Re: CSremove from list
I notice that if you click the Unsubscribe link below you get a message generated with subscribe in the Subject line. Shouldn't the subject be unsubscribe? Is this what is causing people trouble when they try to unsubscribe? - Steve N On Sat, Oct 2, 2010 at 11:25 AM, Robert L. Booth zebulan5...@yahoo.com mailto:zebulan5...@yahoo.com wrote: Please take me off this list. Thank you. Robert Booth -- The Silver List is a moderated forum for discussing Colloidal Silver. Rules and Instructions: http://www.silverlist.org Unsubscribe: mailto:silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com?subject=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/silver-list@eskimo.com/maillist.html Off-Topic discussions: mailto:silver-off-topic-l...@eskimo.com List Owner: Mike Devour mailto:mdev...@eskimo.com
Re: CSCS and killing of pathogens - Comments on HCl Study
Marshall, Any result from your test yet? - Steve N - Original Message - From: Marshall Dudley [mailto:mdud...@king-cart.com] Sent: Thursday, September 30, 2010 09:50 PM To: silver-list@eskimo.com silver-list@eskimo.com Subject: Re: CSCS and killing of pathogens - Comments on HCl Study OK, I bought the HCl, and seeded a glass of 20 ppm EIS with a couple of salt crystals. I am now waiting for the silver chloride to settle out to finish the test. Marshall -- The Silver List is a moderated forum for discussing Colloidal Silver. Rules and Instructions: http://www.silverlist.org Unsubscribe: mailto:silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com?subject=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/silver-list@eskimo.com/maillist.html Off-Topic discussions: mailto:silver-off-topic-l...@eskimo.com List Owner: Mike Devour mailto:mdev...@eskimo.com
RE: CSDave Darrin remove from list
I feel that my outburst the other day has offended a number of people and sensitized many others. I sincerely apologize for my outburst. I hope we can get past the disagreements I have caused. - Steve N - Original Message - From: Hanneke [mailto:bloss...@internode.on.net] Sent: Sunday, October 03, 2010 10:01 AM To: silver-list@eskimo.com silver-list@eskimo.com Subject: RE: CSDave Darrin remove from list -- The Silver List is a moderated forum for discussing Colloidal Silver. Rules and Instructions: http://www.silverlist.org Unsubscribe: mailto:silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com?subject=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/silver-list@eskimo.com/maillist.html Off-Topic discussions: mailto:silver-off-topic-l...@eskimo.com List Owner: Mike Devour mailto:mdev...@eskimo.com
Re: EXTERNAL:Re: :RE: CSRebuttal from ABC
MA If you want I can tone down my response. I didn't like the attitude of the writer. But he is not the audience you want to reach. The moderator and readers of the other list are and perhaps a lower toned response would be better. You will probably never convince the writer. - Steve N - Original Message - From: MaryAnn Helland [mailto:marmar...@bellsouth.net] Sent: Thursday, September 30, 2010 09:32 PM To: silver-list@eskimo.com silver-list@eskimo.com Subject: EXTERNAL:Re: :RE: CSRebuttal from ABC Hi Steve. LOL -- you got it! Thanks for your reply -- it was a beaut! MA - Original Message From: Norton, Steve stephen.nor...@ngc.com To: silver-list@eskimo.com Sent: Thu, September 30, 2010 2:55:22 PM Subject: :RE: CSRebuttal from ABC MaryAnn, If you forward my response, please delete my email address. I don't need hate mail from a stranger. I get enough from friends. g - Steve -- The Silver List is a moderated forum for discussing Colloidal Silver. Rules and Instructions: http://www.silverlist.org Unsubscribe: mailto:silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com?subject=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/silver-list@eskimo.com/maillist.html Off-Topic c discussions: mailto:silver-off-topic-l...@eskimo.com List Owner: Mike Devour mailto:mdev...@eskimo.com -- The Silver List is a moderated forum for discussing Colloidal Silver. Rules and Instructions: http://www.silverlist.org Unsubscribe: mailto:silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com?subject=subscribe Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/silver-list@eskimo.com/maillist.html Off-Topic discussions: mailto:silver-off-topic-l...@eskimo.com List Owner: Mike Devour mailto:mdev...@eskimo.com
Re: EXTERNAL:Re: :RE: CSRebuttal from ABC
MA The presence of silver in hair is not indicative that horses are carrying harmful silver loads. Silver deposited in the tissues have been shown to be harmless. This is well documented in literature. You are trying to defend against a false premise to begin with. I would think a Biochemist would know to check the facts first. Silver appears to be unique in this. It is not the same, for example, with many essential elements such as selenium. In those instances hair analysis can be useful. On the other side of the arguement, I put a lot of effort into researching what is known regarding argryia. Unfortunately there is not enough known. The problem is that you cannot monitor the body's functions down to sub cellular functions as they occur. But I have not come across anything that supports the theory of large particles becomming lodged in the tissues. Metallic silver has been found in the tissues but researcher's best guess is that ionic forms of silver such as silver nitrate and protein bound silver are reduced to metallic silver while in the cell by other substsnces such as ascorbic acid. Silver nitrate is well known for giving up metallic silver when acted on by other substances and that is one reason to avoid it. I would also avoid MSP for the same reason. I also spent a lot of effort studying how silver is eliminated from the body and that has some relevence to finding silver in hair but I think discussing ot would more just muddy the waters and that is not what you need. But back to my original point, I think the moderator's conclusion based on her hair analysis work is wrong and you are off chasing a red herring. I also agree with Marshall that the person from ABL doesn't know what he is talking about when he equates ionic silver with large particles. That is so bizzare that it boggles the mind. Unforfunately just the fact the he works at ABL will give him undeserved credentials in the view of many unschooled in silver. Regards, Steve N - Original Message - From: MaryAnn Helland [mailto:marmar...@bellsouth.net] Sent: Friday, October 01, 2010 11:20 AM To: silver-list@eskimo.com silver-list@eskimo.com Subject: Re: EXTERNAL:Re: :RE: CSRebuttal from ABC Steve -- at this point, the information won't be going to the other list. The moderator has *taken it private* to *protect me from embarrassment* (smile). I'll honor her effort by returning the favor. What I'll do after all is said and done, is make a post to the other list summarizing the information that ws provided to the moderator -- and I'll try to do that without embarrassing HER. So -- your post is just fine for the current purposes. I didn't like the attitude of the writer either -- it's very hard to overcome that ignorance/arrogance when you're dealing with someone who believes it. As background information -- the moderator is a Biochemist who deals in horse and human health issues. Her original claim was that CS is unsafe to use in anything but moderate amounts for a short period of time. She claims that she has had many clients whose horses are carrying heavy silver loads from extended CS use. This is determined by hair analysis. My response was that these people are making their CS incorrectly and are producing large-particle CS which CAN lodge in the body tissues. Then along comes this guy from ABL who says that ionic silver IS large-particle. This is what I'm trying to respond to. Thanks for your help. MA - Original Message From: Norton, Steve stephen.nor...@ngc.com MA If you want I can tone down my response. I didn't like the attitude of the writer. But he is not the audience you want to reach. The moderator and readers of the other list are and perhaps a lower toned response would be better. You will probably never convince the writer. - Steve N - Original Message - From: MaryAnn Helland [mailto:marmar...@bellsouth.net] Sent: Thursday, September 30, 2010 09:32 PM To: silver-list@eskimo.com silver-list@eskimo.com Subject: EXTERNAL:Re: :RE: CSRebuttal from ABC Hi Steve. LOL -- you got it! Thanks for your reply -- it was a beaut! MA - Original Message From: Norton, Steve stephen.nor...@ngc.com To: silver-list@eskimo.com Sent: Thu, September 30, 2010 2:55:22 PM Subject: :RE: CSRebuttal from ABC MaryAnn, If you forward my response, please delete my email address. I don't need hate mail from a stranger. I get enough from friends. g - Steve -- The Silver List is a moderated forum for discussing Colloidal Silver. Rules and Instructions: http://www.silverlist.org Unsubscribe: mailto:silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com?subject=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/silver-list@eskimo.com/maillist.html Off-Topic c discussions: mailto:silver-off-topic-l...@eskimo.com List Owner: Mike Devour mailto:mdev...@eskimo.com
Re: EXTERNAL:Re: CS[Equine_Solutions_Network] people particles on bottom of jar
It isn't a silent minority. It Is a vocal and radical minority that wants to impose their beliefs on the majority. A minority waving the flag and the cross but without morality or humanity. A minority thinking only of themselves. And whining how mistreated and misunderstood they are when they are not allowed to terrorize and control others in society. I left the OT list to get away from this crap. - Steve N - Original Message - From: Ode Coyote [mailto:odecoy...@windstream.net] Sent: Friday, October 01, 2010 10:22 AM To: silver-list@eskimo.com silver-list@eskimo.com Subject: EXTERNAL:Re: CS[Equine_Solutions_Network] people particles on bottom of jar Been talkinI get a form letter back outlining all the wonderful accomplishments and thanking me for my support. They don't listen and I vote. The country side is 17 to one for self sufficiency and a hungry city may change its tune. A Southerner gets real quiet just before he kicks your butt...he'd just druther not. At least 2 Southern states have their own [silver] currency in the works, Texas is minting it now. talking to Army vets says they are solidly on Mom and Pops side and the National Guard is commanded by the Governor, not the resident president. If we paid our Fed taxes to the states, it's not unpaid and the states could hold the Feds ransom vs the other way around. Sending any Fed personnel into a Southern State against the will of the Governor is a violation of treaty. We can find the Governor...lots of Pine pitch and chicken feathers around... The self sufficient: First ask, then do what IS possible without permission. The dependent: Burns down their own 'hood in protest of failure of the impossible. The quiet ones are not the helpless ones. I ask locals what they think about.. Stony stare, a grimace and walk away [ Beyond discussion ] They KNOW. First..ask...use the tools you have. If Nov 2 doesn't work out.the quiet may become stealthy. If Nov 2 Does work out, but the newly elected are STILL traitors Improvise [Go around idiot..go around ] But this is WAY off topic...exceptCS, a Zapper and some local herbs might be all that you can get in a few years. Folx that DO, have done OK with less for centuries...and many still remember those days and retain those skills. ...just druther not. You don't bother to fight those you've made irrelevant unless THEY attack. The final question is: Who really depends on WHO ? If you get out of the way, there's no one TO attack. The productive aren't the dependent and can always find some way to work together with what they DO have, should have be damned. The talkers can talk all they want...but that doesn't DO anything. Not listening works both ways. My neighbors? If you scare em bad enough they will SHOOT YOU...without permission. ..just druther not and they will ask in a very soft tone... Are you SURE? I think this weekend we will see the difference between the order of quiet resolve, the silent majority... and angry impotent protest against the impossible. [LOUD is all they gots ] The last ride of the squeaky wheel is to the scrap yard...grease didn't work. The Freighters own the wagon, hire/fire the drivers and make new wheels...free ride passengers don't pull it. At some point, the influence of screaming tantrum falls upon deaf ears. The silent majority knows they've been conned and screwed...druther not it be so...but they know. They'll just [reluctantly ] make a turn back to the basics, shut the doors for a while, work behind them and let the noisy crowd go on down that road to nowhere following the misleaders. Prohibition proved that demand runs supply and laws that get the enforcers killed, aren't laws. Everyone needs food and it's the farmers and freighters that supply it. If the benefit in doing so stops, so will they. They can go on strike [become very small and clannish], supply only themselves and make revenooers disappear. Pretty drastic, [druther not ] but it can and has been done. If ANYONE remembers what wisdom [common sense and reality] is, it's farmers. It doesn't matter what side the butter is on if you have no bread. If you burn the grass down to the roots, the fire goes out and it grows back all the greener for the lack of roasted firebugs. The roots don't have to make noise or go to Washington in protest and if they did it was Are you SURE? ..and NOT noisy. We'd druther not, but YES we CAN. You only believe.we... KNOW. HOPE all you want.we DO. Ya think the Progressives don't know the obvious ? ..the Mullahs ?? They want to burn you down and you are being set up for the fire. But they also just believe they are those roots when all they really are is taller grass HOPING to put the fire out before they roast, last. They too, are being set up. A slave owner belongs to his slaves...they can't be trusted. The first slave owner in America
Re: CSCS and killing of pathogens - Comments on HCl Study
Marshal, Thank you very much for the article. Here are some comments on the study. The sequence of events I as read them are: 1) 2 versions of silver nanoparticles were created. One using silver nitrate giving a range of particles from 2 to 18 nm and averaging 8.2 nm. This was called Solution A. The second used silver oxide as the source and had particle sizes similar to the silver nitrate version. This was called Solution B. The tests were performed using the silver nitrate based version. I see no instance where the silver oxide version (Solution B) was used. 2) A solution was also created using large commercially available silver particles (200 mesh). This was used only for the test demonstrating that bulk silver does not react with HCl. That is the test that involved 3 days of magnetic stirring. It showed no creation of silver chloride after the 3 days. 3) The concentration of the HCl used was approximately 18.5% HCl. 4)HCl was added to Solution A and a white product was formed immediately. X-ray powder diffraction (XRD) confirmed that little Ag+ remained in solution and that AgCl was created. This was further confirmed by a UV-vis absorption test that verified the disappearance of the Ag+ absorption peak at 302 nm. 5) The chemical reactivity of Ag nanoparticles in the polymer matrix has also been investigated. Figure 5 shows results similar to (4) above. AgCl was created. 6) The test mentioned in (2) above was performed verifying that bulk silver does not react with HCl. I would have to say that it appears to me that the tests did indeed demonstrate that Ag nanoparticles have an unusually high chemical nanoreactivity in the reaction with hydrochloric acid. And a surprisingly rapid conversion to silver chloride. - Steve N -Original Message- From: Marshall Dudley [mailto:mdud...@king-cart.com] Sent: Wednesday, September 29, 2010 10:23 AM To: silver-list@eskimo.com Subject: Re: CSCS and killing of pathogens I now have the full article. Anyone wanting it please let me know and I will email it to you. There are some problems with their methodology. 1. They say they make CS by two methods, one which leaves a residue of silver nitrate in the solution, and the other which does not. I cannot find which one they used for the data they are producing. 2. They say that they remove all AgO2 from the non-nitrate solution by centrifuge. Fact is that it is impossible to removed dissolved silver oxide and silver hydroxide by centrifuge. 3. Their curve shows a rise on the front end which indicates silver oxide/hydroxide before adding HCl, but turns down after adding it, indicating that ionic silver was converted to silver 4. They say that adding HCl produced silver chloride immediately as evidenced by the solution turning milky, but that happens anyway with silver oxide or nitrate in the solution from reactions with them. 5. They assume that the loss of the colloid is by producing silver chloride instead of aggregation and precipitation when HCl is added. But it is known that changing the pH of a solution significantly from 7 will cause aggregation and precipitation. 5. Figure 5 shows a peak for colloidal silver of one size particle in (b). In (c) it shows some AgCl peaks and a significant broadening of the spectrum. This broadnening is I believe proof that instead of small consistent particles, it now has variable sized particles, as would be expected if the HCl was causing aggregation. There are too many holes in the paper for me to be convinced that they have not done junk science. I conclude from the data they have supplied that the ionic portion reacted with HCl and that the colloidal portion aggregated, which is exactly what I would have expected. Marshall -- The Silver List is a moderated forum for discussing Colloidal Silver. Rules and Instructions: http://www.silverlist.org Unsubscribe: mailto:silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com?subject=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/silver-list@eskimo.com/maillist.html Off-Topic discussions: mailto:silver-off-topic-l...@eskimo.com List Owner: Mike Devour mailto:mdev...@eskimo.com
Re: CSRebuttal from ABC
American Biotech Labs (ABL). ABC is a typo. - Steve N -Original Message- From: needling around [mailto:ptf2...@bellsouth.net] Sent: Thursday, September 30, 2010 9:20 AM To: silver-list@eskimo.com Subject: Re: CSRebuttal from ABC MA, you refer to ABC and ABL. What do they stand for? Thanks. PT -- The Silver List is a moderated forum for discussing Colloidal Silver. Rules and Instructions: http://www.silverlist.org Unsubscribe: mailto:silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com?subject=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/silver-list@eskimo.com/maillist.html Off-Topic discussions: mailto:silver-off-topic-l...@eskimo.com List Owner: Mike Devour mailto:mdev...@eskimo.com
Re: CSCS and killing of pathogens - Comments on HCl Study
The paper specifically states for each test except 5 and 6 in my original comments that the silver nitrate derived nanoparticles were used so let's skip discussing silver oxide. 1) Figure 1(a) shows the composition of the silver nitrate derived silver nanoparticle solution. Figure 5 identifies the XRD peak at (111) to be Ag. And Figure 1(a) clearly shows a prominent peak at (111). The broadening of peaks in Figure 1(a) is described as indicating the very small sizes of Ag crystallites. Figure 1(b) shows the composition of the silver solution after the reaction with HCL. The Ag peak at (111) is greatly diminished. Significant peaks at (200) and (220) now show in the XRD pattern. Figure 5 identifies the XRD peaks at (200) and (220) as belonging to silver chloride. Now, combine those results with the UV-vis absorption spectra shown in Figure 2. The spectra of the silver solution after the reaction with HCL indicates little or no silver particles remaining. If the silver chloride resulted from only silver nitrate and not from a reaction of HCl with the silver nanoparticles, I would expect to see indications of the silver particles still there. I would also expect to see smaller XRD peaks at (200) and (220) since little silver chloride should be produced by residue silver nitrate. Your conclusions would assume a level of incompetence in the researchers that is unimaginable to me. 2) Figure 4 (There is no Figure 5) is for a separate test in which the chemical reactivity of Ag nanoparticles in a polymer matrix was also been investigated. A separate and unique polyacrylamide (PAM)/Ag nanocomposite was prepared and used for the test. I believe that the broad peaks in Figure 4 are caused by the PAM material. In any case, Figure 4 is not relevant to the Ag/HCl issue. Regards, Steve -Original Message- From: Marshall Dudley [mailto:mdud...@king-cart.com] Sent: Thursday, September 30, 2010 10:49 AM To: silver-list@eskimo.com Subject: Re: CSCS and killing of pathogens - Comments on HCl Study Can you specifically tell me what in that paper cannot be explained by the known actions under such conditions of: 1. Small amounts of silver nitrate or silver oxide combined with HCl and converted to silver chloride which precipitated out except for about .8 ppm. 2. The colloid aggregated from the drop in pH and also precipitated out. Figure 5 indicates to me that the major conversion was from very small consistent sized particles to much broader and varying sized particles. The very small area under the curve of the HCl peaks tend to indicate that very very little HCl was formed, as would be expected if from residual nitrate or dissolved oxide, and the large increase in the background indicate that a broad spectrum of particle sizes were formed which is what would be expected if the particles aggregated and dropped out of the solution. I think one should go by prosaic explanations first, and only resort to exotic explanations when the standard ones prove unsupported. Marshall On 9/30/2010 12:27 PM, Norton, Steve wrote: Marshal, Thank you very much for the article. Here are some comments on the study. The sequence of events I as read them are: 1) 2 versions of silver nanoparticles were created. One using silver nitrate giving a range of particles from 2 to 18 nm and averaging 8.2 nm. This was called Solution A. The second used silver oxide as the source and had particle sizes similar to the silver nitrate version. This was called Solution B. The tests were performed using the silver nitrate based version. I see no instance where the silver oxide version (Solution B) was used. 2) A solution was also created using large commercially available silver particles (200 mesh). This was used only for the test demonstrating that bulk silver does not react with HCl. That is the test that involved 3 days of magnetic stirring. It showed no creation of silver chloride after the 3 days. 3) The concentration of the HCl used was approximately 18.5% HCl. 4)HCl was added to Solution A and a white product was formed immediately. X-ray powder diffraction (XRD) confirmed that little Ag+ remained in solution and that AgCl was created. This was further confirmed by a UV-vis absorption test that verified the disappearance of the Ag+ absorption peak at 302 nm. 5) The chemical reactivity of Ag nanoparticles in the polymer matrix has also been investigated. Figure 5 shows results similar to (4) above. AgCl was created. 6) The test mentioned in (2) above was performed verifying that bulk silver does not react with HCl. I would have to say that it appears to me that the tests did indeed demonstrate that Ag nanoparticles have an unusually high chemical nanoreactivity in the reaction with hydrochloric acid. And a surprisingly rapid conversion to silver chloride. - Steve N -Original Message- From: Marshall Dudley [mailto:mdud...@king-cart.com] Sent: Wednesday
RE: CSRebuttal from ABC
MaryAnn, The gentleman from American Biotech Labs shows a remarkable ignorance regarding his product and silver nanoparticles in general. However, he has a product that provides him a livelihood and I can understand his desire to protect that at any cost. Scientific studies have demonstrated that silver particles are not antimicrobial. It has been demonstrated that only silver ions are antimicrobial. The antimicrobial effectiveness of silver particles actually comes from silver oxide that forms on the silver particle. Silver oxide is partially soluble in water and it is the silver oxide in solution that provides the antimicrobial effect of silver particles. I should note that ionic silver is also immediately effective when used topically and does not have the low solubility issue that silver oxide has. ABL clearly must know this because their product is based on the fact that by using hydrogen peroxide in their colloidal silver generation process, they create a silver oxide on their silver particles as part of the process. This will certainly speed up the killing of microbes when used topically because you do not need to wait for the silver oxide to form. But it probably does nothing for orally ingested ABL colloidal silver. In stomach acid the silver oxide coating will be converted to silver chloride. And a scientific study conducted on silver nanoparticles indicates that silver particles of the size in the ABL colloidal silver will also be rapidly converted to silver chloride. Therefore there is really no difference between ABL colloidal silver and ionic silver when used in vivo. While I would love to trade barbs with Don, there is really no productive outcome when dealing with someone with his mindset. He may however be interested in the following study. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16905140 High chemical reactivity of silver nanoparticles toward hydrochloric acid - Steve BTW, the comments regarding negative and positive charged particles is just ignorant marketing BS. -Original Message- From: MaryAnn Helland [mailto:marmar...@bellsouth.net] Sent: Thursday, September 30, 2010 9:07 AM To: silver-list@eskimo.com Subject: CSRebuttal from ABC The following is a request for information from the person questioning me on the use of our home-made CS, and the response from the guy at ABC. Who is Don, anyway -- anyone know? I would appreciate responses from our CS-experts here, so that I can respond back. Thanks. MA This is what I received on CS from the ABL contactand it is not kindso I am not posting it to the list. I prefer to not incite people which only drives them deeper into denial and cancels the opportunity for me to teach and them to learn. But you can see that there is difficulty in understanding the science with the general public. Begin forwarded message: From: info i...@lifesilver.com Date: September 28, 2010 10:29:47 AM MDT Subject: Re: need some clarification here...for my clients Whew, that is a long thread. Right up front I see the common problem, though. I was once a member of a yahoo list called silver pets. They were, just as this one is, unable to grasp the difference between ionic home made silver, and pure elemental silver solutions. To attempt to explain, to people like this, the very fundamental differences in the two types of silver preparations is greeted as heresy. They are so locked into their erroneous beliefs that nothing could convince them differently. I finally wrote them off as Luddites, and moved on. Your group seems of much the same mindset. The fact that large amounts of silver are being retained in their horses indicates large particle, ionic silver ingestion. Ionic particles, because of their positive particle electron charge, readily begin bonding with other organic substances, as soon as they enter the organism. This creates salts and compounds which are hard to excrete and add nothing to the healing process, because they are no longer silver, but something else. This is why they are The ABL products pass through the body unchanged, due to their negative electron charge. They are excreted quickly. They do not get bound up in other chemical relationships. They have absolutely no effect on the mineral balance of the organism, as they do not form compounds. Fat chance that you will convince your colleagues of this. They are locked into the theory that; Why should I pay for something that I can make for pennies? It all the same stuff. I could go through this thread, point by point, and present credible, independent, peer reviewed science to support these facts, but why bother? They either will not, or cannot grasp the scientific principle involved. You can always cut/paste excerpts from the studies listed on my Clinical Studies page. I will be putting up several more studies this week, since ABL has taken down their research page. I am glad I
:RE: CSRebuttal from ABC
MaryAnn, If you forward my response, please delete my email address. I don't need hate mail from a stranger. I get enough from friends. g - Steve N -Original Message- From: Norton, Steve [mailto:stephen.nor...@ngc.com] Sent: Thursday, September 30, 2010 12:49 PM To: silver-list@eskimo.com Subject: RE: CSRebuttal from ABC -- The Silver List is a moderated forum for discussing Colloidal Silver. Rules and Instructions: http://www.silverlist.org Unsubscribe: mailto:silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com?subject=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/silver-list@eskimo.com/maillist.html Off-Topic discussions: mailto:silver-off-topic-l...@eskimo.com List Owner: Mike Devour mailto:mdev...@eskimo.com
CSRe: silver-digest Digest V2010 #801
The validity of the study is still being discussed. Still, I think it is neither good nor bad. EIS has the same proven effectiveness regardless of the study. Enzymes with HCl will have no additional effect on EIS. - Steve N From: Melly Bag [mailto:tita_...@yahoo.com] Sent: Thursday, September 30, 2010 12:30 PM To: silver-list@eskimo.com Subject: CSRe: silver-digest Digest V2010 #801 Steve, You wrote:.I would have to say that it appears to me that the tests did indeed demonstrate that Ag nanoparticles have an unusually high chemical nanoreactivity in the reaction with hydrochloric acid. And a surprisingly rapid conversion to silver chloride. - Steve N My question is, is this good or bad because i take digestive enzymes with HCL? Thanks. Melly
Re: CSCS and killing of pathogens - Comments on HCl Study
Marshall, You are correct, I meant Figure 4. I did try and learn something about X-ray powder diffraction but was not successful in the time I have. The numbers (111, 220) refer to planes of atoms in a crystal. I found the following interesting: http://prism.mit.edu/xray/BasicsofXRD.ppt But it appears that you need a computer with a database to search for the unique diffraction patterns for specific crystals. So I compared the diffraction patterns in Figure 4 with those in Figure 1. The two planes (200 and 222) identified in Figure 4 show up in Figure 1(b) at the same 2 theta angles as in Figure 4. So I felt that they did indeed represent silver chloride. Similarly Ag(111) in Figure 4 shows up at the 2 theta angle of 40. That same (111) shows up in Figure 1(a) but not in Figure 1(b). I took this to indicate Ag in Figure 1(a) but not in Figure 1(b). There is a (111) in Figure 1(b) but it is at the wrong 2 theta angle for silver so I assume it is some crystal other than Ag. Admittedly this is somewhat simplistic but it is the best I can do under the circumstances. I am open to other information. Thanks, Steve N -Original Message- From: Marshall Dudley [mailto:mdud...@king-cart.com] Sent: Thursday, September 30, 2010 1:35 PM To: silver-list@eskimo.com Subject: Re: CSCS and killing of pathogens - Comments on HCl Study On 9/30/2010 3:03 PM, Norton, Steve wrote: The paper specifically states for each test except 5 and 6 in my original comments that the silver nitrate derived nanoparticles were used so let's skip discussing silver oxide. 1) Figure 1(a) shows the composition of the silver nitrate derived silver nanoparticle solution. Figure 5 identifies the XRD peak at (111) to be Ag. I presume you mean figure 4, there is no figure 5. Actually they identify it as Ag(111). Do you know what these number (111, 220) are referring to? Somehow they do not make sense, for instance in Fig. 1(b) 311 is locatd between 220 and 222, and 222 is located between 311 and 400. Also the 111 peak jumps around depending on where they seem to want it, moving far left on the 1(b). Somehow this does not seem right and is inconsistent with other paper's reports of these peaks. And Figure 1(a) clearly shows a prominent peak at (111). The broadening of peaks in Figure 1(a) is described as indicating the very small sizes of Ag crystallites. The peak at 111 is simply one of many possible forms of Ag crystal, including 200, 220 and 311. Figure 1(b) shows the composition of the silver solution after the reaction with HCL. The Ag peak at (111) is greatly diminished. Significant peaks at (200) and (220) now show in the XRD pattern. Figure 5 identifies the XRD peaks at (200) and (220) as belonging to silver chloride. Are the peaks at 200 and 220 REALLY silver chloride? Figure 1B of another paper ( www.springerlink.com/index/710W187LW403T65T.pdf ) says that this is simply different forms of silver crystals - Figure 1B .. A number of strong Bragg reflections can be seen which correspond to the (111), (200), (220), (311) reflections of cc (cubic crystals of) silver. If this is accurate, and I believe it is, that completely blows their theory out of the water since these peaks correspond with aggregated silver crystals and not silver chloride. Since (111) is I believe the smallest crystal form, then that it diminishes and the other forms increase is completely expected when particles aggregate into larger crystals. Now, combine those results with the UV-vis absorption spectra shown in Figure 2. The spectra of the silver solution after the reaction with HCL indicates little or no silver particles remaining. This is true for both of our analysis. They presume that the silver chloride precipitates out, I presume that the aggregated silver particles precipitate out. That is that this result supports both hypothesizes. Actually it is VERY easy to test which is correct. Take some 20 ppm EIS, and add a pinch of salt to it and let the silver chloride precipitate out. Then add the HCl and see if you get any additional silver chloride, if not then I am right, if so then they are. If the silver chloride resulted from only silver nitrate and not from a reaction of HCl with the silver nanoparticles, I would expect to see indications of the silver particles still there. Not if they aggregate and precipitate out as I have found they do when the pH is dropped significantly. Colloidal silver is only stable in water that is very near neutral or pH of 7. I see nothing that they are doing that would prevent this expected aggregation and precipitation when they drop the pH significantly. I would also expect to see smaller XRD peaks at (200) and (220) since little silver chloride should be produced by residue silver nitrate. Your conclusions would assume a level of incompetence in the researchers that is unimaginable to me. No, they should be larger. First when hydrochloric
Re: CSCS and killing of pathogens
Marshall, I would very much appreciate a copy! Thanks, Steve -Original Message- From: Marshall Dudley [mailto:mdud...@king-cart.com] Sent: Wednesday, September 29, 2010 10:23 AM To: silver-list@eskimo.com Subject: Re: CSCS and killing of pathogens I now have the full article. Anyone wanting it please let me know and I will email it to you. There are some problems with their methodology. 1. They say they make CS by two methods, one which leaves a residue of silver nitrate in the solution, and the other which does not. I cannot find which one they used for the data they are producing. 2. They say that they remove all AgO2 from the non-nitrate solution by centrifuge. Fact is that it is impossible to removed dissolved silver oxide and silver hydroxide by centrifuge. 3. Their curve shows a rise on the front end which indicates silver oxide/hydroxide before adding HCl, but turns down after adding it, indicating that ionic silver was converted to silver 4. They say that adding HCl produced silver chloride immediately as evidenced by the solution turning milky, but that happens anyway with silver oxide or nitrate in the solution from reactions with them. 5. They assume that the loss of the colloid is by producing silver chloride instead of aggregation and precipitation when HCl is added. But it is known that changing the pH of a solution significantly from 7 will cause aggregation and precipitation. 5. Figure 5 shows a peak for colloidal silver of one size particle in (b). In (c) it shows some AgCl peaks and a significant broadening of the spectrum. This broadnening is I believe proof that instead of small consistent particles, it now has variable sized particles, as would be expected if the HCl was causing aggregation. There are too many holes in the paper for me to be convinced that they have not done junk science. I conclude from the data they have supplied that the ionic portion reacted with HCl and that the colloidal portion aggregated, which is exactly what I would have expected. Marshall -- The Silver List is a moderated forum for discussing Colloidal Silver. Rules and Instructions: http://www.silverlist.org Unsubscribe: mailto:silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com?subject=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/silver-list@eskimo.com/maillist.html Off-Topic discussions: mailto:silver-off-topic-l...@eskimo.com List Owner: Mike Devour mailto:mdev...@eskimo.com
RE: EXTERNAL:CSCS and MRI
I had an MRI (head) a couple years back with no trouble. Here is a link to someone else who had no problem: http://curezone.com/forums/fm.asp?i=1512141 Upgate: MRI was normal, meaning it was not interferred with by the colloidal silver usage! - Steve N -Original Message- From: Joseph Rippy [mailto:jripp...@comcast.net] Sent: Wednesday, September 29, 2010 2:31 PM To: silver-list@eskimo.com Subject: EXTERNAL:CSCS and MRI Dear List, This is my first inquiry and it might be a strange one. I will be going in for a MRI in one week to check problems with my prostate (BPH). I have been taking about 3 oz. of ionic/colloidal silver for at least 2 months now after a suspected bladder infection. Is there the remotest possibility that the infinitely small silver particles can react to the strong magnetism of the MRI machine? Sincerely, Joseph Rippy -- The Silver List is a moderated forum for discussing Colloidal Silver. Rules and Instructions: http://www.silverlist.org Unsubscribe: mailto:silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com?subject=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/silver-list@eskimo.com/maillist.html Off-Topic discussions: mailto:silver-off-topic-l...@eskimo.com List Owner: Mike Devour mailto:mdev...@eskimo.com
Re: CSvoltage meter/ CELL VOLTAGE Dr. Tennant's book
I may be a little tough on Dr Tennant. His device may even be an excellent device. My big issue is with the information he provides. As an example, there are colloidal silver sites that have a perfectly fine CS but the make wild claims for their CS. It become3s a chore separating fact from fiction and if they misrepresent some items how can you trust anything else they say? You make an excellent point on why compact units are very useful for you. That goes to my point that the unit I might prefer may not be a good choice for someone else. Relative to waveform, I am only repeating the results of a study. However the tsunami waveform is for a single pulse. The patented waveforms Tennant and others have are for the pattern of a series of pulses. I think those 'unique' patterns are primarily for the purpose of claiming a patented uniqueness and not because they provide a significant difference. Regards, Steve N -Original Message- From: needling around [mailto:ptf2...@bellsouth.net] Sent: Tuesday, September 28, 2010 4:52 AM To: silver-list@eskimo.com Subject: Re: CSvoltage meter/ CELL VOLTAGE Dr. Tennant's book I like everything about my cosmodic unit. The other one is a good unit for a couple of specific purposes but I haven't gotten the same level of results from it for other purposes (could be the operator :-)). I actually like small 'thin' devices since people can lay on them more easily (if they cannot lay face down as many people with back problems cannot do). I don't know what the biomodulator will do as I haven't been able to obtain appropriate information on it as of this writing. I am waiting for some literature and hopefully it will allow me to compare it to the scenar I have been considering. I think waveform can be important. Look how Dr. Thomas Wing advanced the use of microcurrent with his tsunami waveform. Thanks for your thoughts. PT -- The Silver List is a moderated forum for discussing Colloidal Silver. Rules and Instructions: http://www.silverlist.org Unsubscribe: mailto:silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com?subject=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/silver-list@eskimo.com/maillist.html Off-Topic discussions: mailto:silver-off-topic-l...@eskimo.com List Owner: Mike Devour mailto:mdev...@eskimo.com
RE: CSPatents on CS and Generators
The patent by American Biotech does not cover CS generators. http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO1Sect2=HITOFFd=PALLp=1u=%2Fnetahtml%2FPTO%2Fsrchnum.htmr=1f=Gl=50s1=7,135,195.PN.OS=PN/7,135,195RS=PN/7,135,195 The only potential imbalance that silver can cause, that I know of, is with selenium and then only if you consume large amounts of CS over an extended period. If the list owner you refer to has other information I would be interested in it. - Steve N From: MaryAnn Helland [mailto:marmar...@bellsouth.net] Sent: Tuesday, September 28, 2010 8:39 AM To: silver-list@eskimo.com Subject: CSPatents on CS and Generators I have a question for the gurus on the list. The owner of another list that I am on, has publicly made the announcement that those of us who make our own CS are: l) Creating a silver load in our bodies (and in our horse/dog/cat's bodies) that causes an imbalance with other minerals; 2) That ABC (?) holds the patent on small particle CS and that our generators, therefore, are illegal. I have asked her permission to include her post below, and promised that I would share your responses with her. So please - respond. Thanks. MA Hello Again Mary Ann, The people who came to me had generators like mine, that have no timer or regulator etc, so you never know what product you havemine is very old, about 15 yrs old...the original version. Therein lies the problem I thinkhowever, with the patents that ABC holds for the nano particle size, How can those generators you are using be legal? American Biologics does not sell them or authorize them.
Re: CSWill CS interact with any of these?
Probably less than you can measure. E.g. 1 liter of 15 ppm CS would contain 15 mg of silver. Silver citrate contains 3 silver atoms for each citric acid molecule and the molecular weight of citric acid is approximately twice that of a silver atom. If you have a perfect complexing you would need roughly 10 mg of citric acid to convert the 1 liter of 15 ppm CS to silver citrate. 10 mg is hard to measure. So I would just add a pinch or more of citric acid and mix. Extra citric acid does no harm. Any old citric acid will do. Citric acid has is very antimicrobial. See: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2590638/ http://microbecide.com/index.php?main_page=microbecide - Steve N From: David AuBuchon [mailto:aubuchon.da...@gmail.com] Sent: Tuesday, September 28, 2010 4:50 PM To: silver-list@eskimo.com Subject: Re: CSWill CS interact with any of these? Hi Steve, Do you have any guidelines for how much citric acid to mix per volume of CS? Do you think silver citrate is still effective? Would I just google shop for any old citric acid? Thanks, ~David On Mon, Sep 27, 2010 at 10:14 PM, Norton, Steve stephen.nor...@ngc.com wrote: Personally, would mix the EIS with citric acid or a citrus juice to convert it to silver citrate before combining with the others. - Steve N
RE: CSWill CS interact with any of these?
Should have read : Silver citrate has is very antimicrobial. - Steve N From: Norton, Steve Sent: Tuesday, September 28, 2010 5:44 PM To: 'silver-list@eskimo.com' Subject: Re: CSWill CS interact with any of these? Probably less than you can measure. E.g. 1 liter of 15 ppm CS would contain 15 mg of silver. Silver citrate contains 3 silver atoms for each citric acid molecule and the molecular weight of citric acid is approximately twice that of a silver atom. If you have a perfect complexing you would need roughly 10 mg of citric acid to convert the 1 liter of 15 ppm CS to silver citrate. 10 mg is hard to measure. So I would just add a pinch or more of citric acid and mix. Extra citric acid does no harm. Any old citric acid will do. Citric acid has is very antimicrobial. See: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2590638/ http://microbecide.com/index.php?main_page=microbecide - Steve N From: David AuBuchon [mailto:aubuchon.da...@gmail.com] Sent: Tuesday, September 28, 2010 4:50 PM To: silver-list@eskimo.com Subject: Re: CSWill CS interact with any of these? Hi Steve, Do you have any guidelines for how much citric acid to mix per volume of CS? Do you think silver citrate is still effective? Would I just google shop for any old citric acid? Thanks, ~David On Mon, Sep 27, 2010 at 10:14 PM, Norton, Steve stephen.nor...@ngc.com wrote: Personally, would mix the EIS with citric acid or a citrus juice to convert it to silver citrate before combining with the others. - Steve N
Re: CSPatents on CS and Generators
Selenium readily binds with silver to form silver selenide. Selenium is necessary for a properly functioning liver. A deficiency of selenium, or vitamin-E. causes liver necrosis which will shut down the biliary excretion path. The potential for selenium deficiency is increased by silver combining with selenium and forming silver selenide and reducing the bioavailable selenium. Some excerpts: Wagner et al. (1975) did not find any growth depression or liver necrosis when Holtzman rats (10 per group) were given silver acetate in drinking water at 7.6 mg/kg/d for 52 d while ingesting a diet that had the recom mended concentrations of selenium and vitamin E. In another study by Diplock et al. (1967), no effects were seen in Holtzman rats given silver at 97 mg/kg/d as silver acetate in water for 50 d when the diet was complete. Liver necrosis was seen only in rats fed a vitamin-E deficient diet. ... Silver has also been reported to inhibit glutathione (GSH) peroxidase, a seleno-enzyme. Administration of silver acetate at 751 parts per million (ppm) (silver at 484 mg/L or 73 mg/kg/d) in water for 15 wk to young Holtzman rats (fed a diet adequate in vitamin E and selenium) reduced liver GSH peroxidase activity to 5% of controls. In the erythrocytes and the kidneys, the enzyme activities were reduced to 37% of controls (Wagner et al. 1975). The same authors reported that when the rats were exposed to silver in drinking water at 76 mg/L (7.3 mg/kg/d) for 52 d, GSH peroxidase was only at 30% of the levels in control rats fed selenium at 0.5 ppm in the diet. These effects are probably due to the selenium deficiency caused by silver. ... Diplock et al. (1967) reported that vitamin E and selenium in the diet could significantly influence the toxicity of silver. When weanling Norwegian hooded rats fed a basal vitamin-E deficient diet were provided drinking water containing silver at 970 mg/L (as silver acetate), all rats developed liver necrosis within 2-4 wk and died. In another group, when selenium was added at 1 ppm to the vitamin-E deficient diet, and the drinking water contained silver acetate, only four of nine rats died. In another group that was fed a diet containing vitamin E and was sacrificed after 50 d of silver exposure, no liver necrosis was found. Bunyan et al. (1968) reported similar observations in rats exposed to silver at 650 mg/L (as silver acetate) in drinking water. Liver necrosis was seen when the dietary selenium was reduced. Necrosis was induced at much lower doses of silver (80 mg/L). Vitamin E appeared to reverse that effect. Also, Grasso et al. (1969) reported that when silver (silver acetate) was fed either in the diet (at 130-1,000 ppm, or 4-33 mg/kg/d) or in drinking water (97.5 mg/kg/d) to vitamin-E deficient rats, fatal necrosis was noted. Alexander and Aaseth (1981) reported that depletion of liver GSH by diethyl maleate decreased biliary excretion of silver into the bile. Selenite also inhibited the biliary excretion of silver and increased its retention in the tissues. It was suggested that selenite formed an insoluble complex with silver that retarded biliary excretion. It is not clear if that is in any way related to the effect of selenium-containing diets in reducing the GSH peroxidase (see Wagner et al. 1975, described above). Some good news is that vitamin-E helps protect the liver and may even help protect against liver necrosis when selenium is low but probably not when selenium is missing. Please note in the quotes above the following: Alexander and Aaseth (1981) reported that depletion of liver GSH by diethyl maleate decreased biliary excretion of silver into the bile. Selenite also inhibited the biliary excretion of silver and increased its retention in the tissues. On one hand selenium is necessary to prevent liver necrosis and causing decreased biliary excretion of silver into the bile. On the other hand selenium forms selenite with silver and can inhibit the biliary excretion of silver and increase silver's retention in the tissues. Modification of a Selenium Toxicity in Chicks by Dietary Silver and Copper (http://jn.nutrition.org/cgi/content/abstract/105/6/769) The results of these experiments suggest that silver modifies selenium toxicity both by interfering with selenium absorption and by causing the accumulation of a nondeleterious selenium compound in the tissues. Copper modifies selenium toxicity primarily by causing the accumulation of a nondeleterious compound in the tissues. The selenomethionine form of selenium does not cause an accumulation of silver in the tissues and still provides the necessary support of the liver. That is document in the following document. Agricultural and Biological Chemistry, Vol.47 Bioavailability of Selenite, Selenomethionine and Selenocystine in Rats with Silver Loading To view study select the full text option at:
Re: CSWill CS interact with any of these?
Some comments below. - Steve N -Original Message- From: David AuBuchon [mailto:aubuchon.da...@gmail.com] Sent: Tuesday, September 28, 2010 8:03 PM To: silver-list@eskimo.com Subject: Re: CSWill CS interact with any of these? Hi Steve (and all), Thanks for this info. I read a detailed post you made a while back also about making SC. I'll say that it is more appealing to me to add citric acid to finished EIS (rather than brewing with citric acid) because it provides a limit on the PPM on the silver that I would be afraid to go way to high otherwise. Several questions come to mind: 1. With this method, do you think the particle portion of the EIS will remain unaffected and help prevent against argyria? ** [I do not think that the citric acid will significantly react with silver particles. The citric acid will be a very weak acid solution.] About the pubmed study, here are two quotes about the solubility of silver citrate disassociating into ions: In concentrated solutions, containing more than 13 g/L of Ag(I) ion, the crystallization was observed. The maximum concentration of Ag(I) in the solution that can be achieved is estimated at about 23 g/L to 25 g/L if the concentration of citric acid is at least 4 mol/L or higher. (FYI 4 mol/L is about 800grams of citric acid) 2. They say more than 13PPM causes crystals. I hear about much much higher PPM of silver citrate products. Are those products not solutions? Are they just particles just swishing around in the water? **[13gm/liter is 13,000ppm and not 13ppm] 3. I read in old posts by frank key that the net charge in EIS has to be zero and that the cations need to balance the anions. Is this statement pertaining to a certain context that I didn't catch, or is this a general rule? If citric acid is an anion, and it is added, will other anions have to somehow leave the solution to maintain zero net charge? **[I will probably not get this exactly right. This is more in Marshall's and Ode's realm of knowledge. Silver citrate has a solubility of around 185 ppm in water. While in solution, silver ions can disassociate from the citrate and become free ions. At some point the silver will re-associate with the citrate, again becoming silver citrate. This association/disassociation will continue as long as the silver citrate is in solution. Silver citrate is effective for at least 2 reasons. First, silver citrate readily transitions between association and disassociation. Some silver complexes do not and they do not have as high an antimicrobial capability. The second reason that the relatively good solubility of silver citrate provides for more free silver ions to be available.] 4. This article gives me the impression that adding citric acid will just leave the silver as ions and the citric acid as anions. How will this change anything about what happens when it is ingested (getting back to my original task of trying to spike water with CS when there is other stuff in the water already) **[Silver has a higher reactivity with citrate than it has with chloride. This means that the silver citrate will not complex with the chloride in salt or stomach acid as long as there is sufficient citric acid/citrate available. This is why I recommended the conversion to silver citrate - to prevent the silver ions from forming less desirable complexes.] Thanks, ~David From: Norton, Steve Probably less than you can measure. E.g. 1 liter of 15 ppm CS would contain 15 mg of silver. Silver citrate contains 3 silver atoms for each citric acid molecule and the molecular weight of citric acid is approximately twice that of a silver atom. If you have a perfect complexing you would need roughly 10 mg of citric acid to convert the 1 liter of 15 ppm CS to silver citrate. 10 mg is hard to measure. So I would just add a pinch or more of citric acid and mix. Extra citric acid does no harm. Any old citric acid will do. Citric acid has is very antimicrobial. See: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2590638/ http://microbecide.com/index.php?main_page=microbecide - Steve N -- The Silver List is a moderated forum for discussing Colloidal Silver. Rules and Instructions: http://www.silverlist.org Unsubscribe: mailto:silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com?subject=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/silver-list@eskimo.com/maillist.html Off-Topic discussions: mailto:silver-off-topic-l...@eskimo.com List Owner: Mike Devour mailto:mdev...@eskimo.com
Re: CSvoltage meter/ CELL VOLTAGE Dr. Tennant's book
I have not said that Dr Tennant's device does not work. I am sure that it does. At least to some extent. His device is based on well known technology that studies have proven to provide pain relief and healing. However there are other devices on the market that are as good as or better than Dr Tennant's device. What I have taken issue with is his claims for how and why his device works. Actually, my original intent was to explain that you cannot measure cell voltage with a voltmeter. That then led to explaining that the -20 mV to -25 mV referred to by Dr Tennant is an artificial value used by digital pH meters and absolutely meaningless relative to the actual voltage of a cell. First a couple of quotes from Tennant's web site. http://www.tennantinstitute.com/TIIM_MAC/Dr._Tennants_Story.html Each cellular biology book gave passing notice to the fact that cells require a narrow range of pH, but little more was discussed on the subject. He began to look at pH and discovered that it is a measurement of the voltage in a solution. It is measured with a sophisticated voltmeter. If the solution is an electron donor, a minus sign is placed in front of the voltage. If the solution is an electron stealer, a plus sign is placed in front of the voltage. The measured voltage is then converted to a logarithmic scale from 0-14 with zero corresponding to +400 millivolts of electron stealer to -400 millivolts corresponding to a pH of 14. Cell are designed to run at about -20 millivolts (pH 7.35). Dr. Tennant began to understand that cells must have enough voltage to work and that chronic disease was associated with loss of voltage. Next he had to find out how to measure the voltage and then how to correct it. Ok, so Tennant is referring to the voltage of a pH meter. http://www.tennantinstitute.com/TIIM_MAC/Energetic_Medicine.html One can tap into either wiring system to measure the voltage in the organs. It is difficult to use a voltmeter to measure the organ voltage because voltage surges about every six seconds. Thus we commonly use an ohmmeter to measure and then convert that to voltage. There are several devices designed to accurately and reproducibly measure organ voltage like the Nakatani (MEAD) system, the Voll systems, and the Tennant Biomodulator. By placing one of these devices onto a wire known to go to each organ, one can know the voltage in that organ. Cells in the adult human are designed to run at -20 to -25 millivolts and to heal at -50 millivolts. The minus sign means that the voltage is an electron donor. If the voltage drops to the point the solution is an electron stealer, we put a plus sign in front of the voltage. Cancer occurs at +30 millivolts. If you do a search on the Nakatani (MEAD) system and the Voll systems you will find that neither measures organ voltages much less cell voltages. Apparently the Tennant Biomodulator uses an ohmmeter for measurement and then converts the ohm reading to a voltage. Theoretically a voltage could look like a resistance if it has the opposite polarity of the voltage used by the ohmmeter and a magnitude less than the voltage used by the ohmmeter. However this method as used would be fraught with potential errors. And even if you got a measurement, it would not be the voltage of a cell. What is the voltage of a cell? Not -20 to -25 millivolts. Not -50 millivolts. But -70 millivolts for a resting cell. See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Resting_potential The resting voltage is the result of several ion-translocating enzymes (uniporters, cotransporters, and pumps) in the plasma membrane, steadily operating in parallel, whereby each ion-translocator has its characteristic electromotive force (= reversal potential = 'equilibrium voltage'), depending on the particular substrate concentrations inside and outside (internal ATP included in case of some pumps). H+ exporting ATPase render the membrane voltage in plants and fungi much more negative than in the more extensively investigated animal cells, where the resting voltage is mainly determined by selective ion channels. In most neurons the resting potential has a value of approximately -70 mV. The resting potential is mostly determined by the concentrations of the ions in the fluids on both sides of the cell membrane and the ion transport proteins that are in the cell membrane. How the concentrations of ions and the membrane transport proteins influence the value of the resting potential is outlined below. There is also a voltage associated with what are called excitable cells. Excitable cells include neurons, muscle cells, and endocrine cells. At rest, their voltage is -70 mV and increases to approximately +40 mV when activated. See Figure 1 at: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Action_potential Action potentials occur in several types of animal cells, called excitable cells, which include neurons, muscle cells, and endocrine cells. In neurons, they play a central role in cell-to-cell communication. In
Re: CSvoltage meter/ CELL VOLTAGE Dr. Tennant's book
I try and make a point of not recommending a specific CS supplier and in this case a specific pain reducer. I don't want to appear to have a bias and they are only my opinion. What I would look for in a device might not be what you need. There were several different suppliers mentioned in a previous discussion on this within the last couple of months. Ode had a concept for one that might be very useable and lower cost but I don't know if he is pursuing it. (It would also make CS). Your question would be better answered by some of the silver-listers that have tried the different pain reducers. - Steve N -Original Message- From: needling around [mailto:ptf2...@bellsouth.net] Sent: Monday, September 27, 2010 6:22 PM To: silver-list@eskimo.com Subject: Re: CSvoltage meter/ CELL VOLTAGE Dr. Tennant's book Hi Steve, Would you mind sharing the names of devices that you feel are as good or better than the biomodulator? I am in the market and would be interested in your opinion. Thank you. PT - Original Message - From: Norton, Steve stephen.nor...@ngc.com To: silver-list@eskimo.com Sent: Monday, September 27, 2010 9:04 PM Subject: Re: CSvoltage meter/ CELL VOLTAGE Dr. Tennant's book I have not said that Dr Tennant's device does not work. I am sure that it does. At least to some extent. His device is based on well known technology that studies have proven to provide pain relief and healing. However there are other devices on the market that are as good as or better than Dr Tennant's device. What I have taken issue with is his claims for how and why his device works. Actually, my original intent was to explain that you cannot measure cell voltage with a voltmeter. That then led to explaining that the -20 mV to -25 mV referred to by Dr Tennant is an artificial value used by digital pH meters and absolutely meaningless relative to the actual voltage of a cell. First a couple of quotes from Tennant's web site. http://www.tennantinstitute.com/TIIM_MAC/Dr._Tennants_Story.html Each cellular biology book gave passing notice to the fact that cells require a narrow range of pH, but little more was discussed on the subject. He began to look at pH and discovered that it is a measurement of the voltage in a solution. It is measured with a sophisticated voltmeter. If the solution is an electron donor, a minus sign is placed in front of the voltage. If the solution is an electron stealer, a plus sign is placed in front of the voltage. The measured voltage is then converted to a logarithmic scale from 0-14 with zero corresponding to +400 millivolts of electron stealer to -400 millivolts corresponding to a pH of 14. Cell are designed to run at about -20 millivolts (pH 7.35). Dr. Tennant began to understand that cells must have enough voltage to work and that chronic disease was associated with loss of voltage. Next he had to find out how to measure the voltage and then how to correct it. Ok, so Tennant is referring to the voltage of a pH meter. http://www.tennantinstitute.com/TIIM_MAC/Energetic_Medicine.html One can tap into either wiring system to measure the voltage in the organs. It is difficult to use a voltmeter to measure the organ voltage because voltage surges about every six seconds. Thus we commonly use an ohmmeter to measure and then convert that to voltage. There are several devices designed to accurately and reproducibly measure organ voltage like the Nakatani (MEAD) system, the Voll systems, and the Tennant Biomodulator. By placing one of these devices onto a wire known to go to each organ, one can know the voltage in that organ. Cells in the adult human are designed to run at -20 to -25 millivolts and to heal at -50 millivolts. The minus sign means that the voltage is an electron donor. If the voltage drops to the point the solution is an electron stealer, we put a plus sign in front of the voltage. Cancer occurs at +30 millivolts. If you do a search on the Nakatani (MEAD) system and the Voll systems you will find that neither measures organ voltages much less cell voltages. Apparently the Tennant Biomodulator uses an ohmmeter for measurement and then converts the ohm reading to a voltage. Theoretically a voltage could look like a resistance if it has the opposite polarity of the voltage used by the ohmmeter and a magnitude less than the voltage used by the ohmmeter. However this method as used would be fraught with potential errors. And even if you got a measurement, it would not be the voltage of a cell. What is the voltage of a cell? Not -20 to -25 millivolts. Not -50 millivolts. But -70 millivolts for a resting cell. See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Resting_potential The resting voltage is the result of several ion-translocating enzymes (uniporters, cotransporters, and pumps) in the plasma membrane, steadily operating in parallel, whereby each ion-translocator has its characteristic electromotive force (= reversal potential = 'equilibrium voltage'), depending
Re: CSvoltage meter/ CELL VOLTAGE Dr. Tennant's book
One advantage of the biomodulator is its small handheld size. I think that is also its drawback. These devices work by delivering currents to the needed locations. By having fixed electrodes with little separation between them you will get little penetration of electrical currents into the body. I prefer electrodes that can be located to send electrical current to where you need it most. I place less emphasis on 'special' waveforms. A study of various waveform patterns showed little difference in performance between the waveform patterns. In fact some generators use randomly generated pulses to great effect. Waveform shape has some impact on performance and can make a great difference in comfort. What is it you don't like about your scenar units? What do you think the biomodulator will do that the scenar doesn't? Thanks, Steve -Original Message- From: needling around [mailto:ptf2...@bellsouth.net] Sent: Monday, September 27, 2010 7:43 PM To: silver-list@eskimo.com Subject: Re: CSvoltage meter/ CELL VOLTAGE Dr. Tennant's book Thanks. You seemed to have an opinion. I already have 2 scenar units and was looking at the biomodulator as a possible addition. You don't seem too impressed with it and I am wondering what you do like as just a wider field to research before making a major investment. PT - Original Message - From: Norton, Steve stephen.nor...@ngc.com To: silver-list@eskimo.com Sent: Monday, September 27, 2010 9:39 PM Subject: Re: CSvoltage meter/ CELL VOLTAGE Dr. Tennant's book I try and make a point of not recommending a specific CS supplier and in this case a specific pain reducer. I don't want to appear to have a bias and they are only my opinion. What I would look for in a device might not be what you need. There were several different suppliers mentioned in a previous discussion on this within the last couple of months. Ode had a concept for one that might be very useable and lower cost but I don't know if he is pursuing it. (It would also make CS). Your question would be better answered by some of the silver-listers that have tried the different pain reducers. - Steve N -Original Message- From: needling around [mailto:ptf2...@bellsouth.net] Sent: Monday, September 27, 2010 6:22 PM To: silver-list@eskimo.com Subject: Re: CSvoltage meter/ CELL VOLTAGE Dr. Tennant's book Hi Steve, Would you mind sharing the names of devices that you feel are as good or better than the biomodulator? I am in the market and would be interested in your opinion. Thank you. PT - Original Message - From: Norton, Steve stephen.nor...@ngc.com To: silver-list@eskimo.com Sent: Monday, September 27, 2010 9:04 PM Subject: Re: CSvoltage meter/ CELL VOLTAGE Dr. Tennant's book I have not said that Dr Tennant's device does not work. I am sure that it does. At least to some extent. His device is based on well known technology that studies have proven to provide pain relief and healing. However there are other devices on the market that are as good as or better than Dr Tennant's device. What I have taken issue with is his claims for how and why his device works. Actually, my original intent was to explain that you cannot measure cell voltage with a voltmeter. That then led to explaining that the -20 mV to -25 mV referred to by Dr Tennant is an artificial value used by digital pH meters and absolutely meaningless relative to the actual voltage of a cell. First a couple of quotes from Tennant's web site. http://www.tennantinstitute.com/TIIM_MAC/Dr._Tennants_Story.html Each cellular biology book gave passing notice to the fact that cells require a narrow range of pH, but little more was discussed on the subject. He began to look at pH and discovered that it is a measurement of the voltage in a solution. It is measured with a sophisticated voltmeter. If the solution is an electron donor, a minus sign is placed in front of the voltage. If the solution is an electron stealer, a plus sign is placed in front of the voltage. The measured voltage is then converted to a logarithmic scale from 0-14 with zero corresponding to +400 millivolts of electron stealer to -400 millivolts corresponding to a pH of 14. Cell are designed to run at about -20 millivolts (pH 7.35). Dr. Tennant began to understand that cells must have enough voltage to work and that chronic disease was associated with loss of voltage. Next he had to find out how to measure the voltage and then how to correct it. Ok, so Tennant is referring to the voltage of a pH meter. http://www.tennantinstitute.com/TIIM_MAC/Energetic_Medicine.html One can tap into either wiring system to measure the voltage in the organs. It is difficult to use a voltmeter to measure the organ voltage because voltage surges about every six seconds. Thus we commonly use an ohmmeter to measure and then convert that to voltage. There are several devices designed to accurately and reproducibly measure organ voltage like the Nakatani
Re: CSWill CS interact with any of these?
Personally, would mix the EIS with citric acid or a citrus juice to convert it to silver citrate before combining with the others. - Steve N From: David AuBuchon [mailto:aubuchon.da...@gmail.com] Sent: Monday, September 27, 2010 10:09 PM To: silver-list@eskimo.com Subject: Re: CSWill CS interact with any of these? Ya, that I can understand. I am speaking of bicarb by itself. An interesting aside: some docs use IV insulin to target things to cancer cells, which has a better effect than IV glucose, and does not feed the cancer metabolism. Anyway, back to the original question: will CS loose its usefulness if mixed with any of the following?: bicarb, sea salt, electrolytes, vitamin C?
Re: CSCS and killing of pathogens
Why would the moving magnetic field matter? Induced electric currents on the silver particles? Also, the purpose of the stirrer is to move the liquid in conjunction with the stirrer. The liquid may not see a rapidly shifting magnetic field. - Steve N -Original Message- From: Marshall Dudley [mailto:mdud...@king-cart.com] Sent: Thursday, September 23, 2010 7:32 AM To: silver-list@eskimo.com Subject: Re: CSCS and killing of pathogens There is no rapidly shifting magnetic field associated with stomach churning. Marshall -- The Silver List is a moderated forum for discussing Colloidal Silver. Rules and Instructions: http://www.silverlist.org Unsubscribe: mailto:silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com?subject=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/silver-list@eskimo.com/maillist.html Off-Topic discussions: mailto:silver-off-topic-l...@eskimo.com List Owner: Mike Devour mailto:mdev...@eskimo.com
Re: CSvoltage meter
Dr. Tennant doesn't explain his claim that all cells in the body need between -20 mV and -25 mV. Without an explanation his claim is pretty much worthless. But let me make a guess. The optimal blood pH is somewhere between 7.35 and 7.45. If blood pH moves below 6.8 or above 7.8, cells stop functioning and the body dies. A pH meter measures Ph as follows (http://www.omega.com/techref/ph-3.html): pH electrodes are constructed from a special composition glass which senses the hydrogen ion concentration. This glass is typically composed of alkali metal ions. The alkali metal ions of the glass and the hydrogen ions in solution undergo an ion exchange reaction, generating a potential difference. In a combination pH electrode, the most widely used variety, there are actually two electrodes in one body. One portion is called the measuring electrode, the other the reference electrode. The potential generated at the junction site of the measuring portion is due to the free hydrogen ions present in solution. The potential of the reference portion is produced by the internal element in contact with the reference fill solution. This potential is always constant. In summary, the measuring electrode delivers a varying voltage and the reference electrode delivers a constant voltage to the meter. pH electrodes are like batteries; they run down with time and use. As an electrode ages, its glass changes resistance. This resistance change alters the electrode potential. For this reason, electrodes need to be calibrated on a regular basis. Calibration in pH buffer solution corrects for this change. Calibration of any pH equipment should always begin with buffer 7.0 as this is the zero point. The pH scale has an equivalent mV scale. The mV scale ranges from +420 to -420 mV. At a pH of 7.0 the mV value is 0. Each pH change corresponds to a change of ±60 mV. As pH values become more acidic the mV values become greater. For example, a pH of 4.0 corresponds to a value of 180 mV. As pH values become more basic the mV values become more negative; pH=9 corresponds to -120 mV. Therefore a pH meter reading between -20 mV and -25 mV would correspond to a pH of 7.33 to 7.41. A fairly startling coincidence I would say. I think that this is where Dr. Tennant gets his claim. But his claim is total nonsense in the context he uses it. The pH meter uses a specially designed probe which basically creates a battery that uses free hydrogen ions as the electrolyte. The voltage measured is directly related to the amount of free hydrogen ions in the electrolyte. You cannot use a voltmeter to measure the pH of the skin, a liquid on the skin or a cell. Tennant's claim of doing so is rubbish. Dr. Tennant uses this supposed effect to explain what his device does but it is all show and false science. And there is no way that his device can alter the body or a cell's pH. His device appears to be similar to a number of other devices that are used to reduce pain. Dr. Tennant has several patents but they are what I believe are called application patents. They only patent certain pulse configurations that Tennant's device uses and not the underlying methodology. The other makers of pain reduction devices also have their 'unique' application patents but the underlying methodology is the same for all of them. - Steve N -- The Silver List is a moderated forum for discussing Colloidal Silver. Rules and Instructions: http://www.silverlist.org Unsubscribe: mailto:silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com?subject=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/silver-list@eskimo.com/maillist.html Off-Topic discussions: mailto:silver-off-topic-l...@eskimo.com List Owner: Mike Devour mailto:mdev...@eskimo.com
RE: CSvoltage meter
The sentence below should have read And there is no way that his device can permanently alter the body or a cell's pH. - Steve N -Original Message- From: Norton, Steve Sent: Thursday, September 23, 2010 5:05 PM To: 'silver-list@eskimo.com' Subject: Re: CSvoltage meter Dr. Tennant doesn't explain his claim that all cells in the body need between -20 mV and -25 mV. Without an explanation his claim is pretty much worthless. But let me make a guess. The optimal blood pH is somewhere between 7.35 and 7.45. If blood pH moves below 6.8 or above 7.8, cells stop functioning and the body dies. A pH meter measures Ph as follows (http://www.omega.com/techref/ph-3.html): pH electrodes are constructed from a special composition glass which senses the hydrogen ion concentration. This glass is typically composed of alkali metal ions. The alkali metal ions of the glass and the hydrogen ions in solution undergo an ion exchange reaction, generating a potential difference. In a combination pH electrode, the most widely used variety, there are actually two electrodes in one body. One portion is called the measuring electrode, the other the reference electrode. The potential generated at the junction site of the measuring portion is due to the free hydrogen ions present in solution. The potential of the reference portion is produced by the internal element in contact with the reference fill solution. This potential is always constant. In summary, the measuring electrode delivers a varying voltage and the reference electrode delivers a constant voltage to the meter. pH electrodes are like batteries; they run down with time and use. As an electrode ages, its glass changes resistance. This resistance change alters the electrode potential. For this reason, electrodes need to be calibrated on a regular basis. Calibration in pH buffer solution corrects for this change. Calibration of any pH equipment should always begin with buffer 7.0 as this is the zero point. The pH scale has an equivalent mV scale. The mV scale ranges from +420 to -420 mV. At a pH of 7.0 the mV value is 0. Each pH change corresponds to a change of ±60 mV. As pH values become more acidic the mV values become greater. For example, a pH of 4.0 corresponds to a value of 180 mV. As pH values become more basic the mV values become more negative; pH=9 corresponds to -120 mV. Therefore a pH meter reading between -20 mV and -25 mV would correspond to a pH of 7.33 to 7.41. A fairly startling coincidence I would say. I think that this is where Dr. Tennant gets his claim. But his claim is total nonsense in the context he uses it. The pH meter uses a specially designed probe which basically creates a battery that uses free hydrogen ions as the electrolyte. The voltage measured is directly related to the amount of free hydrogen ions in the electrolyte. You cannot use a voltmeter to measure the pH of the skin, a liquid on the skin or a cell. Tennant's claim of doing so is rubbish. Dr. Tennant uses this supposed effect to explain what his device does but it is all show and false science. And there is no way that his device can alter the body or a cell's pH. His device appears to be similar to a number of other devices that are used to reduce pain. Dr. Tennant has several patents but they are what I believe are called application patents. They only patent certain pulse configurations that Tennant's device uses and not the underlying methodology. The other makers of pain reduction devices also have their 'unique' application patents but the underlying methodology is the same for all of them. - Steve N -- The Silver List is a moderated forum for discussing Colloidal Silver. Rules and Instructions: http://www.silverlist.org Unsubscribe: mailto:silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com?subject=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/silver-list@eskimo.com/maillist.html Off-Topic discussions: mailto:silver-off-topic-l...@eskimo.com List Owner: Mike Devour mailto:mdev...@eskimo.com
Re: EXTERNAL:CSZapper for Tooth Pain
I used a godzilla on a gold crown. I used the crown as one electrode and located the second electrode outside the mouth where the current would flow throuth the tooth. Seemed to work. - Steve N - Original Message - From: Pat [mailto:pattycake29...@yahoo.com] Sent: Wednesday, September 22, 2010 03:41 PM To: silver list silver-list@eskimo.com Subject: EXTERNAL:CSZapper for Tooth Pain Can you use a zapper on a tooth with a large filling? How about one with a crown? Have a tooth that's getting sensitive and hurts a bit, so I want to know before I NEED to know. Thanks. Pat -- The Silver List is a moderated forum for discussing Colloidal Silver. Rules and Instructions: http://www.silverlist.org Unsubscribe: mailto:silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com?subject=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/silver-list@eskimo.com/maillist.html Off-Topic discussions: mailto:silver-off-topic-l...@eskimo.com List Owner: Mike Devour mailto:mdev...@eskimo.com
Re: EXTERNAL:Re: CSCS and killing of pathogens
Marshall, I didn't know till yesterday that the Figures were there. Great work reading those postage size pictures! I am surprised that there was some residue silver nitrate. Sloppy lab work. I was interested in the particle size graph but I couldn't read the axis markings. I looked for studies regarding making silver nanoparticles from silver nitrate. I found a number of them. The particle sizes the achieved were mostly in the range of 200 to 10 nm. I did finally find one that claimed 2 nm. It appears that under 15 nm isn't easy. I think the particle size is important. If it takes days to convert a 15 nm particle it still may take a short time with smaller particles. For example here are some ROM estimates on silver particle sizes: * 1 nm, approx 30 atoms * 2.34 nm, approx 400 atoms * 15 nm, approx 100,000 atoms My recolection is that Mesosilver claims particle sizes under 2 nm and that many are as small as 9 atoms. EIS with H2O2 has many as small as a couple atoms. Will they convert in stomach acid? Plus, when digesting, the stomach churns continuously. Isn't that similar to magnetic stirring? - Steve N - Original Message - From: Marshall Dudley [mailto:mdud...@king-cart.com] Sent: Wednesday, September 22, 2010 10:59 AM To: silver-list@eskimo.com silver-list@eskimo.com Subject: EXTERNAL:Re: CSCS and killing of pathogens Without being able to read the whole article, it gives more questions than it answers. If I am interpreting figure 2 correctly, then there is a substantial amount of silver nitrate in the sample. Then it appears that they detected silver chloride in the result after mixing with HCl. If there is ANY nitrate left, there will be silver chloride produced. The concentration and temperature are still unknowns as well. One of the figures implies that the conversion took 3 days, and that magnetic stirring was used. If that is the case it would not be applicable to the stomach where contents normally reside for no more than a couple of hours. Also magnetic stirring can have a significant effect as well. So all in all, without being able to read the entire article it is hard to say if the results have anything to do with EIS in the stomach. If anyone has a library close that carries this journal it should be possible to get a copy of the article. I will try the UT library. Marshall Norton, Steve wrote: Marshall, I do not have a copy of the article. The link I provided does have a little more info if you click the Figures/Tables tab above the abstract. It provides small low resolution figures with the text associated with the figure: Fig. 1. XRD patterns of samples. (a) Ag nanoparticles prepared by using AgNO3 as the silver source and obtained by drying the Ag colloidal solution on a single crystal silicon substrate, (b) the product of AgCl obtained from the reaction of Ag nanoparticles with hydrochloric acid, (c) commercial Ag powder, (d) after commercial Ag powder was added into hydrochloric acid under magnetic stirring for 3 days. Fig. 2. UV-vis absorption spectra. Dotted curve: the Ag colloidal solution prepared. Dashed curve: AgNO3 aqueous solution. Solid curve: the upper transparent solution after the reaction of the Ag colloid with hydrochloric acid. Fig. 3. (a) TEM micrographs of Ag nanoparticles prepared using AgNO3 as the silver source, (b) The histogram of Ag particle size distribution Fig. 4. (a) TEM micrograph of the polyacrylamide (PAM)/silver nanocomposite, (b) XRD pattern of PAM/silver nanocomposite, (c) XRD pattern of the product after the reaction of PAM/silver nanocomposite with hydrochloric acid. It does not give intermediate results before the end of the three days nor does it give the concentration of the HCl used. It appears to me that all the silver particles in the test were converted to silver chloride. - Steve N -Original Message- From: Marshall Dudley [mailto:mdud...@king-cart.com] Sent: Tuesday, September 21, 2010 1:00 PM To: silver-list@eskimo.com Subject: Re: CSCS and killing of pathogens Does anyone have a copy of this article? All I can get is the abstract, and $37.50 for this seems rather absurd. Long ago I tried mixing colloidal silver with hydrochloric acid and was unable to get any observed reaction without heating it (with the colloidal part). There is some very important information missing from the abstract, such as what concentrations, temperatures are needed and how long the reaction takes. Marshall -- The Silver List is a moderated forum for discussing Colloidal Silver. Rules and Instructions: http://www.silverlist.org Unsubscribe: mailto:silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com?subjectsubscribe Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/silver-list@eskimo.com/maillist.html Off-Topic discussions: mailto:silver-off-topic-l...@eskimo.com List Owner: Mike Devour mailto:mdev...@eskimo.com
Re: EXTERNAL:CSZapper for Tooth Pain
No. I use 4.5 volts with no resistor. - Steve N From: Steve G [mailto:chube...@yahoo.com] Sent: Wednesday, September 22, 2010 08:53 PM To: silver-list@eskimo.com silver-list@eskimo.com Subject: Re: EXTERNAL:CSZapper for Tooth Pain Wouldn't that make you jump out of your skin? I had my wife use Godzilla externally when she was having a lot of bleeding from her gums. Cleared it all up in 15 minutes, one application. Steve --- On Wed, 9/22/10, Norton, Steve stephen.nor...@ngc.com wrote: From: Norton, Steve stephen.nor...@ngc.com Subject: Re: EXTERNAL:CSZapper for Tooth Pain To: silver-list@eskimo.com Date: Wednesday, September 22, 2010, 6:24 PM I used a godzilla on a gold crown. I used the crown as one electrode and located the second electrode outside the mouth where the current would flow throuth the tooth. Seemed to work. - Steve N
Re: CSCS and killing of pathogens
I have never seen verification of the claim that CS kills 650 different pathogens. But then I have never really tried to find verification since I consider it immaterial. The important information in my opinion is that CS has been shown to kill pathogens by five different methods. These five methods give CS a very broad antiviral, antimicrobial and antifungal capability. Including effectiveness against both gram positive and gram negative bacteria. No antibiotic comes close to matching CS. It also makes it very difficult for a virus or bacteria to develop an immunity against CS. (Antibiotics each have a single method of attacking bacteria.) To a large extent, ppm is immaterial except as a method of knowing the total amount of silver ingested. You can take one half ounce of 20 ppm CS or 1 ounce of 10 ppm CS and the effect is the same. Ppm can be an issue when CS is used topically and combined with other liquids that can dilute the CS more than you desire. CS has been shown to be effective at low concentrations. The primary reason is that silver is not consumed in the process of killing a pathogen. The same silver ion continues to attack further pathogens until it is excreted by the body. However higher concentrations of silver get the job done quicker. Also, if there is a large number of pathogens, the pathogens may reproduce at a rate higher than the kill rate of the CS if the silver concentration is too low. You have probably read the claim by some suppliers of particle based CS that ionic silver is not effective and that only silver particles are active. And that the effectiveness of particle silver is dependent on the total surface area if the silver particles. It turns out that nothing is further from the truth. A fairly recent study has shown that stomach acid is highly reactive with silver nanoparticles and converts the silver nanoparticles the same as it does ionic silver. If the silver particles are large enough some of the particle may escape conversion but the same would be true of the silver particles in CS generated by electrolysis. - Steve N - Original Message - From: j petras mailto:jpetras...@yahoo.com To: silver-list@eskimo.com Sent: Monday, September 20, 2010 3:12 AM Subject: CSCS and killing of pathogens Medical journal studies, it has been reported, have shown that CS is effective in killing over 650 different pathogens. I guess most all of us on the list concur with that. We have all read this as promoted by numerous sites marketing CS. Now with all scientific controls used in the studies and other considerations aside... I would ask, at what PPM has this been conducted? As for myself, I use CS...and have seen positive results in its' use. However, to cut through the hype (if there is any)...does a blanket statement of efficacy for CS killing 650 pathogens apply to product in the 5-10 PPM range ie., that which is typically sold or made at home with users generators? Is there any substantial correlation in its' effectiveness in this range? Thanking you for any clarification on this, John
Re: CSCS and killing of pathogens
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science?_ob=ArticleURL_udi=B6WHR-4KH3YG7-4 _user=10_coverDate=11%2F15%2F2006_rdoc=1_fmt=high_orig=search_orig in=search_sort=d_docanchor=view=c_searchStrId=1469043580_rerunOrigi n=google_acct=C50221_version=1_urlVersion=0_userid=10md5=8146e7 8f52c98b9450565614ad3dd198searchtype=a High chemical reactivity of silver nanoparticles toward hydrochloric acid High chemical reactivity of Ag nanoparticles was observed in the reaction with hydrochloric acid: Ag (nanoparticles) +HCI - AgCl + H-2; the reaction product silver chloride was characterized by X-ray powder diffraction to give a direct evidence for the reaction which has been proved impossible for the bulk Ag. - Steve N From: David AuBuchon [mailto:aubuchon.da...@gmail.com] Sent: Tuesday, September 21, 2010 11:05 AM To: silver-list@eskimo.com Subject: Re: CSCS and killing of pathogens Hey Steve, I had been wondering that. It seemed strange to me that it was automatically assumed that particles could get by the stomach acid untouched, as if it was self evident. If you have any info on that, I would like to have it. Thanks, ~David You have probably read the claim by some suppliers of particle based CS that ionic silver is not effective and that only silver particles are active. And that the effectiveness of particle silver is dependent on the total surface area if the silver particles. It turns out that nothing is further from the truth. A fairly recent study has shown that stomach acid is highly reactive with silver nanoparticles and converts the silver nanoparticles the same as it does ionic silver. If the silver particles are large enough some of the particle may escape conversion but the same would be true of the silver particles in CS generated by electrolysis. - Steve N
Re: CSCS and killing of pathogens
Marshall, I do not have a copy of the article. The link I provided does have a little more info if you click the Figures/Tables tab above the abstract. It provides small low resolution figures with the text associated with the figure: Fig. 1. XRD patterns of samples. (a) Ag nanoparticles prepared by using AgNO3 as the silver source and obtained by drying the Ag colloidal solution on a single crystal silicon substrate, (b) the product of AgCl obtained from the reaction of Ag nanoparticles with hydrochloric acid, (c) commercial Ag powder, (d) after commercial Ag powder was added into hydrochloric acid under magnetic stirring for 3 days. Fig. 2. UV-vis absorption spectra. Dotted curve: the Ag colloidal solution prepared. Dashed curve: AgNO3 aqueous solution. Solid curve: the upper transparent solution after the reaction of the Ag colloid with hydrochloric acid. Fig. 3. (a) TEM micrographs of Ag nanoparticles prepared using AgNO3 as the silver source, (b) The histogram of Ag particle size distribution Fig. 4. (a) TEM micrograph of the polyacrylamide (PAM)/silver nanocomposite, (b) XRD pattern of PAM/silver nanocomposite, (c) XRD pattern of the product after the reaction of PAM/silver nanocomposite with hydrochloric acid. It does not give intermediate results before the end of the three days nor does it give the concentration of the HCl used. It appears to me that all the silver particles in the test were converted to silver chloride. - Steve N -Original Message- From: Marshall Dudley [mailto:mdud...@king-cart.com] Sent: Tuesday, September 21, 2010 1:00 PM To: silver-list@eskimo.com Subject: Re: CSCS and killing of pathogens Does anyone have a copy of this article? All I can get is the abstract, and $37.50 for this seems rather absurd. Long ago I tried mixing colloidal silver with hydrochloric acid and was unable to get any observed reaction without heating it (with the colloidal part). There is some very important information missing from the abstract, such as what concentrations, temperatures are needed and how long the reaction takes. Marshall -- The Silver List is a moderated forum for discussing Colloidal Silver. Rules and Instructions: http://www.silverlist.org Unsubscribe: mailto:silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com?subject=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/silver-list@eskimo.com/maillist.html Off-Topic discussions: mailto:silver-off-topic-l...@eskimo.com List Owner: Mike Devour mailto:mdev...@eskimo.com
RE: CSCS and killing of pathogens
Neville and John, I don't mean to ignore you but right at the moment I don't have time to respond to your comments. I will when I get time. I addition, Marshall may have some thoughts that will affect it, - Steve N From: Neville Munn [mailto:one.red...@hotmail.com] Sent: Tuesday, September 21, 2010 3:07 PM To: silver-list@eskimo.com Subject: RE: CSCS and killing of pathogens Steve, I'll lead with my chin again, how much of that's relevant *within* the human body? AgN03, Commercial Ag powder, TEM micrographs, polywhateverthey'recalled etc etc...Makes for good reading for the academic, but how relevant is all this *within* the human body and/or blood? I've read scads of stuff similar to this but being chemistry illiterate I don't see a connection within the human body. Praps this could be broken down into something a little more suitable for the layman? N. Subject: Re: CSCS and killing of pathogens Date: Tue, 21 Sep 2010 15:36:18 -0500 From: stephen.nor...@ngc.com To: silver-list@eskimo.com Marshall, I do not have a copy of the article. The link I provided does have a little more info if you click the Figures/Tables tab above the abstract. It provides small low resolution figures with the text associated with the figure: Fig. 1. XRD patterns of samples. (a) Ag nanoparticles prepared by using AgNO3 as the silver source and obtained by drying the Ag colloidal solution on a single crystal silicon substrate, (b) the product of AgCl obtained from the reaction of Ag nanoparticles with hydrochloric acid, (c) commercial Ag powder, (d) after commercial Ag powder was added into hydrochloric acid under magnetic stirring for 3 days. Fig. 2. UV-vis absorption spectra. Dotted curve: the Ag colloidal solution prepared. Dashed curve: AgNO3 aqueous solution. Solid curve: the upper transparent solution after the reaction of the Ag colloid with hydrochloric acid. Fig. 3. (a) TEM micrographs of Ag nanoparticles prepared using AgNO3 as the silver source, (b) The histogram of Ag particle size distribution Fig. 4. (a) TEM micrograph of the polyacrylamide (PAM)/silver nanocomposite, (b) XRD pattern of PAM/silver nanocomposite, (c) XRD pattern of the product after the reaction of PAM/silver nanocomposite with hydrochloric acid. It does not give intermediate results before the end of the three days nor does it give the concentration of the HCl used. It appears to me that all the silver particles in the test were converted to silver chloride. - Steve N -Original Message- From: Marshall Dudley [mailto:mdud...@king-cart.com] Sent: Tuesday, September 21, 2010 1:00 PM To: silver-list@eskimo.com Subject: Re: CSCS and killing of pathogens Does anyone have a copy of this article? All I can get is the abstract, and $37.50 for this seems rather absurd. Long ago I tried mixing colloidal silver with hydrochloric acid and was unable to get any observed reaction without heating it (with the colloidal part). There is some very important information missing from the abstract, such as what concentrations, temperatures are needed and how long the reaction takes. Marshall -- The Silver List is a moderated forum for discussing Colloidal Silver. Rules and Instructions: http://www.silverlist.org Unsubscribe: mailto:silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com?subject=subscribe Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/silver-list@eskimo.com/maillist.html Off-Topic discussions: mailto:silver-off-topic-l...@eskimo.com List Owner: Mike Devour mailto:mdev...@eskimo.com
Re: CSvoltage meter
I would very much like to know just what voltage Dr. Tennant is talking about. If you are not grounded and in an RF shielded room, you are very likely to measure voltage potentials caused by static charges or outside electromagnetic signals. I have read that you are also able to pick up small electrical potential variations going through the skin when muscles are contracting and relaxing.. With a bit of testing and practice you can raise, lower and reverse the polarity of the tiny voltages present on your skin. If he is talking about voltage across a cell membrane I don't see how that is possible. See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nernst_equation http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goldman_equation The voltage level of -20 mV and -25 mV would seem to relate to a cell membrane voltage but you cannot measure a single cell's membrane voltage potential. In his video he moves his whatchamacallit across the skin looking for dry areas and says that they indicate areas of low voltage potential. But you would measure skin resistivity to find those areas not voltage. I don't think you can use a voltmeter to measure anything relevant. - Steve N From: Don Barnes [mailto:donfi...@gmail.com] Sent: Monday, September 20, 2010 5:29 PM To: silver-list@eskimo.com Cc: donfi...@gmail.com Subject: EXTERNAL:Re: CSvoltage meter Dr. Jerry Tennant was interviewed on www.coasttocoastam.com July 21, 2010. He has found all cells in the body need between -20 MV and -25 MV Larry Lytle has his Q-1000 laser as well. see youtube On Tue, Sep 14, 2010 at 1:24 PM, needling around ptf2...@bellsouth.net wrote: Hi, I was recently watching a video that was recommended and the doctor suggested using a voltage meter to measure the voltage of different points on the body. I was wondering if anyone has ever tried this and if there are any caveats? Thanks. PT -- The Silver List is a moderated forum for discussing Colloidal Silver. Rules and Instructions: http://www.silverlist.org Unsubscribe: mailto:silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com?subject=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/silver-list@eskimo.com/maillist.html Off-Topic discussions: mailto:silver-off-topic-l...@eskimo.com List Owner: Mike Devour mailto:mdev...@eskimo.com
RE: CSFwd: Water Vortex Magnetizer: COMMENT
Brooks, This information is greatly appreciated. However the post that did not get through was the email referencing your experiences with water structuring. Could please try and resend that one? Thanks, Steve N -Original Message- From: Brooks Bradley [mailto:bradlebro...@gmail.com] Sent: Thursday, September 16, 2010 3:46 PM To: silver-list@eskimo.com Subject: EXTERNAL:CSFwd: Water Vortex Magnetizer: COMMENT -- Forwarded message -- From: Brooks Bradley bradlebro...@gmail.com Date: Thu, Sep 16, 2010 at 5:33 PM Subject: Water Vortex Magnetizer: COMMENT To: Silver-list@eskimo.com About one our ago I sent an email referencing our experiences with water structuring. Due to my faulty memory, I failed to include some simple construction details which enable the DIY individual to AVOID COMPLETELY, the expense and effort of obtaining a commercial version of the double-female coupling for connecting the two bottles together. All that is required is to obtain two of the plastic tops from any two liter drink bottles and secure them (top-to-top) together by gluing or plastic weldingnext, drill a 3/8 to 1/2 inch hole (your choice) through both, simultaneously. Dress the hole if desired.by lightly sanding with sandpaper wrapped around a pencil. You now have a serviceable connector for, essentially, no additional cost. Some commercial connections cost as much as $35...and do not offer any, better results than does this little home-made innovation. Sincerely, Brooks Bradley. p.s. Earlier I attempted to send a similar email to this one...it bounced. I hope to have better luckthis time. -- The Silver List is a moderated forum for discussing Colloidal Silver. Rules and Instructions: http://www.silverlist.org Unsubscribe: mailto:silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com?subject=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/silver-list@eskimo.com/maillist.html Off-Topic discussions: mailto:silver-off-topic-l...@eskimo.com List Owner: Mike Devour mailto:mdev...@eskimo.com
Re: CSTurpentine, Vitamin E and Healing
Not really sure. Turpentine is antimicrobial and antifungal and may be sufficient to preserve the Vitamin E. But since turpentine is not water miscible, you can't add CS. One possibility to insure a long shelf life could be to add a small amount of oregano or rosemary essential oil to the mix. - Steve -Original Message- From: needling around [mailto:ptf2...@bellsouth.net] Sent: Tuesday, September 14, 2010 12:40 PM To: silver-list@eskimo.com Subject: Re: CSTurpentine, Vitamin E and Healing Any idea what the shelf life is? Is it something that has to be made up each time or can one make up a small bottle and then keep it refrigerated? Thanks. PT - Original Message - From: Norton, Steve stephen.nor...@ngc.com To: silver-list@eskimo.com Sent: Tuesday, September 14, 2010 12:09 PM Subject: CSTurpentine, Vitamin E and Healing Resend Just FYI, here is a patent discussing the healing potential of turpentine when combined with Vitamin E. - Steve N http://www.freepatentsonline.com/4784842.html Therapeutic composition for treatment of cuts, burns and abrasions -- The Silver List is a moderated forum for discussing Colloidal Silver. Rules and Instructions: http://www.silverlist.org Unsubscribe: mailto:silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com?subject=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/silver-list@eskimo.com/maillist.html Off-Topic discussions: mailto:silver-off-topic-l...@eskimo.com List Owner: Mike Devour mailto:mdev...@eskimo.com
CSOil soluble silver compounds
Does anyone know of oil soluble silver compounds that could be used as a preservative in oil based solutions and also be suitable for ingestion? Thanks, Steve N -- The Silver List is a moderated forum for discussing Colloidal Silver. Rules and Instructions: http://www.silverlist.org Unsubscribe: mailto:silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com?subject=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/silver-list@eskimo.com/maillist.html Off-Topic discussions: mailto:silver-off-topic-l...@eskimo.com List Owner: Mike Devour mailto:mdev...@eskimo.com
CSCS with H2O2 inventor found?
I came across this at the Earth Clinic site and thought it might be of interest. - Steve N http://www.earthclinic.com/Supplements/colloidal_silver_questions.html Ted from Bangkok, Thailand replies: Agyria is a common problem with using a straight batch of colloidal silver, often the skin is not really blue, it is closer to gray color. The problem occurs when a free silver ions react with the sulfur in your body to from AgS, or silver sulfide. Most colloidal silver produced are actually either a nonreactive Ag or a reactive Ag with a charge, then it reacts with the body's available sulfur to cause a blue skin, more more accurately is gray skin. This problem can be prevented, which I solved over a decade ago, which required that a couple of drops of hydrogen peroxide is added to a liter of colloidal silver. The peroxide, reacts with the FREE silver ions to form Silver Oxide. When I first add this, I get a cloudly solution, and after three days, this cloudy solution becomes a clear white transparent water. However, an unreacted Ag or Silver in a solution will show itself is a faint yellow transparent solution. So this ia an easy way to tell. If you add a drop of H2O2 into this it becomes cloudy. However, if the solution is Silver oxide, it won't become cloudy as there is no longer any free silver ions. When they are no longer free, it won't react with the body's sulfur to form silver oxide. Hence, if a hydrogen peroxide, at least, is added to the colloidal silver you buy, the silver is no longer free, and the condition of blue skin or gray skin or agyria is prevented. However, there is ANOTHER way, that DOES NOT REQUIRE you to wait for three days to fully digest the free Silver. When I make a batch of colloidal silver, using the silver wire or silver rods as an electrode using any D.C. adapter, the BEGINNING solution is distilled water with a 0.5% H2O2 concentration, which is 1/2 percent H2O2 concentration, or approximate amount such as one tablespoon (plastic spoons!) of 3% H2O2 in a 1 or 1.5 liter of colloidal silver is generally sufficient, to prevent any free metal silver form occuring. It should be noted that a silver oxide may have a better antibacterial properties and less staining problems then the use of pure silver. So in practice, the use of COLLOIDAL SILVER OXIDE, is the one I actually use and relatively problem free. For example, if a free silver has too much charges, I have noted that constipation occurs if taken too much of colloidal silver with FREE SILVER, but this doesn't happen (within reason such as NOT DRINKING liters of it!) if a COLLOIDAL silver oxide is prepared. -- The Silver List is a moderated forum for discussing Colloidal Silver. Rules and Instructions: http://www.silverlist.org Unsubscribe: mailto:silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com?subject=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/silver-list@eskimo.com/maillist.html Off-Topic discussions: mailto:silver-off-topic-l...@eskimo.com List Owner: Mike Devour mailto:mdev...@eskimo.com
Re: CSOil soluble silver compounds
That may be the best solution. Maybe ethyl alcohol or dmso as well. - Steve N -Original Message- From: cking...@nycap.rr.com [mailto:cking...@nycap.rr.com] Sent: Wednesday, September 15, 2010 3:07 PM To: silver-list@eskimo.com Subject: Re: CSOil soluble silver compounds combine the two with an emulsifier? Lecithin? Chuck When talking nonsense try not to be serious. On 9/15/2010 3:55:31 PM, Norton, Steve (stephen.nor...@ngc.com) wrote: Does anyone know of oil soluble silver compounds that could be used as a preservative in oil based solutions and also be suitable for ingestion? Thanks, Steve N -- The Silver List is a moderated forum for discussing Colloidal Silver. Rules and Instructions: http://www.silverlist.org Unsubscribe: mailto:silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com?subject=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/silver-list@eskimo.com/maillist.html Off-Topic discussions: mailto:silver-off-topic-l...@eskimo.com List Owner: Mike Devour mailto:mdev...@eskimo.com
Re: CSFreckle question - cancer salve
I offer this for those that might be limited by funds. The site herbalcom.com offers a 1oz black salve for less than $5, including shipping in the US. The salve is located at: http://www.herbalcom.com/store.php3?list=catsspec=extrsession=62e8813a ed9a05424689290ac8399464 The page also offers a limited number of essential oils at reasonable prices. I have not tried the black salve but have bought herbs from them many times and received good product. - Steve N -Original Message- From: Garnet_LDN [mailto:garnet_...@austin.rr.com] Sent: Monday, September 13, 2010 3:13 PM To: silver-list@eskimo.com Subject: EXTERNAL:Re: CSFreckle question Actually if there is any yeast / Candida the Cansema will react the same as if there were Cancer, so do not jump to conclusions if you see a reaction. This is information I got directly from the makers of Cansema by phone. It was also confirmed by another consultant. Janet Jane MacRoss wrote: Several of my friends have successfully used cansema ointment for suspicious areas - no reaction if it is nothing to worry about . Euphorbia milk from a freshly picked stem is also successful for small areas. Jane http://www.eamega.com/HighFieldHealth ~The Highest Field of Energy Healing you now!~ - Original Message - *From:* Lisa mailto:blacksa...@comcast.net *To:* silver-list@eskimo.com mailto:silver-list@eskimo.com *Sent:* Saturday, September 11, 2010 2:14 AM *Subject:* RE: CSFreckle question Thanks everybody! I also agree on the sunscreen portion - only time we use it here is when the husband enforces it (and I can't get away with not using any) OR even I'll put a bit on the kids when it's 90+ degrees out and super, strong, summer sun with no shade etc. Regardless, I plan on waiting a couple days as this morning it looked smaller and actually more of what I originally suspected (and hoped) it was - and that was more of a fingernail [dotted] scratch. It looks smaller and not as bad. My eyesight certainly isn't what it once was...so it's hard for me to really get a good look at it (plan on breaking out the reading glasses that are stashed somewhere to look closer). Lisa -- The Silver List is a moderated forum for discussing Colloidal Silver. Rules and Instructions: http://www.silverlist.org Unsubscribe: mailto:silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com?subject=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/silver-list@eskimo.com/maillist.html Off-Topic discussions: mailto:silver-off-topic-l...@eskimo.com List Owner: Mike Devour mailto:mdev...@eskimo.com
Re: EXTERNAL:Re: CSmaking own turpentine? Canada
You can get the resin. Maybe that would be usable? http://www.rain-tree.com/sangre-de-grado-resin.htm - Steve N From: polo [mailto:dah...@centurytel.net] Sent: Saturday, September 11, 2010 10:16 AM To: silver-list@eskimo.com silver-list@eskimo.com Subject: EXTERNAL:Re: CSmaking own turpentine? Canada Croton oil has been used for years and years until of late in various veterinary liniments and that is what I want it for. It is a counterirritant. I see on the net that it may have some cancer fighting applications too, but I have not really studied that aspect of it. doug - Original Message - From: Renee mailto:gaiac...@gmail.com To: silver-list@eskimo.com Sent: Saturday, September 11, 2010 10:08 AM Subject: Re: CSmaking own turpentine? Canada Croton oil? Never even heard of it. The sap of a species of croton is called sagro de drago, but that's not an oil. What is it used for, if you don't mind? And do you mean the same type of croton plant that is sold as house plants here in the US? Sorry--just being curious. Samala, Renee
Re: EXTERNAL:Re: CSmaking own turpentine? Canada
You might find it available as Dragon's Blood essential oil. For example: http://www.etsy.com/listing/27256539/true-dragons-blood-oil Dragons blood essential oil, Croton lechleri - Sangre de Drago I do not know if Croton lechleri is the same species of Croton that you are looking for. - Steve N From: polo [mailto:dah...@centurytel.net] Sent: Saturday, September 11, 2010 10:16 AM To: silver-list@eskimo.com silver-list@eskimo.com Subject: EXTERNAL:Re: CSmaking own turpentine? Canada Croton oil has been used for years and years until of late in various veterinary liniments and that is what I want it for. It is a counterirritant. I see on the net that it may have some cancer fighting applications too, but I have not really studied that aspect of it. doug - Original Message - From: Renee mailto:gaiac...@gmail.com To: silver-list@eskimo.com Sent: Saturday, September 11, 2010 10:08 AM Subject: Re: CSmaking own turpentine? Canada Croton oil? Never even heard of it. The sap of a species of croton is called sagro de drago, but that's not an oil. What is it used for, if you don't mind? And do you mean the same type of croton plant that is sold as house plants here in the US? Sorry--just being curious. Samala, Renee
Re: EXTERNAL:Re: CShelp needed
I would be cautious using a black salve containing zinc chloride near the eyes. Here is a site you might find useful. http://www.topicalinfo.org/ - Steve N - Original Message - From: Dorothy Fitzpatrick [mailto:d...@deetroy.org] Sent: Thursday, September 09, 2010 01:30 PM To: silver-list@eskimo.com silver-list@eskimo.com Subject: EXTERNAL:Re: CShelp needed I know there's black salve but I don't know about putting it near the eye. dee On 9 Sep 2010, at 17:23, Rusty wrote: I have had a sore beside my eye that wouldn't heal. I put it down to being stressed and as it dried, I would pick at it and start the process all over again. Also it would get a scab and either the pillowcase or the wash cloth would catch it. I finally got through my cataract operation and felt I better get it checked out...I was sent to a dermatologist and she walked in the room, looked at it and said you have cancer and pointed to a picture of four kinds on the wall and said but you have the good one I just about fell off the chair. I was expecting some kind of ointment to heal it up...not being told cancer so I think I may have been in some shock. I'm told I will have to go to a surgeon and have it cut out. Has any one ever deal with cancer on the skin? Can it be cleared up naturally? Rusty -- The Silver List is a moderated forum for discussing Colloidal Silver. Rules and Instructions: http://www.silverlist.org Unsubscribe: mailto:silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com?subject=subscribe Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/silver-list@eskimo.com/maillist.html Off-Topic discussions: mailto:silver-off-topic-l...@eskimo.com List Owner: Mike Devour mailto:mdev...@eskimo.com
Re: EXTERNAL:Re: CSA perplexing Problem....
You can also get Dr's Best serrapeptase at iHerb. It is usually reasonably priced. - Steve N From: jaxi [mailto:jaxi.sch...@gmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, September 08, 2010 10:30 AM To: silver-list@eskimo.com silver-list@eskimo.com Subject: EXTERNAL:Re: CSA perplexing Problem They still carry it. I found it in their online catelog. They are offering their buy 1 get 2 free (or 3 bottles for the price of 1) right now. Even so, this is an expensive supplement, but I was considering getting some to try myself. Jaxi On Wed, Sep 8, 2010 at 10:22 AM, MaryAnn Helland marmar...@bellsouth.net wrote: I bought ours at Puritan's Pride. Just checked their catalog and it's not listed there -- try their website! MA From: h.godavari h.godav...@shaw.ca To: silver-list@eskimo.com Sent: Wed, September 8, 2010 9:26:26 AM Subject: Re: CSA perplexing Problem Could you share the info regarding (good) source and the price of serrapeptase? Thank you. regards hg MaryAnn Helland wrote: Hi Marshall. It isn't for bypass. It's for aortic valve replacement and cardiac myeomectomy. His heart is enlarged and is constricting the flow of blood through it. They will go in and remove heart muscle surrounding the interior arteries. He's been on Serrapeptase for some time -- his heart cath test showed that his arteries are clean as a whistle! MA From: Marshall Dudley mdud...@king-cart.com mailto:mdud...@king-cart.com To: silver-list@eskimo.com Sent: Tue, September 7, 2010 10:28:50 AM Subject: Re: CSA perplexing Problem If it is for bypass surgery, immediately get him on some serrapeptase IMMEDIATELY. I think that if he can take it for a month, they will likely cancel the surgery. Everyone I know who has done this has been able to do that. The biggest problem is if the blockage is so great the serrapeptase is unable to get into the vessel to dissolve the cholesterol deposits quick enough for your schedule. If you can clear them out before the surgery that will save you a procedure that be deadly and tens of thousands of dollars as well. Marshall MaryAnn Helland wrote: Omigod -- what happens to patients after open-heart surgery? My husband is scheduled for it on October 5th. MA *From:* starshar stars...@comcast.net mailto:stars...@comcast.net I wonder if, especially with her age, the surgery was long enough, and the anesthesia deep enough, to have caused oxygen deprivation to her brain. Her symptoms sound very similar to what happens to patients after open-heart surgery, and that has definitly been linked to the oxygen deprivation. This may be too simplistic a guess, but sometime the simplest ideas are on target. “Extreme” nutrition should also be encouraged. Sharon *From:* craehow...@juno.com [mailto:craehow...@juno.com] *Sent:* Friday, September 03, 2010 8:56 PM *To:* silver-list@eskimo.com *Subject:* CSA perplexing Problem A energetic never sick extremely active woman of 68 years recently underwent a complete hysterectomy; within two weeks of surgery she is now depressed has no appetite and has extreme shakes she has never had any surgery's' before and it was her first time ever in a hospital. Her doctors are at a loss she keeps losing weight; her life is slowly seeping away. Has anyone heard of anything like this? I believe the surgery was prompted because of a sys or tumor on her ovaries. Appreciate any input. thanks connie
Re: EXTERNAL:Re: CSDoes the cathode need to be silver?
Some silver will plate out on the negative electrode. Using a silver negative electrode allows you to recover the plated out silver for use. - Steve N From: David AuBuchon [mailto:aubuchon.da...@gmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, September 08, 2010 08:20 PM To: silver-list@eskimo.com silver-list@eskimo.com Subject: EXTERNAL:Re: CSDoes the cathode need to be silver? Correct me if I am wrong, but absolutely NOTHING physically comes off of the negative terminal during production, right? The only thing that comes off would be electrons reacting with water molecules or incoming silver ions or a few amount of contaminant cations. I'm wondering if the ideal gen has a lot of surface area on cathode also. If so, copper would be preferable so you don't pay for all that extra silver. Hey, could that also make a gen that doubles as a colloidal copper setup? What do people use colloidal copper for anyway? ~David On Wed, Sep 8, 2010 at 6:01 PM, Dan Nave bhangcha...@gmail.com wrote: The cathode (in this case the negative terminal) can be copper if you are not polarity switching. The anode (in this case the positive terminal) must be silver. You can see I don't agree with cking, as usual... Dan On Wed, Sep 8, 2010 at 5:28 PM, David AuBuchon aubuchon.da...@gmail.com wrote: Is there any reason everyone uses silver for the cathode? I can understand if people were reversing the polarity. But when things only go one way, does it matter what the cathode is made of? Could it just be copper wire? Also, isn't the surface area of the cathode important. With the anode, more surface area reduces the density of a layer of silver ions coming off, combining with hydroxide ions. At the cathode end, isn't there a dense layer of hydroxide combining with incoming silver ions? Thanks, ~David -- The Silver List is a moderated forum for discussing Colloidal Silver. Rules and Instructions: http://www.silverlist.org Unsubscribe: mailto:silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com?subjectunsubscribe Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/silver-list@eskimo.com/maillist.html Off-Topic discussions: mailto:silver-off-topic-l...@eskimo.com List Owner: Mike Devour mailto:mdev...@eskimo.com
RE: CSNeed some ideas, please
If it was me, I'd try methylene blue and DMSO. I posted in the past on Alzheimer's and methylene blue is an OTC supplement that can be of benefit. But is an excellent memory booster in general. But it has also been shown to increase mental activity and reduce mental tiredness. Studies have shown it to be effective for memory improvement even at low doses. Here is one study: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/14724055 Methylene blue improves brain oxidative metabolism and memory retention in rats. Methylene blue (MB) increases mitochondrial oxygen consumption and restores memory retention in rats metabolically impaired by inhibition of cytochrome c oxidase. This study tested two related hypotheses using biochemical and behavioral techniques: (1) that low-level MB would enhance brain cytochrome c oxidation, as tested in vitro in brain homogenates and after in vivo administration to rats and (2) that corresponding low-dose MB would enhance spatial memory retention in normal rats, as tested 24 h after rats were trained in a baited holeboard maze for 5 days with daily MB posttraining injections. The biochemical in vitro studies showed an increased rate of brain cytochrome c oxidation with the low but not the high MB concentrations tested. The in vivo administration studies showed that the corresponding MB low dose (1 mg/kg) increased brain cytochrome c oxidation 24 h after intraperitoneal injection, but not after 1 or 2 h postinjection. In the behavioral studies, spatial memory retention in probe trials (percentage of visits to training-baited holes compared to total visits) was significantly better for MB-treated than saline control groups (66% vs. 31%). Together the findings suggest that low-dose MB enhances spatial memory retention in normal rats by increasing brain cytochrome c oxidase activity. And: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC523083/pdf/0110633.pdf Extinction Memory Improvement by the Metabolic Enhancer Methylene Blue We investigated whether postextinction administration of methylene blue (MB) could enhance retention of an extinguished conditioned response. MB is a redox compound that at low doses elevates cytochrome oxidase activity, thereby improving brain energy production. Saline or MB (4 mg/kg intraperitoneally) were administered to rats for 5 d following extinction training of tone-footshock conditioning. Postextinction freezing was lower in rats receiving MB compared with saline, suggesting that MB improved retention of the extinction memory. The MB effect was specific to tone-evoked freezing because there were no differences in pretone freezing. Control subjects similarly injected with MB showed no evidence of nonspecific effects on measures of motor activity and fearfulness. MB-treated rats exhibited both greater retention of extinction and greater overall brain metabolic activity. Rats with higher retention of extinction also showed a relative increase in cytochrome oxidase activity in prefrontal cortical regions, especially anterior infralimbic cortex, dorsal and medial frontal cortex, and lateral orbital cortex. These regional metabolic increases were also correlated to the behavioral freezing index used to assess retention of extinction. It was concluded that MB administered postextinction could enhance retention of extinction memory through an increase in brain cytochrome oxidase activity. Therefore, it is not the case that MB preferentially affects the activity of only brain regions engaged in acquisition or extinction. Which regions are more affected would seem to depend on which regions have more metabolic energy demand during the period when MB is administered. Methylene blue is available at fish and aquarium shops. It is sold as a fish fungal treatment. It is usually available in concentrations of 1% or 2.3% methylene blue. Novalek Methylene Blue and Kordon Methylene BlueCheck are two commonly found sourcess. Be sure the methylene blue treatment does not contain zinc. Dilute the methylene blue to 0.1% and have him take two to three drops in the morning and in the evening. I take it myself as a preventative and mental energy enhancer.The dosage I recommend is derived from a study done by researchers at Children's Hospital Research Center Oakland: http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/08/080818101335.htm Potential Alzheimer's, Parkinson's Cure Found In Century-Old Drug And from other sources. A company is trying to patent methylene blue as an Alzheimer's drug and their testing uses much larger doses, 65 mg three times daily: Rember for Alzheimer's: Methylene Blue's Comeback http://pipeline.corante.com/archives/2008/07/31/rember_for_alzheimers_me thylene_blues_comeback.php The other supplement I would try is DMSO. It appears to also increase oxygen metabolism in the brain. Here is a testimonial: http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:40mIoXlAmkwJ:www.kr ysalis.net/dmso.htm+%2Bhow+to+make+msm+from+dmsocd=17hl=enct=clnkgl= us
RE: CSNeed some ideas, please
I was researching NAC and ALA in regard to alleviating liver damage and ran across this. It might be worth a try and it is more mainstream than DMSO and methylene blue. - Steve N http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12603840 The antioxidants alpha-lipoic acid and N-acetylcysteine reverse memory impairment and brain oxidative stress in aged SAMP8 mice. Abstract Oxidative stress may play a crucial role in age-related neurodegenerative disorders. Here, we examined the ability of two antioxidants, alpha-lipoic acid (LA) and N-acetylcysteine (NAC), to reverse the cognitive deficits found in the SAMP8 mouse. By 12 months of age, this strain develops elevated levels of Abeta and severe deficits in learning and memory. We found that 12-month-old SAMP8 mice, in comparison with 4-month-old mice, had increased levels of protein carbonyls (an index of protein oxidation), increased TBARS (an index of lipid peroxidation) and a decrease in the weakly immobilized/strongly immobilized (W/S) ratio of the protein-specific spin label MAL-6 (an index of oxidation-induced conformational changes in synaptosomal membrane proteins). Chronic administration of either LA or NAC improved cognition of 12-month-old SAMP8 mice in both the T-maze footshock avoidance paradigm and the lever press appetitive task without inducing non-specific effects on motor activity, motivation to avoid shock, or body weight. These effects probably occurred directly within the brain, as NAC crossed the blood-brain barrier and accumulated in the brain. Furthermore, treatment of 12-month-old SAMP8 mice with LA reversed all three indexes of oxidative stress. These results support the hypothesis that oxidative stress can lead to cognitive dysfunction and provide evidence for a therapeutic role for antioxidants. -Original Message- From: Norton, Steve Sent: Thursday, September 02, 2010 10:41 AM To: 'silver-list@eskimo.com' Subject: RE: CSNeed some ideas, please If it was me, I'd try methylene blue and DMSO. I posted in the past on Alzheimer's and methylene blue is an OTC supplement that can be of benefit. But is an excellent memory booster in general. -- The Silver List is a moderated forum for discussing Colloidal Silver. Rules and Instructions: http://www.silverlist.org Unsubscribe: mailto:silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com?subject=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/silver-list@eskimo.com/maillist.html Off-Topic discussions: mailto:silver-off-topic-l...@eskimo.com List Owner: Mike Devour mailto:mdev...@eskimo.com
Re: EXTERNAL:Re: CSNeed some ideas, please
MaryAnn, Dementia is indeed terrible and your brother will find that conventional medicine can do little for him. I have posted previously on OTC supplements that can help and even partially reverse Alzheimers and dementia. With links to the studies. They include B3, curcumin and methylene blue. The problem is that his doctor cannot recommend them even if he knows of them because they are not FDA approved. They may be the treatments of tomorrow but if your brother insists on conventional medicine, tommorow will come too late for him. As dementia progresses damage to the brain becomes oermanent and cannot be completely reversed. I hope he realizes the situation and finds the wisdom and courage to go outside mainstream medicine. Best of wishes for you, your brother and your family. - Steve N PS - It will be such a shame if he doesn't. Now is when he has the best chance of recovery with little or no permanent damage. - Original Message - From: MaryAnn Helland [mailto:marmar...@bellsouth.net] Sent: Thursday, September 02, 2010 10:13 PM To: silver-list@eskimo.com silver-list@eskimo.com Subject: EXTERNAL:Re: CSNeed some ideas, please Thank you again Steve. These are impressive studies. I'm having to absorb a lot of information today. All of his test results (MRI, Cat Scan, EEG, EKG, blood test) have come back normal. He is temporarily diagnosed as *Dementia with deterioration*. He will be scheduled to see a neuropsychiatrist next week. Everything that I've read about dementia paints a very, very bleak picture. I'm having a hard time with all of this -- but I appreciate everyone's input. MA - Original Message From: Norton, Steve stephen.nor...@ngc.com I was researching NAC and ALA in regard to alleviating liver damage and ran across this. It might be worth a try and it is more mainstream than DMSO and methylene blue. - Steve N http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12603840 The antioxidants alpha-lipoic acid and N-acetylcysteine reverse memory impairment and brain oxidative stress in aged SAMP8 mice. -- The Silver List is a moderated forum for discussing Colloidal Silver. Rules and Instructions: http://www.silverlist.org Unsubscribe: mailto:silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com?subject=subscribe Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/silver-list@eskimo.com/maillist.html Off-Topic discussions: mailto:silver-off-topic-l...@eskimo.com List Owner: Mike Devour mailto:mdev...@eskimo.com
RE: EXTERNAL:Re: CSHigh-speed filter uses electrified nanostructures to purify water at low cost
For the clay pot see: http://s189535770.onlinehome.us/pottersforpeace/?page_id=9 http://www.filtersfast.com/blog/index.php/2010/07/filterpure-distributes -clay-pot-water-filters-to-developing-nations/ - Steve N -Original Message- From: needling around [mailto:ptf2...@bellsouth.net] Sent: Wednesday, September 01, 2010 8:50 AM To: silver-list@eskimo.com Subject: EXTERNAL:Re: CSHigh-speed filter uses electrified nanostructures to purify water at low cost Do you have the actual name of this pot? When I googled it I got your email below! Thanks. PT - Original Message - From: Ode Coyote odecoy...@windstream.net To: silver-list@eskimo.com Sent: Wednesday, September 01, 2010 10:23 AM Subject: Re: CSHigh-speed filter uses electrified nanostructures to purify water at low cost Then there is Harvey Reid [?] [a silverlister] That impregnated saw dust with silver [nitrate?] and mixed it with clay to fire, making activated carbon/silver ceramic pot water filters [in Africa?] Barefoot Native tech.on a shoe without even a string from WalMart. Now, to hook it up to a solar panel and pass a few microamps through it all.. ode At 07:11 PM 8/31/2010 -0500, you wrote: Some extracts from the article are below. - Steve N http://www.rdmag.com/News/2010/08/Materials-Nanotechnology-High-speed -filter-uses-electrified-nanostructures-to-purify-water-at-low-cost/htt p://www.rdmag.com/News/2010/08/Materials-Nanotechnology-High-speed-filte r-uses-electrified-nanostructures-to-purify-water-at-low-cost/ High-speed filter uses electrified nanostructures to purify water at low cost By dipping plain cotton cloth in a high-tech broth full of silver nanowires and carbon nanotubes, Stanford researchers have developed a new high-speed, low-cost filter that could easily be implemented to purify water in the developing world. Instead of physically trapping bacteria as most existing filters do, the new filter lets them flow on through with the water. But by the time the pathogens have passed through, they have also passed on, because the device kills them with an electrical field that runs through the highly conductive nano-coated cotton. Silver has long been known to have chemical properties that kill bacteria. In the days before pasteurization and refrigeration, people would sometimes drop silver dollars into milk bottles to combat bacteria, or even swallow it, Heilshorn said. Cui's group knew from previous projects that carbon nanotubes were good electrical conductors, so the researchers reasoned the two materials in concert would be effective against bacteria. This approach really takes silver out of the folk remedy realm and into a high-tech setting, where it is much more effective, Heilshorn said. Using the commonplace keeps costs down But the scientists also wanted to design the filters to be as inexpensive as possible. The amount of silver used for the nanowires was so small the cost was negligible, Cui said. Still, they needed a foundation material that was cheap, widely available and chemically and mechanically robust. So they went with ordinary woven cotton fabric. We got it at Wal-mart, Cui said. To turn their discount store cotton into a filter, they dipped it into a solution of carbon nanotubes, let it dry, then dipped it into the silver nanowire solution. They also tried mixing both nanomaterials together and doing a single dunk, which also worked. They let the cotton soak for at least a few minutes, sometimes up to 20, but that was all it took. -- The Silver List is a moderated forum for discussing Colloidal Silver. Rules and Instructions: http://www.silverlist.org Unsubscribe: mailto:silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com?subject=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/silver-list@eskimo.com/maillist.html Off-Topic discussions: mailto:silver-off-topic-l...@eskimo.com List Owner: Mike Devour mailto:mdev...@eskimo.com
CSHigh-speed filter uses electrified nanostructures to purify water at low cost
Some extracts from the article are below. - Steve N http://www.rdmag.com/News/2010/08/Materials-Nanotechnology-High-speed-fi lter-uses-electrified-nanostructures-to-purify-water-at-low-cost/ High-speed filter uses electrified nanostructures to purify water at low cost By dipping plain cotton cloth in a high-tech broth full of silver nanowires and carbon nanotubes, Stanford researchers have developed a new high-speed, low-cost filter that could easily be implemented to purify water in the developing world. Instead of physically trapping bacteria as most existing filters do, the new filter lets them flow on through with the water. But by the time the pathogens have passed through, they have also passed on, because the device kills them with an electrical field that runs through the highly conductive nano-coated cotton. Silver has long been known to have chemical properties that kill bacteria. In the days before pasteurization and refrigeration, people would sometimes drop silver dollars into milk bottles to combat bacteria, or even swallow it, Heilshorn said. Cui's group knew from previous projects that carbon nanotubes were good electrical conductors, so the researchers reasoned the two materials in concert would be effective against bacteria. This approach really takes silver out of the folk remedy realm and into a high-tech setting, where it is much more effective, Heilshorn said. Using the commonplace keeps costs down But the scientists also wanted to design the filters to be as inexpensive as possible. The amount of silver used for the nanowires was so small the cost was negligible, Cui said. Still, they needed a foundation material that was cheap, widely available and chemically and mechanically robust. So they went with ordinary woven cotton fabric. We got it at Wal-mart, Cui said. To turn their discount store cotton into a filter, they dipped it into a solution of carbon nanotubes, let it dry, then dipped it into the silver nanowire solution. They also tried mixing both nanomaterials together and doing a single dunk, which also worked. They let the cotton soak for at least a few minutes, sometimes up to 20, but that was all it took.
Re: EXTERNAL:Re: CS[List Owner]Archive listing on web site...
Just to say that I am happy with the list as is. I don't use the digest so I can't speak to any difficulties with it. I like the archives better than the yahoo groups. It would be nice to have file storage even if it only provided a temporary storage to share items that cannot be linked to. If eskimo goes down I don't mind. I know it will be only temporary. BTW, I REALLY appreciate the archives now that we have them. People using the digest might find them handy too. You can even reply to them since the reply address is always silver-l...@eskimo.com. - Steve N - Original Message - From: M. G. Devour [mailto:mdev...@eskimo.com] Sent: Saturday, August 28, 2010 07:00 AM To: silver-list@eskimo.com silver-list@eskimo.com Subject: EXTERNAL:Re: CS[List Owner]Archive listing on web site... Hi folks! First off, I hope David has been able to get into the web site and see the change... It's working as far as I know, David. The problem you had looks like it may have just been a transient. Carol and others, I REALLY do understand the appeal of Yahoo or Google groups as a platform for a forum like this, and I will continue to consider them going forward, as a fallback if nothing else. My most urgent reason for never going to one of those options before now was a desire to never place us at the mercy of someone else's opinion of whether our group deserved to exist, and, in the extreme case, to not be one of the countless thousands of groups that would instantly disappear if Somebody made a phone call and said, shut it all down... So, call me paranoid if you'd like, but that resolve is the main reason we've continued to stumble along in this less-than-ideal state, trapped between my desires for security and control, and my inability thus far to implement one of the many superior options that are possible. Hope springs eternal that as my health and mental agility continue to improve, I will succeed in finding or building us a new home that will be more to everyone's liking, mine included. Meanwhile, I pray you will forgive me for my admitted shortcomings (to accompany my acknowledged strengths, just so y'all don't have to say it! grin) and continue to be patient with the clunky interface. You all keep amazing me with your knowledge, generosity, cooperation, and the timeliness of your suggestions! I can't count how often I've seen the answer swing by in passing, just as I'd begun to research a particular question! Amazing! smile If anybody has a trustworthy, high-end web developer in their pocket, willing to work for free or very near to it, y'all let me know, okay? Peace, Mike D. silver-list curator and antiquarian... [Mike Devour, Citizen, Patriot, Libertarian] [mdev...@eskimo.com] [Speaking only for myself... ] -- The Silver List is a moderated forum for discussing Colloidal Silver. Rules and Instructions: http://www.silverlist.org Unsubscribe: mailto:silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com?subject=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/silver-list@eskimo.com/maillist.html Off-Topic discussions: mailto:silver-off-topic-l...@eskimo.com List Owner: Mike Devour mailto:mdev...@eskimo.com
Re:CSMy first post - selenium
At 4 oz a day, you are at the max daily amount I would take for 10 ppm CS. Personally, at that amount I would use the selenomethionine form of selenium. Do you know that the selenium you are taking is not selenomethionine? Taking the selenium at a different time helps in that it prevents the selenium from complexing with the silver in the digestive tract. If they did complex in the digestive tract, the selenium/silver complex would just pass on out in the feces. But the amount of CS you are taking (at 10 ppm) is around the maximum amount the liver can excrete in a day. (I know about the Altman study that indicates that most of the silver in EIS is excreted by the kidney. But the info is misleading if you do not really understand EIS in vivo and how different forms of silver are excreted by the body. But it is somewhat complex and I do not want to get into that here.) So the chances of selenium and silver complexing is significant and I would use selenomethionine to avoid it. Just FYI, I personally only supplement with selenomethionine. Many forms of selenium complexes with silver but selenomethionine is the only form I have study data on that indicates it does not complex with silver. Below I provide some info on selenium and silver. - Steve N Hepatobiliary transport and organ distribution of silver in the rat as influenced by selenite. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/7292506 Bile from rats injected with 110mAgNO3 (1 micromol/kg) were fractionated on Sephadex G-15 revealing binding of silver to one high molecular weight substance and one low molecular weight substance eluting corresponding to the void volume and glutathione (GSH) respectively. Fractionation of AgNO3 and GSH mixed in vitro gave rise to a polynuclear complex and a 1 : 1 complex of Ag+-GSH which both eluted corresponding to silver in bile. Depletion of GSH in the liver by diethylmaleate (3.9 mmol/kg) caused a parallel decrease in the biliary excretion of both silver and reduced GSH. These findings support the hypothesis that silver is excreted into bile by a GSH-dependent mechanism most likely using GSH as a carrier molecule. Selenite (1 micromol/kg) inhibited the biliary excretion of silver while AgNO3 (1 mumol/kg) did not influence the excretion of selenium into bile. Pretreatment with selenite (1 micromol/kg) also caused a retention of silver (AgNO3, 1 micromol/kg) in the blood, kidney and brain. The liver content of silver was decreased and the organ to plasma ratio of silver was unchanged for erythrocytes, but decreased for the brain, kidney and liver, respectively. The effects caused by selenite are attributed to the formation of Ag2Se complexes which are nearly water insoluble and probably unavailable for biliary excretion. Selenium metabolites (GSSeSG, GSSeH) which are excreted into bile are probably not available for complexing with Ag+. [I will try and simplify the text above: 1. Silver (in solution) is excreted in the bile by using glutathione (GSH) as a carrier molecule. 2. Selenite, a form of selenium, inhibits the excretion of silver while silver does not influence the excretion of selenium into bile. 3. Selenite causes the retention of silver in the blood, kidney and brain. 4. The effects above are caused by silver-selenium complexes that are nearly water insoluble and probably unavailable for biliary excretion. 5. Ergo, selenium reduces the excretion of silver and causes retention in the blood and tissues.] Toxicological Profile for Silver http://www.atsdr.cdc.gov/toxprofiles/tp146-c2.pdf The deposition of silver in the kidney was increased under conditions of high selenium exposure. This may be important in the development of argyria in people exposed to silver who ingest foods that contain large amounts of selenium. It should be noted that selenium plays a dual role in the toxicity of silver. On the one hand, it increases the silver deposition rate in body tissues, which suggests that humans exposed to both high selenium and high silver may be more likely to develop argyria. On the other hand, a Selenium deficient diet combined with high silver intake can cause liver necrosis. As I mentioned, the selenomethionine form of selenium does not cause an accumulation of silver in the tissues and still provides the necessary support of the liver. That is documented in the following study: Agricultural and Biological Chemistry, Vol.47 Bioavailability of Selenite, Selenomethionine and Selenocystine in Rats with Silver Loading To view study select the full text abstract at: http://www.journalarchive.jst.go.jp/english/jnlabstract_en.php?cdjournal =bbb1961cdvol=47noissue=4startpage=807 Nevertheless, selenomethionine was the most effective for synthesis of glutathione perioxidase in the rat liver with silver. This is presumably because selenomethionine would be hard to combine with accumulating silver in the liver unless metabolized. Silver in solution is excreted in the bile by using
Re:CSMy first post - selenium
Brazil nuts contain mostly selenomethionine. See:
http://pubs.acs.org/doi/abs/10.1021/jf0256541
Characterization of Selenium Species in Brazil Nuts by HPLC−ICP-MS and ES-MS
Extracts are evaluated against available standards for the commercially
obtainable seleno-amino acids, selenomethionine (SeMet), selenoethionine
(SeEt), and selenocystine (SeCys); selenomethionine was demonstrated to be the
most abundant of these seleno-amino acids. Further characterization of
unidentified selenium-containing peaks is attempted by the employment of
several procedures, including electrospray-mass spectrometry (ES-MS). A peptide
structure was identified; however, this was considered a tentative proposal due
to the large background produced by the extremely complicated brazil nut
matrix.
Plus, this would be an issue only if you take large amounts of CS regularly.
- Steve N
-Original Message-
From: Sandy [mailto:hollis302...@yahoo.com]
Sent: Friday, August 27, 2010 8:29 AM
To: silver-list@eskimo.com
Subject: EXTERNAL:Re: Re:CSMy first post - selenium
I eat about 5 Brazil nuts a day to get my selenium...wonder where that leaves
me in the scheme of things?
Best regards,
Sandy
--- On Fri, 8/27/10, needling around ptf2...@bellsouth.net wrote:
From: needling around ptf2...@bellsouth.net
Subject: Re: Re:CSMy first post - selenium
To: silver-list@eskimo.com
Date: Friday, August 27, 2010, 9:34 AM
Thanks, Steve. I just checked
and it is selenomethionine. I take 200 mcg at
dinnertime. So I will keep my level around 4 oz/day
unless I get sick and need to increase it short term.
I appreciate the assistance.
PT
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RE: CSanti-microbial???
You flatter me; I am not a chemist. I have not tried this. Your question would be better answered by Marshall, Ode or Mike. - Steve N From: needling around [mailto:ptf2...@bellsouth.net] Sent: Friday, August 27, 2010 9:09 AM To: silver-list@eskimo.com Subject: EXTERNAL:CSanti-microbial??? Hi, This is a question for Steve and some of the other chemists on the list... I have read about and been advised to keep my toothbrushes in an antimicrobial between use. The general advise is something like Listerine but I don't really like that so I have used peroxide for a long time. I recently switched to CS. Evidently toothbrushes are *seething* (mild hyperbole) with microbes that just keep reinfecting the mouth and the mouth is one place for focal infections that keep the immune system challenged. My question is, If I mix CS and 3% H2O2 will that increase the germ fighting capability of the liquid or create a whole new chemical that will do something totally different and perhaps not desirable? Thanks for any guidance you can give. PT PS: another good way to sanitize the toothbrush is to put it in the dishwasher every few days when you run it up.
RE: CSLL) My Thanks to all, Molly has passed.
This story has stuck with me ever since I read it. The link to it is below. Years back, I had three white Akitas. The eldest, Keoki, died very suddenly. He let out a piercing cry and was gone despite hours on my part of trying to revive him. Keoki and I were almost like a married couple and when a few days later, I looked at the youngest one, Runeka, and asked if she missed her father, she looked at me as though she knew something I was missing. Then, all of a sudden, Tilok moved to the part of the bed where Keoki had always slept and Runeka moved to where Tilok had been. I felt that they each promoted themselves a rank and this hierarchy became annoying to me until I looked once again and saw Keoki's aura and realized that he, too, had moved up a rank. After that, he was very happy because he knew I knew where he was. He used to jump through the open window of the car and sit in the front seat, another promotion, and he no longer needed my permission to do all the things he always wanted to do. Then, when visiting Hawaii, I decided to drop in on my old Kahuna friend, Morrnah Simeona. Morrnah asked immediately, Which one of your dogs died? I asked why. She said, There is a white dog sitting on the sidewalk who followed you here. I asked, Is he earthbound? She closed her eyes in the way I had always remembered her doing when important utterances were soon to follow. I was riveted on her and then her eyes opened and her lips began to move. She said, He said to tell you that it is his pleasure to be with you until the end of Time. Maybe Molly isn't really gone, only changed. - Steve N http://cancersalves.com/discus_cs/messages/210/210.html From: zzekel...@aol.com [mailto:zzekel...@aol.com] Sent: Wednesday, August 25, 2010 4:14 PM To: silver-list@eskimo.com Subject: CSLL) My Thanks to all, Molly has passed. Last night Molly was awake all night as were my son Dan I. She was crying we knew she was in pain. We gave her Tylenol codeine which did not help..This morning she could not get up. We knew it was time to say goodbye...The traveling Vet came at 11:00 to day Molly gently quietly crossed over. The vet said that with the kind of cancer Molly had it was often to late by the time it was causing a problem which was Molly's problem. The ex ray showed it had reached her lungs the vet said after that it was only a matter of one or two weeks before it did total damage spread to many more areas I want to thank you all for your concern caring Her brother Zeke , sister Abby, My sons Dan John I were all with her when she left..The tears only stop for a little while all those wonderful memories can start the flow.. What an empty space there is in our lives now... Thanks again, Lois
RE: EXTERNAL:Re: CShydrogen peroxide - Ode help!!
This one? http://www.mail-archive.com/silver-list@eskimo.com/msg126954.html -Original Message- From: Alvin Rose [mailto:ajros...@nf.sympatico.ca] Sent: Thursday, August 26, 2010 11:33 AM To: silver-list@eskimo.com Subject: EXTERNAL:Re: CShydrogen peroxide - Ode help!! Hi Ode you posted some information on Sodium Chlorite a while ago..Can you post it again.. I lost my copy.. -- The Silver List is a moderated forum for discussing Colloidal Silver. Rules and Instructions: http://www.silverlist.org Unsubscribe: mailto:silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com?subject=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/silver-list@eskimo.com/maillist.html Off-Topic discussions: mailto:silver-off-topic-l...@eskimo.com List Owner: Mike Devour mailto:mdev...@eskimo.com
CSRe: silver-digest Digest V2010 #708
I did drink some water after taking the turpentine to wash it down. It was probably less than a half tsp of sugar. You just put the turpentine in a spoon and add sugar till the turpentine is covered and a little loose white sugar shows. It is very easy to take and I think it actually tastes good. If you put EIS/CS in a jewelry cleaner and turn it on, it will increase clumping of the silver and increase particle size. - Steve N From: Melly Bag [mailto:tita_...@yahoo.com] Sent: Thursday, August 26, 2010 9:15 AM To: silver-list@eskimo.com Subject: EXTERNAL:CSRe: silver-digest Digest V2010 #708 Steve, Thanks for your tip on turp. Did you drink water immediately after ingesting the turp and sugar? Wasn't it hard to swallow with sugar quite thick? Will putting EIS/CS in the ionic jewelry cleaner (like the lipo C) right after it finishes brewing make the particles smaller and unclump them? Thanks. Melly --- On Thu, 8/26/10, silver-digest-requ...@eskimo.com silver-digest-requ...@eskimo.com wrote: From: silver-digest-requ...@eskimo.com silver-digest-requ...@eskimo.com Subject: silver-digest Digest V2010 #708 To: silver-dig...@eskimo.com Date: Thursday, August 26, 2010, 7:14 AM
Re:CSMy first post
Welcome Dave, I just read your second post as well, but would like to make a couple of comments to this post. 32 oz of 12 ppm CS daily is an awful lot of silver. Far more than your body can excrete in a day. If you use that much regularly the excess silver has to go somewhere. And that somewhere is your tissues. While I understand the severity of your condition having Lyme, etc., I would strongly recommend a lower dose. I would also strongly recommend against the use of silver nitrate. There are alternatives that are more effective with less risk of argyria. Silver nitrate is notorious for causing argyria. Vitamin C, ascorbic acid, can reduce it to metallic silver in the tissues where it then remains and contributes to argyria. A much better alternative is silver citrate, which is easy to make. However, you will still need to limit it's usage to reasonable quantities. If you are supplementing selenium while using large amounts of CS, and you should be, use the selenomethionine form of selenium. It will not complex with silver and cause the deposition of silver in the tissues. I first started using CS to get me away from a continuous use of antibiotics. The CS got me off antibiotics but I was using more CS than I liked. I found that cycling CS with iodine worked well for me and now I use fairly low amounts of either. I hope you find something that works for you. Regards, Steve N From: David AuBuchon [mailto:aubuchon.da...@gmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, August 25, 2010 8:02 PM To: silver-list@eskimo.com Subject: EXTERNAL:CSMy first post Hi All, I'm new to this list. I've been following every CS group on yahoo, but they all seem pretty dead! This one looks like the goldmine I've been looking for! I'm here to learn about all sorts of innumerable details of CS. I am not in the biz, but have not ruled out the possibility that some day I might be. Hence I want to learn, learn, learn. I have Lyme, bartonella, babesia, mycoplasma, candida, and I don't know what else. A regular swamp. I believe Lyme is minimal now and candida is essentially a non issue now. Bartonella I think is the main enemy by far right now. I have been sick since age 16, and just kind of lived with it until age 22. I couldn't live with it anymore. It was do or die. In what I now think was truly a race for my life, I finally got diagnosed with Lyme at age 23. Somehow I finished grad school. I am now 25, and too sick to work. I have a B.S. and M.S. in industrial engineering from a top university. I've done all sorts of crazy therapies. The ones that have helped the most for my particular case: 1. Coconut oil absolutely ransacked candida where as nystatin and diflucan had no apparent effect at all. 2. Doug coil rife machine herxed and improved on Lyme frequencies and eventually stopped being effective. Presumably because the other infections are the bad guys left. 3. Homemade ionic silver. Sometimes as much as 32 oz a day. Somewhat regularly for a few months. Then it stopped being effective orally. If I don't take it for 4 or 5 days, I feel some bugs edging up. I take CS, then it knocks that feeling out for 4 or 5 days. I think I might slowly head backwards if I did not keep doing this with the CS. In general, I tend not to respond to treatments. I am the guy who wishes he could get something to make him herx, but just can't. The latest development in my treatment: IV silver nitrate I have had two treatments so far. First one have me a herx that was almost literally identical to flu. Fever, chills, weakness, etc. I have never in my life had a herx that felt like the immune system was actually doing its job! The second treatment was lower dose cuz I was scared after the first treatment. No flu symptoms but more usual herx symptoms (fatigue, depression, brain fog). Round three is this friday! ~David p.s. to reply to messages, do I just click reply to it when I get messages in my gmail inbox? I subscribed to the digest. -- The Silver List is a moderated forum for discussing Colloidal Silver. Rules and Instructions: http://www.silverlist.org Unsubscribe: mailto:silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com?subject=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/silver-list@eskimo.com/maillist.html Off-Topic discussions: mailto:silver-off-topic-l...@eskimo.com List Owner: Mike Devour mailto:mdev...@eskimo.com
CSRe: silver-digest Digest V2010 #705
I used turpentine for a case of UTI. It was very quick and effective. I took 1 drop of pure turpentine with a half tsp of white sugar. There were no observable effects other than the elimination of the infection. - Steve N From: Melly Bag [mailto:tita_...@yahoo.com] Sent: Wednesday, August 25, 2010 10:10 AM To: silver-list@eskimo.com Subject: EXTERNAL:CSRe: silver-digest Digest V2010 #705 To those of us that use CS/H202 and other anti baceterial/fungal as nasal spray/throat/mouth wash, we have to bear in mind that our nasal membranes/mouth also contain friendly bacteria, so let us not out of habit use it too often. We need those friendly bacteria to be present. Yesterday, early morning i began symptoms of UTI. I immediatley took an ounce of EIS/CS. The pain began to increase. I also increased my EIS/CS but added DMSO every 30 minutes as well as water intake and took one painkiller. My hubby came home to take me to the doc (an hour away) and on the say to the clinic, i kept urinating (on thick paper towel diapers) with pain. I emptied my bladder before doc came to the room, and i all of a sudden felt fine, this is at noon time. Frequency of urinating eased as well as the pain. He prescribed antibiotics. For fear that it would come back, i still took the antibiotic (3 hours later) but dropped the painkiller and EIS/CS. Due to my dropping the EIS/CS, and no medication taken til 3pm, the frequency came back as well as light pain. I hesitated if i should take the antibiotic coz i knew that CS/DMSO took care of the problem. I write this to show that EIS/CS with DMSO if taken immediately and spaced often, can eliminate the UTI. Melly
CSusing electricity for healing - Part 1
This is in 2 parts due to its size. On another list, the subject using electricity for healing came up. Since we had discussed using electricity for pain relief earlier this month I am providing some info found regarding using electricity for healing There appears to be three approaches: high voltage (150V), medium voltage/currents or low voltage/ultralow currents. I suspect that the end use might determine which approach is best for a particular application. There is great similarity between using electricity for healing, pain reduction or muscle stimulation. The 3 applications could easily share common electronics. Below are some NCBI abstracts that I think are informative - Steve N GENERAL INFO: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2568073 Accelerated healing of skin ulcers by electrical stimulation and the intracellular physiological mechanisms involved. Evidence is reviewed (8 studies involving 215 clinical patients with ischemic skin ulcers and 7 animal tissue or tissue culture studies) that electrical stimulation of fibroblast cells accelerates the intracellular biosynthesis necessary to form new granulation tissue in a healing wound, and that both a direct local tissue effect and a circulatory improvement occur. A model is presented in which transmembrane currents open voltage-controlled calcium channels in fibroblast cells, causing ATP resynthesis, activation of protein kinase mechanisms to synthesize new cellular protein, and the DNA replication necessary for mitotic cell division. Stimulation efficacy appears to be determined by a number of basic electrical parameters, and judicious waveform control is desirable. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20434602 Electrical stimulation therapy increases rate of healing of pressure ulcers in community-dwelling people with spinal cord injury. OBJECTIVE: To investigate whether electric stimulation therapy (EST) administered as part of a community-based, interdisciplinary wound care program accelerates healing of pressure ulcers in people with spinal cord injury (SCI). DESIGN: Single-blind, parallel-group, randomized, controlled, clinical trial. SETTING: Community-based home care setting, Ontario, Canada. PARTICIPANTS: Adults (N=34; mean age +/- SD, 51+/-14y) with SCI and stage II to IV pressure ulcers. INTERVENTIONS: Subjects were stratified based on wound severity and duration and randomly assigned to receive either a customized, community-based standard wound care (SWC) program that included pressure management or the wound care program plus high-voltage pulsed current applied to the wound bed (EST+SWC). MAIN OUTCOME MEASURES: Wound healing measured by reduction in wound size and improvement in wound appearance at 3 months of treatment with EST+SWC or SWC. RESULTS: The percentage decrease in wound surface area (WSA) at the end of the intervention period was significantly greater in the EST+SWC group (mean +/- SD, 70+/-25%) than in the SWC group (36+/-61%; P=.048). The proportion of stage III, IV, or X pressure ulcers improving by at least 50% WSA was significantly greater in the EST+SWC group than in the SWC group (P=.02). Wound appearance assessed using the photographic wound assessment tool was improved in wounds treated with EST+SWC but not SWC alone. CONCLUSIONS: These results demonstrate that EST can stimulate healing of pressure ulcers of people with SCI. EST can be incorporated successfully into an interdisciplinary wound care program in the community I include this one because it shows that random pulses work in addition to periodic pulses: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20559186 The effect of stochastic electrical noise on hard-to-heal wounds. OBJECTIVE: To evaluate the effect of electrical stochastic noise stimulation on hard-to-heal wounds. METHOD: This open-label observational case series aimed to evaluate the effect of the Bioelectrical Signal Therapy (BST) device on the treatment of hard-to-heal (recalcitrant) wounds. The study group comprised nine patients (three males and six females), with a total of 11 ulcers that had not healed (ulcer duration range: 18 months to 20 years) despite being treated with other standard methods. Ulcer aetiologies were: EPUAP grade IV pressure ulcers (n=6) and grade III pressure ulcer (n=1), vasculitic ulcer (n=1), post-actinic lesion (n=1), ischaemic (n=1) and post-surgical lesion (n=1). The median patient age was 75. Treatment was delivered for 30 minutes, three times a day for 60 days. RESULTS: Four patients (five ulcers) closed completely. Ulcers in three patients reduced in size with signs of epithelialisation. No improvement was observed in one patient (who had paraplegia). One patient stopped treatment due to skin irritation at electrode sites. No other adverse effects were observed and all of the treated patients defined the treatment as painless. CONCLUSION: Stochastic white noise applied to hard-to-heal ulcers for 60 consecutive days reduced the wound surface area by
CSusing electricity for healing - Part 2
MEDIUM VOLTAGE: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1881954 Chronic dermal ulcer healing enhanced with monophasic pulsed electrical stimulation. The purposes of this randomized, double-blind, multicenter study were to compare healing of chronic dermal ulcers treated with pulsed electrical stimulation with healing of similar wounds treated with sham electrical stimulation and to evaluate patient tolerance to the therapeutic protocol. Forty-seven patients, aged 29 to 91 years, with 50 stage II, III, and IV ulcers were randomly assigned to either a treatment group (n = 26) or a control (sham treatment) group (n = 24). Treated wounds received 30 minutes of pulsed cathodal electrical stimulation twice daily at a pulse frequency of 128 pulses per second (pps) and a peak amplitude of 29.2 mA if the wound contained necrotic tissue or any drainage that was not serosanguinous. A saline-moistened nontreatment electrode was applied 30.5 cm (12 in) cephalad from the wound. This protocol was continued for 3 days after the wound was debrided or exhibited serosanguinous drainage. Thereafter, the polarity of the treatment electrode on the wound was changed every 3 days until the wound progressed to a stage II classification. The pulse frequency was then reduced to 64 pps, and the treatment electrode polarity was changed daily until the wound was healed. Patients in the control group were treated with the same protocol, except they received sham electrical stimulation. After 4 weeks, wounds in the treatment and control groups were 44% and 67% of their initial size, respectively. The healing rates per week for the treatment and control groups were 14% and 8.25%, respectively. The results of this study indicate that pulsed electrical stimulation has a beneficial effect on healing stage II, III, and IV chronic dermal ulcers. LOW VOLTAGE: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20046232 Ultra-low microcurrent in the management of diabetes mellitus, hypertension and chronic wounds: report of twelve cases and discussion of mechanism of action. Oxidative stress plays a major role in the pathogenesis of both types of diabetes mellitus and cardiovascular diseases including hypertension. The low levels of antioxidants accompanied by raised levels of markers of free radical damage play a major role in delaying wound healing. Ultra-low microcurrent presumably has an antioxidant effect, and it was shown to accelerate wound healing. The purpose of the study is to investigate the efficacy of ultra-low microcurrent delivered by the Electro Pressure Regeneration Therapy (EPRT) device (EPRT Technologies-USA, Simi Valley, CA) in the management of diabetes, hypertension and chronic wounds. The EPRT device is an electrical device that sends a pulsating stream of electrons in a relatively low concentration throughout the body. The device is noninvasive and delivers electrical currents that mimic the endogenous electric energy of the human body. It is a rechargeable battery-operated device that delivers a direct current (maximum of 3 milliAmperes) of one polarity for 11.5 minutes, which then switched to the opposite polarity for another 11.5 minutes. The resulting cycle time is approximately 23min or 0.000732 Hz and delivers a square wave bipolar current with a voltage ranging from 5V up to a maximum of 40 V. The device produces a current range of 3 mA down to 100 nA. Twelve patients with long standing diabetes, hypertension and unhealed wounds were treated with EPRT. The patients were treated approximately for 3.5 h/day/5 days a week. Assessment of ulcer was based on scale used by National Pressure Ulcer Advisory Panel Consensus Development Conference. Patients were followed-up with daily measurement of blood pressure and blood glucose level, and their requirement for medications was recorded. Treatment continued from 2-4 months according to their response. Results showed that diabetes mellitus and hypertension were well controlled after using this device, and their wounds were markedly healed (30-100%). The patients either reduced their medication or completely stopped after the course of treatment. No side effects were reported. The mechanism of action was discussed. INFO ON WAVEFORMS (muscle stimulation): http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/3261222 Effects of waveform on comfort during neuromuscular electrical stimulation. Electrical stimulation is a commonly used clinical tool, but subject and patient comfort is still a major problem retarding its widespread application. Stimulus waveform in combination with pulse duration can play a major part in subject comfort. An asymmetric balanced biphasic square waveform was perceived as comfortable and was clinically effective in stimulating wrist flexor and extensor muscles. Subjects preferred the square waveforms over a paired spike monophasic waveform. In the larger quadriceps muscle group, a symmetric biphasic square wave was perceived as more comfortable than either a monophasic paired
CSRE: Turpentine For Viruses?
I have only seen data that it is effective against the HSV-1 virus. - Steve N From: Peter Converse [mailto:pconve...@primus.ca] Sent: Wednesday, August 25, 2010 12:22 PM To: Norton, Steve; silver-list@eskimo.com Subject: EXTERNAL:Turpentine For Viruses? Hi Steve and all, Anyone know if turpentine would help with chronic viruses such as EBV, CMV, XMRV etc? Peter - Original Message - From: Norton, Steve mailto:stephen.nor...@ngc.com To: silver-list@eskimo.com Sent: Wednesday, August 25, 2010 1:18 PM Subject: CSRe: silver-digest Digest V2010 #705 I used turpentine for a case of UTI. It was very quick and effective. I took 1 drop of pure turpentine with a half tsp of white sugar. There were no observable effects other than the elimination of the infection. - Steve N
Re: CSFarfetched Idea
Do you by any chance have a link? _ Steve N -Original Message- From: needling around [mailto:ptf2...@bellsouth.net] Sent: Tuesday, August 24, 2010 6:11 AM To: silver-list@eskimo.com Subject: EXTERNAL:Re: CSFarfetched Idea Hi Steve, I read a link some months ago written by a gentleman with argyria with pictures. It detailed his journey from being blue to being flesh toned with directions people could follow. PT -- The Silver List is a moderated forum for discussing Colloidal Silver. Rules and Instructions: http://www.silverlist.org Unsubscribe: mailto:silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com?subject=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/silver-list@eskimo.com/maillist.html Off-Topic discussions: mailto:silver-off-topic-l...@eskimo.com List Owner: Mike Devour mailto:mdev...@eskimo.com
CSSilver Nanoparticle Toxicity
I am sure that you have heard that the nanoparticle versions of some commonly use substances have been shown to have a significantly increased toxicity. Part of the problem is that the nanoparticles can be absorbed through the skin and accumulate in the tissues of the body. Zinc oxide is a case in point. Several links are provided below as an example but are not discussed. It is not my intent to create a fear of zinc oxide. In fact, it has been found that coating zinc oxide nanoparticles with dimethicone reduces or eliminates zinc oxide nanoparticle absorption and so most topical lotions or creams containing zinc oxide nanoparticles include dimethicone in the composition for this purpose. However, silver nanoparticles have been identified in the studies as particularly harmful because of their high reactivity. Concerned about the possible accumulation of silver particles in the brain, I had mostly converted to using purely ionic silver. But based on the study I have previously posted on, High Chemical Reactivity of Silver Nanoparticles Toward Hydrochloric Acid, I don't think that is necessary since silver nanoparticles do not survive the stomach's acid as particles. However it may be prudent to use CS that is primarily ionic for nasal sprays and nebulizing since any particles in the solution are not converted by stomach acid. I think that the study, High Chemical Reactivity of Silver Nanoparticles Toward Hydrochloric Acid, is of ground breaking importance. It completely changes the heretofore understanding of how colloidal silver particles act in vivo. - Steve N http://www.merid.org/ndn/more.php?articleID=1905search=%2Fndn%2Farchive .php%3FdoSearch%3D1%26food_and_agriculture%255B%255D%3DFoodscorePrecent =100 Toxicity of Nanoparticles: Zinc Oxide on the Brain http://www.azonano.com/news.asp?newsID=18214 Zinc Oxide Nanoparticles Used in Suncreens are Toxic to Colon Studies that discuss silver nanoparticle toxicity: http://www.hindawi.com/journals/jt/2009/754810.html On the Toxicity of Therapeutically Used Nanoparticles: An Overview http://toxsci.oxfordjournals.org/cgi/content/full/88/2/412 In Vitro Cytotoxicity of Nanoparticles in Mammalian Germline Stem Cells -- The Silver List is a moderated forum for discussing Colloidal Silver. Rules and Instructions: http://www.silverlist.org Unsubscribe: mailto:silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com?subject=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/silver-list@eskimo.com/maillist.html Off-Topic discussions: mailto:silver-off-topic-l...@eskimo.com List Owner: Mike Devour mailto:mdev...@eskimo.com
Re: CSSteve Norton and copper, silver, citrate solution
It should work ok. - Steve N -Original Message- From: AnnieBSmythe [mailto:anniebsmy...@gmail.com] Sent: Tuesday, August 24, 2010 12:59 PM To: silver-list@eskimo.com Subject: Re: EXTERNAL:Re: CSSteve Norton and copper, silver, citrate solution If I have some previously prepared ionic copper, can I just add the citric acid like with the silver? Or will that not work the same? Annie -- The Silver List is a moderated forum for discussing Colloidal Silver. Rules and Instructions: http://www.silverlist.org Unsubscribe: mailto:silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com?subject=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/silver-list@eskimo.com/maillist.html Off-Topic discussions: mailto:silver-off-topic-l...@eskimo.com List Owner: Mike Devour mailto:mdev...@eskimo.com
RE: CSpederson's silver
I tried to post this last Saturday but the servers wouldn't let me.
I know my previous post was brief. But working on a Blackberry is a pain for
me. And since I can't specify plaintext with the Blackberry, the message
quickly gets too large.
The brevity was not to try and cut off discussion. I knew my comment on silver
oxide (SO) could be controversial and I hoped for feedback from others.
I had wondered about SO and getting through the stomach and so I looked for
information on the web. As you know, a balanced equation for a reaction doesn't
tell you everything. For example, does the reaction require heat, a certain
concentration or a long reaction time?
I was confident regarding SO that is in solution but not as sure about SO bound
to a silver particle and if the bound SO would be in HCl long enough to be
converted. From what I have read, transition times through the stomach are
typically 1 to 3 hours with liquids at the low end. That seemed like enough
time to me.
There was a reason I included reduction of the SO to metallic silver as one of
the possible reactions. I saw somewhere on the net that could happen. But I did
not bookmark the site and I have not been able to found it again. It is
entirely possible that I read it wrong, esp. since I was on the BB.
To further cloud the issue is particle size. I have found a multitude of
claimed particle sizes for Silver Solutions. The patent claims 50% of particles
are less than 15 nm. A safety analysis claims 2.34 nm particle size. And the
Guardian Silver Sol vs Colloidal Silver page claims 0.05 to 0.1 nm particle
size. It would be nice if they would stick to one story. Those particle sizes
would VERY roughly equate to the following quantities of silver atoms in a
silver particle:
* 1 nm, approx 30 atoms
* 2.34, nm approx 400 atoms
* 15 nm, approx 100,000 atoms
The reason I mention the no. of atoms is the following report:
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science?_ob=ArticleURL_udi=B6WHR-4KH3YG7-4_user=10_coverDate=11%2F15%2F2006_rdoc=1_fmt=high_orig=search_sort=d_docanchor=view=c_searchStrId=1439291768_rerunOrigin=google_acct=C50221_version=1_urlVersion=0_userid=10md5=e304987661638df02433931cbf54d7f4
High chemical reactivity of silver nanoparticles toward hydrochloric acid
High chemical reactivity of Ag nanoparticles was observed in the reaction with
hydrochloric acid: Ag (nanoparticles) +HCI - AgCl + H-2; the reaction product
silver chloride was characterized by X-ray powder diffraction to give a direct
evidence for the reaction which has been proved impossible for the bulk Ag.
I don't have access to the full report but even 15 nm is well within the
definition of a nanoparticle ( or = to 100 nm). But is 100,000 atoms too large
a particle to convert? This would indicate that stomach acid could potentially
convert ALL silver in EIS and nanoparticle colloidal silvers, such as
Mesosilver, to AgCl. It would also seem that HCl would not then have a problem
converting all the silver and silver oxide in Silver Sol (Silver Solutions,
ASAP, etc.) to AgCl as well.
I am not a chemist, so does anyone care to speculate?
Thanks,
Steve N
- Original Message -
From: Norton, Steve [mailto:stephen.nor...@ngc.com]
Sent: Saturday, August 21, 2010 11:04 AM
To: silver-list@eskimo.com silver-list@eskimo.com
Subject: Re:CSpederson's silver
I am on a Blackberry right now so my internet capabilities are limited. A
couple references are below.
- Steve N
http://www.quantumbalancing.com/real_facts_on_colloidal_silver.htm
The ionic portion is a combination of silver hydroxide and silver oxide. While
in solution they continually convert from one to the other and back again. Each
has a solubility of about 13 ppm, so any EIS which is less than about 26 ppm
and a pH of 7 will be totally dissolved. Upon contact with the HCl
(hydrochloric acid) of the stomach both of these compounds will immediately
form silver chloride
http://www.answerbag.com/q_view/771121
2) A slurry of Ag2O is readily attacked by acids:Ag2O + 2 HX → 2 AgX + H2O
where HX = HF, HCl, HBr, or HI,
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CSFarfetched Idea
Resend attempt. Here is what is probably a farfetched idea. It is based on the study that showed that silver nanoparticles are highly reactive with hydrochloric acid (link below). It turns out that HCl is compatible with DMSO. There are quite a number of articles on the net relative to DMSO and HCl. For example: http://article.pubs.nrc-cnrc.gc.ca/ppv/RPViewDoc?issn=1480-3291volume=5 6issue=14startPage=1881 Ion association in solutions of HCl in DMSO-water mixtures: ultrasonic absorption studies Would it be possible that an HCl/DMSO solution could be used topically to convert metallic silver in the skin to silver chloride? Then the silver chloride could go into solution and be eliminated from the body? It would have to be a somewhat dilute HCl, say a pH of 5 - 6? Metallic silver is usually found in tissues in argyria cases. - Steve N http://www.sciencedirect.com/science?_ob=ArticleURL_udi=B6WHR-4KH3YG7-4 _user=10_coverDate=11%2F15%2F2006_rdoc=1_fmt=high_orig=search_sort =d_docanchor=view=c_searchStrId=1439291768_rerunOrigin=google_acct= C50221_version=1_urlVersion=0_userid=10md5=e304987661638df024339 31cbf54d7f4 High chemical reactivity of silver nanoparticles toward hydrochloric acid High chemical reactivity of Ag nanoparticles was observed in the reaction with hydrochloric acid: Ag (nanoparticles) +HCI - AgCl + H-2; the reaction product silver chloride was characterized by X-ray powder diffraction to give a direct evidence for the reaction which has been proved impossible for the bulk Ag. -- The Silver List is a moderated forum for discussing Colloidal Silver. Rules and Instructions: http://www.silverlist.org Unsubscribe: mailto:silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com?subject=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/silver-list@eskimo.com/maillist.html Off-Topic discussions: mailto:silver-off-topic-l...@eskimo.com List Owner: Mike Devour mailto:mdev...@eskimo.com
Re: EXTERNAL:Re:CSpederson's silver
I am on a Blackberry right now so my internet capabilities are limited. A couple references are below. - Steve N http://www.quantumbalancing.com/real_facts_on_colloidal_silver.htm The ionic portion is a combination of silver hydroxide and silver oxide. While in solution they continually convert from one to the other and back again. Each has a solubility of about 13 ppm, so any EIS which is less than about 26 ppm and a pH of 7 will be totally dissolved. Upon contact with the HCl (hydrochloric acid) of the stomach both of these compounds will immediately form silver chloride http://www.answerbag.com/q_view/771121 2) A slurry of Ag2O is readily attacked by acids:Ag2O + 2 HX → 2 AgX + H2O where HX = HF, HCl, HBr, or HI, - Original Message - From: Ode Coyote [mailto:odecoy...@windstream.net] Sent: Saturday, August 21, 2010 04:35 AM To: silver-list@eskimo.com silver-list@eskimo.com Subject: EXTERNAL:Re:CSpederson's silver How do we know that? I don't recall silver oxides and tummies even having been discussed over all these years. Ode At 06:21 AM 8/20/2010 -0500, you wrote: One last point. Stomach acid will convert the silver oxide coating on the silver particles to either metallic silver or silver chloride. So Guardian Silver pre-oxidizing their silver particles provides no benefit over any other colloidal silver when taken internally. - Steve N -Original Message- From: Norton, Steve Sent: Thursday, August 19, 2010 10:16 AM To: silver-list@eskimo.com Subject: Re: CSpederson's silver Guardian Silver consists of primarily silver particles. All silver particles work by releasing silver ions and it is the silver ions that are anti-microbial. Silver ions are not released from pure silver. In vivo, silver particles form silver oxide on its surface and it is the silver oxide that releases silver ions and provide the anti-microbial activity. Guardian Silver claims to pre-oxidize their silver particles by adding hydrogen peroxide to their CS when making it. That is the sum total of the uniqueness of their CS. There may be some benefit to pre-oxidizing the silver particles vs waiting for it to happen in vivo. Guardian Silver consists of primarily silver particles. All silver particles work by releasing silver ions and it is the silver ions that are anti-microbial. Silver ions are not released from pure silver. In vivo, silver particles form silver oxide on its surface and it is the silver oxide that releases silver ions and provide the anti-microbial activity. Guardian Silver claims to pre-oxidize their silver particles by adding hydrogen peroxide to their CS when making it. That is the sum total of the uniqueness of their CS. There may be some benefit to pre-oxidizing the silver particles vs waiting for it to happen in vivo. -- The Silver List is a moderated forum for discussing Colloidal Silver. Rules and Instructions: http://www.silverlist.org Unsubscribe: mailto:silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com?subjectsubscribe Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/silver-list@eskimo.com/maillist.html Off-Topic discussions: mailto:silver-off-topic-l...@eskimo.com List Owner: Mike Devour mailto:mdev...@eskimo.com
Re:CSpederson's silver
One last point. Stomach acid will convert the silver oxide coating on the silver particles to either metallic silver or silver chloride. So Guardian Silver pre-oxidizing their silver particles provides no benefit over any other colloidal silver when taken internally. - Steve N -Original Message- From: Norton, Steve Sent: Thursday, August 19, 2010 10:16 AM To: silver-list@eskimo.com Subject: Re: CSpederson's silver Guardian Silver consists of primarily silver particles. All silver particles work by releasing silver ions and it is the silver ions that are anti-microbial. Silver ions are not released from pure silver. In vivo, silver particles form silver oxide on its surface and it is the silver oxide that releases silver ions and provide the anti-microbial activity. Guardian Silver claims to pre-oxidize their silver particles by adding hydrogen peroxide to their CS when making it. That is the sum total of the uniqueness of their CS. There may be some benefit to pre-oxidizing the silver particles vs waiting for it to happen in vivo. Guardian Silver consists of primarily silver particles. All silver particles work by releasing silver ions and it is the silver ions that are anti-microbial. Silver ions are not released from pure silver. In vivo, silver particles form silver oxide on its surface and it is the silver oxide that releases silver ions and provide the anti-microbial activity. Guardian Silver claims to pre-oxidize their silver particles by adding hydrogen peroxide to their CS when making it. That is the sum total of the uniqueness of their CS. There may be some benefit to pre-oxidizing the silver particles vs waiting for it to happen in vivo. -- The Silver List is a moderated forum for discussing Colloidal Silver. Rules and Instructions: http://www.silverlist.org Unsubscribe: mailto:silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com?subject=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/silver-list@eskimo.com/maillist.html Off-Topic discussions: mailto:silver-off-topic-l...@eskimo.com List Owner: Mike Devour mailto:mdev...@eskimo.com
Re: EXTERNAL:Re: CSpederson's silver
Thanks Marshall. I wasn't going to argue with the patent. But since silver oxide on the particles should show as brown and Silver Sol (ASAP, etc) are clear it did not add up. See for the color of silver oxide http://www.public.asu.edu/~jpbirk/qual/qualanal/silver.html - Steve N - Original Message - From: Marshall Dudley [mailto:mdud...@king-cart.com] Sent: Friday, August 20, 2010 10:51 AM To: silver-list@eskimo.com silver-list@eskimo.com Subject: EXTERNAL:Re: CSpederson's silver Adding hydrogen peroxide to CS is something we have been doing for a long time. It does increase the effectiveness, but not by preoxidizing. They got the chemistry all wrong. You cannot preoxidize the silver on the particles and expect it to stay there. It has a solubility of around 13 ppm (26 when you consider it changes back and forth between silver hydroxide), and will thus immediately dissolve off, making plain old ionic silver. But H2O2 is not just an oxidizer, it is a redux agent, and not only converts the particles to silver oxide, but the silver oxide/hydroxide back to two atom colloidal particles. That is why it increases effectiveness, it breaks the colloidal particles down to the smallest possible units. We have known this for years here. Marshall Norton, Steve wrote: One last point. Stomach acid will convert the silver oxide coating on the silver particles to either metallic silver or silver chloride. So Guardian Silver pre-oxidizing their silver particles provides no benefit over any other colloidal silver when taken internally. - Steve N -Original Message- From: Norton, Steve Sent: Thursday, August 19, 2010 10:16 AM To: silver-list@eskimo.com Subject: Re: CSpederson's silver Guardian Silver consists of primarily silver particles. All silver particles work by releasing silver ions and it is the silver ions that are anti-microbial. Silver ions are not released from pure silver. In vivo, silver particles form silver oxide on its surface and it is the silver oxide that releases silver ions and provide the anti-microbial activity. Guardian Silver claims to pre-oxidize their silver particles by adding hydrogen peroxide to their CS when making it. That is the sum total of the uniqueness of their CS. There may be some benefit to pre-oxidizing the silver particles vs waiting for it to happen in vivo. Guardian Silver consists of primarily silver particles. All silver particles work by releasing silver ions and it is the silver ions that are anti-microbial. Silver ions are not released from pure silver. In vivo, silver particles form silver oxide on its surface and it is the silver oxide that releases silver ions and provide the anti-microbial activity. Guardian Silver claims to pre-oxidize their silver particles by adding hydrogen peroxide to their CS when making it. That is the sum total of the uniqueness of their CS. There may be some benefit to pre-oxidizing the silver particles vs waiting for it to happen in vivo. -- The Silver List is a moderated forum for discussing Colloidal Silver. Rules and Instructions: http://www.silverlist.org Unsubscribe: mailto:silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com?subjectsubscribe Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/silver-list@eskimo.com/maillist.html Off-Topic discussions: mailto:silver-off-topic-l...@eskimo.com List Owner: Mike Devour mailto:mdev...@eskimo.com
Re: CSpederson's silver
Leo, Damn, I hate to get involved in commenting on commercially sold colloidal silvers. It is a frustrating no-win proposition. Let me say that I have no horse in this race. Personally I use several types of colloidal silver that I make myself. I sell no colloidal silver or related products. This will sound harsh, but I don't really care if you take silver or what silver you use. Ode and some others are more patient and giving than I am in their help because there are many sellers of colloidal silver and there many misrepresentations of colloidal silver. Especially by people selling colloidal silver trying to differentiate THEIR CS from everyone else's. But I want to support Ode's comments. There is so much misinformation on the Silver Sol site that it is hard to decide where to start. Plus it is mixed in with good information that muddles everything. Let's start with the following from the Guardian site: Guardian Silver works by four primary mechanisms: * The unique oxide coating of the elemental silver nano particle ruptures the outer membrane of bacteria by removing an electron from the cell wall, killing the bacteria on contact. * The silver nano particle emits a specific magnetic resonance-890-910 terahertz-which is selectively destructive to pathogens. * Supercharged silver sol particles magnetically interfere with the DNA of viruses, rendering them inactive and unable to replicate. * The outer chemical structure of Guardian Silver effectively disrupts the communication of intercellular activity. Guardian Silver consists of primarily silver particles. All silver particles work by releasing silver ions and it is the silver ions that are anti-microbial. Silver ions are not released from pure silver. In vivo, silver particles form silver oxide on its surface and it is the silver oxide that releases silver ions and provide the anti-microbial activity. Guardian Silver claims to pre-oxidize their silver particles by adding hydrogen peroxide to their CS when making it. That is the sum total of the uniqueness of their CS. There may be some benefit to pre-oxidizing the silver particles vs waiting for it to happen in vivo. Is it worth the cost? You will have to decide that. So the first and last bullets above apply to ALL colloidal silvers, including ionic silvers. For the second bullet, replace the word magnetic with magic in the text and you have a more accurate and understandable representation. For the third bullet, delete the word magnetically and you have a statement that applies to all colloidal silvers, including ionic silvers. I scanned through the technical data they provide and only have problems with the papers they have generated. I don't have time to correct all the misrepresentations but I would never do business with a company that so misrepresents their product as they do. You ask for hard science to rebut Silver Sol's claims but you start by accepting their crap data as fact until proven otherwise. As I said, I don't care what you use. Silver Sol is probably as good as any other particulate colloidal silver. - Steve N -Original Message- From: Ode Coyote [mailto:odecoy...@windstream.net] Sent: Thursday, August 19, 2010 4:25 AM To: silver-list@eskimo.com Subject: EXTERNAL:Re: CSpederson's silver To unravel that mess would take a tome And it might work just fine. Better than dirt cheap easy to make Ionic Silver and colloidal byproducts ? Probably not. Even if there is a difference, is it worth the price difference and an expensive dependency on a salesman that minces the facts into complete nonsense? The most telling is the chart that lumps all colloidal silver forms in with ionic and claims that neither has a charge. It just ain't so. One flat out lie throws the whole speal into suspect land. Consider an intriguing comparison of this new silver sol vs. colloidal silver9. While one colloidal silver product was found to inhibit the growth of E. coli (bacteria that causes food poisoning, diarrhea, etc.) at concentrations of 1500 ppm, silver sol killed E. coli at a concentration of only 5 ppm. This makes the silver sol several hundred times more effective than comparable colloid solutions. ## Ionic silver does it at as little as 3 parts per billion. [BYU study] faster at 3 PPM..so just what is this One Silver Product that's so ineffective? ..a freekin chunk of SPOON ?? colloid solution NOT. It's either a colloidal suspension [by definition of colloid] or an ionic solution, or a mixture of both...two DIFFERENT things in the same container. Besides...That's NOT a comparable colloid solution [ignoring the mixing of terms]...unless.. it would have done the same job at 3PPM and 1500 was just overkill. Is inhibit the same result as kill ? E Coli has a short live span..if you inhibit growth, ie replication... it dies of old age in minutes with no babies. Dead colony is dead individuals. Dead is dead. I could go on for days about mis-directive use
CSLink to the CS/antibiotics compatibility test
Here is a link to the CS/antibiotics compatibility test. It was provided at the Guardian Silver site. - Steve N http://www.ias.ac.in/currsci/oct102006/926.pdf Bactericidal activity of combinations of Silver-Water Dispersion(tm) with 19 antibiotics against seven microbial strains Antibiotic discs used in this investigation are standardized discs by Pathoteq Biological Laboratories, India: Amoxicillin (AX, 30 mcg), Carbenicillin (CN, 100 mcg), Cefoperazone (CP, 75 mcg), Ceftizidime (FG, 30 mcg), Ciprofloxacin (RC, 5 mcg), Clindamycin (CD, 2 mcg), Doxycycline (DX, 30 mcg), Erythromycin (ER, 15 mcg), Gentamycin (GM, 10 mcg), Kanamycin (KA, 30 mcg), Nalidixic Acid (NA, 30 mcg), Oxacillin (OC, 1 mcg), Penicillin-G (PG, 10 units), Rifampin (RF, 5 mcg), Streptomycin (SM, 10 mcg), Tetracycline(TE, 5 mcg) Tobramycin (TB, 10 mcg) and Trimethoprim (TP, 5 mcg). The organisms used are: E. coli (MDR) strain from stool sample; Ps. aeruginosa (multiple-drug resistant) strain from sputum. These two strains were obtained from P.D. Hinduja Hospital (Mumbai); Methicillin-resistant S. aureus was obtained from Lokmanya Tilak Muncipal Hospital. Shigella flexneri, Salmonella typhi, S. aureus 6538 P, Bacillus subtilis and Candida albicans are in-house laboratory strains. Thus the number of tests completed was 96 out of the possible 133 between 19 antibiotics and seven organisms. The test showed that five combinations were synergistic, 89 dditive and two antagonistic. -- The Silver List is a moderated forum for discussing Colloidal Silver. Rules and Instructions: http://www.silverlist.org Unsubscribe: mailto:silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com?subject=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/silver-list@eskimo.com/maillist.html Off-Topic discussions: mailto:silver-off-topic-l...@eskimo.com List Owner: Mike Devour mailto:mdev...@eskimo.com
RE: CSpederson's silver
Leo, What I should have said is that people can put out misinformation on colloidal silver faster than anyone can counter it and in quantities that no one has the time to counter. Guardian Silver is one example. They probably have a good product but possibly their greed has caused them to create misinformation in order to persuade people to buy their product. We would much prefer teaching people about CS so that they can evaluate CS suppliers themselves and make good decisions. The only silvers that you will hear warnings against are perhaps silver nitrate and mild silver protein (MSP) colloidal silvers because of their risk of argyria and poor performance. Regards, Steve N -Original Message- From: Norton, Steve Sent: Thursday, August 19, 2010 10:16 AM To: silver-list@eskimo.com Subject: Re: CSpederson's silver Leo, Damn, I hate to get involved in commenting on commercially sold colloidal silvers. It is a frustrating no-win proposition. Let me say that I have no horse in this race. Personally I use several types of colloidal silver that I make myself. I sell no colloidal silver or related products. This will sound harsh, but I don't really care if you take silver or what silver you use. Ode and some others are more patient and giving than I am in their help because there are many sellers of colloidal silver and there many misrepresentations of colloidal silver. Especially by people selling colloidal silver trying to differentiate THEIR CS from everyone else's. But I want to support Ode's comments. There is so much misinformation on the Silver Sol site that it is hard to decide where to start. Plus it is mixed in with good information that muddles everything. Let's start with the following from the Guardian site: Guardian Silver works by four primary mechanisms: * The unique oxide coating of the elemental silver nano particle ruptures the outer membrane of bacteria by removing an electron from the cell wall, killing the bacteria on contact. * The silver nano particle emits a specific magnetic resonance-890-910 terahertz-which is selectively destructive to pathogens. * Supercharged silver sol particles magnetically interfere with the DNA of viruses, rendering them inactive and unable to replicate. * The outer chemical structure of Guardian Silver effectively disrupts the communication of intercellular activity. Guardian Silver consists of primarily silver particles. All silver particles work by releasing silver ions and it is the silver ions that are anti-microbial. Silver ions are not released from pure silver. In vivo, silver particles form silver oxide on its surface and it is the silver oxide that releases silver ions and provide the anti-microbial activity. Guardian Silver claims to pre-oxidize their silver particles by adding hydrogen peroxide to their CS when making it. That is the sum total of the uniqueness of their CS. There may be some benefit to pre-oxidizing the silver particles vs waiting for it to happen in vivo. Is it worth the cost? You will have to decide that. So the first and last bullets above apply to ALL colloidal silvers, including ionic silvers. For the second bullet, replace the word magnetic with magic in the text and you have a more accurate and understandable representation. For the third bullet, delete the word magnetically and you have a statement that applies to all colloidal silvers, including ionic silvers. I scanned through the technical data they provide and only have problems with the papers they have generated. I don't have time to correct all the misrepresentations but I would never do business with a company that so misrepresents their product as they do. You ask for hard science to rebut Silver Sol's claims but you start by accepting their crap data as fact until proven otherwise. As I said, I don't care what you use. Silver Sol is probably as good as any other particulate colloidal silver. - Steve N -- The Silver List is a moderated forum for discussing Colloidal Silver. Rules and Instructions: http://www.silverlist.org Unsubscribe: mailto:silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com?subject=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/silver-list@eskimo.com/maillist.html Off-Topic discussions: mailto:silver-off-topic-l...@eskimo.com List Owner: Mike Devour mailto:mdev...@eskimo.com
CSUrea for dry skin and odorless DMSO
I happened to be searching the archives regarding urea. I came across a method to eliminate the odor caused by DMSO. It only works for topical use of DMSO. Here are the links: http://www.mail-archive.com/silver-list@eskimo.com/msg76194.html http://www.mail-archive.com/silver-list@eskimo.com/msg76201.html Regarding dry skin, I have had great success with the elimination of dry scaly skin using urea. This in itself is no great shakes as it has been know that urea is great for this application for some time. This description from a patent pretty much describes the condition I had: Dry skin is a common condition associated with a plurality of disorders and frequently requires therapeutic intervention. Dermatologists often call dry skin in later life xerosis or ichthyosis. Xerosis is a term used to describe abnormal skin dryness. Ichthyosis is a term used to described a group of cutaneous disorders characterized by increased or aberrant keratinisation, and resulting in non-inflammatory scaling of the skin. There are at least 20 varieties of ichthyosis, including inherited and acquired forms. Further details regarding xerosis and ichthyosis can be found inAtlas of Clinical Dermatologyby Anthony du Vivier, 3rd edition (July 17,2002) Publisher: Churchill Livingstone, which is incorporated herein by reference. Dry skin often leads to dermatitis, a condition in which the skin becomes red and itchy, and which is typically characterized by a crazy-paving appearance on the lower legs (eczema craquele) or round patches scattered over the trunk and limbs (a dry form of nummular dermatitis). In some cases of dermatitis, such as, for example, winter itch, 7th age itch, or senile pruritus, the dry skin is just itchy, without much of a rash. Dry skin results from, or is aggravated by, low humidity, sunlight, abrasive clothing and/or a repeated use of soaps, detergents or other lipid solvents, and is further strongly influenced by factors such as age, race, genetics, climate and lifestyle. One problem with urea is that once it is mixed with water, the urea slowly converts to ammonia and you get an ammonia smell. It is also known that lactic acid combined with urea is more effective than urea alone for difficult skin cases. So I added 20 percent urea and 10 percent ethyl lactate to the magnesium solution that I use to spray on my skin. Ethyl lactate converts to ethyl alcohol and lactic acid in the skin. It is also used to treat skin conditions on animals. I just figured I would see how it all works and see what odor problems develop with the urea. It completely cleared up my skin condition and as yet no urea odor problems. Note that I say no urea odor problems. Ethyl lactate does have an odor but it quickly dissipates after application. So I did a search and found that ethyl lactate does prevent the ammonia odor when used with urea. Sometimes you just stumble across the right things. My source for the ethyl lactate was: Klean Strip Green Natural Multi-Purpose Solvent. The MSDS for the product gives a purity of greater than 99%. See: http://www.wmbarr.com/ProductFiles/KSG%20Natural%20MultiPurpose%20Solven t.pdf - Steve N -- The Silver List is a moderated forum for discussing Colloidal Silver. Rules and Instructions: http://www.silverlist.org Unsubscribe: mailto:silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com?subject=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/silver-list@eskimo.com/maillist.html Off-Topic discussions: mailto:silver-off-topic-l...@eskimo.com List Owner: Mike Devour mailto:mdev...@eskimo.com
CSRE: Urea for dry skin RE: Urea for dry skin - and hair
Oh, I have also added the urea/ethyl lactate to my shampoo in the same proportions. It has greatly helped with a scalp condition and there is no need for a conditioner after its use. - Steve N -Original Message- From: Norton, Steve Sent: Friday, August 13, 2010 9:37 AM To: 'silver-list@eskimo.com' Subject: Urea for dry skin and odorless DMSO I happened to be searching the archives regarding urea. I came across a method to eliminate the odor caused by DMSO. It only works for topical use of DMSO. Here are the links: http://www.mail-archive.com/silver-list@eskimo.com/msg76194.html http://www.mail-archive.com/silver-list@eskimo.com/msg76201.html Regarding dry skin, I have had great success with the elimination of dry scaly skin using urea. This in itself is no great shakes as it has been know that urea is great for this application for some time. This description from a patent pretty much describes the condition I had: Dry skin is a common condition associated with a plurality of disorders and frequently requires therapeutic intervention. Dermatologists often call dry skin in later life xerosis or ichthyosis. Xerosis is a term used to describe abnormal skin dryness. Ichthyosis is a term used to described a group of cutaneous disorders characterized by increased or aberrant keratinisation, and resulting in non-inflammatory scaling of the skin. There are at least 20 varieties of ichthyosis, including inherited and acquired forms. Further details regarding xerosis and ichthyosis can be found inAtlas of Clinical Dermatologyby Anthony du Vivier, 3rd edition (July 17,2002) Publisher: Churchill Livingstone, which is incorporated herein by reference. Dry skin often leads to dermatitis, a condition in which the skin becomes red and itchy, and which is typically characterized by a crazy-paving appearance on the lower legs (eczema craquele) or round patches scattered over the trunk and limbs (a dry form of nummular dermatitis). In some cases of dermatitis, such as, for example, winter itch, 7th age itch, or senile pruritus, the dry skin is just itchy, without much of a rash. Dry skin results from, or is aggravated by, low humidity, sunlight, abrasive clothing and/or a repeated use of soaps, detergents or other lipid solvents, and is further strongly influenced by factors such as age, race, genetics, climate and lifestyle. One problem with urea is that once it is mixed with water, the urea slowly converts to ammonia and you get an ammonia smell. It is also known that lactic acid combined with urea is more effective than urea alone for difficult skin cases. So I added 20 percent urea and 10 percent ethyl lactate to the magnesium solution that I use to spray on my skin. Ethyl lactate converts to ethyl alcohol and lactic acid in the skin. It is also used to treat skin conditions on animals. I just figured I would see how it all works and see what odor problems develop with the urea. It completely cleared up my skin condition and as yet no urea odor problems. Note that I say no urea odor problems. Ethyl lactate does have an odor but it quickly dissipates after application. So I did a search and found that ethyl lactate does prevent the ammonia odor when used with urea. Sometimes you just stumble across the right things. My source for the ethyl lactate was: Klean Strip Green Natural Multi-Purpose Solvent. The MSDS for the product gives a purity of greater than 99%. See: http://www.wmbarr.com/ProductFiles/KSG%20Natural%20MultiPurpose%20Solven t.pdf - Steve N -- The Silver List is a moderated forum for discussing Colloidal Silver. Rules and Instructions: http://www.silverlist.org Unsubscribe: mailto:silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com?subject=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/silver-list@eskimo.com/maillist.html Off-Topic discussions: mailto:silver-off-topic-l...@eskimo.com List Owner: Mike Devour mailto:mdev...@eskimo.com
Re: CSRE: Urea for dry skin RE: Urea for dry skin - and hair
I used feed/fertilizer grade urea. I live in a farming area and was able to get 50 lbs of urea for $19. I would not hesitate to use fertilizer grade urea from a nursery. You should be able to get 15 lbs for about $16. I would think that the urea you propose will work too. My urea dissolves very easily in water so even urea in chunks should be ok. I have not yet tried the DMSO/urea. I just ran across the posts this morning. Perhaps some member from 2004 remembers more about the technique? - Steve N From: Gail Rice [mailto:gail.r...@gmail.com] Sent: Friday, August 13, 2010 11:55 AM To: silver-list@eskimo.com Subject: EXTERNAL:Re: CSRE: Urea for dry skin RE: Urea for dry skin - and hair Steve Thanks for this interesting post. I love the idea of making my own remedies for my skin. I live in the US and I'm not sure how to source urea. Do you think the stuff they sell for purifying gold is ok to use? http://tinyurl.com/prill http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItemitem=280502502969rvr_id=1 24177288541crlp=1_263602_263622UA=M*S%3FGUID=e086f76a1260a02653759325 fff7b7e0itemid=280502502969ff4=263602_263622#ht_1318wt_936 Would that be something that I could safely grind up and use? If so, is it clean enough to use in EIS/DMSO formulas? When I use DMSO I avoid other people because I worry that it will make some sensitive person feel ill from the smell. I'd love to be able to make a remedy that still allows me to relax and enjoy being with other people. Gail Rice
CSRE: Urea for dry skin RE: Urea for dry skin - and hair
The mixture does not need to be very accurate. The 20% urea and 10% ethyl lactate are at the high end of what you can get in commercial products. The commercial products are expensive but it is inexpensive to make yourself. I just used volume measurements. For example 7 cups water/2 cups urea granules/1 cup ethyl lactate. The urea I got at a farm supply but you can also find it as a fertilizer at nurseries. The ethyl lactate I got at a hardware store as Klean Strip Green Natural Multi-Purpose Solvent. You do not need to add magnesium. I just used an existing solution of magnesium to add the stuff to as a convenience. Although the urea could possibly increase the absorption of the magnesium. Urea and lactic acid will pull moisture into the skin and work to dissolve dead skin. After applying the mixture you may want to use a moisturizing cream to prevent the moisture from evaporating from the skin if you have a bad case. My dry skin is from aging and not hereditary. Although I guess old age could be considered as hereditary. :) - Steve N From: mborg...@att.net [mailto:mborg...@att.net] Sent: Friday, August 13, 2010 11:07 AM To: silver-list@eskimo.com Subject: EXTERNAL:Re: CSRE: Urea for dry skin RE: Urea for dry skin - and hair I also have extremely dry skin,inherited docs told me, did you have the same? When I was 12 the docs put tar all over me, trouble was they did not know how to get it off, I must say it was extremely painful, they used gasoline to take the tar off. Thank you for the extremely useful information, in your opinion, what measurments should I use? Mary
RE: EXTERNAL:Re: CSRE: Urea for dry skin RE: Urea for dry skin - and hair
There is a significant difference between a skin cream and humectants. A humectant carries moisture into the skin cells and can continue to pull moisture from the air into the skin. Creams cover the skin to prevent moisture loss but don't really add moisture to the skin. See: Creams That Contain Lactic Acid or Salicylic Acid Urea http://www.livestrong.com/article/173251-creams-that-contain-lactic-acid-or-salicylic-acid-urea/ - Steve N From: needling around [mailto:ptf2...@bellsouth.net] Sent: Friday, August 13, 2010 1:07 PM To: silver-list@eskimo.com Subject: EXTERNAL:Re: CSRE: Urea for dry skin RE: Urea for dry skin - and hair Have you considered using coconut oil and making an emulsion. There are lots of books on making your own cosmetics which is really what this is. You might even find something online. PT - Original Message - From: Norton, Steve To: silver-list@eskimo.com Sent: Friday, August 13, 2010 4:01 PM Subject: CSRE: Urea for dry skin RE: Urea for dry skin - and hair The mixture does not need to be very accurate. The 20% urea and 10% ethyl lactate are at the high end of what you can get in commercial products. The commercial products are expensive but it is inexpensive to make yourself. I just used volume measurements. For example 7 cups water/2 cups urea granules/1 cup ethyl lactate. The urea I got at a farm supply but you can also find it as a fertilizer at nurseries. The ethyl lactate I got at a hardware store as Klean Strip Green Natural Multi-Purpose Solvent. You do not need to add magnesium. I just used an existing solution of magnesium to add the stuff to as a convenience. Although the urea could possibly increase the absorption of the magnesium. Urea and lactic acid will pull moisture into the skin and work to dissolve dead skin. After applying the mixture you may want to use a moisturizing cream to prevent the moisture from evaporating from the skin if you have a bad case. My dry skin is from aging and not hereditary. Although I guess old age could be considered as hereditary. :) - Steve N From: mborg...@att.net [mailto:mborg...@att.net] Sent: Friday, August 13, 2010 11:07 AM To: silver-list@eskimo.com Subject: EXTERNAL:Re: CSRE: Urea for dry skin RE: Urea for dry skin - and hair I also have extremely dry skin,inherited docs told me, did you have the same? When I was 12 the docs put tar all over me, trouble was they did not know how to get it off, I must say it was extremely painful, they used gasoline to take the tar off. Thank you for the extremely useful information, in your opinion, what measurments should I use? Mary -- The Silver List is a moderated forum for discussing Colloidal Silver. Rules and Instructions: http://www.silverlist.org Unsubscribe: mailto:silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com?subject=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/silver-list@eskimo.com/maillist.html Off-Topic discussions: mailto:silver-off-topic-l...@eskimo.com List Owner: Mike Devour mailto:mdev...@eskimo.com
CSRE: Urea for dry skin RE: Urea for dry skin - and hair
Agreed. I think it is a good idea. - Steve N -Original Message- From: needling around [mailto:ptf2...@bellsouth.net] Sent: Friday, August 13, 2010 1:31 PM To: silver-list@eskimo.com Subject: Re: EXTERNAL:Re: CSRE: Urea for dry skin RE: Urea for dry skin - and hair That is true, however, after pulling moisture into the skin an emollient such as coconut oil or lanolin can be used to prevent its loss. PT -- The Silver List is a moderated forum for discussing Colloidal Silver. Rules and Instructions: http://www.silverlist.org Unsubscribe: mailto:silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com?subject=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/silver-list@eskimo.com/maillist.html Off-Topic discussions: mailto:silver-off-topic-l...@eskimo.com List Owner: Mike Devour mailto:mdev...@eskimo.com
CSCS Steve Norton Copper_Silver Citrate Solution
Use pH test strips. There are a variety of them available online. - Steve N -Original Message- From: dawie.niem...@transnet.net [mailto:dawie.niem...@transnet.net] Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2010 2:27 AM To: silver-list@eskimo.com Subject: EXTERNAL:CSCS Steve Norton Copper_Silver Citrate Solution Hi Steve Sorry for the late question regarding the copper/silver solution. I would like to know how you measure the ph balance of the solution with the buffering process. Kind Regards Dawie Niemann Gauteng South Africa -- The Silver List is a moderated forum for discussing Colloidal Silver. Rules and Instructions: http://www.silverlist.org Unsubscribe: mailto:silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com?subject=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/silver-list@eskimo.com/maillist.html Off-Topic discussions: mailto:silver-off-topic-l...@eskimo.com List Owner: Mike Devour mailto:mdev...@eskimo.com
Re: CSosteoporosis
Too much misinformation. It even claims to have 1 angstrom silver particles. A single silver atom is 2.9 angstroms. - Steve N -Original Message- From: needling around [mailto:ptf2...@bellsouth.net] Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2010 6:26 AM To: silver-list@eskimo.com Subject: EXTERNAL:Re: CSosteoporosis If you are interested in fine particle minerals you might also be interested in reading http://www.angstrom-mineral.com/angstrom-minerals/angstrom-silver.html I don't know if what she says is true but it is interesting. PT -- The Silver List is a moderated forum for discussing Colloidal Silver. Rules and Instructions: http://www.silverlist.org Unsubscribe: mailto:silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com?subject=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/silver-list@eskimo.com/maillist.html Off-Topic discussions: mailto:silver-off-topic-l...@eskimo.com List Owner: Mike Devour mailto:mdev...@eskimo.com
RE: CScopper, silver, citrate solution
I should have mentioned that the data below is for a 1 liter solution. - Steve N On 8/9/2010 11:14 PM, Norton, Steve wrote: pj, I might suggest a simplified approach. Since much of the test information in the patent was using the copper-silver, citrate solution at a 20 percent solution, just make the solution at the 20 percent concentration, which would be 10 ppm silver and 80 ppm copper. To do that, you could make the ionic silver in your CS generator. Assuming an ionic content of 85 percent, just make the CS at 12 ppm. Then add the citric acid to the CS, add the potassium carbonate and use the 9 volt batteries along with copper electrodes to make the copper citrate. As far as using 9 volt batteries, you will need two 9 volt batteries in series. You can make copper citrate with 9.8 volts. A 9 volt battery quickly drops to 8 volts in use and so two will give you about 16 volts. You will need to use alkaline 9 volt batteries if you make the full strength solution. Carbon-zinc 9 volt batteries just barely have enough capacity for the 20 percent solution. A carbon-zinc battery's capacity is roughly 35 mAH in this application. An alkaline battery's capacity is 300 to 500 mAH, depending on the brand used. (See link below) The capacities assume you use generation currents of 100 mA or less. Here are the approximate mAH needed for the full strength and 20 percent solutions. Full strength: To make 50 ppm silver in citric acid - 12.5 mAH To make 400 ppm copper in citric acid - 162 mAH Total: 165 mAH 20 percent: To make 10 ppm silver in citric acid - none (use CS generator) To make 80 ppm copper in citric acid - 32 mAH Total: 32 mAH As you can see, carbon-zinc 9 volt batteries only have enough capacity for the 20 percent solution. Alkaline 9 volt batteries can easily make the full strength solution. - Steve N http://www.powerstream.com/9V-Alkaline-tests.htm Discharge tests of 9 Volt transistor radio style Batteries -- The Silver List is a moderated forum for discussing Colloidal Silver. Rules and Instructions: http://www.silverlist.org Unsubscribe: mailto:silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com?subject=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/silver-list@eskimo.com/maillist.html Off-Topic discussions: mailto:silver-off-topic-l...@eskimo.com List Owner: Mike Devour mailto:mdev...@eskimo.com
RE: CScopper, silver, citrate solution
pj, I might suggest a simplified approach. Since much of the test information in the patent was using the copper-silver, citrate solution at a 20 percent solution, just make the solution at the 20 percent concentration, which would be 10 ppm silver and 80 ppm copper. To do that, you could make the ionic silver in your CS generator. Assuming an ionic content of 85 percent, just make the CS at 12 ppm. Then add the citric acid to the CS, add the potassium carbonate and use the 9 volt batteries along with copper electrodes to make the copper citrate. As far as using 9 volt batteries, you will need two 9 volt batteries in series. You can make copper citrate with 9.8 volts. A 9 volt battery quickly drops to 8 volts in use and so two will give you about 16 volts. You will need to use alkaline 9 volt batteries if you make the full strength solution. Carbon-zinc 9 volt batteries just barely have enough capacity for the 20 percent solution. A carbon-zinc battery's capacity is roughly 35 mAH in this application. An alkaline battery's capacity is 300 to 500 mAH, depending on the brand used. (See link below) The capacities assume you use generation currents of 100 mA or less. Here are the approximate mAH needed for the full strength and 20 percent solutions. Full strength: To make 50 ppm silver in citric acid - 12.5 mAH To make 400 ppm copper in citric acid - 162 mAH Total: 165 mAH 20 percent: To make 10 ppm silver in citric acid - none (use CS generator) To make 80 ppm copper in citric acid - 32 mAH Total: 32 mAH As you can see, carbon-zinc 9 volt batteries only have enough capacity for the 20 percent solution. Alkaline 9 volt batteries can easily make the full strength solution. - Steve N http://www.powerstream.com/9V-Alkaline-tests.htm Discharge tests of 9 Volt transistor radio style Batteries -Original Message- From: Shirley Reed [mailto:pj20...@yahoo.com] Sent: Wednesday, August 04, 2010 1:24 PM To: silver-list@eskimo.com Subject: EXTERNAL:CSSteve Norton and copper, silver, citrate solution Steve, Thank you for that 'recipe' for the MRSA treatment solution. Is it possible for you to post a 'neighborhood' type formula for this? I am not familiar with many of the things you mention so a simplified version will be very greatly appreciated. I am intending to try to use 3 nine volt batteries in series instead of my cs generator. Do you think that will work? If my questions reflect so much ignorance that my situation is hopeless, then please ignore this. Since MRSA reportedly killed more people last year than did AIDs, then it seems to me that this Cu,Ag,citrate solution should be in everyone's grasp. I can make the CS, have the citric acid, copper wires, and can do the ph, but cannot get proper ppm measurements. Anyhow, thanks for plowing through this. pj -- The Silver List is a moderated forum for discussing Colloidal Silver. Rules and Instructions: http://www.silverlist.org Unsubscribe: mailto:silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com?subject=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/silver-list@eskimo.com/maillist.html Off-Topic discussions: mailto:silver-off-topic-l...@eskimo.com List Owner: Mike Devour mailto:mdev...@eskimo.com
Re: CScopper, silver, citrate solution
You can add the citric acid to the CS after the CS is made IF you are making the 20 percent solution. Otherwise the citric acid needs to be added first. The citric acid always needs to be added before making the copper citrate. Sorry if I was unclear on that point. - Steve N -Original Message- From: AnnieBSmythe [mailto:anniebsmy...@gmail.com] Sent: Monday, August 09, 2010 9:54 PM To: silver-list@eskimo.com Subject:Re: CScopper, silver, citrate solution So you can add the citric acid after the silver and copper are made, and it will still turn out right? Annie On 8/9/2010 11:14 PM, Norton, Steve wrote: pj, I might suggest a simplified approach. Since much of the test information in the patent was using the copper-silver, citrate solution at a 20 percent solution, just make the solution at the 20 percent concentration, which would be 10 ppm silver and 80 ppm copper. To do that, you could make the ionic silver in your CS generator. Assuming an ionic content of 85 percent, just make the CS at 12 ppm. Then add the citric acid to the CS, add the potassium carbonate and use the 9 volt batteries along with copper electrodes to make the copper citrate. As far as using 9 volt batteries, you will need two 9 volt batteries in series. You can make copper citrate with 9.8 volts. A 9 volt battery quickly drops to 8 volts in use and so two will give you about 16 volts. You will need to use alkaline 9 volt batteries if you make the full strength solution. Carbon-zinc 9 volt batteries just barely have enough capacity for the 20 percent solution. A carbon-zinc battery's capacity is roughly 35 mAH in this application. An alkaline battery's capacity is 300 to 500 mAH, depending on the brand used. (See link below) The capacities assume you use generation currents of 100 mA or less. Here are the approximate mAH needed for the full strength and 20 percent solutions. Full strength: To make 50 ppm silver in citric acid - 12.5 mAH To make 400 ppm copper in citric acid - 162 mAH Total: 165 mAH 20 percent: To make 10 ppm silver in citric acid - none (use CS generator) To make 80 ppm copper in citric acid - 32 mAH Total: 32 mAH As you can see, carbon-zinc 9 volt batteries only have enough capacity for the 20 percent solution. Alkaline 9 volt batteries can easily make the full strength solution. - Steve N http://www.powerstream.com/9V-Alkaline-tests.htm Discharge tests of 9 Volt transistor radio style Batteries -- The Silver List is a moderated forum for discussing Colloidal Silver. Rules and Instructions: http://www.silverlist.org Unsubscribe: mailto:silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com?subject=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/silver-list@eskimo.com/maillist.html Off-Topic discussions: mailto:silver-off-topic-l...@eskimo.com List Owner: Mike Devour mailto:mdev...@eskimo.com
Re: EXTERNAL:Re: CSSteve Norton and copper, silver, citrate solution
Just buy a short piece of electrical copper wire used for house wiring. It has a high purity. - Steve N - Original Message - From: AnnieBSmythe anniebsmy...@gmail.com To: silver-list@eskimo.com silver-list@eskimo.com Sent: Sat Aug 07 12:50:22 2010 Subject: EXTERNAL:Re: CSSteve Norton and copper, silver, citrate solution Steve, where can I find the right copper electrodes, please? Annie On 8/4/2010 3:50 PM, Norton, Steve wrote: Here is a method following the patent's described process: Put 1/8 to1/4 cup of citric acid in 1 liter of water. Run current through silver electrodes in the citric acid same as you would for colloidal silver until you reach 50 ppm. Use the Faraday calculator (see below) to estimate the silver ppm. You will get higher currents if you do not have a current limiter due to the high conductivity of the citric acid solution but that is not a problem because the silver ions bind quickly with the citric acid to form silver citrate, e.g. no agglomeration problems. Add potassium carbonate, to get a pH of 5.5. Replace the silver electrodes with copper electrodes and do the same till you get the desired concentration (400 ppm) of copper citrate. Then adjust the pH of the solution to between 2.5 and 3.5 using additional citric acid. The Faraday calculator is available at: http://www.silvermedicine.org/faradaycalculator.html. To use the Faraday calculator you will need a digital multi-meter to measure the current passing through the electrodes. This link shows how to measure the current: http://www.atlasnova.com/CSMakingInfo.htm. For this application two 9 volt batteries wired to the electrodes will be ok to use since current limiting is not an issue. For the copper electrodes just use any copper wire. I make silver citrate regularly and it is very easy. If you are in a hurry and have a local beer/wine makers supply store you should be able to get citric acid and potassium carbonate there, although maybe not at the lowest price. I am not sure that the potassium carbonate is necessary but it is in the formula used in the patent. - Steve N -Original Message- From: Shirley Reed [mailto:pj20...@yahoo.com] Sent: Wednesday, August 04, 2010 1:24 PM To: silver-list@eskimo.com Subject: EXTERNAL:CSSteve Norton and copper, silver, citrate solution Steve, Thank you for that 'recipe' for the MRSA treatment solution. Is it possible for you to post a 'neighborhood' type formula for this? I am not familiar with many of the things you mention so a simplified version will be very greatly appreciated. I am intending to try to use 3 nine volt batteries in series instead of my cs generator. Do you think that will work? If my questions reflect so much ignorance that my situation is hopeless, then please ignore this. Since MRSA reportedly killed more people last year than did AIDs, then it seems to me that this Cu,Ag,citrate solution should be in everyone's grasp. I can make the CS, have the citric acid, copper wires, and can do the ph, but cannot get proper ppm measurements. Anyhow, thanks for plowing through this. pj -- The Silver List is a moderated forum for discussing Colloidal Silver. Rules and Instructions: http://www.silverlist.org Unsubscribe: mailto:silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com?subject=subscribe Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/silver-list@eskimo.com/maillist.html Off-Topic discussions:mailto:silver-off-topic-l...@eskimo.com List Owner: Mike Devourmailto:mdev...@eskimo.com
Re: EXTERNAL:CSPersonal-Care Suggestion
Would the DMSO/urea combination also help transport antifungals through the nails? Thanks for the info. - Steve N - Original Message - From: brooks76...@lycos.com brooks76...@lycos.com To: Silver-list@eskimo.com Silver-list@eskimo.com Sent: Thu Aug 05 19:16:28 2010 Subject: EXTERNAL:CSPersonal-Care Suggestion Having to address a number of recurring inquiries relating to difficulties/inconveniences/frustrations relating to brittle/splitting finger nails, imposed over recent yearsprompted one of us to evaluate for a simple methodology that would offer some acceptable solution. Early-on it was determined thatcontrary to common belief.special additions of gelatin/collagen to the existing diet do not---of themselves--- solve the problem. One can obtain just as effective a result through eating a piece of chickenas by consuming gelatin concentrates. (This troubled me, especially since I had been operating under the misconception [principally based on the very high protein percentage of gelatin/collagen fractions] that chitin-based cell structures would respond most favorably to gelatin supplements.) The truth of the matter seems to be that the principal causes of nail brittleness/splitting is the dehydration effectespecially as we age. Without boring you with ancillary details, I simply state that we confirmed that nails dehydrate just as does the skin (they are both constructed of the same type material). Additionally, we determined that using skin conditioning substances containing urea were the most effective protocol for addressing the dehydration insult. Products such as Eucerin (not recommending as a specific purchase)contain acceptable levels of urea. We found a little modification to that recommendated by the various skin care companiesincreased the effectiveness of their re-hydration procedures-by almost an order of magnitudein time. It was, simply, just through mixing the gel or liquid moisturizing agent (containing urea) at a concentration of 70% (by volume) with DMSO (full strength) 30% (by volume). The overall suppleness improvement of the nails was quite dramaticmanifesting within (sometimes) hours. However, do remember that fingernails, generally, grow at about about 2 or 3 mm per month. Therefore, complete correction via regrowth requires a one-to-one relationship between the crack length and the time for regrowth. We determined that daily application was the preferred interval. However, once every 2 days proved acceptable...especially if the subject used gloves when washing dishes and did not display a fetish for over-frequent hand-washing. Additionally, the improved tissue flexibility around the nail-bed was dramatic (in some cases). While not of great health import, I did feel this simple procedure recommended itself sufficiently to be posted for membership reading. Sincerely, Brooks Bradley. p.s. No wisecracks accusing me of being a cosmetics hustler. -- The Silver List is a moderated forum for discussing Colloidal Silver. Rules and Instructions: http://www.silverlist.org Unsubscribe: mailto:silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com?subject=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/silver-list@eskimo.com/maillist.html Off-Topic discussions: mailto:silver-off-topic-l...@eskimo.com List Owner: Mike Devour mailto:mdev...@eskimo.com
CSRegenerative wound healing using copper-silver citrate composition
This is a resend. I am sending as Plain Text to reduce the message size. Apparently the previous attempt was too large. I don’t know the reason for the potassium carbonate or the pH adjustments and apparently neither does the inventor. There is a supplier of silver citrate that adds tri-potassium citrate to their silver citrate. Here is what they say about the potassium in their product: http://www.silver100.com/details.html “The chemistry is very deliberate and very well understood by a chemist. • The chemical formula of Opti-Silver is: K₂C₆H₅O₇Ag (where C₆H₅O₇ represents citrate) • The equilibrium equation of Opti-Silver is: K₂CitAg ↔ K₂Cit + Ag⁺ (where Cit represents citrate) Only patented Opti-Silver™ can keep silver citrate in solution in water in a stabilized complex — see the left side of the equilibrium equation shown directly above, which represents “silver citrate complex (with potassium as the counterion)”... ...and slowly release more and more of the silver as free silver ions (Ag+) as they’re used up by the body — see the right side of the equilibrium equation, which represents “free silver ion and citrate (with potassium as the counterion).” While in the bottle, Opti-Silver keeps the vast majority of its silver in a stable, soluble, complexed state (left side of the equilibrium equation) and leaves only a very small portion of its silver available as free silver ion (right side of the equilibrium equation). After absorption into the body, Opti-Silver gradually releases more and more of its silver from the complexed state to the free silver ion state.” Of course, all the answers may be here if you can understand it g: http://pubs.acs.org/doi/abs/10.1021/ja01135a010 Citrate Complexes of Copper in Acid Solutions - Steve N -Original Message- From: Dan Nave [mailto:bhangcha...@gmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, August 04, 2010 10:47 AM To: silver-list@eskimo.com Subject: EXTERNAL:Re: CSRegenerative wound healing using copper-silver citrate composition Just got around to reading the article. This is very interesting. I wonder if the results are different than straight silver citrate, although if not, it may be cheaper since the silver concentration can be kept down while the copper, being less expensive, is at higher concentration. It may be that the copper is necessary for the full effect. Do you know why they would buffer the solution with potassium carbonate to pH 5.5 before electrolysis for both the silver and copper electrolysis phase, and then add citric acid at the end to get a pH of about 3? I mean, it seems like extra steps, unless that allows them to get the proportions correct in a simplified manner, somehow. With this end product, one could conceivably use standard jewelery silver at 80% Silver and 20% Copper if there was a cost differential between that silver and the 99.9% fine silver. Any indication of the shelf life? Dan
CSSteve Norton and copper, silver, citrate solution
Here is a method following the patent's described process: Put 1/8 to1/4 cup of citric acid in 1 liter of water. Run current through silver electrodes in the citric acid same as you would for colloidal silver until you reach 50 ppm. Use the Faraday calculator (see below) to estimate the silver ppm. You will get higher currents if you do not have a current limiter due to the high conductivity of the citric acid solution but that is not a problem because the silver ions bind quickly with the citric acid to form silver citrate, e.g. no agglomeration problems. Add potassium carbonate, to get a pH of 5.5. Replace the silver electrodes with copper electrodes and do the same till you get the desired concentration (400 ppm) of copper citrate. Then adjust the pH of the solution to between 2.5 and 3.5 using additional citric acid. The Faraday calculator is available at: http://www.silvermedicine.org/faradaycalculator.html. To use the Faraday calculator you will need a digital multi-meter to measure the current passing through the electrodes. This link shows how to measure the current: http://www.atlasnova.com/CSMakingInfo.htm. For this application two 9 volt batteries wired to the electrodes will be ok to use since current limiting is not an issue. For the copper electrodes just use any copper wire. I make silver citrate regularly and it is very easy. If you are in a hurry and have a local beer/wine makers supply store you should be able to get citric acid and potassium carbonate there, although maybe not at the lowest price. I am not sure that the potassium carbonate is necessary but it is in the formula used in the patent. - Steve N -Original Message- From: Shirley Reed [mailto:pj20...@yahoo.com] Sent: Wednesday, August 04, 2010 1:24 PM To: silver-list@eskimo.com Subject: EXTERNAL:CSSteve Norton and copper, silver, citrate solution Steve, Thank you for that 'recipe' for the MRSA treatment solution. Is it possible for you to post a 'neighborhood' type formula for this? I am not familiar with many of the things you mention so a simplified version will be very greatly appreciated. I am intending to try to use 3 nine volt batteries in series instead of my cs generator. Do you think that will work? If my questions reflect so much ignorance that my situation is hopeless, then please ignore this. Since MRSA reportedly killed more people last year than did AIDs, then it seems to me that this Cu,Ag,citrate solution should be in everyone's grasp. I can make the CS, have the citric acid, copper wires, and can do the ph, but cannot get proper ppm measurements. Anyhow, thanks for plowing through this. pj -- The Silver List is a moderated forum for discussing Colloidal Silver. Rules and Instructions: http://www.silverlist.org Unsubscribe: mailto:silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com?subject=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/silver-list@eskimo.com/maillist.html Off-Topic discussions: mailto:silver-off-topic-l...@eskimo.com List Owner: Mike Devour mailto:mdev...@eskimo.com
RE: EXTERNAL:CSSteve Norton and copper, silver, citrate solution
You may need at least 27 volts for the colloidal copper. I will try a run using 9 volt batteries. Maybe I can give you rough numbers of run times. - Steve N -Original Message- From: Norton, Steve [mailto:stephen.nor...@ngc.com] Sent: Wednesday, August 04, 2010 1:51 PM To: silver-list@eskimo.com Subject: EXTERNAL:CSSteve Norton and copper, silver, citrate solution Here is a method following the patent's described process: Put 1/8 to1/4 cup of citric acid in 1 liter of water. Run current through silver electrodes in the citric acid same as you would for colloidal silver until you reach 50 ppm. Use the Faraday calculator (see below) to estimate the silver ppm. You will get higher currents if you do not have a current limiter due to the high conductivity of the citric acid solution but that is not a problem because the silver ions bind quickly with the citric acid to form silver citrate, e.g. no agglomeration problems. Add potassium carbonate, to get a pH of 5.5. Replace the silver electrodes with copper electrodes and do the same till you get the desired concentration (400 ppm) of copper citrate. Then adjust the pH of the solution to between 2.5 and 3.5 using additional citric acid. The Faraday calculator is available at: http://www.silvermedicine.org/faradaycalculator.html. To use the Faraday calculator you will need a digital multi-meter to measure the current passing through the electrodes. This link shows how to measure the current: http://www.atlasnova.com/CSMakingInfo.htm. For this application two 9 volt batteries wired to the electrodes will be ok to use since current limiting is not an issue. For the copper electrodes just use any copper wire. I make silver citrate regularly and it is very easy. If you are in a hurry and have a local beer/wine makers supply store you should be able to get citric acid and potassium carbonate there, although maybe not at the lowest price. I am not sure that the potassium carbonate is necessary but it is in the formula used in the patent. - Steve N -- The Silver List is a moderated forum for discussing Colloidal Silver. Rules and Instructions: http://www.silverlist.org Unsubscribe: mailto:silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com?subject=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/silver-list@eskimo.com/maillist.html Off-Topic discussions: mailto:silver-off-topic-l...@eskimo.com List Owner: Mike Devour mailto:mdev...@eskimo.com
CSColloidal copper
Does anyone know if the Silver Medicine Faraday calculator needs changes to estimate colloidal copper ppm vs silver? Thanks, Steve N
Re: CSSteve Norton and copper, silver, citrate solution
I would only use it topically because of concern over too much copper internally. - Steve N -Original Message- From: needling around [mailto:ptf2...@bellsouth.net] Sent: Wednesday, August 04, 2010 3:16 PM To: silver-list@eskimo.com Subject: EXTERNAL:Re: CSSteve Norton and copper, silver, citrate solution Hi Steve, Is this taken internally or is it made into a gel and used externally? Thanks. PT - Original Message - From: Norton, Steve stephen.nor...@ngc.com To: silver-list@eskimo.com Sent: Wednesday, August 04, 2010 4:50 PM Subject: CSSteve Norton and copper, silver, citrate solution Here is a method following the patent's described process: Put 1/8 to1/4 cup of citric acid in 1 liter of water. Run current through silver electrodes in the citric acid same as you would for colloidal silver until you reach 50 ppm. Use the Faraday calculator (see below) to estimate the silver ppm. You will get higher currents if you do not have a current limiter due to the high conductivity of the citric acid solution but that is not a problem because the silver ions bind quickly with the citric acid to form silver citrate, e.g. no agglomeration problems. Add potassium carbonate, to get a pH of 5.5. Replace the silver electrodes with copper electrodes and do the same till you get the desired concentration (400 ppm) of copper citrate. Then adjust the pH of the solution to between 2.5 and 3.5 using additional citric acid. The Faraday calculator is available at: http://www.silvermedicine.org/faradaycalculator.html. To use the Faraday calculator you will need a digital multi-meter to measure the current passing through the electrodes. This link shows how to measure the current: http://www.atlasnova.com/CSMakingInfo.htm. For this application two 9 volt batteries wired to the electrodes will be ok to use since current limiting is not an issue. For the copper electrodes just use any copper wire. I make silver citrate regularly and it is very easy. If you are in a hurry and have a local beer/wine makers supply store you should be able to get citric acid and potassium carbonate there, although maybe not at the lowest price. I am not sure that the potassium carbonate is necessary but it is in the formula used in the patent. - Steve N -- The Silver List is a moderated forum for discussing Colloidal Silver. Rules and Instructions: http://www.silverlist.org Unsubscribe: mailto:silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com?subject=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/silver-list@eskimo.com/maillist.html Off-Topic discussions: mailto:silver-off-topic-l...@eskimo.com List Owner: Mike Devour mailto:mdev...@eskimo.com
Re: CSSteve Norton and copper, silver, citrate solution
You can. Right now I just plan on a spray. - Steve N -Original Message- From: needling around [mailto:ptf2...@bellsouth.net] Sent: Wednesday, August 04, 2010 4:21 PM To: silver-list@eskimo.com Subject: EXTERNAL:Re: CSSteve Norton and copper, silver, citrate solution So then do you make a gel out of it or what? Thanks. PT -- The Silver List is a moderated forum for discussing Colloidal Silver. Rules and Instructions: http://www.silverlist.org Unsubscribe: mailto:silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com?subject=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/silver-list@eskimo.com/maillist.html Off-Topic discussions: mailto:silver-off-topic-l...@eskimo.com List Owner: Mike Devour mailto:mdev...@eskimo.com
Re: CSColloidal copper
Thanks Marshall. - Steve -Original Message- From: Marshall Dudley [mailto:mdud...@king-cart.com] Sent: Wednesday, August 04, 2010 4:17 PM To: silver-list@eskimo.com Subject: EXTERNAL:Re: CSColloidal copper Norton, Steve wrote: Does anyone know if the Silver Medicine Faraday calculator needs changes to estimate colloidal copper ppm vs silver? Thanks, Steve N If you use a silver Faraday chart, then you need to multiply by .5891 for copper. Marshall -- The -- The Silver List is a moderated forum for discussing Colloidal Silver. Rules and Instructions: http://www.silverlist.org Unsubscribe: mailto:silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com?subject=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/silver-list@eskimo.com/maillist.html Off-Topic discussions: mailto:silver-off-topic-l...@eskimo.com List Owner: Mike Devour mailto:mdev...@eskimo.com
Re:CSAg, Cu, and citrate
According to Marshall, when you use the silver Faraday chart for copper, you will need to multiply by 0.5891 to get the copper ppm. - Steve N - Original Message - From: Shirley Reed pj20...@yahoo.com To: silver-list@eskimo.com silver-list@eskimo.com Sent: Wed Aug 04 19:25:30 2010 Subject: EXTERNAL:CSAg, Cu, and citrate Steve Thank you for the Faraday page and imho it is very kind of you to try to get this info into a form that the uninformed like me may be able to use. pj -- The Silver List is a moderated forum for discussing Colloidal Silver. Rules and Instructions: http://www.silverlist.org Unsubscribe: mailto:silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com?subject=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/silver-list@eskimo.com/maillist.html Off-Topic discussions: mailto:silver-off-topic-l...@eskimo.com List Owner: Mike Devour mailto:mdev...@eskimo.com
CSFw: Re: [germkiller] Neuropathy question {Private}
Here is the patent that rebuildermedical refers to on his site ;
http://www.freepatentsonline.com/20050234525.pdf. As mentioned on his site, the
patent does not provide specific details of the waveform used but there are
other manufacturers using the same waveform. The waveform detail is shown on
chart 11 of the presentation at:
http://www.calmarett.com/media/pdf/Marieno_Boston.pdf. It is for a system built
by Calmare Pain Therapy Treatment (Calmare) at http://www.calmarett.com/.
Another related patent is http://www.freepatentsonline.com/y2009/0326607.html.
Again by a different inventor but strikingly similar in concept.
The pulse shape is very similar to that you'd get by putting a pulse through an
audio transformer. And it turns out that there is a study for that too:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12917999. I don't think it would be too
difficult to design a circuit to get the waveform.
I do notice some differences between the Calmere and rebuildermedical units.
The Calmere unit only uses 5.5 ma of current for their stimulator (chart 21 in
the presentation above) while rebuildermedical appears to use voltage levels
that would generate higher currents. Of course I could be wrong. I haven't had
time to really absorb it all.
- Steve
From: Renee [mailto:gaiac...@gmail.com]
Sent: Tuesday, August 03, 2010 6:47 AM
To: silver-list@eskimo.com
Subject: EXTERNAL:CSFw: Re: [germkiller] Neuropathy question {Private}
Here is the message I got from a guy on another list. He said how much the
device had helped him and I had asked about building one--this was his reply.
I put a link first to the machine, then the last link is to the frequency part
that I was going to try to duplicate. But his message is so convincing that it
would be worth just getting.
Samala,
Renee
---Original Message---
http://www.rebuildermedical.com/index.php
~~
Renee,
Buy this for your dad.
Nevermind the cost.
Neuropathy is a living hell if advanced.
For me, the only thing that worked was strong narcotics and those only push the
pain under the rug, this will help correct the cause. What is more, once the
neuropathy begins to reverse, it is as if you are shined with joy. I can now
feel when my wife touches me and I can feel her with I touch her. That may mean
a small thing to you, but then, you have not neuropathy.
I had looked into recreating this and I could given time, as many here could,
but in my own case, it would cost me more than $700 in my time. As for me, I
ordered it and do not regret it one bit. They give a good trial period with
kind and expert and generous support, it works, and frankly is not expensive at
all, especially when you consider that pain meds or herbs about 2-5$ a day and
it does work for most of us humans.
Renee wrote:
Hi bG. Someone on another list mentioned this device. I was reading about
it and it sounds like it would be a good thing to have for people with
neuropathy. But very expensive. Is this something we could make at home?
My father has diabetic neuropathy and I was wondering if it would be hard or
easy to build this. The lady that mentioned it said that it is working for
her.
The first link is to the technical page for doctors. From there, if you go
to the FAQ page it has a bit more about the frequency it uses, etc.
http://www.rebuildermedical.com/technical_specifications.php
Samala,
Renee
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RE:CSFw: Re: [germkiller] Neuropathy question {Private}
The reference below should have been
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10198531.
- Steve N
-Original Message-
From: Norton, Steve [mailto:stephen.nor...@ngc.com]
Sent: Tuesday, August 03, 2010 1:56 PM
To: silver-list@eskimo.com
Subject: EXTERNAL:CSFw: Re: [germkiller] Neuropathy question {Private}
The pulse shape is very similar to that you'd get by putting a pulse
through an audio transformer. And it turns out that there is a study for
that too: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12917999. I don't think it
would be too difficult to design a circuit to get the waveform.
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RE: EXTERNAL:CSFw: Re: [germkiller] Neuropathy question {Private}
I probably should have linked to the version with the illustrations:
http://www.freepatentsonline.com/20090326607.pdf, to help understand the
patent.
- Steve N
-Original Message-
From: Norton, Steve [mailto:stephen.nor...@ngc.com]
Sent: Tuesday, August 03, 2010 1:56 PM
To: silver-list@eskimo.com
Subject: EXTERNAL:CSFw: Re: [germkiller] Neuropathy question {Private}
Another related patent is
http://www.freepatentsonline.com/y2009/0326607.html. Again by a
different inventor but strikingly similar in concept.
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RE: CSFw: Re: [germkiller] Neuropathy question
After taking a closer look at the references below and some others I found, the
method used is relatively straight forward. Most use an asymmetrical biphasic
waveform. But not all. The asymmetrical biphasic waveform is basically a
higher voltage positive pulse followed by a lower voltage negative pulse. The
negative pulse is around one sixth the amplitude of the positive pulse but is
six times longer in duration than the positive pulse. Therefore the magnitude
of the pulse amplitude times the pulse duration of the positive and the
negative pulse are both equal. My guess is that is to prevent a buildup of
potentially harmful hydroxides while keeping the negative pulse below an active
nerve stimulation level. The method of setting the positive pulse voltage level
is to set it at a point that the user can feel the stimulation but it is below
the level that would cause muscle twitching.
It appears that a triangular positive pulse is more effective than a
rectangular pulse but it also appears that both will work. There is a study
that provides details on designing a triangular pulse specific for nerve
stimulation but it will cost a fee to view it. It may even be the source for
the original rebuildermedical device ??? The study is available at:
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science?_ob=ArticleURL_udi=B6T04-484MD70-63_user=9167998_coverDate=04%2F30%2F1991_rdoc=1_fmt=high_orig=search_sort=d_docanchor=view=c_searchStrId=1420356163_rerunOrigin=google_acct=C66754_version=1_urlVersion=0_userid=9167998md5=5bb8afa385a70283707f9a8ecea62339
A modified triangular pulse stimulator for C-fibers stimulation
A low-cost, battery-powered stimulator is described. This device generates
asymmetric current pulse with fast rising phase and slower exponential decay.
The current intensity and the time constant of the exponential decay can be
independently and continuously varied. An example of using this stimulator to
selectively activate C-fibers is demonstrated. In this case the total charge
injected in one stimulation is only 67 nanocolumb, which is much smaller than
that injected by conventional DC polarization technique. Detailed information
about the circuit design is described.
Pulse with is somewhat variable but rebuildermedical uses 240 us positive pulse
followed by a 1,458 us negative pulse. Others us pulse widths up into the tens
of milliseconds, so there is a lot of possible variability.
It is the same with repetition frequency, Again, rebuildermedical uses 7.8 Hz
but it does not appear to be critical.
It is actually a fairly simple device. But it also appears to be effective for
many.
- Steve N
-Original Message-
From: Norton, Steve
Sent: Tuesday, August 03, 2010 1:56 PM
To: silver-list@eskimo.com
Subject: CSFw: Re: [germkiller] Neuropathy question
{Note: References below have been corrected}
Here is the patent that rebuildermedical refers to on his site ;
http://www.freepatentsonline.com/20050234525.pdf. As mentioned on his site, the
patent does not provide specific details of the waveform used but there are
other manufacturers using the same waveform. The waveform detail is shown on
chart 11 of the presentation at:
http://www.calmarett.com/media/pdf/Marieno_Boston.pdf. It is for a system built
by Calmare Pain Therapy Treatment (Calmare) at http://www.calmarett.com/.
Another related patent is http://www.freepatentsonline.com/20090326607.pdf.
Again by a different inventor but strikingly similar in concept.
The pulse shape is very similar to that you'd get by putting a pulse through an
audio transformer. And it turns out that there is a study for that too:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10198531. I don't think it would be too
difficult to design a circuit to get the waveform.
I do notice some differences between the Calmere and rebuildermedical units.
The Calmere unit only uses 5.5 ma of current for their stimulator (chart 21 in
the presentation above) while rebuildermedical appears to use voltage levels
that would generate higher currents. Of course I could be wrong. I haven't had
time to really absorb it all.
- Steve
From: Renee [mailto:gaiac...@gmail.com]
Sent: Tuesday, August 03, 2010 6:47 AM
To: silver-list@eskimo.com
Subject: EXTERNAL:CSFw: Re: [germkiller] Neuropathy question {Private}
Here is the message I got from a guy on another list. He said how much the
device had helped him and I had asked about building one--this was his reply.
I put a link first to the machine, then the last link is to the frequency part
that I was going to try to duplicate. But his message is so convincing that it
would be worth just getting.
Samala,
Renee
--
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