date:20130509

Doug,

My Brother purchased a SOMA San Marcos off the web for $775.00 and built it
up with 11 speed Campy Athena, and Velo-Orange wheels. He did have to
purchase the the Tektro 559's for increased reach. He has mounted racks,
and trunk bags and has since mounted Longboard fenders. He loves the bike
and loves the way it handles. When he spoke to Riv they explained to him
that the San Marcos is the closest frame set they sell that emulates the
ride quality of the Roadeo.

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-4Qulq7OXJeM/UYtBZFvWlSI/AC4/wIGGUAWJ4i8/s1600/Soma_w_racks.jpeg

Incidentally, he just recently purchased a Surly pacer and built it up with
10 speed Campy! He apparently loves Campy :-) So his rational was he wanted
a bike unloaded. I on the other hand purchased a A.A.H. built up by Riv
with their mix of parts. My second bike will be a Trek 660 built with Campy
10 speed ( It runs in the family) meant to ride with a minimal load and on
the road and light dirt roads.

I think the most important criteria is what are you comfortable spending
and what will give you long term happiness? My Hilsen has small lettering
on the seat tube with Rivendell the down tube in large letters has A.
Homer. Hilsen though it doesn't scream Rivendell I love it. If it looks
like a Riv, rides like a Riv then it's a Riv. Lastly, I was riding up a
road on my way back home in my neighborhood and a fellow yells hey is that
a Rivendell? I turned back with a smile and confirmed his suspicion.

Like Jim Thill I like the Soma San Marcos headbadge it's awesome, and I
also dig the Riv custom headbadge both hansome.

Good luck on your decision either frame set will bring you a lot of
enjoyment.

Hugh
Sunland, CA

On Monday, May 6, 2013 12:48:18 PM UTC-7, Doug Williams wrote:

Well, to close out this topic, I should say that Grant wrote me a kind
email saying that the contract with Soma doesn’t allow Riv to mess with the
San Marcos. That’s what I expected, really. The best advice from this list
was to “Just Ride” the San Marcos and my feelings about the lack of
“Rivendellness” of the bike would melt away with the miles. I think that is
what I will do.

Looking logically at the difference between the San Marcos and the Roadeo,
it is hard to justify paying $1,300 more for the Roadeo just because it is
a better looking bike and a “true Rivendell”. Also, I tell myself that I
won’t put a rack on the bike…but then I just might. A rack would allow me
to ride the San Marcos instead of my pig Novara Safari for weekend trip. I
could always remove the rack before my next “fast” ride.

Still…which headbadge do you prefer? The headbadge with the beautiful
winding open road trailing into the sunset or the headbadge with the Sutro
Tower television and radio transmission antennae? Not a tough call for me.
For me at least, the Roadeo is the more beautiful bike and the San Marcos
is the more practical bike.

I guess I’ll keep a magnifying glass to read the fine print on the
chainstay and a laminated copy of my invoice in my saddlebag so I can prove
that my San Marcos is a “True Rivendell”. J
But then I think I need to test ride the Roadeo and the AHH before I place
my order just to make sure.
Doug

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Re: [RBW] Re: Interesting discussion: Riv bikes v. BQ bikes

2013-05-09 Thread Matt Beebe

What if, as an experienced rider, what you want is something that you can 
easily modify over time, because you've been riding long enough to know 
that your riding changes over the days/years/decades, your body changes, 
and furthermore your bike is just as likely to be ridden on rocky/root 
laden singletrack as on pavement, even on the way to work?

Anyway I agree with what others have pointed out;  most of us agree on far 
more than this thread would indicate (or we wouldn't be reading the RBWOB 
list). Count me among those who are just glad that we have both Jan and 
Grant's contributions to the current world of bicycling.Compared to 
mainstream of the past, they are WAY more similar than is worth arguing 
about.   BQ is an awesome rag.

Now, I'd like to propose a new rule for these kinds of threads, though I 
know it would be ignored anyway:  no more comparisons between flavors of 
automobiles and flavors of bicycles.   At best it's a ruthlessly overworked 
simile, at worst it's just a bummer.


Matt


On Wednesday, May 8, 2013 9:30:34 PM UTC-4, Jan Heine wrote:



 On Wednesday, May 8, 2013 4:15:52 PM UTC-7, Patrick Moore wrote:

 I will also add that Jan is wrong in his general conclusion (at least, 
 this is the sensus verbi) that while other bikes are OK if you don't want 
 to spend a lot of money or don't really know what you like, his preferred 
 types are the only ones chosen by those who have both the knowledge and 
 money to get what they really want. Not proven!

 I am sorry about the misunderstanding. What I was trying to say is this: 
 If you know what you want, then a bike optimized specifically for your 
 preferences will usually be superior to a jack-of-all-trades that is 
 designed to work with many configurations.

 What that configuration is depends on the rider and their preferences. For 
 example, if you ride a lot out of the saddle, a front load usually is 
 superior as it doesn't have the tail wagging the dog feel. If you like to 
 ride no-hands at relatively low speeds, a rear load is better, because a 
 front load needs a certain speed to become stable no-hands. And then there 
 are simply preferences of what you like a bike to feel like.

 Jan Heine
 Editor
 Bicycle Quarterly
 www.bikequarterly.com

 Follow our blog at www.janheine.com 


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[RBW] Re: A. Homer Hilsen visits Gettysburg (or what I did this weekend)

2013-05-09 Thread Ron Mc

with that schedule, I guess you didn't get to stop in Gettysburg.  now 
where are those smilies?  Thanks for the post.  

On Wednesday, May 8, 2013 6:49:07 PM UTC-5, Iron Rider wrote:


 A report on a long ride to, through and from Gettysburg. Pictures too. 
 http://eprider.blogspot.com/2013/05/leesburg-400k-with-roma-randonneurs-of.html


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[RBW] Re: Interesting discussion: Riv bikes v. BQ bikes


This is apples and oranges ... that's all. There is no one right way for 
all  only the ways it works for each as themselves.  We each have our 
purpose ... our reasons for riding ... for living as we do... and no one 
needs to justify or give reasons as to why they choose what they choose.  
If you want to do that, okay . but no choice is superior or inferior to 
another . 


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Re: [RBW] Re: Interesting discussion: Riv bikes v. BQ bikes

2013-05-09 Thread bobish

Steve P., what are your riding? Any pics (link). Also, anyone know if there is 
low trail google group or equivalent? (I'm already familiar with BQ and Jan 
but just wondering if there is a general discussion/group going on elsewhere.)

Thanks,
Perry

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Re: [RBW] Re: Interesting discussion: Riv bikes v. BQ bikes

2013-05-09 Thread Steve Palincsar

On Thu, 2013-05-09 at 05:50 -0700, bobish wrote:
 Steve P., what are your riding? Any pics (link). 

MAP Randonneur:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/97916047@N00/7252011134/in/set-72157627155309179
seen here on tour in Ohio last year

Kogswell P/R:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/37542512@N04/8652943777/in/pool-2169588@N24
photographed on the Delaware Water Gap tour

Velo Orange Randonneur:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/97916047@N00/sets/72157606169015639/show/

George Longstaff Custom Audax:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/97916047@N00/4018066148/in/set-72157622475590131/

Alex Moulton AM:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/97916047@N00/sets/72157624929495699/show/

and for some reason, I have no photos of my 1991 Spectrum Ti



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[RBW] Re: May Spring Ride with Rain, Snell, Snow, and Abandon

2013-05-09 Thread Mike

Great images. Was this a camping trip or a day excursion? As always, thanks 
for posting. Heading out myself now although just for a long solo day ride.

--mike


On Wednesday, May 8, 2013 2:46:38 PM UTC-7, Deacon Patrick wrote:

 Woke up feeling great this morning, looked out to see rain and heavy 
 clouds and temp at 32˚F. Naturally I grabbed my gear and headed out!
 http://www.flickr.com/photos/32311885@N07/sets/72157633435488285/

 With abandon,
 Patrick

 *www.MindYourHeadCoop.org*
 *www.OurHolyConception.org*
  


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Re: [RBW] Re: More fender advice needed

2013-05-09 Thread Peter Morgano

I did start with the Tektro silvers and found the center pulls gave me a
bit more room with the fenders. Most importantly they didn't squeeze the
fenders when I braked like the silvers did.
On May 9, 2013 2:18 AM, David Hays 23writ...@gmail.com wrote:

 Peter,
 Nice work. The bikes look great.
 I see you're running center pull brakes instead of the Tektro side pulls.
 Do you think that's giving you more clearance? Would I be well off to
 switch the brakes before adding the fenders?
 David


 On May 8, 2013, at 4:20 PM, Peter Morgano uscpeter11...@gmail.com wrote:

 Re: 52mm Zeppelins over Honjos on a Homer. Took some fiddling but it is
 possible, again some fiddling could mean 1 hour, could mean 1 day depending
 on your handiness, def not an easy setup job but it comes out looking nice.
 See picture in my Flikr feed.

 http://www.flickr.com/photos/67889635@N06/7100748813/


 On Wed, May 8, 2013 at 3:56 PM, David Hays 23writ...@gmail.com wrote:

 Does anybody have any experience fitting the 52mm VO Zeppelin fenders to
 a Homer over 42mm Hetres?
 Thanks,
 David


 On May 8, 2013, at 3:45 PM, Minh mgiangs...@gmail.com wrote:

 Agreed.  Have VO and Berthoud, VO are a great value.  I love the Honjo's
 but have never gotten over the big price difference myself.

 On Wednesday, May 8, 2013 8:35:35 AM UTC-4, Ron Mc wrote:

 Honjo fenders use 4mm rods, VO fenders use 5mm rods, VO fenders are
 slightly thicker.  The VO fenders are a bargain on a great product.

 On Tuesday, May 7, 2013 2:43:38 PM UTC-5, Ojiisan wrote:

 This has probably been covered already someplace on this group but I
 need some fender advice. I've decided to get some 45mm fenders to fit
 over 700x32c tires. I'm leaning toward smooth aluminum type. I'm
 looking at either VO fenders or Honjo fenders. Honjo fenders are over
 twice the price of the VOs. I'd rather pay for quality to avoid
 disappointment but is there really that much of a difference between VO and
 Honjo fenders? Is there another fender make I might consider? Many thanks,
 Ojiisan


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Re: [RBW] Re: Interesting discussion: Riv bikes v. BQ bikes

There really is no one bike to rule them all. That's why I have approximately 
10 bikes.

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Re: [RBW] Re: Interesting discussion: Riv bikes v. BQ bikes

2013-05-09 Thread Seth Vidal

There is one bike. It's whichever one I happen to be riding RIGHT NOW. :)

And then I change bikes then it's THAT ONE. :)

-sv



On Thu, May 9, 2013 at 10:10 AM, Jim Thill - Hiawatha Cyclery 
thill@gmail.com wrote:

 There really is no one bike to rule them all. That's why I have
 approximately 10 bikes.

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Re: [RBW] Re: Interesting discussion: Riv bikes v. BQ bikes

I can't argue with that!

I'm glad you meant that; I'd be disappointed if you meant the other. I
sincerely think BQ is one of the best, possibly the best, cycling mag out
today and I'm glad you keep an open mind to your tests.

On Wed, May 8, 2013 at 7:30 PM, Jan Heine hein...@earthlink.net wrote:



 On Wednesday, May 8, 2013 4:15:52 PM UTC-7, Patrick Moore wrote:

 I will also add that Jan is wrong in his general conclusion (at least,
 this is the sensus verbi) that while other bikes are OK if you don't want
 to spend a lot of money or don't really know what you like, his preferred
 types are the only ones chosen by those who have both the knowledge and
 money to get what they really want. Not proven!

 I am sorry about the misunderstanding. What I was trying to say is this:
 If you know what you want, then a bike optimized specifically for your
 preferences will usually be superior to a jack-of-all-trades that is
 designed to work with many configurations.

 What that configuration is depends on the rider and their preferences. For
 example, if you ride a lot out of the saddle, a front load usually is
 superior as it doesn't have the tail wagging the dog feel. If you like to
 ride no-hands at relatively low speeds, a rear load is better, because a
 front load needs a certain speed to become stable no-hands. And then there
 are simply preferences of what you like a bike to feel like.

 Jan Heine
 Editor
 Bicycle Quarterly
 www.bikequarterly.com

 Follow our blog at www.janheine.com

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http://resumespecialties.com/index.html
patrickmo...@resumespecialties.com

Albuquerque, NM

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Re: [RBW] New-to-me Ram - Need tires!

The Kojaks run a bit small -- haven't measured those on the Ram, but those
on the narrow semi-aero Sun rims on the '03 measure 32 mm; I assume those
on the Ram, on slightly wider rims, run at least the same. At any rate,
wider than 28 mm which was the OP's cutoff for fenders. I think there was
some talk about a gradual increase in fender clearance on this model?

(My 27 mm P-Roubaix run about 30 mm.)

On Wed, May 8, 2013 at 5:47 PM, Joe Broach joebro...@gmail.com wrote:

 On Wed, May 8, 2013 at 3:51 PM, PATRICK MOORE bertin...@gmail.com wrote:

 Do some Rams have more clearance than others? I haven't tried fenders
 yet, but on my 58 there is surely a lot of gap over 35 mm tires:


 https://picasaweb.google.com/BERTIN753/RAMBOUILLETFINALLYBUILT040613#5863925294024508226


 https://picasaweb.google.com/BERTIN753/RAMBOUILLETFINALLYBUILT040613#5863925386730853778


 Patrick,

 There's 35, and then there's 35. Schwalbes I've owned tend to run about
 10% under width. Have you measured those 'jaks? I seem to remember your 26
 versions were undersized...

 Best,
 joe broach
 portland, or

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[RBW] Re: Bombadil

2013-05-09 Thread jinxed



 WOW Kellythat looks really cool. My first thought was 60's vintage 
 Porsche 356 TOGO brown with a fawn leather interior! Total class!!


Our frames may have been roomies for a bit as my AR is at DD also! I'm 
hoping I'll hear something about it soon...this post is not helping my 
anticipation. 

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[RBW] Re: Bombadil

2013-05-09 Thread Kelly

It's worth the wait..  I look forward to seeing yours upon completion!



On Thursday, May 9, 2013 9:56:36 AM UTC-5, jinxed wrote:

 WOW Kellythat looks really cool. My first thought was 60's vintage 
 Porsche 356 TOGO brown with a fawn leather interior! Total class!!


 Our frames may have been roomies for a bit as my AR is at DD also! I'm 
 hoping I'll hear something about it soon...this post is not helping my 
 anticipation. 


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[RBW] BQ and RIV bike diffs

2013-05-09 Thread grant

I'm late to this one but jusr read Jan's thing about the way he likes bikes 
and the way I or Riv does, and so...there's really nothing he left out, or 
to add. 

One thing to keep in mind that's easy to not keep in mind is that  a group 
like this has already been filtered through progressively finer sieves 
until here we all are, comparing two species of planaria, while maybe 
losing the big picture, which includes tigers, volcanos, vaudeville, and 
black holes.
Jan's planaria is rando; RIV's is kind of classy hobo, but they're both 
practibo and in such similar ways, beautifo. Rando came in the '40s and no 
doubt had its own influences, but RHerse was at the center of it, and there 
were a few others (read Jan's book, omg, if I may!). 

CHobo bikes like ours wouldn't exist without those. I'd be hooking up with 
assorted Chinese bike factories looking for the best deals on forks and 
trying to keep abreast of the lastest nanotechnological progress in carbon, 
or something. 

So, when it comes to a little more or less trail, a little more or less 
integration of racks, and big saddlebags versus big handlebar bags---in the 
picture that's only slightly bigger than the one outside the powerful 
microscope, it's all the same. Jan's contribution is like salt's 
contribution, at least that's one way I think about it. He is thumbs-upping 
Herse and the old French guys, pointing to them, but in doing that he's 
actually making a huge contribution to modern bikes and styles and tastes, 
educating along the way. 

Of course, there's nothing TO take away from the old Frenchies (as I call 
them, but I'm sure Jan has never), but because of the size of the 
bike-riding population today, Jan is himself more influential, and I'm one 
he's influencing. Periodically, while he's up there doing his thing and I'm 
down here doing mine/RIV's, we get tossed into the ring as antagonists, 
which makes us both feel weird, sinceit ain't like that at all. I've 
known Jan for close to 20 years. What we have in common brought us together 
and keeps us that way.

His book is a masterpiece. I've read the whole thing and have dipped into 
it many times since. It's soothing to the eyes and feels like a cozy 
blanket on a chilly evening (the chilliness coming from non-planarial 
bikes!)

G

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[RBW] Re: May Spring Ride with Rain, Snell, Snow, and Abandon

It was a 6 hour solo ride. I put the panniers on to carry the extra 
clothing, which I was grateful for when the time came. Grin. So it looks 
like my camping set up, but wasn't.

With abandon,
Patrick

On Thursday, May 9, 2013 7:55:53 AM UTC-6, Mike wrote:

 Great images. Was this a camping trip or a day excursion? As always, 
 thanks for posting. Heading out myself now although just for a long solo 
 day ride.

 --mike


 On Wednesday, May 8, 2013 2:46:38 PM UTC-7, Deacon Patrick wrote:

 Woke up feeling great this morning, looked out to see rain and heavy 
 clouds and temp at 32˚F. Naturally I grabbed my gear and headed out!
 http://www.flickr.com/photos/32311885@N07/sets/72157633435488285/

 With abandon,
 Patrick

 *www.MindYourHeadCoop.org*
 *www.OurHolyConception.org*
  


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[RBW] Soma San Marcos review @ Bicycle Times

2013-05-09 Thread René Sterental

http://www.bicycletimesmag.com/content/review-soma-fabrications-san-marcos

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[RBW] BQ and RIV bike diffs

The last time I did a brevet, I saw everything from one or two Frenchish rando 
bikes of the style advocated by Jan, to numerous MMCRBs, and a strong 
representation of Rivs. I tried to ride with a guy on an Atlantis, but he was 
too fast for me. Even on brevets, there is no one kind of bike. The fastest 
finishers don't ride one kind of bike.

This kinda makes me wanna roll the next 200k on my moonlander, just to drive 
this point home.

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[RBW] Re: BQ and RIV bike diffs

2013-05-09 Thread Jan Heine

Grant,

Thank you for the kind words, but you are too generous. It's you who has 
influenced all of us, and the bike world at large. Without Rivendell, there 
never would have been Kogswell, Surly and all the other companies that have 
promoted anti-racing bikes to a large audience. Without you, there never 
would have been Bicycle Quarterly. I wrote about this a little over a year 
ago, so rather than repeat it here, listmembers can go to:

http://janheine.wordpress.com/2011/12/28/people-who-have-inspired-us-grant-petersen/

Jan Heine

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Re: [RBW] BQ and RIV bike diffs

2013-05-09 Thread Brian Hanson

Amen to the moonlander, though I wouldn't want that kind of distance on one
:)  I see all kinds of bikes on Randos, and I would say that the
traditional low-trail front bagger is in the relative minority, although it
is making inroads.

Brian
Seattle, WA


On Thu, May 9, 2013 at 9:04 AM, Jim Thill - Hiawatha Cyclery 
thill@gmail.com wrote:

 The last time I did a brevet, I saw everything from one or two Frenchish
 rando bikes of the style advocated by Jan, to numerous MMCRBs, and a strong
 representation of Rivs. I tried to ride with a guy on an Atlantis, but he
 was too fast for me. Even on brevets, there is no one kind of bike. The
 fastest finishers don't ride one kind of bike.

 This kinda makes me wanna roll the next 200k on my moonlander, just to
 drive this point home.

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[RBW] Some details on the midwest Riv and Country Bike Rally

Weather permitting, this should be a darn good time, and there should be 
plenty of high adventure. The local guys and gals are great, but I would 
LOVE to get some out-of-towners for this. I'll be proud to show off the 
best of Minnesota mixed-terrain cycling. Let me know, if you're coming from 
far away, how I can facilitate your visit. We had about 12 riders last 
year. This year I hope for 13 or 14 brave souls, at least.

http://hiawathacyclery.blogspot.com/2013/05/some-details-about-upcoming-midwest.html

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[RBW] Re: BQ and RIV bike diffs

2013-05-09 Thread RJM

classy hobo...man, I really like that.
 

On Thursday, May 9, 2013 9:59:00 AM UTC-5, grant wrote:

 I'm late to this one but jusr read Jan's thing about the way he likes 
 bikes and the way I or Riv does, and so...there's really nothing he left 
 out, or to add. 

 One thing to keep in mind that's easy to not keep in mind is that  a group 
 like this has already been filtered through progressively finer sieves 
 until here we all are, comparing two species of planaria, while maybe 
 losing the big picture, which includes tigers, volcanos, vaudeville, and 
 black holes.
 Jan's planaria is rando; RIV's is kind of classy hobo, but they're both 
 practibo and in such similar ways, beautifo. Rando came in the '40s and no 
 doubt had its own influences, but RHerse was at the center of it, and there 
 were a few others (read Jan's book, omg, if I may!). 

 CHobo bikes like ours wouldn't exist without those. I'd be hooking up with 
 assorted Chinese bike factories looking for the best deals on forks and 
 trying to keep abreast of the lastest nanotechnological progress in carbon, 
 or something. 

 So, when it comes to a little more or less trail, a little more or less 
 integration of racks, and big saddlebags versus big handlebar bags---in the 
 picture that's only slightly bigger than the one outside the powerful 
 microscope, it's all the same. Jan's contribution is like salt's 
 contribution, at least that's one way I think about it. He is thumbs-upping 
 Herse and the old French guys, pointing to them, but in doing that he's 
 actually making a huge contribution to modern bikes and styles and tastes, 
 educating along the way. 

 Of course, there's nothing TO take away from the old Frenchies (as I call 
 them, but I'm sure Jan has never), but because of the size of the 
 bike-riding population today, Jan is himself more influential, and I'm one 
 he's influencing. Periodically, while he's up there doing his thing and I'm 
 down here doing mine/RIV's, we get tossed into the ring as antagonists, 
 which makes us both feel weird, sinceit ain't like that at all. I've 
 known Jan for close to 20 years. What we have in common brought us together 
 and keeps us that way.

 His book is a masterpiece. I've read the whole thing and have dipped into 
 it many times since. It's soothing to the eyes and feels like a cozy 
 blanket on a chilly evening (the chilliness coming from non-planarial 
 bikes!)

 G


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[RBW] Re: Some details on the midwest Riv and Country Bike Rally

2013-05-09 Thread Scot Brooks

Sounds awesome, Jim. You MN people have it made. One of these years I'll 
make the trip, but for now I'll just have to stare at my Hiawatha poster 
and use my imagination. 

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[RBW] Re: BQ and RIV bike diffs

2013-05-09 Thread William

I see a CHobo cloisonne pin business opportunity on the horizon.  Put me 
in for one.  

On Thursday, May 9, 2013 7:59:00 AM UTC-7, grant wrote:

 I'm late to this one but jusr read Jan's thing about the way he likes 
 bikes and the way I or Riv does, and so...there's really nothing he left 
 out, or to add. 

 One thing to keep in mind that's easy to not keep in mind is that  a group 
 like this has already been filtered through progressively finer sieves 
 until here we all are, comparing two species of planaria, while maybe 
 losing the big picture, which includes tigers, volcanos, vaudeville, and 
 black holes.
 Jan's planaria is rando; RIV's is kind of classy hobo, but they're both 
 practibo and in such similar ways, beautifo. Rando came in the '40s and no 
 doubt had its own influences, but RHerse was at the center of it, and there 
 were a few others (read Jan's book, omg, if I may!). 

 CHobo bikes like ours wouldn't exist without those. I'd be hooking up with 
 assorted Chinese bike factories looking for the best deals on forks and 
 trying to keep abreast of the lastest nanotechnological progress in carbon, 
 or something. 

 So, when it comes to a little more or less trail, a little more or less 
 integration of racks, and big saddlebags versus big handlebar bags---in the 
 picture that's only slightly bigger than the one outside the powerful 
 microscope, it's all the same. Jan's contribution is like salt's 
 contribution, at least that's one way I think about it. He is thumbs-upping 
 Herse and the old French guys, pointing to them, but in doing that he's 
 actually making a huge contribution to modern bikes and styles and tastes, 
 educating along the way. 

 Of course, there's nothing TO take away from the old Frenchies (as I call 
 them, but I'm sure Jan has never), but because of the size of the 
 bike-riding population today, Jan is himself more influential, and I'm one 
 he's influencing. Periodically, while he's up there doing his thing and I'm 
 down here doing mine/RIV's, we get tossed into the ring as antagonists, 
 which makes us both feel weird, sinceit ain't like that at all. I've 
 known Jan for close to 20 years. What we have in common brought us together 
 and keeps us that way.

 His book is a masterpiece. I've read the whole thing and have dipped into 
 it many times since. It's soothing to the eyes and feels like a cozy 
 blanket on a chilly evening (the chilliness coming from non-planarial 
 bikes!)

 G


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[RBW] New Roadeo!

2013-05-09 Thread Trevor saxton

So much for downsizing...

I have been sick about selling off my simpleone, as I really craved a more 
lighweight single speed...when the 55cm roadeo went up for sale on the 
Rivendell site I scanned my parts bin and realized I could fufill my need a 
lighwieght 4speed bike without the expense of a customI jumped on it 
and just finished the build yesterday...behold my 4speed Roadeo!

White Industries Crank (42/26) with vintage front deraileur mated to a Paul 
Melvin Chain Tensioner and a White Industries DOS freewheelactually its 
more a  2spd bike as its a bit of work to respace the chain tensioner to 
align with the second cog.

Took it out for a 15mile cruise ride is exactly what I had hoped for, quick 
and fast and nimble while still being stable...

I am debating keeping this setup for a charity ride in early June, (200km 
over 2 days) downshifting makes quick work of short steep climbs, but not 
sure if I could grind out a long steep climb in the low gear...so may swap 
out the rear wheel and go with a conventional set up for that ride 

http://www.flickr.com/photos/78462625@N07/8723017733/in/photostream


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RE: [RBW] New Roadeo!

2013-05-09 Thread Allingham II, Thomas J

Great looking bike!

From: rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com 
[mailto:rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Trevor saxton
Sent: Thursday, May 09, 2013 2:14 PM
To: rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com
Subject: [RBW] New Roadeo!

So much for downsizing...

I have been sick about selling off my simpleone, as I really craved a more 
lighweight single speed...when the 55cm roadeo went up for sale on the 
Rivendell site I scanned my parts bin and realized I could fufill my need a 
lighwieght 4speed bike without the expense of a customI jumped on it and 
just finished the build yesterday...behold my 4speed Roadeo!

White Industries Crank (42/26) with vintage front deraileur mated to a Paul 
Melvin Chain Tensioner and a White Industries DOS freewheelactually its 
more a  2spd bike as its a bit of work to respace the chain tensioner to align 
with the second cog.

Took it out for a 15mile cruise ride is exactly what I had hoped for, quick and 
fast and nimble while still being stable...

I am debating keeping this setup for a charity ride in early June, (200km over 
2 days) downshifting makes quick work of short steep climbs, but not sure if I 
could grind out a long steep climb in the low gear...so may swap out the rear 
wheel and go with a conventional set up for that ride

http://www.flickr.com/photos/78462625@N07/8723017733/in/photostream

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unless otherwise expressly indicated, any federal tax advice contained in this 
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Re: [RBW] New Roadeo!

2013-05-09 Thread Peter Morgano

I love the simple look. If only I could lose those last 80lbs I could ride
a Rodeo... ;)


On Thu, May 9, 2013 at 2:15 PM, Allingham II, Thomas J 
thomas.alling...@skadden.com wrote:

  Great looking bike!

 ** **

 *From:* rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com [mailto:
 rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com] *On Behalf Of *Trevor saxton
 *Sent:* Thursday, May 09, 2013 2:14 PM
 *To:* rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com
 *Subject:* [RBW] New Roadeo!

 ** **

 So much for downsizing...

 ** **

 I have been sick about selling off my simpleone, as I really craved a more
 lighweight single speed...when the 55cm roadeo went up for sale on the
 Rivendell site I scanned my parts bin and realized I could fufill my need a
 lighwieght 4speed bike without the expense of a customI jumped on it
 and just finished the build yesterday...behold my 4speed Roadeo!

 ** **

 White Industries Crank (42/26) with vintage front deraileur mated to a
 Paul Melvin Chain Tensioner and a White Industries DOS
 freewheelactually its more a  2spd bike as its a bit of work to respace
 the chain tensioner to align with the second cog.

 ** **

 Took it out for a 15mile cruise ride is exactly what I had hoped for,
 quick and fast and nimble while still being stable...

 ** **

 I am debating keeping this setup for a charity ride in early June, (200km
 over 2 days) downshifting makes quick work of short steep climbs, but not
 sure if I could grind out a long steep climb in the low gear...so may swap
 out the rear wheel and go with a conventional set up for that ride 

 ** **

 http://www.flickr.com/photos/78462625@N07/8723017733/in/photostream

 ** **

 ** **

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 or (ii) promoting, marketing or recommending to another party any
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Re: [RBW] Re: BQ and RIV bike diffs

2013-05-09 Thread clyde canter

Joaquim  Chobo, friend of A. Homer Hilsen and Samuel Hillborne.


On Thu, May 9, 2013 at 1:45 PM, William tapebu...@gmail.com wrote:

 I see a CHobo cloisonne pin business opportunity on the horizon.  Put me
 in for one.


 On Thursday, May 9, 2013 7:59:00 AM UTC-7, grant wrote:

 I'm late to this one but jusr read Jan's thing about the way he likes
 bikes and the way I or Riv does, and so...there's really nothing he left
 out, or to add.

 One thing to keep in mind that's easy to not keep in mind is that  a
 group like this has already been filtered through progressively finer
 sieves until here we all are, comparing two species of planaria, while
 maybe losing the big picture, which includes tigers, volcanos, vaudeville,
 and black holes.
 Jan's planaria is rando; RIV's is kind of classy hobo, but they're both
 practibo and in such similar ways, beautifo. Rando came in the '40s and no
 doubt had its own influences, but RHerse was at the center of it, and there
 were a few others (read Jan's book, omg, if I may!).

 CHobo bikes like ours wouldn't exist without those. I'd be hooking up
 with assorted Chinese bike factories looking for the best deals on forks
 and trying to keep abreast of the lastest nanotechnological progress in
 carbon, or something.

 So, when it comes to a little more or less trail, a little more or less
 integration of racks, and big saddlebags versus big handlebar bags---in the
 picture that's only slightly bigger than the one outside the powerful
 microscope, it's all the same. Jan's contribution is like salt's
 contribution, at least that's one way I think about it. He is thumbs-upping
 Herse and the old French guys, pointing to them, but in doing that he's
 actually making a huge contribution to modern bikes and styles and tastes,
 educating along the way.

 Of course, there's nothing TO take away from the old Frenchies (as I call
 them, but I'm sure Jan has never), but because of the size of the
 bike-riding population today, Jan is himself more influential, and I'm one
 he's influencing. Periodically, while he's up there doing his thing and I'm
 down here doing mine/RIV's, we get tossed into the ring as antagonists,
 which makes us both feel weird, sinceit ain't like that at all. I've
 known Jan for close to 20 years. What we have in common brought us together
 and keeps us that way.

 His book is a masterpiece. I've read the whole thing and have dipped into
 it many times since. It's soothing to the eyes and feels like a cozy
 blanket on a chilly evening (the chilliness coming from non-planarial
 bikes!)

 G

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[RBW] Re: BQ and RIV bike diffs

Classy Hobo that's me in a nutshell, oh does that mean I need to get a 
Nutcase now :-)

I think Jan  Grant are classy guy's and what they have created in a 
largely race centric universe is a blessing. Thank you both. And in the end 
this topic which is sure to be repeated is great and leads us all through 
yet another sieve to our intended comfort within that universe of cycling.

Happy riding!

Hugh
Sunland ( it's been Summer for 2 months already) CA

On Thursday, May 9, 2013 7:59:00 AM UTC-7, grant wrote:

 I'm late to this one but jusr read Jan's thing about the way he likes 
 bikes and the way I or Riv does, and so...there's really nothing he left 
 out, or to add. 

 One thing to keep in mind that's easy to not keep in mind is that  a group 
 like this has already been filtered through progressively finer sieves 
 until here we all are, comparing two species of planaria, while maybe 
 losing the big picture, which includes tigers, volcanos, vaudeville, and 
 black holes.
 Jan's planaria is rando; RIV's is kind of classy hobo, but they're both 
 practibo and in such similar ways, beautifo. Rando came in the '40s and no 
 doubt had its own influences, but RHerse was at the center of it, and there 
 were a few others (read Jan's book, omg, if I may!). 

 CHobo bikes like ours wouldn't exist without those. I'd be hooking up with 
 assorted Chinese bike factories looking for the best deals on forks and 
 trying to keep abreast of the lastest nanotechnological progress in carbon, 
 or something. 

 So, when it comes to a little more or less trail, a little more or less 
 integration of racks, and big saddlebags versus big handlebar bags---in the 
 picture that's only slightly bigger than the one outside the powerful 
 microscope, it's all the same. Jan's contribution is like salt's 
 contribution, at least that's one way I think about it. He is thumbs-upping 
 Herse and the old French guys, pointing to them, but in doing that he's 
 actually making a huge contribution to modern bikes and styles and tastes, 
 educating along the way. 

 Of course, there's nothing TO take away from the old Frenchies (as I call 
 them, but I'm sure Jan has never), but because of the size of the 
 bike-riding population today, Jan is himself more influential, and I'm one 
 he's influencing. Periodically, while he's up there doing his thing and I'm 
 down here doing mine/RIV's, we get tossed into the ring as antagonists, 
 which makes us both feel weird, sinceit ain't like that at all. I've 
 known Jan for close to 20 years. What we have in common brought us together 
 and keeps us that way.

 His book is a masterpiece. I've read the whole thing and have dipped into 
 it many times since. It's soothing to the eyes and feels like a cozy 
 blanket on a chilly evening (the chilliness coming from non-planarial 
 bikes!)

 G


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Re: [RBW] Re: BQ and RIV bike diffs

2013-05-09 Thread Tim McNamara

I'm digging the Planaria as a new Riv model.  :-)

On May 9, 2013, at 12:01 PM, RJM crccpadu...@gmail.com wrote:

 classy hobo...man, I really like that.
  
 
 On Thursday, May 9, 2013 9:59:00 AM UTC-5, grant wrote:
 I'm late to this one but jusr read Jan's thing about the way he likes bikes 
 and the way I or Riv does, and so...there's really nothing he left out, or 
 to add. 
 
 One thing to keep in mind that's easy to not keep in mind is that  a group 
 like this has already been filtered through progressively finer sieves until 
 here we all are, comparing two species of planaria, while maybe losing the 
 big picture, which includes tigers, volcanos, vaudeville, and black holes.
 Jan's planaria is rando; RIV's is kind of classy hobo, but they're both 
 practibo and in such similar ways, beautifo. Rando came in the '40s and no 
 doubt had its own influences, but RHerse was at the center of it, and there 
 were a few others (read Jan's book, omg, if I may!). 
 
 CHobo bikes like ours wouldn't exist without those. I'd be hooking up with 
 assorted Chinese bike factories looking for the best deals on forks and 
 trying to keep abreast of the lastest nanotechnological progress in carbon, 
 or something. 
 
 So, when it comes to a little more or less trail, a little more or less 
 integration of racks, and big saddlebags versus big handlebar bags---in the 
 picture that's only slightly bigger than the one outside the powerful 
 microscope, it's all the same. Jan's contribution is like salt's 
 contribution, at least that's one way I think about it. He is thumbs-upping 
 Herse and the old French guys, pointing to them, but in doing that he's 
 actually making a huge contribution to modern bikes and styles and tastes, 
 educating along the way. 
 
 Of course, there's nothing TO take away from the old Frenchies (as I call 
 them, but I'm sure Jan has never), but because of the size of the 
 bike-riding population today, Jan is himself more influential, and I'm one 
 he's influencing. Periodically, while he's up there doing his thing and I'm 
 down here doing mine/RIV's, we get tossed into the ring as antagonists, 
 which makes us both feel weird, sinceit ain't like that at all. I've 
 known Jan for close to 20 years. What we have in common brought us together 
 and keeps us that way.
 
 His book is a masterpiece. I've read the whole thing and have dipped into it 
 many times since. It's soothing to the eyes and feels like a cozy blanket on 
 a chilly evening (the chilliness coming from non-planarial bikes!)
 
 G
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RE: [RBW] Re: BQ and RIV bike diffs

2013-05-09 Thread Allingham II, Thomas J

chobo = newbie, according to Urban Dictionary

From: rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com 
[mailto:rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of clyde canter
Sent: Thursday, May 09, 2013 2:33 PM
To: RBW Owners Bunch
Subject: Re: [RBW] Re: BQ and RIV bike diffs

Joaquim  Chobo, friend of A. Homer Hilsen and Samuel Hillborne.

On Thu, May 9, 2013 at 1:45 PM, William 
tapebu...@gmail.commailto:tapebu...@gmail.com wrote:
I see a CHobo cloisonne pin business opportunity on the horizon.  Put me in 
for one.

On Thursday, May 9, 2013 7:59:00 AM UTC-7, grant wrote:
I'm late to this one but jusr read Jan's thing about the way he likes bikes and 
the way I or Riv does, and so...there's really nothing he left out, or to add.

One thing to keep in mind that's easy to not keep in mind is that  a group like 
this has already been filtered through progressively finer sieves until here we 
all are, comparing two species of planaria, while maybe losing the big picture, 
which includes tigers, volcanos, vaudeville, and black holes.
Jan's planaria is rando; RIV's is kind of classy hobo, but they're both 
practibo and in such similar ways, beautifo. Rando came in the '40s and no 
doubt had its own influences, but RHerse was at the center of it, and there 
were a few others (read Jan's book, omg, if I may!).

CHobo bikes like ours wouldn't exist without those. I'd be hooking up with 
assorted Chinese bike factories looking for the best deals on forks and trying 
to keep abreast of the lastest nanotechnological progress in carbon, or 
something.

So, when it comes to a little more or less trail, a little more or less 
integration of racks, and big saddlebags versus big handlebar bags---in the 
picture that's only slightly bigger than the one outside the powerful 
microscope, it's all the same. Jan's contribution is like salt's contribution, 
at least that's one way I think about it. He is thumbs-upping Herse and the old 
French guys, pointing to them, but in doing that he's actually making a huge 
contribution to modern bikes and styles and tastes, educating along the way.

Of course, there's nothing TO take away from the old Frenchies (as I call them, 
but I'm sure Jan has never), but because of the size of the bike-riding 
population today, Jan is himself more influential, and I'm one he's 
influencing. Periodically, while he's up there doing his thing and I'm down 
here doing mine/RIV's, we get tossed into the ring as antagonists, which makes 
us both feel weird, sinceit ain't like that at all. I've known Jan for 
close to 20 years. What we have in common brought us together and keeps us that 
way.

His book is a masterpiece. I've read the whole thing and have dipped into it 
many times since. It's soothing to the eyes and feels like a cozy blanket on a 
chilly evening (the chilliness coming from non-planarial bikes!)

G
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[RBW] Re: New Roadeo!

2013-05-09 Thread PeterG

Trevorlove your Roadeo..someday, someday..

On Thursday, May 9, 2013 11:14:10 AM UTC-7, Trevor saxton wrote:

 So much for downsizing...

 I have been sick about selling off my simpleone, as I really craved a more 
 lighweight single speed...when the 55cm roadeo went up for sale on the 
 Rivendell site I scanned my parts bin and realized I could fufill my need a 
 lighwieght 4speed bike without the expense of a customI jumped on it 
 and just finished the build yesterday...behold my 4speed Roadeo!

 White Industries Crank (42/26) with vintage front deraileur mated to a 
 Paul Melvin Chain Tensioner and a White Industries DOS 
 freewheelactually its more a  2spd bike as its a bit of work to respace 
 the chain tensioner to align with the second cog.

 Took it out for a 15mile cruise ride is exactly what I had hoped for, 
 quick and fast and nimble while still being stable...

 I am debating keeping this setup for a charity ride in early June, (200km 
 over 2 days) downshifting makes quick work of short steep climbs, but not 
 sure if I could grind out a long steep climb in the low gear...so may swap 
 out the rear wheel and go with a conventional set up for that ride 

 http://www.flickr.com/photos/78462625@N07/8723017733/in/photostream




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[RBW] Re: Soma San Marcos review @ Bicycle Times

2013-05-09 Thread PeterG

Niceeveryone who owns one seems to really enjoy the bike

On Thursday, May 9, 2013 9:03:56 AM UTC-7, René wrote:

 http://www.bicycletimesmag.com/content/review-soma-fabrications-san-marcos




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[RBW] Raingear

I have a single layer ventile jacket. It's great for rain/wet snow 2 hours or 
less, but soaks through after that (like yesterdays 6 hour ride). I'm looking 
for ideas that meet these criteria:

-- Highly breathable. No less breathable than ventile.
-- At least as hearty against brush, briers, and branches as ventile.
-- Hood option, ideally removable/stoable.
-- Shell only for year-round use.

Im considering Hilltrek's Greenspot Double Ventile, but it is pricy. 
http://www.hillgear.com/acatalog/copy_of_Cycling_Double_Ventile_Jacket.html

Other ideas?

With abandon,
Patrick

www.MindYourHeadCoop.org
www.OurHolyConception.org

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[RBW] Re: BQ and RIV bike diffs

2013-05-09 Thread PeterG

Love the ClassyHobo thing...I picture a charlie chaplain type leaning 
against a Homer and contently looking at the world go by

On Thursday, May 9, 2013 7:59:00 AM UTC-7, grant wrote:

 I'm late to this one but jusr read Jan's thing about the way he likes 
 bikes and the way I or Riv does, and so...there's really nothing he left 
 out, or to add. 

 One thing to keep in mind that's easy to not keep in mind is that  a group 
 like this has already been filtered through progressively finer sieves 
 until here we all are, comparing two species of planaria, while maybe 
 losing the big picture, which includes tigers, volcanos, vaudeville, and 
 black holes.
 Jan's planaria is rando; RIV's is kind of classy hobo, but they're both 
 practibo and in such similar ways, beautifo. Rando came in the '40s and no 
 doubt had its own influences, but RHerse was at the center of it, and there 
 were a few others (read Jan's book, omg, if I may!). 

 CHobo bikes like ours wouldn't exist without those. I'd be hooking up with 
 assorted Chinese bike factories looking for the best deals on forks and 
 trying to keep abreast of the lastest nanotechnological progress in carbon, 
 or something. 

 So, when it comes to a little more or less trail, a little more or less 
 integration of racks, and big saddlebags versus big handlebar bags---in the 
 picture that's only slightly bigger than the one outside the powerful 
 microscope, it's all the same. Jan's contribution is like salt's 
 contribution, at least that's one way I think about it. He is thumbs-upping 
 Herse and the old French guys, pointing to them, but in doing that he's 
 actually making a huge contribution to modern bikes and styles and tastes, 
 educating along the way. 

 Of course, there's nothing TO take away from the old Frenchies (as I call 
 them, but I'm sure Jan has never), but because of the size of the 
 bike-riding population today, Jan is himself more influential, and I'm one 
 he's influencing. Periodically, while he's up there doing his thing and I'm 
 down here doing mine/RIV's, we get tossed into the ring as antagonists, 
 which makes us both feel weird, sinceit ain't like that at all. I've 
 known Jan for close to 20 years. What we have in common brought us together 
 and keeps us that way.

 His book is a masterpiece. I've read the whole thing and have dipped into 
 it many times since. It's soothing to the eyes and feels like a cozy 
 blanket on a chilly evening (the chilliness coming from non-planarial 
 bikes!)

 G


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[RBW] Re: Some details on the midwest Riv and Country Bike Rally

Note, I switched campsites at Forestville to A14. Useful info for anybody 
who wants to be sure to camp near me, or away from me.

On Thursday, May 9, 2013 12:35:54 PM UTC-5, Scot Brooks wrote:

 Sounds awesome, Jim. You MN people have it made. One of these years I'll 
 make the trip, but for now I'll just have to stare at my Hiawatha poster 
 and use my imagination. 

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[RBW] Tan Sackvilles

2013-05-09 Thread Peter M

Thought I wouldn't like them but now that the pictures are up they look 
really sharp. Might age a bit better than the greens did too since they are 
already the sandy color my greens turned in all the bends and seams. I am 
sad to see there are so few tweed offerings though. I would think tweed 
really represents Rivendell, I mean it is the background on their website 
and all...
 
 
http://www.rivbike.com/product-p/bastss-tan.htm

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[RBW] Re: Riv Suggestion Box: San Marcos

2013-05-09 Thread LBleriot


On Thursday, May 9, 2013 2:50:51 AM UTC-4, hsmitham wrote: 

  When he spoke to Riv they explained to him that the San Marcos is the 
 closest frame set they sell that emulates the ride quality of the Roadeo.
  

This is an interesting quote.  I own a Roadeo and owned a Ram.  I think 
that the San Marcos rides very similarly to the Ram.  Comfy and sure footed 
like the Ram, but not a spry as the Roadeo.

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Re: [RBW] Re: More fender advice needed

2013-05-09 Thread David Hays

Thank you, Peter.
Time to order up, I guess.
David



On May 9, 2013, at 9:58 AM, Peter Morgano uscpeter11...@gmail.com wrote:

 I did start with the Tektro silvers and found the center pulls gave me a 
 bit more room with the fenders. Most importantly they didn't squeeze the 
 fenders when I braked like the silvers did.
 
 On May 9, 2013 2:18 AM, David Hays 23writ...@gmail.com wrote:
 Peter,
 Nice work. The bikes look great.
 I see you're running center pull brakes instead of the Tektro side pulls. Do 
 you think that's giving you more clearance? Would I be well off to switch the 
 brakes before adding the fenders?
 David
 
 
 On May 8, 2013, at 4:20 PM, Peter Morgano uscpeter11...@gmail.com wrote:
 
 Re: 52mm Zeppelins over Honjos on a Homer. Took some fiddling but it is 
 possible, again some fiddling could mean 1 hour, could mean 1 day depending 
 on your handiness, def not an easy setup job but it comes out looking nice. 
 See picture in my Flikr feed.
  
 http://www.flickr.com/photos/67889635@N06/7100748813/
 
 
 On Wed, May 8, 2013 at 3:56 PM, David Hays 23writ...@gmail.com wrote:
 Does anybody have any experience fitting the 52mm VO Zeppelin fenders to a 
 Homer over 42mm Hetres?
 Thanks,
 David
 
 
 On May 8, 2013, at 3:45 PM, Minh mgiangs...@gmail.com wrote:
 
 Agreed.  Have VO and Berthoud, VO are a great value.  I love the Honjo's 
 but have never gotten over the big price difference myself.
 
 On Wednesday, May 8, 2013 8:35:35 AM UTC-4, Ron Mc wrote:
 Honjo fenders use 4mm rods, VO fenders use 5mm rods, VO fenders are 
 slightly thicker.  The VO fenders are a bargain on a great product.  
 
 On Tuesday, May 7, 2013 2:43:38 PM UTC-5, Ojiisan wrote:
 This has probably been covered already someplace on this group but I need 
 some fender advice. I've decided to get some 45mm fenders to fit over 
 700x32c tires. I'm leaning toward smooth aluminum type. I'm looking at 
 either VO fenders or Honjo fenders. Honjo fenders are over twice the price 
 of the VOs. I'd rather pay for quality to avoid disappointment but is there 
 really that much of a difference between VO and Honjo fenders? Is there 
 another fender make I might consider? Many thanks, Ojiisan
 
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Re: [RBW] Re: BQ and RIV bike diffs

2013-05-09 Thread Lee Legrand

I think Grant should write a book, How to be a bicycle riding Hobo.
Always thought about dropping out of working 9 to 5 and just be on the
road, riding without a care and living the dream.


On Thu, May 9, 2013 at 1:45 PM, William tapebu...@gmail.com wrote:

 I see a CHobo cloisonne pin business opportunity on the horizon.  Put me
 in for one.


 On Thursday, May 9, 2013 7:59:00 AM UTC-7, grant wrote:

 I'm late to this one but jusr read Jan's thing about the way he likes
 bikes and the way I or Riv does, and so...there's really nothing he left
 out, or to add.

 One thing to keep in mind that's easy to not keep in mind is that  a
 group like this has already been filtered through progressively finer
 sieves until here we all are, comparing two species of planaria, while
 maybe losing the big picture, which includes tigers, volcanos, vaudeville,
 and black holes.
 Jan's planaria is rando; RIV's is kind of classy hobo, but they're both
 practibo and in such similar ways, beautifo. Rando came in the '40s and no
 doubt had its own influences, but RHerse was at the center of it, and there
 were a few others (read Jan's book, omg, if I may!).

 CHobo bikes like ours wouldn't exist without those. I'd be hooking up
 with assorted Chinese bike factories looking for the best deals on forks
 and trying to keep abreast of the lastest nanotechnological progress in
 carbon, or something.

 So, when it comes to a little more or less trail, a little more or less
 integration of racks, and big saddlebags versus big handlebar bags---in the
 picture that's only slightly bigger than the one outside the powerful
 microscope, it's all the same. Jan's contribution is like salt's
 contribution, at least that's one way I think about it. He is thumbs-upping
 Herse and the old French guys, pointing to them, but in doing that he's
 actually making a huge contribution to modern bikes and styles and tastes,
 educating along the way.

 Of course, there's nothing TO take away from the old Frenchies (as I call
 them, but I'm sure Jan has never), but because of the size of the
 bike-riding population today, Jan is himself more influential, and I'm one
 he's influencing. Periodically, while he's up there doing his thing and I'm
 down here doing mine/RIV's, we get tossed into the ring as antagonists,
 which makes us both feel weird, sinceit ain't like that at all. I've
 known Jan for close to 20 years. What we have in common brought us together
 and keeps us that way.

 His book is a masterpiece. I've read the whole thing and have dipped into
 it many times since. It's soothing to the eyes and feels like a cozy
 blanket on a chilly evening (the chilliness coming from non-planarial
 bikes!)

 G

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[RBW] Re: May Spring Ride with Rain, Snell, Snow, and Abandon

2013-05-09 Thread Chris Lampe 2

Great photos!
 
My parents and I first visited Colorado Springs in 1975 and we fell in love 
with the place!  We ended up going back so often that my dad was on a first 
name basis with the owners of the hotels we stayed in.  Back in the late 
90's, as an adult and in fairly decent physical shape, I hauled my old Trek 
out there and rode from the main street in Manitou Springs up into the 
Garden of the Gods.  At one point I was walking the bike and two young 
women just cruise right on past me, easily pedaling and chatting away!  I 
guess I just thought I was in decent shape!  The ride thru the park was all 
that I had hoped but there was one long stretch back down to Manitou 
Springs that was very steep and I actually broke a brake cable coming down 
it.  There aren't hills like that where I live!  
 

On Wednesday, May 8, 2013 4:46:38 PM UTC-5, Deacon Patrick wrote:

 Woke up feeling great this morning, looked out to see rain and heavy 
 clouds and temp at 32˚F. Naturally I grabbed my gear and headed out!
 http://www.flickr.com/photos/32311885@N07/sets/72157633435488285/

 With abandon,
 Patrick

 *www.MindYourHeadCoop.org*
 *www.OurHolyConception.org*
  


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[RBW] Re: BQ and RIV bike diffs

2013-05-09 Thread Norman R

My idea of classy hobo.



On Thursday, May 9, 2013 3:14:51 PM UTC-4, PeterG wrote:

 Love the ClassyHobo thing...I picture a charlie chaplain type leaning 
 against a Homer and contently looking at the world go by

 On Thursday, May 9, 2013 7:59:00 AM UTC-7, grant wrote:

 I'm late to this one but jusr read Jan's thing about the way he likes 
 bikes and the way I or Riv does, and so...there's really nothing he left 
 out, or to add. 

 One thing to keep in mind that's easy to not keep in mind is that  a 
 group like this has already been filtered through progressively finer 
 sieves until here we all are, comparing two species of planaria, while 
 maybe losing the big picture, which includes tigers, volcanos, vaudeville, 
 and black holes.
 Jan's planaria is rando; RIV's is kind of classy hobo, but they're both 
 practibo and in such similar ways, beautifo. Rando came in the '40s and no 
 doubt had its own influences, but RHerse was at the center of it, and there 
 were a few others (read Jan's book, omg, if I may!). 

 CHobo bikes like ours wouldn't exist without those. I'd be hooking up 
 with assorted Chinese bike factories looking for the best deals on forks 
 and trying to keep abreast of the lastest nanotechnological progress in 
 carbon, or something. 

 So, when it comes to a little more or less trail, a little more or less 
 integration of racks, and big saddlebags versus big handlebar bags---in the 
 picture that's only slightly bigger than the one outside the powerful 
 microscope, it's all the same. Jan's contribution is like salt's 
 contribution, at least that's one way I think about it. He is thumbs-upping 
 Herse and the old French guys, pointing to them, but in doing that he's 
 actually making a huge contribution to modern bikes and styles and tastes, 
 educating along the way. 

 Of course, there's nothing TO take away from the old Frenchies (as I call 
 them, but I'm sure Jan has never), but because of the size of the 
 bike-riding population today, Jan is himself more influential, and I'm one 
 he's influencing. Periodically, while he's up there doing his thing and I'm 
 down here doing mine/RIV's, we get tossed into the ring as antagonists, 
 which makes us both feel weird, sinceit ain't like that at all. I've 
 known Jan for close to 20 years. What we have in common brought us together 
 and keeps us that way.

 His book is a masterpiece. I've read the whole thing and have dipped into 
 it many times since. It's soothing to the eyes and feels like a cozy 
 blanket on a chilly evening (the chilliness coming from non-planarial 
 bikes!)

 G



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Re: [RBW] Re: BQ and RIV bike diffs

2013-05-09 Thread Tim Gavin

the Band!!


On Thu, May 9, 2013 at 3:38 PM, Norman R norr...@gmail.com wrote:

 My idea of classy hobo.



 On Thursday, May 9, 2013 3:14:51 PM UTC-4, PeterG wrote:

 Love the ClassyHobo thing...I picture a charlie chaplain type leaning
 against a Homer and contently looking at the world go by


 On Thursday, May 9, 2013 7:59:00 AM UTC-7, grant wrote:

 I'm late to this one but jusr read Jan's thing about the way he likes
 bikes and the way I or Riv does, and so...there's really nothing he left
 out, or to add.

 One thing to keep in mind that's easy to not keep in mind is that  a
 group like this has already been filtered through progressively finer
 sieves until here we all are, comparing two species of planaria, while
 maybe losing the big picture, which includes tigers, volcanos, vaudeville,
 and black holes.
 Jan's planaria is rando; RIV's is kind of classy hobo, but they're both
 practibo and in such similar ways, beautifo. Rando came in the '40s and no
 doubt had its own influences, but RHerse was at the center of it, and there
 were a few others (read Jan's book, omg, if I may!).

 CHobo bikes like ours wouldn't exist without those. I'd be hooking up
 with assorted Chinese bike factories looking for the best deals on forks
 and trying to keep abreast of the lastest nanotechnological progress in
 carbon, or something.

 So, when it comes to a little more or less trail, a little more or less
 integration of racks, and big saddlebags versus big handlebar bags---in the
 picture that's only slightly bigger than the one outside the powerful
 microscope, it's all the same. Jan's contribution is like salt's
 contribution, at least that's one way I think about it. He is thumbs-upping
 Herse and the old French guys, pointing to them, but in doing that he's
 actually making a huge contribution to modern bikes and styles and tastes,
 educating along the way.

 Of course, there's nothing TO take away from the old Frenchies (as I
 call them, but I'm sure Jan has never), but because of the size of the
 bike-riding population today, Jan is himself more influential, and I'm one
 he's influencing. Periodically, while he's up there doing his thing and I'm
 down here doing mine/RIV's, we get tossed into the ring as antagonists,
 which makes us both feel weird, sinceit ain't like that at all. I've
 known Jan for close to 20 years. What we have in common brought us together
 and keeps us that way.

 His book is a masterpiece. I've read the whole thing and have dipped
 into it many times since. It's soothing to the eyes and feels like a cozy
 blanket on a chilly evening (the chilliness coming from non-planarial
 bikes!)

 G

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[RBW] Re: Raingear

2013-05-09 Thread Norman R

I don't know ventile, but I'd like pit zips.

On Thursday, May 9, 2013 3:14:18 PM UTC-4, Deacon Patrick wrote:

 I have a single layer ventile jacket. It's great for rain/wet snow 2 hours 
 or less, but soaks through after that (like yesterdays 6 hour ride). I'm 
 looking for ideas that meet these criteria:

 -- Highly breathable. No less breathable than ventile.
 -- At least as hearty against brush, briers, and branches as ventile.
 -- Hood option, ideally removable/stoable.
 -- Shell only for year-round use.

 Im considering Hilltrek's Greenspot Double Ventile, but it is pricy. 
 http://www.hillgear.com/acatalog/copy_of_Cycling_Double_Ventile_Jacket.html

 Other ideas?

 With abandon,
 Patrick

 *www.MindYourHeadCoop.org*
 *www.OurHolyConception.org*
  


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Re: [RBW] Re: More fender advice needed

2013-05-09 Thread Peter Morgano

I have a set of the Mod 750s in my much too large bin in the basement, free
for the price of shipping, 10 bucks I figure. They don't have pads though,
I recycled them onto another ride. Let me know offlist.


On Thu, May 9, 2013 at 10:06 AM, David Hays 23writ...@gmail.com wrote:

 Thank you, Peter.
 Time to order up, I guess.
 David



 On May 9, 2013, at 9:58 AM, Peter Morgano uscpeter11...@gmail.com wrote:

 I did start with the Tektro silvers and found the center pulls gave me a
 bit more room with the fenders. Most importantly they didn't squeeze the
 fenders when I braked like the silvers did.
 On May 9, 2013 2:18 AM, David Hays 23writ...@gmail.com wrote:

 Peter,
 Nice work. The bikes look great.
 I see you're running center pull brakes instead of the Tektro side pulls.
 Do you think that's giving you more clearance? Would I be well off to
 switch the brakes before adding the fenders?
 David


 On May 8, 2013, at 4:20 PM, Peter Morgano uscpeter11...@gmail.com
 wrote:

 Re: 52mm Zeppelins over Honjos on a Homer. Took some fiddling but it is
 possible, again some fiddling could mean 1 hour, could mean 1 day depending
 on your handiness, def not an easy setup job but it comes out looking nice.
 See picture in my Flikr feed.

 http://www.flickr.com/photos/67889635@N06/7100748813/


 On Wed, May 8, 2013 at 3:56 PM, David Hays 23writ...@gmail.com wrote:

 Does anybody have any experience fitting the 52mm VO Zeppelin fenders to
 a Homer over 42mm Hetres?
 Thanks,
 David


 On May 8, 2013, at 3:45 PM, Minh mgiangs...@gmail.com wrote:

 Agreed.  Have VO and Berthoud, VO are a great value.  I love the Honjo's
 but have never gotten over the big price difference myself.

 On Wednesday, May 8, 2013 8:35:35 AM UTC-4, Ron Mc wrote:

 Honjo fenders use 4mm rods, VO fenders use 5mm rods, VO fenders are
 slightly thicker.  The VO fenders are a bargain on a great product.

 On Tuesday, May 7, 2013 2:43:38 PM UTC-5, Ojiisan wrote:

 This has probably been covered already someplace on this group but I
 need some fender advice. I've decided to get some 45mm fenders to fit
 over 700x32c tires. I'm leaning toward smooth aluminum type. I'm
 looking at either VO fenders or Honjo fenders. Honjo fenders are over
 twice the price of the VOs. I'd rather pay for quality to avoid
 disappointment but is there really that much of a difference between VO 
 and
 Honjo fenders? Is there another fender make I might consider? Many thanks,
 Ojiisan


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[RBW] FS: 110 BCD Chain Rings

2013-05-09 Thread Anne

Too many 110 BCD rings on hand. If you're looking, many to choose from here.
All prices include postage via USPS

*48T 110BCD Chain Rings*
Specialties TA Syrius, mounted but not ridden. $60
Specialties TA SRM-branded, low mileage $45
Two FSA: One new, one barely used. $38 and $33 
Buy all four 48T rings $150

FSA 46T (110 BCD), $35  

http://i159.photobucket.com/albums/t137/RiverKnife/Current%20Sale%20Items%20posted/P1030752_zpsb4f49d82.jpg

 

http://i159.photobucket.com/albums/t137/RiverKnife/Current%20Sale%20Items%20posted/P1030753_zps655b8c8c.jpg


http://i159.photobucket.com/albums/t137/RiverKnife/Current%20Sale%20Items%20posted/46TFSA_zpsecde50e3.jpg


Contact me offlist. Thakns.

Anne/middle of the mitten

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Re: [RBW] Soma San Marcos review @ Bicycle Times

2013-05-09 Thread Steve Palincsar

On Thu, 2013-05-09 at 10:03 -0600, René Sterental wrote:
 http://www.bicycletimesmag.com/content/review-soma-fabrications-san-marcos

What do you think he means by geometry?  

For example, the following: For those of us used to more modern
geometry, the extra top tube looks like overkill, and Well, it’s
mainly about handlebar height and retro geometry to increase comfort.

What is retro geometry?

71-72.5 head angle, 71.5-71.8 degree seat angle -- perhaps not as steep
as many, even most today, but I think the expectation is the bike will
be used with a B.17 and everybody always complains about the short rails
on a B.17 not working well with steeper seat angles; and of course, if
72 is too slack the world is chock full of zero offset seat posts.

But what's any of that got to do with the double top tube?  Would anyone
here call that geometry?
  



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Re: [RBW] Re: Interesting discussion: Riv bikes v. BQ bikes

2013-05-09 Thread bobish

Thanks, Steve. Those are some awesome looking bikes (and rides). 

Perry

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[RBW] Re: Raingear

In my experience if a jacket needs ventilation zips it isn't breathable 
enough even with them.

With abandon,
Patrick

On Thursday, May 9, 2013 2:42:44 PM UTC-6, Norman R wrote:

 I don't know ventile, but I'd like pit zips.

 On Thursday, May 9, 2013 3:14:18 PM UTC-4, Deacon Patrick wrote:

 I have a single layer ventile jacket. It's great for rain/wet snow 2 
 hours or less, but soaks through after that (like yesterdays 6 hour ride). 
 I'm looking for ideas that meet these criteria:

 -- Highly breathable. No less breathable than ventile.
 -- At least as hearty against brush, briers, and branches as ventile.
 -- Hood option, ideally removable/stoable.
 -- Shell only for year-round use.

 Im considering Hilltrek's Greenspot Double Ventile, but it is pricy. 
 http://www.hillgear.com/acatalog/copy_of_Cycling_Double_Ventile_Jacket.html

 Other ideas?

 With abandon,
 Patrick

 *www.MindYourHeadCoop.org*
 *www.OurHolyConception.org*
  


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[RBW] Re: Raingear

 In the world of performance fabrics . that jacket is not all that 
expensive Patrick !!!  

You're gonna need a full on waterproof jacket for 6 hours in the rain ! 

You may look into Mountain Hardwear jackets made with DryQ fabric which 
from what I have read is really EVent fabric of some sorts. EVent being one 
of the best for the balance between waterproofness and breathing.  No water 
resistant jacket breathes great under exertion from my experience, except 
very lightweight thin softshells, which are not waterproof. 

Here's an example of a decent MH jacket , they are sold in the UK also. 
http://www.rei.com/product/845438/mountain-hardwear-trinity-jacket-mens
http://www.mountainhardwear.com/Men%27s-Trinity%E2%84%A2-Jacket/OM4501,default,pd.htmlcolorID=438

Paramo jackets might work for you too, they are in the UK too. 
http://paramo.co.uk/en-gb/garments/detail/index.php?pgc=NIKWAXANALOGYLIGHTJACKETQUITOUNISEX
http://paramo.co.uk/en-gb/garments/search/index.php

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[RBW] Re: Raingear

http://paramo.co.uk/en-gb/garments/detail/index.php?pgc=NIKWAXANALOGYJACKETPASCOMENS

http://paramo.co.uk/en-gb/garments/detail/index.php?pgc=NIKWAXANALOGYJACKETHELKIMENS

http://paramo.co.uk/en-gb/garments/detail/index.php?pgc=NIKWAXANALOGYJACKETPAJAROMENS

http://paramo.co.uk/en-gb/garments/detail/index.php?pgc=NIKWAXANALOGYJACKETHALCONMENS

http://paramo.co.uk/en-gb/garments/detail/index.php?pgc=NIKWAXANALOGYJACKETALTAIIMENS

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[RBW] Re: Cinco de Mayo Ride

2013-05-09 Thread Ryan

Man...that bike is a beauty...I love the Harlequin tape job. How do you 
like those TRP levers?
On Sunday, May 5, 2013 5:15:44 PM UTC-5, stonehog wrote: 

 I took the Homer out for a ride in summer-like Seattle today to explore 
 some roads a bit north.  Perfect day on road and gravel.  Climbing dirt is 
 pretty easy on the Cypres-shod Hilsen.  Good bits included some fast Paul 
 Racer brake-testing descents (worked perfectly) at about 40 mph, and a nice 
 single-track climb up from the Sound.  The Homer can climb like a cross 
 country bike! 

 http://flic.kr/s/aHsjEYnmQr

 Brian Hanson
 Seattle, WA


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[RBW] Re: Raingear

Thanks, Garth. For clarity's sake, I'm in Colorado, USA, not the UK.
Ventile jackets are made there. I will check out the links you sent.

With abandon,
Patrick

On Thursday, May 9, 2013 4:04:10 PM UTC-6, Garth wrote:

In the world of performance fabrics . that jacket is not all that
expensive Patrick !!!

You're gonna need a full on waterproof jacket for 6 hours in the rain !

You may look into Mountain Hardwear jackets made with DryQ fabric which
from what I have read is really EVent fabric of some sorts. EVent being one
of the best for the balance between waterproofness and breathing. No water
resistant jacket breathes great under exertion from my experience, except
very lightweight thin softshells, which are not waterproof.

Here's an example of a decent MH jacket , they are sold in the UK also.
http://www.rei.com/product/845438/mountain-hardwear-trinity-jacket-mens

http://www.mountainhardwear.com/Men%27s-Trinity%E2%84%A2-Jacket/OM4501,default,pd.htmlcolorID=438

Paramo jackets might work for you too, they are in the UK too.

http://paramo.co.uk/en-gb/garments/detail/index.php?pgc=NIKWAXANALOGYLIGHTJACKETQUITOUNISEX
http://paramo.co.uk/en-gb/garments/search/index.php

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[RBW] Re: Raingear

2013-05-09 Thread bwphoto

There was a pretty extensive discussion on rain gear back in September
here's the link:
https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topicsearchin/rbw-owners-bunch/rain$20jackets$20rain$20gear/rbw-owners-bunch/IBOM1NYLOzY

I used to work in the outdoor industry and have to say that after testing
everything from Marmot to Patagonia and mountain Hardware I really never
found anything that would keep me dry in sustained rain. Most of the
membrane type fabrics work on the principle of pressure differential
between the outside and the inside, so if it is hot and humid and raining
and you are naturally hot inside the fabric will only breath if the outside
pressure is less than the inside. This kind of rules out warm weather use
and explains the clamminess felt inside a jacket while riding or running or
even walking. So if you are like me and you sweat prolifically at just
about any temp then membrane s don't work well over time.

The other issue is most of them have DWR (durable water repellant) coating
applied during manufacture which helps the water bead, but that coating
doesn't last and will wear off depending on use and storage. It can be
reapplied with Nikwax but I have not seen much success with its'
durability.

Laminated membrane fabrics really excel as wind barriers that's why they
are the material of choice for climbers and others.

Laminated membrane based fabrics work fairly well in light rain in cool
temps, like winter in Oregon and Washington, but as soon as the air inside
of the jacket starts warming and the difference between the inside and
outside starts to increase outside the jacket the membrane can't breath
because there is to much pressure outside to allow the moisture on the
inside to pass through.

I've found for me (the sweat king) the best solution is either fleece or
wool mid layer combined with a thin base layer under a well vented semi
breathable jacket, as long as I have air flow that can help dissipate the
moisture wicked by the other layers I can stay relatively dry and warm as
long as those fabrics wick well.

Finally, the other thing to remember is that laminated membranes do
delaminate making them pretty much useless. Most companies will replace
delaminated garments as long as they haven't been abused. It is also
possible for delamination to occur when a garment is stuffed in bike bag or
left in a hot car.

Based on the info in the September discussion it looks like the rain
jackets made by JG Clothing
http://www.bicycleclothing.com/Waterproof-Rain-Jackets.htmlmight be a
good option.

On Thursday, May 9, 2013 2:14:18 PM UTC-5, Deacon Patrick wrote:

I have a single layer ventile jacket. It's great for rain/wet snow 2 hours
or less, but soaks through after that (like yesterdays 6 hour ride). I'm
looking for ideas that meet these criteria:

-- Highly breathable. No less breathable than ventile.
-- At least as hearty against brush, briers, and branches as ventile.
-- Hood option, ideally removable/stoable.
-- Shell only for year-round use.

Im considering Hilltrek's Greenspot Double Ventile, but it is pricy.
http://www.hillgear.com/acatalog/copy_of_Cycling_Double_Ventile_Jacket.html

Other ideas?

With abandon,
Patrick

*www.MindYourHeadCoop.org*
*www.OurHolyConception.org*

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Re: [RBW] Re: Raingear

2013-05-09 Thread Tim McNamara

Raingear simply doesn't work at keeping you dry if you are doing something like 
riding up a hill.  There is no point in worrying about staying dry because it's 
not going to happen.  You are either going to get wet from rain or wet from 
sweat.  The main thing is to avoid hypothermia if it is cool and wet, 
especially when descending.

My single layer Ventile jacket is one of the best breathing jackets I have 
used, but it is a showerproof rather than rainproof jacket.  The Greenspot 
jacket is double layered Ventile- less breathable but resistant to water 
intrusion longer.

As for rain jackets, my Showers Pass is the best I have used.  It is well 
ventilated and made from eVent material.  It won't keep you dry for 6 hours in 
a downpour, but then in those cases you should probably be indoors.  ;-)  In a 
long soaking rain with little wind, I would prefer my Carradice rain cape.  The 
ventilation is about as good as it gets and just the tops of my arms and 
shoulders get damp with sweat.



On May 9, 2013, at 4:53 PM, Deacon Patrick lamontg...@mac.com wrote:

 In my experience if a jacket needs ventilation zips it isn't breathable 
 enough even with them.
 
 With abandon,
 Patrick
 
 On Thursday, May 9, 2013 2:42:44 PM UTC-6, Norman R wrote:
 
 I don't know ventile, but I'd like pit zips.
 
 On Thursday, May 9, 2013 3:14:18 PM UTC-4, Deacon Patrick wrote:
 
 I have a single layer ventile jacket. It's great for rain/wet snow 2 hours 
 or less, but soaks through after that (like yesterdays 6 hour ride). I'm 
 looking for ideas that meet these criteria:
 
 -- Highly breathable. No less breathable than ventile.
 -- At least as hearty against brush, briers, and branches as ventile.
 -- Hood option, ideally removable/stoable.
 -- Shell only for year-round use.
 
 Im considering Hilltrek's Greenspot Double Ventile, but it is pricy. 
 http://www.hillgear.com/acatalog/copy_of_Cycling_Double_Ventile_Jacket.html
 
 Other ideas?
 
 With abandon,
 Patrick
 
 www.MindYourHeadCoop.org
 www.OurHolyConception.org
 
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[RBW] Re: Raingear

Thanks, bwphoto. I suspect I'll stick with my single ventile layer and
possibly get the double layer down the road. It's breathability, high water
resistance (at single layer, cant' speak to double layer yet), heartiness,
and complete lack of crinkling (a big deal for my brain) make it the best
option. My experience matches yours -- I've gotten wet in longer rains no
matter what I'm wearing (Actually less wet with my ventile than all
others), and that includes high tech fabrics in cold temps, so there is a
pressure differential. Ventile is the best thing I've used (and I've tried
nearly everything, as of 5 years ago). When it's 70 or warmer and raining,
what's the point of a rain coat? I just wear my shirt and shorts and
delight in the wet. It's the all day rains of spring and fall that are near
freezing that are the deadliest weather, but some great times to be out
camping.

With abandon,
Patrick

On Thursday, May 9, 2013 4:59:34 PM UTC-6, bwphoto wrote:

The other issue is most of them have DWR (durable water repellant)
coating applied during manufacture which helps the water bead, but that
coating doesn't last and will wear off depending on use and storage. It can
be reapplied with Nikwax but I have not seen much success with its'
durability.

Laminated membrane fabrics really excel as wind barriers that's why they
are the material of choice for climbers and others.

Based on the info in the September discussion it looks like the rain
jackets made by JG Clothing
http://www.bicycleclothing.com/Waterproof-Rain-Jackets.htmlmight be a
good option.

On Thursday, May 9, 2013 2:14:18 PM UTC-5, Deacon Patrick wrote:

I have a single layer ventile jacket. It's great for rain/wet snow 2
hours or less, but soaks through after that (like yesterdays 6 hour ride).
I'm looking for ideas that meet these criteria:

Im considering Hilltrek's Greenspot Double Ventile, but it is pricy.
http://www.hillgear.com/acatalog/copy_of_Cycling_Double_Ventile_Jacket.html

Other ideas?

With abandon,
Patrick

*www.MindYourHeadCoop.org*
*www.OurHolyConception.org*

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Re: [RBW] Re: Raingear

Thanks, Tim. Do you, or anyone else on the list, have experience with how 
much more double ventile works than single?

What sent me searching is not anything directly from yesterday, but had I 
been out camping yesterday, I would have loved to be less damp when I 
stopped cycling. My core was lightly damp, my arms wringably damp but not 
soaked and I was toasty warm.

With abandon,
Patrick

On Thursday, May 9, 2013 5:14:41 PM UTC-6, Tim McNamara wrote:

 Raingear simply doesn't work at keeping you dry if you are doing something 
 like riding up a hill.  There is no point in worrying about staying dry 
 because it's not going to happen.  You are either going to get wet from 
 rain or wet from sweat.  The main thing is to avoid hypothermia if it is 
 cool and wet, especially when descending.

 My single layer Ventile jacket is one of the best breathing jackets I 
 have used, but it is a showerproof rather than rainproof jacket.  The 
 Greenspot jacket is double layered Ventile- less breathable but resistant 
 to water intrusion longer.

 As for rain jackets, my Showers Pass is the best I have used.  It is 
 well ventilated and made from eVent material.  It won't keep you dry for 6 
 hours in a downpour, but then in those cases you should probably be 
 indoors.  ;-)  In a long soaking rain with little wind, I would prefer my 
 Carradice rain cape.  The ventilation is about as good as it gets and just 
 the tops of my arms and shoulders get damp with sweat.



 On May 9, 2013, at 4:53 PM, Deacon Patrick lamon...@mac.com javascript: 
 wrote:

 In my experience if a jacket needs ventilation zips it isn't breathable 
 enough even with them.

 With abandon,
 Patrick

 On Thursday, May 9, 2013 2:42:44 PM UTC-6, Norman R wrote:

 I don't know ventile, but I'd like pit zips.

 On Thursday, May 9, 2013 3:14:18 PM UTC-4, Deacon Patrick wrote:

 I have a single layer ventile jacket. It's great for rain/wet snow 2 
 hours or less, but soaks through after that (like yesterdays 6 hour ride). 
 I'm looking for ideas that meet these criteria:

 -- Highly breathable. No less breathable than ventile.
 -- At least as hearty against brush, briers, and branches as ventile.
 -- Hood option, ideally removable/stoable.
 -- Shell only for year-round use.

 Im considering Hilltrek's Greenspot Double Ventile, but it is pricy. 
 http://www.hillgear.com/acatalog/copy_of_Cycling_Double_Ventile_Jacket.html

 Other ideas?

 With abandon,
 Patrick

 *www.MindYourHeadCoop.org*
 *www.OurHolyConception.org*
  
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[RBW] Re: Bombadil

2013-05-09 Thread Montclair BobbyB

Beautiful color combo!

On Thursday, May 9, 2013 10:58:01 AM UTC-4, Kelly wrote:

 It's worth the wait..  I look forward to seeing yours upon completion!



 On Thursday, May 9, 2013 9:56:36 AM UTC-5, jinxed wrote:

 WOW Kellythat looks really cool. My first thought was 60's vintage 
 Porsche 356 TOGO brown with a fawn leather interior! Total class!!


 Our frames may have been roomies for a bit as my AR is at DD also! I'm 
 hoping I'll hear something about it soon...this post is not helping my 
 anticipation. 



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Re: [RBW] Re: BQ and RIV bike diffs

2013-05-09 Thread cyclotourist

Hipsters!

Cheers,
David



On Thu, May 9, 2013 at 1:39 PM, Tim Gavin tim.ga...@littlevillagemag.comwrote:

 the Band!!


 On Thu, May 9, 2013 at 3:38 PM, Norman R norr...@gmail.com wrote:

 My idea of classy hobo.



 On Thursday, May 9, 2013 3:14:51 PM UTC-4, PeterG wrote:

 Love the ClassyHobo thing...I picture a charlie chaplain type leaning
 against a Homer and contently looking at the world go by


 On Thursday, May 9, 2013 7:59:00 AM UTC-7, grant wrote:

 I'm late to this one but jusr read Jan's thing about the way he likes
 bikes and the way I or Riv does, and so...there's really nothing he left
 out, or to add.

 One thing to keep in mind that's easy to not keep in mind is that  a
 group like this has already been filtered through progressively finer
 sieves until here we all are, comparing two species of planaria, while
 maybe losing the big picture, which includes tigers, volcanos, vaudeville,
 and black holes.
 Jan's planaria is rando; RIV's is kind of classy hobo, but they're both
 practibo and in such similar ways, beautifo. Rando came in the '40s and no
 doubt had its own influences, but RHerse was at the center of it, and there
 were a few others (read Jan's book, omg, if I may!).

 CHobo bikes like ours wouldn't exist without those. I'd be hooking up
 with assorted Chinese bike factories looking for the best deals on forks
 and trying to keep abreast of the lastest nanotechnological progress in
 carbon, or something.

 So, when it comes to a little more or less trail, a little more or less
 integration of racks, and big saddlebags versus big handlebar bags---in the
 picture that's only slightly bigger than the one outside the powerful
 microscope, it's all the same. Jan's contribution is like salt's
 contribution, at least that's one way I think about it. He is thumbs-upping
 Herse and the old French guys, pointing to them, but in doing that he's
 actually making a huge contribution to modern bikes and styles and tastes,
 educating along the way.

 Of course, there's nothing TO take away from the old Frenchies (as I
 call them, but I'm sure Jan has never), but because of the size of the
 bike-riding population today, Jan is himself more influential, and I'm one
 he's influencing. Periodically, while he's up there doing his thing and I'm
 down here doing mine/RIV's, we get tossed into the ring as antagonists,
 which makes us both feel weird, sinceit ain't like that at all. I've
 known Jan for close to 20 years. What we have in common brought us together
 and keeps us that way.

 His book is a masterpiece. I've read the whole thing and have dipped
 into it many times since. It's soothing to the eyes and feels like a cozy
 blanket on a chilly evening (the chilliness coming from non-planarial
 bikes!)

 G

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Re: [RBW] Re: BQ and RIV bike diffs

2013-05-09 Thread Eric Platt

Hobo.  This has sort of been my unofficial cycling mantra for most of my
riding time.  Back in the 1980's it was influenced by folks like Dennis
Coello, Charlie Kelly, and the folks at Mountain Bike for the Adventure.
Riding all roads and adjusting the bike to the upcoming use.

Although have never been able to pull off the sartorial splendor that folks
like Grant or Jim Thill can pull off with ease.
Eric Platt
St. Paul, MN


On Thu, May 9, 2013 at 7:31 PM, cyclotourist cyclotour...@gmail.com wrote:

 Hipsters!

 Cheers,
 David






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[RBW] Re: BQ and RIV bike diffs

Hey Norman get out of my head!  :-) 

The greatest Hobo Band ever. RIP Richard, Rick  Levon. My sound track 
through life.

Hugh

On Thursday, May 9, 2013 1:38:33 PM UTC-7, Norman R wrote:

 My idea of classy hobo.



 On Thursday, May 9, 2013 3:14:51 PM UTC-4, PeterG wrote:

 Love the ClassyHobo thing...I picture a charlie chaplain type leaning 
 against a Homer and contently looking at the world go by

 On Thursday, May 9, 2013 7:59:00 AM UTC-7, grant wrote:

 I'm late to this one but jusr read Jan's thing about the way he likes 
 bikes and the way I or Riv does, and so...there's really nothing he left 
 out, or to add. 

 One thing to keep in mind that's easy to not keep in mind is that  a 
 group like this has already been filtered through progressively finer 
 sieves until here we all are, comparing two species of planaria, while 
 maybe losing the big picture, which includes tigers, volcanos, vaudeville, 
 and black holes.
 Jan's planaria is rando; RIV's is kind of classy hobo, but they're both 
 practibo and in such similar ways, beautifo. Rando came in the '40s and no 
 doubt had its own influences, but RHerse was at the center of it, and there 
 were a few others (read Jan's book, omg, if I may!). 

 CHobo bikes like ours wouldn't exist without those. I'd be hooking up 
 with assorted Chinese bike factories looking for the best deals on forks 
 and trying to keep abreast of the lastest nanotechnological progress in 
 carbon, or something. 

 So, when it comes to a little more or less trail, a little more or less 
 integration of racks, and big saddlebags versus big handlebar bags---in the 
 picture that's only slightly bigger than the one outside the powerful 
 microscope, it's all the same. Jan's contribution is like salt's 
 contribution, at least that's one way I think about it. He is thumbs-upping 
 Herse and the old French guys, pointing to them, but in doing that he's 
 actually making a huge contribution to modern bikes and styles and tastes, 
 educating along the way. 

 Of course, there's nothing TO take away from the old Frenchies (as I 
 call them, but I'm sure Jan has never), but because of the size of the 
 bike-riding population today, Jan is himself more influential, and I'm one 
 he's influencing. Periodically, while he's up there doing his thing and I'm 
 down here doing mine/RIV's, we get tossed into the ring as antagonists, 
 which makes us both feel weird, sinceit ain't like that at all. I've 
 known Jan for close to 20 years. What we have in common brought us together 
 and keeps us that way.

 His book is a masterpiece. I've read the whole thing and have dipped 
 into it many times since. It's soothing to the eyes and feels like a cozy 
 blanket on a chilly evening (the chilliness coming from non-planarial 
 bikes!)

 G



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[RBW] Re: BQ and RIV bike diffs

That last was meant for Tim :-)

Hugh

On Thursday, May 9, 2013 5:58:28 PM UTC-7, hsmitham wrote:

 Hey Norman get out of my head!  :-) 

 The greatest Hobo Band ever. RIP Richard, Rick  Levon. My sound track 
 through life.

 Hugh

 On Thursday, May 9, 2013 1:38:33 PM UTC-7, Norman R wrote:

 My idea of classy hobo.



 On Thursday, May 9, 2013 3:14:51 PM UTC-4, PeterG wrote:

 Love the ClassyHobo thing...I picture a charlie chaplain type leaning 
 against a Homer and contently looking at the world go by

 On Thursday, May 9, 2013 7:59:00 AM UTC-7, grant wrote:

 I'm late to this one but jusr read Jan's thing about the way he likes 
 bikes and the way I or Riv does, and so...there's really nothing he left 
 out, or to add. 

 One thing to keep in mind that's easy to not keep in mind is that  a 
 group like this has already been filtered through progressively finer 
 sieves until here we all are, comparing two species of planaria, while 
 maybe losing the big picture, which includes tigers, volcanos, vaudeville, 
 and black holes.
 Jan's planaria is rando; RIV's is kind of classy hobo, but they're both 
 practibo and in such similar ways, beautifo. Rando came in the '40s and no 
 doubt had its own influences, but RHerse was at the center of it, and 
 there 
 were a few others (read Jan's book, omg, if I may!). 

 CHobo bikes like ours wouldn't exist without those. I'd be hooking up 
 with assorted Chinese bike factories looking for the best deals on forks 
 and trying to keep abreast of the lastest nanotechnological progress in 
 carbon, or something. 

 So, when it comes to a little more or less trail, a little more or less 
 integration of racks, and big saddlebags versus big handlebar bags---in 
 the 
 picture that's only slightly bigger than the one outside the powerful 
 microscope, it's all the same. Jan's contribution is like salt's 
 contribution, at least that's one way I think about it. He is 
 thumbs-upping 
 Herse and the old French guys, pointing to them, but in doing that he's 
 actually making a huge contribution to modern bikes and styles and tastes, 
 educating along the way. 

 Of course, there's nothing TO take away from the old Frenchies (as I 
 call them, but I'm sure Jan has never), but because of the size of the 
 bike-riding population today, Jan is himself more influential, and I'm one 
 he's influencing. Periodically, while he's up there doing his thing and 
 I'm 
 down here doing mine/RIV's, we get tossed into the ring as antagonists, 
 which makes us both feel weird, sinceit ain't like that at all. I've 
 known Jan for close to 20 years. What we have in common brought us 
 together 
 and keeps us that way.

 His book is a masterpiece. I've read the whole thing and have dipped 
 into it many times since. It's soothing to the eyes and feels like a cozy 
 blanket on a chilly evening (the chilliness coming from non-planarial 
 bikes!)

 G



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[RBW] Long shot, but still: WTT: Pro 5 Vis 170, choice (limited) of rings, for 7400 Dura Ace set

Like this:
http://velobase.com/ViewComponent.aspx?ID=5036294f-5a71-4fdd-926b-e711d573964aEnum=115

170 mm please, and 52/42 rings are fine -- will run with really big cogs
(one of the blessed advantages of cassettes).

My set can be seen here:
https://picasaweb.google.com/BERTIN753/RAMBOUILLETFINALLYBUILT040613#5863925457012612578

170 mm also, used but vg, with NOS* 44 and 30 rings, but I've got a small
selection of others. Note that I use innies as outies.

* They were NOS when I installed them about 150 miles ago.

Will be open to swapping bbs with cranksets; the OEM Dura Ace will suit.
Mine is an assym 115 Phil, older but very smooth.

-- 

http://resumespecialties.com/index.html
patrickmo...@resumespecialties.com

Albuquerque, NM

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Re: [RBW] New Roadeo!

Neat! Before reading the text entirely I was puzzling about that bell on
the right side -- howtheheck? etc. Me, I'd run a 1xN and put the bell on
the left. Or, I'd find a rod-actualed fd for the ultimate in style and
oddity.

How do you like the ride? How does it compare with the erstwhile SimpleOne?
And do I see JB Greens?

On Thu, May 9, 2013 at 12:14 PM, Trevor saxton saxton...@gmail.com wrote:

 So much for downsizing...

 I have been sick about selling off my simpleone, as I really craved a more
 lighweight single speed...when the 55cm roadeo went up for sale on the
 Rivendell site I scanned my parts bin and realized I could fufill my need a
 lighwieght 4speed bike without the expense of a customI jumped on it
 and just finished the build yesterday...behold my 4speed Roadeo!

 White Industries Crank (42/26) with vintage front deraileur mated to a
 Paul Melvin Chain Tensioner and a White Industries DOS
 freewheelactually its more a  2spd bike as its a bit of work to respace
 the chain tensioner to align with the second cog.

 Took it out for a 15mile cruise ride is exactly what I had hoped for,
 quick and fast and nimble while still being stable...

 I am debating keeping this setup for a charity ride in early June, (200km
 over 2 days) downshifting makes quick work of short steep climbs, but not
 sure if I could grind out a long steep climb in the low gear...so may swap
 out the rear wheel and go with a conventional set up for that ride

 http://www.flickr.com/photos/78462625@N07/8723017733/in/photostream


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[RBW] Re: BQ and RIV bike diffs

2013-05-09 Thread Norman R

I felt it here:  
http://www.flickr.com/photos/norro/8651662543/in/set-72157633249441487/

On Thursday, May 9, 2013 9:00:17 PM UTC-4, hsmitham wrote:

 That last was meant for Tim :-)

 Hugh

 On Thursday, May 9, 2013 5:58:28 PM UTC-7, hsmitham wrote:

 Hey Norman get out of my head!  :-) 

 The greatest Hobo Band ever. RIP Richard, Rick  Levon. My sound track 
 through life.

 Hugh

 On Thursday, May 9, 2013 1:38:33 PM UTC-7, Norman R wrote:

 My idea of classy hobo.



 On Thursday, May 9, 2013 3:14:51 PM UTC-4, PeterG wrote:

 Love the ClassyHobo thing...I picture a charlie chaplain type leaning 
 against a Homer and contently looking at the world go by

 On Thursday, May 9, 2013 7:59:00 AM UTC-7, grant wrote:

 I'm late to this one but jusr read Jan's thing about the way he likes 
 bikes and the way I or Riv does, and so...there's really nothing he left 
 out, or to add. 

 One thing to keep in mind that's easy to not keep in mind is that  a 
 group like this has already been filtered through progressively finer 
 sieves until here we all are, comparing two species of planaria, while 
 maybe losing the big picture, which includes tigers, volcanos, 
 vaudeville, 
 and black holes.
 Jan's planaria is rando; RIV's is kind of classy hobo, but they're 
 both practibo and in such similar ways, beautifo. Rando came in the '40s 
 and no doubt had its own influences, but RHerse was at the center of it, 
 and there were a few others (read Jan's book, omg, if I may!). 

 CHobo bikes like ours wouldn't exist without those. I'd be hooking up 
 with assorted Chinese bike factories looking for the best deals on forks 
 and trying to keep abreast of the lastest nanotechnological progress in 
 carbon, or something. 

 So, when it comes to a little more or less trail, a little more or 
 less integration of racks, and big saddlebags versus big handlebar 
 bags---in the picture that's only slightly bigger than the one outside 
 the 
 powerful microscope, it's all the same. Jan's contribution is like salt's 
 contribution, at least that's one way I think about it. He is 
 thumbs-upping 
 Herse and the old French guys, pointing to them, but in doing that he's 
 actually making a huge contribution to modern bikes and styles and 
 tastes, 
 educating along the way. 

 Of course, there's nothing TO take away from the old Frenchies (as I 
 call them, but I'm sure Jan has never), but because of the size of the 
 bike-riding population today, Jan is himself more influential, and I'm 
 one 
 he's influencing. Periodically, while he's up there doing his thing and 
 I'm 
 down here doing mine/RIV's, we get tossed into the ring as antagonists, 
 which makes us both feel weird, sinceit ain't like that at all. I've 
 known Jan for close to 20 years. What we have in common brought us 
 together 
 and keeps us that way.

 His book is a masterpiece. I've read the whole thing and have dipped 
 into it many times since. It's soothing to the eyes and feels like a cozy 
 blanket on a chilly evening (the chilliness coming from non-planarial 
 bikes!)

 G



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Re: [RBW] Re: Raingear

2013-05-09 Thread Lyle Bogart

Deacon, I'm coming late to this thread but I'll add my thoughts anyway.
I've used many different shells for a variety of activities such as
cycling, running including mountain and trail running, climbing, skiing,
and on and on. I've really enjoyed this jacket:

http://www.bicycleclothing.com/Waterproof-Breathable-Rain-Jackets.html

I've used it cycling, running, and bouldering in the high desert area of
Arizona when I worked on the Navajo Reservation, Cycling, rowing, and
running in the Pacific Northwest, and now out here in mid-coast Maine. It
is tough as nails, very well thought out, and due to the benefits of the
long pit zips and vented back, I've stayed dry enough (whatever that
means), neither soaked from within or without.

Made in the US for what that's worth and a decent price as well.

Cheers!

lyle

On 9 May 2013 19:49, Deacon Patrick lamontg...@mac.com wrote:

Thanks, Tim. Do you, or anyone else on the list, have experience with how
much more double ventile works than single?

What sent me searching is not anything directly from yesterday, but had I
been out camping yesterday, I would have loved to be less damp when I
stopped cycling. My core was lightly damp, my arms wringably damp but not
soaked and I was toasty warm.

With abandon,
Patrick

On Thursday, May 9, 2013 5:14:41 PM UTC-6, Tim McNamara wrote:

Raingear simply doesn't work at keeping you dry if you are doing
something like riding up a hill. There is no point in worrying about
staying dry because it's not going to happen. You are either going to get
wet from rain or wet from sweat. The main thing is to avoid hypothermia if
it is cool and wet, especially when descending.

My single layer Ventile jacket is one of the best breathing jackets I
have used, but it is a showerproof rather than rainproof jacket. The
Greenspot jacket is double layered Ventile- less breathable but resistant
to water intrusion longer.

As for rain jackets, my Showers Pass is the best I have used. It is
well ventilated and made from eVent material. It won't keep you dry for 6
hours in a downpour, but then in those cases you should probably be
indoors. ;-) In a long soaking rain with little wind, I would prefer my
Carradice rain cape. The ventilation is about as good as it gets and just
the tops of my arms and shoulders get damp with sweat.

On May 9, 2013, at 4:53 PM, Deacon Patrick lamon...@mac.com wrote:

In my experience if a jacket needs ventilation zips it isn't breathable
enough even with them.

With abandon,
Patrick

On Thursday, May 9, 2013 2:42:44 PM UTC-6, Norman R wrote:

I don't know ventile, but I'd like pit zips.

On Thursday, May 9, 2013 3:14:18 PM UTC-4, Deacon Patrick wrote:

I have a single layer ventile jacket. It's great for rain/wet snow 2
hours or less, but soaks through after that (like yesterdays 6 hour ride).
I'm looking for ideas that meet these criteria:

Im considering Hilltrek's Greenspot Double Ventile, but it is pricy.
http://www.hillgear.**com/acatalog/copy_of_Cycling_**
Double_Ventile_Jacket.htmlhttp://www.hillgear.com/acatalog/copy_of_Cycling_Double_Ventile_Jacket.html

Other ideas?

With abandon,
Patrick

*www.MindYourHeadCoop.org*
*www.OurHolyConception.org*

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Re: [RBW] Re: Riv Suggestion Box: San Marcos

When you say spry, do you mean acceleration or turning? curious because
my new-to-me Ram feels outstanding in handling but somewhat sluggish
compared to my customs, even the 559X1.35 Kojak-shod one I rode today. Not
that, in this instance, it's a matter for anguish, since the Ram fills a
wonderful niche for me (fun sport tourer that handles heavy grocery loads),
but I'm curious.

Did your (well, those your rode) Ram and Rod have the same tires?

On Thu, May 9, 2013 at 2:00 PM, LBleriot gary.sch...@att.net wrote:



 This is an interesting quote.  I own a Roadeo and owned a Ram.  I think
 that the San Marcos rides very similarly to the Ram.  Comfy and sure footed
 like the Ram, but not a spry as the Roadeo.



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Re: [RBW] Re: Raingear

Thank you, Lyle. Could you do me a favor and tell me how much noise it
makes compared to a cotton chambray shirt? I generally avoid nylon because
it makes more noise than that.

With abandon,
Patrick

On Thursday, May 9, 2013 7:23:17 PM UTC-6, LyleBogart{AT}gmail.com wrote:

http://www.bicycleclothing.com/Waterproof-Breathable-Rain-Jackets.html

Made in the US for what that's worth and a decent price as well.

Cheers!

lyle

On 9 May 2013 19:49, Deacon Patrick lamon...@mac.com javascript:wrote:

Thanks, Tim. Do you, or anyone else on the list, have experience with how
much more double ventile works than single?

With abandon,
Patrick

On Thursday, May 9, 2013 5:14:41 PM UTC-6, Tim McNamara wrote:

On May 9, 2013, at 4:53 PM, Deacon Patrick lamon...@mac.com wrote:

In my experience if a jacket needs ventilation zips it isn't breathable
enough even with them.

With abandon,
Patrick

On Thursday, May 9, 2013 2:42:44 PM UTC-6, Norman R wrote:

I don't know ventile, but I'd like pit zips.

On Thursday, May 9, 2013 3:14:18 PM UTC-4, Deacon Patrick wrote:

I have a single layer ventile jacket. It's great for rain/wet snow 2
hours or less, but soaks through after that (like yesterdays 6 hour
ride).
I'm looking for ideas that meet these criteria:

Other ideas?

With abandon,
Patrick

*www.MindYourHeadCoop.org*
*www.OurHolyConception.org*

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[RBW] Re: Raingear



 Seeing what you prefer Patrick, I also saw this jacket and others , made 
with cotton .
http://www.thewashingmachinepost.net/vulpine/rainjacket/review.html
http://road.cc/content/review/69458-vulpine-cotton-rain-jacket
http://www.vulpine.cc/Shop/Rainwear/ICAT1011/MENS-ORIGINAL-COTTON-RAIN-JACKET/ITM1005
http://www.vulpine.cc/Shop/Rainwear/ICAT1011

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Re: [RBW] Re: Interesting discussion: Riv bikes v. BQ bikes