Re: [Biofuel] [SPAM] Re: BYU professor's group accuses U.S.officialsoflyingabout 9/11
Gandhi I've only got a passing familiarity with, even though he seems to be referred to as the father of non-violent protest.Maybe he was perfect and maybe his followers were never incited to riot or to violence. If so, then in this case I'm wrong. I hope I'm wrong. I'd like to be wrong. I wish my cynical world view was wrong and that if you really are pure of heart then the truth will win out in the end and peace will fall on the land but I guess I just haven't seen it in my life time.On 14 Apr 2006, at 10:20, Keith Addison wrote: ask: what would Martin Luther King Jr or Ghandi do? Who would Jesus bomb? The moneylenders in the temple? "Peaceful Protest" always had the promise of riots behind it. I don't think so. So what about Gandhi? And indeed Jesus? Let's have a look at the global protests since Seattle in 1999, what about them? I see lots on violence on the TV where protests are going on. Where are the peaceful ones? I'm serious. Educate me. Maybe I'm turning blinders to peace because it seems to me that all there is, is evil and violence in the world at large. Little people being crushed under the wheel of US empire building and Globalization monster.This Jesus guy though. The more I read about the true, historical Jesus he is looking less and less like the guy in the Wholly Roman Bible and more like an Iraqi insurgent. He was closely associated with the Zealots who were fighting against the Roman occupation. When his plans of political ascension fell apart, looks like he high tailed it out of there and maybe joined Mary Mag in France.Keith, educate me. Where am I wrong?___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] [SPAM] Re: [SPAM] Re: BYU professor's group accuses U.S.officialsoflyingabout 9/11
On 14 Apr 2006, at 11:05, Appal Energy wrote: Whenever MLK came to town you knew you either gave him what he wanted or you would have violence on your hands. Violence at who's initiation? snip Something about having a foot in the middle of your back just doesn't cotton too well towards the idea of peace. Exactly. I'm saying he didn't lead a band of trained peace protesters, there were those but not all. The majority were regular folk, of whatever race, that were pissed that things were the way they were and if they didn't see things progressing they were prone to display their displeasure. When I read about MLK, I also read about unrest. That's why he had to be killed. Excuse me? Advocating equality is justification for murder? Let me guess..., I misunderstand what you wrote. Todd Swearingen Maybe. He was a proponent for change, for equality. In the great scheme of U.S. empire building that comes contrary to profit. I'm saying the same people that had Kennedy killed had MLK killed. Justified? I never said that. I didn't say he should die. I said that the powers that be were not about to leave him alive. Gary ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] BYU professor's group accuses U.S.officialsoflyingabout 9/11
Hi Gary, Peaceful protests are seen by folks on the street. So there is a positive effect. The media tends to downgrade the number of protesters if it mentions them at all. If protests get really big, over 100,000 people, I can't see how they can't be covered. If there is police action involved, I doubt that'll get covered correctly. The tendency is to make the protesters the guilty party whether true or not to give the police sympathy. The mainstream media is terribly biased in favor of the officials in every case. So, a protest, because of the media's representation, could well backfire. We have a bunch of Catch-22's here in the U$A. We could make progress in the way of getting a true representative government if: we had a true watchguard media. Except for minor exceptions, we don't. we had real candidates. We do have a few progressives this time around. (need election reform) see: http://www.pdamerica.org/ we had representatives in Congress who valued the common man over corporate interests. With some exceptions, the majority is eager or at least amenable by arm twisting, to do corporate bidding. we had a fired up electorate which continuously harassed their Congress reps. This is growing and may our only hope. Is it at the point of critical ignition? Maybe. It depends on the sensitvity level of our reps. Do they fear not being re-elected enough to do something constructive? we had a reliable voting system. Some states have disavowed use of those touchscreen machines produced by partisan Repug owners. So this is improving. Legislation is in Congress to give us a voting system with reliable audit trail capabilty. Will it be passed in time to get the machines retrofitted in time for the November 2006 elections? I don't know. Since Repugs likely will need machines that could add some needed votes to get them over the top, they'd benefit by dragging their collective feet, something they excell in. There is a groundswell of emotion against the Repugs this time around. Five states are calling for the impeachment of our War President. Getting some progressive liberal Democrats into Congress, enough to give them the Democrats could change things in a hurry. Democrats like Liebermann and Clinton are like clinkers, not good for much. But in any regard, it could be the beginning of the end of corporate controlled Congress. You'd have to say that overall, MLK was a positive agent of change. Riots/fights are just about unavoidable when you have two highly polarized groups. The riots showed that MLK was on the correct path. His speeches were works of spiritual art. He was a pretty brave person, to walk out in front, with highly inflammed people at the side of the parade, who absolutely hated every cell in his body. His assassination was inevitable. The U$A is not at peace with itself. I still hear racial slurs these days. It is sickening. How can people let fear and hate fester on for decades? Peace progress, D. Mindock - Original Message - From: Gary L. Green To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Friday, April 14, 2006 12:25 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] [SPAM] Re: BYU professor's group accuses U.S.officialsoflyingabout 9/11 Okay, let's take this in chunks. Yes, there is peaceful protest but how effective is it really? It's not. It doesn't get much media coverage and gets ignored or forgotten if it is reported. People Power in the PI? Again the threat of violence was there, there were isolated incidents if I remember correctly. Where MLK went there were often riots, big or small okay, small riot is an oxymoron but you get the idea. MLK spoke constantly of non-violence but there were the agitators in the back that kept things on edge. Did MLK secretly coordinate with them? Who knows. All I'm saying here is without the iron fist inside the silk glove you won't be taken seriously. Sorry if it appears I'm stomping on one of your heros but I see very few people as saints be they good or bad. Politics are everywhere no matter what your agenda be it for good or bad. Someone once said that if you were not into politics, you will be done in by politics. On 14 Apr 2006, at 10:20, Keith Addison wrote: Whenever MLK came to town you knew you either gave him what he wanted or you would have violence on your hands. The man was not a saint but he was very good at what he did. That's why he had to be killed. And so that proves your point, there's no such thing as peaceful protest, it's just a sham? Why not answer the rest of the question Gary? It went like this: ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):
Re: [Biofuel] BYU professor's group accuses U.S.officialsoflyingabout 9/11
Hi Gary, Two Kennedys were killed. Bobby was a fiery politician who would've shaken things up too much. Some member(s) of the shadow gov decided he couldn't become prez. He was well on his way when Sirhan Sirhan shot him in California. I had seen Bobby speak at the Univ of Washington, Seattle, just prior to that. There was electric energy in the air. I tried to shake his hand after the speech but only managed touching his left back shoulder. He would have easily gotten into the WH. Peace, D. Mindock - Original Message - From: Gary L. Green [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Friday, April 14, 2006 1:19 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] [SPAM] Re: [SPAM] Re: BYU professor's group accuses U.S.officialsoflyingabout 9/11 On 14 Apr 2006, at 11:05, Appal Energy wrote: Whenever MLK came to town you knew you either gave him what he wanted or you would have violence on your hands. Violence at who's initiation? snip Something about having a foot in the middle of your back just doesn't cotton too well towards the idea of peace. Exactly. I'm saying he didn't lead a band of trained peace protesters, there were those but not all. The majority were regular folk, of whatever race, that were pissed that things were the way they were and if they didn't see things progressing they were prone to display their displeasure. When I read about MLK, I also read about unrest. That's why he had to be killed. Excuse me? Advocating equality is justification for murder? Let me guess..., I misunderstand what you wrote. Todd Swearingen Maybe. He was a proponent for change, for equality. In the great scheme of U.S. empire building that comes contrary to profit. I'm saying the same people that had Kennedy killed had MLK killed. Justified? I never said that. I didn't say he should die. I said that the powers that be were not about to leave him alive. Gary ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] BYU professor's group accuses U.S.officialsoflyingabout 9/11
Yo Gary, I think your idea of totally peaceful revolution is nice butunrealistic. Clashes of people who have opposite strivings are inevitable. Thoughtslead toemotion which in turn action.. Opposite thinking leads to oppossing emotions which easily can lead to fights. Mobs can be incited to do terrible things. I seriously doubt if Ghandi wanted fights but he was realistic enough to know they could happen. He was a social activist trying best he could to get the British out of Indian lives and did not want bloodshed. What does it mean to be perfect? Ibelieve action that follows from true thinking is "perfect". Maybe you think Ghandi should have just stayed in a cave and meditated? Would that make him perfect? Not imo, he would be throwing away hisheartfelt need to make India free. He had to be true to himself. I think there are many parallels between MLK and Ghandi. They both faught oppression in the most peaceful way they knew. It was the oppressors who tried to break their will. Large social changes like they were trying to realize cause a wave of fear to move through those that impose the status quo. These people always have their fringe element who feel called to restore order in the only way they know, brute violence. Both Ghandi and MLK knew the huge personal risk they were taking but refused to back away. They are rightly called heroes of humanity and peace. Peace, D. Mindock - Original Message - From: Gary L. Green To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Friday, April 14, 2006 1:02 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] [SPAM] Re: BYU professor's group accuses U.S.officialsoflyingabout 9/11 Gandhi I've only got a passing familiarity with, even though he seems to bereferred to as the father of non-violent protest. Maybe he was perfect and maybe his followers were never incited to riot or to violence. If so, then in this case I'm wrong. I hope I'm wrong. I'd like to be wrong. I wish my cynical world view was wrong and that if you really are pure of heart then the truth will win out in the end and peace will fall on the land but I guess I just haven't seen it in my life time. On 14 Apr 2006, at 10:20, Keith Addison wrote: ask: what would Martin Luther King Jr or Ghandi do? Who would Jesus bomb? The moneylenders in the temple? "Peaceful Protest" always had the promise of riots behind it. I don't think so. So what about Gandhi? And indeed Jesus? Let's have a look at the global protests since Seattle in 1999, what about them? I see lots on violence on the TV where protests are going on. Where are the peaceful ones? I'm serious. Educate me. Maybe I'm turning blinders to peace because it seems to me that all there is, is evil and violence in the world at large. Little people being crushed under the wheel of US empire building and Globalization monster. This Jesus guy though. The more I read about the true, historical Jesus he is looking less and less like the guy in theWholly Roman Bible and more like an Iraqi insurgent. He was closely associated with the Zealots who were fighting against the Roman occupation. When his plans of politicalascensionfell apart, looks like he high tailed it out of there and maybe joined Mary Mag in France. Keith, educate me. Where am I wrong? ___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] [SPAM] Re: Fw: Honoring the Sacred Core of Islam
Gary L. Green wrote: Just to be sure you're That kind of person. I'm one too. Never forget my introduction to Zappa. In my teen years listening to the college radio station, someone had the cajones to play Dinah-Mo- Hum. I was hooked. The cover art will keep a stonie entertained for hours. Indeed; I am gross and perverted I'm obsessed and deranged I have existed for years But very little had changed I am the tool of the Government And industry too For I am destined to rule And regulate you I may be vile and pernicious But you can't look away I make you think I'm delicious With the stuff that I say I am the best you can get Have you guessed me yet? I am the slime oozing out of your TV set You will obey me while I lead you eat the garbage that I feed you Until the day that we don't need you Don't got for help no one will heed you Your mind is totally controlled It has been stuffed into my mold And you will do as you are told Until the rights to you are sold I miss Uncle Frank. --in loving memory On 13Apr, 2006, at 3:30 AM, Keith Addison wrote: Keith, Got you copy of Overnight Sensation on the shelves somewhere? Sure do Gary. Why do you ask? ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] [SPAM] Re: Bring the Sixties Out of the Closet
Hallo, Thank you. I am always up for good stuff I haven't heard. I had the good fortune to be born into a family which loved music. I lived the better part of my life with my grandparents (Opa born 1898 Oma 1904) and I grew up listening to their oldies on cylinder records. Then I got all the 78 rpm stuff as well. We lived near Detroit and my mother used to listen to the race stations in Detroit. Then rock and roll came onto the scene and my mother went nuts. Loved it. And when the family got together for the holidays everyone brought their instruments and we all went into the basement and played together. Everyone liked something different so we all listened to it all. I will find what you have suggested and give it a listen if I am able. I may even have the Peter Gabriel album. I haven't looked through my albums in years and back in the '70's I had over 600 albums and tapes stolen from me while I was moving from Detroit to Flint. :o/ It may have been among them. Thank you kindly again. Happy Happy, Gustl Thursday, 13 April, 2006, 22:32:14, you wrote: GLG May I be so bold as to make my own suggestions to you sir? GLG Brian Protheroe: I/You, Pinball GLG Peter Gabriel: The first album only, right after leaving Genesis- GLG very eclectic, even has some barbershop quartet. Everything after GLG that was strictly commercial. GLG On 14 Apr 2006, at 06:26, Gustl Steiner-Zehender wrote: find Willis Alan Ramsey. He only made one album and it had his name. Every song on the thing is a winner. My taste in music is eclectic in the extreme. -- Je mehr wir haben, desto mehr fordert Gott von uns. We can't change the winds but we can adjust our sails. The safest road to Hell is the gradual one - the gentle slope, soft underfoot, without sudden turnings, without milestones, without signposts. C. S. Lewis, The Screwtape Letters Es gibt Wahrheiten, die so sehr auf der Straße liegen, daß sie gerade deshalb von der gewöhnlichen Welt nicht gesehen oder wenigstens nicht erkannt werden. Those who dance are considered insane by those who can't hear the music. George Carlin The best portion of a good man's life - His little, nameless, unremembered acts of kindness and of love. William Wordsworth ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] [SPAM] Re: BYU professor's group accuses U.S.officialsoflyingabout 9/11
On 14 Apr 2006, at 15:45, D. Mindock wrote: We could make progress in the way of gettinga true representative government if: we had a true watchguard media. When, I think it was during the Regan era, they pushed through legislation that allowed the media to be owned by only a few people. I didn't realize at the time that this would be the result. [if] we had representatives in Congress who valued the common man over corporate interests. This is the true crux of the matter, the revolving door between government and industry. When we look at a candidate we need to know who his corporate backing is. Who is he beholding to? This could all be done away with if we have proper funding of elections. Everyone gets the same amount. With some exceptions, the majority is eager or at least amenable by arm twisting, to do corporate bidding. What major politician isn't a corporate stooge? we had a fired up electorate which continuously harassed their Congress reps. This is growing and may our only hope. Yes, I keep writing and calling my lesbian senator from Wisconsin but I never really get replys. Is it at the point of critical ignition? Maybe. It depends on the sensitvity level of our reps. Do they fear not being re-elected enough to do something constructive? Money is in getting into politics and then getting out and collecting that paycheck for life from your corporate buddies. You'd have to say that overall, MLK was a positive agent of change. [snip] His assassination was inevitable. Or at least a real good bet at the time. The U$A is not at peace with itself. I still hear racial slurs these days. It is sickening. How can people let fear and hate fester on for decades? My Chinese wife got called a chink by blacks and in an accident (MVA) she was in, which was causes by a young white kid driving too fast for conditions, the white cop who showed up ignored her and refused to file charges against the kid. My wife was in shock and couldn't get her mouth to work at the time. The cop had left by the time she was coherent. Despite her condition no paramedic was called. Somethings just stay the same. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] BYU professor's group accuses U.S.officialsoflyingabout 9/11
Okay, let's take this in chunks. Not okay: Why not answer the rest of the question Gary? It went like this: snippetysnippetysnip... Snipping's supposed to remove previous irrelevant matter to save space. But you're a compulsive snipper, and not to save space. Then the chunks you're left with aren't quite the same thing, eh? You can just take a little nibble or two in order to spit it out again and leave all the rest snipped by the wayside. It just evades the issue, and among other things somehow leads you to conclude that you're knocking one of my heroes, for heavens sakes. Do you think King Asoka's my hero too? We're not talking about hero-worship. Why don't you try giving a proper response? I'm not going to stitch it all back again, do it yourself. Who said anything about saints? Only you. Who's trying to avoid politics other than you? And who are you trying to tell about media coverage? If you'd been paying a little more attention you might have learnt a little about just what media coverage means and doesn't mean and the role it plays and doesn't play in issues such as these. Not necessarily what you just naturally assume. You have to skip over (snip snip) large chunks (not just niblets) of recent and current history for your view of it to make any sense. It's just prejudice anyway (pre-judgment). Force reality into it if you wish, but you're not persuading anyone but yourself that it fits. Peaceful protest doesn't work, what a load of old bullshit, same with peace with justice doesn't exist. You're talking nonsense. Gandhi I've only got a passing familiarity with, even though he seems to be referred to as the father of non-violent protest. Maybe he was perfect and maybe his followers were never incited to riot or to violence. If so, then in this case I'm wrong. I hope I'm wrong. I'd like to be wrong. I wish my cynical world view was wrong and that if you really are pure of heart then the truth will win out in the end and peace will fall on the land but I guess I just haven't seen it in my life time. There's a difference between cynicism and that last little burst of sarcasm, and cynicism isn't usually so ill-informed either. Maybe you didn't see it because you didn't look or looked the other way? Go and study Gandhi then, you're not qualified to discuss this issue if you know nothing about Gandhi, let alone declaim on it. You share a country with a lot of Indians among others and you don't know from Gandhi? Or from the history of the last 40 years it seems, other than via a keyhole. If you found just one instance of riot or violence being associated with Gandhian protest you'd look no further, that'd be your proof, case rests. Poof, you snap your fingers, and the role of peaceful protest and passive resistance in creating change vanishes, and so today, at this of all crucial junctures in human affairs, you'd leave us with no other tools than a hammer to face a juggernaut. I think you don't really know anything about this. Probably that's what other people said about King at the time and you've thought so ever since. Also please don't just brush things aside. Eg: Peace with justice, D. Mindock Did that ever really exist? You were given some examples, snipping it isn't exactly an acceptable response. Keith Addison Journey to Forever KYOTO Pref., Japan http://journeytoforever.org/ Biofuel list owner Okay, let's take this in chunks. Yes, there is peaceful protest but how effective is it really? It's not. It doesn't get much media coverage and gets ignored or forgotten if it is reported. People Power in the PI? Again the threat of violence was there, there were isolated incidents if I remember correctly. Where MLK went there were often riots, big or small okay, small riot is an oxymoron but you get the idea. MLK spoke constantly of non-violence but there were the agitators in the back that kept things on edge. Did MLK secretly coordinate with them? Who knows. All I'm saying here is without the iron fist inside the silk glove you won't be taken seriously. Sorry if it appears I'm stomping on one of your heros but I see very few people as saints be they good or bad. Politics are everywhere no matter what your agenda be it for good or bad. Someone once said that if you were not into politics, you will be done in by politics. On 14 Apr 2006, at 10:20, Keith Addison wrote: Whenever MLK came to town you knew you either gave him what he wanted or you would have violence on your hands. The man was not a saint but he was very good at what he did. That's why he had to be killed. And so that proves your point, there's no such thing as peaceful protest, it's just a sham? Why not answer the rest of the question Gary? It went like this: ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at
Re: [Biofuel] Oil AND Ethanol out of Corn
Hi Bruno We've been sneering at them for years about this. A couple of years ago I was told some people in US universities were beginning to wonder if maybe there might be a possibility of using the corn oil to make biodiesel instead of just wasting it. I suppose these things take time. Maize is a pretty lousy biofuels crop anyway, ethanol plus biodiesel or not. I don't think the big corn ethanol producers in the US are ever going to get a sustainable act together, they're just the wrong shape. Corn Oil Extraction Systems, Reducing our dependence on foreign oil... LOL! I suppose it makes more sense than burning the corn as heating fuel but I'm not sure how much more. Maybe it just makes less nonsense. Best Keith Is this the way to better economics in BD and ethanol production? From the same corn, they extract first the oil ( for BD production ) and afterwards make ethanol from the starch in it. But they don't tell what the rest product has for value left as cattle feed; after this double extraction. Comments? grts Bruno M. FYI: Corn Oil Extraction Yields New Benefits for Ethanol Producers Several ethanol producers have recently placed orders with Veridium Corporation for the use of a technology that extracts corn oil from distiller's dried grain, an ethanol by-product. The ethanol plants sell the extracted corn oil back to Veridium for additional revenue. Veridium, in turn, sells the corn oil to Mean Green Biofuels, Inc., which is currently selling the corn oil on the open market, but eventually plans to convert the corn oil into biodiesel. Veridium has received five orders for its Corn Oil Extraction Systems, which it installs at no cost in exchange for buying back the corn oil at below-market costs. The company has installed a system at an ethanol plant in North Dakota, and plans to install systems at ethanol plants in Illinois, Minnesota, and Wisconsin later this year. Veridium estimates that the five Corn Oil Extraction Systems now under order could produce as much as 9.7 million gallons of corn oil per year, which the company will sell for more than $1 per gallon. According to the company, the distiller's dried grain produced by today's ethanol industry contains roughly 300 million gallons of corn oil, 75 percent of which can be removed by the extraction process. Once extracted, the corn oil can be converted gallon for gallon into biodiesel. The company says the corn oil extraction process also increases ethanol plant efficiencies, since it reduces the energy required for drying the distiller's grain, which is sold as cattle feed. See the www.veridium.com/news.php Veridium press releases and the www.meangreenbiofuels.com/technologies.php?mode=1 description of the technology on the Mean Green BioFuels Web site. === ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Bring the Sixties Out of the Closet
Hi again Jesse snip (Off-topic??? Grrr!) Sure, just as long as you're blithe about it. I see your Grrr! What, the care and future of the planet is not off-topic, eh? Good point. I guess I was confining my thinking to the Title. Well, that too. snip Balance of idealism and practicality indeed. But what kid is practical? Bringing up the question of when is it that human beings become 1) aware of their mortaility 2) humbled by it 3) able to get anybody to listen to them. Okay, I'll try, though how would I know... When it's too late? Or just in time maybe. This is IMHE the prevailing feeling among very many 20-somethings. A sort of terrible urgency, bordering on despair. But that doesn't strike me as inappropriate right now. This is about the Sixties. Don't trust anyone over 30! they used to say in the Sixties. LOL! But it's a lot easier to get taken seriously after you're 30, suddenly you find you don't have to bother about it much anymore. Hopefully there's still something left by then. You know the old saying: If you're not a liberal when you're 25 there's something wrong with you; if you're still a liberal when you're 35 there's something wrong with you. But that's the if-you-can't-beat-them-join-them school of being taken seriously. Yes, the hard line. Psychologists have said 80% or something of people don't show any significant further character development after the age of 25. So maybe your answer is 25. But idealism? They want to change the world? Not 25 then, not if you're talking of the creative minority. But who'd want to be part of the creative minority anyway? Ahead of their time, out of step with everyone else, and totally essential. Yuk. And never taken seriously. Every peasant village has its innovator farmer, he tinkers with stuff, tries it this way and that way and finds some better answers, but everyone else laughs at him. But it turns out that when their sons grow up and take over they do it the tinker's way, and when someone new suggests something different they say Naah, you're nuts, this is the way our grandfathers and great-grandfathers always did it and it's good enough for us. Why do people forget that? Don't know. Maybe it wouldn't work so well otherwise. My mother was herself arrested in a political demonstration, yet is deeply horrified that my daughter would expose herself to the possibility. Okay, I guess she sees it as a low point in her political career. I got arrested too, in a different sort of political demonstration, but it's just something that happened. There's no dishonour in such an arrest. But there's also Rachel Corrie, and a hell of a lot of other people. That's something to be concerned about. When my friends and I started turning about 50 we started saying things like this, with some dismay: But the more I learn the less I know! LOL! At least it's a bit humble. A guy I worked for once told me I'm the sort of person who never stops learning, which kind of startled me at the time. He wasn't being nice, he was angry with me. With any luck I'll go on knowing less and less until finally I know nothing at all - nirvana! It makes you think of the 80% who stop at 25, maybe it's learning that they stop doing. Well, I have no argument with them at all, and it doesn't have to stop them growing old and wise, and graceful, it seeps in by osmosis anyway. Hope so. Kids, I guess if you just love them it'll all turn out the way it should, imsh'allah. But loving them can be really uphill work, they can sure be hard to like at times. It probably doesn't matter though because the chemo-psychological effects or whatever of the act of having them in the first place turns their parents permanently somewhat nuts so they go right on loving them anyway no matter what, fool me twice doesn't count. It has to work like that or the species would have snuffed it at square two, so nature in her infinite wisdom provides. Yup, a world of heartache. Lots of laughs too, luckily. Well, thanks but no thanks nature. Or was it Darwin. FWIW, from someone who's been one and determinedly avoided having any ever since. Not that I don't like them, of course I like them. But when they're being unlikeable I don't have to be there, among other advantages. They say people who have children and people who don't have children always feel sorry for each other. I think that's really funny! There's certainly regret either way. The way I heard it, those with children and those without ENVY each other. Whoops! There we go. I see I'll have to explain myself. I love lots of my friends and I love their families and their children, but I've never envied anybody for having children. Truly, never. No regret, not even a twinge, not ever. To a lot of parents that simply has to mean I just don't understand, or that I just won't admit it, unless I'm some kind of inhuman
Re: [Biofuel] sustainable biodiesel from Casto : Big is not beautiful, small is more sustainable
Some of my friends here in India (who know more about agriculture than I do) would have me believe that traditionally castor oilseed cakes are allowed to decompose by soaking in a little water for a couple of weeks and then put back into the soil as fertilizer (same as done with mustard oilseed cakes). Apparently it is a very effective organic fertilizer and no ill effects seem to be manifest in the use of the resulting crops. I see no reason to blindly believe that traditional methods are always free of bad effects, however, I understand that castor is a native plant species of India, therefore this practice could well be thousands of years old. May be we have developed an ability to digest ricin :-). Chandan Chandan, that's not far-fetched. Castor oilseed cake does make a good fertiliser. A better way to do it would be to compost it, but the ricin will break down in the soil, there's no danger of your eating ricin with the crops subsequently grown there. By the time the crop roots get there it's not ricin anymore. Indian peasants have long known about many things that science has only belatedly discovered, there are many examples of it. Bad practices usually get sifted out when they don't meet the test of generations, but indeed not always, far from it. The wise and noble peasant is just as much of a myth as the dumb illiterate peasant is. Or rather they both exist. Best Keith Keith Addison wrote: unsnip from previous By using one step simultaneous extraction and esterification , the patented process use crushed seeds to make four products , the BioD , the glycerol , the protein, carbohydrate that seem to deintoxicated for animal feed is now being scaled up to big pilot plant. /unsnip I interpreted this to mean that the crushed seeds are subjected to the alkali catalyst/methanol hence the seedcake is exposed to the reaction. I've seen papers other papers discuss simultaneous extraction/reaction with soya bean flakes. the problem was that much more methanol is need to extract the oil during the processing into biodiesel, partly due to the moisture content of the beans. I'm sure you're right Bob, I have several of those papers. Good explanation, sorry I didn't get it first time. I was looking at other information to check where the ricin was. Thanks! Keith ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
[Biofuel] Fw: Life span of the republic
Greetings, An interesting piece on democracy, slanted to say the least. Bright Blessings, Kim - Original Message - Sent: Wednesday, April 12, 2006 7:52 PM Subject: Life span of the republic And for you purists out there I included the snopes.com url, they have checked this same email out and confirm a lot of it, however there are some figures used in it that don't necessarily jive the way the email would have you believe but it is interesting at the very least. Rick. // www.snopes.com/politics/quotes/tyler.asp The United States is a Republic - but I think you will get the point! How Long Do We Have? About the time our original 13 states adopted their new constitution, in 1787, Alexander Tyler, a Scottish history professor at the University of Edinburgh, had this to say about the fall of the Athenian Republic some 2,000 years prior: A democracy is always temporary in nature; it simply cannot exist as a permanent form of government. A democracy will continue to exist up until the time that voters discover that they can vote themselves generous gifts from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates who promise the most benefits from the public treasury, with the result that every democracy will finally collapse due to loose fiscal policy, which is always followed by a dictatorship. The average age of the worlds greatest civilizations from the beginning of history, has been about 200 years. During those 200 years, these nations always progressed through the following sequence: 1. From bondage to spiritual faith; 2. From spiritual faith to great courage; 3. From courage to liberty; 4. From liberty to abundance; 5. From abundance to complacency; 6. From complacency to apathy; 7. From apathy to dependence; 8. From dependence back into bondage . Professor Joseph Olson of Hamline University School of Law, St. Paul, Minnesota, points out some interesting facts concerning the 2000 Presidential election: Population of counties won by: Gore: 127 million; Bush: 143 million; Square miles of land won by: Gore: 580,000; Bush: 2,427,000 States won by: Gore: 19 Bush: 29 Murder rate per 100,000 residents in counties won by: Gore: 13.2 Bush: 2.1 Professor Olson adds: In aggregate, the map of the territory Bush won was mostly the land owned by the tax-paying citizens of this great country. Gore's territory mostly encompassed those citizens living in government-owned tenements and living off government welfare... Olson believes the United States is now somewhere between the complacency and apathy phase of Professor Tyler's definition of democracy, with some 40 percent of the nation's population already having reached the governmental dependency phase. Pass this along to help everyone realize just how much is at stake, knowing that apathy is the greatest danger to our freedom. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Bring the Sixties Out of the Closet
Howdy Gustl Hallo Jesse, Hey dere! So how's by you, eh? Well, I know a fellow named Mark who used to live in Manchester, Michigan. Wednesday, 12 April, 2006, 18:00:11, you wrote: mm Hi Gustl, Mike, mm No one ever answers my posts (except Keith, our hero), so I can mm blithely write on this delightfully off-topic topic. ...snip... mm Balance of idealism and practicality indeed. But what kid is mm practical? Bringing up the question of when is it that human mm beings become 1) aware of their mortaility 2) humbled by it 3) mm able to get anybody to listen to them. I mean this not mm morphologically, but as a maturity thing. mm Kids today! So accountable! Like THEY have to fix everything. mm While listening to the Beatles!!! (I have not criticized my mm children on this, incidentally, they are still impressed that I mm know all the words.) Well, I just arrived home and downloaded my mail and see that Keith has already answered you. The only things I have to add are that it is the balance which is of primary importance and I like Frank Sinatra as well as Frank Zappa. I can't say I like Frank Sinatra. I do like some of his songs though, and I enjoyed some of his movies. It's the Frank Sinatra ethos I meant really, but I'm sure you got that. We discussed this before, eh, you and me, or something similar. Now I have to add something I wrote underneath, sorry, can't help it. Please see below. Well, I guess I should add that if you want to hear the best album ever recorded, IMNSHO, try and find Willis Alan Ramsey. He only made one album and it had his name. Every song on the thing is a winner. Thankyou! My taste in music is eclectic in the extreme. And mine. We once had to write an essay on our favorite type of music and it wouldn't have taken me an essay to tell that...good music. You know it when you hear it even if you don't understand the language the words are in or recognize the instruments which are being played. ;o) Amongst the things it's not is the pre-digested pap that's packaged for mass consumption and marketed by the trends industry so the merchandising gets leveraged too and so on. There can be exceptions, they do say the most beautiful lotus grows in the dirtiest mud, which may well be true for a lotus but most things like good soil, and that ain't it. Thorny ground. ... even if you don't understand the language the words are in or recognize the instruments which are being played. ;o) Strange you should say that, I want to send you some music that's like that. Two different kinds. But I have to get hold of some gear first, I'm short of some hardware. Midori turns out to be short of the same hardware, we'll do it soon. Regards Keith Hope you get some other answers brother. I can't imagine Keith being the only one to answer any post on this list. hahaha Happy Happy, Gustl -- Dixie Hong Kong, 1995 Dixie is the Cantonese word for taxi, but it's not something you expect to hear in one. But this one was different -- not dixie though, Al Jolson. Al Jolson? In a Hong Kong taxi? Not a radio phone-in, not a chat show, not Canto-pop, but Al Jolson? Toot-toot-tootsie goodbye-yiii... Must be a reality slip -- it's thin stuff, reality, it's hardly there at all really, and it's hardly surprising if it slips sometimes. It's an odd feeling, sort of like a headache in the belly, but without the ache, and not in the belly -- you find yourself looking at the whole thing with deep suspicion, and then you realise you're in a dream, so it's okay if the apples are made of cheese and the restaurant just turned into a swimming pool and so on, only this time you realise you're not in a dream. A bit like the Chinese poet who dreamt he was a butterfly, and when he woke up he couldn't decide whether he was a man dreaming of being a butterfly or a butterfly dreaming of being a man, only I don't think butterflies dream, it would be superfluous. Toot-toot-tootsie don't cry-yiii... Things shimmered slightly like a hologram in an SF movie, then got a grip again. The radio wasn't jammed on the wrong channel, the music was coming from a tape, and the driver was bobbing his head in time, and sort of bobbing the cab through the traffic, also in time. If you don't get a letter then you'll know I'm in jail... That was a good line, I'd forgotten that one. I'd forgotten the song too. I'd even forgotten Al Jolson. And I didn't remember liking his singing much, but that's what I was doing now in this taxi. The song ended. What's the music? I asked. Al Jolson, said the driver. Good-ah? Yes. You like the old music? Yes, modern music, it doesn't, it hasn't got ... I don't like it. I like this music. The tape had moved on to orchestral evergreens. Nice tunes, I said. They are too, that's why they're evergreens, even if they aren't Frank Zappa or Beethoven or even Chuck Berry. I sometimes leave
[Biofuel] was..Oil AND Ethanol out of Corn
related Squeezing Every Drop of Ethanol From Corn http://www.alternate-energy.net/N/news.php?detail=n1141936056.news ---Original Message--- From: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Oil AND Ethanol out of Corn Sent: 14 Apr '06 12:13 Hi Bruno We've been sneering at them for years about this. A couple of years ago I was told some people in US universities were beginning to wonder if maybe there might be a possibility of using the corn oil to make biodiesel instead of just wasting it. I suppose these things take time. Maize is a pretty lousy biofuels crop anyway, ethanol plus biodiesel or not. I don't think the big corn ethanol producers in the US are ever going to get a sustainable act together, they're just the wrong shape. Corn Oil Extraction Systems, Reducing our dependence on foreign oil... LOL! I suppose it makes more sense than burning the corn as heating fuel but I'm not sure how much more. Maybe it just makes less nonsense. Best Keith Is this the way to better economics in BD and ethanol production? From the same corn, they extract first the oil ( for BD production ) and afterwards make ethanol from the starch in it. But they don't tell what the rest product has for value left as cattle feed; after this double extraction. Comments? grts Bruno M. FYI: Corn Oil Extraction Yields New Benefits for Ethanol Producers Several ethanol producers have recently placed orders with Veridium Corporation for the use of a technology that extracts corn oil from distiller's dried grain, an ethanol by-product. The ethanol plants sell the extracted corn oil back to Veridium for additional revenue. Veridium, in turn, sells the corn oil to Mean Green Biofuels, Inc., which is currently selling the corn oil on the open market, but eventually plans to convert the corn oil into biodiesel. Veridium has received five orders for its Corn Oil Extraction Systems, which it installs at no cost in exchange for buying back the corn oil at below-market costs. The company has installed a system at an ethanol plant in North Dakota, and plans to install systems at ethanol plants in Illinois, Minnesota, and Wisconsin later this year. Veridium estimates that the five Corn Oil Extraction Systems now under order could produce as much as 9.7 million gallons of corn oil per year, which the company will sell for more than $1 per gallon. According to the company, the distiller's dried grain produced by today's ethanol industry contains roughly 300 million gallons of corn oil, 75 percent of which can be removed by the extraction process. Once extracted, the corn oil can be converted gallon for gallon into biodiesel. The company says the corn oil extraction process also increases ethanol plant efficiencies, since it reduces the energy required for drying the distiller's grain, which is sold as cattle feed. See the www.veridium.com/news.php Veridium press releases and the www.meangreenbiofuels.com/technologies.php?mode=1 description of the technology on the Mean Green BioFuels Web site. Get your daily alternative energy news Alternate Energy Resource Network 1000+ news sources-resources updated daily http://www.alternate-energy.net Next Generation Grid http://groups.yahoo.com/group/next_generation_grid/ Tomorrow-energy http://groups.yahoo.com/group/tomorrow-energy/ Alternative Energy Politics http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Alternative_Energy_Politics/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Revolution!? [was] BYU professor's group accuses...
LOL!What will they do when they encounter the likes of you?People are products of their environment so, perhaps they'll develop a conscience, eh?Mike "Gary L. Green" [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Damn! Be quiet man. That's my retirement strategy.On 13 Apr 2006, at 22:26, Michael Redler wrote: Canada may see an exodus of stupid white men entering their country from the South. They will deny that they are seeking exile and insist that they are simply moving to the next State.___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] BYU professor's group accuses U.S.officialsoflyingabout 9/11
I have to agreethat social change does not happen with peaceful protests. The people benefiting from the imbalance that causes peaceful protests won't let go so easily (especially when they pay someone to fight their battles).The fight ends up being between the only two forms of power that mean anythingin our society - money and people.When individuals believe they should have more than most, they accumulate wealth and with it, power. Those who are effected by that power and are not wealthy, organize and gather consensus among their fellow citizens.(IMO) the violence starts when the two powers have had time (years) to build. Peaceful protests are a tell-tale, signaling the possibility of violence. The conflict won't end untilantagonists (ruling class)havebecome exhausted from the fight and it's clear that there isn't much (money) left to gain by continuing. The reason for such an imbalance can't be placed squarely on the shoulders of the narcissists who gather wealth for the purpose of projecting power. If citizens played a bigger role in the everyday business of government, the imbalance would be seen earlier and kept from becoming the threat that it is today....my $.02MikeKeith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:Okay, let's take this in chunks.Not okay:Why not answer the rest of the question Gary? It went like this:snippetysnippetysnip...Snipping's supposed to remove previous irrelevant matter to save space. But you're a compulsive snipper, and not to save space. Then the "chunks" you're left with aren't quite the same thing, eh? You can just take a little nibble or two in order to spit it out again and leave all the rest snipped by the wayside.It just evades the issue, and among other things somehow leads you to conclude that you're knocking one of my heroes, for heavens sakes. Do you think King Asoka's my hero too? We're not talking about hero-worship.Why don't you try giving a proper response? I'm not going to stitch it all back again, do it yourself.Who said anything about saints? Only you. Who's trying to avoid politics other than you? And who are you trying to tell about media coverage? If you'd been paying a little more attention you might have learnt a little about just what media coverage means and doesn't mean and the role it plays and doesn't play in issues such as these. Not necessarily what you just naturally assume.You have to skip over (snip snip) large chunks (not just niblets) of recent and current history for your view of it to make any sense. It's just prejudice anyway (pre-judgment). Force reality into it if you wish, but you're not persuading anyone but yourself that it fits.Peaceful protest doesn't work, what a load of old bullshit, same with peace with justice doesn't exist. You're talking nonsense.Gandhi I've only got a passing familiarity with, even though he seems to be referred to as the father of non-violent protest.Maybe he was perfect and maybe his followers were never incited to riot or to violence. If so, then in this case I'm wrong. I hope I'm wrong. I'd like to be wrong. I wish my cynical world view was wrong and that if you really are pure of heart then the truth will win out in the end and peace will fall on the land but I guess I just haven't seen it in my life time.There's a difference between cynicism and that last little burst of sarcasm, and cynicism isn't usually so ill-informed either. Maybe you didn't see it because you didn't look or looked the other way?Go and study Gandhi then, you're not qualified to discuss this issue if you know nothing about Gandhi, let alone declaim on it. You share a country with a lot of Indians among others and you don't know from Gandhi? Or from the history of the last 40 years it seems, other than via a keyhole. If you found just one instance of riot or violence being associated with Gandhian protest you'd look no further, that'd be your proof, case rests. Poof, you snap your fingers, and the role of peaceful protest and passive resistance in creating change vanishes, and so today, at this of all crucial junctures in human affairs, you'd leave us with no other tools than a hammer to face a juggernaut.I think you don't really know anything about this. Probably that's what other people said about King at the time and you've thought so ever since.Also please don't just brush things aside. Eg:Peace with justice, D. MindockDid that ever really exist?You were given some examples, snipping it isn't exactly an acceptable response.Keith AddisonJourney to ForeverKYOTO Pref., Japanhttp://journeytoforever.org/Biofuel list owner[snip]___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] [SPAM] Re: BYU professor's group accuses U.S.officialsoflyingabout 9/11
Gary, It sure would be appreciated if you would substantiate some of your claims. You imply in an almost sweeping manner that the marchers are the ones who provoke and instigate riotous behavior. Seems as if you're almost oblivious to the provocative actions of constabularies and misfits of opposing belief/opinion or just downright agitators who are there for no other reason than to provoke violence for violence sake. Just because agitators generate violence in what starts out and is intended to end as a peaceful protest is not sufficient reason to call it something else. It's not the protest that's violent, it's generally the response. As for declaring that peaceful protest is not effective gives the implication that only violent protest is. And words such as iron fist inside silk glove imply that persons such as King or marchers in general are the ones out to provoke - that the intent is there before the first shoe lace was tied that morning. This isn't a matter of stomping on anyone, much less anyone's heroes. This is nonsense and propagandizing of the highest order. It's almost starting to come across as if your politics are of a firm proponent of installing designated protest areas, replete with 10' tall fences lined with razor wire, three miles away from where a protest might be effectlively conducted. Something tells me that as a police chief, Mr. Green, that you might all too readily forget the freedoms that are accorded to citizens in some countries, even to the point of helping to instigate and/or elevate problems that need neither occur nor get out of hand. Such a hand is what proves to be the iron hand - usually a hand found at a high vantage point, orchestrating pointed strikes/arrests. God help the bystander or pedestrian or someone not smoking a hand made instead of a tailor made on such a day, because that's how little it takes to get your skull caved in. Todd Swearingen Gary L. Green wrote: Okay, let's take this in chunks. Yes, there is peaceful protest but how effective is it really? It's not. It doesn't get much media coverage and gets ignored or forgotten if it is reported. People Power in the PI? Again the threat of violence was there, there were isolated incidents if I remember correctly. Where MLK went there were often riots, big or small okay, small riot is an oxymoron but you get the idea. MLK spoke constantly of non-violence but there were the agitators in the back that kept things on edge. Did MLK secretly coordinate with them? Who knows. All I'm saying here is without the iron fist inside the silk glove you won't be taken seriously. Sorry if it appears I'm stomping on one of your heros but I see very few people as saints be they good or bad. Politics are everywhere no matter what your agenda be it for good or bad. Someone once said that if you were not into politics, you will be done in by politics. On 14 Apr 2006, at 10:20, Keith Addison wrote: Whenever MLK came to town you knew you either gave him what he wanted or you would have violence on your hands. The man was not a saint but he was very good at what he did. That's why he had to be killed. And so that proves your point, there's no such thing as peaceful protest, it's just a sham? Why not answer the rest of the question Gary? It went like this: ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.385 / Virus Database: 268.4.0/306 - Release Date: 4/9/2006 ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] BYU professor's group accuses U.S.officialsoflyingabout 9/11
I was in New York City on the second anniversary of the invasion in Iraq. There was a sea of people that stretched for as far as one could see. The estimates were around 80,000.80,000loud and angry protestors and it barely made the news!Mike"D. Mindock" [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Gary,Peaceful protests are seen by folks on the street. So there is a positive effect. The media tends to downgrade the number ofprotesters if it mentions them at all. If protests get really big, over 100,000 people, I can't seehow they can't be covered. If there is police action involved, I doubt that'll get covered correctly.The tendency is to make the protesters the guilty party whether true or not to give the policesympathy. The mainstream media is terribly biased in favor of the officials in every case. So, aprotest, because of the media's representation, could well backfire.We have a bunch of Catch-22's here in the U$A. We could make progress in the way of gettinga true representative government if:we had a true watchguard media. Except for minor exceptions,we don't.we had real candidates. We do have a few progressives this time around. (need election reform)see: http://www.pdamerica.org/we had representatives in Congress who valued the common man over corporate interests. Withsome exceptions, the majority is eager or at least amenable by arm twisting, to do corporate bidding.we had a fired up electorate which continuously harassed their Congress reps. This is growingand may our only hope. Is it at the point of critical ignition? Maybe. It depends on the sensitvitylevel of our reps. Do they fear not being re-elected enough to do something constructive?we had a reliable voting system. Some states have disavowed use of those touchscreen machinesproduced by partisan Repug owners. So this is improving. Legislation is in Congress to give us avoting system with reliable audit trail capabilty. Will it be passed in time to get the machinesretrofitted in time for the November 2006 elections? I don't know. Since Repugs likely will needmachines that could add some needed votes to get them over the top, they'd benefit by draggingtheir collective feet, something they excell in.There is a groundswell of emotion against the Repugs this time around. Five states are calling for theimpeachment of our War President. Getting some progressiveliberal Democrats into Congress, enough to give them the Democrats could change things in a hurry.Democrats like Liebermann and Clinton are like clinkers, not good for much. But in any regard,it could be the beginning of the end of corporate controlled Congress.You'd have to say that overall, MLK was a positive agent of change. Riots/fights are just about unavoidablewhen you have two highly polarized groups. The riots showed that MLK was on the correct path.His speeches were works of spiritual art.He was a pretty brave person, to walk out in front, with highly inflammed people at the side of the parade, whoabsolutely hated every cell in his body. His assassination was inevitable. The U$A is not at peace withitself. I still hear racial slurs these days. It is sickening. How can people let fear and hate fester on fordecades?Peace progress, D. Mindock[snip]___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] [SPAM] Re: [SPAM] Re: BYU professor's group accuses U.S.officialsoflyingabout 9/11
Gary Green, All I can say is that you're one twisted puppy, or at least you're dedicated to that direction. A peaceful march that gets dogs, battans and boots set upon them is not something that can be honestly be blamed as causal. But you choose to do so, decidedly noting that the bee was already in their bonnet, almost implying that it's their fault for just being their. Or is it for just being? And unrest? You're labeling that as riotous behavior? Disatisfaction is grounds for stitches, casts and steel skull plates? You miss all the colors in the spectrum save for the two ends. And even then you try to paint both black and white in some perverse distortion of gray. Relative to Martin Luther King? I didn't say he should die. No. You said That's why he had to be killed. As in necessary, mandatory, no option. And as for your exactly? Don't get carried away with yourself, thinking that you can snip and twist what I've written so that it appears to be in accord with your peculiar beliefs. When I wrote Something about having a foot in the middle of your back just doesn't cotton too well towards the idea of peace. I meant it literally. Doubtful that even your well-honed mind would sit their calmly with a trained police dog munching and shredding your leg while Billy and Joe Bob smash everything in swinging distance of a battan, inclusive of your spine. My bet is that you take great joy in this little game your playing, a useless drain on other people's time and almost a complete waste, other than exposing how singular your focus is, or that it's just chain jerking that you're about. Todd Swearingen Gary L. Green wrote: On 14 Apr 2006, at 11:05, Appal Energy wrote: Whenever MLK came to town you knew you either gave him what he wanted or you would have violence on your hands. Violence at who's initiation? snip Something about having a foot in the middle of your back just doesn't cotton too well towards the idea of peace. Exactly. I'm saying he didn't lead a band of trained peace protesters, there were those but not all. The majority were regular folk, of whatever race, that were pissed that things were the way they were and if they didn't see things progressing they were prone to display their displeasure. When I read about MLK, I also read about unrest. That's why he had to be killed. Excuse me? Advocating equality is justification for murder? Let me guess..., I misunderstand what you wrote. Todd Swearingen Maybe. He was a proponent for change, for equality. In the great scheme of U.S. empire building that comes contrary to profit. I'm saying the same people that had Kennedy killed had MLK killed. Justified? I never said that. I didn't say he should die. I said that the powers that be were not about to leave him alive. Gary ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] galvanized tanks
I tend to stay away from galvanized - stick it in the sun. Andrew Leven wrote: Hi , I just finished bubblewashing a 30L batch of bio but it is still cloudy. I have a galvanized tank from an old jet pump setup that is ported ideally for plumbing and adding a heating element. I want to use it for a clarifying tank but am unsure whether the galvy will react with my bio. Anybody have any info on this? Andrew Leven ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
[Biofuel] MLK Thread
Whenever MLK came to town you knew you either gave him whathe wanted or you would have violence on your hands. Hogwash. MLK advocated non-violence. But, MLK was not in charge of every element of the Civil Rights movement. He was a leader to many, but not a commander to all. If some members of the community wanted to riot, MLK could not just issue an order and stop them. Look up Bull Connor MLK and his marcher were not *allowed* to have a peaceful march. I think reading a little history might save you future embarrassment. Appal Energy wrote: Gary Green, All I can say is that you're one twisted puppy, or at least you're dedicated to that direction. A peaceful march that gets dogs, battans and boots set upon them is not something that can be honestly be blamed as causal. But you choose to do so, decidedly noting that the bee was already in their bonnet, almost implying that it's their fault for just being their. Or is it for just being? And unrest? You're labeling that as riotous behavior? Disatisfaction is grounds for stitches, casts and steel skull plates? You miss all the colors in the spectrum save for the two ends. And even then you try to paint both black and white in some perverse distortion of gray. Relative to Martin Luther King? I didn't say he should die. No. You said That's why he had to be killed. As in necessary, mandatory, no option. And as for your exactly? Don't get carried away with yourself, thinking that you can snip and twist what I've written so that it appears to be in accord with your peculiar beliefs. When I wrote Something about having a foot in the middle of your back just doesn't cotton too well towards the idea of peace. I meant it literally. Doubtful that even your well-honed mind would sit their calmly with a trained police dog munching and shredding your leg while Billy and Joe Bob smash everything in swinging distance of a battan, inclusive of your spine. My bet is that you take great joy in this little game your playing, a useless drain on other people's time and almost a complete waste, other than exposing how singular your focus is, or that it's just chain jerking that you're about. Todd Swearingen Gary L. Green wrote: On 14 Apr 2006, at 11:05, Appal Energy wrote: Whenever MLK came to town you knew you either gave him what he wanted or you would have violence on your hands. Violence at who's initiation? snip Something about having a foot in the middle of your back just doesn't cotton too well towards the idea of peace. Exactly. I'm saying he didn't lead a band of trained peace protesters, there were those but not all. The majority were regular folk, of whatever race, that were pissed that things were the way they were and if they didn't see things progressing they were prone to display their displeasure. When I read about MLK, I also read about unrest. That's why he had to be killed. Excuse me? Advocating equality is justification for murder? Let me guess..., I misunderstand what you wrote. Todd Swearingen Maybe. He was a proponent for change, for equality. In the great scheme of U.S. empire building that comes contrary to profit. I'm saying the same people that had Kennedy killed had MLK killed. Justified? I never said that. I didn't say he should die. I said that the powers that be were not about to leave him alive. Gary ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Fw: Life span of the republic
Kim Did you even look at the snopes reference yourself? It's hard to believe you did and still posted this. Snopes doesn't confirm a lot of it as Rick claims. It's not slanted, it's just a pack of lies, and it's about five and a half years past its use-by date. http://www.snopes.com/politics/quotes/tyler.asp Urban Legends Reference Pages: Politics (The Fall of the Athenian Republic) Claim: Law professor demonstrates that the results of the 2000 presidential election correspond to an 18th century historian's prediction of conditions accompanying the downfall of democracy. snip In other words, he got the same legend e-mailed to him and passed it on to [law professor] Olson without checking it out, and when Olson passed it on, someone thought it sounded better if a law professor had done the research, and so it grew. Who knows where it originally came from, but it's just not true. If you did look at it you certainly should have warned about that right on top but you didn't mention it. Even if you swallowed Rick's line about snopes, didn't this set off warning bells? Pass this along to help everyone realize just how much is at stake, knowing that apathy is the greatest danger to our freedom. When you see pass this along to all your friends!, or send this to everyone in your address book! there's probably a better than 50-50 chance that a visit to snopes will not be in vain. I've warned about it before, please don't send messages with footnotes like that to the list. Hm. Previously you were saying colonisation is good for human rights and so on. You told me: I know history quite well, thank you. At times I think better than you. But, I can see hope for humanity, I don't think you can. Now you're quoting a misnamed historian as saying things he didn't say, you didn't check it, but it sure does try to lend some support to some of your views. Would that be including what 18th-century Scottish historian Alexander Fraser Tytler (not Tyler) never did imply right at the top, that humans can't do democracy because they're just too venal at heart? You've also said having lots of guns about the place stops people getting shot better than not having any guns around does, or however it's supposed to go, Charlton Heston's line, and you've said strange things about poverty and welfare too. Do you go along with what not-Tyler didn't actually say? If not then how come you seem to have swallowed this obvious bit of disinfo so easily? Whose agenda does it fit, Kim? History, well. No historian since 1947 writes about the rise and fall of civilisations without reference to Arnold Toynbee. Someone who doesn't question the worlds greatest civilizations being described in the next line as these nations doesn't know much about history, but might enjoy reading Toynbee's A Study of History. It's in 12 volumes, but Somervell abridged it to two volumes and got an admiring foreword from Toynbee, you can get them in paperback at Amazon. From which a rather different view emerges than your imposter would have you believe, hard to find any hopelessness in it. Will that make it hard to swallow? Why don't you dump all the spin stuff and find out what you really think? You're not poisonous but this stuff is. For general disabusement about history Mr Wells's Outline of History is still the first resource. A Short History of the World, the abridged version that followed it, is now available free online in full-text with a search box. The two books work well in combination. http://www.bartleby.com/86/ Wells, H.G. 1922. A Short History of the World Well, they're friendly, but, The shit they believe Has got their minds all shut - Frank Zappa Best Keith Greetings, An interesting piece on democracy, slanted to say the least. Bright Blessings, Kim - Original Message - Sent: Wednesday, April 12, 2006 7:52 PM Subject: Life span of the republic And for you purists out there I included the snopes.com url, they have checked this same email out and confirm a lot of it, however there are some figures used in it that don't necessarily jive the way the email would have you believe but it is interesting at the very least. Rick. // www.snopes.com/politics/quotes/tyler.asp The United States is a Republic - but I think you will get the point! How Long Do We Have? About the time our original 13 states adopted their new constitution, in 1787, Alexander Tyler, a Scottish history professor at the University of Edinburgh, had this to say about the fall of the Athenian Republic some 2,000 years prior: A democracy is always temporary in nature; it simply cannot exist as a permanent form of government. A democracy will continue to exist up until the time that voters discover that they can vote themselves generous gifts from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates who promise the most benefits from the public treasury, with the result
Re: [Biofuel] BYU professor's group accuses U.S.officialsoflyingabout 9/11
I have to agree that social change does not happen with peaceful protests. Social change does not ONLY happen with peaceful protest. And peaceful protest does most certainly happen. The people benefiting from the imbalance that causes peaceful protests won't let go so easily (especially when they pay someone to fight their battles). The fight ends up being between the only two forms of power that mean anything in our society - money and people. When individuals believe they should have more than most, they accumulate wealth and with it, power. Those who are effected by that power and are not wealthy, organize and gather consensus among their fellow citizens. (IMO) the violence starts when the two powers have had time (years) to build. Peaceful protests are a tell-tale, signaling the possibility of violence. They signal the failure of the system to deliver on its promises, so alternative means must be found of bringing public opinion to bear on public events, and peaceful protest is one of them. The conflict won't end until antagonists (ruling class) have become exhausted from the fight and it's clear that there isn't much (money) left to gain by continuing. That's how it's been in the past, but despite all the apparently lost battles what history shows nonetheless is a steady pushing forward of the frontiers of human rights. That all the battles of the past have been lost (they weren't) wouldn't necessarily mean that the next one will be the same, especially not when there are some really new factors in the mix, which there are. The whole long 10,000-year war could be won or lost now, not just a battle. The reason for such an imbalance can't be placed squarely on the shoulders of the narcissists who gather wealth for the purpose of projecting power. If citizens played a bigger role in the everyday business of government, the imbalance would be seen earlier and kept from becoming the threat that it is today. Why do they consent to leaving it all to the government and the authorities in the first place? That's just what Edward Bernays said he invented public relations to achieve after all. Best Keith ...my $.02 Mike Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Okay, let's take this in chunks. Not okay: Why not answer the rest of the question Gary? It went like this: snippetysnippetysnip... Snipping's supposed to remove previous irrelevant matter to save space. But you're a compulsive snipper, and not to save space. Then the chunks you're left with aren't quite the same thing, eh? You can just take a little nibble or two in order to spit it out again and leave all the rest snipped by the wayside. It just evades the issue, and among other things somehow leads you to conclude that you're knocking one of my heroes, for heavens sakes. Do you think King Asoka's my hero too? We're not talking about hero-worship. Why don't you try giving a proper response? I'm not going to stitch it all back again, do it yourself. Who said anything about saints? Only you. Who's trying to avoid politics other than you? And who are you trying to tell about media coverage? If you'd been paying a little more attention you might have learnt a little about just what media coverage means and doesn't mean and the role it plays and doesn't play in issues such as these. Not necessarily what you just naturally assume. You have to skip over (snip snip) large chunks (not just niblets) of recent and current history for your view of it to make any sense. It's just prejudice anyway (pre-judgment). Force reality into it if you wish, but you're not persuading anyone but yourself that it fits. Peaceful protest doesn't work, what a load of old bullshit, same with peace with justice doesn't exist. You're talking nonsense. Gandhi I've only got a passing familiarity with, even though he seems to be referred to as the father of non-violent protest. Maybe he was perfect and maybe his followers were never incited to riot or to violence. If so, then in this case I'm wrong. I hope I'm wrong. I'd like to be wrong. I wish my cynical world view was wrong and that if you really are pure of heart then the truth will win out in the end and peace will fall on the land but I guess I just haven't seen it in my life time. There's a difference between cynicism and that last little burst of sarcasm, and cynicism isn't usually so ill-informed either. Maybe you didn't see it because you didn't look or looked the other way? Go and study Gandhi then, you're not qualified to discuss this issue if you know nothing about Gandhi, let alone declaim on it. You share a country with a lot of Indians among others and you don't know from Gandhi? Or from the history of the last 40 years it seems, other than via a keyhole. If you found just one instance of riot or violence being associated with Gandhian protest you'd look no further, that'd be your proof, case rests. Poof, you snap your fingers, and the role of peaceful protest
[Biofuel] pressure stoves ???
Hello Keith, I am having trouble to find pressure stove suitable for BD. I have browsed through the links from JTF with little sucess. The PETROMAX is quite expensive and is out of stock anyway. others I find come with wick which you say is not working with BD On JTF website you write thatyour pressure stove is from India. I like that type ( acording to the picters) and would like to buy some (3-5) pieces depending on the price / availability. I would appreciate any info you can give me on the source of yours. (email address, or phone, or fax) I live in Hungary and most of the US websites does not deliver here. I plan to upgrade my 60L reactor to a 250L and I would like to switch from electric heating to an indirect heating system through a heat exchanger that I designed this involves suncollectors, puffer tanks, and presure stoves. I plan to post the design ( if successfull ) so that all can produce BD with minimal or zero energy cost. any help from list members will be appreciated. Kind regards, András Tonomár energetic engeneer ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
[Biofuel] Xenophobic email for 'Merikans - tax question
I have been keeping track of the BD I am burning in my car - it's not much - does anyone know how to pay the sales tax due? -Mike ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] galvanized tanks
Hi Andrew Hi , I just finished bubblewashing a 30L batch of bio but it is still cloudy. If it doesn't clear on its own in a couple of days you'll have to wash it more and it might indicate a completion problem. Please see Bubble washing: http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_bubblewash.html#bubble You might prefer an alternative. I have a galvanized tank from an old jet pump setup that is ported ideally for plumbing and adding a heating element. I want to use it for a clarifying tank but am unsure whether the galvy will react with my bio. Anybody have any info on this? Andrew Leven Lye eats zinc. Best Keith ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] pressure stoves ???
Hello Andrés Hello Keith, I am having trouble to find pressure stove suitable for BD. I have browsed through the links from JTF with little sucess. The PETROMAX is quite expensive and is out of stock anyway. others I find come with wick which you say is not working with BD Not as-is anyway. On JTF website you write that your pressure stove is from India. I like that type ( acording to the picters) and would like to buy some (3-5) pieces depending on the price / availability. They cost about US$10 equivalent in India. You can get them locally-made in a lot of countries, but not the industrialised countries. I would appreciate any info you can give me on the source of yours. (email address, or phone, or fax) No information, sorry. These are the only addresses I have: http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_make2.html#lamps Maybe someone in India or the Philippines or Singapore might like to help you. I live in Hungary and most of the US websites does not deliver here. I wonder if there aren't still local factories in Eastern Europe making pressure stoves. I would have guessed there would be, but maybe not. Good luck. Best Keith I plan to upgrade my 60L reactor to a 250L and I would like to switch from electric heating to an indirect heating system through a heat exchanger that I designed this involves suncollectors, puffer tanks, and presure stoves. I plan to post the design ( if successfull ) so that all can produce BD with minimal or zero energy cost. any help from list members will be appreciated. Kind regards, Andr·s Tonom·r energetic engeneer ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
[Biofuel] [Fwd: [just_biodiesel] California residents: SB1511 hearing on the 18th you can write to the committee]
Original Message Subject:[just_biodiesel] California residents: SB1511 hearing on the 18th you can write to the committee Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2006 10:03:03 -0700 (PDT) From: K Lemons [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Eric Bowen [EMAIL PROTECTED], Kimber Holmes [EMAIL PROTECTED], Kalib [EMAIL PROTECTED], Spike Lewis [EMAIL PROTECTED], Jennifer Radtke [EMAIL PROTECTED], SaraHope Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED], Sienna Wildwind [EMAIL PROTECTED], Gretchen Zimmerman [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED], Altfuelvehicles yahoo group [EMAIL PROTECTED], Biodiesel yahoo group [EMAIL PROTECTED], Biodiesel Basics Yahoo Group [EMAIL PROTECTED], Biodiesel Biofuels Yahoo Group [EMAIL PROTECTED], Biodieselcouncil yahoo group [EMAIL PROTECTED], biofuel-business-plan yahoo group [EMAIL PROTECTED], CAFFI yahoo group [EMAIL PROTECTED], Inland Empire Biodiesel coop yahoo group [EMAIL PROTECTED], JustBiodiesel yahoo group [EMAIL PROTECTED], localB100Biz Yahoo Group [EMAIL PROTECTED], marinbiodiesel yahoo group [EMAIL PROTECTED], paloaltobiodiesel yahoo group [EMAIL PROTECTED], SF Biofuels yahoo group [EMAIL PROTECTED], socalbiodiesel yahoo group [EMAIL PROTECTED] SB1511 is a emergency bill being brought before the transportation commitee on the 18th go here and read the amended text. http://www.aroundthecapitol.com/Bills/SB_1511 This bill covers both ethanol and biodiesel. It is forcing the ARB to act in relation to this bills passage. The ARB has been sitting on renewable fuels for a long time, this makes them set standards for the fuels by 2007 so they can come to market. On the right of this page there is a button to send a email to the committee. Please do so before the 18th so they can take it into consideration at the hearing. These comments get entered into the testimony record. Talk about your personal experience with the fuel. If you run a co-op mention how many cars are members and how much fuel per month you sell. Tell them you are part of the varience. These are influential pieces of information. Also please copy your comments to all your legislators, so they know you are involved on this topic. find them here http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/yourleg.html This bill covers both ethanol and biodiesel. It is forcing the ARB to act in relation to this bills passage. The ARB has been sitting on renewable fuels for a long time, this makes them set standards for the fuel by 2007 so it can come to market. Kari Lemons Outreach and Education Director Biodiesel Council of California [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] To learn more about the just_biodiesel group, please visit http://groups.yahoo.com/group/just_biodieselmore about the just_biodiesel group, please visit http://groups.yahoo.com/group/just_biodiesel Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/just_biodiesel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] pressure stoves ???
I have a PetroMax and have had no luck w/ BD. I am not sure if it is the stove or not - I cleaned it and tried petro diesel with no luck, then ISO and got an ok flame. I will try again now that things are warm. FWIW, I never was able to get a flame at all w/ diesel BD or otherwise w/o heating with a torch. -Mike Keith Addison wrote: Hello Andrés Hello Keith, I am having trouble to find pressure stove suitable for BD. I have browsed through the links from JTF with little sucess. The PETROMAX is quite expensive and is out of stock anyway. others I find come with wick which you say is not working with BD Not as-is anyway. On JTF website you write that your pressure stove is from India. I like that type ( acording to the picters) and would like to buy some (3-5) pieces depending on the price / availability. They cost about US$10 equivalent in India. You can get them locally-made in a lot of countries, but not the industrialised countries. I would appreciate any info you can give me on the source of yours. (email address, or phone, or fax) No information, sorry. These are the only addresses I have: http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_make2.html#lamps Maybe someone in India or the Philippines or Singapore might like to help you. I live in Hungary and most of the US websites does not deliver here. I wonder if there aren't still local factories in Eastern Europe making pressure stoves. I would have guessed there would be, but maybe not. Good luck. Best Keith I plan to upgrade my 60L reactor to a 250L and I would like to switch from electric heating to an indirect heating system through a heat exchanger that I designed this involves suncollectors, puffer tanks, and presure stoves. I plan to post the design ( if successfull ) so that all can produce BD with minimal or zero energy cost. any help from list members will be appreciated. Kind regards, Andr·s Tonom·r energetic engeneer ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
[Biofuel] Stand up and be counted
Just wondering how many UK home brewers are on this mailing list. Please make yourselves known, especially if you are interested in forming a buyers cooperative to get bulk discounts on chemicals, plant, feedstock, glycerol disposal etc. I am even volunteering to do most of the donkey work. Cheers Bob ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] sustainable biodiesel from Casto : Big is not beautiful, small is more sustainable
I understand that lubricity has to do with the ability of the oil to maintain a lubricating film under pressure. Viscosity has to do with how readily the oil flows. They are not related. An early detailed study of the properties of lubricants was done by Ricardo Engineering for the British Air Ministry in the 1920's. I'm sure there has been a lot done since. Doug Woodard St. Catharines, Ontario On Thu, 13 Apr 2006, Keith Addison wrote: [snip] ...the difference between lubricity and viscosity isn't that clear, or at least not to me, especially when you add high temperatures. Anyone know better? ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Xenophobic email for 'Merikans - tax question
Howdy Mike, I once contacted the tax folks in Arkansas about this issue and they basically said go away. They have no mechanism for collecting road taxes in Arkansas for non-traditional fuels. And until there is evidence for enough tax collection to justify the salary and benefits for a clerk to take care of the tax collection, it won't happen. It may even require legislation to define how to tax it. Federal taxes I don't know about, but as someone else mentioned in a post just today or so, there may be some sort of exemption for small produces. Similar to tax exemptions for small scale beer and wine production? Mike Weaver wrote: I have been keeping track of the BD I am burning in my car - it's not much - does anyone know how to pay the sales tax due? -Mike ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ -- Bob Allen http://ozarker.org/bob Science is what we have learned about how to keep from fooling ourselves — Richard Feynman ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Xenophobic email for 'Merikans - tax question
Thank you - I was wondering about federal taxes bob allen wrote: Howdy Mike, I once contacted the tax folks in Arkansas about this issue and they basically said go away. They have no mechanism for collecting road taxes in Arkansas for non-traditional fuels. And until there is evidence for enough tax collection to justify the salary and benefits for a clerk to take care of the tax collection, it won't happen. It may even require legislation to define how to tax it. Federal taxes I don't know about, but as someone else mentioned in a post just today or so, there may be some sort of exemption for small produces. Similar to tax exemptions for small scale beer and wine production? Mike Weaver wrote: I have been keeping track of the BD I am burning in my car - it's not much - does anyone know how to pay the sales tax due? -Mike ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] [Fwd: [just_biodiesel] California residents: SB1511 hearing on the 18th you can write to the committee]
SB1511 is a emergency bill being brought before the transportation commitee on the 18th go here and read the amended text. http://www.aroundthecapitol.com/Bills/SB_1511 This bill covers both ethanol and biodiesel. It is forcing the ARB to act in relation to this bills passage. The ARB has been sitting on renewable fuels for a long time, this makes them set standards for the fuels by 2007 so they can come to market. On the right of this page there is a button to send a email to the committee. Please do so before the 18th so they can take it into consideration at the hearing. These comments get entered into the testimony record. Talk about your personal experience with the fuel. If you run a co-op mention how many cars are members and how much fuel per month you sell. Tell them you are part of the varience. These are influential pieces of information. Also please copy your comments to all your legislators, so they know you are involved on this topic. Stick your heads up, little 100 blossoms blooming, that's right, nothing to be afraid of - snippetysnippetysnip. Next! Think I'll stay un-outreached. They probably won't hear much from the ethanol crew, they're wise to this game. We don't even hear much from them here, though they're here and a-doing. Cars are members, a email, involved on, varience, hm. Think I'll stay educationally undirected too. May your revolution be a quiet one. Best Keith find them here http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/yourleg.html This bill covers both ethanol and biodiesel. It is forcing the ARB to act in relation to this bills passage. The ARB has been sitting on renewable fuels for a long time, this makes them set standards for the fuel by 2007 so it can come to market. Kari Lemons Outreach and Education Director Biodiesel Council of California ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] pressure stoves ???
Should be noted that Petromax is now a generic name for that type of lantern, with quite wide variations available, all called Petromax. BriteLyt makes the original. Their stove is a newer patented design, not generic. I have a PetroMax and have had no luck w/ BD. I am not sure if it is the stove or not - I cleaned it and tried petro diesel with no luck, then ISO and got an ok flame. I will try again now that things are warm. FWIW, I never was able to get a flame at all w/ diesel BD or otherwise w/o heating with a torch. -Mike I think you got a dud though. Let's see what BriteLyt says. They should give you a replacement and an apology, IMO. Best Keith Keith Addison wrote: Hello Andrés Hello Keith, I am having trouble to find pressure stove suitable for BD. I have browsed through the links from JTF with little sucess. The PETROMAX is quite expensive and is out of stock anyway. others I find come with wick which you say is not working with BD Not as-is anyway. On JTF website you write that your pressure stove is from India. I like that type ( acording to the picters) and would like to buy some (3-5) pieces depending on the price / availability. They cost about US$10 equivalent in India. You can get them locally-made in a lot of countries, but not the industrialised countries. I would appreciate any info you can give me on the source of yours. (email address, or phone, or fax) No information, sorry. These are the only addresses I have: http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_make2.html#lamps Maybe someone in India or the Philippines or Singapore might like to help you. I live in Hungary and most of the US websites does not deliver here. I wonder if there aren't still local factories in Eastern Europe making pressure stoves. I would have guessed there would be, but maybe not. Good luck. Best Keith I plan to upgrade my 60L reactor to a 250L and I would like to switch from electric heating to an indirect heating system through a heat exchanger that I designed this involves suncollectors, puffer tanks, and presure stoves. I plan to post the design ( if successfull ) so that all can produce BD with minimal or zero energy cost. any help from list members will be appreciated. Kind regards, Andr·s Tonom·r energetic engeneer ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] BYU professor's group accuses U.S.officialsoflyingabout 9/11
Keith Addison wrote: Okay, let's take this in chunks. Not okay: Why not answer the rest of the question Gary? It went like this: snippetysnippetysnip... Snipping's supposed to remove previous irrelevant matter to save space. But you're a compulsive snipper, and not to save space. Then the chunks you're left with aren't quite the same thing, eh? You know, I never really belived this until now. I've always used snipping to keep the space down. I keep things I will comment upon, and snip out the stuff I am unable/unwilling/can't comment on. Usually, if I concurr with my debating opponents point, I make note of that. It never occured to me to use snipping as editorial re-wording, in order to twist the debate back into a structure that more fits my point of view. That's intellectually dishonest. I'll certainly watch for that in the future. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Stand up and be counted
Just wondering how many UK home brewers are on this mailing list. Please make yourselves known, especially if you are interested in forming a buyers cooperative to get bulk discounts on chemicals, plant, feedstock, glycerol disposal etc. I am even volunteering to do most of the donkey work. Cheers Bob Oy, another one, one hundred more blossoms lining up to have their heads lopped off. Keith ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] BYU professor's group accuses U.S.officialsoflyingabout 9/11
Keith,Thanks for correcting my sentence, missing the word "only". Yep, peaceful protests do happen and I didn't articulate that very clearly. Kinda funny since I participate in them from time to time.MikeKeith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:I have to agree that social change does not happen with peaceful protests.Social change does not ONLY happen with peaceful protest. And peaceful protest does most certainly happen.The people benefiting from the imbalance that causes peaceful protests won't let go so easily (especially when they pay someone to fight their battles).The fight ends up being between the only two forms of power that mean anything in our society - money and people. When individuals believe they should have more than most, they accumulate wealth and with it, power. Those who are effected by that power and are not wealthy, organize and gather consensus among their fellow citizens.(IMO) the violence starts when the two powers have had time (years) to build. Peaceful protests are a tell-tale, signaling the possibility of violence.They signal the failure of the system to deliver on its promises, so alternative means must be found of bringing public opinion to bear on public events, and peaceful protest is one of them.The conflict won't end until antagonists (ruling class) have become exhausted from the fight and it's clear that there isn't much (money) left to gain by continuing.That's how it's been in the past, but despite all the apparently lost battles what history shows nonetheless is a steady pushing forward of the frontiers of human rights. That all the battles of the past have been lost (they weren't) wouldn't necessarily mean that the next one will be the same, especially not when there are some really new factors in the mix, which there are. The whole long 10,000-year war could be won or lost now, not just a battle.The reason for such an imbalance can't be placed squarely on the shoulders of the narcissists who gather wealth for the purpose of projecting power. If citizens played a bigger role in the everyday business of government, the imbalance would be seen earlier and kept from becoming the threat that it is today.Why do they consent to leaving it all to the government and the authorities in the first place? That's just what Edward Bernays said he invented public relations to achieve after all.BestKeith...my $.02Mike [snip]___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] BYU professor's group accuses U.S.officialsoflyingabout 9/11
Gary Okay, let's take this in chunks. Okay, let's take this recent chunk then, from Peter Solem: Today on the University of California, Santa Cruz campus, an organized group of student protestors succeded in shutting down the campus job fair until the military recruiters were forced to leave! One student who was taking photos of police surveillance officers was arrested, but the students surrounded the building he was in and eventually the student was released, apparently without charges. This is just a little thing in practical terms, but a huge thing in symbolic terms. If we keep it up, Bush won't dare bomb Iran (we hope). Waking up is a reality! http://snipurl.com/p780 [Biofuel] [Fwd: [IP] Is the US preparing to bomb Iran?] Tue Apr 11 2006 Please apply your thinking to this case. Was it useless? Was it just a riot waiting for an excuse to happen? Was it all a waste of time and effort anyway because it didn't make Page 1 in the NYT and FauxTV didn't run a special? How many hundreds of similar incidents have happened worldwide this week? But it doesn't matter anyway because they didn't make Page 1 or a FauxTV special either so they might as well not have happened for all the good they did, right? Do you agree with all that? You should do, it's what you've been saying. Or will you say it's just an exception that proves the rule or some such similarly specious nonsense? Meanwhile you're sitting there in your pontificator's armchair suitably buttressed with cushions and comfortable assumptions and telling yourself you're part of the solution not the problem eh? Keith Not okay: Why not answer the rest of the question Gary? It went like this: snippetysnippetysnip... Snipping's supposed to remove previous irrelevant matter to save space. But you're a compulsive snipper, and not to save space. Then the chunks you're left with aren't quite the same thing, eh? You can just take a little nibble or two in order to spit it out again and leave all the rest snipped by the wayside. It just evades the issue, and among other things somehow leads you to conclude that you're knocking one of my heroes, for heavens sakes. Do you think King Asoka's my hero too? We're not talking about hero-worship. Why don't you try giving a proper response? I'm not going to stitch it all back again, do it yourself. Who said anything about saints? Only you. Who's trying to avoid politics other than you? And who are you trying to tell about media coverage? If you'd been paying a little more attention you might have learnt a little about just what media coverage means and doesn't mean and the role it plays and doesn't play in issues such as these. Not necessarily what you just naturally assume. You have to skip over (snip snip) large chunks (not just niblets) of recent and current history for your view of it to make any sense. It's just prejudice anyway (pre-judgment). Force reality into it if you wish, but you're not persuading anyone but yourself that it fits. Peaceful protest doesn't work, what a load of old bullshit, same with peace with justice doesn't exist. You're talking nonsense. Gandhi I've only got a passing familiarity with, even though he seems to be referred to as the father of non-violent protest. Maybe he was perfect and maybe his followers were never incited to riot or to violence. If so, then in this case I'm wrong. I hope I'm wrong. I'd like to be wrong. I wish my cynical world view was wrong and that if you really are pure of heart then the truth will win out in the end and peace will fall on the land but I guess I just haven't seen it in my life time. There's a difference between cynicism and that last little burst of sarcasm, and cynicism isn't usually so ill-informed either. Maybe you didn't see it because you didn't look or looked the other way? Go and study Gandhi then, you're not qualified to discuss this issue if you know nothing about Gandhi, let alone declaim on it. You share a country with a lot of Indians among others and you don't know from Gandhi? Or from the history of the last 40 years it seems, other than via a keyhole. If you found just one instance of riot or violence being associated with Gandhian protest you'd look no further, that'd be your proof, case rests. Poof, you snap your fingers, and the role of peaceful protest and passive resistance in creating change vanishes, and so today, at this of all crucial junctures in human affairs, you'd leave us with no other tools than a hammer to face a juggernaut. I think you don't really know anything about this. Probably that's what other people said about King at the time and you've thought so ever since. Also please don't just brush things aside. Eg: Peace with justice, D. Mindock Did that ever really exist? You were given some examples, snipping it isn't exactly an acceptable response. Keith Addison Journey to Forever KYOTO Pref., Japan http://journeytoforever.org/ Biofuel list owner Okay,
Re: [Biofuel] galvanized tanks
Andrew, I do know that the zinc (Galvanizing) will rapidly dissolve in mild caustic or acid. It may be safe enough for clarifier use if the entire solution is between a pH of about 6 to 9, but I would use extreme caution as any unreacted acid or base will dissolve the zinc and contaminate the batch. Perhaps someone else can advise you on the pH's of the phases at the clarification stage, or if they have tried this before. Best, Mike McGinness Andrew Leven wrote: Hi ,I just finished bubblewashing a 30L batch of bio but it is still cloudy.I have a galvanized tank from an old jet pump setup that is ported ideally for plumbing and adding a heating element. I want to use it for a clarifying tank but am unsure whether the galvy will react with my bio. Anybody have any info on this?Andrew Leven ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
[Biofuel] FWD: Nazis coming to Danbury [was] BYU professor's group...
Since "peaceful demonstrations" have been a lively topic lately, here's what's happening in my neck of the woods.I'll let you know how it turns out.MikeNaveen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: To: Chris T [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED],[EMAIL PROTECTED], Al-Awda-CT [EMAIL PROTECTED],[EMAIL PROTECTED]From: Naveen [EMAIL PROTECTED]Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2006 07:33:42 -0700 (PDT)Subject: [isoinfo] Re: [CTpeace-activists] Nazis coming to Danbury Tuesday When and where is the counter demonstration?We can't dismiss these people or ignore them and wish they go away. They are organizing to recruit people for genocide. Unite and Fight the Nazis! NaveenChris T [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:I believe we should act - come out in force this Tuesday. These people are not welcome here. -Chris (203) 417-3590 ---Neo-Nazis say they're coming to Danbury By Elizabeth Putnam THE NEWS-TIMES The News-Times/Wendy Carlson Local clergy members Richard Kendall, left, Frank Caporale, Bob Cutting and Greg Russo will rally on the Danbury Green Tuesday against separation of church and state.A rally calling for an end to the separation of church and state is expected to draw hundreds to downtown Danbury on Tuesday, including members of a neo-Nazi group who plan to wear swastikas on their black jackets. Minutemen United, an Ohio-based Christian organization, is holding the rally Tuesday afternoon, because "the wall between the separation of church and state must be torn down," the group's leader and founder Dave Daubenmire said Wednesday. Minutemen United expects up to 300 people at the event on the Danbury Green, but that number could increase as word of the rally spreads. Members of other organizations that advocate unity between religion and government say they plan to attend. The Grey Wolves, a Northeast-based white supremacist group loosely affiliated with the Christian Identity Movement, will bring three busloads of people to the rally, Rick Renage, Grey Wolves spokesman, said Wednesday. Renage read about the rally at NewsTimesLive.com, The News-Times' Web site, which posted information Wednesday afternoon about the event. "We just want to show our solidarity with the churches who are sponsoring this activity," Renage said. The Southern Poverty Law Center, a civil rights organization known for its battles with white supremacists and its tracking of extremist groups across the country, could not confirm whether the Grey Wolves is a hate group. Still, Frank Caporale, a non-denominational Christian from Danbury who is helping to organize the rally, told Renage not to attend. "This is not a demonstration. This is a solemn assembly," Caporale said. "This is religious, not political. I want people from all walks of life to feel comfortable attending." Renage said his group will not cause any trouble. "I, personally, am not looking for any confrontations, but if we are provoked, we will react very strongly," he said in an e-mail to The News-Times. Danbury Police Detective Lt. Tom Michael said he would have more information today about how the police department will handle the rally. The Rev. Bob Cutting, pastor of Mountain Church of God in Brookfield and member of Minutemen United, said he was not aware of the Grey Wolves' participation, but he said all are welcome as long as they do not bring signs. "It's open to the public. We just don't want any disruption," Cutting said. "This is about the separation of church and state." Dozens of church-state issues test the bounds of the First Amendment every year. There is raging debate over whether government vouchers should be used to pay for parochial school tuition and whether students can pray or study Biblical theories of man's creation in public schools. President Bush has sparked controversy over whether the government should provide funding for faith-based social service organizations. Some Christian public officials have butted heads with the courts over the posting of the Ten Commandments in government buildings. Daubenmire said he wanted to spotlight these issues and decided to hold a rally in Danbury because of the city's historical significance. After the Revolutionary War, local government still had Congregationalist preachers on the payroll. In protest, the Danbury Baptist Association wrote a letter in 1801 to then-President Thomas Jefferson asking him to help, said Bob Young, a researcher at the Danbury Historical Society who helped Daubenmire study the city's history. In response, Jefferson wrote a letter that included the phrase "wall of separation between church and state." "Jefferson's intent was never to keep God out of government," said Daubenmire, who picked Tuesday for the rally because it's the 231st anniversary of Paul Revere's famous midnight ride. Jefferson's intentions and what the Founding Fathers saw for the new nation is the subject of much debate and the topic of many books. Western
Re: [Biofuel] The VW Rabbit is back.
It's been here all along. They just changed the US name to the Golf (just like it was from the beginning in europe) for a while. Although I can see why the name turns people off -- I actually own one that was sold as a golf, but I always call it a rabbit because I don't like golf... On 4/13/06, Appal Energy [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: http://news.com.com/Photos+NY+Auto+Show+pulls+a+Rabbit+from+its+hat/2300-11389_3-6060841.html ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] FWD: Nazis coming to Danbury [was] BYU professor's group...
Hallo Mike, Well, Toledo, Ohio is close enough to me to call it my neck of the woods. Oddly enough so are Detroit, Ann Arbor and Lansing, Michigan. The Nazis came to Toledo and applied for their permit and held their rally and the people who didn't like the Nazis attacked them and gave them a boatload of publicity and gave the Nazis the chance to say, You see what those people are like? Just like we told you. Perhaps not oddly enough I have seen right-to-lifers attack those backing abortion who turned around and said about the same thing the Nazis did and have seen peace demonstrators attack their opponents who repeated virtually the same line. The smart thing to do would be to give the Nazis their permit and allow them their little march and stay away from them and ignore them, but you have the idiot press covering them and reporting every burp or fart and stirring up people so they can get some news, maybe even make it into the national media. I would guess that you will have the same crap there as we did here in Toledo. Ten, fifteen people marching for or against something and the press coming in and stirring up a mess because they have nothing better to do. After all, nothing much going on anywhere. :o/ Happy Happy, Gustl Friday, 14 April, 2006, 16:55:02, you wrote: MR Since peaceful demonstrations have been a lively topic lately, MR here's what's happening in my neck of the woods. MR I'll let you know how it turns out. MR Mike ...large snip of article... -- Je mehr wir haben, desto mehr fordert Gott von uns. We can't change the winds but we can adjust our sails. The safest road to Hell is the gradual one - the gentle slope, soft underfoot, without sudden turnings, without milestones, without signposts. C. S. Lewis, The Screwtape Letters Es gibt Wahrheiten, die so sehr auf der Straße liegen, daß sie gerade deshalb von der gewöhnlichen Welt nicht gesehen oder wenigstens nicht erkannt werden. Those who dance are considered insane by those who can't hear the music. George Carlin The best portion of a good man's life - His little, nameless, unremembered acts of kindness and of love. William Wordsworth ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
[Biofuel] copper plumbing
Another reactivity question; how about sweated [lead free solder}copper piping and brass valves for plumbing on a processor ? Thanks for all the info Andrew Leven ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] [Fwd: [just_biodiesel] California residents:
Senator Ducheny, the chairperson of the of the Senate Trans Committee, is an intelligent and caring person. I have worked with her on previous occasions trying to make meaningfull changes to the smog check program. My call to her is as yet unanswered, but I am sure she has home brewers interests in her mind. It likely is a big money entity that got the bill going, however, because that is how it works in California. It is funny? that although the bill is an "emergency bill", the deadline has already been moved back a year to Jan '07. Greg Kelly___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] BYU professor's group accusesU.S.officialsoflyingabout 9/11
Speaking of peaceful protests we have just had nearly 2 weeks of massive peaceful protests here in the USA by people protesting the proposed new immigration laws in the US Congress that would have instantly made felons out of over 10 million (based on current estimates) illegal US immigrants currently residing in the USA. These PEACFUL protests have already had a huge impact on Congress. Some of the protesters were High School Student Valedictorians (they have the highest grades in their class) who are not yet here legally, but who are setting one hell of a good example for others. The US Senate shelved the proposed law for now, as a result of the public outcry and protests! They recognized the huge mistake they were about to make thanks to the protests. Peaceful protests do happen and they do succeed! Mike McGinness Keith Addison wrote: I have to agree that social change does not happen with peaceful protests. Social change does not ONLY happen with peaceful protest. And peaceful protest does most certainly happen. The people benefiting from the imbalance that causes peaceful protests won't let go so easily (especially when they pay someone to fight their battles). The fight ends up being between the only two forms of power that mean anything in our society - money and people. When individuals believe they should have more than most, they accumulate wealth and with it, power. Those who are effected by that power and are not wealthy, organize and gather consensus among their fellow citizens. (IMO) the violence starts when the two powers have had time (years) to build. Peaceful protests are a tell-tale, signaling the possibility of violence. They signal the failure of the system to deliver on its promises, so alternative means must be found of bringing public opinion to bear on public events, and peaceful protest is one of them. The conflict won't end until antagonists (ruling class) have become exhausted from the fight and it's clear that there isn't much (money) left to gain by continuing. That's how it's been in the past, but despite all the apparently lost battles what history shows nonetheless is a steady pushing forward of the frontiers of human rights. That all the battles of the past have been lost (they weren't) wouldn't necessarily mean that the next one will be the same, especially not when there are some really new factors in the mix, which there are. The whole long 10,000-year war could be won or lost now, not just a battle. The reason for such an imbalance can't be placed squarely on the shoulders of the narcissists who gather wealth for the purpose of projecting power. If citizens played a bigger role in the everyday business of government, the imbalance would be seen earlier and kept from becoming the threat that it is today. Why do they consent to leaving it all to the government and the authorities in the first place? That's just what Edward Bernays said he invented public relations to achieve after all. Best Keith ...my $.02 Mike Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Okay, let's take this in chunks. Not okay: Why not answer the rest of the question Gary? It went like this: snippetysnippetysnip... Snipping's supposed to remove previous irrelevant matter to save space. But you're a compulsive snipper, and not to save space. Then the chunks you're left with aren't quite the same thing, eh? You can just take a little nibble or two in order to spit it out again and leave all the rest snipped by the wayside. It just evades the issue, and among other things somehow leads you to conclude that you're knocking one of my heroes, for heavens sakes. Do you think King Asoka's my hero too? We're not talking about hero-worship. Why don't you try giving a proper response? I'm not going to stitch it all back again, do it yourself. Who said anything about saints? Only you. Who's trying to avoid politics other than you? And who are you trying to tell about media coverage? If you'd been paying a little more attention you might have learnt a little about just what media coverage means and doesn't mean and the role it plays and doesn't play in issues such as these. Not necessarily what you just naturally assume. You have to skip over (snip snip) large chunks (not just niblets) of recent and current history for your view of it to make any sense. It's just prejudice anyway (pre-judgment). Force reality into it if you wish, but you're not persuading anyone but yourself that it fits. Peaceful protest doesn't work, what a load of old bullshit, same with peace with justice doesn't exist. You're talking nonsense. Gandhi I've only got a passing familiarity with, even though he seems to be referred to as the father of non-violent protest. Maybe he was perfect and maybe his followers were never incited to riot or to violence. If so, then in this case I'm wrong. I hope I'm wrong. I'd like to be
Re: [Biofuel] Xenophobic email for 'Merikans - tax question
Mike, I would ask the state comptroller first for the state you live in. Here are 2 links for the state of Texas (where I live and know how to easily find the answer): http://www.window.state.tx.us/taxinfo/fuels/biodiesel.pdf http://www.window.state.tx.us/ It seems from the first link above that the state of Texas has exempted biodiesel, B-100, or that portion which is biodiesel from taxation. Best, Mike McGinness Mike Weaver wrote: I have been keeping track of the BD I am burning in my car - it's not much - does anyone know how to pay the sales tax due? -Mike ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] FWD: Nazis coming to Danbury [was] BYU professor'sgroup...
There is an expression I love .. If you want more drugs on the street, by all means, declare war on drugs .. energy matches energy .. and in this case I would plan to not show up and I would do everything in my power to let everyone know to not show up. .. perhaps an idea would be to have a rally on the other side of town honoring the intense good sense our fore fathers showed in establishing the seperation of church and state as a foundation of our nation. Have some blue grass music, good bar-b-que .. go easy on the beer .. and see who comes to who .. Please don't feed into their energy .. that will just get them more coverage and that's the last thing you want. .. an additional idea .. get some friendly newspaper people to cover this counter rally .. and make it peaceful and fun. Mary Lynn Mary Lynn Schmidt ONE SPIRIT ONE HEART TTouch . Animal Behavior Modification . Behavior Problems . Ordained Minister . Pet Loss Grief Counseling . Radionics . Dowsing . Nutrition . Homeopathy . Herbs. . Polarity . Reiki . Spiritual Travel The Animal Connection Healing Modalities http://members.tripod.com/~MLSchmidt/ From: Michael Redler [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: [Biofuel] FWD: Nazis coming to Danbury [was] BYU professor'sgroup... Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2006 13:55:02 -0700 (PDT) Since peaceful demonstrations have been a lively topic lately, here's what's happening in my neck of the woods. I'll let you know how it turns out. Mike Naveen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: To: Chris T [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED], Al-Awda-CT [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED] From: Naveen [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2006 07:33:42 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [isoinfo] Re: [CTpeace-activists] Nazis coming to Danbury Tuesday When and where is the counter demonstration? We can't dismiss these people or ignore them and wish they go away. They are organizing to recruit people for genocide. Unite and Fight the Nazis! Naveen Chris T [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I believe we should act - come out in force this Tuesday. These people are not welcome here. -Chris (203) 417-3590 --- Neo-Nazis say they're coming to Danbury By Elizabeth Putnam THE NEWS-TIMES The News-Times/Wendy Carlson Local clergy members Richard Kendall, left, Frank Caporale, Bob Cutting and Greg Russo will rally on the Danbury Green Tuesday against separation of church and state. A rally calling for an end to the separation of church and state is expected to draw hundreds to downtown Danbury on Tuesday, including members of a neo-Nazi group who plan to wear swastikas on their black jackets. Minutemen United, an Ohio-based Christian organization, is holding the rally Tuesday afternoon, because the wall between the separation of church and state must be torn down, the group's leader and founder Dave Daubenmire said Wednesday. Minutemen United expects up to 300 people at the event on the Danbury Green, but that number could increase as word of the rally spreads. Members of other organizations that advocate unity between religion and government say they plan to attend. The Grey Wolves, a Northeast-based white supremacist group loosely affiliated with the Christian Identity Movement, will bring three busloads of people to the rally, Rick Renage, Grey Wolves spokesman, said Wednesday. Renage read about the rally at NewsTimesLive.com, The News-Times' Web site, which posted information Wednesday afternoon about the event. We just want to show our solidarity with the churches who are sponsoring this activity, Renage said. The Southern Poverty Law Center, a civil rights organization known for its battles with white supremacists and its tracking of extremist groups across the country, could not confirm whether the Grey Wolves is a hate group. Still, Frank Caporale, a non-denominational Christian from Danbury who is helping to organize the rally, told Renage not to attend. This is not a demonstration. This is a solemn assembly, Caporale said. This is religious, not political. I want people from all walks of life to feel comfortable attending. Renage said his group will not cause any trouble. I, personally, am not looking for any confrontations, but if we are provoked, we will react very strongly, he said in an e-mail to The News-Times. Danbury Police Detective Lt. Tom Michael said he would have more information today about how the police department will handle the rally. The Rev. Bob Cutting, pastor of Mountain Church of God in Brookfield and member of Minutemen United, said he was not aware of the Grey Wolves' participation, but he said all are welcome as long as they do not bring signs. It's open to the public. We just don't want any disruption, Cutting said. This is about the separation of church and state. Dozens of church-state issues test the bounds of the First
[Biofuel] Gas and Ethanol shortage, more price hikes this summer
Just read that all the US refiners are going to stop using MTBE as a gas additive in 4 weeks, reportedly because the US Congress will not pass a bill stopping, or mitigating MTBE ground water contamination law suits. The only replacement for MTBE is ethanol and there is not and will not be enough ethanol online for 10 more months to replace MTBE, according to the article. Result, huge gas shortages this summer in the USA with huge price hikes to be the result. Get ready for $?.00 / gallon gas. Source Waste News Magazine, April 10th, 2006, pg. 8. Mike McGinness ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] sustainable biodiesel from Casto : Big is notbeautiful, small is more sustainable
Greetings Doug, You said, They are not related. This may be true sometimes (1), but I think there is some kind of relationship between the two, but it may not be easy, or simple to explain. I found an excellent online reference on lubrication, friction and viscosity here: http://www.usace.army.mil/inet/usace-docs/eng-manuals/em1110-2-1424/c-2.pdf I found this on page 6 of the reference: Lubricants: Reduced wear and heat are achieved by inserting a lower viscosity (shear strength) material between wearing surfaces that have a relatively high coefficient of friction. The army took ten pages to cover the topic of lubrication, so it is a somewhat complex topic. This site also had some interesting data on biodiesel as a lubricity enhancer / additive: http://www.me.iastate.edu/biodiesel/Pages/bio23.html I was taught in my fluid mechanics class that viscosity is the resistance (friction) to flow of fluid under an applied sheer force. I think that too low or too high a viscosity motor oil (all other parameters being equal) increases friction in the engine (less apparent lubricity of the fluid?). There is an optimal viscosity. From what I have read, friction (or the inverse? lubricity, or lack of friction?) is a complex property of the entire system, where the two surface materials on either side of the fluid, the fluid, any particles released from the two sliding surfaces, and the viscosity of the fluid all affect the sliding friction. Said another way, there is a relationship between friction and lubricity. A higher lubricity lubricant reduces the friction in a system. Viscosity is a measure of the resistance (a kind of friction. The army document above discusses different, other kinds of friction.) to flow of fluid between two sliding surfaces (an applied sheer force). The problem is the relationship is very complex. Film thickness also gets involved which involves viscosity. Lastly viscosity, and film thickness are affected by temperature which increases with heat (friction). (1) To make matters worse (in answering this question and getting to the heart of engineering definitions), there are dry film lubricant coatings (Teflon and Moly) that I am familiar with, that increase the lubricity of the sliding surface. They are dry films, not fluids and to my knowledge they do not have a viscosity. In this case I guess you would be right, viscosity would not be related to lubricity. Finally I found this on page 8-9. It was an eye open for me, as I had not run across it before. Oiliness. Lubricants required to operate under boundary lubrication conditions must possess an added quality referred to as oiliness or lubricity to lower the coefficient of friction of the oil between the rubbing surfaces. Oiliness is an oil enhancement property provided through the use of chemical additives known as antiwear (AW) agents. AW agents have a polarizing property that enables them to behave in a manner similar to a magnet. Like a magnet, the opposite sides of the oil film have different polarities. When an AW oil adheres to the metal wear surfaces, the sides of the oil film not in contact with the metal surface have identical polarities and tend to repel each other and form a plane of slippage. Most oils intended for use in heavier machine applications contain AW agents. Best, Mike McGinness [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I understand that lubricity has to do with the ability of the oil to maintain a lubricating film under pressure. Viscosity has to do with how readily the oil flows. They are not related. An early detailed study of the properties of lubricants was done by Ricardo Engineering for the British Air Ministry in the 1920's. I'm sure there has been a lot done since. Doug Woodard St. Catharines, Ontario On Thu, 13 Apr 2006, Keith Addison wrote: [snip] ...the difference between lubricity and viscosity isn't that clear, or at least not to me, especially when you add high temperatures. Anyone know better? ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
[Biofuel] Hydrogenated oil
I have secured a small bit of hydrogenated Canola Oil. It reminds me of shortening but more liquid. Would this be good stuff to make Bio out of ? JIM ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] copper plumbing
Another reactivity question; how about sweated [lead free solder}copper piping and brass valves for plumbing on a processor ? Thanks for all the info Andrew Leven Copper and SVO: I'm not so worried about the copper but what the copper does to the fuel. Did you ever check what happened to your fuel properties like oxidation stability and acid value? A lot of research has been done in Germany on VO (and biodiesel) fuel properties, and who I consider as the leading experts clearly warn against using copper in connection with VO because of the catalytic effect it has on the VO. The laboratory ASG Analytik-Service (http://www.asg-analytik.de), who were involved in the research leading to the Rape Seed Oil Fuel Standard, says that just a few PPM of copper in VO will change the oxidation stability... [In SVO systems] with a catalytic metal, I think you have the best conditions and environment for decomposition of the VO, and the effects it has on the fuel properties again have an impact on the engine performance, engine conditions (lifetime) and emissions composition. -- Niels Ansø, Folkecenter, Denmark Effects of copper on SVO: Standardisierung von Rapsöl als Kraftstoff - Untersuchungen zu Kenngröben, Prüfverhafen und Grenzwerten, by Edgar Remmele, thesis on vegetable oil as fuel -- see pp 144-146 for the effects of copper on vegetable oil. Acrobat file, 1.4Mb - in German. http://tumb1.biblio.tu-muenchen.de/publ/diss/ww/2002/remmele.pdf -- From: Straight vegetable oil as diesel fuel http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_svo.html ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Hydrogenated oil
I have secured a small bit of hydrogenated Canola Oil. It reminds me of shortening but more liquid. Would this be good stuff to make Bio out of ? JIM Hydrogenated oil, shortening, margarine http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_yield.html#short ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] FWD: Nazis coming to Danbury [was] BYUprofessor'sgroup...
Marilynn, You are totally correct. That which we fear and dwell upon will come to pass. Hate groups know this and use it as a lever to increase their numbers. The idea of a peaceful rally/party on the other side of town is right on. It won't get much coverage but the good vibes created do radiate and counteract those from the other dark rally. And the peace inspired in the participants will stick and grow. An idea that needs to be promoted here in the USA is that peace is patriotic. Making war, the Patriot Act, tapping our phones, are harmful to our democracy, that which remains. And all of these are decidely un-patriotic. I guess the neo-nazis love those neo-cons. The difference, if any, is hard for me to see. Neo-cons might say that they're Christians and neo-nazis aren't. That's not true, since real followers of Christ would never do what they've (the neo-cons) done to the world the USA. Namaste, D. Mindock There is an expression I love .. If you want more drugs on the street, by all means, declare war on drugs .. energy matches energy .. and in this case I would plan to not show up and I would do everything in my power to let everyone know to not show up. .. perhaps an idea would be to have a rally on the other side of town honoring the intense good sense our fore fathers showed in establishing the seperation of church and state as a foundation of our nation. Have some blue grass music, good bar-b-que .. go easy on the beer .. and see who comes to who .. Please don't feed into their energy .. that will just get them more coverage and that's the last thing you want. .. an additional idea .. get some friendly newspaper people to cover this counter rally .. and make it peaceful and fun. Mary Lynn Mary Lynn Schmidt ONE SPIRIT ONE HEART TTouch . Animal Behavior Modification . Behavior Problems . Ordained Minister . Pet Loss Grief Counseling . Radionics . Dowsing . Nutrition . Homeopathy . Herbs. . Polarity . Reiki . Spiritual Travel The Animal Connection Healing Modalities http://members.tripod.com/~MLSchmidt/ From: Michael Redler [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: [Biofuel] FWD: Nazis coming to Danbury [was] BYU professor'sgroup... Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2006 13:55:02 -0700 (PDT) Since peaceful demonstrations have been a lively topic lately, here's what's happening in my neck of the woods. I'll let you know how it turns out. Mike Naveen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: To: Chris T [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED], Al-Awda-CT [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED] From: Naveen [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2006 07:33:42 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [isoinfo] Re: [CTpeace-activists] Nazis coming to Danbury Tuesday When and where is the counter demonstration? We can't dismiss these people or ignore them and wish they go away. They are organizing to recruit people for genocide. Unite and Fight the Nazis! Naveen Chris T [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I believe we should act - come out in force this Tuesday. These people are not welcome here. -Chris (203) 417-3590 --- Neo-Nazis say they're coming to Danbury By Elizabeth Putnam THE NEWS-TIMES The News-Times/Wendy Carlson Local clergy members Richard Kendall, left, Frank Caporale, Bob Cutting and Greg Russo will rally on the Danbury Green Tuesday against separation of church and state. A rally calling for an end to the separation of church and state is expected to draw hundreds to downtown Danbury on Tuesday, including members of a neo-Nazi group who plan to wear swastikas on their black jackets. Minutemen United, an Ohio-based Christian organization, is holding the rally Tuesday afternoon, because the wall between the separation of church and state must be torn down, the group's leader and founder Dave Daubenmire said Wednesday. Minutemen United expects up to 300 people at the event on the Danbury Green, but that number could increase as word of the rally spreads. Members of other organizations that advocate unity between religion and government say they plan to attend. The Grey Wolves, a Northeast-based white supremacist group loosely affiliated with the Christian Identity Movement, will bring three busloads of people to the rally, Rick Renage, Grey Wolves spokesman, said Wednesday. Renage read about the rally at NewsTimesLive.com, The News-Times' Web site, which posted information Wednesday afternoon about the event. We just want to show our solidarity with the churches who are sponsoring this activity, Renage said. The Southern Poverty Law Center, a civil rights organization known for its battles with white supremacists and its tracking of extremist groups across the country, could not confirm whether the Grey Wolves is a hate group. Still, Frank Caporale, a non-denominational Christian from Danbury who is helping to organize the rally, told Renage not to
