Re: CS Distilled Water of .000
On 10/2/2010 9:01 PM, Neville Munn wrote: Thanks very much for that Marshall, much appreciated. On re-reading my comments I did notice two oversights on my part, I forgot about the accuracy % factor in meters, and I overlooked the stupidly simple uS and TDS equivalent or conversion, sorry about that. My constant oversights of the simple and obvious are quite frustrating at times. A final comment if you will, as your closing comment was significant to a thought which has been rattling around in my head for some time...endothermics. I've considered for some time that the action of ions colliding in an aqueous solution must generate some form of energy as they break through that energy barrier or Nernst or double layer surrounding the ion, and the result of those impacts could only generate one form of energy...heat. It would not be the actual impact of those ions or particles necessarily which generates energy as positive and negative simply attract as a natural law of unlike poles attracting, but rather it would be the friction created via the *breaking through of that energy barrier* which surrounds the ion. Would that assumption be correct? In the molecular and atomic world motion and heat are different ways of expressing the same thing. So if you consider something forcing its way through the energy barrier, that takes energy to do so, and the result is a drop in velocity, in some cases to near 0, and a LOSS of heat. That is it would tend to be endothermic.. It would take energy to penetrate the barrier, and the kinetic energy of the particle or molecule would have been converted to potential energy when it does so. Only kinetic energy shows up as heat thus thus this would result in a loss of themal energy.. Marshall -- The Silver List is a moderated forum for discussing Colloidal Silver. Rules and Instructions: http://www.silverlist.org Unsubscribe: mailto:silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com?subject=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/silver-list@eskimo.com/maillist.html Off-Topic discussions: mailto:silver-off-topic-l...@eskimo.com List Owner: Mike Devour mailto:mdev...@eskimo.com
RE: CS Distilled Water of .000
Ah Hah! NOW I begin to understand the world of atoms and molecules a little
more betterer g.
I was under the impression that 'motion' in this context was a reference to
'velocity', and this is why I thought that due to the 'velocity' of ion or
molecule movement, combined with the 'G' forces required for penetration of
that barrier, there would be some 'major' event {at an atomic scale of course,
and only a 'flash' moment in time} occurring upon impact.
Thank you for that simplisitic explanation.
N.
Date: Sun, 3 Oct 2010 11:34:33 -0400
From: mdud...@king-cart.com
To: silver-list@eskimo.com
Subject: Re: CS Distilled Water of .000
On 10/2/2010 9:01 PM, Neville Munn wrote:
Thanks very much for that Marshall, much appreciated.
On re-reading my comments I did notice two oversights on my part, I
forgot about the accuracy % factor in meters, and I overlooked the
stupidly simple uS and TDS equivalent or conversion, sorry about
that. My constant oversights of the simple and obvious are quite
frustrating at times.
A final comment if you will, as your closing comment was significant
to a thought which has been rattling around in my head for some
time...endothermics.
I've considered for some time that the action of ions colliding in an
aqueous solution must generate some form of energy as they break
through that energy barrier or Nernst or double layer surrounding the
ion, and the result of those impacts could only generate one form of
energy...heat. It would not be the actual impact of those ions or
particles necessarily which generates energy as positive and negative
simply attract as a natural law of unlike poles attracting, but rather
it would be the friction created via the *breaking through of that
energy barrier* which surrounds the ion. Would that assumption be
correct?
In the molecular and atomic world motion and heat are different ways of
expressing the same thing. So if you consider something forcing its way
through the energy barrier, that takes energy to do so, and the result
is a drop in velocity, in some cases to near 0, and a LOSS of heat. That
is it would tend to be endothermic.. It would take energy to penetrate
the barrier, and the kinetic energy of the particle or molecule would
have been converted to potential energy when it does so. Only kinetic
energy shows up as heat thus thus this would result in a loss of themal
energy..
Marshall
--
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RE: CS Distilled Water of .000
Oh, I think I see. I would have thought that if one meter which has resolution increments of '.1' shows a reading *higher* than '1.', then the meter which reads in increments of 1 would display 1 instead of 000 when the first meter registers higher than 1 initially? If that's your ...water which is 0.4... thing then I'll have to do some reading up. Example: My records show the Com100uS reading has to exceed 2.6 before the ComTDS3 reading moves from 000 to 001ppm. As most meters are set up or calibrated taking a water temperature compensating factor into account, would this also have a bearing on the apparant different readings from one manufacturers meter to another? Meaning, not only the calibration fluid used, but also the built in temperature compensation may have an influence on the reading of a uS meter compared to a ppm or TDS meter as stated above? Example: My records show the ComTDS3 *always* shows a higher water temperature of DW straight from the bottle anywhere between 1 to 1.8 degrees compared to the Com100uS meter, is the aforesaid an explanation for that? Curiously, after EIS/CS production that temperature difference in the majority of cases seems to reduce after the solution has been in storage for a while, like down to 1 degree or lower, I find it rather strange that it doesn't remain the same difference as it was straight from the bottle. N. Date: Fri, 1 Oct 2010 23:14:28 -0400 From: mdud...@king-cart.com To: silver-list@eskimo.com Subject: Re: CS Distilled Water of .000 On 10/1/2010 9:16 PM, Neville Munn wrote: OK. Not that I'm overly concerned with meter readings particularly but here are some figures if they are of any value. With some of these one could certainly get 0, since they lack the resolution to measure less than 1. For water which is 0.4 of what they are measuring they would measure: .. Com ec/tds/temp...resolution ec 0-99: .1uS, 100-999: 1uS #I don't use the tds function. 0.4 Com tds3...range 0-9990ppm (mg/L) 0 Hanna tds1...range 0-999ppm (mg/L), resolution 1ppm 0. That is why it is so important to know what the resolution is when water is highly non conductive. I do my measurement with a meter that has a resolution of .1 uS, and thus have never seen 0. If I were to use one of the other meters I would see 0 all the time, but they would not really be 0, just lower than the resolution of the instrument. Marshall
Re: CS Distilled Water of .000
On 10/2/2010 2:57 AM, Neville Munn wrote: Oh, I think I see. I would have thought that if one meter which has resolution increments of '.1' shows a reading *higher* than '1.', then the meter which reads in increments of 1 would display 1 instead of 000 when the first meter registers higher than 1 initially? That is true generally. But when you add in accuracy it might still give a zero, if for instance it has an accuracy of .5 and thinks the water is reading .4 because it is off .5 on the accuracy. If that's your ...water which is 0.4... thing then I'll have to do some reading up. Example: My records show the Com100uS reading has to exceed 2.6 before the ComTDS3 reading moves from 000 to 001ppm That makes sense. 2.6 on uS will be equivalent to 1.3 on the TDS, and if the accuracy is no better than .3, than that is quite possible. . As most meters are set up or calibrated taking a water temperature compensating factor into account, would this also have a bearing on the apparant different readings from one manufacturers meter to another? It can, that would reflect in the accuracy or precision/repeatability. Meaning, not only the calibration fluid used, but also the built in temperature compensation may have an influence on the reading of a uS meter compared to a ppm or TDS meter as stated above? Yes, the calibration fluid and water being tested need to be at the same temperature. Example: My records show the ComTDS3 *always* shows a higher water temperature of DW straight from the bottle anywhere between 1 to 1.8 degrees compared to the Com100uS meter, is the aforesaid an explanation for that? A constant offset should not be that significant in being a problem as long as both are calibrated and used at the same temperature. Curiously, after EIS/CS production that temperature difference in the majority of cases seems to reduce after the solution has been in storage for a while, like down to 1 degree or lower, I find it rather strange that it doesn't remain the same difference as it was straight from the bottle. It is quite possible that aggregation is endothermic (in fact if you have two particles colliding that stick together, then you will have less kinetic motion, and thus possibly a reduction in temperature). Marshall N. Date: Fri, 1 Oct 2010 23:14:28 -0400 From: mdud...@king-cart.com To: silver-list@eskimo.com Subject: Re: CS Distilled Water of .000 On 10/1/2010 9:16 PM, Neville Munn wrote: OK. Not that I'm overly concerned with meter readings particularly but here are some figures if they are of any value. With some of these one could certainly get 0, since they lack the resolution to measure less than 1. For water which is 0.4 of what they are measuring they would measure: .. Com ec/tds/temp...resolution ec 0-99: .1uS, 100-999: 1uS #I don't use the tds function. 0.4 Com tds3...range 0-9990ppm (mg/L) 0 Hanna tds1...range 0-999ppm (mg/L), resolution 1ppm 0. That is why it is so important to know what the resolution is when water is highly non conductive. I do my measurement with a meter that has a resolution of .1 uS, and thus have never seen 0. If I were to use one of the other meters I would see 0 all the time, but they would not really be 0, just lower than the resolution of the instrument. Marshall -- The Silver List is a moderated forum for discussing Colloidal Silver. Rules and Instructions: http://www.silverlist.org Unsubscribe: mailto:silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com?subject=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/silver-list@eskimo.com/maillist.html Off-Topic discussions: mailto:silver-off-topic-l...@eskimo.com List Owner: Mike Devour mailto:mdev...@eskimo.com
RE: CS Distilled Water of .000
Thanks very much for that Marshall, much appreciated. On re-reading my comments I did notice two oversights on my part, I forgot about the accuracy % factor in meters, and I overlooked the stupidly simple uS and TDS equivalent or conversion, sorry about that. My constant oversights of the simple and obvious are quite frustrating at times. A final comment if you will, as your closing comment was significant to a thought which has been rattling around in my head for some time...endothermics. I've considered for some time that the action of ions colliding in an aqueous solution must generate some form of energy as they break through that energy barrier or Nernst or double layer surrounding the ion, and the result of those impacts could only generate one form of energy...heat. It would not be the actual impact of those ions or particles necessarily which generates energy as positive and negative simply attract as a natural law of unlike poles attracting, but rather it would be the friction created via the *breaking through of that energy barrier* which surrounds the ion. Would that assumption be correct? N. Date: Sat, 2 Oct 2010 13:11:00 -0400 From: mdud...@king-cart.com To: silver-list@eskimo.com Subject: Re: CS Distilled Water of .000 On 10/2/2010 2:57 AM, Neville Munn wrote: Oh, I think I see. I would have thought that if one meter which has resolution increments of '.1' shows a reading *higher* than '1.', then the meter which reads in increments of 1 would display 1 instead of 000 when the first meter registers higher than 1 initially? That is true generally. But when you add in accuracy it might still give a zero, if for instance it has an accuracy of .5 and thinks the water is reading .4 because it is off .5 on the accuracy. If that's your ...water which is 0.4... thing then I'll have to do some reading up. Example: My records show the Com100uS reading has to exceed 2.6 before the ComTDS3 reading moves from 000 to 001ppm That makes sense. 2.6 on uS will be equivalent to 1.3 on the TDS, and if the accuracy is no better than .3, than that is quite possible. . As most meters are set up or calibrated taking a water temperature compensating factor into account, would this also have a bearing on the apparant different readings from one manufacturers meter to another? It can, that would reflect in the accuracy or precision/repeatability. Meaning, not only the calibration fluid used, but also the built in temperature compensation may have an influence on the reading of a uS meter compared to a ppm or TDS meter as stated above? Yes, the calibration fluid and water being tested need to be at the same temperature. Example: My records show the ComTDS3 *always* shows a higher water temperature of DW straight from the bottle anywhere between 1 to 1.8 degrees compared to the Com100uS meter, is the aforesaid an explanation for that? A constant offset should not be that significant in being a problem as long as both are calibrated and used at the same temperature. Curiously, after EIS/CS production that temperature difference in the majority of cases seems to reduce after the solution has been in storage for a while, like down to 1 degree or lower, I find it rather strange that it doesn't remain the same difference as it was straight from the bottle. It is quite possible that aggregation is endothermic (in fact if you have two particles colliding that stick together, then you will have less kinetic motion, and thus possibly a reduction in temperature). Marshall
Re: CS Distilled Water of .000
Marshall, the only place I have seen and used distilled water which tests on my PWT at .000 was in Australia, Perth to be exact, this distilled water is made specifically for those with kidney problems, and for the Kidney Foundation.I went to the factory which produces it and you should see the machinery they have for making same. You would delight in the factory it is a beauty to be sure, clean as a whistle and smooth as a babies bottom operationally ! Take good care Regards Sandee -- The Silver List is a moderated forum for discussing Colloidal Silver. Rules and Instructions: http://www.silverlist.org Unsubscribe: mailto:silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com?subject=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/silver-list@eskimo.com/maillist.html Off-Topic discussions: mailto:silver-off-topic-l...@eskimo.com List Owner: Mike Devour mailto:mdev...@eskimo.com
RE: CS Distilled Water of .000
I don't use a PWT meter but the Com 100 EC/TDS/TEMP meter has *never* shown zero, the Com TDS3 shows zero in practically *every bottle* of DW I've ever bought, and the Hanna TDS1 shows zero on the *odd* occasion. I use El Cheapo Black and Gold DW from Foodland, or IGA I think it's now called. N. From: oha...@juno.com To: silver-list@eskimo.com Subject: Re: CS Distilled Water of .000 Date: Fri, 1 Oct 2010 15:16:20 -0400 Marshall, the only place I have seen and used distilled water which tests on my PWT at .000 was in Australia, Perth to be exact, this distilled water is made specifically for those with kidney problems, and for the Kidney Foundation. I went to the factory which produces it and you should see the machinery they have for making same. You would delight in the factory it is a beauty to be sure, clean as a whistle and smooth as a babies bottom operationally ! Take good care Regards Sandee -- The Silver List is a moderated forum for discussing Colloidal Silver. Rules and Instructions: http://www.silverlist.org Unsubscribe: mailto:silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com?subject=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/silver-list@eskimo.com/maillist.html Off-Topic discussions: mailto:silver-off-topic-l...@eskimo.com List Owner: Mike Devour mailto:mdev...@eskimo.com
Re: CS Distilled Water of .000
Those number don't mean anything to me without researching each of them. What is important is the resolution of each. If the resolution is 100 uS for instance than anything less than 50, and maybe less than 100 will register 0. Since the expected readings should be between .2 and 3 or so, the meter must be able to measure and display such readings. Marshall On 10/1/2010 6:37 PM, Neville Munn wrote: I don't use a PWT meter but the Com 100 EC/TDS/TEMP meter has *never* shown zero, the Com TDS3 shows zero in practically *every bottle* of DW I've ever bought, and the Hanna TDS1 shows zero on the *odd* occasion. I use El Cheapo Black and Gold DW from Foodland, or IGA I think it's now called. N. From: oha...@juno.com To: silver-list@eskimo.com Subject: Re: CS Distilled Water of .000 Date: Fri, 1 Oct 2010 15:16:20 -0400 Marshall, the only place I have seen and used distilled water which tests on my PWT at .000 was in Australia, Perth to be exact, this distilled water is made specifically for those with kidney problems, and for the Kidney Foundation. I went to the factory which produces it and you should see the machinery they have for making same. You would delight in the factory it is a beauty to be sure, clean as a whistle and smooth as a babies bottom operationally ! Take good care Regards Sandee -- The Silver List is a moderated forum for discussing Colloidal Silver. Rules and Instructions: http://www.silverlist.org Unsubscribe: mailto:silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com?subject=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/silver-list@eskimo.com/maillist.html Off-Topic discussions: mailto:silver-off-topic-l...@eskimo.com List Owner: Mike Devour mailto:mdev...@eskimo.com
RE: CS Distilled Water of .000
OK. Not that I'm overly concerned with meter readings particularly but here are some figures if they are of any value... Com ec/tds/temp...resolution ec 0-99: .1uS, 100-999: 1uS #I don't use the tds function. Com tds3...range 0-9990ppm (mg/L) Hanna tds1...range 0-999ppm (mg/L), resolution 1ppm I haven't written down the accuracy % for each as that's irrelevant to me in my kitchen as opposed to laboratory controlled temperature environment. N. Date: Fri, 1 Oct 2010 19:09:59 -0400 From: mdud...@king-cart.com To: silver-list@eskimo.com Subject: Re: CS Distilled Water of .000 Those number don't mean anything to me without researching each of them. What is important is the resolution of each. If the resolution is 100 uS for instance than anything less than 50, and maybe less than 100 will register 0. Since the expected readings should be between .2 and 3 or so, the meter must be able to measure and display such readings. Marshall On 10/1/2010 6:37 PM, Neville Munn wrote: I don't use a PWT meter but the Com 100 EC/TDS/TEMP meter has *never* shown zero, the Com TDS3 shows zero in practically *every bottle* of DW I've ever bought, and the Hanna TDS1 shows zero on the *odd* occasion. I use El Cheapo Black and Gold DW from Foodland, or IGA I think it's now called. N. From: oha...@juno.com To: silver-list@eskimo.com Subject: Re: CS Distilled Water of .000 Date: Fri, 1 Oct 2010 15:16:20 -0400 Marshall, the only place I have seen and used distilled water which tests on my PWT at .000 was in Australia, Perth to be exact, this distilled water is made specifically for those with kidney problems, and for the Kidney Foundation. I went to the factory which produces it and you should see the machinery they have for making same. You would delight in the factory it is a beauty to be sure, clean as a whistle and smooth as a babies bottom operationally ! Take good care Regards Sandee -- The Silver List is a moderated forum for discussing Colloidal Silver. Rules and Instructions: http://www.silverlist.org Unsubscribe: mailto:silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com?subject=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/silver-list@eskimo.com/maillist.html Off-Topic discussions: mailto:silver-off-topic-l...@eskimo.com List Owner: Mike Devour mailto:mdev...@eskimo.com
Re: CS Distilled Water of .000
On 10/1/2010 9:16 PM, Neville Munn wrote: OK. Not that I'm overly concerned with meter readings particularly but here are some figures if they are of any value. With some of these one could certainly get 0, since they lack the resolution to measure less than 1. For water which is 0.4 of what they are measuring they would measure: .. Com ec/tds/temp...resolution ec 0-99: .1uS, 100-999: 1uS #I don't use the tds function. 0.4 Com tds3...range 0-9990ppm (mg/L) 0 Hanna tds1...range 0-999ppm (mg/L), resolution 1ppm 0. That is why it is so important to know what the resolution is when water is highly non conductive. I do my measurement with a meter that has a resolution of .1 uS, and thus have never seen 0. If I were to use one of the other meters I would see 0 all the time, but they would not really be 0, just lower than the resolution of the instrument. Marshall I haven't written down the accuracy % for each as that's irrelevant to me in my kitchen as opposed to laboratory controlled temperature environment. N. Date: Fri, 1 Oct 2010 19:09:59 -0400 From: mdud...@king-cart.com To: silver-list@eskimo.com Subject: Re: CS Distilled Water of .000 Those number don't mean anything to me without researching each of them. What is important is the resolution of each. If the resolution is 100 uS for instance than anything less than 50, and maybe less than 100 will register 0. Since the expected readings should be between .2 and 3 or so, the meter must be able to measure and display such readings. Marshall On 10/1/2010 6:37 PM, Neville Munn wrote: I don't use a PWT meter but the Com 100 EC/TDS/TEMP meter has *never* shown zero, the Com TDS3 shows zero in practically *every bottle* of DW I've ever bought, and the Hanna TDS1 shows zero on the *odd* occasion. I use El Cheapo Black and Gold DW from Foodland, or IGA I think it's now called. N. From: oha...@juno.com To: silver-list@eskimo.com Subject: Re: CS Distilled Water of .000 Date: Fri, 1 Oct 2010 15:16:20 -0400 Marshall, the only place I have seen and used distilled water which tests on my PWT at .000 was in Australia, Perth to be exact, this distilled water is made specifically for those with kidney problems, and for the Kidney Foundation. I went to the factory which produces it and you should see the machinery they have for making same. You would delight in the factory it is a beauty to be sure, clean as a whistle and smooth as a babies bottom operationally ! Take good care Regards Sandee -- The Silver List is a moderated forum for discussing Colloidal Silver. Rules and Instructions: http://www.silverlist.org Unsubscribe: mailto:silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com?subject=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/silver-list@eskimo.com/maillist.html Off-Topic discussions: mailto:silver-off-topic-l...@eskimo.com List Owner: Mike Devour mailto:mdev...@eskimo.com
