Re: [RBW] Re: Knee trouble
On Wed, 2012-04-11 at 22:14 -0700, Chris wrote: That crank length thread is a bit heated over at i-bob. I've also been wondering if I should get a shorter crank because of left knee pain, which tends to start and gets progressively worse at the 20th mile mark. I think if you're getting knee pain at mile 20 there's something far more serious wrong than incorrect crank length. I'd look into that, if I were you. However, one thing all the old-time rules seem to agree on is that if you have a history of knee trouble you should stay away from long cranks. Makes sense, in that longer cranks make your knee bend more. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
Re: [RBW] Re: Knee trouble
That crank length thread is a bit heated over at i-bob. I've also been wondering if I should get a shorter crank because of left knee pain, which tends to start and gets progressively worse at the 20th mile mark. There are quite a few crank length calculators out there, all giving me results ranging from 165mm to 177.5mm. I currently ride a Sam with 175mm Sugino triple crank (82.5 PBH). On Tuesday, April 10, 2012 10:12:49 PM UTC-4, Leslie wrote: Changed my mind that thread over on i-bob seems to have gotten a bit heated... My Ram has a 172.5 crank (Dura Ace triple, 53/39/30 rings, with a 11-32 9sp cassette), as a baseline. No problems... I usually stay on my 53 ring when cruising, drop to the 39 for climbs (try to reserve the 30 for steeper climbs). I'd gotten a Sugino XD2 triple (48/36/24 w/ a 11-34 9sp), but in 175, for the Bomba. Different bike, different tires, different feel, but that's okay. Slower cadence, not a problem, mostly.But, occasionally, on shallow climbs where I'm not shifting off of the 48, but instead am mashing through it, I feel a bit of a twinge in my knee. Quit mashing, lighten up, twinge ceases. The crank length may not have one iota to do with it, but, I've wondered, if I'd be better off switching down to the same length crank. Or, even on down to 170? (32 inseam, 87.6 PBH, FWIW). Thoughts? -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msg/rbw-owners-bunch/-/DDrmnF0zh2gJ. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
[RBW] Re: Knee trouble
Yup, I'm up here in Sonoma County Getting Mellow, too Beth. I've got Osteoarthritis in my right knee and to a lesser degree in the left, but I used to enjoy fairly good knee health. There would be the occasional need for icing, but I used to joke that a little bit of swelling would keep things in place. My riding ranged from 200 to 300 miles a week in 40-50 mile bites. One or two of those rides were fixed gear. I never could hack the offroad single speed thing although the few times I did ride fixed offroad were a blast. My mom has had both her knees replaced and I have spent 25+ years working on the floor. If anything my bike riding helped my knees - even the fixed stuff - I never used an outrageously big gear. My riding now consists of getting around town, and a close-to-daily recreation/therapeutic ride of about 1.5-2 hours on flat ground. Though initially it was on my singlespeed, I've now got a Sturmey Archer B2C kickback hub that seems just right for me. 48/68 gear inches provides enough low to get me moving, and enough high to make it feel exciting. I think once I sell off a good portion of my bikes and gear I'll be looking forward to getting a Riv Simpleone, or whatever the present generation is, provided they build some my size. Phil B On Apr 9, 8:00 pm, Beth H periwinkle...@yahoo.com wrote: On Apr 9, 11:29 am, PATRICK MOORE bertin...@gmail.com wrote: I'm curious to hear from oldsters (ie, older than young-uns like myself at a just-turned-57) who ride fixed or ss: how's y'all's knees? -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
Re: [RBW] Re: Knee trouble
Interesting conversation. I truly expect that one reason my knees are still fine is that I ride shorter distances at a time and cumulatively than many of the rest of you. My knees were fine on todays minimally extended 40 miler. On Tue, Apr 10, 2012 at 12:35 PM, Phil Bickford phi...@sonic.net wrote: Yup, I'm up here in Sonoma County Getting Mellow, too Beth. I've got Osteoarthritis in my right knee and to a lesser degree in the left, but I used to enjoy fairly good knee health. There would be the occasional need for icing, but I used to joke that a little bit of swelling would keep things in place. My riding ranged from 200 to 300 miles a week in 40-50 mile bites. One or two of those rides were fixed gear. I never could hack the offroad single speed thing although the few times I did ride fixed offroad were a blast. My mom has had both her knees replaced and I have spent 25+ years working on the floor. If anything my bike riding helped my knees - even the fixed stuff - I never used an outrageously big gear. My riding now consists of getting around town, and a close-to-daily recreation/therapeutic ride of about 1.5-2 hours on flat ground. Though initially it was on my singlespeed, I've now got a Sturmey Archer B2C kickback hub that seems just right for me. 48/68 gear inches provides enough low to get me moving, and enough high to make it feel exciting. I think once I sell off a good portion of my bikes and gear I'll be looking forward to getting a Riv Simpleone, or whatever the present generation is, provided they build some my size. Phil B On Apr 9, 8:00 pm, Beth H periwinkle...@yahoo.com wrote: On Apr 9, 11:29 am, PATRICK MOORE bertin...@gmail.com wrote: I'm curious to hear from oldsters (ie, older than young-uns like myself at a just-turned-57) who ride fixed or ss: how's y'all's knees? -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en. -- - Patrick Moore, Albuquerque, NM For professional resumes, contact Patrick Moore, ACRW http://resumespecialties.com/index.html - A billion stars go spinning through the night Blazing high above your head; But in you is the Presence that will be When all the stars are dead. Ranier Maria Rilke, Buddha in Glory -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
Re: [RBW] Re: Knee trouble
Twentysome years ago, signed up for the Marine infantry, in the reserves a year before starting into college at the same time. The attitude of the Corps for infantry reserves is, we only have you for a few days a month, so we're gonna flog ya hard to keep you up-to-snuff. Lots of 20-mile humps w/ not-so-light rucks and gear, over not-so-smooth terrain. Fivish years later, while on my college's fencing team, I was having some knee problems, and my family practitioner happened to have been an orthopedic surgeon in the Army during Vietnam. Finally he just out and said, if I didn't get out of the Marines, I'd be arthritic by the time I was 30. I'd had a shift in direction, no longer planning to be an officer anymore, became a geologist (happy move). So, I finished out my six and parted ways w/ the Corps, on to grad school. Bought me better than a decade... My knees would creak and pop, but nothing startling. Until this past year, as I've turned 40, my right knee now has gotten 'crunchy'. Not through 'normal' range of movement, walking or sitting, but, if I squat down to lift something off of the ground using my legs (keeping my back straight!), my knee is very audible, like you're wadding up cellophane. A couple of months ago, my physician took a set of x-rays to have a baseline on-hand, to go forward with... + + + And, this kinda ties back to the crank discussion, so I'm torn about posting this question here, or in the crank-thread... Think I'll put it over there -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msg/rbw-owners-bunch/-/V_1y598mgCkJ. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
Re: [RBW] Re: Knee trouble
Changed my mind that thread over on i-bob seems to have gotten a bit heated... My Ram has a 172.5 crank (Dura Ace triple, 53/39/30 rings, with a 11-32 9sp cassette), as a baseline. No problems... I usually stay on my 53 ring when cruising, drop to the 39 for climbs (try to reserve the 30 for steeper climbs). I'd gotten a Sugino XD2 triple (48/36/24 w/ a 11-34 9sp), but in 175, for the Bomba. Different bike, different tires, different feel, but that's okay. Slower cadence, not a problem, mostly.But, occasionally, on shallow climbs where I'm not shifting off of the 48, but instead am mashing through it, I feel a bit of a twinge in my knee. Quit mashing, lighten up, twinge ceases. The crank length may not have one iota to do with it, but, I've wondered, if I'd be better off switching down to the same length crank. Or, even on down to 170? (32 inseam, 87.6 PBH, FWIW). Thoughts? -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msg/rbw-owners-bunch/-/tafwj0aZH8QJ. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
[RBW] Re: Knee trouble
I would second the recommendation about PT. Take advantage of every PT session you can get and be aggressive about tracking down the most competent therapist (and no I am not one) you can find in your area. Also, be patient, this recovery is going to take some time, but can be nearly complete. Michael On Sunday, April 8, 2012 10:07:56 PM UTC-4, soapscum wrote: Hi, I'm an infrequent poster, but longtime reader and I'm hoping I'm not the first person to go through this. Riv content: I ride a Hillborne. I bought it new from Riv a couple years ago and it's proven itself to be the best go-everywhere do-everything all-weather bike ever (for me). I have a lifetime passion for riding bikes of all kinds, and I can't imagine a life without them. No here's the problem: in a nutshell, my knee is shot and I'm likely faced with at least a partial knee replacement. I'm only 45 so I'll likely outlive the thing, so I've got that going for me, too. Has anyone on the list been through this, and if so how has it impacted your riding? Any insight is most welcome, and if it's not appropriate for the list, I'll happily take it offline. Thanks a bunch. Cheers, Shawn Mulanix Seattle, WA -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msg/rbw-owners-bunch/-/kP2FDFDepiAJ. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
[RBW] Re: Knee trouble
I'm happy to consider any discussion of knees as appropriate for this group; I hope others do, too. I like to think of Riv Folk as life- long bikers with bikes that will last as long as our bodies do. At 53, I have one knee that I describe as having gravel under the hood. Knowing others' journeys with knees and Rivendells is really helpful. -Liesl -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
Re: [RBW] Re: Knee trouble
I'm curious to hear from oldsters (ie, older than young-uns like myself at a just-turned-57) who ride fixed or ss: how's y'all's knees? I frequently get minor twinges in the left knee, for a day or two afterward, after doing a lot of climbing (tho' I have been practicing extending the periods during which I can comfortable stand while climbing -- half a mile is easy, a mile and even more is doable when I'm in shape -- the key is to go sloowly) but then, again, I felt the same twinges back when I was 17-18 and too ignorant even to know about low gears even on the steepest, longest hills. I expect that, if I did long rides with a lot of hilliness, my knees would be in jeopardy, but so far they seem safe. That's why I'd like to hear from older folk who ride fixed -- or ss. (Tomorrows Declining with Age topic: How to learn not to feel offended when young, feisty 40-something bucks pass you.) On Mon, Apr 9, 2012 at 12:21 PM, Liesl li...@smm.org wrote: I'm happy to consider any discussion of knees as appropriate for this group; I hope others do, too. I like to think of Riv Folk as life- long bikers with bikes that will last as long as our bodies do. At 53, I have one knee that I describe as having gravel under the hood. Knowing others' journeys with knees and Rivendells is really helpful. -Liesl -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en. -- - Patrick Moore, Albuquerque, NM For professional resumes, contact Patrick Moore, ACRW http://resumespecialties.com/index.html - A billion stars go spinning through the night Blazing high above your head; But in you is the Presence that will be When all the stars are dead. Ranier Maria Rilke, Buddha in Glory -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
[RBW] Re: Knee trouble
I am with Liesl - knee care and riv riding seem like they can go hand-in-hand. I have a torn MCL which causes my knee to buckle occasionally, and a few days of instability/some pain follow. Riding my riv has certainly helped strengthen the rest of my leg muscles, which is the prescription for a torn MCL. I have often wondered about getting a over-the-counter brace though, as it seems like that might help. On Monday, April 9, 2012 2:21:36 PM UTC-4, Liesl wrote: I'm happy to consider any discussion of knees as appropriate for this group; I hope others do, too. I like to think of Riv Folk as life- long bikers with bikes that will last as long as our bodies do. At 53, I have one knee that I describe as having gravel under the hood. Knowing others' journeys with knees and Rivendells is really helpful. -Liesl -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msg/rbw-owners-bunch/-/nOe_FGLsHAkJ. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
Re: [RBW] Re: Knee trouble
I suffer with knees, too, sometimes. Good to know that knee replacements are working out generally; my father has an early one that is still working well. He rides a stationary bike these days, but rocks it at 85. His mother also had knee problems (ever since she jumped off the Great Wall of China in the 1920's, onto the back of a horse ala Tom Mix, according to her). I've lost much cartilage, and had both knees scoped, one done twice, but good use seems to polish the bone. Nothing better than cycling to keep my knees happy. I also do balance and stability weight workouts; lunges with hand weights, a wobble board. I've often thought that bracing isn't as good an idea as strengthening, if possible. I've found that some glucosamine/condroitin, etc. supplements don't work, some do. The one that is working for me is Cosamin DS, which I get at Costco. Not cheap, but cheaper than $30K-$40K for a knee replacement. YMMV! On Mon, Apr 9, 2012 at 11:36 AM, Zack zack...@gmail.com wrote: I am with Liesl - knee care and riv riding seem like they can go hand-in-hand. I have a torn MCL which causes my knee to buckle occasionally, and a few days of instability/some pain follow. Riding my riv has certainly helped strengthen the rest of my leg muscles, which is the prescription for a torn MCL. I have often wondered about getting a over-the-counter brace though, as it seems like that might help. On Monday, April 9, 2012 2:21:36 PM UTC-4, Liesl wrote: I'm happy to consider any discussion of knees as appropriate for this group; I hope others do, too. I like to think of Riv Folk as life- long bikers with bikes that will last as long as our bodies do. At 53, I have one knee that I describe as having gravel under the hood. Knowing others' journeys with knees and Rivendells is really helpful. -Liesl -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msg/rbw-owners-bunch/-/nOe_FGLsHAkJ. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en. -- Bill Gibson Tempe, Arizona, USA -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
[RBW] Re: Knee trouble
Shawn, It just so happens that I had both knees replaced in January of 2010. I was 49 at the time and so I fully expect to have them replaced one more time before the end of my life. With that being said, the surgery has not hampered my cycling at all. In fact, I trained for and rode the Southern Tier route from San Diego to Florida last summer, just 18 months post-surgery and had no issues with my knees at all. Make sure you do your PT, as has been said. My doctor told me that they really like to hear that knee patients ride, because they're not out there pounding their knees. Oh, one thing I've changed is that I try to use slightly lower gears, so as to spin more than mash the pedals, but it has not been a drastic alteration by any means. Best of luck to you, Shawn! -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
[RBW] Re: Knee trouble
Oh, I forgot to add, in my earlier reply, I don't push quite as big of a gear as I used to, but nothing, not mountains or sprints, is a problem. On Apr 8, 9:07 pm, soapscum smula...@gmail.com wrote: Hi, I'm an infrequent poster, but longtime reader and I'm hoping I'm not the first person to go through this. Riv content: I ride a Hillborne. I bought it new from Riv a couple years ago and it's proven itself to be the best go-everywhere do-everything all-weather bike ever (for me). I have a lifetime passion for riding bikes of all kinds, and I can't imagine a life without them. No here's the problem: in a nutshell, my knee is shot and I'm likely faced with at least a partial knee replacement. I'm only 45 so I'll likely outlive the thing, so I've got that going for me, too. Has anyone on the list been through this, and if so how has it impacted your riding? Any insight is most welcome, and if it's not appropriate for the list, I'll happily take it offline. Thanks a bunch. Cheers, Shawn Mulanix Seattle, WA -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
[RBW] Re: Knee trouble
Thanks, everybody. It's reassuring to learn that it's not the end of the world, or even the end of cycling. I can still ride a bit, and have been using my Hillborne as my wheelchair...now if I could only get the crutches into my panniers! On Apr 9, 9:46 am, Tim tki...@comcast.net wrote: Shawn, It just so happens that I had both knees replaced in January of 2010. I was 49 at the time and so I fully expect to have them replaced one more time before the end of my life. With that being said, the surgery has not hampered my cycling at all. In fact, I trained for and rode the Southern Tier route from San Diego to Florida last summer, just 18 months post-surgery and had no issues with my knees at all. Make sure you do your PT, as has been said. My doctor told me that they really like to hear that knee patients ride, because they're not out there pounding their knees. Oh, one thing I've changed is that I try to use slightly lower gears, so as to spin more than mash the pedals, but it has not been a drastic alteration by any means. Best of luck to you, Shawn! -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
[RBW] Re: Knee trouble
On Apr 9, 11:29 am, PATRICK MOORE bertin...@gmail.com wrote: I'm curious to hear from oldsters (ie, older than young-uns like myself at a just-turned-57) who ride fixed or ss: how's y'all's knees? I've had recurring knee twinges for years, since a high school track injury ended my running days and sent me onto the bike. I've noticed it a lot more in the last few years -- basically since I began racing singlespeed -- that my knees, espcially my right knee, will twinge more often. I noticed it last year when I experimented with working out/training to race. While I did lose weight working out in a gym, and my muscles got stronger, my joints did not. By the end of short-track season I was ready for the several weeks away from the singlespeed bike before cyclocross. By mid-November, the combination of singlespeed racing, thick mud and dropping temperatures forced me to skip the last four local races of the season because my knees couldn't handle it. A cut in hours at work meant the end of the gym membership this winter/ spring. When I pulled out the singlespeed bike to just ride around the neighborhood, I slapped on a bigger cog in the rear and it still didn't help. I've ridden the SS bike three times since New Year's, and I will most likely sell it this spring. I can't afford knee replacement surgery, so instead I'm listening to my body and taking preventative steps to insure I'll have these knees for as long as I can. If that means hanging up racing (and specifically singlespeed racing/riding), so be it. I had a good run and I'm ready to Get Mellow. Beth in PDX, where it's only hilly part of the time. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
