Re: [Repeater-Builder] Solar-Wind Powered Repeaters
It's right up there with the perpetual motion engine and powdered water. LOL!! Dick - Original Message - From: Q To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: 20 February, 2006 18:28 Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Solar-Wind Powered Repeaters This is a SCAM and has been widely discreditedDakota Summerhawk wrote:Found this while browsing for generators:http://www.lutec.com.au/index.htmMight be a good idea for remote repeaters other than wind or solar.Dakota Summerhawk Yahoo! Groups Links* To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/* To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED]* Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "Repeater-Builder" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Alinco Ham Repeater??????
On Tue, 21 Feb 2006, Q wrote: Fellows...think about this,seriously! There are NO japanese mobile radio transmitters rated for 100% duty cycle,most are 20%! What happens when they overheat? Before they blow up,they put out spurs and junk all over the spectrum! Adding a fan will help,but only delays the inevatible failure. Now on to the receiver...most are designed to be broadbanded,have lousy front ends and mixers,are prone to overload and intermod,not what you want. Why would you spend hundreds of dollars on a pair of mobiles when the commercial surplus is available cheaper? You know-THE RIGHT TOOL FOR THE JOB!!! I am not just saying this to be mean,I have lived it! I have built repeaters out of the strangest things and learned what works best at the most reasonable price. Leave your mobile rigs in your mobile stations! The right tools are out there73,Lee Not to pick at nits, but the Rangr is a Japanese radio, built by Japanese Radio Corporation, or JRC. It was sold to GE who sold it as thier own and is a commercial radio. Ham-Jap Radios, now that's a bad idea. Then again, I could probably keep my FT-2500M at 100% duty cycle at 5w and 25W with a fan. Even the Motorola Syntor X only has 35W of heatsink area and it's a 40/60/75/110W radio. -- Kris Kirby, KE4AHR [EMAIL PROTECTED] BIG BROTHER IS WATCHING YOU! This message brought to you by the US Department of Homeland Security Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Alinco Ham Repeater??????
And the RANGR is rated for 5% TX duty cycle. Joe M. Kris Kirby wrote: On Tue, 21 Feb 2006, Q wrote: Fellows...think about this,seriously! There are NO japanese mobile radio transmitters rated for 100% duty cycle,most are 20%! Not to pick at nits, but the Rangr is a Japanese radio, built by Japanese Radio Corporation, or JRC. It was sold to GE who sold it as thier own and is a commercial radio. Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: NHRC-4 Controller
Hi yes I have heard from NHRC and am getting help, so what does V3 do if it don't use hex. I have init OK and have changed the passcode, yes I realise about the FF using the # key and the * for E Biggest problem I think is me not using a suitable amp on the tx a/f as a monitor. Will sort that right away. Thanks for the help 73 Steve - Original Message - From: Joe [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, February 21, 2006 1:02 AM Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: NHRC-4 Controller I haven't programmed my new NHRC4 MII yet. I've got the new software chip for mine, Version 3, and it does not use the hex code programming format. Did you follow the instructions in the manual? It calls for an initialization procedure, followed by entering the access code. Then you enable the controller. Then you enter the codes as you described (releasing the key after each character). After each character, you should hear OK after the character programmed. You must end the programming with an End-of-Message command. At the beginning of the CW ID, I usually add a few space characters to add a little delay before the ID starts. There is an NHRC-4 Programming Information Generator at: http://www.nhrc.net/nhrc-4/nhrc4prog.php that might be helpful. 73, Joe, K1ike At 12:32 AM 2/21/2006 +, you wrote: Hi not really feasable as I live in Liverpool UK. I did email them a few days ago, but no reply, so far. A point you maybe able to answer. When I program in the CW ID from a mobile with dtmf mic, do I release the key in between ie, 2A18, 2D36 etc Thanks Steve Yahoo! Groups Links -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.375 / Virus Database: 267.15.11/264 - Release Date: 17/02/06 Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [Repeater-Builder] Alinco Ham Repeater??????
On Tue, 21 Feb 2006, Q wrote: Fellows...think about this,seriously! There are NO japanese mobile radio transmitters rated for 100% duty cycle,most are 20%! What happens when they overheat? Before they blow up,they put out spurs and junk all over the spectrum! Adding a fan will help,but only delays the inevatible failure. Now on to the receiver...most are designed to be broadbanded,have lousy front ends and mixers,are prone to overload and intermod,not what you want. Why would you spend hundreds of dollars on a pair of mobiles when the commercial surplus is available cheaper? You know-THE RIGHT TOOL FOR THE JOB!!! I am not just saying this to be mean,I have lived it! I have built repeaters out of the strangest things and learned what works best at the most reasonable price. Leave your mobile rigs in your mobile stations! The right tools are out there73,Lee Equally, there are no scheduled disasters, diasaters don't have a specified length, and disasters aren't catogorized as caused by American Acts if God, or Jap Acts of God. The ability to use 2 transcivers to make an quick repeater using the data jack is a useful tool. I still run an Alinco DR-570 as one of my Crossband rigs. It is quite old, and has been through a lot of abuse. I bought it 3rd hand. In a pinch, I use one of my 2 Alinco DJ-580 Handhelds (They have crossband repeat also). I bought one of them new in 1993. The other was a basket case that I put back to gether. I also use a Kenwood TM-V7 and a Yaesu FT-8900. In comparison, using a Midland 70-0520CWB with a 70-2959-1 Vehicular Repeater option (50 to 110W output on 6m) as a transmit station in conjunction with a Kenwood TS-2000 at a remote site as receiving unit on a one way cross band linked system resulted in tremendous heat from the Midland; even at the 50 watt level. Using the Yaesu 8900 or the Kenwood V7 at lower wattage levels yielded a muchlower operating temp. The Midland LMR setup would not go be low 50W and the Ham rigs would operate at 5W. At the operating levels built in to be user controlled, the LMR product offered less power control and more heat, WHEN USED FOR SOMETHING OTHER THAN WHAT IT WAS INTENDED FOR. I am sure the same can be said about Jap/Ham units used for projects they weren't designed for. If someone wants to use the DR-X35 series for repeater operation, that is certainly their decision. I wouldn't try to move a mountain with motorcycle, nor would I use a D9 Cat to clean up after my dog (he is just not that big). In other words, some community repeaters may only need 20% worth of duty cycle, as they only get used 5% of the time. In some areas, some folks talk a lot more, and there may be a lot more of them to talk. Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [Repeater-Builder] Solar-Wind Powered Repeaters
Title: Message In the message below, I was referring to a charge controllerfor solar use, not a perpetual motion machine like in the link. I believe I built it from an article in Electronics Now (Quite a few years ago)... -Original Message-From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]Sent: Monday, February 20, 2006 5:34 AMTo: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.comSubject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] Solar-Wind Powered Repeaters The ones I have seen in the past were low current draw with an operating voltage in the ttl level range (at or near 5 v). It takes a lot of discharge to bring a 12 volt battery with anything more than minimal aplate area from 12.52 volts (minimum voltage for a battery at "idle" before needing re-charge) to below 5 volts. The 12.52V figure will be challenged, and likely isn't pertinent today; merely given as the benchmark that Johnson Controls and Sears Automotive Training used in their presentations about lead-acid batteries of the early 1980s. I'm not saying that it isn't possible for someone to find a way not to get it to work... Murphy is a Full-Time employee and is ACLU Compliant - Never discriminates. A few weeks of very cloudy weather, inefficient solar panel(s), bad cell(s) in the battery, etc. could deeply discharge a battery. anything is possible. There are no free lunches, and there is no 1 to 1 mechanical advantage. However, if your repeater eats light, and Mother Nature cooperates, this design is reported to work. FWIW, David KD4NUE -Original Message-From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of DickSent: Monday, February 20, 2006 3:25 AMTo: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.comSubject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Solar-Wind Powered Repeaters This gadget is gonna charge the batteries, then use power from the batteries to run itself? Sorry, folks, but all my electrical engineering background says no way. There's no free lunch. Dick - Original Message - From: Dakota Summerhawk To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: 19 February, 2006 22:32 Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] Solar-Wind Powered Repeaters Found this while browsing for generators:http://www.lutec.com.au/index.htmMight be a good idea for remote repeaters other than wind or solar.Dakota SummerhawkYahoo! Groups Links* To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/* To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED]* Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "Repeater-Builder" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Alinco Ham Repeater??????
Then there is the proactive approach rather than the reactive approach which you describe. In the proactive approach, you will have a repeater set up and ready to go - a GOOD repeater that can handle emergency duty cycle which typically is much closer to 100%. This repeater will be stored in a suitcase or something and be ready to go within minutes. The LAST thing I want to rely on in an emergency is a 'thrown together' repeater that may fail at any time. Disaster preparedness is NOT the ability to make something after you need it. Joe M. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Equally, there are no scheduled disasters, diasaters don't have a specified length, and disasters aren't catogorized as caused by American Acts if God, or Jap Acts of God. The ability to use 2 transcivers to make an quick repeater using the data jack is a useful tool. Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[Repeater-Builder] Re: sniper VCO's (was: Alinco Ham Repeater??????)
A friend of mine did a test with a DR-1200 in the hey-day of packet and checked the radio on a storage o-scope and discovered that the radio was up at full power long before it was on frequency. :-/ That problem is not unique to Alinco. We used Kenwood 531's for 1200 MHz packet links, and found that this radio, too, had full power long before it was on frequency, which is a problem if there are multiple packet links and one radio punches holes in the packets of other links. Which is why I'm uzing crystal-controlled gear for my 23cm repeater, well, one of many reasons anyways. GJ Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Alinco Ham Repeater??????
On Tue, 21 Feb 2006, mch wrote: And the RANGR is rated for 5% TX duty cycle. This crow could use a little salt. -- Kris Kirby, KE4AHR [EMAIL PROTECTED] BIG BROTHER IS WATCHING YOU! This message brought to you by the US Department of Homeland Security Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Alinco Ham Repeater??????
Kris Kirby wrote: Not to pick at nits, but the Rangr is a Japanese radio, built by Japanese Radio Corporation, or JRC. It was sold to GE who sold it as thier own and is a commercial radio. I wouldn't run a Rangr in repeater service either-at least not at full output. -- Jim Barbour WD8CHL Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[Repeater-Builder] Re: Solar-Wind Powered Repeaters
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In the message below, I was referring to a charge controller for solar use, There have been enough advances in solar chargers with tracking and mppt operation, that I would tell you to again research what is the current technology and why it would be an advantage to go with a new generation circuit. Again, Home Power Magazine is a good place to start your research. ...not a perpetual motion machine like in the link. I didn't look at the charger unit in the link past a cursory glance. It might be a snake old perpetual motion machine or someones rehash of a PMG Generator in an odd pacakge. I've got a lot of experience with wind machines and I'll tell you that over time, most people go back to the original basic Alternator or Generator physical layouts using standard parts. Anything out of the norm doesn't work very well over the long term. One of the better intertie wind systems are the original Jacobs units with replacement composite (non wood) blades. I've service a number of them through the years and they are well thought out. I've also seen a lot of magic and mirror wind systems from companies now long gone. I believe I built it from an article in Electronics Now (Quite a few years ago)... Any charger circuit you add to a critical / marginal system should probably include the newer generation of tracking or mppt type circuits to get the best solar panel energy. The tracking type chargers really are that much better than a plain-jane charging controller regulator from days of old. The ones I have seen in the past were low current draw with an operating voltage in the ttl level range at or near 5 v). There are/were a number of these type chargers made. I found an original Arco Charger at the flea market and reversed engineered the circuit diagram out. It's a very well thought out unit for being as simple as it is. I might even have a copy of the circuit diagram here if you want to see it, but all the part values might not be in place. A lot of those earlier magazine articles lifted their ideas from the early commercial circuits like the Arco Solar Charge Controller I mentioned. It takes a lot of discharge to bring a 12 volt battery with anything more than minimal a plate area from 12.52 volts (minimum voltage for a battery at idle before needing re-charge) to below 5 volts. Reads like certain death to any good battery... You'd better have a low voltage disconnect working at much higher voltage than 5 volts... else you like killing off your 13 volt batteries real fast. A few weeks of very cloudy weather, inefficient solar panel(s), bad cell(s) in the battery, etc. could deeply discharge a battery. anything is possible. Cover your fanny with a low voltage disconnect and proper controls in place. However, if your repeater eats light, and Mother Nature cooperates, this design is reported to work. Better to have the repeater off line while the charging system is not so great to allow some type of charging recovery from the solar array. I have one such low use site and it's better to have it off line for what ends up being not so often than allow the equipment to kill off the battery bank. cheers, skipp skipp025 at yahoo.com Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Alinco Ham Repeater??????
Hi Jim well I intend using Rangrs as a 6mtr rptr, but things are very different here in the UK. Maximum power out is 25w so no real problems with the tx burning out the PA, and of course the maximim time the tx can be used by each person having a qso is 5 minutes before they have to reaccess the rptr 73 Steve - Original Message - From: Jim B. [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, February 21, 2006 4:55 PM Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Alinco Ham Repeater?? Kris Kirby wrote: Not to pick at nits, but the Rangr is a Japanese radio, built by Japanese Radio Corporation, or JRC. It was sold to GE who sold it as thier own and is a commercial radio. I wouldn't run a Rangr in repeater service either-at least not at full output. -- Jim Barbour WD8CHL Yahoo! Groups Links -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.375 / Virus Database: 267.15.12/265 - Release Date: 20/02/06 Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [Repeater-Builder] Alinco Ham Repeater??????
I don't have a suitcase large enough to carry a repeater with duplexers suitable fot a 600KHz split. I am sure that something could be assembled with low enough output to handle the mobile duplexers that are so abundant for VHF; thre ones designed for a 5 MHz split. However, I can't see the beauty of a portable repeater that is 100% duty cycle at 2 watts output. Even if you were able to get the power output to a level as high as 10 to 20 watts, that portable tower structure is what I would like to hear about. I would like to see our community reach that level of preparedness; or concern. I will try to bring it up as an item to be budgeted for in the next LEPC (Local Emergency Planning Committee) meeting I attend. I can't quite figure out how to explain to them that they need this item to correct a situation where their repeater was blown off the face of the earth, but the antenna and tower connected to it were un-harmed. For the meantime, a few of us have looked at a number of sites within the city and county with the resources necessary to put up a linked system; on demand. What we lack in pre-assembled solutions for unpredictable situatuions, we make up for in redundancy and ability to cobble something together after the fact. BTW, these are mere fellow Hams, who have the gear in their shack to do the dirty deed. Not everyone in the community is an accomplished repeater jockey. I do have to agree, in a perfect world, there would be a pre-assembled solution for every situation. However, I will always consider the major part of response to be the ability to use the resources at hand; in concert with what you were able to bring with you. My idea of proactive preparedness to disaster is for disaster not to occur. Disaster, by it's very nature, is not a predicitable circumstance. And FWIW, I would probably do better in disaster response with a few guys able to cobble together a working setup from what is available; in a dynamic situtation, rather than a team of specialists whose off-the-shelf dependency was blown into the next county. The Hams that put up a wireless network to have connectivity in the early stages of Katrina response are my kind of guys. They didn't come imn with infrastructire and nothing to connect it to. They restored connectivity from the ground up. And, they only came to provide Amateur Emergency Communcations. A dozen suitcase repeaters couldn't link the agencies together that needed computer network communications. Those were my kind of guys; simply not prepared YMMV David -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of mch Sent: Tuesday, February 21, 2006 6:57 AM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Alinco Ham Repeater?? Then there is the proactive approach rather than the reactive approach which you describe. In the proactive approach, you will have a repeater set up and ready to go - a GOOD repeater that can handle emergency duty cycle which typically is much closer to 100%. This repeater will be stored in a suitcase or something and be ready to go within minutes. The LAST thing I want to rely on in an emergency is a 'thrown together' repeater that may fail at any time. Disaster preparedness is NOT the ability to make something after you need it. Joe M. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Equally, there are no scheduled disasters, diasaters don't have a specified length, and disasters aren't catogorized as caused by American Acts if God, or Jap Acts of God. The ability to use 2 transcivers to make an quick repeater using the data jack is a useful tool. Yahoo! Groups Links Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Wierd Antenna Ideas (Was RE: [Repeater-Builder] Alinco Ham Repeater?)
On Tue, 21 Feb 2006 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I am sure that something could be assembled with low enough output to handle the mobile duplexers that are so abundant for VHF; thre ones designed for a 5 MHz split. However, I can't see the beauty of a portable repeater that is 100% duty cycle at 2 watts output. Even if you were able to get the power output to a level as high as 10 to 20 watts, that portable tower structure is what I would like to hear about. What if you took two 1/4 wave ground planes, mounted the RX antenna up top, fed with hardline, and mounted the TX antenna pointing down, 1/2 wavelength (or 4/2 wavelegths) down from the mounting point of the first antenna? This, it would seem, would put the image of the antenna 180-out from the first antenna, plus the isolation of having to go through a common ground surface as it were. That might give you a few DB of seperation, if there aren't too many near-field or far-field reflections to have to overcome. -- Kris Kirby, KE4AHR [EMAIL PROTECTED] BIG BROTHER IS WATCHING YOU! This message brought to you by the US Department of Homeland Security Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[Repeater-Builder] mobile diplexers
Hi guys .I was wondering when retuning uhf mobile diplexers is it better to tune for the notch or insersion loss.I have had a few diplexers tuned by others and they still have a small amount of desense occuring .When i received a new rfs diplexer the other day ,in the instructions i have to tune each side to notch the opposite frequency out and then check to make sure the loss was within limits .On the wavetec 4031 i mad the dips exactly on the frequency ie on the rx side max attenuation on the tx frequency and the opposite for the tx side giving me at least 58 or more db notch on both sides.testing it on a repeater i get no desense on weak signals -110db but each of my repeaters were done differently max att on the tx frequency on the rx side and on the tx side the dip isnt on the rx frequency ,its about half way up one side of the dip and these diplexers in use are showing desense on -110db signals to the extent i had to add a bp cavity inline to lower the desense.Can anyone sugest what is the best method of tuning notch mobile diplexers .thanks ian Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: Wierd Antenna Ideas (Was RE: [Repeater-Builder] Alinco Ham Repeater?)
I have been looking at taking a single cavity tuned to TX, and a single cavity tuned to RX to lessen separation needed. This for a firepower installation with no duplexers. I am also looking at using a VHF Engineering (OK, poor choice) with the PA Removed and mobile duplexer as a mobile repeater on out Red Cross Comm. van. This will yield around 2 watts into the mobile duplexer. It should cover a recovery village. In addition, low power FM broadcast station being considered also. The experimenting we do in times of calm gives us an idea of what may work in time of need. More in line with your idea would be a TX antenna on top of a water tower and an inverted RX antenna below the tower. Not near perfect, but with a pair of the $25.00 Radio Shack scanner antennas, it is an easy restoration for a repeater lost to storm damage, and using parts that are easy to store unassembled. There is still that feedline issue to deal with In all of these cases, we are not dealing with perfect solutions. The concept is making the best you can with available materials and remaining infrastructire. David KD4NUE -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Kris Kirby Sent: Tuesday, February 21, 2006 4:20 PM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: Wierd Antenna Ideas (Was RE: [Repeater-Builder] Alinco Ham Repeater?) On Tue, 21 Feb 2006 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I am sure that something could be assembled with low enough output to handle the mobile duplexers that are so abundant for VHF; thre ones designed for a 5 MHz split. However, I can't see the beauty of a portable repeater that is 100% duty cycle at 2 watts output. Even if you were able to get the power output to a level as high as 10 to 20 watts, that portable tower structure is what I would like to hear about. What if you took two 1/4 wave ground planes, mounted the RX antenna up top, fed with hardline, and mounted the TX antenna pointing down, 1/2 wavelength (or 4/2 wavelegths) down from the mounting point of the first antenna? This, it would seem, would put the image of the antenna 180-out from the first antenna, plus the isolation of having to go through a common ground surface as it were. That might give you a few DB of seperation, if there aren't too many near-field or far-field reflections to have to overcome. -- Kris Kirby, KE4AHR [EMAIL PROTECTED] BIG BROTHER IS WATCHING YOU! This message brought to you by the US Department of Homeland Security Yahoo! Groups Links Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: Wierd Antenna Ideas (Was RE: [Repeater-Builder] Alinco Ham Repeater?)
On Tue, 21 Feb 2006 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In addition, low power FM broadcast station being considered also. That sounds like a great way to get in trouble with Uncle Charlie, but in a true disaster when the big guys are knocked off-line, that's a great way to get the word out. -- Kris Kirby, KE4AHR [EMAIL PROTECTED] BIG BROTHER IS WATCHING YOU! This message brought to you by the US Department of Homeland Security Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Alinco Ham Repeater??????
I agree, I have repaired a DJ-605 about 4 times now due to faulty Toshiba power bricks. On 2/21/06, Al Wolfe [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: My Alinco DR-235 is just the opposite. It is very sensitive and works very well. These radio have very good audio and are working well in my repeater. I also have 5 others in mobiles and they work extremely well. Dollar for dollar, in my opinion, they are one of the best radios out there. Your kidding, right? I have an Alinco ALR-072T UHF rig. In 50+ years of building, designing, repairing, and operating electronic equipment I have never seen such a sorry excuse for a piece of electronics gear. It looks inside to be a second grade science project that got an D-. I have never seen poorer quality control, with solder balls all over it, rosin you could write in, wires laid out in what might be best described as the used-SOS-pad layout. The manual seems to be about a sixth generation translation from the original Sanskrit and printed on a used linoleum block for a cub scout merit badge. Hopefully, Alinco has improved things over the years. My personal opinion: Alinco = Wheel chock YMMV 73, Al, K9SI Victim of O. F. S. (Old Fart Syndrome) Yahoo! Groups Links Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Alinco Ham Repeater??????
Excellent sensitivity especially with an ARR pre-amp on the RX radio. I believe were getting somewhere around .240uv (been a while). Yahoo! Mail Use Photomail to share photos without annoying attachments. YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "Repeater-Builder" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Alinco Ham Repeater??????
The radio will most likely not survive 24hr key down very long obviously. With a thermostatically controlled fan it run very efficiently heat wise... Yahoo! Mail Use Photomail to share photos without annoying attachments. YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "Repeater-Builder" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
Re: [Repeater-Builder] mobile diplexers
Mobile duplexers (units that combine receiving and transmitting to operate with one antenna) are usually notch-tuned, so the preferred way to tune them is to reject the other frequency. In other words, you tune the receive side to reject or notch the transmit frequency, and you tune the transmit side to reject or notch the receive frequency. There's not much you can do about insertion loss. Whatever you end up with is usually a result of the way the duplexer is designed or manufactured. Cable lengths can have some effect, and might be different on units covering 420-450 MHz vs 440-470 MHz. I think your tuning method is fine and you should go for maximum attenuation of the opposite frequency. It's easy to tune them backwards; I usually write both the pass and reject frequencies on the duplexer to make sure I'm the proper half to reject the correct frequency. There is lots of duplexer tuning information over on the repeater-builder.com web site. Always something to learn there. 60-70dB rejection is about right for a UHF duplexer. That much may not be enough for a repeater, but it's usually enough for a 25-45 watt mobile radio. If the equipment is working properly, you should not have desense on ANY signal, regardless of how weak it is. This would be down to -127dBm (0.1uV) which is usually a receiver's threshold of hearing. Bob M. == --- Ian [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi guys .I was wondering when retuning uhf mobile diplexers is it better to tune for the notch or insersion loss.I have had a few diplexers tuned by others and they still have a small amount of desense occuring .When i received a new rfs diplexer the other day ,in the instructions i have to tune each side to notch the opposite frequency out and then check to make sure the loss was within limits .On the wavetec 4031 i mad the dips exactly on the frequency ie on the rx side max attenuation on the tx frequency and the opposite for the tx side giving me at least 58 or more db notch on both sides.testing it on a repeater i get no desense on weak signals -110db but each of my repeaters were done differently max att on the tx frequency on the rx side and on the tx side the dip isnt on the rx frequency ,its about half way up one side of the dip and these diplexers in use are showing desense on -110db signals to the extent i had to add a bp cavity inline to lower the desense.Can anyone sugest what is the best method of tuning notch mobile diplexers .thanks ian __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Alinco Ham Repeater??????
Most bands don't use a 600 kHz split. Why does everyone assume any communications will HAVE to be on 2M? As for the tower, it doesn't have to be on a tower, but many companies make portable towers or even telescopic poles. If you are ever able to attend the Dayton Hamvention, you will see a ton of them. Several of them had VERY large HF antennas on them (such as a 3-element 40M beam). As for explaining loss of communications, ask them if they know what the first priority in a military action is (hint: it's take out their communications). Ask the FDNY about their communications on 9/11. I'm sure a 2W portable repeater on any of the other nearby rooftops would have been more than welcome. It sure beats simplex on a portable. Not everyone has high buildings, but most have good repeater locations. Your backup repeater doesn't have to have coverage equal to the repeater it replaces, but it should be ready to 'plug and play' without having to build it first. It doesn't have to use a Stationmaster. It doesn't have to run 250W output. The point is that you can build an inexpensive portable repeater out of quality components (100% duty cycle) far ahead of the time you need it. Joe M. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I don't have a suitcase large enough to carry a repeater with duplexers suitable fot a 600KHz split. I am sure that something could be assembled with low enough output to handle the mobile duplexers that are so abundant for VHF; thre ones designed for a 5 MHz split. However, I can't see the beauty of a portable repeater that is 100% duty cycle at 2 watts output. Even if you were able to get the power output to a level as high as 10 to 20 watts, that portable tower structure is what I would like to hear about. I would like to see our community reach that level of preparedness; or concern. I will try to bring it up as an item to be budgeted for in the next LEPC (Local Emergency Planning Committee) meeting I attend. I can't quite figure out how to explain to them that they need this item to correct a situation where their repeater was blown off the face of the earth, but the antenna and tower connected to it were un-harmed. For the meantime, a few of us have looked at a number of sites within the city and county with the resources necessary to put up a linked system; on demand. What we lack in pre-assembled solutions for unpredictable situatuions, we make up for in redundancy and ability to cobble something together after the fact. BTW, these are mere fellow Hams, who have the gear in their shack to do the dirty deed. Not everyone in the community is an accomplished repeater jockey. I do have to agree, in a perfect world, there would be a pre-assembled solution for every situation. However, I will always consider the major part of response to be the ability to use the resources at hand; in concert with what you were able to bring with you. My idea of proactive preparedness to disaster is for disaster not to occur. Disaster, by it's very nature, is not a predicitable circumstance. And FWIW, I would probably do better in disaster response with a few guys able to cobble together a working setup from what is available; in a dynamic situtation, rather than a team of specialists whose off-the-shelf dependency was blown into the next county. The Hams that put up a wireless network to have connectivity in the early stages of Katrina response are my kind of guys. They didn't come imn with infrastructire and nothing to connect it to. They restored connectivity from the ground up. And, they only came to provide Amateur Emergency Communcations. A dozen suitcase repeaters couldn't link the agencies together that needed computer network communications. Those were my kind of guys; simply not prepared YMMV David -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of mch Sent: Tuesday, February 21, 2006 6:57 AM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Alinco Ham Repeater?? Then there is the proactive approach rather than the reactive approach which you describe. In the proactive approach, you will have a repeater set up and ready to go - a GOOD repeater that can handle emergency duty cycle which typically is much closer to 100%. This repeater will be stored in a suitcase or something and be ready to go within minutes. The LAST thing I want to rely on in an emergency is a 'thrown together' repeater that may fail at any time. Disaster preparedness is NOT the ability to make something after you need it. Joe M. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Equally, there are no scheduled disasters, diasaters don't have a specified length, and disasters aren't catogorized as caused by American Acts if God, or Jap Acts of God. The ability to use 2 transcivers to make an quick repeater using the data jack is a useful tool. Yahoo! Groups Links
[Repeater-Builder] Once Again: Free Offer for GE Builders
I have the following GE ICOM units up for grabs: (2) EC - T153.770 (2) EC - T154.935 (2) EC - T154.905 (2) EC - T155.685 (1) EC - T156.000 (2) EC - R159.150 (1) EC - R159.210 (1) EC - R155.490 (1) 5C - R158.835 (1) 5C - R154.905 (1) 5C - R159.210 (1) 5C - R154.385 These are available for anyone who needs them. (Coy, please email your mailing address for the EC you need) Try to spread them around. I will pay postage. All I ask in return is for you to donate to the upkeep and availability of the Repeater-Builder site. Honor System - Let you conscience be your guide. The Donate button can be found at the following site; for both PayPal and Credit Cards. http://www.repeater-builder.com/rbtip/ post reply to [EMAIL PROTECTED] I hope others will continue this offer with items they think others may use David KD4NUE Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: Wierd Antenna Ideas (Was RE: [Repeater-Builder] Alinco Ham Repeater?)
Kris Kirby [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: What if you took two 1/4 wave ground planes, mounted the RX antenna up top, fed with hardline, and mounted the TX antenna pointing down, 1/2 wavelength (or 4/2 wavelegths) down from the mounting point of the first antenna? Did this on my first 6 meter repeater without a duplexer and just one folded - loaded bandpass cavity made from an old ARRL Handbook. I converted a 5/8 wave cb antenna for rx, and use a half wave converted adjustable rod scanner antenna for the tx at the bottom of an 80' pole. Worked great at 2.5 watts output, sucked wind at 25 watts out using what one now would say is a fairly wide front end Hamtronics R76 receiver. Feedline was only rg-8, which was all I could give to the low budget project back when I had a full head of hair. :-) This, it would seem, would put the image of the antenna 180-out from the first antenna, plus the isolation of having to go through a common ground surface as it were. That might give you a few DB of seperation, if there aren't too many near-field or far-field reflections to have to overcome. finding wave-length and distance nulls in antenna patterns in vertical sep repeater antennas used on low band is a real chore. Simple good setups work, getting greedy doesn't have as much fudge room. cheers, skipp Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [Repeater-Builder] Alinco Ham Repeater??????
I certainly agree that the portable setup is a great idea. (The following in anecdotal; from a source I usually find to be accurate). Motorola sent a number of Semi Trucks to the Katrina area. Each had a number of trailer mounted, battery operated repeaters, with telescoping masts. They were on individual single-axle trailers with lifting eyes designed to be hoisted on top of existing infrastructure, or used standalone. The battery life was projected to be over a week. Technical staff was sent along to help in setting them up for whatever application they were needed. It was a total-loss contribution. FEMA Met them at the state line and turned them away, as Martin Marietta was the FEMA contractor of record. Martin Marietta responded by sending a large quantity of unprogrammed radios, with a large bill attached. No good deed goes unpunished. Portable units like yours would have been welcomed; as well as any impromptu form of communications. We all would have been welcomed. We all hope that a disaster of the magnitude of Katrina/Rita never comes to our towns. I hope we all spend a little bit of time considering how to best respond. I know this is off topic, and I am very guilty of extending it out, in both magnitude of posts and further veering off course of the original topic. Apologies to all, David KD4NUE -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of mch Sent: Tuesday, February 21, 2006 5:38 PM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Alinco Ham Repeater?? Most bands don't use a 600 kHz split. Why does everyone assume any communications will HAVE to be on 2M? As for the tower, it doesn't have to be on a tower, but many companies make portable towers or even telescopic poles. If you are ever able to attend the Dayton Hamvention, you will see a ton of them. Several of them had VERY large HF antennas on them (such as a 3-element 40M beam). As for explaining loss of communications, ask them if they know what the first priority in a military action is (hint: it's take out their communications). Ask the FDNY about their communications on 9/11. I'm sure a 2W portable repeater on any of the other nearby rooftops would have been more than welcome. It sure beats simplex on a portable. Not everyone has high buildings, but most have good repeater locations. Your backup repeater doesn't have to have coverage equal to the repeater it replaces, but it should be ready to 'plug and play' without having to build it first. It doesn't have to use a Stationmaster. It doesn't have to run 250W output. The point is that you can build an inexpensive portable repeater out of quality components (100% duty cycle) far ahead of the time you need it. Joe M. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I don't have a suitcase large enough to carry a repeater with duplexers suitable fot a 600KHz split. I am sure that something could be assembled with low enough output to handle the mobile duplexers that are so abundant for VHF; thre ones designed for a 5 MHz split. However, I can't see the beauty of a portable repeater that is 100% duty cycle at 2 watts output. Even if you were able to get the power output to a level as high as 10 to 20 watts, that portable tower structure is what I would like to hear about. I would like to see our community reach that level of preparedness; or concern. I will try to bring it up as an item to be budgeted for in the next LEPC (Local Emergency Planning Committee) meeting I attend. I can't quite figure out how to explain to them that they need this item to correct a situation where their repeater was blown off the face of the earth, but the antenna and tower connected to it were un-harmed. For the meantime, a few of us have looked at a number of sites within the city and county with the resources necessary to put up a linked system; on demand. What we lack in pre-assembled solutions for unpredictable situatuions, we make up for in redundancy and ability to cobble something together after the fact. BTW, these are mere fellow Hams, who have the gear in their shack to do the dirty deed. Not everyone in the community is an accomplished repeater jockey. I do have to agree, in a perfect world, there would be a pre-assembled solution for every situation. However, I will always consider the major part of response to be the ability to use the resources at hand; in concert with what you were able to bring with you. My idea of proactive preparedness to disaster is for disaster not to occur. Disaster, by it's very nature, is not a predicitable circumstance. And FWIW, I would probably do better in disaster response with a few guys able to cobble together a working setup from what is available; in a dynamic situtation, rather than a team of specialists whose off-the-shelf dependency was blown into the next county. The Hams that put
[Repeater-Builder] ICOMS - Update
Update on what is available. I have pulled the ones requested so far. Please bear with me, as I had promised a list member from the previous list I would let him know when I had more available, and he is getting this info simultaneously with the rest of the list. I would like to make sure he has first refusal. I hope to be able to continue to gather items like this to offer to the group. I have the following GE ICOM units up for grabs: (2) EC - T154.770 (2) EC - T154.935 (2) EC - T155.685 (1) EC - R155.490 (1) EC - 153.770 (1) 5C - R158.835 (1) 5C - R154.385 Also, still have a 123.0 Hz reed from last time up for grabs. These are available for anyone who needs them. (Coy, please email your mailing address for the EC you need) Try to spread them around. I will pay postage. All I ask in return is for you to donate to the upkeep and availability of the Repeater-Builder site. Honor System - Let you conscience be your guide. The Donate button can be found at the following site; for both PayPal and Credit Cards. http://www.repeater-builder.com/rbtip/ post reply to [EMAIL PROTECTED] I hope others will continue this offer with items they think others may use David KD4NUE Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Alinco Ham Repeater??????
At 2/21/2006 02:18 PM, you wrote: I agree, I have repaired a DJ-605 about 4 times now due to faulty Toshiba power bricks. Actually the DR-605 is probably the best radio they ever made. No good for continuous duty TX, but the receiver is (after retuning) the most IMD-resistant of any amateur grade transceiver I've ever used. And it does split CTCSS tones. Bob NO6B Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [Repeater-Builder] Alinco Ham Repeater??????
At 2/21/2006 12:41 PM, you wrote: I don't have a suitcase large enough to carry a repeater with duplexers suitable fot a 600KHz split. I am sure that something could be assembled with low enough output to handle the mobile duplexers that are so abundant for VHF; thre ones designed for a 5 MHz split. However, I can't see the beauty of a portable repeater that is 100% duty cycle at 2 watts output. I have a 2 meter portable repeater using a VHF mobile duplexer at 2.655 MHz split. Power output is about 22 watts. Single antenna, fits in a backpack, no desense. Radio is a G.E. MVP; nothing with a broadband RX will work as the duplexing depends in part on the narrow selectivity of the G.E.'s helical resonators. Even if you were able to get the power output to a level as high as 10 to 20 watts, that portable tower structure is what I would like to hear about. Mine is usually deployed on top of a building, so we just lash a 5 or 10 foot piece of galvanized EMT conduit to whatever won't generate IMD with whatever antenna suits the need (3 element Yagi for directional coverage, Comet/Diamond base omni for omni coverage). Proximity of the antenna to the repeater hasn't been a problem. Bob NO6B Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Alinco Ham Repeater??????
Anything wrong with a simplex repeater for emergency use at about 10 to 25 watts no duplexer needed just set up ant mobile radio with controller and on the air takes some getting use to but would do in emergency . Most hams radios can go out of band so could set up on freq needed .( with Permission Of owner of freq that is used ) . On 2/21/06 9:10 PM, Bob Dengler [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: At 2/21/2006 12:41 PM, you wrote: I don't have a suitcase large enough to carry a repeater with duplexers suitable fot a 600KHz split. I am sure that something could be assembled with low enough output to handle the mobile duplexers that are so abundant for VHF; thre ones designed for a 5 MHz split. However, I can't see the beauty of a portable repeater that is 100% duty cycle at 2 watts output. I have a 2 meter portable repeater using a VHF mobile duplexer at 2.655 MHz split. Power output is about 22 watts. Single antenna, fits in a backpack, no desense. Radio is a G.E. MVP; nothing with a broadband RX will work as the duplexing depends in part on the narrow selectivity of the G.E.'s helical resonators. Even if you were able to get the power output to a level as high as 10 to 20 watts, that portable tower structure is what I would like to hear about. Mine is usually deployed on top of a building, so we just lash a 5 or 10 foot piece of galvanized EMT conduit to whatever won't generate IMD with whatever antenna suits the need (3 element Yagi for directional coverage, Comet/Diamond base omni for omni coverage). Proximity of the antenna to the repeater hasn't been a problem. Bob NO6B Yahoo! Groups Links Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[Repeater-Builder] CAT1000B and Audio Delay Board, still getting squelch tails
I have the CAT1000B Controller, I installed the audio delay board, but still get the squelch tail at the end of the transmission, even more so since I hooked in the LDG voter system. Also, on the hour I have the time set to announce, the repeater will key up, unkey and keyup again and give the time announcement, again more evident after I installed the RVS-8 voter system. Is there something that much be done between the Audio Delay board, this is the one that CAT sales for their controllers and the LDG RVS-8 voter to keep the squelch tails out? On another note, has anyone ever expirienced any problems with the LDG voter not keying up all the way and allowing the courtisy tone to continue and the audio be extremely low? Does not happen all the time, but takes it's fits now and then. Thanks. Mathew N9LV Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [Repeater-Builder] UHF Micor Receivers WANTED
Sounds like he is talking about the little box, and here goes the memory, but the small bandpass filter? Mathew Kevin Custer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: N9WYS wrote:Well, the last VHF Micor I looked at had the preselector in a differentlocation... Or maybe it was an "SP" run. If so, I stand corrected.I have never seen a VHF or UHF Micor receiver without the helical preselector attached directly to the board. In the case of the VHF, the RF-I-F board becomes very mechanically unstable without the attachment of the casting. If you have seen otherwise, I'd like to see a picture of it or know what equipment model it is in.Any Micor receiver will work in the Spectra TAC receiver chassis, regardless of it coming from a Station, Mobile, or even what band it's on...KevinYahoo! Groups Links* To visit your group on the web, go to:http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/* To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED]* Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Relax. Yahoo! Mail virus scanning helps detect nasty viruses! YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "Repeater-Builder" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
Re: [Repeater-Builder] mobile diplexers
Thanks bob that's what I feel and complements my tuning where I tuned it for max att at each frequency and the result is a clear signal but it still brings questions about the other diplexers I had tuned elsewhere that show some desense.maybe they tuned them for min insertion loss as well as isolation Thank You, Ian Wells, Kerinvale Comaudio, www.kerinvalecomaudio.com.au ---Original Message--- From: Bob M. Date: 02/22/06 09:00:40 To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] mobile diplexers Mobile duplexers (units that combine receiving and transmitting to operate with one antenna) are usually notch-tuned, so the preferred way to tune them is to reject the other frequency. In other words, you tune the receive side to reject or notch the transmit frequency, and you tune the transmit side to reject or notch the receive frequency. There's not much you can do about insertion loss. Whatever you end up with is usually a result of the way the duplexer is designed or manufactured. Cable lengths can have some effect, and might be different on units covering 420-450 MHz vs 440-470 MHz. I think your tuning method is fine and you should go for maximum attenuation of the opposite frequency. It's easy to tune them backwards; I usually write both the pass and reject frequencies on the duplexer to make sure I'm the proper half to reject the correct frequency. There is lots of duplexer tuning information over on the repeater-builder.com web site. Always something to learn there. 60-70dB rejection is about right for a UHF duplexer. That much may not be enough for a repeater, but it's usually enough for a 25-45 watt mobile radio. If the equipment is working properly, you should not have desense on ANY signal, regardless of how weak it is. This would be down to -127dBm (0.1uV) which is usually a receiver's threshold of hearing. Bob M. == --- Ian [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi guys .I was wondering when retuning uhfmobile diplexers is it better to tune for the notch or insersion loss.I have had a few diplexers tuned by others and theystill have a small amount of desense occuring .When i received a new rfs diplexer the other day ,in the instructions i have to tune each side to notch the opposite frequency out and then check to make sure the loss was within limits .On the wavetec 4031 i mad the dips exactly on the frequency ie on the rx side max attenuation on the tx frequency and the opposite for the tx side giving me at least 58 or more db notch on both sides.testing it on a repeater i get no desense on weak signals -110db but each of my repeaters were done differently max att on the tx frequency on the rx side and on the tx side the dip isnt on the rx frequency ,its about half way up one side of the dip and these diplexers in use are showing desense on -110db signals to the extent i had to add a bp cavity inline to lower the desense.Can anyone sugest what is the best method of tuning notch mobile diplexers .thanks ian __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam?Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "Repeater-Builder" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Alinco Ham Repeater??????
I have prepared a GE MastrII repeater on 444 with a mobile duplexer,2 port controller,vhf simplex remote powered by a 55ah gel cell. Its deployable by one person,can be plugged into a cigar lighter or an a/c outlet. The cost is comparable with two Alinco mobiles,but the performance is far superior. Typical use has been mobile in a vehicle stationed on a hill and at a tower at the local EOC on pre-installed antennas. We are working on building two more and maybe a VHF one as well. It doesnt sit in a corner waiting for deployment,rather we keep it on the air on a low antenna for local use,battery always on charge. We have pre-installed antennas at the EOC,comm centers,hospitals and all FD's in our county and test them regularly.A complete spare repeater is also at the ready. We also have a simplex plan as well,utilizing the pre-installed antennas.We also have similar setups for HF,packet and VOIP. We will be well prepared for whatever happens rather than relying upon some cobbled up mobiles or cross-band radios that would tend to fail. No simplex repeaters to slow down traffic either. I STRONGLY encourage all to take EMCOMM courses as well. This may be a requirement to participate in disaster comms in the near future. Be prepared! 73,Lee,N3APP Erie County PA Skywarn,RACES,ARES. FCC GROL Owner of 147.27/443.375/444.475Tech support of 146.61/146.82/146.70 Dale Pratt wrote: Anything wrong with a simplex repeater for emergency use at about 10 to 25 watts no duplexer needed just set up ant mobile radio with controller and on the air takes some getting use to but would do in emergency . Most hams radios can go out of band so could set up on freq needed .( with Permission Of owner of freq that is used ) . NEVER EVER USE A HAM RIG ON ANY PUBLIC SERVICE BAND,STRCTLY ILLEGAL!!! On 2/21/06 9:10 PM, Bob Dengler [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: At 2/21/2006 12:41 PM, you wrote: I don't have a suitcase large enough to carry a repeater with duplexers suitable fot a 600KHz split. I am sure that something could be assembled with low enough output to handle the mobile duplexers that are so abundant for VHF; thre ones designed for a 5 MHz split. However, I can't see the beauty of a portable repeater that is 100% duty cycle at 2 watts output. I have a 2 meter portable repeater using a VHF mobile duplexer at 2.655 MHz split. Power output is about 22 watts. Single antenna, fits in a backpack, no desense. Radio is a G.E. MVP; nothing with a broadband RX will work as the duplexing depends in part on the narrow selectivity of the G.E.'s helical resonators. Even if you were able to get the power output to a level as high as 10 to 20 watts, that portable tower structure is what I would like to hear about. Mine is usually deployed on top of a building, so we just lash a 5 or 10 foot piece of galvanized EMT conduit to whatever won't generate IMD with whatever antenna suits the need (3 element Yagi for directional coverage, Comet/Diamond base omni for omni coverage). Proximity of the antenna to the repeater hasn't been a problem. Bob NO6B Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[Repeater-Builder] RC96 DIN Connectors
Does anyone have a part number for the 8 pin DIN connector used on the back of ACC96 (RC96) controllers? thanks, Fred, AE6QL Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Alinco Ham Repeater??????
Definately a poor choice for a repeater mch wrote: And the RANGR is rated for 5% TX duty cycle. Joe M. Kris Kirby wrote: On Tue, 21 Feb 2006, Q wrote: Fellows...think about this,seriously! There are NO japanese mobile radio transmitters rated for 100% duty cycle,most are 20%! Not to pick at nits, but the Rangr is a Japanese radio, built by Japanese Radio Corporation, or JRC. It was sold to GE who sold it as thier own and is a commercial radio. Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Alinco Ham Repeater??????
In an emergency is not the time to learn what 100% duty cycle means,believe me when I say you will regret it. In a pinch,sure,use what you brung. Proper emergency preparedness dictates having the right equipment at the ready,so you spend less time cobbling and more time communicating. After all,thats why we are there...Oh,I have tried the TMV7 crossband thing,failed an hour into a drill.The output brick turned into a charcoal briquette! On the other hand,the GE MastrII I have has been running for 27 years,has seen many drills,nets and a few real emergencies and a lot of time keyed up without breaking a sweat. Sort of like trying to pull a boat and trailer with a Yugo or a Suburban-no comparison! 73,Lee [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Tue, 21 Feb 2006, Q wrote: Fellows...think about this,seriously! There are NO japanese mobile radio transmitters rated for 100% duty cycle,most are 20%! What happens when they overheat? Before they blow up,they put out spurs and junk all over the spectrum! Adding a fan will help,but only delays the inevatible failure. Now on to the receiver...most are designed to be broadbanded,have lousy front ends and mixers,are prone to overload and intermod,not what you want. Why would you spend hundreds of dollars on a pair of mobiles when the commercial surplus is available cheaper? You know-THE RIGHT TOOL FOR THE JOB!!! I am not just saying this to be mean,I have lived it! I have built repeaters out of the strangest things and learned what works best at the most reasonable price. Leave your mobile rigs in your mobile stations! The right tools are out there73,Lee Equally, there are no scheduled disasters, diasaters don't have a specified length, and disasters aren't catogorized as caused by American Acts if God, or Jap Acts of God. The ability to use 2 transcivers to make an quick repeater using the data jack is a useful tool. I still run an Alinco DR-570 as one of my Crossband rigs. It is quite old, and has been through a lot of abuse. I bought it 3rd hand. In a pinch, I use one of my 2 Alinco DJ-580 Handhelds (They have crossband repeat also). I bought one of them new in 1993. The other was a basket case that I put back to gether. I also use a Kenwood TM-V7 and a Yaesu FT-8900. In comparison, using a Midland 70-0520CWB with a 70-2959-1 Vehicular Repeater option (50 to 110W output on 6m) as a transmit station in conjunction with a Kenwood TS-2000 at a remote site as receiving unit on a one way cross band linked system resulted in tremendous heat from the Midland; even at the 50 watt level. Using the Yaesu 8900 or the Kenwood V7 at lower wattage levels yielded a muchlower operating temp. The Midland LMR setup would not go be low 50W and the Ham rigs would operate at 5W. At the operating levels built in to be user controlled, the LMR product offered less power control and more heat, WHEN USED FOR SOMETHING OTHER THAN WHAT IT WAS INTENDED FOR. I am sure the same can be said about Jap/Ham units used for projects they weren't designed for. If someone wants to use the DR-X35 series for repeater operation, that is certainly their decision. I wouldn't try to move a mountain with motorcycle, nor would I use a D9 Cat to clean up after my dog (he is just not that big). In other words, some community repeaters may only need 20% worth of duty cycle, as they only get used 5% of the time. In some areas, some folks talk a lot more, and there may be a lot more of them to talk. Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Alinco Ham Repeater??????
That would be a stretch to say there were no frequencies within the 2M band to use. All else aside, simplex repeaters, by definition, double the communications time. And they are very annoying to listen to. Joe M. Dale Pratt wrote: Anything wrong with a simplex repeater for emergency use at about 10 to 25 watts no duplexer needed just set up ant mobile radio with controller and on the air takes some getting use to but would do in emergency . Most hams radios can go out of band so could set up on freq needed .( with Permission Of owner of freq that is used ) . Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: Wierd Antenna Ideas (Was RE: [Repeater-Builder] Alinco Ham Repeater?)
On Wed, 22 Feb 2006, skipp025 wrote: finding wave-length and distance nulls in antenna patterns in vertical sep repeater antennas used on low band is a real chore. Simple good setups work, getting greedy doesn't have as much fudge room. Roger that. I was just looking at it from the disaster recovery angle. 2.5W 0W. 25W vs 2.5W is 10dB, so there's some realistic numbers in there too -- but when using seperate antennas for TX or RX, it's pretty important that the TX antenna be sheilded with hardline if it's the only TX on the tower. If not, then the RX feedline should be shielded. This assumes that you don't use hardline for both ports, which is what many people do. For my 900MHz repeater, I'm looking at using hardline from the transmitter, to the duplexer, to the case of the repeater and out to the antenna. The RX will most likely be simple RG58 (since I have miles of it already with BNC and N connectors) and since there is additional filtering in the RX chain(s). Since I only have to worry about the TX eating up the RX inside the box, I figure I'm pretty safe, even if the loss is slightly higher. -- Kris Kirby, KE4AHR [EMAIL PROTECTED] BIG BROTHER IS WATCHING YOU! This message brought to you by the US Department of Homeland Security Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [Repeater-Builder] Alinco Ham Repeater??????
On Tue, 21 Feb 2006 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: FEMA Met them at the state line and turned them away, as Martin Marietta was the FEMA contractor of record. Martin Marietta responded by sending a large quantity of unprogrammed radios, with a large bill attached. No good deed goes unpunished. I guess the lesson here is -- don't let anything happen so bad FEMA *has* to take over. 'nother words -- fix it at the local and state level if at all possible. And *don't* turn it all over to FEMA. But I'm talking out of my hat. Nothing to see here -- run along. -- Kris Kirby, KE4AHR [EMAIL PROTECTED] BIG BROTHER IS WATCHING YOU! This message brought to you by the US Department of Homeland Security Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [Repeater-Builder] UHF Micor Receivers WANTED
Or maybe he was thinking of the Micor Rx Pre-amps? YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "Repeater-Builder" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Alinco Ham Repeater??????
My DR-430 went into unlock and is now a wheel chock! Anyone need a parts rig? I aint fixin it! Bob Dengler wrote: At 2/21/2006 02:18 PM, you wrote: I agree, I have repaired a DJ-605 about 4 times now due to faulty Toshiba power bricks. Actually the DR-605 is probably the best radio they ever made. No good for continuous duty TX, but the receiver is (after retuning) the most IMD-resistant of any amateur grade transceiver I've ever used. And it does split CTCSS tones. Bob NO6B Yahoo! Groups Links Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
