Re: [RBW] A College Clem

['John Phillips' via RBW Owners Bunch]

Doug, I was addressing Leah's response to John Hawrylak's question, not 
your posting.

John


On Tuesday, August 15, 2023 at 11:02:16 AM UTC-7 Doug H. wrote:

> John,
> I took the question exactly as Leah interpreted it. The triple question 
> mark at the end of the question was pretty emphatic. Take a breath? Really 
> man?
> Doug
>
> On Tuesday, August 15, 2023 at 1:57:37 PM UTC-4 John Phillips wrote:
>
>> Leah, please take a breath and count to 10.
>>
>> John's question wasn't rude, and was a fair question in that the *strength 
>> of his desire *for a bike at college *could* correlate to the amount of 
>> attention he would give to keeping the bike secure.
>>
>> You did ask for people's opinions, so please just ignore those you don't 
>> like.
>>
>> John 
>> On Tuesday, August 15, 2023 at 2:22:12 AM UTC-7 Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> John,
>>> Text makes it hard to tell sometimes, so I suppose I’ll ask.
>>>
>>> 1. Is your question asked because you have the perfect bike waiting for 
>>> him that you would like to gift him?
>>>
>>> 2. Is your question being asked because you are genuinely confused about 
>>> the topic of the conversation?
>>>
>>> 3. Or is your question posed so as to look down on me, as if I was 
>>> imposing my choices on my son?
>>>
>>> If #1, no thank you, we have 2 good Clems to choose from.
>>>
>>> If #2, I would direct you to the beginning of the thread. Freshman don’t 
>>> have cars at the campus we’re looking at, and one needs alternate 
>>> transportation.
>>>
>>> If #3, I’ll not dignify your question with any answer. 
>>>
>>> Leah
>>>
>>> On Aug 14, 2023, at 9:52 PM, 'John Hawrylak, Woodstown NJ' via RBW 
>>> Owners Bunch  wrote:
>>>
>>> Leah
>>>
>>>
>>> I might I missed it, but does your son want a bike at college
>>>
>>> John Hawrylak
>>> Woodstown NJ
>>>
>>> On Sunday, August 13, 2023 at 11:09:58 PM UTC-4 Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 
 
 Wow, since the boys were in elementary school, Ryan, that’s a long 
 time! But yes, I started out in late 2012 with a Betty and was pulling the 
 younger one on his “one-wheeler.” 

>>> -- 
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>>>  
>>> 
>>> .
>>>
>>>

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Re: [RBW] Re: rack for Wald 139 re: zip-ties & baskets

['John Phillips' via RBW Owners Bunch]

Eric, were the straps degrading, or were just broken, or cut, or?

John


On Tuesday, August 15, 2023 at 9:47:04 AM UTC-7 ericf3 wrote:

> Here's an oddity. I bought a couple of Voile straps for future use, around 
> 2019. I stored them atop the donut spare in our Forester. Last month, I 
> accessed the space and both straps were broken. Not a clean cut, but close 
> to it. I wouldn't suppose that it means anything for other users,  but that 
> is my report...
>
> So I tossed some other type of steap in there. I hope it holds up 
>
> EricF
> Golden Lake ON 
>
> On Tue, Aug 15, 2023, 12:27 'John Phillips' via RBW Owners Bunch <
> rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com> wrote:
>
>>+1 for Voile straps for attaching baskets to racks. 
>> I haven't broken any wires on my baskets, but my zip-ties seem to break 
>> on their own. I used to find broken zip-ties sometimes when I did a quick 
>> bike & rack check before heading out. The zip-ties never broke while I was 
>> riding, but would expire in their sleep between rides. Switching zip-tie 
>> brands didn't help, and always parked my bike inside. 
>> I switched to Voile straps without any problems, and now it's quick to 
>> add or remove a basket in seconds any time I want.
>>
>> John
>>
>> On Tuesday, April 11, 2023 at 5:29:38 PM UTC-7 J Schwartz wrote:
>>
>>> Greetings
>>> I'm interested in racking my Wald 139 big basket and am curious what ppl 
>>> are using for a rack.
>>> I just got an email that the basket rack is back in stock at RBW, and 
>>> I'm considering just buying it but I'm really just not onboard with 
>>> spending $288 on a front rack despite how well it's made and special it 
>>> is..  I may pull the trigger on it anyway but wanted to check here to see 
>>> what users of the 139 are doing to attach it to the fronts of their bikes.
>>> I already have an old Nitto R14 "Top Rack" that I know some people have 
>>> used in the front and zipped a 139 on top.  Mine is older and doesn't have 
>>> any diving board provisions so it's only 4 struts but I assume it's strong 
>>> enough if installed well.   My intention was to use that rack on the rear 
>>> of the bike though.
>>> Any suggestions for a support for the 139 that isn't $288?
>>> thanks
>>> JS
>>>
>>> -- 
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>>  
>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/0b2279db-bafb-48ab-bb84-d3b7246a85d8n%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email_source=footer>
>> .
>>
>

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Re: [RBW] A College Clem

['John Phillips' via RBW Owners Bunch]

Leah, please take a breath and count to 10.

John's question wasn't rude, and was a fair question in that the *strength 
of his desire *for a bike at college *could* correlate to the amount of 
attention he would give to keeping the bike secure.

You did ask for people's opinions, so please just ignore those you don't 
like.

John 
On Tuesday, August 15, 2023 at 2:22:12 AM UTC-7 Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! 
wrote:

> John,
> Text makes it hard to tell sometimes, so I suppose I’ll ask.
>
> 1. Is your question asked because you have the perfect bike waiting for 
> him that you would like to gift him?
>
> 2. Is your question being asked because you are genuinely confused about 
> the topic of the conversation?
>
> 3. Or is your question posed so as to look down on me, as if I was 
> imposing my choices on my son?
>
> If #1, no thank you, we have 2 good Clems to choose from.
>
> If #2, I would direct you to the beginning of the thread. Freshman don’t 
> have cars at the campus we’re looking at, and one needs alternate 
> transportation.
>
> If #3, I’ll not dignify your question with any answer. 
>
> Leah
>
> On Aug 14, 2023, at 9:52 PM, 'John Hawrylak, Woodstown NJ' via RBW Owners 
> Bunch  wrote:
>
> Leah
>
>
> I might I missed it, but does your son want a bike at college
>
> John Hawrylak
> Woodstown NJ
>
> On Sunday, August 13, 2023 at 11:09:58 PM UTC-4 Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! 
> wrote:
>
>> 
>> 
>> Wow, since the boys were in elementary school, Ryan, that’s a long time! 
>> But yes, I started out in late 2012 with a Betty and was pulling the 
>> younger one on his “one-wheeler.” 
>>
> -- 
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> Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
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> .
> To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email to 
> rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com.
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>  
> 
> .
>
>

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[RBW] Re: rack for Wald 139 re: zip-ties & baskets

['John Phillips' via RBW Owners Bunch]

   +1 for Voile straps for attaching baskets to racks. 
I haven't broken any wires on my baskets, but my zip-ties seem to break on 
their own. I used to find broken zip-ties sometimes when I did a quick bike 
& rack check before heading out. The zip-ties never broke while I was 
riding, but would expire in their sleep between rides. Switching zip-tie 
brands didn't help, and always parked my bike inside. 
I switched to Voile straps without any problems, and now it's quick to add 
or remove a basket in seconds any time I want.

John

On Tuesday, April 11, 2023 at 5:29:38 PM UTC-7 J Schwartz wrote:

> Greetings
> I'm interested in racking my Wald 139 big basket and am curious what ppl 
> are using for a rack.
> I just got an email that the basket rack is back in stock at RBW, and I'm 
> considering just buying it but I'm really just not onboard with spending 
> $288 on a front rack despite how well it's made and special it is..  I may 
> pull the trigger on it anyway but wanted to check here to see what users of 
> the 139 are doing to attach it to the fronts of their bikes.
> I already have an old Nitto R14 "Top Rack" that I know some people have 
> used in the front and zipped a 139 on top.  Mine is older and doesn't have 
> any diving board provisions so it's only 4 struts but I assume it's strong 
> enough if installed well.   My intention was to use that rack on the rear 
> of the bike though.
> Any suggestions for a support for the 139 that isn't $288?
> thanks
> JS
>
>

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[RBW] Re: rack for Wald 139

['John Phillips' via RBW Owners Bunch]

+1 for Pass and Stow racks.

Old Man Mountain is now offering a wider platform Pizza Rack, but haven't 
tried it.

I would also recommend using the widest bars you're comfortable with for 
riding with big front loads, but YMMV.

Confession: I do not like big front loads.

John

On Tuesday, April 11, 2023 at 5:29:38 PM UTC-7 J Schwartz wrote:

> Greetings
> I'm interested in racking my Wald 139 big basket and am curious what ppl 
> are using for a rack.
> I just got an email that the basket rack is back in stock at RBW, and I'm 
> considering just buying it but I'm really just not onboard with spending 
> $288 on a front rack despite how well it's made and special it is..  I may 
> pull the trigger on it anyway but wanted to check here to see what users of 
> the 139 are doing to attach it to the fronts of their bikes.
> I already have an old Nitto R14 "Top Rack" that I know some people have 
> used in the front and zipped a 139 on top.  Mine is older and doesn't have 
> any diving board provisions so it's only 4 struts but I assume it's strong 
> enough if installed well.   My intention was to use that rack on the rear 
> of the bike though.
> Any suggestions for a support for the 139 that isn't $288?
> thanks
> JS
>
>

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[RBW] Re: Tumbleweed Persuader Bars, what stem length did you settle on?

['John Phillips' via RBW Owners Bunch]

My chromoly Persuader bars arrived last night, and something seemed off. 
Measured the rise from center of bar clamp section to center of grip 
section and the rise measured about 25mm, half the 50mm listed online. This 
is cool as it gives me a more options with Nitto stem adapters & stem 
length, and more leeway dialing in the bar height. Just holding the bars 
felt good. My wrists loved the 30 degree sweep and 800mm width of the bars. 
Fingers crossed I love it just as much on my Hunq.

John

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[RBW] Re: Tumbleweed Persuader Bars, what stem length did you settle on?

['John Phillips' via RBW Owners Bunch]

   I had been comparing bars on whatbars.com, and stem length on the stem 
comparison tool, http://yojimg.net/bike/web_tools/stem.php. I just thought 
some feedback from Rivendell riders would be a good idea, given that 
Rivendell geometries and Rivendell riders are different and kinda unique.

   I think I'll try out a 90mm stem first and go from there. 90mm should 
put my grip a bit ahead of the steerer tube column.

John

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[RBW] Tumbleweed Persuader Bars, what stem length did you settle on?

['John Phillips' via RBW Owners Bunch]

  My Jones bars turned out to have more backward sweep than my wrists felt 
comfortable with, so I ordered some Persuader bars to try out on my 
Hunqapillar.

   I know everyone one's anatomies & riding styles are different, but was 
curious what stem lengths Persuader bar users tried out and / or settled on?

Thanx,
John Phillips

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[RBW] Re: The do-it-all Rivendell of choice

['John Phillips' via RBW Owners Bunch]

My 2013 700c 54cm Waterford Hunqapillar. Stripped down or loaded up, skinny 
tires or fat, swept-back Albratross bars or flat bars, it's perfect for me.

Sad Riv decided to stop making them and if mine were wrecked or stolen, I'd 
ask about ordering a custom copy.

John

On Wednesday, November 16, 2022 at 1:35:25 PM UTC-8 Patrick Moore wrote:

> The threads on Platypus versus [name] and using versus "saving" your 
> Rivendell raises an interesting if (fortunately!) academic question: if you 
> could have only 1 Rivendell as your only bicycle, and that Rivendell had to 
> serve all purposes -- fast pavement, commuting, errand loads, at least 
> light dirt and gravel: what model would you choose and how would you build 
> and equip it?
>
> I'm fortunate to have a bike for each of my purposes, except a 
> theft-be-damned but fun to ride grocery beater, which I hope to add to the 
> collection*, but if I had to choose just 1 and that a Riv, it would be my 
> gofast with a second set of wheels shod with 42 mm Naches Passes (which fit 
> with room to spare under the front normal reach single pivot) but not bolt 
> anything else to the Riv. Lights: I have an excellent B Ixon IQ Premium 
> which puts out at least as much brightness and has a nicer beam pattern 
> than my Edeluxe I, and Cateye clamps are cheap and easy to find. There are 
> all sorts of bright, strap-on blinkies for the rear. I'd rig up a QR for my 
> Saddlesack Medium and attach it with the Nitto standoff only as needed, and 
> augment it with a courier bag in 1 of 3 sizes. I'd get some clip-on, easy 
> on/off fenders, shorties if need be -- hell, this is New Mexico. 
>
> Wheels: Actually, I might do as I did decades ago when I tried to make a 
> mountain bike do triple duty with 3 wheelsets: gofast with 23 mm tires and 
> 12-19 (7-sp) cassette, commuting with 35 mm tires with 13-21, and off road 
> with knobbies and 14-28. The Phil fixed/fixed with Elk Pass would keep the 
> 17/19 Dingle and the 28 mm Elk Passes, but I'd have another Elk Pass rear 
> for the TC fixed hub with 17 t cog for 76" direct and 66" underdrive; and 
> then I'd have a third wheeset for Naches Passes with the fixed TF hub with 
> a 19 t cog and the Naches Passes for 70" and 52"; good pavement-to-moderate 
> dirt ratios.
>
> Of course, I'd have to overcome the scruple of keeping this bike pristine 
>  Funny, I usually take a brief detour for a mile or  mile-and-a-half 
> along a very busy 6-lane when I ride North from my house because the direct 
> route is dusty, sandy crusher fine. Would have to strenuously overcome that 
> vice.
>
> * Actually, one reason for this 5th beater bike would be just the fun of 
> building up a bike that rides nice and meets my gearing and handling 
> preferences at the lowest possible price.
>
> -- 
>
> ---
> Patrick Moore
> Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum
>
>

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[RBW] Re: Kickstand plates, what's up with that?

['John Phillips' via RBW Owners Bunch]

I remember these discussions from 7 years ago. I took my kickstand off and 
bought a Click Stand just to be safe before I damaged the plate on my Hunq. 
Riv said plates on Waterford Riv's were thinner than the Taiwanese Riv's.

I thought I remembered someone thinking riding on rough roads had been 
enough for the weight of their single leg kickstand to twist and damage the 
plate on their bike but I haven't found the thread yet.

Leah, your kickstand snapping in the back of your card is a completely 
different flavor of "yikes?!?!"

John

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[RBW] Question for Doom Bar Owners?

['John Phillips' via RBW Owners Bunch]

   I'm contemplating placing an order with Doom Bars for a set of swept 
back handlebars, but I see I will need a shim to fit any stem I want to 
use. I have never used a shim in a handlebar clamp, so...

   Do you Doom Bar owners use stems with 2 or 4 bolt bar clamps, or are you 
happy using a  stem with 1 bolt bar clamp like the Nitto Technomic Deluxe 
or the Nitto Lugged stem?

Thanks in advance for any input, feedback, advice or pure unadulterated 
gossip you can share,

John Phillips

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[RBW] Re: Nitto Basket Rack: is it too heavy?

['John Phillips' via RBW Owners Bunch]

+1 About what Garth said: if it feels heavy, it's heavy.

+1 What Leah said about not feeling the joy over lifting a heavy bike up 
stairs, onto racks, etc. 
I have been reducing the rack & accessory weight on my Hunqapillar & 
Hilsen. Or maybe it's just having a sore arm from all the vaccines I've 
gotten over the last two years??? I can count at least 10 shots off the top 
of my head! Doc said I needed a bunch of middle-age boosters, plus flu, 
plus my COVID shots.

Did I understand this rack alone weighs 4 lbs? That seems like a lot. My 
largest front rack is a Pass & Stow 5 rail and it's not that heavy.

John



On Friday, October 7, 2022 at 2:00:17 PM UTC-7 Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! 
wrote:

> Hi friends, 
>
> Can we just talk about the Nitto Basket Rack for one sec? 
>
> I was so excited when this was made and I got one soon after. I have it on 
> my Overkill Shopping Platypus, and I like the way it looks and its utility 
> but it is SO HEAVY. Noticeably heavy. Like, when I lift the unloaded bike 
> onto my van bike rack I struggle - and I’m no wimp. This Platy outweighs my 
> rear-racked and Backabike’d Clem, and I think the Basket Rack is mostly to 
> blame. 
>
> I’m toying with the idea of removing it, but then I’d have to get a new 
> setup for my dyno headlight, so I hesitate. 
>
> I don’t think I’ve heard anyone else complain about the weight of the 
> Basket Rack; I feel like I’m the only one, which makes me suspect I’m 
> wrong. Before I do anything drastic, I just wanted to see if this has been 
> anyone else’s experience. Is the Basket Rack a beast? Has anyone else tried 
> it and disliked it? 
>
> I know there’s a whole discussion out there about carrying weight on the 
> front. I guess I’ve never had a real issue with it, aside from not liking 
> that the bars swing around when parked. I’m not really talking about THAT; 
> I’m wondering if anyone else finds this Nitto rack unnecessarily heavy. Not 
> that I’m going for lightweight, here. I mean, look at these pics.
>
> Leah
>
>

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[RBW] Re: Are Paul brakes worth the money?

['John Phillips' via RBW Owners Bunch]

I have used Paul Racers, Touring & Neo-Retro Cantilevers and Moto-lites. I 
like them all. I found them to be easy to set up & easy to adjust, and 
that's without much experience at all, just watched some Youtube videos and 
read the information & advice given & shared here by much more experienced 
and wizened mechanics.

I love the look of Paul components and have never regretted buying any of 
their brakes, brake levers, skewers or stems.

Just my $0.02,

John

On Sunday, September 25, 2022 at 10:52:35 AM UTC-7 Bill Fulford wrote:

> I was recently gifted $500 to Rivendell. My plan was to upgrade my 2007 
> Atlantis with Paul brakes and levers. I placed the order only to read later 
> that the brakes are sold per wheel. That’s  more than I wanted to spend. So 
> before I call Rivendell tomorrow morning to cancel I’m wondering how folks 
> feel about these brakes? I would be ordering the linear pull brake with 
> love levers. Are they worth it?

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[RBW] My Apologies: Re: Riv asks: One bike forever, which one?

['John Phillips' via RBW Owners Bunch]

My apologies, I didn't mean to suggest my first thoughts were bike choices 
for a violent apocalypse vs old age, as much as  a "No one's fixing the 
darn roads any longer!" apocalypse vs old age. 

It wasn't my intention to bring up bike choices for doomsday preppers or 
ask which bike Mel Gibson's Mad Max would choose to ride across the Aussie 
outback.

For riding in my 90's-plus 爛, I'm still going to go with the choice of 29+ 
steel mixte cruiser, and add bamboo handlebars plus maybe a sprung seat 
post.

John 



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[RBW] Re: Riv asks: One bike forever, which one?

['John Phillips' via RBW Owners Bunch]

It's funny, but that question didn't have me thinking one bike to last 
through old age, but one bike to deal with whatever apocalypses the future 
might bring. I definitely need to ride & chill out more.

For me it would be a steel frame mixte, that can fit 55mm tires, minimum 
50mm tires, but without the longer chain stays Riv now prefers.

I'm an urban dweller / rider and I need my bikes to fit in smaller rooms, 
easy to carry up & down stairwells, through narrower hallways, elevators, 
etc. If I lived in a house with a garage, chain stay length probably 
wouldn't be a problem. My MUSA Hunqapillar & MUSA AHH have smooth, stable 
rides, and while for me the longer chain stay lengths do make for a great, 
gliding ride, the longer chain stays are overkill, too long and a deal 
breaker.

And no, a Brompton is NOT a substitute for a Rivendell, although I guess it 
qualifies as a steel mixte?

John

On Saturday, April 2, 2022 at 6:22:50 AM UTC-7 Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! 
wrote:

> [image: 1154624B-CA95-4486-9D2B-97EF158D1790.jpeg][image: 
> 3F33C3A3-4976-4724-8514-59BFF118CA62.jpeg]
>
> If you follow Rivendell on Instagram, they asked their followers a fun 
> question yesterday: 
>
> You get one bike for the rest of your life - what frame material, and what 
> style - mixte or normal? 
>
> Attached is a screenshot of Grant’s quote and Betsy Streeter’s art. 
>
> What a question! The frame material and style is easy - I love a Rivendell 
> steel mixte, but only one? In the end, my #1 is my raspberry Platypus, but 
> I’d cry real tears if parted from my Clem L or my shopping Platypus. Up 
> until 2020 I was a one bike gal, but I am really savoring having a trio of 
> bikes set up for different enjoyments. I chose the raspberry mixte as my 
> One Bike Forever because it’s the most beautiful, does whatever I want it 
> to, and has heaps of sentimental value. 
>
> What would be your One Bike Forever? Do you have that bike or is it a 
> dream bike? Do you have a photo?
> Leah
>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Brooks B67 on a Clem or other upright bike

['John Phillips' via RBW Owners Bunch]

You might also need a seat post with more setback, like Nitto S83 or S84. I 
like the lugged Nitto S84, but everyone's different.

John

On Monday, March 21, 2022 at 12:35:08 PM UTC-7 rmro...@gmail.com wrote:

> Very good to hear. I can deal with that.:)
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Mar 21, 2022, at 2:08 PM, 'John Phillips' via RBW Owners Bunch <
> rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com> wrote:
>
> 
>
> If you were sliding off the front of the B67, next time angle the nose up 
> till the back is about level. Test ride and adjust until you no longer 
> slide forward or back. The nose might look like it's pointing up in a 
> dangerous direction, but I've never seen a well used B67 on a bike where 
> the nose wasn't pointed upward. It's not how your saddle looks when you're 
> not riding, it's how your saddle feels when you are.
>
> It's more than just your riding position, the width of your sit bones 
> matters too as to whether the B67 will be comfortable. If you have wider 
> sit bones like me, a wider saddle like the B67 or the Berthoud Aubisque or 
> Berthoud Vars is a must.
>
> John
>
> On Sunday, March 20, 2022 at 9:19:32 AM UTC-7 rmro...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> This may or may not be a question aimed specifically at Clem owners. 
>> Rivendell suggest the B67 for very upright positions. But, most Riv bikes 
>> (Clem or other) I see have either B17, Flyer or other brand leather saddles 
>> (Rivet, RH, SAA...). Even when I take a look at the Riv "staff bikes" I 
>> rarely see a B67, though most of the bikes look pretty upright.
>> FWIW, I tried a secondhand B67 on my Jones bike when I was struggling to 
>> get comfortable on it after converting it from my mountain bike to my 
>> everything else bike. In that effort I swapped the Jones loop bar for a 
>> more swept back bar (Soma Oxford) and jacked the bars up using a VO Cigne 
>> stem. I was pretty comfortable but just could not get the B67 in a place 
>> where I was not sliding forward so I (foolishly?) sold it. But the 
>> experiment led me to my interest in and eventual purchase of my Clem (Lucky 
>> day!). To date I have only ridden the Clem with my trusty SQ Labs saddle 
>> and it has been great for most of the nearly 600 miles I have put on the 
>> bike. Most of those rides have been between 1 - 2.5 hours in length. The 
>> other day I went almost three hours and my sit bones were getting 
>> uncomfortable. My thinking is that the SQ is just too narrow for the very 
>> upright position. The B67 seems the natural choice. Thus my question - why 
>> do I not see more B67's on Riv bikes and on Clem's in particular?
>>
> -- 
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> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/2c1f99c5-a1e7-4ccf-8f0e-a010b8cd154dn%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email_source=footer>
> .
>
>

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[RBW] Re: Brooks B67 on a Clem or other upright bike

['John Phillips' via RBW Owners Bunch]

If you were sliding off the front of the B67, next time angle the nose up 
till the back is about level. Test ride and adjust until you no longer 
slide forward or back. The nose might look like it's pointing up in a 
dangerous direction, but I've never seen a well used B67 on a bike where 
the nose wasn't pointed upward. It's not how your saddle looks when you're 
not riding, it's how your saddle feels when you are.

It's more than just your riding position, the width of your sit bones 
matters too as to whether the B67 will be comfortable. If you have wider 
sit bones like me, a wider saddle like the B67 or the Berthoud Aubisque or 
Berthoud Vars is a must.

John

On Sunday, March 20, 2022 at 9:19:32 AM UTC-7 rmro...@gmail.com wrote:

> This may or may not be a question aimed specifically at Clem owners. 
> Rivendell suggest the B67 for very upright positions. But, most Riv bikes 
> (Clem or other) I see have either B17, Flyer or other brand leather saddles 
> (Rivet, RH, SAA...). Even when I take a look at the Riv "staff bikes" I 
> rarely see a B67, though most of the bikes look pretty upright.
> FWIW, I tried a secondhand B67 on my Jones bike when I was struggling to 
> get comfortable on it after converting it from my mountain bike to my 
> everything else bike. In that effort I swapped the Jones loop bar for a 
> more swept back bar (Soma Oxford) and jacked the bars up using a VO Cigne 
> stem. I was pretty comfortable but just could not get the B67 in a place 
> where I was not sliding forward so I (foolishly?) sold it. But the 
> experiment led me to my interest in and eventual purchase of my Clem (Lucky 
> day!). To date I have only ridden the Clem with my trusty SQ Labs saddle 
> and it has been great for most of the nearly 600 miles I have put on the 
> bike. Most of those rides have been between 1 - 2.5 hours in length. The 
> other day I went almost three hours and my sit bones were getting 
> uncomfortable. My thinking is that the SQ is just too narrow for the very 
> upright position. The B67 seems the natural choice. Thus my question - why 
> do I not see more B67's on Riv bikes and on Clem's in particular?
>

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[RBW] Re: New-to-me Hunqapillar

['John Phillips' via RBW Owners Bunch]

What length stems are you all using with your Jones bars & Hunqapillars?

John

On Tuesday, February 15, 2022 at 3:53:34 PM UTC-8 Chris L wrote:

> Congrats on the new bike!  Hunqapillars are a rare model.
>
> I love the Jones bar on my Hunqapillar.  
>
> I've never been able to get comfortable on drops, but I've found a similar 
> position on the Jones bar, where the red circle is drawn.  I rest my heel 
> on the juncture so that my thumbs hook just inside the loop.  It puts me in 
> a nice (relatively speaking, for me) aerodynamic position in which I can 
> just cruise.  
>
> Placing my hands an inch or so behind the controls is very similar to a 
> typical mountain bike handlebar.
>
> At the very back of the grips is used periodically when I want to sit up 
> and look around, or more often, to recover a little.  
>
> I have the 2.5" rise version with 710mm width.  
>
> [image: 20190324_075108 (2).jpg]
> On Tuesday, February 15, 2022 at 11:38:34 AM UTC-6 mcgr...@gmail.com 
> wrote:
>
>> Hi, all.  Long time lurker, only recent poster.  I posted a photo in the 
>> thread about Ron's Ortho Bars, but thought I should share more generally.  
>> After following Rivendell and buying parts here and there for 20 years or 
>> so, here's my Hunqapillar 62cm, bought from the wonderful folks at Mack's 
>> Bike and Goods, and now winding its way through the iterative, evolutionary 
>> process of getting it to what I want it to be.
>>
>> It's replacing the Surly Long Haul Trucker that I've had since 2005, but 
>> which wasn't cutting it anymore - couldn't get as relaxed a position as I 
>> wanted and couldn't fit as big a tire as I wanted.  I had been using that 
>> bike not for its loaded touring intention, but for mixed 
>> pavement/gravel/light trail rides, like the last few years of the Nutmeg 
>> Noreaster.  I restored a Motobecane Grand Record last year that I can use 
>> for my road bike, so the move to the Hunqapillar lets me have a 
>> do-everything bike that's a little less roadish. 
>>
>> The Hunqapillar came around at exactly the right time.  I've built it up 
>> with mostly parts from the bin.  A couple of things that I'm working 
>> through (and open to any suggestions on!):
>>
>> (1) The front derailleur.  I'm using a triple as a double with a bash 
>> guard replacing the outer ring, like I've done on other bikes.  I'm using 
>> an old Deore XT crank, but on a 113mm bottom bracket spindle that's way too 
>> short for it.  I have a 118 handy that I could easily swap in, but the 
>> chainline for the "middle" ring seems too perfect to want to move it out.  
>> It accommodates the 24/36t rings I want to use just fine.  EXCEPT - a 
>> vintage derailleur has to be a mile high on the seat tube to not be hitting 
>> the chainstay, and a modern mountain derailleur solves that issue, but 
>> won't come in close enough to the seat tube to shift to the small ring.  
>> SIGH.  I spent a bunch of time filing down a direct mount adapter, but 
>> still can't get close enough.  I may keep going that route, or might do the 
>> inverse of the derailleur mod laid out here for quad chainring use and 
>> shorten a derailleur cage - 
>> http://abundantadventures.com/mtfaq/frontderail/fr.derail.mods.html
>>
>> (2) Handlebars.  I jumped on the Ron's Ortho bar sale and was lucky 
>> enough to get one.  The problem is that it sweeps back a little too far for 
>> me, even with a 120mm stem.  I thought about looking for a 130, but I think 
>> I need a bar with a better forward position.  The Ortho bar has a little 
>> too much rise for the forward position to work for me, or for me to mount 
>> it upside down.  It also can be a bit of a wheelie machine for me when 
>> going up a steep hill or steep bit of trail.  But now what? A friend has an 
>> Albatross I may borrow to test in the flipped position, or I may look at 
>> the Choco or Choco-Moose (which looks like it could be really cool, but 
>> hard to spend all that $$$ without knowing!).  The Billie bar could be 
>> promising, but seems to be sold out everywhere.  I used an Albastache on my 
>> Surly for a while and like the variation in positions, but my wrists don't 
>> like the default brake set up.  I did run it with inverse levers for a bit, 
>> but I now really want to stick with a trigger shifter.
>>
>> tl;dr - here are some photos I took of 
>> the-bike-that-I'm-very-happy-with-but-still-tweaking here in the lovely 
>> South Mountain Reservation on a warm lunchtime ride last week
>>
>> [image: Screenshot 2022-02-10 161030.png]
>>
>> [image: Screenshot 2022-02-14 162511.png]
>>
>> James
>> South Orange, NJ
>>
>

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Re: [RBW] Has anyone tried out their Uncle Ron's Orthopedic Bars?

['John Phillips' via RBW Owners Bunch]

Ok, this is really, really embarrassing, but I rechecked my Ortho bars 
before packing them up for return, and they are not, definitely NOT as 
FUBAR'ed as I had described earlier.

  I'm really doubting my sanity here. I remeasured where the bar clamp 
section was, checked it over with calipers, and the 26mm bar clamp section 
is right where the stem needs it to be. The roughened section is a bit off, 
but still where the stem needs it to be. What in the world made me see 
otherwise? This is scary, I hope this isn't a sign of early dementia. I 
have to email Crust and apologize.

Comparing the Ortho bars to my Albatross bars does show off the Ortho bars' 
flaws more than you notice just looking at the Ortho Bars alone. The right 
side grips are about 5mm higher than the left, and the clamp section's 
flaws look worse when held up next to Nitto's, but they are perfectly 
usable bars.

I'm going to keep these and try these out with as a long a stem as I can 
find, and hopefully get them to work.

I apologize to everyone for my what I wrote earlier.

John

On Thursday, February 17, 2022 at 10:46:12 AM UTC-8 eric...@gmail.com wrote:

> John – Sorry your bars are wack! Yeah, must be a bummer for Crust with a 
> ton of people saying "When ya gonna get me some more of these bars!" and 
> other people saying "I got these bars but they're FUBARs!"
>
> On Thursday, February 17, 2022 at 1:13:26 PM UTC-5 John Phillips wrote:
>
>> Eric,  The bar clamp section of my Ortho bars is much more off center 
>> than yours, and I think if I sold them to someone sight unseen, they would 
>> be justifiably PO'd. If I tried to clamp my Ortho bar in a stem, I would be 
>> tightening the stem down on the section transitioning from the 25.4mm clamp 
>> section to the 22.2 bar.
>>
>> Crust emailed me within minutes telling me to send the bars back. This 
>> must be a complete bummer for them, and I only hope they recover 
>> compensation from the manufacturer.
>>
>> I think if the shape of these bars was based on the Albatross rather than 
>> the Bosco, they would fit more bikes, and give people more choices in stem 
>> length to fit their bodies and riding positions. I think the Ortho's don't 
>> need shorter grip sections, they just need some reach, maybe 3-5cm?
>>
>> YMMV,
>>
>> John
>>
>> On Thursday, February 17, 2022 at 6:25:40 AM UTC-8 eric...@gmail.com 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> @John & Sam: I'm sure you could easily unload those bars, even with the 
>>> asymmetry! 
>>>
>>> Now, regarding the asymmetry. I spent a bit of time looking closely at 
>>> my bars last night. When I align the Ortho Bars with a loose set of 
>>> Albatross bars with both sets facing the same way, nestled together, they 
>>> very clearly don't line up. I assume that the Nitto bars are perfectly 
>>> symmetrical given Nitto's reputation for precision. In the photo I placed 
>>> the rule centered beneath the Albatross bars. 
>>>
>>> However, when I flip the bars around into an interlocking orientation 
>>> the clamps do appear centered. There must be some inconsistency with the 
>>> rise or bends of the Ortho bars that prevents them from nestling on center 
>>> with the Albatross bars when they're both oriented the same direction. When 
>>> measuring I could not determine where the inconsistency is. 
>>>
>>> I measured my Ortho bars from outside to outside, found the center line 
>>> and measured to the left and right from there. There is a slight 
>>> inconsistency in the textured clamp area but it's about 1.2mm. Same for the 
>>> taper of the bar, which I measured with calipers. There's some 
>>> inconsistency but for handlebars it's trivial.
>>>
>>> [image: IMG_8497.JPG][image: IMG_8498.JPG][image: IMG_8500.JPG]
>>>
>>>  [image: IMG_8492.JPG][image: IMG_8493.JPG]
>>> [image: IMG_8494.JPG][image: IMG_8496.JPG]
>>> On Wednesday, February 16, 2022 at 2:55:43 PM UTC-5 John Phillips wrote:
>>>
>>>> I should have said I have the extinct 56cm Albatross bars which are 
>>>> also a different shape, wider up near bend.
>>>>
>>>> John
>>>>
>>>> On Tuesday, February 15, 2022 at 11:30:00 PM UTC-8 
>>>> brianmark...@gmail.com wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> That’s odd. I didn’t notice anything off with mine, but now I’m 
>>>>> curious and will have to check. I think I disagree on them being not much 
>>>>> wider than Albas though.
>>>>>
>>>>> On Tue, Feb 15, 2022 at 13:13 'John Phillips' via RB

Re: [RBW] Has anyone tried out their Uncle Ron's Orthopedic Bars?

['John Phillips' via RBW Owners Bunch]

Eric,  The bar clamp section of my Ortho bars is much more off center than 
yours, and I think if I sold them to someone sight unseen, they would be 
justifiably PO'd. If I tried to clamp my Ortho bar in a stem, I would be 
tightening the stem down on the section transitioning from the 25.4mm clamp 
section to the 22.2 bar.

Crust emailed me within minutes telling me to send the bars back. This must 
be a complete bummer for them, and I only hope they recover compensation 
from the manufacturer.

I think if the shape of these bars was based on the Albatross rather than 
the Bosco, they would fit more bikes, and give people more choices in stem 
length to fit their bodies and riding positions. I think the Ortho's don't 
need shorter grip sections, they just need some reach, maybe 3-5cm?

YMMV,

John

On Thursday, February 17, 2022 at 6:25:40 AM UTC-8 eric...@gmail.com wrote:

> @John & Sam: I'm sure you could easily unload those bars, even with the 
> asymmetry! 
>
> Now, regarding the asymmetry. I spent a bit of time looking closely at my 
> bars last night. When I align the Ortho Bars with a loose set of Albatross 
> bars with both sets facing the same way, nestled together, they very 
> clearly don't line up. I assume that the Nitto bars are perfectly 
> symmetrical given Nitto's reputation for precision. In the photo I placed 
> the rule centered beneath the Albatross bars. 
>
> However, when I flip the bars around into an interlocking orientation the 
> clamps do appear centered. There must be some inconsistency with the rise 
> or bends of the Ortho bars that prevents them from nestling on center with 
> the Albatross bars when they're both oriented the same direction. When 
> measuring I could not determine where the inconsistency is. 
>
> I measured my Ortho bars from outside to outside, found the center line 
> and measured to the left and right from there. There is a slight 
> inconsistency in the textured clamp area but it's about 1.2mm. Same for the 
> taper of the bar, which I measured with calipers. There's some 
> inconsistency but for handlebars it's trivial.
>
> [image: IMG_8497.JPG][image: IMG_8498.JPG][image: IMG_8500.JPG]
>
>  [image: IMG_8492.JPG][image: IMG_8493.JPG]
> [image: IMG_8494.JPG][image: IMG_8496.JPG]
> On Wednesday, February 16, 2022 at 2:55:43 PM UTC-5 John Phillips wrote:
>
>> I should have said I have the extinct 56cm Albatross bars which are also 
>> a different shape, wider up near bend.
>>
>> John
>>
>> On Tuesday, February 15, 2022 at 11:30:00 PM UTC-8 brianmark...@gmail.com 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> That’s odd. I didn’t notice anything off with mine, but now I’m curious 
>>> and will have to check. I think I disagree on them being not much wider 
>>> than Albas though.
>>>
>>> On Tue, Feb 15, 2022 at 13:13 'John Phillips' via RBW Owners Bunch <
>>> rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>>I received my Ortho bars only to discover the bars are not 
>>>> symmetrical. Both the structural 25.4mm bar clamp section and the 
>>>> roughened 
>>>> grip section for the bar clamp are closer to the right hand side of the 
>>>> bars, and neither is lined up with each other.  I could live with the 
>>>> roughened section being a bit off, but the 25.4mm bar clamp section is way 
>>>> too far over to the right. I wrote Crust an email asking about a return. 
>>>> These bars are so wide you don't immediately notice something is off, but 
>>>> when I pulled out my 56mm Albatross bars to compare, I noticed the bar 
>>>> clamp sections wouldn't line up. I was trying to measure just how much 
>>>> stem 
>>>> extension I was going to need to move over from my Alba's to the Ortho 
>>>> bars, and saw something was really off.
>>>>
>>>>These bars are not actually a ton wider than my Alba's so I'll just 
>>>> stick with my albatross cockpit for now.
>>>>
>>>> John
>>>>
>>>> On Monday, February 14, 2022 at 7:40:56 AM UTC-8 mcgr...@gmail.com 
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> I'm going to throw up a WTT thread at some point, but the Ron's Ortho 
>>>>> bars have just a couple of inch or inch and a half too much backwards 
>>>>> reach 
>>>>> for my 62cm Hunqapillar (pictured here with a 120mm Technomic).  I think 
>>>>> I'd be better off with a Billie bar.  I'm in northern NJ, work in 
>>>>> Manhattan, if anyone would be interested in a trade...
>>>>>
>>>>> [image: Screenshot 2022-02-10 161030.png]
>>>>&

Re: [RBW] Has anyone tried out their Uncle Ron's Orthopedic Bars?

['John Phillips' via RBW Owners Bunch]

I should have said I have the extinct 56cm Albatross bars which are also a 
different shape, wider up near bend.

John

On Tuesday, February 15, 2022 at 11:30:00 PM UTC-8 brianmark...@gmail.com 
wrote:

> That’s odd. I didn’t notice anything off with mine, but now I’m curious 
> and will have to check. I think I disagree on them being not much wider 
> than Albas though.
>
> On Tue, Feb 15, 2022 at 13:13 'John Phillips' via RBW Owners Bunch <
> rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com> wrote:
>
>>I received my Ortho bars only to discover the bars are not 
>> symmetrical. Both the structural 25.4mm bar clamp section and the roughened 
>> grip section for the bar clamp are closer to the right hand side of the 
>> bars, and neither is lined up with each other.  I could live with the 
>> roughened section being a bit off, but the 25.4mm bar clamp section is way 
>> too far over to the right. I wrote Crust an email asking about a return. 
>> These bars are so wide you don't immediately notice something is off, but 
>> when I pulled out my 56mm Albatross bars to compare, I noticed the bar 
>> clamp sections wouldn't line up. I was trying to measure just how much stem 
>> extension I was going to need to move over from my Alba's to the Ortho 
>> bars, and saw something was really off.
>>
>>These bars are not actually a ton wider than my Alba's so I'll just 
>> stick with my albatross cockpit for now.
>>
>> John
>>
>> On Monday, February 14, 2022 at 7:40:56 AM UTC-8 mcgr...@gmail.com wrote:
>>
>>> I'm going to throw up a WTT thread at some point, but the Ron's Ortho 
>>> bars have just a couple of inch or inch and a half too much backwards reach 
>>> for my 62cm Hunqapillar (pictured here with a 120mm Technomic).  I think 
>>> I'd be better off with a Billie bar.  I'm in northern NJ, work in 
>>> Manhattan, if anyone would be interested in a trade...
>>>
>>> [image: Screenshot 2022-02-10 161030.png]
>>>
>>> On Thursday, February 10, 2022 at 3:37:30 PM UTC-5 john...@gmail.com 
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Thanks John, maybe Ronny Romance just has a huge stack of 26mm clamp 
>>>> stems from the 1990s in his parts stash :-)
>>>>
>>>> I bought a used Clem H in April 2021 and built it with a set of steel 
>>>> Ergotec Beach cruiser bars because they were the only thing
>>>> I could find that looked even little a bit like the Ortho bars. I 
>>>> really love the range of positions, and the sweep is much more natural 
>>>> than 
>>>> flat mtb bars. Not so keen on the 880g weight though...
>>>>
>>>> Cheers,
>>>> John
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Thu, 10 Feb 2022 at 20:05, 'John Phillips' via RBW Owners Bunch <
>>>> rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Eric, 
>>>>>I tried out a 120mm Technomic Deluxe and a 120mm Pearl for initial 
>>>>> fit, and I liked the little bit of extra reach the Pearl gives me. A 
>>>>> Nitto 
>>>>> Pearl stem sunk all the way down in my Hunqapillar's short head tube 
>>>>> still 
>>>>> puts these bars about 8 cm's above my saddle.
>>>>>
>>>>> For some reason, Nitto measures the Pearl differently than the 
>>>>> Technomic Deluxe and the Pearl is about 8-9mm longer. Why? I don't know.
>>>>>
>>>>> So if I decide later I need to raise these bars a bit higher, I think 
>>>>> I'm going to need that one extra centimeter of the 130mm Technomic Deluxe.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Hi Johnny,  
>>>>>Most handlebars Crust sells are 26mm or 31.8mm, maybe that's why? 
>>>>> Could strength be a factor?  Fingers crossed Crust starts to stock some 
>>>>> 120-130mm stems for these bars. 
>>>>>
>>>>> I think the demand for these bars caught Crust & Uncle Ron completely 
>>>>> off guard.  Back in February 2021, when I emailed Uncle Ron with 
>>>>> questions 
>>>>> about a photo of what looked like giant, mutant Albatross bars on his 
>>>>> Atlantis(?), he answered, "congrats on being the only person 
>>>>> interested in my ortho back bars lol. it's a state of mind... "
>>>>>
>>>>> But then Crust put up those Uncle Ron's Orthopedic Back Bars 
>>>>> Sesion#1-#3 ride videos up on Youtube, and Uncle Ron posted Instagram 
>>>>> photo

Re: [RBW] Has anyone tried out their Uncle Ron's Orthopedic Bars?

['John Phillips' via RBW Owners Bunch]

   I received my Ortho bars only to discover the bars are not symmetrical. 
Both the structural 25.4mm bar clamp section and the roughened grip section 
for the bar clamp are closer to the right hand side of the bars, and 
neither is lined up with each other.  I could live with the roughened 
section being a bit off, but the 25.4mm bar clamp section is way too far 
over to the right. I wrote Crust an email asking about a return. These bars 
are so wide you don't immediately notice something is off, but when I 
pulled out my 56mm Albatross bars to compare, I noticed the bar clamp 
sections wouldn't line up. I was trying to measure just how much stem 
extension I was going to need to move over from my Alba's to the Ortho 
bars, and saw something was really off.

   These bars are not actually a ton wider than my Alba's so I'll just 
stick with my albatross cockpit for now.

John

On Monday, February 14, 2022 at 7:40:56 AM UTC-8 mcgr...@gmail.com wrote:

> I'm going to throw up a WTT thread at some point, but the Ron's Ortho bars 
> have just a couple of inch or inch and a half too much backwards reach for 
> my 62cm Hunqapillar (pictured here with a 120mm Technomic).  I think I'd be 
> better off with a Billie bar.  I'm in northern NJ, work in Manhattan, if 
> anyone would be interested in a trade...
>
> [image: Screenshot 2022-02-10 161030.png]
>
> On Thursday, February 10, 2022 at 3:37:30 PM UTC-5 john...@gmail.com 
> wrote:
>
>> Thanks John, maybe Ronny Romance just has a huge stack of 26mm clamp 
>> stems from the 1990s in his parts stash :-)
>>
>> I bought a used Clem H in April 2021 and built it with a set of steel 
>> Ergotec Beach cruiser bars because they were the only thing
>> I could find that looked even little a bit like the Ortho bars. I really 
>> love the range of positions, and the sweep is much more natural than flat 
>> mtb bars. Not so keen on the 880g weight though...
>>
>> Cheers,
>> John
>>
>>
>> On Thu, 10 Feb 2022 at 20:05, 'John Phillips' via RBW Owners Bunch <
>> rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Eric, 
>>>I tried out a 120mm Technomic Deluxe and a 120mm Pearl for initial 
>>> fit, and I liked the little bit of extra reach the Pearl gives me. A Nitto 
>>> Pearl stem sunk all the way down in my Hunqapillar's short head tube still 
>>> puts these bars about 8 cm's above my saddle.
>>>
>>> For some reason, Nitto measures the Pearl differently than the Technomic 
>>> Deluxe and the Pearl is about 8-9mm longer. Why? I don't know.
>>>
>>> So if I decide later I need to raise these bars a bit higher, I think 
>>> I'm going to need that one extra centimeter of the 130mm Technomic Deluxe.
>>>
>>>
>>> Hi Johnny,  
>>>Most handlebars Crust sells are 26mm or 31.8mm, maybe that's why? 
>>> Could strength be a factor?  Fingers crossed Crust starts to stock some 
>>> 120-130mm stems for these bars. 
>>>
>>> I think the demand for these bars caught Crust & Uncle Ron completely 
>>> off guard.  Back in February 2021, when I emailed Uncle Ron with questions 
>>> about a photo of what looked like giant, mutant Albatross bars on his 
>>> Atlantis(?), he answered, "congrats on being the only person interested 
>>> in my ortho back bars lol. it's a state of mind... "
>>>
>>> But then Crust put up those Uncle Ron's Orthopedic Back Bars Sesion#1-#3 
>>> ride videos up on Youtube, and Uncle Ron posted Instagram photos, and they 
>>> created a monster.
>>>
>>> John
>>> On Wednesday, February 9, 2022 at 4:22:13 PM UTC-8 eric...@gmail.com 
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> @frahm30: I'm working on three builds plus a repair plus a drivetrain 
>>>> upgrade! Five bikes in varying stages of... disaster. Sorry to tempt you 
>>>> with my Ortho Fresh Bars (Still In Box for maximum health benefits). 
>>>>
>>>> John, Ben's Cycle has the 26.0 clamp diameter, 190mm quill Technomic 
>>>> deluxe in size up to 120mm. If you can abide that lost centimeter check 
>>>> 'em here 
>>>> <https://www.benscycle.com/nitto-ntc-dx-technomic-deluxe-long-quill-stem-stem_nitto_ntc-dxlong_870/p?skuId=673316>
>>>> . 
>>>>
>>>> On Wednesday, February 9, 2022 at 2:05:09 PM UTC-5 John Phillips wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> I've been trying to find a 130mm Technomic deluxe with a 190mm quill, 
>>>>> but it looks like I'll have to use a 120mm Nitto Pearl until I do. I 
>>>>> don't 
>>>>> need them too high, so

[RBW] Re: Heterodoxy — reconciling RBW with the mainstream

['John Phillips' via RBW Owners Bunch]

Jay,

Your existential bicycle crisis seems to suggest not so much do 
whatever floats your boat, but that you need to go out and float your boat 
more often in the boat of your choice!  ;-)

I found practical errand biking just added way too much drudgery & 
stress to my life. I'm not an adrenaline junkie and playing frogger on a 
bike just doesn't do it for me. Nor did I enjoy carrying a Hunqapillar & 
bags of groceries up two flights of stairs when the elevator was out of 
order. 

Just ride (ing for fun)

John

On Thursday, February 10, 2022 at 5:49:11 PM UTC-8 Jay Lonner wrote:

> My wife and I are spending a week in northern AZ, which included a day of 
> mountain biking in Sedona. We rented fancy dual-suspension, carbon fiber 
> wonderbikes which are about as anti-Riv as you can get — and it was a 
> fantastic experience! I’ve never ridden such a beast before, and was amazed 
> at the terrain it could handle in the hands of a newcomer to this style of 
> riding. It’s the most fun I’ve had on a bike in years.
>
> I had a Gus in my shopping cart when they were last on sale, but 
> ultimately didn’t go through with the purchase because I want to be free to 
> experiment with builds that depart from the Riv way of doing things, such 
> as IGHs and disc brakes. And now I’m doubly glad I held off, because I am 
> giving serious consideration to buying a fully modern mountain bike.
>
> In retrospect I think I gave too much credence to the idea of underbiking. 
> There’s no way I could have handled this sort of terrain on a Riv-style 
> bike — I would have been walking it the entire time. And while that may be 
> the lowest common gear, as a former commenter here liked to say, it 
> wouldn’t have been nearly as fun.
>
> So I guess this is part confession and part query — who else mixes and 
> matches their Rivendells with the sort of modern ironmongery that would 
> give Grant & Co. conniptions? 
>
> Jay Lonner
> Bellingham, WA (but temporarily in Sedona, AZ)
>

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Re: [RBW] Has anyone tried out their Uncle Ron's Orthopedic Bars?

['John Phillips' via RBW Owners Bunch]

Eric, 
   I tried out a 120mm Technomic Deluxe and a 120mm Pearl for initial fit, 
and I liked the little bit of extra reach the Pearl gives me. A Nitto Pearl 
stem sunk all the way down in my Hunqapillar's short head tube still puts 
these bars about 8 cm's above my saddle.

For some reason, Nitto measures the Pearl differently than the Technomic 
Deluxe and the Pearl is about 8-9mm longer. Why? I don't know.

So if I decide later I need to raise these bars a bit higher, I think I'm 
going to need that one extra centimeter of the 130mm Technomic Deluxe.


Hi Johnny,  
   Most handlebars Crust sells are 26mm or 31.8mm, maybe that's why? Could 
strength be a factor?  Fingers crossed Crust starts to stock some 120-130mm 
stems for these bars. 

I think the demand for these bars caught Crust & Uncle Ron completely off 
guard.  Back in February 2021, when I emailed Uncle Ron with questions 
about a photo of what looked like giant, mutant Albatross bars on his 
Atlantis(?), he answered, "congrats on being the only person interested in 
my ortho back bars lol. it's a state of mind... "

But then Crust put up those Uncle Ron's Orthopedic Back Bars Sesion#1-#3 
ride videos up on Youtube, and Uncle Ron posted Instagram photos, and they 
created a monster.

John
On Wednesday, February 9, 2022 at 4:22:13 PM UTC-8 eric...@gmail.com wrote:

> @frahm30: I'm working on three builds plus a repair plus a drivetrain 
> upgrade! Five bikes in varying stages of... disaster. Sorry to tempt you 
> with my Ortho Fresh Bars (Still In Box for maximum health benefits). 
>
> John, Ben's Cycle has the 26.0 clamp diameter, 190mm quill Technomic 
> deluxe in size up to 120mm. If you can abide that lost centimeter check 
> 'em here 
> <https://www.benscycle.com/nitto-ntc-dx-technomic-deluxe-long-quill-stem-stem_nitto_ntc-dxlong_870/p?skuId=673316>
> . 
>
> On Wednesday, February 9, 2022 at 2:05:09 PM UTC-5 John Phillips wrote:
>
>> I've been trying to find a 130mm Technomic deluxe with a 190mm quill, but 
>> it looks like I'll have to use a 120mm Nitto Pearl until I do. I don't need 
>> them too high, so fingers crossed.
>>
>> John
>>
>> On Wednesday, February 9, 2022 at 10:10:23 AM UTC-8 Bones wrote:
>>
>>> Sadly mine are in the shed too, and have not yet seen any use. I 
>>> attached them to my Clem H on a 12cm Tallux but I haven't finished putting 
>>> it together. A 26.0 faceplater quill would probably be ideal but I don't 
>>> know where to find one of those. I've got an extra dirt drop but I assumed 
>>> that would bring them too close to me. One of those threadless stem 
>>> adapters would probably work great but I'm not too keen on the aesthetics. 
>>> I'm not a huge dude and I don't anticipate I'll have any issues with the 
>>> Tallux. I'll be sure to report back once I get it rolling though.
>>>
>>> Bones
>>> On Tuesday, February 8, 2022 at 8:18:25 PM UTC-5 fra...@gmail.com wrote:
>>>
>>>> Still in the shed? Oh man. Sure you don’t want to just pass them along? 
>>>> Because I’m in! Haha
>>>>
>>>> On Tuesday, February 8, 2022 at 4:16:57 PM UTC-8 John Phillips wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> "Orthopedic back Bars...for performance applications" 
>>>>>
>>>>> That gave me a chuckle.
>>>>>
>>>>> John
>>>>>
>>>>> On Tuesday, February 8, 2022 at 2:14:35 PM UTC-8 eric...@gmail.com 
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> John – I haven't tried the bars but have a set in the shed. I seem to 
>>>>>> recall somewhere Ron recommended adding some friction compound to the 
>>>>>> stem. 
>>>>>> Oh, I found it. 
>>>>>>
>>>>>> [image: Screen Shot 2022-02-08 at 5.14.07 PM.png]
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Tuesday, February 8, 2022 at 4:29:32 PM UTC-5 Sam Perez wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I found that a single bolt dirt drip stem holds okay, I mounted it 
>>>>>>> on a 4 bolt stem it felt more secure, yet to be field tested. 
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Feb 8, 2022, at 12:32 PM, 'John Phillips' via RBW Owners Bunch <
>>>>>>> rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> And did you need any friction paste or Loctite in the bar clamp?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> John
>>>>>>>
>>>&g

Re: [RBW] Has anyone tried out their Uncle Ron's Orthopedic Bars?

['John Phillips' via RBW Owners Bunch]

I've been trying to find a 130mm Technomic deluxe with a 190mm quill, but 
it looks like I'll have to use a 120mm Nitto Pearl until I do. I don't need 
them too high, so fingers crossed.

John

On Wednesday, February 9, 2022 at 10:10:23 AM UTC-8 Bones wrote:

> Sadly mine are in the shed too, and have not yet seen any use. I attached 
> them to my Clem H on a 12cm Tallux but I haven't finished putting it 
> together. A 26.0 faceplater quill would probably be ideal but I don't know 
> where to find one of those. I've got an extra dirt drop but I assumed that 
> would bring them too close to me. One of those threadless stem adapters 
> would probably work great but I'm not too keen on the aesthetics. I'm not a 
> huge dude and I don't anticipate I'll have any issues with the Tallux. I'll 
> be sure to report back once I get it rolling though.
>
> Bones
> On Tuesday, February 8, 2022 at 8:18:25 PM UTC-5 fra...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> Still in the shed? Oh man. Sure you don’t want to just pass them along? 
>> Because I’m in! Haha
>>
>> On Tuesday, February 8, 2022 at 4:16:57 PM UTC-8 John Phillips wrote:
>>
>>> "Orthopedic back Bars...for performance applications" 
>>>
>>> That gave me a chuckle.
>>>
>>> John
>>>
>>> On Tuesday, February 8, 2022 at 2:14:35 PM UTC-8 eric...@gmail.com 
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> John – I haven't tried the bars but have a set in the shed. I seem to 
>>>> recall somewhere Ron recommended adding some friction compound to the 
>>>> stem. 
>>>> Oh, I found it. 
>>>>
>>>> [image: Screen Shot 2022-02-08 at 5.14.07 PM.png]
>>>>
>>>> On Tuesday, February 8, 2022 at 4:29:32 PM UTC-5 Sam Perez wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> I found that a single bolt dirt drip stem holds okay, I mounted it on 
>>>>> a 4 bolt stem it felt more secure, yet to be field tested. 
>>>>>
>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>>
>>>>> On Feb 8, 2022, at 12:32 PM, 'John Phillips' via RBW Owners Bunch <
>>>>> rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> 
>>>>>
>>>>> And did you need any friction paste or Loctite in the bar clamp?
>>>>>
>>>>> John
>>>>>
>>>>> -- 
>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google 
>>>>> Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send 
>>>>> an email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com.
>>>>> To view this discussion on the web visit 
>>>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/5e1e78f7-0869-49ea-b359-309bc00dafbfn%40googlegroups.com
>>>>>  
>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/5e1e78f7-0869-49ea-b359-309bc00dafbfn%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email_source=footer>
>>>>> .
>>>>>
>>>>>

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Re: [RBW] Has anyone tried out their Uncle Ron's Orthopedic Bars?

['John Phillips' via RBW Owners Bunch]

"Orthopedic back Bars...for performance applications" 

That gave me a chuckle.

John

On Tuesday, February 8, 2022 at 2:14:35 PM UTC-8 eric...@gmail.com wrote:

> John – I haven't tried the bars but have a set in the shed. I seem to 
> recall somewhere Ron recommended adding some friction compound to the stem. 
> Oh, I found it. 
>
> [image: Screen Shot 2022-02-08 at 5.14.07 PM.png]
>
> On Tuesday, February 8, 2022 at 4:29:32 PM UTC-5 Sam Perez wrote:
>
>> I found that a single bolt dirt drip stem holds okay, I mounted it on a 4 
>> bolt stem it felt more secure, yet to be field tested. 
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>> On Feb 8, 2022, at 12:32 PM, 'John Phillips' via RBW Owners Bunch <
>> rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com> wrote:
>>
>> 
>>
>> And did you need any friction paste or Loctite in the bar clamp?
>>
>> John
>>
>> -- 
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
>> "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
>> email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com.
>> To view this discussion on the web visit 
>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/5e1e78f7-0869-49ea-b359-309bc00dafbfn%40googlegroups.com
>>  
>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/5e1e78f7-0869-49ea-b359-309bc00dafbfn%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email_source=footer>
>> .
>>
>>

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[RBW] Has anyone tried out their Uncle Ron's Orthopedic Bars?

['John Phillips' via RBW Owners Bunch]

And did you need any friction paste or Loctite in the bar clamp?

John

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[RBW] Re: What saddles are women using on their Riv mixtes?

['John Phillips' via RBW Owners Bunch]

Rene Herse sells the Gilles Berthoud saddles in the U.S.

https://www.renehersecycles.com/product-category/components/saddles/

John

On Friday, February 4, 2022 at 9:16:59 AM UTC-8 Linda G wrote:

> Thanks for all the recommendations! Rivet does have a couple of models 
> that are shorter and, though generally more expensive than Brooks, are not 
> as expensive as the Gilles Berthoud Marie Blanque. As far as unsprung 
> models for more upright riding, Brooks doesn't have anything currently 
> available except B17S. I'm not sure the Berthoud is even available in the 
> U.S. except by order from France. I haven't run across anything non-leather 
> that would look good on the bike and be functional. One thing I learned 
> from this search is to measure my sit bone width which makes the likelihood 
> greater of having success from ordering a saddle I can't try in advance. 
> Rivet does have a good return policy though.
> Linda
>
> On Thursday, February 3, 2022 at 6:07:08 PM UTC-8 Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! 
> wrote:
>
>> [image: FECE4CC1-CCA6-48D0-A2BA-33437A674267.jpeg]I have a white leather 
>> Rivet on my raspberry Platypus! It is shorter, but also that means it 
>> cheats you of some setback on your seatpost. I love it for comfort though. 
>> Rivet Sonora.
>>
>> Leah
>>
>>
>> On Thursday, February 3, 2022 at 5:38:32 PM UTC-5 Roberta wrote:
>>
>>> I think Rivet has some shorter nosed saddles, too.  Good reputation.  
>>> I've never ridden one, though.
>>>
>>> On Thursday, February 3, 2022 at 10:33:00 AM UTC-5 Linda G wrote:
>>>
 Thanks for all the good ideas. That Berthoud Marie Blanque looks good: 
 leather with the shorter length I like. 

 On Thursday, February 3, 2022 at 6:03:36 AM UTC-8 sof...@gmail.com 
 wrote:

> On my platypus (soon to be on my Clem), I've tried the B17 regular, 
> B17 special, B67s, and have settled on the speedy but comfier to me 
> Gilles 
> Berthoud Marie Blanque. 
>
> On Wednesday, February 2, 2022 at 11:38:16 PM UTC-5 Nick Payne wrote:
>
>> After having tried quite a number of different saddles over the 
>> years, my wife has the Selle Italia Lady Gel flow saddle (in the 160mm 
>> wide 
>> L size) on all her bikes: 
>> https://www.selleitalia.com/en/saddles/lady-gel-flow-s/.
>>
>> Nick
>>
>

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[RBW] Re: What saddles are women using on their Riv mixtes?

['John Phillips' via RBW Owners Bunch]

My wife like the B67 on her tiny 47cm Betty Foy and she uses the Nitto 
lugged seat post.

A lot rides on figuring out how wide your sit bones actually are. Mine are 
wider than average so I'm not comfortable at all on B17's or C17's. I like 
the wide Berthoud saddles, Aubisque & Vars, because I don't get thigh rub 
but they're wide enough for my sit bones. 

John

On Wednesday, February 2, 2022 at 1:04:36 PM UTC-8 Linda G wrote:

> I am curious about this because I have tried different saddles on my 
> non-Riv (but similar) lugged steel Velo Orange mixte. What I am looking for 
> may not exist but someone may know of or be using a saddle I haven't run 
> across. I've tried a Brooks B17s, Terry Cite-x and an old Avocet women's 
> touring saddle. The honey brown B17s looks the best but is just not that 
> comfortable. The slippery finish and flared side skirts seem to be part of 
> the problem. I don't really want to punch holes in the skirts and try to 
> tie it together like some people do. The Cite-x is about the size of the 
> Brooks and quite comfortable but looks like an overstuffed sofa. I don't 
> mind the modern look of the Terry touring saddles I have on my other 2 
> bikes, including a Roadini, but I just don't like the look of the Cite-x. 
> The touring saddles are a little too narrow for the mixte. I'm not 
> interested in the Brookes with springs. If the Brooks Cambium came in a 
> short version I would try that. Normal length saddles feel unsafe for me 
> since I catch clothing like baggy shorts on the nose or it just makes 
> getting on and off the bike more difficult. Any experiences or thoughts?
> Linda
>

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[RBW] Re: [Repainted] Bombadil on its Archetypal Route

['John Phillips' via RBW Owners Bunch]

Beautiful, money well spent!

I was kinda surprised to see the albatross bars after the Aherne bars, how 
did you like them on those trails? And how did the Pass & Stow rack play 
with the Motolites?

John

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[RBW] Re: Groups.Google

['John Phillips' via RBW Owners Bunch]

Rick(?) and Ron,  How are you guys trying to use the group: phone vs 
computer, in email or browser?

The last few days it has been kinda glitchy when I'm logged in thru the 
Firefox browser on my laptop. I really miss the old format, but I've never 
liked adapting to software upgrades, and I still miss DOS. I guess it's 
appropriate my bikes head badge is a wooly mammoth.

John

On Tuesday, January 11, 2022 at 5:57:42 AM UTC-8 rickur...@gmail.com wrote:

> I love my Rivendell, and I love Rivendell owners! 
> But, I despise this Google group format! 
> I wish there was another way. I'm sure there is, I just don't know what it 
> is
>

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[RBW] Re: Ron's Ortho Bars in stock at Crust

['John Phillips' via RBW Owners Bunch]

69cm is just more than minimal width for my shoulders & wrists. But I'm 
praying these bars aren't TOO flexy for me, and that pairing with a long, 
low stem will give me some breathing room.

In those Radavist photos, I noticed Uncle Ron has his stem down below his 
saddle, and is gripping those bars at the inside end of those grips.

My intuition is telling me a bullmoose version of these bars with a 170mm 
quill would fit my Hunqapillar better.

John

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Re: [RBW] Re: Ron's Ortho Bars in stock at Crust

['John Phillips' via RBW Owners Bunch]

Maybe send Crust an email? 

Maybe there's a glitch in their shipping calculator, an extra $16 to ship 2 
rolls of Newbaum's seems weird.

John

On Wednesday, January 5, 2022 at 4:35:00 PM UTC-8 eric...@gmail.com wrote:

> Getting off-topic here but shipping from Crust is outrageous. $14 to ship 
> just the bars to me (I'm an hour away from the by car). If I add two rolls 
> of Newbaums shipping jumps to $30!! It had to be said. Thanks for 
> listening. 
>
> On Wednesday, January 5, 2022 at 6:45:05 PM UTC-5 John Phillips wrote:
>
>> Cool, thanks Danny.
>>
>> John
>>
>> On Wednesday, January 5, 2022 at 3:11:39 PM UTC-8 Dee Dee wrote:
>>
>>> They’re 69 cm wide according to his post on Instagram.
>>>
>>> -Danny
>>>
>>> On Wed, Jan 5, 2022 at 5:08 PM 'John Phillips' via RBW Owners Bunch <
>>> rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Thanks for posting, I've been wanting to try out these bars since I 
>>>> first saw a photo of them in one of Ron's emails 11 months ago, and 
>>>> they're 
>>>> nearly sold out already.
>>>>
>>>> Ron said they'd be something line 67-69cm, but I didn't see too many 
>>>> spec's listed. Does anyone know how wide these bars are?
>>>>
>>>> John
>>>>
>>>> On Wednesday, January 5, 2022 at 10:49:06 AM UTC-8 eric...@gmail.com 
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Some have cyclers have been waiting for these, Ron's swept-back super 
>>>>> wide bars. They quietly went up on the Crust site this week. I believe 
>>>>> these are based on Bosco bars that Ron modified by somehow flattening and 
>>>>> bending them to make 'em wider.  
>>>>>
>>>>> https://crustbikes.com/products/rons-ortho-bar-for-whenever-it-shows-up
>>>>>
>>>> -- 
>>>>
>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google 
>>>> Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send 
>>>> an email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com.
>>>>
>>> To view this discussion on the web visit 
>>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/3f573fff-770f-4ba0-bf41-83c9125cf6c7n%40googlegroups.com
>>>>  
>>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/3f573fff-770f-4ba0-bf41-83c9125cf6c7n%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email_source=footer>
>>>> .
>>>>
>>>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Ron's Ortho Bars in stock at Crust

['John Phillips' via RBW Owners Bunch]

Cool, thanks Danny.

John

On Wednesday, January 5, 2022 at 3:11:39 PM UTC-8 Dee Dee wrote:

> They’re 69 cm wide according to his post on Instagram.
>
> -Danny
>
> On Wed, Jan 5, 2022 at 5:08 PM 'John Phillips' via RBW Owners Bunch <
> rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com> wrote:
>
>> Thanks for posting, I've been wanting to try out these bars since I first 
>> saw a photo of them in one of Ron's emails 11 months ago, and they're 
>> nearly sold out already.
>>
>> Ron said they'd be something line 67-69cm, but I didn't see too many 
>> spec's listed. Does anyone know how wide these bars are?
>>
>> John
>>
>> On Wednesday, January 5, 2022 at 10:49:06 AM UTC-8 eric...@gmail.com 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Some have cyclers have been waiting for these, Ron's swept-back super 
>>> wide bars. They quietly went up on the Crust site this week. I believe 
>>> these are based on Bosco bars that Ron modified by somehow flattening and 
>>> bending them to make 'em wider.  
>>>
>>> https://crustbikes.com/products/rons-ortho-bar-for-whenever-it-shows-up
>>>
>> -- 
>>
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
>> "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
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>> email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com.
>>
> To view this discussion on the web visit 
>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/3f573fff-770f-4ba0-bf41-83c9125cf6c7n%40googlegroups.com
>>  
>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/3f573fff-770f-4ba0-bf41-83c9125cf6c7n%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email_source=footer>
>> .
>>
>

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[RBW] Re: Ron's Ortho Bars in stock at Crust

['John Phillips' via RBW Owners Bunch]

Thanks for posting, I've been wanting to try out these bars since I first 
saw a photo of them in one of Ron's emails 11 months ago, and they're 
nearly sold out already.

Ron said they'd be something line 67-69cm, but I didn't see too many spec's 
listed. Does anyone know how wide these bars are?

John

On Wednesday, January 5, 2022 at 10:49:06 AM UTC-8 eric...@gmail.com wrote:

> Some have cyclers have been waiting for these, Ron's swept-back super wide 
> bars. They quietly went up on the Crust site this week. I believe these are 
> based on Bosco bars that Ron modified by somehow flattening and bending 
> them to make 'em wider.  
>
> https://crustbikes.com/products/rons-ortho-bar-for-whenever-it-shows-up
>

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[RBW] Re: Bar tape and shellac combination to match cream details

['John Phillips' via RBW Owners Bunch]

You could also dilute amber shellac with clear shellac and try that over 
white bar tape. There are also some lighter amber colors of shellac 
available from https://www.shellac.net/button_shellac.html if you like to 
mix your own. The button shellac is also more durable and has a slightly 
tackier/grippier feeling when wet, at least to my hands. The "Super Golden 
Kusmi Button Shellac" would be nice over white. Diluting the pre-made 
canned shellac and applying more layers is better than one thicker layer 
which will start flaking off after awhile.

John Phillips

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[RBW] Re: Thousand Helmets

['John Phillips' via RBW Owners Bunch]

  I haven't tried these one, but I always either try before I buy or order 
from places with a good return policy. You can never tell if a helmet is 
shaped for round or oval heads, or is suitably adjustable.

These Riv helmets look too hot for my head, but my head runs hot even if 
I'm asleep. I have a POC MIPS helmet which has ventilation which works ok 
for my head.

I understand where Grant is coming from regarding helmets, but he's 
confusing several different hypotheses about helmets into one confused 
hypothesis if one is contemplating whether to wear a helmet or not:
1) Does wearing a bike helmet reduce or increase incidence of serious 
injuries, and which kinds of injuries?
2) Does wearing a bike helmet cause or prevent serious injuries, and which 
kinds of injuries?
3) Which types/models of bike helmets are better or worse at causing or 
preventing serious injuries?
4) Which models of helmets are more durable?
4) Does wearing a bike helmet result in a reduction or increase in reckless 
cyclist behavior?
5) Etc,

One can always avoid becoming a reckless cyclist oneself once you place a 
helmet on your head. My wife has worked with people suffering from 
traumatic brain injury, and from what she's told me, wearing a helmet and 
riding cautiously is the way I want to ride.
John

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[RBW] Re: A Hunq

['John Phillips' via RBW Owners Bunch]

My 54cm Hunq was built in 2013, and I thought I was told it was being built 
by Waterford, but I don't see a "W" in the serial number. Maybe I'm 
misremembering, or maybe I need new reading glasses?

+1 on never selling my Hunq, it's perfect for me. I can't see how anyone 
can use bars that come back farther than Albatross bars though. I need to 
use a 12-13cm stem with Alba's or I suffer from claustrophobia, even when 
using a lugged seat post.

John

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[RBW] Re: Do you use a torque wrench? Or are they a

['John Phillips' via RBW Owners Bunch]

Garth, I think you summed it all up beautifully, and my fingers couldn't 
agree with you more. And you made me laugh.
 
John

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[RBW] Re: Do you use a torque wrench? Or are they a

['John Phillips' via RBW Owners Bunch]

Thank you for all your responses, and thank you George for the reminding me 
of that earlier thread. I read the whole thread more carefully this time.

So I pulled out a short torx head wrench and felt much more in control 
relying on my fingers to feel my way. I'm just going to stick with my 
pinkies from now on.  I was installing bamboo handlebars in a Paul Boxcar 
stem, and having no experience with either, I thought, "Don't take any 
chances, use the torque wrench." 

That torque wrench is now $250 at REI, so it wasn't a cheap one. I must 
have used my annual membership dividend to buy it, but I was hoping I was 
getting what I paid for at the time.

Thanks again everyone,  John

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[RBW] Do you use a torque wrench? Or are they a

['John Phillips' via RBW Owners Bunch]

   Just found my 2nd torque wrench has died, after less than ten uses, 
after being properly stored, in a dry place, in its box, with the tension 
relaxed.

   I started putting my Effetto Mariposa through the warm up calibration, 
and no clicks at 16Nm nor 3 Nm nor any Nm setting. I wanted to install a 
Paul Boxcar stem on my Hunq, my first 31.8mm stem, and I wanted to get it 
right, but now I'm left with just my own wrenching touchy feelyness.

   My Park Tools torque wench was dead on arrival, and now my second much 
more pricey Effetto Mariposa has abandoned its mortal coil and left me 
checking the REI return policy. What gives? Is the normal? I have trout 
flies that have lasted longer! Jeez! I still use my first, now 52 years 
old, fiberglass fly rod. I know I'm not Godzilla.

   Are there any reliable torque wrenches out there for 3-5.5Nm wrenching, 
or are they just a waste of money if you're a careful mechanic?

Sorry for the ranting, but I'd really like to know what you all depend on.

Thanks, John

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[RBW] Re: Toyo Atlantis- Classic frame, New build

['John Phillips' via RBW Owners Bunch]

John, 
Beautiful build!  Did you choose an Albastache bar or a Moustache bar? 
Hard for me to tell from this angle.

John

On Wednesday, July 7, 2021 at 7:08:25 PM UTC-7 John Rinker wrote:

> Several months ago, a gentleman named NC Tom passed along a beautiful 64cm 
> Toyo Atlantis to me. As I was in Japan at the time, the frame, expertly 
> packed and shipped, waited for me at my Dad's place. 
>
> It is now summer in BC and the frame is now a full-fledged bike, built 
> mostly from parts laying around or 'borrowed' from my '94 Yeti ARC. I did 
> pick up a new rack and seatpost at BlueLug in Hatagaya before leaving 
> Japan, and I built some new wheels with some 25-year old Chris King hubs 
> that sing like the day I got 'em. The ride is zippy, nimble, responsive, 
> but most of all super comfortable. The paint is pristine and there are some 
> exquisite details from the craftsmen at Toyo. A lovely Riv, indeed.
>
> Cheers to NC Tom!
>
> [image: ToyoAtlantis2005.jpeg]
>

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[RBW] Leather Handlebar Tape & Obenauf's?

['John Phillips' via RBW Owners Bunch]

   Should I treat the top side of my leather bar tape with Obenauf's before 
wrapping, or after wrapping? Or am I overthinking this?

Thanks,
John

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[RBW] PSA: Cyclists Robbed of Bikes in Berkeley Hills

['John Phillips' via RBW Owners Bunch]

   Just a heads up to riders who frequent Grizzly Peak Road. Article in 
Berkeleyside doesn't say what kinds of bikes, if any, are being targeted:

https://www.berkeleyside.com/2021/04/01/bike-robberies-grizzly-peak-berkeley-oakland-east-bay-hills

John Phillips

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Re: [RBW] Re: Albatross and Choco riders

['John Phillips' via RBW Owners Bunch]

  I tilt my Albatross bars down like Eric's Alba's or Tom's Tosco's. I like 
a nearly 90 degree angle between the bar and my arm/wrist. With stem length 
& height, bar height, bar angle, and grips, everyone's needs are different 
, but one absolutely needs to tighten that bar clamp.

John

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[RBW] Re: Map bar: 80-85%

['John Phillips' via RBW Owners Bunch]

   Ergon's GC1 grips were designed for bars like MAP bars. I've liked both 
the Ergon GP1's and the GC1's as well as both the SQLAB 702 & 710 grips on 
Riv Bullmose bars & Wavie bars. For palm issues I would recommend the SQLAB 
702 grips. Both SQLAB grips come in S, M & L sizes and sizing info is on 
their website. I use a large size Ergon grip but a medium size SQLAB grip. 
SQLAB grips are less slippery on sweaty days.

Ergon has bar end options for their grips, and SQLAB has InnerBarEnds which 
mount just inside the grip which I like better than the Ergon style.

They're all good choices for dealing with hand issues but YMMV.

John



On Monday, March 1, 2021 at 2:46:21 PM UTC-8 Patrick Moore wrote:

> Taking the Maes Parallel in 38 to 42 widths as the 100% benchmark:
>
> The new bar puts my hands at just the right angle at the ends, and the 
> curves are very nice for cruising. The width (61 versus the 57 I thought 
> might be better but which doesn't come in 31.8) is also very nice, tho' it 
> does feel a bit too close; but then again, closer means slightly more 
> upright, so a tradeoff, call it even.
>
> Con: Like just about any bar except drop bars it hurts my very sensitive 
> left palm -- the outer pad. I have to conscientiously move my hand around 
> every few minutes, and basically find different ways to hang the outside of 
> the palm off the bar, either inside or outside. That was easier with the 
> original mtb bar.
>
> I can go about 15 miles before my palm starts tingling too much and starts 
> going numb.
>
> Overall: I think this wins by a few points; must try it more. Eventually, 
> I think I'll try the Dajia Far bar: 44 cm at hoods, so not horribly wide.
>
> Patrick "the numbers are metaphors, not measurements" Moore
>
> -- 
>
> ---
> Patrick Moore
> Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum
>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Albatross and Choco riders

['John Phillips' via RBW Owners Bunch]

Eric, I mounted my Albatross bars on a Nitto NP 12cm stem (measures 12.5cm) 
with the stem at saddle height and bars angled down to be at a 90 degree 
angle to my arms. This angle keeps my wrists from kinking and places the 
curves of the bars about 5cm above my saddle. My saddle is slammed back on 
a Nitto lugged seat post with 4cm's of setback. This gives me a full hand's 
grip both in front and behind the stem bolt, but my hands always migrate 
forward and my weight isn't resting on my hands due to the seat post's 
setback. 

This works for me, but I don't like riding sitting bolt upright on my bikes.

YMMV,

John

On Friday, February 26, 2021 at 10:11:27 AM UTC-8 eric...@gmail.com wrote:

> Stumbled upon this thread and have some questions about my own Albatross 
> fitting. I converted to these bars from drops. I've yet to fall in love 
> with them and have problems with neck pain on rides longer than 30 miles. 
>
> I'm on a threadless bike and have tried a few stems and configurations 
> with the same bars, a total of four positions. I have 110mm and 90mm stems, 
> both with 17º rise. I've tried them with the stems flipped in both 
> configurations. I should also add that I'm on a 60cm bike that is a little 
> big for me. I've got less than a fist full of seat post showing. 
>
> My current configuration is with the 110mm stem set up to give the most 
> rise. I find myself, in all configurations, favoring the grip in front of 
> the brake levers. 
>
> Anyone out there have any ideas for improved fit?
> On Friday, November 13, 2020 at 4:38:20 PM UTC-5 jrst...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>>
>> Thanks Pete, just got the Choco bars from Blue Lug as Riv is our with no 
>> known delivery time.  I paid a $27 premium for 2 shipped so not bad.  
>> On Friday, November 13, 2020 at 12:02:21 PM UTC-5 Pete P wrote:
>>
>>> I first tried upright h’bars on my older Atala bike. Just to see if it
>>>
>>> would work for me. I bought Albatross bars and it was a revelation!
>>>
>>> So on my Atlantis I ditched my noodle drop bars and chose the Choco
>>>
>>> bars - just for variety.  I  like both of these. (I won’t go back to 
>>> those
>>>
>>> now uncomfortable drop bars). 
>>>
>>> They both have their plusses and minuses. The Albatross are wider and
>>>
>>> Go through the doorway with more caution. The Choco bar doesn’t rise
>>>
>>> up as much but the position on the curves is a favorite of mine. You 
>>> can’t go wrong with either one!
>>>
>>>
>>> Pete
>>>
>>> On Friday, November 6, 2020 at 6:33:05 AM UTC-6 Joel S wrote:
>>>
 Thanks Roberta.  

 On Fri, Nov 6, 2020 at 4:11 AM Roberta  wrote:

> My understanding is that the *bars* are the same shape and size; they 
> differ in the stem attachment. I have  the c-m ones because that's what 
> came with the bike. The norm version is more versatile. 
>
> There is a lot of choco-love here   Good luck with your search. 
>
>
> On Thursday, November 5, 2020 at 10:09:55 PM UTC-5, Joel S wrote:
>>
>> Thanks Roberta.  It is the Choco Norm I am thinking about. 
>>
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[RBW] Re: I decided to ditch LOSCO

['John Phillips' via RBW Owners Bunch]

Roberta, 
 Riv had built my Hunqapillar up with the Crystal Fellow seat post and 
11cm Tallux stem and Albatross bars. I later switched seat posts to the 
Lugged, giving me about 20mm additional setback, and switched to a 12cm 
Nitto NP stem moving my Albatross bars about 30mm forward and 40mm lower. 
My Albas are still about 50mm higher than my saddle. 

I haven't found any bars I like as much as the Albas, but it took quite a 
bit of tweaking and cash to make sure they were the bars I wanted to stick 
with.

John

On Tuesday, February 23, 2021 at 6:07:34 PM UTC-8 Roberta wrote:

> All very interesting.  I'm going to start with the Losco's first since 
> there's more real estate on that bar.  
>
> I have an Albatross bar on my Homer and love it!  So, I put one on my Joe 
> A and really disliked it!  I swapped out Joe's Albatross back to the 
> original Choco-moose bar and love it again.  Twp Albatross bars, two bikes 
> and totally different opinion.  (I actually suspect it wasn't the Albatross 
> bar on the Joe A that I was reacting to but the too short stem I used with 
> it).
>
> Brett, love your Atlantis in it's "natural" outfit!  
>
>
>
> On Tuesday, February 23, 2021 at 6:42:00 PM UTC-5 John Phillips wrote:
>
>>Never tried the Losco bars, but I liked the stiffness of the bullmoose 
>> bosco bars, and not the flex of the regular bosco bars, especially when 
>> pedaling standing up out the saddle, and both versions made for a very 
>> cramped cockpit. But then I'm most comfortable on my Hunqapillar with a 
>> long stem and a the Nitto lugged seat post.
>>
>> And when I have a front load, I found bars with a grip closer to the load 
>> makes for easier handling, like my albatross bars on a 12cm long stem 
>> gripped up near the curves, but YMMV cause everyone's different.
>>
>> John
>>
>

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[RBW] Re: I decided to ditch LOSCO

['John Phillips' via RBW Owners Bunch]

   Never tried the Losco bars, but I liked the stiffness of the bullmoose 
bosco bars, and not the flex of the regular bosco bars, especially when 
pedaling standing up out the saddle, and both versions made for a very 
cramped cockpit. But then I'm most comfortable on my Hunqapillar with a 
long stem and a the Nitto lugged seat post.

And when I have a front load, I found bars with a grip closer to the load 
makes for easier handling, like my albatross bars on a 12cm long stem 
gripped up near the curves, but YMMV cause everyone's different.

John

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[RBW] Re: How to Video for First Time Cloth Bar wrappers

['John Phillips' via RBW Owners Bunch]

Nice video! Thanks!

On Tuesday, February 16, 2021 at 10:16:54 AM UTC-8 James / Analog Cycles 
wrote:

> We put together a cloth bar wrapping primer for first timers.  It's a bit 
> different than the Riv method, and involves Fizik Gel.  I'd say it's 
> easier, but more involved, than most methods, just cause we use glue.  New 
> to the shop gal Tikko put the vid together, Candice does the wrapping.  
>
>
> https://youtu.be/vFwLiWboeBk
>
> -James / Analog Cycles
>
>

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[RBW] Re: Nitto (or other) quill bullmoose wanted

['John Phillips' via RBW Owners Bunch]

Looks like it would work then!

John

On Sunday, November 15, 2020 at 2:23:42 PM UTC-8 Lucky wrote:

> I feel like I have a lot of room to mess around on this bike. I've run it 
> with drops, mustache bars, and like Steve, I'll now be going from an 
> Albatross (with Dirt Drop), and I honestly wouldn't mind a little more 
> reach. And if I don't like it, I can put in on a different bike. But I 
> currently have an older Stumpjumper set up very much like the attached pic 
> of my Atlantis, so I'm covered in that area.
> Steve, thank you for the review/info. 
>
> [image: IMG_5881.jpg]
>
> On Sunday, November 15, 2020 at 12:01:28 PM UTC-8 John Phillips wrote:
>
>> If you haven't done this yet, check the height of your seat vs the height 
>> you want your bars. I have barely a fistful of seat post showing on my 
>> Hunqapillar, and the quill bullmoose was too tall for me. If I wanted my 
>> bars 2-3 inches higher than my saddle, then the quill bullmoose bars would 
>> have been ok. The short head tube of my Hunq can swallow no more than 125mm 
>> of a quill stem & these bars have quite a bit of rise.
>>
>> I agree with Steve that the sweep of the bars is perfect, so I plan to 
>> try out one the of the threadless versions of the bullmoose with a short 
>> quill adapter to see if that approach will get my bars low enough to be 
>> comfortable.
>>
>> John
>>
>> On Sunday, November 15, 2020 at 8:33:21 AM UTC-8 Lucky wrote:
>>
>>> I can't stop thinking about trying a Bullmoose bar on my Atlantis. 
>>> Anyone have a quill Bullmoose they'd part with? I don't mind if the finish 
>>> isn't perfect, it'll match my Atlantis. Send me a message if you have one, 
>>> I'm in Sacramento. Thanks! 
>>
>>

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[RBW] Re: Nitto (or other) quill bullmoose wanted

['John Phillips' via RBW Owners Bunch]

If you haven't done this yet, check the height of your seat vs the height 
you want your bars. I have barely a fistful of seat post showing on my 
Hunqapillar, and the quill bullmoose was too tall for me. If I wanted my 
bars 2-3 inches higher than my saddle, then the quill bullmoose bars would 
have been ok. The short head tube of my Hunq can swallow no more than 125mm 
of a quill stem & these bars have quite a bit of rise.

I agree with Steve that the sweep of the bars is perfect, so I plan to try 
out one the of the threadless versions of the bullmoose with a short quill 
adapter to see if that approach will get my bars low enough to be 
comfortable.

John

On Sunday, November 15, 2020 at 8:33:21 AM UTC-8 Lucky wrote:

> I can't stop thinking about trying a Bullmoose bar on my Atlantis. Anyone 
> have a quill Bullmoose they'd part with? I don't mind if the finish isn't 
> perfect, it'll match my Atlantis. Send me a message if you have one, I'm in 
> Sacramento. Thanks! 

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[RBW] Re: Morning coffee; need a new Riv mug

['John Phillips' via RBW Owners Bunch]

   Order one direct from https://www.redwingstoneware.com/ to tide you over 
until the next time Riv has their bicycle mugs in stock?

I broke mine too, but I've been "borrowing" my wife's mug.

John

On Friday, October 9, 2020 at 2:32:29 PM UTC-7, steve wrote:
>
> What can I say.  When a coffee mug meets a tile floor at high speed; the 
> floor wins and you can’t put Humpty Dumpty back together again.  The 
> Rivendell coffee mug was my favorite way to enjoy a cup of coffee in the 
> morning.  Does anyone have one they aren’t using and would be willing to 
> sell?
>
> Steve
>

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[RBW] Re: Best saddle for very upright posture?

['John Phillips' via RBW Owners Bunch]

   Have you figured out your sit bone width yet? The WTB website has a very 
clever widget for figuring out the width of your sit bones using the width 
of your wrist, very cool and easier than pressing your butt into a piece of 
soft cardboard or some such.

   Once you've figured that out, you'll know how many saddles are possible 
solutions. 

   I have wider sit bones, so my options are rather limited. The wide 
Berthoud Aubisque is my "racy" saddle. If I needed wider, I'd probably look 
into Rivet for leather or SQLab for synthetic. The Brooks B67 fit me, but 
rubbed my thighs.

   SqLab makes/sells synthetic saddle models each with multiple widths.

YMMV, 

John

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[RBW] Re: Albatross bars: 25.4mm vs 31.8mm???

['John Phillips' via RBW Owners Bunch]

Hi Garth,

 I had thought about writing the vendors, but I have a bit more 
confidence in the opinions and feedback of the members of the RBW Bunch. 
After following the group for several years, one gets a good feeling about 
where everyone is coming from when they give their take on something.  ;-)

John

On Wednesday, September 23, 2020 at 10:34:06 AM UTC-7, Garth wrote:
>
>
> You could always email any vendor John, or even Nitto. Unless someone 
> has experience with both bars they may not be able to tell the difference. 
> Other than Nitto, I'd try the Southerndistributors.uk as I've "heard" Soma 
> isn't so the best at return emails. 
>
>
>
> On Wednesday, September 23, 2020 at 11:54:47 AM UTC-4, John Phillips wrote:
>>
>> Thanks Garth,  I agree, the older 56cm Alba's are perfect, especially for 
>> me with wider shoulders for my height. The 56cm bars are much wider up near 
>> the curves than the 55cm bars and so much more comfortable, at least for me.
>>
>>  The 31.8mm Albatross bars are listed as 56cm's wide in both online 
>> stores where they're listed. I couldn't find them in a Nitto catalog, so I 
>> was hoping someone on the list here might have actually seen them "in the 
>> flesh' and could verify they're shape & width. I really would like to put 
>> another set of 56cm bars on my Homer Hilsen, and I'm hoping the 31.8mm 
>> version would fit the bill.
>>
>> John
>> On Wednesday, September 23, 2020 at 3:07:50 AM UTC-7 Garth wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>
>>>John, I would certainly think the curve of a 31.8/56 Albatross would 
>>> be the same as the 25.4 version. I have the 25.4/56 also which I too love, 
>>> whereas the 55 was a real downer as the curve radius was indeed notably 
>>> smaller in-hand. Nitto should have never stopped making the 56 steel Alba. 
>>>
>>>   Alternatively, someone here on the list mention Doom custom Bars, who 
>>> advertises on Instagram. He can make a bar with the same shape as the Alba, 
>>> or tweak it any way you want in widths and angles. They are all 22.2 cr-mo 
>>> bars, requiring shims for larger stems.  $100 for the bars in black, + $50 
>>> for a nickel plated version. 
>>>
>>> https://www.instagram.com/doom.bars/?hl=en
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Tuesday, September 22, 2020 at 4:59:34 PM UTC-4, John Phillips wrote:

Albatross handlebars, has anyone compared the shape of the 25.4mm 
 clamp version to the shape of the 31.8mm clamp bar?

I have a set of the old 56cm wide 25.4mm clamp version of the 
 Albatross bars, which I like very much and are significantly wider up to 
 the curves, and I wondered if the 31.8mm version had a similar curve? Soma 
 Fabrication website lists the 31.8mm bars as 56cm wide, but I can't find 
 any more info on the 31.8mm version.

 Does anyone know anything about the 31.8mm version of the Albatross bar?

 Thanks much,

 John

>>>

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[RBW] Re: Albatross bars: 25.4mm vs 31.8mm???

['John Phillips' via RBW Owners Bunch]

Thanks Garth,  I agree, the older 56cm Alba's are perfect, especially for 
me with wider shoulders for my height. The 56cm bars are much wider up near 
the curves than the 55cm bars and so much more comfortable, at least for me.

 The 31.8mm Albatross bars are listed as 56cm's wide in both online 
stores where they're listed. I couldn't find them in a Nitto catalog, so I 
was hoping someone on the list here might have actually seen them "in the 
flesh' and could verify they're shape & width. I really would like to put 
another set of 56cm bars on my Homer Hilsen, and I'm hoping the 31.8mm 
version would fit the bill.

John
On Wednesday, September 23, 2020 at 3:07:50 AM UTC-7 Garth wrote:

>
>
>John, I would certainly think the curve of a 31.8/56 Albatross would be 
> the same as the 25.4 version. I have the 25.4/56 also which I too love, 
> whereas the 55 was a real downer as the curve radius was indeed notably 
> smaller in-hand. Nitto should have never stopped making the 56 steel Alba. 
>
>   Alternatively, someone here on the list mention Doom custom Bars, who 
> advertises on Instagram. He can make a bar with the same shape as the Alba, 
> or tweak it any way you want in widths and angles. They are all 22.2 cr-mo 
> bars, requiring shims for larger stems.  $100 for the bars in black, + $50 
> for a nickel plated version. 
>
> https://www.instagram.com/doom.bars/?hl=en
>
>
>
>
> On Tuesday, September 22, 2020 at 4:59:34 PM UTC-4, John Phillips wrote:
>>
>>Albatross handlebars, has anyone compared the shape of the 25.4mm 
>> clamp version to the shape of the 31.8mm clamp bar?
>>
>>I have a set of the old 56cm wide 25.4mm clamp version of the 
>> Albatross bars, which I like very much and are significantly wider up to 
>> the curves, and I wondered if the 31.8mm version had a similar curve? Soma 
>> Fabrication website lists the 31.8mm bars as 56cm wide, but I can't find 
>> any more info on the 31.8mm version.
>>
>> Does anyone know anything about the 31.8mm version of the Albatross bar?
>>
>> Thanks much,
>>
>> John
>>
>

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[RBW] Albatross bars: 25.4mm vs 31.8mm???

['John Phillips' via RBW Owners Bunch]

   Albatross handlebars, has anyone compared the shape of the 25.4mm clamp 
version to the shape of the 31.8mm clamp bar?

   I have a set of the old 56cm wide 25.4mm clamp version of the Albatross 
bars, which I like very much and are significantly wider up to the curves, 
and I wondered if the 31.8mm version had a similar curve? Soma Fabrication 
website lists the 31.8mm bars as 56cm wide, but I can't find any more info 
on the 31.8mm version.

Does anyone know anything about the 31.8mm version of the Albatross bar?

Thanks much,

John

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[RBW] Re: Good wishes for those on list affected by CA wildfires

['John Phillips' via RBW Owners Bunch]

Living in the middle of all this smoke, I've been monitoring our air 
quality on PurpleAir's website. The amount of 
information available through PurpleAir depends upon the density of people 
who have purchased & installed their sensors, but people have installed 
their sensors worldwide, and you can monitor air quality, humidity & 
temperature. I noticed SF Bay Area news stations are now using the 
PurpleAir maps in their news casts.

John

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[RBW] Re: Thoughts on albastach bars

['John Phillips' via RBW Owners Bunch]

I haven't tried the Albastache, but here is a useful website for comparing 
handlebars:

https://whatbars.com/

John

On Thursday, August 13, 2020 at 1:19:27 PM UTC-7 Sam Perez wrote:

> Hi everyone I'm new to the group and absolutely enjoy riv bikes and 
> components. Any thoughts on albastach? Does it go as far back as the 
> albatross?

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[RBW] Re: Path Less Pedaled will review a Riv!

['John Phillips' via RBW Owners Bunch]

I think these are the 56cm wide Nitto Albatross bars that Soma offers with 
the 31.8mm clamp diameter:

Nitto Albatross Bars 


John

On Tuesday, August 11, 2020 at 6:08:07 AM UTC-7 Joel wrote:

>
> This is their version, I do not believe it is a Nitto.  
> https://www.somafab.com/archives/product/oxford-bar
>
> On Tuesday, August 11, 2020 at 7:34:28 AM UTC-4, masmojo wrote:
>>
>> I noticed recently that SOMA only has one 56cm wide Albatross listed & 
>> it's for 31.8 clamps!?
>>
>>
>> H . . . . ?
>>
>

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[RBW] Re: Path Less Pedaled will review a Riv!

['John Phillips' via RBW Owners Bunch]

Oh, and one more thing: switched from the 55cm cromo Alba to an old 56cm 
wide HA Albatross bar. That teensy 1cm more width is nice too. I wish Nitto 
still made them that way.

John

On Sunday, August 9, 2020 at 3:52:31 PM UTC-7 John Phillips wrote:

> I wasn't able to get comfortable on my Albatross bars until I switched to 
> a lower Nitto NP 12cm stem, and the Nitto S84 seat post with 4cm setback. I 
> also tilt them down so the bar is perpendicular to my arm and my wrist is 
> straight. I simply needed more space, more reach, and to take the kinks out 
> of my wrists.
>
> YMMV of course,
>
> John
>
> On Thursday, August 6, 2020 at 5:14:15 AM UTC-7 Chris L wrote:
>
>> I have tried the albatross bars several times, on several bikes, 
>> including my Hunqapillar.  I really, really want to like them but I just 
>> can't.  The only spot on the bar I found tolerable was at the very front of 
>> the curves, and I'm not a drop bar rider.  
>>
>

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[RBW] Re: Path Less Pedaled will review a Riv!

['John Phillips' via RBW Owners Bunch]

I wasn't able to get comfortable on my Albatross bars until I switched to a 
lower Nitto NP 12cm stem, and the Nitto S84 seat post with 4cm setback. I 
also tilt them down so the bar is perpendicular to my arm and my wrist is 
straight. I simply needed more space, more reach, and to take the kinks out 
of my wrists.

YMMV of course,

John

On Thursday, August 6, 2020 at 5:14:15 AM UTC-7 Chris L wrote:

> I have tried the albatross bars several times, on several bikes, including 
> my Hunqapillar.  I really, really want to like them but I just can't.  The 
> only spot on the bar I found tolerable was at the very front of the curves, 
> and I'm not a drop bar rider.  
>

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[RBW] Re: Paul Netro-Retro Cantilevers & Straddle Cable Height: where is your happy place?

['John Phillips' via RBW Owners Bunch]

Hi Mark,

I found this blog post of Mike Varley's to also be a big help:

https://blackmtncycles.com/get-the-most-out-of-your-canti-brake/

John

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[RBW] Re: Paul Netro-Retro Cantilevers & Straddle Cable Height: where is your happy place?

['John Phillips' via RBW Owners Bunch]

There is also this article on cantilever brake geometry:

http://www.circleacycles.com/cantilevers/canti-geometry.pdf

John

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[RBW] Re: Paul Netro-Retro Cantilevers & Straddle Cable Height: where is your happy place?

['John Phillips' via RBW Owners Bunch]

Thanks Laing for the suggestion, but I don't think shifting my Neo-Retro's 
to the rear would give me enough braking power on the rear wheel.

John

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[RBW] Re: Paul Netro-Retro Cantilevers & Straddle Cable Height: where is your happy place?

['John Phillips' via RBW Owners Bunch]

Hi Paul, 
   As for the Touring Canti's having less braking power than the 
Neo-Retro's, the math doesn't seem to bear that out. To get more mechanical 
advantage from my Neo-Retro's, I would need to lower my straddle cable to 
about 5cm's higher than the pivots, placing the cable just above the rim, 
in the middle of my tire, and this just won't work with my 55mm Ant' Hill 
tires. The Touring Canti's will give me the power I need even with the 
straddle cable 10-11cm's higher than the brake pivots. This also clears my 
Nitto front rack fork crown support which will keep the straddle cable from 
snagging knobby tires if my brake cable snaps. The Neo-Retro's might give 
someone with a strong grip enough braking power, but what if I need to 
brake my loaded Hunqapillar with two fingers on a steep, bumpy, paved road? 
Here in Berkeley, we have some really steep streets, and some really scary 
bad drivers, and combining those has me looking for some better braking on 
my front wheel.

   And yes, you're right, futzing with the brake pad spacers won't fix this 
problem. 

John
On Wednesday, July 29, 2020 at 12:41:48 PM UTC-7 Paul Brodek wrote:

> Not to be automatically contrarian, but from a foot/heel clearance 
> standpoint, usual usage is low-profile Touring in the rear to maximize heel 
> clearance, with the Neo-Retros up front, where clearance isn't an issue. 
> Plus the Neo-Retros in front look much cooler. 
>
> I think the low-profile cantis were generally designed to maximize heel 
> clearance, not for performance reasons. In fact, on Paul's website the 
> Touring is described thusly:
> "The Touring Canti is a powerful cantilever brake with a similar design to 
> the Neo-Retro , but with 
> the arms angled upward. This gives the brake a much narrower profile 
> without significantly reducing stopping power."
>
> As for the shoe/arm spacing, isn't that also somewhat dependent on the 
> boss-boss spacing? Relatively narrow boss placement means the wide spacers 
> may not work at all behind the shoes, while relatively wide boss spacing 
> may require using the wider spacers to avoid the arms diving under the rims 
> during braking.
>
> Or am I missing something?
>
> Paul Brodek
> Hillsdale, NJ USA
>
> On Tuesday, July 28, 2020 at 4:24:59 PM UTC-4, lconley wrote:
>>
>> My understanding of the math is that the shorter and straighter the 
>> transverse cable, the more mechanical advantage for both wide angle 
>> (Neo-Retro) and medium angle (Touring) cantilevers, just more so for the 
>> medium angle, but it still helps the wide angle. If you have both, put the 
>> Touring cantilevers on the front where most of the braking is done and 
>> the Neo-Retros on the rear.
>>
>> The distance between the arm and the pad is also important, make sure 
>> that the narrow spacers are on the inside between the pad and arm and the 
>> wide spacers are on the outside of the arm, I believe that this is more 
>> important on the Neo-Retro wide angle models. This rotates the wide angle 
>> arm up so that its geometry is ever so slightly closer to the medium angle 
>> arm geometry.
>>
>> Laing
>> Delray Beach FL
>>
>>


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[RBW] Re: Paul Netro-Retro Cantilevers & Straddle Cable Height: where is your happy place?

['John Phillips' via RBW Owners Bunch]

Thanks Bill, you made me feel a little better in that at least I was 
understanding the math! 

Looks like I'm going to have to buy the Touring Canti's and try out some 
black Kool-Stops.

Thanks,
John



On Tuesday, July 28, 2020 at 1:54:26 PM UTC-7 Bill Lindsay wrote:

> The black Shimano slide in inserts that improved the braking on my black 
> Cliffhangers were that standard Shimano compound.  The compound  almost 
> looks very dark brown.
>
> You understand the MA math correctly.  there's a steep part of the curve 
> for wide cantilevers, but it exists inside the volume of the tire, and you 
> can't get there.   :(
>
> Bill Lindsay
> El Cerrito, CA
>
> On Tuesday, July 28, 2020 at 1:35:10 PM UTC-7 John Phillips wrote:
>
>> So maybe the question I should be asking is, if you're happy with your 
>> Paul Neo-Retro's, what rims and brake pads are you using???
>>
>>I could be completely confused by the math, but it looks to me as 
>> though there is a curve to the response of wider profile canti's to 
>> straddle height, but that curve in the response is so low, I would have to 
>> put the straddle cable though the middle of my tire, at least if I'm trying 
>> to match the braking of my Touring Cant's in the rear. And I don't believe 
>> this solution would work out for me in my situation. 
>>
>>Thanks Bill, I'm guessing the stock Shimano pads were black compound 
>> pads? I'm also using Cliffhanger rims, mine are the plain silver ones, but 
>> I was also thinking about trying out either the black or the dual 
>> black/salmon Kool-Stops to see if they exorcised the shrieking banshees in 
>> my bike.
>>  
>> John
>>
>

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[RBW] Re: Paul Netro-Retro Cantilevers & Straddle Cable Height: where is your happy place?

['John Phillips' via RBW Owners Bunch]

Thanks Laing,  I will check out changing the spacers & washers up like you 
suggest. I don't know if I have much more range to move the pads higher to 
make this work. The Touring Canti's on my back wheel look like they may 
have a bit more range for that kind of tweaking, but definitely worth a try.

What everyone's said so far is confirming my nagging suspicion that I need 
to fork out for a set of Touring Cant's for the front wheel. 

It's not a great habit to have, but I've braked mostly with the back wheel 
since I was a kid. Where I grew up, our roads were mostly bad asphalt or 
decomposed granite, and covered in pine needles & oak leaves in winter with 
fog or rain all year. If you locked up your front wheel on leaves or gravel 
or wet asphalt, you might hit some dry asphalt and fly over your bars. I've 
tried to break the habit for years, but haven't gotten there yet.
Thanks,
John

On Tuesday, July 28, 2020 at 1:24:59 PM UTC-7 lconley wrote:

> My understanding of the math is that the shorter and straighter the 
> transverse cable, the more mechanical advantage for both wide angle 
> (Neo-Retro) and medium angle (Touring) cantilevers, just more so for the 
> medium angle, but it still helps the wide angle. If you have both, put the 
> Touring cantilevers on the front where most of the braking is done and 
> the Neo-Retros on the rear.
>
> The distance between the arm and the pad is also important, make sure that 
> the narrow spacers are on the inside between the pad and arm and the wide 
> spacers are on the outside of the arm, I believe that this is more 
> important on the Neo-Retro wide angle models. This rotates the wide angle 
> arm up so that its geometry is ever so slightly closer to the medium angle 
> arm geometry.
>
> Laing
> Delray Beach FL
>
>
>>>

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[RBW] Re: Paul Netro-Retro Cantilevers & Straddle Cable Height: where is your happy place?

['John Phillips' via RBW Owners Bunch]

So maybe the question I should be asking is, if you're happy with your Paul 
Neo-Retro's, what rims and brake pads are you using???

   I could be completely confused by the math, but it looks to me as though 
there is a curve to the response of wider profile canti's to straddle 
height, but that curve in the response is so low, I would have to put the 
straddle cable though the middle of my tire, at least if I'm trying to 
match the braking of my Touring Cant's in the rear. And I don't believe 
this solution would work out for me in my situation. 

   Thanks Bill, I'm guessing the stock Shimano pads were black compound 
pads? I'm also using Cliffhanger rims, mine are the plain silver ones, but 
I was also thinking about trying out either the black or the dual 
black/salmon Kool-Stops to see if they exorcised the shrieking banshees in 
my bike.
 
John

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[RBW] Paul Netro-Retro Cantilevers & Straddle Cable Height: where is your happy place?

['John Phillips' via RBW Owners Bunch]

Hi, my question is:

  * If, and only if, you are happy with your Paul Neo-Retros, what is the 
height of your straddle cable / cable carrier in relation to the pivots of 
your brakes?*
  
   I'm trying on adjust my Neo-Retro canti's to brake as well, or close to 
as well, as the Paul Touring cant's I have on the back of my Hunqapillar.  
I'm using Paul Canti levers with both. I've read through the info on the 
Black Mountain Cycles blog, and the pdf document Mike Varley has a link to, 
but I'm still not getting the braking I'm hoping for. I'd like to keep the 
straddle cable at least high enough to clear the hole in my fork crown, and 
the Nitto front rack mounted there, if only for safety's sake.

   I've read here that some people found Neo-Retro's frustrating, but some 
people love them. So, I'm hoping your anecdotes and testimonials will point 
me in the right direction, 'cause I'm puzzled.

Thanks for your help,
John

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[RBW] Re: Hunqapillar vs Appaloosa ride quality?

['John Phillips' via RBW Owners Bunch]

   Back in 2013, I test rode an Appaloosa prototype while waiting for my 
Hunqapillar to be made. I didn't pick it up to feel its weight compared to 
the demo Hunqapillars at Riv, but it did ride much differently than the 
Hunqapillar. The longer chains stays give the ride a much different feel. I 
liked it, but I don't remember wishing I could have ordered it instead of 
the Hunqapillar. Some people really love the longer chain stay Rivendells, 
but I didn't think Riv bikes needed a smoother ride.

   I really liked the feel of the Hunqapillar, and it already had that 
Rivendell touring bicycle geometry. It felt perfect to me. I think the 
Hunqapillar has more trail than other Riv models, more wheel flop, but it 
never bothered me. As far as the weight of my 54cm Hunq goes, I carry it up 
the stairs to our 3rd floor apartment without any problem when the elevator 
breaks down. If I had purchased a longer chain stay Rivendell, it wouldn't 
fit in my elevator (it's a tiny elevator), and would stick out to the sides 
a bit more on my bike rack, and be a bit less manageable on trains.

   But I have absolutely no idea what *you* would think if you could ride 
the Hunq & Appaloosa back to back.

Here's what the Rivendell catalog said about the Hunqapillar when I ordered 
it in Dec. 2012:

http://www.rivbike.com/product-p/f-hunqapillar.htm

YMMV,

John

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[RBW] Re: Your Favorite Adhesive for Riv Cork Grips???

['John Phillips' via RBW Owners Bunch]

Hi Jim,

   Would you guess you use a strip of Newbaum's somewhere between 1/2 the 
length of the cork grip and the full length of the grip?

John

On Wednesday, July 15, 2020 at 1:58:20 PM UTC-7, Jim S. wrote:
>
> John, I just use a strip length-wise under the grip. You could try one on 
> the top and one on the bottom, if one strip alone isn't tight enough. I 
> can't figure out why, but the length of the strip matters. A longer strip 
> seems to hold it in place more than a shorter one, but I"ve had it where if 
> I make the strip too long, I can't get the grip on to the bar. So there's a 
> sweet spot.
>
> On Wednesday, July 15, 2020 at 2:29:49 PM UTC-5 John Phillips wrote:
>
>> Hi Jim,
>>
>>  Are you using one strip of Newbaum's on the handlebar length-wise 
>> under the grip, or wrapping a strip of Newbaum's around the bar under the 
>> grip?
>>
>> If I could get cork grips to work without glue, that would be fantastic.
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> John
>>
>> On Wednesday, July 15, 2020 at 5:58:34 AM UTC-7, Jim S. wrote:
>>>
>>> John, I've had success with a strip of newbaum's tape. No glue, no 
>>> nothing else. If you don't have enough tape, they'll rotate. If you use too 
>>> much tape,  you can't get the grips on. But you'll figure out an amount 
>>> that holds the grips in place. Then you can remove the grips later without 
>>> needing a blow torch.
>>>
>>> On Monday, July 13, 2020 at 12:19:26 PM UTC-5 John Phillips wrote:
>>>
   Do you have a favorite adhesive you use to keep them from rotating?

 Thanks,

 John

>>>

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[RBW] Re: Your Favorite Adhesive for Riv Cork Grips???

['John Phillips' via RBW Owners Bunch]

Hi Jim,

 Are you using one strip of Newbaum's on the handlebar length-wise 
under the grip, or wrapping a strip of Newbaum's around the bar under the 
grip?

If I could get cork grips to work without glue, that would be fantastic.

Thanks,

John

On Wednesday, July 15, 2020 at 5:58:34 AM UTC-7, Jim S. wrote:
>
> John, I've had success with a strip of newbaum's tape. No glue, no nothing 
> else. If you don't have enough tape, they'll rotate. If you use too much 
> tape,  you can't get the grips on. But you'll figure out an amount that 
> holds the grips in place. Then you can remove the grips later without 
> needing a blow torch.
>
> On Monday, July 13, 2020 at 12:19:26 PM UTC-5 John Phillips wrote:
>
>>   Do you have a favorite adhesive you use to keep them from rotating?
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> John
>>
>

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[RBW] Re: Your Favorite Adhesive for Riv Cork Grips???

['John Phillips' via RBW Owners Bunch]

Thank you everyone, that's a big help!

John

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[RBW] Re: Your Favorite Adhesive for Riv Cork Grips???

['John Phillips' via RBW Owners Bunch]

Hi Brian, 

   Do you mean the clear Gorilla Glue, or the clear Gorilla Super Glue. The 
super glue says it only gives you 10-45 seconds of working time.

Thanks,

John

On Monday, July 13, 2020 at 10:55:07 AM UTC-7, Brian Campbell wrote:
>
> Piece of cloth tape on the handle bar and some Gorilla brand Super Glue. 
> Not the kind the expands as it dries. 
>
> On Monday, July 13, 2020 at 1:19:26 PM UTC-4, John Phillips wrote:
>>
>>   Do you have a favorite adhesive you use to keep them from rotating?
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> John
>>
>

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[RBW] Re: Was the Hunqapillar designed for Albatross bars?

['John Phillips' via RBW Owners Bunch]

  Hi Garth, 

   Thanks, but I believe Rivendell is overwhelmed & understaffed these days 
as they struggle to manage their business in the middle of this pandemic. I 
doubt Grant has time right now conversations about the geometry of a bike 
he stopped making years ago. Maybe I'm wrong, but I'm not going to bother 
him.

   I was just hoping someone here in the group had some insights into the 
Hunqapillar's geometry.

John

On Monday, July 13, 2020 at 1:23:56 PM UTC-7, Garth wrote:
>
>
> It's all good John, we're all here to shoot the breeze about bikes !  
>
> As I recall, and you know how recollections can go  The Bomba was 
> apparently, according to Grant, one of if not the most expensive Riv frames 
> to build. The H frame is a response to make it more appealing costwise for 
> more riders. Yes, the geo changed somewhat, less stack and reach, but the 
> whys and whats of that only Grant knows. If you can catch him at a not so 
> busy time, I'm sure he'd love to talk about it over the phone. This, from 
> someone who loves to talk on the phone for the lively, direct and immediate 
> interactions. 
>
> Garth !
>
>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Was the Hunqapillar designed for Albatross bars?

['John Phillips' via RBW Owners Bunch]

Hi Jay, 

Funny thing, after my last post, I thought to myself, "I'll bet Jay's 
kid gave him that bell."

There's absolutely no better kind of bell, bar none! (pun intended) ;)  
You're a lucky dad!

John

On Monday, July 13, 2020 at 12:16:26 PM UTC-7, Jay Lonner wrote:
>
> The Pass and Stow rack is great - the weak link is the basket and its high 
> center of gravity. I’ve probably carried 15-20# with no issues, and I 
> wouldn’t hesitate to carry more than that in lowrider panniers. 
>
> I’m glad you noticed the Rat Fink bell. My youngest daughter gave it to me 
> as a birthday present when she was 6 or so - it has a lot of sentimental 
> value to me. 
>
> Jay Lonner
> Bellingham, WA
>
> Sent from my Atari 400
>
> On Jul 13, 2020, at 10:58 AM, 'John Phillips' via RBW Owners Bunch <
> rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com > wrote:
>
> 
>   Thanks Jay! Nice set up, you've got a lifetime's worth of hand positions 
> there!
>
> How much can you carry on your Pass & Stow rack without the load taking 
> over the handling?
>
> Thanks,
>
> John
>
> PS: Cool bike bell!
>
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> .
>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Was the Hunqapillar designed for Albatross bars?

['John Phillips' via RBW Owners Bunch]

  Thanks Jay! Nice set up, you've got a lifetime's worth of hand positions 
there!

How much can you carry on your Pass & Stow rack without the load taking 
over the handling?

Thanks,

John

PS: Cool bike bell!

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[RBW] Re: Was the Hunqapillar designed for Albatross bars?

['John Phillips' via RBW Owners Bunch]

Hi Garth,

I apologize, my post must have been as clear as mud. I'm not asking for 
handlebar recommendations. And I certainly don't want to be told what to 
do. I sincerely apologize if my post was offensive. 

Right now I'm super happy with my Albatross bars & 12cm Nitto NP stem. 

I'm just trying to understand, if there is anything to understand, why the 
Hunqapillar. According to Grant, the Bombadil was actually a little bit 
different that the Hunq, having a taller head tube.

Again, my apologies,

John

On Monday, July 13, 2020 at 10:10:08 AM UTC-7, Garth wrote:
>
>  
>
>The Hunqapillar was/is a lower-cost substitute for the Bombadil, which 
> wasn't designed for any particular bar, the initial prototypes used both 
> drop bars and moustache bars. Regardless of the frame and it's relative 
> reach you just can't limit it to any particular bar, not even the designer. 
> There are infinite body types and preferences. Whoever thought in the late 
> 70's you'd ever see those early mountain bikes being ridden with drop bars 
> ? Who imagined a vintage racing/touring frame being used with swept back 
> bars ?   
>  
>So the best bar is whatever works for you. I realize some people want 
> to be told what to do, and for those there's endless people to tell you, 
> each with their pet set of relatives/isms/theories/beliefs. Others prefer, 
> if not must, find out for themselves "what's it all about ?" , what works 
> with a given frame at any given time. Like a "hunq" of clay for the potter. 
> Again,  such is Infinite, pure creativity, and such is Life !
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Was the Hunqapillar designed for Albatross bars?

['John Phillips' via RBW Owners Bunch]

Thanks Jay, I'll take a look.

John

On Monday, July 13, 2020 at 10:15:01 AM UTC-7, Jay Lonner wrote:
>
> This one right here:
>
> https://www.crustbikes.com/products/nitto-ui-31-8-30-degree-3/
>
> Some of the best money I’ve ever spent on a part - just a perfect stem for 
> Jones bars. 
>
> Jay Lonner
> Bellingham, WA
>
> Sent from my Atari 400
>
> On Jul 13, 2020, at 9:57 AM, 'John Phillips' via RBW Owners Bunch <
> rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com > wrote:
>
> 
>   Jay, can I ask which quill stem you went with for your Jones bars? I see 
> a 3 different 31.8 quill stems with the removable face plates on the Crust 
> bikes website: 15 degree & 30 degree Nitto UI stems & the Nitto BJ stem.
>
>   I agree about the upright posture with the Bosco's, every bump in the 
> road seems targeted on my brain, and riding downhill makes me feel like I'm 
> about to fly over my handlebars. Plus the cockpit is just way too darn 
> cramped. I had to search for the longest & lowest stem I could find just to 
> make Albatross bars comfortable, and that's with my butt and saddle all the 
> way back on a lugged seat post.
>
>   I thought remembered trying out the Bullmoose Bosco bars at Riv back in 
> 2013, so I double checked my memory on the Internet Way Back Machine, and 
> Bosco's, Bullmoose Bosco's, Dove bars & and Albatross bars were all in the 
> 2012 Riv catalog when I ordered my Hunqapillar. I wouldn't trade my Hunq 
> for anything, but it seems like somewhat of an outlier in Rivendell design 
> geometries, and was trying to understand why.
>
> Happy but puzzled,
>
> John
>
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> .
>
>

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[RBW] Your Favorite Adhesive for Riv Cork Grips???

['John Phillips' via RBW Owners Bunch]

  Do you have a favorite adhesive you use to keep them from rotating?

Thanks,

John

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Re: [RBW] Re: Reading saddle threads, B17, Berthoud Mente

['John Phillips' via RBW Owners Bunch]

I believe Rivet Cycle Works has a saddle "Try Before You Buy" program, and 
they have a few different saddle widths which might works for you. Before 
you go buying a Berthoud, you might try out Rivet's saddles. Couldn't hurt? 
Well no, we're talking saddles here, so yes it could hurt, but it might 
save you money. ;)

Disclaimer: I've never tried a Rivet, but many people love them.


https://rivetcycleworks.com/

Good luck!

John

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[RBW] Re: Was the Hunqapillar designed for Albatross bars?

['John Phillips' via RBW Owners Bunch]

  Jay, can I ask which quill stem you went with for your Jones bars? I see 
a 3 different 31.8 quill stems with the removable face plates on the Crust 
bikes website: 15 degree & 30 degree Nitto UI stems & the Nitto BJ stem.

  I agree about the upright posture with the Bosco's, every bump in the 
road seems targeted on my brain, and riding downhill makes me feel like I'm 
about to fly over my handlebars. Plus the cockpit is just way too darn 
cramped. I had to search for the longest & lowest stem I could find just to 
make Albatross bars comfortable, and that's with my butt and saddle all the 
way back on a lugged seat post.

  I thought remembered trying out the Bullmoose Bosco bars at Riv back in 
2013, so I double checked my memory on the Internet Way Back Machine, and 
Bosco's, Bullmoose Bosco's, Dove bars & and Albatross bars were all in the 
2012 Riv catalog when I ordered my Hunqapillar. I wouldn't trade my Hunq 
for anything, but it seems like somewhat of an outlier in Rivendell design 
geometries, and was trying to understand why.

Happy but puzzled,

John

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[RBW] Re: Reading saddle threads, B17, Berthoud Mente

['John Phillips' via RBW Owners Bunch]

  You can purchase Gilles Berthoud saddles from Rene Herse Cycles, the 
Berthoud dealer in the U.S. 

  The widest models most like the B17 are the Mente, the Aubisque, and the 
Vars. The Mente is the economy model without the torx head bolts allowing 
you to change leather tops. The Aubisque has steel rails, and the Vars has 
titanium rails, and both allow one to change the leather tops or take apart 
the saddle to replace parts. Rene Herse now carries the Aubisque.

  I ride these saddles because my sit bones are almost 13cm apart, so even 
if I'm stretched out, a wider saddle feels better, and I like my Albatross 
bars lowered to saddle height. I'm definitely not a fan of the very upright 
riding posture, unless I'm stretching & riding hands free. My sit bones 
rest a bit too close to the edge to ride comfortably on the Aspin.

  I would recommend getting the Aubisque, because it gives you the option 
to replace parts, including the leather top, if you ever need to.

  But first, I would recommend measuring your sit bones to make sure how 
wide a saddle you need. The WTB website has a sit bone "calculator", their 
Fit Right System, which I found very easy to use, and accurate (for me at 
least), which uses the width of your wrist. I would give it a whirl before 
you buy:  https://www.wtb.com/pages/fit-right-system

YMMV,

John


On Sunday, July 12, 2020 at 10:11:45 AM UTC-7, Joel Stern wrote:
>
> I’ve ridden Brooks forever, I had decided to try narrower than my B68 as 
> Oi rubs my inner thigh and is annoying. So I started reading on my old 
> trusty B17.  Wow, so many models and opinions, now some discontinued.  Then 
> I stumbled onto a few (many) comments and threads on Berthoud saddles. 
> Looking at their page I see the Mente is closest in size to the B17, the 
> rest are narrower.  But they seem to not be available unless from an eBay 
> sellers who sell at a very high price.  I ride upright, not 90 degrees but 
> closer than not.  I did read some comments on the durability of the leather 
> which may have been caused by putting Proofide  on it.  Just wondering if 
> any members who ride upright have used the saddle and how they like it.   
> Not sure if this helps but my sitbones seem to ne a out 90mm apart, 
> +20=110mm.  
>

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[RBW] Was the Hunqapillar designed for Albatross bars?

['John Phillips' via RBW Owners Bunch]

   I was looking at my 2013 Hunqapillar's geometry on the Bike Insights 
website, and it described the stack & reach as more aggressive than most 
off road touring bikes, and designed for swept back handlebars.

I don't remember Rivendell specifying the Hunqapillar was designed for 
swept back bars in it's emails or flyers or website, although I was steered 
firmly toward Albatross bars when I bought it.

Does anyone know if indeed the Hunqapillar was designed for Albatross bars 
or Bosco bars? The Choco & Billie bars weren't around yet back in 2013.

I looked back through all the old Hunq info I could find, and didn't find 
anything written that specified a particular bar was best the the 
Hunqapillar.

Slightly puzzled,

John

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[RBW] Re: Leather saddle recommendation for upright Sam H?

['John Phillips' via RBW Owners Bunch]

  The Vars eventually molds a bit to your sit bones, but I forgot to keep 
track of how long it took. I found running Compass/ Rene Herse extralight 
tires made the break-in much more comfortable. Someone somewhere also 
mention he loosened the tension bolt 2 turns when breaking in his Berthoud 
saddle. 

And I only use Obenhauf's leather goop on my saddles.

YMMV,

John

On Monday, June 15, 2020 at 7:21:19 AM UTC-7, ☆ Paul ☆ wrote:
>
> Hi John.
>
> How long did it take to break in the Vars? Does it get flexible over time 
> like a B17 does?
>
> Paul
>
> On Friday, June 12, 2020 at 12:10:58 PM UTC-4, John Phillips wrote:
>>
>> Maybe take a look at the Ergon ST Core Prime? I have friends who like 
>> these one their errand/urban bikes.
>>
>> I use a Berthoud Vars, but you already said you found Berthouds too hard.
>>
>> John
>>
>> On Thursday, June 11, 2020 at 9:36:30 AM UTC-7, ☆ Paul ☆ wrote:
>>>
>>> Hello Everyone!
>>>
>>> I'm rebuilding an older double top-tube Sam Hillborne from the frame up, 
>>> and I'm struggling to find a comfortable leather saddle for an upright 
>>> ride. I don't mean "kinda upright", I mean straight back like a dutch bike 
>>> for errands and trips around time — achieving this with a Bosco bar and 
>>> super long Nitto tectonic stem pushed all the way up.
>>>
>>> I'm 175 lbs, 5'11" and have 115mm sitbones and normally ride a Fizik 
>>> Aliante or B17 Narrow on my more aggressive bikes... but putting either of 
>>> those saddles on the upright doesn't work. My sitbones fall off, and I'm 
>>> riding on "soft tissue". Ouch. 
>>>
>>> Other saddles that have not worked:
>>>
>>>- B17/Flyer: Too narrow. Sit bones fall off the edge, and upturned 
>>>nose pokes in a bad place.
>>>- B68: Too wide, chafes a bit, and slippery. 
>>>- Berthoud Mente: Hard as a rock, and possibly a little too wide 
>>>(hard to tell as it is so hard).
>>>- Brooks Cambium C19: Sit area curves down so much on the sides it's 
>>>really no wider than a C15 — or B17.
>>>- Rivet Loveland: Ditto.
>>>
>>> What sort of of works:
>>>
>>>- 170mm wide Brompton "Wide version" foam saddle I pilfered from my 
>>>wife's folding bike. Feels pretty good. But really, really dumb looking 
>>> on 
>>>the Sam. I strongly prefer a leather saddle as the bike is turning out 
>>>quite lovely, and looks do count!
>>>
>>> Any suggestions? 
>>>
>>> PS: If someone has a tried and true way to break in the Berthoud, I 
>>> might do it. The issue is I'll never ride a century on this bike, and I'm 
>>> afraid that breaking the Mente in the normal way will take a year or more.
>>>
>>> Thank you!
>>>
>>> Paul
>>>
>>>
>>>

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[RBW] Re: Brooks vs Berthoud Saddle Setback

['John Phillips' via RBW Owners Bunch]

Hi Nate,

Gotcha. My first thought was that I like my Berthoud saddle, but it 
wouldn't have given me enough room to move back without the S84 seat post.

If you need still more setback with the Berthoud, maybe look into the IRD 
Wayback Seatpost? Comes in diameters 26.8mm, 27.0mm & 27.2mm.


https://www.interlocracing.com/shop/product/ird-seatpost-wayback-2418?search=seatpost

Good luck!

John




On Thursday, June 11, 2020 at 9:53:36 PM UTC-7, Nate in Oakland wrote:
>
> Hi John, 
> I currently have the S83 (26.8) on my Atlantis.  I actually own a 
> beautifully lugged S84, but that lives on my Sam since it is a 27.2 and 
> won’t fit in my Atlantis’ seat tube.  That’s probably why I don’t have this 
> issue with my Sam on drop bars! 
>
> Andrew, 
> Gorgeous!  Can’t wait to get Craig’s saddle! 
>
> Nate

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[RBW] Re: Leather saddle recommendation for upright Sam H?

['John Phillips' via RBW Owners Bunch]

Maybe take a look at the Ergon ST Core Prime? I have friends who like 
these one their errand/urban bikes.

I use a Berthoud Vars, but you already said you found Berthouds too hard.

John

On Thursday, June 11, 2020 at 9:36:30 AM UTC-7, ☆ Paul ☆ wrote:
>
> Hello Everyone!
>
> I'm rebuilding an older double top-tube Sam Hillborne from the frame up, 
> and I'm struggling to find a comfortable leather saddle for an upright 
> ride. I don't mean "kinda upright", I mean straight back like a dutch bike 
> for errands and trips around time — achieving this with a Bosco bar and 
> super long Nitto tectonic stem pushed all the way up.
>
> I'm 175 lbs, 5'11" and have 115mm sitbones and normally ride a Fizik 
> Aliante or B17 Narrow on my more aggressive bikes... but putting either of 
> those saddles on the upright doesn't work. My sitbones fall off, and I'm 
> riding on "soft tissue". Ouch. 
>
> Other saddles that have not worked:
>
>- B17/Flyer: Too narrow. Sit bones fall off the edge, and upturned 
>nose pokes in a bad place.
>- B68: Too wide, chafes a bit, and slippery. 
>- Berthoud Mente: Hard as a rock, and possibly a little too wide (hard 
>to tell as it is so hard).
>- Brooks Cambium C19: Sit area curves down so much on the sides it's 
>really no wider than a C15 — or B17.
>- Rivet Loveland: Ditto.
>
> What sort of of works:
>
>- 170mm wide Brompton "Wide version" foam saddle I pilfered from my 
>wife's folding bike. Feels pretty good. But really, really dumb looking on 
>the Sam. I strongly prefer a leather saddle as the bike is turning out 
>quite lovely, and looks do count!
>
> Any suggestions? 
>
> PS: If someone has a tried and true way to break in the Berthoud, I might 
> do it. The issue is I'll never ride a century on this bike, and I'm afraid 
> that breaking the Mente in the normal way will take a year or more.
>
> Thank you!
>
> Paul
>
>
>

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[RBW] Re: Commuter Tire for Hunq

['John Phillips' via RBW Owners Bunch]

   I have had good luck with Schwalbe Supremes & Almotions, tubed not 
tubeless. I have 55-622 Almotions on my Hunqapillar at the moment, but I 
haven't tried the very latest version of the Almotions with the Addix 
rubber.

John

On Tuesday, June 9, 2020 at 7:06:52 PM UTC-7, Dave Grossman wrote:
>
> I want to replace the 28x2 Big Ben's on my Hunq.  I use it primarily for 
> errands and commuting right now.  I was debating getting a set of Marathon 
> Supremes.  As I haven't purchased "commuter" tires in a while, I'm 
> wondering if there is something better out there.
>
>

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[RBW] Re: Brooks vs Berthoud Saddle Setback

['John Phillips' via RBW Owners Bunch]

  First, which seat post do you have on there now?

  If you already like your saddle, I would suggest trying a seat post with 
more set back, such as the lugged Nitto S84 (4cm set back?). I have a Nitto 
S84 under my Berthoud saddle, set all the way back, on my Hunqapillar, with 
a 12cm Nitto NP stem and Albatross bars set at seat height up front. My 
hands gravitate to the forward sections of the bars, so I really like the 
set back on the S84 seat post. But I'm not one to like sitting too upright 
either.

John

On Tuesday, June 9, 2020 at 9:48:08 AM UTC-7, Nate in Oakland wrote:
>
> Hey all!  I just converted my Atlantis to drops and now I’m finding that I 
> can’t get my trusty B17 far enough back for comfort.  I’ve been lusting 
> after/looking for an excuse to buy a Berthoud saddle for a while, and now 
> I’m wondering if one would fix my setback issue.  Someone out there must 
> have experience with both! 
>
> Btw, I know I could get a whacky looking seat post like the one in the 
> Blahg, but would rather not! 
>
> Thanks, 
> Nate

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[RBW] Re: List Status Thoughts: So... here we are Saturday morning

['John Phillips' via RBW Owners Bunch]

Hi Jim,

I'm in agreement with everything you wrote. Thank you.

I do have a question about limiting posts, specifically your request to 
"Please do not start non-RBW _bicycle_  threads." In the past, some of 
RBW's Blug & Blahg posts incited some very heated exchanges (i.e. helmets, 
zip ties, hard boiled eggs, flipping a bike upside down to change a tire), 
and now we have Grant's Blahg about racism. So my question is: what is and 
is not RBW-related? I'm not being facetious, because it seems RBW is kind 
of a controversial business.

I'm not going to start any discussions, but I was wondering?

Thanks,

John Phillips

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[RBW] Re: Next Level Clementine

['John Phillips' via RBW Owners Bunch]

  Beautiful! I love all the colors.

John


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Re: [RBW] Pedals

['John Phillips' via RBW Owners Bunch]

  +1 for the Catalyst pedals. I had the original Catalyst pedals on 2 
bikes, and replaced them with the new EVO Catalyst pedals. These are the 
most comfortable pedals I've ever used.

John

On Tuesday, June 2, 2020 at 2:09:18 PM UTC-7, Jay Lonner wrote:
>
> I like platform pedals and to date the original Catalyst pedal by Pedaling 
> Innovations is my hands-down favorite. Haven’t tried the Evo. 
>
> https://pedalinginnovations.com/choose-your-pedals
>
> Jay Lonner
> Bellingham, WA
>
> Sent from my Atari 400
>
> On Jun 2, 2020, at 1:53 PM, Patrick Moore > 
> wrote:
>
> All SPDs at this point, though I've tried too many kinds to count. XTs
> or XTRs on the commuter and dirt road bike, Dura Ace SPDs on the
> gofast.
>
> I actually like clips 'n' straps 'n' slotted cleats, particularly with
> the wonderfully well made MKS RX-1 pedals and their anniversary UBS
> Lite (MKS has some very weird nomenclature; I had a pair of cheap but
> very nice "Esprit" pedals) but since I ride even the gofast on the
> occasional dirt road, the SPDs work better. I found that entry and
> exit was considerably easier with slotted cleats and sem-tight straps
> than with KEOs.
>
> I find I need retention since I pull my foot off the pedal (or out of
> the shoe back when I wore slip-ons and clips / straps).
>
> I recall the early days of clipless pedals, when all sorts of new
> designs were being tried -- Grafton, Sampson are 2 I used; that weird
> one that consisted of a spindle with bearings and roller over the
> spindle, and "claw" cleats to grip the roller. Lightest pedal on
> market, though.
>
> Patrick Moore, who is also on a second pair of very retro, 1980s
> Shimano SPD shoes (thanks again to the donor!) -- most comfortable
> I've worn.
>
> On Tue, Jun 2, 2020 at 11:46 AM Doug Hansford  > wrote:
>
>
> I saw an interesting article about innovative pedal design and it got me 
> to thinking. Why do I use the pedals that I use? I like platform pedals 
> after using clipless for many years for both road riding and single track. 
> My current are Shimano steel. Which pedals do you use and why?  Link to the 
> article below:
>
>
> https://newatlas.com/bicycles/bike-pedals-unique/
>
>
> Doug Hansford
>
>
> --
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> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
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> .
>
>
>
>
> -- 
>
> ---
> Patrick Moore
> Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum
>
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> .
>
>

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[RBW] Re: Locking Up your Riv

['John Phillips' via RBW Owners Bunch]

  +1 for Hexlox to secure components and racks.

   Two Abus Granite-X 540 D-locks to secure my bike in town. I have a Nitto 
32R or R14 rack on the back and secure my Abus D-locks with a Voile strap 
to the rack whenever I go out. Because even if I'm just out for a ride & 
fresh air, I'm always distracted by a farmers' market or a bakery or 
something.

John

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