Re: [Biofuel] The Lutec over unity device
wrote: big snip http://www.answersingenesis.org/tj/v9/i1/dating.asp?vPrint=1 Humor me for a minute, and have a read. I'd be very interested in your critique of the article. Remember, I'm interested in truth and if the article has flaws or errors or whatever I'd like to know about it. There are other articles that address the problems in the other processes cited above. first consider the source: Dr Andrew Snelling is a geologist with a B.Sc. (Hons) from The University of New South Wales and a Ph. D. from The University of Sydney, but now also works full-time with the Creation Science Foundation where he contributes to Creation Ex Nihilo magazine and edits the Creation Ex Nihilo Technical Journal. He resides in Brisbane, Australia. Second, the example you cite doesn't negate the technique, it just calls for caution in selecting a site with an appropriate geomorphology to ensure an accurate date, free from confounding variables. what the article really says is that Koongarra, Australia is not a good site for dating. I have no problem with the report other than the o so loaded publication- UPHOLDING THE AUTHORITY OF THE BIBLE FROM THE VERY FIRST VERSE -- Now tim, you have claimed that measurements are off by orders of magnitude. could you provide me with such evidence? Who has reproducibly got such variance? And I don't mean due to incompetence. I'm trying to find the actual paper (to make sure that I can read the context), but my reference includes the following: Processes of rock alteration may render a volcanic rock useless for potassium-argon dating . . We have analyzed several devitrified glasses of known age, and all have yielded ages that are too young. Some gave virtually zero ages, although the geologic evidence suggested that devitrification took place shortly after the formation of a deposit. *J.F. Evernden, et. al., K / A Dates and Cenozoic Mannalian Chronology of North America, in American Journal of Science, February 1964, p. 154. Granted, there have been a number of 'studies' done that have hand selected rock samples that exhibit discordant ages. However, so frauds have occured. they don't negate the theory. We should be able to examine the processes in use, and discuss flaws in reasoning as well as results. By the way, many of the presuppositions of these methods you've stated have primary flaws in reasoning that invalidates their results. Such as I've explained in a prior post about radioactive half life. As I recall you questioned the stability of the half-lives of radioactive isotopes? Doesn't your computer(s) keep track of time via an atomic clock? at least by reference ? Again I would like to see any any evidence as to the variance in half-lives. I'm not suggesting that radio-active half-lives have changed. What's in view is variances between the different methods used. For example, the isotope ratio at the time of the formation of the sample, or ion migrate in and out of the sample (the assumption of a closed system). vide infra radiometric dating, when performed by experienced scientists, and reviewed by peers, is the best method for determining the ages on lots of stuff, and far and away better than consulting the often transcribed oral history of a desert tribe from thousands of years ago. Look, an unobserved series of historical events happened. No transitional species have ever been found (notwithstanding several publications' attempts to present them from time to time) that has stood up to scrutiny. what? just in terms of human evolution, australopithecenes evolutionarily precede homo genera. Within Homo, are a series of species such as erectus, habilis, and on and on. And if you look at the dna the relationships are overwellminingly obvious. There is a gradual change in the dna as you move across the spectrum of life. My dna is more like a chimpanzee's than the chimpanzee's is like a gorilla's. Put another way, the dna of a sea squirt is more like mine than it is to a salmonella bacteria. One must really try hard to not see the relationships among life. So you're saying that DNA has been collected from all the skeleton fragments that were used to construct this tree of descent? I'd be interested to see that. What is the degree of sequence match between the australopithecenes skeleton and one of us? dna doesn't survive more than a few ten's of thousands of years, under the best of circumstances. Fossils don't have dna. The dna is from extant species. the closer the dna sequences, the closer the phylogenetic relationship. Since there are no DNA sequences in the fossils, then how do you make the link? Do I understand you to mean that you look at living species today that seem to have the characteristics of the fossils? I mean, at one point dinosaurs were believed to be
Re: [Biofuel] The Lutec over unity device
snip This is a fascinating idea (tapping into the energy of the ether) that seems to be producing results. The Japanese are reported to be the world leaders in this field. It is easy to see why the interest is so intense there. It's easy to see why they might be interested in alternative energy sources, since they have to import so much of their energy and have their Kyoto Protocol commitments to meet, but if you lived here you'd hardly know it, except for all the solar. But saying that of course they'd be interested shores up the preceding claim that the Japanese are world leaders in this research. Westerners seem very ready to believe that the Japanese would be way ahead in this or that advanced field, and the ever-practical Japanese wouldn't bother if it were all nonsense, would they? What's really attractive about it is that it's so difficult to check, it proves nothing if you can't find anything in English. So the idea seems to be regularly coopted by people needing some credence for perhaps dubious claims. No doubt there are Japanese researchers fiddling with all sorts of exotic things in various physics labs (though their nuclear power industry fails to impress), but we're rather involved in alternative energy issues here in Japan and we've heard nothing of anyone here leading the world by tapping into the energy of the ether, nor of any interest in such a thing. I'm not saying it's not true, but I'd like to see some references, especially urls. They can be in Japanese, that's okay with us. If you can't find any references maybe you should stop saying this, because there's a good chance it isn't true. Subjects such as these are fraught with hogwash and fraud and hearsay and rumour and conspiracisms, you need to pick your way through it all with great care if you're not going to be gulled. snip Sorry for talking too much. Best wishes, D. Mindock That's what it's for. However, please note what it says in the list rules: Anything that has to do with energy has relevance for biofuels issues. Similarly, though the focus is on ready-to-use technologies, discussion of all alternative energy technologies and topics is welcome. (Free energy scams might not be very welcome.) http://wwia.org/pipermail/biofuel/Week-of-Mon-20040906/05.html Best Keith - Original Message - From: Chuck Elsholz [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, April 11, 2005 7:33 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] The Lutec over unity device Hi. I was just wondering where the over-unity power is coming from. Also, has anyone referenced Dr. Bruce DePalma or the Space Power Generator, or the work of Dr. Searl and his devices? Happy to see great interest in a better and smarter world. Thanks, Chuck ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] The Lutec over unity device
first consider the source: Dr Andrew Snelling is a geologist with a B.Sc. (Hons) from The University of New South Wales and a Ph. D. from The University of Sydney, but now also works full-time with the Creation Science Foundation where he contributes to Creation Ex Nihilo magazine and edits the Creation Ex Nihilo Technical Journal. He resides in Brisbane, Australia. So he's a creationist. Big deal! You're wearing a wizard's hat on your web site. Does that detract from your credibility or the legitimacy of the arguments you espouse? I understand and accept that you do not ascribe the origin of life and the environment that sustains it to supernatural means, (despite your wizard's hat!), but I expect that a man of your intellect and education should limit commentary to the substance of the argument. Second, the example you cite doesn't negate the technique, it just calls for caution in selecting a site with an appropriate geomorphology to ensure an accurate date, free from confounding variables. what the article really says is that Koongarra, Australia is not a good site for dating. Did you miss the introduction? Let me quote it for you: However, it is important to remember that all radiometric dating methods are based on three main assumptions:- 1. The physico-chemical system must have always been closed. Thus no parent, daughter or other decay products within the system can have been removed, and no parent, daughter or other decay products from outside the system can have been added. 2. The system must initially have contained none of its daughter elements or decay products, or at the very least we need to know the starting conditions/state of the decay system. 3. The decay rate, referred to as the half-life of the radioactive parent element, must have always been the same, that is, constant. The highly speculative nature of all radiometric dating methods becomes apparent when one realizes that none of the above assumptions is either valid or provable. Put simply, none of these assumptions can have been observed to have always been true throughout the supposed millions of years the radioactive elements have presumed to have been decaying. This is hardly calling for caution in the Koongarra, Australia case alone. The author calls into question the underlying assumptions of all radiometric dating methods, according to what he has written above. Dr. Snelling criticizes the application of uranium - thorium - lead in general, then presents 5 points from the Koongarra mineralization data to demonstrate why this particular formation cannot be accurately dated by the U - Th - Pb method. Here's another quote: Indeed, the U- Th-Pb system is well known to be prone to open system behaviour, with U being particularly geochemically mobile, meaning that U is readily lost from the crystal lattices of the minerals used for 'dating', including zircons. Pb is also prone to diffusion from minerals. Thus it is questionable as to why this radiometric 'dating' method is still used. Instead, it is increasingly being applied in more sophisticated ways to geological 'dating' problems. He's indicting the whole process with statements of this nature. Now, geology is not my field, but I read English well enough to comprehend that this man disputes long age chronology using radiometric methods because he contends: As with all the other apparent isochron 'ages', these results from the weathered rocks and soils have no apparent geological meaning, because there is no geological event to which these 'ages' might correlate. Now you write here: radiometric dating, when performed by experienced scientists, and reviewed by peers, is the best method for determining the ages on lots of stuff, and far and away better than consulting the often transcribed oral history of a desert tribe from thousands of years ago. But Dr. Snelling is not arguing that the Hebrew creation poem presents a superior, scientific explanation. He's claiming that the conclusions drawn from radiometric dating methods that he describes as an open system present an invalid means of determining the age of geologic formations. That is the essence of his argument. In the event that you haven't actually read the oral history of that particular desert tribe, nowhere does it state the age of the earth. Short age creation chronology is a problem codified on our behalf by Bishop Ussher, not the Hebrews. Lets talk about protein first, the stuff dna codes for. Hemoglobin is a good example. It is the oxygen carrier for distribution of oxygen in a great number of animals. If I look at the specific amino acid sequence in hemoglobin, I see that is my hemoglobin is essentially identical to the hemoglobin of every human on the planet. (ok if you have tay-sachs disease or sickle cell anemia, you have a single amino acid
RE: [Biofuel] The Lutec over unity device
Hi All, I really dont care much for this so Ill keep it quick. I agree with your comments Bob. Folks who dont understand DNA well have great difficulty with this evolution stuff. There have also been many religious frauds, with the Shroud of Turin coming immediately to mind. Im not an agnostic. If anything I think folks should have an even larger idea of God rather than a small simplistic one. I mean where did the energy for the Big Bang come from anyway? It was large enough to spread the entire universe out from something extremely small and yet spawned fusion reactions in stars. Last I read, fusion reactions are the most powerful reactions weve actually seen. So at some point there had to be a Power greater than a fusion reaction. Call that whatever you will. Its difficult for me to look into the night sky, see the beauty, and not believe theres something else greater than mankind. Humbly, Tom Irwin -Original Message- From: bob allen To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 11/04/05 17:57 Subject: Re: [Biofuel] The Lutec over unity device Tim Brodie wrote: I'm always interested that people use the *Theory* of Evolution as an example of Science. At best you could call it an hypothesis, since to be science a theory must be observable and repeatable. things like phyolgenetic relationships, as indicated via the similarity of the dna of the genome are certainly observable and repeatable As I've looked into this idea of evolution, what I've found is alot of conjecture and interdisciplinary circular reasoning. Stories that constantly change. Comets this year, asteriods last year, volcanoes the year before. If you are talking about the mass extinctions which have occured from time to time over a hundreds of millions of years, then different extinctions have been discussed in the context of different events. Nothing here contradicts the simple notion that the diversity of life we see is due to random mutations selected for by various forces. These fossils are x-millions of years old say the *biologists* because they're found in rock x-millions of years old. These rocks are x-millions of years old say the *archiologists* because these fossils are in them, and we know that these animals lived x-millions of years ago. Actually, there are a whole bunch of methods for dating. In addition to stragraphy, there are numerous radioactive decay series, with overlapping half-lives, archeomagnetic dating which utilizes the meandreings of the magnetic poles, obsidian hydration, fission track, amino acid racemization, and on and on. There is no circular reasoning here. the methods are essentially indipendently verifiabe, and a ages determined from first principles. Look, an unobserved series of historical events happened. No transitional species have ever been found (notwithstanding several publications' attempts to present them from time to time) that has stood up to scrutiny. what? just in terms of human evolution, australopithecenes evolutionarily precede homo genera. Within Homo, are a series of species such as erectus, habilis, and on and on. And if you look at the dna the relationships are overwellminingly obvious. There is a gradual change in the dna as you move across the spectrum of life. My dna is more like a chimpanzee's than the chimpanzee's is like a gorilla's. Put another way, the dna of a sea squirt is more like mine than it is to a salmonella bacteria. One must really try hard to not see the relationships among life. Remember whole hominid skulls fashioned from one pig's tooth? No? That's because it isn't of general interest to the evolutionary *scientists*, and thus we still find Piltdown stories being published in children's 'science' textbooks. so frauds have occured. they don't negate the theory. Evolution is not science, it's a worldview that fits a set of religious beliefs and as such is really only a religious precursor. Certainly not science. criminently, there is nothing religious about recognizing that the easiest way to explain biological diversity is random mutations and selective pressure to create what we have in the world around us. -- Bob Allen http://ozarker.org/bob Science is what we have learned about how to keep from fooling ourselves Richard Feynman --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] The Lutec over unity device
Tim Brodie wrote: I'm always interested that people use the *Theory* of Evolution as an example of Science. At best you could call it an hypothesis, since to be science a theory must be observable and repeatable. things like phyolgenetic relationships, as indicated via the similarity of the dna of the genome are certainly observable and repeatable This tells us that living things in general are organized using similar building blocks, and that plants are organized in similar ways to other plants, etc. It doesn't necessarily demand conclusions about origins. As I've looked into this idea of evolution, what I've found is alot of conjecture and interdisciplinary circular reasoning. Stories that constantly change. Comets this year, asteriods last year, volcanoes the year before. If you are talking about the mass extinctions which have occured from time to time over a hundreds of millions of years, then different extinctions have been discussed in the context of different events. Nothing here contradicts the simple notion that the diversity of life we see is due to random mutations selected for by various forces. Perhaps the comment wasn't helpful; I'm trying to challenge the notion that explanations more often than not have nothing to do with historical events, or historical processes. These fossils are x-millions of years old say the *biologists* because they're found in rock x-millions of years old. These rocks are x-millions of years old say the *archiologists* because these fossils are in them, and we know that these animals lived x-millions of years ago. Actually, there are a whole bunch of methods for dating. In addition to stragraphy, there are numerous radioactive decay series, with overlapping half-lives, archeomagnetic dating which utilizes the meandreings of the magnetic poles, obsidian hydration, fission track, amino acid racemization, and on and on. There is no circular reasoning here. the methods are essentially indipendently verifiabe, and a ages determined from first principles. Help me out here. Produce one sample of rock that has been dated by any three of these methods that come within an order of magnitude of each other. I'll be really glad to see it; I've looked. Perhaps I just haven't connected with the right information. By the way, many of the presuppositions of these methods you've stated have primary flaws in reasoning that invalidates their results. Such as I've explained in a prior post about radioactive half life. Look, an unobserved series of historical events happened. No transitional species have ever been found (notwithstanding several publications' attempts to present them from time to time) that has stood up to scrutiny. what? just in terms of human evolution, australopithecenes evolutionarily precede homo genera. Within Homo, are a series of species such as erectus, habilis, and on and on. And if you look at the dna the relationships are overwellminingly obvious. There is a gradual change in the dna as you move across the spectrum of life. My dna is more like a chimpanzee's than the chimpanzee's is like a gorilla's. Put another way, the dna of a sea squirt is more like mine than it is to a salmonella bacteria. One must really try hard to not see the relationships among life. So you're saying that DNA has been collected from all the skeleton fragments that were used to construct this tree of descent? I'd be interested to see that. What is the degree of sequence match between the australopithecenes skeleton and one of us? Remember whole hominid skulls fashioned from one pig's tooth? No? That's because it isn't of general interest to the evolutionary *scientists*, and thus we still find Piltdown stories being published in children's 'science' textbooks. so frauds have occured. they don't negate the theory. Agreed, they don't. Why are science textbooks publishers so incredibly sloppy to keep publishing this tripe? Anyone? Bueller? Evolution is not science, it's a worldview that fits a set of religious beliefs and as such is really only a religious precursor. Certainly not science. criminently, ?? there is nothing religious about recognizing that the easiest way to explain biological diversity is random mutations and selective pressure to create what we have in the world around us. Others on the forum suggest that religion is all about having faith in spite of contradictory objective facts. It's also about creating a story to satisfy deep human spiritual needs. Myths to give greater meaning and purpose to life. (By the way, I'm not a religious person) Evolution is far from the easiest way to explain the diversity of life, but it is the most convenient. Best regards... Tim -- We do not see things as they are; we see things as we are. Tim Brodie, IT Manager:SysAdmin:S/W Developer, DWI California 501 S Idaho St, Suite 190, La Habra, CA 90631 USA Phone: 310-766-2338 Fax: 562-947-8287
Re: [Biofuel] The Lutec over unity device
I think it comes from the ratio of output power to input power. So 10 watts out for one watt in would give 10/1 = 10. Some devices are giving 200 times the input for the output. I believe the triple coated beads of Patterson give such a figure. One of the tenets of science is that the experiment must be reproducible. Patterson's device was checked by three top-flight labs by building the device from scratch using Patterson's design and his beads which he supplied. The labs all got the same result, a large output figure, but none were able to figure out why or how the devices were working. They just work. I don't know if Patterson himself knows exactly how they work. Inventors use intuition and trial and error a lot. He is a chemist, retired from Dow. I've heard of Searle, an Englishman I believe. But DePalma is a new name to me. Of course, we need to always acknowledge Nikola Tesla who was way ahead of everyone. I am reading a biography about him. He was/is an amazing genius, perhaps even moreso than Einstein. He built his machines and ran tests on them, all in his mind. He could make adjustments and retest, all without ever building the device. When he finally did build a device, it was not only a finished product, but one never conceived by anyone else. His professor told him that no one would ever build an AC motor. Tesla did this and a lot more. He felt he could do anything he wanted with electricity. Over unity doesn't explain where the energy is coming from, of course. That is still being hashed out, (google Tom Bearden)even as intrepid inventors build machines that are somehow tapping into this tremendous energy field that is everywhere. It appears that if this energy (aka the ether) was not present, we would not be present either. It is easy to forget that we are built of atoms and are subject to all the unseen forces in the universe. This is a fascinating idea (tapping into the energy of the ether) that seems to be producing results. The Japanese are reported to be the world leaders in this field. It is easy to see why the interest is so intense there. Here in the US of A, there seems to be an effort to make this field of endeavor something beneath real science, whatever real science is supposed to be. You could be labeled as gullible or worse for even bringing up the subject. Remember that for five years after the Wright Brothers flew at Kittyhawk, the New York Times called it a hoax. The magazine Scientific American also took a dim view of the Wright Brothers. So the Wright Brothers went to France where they were greeted as heroes. Only then did they get the respect they deserved here in the US. Pioneers are almost always castigated by experts. There always seems to be an entrenched group who want to preserve the status quo, regardless of the cost. We have our retro government in Wash DC which is denying reality. Next year the Toyota Prius loses its tax credit of $2000 while the Hummer keeps its $25000 credit. Go figure. Do you think they would be the least bit interested in an over-unity device? Their only interest is to discourage it everyway that they can. Even making biodiesel in your own garage for your own use is likely to be discouraged if it ever gets to be more than an annoyance to Big Oil. Sorry for talking too much. Best wishes, D. Mindock - Original Message - From: Chuck Elsholz [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, April 11, 2005 7:33 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] The Lutec over unity device Hi. I was just wondering where the over-unity power is coming from. Also, has anyone referenced Dr. Bruce DePalma or the Space Power Generator, or the work of Dr. Searl and his devices? Happy to see great interest in a better and smarter world. Thanks, Chuck ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] The Lutec over unity device
Very well put! I think we need to not to be afraid to admit that we hardly know anything at all. It is the mystery of it all that makes life so delicious. Peace and gratitude, D. Mindock - Original Message - From: Tom Irwin [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, April 11, 2005 5:56 PM Subject: RE: [Biofuel] The Lutec over unity device Hi All, I really dont care much for this so Ill keep it quick. I agree with your comments Bob. Folks who dont understand DNA well have great difficulty with this evolution stuff. There have also been many religious frauds, with the Shroud of Turin coming immediately to mind. Im not an agnostic. If anything I think folks should have an even larger idea of God rather than a small simplistic one. I mean where did the energy for the Big Bang come from anyway? It was large enough to spread the entire universe out from something extremely small and yet spawned fusion reactions in stars. Last I read, fusion reactions are the most powerful reactions weve actually seen. So at some point there had to be a Power greater than a fusion reaction. Call that whatever you will. Its difficult for me to look into the night sky, see the beauty, and not believe theres something else greater than mankind. Humbly, Tom Irwin -Original Message- From: bob allen To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 11/04/05 17:57 Subject: Re: [Biofuel] The Lutec over unity device Tim Brodie wrote: I'm always interested that people use the *Theory* of Evolution as an example of Science. At best you could call it an hypothesis, since to be science a theory must be observable and repeatable. things like phyolgenetic relationships, as indicated via the similarity of the dna of the genome are certainly observable and repeatable As I've looked into this idea of evolution, what I've found is alot of conjecture and interdisciplinary circular reasoning. Stories that constantly change. Comets this year, asteriods last year, volcanoes the year before. If you are talking about the mass extinctions which have occured from time to time over a hundreds of millions of years, then different extinctions have been discussed in the context of different events. Nothing here contradicts the simple notion that the diversity of life we see is due to random mutations selected for by various forces. These fossils are x-millions of years old say the *biologists* because they're found in rock x-millions of years old. These rocks are x-millions of years old say the *archiologists* because these fossils are in them, and we know that these animals lived x-millions of years ago. Actually, there are a whole bunch of methods for dating. In addition to stragraphy, there are numerous radioactive decay series, with overlapping half-lives, archeomagnetic dating which utilizes the meandreings of the magnetic poles, obsidian hydration, fission track, amino acid racemization, and on and on. There is no circular reasoning here. the methods are essentially indipendently verifiabe, and a ages determined from first principles. Look, an unobserved series of historical events happened. No transitional species have ever been found (notwithstanding several publications' attempts to present them from time to time) that has stood up to scrutiny. what? just in terms of human evolution, australopithecenes evolutionarily precede homo genera. Within Homo, are a series of species such as erectus, habilis, and on and on. And if you look at the dna the relationships are overwellminingly obvious. There is a gradual change in the dna as you move across the spectrum of life. My dna is more like a chimpanzee's than the chimpanzee's is like a gorilla's. Put another way, the dna of a sea squirt is more like mine than it is to a salmonella bacteria. One must really try hard to not see the relationships among life. Remember whole hominid skulls fashioned from one pig's tooth? No? That's because it isn't of general interest to the evolutionary *scientists*, and thus we still find Piltdown stories being published in children's 'science' textbooks. so frauds have occured. they don't negate the theory. Evolution is not science, it's a worldview that fits a set of religious beliefs and as such is really only a religious precursor. Certainly not science. criminently, there is nothing religious about recognizing that the easiest way to explain biological diversity is random mutations and selective pressure to create what we have in the world around us. -- Bob Allen http://ozarker.org/bob Science is what we have learned about how to keep from fooling ourselves Richard Feynman --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable
Re: [Biofuel] The Lutec over unity device
bob allen wrote: Tim Brodie wrote: I'm always interested that people use the *Theory* of Evolution as an example of Science. At best you could call it an hypothesis, since to be science a theory must be observable and repeatable. things like phyolgenetic relationships, as indicated via the similarity of the dna of the genome are certainly observable and repeatable This tells us that living things in general are organized using similar building blocks, and that plants are organized in similar ways to other plants, etc. It doesn't necessarily demand conclusions about origins. actually, all like is assembled alike, use the same genetic code. Applying Occam's razor, the best solution is that there is a evolutionary relationship As I've looked into this idea of evolution, what I've found is alot of conjecture and interdisciplinary circular reasoning. Stories that constantly change. Comets this year, asteriods last year, volcanoes the year before. If you are talking about the mass extinctions which have occured from time to time over a hundreds of millions of years, then different extinctions have been discussed in the context of different events. Nothing here contradicts the simple notion that the diversity of life we see is due to random mutations selected for by various forces. Perhaps the comment wasn't helpful; I'm trying to challenge the notion that explanations more often than not have nothing to do with historical events, or historical processes. I still don't understand what you are getting at here These fossils are x-millions of years old say the *biologists* because they're found in rock x-millions of years old. These rocks are x-millions of years old say the *archiologists* because these fossils are in them, and we know that these animals lived x-millions of years ago. Actually, there are a whole bunch of methods for dating. In addition to stragraphy, there are numerous radioactive decay series, with overlapping half-lives, archeomagnetic dating which utilizes the meandreings of the magnetic poles, obsidian hydration, fission track, amino acid racemization, and on and on. There is no circular reasoning here. the methods are essentially indipendently verifiabe, and a ages determined from first principles. Help me out here. Produce one sample of rock that has been dated by any three of these methods that come within an order of magnitude of each other. I'll be really glad to see it; I've looked. Perhaps I just haven't connected with the right information. ok, from Dalrymple, G. Brent (1991) The Age of the Earth. Stanford University Press, 474 pp. --- Some of the oldest rocks on earth are found in Western Greenland. Because of their great age, they have been especially well studied. The table below gives the ages, in billions of years, from twelve different studies using five different techniques on one particular rock formation in Western Greenland, the Amitsoq gneisses. Technique Age Range (billion years) uranium-lead3.600.05 lead-lead 3.560.10 lead-lead 3.740.12 lead-lead 3.620.13 rubidium-strontium 3.640.06 rubidium-strontium 3.620.14 rubidium-strontium 3.670.09 rubidium-strontium 3.660.10 rubidium-strontium 3.610.22 rubidium-strontium 3.560.14 lutetium-hafnium3.550.22 samarium-neodymium 3.560.20 (compiled from Dalrymple, 1991) Note that scientists give their results with a stated uncertainty. They take into account all the possible errors and give a range within which they are 95% sure that the actual value lies. The top number, 3.600.05, refers to the range 3.60+0.05 to 3.60-0.05. The size of this range is every bit as important as the actual number. A number with a small uncertainty range is more accurate than a number with a larger range. For the numbers given above, one can see that all of the ranges overlap and agree between 3.62 and 3.65 billion years as the age of the rock. Several studies also showed that, because of the great ages of these rocks, they have been through several mild metamorphic heating events that disturbed the ages given by potassium-bearing minerals (not listed here). As pointed out earlier, different radiometric dating methods agree with each other most of the time, over many thousands of measurements. Other examples of agreement between a number of different measurements of the same rocks are given in the references below.. -- Now tim, you have claimed that measurements are off by orders of magnitude. could you provide me with such evidence? Who has reproducibly got such variance? And I don't mean due to incompetence. By the way, many of the presuppositions of these methods you've stated have primary flaws in reasoning that invalidates their
Re: [Biofuel] The Lutec over unity device
Hi, Thanks for the response. I am familiar with Bearden and Maxwell, as well as Hyperdimentional Physics ala Hogland. Aetherial Theory is being worked on all over the world. The impacts will be tremendous. The work in Russia on Torsion Waves is also quite impressive. Dr. Bruce DePalma created the simple yet impressive spinning ball experiment as well as his own over unity device called the N-Machine. I am wondering if anyone is familiar with Faraday's Homopolar Motor. Does it produce extra energy? Thanks chuck -Original Message- Date: Tue, 12 Apr 2005 01:23:59 -0500 From: D. Mindock [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [Biofuel] The Lutec over unity device To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Message-ID: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=iso-8859-1; reply-type=original Yo Chuck, I think it comes from the ratio of output power to input power. So 10 watts out for one watt in would give 10/1 = 10. Some devices are giving 200 times the input for the output. I believe the triple coated beads of Patterson give such a figure. One of the tenets of science is that the experiment must be reproducible. Patterson's device was checked by three top-flight labs by building the device from scratch using Patterson's design and his beads which he supplied. The labs all got the same result, a large output figure, but none were able to figure out why or how the devices were working. They just work. I don't know if Patterson himself knows exactly how they work. Inventors use intuition and trial and error a lot. He is a chemist, retired from Dow. I've heard of Searle, an Englishman I believe. But DePalma is a new name to me. Of course, we need to always acknowledge Nikola Tesla who was way ahead of everyone. I am reading a biography about him. He was/is an amazing genius, perhaps even moreso than Einstein. He built his machines and ran tests on them, all in his mind. He could make adjustments and retest, all without ever building the device. When he finally did build a device, it was not only a finished product, but one never conceived by anyone else. His professor told him that no one would ever build an AC motor. Tesla did this and a lot more. He felt he could do anything he wanted with electricity. Over unity doesn't explain where the energy is coming from, of course. That is still being hashed out, (google Tom Bearden)even as intrepid inventors build machines that are somehow tapping into this tremendous energy field that is everywhere. It appears that if this energy (aka the ether) was not present, we would not be present either. It is easy to forget that we are built of atoms and are subject to all the unseen forces in the universe. This is a fascinating idea (tapping into the energy of the ether) that seems to be producing results. The Japanese are reported to be the world leaders in this field. It is easy to see why the interest is so intense there. Here in the US of A, there seems to be an effort to make this field of endeavor something beneath real science, whatever real science is supposed to be. You could be labeled as gullible or worse for even bringing up the subject. Remember that for five years after the Wright Brothers flew at Kittyhawk, the New York Times called it a hoax. The magazine Scientific American also took a dim view of the Wright Brothers. So the Wright Brothers went to France where they were greeted as heroes. Only then did they get the respect they deserved here in the US. Pioneers are almost always castigated by experts. There always seems to be an entrenched group who want to preserve the status quo, regardless of the cost. We have our retro government in Wash DC which is denying reality. Next year the Toyota Prius loses its tax credit of $2000 while the Hummer keeps its $25000 credit. Go figure. Do you think they would be the least bit interested in an over-unity device? Their only interest is to discourage it everyway that they can. Even making biodiesel in your own garage for your own use is likely to be discouraged if it ever gets to be more than an annoyance to Big Oil. Sorry for talking too much. Best wishes, D. Mindock ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] The Lutec over unity device
Thanks for your reply. I appreciate your respectful tone. bob allen wrote: Tim Brodie wrote: I'm always interested that people use the *Theory* of Evolution as an example of Science. At best you could call it an hypothesis, since to be science a theory must be observable and repeatable. things like phyolgenetic relationships, as indicated via the similarity of the dna of the genome are certainly observable and repeatable This tells us that living things in general are organized using similar building blocks, and that plants are organized in similar ways to other plants, etc. It doesn't necessarily demand conclusions about origins. actually, all like is assembled alike, use the same genetic code. Applying Occam's razor, the best solution is that there is a evolutionary relationship The best solution would be your first statement that all like is assembled alike, use the same genetic code. There is nothing causal past this statement that can be gleaned from scientific inquiry. Past this point are just guesses (educated or otherwise). As I've looked into this idea of evolution, what I've found is alot of conjecture and interdisciplinary circular reasoning. Stories that constantly change. Comets this year, asteriods last year, volcanoes the year before. If you are talking about the mass extinctions which have occured from time to time over a hundreds of millions of years, then different extinctions have been discussed in the context of different events. Nothing here contradicts the simple notion that the diversity of life we see is due to random mutations selected for by various forces. Perhaps the comment wasn't helpful; I'm trying to challenge the notion that explanations more often than not have nothing to do with historical events, or historical processes. I still don't understand what you are getting at here Lot's of articles have been written as to how and why President Kennedy got shot. Without a real observer all they are is conjecture. However, the President was shot during a specific sequence of events that are historical. They happened. We can argue all we want that things must have happened in a certain sequence, but we will only be correct if and when we actually guess the real historical sequence of events. The question of origins really comes down to whether or not we have a reliable observer of the events. If we say we don't, then really all we are left with is conjecture. What is, is that pile of fossilized bones. What we don't have, is an understanding of the real historical events that 'generated' them. So we invent what we consider to be plausible stories to explain it; like the tiger story Keith referred to earlier. These fossils are x-millions of years old say the *biologists* because they're found in rock x-millions of years old. These rocks are x-millions of years old say the *archiologists* because these fossils are in them, and we know that these animals lived x-millions of years ago. Actually, there are a whole bunch of methods for dating. In addition to stragraphy, there are numerous radioactive decay series, with overlapping half-lives, archeomagnetic dating which utilizes the meandreings of the magnetic poles, obsidian hydration, fission track, amino acid racemization, and on and on. There is no circular reasoning here. the methods are essentially indipendently verifiabe, and a ages determined from first principles. Help me out here. Produce one sample of rock that has been dated by any three of these methods that come within an order of magnitude of each other. I'll be really glad to see it; I've looked. Perhaps I just haven't connected with the right information. ok, from Dalrymple, G. Brent (1991) The Age of the Earth. Stanford University Press, 474 pp. --- Some of the oldest rocks on earth are found in Western Greenland. Because of their great age, they have been especially well studied. The table below gives the ages, in billions of years, from twelve different studies using five different techniques on one particular rock formation in Western Greenland, the Amitsoq gneisses. Technique Age Range (billion years) uranium-lead 3.600.05 lead-lead 3.560.10 lead-lead 3.740.12 lead-lead 3.620.13 rubidium-strontium 3.640.06 rubidium-strontium 3.620.14 rubidium-strontium 3.670.09 rubidium-strontium 3.660.10 rubidium-strontium 3.610.22 rubidium-strontium 3.560.14 lutetium-hafnium 3.550.22 samarium-neodymium 3.560.20 (compiled from Dalrymple, 1991) Note that scientists give their results with a stated uncertainty. They take into account all the possible errors and give a range within which they are 95% sure that the actual value lies. The top number, 3.600.05, refers to the range 3.60+0.05 to 3.60-0.05. The size of this range is every bit as important as the actual number.
Re: [Biofuel] The Lutec over unity device
Hi All, I really dont care much for this so Ill keep it quick. I agree with your comments Bob. Folks who dont understand DNA well have great difficulty with this evolution stuff. Additionally, some of us who understand DNA well have great difficulty accepting this evolution stuff as fact. It's a theory and should be understood as such. There have also been many religious frauds, with the Shroud of Turin coming immediately to mind. It's interesting that you should mention this. I read a book by Dr. Leoncio A. Garza - Valdes entitled The DNA of God? which examines the Shroud of Turin in a very different, and perhaps more rigorous, light than has been espoused in the past. Dr. Garza - Valdes studied smear samples from the occipital region of the shroud's dorsal image using a microscope, histochemical techniques (including Mallory's Prussian blue reaction and Wright's stain), and immunohisto-chemical techniques. He concluded that the smears present on the shroud consist of cellular material, rather than crystalline substance, as would be the case had the smears been produced by pigment. These smears have been almost entirely replaced by fungi and bacteria, though some cell structures remain. (They won't, however, for long!) Different scientists, looking at the same evidence, draw contrasting conclusions. Using samples lifted from the shroud, Drs. Baima Bollone, John Heller and Alan Adler reported that the stains consist of human blood. Dr. Walter McCrone, examining the very same samples, reported that no blood appears on the shroud, and the results of his examinations have been widely distributed. However, Dr. Garza - Valdes isolated human DNA from the shroud (tests performed at the PCR lab at U Texas, San Antonio) and cloned three gene segments. He concludes that the stains are indeed, human blood from a male. Now, Dr. Garza - Valdes specializes in the study of Mayan artifacts. Many of these were used in ceremonial blood letting, and on the objects exposed to human blood and sweat, a bioplastic sheen that results from microbial processes develops over time. Dr. Garza - Valdes examined the Shroud of Turin and concluded that the image appearing on it is the result of this bioplastic sheen, an image that would have taken several hundred years to become visible to the naked eye. (In brief, bacteria exist on the entire artifact. Where blood and sweat soaked into the fabric, the culture would grow as it consumed these substances. Areas of the highest bacterial growth produce the greatest percentage of bioplastic waste; the accumulation of which appears as a human image to our minds.) What of the famous radiocarbon dating? The question as it relates to the Shroud of Turin is this: What precisely is being measured by the radiocarbon dating? The acid - base - acid method most often used to clean samples has no impact on the bacteria present on the material, nor of the bioplastic coating over the flax fibers. With a higher concentration of sodium hydroxide, the flax could be destroyed, but the bioplastic tubules that had grown around the fibers remained intact. More than 60 percent of the material remaining on the Shroud of Turin consists of this bioplastic material; a sufficient proportion to skew the results. In other words, there is nothing wrong with the dating method, but the dating method is not measuring what we intend it to measure. The results from radiocarbon dating performed in 1988 (which showed a date range between 1260 and 1390) are likely skewed by the interference of more recent microbiological activity. The December 1994 radiocarbon dating performed on crushed samples from the shroud's threads (with the bioplastic tubules chemically removed and filtered) showed a date range between 5000 and 4200 years of age because of the Tris-borate buffer used in the test contains some carbon and ALSO skewed the results. So, what's the truth? Even if we could ascertain a 1st century age for the shroud, would that evidence conclusively prove that the Shroud of Turin was, in fact, the burial cloth of Jesus Christ? Hardly! My point in all of this is that we should be careful about drawing conclusions based upon evidence that we may not fully understand. Science is a method, not an interpretation; a question, not necessarily the answer. We need to keep our minds open as information comes to light, understanding that intelligent people approach the evidence from differing frames of reference, and as a result, will view the outcome through the lens of their own perspective. robert luis rabello The Edge of Justice Adventure for Your Mind http://www.authorhouse.com/BookStore/ItemDetail.aspx?bookid=9782 Ranger Supercharger Project Page http://www.members.shaw.ca/rabello/ ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel
Re: [Biofuel] The Lutec over unity device
Hi. I was just wondering where the over-unity power is coming from. Also, has anyone referenced Dr. Bruce DePalma or the Space Power Generator, or the work of Dr. Searl and his devices? Happy to see great interest in a better and smarter world. Thanks, Chuck ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] The Lutec over unity device
Hi Chuck, That's a question we're all asking. I wish the phrase over-unity was never coined because it negates the more important (and only reasonable) question being asked about the device. Where is the energy coming from? Mike Chuck Elsholz [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi. I was just wondering where the over-unity power is coming from. Also, has anyone referenced Dr. Bruce DePalma or the Space Power Generator, or the work of Dr. Searl and his devices? Happy to see great interest in a better and smarter world. Thanks, Chuck ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] The Lutec over unity device
I'm always interested that people use the *Theory* of Evolution as an example of Science. At best you could call it an hypothesis, since to be science a theory must be observable and repeatable. things like phyolgenetic relationships, as indicated via the similarity of the dna of the genome are certainly observable and repeatable As I've looked into this idea of evolution, what I've found is alot of conjecture and interdisciplinary circular reasoning. Stories that constantly change. Comets this year, asteriods last year, volcanoes the year before. If you are talking about the mass extinctions which have occured from time to time over a hundreds of millions of years, then different extinctions have been discussed in the context of different events. Nothing here contradicts the simple notion that the diversity of life we see is due to random mutations selected for by various forces. These fossils are x-millions of years old say the *biologists* because they're found in rock x-millions of years old. These rocks are x-millions of years old say the *archiologists* because these fossils are in them, and we know that these animals lived x-millions of years ago. Actually, there are a whole bunch of methods for dating. In addition to stragraphy, there are numerous radioactive decay series, with overlapping half-lives, archeomagnetic dating which utilizes the meandreings of the magnetic poles, obsidian hydration, fission track, amino acid racemization, and on and on. There is no circular reasoning here. the methods are essentially indipendently verifiabe, and a ages determined from first principles. Look, an unobserved series of historical events happened. No transitional species have ever been found (notwithstanding several publications' attempts to present them from time to time) that has stood up to scrutiny. what? just in terms of human evolution, australopithecenes evolutionarily precede homo genera. Within Homo, are a series of species such as erectus, habilis, and on and on. And if you look at the dna the relationships are overwellminingly obvious. There is a gradual change in the dna as you move across the spectrum of life. My dna is more like a chimpanzee's than the chimpanzee's is like a gorilla's. Put another way, the dna of a sea squirt is more like mine than it is to a salmonella bacteria. One must really try hard to not see the relationships among life. Remember whole hominid skulls fashioned from one pig's tooth? No? That's because it isn't of general interest to the evolutionary *scientists*, and thus we still find Piltdown stories being published in children's 'science' textbooks. so frauds have occured. they don't negate the theory. Evolution is not science, it's a worldview that fits a set of religious beliefs and as such is really only a religious precursor. Certainly not science. criminently, there is nothing religious about recognizing that the easiest way to explain biological diversity is random mutations and selective pressure to create what we have in the world around us. -- Bob Allen http://ozarker.org/bob Science is what we have learned about how to keep from fooling ourselves Richard Feynman --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] The Lutec over unity device
Evolution is not science, it's a worldview that fits a set of religious beliefs and as such is really only a religious precursor. Certainly not science. And what of the fact that I can place selective pressure on bacteria in a culture and get them to evolve a new trait, like, oh say, antibotic resistance? And then I can publish how I did it, and then Bob, who is 1000 miles away, can replicate it exactly, without us ever having met or spoken? Adaptation represents a loss of genetic information, not a gain. Evolution represents a systemic gain of information, since we move from lower completity to higher complexity over great spans of time. From virus to single cells to multi-cells, etc. We can breed out sensitivity to a particular antibiotic, but we aren't creating a new organism. We still have the same kind of bacterium, although it's adaptation may look like a different 'color'. We've been breeding dogs for centuries and selecting for various traits. We still only have dogs. Best regards... Tim ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] The Lutec over unity device
and read their pdf file, a free download. There's a couple dozen articles there. If you read them, you'll get a real sense of what's going on. You won't find it here in this forum. Peace, D. Mindock ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] The Lutec over unity device
Energy is energy. Unconventional energy sources? If they actually produced any energy rather than just smoke and hot air then they wouldn't be unconventional for long, conspiracism notwithstanding. see www.infinite-energy.com and read their pdf file, a free download. There's a couple dozen articles there. If you read them, you'll get a real sense of what's going on. What is going on other than a lot of talk, claims, hot air and smoke, and conspiracy theories? Anyhing at all? You won't find it here in this forum. I wonder why that might be? LOL! Peace to you too. Best wishes Keith Peace, D. Mindock ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
RE: [Biofuel] The Lutec over unity device
Hi All, One of my favorite devices was the Transmographier from Calvin and Hobbes. Then there was the Flux Capacitor from Buckaroo Banzai in the Fifth Dimension later stolen by the Back to the Future series. Remember any more folks? Tom with a smile -Original Message- From: Keith Addison To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 9/04/05 5:26 Subject: Re: [Biofuel] The Lutec over unity device For some good articles on unconventional energy, Energy is energy. Unconventional energy sources? If they actually produced any energy rather than just smoke and hot air then they wouldn't be unconventional for long, conspiracism notwithstanding. see www.infinite-energy.com and read their pdf file, a free download. There's a couple dozen articles there. If you read them, you'll get a real sense of what's going on. What is going on other than a lot of talk, claims, hot air and smoke, and conspiracy theories? Anyhing at all? You won't find it here in this forum. I wonder why that might be? LOL! Peace to you too. Best wishes Keith Peace, D. Mindock ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
RE: [Biofuel] The Lutec over unity device
I liked a friend's wonderfully simple plan for cutting car fuel consumption by 100% - and emissions too, therefore, though we didn't think much about emissions back then. He said all you had to do was to put really big wheels on the back and really small ones on the front and then the car would run downhill and you wouldn't need the engine. Best wishes Keith Hi All, One of my favorite devices was the Transmographier from Calvin and Hobbes. Then there was the Flux Capacitor from Buckaroo Banzai in the Fifth Dimension later stolen by the Back to the Future series. Remember any more folks? Tom with a smile -Original Message- From: Keith Addison To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 9/04/05 5:26 Subject: Re: [Biofuel] The Lutec over unity device For some good articles on unconventional energy, Energy is energy. Unconventional energy sources? If they actually produced any energy rather than just smoke and hot air then they wouldn't be unconventional for long, conspiracism notwithstanding. see www.infinite-energy.com and read their pdf file, a free download. There's a couple dozen articles there. If you read them, you'll get a real sense of what's going on. What is going on other than a lot of talk, claims, hot air and smoke, and conspiracy theories? Anyhing at all? You won't find it here in this forum. I wonder why that might be? LOL! Peace to you too. Best wishes Keith Peace, D. Mindock ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] The Lutec over unity device
extensions of the second law of thermodynamics or Origins of Oil and the Abiotic Theory , but no energy to be found. rant The latter is particularly galling to me as a scientist, and a continuing source of confusion. the word theory used by a scientist is defined as an overarching explanation of a large set of data, with bazillions of studies supporting the concept. The basic atomic theory and the theory of evolution come to mind. The problem is those with a less pedantic bent use the word theory in the sense of conjecture or notion or maybe even hypothesis. /rant ;) D. Mindock wrote: For some good articles on unconventional energy, see www.infinite-energy.com and read their pdf file, a free download. There's a couple dozen articles there. If you read them, you'll get a real sense of what's going on. You won't find it here in this forum. Peace, D. Mindock ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ -- Bob Allen http://ozarker.org/bob Science is what we have learned about how to keep from fooling ourselves - Richard Feynman ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] The Lutec over unity device
rant The latter is particularly galling to me as a scientist, and a continuing source of confusion. the word theory used by a scientist is defined as an overarching explanation of a large set of data, with bazillions of studies supporting the concept. The basic atomic theory and the theory of evolution come to mind. /rant ;) I'm always interested that people use the *Theory* of Evolution as an example of Science. At best you could call it an hypothesis, since to be science a theory must be observable and repeatable. As I've looked into this idea of evolution, what I've found is alot of conjecture and interdisciplinary circular reasoning. Stories that constantly change. Comets this year, asteriods last year, volcanoes the year before. These fossils are x-millions of years old say the *biologists* because they're found in rock x-millions of years old. These rocks are x-millions of years old say the *archiologists* because these fossils are in them, and we know that these animals lived x-millions of years ago. Look, an unobserved series of historical events happened. No transitional species have ever been found (notwithstanding several publications' attempts to present them from time to time) that has stood up to scrutiny. Remember whole hominid skulls fashioned from one pig's tooth? No? That's because it isn't of general interest to the evolutionary *scientists*, and thus we still find Piltdown stories being published in children's 'science' textbooks. Evolution is not science, it's a worldview that fits a set of religious beliefs and as such is really only a religious precursor. Certainly not science. Best regards... Tim ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
RE: [Biofuel] The Lutec over unity device
Keith (and all), I've always been a fan of the internal gravity drive system you have described here. However, please note the huge penalty encountered when you need to reverse. Also problematic when climbing very steep inclines. The low-tech version of course is simply to plan all your trips so that you always drive downhill. There is also the water/hydrogen fuel system which is so popular in weblore of late. Personally, I think more research is required into the potential for spraying steam into the combustion chamber with the hydrogen to increase the expansion rate, producing more power, and obtaining more energy from the same amount of water fuel. Having some experience with electric drive systems, I have had discussions on some other techniques. Having batteries to store electrical energy opens several additional options. There is the potential for stringing energy collection webbing over the vehicle to collect cosmic or zero-point energy to charge the batteries continuously. (Due to the low voltage, a network of capacitors and voltage doublers - which obviously double the energy available - is likely required as well, but you know, no investment is too large when we're talking free energy. Naturally ultra- capacitors improve the efficiency relative to those older, conventional capacitors.) The Tesla electric car provides incontrovertible evidence that this is a viable approach (if only it still existed or anyone actually had any idea how it worked). My personal favourite remains the generator on one wheel energy multiplication system. Simply put a generator one wheel of the electric car, and use it to produce electricity to charge the batteries while driving. The car will never run out of charge this way. I have been approached so many times about this technology that I am prepared to provide a fully functional electric car to anyone who wishes to pursue this research for a mere Cdn$15,000.00. This to hasten the necessary research and prototyping or the individual or consortium that will inevitably become rich beyond our dreams by perfecting this technology. (Caveats: I only have one testbed available, so it is first-come, first-serve - cash, money order or certified cheque. If demand warrants, I will try to supply additional testbeds, but only in the name of stimulating competition to encourage faster development of this technology.) I'll cut this short as I have to meet with a potential business partner this afternoon, but would love to get into the mechanics of a wind-generator-powered electric car, which would obviously be charged by the high wind speed of the vehicle traveling on the road turning the turbine blades. Darryl McMahon (physics is so limiting compared to our imaginations) Hi Tom I liked a friend's wonderfully simple plan for cutting car fuel consumption by 100% - and emissions too, therefore, though we didn't think much about emissions back then. He said all you had to do was to put really big wheels on the back and really small ones on the front and then the car would run downhill and you wouldn't need the engine. Best wishes Keith Hi All, One of my favorite devices was the Transmographier from Calvin and Hobbes. Then there was the Flux Capacitor from Buckaroo Banzai in the Fifth Dimension later stolen by the Back to the Future series. Remember any more folks? Tom with a smile -Original Message- From: Keith Addison To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 9/04/05 5:26 Subject: Re: [Biofuel] The Lutec over unity device For some good articles on unconventional energy, Energy is energy. Unconventional energy sources? If they actually produced any energy rather than just smoke and hot air then they wouldn't be unconventional for long, conspiracism notwithstanding. see www.infinite-energy.com and read their pdf file, a free download. There's a couple dozen articles there. If you read them, you'll get a real sense of what's going on. What is going on other than a lot of talk, claims, hot air and smoke, and conspiracy theories? Anyhing at all? You won't find it here in this forum. I wonder why that might be? LOL! Peace to you too. Best wishes Keith Peace, D. Mindock -- Darryl McMahon http://www.econogics.com/ It's your planet. If you won't look after it, who will? ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] The Lutec over unity device
Evolution is not science, it's a worldview that fits a set of religious beliefs and as such is really only a religious precursor. Certainly not science. And what of the fact that I can place selective pressure on bacteria in a culture and get them to evolve a new trait, like, oh say, antibotic resistance? And then I can publish how I did it, and then Bob, who is 1000 miles away, can replicate it exactly, without us ever having met or spoken? Not science you say? I beg to differ. jh ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] The Lutec over unity device
extensions of the second law of thermodynamics or Origins of Oil and the Abiotic Theory , but no energy to be found. rant The latter is particularly galling to me as a scientist, and a continuing source of confusion. the word theory used by a scientist is defined as an overarching explanation of a large set of data, with bazillions of studies supporting the concept. The basic atomic theory and the theory of evolution come to mind. The problem is those with a less pedantic bent use the word theory in the sense of conjecture or notion or maybe even hypothesis. /rant ;) Aw, Bob, you mean Timothy Leary's Theory ain't nowt but condeckchair? Now there's a sad thing. But I must agree with you about this. On the other hand, it's also true to say that the august edifice of science is pretty damn' good at ignoring excellent and watertight scientific work that doesn't conform to its comfortable assumptions, as one of those articles notes, and these days it's pretty corrupt with it, bought and owned, far to often, with he who pay's the piper very much calling the tune. And the results, which are then offered as science. Scylla and Charybdis. Like life, eh? Regards Keith D. Mindock wrote: For some good articles on unconventional energy, see www.infinite-energy.com and read their pdf file, a free download. There's a couple dozen articles there. If you read them, you'll get a real sense of what's going on. You won't find it here in this forum. Peace, D. Mindock ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
RE: [Biofuel] The Lutec over unity device
Keith Hi All, One of my favorite devices was the Transmographier from Calvin and Hobbes. Then there was the Flux Capacitor from Buckaroo Banzai in the Fifth Dimension later stolen by the Back to the Future series. Remember any more folks? Tom with a smile -Original Message- From: Keith Addison To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 9/04/05 5:26 Subject: Re: [Biofuel] The Lutec over unity device For some good articles on unconventional energy, Energy is energy. Unconventional energy sources? If they actually produced any energy rather than just smoke and hot air then they wouldn't be unconventional for long, conspiracism notwithstanding. see www.infinite-energy.com and read their pdf file, a free download. There's a couple dozen articles there. If you read them, you'll get a real sense of what's going on. What is going on other than a lot of talk, claims, hot air and smoke, and conspiracy theories? Anyhing at all? You won't find it here in this forum. I wonder why that might be? LOL! Peace to you too. Best wishes Keith Peace, D. Mindock -- Darryl McMahon http://www.econogics.com/ It's your planet. If you won't look after it, who will? ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
RE: [Biofuel] The Lutec over unity device
Yes, I am actually hoping to put a couple of fusion units together To make them breed, you mean? Aren't you mixing technologies a bit? since I can't find a source of dilithium crystals on this remote forgotten outpost. Yes, life can be tough out here on Planet Earth. Some folks on Ganymede were giving it away for nothing, or so they claimed, but you know what they say about Ganymedeans bearing gifts. Probably got anti-deuterium in it, boom! Warped sense of humour, those Ganymedeans. Would you accept half a pound of pure unobtanium as payment? Per watt produced of course? Yes, please direct the bulk carrier to Kobe rather than Osaka, it's more convenient for us. You can make up the bulk with 10% tincanium if you wish. Take care Kirk Regards Keith :) Kirk Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Common sense is actually quite uncommon in some circles. Most of the free energy people I have talked with seem to have a large emotional investment in their paradigm, be it concern about energy shortage to perceiving themselves as victims of a cabal. Your points are valid but I don't think the average Lutec fan will understand you. Great invention Keith. Will a Pepsi bottle work just as well? LOL! No, Kirk, it has to be a Dr Pepsi bottle. Do I see you getting out your chequebook? :-) regards Keith :) Kirk Jurie Vorster wrote: Not an expert in any particular field but common sense and a bit of logic tells me... 1) The how-it-works stuff claims that the *permanent* magnet provides energy in keeping the object suspended from the roof equating to a electromagnet holding it up there but expending energy instead. WELL, how would LUTEC explain the energy content of PERMANENT GLUE holding up the object... or what about hanging it from a PERMANENT HOOK that is screwed into the ceiling? 2) In the device, the magnets moves towards the steel thus giving inertial energy to the armature... then a counter electromagnetic field is applied to neutralise the magnetic properties of the steel thus allowing the permanent magnets to rotate past freely. This neutralising pulse needs to be long enough so that the next step can initiate or until the back-step that will slow down the magnets (thus reducing its inertial energy) pull is less than the forward-step pull. AT BEST, the amount of energy to neutralise the steel magnetic effect will equal the amount of inertial energy generated by the pull of the magnets towards the steel... no GAIN. Thus there will be only loss of total energy and the efficiency of the smoothing effect as per patent description will be related to the losses in the electronics to control the neutralising field coils and mechanical resistance etc... FUTURE DEVELOMENTS My theory is that if someone can find a MATERIAL that cuts or shield a magnetic field in line-of-sight to achieve the neutralising effect proposed by the LUTEC device creator, can such a device be possible. No such material exists to my knowledge as the magnetic field would curl around the shield and still slow down the permanent magnets. Some savvy boffin may be able to come up with such a material that could even be made to mechanically rotate into and out of the line-of-sight with the permanent magnets... not unlike these film-strip movie projectors synchronises field frames onto the viewing screen. My longwinded two cents worth. Can we now get back to Bio Diesel!?!? Jurie. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Chris Sent: 03 April 2005 03:07 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [Biofuel] The Lutec over unity device OK Keith, be nice. I've developed this wonderful technique of producing cold fusion in a Dr Pepper bottle, just add the secret ingredients and shake it 3.5 times... Interested? Keith ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] The Lutec over unity device
I believe there is a Ferengie trader in your area that might be able to help but it will cost you. Then again look on the bright side. At least the Ferengie aren't Halliburton. If they were you'd really get screwed. Rick Kirk McLoren wrote: Yes, I am actually hoping to put a couple of fusion units together since I can't find a source of dilithium crystals on this remote forgotten outpost. Would you accept half a pound of pure unobtanium as payment? :) Kirk Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Common sense is actually quite uncommon in some circles. Most of the free energy people I have talked with seem to have a large emotional investment in their paradigm, be it concern about energy shortage to perceiving themselves as victims of a cabal. Your points are valid but I don't think the average Lutec fan will understand you. Great invention Keith. Will a Pepsi bottle work just as well? LOL! No, Kirk, it has to be a Dr Pepsi bottle. Do I see you getting out your chequebook? :-) regards Keith :) Kirk Jurie Vorster wrote: Not an expert in any particular field but common sense and a bit of logic tells me... 1) The how-it-works stuff claims that the *permanent* magnet provides energy in keeping the object suspended from the roof equating to a electromagnet holding it up there but expending energy instead. WELL, how would LUTEC explain the energy content of PERMANENT GLUE holding up the object... or what about hanging it from a PERMANENT HOOK that is screwed into the ceiling? 2) In the device, the magnets moves towards the steel thus giving inertial energy to the armature... then a counter electromagnetic field is applied to neutralise the magnetic properties of the steel thus allowing the permanent magnets to rotate past freely. This neutralising pulse needs to be long enough so that the next step can initiate or until the back-step that will slow down the magnets (thus reducing its inertial energy) pull is less than the forward-step pull. AT BEST, the amount of energy to neutralise the steel magnetic effect will equal the amount of inertial energy generated by the pull of the magnets towards the steel... no GAIN. Thus there will be only loss of total energy and the efficiency of the smoothing effect as per patent description will be related to the losses in the electronics to control the neutralising field coils and mechanical resistance etc... FUTURE DEVELOMENTS My theory is that if someone can find a MATERIAL that cuts or shield a magnetic field in line-of-sight to achieve the neutralising effect proposed by the LUTEC device creator, can such a device be possible. No such material exists to my knowledge as the magnetic field would curl around the shield and still slow down the permanent magnets. Some savvy boffin may be able to come up with such a material that could even be made to mechanically rotate into and out of the line-of-sight with the permanent magnets... not unlike these film-strip movie projectors synchronises field frames onto the viewing screen. My longwinded two cents worth. Can we now get back to Bio Diesel!?!? Jurie. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Chris Sent: 03 April 2005 03:07 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [Biofuel] The Lutec over unity device OK Keith, be nice. I've developed this wonderful technique of producing cold fusion in a Dr Pepper bottle, just add the secret ingredients and shake it 3.5 times... Interested? Keith - Do you Yahoo!? Better first dates. More second dates. Yahoo! Personals ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
RE: [Biofuel] The Lutec over unity device
Not an expert in any particular field but common sense and a bit of logic tells me... 1) The how-it-works stuff claims that the *permanent* magnet provides energy in keeping the object suspended from the roof equating to a electromagnet holding it up there but expending energy instead. WELL, how would LUTEC explain the energy content of PERMANENT GLUE holding up the object... or what about hanging it from a PERMANENT HOOK that is screwed into the ceiling? 2) In the device, the magnets moves towards the steel thus giving inertial energy to the armature... then a counter electromagnetic field is applied to neutralise the magnetic properties of the steel thus allowing the permanent magnets to rotate past freely. This neutralising pulse needs to be long enough so that the next step can initiate or until the back-step that will slow down the magnets (thus reducing its inertial energy) pull is less than the forward-step pull. AT BEST, the amount of energy to neutralise the steel magnetic effect will equal the amount of inertial energy generated by the pull of the magnets towards the steel... no GAIN. Thus there will be only loss of total energy and the efficiency of the smoothing effect as per patent description will be related to the losses in the electronics to control the neutralising field coils and mechanical resistance etc... FUTURE DEVELOMENTS My theory is that if someone can find a MATERIAL that cuts or shield a magnetic field in line-of-sight to achieve the neutralising effect proposed by the LUTEC device creator, can such a device be possible. No such material exists to my knowledge as the magnetic field would curl around the shield and still slow down the permanent magnets. Some savvy boffin may be able to come up with such a material that could even be made to mechanically rotate into and out of the line-of-sight with the permanent magnets... not unlike these film-strip movie projectors synchronises field frames onto the viewing screen. My longwinded two cents worth. Can we now get back to Bio Diesel!?!? Jurie. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Chris Sent: 03 April 2005 03:07 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [Biofuel] The Lutec over unity device OK Keith, be nice. I've developed this wonderful technique of producing cold fusion in a Dr Pepper bottle, just add the secret ingredients and shake it 3.5 times... Interested? Keith Chris Kueny ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) 78 Chevy Custom DeLuxe '85 300TD '02 Subaru Outback ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
RE: [Biofuel] The Lutec over unity device
Thanks for the comments, but... snip My longwinded two cents worth. You can be as longwinded as you like. Can we now get back to Bio Diesel!?!? No, in a word. This is not a biodiesel list, it's a biofuels list, and that's not just a quibble. When you joined the list you were sent a Welcome message, which you're obliged to read. It referred to the List rules, which you're also obliged to read. The List rules are here: http://wwia.org/pipermail/biofuel/Week-of-Mon-20040906/05.html They say this, among other things: Some newcomers don't realize at first that it's a *biofuels* list, not just about how to make biodiesel. Biofuels is a much more wide-ranging subject and it comes with a context. With such an international membership, what has nothing to do with biofuels is a matter of opinion. Anything that has to do with energy has relevance for biofuels issues. Similarly, though the focus is on ready-to-use technologies, discussion of all alternative energy technologies and topics is welcome. (Free energy scams might not be very welcome.) [But they're not banned - K] So the discussion is free and open. That is a long-established tradition of the list, much discussed and endorsed by the majority of the list membership. There aren't a lot of rules, but that is one of them: no calls for restricted discussion. It's a discussion list, not a less-discussion list. That said, the Biofuel list is also a very good place to learn how to make and use biodiesel, with about the best resources there are and many experienced biodieselers who are happy to help. That rule is stricty enforced. Saying something like Can we now get back to Bio Diesel!?!? could get you booted and banned. Anyway, there's plenty of room for everything, nobody is forcing you to read anything you don't want to read. Messages have subject-headers. Technical discussions on direct biofuels issues continue all the time. If what you want to discuss is not being discussed, then start your own thread. If you find that other people's posts that you are not interested in are hampering you then you need to improve your email skills. See: http://archive.nnytech.net/sgroup/BIOFUEL/21700/ Best wishes Keith Addison Journey to Forever KYOTO Pref., Japan http://journeytoforever.org/ Biofuel list owner Jurie. ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
RE: [Biofuel] The Lutec over unity device
Common sense is actually quite uncommon in some circles. Most of the free energy people I have talked with seem to have a large emotional investment in their paradigm, be it concern about energy shortage to perceiving themselves as victims of a cabal. Your points are valid but I don't think the average Lutec fan will understand you. Great invention Keith. Will a Pepsi bottle work just as well? :) Kirk Jurie Vorster [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Not an expert in any particular field but common sense and a bit of logic tells me... 1) The how-it-works stuff claims that the *permanent* magnet provides energy in keeping the object suspended from the roof equating to a electromagnet holding it up there but expending energy instead. WELL, how would LUTEC explain the energy content of PERMANENT GLUE holding up the object... or what about hanging it from a PERMANENT HOOK that is screwed into the ceiling? 2) In the device, the magnets moves towards the steel thus giving inertial energy to the armature... then a counter electromagnetic field is applied to neutralise the magnetic properties of the steel thus allowing the permanent magnets to rotate past freely. This neutralising pulse needs to be long enough so that the next step can initiate or until the back-step that will slow down the magnets (thus reducing its inertial energy) pull is less than the forward-step pull. AT BEST, the amount of energy to neutralise the steel magnetic effect will equal the amount of inertial energy generated by the pull of the magnets towards the steel... no GAIN. Thus there will be only loss of total energy and the efficiency of the smoothing effect as per patent description will be related to the losses in the electronics to control the neutralising field coils and mechanical resistance etc... FUTURE DEVELOMENTS My theory is that if someone can find a MATERIAL that cuts or shield a magnetic field in line-of-sight to achieve the neutralising effect proposed by the LUTEC device creator, can such a device be possible. No such material exists to my knowledge as the magnetic field would curl around the shield and still slow down the permanent magnets. Some savvy boffin may be able to come up with such a material that could even be made to mechanically rotate into and out of the line-of-sight with the permanent magnets... not unlike these film-strip movie projectors synchronises field frames onto the viewing screen. My longwinded two cents worth. Can we now get back to Bio Diesel!?!? Jurie. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Chris Sent: 03 April 2005 03:07 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [Biofuel] The Lutec over unity device OK Keith, be nice. I've developed this wonderful technique of producing cold fusion in a Dr Pepper bottle, just add the secret ingredients and shake it 3.5 times... Interested? Keith - Do you Yahoo!? Better first dates. More second dates. Yahoo! Personals ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
RE: [Biofuel] The Lutec over unity device
free energy people I have talked with seem to have a large emotional investment in their paradigm, be it concern about energy shortage to perceiving themselves as victims of a cabal. Your points are valid but I don't think the average Lutec fan will understand you. Great invention Keith. Will a Pepsi bottle work just as well? LOL! No, Kirk, it has to be a Dr Pepsi bottle. Do I see you getting out your chequebook? :-) regards Keith :) Kirk Jurie Vorster [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Not an expert in any particular field but common sense and a bit of logic tells me... 1) The how-it-works stuff claims that the *permanent* magnet provides energy in keeping the object suspended from the roof equating to a electromagnet holding it up there but expending energy instead. WELL, how would LUTEC explain the energy content of PERMANENT GLUE holding up the object... or what about hanging it from a PERMANENT HOOK that is screwed into the ceiling? 2) In the device, the magnets moves towards the steel thus giving inertial energy to the armature... then a counter electromagnetic field is applied to neutralise the magnetic properties of the steel thus allowing the permanent magnets to rotate past freely. This neutralising pulse needs to be long enough so that the next step can initiate or until the back-step that will slow down the magnets (thus reducing its inertial energy) pull is less than the forward-step pull. AT BEST, the amount of energy to neutralise the steel magnetic effect will equal the amount of inertial energy generated by the pull of the magnets towards the steel... no GAIN. Thus there will be only loss of total energy and the efficiency of the smoothing effect as per patent description will be related to the losses in the electronics to control the neutralising field coils and mechanical resistance etc... FUTURE DEVELOMENTS My theory is that if someone can find a MATERIAL that cuts or shield a magnetic field in line-of-sight to achieve the neutralising effect proposed by the LUTEC device creator, can such a device be possible. No such material exists to my knowledge as the magnetic field would curl around the shield and still slow down the permanent magnets. Some savvy boffin may be able to come up with such a material that could even be made to mechanically rotate into and out of the line-of-sight with the permanent magnets... not unlike these film-strip movie projectors synchronises field frames onto the viewing screen. My longwinded two cents worth. Can we now get back to Bio Diesel!?!? Jurie. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Chris Sent: 03 April 2005 03:07 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [Biofuel] The Lutec over unity device OK Keith, be nice. I've developed this wonderful technique of producing cold fusion in a Dr Pepper bottle, just add the secret ingredients and shake it 3.5 times... Interested? Keith ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] The Lutec over unity device
Keith, I'll take two! Ah heck, make it a six pack. - Original Message - From: Keith Addisonmailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, April 01, 2005 12:42 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] The Lutec over unity device Hi Craig Keith, I haven't laughed that hard in the past 74 3/8 hours! Oh well I put a stop payment on my $1,000 check just to get in line to order the 15:1 energy unit! Still looking for that cold fusion guy from RONCO! :-) Great, isn't it? Humans, you gotta love 'em! While you've got your checkbook handy... Never mind the guy from RONCO, I've developed this wonderful technique of producing cold fusion in a Dr Pepper bottle, just add the secret ingredients and shake it 3.5 times... Interested? Keith - Original Message - From: Keith Addisonmailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, April 01, 2005 8:11 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] The Lutec over unity device I see why they call it down under now.Perpetural motion isn't possible on this planet. I think not in this universe.This guy has slid over into another dimension or what? JD2005 Eric Krieg lists 78 free energy scams here, doesn't seem to get into the zero-point stuff and instant cold fusion, so there's all that besides: http://www.phact.org/e/dennis4.htmlhttp://www.phact.org/e/dennis4.htmlhttp://www.phact.org/e/dennis4.htmlhttp://www.phact.org/e/dennis4.html Eric's history of Perpetual Motion and Free Energy Machines Plus: How to become a Free Energy con man http://www.phact.org/e/con_man.htmhttp://www.phact.org/e/con_man.htmhttp://www.phact.org/e/con_man.htmhttp://www.phact.org/e/con_man.htm And: The Museum of Unworkable Devices http://www.lhup.edu/~dsimanek/museum/unwork.htmhttp://www.lhup.edu/~dhttp://www.lhup.edu/~d simanek/museum/unwork.htm Enjoy! Keith - Original Message - From: D. Mindock To: Undisclosed-Recipient:; Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2005 12:45 AM Subject: [Biofuel] The Lutec over unity device This device (see attached pic) is due for release, starting in Australia where Lutec Pty Ltd is located... ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED]mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuelhttp://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlhttp://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] The Lutec over unity device
entail huge men standing in the doorway to the guys home.threatening to make the guy disappear if he pursues this technology. surprisingly I have seen this device before a local guy around here was on the news saying the U.S. wont give him a patent on the devise. the basic argument people have with this device is that if you ground the machine it only produces less than 8 percent of the input, however ungrounded it produces like 1500 times the energy you put into it. even if the universe grants this machine special privileges to ignore the law of thermal dynamics the only way to get it to work is to leave the whole system ungrounded. - Original Message - From: D. Mindock [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Undisclosed-Recipient:; Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2005 12:45 AM Subject: [Biofuel] The Lutec over unity device This device (see attached pic) is due for release, starting in Australia where Lutec Pty Ltd is located, and then to all countries where licensing is completed. This device can furnish the all the electricity needed by the average home and runs on battery power. It produces 15 times more energy than it uses from the battery input. It's installed in the home where it's to be used. See their website at: www.lutec.com.au It appears to be the real deal. Let's hope it is. Peace and light, D. Mindock P.S. It is interesting that the Australian government would not provide any startup help whatsoever. Let's hope nothing stops the release of this new technology. It does seem that every time something like this comes along it is trashed by vested powers. It is not hard to imagine this technology powering cars and trucks, producing zero pollution and unlimited mileage. ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] The Lutec over unity device
- Original Message - From: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, April 01, 2005 11:42 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] The Lutec over unity device Hi Craig Keith, I haven't laughed that hard in the past 74 3/8 hours! Oh well I put a stop payment on my $1,000 check just to get in line to order the 15:1 energy unit! Still looking for that cold fusion guy from RONCO! :-) Great, isn't it? Humans, you gotta love 'em! While you've got your checkbook handy... Never mind the guy from RONCO, I've developed this wonderful technique of producing cold fusion in a Dr Pepper bottle, just add the secret ingredients and shake it 3.5 times... Interested? Keith - Original Message - From: Keith Addisonmailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, April 01, 2005 8:11 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] The Lutec over unity device I see why they call it down under now.Perpetural motion isn't possible on this planet. I think not in this universe.This guy has slid over into another dimension or what? JD2005 Eric Krieg lists 78 free energy scams here, doesn't seem to get into the zero-point stuff and instant cold fusion, so there's all that besides: http://www.phact.org/e/dennis4.htmlhttp://www.phact.org/e/dennis4.html Eric's history of Perpetual Motion and Free Energy Machines Plus: How to become a Free Energy con man http://www.phact.org/e/con_man.htmhttp://www.phact.org/e/con_man.htm And: The Museum of Unworkable Devices http://www.lhup.edu/~dsimanek/museum/unwork.htmhttp://www.lhup.edu/~d simanek/museum/unwork.htm Enjoy! Keith - Original Message - From: D. Mindock To: Undisclosed-Recipient:; Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2005 12:45 AM Subject: [Biofuel] The Lutec over unity device This device (see attached pic) is due for release, starting in Australia where Lutec Pty Ltd is located... ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
RE: [Biofuel] The Lutec over unity device
Greetings all, If nothing else, well said! There is much we do not know about magnetism in general. I am facinated by the life of Nicola Tesla. He seems far ahead of his time. When something goes against what many of us have been taught and accept as truth we often react critically. As a scientist I accept this criticism even when harse as relatively benign. It«s part of the scientific process. We in science do not really prove anything. We rather good at disproving things. But no scientist worth his salt will give you anything more than a probability that something is the truth. I appreciate your input but with this, as the saying goes, I«m from Missouri I have to be shown. Thanks, Tom Irwin -Original Message- From: D. Mindock To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 1/04/05 5:10 Subject: Re: [Biofuel] The Lutec over unity device To All, I must say first of all that I was only acting as the bearer of the information. I also did not say that I believed it was real, only that I hoped that it was. Anything wrong with that? If you read the Lutec website you will see that they do not want your money, even if you offered it to them. (My friend Renee has known co-inventor John since the early 80's when he was working on this device. She later lost contact with him when he moved to Santa Cruz. She was surprised, relieved, and very happy to see that John might have finally got the device to work.) Now for Michael's point that no energy is produced since force x distance = energy. I don't know, but if the magnet is counteracting the force of gravity, it seems that something energetic must be doing this. Let's do a mental experiment. Suppose that a steel bearing is precisely balancing the force of gravity so that the bearing is suspended in space. Now let's introduce a very small magnet next to the bigger one that holding the bearing suspended. What will happen? The bearing will rise against the force of gravity until it contacts the magnet. Work was done, obviously. But now the magnet is not doing classical work since the bearing is in contact with it. No movement implies no energy expenditure. Only potential energy remains. The inventors compare this situation to one using an electromagnet. If an electromagnet is used you must pump current through the coil winding to make the magnetic force arise. To hold the bearing in place against the force of gravity you must expend energy to hold the bearing. Energy is used up as the current goes through the windings. The magnet does this for free. That's their argument. Is it sound? Well, if the windings and source had zero resistance, the loss would be zero, and it too would be free. So it doesn't seem to be a valid argument. Maybe they were using baby talk to explain a complex idea? But by simplifying they missed the mark. It could be that this device is working in spite of an imperfect knowledge, by the inventors, of it. Inventors do a huge amount of trial and error steps as they try to perfect their concept. And most are not PhD's in quantum physics. WRT the patent, it is always safer to make the lesser claim. I think that's what they did. In a field as controversial as this, it is the pragmatic thing to do. It could be that the device is working but the reasons given are not the actual ones. It could be because of some unknown reaction. The bottom line to me is the measurements. If the energy output is greater than the energy input then it's working. It is very nice indeed though to know how/why the device is doing what it's doing. It might take a lot of lab analysis to get to that point. I would hope that some top flight lab is doing this kind of work on the Lutec device. (and others, but let's leave them aside). As I implied from my original message, I HOPE the Lutec device is real. I won't bet $1000 on it, for sure! Maybe $1. If it isn't the one we're all waiting for, from what I have read by some very smart people, it is only a matter of time before the Casimir Force and what it represents, really is harnessed, now that it's existence is proven. These physicists subject themselves to the disdain of their peers but nevertheless forge ahead. We should all be thankful that such people exist. In the past, all inventors/researchers of really new technology were ridiculed, some were even jailed or worse. (Big Oil must be very fearful that this technology gets out without their total control of it.) Peace and light, D. Mindock P.S. I don't consider this subject to be spam. It is about energy and that's what biofuel is. - Original Message - From: Michael Nehring [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2005 9:23 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] The Lutec over unity device Hi, I've been on the list for a couple months now, reading happily, but have yet to post anything. So first, hi everyone:-). Internet scams or jokes are among my favorites, just because sometimes they're so funny
RE: [Biofuel] The Lutec over unity device
do I sign..:-) :-) Sign on the cheque Malcolm, in the usual way, don't forget to add the right number of noughts. Best Keith -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Keith Addison Sent: 01 April 2005 20:43 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [Biofuel] The Lutec over unity device Hi Craig Keith, I haven't laughed that hard in the past 74 3/8 hours! Oh well I put a stop payment on my $1,000 check just to get in line to order the 15:1 energy unit! Still looking for that cold fusion guy from RONCO! :-) Great, isn't it? Humans, you gotta love 'em! While you've got your checkbook handy... Never mind the guy from RONCO, I've developed this wonderful technique of producing cold fusion in a Dr Pepper bottle, just add the secret ingredients and shake it 3.5 times... Interested? Keith - Original Message - From: Keith Addisonmailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, April 01, 2005 8:11 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] The Lutec over unity device I see why they call it down under now.Perpetural motion isn't possible on this planet. I think not in this universe.This guy has slid over into another dimension or what? JD2005 Eric Krieg lists 78 free energy scams here, doesn't seem to get into the zero-point stuff and instant cold fusion, so there's all that besides: http://www.phact.org/e/dennis4.htmlhttp://www.phact.org/e/dennis4.html Eric's history of Perpetual Motion and Free Energy Machines Plus: How to become a Free Energy con man http://www.phact.org/e/con_man.htmhttp://www.phact.org/e/con_man.htm And: The Museum of Unworkable Devices http://www.lhup.edu/~dsimanek/museum/unwork.htmhttp://www.lhup.edu/~d simanek/museum/unwork.htm Enjoy! Keith - Original Message - From: D. Mindock To: Undisclosed-Recipient:; Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2005 12:45 AM Subject: [Biofuel] The Lutec over unity device This device (see attached pic) is due for release, starting in Australia where Lutec Pty Ltd is located... ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] The Lutec over unity device
I'll take two! Ah heck, make it a six pack. Okay, Craig, 20% discount on sixpacks, that's $5,000, cheap at half the price. Keith - Original Message - From: Keith Addisonmailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, April 01, 2005 12:42 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] The Lutec over unity device Hi Craig Keith, I haven't laughed that hard in the past 74 3/8 hours! Oh well I put a stop payment on my $1,000 check just to get in line to order the 15:1 energy unit! Still looking for that cold fusion guy from RONCO! :-) Great, isn't it? Humans, you gotta love 'em! While you've got your checkbook handy... Never mind the guy from RONCO, I've developed this wonderful technique of producing cold fusion in a Dr Pepper bottle, just add the secret ingredients and shake it 3.5 times... Interested? Keith - Original Message - From: Keith Addisonmailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] r.org To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]mailt o:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, April 01, 2005 8:11 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] The Lutec over unity device I see why they call it down under now.Perpetural motion isn't possible on this planet. I think not in this universe.This guy has slid over into another dimension or what? JD2005 Eric Krieg lists 78 free energy scams here, doesn't seem to get into the zero-point stuff and instant cold fusion, so there's all that besides: http://www.phact.org/e/dennis4.htmlhttp://www.phact.org/e/dennis4.htm lhttp://www.phact.org/e/dennis4.htmlhttp://www.phact.org/e/dennis4.h tml Eric's history of Perpetual Motion and Free Energy Machines Plus: How to become a Free Energy con man http://www.phact.org/e/con_man.htmhttp://www.phact.org/e/con_man.htm http://www.phact.org/e/con_man.htmhttp://www.phact.org/e/con_man.htm And: The Museum of Unworkable Devices http://www.lhup.edu/~dsimanek/museum/unwork.htmhttp://www.lhup.edu/~ dhttp://www.lhup.edu/~d simanek/museum/unwork.htm Enjoy! Keith - Original Message - From: D. Mindock To: Undisclosed-Recipient:; Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2005 12:45 AM Subject: [Biofuel] The Lutec over unity device This device (see attached pic) is due for release, starting in Australia where Lutec Pty Ltd is located... ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] The Lutec over unity device
Convenience plus, no more black outs, brown outs, interruptions because of line maintenance, lightning strike, heavy rain, strong wind, fire, cyclone, flood, poor maintenance at power stations. Even if it doesnt provide free energy, this suggests that the magnetic fields inside the device somehow shield your property from rain, cyclones, wind and floods, maybe this would be a better marketing angle? Chris.. ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] The Lutec over unity device
over unity is certainly a name that will give Lutec a lot of grief. It's a little like saying the Lutec magic device. Claims about using the Earths EM field for power generation has been around for a while. They are often called Methernitha generators, named after the Swiss society who were one of the first to make the claim. Although I don't understand the principles of the device in question and I find it very difficult to believe, I wonder if there was a similar response to ideas like wireless communications. I understand the laws of thermodynamics and would agree that you can't get something for nothing. But, I just wonder if there is an explaination as to where/what the energy is converted from/to and we haven't heard it yet. Mike --- Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Keith, I'll take two! Ah heck, make it a six pack. Okay, Craig, 20% discount on sixpacks, that's $5,000, cheap at half the price. Keith - Original Message - From: Keith Addisonmailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, April 01, 2005 12:42 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] The Lutec over unity device Hi Craig Keith, I haven't laughed that hard in the past 74 3/8 hours! Oh well I put a stop payment on my $1,000 check just to get in line to order the 15:1 energy unit! Still looking for that cold fusion guy from RONCO! :-) Great, isn't it? Humans, you gotta love 'em! While you've got your checkbook handy... Never mind the guy from RONCO, I've developed this wonderful technique of producing cold fusion in a Dr Pepper bottle, just add the secret ingredients and shake it 3.5 times... Interested? Keith - Original Message - From: Keith Addisonmailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] r.org To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]mailt o:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, April 01, 2005 8:11 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] The Lutec over unity device I see why they call it down under now. Perpetural motion isn't possible on this planet. I think not in this universe.This guy has slid over into another dimension or what? JD2005 Eric Krieg lists 78 free energy scams here, doesn't seem to get into the zero-point stuff and instant cold fusion, so there's all that besides: http://www.phact.org/e/dennis4.htmlhttp://www.phact.org/e/dennis4.htm lhttp://www.phact.org/e/dennis4.htmlhttp://www.phact.org/e/dennis4.h tml Eric's history of Perpetual Motion and Free Energy Machines Plus: How to become a Free Energy con man http://www.phact.org/e/con_man.htmhttp://www.phact.org/e/con_man.htm http://www.phact.org/e/con_man.htmhttp://www.phact.org/e/con_man.htm And: The Museum of Unworkable Devices http://www.lhup.edu/~dsimanek/museum/unwork.htmhttp://www.lhup.edu/~ dhttp://www.lhup.edu/~d simanek/museum/unwork.htm Enjoy! Keith - Original Message - From: D. Mindock To: Undisclosed-Recipient:; Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2005 12:45 AM Subject: [Biofuel] The Lutec over unity device This device (see attached pic) is due for release, starting in Australia where Lutec Pty Ltd is located... ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] The Lutec over unity device
I've developed this wonderful technique of producing cold fusion in a Dr Pepper bottle, just add the secret ingredients and shake it 3.5 times... Interested? Keith Chris Kueny ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) 78 Chevy Custom DeLuxe '85 300TD '02 Subaru Outback ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] The Lutec over unity device
I must say first of all that I was only acting as the bearer of the information. I also did not say that I believed it was real, only that I hoped that it was. Anything wrong with that? If you read the Lutec website you will see that they do not want your money, even if you offered it to them. (My friend Renee has known co-inventor John since the early 80's when he was working on this device. She later lost contact with him when he moved to Santa Cruz. She was surprised, relieved, and very happy to see that John might have finally got the device to work.) Now for Michael's point that no energy is produced since force x distance = energy. I don't know, but if the magnet is counteracting the force of gravity, it seems that something energetic must be doing this. Let's do a mental experiment. Suppose that a steel bearing is precisely balancing the force of gravity so that the bearing is suspended in space. Now let's introduce a very small magnet next to the bigger one that holding the bearing suspended. What will happen? The bearing will rise against the force of gravity until it contacts the magnet. Work was done, obviously. But now the magnet is not doing classical work since the bearing is in contact with it. No movement implies no energy expenditure. Only potential energy remains. The inventors compare this situation to one using an electromagnet. If an electromagnet is used you must pump current through the coil winding to make the magnetic force arise. To hold the bearing in place against the force of gravity you must expend energy to hold the bearing. Energy is used up as the current goes through the windings. The magnet does this for free. That's their argument. Is it sound? Well, if the windings and source had zero resistance, the loss would be zero, and it too would be free. So it doesn't seem to be a valid argument. Maybe they were using baby talk to explain a complex idea? But by simplifying they missed the mark. It could be that this device is working in spite of an imperfect knowledge, by the inventors, of it. Inventors do a huge amount of trial and error steps as they try to perfect their concept. And most are not PhD's in quantum physics. WRT the patent, it is always safer to make the lesser claim. I think that's what they did. In a field as controversial as this, it is the pragmatic thing to do. It could be that the device is working but the reasons given are not the actual ones. It could be because of some unknown reaction. The bottom line to me is the measurements. If the energy output is greater than the energy input then it's working. It is very nice indeed though to know how/why the device is doing what it's doing. It might take a lot of lab analysis to get to that point. I would hope that some top flight lab is doing this kind of work on the Lutec device. (and others, but let's leave them aside). As I implied from my original message, I HOPE the Lutec device is real. I won't bet $1000 on it, for sure! Maybe $1. If it isn't the one we're all waiting for, from what I have read by some very smart people, it is only a matter of time before the Casimir Force and what it represents, really is harnessed, now that it's existence is proven. These physicists subject themselves to the disdain of their peers but nevertheless forge ahead. We should all be thankful that such people exist. In the past, all inventors/researchers of really new technology were ridiculed, some were even jailed or worse. (Big Oil must be very fearful that this technology gets out without their total control of it.) Peace and light, D. Mindock P.S. I don't consider this subject to be spam. It is about energy and that's what biofuel is. - Original Message - From: Michael Nehring [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2005 9:23 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] The Lutec over unity device Hi, I've been on the list for a couple months now, reading happily, but have yet to post anything. So first, hi everyone:-). Internet scams or jokes are among my favorites, just because sometimes they're so funny and sometimes they're just so clever. I have to admit that this is pretty clever. First, there is reference to a US Patent application on their website. After do a little searching, I found a patent (granted) as described by them. US Patent number 6,630,806 viewable at: http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO1Sect2=HITOFFd=PALLp=1u=/netahtml/srchnum.htmr=1f=Gl=50s1=6,630,806.WKU.OS=PN/6,630,806RS=PN/6,630,806 (Here one can note the inefficiency of the US patent office, since the website address includes the patent number 3 times, where one time would have sufficed). However, the patent is not for an unlimited energy machine, but rather [t]he present invention is aimed at providing an improved rotary device which operates with improved efficiency compared to conventional rotary devices. So it seems they just invented a smoother motor
Re: [Biofuel] The Lutec over unity device
on this planet. I think not in this universe.This guy has slid over into another dimension or what? JD2005 Eric Krieg lists 78 free energy scams here, doesn't seem to get into the zero-point stuff and instant cold fusion, so there's all that besides: http://www.phact.org/e/dennis4.html Eric's history of Perpetual Motion and Free Energy Machines Plus: How to become a Free Energy con man http://www.phact.org/e/con_man.htm And: The Museum of Unworkable Devices http://www.lhup.edu/~dsimanek/museum/unwork.htm Enjoy! Keith - Original Message - From: D. Mindock To: Undisclosed-Recipient:; Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2005 12:45 AM Subject: [Biofuel] The Lutec over unity device This device (see attached pic) is due for release, starting in Australia where Lutec Pty Ltd is located... ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] The Lutec over unity device
Keith, I haven't laughed that hard in the past 74 3/8 hours! Oh well I put a stop payment on my $1,000 check just to get in line to order the 15:1 energy unit! Still looking for that cold fusion guy from RONCO! - Original Message - From: Keith Addisonmailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, April 01, 2005 8:11 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] The Lutec over unity device I see why they call it down under now.Perpetural motion isn't possible on this planet. I think not in this universe.This guy has slid over into another dimension or what? JD2005 Eric Krieg lists 78 free energy scams here, doesn't seem to get into the zero-point stuff and instant cold fusion, so there's all that besides: http://www.phact.org/e/dennis4.htmlhttp://www.phact.org/e/dennis4.html Eric's history of Perpetual Motion and Free Energy Machines Plus: How to become a Free Energy con man http://www.phact.org/e/con_man.htmhttp://www.phact.org/e/con_man.htm And: The Museum of Unworkable Devices http://www.lhup.edu/~dsimanek/museum/unwork.htmhttp://www.lhup.edu/~dsimanek/museum/unwork.htm Enjoy! Keith - Original Message - From: D. Mindock To: Undisclosed-Recipient:; Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2005 12:45 AM Subject: [Biofuel] The Lutec over unity device This device (see attached pic) is due for release, starting in Australia where Lutec Pty Ltd is located... ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED]mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuelhttp://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlhttp://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] The Lutec over unity device
Keith, I haven't laughed that hard in the past 74 3/8 hours! Oh well I put a stop payment on my $1,000 check just to get in line to order the 15:1 energy unit! Still looking for that cold fusion guy from RONCO! :-) Great, isn't it? Humans, you gotta love 'em! While you've got your checkbook handy... Never mind the guy from RONCO, I've developed this wonderful technique of producing cold fusion in a Dr Pepper bottle, just add the secret ingredients and shake it 3.5 times... Interested? Keith - Original Message - From: Keith Addisonmailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, April 01, 2005 8:11 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] The Lutec over unity device I see why they call it down under now.Perpetural motion isn't possible on this planet. I think not in this universe.This guy has slid over into another dimension or what? JD2005 Eric Krieg lists 78 free energy scams here, doesn't seem to get into the zero-point stuff and instant cold fusion, so there's all that besides: http://www.phact.org/e/dennis4.htmlhttp://www.phact.org/e/dennis4.html Eric's history of Perpetual Motion and Free Energy Machines Plus: How to become a Free Energy con man http://www.phact.org/e/con_man.htmhttp://www.phact.org/e/con_man.htm And: The Museum of Unworkable Devices http://www.lhup.edu/~dsimanek/museum/unwork.htmhttp://www.lhup.edu/~d simanek/museum/unwork.htm Enjoy! Keith - Original Message - From: D. Mindock To: Undisclosed-Recipient:; Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2005 12:45 AM Subject: [Biofuel] The Lutec over unity device This device (see attached pic) is due for release, starting in Australia where Lutec Pty Ltd is located... ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
RE: [Biofuel] The Lutec over unity device
Lol, love it...ermI'm a misguided prattI'll subscribe where do I sign..:-) -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Keith Addison Sent: 01 April 2005 20:43 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [Biofuel] The Lutec over unity device Hi Craig Keith, I haven't laughed that hard in the past 74 3/8 hours! Oh well I put a stop payment on my $1,000 check just to get in line to order the 15:1 energy unit! Still looking for that cold fusion guy from RONCO! :-) Great, isn't it? Humans, you gotta love 'em! While you've got your checkbook handy... Never mind the guy from RONCO, I've developed this wonderful technique of producing cold fusion in a Dr Pepper bottle, just add the secret ingredients and shake it 3.5 times... Interested? Keith - Original Message - From: Keith Addisonmailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, April 01, 2005 8:11 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] The Lutec over unity device I see why they call it down under now.Perpetural motion isn't possible on this planet. I think not in this universe.This guy has slid over into another dimension or what? JD2005 Eric Krieg lists 78 free energy scams here, doesn't seem to get into the zero-point stuff and instant cold fusion, so there's all that besides: http://www.phact.org/e/dennis4.htmlhttp://www.phact.org/e/dennis4.html Eric's history of Perpetual Motion and Free Energy Machines Plus: How to become a Free Energy con man http://www.phact.org/e/con_man.htmhttp://www.phact.org/e/con_man.htm And: The Museum of Unworkable Devices http://www.lhup.edu/~dsimanek/museum/unwork.htmhttp://www.lhup.edu/~d simanek/museum/unwork.htm Enjoy! Keith - Original Message - From: D. Mindock To: Undisclosed-Recipient:; Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2005 12:45 AM Subject: [Biofuel] The Lutec over unity device This device (see attached pic) is due for release, starting in Australia where Lutec Pty Ltd is located... ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
[Biofuel] The Lutec over unity device
This device (see attached pic) is due for release, starting in Australia where Lutec Pty Ltd is located, and then to all countries where licensing is completed. This device can furnish the all the electricity needed by the average home and runs on battery power. It produces 15 times more energy than it uses from the battery input. It's installed in the home where it's to be used. See their website at: www.lutec.com.au It appears to be the real deal. Let's hope it is. Peace and light, D. Mindock P.S. It is interesting that the Australian government would not provide any startup help whatsoever. Let's hope nothing stops the release of this new technology. It does seem that every time something like this comes along it is trashed by vested powers. It is not hard to imagine this technology powering cars and trucks, producing zero pollution and unlimited mileage. Attachment converted: Handmade:D. Mindock.vcf 1 (TEXT/TBB6) (000BEC61) ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] The Lutec over unity device
Hi, I've been on the list for a couple months now, reading happily, but have yet to post anything. So first, hi everyone:-). Internet scams or jokes are among my favorites, just because sometimes they're so funny and sometimes they're just so clever. I have to admit that this is pretty clever. First, there is reference to a US Patent application on their website. After do a little searching, I found a patent (granted) as described by them. US Patent number 6,630,806 viewable at: http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO1Sect2=HITOFFd=PALLp=1u=/netahtml/srchnum.htmr=1f=Gl=50s1=6,630,806.WKU.OS=PN/6,630,806RS=PN/6,630,806 (Here one can note the inefficiency of the US patent office, since the website address includes the patent number 3 times, where one time would have sufficed). However, the patent is not for an unlimited energy machine, but rather [t]he present invention is aimed at providing an improved rotary device which operates with improved efficiency compared to conventional rotary devices. So it seems they just invented a smoother motor, perhaps. Basically their claim says that they will extract the stored energy from perminant magnets. I invite those who believe that claim to read: http://phact.org/e/z/freewire.htm The most important point is: Point 1. Under ideal conditions the electrical power output generated when you move a conductor through a magnetic field is exactly equal to the mechanical power input needed to move the conductor. A more complete debunking can be found here: http://www.phact.org/e/z/lutec.pdf So if you happen to be someone who's looking to invest in green projects, don't give these people a cent (or whatever the lowest value of your own currency may be). Just one quote from the second debunking article which I find really good: Where do the inventors think the energy is coming from? Their response to this article claims that a permanent magnet holding up a heavy iron object for a long time is doing work, ie supplying energy. We point out that the formula for work is the force acting multiplied by the distance moved, thus zero movement gives zero energy. Ok, I hope that wasn't all too long. Have a nice day everyone, -Michael - Original Message - From: D. Mindock [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Undisclosed-Recipient:; Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2005 9:45 AM Subject: [Biofuel] The Lutec over unity device This device (see attached pic) is due for release, starting in Australia where Lutec Pty Ltd is located, and then to all countries where licensing is completed. This device can furnish the all the electricity needed by the average home and runs on battery power. It produces 15 times more energy than it uses from the battery input. It's installed in the home where it's to be used. See their website at: www.lutec.com.au It appears to be the real deal. Let's hope it is. Peace and light, D. Mindock P.S. It is interesting that the Australian government would not provide any startup help whatsoever. Let's hope nothing stops the release of this new technology. It does seem that every time something like this comes along it is trashed by vested powers. It is not hard to imagine this technology powering cars and trucks, producing zero pollution and unlimited mileage. ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] The Lutec over unity device
approximately since man first rubbed two sticks together. HE. - Original Message - From: D. Mindock [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Undisclosed-Recipient:; Sent: 31 March, 2005 1:45 AM Subject: [Biofuel] The Lutec over unity device This device (see attached pic) is due for release, starting in Australia where Lutec Pty Ltd is located, and then to all countries where licensing is completed. This device can furnish the all the electricity needed by the average home and runs on battery power. It produces 15 times more energy than it uses from the battery input. It's installed in the home where it's to be used. See their website at: www.lutec.com.au It appears to be the real deal. Let's hope it is. Peace and light, D. Mindock P.S. It is interesting that the Australian government would not provide any startup help whatsoever. Let's hope nothing stops the release of this new technology. It does seem that every time something like this comes along it is trashed by vested powers. It is not hard to imagine this technology powering cars and trucks, producing zero pollution and unlimited mileage. ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] The Lutec over unity device
I see why they call it down under now.Perpetural motion isn't possible on this planet. I think not in this universe.This guy has slid over into another dimension or what? JD2005 - Original Message - From: D. Mindock To: Undisclosed-Recipient:; Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2005 12:45 AM Subject: [Biofuel] The Lutec over unity device This device (see attached pic) is due for release, starting in Australia where Lutec Pty Ltd is located... ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
