Re: Combustible Concealed Space-Area Reduction
the prior ones were listed to 36 inches which triggered the issue. Even if you have one that still says 36 inches, the next edition will say you can exceed it (aka supercedes the listing just like they can be used with TJI whereas they are listed just for solid wood joist). Clear as mud?? Roland Roland Huggins, PE - VP Engineering American Fire Sprinkler Assn. --- Fire Sprinklers Saves Lives Dallas, TX http://www.firesprinkler.org <http://www.firesprinkler.org/> > On Oct 14, 2016, at 8:26 AM, Cliff Whitfield wrote: > > Hi Roland, > > I’m a little confused (no big surprise). I just went back to look at the > Globe IC and it appears to be listed for 60”. Am I missing something in your > post or in their listing? > > Thanks, > Cliff Whitfield > > From: Sprinklerforum [mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org > <mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org>] On Behalf Of Roland > Huggins > Sent: Friday, October 14, 2016 11:15 AM > To: sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org > <mailto:sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org> > Subject: Re: Combustible Concealed Space-Area Reduction > > you do not go to the floor below the ceiling in determining the applicable > height. Below the ceiling is treated as a totally separate portion of the > system with its own design basis. The only exception to this is when your > ceiling is not solid like a metal grated mezzanine floor or your using the > pipe schedule and serving both areas with the same BL. > > As for the CC sprinklers (and other mfgs), they are actually listed for NO > MORE THAN 36 inches. This can be a problem when there is a long run and a 2 > in 12 slope. The 2019 ed will allow it to protect the higher area as well. > > Roland > > Roland Huggins, PE - VP Engineering > American Fire Sprinkler Assn. --- Fire Sprinklers Saves Lives > Dallas, TX > http://www.firesprinkler.org <http://www.firesprinkler.org/> > > > >> On Oct 14, 2016, at 7:44 AM, Taylor Schumacher > <mailto:tay...@sfsprinkler.com>> wrote: >> >> Thanks for the responses. The concealed space is 4’ to 6’ in areas and is >> above a convention center, so if we count to the floor we exceed the 20’ max >> ceiling height. Wasn’t aware of the CC sprinklers allowing 60 inch spacing >> but draft stopping an area this big makes me cringe. We were able to respace >> the sprinklers and got the calculation to work. >> >> TAYLOR SCHUMACHER, CET >> Security Fire Sprinkler >> P 320.656.0847 | F 320.656.0312 | E tay...@sfsprinkler.com >> <mailto:tay...@sfsprinkler.com> >> >> From: Sprinklerforum [mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org >> <mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org>] On Behalf Of John >> Corcoran >> Sent: Friday, October 14, 2016 8:56 AM >> To: sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org >> <mailto:sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org> >> Subject: RE: Combustible Concealed Space-Area Reduction >> >> Some input from our tech team: >> >> While NFPA 13 "requires" that specially tested and listed sprinklers be used >> in combustible concealed spaces 36" and less, the special listed sprinklers >> are not required for spaces greater than 36". Standard coverage, QR >> sprinklers would be allowed, and the area reduction would also be allowed ( >> Light Hazard space?). Globe does offer a specially listed "IC" sprinkler for >> spaces to depths to 60" and the possibility of utilizing CPVC pipe ( See >> technical data sheet for specifics of when CPVC can be utilized). The >> calculation area is typically 1000 sq. ft. with draft curtains being >> required. >> >> Kevin Maughan >> Globe Sprinkler Corporation >> Cell - 401-234-3967 >> Sent from my iPhone >> >> And from Karl Wiegand: >> While the Tyco CC 3 also has the increased 60 inch vertical protection area >> listing; it should be noted that the Reliable KFR CCS is listed to be used >> in areas that are 36 inches in height or less. >> >> >> >> John Corcoran >> >> From: Sprinklerforum [mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org >> <mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org>] On Behalf Of Cliff >> Whitfield >> Sent: Thursday, October 13, 2016 6:12 PM >> To: sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org >> <mailto:sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org> >> Subject: RE: Combustible Concealed Space-Area Reduction >> >> I was thinking th
RE: Combustible Concealed Space-Area Reduction
Hi Roland, I’m a little confused (no big surprise). I just went back to look at the Globe IC and it appears to be listed for 60”. Am I missing something in your post or in their listing? Thanks, Cliff Whitfield From: Sprinklerforum [mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org] On Behalf Of Roland Huggins Sent: Friday, October 14, 2016 11:15 AM To: sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org Subject: Re: Combustible Concealed Space-Area Reduction you do not go to the floor below the ceiling in determining the applicable height. Below the ceiling is treated as a totally separate portion of the system with its own design basis. The only exception to this is when your ceiling is not solid like a metal grated mezzanine floor or your using the pipe schedule and serving both areas with the same BL. As for the CC sprinklers (and other mfgs), they are actually listed for NO MORE THAN 36 inches. This can be a problem when there is a long run and a 2 in 12 slope. The 2019 ed will allow it to protect the higher area as well. Roland Roland Huggins, PE - VP Engineering American Fire Sprinkler Assn. --- Fire Sprinklers Saves Lives Dallas, TX http://www.firesprinkler.org <http://www.firesprinkler.org/> On Oct 14, 2016, at 7:44 AM, Taylor Schumacher mailto:tay...@sfsprinkler.com> > wrote: Thanks for the responses. The concealed space is 4’ to 6’ in areas and is above a convention center, so if we count to the floor we exceed the 20’ max ceiling height. Wasn’t aware of the CC sprinklers allowing 60 inch spacing but draft stopping an area this big makes me cringe. We were able to respace the sprinklers and got the calculation to work. TAYLOR SCHUMACHER, CET Security Fire Sprinkler P 320.656.0847 | F 320.656.0312 | E <mailto:tay...@sfsprinkler.com> tay...@sfsprinkler.com From: Sprinklerforum [ <mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org> mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org] On Behalf Of John Corcoran Sent: Friday, October 14, 2016 8:56 AM To: <mailto:sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org> sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org Subject: RE: Combustible Concealed Space-Area Reduction Some input from our tech team: While NFPA 13 "requires" that specially tested and listed sprinklers be used in combustible concealed spaces 36" and less, the special listed sprinklers are not required for spaces greater than 36". Standard coverage, QR sprinklers would be allowed, and the area reduction would also be allowed ( Light Hazard space?). Globe does offer a specially listed "IC" sprinkler for spaces to depths to 60" and the possibility of utilizing CPVC pipe ( See technical data sheet for specifics of when CPVC can be utilized). The calculation area is typically 1000 sq. ft. with draft curtains being required. Kevin Maughan Globe Sprinkler Corporation Cell - 401-234-3967 Sent from my iPhone And from Karl Wiegand: While the Tyco CC 3 also has the increased 60 inch vertical protection area listing; it should be noted that the Reliable KFR CCS is listed to be used in areas that are 36 inches in height or less. John Corcoran From: Sprinklerforum [ <mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org> mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org] On Behalf Of Cliff Whitfield Sent: Thursday, October 13, 2016 6:12 PM To: <mailto:sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org> sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org Subject: RE: Combustible Concealed Space-Area Reduction I was thinking that the standard changed to 60” but I may be mistaken or on another planet. I don’t have 2016 in front of me. I know 2013 allows using SSU once it exceeds 36”. I’m not sure how the cost compares to QR SSU but I do know that there are sprinklers listed for CCS up to 60” deep with 16 x 16 spacing on the market now. Cliff Whitfield From: Sprinklerforum [ <mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org> mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org] On Behalf Of Travis Mack, SET Sent: Thursday, October 13, 2016 5:51 PM To: <mailto:sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org> sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org Subject: Re: Combustible Concealed Space-Area Reduction I think he is saying that his concealed space is >36" in depth. If so, then specially listed are not mandated. If so, I have always used the QR reduction for 10' ceiling height in those spaces provided it is a wet system. I have had some AHJs require I go to the floor to get my deck height. So, if you were 14' floor to floor with a 10' ceiling and 24" open web floor trusses, then you could use QR SSU to protect. A conservative approach would be to go with 14' for your QR reduction point. Travis Mack, SET MFP Design, LLC 2508 E Lodgepole Drive Gilbert, AZ 85298 480-5
Re: Combustible Concealed Space-Area Reduction
you do not go to the floor below the ceiling in determining the applicable height. Below the ceiling is treated as a totally separate portion of the system with its own design basis. The only exception to this is when your ceiling is not solid like a metal grated mezzanine floor or your using the pipe schedule and serving both areas with the same BL. As for the CC sprinklers (and other mfgs), they are actually listed for NO MORE THAN 36 inches. This can be a problem when there is a long run and a 2 in 12 slope. The 2019 ed will allow it to protect the higher area as well. Roland Roland Huggins, PE - VP Engineering American Fire Sprinkler Assn. --- Fire Sprinklers Saves Lives Dallas, TX http://www.firesprinkler.org <http://www.firesprinkler.org/> > On Oct 14, 2016, at 7:44 AM, Taylor Schumacher wrote: > > Thanks for the responses. The concealed space is 4’ to 6’ in areas and is > above a convention center, so if we count to the floor we exceed the 20’ max > ceiling height. Wasn’t aware of the CC sprinklers allowing 60 inch spacing > but draft stopping an area this big makes me cringe. We were able to respace > the sprinklers and got the calculation to work. > > TAYLOR SCHUMACHER, CET > Security Fire Sprinkler > P 320.656.0847 | F 320.656.0312 | E tay...@sfsprinkler.com > <mailto:tay...@sfsprinkler.com> > > From: Sprinklerforum [mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org > <mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org>] On Behalf Of John > Corcoran > Sent: Friday, October 14, 2016 8:56 AM > To: sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org > <mailto:sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org> > Subject: RE: Combustible Concealed Space-Area Reduction > > Some input from our tech team: > > While NFPA 13 "requires" that specially tested and listed sprinklers be used > in combustible concealed spaces 36" and less, the special listed sprinklers > are not required for spaces greater than 36". Standard coverage, QR > sprinklers would be allowed, and the area reduction would also be allowed ( > Light Hazard space?). Globe does offer a specially listed "IC" sprinkler for > spaces to depths to 60" and the possibility of utilizing CPVC pipe ( See > technical data sheet for specifics of when CPVC can be utilized). The > calculation area is typically 1000 sq. ft. with draft curtains being > required. > > Kevin Maughan > Globe Sprinkler Corporation > Cell - 401-234-3967 > Sent from my iPhone > > And from Karl Wiegand: > While the Tyco CC 3 also has the increased 60 inch vertical protection area > listing; it should be noted that the Reliable KFR CCS is listed to be used in > areas that are 36 inches in height or less. > > > > John Corcoran > > From: Sprinklerforum [mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org > <mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org>] On Behalf Of Cliff > Whitfield > Sent: Thursday, October 13, 2016 6:12 PM > To: sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org > <mailto:sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org> > Subject: RE: Combustible Concealed Space-Area Reduction > > I was thinking that the standard changed to 60” but I may be mistaken or on > another planet. I don’t have 2016 in front of me. I know 2013 allows using > SSU once it exceeds 36”. > > I’m not sure how the cost compares to QR SSU but I do know that there are > sprinklers listed for CCS up to 60” deep with 16 x 16 spacing on the market > now. > > Cliff Whitfield > > From: Sprinklerforum [mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org > <mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org>] On Behalf Of Travis > Mack, SET > Sent: Thursday, October 13, 2016 5:51 PM > To: sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org > <mailto:sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org> > Subject: Re: Combustible Concealed Space-Area Reduction > > I think he is saying that his concealed space is >36" in depth. If so, then > specially listed are not mandated. > > If so, I have always used the QR reduction for 10' ceiling height in those > spaces provided it is a wet system. I have had some AHJs require I go to the > floor to get my deck height. So, if you were 14' floor to floor with a 10' > ceiling and 24" open web floor trusses, then you could use QR SSU to protect. > A conservative approach would be to go with 14' for your QR reduction point. > > Travis Mack, SET > MFP Design, LLC > 2508 E Lodgepole Drive > Gilbert, AZ 85298 > 480-505-9271 > fax: 866-430-6107 > email:tm...@mfpdesign.com <mailto:email:tm...@mfpdesign.com> > > http://ww
RE: Combustible Concealed Space-Area Reduction
Thanks for the responses. The concealed space is 4' to 6' in areas and is above a convention center, so if we count to the floor we exceed the 20' max ceiling height. Wasn't aware of the CC sprinklers allowing 60 inch spacing but draft stopping an area this big makes me cringe. We were able to respace the sprinklers and got the calculation to work. TAYLOR SCHUMACHER, CET Security Fire Sprinkler P 320.656.0847 | F 320.656.0312 | E tay...@sfsprinkler.com From: Sprinklerforum [mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org] On Behalf Of John Corcoran Sent: Friday, October 14, 2016 8:56 AM To: sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org Subject: RE: Combustible Concealed Space-Area Reduction Some input from our tech team: While NFPA 13 "requires" that specially tested and listed sprinklers be used in combustible concealed spaces 36" and less, the special listed sprinklers are not required for spaces greater than 36". Standard coverage, QR sprinklers would be allowed, and the area reduction would also be allowed ( Light Hazard space?). Globe does offer a specially listed "IC" sprinkler for spaces to depths to 60" and the possibility of utilizing CPVC pipe ( See technical data sheet for specifics of when CPVC can be utilized). The calculation area is typically 1000 sq. ft. with draft curtains being required. Kevin Maughan Globe Sprinkler Corporation Cell - 401-234-3967 Sent from my iPhone And from Karl Wiegand: While the Tyco CC 3 also has the increased 60 inch vertical protection area listing; it should be noted that the Reliable KFR CCS is listed to be used in areas that are 36 inches in height or less. John Corcoran From: Sprinklerforum [mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org] On Behalf Of Cliff Whitfield Sent: Thursday, October 13, 2016 6:12 PM To: sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org<mailto:sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org> Subject: RE: Combustible Concealed Space-Area Reduction I was thinking that the standard changed to 60" but I may be mistaken or on another planet. I don't have 2016 in front of me. I know 2013 allows using SSU once it exceeds 36". I'm not sure how the cost compares to QR SSU but I do know that there are sprinklers listed for CCS up to 60" deep with 16 x 16 spacing on the market now. Cliff Whitfield From: Sprinklerforum [mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org] On Behalf Of Travis Mack, SET Sent: Thursday, October 13, 2016 5:51 PM To: sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org<mailto:sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org> Subject: Re: Combustible Concealed Space-Area Reduction I think he is saying that his concealed space is >36" in depth. If so, then specially listed are not mandated. If so, I have always used the QR reduction for 10' ceiling height in those spaces provided it is a wet system. I have had some AHJs require I go to the floor to get my deck height. So, if you were 14' floor to floor with a 10' ceiling and 24" open web floor trusses, then you could use QR SSU to protect. A conservative approach would be to go with 14' for your QR reduction point. Travis Mack, SET MFP Design, LLC 2508 E Lodgepole Drive Gilbert, AZ 85298 480-505-9271 fax: 866-430-6107 email:tm...@mfpdesign.com<mailto:email:tm...@mfpdesign.com> http://www.mfpdesign.com https://www.facebook.com/pages/MFP-Design-LLC/92218417692 Send large files to us via: https://www.hightail.com/u/MFPDesign LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/travismack On 10/13/2016 2:26 PM, Cliff Whitfield wrote: Taylor, I believe you will need to use Concealed Space Sprinklers for that area and will need to calc based on the manf data sheet. Cliff Whitfield, SET President Fire Design, Inc. From: Sprinklerforum [mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org] On Behalf Of Taylor Schumacher Sent: Thursday, October 13, 2016 4:55 PM To: sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org<mailto:sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org> Subject: Combustible Concealed Space-Area Reduction Good afternoon forum, I'm looking to apply the remote area reduction per 11.2.3.2.3.1 in NFPA 13 2010 to a floor truss space over 36" using quick response, standard spray sprinklers. Could anyone tell me if my assumptions are right? TAYLOR SCHUMACHER, CET Security Fire Sprinkler P 320.656.0847 | F 320.656.0312 | E tay...@sfsprinkler.com<mailto:tay...@sfsprinkler.com> [Image removed by sender. Avast logo]<https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=emailclient> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. www.avast.com<https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=emailclient> __
RE: Combustible Concealed Space-Area Reduction
Some input from our tech team: While NFPA 13 "requires" that specially tested and listed sprinklers be used in combustible concealed spaces 36" and less, the special listed sprinklers are not required for spaces greater than 36". Standard coverage, QR sprinklers would be allowed, and the area reduction would also be allowed ( Light Hazard space?). Globe does offer a specially listed "IC" sprinkler for spaces to depths to 60" and the possibility of utilizing CPVC pipe ( See technical data sheet for specifics of when CPVC can be utilized). The calculation area is typically 1000 sq. ft. with draft curtains being required. Kevin Maughan Globe Sprinkler Corporation Cell - 401-234-3967 Sent from my iPhone And from Karl Wiegand: While the Tyco CC 3 also has the increased 60 inch vertical protection area listing; it should be noted that the Reliable KFR CCS is listed to be used in areas that are 36 inches in height or less. John Corcoran From: Sprinklerforum [mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org] On Behalf Of Cliff Whitfield Sent: Thursday, October 13, 2016 6:12 PM To: sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org Subject: RE: Combustible Concealed Space-Area Reduction I was thinking that the standard changed to 60" but I may be mistaken or on another planet. I don't have 2016 in front of me. I know 2013 allows using SSU once it exceeds 36". I'm not sure how the cost compares to QR SSU but I do know that there are sprinklers listed for CCS up to 60" deep with 16 x 16 spacing on the market now. Cliff Whitfield From: Sprinklerforum [mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org] On Behalf Of Travis Mack, SET Sent: Thursday, October 13, 2016 5:51 PM To: sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org<mailto:sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org> Subject: Re: Combustible Concealed Space-Area Reduction I think he is saying that his concealed space is >36" in depth. If so, then specially listed are not mandated. If so, I have always used the QR reduction for 10' ceiling height in those spaces provided it is a wet system. I have had some AHJs require I go to the floor to get my deck height. So, if you were 14' floor to floor with a 10' ceiling and 24" open web floor trusses, then you could use QR SSU to protect. A conservative approach would be to go with 14' for your QR reduction point. Travis Mack, SET MFP Design, LLC 2508 E Lodgepole Drive Gilbert, AZ 85298 480-505-9271 fax: 866-430-6107 email:tm...@mfpdesign.com<mailto:email:tm...@mfpdesign.com> http://www.mfpdesign.com https://www.facebook.com/pages/MFP-Design-LLC/92218417692 Send large files to us via: https://www.hightail.com/u/MFPDesign LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/travismack On 10/13/2016 2:26 PM, Cliff Whitfield wrote: Taylor, I believe you will need to use Concealed Space Sprinklers for that area and will need to calc based on the manf data sheet. Cliff Whitfield, SET President Fire Design, Inc. From: Sprinklerforum [mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org] On Behalf Of Taylor Schumacher Sent: Thursday, October 13, 2016 4:55 PM To: sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org<mailto:sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org> Subject: Combustible Concealed Space-Area Reduction Good afternoon forum, I'm looking to apply the remote area reduction per 11.2.3.2.3.1 in NFPA 13 2010 to a floor truss space over 36" using quick response, standard spray sprinklers. Could anyone tell me if my assumptions are right? TAYLOR SCHUMACHER, CET Security Fire Sprinkler P 320.656.0847 | F 320.656.0312 | E tay...@sfsprinkler.com<mailto:tay...@sfsprinkler.com> [Image removed by sender. Avast logo]<https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=emailclient> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. www.avast.com<https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=emailclient> ___ Sprinklerforum mailing list Sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org<mailto:Sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org> http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org [Avast logo]<https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=emailclient> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. www.avast.com<https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=emailclient> ___ Sprinklerforum mailing list Sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org
Re: Combustible Concealed Space-Area Reduction
Cliff, Code didn't change they are still only required in spaces 36" and less, but with the expanded listings for the newer CC heads from Reliable, Tyco, and Globe you can use them as EC heads in some cases for spaces up to 60" deep, which can come in handy. Benjamin Young On Thu, Oct 13, 2016 at 6:11 PM, Cliff Whitfield wrote: > I was thinking that the standard changed to 60” but I may be mistaken or > on another planet. I don’t have 2016 in front of me. I know 2013 allows > using SSU once it exceeds 36”. > > > > I’m not sure how the cost compares to QR SSU but I do know that there are > sprinklers listed for CCS up to 60” deep with 16 x 16 spacing on the market > now. > > > > Cliff Whitfield > > > > *From:* Sprinklerforum [mailto:sprinklerforum-bounces@lists.firesprinkler. > org] *On Behalf Of *Travis Mack, SET > *Sent:* Thursday, October 13, 2016 5:51 PM > *To:* sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org > *Subject:* Re: Combustible Concealed Space-Area Reduction > > > > I think he is saying that his concealed space is >36" in depth. If so, > then specially listed are not mandated. > > If so, I have always used the QR reduction for 10' ceiling height in those > spaces provided it is a wet system. I have had some AHJs require I go to > the floor to get my deck height. So, if you were 14' floor to floor with a > 10' ceiling and 24" open web floor trusses, then you could use QR SSU to > protect. A conservative approach would be to go with 14' for your QR > reduction point. > > Travis Mack, SET > > MFP Design, LLC > > 2508 E Lodgepole Drive > > Gilbert, AZ 85298 > > 480-505-9271 > > fax: 866-430-6107 > > email:tm...@mfpdesign.com > > > > http://www.mfpdesign.com > > https://www.facebook.com/pages/MFP-Design-LLC/92218417692 > > Send large files to us via: https://www.hightail.com/u/MFPDesign > > LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/travismack > > On 10/13/2016 2:26 PM, Cliff Whitfield wrote: > > Taylor, > > > > I believe you will need to use Concealed Space Sprinklers for that area > and will need to calc based on the manf data sheet. > > > > Cliff Whitfield, SET > > President > > Fire Design, Inc. > > > > > > *From:* Sprinklerforum [mailto:sprinklerforum-bounces@lists.firesprinkler. > org ] *On Behalf Of *Taylor > Schumacher > *Sent:* Thursday, October 13, 2016 4:55 PM > *To:* sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org > *Subject:* Combustible Concealed Space-Area Reduction > > > > Good afternoon forum, > > > > I’m looking to apply the remote area reduction per 11.2.3.2.3.1 in NFPA 13 > 2010 to a floor truss space over 36” using quick response, standard spray > sprinklers. > > > > Could anyone tell me if my assumptions are right? > > > > *TAYLOR SCHUMACHER, CET* > > Security Fire Sprinkler > > *P *320.656.0847 | *F * 320.656.0312 | *E *tay...@sfsprinkler.com > > > > > -- > > [image: Image removed by sender. Avast logo] > <https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=emailclient> > > This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. > www.avast.com > <https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=emailclient> > > > > > > ___ > > Sprinklerforum mailing list > > Sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org > > http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org > > > > > -- > [image: Avast logo] > <https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=emailclient> > > This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. > www.avast.com > <https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=emailclient> > > > ___ > Sprinklerforum mailing list > Sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org > http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler. > org > > ___ Sprinklerforum mailing list Sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org
RE: Combustible Concealed Space-Area Reduction
I was thinking that the standard changed to 60" but I may be mistaken or on another planet. I don't have 2016 in front of me. I know 2013 allows using SSU once it exceeds 36". I'm not sure how the cost compares to QR SSU but I do know that there are sprinklers listed for CCS up to 60" deep with 16 x 16 spacing on the market now. Cliff Whitfield From: Sprinklerforum [mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org] On Behalf Of Travis Mack, SET Sent: Thursday, October 13, 2016 5:51 PM To: sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org Subject: Re: Combustible Concealed Space-Area Reduction I think he is saying that his concealed space is >36" in depth. If so, then specially listed are not mandated. If so, I have always used the QR reduction for 10' ceiling height in those spaces provided it is a wet system. I have had some AHJs require I go to the floor to get my deck height. So, if you were 14' floor to floor with a 10' ceiling and 24" open web floor trusses, then you could use QR SSU to protect. A conservative approach would be to go with 14' for your QR reduction point. Travis Mack, SET MFP Design, LLC 2508 E Lodgepole Drive Gilbert, AZ 85298 480-505-9271 fax: 866-430-6107 email:tm...@mfpdesign.com <mailto:email:tm...@mfpdesign.com> http://www.mfpdesign.com https://www.facebook.com/pages/MFP-Design-LLC/92218417692 Send large files to us via: https://www.hightail.com/u/MFPDesign LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/travismack On 10/13/2016 2:26 PM, Cliff Whitfield wrote: Taylor, I believe you will need to use Concealed Space Sprinklers for that area and will need to calc based on the manf data sheet. Cliff Whitfield, SET President Fire Design, Inc. From: Sprinklerforum [mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org] On Behalf Of Taylor Schumacher Sent: Thursday, October 13, 2016 4:55 PM To: sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org <mailto:sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org> Subject: Combustible Concealed Space-Area Reduction Good afternoon forum, I'm looking to apply the remote area reduction per 11.2.3.2.3.1 in NFPA 13 2010 to a floor truss space over 36" using quick response, standard spray sprinklers. Could anyone tell me if my assumptions are right? TAYLOR SCHUMACHER, CET Security Fire Sprinkler P 320.656.0847 | F 320.656.0312 | E tay...@sfsprinkler.com <mailto:tay...@sfsprinkler.com> _ <https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campai gn=sig-email&utm_content=emailclient> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. www.avast.com <https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campai gn=sig-email&utm_content=emailclient> ___ Sprinklerforum mailing list Sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org <mailto:Sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org> http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus ___ Sprinklerforum mailing list Sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org
Re: Combustible Concealed Space-Area Reduction
I think he is saying that his concealed space is >36" in depth. If so, then specially listed are not mandated. If so, I have always used the QR reduction for 10' ceiling height in those spaces provided it is a wet system. I have had some AHJs require I go to the floor to get my deck height. So, if you were 14' floor to floor with a 10' ceiling and 24" open web floor trusses, then you could use QR SSU to protect. A conservative approach would be to go with 14' for your QR reduction point. Travis Mack, SET MFP Design, LLC 2508 E Lodgepole Drive Gilbert, AZ 85298 480-505-9271 fax: 866-430-6107 email:tm...@mfpdesign.com http://www.mfpdesign.com https://www.facebook.com/pages/MFP-Design-LLC/92218417692 Send large files to us via: https://www.hightail.com/u/MFPDesign LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/travismack On 10/13/2016 2:26 PM, Cliff Whitfield wrote: Taylor, I believe you will need to use Concealed Space Sprinklers for that area and will need to calc based on the manf data sheet. Cliff Whitfield, SET President Fire Design, Inc. *From:* Sprinklerforum [mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org] *On Behalf Of *Taylor Schumacher *Sent:* Thursday, October 13, 2016 4:55 PM *To:* sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org *Subject:* Combustible Concealed Space-Area Reduction Good afternoon forum, I’m looking to apply the remote area reduction per 11.2.3.2.3.1 in NFPA 13 2010 to a floor truss space over 36” using quick response, standard spray sprinklers. Could anyone tell me if my assumptions are right? *TAYLOR SCHUMACHER, CET* Security Fire Sprinkler *P *320.656.0847 | *F * 320.656.0312 | *E *tay...@sfsprinkler.com <mailto:tay...@sfsprinkler.com> Avast logo <https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=emailclient> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. www.avast.com <https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=emailclient> ___ Sprinklerforum mailing list Sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org ___ Sprinklerforum mailing list Sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org
RE: Combustible Concealed Space-Area Reduction
Taylor, I believe you will need to use Concealed Space Sprinklers for that area and will need to calc based on the manf data sheet. Cliff Whitfield, SET President Fire Design, Inc. From: Sprinklerforum [mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org] On Behalf Of Taylor Schumacher Sent: Thursday, October 13, 2016 4:55 PM To: sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org Subject: Combustible Concealed Space-Area Reduction Good afternoon forum, I'm looking to apply the remote area reduction per 11.2.3.2.3.1 in NFPA 13 2010 to a floor truss space over 36" using quick response, standard spray sprinklers. Could anyone tell me if my assumptions are right? TAYLOR SCHUMACHER, CET Security Fire Sprinkler P 320.656.0847 | F 320.656.0312 | E tay...@sfsprinkler.com <mailto:tay...@sfsprinkler.com> --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus ___ Sprinklerforum mailing list Sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org
Combustible Concealed Space-Area Reduction
Good afternoon forum, I'm looking to apply the remote area reduction per 11.2.3.2.3.1 in NFPA 13 2010 to a floor truss space over 36" using quick response, standard spray sprinklers. Could anyone tell me if my assumptions are right? TAYLOR SCHUMACHER, CET Security Fire Sprinkler P 320.656.0847 | F 320.656.0312 | E tay...@sfsprinkler.com ___ Sprinklerforum mailing list Sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org