Re: [Biofuel] What has the world come to
what if their religous leaders said the same thing about us? isn't that what the wahbi's and taliban and AlCIAduh all are preaching? what right do we have to interfere with another countries elected leaders. It's THEIR OIL they can CHOOSE to not sell us any if they want to. These people think they can just keep on stealing other peoples resources so we can feed this consumber monster we have created. they TRULY believe it's God's will to do this. like the Teliban did when they blew up the Bhudist statues. religous jihadist judeo christian islamic all the same mel -Original Message- From: Clif Caldwell [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thu 8/25/2005 11:11 AM To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Cc: Subject: Re: [Biofuel] What has the world come to John Hayes wrote: Is the source for this correct ? It might be good to cite the source if we are going to assasinate not only a living person but also a man's character. If you have the original source for this information then maybe we should post it here to help clear this up. Just a thought... Clif I JUST heard it on NPR! Here's the quote: http://www.sciencedaily.com/upi/?feed=TopNewsarticle=UPI-1-20050823-09170200-bc-us-robertson.xml I to sadly have heard the quote out of his own mouth. I have also heard his contrite apology. Unfortunately we all say things in the moment we later regret. Two things are true in this world.. There is a God ... And I am not Him. I cannot speak to another man's salvation. It is regretable that men who are called men of God still have some of the old nature in them. Fortunately the process of sanctification is an ongoing process much like our process here to find the perfect method creating good fuel. May Mr. Robertson consider this episode part of his refining. Clif Clif, you're still being an apologist for Robertson. First you question the source and imply that his character is being assassinated, and now, when faced with the statement straight from the horse's mouth, you dissemble and imply that it's really ok because we're all just God's imperfect creatures and it's alright because he said he was sorry. If Robertson is so sorry, why is he blantantly LYING about what he said? I thought christians of his ilk were all about taking personal responsibility? I find any contrite apology rather thin when only *yesterday* he was still claiming he was misinterpreted. Why did he go on the air yesterday and claim he never used the word assassinate when Monday's video clearly shows he did? Refining my ass. The man is a lying hypocrite and you know it. jh August 24, 2005 Robertson Apologizes but Says He Was 'Misinterpreted' By LAURIE GOODSTEIN The Christian broadcaster Pat Robertson issued a statement today apologizing for his televised remarks calling for the assassination of Venezuelan President Hugo Chávez. Is it right to call for assassination? he said in the statement. No, and I apologize for that statement. I spoke in frustration that we should accommodate the man who thinks the U.S. is out to kill him. But Mr. Robertson was far from apologetic on his television show today, instead insisting that he had been been misinterpreted by The Associated Press and that he had never used the word assassination. I said our special forces should 'take him out.' 'Take him out' could be a number of things, including kidnapping, Mr. Robertson told his audience on the show The 700 Club today. The video from Monday's telecast, easily available on the internet, shows Mr. Robertson saying of the Venezuelan president: If he thinks we're trying to assassinate him, I think that we really ought to go ahead and do it. It's a whole lot cheaper than starting a war, and I don't think any oil shipments will stop. Mr. Robertson went on at length about Mr. Chávez, suggesting that covert operatives could do the job and then get it over with. Political and religious leaders continued to denounce Mr. Robertson today. The World Evangelical Alliance issued a statement saying, Robertson does not speak for evangelical Christians. We believe in justice and the protection of human rights of all people, including the life of President Chavez. On Tuesday, Mr
Re: [Biofuel] What has the world come to
There is no way to peace; peace is the way. (Ghandi) By this he is saying that we must simply BE in peace. And that means being non judgmental and loving - toward all creatures... At the end of the day it comes down to love and respect and forgiveness. Love and respect your neighbor Love and respect the Earth and its creatures Love and respect yourself Peace Stephan -Original Message- From: Mel Riser [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Mel Riser Sent: 30 August 2005 11:45 To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: RE: [Biofuel] What has the world come to what if their religous leaders said the same thing about us? isn't that what the wahbi's and taliban and AlCIAduh all are preaching? what right do we have to interfere with another countries elected leaders. It's THEIR OIL they can CHOOSE to not sell us any if they want to. These people think they can just keep on stealing other peoples resources so we can feed this consumber monster we have created. they TRULY believe it's God's will to do this. like the Teliban did when they blew up the Bhudist statues. religous jihadist judeo christian islamic all the same mel -Original Message- From: Clif Caldwell [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thu 8/25/2005 11:11 AM To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Cc: Subject: Re: [Biofuel] What has the world come to John Hayes wrote: Is the source for this correct ? It might be good to cite the source if we are going to assasinate not only a living person but also a man's character. If you have the original source for this information then maybe we should post it here to help clear this up. Just a thought... Clif I JUST heard it on NPR! Here's the quote: http://www.sciencedaily.com/upi/?feed=TopNews http://www.sciencedaily.com/upi/?feed=TopNewsarticle=UPI-1-20050823-091702 00-bc-us-robertson.xml article=UPI-1-20050823-09170200-bc-us-robertson.xml I to sadly have heard the quote out of his own mouth. I have also heard his contrite apology. Unfortunately we all say things in the moment we later regret. Two things are true in this world.. There is a God ... And I am not Him. I cannot speak to another man's salvation. It is regretable that men who are called men of God still have some of the old nature in them. Fortunately the process of sanctification is an ongoing process much like our process here to find the perfect method creating good fuel. May Mr. Robertson consider this episode part of his refining. Clif Clif, you're still being an apologist for Robertson. First you question the source and imply that his character is being assassinated, and now, when faced with the statement straight from the horse's mouth, you dissemble and imply that it's really ok because we're all just God's imperfect creatures and it's alright because he said he was sorry. If Robertson is so sorry, why is he blantantly LYING about what he said? I thought christians of his ilk were all about taking personal responsibility? I find any contrite apology rather thin when only *yesterday* he was still claiming he was misinterpreted. Why did he go on the air yesterday and claim he never used the word assassinate when Monday's video clearly shows he did? Refining my ass. The man is a lying hypocrite and you know it. jh August 24, 2005 Robertson Apologizes but Says He Was 'Misinterpreted' By LAURIE GOODSTEIN The Christian broadcaster Pat Robertson issued a statement today apologizing for his televised remarks calling for the assassination of Venezuelan President Hugo Chávez. Is it right to call for assassination? he said in the statement. No, and I apologize for that statement. I spoke in frustration that we should accommodate the man who thinks the U.S. is out to kill him. But Mr. Robertson was far from apologetic on his television show today, instead insisting that he had been been misinterpreted by The Associated Press and that he had never used the word assassination. I said our special forces should 'take him out.' 'Take him out' could be a number of things, including kidnapping, Mr. Robertson told his audience on the show The 700 Club today. The video from Monday's telecast, easily available on the internet, shows Mr. Robertson saying of the Venezuelan president: If he thinks we're trying to assassinate him, I think that we really ought to go ahead and do it. It's a whole lot cheaper than starting a war, and I don't think any oil shipments will stop. Mr. Robertson went on at length about Mr. Chávez, suggesting that covert operatives could do the job and then get it over with. Political and religious leaders continued to denounce Mr. Robertson today. The World Evangelical Alliance issued a statement saying, Robertson does not speak for evangelical Christians. We believe in justice and the protection of human rights of all people, including the life of President Chavez. On Tuesday, Mr. Robertson's comments were denounced by both the State Department
Re: [Biofuel] What has the world come to
Is the source for this correct ? It might be good to cite the source if we are going to assasinate not only a living person but also a man's character. If you have the original source for this information then maybe we should post it here to help clear this up. Just a thought... Clif I JUST heard it on NPR! Here's the quote: http://www.sciencedaily.com/upi/?feed=TopNewsarticle=UPI-1-20050823-09170200-bc-us-robertson.xml I to sadly have heard the quote out of his own mouth. I have also heard his contrite apology. Unfortunately we all say things in the moment we later regret. Two things are true in this world.. There is a God ... And I am not Him. I cannot speak to another man's salvation. It is regretable that men who are called men of God still have some of the old nature in them. Fortunately the process of sanctification is an ongoing process much like our process here to find the perfect method creating good fuel. May Mr. Robertson consider this episode part of his refining. Clif Clif, you're still being an apologist for Robertson. First you question the source and imply that his character is being assassinated, and now, when faced with the statement straight from the horse's mouth, you dissemble and imply that it's really ok because we're all just God's imperfect creatures and it's alright because he said he was sorry. If Robertson is so sorry, why is he blantantly LYING about what he said? I thought christians of his ilk were all about taking personal responsibility? I find any contrite apology rather thin when only *yesterday* he was still claiming he was misinterpreted. Why did he go on the air yesterday and claim he never used the word assassinate when Monday's video clearly shows he did? Refining my ass. The man is a lying hypocrite and you know it. jh August 24, 2005 Robertson Apologizes but Says He Was 'Misinterpreted' By LAURIE GOODSTEIN The Christian broadcaster Pat Robertson issued a statement today apologizing for his televised remarks calling for the assassination of Venezuelan President Hugo Chávez. Is it right to call for assassination? he said in the statement. No, and I apologize for that statement. I spoke in frustration that we should accommodate the man who thinks the U.S. is out to kill him. But Mr. Robertson was far from apologetic on his television show today, instead insisting that he had been been misinterpreted by The Associated Press and that he had never used the word assassination. I said our special forces should 'take him out.' 'Take him out' could be a number of things, including kidnapping, Mr. Robertson told his audience on the show The 700 Club today. The video from Monday's telecast, easily available on the internet, shows Mr. Robertson saying of the Venezuelan president: If he thinks we're trying to assassinate him, I think that we really ought to go ahead and do it. It's a whole lot cheaper than starting a war, and I don't think any oil shipments will stop. Mr. Robertson went on at length about Mr. Chávez, suggesting that covert operatives could do the job and then get it over with. Political and religious leaders continued to denounce Mr. Robertson today. The World Evangelical Alliance issued a statement saying, Robertson does not speak for evangelical Christians. We believe in justice and the protection of human rights of all people, including the life of President Chavez. On Tuesday, Mr. Robertson's comments were denounced by both the State Department and by Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld. In Caracas, Mr. Robertson was criticized by the vice president of Venezuela, and in Havana by President Fidel Castro. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] What has the world come to
Clif Caldwell wrote: I to sadly have heard the quote out of his own mouth. Then you should be able to tell the tree by its fruit! This is not the first time Pat Robertson has inserted his foot into his rather large mouth. I have also heard his contrite apology. Here's what he said: Is it right to call for assassination? Robertson said. No, and I apologize for that statement. I spoke in frustration that we should accommodate the man who thinks the U.S. is out to kill him. But initially, he claimed this: I didn't say 'assassination.' I said our special forces should 'take him out,' Robertson said on his show. This is qualitatively different? Besides, what is a man who is supposed to be leading people to Jesus Christ doing in the political realm in the first place? Jesus himself said: My kingdom is not of this world. But people like Pat Robertson use the cloak of religion to promote a political agenda, legislate morality and gain political power. This is hardly Christlike. Two things are true in this world.. There is a God ... And I am not Him. I cannot speak to another man's salvation. So you're saying that because we cannot effectively judge another man's salvation that we should accept the antichristian sentiments of Pat Robertson as meritorious? It is regretable that men who are called men of God still have some of the old nature in them. All of us do. However, how much evidence do you need to comprehend that Pat Robertson is NOT a man of God? robert luis rabello The Edge of Justice Adventure for Your Mind http://www.newadventure.ca Ranger Supercharger Project Page http://www.members.shaw.ca/rabello/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] What has the world come to
John Hayes wrote: Is the source for this correct ? It might be good to cite the source if we are going to assasinate not only a living person but also a man's character. If you have the original source for this information then maybe we should post it here to help clear this up. Just a thought... Clif I JUST heard it on NPR! Here's the quote: http://www.sciencedaily.com/upi/?feed=TopNewsarticle=UPI-1-20050823-09170200-bc-us-robertson.xml I to sadly have heard the quote out of his own mouth. I have also heard his contrite apology. Unfortunately we all say things in the moment we later regret. Two things are true in this world.. There is a God ... And I am not Him. I cannot speak to another man's salvation. It is regretable that men who are called men of God still have some of the old nature in them. Fortunately the process of sanctification is an ongoing process much like our process here to find the perfect method creating good fuel. May Mr. Robertson consider this episode part of his refining. Clif Clif, you're still being an apologist for Robertson. First you question the source and imply that his character is being assassinated, and now, when faced with the statement straight from the horse's mouth, you dissemble and imply that it's really ok because we're all just God's imperfect creatures and it's alright because he said he was sorry. If Robertson is so sorry, why is he blantantly LYING about what he said? I thought christians of his ilk were all about taking personal responsibility? I find any contrite apology rather thin when only *yesterday* he was still claiming he was misinterpreted. Why did he go on the air yesterday and claim he never used the word assassinate when Monday's video clearly shows he did? Refining my ass. The man is a lying hypocrite and you know it. jh August 24, 2005 Robertson Apologizes but Says He Was 'Misinterpreted' By LAURIE GOODSTEIN The Christian broadcaster Pat Robertson issued a statement today apologizing for his televised remarks calling for the assassination of Venezuelan President Hugo Chávez. Is it right to call for assassination? he said in the statement. No, and I apologize for that statement. I spoke in frustration that we should accommodate the man who thinks the U.S. is out to kill him. But Mr. Robertson was far from apologetic on his television show today, instead insisting that he had been been misinterpreted by The Associated Press and that he had never used the word assassination. I said our special forces should 'take him out.' 'Take him out' could be a number of things, including kidnapping, Mr. Robertson told his audience on the show The 700 Club today. The video from Monday's telecast, easily available on the internet, shows Mr. Robertson saying of the Venezuelan president: If he thinks we're trying to assassinate him, I think that we really ought to go ahead and do it. It's a whole lot cheaper than starting a war, and I don't think any oil shipments will stop. Mr. Robertson went on at length about Mr. Chávez, suggesting that covert operatives could do the job and then get it over with. Political and religious leaders continued to denounce Mr. Robertson today. The World Evangelical Alliance issued a statement saying, Robertson does not speak for evangelical Christians. We believe in justice and the protection of human rights of all people, including the life of President Chavez. On Tuesday, Mr. Robertson's comments were denounced by both the State Department and by Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld. In Caracas, Mr. Robertson was criticized by the vice president of Venezuela, and in Havana by President Fidel Castro. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ I cannot provide any defense for his statements nor can I dispute the validity of your (jh) statements and assessment. Perhaps I have made so many mistakes personally that I am just slightly slower to pick up rocks than I used to be. Anyway I am not an apologist for anyone, especially a grown man with an audience the size of Pat Robertson. If I sound like that then I apologize :). As far as questioning the source that is just something I have learned over the years when reading something for the first time on the internet. I've found this attitude keeps me from making too many errors in judgment. I do recall something from a book I recently read: Be hard on the mistake and easy on the person. Maybe I should reexamine that statement in light of all of this. Just so you know jh I'll continue to strive to be slow to pick up a rock What a good list. And to think I was trying to
Re: [Biofuel] What has the world come to
robert luis rabello wrote: Clif Caldwell wrote: I to sadly have heard the quote out of his own mouth. Then you should be able to tell the tree by its fruit! This is not the first time Pat Robertson has inserted his foot into his rather large mouth. I have also heard his contrite apology. Here's what he said: Is it right to call for assassination? Robertson said. No, and I apologize for that statement. I spoke in frustration that we should accommodate the man who thinks the U.S. is out to kill him. But initially, he claimed this: I didn't say 'assassination.' I said our special forces should 'take him out,' Robertson said on his show. This is qualitatively different? Besides, what is a man who is supposed to be leading people to Jesus Christ doing in the political realm in the first place? Jesus himself said: My kingdom is not of this world. But people like Pat Robertson use the cloak of religion to promote a political agenda, legislate morality and gain political power. This is hardly Christlike. Two things are true in this world.. There is a God ... And I am not Him. I cannot speak to another man's salvation. So you're saying that because we cannot effectively judge another man's salvation that we should accept the antichristian sentiments of Pat Robertson as meritorious? It is regretable that men who are called men of God still have some of the old nature in them. All of us do. However, how much evidence do you need to comprehend that Pat Robertson is NOT a man of God? robert luis rabello The Edge of Justice Adventure for Your Mind http://www.newadventure.ca Ranger Supercharger Project Page http://www.members.shaw.ca/rabello/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ Point taken Whether or not I trust Pat Robertson has nothing to do with my reticence to question his relationship with his creator. Unfortunately I failed Deity 101 in school and therefore am unlikely to ever assume that role. Thanks for the input. With humbled and no hard feelings regards, Clif ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] What has the world come to
Clif Caldwell wrote: Point taken Whether or not I trust Pat Robertson has nothing to do with my reticence to question his relationship with his creator. Unfortunately I failed Deity 101 in school and therefore am unlikely to ever assume that role. They offer that class somewhere? : - ) Thanks for the input. You're welcome. I've been around here for a LONG time now, so if I seem strident it's only because we've dealt with the wolf in sheep's clothing type of warmongering Christian perspective many times in the past. It is fundamentally no different than the Muslim variety of extremism, and fundamentally non-Christian. With humbled and no hard feelings regards, Perhaps you are more comfortable in extending grace to others than I. Somehow, I hope you will find a kind of home here. The biofuels list represents a very diverse cross section of people, and I have a tendency to draw conclusions about another person's intent faster than I should. I sense in this case that I have misjudged you. I regret this and ask your forgiveness. robert luis rabello The Edge of Justice Adventure for Your Mind http://www.newadventure.ca Ranger Supercharger Project Page http://www.members.shaw.ca/rabello/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] What has the world come to
http://www.counterpunch.com/jacobs08252005.html August 24, 2005 Who Would Jesus Assassinate? Hugo Chavez and the Men Who Claim to Speak for Jesus By RON JACOBS You know, when I was growing up as a Catholic, I was given many differing views of Jesus Christ. Virtually all of them were speculative, of course, and as I grew older, I became aware that most of them were based on the teacher's particular political and cultural persuasion. The Pallotinian nuns that taught me in the first and second grades were always telling us horror stories about the communists in the Soviet Union and China and had us pray for the souls of their children every morning. The Jesuits I knew in high school provided me and my fellow catechism students with a different view of Jesus. Indeed, for most of these men Jesus was a revolutionary. How much of his revolution was spiritual and how much was social depended on their level of social and political involvement. Being a very political person, I saw Jesus as a revolutionary communist with a small c. Of course, there were a number of men with Roman collars at the time who were taking this perception and turning it into the basis for a social movement in many parts of the world, especially in Latin America. Many of them were Jesuits. It is this tradition that Hugo Chavez of Venezuela recalls in his speeches and social programs. It is also this tradition, known today as liberation theology that the late pope John Paul II attacked within months of his appointment in 1978. John Paul II's opposition to this perception of Jesus and his works were also part of the reason for the demotion of the Jesuit order as the pope's protectors and the ascension of the right wing Catholic organization Opus Dei into that role. The new pope is even less sympathetic to this train of thought. The underlying reason for this vehement opposition to liberation theology among the Catholic hierarchy stems from its alliances with nonreligious leftists and its attacks on the Church's role as part of the oppressive structure in the world of the peasantry. Nowhere is this role greater than it is in Latin America. Ever since Chavez began his popular upheaval in Venezuela he has been under attack by the Catholic hierarchy in that country. In fact, members of Opus Dei were involved in the failed coup of 2000 and have been instrumental in the CIA-funded opposition movement since the coup, just as they were intimately involved in the murderous CIA-sponsored coup in September 1973 in Chile. Last month, Bishop Baltazar Porras, president of the Venezuelan bishops' conference, said proponents of radical liberation theology are using it to weaken and divide the Church. This is part of a plan to debilitate the Church, Porras told The Associated Press in an interview last week. He cited a recent forum in which the Church was accused of turning her back on the poor, where Chavez garners most of his political support. This is a new program led by a group of theologians like the ones in the times of the Sandinista rule in Nicaragua with the same arguments, said Porras. The argument is fundamentally anti-Catholic, anti-hierarchy. (Catholic World New, 8/15/2005) It is quite interesting to note Porras equating being anti-hierarchy with being anti-Catholic. I wonder how the Jesus who threw the moneychangers out of the temple and challenged the Scribes and the Pharisees would feel about that equation. Now, in addition to having the Catholic hierarchy opposed to him, Mr. Chavez has incurred the wrath of some in the evangelical community. Given the generally political conservatism of much of this community, this is not surprising. What is surprising, however, is the vehemence of this wrath. Pat Robertson, former US presidential candidate and head of the multimillion-dollar Christian Broadcast Network, called for Chavez's assassination in a broadcast Monday night. Calling assassination a whole lot cheaper than starting a war Robertson went on to say that if Chavez were killed by US covert operatives he didn't think any oil shipments will stop. Of course, for those who keep their religion close to their heart or use it only when necessary to cynically convince the public of the rightness of their actions, the comments regarding oil must strike a chord. After all, that's the underlying reason for Washington's (and the old guard in Venezuela) opposition to Chavez in the first place. Not only does he using Venezuelan oil revenues to help the perennially poor in Venezuela, he is also selling it to Cuba at cut rates and making deals with China, much to the chagrin of Washington. Chavez and his supporters understand this. In addition, they also understand the Jesus who inspired Father Gutierrez and his liberation theology. That was the Jesus who said: It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven.
Re: [Biofuel] What has the world come to
Clif, Plenty of sources have now been quoted above, but I will add my thanks for being the voice of reason and calling for a source. I'm not speaking for anyone but myself when I say this, but I was simply having too much fun! Personally, I don't consider it an attack on Robertson's character because that implies that he had one to begin with. Too me, he's just another televangelist with his hand always out and eager to accept your free-will offering!On 8/23/05, Clif Caldwell [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:robert luis rabello wrote:bob allen wrote: Quite a prolife christian, huh. I've read somewhere that Many who are insincere will join them . . . You can tell the REAL ones from the pretenders by how closely they follow the one they claim to love.robert luis rabelloThe Edge of JusticeAdventure for Your Mindhttp://www.newadventure.ca Ranger Supercharger Project Pagehttp://www.members.shaw.ca/rabello/___ Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/Is the source for this correct ? It might be good to cite the source if we are going to assasinate not only a living person but also a man'scharacter. If you have the original source for this information thenmaybe we should post it here to help clear this up.Just a thought... Clif___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ -- Mike KAntiFossilMN, USAThe genius of our ruling class is that it has kept a majority of the people from ever questioning the inequity of a system where most people drudge along, paying heavy taxes for which they get nothing in return: Gore Vidal For in reason, all government without the consent of the governed is the very definition of slavery:Jonathan SwiftQuotes from Information Clearing House ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] What has the world come to
robert luis rabello wrote: Clif Caldwell wrote: Is the source for this correct ? It might be good to cite the source if we are going to assasinate not only a living person but also a man's character. If you have the original source for this information then maybe we should post it here to help clear this up. Just a thought... Clif I JUST heard it on NPR! Here's the quote: http://www.sciencedaily.com/upi/?feed=TopNewsarticle=UPI-1-20050823-09170200-bc-us-robertson.xml I've read the entire New Testament from beginning to end, and nowhere do I find admonitions to murder people we don't like, or whose policies we do not approve. Pat Robertson is conclusively demonstrating who he is REALLY following . . . That man is no Christian. robert luis rabello The Edge of Justice Adventure for Your Mind http://www.newadventure.ca Ranger Supercharger Project Page http://www.members.shaw.ca/rabello/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ I to sadly have heard the quote out of his own mouth. I have also heard his contrite apology. Unfortunately we all say things in the moment we later regret. Two things are true in this world.. There is a God ... And I am not Him. I cannot speak to another man's salvation. It is regretable that men who are called men of God still have some of the old nature in them. Fortunately the process of sanctification is an ongoing process much like our process here to find the perfect method creating good fuel. May Mr. Robertson consider this episode part of his refining. Clif ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
[Biofuel] What has the world come to
Hi All, I just read where the great Pat Robertson leading his flock on the 700 Club has suggested that the U.S. should assassinate President Hugo Chavez of Venezuela. I'm mean really when supposedly religious men advocate murder I'm just completely disgusted. BTW the "reasoning" behind this is that Chavez is a dicator (though democratically elected by a large majority) is a communist ( has spoken to Fidel Castro)and has Islamic terrorist connections (he's catholic). Does any of this sound familar? Tom Irwin ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] What has the world come to
Quite a prolife christian, huh. Tom Irwin wrote: Hi All, I just read where the great Pat Robertson leading his flock on the 700 Club has suggested that the U.S. should assassinate President Hugo Chavez of Venezuela. I'm mean really when supposedly religious men advocate murder I'm just completely disgusted. BTW the reasoning behind this is that Chavez is a dicator (though democratically elected by a large majority) is a communist ( has spoken to Fidel Castro) and has Islamic terrorist connections (he's catholic). Does any of this sound familar? Tom Irwin ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ -- Bob Allen http://ozarker.org/bob Science is what we have learned about how to keep from fooling ourselves — Richard Feynman ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] What has the world come to
bob allen wrote: Quite a prolife christian, huh. I've read somewhere that Many who are insincere will join them . . . You can tell the REAL ones from the pretenders by how closely they follow the one they claim to love. robert luis rabello The Edge of Justice Adventure for Your Mind http://www.newadventure.ca Ranger Supercharger Project Page http://www.members.shaw.ca/rabello/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] What has the world come to
robert luis rabello wrote: bob allen wrote: Quite a prolife christian, huh. I've read somewhere that Many who are insincere will join them . . . You can tell the REAL ones from the pretenders by how closely they follow the one they claim to love. robert luis rabello The Edge of Justice Adventure for Your Mind http://www.newadventure.ca Ranger Supercharger Project Page http://www.members.shaw.ca/rabello/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ Is the source for this correct ? It might be good to cite the source if we are going to assasinate not only a living person but also a man's character. If you have the original source for this information then maybe we should post it here to help clear this up. Just a thought... Clif ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] What has the world come to
Clif Caldwell wrote: Is the source for this correct ? It might be good to cite the source if we are going to assasinate not only a living person but also a man's character. If you have the original source for this information then maybe we should post it here to help clear this up. Just a thought... Clif I JUST heard it on NPR! Here's the quote: http://www.sciencedaily.com/upi/?feed=TopNewsarticle=UPI-1-20050823-09170200-bc-us-robertson.xml I've read the entire New Testament from beginning to end, and nowhere do I find admonitions to murder people we don't like, or whose policies we do not approve. Pat Robertson is conclusively demonstrating who he is REALLY following . . . That man is no Christian. robert luis rabello The Edge of Justice Adventure for Your Mind http://www.newadventure.ca Ranger Supercharger Project Page http://www.members.shaw.ca/rabello/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] What has the world come to
robert luis rabello wrote: bob allen wrote: Quite a prolife christian, huh. I've read somewhere that Many who are insincere will join them . . . You can tell the REAL ones from the pretenders by how closely they follow the one they claim to love. robert luis rabello The Edge of Justice Adventure for Your Mind http://www.newadventure.ca Ranger Supercharger Project Page http://www.members.shaw.ca/rabello/ Is the source for this correct ? It might be good to cite the source if we are going to assasinate not only a living person but also a man's character. I think he did that himself already, long before this. If you have the original source for this information then maybe we should post it here to help clear this up. Just a thought... Clif Pat Robertson Says US Should Kill Venezuela's Chavez, AP Says http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=1086sid=aHRr2Ul10eC0refer =latin_america Or: http://snipurl.com/h5tp Pat Robertson calls for Chavez's assassination http://www.japantoday.com/e/?content=newscat=8id=347057 Pat Robertson calls for assassination of Hugo Chavez http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2005-08-22-robertson-_x.htm US preacher Pat Robertson calls upon the USA to kill President ... http://english.pravda.ru/world/20/91/368/16029_Chavez.html Pat Robertson Needs To Update His Website http://thinkprogress.org/2005/08/23/robertson-update/ Life has become more and more cheap in the society we live in. But God says you shall not murder. - Pat Robertson Keith ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] What has the world come to
Sorry about that, It was also on both CNN and Yahoo. I'm wondering if those statements are a violation of the Patriot Act. Tom Irwin From: robert luis rabello [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.orgSent: Tue, 23 Aug 2005 12:36:15 -0300Subject: Re: [Biofuel] What has the world come toClif Caldwell wrote: Is the source for this correct ? It might be good to cite the source if we are going to assasinate not only a living person but also a man's character. If you have the original source for this information then maybe we should post it here to help clear this up. Just a thought... ClifI JUST heard it on NPR!Here's the quote:http://www.sciencedaily.com/upi/?feed=TopNewsarticle=UPI-1-20050823-09170200-bc-us-robertson.xmlI've read the entire New Testament from beginning to end, and nowhere do I find admonitions to murder people we don't like, or whose policies we do not approve. Pat Robertson is conclusively demonstrating who he is REALLY following . . .That man is no Christian.robert luis rabello"The Edge of Justice"Adventure for Your Mindhttp://www.newadventure.caRanger Supercharger Project Pagehttp://www.members.shaw.ca/rabello/___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] What has the world come to
Sorry about that, It was also on both CNN and Yahoo. I'm wondering if those statements are a violation of the Patriot Act. Surely it's only applied from one side and not the other? If Chavez had called for Robertson's assassination, for instance (if Chavez were a US citizen that is), but a good ol' boy like Robertson can surely do no wrong. Do you think the crazed neocon sith lord traitors who've done so much to wreck America and everything else in the last four years could end up getting flushed down the tubes by their very own Patriot Act? That would raise chuckles for the rest of history. Best Keith Tom Irwin From: robert luis rabello [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Tue, 23 Aug 2005 12:36:15 -0300 Subject: Re: [Biofuel] What has the world come to Clif Caldwell wrote: Is the source for this correct ? It might be good to cite the source if we are going to assasinate not only a living person but also a man's character. If you have the original source for this information then maybe we should post it here to help clear this up. Just a thought... Clif I JUST heard it on NPR! Here's the quote: http://www.sciencedaily.com/upi/?feed=TopNewsarticle=UPI-1-20050823 -09170200-bc-us-robertson.xmlhttp://www.sciencedaily.com/upi/?feed=To pNewsarticle=UPI-1-20050823-09170200-bc-us-robertson.xml I've read the entire New Testament from beginning to end, and nowhere do I find admonitions to murder people we don't like, or whose policies we do not approve. Pat Robertson is conclusively demonstrating who he is REALLY following . . . That man is no Christian. robert luis rabello The Edge of Justice Adventure for Your Mind http://www.newadventure.ca/http://www.newadventure.ca Ranger Supercharger Project Page http://www.members.shaw.ca/rabello/http://www.members.shaw.ca/rabello/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] What has the world come to
Yes, Unbelievable, huh? I heard this on NPR this morning and then read the story online (it was picked up by the AP) http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20050823/ap_on_re_us/ robertson_assassination This guy (I'm being nice) ran for president as a Republican, in 1988. I just don't think his (lack of) morals and right wing rationale are very different from GW Bush. Some say they are good friends. He endorsed GH Bush in '88 and is a huge fan of Ronald Reagan's policies. According to Wikipedia, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pat_Robertson He is a Southern Baptist and was an ordained minister with that denomination for many years, but holds to a Pentecostal theology Their M.O. is something like Judge, judge, punish, judge punish, ignore our hippocracy...In my first-hand experience, (I'm from South Carolina) pentecostals pick and choose the parts of the Bible that they take literally... One of the beauties of our US first amendment guarantee to free speech is that loonies and crackpots like Pat Robertson are more than happy to hang themselves in public by opening their mouths. All this right-wing talk of 'taking out' President Chavez couldn't have anything to do with his plans to increase state control over the oil industry, could it? i.e. nationalizing oil would decrease profits for big US oil corporations... http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/1713761.stm What mental hospital let this Robertson out too early? Does US nothave the money to treat their basket cases in proper facilities? Hakan-- Thanks,PCHe's the kind of a guy who lights up a room just by flicking a switch ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] What has the world come to
Clif, You are correct in insisting on source verification when reporting anything as serious as the report that evangelist and religious broadcaster Pat Robertson called for the assassination of Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez. That's serious stuff. Today I found the following verifying documentation: Source: The Oregonian, p.A8, Tues, Aug 23, 2005, under the byline of THE ASSOCIATED PRESS, Robertson, referring to Chavez, is quoted as follows, 'You know, I don't know about this doctrine of assassination, but if he thinks we're trying to assassinate him, I think we really ought to go ahead and do it,' ...'We have the ability to take him out, and I think the time has come that we exercise that ability,' Robertson said. Best, Bob Adams - Original Message - From: Clif Caldwell [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Tuesday, August 23, 2005 7:25 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] What has the world come to robert luis rabello wrote: bob allen wrote: Quite a prolife christian, huh. I've read somewhere that Many who are insincere will join them . . . You can tell the REAL ones from the pretenders by how closely they follow the one they claim to love. robert luis rabello The Edge of Justice Adventure for Your Mind http://www.newadventure.ca Ranger Supercharger Project Page http://www.members.shaw.ca/rabello/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ Is the source for this correct ? It might be good to cite the source if we are going to assasinate not only a living person but also a man's character. If you have the original source for this information then maybe we should post it here to help clear this up. Just a thought... Clif ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
