. No, everything down (seat and top) is the rule in my house. You should see how women often react when I tell them to put the top down -- it's like my dog hearing a high note. I used to do that just to aggravate women who hassled me about leaving the seat up. I've softened a bit in my old age, and no longer insist on it. Paul -- Paul M. Foster -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] Reminder On Mailing List Rules
On Thu, 21 Oct 2010 16:30:03 +0100, Ashley Sheridan a...@ashleysheridan.co.uk wrote: On Thu, 2010-10-21 at 10:25 -0400, Daniel Brown wrote: Hey, Folks; Just a gentle reminder after watching things get worse by the day: it is one of the rules of this and all official php.net mailing lists that you must not top-post. For anyone wondering just one of the reasons why we have this rule in effect, tab through this thread in the archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/php-general@lists.php.net/msg262390.html See how disastrous and headache-inducing it looks? You wouldn't put code together looking like spaghetti thrown at a wall and smashed into the carpet, especially knowing your clients and peers would see it, would you? It's a very similar situation here: your every word is being recorded in literally hundreds of places simultaneously, preserved as educational and professional reference material for current and future developers --- and not just in the PHP programming language, but in computer programming in general, as theories lend themselves to apply to other situations as well. Many of you take the time out of your busy schedules to voluntarily impart knowledge on people of varying degrees of skills and abilities, which is beyond commendable; so why not take just a couple of extra seconds to show pride in your participation, lead by example, and continue to set the bar high, rather than simply settling for the quickest Twitter-like R/T to a post? ;-P The ultimate goal here isn't to start a flame war (or even any further discussion on the subject for that matter), but to point out that this is a RULE of the official community here, not a PREFERENCE. P.S. - Those of you who have been around for years will likely recall with some fondness the level of respect, participation, and quality of discussions this list once had; the degree of mutual respect and camaraderie was palpable. If you're wondering if those days have really diminished into little more than granular memory, it's not just you --- check the following graph for some rather disturbing evidence: http://dir.gmane.org/gmane.comp.php.general -- /Daniel P. Brown Network Infrastructure Manager Documentation, Webmaster Teams http://www.php.net/ I always bottom post when I'm replying from my computer, but when on the move or at work, I'm only left with my Android, and the default email client doesn't allow reply positioning of any sort, so it's always top-posting :( Does anyone know of any decent email clients for Android that allow bottom posting that you maybe use or have had experience with? I use the K-9 mail client on Android. When replying you can edit the quoted message and do bottom posting. Not so convenient as using Thunderbird or Evolution. But it works! Thanks, Ash http://www.ashleysheridan.co.uk -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] Reminder On Mailing List Rules
PHP is basically the only language I deal with any more - and it's the only language I -want- to deal with. I hate to see basic semantics such as top post you asshole scare off fresh blood and create a hostile or otherwise discriminatory environment. Keep PHP alive and well, at least until I retire. Don't let it die like Perl has! (ha, ha) Hear, hear! I've got to say, the knowledge present on this list has been amazingly useful to me, but the rudeness -- come out in force in this thread -- really makes me question remaining a member. There are already a few people on the list whose posts I just glance at to see if there's code, and skip if there's not. I know it's pretty common for programming lists to get rude, but it's always seemed pretty unnecessary to me. So far, on this list, the balance is still favoring the value of the knowledge here, but it's been a close thing a few times in the last week. -Andy -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
RE: [PHP] Reminder On Mailing List Rules
[snip] really makes me question remaining a member...it's been a close thing a few times in the last week. [/snip] $door = new door(large, heavy, swift); $door-open(); $door-hitArse(); $door-close(); C'mon, the rudeness out weighs the good of this list? -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] Reminder On Mailing List Rules
On Fri, Oct 22, 2010 at 9:22 AM, Jay Blanchard jblanch...@pocket.com wrote: [snip] really makes me question remaining a member...it's been a close thing a few times in the last week. [/snip] $door = new door(large, heavy, swift); $door-open(); $door-hitArse(); $door-close(); C'mon, the rudeness out weighs the good of this list? -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php Maybe its been a stressful week for all. I know mine has been. Its Friday, let's relax, take a breath and get back to what we all love, PHP! -- Bastien Cat, the other other white meat -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] Reminder On Mailing List Rules
On Fri, Oct 22, 2010 at 9:22 AM, Jay Blanchard jblanch...@pocket.com wrote: [snip] really makes me question remaining a member...it's been a close thing a few times in the last week. [/snip] $door = new door(large, heavy, swift); $door-open(); $door-hitArse(); $door-close(); C'mon, the rudeness out weighs the good of this list? Not yet, as I said. But there've been a couple items in the last week that made me wonder. -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] Reminder On Mailing List Rules
At 10:47 AM -0400 10/21/10, Daniel Brown wrote: On Thu, Oct 21, 2010 at 10:41, Robert Cummings rob...@interjinn.com wrote: I can't speak for everyone here (or who is no longer here)... but my posts have dwindled significantly due to work and family time constraints :| Same here, but isn't it a bit eerie that many of us hit that same point almost simultaneously? Richard Lynch, Lester Caine, Jochem Maas, Jim Lucas, the Nathans (Rixham and Nobbe), yourself, myself - even Tedd Sperling and Jason Pruim, among many others - seemed to all fall off the face of the virtual earth at about the same moment. Then again, I suppose that's how generations work. -- /Daniel P. Brown Part of my falling off the list recently was that my computer catered. The problem was the communication link between the router and my main computer became extremely slow. For example, download speed was around 3M and upload speed was non-existent -- my computer would simply hang and not receive anything. Additionally, it was only my main computer that experienced this problem while other computers in my office worked normally. All the experts I contacted/paid were not able to resolve the problem. So, I changed over to a newer computer (Intel Mac Pro) and my download speed is now around 20M and upload speed at 4M. Everything works sweet now, but it has taken time/money for me to get everything back to working properly. Couple this problem with client demands and I'm surprised I have any time to do anything. Cheers, tedd -- --- http://sperling.com/ -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] Reminder On Mailing List Rules
At 12:24 PM -0400 10/21/10, Paul M Foster wrote: I dropped off a bit because I (rightfully) got boxed around when I made some incorrect statements regarding obscure HTML/PHP points. I thought, maybe I should shut up and just listen until I know more. Paul Paul: IMO, that's not a good reason to stop posting -- I'm always making a fool of myself. That's just another way to learn. Cheers, tedd -- --- http://sperling.com/ -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] Reminder On Mailing List Rules
At 6:05 PM +0100 10/21/10, Ashley Sheridan wrote: And thanks for remembering I'm a guy, been called a girl on this list more than once! :p Thanks, Ash You're not! :-) Cheers, tedd -- --- http://sperling.com/ -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
RE: [PHP] Reminder On Mailing List Rules
At 3:01 PM -0500 10/21/10, Jay Blanchard wrote: [snip] Orwellian! [/snip] Nazi's did it! Why? Top posting is bad! I read some place that the first one to mention Nazi's lose the argument. Cheers, tedd -- --- http://sperling.com/ -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] Reminder On Mailing List Rules
At 4:54 PM -0400 10/21/10, Marc Guay wrote: Toilet seat. Up or down. Same thing? Sort of. No, everything down (seat and top) is the rule in my house. You should see how women often react when I tell them to put the top down -- it's like my dog hearing a high note. Cheers, tedd -- --- http://sperling.com/ -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] Reminder On Mailing List Rules
On 22 October 2010 13:59, Andy McKenzie amckenz...@gmail.com wrote: There are already a few people on the list whose posts I just glance at to see if there's code, and skip if there's not. ?php echo 'Have I been skipped?', PHP_EOL; ? -- Richard Quadling Twitter : EE : Zend @RQuadling : e-e.com/M_248814.html : bit.ly/9O8vFY -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] Reminder On Mailing List Rules
On 22 October 2010 17:35, tedd tedd.sperl...@gmail.com wrote: At 3:01 PM -0500 10/21/10, Jay Blanchard wrote: [snip] Orwellian! [/snip] Nazi's did it! Why? Top posting is bad! I read some place that the first one to mention Nazi's lose the argument. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin's_Law -- Richard Quadling Twitter : EE : Zend @RQuadling : e-e.com/M_248814.html : bit.ly/9O8vFY -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
RE: [PHP] Reminder On Mailing List Rules
[snip] I read some place that the first one to mention Nazi's lose the argument. [/snip] Nah, it is just proof of, as mentioned before, Godwin's Law (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin%27s_law) -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] Reminder On Mailing List Rules
On Fri, Oct 22, 2010 at 12:46 PM, Jay Blanchard jblanch...@pocket.com wrote: [snip] I read some place that the first one to mention Nazi's lose the argument. [/snip] Nah, it is just proof of, as mentioned before, Godwin's Law (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin%27s_law) -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php Watch our previous prime minister explain proof http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aX6XMIldkRUfeature=related -- Bastien Cat, the other other white meat -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
[PHP] Reminder On Mailing List Rules
Hey, Folks; Just a gentle reminder after watching things get worse by the day: it is one of the rules of this and all official php.net mailing lists that you must not top-post. For anyone wondering just one of the reasons why we have this rule in effect, tab through this thread in the archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/php-general@lists.php.net/msg262390.html See how disastrous and headache-inducing it looks? You wouldn't put code together looking like spaghetti thrown at a wall and smashed into the carpet, especially knowing your clients and peers would see it, would you? It's a very similar situation here: your every word is being recorded in literally hundreds of places simultaneously, preserved as educational and professional reference material for current and future developers --- and not just in the PHP programming language, but in computer programming in general, as theories lend themselves to apply to other situations as well. Many of you take the time out of your busy schedules to voluntarily impart knowledge on people of varying degrees of skills and abilities, which is beyond commendable; so why not take just a couple of extra seconds to show pride in your participation, lead by example, and continue to set the bar high, rather than simply settling for the quickest Twitter-like R/T to a post? ;-P The ultimate goal here isn't to start a flame war (or even any further discussion on the subject for that matter), but to point out that this is a RULE of the official community here, not a PREFERENCE. P.S. - Those of you who have been around for years will likely recall with some fondness the level of respect, participation, and quality of discussions this list once had; the degree of mutual respect and camaraderie was palpable. If you're wondering if those days have really diminished into little more than granular memory, it's not just you --- check the following graph for some rather disturbing evidence: http://dir.gmane.org/gmane.comp.php.general -- /Daniel P. Brown Network Infrastructure Manager Documentation, Webmaster Teams http://www.php.net/ -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] Reminder On Mailing List Rules
On Thu, 2010-10-21 at 10:25 -0400, Daniel Brown wrote: Hey, Folks; Just a gentle reminder after watching things get worse by the day: it is one of the rules of this and all official php.net mailing lists that you must not top-post. For anyone wondering just one of the reasons why we have this rule in effect, tab through this thread in the archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/php-general@lists.php.net/msg262390.html See how disastrous and headache-inducing it looks? You wouldn't put code together looking like spaghetti thrown at a wall and smashed into the carpet, especially knowing your clients and peers would see it, would you? It's a very similar situation here: your every word is being recorded in literally hundreds of places simultaneously, preserved as educational and professional reference material for current and future developers --- and not just in the PHP programming language, but in computer programming in general, as theories lend themselves to apply to other situations as well. Many of you take the time out of your busy schedules to voluntarily impart knowledge on people of varying degrees of skills and abilities, which is beyond commendable; so why not take just a couple of extra seconds to show pride in your participation, lead by example, and continue to set the bar high, rather than simply settling for the quickest Twitter-like R/T to a post? ;-P The ultimate goal here isn't to start a flame war (or even any further discussion on the subject for that matter), but to point out that this is a RULE of the official community here, not a PREFERENCE. P.S. - Those of you who have been around for years will likely recall with some fondness the level of respect, participation, and quality of discussions this list once had; the degree of mutual respect and camaraderie was palpable. If you're wondering if those days have really diminished into little more than granular memory, it's not just you --- check the following graph for some rather disturbing evidence: http://dir.gmane.org/gmane.comp.php.general -- /Daniel P. Brown Network Infrastructure Manager Documentation, Webmaster Teams http://www.php.net/ I always bottom post when I'm replying from my computer, but when on the move or at work, I'm only left with my Android, and the default email client doesn't allow reply positioning of any sort, so it's always top-posting :( Does anyone know of any decent email clients for Android that allow bottom posting that you maybe use or have had experience with? Thanks, Ash http://www.ashleysheridan.co.uk
Re: [PHP] Reminder On Mailing List Rules
On Thu, Oct 21, 2010 at 11:30 AM, Ashley Sheridan a...@ashleysheridan.co.uk wrote: On Thu, 2010-10-21 at 10:25 -0400, Daniel Brown wrote: Hey, Folks; Just a gentle reminder after watching things get worse by the day: it is one of the rules of this and all official php.net mailing lists that you must not top-post. For anyone wondering just one of the reasons why we have this rule in effect, tab through this thread in the archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/php-general@lists.php.net/msg262390.html See how disastrous and headache-inducing it looks? You wouldn't put code together looking like spaghetti thrown at a wall and smashed into the carpet, especially knowing your clients and peers would see it, would you? It's a very similar situation here: your every word is being recorded in literally hundreds of places simultaneously, preserved as educational and professional reference material for current and future developers --- and not just in the PHP programming language, but in computer programming in general, as theories lend themselves to apply to other situations as well. Many of you take the time out of your busy schedules to voluntarily impart knowledge on people of varying degrees of skills and abilities, which is beyond commendable; so why not take just a couple of extra seconds to show pride in your participation, lead by example, and continue to set the bar high, rather than simply settling for the quickest Twitter-like R/T to a post? ;-P The ultimate goal here isn't to start a flame war (or even any further discussion on the subject for that matter), but to point out that this is a RULE of the official community here, not a PREFERENCE. P.S. - Those of you who have been around for years will likely recall with some fondness the level of respect, participation, and quality of discussions this list once had; the degree of mutual respect and camaraderie was palpable. If you're wondering if those days have really diminished into little more than granular memory, it's not just you --- check the following graph for some rather disturbing evidence: http://dir.gmane.org/gmane.comp.php.general -- /Daniel P. Brown Network Infrastructure Manager Documentation, Webmaster Teams http://www.php.net/ I always bottom post when I'm replying from my computer, but when on the move or at work, I'm only left with my Android, and the default email client doesn't allow reply positioning of any sort, so it's always top-posting :( Does anyone know of any decent email clients for Android that allow bottom posting that you maybe use or have had experience with? Thanks, Ash http://www.ashleysheridan.co.uk iphone has the same problem. Cutting and pasting is the only way that i have of dealing with it...and I do try to accommodate that when i can -- Bastien Cat, the other other white meat -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] Reminder On Mailing List Rules
On Thu, Oct 21, 2010 at 11:30, Ashley Sheridan a...@ashleysheridan.co.uk wrote: I always bottom post when I'm replying from my computer, but when on the move or at work, I'm only left with my Android, and the default email client doesn't allow reply positioning of any sort, so it's always top-posting :( Does anyone know of any decent email clients for Android that allow bottom posting that you maybe use or have had experience with? You know, that's a great question, Ash. One of the first things I did on my DROID was to create a quick one-line signature begging forgiveness if it threw the formatting off or top-posted on a list[1]. While some may argue that it falls under the posting can wait rule, I don't personally interpret that to mean the same thing, because that rule was effected due to heated arguments and troll-fueled rifts. However, that said, in all but the rarest of circumstances - for the reason of formatting and lack of options to place the cursor in email replies on Android - I do generally wait. Primarily because I don't want to be the jackass who points out the rules, then essentially says, do as I say, not as I do. ;-P ^1: http://www.mail-archive.com/php-general@lists.php.net/msg261584.html -- /Daniel P. Brown Network Infrastructure Manager Documentation, Webmaster Teams http://www.php.net/ -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] Reminder On Mailing List Rules
On Thu, 2010-10-21 at 10:37 -0400, Daniel Brown wrote: On Thu, Oct 21, 2010 at 11:30, Ashley Sheridan a...@ashleysheridan.co.uk wrote: I always bottom post when I'm replying from my computer, but when on the move or at work, I'm only left with my Android, and the default email client doesn't allow reply positioning of any sort, so it's always top-posting :( Does anyone know of any decent email clients for Android that allow bottom posting that you maybe use or have had experience with? You know, that's a great question, Ash. One of the first things I did on my DROID was to create a quick one-line signature begging forgiveness if it threw the formatting off or top-posted on a list[1]. While some may argue that it falls under the posting can wait rule, I don't personally interpret that to mean the same thing, because that rule was effected due to heated arguments and troll-fueled rifts. However, that said, in all but the rarest of circumstances - for the reason of formatting and lack of options to place the cursor in email replies on Android - I do generally wait. Primarily because I don't want to be the jackass who points out the rules, then essentially says, do as I say, not as I do. ;-P ^1: http://www.mail-archive.com/php-general@lists.php.net/msg261584.html -- /Daniel P. Brown Network Infrastructure Manager Documentation, Webmaster Teams http://www.php.net/ Yeah, I'll have a bit of a look online, and see if I can find anything. Hopefully the mobile version of Evolution will make it to Android soon! Thanks, Ash http://www.ashleysheridan.co.uk
Re: [PHP] Reminder On Mailing List Rules
On Thu, Oct 21, 2010 at 10:34, Bastien Koert phps...@gmail.com wrote: iphone has the same problem. Cutting and pasting is the only way that i have of dealing with it...and I do try to accommodate that when i can I wonder if we have any lurking iPhone and/or Android app developers here who would be willing to put together a small client that is (a) specifically for list posting, always posting to the bottom; (b) more full-featured and allows you to place the cursor at any point(s) throughout the message; or (c) allows you to set the default cursor position - top or bottom - when replying to messages. -- /Daniel P. Brown Network Infrastructure Manager Documentation, Webmaster Teams http://www.php.net/ -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] Reminder On Mailing List Rules
On 10-10-21 10:25 AM, Daniel Brown wrote: P.S. - Those of you who have been around for years will likely recall with some fondness the level of respect, participation, and quality of discussions this list once had; the degree of mutual respect and camaraderie was palpable. If you're wondering if those days have really diminished into little more than granular memory, it's not just you --- check the following graph for some rather disturbing evidence: http://dir.gmane.org/gmane.comp.php.general I can't speak for everyone here (or who is no longer here)... but my posts have dwindled significantly due to work and family time constraints :| Cheers, Rob. -- E-Mail Disclaimer: Information contained in this message and any attached documents is considered confidential and legally protected. This message is intended solely for the addressee(s). Disclosure, copying, and distribution are prohibited unless authorized. -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] Reminder On Mailing List Rules
On Thu, Oct 21, 2010 at 10:41, Robert Cummings rob...@interjinn.com wrote: I can't speak for everyone here (or who is no longer here)... but my posts have dwindled significantly due to work and family time constraints :| Same here, but isn't it a bit eerie that many of us hit that same point almost simultaneously? Richard Lynch, Lester Caine, Jochem Maas, Jim Lucas, the Nathans (Rixham and Nobbe), yourself, myself - even Tedd Sperling and Jason Pruim, among many others - seemed to all fall off the face of the virtual earth at about the same moment. Then again, I suppose that's how generations work. -- /Daniel P. Brown Network Infrastructure Manager Documentation, Webmaster Teams http://www.php.net/ -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] Reminder On Mailing List Rules
On Thu, Oct 21, 2010 at 10:47 AM, Daniel Brown danbr...@php.net wrote: On Thu, Oct 21, 2010 at 10:41, Robert Cummings rob...@interjinn.com wrote: I can't speak for everyone here (or who is no longer here)... but my posts have dwindled significantly due to work and family time constraints :| Same here, but isn't it a bit eerie that many of us hit that same point almost simultaneously? Richard Lynch, Lester Caine, Jochem Maas, Jim Lucas, the Nathans (Rixham and Nobbe), yourself, myself - even Tedd Sperling and Jason Pruim, among many others - seemed to all fall off the face of the virtual earth at about the same moment. Then again, I suppose that's how generations work. -- /Daniel P. Brown Network Infrastructure Manager Documentation, Webmaster Teams http://www.php.net/ -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php Parenting ruins everything ;-) -- Bastien Cat, the other other white meat -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] Reminder On Mailing List Rules
On 21 October 2010 15:53, Bastien Koert phps...@gmail.com wrote: Parenting ruins everything ;-) Ideally, yes. -- Richard Quadling Twitter : EE : Zend @RQuadling : e-e.com/M_248814.html : bit.ly/9O8vFY -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
RE: [PHP] Reminder On Mailing List Rules
[snip] . [/snip] Fondly remembers mailing list guidelines that used to go out about once a week when someone would send them, including the section that said something to the effect of; Why? Top posting is bad! -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] Reminder On Mailing List Rules
On Thu, Oct 21, 2010 at 04:30:03PM +0100, Ashley Sheridan wrote: [snip] I always bottom post when I'm replying from my computer, but when on the move or at work, I'm only left with my Android, and the default email client doesn't allow reply positioning of any sort, so it's always top-posting :( Does anyone know of any decent email clients for Android that allow bottom posting that you maybe use or have had experience with? Please excuse my ignorance; I don't use a phone for email. When you reply to email in the Android, 1. Do you see the text of the email you're replying to? 2. Can you edit the text of the email you're replying to? 3. Can you move the cursor on the screen; are there keys which allow this? 4. Is the inability to reposition the cursor the fault of the application, or the phone itself? 5. To what extent do other smartphones share these characteristics? Paul -- Paul M. Foster -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] Reminder On Mailing List Rules
On Oct 21, 2010, at 10:47 AM, Daniel Brown danbr...@php.net wrote: On Thu, Oct 21, 2010 at 10:41, Robert Cummings rob...@interjinn.com wrote: I can't speak for everyone here (or who is no longer here)... but my posts have dwindled significantly due to work and family time constraints :| Same here, but isn't it a bit eerie that many of us hit that same point almost simultaneously? Richard Lynch, Lester Caine, Jochem Maas, Jim Lucas, the Nathans (Rixham and Nobbe), yourself, myself - even Tedd Sperling and Jason Pruim, among many others - seemed to all fall off the face of the virtual earth at about the same moment. Then again, I suppose that's how generations work. I know I disappeared but it involved a move across country. :) Also... For anyone with an iPhone/iPod touch you can post how ever you want from it just like normal. The only thing that can not be moved is your signature but the rest is moveable. For that is how I did this reply... All typed in the exact place you see it. Hoping to be able to contribute more though in the near future. -- /Daniel P. Brown Network Infrastructure Manager Documentation, Webmaster Teams http://www.php.net/ -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] Reminder On Mailing List Rules
On Thu, Oct 21, 2010 at 8:47 AM, Daniel Brown danbr...@php.net wrote: On Thu, Oct 21, 2010 at 10:41, Robert Cummings rob...@interjinn.com wrote: I can't speak for everyone here (or who is no longer here)... but my posts have dwindled significantly due to work and family time constraints :| Same here, but isn't it a bit eerie that many of us hit that same point almost simultaneously? Richard Lynch, Lester Caine, Jochem Maas, Jim Lucas, the Nathans (Rixham and Nobbe), yourself, myself - even Tedd Sperling and Jason Pruim, among many others - seemed to all fall off the face of the virtual earth at about the same moment. Then again, I suppose that's how generations work. It might be a bit selfish Dan, and I'll admit that, but when I was posting aggressively I was looking to really boost my PHP skills. Frankly I think this list was a major contributor to rapid success in the industry, and I always tell fellow developers to join the list if they're looking for a similar boost. Just for the record, my #1 favorite thread was the argument about php4 vs 5 oo, when Tony Marsten and I were going at it tooth and nail and Rob showed how to change the value of a private member variable via serialization - EPIC! Dan I also remember when you were sending the tally of weekly posts per contributor at the end of each week, which I think spurred activity for some time. I still hop on threads from time to time, just a lot more picky about which ones any more. ducks -nathan
Re: [PHP] Reminder On Mailing List Rules
On Thu, Oct 21, 2010 at 10:47:53AM -0400, Daniel Brown wrote: On Thu, Oct 21, 2010 at 10:41, Robert Cummings rob...@interjinn.com wrote: I can't speak for everyone here (or who is no longer here)... but my posts have dwindled significantly due to work and family time constraints :| Same here, but isn't it a bit eerie that many of us hit that same point almost simultaneously? Richard Lynch, Lester Caine, Jochem Maas, Jim Lucas, the Nathans (Rixham and Nobbe), yourself, myself - even Tedd Sperling and Jason Pruim, among many others - seemed to all fall off the face of the virtual earth at about the same moment. Then again, I suppose that's how generations work. Here's something else eerie-- I don't think that Ashley Sheridan guy has slowed down at all. ;-} Paul -- Paul M. Foster -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
RE: [PHP] Reminder On Mailing List Rules
[snip] I still hop on threads from time to time, just a lot more picky about which ones any more. ducks [/snip] I seem to go through phases, but I always read. I had gotten away from everyday coding due to work needs (leading a team of PHP'ers) but have always tried to keep learning. I may have the opportunity to be a lot more hands-on in the coming months though and I suspect that might lead me to be more active on the list. -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] Reminder On Mailing List Rules
On Thu, Oct 21, 2010 at 09:37:16AM -0600, Nathan Nobbe wrote: On Thu, Oct 21, 2010 at 8:47 AM, Daniel Brown danbr...@php.net wrote: On Thu, Oct 21, 2010 at 10:41, Robert Cummings rob...@interjinn.com wrote: I can't speak for everyone here (or who is no longer here)... but my posts have dwindled significantly due to work and family time constraints :| Same here, but isn't it a bit eerie that many of us hit that same point almost simultaneously? Richard Lynch, Lester Caine, Jochem Maas, Jim Lucas, the Nathans (Rixham and Nobbe), yourself, myself - even Tedd Sperling and Jason Pruim, among many others - seemed to all fall off the face of the virtual earth at about the same moment. Then again, I suppose that's how generations work. It might be a bit selfish Dan, and I'll admit that, but when I was posting aggressively I was looking to really boost my PHP skills. Frankly I think this list was a major contributor to rapid success in the industry, and I always tell fellow developers to join the list if they're looking for a similar boost. I agree. This is a great source for stretching your PHP abilities. I dropped off a bit because I (rightfully) got boxed around when I made some incorrect statements regarding obscure HTML/PHP points. I thought, maybe I should shut up and just listen until I know more. Paul -- Paul M. Foster -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] Reminder On Mailing List Rules
On Thu, 2010-10-21 at 11:58 -0400, Paul M Foster wrote: On Thu, Oct 21, 2010 at 04:30:03PM +0100, Ashley Sheridan wrote: [snip] I always bottom post when I'm replying from my computer, but when on the move or at work, I'm only left with my Android, and the default email client doesn't allow reply positioning of any sort, so it's always top-posting :( Does anyone know of any decent email clients for Android that allow bottom posting that you maybe use or have had experience with? Please excuse my ignorance; I don't use a phone for email. When you reply to email in the Android, 1. Do you see the text of the email you're replying to? 2. Can you edit the text of the email you're replying to? 3. Can you move the cursor on the screen; are there keys which allow this? 4. Is the inability to reposition the cursor the fault of the application, or the phone itself? 5. To what extent do other smartphones share these characteristics? Paul -- Paul M. Foster The email I reply to gets attached rather than inserting the cursor at a specific point. If it wasn't for that, I'd quite happily spend the few seconds it would take to scroll to the bottom and start replying from there. Thanks, Ash http://www.ashleysheridan.co.uk
Re: [PHP] Reminder On Mailing List Rules
On Thu, 2010-10-21 at 12:14 -0400, Paul M Foster wrote: On Thu, Oct 21, 2010 at 10:47:53AM -0400, Daniel Brown wrote: On Thu, Oct 21, 2010 at 10:41, Robert Cummings rob...@interjinn.com wrote: I can't speak for everyone here (or who is no longer here)... but my posts have dwindled significantly due to work and family time constraints :| Same here, but isn't it a bit eerie that many of us hit that same point almost simultaneously? Richard Lynch, Lester Caine, Jochem Maas, Jim Lucas, the Nathans (Rixham and Nobbe), yourself, myself - even Tedd Sperling and Jason Pruim, among many others - seemed to all fall off the face of the virtual earth at about the same moment. Then again, I suppose that's how generations work. Here's something else eerie-- I don't think that Ashley Sheridan guy has slowed down at all. ;-} Paul -- Paul M. Foster I have a bit, but I do try and post as often as I can, but sometimes I just run out of time to post. Now that I've got the phone I hope to post a little more though ;) And thanks for remembering I'm a guy, been called a girl on this list more than once! :p Thanks, Ash http://www.ashleysheridan.co.uk
Re: [PHP] Reminder On Mailing List Rules
- Original Message - From: Daniel Brown danbr...@php.net To: PHP General php-general@lists.php.net Sent: Thursday, October 21, 2010 3:25 PM Subject: [PHP] Reminder On Mailing List Rules Hey, Folks; Just a gentle reminder after watching things get worse by the day: it is one of the rules of this and all official php.net mailing lists that you must not top-post. For anyone wondering just one of the reasons why we have this rule in effect, tab through this thread in the archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/php-general@lists.php.net/msg262390.html See how disastrous and headache-inducing it looks? You wouldn't put code together looking like spaghetti thrown at a wall and smashed into the carpet, especially knowing your clients and peers would see it, would you? It's a very similar situation here: your every word is being recorded in literally hundreds of places simultaneously, preserved as educational and professional reference material for current and future developers --- and not just in the PHP programming language, but in computer programming in general, as theories lend themselves to apply to other situations as well. Many of you take the time out of your busy schedules to voluntarily impart knowledge on people of varying degrees of skills and abilities, which is beyond commendable; so why not take just a couple of extra seconds to show pride in your participation, lead by example, and continue to set the bar high, rather than simply settling for the quickest Twitter-like R/T to a post? ;-P The ultimate goal here isn't to start a flame war (or even any further discussion on the subject for that matter), but to point out that this is a RULE of the official community here, not a PREFERENCE. P.S. - Those of you who have been around for years will likely recall with some fondness the level of respect, participation, and quality of discussions this list once had; the degree of mutual respect and camaraderie was palpable. If you're wondering if those days have really diminished into little more than granular memory, it's not just you --- check the following graph for some rather disturbing evidence: http://dir.gmane.org/gmane.comp.php.general -- /Daniel P. Brown Network Infrastructure Manager Documentation, Webmaster Teams http://www.php.net/ -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php Hi I'm not familiatr with the term top-post; could you please explain? Best wishes tholland -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] Reminder On Mailing List Rules
On Thu, Oct 21, 2010 at 1:37 PM, sueandant hollandsath...@tiscali.co.uk wrote: Hi I'm not familiatr with the term top-post; could you please explain? http://idallen.com/topposting.html -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] Reminder On Mailing List Rules
On 21 October 2010 16:25, Daniel Brown danbr...@php.net wrote: * snip * The ultimate goal here isn't to start a flame war (or even any further discussion on the subject for that matter), but to point out that this is a RULE of the official community here, not a PREFERENCE. If only the thread had ended there ... Regards Peter -- hype WWW: plphp.dk / plind.dk LinkedIn: plind BeWelcome/Couchsurfing: Fake51 Twitter: kafe15 /hype -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] Reminder On Mailing List Rules
This is top-posting. On Thu, Oct 21, 2010 at 15:37, sueandant hollandsath...@tiscali.co.uk wrote: I'm not familiatr with the term top-post; could you please explain? What you did, posting your message at the end of the email, is in adherence with the rules. -- /Daniel P. Brown Network Infrastructure Manager Documentation, Webmaster Teams http://www.php.net/ -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] Reminder On Mailing List Rules
sueandant wrote: Hi I'm not familiatr with the term top-post; could you please explain? http://lmgtfy.com/?q=top-post -- Per Jessen, Zürich (3.7°C) -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] Reminder On Mailing List Rules
Let's adhere to the rules. --Shreyas On Fri, Oct 22, 2010 at 1:15 AM, Per Jessen p...@computer.org wrote: sueandant wrote: Hi I'm not familiatr with the term top-post; could you please explain? http://lmgtfy.com/?q=top-post -- Per Jessen, Zürich (3.7°C) -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php Let's adhere to the rules -- Regards, Shreyas Agasthya
Re: [PHP] Reminder On Mailing List Rules
On Thu, Oct 21, 2010 at 12:42 PM, Larry Martell la...@software-horizons.com wrote: http://idallen.com/topposting.html top posting is no big IMHO. in fact, it's easier to read on mobile devices such as an iphone. it's also easier to reply. email clients like google will hide the common lines anyway. to me this comes on the heels of a presentation i just read about there's no such thing as a 'mobile site' as in - everything on the web now is consumed by multiple devices, that should include email as well. while ascending discussion makes sense, email clients are smart enough to pick things apart for you now... -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] Reminder On Mailing List Rules
On Thu, Oct 21, 2010 at 1:51 PM, Michael Shadle mike...@gmail.com wrote: in fact, it's easier to read on mobile devices such as an iphone. it's also easier to reply. email clients like google will hide the common lines anyway. to me this comes on the heels of a presentation i just read about there's no such thing as a 'mobile site' as in - everything on the web now is consumed by multiple devices, that should include email as well. while ascending discussion makes sense, email clients are smart enough to pick things apart for you now... um, right, the whole point is that the conversations are not being viewed through mail clients when people are finding them via search engines on the web. and some mail clients are dumber than others, lol. -nathan
Re: [PHP] Reminder On Mailing List Rules
Ok, I agree with most of those points, but why should I, or anyone, have to trim down someone else's 'signature', and I'm talking about these silly ones which are 10 or 20 lines long stating 'If you have received this email in error.blah, blah, blah'..surely, the banning of that, along with HTML, should take priority. Besides, as I have done here, I have deleted the entire earlier message, so posting above or below is irrelevant. Also, every other list I am on, I post at the top, as it is much easier to read replies when they appear at the very top, opposed to having to scroll down though the inevitable footers, or worse still, there is trying to see where comments have been inserted in the middle of texttalk about a nightmare. If I need to quote an earlier reply, I simply copy that into my response. I have been a PHP developer for over 10 years now, and I have been on and off this list for a lot of that time, and this is the very first time I have even heard of the term 'top-posting'. At the end of the day, how an individual wants to reply to an email is down to them, and trying to force them to do otherwise is nothing more than Orwellian! No matter how good the intent is. Alexis -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
RE: [PHP] Reminder On Mailing List Rules
[snip] Orwellian! [/snip] Nazi's did it! Why? Top posting is bad! -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] Reminder On Mailing List Rules
On 21 October 2010 21:01, Jay Blanchard jblanch...@pocket.com wrote: [snip] Orwellian! [/snip] Nazi's did it! !Godwin! -- Richard Quadling Twitter : EE : Zend @RQuadling : e-e.com/M_248814.html : bit.ly/9O8vFY -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] Reminder On Mailing List Rules
On Thu, Oct 21, 2010 at 12:56 PM, Nathan Nobbe quickshif...@gmail.com wrote: um, right, the whole point is that the conversations are not being viewed through mail clients when people are finding them via search engines on the web. and some mail clients are dumber than others, lol. a lot of the time even the web-based list sites now even do syntax highlighting and stuff :p -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] Reminder On Mailing List Rules
On Thu, Oct 21, 2010 at 2:15 PM, Michael Shadle mike...@gmail.com wrote: On Thu, Oct 21, 2010 at 12:56 PM, Nathan Nobbe quickshif...@gmail.com wrote: um, right, the whole point is that the conversations are not being viewed through mail clients when people are finding them via search engines on the web. and some mail clients are dumber than others, lol. a lot of the time even the web-based list sites now even do syntax highlighting and stuff :p what does syntax highlighting have to do w/ a mess of text that could be sorted out by folks willing to take the extra 2 seconds to put their thoughts at the bottom of a mail? i doubt there are any web-based lists that reorganize top-posted replies, but if you find one, id love to see it :P -nathan
Re: [PHP] Reminder On Mailing List Rules
On Thu, Oct 21, 2010 at 1:21 PM, Nathan Nobbe quickshif...@gmail.com wrote: what does syntax highlighting have to do w/ a mess of text that could be sorted out by folks willing to take the extra 2 seconds to put their thoughts at the bottom of a mail? i doubt there are any web-based lists that reorganize top-posted replies, but if you find one, id love to see it :P because it de-dupes or changes colors for the previous replies. and again - it doesn't take 2 seconds to clean up an email and throw a reply at the bottom on something like an iphone. that can take a while. at the end of the day, i don't give a crap how people post. i am able to read anyone's messages just fine. i don't know why anyone is complaining in the modern age. -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] Reminder On Mailing List Rules
On Thu, Oct 21, 2010 at 4:33 PM, Michael Shadle mike...@gmail.com wrote: On Thu, Oct 21, 2010 at 1:21 PM, Nathan Nobbe quickshif...@gmail.com wrote: what does syntax highlighting have to do w/ a mess of text that could be sorted out by folks willing to take the extra 2 seconds to put their thoughts at the bottom of a mail? i doubt there are any web-based lists that reorganize top-posted replies, but if you find one, id love to see it :P because it de-dupes or changes colors for the previous replies. and again - it doesn't take 2 seconds to clean up an email and throw a reply at the bottom on something like an iphone. that can take a while. at the end of the day, i don't give a crap how people post. i am able to read anyone's messages just fine. i don't know why anyone is complaining in the modern age. -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php oh oh, here we go again...com'on Friday's not until tomorrow! -- Bastien Cat, the other other white meat -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] Reminder On Mailing List Rules
Toilet seat. Up or down. Same thing? Sort of. -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] Reminder On Mailing List Rules
On Thu, Oct 21, 2010 at 2:33 PM, Michael Shadle mike...@gmail.com wrote: On Thu, Oct 21, 2010 at 1:21 PM, Nathan Nobbe quickshif...@gmail.com wrote: what does syntax highlighting have to do w/ a mess of text that could be sorted out by folks willing to take the extra 2 seconds to put their thoughts at the bottom of a mail? i doubt there are any web-based lists that reorganize top-posted replies, but if you find one, id love to see it :P because it de-dupes or changes colors for the previous replies. shrug, it still doesnt organize the responses into the cohesive manor correlating specific responses to specific portions of the previous message. ive found this technology to be fickle as it's based on characters being embedded into responses, which of course are not properly done when top-posting. and again - it doesn't take 2 seconds to clean up an email and throw a reply at the bottom on something like an iphone. that can take a while. just like dan, i have chosen to refrain from posting until a later time, like when i get home, or for someone else to invariably post next to the same thing i would have in the absence of said post. if i have something monumental to say that no one else does, i have the patience to wait that 30 minutes or w/e to get home and post it. at the end of the day, i don't give a crap how people post. i am able to read anyone's messages just fine. you clearly are a very gifted individual Michael. i don't know why anyone is complaining in the modern age. see the previous posts in this thread. i've found top-posting to be useful in the corporate environment where the people i'm working with are too ignorant to understand the rationale. however, when you're working with programmers, i think the expectation is more than reasonable as well the rationale behind it being understood. top-posting is also useful for trivial communications where only 1 or 2 replies will ever be sent. however, in long running complicated threads it quickly results in replies that are difficult to follow, specifically b/c it becomes non-trivial to correlate which portion of the previous message the author was addressing; at the very least, it introduces ambiguity. and more to the topic of this thread, the degradation of the communication here is a great example of another reason i've stopped being so active. there are standards established by the list, if you can't follow them, maybe you belong on the sidelines as an observer. -nathan
Re: [PHP] Reminder On Mailing List Rules
On Thu, Oct 21, 2010 at 3:12 PM, Nathan Nobbe quickshif...@gmail.com wrote: i've found top-posting to be useful in the corporate environment where the people i'm working with are too ignorant to understand the rationale. however, when you're working with programmers, i think the expectation is more than reasonable as well the rationale behind it being understood. top-posting is also useful for trivial communications where only 1 or 2 replies will ever be sent. however, in long running complicated threads it quickly results in replies that are difficult to follow, specifically b/c it becomes non-trivial to correlate which portion of the previous message the author was addressing; at the very least, it introduces ambiguity. and more to the topic of this thread, the degradation of the communication here is a great example of another reason i've stopped being so active. i agree, truly discussing something that is against your opinion should definitely be considered degradation there are standards established by the list, if you can't follow them, maybe you belong on the sidelines as an observer. yes, certainly people who do not have the patience to wait until they're home on a more formal PC in an increasing age of mobile do not belong in any discussions online. so while that audience is growing, their influence should be reduced. great math there. furthermore, i find this usage of the term standards is quite amusing. assigning a standard to a freeform discussion capability should be a farce, especially when you can't even consider web development RFCs standards when different browsers implement them different ways. perhaps you should just unsubscribe then, if this list is introducing so much more effort into your day to read. note, that i take the time to bottom-post and clean up emails when i have time, but if i don't, i don't. people discuss things for discussion, they don't discuss things because they care how it is placed. that's like getting a present and whining about the wrapping paper. -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] Reminder On Mailing List Rules
On Thu, Oct 21, 2010 at 4:24 PM, Michael Shadle mike...@gmail.com wrote: On Thu, Oct 21, 2010 at 3:12 PM, Nathan Nobbe quickshif...@gmail.com wrote: i've found top-posting to be useful in the corporate environment where the people i'm working with are too ignorant to understand the rationale. however, when you're working with programmers, i think the expectation is more than reasonable as well the rationale behind it being understood. top-posting is also useful for trivial communications where only 1 or 2 replies will ever be sent. however, in long running complicated threads it quickly results in replies that are difficult to follow, specifically b/c it becomes non-trivial to correlate which portion of the previous message the author was addressing; at the very least, it introduces ambiguity. and more to the topic of this thread, the degradation of the communication here is a great example of another reason i've stopped being so active. i agree, truly discussing something that is against your opinion should definitely be considered degradation there are standards established by the list, if you can't follow them, maybe you belong on the sidelines as an observer. yes, certainly people who do not have the patience to wait until they're home on a more formal PC in an increasing age of mobile do not belong in any discussions online. so while that audience is growing, their influence should be reduced. great math there. its not my fault the mobile browsers aren't as capable as the ones on pc's. i've been on a decent mobile device since the iphone 3g. i do like your logic of the larger audience being the one calling the shots in the online experience, however, while mobile is quickly outpacing the pc, i'm sure the pc environment is still the larger of the two atm. furthermore, i find this usage of the term standards is quite amusing. assigning a standard to a freeform discussion capability should be a farce, especially when you can't even consider web development RFCs standards when different browsers implement them different ways. lol, poignant, an amusing question is how many standards does it take before it's no longer a standard. well call it etiquette then, it's like joining a club and finding out they don't want guys pissing on the floors in the public showers. perhaps you should just unsubscribe then, if this list is introducing so much more effort into your day to read. shrug, since i still use php a good deal in my daily life, i choose to ignore most of the topics as they are repeats many times anyways. typically the people who need to be asked to not top-post are involved in threads that don't peak my interest. note, that i take the time to bottom-post and clean up emails when i have time, but if i don't, i don't. as do i, but i'll be nice enough to excuse myself when breaking protocol. people discuss things for discussion, they don't discuss things because they care how it is placed. that's like getting a present and whining about the wrapping paper. lol, nice analogy. i find it more along the lines of if you can't speak the language the way others are speaking it, they simply can't understand you or won't bother trying in the first place. its like classifying ebonics as english. -nathan
Re: [PHP] Reminder On Mailing List Rules
On Thu, Oct 21, 2010 at 18:24, Michael Shadle mike...@gmail.com wrote: note, that i take the time to bottom-post and clean up emails when i have time, but if i don't, i don't. people discuss things for discussion, they don't discuss things because they care how it is placed. that's like getting a present and whining about the wrapping paper. Unfortunately, Michael, while I appreciate your analogy (rarely is something well-balanced between wit, truth, and vivid imagery enough to make me laugh at the mental picture), I must point out that, in this case, you're incorrect. We do not operate this list for purposes of discussion; this is a support list. While it frequently [d]evolves into discussion - which is quite welcome to perpetuate the vibrancy of the community at large, our intent for this list is to be used as a means of peer support for those active on the list and reading the archives alike. In fact, the very description of the list is a high volume list for general PHP support; ask PHP questions here, though - admittedly, at times - it should probably read, this is a fantastic place to be flamed, trolled, disrespected, receive condescending admonishment by elitists and those who believe they deploy odorless feces, and yet still come back for more because - surprisingly - those are the same folks who will give you your answers, you punishment-relishing glutton. -- /Daniel P. Brown Network Infrastructure Manager Documentation, Webmaster Teams http://www.php.net/ -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] Reminder On Mailing List Rules
On 2010-10-21, at 6:24 PM, Michael Shadle mike...@gmail.com wrote: On Thu, Oct 21, 2010 at 3:12 PM, Nathan Nobbe quickshif...@gmail.com wrote: i've found top-posting to be useful in the corporate environment where the people i'm working with are too ignorant to understand the rationale. however, when you're working with programmers, i think the expectation is more than reasonable as well the rationale behind it being understood. top-posting is also useful for trivial communications where only 1 or 2 replies will ever be sent. however, in long running complicated threads it quickly results in replies that are difficult to follow, specifically b/c it becomes non-trivial to correlate which portion of the previous message the author was addressing; at the very least, it introduces ambiguity. and more to the topic of this thread, the degradation of the communication here is a great example of another reason i've stopped being so active. i agree, truly discussing something that is against your opinion should definitely be considered degradation there are standards established by the list, if you can't follow them, maybe you belong on the sidelines as an observer. yes, certainly people who do not have the patience to wait until they're home on a more formal PC in an increasing age of mobile do not belong in any discussions online. so while that audience is growing, their influence should be reduced. great math there. furthermore, i find this usage of the term standards is quite amusing. assigning a standard to a freeform discussion capability should be a farce, especially when you can't even consider web development RFCs standards when different browsers implement them different ways. perhaps you should just unsubscribe then, if this list is introducing so much more effort into your day to read. note, that i take the time to bottom-post and clean up emails when i have time, but if i don't, i don't. people discuss things for discussion, they don't discuss things because they care how it is placed. that's like getting a present and whining about the wrapping paper. -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php Stop bottom feeding the trolls! Bastien -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] Reminder On Mailing List Rules
On Thu, Oct 21, 2010 at 3:40 PM, Daniel Brown danbr...@php.net wrote: Unfortunately, Michael, while I appreciate your analogy (rarely is something well-balanced between wit, truth, and vivid imagery enough to make me laugh at the mental picture), I must point out that, in this case, you're incorrect. We do not operate this list for purposes of discussion; this is a support list. While it frequently [d]evolves into discussion - which is quite welcome to perpetuate the vibrancy of the community at large, our intent for this list is to be used as a means of peer support for those active on the list and reading the archives alike. In fact, the very description of the list is a high volume list for general PHP support; ask PHP questions here, Well, as you are @php.net, I will humbly bow to your word; Note that I have switched to typing with proper capitalization now. It's because I have the time. I typically delete probably 85%+ of email on the list without reading it, I read a few, and I post even rarely. I apologize for my amount of posing today being non-support related, but it has been proven that the more barriers to entry one puts up, the less people enter. The last thing I want to see is php.net mailing lists become #perl on efnet - an elitist group of folks who don't seem to be in the mood to help you and only tell you to RTFM - when a simple yes or no is actually less characters to type out to begin with. PHP is basically the only language I deal with any more - and it's the only language I -want- to deal with. I hate to see basic semantics such as top post you asshole scare off fresh blood and create a hostile or otherwise discriminatory environment. Keep PHP alive and well, at least until I retire. Don't let it die like Perl has! (ha, ha) -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] Reminder On Mailing List Rules
On Thu, Oct 21, 2010 at 19:18, Michael Shadle mike...@gmail.com wrote: Don't let it die like Perl has! (ha, ha) ?php $perl ='PERL' #!/usr/bin/perl my $pun = $?; die Great pun! unless $pun = 0; PERL; $filename = dirname(__FILE__).'/tmp-'.sha1(time()).'.pl'; file_put_contents($filename,$perl); chmod($filename,0755); /** * ;-P */ echo `$filename`.PHP_EOL; unlink($filename); ? -- /Daniel P. Brown Network Infrastructure Manager Documentation, Webmaster Teams http://www.php.net/ -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
