Re: [Tagging] When was the deprecation of location=kiosk for power=substation discussed?

2018-04-26 Thread Andrew Davidson 

https://www.ausgrid.com.au/Common/Customer-Services/In-your-neighbourhood/Network-projects/Kiosks-and-pillars/Kiosk-substations.aspx

Still wouldn't recommend the use of the word.

On 27/4/18 08:23, Warin wrote:

The use of the word 'kiosk' may be a jargon use within the power industry?
Or it could be that the size is similar to a normal 'kiosk'?
Maybe the original user could provide some information as to the true 
source?


On 26/04/18 20:33, nwastra wrote:
Australians also know a kiosk as a small selling booth for small 
articles e.g. newspapers, sweets, drinks often found on central city 
railway stations.


N

On 26 Apr 2018, at 8:22 pm, James > wrote:



@Peter, Same here in Canada. No one calls a substation a kiosk here

On Thu, Apr 26, 2018, 6:16 AM Peter Elderson, > wrote:


    Looks like it's australian, to call a power substation a power
    kiosk. It converts the high voltage to low voltage and
    distributes power to households. Just 'kiosk' is confusing to me.
    Dutch: kiosk=small selling booth for small articles e.g.
    newspapers, sweets, drinks. Mainly found on railway stations.

    2018-04-26 11:56 GMT+02:00 John Sturdy mailto:jcg.stu...@gmail.com>>:

    To me, as a native British-English speaker, "kiosk" doesn't
    seem to be the right word for these.  A kiosk is normally
    something that *is* large enough for a person to enter
    (typically, someone selling something through a hatch).

    __John


    On Wed, Apr 25, 2018 at 8:53 PM, José G Moya Y.
    mailto:josem...@gmail.com>> wrote:

    It was François Lacombe on this list 9n Jan 2, 2018.
    El mié., 3 de enero de 2018 0:14, François Lacombe
    mailto:fl.infosrese...@gmail.com>> escribió:

    Hi,

    Regarding this location=kiosk topic, a discussion was
    opened on talk page of power=substation key.

https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Talk:Tag:power%3Dsubstation#Kiosk_substations_in_street_cabinets 



    Since no big issue has been raised, I've updated
    mentionned wiki pages (with French version when
    available) with man_made=street_cabinet.

https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:power%3Dtransformer#Location_values 


    https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:location

https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:substation%3Dminor_distribution

https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:power%3Dsubstation#Location

https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:man_made%3Dstreet_cabinet


    location=kiosk is not a recommended value anymore and
    it's encouraged to replace it manually and carefully
    with man_made=street_cabinet + street_cabinet=power

    location key can now be used everytime to give the
    right substation/transformer's location, in cabinet
    or not.
    We can have underground or indoor cabinets like this :
    man_made=street_cabinet
    street_cabinet=power
    power=substation
    substation=minor_distribution
    location=underground or indoor or ...

    All the best

    François

    2017-11-04 11:45 GMT+01:00 François Lacombe
    mailto:fl.infosrese...@gmail.com>>:

    Hi

    The man_made=street_cabinet key sounds suitable
    to map items described with power=substation +
    location=kiosk.
    They are actual small cabinets like those where
    no technician can enter to work (opposite of
    building) :

https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/File:10kV_trafo_kiosk.jpg


    Street cabinet is the container while substation
    is the function.

    Wiki example on this page gives follwing tags:

https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:power%3Dsubstation#Examples

    power=substation
    substation=minor_distribution
    location=kiosk

    I propose to update it as such :
    man_made=street_cabinet
    street_cabinet=power
    power=substation
    substation=minor_distribution
    location=pavement (or wherever the cabinet is
    located)

    It works both for nodes or areas.
    Additionnal advantage is to get location=* back
    to give cabinet position instead of substation
    design (there was issues to tag underground
    kiosks for instance)
    There are 7k objec

Re: [Tagging] When was the deprecation of location=kiosk for power=substation discussed?

2018-04-26 Thread Warin 

The use of the word 'kiosk' may be a jargon use within the power industry?
Or it could be that the size is similar to a normal 'kiosk'?
Maybe the original user could provide some information as to the true 
source?


On 26/04/18 20:33, nwastra wrote:
Australians also know a kiosk as a small selling booth for small 
articles e.g. newspapers, sweets, drinks often found on central city 
railway stations.


N

On 26 Apr 2018, at 8:22 pm, James > wrote:



@Peter, Same here in Canada. No one calls a substation a kiosk here

On Thu, Apr 26, 2018, 6:16 AM Peter Elderson, > wrote:


Looks like it's australian, to call a power substation a power
kiosk. It converts the high voltage to low voltage and
distributes power to households. Just 'kiosk' is confusing to me.
Dutch: kiosk=small selling booth for small articles e.g.
newspapers, sweets, drinks. Mainly found on railway stations.

2018-04-26 11:56 GMT+02:00 John Sturdy mailto:jcg.stu...@gmail.com>>:

To me, as a native British-English speaker, "kiosk" doesn't
seem to be the right word for these.  A kiosk is normally
something that *is* large enough for a person to enter
(typically, someone selling something through a hatch).

__John


On Wed, Apr 25, 2018 at 8:53 PM, José G Moya Y.
mailto:josem...@gmail.com>> wrote:

It was François Lacombe on this list 9n Jan 2, 2018.
El mié., 3 de enero de 2018 0:14, François Lacombe
mailto:fl.infosrese...@gmail.com>> escribió:

Hi,

Regarding this location=kiosk topic, a discussion was
opened on talk page of power=substation key.

https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Talk:Tag:power%3Dsubstation#Kiosk_substations_in_street_cabinets

Since no big issue has been raised, I've updated
mentionned wiki pages (with French version when
available) with man_made=street_cabinet.

https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:power%3Dtransformer#Location_values
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:location

https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:substation%3Dminor_distribution

https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:power%3Dsubstation#Location

https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:man_made%3Dstreet_cabinet

location=kiosk is not a recommended value anymore and
it's encouraged to replace it manually and carefully
with man_made=street_cabinet + street_cabinet=power

location key can now be used everytime to give the
right substation/transformer's location, in cabinet
or not.
We can have underground or indoor cabinets like this :
man_made=street_cabinet
street_cabinet=power
power=substation
substation=minor_distribution
location=underground or indoor or ...

All the best

François

2017-11-04 11:45 GMT+01:00 François Lacombe
mailto:fl.infosrese...@gmail.com>>:

Hi

The man_made=street_cabinet key sounds suitable
to map items described with power=substation +
location=kiosk.
They are actual small cabinets like those where
no technician can enter to work (opposite of
building) :

https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/File:10kV_trafo_kiosk.jpg

Street cabinet is the container while substation
is the function.

Wiki example on this page gives follwing tags:

https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:power%3Dsubstation#Examples
power=substation
substation=minor_distribution
location=kiosk

I propose to update it as such :
man_made=street_cabinet
street_cabinet=power
power=substation
substation=minor_distribution
location=pavement (or wherever the cabinet is
located)

It works both for nodes or areas.
Additionnal advantage is to get location=* back
to give cabinet position instead of substation
design (there was issues to tag underground
kiosks for instance)
There are 7k objects in db:
https://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/tags/location=kiosk

Pages to update are :

https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:power%3Dtransformer#Location_value

Re: [Tagging] When was the deprecation of location=kiosk for power=substation discussed?

2018-04-26 Thread marc marc 
imho it's a building
it'sn't need that the technician can really go in depending on the 
volume of material inside, the tag building concerns the apaprence (if I 
fill my garage to the point where I can no longer go in, it still 
remains a building=garage)

Le 26. 04. 18 à 13:06, Marc Gemis a écrit :
> what about this type:
> https://xian.smugmug.com/OSM/OSM-2018/2018-02-04-Ursel-Knesselare/i-RG4KSmn/A
>   ?
> 
> they are pretty common in Belgium.
> I have no idea whether the technician can enter should a "building" or not ?
> 
> m
> 
> On Thu, Apr 26, 2018 at 12:23 PM, François Lacombe
>  wrote:
>> HI
>>
>> 2018-04-25 21:30 GMT+02:00 Michael Reichert :
>>>
>>> I think that small substations are not street cabinets because they are
>>> much larger than street cabinets and are usually not located on the
>>> sidewalk but next to it on a separate area.
>>
>>
>> Main difference between buildings and cabinets (street or not) is that
>> technicians can enter in a building but not in a cabinet.
>> man_made=street_cabinet was mainly intended for cabinets located in streets
>> (not necessairly on sidewalks) but can actually cover cabinets in private
>> areas.
>>
>> location=kiosk raises terminology questions and prevent to give the actual
>> location of the cabinet when a substation is in it.
>> That's why using man_made=street_cabinet is more consistent with local
>> distribution substations not installed in a proper building.
>>
>> This is one of such for example :
>> https://www.google.fr/maps/@45.8095526,6.209416,3a,38.7y,76.67h,76.47t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sU25e1MIwSgn9hE0L-hjw8Q!2e0!7i13312!8i6656
>>
>>
>> All the best
>>
>> François
>>
>>
>> ___
>> Tagging mailing list
>> Tagging@openstreetmap.org
>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
>>
> 
> ___
> Tagging mailing list
> Tagging@openstreetmap.org
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
> 

___
Tagging mailing list
Tagging@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging

Re: [Tagging] When was the deprecation of location=kiosk for power=substation discussed?

2018-04-26 Thread Marc Gemis 
what about this type:
https://xian.smugmug.com/OSM/OSM-2018/2018-02-04-Ursel-Knesselare/i-RG4KSmn/A
 ?

they are pretty common in Belgium.
I have no idea whether the technician can enter should a "building" or not ?

m

On Thu, Apr 26, 2018 at 12:23 PM, François Lacombe
 wrote:
> HI
>
> 2018-04-25 21:30 GMT+02:00 Michael Reichert :
>>
>> I think that small substations are not street cabinets because they are
>> much larger than street cabinets and are usually not located on the
>> sidewalk but next to it on a separate area.
>
>
> Main difference between buildings and cabinets (street or not) is that
> technicians can enter in a building but not in a cabinet.
> man_made=street_cabinet was mainly intended for cabinets located in streets
> (not necessairly on sidewalks) but can actually cover cabinets in private
> areas.
>
> location=kiosk raises terminology questions and prevent to give the actual
> location of the cabinet when a substation is in it.
> That's why using man_made=street_cabinet is more consistent with local
> distribution substations not installed in a proper building.
>
> This is one of such for example :
> https://www.google.fr/maps/@45.8095526,6.209416,3a,38.7y,76.67h,76.47t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sU25e1MIwSgn9hE0L-hjw8Q!2e0!7i13312!8i6656
>
>
> All the best
>
> François
>
>
> ___
> Tagging mailing list
> Tagging@openstreetmap.org
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
>

___
Tagging mailing list
Tagging@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging

Re: [Tagging] When was the deprecation of location=kiosk for power=substation discussed?

2018-04-26 Thread Christian Müller 
> 2018-04-26 03:23 PDT -07:00 François Lacombe :
> 
> location=kiosk raises terminology questions and prevent to give
> the actual location of the cabinet when a substation is in it.
> That's why using man_made=street_cabinet is more consistent with
> local distribution substations not installed in a proper building.

If street_cabinet is used to tag substations in kiosk format (which
usually is considerably larger than a street cabinet), then it will
loose its value in discrimnating "core" street cabinet objects.

Substations are attributed kiosk if they almost share size or volume
with a legacy kiosk that sells stuff - often not in height, but in
length + width.  Admittedly, the location key may not be the best
place to put a dimension-describing value in.

Kiosk substations may have space to house a technician, but inner
equipment may fill the space to the point that there is not much
room behind the panel doors.

Because they often lack entrances for humans and the roof commonly
is undistinguishable from its walls (spare its location), it may
feel strange to some to speak of them as buildings.


Greetings


___
Tagging mailing list
Tagging@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging

Re: [Tagging] When was the deprecation of location=kiosk for power=substation discussed?

2018-04-26 Thread ael 
On Thu, Apr 26, 2018 at 10:56:55AM +0100, John Sturdy wrote:
> To me, as a native British-English speaker, "kiosk" doesn't seem to be the
> right word for these.  A kiosk is normally something that *is* large enough
> for a person to enter (typically, someone selling something through a
> hatch).

+1

ael


___
Tagging mailing list
Tagging@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging

Re: [Tagging] When was the deprecation of location=kiosk for power=substation discussed?

2018-04-26 Thread nwastra 
Australians also know a kiosk as a small selling booth for small articles e.g. 
newspapers, sweets, drinks often found on central city railway stations.

N

> On 26 Apr 2018, at 8:22 pm, James  wrote:
> 
> @Peter, Same here in Canada. No one calls a substation a kiosk here
> 
>> On Thu, Apr 26, 2018, 6:16 AM Peter Elderson,  wrote:
>> Looks like it's australian, to call a power substation a power kiosk. It 
>> converts the high voltage to low voltage and distributes power to 
>> households. Just 'kiosk' is confusing to me. 
>> Dutch: kiosk=small selling booth for small articles e.g. newspapers, sweets, 
>> drinks. Mainly found on railway stations.
>> 
>> 2018-04-26 11:56 GMT+02:00 John Sturdy :
>>> To me, as a native British-English speaker, "kiosk" doesn't seem to be the 
>>> right word for these.  A kiosk is normally something that *is* large enough 
>>> for a person to enter (typically, someone selling something through a 
>>> hatch).
>>> 
>>> __John
>>> 
>>> 
 On Wed, Apr 25, 2018 at 8:53 PM, José G Moya Y.  wrote:
 It was François Lacombe on this list 9n Jan 2, 2018.
 El mié., 3 de enero de 2018 0:14, François Lacombe 
  escribió:
 Hi,
 
 Regarding this location=kiosk topic, a discussion was opened on talk page 
 of power=substation key.
 https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Talk:Tag:power%3Dsubstation#Kiosk_substations_in_street_cabinets
 
 Since no big issue has been raised, I've updated mentionned wiki pages 
 (with French version when available) with man_made=street_cabinet.
 https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:power%3Dtransformer#Location_values
 https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:location
 https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:substation%3Dminor_distribution
 https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:power%3Dsubstation#Location
 https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:man_made%3Dstreet_cabinet
 
 location=kiosk is not a recommended value anymore and it's encouraged to 
 replace it manually and carefully with man_made=street_cabinet + 
 street_cabinet=power
 
 location key can now be used everytime to give the right 
 substation/transformer's location, in cabinet or not.
 We can have underground or indoor cabinets like this : 
 man_made=street_cabinet
 street_cabinet=power
 power=substation
 substation=minor_distribution
 location=underground or indoor or ...
 
 All the best
 
 François
 
 2017-11-04 11:45 GMT+01:00 François Lacombe :
 Hi
 
 The man_made=street_cabinet key sounds suitable to map items described 
 with power=substation + location=kiosk.
 They are actual small cabinets like those where no technician can enter to 
 work (opposite of building) : 
 https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/File:10kV_trafo_kiosk.jpg
 
 Street cabinet is the container while substation is the function. 
 
 Wiki example on this page gives follwing tags:
 https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:power%3Dsubstation#Examples
 power=substation
 substation=minor_distribution 
 location=kiosk
 
 I propose to update it as such :
 man_made=street_cabinet
 street_cabinet=power
 power=substation
 substation=minor_distribution
 location=pavement (or wherever the cabinet is located)
 
 It works both for nodes or areas.
 Additionnal advantage is to get location=* back to give cabinet position 
 instead of substation design (there was issues to tag underground kiosks 
 for instance) 
 There are 7k objects in db:
 https://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/tags/location=kiosk
 
 Pages to update are :
 https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:power%3Dtransformer#Location_values
 https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:location
 https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:substation%3Dminor_distribution
 https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:power%3Dsubstation#Location
 https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:man_made%3Dstreet_cabinet
 
 How do you feel about it ?
 
 There are no need of a time consuming formal proposal to deal with this 
 question.
 Without further coments, i will update wiki pages in 15 days.
 No automated edits.
 
 Thanks for your time
 
 François
 
 
 ___
 Tagging mailing list
 Tagging@openstreetmap.org
 https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
 
 El mié., 25 de abril de 2018 21:32, Michael Reichert 
  escribió:
> Hi,
> 
> while adding a substation to OSM yesterday I looked up the possible
> values of location=* and missed kiosk. A short glance in the history
> showes that it removed location=kiosk from the page on 2018-01-02. The
> edit description mentions man_made=street_cabinet+street_cabinet=power
> as a replacement.
> 
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/w/index

Re: [Tagging] When was the deprecation of location=kiosk for power=substation discussed?

2018-04-26 Thread François Lacombe 
HI

2018-04-25 21:30 GMT+02:00 Michael Reichert :

> I think that small substations are not street cabinets because they are
> much larger than street cabinets and are usually not located on the
> sidewalk but next to it on a separate area.
>

Main difference between buildings and cabinets (street or not) is that
technicians can enter in a building but not in a cabinet.
man_made=street_cabinet was mainly intended for cabinets located in streets
(not necessairly on sidewalks) but can actually cover cabinets in private
areas.

location=kiosk raises terminology questions and prevent to give the actual
location of the cabinet when a substation is in it.
That's why using man_made=street_cabinet is more consistent with local
distribution substations not installed in a proper building.

This is one of such for example :
https://www.google.fr/maps/@45.8095526,6.209416,3a,38.7y,76.67h,76.47t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sU25e1MIwSgn9hE0L-hjw8Q!2e0!7i13312!8i6656


All the best

François
___
Tagging mailing list
Tagging@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging

Re: [Tagging] When was the deprecation of location=kiosk for power=substation discussed?

2018-04-26 Thread marc marc 
if the "cabinet" is large enough for a person to enter,
it's better to use building=*
a cabinet only host hardware, it isn't git enought to allow a person to 
enter.
in both case location=kiosk is imho wrong.


Le 26. 04. 18 à 12:14, Peter Elderson a écrit :
> Looks like it's australian, to call a power substation a power kiosk. It 
> converts the high voltage to low voltage and distributes power to 
> households. Just 'kiosk' is confusing to me.
> Dutch: kiosk=small selling booth for small articles e.g. newspapers, 
> sweets, drinks. Mainly found on railway stations.
> 
> 2018-04-26 11:56 GMT+02:00 John Sturdy  >:
> 
> To me, as a native British-English speaker, "kiosk" doesn't seem to
> be the right word for these.  A kiosk is normally something that
> *is* large enough for a person to enter (typically, someone selling
> something through a hatch).
> 
> __John
> 
> 
> On Wed, Apr 25, 2018 at 8:53 PM, José G Moya Y.  > wrote:
> 
> It was François Lacombe on this list 9n Jan 2, 2018.
> El mié., 3 de enero de 2018 0:14, François Lacombe
> mailto:fl.infosrese...@gmail.com>>
> escribió:
> 
> Hi,
> 
> Regarding this location=kiosk topic, a discussion was opened
> on talk page of power=substation key.
> 
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Talk:Tag:power%3Dsubstation#Kiosk_substations_in_street_cabinets
> 
> 
> 
> Since no big issue has been raised, I've updated mentionned
> wiki pages (with French version when available) with
> man_made=street_cabinet.
> 
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:power%3Dtransformer#Location_values
> 
> 
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:location
> 
> 
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:substation%3Dminor_distribution
> 
> 
> 
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:power%3Dsubstation#Location
> 
> 
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:man_made%3Dstreet_cabinet
> 
> 
> 
> location=kiosk is not a recommended value anymore and it's
> encouraged to replace it manually and carefully with
> man_made=street_cabinet + street_cabinet=power
> 
> location key can now be used everytime to give the right
> substation/transformer's location, in cabinet or not.
> We can have underground or indoor cabinets like this :
> man_made=street_cabinet
> street_cabinet=power
> power=substation
> substation=minor_distribution
> location=underground or indoor or ...
> 
> All the best
> 
> François
> 
> 2017-11-04 11:45 GMT+01:00 François Lacombe
> mailto:fl.infosrese...@gmail.com>>:
> 
> Hi
> 
> The man_made=street_cabinet key sounds suitable to map
> items described with power=substation + location=kiosk.
> They are actual small cabinets like those where no
> technician can enter to work (opposite of building) :
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/File:10kV_trafo_kiosk.jpg
> 
> 
> 
> Street cabinet is the container while substation is the
> function.
> 
> Wiki example on this page gives follwing tags:
> 
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:power%3Dsubstation#Examples
> 
> 
> power=substation
> substation=minor_distribution
> location=kiosk
> 
> I propose to update it as such :
> man_made=street_cabinet
> street_cabinet=power
> power=substation
> substation=minor_distribution
> location=pavement (or wherever the cabinet is located)
> 
> It works both for nodes or areas.
> Additionnal advantage is to get location=* back to give
> cabinet position instead of substation design (there was
> issues to tag underground kiosks for instance)
> There are 7k objects in db:
> https://taginfo.openst

Re: [Tagging] When was the deprecation of location=kiosk for power=substation discussed?

2018-04-26 Thread James 
@Peter, Same here in Canada. No one calls a substation a kiosk here

On Thu, Apr 26, 2018, 6:16 AM Peter Elderson,  wrote:

> Looks like it's australian, to call a power substation a power kiosk. It
> converts the high voltage to low voltage and distributes power to
> households. Just 'kiosk' is confusing to me.
> Dutch: kiosk=small selling booth for small articles e.g. newspapers,
> sweets, drinks. Mainly found on railway stations.
>
> 2018-04-26 11:56 GMT+02:00 John Sturdy :
>
>> To me, as a native British-English speaker, "kiosk" doesn't seem to be
>> the right word for these.  A kiosk is normally something that *is* large
>> enough for a person to enter (typically, someone selling something through
>> a hatch).
>>
>> __John
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Apr 25, 2018 at 8:53 PM, José G Moya Y. 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> It was François Lacombe on this list 9n Jan 2, 2018.
>>> El mié., 3 de enero de 2018 0:14, François Lacombe <
>>> fl.infosrese...@gmail.com> escribió:
>>>
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> Regarding this location=kiosk topic, a discussion was opened on talk
>>> page of power=substation key.
>>>
>>> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Talk:Tag:power%3Dsubstation#Kiosk_substations_in_street_cabinets
>>>
>>> Since no big issue has been raised, I've updated mentionned wiki pages
>>> (with French version when available) with man_made=street_cabinet.
>>>
>>> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:power%3Dtransformer#Location_values
>>> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:location
>>> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:substation%3Dminor_distribution
>>> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:power%3Dsubstation#Location
>>> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:man_made%3Dstreet_cabinet
>>>
>>> location=kiosk is not a recommended value anymore and it's encouraged to
>>> replace it manually and carefully with man_made=street_cabinet +
>>> street_cabinet=power
>>>
>>> location key can now be used everytime to give the right
>>> substation/transformer's location, in cabinet or not.
>>> We can have underground or indoor cabinets like this :
>>> man_made=street_cabinet
>>> street_cabinet=power
>>> power=substation
>>> substation=minor_distribution
>>> location=underground or indoor or ...
>>>
>>> All the best
>>>
>>> François
>>>
>>> 2017-11-04 11:45 GMT+01:00 François Lacombe :
>>>
>>> Hi
>>>
>>> The man_made=street_cabinet key sounds suitable to map items described
>>> with power=substation + location=kiosk.
>>> They are actual small cabinets like those where no technician can enter
>>> to work (opposite of building) :
>>> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/File:10kV_trafo_kiosk.jpg
>>>
>>> Street cabinet is the container while substation is the function.
>>>
>>> Wiki example on this page gives follwing tags:
>>> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:power%3Dsubstation#Examples
>>> power=substation
>>> substation=minor_distribution
>>> location=kiosk
>>>
>>> I propose to update it as such :
>>> man_made=street_cabinet
>>> street_cabinet=power
>>> power=substation
>>> substation=minor_distribution
>>> location=pavement (or wherever the cabinet is located)
>>>
>>> It works both for nodes or areas.
>>> Additionnal advantage is to get location=* back to give cabinet position
>>> instead of substation design (there was issues to tag underground kiosks
>>> for instance)
>>> There are 7k objects in db:
>>> https://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/tags/location=kiosk
>>>
>>> Pages to update are :
>>>
>>> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:power%3Dtransformer#Location_values
>>> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:location
>>> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:substation%3Dminor_distribution
>>> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:power%3Dsubstation#Location
>>> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:man_made%3Dstreet_cabinet
>>>
>>> How do you feel about it ?
>>>
>>> There are no need of a time consuming formal proposal to deal with this
>>> question.
>>> Without further coments, i will update wiki pages in 15 days.
>>> No automated edits.
>>>
>>> Thanks for your time
>>>
>>> François
>>>
>>>
>>> ___
>>> Tagging mailing list
>>> Tagging@openstreetmap.org
>>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
>>>
>>>
>>> El mié., 25 de abril de 2018 21:32, Michael Reichert <
>>> osm...@michreichert.de> escribió:
>>>
 Hi,

 while adding a substation to OSM yesterday I looked up the possible
 values of location=* and missed kiosk. A short glance in the history
 showes that it removed location=kiosk from the page on 2018-01-02. The
 edit description mentions man_made=street_cabinet+street_cabinet=power
 as a replacement.


 https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/w/index.php?title=Tag:power%3Dsubstation&oldid=1542685

 location=kiosk was introduced by the approved Substation Refinement
 Proposal in 2013.

 https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/Substation_refinement#Substation

 man_made=street_cabinet was

Re: [Tagging] When was the deprecation of location=kiosk for power=substation discussed?

2018-04-26 Thread Peter Elderson 
Looks like it's australian, to call a power substation a power kiosk. It
converts the high voltage to low voltage and distributes power to
households. Just 'kiosk' is confusing to me.
Dutch: kiosk=small selling booth for small articles e.g. newspapers,
sweets, drinks. Mainly found on railway stations.

2018-04-26 11:56 GMT+02:00 John Sturdy :

> To me, as a native British-English speaker, "kiosk" doesn't seem to be the
> right word for these.  A kiosk is normally something that *is* large enough
> for a person to enter (typically, someone selling something through a
> hatch).
>
> __John
>
>
> On Wed, Apr 25, 2018 at 8:53 PM, José G Moya Y. 
> wrote:
>
>> It was François Lacombe on this list 9n Jan 2, 2018.
>> El mié., 3 de enero de 2018 0:14, François Lacombe <
>> fl.infosrese...@gmail.com> escribió:
>>
>> Hi,
>>
>> Regarding this location=kiosk topic, a discussion was opened on talk page
>> of power=substation key.
>> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Talk:Tag:power%3Dsubstat
>> ion#Kiosk_substations_in_street_cabinets
>>
>> Since no big issue has been raised, I've updated mentionned wiki pages
>> (with French version when available) with man_made=street_cabinet.
>> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:power%3Dtransformer#
>> Location_values
>> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:location
>> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:substation%3Dminor_distribution
>> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:power%3Dsubstation#Location
>> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:man_made%3Dstreet_cabinet
>>
>> location=kiosk is not a recommended value anymore and it's encouraged to
>> replace it manually and carefully with man_made=street_cabinet +
>> street_cabinet=power
>>
>> location key can now be used everytime to give the right
>> substation/transformer's location, in cabinet or not.
>> We can have underground or indoor cabinets like this :
>> man_made=street_cabinet
>> street_cabinet=power
>> power=substation
>> substation=minor_distribution
>> location=underground or indoor or ...
>>
>> All the best
>>
>> François
>>
>> 2017-11-04 11:45 GMT+01:00 François Lacombe :
>>
>> Hi
>>
>> The man_made=street_cabinet key sounds suitable to map items described
>> with power=substation + location=kiosk.
>> They are actual small cabinets like those where no technician can enter
>> to work (opposite of building) : https://wiki.openstreetmap.o
>> rg/wiki/File:10kV_trafo_kiosk.jpg
>>
>> Street cabinet is the container while substation is the function.
>>
>> Wiki example on this page gives follwing tags:
>> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:power%3Dsubstation#Examples
>> power=substation
>> substation=minor_distribution
>> location=kiosk
>>
>> I propose to update it as such :
>> man_made=street_cabinet
>> street_cabinet=power
>> power=substation
>> substation=minor_distribution
>> location=pavement (or wherever the cabinet is located)
>>
>> It works both for nodes or areas.
>> Additionnal advantage is to get location=* back to give cabinet position
>> instead of substation design (there was issues to tag underground kiosks
>> for instance)
>> There are 7k objects in db:
>> https://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/tags/location=kiosk
>>
>> Pages to update are :
>> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:power%3Dtransformer#
>> Location_values
>> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:location
>> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:substation%3Dminor_distribution
>> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:power%3Dsubstation#Location
>> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:man_made%3Dstreet_cabinet
>>
>> How do you feel about it ?
>>
>> There are no need of a time consuming formal proposal to deal with this
>> question.
>> Without further coments, i will update wiki pages in 15 days.
>> No automated edits.
>>
>> Thanks for your time
>>
>> François
>>
>>
>> ___
>> Tagging mailing list
>> Tagging@openstreetmap.org
>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
>>
>>
>> El mié., 25 de abril de 2018 21:32, Michael Reichert <
>> osm...@michreichert.de> escribió:
>>
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> while adding a substation to OSM yesterday I looked up the possible
>>> values of location=* and missed kiosk. A short glance in the history
>>> showes that it removed location=kiosk from the page on 2018-01-02. The
>>> edit description mentions man_made=street_cabinet+street_cabinet=power
>>> as a replacement.
>>>
>>> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/w/index.php?title=Tag:power%
>>> 3Dsubstation&oldid=1542685
>>>
>>> location=kiosk was introduced by the approved Substation Refinement
>>> Proposal in 2013.
>>> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/Substa
>>> tion_refinement#Substation
>>>
>>> man_made=street_cabinet was introduced by the Street Cabinet Proposal in
>>> 2014.
>>> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/Street_cabinet
>>> This proposal does not mention substations or transformers at all.
>>>
>>> I think that small substations are not street cabi

Re: [Tagging] When was the deprecation of location=kiosk for power=substation discussed?

2018-04-26 Thread John Sturdy 
To me, as a native British-English speaker, "kiosk" doesn't seem to be the
right word for these.  A kiosk is normally something that *is* large enough
for a person to enter (typically, someone selling something through a
hatch).

__John


On Wed, Apr 25, 2018 at 8:53 PM, José G Moya Y.  wrote:

> It was François Lacombe on this list 9n Jan 2, 2018.
> El mié., 3 de enero de 2018 0:14, François Lacombe <
> fl.infosrese...@gmail.com> escribió:
>
> Hi,
>
> Regarding this location=kiosk topic, a discussion was opened on talk page
> of power=substation key.
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Talk:Tag:power%3Dsubstation#Kiosk_
> substations_in_street_cabinets
>
> Since no big issue has been raised, I've updated mentionned wiki pages
> (with French version when available) with man_made=street_cabinet.
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:power%
> 3Dtransformer#Location_values
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:location
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:substation%3Dminor_distribution
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:power%3Dsubstation#Location
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:man_made%3Dstreet_cabinet
>
> location=kiosk is not a recommended value anymore and it's encouraged to
> replace it manually and carefully with man_made=street_cabinet +
> street_cabinet=power
>
> location key can now be used everytime to give the right
> substation/transformer's location, in cabinet or not.
> We can have underground or indoor cabinets like this :
> man_made=street_cabinet
> street_cabinet=power
> power=substation
> substation=minor_distribution
> location=underground or indoor or ...
>
> All the best
>
> François
>
> 2017-11-04 11:45 GMT+01:00 François Lacombe :
>
> Hi
>
> The man_made=street_cabinet key sounds suitable to map items described
> with power=substation + location=kiosk.
> They are actual small cabinets like those where no technician can enter to
> work (opposite of building) : https://wiki.openstreetmap.
> org/wiki/File:10kV_trafo_kiosk.jpg
>
> Street cabinet is the container while substation is the function.
>
> Wiki example on this page gives follwing tags:
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:power%3Dsubstation#Examples
> power=substation
> substation=minor_distribution
> location=kiosk
>
> I propose to update it as such :
> man_made=street_cabinet
> street_cabinet=power
> power=substation
> substation=minor_distribution
> location=pavement (or wherever the cabinet is located)
>
> It works both for nodes or areas.
> Additionnal advantage is to get location=* back to give cabinet position
> instead of substation design (there was issues to tag underground kiosks
> for instance)
> There are 7k objects in db:
> https://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/tags/location=kiosk
>
> Pages to update are :
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:power%
> 3Dtransformer#Location_values
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:location
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:substation%3Dminor_distribution
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:power%3Dsubstation#Location
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:man_made%3Dstreet_cabinet
>
> How do you feel about it ?
>
> There are no need of a time consuming formal proposal to deal with this
> question.
> Without further coments, i will update wiki pages in 15 days.
> No automated edits.
>
> Thanks for your time
>
> François
>
>
> ___
> Tagging mailing list
> Tagging@openstreetmap.org
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
>
>
> El mié., 25 de abril de 2018 21:32, Michael Reichert <
> osm...@michreichert.de> escribió:
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> while adding a substation to OSM yesterday I looked up the possible
>> values of location=* and missed kiosk. A short glance in the history
>> showes that it removed location=kiosk from the page on 2018-01-02. The
>> edit description mentions man_made=street_cabinet+street_cabinet=power
>> as a replacement.
>>
>> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/w/index.php?title=Tag:
>> power%3Dsubstation&oldid=1542685
>>
>> location=kiosk was introduced by the approved Substation Refinement
>> Proposal in 2013.
>> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/
>> Substation_refinement#Substation
>>
>> man_made=street_cabinet was introduced by the Street Cabinet Proposal in
>> 2014.
>> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/Street_cabinet
>> This proposal does not mention substations or transformers at all.
>>
>> I think that small substations are not street cabinets because they are
>> much larger than street cabinets and are usually not located on the
>> sidewalk but next to it on a separate area.
>>
>> I don't remember a discussion of this change, do you? If no, I propose
>> to revert this change on the wiki.
>>
>> Best regards
>>
>> Michael
>>
>>
>> --
>> Per E-Mail kommuniziere ich bevorzugt GPG-verschlüsselt. (Mailinglisten
>> ausgenommen)
>> I prefer GPG encryption of emails. (does not apply on mailing lists)
>>
>> ___

Re: [Tagging] When was the deprecation of location=kiosk for power=substation discussed?

2018-04-25 Thread José G Moya Y . 
It was François Lacombe on this list 9n Jan 2, 2018.
El mié., 3 de enero de 2018 0:14, François Lacombe <
fl.infosrese...@gmail.com> escribió:

Hi,

Regarding this location=kiosk topic, a discussion was opened on talk page
of power=substation key.
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Talk:Tag:power%3Dsubstation#Kiosk_substations_in_street_cabinets

Since no big issue has been raised, I've updated mentionned wiki pages
(with French version when available) with man_made=street_cabinet.
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:power%3Dtransformer#Location_values
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:location
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:substation%3Dminor_distribution
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:power%3Dsubstation#Location
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:man_made%3Dstreet_cabinet

location=kiosk is not a recommended value anymore and it's encouraged to
replace it manually and carefully with man_made=street_cabinet +
street_cabinet=power

location key can now be used everytime to give the right
substation/transformer's location, in cabinet or not.
We can have underground or indoor cabinets like this :
man_made=street_cabinet
street_cabinet=power
power=substation
substation=minor_distribution
location=underground or indoor or ...

All the best

François

2017-11-04 11:45 GMT+01:00 François Lacombe :

Hi

The man_made=street_cabinet key sounds suitable to map items described with
power=substation + location=kiosk.
They are actual small cabinets like those where no technician can enter to
work (opposite of building) :
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/File:10kV_trafo_kiosk.jpg

Street cabinet is the container while substation is the function.

Wiki example on this page gives follwing tags:
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:power%3Dsubstation#Examples
power=substation
substation=minor_distribution
location=kiosk

I propose to update it as such :
man_made=street_cabinet
street_cabinet=power
power=substation
substation=minor_distribution
location=pavement (or wherever the cabinet is located)

It works both for nodes or areas.
Additionnal advantage is to get location=* back to give cabinet position
instead of substation design (there was issues to tag underground kiosks
for instance)
There are 7k objects in db:
https://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/tags/location=kiosk

Pages to update are :
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:power%3Dtransformer#Location_values
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:location
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:substation%3Dminor_distribution
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:power%3Dsubstation#Location
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:man_made%3Dstreet_cabinet

How do you feel about it ?

There are no need of a time consuming formal proposal to deal with this
question.
Without further coments, i will update wiki pages in 15 days.
No automated edits.

Thanks for your time

François


___
Tagging mailing list
Tagging@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging


El mié., 25 de abril de 2018 21:32, Michael Reichert 
escribió:

> Hi,
>
> while adding a substation to OSM yesterday I looked up the possible
> values of location=* and missed kiosk. A short glance in the history
> showes that it removed location=kiosk from the page on 2018-01-02. The
> edit description mentions man_made=street_cabinet+street_cabinet=power
> as a replacement.
>
>
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/w/index.php?title=Tag:power%3Dsubstation&oldid=1542685
>
> location=kiosk was introduced by the approved Substation Refinement
> Proposal in 2013.
>
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/Substation_refinement#Substation
>
> man_made=street_cabinet was introduced by the Street Cabinet Proposal in
> 2014.
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/Street_cabinet
> This proposal does not mention substations or transformers at all.
>
> I think that small substations are not street cabinets because they are
> much larger than street cabinets and are usually not located on the
> sidewalk but next to it on a separate area.
>
> I don't remember a discussion of this change, do you? If no, I propose
> to revert this change on the wiki.
>
> Best regards
>
> Michael
>
>
> --
> Per E-Mail kommuniziere ich bevorzugt GPG-verschlüsselt. (Mailinglisten
> ausgenommen)
> I prefer GPG encryption of emails. (does not apply on mailing lists)
>
> ___
> Tagging mailing list
> Tagging@openstreetmap.org
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
>
___
Tagging mailing list
Tagging@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging

[Tagging] When was the deprecation of location=kiosk for power=substation discussed?

2018-04-25 Thread Michael Reichert 
Hi,

while adding a substation to OSM yesterday I looked up the possible
values of location=* and missed kiosk. A short glance in the history
showes that it removed location=kiosk from the page on 2018-01-02. The
edit description mentions man_made=street_cabinet+street_cabinet=power
as a replacement.

https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/w/index.php?title=Tag:power%3Dsubstation&oldid=1542685

location=kiosk was introduced by the approved Substation Refinement
Proposal in 2013.
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/Substation_refinement#Substation

man_made=street_cabinet was introduced by the Street Cabinet Proposal in
2014.
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/Street_cabinet
This proposal does not mention substations or transformers at all.

I think that small substations are not street cabinets because they are
much larger than street cabinets and are usually not located on the
sidewalk but next to it on a separate area.

I don't remember a discussion of this change, do you? If no, I propose
to revert this change on the wiki.

Best regards

Michael


-- 
Per E-Mail kommuniziere ich bevorzugt GPG-verschlüsselt. (Mailinglisten
ausgenommen)
I prefer GPG encryption of emails. (does not apply on mailing lists)



signature.asc
Description: OpenPGP digital signature
___
Tagging mailing list
Tagging@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging