Re: [RBW] Re: Jones and Hunq

[Geeter]

Thanks Ed.  I agree that the Hunq is a comfy ride for sure.  I love it.

  My pic is a few replies back from here.  Build is:

XT 1x11
165mm XT cranks
XT hydros with 203/180 rotors
Thomson setback
Loop bars
Selle Anatomica Titanico X
Velocity Dually with Hope Fatsno Evo 4 front and XT rear
Schwalbe Big One 29x2.35

I am debating building a 650b plus wheelset as the Jones will clear a 
27.5x3.  Maybe that one for knobbies


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Re: [RBW] Re: Jones and Hunq

[Daniel Jackson]

Love this machine:

https://www.instagram.com/p/BTMjL1oA-qM/

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Re: [RBW] Re: Jones and Hunq

[Ed Fausto]

Hi Geeter,
Sorry to hear that you have to go thru surgery because of your disc
issues.  I just got lucky that I only required rest, therapy and visits to
a chiropractor to help me recover.  After my slip disc recovery, I actually
felt better riding my Hunqapillar versus walking.  There is something in
the riding position that helps alleviate the pain.
Can you share a picture and the built of your Jones?

On Tue, May 23, 2017 at 10:02 AM, Geeter  wrote:

> Ed, I bought a Hunq and now built the Jones because of my disc issues.  I
> recently had a microdiscectomy/laminectomy on L5/S1 and I really want to
> continue riding all day like I used to.   I am considering selling my road
> and cross bikes for good because I don't know when or if I will want to be
> back on drops.  The geo of the two bikes really has me comfortable and I am
> hoping that now after surgery I will be back in the saddle, pun intended.
>
>
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Re: [RBW] Re: Jones and Hunq

[Geeter]

Ed, I bought a Hunq and now built the Jones because of my disc issues.  I 
recently had a microdiscectomy/laminectomy on L5/S1 and I really want to 
continue riding all day like I used to.   I am considering selling my road 
and cross bikes for good because I don't know when or if I will want to be 
back on drops.  The geo of the two bikes really has me comfortable and I am 
hoping that now after surgery I will be back in the saddle, pun intended.


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Re: [RBW] Re: Jones and Hunq

[Jay Connolly]

I have not ridden the Hunq, but it was my Jones Plus that set me on the path to 
Rivendell. In 2015, I rode most of the Great Divide route on a Salsa Fargo. It 
was okay, but even the XL frame was not a great fit for me, given the long days 
in the saddle. Last year I built up a Jones Plus and absolutely love it. The 
more upright riding position and the 3" tires are perfect for touring on rough 
roads. We had planned to go back to the Divide again this summer, but family 
influences have changes our plans, and we now intend to do a road ride through 
the Yukon and parts of Alaska this summer, so I went looking for a proper 
touring bike and wound up with a 62cm Joe Appaloosa, which puts me in a 
position similar to the Jones Plus. The Jones bar and the high-stack front end 
are really the keys to the design. With the right bar and a bit of fidgeting, 
you can replicate the position on a lot of bikes.

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Re: [RBW] Re: Jones and Hunq

[Ed Fausto]

Thanks Philip! :-)
This is coming from a Riv rider transitioning from
51 Atlantis (Albatross, used in my 2016 TransAm) ---> 55 Cheviot
(Albatross, but too big) ---> 50 Cheviot (Albatross, good fit) ---> 48
Hunqapillar (ahearne bars, perfect fit) :-)

On Sat, May 20, 2017 at 8:04 AM, Philip Kim  wrote:

> Glad to hear you are enjoying it Ed! The ahearne bars are great for that
> bike!
>
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Re: [RBW] Re: Jones and Hunq

[Philip Kim]

Glad to hear you are enjoying it Ed! The ahearne bars are great for that bike!

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Re: [RBW] Re: Jones and Hunq

[Ed Fausto]

Hello Keith,
Thank you for taking time for giving your experience and recommendation on
the spaceframe.  The stable ride of the plus and vertical compliance
without the use of suspension made me seriously consider the Jones frame.
I recently bought my 48 Hunqapillar from Philip for my do it all mountain
bike for my planned Great Divide next year.  The fit and comfort (A-Hearn
handlebar) makes me smile every time I take the Hunq out for a ride.
Although Hunqapillar owners here reported that it is more than capable of
taking the Great Divide, I would like to try the Jones Spaceframe plus for
the reported comfort provided by the bigger tires (3 inch) and frames's
vertical compliance.  The added comfort will help reduce risk to my lower
back where I had a history of slip disc.
Ed

On Sat, May 20, 2017 at 1:17 AM, iamkeith  wrote:

> Ed,  forgive me for interjecting and for not directly answering your
> question, but I wanted to say that if Jeff and you think that the 23"
> spaceframe will fit, you are extremely lucky and should consider it.
>
> I have the regular spaceframe in the equivalent of the next size up, and
> could not imagine giving it up.  I understand that its looks might not be
> to everyone's taste (though I personally think it is iconically beautiful),
> it is a great design strictly from a functional standpoint.  Even though (
> I believe) the Plus does not have the ovalizing features to add vertical
> compliance at the rear of the frame (because the tires are capable enough
> on their own), that is sort of a secondary benefit to the increased
> standover clearance anyway.  I am so much more confident, am willing to
> attempt, and able to ride so many more conditions because of that
> clearance.   I've said it before but, if Jeff ever offers a 25" Plus in a
> spaceframe configuration, I will likely sell most of the bikes I own to get
> one.  Except my Rivs, of course.
>
> On Friday, May 19, 2017 at 4:17:00 AM UTC-6, ed wrote:
>>
>> Hi Philip,
>> I would appreciate if you could provide feedback on how the 24" Jones
>> Plus fits you.
>> I sent them an email on their sizing recommendation based on my 5' 5"
>> height and 79cm pbh and they suggested a Jones 23" Spaceframe Plus 148 TA.
>>
>>
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Re: [RBW] Re: Jones and Hunq

[iamkeith]

Ed,  forgive me for interjecting and for not directly answering your 
question, but I wanted to say that if Jeff and you think that the 23" 
spaceframe will fit, you are extremely lucky and should consider it.  

I have the regular spaceframe in the equivalent of the next size up, and 
could not imagine giving it up.  I understand that its looks might not be 
to everyone's taste (though I personally think it is iconically beautiful), 
it is a great design strictly from a functional standpoint.  Even though ( 
I believe) the Plus does not have the ovalizing features to add vertical 
compliance at the rear of the frame (because the tires are capable enough 
on their own), that is sort of a secondary benefit to the increased 
standover clearance anyway.  I am so much more confident, am willing to 
attempt, and able to ride so many more conditions because of that 
clearance.   I've said it before but, if Jeff ever offers a 25" Plus in a 
spaceframe configuration, I will likely sell most of the bikes I own to get 
one.  Except my Rivs, of course.

On Friday, May 19, 2017 at 4:17:00 AM UTC-6, ed wrote:
>
> Hi Philip,
> I would appreciate if you could provide feedback on how the 24" Jones Plus 
> fits you.
> I sent them an email on their sizing recommendation based on my 5' 5" 
> height and 79cm pbh and they suggested a Jones 23" Spaceframe Plus 148 TA.
>
>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Jones and Hunq

[Philip Kim]

Nice! Yes the ahearne bars are awesome. I've been messaging dstein back and 
forth as we're the same size. I think a 24" will fit but not sure I would buy 
one yet

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Re: [RBW] Re: Jones and Hunq

[Ed Fausto]

Hi Philip,
I would appreciate if you could provide feedback on how the 24" Jones Plus
fits you.
I sent them an email on their sizing recommendation based on my 5' 5"
height and 79cm pbh and they suggested a Jones 23" Spaceframe Plus 148 TA.

PS
I finished building up your 48 Hunqapillar and used Ahearne+Map handlebar
and the fit is great :-)

On Fri, May 19, 2017 at 1:51 AM, Tony DeFilippo  wrote:

> Philip we need to catch up for coffee and get you on my 24" Jones Plus
> sometime soon.  I'm around next week, hit me up off list if you want to
> give it a try.
>
> David are you using the 2.35" G-Ones on your Jones Plus?  I have the
> Schwable 'Big Ones' 2.35" slicks on mine right now and I'm not a fan.
> Compared to the 3" Chronicles I find the steering to be nervous/squirmy
> which is so different than the caddilac smooth handling it had w/ the
> chronicles.  I'm using them with tubes on the big WTB Scraper i45's though
> and wondering if the rim is just to wide for the smaller tires.
>
> On Thu, May 18, 2017 at 1:33 PM, Philip Kim  wrote:
>
>> ahh great info thanks! emailed jones and they said it's fine, but they
>> pointed me towards the spaceframe if i had any concerns. glad the 24" plus
>> fits well. might be a good 27+ candidatE?
>>
>>
>> On Thursday, May 18, 2017 at 1:02:57 PM UTC-4, dstein wrote:
>>>
>>> I have a 48cm hunq and a 24" jones plus. The hunq was my 'original' mtn
>>> bike, now the jones isfits fine. it's so well designed that it doesn't
>>> feel that big when you're in it at all, but if you look at it it is huge,
>>> especially compared to my small hunq with 26" wheels. the only times it
>>> feels 'too big' are on a few super narrow single track trails with a steep
>>> cliff I ride sometime, a combination of the wide ass handlebars and 3"
>>> tires  makes me nervous, and sent me down the hillside once or twice. but
>>> for the other 99% of the riding I do (which is a lot of other technical
>>> singletrack) it is fantastic and fits just right.
>>>
>>> On Thursday, May 18, 2017 at 9:10:30 AM UTC-7, Philip Kim wrote:

 any smaller riders on a jones?

 having rode a 48cm Hunq, curious how the jones fits, as well as if the
 29+ wheels are too big.

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Re: [RBW] Re: Jones and Hunq

[Eric Daume]

Tubed for me, though I can't see how it would affect this, if I was running
the same pressure.

On Thu, May 18, 2017 at 2:25 PM, Tony DeFilippo  wrote:

> It's really interesting how different the experiences are with similar
> equipment... Eric I'm definitely getting what you describe.  Did you go
> tubeless or tubed?
>
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Re: [RBW] Re: Jones and Hunq

[Tony DeFilippo]

It's really interesting how different the experiences are with similar
equipment... Eric I'm definitely getting what you describe.  Did you go
tubeless or tubed?

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Re: [RBW] Re: Jones and Hunq

[Eric Daume]

I had the exact same experience with 2.35" Big Ones on a 45mm Scraper rim.
Very jerky, digital steering. Put 3" knobbies back on and all was well.

Eric

On Thursday, May 18, 2017, Tony DeFilippo  wrote:

> Philip we need to catch up for coffee and get you on my 24" Jones Plus
> sometime soon.  I'm around next week, hit me up off list if you want to
> give it a try.
>
> David are you using the 2.35" G-Ones on your Jones Plus?  I have the
> Schwable 'Big Ones' 2.35" slicks on mine right now and I'm not a fan.
> Compared to the 3" Chronicles I find the steering to be nervous/squirmy
> which is so different than the caddilac smooth handling it had w/ the
> chronicles.  I'm using them with tubes on the big WTB Scraper i45's though
> and wondering if the rim is just to wide for the smaller tires.
>
> On Thu, May 18, 2017 at 1:33 PM, Philip Kim  > wrote:
>
>> ahh great info thanks! emailed jones and they said it's fine, but they
>> pointed me towards the spaceframe if i had any concerns. glad the 24" plus
>> fits well. might be a good 27+ candidatE?
>>
>>
>> On Thursday, May 18, 2017 at 1:02:57 PM UTC-4, dstein wrote:
>>>
>>> I have a 48cm hunq and a 24" jones plus. The hunq was my 'original' mtn
>>> bike, now the jones isfits fine. it's so well designed that it doesn't
>>> feel that big when you're in it at all, but if you look at it it is huge,
>>> especially compared to my small hunq with 26" wheels. the only times it
>>> feels 'too big' are on a few super narrow single track trails with a steep
>>> cliff I ride sometime, a combination of the wide ass handlebars and 3"
>>> tires  makes me nervous, and sent me down the hillside once or twice. but
>>> for the other 99% of the riding I do (which is a lot of other technical
>>> singletrack) it is fantastic and fits just right.
>>>
>>> On Thursday, May 18, 2017 at 9:10:30 AM UTC-7, Philip Kim wrote:

 any smaller riders on a jones?

 having rode a 48cm Hunq, curious how the jones fits, as well as if the
 29+ wheels are too big.

>>> --
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Re: [RBW] Re: Jones and Hunq

[David Stein]

I am using the 2.35” G-Ones on RaceFace ARC 45’s. I run them tubeless. Honestly 
I felt that the 3” maxis chronicles I have on there are too squirmy and handled 
poorly on pavement (particularly downhill) but mostly because they’re run at 
such a low pressure (10 psi). On this second wheelset w/ the G-One’s I keep 
them pumped up to a normal-ish PSI to handle road and mixed terrain and I love 
it, not really squirmy at all. 

I was a little nervous as I ran some big apples on another bike once and 
thought those were super squirrely. Smaller rim though.


> On May 18, 2017, at 10:51 AM, Tony DeFilippo  wrote:
> 
> Philip we need to catch up for coffee and get you on my 24" Jones Plus 
> sometime soon.  I'm around next week, hit me up off list if you want to give 
> it a try.
> 
> David are you using the 2.35" G-Ones on your Jones Plus?  I have the Schwable 
> 'Big Ones' 2.35" slicks on mine right now and I'm not a fan.  Compared to the 
> 3" Chronicles I find the steering to be nervous/squirmy which is so different 
> than the caddilac smooth handling it had w/ the chronicles.  I'm using them 
> with tubes on the big WTB Scraper i45's though and wondering if the rim is 
> just to wide for the smaller tires.
> 
> On Thu, May 18, 2017 at 1:33 PM, Philip Kim  > wrote:
> ahh great info thanks! emailed jones and they said it's fine, but they 
> pointed me towards the spaceframe if i had any concerns. glad the 24" plus 
> fits well. might be a good 27+ candidatE?
> 
> 
> On Thursday, May 18, 2017 at 1:02:57 PM UTC-4, dstein wrote:
> I have a 48cm hunq and a 24" jones plus. The hunq was my 'original' mtn bike, 
> now the jones isfits fine. it's so well designed that it doesn't feel 
> that big when you're in it at all, but if you look at it it is huge, 
> especially compared to my small hunq with 26" wheels. the only times it feels 
> 'too big' are on a few super narrow single track trails with a steep cliff I 
> ride sometime, a combination of the wide ass handlebars and 3" tires  makes 
> me nervous, and sent me down the hillside once or twice. but for the other 
> 99% of the riding I do (which is a lot of other technical singletrack) it is 
> fantastic and fits just right.
> 
> On Thursday, May 18, 2017 at 9:10:30 AM UTC-7, Philip Kim wrote:
> any smaller riders on a jones?
> 
> having rode a 48cm Hunq, curious how the jones fits, as well as if the 29+ 
> wheels are too big.
> 
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Re: [RBW] Re: Jones and Hunq

[Tony DeFilippo]

Philip we need to catch up for coffee and get you on my 24" Jones Plus
sometime soon.  I'm around next week, hit me up off list if you want to
give it a try.

David are you using the 2.35" G-Ones on your Jones Plus?  I have the
Schwable 'Big Ones' 2.35" slicks on mine right now and I'm not a fan.
Compared to the 3" Chronicles I find the steering to be nervous/squirmy
which is so different than the caddilac smooth handling it had w/ the
chronicles.  I'm using them with tubes on the big WTB Scraper i45's though
and wondering if the rim is just to wide for the smaller tires.

On Thu, May 18, 2017 at 1:33 PM, Philip Kim  wrote:

> ahh great info thanks! emailed jones and they said it's fine, but they
> pointed me towards the spaceframe if i had any concerns. glad the 24" plus
> fits well. might be a good 27+ candidatE?
>
>
> On Thursday, May 18, 2017 at 1:02:57 PM UTC-4, dstein wrote:
>>
>> I have a 48cm hunq and a 24" jones plus. The hunq was my 'original' mtn
>> bike, now the jones isfits fine. it's so well designed that it doesn't
>> feel that big when you're in it at all, but if you look at it it is huge,
>> especially compared to my small hunq with 26" wheels. the only times it
>> feels 'too big' are on a few super narrow single track trails with a steep
>> cliff I ride sometime, a combination of the wide ass handlebars and 3"
>> tires  makes me nervous, and sent me down the hillside once or twice. but
>> for the other 99% of the riding I do (which is a lot of other technical
>> singletrack) it is fantastic and fits just right.
>>
>> On Thursday, May 18, 2017 at 9:10:30 AM UTC-7, Philip Kim wrote:
>>>
>>> any smaller riders on a jones?
>>>
>>> having rode a 48cm Hunq, curious how the jones fits, as well as if the
>>> 29+ wheels are too big.
>>>
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Re: [RBW] Re: Jones and Hunq

[Philip Kim]

ahh great info thanks! emailed jones and they said it's fine, but they 
pointed me towards the spaceframe if i had any concerns. glad the 24" plus 
fits well. might be a good 27+ candidatE?

On Thursday, May 18, 2017 at 1:02:57 PM UTC-4, dstein wrote:
>
> I have a 48cm hunq and a 24" jones plus. The hunq was my 'original' mtn 
> bike, now the jones isfits fine. it's so well designed that it doesn't 
> feel that big when you're in it at all, but if you look at it it is huge, 
> especially compared to my small hunq with 26" wheels. the only times it 
> feels 'too big' are on a few super narrow single track trails with a steep 
> cliff I ride sometime, a combination of the wide ass handlebars and 3" 
> tires  makes me nervous, and sent me down the hillside once or twice. but 
> for the other 99% of the riding I do (which is a lot of other technical 
> singletrack) it is fantastic and fits just right.
>
> On Thursday, May 18, 2017 at 9:10:30 AM UTC-7, Philip Kim wrote:
>>
>> any smaller riders on a jones?
>>
>> having rode a 48cm Hunq, curious how the jones fits, as well as if the 
>> 29+ wheels are too big.
>>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Jones and Hunq

[dstein]

I have a 48cm hunq and a 24" jones plus. The hunq was my 'original' mtn 
bike, now the jones isfits fine. it's so well designed that it doesn't 
feel that big when you're in it at all, but if you look at it it is huge, 
especially compared to my small hunq with 26" wheels. the only times it 
feels 'too big' are on a few super narrow single track trails with a steep 
cliff I ride sometime, a combination of the wide ass handlebars and 3" 
tires  makes me nervous, and sent me down the hillside once or twice. but 
for the other 99% of the riding I do (which is a lot of other technical 
singletrack) it is fantastic and fits just right.

On Thursday, May 18, 2017 at 9:10:30 AM UTC-7, Philip Kim wrote:
>
> any smaller riders on a jones?
>
> having rode a 48cm Hunq, curious how the jones fits, as well as if the 29+ 
> wheels are too big.
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Jones and Hunq

[Philip Kim]

any smaller riders on a jones?

having rode a 48cm Hunq, curious how the jones fits, as well as if the 29+ 
wheels are too big.

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Re: [RBW] Re: Jones and Hunq

[David Stein]

Nice! I just got some g-ones for my jones and love them. A little slippery
on one ride i went on recently but otherwise do fantastic on the roads and
most other trails. Happy riding.

On Thu, May 18, 2017 at 8:47 AM, Geeter  wrote:

> Built!  Ride report in the near future!
>
>
>
>
>>> --
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Re: [RBW] Re: Jones and Hunq

[Geeter]

Will do!

On Sunday, March 26, 2017 at 6:42:16 PM UTC-5, dstein wrote:
>
> Awesome, excited to see the spaceframe built up and hear how you like it.
>
> On Sun, Mar 26, 2017 at 2:10 PM, Geeter  
> wrote:
>
>> To revive my old thread, I love my Hunq.  I also decided to sell my 
>> titanium hardtail (it is available!) and get a spaceframe.  I will update 
>> when I get the build going!
>>
>>
>> On Wednesday, December 21, 2016 at 7:18:45 PM UTC-6, Christopher Cote 
>> wrote:
>>>
>>> I just may take you up on that offer!
>>>
>>> On Wednesday, December 21, 2016 at 7:56:42 PM UTC-5, Daniel Jackson 
>>> wrote:

 25" steel 135 rear 150 front titanium forked Rohloff modded Plus in 
 Northern VT open for test rides. 
>>>
>>> -- 
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Re: [RBW] Re: Jones and Hunq

[David Stein]

Awesome, excited to see the spaceframe built up and hear how you like it.

On Sun, Mar 26, 2017 at 2:10 PM, Geeter  wrote:

> To revive my old thread, I love my Hunq.  I also decided to sell my
> titanium hardtail (it is available!) and get a spaceframe.  I will update
> when I get the build going!
>
>
> On Wednesday, December 21, 2016 at 7:18:45 PM UTC-6, Christopher Cote
> wrote:
>>
>> I just may take you up on that offer!
>>
>> On Wednesday, December 21, 2016 at 7:56:42 PM UTC-5, Daniel Jackson wrote:
>>>
>>> 25" steel 135 rear 150 front titanium forked Rohloff modded Plus in
>>> Northern VT open for test rides.
>>
>> --
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Re: [RBW] Re: Jones and Hunq

[Geeter]

To revive my old thread, I love my Hunq.  I also decided to sell my 
titanium hardtail (it is available!) and get a spaceframe.  I will update 
when I get the build going!

On Wednesday, December 21, 2016 at 7:18:45 PM UTC-6, Christopher Cote wrote:
>
> I just may take you up on that offer!
>
> On Wednesday, December 21, 2016 at 7:56:42 PM UTC-5, Daniel Jackson wrote:
>>
>> 25" steel 135 rear 150 front titanium forked Rohloff modded Plus in 
>> Northern VT open for test rides. 
>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Jones and Hunq

[Christopher Cote]

I just may take you up on that offer!

On Wednesday, December 21, 2016 at 7:56:42 PM UTC-5, Daniel Jackson wrote:
>
> 25" steel 135 rear 150 front titanium forked Rohloff modded Plus in 
> Northern VT open for test rides. 

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Re: [RBW] Re: Jones and Hunq

[Mike Williams]

Holy Daniel!  That sounds like the dream bike!

Sent from my iPhone

> On Dec 21, 2016, at 4:56 PM, Daniel Jackson  
> wrote:
> 
> 25" steel 135 rear 150 front titanium forked Rohloff modded Plus in Northern 
> VT open for test rides. 
> 
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Re: [RBW] Re: Jones and Hunq

[Daniel Jackson]

25" steel 135 rear 150 front titanium forked Rohloff modded Plus in Northern VT 
open for test rides. 

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Re: [RBW] Re: Jones and Hunq

[Bob K.]

I'd love to ride a Jones Plus, too. I'm in Baltimore. Anyone with a Plus 
nearby? I also get up to the NE pretty often, and I'll be in Exeter, NH for a 
week this June. I contacted Jeff to see if he knows if any demos are 'round 
these parts, but it doesn't look good based on the searches I've done thus far.

Thanks for all of the great info in this thread everyone!

Bob K. in Baltimore

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Re: [RBW] Re: Jones and Hunq

[Christopher Cote]

I'm in southern Maine, near Portland. Too far from Ohio, but thanks anyway. 
Yeah, the front hub on the Jones 135 is unnerving. At least there's a few 
150mm hub options and an increasing supply of fat bikes out there to 
support that standard. It's the 148 on the new bike that worries me.

On Wednesday, December 21, 2016 at 4:17:57 PM UTC-5, Eric Daume wrote:
>
> Where are you located? There's a tiny chance someone has a Jones near 
> you... you're welcome to test ride my 25" Plus model, if you're near 
> Central Ohio.
>
> Regarding hub standards, the older QR Jones uses a 142mm through axle 
> *front* disc spaced hub on the front fork. Good luck finding one of those 
> anywhere, aside from Jones and Paul.
>
> Eric
> Plain City, OH
>
> On Wed, Dec 21, 2016 at 3:51 PM, Christopher Cote  > wrote:
>
>> I'm sure it would be, if that's what effect lowering the trail has. I 
>> just don't know. There's no dealer for Jones anywhere near here, and 
>> finding one to try is not likely to happen. It's a big investment to buy 
>> one just to find out. That's why I'm posting here, to learn from Jones 
>> owners.
>>
>> On Wednesday, December 21, 2016 at 3:37:28 PM UTC-5, Steve Palincsar 
>> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 12/21/2016 03:34 PM, Christopher Cote wrote: 
>>> > Thanks for the response! I haven't ridden a low trail bike, so I 
>>> > really can't say how trail influences the ride. I do know exactly what 
>>> > you're saying about the trail effects of fat tires, though. By the 
>>> > numbers, my Wednesday already has well over 100mm of trail. Add the 
>>> > extremely low tire pressure I like to run, and it can be interesting 
>>> > to get the bike to change lines sometimes. That's when the short 
>>> > chainstays are nice, I can loft the front end and apply a little body 
>>> > english to get the ship to come around. I don't know if it's a 
>>> > holdover from riding dirt bikes, but I also find myself dabbing the 
>>> > rear brake a bit to help change direction sometimes. 
>>>
>>> Don't you think it would be better to reduce the trail so that you could 
>>> actually steer the bike without having to do front end lifts and 
>>> bootlegger turns? 
>>>
>>> -- 
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>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Jones and Hunq

[Eric Daume]

Where are you located? There's a tiny chance someone has a Jones near
you... you're welcome to test ride my 25" Plus model, if you're near
Central Ohio.

Regarding hub standards, the older QR Jones uses a 142mm through axle
*front* disc spaced hub on the front fork. Good luck finding one of those
anywhere, aside from Jones and Paul.

Eric
Plain City, OH

On Wed, Dec 21, 2016 at 3:51 PM, Christopher Cote <
christopherjamesc...@gmail.com> wrote:

> I'm sure it would be, if that's what effect lowering the trail has. I just
> don't know. There's no dealer for Jones anywhere near here, and finding one
> to try is not likely to happen. It's a big investment to buy one just to
> find out. That's why I'm posting here, to learn from Jones owners.
>
> On Wednesday, December 21, 2016 at 3:37:28 PM UTC-5, Steve Palincsar wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> On 12/21/2016 03:34 PM, Christopher Cote wrote:
>> > Thanks for the response! I haven't ridden a low trail bike, so I
>> > really can't say how trail influences the ride. I do know exactly what
>> > you're saying about the trail effects of fat tires, though. By the
>> > numbers, my Wednesday already has well over 100mm of trail. Add the
>> > extremely low tire pressure I like to run, and it can be interesting
>> > to get the bike to change lines sometimes. That's when the short
>> > chainstays are nice, I can loft the front end and apply a little body
>> > english to get the ship to come around. I don't know if it's a
>> > holdover from riding dirt bikes, but I also find myself dabbing the
>> > rear brake a bit to help change direction sometimes.
>>
>> Don't you think it would be better to reduce the trail so that you could
>> actually steer the bike without having to do front end lifts and
>> bootlegger turns?
>>
>> --
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Re: [RBW] Re: Jones and Hunq

[Christopher Cote]

I'm sure it would be, if that's what effect lowering the trail has. I just 
don't know. There's no dealer for Jones anywhere near here, and finding one 
to try is not likely to happen. It's a big investment to buy one just to 
find out. That's why I'm posting here, to learn from Jones owners.

On Wednesday, December 21, 2016 at 3:37:28 PM UTC-5, Steve Palincsar wrote:
>
>
>
> On 12/21/2016 03:34 PM, Christopher Cote wrote: 
> > Thanks for the response! I haven't ridden a low trail bike, so I 
> > really can't say how trail influences the ride. I do know exactly what 
> > you're saying about the trail effects of fat tires, though. By the 
> > numbers, my Wednesday already has well over 100mm of trail. Add the 
> > extremely low tire pressure I like to run, and it can be interesting 
> > to get the bike to change lines sometimes. That's when the short 
> > chainstays are nice, I can loft the front end and apply a little body 
> > english to get the ship to come around. I don't know if it's a 
> > holdover from riding dirt bikes, but I also find myself dabbing the 
> > rear brake a bit to help change direction sometimes. 
>
> Don't you think it would be better to reduce the trail so that you could 
> actually steer the bike without having to do front end lifts and 
> bootlegger turns? 
>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Jones and Hunq

[Christopher Cote]

I'm sure it would be.

On Wednesday, December 21, 2016 at 3:37:28 PM UTC-5, Steve Palincsar wrote:
>
>
>
> On 12/21/2016 03:34 PM, Christopher Cote wrote: 
> > Thanks for the response! I haven't ridden a low trail bike, so I 
> > really can't say how trail influences the ride. I do know exactly what 
> > you're saying about the trail effects of fat tires, though. By the 
> > numbers, my Wednesday already has well over 100mm of trail. Add the 
> > extremely low tire pressure I like to run, and it can be interesting 
> > to get the bike to change lines sometimes. That's when the short 
> > chainstays are nice, I can loft the front end and apply a little body 
> > english to get the ship to come around. I don't know if it's a 
> > holdover from riding dirt bikes, but I also find myself dabbing the 
> > rear brake a bit to help change direction sometimes. 
>
> Don't you think it would be better to reduce the trail so that you could 
> actually steer the bike without having to do front end lifts and 
> bootlegger turns? 
>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Jones and Hunq

[Steve Palincsar]

On 12/21/2016 03:34 PM, Christopher Cote wrote:
Thanks for the response! I haven't ridden a low trail bike, so I 
really can't say how trail influences the ride. I do know exactly what 
you're saying about the trail effects of fat tires, though. By the 
numbers, my Wednesday already has well over 100mm of trail. Add the 
extremely low tire pressure I like to run, and it can be interesting 
to get the bike to change lines sometimes. That's when the short 
chainstays are nice, I can loft the front end and apply a little body 
english to get the ship to come around. I don't know if it's a 
holdover from riding dirt bikes, but I also find myself dabbing the 
rear brake a bit to help change direction sometimes.


Don't you think it would be better to reduce the trail so that you could 
actually steer the bike without having to do front end lifts and 
bootlegger turns?


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Re: [RBW] Re: Jones and Hunq

[stonehog]

Bill, I rode a friend's 25" Jones Plus on singletrack, and it felt fine, but 
larger than I needed. I'm 5'11" with a 76cm SH, and would definitely go for the 
24". Fun bike. Also have a Hunqa. Different for sure!  Jones is more dirt 
oriented, but you strangely sit straight up on it. It feels like you are skiing 
through the woods. Way different than any MTB geometry I've ever encountered 
(not saying much). I liked it, but could climb better on my hard tail Kona ti 
bike. I think the Jones would make a killer backcountry bikepacker. I think the 
Hunqa is more versatile, however. 

Brian Hanson
Seattle, WA
www.stonehog.com

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Re: [RBW] Re: Jones and Hunq

[iamkeith]

I have a regular 29 Jones spaceframe, and can't comment on the Plus other 
than to extrapolate (Jeff intended the two bikes  - 24"  Plus is equivalent 
to the 23" 29 - to encourage/accommodate the same fit and riding position). 
  I'm 6'-2" with proportionally long torso / short legs.

Regarding Bill's questions about fit:

As Eric said, the original production 29 bike was designed to fit Jeff 
himself, who is 6'-0" tall.   An inch or so either way, accounting for 
unique body proportions, is a pretty easy fit process.   For those beyond 
that - particularly at the extreme ends of the fit range, it is most often 
a fairly intensive process to get things dialed in.   Though Jeff has a 
pretty good handle on it and recommends a good starting point, anecdotal 
evidence will tell you that people spend a lot of energy and a lot of time 
on this.   Experimenting with layback or straight seatposts, different stem 
lengths, more or fewer stem spacers, different handlebars if the Loop 
doesn't jive and, as dstein said, a bottom bracket that gives you 1/2" of 
fore/aft or up/down fine tuning and effectively changes the frame size. 
 And then you can dial in the steering to accommodate your final weighting 
balance, by playing with head tube shims.


I have it set up now where I can, in a few minutes, swap in a different 
seatpost/saddle and stem to fit my 5'5" wife reasonably well.  If she has 
her druthers, this is the bike she will choose when we go mountain biking, 
so I'm excited about the small Plus as a possibility for her.  (it is a 
spaceframe design, by the way, which makes it even better.)  


However while the bike *does* work well for people of different sizes, 
what nobody ever really says is *that they each experience it in entirely 
different ways!*  It's basically a completely different bike for each 
person.  For people under about 5'-10" or so, you often hear them describe 
how they feel centered and ride "in the bike."   For those over 6'-1" like 
me, nothing could be further from accurate.  In my case, a big seatpost 
extension combined with a shallow angle means that I basically sit directly 
above the rear axle - not "in" the bike at all.  And it really doesn't work 
to fight this, either, because of the relatively short top tube and close 
cockpit.   Even with the slack angle, I had to use even more setback than I 
was accustomed to. 


For me and for how I use the bike - as a true mountain/trail bike - I 
really like the fact that my chainstays are effectively shorter.  Wheelies, 
jumps, bunny hops, steep descents, tight turns are what it's about. So, 
while the comfort and riding position and low center of gravity are very 
akin to a Rivendell, the rest of its personality is extremely different.


So, as to the OP's question of whether there is room for both a Jones and a 
Hunq:  

I say "heck, yeah!" The Hunqapillar is and has been since it was released, 
STILL my dream bike.Variety is the spice of life, so you just need to 
set them up differently.   The issue for me though, and why I've never 
gotten a Hunq., is that for the way I want to set up and use *that* bike, I 
really expect it to fit perfect WITHOUT making accommodations.  More of my 
all-day, everyday, touring, town, short road rides, light trail, shopping, 
picnic, camping, loaded touring, keep-it-for-the-rest-of-my-life bike.   So 
I want it in MY size. 


I always tell people that if a Riv fits you well, buy it!  Fit trumps 
everything and is not always as automatic as you'd hope.


(I admittedly might have a problem though, because I want a 25" Plus, too) 



On Sunday, December 18, 2016 at 2:28:21 PM UTC-7, Bill Lindsay wrote:
>
> Eric reported: 
>
> "I'm 6'3", 36" PBH, and fit quite well on a 25" Jones Plus (now "Jones 
> Large"). It's one of the most comfortable bikes I've owned, maybe THE most 
> comfortable."
>
> Thanks for responding.  It's very good that you are comfortable on your 
> Jones Plus, but I was asking more about fit than comfort.  Specifically, my 
> main question was not "who fits on a Jones".  My question was "how does 
> fitting work?"  Do you "get fit" by taking numerous measurements, like some 
> "bike fitters" do professionally?  Do you just jump on a bike and ride it 
> and buy one if you like it?  Do you talk on the phone to somebody at Jones 
> and they say "just buy size X?"  The thing I'm gathering is that the Jones 
> is almost like a BMX bike for grown ups.  It's so fun and killer and 
> comfortable that it transcends size and fit.  Just go ride it and have 
> fun.  Nobody "fit" a BMX bike.  You just rode it and smiled.  Is that a 
> reasonable assessment?  Or is there something particular about the build 
> process where you dial in the fit with the steertube and seat post, and so 
> forth that allows you to get a precise "fit" even though there are only two 
> sizes?  The vibe I'm getting is the bike kind of transcends fit.  Just go 
> ride it, tweak things if you feel like it, and 

Re: [RBW] Re: Jones and Hunq

[Bill Lindsay]

Splendid.  I think I get it.  Since I'm smack dab in the middle of the 
range of heights for a medium, I'll take a wild guess that Jeff would put 
me on a medium.  ;-)

It's a fantastically cool bike, from my perspective.  If I buy one someday, 
I'll be sure to ride one first and/or talk to Jeff.

On Monday, December 19, 2016 at 1:46:58 PM UTC-8, Daniel Jackson wrote:
>
> Bill,
>
> I talked to Jeff about it. He asked for my PBH and height. He knew what to 
> put me on. 
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Jones and Hunq

[Daniel Jackson]

Bill,

I talked to Jeff about it. He asked for my PBH and height. He knew what to put 
me on. 

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Re: [RBW] Re: Jones and Hunq

[Bill Lindsay]

Eric explained how the Jones designs accommodates a range of riders in a 
single size, and Geeter pointed out that there's a Small (23") to go with 
the Medium (24") and the Large (25").  

That's all very good, but still not what I was asking.  I was asking how 
one chooses a size or how Jones recommends a size.  How does it work? 
 Since nobody has answered that, I'm guessing that it's probably exactly 
like I bought my mountain bike.  I looked at some numbers on the Niner 
webpage and I guessed.  I built it up and I changed the things I felt like 
I needed to change.  That's pretty much how all mountain bikes work, and 
it's totally fine.  Nobody "gets fit" on a mountain bike.  Guess, buy, and 
ride.  Tweak if needed, and guess again if you got it wrong.  The more 
guesses you've made the more likely your next guess will be a good one.  

The reason I asked how it worked is that Jones bikes are being lauded as 
surprisingly good road bikes.  Road bike fitting is more prescriptive, and 
road riding involves sitting there in basically the same position on the 
bike for hours on end, so it kind of needs to fit to be comfortable. 
 Mountain biking is much more of a dynamic activity.  You are moving around 
with the bike in completely different ways, and so 'fit' is not really a 
concrete defined thing.  If the Jones is a bike that people use for long 
road rides, I wondered if the fitting was prescriptive and precise like 
road bike fitting, or was more of a 'guess and tweak' process, like 
mountain bikes.  Sounds like it is more the latter, which is fine.   

Bill Lindsay
El Cerrito, CA

On Sunday, December 18, 2016 at 2:00:55 PM UTC-8, Geeter wrote:
>
> Bill, Jones now has a 23" spaceframe plus for riders too short for the 24" 
> plus.

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Re: [RBW] Re: Jones and Hunq

[Andrew Huston]

All this talk makes me feel that getting rid of my Jones may be a mistake. 
(shameless plug for current sale ;)  I don't ride the Plus and the Diamond 29 
only comes in a 23".  When spending this amount of money on a bike and being 
told one size (or two) fits a range, it's hard not to be skeptical.  My PBH is 
~84cm at 5'10".  Jeff suggested the stem length which seems the only necessary 
part needed to change fit.  It is amazing how I can feel upright and super 
comfortable for long rides, aggressive when I want to be, and good in technical 
stuff.  Loop bars are a big reason. She ain't light tho, super stout.  I run 
Schwalbe Big Apples on road and trail and with good pressure, does a nice job.  
All the buzz seems to be on the Plus but the 29 is a great all around bike.  I 
think Jeff is filling many folks Holy Grail bike dream.  

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Re: [RBW] Re: Jones and Hunq

[Geeter]

Bill, Jones now has a 23" spaceframe plus for riders too short for the 24" plus.

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Re: [RBW] Re: Jones and Hunq

[Eric Daume]

Bill asked more specifically about the Jones fit.

I think there's two things that let the Jones fit a wide variety of sizes:

- the seat tube is very slack, so a taller rider moves back more,
increasing reach

- the Jones H bar allow a big range of reach adjustment, so lots of room to
find a comfortable position.

I could think of a few other factors: the EBB lets riders adjust the bottom
bracket relative to the seat, and the rigid specific geometry keeps the
front end relatively low, for good standover clearance on the sloping top
tube. But I think the first two points are the most key.

Eric

On Sun, Dec 18, 2016 at 4:28 PM, Bill Lindsay  wrote:

> Eric reported:
>
> "I'm 6'3", 36" PBH, and fit quite well on a 25" Jones Plus (now "Jones
> Large"). It's one of the most comfortable bikes I've owned, maybe THE most
> comfortable."
>
> Thanks for responding.  It's very good that you are comfortable on your
> Jones Plus, but I was asking more about fit than comfort.  Specifically, my
> main question was not "who fits on a Jones".  My question was "how does
> fitting work?"  Do you "get fit" by taking numerous measurements, like some
> "bike fitters" do professionally?  Do you just jump on a bike and ride it
> and buy one if you like it?  Do you talk on the phone to somebody at Jones
> and they say "just buy size X?"  The thing I'm gathering is that the Jones
> is almost like a BMX bike for grown ups.  It's so fun and killer and
> comfortable that it transcends size and fit.  Just go ride it and have
> fun.  Nobody "fit" a BMX bike.  You just rode it and smiled.  Is that a
> reasonable assessment?  Or is there something particular about the build
> process where you dial in the fit with the steertube and seat post, and so
> forth that allows you to get a precise "fit" even though there are only two
> sizes?  The vibe I'm getting is the bike kind of transcends fit.  Just go
> ride it, tweak things if you feel like it, and ride it some more.  Is that
> the way it works?
>
> Bill Lindsay
> El Cerrito, CA
>
>
>
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Re: [RBW] Re: Jones and Hunq

[David Stein]

I have the 24" and am on the short side at 5'7" and it fits great. Never
thought twice about it once I got it (and I way overthought it before
ordering, and was put off by this the longest time till I rode someones
Jones). This is from a dirtrag article, I'm sure Jeff has some blurb
somewhere as well":

"Though Jeff ‘s claim of proper fit for riders 5’5” to 6’2” may seem
dubious, I now believe it to be valid for the vast majority of people. As
rider height increases the virtual seat tube slackens to accommodate taller
riders, and conversely steepens for shorter riders. In conjunction with a
longer or shorter stem, the rider’s fore-aft weight distribution remains
similar, regardless of height. For perspective, Jeff designed this bike
around his six-foot self."


On Sun, Dec 18, 2016 at 1:28 PM, Bill Lindsay  wrote:

> Eric reported:
>
> "I'm 6'3", 36" PBH, and fit quite well on a 25" Jones Plus (now "Jones
> Large"). It's one of the most comfortable bikes I've owned, maybe THE most
> comfortable."
>
> Thanks for responding.  It's very good that you are comfortable on your
> Jones Plus, but I was asking more about fit than comfort.  Specifically, my
> main question was not "who fits on a Jones".  My question was "how does
> fitting work?"  Do you "get fit" by taking numerous measurements, like some
> "bike fitters" do professionally?  Do you just jump on a bike and ride it
> and buy one if you like it?  Do you talk on the phone to somebody at Jones
> and they say "just buy size X?"  The thing I'm gathering is that the Jones
> is almost like a BMX bike for grown ups.  It's so fun and killer and
> comfortable that it transcends size and fit.  Just go ride it and have
> fun.  Nobody "fit" a BMX bike.  You just rode it and smiled.  Is that a
> reasonable assessment?  Or is there something particular about the build
> process where you dial in the fit with the steertube and seat post, and so
> forth that allows you to get a precise "fit" even though there are only two
> sizes?  The vibe I'm getting is the bike kind of transcends fit.  Just go
> ride it, tweak things if you feel like it, and ride it some more.  Is that
> the way it works?
>
> Bill Lindsay
> El Cerrito, CA
>
>
>
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Re: [RBW] Re: Jones and Hunq

[Ray Varella]

I've wondered the same thing in regards to how does one individual fit 
themselves to a Jones bike. 
I don't have any experience with BMX bikes (or the Jones for that matter) but 
rode 26" wheel Schwinn cruisers for years. 
Several of my friends rode them as well. 
There was over 12" difference in height between the shortest and tallest riders 
and everyone rode the same size bike. 
No one ever second guessed their fit, we just made adjustments to bars and 
saddle heights.  

Is the Jones bike fit more like a 26" wheeled cruiser in terms of getting a 
good fit. 

Is good enough better than exact on these bikes?


Ray
Vallejo CA

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Re: [RBW] Re: Jones and Hunq

[Bill Lindsay]

Eric reported: 

"I'm 6'3", 36" PBH, and fit quite well on a 25" Jones Plus (now "Jones 
Large"). It's one of the most comfortable bikes I've owned, maybe THE most 
comfortable."

Thanks for responding.  It's very good that you are comfortable on your 
Jones Plus, but I was asking more about fit than comfort.  Specifically, my 
main question was not "who fits on a Jones".  My question was "how does 
fitting work?"  Do you "get fit" by taking numerous measurements, like some 
"bike fitters" do professionally?  Do you just jump on a bike and ride it 
and buy one if you like it?  Do you talk on the phone to somebody at Jones 
and they say "just buy size X?"  The thing I'm gathering is that the Jones 
is almost like a BMX bike for grown ups.  It's so fun and killer and 
comfortable that it transcends size and fit.  Just go ride it and have 
fun.  Nobody "fit" a BMX bike.  You just rode it and smiled.  Is that a 
reasonable assessment?  Or is there something particular about the build 
process where you dial in the fit with the steertube and seat post, and so 
forth that allows you to get a precise "fit" even though there are only two 
sizes?  The vibe I'm getting is the bike kind of transcends fit.  Just go 
ride it, tweak things if you feel like it, and ride it some more.  Is that 
the way it works?

Bill Lindsay
El Cerrito, CA

   

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Re: [RBW] Re: Jones and Hunq

['Mojo' via RBW Owners Bunch]

Bill, I wrote a JP review back in July 2015.
https://groups.google.com/forum/m/#!topic/internet-bob/v92_t69-FYQ

I am 72.5 inches tall with an 89 PBH. I like my 25 inch Jones Plus. It is big 
for me but that hasn't caused any problems for me. Jeff Jones of similar height 
chooses the 24 but rides both.

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Re: [RBW] Re: Jones and Hunq

[Eric Daume]

Bill L asked: who fits on a Jones

I'm 6'3", 36" PBH, and fit quite well on a 25" Jones Plus (now "Jones
Large"). It's one of the most comfortable bikes I've owned, maybe THE most
comfortable.

I've had my Jones for almost a year. Here's a mid point write up:

https://bikingtoplay.blogspot.com/2016/07/bike-update-jones.html

I like so much about the bike, but lately I'm wondering if 29+ wheels just
have too much inertia for our twisty trails. Sometimes, it takes a bit of
man handling to twist the front end around. I'm lately experimenting with
650B+ in a 29er frame to see if that's a happy medium.

Eric
Plain City, OH

On Sun, Dec 18, 2016 at 3:28 PM, Bill Lindsay  wrote:

> To the Jones Plus lovers:  How does "fitting" work?  The glaringly obvious
> difference between the Jones Plus and the Hunqapillar on-paper is that the
> Jones comes in two sizes and the Hunqapillar comes in ELEVEN.  What PBH
> ranges can ride a Jones Plus?  I'm probably fine because I'm a 5'10" man
> and everything fits me.  But what range of the middle of the bell curve can
> get by on a Jones Plus?  What size do you have and what is your PBH?
>
> Bill Lindsay
> El Cerrito, CA
>
>
> On Sunday, December 18, 2016 at 12:11:50 PM UTC-8, Mojo wrote:
>>
>> I'll jump in here. I have ridden the Jones Plus for 18 months and a
>> Krampus for an afternoon. There is no comparison. The Jones' handling is
>> fast and nimble. It climbs like no other bike. The Jones has numerous
>> design features that work together for its unique (to me) handling. The
>> shallow head angle, 67.5 degrees, and very long rake, 76mm, create
>> geometric trail in the mid 70s. The Krampus has a slackish HA at 69 degrees
>> but uses a more traditional rake of 47mm (because big rake requires a
>> radically new, or very old, fork design) that creates a very sluggish 100mm
>> of geometric trail. The 'upright and back' rider position also adds to the
>> Jones' nimbleness.
>>
>> Then the rear end; the Jones chainstays are 19 inches, the Krampus 17.1
>> inches. I personally am DONE with short CSs. The longer CSs help me keep
>> the front end down during steep climbs.
>>
>> The far out front wheel and the far back rear wheel make for a large
>> sweet spot for climbing, and security for steep descents. I agree with
>> Daniel, the Jones is in a different league than the Krampus. I love Surly's
>> but not for 29er Plus design, yet.
>>
>> Joe in GJT
>>
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Re: [RBW] Re: Jones and Hunq

[Bill Lindsay]

To the Jones Plus lovers:  How does "fitting" work?  The glaringly obvious 
difference between the Jones Plus and the Hunqapillar on-paper is that the 
Jones comes in two sizes and the Hunqapillar comes in ELEVEN.  What PBH 
ranges can ride a Jones Plus?  I'm probably fine because I'm a 5'10" man 
and everything fits me.  But what range of the middle of the bell curve can 
get by on a Jones Plus?  What size do you have and what is your PBH?  

Bill Lindsay
El Cerrito, CA

On Sunday, December 18, 2016 at 12:11:50 PM UTC-8, Mojo wrote:
>
> I'll jump in here. I have ridden the Jones Plus for 18 months and a 
> Krampus for an afternoon. There is no comparison. The Jones' handling is 
> fast and nimble. It climbs like no other bike. The Jones has numerous 
> design features that work together for its unique (to me) handling. The 
> shallow head angle, 67.5 degrees, and very long rake, 76mm, create 
> geometric trail in the mid 70s. The Krampus has a slackish HA at 69 degrees 
> but uses a more traditional rake of 47mm (because big rake requires a 
> radically new, or very old, fork design) that creates a very sluggish 100mm 
> of geometric trail. The 'upright and back' rider position also adds to the 
> Jones' nimbleness.
>
> Then the rear end; the Jones chainstays are 19 inches, the Krampus 17.1 
> inches. I personally am DONE with short CSs. The longer CSs help me keep 
> the front end down during steep climbs.
>
> The far out front wheel and the far back rear wheel make for a large sweet 
> spot for climbing, and security for steep descents. I agree with Daniel, 
> the Jones is in a different league than the Krampus. I love Surly's but not 
> for 29er Plus design, yet.
>
> Joe in GJT
>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Jones and Hunq

[Robert Keal]

Daniel and Joe--

Yeah, it seems like a Jones Plus may be in my future! Going to have to
pinch some pennies for that day to come, though--maybe by next fall unless
a used one shows up somewhere (unlikely). Luckily, the Krampus may not
stand up when A-B'd with the Jones Plus, but it's still a pretty fun bike
for an ignoramus such as myself! Thanks for all of the great input, and my
apologies to others for throwing a third bike in this Hunq/Jones Plus
thread.

Bob

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Re: [RBW] Re: Jones and Hunq

['Mojo' via RBW Owners Bunch]

I'll jump in here. I have ridden the Jones Plus for 18 months and a Krampus for 
an afternoon. There is no comparison. The Jones' handling is fast and nimble. 
It climbs like no other bike. The Jones has numerous design features that work 
together for its unique (to me) handling. The shallow head angle, 67.5 degrees, 
and very long rake, 76mm, create geometric trail in the mid 70s. The Krampus 
has a slackish HA at 69 degrees but uses a more traditional rake of 47mm 
(because big rake requires a radically new, or very old, fork design) that 
creates a very sluggish 100mm of geometric trail. The 'upright and back' rider 
position also adds to the Jones' nimbleness.

Then the rear end; the Jones chainstays are 19 inches, the Krampus 17.1 inches. 
I personally am DONE with short CSs. The longer CSs help me keep the front end 
down during steep climbs.

The far out front wheel and the far back rear wheel make for a large sweet spot 
for climbing, and security for steep descents. I agree with Daniel, the Jones 
is in a different league than the Krampus. I love Surly's but not for 29er Plus 
design, yet.

Joe in GJT

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Re: [RBW] Re: Jones and Hunq

[Daniel Jackson]

Dear Bob,

I transitioned from a Krampus to my Plus. The similarity between the two 
ends at the 29+ platform. The Plus is a mature, well thought out design 
with geometry optimized for the large footprint; the Krampus is a 29er with 
a yoke designed to clear 3" tires - nothing more. Where the Plus is fast 
and extremely nimble, the Krampus is downright sloppy. And the Plus riding 
position is exceptional compared to the Krampus, allowing the rider to be 
far more comfortable in technical terrain without suspension. Yes, 3" tires 
certainly help, but front end geometry dictates how trail forces translate 
to the rider - the Plus has this dialed. 

Best,
Daniel

On Saturday, December 17, 2016 at 12:42:57 PM UTC-5, Bob K. wrote:
>
> I wish I could get my mitts on a Jones Plus for a test ride! I love my 
> new-to-me Krampus, but I can't help but feel like the Jones is my grail 
> bike. I keep hearing and reading that it essentially defies categorization 
> in all the right ways. I also hear that it's fantastic for long rides, on 
> or off road. Daniel's report definitely seems to lend some backbone to all 
> of the praise.
>
>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Jones and Hunq

[Robert Keal]

I wish I could get my mitts on a Jones Plus for a test ride! I love my
new-to-me Krampus, but I can't help but feel like the Jones is my grail
bike. I keep hearing and reading that it essentially defies categorization
in all the right ways. I also hear that it's fantastic for long rides, on
or off road. Daniel's report definitely seems to lend some backbone to all
of the praise.

On Sat, Dec 17, 2016 at 12:40 PM, Clayton.sf  wrote:

>
>
> On Friday, December 16, 2016 at 6:31:19 PM UTC-8, Tony DeFilippo wrote:
>>
>> Clayton and Daniel - thanks! Both of your responses just make me want to
>> get out and test ride a Jones sometime soon... I found a semi-local shop
>> that actually has a diamond frame for rent so I think i'll be able to make
>> that happen in the somewhat near future. Daniel your notes about Grant's
>> geographical influence in the design of the Hunq (and other bikes) is
>> interesting and lines up with my experience with my Bombadil.  Both it and
>> the Saluki are perfect for the C Towpath and both are awesome underbiking
>> on singletrack.  And I have plenty to learn from going slower and picking
>> my lines carefully so it's not really a limitation.
>>
>> Clayton your 4 bike stable seems aligned perfectly to my own mental image
>> of a great 4 bike spread!  Funny b/c I haven't ridden any of the 4 bikes,
>> bike tinkering lives in my head as much as in my time in the saddle I
>> suppose.  Still it seems like a clear division of riding styles in your
>> choices.  If I became enamored enough of the Jones it would force me to
>> make a tough decision between the Saluki and Bombadil, much as I like the
>> idea of N+4+1 I think for me 2-3 bikes plus the tandem is the right number.
>>
>
>
> I am always surprised at how far I can press I bike into dirt service. Was
> riding fire roads single track (no jumps) on the fixed gear the other day
> and it worked just fine with 30mm tires. That said, the Jones is a very
> special bike. It rides very different from how you'd expect it to given the
> looks.
>
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-- 
Bob
443 278 4265
http://www.smallsur.com

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