Re: The State of the SeaMonkey Union!

[EE]

Ray_Net wrote:

Would like to try DuckDuckGo, but the Release Notes just say to go to
the Sidebar. O.K., did that but not clear how to try DDG. Yes, due to
the Bug there is no way to change the default browser. What do I do?
Larry S.

Type:  TEST in the url barand DDG opens in a SM tab.


It is whatever search engine you have set in Preferences > Browser > 
Internet Search.



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Re: The State of the SeaMonkey Union!

[Ray_Net]

Ray_Net wrote on 31-05-17 10:58:

Paul B. Gallagher wrote on 31-05-17 01:25:

Ray_Net wrote:


Larry S. wrote on 30-05-17 22:59:

Would like to try DuckDuckGo, but the Release Notes just say to go to
the Sidebar. O.K., did that but not clear how to try DDG. Yes, due to
the Bug there is no way to change the default browser. What do I do?
Larry S.

Type:  TEST in the url barand DDG opens in a SM tab.


Only if DDG is already your default search engine.

For more details, see my other post a moment ago in this thread.


So he need first to go:
- Preferences
- Browser
- Internet Search
- Default Search Engine

If it's not there, he can click on "Manage Search Engines"
then click on "Get more search engines..."
and choice DDG in the list.

Sorry, I had not noticed your full explanation :-)
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Re: The State of the SeaMonkey Union!

[Ray_Net]

Paul B. Gallagher wrote on 31-05-17 01:25:

Ray_Net wrote:


Larry S. wrote on 30-05-17 22:59:

Would like to try DuckDuckGo, but the Release Notes just say to go to
the Sidebar. O.K., did that but not clear how to try DDG. Yes, due to
the Bug there is no way to change the default browser. What do I do?
Larry S.

Type:  TEST in the url barand DDG opens in a SM tab.


Only if DDG is already your default search engine.

For more details, see my other post a moment ago in this thread.


So he need first to go:
- Preferences
- Browser
- Internet Search
- Default Search Engine

If it's not there, he can click on "Manage Search Engines"
then click on "Get more search engines..."
and choice DDG in the list.
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Re: The State of the SeaMonkey Union!

[Larry S.]

Paul B. Gallagher wrote:

Larry S. wrote:


Would like to try DuckDuckGo, but the Release Notes just say to go to
the Sidebar. O.K., did that but not clear how to try DDG. Yes, due to
the Bug there is no way to change the default browser. What do I do?


If you just want to test-drive it, go to duckduckgo.com.

If you want to make it your default search engine:

1) Go to Edit | Preferences | Browser | Internet Search and you'll see
"Default Search Engine" above a button with a down-arrow on the right,
which shows your current default search engine. Pull down the arrow to
reveal your options. If DuckDuckGo is listed, choose it, click "OK," and
you're done, that'll be your default search engine from now on.

2) If it's not in the pull-down list, it's not installed. Click "Manage
Search Engines" and then "Get more search engines...," which will take
you to .
About halfway down, you'll see:

DuckDuckGo (HTTPS / SSL)
DuckDuckGo is the search engine that doesn't track you.
We also have smarter answers and less clutter. This
extension adds DuckDuckGo (HTTPS / SSL version) to the
search bar. For more features, see the DuckDuckGo Plus
add-on. Enjoy!

3) If you mouse over that, you'll see
+ Add to
Seamonkey

The rest is left as an exercise to the reader.

Thank you!Probably should have thought of that, but for some reason my 
thinker was not in service at the moment. You suggestion (1), above, 
works very well, and seems that if I don't like DDG I can turn back. 
(Google maps?)


Very helpful, as usual.
Larry S.
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Re: The State of the SeaMonkey Union!

[Paul B. Gallagher]

Ray_Net wrote:


Larry S. wrote on 30-05-17 22:59:

Would like to try DuckDuckGo, but the Release Notes just say to go to
the Sidebar. O.K., did that but not clear how to try DDG. Yes, due to
the Bug there is no way to change the default browser. What do I do?
Larry S.

Type:  TEST in the url barand DDG opens in a SM tab.


Only if DDG is already your default search engine.

For more details, see my other post a moment ago in this thread.

--
War doesn't determine who's right, just who's left.
--
Paul B. Gallagher

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Re: The State of the SeaMonkey Union!

[Paul B. Gallagher]

Larry S. wrote:


Would like to try DuckDuckGo, but the Release Notes just say to go to
the Sidebar. O.K., did that but not clear how to try DDG. Yes, due to
the Bug there is no way to change the default browser. What do I do?


If you just want to test-drive it, go to duckduckgo.com.

If you want to make it your default search engine:

1) Go to Edit | Preferences | Browser | Internet Search and you'll see 
"Default Search Engine" above a button with a down-arrow on the right, 
which shows your current default search engine. Pull down the arrow to 
reveal your options. If DuckDuckGo is listed, choose it, click "OK," and 
you're done, that'll be your default search engine from now on.


2) If it's not in the pull-down list, it's not installed. Click "Manage 
Search Engines" and then "Get more search engines...," which will take 
you to . 
About halfway down, you'll see:


DuckDuckGo (HTTPS / SSL)
DuckDuckGo is the search engine that doesn't track you.
We also have smarter answers and less clutter. This
extension adds DuckDuckGo (HTTPS / SSL version) to the
search bar. For more features, see the DuckDuckGo Plus
add-on. Enjoy!

3) If you mouse over that, you'll see
+ Add to
Seamonkey

The rest is left as an exercise to the reader.

--
War doesn't determine who's right, just who's left.
--
Paul B. Gallagher
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Re: The State of the SeaMonkey Union!

[Ray_Net]

Larry S. wrote on 30-05-17 22:59:

Frank-Rainer Grahl wrote:

Greetings,

I am just relaying the following message for the SeaMonkey Council. It
is not on the web page but it is official. If you have any questions you
can either ask here or use the provided web address.

Have fun
FRG


+++ snip +++

Hello fellow users and supporters of the SeaMonkey suite.

The important part first: SeaMonkey is alive and we do not plan to
discontinue it. But in continuing to deliver the best and only suite
based on the Mozilla Gecko web engine, we need your help.

Lets first start where we are.

SeaMonkey 2.46 was released in late December after struggling for months
with infrastructure and build issues. While still using the Mozilla
infrastructure, we are mostly on our own here. We plan to release a
final 2.48 based on the level of Firefox 51 soon. Again this  is late
due to infrastructure and build issues, but not so much as 2.46. Being
based on Firefox 51 means that security patches are again not up to par
with current Firefox. Believe us, we dislike this as much as you do.
The SeaMonkey project is entirely driven by volunteers working on it in
their free time. The current members of the core team (count up to 7)
are committed but, with all the changes, are getting slowly overwhelmed.
This means bugs do not get fixed as fast as we would like. With an aging
infrastructure becoming more and more abandoned by Mozilla, due to
switching Firefox building to the cloud, releasing builds does not
become easier. It also means that if even one of the current key people
quits, the project is in danger of becoming un-maintainable which is
even worse.
Also keeping up with Firefox is becoming difficult at best. Mozilla
plans to discontinue classic extensions and themes with Firefox 57 which
is right around the corner. XUL, one of the key technologies of
SeaMonkey, is also on the chopping block and will be discontinued in the
near future. The replacement technologies, based on modern web
standards, are immature and still under constant development. In the
end, an almost complete rewrite of the current program will probably be
needed. If it weren't for our friends from the Thunderbird project, we
would now have even bigger problems.
The good news is that financially we are a little better off than last
year. DuckDuckGo is now the default search engine of SeaMonkey. Every
time you use it for searches in SeaMonkey we get paid. For the
conspiracy seeking people out there:) Not being able to easily set the
search engine in 2.46 to another provider was a genuine bug with a
workaround documented in the release notes from day 1. It has now been
fixed.

What we plan:

After releasing SeaMonkey 2.48 we will switch to the Firefox 52 ESR
source code for 2.49.x releases. This means that the code base is more
or less frozen for a few release cycles and only security updates and
bug fixes will be in the releases.

The infrastructure issue has been discussed. While critical, there are
no final plans yet (also thanks to lack of manpower). Thunderbird is in
the same boat and we hope to work out something together. If worst comes
to worst, we could ask our team member Adrian Kalla to produce our
regular builds. This had been discussed earlier. It was dismissed, for
now, as no crash symbols for builds would be available on the Mozilla
servers.

Switching to ESR means we can work on bugs in the current tree for a
while longer without having to fear that they are carried over into a
release. They need to be fixed for the next ESR of course.

The most critical issue is to support web extensions in one of the next
releases. It is unclear how long we will be able to support classic
extensions.

There are a number of Gecko Forks in the wild. We do not plan to switch
over to one of them as the basis for SeaMonkey. We think that they
currently do not have enough developers themselves to cope with the
changes Mozilla plans. Web technologies are also evolving all the time
and we fear that they are not able to keep up.

Also, we are not planning to support any abandoned stuff like classic
extensions and NPAPI plugins on our own. We will try as long as
possible. But when they are gone, they are gone. The current developer
base is much too small to do our own fork.

Based on how successful Mozilla is, or if one of the forks gain ground,
this might change in the future.

What we need:

Setting up our own infrastructure, potentially in conjunction with
Thunderbird, will cost. If you feel you can contribute towards future
releases in this way, please consider donating:
https://www.seamonkey-project.org/donate/

But what we need even more is people to help out. Even if you are not a
developer, you can help. For example, writing a document such as this
takes time. Also, maintaining a website is not done by staring at it all
day.

So if you want to help, these project areas are looking for a few good
contributors:

- Development. Most code is either JavaScript or XML/CSS 

Re: The State of the SeaMonkey Union!

[Larry S.]

Frank-Rainer Grahl wrote:

Greetings,

I am just relaying the following message for the SeaMonkey Council. It
is not on the web page but it is official. If you have any questions you
can either ask here or use the provided web address.

Have fun
FRG


+++ snip +++

Hello fellow users and supporters of the SeaMonkey suite.

The important part first: SeaMonkey is alive and we do not plan to
discontinue it. But in continuing to deliver the best and only suite
based on the Mozilla Gecko web engine, we need your help.

Lets first start where we are.

SeaMonkey 2.46 was released in late December after struggling for months
with infrastructure and build issues. While still using the Mozilla
infrastructure, we are mostly on our own here. We plan to release a
final 2.48 based on the level of Firefox 51 soon. Again this  is late
due to infrastructure and build issues, but not so much as 2.46. Being
based on Firefox 51 means that security patches are again not up to par
with current Firefox. Believe us, we dislike this as much as you do.
The SeaMonkey project is entirely driven by volunteers working on it in
their free time. The current members of the core team (count up to 7)
are committed but, with all the changes, are getting slowly overwhelmed.
This means bugs do not get fixed as fast as we would like. With an aging
infrastructure becoming more and more abandoned by Mozilla, due to
switching Firefox building to the cloud, releasing builds does not
become easier. It also means that if even one of the current key people
quits, the project is in danger of becoming un-maintainable which is
even worse.
Also keeping up with Firefox is becoming difficult at best. Mozilla
plans to discontinue classic extensions and themes with Firefox 57 which
is right around the corner. XUL, one of the key technologies of
SeaMonkey, is also on the chopping block and will be discontinued in the
near future. The replacement technologies, based on modern web
standards, are immature and still under constant development. In the
end, an almost complete rewrite of the current program will probably be
needed. If it weren't for our friends from the Thunderbird project, we
would now have even bigger problems.
The good news is that financially we are a little better off than last
year. DuckDuckGo is now the default search engine of SeaMonkey. Every
time you use it for searches in SeaMonkey we get paid. For the
conspiracy seeking people out there:) Not being able to easily set the
search engine in 2.46 to another provider was a genuine bug with a
workaround documented in the release notes from day 1. It has now been
fixed.

What we plan:

After releasing SeaMonkey 2.48 we will switch to the Firefox 52 ESR
source code for 2.49.x releases. This means that the code base is more
or less frozen for a few release cycles and only security updates and
bug fixes will be in the releases.

The infrastructure issue has been discussed. While critical, there are
no final plans yet (also thanks to lack of manpower). Thunderbird is in
the same boat and we hope to work out something together. If worst comes
to worst, we could ask our team member Adrian Kalla to produce our
regular builds. This had been discussed earlier. It was dismissed, for
now, as no crash symbols for builds would be available on the Mozilla
servers.

Switching to ESR means we can work on bugs in the current tree for a
while longer without having to fear that they are carried over into a
release. They need to be fixed for the next ESR of course.

The most critical issue is to support web extensions in one of the next
releases. It is unclear how long we will be able to support classic
extensions.

There are a number of Gecko Forks in the wild. We do not plan to switch
over to one of them as the basis for SeaMonkey. We think that they
currently do not have enough developers themselves to cope with the
changes Mozilla plans. Web technologies are also evolving all the time
and we fear that they are not able to keep up.

Also, we are not planning to support any abandoned stuff like classic
extensions and NPAPI plugins on our own. We will try as long as
possible. But when they are gone, they are gone. The current developer
base is much too small to do our own fork.

Based on how successful Mozilla is, or if one of the forks gain ground,
this might change in the future.

What we need:

Setting up our own infrastructure, potentially in conjunction with
Thunderbird, will cost. If you feel you can contribute towards future
releases in this way, please consider donating:
https://www.seamonkey-project.org/donate/

But what we need even more is people to help out. Even if you are not a
developer, you can help. For example, writing a document such as this
takes time. Also, maintaining a website is not done by staring at it all
day.

So if you want to help, these project areas are looking for a few good
contributors:

- Development. Most code is either JavaScript or XML/CSS mixed with C++
and Mozilla 

Re: The State of the SeaMonkey Union! - Success of request for more help ❔

[Frank-Rainer Grahl]

I think it was a good start.

I can only speak for me. I really didn't expect any great changes or new 
developers falling out of the blue sky and starting to produce patches. But 
some people offered to help and started with installing a dev environment. 
Some also offered help for doing graphics works. We already have some new 
higher quality OSX icons which are not yet in the tree but in a bug at least. 
It will take a few months to see if some lasting good comes out if it. 
Learning curve is steep at first.


Generally donations are up for which we thank everyone. The council is 
currently evaluating how to start spending money so that it does the most good 
for SeaMonkey. No final plans. Among the current ideas are infrastucture, some 
test hardware (don't worry no high end stuff for free for everyone 
involved), signing keys and bounties. Just ideas now. If anyone has another 
idea let us know.


FRG

Rainer Bielefeld wrote:

Hi Frank-Rainer, hi all,

do we already have some results like
- Users who started to contribute some more regularly?
- success stories like
   -- SeaMonkey now is in the Linux xyz software repository,
  user abc will maintain ... .

If yes that should be published here or in one of the blogs.

CU

Rainer


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Re: The State of the SeaMonkey Union!

[njoracle]

Frank-Rainer Grahl wrote:
> Might be a Paypal thing. Two years ago I was able to send USD directly from a 
> Euro account. Since
> then they changed the website and process so much to make it more customer 
> "friendly" and
> automatically convert currencies now. Needless to say this was only done to 
> fill their pockets
> because the exchange rate was/is way off and more what your credit card 
> provider would charge you.
> That said the SeaMonkey account is in Euros and unless you plan to donate 
> huge sums it doesn't
> matter. It needs to be converted at one end. Currently just add about 9% to 
> the Euro value and you
> have USD value or more clear 1 EUR = 1.09 USD. With Paypals rate conversion 
> it is probably 1.04 or so.
> 
> FRG

The default currency is used for the Paypal account of the person who setup the 
page and in this
case it is Euros. However, there is a Paypal option that allows the default 
currency to be changed
to whatever you choose. It is located in the Paypal instructions at "To change 
the default currency,
click Currency and select a different currency." Another option might be to 
have two Donate buttons:
one designated as Euros and the other designated as Dollars.

Arnie G

> Arnie Goetchius wrote:
>> Frank-Rainer Grahl wrote:
>>> Are you unable to change the currency?
>>>
>>> FRG
>>
>> No, it stays in Euros. If I click on the Paypal logo shown on the website
>> account using my US Paypal credentials, it will recognize me and accept a
>> donation but only in euros. It then converts it from euros to dollars. 
>> However,
>> I cannot enter dollars directly. Too bad they can't fix that.
>>
>>>
>>> Arnie Goetchius wrote:
 Frank-Rainer Grahl wrote:
> It should. What is the error message?

 https://www.seamonkey-project.org/donate/

 is for Europe and Euros. Where is the one for the US and dollars?

>
> FRG
>
> Arnie Goetchius wrote:
>> Frank-Rainer Grahl wrote:
>>> If you are in the EU a SEPA transfer in Euros is the best and will cost 
>>> the
>>> recipient and you nothing or next to nothing. Otherwise the charges for 
>>> the
>>> transfer may be higher that the sum transfered.
>>>
>>> FRG
>>
>> I/'m in the US and there appears to be no way to make a donation to
>> Seamonkey by
>> any means including Paypal, Credit card, etc. Why doesn't Seamonkey 
>> accept
>> donations from the US?

>>>
>>
> 

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Re: The State of the SeaMonkey Union!

[chicagofan]

Frank-Rainer Grahl wrote:
The DuckDuckGo deal was only recently finalized around the time 2.46 
came out.


Thanks for your support
FRG

Ed Mullen wrote:
On 5/5/17 at 2:49 PM, Pat Connors's prodigious digits fired off with 
great aplomb:


Setting up our own infrastructure, potentially in conjunction with 
Thunderbird, will cost. If you feel you can contribute towards 
future releases in this way, please consider donating:

https://www.seamonkey-project.org/donate/
I am trying to donate and I get the British Paypal which does not 
give option for dollars.  When I go to the US version, it does not 
recognize SeaMonkey.  Anyone have a good link for the US version of 
Seamonkey Paypal?


PS  All these years of using SeaMonkey, I never knew about them get 
money when we use DuckDuckGo for our search engine. Thanks for 
letting us know, I am now using it and find it as good as Google.




Yeah, ditto.  I changed from Google.  Hey, a few sheckles here ...


Thanks everyone for the info.  I changed to DuckDuckGo yesterday and 
it's working fine.

bj
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Re: The State of the SeaMonkey Union!

[Frank-Rainer Grahl]

Might be a Paypal thing. Two years ago I was able to send USD directly from a 
Euro account. Since then they changed the website and process so much to make 
it more customer "friendly" and automatically convert currencies now. Needless 
to say this was only done to fill their pockets because the exchange rate 
was/is way off and more what your credit card provider would charge you.
That said the SeaMonkey account is in Euros and unless you plan to donate huge 
sums it doesn't matter. It needs to be converted at one end. Currently just 
add about 9% to the Euro value and you have USD value or more clear 1 EUR = 
1.09 USD. With Paypals rate conversion it is probably 1.04 or so.


FRG

Arnie Goetchius wrote:

Frank-Rainer Grahl wrote:

Are you unable to change the currency?

FRG


No, it stays in Euros. If I click on the Paypal logo shown on the website
account using my US Paypal credentials, it will recognize me and accept a
donation but only in euros. It then converts it from euros to dollars. However,
I cannot enter dollars directly. Too bad they can't fix that.



Arnie Goetchius wrote:

Frank-Rainer Grahl wrote:

It should. What is the error message?


https://www.seamonkey-project.org/donate/

is for Europe and Euros. Where is the one for the US and dollars?



FRG

Arnie Goetchius wrote:

Frank-Rainer Grahl wrote:

If you are in the EU a SEPA transfer in Euros is the best and will cost the
recipient and you nothing or next to nothing. Otherwise the charges for the
transfer may be higher that the sum transfered.

FRG


I/'m in the US and there appears to be no way to make a donation to
Seamonkey by
any means including Paypal, Credit card, etc. Why doesn't Seamonkey accept
donations from the US?








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Re: The State of the SeaMonkey Union!

[Lemuel Johnson]

On 5/7/2017 3:01 PM, Arnie Goetchius wrote:

Frank-Rainer Grahl wrote:

Are you unable to change the currency?

FRG

No, it stays in Euros. If I click on the Paypal logo shown on the website
account using my US Paypal credentials, it will recognize me and accept a
donation but only in euros. It then converts it from euros to dollars. However,
I cannot enter dollars directly. Too bad they can't fix that.


And, if you select to contribute through PayPal with a credit card for 
the "international purchase" you receive the stern warning:
/"//If you use a credit card to pay for your international purchase, 
your card issuer might charge you a fee (typically up to 3% of your 
purchase amount). That's about $3.41 USD for this purchase. Use your 
bank account and you won't have to pay this fee."/


Lemuel Johnson
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Re: The State of the SeaMonkey Union!

[Arnie Goetchius]

Frank-Rainer Grahl wrote:
> Are you unable to change the currency?
> 
> FRG

No, it stays in Euros. If I click on the Paypal logo shown on the website
account using my US Paypal credentials, it will recognize me and accept a
donation but only in euros. It then converts it from euros to dollars. However,
I cannot enter dollars directly. Too bad they can't fix that.

> 
> Arnie Goetchius wrote:
>> Frank-Rainer Grahl wrote:
>>> It should. What is the error message?
>>
>> https://www.seamonkey-project.org/donate/
>>
>> is for Europe and Euros. Where is the one for the US and dollars?
>>
>>>
>>> FRG
>>>
>>> Arnie Goetchius wrote:
 Frank-Rainer Grahl wrote:
> If you are in the EU a SEPA transfer in Euros is the best and will cost 
> the
> recipient and you nothing or next to nothing. Otherwise the charges for 
> the
> transfer may be higher that the sum transfered.
>
> FRG

 I/'m in the US and there appears to be no way to make a donation to
 Seamonkey by
 any means including Paypal, Credit card, etc. Why doesn't Seamonkey accept
 donations from the US?
>>
> 

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Re: The State of the SeaMonkey Union!

[Frank-Rainer Grahl]

Are you unable to change the currency?

FRG


Arnie Goetchius wrote:

Frank-Rainer Grahl wrote:

It should. What is the error message?


https://www.seamonkey-project.org/donate/

is for Europe and Euros. Where is the one for the US and dollars?



FRG

Arnie Goetchius wrote:

Frank-Rainer Grahl wrote:

If you are in the EU a SEPA transfer in Euros is the best and will cost the
recipient and you nothing or next to nothing. Otherwise the charges for the
transfer may be higher that the sum transfered.

FRG


I/'m in the US and there appears to be no way to make a donation to Seamonkey by
any means including Paypal, Credit card, etc. Why doesn't Seamonkey accept
donations from the US?




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Re: The State of the SeaMonkey Union!

[Arnie Goetchius]

Frank-Rainer Grahl wrote:
> It should. What is the error message?

https://www.seamonkey-project.org/donate/

is for Europe and Euros. Where is the one for the US and dollars?

> 
> FRG
> 
> Arnie Goetchius wrote:
>> Frank-Rainer Grahl wrote:
>>> If you are in the EU a SEPA transfer in Euros is the best and will cost the
>>> recipient and you nothing or next to nothing. Otherwise the charges for the
>>> transfer may be higher that the sum transfered.
>>>
>>> FRG
>>
>> I/'m in the US and there appears to be no way to make a donation to 
>> Seamonkey by
>> any means including Paypal, Credit card, etc. Why doesn't Seamonkey accept
>> donations from the US?

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Re: The State of the SeaMonkey Union!

[Frank-Rainer Grahl]

Thanks.

FRG

Stanimir Stamenkov wrote:

Sun, 7 May 2017 15:04:54 +0200, /Frank-Rainer Grahl/:

If you are in the EU a SEPA transfer in Euros is the best and will cost the 
recipient and you nothing or next to nothing. Otherwise the charges for the 
transfer may be higher that the sum transfered.


Thanks.  Just tried a SEPA transfer in EUR.  I guess it will be processed on 
Tuesday as tomorrow is a banking holiday here in Bulgaria.




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Re: The State of the SeaMonkey Union!

[Frank-Rainer Grahl]

It should. What is the error message?

FRG

Arnie Goetchius wrote:

Frank-Rainer Grahl wrote:

If you are in the EU a SEPA transfer in Euros is the best and will cost the
recipient and you nothing or next to nothing. Otherwise the charges for the
transfer may be higher that the sum transfered.

FRG


I/'m in the US and there appears to be no way to make a donation to Seamonkey by
any means including Paypal, Credit card, etc. Why doesn't Seamonkey accept
donations from the US?

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Re: The State of the SeaMonkey Union!

[Arnie Goetchius]

Frank-Rainer Grahl wrote:
> If you are in the EU a SEPA transfer in Euros is the best and will cost the
> recipient and you nothing or next to nothing. Otherwise the charges for the
> transfer may be higher that the sum transfered.
> 
> FRG

I/'m in the US and there appears to be no way to make a donation to Seamonkey by
any means including Paypal, Credit card, etc. Why doesn't Seamonkey accept
donations from the US?

> Stanimir Stamenkov wrote:
>> Tue, 2 May 2017 15:24:03 +0200, /Frank-Rainer Grahl/:
>>
>>> What we need:
>>>
>>> Setting up our own infrastructure, potentially in conjunction with
>>> Thunderbird, will cost. If you feel you can contribute towards
>>> future releases in this way, please consider donating:
>>> https://www.seamonkey-project.org/donate/
>>
>> I don't have PayPal account at the moment, and I don't really want to open 
>> one
>> currently, so I'm considering the Bankwire transfer option.  What currency I
>> should make the transfer in – EUR, USD, or?
>>
> 

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Re: The State of the SeaMonkey Union!

[Stanimir Stamenkov via support-seamonkey]

Sun, 7 May 2017 15:04:54 +0200, /Frank-Rainer Grahl/:

If you are in the EU a SEPA transfer in Euros is the best and will cost 
the recipient and you nothing or next to nothing. Otherwise the charges 
for the transfer may be higher that the sum transfered.


Thanks.  Just tried a SEPA transfer in EUR.  I guess it will be 
processed on Tuesday as tomorrow is a banking holiday here in Bulgaria.


--
Stanimir
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Re: The State of the SeaMonkey Union!

[Frank-Rainer Grahl]

If you are in the EU a SEPA transfer in Euros is the best and will cost the 
recipient and you nothing or next to nothing. Otherwise the charges for the 
transfer may be higher that the sum transfered.


FRG

Stanimir Stamenkov wrote:

Tue, 2 May 2017 15:24:03 +0200, /Frank-Rainer Grahl/:


What we need:

Setting up our own infrastructure, potentially in conjunction with
Thunderbird, will cost. If you feel you can contribute towards
future releases in this way, please consider donating:
https://www.seamonkey-project.org/donate/


I don't have PayPal account at the moment, and I don't really want to open one 
currently, so I'm considering the Bankwire transfer option.  What currency I 
should make the transfer in – EUR, USD, or?




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Re: The State of the SeaMonkey Union!

[Stanimir Stamenkov via support-seamonkey]

Tue, 2 May 2017 15:24:03 +0200, /Frank-Rainer Grahl/:


What we need:

Setting up our own infrastructure, potentially in conjunction with
Thunderbird, will cost. If you feel you can contribute towards
future releases in this way, please consider donating:
https://www.seamonkey-project.org/donate/


I don't have PayPal account at the moment, and I don't really want 
to open one currently, so I'm considering the Bankwire transfer 
option.  What currency I should make the transfer in – EUR, USD, or?


--
Stanimir
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Re: The State of the SeaMonkey Union!

[Alex Beauroy]

On 06/05/2017 03:16, Ed Mullen wrote:

On 5/5/17 at 2:49 PM, Pat Connors's prodigious digits fired off with
great aplomb:



Setting up our own infrastructure, potentially in conjunction with
Thunderbird, will cost. If you feel you can contribute towards future
releases in this way, please consider donating:
https://www.seamonkey-project.org/donate/

I am trying to donate and I get the British Paypal which does not give
option for dollars.  When I go to the US version, it does not
recognize SeaMonkey.  Anyone have a good link for the US version of
Seamonkey Paypal?

PS  All these years of using SeaMonkey, I never knew about them get
money when we use DuckDuckGo for our search engine.  Thanks for
letting us know, I am now using it and find it as good as Google.



Yeah, ditto.  I changed from Google.  Hey, a few sheckles here ...


Me too , I change from Google & Yahoo Search ( the old "Alta Vista")
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Re: The State of the SeaMonkey Union!

[Frank-Rainer Grahl]

The DuckDuckGo deal was only recently finalized around the time 2.46 came out.

Thanks for your support
FRG

Ed Mullen wrote:
On 5/5/17 at 2:49 PM, Pat Connors's prodigious digits fired off with great 
aplomb:


Setting up our own infrastructure, potentially in conjunction with 
Thunderbird, will cost. If you feel you can contribute towards future 
releases in this way, please consider donating:

https://www.seamonkey-project.org/donate/
I am trying to donate and I get the British Paypal which does not give 
option for dollars.  When I go to the US version, it does not recognize 
SeaMonkey.  Anyone have a good link for the US version of Seamonkey Paypal?


PS  All these years of using SeaMonkey, I never knew about them get money 
when we use DuckDuckGo for our search engine.  Thanks for letting us know, I 
am now using it and find it as good as Google.




Yeah, ditto.  I changed from Google.  Hey, a few sheckles here ...



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Re: The State of the SeaMonkey Union!

[Ed Mullen]

On 5/5/17 at 2:49 PM, Pat Connors's prodigious digits fired off with 
great aplomb:


Setting up our own infrastructure, potentially in conjunction with 
Thunderbird, will cost. If you feel you can contribute towards future 
releases in this way, please consider donating:

https://www.seamonkey-project.org/donate/
I am trying to donate and I get the British Paypal which does not give 
option for dollars.  When I go to the US version, it does not recognize 
SeaMonkey.  Anyone have a good link for the US version of Seamonkey Paypal?


PS  All these years of using SeaMonkey, I never knew about them get 
money when we use DuckDuckGo for our search engine.  Thanks for letting 
us know, I am now using it and find it as good as Google.




Yeah, ditto.  I changed from Google.  Hey, a few sheckles here ...

--
Ed Mullen
http://edmullen.net/
Try not to let your mind wander; it's too small and fragile to be out by 
itself.

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Re: The State of the SeaMonkey Union!

[Bill Spikowski]

Pat Connors wrote:



Setting up our own infrastructure, potentially in conjunction with Thunderbird, 
will cost. If you feel you can contribute towards future releases in this way, 
please consider donating:
https://www.seamonkey-project.org/donate/

I am trying to donate and I get the British Paypal which does not give option 
for dollars.  When I go to the US version, it does not recognize SeaMonkey.  
Anyone have a good link for the US version of Seamonkey Paypal?



I've never had a problem using the US version of Paypal with Seamonkey.

But you can use the British version, or any other country's; it will convert 
your donation into dollars.
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Re: The State of the SeaMonkey Union!

[Pat Connors]

Setting up our own infrastructure, potentially in conjunction with 
Thunderbird, will cost. If you feel you can contribute towards future 
releases in this way, please consider donating:

https://www.seamonkey-project.org/donate/
I am trying to donate and I get the British Paypal which does not give 
option for dollars.  When I go to the US version, it does not recognize 
SeaMonkey.  Anyone have a good link for the US version of Seamonkey Paypal?


PS  All these years of using SeaMonkey, I never knew about them get 
money when we use DuckDuckGo for our search engine.  Thanks for letting 
us know, I am now using it and find it as good as Google.


--
Pat Connors
http://www.connorsgenealogy.com
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Re: The State of the SeaMonkey Union!

[Frank-Rainer Grahl]

I use this one for suite to pick all:
https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/report.cgi?query_format=report-table=table=wrap_axis_field=bug_status_axis_field=component=SeaMonkey=

You would need one for mailnews too:

https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/report.cgi?query_format=report-table=table=wrap_axis_field=bug_status_axis_field=component=MailNews%20Core=


Steve Wendt wrote:

On 5/3/2017 1:21 AM, Iacopo Benesperi wrote:


* I have a mac, so I can help with triaging bugs. I don't think I'll
have time to actively search for bugs to triage


I think this is mainly a question of constructing a good Bugzilla query.


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Re: The State of the SeaMonkey Union!

[Steve Wendt]

On 5/3/2017 1:21 AM, Iacopo Benesperi wrote:


* I have a mac, so I can help with triaging bugs. I don't think I'll
have time to actively search for bugs to triage


I think this is mainly a question of constructing a good Bugzilla query.
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Re: The State of the SeaMonkey Union! - Get SeaMonkey into Ubuntu and Debian repos

[Steve Wendt]

On 5/3/2017 6:06 AM, Rainer Bielefeld wrote:


Of course it would be great to be listed in the repos


FWIW, I'm happy to say that SeaMonkey has been maintained in the Fedora 
repository.  The maintainer accepted my request to enable GStreamer in 
his build, after it had been enabled for Firefox.

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Re: The State of the SeaMonkey Union! - Get SeaMonkey into Ubuntu and Debian repos

[WaltS48]

On 5/3/17 9:06 AM, Rainer Bielefeld wrote:

On 05/02/2017 09:40 PM, P. H. Madore wrote:

I think it would be valid to focus on getting SeaMonkey into Ubuntu
and Debian repos. Willing to help.

Hello,

great! To keep this thread a little more clear I created this sub 
thread for "Get  SeaMonkey into Ubuntu  and Debian repos", I hope some 
other sub threads with new Ideas will follow.


Of course it would be great to be listed in the repos, this might be a 
way to get additional volunteers, also for the basic taks.


It was in Ubuntu repos until there was no one to maintain it.



I doubt there will be a miraculous comeback.

If it is like their Thunderbird support, users will wait weeks before a 
release shows up.


I even installed the ubuntu-mozilla-security ppa on a recommendation for 
keeping Thunderbird up to date. Checked and was informed that my 45.8.0 
was the latest version. At that time 52.0.1 was out and now 52.1.0 is out.


--
Go Bucs and Pens!
Coexist
National Popular Vote
Ubuntu 16.04LTS - Unity Desktop

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Re: The State of the SeaMonkey Union! - Get SeaMonkey into Ubuntu and Debian repos

[David H. Durgee]

Rainer Bielefeld wrote:

On 05/02/2017 09:40 PM, P. H. Madore wrote:

I think it would be valid to focus on getting SeaMonkey into Ubuntu
and Debian repos. Willing to help.


You are aware of ubuntuzilla, I hope.  With that there is a repo that 
can be used already present.  All that should be necessary is to get it 
added to the list of official repositories.


Dave


Hello,

great! To keep this thread a little more clear I created this sub thread
for "Get  SeaMonkey into Ubuntu  and Debian repos", I hope some other
sub threads with new Ideas will follow.

Of course it would be great to be listed in the repos, this might be a
way to get additional volunteers, also for the basic taks.

But you all should know: currently all core volunteers are busy to do
necessary code updates, infrastructure updates and so on. A new task
like this only can be done by new volunteers, the "old" staff will only
be able to help a little with advice and smaller assistance.

I think it would be useful to create a new task for this here
, where all ToDos
can be gathered.

Best Regards

Rainer


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Re: The State of the SeaMonkey Union! - Get SeaMonkey into Ubuntu and Debian repos

[Rainer Bielefeld]

On 05/02/2017 09:40 PM, P. H. Madore wrote:

I think it would be valid to focus on getting SeaMonkey into Ubuntu
and Debian repos. Willing to help.

Hello,

great! To keep this thread a little more clear I created this sub thread 
for "Get  SeaMonkey into Ubuntu  and Debian repos", I hope some other 
sub threads with new Ideas will follow.


Of course it would be great to be listed in the repos, this might be a 
way to get additional volunteers, also for the basic taks.


But you all should know: currently all core volunteers are busy to do 
necessary code updates, infrastructure updates and so on. A new task 
like this only can be done by new volunteers, the "old" staff will only 
be able to help a little with advice and smaller assistance.


I think it would be useful to create a new task for this here 
, where all ToDos 
can be gathered.


Best Regards

Rainer
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Re: The State of the SeaMonkey Union!

[Richard Owlett]

On 05/02/2017 09:40 PM, P. H. Madore wrote:

I think it would be valid to focus on getting SeaMonkey into Ubuntu
and Debian repos. Willing to help.


Is there any data to show how much penetration of the Debian/Ubuntu 
market SeaMonkey already has? For example I am using Debian Jessie, but 
my UA string only indicates my OS as Linux.


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Re: The State of the SeaMonkey Union!

[Iacopo Benesperi]

Frank-Rainer Grahl ha scritto:
> But what we need even more is people to help out. Even if you are not a
> developer, you can help. For example, writing a document such as this
> takes time. Also, maintaining a website is not done by staring at it all
> day.
> 
> - Website: Some areas are severely outdated and things like release
> notes need to be written too.
> 
> - Bug hunting and triaging: We could use a few more people to check out
> bugs and try to reproduce and categorize them in Bugzilla. We are
> especially short on people doing this on macOS. While we are on it.
> Writing lengthy threads in the news and support groups is fine but if no
> one actually reports them as a bug in the end they usually won't get fixed.

Hi Frank,
thank you for this exhaustive update. For what concerns myself, I'd like
to help out, with a few caveats:

* At the moment I'm finishing my PhD thesis, so I have no time for
anything. After that, I'll be travelling for a few months. Starting
second half of October, I'll be home again with nothing to do for about
three months and after that I'll have a job again, but still no thesis
to write at the end, so a bit more free time. I'd be happy to get
acquainted with thing in the initial three months and then just do
normal maintenance.

* I'm no developer: I can help with documents and with the website
(keeping in mind that I'm good at HTML/CSS/PHP but know nothing of JS)
if you'd like me to.

* I have a mac, so I can help with triaging bugs. I don't think I'll
have time to actively search for bugs to triage, but I'll be happy to
have a look at any that a developer will point me to, and help debug it.

Cheers,
Iacopo
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Re: The State of the SeaMonkey Union!

[EE]

Frank-Rainer Grahl wrote:

Not being able to easily set the search engine in 2.46 to another
provider was a genuine bug with a workaround documented in the release
notes from day 1. It has now been fixed.


- Graphics: Icons and symbols

need a face lift for HiDPI screens. There are plans to switch everything
over to svg files in the backend which would mean a massive effort to
convert existing files. With a sometimes extremely conservative user
base when it comes to changes in the interface, not an easy job


I have found it easy to change the search engine by changing the search 
plugin in the search bar.  I am used to doing searches from the search 
bar anyway, and selecting something on the page and searching from the 
context menu depends on what engine is displayed in the search bar.


The icons for the applications should be updated.  Even with Firefox 
24esr, the icon (in MacOS) is 1024x1024 px.  With Thunderbird 24, the 
icon is 512x512 px, and with the current release of SeaMonkey the icon 
is 128x128 px, which is way behind the times.


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The State of the SeaMonkey Union!

[Frank-Rainer Grahl]

Greetings,

I am just relaying the following message for the SeaMonkey Council. It is not 
on the web page but it is official. If you have any questions you can either 
ask here or use the provided web address.


Have fun
FRG


+++ snip +++

Hello fellow users and supporters of the SeaMonkey suite.

The important part first: SeaMonkey is alive and we do not plan to discontinue 
it. But in continuing to deliver the best and only suite based on the Mozilla 
Gecko web engine, we need your help.


Lets first start where we are.

SeaMonkey 2.46 was released in late December after struggling for months with 
infrastructure and build issues. While still using the Mozilla infrastructure, 
we are mostly on our own here. We plan to release a final 2.48 based on the 
level of Firefox 51 soon. Again this  is late due to infrastructure and build 
issues, but not so much as 2.46. Being based on Firefox 51 means that security 
patches are again not up to par with current Firefox. Believe us, we dislike 
this as much as you do.
The SeaMonkey project is entirely driven by volunteers working on it in their 
free time. The current members of the core team (count up to 7) are committed 
but, with all the changes, are getting slowly overwhelmed.
This means bugs do not get fixed as fast as we would like. With an aging 
infrastructure becoming more and more abandoned by Mozilla, due to switching 
Firefox building to the cloud, releasing builds does not become easier. It 
also means that if even one of the current key people quits, the project is in 
danger of becoming un-maintainable which is even worse.
Also keeping up with Firefox is becoming difficult at best. Mozilla plans to 
discontinue classic extensions and themes with Firefox 57 which is right 
around the corner. XUL, one of the key technologies of SeaMonkey, is also on 
the chopping block and will be discontinued in the near future. The 
replacement technologies, based on modern web standards, are immature and 
still under constant development. In the end, an almost complete rewrite of 
the current program will probably be needed. If it weren't for our friends 
from the Thunderbird project, we would now have even bigger problems.
The good news is that financially we are a little better off than last year. 
DuckDuckGo is now the default search engine of SeaMonkey. Every time you use 
it for searches in SeaMonkey we get paid. For the conspiracy seeking people 
out there:) Not being able to easily set the search engine in 2.46 to another 
provider was a genuine bug with a workaround documented in the release notes 
from day 1. It has now been fixed.


What we plan:

After releasing SeaMonkey 2.48 we will switch to the Firefox 52 ESR source 
code for 2.49.x releases. This means that the code base is more or less frozen 
for a few release cycles and only security updates and bug fixes will be in 
the releases.


The infrastructure issue has been discussed. While critical, there are no 
final plans yet (also thanks to lack of manpower). Thunderbird is in the same 
boat and we hope to work out something together. If worst comes to worst, we 
could ask our team member Adrian Kalla to produce our regular builds. This had 
been discussed earlier. It was dismissed, for now, as no crash symbols for 
builds would be available on the Mozilla servers.


Switching to ESR means we can work on bugs in the current tree for a while 
longer without having to fear that they are carried over into a release. They 
need to be fixed for the next ESR of course.


The most critical issue is to support web extensions in one of the next 
releases. It is unclear how long we will be able to support classic extensions.


There are a number of Gecko Forks in the wild. We do not plan to switch over 
to one of them as the basis for SeaMonkey. We think that they currently do not 
have enough developers themselves to cope with the changes Mozilla plans. Web 
technologies are also evolving all the time and we fear that they are not able 
to keep up.


Also, we are not planning to support any abandoned stuff like classic 
extensions and NPAPI plugins on our own. We will try as long as possible. But 
when they are gone, they are gone. The current developer base is much too 
small to do our own fork.


Based on how successful Mozilla is, or if one of the forks gain ground, this 
might change in the future.


What we need:

Setting up our own infrastructure, potentially in conjunction with 
Thunderbird, will cost. If you feel you can contribute towards future releases 
in this way, please consider donating:

https://www.seamonkey-project.org/donate/

But what we need even more is people to help out. Even if you are not a 
developer, you can help. For example, writing a document such as this takes 
time. Also, maintaining a website is not done by staring at it all day.


So if you want to help, these project areas are looking for a few good 
contributors:


- Development. Most code is either JavaScript or