Re: [NF] Business basics question -- invoice before signed contract?
mrgmhale wrote: Yep, there is always the other side of the story, or so it seems. I am sorry about the personal grief. I have gone through 2 divorces in past years, and know the emotional and financial grief that comes with the mess. Uggghhh... Gil Yep...this long terrible ordeal can't be over fast enough. -- Michael J. Babcock, MCP MB Software Solutions, LLC http://mbsoftwaresolutions.com http://fabmate.com Work smarter, not harder, with MBSS custom software solutions! ___ Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com Subscription Maintenance: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox OT-free version of this list: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech Searchable Archive: http://leafe.com/archives/search/profox This message: http://leafe.com/archives/byMID/profox/[EMAIL PROTECTED] ** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.
RE: [NF] Business basics question -- invoice before signed contract?
In UK if an invoice is not challenged it acts as a form of contract, ie the buyer is obliged to pay. We also have the concept of an 'unfair' contract which means that if I sign a contract and later decide that it is unfair I can ignore it (but I may well have to persuade a court that the contract was unfair). I can't see any problem with invoicing before a contract is signed, particularly if you can put some sort of time limitation on the app which will be removed when the contact is signed. John Weller 01380 723235 07976 393631 -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Michael J. Babcock, MCP Sent: 24 October 2007 16:10 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [NF] Business basics question -- invoice before signed contract? Got a potential buyer for FabMate who wants me to invoice him...but he hasn't yet signed the contract. I sent a simple email with this message yesterday to him: Good morning, Walter! Once you return the signed contract, we will then invoice you...but not until we get the signed contract. Thanks! --Michael - I learn today that he's upset and wonders why he has to sign and return the contract first. To me, that's just the natural order of the business transaction. Am I wrong? btw -- this guy has been dicking around for a year...telling us oh yeah, we're buying it... I've grown tired of dealing with him, so this was basically my way of saying if you're serious, sign and return the contract and then I'll continue this transaction with you. Your thoughts? tia, --Michael [excessive quoting removed by server] ___ Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com Subscription Maintenance: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox OT-free version of this list: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech Searchable Archive: http://leafe.com/archives/search/profox This message: http://leafe.com/archives/byMID/profox/[EMAIL PROTECTED] ** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.
Re: [NF] Business basics question -- invoice before signed contract?
In practice it doesn't matter too much. Just make sure you don't do anything for him without at least 20% of the total invoice amount paid and banked. (Why 20%? that way, if it all goes to ratshit later, you've at least covered your costs). Michael J. Babcock, MCP wrote: Got a potential buyer for FabMate who wants me to invoice him...but he hasn't yet signed the contract. I sent a simple email with this message yesterday to him: Good morning, Walter! Once you return the signed contract, we will then invoice you...but not until we get the signed contract. Thanks! --Michael - I learn today that he's upset and wonders why he has to sign and return the contract first. To me, that's just the natural order of the business transaction. Am I wrong? btw -- this guy has been dicking around for a year...telling us oh yeah, we're buying it... I've grown tired of dealing with him, so this was basically my way of saying if you're serious, sign and return the contract and then I'll continue this transaction with you. Your thoughts? tia, --Michael [excessive quoting removed by server] ___ Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com Subscription Maintenance: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox OT-free version of this list: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech Searchable Archive: http://leafe.com/archives/search/profox This message: http://leafe.com/archives/byMID/profox/[EMAIL PROTECTED] ** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.
Re: [NF] Business basics question -- invoice before signed contract?
Why does he want the invoice for? To make sure it doesn't change from the quote? --- Michael J. Babcock, MCP [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Got a potential buyer for FabMate who wants me to invoice him...but he hasn't yet signed the contract. I sent a simple email with this message yesterday to him: Good morning, Walter! Once you return the signed contract, we will then invoice you...but not until we get the signed contract. Thanks! --Michael - I learn today that he's upset and wonders why he has to sign and return the contract first. To me, that's just the natural order of the business transaction. Am I wrong? btw -- this guy has been dicking around for a year...telling us oh yeah, we're buying it... I've grown tired of dealing with him, so this was basically my way of saying if you're serious, sign and return the contract and then I'll continue this transaction with you. Your thoughts? tia, --Michael ___ Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com Subscription Maintenance: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox OT-free version of this list: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech Searchable Archive: http://leafe.com/archives/search/profox This message: http://leafe.com/archives/byMID/profox/[EMAIL PROTECTED] ** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious. ___ Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com Subscription Maintenance: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox OT-free version of this list: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech Searchable Archive: http://leafe.com/archives/search/profox This message: http://leafe.com/archives/byMID/profox/[EMAIL PROTECTED] ** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.
RE: [NF] Business basics question -- invoice before signed contract?
Wow, Michael, tact and diplomacy go a long way, especially with a new client... IMHO, you badically hit him between the eyes, and allowed him to feel you may not trust him. It is the, but not until we get the signed contract., part of the eMail I think may have caused the friction. Tome it sounds like, Damn it, Gil, first you have to sign the contract, then we will invoice you. But nothing happens until after you sign the contract, otherwise I do not know if I can rely on you to see this deal through... About this time I would be calling the client, and advising the eMail's tone likely was too terse, and not reflective of what you meant. What you meant to say (I hope) is, Normally I like to get a contract signed with a client. Only after the contract is signed will I be invoicing you for any fees. I do this to help reduce the potential for misunderstandings. Big difference in approach, and potential for misunderstandings in perception by the client. Just my 2 cents, my friend. Gil -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Michael J. Babcock, MCP Sent: Wednesday, October 24, 2007 11:10 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [NF] Business basics question -- invoice before signed contract? Got a potential buyer for FabMate who wants me to invoice him...but he hasn't yet signed the contract. I sent a simple email with this message yesterday to him: Good morning, Walter! Once you return the signed contract, we will then invoice you...but not until we get the signed contract. Thanks! --Michael - I learn today that he's upset and wonders why he has to sign and return the contract first. To me, that's just the natural order of the business transaction. Am I wrong? btw -- this guy has been dicking around for a year...telling us oh yeah, we're buying it... I've grown tired of dealing with him, so this was basically my way of saying if you're serious, sign and return the contract and then I'll continue this transaction with you. Your thoughts? tia, --Michael [excessive quoting removed by server] ___ Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com Subscription Maintenance: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox OT-free version of this list: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech Searchable Archive: http://leafe.com/archives/search/profox This message: http://leafe.com/archives/byMID/profox/[EMAIL PROTECTED] ** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.
RE: [NF] Business basics question -- invoice before signed contract?
You're right Gil. But I think Mike may be at the end of his rope with this guy. I once had a guy reneg after weeks and weeks of negotiation because I dared ask for all the hardware costs upfront. --- mrgmhale [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Wow, Michael, tact and diplomacy go a long way, especially with a new client... IMHO, you badically hit him between the eyes, and allowed him to feel you may not trust him. It is the, but not until we get the signed contract., part of the eMail I think may have caused the friction. Tome it sounds like, Damn it, Gil, first you have to sign the contract, then we will invoice you. But nothing happens until after you sign the contract, otherwise I do not know if I can rely on you to see this deal through... About this time I would be calling the client, and advising the eMail's tone likely was too terse, and not reflective of what you meant. What you meant to say (I hope) is, Normally I like to get a contract signed with a client. Only after the contract is signed will I be invoicing you for any fees. I do this to help reduce the potential for misunderstandings. Big difference in approach, and potential for misunderstandings in perception by the client. Just my 2 cents, my friend. Gil -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Michael J. Babcock, MCP Sent: Wednesday, October 24, 2007 11:10 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [NF] Business basics question -- invoice before signed contract? Got a potential buyer for FabMate who wants me to invoice him...but he hasn't yet signed the contract. I sent a simple email with this message yesterday to him: Good morning, Walter! Once you return the signed contract, we will then invoice you...but not until we get the signed contract. Thanks! --Michael - I learn today that he's upset and wonders why he has to sign and return the contract first. To me, that's just the natural order of the business transaction. Am I wrong? btw -- this guy has been dicking around for a year...telling us oh yeah, we're buying it... I've grown tired of dealing with him, so this was basically my way of saying if you're serious, sign and return the contract and then I'll continue this transaction with you. Your thoughts? tia, --Michael [excessive quoting removed by server] ___ Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com Subscription Maintenance: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox OT-free version of this list: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech Searchable Archive: http://leafe.com/archives/search/profox This message: http://leafe.com/archives/byMID/profox/[EMAIL PROTECTED] ** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.
Re: [NF] Business basics question -- invoice before signed contract?
mrgmhale wrote: Wow, Michael, tact and diplomacy go a long way, especially with a new client... IMHO, you badically hit him between the eyes, and allowed him to feel you may not trust him. It is the, but not until we get the signed contract., part of the eMail I think may have caused the friction. Tome it sounds like, Damn it, Gil, first you have to sign the contract, then we will invoice you. But nothing happens until after you sign the contract, otherwise I do not know if I can rely on you to see this deal through... About this time I would be calling the client, and advising the eMail's tone likely was too terse, and not reflective of what you meant. What you meant to say (I hope) is, Normally I like to get a contract signed with a client. Only after the contract is signed will I be invoicing you for any fees. I do this to help reduce the potential for misunderstandings. Big difference in approach, and potential for misunderstandings in perception by the client. Just my 2 cents, my friend. Gil I'll be the first to say that my tact is terribleand perhaps largely soured by this whole shitty marriage-failure/divorce situation. I also am having my financial records subpoenaed for this divorce settlement case so I certainly don't want to make accounting entries for funds that may never appear. I did send him this a bit later this morning: - Walter, You can fax the signed contract back to us to save on postage: 815-642-9707. Once we get that, you can work out a timeframe with Nick for your onsite training for a date that works best for both of you. It must be 30+ days from the date we receive the signed contract. That way, we can use that time to cater the training for you as well as set up our travel accommodations. Then, when Nick is there for training, you can just give the original signed contract to Nick and keep a copy for your records. If you have any other questions, please don't hesitate to contact Nick or myself. Thanks! --Michael - Hopefully that takes care of it. I guess I over-reacted...I'll send him the invoices despite my paranoia. -- Michael J. Babcock, MCP MB Software Solutions, LLC http://mbsoftwaresolutions.com http://fabmate.com Work smarter, not harder, with MBSS custom software solutions! ___ Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com Subscription Maintenance: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox OT-free version of this list: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech Searchable Archive: http://leafe.com/archives/search/profox This message: http://leafe.com/archives/byMID/profox/[EMAIL PROTECTED] ** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.
Re: [NF] Business basics question -- invoice before signed contract?
Michael Madigan wrote: You're right Gil. But I think Mike may be at the end of his rope with this guy. I once had a guy reneg after weeks and weeks of negotiation because I dared ask for all the hardware costs upfront. You're reading this fairly well, MM. This is the guy who's been telling us all year long that he's buying our product, and when I contacted him over a month ago, his remarks were you should have the check in your mailbox next week. I'd love to get the sale, but I'm leery of a client like this who gives you worries before the sale is even made. Could be a nightmare PITA client in my future, which I don't want...regardless of the $$ to be made. -- Michael J. Babcock, MCP MB Software Solutions, LLC http://mbsoftwaresolutions.com http://fabmate.com Work smarter, not harder, with MBSS custom software solutions! ___ Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com Subscription Maintenance: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox OT-free version of this list: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech Searchable Archive: http://leafe.com/archives/search/profox This message: http://leafe.com/archives/byMID/profox/[EMAIL PROTECTED] ** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.
Re: [NF] Business basics question -- invoice before signed contract?
On 10/24/07, Michael J. Babcock, MCP [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I did send him this a bit later this morning: Pick. Up. the. Phone. If you two can't work this out civilly, you'll be in court in no time when you hit your first snag on the job. I have never regretted the clients I declined to work with anywhere near as much as the marginal clients I did choose to work with. If you two aren't buddy-buddy now, expect it to get much worse. After prolonged negotiations with a client over a period of weeks, with shifting requirements and too many on-site meetings, miscommunications, misunderstandings and requests for quotes, I told them I wasn't interested in doing business with them. No more headaches. Will you regret it when you are starving? Not as much as you'll regret it when you are starving BECAUSE of them! -- Ted Roche Ted Roche Associates, LLC http://www.tedroche.com ___ Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com Subscription Maintenance: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox OT-free version of this list: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech Searchable Archive: http://leafe.com/archives/search/profox This message: http://leafe.com/archives/byMID/profox/[EMAIL PROTECTED] ** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.
Re: [NF] Business basics question -- invoice before signed contract?
Ted Roche wrote: On 10/24/07, Michael J. Babcock, MCP [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I did send him this a bit later this morning: Pick. Up. the. Phone. I've called this guy in the past on numerous occasions...this hasn't been an electronic-only kind of relationship. I just felt that he was stringing it along, and as I'm not counting on money from this guy, I wasn't too worried about bending over backwards to the point of being uncomfortable for this guy. If you two can't work this out civilly, you'll be in court in no time when you hit your first snag on the job. He's asking me about the financing penalties I have in the contract (which basically says that you pay 1.5% monthly for monies not paid by the due dates). That sent worries into me. I have never regretted the clients I declined to work with anywhere near as much as the marginal clients I did choose to work with. If you two aren't buddy-buddy now, expect it to get much worse. Exactly where I'm coming fromif I don't get a good feeling from them, I'd prefer to let someone else take their chances, er, uh, I mean take care of them. After prolonged negotiations with a client over a period of weeks, with shifting requirements and too many on-site meetings, miscommunications, misunderstandings and requests for quotes, I told them I wasn't interested in doing business with them. No more headaches. Been there, done that, got the out-of-court settlement for the dooschbag who thought he'd stiff me for $3800. Will you regret it when you are starving? Not as much as you'll regret it when you are starving BECAUSE of them! Exactly...hence my basically saying this is the way it is going to be instead of what else/more can I do for you? since this has gone on for about a year now. My ex-GM (who has a 1-year contract with me) thinks I'm too harsh and wants to tap-dance for this guy.that could be perhaps he gets a 25% commission on the sale. I've told him that he needs to reel this in as well as train him, as per our contract agreement, for him to get the commission. No way in hell do I want this seemingly problematic client dealing with me directly while my ex-GM gets the commission without the work required. Thank God for contracts. Don't work without them!!! -- Michael J. Babcock, MCP MB Software Solutions, LLC http://mbsoftwaresolutions.com http://fabmate.com Work smarter, not harder, with MBSS custom software solutions! ___ Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com Subscription Maintenance: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox OT-free version of this list: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech Searchable Archive: http://leafe.com/archives/search/profox This message: http://leafe.com/archives/byMID/profox/[EMAIL PROTECTED] ** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.
RE: [NF] Business basics question -- invoice before signed contract?
Yep, there is always the other side of the story, or so it seems. I am sorry about the personal grief. I have gone through 2 divorces in past years, and know the emotional and financial grief that comes with the mess. Uggghhh... Gil -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Michael J. Babcock, MCP Sent: Wednesday, October 24, 2007 1:29 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [NF] Business basics question -- invoice before signed contract? mrgmhale wrote: Wow, Michael, tact and diplomacy go a long way, especially with a new client... IMHO, you badically hit him between the eyes, and allowed him to feel you may not trust him. It is the, but not until we get the signed contract., part of the eMail I think may have caused the friction. Tome it sounds like, Damn it, Gil, first you have to sign the contract, then we will invoice you. But nothing happens until after you sign the contract, otherwise I do not know if I can rely on you to see this deal through... About this time I would be calling the client, and advising the eMail's tone likely was too terse, and not reflective of what you meant. What you meant to say (I hope) is, Normally I like to get a contract signed with a client. Only after the contract is signed will I be invoicing you for any fees. I do this to help reduce the potential for misunderstandings. Big difference in approach, and potential for misunderstandings in perception by the client. Just my 2 cents, my friend. Gil I'll be the first to say that my tact is terribleand perhaps largely soured by this whole shitty marriage-failure/divorce situation. I also am having my financial records subpoenaed for this divorce settlement case so I certainly don't want to make accounting entries for funds that may never appear. I did send him this a bit later this morning: - Walter, You can fax the signed contract back to us to save on postage: 815-642-9707. Once we get that, you can work out a timeframe with Nick for your onsite training for a date that works best for both of you. It must be 30+ days from the date we receive the signed contract. That way, we can use that time to cater the training for you as well as set up our travel accommodations. Then, when Nick is there for training, you can just give the original signed contract to Nick and keep a copy for your records. If you have any other questions, please don't hesitate to contact Nick or myself. Thanks! --Michael - Hopefully that takes care of it. I guess I over-reacted...I'll send him the invoices despite my paranoia. -- Michael J. Babcock, MCP MB Software Solutions, LLC http://mbsoftwaresolutions.com http://fabmate.com Work smarter, not harder, with MBSS custom software solutions! [excessive quoting removed by server] ___ Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com Subscription Maintenance: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox OT-free version of this list: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech Searchable Archive: http://leafe.com/archives/search/profox This message: http://leafe.com/archives/byMID/profox/[EMAIL PROTECTED] ** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.
Re: [NF] Business basics question -- invoice before signed contract?
mrgmhale wrote: Wow, Michael, tact and diplomacy go a long way, especially with a new client... IMHO, you badically hit him between the eyes, and allowed him to feel you may not trust him. It is the, but not until we get the signed contract., part of the eMail I think may have caused the friction. Tome it sounds like, Damn it, Gil, first you have to sign the contract, then we will invoice you. But nothing happens until after you sign the contract, otherwise I do not know if I can rely on you to see this deal through... About this time I would be calling the client, and advising the eMail's tone likely was too terse, and not reflective of what you meant. What you meant to say (I hope) is, Normally I like to get a contract signed with a client. Only after the contract is signed will I be invoicing you for any fees. I do this to help reduce the potential for misunderstandings. Big difference in approach, and potential for misunderstandings in perception by the client. Just my 2 cents, my friend. Gil I'll be the first to say that my tact is terribleand perhaps largely soured by this whole shitty marriage-failure/divorce situation. I also am having my financial records subpoenaed for this divorce settlement case so I certainly don't want to make accounting entries for funds that may never appear. I did send him this a bit later this morning: - Walter, You can fax the signed contract back to us to save on postage: 815-642-9707. Once we get that, you can work out a timeframe with Nick for your onsite training for a date that works best for both of you. It must be 30+ days from the date we receive the signed contract. That way, we can use that time to cater the training for you as well as set up our travel accommodations. Then, when Nick is there for training, you can just give the original signed contract to Nick and keep a copy for your records. If you have any other questions, please don't hesitate to contact Nick or myself. Thanks! --Michael - Hopefully that takes care of it. I guess I over-reacted...I'll send him the invoices despite my paranoia. -- Michael J. Babcock, MCP MB Software Solutions, LLC http://mbsoftwaresolutions.com http://fabmate.com Work smarter, not harder, with MBSS custom software solutions! ___ Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com Subscription Maintenance: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox OT-free version of this list: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech Searchable Archive: http://leafe.com/archives/search/profox This message: http://leafe.com/archives/byMID/profox/[EMAIL PROTECTED] ** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.
RE: [NF] Business basics question -- invoice before signed contract?
Ted, I did send him this a bit later this morning: Pick. Up. the. Phone. So you've noticed that a lot of computer people don't like to talk on the phone? :-) As far as regretting starvation? I just lost a client because I didn't want to drive 3 hours per day to work on site every day. That was never our deal and I just can't do that kind of a daily commute... So we parted company. I need more work again, but at least I still have other small clients and my web sites. Kristyne ___ Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com Subscription Maintenance: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox OT-free version of this list: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech Searchable Archive: http://leafe.com/archives/search/profox This message: http://leafe.com/archives/byMID/profox/[EMAIL PROTECTED] ** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.
RE: [NF] Business basics question -- invoice before signed contract?
Hmmm... Now I am wondering if this is going to be good or bad for you. Oh well, take the cash and run with it... How bad could it get? g... Gil -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of MB Software Solutions Sent: Wednesday, October 24, 2007 7:43 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [NF] Business basics question -- invoice before signed contract? mrgmhale wrote: Wow, Michael, tact and diplomacy go a long way, especially with a new client... IMHO, you badically hit him between the eyes, and allowed him to feel you may not trust him. It is the, but not until we get the signed contract., part of the eMail I think may have caused the friction. Tome it sounds like, Damn it, Gil, first you have to sign the contract, then we will invoice you. But nothing happens until after you sign the contract, otherwise I do not know if I can rely on you to see this deal through... About this time I would be calling the client, and advising the eMail's tone likely was too terse, and not reflective of what you meant. What you meant to say (I hope) is, Normally I like to get a contract signed with a client. Only after the contract is signed will I be invoicing you for any fees. I do this to help reduce the potential for misunderstandings. Big difference in approach, and potential for misunderstandings in perception by the client. Just my 2 cents, my friend. Gil I'll be the first to say that my tact is terribleand perhaps largely soured by this whole shitty marriage-failure/divorce situation. I also am having my financial records subpoenaed for this divorce settlement case so I certainly don't want to make accounting entries for funds that may never appear. I did send him this a bit later this morning: - Walter, You can fax the signed contract back to us to save on postage: 815-642-9707. Once we get that, you can work out a timeframe with Nick for your onsite training for a date that works best for both of you. It must be 30+ days from the date we receive the signed contract. That way, we can use that time to cater the training for you as well as set up our travel accommodations. Then, when Nick is there for training, you can just give the original signed contract to Nick and keep a copy for your records. If you have any other questions, please don't hesitate to contact Nick or myself. Thanks! --Michael - Hopefully that takes care of it. I guess I over-reacted...I'll send him the invoices despite my paranoia. -- Michael J. Babcock, MCP MB Software Solutions, LLC http://mbsoftwaresolutions.com http://fabmate.com Work smarter, not harder, with MBSS custom software solutions! [excessive quoting removed by server] ___ Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com Subscription Maintenance: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox OT-free version of this list: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech Searchable Archive: http://leafe.com/archives/search/profox This message: http://leafe.com/archives/byMID/profox/[EMAIL PROTECTED] ** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.
RE: [NF] Business basics question -- invoice before signed contract?
Kris, As far as regretting starvation? I just lost a client because I didn't want to drive 3 hours per day to work on site every day. That was never our deal and I just can't do that kind of a daily commute... So we parted company. It's interesting that with high speed connections, remote control, cheap long distance and headsets, that anyone is still going to the office every day anymore. I'm guessing it's old-school hangers-on managers that haven't been replaced yet by people who take remote work naturally. I need more work again, but at least I still have other small clients and my web sites. I think that attending a VFP-related conference would be a productive move. Thoughts: Wouldn't you think that, with all the progress we've made technically, that selling would have also gotten just a little easier? It seems to me that there's an inverse relationship between our technical and selling advances. It seems that, especially for those of us who work remotely, being isolated from people who do what we do has hurts sales in a growing way. It seems that fewer people go to conferences anymore because it's all on the net. But as we realize that by not going to conferences we're throwing the baby (sales/synergy opportunities) out with the bathwater, maybe there will be growing interest in the good-old conference, because it does serve the purpose very well. I haven't been to Kevin's, but I know Whil did a super job and hopes he sees a rosy future there. Another approach for sales, which I'm seeing work, is telemarketing. Because it's B2B the response isn't like calling to sell insurance to families during dinner time. Bill Kristyne ___ Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com Subscription Maintenance: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox OT-free version of this list: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech Searchable Archive: http://leafe.com/archives/search/profox This message: http://leafe.com/archives/byMID/profox/[EMAIL PROTECTED] ** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.
Re: [NF] Business basics question -- invoice before signed contract?
On Wednesday 24 October 2007 23:10, Bill Arnold wrote: snip Another approach for sales, which I'm seeing work, is telemarketing. Because it's B2B the response isn't like calling to sell insurance to Hi Bill! One of the reasons I closed my clinic and took my social security was the (insert the vilest adjective you can think of here) B2B telemarketers. I would be seeing a patient and the phone would ring 15 times. I know, the vile-adjective TMs merely require me to hire someone to talk to them so I could get something done, which is what I did, increasing the already too high price of the patient's health care. It took most of my receptionist's time telling this element to go make their pitch to the devil. In the light of some of the other positions you have taken, it doesn't surprise me at all that you find work in that field and think it is somehow OK. Fits right in with the treason and surrender ethic. B2B indeed. -- Regards, Pete http://www.pete-theisen.com/ ___ Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com Subscription Maintenance: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox OT-free version of this list: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech Searchable Archive: http://leafe.com/archives/search/profox This message: http://leafe.com/archives/byMID/profox/[EMAIL PROTECTED] ** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.
