Re: [realXtend] Website Expired !

[Toni Alatalo]

Our wordpress started working actually right after I had posted that reply
:)

My post to tell you people about the meeting on coming Monday afternoon is
now visible again:
https://realxtend.org/2016/09/06/open-meeting-on-mon-12th/

pasting here for convenience:

---

realXtend Association has an open members meeting on the coming Monday the
12th at 13:00 EET. In Oulu in the center and also on-line if people from
elsewhere want to join!

We focus on the use of realXtend and other 3D and multiuser application
technologies. Especially to identify development needs that can then
proposed to be funded by the realXtend Foundation.
---

I'll be posting updates about specifics if there is interest for the online
access, or the live meet in Oulu (we haven't fixed the place for that yet
as depends on the amount).

CEO/CTO folks from realXtend users such as Valo Company & Finpeda are
coming, and OTOH post doc researchers from the University of Oulu's UbiComp
3D city etc. team. Anyone is welcome, membership in the association is free
(and it basically is this mailing list & the blog, plus the codes in github
etc. of course). Private replies to this mail are fine for joining in now
as am organizing this meet.

Sorry for the delayed note, wanted actually the website to work first too.
There's a calendar event for convenience as well, the desc there is in
Finnish but the English version you saw here already:
https://calendar.google.com/calendar/render?action=TEMPLATE=b2htcW50amRtY2R2cWI5ZzVidjNmMWd0NG8gcmY4NDRoanFqb2I4OTU1cmcxNmxrZzhqajRAZw=rf844hjqjob8955rg16lkg8...@group.calendar.google.com=true=xml#eventpage_6

late summer regards,
~Toni (+358-40-7198759)

On Wed, Sep 7, 2016 at 1:55 PM, Toni Alatalo <t...@playsign.net> wrote:

> Yes sorry, the person taking care of it had had the credit card stolen -
> is fixing it, done soon I expect
>
> Greetings from Nokia 5G demo day BTW,  realXtend is featured with the Oulu
> center model :)
>
> On 7 Sep 2016 11:40, "Lord" <lords...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> The website, realxtend.org has expired at Wordpress (
> realxtend.wordpress.com ) .
>
> --
> --
> http://groups.google.com/group/realxtend
> http://www.realxtend.org
> ---
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Re: [realXtend] Website Expired !

[Toni Alatalo]

Yes sorry, the person taking care of it had had the credit card stolen - is
fixing it, done soon I expect

Greetings from Nokia 5G demo day BTW,  realXtend is featured with the Oulu
center model :)

On 7 Sep 2016 11:40, "Lord"  wrote:

The website, realxtend.org has expired at Wordpress (
realxtend.wordpress.com ) .

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[realXtend] Fwd: [New post] 3D Web Open Data Hackathon using realXtend and Meshmoon

[Toni Alatalo]

Hi - I posted a quick heads up of the Open Data  Smart Cities hackathon
that we're running now using realXtend and Meshmoon, and a little
preliminary info of other smart cities  realXtend related activities too.

-- Forwarded message --
From: realXtend comment-re...@wordpress.com
Date: Wed, Jun 10, 2015 at 11:36 AM
Subject: [New post] 3D Web  Open Data Hackathon using realXtend and
Meshmoon
To: t...@playsign.net


   toni.alatalo posted: An intense week of realXtend based app development
is going on here in Oulu now! As a part of the 7th Summer School on
Ubiquitous Computing organized by the UBI (UrBan Interactions) research
program, I and Cvetan  Koste from Adminotech are running a Respond to
this post by replying above this line
  New post on *realXtend*
http://realxtend.org/author/tonialatalo/  3D Web  Open Data Hackathon
using realXtend and Meshmoon
http://realxtend.org/2015/06/10/3d-web-open-data-hackathon-using-realxtend-and-meshmoon/
by
toni.alatalo http://realxtend.org/author/tonialatalo/

An intense week of realXtend based app development is going on here in Oulu
now! As a part of the 7th Summer School on Ubiquitous Computing organized
by the UBI (UrBan Interactions) research program, I and Cvetan  Koste from
Adminotech are running a hackathon with prof. Ojala. Focus of the hackathon
is open Open […]

Read more of this post
http://realxtend.org/2015/06/10/3d-web-open-data-hackathon-using-realxtend-and-meshmoon/
  *toni.alatalo http://realxtend.org/author/tonialatalo/* | 10/06/2015 at
06:36 | Categories: news http://realxtend.org/?cat=103 | URL:
http://wp.me/p1xiiJ-9B

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[realXtend] Fwd: [Bf-committers] Blender on Steam!

[Toni Alatalo]

just for info, interesting how that move seems to work out:


-- Forwarded message --
From: Ton Roosendaal t...@blender.org
Date: Sat, Apr 25, 2015 at 11:29 AM
Subject: [Bf-committers] Blender on Steam!
To: bf-blender developers bf-committ...@blender.org


Hi all,

After like two years of trying to get it organized via others, I just
held my breath and took a deep dive in the tedious paperwork and forms
procedures to get an app on Steam published! In the end paperwork is
my main job nowadays anyway :)

Martijn Berger did the essential work of getting Blender compiled and
submitted according to steam specs.

Result now is that we have the first version on Steam (windows, the
rest is following soon).
http://store.steampowered.com/app/365670/

The response and traffic on Steam is enormous, it looks like this page
on steam gets more traffic than the blender.org frontpage... :)

-Ton-


Ton Roosendaal  -  t...@blender.org   -   www.blender.org
Chairman Blender Foundation - Producer Blender Institute
Entrepotdok 57A  -  1018AD Amsterdam  -  The Netherlands



___
Bf-committers mailing list
bf-committ...@blender.org
http://lists.blender.org/mailman/listinfo/bf-committers

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[realXtend] Fwd: [UBISS 2015] Third Call for Students to 3D WEB AND OPEN DATA FOR SMART CITIES HACKATHON (application deadline March 20, 2015)

[Toni Alatalo]

FYI a realXtend based Summer School by the University of Oulu next June.


-- Forwarded message --
From: Timo Ojala timo.oj...@ee.oulu.fi
Date: Tue, Mar 10, 2015 at 4:11 PM
Subject: [UBISS 2015] Third Call for Students to 3D WEB AND OPEN DATA
FOR SMART CITIES HACKATHON (application deadline March 20, 2015)
To: oulu3d...@ee.oulu.fi


[apologies for any cross-postings]



UBISS 2015 - 6th International UBI Summer School 2015

Oulu, Finland, June 8-13, 2015

http://www.ubioulu.fi/en/UBISS2015



Application deadline: March 20, 2015.



UBISS 2015 - the 6th International UBI Summer School 2015 - will be
held in Oulu, Finland, on June 8-13, 2015. The UBI summer school
provides young researchers and professionals with an opportunity to
gain hands on experience and insight on selected topics on the
multidisciplinary fields of ubiquitous computing and urban informatics
under the tutelage of distinguished experts. While the summer school
is primarily targeted for doctoral candidates (postgraduate students),
undergraduate students, postdoctoral researchers, and industry and
public sector professionals are also welcome to attend. UBISS 2015
builds on the legacy of the previous five highly successful UBI summer
schools held in Oulu in 2010-2014.



UBISS 2015 comprises of four parallel 6-day workshops.



Workshop D: 3D WEB AND OPEN DATA FOR SMART CITIES HACKATHON



Maximum number of students to be enrolled to the workshop: 24



In recent years 3D graphics has become a more feasible and a more
important part of the multimedia experience in the world wide web.
Today, WebGL allows rendering interactive 3D graphics in modern web
browsers with GPU acceleration. Application development for 3D web is
enticed by the facts that (1) web browsers are available for all major
platforms including mobile devices, and (2) a web application
typically does not require the user to install or update any software
or libraries other than the web browser. A number of 3D web
applications have been developed for various domains from information
visualization to games, architecture and cultural heritage. This
hackathon style workshop focuses on the particular application domain
of “smart cities”, where 3D virtual city models are coupled with open
data sources (e.g. traffic, weather sensors, IoT) into novel prototype
applications using 3D web technologies.



The workshop first provides an overview of the 3D web technology
landscape, including WebGL, three.js, the basics of 3D modeling
applications (Blender, SketchUp), and the workflow from creation to
runtime engines. A special emphasis is placed on the technologies
developed in Oulu, i.e. the realXtend open source platform for
creating real-time networked multi-user 3D environments, the FIWARE
Advanced Web-based User Interface Generic Enablers, and the Meshmoon
hosting service for creating and hosting multi-user 3D spaces for
free. To bootstrap the hacking, the workshop participants are provided
with the “Virtual Oulu” 3D model of downtown Oulu and a number of open
data sources. In terms of 3D UI devices, the participants have access
to Oculus Rift VR headsets and a CAVE. The participants are grouped
into project teams of 3-4 students that each brainstorm, design and
implement their own prototype, including 3D web programming, 3D
content production and 3D UI design. For an example of such a
prototype, check out the “Virtual Helsinki” FIWARE demo exploiting
multiple FIWARE Generic Enablers. The source code of the prototype is
available at https://github.com/playsign/fidemo/ and is licensed as
open source for the code and with creative commons licenses for
graphics.



Prospective students should have expertise in at least one of the
following areas: 3D web programming, 3D content production, 3D UI
design.



The project teams producing particularly “successful” prototypes will
be offered the opportunity to (1) to “sell” their prototype for
real-world deployment in “Virtual Oulu” for a one-time fee, and (2)
collaborate with the University of Oulu researchers on conducting a
field trial for the purpose of collecting research data on their
prototype.



Coordinator: Professor Timo 'Timppa' Ojala, University of Oulu, Finland



Timo Timppa Ojala is a Professor of Computer Science at the
Department of Computer Science and Engineering at the University of
Oulu, Finland. Timppa leads the Urban Computing and Cultures research
group and the UBI (UrBan Interactions) research program that have
conducted a longitudinal and multidisciplinary study of ubiquitous
computing systems with real users in authentic urban setting at the
Open UBI Oulu civic laboratory deployed at downtown Oulu. This in the
wild exploration commenced over ten years ago and has imposed a
visible and lasting change on the Oulu cityscape in form of the
city-wide panOULU WLAN network providing open and free wireless
Internet access to the general public, and the UBI-hotspots, the
network of large interactive public 

Re: [realXtend] Potential EU H2020 project to further develop cyber-physical environments for learning (CYPLE)

[Toni Alatalo]

Greetings and thanks for info!

Sounds interesting -- perhaps there are some possible partners here.
Feel free to mention your interest here too if you want but of course
fine too if only contact and proceed privately etc.

One note: we'll be adding at least basic audio support to the web
client in the foreseeable future (have promised it in the FIWARE
context).

Good luck with the effort an thanks again for noting here :)

~Toni

On Thu, Feb 12, 2015 at 12:51 PM, Tarmo Toikkanen
tarmo.toikka...@gmail.com wrote:
 Hi all! I work at Aalto University and we're cobbling together a consortium
 for an H2020 call that will look at furthering the state-of-art in virtual
 environments. This means 3D immersive environments with proper soundscapes,
 physical walking around the environment, 3D glasses, interacting with the
 environment, and so on.

 If someone from the RealXtend community might be interested in participating
 as an SME, please contact me directly at tarmo.toikkanen ät aalto.fi with
 subject like CYPLE SME collaboration and I can give you more information.
 The project plan is still being molded, so you have the chance to affect
 what will be done. But certainly pedagogical understanding of really
 meaningful learning is an essential, and capabilities in producing virtual
 environments (design, graphics, implementation) are a valuable asset to
 have.

 Cheers!

 --
 Tarmo Toikkanen
 http://legroup.aalto.fi

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Fri 12 (Re: [realXtend] realXtend association annual meet)

[Toni Alatalo]

closed the doodle now too, it showed Fri 12 as the only time that suited 
everyone who put an entry

---
I have picked Friday, April 4, 2014 12:00 PM (Time zone: Helsinki) as final 
option(s) for the Doodle poll realXtend association members' meet.

Follow this link to open the poll:
http://doodle.com/3f4ww5uk2f9xdxuy
--

Cheers,
~Toni

On 24 Mar 2014, at 16:59, Toni Alatalo t...@playsign.net wrote:

 Looks like Fri as I commented in the doodle. Please come Antti! :)
 
 Lähetetty iPhonesta
 
 Antti Ilomäki antti.ilom...@gmail.com kirjoitti Mar 23, 2014 kello 11:42 PM:
 
 Was there an agreement on the meeting time?
 
 
 2014-03-09 12:39 GMT+02:00 Toni Alatalo t...@playsign.net:
 Greetings - first the main point:
 
 let's have an official members' meeting for the realXtend association. As 
 usual in assoc. annual meets the agenda is to agree on the main principles 
 and select the board to execute the operations. I propose we'd meet in a bit 
 over two weeks, first days of April - candidate times are in the doodle: 
 http://doodle.com/3f4ww5uk2f9xdxuy . So please mark your interest to 
 participate  suitable times there!
 
 Some background: realXtend is organised so that people and companies 
 developing and using the tech have the association as a tool to coordinate 
 the collaboration and to propose development targets for the realXtend 
 foundation. The association is open for anyone to join and much of the 
 discussions are on these mailing lists and especially the IRC channel 
 #realxtend-dev. The association does not have any money nor projects itself, 
 it just is the collaboration talks and the actual dev on github etc. Earlier 
 we had monthly live meets and now, during the FI-WARE EU project where most 
 of the companies around realXtend participate (and get funded), we've had 
 bi-weekly Oulu face-to-face technical meetings where often also generic 
 realXtend tech dev targets have been agreed on.
 
 The foundation, on the other hand, exists to own and protect the name and 
 fund selected development activities. Juha Hulkko is the chairman and City 
 of Oulu is the other founder. Now the concrete need for the association to 
 organise more formally is exactly to make a proposal for the foundation 
 funding for this year.
 
 Also, in the tech meets and in fi-ware we only have the base tech platform 
 parties (Admino, Ludocraft, Playsign, Cyberlightning, CIE) whereas for the 
 development targets we need voices from the utilisation front: Spinningwire, 
 Oulu3D, Evocons, UKI-Arkkitehdit, Finnpeda, Aalto Univ., Univ. Oulu's 
 infra-project etc. who work directly with end customers and focus on 
 applications only, don't dev the base techs directly at all. In this annual 
 meet and following association board meets the focus is not on tech first 
 but on business level needs. So please feel welcome.
 
 I propose to meet at the Mäkelininkatu 15 street level 'realxtend space' 
 (it's a common lobby / kitchen / work space between Playsign's basement and 
 Adminotech's upstairs :) where we've had also the fi-ware meets usually, 
 with the option of having e.g. a Meshmoon meeting space open for notes and 
 remote participants if needed. Last time we met virtually using reX techs 
 and it worked great but is nice to have meatspace meets too.
 
 Cheers,
 ~Toni
 
 P.S. I'll post a status update of the Web clients soon (within days) to the 
 realxtend.org blog. Short version is that the situation is great because 
 they work: anyone can visit Meshmoon scenes using WebRocket on 
 http://www.meshmoon.com, and anyone can dev realXtend i.e. multiuser 3d apps 
 using WebTundra and host them anywhere on the Web using 
 https://github.com/realXtend/WebTundra (the dev branch is made to a new 
 release soon and recommended, 
 https://github.com/realXtend/WebTundra/tree/dev) . Three.js, WebGL and 
 browsers in general keep developing nicely (Chrome on Android has WebGL 
 enabled by default, Internet Explorer has it in the new version etc). But 
 more about that soon.
 
 --
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 http://www.realxtend.org
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Re: [realXtend] realXtend association annual meet

[Toni Alatalo]

Looks like Fri as I commented in the doodle. Please come Antti! :)

Lähetetty iPhonesta

 Antti Ilomäki antti.ilom...@gmail.com kirjoitti Mar 23, 2014 kello 11:42 PM:
 
 Was there an agreement on the meeting time?
 
 
 2014-03-09 12:39 GMT+02:00 Toni Alatalo t...@playsign.net:
 Greetings - first the main point:
 
 let's have an official members' meeting for the realXtend association. As 
 usual in assoc. annual meets the agenda is to agree on the main principles 
 and select the board to execute the operations. I propose we'd meet in a bit 
 over two weeks, first days of April - candidate times are in the doodle: 
 http://doodle.com/3f4ww5uk2f9xdxuy . So please mark your interest to 
 participate  suitable times there!
 
 Some background: realXtend is organised so that people and companies 
 developing and using the tech have the association as a tool to coordinate 
 the collaboration and to propose development targets for the realXtend 
 foundation. The association is open for anyone to join and much of the 
 discussions are on these mailing lists and especially the IRC channel 
 #realxtend-dev. The association does not have any money nor projects itself, 
 it just is the collaboration talks and the actual dev on github etc. Earlier 
 we had monthly live meets and now, during the FI-WARE EU project where most 
 of the companies around realXtend participate (and get funded), we've had 
 bi-weekly Oulu face-to-face technical meetings where often also generic 
 realXtend tech dev targets have been agreed on.
 
 The foundation, on the other hand, exists to own and protect the name and 
 fund selected development activities. Juha Hulkko is the chairman and City 
 of Oulu is the other founder. Now the concrete need for the association to 
 organise more formally is exactly to make a proposal for the foundation 
 funding for this year.
 
 Also, in the tech meets and in fi-ware we only have the base tech platform 
 parties (Admino, Ludocraft, Playsign, Cyberlightning, CIE) whereas for the 
 development targets we need voices from the utilisation front: Spinningwire, 
 Oulu3D, Evocons, UKI-Arkkitehdit, Finnpeda, Aalto Univ., Univ. Oulu's 
 infra-project etc. who work directly with end customers and focus on 
 applications only, don't dev the base techs directly at all. In this annual 
 meet and following association board meets the focus is not on tech first 
 but on business level needs. So please feel welcome.
 
 I propose to meet at the Mäkelininkatu 15 street level 'realxtend space' 
 (it's a common lobby / kitchen / work space between Playsign's basement and 
 Adminotech's upstairs :) where we've had also the fi-ware meets usually, 
 with the option of having e.g. a Meshmoon meeting space open for notes and 
 remote participants if needed. Last time we met virtually using reX techs 
 and it worked great but is nice to have meatspace meets too.
 
 Cheers,
 ~Toni
 
 P.S. I'll post a status update of the Web clients soon (within days) to the 
 realxtend.org blog. Short version is that the situation is great because 
 they work: anyone can visit Meshmoon scenes using WebRocket on 
 http://www.meshmoon.com, and anyone can dev realXtend i.e. multiuser 3d apps 
 using WebTundra and host them anywhere on the Web using 
 https://github.com/realXtend/WebTundra (the dev branch is made to a new 
 release soon and recommended, 
 https://github.com/realXtend/WebTundra/tree/dev) . Three.js, WebGL and 
 browsers in general keep developing nicely (Chrome on Android has WebGL 
 enabled by default, Internet Explorer has it in the new version etc). But 
 more about that soon.
 
 --
 --
 http://groups.google.com/group/realxtend
 http://www.realxtend.org
 ---
 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
 realXtend group.
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 -- 
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[realXtend] realXtend association annual meet

[Toni Alatalo]

Greetings - first the main point:

let's have an official members' meeting for the realXtend association. As usual 
in assoc. annual meets the agenda is to agree on the main principles and select 
the board to execute the operations. I propose we'd meet in a bit over two 
weeks, first days of April - candidate times are in the doodle: 
http://doodle.com/3f4ww5uk2f9xdxuy . So please mark your interest to 
participate  suitable times there!

Some background: realXtend is organised so that people and companies developing 
and using the tech have the association as a tool to coordinate the 
collaboration and to propose development targets for the realXtend foundation. 
The association is open for anyone to join and much of the discussions are on 
these mailing lists and especially the IRC channel #realxtend-dev. The 
association does not have any money nor projects itself, it just is the 
collaboration talks and the actual dev on github etc. Earlier we had monthly 
live meets and now, during the FI-WARE EU project where most of the companies 
around realXtend participate (and get funded), we've had bi-weekly Oulu 
face-to-face technical meetings where often also generic realXtend tech dev 
targets have been agreed on.

The foundation, on the other hand, exists to own and protect the name and fund 
selected development activities. Juha Hulkko is the chairman and City of Oulu 
is the other founder. Now the concrete need for the association to organise 
more formally is exactly to make a proposal for the foundation funding for this 
year.

Also, in the tech meets and in fi-ware we only have the base tech platform 
parties (Admino, Ludocraft, Playsign, Cyberlightning, CIE) whereas for the 
development targets we need voices from the utilisation front: Spinningwire, 
Oulu3D, Evocons, UKI-Arkkitehdit, Finnpeda, Aalto Univ., Univ. Oulu's 
infra-project etc. who work directly with end customers and focus on 
applications only, don't dev the base techs directly at all. In this annual 
meet and following association board meets the focus is not on tech first but 
on business level needs. So please feel welcome.

I propose to meet at the Mäkelininkatu 15 street level 'realxtend space' (it's 
a common lobby / kitchen / work space between Playsign's basement and 
Adminotech's upstairs :) where we've had also the fi-ware meets usually, with 
the option of having e.g. a Meshmoon meeting space open for notes and remote 
participants if needed. Last time we met virtually using reX techs and it 
worked great but is nice to have meatspace meets too.

Cheers,
~Toni

P.S. I'll post a status update of the Web clients soon (within days) to the 
realxtend.org blog. Short version is that the situation is great because they 
work: anyone can visit Meshmoon scenes using WebRocket on 
http://www.meshmoon.com, and anyone can dev realXtend i.e. multiuser 3d apps 
using WebTundra and host them anywhere on the Web using 
https://github.com/realXtend/WebTundra (the dev branch is made to a new release 
soon and recommended, https://github.com/realXtend/WebTundra/tree/dev) . 
Three.js, WebGL and browsers in general keep developing nicely (Chrome on 
Android has WebGL enabled by default, Internet Explorer has it in the new 
version etc). But more about that soon.

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[realXtend] off-topic: Playsign's Wizard Quest now in Appstore

[Toni Alatalo]

Hi, and apologies for abusing the list for an off-topic shameless self 
promotion! I hope it is interesting enough :)

Our first mobile game Wizard Quest is now finally available world-wide in the 
iOS Appstore, for a special $1 price as a part of the launch campaign. See the 
website for more info, including gameplay videos etc: http://www.managiant.com/ 
(Mana Giant is Playsign's daughter company for game publishing).

It is a single player game (albeit with shared leaderboard) and 2d so does not 
utilize realXtend technologies currently. We are still planning on making the 
next version multiplayer (at least async, if not realtime (yet)) and looking 
forward to benefitting from the realXtend platform then. 

In fact as a part of the EU FI-WARE work we've made a minimal test game with 
the web client techs, a n-player Pong, which we use to verify that realXtend is 
fit for our arcade style action games. It is also documented as a tutorial for 
multiplayer game making, we'll get to publish that doc soon as it's now being 
reviewed by the EU project folks. So more info of that soon, for the impatient 
there's already a standalone single player + multiplayer peer-to-peer (with 
WebRTC) version on-line at 
http://playsign.tklapp.com:8000/PongThreeJS/Pong.html, video of that in 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XR05_6kh5Dw and the codes in 
https://github.com/playsign/PongThreeJS (the port of the original proto to 
Tundra server  WebTundra client is in the 'ec' branch there, we'll put a demo 
of that up once get a public Tundra server hosted suitably). 

In the meantime iOS device owners please do enjoy our epic puzzle wizard spell 
action! (we've also tested Android builds but those are not ready yet)

Cheers,
~Toni

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Re: [realXtend] Utilization of semantic data in realXtend

[Toni Alatalo]

On Oct 18, 2013, at 3:20 PM, Jari Kahelin kahelin.j...@gmail.com wrote:
 I'm pretty new to realXtend and virtual world platforms generally. I started 
 in a research project short time ago which relates to usage of semantic data 
 in virtual world platforms. Reading through the realXtend documentation and 
 testing the platform myself, it seems that there is not a way to add metadata 
 to the objects nor reflect the relationships between the objects.

In Tundra you can add arbitrary data to objects easily using the 
DynamicComponent component type, 
http://doc.meshmoon.com/doxygen/webrocket/classes/tundra.EC_DynamicComponent.html

For a specific type of custom data you can also create a new EC type and define 
a static set of attributes for that. This is currently only possibly with C++ 
code but perhaps in the future we'll provide easier means for that too (like 
just declaring the type with a JSON declaration or via some JS API).

 Jari

~Toni

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[realXtend] Blender gets funding for game authoring dev from Valve Steam Workshop (Fw: [Bf-committers] Valve Steam Workshop donations - 2 devs get hired)

[toni]

Great news! Also for many realXtend users who use Blender to create.


~Toni



From: Ton Roosendaal
Sent: Wednesday, September 11, 2013 12:22 PM
To: bf-blender developers

Hi all,

Thanks to the first Steam Workshop donation payment, we can now invest quality 
developer time for getting Blender work better in game creation pipelines. I'm 
happy to announce that Blender developers Dalai Felinto and Bastien Montagne 
have accepted a 6 month contract to work half-time on supporting game artists! 
Their contract will become effective this week.

First thing Dalai and Bastien will do is investigate with artists out there 
(via Steam Workshop too) a nice priority list of topics to handle. This will be 
publicly reviewed in our many channels and become part of the weekly meetings 
in irc too.

Valve expects that Steam Workshop is going to be earning us a sizeable share. 
We'll learn more about this during the next months though. But if this 
continues, more projects for developers can be funded this way. Main focus will 
be on good tools for game artists though, including features that benefit 
everyone well too. This also opens up an opportunity to realize a bigger 
project related to our Game Engine. That's something we'll discuss with the 
current GE team first though.

Exciting times ahead! Many many thanks to Valve and to the Steam Workshop 
members who decided to support Blender Foundation this way!

Also posted on code blog:
http://code.blender.org/index.php/2013/09/valve-steam-workshop-donations-2-devs-get-hired/

-Ton-


Ton Roosendaal  -  t...@blender.org   -   www.blender.org
Chairman Blender Foundation - Producer Blender Institute
Entrepotdok 57A  -  1018AD Amsterdam  -  The Netherlands



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[realXtend] Opensim conference: reX proposal load testing (Fwd: [Opensim-dev] OpenSimulator Community Conference Needs Participants for Grid Load Test 7/2/13 @ Noon PDT)

[Toni Alatalo]

Hi,

Opensimulator folks are organizing 1st community conference in early
September, in-world on Opensimulator itself -- I find that's a great
idea.

I just submitted a proposal from a realXtend point of view, let's see
whether they find it appropriate or not (i.e. whether it is about
opensim or not):
https://github.com/realXtend/doc/blob/master/opensim2013/submission.txt

They organize a load test today for the grid where plan to host the
conference - I'm gonna be on the night train to Helsinki so probably
can't join but if some of you have a chance please do help them to get
load..

Generic info about the conf is at
http://conference.opensimulator.org/

Cheers,
~Toni

-- Forwarded message --
From: Fleep Tuque fleep...@gmail.com
Date: Mon, Jul 1, 2013 at 2:46 PM
Subject: [Opensim-dev] OpenSimulator Community Conference Needs
Participants for Grid Load Test 7/2/13 @ Noon PDT
To: opensim-us...@lists.berlios.de, opensim-...@lists.berlios.de,
Opensim Educators Mailing List educat...@list.opensim-edu.org


Hi folks,


We are planning a large-scale load test of the OpenSimulator Community
Conference grid on Tuesday, July 2, 2013 at Noon PDT and we need
members of the community to help push the conference grid to its
limits to test the capacity and performance of the simulator software
and hardware.


Anyone interested in the conference or the OpenSimulator software is
welcome to participate in the load test by making a jump from any
other hypergrid enabled OpenSimulator grid.  The focus of this load
test will be fitting as many hypergrid participants on the keynote
regions of the conference grid as possible.


The OpenSimulator Community Conference grid is located in the
7000,7000 coordinate range, and the four keynote regions we’ll be
testing are:


cc.opensimulator.org:8002:Keynote 1

cc.opensimulator.org:8002:Keynote 2

cc.opensimulator.org:8002:Keynote 3

cc.opensimulator.org:8002:Keynote 4


If you find that the first region you try is full please use the next
address on the list and so on.


For the purposes of this load test, feel free to log in with multiple
avatars, but please do not use bots, pcampbots, or other various
libomv based viewers since we are trying to test the conference grid
under conditions as close to the actual conference as possible.  We
recommend a Third Party Viewer that can support voice and mesh, such
as Singularity, Firestorm, or Kokua.


Instructions if you already have a Hypergrid enabled account


If you already have an account on another OpenSimulator grid that is
hypergrid enabled, here are the steps to participate in the load test
on Tuesday:


1.  Log into your account on your hypergrid enabled grid.


2.  If necessary, navigate to a jump region that can reach a
destination in the 7000,7000 coordinate range.  OSGrid provides public
jump regions for this purpose, see the list at
http://www.osgrid.org/index.php/hypergrid.


3.  Open your map and search for one of the following destination regions:


cc.opensimulator.org:8002:Keynote 1

cc.opensimulator.org:8002:Keynote 2

cc.opensimulator.org:8002:Keynote 3

cc.opensimulator.org:8002:Keynote 4


4.  The map search should locate the destination region on the map,
then click the Teleport button.  If you find that the first region you
try is full please use the next address on the list and so on.


Instructions if you need a Hypergrid enabled account


If you don’t already have an account on another OpenSimulator grid
that is hypergrid enabled, here are the steps to participate in the
load test on Tuesday:


1.  Create an account on OSGrid at
http://www.osgrid.org/index.php/auth/register.


2.  Download a TPV viewer supported by OSGrid from
http://www.osgrid.org/index.php/downloads and log into your account.


3.  Open your map and search for one of the following destination regions:


cc.opensimulator.org:8002:Keynote 1

cc.opensimulator.org:8002:Keynote 2

cc.opensimulator.org:8002:Keynote 3

cc.opensimulator.org:8002:Keynote 4


4.  The map search should locate the destination region on the map,
then click the Teleport button.  If you find that the first region you
try is full please use the next address on the list and so on.


Thanks in advance for your help and we look forward to seeing a big
crowd on Tuesday!



- Chris/Fleep




Chris M. Collins (Avatar: Fleep Tuque)

Vice President, AvaCon, Inc.

275 Winthrop Street

PO Box 618

Rehoboth, MA 02769-1819

(774) 654-0010

i...@avacon.org

http://avacon.org


AvaCon, Inc. is a 501(c)(3) non-profit organization dedicated to
promoting the growth, enhancement, and development of the metaverse,
virtual worlds, augmented reality, and 3D immersive and virtual
spaces. We hold conventions and meetings to promote educational and
scientific inquiry into these spaces, and to support organized fan
activities, including performances, lectures, art, music, machinima,
and much more. Our primary goal is to connect and support the diverse
communities and practitioners

[realXtend] a vw plat liking vote (Fw: [Opensim-users] Vote for OpenSim!)

[toni]

I figure is only fair to inform about this here too 





From: Alan Miller
Sent: ‎Thursday‎, ‎June‎ ‎6‎, ‎2013 ‎5‎:‎32‎ ‎PM
To: opensim-...@lists.berlios.de
Cc: opensim-us...@lists.berlios.de



@ immersive education :

 

http://europe.immersiveeducation.org/poll

 

Alan

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[realXtend] visiting Northern California, a new article about Tundra API

[toni]

Hi,


I’m traveling now to visit Northern California, mainly to attend a Software 
Engineering conference in San Francisco (ICSE), so thought to mention it here 
in case someone lives in the area and would like to meet to discuss realXtend, 
VWs, networked games etc.


Also, for more general interest, my article there is about the Tundra API, 
about a way to compare it regarding ease of development for networked games -- 
the final pre-print version is online now at  
https://github.com/realXtend/doc/raw/master/api_complexity/icsews13gas-preprint.pdf
 . Idea is to continue from that towards an enhanced API and/or toolset (e.g. a 
visual logic authoring tool, Ari Okkonen already presented one that he’d made 
recently) to improve ease of dev further.



I will also visit Stanford to meet with the Sirikata folks there, probably on 
Monday afternoon. Just for a free form discussion about the state and dev plans 
around realXtend and Sirikata, there’s no tight agenda. 


There’s a time gap between the game dev workshop (http://2013.gasworkshop.org/) 
where I’m presenting on this Saturday and the main conference which begins next 
Wednesday so I have free time for example on Tuesday if someone would like to 
meet. Also this week before Sat or on Sunday suits well.


Cheers,

~Toni


BTW: although I certainly don’t mind the destination, this is a very 
unfortunate time to leave Oulu .. the spring is getting really nice in Northern 
Finland now, leaves just about to pop out in the trees and warm weather coming 
for the weekend *sigh* .. so those you get to stay, do enjoy!  (it’s like 
summer but no mosquitos yet, the nights are pretty bright already too)

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[realXtend] avatar sitting as an optimization (Fw: [Opensim-dev] Load test today)

[toni]

Just for info about where the Opensimulator side is with regards to scalability 
and stability for meetings now,

 

and this particular point about sitting as a way to optimize is I think very 
clever and something that we could apply with avatars on realXtend too, no? 
just disable physics when sitting disables movement. IIRC also with Tundra and 
rexmeshmoon AV apps physics has been a bottleneck. I think Opensim adopted 
this from SL.

 

sitting-at-an-airportly yours,

~Toni

 


From: Diva Canto
Sent: Wednesday, May 15, 2013 2:34 AM
To: opensim-...@lists.berlios.de

 
Thanks everyone who came to the load test today. We hit 121 people 
(actual viewers) spread through 4 neighboring regions joined at a 
corner, running on the same server, with practically no chat lag and no 
sim crashes! People were chatting all the way through for 90 minutes.

The goal of these tests is to find out how many people can fit in a 
virtual gathering scenario, so we ask everyone to sit down instead of 
running around. Sitting down not only captures the scenario well, but, 
technically speaking, the avatars are removed from physics, which makes 
the sims not have to work so hard.

The test grid was running the latest code from the dev branch, with no 
additional improvements.There were a few quirks here and there; we'll be 
analyzing the logs in the next few days.

We'll be making a few more of these load tests in the next few months. 
Next time, we'll announce it in advance and more widely.
We would like to reach the 200 people mark soon!

Diva
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[realXtend] FW: [Opensim-users] Opensim and accessibility by non-technical end users

[toni]

Started thinking about this as one of the selling points of Naali was that it 
was a simple GUI / viewer to very basic SL-like / opensim func, and made for 
customizability (the same stuff that has lived on in Tundra since, i.e. you can 
make fully custom UIs in js/py etc.).

 

And use of meshes and web things are solid in current Tundra (MOAP == Media On 
A Prim ~= EC_WebView and friends, EC_MediaPlayer (VLC in Tundra) etc.).

 

Will think if will reply something -- also how that goes with SL viewers (those 
also use qt, dunno, perhaps some has customizable UI / simple clean code 
facilitating making UI mods nowadays .. am looking forward to learning in that 
thread).

 

just for info for now,

~Toni


From: Michel DENIS michel.m.de...@gmail.com
Sent: March 20, 2013 7:41 PM
To: opensim-us...@lists.berlios.de
Subject: [Opensim-users] Opensim and accessibility by non-technical end users


 
(cross-posted at a few places)

Hello,

We are setting up a server for enterprises and education, which will contain 
several models and applications, and will use both meshes and MOAP-based media 
and web entries.
While advanced users (admin and build) would use powerfull traditional Viewers 
in their native forms, the choice of default Viewer(s) is not easy for 
non-technical users/visitors.

These Viewer(s) should be:
- simple and user-friendly, straightforward to understand, configure and use
- modern in their look and manipulations

What would/do you use in such case ?

Thanks in advance for your feedback and advices,
-michel 

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Description: Binary data

RE: [realXtend] reX assoc board meet: focus on creation tools

[toni]

A couple little hopefully clarifying points:

 

I think what Peter meant with porting and Jonne with rewriting is the same 
thing.. taking ideas and implementing them on Tundra, i.e. porting to Tundra. 
Possibly abstract logic code could be reused within some functionality, for 
example in a camera animation math code or game AI logic rules or so. Benefits 
of Tundra being reportedly nicer arch and code structure, ECs vs. using 
inheritance hierarchies for the functionalities etc .. the core mechanics on 
which the features would be rewritten. It sure is encouraging and nice that an 
outside evaluator who has studied sources of both softwares makes that proposal 


 

About reX scope  Tundra Core etc: certainly we are not changing the definition 
of Tundra core, fancy editors and asset libraries etc. are definitely not part 
of the core (as in the core APIs, ‘the purple box’, the non-optional parts of 
Tundra SDK) and at least if they are large or custom, not part of the SDK and 
the default distribution either. 

 

In an extreme case, if we’d decide to pursue a complex e.g. a 
one-click-app-creator within realXtend, it could well be e.g. a separate 
project with an own repo and all .. for example an optional Tundra plugin which 
could be bundled in some ‘creator release’, but which would not be necessary in 
a minimal end user client used to visit scenes. A port of Ogitor to be a Tundra 
plugin would certainly fit in this category I think, as a fork tracking the 
original Ogitor repo perhaps.

 

I just want to keep it clear how realXtend assoc. activities and Tundra core  
SDK scope can be different things, it is up to us to decide where we think 
cooperation and some common public effort would be most useful.

 

That said, in the meeting I found that shaders were one concrete 
content-centric topic which seems nice and simple, and which can help almost 
everyone to create more things easier. The current SuperShader and other 
bundled shaders for e.g. the parallel split shadows etc. are in all releases, 
are basically always assumed to be there, is ‘core’ in that sense (whereas 
technically they are more just arbitrary scene content) -- if there are clear 
needs for improvement in that department it could make a nice little project. 
Of course they don’t help anything alone, if no one knows how to create a new 
scene or app, but as one piece for the puzzle. One relieving point about 
shaders is that they are at least somewhat engine agnostic, AFAIK same GLSL can 
run in Ogre and WebGL and whatever other engine (well, at least when using 
opengl.. but that’s a different discussion).

 

I’d like the creation focused track to continue as planned, with Ludo and 
Spinningwire/ENER etc. art folks gathering requirements for their professional 
work etc., and Admino informing about your needs. BTW Jonne it was originally 
Tommi from Admino who said that new content examples and something to help 
content creation would be the most important thing for reX now 

 

But definitely docs and tutorials etc. are so important, obviously related to 
ease of creation too, that must be top priority. I don’t know yet how to 
organize that work but I think will talk with Kari, perhaps he has ideas how to 
get some funded doc project going. Last year I tried to get some university 
folks at the dept. of information processing sciences (software engineering 
etc) who work with people in the informatics department (library etc folks on 
the humanist side) to do some reX document work but haven’t heard anything 
back. Perhaps useful for long term, but for a quick fix we need something 
simpler .. a little project for some company and/or just doing more tutos and 
docs in our free time.

 

~Toni

 

From: Jonne Nauha
Sent: ‎January‎ ‎9‎, ‎2013 ‎11‎:‎11‎ ‎PM
To: realxtend@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [realXtend] reX assoc board meet: focus on creation tools


you point to code/sceenshots to get some kind of idea? I doubt there is any 
porting to be done, its a completely different beast without all of our 
dependencies/libraries/frameworks. Features/ideas can be copied (if they apply 
to the Tundra idelogy) but they will probably need to be rewritten from 
scratch.


I think we can however agree rex project should focus on documentation and 
examples (both c++ and javascript). Content creation tools can also be on the 
table, but as we have talked numerous times (in the issue tracker) Peter it 
might not be in the Tundra SDK scope to have fancy editors and ship certain 
kinds of 3D assets with it. Maybe we need to adjust that purity goal, I don't 
know. I would like to see the assets at least in a different repo if this 
happens and move /bin/scenes and parts of /bin/media there too.




I think many of the end user problems with Tundra come from that we are a very 
programmer oriented thing. You can't do much with Tundra if you don't know how 
to code or are willing to look at some headers. This can partly be solved

RE: [realXtend] reX assoc board meet: focus on creation tools

[toni]

Hi, just for info that I edited the notes from the meeting to be clearer, 
structured a bit and set headings for sections etc. - also added the note about 
focus on game dev which was discussed here.

 

Separated background discussion etc. from actual decisions more clearly.

 

~Toni

 


 The full notes with some additional points are in
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1IqS7Z9WUy_7jt753oSnt3HE0ISQXhT4zstP71A_6FKY/edit

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Re: [realXtend] reX assoc board meet: focus on creation tools

[Toni Alatalo]

On Wed, 2013-01-09 at 10:22 -0500, Peter C wrote:
 Just a few suggestions / things to note.

Thanks - quick comments:
 
 1. Even if the primary intent is not games, it would be wise to
 develop with the same performance mindset of a game engine. Long term
 viability as a platform requires keeping up with tech.

We certainly keep that up -- both Ludocraft and Playsign are games
companies, the requirements from us (e.g. Ludo's old creation tool doc,
the mobile tundra plan etc) are largely from games dev perspective).

Sometimes it is more difficult for us to get a good understanding of the
*other* requirements, other apps besides games :)

If you are referring to the remark in the google doc, it tries to say
that reX is essentially about *networked multiplayer games* (or other
multiuser apps) out of the box, is inherently networked, whereas e.g.
Unity3D was originally for single player games (though has many mature
ways to do networking nowadays with 3rd party addons and has basics
builtin too).

 2. It might be wise to try porting ogitor to run inside realXtend. If
 nothing else make an exporter from ogitor to tundra. It may also be
 wise to look at how torque has their dcc set up. 

Yes we looked at Ogitor back in the early days when considering options,
I was repeatedly showing it to the guys in sprint meetings etc .. and
read some of their code when considering editing things in Naali/Tundra
etc.

Both Tundra and Ogitor support the old simple Ogre dotscene format so
they might be interoperable already, i.e. you might be able to import
Ogitor authored scenes to Tundra. When I tried dotscene things in Ogitor
0.3 some 2-3(?) years ago, though, got only some crash then, dunno about
the status of dotscene vs. their own format there -- certainly worth a
new look, it always has seemed like a good project.
 
 3. It may be a good idea to look at porting torques functionality to
 tundra. I was recently doing research on torque, and they have a
 massive community, but their architecture is really bad. Don't count
 out game developers as a possible audience. If you were to outreach to
 game developers, and they were to get involved in improving the game
 engine side of things, it would benefit the academic side too. Games
 tend to be one of the biggest driving forces of technology. 

Yes, I actually tested it for some reason last year a little and thought
there were nice things, certainly also worth more study.

Scripting / Logic authoring has been my pet peeve for long, and still
kind of sold with the Scratch design for very simple things at least
(for kids and non-programmers), and both Google Blockly and Waterbear
would seem to allow it nicely for Tundra-JS.

Do you have some things in specific in mind about Torque, does it cover
everything a bit like Unity, dealing with assets etc? I'm recalling the
game maker things with events and states and something for logic etc,
hopefully have time for a study soon enough (or someone else has).

~Toni
 
 Cheers, 
 Peter 
 
 t...@playsign.net wrote:
 Hi,
  
 we had a semiofficial(*) realXtend association board meeting
 yesterday, mostly to discuss and organize further planning on
 development roadmap for the new year.
  
 My full notes are on-line, main point summarized here: We
 decided to plan work on two fronts, creation tools and
 pipelines coming as a new primary focus. The other area is the
 tech platform  engines topic which was already worked on a
 lot last already (the realXtend roadmap doc from last spring
 discusses the three areas there, i.e. current Tundra, browser
 based clients and the Mobile Tundra unified light client
 idea).
  
 For the creation tools and pipeline we agreed to gather
 wishes, requirements and development proposals and meet again
 on Thursday next week (17th)  to put together a plan.
 Ludocraft made one report on this already ages ago, they’ll
 check if parts of it are still valid. Francois will talk with
 Matteo and Francois from Spinningwire and ENER labs.
 Adminotech has some concrete needs, I think largely coming
 from VW use in education. I think Evocons at least can tell
 what they need in their work with the building industry.
  
 You, anyone, can also use this chance to inform the planning:
 what would you need to be able to create applications, worlds
 or whatever with realXtend better, or is that even a
 bottleneck for you now? Even vague ideas are welcome but the
 more concrete a plan the better of course.
  
 Some things discussed in the meeting: more example assets for
 e.g. use of different materials / options of the SuperShader,
 creating a new shader library. Better scene/ec editor with
 grouping etc. A question: is tighter Blender integration

Re: [realXtend] reX assoc board meet: focus on creation tools

[Toni Alatalo]

On Wed, 2013-01-09 at 13:30 -0500, Peter C. wrote:
 In regards to the game dev aspect: I'm sorry if that came off the wrong
 way, it was just the google doc read a little more like this is an
 academic project, the focus is on professional use and not games, end of
 story. Sorry if I misinterpreted that. Also, in regards to Ogitor, I

Right, well it's me who has to be sorry for writing it too unclearly
there I'm afraid.

Actually the strategy we hope to drive now in the research cooperation
with the university here etc. is that out of the academic work we would
get concrete improvements to the tech which would really help e.g. game
creation.

 was thinking more build some sort of plug-in that would allow for using
 Ogitor functionality in Tundra as an in-scene editor. Also, for torque,

Right, that's what I was also wondering early on -- especially because
also Ogitor uses Qt like Tundra does, might be possible to somehow hook
Ogitor to be a Tundra plugin or something even (but not totally
straightfoward, because Ogitor uses the Ogre API directly, whereas to
integrate in Tundra nicely it'd need to be ported to the Tundra API
which wraps Ogre).

 I have to do some more research in to it, however the main two things
 that come to mind are possibly implementing the ability to easily
 transition from Torque to Tundra. The main problem I see with Torque is
 it is based on the old multiple inheritance methods, and is a pain to
 work with when you start needing custom functionality. There are

Right - the entity-component model in Tundra has certainly proven to be
a nice strong point, has served great for extensibility in practice, is
easy to understand I think etc.

 easy inter-op. Ideally it would be a collaboration between the RealXtend
 association and GarageGames to create the best of both worlds, but I
 doubt that would happen. If nothing else, my main concern would be the
 need to implement similar DCC as torque's editor in to RealXtend, along

Interesting - it might be a far call, but it is also good to brainstorm
with an open mind sometimes.

BTW didn't they open source something recently, was it torque3d runtime
or what?

 I think that the primary things that RealXtend could benefit from would
 be better documentation of how to develop for it beyond basic scripting

Agreed. As you noted, Meshmoon docs helped already, but certainly much
is still urgently needed.

I think we need tech dev too but certainly creating those docs must be
somehow organized finally.

 out to places like Ogre, and having an Ogre wiki page and link to
 realxtend in the Ogre wiki for 3rd party projects using Ogre, would

*nod* -- I think the time is certainly ripe to submit Tundra as a
candidate featured project for the Ogre site. Feel free to do it, anyone
basically, but I think I must if no one else beats me to it (should not
be hard..)

Thanks again for the good points and welcome reminders (I wasn't
recalling Ogitor and Torque too clearly at all, have been quite occupied
with many other things recently too).

~Toni

 On 01/09/2013 01:05 PM, Toni Alatalo wrote:
  On Wed, 2013-01-09 at 10:22 -0500, Peter C wrote:
  Just a few suggestions / things to note.
  Thanks - quick comments:
  1. Even if the primary intent is not games, it would be wise to
  develop with the same performance mindset of a game engine. Long term
  viability as a platform requires keeping up with tech.
  We certainly keep that up -- both Ludocraft and Playsign are games
  companies, the requirements from us (e.g. Ludo's old creation tool doc,
  the mobile tundra plan etc) are largely from games dev perspective).
 
  Sometimes it is more difficult for us to get a good understanding of the
  *other* requirements, other apps besides games :)
 
  If you are referring to the remark in the google doc, it tries to say
  that reX is essentially about *networked multiplayer games* (or other
  multiuser apps) out of the box, is inherently networked, whereas e.g.
  Unity3D was originally for single player games (though has many mature
  ways to do networking nowadays with 3rd party addons and has basics
  builtin too).
 
  2. It might be wise to try porting ogitor to run inside realXtend. If
  nothing else make an exporter from ogitor to tundra. It may also be
  wise to look at how torque has their dcc set up. 
  Yes we looked at Ogitor back in the early days when considering options,
  I was repeatedly showing it to the guys in sprint meetings etc .. and
  read some of their code when considering editing things in Naali/Tundra
  etc.
 
  Both Tundra and Ogitor support the old simple Ogre dotscene format so
  they might be interoperable already, i.e. you might be able to import
  Ogitor authored scenes to Tundra. When I tried dotscene things in Ogitor
  0.3 some 2-3(?) years ago, though, got only some crash then, dunno about
  the status of dotscene vs. their own format there -- certainly worth a
  new look, it always has seemed like a good project.
  3. It may

[realXtend] reX assoc board meet: focus on creation tools

[toni]

Hi,

 

we had a semiofficial(*) realXtend association board meeting yesterday, mostly 
to discuss and organize further planning on development roadmap for the new 
year.

 

My full notes are on-line, main point summarized here: We decided to plan work 
on two fronts, creation tools and pipelines coming as a new primary focus. The 
other area is the tech platform  engines topic which was already worked on a 
lot last already (the realXtend roadmap doc from last spring discusses the 
three areas there, i.e. current Tundra, browser based clients and the Mobile 
Tundra unified light client idea).

 

For the creation tools and pipeline we agreed to gather wishes, requirements 
and development proposals and meet again on Thursday next week (17th)  to put 
together a plan. Ludocraft made one report on this already ages ago, they’ll 
check if parts of it are still valid. Francois will talk with Matteo and 
Francois from Spinningwire and ENER labs. Adminotech has some concrete needs, I 
think largely coming from VW use in education. I think Evocons at least can 
tell what they need in their work with the building industry.

 

You, anyone, can also use this chance to inform the planning: what would you 
need to be able to create applications, worlds or whatever with realXtend 
better, or is that even a bottleneck for you now? Even vague ideas are welcome 
but the more concrete a plan the better of course.

 

Some things discussed in the meeting: more example assets for e.g. use of 
different materials / options of the SuperShader, creating a new shader 
library. Better scene/ec editor with grouping etc. A question: is tighter 
Blender integration, for example with live material preview with a Tundra 
window as demonstrated by blender2ogre, a good way to author or is something 
else better?

 

The full notes with some additional points are in 
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1IqS7Z9WUy_7jt753oSnt3HE0ISQXhT4zstP71A_6FKY/edit
 (not too structured, sorry).

 

I think we can use this mailing list / google group to gather ideas and 
discuss, but am also interested in more structured ways. For example 
getsatisfaction.com has seemed nice for working on feature requests, I think I 
saw Kitely using that long ago and tested creating a realXtend account there 
too, but I don't have any real experience on using that or any other similar 
service. Github issues serve well for actual todo items and feature wishes too 
but I don’t think it suits this kind of requirements elicitation. Am open for 
suggestions, either here or privately.

 

Finally, I’d like to explain a bit the rationale for the focus on creation 
tools as how the common interest focused there surprised me. I have earlier 
thought that there is a big divide between a)professional creators and b) 
supporting easy end user content creation. Basic realXtend offering, e.g. the 
Tundra SDK and the little WebGL and Flash clients, target professional creators 
-- people who are comfortable with normal 3d modeling and programming etc. More 
Second Life or Facebook style end user creation are implemented in custom 
applications, for example the TOY content tools which are a now a part of the 
Meshmoon offering, Cyberslide where you can just create a scene from your 
Powerpoint slides, or Ludocraft’s sandbox. But yesterday the common 
understanding was that there are many things that we could do to help both 
professional creators and services with user created content. Ease of creation 
is of utmost importance in professional use as well as it of course affects 
both the quality and especially the cost duration of projects. Also we figured 
that work on creation tools is relevant in any case, no matter whether we end 
up using Ogre, some other native engine, or WebGL more in the future.

 

so here’s a starting point for the year!

~Toni

 

(*) not everyone in the board could participate yesterday, so we postponed some 
administrative bureaucracy for a later meeting and focused on the dev planning 
work

-- 
http://groups.google.com/group/realxtend
http://www.realxtend.org

Re: [realXtend] Re: interactive web view to server side Tundra rendering

[Toni Alatalo]

On Oct 17, 2012, at 2:53 PM, Lasse Annola wrote:
 said was preferred and launched my apache web server. The server seems to 
 work flawlessly but still no connection when using port 8886. Im now starting 
 to wonder if the tundrahttphandler or
(...)
 it runs the code cos i get the print inside init() in tundrahttphandler.

I think this may be a firewall issue, as the server code runs, but does not 
answer http requests.

Windows has firewalls by default -- I would test either adding Tundra  that 
port to some whitelist there, or simply turning all firewalling off. One way to 
test without firewall safely is to disconnect from Internet first (unplug cable 
or turn off wlan), and then just use the box locally (accessing 127.0.0.1 i.e. 
localhost doesn't require external connectivity). And perhaps do 'run as admin' 
for good measure.

Other possibility is that it is some crossplat issue, as I've tested this on 
Linux only now, but usually Python standard library things (this is built on 
asyncore which is there) work very reliably on all operating systems. I could 
test at least the httpserver part on windows to verify (it can be also ran 
without Tundra as a standalone py server so is easy to test). The old Tundra1 
version of this worked well on win, but that was using a different lib for 
async http (circuits).

 Lasse

~Toni

 On Monday, 15 October 2012 13:27:54 UTC+3, Toni Alatalo wrote:
 On Oct 14, 2012, at 11:59 AM, Lasse Annola wrote:
 Ive got my worldwebview cloned with tundra and the screenshot_server 
 variable is my local ip: 127.0.0.1:8886/renderimg. I don't know should i 
 change that renderimg to something else but i
 
 That 'renderimg' should stay, it is the URL / http get command that the 
 Tundra server has for rendering images (it gets the camera position  
 orientation as parameters, and returns the URL of the resulting image). You 
 can see the tundrahttphandler.py to see how it's implemented if want.
 
 figured its part of the servers functionality so didn't touch anything 
 regarding that. I then copied that file into my apache htdocs folder to have 
 it on my server. Then i changed from tundrahttphandler.py the clienthtml = 
 open(xampp/htdocs/worldwebview.html), for it to find it. Now as i run 
 http://127.0.0.1/worldwebview.html via chrome, it opens the file but ERROR + 
 some placement variables come to the console on the left. I tried opening 
 my firewall but it did not have any effect (trying this locally so it 
 shouldnt anyway). I'm really running out of options here, ill continue by 
 setting everything to default.
 
 Ah there seems to be a little confusion here: you don't need to copy any html 
 to the Apache folder. The system works so that it is *Tundra* itself that 
 replies to the first http requests, not Apache. This is why you access 
 http://127.0.0.1:8886/client and not the default port -- that Tundra http 
 handler listens to port 8886 by default. What you say above works if you have 
 the 'xampp' folder inside your Tundra bin directory (which I suppose you 
 don't). That is, the open() command is executed inside Tundra and it searches 
 relative to the dir where you run Tundra.exe
 
 So you should do it like in the readme: So to make the default config work, 
 just have your Tundra git clone and WorldWebView git clone side by side in 
 the same directory. (so from tundra/bin/, ../../worldwebview/ is found).  If 
 you wan't to put worldwebview.html to some other place, you can just change 
 that open() command use that absolute filepath. I see now that using the url 
 '/client' can be confusing to access a file named worldwebview.html (that's 
 what the code does: when Tundra is asked for 'client', it reads that html 
 from the filesystem and returns it in the http reply). You can also test with 
 http://127.0.0.1:8886/ -- that one does not need worldwebview.html (the smart 
 client where you can move etc), but simply returns the current view from 
 Tundra (creates a html which has img with src set to the apache-served image 
 that it created).
 
 Apache (or any other web server for static files) is only used to transfer 
 the images, after the call to Tundra has generated them (that 'renderimg' 
 http handler does that). It would be also possible to have Tundra itself 
 return the actual image data too, and the tundra1 version of this thing had 
 that option too, but in practice it seemed that using a normal separate web 
 server is better for that in actual production setups so I skipped that 
 option now.
 
 Lasse
 
 ~Toni
 
 
 On Thursday, 4 October 2012 11:22:31 UTC+3, Toni Alatalo wrote:
 On Wed, 2012-10-03 at 08:13 -0700, Lasse Annola wrote: 
  I would be interested in trying this, in case you have time to make an 
  readme. 
 
 Sure! There's first take: 
 https://github.com/realXtend/worldwebview/#readme 
 
 I think all the required steps for installation and configuration are 
 covered there -- do ask if/when there's probs, and feel free to improve

Re: [realXtend] Re: interactive web view to server side Tundra rendering

[Toni Alatalo]

On Oct 14, 2012, at 11:59 AM, Lasse Annola wrote:
 Ive got my worldwebview cloned with tundra and the screenshot_server variable 
 is my local ip: 127.0.0.1:8886/renderimg. I don't know should i change that 
 renderimg to something else but i

That 'renderimg' should stay, it is the URL / http get command that the Tundra 
server has for rendering images (it gets the camera position  orientation as 
parameters, and returns the URL of the resulting image). You can see the 
tundrahttphandler.py to see how it's implemented if want.

 figured its part of the servers functionality so didn't touch anything 
 regarding that. I then copied that file into my apache htdocs folder to have 
 it on my server. Then i changed from tundrahttphandler.py the clienthtml = 
 open(xampp/htdocs/worldwebview.html), for it to find it. Now as i run 
 http://127.0.0.1/worldwebview.html via chrome, it opens the file but ERROR + 
 some placement variables come to the console on the left. I tried opening 
 my firewall but it did not have any effect (trying this locally so it 
 shouldnt anyway). I'm really running out of options here, ill continue by 
 setting everything to default.

Ah there seems to be a little confusion here: you don't need to copy any html 
to the Apache folder. The system works so that it is *Tundra* itself that 
replies to the first http requests, not Apache. This is why you access 
http://127.0.0.1:8886/client and not the default port -- that Tundra http 
handler listens to port 8886 by default. What you say above works if you have 
the 'xampp' folder inside your Tundra bin directory (which I suppose you 
don't). That is, the open() command is executed inside Tundra and it searches 
relative to the dir where you run Tundra.exe

So you should do it like in the readme: So to make the default config work, 
just have your Tundra git clone and WorldWebView git clone side by side in the 
same directory. (so from tundra/bin/, ../../worldwebview/ is found).  If you 
wan't to put worldwebview.html to some other place, you can just change that 
open() command use that absolute filepath. I see now that using the url 
'/client' can be confusing to access a file named worldwebview.html (that's 
what the code does: when Tundra is asked for 'client', it reads that html from 
the filesystem and returns it in the http reply). You can also test with 
http://127.0.0.1:8886/ -- that one does not need worldwebview.html (the smart 
client where you can move etc), but simply returns the current view from Tundra 
(creates a html which has img with src set to the apache-served image that it 
created).

Apache (or any other web server for static files) is only used to transfer the 
images, after the call to Tundra has generated them (that 'renderimg' http 
handler does that). It would be also possible to have Tundra itself return the 
actual image data too, and the tundra1 version of this thing had that option 
too, but in practice it seemed that using a normal separate web server is 
better for that in actual production setups so I skipped that option now.

 Lasse

~Toni

 
 On Thursday, 4 October 2012 11:22:31 UTC+3, Toni Alatalo wrote:
 On Wed, 2012-10-03 at 08:13 -0700, Lasse Annola wrote: 
  I would be interested in trying this, in case you have time to make an 
  readme. 
 
 Sure! There's first take: 
 https://github.com/realXtend/worldwebview/#readme 
 
 I think all the required steps for installation and configuration are 
 covered there -- do ask if/when there's probs, and feel free to improve 
 the docs too if want. 
 
 You have been using the websocket support also, so hopefully already 
 have a Tundra2 build with Python support, so all should be easy. Admino 
 is interested in getting this to use in their hosting system, and they 
 use windows servers, so we may need to update the windows deps for py 
 too (also websocket support may be required by Admino hosting soon and 
 that may also still require py support as well). 
 
  Lasse 
 
 ~Toni 
 
  On Tuesday, 25 September 2012 09:29:03 UTC+3, Toni Alatalo wrote: 
  The old 'virtual webcam' / screenshot server / server side 
  rendering is 
  back, now with Tundra2! 
  
  Live demo, running the physics2 demo scene from the Tundra 
  repository: 
  http://www.kadonnutkaupunki.net:8886/client 
  
  Clicking on the main image rotates view, so that the point 
  you 
  click/touch is put to center of the view. Arrowkeys can be 
  used to move. 
  
  Clicking on the map works to set the position, the coordinates 
  are 
  perhaps a bit weird now (the default view direction in that 
  scene is to 
  south considering the map, so clicking the pos north from the 
  center 
  shows you the middle part). 
  
  Your camera position is stored on the client side (the 
  browser), so any 
  number

Re: [realXtend] Re: Question regarding entity components and arrays of groups of properties

[Toni Alatalo]

On Sep 29, 2012, at 2:01 AM, Peter C. wrote:
 Thanks everyone, I appreciate it. The problem I have been having is that I 
 need an array which contains multiple properties per entry. I need to specify 
 multiple textures and properties per layer, so that's where I'm having the 
 difficulty. I'm evaluating the situation more, but it may take a while.

I also realized that difference, after had sent the quick mail with the ec_mesh 
materials list attribute. I'm not sure if we have that kind of structure 
anywhere yet, perhaps not.

what Jonne posted used:
dataComp.CreateAttribute(qvariantlist, materialList);

I think you can be quite flexible with QVariantlists and qvariants in general, 
creating your data structure somehow. Also on JS side some scripts just put 
their complex data structures as json in string attributes, some custom app 
things.

But I also understood that for a terrain system in Tundra and probably for 
defining the attributes properly anyway now is targeted with c++? There I 
suppose you want some typed things, perhaps implementing IAttribute, or just 
using some existing list types, hmhm.

In IAttribute.cpp there is for example:
template u32 AttributeAssetReference::TypeId() const { return 
cAttributeAssetReference; }
template u32 AttributeAssetReferenceList::TypeId() const { return 
cAttributeAssetReferenceList; }

https://github.com/realXtend/naali/blob/tundra2/src/Core/Scene/IAttribute.cpp#L71

i figure checking those things out will at least give some idea of the 
attribute biz, what kind of existing types there are (attributelist, qvariant, 
..) and how they are defined.

~Toni

-- 
http://groups.google.com/group/realxtend
http://www.realxtend.org

Re: [realXtend] Question regarding entity components and arrays of groups of properties

[Toni Alatalo]

On Sep 26, 2012, at 9:08 PM, Peter C. wrote:
 I was wondering if anyone had any knowledge of how to implement a entity 
 component with an array of groups of properties. I'm trying to implement an 
 ogre terrain entity component, however in order to properly implement it, I 
 need to implement an array that can be expanded as needed of groups of 
 textures/materials. I was wondering if A. this functionality was possible in 
 RealXtend,

EC_Mesh has an array of materials in the attributes,
in 
https://github.com/realXtend/naali/blob/tundra2/src/Core/OgreRenderingModule/EC_Mesh.h#L161
/// Mesh material asset reference list, material requests are handled 
automatically.
Q_PROPERTY(AssetReferenceList meshMaterial READ getmeshMaterial WRITE 
setmeshMaterial);
DEFINE_QPROPERTY_ATTRIBUTE(AssetReferenceList, meshMaterial);

 Peter

~Toni

-- 
http://groups.google.com/group/realxtend
http://www.realxtend.org

[realXtend] interactive web view to server side Tundra rendering

[Toni Alatalo]

The old 'virtual webcam' / screenshot server / server side rendering is
back, now with Tundra2!

Live demo, running the physics2 demo scene from the Tundra repository:
http://www.kadonnutkaupunki.net:8886/client

Clicking on the main image rotates view, so that the point you
click/touch is put to center of the view. Arrowkeys can be used to move.

Clicking on the map works to set the position, the coordinates are
perhaps a bit weird now (the default view direction in that scene is to
south considering the map, so clicking the pos north from the center
shows you the middle part).

Your camera position is stored on the client side (the browser), so any
number of people can move around in the scene without interfering each
other (as if they all had their own cameras).

This is the same old client that we developed already 2-3 years ago,
first browser based view to realXtend worlds, before WebGL or anything
existed. Is the simplest and lightest thing for the client side, as the
client shows just images -- was nice also for phones and tablets back
then. There is no new functionality yet, just a port of the old thing to
current tundra2.

The html+canvas2d client side project is
https://github.com/realXtend/worldwebview

Server side counterpart is
https://github.com/antont/tundra/blob/httpserver/bin/pyplugins/httpserver/tundrahttphandler.py

We've been talking with Adminotech now about integrating this to their
hosting system to get live views to the Tundra scenes there. I imagine
it will be nice to see what's going on in a scene already before logging
in. And it's fun that it is normal Tundra, so whatever is in the service
shows normally (for example avatars).

There are many ideas for improvements, primary one now is to change to
panorama rendering and add support for local camera rotations on the
client side. This way rotating the view becomes nice and smooth, not
needing the slow server roundtrip. This should be quite simple to do.
For movement fading transitions and progressive loading, similar to
Google's streetview, would be nice.

Other direction is using video streams for the display, perhaps similar
to what existing commercial server side rendering + streaming gaming
services do. I wonder if VLC could do that as we have it integrated
already (VLC is originally made for sending videos over LANs).

This area is not a replacement for other clients, e.g. WebGL ones (which
is also being worked on using three.js now, similar to the old
WebNaali), but a parallel track and a differently useful service.

If someone wants to use this now in their setup, you need to pull that
httpserver branch (1 line addition to py api in c++, 2 py files for the
http server lib  service implementation, no deps outside py stdlib) and
the web client. The web client html is served via Tundra's http server
to avoid cross-site scripting limitations in browsers. A separate web
server is used to deliver the actual images (I just use Apache, the
Tundra plugin copies the images to Apache's dir). I can help with
details (write a readme) if someone wants to try.

~Toni

P.S. that 'server' is still the same old EeePC as the previous time,
some dual core Atom processor in a netbook, but with a mobile nvidia
chip that runs light Tundra scenes ok :) Also the upstream from the
server is just some ~5MB DSL, that is the bottleneck for the image
transfers. For the Admino hosting integrated thing it will be some
powerful box in a well connected (hopefully 100MB or so) place, this is
just a simple proof of concept demo setup.

P.P.S. Back 1-2 years ago I also added server side rendering support
with http controls to Opensimulator, and Nebadon and Melanie tested
using this same web client to their Opensim servers. It worked ok and
was sure fun enough, but the Warp3D SW rendering module there had severe
memory leaks (was originally made for one-time map rendering, not many
subsequent calls like with this) -- I didn't go into fixing those. If
someone is interested, is still well possible to use this there too (and
the mem leak in the rendering seemed ease to fix with some restructuring
of the code).

-- 
http://groups.google.com/group/realxtend
http://www.realxtend.org

Re: [realXtend] Debian/testing compile fail.

[Toni Alatalo]

On Sep 4, 2012, at 4:10 AM, glenalec wrote:
 Well, the Ubuntu compile seems to work - first run got it to the 
 black-window-of-emptiness, which is the expected behavior without any actual 
 world data.
 Plugging in my test world from my Windows install, everything came up on the 
 graphical server window nicely!

Great :)

 Not so good at home on Debian. First run compiled, but the binary segfaulted. 
 Subsequent runs failed compile with:
 In file included from /usr/include/python3.2mu/Python.h:67:0,

The Tundra Python module is not currently written nor adapted to Python 3, 
which is API incompatible with 2.

  from 
 /scratch/naali-deps/install/include/PythonQtInstanceWrapper.h:45,
 
  from /scratch/naali-deps/install/include/PythonQt.h:46,
 

Same is true for the PythonQt library (although I haven't searched if someone 
has ported it to 3).

Python 2.6 and 2.7 (last in the 2 series, has gotten many backports from 3) are 
known to work.

Also the whole Python module in Tundra is optional, you only need it if you 
need it :) (if you want to integrate to some authentication system / web 
backend or so in py, or use user databases from py otherwise, or use the (old) 
py written websockets server, or some py AI lib for your game/app etc). You can 
comment it out in the build script for the deps part, and then in 
CMakeLists.txt for the Tundra build itself.

~Toni
  from 
 /scratch/naali/src/Application/PythonScriptModule/StableHeaders.h:10,
 
  from 
 /scratch/naali/src/Application/PythonScriptModule/StableHeaders.cpp:3:
 
 /usr/include/python3.2mu/object.h:402:18: error: expected unqualified-id 
 before ‘;’ token
 
 make[2]: *** 
 [src/Application/PythonScriptModule/CMakeFiles/PythonScriptModule.dir/StableHeaders.o]
  Error 1
 
 
 
 and a bunch of related fails around the same error. I am assuming this is an 
 issue with Debian's current python3.2 source code, rather than with anything 
 in ReX.
 
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 http://www.realxtend.org

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Re: [realXtend] problems exporting from Blender

[Toni Alatalo]

On Sat, 2012-08-25 at 19:50 -0700, Peter C. wrote:
 Hey, I'm using the blender2ogre exporter and I'm having issues with
 exporting a character mesh from a .blend file. I'm using Linux Mint 13
 (Ubuntu 12.04), and I have the ogre tools installed, along with meshy,
 and when I click export, the textures, .txml, and the materials
 export, but the mesh and animations don't export. Does anyone have any
 suggestions as to what may be going wrong here? I've also noticed that

Probably you have a new version of Blender (2.63*) and an old version of
blender2ogre which has not been adapted to work with the new mesh kernel
2.63 introduced (bmesh - current Blender really should be called 2.7 or
something to notify the big change, compared to 2.62).

This was discussed here in late June, in [realXtend] Belnder-Tundra
integration https://groups.google.com/forum/?fromgroups=#!
topic/realxtend/XyxZBnVWuXM

  the preview in Tundra is not working. It will load the viewer,
 however it says there is no scene file in the console log, and nothing
 is displayed in the window. I'm currently trying to get some test
 content up and running, but I can't get anything to export, so I
 really can't do anything at this point.

The old mesh api in Blender was just dropped so the old script simply
fails to export any geometry.

We dug an updated version from the Ogre forum back when encountered this
-- it was there early on and worked well, so there should be no prob.
http://www.ogre3d.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=8t=61485start=525 links
to this at the end and it states 2.63 support:
blender2Ogre-0.5.7-preview1.rar
http://www.ogre3d.org/forums/download/file.php?id=4095sid=64a791e6cf0e21f8631628ec216889e8
 .. seemed that that was the latest version there.

At one point I understood that Brett would have adopted that to
blender2ogre upstream but haven't checked. Adminotech hired him earlier
to write the exporter (when there was no Ogre export at all for the new
Blender 2.5 series) but I was told recently that Brett is now busy with
other things, possibly means that we'll start maintaining it from here 

In the meetings last week we, as in the association, proposed to use
money liberated from me (university starts paying me part-time
similarily as the foundation has done to take care of reX) to bugfixing
(issue tracker cleanup) and maintenance and blender2ogre is within scope
there (was my proposal). Adminotech made a good offer to do this work
pretty cheaply (for non-profit price, as all foundation work) so
situation with maintenance of these things should get better now.

 Peter

~Toni
 
 
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Re: [realXtend] Debian/testing compile fail.

[Toni Alatalo]

On Sat, 2012-08-25 at 15:33 -0700, glenalec wrote:
 Thanks for that Peter!
 I will have another go when the mainline is updated (I have access to
 a Windows system at work during the week, but it will be nice to have
 a version running at home for evenings/weekends).

Thanks indeed -- my situation is similar, have windows boxes for Tundra
at the studio, but usually use Linux only at home (for work) and for
quite long exclusively for Tundra dev actually (on Ubuntu).

One remark: there's a bit of queue of pull requests, and at least I'll
be very busy working towards an article deadline next week, so is
possible that testing linux build things takes a while (though there are
many at chiru.cie.fi etc. who build Tundra on Linux daily who may check
that out).

My point finally: It can be helpful if you don't wait for the mainline,
but just pull from Peter directly to your copy. It is quite easy with
git. It can help with the review of the pull request if you can also
comment on how it worked.

Cheers,
~Toni

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Re: [realXtend] Re: an overview: webgl based creation tools

[Toni Alatalo]

On Aug 18, 2012, at 10:55 PM, Peter C. wrote:
 Alright, fair enough, I know the feeling about open source and having real 
 life to attend to.

A clarification here: realXtend is very much real life for many of us here, as 
in the full time job that we attend to. Adminotech bases it's whole business on 
and realXtend, providing Tundra hosting and application development (and later 
possibly adds browser based views to the worlds too). It is the sole business 
of the company and they have several employees etc. Also CyberLightning (Jani 
Pirkola's company) is building a business on realXtend, their current first 
products CyberSlide and CyberTeam are customized Tundra installs with 
proprietary additions. Ludocraft also has products and delivers customer 
solutions using Tundra, although other technologies too. Spinningwire in 
Germany, whose project the Berlin Gallery Weekend project was, is also building 
a business on realXtend (so far mostly Tundra but with good experience from 
Lehto now too -- they don't do games that much but art and collaboration spaces 
where it may be a good fit too). The guys working in the research project 
chiru.cie.fi (some 6 devs or so) work fulltime, doing research by implementing 
things in Tundra and WebNaali.

But yes the open source part shows in the public offering -- no one is selling 
the realXtend platform itself as a business, as a tool for developers, so 
marketing and documenting on that side is weak.  Adminotech, targeting hosting 
business, does this in a way, and there is actually nice Tundra developer 
documentation coming to the web by them soon (Jonne gave a little pre-peek of 
the work-in-progress site). Anyhow this dilemma is something we'll certainly 
discuss in the Mon (assocication) and Wed (foundation) meetings.

 I'm currently planning out an open source project, and the reason I asked was 
 I was worried that Tundra was going to go web client centric (which would 
 kill it's usefulness to the project I'm

Right -- so that is definitely not happening.

 planning). Regarding QT and Ogre; some of the Ogre GSOC projects look really 
 interesting (especially involving terrain), and I really hope they get merged 
 in to at least a branch of the Safe Ogre soon, or better yet that Safe Ogre 
 pushes a merge request with main Ogre for the stability fixes.

Yep, I think we'll manage ok there. The safe-no-crashes branch has no feature 
related changes so merging is AFAIK easy enough, I hope both ways.

 As for QT, while it's nice for applications and as a framework, it's really 
 not high enough performance for games. It never really was intended as a game 
 GUI, so personally I would suggest another toolkit on performance grounds, 
 but that's another discussion. Right now I'm preparing for the coming school 
 semester and working on getting my bearings with this open source work I'm 
 doing.

As your later post pointed out, the problem is not Qt and with this regard GUI, 
but you probably meant the C++ - Javascript interfacing of qtscript.

One quite straightforward way to speed that up for core things such as moving 
objects around etc. *might* be to wrap the related c++ classes statically, 
instead of using the current  automatic fully dynamic system (without any 
wrapper code). I mean how qt itself is wrapped with compiled c++ wrapper 
classes in qtscript libraries, as opposed to using the qt properties  slots 
mechanism for the JS access. I don't remember if we talked with Jukka already 
if this could work, but anyhow it's simple to test as the qt bindings made that 
way are always there in Tundra. If that would not help, I figure we should just 
resort to some normal direct binding method (for example just write V8 bindings 
by hand or with some binding generator tool, haven't studied this recently). 
The automatic qtscript mechanism is very nice though for the 
non-performance-critical parts.

For GUIs btw there is now an alternative way of using Ogre surfaces directly, 
also from scripts, for performance reasons (drawing animated GUis from Qt to 
Ogre in Tundra is IIRC still slow too). Jukka made that last spring or so, I 
don't unfortunately recall now whether there's an example somewhere.

Thanks for the feedback and information -- it is very important for us to know 
about needs and perceptions from out there!

 Peter

~Toni

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http://www.realxtend.org

Re: [realXtend] C.A.V.E. ?

[Toni Alatalo]

On Jul 25, 2012, at 4:45 AM, Lord wrote:
 Where can I find information about what C.A.V.E. does in the Tundra2 Viewer 
 and what it is used for ?

It is for having multiple displays, for example projections on each wall for 
complete visual immersion as in a typical CAVE -- wikipedia seems to have a 
nice basic photo from one such room in 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cave_Automatic_Virtual_Environment

The Tundra module for that gives multiple view directions from the same scene, 
has presets / basic settings for common display setups for e.g. 3 displays etc. 
Is fun to try even with just a single display, they are just new Ogre3d 
rendering windows basically. Is implemented as an optional module, in 
CAVEStereo plugin.

Do try it out -- is in use by others succesfully, and is easily fun enough to 
test for example just with two monitors etc :)

~Toni

-- 
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http://www.realxtend.org

Re: [realXtend] Re: Belnder-Tundra integration

[Toni Alatalo]

Jonne Nauha jo...@adminotech.com kirjoitti Jun 29, 2012 kello 4:37 PM:
 I think those issues were only in the initial windows full build script as it 
 had qt 4.8. The py deps should build ok now that we reverted to 4.7.4. Just
 
Ah - I still thought that would need to rebuild the deps against new qt etc.
 The real problem is that the py module has no active maintainer. Toni (the 
 inactive maintainer :) said he will fix the deps build 2-3 months ago, I 
 guess he is busy.
 
I did get to work on it on a couple of days recently - enough to get a Windows 
Tundra dev running. I don't usually dev Tundra on Win so the old setups were 
outdated, also wanted to test the new scripts. Had some prob then with 
fullbuild which have still been unable to solve, doesn't compile iirc.

I did get a working build with your new prebuilt deps using script.

But releases are made with the full build one, so for that should get it 
working there I suppose - right?
 The deps and module is enabled and working in the linux build script, its 
 incomplete only in the windows script.
 
Yep, and we've been using Py for server side things mostly with Tundra recently 
and haven't needed Win there so hasn't been a prob in WebNaali tests etc. I 
heard that mopo/chiru at the uni are using py for some app things too, though - 
don't know how much for client/server sides (I heard a XMPP chat gui was 
written in py there).

I'm not sure if we want to include py in standard Tundra client downloads as 
those seem to be big (on win) even without it. On Linux (usually) and Mac 
(always) perhaps less an issue as the OS already comes with it (including the 
standard lib which we've bundling for Win)

-Toni


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Re: [realXtend] Belnder-Tundra integration

[Toni Alatalo]

On Thu, 2012-06-28 at 00:56 +0300, Jonne Nauha wrote:
 You should post issues to the page there if you have problems with the
 plugin. We know the guy who devs that in his free time and sometimes

I think it is ok also to discuss it here -- it is one of the tools we
kind of support for Tundra authoring, and the only one which we can
offer for free for anyone to try (and improve on etc, customize for
their world building needs even) so it kind of completes realXtend as an
open source 3d app / VW platform.

Sure the blender2ogre issue tracker etc is the correct one for it, I
just mean that figure that this is an ok place for reX/Tundra related
talks about it. And the direct TXML export etc. that the 'magic
button' :) does is Tundra specific, not generic Ogre.

 don't have direct involvement in the development, so we can't do bug
 fixes/features to it. Though there are people here that know how to
 use it so we can probably help out here as well. For me the setup has

We can (and have) but yep anyhow Brett created it and has been doing a
good job upgrading  enhancing it usually, also great tutorial videos
etc.

One issue we've encountered recently (a user complained) was that
current blender2ogre didn't work with new Blender (which introduced a
new mesh kernel, bmesh, and some subsequent api changes in 2.6.3) --
there was already an upgrade on the Ogre forum and that worked fine for
us (we tested with Rauli a couple of weeks back and tried to help the
user the update his script).

Dunno if Brett has taken a look at that yet. We can also help,
maintaining the exporter is actually among the covered possible tasks
for the work me and Jukka do with the reX foundation funding (but not
lots and there's a huge amount of other work so is definitely great if
Brett or someone can do it).

 always been really easy and I've got it to work 100% of the time when
 I have followed the install instructions carefully.

Have you also been using the direct 'run Tundra' button, or just doing
the TXML export and launching Tundra manually then?

IIRC the script tries to guess the Tundra location somehow, but if it
fails, the instructions cover how to set the path for it.

The live connection to then move objects, trigger animations etc.
requires a bit more and doesn't work out of the box on Windows releases
now as Tundra doesn't bundle Python anymore/currently in those
installers. 

The button should still work to do the TXML export + Tundra preview
launching nicely, though. Just needs to have the path, I don't think the
relevant command line arguments have changed in Tundra recently. It's
really quite nice to be able to open any blend, and just press a single
button to get it show in Tundra.

I've so far only used it on Linux myself, and that's what Brett used to
dev it too. Others (MasterJ?) did configure it on windows, Brett was
helping I think here then.
 
 Jonne Nauha

~Toni

BTW the bconf demo that was referred is on the realxtend.org site /
youtube, so it would have been possible for also Jonne to know what i
showed :)
 
 On Thu, Jun 28, 2012 at 12:43 AM, Bill gfxg...@gmail.com wrote:
 I've tried it a couple times and was unable to get it to work
 correctly.
 
 
 On Wed, Jun 27, 2012 at 5:39 PM, Jonne Nauha
 jo...@adminotech.com wrote:
 I'm not sure what Toni has shown so hard to say, maybe
 he can answer more on that :)
 
 
 Anyways the thing most people use with Tundra is
 blender2ogre
 http://code.google.com/p/blender2ogre/ blender plugin.
 There seems to be a nice install wiki page there and
 all the relevant info how to get it going. If you need
 help with Tundra itself, you can post your questions
 here as the doxygen pages that have most of the help
 for people are still not up (after our web page
 meltdown that we are trying to recover from :)
 
 Best regards,
 Jonne Nauha
 Adminotech developer
 
 
 
 On Thu, Jun 28, 2012 at 12:01 AM, Tom Bomfim
 haylt...@gmail.com wrote:
 Does anyone have a step by step how to install
 the plugin for Blender-Tundra (win and Mac if
 possible) with that magic button that Toni
 has shown in the bconf 2011?
 
 
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 http://www.realxtend.org
 
 
 

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Re: [realXtend] Re: Growing support for OpenSim compatible viewer.

[Toni Alatalo]

On Jun 6, 2012, at 7:03 AM, Lord wrote:
 to make the hybrid viewer ?   Another thing I have been thinking about was 
 that it seemed that Ogre would be incompatible with OpenSim and wondering why 
 it wasn't a module instead of part of the core, so that it could be more 
 easily switched in or out as needed and to keep everything as small and fast 
 as possible ?

Ogre isn't really incompatible with OpenSim -- Naali (~old version of Tundra) 
itself demonstrates that, for example this screenshot from osgrid shows a 
primboard in Naali 0.1, 
https://www.dropbox.com/gallery/1002746/1/naali?h=d9f90e#gallery:12

It is just that it doesn't do batching automagically, so for efficient 
rendering of large prim builds (say a house with staircases etc resulting in 
2000 prims) the prim support with Ogre would need to be implemented so that 
nearby prims using the same materials are combined to single objects etc. Lasse 
(the dev from Ludocraft who wrote Naali's (and hence Tundra's) rendering module 
made a plan for that back then, was iirc 1-3 man months work. The same 
technique would work also for user created content made with meshes, is not 
specific to prims only. I guess an alternative would be to implement prim 
rendering with some kind of special prim rendering code.

And the rendering with Ogre is in a module, just that for simplicity the Ogre 
types are used also in scene core currently. That may change depending on how 
well Ogre suits all the needs in the future, for example how it runs on current 
mobile devices etc. Ogre itself is quite small and very modular (the main dll 
is some 300kb iirc? then scene managers, directx/opengl etc renderers and for 
example particles are optional plugins) so it is often not a problem.

~Toni

 On Monday, April 30, 2012 9:58:50 AM UTC-4, ATupper wrote:
 To me it would seem that the optimal solution would be a project 
 loosely coupled with both of the development teams for ReX and 
 Opensim.  This breed of Tundra-based Opensim viewer does show a 
 substantial amount of promise, but it would really need a dedicated 
 team to dig in and suss out all of the inevitable roadblocks without 
 diverting resources away from either of the core teams.  This might be 
 the place for a for-profit venture to step in to take up the flag of 
 doing the heavy grunt work to get a implementation cranked out and 
 released into the wild.  Such a venture would have to develop the 
 viewer with its' release as open-source as a given and build a 
 business model around leveraging services around it. 
 
 While we're tossing around blue-sky concepts for a hybrid, I'd like to 
 point out a big advantage of not hard-coding the viewer UI is the 
 ability to experiment with radically different layouts (Ilan touched 
 on this tangentially).  One of my longest running soapbox rants is 
 that for new adopters of Opensim/SL, the viewer is too complicated and 
 loaded with functionality that they don't want or need.  It's much 
 like giving an industrial-grade smelter to someone who just wants an 
 EZ-Bake oven.  There are of course plenty of people who do want and 
 need the advanced functionality, but those people are very rarely the 
 ones who are trying out the platform for the first time.  By not 
 hardcoding the UI, there's a lot more freedom to experiment with a 
 simplified experience that will help draw in new users. Theoretically, 
 if we can make it easier for new users to have positive experiences 
 with both Opensim and ReX, it will lead to a positive feedback loop.
 
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Re: [realXtend] Re: Reminder: realXtend ANNUAL MEETING 29.5.2012

[Toni Alatalo]

On Jun 3, 2012, at 7:21 PM, Lord wrote:
 Will their be a summary or minutes of the Annual Meeting posted ?

Yes, Elina took notes and said that she'll post -- I suppose shortly.

There was nothing dramatic, but some good discussion.

~Toni


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Re: [realXtend] Reminder: realXtend ANNUAL MEETING 29.5.2012

[Toni Alatalo]

On May 28, 2012, at 11:48 AM, Elina Rosenlund wrote:
 realXtend Annual Meeting will take place on Tuesday 29th of May at 10:00 EET 
 on RMP. Please find attached the agenda for the meeting. The annual meeting 
 will be led by Jani Pirkola, realXtend chairman of the board.

Some material for the meeting, and in general too:

1. definition of realXtend -- revised from the draft I posted for review here 
earlier this spring ('about2'), thank you for the comments that came in via the 
Wordpress system!
http://realxtend.wordpress.com/about/

2. realXtend technology platform roadmap for years 2012-2013. NOTE: the tasks 
and schedules are tentative, we don't currently have substantial funding for 
new feature and platform developments, but do have something so some things 
will be worked on in any case. Funding folks are working to get projects that 
could include bigger platform dev efforts too, we'll see how that goes later. 
Possible other means, for example something crowdsourcing style, we could 
discuss in the meeting or here otherwise. Mainly this document is a strategy, 
identified and agreed on areas of work. With a limited focus, though, as mainly 
discusses reaching mobile devices etc. basic runtime platform topics, and not 
much features or e.g. creation tools which could be projects on their own.
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/3157753/rex/RexRoadmap.odt

We could webify at least parts of that plan somehow, perhaps with 
getsatisfaction or basecamp or some such, or just the current github issues  
milestones system for small technical tasks.

 to go in  RMP,  connect first to login web page.

A note about RMP: there was some technical problems with the scene until 
yesterday evening, something was causing crashes -- we unfortunately could not 
nail down the problem yet. Now it works, however, as the guys restored it to a 
stable version from backups. I also now removed Hydrax and SkyX's volumetric 
clouds from there so that it's not so heavy.

If it does not work for someone with Tundra, it is also possible to use a 
standalone Mumble client to join in the same voice session -- Jonne or someone 
from Adminotech (also RMP is in their hosting) can hopefully give the details 
(murmur server address, login information, the voice channel id) in case. We 
are in IRC also (#realxtend on freenode) so please tell there if you need this 
option.

~Toni

 
 1- in the login page ,download the latest tundra version for Mac or PC 
 
 2- back in the Realxtend login page choose a ,name with out spaces 
 
 3- In select Scene, choose realxtend-RMP 
 
 4- click on one of the three avatar the Tundra client should then starts 
 
 
 Best regards,
 
 Elina Rosenlund
 Marketing Executive
 Cyberlightning Ltd.
 
 tel.+358 102712130 
 mobile. +358 505955730
 email. elina.rosenl...@cyberlightning.com
 
 Enrich Your Presentations! Buy CyberSlide Now for $179 - www.cybersli.de
 
 www.cyberlightning.com
 
 
 
 -- 
 http://groups.google.com/group/realxtend
 http://www.realxtend.organnualmeeting2012_AGENDA.docx

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Re: [realXtend] Reminder: realXtend ANNUAL MEETING 29.5.2012

[Toni Alatalo]

On May 29, 2012, at 9:09 AM, Toni Alatalo wrote:
 2. realXtend technology platform roadmap for years 2012-2013. NOTE: the tasks 
 and schedules are tentative, we don't currently have substantial funding for 
 new feature and platform developments, but do
...
  http://dl.dropbox.com/u/3157753/rex/RexRoadmap.odt


Converted to PDF too: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/3157753/rex/RexRoadmap.pdf . 

 ~Toni

same.

 1- in the login page ,download the latest tundra version for Mac or PC 
 
 2- back in the Realxtend login page choose a ,name with out spaces 
 
 3- In select Scene, choose realxtend-RMP 
 
 4- click on one of the three avatar the Tundra client should then starts 
 
 
 Best regards,
 
 Elina Rosenlund
 Marketing Executive
 Cyberlightning Ltd.
 
 tel.+358 102712130 
 mobile. +358 505955730
 email. elina.rosenl...@cyberlightning.com
 
 Enrich Your Presentations! Buy CyberSlide Now for $179 - www.cybersli.de
 
 www.cyberlightning.com
 
 
 
 -- 
 http://groups.google.com/group/realxtend
 http://www.realxtend.organnualmeeting2012_AGENDA.docx
 
 
 -- 
 http://groups.google.com/group/realxtend
 http://www.realxtend.org

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Re: [realXtend] realxtend.org server is down.

[Toni Alatalo]

On May 23, 2012, at 1:39 PM, Jarkko Vatjus-Anttila wrote:
 Jani is back, but he does not have the server admin access. I thought he did.
 Maybe Jani can still check what might be wrong in the DNS records, if this is 
 not the server based issue at all.

I have an account to the server, and Tommi does too,  but it doesn't respond. I 
think it is just crashed / stalled. DNS returns this for me and it looks 
correct (as in seems familiar, I think it used to be online with that ip: 
109.204.228.11)

So does not seem like a DNS issue to me. Otherwise I've no way access that box, 
that has been behind Tommi somehow and is perhaps the same folks and place (and 
even machine?-) where you have the chiru servers? (Nokia Tampere)

 - j

~Toni

 On Mon, May 21, 2012 at 4:05 PM, Jonne Nauha jo...@adminotech.com wrote:
 I guess Tommi was right then in suspecting its the DNS :) That is where 
 realxtend.org should redirect afaik, and if its up...
 
 I heard from Jarkko that Jani will be around tomorrow, hopefully he can sort 
 it out asap.
 
 Best regards,
 Jonne Nauha
 Adminotech developer
 
 
 
 On Mon, May 21, 2012 at 3:55 PM, Antti Ilomäki antti.ilom...@gmail.com 
 wrote:
 Also note that http://realxtend.wordpress.com/ still works.
 
 2012/5/20  jukka.jyla...@ludocraft.com:
  The web server http://www.realxtend.org/ seems to be down. We are aware of
  the situation and are trying to contact the relevant web admin people to
  investigate the issue.
 
  (realXtend itself did not disappear anywhere ;)
 
Jukka
 
 
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 --
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 http://www.realxtend.org
 
 
 -- 
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 http://www.realxtend.org
 
 
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 http://www.realxtend.org

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Re: [realXtend] realxtend.org server is down.

[Toni Alatalo]

On Wed, 2012-05-23 at 13:45 +0300, Toni Alatalo wrote:
  Maybe Jani can still check what might be wrong in the DNS records,
  if this is not the server based issue at all.

Now I think I know what Tommi meant with Jani  DNS confs: simply change
realxtend.org to point to the wordpress blog, perhaps by making
wordpress.com itself host the domain or whatever.

To just forget the old box that we don't have direct access to and which
is unreliable now.

The current realxtend.org server doesn't have any critical data -- most
important thing it serves now is the Tundra API docs (doxygen), but that
is just autogenerated from a Tundra git clone and we can set it up to
some new place. Also there is a SVN checkout of Chesapeake Bay and other
scenes for having them on the web, but again no original data but just
checkouts.

Jani registered the domain originally and has hence supposedly has the
account etc. info needed to configure it. Right?

 ~Toni

same.


  On Mon, May 21, 2012 at 4:05 PM, Jonne Nauha jo...@adminotech.com
  wrote:
  I guess Tommi was right then in suspecting its the DNS :)
  That is where realxtend.org should redirect afaik, and if
  its up...
  
  
  I heard from Jarkko that Jani will be around tomorrow,
  hopefully he can sort it out asap.
  
  Best regards,
  Jonne Nauha
  Adminotech developer
  
  
  
  On Mon, May 21, 2012 at 3:55 PM, Antti Ilomäki
  antti.ilom...@gmail.com wrote:
  Also note that http://realxtend.wordpress.com/ still
  works.
  
  2012/5/20  jukka.jyla...@ludocraft.com:
   The web server http://www.realxtend.org/ seems to
  be down. We are aware of
   the situation and are trying to contact the
  relevant web admin people to
   investigate the issue.
  
   (realXtend itself did not disappear anywhere ;)
  
 Jukka
  
  
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[realXtend] Notes from May dev meet

[Toni Alatalo]

Hi,

we meet monthly with parties doing realXtend development. To talk about
work done and coming to next release, and to design how upcoming new
things should be made. This is for organizations doing actual code
contributions -- make enough pull requests and you'll get invited :) The
community meetings that Fred organizes inworld are open for anyone -- at
least I will be participating there in the future from the dev side, if
there are code questions etc, and we are available almost all the time
on freenode irc #realxtend-dev for questions and open talks.

We'll be posting notes from the core dev meets -- here are the main
points that we discussed with Jukka (Ludocraft  realXtend association),
Jonne (Adminotech) and Jarkko (CIE / Chiru project) yesterday:

New things for next Tundra release:

* Adminotech made substantial improvements to Tundra in the Berlin
Gallery Weekend project. All those are in the realXtend Tundra repo now
(merged via pull requests) already. Highlights:
 - Voice: fixes to the new Mumble plugin which was recently rewritten
from scratch, reusing much of the code from the normal standalone Mumble
client. Is reliable and gives good quality voice now (basically same as
Mumble normally). Is also compatible with other Mumble clients, which
now exist for at least iOS (iPhone  iPad) too -- so participating in
same voice conferences with Tundra and iPhone works now!
 - Mac improvements -- Windows and OSX versions are equally well
supported now (in the current Admino builds and hopefully in next
realXtend release too). For example dealing with the now very common low
end graphics cards in e.g. Macbook airs needed care.

* Ludocraft has made a lot of bugfixes and improvements. Also a new
Entity-Component: GraphicsViewCanvas, to put 2d GUI to 3d objects as
textures, so that the drawing is efficient and mouse input events work.
Earlier EC WidgetCanvas component has allowed the same, but with a
heavier drawing mechanism and without input support.

* cie.fi's Chiru project has reorganized their Tundra codes so that
instead of a modified Tundra repo that has both core changes + Chiru's
modules, there is now a separate chiru add-ons repository for the
optional plugins which work on unmodified realXtend Tundra core too.
Jarkko can tell at some point about the highlights there.

We at Playsign had our hands full with the alternative Flash client +
XMPP backend virtual world system for the Berlin event, discussed in
other posts. We've been now doing long term roadmap planning with all
the companies where consider the alternative techs etc., that's still
going on -- plans start to come online early next week, will post about
that separately.

On-going development work:
* Chiru is continuing with the Asset Import module (using the assimp
library), which they already had working for COLLADA and .blend scene
loading with Tundra1 last year. One guy is porting it now first to
Tundra2 as is, and will then refactor it so that it fits the core and
the asset api etc. nicely. Many file types supported by assimp are
bundles which include many assets -- for example a Collada file can
optionally contain a library of meshes, materials, even texture bitmap
data, and possibly a full scene hierarchy with parenting etc. We can add
support to importing such scene files similarily to how Ogre .scene
files are imported now. Also the plan is to support referring to assets
in such bundles, for example a mesh reference like: mycollada.dae#chair
* Chiru is also testing interest management / network messaging
priorization, to support large scenes with a lot of moving objects (idea
is to use a similar technique that Sirikata does, prioritize messages
based on distance or view angle)

In the companies we typically go where projects take us -- I understood
that for Adminotech and Ludocraft it is not known yet what core
improvements or new functionality would be coming next. Admino is at
least working on their hosting backend anyway. With Playsign we have
some teaching sessions soon where have planned on using the Chesapeake
Bay scene  scripts, and I also promised to visit the Boston Immersive
Education summit to present it, so we'll continue with the Tundra2 port
of that (some of the animal walk paths code work now but not all,
hopefully we can get the games working too soon enough).

The long term roadmapping work was requested by the realXtend foundation
board -- there we basically identify possible bigger development
targets, for which the foundation guys said that even substantial
funding could be possible via some development programs etc. A major
topic there is running on current mobile platforms, iOS and Android etc.

Do ask if have any questions about status of things and what is going
on.

Cheers,
~Toni

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Re: [realXtend] Re: Virtual Berlin Gallery Weekend

[Toni Alatalo]

On May 9, 2012, at 2:49 AM, Lord wrote:
 I, for one, was pleasantly surprised at how well the browser based viewer 
 worked..although I didn't quite understand the eyeballs thing.

The eyeball is just a mesh+texture for the avatar that the customer thought 
that might be nice :)

It does fit the tech/config where the movements are largely automatic, e.g. the 
autofly from a picture to another -- an animated human avatar with legs would 
have been more work to make look ok for such autowalks (I think still quite 
easily doable for ok non-perfect level).

Also one dilemma is that we wanted to show the avatars in front of the art 
pieces that they are looking at, so that everyone can see who else is looking 
at the same piece. But we also wanted that the viewing angle is direct, to not 
obstruct the view of the art pic itself. This means that full-sized human 
avatars would block the view. Options are to make the human dwarfs, or scale up 
the gallery so that it looks like it's for giants -- or this kind of smaller 
non-human avatars which don't block the view.

BTW you can click on the art pic you are at to zoom close to it and get a clear 
view -- it hides the UI and the avatars, and the textures are 2k also in the 
Flash version so should be ok quality to view.

About tablets -- there's a quite common missunderstandin there: the Flash tech 
does run on iOS and Android phones and tablets, in fact we have been testing 
this same gallery application on iPhone and iPad. It just called Adobe AIR in 
that case, and gives installable apps instead of loading with a browser like 
with desktop OSes.

One idea is to make little a generic realXtend open source demo using the tech 
from that project, we could perhaps put that app then to appstore etc. too so 
that people will try also with phones  tablets. 

Thanks for testing and reporting! 
~Toni

 
 On Monday, May 7, 2012 5:05:39 AM UTC-4, antont wrote:
 Is publicly open for anyone to visit, more info in 
 http://realxtend.wordpress.com/2012/05/07/51-exhibitions-in-berlin-and-realxtend/
  
   
 Direct link to login buttons -- both Tundra and the browser based version: 
 http://vgwb.spinningwire.com/ 
 
 Cheers, 
 ~Toni
 
 -- 
 http://groups.google.com/group/realxtend
 http://www.realxtend.org

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Re: [realXtend] Re: Virtual Berlin Gallery Weekend

[Toni Alatalo]

On May 9, 2012, at 3:58 AM, Jonne Nauha wrote:
 and the data that populated the scene with the actual Tundra world. 
 Connecting to a Tundra server is quite easily doable though, as that flash 
 thing can do (afaik) raw UDP connections. It was just no in scope of this 
 particular project to implement the protocol etc. to the flash one. Playsign 
 (who made the browser part) have already done webgl clients that connected to 
 an actual Tundra server via websockets and have avatars mixed in with full 
 Tundra clients in the scene. Hopefully I'm not talking too much out of my ass 
 here, Toni can correct me if I misspoke :)

Yep that is correct, that gallery client doesn't connect to Tundra. The earlier 
WebGL+WebSockets one does, and we also made a similar test/demo with Flash with 
TCP (Flash clients connects to a similar Python module running in Tundra than 
the websocket one, just uses normal TCP for simple JSON messaging) in the 
research phase in December/January. UDP and kNet for native Tundra connections 
would be possible but is not implemented.

In the gallery thing we use XMPP for all the networking, which I find very 
interesting in general as a possible Internet scale virtual worlds backend, 
perhaps nice to use with Tundra too. Gives authentication, federation, is also 
used by gtalk and facebook chat, has simple way to have avatar info in the 
profiles etc. And presence info, ready queries for how many people are on which 
room/server etc. Is extensible and supports additional communication channels, 
so to e.g. put up a big grid like setup of Tundra worlds could be setup with 
XMPP so that the Tundra and Mumble etc. connection addresses would be given 
from the XMPP world info.

In this particular case it allowed scaling well, as was easy to create 51 
sub-scenes with their own communication channels for the movement messages .. 
on a robust mature production quality server (ejabberd) with an already 
existing client side network library (XIFF is XMPP for Flash/AIR) and for the 
supporting Python bots that run on the server side etc. Is easy to scale by 
putting up more erlang or xmpp nodes etc. We tested that 30people * 50galleries 
= 1500 client connections was still ok for a single small server, thanks to 
the lazy messaging (same avatar/messaging design might allow even much more 
with the optimized messaging in Tundra), and the robustness of ejabberd.

One way to integrate the two implementations would be to make the Tundra 
*server* connect to XMPP as well (either with Qt XMPP C++ lib + JS logic or 
with Python XMPP libs) to get the presence info of the Flash clients so it 
could then use some lightweight means to have those eyeballs live in the Tundra 
scene as well. Or perhaps better a server side headless Tundra client which 
does the relaying so the messaging to the Tundra server would be already 
optimized. Let's see if we get to try that at some point :)

 Jonne Nauha

~Toni

 
 On Wed, May 9, 2012 at 2:49 AM, Lord lords...@gmail.com wrote:
 Ener Hax of iLiveSL and Sim On A Stick fame did a small write-up about 
 experiencing this :  http://iliveisl.com/pseudo-3d-art-exhibit/
 
 I, for one, was pleasantly surprised at how well the browser based viewer 
 worked..although I didn't quite understand the eyeballs thing.
 
 
 On Monday, May 7, 2012 5:05:39 AM UTC-4, antont wrote:
 Is publicly open for anyone to visit, more info in 
 http://realxtend.wordpress.com/2012/05/07/51-exhibitions-in-berlin-and-realxtend/
  
   
 Direct link to login buttons -- both Tundra and the browser based version: 
 http://vgwb.spinningwire.com/ 
 
 Cheers, 
 ~Toni
 
 -- 
 http://groups.google.com/group/realxtend
 http://www.realxtend.org
 
 
 -- 
 http://groups.google.com/group/realxtend
 http://www.realxtend.org

-- 
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http://www.realxtend.org

[realXtend] Virtual Berlin Gallery Weekend

[Toni Alatalo]

Is publicly open for anyone to visit, more info in 
http://realxtend.wordpress.com/2012/05/07/51-exhibitions-in-berlin-and-realxtend/
 
Direct link to login buttons -- both Tundra and the browser based version:
http://vgwb.spinningwire.com/

Cheers,
~Toni

-- 
http://groups.google.com/group/realxtend
http://www.realxtend.org

Re: [realXtend] Is it still possible to get the under the waves demo on any archive?

[Toni Alatalo]

On May 1, 2012, at 7:26 PM, RexDilettant wrote:
 Anyone know how to get a copy?

For a fully working thing, you need the old rexserver download + the rexviewer 
from that time. I think it was included and working in the rexserver 0.4 
download, which is hopefully available via some archives. Ah they were 
SourceForge projects, so the server downloads are at 
http://sourceforge.net/projects/realxtendserver/files/realxtendserver/ and 
http://sourceforge.net/projects/realxtendviewer/files/realxtendviewer/0.42/ .. 
the direct file for what I think is the best version of the server for BTW, 
http://sourceforge.net/projects/realxtendserver/files/realxtendserver/realxtendserver-0.4/realxtendserver_0.4.zip/download

A current port of the static contents, saved using Naali from opensim+modrex 
(rexserver 0.5, where Beneath The Waves worked quite ok but not fully), and 
then converted to current Tundra format with a Python script, is on-line in 
http://www.realxtend.org/world/BeneathTheWaves/ (the txml+assets, you can start 
a local server from there: Tundra.exe --file 
http://www.realxtend.org/world/BeneathTheWaves/BeneathTheWaves.txml)

I made a quite nicely looking limited version for current Tundra 2 last autumn, 
can put that on-line too (it has the insides of the dome pretty correct, and 
then what you see from there .. but the other areas have errors due to 
non-perfect conversion.)

The Tundra versions don't have any code, just the meshes+textures and the 
scene. On the other hand, the new Chesapeake Bay has basic fish etc. movement 
scripts. Might be fun to use those for the Coral fishes too, get some life to 
BTW on Tundra .. or why not port the whole thing with the game and all, if/when 
someone has time :)

 Emerald

~Toni

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Re: [realXtend] Mumble record voice

[Toni Alatalo]

On Apr 27, 2012, at 12:58 AM, Carlos wrote:
 I'm trying to record the voice of a mumble conversation with javascript code. 
 I was seeing MumbleApplication.js and Mumble scene but I don´t find a Record 
 function like mumble native client. Furthermore the mumble client converts 
 recorded audio to different formats. I would need flac format. Is possible?

Do you need to record from Tundra?

Is also possible to connect to the same server with the standalone Mumble 
client and use that to record.

Possibly the non-gui library version of Mumble used with Tundra now (Jonne 
ported the audio code over from the mumble client to a lib) doesn't have 
recording code now.

 Carlos

~Toni

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Re: [realXtend] Synchronization in clients in Tundra

[Toni Alatalo]

On Apr 25, 2012, at 10:35 AM, Vaibhav Vaidya wrote:
 I have a character moving to-n-fro (along the Z-axis) in the scene. I have 
 written the following script for this. When I choose the run mode to server, 
 the script doesn't execute but when I switch to both (client and sever), 
 animation runs smoothly with the single client but when I connect multiple 
 clients, the animation is jerky. Am I missing anything simple?? or Is there 
 anything wrong with the

With this setup all the clients run it individually on the client side, and 
have their own opinion about the exact position, which they all communicate to 
the server which then replicates the changes to all the clients .. so it gets 
jerky.

Correct is to do the modification only in one place, and have that replicate 
over the net. Either on the server or one of the clients.

With this code you disable it on the server - don't do that, if you want to run 
it on a server :)

 if (!server.IsRunning()  !framework.IsHeadless())
 {
 StartAnimation();
 }

~Toni

 var entityNameToFind = UrbanMale.;
 var animationNameToStart = Walk;
 var availableAnims=0;
 var delta = -0.005;
 var s = 1;
 
 function StartAnimation()
 {
 var objectToAnimate = scene.GetEntityByName(entityNameToFind);
 if (objectToAnimate != null  objectToAnimate.animationcontroller != 
 null)
 {
 if(availableAnims=0)
   
 frame.DelayedExecute(1.0).Triggered.connect(StartAnimation);
   
   
   availableAnims = 
 objectToAnimate.animationcontroller.GetAvailableAnimations();
 
 var animFound = false;
 for(var i=0; iavailableAnims.length; i++)
 {
 if (availableAnims[i] == animationNameToStart)
 {
 animFound = true;
 break;
 }
 }
 if (animFound)
 {
 
 objectToAnimate.animationcontroller.EnableAnimation(animationNameToStart, 
 true);
   
 objectToAnimate.animationcontroller.SetAnimSpeed(Walk,0.6);
 }
 
   var trans = me.placeable.transform;
   trans.pos.z = -5;
   
   trans.rot.x = 0;
   trans.rot.y = 180;
   trans.rot.z = 0;
   
   me.placeable.transform = trans;
   frame.DelayedExecute(0.5).Triggered.connect(updatePosition);  
   
 }
 else
 {
 frame.DelayedExecute(1.0).Triggered.connect(StartAnimation);
 }
 }
 
 
 if (!server.IsRunning()  !framework.IsHeadless())
 {
 StartAnimation();
 }
 
 
 function updatePosition(dt) {
 var tm = me.placeable.transform;
 
   if(tm.pos.z = -24  tm.pos.z = 2)
   {
   tm.pos.z += (s*delta);
   }
 else 
   {
   tm.rot.y += 180;
   tm.pos.z += (s*2);
   s *= -1;
   tm.rot.y %= 360;
   }
   me.placeable.transform = tm;
   frame.DelayedExecute(0.01).Triggered.connect(updatePosition);  
 }
 
 
 I have used the RigidBody component for the character (as well as terrain), 
 but I see the character legs getting into the terrain in high areas. How can 
 I make character clamp on the terrain??
 
 Regards,
 Vaibhav
 
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snap to terrain (Re: [realXtend] Synchronization in clients in Tundra)

[Toni Alatalo]

On Apr 25, 2012, at 10:35 AM, Vaibhav Vaidya wrote:
 I have used the RigidBody component for the character (as well as terrain), 
 but I see the character legs getting into the terrain in high areas. How can 
 I make character clamp on the terrain??

what collision type is the rigidbody?

in animation code with moving characters and a heightmap based terrain this can 
be useful:
var p = terrain.GetPointOnMap(tm.pos); //the point on the terrain at this 
location - i.e. gives the current land height
is in use in http://www.realxtend.org/world/lvm-tundra2/deer2.js (function 
updatePosition(dt))
which is up-to-date -- Jukka touched it previously in February or so I think 
after I originally made it (after ludo-Heikki's initial work), and did core 
enchancements for the terrain to support animation things at the same time.
 
 Vaibhav

~Toni

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Re: [realXtend] SkyX component in tundra

[Toni Alatalo]

On Apr 23, 2012, at 7:46 PM, Vaibhav Vaidya wrote:
 I tried this also. I created a simple script which increments the time 
 attribute by some amount but the problem is that if I choose run mode to 
 server, the script doesn't execute. And, if I choose run mode to both, the 
 second client gets initialized with some initial value and it starts 
 increment from that value and hence, not synchronized with the previously 
 connected client.

Perhaps the server doesn't run with SkyX as it needs shaders etc?

If that's the case, one solution is to have a abstract server side script that 
only does the incrementing, and then another script on the client side that 
reads those values and puts them to SkyX.

 Vaibhav

~Toni

 On Mon, Apr 23, 2012 at 7:38 PM, Ali Kämäräinen stinkfi...@gmail.com wrote:
 Hi,
 
 Set 'timeMultiplier' to 0 and use the 'time' attribute to synchronize the 
 time between all participants. The changes that the time multiplier does for 
 the 'time' attribute are not replicated as it would produce substantial 
 amount of the network traffic. If you want to animate the time, you can 
 create a simple script that increments the time attribute, say, each 10 
 seconds.
 
 Grey skies,
 Ali Kämäräinen
 
 -- 
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 http://www.realxtend.org
 
 
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Re: [realXtend] realxtend.org site is down?

[Toni Alatalo]

On Apr 17, 2012, at 2:13 PM, Teemu Siltanen wrote:
 Can't see doxygen documentation from there though and that's what I needed :(
 But I hope it gets fixed soon.

Tommi from Adminotech is digging up contact info for the folks who host the 
server. It is actually kindly provided by Nokia for free. Hopefully we can 
reach them soon and they can start it up again.

We should probably move it to some hosting provider with easier access but 
easiest now would be to get the old server up for now, we are all busy with 
projects too.

~Toni

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[realXtend] new definition of realXtend

[Toni Alatalo]

Well the same definition as always I think, but a new up-to-date writeup of it 
:)

What is realXtend?
http://realxtend.wordpress.com/?page_id=260preview=true

Is a draft for preview and comments, feel free to comment either to the article 
(which is proposed as the new 'about' page for the website) or here or irc or 
however.

We have a core devs meet tomorrow at 13 and then the realXtend foundation board 
also meets starting at 15, and they invited me and Jukka to join there to tell 
about recent work done, current status, and plans for the future. They 
originally requested the definition of realXtend core etc. This is my current 
best shot that will present there then at least to base discussion, unless 
critical flaws or otherwise better definitions come up.

~Toni

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Re: [realXtend] new definition of realXtend

[Toni Alatalo]

On Apr 3, 2012, at 10:37 AM, Toni Alatalo wrote:
 What is realXtend?
 http://realxtend.wordpress.com/?page_id=260preview=true

Bleh I misunderstood how Wordpress public drafts work -- that url was 
apparently session dependant, but this works for everyone and apparently has a 
nice commenting system too:

http://realxtend.wordpress.com/?page_id=260shareadraft=4f7aa9fad8dfe

 ~Toni

same.

p.s. thanks to syymza on irc for pointing out the prob!

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Re: [realXtend] Re: Javascript. What is better 'global action' or hundred small 'actions'?

[Toni Alatalo]

On Thu, 2012-03-29 at 11:57 -0700, Vik wrote:
 I will go with single EC_Script ( normal programming :) )
 Even if ScriptEngine is performant, load  hundreds of EC_Script may be
 painful ( as Jukka said in issue 439   
 https://github.com/realXtend/naali/issues/439

No the point was that using the Script *Application* mechanism with
multiple EC_Scripts is performant -- then you again only get a single
engine. The same thing that Jonne mentioned and indeed the reference
Avatar app uses.

But yep I think a single EC_Script can still be nice.

 And I don't think in this case live reloading  will be useful...

I think it's always useful when developing :)

And you do get that with a single Script component too, it just resets
the whole app then.

 Vik.

~Toni

 On Mar 29, 1:49 pm, Toni Alatalo t...@playsign.net wrote:
  On Thu, 2012-03-29 at 09:41 -0700, Vik wrote:
   001,...door.099), i can attach to each object javascript for actions
   (say OpenDoor). Or I can attach one script to scene and in this
   script distinguish door by name at run time.
   Which solution is better. I mean 'better  from architectural point
   of  view of Tundra  in terms of performance  and memory consumption.
 
  I tend to make with one master JS and one EC_Script for the whole
  application. I like normal programming, and also that used to be way to
  make it efficiently (minimal mem use as there's only one ScriptEngine).
  Have that in an invisible entity called MyGame or so.
 
  The system is however made so that using a Script component in each
  scripted entity can be nice. For example for a non-programming level
  designer to put a script to an object. And nowadays there's the
  ScriptApplication system, which basically allows you to make several
  script components to be executed with a single engine, so you get the
  same optimally minimal memory usage. I think it's well suited for
  instanciating several entities that use the same script, basically
  declaring a class in JS and then marking entities in the scene as
  instances of that. Similar to the RexScript IronPython system in old
  realXtend with Linden based viewer and Opensim which is there in ModRex.
 
  One cool upside of using several EC_Scripts can perhaps be that the live
  reloading may work less instrusively as only one script engine is
  reseted and not the whole app. For example if you make AI for a predator
  and it's prey, can modify either code, just save the file so it gets
  reloaded in Tundra, and at least the other animal keeps working cleanly
  from the old state as it was untouched. It's possible to make a main app
  support restart too, quite easy perhaps even if keep the data in EC
  attributes (script's can create their own so-called DynamicComponents
  for custom data). The attribute values are ofc untouched when the script
  engine is reseted, so that state can always stay (position of the
  objects etc., but if you put e.g. some AI mode or tracking target in own
  DynamicComponent, that stays too.)
 
   Vik.
 
  ~Toni
 


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Re: [realXtend] Javascript. What is better 'global action' or hundred small 'actions'?

[Toni Alatalo]

On Thu, 2012-03-29 at 09:41 -0700, Vik wrote:
 001,...door.099), i can attach to each object javascript for actions
 (say OpenDoor). Or I can attach one script to scene and in this
 script distinguish door by name at run time.
 Which solution is better. I mean 'better  from architectural point
 of  view of Tundra  in terms of performance  and memory consumption.

I tend to make with one master JS and one EC_Script for the whole
application. I like normal programming, and also that used to be way to
make it efficiently (minimal mem use as there's only one ScriptEngine).
Have that in an invisible entity called MyGame or so.

The system is however made so that using a Script component in each
scripted entity can be nice. For example for a non-programming level
designer to put a script to an object. And nowadays there's the
ScriptApplication system, which basically allows you to make several
script components to be executed with a single engine, so you get the
same optimally minimal memory usage. I think it's well suited for
instanciating several entities that use the same script, basically
declaring a class in JS and then marking entities in the scene as
instances of that. Similar to the RexScript IronPython system in old
realXtend with Linden based viewer and Opensim which is there in ModRex.

One cool upside of using several EC_Scripts can perhaps be that the live
reloading may work less instrusively as only one script engine is
reseted and not the whole app. For example if you make AI for a predator
and it's prey, can modify either code, just save the file so it gets
reloaded in Tundra, and at least the other animal keeps working cleanly
from the old state as it was untouched. It's possible to make a main app
support restart too, quite easy perhaps even if keep the data in EC
attributes (script's can create their own so-called DynamicComponents
for custom data). The attribute values are ofc untouched when the script
engine is reseted, so that state can always stay (position of the
objects etc., but if you put e.g. some AI mode or tracking target in own
DynamicComponent, that stays too.)

 Vik.

~Toni


-- 
http://groups.google.com/group/realxtend
http://www.realxtend.org

natural language processing (Re: [realXtend] Digest for realxtend@googlegroups.com - 9 Messages in 2 Topics)

[Toni Alatalo]

On Mar 28, 2012, at 3:14 AM, Jonne Nauha wrote:
 You are really have to be a bit more specific if you want detailed answers. 
 How do I make X (or include it in Tundra)

Yes, it all depends on the details.

What do you want to do with it, and how? For what data, with what perhaps 
existing software? Some natural lang lib that you already use? Or suggestions 
of natural language processing tools?

If you want to e.g. have some system listen to the in-world chat, you can just 
integrate with that somehow. It is written in Javascript with the Tundra API 
(the chat messages are sent with entity-actions).

Or if you for example have some existing service for the NLP which uses XMPP 
transport, you can connect Tundra to that.

 In Tundra you make bigger features and functionality as C++ 
 plugins/modules. For example if you use other C++ libraries to

Or in Javascript or Python -- as for example the avatar and chat 
functionalities are in JS. And system things like IRC relay and and the Blender 
integration in Python .

Relaying chat messages to some service does not need C++, but if you plan to 
use some existing C/C++ nature language processing lib, then it can be nice to 
integrate it as a native Tundra plugin (which Jonne basically described).

 Jonne Nauha

~Toni

 On Tue, Mar 27, 2012 at 9:06 PM, Carlos carlos...@gmail.com wrote:
 Please, any idea about how can I include a conversation agent with natural 
 languages capabilities in a Tundra scene?
 Thanks in advance
 Carlos M Lorenzo
 
 El 27 de marzo de 2012 17:49, realxtend@googlegroups.com escribió:
   Today's Topic Summary
 Group: http://groups.google.com/group/realxtend/topics
 
 Script for a character in Tundra [2 Updates]
 Tundra Script [7 Updates]
  Script for a character in Tundra
 Vaibhav Vaidya vaibhav.vaidy...@gmail.com Mar 27 05:50PM +0530  
 
 Hii all,
  
 I am new to Tundra. I have created a scene. I want to attach a script to a
 character. I tried hard to write a simple script which moves the character
 to-and-fro when the client logs in, but got stuck.
 Can anybody suggest a sample script for above mentioned purpose??
 The entity name is UrbanFemale and it has only one animation Walk,
 animation controller name is UrbanFemaleAnimation.
  
 ~Vaibhav
  
 Ali Kämäräinen stinkfi...@gmail.com Mar 27 04:30PM +0300  
 
 Hi,
  
 Could you try to stick in one thread, instead of creating multiple threads
 for the same issue?
  
 Grey skies,
 Ali Kämäräinen
  
  Tundra Script
 Vaibhav Vaidya vaibhav.vaidy...@gmail.com Mar 27 03:17PM +0530  
 
 Hii all,
  
 var entityNameToFind = UrbanFemale.;
  
 function ShowAnimation()
 {
 var objectToAnimate = scene.GetEntityByName(entityNameToFind);
 console.LogInfo(Hey great, I found  + entityNameToFind + Starting
 animation);
 var availableAnims =
 objectToAnimate.animationcontroller.GetAvailableAnimations();
 console.LogInfo(availableAnims);
 }
 else
 {
 console.LogWarning(Entity  + entityNameToFind +  was not found or
 animation controller component is not there! Trying again in 1 second.);
 frame.DelayedExecute(1.0).Triggered.connect(StartAnimation);
 }
 }
  
 // Only run on client. One time animation enabling.
 if (!server.IsRunning()  !framework.IsHeadless())
 {
 StartAnimation();
 }
  
 Vaibhav Vaidya vaibhav.vaidy...@gmail.com Mar 27 03:29PM +0530  
 
 Hii all,
  
 I have written the following script. I checked Run on load to true. When
 I launch the client see the message:
 Hey great, I found UrbanFemale. but do not see the available animation.
  
 But when i go to view - scene - UrbanFemale. - AnimationController -
 functions - GetAvailableAnimations()
 It shows me the animation Walk.
  
 var entityNameToFind = UrbanFemale.;
  
 function ShowAnimation()
 {
 var objectToAnimate = scene.GetEntityByName(entityNameToFind);
  
 console.LogInfo(Hey great, I found  + entityNameToFind );
  
 var availableAnims =
 objectToAnimate.animationcontroller.GetAvailableAnimations();
 console.LogInfo(availableAnims);
 }
  
 if (!server.IsRunning()  !framework.IsHeadless())
 {
 StartAnimation();
 }
  
  
 Also, when i run the script view - scene - UrbanFemale. - Script - Run()
 This runs the script and shows the message:
  
 Hey great, I found UrbanFemale.
 Walk
  
 Am I missing anything??
  
 ~Vaibhav
  
 Vaibhav Vaidya vaibhav.vaidy...@gmail.com Mar 27 03:30PM +0530  
 
 Please ignore the previous part..
  
  
 On Tue, Mar 27, 2012 at 3:29 PM, Vaibhav Vaidya
  
 Ali Kämäräinen stinkfi...@gmail.com Mar 27 02:32PM +0300  
 
 GetAvailableAnimations() returns a list so you need to print each element:
  
 var availableAnims =
 objectToAnimate.animationcontroller.GetAvailableAnimations();
 for(var i = 0; i  availableAnims.length; ++i)
 console:LogInfo(availableAnims [i]);
  
 Grey skies,
 Ali Kämäräinen
  
 Vaibhav Vaidya vaibhav.vaidy...@gmail.com Mar 27 05:11PM +0530  
 
 @Ali :
  
 I tried this also but I see the same results.
  
  
 Ali Kämäräinen stinkfi...@gmail.com Mar 27 04:28PM +0300  
 
 I see that your script

Re: natural language processing (Re: [realXtend] Digest for realxtend@googlegroups.com - 9 Messages in 2 Topics)

[Toni Alatalo]

On Wed, 2012-03-28 at 10:13 -0700, Carlos wrote:
 Hi Toni, thanks for your answers and your good humor ;-)
 I like to know about how we can integrate scripting languages for
 conversational agents like AIML or MPML3D. Has Tundra just implemented
 a config and protocol similar to OpenSim or SL?

Yes one of the Javascript example / reference apps is chat. That's what
I called 'in-world chat'.

AIML seems to have implementations in e.g. C++, Python, Java etc. Of
these you can use C++ or Python directly in Tundra, so could write some
kind of a NLPPlugin or AIMLPlugin.

There's two options:

a) Tundra plugin which uses the e.g. AIML lib of your choice, listens to
events from the Javascript-written Tundra/reX simple Chat Application

b) a relay of the Tundra chat to e.g. XMPP, and then making a simple
XMPP bot which uses the lib. Connect those to the same server, or even
just use IM (the XMPP bridge (client) in Tundra can just send the
messages to e.g. your / the bots Google talk account or whatever).

This code basically has what both of those options need: 
https://github.com/realXtend/naali/blob/tundra/bin/pymodules/irc/serverrelay.py

That is: a) connecting to the Chat App qt signals in Python, and
listening to  receiving messages, which you could respond to here if
using the NLP lib directly, but in the case of this example it b) relays
them to an IRC channel (i've used it to monitor servers and to be able
to chat to inworld folks from irc) .. so if you'd go the XMPP route,
would just forward there similarily. I've been now devving stuff with
XMPP and also py written XMPP bots (to simulate kind of WebNaali clients
actually, for movement sync stress tests :) -- jabberbot
(pythonjabberbot in google code) makes it quite nice and easy, uses the
xmpppy library.

Here is was mostly assuming you want bots to the scene that participate
in the in-world chat. SL also has group chat. I would use something
existing for that with Tundra, probably XMPP. We already had a module
using that in the Naali 0.x versions, worked with google talk and
facebook chat and such. It is also possible to do groups etc. with the
own Tundra chat app, but the characteristics of SL group chat is that
it's not connected to the sims / regions. Just like a IM thing for
friends and groups.

~Toni

 More thanks
 Carlos M. Lorenzo
 
 On 28 mar, 11:14, Toni Alatalo t...@playsign.net wrote:
  On Mar 28, 2012, at 3:14 AM, Jonne Nauha wrote:
 
   You are really have to be a bit more specific if you want detailed 
   answers. How do I make X (or include it in Tundra)
 
  Yes, it all depends on the details.
 
  What do you want to do with it, and how? For what data, with what perhaps 
  existing software? Some natural lang lib that you already use? Or 
  suggestions of natural language processing tools?
 
  If you want to e.g. have some system listen to the in-world chat, you can 
  just integrate with that somehow. It is written in Javascript with the 
  Tundra API (the chat messages are sent with entity-actions).
 
  Or if you for example have some existing service for the NLP which uses 
  XMPP transport, you can connect Tundra to that.
 
   In Tundra you make bigger features and functionality as C++ 
   plugins/modules. For example if you use other C++ libraries to
 
  Or in Javascript or Python -- as for example the avatar and chat 
  functionalities are in JS. And system things like IRC relay and and the 
  Blender integration in Python .
 
  Relaying chat messages to some service does not need C++, but if you plan 
  to use some existing C/C++ nature language processing lib, then it can be 
  nice to integrate it as a native Tundra plugin (which Jonne basically 
  described).
 
   Jonne Nauha
 
  ~Toni
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
   On Tue, Mar 27, 2012 at 9:06 PM, Carlos carlos...@gmail.com wrote:
   Please, any idea about how can I include a conversation agent with 
   natural languages capabilities in a Tundra scene?
   Thanks in advance
   Carlos M Lorenzo
 
   El 27 de marzo de 2012 17:49, realxtend@googlegroups.com escribió:
 Today's Topic Summary
   Group:http://groups.google.com/group/realxtend/topics
 
   Script for a character in Tundra [2 Updates]
   Tundra Script [7 Updates]
Script for a character in Tundra
   Vaibhav Vaidya vaibhav.vaidy...@gmail.com Mar 27 05:50PM +0530
 
   Hii all,
 
   I am new to Tundra. I have created a scene. I want to attach a script to a
   character. I tried hard to write a simple script which moves the character
   to-and-fro when the client logs in, but got stuck.
   Can anybody suggest a sample script for above mentioned purpose??
   The entity name is UrbanFemale and it has only one animation Walk,
   animation controller name is UrbanFemaleAnimation.
 
   ~Vaibhav
 
   Ali Kämäräinen stinkfi...@gmail.com Mar 27 04:30PM +0300
 
   Hi,
 
   Could you try to stick in one thread, instead of creating multiple threads
   for the same issue?
 
   Grey skies,
   Ali Kämäräinen
 
Tundra Script
   Vaibhav Vaidya

Re: [realXtend] newbie question

[Toni Alatalo]

On Mar 23, 2012, at 7:51 AM, Vaibhav Vaidya wrote:
 I am also a newbie to Tundra. I started using it from last couple of days. I 
 also had the same questions when I first used Tundra.

There is one old documentation page about these, 
http://www.realxtend.org/doxygen/_tundra_documentfiles.html

It shows how those things are possible from GUI (windows explorer for example) 
too, commandline is not needed. Those screenshots are ancient, though (pre 
Tundra 1.0) -- i think a good documentation activity would be to take new 
screenshots of the windows explorer gui entries etc. and update that doxygen 
file by copy-pasting from Jonne's mail etc.

And put a link to that doc to the 'documentation' section on the webpage.

I can do something in this area at some point (probably not in a week though, 
plate full of programming things now) and as said Fred is working on docs .. 
perhaps you can do those updates?

~Toni

 By the way you need not create any account on the server. To launch the 
 server, go to the Tundra install directory and run the following command
 Tundra --config plugins.xml --headless --server --port 2345 --protocol udp
 
 Once you launch the server, run the client using following command
 tundra --config viewer.xml
 
 Login using any credentials (you may leave the password field blank), choose 
 UDP protocol over 2345 port.
 You should see a black screen (blank scene) once you login.
 Now, try creating a beautiful scene.
 
 Regards,
 Vaibhav 
 
 
 On Fri, Mar 23, 2012 at 4:48 AM, Lúthien luthien.meri...@gmail.com wrote:
 Hi,
 
 I'm interested in RealXtend and curious how it compares to OpenSim.
 Therefore I downloaded Tundra (for mac) today and well, tried to get
 it running. Since my experience is until now limited to Opensim I
 assumed that there is also a server and a viewer involved, but if
 I understand it correctly the Tundra application is both at the same
 time.
 
 I've looked on the Wiki, the doxygen documentation and whatever I
 could find to guide me on these first steps ... and I'm very sorry: I
 am obviously missing some basic concept because it makes no sense to
 me at all. I cannot figure out what to do with it.
 When I run the Tundra app it shows a kind of browser window, with two
 tabs in it.
 One says login, the other login.realxtend.org. The first one has
 three fields: one for server address, one for user and one for
 password - plus a radiobutton for choosing either UTP or TCP.
 But I thought that Tundra *is* a server, too? What should I then enter
 her to connect to itself?
 And also: how can I create an account on that server for me to use -
 if I can't login to - say - even create an account?
 If I try to connect with localhost filled in and my local username -
 just to try something - it says Could not connect to host localhost:
 2345 with TCP
 
 So indeed, I am missing something very basic - but the thing is, I
 cannot find a basic primer in order to get these basic concepts of
 RealXtend clear. Could anyone point me where I can find this
 information? I'd really like to give this a try, because it looks very
 promising.
 
 Many thanks!
 Lúthien
 
 
 PS Also, when I first ran the app there was a popup saying that there
 was an update available, and I downloaded it. But that download
 disappeared once done: there was no installer, and neither can I find
 a downloaded update anywhere on my disk.
 
 --
 http://groups.google.com/group/realxtend
 http://www.realxtend.org
 
 
 -- 
 http://groups.google.com/group/realxtend
 http://www.realxtend.org

-- 
http://groups.google.com/group/realxtend
http://www.realxtend.org

Re: [realXtend] newbie question

[Toni Alatalo]

On Mar 23, 2012, at 8:35 AM, Jonne Nauha wrote:
 One thing that we should maybe somehow fix is that our documentation like 
 that page you linked is located in our source repos. It's pretty damn hard 
 for technically novice people to clone the repo, make documentation fixes and 
 push a pull request to fix things. For this some kind of community wiki would 
 be nice. On the other had we probably dont want to have duplicates in many 
 places. Then they will just get out of sync with reality so much faster :P

Yes keeping in sync is why Jukka proposed of keeping most of the docs in the 
repo.

GitHub has a simple web ui for editing files btw, similar to wiki editing .. it 
does commits under the hood but the user doesn't need to know. Just click 
'edit' on the file.

The idea has now been that basics docs, a kind of a manual, would be in the 
central repo .. and then random tutorials for all kinds of things can be in 
blog and wikis etc. I'm not sure though, Blender for example uses a wiki very 
succesfully for manual. It does take a whole team of non-coder people who work 
on that there, they have own Blender documentation irc channel etc (I'm even 
not on that so don't know how they work). As you know we've been now using the 
github wiki a little and it seems good.

 Jonne Nauha

~Toni

 
 By the way you need not create any account on the server. To launch the 
 server, go to the Tundra install directory and run the following command
 Tundra --config plugins.xml --headless --server --port 2345 --protocol udp
 
 Once you launch the server, run the client using following command
 tundra --config viewer.xml
 
 Login using any credentials (you may leave the password field blank), choose 
 UDP protocol over 2345 port.
 You should see a black screen (blank scene) once you login.
 Now, try creating a beautiful scene.
 
 Regards,
 Vaibhav 
 
 
 On Fri, Mar 23, 2012 at 4:48 AM, Lúthien luthien.meri...@gmail.com wrote:
 Hi,
 
 I'm interested in RealXtend and curious how it compares to OpenSim.
 Therefore I downloaded Tundra (for mac) today and well, tried to get
 it running. Since my experience is until now limited to Opensim I
 assumed that there is also a server and a viewer involved, but if
 I understand it correctly the Tundra application is both at the same
 time.
 
 I've looked on the Wiki, the doxygen documentation and whatever I
 could find to guide me on these first steps ... and I'm very sorry: I
 am obviously missing some basic concept because it makes no sense to
 me at all. I cannot figure out what to do with it.
 When I run the Tundra app it shows a kind of browser window, with two
 tabs in it.
 One says login, the other login.realxtend.org. The first one has
 three fields: one for server address, one for user and one for
 password - plus a radiobutton for choosing either UTP or TCP.
 But I thought that Tundra *is* a server, too? What should I then enter
 her to connect to itself?
 And also: how can I create an account on that server for me to use -
 if I can't login to - say - even create an account?
 If I try to connect with localhost filled in and my local username -
 just to try something - it says Could not connect to host localhost:
 2345 with TCP
 
 So indeed, I am missing something very basic - but the thing is, I
 cannot find a basic primer in order to get these basic concepts of
 RealXtend clear. Could anyone point me where I can find this
 information? I'd really like to give this a try, because it looks very
 promising.
 
 Many thanks!
 Lúthien
 
 
 PS Also, when I first ran the app there was a popup saying that there
 was an update available, and I downloaded it. But that download
 disappeared once done: there was no installer, and neither can I find
 a downloaded update anywhere on my disk.
 
 --
 http://groups.google.com/group/realxtend
 http://www.realxtend.org
 
 
 -- 
 http://groups.google.com/group/realxtend
 http://www.realxtend.org
 
 
 -- 
 http://groups.google.com/group/realxtend
 http://www.realxtend.org
 
 
 -- 
 http://groups.google.com/group/realxtend
 http://www.realxtend.org

-- 
http://groups.google.com/group/realxtend
http://www.realxtend.org

Re: [realXtend] Tundra Framework

[Toni Alatalo]

Vaibhav Vaidya vaibhav.vaidy...@gmail.com kirjoitti Mar 16, 2012 kello 9:52 
AM:
 How to upload the content to the server?? or how to create a scene??

You can drag  drop txml, .scene and .mesh files to that black window. Open 
from menu view-scene the GUI to see outline of your scene. Right-click on 
object in the list and choose bottommost locate to see it.

Only one Tundra instance is enough for creating, don't need server and client. 
Can save scene from that same right-click menu in scene gui.

I'm on a iPhone now so not typing much, perhaps others can post more, but do 
ask if have further questions. I can tell more later.

Fred is making new tutorials. Are any ready yet?

 Vaibhav Vaidya 

-Toni


 -- 
 http://groups.google.com/group/realxtend
 http://www.realxtend.org

-- 
http://groups.google.com/group/realxtend
http://www.realxtend.org

Re: [realXtend] Tundra Framework

[Toni Alatalo]

Vaibhav Vaidya vaibhav.vaidy...@gmail.com kirjoitti Mar 16, 2012 kello 12:42 
PM:
 Now, I am able to host the sample scenes over Tundra. I want to create my own 
 scenes. Is there any GUI interface to create a scene (or world) and export it 
 to a .txml file??

Blender is one.

 ~Vaibhav

-Toni

  
 On Fri, Mar 16, 2012 at 2:15 PM, Jukka Jylänki juj...@gmail.com wrote:
 You are probably starting Tundra without any storage directories. This
 means that when you choose to upload, Tundra does not know the
 location to import the assets to.
 
 For instructions how to work offline on a scene, see the 'How to work
 offline' instruction text in Tundra start menu. If the steps are still
 cryptic, let us know, and we can try improving the help text file.
 
 2012/3/16 Vaibhav Vaidya vaibhav.vaidy...@gmail.com:
  Hey Toni,
 
  When I am dropping a .txml file to the black screen, it shows a Entity and
  Asset Import window and when I click Add content button a pop-up comes
  saying Starting upload failed. When right clicking any object, it doesn't
  show anything.. Am I missing anything??
 
  ~Vaibhav
 
  On Fri, Mar 16, 2012 at 1:50 PM, Vaibhav Vaidya vaibhav.vaidy...@gmail.com
  wrote:
 
  Thanks Toni,
 
  I'll try it out and throw you more questions if I get stuck ;)
 
  Regards,
  Vaibhav
 
 
  On Fri, Mar 16, 2012 at 1:39 PM, Toni Alatalo t...@playsign.net wrote:
 
  Vaibhav Vaidya vaibhav.vaidy...@gmail.com kirjoitti Mar 16, 2012 kello
  9:52 AM:
 
  How to upload the content to the server?? or how to create a scene??
 
 
  You can drag  drop txml, .scene and .mesh files to that black window.
  Open from menu view-scene the GUI to see outline of your scene. 
  Right-click
  on object in the list and choose bottommost locate to see it.
 
  Only one Tundra instance is enough for creating, don't need server and
  client. Can save scene from that same right-click menu in scene gui.
 
  I'm on a iPhone now so not typing much, perhaps others can post more, but
  do ask if have further questions. I can tell more later.
 
  Fred is making new tutorials. Are any ready yet?
 
  Vaibhav Vaidya
 
 
  -Toni
 
 
  --
  http://groups.google.com/group/realxtend
  http://www.realxtend.org
 
  --
  http://groups.google.com/group/realxtend
  http://www.realxtend.org
 
 
 
  --
  http://groups.google.com/group/realxtend
  http://www.realxtend.org
 
 --
 http://groups.google.com/group/realxtend
 http://www.realxtend.org
 
 -- 
 http://groups.google.com/group/realxtend
 http://www.realxtend.org

-- 
http://groups.google.com/group/realxtend
http://www.realxtend.org

Re: [realXtend] Tundra Framework

[Toni Alatalo]

On Mar 16, 2012, at 2:30 PM, Glenn Alexander wrote:
 tunnels under the terrain are important). I insert them into the scene by 

tunnels sound very cool :)

 hand-editing the txml file. Then tweak their location/size within the server 

is hand-editing somehow useful for you, or  could the dragdrop of the mesh 
file to the scene work too?

 worlds live (I think one of the Tundra devs is also a Blender dev, so they 
 appear to integrate quite well).

yes i used to work on Blender dev before reX (was very happy to be in the team 
for Elephants Dream :) -- Brett has made that live integration (last stages 
were sponsored by Adminotech) and I've also studied it through.

thank you very much in participating in the helping  sharing the info on what 
works for you!

 Glenn.

~Toni

 On Friday March 16 2012 22:29:44 Vaibhav Vaidya wrote:
 @Toni :
 
 Actually, I want to create a world which there is a large terrain, meshs,
 3d models with animation and scripting, etc. I think blender won't be
 suitable for my requirements (haven't worked on Blender before). So, is
 there any other tool which has all these functionalities. Or is it possible
 to create such a scenario in Tundra?? Very Desperate to know about it..
 
 ~Vaibhav
 
 On Fri, Mar 16, 2012 at 4:42 PM, Toni Alatalo t...@playsign.net wrote:
 Vaibhav Vaidya vaibhav.vaidy...@gmail.com kirjoitti Mar 16, 2012 kello
 12:42 PM:
 
 Now, I am able to host the sample scenes over Tundra. I want to create my
 own scenes. Is there any GUI interface to create a scene (or world) and
 export it to a .txml file??
 
 
 Blender is one.
 
 ~Vaibhav
 
 -- 
 Sent from my Debian Linux box - http://www.debian.org
 
 My technology does what I want, not what some corporation wants.
 
 -- 
 http://groups.google.com/group/realxtend
 http://www.realxtend.org

-- 
http://groups.google.com/group/realxtend
http://www.realxtend.org

Re: [realXtend] Meshes do not persist between two sessions in Opensim

[Toni Alatalo]

On Mar 14, 2012, at 9:13 AM, Vaibhav Vaidya wrote:
 problem?? What is the solution for this? or Is there a better way of doing it?

We all use Tundra, which is a new version of Naali which does not need Opensim 
(iincludes also server functionality).

If that has the features and functionality you need, it's a really nice, 
mature, stable, simple, fast etc solution :)

 Vaibhav Vaidya

~Toni

-- 
http://groups.google.com/group/realxtend
http://www.realxtend.org

Re: [realXtend] Re: Problem compiling Opensim-0.7.3 with ModRex

[Toni Alatalo]

On Mar 13, 2012, at 10:26 AM, Denis Tarasov wrote:
 you want from it. You will be far better either with stock opensim (it
 has mesh support now, anyway and MUCH more stable) or try Tundra
 (altrough, it also propably would not do what you want as it is, but
 can be made to, I think).

Yep -- whether Tundra already has the required functionality depends totally on 
the exact needs, of course. Likewise for Opensim.

 Denis Tarasov

~Toni

 
 On Mar 12, 3:41 pm, Vaibhav Vaidya vaibhav.vaidy...@gmail.com wrote:
 Thanks Mikko,
 
 ModRex complied successfully with Opensim-0.7.0.2. I made initial
 configuration changes and was able to setup the server but when I am
 connecting the realxtend Naali 0.3.4.1 client to it, its showing the
 following error :
 
 Login Failed, reason : destination not found.
 
 Please help..
 
 Thanks.
 
 On Mon, Mar 12, 2012 at 5:08 PM, Ali Kämäräinen stinkfi...@gmail.comwrote:
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 Hi,
 
 ModRex is discontinued techonology. The current focus of the realXtend
 project is on the Tundra technology. IIRC ModRex should compile with
 Opensim. 0.6.9.
 
 Grey skies,
 Ali Kämäräinen
 
  --
 http://groups.google.com/group/realxtend
 http://www.realxtend.org
 
 -- 
 http://groups.google.com/group/realxtend
 http://www.realxtend.org

-- 
http://groups.google.com/group/realxtend
http://www.realxtend.org

Re: [realXtend] Moving Avatar/Bots in real-time from an esternal positioning service

[Toni Alatalo]

On Mar 13, 2012, at 11:59 AM, Daniele Zanni wrote:
 To sum up, if  I got it correctly, there is no way to do it without touching 
 any  C++ code at the moment, either way?

if compiling is counted as touching, that may be correct. if you can compile, 
is simple to pull from the websocket branch and the c++ changes there are tiny.

if you can't compile and want to quickly do something, using the last 1.x 
release would give you a mature py env where everything works. if you decide to 
do that, i promise to get the basics to mainline 2.x soon enough so that you 
can easily migrate. is not really recommended though as 1.x is ancient, 
compiling better py support in or using qtscript/js is better.

~Toni

 On Tue, Mar 13, 2012 at 11:53 AM, Ali Kämäräinen stinkfi...@gmail.com wrote:
 What you are trying to accomplish should be totally doable in Python too. 
 However, the Python-side of Tundra is currently somewhat lacking, see 
 https://groups.google.com/forum/?fromgroups#!topic/realxtend/jNHCpZXrfio So, 
 either continue with Python and enhance the C++-Python wrapper a bit, or 
 implement the WebSocket part as C++ Tundra module, which you can access from 
 the QtScript/JavaScript, or just fully in QtScript/JavaScript. And of course 
 pure C++ implementation is possible too.
 
 -- 
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Re: [realXtend] Re: Problem compiling Opensim-0.7.3 with ModRex

[Toni Alatalo]

On Mar 13, 2012, at 12:03 PM, Vaibhav Vaidya wrote:
 @Denis : can u please throw some light on stock Opensim. What is it?
 I want to use the features of Opensim and don't want to go for Tundra.

stock just means normal Opensim. so if you need features of Opensim and don't 
have problem with it, just use it :)

BTW the old 0.x versions of Naali viewer can connect to plain / stock / vanilla 
Opensim too, doesn't need modrex, but then you would not get meshes as LLMesh 
didn't even exist then. But with slviewer 2 and 3 serieses you have mesh 
support (LLmesh over the wire, the viewer converts collada to llmesh and 
uploads to sl or opensim)

 Vaibhav Vaidya

~Toni

 On Tue, Mar 13, 2012 at 2:54 PM, Toni Alatalo t...@playsign.net wrote:
 On Mar 13, 2012, at 10:26 AM, Denis Tarasov wrote:
  you want from it. You will be far better either with stock opensim (it
  has mesh support now, anyway and MUCH more stable) or try Tundra
  (altrough, it also propably would not do what you want as it is, but
  can be made to, I think).
 
 Yep -- whether Tundra already has the required functionality depends totally 
 on the exact needs, of course. Likewise for Opensim.
 
  Denis Tarasov
 
 ~Toni
 
 
  On Mar 12, 3:41 pm, Vaibhav Vaidya vaibhav.vaidy...@gmail.com wrote:
  Thanks Mikko,
 
  ModRex complied successfully with Opensim-0.7.0.2. I made initial
  configuration changes and was able to setup the server but when I am
  connecting the realxtend Naali 0.3.4.1 client to it, its showing the
  following error :
 
  Login Failed, reason : destination not found.
 
  Please help..
 
  Thanks.
 
  On Mon, Mar 12, 2012 at 5:08 PM, Ali Kämäräinen 
  stinkfi...@gmail.comwrote:
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
  Hi,
 
  ModRex is discontinued techonology. The current focus of the realXtend
  project is on the Tundra technology. IIRC ModRex should compile with
  Opensim. 0.6.9.
 
  Grey skies,
  Ali Kämäräinen
 
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Re: [realXtend] Re: Tundra 2.3.0, Python work with Element

[Toni Alatalo]

On Tue, 2012-03-13 at 06:39 -0700, Vik wrote:
 About my use case... I just started to look at your platform, and
 first place where Python script will be useful it is on server part
 for validate username/password looking in MySQL for example... As I

Right - I actually did that with tundra1, authentication against
simiangrid (which is a apache+php+mysql thing for having user accounts
and info about them and world regions etc) in Python with xmlrpc,
https://github.com/realXtend/naali/blob/tundra/bin/pymodules/simiangrid/auth.py

That's exactly the sort of thing i meant with 'system integrations',
integrations to authentication, group, project management etc things.
Server side, where it is not a problem that it is trusted installed code
(javascript is good in the client side for downloaded code which is
executed in a sandbox).

 understand, this is not possible to use Javascript for that...

One thing to note there is that the Tundra JS environment is not limited
like the one in browsers -- just the programming language is the same,
but the API is different. In Tundra you have all of Qt + the Tundra API,
and for Qt there is the SQL extension which perhaps works for DB
connections etc nicely too. But still Python is more common in general
for such things (e.g. web backends with databases) and has lots of nice
libraries etc for that.

 Vik

~Toni


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Re: [realXtend] Re: Tundra 2.3.0, Python work with Element

[Toni Alatalo]

On Tue, 2012-03-13 at 06:16 -0700, Vik wrote:
 pick websocket branch and rebuild Tundra.
 As about looking to generic solution for boost ptr to raw ptr, I don't
 think I can be helpful.

I managed to add ScenePtr.get() to the Python API, so that instead of
having the old *Raw() variants of all sorts of getters, this now works
instead:

scene = sceneapi.GetScene(name).get() #get() for boost - normal pointer

I did not find a way to do the conversion automatically. Also I failed
to just add a generic exposing for all boost pointers, as qt slots can't
be templates etc., but that does not matter as we can just add EntityPtr
and ComponentPtr and the not-too-many other necessary ones separately.

Commit is in websocket branch and the websocket server now uses that
style to get the scene. I didn't remove the GetSceneRaw etc. yet as
other places are using it, but if we find that this add-extra-.get() is
an ok solution I can add that for the different types and make codes use
it. And put that to mainline so it comes to releases etc.

Commit is
https://github.com/realXtend/naali/commit/e72cb827c7fcbaee27b8258e616ee7bd2835fbd7
 .. it has also the failed generic attempt commented out, in case someone has 
clever ideas for it.

BTW we have a separate realxtend-dev list here for programming topics, I
suggest possible continuation of this and other deep code talks move
there.

 Vik

~Toni


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Re: [realXtend] Tundra 2.3.0, Python work with Element

[Toni Alatalo]

On Mar 12, 2012, at 9:06 PM, Vik wrote:
 How I can work with Element of Scene  in Python?

Python support in 2.x series has been lacking after the aggressive cleanups 
made (2.0 was largely a cleanup), but we've been slowly improving it as needed 
(we need it for the websocket server module, and the Blender integration thing 
needs it too).

Currently there is no new clean all-saving solution to the boost Ptr problem, 
but we've just worked around by adding some *Raw getters back -- but only in a 
branch, and only in PythonScriptModule, to keep the core clean.

That is in the websocket branch: 
https://github.com/realXtend/naali/tree/websocket

That branch basically only has py support additions and the Python written 
websocket server itself, so is safe to pull to your version. Is easy with git, 
do ask if you need help with that. Supposing you are building your own Tundra. 
If not, I guess I'll have to fix these for you for next release :p

 I can call for example
 el=tundra.Scene().MainCameraScene().GetEntityByName(entityName)
 But I can't use obtained element el at all - no attributes.

The websocket branch has a commit that gives you exactly that:

restore scene.GetEntityByNameRaw for py, as there is no EntityPtr handling 
(yet). this sufficed for websocket server to work now
https://github.com/realXtend/naali/commit/35a2a688062043c17aaf8be3b1f666b619a7

It is 2 lines of trivial code, so I hope you see how easy it is to add other 
similar things where you need them, for now:
QObject *TundraInstanceDecorator::GetEntityByNameRaw(Scene *scene, const 
QString name)
{ 
return scene-GetEntityByName(name).get();
}

With that technique the *Raw workaround thing is in the optional Python support 
module only, so we can even put them upstream to have in reX releases etc. if 
it's really needed. But idea has been to make a generic solution for all Ptrs:

 I understand that el is EntityPtr, not Entity as for example method
 GetEntityRaw(id) return.
 How i can convert EntityPtr to Entity in Python?
 And method GetEntityByNameRaw()  is obsolete now?

If automatic conversion of Boost-Ptr to normal pointer is not possible in the 
Python API (no one has afaik tried it yet), we can perhaps expose the boost 
get() method to py so that you would do:

entityptr = scene.GetEntityByName(myent)
entity = entityptr.get()

This would be a bit annoying but ok (given we can do the pointer handling 
correctly). If that is somehow not possible perhaps a function
ptrGet(somePtr) is possible.

If you have some c++ skills, feel free to try - patches are welcome. If not, 
please tell, so I or someone else here (Erno?) can try those.

We have been a little unsure of the need of Python support otherwise, so it is 
very interesting to hear that you are using it. There are some cases where it 
is more suitable than e.g. Javascript, I think mostly related to system 
integration things or anything where you need to use existing py libs. Also 
others just prefer it as the language is nicer. Would be nice to hear something 
about your use case if possible, but you don't have to tell of course.

 And example of plugin apitests.py does not work:
 PythonScript:  Python ApiRunner.testScene() failed 
 PythonScript: SceneAPI has no attribute named 'GetDefaultSceneRaw'

Yep that one is just not ported to 2.x, works in 1.x.

~Toni

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[realXtend] Study demos of browser based reX client techs

[Toni Alatalo]

Hi,

as mentioned in some emails earlier, and on IRC, we've been continuing work 
towards a browser based realXtend client here at Playsign.

We made a research report and a set of demos / tests with both WebGL and the 
new hardware accelerated 3d support in Flash11 (Stage3d) in December-January. 
There is now a public version of the report, suitable for generic realXtend 
planning. Also most of the demos are on-line now as public generic versions, 
without customer sensitive data.

The public google doc, Browser Based realXtend Client Technologies: 
https://docs.google.com/document/pub?id=1MEJ25wK_tjuDcXlgKVa9jsxRYLOTPGusX4pybGBn_DM
 . It's also linked to  embedded in 
http://www.realxtend.org/webnaali/research/, just to have a simpler address too.

The different demos are explained in the doc with screenshots, and a list of 
all the demos is gathered at the end.

Any feedback is very welcome -- it's a draft, open for a first round of 
comments. Especially interesting I think is views on what technologies would 
serve best the needs that you have in your own projects / products -- what 
browsers should be supported, how critical is it for users not need to install 
anything, what features are required etc. I'll post something to the 
website/blog too, after this initial round for comments.

We have a little meeting about possible future work in this area with tomorrow 
on Friday at the university as CIE has expressed interest. I will also talk 
with Jukka about how he sees the situation after doing tests with the native 
Tundra plugin again back in December. As mentioned in the intro of the doc, it 
might be a good idea to include an analysis of that route to the same tech 
comparison.

After the initial research we have now been working on one specific 
application, using Flash with Away3d now (is a normal commercial service where 
is good that works out of the box also for Internet Explorer users). The first 
step in that app is without networking otherwise, but we are using XMPP for 
chat -- tested both Flash (with the xiff lib) and HTML+JS (with strophe.js) 
clients succesfully. We could add a section about xmpp/chat things to the 
report too.

The old WebNaali 0.1 demo with WebGL + WebSockets and actual Tundra 
connectivity (http://realxtend.wordpress.com/2011/08/30/webnaali-demo-on-line/) 
has also been ported so that it works again with current browsers (with the 
final websockets spec) and against Tundra2. There is no on-line demo now, but 
the functionality is the same as in the video. I'll put the demo up again at 
some point when have time and can arrange a suitable server somehow.

~Toni

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Re: [realXtend] If there is any tools to parse XML files in JavaScript environment in realXtend Tundra?

[Toni Alatalo]

On Fri, 2012-02-24 at 10:37 -0800, Zhao Boxuan wrote:
 I'm going to make a demo using realXtend tundra, and there are some

Cool!

 xml files to parse. I try to use  new
 ActiveXObject('Microsoft.XMLDOM')  to do the parse job but it seems
 that the parser is not supported in the tundra JavaSript environment.

Heh, no that certainly is not expected to work out of the box. I don't
know what API that actually is even. Browsers which have active-x
support, any browser on Windows perhaps?

 Could anyone tell me if there's any tools I can use to parse the XML
 files?

Tundra itself uses Qt XML, and that is I think available to Javascript
(QtScript) too. The qt.xml extension.

I can make a test / little demo later, have never actually used that yet
(but it does seem nice on the c++ side with the XML DocumentObjects or
so).

I think the same ImportExtension thing that's used to load qt.core and
qt.gui in the examples in e.g. scenes/ dir should work for that too, and
then the Qt API docs (for c++ but the API is the same) should tell how
it works.

It is also possible to use pure Javascript libraries, if for example
JQuery has nice XML tools, but that Qt XML is native c++ code so should
be fast and I think nice too.

~Toni

P.S. I think we have the ActiveX support enabled in Qt too ('ActiveQt'),
so if that's needed for something else it's possible to use too. Not
needed for XML, but I think e.g. Flash works that way. (on windows when
Flash active-x plugin installed)

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Re: [realXtend] If there is any tools to parse XML files in JavaScript environment in realXtend Tundra?

[Toni Alatalo]

On Fri, 2012-02-24 at 14:44 -0500, 赵柏萱 wrote:
 Thank you for the detailed reply!

I made a quick / test example that should get you going:
https://github.com/realXtend/naali/blob/tundra2/bin/jsmodules/apitest/qtxml.js

Can run with:
./Tundra --headless --run jsmodules/apitest/qtxml.js

it walks the xml doc and prints tags. is made to run from the Tundra bin
directory (or the root in release) as expects the plugins.xml to be
there.

~Toni

 On Fri, Feb 24, 2012 at 2:27 PM, Toni Alatalo t...@playsign.net
 wrote:
 On Fri, 2012-02-24 at 10:37 -0800, Zhao Boxuan wrote:
  I'm going to make a demo using realXtend tundra, and there
 are some
 
 
 Cool!
 
  xml files to parse. I try to use  new
  ActiveXObject('Microsoft.XMLDOM')  to do the parse job but
 it seems
  that the parser is not supported in the tundra JavaSript
 environment.
 
 
 Heh, no that certainly is not expected to work out of the box.
 I don't
 know what API that actually is even. Browsers which have
 active-x
 support, any browser on Windows perhaps?
 
  Could anyone tell me if there's any tools I can use to parse
 the XML
  files?
 
 
 Tundra itself uses Qt XML, and that is I think available to
 Javascript
 (QtScript) too. The qt.xml extension.
 
 I can make a test / little demo later, have never actually
 used that yet
 (but it does seem nice on the c++ side with the XML
 DocumentObjects or
 so).
 
 I think the same ImportExtension thing that's used to load
 qt.core and
 qt.gui in the examples in e.g. scenes/ dir should work for
 that too, and
 then the Qt API docs (for c++ but the API is the same) should
 tell how
 it works.
 
 It is also possible to use pure Javascript libraries, if for
 example
 JQuery has nice XML tools, but that Qt XML is native c++ code
 so should
 be fast and I think nice too.
 
 ~Toni
 
 P.S. I think we have the ActiveX support enabled in Qt too
 ('ActiveQt'),
 so if that's needed for something else it's possible to use
 too. Not
 needed for XML, but I think e.g. Flash works that way. (on
 windows when
 Flash active-x plugin installed)
 
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 http://www.realxtend.org
 
 
 
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Re: [realXtend] Attempted Debian Wheezy compile (fail)

[Toni Alatalo]

On Sat, 2012-02-04 at 21:47 -0800, glenalec wrote:
 I am trying to compile under Debian/Testing and am hitting a snag. Not
(...)
 Using build-ubuntu-deps.bash as a reference, I successfully got all
 the required packages installed and a good chunk of the compile went
 through. The error occurred at this point:

That happens on ubuntu too with system Ogre - debian/ubuntu Ogres are
not found by the cmake stuff in SkyX, i don't know why really. Is in
tracker: SkyX does not build on stock Ubuntu 11.10
https://github.com/realXtend/naali/issues/320

We talked that can fix that in our copy of SkyX in the Tundra deps repo,
just need to make it find Ogre like Tundra itself does or somehow.
For graphical linux use i've been using a ppa for other reasons (to get
cg support) -- with that ogredev thing SkyX works, builds out of the
box. I think also for the Chiru folks which have recently switched to
using source builds Ogre, or?

SkyX is of course totally optional, the quick fix is to disable it. On
server especially as there it is not used, is just a sky rendering
plugin. This is how that is done (copy-pasted from the issue comments):

As a workaround, can comment out all SkyX -related items in
build-ubuntu-deps.bash, and set ENABLE_SKYX to 0 in
CMakeBuildConfig.txt

That CMakeBuildConfig.txt file is made by the build system, by copying
CMakeBuildConfigTemplate.txt to that name.

~Toni

 
 + SKYX_SOURCE_DIR=/opt/naali-deps/build/realxtend-tundra-deps/skyx
 + cmake -DCMAKE_INSTALL_PREFIX=/opt/naali-deps/install .
 -- Configuring SKYX 0.2.1
 -- Search path:
 CMake Warning at CMake/SkyXDependencies.cmake:59 (find_package):
   Could not find module FindOGRE.cmake or a configuration file for
 package
   OGRE.
 
   Adjust CMAKE_MODULE_PATH to find FindOGRE.cmake or set OGRE_DIR to
 the
   directory containing a CMake configuration file for OGRE.  The file
 will
   have one of the following names:
 
 OGREConfig.cmake
 ogre-config.cmake
 
 Call Stack (most recent call first):
   CMakeLists.txt:107 (include)
 
 
 -- Could NOT find Doxygen (missing:  DOXYGEN_EXECUTABLE)
 CMake Warning at CMake/SkyXDependencies.cmake:75 (find_package):
   Could not find module FindOIS.cmake or a configuration file for
 package
   OIS.
 
   Adjust CMAKE_MODULE_PATH to find FindOIS.cmake or set OIS_DIR to the
   directory containing a CMake configuration file for OIS.  The file
 will
   have one of the following names:
 
 OISConfig.cmake
 ois-config.cmake
 
 Call Stack (most recent call first):
   CMakeLists.txt:107 (include)
 
 
 CMake Error at CMake/Utils/SkyXMacroLogFeature.cmake:95 (MESSAGE):
 
 
 
  
 -
 
 
   -- The following REQUIRED packages could NOT be located on your
 system.
 
   -- Please install them before continuing this software installation.
 
   -- If you are in Windows, try passing -DSKYX_DEPENDENCIES_DIR=path
 to
   dependencies
 
 
  
 -
 
 
   + OGRE: 3D library needed for the OgreGraphics plugin http://
 
   + OIS: Input library needed for the OISInput plugin
   http://sourceforge.net/projects/wgois
 
 
  
 -
 Call Stack (most recent call first):
   CMake/SkyXDependencies.cmake:83 (MACRO_DISPLAY_FEATURE_LOG)
   CMakeLists.txt:107 (include)
 
 
 -- Configuring incomplete, errors occurred!
 
 
 Any pointers on where to look or what to do here?
 
 I have also installed libois-dev in addition to the listed
 requirements, but no difference.
 (This is prety much the same result as I am seeing on the Ubuntu build
 system at work too :-( )
 


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Re: [realXtend] compiling error (Ubuntu Oneiric 64-bit)

[Toni Alatalo]

On Jan 27, 2012, at 1:59 AM, glenalec wrote:
 Having yet another go at compiling here. Bogged at this point :-(
 Compiling the deps from build-ubuntu-deps.bash seemed to work, then:

If that script completes, it has built Tundra itself too. Is a bit badly named, 
as it doesn't only build the deps, but after those the the app/sdk itself as 
well. So did all of that script work for you, or did it fail at some point?

I've recently installed Tundra from scratch on Oneiric 64bit, to a server in a 
virtual machine (is running at playsign.fi both 2345 (now tcp) with knet and a 
test backend for the Flash (stage3d with away3d) client)). Works with the stock 
Ogre from Ubuntu etc (the ppa for ogre is not needed anymore, except to get 
shaders with cg, which I ofc didn't need on a headless server).

 /opt/naali$ NAALI_DEP_PATH=/opt/naali-deps/ cmake -Wno-dev .

After running the script, to rebuild after git pull or own modifications, just 
'make' usually suffices for me. If it borks about cmake probs after bigger 
changes in the project, I usually just run the whole build script again (as 
don't remember how to set that env var and am not sure if it suffices).

~Toni

 === Configuring Dependencies ===
 
 ** Configuring BOOST
 -- checking for module 'Boost'
 --   package 'Boost' not found
 -- checking for module 'boost'
 --   package 'boost' not found
 -- sagase: trying brute-force search
 -- sagase: BOOST Configure Results.
 -- -- Library Directories:
 --/usr/lib
 -- -- Libraries:
 --boost_thread
 --boost_regex
 
 ** Configuring QT4
 -- checking for module 'Qt4'
 --   package 'Qt4' not found
 -- sagase: configured QT4 using find_package
 -- sagase: QT4 Configure Results.
 
 ** Configuring PYTHON
 -- sagase: configured PYTHON using find_package
 -- sagase: PYTHON Configure Results.
 -- -- Include Directories:
 --/usr/include/python2.7
 -- -- Libraries:
 --/usr/lib/libpython2.7.so
 
 ** Configuring PYTHON_QT
 -- checking for module 'PythonQt'
 --   package 'PythonQt' not found
 -- sagase: trying brute-force search
 CMake Error at cmake/Sagase.cmake:269 (message):
  !! sagase: unable to configure PYTHON_QT
 Call Stack (most recent call first):
  cmake/ConfigurePackages.cmake:145 (sagase_configure_package)
  CMakeLists.txt:309 (configure_python_qt)
 
 
 -- Configuring incomplete, errors occurred!
 
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Re: [realXtend] Tundra goes to web.

[Toni Alatalo]

On Wed, 2011-12-28 at 18:10 +0200, Jukka Jylänki wrote:
 A small teaser of an upcoming project I got started on during this
 holiday season.
 http://dl.dropbox.com/u/40949268/TundraWebPlugin.png

Cool stuff!

 The image shows Tundra scenes embedded to web pages in Firefox and
 Chrome on Windows. The feature is very experimental (read, hacks all

We are also continuing on the web client front, with the different
approach of not using Ogre  Qt but stuff that's available in the
browsers. I see the whole browser issue as two fold, meaning either tech
that:

a) Works in a browser, so the user can open the world by opening the
familiar web browser and going to the right address. This is what the
plugin gives, and it can make a diff as people don't need to open
separate applications. The difference is not huge compared to using the
full client application, though, as you still need to download+install,
and also the current client opens automatically from web page logins.
But it might still make a crucial difference.

b) Runs without installing anything manually. This is the idea in the
WebNaali (or WebTundra if you prefer) effort with websocket  webgl - it
just works when those techs are available, without any downloads or
installs.

There's now a project that's interested in the b) approach, but that
requires voice (mumble-like talking with people). Reading the mic etc is
not available in browsers yet (WebRTC is in the works though), so we've
now been testing Flash. Flash client techs somewhat fit the b) 'no
install' requirement as some 90% of users have it preinstalled (for
example youtube still doesn't work without it by default).

For voice-in-browser / flash based voice we've now settled on at least
testing the pretty neat looking open source tech from
http://bigbluebutton.org/ . Also making a mumble voip plugin was in the
list of options - i suppose it can work in the plugin you've been
working on?

An interesting thing with Flash now is that it now (finally!) has
hardware accelerated 3d rendering support too. Even Unity3D has it as an
export target in the 3.5 developer beta that came out just before
christmas. Worked ok in our tests so far. Requires updating Flash to the
new version (11), though, but perhaps people do that anyway and new
machines seem to come with it preinstalled (at least a new macbook
did). 

We are now making scene rendering tests with the open source away3d
flash lib, which might be suitable for making a reX / Tundra compliant
client (similar to WebNaali). Benefit of Flash over WebGL is that it
works in all browsers (i.e. including Internet Explorer) and it may
possibly be faster (if that stage3d api does more in native code,
haven't checked nor tested yet). And presumably it works similarily in
all browsers (with webgl firefox is currently at least sometimes much
slower than chrome - opera is getting it too in 12 but we haven't tested
that). With the AIR runtime it may also work in iOS (iphoneipad) and
android devices, but I understood that those don't have the 3d support
yet.

No one seems to be a great fan of Flash nowadays (except the makers of
unity3d flash support who seem enthusiastic about that new runtime :),
but it can anyhow be a practical solution now in that customer project
for which we are making the tests. We can probably tell the results
later (by late January) and if it results in making some kind of a reX
client hopefully have that as open source normally etc. Flash itself is
proprietary but it doesn't prevent doing open source projects on top of
it, there are many out there.

 This approach is parallel to how Unity Web Player works. Perhaps it
 becomes a stable part of Tundra in the future.

Yes this might well complement the native Tundra offering.

BTW Unity3d also seemed to have a Google Native Client (NaCl) version of
the player now - that's pretty cool as that way native code can be just
downloaded and executed, in a secure sandbox, automatically without
manual installs. Unfortunately is again a Chrome only tech so far, the
spec is open and they hope other browser makers would implement it too
but I don't know if anyone will.

jj

~Toni


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Re: [realXtend] Avatar model

[Toni Alatalo]

On Dec 20, 2011, at 3:59 PM, Ali Kämäräinen wrote:
 Unfortunately these files seem to be vanished from the web. Luckily I could 
 locate them otherwise and they are now hosted at my personal DropBox:
 http://dl.dropbox.com/u/16413694/rex/realxtend_avatars_3dsmax.zip
 http://dl.dropbox.com/u/16413694/rex/realxtend_avatars_obj.zip

Great, thanks!

Also coincidentally we need the sources (blends) of the new avatars by Boris 
now again, he should be really putting them available this time .. so with some 
luck I can give URLs tomorrow for those too.

 Ali Kämäräinen

~Toni

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http://groups.google.com/group/realxtend
http://www.realxtend.org

[realXtend] blender conference talk video

[Toni Alatalo]

is up on youtube, thanks for the bconf folks - i posted about it to the 
http://www.realxtend.org/ blog .. 
http://realxtend.wordpress.com/2011/12/16/tundra-and-blender-integration-demo-presentation/

will need to install blender2ogre on more computers and configure it fully for 
the nice integration to work etc., has been really nice to have at hand -- 
thanks Brett for the work, and help with preparing the demo too!

~Toni

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Re: [realXtend] blender conference talk video

[Toni Alatalo]

On Dec 16, 2011, at 1:49 PM, Ali Kämäräinen wrote:
 Nice presentation Toni! Hopefully stirred some new interested in realXtend 
 and Tundra.

Thanks. And it certainly did! Was fun later that afternoon and also during the 
conference dinner in the evening, people came wondering if their scenes would 
work. 

They had they laptops and we just got the blends over with a mem stick, opened 
them in my laptop in Blender, pressed blender2ogre/rex's world update button, 
and saw it working ok there in Ogre :) .. and we could then use Tundra's EC 
editor etc to put SkyX in etc. 

One person had exactly that need: he needed a good realtime sky vis thing. 
Otherwise he was happy already with the Blender GE.

Other is a French robots lab where they currently already use the Blender GE to 
simulate environments for robot AI. The AI doesn't know whether it is in RL or 
just in simulation. They have need for networked things now, so reX-Tundra is 
interesting. We encountered only one prob: the still missing inverse kinetics. 
But that's a story on it's own.

And one person had nice laser scans, from the Acropolis in Greece actually - we 
tested it with the raw data, it ran fine (25fps in blender and 50 in 
tundra-ogre). 700k faces iirc. He had also the cleaned-up  optimized ones, but 
was interesting to see that heavy one. That took a bit of work, eventually I 
just disabled raycasting alltogether .. as it always crashed in the somehow 
invalid mesh data. Was a bit tricky to use when couldn't use mouse to select 
objects for editing, or use the 3d gizmo, but basically ok using scenestruct to 
find them etc :p But was fun to hack that after the dinner in the restaurant 
(film museum, actually). A couple of guys watched it from the start, the gdb 
debugging, so then got a tour of the codebase as i made the hack :p

 Ali Kämäräinen

~Toni

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http://www.realxtend.org

Re: [realXtend] For Interest: Dipping a toe in the Open Wonderland

[Toni Alatalo]

 technologies and jME would certainly 
work, but we don't know if Java is a way to go there, so far have been 
enthusiastic with the WebGL + Javascript based WebNaali thing.

Were you able to test Wonderland's voice BTW? I wasn't yet but heard it's ok - 
might be interesting to use that in WebNaali (browsers can't do VOIP yet 
without plugins).

Thanks for sharing the experience!

~Toni

-- 
http://groups.google.com/group/realxtend
http://www.realxtend.org

Re: [realXtend] How to add our own function to Tundra2?

[Toni Alatalo]

On Nov 30, 2011, at 9:05 PM, Zhao Boxuan wrote:
 I just downloaded the Tundra2.1.3 and its source code. I am planning
 to develop some motion planning demos on Tundra2. However, the
 documentation seems outdated and there is no instructions for how to
 edit the .txml file to make a new scene(add some CAD models) or add

We usually make scenes, at least any more complex ones and when doing new 
polygon modelling, in a modelling app like Blender or 3ds max or Maya or such.

From those you can export in the dotscene (.scene) format which is sometimes 
used with Ogre, and which Tundra can import directly.

The new blender exporter (blender2ogre) can also do txml, and has a nice live 
preview system.

If you just make a simple scene with existing meshes, you can just drag  drop 
those from filesystem to the tundra 3d window, to add them to your scene. With 
shift-e you get the entity-component editing window open, and that also enables 
the simple 3d manipulation gui.

TXML is not usually edited by hand, but Tundra with the scene structure  
entity component editors, + the 3d manipulation tools, is the editor.

 some new callback function(like mousemove callback or keyboard
 callback). The only thing now I can do is use the default demo.

The example scenes / applications are in the 'scenes' directory in release 
(bin/scenes/ in the source repo). Many of those have callbacks. 

The documentation of the core input api InputContext object, which has signals 
KeyEventReceived and MouseEventReceived, is at 
http://www.realxtend.org/doxygen/class_input_context.html#a0656a7bd87ae184eacaf1759169dbe05

Many applications, for example the simple reference / default avatar thing, 
uses entity actions for input .. e.g. 
https://github.com/realXtend/naali/blob/tundra2/bin/scenes/Avatar/simpleavatar.js#L431
 .. but that may not be necessary for you if you don't need to send your 
commands over the network to server.

 Could anyone tell me how can I start?

The interactive Python console, bundled in the SDK release, is one way to 
explore the api .. put test functions to key handling etc.

And JS with the automatic reloading is really nice -- just make a js file and 
e.g. that to a EC_Script in your scene (almost all of the example scenes do 
this), or to your plugins.xml to load at startup .. 

The default free camera js is loaded by 
https://github.com/realXtend/naali/blob/tundra2/bin/jsmodules/startup/cameraapplication.js
 from jsmodules/startup/ folder. the actual free cam script is also a nice 
example, with mouse and keyboard handling 
https://github.com/realXtend/naali/blob/tundra2/bin/jsmodules/camera/freelookcamera.js
 

You can also just do this to run a script: Tundra.exe --file 
/my/project/myscript.js .. to run that code at startup, and e.g. start 
listening to the mouse etc.

 Besides, I have some python script. I see there is a project called
 PythonScriptModule, so it seems like I can import my python script.
 Could anyone give me a short instruction to deal with that, or
 somewhere I can get help?

Python plugins can also be put to plugins.xml for loading -- there are a few 
ones ported to tundra2 now in the repo (the irc relay and the websocket server 
i think). 

There are also some unit tests written in Python which perhaps give the feel of 
the api nicely: 
https://github.com/realXtend/naali/blob/tundra2/bin/pyplugins/lib/apitests.py

So there's some pointers, please ask more to not get blocked. We are working 
towards next release, porting demos and updating docs etc also, but are happy 
to help here in the meantime too. And on #realxtend-dev on freenode irc.

Cheers,
~Toni

-- 
http://groups.google.com/group/realxtend
http://www.realxtend.org

Re: [realXtend] Avatar model

[Toni Alatalo]

On Nov 24, 2011, at 3:21 PM, Jonne Nauha wrote:
 Google code download section has this 
 http://code.google.com/p/realxtend-naali/downloads/detail?name=Naali-ExtraAvatars.zip

Those are the old ones, though -- the current default ones e.g. on the 
www.realxtend.org demo server are from the 4avatars project by Boris et al, are 
those available somewhere? They have the motion captured animations etc.

LVM / Chesapeake bay has other nice ones made with Evolver, AFAIK those are 
with the reX creative commons license too.

 Jonne Nauha

~Toni

 
 On Thu, Nov 24, 2011 at 3:04 PM, Teemu Siltanen teemu.silta...@gmail.com 
 wrote:
 Hi, 
 
 Is there anywhere downloadable version of the model used to create existing 
 meshskeleton of avatar? 
 With some googling it seems that it at least has been available at 
 http://realxtend.org/page.php?pg=downloads under Additional files, but those 
 links are broken now (I suppose that page shouldn't exist since there are no 
 links leading to it anywhere on http://realxtend.wordpress.com/).
 
 -Teemu
 
 
 
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 http://www.realxtend.org
 
 
 -- 
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 http://www.realxtend.org

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Re: [realXtend] Avatar model

[Toni Alatalo]

On Nov 24, 2011, at 3:48 PM, Teemu Siltanen wrote:
 I quess blender files would work fine as long as they are in modifiable 
 format. I couldn't find them by googling though, but if someone can upload 
 them somewhere it would be nice.

Boris said (in IM) that he can put them up, not right now but soon (I 
understood that within hours or a day or so).

 -Teemu

~Toni

-- 
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http://www.realxtend.org

Re: [realXtend] display Tundra 2.1.3 on internet browser

[Toni Alatalo]

On Nov 1, 2011, at 8:25 AM, Mikko Pallari wrote:
 AFAIK WebNaali currently works only on Chrome 13. Web socket implementation 
 has changed in Chrome's later version and that is why it doesn't work on 14 
 or 15. I don't know if there has been any development since I last checked, 
 but this was the status few weeks ago.

I actually got the basic port to a new websocket lib done last week on Friday 
evening (as part of preparing demos at the Blender conference..). Also the port 
of the websocket server to Tundra 2. It now works with current  dev Chromes 
(14, 15, and I hope the 16 and 17 and whatever they have).

Is currently in a branch, as had to do a little hack in the core AssetModule 
(to not try to communicate asset storage info with the knet mechanisms to 
websocket clients): https://github.com/realXtend/naali/commits/websocket

Next steps are to test more, update the demo, merge to mainline for the next 
release etc. Hopefully all that happens this week!

 As for the scene itself, it needs to be in collada format for the browser.
 I think that this is the latest readme for setting the service up: 
 https://github.com/realXtend/WebNaali/blob/master/README.mediawiki

Yep, instructions and documentation are to be improved, but have to get it 
fully working first.

 Mikko

~Toni

 
 On Tue, Nov 1, 2011 at 6:36 AM, chatpakorn prasertsung jaja...@gmail.com 
 wrote:
 Hi guys,
 just wonder, I have seen web-nali which can display on Crome and firefox.
 just a quick question...
 
 I have a Tundra scene created on version 2.1.3 and would like to
 display/run on internet browser...
 is it possible at this stage?
 can anyone guide me how to do or where can I find the information?
 
 thanks
 
 Neil
 
 --
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 http://www.realxtend.org
 
 
 -- 
 http://groups.google.com/group/realxtend
 http://www.realxtend.org

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Re: [realXtend] Re: Blender2Ogre 0.5.6 beta

[Toni Alatalo]

On Sat, 2011-10-29 at 01:46 -0700, MasterJ wrote:
 actually i have try to upload 2 cube, one big yellow and one little
 pink but on tundra i only have the big yellow cube any idea how to
 upload them all?
 if i'm right i must select all i want to upload before doing it right?

Yes, it syncs selected objects, so for full scene just select all
(ctrl-a).

I had problems with several cubes, it always replaced the old one with
the new when changed selection or something.

When added several differently named meshes (cube, cylinder, suzanne,
sphere, ..) they all showed and worked independently correctly. So I
think it is some naming conflict with the cubes, didn't quite get nor
debug it yet.

My presentation with general Tundra demoing + blender2ogre usage is
today at 1545 dutch time (now is 1122 so in 4,5hours), link to stream is
at http://www.blender.org/community/blender-conference/ .. hopefully it
works then too! *fingers-crossed* .. has been quite reliable actually
*knocked-on-wood*. Brett may will join remotely from Manila,
Philippines, too :)

 MasterJ

~Toni

 On 27 oct, 12:30, Toni Alatalo t...@playsign.net wrote:
  Thanks for the updates, Brett!
 
  I made some fixes to make it work properly for me:
  * Tundra launching sets Tundra's working directory correctly
  * (commented out lots of debug prints about material parsing)
  * Removed the use of the bpy namespace in the networking thread -- this 
  fixed a Blender stall that got otherwise always when deleted objects
 
  Pushed those to my clone 
  inhttps://code.google.com/r/antont-blender2ogre/source/list
 
  Am basically set now to demo at least the basics on Saturday (14pm Dutch 
  time) at the Blender conference, let's talk more on irc / skype / 
  something, perhaps could even arrange so that you could participate 
  remotely in the presentation .. if there are questions from the audience 
  etc.
 
  ~Toni
 


-- 
http://groups.google.com/group/realxtend
http://www.realxtend.org

Re: [realXtend] Blender2Ogre 0.5.6 beta

[Toni Alatalo]

Thanks for the updates, Brett!

I made some fixes to make it work properly for me:
* Tundra launching sets Tundra's working directory correctly
* (commented out lots of debug prints about material parsing)
* Removed the use of the bpy namespace in the networking thread -- this fixed a 
Blender stall that got otherwise always when deleted objects

Pushed those to my clone in 
https://code.google.com/r/antont-blender2ogre/source/list

Am basically set now to demo at least the basics on Saturday (14pm Dutch time) 
at the Blender conference, let's talk more on irc / skype / something, perhaps 
could even arrange so that you could participate remotely in the presentation 
.. if there are questions from the audience etc.

~Toni

-- 
http://groups.google.com/group/realxtend
http://www.realxtend.org

Re: [realXtend] Keeping everything together

[Toni Alatalo]

20.10.2011 20:20, Evan kirjoitti:

I have to be able to run the Tundra server with the .txml, and within
it, reference assets on the same server in a sub directory and not
have to point to an HTTP source.


The server can of course load them from it's local file system, but in 
that case the clients don't somehow automatically get them. So, with 
current code, the answer is no.


You can of course put a http server on that server, and make that serve 
that subdirectory, if it is the directory layout you are talking about.


If your need is to do Second Life style transfer of assets in the scene 
connection, that is possible to implement (Ludo has for example done 
something with knet asset transfers), but not available out of the box now.



-Evan


~Toni

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http://www.realxtend.org

Re: [realXtend] open/close door in Tundra2

[Toni Alatalo]

On Oct 20, 2011, at 3:34 AM, chatpakorn prasertsung wrote:
 the example can apply with Tundra 2.1 right?

can, yes, but does not now -- is untouched since 1.x (where worked), requires 
a little porting to 2 (just the usual *Raw removals in the .js etc)

 Neil

~Toni

 On Thu, Oct 20, 2011 at 3:52 AM, Toni Alatalo t...@playsign.net wrote:
 On Oct 18, 2011, at 5:38 AM, chatpakorn prasertsung wrote:
 
 I plan to have just a simple door open/close, by mouse click or auto
 when avatar close by.
 can any one guide me with one is more easier for starter?
 what step should I start to look into it?
 do we need to created animation before import the mesh file?
 
 There actually is a door example, in scenes/Door/ - bundled in release, and
 also available
 at https://github.com/realXtend/naali/tree/tundra2/bin/scenes/Door
 the source
 is 
 https://github.com/realXtend/naali/blob/tundra2/bin/scenes/Door/door.coffee 
 (when
 porting the door from python to javascript, used the opportunity to test
 Coffeescript -- that is a nice lang which is generated to js -- the
 coffee.js is what Tundra uses to run and that's readable too if you prefer
 normal js syntax)
 It is not ported to tundra2 yet and not documented, but works and is
 actually quite featureful.
 As the model uses a sliding door that is rigged and skeletally animated (in
 Blender). The door has also custom data, as it can be locked, and there are
 custom gui buttons to control it too.
 
 I have just little knowledge about coding  in Action script , so is it
 possible to achieve it by my skill?
 or you think it is too complicate for me.
 
 It is simple, certainly doable with Flash .as experience (.as is also .js,
 and the Tundra js api is not awful).
 I port the example to current as soon as get a chance, and can answer
 questions in the meantime.
 
 Chatpakorn
 
 ~Toni
 
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Re: [realXtend] realXtend server aborting on startup

[Toni Alatalo]

On Oct 18, 2011, at 5:22 PM, Warren wrote:
 start Tundra.exe --server --headless --protocol UDP  --file C:\tundra
 2. Fails after the following lines:
 Renderer: Initializing Ogre
 *-*-* Initializing Ogre
 *-*-* Version 1.7.3 (Cthugha)
 One of the output lines of code from Tundra reports we are trying to
 start Tundra as a Windows GUI and then proceeds to open a command
 prompt and then begins the startup.

would using the nullrenderer help here? 

did it work just by editing Ogre's config, disabling the direct-x  opengl 
plugins? like this in plugins.cfg
# Render systems
Plugin=RenderSystem_Direct3D9
Plugin=RenderSystem_GL
Plugin=RenderSystem_NULL

to:
#Plugin=RenderSystem_Direct3D9
#Plugin=RenderSystem_GL
Plugin=RenderSystem_NULL

i can test when am on windows at some point, now on a mac.

i wonder what that 'start as Windows GUI' means exactly.

 Warren

~Toni

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http://www.realxtend.org

Re: [realXtend] Re: Web Cam

[Toni Alatalo]

On Oct 14, 2011, at 7:17 PM, Evan wrote:
 possibly help me with the syntax for the Entity, Component and
 Attributes for implementing the EC_MediaPlayer into the .txml file?

You don't usually edit the XML by hand - instead, use the scene  entity 
editing GUI, for example:

- open scenestruct (shift-s or menu - view - scene)
- right-click on the entity where you want to show a video stream
- choose 'add component'
- select MediaPlayer in the dropdown dialog
- after adding the component, doubleclick on the entity to get it open in 
EC-editor and set the params
 * they are update live, not only to you but to only clients
- save the scene from scene-window - rightclick - 'save scene as' when done.

 Evan

~Toni

 On Oct 14, 10:40 am, Jonne Nauha jo...@adminotech.com wrote:
 That webcam module I made wont help you get image from web or share you
 webcam to others. It was only meant for local viewing of webcam, which is
 not very useful tbh.
 
 We do however have EC_MediaPlayer that can play video streams. So just get
 the webcams stream url and put it to the ECs media ref and hit play, see
 what happens. Remember to keep the streaming allowed boolean true (the
 default). Make some mesh, then apply EC_MediaPlayer to the same entity.
 Check interactive true, youll get a menu when you click the screen to
 play/pause/show 2D player widget.
 
 Best regards,
 Jonne Nauha
 Adminotech developer
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 On Fri, Oct 14, 2011 at 3:21 PM, Evan cyber...@gmail.com wrote:
 Heyall,
 
 I see mention of a web cam at
 http://wiki.realxtend.org/index.php/Getting_Started_with_Tundra
 under 1.0.6 features and am wondering if there's a way to implement it
 in Tundra 2.1.1.
 
 I'd like to be able to view a webcam I have setup remotely.
 
 Thank you ever again,
 
 Evan
 
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 http://www.realxtend.org
 
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 http://www.realxtend.org

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Re: [realXtend] Re: Web Cam

[Toni Alatalo]

On Oct 14, 2011, at 7:57 PM, Toni Alatalo wrote:
 * they are update live, not only to you but to only clients

bleh sent too quickly  tired, made confusing typos apparently -- tried to 
mention:
they (the parameters in ec editor) are update live, not only to you but also 
to other clients

hopefully using the tools works for you!

 - save the scene from scene-window - rightclick - 'save scene as' when done.
 
 Evan
 
 ~Toni
 
 On Oct 14, 10:40 am, Jonne Nauha jo...@adminotech.com wrote:
 That webcam module I made wont help you get image from web or share you
 webcam to others. It was only meant for local viewing of webcam, which is
 not very useful tbh.
 
 We do however have EC_MediaPlayer that can play video streams. So just get
 the webcams stream url and put it to the ECs media ref and hit play, see
 what happens. Remember to keep the streaming allowed boolean true (the
 default). Make some mesh, then apply EC_MediaPlayer to the same entity.
 Check interactive true, youll get a menu when you click the screen to
 play/pause/show 2D player widget.
 
 Best regards,
 Jonne Nauha
 Adminotech developer
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 On Fri, Oct 14, 2011 at 3:21 PM, Evan cyber...@gmail.com wrote:
 Heyall,
 
 I see mention of a web cam at
 http://wiki.realxtend.org/index.php/Getting_Started_with_Tundra
 under 1.0.6 features and am wondering if there's a way to implement it
 in Tundra 2.1.1.
 
 I'd like to be able to view a webcam I have setup remotely.
 
 Thank you ever again,
 
 Evan
 
 --
 http://groups.google.com/group/realxtend
 http://www.realxtend.org
 
 -- 
 http://groups.google.com/group/realxtend
 http://www.realxtend.org
 
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 http://www.realxtend.org

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Re: [realXtend] Re: Mouse look/rotation doesn't work on AvatarApp with too many entities in Tundra 2 scene

[Toni Alatalo]

On Oct 11, 2011, at 2:46 PM, Teemu Siltanen wrote:
 Am I really only one with this problem or are everyone else using their 
 custom-made avatar scripts? I removed Tundra 2.0 and installed Tundra 2.1.1 
 without any traces of old version and still I have some problem with 
 Avatar-demo. It looks like the Avatar-entity loses mouse-inputmapper totally 
 when its entitynumber is around 100 and up. 

I was not able to repeat this. Did this on Tundra 2.0 on Mac OS X:

* start bundled avatar.txml (./Tundra --server --file scenes/Avatar/avatar.txml)
* select Fish entity in scenestruct, press command-c to copy it, and hold 
command-v to get 100 copies of it
(* watch the hilarious events as a constant stream of huge fishes spawns on top 
of each other and physics make them fly around :)
* login to the server with a client (./Tundra --config viewer.xml --storage 
scenes/Avatar/)
* got an av ok, could move with it etc.

 I've been banging my head to this for some time now and I would greatly 
 appreciate if anyone could help me with this.

As no one has been able to repeat so far, I think is best to debug in your 
environment.

 - Teemu

~Toni

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Re: [realXtend] Re: Mouse look/rotation doesn't work on AvatarApp with too many entities in Tundra 2 scene

[Toni Alatalo]

On Oct 15, 2011, at 3:02 AM, Toni Alatalo wrote:
 Tundra 2.1.1 without any traces of old version and still I have some problem 
 with Avatar-demo. It looks like the Avatar-entity loses mouse-inputmapper 
 totally when its entitynumber is around 100 and up. 
 was not able to repeat this. Did this on Tundra 2.0 on Mac OS X:

oh I think something weird did happen to me too: mouse scroll (to move cam 
closer / further from av, the third person cam) continues to work, but looks as 
if doing the rotation with rightbutton-drag stops working. connected a mouse to 
the mac to be able to test better.

will test on other platforms too later.

as Jonne said there are scenes with hundreds of entities, which are used with 
av app, and we haven't been aware of probs .. i guess people do use mouse 
rotate for av so often that it would have popped out. is possible that is a 
version diff, at least the admino hosting system has some modified version of 
the av app.

 ~Toni

same.

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Re: [realXtend] localDir

[Toni Alatalo]

On Oct 13, 2011, at 7:07 PM, Evan wrote:
 Would anyone know how to properly utilize localDir for
 HttpAssetStorage?
 I'm trying to run a Tundra 2.1 server with local assets at 'C:\tundra
 \working\assets\' and the .txml file at 'C:\tundra\working\'
 Then I'll use the client software to connect remotely via the server's
 IP address.

You need to put your dir somewhere to where there is HTTP access.

Your personal webspace, or even dropbox, works for developing and testing.

Some web hosting service then for for lots of usage.

 Am I going about it the wrong way by putting in --file when I run
 tundra.exe for server? Is there a better way of handling import of
 assets? Do I need to place the .txml file and assets elsewhere?

--file is good for the server, to load the scene. Similar to how you can load 
OAR archives in Opensimulator, if you have happened to use that earlier.

But indeed the assets need to be on the web.

The TXML doesn't need to be on the web, as the scene data that is read from it 
on the server, is what is synched from Tundra server to clients when you login 
and use the server.

 I have so many questions and there seems to be a lack of current
 documentation for the latest Tundra server.

Almost everything is the same as for 1 series, the change to 2 was more in the 
internals.

The new thing in 2 is that you don't need to convert asset references (e.g. 
my.mesh) in your txml when you use it on the server, as the server can tell a 
base url like thing (default storage, the url prefix basically) during login.

 I appreciate all help, even if it's a step by step.

Thank you :) .. so at least now you know that need to use some http server for 
http access -- Tundra itself doesn't have one for asset serving purposes (it 
does have some http handlers in optional modules for other purposes).

I've so far been doing the annoying asset ref conversions (with scene 
publishing scripts) that Tundra1 required, am still not fully familiar with the 
base url / relative refs / default storage thing in 2 .. but have seen the 
console messages from it when running Tundra recently, and seems that it worked 
correctly automatically for me.

 Evan


~Toni

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Re: [realXtend] Re: localDir

[Toni Alatalo]

13.10.2011 19:33, Evan kirjoitti:

According to 
http://groups.google.com/group/realxtend-dev/browse_thread/thread/166a75aa4a8ef0d9
assets do not need to be placed where there is HTTP access using
'localDir=' in 'HttpAssetStorage'


Ah now I know what you mean -- that localDir setting is apparently to 
tell the server process that it can load the files directly from disk, 
in the case that they are hosted on the same machine.


But also with that you still need something else, e.g. a http server, to 
provide them for clients.


There is currently no mechanism to transfer assets from the simulation 
to clients, in the client connection, but instead external connections 
(often to separate asset servers) are used. We know that it's different 
in SL originally, and transferring assets in the same knet tundra 
connection would be possible, but is not there now. Also Linden 
introduced using http for textures a while ago.


Anyhow, perhaps just using a web server works for you too? Mac OS X 
comes with apache that is easy to enable from preferences, Windows comes 
with IIS iirc and you can install apache or whatever, and is well 
supported in the Linux lands of course. Or?



Evan


~Toni


On Oct 13, 11:18 am, Toni Alatalot...@playsign.net  wrote:

On Oct 13, 2011, at 7:07 PM, Evan wrote:


Would anyone know how to properly utilize localDir for
HttpAssetStorage?
I'm trying to run a Tundra 2.1 server with local assets at 'C:\tundra
\working\assets\' and the .txml file at 'C:\tundra\working\'
Then I'll use the client software to connect remotely via the server's
IP address.

You need to put your dir somewhere to where there is HTTP access.

Your personal webspace, or even dropbox, works for developing and testing.

Some web hosting service then for for lots of usage.


Am I going about it the wrong way by putting in --file when I run
tundra.exe for server? Is there a better way of handling import of
assets? Do I need to place the .txml file and assets elsewhere?

--file is good for the server, to load the scene. Similar to how you can load 
OAR archives in Opensimulator, if you have happened to use that earlier.

But indeed the assets need to be on the web.

The TXML doesn't need to be on the web, as the scene data that is read from it 
on the server, is what is synched from Tundra server to clients when you login 
and use the server.


I have so many questions and there seems to be a lack of current
documentation for the latest Tundra server.

Almost everything is the same as for 1 series, the change to 2 was more in the 
internals.

The new thing in 2 is that you don't need to convert asset references (e.g. 
my.mesh) in your txml when you use it on the server, as the server can tell a 
base url like thing (default storage, the url prefix basically) during login.


I appreciate all help, even if it's a step by step.

Thank you :) .. so at least now you know that need to use some http server for 
http access -- Tundra itself doesn't have one for asset serving purposes (it 
does have some http handlers in optional modules for other purposes).

I've so far been doing the annoying asset ref conversions (with scene 
publishing scripts) that Tundra1 required, am still not fully familiar with the 
base url / relative refs / default storage thing in 2 .. but have seen the 
console messages from it when running Tundra recently, and seems that it worked 
correctly automatically for me.


Evan

~Toni


--
http://groups.google.com/group/realxtend
http://www.realxtend.org

Re: [realXtend] Re: Avatars on Local Host

[Toni Alatalo]

On Oct 13, 2011, at 10:11 PM, Evan wrote:
 Even when I load the avatar.txml scene as the server, I'm inside a
 camera and not an avatar.

That avatarapplication.js does not give avatars to the server, only to clients 
that connect to a server where the av app is running.

The appearance file it uses is default_avatar.avatar -- a reX av xml file that 
points to Jack.mesh. Apparently with local:// refs now in at least the 2.1.0 
release which am using on this mac. To get avatars show, you need clients to 
find that av xml and the meshes (and further the materials and textures) used.

~Toni

 On Oct 12, 4:22 am, Ali Kämäräinen stinkfi...@gmail.com wrote:
 Hi,
 
 The easiest way is to use the existing Avatar demo scene in
 bin/scenes/Avatar and add it to your own scene/application.
 See this recent thread for more 
 information:http://groups.google.com/group/realxtend-dev/browse_thread/thread/1e4...
 
 Grey skies,
 Ali Kämäräinen
 
 -- 
 http://groups.google.com/group/realxtend
 http://www.realxtend.org

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http://www.realxtend.org

Re: [realXtend] Avatar in avatar scene do not move

[Toni Alatalo]

On Oct 12, 2011, at 11:53 AM, Daniele Zanni wrote:
 I am new here. I was trying during these days the realXtend Tundra 
 environment (2.1.1). Anyhow, launching the Avatar demo I get a Error: 
 TypeError: Result of expression 'scene.EmitEntityCreatedRaw' [undefined]
 Error: anonymous()@local://avatarapplication.js:113

The *Raw in the function name suggests this version of the av app would be old.

Is it from the release?

Current avatarapplication.js in my dev env doesn't have 'Raw' anywhere. Is 
unchanged since 2.1.* releases, so just using the js from the release should 
work.

*Raw was a workaround we needed in Tundra1 which has been removed since, the 
kind of syntactical javascript changes that the conversion tool in 
tools/tundra1-js-to-tundra2.py handles .. apparently doesn't have this emit 
thing there though.

 Daniele Zanni

~Toni

-- 
http://groups.google.com/group/realxtend
http://www.realxtend.org

Re: [realXtend] Logging chat messages

[Toni Alatalo]

On Oct 10, 2011, at 12:16 PM, Carlos wrote:
 Please, could you help me about how can I log the chat messages in
 centralized database?

Are you talking about the simple js chat app in Tundra demo scenes?

With that you can either just add your db saving code straight there, or make 
another script/module that listens the the chat app actions and does the saving.

The place directly in the app itself is where the server receives  relays the 
messages in: 
https://github.com/realXtend/naali/blob/tundra2/bin/scenes/ChatApplication/ChatApplication.js#L45

And an example of a separate module that works with the chat app is:
https://github.com/realXtend/naali/blob/tundra/bin/pymodules/irc/serverrelay.py

Doing the db stuff is normal, the same way as you would otherwise with your db 
 programming language of choice (c++, qtscript (js with the qt apis) and 
python being the options that you have ready at hand here).

 Carlos M.

~Toni

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http://groups.google.com/group/realxtend
http://www.realxtend.org

Re: [realXtend] Content not loading on Localhost

[Toni Alatalo]

On Oct 11, 2011, at 6:11 AM, Evan wrote:
 In CMD I do:  Tundra.exe --headless --server --ogrecapturetopwindow
 I run the client from Start Menu and connect to 127.0.0.1:2345 and I
 get the black screen, no problem.
 I then take my .txml file (at E:\RealXtend\OgreMeshTests\) and drag
 and drop and go through the motions to add the object.

When working locally, I usually do this a bit diffently:

1) have a dir with my project, with the scene txml
2) open the server by specifying that txml, either:
 a) doubleclick the txml
 b) do Tundra --file d:\myproj\myscene.txml

Then if need to connect to it in client mode too, start a client with --storage 
d:\myproj\ option. 

Nowadays the server can also communicate this storage conf to the client, but 
iirc it requires setting some additional param to the server. Ali gave the 
instructions once on irc, --help doesn't seem to doc that, we need to add it 
there and in some docs I figure.

 When I click Add Content it just hangs and in the server window I
 get a message in yellow Warning: Server specified the client to use
 the storage System as default, but it is not a replicated storage!

The procedure above sets d:\myproj\ as the default storage on the server.

If you just do plain Tundra.exe without --file or --storage, it uses 'System' 
storage, which IIRC is the data folder in the program files or your windows 
appdata or somewhere, not usually the thing that you want anyway.

With the way described here, dragdropping meshes or txml snippets etc. adds 
the referenced assets (materials, textures) etc. to your project directory 
automatically. For just building a scene you don't need separate server and 
client, but can just run Tundra (as what I call) standalone .. if you omit 
--headless from the server run, it works like a viewer for building (but 
doesn't get avatars, client side chat ui etc. because those scripts are 
specified to give the ui in client mode only).

Hopefully this clarified something,
~Toni

-- 
http://groups.google.com/group/realxtend
http://www.realxtend.org

Re: tundra1 to 2 conversions (Re: [realXtend] black screen after login for Tundra 2.0)

[Toni Alatalo]

On Sep 25, 2011, at 7:45 AM, hui ning hning...@gmail.com wrote:
 Could Tundra 2 read in scenes in Tundra 1 format? When Tundra

Yes I think that is the way for static content - add a feature that does the 
coordsys change (just one rotate).

 client2 login to login.realxtend.org, is the scene of Tundra2 format or 
 Tundra1 format?

That has been 2.0.0 since the release of that.

We are now preparing 2.1.0, more info about that in a few days. It doesn't 
change the scene format, is more about internal and networking improvements.

 - Hui

-Toni

 
 On Thu, Sep 22, 2011 at 9:19 PM, Toni Alatalo t...@playsign.net wrote:
 On Sep 23, 2011, at 1:17 AM, hui ning hning...@gmail.com wrote:
 Could I use Blender to read back the created *txml and associated scene 
 attribute files? 
 
 Not currently, there is no txml import for blender AFAIK. Would be simple to 
 add though.
 
 Both b2rex and now also blender2ogre (brett's tundra exporter have 
 expwrimental Blender live connection, though. And b2ogre can write txml. 
 Could read it too .. But usually we have the original blend anyway already.
 
 - Hui
 
 -Toni
 
 
 On Thu, Sep 22, 2011 at 4:56 AM, Toni Alatalo t...@playsign.net wrote:
 
 On Sep 22, 2011, at 11:29 AM, hui ning wrote:
 
 http://80.75.107.153/Tundra2/Tundra-2.0-preview.exe to my windows 7(64), 
 somehow it did not execute. 
 
 weird, i can probably test later today. unless someone else digs up the 
 ported physics scene earlier.
 
 What's the typical procedure to port a scene to 2.0?
 
 for this physics one is best to use the already ported version, but in 
 general, there is two areas:
 
 1. coordinate space
 In tundra1 (and earlier versions of Naali before that) we used the second 
 life / opensim coordinate system, where z is up (i don't remember the 
 handedness). this was hardcoded in some places. In tundra2 there is no 
 similar hardcoding, you can basically put your objects which way you want, 
 and it also works to just open tundra1 scenes and they show correctly. But 
 there are many places that assume the usual Ogre coordinate system, where y 
 is up: skyx, hydrax, how our bullet physics does gravity, the avatar 
 application etc. So to convert from 1 to 2 we often need to rotate the 
 scene. I haven't actually done that myself yet, was originally planning 
 making a standalone converter script for it, but later learned that perhaps 
 is simpler actually to make Tundra2 support opening t1 files and doing that 
 conversion then (e.g. just have a menu entry for it). For Pong I just 
 re-imported the blender-made .scene file to t2 so got all the objects right.
 
 2. scripting api
 for apps with scripting there is a lot of small syntactic changes, this 
 conversion tool is the best documentation we have for those so far .. the 
 replaces at 
 https://github.com/realXtend/naali/blob/tundra2/tools/tundra1-js-to-tundra2.py#L85
 
 - Hui
 
 ~Toni
 
 
 On Wed, Sep 21, 2011 at 4:46 PM, Glenn Alexander glena...@exemail.com.au 
 wrote:
 I had SkyX et.al. running beautifully on 2.0pre (where that screenshot came
 from too). Haven't had time to get 2.0 working with my own scene (that the
 .pre was happy with) yet, so can't speak for that release.
 
 On Thursday September 22 2011 07:18:01 Toni Alatalo wrote:
  Ah, indeed, this screenshot from the original tundra2 preview email shows
  the Physics demo with SkyX and HydraX:
  http://80.75.107.153/Tundra2/SkyXHydrax.png
 
  Didn't download the exe to see if it's there, as am on mac now. That's
  http://80.75.107.153/Tundra2/Tundra-2.0-preview.exe
 
   Ali Kämäräinen
 
   ~Toni
 
 Glenalec
 
 --
 http://groups.google.com/group/realxtend
 http://www.realxtend.org
 
 
 -- 
 http://groups.google.com/group/realxtend
 http://www.realxtend.org
 
 -- 
 http://groups.google.com/group/realxtend
 http://www.realxtend.org
 
 -- 
 http://groups.google.com/group/realxtend
 http://www.realxtend.org
 
 -- 
 http://groups.google.com/group/realxtend
 http://www.realxtend.org
 
 -- 
 http://groups.google.com/group/realxtend
 http://www.realxtend.org

-- 
http://groups.google.com/group/realxtend
http://www.realxtend.org

tundra1 to 2 conversions (Re: [realXtend] black screen after login for Tundra 2.0)

[Toni Alatalo]

On Sep 22, 2011, at 11:29 AM, hui ning wrote:

 http://80.75.107.153/Tundra2/Tundra-2.0-preview.exe to my windows 7(64), 
 somehow it did not execute. 

weird, i can probably test later today. unless someone else digs up the ported 
physics scene earlier.

 What's the typical procedure to port a scene to 2.0?

for this physics one is best to use the already ported version, but in general, 
there is two areas:

1. coordinate space
In tundra1 (and earlier versions of Naali before that) we used the second life 
/ opensim coordinate system, where z is up (i don't remember the handedness). 
this was hardcoded in some places. In tundra2 there is no similar hardcoding, 
you can basically put your objects which way you want, and it also works to 
just open tundra1 scenes and they show correctly. But there are many places 
that assume the usual Ogre coordinate system, where y is up: skyx, hydrax, how 
our bullet physics does gravity, the avatar application etc. So to convert from 
1 to 2 we often need to rotate the scene. I haven't actually done that myself 
yet, was originally planning making a standalone converter script for it, but 
later learned that perhaps is simpler actually to make Tundra2 support opening 
t1 files and doing that conversion then (e.g. just have a menu entry for it). 
For Pong I just re-imported the blender-made .scene file to t2 so got all the 
objects right.

2. scripting api
for apps with scripting there is a lot of small syntactic changes, this 
conversion tool is the best documentation we have for those so far .. the 
replaces at 
https://github.com/realXtend/naali/blob/tundra2/tools/tundra1-js-to-tundra2.py#L85

 - Hui

~Toni

 
 On Wed, Sep 21, 2011 at 4:46 PM, Glenn Alexander glena...@exemail.com.au 
 wrote:
 I had SkyX et.al. running beautifully on 2.0pre (where that screenshot came
 from too). Haven't had time to get 2.0 working with my own scene (that the
 .pre was happy with) yet, so can't speak for that release.
 
 On Thursday September 22 2011 07:18:01 Toni Alatalo wrote:
  Ah, indeed, this screenshot from the original tundra2 preview email shows
  the Physics demo with SkyX and HydraX:
  http://80.75.107.153/Tundra2/SkyXHydrax.png
 
  Didn't download the exe to see if it's there, as am on mac now. That's
  http://80.75.107.153/Tundra2/Tundra-2.0-preview.exe
 
   Ali Kämäräinen
 
   ~Toni
 
 Glenalec
 
 --
 http://groups.google.com/group/realxtend
 http://www.realxtend.org
 
 
 -- 
 http://groups.google.com/group/realxtend
 http://www.realxtend.org

-- 
http://groups.google.com/group/realxtend
http://www.realxtend.org

Re: tundra1 to 2 conversions (Re: [realXtend] black screen after login for Tundra 2.0)

[Toni Alatalo]

On Sep 23, 2011, at 1:17 AM, hui ning hning...@gmail.com wrote:
 Could I use Blender to read back the created *txml and associated scene 
 attribute files? 

Not currently, there is no txml import for blender AFAIK. Would be simple to 
add though.

Both b2rex and now also blender2ogre (brett's tundra exporter have expwrimental 
Blender live connection, though. And b2ogre can write txml. Could read it too 
.. But usually we have the original blend anyway already.

 - Hui

-Toni

 
 On Thu, Sep 22, 2011 at 4:56 AM, Toni Alatalo t...@playsign.net wrote:
 
 On Sep 22, 2011, at 11:29 AM, hui ning wrote:
 
 http://80.75.107.153/Tundra2/Tundra-2.0-preview.exe to my windows 7(64), 
 somehow it did not execute. 
 
 weird, i can probably test later today. unless someone else digs up the 
 ported physics scene earlier.
 
 What's the typical procedure to port a scene to 2.0?
 
 for this physics one is best to use the already ported version, but in 
 general, there is two areas:
 
 1. coordinate space
 In tundra1 (and earlier versions of Naali before that) we used the second 
 life / opensim coordinate system, where z is up (i don't remember the 
 handedness). this was hardcoded in some places. In tundra2 there is no 
 similar hardcoding, you can basically put your objects which way you want, 
 and it also works to just open tundra1 scenes and they show correctly. But 
 there are many places that assume the usual Ogre coordinate system, where y 
 is up: skyx, hydrax, how our bullet physics does gravity, the avatar 
 application etc. So to convert from 1 to 2 we often need to rotate the scene. 
 I haven't actually done that myself yet, was originally planning making a 
 standalone converter script for it, but later learned that perhaps is simpler 
 actually to make Tundra2 support opening t1 files and doing that conversion 
 then (e.g. just have a menu entry for it). For Pong I just re-imported the 
 blender-made .scene file to t2 so got all the objects right.
 
 2. scripting api
 for apps with scripting there is a lot of small syntactic changes, this 
 conversion tool is the best documentation we have for those so far .. the 
 replaces at 
 https://github.com/realXtend/naali/blob/tundra2/tools/tundra1-js-to-tundra2.py#L85
 
 - Hui
 
 ~Toni
 
 
 On Wed, Sep 21, 2011 at 4:46 PM, Glenn Alexander glena...@exemail.com.au 
 wrote:
 I had SkyX et.al. running beautifully on 2.0pre (where that screenshot came
 from too). Haven't had time to get 2.0 working with my own scene (that the
 .pre was happy with) yet, so can't speak for that release.
 
 On Thursday September 22 2011 07:18:01 Toni Alatalo wrote:
  Ah, indeed, this screenshot from the original tundra2 preview email shows
  the Physics demo with SkyX and HydraX:
  http://80.75.107.153/Tundra2/SkyXHydrax.png
 
  Didn't download the exe to see if it's there, as am on mac now. That's
  http://80.75.107.153/Tundra2/Tundra-2.0-preview.exe
 
   Ali Kämäräinen
 
   ~Toni
 
 Glenalec
 
 --
 http://groups.google.com/group/realxtend
 http://www.realxtend.org
 
 
 -- 
 http://groups.google.com/group/realxtend
 http://www.realxtend.org
 
 -- 
 http://groups.google.com/group/realxtend
 http://www.realxtend.org
 
 -- 
 http://groups.google.com/group/realxtend
 http://www.realxtend.org

-- 
http://groups.google.com/group/realxtend
http://www.realxtend.org