subject:"Re\: \[RBW\] Winter cycling pants"

dehydration is the biggest cause of knee pain

I've never heard this. Could you please elaborate?

With abandon,
Patrick

On Sunday, October 6, 2013 6:01:52 AM UTC-6, Ron Mc wrote:

 ps - dehydration is the biggest cause of knee pain - if your knee hurts, 
 stop and hydrate


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Re: [RBW] Winter cycling pants

2013-10-06 Thread clayton bailey

Thanks Ron for the discount code. I have been riding in cold weather now for 25 
years. I have lived most of that time in the mountains, but now live in Bend 
Oregon. I have not been payin' attention to the newest and coolest technical 
fabrics. I appreciate your advice on the wool.




On Sunday, October 6, 2013 4:52 AM, Ron Mc bulldog...@gmail.com wrote:
 
base layer, insulation layer, wind block - a dictated by the temps and wind 
chill.  Just this morning, I purchased a merino wool base layer, top and 
bottom, plus an extra pair of merino wool boxer briefs for $97 shipped from 
sierratradingpost.  here was the extra 35% off keycode FNW5634Y good through 
Monday.  I just searched men merino on the stp website.  

On Saturday, October 5, 2013 12:18:38 PM UTC-5, Peter M wrote:
I grew up in the mountains in upstate NY and have to agree, if your core is 
warm your extremities will be warm. I focused on layers on my core and in below 
freezing weather my hands feet and knees are still warm. If you have good core 
layering you shouldn't need super pants. 
On Oct 5, 2013 1:07 PM, David T. davidt...@yahoo.ca wrote:



I am a Canadian from Northern Ontario. 

Cold on your knees may not be a cause of your knee pain. Putting wraps and 
bandages on might just make it feel worse. 

You don't need much on your legs. Above about 7 degrees celsius ( 45 degrees 
fahrenheit ) shorts are appropriate. I love seeing the ride reports from the 
beautiful States but I notice that people sometimes overdress there. 

For outdoor activities, a pair of light wool dress pants can't be beat. 
Second hand, or even an old pair from a marrying and burying suit. You 
don't need to buy any cycling- or sports-specific legwear. 

For really cold weather, the most you would need is a pair of long johns with 
some kind of synthetic layer over. If you get cold, pedal harder. If you 
start to sweat too much, slow down or rest until you cool to the right level. 

Keep cycling and maybe do some resistance/weight training to build up your 
quads and hamstrings; that will help with most knee problems. 






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Re: [RBW] Winter cycling pants

2013-10-06 Thread RJM

Really?  I would like to hear more about that. 
 
I sometimes have terrible knee pain in my left knee but have always chalked 
it up to the fact I sprained it 15 years ago and it just flares up. If I 
can find a natural, non-doctor/drug way of alleviating the pain, I would 
love to. 
 
 

On Sunday, October 6, 2013 7:01:52 AM UTC-5, Ron Mc wrote:

 ps - dehydration is the biggest cause of knee pain - if your knee hurts, 
 stop and hydrate

 On Sunday, October 6, 2013 6:52:29 AM UTC-5, Ron Mc wrote:

 base layer, insulation layer, wind block - a dictated by the temps and 
 wind chill.  Just this morning, I purchased a merino wool base layer, top 
 and bottom, plus an extra pair of merino wool boxer briefs for $97 shipped 
 from sierratradingpost.  here was the extra 35% off keycode FNW5634Y good 
 through Monday.  I just searched men merino on the stp website.  

 On Saturday, October 5, 2013 12:18:38 PM UTC-5, Peter M wrote:

 I grew up in the mountains in upstate NY and have to agree, if your core 
 is warm your extremities will be warm. I focused on layers on my core and 
 in below freezing weather my hands feet and knees are still warm. If you 
 have good core layering you shouldn't need super pants. 
 On Oct 5, 2013 1:07 PM, David T. davidt...@yahoo.ca wrote:



 I am a Canadian from Northern Ontario. 

 Cold on your knees may not be a cause of your knee pain. Putting wraps 
 and bandages on might just make it feel worse. 

 You don't need much on your legs. Above about 7 degrees celsius ( 45 
 degrees fahrenheit ) shorts are appropriate. I love seeing the ride 
 reports 
 from the beautiful States but I notice that people sometimes overdress 
 there. 

 For outdoor activities, a pair of light wool dress pants can't be beat. 
 Second hand, or even an old pair from a marrying and burying suit. You 
 don't need to buy any cycling- or sports-specific legwear. 

 For really cold weather, the most you would need is a pair of long 
 johns with some kind of synthetic layer over. If you get cold, pedal 
 harder. If you start to sweat too much, slow down or rest until you cool 
 to 
 the right level. 

 Keep cycling and maybe do some resistance/weight training to build up 
 your quads and hamstrings; that will help with most knee problems. 





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Re: [RBW] Winter cycling pants

In my personal experience and that of many others eliminating grains, 
veggie oils, and processed foods eliminated issues of inflammation. Helped 
a lot of others as well. Also, in my experience, eliminating those from my 
diet greatly decreased my need for constant water.

With abandon,
Patrick

On Sunday, October 6, 2013 9:05:14 AM UTC-6, RJM wrote:

 Really?  I would like to hear more about that. 
  
 I sometimes have terrible knee pain in my left knee but have always 
 chalked it up to the fact I sprained it 15 years ago and it just flares up. 
 If I can find a natural, non-doctor/drug way of alleviating the pain, I 
 would love to. 
  
  

 On Sunday, October 6, 2013 7:01:52 AM UTC-5, Ron Mc wrote:

 ps - dehydration is the biggest cause of knee pain - if your knee hurts, 
 stop and hydrate

 On Sunday, October 6, 2013 6:52:29 AM UTC-5, Ron Mc wrote:

 base layer, insulation layer, wind block - a dictated by the temps and 
 wind chill.  Just this morning, I purchased a merino wool base layer, top 
 and bottom, plus an extra pair of merino wool boxer briefs for $97 shipped 
 from sierratradingpost.  here was the extra 35% off keycode FNW5634Y good 
 through Monday.  I just searched men merino on the stp website.  

 On Saturday, October 5, 2013 12:18:38 PM UTC-5, Peter M wrote:

 I grew up in the mountains in upstate NY and have to agree, if your 
 core is warm your extremities will be warm. I focused on layers on my core 
 and in below freezing weather my hands feet and knees are still warm. If 
 you have good core layering you shouldn't need super pants. 
 On Oct 5, 2013 1:07 PM, David T. davidt...@yahoo.ca wrote:



 I am a Canadian from Northern Ontario. 

 Cold on your knees may not be a cause of your knee pain. Putting wraps 
 and bandages on might just make it feel worse. 

 You don't need much on your legs. Above about 7 degrees celsius ( 45 
 degrees fahrenheit ) shorts are appropriate. I love seeing the ride 
 reports 
 from the beautiful States but I notice that people sometimes overdress 
 there. 

 For outdoor activities, a pair of light wool dress pants can't be 
 beat. Second hand, or even an old pair from a marrying and burying 
 suit. 
 You don't need to buy any cycling- or sports-specific legwear. 

 For really cold weather, the most you would need is a pair of long 
 johns with some kind of synthetic layer over. If you get cold, pedal 
 harder. If you start to sweat too much, slow down or rest until you cool 
 to 
 the right level. 

 Keep cycling and maybe do some resistance/weight training to build up 
 your quads and hamstrings; that will help with most knee problems. 





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Re: [RBW] Winter cycling pants

2013-10-06 Thread Philip Williamson

You know how you argue against science? You present evidence that doesn't 
support the theory. 
And... Actually, that's just More Science. 

Philip
www.biketinker.com

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Re: [RBW] Winter cycling pants

2013-10-06 Thread Steve Palincsar


On 10/06/2013 09:51 AM, Deacon Patrick wrote:

dehydration is the biggest cause of knee pain

I've never heard this. Could you please elaborate?



I was told by an orthopaedist when you're dehydrated your cartilege 
shrinks and if it's marginal hey presto, there's your knee pain!


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Re: [RBW] Winter cycling pants

This remark has nothing to do with winter pants, but it does bear on knee
pain.

Ever since my high school days, when I believed that shifting to the
smaller ring to climb hills was sissy, I've had a twinge in my left knee
after just a bit of torquing a high gear up a hill while seated. (My first
complete build, circa 1971, age 15 or 16, had a 50t ring and a 15 t cog.) A
month or so ago, during an otherwise very pleasant and scenic gravel ride
with 17 miles of climbing outbound (return in less than 1 hour versus the 2
hours oubound!) my left knee complained loud and long.

It was almost instinctive to force myself to pedal by dropping my heel at
the bottom of the stroke; sure enough, I found and continue to find that
this goes a considerable way toward keeping the knee pain at bay. (As a fan
of fixed gear riding who rides in rolling terrain, I've also learned to
stand early, as soon as the slope starts to bog me down while sitting.)

This afternoon, for example, I pushed a 75 gear against a slight headwind
and up a very steep 1.3 km, and seasoned things with another 3 miles of
more gradual climbing -- always being careful to drop my left heel if I was
seated while applying heavy torque. Now, 1 1/2 hour later, when my left
knee would in the past be bothering me -- no twinge atall.

Knee covered by Nashbar Nickers at 65*F, too.

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Re: [RBW] Winter cycling pants

With midfoot pedaling I have never had a knee twinge. Forefoot pedaling I 
have. A different way of getting the heel down, same result.

With abandon,
Patrick

On Sunday, October 6, 2013 3:13:39 PM UTC-6, Patrick Moore wrote:

 This remark has nothing to do with winter pants, but it does bear on knee 
 pain. 

 Ever since my high school days, when I believed that shifting to the 
 smaller ring to climb hills was sissy, I've had a twinge in my left knee 
 after just a bit of torquing a high gear up a hill while seated. (My first 
 complete build, circa 1971, age 15 or 16, had a 50t ring and a 15 t cog.) A 
 month or so ago, during an otherwise very pleasant and scenic gravel ride 
 with 17 miles of climbing outbound (return in less than 1 hour versus the 2 
 hours oubound!) my left knee complained loud and long. 

 It was almost instinctive to force myself to pedal by dropping my heel at 
 the bottom of the stroke; sure enough, I found and continue to find that 
 this goes a considerable way toward keeping the knee pain at bay. (As a fan 
 of fixed gear riding who rides in rolling terrain, I've also learned to 
 stand early, as soon as the slope starts to bog me down while sitting.)

 This afternoon, for example, I pushed a 75 gear against a slight headwind 
 and up a very steep 1.3 km, and seasoned things with another 3 miles of 
 more gradual climbing -- always being careful to drop my left heel if I was 
 seated while applying heavy torque. Now, 1 1/2 hour later, when my left 
 knee would in the past be bothering me -- no twinge atall.

 Knee covered by Nashbar Nickers at 65*F, too.


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Re: [RBW] Winter cycling pants

Do you climb in big gears?

I tend to place my at the backs of the slots, but I do use the muscles that
operate when you pedal with the foot forward of the arch.


On Sun, Oct 6, 2013 at 3:26 PM, Deacon Patrick lamontg...@mac.com wrote:

 With midfoot pedaling I have never had a knee twinge. Forefoot pedaling I
 have. A different way of getting the heel down, same result.


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Re: [RBW] Winter cycling pants

I climb big mountains in little gears, a fair amount of the time standing.

With abandon,
Patrick

On Sunday, October 6, 2013 4:03:38 PM UTC-6, Patrick Moore wrote:

 Do you climb in big gears?

 I tend to place my at the backs of the slots, but I do use the muscles 
 that operate when you pedal with the foot forward of the arch.


 On Sun, Oct 6, 2013 at 3:26 PM, Deacon Patrick lamon...@mac.comjavascript:
  wrote:

 With midfoot pedaling I have never had a knee twinge. Forefoot pedaling I 
 have. A different way of getting the heel down, same result.


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Re: [RBW] Winter cycling pants

Standing is no problem; no knee pain no matter what the gear or slope. But
sitting and torquing is the danger.

I just don't feel comfortable with Arch Over Pedal Spindle; it feels
artificial. Note that this has nothing to do with No Retention -- I know of
one man, not much my junior, who smokes his full susp, 11 sp peers on steep
singletrack with a ss 29er and No Retention. It's arch pedaling that feels
bad, to me. Foot on pedal slightly aft of ball of foot, with heel dropped,
gives extra power and helps my left knee (my right knee is wholly
unbothered by seated, high-torque climbing).

On Sun, Oct 6, 2013 at 4:09 PM, Deacon Patrick lamontg...@mac.com wrote:

I climb big mountains in little gears, a fair amount of the time standing.

With abandon,
Patrick

On Sunday, October 6, 2013 4:03:38 PM UTC-6, Patrick Moore wrote:

Do you climb in big gears?

I tend to place my at the backs of the slots, but I do use the muscles
that operate when you pedal with the foot forward of the arch.

On Sun, Oct 6, 2013 at 3:26 PM, Deacon Patrick lamon...@mac.com wrote:

With midfoot pedaling I have never had a knee twinge. Forefoot pedaling
I have. A different way of getting the heel down, same result.

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Re: [RBW] Winter cycling pants

I don't arch pedal, but rear forefoot and outer midfoot pedal, if that
makes sense. When I do sit and torque (for rear traction), no knee issues.

With abandon,
Patrick

On Sunday, October 6, 2013 4:14:57 PM UTC-6, Patrick Moore wrote:

Standing is no problem; no knee pain no matter what the gear or slope. But
sitting and torquing is the danger.

On Sun, Oct 6, 2013 at 4:09 PM, Deacon Patrick lamon...@mac.comjavascript:
wrote:

I climb big mountains in little gears, a fair amount of the time standing.

With abandon,
Patrick

On Sunday, October 6, 2013 4:03:38 PM UTC-6, Patrick Moore wrote:

Do you climb in big gears?

I tend to place my at the backs of the slots, but I do use the muscles
that operate when you pedal with the foot forward of the arch.

On Sun, Oct 6, 2013 at 3:26 PM, Deacon Patrick lamon...@mac.com wrote:

With midfoot pedaling I have never had a knee twinge. Forefoot pedaling
I have. A different way of getting the heel down, same result.

Albuquerque, NM

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Re: [RBW] Winter cycling pants

So, perhaps we're much the same -- pedaling just behind the ball of the
foot? I find that cleats don't go far enough backward if the bolts have
wide heads (as on my Looks).

At any rate, that's what I do.

Anyway, for The Other Person, pedaling behind the ball of foot seems to
help at least two people.

On Sun, Oct 6, 2013 at 4:37 PM, Deacon Patrick lamontg...@mac.com wrote:

I don't arch pedal, but rear forefoot and outer midfoot pedal, if that
makes sense. When I do sit and torque (for rear traction), no knee issues.

With abandon,
Patrick

On Sunday, October 6, 2013 4:14:57 PM UTC-6, Patrick Moore wrote:

Standing is no problem; no knee pain no matter what the gear or slope.
But sitting and torquing is the danger.

On Sun, Oct 6, 2013 at 4:09 PM, Deacon Patrick lamon...@mac.com wrote:

I climb big mountains in little gears, a fair amount of the time
standing.

With abandon,
Patrick

On Sunday, October 6, 2013 4:03:38 PM UTC-6, Patrick Moore wrote:

Do you climb in big gears?

I tend to place my at the backs of the slots, but I do use the muscles
that operate when you pedal with the foot forward of the arch.

On Sun, Oct 6, 2013 at 3:26 PM, Deacon Patrick lamon...@mac.comwrote:

With midfoot pedaling I have never had a knee twinge. Forefoot
pedaling I have. A different way of getting the heel down, same result.

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Re: [RBW] Winter cycling pants

Here are two good pictures of it:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/32311885@N07/10077254556/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/32311885@N07/10077255616/

However you'd define that.

With abandon,
Patrick

On Sunday, October 6, 2013 4:39:08 PM UTC-6, Patrick Moore wrote:

So, perhaps we're much the same -- pedaling just behind the ball of the
foot? I find that cleats don't go far enough backward if the bolts have
wide heads (as on my Looks).

At any rate, that's what I do.

Anyway, for The Other Person, pedaling behind the ball of foot seems to
help at least two people.

On Sun, Oct 6, 2013 at 4:37 PM, Deacon Patrick lamon...@mac.comjavascript:
wrote:

I don't arch pedal, but rear forefoot and outer midfoot pedal, if that
makes sense. When I do sit and torque (for rear traction), no knee issues.

With abandon,
Patrick

On Sunday, October 6, 2013 4:14:57 PM UTC-6, Patrick Moore wrote:

Standing is no problem; no knee pain no matter what the gear or slope.
But sitting and torquing is the danger.

On Sun, Oct 6, 2013 at 4:09 PM, Deacon Patrick lamon...@mac.com wrote:

I climb big mountains in little gears, a fair amount of the time
standing.

With abandon,
Patrick

On Sunday, October 6, 2013 4:03:38 PM UTC-6, Patrick Moore wrote:

Do you climb in big gears?

I tend to place my at the backs of the slots, but I do use the muscles
that operate when you pedal with the foot forward of the arch.

On Sun, Oct 6, 2013 at 3:26 PM, Deacon Patrick lamon...@mac.comwrote:

With midfoot pedaling I have never had a knee twinge. Forefoot
pedaling I have. A different way of getting the heel down, same result.

Albuquerque, NM

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Re: [RBW] Winter cycling pants

#1 is arch riding --ONONONONO!

#2 -- well, maybe.

But! Use what works for you. No G-D arches for me, but then I prolly don't
climb as high as you, anyway.

On Sun, Oct 6, 2013 at 4:52 PM, Deacon Patrick lamontg...@mac.com wrote:

Here are two good pictures of it:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/32311885@N07/10077254556/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/32311885@N07/10077255616/

However you'd define that.

With abandon,
Patrick

On Sunday, October 6, 2013 4:39:08 PM UTC-6, Patrick Moore wrote:

So, perhaps we're much the same -- pedaling just behind the ball of the
foot? I find that cleats don't go far enough backward if the bolts have
wide heads (as on my Looks).

At any rate, that's what I do.

Anyway, for The Other Person, pedaling behind the ball of foot seems to
help at least two people.

On Sun, Oct 6, 2013 at 4:37 PM, Deacon Patrick lamon...@mac.com wrote:

I don't arch pedal, but rear forefoot and outer midfoot pedal, if that
makes sense. When I do sit and torque (for rear traction), no knee issues.

With abandon,
Patrick

On Sunday, October 6, 2013 4:14:57 PM UTC-6, Patrick Moore wrote:

Standing is no problem; no knee pain no matter what the gear or slope.
But sitting and torquing is the danger.

On Sun, Oct 6, 2013 at 4:09 PM, Deacon Patrick lamon...@mac.comwrote:

I climb big mountains in little gears, a fair amount of the time
standing.

With abandon,
Patrick

On Sunday, October 6, 2013 4:03:38 PM UTC-6, Patrick Moore wrote:

Do you climb in big gears?

I tend to place my at the backs of the slots, but I do use the
muscles that operate when you pedal with the foot forward of the arch.

On Sun, Oct 6, 2013 at 3:26 PM, Deacon Patrick lamon...@mac.comwrote:

With midfoot pedaling I have never had a knee twinge. Forefoot
pedaling I have. A different way of getting the heel down, same result.

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Re: [RBW] Winter cycling pants

2013-10-06 Thread hsmitham

Was just reading this thread and Peter M. Dude you made me laugh Try an 
Android phone, maybe it will keep your hands warmer. ..what makes that so 
funny is that it's so true! My Android phone totally runs hot. Now my 
laughing at this comment does not negate the fact that people are different 
and generalizations are all false to include this one. Hey it made me laugh 
that's a wonderful thing.

~Hugh

On Saturday, October 5, 2013 1:49:11 PM UTC-7, Peter M wrote:

 Its actually science, but no one ever said you cant argue against 
 science.  Try an Android phone, maybe it will keep your hands warmer. 


 On Sat, Oct 5, 2013 at 3:49 PM, Anne Paulson anne.p...@gmail.comjavascript:
  wrote:

 Can I just request that people not generalize from their own
 experience to everyone else's? If *your* core is warm, your
 extremities are warm, but that is not true for me, nor is it true for
 many other people. If I sit in my tent, in my sleeping bag, using my
 iPhone, on a cold night my hands will get cold if I don't wear gloves.
 That is why I have those works-with-touchscreen gloves; without them,
 my hands get ice cold if I try to read. Even if the temps are in the
 40s.

 I find the It works for me so it should work for you too attitude a
 little annoying as well as silly.

 -- Anne

 On Sat, Oct 5, 2013 at 10:18 AM, Peter Morgano 
 uscpet...@gmail.comjavascript: 
 wrote:
  I grew up in the mountains in upstate NY and have to agree, if your 
 core is
  warm your extremities will be warm. I focused on layers on my core and 
 in
  below freezing weather my hands feet and knees are still warm. If you 
 have
  good core layering you shouldn't need super pants.
 
  On Oct 5, 2013 1:07 PM, David T. davidt...@yahoo.ca javascript: 
 wrote:
 
 
 
  I am a Canadian from Northern Ontario.
 
  Cold on your knees may not be a cause of your knee pain. Putting wraps 
 and
  bandages on might just make it feel worse.
 
  You don't need much on your legs. Above about 7 degrees celsius ( 45
  degrees fahrenheit ) shorts are appropriate. I love seeing the ride 
 reports
  from the beautiful States but I notice that people sometimes overdress
  there.
 
  For outdoor activities, a pair of light wool dress pants can't be beat.
  Second hand, or even an old pair from a marrying and burying suit. 
 You
  don't need to buy any cycling- or sports-specific legwear.
 
  For really cold weather, the most you would need is a pair of long 
 johns
  with some kind of synthetic layer over. If you get cold, pedal harder. 
 If
  you start to sweat too much, slow down or rest until you cool to the 
 right
  level.
 
  Keep cycling and maybe do some resistance/weight training to build up 
 your
  quads and hamstrings; that will help with most knee problems.
 
 
 
 
 
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Re: [RBW] Winter cycling pants

2013-10-06 Thread Peter Morgano

Wait, that's a personal opinion, not allowed according to list police!  ;-)
On Oct 6, 2013 10:07 PM, Rod Holland rholland1...@gmail.com wrote:

 I've had good luck with Sport Hill 3P XC pants, with a merino wool base
 layer as needed. Plenty warm enough for tbe worst that Massachusetts
 winters dish out.

 rod

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Re: [RBW] Winter cycling pants

2013-10-05 Thread David T.



I am a Canadian from Northern Ontario. 

Cold on your knees may not be a cause of your knee pain. Putting wraps and 
bandages on might just make it feel worse. 

You don't need much on your legs. Above about 7 degrees celsius ( 45 
degrees fahrenheit ) shorts are appropriate. I love seeing the ride reports 
from the beautiful States but I notice that people sometimes overdress 
there. 

For outdoor activities, a pair of light wool dress pants can't be beat. 
Second hand, or even an old pair from a marrying and burying suit. You 
don't need to buy any cycling- or sports-specific legwear. 

For really cold weather, the most you would need is a pair of long johns 
with some kind of synthetic layer over. If you get cold, pedal harder. If 
you start to sweat too much, slow down or rest until you cool to the right 
level. 

Keep cycling and maybe do some resistance/weight training to build up your 
quads and hamstrings; that will help with most knee problems. 





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Re: [RBW] Winter cycling pants

I grew up in the mountains in upstate NY and have to agree, if your core is
warm your extremities will be warm. I focused on layers on my core and in
below freezing weather my hands feet and knees are still warm. If you have
good core layering you shouldn't need super pants.
On Oct 5, 2013 1:07 PM, David T. davidtren...@yahoo.ca wrote:



 I am a Canadian from Northern Ontario.

 Cold on your knees may not be a cause of your knee pain. Putting wraps and
 bandages on might just make it feel worse.

 You don't need much on your legs. Above about 7 degrees celsius ( 45
 degrees fahrenheit ) shorts are appropriate. I love seeing the ride reports
 from the beautiful States but I notice that people sometimes overdress
 there.

 For outdoor activities, a pair of light wool dress pants can't be beat.
 Second hand, or even an old pair from a marrying and burying suit. You
 don't need to buy any cycling- or sports-specific legwear.

 For really cold weather, the most you would need is a pair of long johns
 with some kind of synthetic layer over. If you get cold, pedal harder. If
 you start to sweat too much, slow down or rest until you cool to the right
 level.

 Keep cycling and maybe do some resistance/weight training to build up your
 quads and hamstrings; that will help with most knee problems.





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Re: [RBW] Winter cycling pants

2013-10-05 Thread Anne Paulson

Can I just request that people not generalize from their own
experience to everyone else's? If *your* core is warm, your
extremities are warm, but that is not true for me, nor is it true for
many other people. If I sit in my tent, in my sleeping bag, using my
iPhone, on a cold night my hands will get cold if I don't wear gloves.
That is why I have those works-with-touchscreen gloves; without them,
my hands get ice cold if I try to read. Even if the temps are in the
40s.

I find the It works for me so it should work for you too attitude a
little annoying as well as silly.

-- Anne

On Sat, Oct 5, 2013 at 10:18 AM, Peter Morgano uscpeter11...@gmail.com wrote:
 I grew up in the mountains in upstate NY and have to agree, if your core is
 warm your extremities will be warm. I focused on layers on my core and in
 below freezing weather my hands feet and knees are still warm. If you have
 good core layering you shouldn't need super pants.

 On Oct 5, 2013 1:07 PM, David T. davidtren...@yahoo.ca wrote:



 I am a Canadian from Northern Ontario.

 Cold on your knees may not be a cause of your knee pain. Putting wraps and
 bandages on might just make it feel worse.

 You don't need much on your legs. Above about 7 degrees celsius ( 45
 degrees fahrenheit ) shorts are appropriate. I love seeing the ride reports
 from the beautiful States but I notice that people sometimes overdress
 there.

 For outdoor activities, a pair of light wool dress pants can't be beat.
 Second hand, or even an old pair from a marrying and burying suit. You
 don't need to buy any cycling- or sports-specific legwear.

 For really cold weather, the most you would need is a pair of long johns
 with some kind of synthetic layer over. If you get cold, pedal harder. If
 you start to sweat too much, slow down or rest until you cool to the right
 level.

 Keep cycling and maybe do some resistance/weight training to build up your
 quads and hamstrings; that will help with most knee problems.





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It isn't a contest. Enjoy the ride.

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Re: [RBW] Winter cycling pants

Its actually science, but no one ever said you cant argue against science.
Try an Android phone, maybe it will keep your hands warmer.


On Sat, Oct 5, 2013 at 3:49 PM, Anne Paulson anne.paul...@gmail.com wrote:

 Can I just request that people not generalize from their own
 experience to everyone else's? If *your* core is warm, your
 extremities are warm, but that is not true for me, nor is it true for
 many other people. If I sit in my tent, in my sleeping bag, using my
 iPhone, on a cold night my hands will get cold if I don't wear gloves.
 That is why I have those works-with-touchscreen gloves; without them,
 my hands get ice cold if I try to read. Even if the temps are in the
 40s.

 I find the It works for me so it should work for you too attitude a
 little annoying as well as silly.

 -- Anne

 On Sat, Oct 5, 2013 at 10:18 AM, Peter Morgano uscpeter11...@gmail.com
 wrote:
  I grew up in the mountains in upstate NY and have to agree, if your core
 is
  warm your extremities will be warm. I focused on layers on my core and in
  below freezing weather my hands feet and knees are still warm. If you
 have
  good core layering you shouldn't need super pants.
 
  On Oct 5, 2013 1:07 PM, David T. davidtren...@yahoo.ca wrote:
 
 
 
  I am a Canadian from Northern Ontario.
 
  Cold on your knees may not be a cause of your knee pain. Putting wraps
 and
  bandages on might just make it feel worse.
 
  You don't need much on your legs. Above about 7 degrees celsius ( 45
  degrees fahrenheit ) shorts are appropriate. I love seeing the ride
 reports
  from the beautiful States but I notice that people sometimes overdress
  there.
 
  For outdoor activities, a pair of light wool dress pants can't be beat.
  Second hand, or even an old pair from a marrying and burying suit. You
  don't need to buy any cycling- or sports-specific legwear.
 
  For really cold weather, the most you would need is a pair of long johns
  with some kind of synthetic layer over. If you get cold, pedal harder.
 If
  you start to sweat too much, slow down or rest until you cool to the
 right
  level.
 
  Keep cycling and maybe do some resistance/weight training to build up
 your
  quads and hamstrings; that will help with most knee problems.
 
 
 
 
 
  --
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 Groups
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 It isn't a contest. Enjoy the ride.

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Re: [RBW] Winter cycling pants

2013-10-05 Thread Deacon Patrick

Good point, Anne, though the principle is still at work for you; however, 
people have different circulation systems and sitting still in a tent is 
different than a body in motion generating a lot more heat and pumping a 
lot more volume of blood from the core to the extremities. Also, we 
acclimatize to where we live, so when warm blooded folks come to the 
mountains they are freezing. For me, there is a switch in my brain that 
gets turned off (or on?) when I'm brain fatigued and I can't generate heat 
at all. Even if it's 80˚F I'm in a sweater and shivering and extremities 
are freezing. We knew I wasn't doing well on fire evacuation in The Utah 
desert at 100+˚F and I was comfortable and not sweating at all. Sardonic 
grin.

With abandon,
Patrick

On Saturday, October 5, 2013 1:49:42 PM UTC-6, Anne Paulson wrote:

 Can I just request that people not generalize from their own 
 experience to everyone else's? If *your* core is warm, your 
 extremities are warm, but that is not true for me, nor is it true for 
 many other people. If I sit in my tent, in my sleeping bag, using my 
 iPhone, on a cold night my hands will get cold if I don't wear gloves. 
 That is why I have those works-with-touchscreen gloves; without them, 
 my hands get ice cold if I try to read. Even if the temps are in the 
 40s. 

 I find the It works for me so it should work for you too attitude a 
 little annoying as well as silly. 

 -- Anne 

 On Sat, Oct 5, 2013 at 10:18 AM, Peter Morgano 
 uscpet...@gmail.comjavascript: 
 wrote: 
  I grew up in the mountains in upstate NY and have to agree, if your core 
 is 
  warm your extremities will be warm. I focused on layers on my core and 
 in 
  below freezing weather my hands feet and knees are still warm. If you 
 have 
  good core layering you shouldn't need super pants. 
  
  On Oct 5, 2013 1:07 PM, David T. davidt...@yahoo.ca javascript: 
 wrote: 
  
  
  
  I am a Canadian from Northern Ontario. 
  
  Cold on your knees may not be a cause of your knee pain. Putting wraps 
 and 
  bandages on might just make it feel worse. 
  
  You don't need much on your legs. Above about 7 degrees celsius ( 45 
  degrees fahrenheit ) shorts are appropriate. I love seeing the ride 
 reports 
  from the beautiful States but I notice that people sometimes overdress 
  there. 
  
  For outdoor activities, a pair of light wool dress pants can't be beat. 
  Second hand, or even an old pair from a marrying and burying suit. 
 You 
  don't need to buy any cycling- or sports-specific legwear. 
  
  For really cold weather, the most you would need is a pair of long 
 johns 
  with some kind of synthetic layer over. If you get cold, pedal harder. 
 If 
  you start to sweat too much, slow down or rest until you cool to the 
 right 
  level. 
  
  Keep cycling and maybe do some resistance/weight training to build up 
 your 
  quads and hamstrings; that will help with most knee problems. 
  
  
  
  
  
  -- 
  You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google 
 Groups 
  RBW Owners Bunch group. 
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  email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com javascript:. 
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Re: [RBW] Winter cycling pants

2013-10-05 Thread Tim McNamara

Did you actually mean to say that?  Because, you know, condescending to Anne 
and also incorrect.  

The notion of if your core is warm, your extremities are warm is not 
scientifically valid.  It's folklore and ignores- for one thing- the science of 
thermal radiation and- for another- variations in circulatory capacity in the 
limbs.  You can have a nice warm core and still frostbite your fingers and 
toes. 



 On Oct 5, 2013, at 3:49 PM, Peter Morgano uscpeter11...@gmail.com wrote:
 
 Its actually science, but no one ever said you cant argue against science.  
 Try an Android phone, maybe it will keep your hands warmer.
 
 
 On Sat, Oct 5, 2013 at 3:49 PM, Anne Paulson anne.paul...@gmail.com wrote:
 Can I just request that people not generalize from their own
 experience to everyone else's? If *your* core is warm, your
 extremities are warm, but that is not true for me, nor is it true for
 many other people. If I sit in my tent, in my sleeping bag, using my
 iPhone, on a cold night my hands will get cold if I don't wear gloves.
 That is why I have those works-with-touchscreen gloves; without them,
 my hands get ice cold if I try to read. Even if the temps are in the
 40s.
 
 I find the It works for me so it should work for you too attitude a
 little annoying as well as silly.
 
 -- Anne
 
 On Sat, Oct 5, 2013 at 10:18 AM, Peter Morgano uscpeter11...@gmail.com 
 wrote:
  I grew up in the mountains in upstate NY and have to agree, if your core is
  warm your extremities will be warm. I focused on layers on my core and in
  below freezing weather my hands feet and knees are still warm. If you have
  good core layering you shouldn't need super pants.
 
  On Oct 5, 2013 1:07 PM, David T. davidtren...@yahoo.ca wrote:
 
 
 
  I am a Canadian from Northern Ontario.
 
  Cold on your knees may not be a cause of your knee pain. Putting wraps and
  bandages on might just make it feel worse.
 
  You don't need much on your legs. Above about 7 degrees celsius ( 45
  degrees fahrenheit ) shorts are appropriate. I love seeing the ride 
  reports
  from the beautiful States but I notice that people sometimes overdress
  there.
 
  For outdoor activities, a pair of light wool dress pants can't be beat.
  Second hand, or even an old pair from a marrying and burying suit. You
  don't need to buy any cycling- or sports-specific legwear.
 
  For really cold weather, the most you would need is a pair of long johns
  with some kind of synthetic layer over. If you get cold, pedal harder. If
  you start to sweat too much, slow down or rest until you cool to the right
  level.
 
  Keep cycling and maybe do some resistance/weight training to build up your
  quads and hamstrings; that will help with most knee problems.
 
 
 
 
 
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Re: [RBW] Winter cycling pants

2013-10-05 Thread Anne Paulson

I kinda wonder about acclimation. I live in sunny California now, but
I grew up in New Jersey, where it sometimes snows in the winter, and I
went to college in Rhode Island, where it tends to be 33 degrees and
raining in the winter. And I never acclimated. I was just always cold
in the winter.

Y'know, when people say they find helmets hot, or they find rainpants
hot when it rains, I don't say You're wrong! I don't find helmets
hot, so you must not find them hot either. I don't find rainpants hot
in a cold rain, so you must not find them hot either. You're just so
stupid that you don't know what you feel. 'Cause I realize that
different people are different.


On Sat, Oct 5, 2013 at 2:12 PM, Deacon Patrick lamontg...@mac.com wrote:
 Good point, Anne, though the principle is still at work for you; however,
 people have different circulation systems and sitting still in a tent is
 different than a body in motion generating a lot more heat and pumping a lot
 more volume of blood from the core to the extremities. Also, we acclimatize
 to where we live, so when warm blooded folks come to the mountains they are
 freezing. For me, there is a switch in my brain that gets turned off (or
 on?) when I'm brain fatigued and I can't generate heat at all. Even if it's
 80˚F I'm in a sweater and shivering and extremities are freezing. We knew I
 wasn't doing well on fire evacuation in The Utah desert at 100+˚F and I was
 comfortable and not sweating at all. Sardonic grin.

 With abandon,
 Patrick


 On Saturday, October 5, 2013 1:49:42 PM UTC-6, Anne Paulson wrote:

 Can I just request that people not generalize from their own
 experience to everyone else's? If *your* core is warm, your
 extremities are warm, but that is not true for me, nor is it true for
 many other people. If I sit in my tent, in my sleeping bag, using my
 iPhone, on a cold night my hands will get cold if I don't wear gloves.
 That is why I have those works-with-touchscreen gloves; without them,
 my hands get ice cold if I try to read. Even if the temps are in the
 40s.

 I find the It works for me so it should work for you too attitude a
 little annoying as well as silly.

 -- Anne

 On Sat, Oct 5, 2013 at 10:18 AM, Peter Morgano uscpet...@gmail.com
 wrote:
  I grew up in the mountains in upstate NY and have to agree, if your core
  is
  warm your extremities will be warm. I focused on layers on my core and
  in
  below freezing weather my hands feet and knees are still warm. If you
  have
  good core layering you shouldn't need super pants.
 
  On Oct 5, 2013 1:07 PM, David T. davidt...@yahoo.ca wrote:
 
 
 
  I am a Canadian from Northern Ontario.
 
  Cold on your knees may not be a cause of your knee pain. Putting wraps
  and
  bandages on might just make it feel worse.
 
  You don't need much on your legs. Above about 7 degrees celsius ( 45
  degrees fahrenheit ) shorts are appropriate. I love seeing the ride
  reports
  from the beautiful States but I notice that people sometimes overdress
  there.
 
  For outdoor activities, a pair of light wool dress pants can't be beat.
  Second hand, or even an old pair from a marrying and burying suit.
  You
  don't need to buy any cycling- or sports-specific legwear.
 
  For really cold weather, the most you would need is a pair of long
  johns
  with some kind of synthetic layer over. If you get cold, pedal harder.
  If
  you start to sweat too much, slow down or rest until you cool to the
  right
  level.
 
  Keep cycling and maybe do some resistance/weight training to build up
  your
  quads and hamstrings; that will help with most knee problems.
 
 
 
 
 
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  Groups
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Re: [RBW] Winter cycling pants

Wow, this is the last I comment on this thread but I don't think anyone
called anyone stupid or told them they don't feel how they feel. Seems like
you just hyper personalized the issue. If people can't comment on their
personal experiences because they might offending someone then it's a
pretty sad state of affairs.
On Oct 5, 2013 5:28 PM, Anne Paulson anne.paul...@gmail.com wrote:

 I kinda wonder about acclimation. I live in sunny California now, but
 I grew up in New Jersey, where it sometimes snows in the winter, and I
 went to college in Rhode Island, where it tends to be 33 degrees and
 raining in the winter. And I never acclimated. I was just always cold
 in the winter.

 Y'know, when people say they find helmets hot, or they find rainpants
 hot when it rains, I don't say You're wrong! I don't find helmets
 hot, so you must not find them hot either. I don't find rainpants hot
 in a cold rain, so you must not find them hot either. You're just so
 stupid that you don't know what you feel. 'Cause I realize that
 different people are different.


 On Sat, Oct 5, 2013 at 2:12 PM, Deacon Patrick lamontg...@mac.com wrote:
  Good point, Anne, though the principle is still at work for you; however,
  people have different circulation systems and sitting still in a tent is
  different than a body in motion generating a lot more heat and pumping a
 lot
  more volume of blood from the core to the extremities. Also, we
 acclimatize
  to where we live, so when warm blooded folks come to the mountains they
 are
  freezing. For me, there is a switch in my brain that gets turned off (or
  on?) when I'm brain fatigued and I can't generate heat at all. Even if
 it's
  80˚F I'm in a sweater and shivering and extremities are freezing. We
 knew I
  wasn't doing well on fire evacuation in The Utah desert at 100+˚F and I
 was
  comfortable and not sweating at all. Sardonic grin.
 
  With abandon,
  Patrick
 
 
  On Saturday, October 5, 2013 1:49:42 PM UTC-6, Anne Paulson wrote:
 
  Can I just request that people not generalize from their own
  experience to everyone else's? If *your* core is warm, your
  extremities are warm, but that is not true for me, nor is it true for
  many other people. If I sit in my tent, in my sleeping bag, using my
  iPhone, on a cold night my hands will get cold if I don't wear gloves.
  That is why I have those works-with-touchscreen gloves; without them,
  my hands get ice cold if I try to read. Even if the temps are in the
  40s.
 
  I find the It works for me so it should work for you too attitude a
  little annoying as well as silly.
 
  -- Anne
 
  On Sat, Oct 5, 2013 at 10:18 AM, Peter Morgano uscpet...@gmail.com
  wrote:
   I grew up in the mountains in upstate NY and have to agree, if your
 core
   is
   warm your extremities will be warm. I focused on layers on my core and
   in
   below freezing weather my hands feet and knees are still warm. If you
   have
   good core layering you shouldn't need super pants.
  
   On Oct 5, 2013 1:07 PM, David T. davidt...@yahoo.ca wrote:
  
  
  
   I am a Canadian from Northern Ontario.
  
   Cold on your knees may not be a cause of your knee pain. Putting
 wraps
   and
   bandages on might just make it feel worse.
  
   You don't need much on your legs. Above about 7 degrees celsius ( 45
   degrees fahrenheit ) shorts are appropriate. I love seeing the ride
   reports
   from the beautiful States but I notice that people sometimes
 overdress
   there.
  
   For outdoor activities, a pair of light wool dress pants can't be
 beat.
   Second hand, or even an old pair from a marrying and burying suit.
   You
   don't need to buy any cycling- or sports-specific legwear.
  
   For really cold weather, the most you would need is a pair of long
   johns
   with some kind of synthetic layer over. If you get cold, pedal
 harder.
   If
   you start to sweat too much, slow down or rest until you cool to the
   right
   level.
  
   Keep cycling and maybe do some resistance/weight training to build up
   your
   quads and hamstrings; that will help with most knee problems.
  
  
  
  
  
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   Groups
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Re: [RBW] Winter cycling pants