Food for thought
Robert's post SeaMonkey Project Goals - The Summary/Excerpt and a recent request for help BookMarks,hope this group is better than others on the FF NG triggered some thoughts I wish to share: - Den's post of the FF NG requested such a simple information - which had not been answered by respectable members of that NG - that I hesitated answering it, for fearing of missing the obvious and making a fool of myself. I finally did (not make a fool of myself ...), and my answer was exactly what the OP expected. Fact 1 - Robert's post about info gathering with respect to the future of SM. Fact 2 Question 1 - How do we make SM a realistic choice for basic computer users, meaning those who tend to be satisfied with what they get when they buy a machine. Vista and all its BS, unavoidable Explorer. Question 2- How do we bring this user who made the initial step subscribe to our NG, how do we make him feel at home and what respect do we show for his lack of knowledge. Question 3 - How do we manage to satisfy basic needs (read, needs from people who just want to get there and who do not care how) while catering to the enthusiast crowd most of us belong to. I do not claim to have the answers to those questions but keeping them in mind might help show the way. A chaos of constant innovation would, I think, be one sure way to frighten away a large percentage of the current SeaMonkey community To some, this sentence from Robert's post might mean that we are a bunch of idiots unable to move forward. To others like me, it just means that innovation is good only to the extent it makes things more useful, or more powerful, or both, while keeping them simple. This make me come back to Den's post about bookmarks in FF that was so simple that nobody saw the light. Granted, bookmarks are a sensitive subject for me, among others. But does not this show us the need for simplicity and clarity? From this rambling, I come to the conclusion that we must not be misled by our enthusiasm or find excuses behind software technical considerations: SM must be a software which has its own personality, who makes the user feel at home and who welcomes enthusiasts by way of add-ons (extensions?) while offering a solid, simple and clear base. Innovation means nothing if the end result is not *clearly* better, from a user's stand point, the only one that matters. I believe this is the way to develop a faithful following of users and promoters of the software we believe in. -- John Doue ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: Food for thought
On Sun, 21 Dec 2008 20:14:08 +0200 John Doue notw...@yahoo.com wrote: - Den's post of the FF NG requested such a simple information - which had not been answered by respectable members of that NG - that I hesitated answering it, for fearing of missing the obvious and making a fool of myself. I finally did (not make a fool of myself ...), and my answer was exactly what the OP expected. Fact 1 Your answer was also the answer Potamus had given den the first time den asked, three days previously. Also, in the thread you posted to, he had already gotten the response To back up bookmarks with Firefox 2 versions, go into the bookmark manager window and choose Export from the File menu, which is just as simple and will work just as well as the answer you gave. den didn't understand it, though, so asked the followup question you responded to. That's how it's supposed to work; people ask questions, others answer to the best of their ability, and followup questions are asked and answered if needed. IMO, there's no problem with the way it's working in general and no problem with the way it worked in that thread specifically. den made it a little tougher by ignoring answers he'd already gotten and by providing incorrect information (there are no Fx 1.8.x versions), but that's no big deal. I don't think this part of the food for thought has anything to do with SeaMonkey, so I've set followup to mozilla.general. -- »Q« /\ ASCII Ribbon Campaign \ / against html e-mailX http://asciiribbon.org/ / \ ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: 1.1.14 crashes on Cagle BLOG
John Doue wrote: robert.ga...@att.net wrote: Bill Davidsen wrote: Just drops dead on http://cagle.com/news/BLOG trying to look at his latest cartoon for the French. Week-old SM 2.0a3 was able to open the same page just fine. Tested under Fedora FC9 and FC10, using the version from Mozilla download, not the Fedora package (which has other issues with font sizes). Are you referring to the image The Archetypal American? If so it works OK on my system, 1.1.14 browser in WinXP SP2 Home. The image is cut off at the knees but if saved, looks the save in any graphics program. I would not say it displays ok with knees cut-off. I have the whole picture with 1.1.13 For what it's worth, today the entire cartoon including feet was displayed without any changes to Seamonkey or my system. At the same time, the image was cut off losing the lower half of the shoes with Internet Explorer. If there is a problem here, it does not seem to be a browser problem but a site problem. I.E. believes the gif is 333x400 and 44844 bytes while Seamonkey has the same 333x400 but has a size of 52151 bytes. A fresh Reload of this page in Seamonkey displayed the same cut off image seen in I.E. but now Seamonkey believes the image has 46311 bytes. I'm on dial-up and this page takes very long to load. It looks to me that there is no problem with Seamonkey or I.E. for that matter but with the site and time sharing on the many different urls. The source for the gif is http://cagle.com/news/BLOG/BLOGgifs/AmericanArchitype.gif a different page from the main source http://cagle.com/news/BLOG/ When I enter the url of the gif, it loads perfectly. If there were a bug in Seamonkey, I'd expect the original url to load the same wrong way each time, not change at random. As I.E. behaves as Seamonkey in this regard, that supports a site problem. ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: What controls system font size?
Bill Davidsen wrote: That is, the fonts used to present menus, etc. The Fedora Linux releases of seamonkey have those fonts set to something very small (perhaps 4-6pt) and I can't seem to change them. Tried: - font settings in about:config - using other themes The first changes font sizes in the browser or mail text display, but not the subjects display or the grey (in classic theme) area. I'm out of ideas, where are these set? And as a side issue, shouldn't their size be in about:config? I have a related question: where can I change the default view for text from 100% to 110% on a permanent basis. I know how to change it under View -- Text Zoom --Other The reason I ask is that I recently replaced my 17 CRT (resolution set to 1280x1024 and was very readable) for a 19 LCD (resolution is 1440x990). Certain sites like Foxnews.com are relatively tiny at 100% but 110% is good. Changing the font sizes in preferences under appearance doesn't help. ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: Playing streaming Windows Media video (SM 1.1.14, Kubuntu 8.10)
Rob Lindauer wrote: I'm trying to play some streaming video (Doppler radar at http://www.wfsb.com/video/9688512/index.html/index.html) via SM 1.1.14 on my Kutuntu 8.10 system. I have .wmv files associated with Kaffeine via my SM preferences, and they open right up in my browser. When I try to play the weather video above, I get a missing plugin message from SM. I suppose I need to define another filetype in my preference, but don't know what it is; or perhaps Kaffeine doesn't handle streaming video, or needs some plugin I don't know about. Can someone suggest a good way to view the video via SM? (Likely an elementary question - I'm relatively new at Linux) Thanks! if there's a vid there, then I can't play it. It plays fine in Firefox, but not SM. Anyways, the rest of the vids on that page require flash. -- *IMPORTANT*: Sorry folks, but I cannot provide email help Emails to me may become public Notice: This posting is protected under the Free Speech Laws, which applies everywhere in the FREE world, except for some strange reason, not to the mozilla.org newsgroup servers, where your posting may get you banned. Peter Potamus His Magic Flying Balloon: http://melaman2.com/cartoons/singles/mp3/p-potamus.mp3 http://www.toonopedia.com/potamus.htm ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: OT: was Re: Why is SM not rendering the website page
On 12/21/2008 12:00 PM, Moz Champion (Dan) wrote: Daniel wrote: NoOp wrote: On 12/20/2008 05:39 PM, Daniel wrote: NoOp wrote: On 12/20/2008 05:51 AM, Ray_Net wrote: Peter Potamus the Purple Hippo wrote: Ray_Net wrote: snip Why not install Prefbar then you can easily turn it off on easily: http://prefbar.mozdev.org/ quote you can easily turn it off on easily end quotedoes this mean it is very easy to turn it off on?? Yes :-). Oh!! O.K. then. There is another that provides an easy means of turning java on and off as well, and it works with Javascript too to boot. https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/seamonkey/addon/1237/ I suppose... but I've been using Manuel Reimer's Prefbar since nearly day one when it was available so I'm somewhat biased towards Manuel's work (waves at Manuel). For the most part it has generally been the only add-on that I've installed; however with testing 2.0a3pre et al I'm finding that I also quite like xsidebar (waves at Philip). Further, Prefbar provides the ability to turn off/on java, javascript, flash, cookies, images, popups, restore tabs, etc., etc., very easily. On any new system it's: 'install SeaMonkey' then 'install Prefbar'. Works for me :-) ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: OT: was Re: Why is SM not rendering the website page
On 12/21/2008 2:26 PM, NoOp wrote: On 12/21/2008 12:00 PM, Moz Champion (Dan) wrote: Daniel wrote: NoOp wrote: On 12/20/2008 05:39 PM, Daniel wrote: NoOp wrote: On 12/20/2008 05:51 AM, Ray_Net wrote: Peter Potamus the Purple Hippo wrote: Ray_Net wrote: snip Why not install Prefbar then you can easily turn it off on easily: http://prefbar.mozdev.org/ quote you can easily turn it off on easily end quotedoes this mean it is very easy to turn it off on?? Yes :-). Oh!! O.K. then. There is another that provides an easy means of turning java on and off as well, and it works with Javascript too to boot. https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/seamonkey/addon/1237/ I suppose... but I've been using Manuel Reimer's Prefbar since nearly day one when it was available so I'm somewhat biased towards Manuel's work (waves at Manuel). For the most part it has generally been the only add-on that I've installed; however with testing 2.0a3pre et al I'm finding that I also quite like xsidebar (waves at Philip). Further, Prefbar provides the ability to turn off/on java, javascript, flash, cookies, images, popups, restore tabs, etc., etc., very easily. On any new system it's: 'install SeaMonkey' then 'install Prefbar'. Works for me :-) I agree with your support of PrefBar. In fact, I submitted RFE bugs -- one each to Mozilla and Mozdev -- to incorporate PrefBar as an integral component of SeaMonkey. Unfortunately, no one seems to want this. See https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=258881 https://www.mozdev.org/bugs/show_bug.cgi?id=7670 -- David E. Ross http://www.rossde.com/ Go to Mozdev at http://www.mozdev.org/ for quick access to extensions for Firefox, Thunderbird, SeaMonkey, and other Mozilla-related applications. You can access Mozdev much more quickly than you can Mozilla Add-Ons. ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
ZDNet article on browser password protection tests--SM stands where?
Among ZDNet's blogs for 12/15/08 was this posting: Major Web browsers fail password protection tests (http://blogs.zdnet.com/security/?p=2305). The test in question was performed by Chapin Information Services, and the full details can be found here: http://www.info-svc.com/news/2008/12-12/ The tests were performed on Firefox 3.0.4, Opera 9.62, IE 7.0, Safari 3.2, and Google Chrome 1.0. Both FF and Opera faired the best with an overall score of 7, but they still each failed 13 of the 20 tests. I'm wondering where SM stands in this testing, given the current version of Gecko and the associated password vault/wallet. I've not worked with FF 3's version of password manager, but I would assume it has an encryption function similar to SM's master password, etc. Execution of this function, however, likely differs between the two apps. It seems easy, IMO, to dismiss this issue out of hand as user laziness, but when one is operating with literally dozens of different passwords, having them consolidated in a vault-type location does save time and effort. I'm wondering if having the master password set for Every time it is needed affects how SM responds vis a vis the CIS test battery. Feedback and comments, especially of SM developers, solicited and appreciated. Purrs -- -- /\ /\ | I love cats because I enjoy my home; ^o o^D.K. Cat Kraft | and little by little, they become -T-kraftyc...@verizon.net | its visible soul. ~ Lynnwood, WA | ___oOO___OOo___ | -- Jean Cocteau ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: Food for thought
John Doue wrote: Question 1 - How do we make SM a realistic choice for basic computer users, meaning those who tend to be satisfied with what they get when they buy a machine. Vista and all its BS, unavoidable Explorer. Sorry to be blunt, but I don't see those as our target group, I see those as what Firefox is targeting for and should be targeting for. I for myself tell those to look into Firefox. I tell advanced people to try SeaMonkey, but not novices. Our UI is way to overloaded for basic computer users, IMHO. Question 2- How do we bring this user who made the initial step subscribe to our NG, how do we make him feel at home and what respect do we show for his lack of knowledge. That's something we surely should think about. Question 3 - How do we manage to satisfy basic needs (read, needs from people who just want to get there and who do not care how) while catering to the enthusiast crowd most of us belong to. Depends on what those users actually want. SeaMonkey might not be the answer for all of those. Robert Kaiser ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: What controls system font size?
Tony wrote: Bill Davidsen wrote: That is, the fonts used to present menus, etc. The Fedora Linux releases of seamonkey have those fonts set to something very small (perhaps 4-6pt) and I can't seem to change them. Tried: - font settings in about:config - using other themes The first changes font sizes in the browser or mail text display, but not the subjects display or the grey (in classic theme) area. I'm out of ideas, where are these set? And as a side issue, shouldn't their size be in about:config? I have a related question: where can I change the default view for text from 100% to 110% on a permanent basis. I know how to change it under View -- Text Zoom --Other The reason I ask is that I recently replaced my 17 CRT (resolution set to 1280x1024 and was very readable) for a 19 LCD (resolution is 1440x990). Certain sites like Foxnews.com are relatively tiny at 100% but 110% is good. Changing the font sizes in preferences under appearance doesn't help. Tony, if you set the resolution on the LCD to the same 1280x1024 as you had on the CRT, how do things look?? or is this size not available on the LCD?? -- Daniel (using his sister's computer) (Test driving SM 2.x) ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: Food for thought
Robert Kaiser wrote: John Doue wrote: Question 1 - How do we make SM a realistic choice for basic computer users, meaning those who tend to be satisfied with what they get when they buy a machine. Vista and all its BS, unavoidable Explorer. Sorry to be blunt, but I don't see those as our target group, I see those as what Firefox is targeting for and should be targeting for. I for myself tell those to look into Firefox. I tell advanced people to try SeaMonkey, but not novices. Our UI is way to overloaded for basic computer users, IMHO. Thank you, Robert, for saying this here! I was thinking of adding to your SeaMonkey Project Goals thread, but wasn't sure how to set things up so that it would post HERE rather than to the dev group that you had the follow-up set to! In my humble opinion, SeaMonkey should be aiming to be a bare-bones suite, i.e. basic browser, basic mail news, basic composer AND a very good extension manager. If you want to send HTML mail - download an extension If you want to view video - download an extension If you want a different theme - download an extension If you want to upgrade your Java - download an extension If you want to do whatever (advanced) - download an extension So the whole thing that you very able guys do would become far more compartmentalised (which, I supposed could make the integration more difficult). We now have 'phones that tell the time, take photos and browser the web.how long before we have wrist watches, a la Dick Tracy, that can do similar. Making SeaMonkey (bare bones) as streamlined as possible could make it more Universal in operation. -- Daniel (using his sister's computer) (Test driving SM 2.x) ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: SeaMonkey Project Goals - The Summary/Excerpt
On Sun, 21 Dec 2008 17:15:03 -0800 Peter Potamus the Purple Hippo peter.potamus.the.purple.hi...@gmail.com wrote: NoOp wrote: I primarily killed/ignored that thread on dev becuase: 1) it was on dev rather than on mozilla.support.seamonkey where the 'users' actually are, I agree with that. The vast majority of opinions that were posted within that thread mostly came from developers. The users opinion wasn't sought, after all, they're the ones using the program. KaiRo specifically sought input from users when he started that thread, by crossposting the invitation to comment to the this user support group. But this group is for peer-to-peer user support, not project planning, so he set followup to the appropriate place. -- »Q« /\ ASCII Ribbon Campaign \ / against html e-mailX http://asciiribbon.org/ / \ ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: ZDNet article on browser password protection tests--SM stands where?
With patience akin to a cat's, Barry Edwin Gilmour, on 12/21/2008 6:52 PM typed: D. K. Kraft wrote: Among ZDNet's blogs for 12/15/08 was this posting: Major Web browsers fail password protection tests (http://blogs.zdnet.com/security/?p=2305). The test in question was performed by Chapin Information Services, and the full details can be found here: http://www.info-svc.com/news/2008/12-12/ The tests were performed on Firefox 3.0.4, Opera 9.62, IE 7.0, Safari 3.2, and Google Chrome 1.0. Both FF and Opera faired the best with an overall score of 7, but they still each failed 13 of the 20 tests. I'm wondering where SM stands in this testing, given the current version of Gecko and the associated password vault/wallet. I've not worked with FF 3's version of password manager, but I would assume it has an encryption function similar to SM's master password, etc. Execution of this function, however, likely differs between the two apps. It seems easy, IMO, to dismiss this issue out of hand as user laziness, but when one is operating with literally dozens of different passwords, having them consolidated in a vault-type location does save time and effort. I'm wondering if having the master password set for Every time it is needed affects how SM responds vis a vis the CIS test battery. Feedback and comments, especially of SM developers, solicited and appreciated. Already answered:- (http://groups.google.com/group/mozilla.support.seamonkey/msg/85c0eba9f83df8d2) See (http://www.flickr.com/photos/22198...@n03/). Erm...the test results for SM 1.1.14 certainly don't inspire confidence--86% failure rate (passing only 3 out of 21 tests). Obviously there is a core difference between FF 3 and SM 1.1.14, since the former passes tests the latter fails and vice versa. The only test they pass together is that of valid URIs not breaking anything, which appears to be a commonality between all browsers tested except for Safari and Chrome. I hope this is a priority fix in the development of SM 2, as well as something that Really Should Be Patched ASAP for 1.1.14. Rigorous password protection is definitely a must for SM, especially since users will continue to want, given human behavior, to make use of the Password Manager function--myself included. Thanks for the very nice colored chart of CIS test info, Barry, c'est magnifique. Purrs -- -- /\ /\ | I love cats because I enjoy my home; ^o o^D.K. Cat Kraft | and little by little, they become -T-kraftyc...@verizon.net | its visible soul. ~ Lynnwood, WA | ___oOO___OOo___ | -- Jean Cocteau ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: What controls system font size?
Daniel wrote: Tony wrote: Bill Davidsen wrote: That is, the fonts used to present menus, etc. The Fedora Linux releases of seamonkey have those fonts set to something very small (perhaps 4-6pt) and I can't seem to change them. Tried: - font settings in about:config - using other themes The first changes font sizes in the browser or mail text display, but not the subjects display or the grey (in classic theme) area. I'm out of ideas, where are these set? And as a side issue, shouldn't their size be in about:config? I have a related question: where can I change the default view for text from 100% to 110% on a permanent basis. I know how to change it under View -- Text Zoom --Other The reason I ask is that I recently replaced my 17 CRT (resolution set to 1280x1024 and was very readable) for a 19 LCD (resolution is 1440x990). Certain sites like Foxnews.com are relatively tiny at 100% but 110% is good. Changing the font sizes in preferences under appearance doesn't help. Tony, if you set the resolution on the LCD to the same 1280x1024 as you had on the CRT, how do things look?? or is this size not available on the LCD?? The LCD is won't do the 1024 portion. the old CRT was a square design and the LCD is wide screen design. Even setting the system (Win XP) properties to show larger icons/text doesn't cut it in SM. System looks fine, SM small. ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
