Re: [Biofuel] Flying F Bio-Fuels

[DHAJOGLO]

Righto.  This is what I thought.  Here will be an interesting case.  About 3 
years ago I approached the Maintenance department about making a reactor and 
they throughly laughed at me.  Now, given the diesel prices, they are looking 
at these options.  It will be interesting to see if I can persuade them to 
actually learn what is behind this mysterious biodiesel process.  Further to 
that, it will be a miracle if I can convince them that this reactor is not only 
over priced, but merely a high priced water heater with a pump and a few hoses.

I'll keep you informed.



On Tuesday, May 01, 2007  2:37 AM, Keith Addison wrote:
6800 for a 40 gallon batch is well . . .
As high as a giraffes tail?

Date: Tue, 1 May 2007 16:37:11 +0900
From: Keith Addison
To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Flying F Bio-Fuels

:-)

Same as this, said about the FuelMeister two or three years back:
You could make an excellent processor plus more than 8,000 gallons
of high-quality biodiesel for that price.

Anyone can make a good processor, except, it seems, people who sell
them. AFAIK there still isn't a commercially available small-scale
processor that's worth having.

www.ffbiofuels.com says this: You'll be making fuel the day it arrives!

Pagandai recently said this:

Understanding of the process is vital to operate the plant. - Prof.
P.V. Pannir Selvam, Technology Center, Department of Chemical
Engineering, Universidade Federal do Rio Grande do Norte (UFRN),
Brazil, Biofuel mailing list, 15 Apr 2007

I completely agree with Pagandai, seen it so often!

Dave, nice small-scale processor designs here that the head of
maintenance might consider:
http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_processor.html

Joe Street's processor
http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_processor.html#joestreet

Best

Keith


Kirk

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

Has anyone heard about this company? They make a reactor and are
selling it. I was approached by the head of maintenance. He said
they are considering purchasing a unit. I'm inclined to think its
way over priced.

www.ffbiofuels.com


-dave


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[Biofuel] Flying F Bio-Fuels

[DHAJOGLO]

Has anyone heard about this company?  They make a reactor and are selling it.  
I was approached by the head of maintenance.  He said they are considering 
purchasing a unit.  I'm inclined to think its way over priced.

www.ffbiofuels.com


-dave



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Re: [Biofuel] Fw: patent for transesterification of oil to Biodiesel

[DHAJOGLO]

There is one precedent set that I know of regarding a patent of what I would 
call an intuitive process.  A while back a company called PanIP held a patent 
for what is basically e-commerce.  It read something like, Any site with 
images that takes credit card numbers...   They started extorting small 
companies with massive lawsuit threats.  I'm not sure in what order things 
occurred, but basically they were finally counter sued and the company had to 
pay back all the legal fees it had incurred in its little rampage.

This gives us a little hope that anyone that is granted a patent for a well 
known and documented process wouldn't be able to enforce infringement.



On Friday, April 27, 2007  6:08 PM, doug wrote:

Date: Sat, 28 Apr 2007 09:08:00 +1000
From: doug
To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Fw: patent for transesterification of oil to Biodiesel

Yes, but I think the problem is that the Patent office does not check the
validity of patents. The test comes when the patent goes to court (so feeding
the Legal fraternity...)

regards Doug

On Saturday 28 April 2007 08:18:05 am Fritz Friesinger wrote:
 Hi Keith,
 to my knowledge,anything belong to the public domaine kan not be patented.A
 simple dokumentet description of the process should be enough to dismiss
 any patentclaim!

 Fritz

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Re: [Biofuel] Fw: patent for transesterification of oil to Biodiesel

[DHAJOGLO]

Keith,
   I think stories of this underscore the broken nature of the patent process.  
The technology is fraught full of this.  Amazon.com patented  the one click 
checkout.  Now, if you distill your e-business site down to one click you are 
infringing on their patent.  Thus, you don't have to invent anything, just be 
the first at the patent office with a process no matter how fundamental or 
natural it may be.

It will be interesting with transesterfication since it's a well documented 
chemical process.  I would venture it would not hold up in court and thus, if 
someone tried to sue, the biodiesel community would get together and attempt to 
fight it since a ruling would effectively impact all producers.

 



On Friday, April 27, 2007  1:21 PM, Keith Addison wrote:
I'd appreciate some opinions on this, if anyone would like to comment.

Just to stir it up a bit, a somewhat ridiculous small company in
Japan called Someya Shoten which feels it leads the world in matters
biodiesel took out a patent on transesterification some years ago.

So is Ben Gurion University infringing on Someya Shoten's patent?

Or is the whole thing preposterous, since transesterification was
invented/discovered about 150 years ago and is thoroughly in the
public domain no matter who decides to patent it, and no matter which
dumb patent office that doesn't check anything decides to grant the
patent?

Would the best advice to the Sahel group be to ignore it and just get
on with it?

Has anybody patented the human nose yet, or failing that, the air
noses breathe?

All best

Keith


I had this email from a group working with biodiesel in the Sahel. If
it's true, it seems ridiculous to me.

See:
http://www.wipo.int/pctdb/en/ia.jsp?IA=IL2006000622REF=RSS
(WO/2006/126206) PRODUCTION OF BIODIESEL FROM BALANITES AEGYPTIACA

Best

Keith


 Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2007 11:20:52 +0200
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Subject: Fw: patent for transesterification of oil to Biodiesel
 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 
 - Original Message -
 From: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED][EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED][EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Cc: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED][EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Sent: Monday, April 23, 2007 11:16 AM
 Subject: patent for transesterification of oil to Biodiesel
 
 Dear Sirs,
 
 We are supporting NGO 's and cooperatives in Afrika,
 there is a big need to produce oil from all possible plants, nuts ,
 seeds of any other vegetable origine , for human consumption or for
 producing energie.
 One of the NGO ' s in the Sahel-region helps the local population to
 organise the collecting of the fruits and nuts
 to improve their oil production from the nuts of the Balanites tree.
 The Balanites tree is very popular by the population , the fruits
 are sweet amere but the  juice is used as a drink and sold to the
 town , the nuts are very hard and inside, the kernel  contains 40 to
 48% of oil.
 Sometimes the used as lamp-oil.
 The whole tree is very interesting for public health , on
 internet is a lot of information about that.
 The NGO will make the use as lamp-oil better by transesterification
 to obtain biodiesel that the should burn in
 small diesel cookingoven ,so that they don't have to use the wood ,
 which is one of the biggest problem in this region.
 Further the don't have electricity ,  the have diesel generator ,
 but the irrigularity in delivery and the high prices of gasoil makes
 it to difficult in using them  all the time.
 
 
 The problem :
 
 There is a pattent on the invention to make biodiesel from
 BALANITES OIL .(WO/2006/126206) dated november 2006 by the BEN
 GORION UNIVERSITY
 
 
 Please can you inform us, Is it  possible to take a patent on the
 transesterification process of oil to produce Biodiesel?
 
 Is this ALL Patent possible?
 
 Is this NEW  and what is new on this invention?
 
 Is this not in contradiction with statements of many Organisations -
 World Wide - for the devellopment of POOR COUNTRIES ,
 
 Thanks for your attention
 
 we remain with kind regards
 
 marc van de velde
 Leningstraat 19
 2140 ANTWERP
 Belgium
 
 
 production and office in POLAND
 mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED][EMAIL PROTECTED]
 


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Re: [Biofuel] How do you catch a crow?

[DHAJOGLO]

Keith,
   I caught this thread late and have not read all the replies.. however, my 
dad used to trap predatory birds as part of a program to protect engendered 
species.  His basic trap was a tall pole with a regular steel jaw trap on top.  
This pole is placed in a large open space and birds that are flying by are 
inclined to perch in it.

A while back, I was studying up on a local native tribe in my area and came 
across this: http://www.geocities.com/aliciainelpaso/snaresntraps.htm

Scroll down to the Ojibwa bird pole.  Its rather clever.  And, if you have any 
stray rabbits you'd like to eat.. there are some other snares you can build.  
lol

-dave

  
On Tuesday, March 20, 2007  9:40 AM, Keith Addison wrote:

Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2007 23:40:17 +0900
From: Keith Addison
To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] How do you catch a crow?

Hi Jason

i was digging around and found a bird trap that might help you. it looks
like a big mousetrap with a net around the bar.
it is big enough to hold the bird inside the net, but i would guess that if
yon birdie tried to get away, it would be killed by the impact rather than
caught by the net. here is the website, but it would probably be easier to
make one (and cheaper too...) http://www.critterridders.com/pigeon_trap.htm
its almost to the bottom of the page called EZ catch. seems like a good
design idea anyway.

That's great! Thanks very much! The missing bit. It's the same
technique as a cage trap but using a net instead of a cage. I said I
thought it needs nets, only I don't know how to use nets, but I'm
pretty good at cage traps. So far. Right, I'll make one of those, or
something like it.

Thanks again Jason.

All best

Keith



- Original Message -
From: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org
Sent: Monday, March 19, 2007 7:32 AM
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] How do you catch a crow?


  Hi Gary, thanks for this
 
 They are very crafty and can count people in their area to a point.
 
  Crows are smart! Have a look at what this crow is doing - check the video:
  http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/2178920.stm
  BBC NEWS | Science/Nature | Crows prove they are no birdbrains
 
  Homo habilis indeed, LOL!
 
 If you have time, you can walk to the coop with a few people and leave one
 person behind to wait for the crows to return. A call that sounds like a
 crow can call it in.
 
 If legal try a #1-1/2 leg hold trap with a morsel of food TIED to the pan.
 This can catch other animals also so the location and attention when set
 is
 very important. The roof top can be a good place to start.
 There will be no need to disguise the trap for at least the first attempt
 but, be sure to fasten the chain to something just incase the tries to
 fly.
 
  It's legal, but I'm reluctant to do it. I'd rather kill it outright
  (ie shoot it, not an option) or catch it without hurting it and then
  kill it. Probably I need to do something clever with a net, but I
  haven't managed to figure it out yet. If it comes down to it though
  the chicks come first and so the crow dies, whatever works. So thanks
  very much for this, I reckon I could get a leg hold trap to work.
 
 Also according to reports they can carry lots of germs and disease, so
 handle with a glove and dispose of with care.
 
  It's because they're carrion eaters I guess. Straight into the
  compost bin, not much left after cooking at 70+ deg C for a week or
  two.
 
  Thanks again, all best
 
  Keith
 
 
 
 -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Keith Addison
 Sent: Sunday, March 18, 2007 7:23 AM
 To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org
 Subject: [Biofuel] How do you catch a crow?
 
 Hi all
 
 A pesky crow moved in a couple of weeks ago. I guess they're all
 pesky, I haven't met any other kind. It reckons this is its territory
 now, there are good pickings here, it's taken to scavenging poultry
 feed for instance, sneak-thief, darts in as soon as your back's
 turned.
 
 Trouble is there'll be flocks of hatchlings around soon, with their
 mums to look after them indeed, but chicks run around, the crow will
 get some of them.
 
 We killed a crow a year or two ago. We'd been having problems with
 them, thieving and so on, and they killed five chicks. Then a couple
 of crows got into the chicken hutch and Midori killed one, the other
 escaped. We hung the dead one up outside the chicken hutch and the
 crows kept away after that. Up to now.
 
 How do you catch a crow when it's not trapped in a chicken hutch? Any
 ideas? I set a trap for a raiding raccoon a couple of months back and
 caught it but I won't catch a crow that way.
 
 TIA
 
 Best
 
 Keith


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Re: [Biofuel] photovoltaic energy payback period

[DHAJOGLO]

Do you have the other half of the article?  I would like to read the one about 
the Myths of Water rights also!

-dave
Date: Thu, 8 Feb 2007 19:56:51 -0800 (PST)
From: Kirk McLoren
To: biofuel 
Subject: [Biofuel] photovoltaic energy payback period

  
http://www.rpc.com.au/products/services/Environmental_Engineer_Summer_06_paper_2.pdf
  
excellent discussion of energy payback period for photovoltaics. Saw this url 
posted on 12volt power.
  
On Thursday, February 08, 2007  9:56 PM, Kirk McLoren wrote:

Date: Thu, 8 Feb 2007 19:56:51 -0800 (PST)
From: Kirk McLoren
To: biofuel Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
Subject: [Biofuel] photovoltaic energy payback period

http://www.rpc.com.au/products/services/Environmental_Engineer_Summer_06_paper_2.pdf

  excellent discussion of energy payback period for photovoltaics. Saw this 
 url posted on 12volt power.

  Kirk


-
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Re: [Biofuel] Bayer defends genetic contamination as Act of God

[DHAJOGLO]

Of course, if this were Monsanto, they would be suing anyone growing that 
strain of leaked rice as a violation of their patents!
 

 
Maybe Bayer should just stick  with what it knows best, its aspirin.  Peace, D. 
 Mindock
= 
  
Bayer defends genetic  contamination as Act of God 
 06 February  2007
HYPERLINK
http://www.greenpeace.org/international/news/act-of-god-060207You 
  
Yes folks it seems that  according to Bayer, God hasn't been
dealing with the big issues lately.  Instead of answering
millions of prayers, stopping wars or ending famines,  God
has left all the important things to gather dust in the
heavenly inbox  whilst ensuring Bayer's unapproved variety of
genetically engineered (GE)  rice goes forth and multiplies
around the world instead. 

According to  documents submitted to the court by Bayer, last
year's massive contamination  of US rice with an unapproved,
experimental variety of rice called LL601 was  due to 'acts
of God' or the rice farmers themselves. 

Pushing the  blame onto the rice farmers is no surprise as
the farmers are the ones suing  Bayer for millions of dollars
of lost income. The price of US rice plummeted  last year,
immediately following the discovery of the GE contamination
in  rice exported to Europe and Japan, where consumer
resistance to Bayer's  less-than-divine intervention in
their food is strong. 

The LL601 rice  was originally grown as an experimental field
trial all the way back in  1999-2001. The trial ended with no
approval for growing the strain  commercially. 

That should have been the end of LL601 for good. But  five
years later, testing of US rice imports across Europe and
Japan  showed the experimental LL601 very much alive and
contaminating.  

Bayer is aggressively pursuing commercial approvals for its
GE rice  globally, including in Europe and Brazil, yet
refuses to accept  responsibility for the major financial
damage its unauthorized GE rice has  caused in the US and
elsewhere. 

Indeed, Bayer is blaming  hardworking farmers or 'acts of
God' for these problems when all signs point  to Bayer being
at fault, said Adam Levitt, a partner in the law firm  of
Wolf Haldenstein Adler Freeman  Herz - one of the law  firms
leading the prosecution of these cases against Bayer. 

Shifting  the blame isn't new for big business trying to
avoid responsibility for their  mistakes. But God as
scapegoat? That's probably a new low in the GE  industry's
pursuit of the almighty dollar.  

 

On Thursday, February 08, 2007  7:28 AM, D. Mindock wrote:

Date: Thu, 8 Feb 2007 07:28:07 -0600
From: D. Mindock
To: Undisclosed-Recipient:;
Subject: [Biofuel] Bayer defends genetic contamination as Act of God

Maybe Bayer should just stick with what it knows best, its aspirin.  Peace, D. 
Mindock
=

Bayer defends genetic contamination as Act of God
 06 February 2007
HYPERLINK
http://www.greenpeace.org/international/news/act-of-god-060207You

Yes folks it seems that according to Bayer, God hasn't been
dealing with the big issues lately. Instead of answering
millions of prayers, stopping wars or ending famines, God
has left all the important things to gather dust in the
heavenly inbox whilst ensuring Bayer's unapproved variety of
genetically engineered (GE) rice goes forth and multiplies
around the world instead. 

According to documents submitted to the court by Bayer, last
year's massive contamination of US rice with an unapproved,
experimental variety of rice called LL601 was due to 'acts
of God' or the rice farmers themselves. 

Pushing the blame onto the rice farmers is no surprise as
the farmers are the ones suing Bayer for millions of dollars
of lost income. The price of US rice plummeted last year,
immediately following the discovery of the GE contamination
in rice exported to Europe and Japan, where consumer
resistance to Bayer's less-than-divine intervention in
their food is strong. 

The LL601 rice was originally grown as an experimental field
trial all the way back in 1999-2001. The trial ended with no
approval for growing the strain commercially. 

That should have been the end of LL601 for good. But five
years later, testing of US rice imports across Europe and
Japan showed the experimental LL601 very much alive and
contaminating. 

Bayer is aggressively pursuing commercial approvals for its
GE rice globally, including in Europe and Brazil, yet
refuses to accept responsibility for the major financial
damage its unauthorized GE rice has caused in the US and
elsewhere. 

Indeed, Bayer is blaming hardworking farmers or 'acts of
God' for these problems when all signs point to Bayer being
at fault, said Adam Levitt, a partner in the law firm of
Wolf Haldenstein Adler Freeman  Herz - one of the law firms
leading the prosecution of these cases against Bayer. 

Shifting the blame isn't new for big business trying to
avoid responsibility for their 

Re: [Biofuel] Chicken Little Strikes Again! CO2 is rising! C02 is

[DHAJOGLO]

Now, can you kindly explain why the surface temperature of Venus is 482 C?
 
Because of Exxon-Mobile?   haha... 

Was John trying to be sarchastic or serious.. I seriously couldn't tell.

-dave

On Monday, February 05, 2007  8:45 AM, robert and benita rabello wrote:

Date: Mon, 05 Feb 2007 06:45:17 -0800
From: robert and benita rabello
To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Chicken Little Strikes Again! CO2 is rising! C02 is

John Wilson wrote:

 Doing an article to rebut this CO2 nonsense. It is so easy to refute.
 Anyone ever tell you people who are for this chicken little theory
 that C02 causes global warming  that heat rises. The co2 theory defies
 the laws of physic. If Co2 is intercepting radiant enery from the sun
 and stopping that energy from reaching the surface of the earth, ice
 fields and oceans and then carrying that energy to the atmosphere,
 then CO2 is not contributing to global warming it is slowing the
 process of global warming ie it is cooling.  Elimating or limiting
  C02 in the atmosphiere will actually increase global warming not the
 reverse.


Whew!  I'm SO relieved!

Now, can you kindly explain why the surface temperature of Venus is
482 C?

robert luis rabello
The Edge of Justice
The Long Journey
New Adventure for Your Mind
http://www.newadventure.ca

Ranger Supercharger Project Page
http://www.members.shaw.ca/rabello/



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[Biofuel] Some archive searching

[DHAJOGLO]

So, I was looking through the archives to determine some information about OPEC 
and pricing oil in the dollar.  I find a lot of references like this, 
realizing the world was embarking on something new and mind boggling, elite 
money managers, with especially strong support from U.S. authorities, struck an 
agreement with OPEC to price oil in U.S. dollars exclusively for all worldwide 
transactions.  http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article11946.htm

or this, In 1971, as it became clearer and clearer that the U.S Government 
would not be able to buy back its dollars in gold, it made in 1972-73 an 
iron-clad arrangement with Saudi Arabia to support the power of the House of 
Saud in exchange for accepting only U.S. dollars for its oil. The rest of OPEC 
was to follow suit and also accept only dollars
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article11613.htm

However, I'm finding it hard to find other sources to help me understand some 
things.

Firstly, does oil priced in dollars mean oil is sold only in dollars?  It seems 
that any country that has oil can accept whatever currency they wish, OPED or 
otherwise.  I'm inclined to this thought because of articles like this, One 
key culprit may be OPEC states who have traditionally denominated their 
transactions in U.S. dollars - but are now moving to the Euro in what the BIS 
says is a subtle but noticeable shift 
http://www.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2004/12/6/28.shtml


Secondly, if the Iranian oil Bourse is created, does that mean countries like 
Saudi Arabia and Venezuela will have to trade only with the Euro?

Finally, can anyone point me to a primary source (not a vague reference in a 
news article) of this agreement that initiated oil trade/prices into us dollars?

Regards,
-dave


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Re: [Biofuel] Some archive searching

[DHAJOGLO]

I'm not concerned about the falling dollar.  I'm interested in the actual 
agreement(s) that govern how oil is purchased from any given nation.  If oil is 
priced in Dollars but can be purchased in any currency then there is no 
difference if its priced in euros.  However, if nations must pay in US 
dollars then the dollar will be more powerful because it must be used.  I'm 
having a hard time finding the exact phrasing or policies in place.  Rather, I 
find only vague references made about agreements with no information backing 
the facts.  I'm not calling into question the validity so much as I'm trying to 
figure out what the reality is (a futile task, I know).

So, Jason Katie, let me rephrase it for you... if, when the economy collapses 
and we are forced to barter with elemental metals and agreements are struck 
that you can trade for goods only with copper, the aluminum would HAVE to be 
exchanged for copper. However, if the goods are only priced in copper then an 
exchange rate can be applied (say, 2 aluminum to 1 copper).  Thus, once your 
copper is depleted you don't have to worry about buying copper just to trade as 
any metal currency will work.  This makes a huge difference in the oil market 
because nations either must have dollars to buy oil or not.

However, in your case I would posit that you would be the one from whom we 
would have to purchase copper and thereby you would have the copper hegemony... 
you bastard ;)

-dave 
   
 On Friday, February 02, 2007 10:07 PM, Jason Katie wrote:

Date: Fri, 2 Feb 2007 22:07:27 -0600
From: Jason Katie
To: 
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Some archive searching

 
i am not entirely worried about how far the dollar  falls here- in fact im 
waiting for it. i can easily go back to the boonies and  get by on Ye Auld 
Garten and a blackpowder rifle. plus the fact that i have  been collecting all 
the scrap copper and aluminum i can get my grimy little paws  on. between the 
materials value and the fact that i will have a halfway decent  supply of clean 
food, i figure i can get by just fine.
- Original Message -
From:Ken Provost
To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org   
Sent: Friday, February 02, 2007 6:09PM   
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Some archivesearching   


   
   
On Feb 2, 2007, at 9:33 AM, DHAJOGLO wrote:   




 
Finally, can anyone point me to a primary source  (not a vague reference 

in a news article) of this  agreement that initiated oil trade/prices into 
usdollars?
   

   
This has been interesting to me lately as well. I'm afraid I can't   
inform you much, but a lot of it started with the Bretton Woods   
agreement (700,000 Google hits). Not specifically about oil,   
but rather international trade in general, and it basically   
forced everything into dollars de facto.   

   
The best thing for the world (tho not US, of course), IMHO, would   
be a precipitous fall of the dollar, so I'm all in favor of anyEuro-   
based exchanges.   

   
-K   
   

   


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On Friday, February 02, 2007 10:07 PM, Jason Katie wrote:

Date: Fri, 2 Feb 2007 22:07:27 -0600
From: Jason Katie
To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Some archive searching

i am not entirely worried about how far the dollar falls here- in fact im 
waiting for it. i can easily go back to the boonies and get by on Ye Auld 
Garten and a blackpowder rifle. plus the fact that i have been collecting all 
the scrap copper and aluminum i can get my grimy little paws on. between the 
materials value and the fact that i will have a halfway decent supply of clean 
food, i figure i can get by just fine.
  - Original Message - 
  From: Ken Provost 
  To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org 
  Sent: Friday, February 02, 2007 6:09 PM
  Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Some archive searching




  On Feb 2, 2007, at 9:33 AM, DHAJOGLO wrote:






Finally, can anyone point me to a primary source (not a vague reference 

in a news article) of this agreement that initiated oil trade/prices into 
 us dollars?




  This has been interesting to me lately as well. I'm afraid I can't
  inform you much, but a lot of it started with the Bretton Woods
  agreement (700,000 Google hits). Not specifically about oil,
  but rather international trade in general, and it basically
  forced everything into dollars de facto.


  The best thing for the world (tho not US

Re: [Biofuel] DISTILLERY DEMAND FOR GRAIN TO FUEL CARS

[DHAJOGLO]

 Its interesting you say that.  The Ethanol plant in WY is located next door to 
a sugar beet processing plant.  They pointed out the cost of sugar beets is to 
high compared to the corn (though I'm not sure if they considered the energy 
inputs to converting the corn to sugar as part of those costs).  They mentioned 
they tried the molases from the sugar factory but stated it was not as 
efficient as the corn.  I tend to think they were'nt really interested in using 
another feed stock, even partially, in their process.  However, the plant 
operator did long to use the direct conversion method of celluose to ethanol 
were it not for the even higher input costs.

Now, the point you make rasies the question, are we more hungry for sugar or 
energy?  I'm not suggesting we actually debate that but it seems we like to 
over indulge in both!

-dave
  
 On Friday, January 19, 2007  9:57 AM, Joe Street wrote:

Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2007 10:57:29 -0500
From: Joe Street
To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] DISTILLERY DEMAND FOR GRAIN TO FUEL CARS

 I think sugar beets are a better bet for use in ethanol production than corn.
 
 Joe
 
 Zeke Yewdall wrote:
 Now, using corn for fueling cars does sound like a lousy idea, but not because 
it might increase corn prices. Considering that corn now sells for only about 
two thirds of what it costs to grow it, I don't see this is such a bad thing.  
Maybe farmers around the world could support themselves again?  And perhaps if 
economics had any effect on farms they'd be tempted to shift to better crops, 
instead of monocropping corn as a subsidized chemical plant input.  The corn 
economy in the US is so messed up and bizzare, I don't know that I can support 
using corn for anything anymore, let alone ethanol.   
   
   
   
   
On 1/18/07, Frantz DESPREZ [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 
 


  

  

January 4, 2007 - 1 

  

Copyright © 2007 Earth Policy Institute  

  

DISTILLERY DEMAND FOR GRAIN TO FUEL CARS VASTLY UNDERSTATED World May Be Facing 
Highest Grain Prices in History 

  

Lester R. Brown  

  

Investment in fuel ethanol distilleries has soared since the late-2005 oil 
price hikes, but data collection in this fast-changing sector has fallen 
behind. Because of inadequate data collection on the number of new plants under 
construction, the quantity of grain that will be needed for fuel ethanol 
distilleries has been vastly understated. Farmers, feeders, food processors, 
ethanol investors, and grain-importing countries are basing decisions on 
incomplete data. 

  

The U.S. Department of Agriculture (USDA) projects that distilleries will 
require only 60 million tons of corn from the 2008 harvest. But here at the 
Earth Policy Institute (EPI), we estimate that distilleries will need 139 
million tons—more than twice as much. If the EPI estimate is at all close to 
the mark, the emerging competition between cars and people for grain will 
likely drive world grain prices to levels never seen before. The key questions 
are: How high will grain prices rise? When will the crunch come? And what will 
be the worldwide effect of rising food prices? 

  

One reason for the low USDA projection is that it was released in February 
2006, well before the effect of surging oil prices on investment in fuel 
ethanol distilleries was fully apparent. Beyond this, USDA relies heavily on 
the Renewable Fuels Association (RFA), a trade group, for data on ethanol 
distilleries under construction, but the RFA data have lagged behind movement 
in the industry. 

  

We drew on four firms that collect and publish data on U.S. ethanol 
distilleries under construction. RFA is the one most frequently cited. The 
other three firms are Europe-based F.O. Licht, the publisher of World Ethanol 
and Biofuels Report; BBI International, which publishes Ethanol Producer 
Magazine; and the American Coalition for Ethanol (ACE), publisher of Ethanol 
Today. 

  

Unfortunately, the lists of plants under construction maintained by RFA, BBI, 
and ACE are not complete. Each contains some plants that are not on the other 
lists. Drawing on these three lists and on biweekly reports from F.O. Licht, 
EPI has compiled a more complete master list. For example, while we show 79 
plants under construction, RFA lists 62 plants. (We welcome any information 
that will improve this list, which can be viewed at  
www.earthpolicy.org/Updates/2007/Update63_data.htm.) 

  

According to the EPI compilation, the 116 plants in production on December 31, 
2006, were using 53 million tons of grain per year, while the 79 plants under 
construction—mostly larger facilities—will use 51 million tons of grain when 
they come online. Expansions of 11 existing plants will use another 8 million 
tons of grain (1 ton of corn = 39.4 bushels = 110 gallons of ethanol). 

  

In addition, easily 200 ethanol 

Re: [Biofuel] DISTILLERY DEMAND FOR GRAIN TO FUEL CARS

[DHAJOGLO]

 He knows about the process but stated the enegy inputs are higher then the 
traditional mashing/fermenting method for large scale production.  I am not at 
all familar with how the cellulose methods work.  I would posit its more 
efficient to grind up the plant, stalk, cob, corn and all and press it into 
fuel pellets (at least for home heat).
  
 On Friday, January 19, 2007 12:28 PM, MK DuPree wrote:

Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2007 12:28:01 -0600
From: MK DuPree
To: 
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] DISTILLERY DEMAND FOR GRAIN TO FUEL CARS

 
Hi Dave...you say, However, the plant operator did long to use the direct 
conversion method  of celluose to ethanol were it not for the even higher input 
costs.  I'm wondering if the operator has the ability to  convert cellulose to 
ethanol, but it's too expensive OR does the operator need  to acquire the 
ability to do so, but he thinks the start up costs in doing so  would be too 
expensive?  Do you know?  Thanks.  Mike  DuPree


- Original Message -
From:DHAJOGLO   
To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org   
Sent: Friday, January 19, 2007 11:45AM   
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] DISTILLERY DEMANDFOR GRAIN TO FUEL CARS   

   
 Its interesting you say that.  The Ethanol plant in WY islocated next door 
to a sugar beet processing plant.  They pointed out thecost of sugar beets 
is to high compared to the corn (though I'm not sure ifthey considered the 
energy inputs to converting the corn to sugar as part ofthose costs).  They 
mentioned they tried the molases from the sugarfactory but stated it was 
not as efficient as the corn.  I tend to thinkthey were'nt really 
interested in using another feed stock, even partially, intheir process.  
However, the plant operator did long to use the directconversion method of 
celluose to ethanol were it not for the even higher inputcosts.

Now, the point you make rasies the question, are we more hungryfor sugar or 
energy?  I'm not suggesting we actually debate that but itseems we like to 
over indulge in both!

-dave

On Friday, January 19, 2007 9:57 AM, Joe Street  wrote:

Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2007 10:57:29 -0500
From:  Joe Street
To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org
Subject: Re:  [Biofuel] DISTILLERY DEMAND FOR GRAIN TO FUEL CARS

I  think sugar beets are a better bet for use in ethanol production than
  corn.

Joe

Zeke Yewdall wrote:
 Now, using corn for fueling cars does sound like a lousy idea,but 
not because it might increase corn prices. Considering that corn now
sells for only about two thirds of what it costs to grow it, I don't see
this is such a bad thing.  Maybe farmers around the world couldsupport 
themselves again?  And perhaps if economics had any effect onfarms 
they'd be tempted to shift to better crops, instead of monocroppingcorn 
as a subsidized chemical plant input.  The corn economy in theUS is so 
messed up and bizzare, I don't know that I can support using cornfor 
anything anymore, let alone ethanol. 



   
On 1/18/07, FrantzDESPREZ [EMAIL PROTECTED]wrote: 

 
 


 

  

January  4, 2007 - 1 

  

Copyright © 2007 Earth Policy Institute   

  

DISTILLERY DEMAND FOR GRAIN TO FUEL CARS VASTLY  UNDERSTATED World May 
Be Facing Highest Grain Prices in  History 

  

Lester R. Brown  

  

Investment in fuel ethanol distilleries has  soared since the late-2005 
oil price hikes, but data collection in this  fast-changing sector has 
fallen behind. Because of inadequate data  collection on the number of 
new plants under construction, the quantity  of grain that will be 
needed for fuel ethanol distilleries has been  vastly understated. 
Farmers, feeders, food processors, ethanol  investors, and 
grain-importing countries are basing decisions on  incomplete data. 


  

The U.S. Department of Agriculture (USDA)  projects that distilleries 
will require only 60 million tons of corn  from the 2008 harvest. But 
here at the Earth Policy Institute (EPI), we  estimate that 
distilleries will need 139 million tons—more  than twice as much. If 
the EPI estimate is at all close to the mark, the  emerging competition 
between cars and people for grain will likely drive  world grain prices 
to levels never seen before. The key questions are:  How high will 
grain prices rise? When will the crunch come? And what  will be the 
worldwide effect of rising food prices? 

  

One reason for the low USDA projection is that  it was released in 
February 2006, well before the effect of surging oil  prices on 
investment in fuel ethanol distilleries was fully

[Biofuel] How to Hedge

[DHAJOGLO]

As I watch and learn it's interesting to note that hedging against an economic 
collapse is a difficult thing.  For instance, I don't own land that I can use 
to plant crops, raise live stock, and generally subside on.  Further, in order 
to get such land I either have to wait several years to save enough money or go 
into debt.  Normally, a small amount of debt would not be of concern.  But when 
an economy collapses, debt is one of the biggest concerns.  So how does one 
hedge without going into debt?  

I posit that co-ops are an option but they too become vulnerable in a 
depression.  Any ideas?

-dave

On Wednesday, December 06, 2006  9:27 PM, Kirk McLoren wrote:

Date: Wed, 6 Dec 2006 19:27:54 -0800 (PST)
From: Kirk McLoren
To: biofuel Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
Subject: [Biofuel] solar cell achieves 40.7% conversion efficiency

http://hardware.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=06/12/06/027228

  ...with DOE funding, a concentrator solar cell produced by 
 Boeing-Spectrolab has recently achieved a world-record conversion efficiency 
 of 40.7 percent, establishing a new milestone in sunlight-to-electricity 
 performance.


-
Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail beta.



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Re: [Biofuel] Jane Fonda

[DHAJOGLO]

I think the concept to remember here is that this 100 Women of the Century 
occurred in 1999 and it was a media title.  Its interesting that it popped up 
recently. I wonder what this individual, if he really exists, thinks of the 
present situation?

I don't know if this is the place for this or not. I got this in the mail the 
other day.  Personally I don't care for Jane, but that is immaterial anyway(  
not for the for all of the general reasons.)  Perhaps if nothing else it will 
open up some lively discussions.  I am riding the fence on this one.   I 
cannot substantiate any of it. Well here it is and may the discussion begin.

Jane Fonda is being honored as one of the 
100 Women of the Century. 
BY BARBRA WALTERS

Unfortunately, many have forgotten and still
countless others have never known how Ms.
Fonda betrayed not only the idea of our country,
but specific men who served and sacrificed
during Vietnam.


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Re: [Biofuel] Pellet fuel options

[DHAJOGLO]

Right... did some searches and found some pellet mills that may be purchased:

http://www.alibaba.com/productsearch/Pellet_Mill.html

Of course, these are just examples.  A little more searching may turn up a 
manual or semi-automated process/design.  You figure, rabbit feed is in the 
same form so that may also be an outlet for pellet producing.


-dave


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Re: [Biofuel] Pellet fuel options

[DHAJOGLO]

On Friday, November 03, 2006  9:04 AM, Mike Weaver wrote:
*burning glycerin produces the toxic gas acrolein

Probably not a good idea...
*

If you burn it hot enough the gas will not be a problem:

http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_glycerin.html



Jeromie Reeves wrote:

Now that is a left field idea. They would surely make the wood to the
correct size. I did no think they put off that much methane.
I know they put off naptha. The time to produce workable material would
be long, or need a very large setup. Time I can
manage over summer, space I have little of. I wonder how well the
pellets would soak up WVO/Glycerin? I could use far less
if they soaked up enough to burn hotter. That makes me wonder if the
auger pipe is hot enough to help wick the fire down into
the hopper? Its surely worth a few tests and trials. What would be
better as far as stability in a hot (150F) tube, WVO or
glycerin?


Jeromie

Joe Street wrote:



Hey Jeromie;

Look into termites.  Yeah I'm not joshin you.  Feed termites with the
wood and bind the dust they make with the glycerin.  If you put the
termite pile in a sealed container then you can harvest the methane
the termites produce and use it as fuel as well ;)

Joe

Jeromie Reeves wrote:



Dave: Nice link, you solved one of the issue, what to use as a binder.

Jason: That is a very interesting idea. I was under the impression that
WVO does not burn clean due to the FFA's.
   I was thinking of adding a burn ring to the stove so that it can do
waste oil burning but that too looked not to
   burn clean enough.

If WVO/Glycerin will burn clean enough then that mix should work well.
Now to find a method to chip branches
down to the needed size and not use more energy doing it then the final
product gives.

Jeromie


Jason Katie wrote:





what if some kind of sausage packer type press could be made for a mix of
sawdust and WVO or glycerine?
Jason
ICQ#:  154998177
MSN:  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
- Original Message -
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org
Sent: Wednesday, November 01, 2006 1:15 PM
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Pellet fuel options








You can probably create press of some type based on this concept:

http://www.newdawnengineering.com/website/paper/brick/

Paper, saw dust, straw, etc.  Plus, won't corn work as well?

-dave


On Wednesday, November 01, 2006  9:35 AM, Jeromie Reeves wrote:






Date: Wed, 01 Nov 2006 07:35:35 -0800
From: Jeromie Reeves
To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org
Subject: [Biofuel] Pellet fuel options

Hello. Does anyone else use a pellet stove? Prices have jumped this year






from $2.25~2.75 to $4.75+






That fairly dries up the reason to have/use the stove (cheaper cleaner
fuel then oil/propane/classic wood)
I am looking for other fuel options. I would love to produce my own
pellets as I have access to tons of
waste wood but it needs at least a season to be ready. I also have not
been able to find a pellet machine
that was not a million dollar investment. I have been thinking of using
straw and hay as we have plenty
of it here. Also there is a small personal mill in town that makes a
fair bit of sawdust. Does anyone know
of a pellet press or know of a way to make one?

Jeromie















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Re: [Biofuel] Pellet fuel options

[DHAJOGLO]

You can probably create press of some type based on this concept:

http://www.newdawnengineering.com/website/paper/brick/

Paper, saw dust, straw, etc.  Plus, won't corn work as well?

-dave


On Wednesday, November 01, 2006  9:35 AM, Jeromie Reeves wrote:

Date: Wed, 01 Nov 2006 07:35:35 -0800
From: Jeromie Reeves
To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org
Subject: [Biofuel] Pellet fuel options

Hello. Does anyone else use a pellet stove? Prices have jumped this year
from $2.25~2.75 to $4.75+
That fairly dries up the reason to have/use the stove (cheaper cleaner
fuel then oil/propane/classic wood)
I am looking for other fuel options. I would love to produce my own
pellets as I have access to tons of
waste wood but it needs at least a season to be ready. I also have not
been able to find a pellet machine
that was not a million dollar investment. I have been thinking of using
straw and hay as we have plenty
of it here. Also there is a small personal mill in town that makes a
fair bit of sawdust. Does anyone know
of a pellet press or know of a way to make one?

Jeromie


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Re: [Biofuel] IS WVO BIO-DEGRADABLE?

[DHAJOGLO]

I suppose you could compost it.  Just spreading it on the ground will probably 
take a while for it to break down.

-dave

On Tuesday, October 24, 2006 10:51 AM, ROY Washbish wrote:

Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2006 08:51:01 -0700 (PDT)
From: ROY Washbish
To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org
Subject: [Biofuel] IS WVO BIO-DEGRADABLE?

Hi All
I had a WVO spill in my basement and am wondering if
it is bio-degradable.
Can I dump this WVO on the land and expect it to go
away?
Thanks for your help.
Roy

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Re: [Biofuel] Check out http://www.bisonpress.com/homestead.html

[DHAJOGLO]

This is an interesting outlook.  I wonder if he has thought about what happens 
when you can't work or how he plans for accidents, illness, etc.  A community 
(such as the Amish) typically handles these costs of living.  He seems to 
suggest more of a Hermit approach rather than a community approach.

-dave

 Check out http://www.bisonpress.com/homestead.html
  be sure to scroll down



Click here: http://www.bisonpress.com/homestead.html



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Re: [Biofuel] Some composting

[DHAJOGLO]

From: Keith Addison
To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Some composting

Hello Dave

Do Canadians really say leafs? I thought everybody said leaves.

Keith,

  The Toronto pro hockey team is called the Maple Leafs so that was a 
reference to hockey ;)

Thanks for your input.  I have a nice supply of coffey grounds so I'll work 
those in.  I was going to use leaves because the ginko tree just dropped a 
tonne of green leaves in a day.

-dave



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Re: [Biofuel] Some composting

[DHAJOGLO]

I do indeed live on campus.  And I have been using some of the coffee grounds 
in my potted plants which are home to earth worms.  Next time you're down here 
stop in.  I work in the Department of Computer Science in La Salle Hall.

-dave


On Monday, October 16, 2006  7:23 AM, Fred Finch wrote:

Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2006 07:23:49 -0500
From: Fred Finch
To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Some composting

Hi Dave,

Keith is right, coffee grounds work great.  I assume that you are on campus,
right?  Go to the student food services (feedlot) and ask them for a bunch
of coffee grounds filters and all.  You will get a funny look but it is
perfect for compost.

BTW, I was down there visiting my niece last weekend (the 7th.) St. Marys is
a beautiful campus.

fred

On 10/15/06, Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 So, I have an abundance of leaves (leafs to those in Canada!  haha).
 Anyway, I would like to do some small scale, indoor composting
 (aerobic).  I was reading some notes on JTF but didn't seem to find
 the information of nitrogen ratio for the Household Compost
 Activator.  I would like to use mostly leaves and some vegie scraps
 along with peat moss.  But, how much urine to add?  I'm looking at
 the 20 gallon container size.
 
 Thanks,
 -dave

 Hello Dave

 Do Canadians really say leafs? I thought everybody said leaves.
 Anyway, these are autumn leaves, dropped by the trees for the winter?
 In which case they don't contain very much by way of nutrients, the
 tree extracts most of it before dropping them. Lots of carbon, not
 much N. Tree leaves aren't too easy to compost anyway, they have a
 waxy coating that doesn't encourage breakdown and they tend to pack,
 cutting off the air supply. Peat moss also has lots of carbon and not
 much N. Veggie scraps will have more N and less C, but it looks like
 you need to add a lot of N. The problem with adding it in the form of
 HCA is that you're also adding a lot of water that way, and if
 there's too much water it will clog up and go anaerobic. So I'm not
 very hopeful about that mixture.

 The volume isn't such a problem, bigger is easier, but I did some
 test compost in a 3-gallon pot the other day, it hit 60 deg C (140
 deg F) and composted well. 20 gallons should be fine.

 For the mix, try adding something dry and crumbly with lots of N -
 too much N won't hurt, the excess will be driven off (ammonia) until
 it hits the right ratio; too little N and it won't heat up properly
 (which is also the result of too much water or poor air supply). Dry
 coffee grounds would be a suitable source of N, but there are many
 others. Then add urine until it's wet enough: if you ball some up in
 your fist it should stay in a ball when you let go but should crumble
 up easily again, not pack together. It works best with a good air
 supply from underneath.

 Probably you'll have to tinker with it a bit before you get a feel
 for it, but please persevere, don't be discouraged, it's a real
 thrill the first time your compost gets hot, and it's about the
 earth-friendliest thing you can do. IMHO.

 Good luck, keep posting, lots of composters here to offer their help.

 Best

 Keith


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[Biofuel] Some composting

[DHAJOGLO]

So, I have an abundance of leaves (leafs to those in Canada!  haha).  Anyway, I 
would like to do some small scale, indoor composting (aerobic).  I was reading 
some notes on JTF but didn't seem to find the information of nitrogen ratio for 
the Household Compost Activator.  I would like to use mostly leaves and some 
vegie scraps along with peat moss.  But, how much urine to add?  I'm looking at 
the 20 gallon container size.

Thanks,
-dave


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Re: [Biofuel] Glow, River,

[DHAJOGLO]

If I recall, the US went to war with Iraq because they were hiding WMD's from 
the inspectors.  Iraq would not let the inspectors into the weapons facilities. 
 Based on that, shouldn't we go to war with the DOE, or, at the very least, 
Washington state?  They are clearly hiding a large dirty bomb that's been 
slowly exploding for several years.

Pisses me off.

Glow, River, Glow: Radioactive Leaks and Plumbers at Hanford

Jeffrey St. Clair

The outback of the Hanford Nuclear Reservation in eastern Washington
State is called the T-Farm, a rolling expanse of high desert sloping
toward the last untamed reaches of the Columbia River. The T stands
for tanks, huge single-hulled containers buried some fifty feet
beneath basalt volcanic rock and sand holding the lethal detritus of
Hanford's fifty-year run as the nation's H-bomb factory.
...
John Brodeur is one of the nation's top environmental engineers and a
world-class geologist. In 1997, after a whistleblower at Hanford
disclosed evidence that the groundwater beneath the central plateau
had been contaminated by plumes of radioactivity, Hazel O'Leary
commissioned Brodeur to investigate how far the contamination had
spread. It proved to be a nearly impossible assignment since the DOE
and its contractors had taken extreme measures to conceal the data or
avoid collecting it entirely.



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Re: [Biofuel] Glow, River,

[DHAJOGLO]

Ah yes, I nearly always forget to answer with my proper name: Dave.  But you 
can call me dhajoglo for short.



And what the heck does DHAJOGLO stand for???  My name is Mike DuPree.  I live 
in Lawrence, Kansas.  I'm going outside now.  


- Original Message - 
From: DHAJOGLO [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org
Sent: Tuesday, October 03, 2006 10:47 AM
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Glow, River,


 If I recall, the US went to war with Iraq because they were hiding WMD's 
 from the inspectors.  Iraq would not let the inspectors into the weapons 
 facilities.  Based on that, shouldn't we go to war with the DOE, or, at the 
 very least, Washington state?  They are clearly hiding a large dirty bomb 
 that's been slowly exploding for several years.
 
 Pisses me off.
 
Glow, River, Glow: Radioactive Leaks and Plumbers at Hanford

Jeffrey St. Clair

The outback of the Hanford Nuclear Reservation in eastern Washington
State is called the T-Farm, a rolling expanse of high desert sloping
toward the last untamed reaches of the Columbia River. The T stands
for tanks, huge single-hulled containers buried some fifty feet
beneath basalt volcanic rock and sand holding the lethal detritus of
Hanford's fifty-year run as the nation's H-bomb factory.
 ...
John Brodeur is one of the nation's top environmental engineers and a
world-class geologist. In 1997, after a whistleblower at Hanford
disclosed evidence that the groundwater beneath the central plateau
had been contaminated by plumes of radioactivity, Hazel O'Leary
commissioned Brodeur to investigate how far the contamination had
spread. It proved to be a nearly impossible assignment since the DOE
and its contractors had taken extreme measures to conceal the data or
avoid collecting it entirely.
 
 
 
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Re: [Biofuel] Illegal Immigration: The Treason Lobby

[DHAJOGLO]

Mike,
I just thought it was funny that the author actually indicted a few 
republicans rather than just try to blame the the whole thing on the bleeding 
heart lets-give-the-country-away-to-brown-people liberals!

On Thursday, September 28, 2006  8:17 AM, Mike Weaver wrote:
Actually, one could argue convincingly that it's a Republican (or
whatever they are now) movement - our balance of trade deficit has
balloned up Bush to the highest
levels ever and we're borrowing more abroad than ever.

DHAJOGLO wrote:

Hey, at least its a bipartisan movement towards, what was it?, liberal 
internationalism.  What would be the opposite?  Conservative Isolationism?  
I don't think China would allow us to become isolationists since we're 
they're number one customer!  hahaha.  Man, I feel like I'm starting to sound 
like Weaver!



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Re: [Biofuel] Illegal Immigration: The Treason Lobby

[DHAJOGLO]

I would argue that it was *many* brown nations... but that's just splitting 
hairs.


On Thursday, September 28, 2006 10:59 AM, Mike Weaver wrote:

Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2006 11:59:40 -0400
From: Mike Weaver
To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Illegal Immigration: The Treason Lobby

It was a brown country before we got here

DHAJOGLO wrote:

Mike,
I just thought it was funny that the author actually indicted a few 
 republicans rather than just try to blame the the whole thing on the 
 bleeding heart lets-give-the-country-away-to-brown-people liberals!

On Thursday, September 28, 2006  8:17 AM, Mike Weaver wrote:


Actually, one could argue convincingly that it's a Republican (or
whatever they are now) movement - our balance of trade deficit has
balloned up Bush to the highest
levels ever and we're borrowing more abroad than ever.

DHAJOGLO wrote:



Hey, at least its a bipartisan movement towards, what was it?, liberal 
internationalism.  What would be the opposite?  Conservative Isolationism? 
 I don't think China would allow us to become isolationists since we're 
they're number one customer!  hahaha.  Man, I feel like I'm starting to 
sound like Weaver!





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Re: [Biofuel] Illegal Immigration: The Treason Lobby

[DHAJOGLO]

Hey, at least its a bipartisan movement towards, what was it?, liberal 
internationalism.  What would be the opposite?  Conservative Isolationism?  I 
don't think China would allow us to become isolationists since we're they're 
number one customer!  hahaha.  Man, I feel like I'm starting to sound like 
Weaver!

Interesting article

Blankhttp://libertypost.org/cgi-bin/readart.cgi?ArtNum=159963

Mary Lynn Schmidt



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Re: [Biofuel] [OT] was... was..Bring loaded firearms aboard

[DHAJOGLO]

Tallex,

  Good question.  They're not allowed to leave Texas airspace.  So far, its 
more dangerous to eat spinach than it is to be flying with terrorists.  So only 
one air marshal should be good.

-dave

On Friday, September 22, 2006  3:12 AM, AltEnergyNetwork wrote:

Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2006 08:12:21 +
From: AltEnergyNetwork
To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org
Subject: [Biofuel] was... was..Bring loaded firearms aboard

Sounds cool, but big problem though.  Where are you going to be able to fly 
these wackos with out causing
collateral damage when one of them accidentally kills the pilot and the 
plane flys into a building a la WTC,

For a general rule though, I think maybe two armed air marshals would be a 
good idea on all flights. I would feel safer flying, anyway. The world has 
changed and we have to to cope with the stark realities of dangerous times.


regards
tallex


  On 9/20/06, DHAJOGLO  [LINK: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:Tallex,

  Don't be too harsh...  If they want an old west ariline where they can
  have shoot outs then they should be able to have it.  Just because one nut
  case came up with it doesn't mean other nut cases wouldn't love to fly such
  an airline.  They need a place to shoot each other while smoking and
  drinking, and at least they're secured in a metal tube away from the place
  I like to go to smoke and drink!  hahaha.

  -dave

  On Wednesday, September 20, 2006  2:51 AM, AltEnergyNetwork wrote:
  
  Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2006 07:51:44 +
  From: AltEnergyNetwork
  To: [LINK: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
  biofuel@sustainablelists.org
  Subject: [Biofuel] was..Bring loaded firearms aboard
  
  Yes, I can imagine 2 passengers having a few drinks, then getting in to
  an arguement about something. One of them politely asks a flight attendant
  for a few rounds to take out the other one...what fun. I think I'll pass on
  those flights as well. Was this nut case, a conservative blogger by any
  chance?
  
  regards
  tallex













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Re: [Biofuel] was...was.. Bring loaded firearms aboard

[DHAJOGLO]

I believe I already alluded to this as the Maple Curitan.  haha.

On Friday, September 22, 2006 11:13 AM, Paul S Cantrell wrote:

Oh yeah?  Well, the US is going to build a freakin' 3,000 mile long fence
along the 49th with canadian lumber and Mexican workers!

(Tongue firmly planted in cheek)





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Re: [Biofuel] was..Bring loaded firearms aboard

[DHAJOGLO]

Tallex,

  Don't be too harsh...  If they want an old west ariline where they can have 
shoot outs then they should be able to have it.  Just because one nut case came 
up with it doesn't mean other nut cases wouldn't love to fly such an airline.  
They need a place to shoot each other while smoking and drinking, and at least 
they're secured in a metal tube away from the place I like to go to smoke and 
drink!  hahaha.

-dave

On Wednesday, September 20, 2006  2:51 AM, AltEnergyNetwork wrote:

Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2006 07:51:44 +
From: AltEnergyNetwork
To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org
Subject: [Biofuel] was..Bring loaded firearms aboard

Yes, I can imagine 2 passengers having a few drinks, then getting in to an 
arguement about something. One of them politely asks a flight attendant for a 
few rounds to take out the other one...what fun. I think I'll pass on those 
flights as well. Was this nut case, a conservative blogger by any chance?

regards
tallex


  ---Original Message---
  From: bob allen [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Bring loaded firearms aboard
  Sent: 18 Sep '06 12:43
  
  guns and liquor, now there is a winning combination.
  I'll pass on that flight.
  
  Chip Mefford wrote:
   D. Mindock wrote:
   Garrison makes some good points. Peace, D. Mindock
  
   --interesting read snipped.
  
   Once upon a time, not so very long ago,
  
   I recall some blogger or loudmouth going on and on about his
   idea for an air line.
  
   This would be an international airline.
  
   The deal was,
  
   1)You can bring your own sidearm, you just have to use
   our ammo**
   2) You can drink on our airline.
   3) you can smoke cigars,cigarettes,pipe in our smoking
   lounge.
   4) Once over international air-space, you can smoke pot/hash
   on board our airline. (in our smoking lounge)
   5)you can handcarry your baggage.
  
   **ammo would be standard stuff with a turned nylon
   slug, which is lethal at close range, but has very
   very poor penetration.
  
   Now, as to how you get legal pot/hash aboard in the first
   place, I have no idea.
   But I thought it was interesting.
  
   His point was, you could charge whatever you wanted for fares,
   and would probably solid-book every flight, and in fact,
   have huge waiting lists.
  
   I know I'd fly this airline.
  
  
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  --
  --
  Bob Allen,http://ozarker.org/bob
  --
  -
  The modern conservative is engaged in one of Man's oldest exercises
  in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral
  justification for selfishness  JKG
  
  
  
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Re: [Biofuel] socialism, taxes, economics, comments please.

[DHAJOGLO]

On Monday, September 18, 2006  1:16 PM, Chip Mefford wrote:

Date: Mon, 18 Sep 2006 14:16:21 -0400
From: Chip Mefford
To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org
Subject: [Biofuel] socialism, taxes, economics, comments please.

Spent a lot of hours behind the wheel these last few weeks.
Driving from the 'services' economy of the greater mid-atlantic
Washington DC USA region, through rural WV, and Pa, up through
industrialized and agricultural southern Canada, down through
agricultural and tourist economy of northern Michigan/UP...

A model came to mind.

A Very Simple Economic Model.
-

Albert, the blacksmith.
Earns the equiv of $24,000 US a year
plying his trade.

Beverly, the mortgage banker.
Earns the equiv of $240,000 US a year,
plying her trade.

Charles, the surgeon,
Earns the equiv of $2.400,000 US a year
plying his trade

Emily, the CEO,
Earns the equiv of $24,000,000 US a year
plying her trade.

In this community, folks work 8 hours a day
to fulfill their trade obligations, no more,
no less.

In this community, folks work 5 days a week
to fulfill their trade obligations, no more,
no less.

In this community, folks work 48 weeks a year
to fulfill their trade obligations, no more,
no less.

In this community where Albert, Beverly,
Charles and Emily live, it takes 1 hour
to go the communal well, and draw the
water needed for the day, and haul it
back to their respective domiciles.

---

Q1.
What is an hours labour worth in this community?


The worth of the water hour is the same to all.  While others may be able to 
pay someone else to fetch the water, it still takes an hour and it still 
provides the same benefit.

Q2.
Should the community consider bringing in cheap labour
to haul their water?

No, bringing in a water hauler will not change the structure only increase the 
cost (even if it is cheap labor).  


Q3,
Should the community levee a tax and use the tax to
pay the cheap labour to haul the water?

Same as above, just makes the cost distributed through a political structure.

Q3.1
  If so, at what rate should Albert, Beverly, Charles
and Emily be taxed?

Emily would call for a flat tax, citing that she uses the same amount of water 
as everyone else.  The others would argue a progressive tax.  Neither of which 
is ideal.



Discussion.



The simple analysis, in my opinion, would not look at the water but look at the 
disparate nature of the economic structure...  If they all earned the same or 
if all but one earned the same the water equation would not change.  Thus, the 
water structure isn't a problem, it diverts attention from the problem.

What is this hour devoted to drawing water worth?
Since there are 24 hours in the day, and all the
hours are spoken for, doing the regular stuff,
like raising kids, cleaning house, working,
fiddling about, and occasionally watching NFL
or world cup rallye, the only reason to do offload
the hauling of water duty would be to gain an extra
hour of free time.

So, to Albert, an hour of free time is essentially
worth $1000 over a year. To Beverly, $10,000, to
Charles $100,000 and to Emily $1,000,000.



Discussion
How does the Nash Equilibrium bear on this
scenario?

-

Somewhere, I'm sure this Very Simple Model is
already addressed. If someone could point me to
a paper, I'd greatly appreciate it.

Comments please.

thanks.






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[Biofuel] Cheney-Specter bill, S. 2453.

[DHAJOGLO]

Time to pardon the president for illegal spying, override the constitutional 
separation of powers, and continue down the path of fascism.

http://blog.aclu.org/index.php?/archives/67-A-Terrible-Bill,-A-Temporary-Sigh-of-Relief.html
http://www.oregonlive.com/editorials/oregonian/index.ssf?/base/editorial/1154112920105090.xmlcoll=7


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Re: [Biofuel] Decrease in fuel prices

[DHAJOGLO]

Uncertainty.  That has been the coherent reason for a ages.  War in 
Afghanistan, oil prices went up when no real impact on oil production occurred. 
 The mere mention of a hurricane and oil prices go up.  Israel pounds Lebanon 
and oil prices go up.  You and I would like a coherent explanation, but the 
ground work is laid.  On November 8 some conflict will happen then uncertainty 
will set in and oil prices will go up.  Its like groundhog day: if Exxon's CEO 
sees his shadow in the morning, uncertainty will surely follow and profits... 
er, I mean, the price of oil goes up because of the laws of Supply and DEMAND 
(as in, I DEMAND YOUR MONEY).

ps.  Imagine if I actually guessed the date right.. I would probably get a 
visit from the Gestapo... na.. the Bushtapo!


On Friday, September 15, 2006  7:57 AM, Zeke Yewdall wrote:

Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2006 06:57:32 -0600
From: Zeke Yewdall
To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Decrease in fuel prices

I hadn't noticed it, because I never buy regular fuel any more, but I did
hear some people talking about it last night.  I hope that this doesn't help
the bush administration in the elections.  If they can't offer a coherent
explanation of what they've done to decrease fuel prices, voters who really
think about it shouldn't reward them for a momentary decrease in prices, but
how many potential bush voters will think it through that thoroughly?

Zeke

On 9/15/06, Anthony Austin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Anyone who has not recently noticed the large decrease in the price of
 fuel at the pump would do well to think about it.  I suggest that this
 administration in cahoots with the oil cartels is behind the drop for
 strictly political purposes and that the price will go back sky high
 immediately after the November elections...Tony Austin



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Re: [Biofuel] Disney

[DHAJOGLO]

Mike, you can deal with the Iranians after you get that crabgrass out of your 
yard!
   
On Monday, September 11, 2006  7:49 AM, Mike Weaver wrote:

Now we've opened a huge geopolitical hole for the Iranians to exploit,
and they'll wind up with all of Southern Iraq and its oil fields, unless
we pretty much stay forever. Not too shrewd, IMHO.




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Re: [Biofuel] Disney [offically OT]

[DHAJOGLO]

I hear a barrel of crude oil does a good job of killing crabgrass (and otters, 
should you have any of those)

On Monday, September 11, 2006  8:33 AM, Mike Weaver wrote:

Date: Mon, 11 Sep 2006 09:33:17 -0400
From: Mike Weaver
To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Disney

I'm going to put Monsanto brand Glucophosphate on it.

DHAJOGLO wrote:

Mike, you can deal with the Iranians after you get that crabgrass out of your 
yard!

On Monday, September 11, 2006  7:49 AM, Mike Weaver wrote:



Now we've opened a huge geopolitical hole for the Iranians to exploit,
and they'll wind up with all of Southern Iraq and its oil fields, unless
we pretty much stay forever. Not too shrewd, IMHO.






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Re: [Biofuel] Disney

[DHAJOGLO]

Gregg,

   I know its splitting hairs, but bear in mind, if you don't understand 
impeachment, then it follows that there is a great deal of things may fail to 
understand about this situation.  Impeachment is not removal from office, its 
leveling charges against someone in office.  Thus, Clinton WAS impeached, just 
not kicked out.

This is VERY important because if you don't understand a very simple fact about 
the Clinton administraton, how can you claim to know anyting more complex?

I don't think anyone on this list thinks Clinton was the best president ever.  
I'm sure most will agree that he was an idiot and lied to the country.  And, 
somehow, all of this evidence against Clinton does not explain why 9/11 
occured.  And, a docudrama with fictional dialogue certainly does not tell any 
sort of truth.


Clinton was never impeached, he remained in office. He basically received a 
slap on the wrist and was disbarred for a short period of time. Our 
military personnel knew what they were getting into when they VOLUNTEERED for 
service. Nobody was drafted.

I believe some foreign civilians might have been killed too, just in
case anyone's interested. Yes, you're quite right, as a result of Clinton 
bombing an aspirin/ibuprofen/acetominaphine factory. I do not dispute that 
Iraqi civilians have been killed. Unfortunately, when cowardly terrorist hide 
among civilians it's impossible to keep that from happening.


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Re: [Biofuel] was Disney, now god

[DHAJOGLO]

There is a slight flaw here:

Pascal's Wager
Expresses the conviction that belief in God is rational; if God does not
exist, one stands to lose nothing by believing in him, while if he does
exist, one stands to lose everything by not believing.


What if you believe in the wrong god?  Faith is based on proofless belief, 
thus, there is no proof that the god you believe in is the right one.  So, 
belief doesn't guarentee you won't lose everything.


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Re: [Biofuel] Disney

[DHAJOGLO]

On Sunday, September 10, 2006  7:31 AM, Gregg Davidson wrote:
I hope Disney grows some major cojones, ones the size of 16lb bowling balls, 
calls the Democrat/Liberal bluff,  runs the mini series anyway.

Well, I would imagine Disney/ABC wouldn't need huevos that large to spin a few 
lies about 9/11... I mean, after all, BushCo has manged to lie up one side and 
down the other and I'm quite certian they all have tiny tiny testies.


Sounds to me like the Clinton Admistration's Legacy will stand up to what's in 
the mini series like a vampire does to sunlight.


According to the abc website, this story goes back to 1993 to start the tale of 
Osama and 9/11.. Seems if they want to blame some people they may as well start 
back when Reagan was underwriting the conflict in Afganastan, or when Reagan 
traded arms with both Iran and Iraq, or when Bush Senior really pissed off 
Osama with Air Bases in Saudi Arabia during the first Gulf War.  After all of 
that, it does seem Clinton is a bastard for boinking a secretary rather than 
toying with the middle east like the two presidents before him.



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Re: [Biofuel] Disney

[DHAJOGLO]

Gregg,
I don't mean to get you too upset.  But, hypocracy runs thick when it comes 
to this mini-series.  I don't doubt that Clinton's administration could have 
done things differently but remember, the attack came on BushCo's watch and the 
seeds were planted over several years.

On Sunday, September 10, 2006  6:28 PM, Gregg Davidson wrote:
  Bush Lied! Bush Lied!! Bush Lied!!! Can't you people come up with something 
 better than that?

Its interesting, they impeached Clinton for a lie.  The country was outraged at 
such an atrocity as a lie to the nation.  Would you suggest a lie about illicit 
sex is worse then a lie that has led to the deaths of the US's service men and 
women?  Or a lie about why 3000 people lost their lives in 9/11?


  I'm so sorry we pissed off Uncle Osama. We'd better not make him mad or 
 he'll do some really mean like call the ACLU on us.

Hey, I would love to see Osama captured.  But blaming his actions on one 
presidency only serves those who would hide from the truth.  And my suggestion 
that Clinton was no more at fault then the two presidents previous to him (not 
even including Eisenhower's successful attempt at destabilizing Iran) still 
stands.  Thus, to propagate a story that places blame for 9/11 at the feet of 
the Clinton administration is not only unfair but down right unpatriotic and 
un-American.  Its deplorable to those who suffered loss to lie about why and 
how it happened.

-dave


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Re: [Biofuel] Disney

[DHAJOGLO]

Very good point, Keith.  Though, invisible would give us an excuse. I would say 
conveniently ignored.


From: Keith Addison
I believe some foreign civilians might have been killed too, just in
case anyone's interested.

ICH: 62,006 - 180,000, The number killed in the 'war on terror'
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article14906.htm

Number Of Iraqi Civilians Slaughtered In America's War? As Many As 250,000
http://www.marchforjustice.com/shockawe.php

Eg. And the rest!

All strangely invisible from within the borders of the US somehow.

Best

Keith




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[Biofuel] The laws of supply and demand need not apply.

[DHAJOGLO]

This is a strong indicator, in my opinion, that the oil companies are price 
gouging (preaching to the choir... I know).  When called to bear BP invokes 5th 
amendment, and dispite the drop in production, the price of oil goes down.  
Supply and demand states it should go up.  My guess, a nice reduction in oil 
prices just before an election never hurts those in power.


Prudhoe Bay, located on Alaska's northern coast above the Arctic Circle, is of 
major importance to the United States, generating 400,000 barrels of oil a day, 
or about 8 percent of the country's domestic oil production, when it's fully 
operating.

BP cut production at the field in half in August after government-mandated 
inspections revealed severe corrosion.


http://money.cnn.com/2006/09/07/news/companies/bp/index.htm?cnn=yes


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Re: [Biofuel] Google's filtering segue into Iran

[DHAJOGLO]

Dubious indeed.  I tried Apple Pie and immediatly noticed that, while both 
sides were the same set of links, the chinese side had all of their stuff 
encoded with weird characters of little lines in strange shapes.  haha... 

But all jokes aside, this does underscore that the internet is now a comercial 
entity and as such, the highest bidder gets the goods.  Thus, China can pay to 
omit what ever they like... I googled Gao Zhisheng and found sufficient links 
to notice they are not really on the ball with their censoring.  Then I 
searched for china at cnn.com... the first thing I got, ads about visiting 
china, and then some articles about Iran???  this one was quite interesting:

http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/meast/08/29/iran.nuclear/index.html

I would pay lots of money to see that debate!

-dave

p.s. This one turned up interesting results: google censorship china



On Wednesday, August 30, 2006 10:33 AM, Kirk McLoren wrote:

Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2006 08:33:02 -0700 (PDT)
From: Kirk McLoren
To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] see firsthand the extent of Google's filtering

I tried Palestine war
  as my 2 search words
  I got
http://www.thefirstpost.co.uk/index.php?menuID=1subID=682

  on the Chinese one and not on ours.

  Weird.
  Almost like filtering in both directions.

  Kirk

D. Mindock [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  China has earned the dubious distinction as the world leader in filtering
Internet content. The Chinese state-run Internet censoring system is without
parallel, both in the technical sophistication of the filtering apparatus
and in the breadth of topics subject to blocking.
To see firsthand the extent of Google's filtering in China,
you can visit the OpenNet Initiative's Google China Search
Comparison webpage at:

http://opennet.net/google_china/

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Re: [Biofuel] Google search FAILURE

[DHAJOGLO]

This has been like this for a while.  I remember this a year or so ago (could 
have been longer).  The more people do it, the stronger that page is against 
the word failure.

What they need to do get the words evil linked to shrub.




On Wednesday, August 23, 2006 12:11 AM, Marylynn Schmidt wrote:

Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2006 05:11:08 +
From: Marylynn Schmidt
To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
Subject: [Biofuel] Google search FAILURE

Subject: Google knows everything
1- Go to www.Google.com
2- Type in Failure
3- Look at the first listing and laugh at what comes up first
4- Tell others before the people at Google Fix it!



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[Biofuel] Kind of... interesting?

[DHAJOGLO]

So I get this cyptic email from a collegue stating the Armada he had been 
waiting for has finally arived.  So he proceeds to describe how he went to the 
Armada down at the river and had a tour of the raft, brought them some cookies, 
chocolate, and rope and was impressed.  Needless to say, I was just about as 
confused as you should be about now:

The story:  A group of people (many would say crazy) put together a raft to 
float down the Mississippi.  Truly, any description I give cannot do justice to 
their own.  Check it out here: http://www.missrockaway.org/wordpress/

the blog is the best place to start.

And now that I have your (in)attention... here is the relevant part.  The 
engineering of the raft was actually planned out and motors they crafted use VW 
Rabbit diesels that run on WVO:

http://www.missrockaway.org/wordpress/?page_id=39

Considering all the depressing news, this should provide a small break from the 
toil and torment.

-dave


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Re: [Biofuel] Fwd: Liquid Bombers Prove: They Hate Our Freedoms

[DHAJOGLO]

I have heard tell of AP from the chemistry students (the naughty ones) here at 
work.  From what I gather, the description is true, that it takes a good deal 
of time to precipitate out the final product making it problematic to produce 
in the confines of an airline flight.  If it could be done on an airline (say a 
nice trans-atlantic flight) then the result could be bad since the velocity of 
detonation is about 5/6ths that of TNT.  However, I'm of the opinion that it 
was not fesiable and the conspiricy has some merit.

It seems to me that the ideal explosive on a plane would be a few rolls of 
Mentos and some Soda Pop...  Oh great... now nobody will be able to take mentos 
on a plane.


On Sunday, August 20, 2006  8:25 PM, bob allen wrote:


Howdy Kirk, it's kind of hard to say.  The published procedures for safely 
manufacturing the acetone 
peroxide does take cooling and way too much time; however, I wouldn't be 
surprised if throwing 
concentrated hydrogen peroxide, acetone and sulfuric acid together at room 
temperature might react 
rapidly to form the Acetone peroxide, and subsequently explode.  To a suicide 
bomber that isn't a 
problem.  As I recall, the  stuff was used as the explosive in the London 
subway bombing, but it was 
prepared ahead of time of course.

I have a colleague who just loves to blow things up.  Maybe I can get her to 
try a very small scale 
reaction at room temperature behind a blast shield in a hood.




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Re: [Biofuel] sticker on diesel pumps.

[DHAJOGLO]

I think its safe to say that all states have or will have them... Colorado and 
Minnesota have them.

-dave

On Saturday, August 19, 2006  7:59 PM, Gregg Davidson wrote:

Date: Sat, 19 Aug 2006 17:59:31 -0700 (PDT)
From: Gregg Davidson
To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] sticker on diesel pumps.

Those stickers have been on GA diesel pumps since June.

Debra [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:  Add CT to the list
- Original Message -
  From: Thomas Kelly
  To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org
  Sent: Saturday, August 19, 2006 6:47 PM
  Subject: Re: [Biofuel] sticker on diesel pumps.


  Kirk,
   Saw the same in NY, PA, NC, SC,  FL on recent trip.
   Tom
- Original Message -
  From: Kirk McLoren
  To: biofuel
  Sent: Saturday, August 19, 2006 4:53 PM
  Subject: [Biofuel] sticker on diesel pumps.


  A friend phoned from Montana and said all the diesel pumps there have a 
 sticker that the fuel in that pump is not to be used in 2007 diesel trucks.
  Has anyone seen these stickers in their state?

  Kirk


-
  Stay in the know. Pulse on the new Yahoo.com. Check it out.
-

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Re: [Biofuel] the tax man cometh

[DHAJOGLO]

Does the tax apply even if you are producing it as an additive?

-dave


On Monday, August 07, 2006  4:13 PM, bob allen wrote:

Date: Mon, 07 Aug 2006 16:13:54 -0500
From: bob allen
To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org
Subject: [Biofuel] the tax man cometh

I recently received a letter from the Arkansas Department of finance.  I am to 
herewith submit 22.5
cents per gallon of biodiesel produced.  I guess that this happened because of 
an article that
appeared in a statewide newspaper, concerning my manufacture of biodiesel as a 
student project.
(Some pin-headed commercial producer felt that I should be paying my fair 
share of taxes), which I
don't mind.

Now if I can just figure out how to get the 50 cent-a-gallon produce tax 
credit.

--
Bob Allen, http://ozarker.org/bob
=
The modern conservative is engaged in one of Man's oldest exercises in moral 
philosophy; that is,
the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness  JKG

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Re: [Biofuel] Wolf attack near Grangeville

[DHAJOGLO]

On Monday, August 07, 2006  6:57 PM, JJJN wrote:

Date: Mon, 07 Aug 2006 16:57:27 -0700
From: JJJN
To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Wolf attack near Grangeville

...Don't get me wrong I like to see wolves but I struggle with 
how they fit into the agricultural areas of Eastern Montana. 

I think you are struggling with the wrong question: how do we fit into the 
wolves habitat after having turned it into an agricultural area?  I, for one, 
blame the Canadians and feel we should build a large wolf fence between us and 
Canada.  I call it, The Maple Curtain!


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Re: [Biofuel] Wolf attack near Grangeville

[DHAJOGLO]

Kirk,
   I think I understand your position.  And wolves are very keen preditors but 
again, I reiterate this link: 

http://www.ers.usda.gov/news/BSECoverage.htm

Cattle inventory

* January 1, 2003:
  o U.S.—96.1 million, down from 1996 peak of 103.5 million
  o Canada—13.5 million head
*  January 1, 2004
  o U.S.—94.9 million head (cyclical low)
  o Canada—14.7 million head


With an estimated 50,000 wolves 
(http://www.wolfsongalaska.org/canadian_wolves.html) it appears that Canada 
still has cows.

Now, lets look at the per capita comparisons:

.4 cows per person in Canada (32,000,000 pop: 
http://www40.statcan.ca/l01/cst01/demo02.htm?sdi=population )
.3 cows per person in the US (presuming 295 million as the population)

In 1982, the US had about 39 Million head of beef cattle and now, we have 33.9 
million. http://usda.mannlib.cornell.edu/usda/current/Catt/Catt-07-21-2006.pdf 
and there seems enough to go around.  As far as the wildlife are concerned, 
that too is too complex to simply sum up with local data.

So, yes, many don't see the wolf problem in the news.  But then again, those 
who do see it probably fail to look at the broader picture and just presume 
that Wolves are a threat to all of us.  Like I said, in Minnesota wolves are an 
issue but I don't fear for my life and the wildlife is certainly not doing 
badly with the wolves. http://www.dnr.state.mn.us/mammals/deer/facts.html and 
http://www.mnforsustain.org/wolf_mech_and_nelson_wolves_deer_harvest.htm show 
the numbers for wolves and deer in this state.  The first link fails to mention 
the 200,000 deer harvested by hunting vs. the 40,000 by wolves.

Anecdotal evidence is useful but the story, just as with the article you 
posted, is never told in its entirety and must be taken as just that, anecdotal 
and not universal.  We make jokes about it, not to make fun of you but because 
we are not alarmed at the issue.  Besides, my joke about the curtain was a 
subtext about the proposed fence between the US and Mexico.

Regards,
-dave


On Tuesday, August 08, 2006 12:04 PM, Kirk McLoren wrote:

Date: Tue, 8 Aug 2006 10:04:45 -0700 (PDT)
From: Kirk McLoren
To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Wolf attack near Grangeville

The Canadians wet themselves laughing when we trapped wolves to take South. 
And a hearty thank you eh. If you want to understand what is coming here 
examine where we got the wolves. One fellow setting traps said he saw 1 deer 
print in 10 days. Thats all - the sum total. Everything. --If that is your 
idea of ecology have at it.



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Re: [Biofuel] Wolf attack near Grangeville

[DHAJOGLO]

Kirk,
   I can't tell from your comment on this article whether you feel issues with 
wolves are dealt with improperly or if you feel the meat industry is going to 
take a real beating from them.  We have wolves here in Minnesota and the 
farmers truly  hate them.  However, seeing as how the northern states make up a 
smaller percentage of beef production, it seems the wolf impact would be 
negligible.  Looking at the USDA site, it appears that the beef populations 
would have to take a significant hit (in the order of hundreds of thousands) to 
really be impacted.  Also, reading the post by Richard, he seems more concerned 
about the game populations and our safety.

Anyway, here is the link to the USDA with the numbers of our cattle industry: 
http://www.ers.usda.gov/news/BSECoverage.htm

Regards,
-dave

Date: Mon, 7 Aug 2006 11:03:57 -0700 (PDT)
From: Kirk McLoren
To: biofuel Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
Subject: [Biofuel] Wolf attack near Grangeville

If you think beef is expensive now wait till more of them start
hunting cows instead of deer and elk. A wolf in Stanfield killed 8
steers in one night. So much for they only kill for food. They
started on sheep last year. Some ranchers are going out of business
soon. One fellow lost over 60 ewes this spring.
I bet none of you read any of this in the newspaper though. Or on tv.
Kirk




Lady and Blackey: Cry Wolf

By Scott Richard

  Hi, my name is Scott Richards and


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Re: [Biofuel] CEI runs PRO CARBON DIOXIDE ADS

[DHAJOGLO]

I was not aware that censoring email systems were so common.  Sad really.   I 
suppose they are mostly corporate email systems.  anyway, thanks for the 
clarification.  I thought you were mentioning someone in the present 
administration.

-dave

On Thursday, May 25, 2006  7:23 PM, Jason Katie wrote:

Date: Thu, 25 May 2006 19:23:55 -0500
From: Jason Katie
To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] CEI runs PRO CARBON DIOXIDE ADS

most mail scanners won't write out his name, or will blank it out as such 
H* but he was the despot of Germany in the late 1930's and committed
suicide in the mid '40's after playing a very VERY large part in starting
WW2 and losing. he was a racist and a fool, and caused a lot of trouble.
almost as much trouble as america is causing today. this is why we equate
the present american Commander in Thief to AH

- Original Message -
From: DHAJOGLO [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org
Sent: Thursday, May 25, 2006 4:42 PM
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] CEI runs PRO CARBON DIOXIDE ADS


 Who is AH?  I don't catch your reference?

 On Thursday, May 25, 2006  4:13 PM, Jason Katie wrote:
wouldnt this be the 4th? i mean AH did finally fail, so the shrub would be
the 4th.
I always thought a good shirt would read:

 Secret Prisons, Cost: 1 Billion Dollars
 Illegally Kidnapping Foreign Citizens, Cost: 10 Billion Dollars
 Illegally Spying on Your Citizens, Cost: 20 Billion
 Transforming the US into the Third Reich: Priceless

 There are some things money can buy, for everything else there's Dick,
 Donald, and Dubya.




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Re: [Biofuel] How much water is used to produce ethanol? Please

[DHAJOGLO]

Doug,
  This really depends on how the ethanol is produced.  For instance, if you are 
doing the old fashion method of mashing then you will have greater water 
consupmtion versus a direct enzyme conversion (adding alpha/beta amalyse 
directly).  Additionally, water can be recovered from the solids after 
distillation has occured. Also, there may be water requirements for the 
condenser.  This water is in a closed system but may be important to you.

Generally, when fermeting your water/sugar mixture will yield a water/alcohol 
mixture.  This can range as high as 20% ethanol (though, I have never hit more 
then 15% personally).  So, best case, you are using roughly 4/5ths water for 
1/5th alcohol.  Of course that does not take into consideration any loss due to 
boiling/mashing/converting.

While that doesn't answer the specific question it may give you some info for 
further research.  I would suggest contacting an ethanol producer in your area. 
 They may be able to help you out.

-dave
KC0PBZ

On Friday, May 26, 2006  2:44 PM, Doug Younker wrote:

Date: Fri, 26 May 2006 14:44:40 -0500
From: Doug Younker
To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org
Subject: [Biofuel] How much water is used to produce ethanol? Please

I googled ethanol faq, visited this group's archives along with JtF
webpage.  In the event the answer to may question was there I evidently
scrolling by it.  ethanol is hoped to be the savior of the family farm
here in Western Kansas.  Recently a letter to the editor made some
claims of how much water was needed/used to produce one gallon of
ethanol.  Due to that I', looking for evidence of how much water is
really used.  Facilities to produce ethanol have been built, are being
built, the construction of more being planned for.  Water is an issue
here so how much water could we expect to use in the processing of grain
into ethanol?  I don't know if it makes a difference,some plants where
built with using Milo (grain sorghum).  Milo being selected because it
does well when dry land farmed.  Thanks...
--
Doug, N0LKK
Kansas USA




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Re: [Biofuel] CEI runs PRO CARBON DIOXIDE ADS

[DHAJOGLO]

I always thought a good shirt would read:

Secret Prisons, Cost: 1 Billion Dollars
Illegally Kidnapping Foreign Citizens, Cost: 10 Billion Dollars
Illegally Spying on Your Citizens, Cost: 20 Billion
Transforming the US into the Third Reich: Priceless

There are some things money can buy, for everything else there's Dick, Donald, 
and Dubya.

On Thursday, May 25, 2006  8:06 AM, Joe Street wrote:
Actually I know this is a bit of a joke but I bought some t-shirts
lately.  One is a hoody with a silhouette of the shrub and a swastika on
his forehead and the caption 'WAR CRIMINAL' another has a pic of the
shrub and the caption INTERNATIONAL TERRORIST as well as the Dick is a
killer t-shirt I mentioned before.  I work in an educational institution
so I have to be serious about the impression I make on young minds. I
wear these shirts as often as possible.

Joe




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Re: [Biofuel] CEI runs PRO CARBON DIOXIDE ADS

[DHAJOGLO]

Who is AH?  I don't catch your reference?

On Thursday, May 25, 2006  4:13 PM, Jason Katie wrote:
wouldnt this be the 4th? i mean AH did finally fail, so the shrub would be
the 4th.
I always thought a good shirt would read:

 Secret Prisons, Cost: 1 Billion Dollars
 Illegally Kidnapping Foreign Citizens, Cost: 10 Billion Dollars
 Illegally Spying on Your Citizens, Cost: 20 Billion
 Transforming the US into the Third Reich: Priceless

 There are some things money can buy, for everything else there's Dick,
 Donald, and Dubya.




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Re: [Biofuel] Energy Problem Solved! Here Comes the Turboencabulator!

[DHAJOGLO]

fromaging the bituminous spandrels

Translation:
 
Cheesing the flammable hydrocarbon space between two arches and a horizontal 
molding



On Thursday, May 25, 2006  4:02 PM, Mike Redler wrote:

Date: Thu, 25 May 2006 17:02:49 -0400
From: Mike Redler
To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org
Subject: [Biofuel] Energy Problem Solved! Here Comes the Turboencabulator!

The machine that makes all other machines obsolete!
http://www.doc.ic.ac.uk/%7Eids/dotdot/misc/jokes/turboencabulator.txt

Turboencabulator
JH Quick

[From The Institute of Electrical Engineers, Students Quarterly Journal 25]

For a number of years now, work has has been proceeding in order to bring
prefection to the crudely conceived idea of a machine that would work to not
only supply inverse reactive current, for use in unilateral phase detectors, 
but
would also be capable of automatically synchronising cardinal grammeters.  Such
a machine is the 'Turboencabulator'.  Basically, the only new principle 
involved
is that instead of the power being generated by the relaxive motion of
conductors and fluxes, it is produced by the modial interactions of magneto-
reluctance and capacitive directance.

The original machine had a base-plate of prefabulated amulite, surrounded by a
malleable logarithmic casing in such a way that the two spurving bearings were
in direct line with the pentametric fan, the latter consisted simply of six
hydrocoptic marzelvanes, so fitted to the ambifacient lunar vaneshaft that side
fumbling was effectively prevented.  The main winding was of the normal lotus-
o-delta type placed in panendermic semiboloid solts in the stator, every 
seventh
conductor being connected by a non-reversible termic pipe to the differential
girdlespring on the 'up' end of the grammeter.

Forty-one manestically placed grouting brushes were arrranged to feed into the
rotor slip stream a mixture of high S-value phenyhydrobenzamine and 5 percent
reminative tetraiodohexamine.  Both these liquids have specific pericosities
given by p=2.4 Cn where n is the diathecial evolute of retrograde temperature
phase disposition and C is the Chomondeley's annual grillage coefficient.
Initially, n was measured with the aid of a metapolar pilfrometer, but up to 
the
present date nothing has been found to equal the transcetental hopper 
dadoscope.

Electrical engineers will appreciate the difficulty of nubbing together a
regurgitative purwell and a superaminative wennel-sprocket.  Indeed, this 
proved
to be a stumbling block to further development until, in 1943, it was found 
that
the use of anhydrous nagling pins enabled a kyptonastic boiling shim to be
tankered.

The early attempts to construct a sufficiently robust spiral decommutator 
failed
largely because of lack of appreciation of the large quasi-pietic stresses in
the gremlin studs; the latter were specially designed to hold the roffit bars 
to
the spamshaft.  When, however, it was discovered that wending could be 
prevented
by the simple addition of teeth to socket, almost perfect running was secured.

The operating point is maintained as near as possible to the HF rem peak by
constantly fromaging the bituminous spandrels.  This is a distinct advance on
the standard nivelsheave in that no drammock oil is required after the phase
detractors have remissed.

Undoubtedly, the turboencabulator has now reached a very high level of 
technical
development.  It has been successfully used for operating nofer trunnions.  In
addition, whenever a barescent skor motion is required, it may be employed in
conjunction with a drawn reciprocating dingle arm to reduce sinusoidal
depleneration.



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Re: [Biofuel] CEI runs PRO CARBON DIOXIDE ADS

[DHAJOGLO]

Is this site supposed to be a joke then?  I hope not because I want to join the 
Anti-Dihydrogen Monoxide Coalition. hahaha


On Tuesday, May 23, 2006 12:05 AM, John Beale wrote:

Here's a good example of what I said about mentioning a hint of Chem
and how it causes people to cower and accept anything you say:

http://www.dhmo.org/environment.html




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Re: [Biofuel] CEI runs PRO CARBON DIOXIDE ADS

[DHAJOGLO]

Clearly the solution is not to hate CEI, but to kill all of the gazelles; what 
with their nasty CO2 poluting ways.  Its orginazations like CEI that keep the 
Daily Show in business.



This is a joke...Right?  I mean, surely ExxonMobil doesn't think that
we are ALL THIS DUMB, RIGHT?

The (surreal) videos of the 2 commercials:  http://streams.cei.org/

Backed by ExxonMobil.  Denialists with a vested interest.

Resources:
About CEI:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Competitive_Enterprise_Institute
 http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Competitive_Enterprise_Institute

Reuters: http://tinyurl.com/jfdcb

--
Thanks,
PC

He's the kind of a guy who lights up a room just by flicking a switch

We don't know a millionth of one percent about anything. - Thomas A Edison

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Re: [Biofuel] Are your free plans being sold on eBay?

[DHAJOGLO]

Keith,
   Do you think it would help if we all pressed ebay at once?

-dave

On Wednesday, May 17, 2006  3:11 PM, Keith Addison wrote:


I keep getting complaints about this guy who sells bits of the JtF
website on eBay. He's not the only one.

Quite a few people have reported him and complained about him, but it
doesn't work, eBay won't cooperate, they're pretty much complicit.
Maybe he could be put out of action but it would be a lot of work,
and someone else would replace him soon enough. He doesn't actually
do us any direct injury and we're too busy to chase him, so we grin
and bear it. There's one born every minute, especially on eBay, and
probably one yllar17 born every minute too, but we're more interested
in the other 259 people born every minute.



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Re: [Biofuel] Are your free plans being sold on eBay?

[DHAJOGLO]

I suppose I could put up an auction starting at $.01 with the same products and 
then put in the description something like:

If you are looking for a product like xxx, check JTF first to see if its free.

-dave

On Wednesday, May 17, 2006  3:52 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

Date: Wed, 17 May 2006 15:52:30 -0500
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Are your free plans being sold on eBay?

Keith,
   Do you think it would help if we all pressed ebay at once?

-dave

On Wednesday, May 17, 2006  3:11 PM, Keith Addison wrote:


I keep getting complaints about this guy who sells bits of the JtF
website on eBay. He's not the only one.

Quite a few people have reported him and complained about him, but it
doesn't work, eBay won't cooperate, they're pretty much complicit.
Maybe he could be put out of action but it would be a lot of work,
and someone else would replace him soon enough. He doesn't actually
do us any direct injury and we're too busy to chase him, so we grin
and bear it. There's one born every minute, especially on eBay, and
probably one yllar17 born every minute too, but we're more interested
in the other 259 people born every minute.



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Re: [Biofuel] Anhydrous potassium hydroxide(?)

[DHAJOGLO]

That does sound fishy.  I'm not certain of the hydrate quantity of KOH if left 
open to the atmosphere but anhydrous should be hydrate free.  If the bag is not 
air tight then your KOH most likely would have absorbed water and possibly CO2. 
 I'm not sure the process to dessicate KOH but JTF may have some tips.

-dave

On Sunday, May 14, 2006  7:35 PM, Marc Degagne wrote:

Date: Sun, 14 May 2006 19:35:29 -0500
From: Marc Degagne
To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
Subject: [Biofuel] Anhydrous potassium hydroxide(?)

Hello all

 I recently purchased a 20kg bag of 90% flake KOH that, _IF_ I have my
facts correct, has some conflicting information on the label.  It says
Potassium hydroxide-anhydrous followed by some safety info, then at
the bottom of the label it lists the contents of the bag as; potassium
hydroxide and water.  I thought anhydrous meant without water.  I
conducted a search online of the manufacturer to gather info but nothing
turned up.  In anyone's expert opinion is this something I need to be
concerned about?

Thanks

Marc








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Re: [Biofuel] The Hidden Agenda Behind the Bird Flu Hoax

[DHAJOGLO]

Two Davids, how funny,

I didn't comment about you or anything on Rush.  I mearly responded to Keith's 
comment about the way we politicise issues.  Rush is a deaf, racist, drug using 
moron.  If he happened to say something worth while I'm sure it was on accident.

I'm not to concerned about the actual flu.  I was simply pointing out the 
worthless tripe being spread from the dhs.  If the flu mutates and a pandemic 
hits so be it.  Its nature's way of kicking us around for a change.  I have 
faith that the massive drug companies will come up with a costly way to cure 
the rich, and the rich will figure they need a few of us minions to wipe there 
arses, thus spreading a little cure around here and there.

David,
   Please illuminate me. Which statement did I make that is complete
agreement with Rush? I think you've misread me, by a mile. Rush
said the bird flu is a hoax? I had no idea that he had the balls to
take on Rumsfeld, a major beneficiary of this hoax. But if he did
then I agree with him. Mostly I think Rush is a mouthpiece for
the Repug propaganda machine  to be avoided.
Yeah, bugs mutate. So what? Unless you have the perfect match,
the vaccine is a waste. It is better by far to keep one's immune system
in perfect working order, all the time. You are letting the Fear Machine
of our leaders get to you, imo.
Peace, D. Mindock

- Original Message -
From: David Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
Sent: Thursday, May 11, 2006 9:58 AM
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] The Hidden Agenda Behind the Bird Flu Hoax


 D. Mindock wrote:

 You know, I'm just flat amazed to find Mr Mindock, whom I regarded as
 about as liberal as they come, in complete agreement with Rush Limbaugh
 and the rest of the conservative radio gang on anything.  And here it
 is, in black and white.

 FWIW, which isn't much, I don't think bugs care at all about
 conspiracies, politics, or big drug companies.  I think bugs mutate.
 Whether bird flu eventually mutates into something that can be passed
 from person to person because of agribusiness, free range birds, or pigs
 being fed infected chickens doesn't really matter once it starts to
 spread.

 --- David

  This seems to be inline with the idea of a police state. Collect all
 the info on citizens possible to be stored in
 a huge database. The cuckoo bird flu scare (a hoax) is to get us to
 accept
 that anyone can be detained for silly reasons along with the database
 of your airline flights. When
 they say the data is to be maintained for at least two months, you can
 believe it will be much longer than that. Just like
 your online traffic through your ISP, all of it, is to be maintained
 for at least a year thanks to a proposal by US Congresswoman DeGette
 (D-CO). Yes, she calls herself a Democrat. We need to write our
 Congress reps that this BS won't fly with us. It is wrong that the NSA
 and the Pentagon are spying on us.  BushCo is a fear based, secretive,
 devisive, newspeak government that is totally controlled by corporate
 powers. I think this is the definition of a fascist regime. No wonder
 the world is becoming terrified of our goverment. Bush and Dead-Eye
 Dick appear to be out-of-control.
 Work for Peace, D. Mindock


   The Hidden Agenda Behind the Bird Flu Hoax



 Bird FluA plan to quarantine sick airline and ship passengers in order
 to combat a potential bird flu outbreak has outraged health experts,
 airlines, and civil libertarians.

 *Three-Day Quarantine*

 Sick passengers would be identified by flight attendants, pilots and
 cruise ship crews. Passengers identified as sick could be detained in
 quarantine for as long as three days.

 *Detailed Information*

 The proposed rules would also require airlines to collect detailed
 contact information from their passengers, including the names of any
 traveling companions and precise information regarding travel plans.
 The information would be stored for at least two months, and would be
 provided to the Centers for Disease Control (CDC) at any time the
 government asked for it.

 USA Today
 http://www.usatoday.com/news/health/2006-04-24-flu-quarantine_x.htm
 April 25, 2006

 

 Dr. Mercola's Comment:

 If this news concerns you, believe me, you're not alone. Many health
 experts, as well as airline personnel and the American Civil Liberties
 Union (ACLU), feel the same way about the various provisions of this
 plan.

 The ACLU argues that the plan basically gives the government a free
 pass to detain whomever it wants to. The airline industry is balking
 at the $100-million-plus cost of creating and maintaining the huge
 passenger information database required.

 Georgina Graham, head of global security for the International Air
 Transport Association, also pointed out that it's ludicrous to give
 the job of identifying sick people to flight crews who have no medical
 training.

 It's starting to look like there's a 

Re: [Biofuel] The Hidden Agenda Behind the Bird Flu Hoax

[DHAJOGLO]

Jason and or Katie

Perhaps isolationist is not exactaly correct... let me clarify.

On Thursday, May 11, 2006  7:22 PM, Jason  Katie wrote:


if the US is so isolationist, why do we keep getting our nose broken for
sticking it in other people's business?


My view is that our general population has retreated into an egotistical 
nationalism (nothing new really).  And as a result we conviently ignore the 
rest of the world.  We've writen off the UN, we want to build walls around 
ourselves to keep others out and we don't really pay attention to the rest of 
the world unless resources are on the line.

Its correct that we are sticking out noses here and there.  I posit that 1% is 
making the decisions and 99% wants to close the border and turn off the light 
so the neighbors think we're gone.  Isolationist may not be exact but big walls 
and ignoring treaties and international authorities is very close wouldn't you 
say.

and then there is the fact that in no way can we stop or contain something
we cannot even adequately define, because there is a good chance it was
designed to be undefinable, i mean, think about it- there was a logbook
style title for the bird flu almost before it was discovered (H5N1). tell
me that wasnt a little bit fast? while it may or may not be part of some
huge nasty corporate black book conspiracy that you can never believe until
it has been officially denied, it just doesnt look good for the large
factory farms. the problem is, they will blame the little guys for raising
tainted birds until they are regulated out of existence, and then the fact
that factory farming is the biggest cause of the bird flu will just all of a
sudden pop up in the mainstream, and the poultry industry will roll over and
die, taking a big chunk of the present food supply with it.

hoax or no, its still gonna get ugly.

Agreed.  My point is that that 1% above knows this and will never admit that we 
can't handle the uglyness and thus the pundit machine is given carte blanche to 
run away with the conspiracies.

Forgive my spelling as I was typing this from a console with limited spell 
checking features.

-dave



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Re: [Biofuel] The Hidden Agenda Behind the Bird Flu Hoax

[DHAJOGLO]

Keith,


I'm not flat amazed any more to see Americans explaining things away
in terms of political polarisations and somehow mislaying the problem
in the doing.

One thing you're mislaying David is quite a lot of serious stuff
that's been posted here about the why's and wherefore's of the bird
flu epidemic.

I think the lack of reaction or the poor reaction lies in our (the USA) lack of 
education (all of those kids left behind!) and our isolationist views.  
Firstly, the SARS ordeal made people think that either 1) quarantine works just 
fine or 2) things like pandemics are not really that bad.  Both of which are of 
course not true.  I hear things like, Its China's problem, not ours.  And 
then there's this notion that we are the US, we can handle anything.  Most 
people in the US don't realize that regular influenza kills around 36,000 
people a year (http://www.cdc.gov/flu/keyfacts.htm).  Plus, even if H5N1 was 
the same severity as regular flu we would not have the facilities to handle the 
sheer volume; no one would.  I'm quite sure the government doesn't want to 
admit that and so the situation mishandled from the top down.

I was just at a multi-agency volunteer training for my county.  The department 
of homeland security health advocate got up and told us quite plainly, if 
there is a public health crisis don't worry.  You and your families will be 
taken care of first.  You know, most of the people were actually calmed by 
that vague and generic assurance.  So, the misinformation is coming from on 
high probably to hide the truth about our inability to handle any sort of 
health crisis.  And, since most of our citizens don't even know what a pandemic 
is or that quarantining airplanes will not stop a true pandemic, the news is 
littered with false truths and flat out lies (or are those the same thing?) 
which comprises the breeding grounds of the pundits and politicians



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Re: [Biofuel] From a Congresswoman, Diana DeGette (D-CO)

[DHAJOGLO]

My bad... I figured it was a state level thing.  That's even more odd.  I would 
gather that they are presuming the patriot act will eventually be taken out and 
are trying to put bits and pieces of it here and there.


On Tuesday, May 02, 2006  4:25 PM, Zeke Yewdall wrote:

This isn't at a state level.  Diana DeGette is a US rep, not a state
rep, unless I'm all confused about who the bozos here in Colorado have
elected.  If you think the democrats from Colorado are bad, try to
republicans -- Wayne Allard, Tom Tancredo, and Marilyn Musgrave, to
name a few


On 5/2/06, DHAJOGLO [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 I was under the impression that the patriot act already pretty much covered 
 this type of records mandating.  I wonder what they gain by inacting it at 
 a state level.



 On Tuesday, May 02, 2006 12:26 PM, D. Mindock wrote:
 
 Date: Tue, 2 May 2006 12:26:59 -0500
 From: D. Mindock
 To: Undisclosed-Recipient:;
 Subject: [Biofuel] From a Congresswoman, Diana DeGette (D-CO)
 
 When plunder becomes a way of life for a group of men living in society,
 they create for themselves, in the course of time, a legal system that
 authorizes it and a moral code that glorifies it.
 Frederic Bastiat, The Law (1850)
 
  =
 
 It is getting difficult to distinguish a Democrat from a neo-con Repug these
 days. The attack on
 our Internet usage and privacy continues...  Peace, D. Mindock
 
 ---
 
 Original is at:
 http://energycommerce.house.gov/108/Markups/04262006/degette_001_XML.PDF
 
 AMENDMENT TO THE COMMITTEE PRINT
 OFFERED BY MS. DEGETTE OF COLORADO
 
 Records retention by ISPs
 
 At the end of the bill add the following new title:
 1 TITLE VI$BM3(BECORDS RETENTION
 2 SEC. 601. RECORD RETENTION REGULATIONS REQUIRED.
 3 Title VII of the Communications Act of 1934 (47
 4 U.S.C. 601 et seq.) is further amended by adding after
 5 section 718 (as added by section 501 of this Act) the
 l6 following new section:
 7 $BAq(BSEC. 719. RECORD RETENTION BY PROVIDERS OF INTER8
 NET ACCESS SERVICE.
 9 $BAq(B(a) REGULATIONS REQUIRED.$BM8(Bithin 90 days
 10 after the date of enactment of this section, the Commission
 11 shall prescribe regulations requiring each provider of
 12 Internet access services to retain records to permit the
 13 identification of subscribers to such services for appro-
 14 priate law enforcement purposes. Such records shall, in
 15 accordance with such regulations, be retained for not less
 16 than one year after a subscriber ceases to subscribe to
 17 such services.
 
 18 $BAq(B(b) DEFINITION.$BM'(Bor purposes of this section:
 
 F:\SAC\109TEL\CABLE\DEGETTE_001.XML
 F:\V9\042506\042506.106
 April 25, 2006 (11:47 AM)
 

 

 2
 
 H.L.C.
 
 1 $BAq(B(1) INTERNET.$BM5(Bhe term $BA*(Bnternet' means
 2 the combination of computer facilities and electro
 3 magnetic transmission media, and related equipment
 4 and software, comprising the interconnected world
 5 wide network of computer networks that employ the
 6 Transmission Control Protocol/Internet Protocol or
 7 any successor protocol to transmit information.
 8 $BAq(B(2) INTERNET ACCESS SERVICE.$BM5(Bhe term
 9 $BA*(Bnternet access service' means a service that enables
 10 users to access content, information, electronic mail,
 11 or other services offered over the Internet, and may
 12 also include access to proprietary content, informa-
 13 tion, and other services as part of a package of serv-
 14 ices offered to consumers. Such term does not in-
 15 clude telecommunications services.''.
 
 F:\SAC\109TEL\CABLE\DEGETTE_001.XML
 F:\V9\042506\042506.106
 April 25, 2006 (11:47 AM)
 


 
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Re: [Biofuel] From a Congresswoman, Diana DeGette (D-CO)

[DHAJOGLO]

I was under the impression that the patriot act already pretty much covered 
this type of records mandating.  I wonder what they gain by inacting it at a 
state level.  



On Tuesday, May 02, 2006 12:26 PM, D. Mindock wrote:

Date: Tue, 2 May 2006 12:26:59 -0500
From: D. Mindock
To: Undisclosed-Recipient:;
Subject: [Biofuel] From a Congresswoman, Diana DeGette (D-CO)

When plunder becomes a way of life for a group of men living in society, 
they create for themselves, in the course of time, a legal system that 
authorizes it and a moral code that glorifies it.
Frederic Bastiat, The Law (1850)

 =

It is getting difficult to distinguish a Democrat from a neo-con Repug these 
days. The attack on
our Internet usage and privacy continues...  Peace, D. Mindock

---

Original is at: 
http://energycommerce.house.gov/108/Markups/04262006/degette_001_XML.PDF

AMENDMENT TO THE COMMITTEE PRINT
OFFERED BY MS. DEGETTE OF COLORADO

Records retention by ISPs

At the end of the bill add the following new title:
1 TITLE VI—RECORDS RETENTION
2 SEC. 601. RECORD RETENTION REGULATIONS REQUIRED.
3 Title VII of the Communications Act of 1934 (47
4 U.S.C. 601 et seq.) is further amended by adding after
5 section 718 (as added by section 501 of this Act) the
l6 following new section:
7 ‘‘SEC. 719. RECORD RETENTION BY PROVIDERS OF INTER8
NET ACCESS SERVICE.
9 ‘‘(a) REGULATIONS REQUIRED.—Within 90 days
10 after the date of enactment of this section, the Commission
11 shall prescribe regulations requiring each provider of
12 Internet access services to retain records to permit the
13 identification of subscribers to such services for appro-
14 priate law enforcement purposes. Such records shall, in
15 accordance with such regulations, be retained for not less
16 than one year after a subscriber ceases to subscribe to
17 such services.

18 ‘‘(b) DEFINITION.—For purposes of this section:

F:\SAC\109TEL\CABLE\DEGETTE_001.XML
F:\V9\042506\042506.106
April 25, 2006 (11:47 AM)




2

H.L.C.

1 ‘‘(1) INTERNET.—The term ‘Internet' means
2 the combination of computer facilities and electro
3 magnetic transmission media, and related equipment
4 and software, comprising the interconnected world
5 wide network of computer networks that employ the
6 Transmission Control Protocol/Internet Protocol or
7 any successor protocol to transmit information.
8 ‘‘(2) INTERNET ACCESS SERVICE.—The term
9 ‘Internet access service' means a service that enables
10 users to access content, information, electronic mail,
11 or other services offered over the Internet, and may
12 also include access to proprietary content, informa-
13 tion, and other services as part of a package of serv-
14 ices offered to consumers. Such term does not in-
15 clude telecommunications services.''.

F:\SAC\109TEL\CABLE\DEGETTE_001.XML
F:\V9\042506\042506.106
April 25, 2006 (11:47 AM)


 

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Re: [Biofuel] The End of Dollar Hegemony

[DHAJOGLO]

I liked this essay (well, actually it depressed me).  The end made me think of 
something, ...gold or its equivalent. Isn't oil the equivalent currency?  I 
mean, we price it in euros or dollars but in fact, it is so central to the 
world economy that pricing it in gold does not change the dynamic.  I would 
postulate that oil is the world currency and will continue to be so until its 
sufficiently depleted.  Just a thought :)

---

We will know that day is
approaching when oil-producing countries demand gold, or its
equivalent, for their oil rather than dollars or Euros. The sooner
the better.




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Re: [Biofuel] Oilman Plays Ozone Man

[DHAJOGLO]

Can you send along the url source for this?

Regards,
-dave


Posted by: [EMAIL PROTECTED]


February 4, 2006
Op-Ed Columnist
Oilman Plays Ozone Man
By MAUREEN DOWD
WASHINGTON

The Saudi ambassador summoned me to the embassy on
Thursday, across the street from the Watergate.

He wanted to know if Americans were still addicted to oil.

I assured him we were.

...



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Re: [Biofuel] Power Compost!

[DHAJOGLO]

Robert,

I'm not sure what type of engine you have, but an option might be to modify it 
to use ethanol and then delay the timing to get higher compression.  That may 
result in a more efficient system.  You would have to have a supply of ethanol 
though and you may not be able to delay the timing if its a magneto style 
engine (can one delay timing on a magneto?)


A friend of mine recently donated a shredder for my use.  After
rebuilding its carburetor (hateful things, carburetors!) and
re-lapping stuck valves, changing gaskets and cleaning GUNK out of the
fuel tank, it's running fairly well again.  (It still needs a
replacement throttle return spring, but I'm trying to solve one
problem at a time . . .)


You could buy the horse and feed it the cornstalks and compute your milage 
based on that!


Of course, the same thing could be said of rototilling.  I'm certainly
not going to invest in one of those tiny horses I've seen around here
to do that job for me.



robert luis rabello




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Re: [Biofuel] Oil shale

[DHAJOGLO]

On Wednesday, September 14, 2005  4:40 PM, Ray J wrote:
You must not have read the article

***sigh*** I did read the article.  I guess my phrasing just wasn't good enough 
so I'll rephrase:

If you drill into the ground and remove a finite amount of matter in a finite 
volume, you are left with mass of earth that is less dense than before.  
Furthermore, the earth is left full of shaft holes (not one or two holes per 
acre, but hundreds of holes per acre).  This leaves the ground much more 
accessible to water and has the potential to unlock vast quantities of 
materials (such as oxides of heavy metals) to leach out of the previously dense 
earth and into the water table.  Now, imagine a company drilling untold amounts 
of holes in, ”more than a thousand square miles - the largest fossil fuel 
deposits in the world” and think what sort of environmental impact this will 
have.

Even if you don't dig up the shale, the process alone converts standing earth 
into mining waste via heat treatment.  This amount of heat will kill any living 
orginasims and bacteria, and can chemically change the rock composition.  Its 
been changed from a native geologic formation to a by-product of mining even 
though it was never physically removed.   This doesn't even begin to address 
the impact the surface will take for the operation.

To underscore my familiarity with the situation, I have been on air drilling 
operations in eastern Utah and western Colorado.  My grandfather and father 
worked in the oil drilling industry while I was growing up.  Drilling sites are 
not clean and they leave an indelible mark on the land through the direct and 
indirect effects of drilling.  I personally don't think this technology will be 
viable.  It will be interesting to see how much energy will be expended in 
creating ice barriers and how easily it can be accomplished on very non-flat 
terrain.

What's not clear is weather they will be freezing just four sides or five sides 
(the bottom).

Here are some more articles on the topic:
http://www.futurepundit.com/archives/002981.html
http://www.wilderness.org/Library/Documents/upload/Testimony-Smith-OilShaleDevelopment-20050412.pdf


they drill a shaft  freeze the ground in a big sphere way out
around the shaft.. then boil the oil out of the rock and suck it out of
the hole they are not planning to dig out the shale


DHAJOGLO wrote:

I haven't posted in a while and I just got around to looking at this.  I grew 
up in Grand Junction, Colorado.  This is situated right in the heart of oil 
shale country.  There is even a local story (local to Parachute, Colorado) 
about an early settler that built his fireplace out of oil shale and shortly 
thereafter rebuilt his whole house.  But I digress.

No matter what any company says about getting to the oil shale, it is very, 
very important to understand that, even if this process works they would be 
leaving behind vast amounts of mining/drilling waste.  Rather than dig up the 
rocks, Boil off the oil and then dump the mining waste they simply leave it 
in the ground.  I can't imagine what untold pollution this would cause but I 
would imagine the Green river and in turn the Colorado river would become 
extremely polluted.  Not to mention the land which, despite their best 
efforts, would still contain loose chemicals.  *note* the article never 
addressed what they would do with the, gunk they stripped out.

Its a dicey proposition that I'm sure will become more and more debated as 
the US loses its grip on the world oil supply.





http://www.rockymountainnews.com/drmn/news_columnists/article/0,1299,DRMN_86_4051709,00.html




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Re: [Biofuel] Oil shale

[DHAJOGLO]

I haven't posted in a while and I just got around to looking at this.  I grew 
up in Grand Junction, Colorado.  This is situated right in the heart of oil 
shale country.  There is even a local story (local to Parachute, Colorado) 
about an early settler that built his fireplace out of oil shale and shortly 
thereafter rebuilt his whole house.  But I digress.

No matter what any company says about getting to the oil shale, it is very, 
very important to understand that, even if this process works they would be 
leaving behind vast amounts of mining/drilling waste.  Rather than dig up the 
rocks, Boil off the oil and then dump the mining waste they simply leave it 
in the ground.  I can't imagine what untold pollution this would cause but I 
would imagine the Green river and in turn the Colorado river would become 
extremely polluted.  Not to mention the land which, despite their best efforts, 
would still contain loose chemicals.  *note* the article never addressed what 
they would do with the, gunk they stripped out.

Its a dicey proposition that I'm sure will become more and more debated as the 
US loses its grip on the world oil supply.

While we were trying to do the math, O'Connor told us the answers.
Upwards of a million barrels an acre, a billion barrels a square mile.
And the oil shale formation in the Green River Basin, most of which is
in Colorado, covers more than a thousand square miles - the largest
fossil fuel deposits in the world.



http://www.rockymountainnews.com/drmn/news_columnists/article/0,1299,DRMN_86_4051709,00.html




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re: [Biofuel] Windmills and appropriate technologies

[DHAJOGLO]

Mike,

Whenever we talk about biofuels, we sometimes bring other alternative energy 
technologies into the fold. For example, I remember discussing (maybe here, 
I'm not sure) the use of heliostats as a possible heat source for 
distillation. However, the use of windmills as a source of mechanical or 
electrical energy has (for me) stayed in the background. I am not 
knowledgeable at all in the commercial availability of windmills and the level 
of sophistication of the ones most commonly sold. Can anyone help me on this?


These sites may be of use for *other* sources of power 
http://www.otherpower.com/ http://www.scoraigwind.com/
I would love to make a permanent magnet alternator for use with either water or 
wind... but that's some time down the road for me.


I'm also curious about something. I've been visiting JTF and reading the 
sections on appropriate technology. Do you think that alternative, renewable 
energy for the creation of biofuels merits a discussion as a kind of 
appropriate technology? Does the level of complexity of these technologies 
(like windmills, solar, etc.) cause the idea to diverge from the original 
definition if they incorporate modern electronics (for example)?


I think the main issue is the source of production.  Most things fabricated 
today use polymers that are derived from fossil fuels (plastics usually).  So, 
devices used to tap into wind or hydro power rely on the petroleum industry.  I 
have heard of research into polymers from renewable products but I'm not sure 
how far along such research.  Perhaps someone else on the list knows more about 
such things.  Once we can get polymers out of corn we will be able to further 
detach ourselves from fossil fuels.


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re: [Biofuel] Old chickens

[DHAJOGLO]

When laying hens wane in production they are routinely slaughtered and
replaced. In a successful experiment on the island Gotland -Sweden the dead
chickens have been ground up together with sawdust and a little pine tree
oil (to dampen the smell) and then mixed with the usual fuel of wood chips
and bark in the local energy plant - Visby Energi AB. Leif Pettersen MD says
that the result was so good that they would be prepared to pay for the
chickens just as they do for chippings and bark.

They should call it Soylent Hen.. or perhaps Foulent Green.


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re: [Biofuel] Article from deseretnews.com

[DHAJOGLO]

NOTE FROM SENDER: This news is somewhat troublesome ... we'll have to see how 
far the government goes with this, but it's scary (VERY scary) to think that 
instead of using the current oil situation to start moving beyond dependence 
on fossil fuels and developing renewables, the government is hungrily looking 
for more oil reserves 

tam

VAST 'OIL' RESERVES IN UTAH MAY TEMPT FEDS TO HELP OUT
Utah, Colorado and Wyoming sit on a massive fortune in untapped oil -- maybe 
more oil than in the Middle East -- if they could just figure out a way to 
harvest it.
FULL STORY: http://deseretnews.com/dn/view/1%2C1249%2C600125803%2C00.html

Just a little insight into this area.  I was born and raised in Grand Junction. 
 I remember after the oil shocks of the 70s this area was a boom for Oil Shale 
research and potential extraction. However, when the oil prices dropped back 
down interest fell and the oil companies fled leaving the region in a very 
depressed state.  I think the extraction process comes out with a very little 
net gain if not a net loss of energy.

The shale deposits are held up in mountains.  In order to extract the oil they 
would basically have to dig up the mountains to process the shale leaving a 
destroyed landscape, devastating the habitat, and creating mining waste that 
would all but kill western Colorado and eastern Utah.

Also, I can recall that the oil companies have a fair estimate of how much oil 
is actually trapped and it is truly a staggering amount.  Looking at this 
article they are obviously holding back the amount of information they really 
have.  

-dave


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re: [Biofuel] Iraq Invasion - Age of Oil Scarcity

[DHAJOGLO]

 Iraq Invasion May Be Remembered as
 Start of the Age of Oil Scarcity
 By Robert Collier
 San Francisco Chronicle
 Sunday 20 March 2005
 http://www.truthout.org/issues_05/032105EA.shtml

 Production tumbles in post-Hussein era as
 more countries vie for shrinking supplies
...
 If it weren't for the insurgency, Iraq would produce
 at least another million barrels day -- and maybe two,
 said Gal Luft, co-director of the
 Institute for the Analysis of Global Security in Washington.
 Iraq is very much missing from the market, and
 it's one of the reasons why prices have risen so much.


I love it how people like Gal Luft can quickly ignore the cause-effect 
relationship... If it wasn't for the US invasion the insurgency wouldn't exist.

...
 Fast-rising energy prices helped the Bush administration
 rally votes in Congress for its proposal to open the
 Arctic National Wildlife Refuge to oil and gas drilling.
 That proposal squeezed out a victory by a two-vote margin
 in the Senate last week.

But then again, if it wasn't for the invasion that cuased the insurgency that 
caused the oil shortarge then the ANWR may have remained protected.


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re: [Biofuel] The Energy Crunch To Come

[DHAJOGLO]

http://www.motherjones.com/news/dailymojo/2005/03/energy_crunch.html

March 22, 2005

The Energy Crunch To Come

By Michael T. Klare

Data released annually at this time by the major oil companies on
their prior-year performances rarely generates much interest outside
the business world. With oil prices at an all-time high and Big Oil
reporting record profits, however, this year has been exceptional.
Many media outlets covered the announcement of mammoth profits
garnered by ExxonMobil, the nation's wealthiest public corporation,
and other large firms. Exxon's fourth-quarter earnings, at $8.42
billion, represented the highest quarterly income ever reported by an
American firm.



Am I missing something?  If prices for a raw input go up then the sale price 
also goes up.  However, provided the prices go up at near the same rate of the 
inputs then profits should also remain basically stable.  However, the oil 
companies are pulling out profits left and right.  Therefore, if they are 
profiting then the retial price of fuel is artifically high and not high mearly 
because of crude prices.

I know its not this simple and that the theories of supply and demand weigh in, 
but why are people (ie. the masses) not questioning what appears to be 
collusion?


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re: [Biofuel] glycerin blocks

[DHAJOGLO]

Jeremy,

Can you make glycerin blocks from non gelling glycerin?
I have about 20 gallons of liquid glycerin and about 5 Gal. that gelled.

Jeremy

Pure glycerol will melt somewhere around 20C I believe.  However, if you have 
any impurites (espically Methanol) then it will stay in a liquid state at a 
lower temp.  Is your glyc. kept air tight?  Does it (presuming you acquired it 
from transesterification) still have the [K|Na]OH still in it?

Regards,
-Dave


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[Biofuel] Minnesota News Regarding Foul Minning Practices

[DHAJOGLO]

Below is a brief description of a letter sent to the Governor of Minneosta, USA 
regarding a proposed Coal Gasification Plant.  The letter is around 20 pages, 
so rather than hitting the list directly I though I would put it on a website 
for those interested in reading it.

http://csdept.smumn.edu/dhajoglou/governor_pawlenty_letter.pdf


Description (very brief):

Miles W. Lord, a Minnesota resident and legal professional, wrote a letter to 
the current Governor of Minnesota, Tim Pawlenty, regarding the mining practices 
of Minnesota.  This letter is in response to a proposed Coal Gasificaion 
facility that will be used by mining and steel companies for the purpose of 
mining Minnesota's iron ore.  This plant is being developed with millions of 
public resources and the controling mystery company (as the author puts it) 
has been given governmental like authority to operate.  On page 6 of the 
electronic document you'll note that Excelsior Energy (the alleged owner) was 
given 10 million dollars from a renewable energy fund.  The author goes on to 
point out how the mining and steel industry has gone the distance to build up a 
fortress of protection from environmental, health, and tax liability.  Its a 
sad indicator of an industry thieving its way to profits with blatant and 
criminal disregard for human life and the environment.


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re: [Biofuel] I need some information

[DHAJOGLO]

Ezio,
The fermentation process gives off mostly CO2 and also some ethanol vapors. 
 Large scale productions run the CO2 through a condenser to remove the spare 
ethanol and some water. Then they make dry ice from the remaining CO2.


On Tuesday, March 01, 2005  9:38 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

Date: Tue,  1 Mar 2005 16:38:36 +0100
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: biofuel [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: [Biofuel] I need some information

About the production of ethanol. The principal plant work in fermetation 
system. My question is: the gas emission after the fermetation is possible 
that you only carbon dioxide?

Thank you very much.

Ezio




6X velocizzare la tua navigazione a 56k? 6X Web Accelerator di Libero!
Scaricalo su INTERNET GRATIS 6X http://www.libero.it


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re: [Biofuel] Ethanol Crossroads: Decision at Chambersburg

[DHAJOGLO]

On Tuesday, March 01, 2005 11:05 AM, Keith Addison wrote:
Commentary:

Ethanol Crossroads: Decision at Chambersburg

...

Of course, the ethanolers aren't mentioning the downsides of the
project - such as toxic emissions, odors, huge water treatment and
waste disposal issues, rail and traffic congestion, declining
property values, volatility of chemical compounds and dangerous
storage --- and the larger questions pertaining to the viability of
the entire corn-based ethanol industry.

This is interesting.  I'm not sure of what consitutes toxic, but the CO2 output 
is no more toxic than what a brewery will put out.  Note* yes, I know that beer 
brewers put their CO2 back in, but things like wine and hard liquor don't.  
Further, the ethanol plant I have visited used no volatile compounds and the 
storage is no more dangerous than their local corner gas station.


The fact that ethanol is highly concentrated --- with one company,
ADM, dominating the financing, production, transport and marketing of
the product--as well as associations and magazines purportedly
speaking for the industry --- also goes under the radar.

As we all probably know, highly concentrated ethanol is no more dangerous than 
straight unleaded gas. Plus, that sentence (yes, one big sentence) is poorly 
written.

...

I would gather that it is important to see exactaly what the impacts of the 
waste water will be.  Plus, the backers do need to be forth comming in who they 
are and what their plan is.  But the making ethanol out to be this highly-toxic 
enterprise seems a bit over blown.

Regards,
-dave


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Re: [Biofuel] need a catchy title

[DHAJOGLO]

How about fry or yyy join us if you don't want to die. sort of
thing.

JD2005
While it is catchy I would have to say I'm not big on the fear of death 
motivation!  This reminds me of a poster we have here at the university.  Its 
about sun burning and it say, Fry now, Pay later in reference to skin cancer!

Thanks!
-dave


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Re: [Biofuel] Attn. Pack Rats -- (maybe) A cheap Process Control Idea

[DHAJOGLO]

Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Attn. Pack Rats -- (maybe) A cheap Process Control Idea

Hi everyone,
...
I was thinking of developing generic software (in C or assembler) for old 
computers to convert them into process controllers. For example, it might make 
an effective temperature controller for your still. If this works, I would 
take the programs and put them on a web page for download. If it's truly 
generic (compatible with all XX86 architecture), it will be a matter of 
copying the executable file to the hard drive of a computer, adding a line to 
the autoexec.bat file and making a harness (serial/parallel port to solid 
state relays and sensors).

Mike,
I think you have a great idea.  I do know that your choice of OS will be 
important.  Between linux and microsoft there are a host of small, compact OSes 
that can be customized for specific support.  I say this because depending on 
the level of control you are looking for (just turning off a mixer after a time 
limit or actually opening valves and running pumps) may be difficult to attain 
with a generic OS.

However, I would look into the following areas for inspiration

http://www.automatedaquariums.com/
http://www.brewtechlabs.com/prod01_falcon.htm
http://www.employees.org/~joestone/Sbs/
http://www.controlanything.com/

When I started beer brewing I ran across some of this information.  I don't 
brew enough beer to use any of this but its worth looking into.

Let us know how you are progressing.  I may be able to provide some help though 
I have never tried anything of this nature.


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[Biofuel] need a catchy title

[DHAJOGLO]

To list,
  On friday I have been asked to talk about my biodiesel project.  I need a 
good title.  I was thinking of calling it:

Why does that bus smell like french fries? A look at diesel fuel from 
vegitable oil.


any (quick) thoughts?


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Re: [Biofuel] Soap aerated concrete

[DHAJOGLO]

Martin,

I wouldn't mind using RHA for such a thing, but I don't think I'm within
1000 miles of a rice field.


--
Martin K

Are you anywhere near Minnesota?  We have quite the rice industry here.  After 
all these posts I though I might look into it this summer.


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Re: Re[4]: [Biofuel] Our Godless Constitution - [OT] = very yes

[DHAJOGLO]

Todd et. al...  Danger, high sacharsim content:

And as a noun?

homey - noun - 1) _;
2);
3

Apples to apples please.


According to your usage of the word Homey, and presuming we follow the rules of 
English grammar, as opposed to the rules of chess or synchronized swiming, the 
definitions would be as follows:

Homey - Proper Noun - 1) Marge Simpson's pet name for Homer Simpson.
2) Any other given name of an individual
 - pronoun - 3) A synonym for he, she, or it.

I think the point is that we are always changing the definitions of words to 
fit a style (or the lack of it), an agenda, or lyrics to songs writen by Snoop 
Dog, the esteemed rap artist.

However, I would intrepret Homey as you refering to yourself in a jovial manner 
(ding ding ding... he gets a prize).  And while its grammitaclly incorrect 
perhaps it fits your style.  Perhaps Allen was using religion to fit an agenda. 
 Perhaps, That jive turkey de prez is all up in our bidness 'bout his peps 'n 
dier problem wif de crack rock!

Piece out Homey!


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RE: Re[2]: [Biofuel] Our Godless Constitution

[DHAJOGLO]

Chris,

On Friday, February 18, 2005  6:28 AM, Chris Lloyd wrote:
 So, based on these sources, a christian is one who believes in christ.


From: Chris Lloyd

One is technically not a christian if they don't believe in jesus.
Thats not ment to be offensive, just a definition. 

To be technically correct a Christian is one who believes Christ was the
son of God. Muslims believe in Christ but only as a Christian prophet.

Chris,

I believe that jesus christ existed.  But I don't believe in the miracle of 
resurrection or that he was the son of god (or even that he was a profit).  
Therefore, I'm not a christian just as muslims are not christians.  I think its 
presumed that to say that if one believes in jesus one generally believes in 
the teachings of the new testament.  But, I'm not clear on what you are saying. 
 So, the question to you is, do muslims believe jesus was the son of god? (I'm 
guessing no... just a profit... but I have no idea).


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Re: Re[2]: [Biofuel] Our Godless Constitution

[DHAJOGLO]

Hi Gustl,
...
Thirteen signers of the constitution were Freemasons. In order to be a member 
of the fraternity, you need to declare your faith in God. You do not have to 
subscribe to a particular religion. But, you must be monotheistic.

http://www.freemasonry.org/psoc/masonicmyths.htm

Mike

Lets look at what the first article (Allen's article) stated:

First, it implied that the founders were NOT religious (hook).
Then, it pointed out that the bulk of them believed in god but didn't 
necessarily endorse christ to the extent that say, Pat Roberston does.  Then, 
it detailed information regarding founders such as Franklyn and Paine.

I think the author was trying, in earnest, to separate the concept of 
christianity from the documents used to define the creation of a sovereign 
nation.  To presume god and jesus are the same is a christian belief.  I think 
its difficult for many christians to comprehend that others don't hold this 
belief; just as its difficult for many to comprehend that god and Ala are also 
not the same.

So it stands to reason that Bush claims to be a christian (albiet a 
hypocritical one) and as such he is giving his opinion that the cretion of 
the USA was based on christianity because he believes any mention of god is 
also a mention of jesus christ.

And its my belief, like many, that Bush is trying to push his set of beliefs 
into the government in order to fit the agenda of his followers (not the least 
of which think they too can talk to god).  Well, I can talk to god and I'm 
giving him an ear full of what I think of this nonsense.  I'll report back as 
soon as I get a reply.

regards,
dave



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Re: Re[2]: [Biofuel] Our Godless Constitution

[DHAJOGLO]

Mike  Gustl

I politely take exception to a couple of comments: I think its difficult for 
many Christians to comprehend that others don't hold this belief; just as its 
difficult for many to comprehend that god and Ala are also not the same.

My first response to this was that you are referring to many Christians as 
ignorant without any way to justify the argument. I think that this is a bit 
presumptuous -- especially since many of the Christians I knew from church as 
a boy (Mom was into taking us to church sometimes) questioned the role of 
Jesus in the bible and had no faith whatsoever in the trinity. 

Mike first:  Its hard to prove such statements.  But its not an ignorant point 
of view... its based on perspective.  I can say, with 100% accuracy that all of 
the christians I know personally believe that god and jesus are 3 entities 
(sorry, just had to do it ;).  Check my email address if you think my exposure 
is limited.  Further, it's a christian tenant that jesus and god are/were the 
same.  My statement is to be taken at face value.  I take the definition of 
christian to be one who believes in christ.  The 2 links below sums it up well 
in talking about god and jesus.  So, based on these sources, a christian is one 
who believes in christ.  One is technically not a christian if they don't 
believe in jesus.  Thats not ment to be offensive, just a definition. 

http://christianity.com/partner/Article_Display_Page/0,,PTID1000|CHID74|CIID1537642,00.html

Christianity came to regard Jesus as in some sense God's presence in human 
form. This was unacceptable to most Jews. 
(http://geneva.rutgers.edu/src/christianity/major.html)

Typically my proof is in a simple question, What if jesus isn't lord.  If 
they answer something like, But he is lord, the bible says so then I know 
that this person does not have the ability to even consider that a reference to 
god isn't also a reference to jesus.  Try it out on people you don't know and 
see if you get a better than 50% hit rate (provided they claim to be 
christian).  If not I'll amend my claim to some christians (though, Pat 
Robertson and his followers are definitly on the list).

Gustl,
   After re-reading the text I do see that Allen did indeed say they wern't 
religious.  Though, I take it as a contridiction in her writing in that she (as 
we know know) says they are deists.  I missed it, but she makes the claim that 
if your not christian your not religious... and I know a few jewish people who 
are very religious and definitly not christian.  But her point still stands in 
that the documents and rhetoric for the founding of my country is not based on 
the teachings of jesus christ and the new testament.  And we are all in 
agreement that Bush himself doesn't run the country as if its based on 
christiantiy (espically when you look at Bush's love of war and the death 
penalty and Matthew 5:38-48)

-dave


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Re: [Biofuel] Our Godless Constitution

[DHAJOGLO]

http://www.americanvision.org/articlearchive/02-09-05.asp

Did George Bush Lie About America Being Founded on Christian Principles?
By Gary DeMar


Its interesting to note that this article makes the very foolish leap from god 
to jesus.  God is referenced several times but jesus is only refernced 3 times 
and the author claims that the words lord and god really mean jesus.

Further, the bulk of christian principles are also reflected in every other 
major (and minor) religon.  So, while the country was founded by primarily 
christians, and such principles were present, I read the message authors like 
DeMar are sending as, We should emulate the Bible and as such persecute those 
who don't endorse it.

Last I checked, my country (USA) was founded on principles that stood in 
defiance of just such persecutions.




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re: [Biofuel] Our Godless Constitution

[DHAJOGLO]

Knoton,

Try googling the following:

Constitution Restoration Act

which was introduced in both houses of the U.S. Congress one year ago
this month.

I found the text of this act and some things about it.  Am I right in thinking 
that they are trying to make god's law part of our constitutional law?

-dave




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Re: [Biofuel] Thank you Keith The Indian Seed Act and Patent Act:

[DHAJOGLO]

Phil and Keith,

Dear Keith - Excellent article and have not posted
awhile because of my new job.   I will read and
re-read this article.   I hope our lawmakers take time
to really study the issues. I studied Plants and Plant
Genetics and Plant Taxonomy (Dendrology) as
undergraduate. The issue of seeds and hybrid vigor was
a great discussion in the early days (1970s). Things
have changes so much since that time.


My very pesimistic outlook on legislation like this is that the legislators are 
in the pockets of industry which seeks to patent and license just about 
everything.  This is very evident in the field of computers and software.

Putting this together with GM research (not the least of which is the 
Terminator) it follows that industry seeks to control every facit of every 
industry.  Its the ultimate form of capitalism and extortion (synonyms?).

-dave




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re: [Biofuel] BioD test batches

[DHAJOGLO]

Dana,

1 ltr new safeway brand canola oil in 2 ltr PET bottle

4.9g KOH in 200ml methanol

Heated in water bath to about 140F

Shaken for about 5 mins then every 10-15 mins for the next two hours

Result:  good separation but the BD layer is milky



Test batch 2



1 ltr new safeway brand canola oil in 2 ltr PET bottle

9g KOH in 200ml methanol

Heated in water bath to about 140F

Mixed in blender for 20 mins then poured back into pet bottle to settle

Result:  same as batch 1 only faster



   I will cross reference your methoxide mix with my numbers as I have 
undertaken the same experiments comparing different processes (batch, two 
stage, acid base).  However, from my experiences, my biod is cloudy after 1 
hour of stiring but will settle out rather well over night (12+ hours).  
Furthermore, after seperation I let it settle another day (I get some more glyc 
on the bottom of the glass flask).  By this time its quite clear.



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Re: [Biofuel] Creation Care - What Would Jesus Drive

[DHAJOGLO]

The New Testament clearly proclaims that as the Second Person of the Trinity,
Christ created the universe and continues to sustain it. As such, all of
creation belongs to Him. He is Creator, Sustainer, and Owner. (Heb. 1:2-3;
Col. 1:16-17, 19; Jn. 1:1-4.)


This is what I see:

Christ created the universe and continues to sustain it.  Therefore, Christ is 
a sustanable resource.  We should be drilling for, collecting, or otherwise 
using Christ to fuel our cars.  Furthermore, if everything belongs to him then 
pollution too belongs to him (he is the owner afterall).  Therefore, anything 
we do is actually his property and as such his problem.

Sorry, but their intent is good but there methods are simply silly.

-dave


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re: [Biofuel] Gobal Warming - Ice Buffering

[DHAJOGLO]

Derek,

I don't think anyone has much of a clue as to the actual amount of heat that is 
being produced and absorbed into the ice. Once the ice is gone, we might really 
start cooking around here.

Derek


I would imagine they will get a clue when Manhattan is under 2 feet of water.  
That will probably be the only way they will get the hint!


-dave


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re: [Biofuel] World Energy and Dow Chemical Sign Biodiesel Production

[DHAJOGLO]

Ug...From a NBB email update today:
(It is my understanding, but I may be mistaken, that World Energy, who 
evidently controls around 75% of the US biodiesel market, is owned by Gulf Oil)


Its my opinion that once biofuels start to replace petrol fuels the oil 
companies will rush to secure a monopoly.  News like this indicates to me that 
they already are ramping up.



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Re: [Biofuel] Is It Time For A Corporate Death Penalty Act?

[DHAJOGLO]

 financial compensation for
all of her pain and suffering) was $100,000 exactly how likely is that
to make mcdonalds change their practices such that more don't suffer? if
that was your local coffee joint it would probably put them out of
business but mcdonalds has 4.4 billion in sales.



Plus, these corporations will shift the burden of such litigation on to either 
their customers or their employees.  To make the fines really stick they need 
be somehow taken out of the stock value.  Get the stock holders pissed off and 
the company will change (hopefully for the better).  Though I think the 
corporate death penalty is more likely to occur before a stock fine.

-dave


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re: [Biofuel] World Energy and Dow Chemical Sign Biodiesel Production

[DHAJOGLO]

Keith,

People have been saying that here for five years, and elsewhere no
doubt much longer. I'm not being sceptical, I agree with you. That
they're so slow off the mark and it's taking them so long would
rather tend to reinforce my scepticism of their much-vaunted and
largely mythical super-efficiency, and certainly of their economies
of scale. Small is more beautiful! LOL!

Lets hope that they are too blinded by their outlook on petroleum long enough 
for the co-ops and local interests to take hold.  

However, the avaliable feed stocks are not enough to fulfill our current 
consumption (talking both biodiesels and ethanol).  So, is it plausable that 
any given fuel economy of an industrialized nation can be sustained with out a 
sizable infrastructure?


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re: [Biofuel] methanol storage

[DHAJOGLO]

Does anyone know of any restrictions on storing methanol in your garage ect.

It varies from town to town and also varies by quantity.  If you want to store 
55 gal then you would want to contact the fire marshal and ask them.  Typically 
you would need a flammables storage cabinet (those big yellow ones that say 
flammable).  Proper ventilation may also be an issue espically since methanol 
vapors can be quite dangerous.  The fire marshal will know.

Regards,
Dave



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Re: [Biofuel] What the Rest of the World Watched on Inauguration Day

[DHAJOGLO]

Mike,
  I have a few questions below:

Those Americans.!.

If your are not American and anti-American, know this:

Are you suggesting that anyone who is not a Citizen of the US is also anti-USA? 
 I don't think this is what you are suggesting but it sounds like it.


There are plenty of Americans who watched the coronation -- like the 80+ 
thousand protesters (myself included) who marched in NYC on March 20th, 2004. 
Many were more interested in cheering on the demonstrators along the parade 
route than the parade itself.

Many who haven't lived here in the US, don't know how complex the culture is 
and how many are screaming foul, knowing they are not being represented in a 
duopoly we call the federal government.

Please clarify:  It sounds like you said  Many who haven't lived here are 
crying foul because they are not represented.



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re: [Biofuel] Re: 720 gpd anhydrous batch system

[DHAJOGLO]

 looking in the yards for a rectifier but they do not know flow rates they 
 olny know colunm size.
 i have the book somewhere, but could some one tell me what diamator colunm i 
 need to distill 75 to
100 gph  195 proof.   will a 12 inch work   need chart

This site may be helpful.  Under the theory section they discuss some equations 
that help for designing stills.

http://homedistiller.org/

Hope that helps.


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re: [Biofuel] GLOBAL WARMING IN TEXAS

[DHAJOGLO]

This was
before my lifetime [58].We believe in global warming and colorado is looking 
real
good to us in summers.

Man, more texans in colorado... curse the good weather there.  Just jokes.  If 
you're going, live on the west side (much prettier and more water).

-dave


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