RE: contacting Doug.

[Dennis Long via Talk]

As Joseph said it's Jaws 2018.  One thing that was very briefly touched on  in 
the latest FS cast was document scanning in Jaws2018 that is all I know.

-Original Message-
From: Russ Kiehne [mailto:russ94...@gmail.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, August 23, 2017 9:43 AM
To: 'Window-Eyes Discussion List'
Cc: Dennis Long
Subject: Re: contacting Doug.

I  wonder what new features  jaws 19 will offer in October?

-Original Message- 
From: Dennis Long via Talk
Sent: Tuesday, August 22, 2017 9:15 PM
To: 'Window-Eyes Discussion List'
Cc: Dennis Long
Subject: RE: contacting Doug.

Jaws2018 as it will be called will be important to see what WE features 
might be in the next version.  I suggested a few to the company  we'll have 
to see if and what  gets implemented.

-Original Message-
From: Talk [mailto:talk-bounces+dennisl1982=gmail@lists.window-eyes.com] 
On Behalf Of Nick Sarames via Talk
Sent: Tuesday, August 22, 2017 9:11 PM
To: Window-Eyes Discussion List
Cc: Nick Sarames
Subject: Re: contacting Doug.

I am realmly unclear as to what VFO has done since the acquisition.
Forget about what they did before the "mehrger (that's no longer
relevant).  While it would be nice for VFO to continue with  production
of WE, thus selling two "competing" screen readers, it's likely not a
good business decision, and whether we like it or not, Jaws is more
popular, which logistically makes more sense.

On 8/22/2017 2:07 PM, Darrell Bowles via Talk wrote:
> I agree.  VFo doesn't seem like a family, more like  an evil captain of a 
> pirate ship driving his slave crew to the bitter end.
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Talk [mailto:talk-boun...@lists.window-eyes.com] On Behalf Of Loy 
> via Talk
> Sent: Tuesday, August 22, 2017 2:04 PM
> To: bjn...@windstream.net; Window-Eyes Discussion List 
> <talk@lists.window-eyes.com>
> Cc: Loy <loyrg2...@gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: contacting Doug.
>
> When I heard the head at AISquared speak at the time of the merger, I did 
> not like him, I could since he was not being totally honest about the 
> future of WE and AISquared.
>- Original Message -
>From: Brenda via Talk
>To: Butch Bussen via Talk
>    Cc: Brenda
>Sent: Tuesday, August 22, 2017 12:59 PM
>Subject: Re: contacting Doug.
>
>
>I too was hopeful the AI Squared merge would be good for Window-eyes.
>but, the merge was lopsided and seems more like a sale as GW had no 
> more
>control.
>
>I always thought AI Squared was directed by VFO to bring them
>Window-eyes as VFO didn't absorb AI Squared until after W-e was
>acquired. Maybe AI Squared was also in bad shape financially and felt
>selling out to VFO was in their best interest.
>
>It is possible doug, Dan and Aaron were offered positions at VFO but
>refused them. Perhaps this was the same for other GW employees too.
>Perhaps not.
>
>True, technology changes, and products/programs get discontinued, but
>for me Window-eyes was more than just another program. I have heard the
>term VFO Family" but VFO is not my family - GW Micro was and is and I'm
>still dealing with the loss.  some may not like these posts, but they
>are helping me deal with the situation.
>
>I should have written this post using jaws to help me practice - oh 
> well
>- I'll
>  move on eventually.
>Brenda
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>On 8/22/2017 12:04 PM, Butch Bussen via Talk wrote:
>> Yes, that is my understanding as well. Again, i wonder if gw people 
> had
>> a clue a i squared would sell them down the drain. Again I wonder, 
> was
>> this a i squared's agenda all along? Only the shadow knows.
>> 73
>> Butch
>> WA0VJR
>> Node 3148
>> Wallace, ks.
>>
>>
>> On Tue, 22 Aug 2017, Steve Jacobson via Talk wrote:
>>
>>> It is possible I am misinterpreting this note, but I really think 
> that
>>> both Doug and Dan thought that the merger with AI Squared would give
>>> Window-Eyes a fresh burst of resources to get over the hump on 
> changes
>>> that were very much needed. Once they sold the company, even though
>>> they remained active employees, they would not have had a say
>>> regarding the purchase of AI Squared by VFO. I remember at the time
>>> GW Micro was purchased by AI Squared, that Doug wrote in some 
> context
>>> or other about the number of engineers and developers AI Squared had
>>> compared to GW Micro, and I think there was some real optimism 
> there.
>>> The idea of the Fusion product with Window-Eyes m

RE: contacting Doug.

[Dennis Long via Talk]

That would be correct.  

-Original Message-
From: Talk [mailto:talk-bounces+dennisl1982=gmail@lists.window-eyes.com]
On Behalf Of Joseph Norton via Talk
Sent: Wednesday, August 23, 2017 11:08 AM
To: 'Window-Eyes Discussion List'
Cc: joseph.nor...@gmail.com
Subject: RE: contacting Doug.

They're changing the version numbering scheme.  JAWS 19 is now going to be
JAWS 2018.  I think all their software is going to the year model version
numbering.

___
Any views or opinions presented in this email are solely those of the author
and do not necessarily represent those of Ai Squared.

For membership options, visit
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gmail.com.
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___
Any views or opinions presented in this email are solely those of the author 
and do not necessarily represent those of Ai Squared.

For membership options, visit 
http://lists.window-eyes.com/options.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com/archive%40mail-archive.com.
For subscription options, visit 
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List archives can be found at 
http://lists.window-eyes.com/private.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com

RE: contacting Doug.

[Joseph Norton via Talk]

They're changing the version numbering scheme.  JAWS 19 is now going to be JAWS 
2018.  I think all their software is going to the year model version numbering.

___
Any views or opinions presented in this email are solely those of the author 
and do not necessarily represent those of Ai Squared.

For membership options, visit 
http://lists.window-eyes.com/options.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com/archive%40mail-archive.com.
For subscription options, visit 
http://lists.window-eyes.com/listinfo.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com
List archives can be found at 
http://lists.window-eyes.com/private.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com

Re: contacting Doug.

[Russ Kiehne via Talk]

I  wonder what new features  jaws 19 will offer in October?

-Original Message- 
From: Dennis Long via Talk

Sent: Tuesday, August 22, 2017 9:15 PM
To: 'Window-Eyes Discussion List'
Cc: Dennis Long
Subject: RE: contacting Doug.

Jaws2018 as it will be called will be important to see what WE features 
might be in the next version.  I suggested a few to the company  we'll have 
to see if and what  gets implemented.


-Original Message-
From: Talk [mailto:talk-bounces+dennisl1982=gmail@lists.window-eyes.com] 
On Behalf Of Nick Sarames via Talk

Sent: Tuesday, August 22, 2017 9:11 PM
To: Window-Eyes Discussion List
Cc: Nick Sarames
Subject: Re: contacting Doug.

I am realmly unclear as to what VFO has done since the acquisition.
Forget about what they did before the "mehrger (that's no longer
relevant).  While it would be nice for VFO to continue with  production
of WE, thus selling two "competing" screen readers, it's likely not a
good business decision, and whether we like it or not, Jaws is more
popular, which logistically makes more sense.

On 8/22/2017 2:07 PM, Darrell Bowles via Talk wrote:
I agree.  VFo doesn't seem like a family, more like  an evil captain of a 
pirate ship driving his slave crew to the bitter end.



-Original Message-
From: Talk [mailto:talk-boun...@lists.window-eyes.com] On Behalf Of Loy 
via Talk

Sent: Tuesday, August 22, 2017 2:04 PM
To: bjn...@windstream.net; Window-Eyes Discussion List 
<talk@lists.window-eyes.com>

Cc: Loy <loyrg2...@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: contacting Doug.

When I heard the head at AISquared speak at the time of the merger, I did 
not like him, I could since he was not being totally honest about the 
future of WE and AISquared.

   - Original Message -
   From: Brenda via Talk
   To: Butch Bussen via Talk
   Cc: Brenda
   Sent: Tuesday, August 22, 2017 12:59 PM
   Subject: Re: contacting Doug.


   I too was hopeful the AI Squared merge would be good for Window-eyes.
   but, the merge was lopsided and seems more like a sale as GW had no 
more

   control.

   I always thought AI Squared was directed by VFO to bring them
   Window-eyes as VFO didn't absorb AI Squared until after W-e was
   acquired. Maybe AI Squared was also in bad shape financially and felt
   selling out to VFO was in their best interest.

   It is possible doug, Dan and Aaron were offered positions at VFO but
   refused them. Perhaps this was the same for other GW employees too.
   Perhaps not.

   True, technology changes, and products/programs get discontinued, but
   for me Window-eyes was more than just another program. I have heard the
   term VFO Family" but VFO is not my family - GW Micro was and is and I'm
   still dealing with the loss.  some may not like these posts, but they
   are helping me deal with the situation.

   I should have written this post using jaws to help me practice - oh 
well

   - I'll
 move on eventually.
   Brenda









   On 8/22/2017 12:04 PM, Butch Bussen via Talk wrote:
   > Yes, that is my understanding as well. Again, i wonder if gw people 
had
   > a clue a i squared would sell them down the drain. Again I wonder, 
was

   > this a i squared's agenda all along? Only the shadow knows.
   > 73
   > Butch
   > WA0VJR
   > Node 3148
   > Wallace, ks.
   >
   >
   > On Tue, 22 Aug 2017, Steve Jacobson via Talk wrote:
   >
   >> It is possible I am misinterpreting this note, but I really think 
that

   >> both Doug and Dan thought that the merger with AI Squared would give
   >> Window-Eyes a fresh burst of resources to get over the hump on 
changes

   >> that were very much needed. Once they sold the company, even though
   >> they remained active employees, they would not have had a say
   >> regarding the purchase of AI Squared by VFO. I remember at the time
   >> GW Micro was purchased by AI Squared, that Doug wrote in some 
context

   >> or other about the number of engineers and developers AI Squared had
   >> compared to GW Micro, and I think there was some real optimism 
there.
   >> The idea of the Fusion product with Window-Eyes may have provided 
the

   >> new market and exposure that Window-Eyes really needed. I really
   >> don't think there were two mor decent people in this industry.
   >>
   >> Best regards,
   >>
   >> Steve Jacobson
   >>
   >> -Original Message-
   >> From: Talk [mailto:talk-boun...@lists.window-eyes.com] On Behalf Of
   >> Dennis Long via Talk
   >> Sent: Tuesday, August 22, 2017 12:00 AM
   >> To: 'Window-Eyes Discussion List' <talk@lists.window-eyes.com>
   >> Cc: Dennis Long <dennisl1...@gmail.com>
   >> Subject: RE: contacting Doug.
   >>
   >> When GW sold out to AI squared that was effectively the end of WE.
   >> Rememb

RE: contacting Doug.

[Dennis Long via Talk]

Jaws2018 as it will be called will be important to see what WE features might 
be in the next version.  I suggested a few to the company  we'll have to see if 
and what  gets implemented.

-Original Message-
From: Talk [mailto:talk-bounces+dennisl1982=gmail@lists.window-eyes.com] On 
Behalf Of Nick Sarames via Talk
Sent: Tuesday, August 22, 2017 9:11 PM
To: Window-Eyes Discussion List
Cc: Nick Sarames
Subject: Re: contacting Doug.

I am realmly unclear as to what VFO has done since the acquisition. 
Forget about what they did before the "mehrger (that's no longer 
relevant).  While it would be nice for VFO to continue with  production 
of WE, thus selling two "competing" screen readers, it's likely not a 
good business decision, and whether we like it or not, Jaws is more 
popular, which logistically makes more sense.

On 8/22/2017 2:07 PM, Darrell Bowles via Talk wrote:
> I agree.  VFo doesn't seem like a family, more like  an evil captain of a 
> pirate ship driving his slave crew to the bitter end.
> 
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: Talk [mailto:talk-boun...@lists.window-eyes.com] On Behalf Of Loy via 
> Talk
> Sent: Tuesday, August 22, 2017 2:04 PM
> To: bjn...@windstream.net; Window-Eyes Discussion List 
> <talk@lists.window-eyes.com>
> Cc: Loy <loyrg2...@gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: contacting Doug.
> 
> When I heard the head at AISquared speak at the time of the merger, I did not 
> like him, I could since he was not being totally honest about the future of 
> WE and AISquared.
>- Original Message -
>From: Brenda via Talk
>To: Butch Bussen via Talk
>    Cc: Brenda
>Sent: Tuesday, August 22, 2017 12:59 PM
>Subject: Re: contacting Doug.
> 
> 
>I too was hopeful the AI Squared merge would be good for Window-eyes.
>but, the merge was lopsided and seems more like a sale as GW had no more
>control.
> 
>I always thought AI Squared was directed by VFO to bring them
>Window-eyes as VFO didn't absorb AI Squared until after W-e was
>acquired. Maybe AI Squared was also in bad shape financially and felt
>selling out to VFO was in their best interest.
> 
>It is possible doug, Dan and Aaron were offered positions at VFO but
>refused them. Perhaps this was the same for other GW employees too.
>Perhaps not.
> 
>True, technology changes, and products/programs get discontinued, but
>for me Window-eyes was more than just another program. I have heard the
>term VFO Family" but VFO is not my family - GW Micro was and is and I'm
>still dealing with the loss.  some may not like these posts, but they
>are helping me deal with the situation.
> 
>I should have written this post using jaws to help me practice - oh well
>- I'll
>  move on eventually.
>Brenda
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>On 8/22/2017 12:04 PM, Butch Bussen via Talk wrote:
>> Yes, that is my understanding as well. Again, i wonder if gw people had
>> a clue a i squared would sell them down the drain. Again I wonder, was
>> this a i squared's agenda all along? Only the shadow knows.
>> 73
>> Butch
>> WA0VJR
>> Node 3148
>> Wallace, ks.
>>
>>
>> On Tue, 22 Aug 2017, Steve Jacobson via Talk wrote:
>>
>>> It is possible I am misinterpreting this note, but I really think that
>>> both Doug and Dan thought that the merger with AI Squared would give
>>> Window-Eyes a fresh burst of resources to get over the hump on changes
>>> that were very much needed. Once they sold the company, even though
>>> they remained active employees, they would not have had a say
>>> regarding the purchase of AI Squared by VFO. I remember at the time
>>> GW Micro was purchased by AI Squared, that Doug wrote in some context
>>> or other about the number of engineers and developers AI Squared had
>>> compared to GW Micro, and I think there was some real optimism there.
>>> The idea of the Fusion product with Window-Eyes may have provided the
>>> new market and exposure that Window-Eyes really needed. I really
>>> don't think there were two mor decent people in this industry.
>>>
>    >> Best regards,
>>>
>>> Steve Jacobson
>>>
>>> -Original Message-
>>> From: Talk [mailto:talk-boun...@lists.window-eyes.com] On Behalf Of
>>> Dennis Long via Talk
>>> Sent: Tuesday, August 22, 2017 12:00 AM
>>> To: 'Window-Eyes Discussion List' <talk@lists.window-eyes.com>
>

Re: contacting Doug.

[Nick Sarames via Talk]

I am realmly unclear as to what VFO has done since the acquisition. 
Forget about what they did before the "mehrger (that's no longer 
relevant).  While it would be nice for VFO to continue with  production 
of WE, thus selling two "competing" screen readers, it's likely not a 
good business decision, and whether we like it or not, Jaws is more 
popular, which logistically makes more sense.

On 8/22/2017 2:07 PM, Darrell Bowles via Talk wrote:
> I agree.  VFo doesn't seem like a family, more like  an evil captain of a 
> pirate ship driving his slave crew to the bitter end.
> 
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: Talk [mailto:talk-boun...@lists.window-eyes.com] On Behalf Of Loy via 
> Talk
> Sent: Tuesday, August 22, 2017 2:04 PM
> To: bjn...@windstream.net; Window-Eyes Discussion List 
> <talk@lists.window-eyes.com>
> Cc: Loy <loyrg2...@gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: contacting Doug.
> 
> When I heard the head at AISquared speak at the time of the merger, I did not 
> like him, I could since he was not being totally honest about the future of 
> WE and AISquared.
>- Original Message -
>From: Brenda via Talk
>To: Butch Bussen via Talk
>    Cc: Brenda
>Sent: Tuesday, August 22, 2017 12:59 PM
>Subject: Re: contacting Doug.
> 
> 
>I too was hopeful the AI Squared merge would be good for Window-eyes.
>but, the merge was lopsided and seems more like a sale as GW had no more
>control.
> 
>I always thought AI Squared was directed by VFO to bring them
>Window-eyes as VFO didn't absorb AI Squared until after W-e was
>acquired. Maybe AI Squared was also in bad shape financially and felt
>selling out to VFO was in their best interest.
> 
>It is possible doug, Dan and Aaron were offered positions at VFO but
>refused them. Perhaps this was the same for other GW employees too.
>Perhaps not.
> 
>True, technology changes, and products/programs get discontinued, but
>for me Window-eyes was more than just another program. I have heard the
>term VFO Family" but VFO is not my family - GW Micro was and is and I'm
>still dealing with the loss.  some may not like these posts, but they
>are helping me deal with the situation.
> 
>I should have written this post using jaws to help me practice - oh well
>- I'll
>  move on eventually.
>Brenda
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>On 8/22/2017 12:04 PM, Butch Bussen via Talk wrote:
>> Yes, that is my understanding as well. Again, i wonder if gw people had
>> a clue a i squared would sell them down the drain. Again I wonder, was
>> this a i squared's agenda all along? Only the shadow knows.
>> 73
>> Butch
>> WA0VJR
>> Node 3148
>> Wallace, ks.
>>
>>
>> On Tue, 22 Aug 2017, Steve Jacobson via Talk wrote:
>>
>>> It is possible I am misinterpreting this note, but I really think that
>>> both Doug and Dan thought that the merger with AI Squared would give
>>> Window-Eyes a fresh burst of resources to get over the hump on changes
>>> that were very much needed. Once they sold the company, even though
>>> they remained active employees, they would not have had a say
>>> regarding the purchase of AI Squared by VFO. I remember at the time
>>> GW Micro was purchased by AI Squared, that Doug wrote in some context
>>> or other about the number of engineers and developers AI Squared had
>>> compared to GW Micro, and I think there was some real optimism there.
>>> The idea of the Fusion product with Window-Eyes may have provided the
>>> new market and exposure that Window-Eyes really needed. I really
>>> don't think there were two mor decent people in this industry.
>>>
>    >> Best regards,
>>>
>>> Steve Jacobson
>>>
>>> -Original Message-
>>> From: Talk [mailto:talk-boun...@lists.window-eyes.com] On Behalf Of
>>> Dennis Long via Talk
>>> Sent: Tuesday, August 22, 2017 12:00 AM
>>> To: 'Window-Eyes Discussion List' <talk@lists.window-eyes.com>
>>> Cc: Dennis Long <dennisl1...@gmail.com>
>>> Subject: RE: contacting Doug.
>>>
>>> When GW sold out to AI squared that was effectively the end of WE.
>>> Remember everyone has their price Dan and Doug got there price.
>>>
>>>
>>> -Original Message-
>>> From: Talk [mailto:talk-boun...@lists.window-eyes.com] On Behalf Of
>

RE: contacting Doug.

[Andre via Talk]

I know this may sound crazy, but I still feel hurt by the loss of WE. I do 
think this may have been AI Squared's intent all along. I'm sure GW knew it was 
a possibility once they gave up total control of WE and sold the company to AI 
Squared, but felt they didn't have much of a choice any longer than  to take 
that risk.

-Original Message-
From: Talk [mailto:talk-boun...@lists.window-eyes.com] On Behalf Of Sky Mundell 
via Talk
Sent: Tuesday, August 22, 2017 12:12 PM
To: bjn...@windstream.net; 'Window-Eyes Discussion List'
Cc: Sky Mundell
Subject: RE: contacting Doug.

That is my thinking.  There was going to be rewritten braille support. GW knew 
they were falling behind but they didn't have the budget to get ahead of the 
competition while the Lawsuit was in progress.

-Original Message-
From: Talk [mailto:talk-boun...@lists.window-eyes.com] On Behalf Of Brenda via 
Talk
Sent: Tuesday, August 22, 2017 10:00 AM
To: Butch Bussen via Talk
Cc: Brenda
Subject: Re: contacting Doug.

I too was hopeful the AI Squared merge would be good for Window-eyes. 
but, the merge was lopsided and seems more like a sale as GW had no more 
control.

I always thought AI Squared was directed by VFO to bring them Window-eyes as 
VFO didn't absorb AI Squared until after W-e was acquired. Maybe AI Squared was 
also in bad shape financially and felt selling out to VFO was in their best 
interest.

It is possible doug, Dan and Aaron were offered positions at VFO but refused 
them. Perhaps this was the same for other GW employees too. 
Perhaps not.

True, technology changes, and products/programs get discontinued, but for me 
Window-eyes was more than just another program. I have heard the term VFO 
Family" but VFO is not my family - GW Micro was and is and I'm still dealing 
with the loss.  some may not like these posts, but they are helping me deal 
with the situation.

I should have written this post using jaws to help me practice - oh well
- I'll
  move on eventually.
Brenda









On 8/22/2017 12:04 PM, Butch Bussen via Talk wrote:
> Yes, that is my understanding as well.  Again, i wonder if gw people had 
> a clue a i squared would sell them down the drain.  Again I wonder, was 
> this a i squared's agenda all along?  Only the shadow knows.
> 73
> Butch
> WA0VJR
> Node 3148
> Wallace, ks.
> 
> 
> On Tue, 22 Aug 2017, Steve Jacobson via Talk wrote:
> 
>> It is possible I am misinterpreting this note, but I really think that 
>> both Doug and Dan thought that the merger with AI Squared would give 
>> Window-Eyes a fresh burst of resources to get over the hump on changes 
>> that were very much needed.  Once they sold the company, even though 
>> they remained active employees, they would not have had a say 
>> regarding the purchase of AI Squared by VFO.  I remember at the time 
>> GW Micro was purchased by AI Squared, that Doug wrote in some context 
>> or other about the number of engineers and developers AI Squared had 
>> compared to GW Micro, and I think there was some real optimism there.  
>> The idea of the Fusion product with Window-Eyes may have provided  the 
>> new market and exposure that Window-Eyes really needed.  I really 
>> don't think there were two mor decent people in this industry.
>>
>> Best regards,
>>
>> Steve Jacobson
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: Talk [mailto:talk-boun...@lists.window-eyes.com] On Behalf Of 
>> Dennis Long via Talk
>> Sent: Tuesday, August 22, 2017 12:00 AM
>> To: 'Window-Eyes Discussion List' <talk@lists.window-eyes.com>
>> Cc: Dennis Long <dennisl1...@gmail.com>
>> Subject: RE: contacting Doug.
>>
>> When GW sold out to AI squared that was effectively the end of WE.  
>> Remember everyone has their price Dan and Doug got there price.
>>
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: Talk [mailto:talk-boun...@lists.window-eyes.com] On Behalf Of 
>> Reeva Webb via Talk
>> Sent: Tuesday, August 22, 2017 12:12 AM
>> To: Window-Eyes Discussion List
>> Cc: Reeva Webb
>> Subject: RE: contacting Doug.
>>
>> Watch fs make zt bloated and terrible with yearly updates. Oh, ai2, 
>> y'all shouldn't have gotten with the shark.
>>
>> "the world has been against you from day one, tomorrow's never 
>> promised night has just begun, so sing with me we're all fucked" Walls 
>> Of Jericho
>>
>> Reeva
>>
>> On Aug 21, 2017 11:22 AM, "Sky Mundell via Talk" 
>> <talk@lists.window-eyes.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> And Zoomtext will be getting yearly updates, and so on like JAWS does.
>>>
>>> -Original Message-
>>> From: Talk [mailto:talk-boun...@lists.window-e

RE: contacting Doug.

[Dennis Long via Talk]

I agree Dan and Doug thought it would help WE.  I don't think they would've 
done it otherwise.  My point with yesterday's message is AI Squared gave them 
an offer they couldn't refuse.  Then at that point Dan and Doug had no say if 
AI squared got bought by VFO They had no say if AI squared said we don't want 
to develop WE anymore.  I'm not saying that would've happened it's an example.  
My point is they had little say.  I do find it interesting David Woo
 Is now  a top person at VFO.
-Original Message-
From: Talk [mailto:talk-boun...@lists.window-eyes.com] On Behalf Of Steve 
Jacobson via Talk
Sent: Tuesday, August 22, 2017 8:58 AM
To: 'Window-Eyes Discussion List'
Cc: Steve Jacobson
Subject: RE: contacting Doug.

It is possible I am misinterpreting this note, but I really think that both 
Doug and Dan thought that the merger with AI Squared would give Window-Eyes a 
fresh burst of resources to get over the hump on changes that were very much 
needed.  Once they sold the company, even though they remained active 
employees, they would not have had a say regarding the purchase of AI Squared 
by VFO.  I remember at the time GW Micro was purchased by AI Squared, that Doug 
wrote in some context or other about the number of engineers and developers AI 
Squared had compared to GW Micro, and I think there was some real optimism 
there.  The idea of the Fusion product with Window-Eyes may have provided  the 
new market and exposure that Window-Eyes really needed.  I really don't think 
there were two mor decent people in this industry.

Best regards,

Steve Jacobson
 
-Original Message-
From: Talk [mailto:talk-boun...@lists.window-eyes.com] On Behalf Of Dennis Long 
via Talk
Sent: Tuesday, August 22, 2017 12:00 AM
To: 'Window-Eyes Discussion List' <talk@lists.window-eyes.com>
Cc: Dennis Long <dennisl1...@gmail.com>
Subject: RE: contacting Doug.

When GW sold out to AI squared that was effectively the end of WE.  Remember 
everyone has their price Dan and Doug got there price.  


-Original Message-
From: Talk [mailto:talk-boun...@lists.window-eyes.com] On Behalf Of Reeva Webb 
via Talk
Sent: Tuesday, August 22, 2017 12:12 AM
To: Window-Eyes Discussion List
Cc: Reeva Webb
Subject: RE: contacting Doug.

Watch fs make zt bloated and terrible with yearly updates. Oh, ai2, y'all 
shouldn't have gotten with the shark.

"the world has been against you from day one, tomorrow's never promised night 
has just begun, so sing with me we're all fucked" Walls Of Jericho

Reeva

On Aug 21, 2017 11:22 AM, "Sky Mundell via Talk" <talk@lists.window-eyes.com>
wrote:

> And Zoomtext will be getting yearly updates, and so on like JAWS does.
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Talk [mailto:talk-boun...@lists.window-eyes.com] On Behalf Of 
> Russ Kiehne via Talk
> Sent: Monday, August 21, 2017 6:50 AM
> To: Window-Eyes Discussion List
> Cc: Russ Kiehne
> Subject: Re: contacting Doug.
>
> You are correct, the article was posted for historical purposes.
> It's interesting to see how many screen readers we had back then.  
> Jaws wonthe the battle and now is king of the hill.
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Debby Franson via Talk
> Sent: Sunday, August 20, 2017 12:50 PM
> To: Window-Eyes Discussion List
> Cc: Debby Franson
> Subject: Re: contacting Doug.
>
> Hi Loy!
>
> No, I agree that the article would not be fair today, but I think this 
> article was posted for historical purposes, not anything about the 
> current day.
>
> Debby
>
> At 10:25 AM 8/19/2017, Loy via Talk wrote
> >This would not be a air comparison now, Window Eyes progressed much faster
> >than JAWS since 1996.   - Original Message -   From: Russ Kiehne
> >via Talk   To: Window-Eyes Discussion List   Cc: Russ Kiehne   Sent:
> >Saturday, August 19, 2017 9:42 AM   Subject: Re: contacting Doug.   Check
> >this out from times past!   Date:Tue, 11 Jun 1996 14:49:26 EDT   From:
> >Jamal Mazrui <7.1...@compuserve.com>   Subject: CSUN "Dueling
> Windows"
> >Sensory Access Foundation has published a "Dueling Windows"   report in
> the
> >Spring 1996 issue of Access Review.  It   summarizes a competition among
> >Windows screen readers that was   held at the 1996 CSUN conference in
> >March.  I am prefacing the   article with some tabulations I did with its
> >data.   Since the article does not quantify the performance of each
> >screen reader according to its criteria, I did such an analysis   for the
> >interest of readers.  I assigned a value of 2 for   accomplishing a task,
> 1
> >for accomplishing it with difficulty, and   0 for failing it.  If anyone
> >observes an error in my arithmetic,   please let me know.   Artic's
> >WinVision   accomplished: 7   a

RE: contacting Doug.

[Sky Mundell via Talk]

Neither did I. The head, Who's name, for your reference is David Woo was the 
head of AI Squared. Now the head is one of the big bosses at VFO.

-Original Message-
From: Talk [mailto:talk-boun...@lists.window-eyes.com] On Behalf Of Loy via Talk
Sent: Tuesday, August 22, 2017 11:04 AM
To: bjn...@windstream.net; Window-Eyes Discussion List
Cc: Loy
Subject: Re: contacting Doug.

When I heard the head at AISquared speak at the time of the merger, I did not 
like him, I could since he was not being totally honest about the future of WE 
and AISquared. 
  - Original Message - 
  From: Brenda via Talk 
  To: Butch Bussen via Talk 
  Cc: Brenda 
  Sent: Tuesday, August 22, 2017 12:59 PM
  Subject: Re: contacting Doug.


  I too was hopeful the AI Squared merge would be good for Window-eyes. 
  but, the merge was lopsided and seems more like a sale as GW had no more 
  control.

  I always thought AI Squared was directed by VFO to bring them 
  Window-eyes as VFO didn't absorb AI Squared until after W-e was 
  acquired. Maybe AI Squared was also in bad shape financially and felt 
  selling out to VFO was in their best interest.

  It is possible doug, Dan and Aaron were offered positions at VFO but 
  refused them. Perhaps this was the same for other GW employees too. 
  Perhaps not.

  True, technology changes, and products/programs get discontinued, but 
  for me Window-eyes was more than just another program. I have heard the 
  term VFO Family" but VFO is not my family - GW Micro was and is and I'm 
  still dealing with the loss.  some may not like these posts, but they 
  are helping me deal with the situation.

  I should have written this post using jaws to help me practice - oh well 
  - I'll
move on eventually.
  Brenda









  On 8/22/2017 12:04 PM, Butch Bussen via Talk wrote:
  > Yes, that is my understanding as well. Again, i wonder if gw people had 
  > a clue a i squared would sell them down the drain. Again I wonder, was 
  > this a i squared's agenda all along? Only the shadow knows.
  > 73
  > Butch
  > WA0VJR
  > Node 3148
  > Wallace, ks.
  > 
  > 
  > On Tue, 22 Aug 2017, Steve Jacobson via Talk wrote:
  > 
  >> It is possible I am misinterpreting this note, but I really think that 
  >> both Doug and Dan thought that the merger with AI Squared would give 
  >> Window-Eyes a fresh burst of resources to get over the hump on changes 
  >> that were very much needed. Once they sold the company, even though 
  >> they remained active employees, they would not have had a say 
  >> regarding the purchase of AI Squared by VFO. I remember at the time 
  >> GW Micro was purchased by AI Squared, that Doug wrote in some context 
  >> or other about the number of engineers and developers AI Squared had 
  >> compared to GW Micro, and I think there was some real optimism there.  
  >> The idea of the Fusion product with Window-Eyes may have provided the 
  >> new market and exposure that Window-Eyes really needed. I really 
  >> don't think there were two mor decent people in this industry.
  >>
  >> Best regards,
  >>
  >> Steve Jacobson
  >>
  >> -Original Message-
  >> From: Talk [mailto:talk-boun...@lists.window-eyes.com] On Behalf Of 
  >> Dennis Long via Talk
  >> Sent: Tuesday, August 22, 2017 12:00 AM
  >> To: 'Window-Eyes Discussion List' <talk@lists.window-eyes.com>
  >> Cc: Dennis Long <dennisl1...@gmail.com>
  >> Subject: RE: contacting Doug.
  >>
  >> When GW sold out to AI squared that was effectively the end of WE.  
  >> Remember everyone has their price Dan and Doug got there price.
  >>
  >>
  >> -Original Message-----
  >> From: Talk [mailto:talk-boun...@lists.window-eyes.com] On Behalf Of 
  >> Reeva Webb via Talk
  >> Sent: Tuesday, August 22, 2017 12:12 AM
  >> To: Window-Eyes Discussion List
  >> Cc: Reeva Webb
  >> Subject: RE: contacting Doug.
  >>
  >> Watch fs make zt bloated and terrible with yearly updates. Oh, ai2, 
  >> y'all shouldn't have gotten with the shark.
  >>
  >> "the world has been against you from day one, tomorrow's never 
  >> promised night has just begun, so sing with me we're all fucked" Walls 
  >> Of Jericho
  >>
  >> Reeva
  >>
  >> On Aug 21, 2017 11:22 AM, "Sky Mundell via Talk" 
  >> <talk@lists.window-eyes.com>
  >> wrote:
  >>
  >>> And Zoomtext will be getting yearly updates, and so on like JAWS does.
  >>>
  >>> -Original Message-
  >>> From: Talk [mailto:talk-boun...@lists.window-eyes.com] On Behalf Of
  >>> Russ Kiehne via Talk
  >>> Sent: Monday, August 21, 2017 6:50 AM
  >

RE: contacting Doug.

[Darrell Bowles via Talk]

I agree.  VFo doesn't seem like a family, more like  an evil captain of a 
pirate ship driving his slave crew to the bitter end.


-Original Message-
From: Talk [mailto:talk-boun...@lists.window-eyes.com] On Behalf Of Loy via Talk
Sent: Tuesday, August 22, 2017 2:04 PM
To: bjn...@windstream.net; Window-Eyes Discussion List 
<talk@lists.window-eyes.com>
Cc: Loy <loyrg2...@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: contacting Doug.

When I heard the head at AISquared speak at the time of the merger, I did not 
like him, I could since he was not being totally honest about the future of WE 
and AISquared. 
  - Original Message - 
  From: Brenda via Talk 
  To: Butch Bussen via Talk 
  Cc: Brenda 
  Sent: Tuesday, August 22, 2017 12:59 PM
  Subject: Re: contacting Doug.


  I too was hopeful the AI Squared merge would be good for Window-eyes. 
  but, the merge was lopsided and seems more like a sale as GW had no more 
  control.

  I always thought AI Squared was directed by VFO to bring them 
  Window-eyes as VFO didn't absorb AI Squared until after W-e was 
  acquired. Maybe AI Squared was also in bad shape financially and felt 
  selling out to VFO was in their best interest.

  It is possible doug, Dan and Aaron were offered positions at VFO but 
  refused them. Perhaps this was the same for other GW employees too. 
  Perhaps not.

  True, technology changes, and products/programs get discontinued, but 
  for me Window-eyes was more than just another program. I have heard the 
  term VFO Family" but VFO is not my family - GW Micro was and is and I'm 
  still dealing with the loss.  some may not like these posts, but they 
  are helping me deal with the situation.

  I should have written this post using jaws to help me practice - oh well 
  - I'll
move on eventually.
  Brenda









  On 8/22/2017 12:04 PM, Butch Bussen via Talk wrote:
  > Yes, that is my understanding as well. Again, i wonder if gw people had 
  > a clue a i squared would sell them down the drain. Again I wonder, was 
  > this a i squared's agenda all along? Only the shadow knows.
  > 73
  > Butch
  > WA0VJR
  > Node 3148
  > Wallace, ks.
  > 
  > 
  > On Tue, 22 Aug 2017, Steve Jacobson via Talk wrote:
  > 
  >> It is possible I am misinterpreting this note, but I really think that 
  >> both Doug and Dan thought that the merger with AI Squared would give 
  >> Window-Eyes a fresh burst of resources to get over the hump on changes 
  >> that were very much needed. Once they sold the company, even though 
  >> they remained active employees, they would not have had a say 
  >> regarding the purchase of AI Squared by VFO. I remember at the time 
  >> GW Micro was purchased by AI Squared, that Doug wrote in some context 
  >> or other about the number of engineers and developers AI Squared had 
  >> compared to GW Micro, and I think there was some real optimism there.  
  >> The idea of the Fusion product with Window-Eyes may have provided the 
  >> new market and exposure that Window-Eyes really needed. I really 
  >> don't think there were two mor decent people in this industry.
  >>
  >> Best regards,
  >>
  >> Steve Jacobson
  >>
  >> -Original Message-
  >> From: Talk [mailto:talk-boun...@lists.window-eyes.com] On Behalf Of 
  >> Dennis Long via Talk
  >> Sent: Tuesday, August 22, 2017 12:00 AM
  >> To: 'Window-Eyes Discussion List' <talk@lists.window-eyes.com>
  >> Cc: Dennis Long <dennisl1...@gmail.com>
  >> Subject: RE: contacting Doug.
  >>
  >> When GW sold out to AI squared that was effectively the end of WE.  
  >> Remember everyone has their price Dan and Doug got there price.
  >>
  >>
  >> -Original Message-
  >> From: Talk [mailto:talk-boun...@lists.window-eyes.com] On Behalf Of 
  >> Reeva Webb via Talk
  >> Sent: Tuesday, August 22, 2017 12:12 AM
  >> To: Window-Eyes Discussion List
  >> Cc: Reeva Webb
  >> Subject: RE: contacting Doug.
  >>
  >> Watch fs make zt bloated and terrible with yearly updates. Oh, ai2, 
  >> y'all shouldn't have gotten with the shark.
  >>
  >> "the world has been against you from day one, tomorrow's never 
  >> promised night has just begun, so sing with me we're all fucked" Walls 
  >> Of Jericho
  >>
  >> Reeva
  >>
  >> On Aug 21, 2017 11:22 AM, "Sky Mundell via Talk" 
  >> <talk@lists.window-eyes.com>
  >> wrote:
  >>
  >>> And Zoomtext will be getting yearly updates, and so on like JAWS does.
  >>>
  >>> -Original Message-
  >>> From: Talk [mailto:talk-boun...@lists.window-eyes.com] On Behalf Of
  >>> Russ Kiehne via Talk
  >>&

Re: contacting Doug.

[Loy via Talk]

When I heard the head at AISquared speak at the time of the merger, I did not 
like him, I could since he was not being totally honest about the future of WE 
and AISquared. 
  - Original Message - 
  From: Brenda via Talk 
  To: Butch Bussen via Talk 
  Cc: Brenda 
  Sent: Tuesday, August 22, 2017 12:59 PM
  Subject: Re: contacting Doug.


  I too was hopeful the AI Squared merge would be good for Window-eyes. 
  but, the merge was lopsided and seems more like a sale as GW had no more 
  control.

  I always thought AI Squared was directed by VFO to bring them 
  Window-eyes as VFO didn't absorb AI Squared until after W-e was 
  acquired. Maybe AI Squared was also in bad shape financially and felt 
  selling out to VFO was in their best interest.

  It is possible doug, Dan and Aaron were offered positions at VFO but 
  refused them. Perhaps this was the same for other GW employees too. 
  Perhaps not.

  True, technology changes, and products/programs get discontinued, but 
  for me Window-eyes was more than just another program. I have heard the 
  term VFO Family" but VFO is not my family - GW Micro was and is and I'm 
  still dealing with the loss.  some may not like these posts, but they 
  are helping me deal with the situation.

  I should have written this post using jaws to help me practice - oh well 
  - I'll
move on eventually.
  Brenda









  On 8/22/2017 12:04 PM, Butch Bussen via Talk wrote:
  > Yes, that is my understanding as well. Again, i wonder if gw people had 
  > a clue a i squared would sell them down the drain. Again I wonder, was 
  > this a i squared's agenda all along? Only the shadow knows.
  > 73
  > Butch
  > WA0VJR
  > Node 3148
  > Wallace, ks.
  > 
  > 
  > On Tue, 22 Aug 2017, Steve Jacobson via Talk wrote:
  > 
  >> It is possible I am misinterpreting this note, but I really think that 
  >> both Doug and Dan thought that the merger with AI Squared would give 
  >> Window-Eyes a fresh burst of resources to get over the hump on changes 
  >> that were very much needed. Once they sold the company, even though 
  >> they remained active employees, they would not have had a say 
  >> regarding the purchase of AI Squared by VFO. I remember at the time 
  >> GW Micro was purchased by AI Squared, that Doug wrote in some context 
  >> or other about the number of engineers and developers AI Squared had 
  >> compared to GW Micro, and I think there was some real optimism there.  
  >> The idea of the Fusion product with Window-Eyes may have provided the 
  >> new market and exposure that Window-Eyes really needed. I really 
  >> don't think there were two mor decent people in this industry.
  >>
  >> Best regards,
  >>
  >> Steve Jacobson
  >>
  >> -Original Message-
  >> From: Talk [mailto:talk-boun...@lists.window-eyes.com] On Behalf Of 
  >> Dennis Long via Talk
  >> Sent: Tuesday, August 22, 2017 12:00 AM
  >> To: 'Window-Eyes Discussion List' <talk@lists.window-eyes.com>
  >> Cc: Dennis Long <dennisl1...@gmail.com>
  >> Subject: RE: contacting Doug.
  >>
  >> When GW sold out to AI squared that was effectively the end of WE.  
  >> Remember everyone has their price Dan and Doug got there price.
  >>
  >>
  >> -Original Message-----
  >> From: Talk [mailto:talk-boun...@lists.window-eyes.com] On Behalf Of 
  >> Reeva Webb via Talk
  >> Sent: Tuesday, August 22, 2017 12:12 AM
  >> To: Window-Eyes Discussion List
  >> Cc: Reeva Webb
  >> Subject: RE: contacting Doug.
  >>
  >> Watch fs make zt bloated and terrible with yearly updates. Oh, ai2, 
  >> y'all shouldn't have gotten with the shark.
  >>
  >> "the world has been against you from day one, tomorrow's never 
  >> promised night has just begun, so sing with me we're all fucked" Walls 
  >> Of Jericho
  >>
  >> Reeva
  >>
  >> On Aug 21, 2017 11:22 AM, "Sky Mundell via Talk" 
  >> <talk@lists.window-eyes.com>
  >> wrote:
  >>
  >>> And Zoomtext will be getting yearly updates, and so on like JAWS does.
  >>>
  >>> -Original Message-
  >>> From: Talk [mailto:talk-boun...@lists.window-eyes.com] On Behalf Of
  >>> Russ Kiehne via Talk
  >>> Sent: Monday, August 21, 2017 6:50 AM
  >>> To: Window-Eyes Discussion List
  >>> Cc: Russ Kiehne
  >>> Subject: Re: contacting Doug.
  >>>
  >>> You are correct, the article was posted for historical purposes.
  >>> It's interesting to see how many screen readers we had back then.
  >>> Jaws wonthe the battle and now is king of the hill.
  >>>
  >>>

RE: contacting Doug.

[Sky Mundell via Talk]

That is my thinking.  There was going to be rewritten braille support. GW knew 
they were falling behind but they didn't have the budget to get ahead of the 
competition while the Lawsuit was in progress.

-Original Message-
From: Talk [mailto:talk-boun...@lists.window-eyes.com] On Behalf Of Brenda via 
Talk
Sent: Tuesday, August 22, 2017 10:00 AM
To: Butch Bussen via Talk
Cc: Brenda
Subject: Re: contacting Doug.

I too was hopeful the AI Squared merge would be good for Window-eyes. 
but, the merge was lopsided and seems more like a sale as GW had no more 
control.

I always thought AI Squared was directed by VFO to bring them Window-eyes as 
VFO didn't absorb AI Squared until after W-e was acquired. Maybe AI Squared was 
also in bad shape financially and felt selling out to VFO was in their best 
interest.

It is possible doug, Dan and Aaron were offered positions at VFO but refused 
them. Perhaps this was the same for other GW employees too. 
Perhaps not.

True, technology changes, and products/programs get discontinued, but for me 
Window-eyes was more than just another program. I have heard the term VFO 
Family" but VFO is not my family - GW Micro was and is and I'm still dealing 
with the loss.  some may not like these posts, but they are helping me deal 
with the situation.

I should have written this post using jaws to help me practice - oh well
- I'll
  move on eventually.
Brenda









On 8/22/2017 12:04 PM, Butch Bussen via Talk wrote:
> Yes, that is my understanding as well.  Again, i wonder if gw people had 
> a clue a i squared would sell them down the drain.  Again I wonder, was 
> this a i squared's agenda all along?  Only the shadow knows.
> 73
> Butch
> WA0VJR
> Node 3148
> Wallace, ks.
> 
> 
> On Tue, 22 Aug 2017, Steve Jacobson via Talk wrote:
> 
>> It is possible I am misinterpreting this note, but I really think that 
>> both Doug and Dan thought that the merger with AI Squared would give 
>> Window-Eyes a fresh burst of resources to get over the hump on changes 
>> that were very much needed.  Once they sold the company, even though 
>> they remained active employees, they would not have had a say 
>> regarding the purchase of AI Squared by VFO.  I remember at the time 
>> GW Micro was purchased by AI Squared, that Doug wrote in some context 
>> or other about the number of engineers and developers AI Squared had 
>> compared to GW Micro, and I think there was some real optimism there.  
>> The idea of the Fusion product with Window-Eyes may have provided  the 
>> new market and exposure that Window-Eyes really needed.  I really 
>> don't think there were two mor decent people in this industry.
>>
>> Best regards,
>>
>> Steve Jacobson
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: Talk [mailto:talk-boun...@lists.window-eyes.com] On Behalf Of 
>> Dennis Long via Talk
>> Sent: Tuesday, August 22, 2017 12:00 AM
>> To: 'Window-Eyes Discussion List' <talk@lists.window-eyes.com>
>> Cc: Dennis Long <dennisl1...@gmail.com>
>> Subject: RE: contacting Doug.
>>
>> When GW sold out to AI squared that was effectively the end of WE.  
>> Remember everyone has their price Dan and Doug got there price.
>>
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: Talk [mailto:talk-boun...@lists.window-eyes.com] On Behalf Of 
>> Reeva Webb via Talk
>> Sent: Tuesday, August 22, 2017 12:12 AM
>> To: Window-Eyes Discussion List
>> Cc: Reeva Webb
>> Subject: RE: contacting Doug.
>>
>> Watch fs make zt bloated and terrible with yearly updates. Oh, ai2, 
>> y'all shouldn't have gotten with the shark.
>>
>> "the world has been against you from day one, tomorrow's never 
>> promised night has just begun, so sing with me we're all fucked" Walls 
>> Of Jericho
>>
>> Reeva
>>
>> On Aug 21, 2017 11:22 AM, "Sky Mundell via Talk" 
>> <talk@lists.window-eyes.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> And Zoomtext will be getting yearly updates, and so on like JAWS does.
>>>
>>> -Original Message-
>>> From: Talk [mailto:talk-boun...@lists.window-eyes.com] On Behalf Of
>>> Russ Kiehne via Talk
>>> Sent: Monday, August 21, 2017 6:50 AM
>>> To: Window-Eyes Discussion List
>>> Cc: Russ Kiehne
>>> Subject: Re: contacting Doug.
>>>
>>> You are correct, the article was posted for historical purposes.
>>> It's interesting to see how many screen readers we had back then.
>>> Jaws wonthe the battle and now is king of the hill.
>>>
>>> -Original Message-
>>> From: Debby Franson via Talk
>>> Sent: Sunday, A

Re: contacting Doug.

[Brenda via Talk]

I too was hopeful the AI Squared merge would be good for Window-eyes. 
but, the merge was lopsided and seems more like a sale as GW had no more 
control.


I always thought AI Squared was directed by VFO to bring them 
Window-eyes as VFO didn't absorb AI Squared until after W-e was 
acquired. Maybe AI Squared was also in bad shape financially and felt 
selling out to VFO was in their best interest.


It is possible doug, Dan and Aaron were offered positions at VFO but 
refused them. Perhaps this was the same for other GW employees too. 
Perhaps not.


True, technology changes, and products/programs get discontinued, but 
for me Window-eyes was more than just another program. I have heard the 
term VFO Family" but VFO is not my family - GW Micro was and is and I'm 
still dealing with the loss.  some may not like these posts, but they 
are helping me deal with the situation.


I should have written this post using jaws to help me practice - oh well 
- I'll

 move on eventually.
Brenda









On 8/22/2017 12:04 PM, Butch Bussen via Talk wrote:
Yes, that is my understanding as well.  Again, i wonder if gw people had 
a clue a i squared would sell them down the drain.  Again I wonder, was 
this a i squared's agenda all along?  Only the shadow knows.

73
Butch
WA0VJR
Node 3148
Wallace, ks.


On Tue, 22 Aug 2017, Steve Jacobson via Talk wrote:

It is possible I am misinterpreting this note, but I really think that 
both Doug and Dan thought that the merger with AI Squared would give 
Window-Eyes a fresh burst of resources to get over the hump on changes 
that were very much needed.  Once they sold the company, even though 
they remained active employees, they would not have had a say 
regarding the purchase of AI Squared by VFO.  I remember at the time 
GW Micro was purchased by AI Squared, that Doug wrote in some context 
or other about the number of engineers and developers AI Squared had 
compared to GW Micro, and I think there was some real optimism there.  
The idea of the Fusion product with Window-Eyes may have provided  the 
new market and exposure that Window-Eyes really needed.  I really 
don't think there were two mor decent people in this industry.


Best regards,

Steve Jacobson

-Original Message-
From: Talk [mailto:talk-boun...@lists.window-eyes.com] On Behalf Of 
Dennis Long via Talk

Sent: Tuesday, August 22, 2017 12:00 AM
To: 'Window-Eyes Discussion List' <talk@lists.window-eyes.com>
Cc: Dennis Long <dennisl1...@gmail.com>
Subject: RE: contacting Doug.

When GW sold out to AI squared that was effectively the end of WE.  
Remember everyone has their price Dan and Doug got there price.



-Original Message-
From: Talk [mailto:talk-boun...@lists.window-eyes.com] On Behalf Of 
Reeva Webb via Talk

Sent: Tuesday, August 22, 2017 12:12 AM
To: Window-Eyes Discussion List
Cc: Reeva Webb
Subject: RE: contacting Doug.

Watch fs make zt bloated and terrible with yearly updates. Oh, ai2, 
y'all shouldn't have gotten with the shark.


"the world has been against you from day one, tomorrow's never 
promised night has just begun, so sing with me we're all fucked" Walls 
Of Jericho


Reeva

On Aug 21, 2017 11:22 AM, "Sky Mundell via Talk" 
<talk@lists.window-eyes.com>

wrote:


And Zoomtext will be getting yearly updates, and so on like JAWS does.

-Original Message-
From: Talk [mailto:talk-boun...@lists.window-eyes.com] On Behalf Of
Russ Kiehne via Talk
Sent: Monday, August 21, 2017 6:50 AM
To: Window-Eyes Discussion List
Cc: Russ Kiehne
Subject: Re: contacting Doug.

    You are correct, the article was posted for historical purposes.
It's interesting to see how many screen readers we had back then.
Jaws wonthe the battle and now is king of the hill.

-Original Message-
From: Debby Franson via Talk
Sent: Sunday, August 20, 2017 12:50 PM
To: Window-Eyes Discussion List
Cc: Debby Franson
Subject: Re: contacting Doug.

Hi Loy!

No, I agree that the article would not be fair today, but I think this
article was posted for historical purposes, not anything about the
current day.

Debby

At 10:25 AM 8/19/2017, Loy via Talk wrote
This would not be a air comparison now, Window Eyes progressed much 
faster
than JAWS since 1996.   - Original Message -   From: Russ 
Kiehne

via Talk   To: Window-Eyes Discussion List   Cc: Russ Kiehne   Sent:
Saturday, August 19, 2017 9:42 AM   Subject: Re: contacting Doug.   
Check
this out from times past!   Date:    Tue, 11 Jun 1996 14:49:26 EDT   
From:

Jamal Mazrui <7.1...@compuserve.com>   Subject: CSUN "Dueling

Windows"

Sensory Access Foundation has published a "Dueling Windows"   report in

the
Spring 1996 issue of Access Review.  It   summarizes a competition 
among

Windows screen readers that was   held at the 1996 CSUN conference in
March.  I am prefacing the   article with some tabulations I did 
with its

data.   Since the article does not quantify t

RE: contacting Doug.

[Andre via Talk]

I agree. Doug and Dan are awesome. We can add Aaron into that mix as well. It's 
all a rotten shame for our community.

-Original Message-
From: Talk [mailto:talk-boun...@lists.window-eyes.com] On Behalf Of Steve 
Jacobson via Talk
Sent: Tuesday, August 22, 2017 7:59 AM
To: 'Window-Eyes Discussion List'
Cc: Steve Jacobson
Subject: RE: contacting Doug.

It is possible I am misinterpreting this note, but I really think that both 
Doug and Dan thought that the merger with AI Squared would give Window-Eyes a 
fresh burst of resources to get over the hump on changes that were very much 
needed.  Once they sold the company, even though they remained active 
employees, they would not have had a say regarding the purchase of AI Squared 
by VFO.  I remember at the time GW Micro was purchased by AI Squared, that Doug 
wrote in some context or other about the number of engineers and developers AI 
Squared had compared to GW Micro, and I think there was some real optimism 
there.  The idea of the Fusion product with Window-Eyes may have provided  the 
new market and exposure that Window-Eyes really needed.  I really don't think 
there were two mor decent people in this industry.

Best regards,

Steve Jacobson
 
-Original Message-
From: Talk [mailto:talk-boun...@lists.window-eyes.com] On Behalf Of Dennis Long 
via Talk
Sent: Tuesday, August 22, 2017 12:00 AM
To: 'Window-Eyes Discussion List' <talk@lists.window-eyes.com>
Cc: Dennis Long <dennisl1...@gmail.com>
Subject: RE: contacting Doug.

When GW sold out to AI squared that was effectively the end of WE.  Remember 
everyone has their price Dan and Doug got there price.  


-Original Message-
From: Talk [mailto:talk-boun...@lists.window-eyes.com] On Behalf Of Reeva Webb 
via Talk
Sent: Tuesday, August 22, 2017 12:12 AM
To: Window-Eyes Discussion List
Cc: Reeva Webb
Subject: RE: contacting Doug.

Watch fs make zt bloated and terrible with yearly updates. Oh, ai2, y'all 
shouldn't have gotten with the shark.

"the world has been against you from day one, tomorrow's never promised night 
has just begun, so sing with me we're all fucked" Walls Of Jericho

Reeva

On Aug 21, 2017 11:22 AM, "Sky Mundell via Talk" <talk@lists.window-eyes.com>
wrote:

> And Zoomtext will be getting yearly updates, and so on like JAWS does.
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Talk [mailto:talk-boun...@lists.window-eyes.com] On Behalf Of 
> Russ Kiehne via Talk
> Sent: Monday, August 21, 2017 6:50 AM
> To: Window-Eyes Discussion List
> Cc: Russ Kiehne
> Subject: Re: contacting Doug.
>
> You are correct, the article was posted for historical purposes.
> It's interesting to see how many screen readers we had back then.  
> Jaws wonthe the battle and now is king of the hill.
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Debby Franson via Talk
> Sent: Sunday, August 20, 2017 12:50 PM
> To: Window-Eyes Discussion List
> Cc: Debby Franson
> Subject: Re: contacting Doug.
>
> Hi Loy!
>
> No, I agree that the article would not be fair today, but I think this 
> article was posted for historical purposes, not anything about the 
> current day.
>
> Debby
>
> At 10:25 AM 8/19/2017, Loy via Talk wrote
> >This would not be a air comparison now, Window Eyes progressed much faster
> >than JAWS since 1996.   - Original Message -   From: Russ Kiehne
> >via Talk   To: Window-Eyes Discussion List   Cc: Russ Kiehne   Sent:
> >Saturday, August 19, 2017 9:42 AM   Subject: Re: contacting Doug.   Check
> >this out from times past!   Date:Tue, 11 Jun 1996 14:49:26 EDT   From:
> >Jamal Mazrui <7.1...@compuserve.com>   Subject: CSUN "Dueling
> Windows"
> >Sensory Access Foundation has published a "Dueling Windows"   report in
> the
> >Spring 1996 issue of Access Review.  It   summarizes a competition among
> >Windows screen readers that was   held at the 1996 CSUN conference in
> >March.  I am prefacing the   article with some tabulations I did with its
> >data.   Since the article does not quantify the performance of each
> >screen reader according to its criteria, I did such an analysis   for the
> >interest of readers.  I assigned a value of 2 for   accomplishing a task,
> 1
> >for accomplishing it with difficulty, and   0 for failing it.  If anyone
> >observes an error in my arithmetic,   please let me know.   Artic's
> >WinVision   accomplished: 7   accomplished with difficulty: 2   failed: 6
> >total points: 16   average: 1.06   Berkeley's OutSpoken for Windows
> >accomplished: 9   accomplished with difficulty: 5   failed: 1   total
> >points: 23   average: 1.53   GW Micro's Window-Eyes   accomplished: 5
> >accomplished with difficulty: 1   failed: 9   total points: 11   average:
> >.

RE: contacting Doug.

[Rod Hutton via Talk]

Hi Steve, and all,

I just want to say that, although I have chosen not to participate in this and 
related threads about the history of Window-Eyes, I sincerely enjoy reading 
these posts, as it keeps Window-Eyes alive for us all.
Yes, I continue to use Window-Eyes, since it is still perfectly functional, 
but, more than this, continuing to talk about its history goes very far indeed 
to bless the past and future, if I may be permitted to use spiritual language.
I guess what I'm saying is that, in my view, there's more than meets the eye, 
or ear, when we talk about technology; There is what this technology means to 
our lives, and there's no price tag or mathematical equation which can limit it.

Thanks,

Rod

-Original Message-
From: Talk [mailto:talk-boun...@lists.window-eyes.com] On Behalf Of Steve 
Jacobson via Talk
Sent: August 22, 2017 8:59 AM
To: 'Window-Eyes Discussion List' <talk@lists.window-eyes.com>
Cc: Steve Jacobson <steve.jacob...@visi.com>
Subject: RE: contacting Doug.

It is possible I am misinterpreting this note, but I really think that both 
Doug and Dan thought that the merger with AI Squared would give Window-Eyes a 
fresh burst of resources to get over the hump on changes that were very much 
needed.  Once they sold the company, even though they remained active 
employees, they would not have had a say regarding the purchase of AI Squared 
by VFO.  I remember at the time GW Micro was purchased by AI Squared, that Doug 
wrote in some context or other about the number of engineers and developers AI 
Squared had compared to GW Micro, and I think there was some real optimism 
there.  The idea of the Fusion product with Window-Eyes may have provided  the 
new market and exposure that Window-Eyes really needed.  I really don't think 
there were two mor decent people in this industry.

Best regards,

Steve Jacobson
 
-Original Message-
From: Talk [mailto:talk-boun...@lists.window-eyes.com] On Behalf Of Dennis Long 
via Talk
Sent: Tuesday, August 22, 2017 12:00 AM
To: 'Window-Eyes Discussion List' <talk@lists.window-eyes.com>
Cc: Dennis Long <dennisl1...@gmail.com>
Subject: RE: contacting Doug.

When GW sold out to AI squared that was effectively the end of WE.  Remember 
everyone has their price Dan and Doug got there price.  


-Original Message-
From: Talk [mailto:talk-boun...@lists.window-eyes.com] On Behalf Of Reeva Webb 
via Talk
Sent: Tuesday, August 22, 2017 12:12 AM
To: Window-Eyes Discussion List
Cc: Reeva Webb
Subject: RE: contacting Doug.

Watch fs make zt bloated and terrible with yearly updates. Oh, ai2, y'all 
shouldn't have gotten with the shark.

"the world has been against you from day one, tomorrow's never promised night 
has just begun, so sing with me we're all fucked" Walls Of Jericho

Reeva

On Aug 21, 2017 11:22 AM, "Sky Mundell via Talk" <talk@lists.window-eyes.com>
wrote:

> And Zoomtext will be getting yearly updates, and so on like JAWS does.
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Talk [mailto:talk-boun...@lists.window-eyes.com] On Behalf Of 
> Russ Kiehne via Talk
> Sent: Monday, August 21, 2017 6:50 AM
> To: Window-Eyes Discussion List
> Cc: Russ Kiehne
> Subject: Re: contacting Doug.
>
> You are correct, the article was posted for historical purposes.
> It's interesting to see how many screen readers we had back then.  
> Jaws wonthe the battle and now is king of the hill.
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Debby Franson via Talk
> Sent: Sunday, August 20, 2017 12:50 PM
> To: Window-Eyes Discussion List
> Cc: Debby Franson
> Subject: Re: contacting Doug.
>
> Hi Loy!
>
> No, I agree that the article would not be fair today, but I think this 
> article was posted for historical purposes, not anything about the 
> current day.
>
> Debby
>
> At 10:25 AM 8/19/2017, Loy via Talk wrote
> >This would not be a air comparison now, Window Eyes progressed much faster
> >than JAWS since 1996.   - Original Message -   From: Russ Kiehne
> >via Talk   To: Window-Eyes Discussion List   Cc: Russ Kiehne   Sent:
> >Saturday, August 19, 2017 9:42 AM   Subject: Re: contacting Doug.   Check
> >this out from times past!   Date:Tue, 11 Jun 1996 14:49:26 EDT   From:
> >Jamal Mazrui <7.1...@compuserve.com>   Subject: CSUN "Dueling
> Windows"
> >Sensory Access Foundation has published a "Dueling Windows"   report in
> the
> >Spring 1996 issue of Access Review.  It   summarizes a competition among
> >Windows screen readers that was   held at the 1996 CSUN conference in
> >March.  I am prefacing the   article with some tabulations I did with its
> >data.   Since the article does not quantify the performance of each
> >screen reader according to its criteria, I did such an analysis   for 

RE: contacting Doug.

[Steve Jacobson via Talk]

It is possible I am misinterpreting this note, but I really think that both 
Doug and Dan thought that the merger with AI Squared would give Window-Eyes a 
fresh burst of resources to get over the hump on changes that were very much 
needed.  Once they sold the company, even though they remained active 
employees, they would not have had a say regarding the purchase of AI Squared 
by VFO.  I remember at the time GW Micro was purchased by AI Squared, that Doug 
wrote in some context or other about the number of engineers and developers AI 
Squared had compared to GW Micro, and I think there was some real optimism 
there.  The idea of the Fusion product with Window-Eyes may have provided  the 
new market and exposure that Window-Eyes really needed.  I really don't think 
there were two mor decent people in this industry.

Best regards,

Steve Jacobson
 
-Original Message-
From: Talk [mailto:talk-boun...@lists.window-eyes.com] On Behalf Of Dennis Long 
via Talk
Sent: Tuesday, August 22, 2017 12:00 AM
To: 'Window-Eyes Discussion List' <talk@lists.window-eyes.com>
Cc: Dennis Long <dennisl1...@gmail.com>
Subject: RE: contacting Doug.

When GW sold out to AI squared that was effectively the end of WE.  Remember 
everyone has their price Dan and Doug got there price.  


-Original Message-
From: Talk [mailto:talk-boun...@lists.window-eyes.com] On Behalf Of Reeva Webb 
via Talk
Sent: Tuesday, August 22, 2017 12:12 AM
To: Window-Eyes Discussion List
Cc: Reeva Webb
Subject: RE: contacting Doug.

Watch fs make zt bloated and terrible with yearly updates. Oh, ai2, y'all 
shouldn't have gotten with the shark.

"the world has been against you from day one, tomorrow's never promised night 
has just begun, so sing with me we're all fucked" Walls Of Jericho

Reeva

On Aug 21, 2017 11:22 AM, "Sky Mundell via Talk" <talk@lists.window-eyes.com>
wrote:

> And Zoomtext will be getting yearly updates, and so on like JAWS does.
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Talk [mailto:talk-boun...@lists.window-eyes.com] On Behalf Of 
> Russ Kiehne via Talk
> Sent: Monday, August 21, 2017 6:50 AM
> To: Window-Eyes Discussion List
> Cc: Russ Kiehne
> Subject: Re: contacting Doug.
>
> You are correct, the article was posted for historical purposes.
> It's interesting to see how many screen readers we had back then.  
> Jaws wonthe the battle and now is king of the hill.
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Debby Franson via Talk
> Sent: Sunday, August 20, 2017 12:50 PM
> To: Window-Eyes Discussion List
> Cc: Debby Franson
> Subject: Re: contacting Doug.
>
> Hi Loy!
>
> No, I agree that the article would not be fair today, but I think this 
> article was posted for historical purposes, not anything about the 
> current day.
>
> Debby
>
> At 10:25 AM 8/19/2017, Loy via Talk wrote
> >This would not be a air comparison now, Window Eyes progressed much faster
> >than JAWS since 1996.   - Original Message -   From: Russ Kiehne
> >via Talk   To: Window-Eyes Discussion List   Cc: Russ Kiehne   Sent:
> >Saturday, August 19, 2017 9:42 AM   Subject: Re: contacting Doug.   Check
> >this out from times past!   Date:Tue, 11 Jun 1996 14:49:26 EDT   From:
> >Jamal Mazrui <7.1...@compuserve.com>   Subject: CSUN "Dueling
> Windows"
> >Sensory Access Foundation has published a "Dueling Windows"   report in
> the
> >Spring 1996 issue of Access Review.  It   summarizes a competition among
> >Windows screen readers that was   held at the 1996 CSUN conference in
> >March.  I am prefacing the   article with some tabulations I did with its
> >data.   Since the article does not quantify the performance of each
> >screen reader according to its criteria, I did such an analysis   for the
> >interest of readers.  I assigned a value of 2 for   accomplishing a task,
> 1
> >for accomplishing it with difficulty, and   0 for failing it.  If anyone
> >observes an error in my arithmetic,   please let me know.   Artic's
> >WinVision   accomplished: 7   accomplished with difficulty: 2   failed: 6
> >total points: 16   average: 1.06   Berkeley's OutSpoken for Windows
> >accomplished: 9   accomplished with difficulty: 5   failed: 1   total
> >points: 23   average: 1.53   GW Micro's Window-Eyes   accomplished: 5
> >accomplished with difficulty: 1   failed: 9   total points: 11   average:
> >.73   Henter-Joyce's JAWS for Windows   accomplished: 13   accomplished
> >with difficulty: 1   failed: 1   total points: 27   average: 1.8   IBM's
> >Screen Reader/2   accomplished: 13   accomplished with difficulty: 1
> >failed: 1   total points: 27   average: 1.8   Syntha-Voice's Window Bridge
> >accomplished: 5   accomplished with difficu

RE: contacting Doug.

[Butch Bussen via Talk]

As you bow to your statue of jaws, you are over simplifying the story a 
bit.  Merging with a i squared was not the end of we.  I was told one of 
the reasons they merged was so the company could offer a very good 
screen reader and a good large print program, Seemed like a good fit for 
both, and a good idea at the time.  The rest of this is only speculation 
on my part.  If Doug had known what a i squared was going to do, I 
wonder if the merger would have happened.  I've known Doug since 1983 
and you can't put a price on the the work and dedication he put into 
vocal-eyes and window-eyes.  It couldn't have been easy to see your 
life's work just flushed down the drain.  Doug handled all of this much 
better than I ever could have.  Of course there are financial reasons 
and the law suit certainly hurt gw micro.  I don't recall the guys name, 
but I read somewhere that the head of a squared is now a big wig at vfo.
 Again, above is speculation on my part, but does make one wonder.  Was 
this a squared's  plan all along?

73
Butch
WA0VJR
Node 3148
Wallace, ks.


On Tue, 22 Aug 2017, Dennis Long via 
Talk wrote:



When GW sold out to AI squared that was effectively the end of WE.  Remember 
everyone has their price Dan and Doug got there price.


-Original Message-
From: Talk [mailto:talk-boun...@lists.window-eyes.com] On Behalf Of Reeva Webb 
via Talk
Sent: Tuesday, August 22, 2017 12:12 AM
To: Window-Eyes Discussion List
Cc: Reeva Webb
Subject: RE: contacting Doug.

Watch fs make zt bloated and terrible with yearly updates. Oh, ai2, y'all 
shouldn't have gotten with the shark.

"the world has been against you from day one, tomorrow's never promised night has 
just begun, so sing with me we're all fucked" Walls Of Jericho

Reeva

On Aug 21, 2017 11:22 AM, "Sky Mundell via Talk" <talk@lists.window-eyes.com>
wrote:


And Zoomtext will be getting yearly updates, and so on like JAWS does.

-Original Message-
From: Talk [mailto:talk-boun...@lists.window-eyes.com] On Behalf Of
Russ Kiehne via Talk
Sent: Monday, August 21, 2017 6:50 AM
To: Window-Eyes Discussion List
Cc: Russ Kiehne
Subject: Re: contacting Doug.

You are correct, the article was posted for historical purposes.
It's interesting to see how many screen readers we had back then.
Jaws wonthe the battle and now is king of the hill.

-Original Message-
From: Debby Franson via Talk
Sent: Sunday, August 20, 2017 12:50 PM
To: Window-Eyes Discussion List
Cc: Debby Franson
Subject: Re: contacting Doug.

Hi Loy!

No, I agree that the article would not be fair today, but I think this
article was posted for historical purposes, not anything about the
current day.

Debby

At 10:25 AM 8/19/2017, Loy via Talk wrote

This would not be a air comparison now, Window Eyes progressed much faster
than JAWS since 1996.   - Original Message -   From: Russ Kiehne
via Talk   To: Window-Eyes Discussion List   Cc: Russ Kiehne   Sent:
Saturday, August 19, 2017 9:42 AM   Subject: Re: contacting Doug.   Check
this out from times past!   Date:Tue, 11 Jun 1996 14:49:26 EDT   From:
Jamal Mazrui <7.1...@compuserve.com>   Subject: CSUN "Dueling

Windows"

Sensory Access Foundation has published a "Dueling Windows"   report in

the

Spring 1996 issue of Access Review.  It   summarizes a competition among
Windows screen readers that was   held at the 1996 CSUN conference in
March.  I am prefacing the   article with some tabulations I did with its
data.   Since the article does not quantify the performance of each
screen reader according to its criteria, I did such an analysis   for the
interest of readers.  I assigned a value of 2 for   accomplishing a task,

1

for accomplishing it with difficulty, and   0 for failing it.  If anyone
observes an error in my arithmetic,   please let me know.   Artic's
WinVision   accomplished: 7   accomplished with difficulty: 2   failed: 6
total points: 16   average: 1.06   Berkeley's OutSpoken for Windows
accomplished: 9   accomplished with difficulty: 5   failed: 1   total
points: 23   average: 1.53   GW Micro's Window-Eyes   accomplished: 5
accomplished with difficulty: 1   failed: 9   total points: 11   average:
.73   Henter-Joyce's JAWS for Windows   accomplished: 13   accomplished
with difficulty: 1   failed: 1   total points: 27   average: 1.8   IBM's
Screen Reader/2   accomplished: 13   accomplished with difficulty: 1
failed: 1   total points: 27   average: 1.8   Syntha-Voice's Window Bridge
accomplished: 5   accomplished with difficulty: 4   failed: 6   total
points: 14   average: .93   TeleSensory's Screen Power for Windows
accomplished: 5   accomplished with difficulty: 7   failed: 3   total
points: 17   average: 1.13   Based solely on this analysis, JAWS for
Windows and Screen   Reader/2 were tied for top.  They were followed by
OutSpoken for   Windows, Screen Power for Windows, WinVision, Window

Bridge

and Window-Eyes.   Let me rem

Re: contacting Doug.

[Tom Kingston via Talk]

You have no idea what you're talking about! Life isn't always so simple.

On 8/22/2017 12:59 AM, Dennis Long via Talk wrote:

When GW sold out to AI squared that was effectively the end of WE.  Remember 
everyone has their price Dan and Doug got there price.


-Original Message-
From: Talk [mailto:talk-boun...@lists.window-eyes.com] On Behalf Of Reeva Webb 
via Talk
Sent: Tuesday, August 22, 2017 12:12 AM
To: Window-Eyes Discussion List
Cc: Reeva Webb
Subject: RE: contacting Doug.

Watch fs make zt bloated and terrible with yearly updates. Oh, ai2, y'all 
shouldn't have gotten with the shark.

"the world has been against you from day one, tomorrow's never promised night has 
just begun, so sing with me we're all fucked" Walls Of Jericho

Reeva

On Aug 21, 2017 11:22 AM, "Sky Mundell via Talk" <talk@lists.window-eyes.com>
wrote:


And Zoomtext will be getting yearly updates, and so on like JAWS does.

-Original Message-
From: Talk [mailto:talk-boun...@lists.window-eyes.com] On Behalf Of
Russ Kiehne via Talk
Sent: Monday, August 21, 2017 6:50 AM
To: Window-Eyes Discussion List
Cc: Russ Kiehne
Subject: Re: contacting Doug.

 You are correct, the article was posted for historical purposes.
It's interesting to see how many screen readers we had back then.
Jaws wonthe the battle and now is king of the hill.

-Original Message-
From: Debby Franson via Talk
Sent: Sunday, August 20, 2017 12:50 PM
To: Window-Eyes Discussion List
Cc: Debby Franson
Subject: Re: contacting Doug.

Hi Loy!

No, I agree that the article would not be fair today, but I think this
article was posted for historical purposes, not anything about the
current day.

Debby

At 10:25 AM 8/19/2017, Loy via Talk wrote

This would not be a air comparison now, Window Eyes progressed much faster
than JAWS since 1996.   - Original Message -   From: Russ Kiehne
via Talk   To: Window-Eyes Discussion List   Cc: Russ Kiehne   Sent:
Saturday, August 19, 2017 9:42 AM   Subject: Re: contacting Doug.   Check
this out from times past!   Date:Tue, 11 Jun 1996 14:49:26 EDT   From:
Jamal Mazrui <7.1...@compuserve.com>   Subject: CSUN "Dueling

Windows"

Sensory Access Foundation has published a "Dueling Windows"   report in

the

Spring 1996 issue of Access Review.  It   summarizes a competition among
Windows screen readers that was   held at the 1996 CSUN conference in
March.  I am prefacing the   article with some tabulations I did with its
data.   Since the article does not quantify the performance of each
screen reader according to its criteria, I did such an analysis   for the
interest of readers.  I assigned a value of 2 for   accomplishing a task,

1

for accomplishing it with difficulty, and   0 for failing it.  If anyone
observes an error in my arithmetic,   please let me know.   Artic's
WinVision   accomplished: 7   accomplished with difficulty: 2   failed: 6
total points: 16   average: 1.06   Berkeley's OutSpoken for Windows
accomplished: 9   accomplished with difficulty: 5   failed: 1   total
points: 23   average: 1.53   GW Micro's Window-Eyes   accomplished: 5
accomplished with difficulty: 1   failed: 9   total points: 11   average:
.73   Henter-Joyce's JAWS for Windows   accomplished: 13   accomplished
with difficulty: 1   failed: 1   total points: 27   average: 1.8   IBM's
Screen Reader/2   accomplished: 13   accomplished with difficulty: 1
failed: 1   total points: 27   average: 1.8   Syntha-Voice's Window Bridge
accomplished: 5   accomplished with difficulty: 4   failed: 6   total
points: 14   average: .93   TeleSensory's Screen Power for Windows
accomplished: 5   accomplished with difficulty: 7   failed: 3   total
points: 17   average: 1.13   Based solely on this analysis, JAWS for
Windows and Screen   Reader/2 were tied for top.  They were followed by
OutSpoken for   Windows, Screen Power for Windows, WinVision, Window

Bridge

and Window-Eyes.   Let me remind readers that Windows access products are
rapidly   developing so that new versions might lead to significantly
different results today.  In fact, some developers have already   made
enhancements to address problems encountered at this
competition.   --Dueling Windows:  An Overviewby
Kenneth Frasse(re-printed with permission of Sensory Access
Foundationfrom Access Review, Vol. I, No. 1, Spring 1996)
Abstract   In March, at the CSUN International Conference on Technology

and

Persons with Disabilities held in Los Angeles, California, Mark   Nelson

of

the Foundation for Blind Children hosted a pre-conference   seminar called
"Dueling Windows".  This seminar attempted to   contrast and compare
graphical user interface (GUI) screen review   software in applications

for

Windows.  The format of the seminar   was to pose identical tasks to each
of the vendors in alternating   order and have the vendors demonstrate the
ability of their   produ

RE: contacting Doug.

[Dennis Long via Talk]

I don't see how.  The company name changed to AI Squared.

-Original Message-
From: Talk [mailto:talk-boun...@lists.window-eyes.com] On Behalf Of Sky Mundell 
via Talk
Sent: Tuesday, August 22, 2017 1:34 AM
To: 'Window-Eyes Discussion List'
Cc: Sky Mundell
Subject: RE: contacting Doug.

So they couldn't control Window-Eyes or anything.

-Original Message-
From: Talk [mailto:talk-boun...@lists.window-eyes.com] On Behalf Of Dennis Long 
via Talk
Sent: Monday, August 21, 2017 10:22 PM
To: 'Window-Eyes Discussion List'
Cc: Dennis Long
Subject: RE: contacting Doug.

Simple at that point they had no control over anything.  They couldn't control  
what AI squared did.

-Original Message-
From: Talk [mailto:talk-boun...@lists.window-eyes.com] On Behalf Of Sky Mundell 
via Talk
Sent: Tuesday, August 22, 2017 1:20 AM
To: 'Window-Eyes Discussion List'
Cc: Sky Mundell
Subject: RE: contacting Doug.

How do you know it was the end when they sold out?

-Original Message-
From: Talk [mailto:talk-boun...@lists.window-eyes.com] On Behalf Of Dennis Long 
via Talk
Sent: Monday, August 21, 2017 10:00 PM
To: 'Window-Eyes Discussion List'
Cc: Dennis Long
Subject: RE: contacting Doug.

When GW sold out to AI squared that was effectively the end of WE.  Remember 
everyone has their price Dan and Doug got there price.  


-Original Message-
From: Talk [mailto:talk-boun...@lists.window-eyes.com] On Behalf Of Reeva Webb 
via Talk
Sent: Tuesday, August 22, 2017 12:12 AM
To: Window-Eyes Discussion List
Cc: Reeva Webb
Subject: RE: contacting Doug.

Watch fs make zt bloated and terrible with yearly updates. Oh, ai2, y'all 
shouldn't have gotten with the shark.

"the world has been against you from day one, tomorrow's never promised night 
has just begun, so sing with me we're all fucked" Walls Of Jericho

Reeva

On Aug 21, 2017 11:22 AM, "Sky Mundell via Talk" <talk@lists.window-eyes.com>
wrote:

> And Zoomtext will be getting yearly updates, and so on like JAWS does.
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Talk [mailto:talk-boun...@lists.window-eyes.com] On Behalf Of 
> Russ Kiehne via Talk
> Sent: Monday, August 21, 2017 6:50 AM
> To: Window-Eyes Discussion List
> Cc: Russ Kiehne
> Subject: Re: contacting Doug.
>
> You are correct, the article was posted for historical purposes.
> It's interesting to see how many screen readers we had back then.  
> Jaws wonthe the battle and now is king of the hill.
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Debby Franson via Talk
> Sent: Sunday, August 20, 2017 12:50 PM
> To: Window-Eyes Discussion List
> Cc: Debby Franson
> Subject: Re: contacting Doug.
>
> Hi Loy!
>
> No, I agree that the article would not be fair today, but I think this 
> article was posted for historical purposes, not anything about the 
> current day.
>
> Debby
>
> At 10:25 AM 8/19/2017, Loy via Talk wrote
> >This would not be a air comparison now, Window Eyes progressed much faster
> >than JAWS since 1996.   - Original Message -   From: Russ Kiehne
> >via Talk   To: Window-Eyes Discussion List   Cc: Russ Kiehne   Sent:
> >Saturday, August 19, 2017 9:42 AM   Subject: Re: contacting Doug.   Check
> >this out from times past!   Date:Tue, 11 Jun 1996 14:49:26 EDT   From:
> >Jamal Mazrui <7.1...@compuserve.com>   Subject: CSUN "Dueling
> Windows"
> >Sensory Access Foundation has published a "Dueling Windows"   report in
> the
> >Spring 1996 issue of Access Review.  It   summarizes a competition among
> >Windows screen readers that was   held at the 1996 CSUN conference in
> >March.  I am prefacing the   article with some tabulations I did with its
> >data.   Since the article does not quantify the performance of each
> >screen reader according to its criteria, I did such an analysis   for the
> >interest of readers.  I assigned a value of 2 for   accomplishing a task,
> 1
> >for accomplishing it with difficulty, and   0 for failing it.  If anyone
> >observes an error in my arithmetic,   please let me know.   Artic's
> >WinVision   accomplished: 7   accomplished with difficulty: 2   failed: 6
> >total points: 16   average: 1.06   Berkeley's OutSpoken for Windows
> >accomplished: 9   accomplished with difficulty: 5   failed: 1   total
> >points: 23   average: 1.53   GW Micro's Window-Eyes   accomplished: 5
> >accomplished with difficulty: 1   failed: 9   total points: 11   average:
> >.73   Henter-Joyce's JAWS for Windows   accomplished: 13   accomplished
> >with difficulty: 1   failed: 1   total points: 27   average: 1.8   IBM's
> >Screen Reader/2   accomplished: 13   accomplished with difficulty: 1
> >failed: 1   total points: 27   average: 1.8   Syntha-Voice's Window Bridge
>

RE: contacting Doug.

[Sky Mundell via Talk]

So they couldn't control Window-Eyes or anything.

-Original Message-
From: Talk [mailto:talk-boun...@lists.window-eyes.com] On Behalf Of Dennis Long 
via Talk
Sent: Monday, August 21, 2017 10:22 PM
To: 'Window-Eyes Discussion List'
Cc: Dennis Long
Subject: RE: contacting Doug.

Simple at that point they had no control over anything.  They couldn't control  
what AI squared did.

-Original Message-
From: Talk [mailto:talk-boun...@lists.window-eyes.com] On Behalf Of Sky Mundell 
via Talk
Sent: Tuesday, August 22, 2017 1:20 AM
To: 'Window-Eyes Discussion List'
Cc: Sky Mundell
Subject: RE: contacting Doug.

How do you know it was the end when they sold out?

-Original Message-
From: Talk [mailto:talk-boun...@lists.window-eyes.com] On Behalf Of Dennis Long 
via Talk
Sent: Monday, August 21, 2017 10:00 PM
To: 'Window-Eyes Discussion List'
Cc: Dennis Long
Subject: RE: contacting Doug.

When GW sold out to AI squared that was effectively the end of WE.  Remember 
everyone has their price Dan and Doug got there price.  


-Original Message-
From: Talk [mailto:talk-boun...@lists.window-eyes.com] On Behalf Of Reeva Webb 
via Talk
Sent: Tuesday, August 22, 2017 12:12 AM
To: Window-Eyes Discussion List
Cc: Reeva Webb
Subject: RE: contacting Doug.

Watch fs make zt bloated and terrible with yearly updates. Oh, ai2, y'all 
shouldn't have gotten with the shark.

"the world has been against you from day one, tomorrow's never promised night 
has just begun, so sing with me we're all fucked" Walls Of Jericho

Reeva

On Aug 21, 2017 11:22 AM, "Sky Mundell via Talk" <talk@lists.window-eyes.com>
wrote:

> And Zoomtext will be getting yearly updates, and so on like JAWS does.
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Talk [mailto:talk-boun...@lists.window-eyes.com] On Behalf Of 
> Russ Kiehne via Talk
> Sent: Monday, August 21, 2017 6:50 AM
> To: Window-Eyes Discussion List
> Cc: Russ Kiehne
> Subject: Re: contacting Doug.
>
> You are correct, the article was posted for historical purposes.
> It's interesting to see how many screen readers we had back then.  
> Jaws wonthe the battle and now is king of the hill.
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Debby Franson via Talk
> Sent: Sunday, August 20, 2017 12:50 PM
> To: Window-Eyes Discussion List
> Cc: Debby Franson
> Subject: Re: contacting Doug.
>
> Hi Loy!
>
> No, I agree that the article would not be fair today, but I think this 
> article was posted for historical purposes, not anything about the 
> current day.
>
> Debby
>
> At 10:25 AM 8/19/2017, Loy via Talk wrote
> >This would not be a air comparison now, Window Eyes progressed much faster
> >than JAWS since 1996.   - Original Message -   From: Russ Kiehne
> >via Talk   To: Window-Eyes Discussion List   Cc: Russ Kiehne   Sent:
> >Saturday, August 19, 2017 9:42 AM   Subject: Re: contacting Doug.   Check
> >this out from times past!   Date:Tue, 11 Jun 1996 14:49:26 EDT   From:
> >Jamal Mazrui <7.1...@compuserve.com>   Subject: CSUN "Dueling
> Windows"
> >Sensory Access Foundation has published a "Dueling Windows"   report in
> the
> >Spring 1996 issue of Access Review.  It   summarizes a competition among
> >Windows screen readers that was   held at the 1996 CSUN conference in
> >March.  I am prefacing the   article with some tabulations I did with its
> >data.   Since the article does not quantify the performance of each
> >screen reader according to its criteria, I did such an analysis   for the
> >interest of readers.  I assigned a value of 2 for   accomplishing a task,
> 1
> >for accomplishing it with difficulty, and   0 for failing it.  If anyone
> >observes an error in my arithmetic,   please let me know.   Artic's
> >WinVision   accomplished: 7   accomplished with difficulty: 2   failed: 6
> >total points: 16   average: 1.06   Berkeley's OutSpoken for Windows
> >accomplished: 9   accomplished with difficulty: 5   failed: 1   total
> >points: 23   average: 1.53   GW Micro's Window-Eyes   accomplished: 5
> >accomplished with difficulty: 1   failed: 9   total points: 11   average:
> >.73   Henter-Joyce's JAWS for Windows   accomplished: 13   accomplished
> >with difficulty: 1   failed: 1   total points: 27   average: 1.8   IBM's
> >Screen Reader/2   accomplished: 13   accomplished with difficulty: 1
> >failed: 1   total points: 27   average: 1.8   Syntha-Voice's Window Bridge
> >accomplished: 5   accomplished with difficulty: 4   failed: 6   total
> >points: 14   average: .93   TeleSensory's Screen Power for Windows
> >accomplished: 5   accomplished with difficulty: 7   failed: 3   total
> >points: 17   average: 1.13   Based solely on this analy

RE: contacting Doug.

[Dennis Long via Talk]

Simple at that point they had no control over anything.  They couldn't control  
what AI squared did.

-Original Message-
From: Talk [mailto:talk-boun...@lists.window-eyes.com] On Behalf Of Sky Mundell 
via Talk
Sent: Tuesday, August 22, 2017 1:20 AM
To: 'Window-Eyes Discussion List'
Cc: Sky Mundell
Subject: RE: contacting Doug.

How do you know it was the end when they sold out?

-Original Message-
From: Talk [mailto:talk-boun...@lists.window-eyes.com] On Behalf Of Dennis Long 
via Talk
Sent: Monday, August 21, 2017 10:00 PM
To: 'Window-Eyes Discussion List'
Cc: Dennis Long
Subject: RE: contacting Doug.

When GW sold out to AI squared that was effectively the end of WE.  Remember 
everyone has their price Dan and Doug got there price.  


-Original Message-
From: Talk [mailto:talk-boun...@lists.window-eyes.com] On Behalf Of Reeva Webb 
via Talk
Sent: Tuesday, August 22, 2017 12:12 AM
To: Window-Eyes Discussion List
Cc: Reeva Webb
Subject: RE: contacting Doug.

Watch fs make zt bloated and terrible with yearly updates. Oh, ai2, y'all 
shouldn't have gotten with the shark.

"the world has been against you from day one, tomorrow's never promised night 
has just begun, so sing with me we're all fucked" Walls Of Jericho

Reeva

On Aug 21, 2017 11:22 AM, "Sky Mundell via Talk" <talk@lists.window-eyes.com>
wrote:

> And Zoomtext will be getting yearly updates, and so on like JAWS does.
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Talk [mailto:talk-boun...@lists.window-eyes.com] On Behalf Of 
> Russ Kiehne via Talk
> Sent: Monday, August 21, 2017 6:50 AM
> To: Window-Eyes Discussion List
> Cc: Russ Kiehne
> Subject: Re: contacting Doug.
>
> You are correct, the article was posted for historical purposes.
> It's interesting to see how many screen readers we had back then.  
> Jaws wonthe the battle and now is king of the hill.
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Debby Franson via Talk
> Sent: Sunday, August 20, 2017 12:50 PM
> To: Window-Eyes Discussion List
> Cc: Debby Franson
> Subject: Re: contacting Doug.
>
> Hi Loy!
>
> No, I agree that the article would not be fair today, but I think this 
> article was posted for historical purposes, not anything about the 
> current day.
>
> Debby
>
> At 10:25 AM 8/19/2017, Loy via Talk wrote
> >This would not be a air comparison now, Window Eyes progressed much faster
> >than JAWS since 1996.   - Original Message -   From: Russ Kiehne
> >via Talk   To: Window-Eyes Discussion List   Cc: Russ Kiehne   Sent:
> >Saturday, August 19, 2017 9:42 AM   Subject: Re: contacting Doug.   Check
> >this out from times past!   Date:Tue, 11 Jun 1996 14:49:26 EDT   From:
> >Jamal Mazrui <7.1...@compuserve.com>   Subject: CSUN "Dueling
> Windows"
> >Sensory Access Foundation has published a "Dueling Windows"   report in
> the
> >Spring 1996 issue of Access Review.  It   summarizes a competition among
> >Windows screen readers that was   held at the 1996 CSUN conference in
> >March.  I am prefacing the   article with some tabulations I did with its
> >data.   Since the article does not quantify the performance of each
> >screen reader according to its criteria, I did such an analysis   for the
> >interest of readers.  I assigned a value of 2 for   accomplishing a task,
> 1
> >for accomplishing it with difficulty, and   0 for failing it.  If anyone
> >observes an error in my arithmetic,   please let me know.   Artic's
> >WinVision   accomplished: 7   accomplished with difficulty: 2   failed: 6
> >total points: 16   average: 1.06   Berkeley's OutSpoken for Windows
> >accomplished: 9   accomplished with difficulty: 5   failed: 1   total
> >points: 23   average: 1.53   GW Micro's Window-Eyes   accomplished: 5
> >accomplished with difficulty: 1   failed: 9   total points: 11   average:
> >.73   Henter-Joyce's JAWS for Windows   accomplished: 13   accomplished
> >with difficulty: 1   failed: 1   total points: 27   average: 1.8   IBM's
> >Screen Reader/2   accomplished: 13   accomplished with difficulty: 1
> >failed: 1   total points: 27   average: 1.8   Syntha-Voice's Window Bridge
> >accomplished: 5   accomplished with difficulty: 4   failed: 6   total
> >points: 14   average: .93   TeleSensory's Screen Power for Windows
> >accomplished: 5   accomplished with difficulty: 7   failed: 3   total
> >points: 17   average: 1.13   Based solely on this analysis, JAWS for
> >Windows and Screen   Reader/2 were tied for top.  They were followed by
> >OutSpoken for   Windows, Screen Power for Windows, WinVision, Window
> Bridge
> >and Window-Eyes.   Let me remind readers that Windows access products are
> >rapidly   deve

RE: contacting Doug.

[Dennis Long via Talk]

It was a "merger" however money had to have exchanged hands.

-Original Message-
From: Talk [mailto:talk-boun...@lists.window-eyes.com] On Behalf Of Sky Mundell 
via Talk
Sent: Tuesday, August 22, 2017 1:21 AM
To: 'Window-Eyes Discussion List'
Cc: Sky Mundell
Subject: RE: contacting Doug.

When GW Micro sold out to AI Squared. Because here in Canada, I've been 
promoting the free version to organizations and some of them accepted it.

-Original Message-
From: Talk [mailto:talk-boun...@lists.window-eyes.com] On Behalf Of Dennis Long 
via Talk
Sent: Monday, August 21, 2017 10:00 PM
To: 'Window-Eyes Discussion List'
Cc: Dennis Long
Subject: RE: contacting Doug.

When GW sold out to AI squared that was effectively the end of WE.  Remember 
everyone has their price Dan and Doug got there price.  


-Original Message-
From: Talk [mailto:talk-boun...@lists.window-eyes.com] On Behalf Of Reeva Webb 
via Talk
Sent: Tuesday, August 22, 2017 12:12 AM
To: Window-Eyes Discussion List
Cc: Reeva Webb
Subject: RE: contacting Doug.

Watch fs make zt bloated and terrible with yearly updates. Oh, ai2, y'all 
shouldn't have gotten with the shark.

"the world has been against you from day one, tomorrow's never promised night 
has just begun, so sing with me we're all fucked" Walls Of Jericho

Reeva

On Aug 21, 2017 11:22 AM, "Sky Mundell via Talk" <talk@lists.window-eyes.com>
wrote:

> And Zoomtext will be getting yearly updates, and so on like JAWS does.
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Talk [mailto:talk-boun...@lists.window-eyes.com] On Behalf Of 
> Russ Kiehne via Talk
> Sent: Monday, August 21, 2017 6:50 AM
> To: Window-Eyes Discussion List
> Cc: Russ Kiehne
> Subject: Re: contacting Doug.
>
> You are correct, the article was posted for historical purposes.
> It's interesting to see how many screen readers we had back then.  
> Jaws wonthe the battle and now is king of the hill.
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Debby Franson via Talk
> Sent: Sunday, August 20, 2017 12:50 PM
> To: Window-Eyes Discussion List
> Cc: Debby Franson
> Subject: Re: contacting Doug.
>
> Hi Loy!
>
> No, I agree that the article would not be fair today, but I think this 
> article was posted for historical purposes, not anything about the 
> current day.
>
> Debby
>
> At 10:25 AM 8/19/2017, Loy via Talk wrote
> >This would not be a air comparison now, Window Eyes progressed much faster
> >than JAWS since 1996.   - Original Message -   From: Russ Kiehne
> >via Talk   To: Window-Eyes Discussion List   Cc: Russ Kiehne   Sent:
> >Saturday, August 19, 2017 9:42 AM   Subject: Re: contacting Doug.   Check
> >this out from times past!   Date:Tue, 11 Jun 1996 14:49:26 EDT   From:
> >Jamal Mazrui <7.1...@compuserve.com>   Subject: CSUN "Dueling
> Windows"
> >Sensory Access Foundation has published a "Dueling Windows"   report in
> the
> >Spring 1996 issue of Access Review.  It   summarizes a competition among
> >Windows screen readers that was   held at the 1996 CSUN conference in
> >March.  I am prefacing the   article with some tabulations I did with its
> >data.   Since the article does not quantify the performance of each
> >screen reader according to its criteria, I did such an analysis   for the
> >interest of readers.  I assigned a value of 2 for   accomplishing a task,
> 1
> >for accomplishing it with difficulty, and   0 for failing it.  If anyone
> >observes an error in my arithmetic,   please let me know.   Artic's
> >WinVision   accomplished: 7   accomplished with difficulty: 2   failed: 6
> >total points: 16   average: 1.06   Berkeley's OutSpoken for Windows
> >accomplished: 9   accomplished with difficulty: 5   failed: 1   total
> >points: 23   average: 1.53   GW Micro's Window-Eyes   accomplished: 5
> >accomplished with difficulty: 1   failed: 9   total points: 11   average:
> >.73   Henter-Joyce's JAWS for Windows   accomplished: 13   accomplished
> >with difficulty: 1   failed: 1   total points: 27   average: 1.8   IBM's
> >Screen Reader/2   accomplished: 13   accomplished with difficulty: 1
> >failed: 1   total points: 27   average: 1.8   Syntha-Voice's Window Bridge
> >accomplished: 5   accomplished with difficulty: 4   failed: 6   total
> >points: 14   average: .93   TeleSensory's Screen Power for Windows
> >accomplished: 5   accomplished with difficulty: 7   failed: 3   total
> >points: 17   average: 1.13   Based solely on this analysis, JAWS for
> >Windows and Screen   Reader/2 were tied for top.  They were followed by
> >OutSpoken for   Windows, Screen Power for Windows, WinVision, Window
> Bridge
> >and Window-Eyes.   Let me remin

RE: contacting Doug.

[Sky Mundell via Talk]

When GW Micro sold out to AI Squared. Because here in Canada, I've been 
promoting the free version to organizations and some of them accepted it.

-Original Message-
From: Talk [mailto:talk-boun...@lists.window-eyes.com] On Behalf Of Dennis Long 
via Talk
Sent: Monday, August 21, 2017 10:00 PM
To: 'Window-Eyes Discussion List'
Cc: Dennis Long
Subject: RE: contacting Doug.

When GW sold out to AI squared that was effectively the end of WE.  Remember 
everyone has their price Dan and Doug got there price.  


-Original Message-
From: Talk [mailto:talk-boun...@lists.window-eyes.com] On Behalf Of Reeva Webb 
via Talk
Sent: Tuesday, August 22, 2017 12:12 AM
To: Window-Eyes Discussion List
Cc: Reeva Webb
Subject: RE: contacting Doug.

Watch fs make zt bloated and terrible with yearly updates. Oh, ai2, y'all 
shouldn't have gotten with the shark.

"the world has been against you from day one, tomorrow's never promised night 
has just begun, so sing with me we're all fucked" Walls Of Jericho

Reeva

On Aug 21, 2017 11:22 AM, "Sky Mundell via Talk" <talk@lists.window-eyes.com>
wrote:

> And Zoomtext will be getting yearly updates, and so on like JAWS does.
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Talk [mailto:talk-boun...@lists.window-eyes.com] On Behalf Of 
> Russ Kiehne via Talk
> Sent: Monday, August 21, 2017 6:50 AM
> To: Window-Eyes Discussion List
> Cc: Russ Kiehne
> Subject: Re: contacting Doug.
>
> You are correct, the article was posted for historical purposes.
> It's interesting to see how many screen readers we had back then.  
> Jaws wonthe the battle and now is king of the hill.
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Debby Franson via Talk
> Sent: Sunday, August 20, 2017 12:50 PM
> To: Window-Eyes Discussion List
> Cc: Debby Franson
> Subject: Re: contacting Doug.
>
> Hi Loy!
>
> No, I agree that the article would not be fair today, but I think this 
> article was posted for historical purposes, not anything about the 
> current day.
>
> Debby
>
> At 10:25 AM 8/19/2017, Loy via Talk wrote
> >This would not be a air comparison now, Window Eyes progressed much faster
> >than JAWS since 1996.   - Original Message -   From: Russ Kiehne
> >via Talk   To: Window-Eyes Discussion List   Cc: Russ Kiehne   Sent:
> >Saturday, August 19, 2017 9:42 AM   Subject: Re: contacting Doug.   Check
> >this out from times past!   Date:Tue, 11 Jun 1996 14:49:26 EDT   From:
> >Jamal Mazrui <7.1...@compuserve.com>   Subject: CSUN "Dueling
> Windows"
> >Sensory Access Foundation has published a "Dueling Windows"   report in
> the
> >Spring 1996 issue of Access Review.  It   summarizes a competition among
> >Windows screen readers that was   held at the 1996 CSUN conference in
> >March.  I am prefacing the   article with some tabulations I did with its
> >data.   Since the article does not quantify the performance of each
> >screen reader according to its criteria, I did such an analysis   for the
> >interest of readers.  I assigned a value of 2 for   accomplishing a task,
> 1
> >for accomplishing it with difficulty, and   0 for failing it.  If anyone
> >observes an error in my arithmetic,   please let me know.   Artic's
> >WinVision   accomplished: 7   accomplished with difficulty: 2   failed: 6
> >total points: 16   average: 1.06   Berkeley's OutSpoken for Windows
> >accomplished: 9   accomplished with difficulty: 5   failed: 1   total
> >points: 23   average: 1.53   GW Micro's Window-Eyes   accomplished: 5
> >accomplished with difficulty: 1   failed: 9   total points: 11   average:
> >.73   Henter-Joyce's JAWS for Windows   accomplished: 13   accomplished
> >with difficulty: 1   failed: 1   total points: 27   average: 1.8   IBM's
> >Screen Reader/2   accomplished: 13   accomplished with difficulty: 1
> >failed: 1   total points: 27   average: 1.8   Syntha-Voice's Window Bridge
> >accomplished: 5   accomplished with difficulty: 4   failed: 6   total
> >points: 14   average: .93   TeleSensory's Screen Power for Windows
> >accomplished: 5   accomplished with difficulty: 7   failed: 3   total
> >points: 17   average: 1.13   Based solely on this analysis, JAWS for
> >Windows and Screen   Reader/2 were tied for top.  They were followed by
> >OutSpoken for   Windows, Screen Power for Windows, WinVision, Window
> Bridge
> >and Window-Eyes.   Let me remind readers that Windows access products are
> >rapidly   developing so that new versions might lead to significantly
> >different results today.  In fact, some developers have already   made
> >enhancements to address problems encountered at this
> >competition.   --Dueli

RE: contacting Doug.

[Sky Mundell via Talk]

How do you know it was the end when they sold out?

-Original Message-
From: Talk [mailto:talk-boun...@lists.window-eyes.com] On Behalf Of Dennis Long 
via Talk
Sent: Monday, August 21, 2017 10:00 PM
To: 'Window-Eyes Discussion List'
Cc: Dennis Long
Subject: RE: contacting Doug.

When GW sold out to AI squared that was effectively the end of WE.  Remember 
everyone has their price Dan and Doug got there price.  


-Original Message-
From: Talk [mailto:talk-boun...@lists.window-eyes.com] On Behalf Of Reeva Webb 
via Talk
Sent: Tuesday, August 22, 2017 12:12 AM
To: Window-Eyes Discussion List
Cc: Reeva Webb
Subject: RE: contacting Doug.

Watch fs make zt bloated and terrible with yearly updates. Oh, ai2, y'all 
shouldn't have gotten with the shark.

"the world has been against you from day one, tomorrow's never promised night 
has just begun, so sing with me we're all fucked" Walls Of Jericho

Reeva

On Aug 21, 2017 11:22 AM, "Sky Mundell via Talk" <talk@lists.window-eyes.com>
wrote:

> And Zoomtext will be getting yearly updates, and so on like JAWS does.
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Talk [mailto:talk-boun...@lists.window-eyes.com] On Behalf Of 
> Russ Kiehne via Talk
> Sent: Monday, August 21, 2017 6:50 AM
> To: Window-Eyes Discussion List
> Cc: Russ Kiehne
> Subject: Re: contacting Doug.
>
> You are correct, the article was posted for historical purposes.
> It's interesting to see how many screen readers we had back then.  
> Jaws wonthe the battle and now is king of the hill.
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Debby Franson via Talk
> Sent: Sunday, August 20, 2017 12:50 PM
> To: Window-Eyes Discussion List
> Cc: Debby Franson
> Subject: Re: contacting Doug.
>
> Hi Loy!
>
> No, I agree that the article would not be fair today, but I think this 
> article was posted for historical purposes, not anything about the 
> current day.
>
> Debby
>
> At 10:25 AM 8/19/2017, Loy via Talk wrote
> >This would not be a air comparison now, Window Eyes progressed much faster
> >than JAWS since 1996.   - Original Message -   From: Russ Kiehne
> >via Talk   To: Window-Eyes Discussion List   Cc: Russ Kiehne   Sent:
> >Saturday, August 19, 2017 9:42 AM   Subject: Re: contacting Doug.   Check
> >this out from times past!   Date:Tue, 11 Jun 1996 14:49:26 EDT   From:
> >Jamal Mazrui <7.1...@compuserve.com>   Subject: CSUN "Dueling
> Windows"
> >Sensory Access Foundation has published a "Dueling Windows"   report in
> the
> >Spring 1996 issue of Access Review.  It   summarizes a competition among
> >Windows screen readers that was   held at the 1996 CSUN conference in
> >March.  I am prefacing the   article with some tabulations I did with its
> >data.   Since the article does not quantify the performance of each
> >screen reader according to its criteria, I did such an analysis   for the
> >interest of readers.  I assigned a value of 2 for   accomplishing a task,
> 1
> >for accomplishing it with difficulty, and   0 for failing it.  If anyone
> >observes an error in my arithmetic,   please let me know.   Artic's
> >WinVision   accomplished: 7   accomplished with difficulty: 2   failed: 6
> >total points: 16   average: 1.06   Berkeley's OutSpoken for Windows
> >accomplished: 9   accomplished with difficulty: 5   failed: 1   total
> >points: 23   average: 1.53   GW Micro's Window-Eyes   accomplished: 5
> >accomplished with difficulty: 1   failed: 9   total points: 11   average:
> >.73   Henter-Joyce's JAWS for Windows   accomplished: 13   accomplished
> >with difficulty: 1   failed: 1   total points: 27   average: 1.8   IBM's
> >Screen Reader/2   accomplished: 13   accomplished with difficulty: 1
> >failed: 1   total points: 27   average: 1.8   Syntha-Voice's Window Bridge
> >accomplished: 5   accomplished with difficulty: 4   failed: 6   total
> >points: 14   average: .93   TeleSensory's Screen Power for Windows
> >accomplished: 5   accomplished with difficulty: 7   failed: 3   total
> >points: 17   average: 1.13   Based solely on this analysis, JAWS for
> >Windows and Screen   Reader/2 were tied for top.  They were followed by
> >OutSpoken for   Windows, Screen Power for Windows, WinVision, Window
> Bridge
> >and Window-Eyes.   Let me remind readers that Windows access products are
> >rapidly   developing so that new versions might lead to significantly
> >different results today.  In fact, some developers have already   made
> >enhancements to address problems encountered at this
> >competition.   --Dueling Windows:  An Overviewby
> >Kenneth Frasse(re-printed with permission of

RE: contacting Doug.

[Dennis Long via Talk]

When GW sold out to AI squared that was effectively the end of WE.  Remember 
everyone has their price Dan and Doug got there price.  


-Original Message-
From: Talk [mailto:talk-boun...@lists.window-eyes.com] On Behalf Of Reeva Webb 
via Talk
Sent: Tuesday, August 22, 2017 12:12 AM
To: Window-Eyes Discussion List
Cc: Reeva Webb
Subject: RE: contacting Doug.

Watch fs make zt bloated and terrible with yearly updates. Oh, ai2, y'all 
shouldn't have gotten with the shark.

"the world has been against you from day one, tomorrow's never promised night 
has just begun, so sing with me we're all fucked" Walls Of Jericho

Reeva

On Aug 21, 2017 11:22 AM, "Sky Mundell via Talk" <talk@lists.window-eyes.com>
wrote:

> And Zoomtext will be getting yearly updates, and so on like JAWS does.
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Talk [mailto:talk-boun...@lists.window-eyes.com] On Behalf Of 
> Russ Kiehne via Talk
> Sent: Monday, August 21, 2017 6:50 AM
> To: Window-Eyes Discussion List
> Cc: Russ Kiehne
> Subject: Re: contacting Doug.
>
> You are correct, the article was posted for historical purposes.
> It's interesting to see how many screen readers we had back then.  
> Jaws wonthe the battle and now is king of the hill.
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Debby Franson via Talk
> Sent: Sunday, August 20, 2017 12:50 PM
> To: Window-Eyes Discussion List
> Cc: Debby Franson
> Subject: Re: contacting Doug.
>
> Hi Loy!
>
> No, I agree that the article would not be fair today, but I think this 
> article was posted for historical purposes, not anything about the 
> current day.
>
> Debby
>
> At 10:25 AM 8/19/2017, Loy via Talk wrote
> >This would not be a air comparison now, Window Eyes progressed much faster
> >than JAWS since 1996.   - Original Message -   From: Russ Kiehne
> >via Talk   To: Window-Eyes Discussion List   Cc: Russ Kiehne   Sent:
> >Saturday, August 19, 2017 9:42 AM   Subject: Re: contacting Doug.   Check
> >this out from times past!   Date:Tue, 11 Jun 1996 14:49:26 EDT   From:
> >Jamal Mazrui <7.1...@compuserve.com>   Subject: CSUN "Dueling
> Windows"
> >Sensory Access Foundation has published a "Dueling Windows"   report in
> the
> >Spring 1996 issue of Access Review.  It   summarizes a competition among
> >Windows screen readers that was   held at the 1996 CSUN conference in
> >March.  I am prefacing the   article with some tabulations I did with its
> >data.   Since the article does not quantify the performance of each
> >screen reader according to its criteria, I did such an analysis   for the
> >interest of readers.  I assigned a value of 2 for   accomplishing a task,
> 1
> >for accomplishing it with difficulty, and   0 for failing it.  If anyone
> >observes an error in my arithmetic,   please let me know.   Artic's
> >WinVision   accomplished: 7   accomplished with difficulty: 2   failed: 6
> >total points: 16   average: 1.06   Berkeley's OutSpoken for Windows
> >accomplished: 9   accomplished with difficulty: 5   failed: 1   total
> >points: 23   average: 1.53   GW Micro's Window-Eyes   accomplished: 5
> >accomplished with difficulty: 1   failed: 9   total points: 11   average:
> >.73   Henter-Joyce's JAWS for Windows   accomplished: 13   accomplished
> >with difficulty: 1   failed: 1   total points: 27   average: 1.8   IBM's
> >Screen Reader/2   accomplished: 13   accomplished with difficulty: 1
> >failed: 1   total points: 27   average: 1.8   Syntha-Voice's Window Bridge
> >accomplished: 5   accomplished with difficulty: 4   failed: 6   total
> >points: 14   average: .93   TeleSensory's Screen Power for Windows
> >accomplished: 5   accomplished with difficulty: 7   failed: 3   total
> >points: 17   average: 1.13   Based solely on this analysis, JAWS for
> >Windows and Screen   Reader/2 were tied for top.  They were followed by
> >OutSpoken for   Windows, Screen Power for Windows, WinVision, Window
> Bridge
> >and Window-Eyes.   Let me remind readers that Windows access products are
> >rapidly   developing so that new versions might lead to significantly
> >different results today.  In fact, some developers have already   made
> >enhancements to address problems encountered at this
> >competition.   --Dueling Windows:  An Overviewby
> >Kenneth Frasse(re-printed with permission of Sensory Access
> >Foundationfrom Access Review, Vol. I, No. 1, Spring 1996)
> >Abstract   In March, at the CSUN International Conference on Technology
> and
> >Persons with Disabilities held in Los Angeles, California, Mark   Nelson
> of
&g

RE: contacting Doug.

[Sky Mundell via Talk]

Yeah and AI shouldn’t have gotten with FS. In fact, when they merged, they 
showed Fusion with Window-Eyes to agencies and they were impressed with the 
Window-Eyes version but they said they'd like to see JAWS work with Zoom text.

-Original Message-
From: Talk [mailto:talk-boun...@lists.window-eyes.com] On Behalf Of Reeva Webb 
via Talk
Sent: Monday, August 21, 2017 9:12 PM
To: Window-Eyes Discussion List
Cc: Reeva Webb
Subject: RE: contacting Doug.

Watch fs make zt bloated and terrible with yearly updates. Oh, ai2, y'all 
shouldn't have gotten with the shark.

"the world has been against you from day one, tomorrow's never promised night 
has just begun, so sing with me we're all fucked" Walls Of Jericho

Reeva

On Aug 21, 2017 11:22 AM, "Sky Mundell via Talk" <talk@lists.window-eyes.com>
wrote:

> And Zoomtext will be getting yearly updates, and so on like JAWS does.
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Talk [mailto:talk-boun...@lists.window-eyes.com] On Behalf Of 
> Russ Kiehne via Talk
> Sent: Monday, August 21, 2017 6:50 AM
> To: Window-Eyes Discussion List
> Cc: Russ Kiehne
> Subject: Re: contacting Doug.
>
> You are correct, the article was posted for historical purposes.
> It's interesting to see how many screen readers we had back then.  
> Jaws wonthe the battle and now is king of the hill.
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Debby Franson via Talk
> Sent: Sunday, August 20, 2017 12:50 PM
> To: Window-Eyes Discussion List
> Cc: Debby Franson
> Subject: Re: contacting Doug.
>
> Hi Loy!
>
> No, I agree that the article would not be fair today, but I think this 
> article was posted for historical purposes, not anything about the 
> current day.
>
> Debby
>
> At 10:25 AM 8/19/2017, Loy via Talk wrote
> >This would not be a air comparison now, Window Eyes progressed much faster
> >than JAWS since 1996.   - Original Message -   From: Russ Kiehne
> >via Talk   To: Window-Eyes Discussion List   Cc: Russ Kiehne   Sent:
> >Saturday, August 19, 2017 9:42 AM   Subject: Re: contacting Doug.   Check
> >this out from times past!   Date:Tue, 11 Jun 1996 14:49:26 EDT   From:
> >Jamal Mazrui <7.1...@compuserve.com>   Subject: CSUN "Dueling
> Windows"
> >Sensory Access Foundation has published a "Dueling Windows"   report in
> the
> >Spring 1996 issue of Access Review.  It   summarizes a competition among
> >Windows screen readers that was   held at the 1996 CSUN conference in
> >March.  I am prefacing the   article with some tabulations I did with its
> >data.   Since the article does not quantify the performance of each
> >screen reader according to its criteria, I did such an analysis   for the
> >interest of readers.  I assigned a value of 2 for   accomplishing a task,
> 1
> >for accomplishing it with difficulty, and   0 for failing it.  If anyone
> >observes an error in my arithmetic,   please let me know.   Artic's
> >WinVision   accomplished: 7   accomplished with difficulty: 2   failed: 6
> >total points: 16   average: 1.06   Berkeley's OutSpoken for Windows
> >accomplished: 9   accomplished with difficulty: 5   failed: 1   total
> >points: 23   average: 1.53   GW Micro's Window-Eyes   accomplished: 5
> >accomplished with difficulty: 1   failed: 9   total points: 11   average:
> >.73   Henter-Joyce's JAWS for Windows   accomplished: 13   accomplished
> >with difficulty: 1   failed: 1   total points: 27   average: 1.8   IBM's
> >Screen Reader/2   accomplished: 13   accomplished with difficulty: 1
> >failed: 1   total points: 27   average: 1.8   Syntha-Voice's Window Bridge
> >accomplished: 5   accomplished with difficulty: 4   failed: 6   total
> >points: 14   average: .93   TeleSensory's Screen Power for Windows
> >accomplished: 5   accomplished with difficulty: 7   failed: 3   total
> >points: 17   average: 1.13   Based solely on this analysis, JAWS for
> >Windows and Screen   Reader/2 were tied for top.  They were followed by
> >OutSpoken for   Windows, Screen Power for Windows, WinVision, Window
> Bridge
> >and Window-Eyes.   Let me remind readers that Windows access products are
> >rapidly   developing so that new versions might lead to significantly
> >different results today.  In fact, some developers have already   made
> >enhancements to address problems encountered at this
> >competition.   --Dueling Windows:  An Overviewby
> >Kenneth Frasse(re-printed with permission of Sensory Access
> >Foundationfrom Access Review, Vol. I, No. 1, Spring 1996)
> >Abstract   In March, at the CSUN International Conference on Technology
> and
>

RE: contacting Doug.

[Reeva Webb via Talk]

Watch fs make zt bloated and terrible with yearly updates. Oh, ai2, y'all
shouldn't have gotten with the shark.

"the world has been against you from day one, tomorrow's never promised
night has just begun, so sing with me we're all fucked" Walls Of Jericho

Reeva

On Aug 21, 2017 11:22 AM, "Sky Mundell via Talk" <talk@lists.window-eyes.com>
wrote:

> And Zoomtext will be getting yearly updates, and so on like JAWS does.
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Talk [mailto:talk-boun...@lists.window-eyes.com] On Behalf Of Russ
> Kiehne via Talk
> Sent: Monday, August 21, 2017 6:50 AM
> To: Window-Eyes Discussion List
> Cc: Russ Kiehne
> Subject: Re: contacting Doug.
>
> You are correct, the article was posted for historical purposes.
> It's interesting to see how many screen readers we had back then.  Jaws
> wonthe the battle and now is king of the hill.
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Debby Franson via Talk
> Sent: Sunday, August 20, 2017 12:50 PM
> To: Window-Eyes Discussion List
> Cc: Debby Franson
> Subject: Re: contacting Doug.
>
> Hi Loy!
>
> No, I agree that the article would not be fair today, but I think this
> article was posted for historical purposes, not anything about the current
> day.
>
> Debby
>
> At 10:25 AM 8/19/2017, Loy via Talk wrote
> >This would not be a air comparison now, Window Eyes progressed much faster
> >than JAWS since 1996.   - Original Message -   From: Russ Kiehne
> >via Talk   To: Window-Eyes Discussion List   Cc: Russ Kiehne   Sent:
> >Saturday, August 19, 2017 9:42 AM   Subject: Re: contacting Doug.   Check
> >this out from times past!   Date:Tue, 11 Jun 1996 14:49:26 EDT   From:
> >Jamal Mazrui <7.1...@compuserve.com>   Subject: CSUN "Dueling
> Windows"
> >Sensory Access Foundation has published a "Dueling Windows"   report in
> the
> >Spring 1996 issue of Access Review.  It   summarizes a competition among
> >Windows screen readers that was   held at the 1996 CSUN conference in
> >March.  I am prefacing the   article with some tabulations I did with its
> >data.   Since the article does not quantify the performance of each
> >screen reader according to its criteria, I did such an analysis   for the
> >interest of readers.  I assigned a value of 2 for   accomplishing a task,
> 1
> >for accomplishing it with difficulty, and   0 for failing it.  If anyone
> >observes an error in my arithmetic,   please let me know.   Artic's
> >WinVision   accomplished: 7   accomplished with difficulty: 2   failed: 6
> >total points: 16   average: 1.06   Berkeley's OutSpoken for Windows
> >accomplished: 9   accomplished with difficulty: 5   failed: 1   total
> >points: 23   average: 1.53   GW Micro's Window-Eyes   accomplished: 5
> >accomplished with difficulty: 1   failed: 9   total points: 11   average:
> >.73   Henter-Joyce's JAWS for Windows   accomplished: 13   accomplished
> >with difficulty: 1   failed: 1   total points: 27   average: 1.8   IBM's
> >Screen Reader/2   accomplished: 13   accomplished with difficulty: 1
> >failed: 1   total points: 27   average: 1.8   Syntha-Voice's Window Bridge
> >accomplished: 5   accomplished with difficulty: 4   failed: 6   total
> >points: 14   average: .93   TeleSensory's Screen Power for Windows
> >accomplished: 5   accomplished with difficulty: 7   failed: 3   total
> >points: 17   average: 1.13   Based solely on this analysis, JAWS for
> >Windows and Screen   Reader/2 were tied for top.  They were followed by
> >OutSpoken for   Windows, Screen Power for Windows, WinVision, Window
> Bridge
> >and Window-Eyes.   Let me remind readers that Windows access products are
> >rapidly   developing so that new versions might lead to significantly
> >different results today.  In fact, some developers have already   made
> >enhancements to address problems encountered at this
> >competition.   --Dueling Windows:  An Overviewby
> >Kenneth Frasse(re-printed with permission of Sensory Access
> >Foundationfrom Access Review, Vol. I, No. 1, Spring 1996)
> >Abstract   In March, at the CSUN International Conference on Technology
> and
> >Persons with Disabilities held in Los Angeles, California, Mark   Nelson
> of
> >the Foundation for Blind Children hosted a pre-conference   seminar called
> >"Dueling Windows".  This seminar attempted to   contrast and compare
> >graphical user interface (GUI) screen review   software in applications
> for
> >Windows.  The format of the seminar   was to pose identical tasks to each
> >of the vendors in alternating   order

RE: contacting Doug.

[Sky Mundell via Talk]

And Zoomtext will be getting yearly updates, and so on like JAWS does.

-Original Message-
From: Talk [mailto:talk-boun...@lists.window-eyes.com] On Behalf Of Russ Kiehne 
via Talk
Sent: Monday, August 21, 2017 6:50 AM
To: Window-Eyes Discussion List
Cc: Russ Kiehne
Subject: Re: contacting Doug.

You are correct, the article was posted for historical purposes. 
It's interesting to see how many screen readers we had back then.  Jaws wonthe 
the battle and now is king of the hill.

-Original Message-
From: Debby Franson via Talk
Sent: Sunday, August 20, 2017 12:50 PM
To: Window-Eyes Discussion List
Cc: Debby Franson
Subject: Re: contacting Doug.

Hi Loy!

No, I agree that the article would not be fair today, but I think this article 
was posted for historical purposes, not anything about the current day.

Debby

At 10:25 AM 8/19/2017, Loy via Talk wrote
>This would not be a air comparison now, Window Eyes progressed much faster 
>than JAWS since 1996.   - Original Message -   From: Russ Kiehne 
>via Talk   To: Window-Eyes Discussion List   Cc: Russ Kiehne   Sent: 
>Saturday, August 19, 2017 9:42 AM   Subject: Re: contacting Doug.   Check 
>this out from times past!   Date:Tue, 11 Jun 1996 14:49:26 EDT   From: 
>Jamal Mazrui <7.1...@compuserve.com>   Subject: CSUN "Dueling Windows" 
>Sensory Access Foundation has published a "Dueling Windows"   report in the 
>Spring 1996 issue of Access Review.  It   summarizes a competition among 
>Windows screen readers that was   held at the 1996 CSUN conference in 
>March.  I am prefacing the   article with some tabulations I did with its 
>data.   Since the article does not quantify the performance of each 
>screen reader according to its criteria, I did such an analysis   for the 
>interest of readers.  I assigned a value of 2 for   accomplishing a task, 1 
>for accomplishing it with difficulty, and   0 for failing it.  If anyone 
>observes an error in my arithmetic,   please let me know.   Artic's 
>WinVision   accomplished: 7   accomplished with difficulty: 2   failed: 6 
>total points: 16   average: 1.06   Berkeley's OutSpoken for Windows 
>accomplished: 9   accomplished with difficulty: 5   failed: 1   total 
>points: 23   average: 1.53   GW Micro's Window-Eyes   accomplished: 5 
>accomplished with difficulty: 1   failed: 9   total points: 11   average: 
>.73   Henter-Joyce's JAWS for Windows   accomplished: 13   accomplished 
>with difficulty: 1   failed: 1   total points: 27   average: 1.8   IBM's 
>Screen Reader/2   accomplished: 13   accomplished with difficulty: 1 
>failed: 1   total points: 27   average: 1.8   Syntha-Voice's Window Bridge 
>accomplished: 5   accomplished with difficulty: 4   failed: 6   total 
>points: 14   average: .93   TeleSensory's Screen Power for Windows 
>accomplished: 5   accomplished with difficulty: 7   failed: 3   total 
>points: 17   average: 1.13   Based solely on this analysis, JAWS for 
>Windows and Screen   Reader/2 were tied for top.  They were followed by 
>OutSpoken for   Windows, Screen Power for Windows, WinVision, Window Bridge 
>and Window-Eyes.   Let me remind readers that Windows access products are 
>rapidly   developing so that new versions might lead to significantly 
>different results today.  In fact, some developers have already   made 
>enhancements to address problems encountered at this 
>competition.   --Dueling Windows:  An Overviewby 
>Kenneth Frasse(re-printed with permission of Sensory Access 
>Foundationfrom Access Review, Vol. I, No. 1, Spring 1996) 
>Abstract   In March, at the CSUN International Conference on Technology and 
>Persons with Disabilities held in Los Angeles, California, Mark   Nelson of 
>the Foundation for Blind Children hosted a pre-conference   seminar called 
>"Dueling Windows".  This seminar attempted to   contrast and compare 
>graphical user interface (GUI) screen review   software in applications for 
>Windows.  The format of the seminar   was to pose identical tasks to each 
>of the vendors in alternating   order and have the vendors demonstrate the 
>ability of their   products to perform the specified tasks.  Since SAF does 
>not sell,   distribute, or endorse any single GUI screen reader, we 
>attempted   to generate an objective review of the GUI screen readers 
>demonstrated.Editor   Similar to the 1995 Closing the Gap 
>presentation of Dueling   Windows, Mark Nelson of the Arizona-based 
>Foundation for Blind   Children coordinated another Dueling Windows at the 
>March CSUN   conference in Los Angeles.  The Los Angeles seminar differed 
>in   several respects from the first seminar at Closing the Gap, not the 
>least of which was that the seminar was six hours long.  It was   simil

Re: contacting Doug.

[Russ Kiehne via Talk]

   You are correct, the article was posted for historical purposes. 
It's interesting to see how many screen readers we had back then.  Jaws 
wonthe the battle and now is king of the hill.


-Original Message- 
From: Debby Franson via Talk

Sent: Sunday, August 20, 2017 12:50 PM
To: Window-Eyes Discussion List
Cc: Debby Franson
Subject: Re: contacting Doug.

Hi Loy!

No, I agree that the article would not be fair today, but I think this
article was posted for historical purposes, not anything about the current 
day.


Debby

At 10:25 AM 8/19/2017, Loy via Talk wrote
This would not be a air comparison now, Window Eyes progressed much faster 
than JAWS since 1996.   - Original Message -   From: Russ Kiehne 
via Talk   To: Window-Eyes Discussion List   Cc: Russ Kiehne   Sent: 
Saturday, August 19, 2017 9:42 AM   Subject: Re: contacting Doug.   Check 
this out from times past!   Date:Tue, 11 Jun 1996 14:49:26 EDT   From: 
Jamal Mazrui <7.1...@compuserve.com>   Subject: CSUN "Dueling Windows" 
Sensory Access Foundation has published a "Dueling Windows"   report in the 
Spring 1996 issue of Access Review.  It   summarizes a competition among 
Windows screen readers that was   held at the 1996 CSUN conference in 
March.  I am prefacing the   article with some tabulations I did with its 
data.   Since the article does not quantify the performance of each 
screen reader according to its criteria, I did such an analysis   for the 
interest of readers.  I assigned a value of 2 for   accomplishing a task, 1 
for accomplishing it with difficulty, and   0 for failing it.  If anyone 
observes an error in my arithmetic,   please let me know.   Artic's 
WinVision   accomplished: 7   accomplished with difficulty: 2   failed: 6 
total points: 16   average: 1.06   Berkeley's OutSpoken for Windows 
accomplished: 9   accomplished with difficulty: 5   failed: 1   total 
points: 23   average: 1.53   GW Micro's Window-Eyes   accomplished: 5 
accomplished with difficulty: 1   failed: 9   total points: 11   average: 
.73   Henter-Joyce's JAWS for Windows   accomplished: 13   accomplished 
with difficulty: 1   failed: 1   total points: 27   average: 1.8   IBM's 
Screen Reader/2   accomplished: 13   accomplished with difficulty: 1 
failed: 1   total points: 27   average: 1.8   Syntha-Voice's Window Bridge 
accomplished: 5   accomplished with difficulty: 4   failed: 6   total 
points: 14   average: .93   TeleSensory's Screen Power for Windows 
accomplished: 5   accomplished with difficulty: 7   failed: 3   total 
points: 17   average: 1.13   Based solely on this analysis, JAWS for 
Windows and Screen   Reader/2 were tied for top.  They were followed by 
OutSpoken for   Windows, Screen Power for Windows, WinVision, Window Bridge 
and Window-Eyes.   Let me remind readers that Windows access products are 
rapidly   developing so that new versions might lead to significantly 
different results today.  In fact, some developers have already   made 
enhancements to address problems encountered at this 
competition.   --Dueling Windows:  An Overviewby 
Kenneth Frasse(re-printed with permission of Sensory Access 
Foundationfrom Access Review, Vol. I, No. 1, Spring 1996) 
Abstract   In March, at the CSUN International Conference on Technology and 
Persons with Disabilities held in Los Angeles, California, Mark   Nelson of 
the Foundation for Blind Children hosted a pre-conference   seminar called 
"Dueling Windows".  This seminar attempted to   contrast and compare 
graphical user interface (GUI) screen review   software in applications for 
Windows.  The format of the seminar   was to pose identical tasks to each 
of the vendors in alternating   order and have the vendors demonstrate the 
ability of their   products to perform the specified tasks.  Since SAF does 
not sell,   distribute, or endorse any single GUI screen reader, we 
attempted   to generate an objective review of the GUI screen readers 
demonstrated.Editor   Similar to the 1995 Closing the Gap 
presentation of Dueling   Windows, Mark Nelson of the Arizona-based 
Foundation for Blind   Children coordinated another Dueling Windows at the 
March CSUN   conference in Los Angeles.  The Los Angeles seminar differed 
in   several respects from the first seminar at Closing the Gap, not the 
least of which was that the seminar was six hours long.  It was   similar 
to the Closing the Gap seminar in that it was composed of   questions and 
tasks that each of the vendors had to answer or   perform.  Notably, Greg 
Meise of the Kansas-based Missing Link   Technologies, Kerry Malone-Cook of 
the Southern Oregon Goodwill,   and Jay Stiteley of The New Jersey-based 
Seeing Eye, Inc. joined   Mr. Nelson as the three panelists who would 
present the questions   of the day; these panelists also formed the impetus 
for creating   Dueling Windows.  I wish to take a moment to ex

RE: contacting Doug.

[Debby Franson via Talk]

Hi Olusegun!

I wish you much success in your Android migration.

I have never had a custom scrip/app written for me. I'm not planning on 
asking VFO with their exorbitant prices to write any for me.


Has anyone had a custom app written by GW Micro/AI Squared? I'm just 
curious how much that cost you if you did.


Debby

At 01:20 PM 8/19/2017, Olusegun -- Victory Associates LTD, wrote

Debby, it's the death of Window-Eyes that's KICKING ME off the Windows OS
completely.  Though I am still using Windows machines, I'm doing so until
each one dies and I plunk it down the drain of a landfill near me.  As a
wee, small business owner, I can't tell you how much time GW Micro, Inc.
spent with me in helping to ensure that all the apps I deploy for work serve
me well.  Let me approach V F O with scripting issues and I better be ready
to SHELL OUT no less than $200-$250 per hour for scripting.  I know too well
that vocational rehabilitation in my corner won't pay for that!  It will
cost well over $15,000!  And my company will have to keep shortchanging me
on my paycheck as its life will be mortgaged to V F O till FOLD UP do us
part!

My migration is slow, but it will happen; for work-related purposes and
personal stuff as well, it shall be Android every step of the way!  In this
new world, I shan't be at the MERCY of V F O and its cohorts.

Though I'll never get an answer one way or another, I wonder what could have
been different if GW Micro, Inc. issued an IPO and anyone who wanted to
could become a part owner by buying GW Micro, Inc. stocks!  I've never heard
of any adaptive technology equipment manufacturer doing that; yet, in the
mainstream, small companies, like WhatsApp and Skype built themselves into
viable operations before their owners sold them for more money than they
could ever spend!  Would it have been much too much to manage?  I am sure
that an equity firm could have helped to coordinate things such that
everything would run smoothly.  At least, Window-Eyes won't be at the mercy
of venture capitalists that have now killed it!

Sincerely,
Olusegun
Denver, Colorado


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Re: contacting Doug.

[Debby Franson via Talk]

Hi Loy!

No, I agree that the article would not be fair today, but I think this 
article was posted for historical purposes, not anything about the current day.


Debby

At 10:25 AM 8/19/2017, Loy via Talk wrote
This would not be a air comparison now, Window Eyes progressed much faster 
than JAWS since 1996.   - Original Message -   From: Russ Kiehne 
via Talk   To: Window-Eyes Discussion List   Cc: Russ Kiehne   Sent: 
Saturday, August 19, 2017 9:42 AM   Subject: Re: contacting Doug.   Check 
this out from times past!   Date:Tue, 11 Jun 1996 14:49:26 
EDT   From:Jamal Mazrui <7.1...@compuserve.com>   Subject: CSUN 
"Dueling Windows"   Sensory Access Foundation has published a "Dueling 
Windows"   report in the Spring 1996 issue of Access 
Review.  It   summarizes a competition among Windows screen readers that 
was   held at the 1996 CSUN conference in March.  I am prefacing 
the   article with some tabulations I did with its data.   Since the 
article does not quantify the performance of each   screen reader 
according to its criteria, I did such an analysis   for the interest of 
readers.  I assigned a value of 2 for   accomplishing a task, 1 for 
accomplishing it with difficulty, and   0 for failing it.  If anyone 
observes an error in my arithmetic,   please let me know.   Artic's 
WinVision   accomplished: 7   accomplished with difficulty: 2   failed: 
6   total points: 16   average: 1.06   Berkeley's OutSpoken for 
Windows   accomplished: 9   accomplished with difficulty: 5   failed: 
1   total points: 23   average: 1.53   GW Micro's 
Window-Eyes   accomplished: 5   accomplished with difficulty: 1   failed: 
9   total points: 11   average: .73   Henter-Joyce's JAWS for 
Windows   accomplished: 13   accomplished with difficulty: 1   failed: 
1   total points: 27   average: 1.8   IBM's Screen 
Reader/2   accomplished: 13   accomplished with difficulty: 1   failed: 
1   total points: 27   average: 1.8   Syntha-Voice's Window 
Bridge   accomplished: 5   accomplished with difficulty: 4   failed: 
6   total points: 14   average: .93   TeleSensory's Screen Power for 
Windows   accomplished: 5   accomplished with difficulty: 7   failed: 
3   total points: 17   average: 1.13   Based solely on this analysis, JAWS 
for Windows and Screen   Reader/2 were tied for top.  They were followed 
by OutSpoken for   Windows, Screen Power for Windows, WinVision, Window 
Bridge   and Window-Eyes.   Let me remind readers that Windows access 
products are rapidly   developing so that new versions might lead to 
significantly   different results today.  In fact, some developers have 
already   made enhancements to address problems encountered at 
this   competition.   --Dueling Windows:  An 
Overviewby Kenneth Frasse(re-printed with permission of 
Sensory Access Foundationfrom Access Review, Vol. I, No. 1, Spring 
1996)Abstract   In March, at the CSUN International Conference on 
Technology and   Persons with Disabilities held in Los Angeles, 
California, Mark   Nelson of the Foundation for Blind Children hosted a 
pre-conference   seminar called "Dueling Windows".  This seminar attempted 
to   contrast and compare graphical user interface (GUI) screen 
review   software in applications for Windows.  The format of the 
seminar   was to pose identical tasks to each of the vendors in 
alternating   order and have the vendors demonstrate the ability of 
their   products to perform the specified tasks.  Since SAF does not 
sell,   distribute, or endorse any single GUI screen reader, we 
attempted   to generate an objective review of the GUI screen 
readers   demonstrated.Editor   Similar to the 1995 Closing the 
Gap presentation of Dueling   Windows, Mark Nelson of the Arizona-based 
Foundation for Blind   Children coordinated another Dueling Windows at the 
March CSUN   conference in Los Angeles.  The Los Angeles seminar differed 
in   several respects from the first seminar at Closing the Gap, not 
the   least of which was that the seminar was six hours long.  It 
was   similar to the Closing the Gap seminar in that it was composed 
of   questions and tasks that each of the vendors had to answer 
or   perform.  Notably, Greg Meise of the Kansas-based Missing 
Link   Technologies, Kerry Malone-Cook of the Southern Oregon 
Goodwill,   and Jay Stiteley of The New Jersey-based Seeing Eye, Inc. 
joined   Mr. Nelson as the three panelists who would present the 
questions   of the day; these panelists also formed the impetus for 
creating   Dueling Windows.  I wish to take a moment to explain 
the   presentation and approach of this article so that the reader may 
be   as clear on the issues presented as possible.  I will 
present   Dueling Windows in five sections:   1)   Who was there:  Which 
GUI software were represented at the   seminar and what are some of the 
fundamental equipment differences   between them that

Re: contacting Doug.

[Russ Kiehne via Talk]

Yes, window eyes has come a long way sense then.  Notice how many screen 
readers are no longer around sense then?


-Original Message- 
From: Loy via Talk

Sent: Saturday, August 19, 2017 8:25 AM
To: Window-Eyes Discussion List
Cc: Loy
Subject: Re: contacting Doug.

This would not be a air comparison now, Window Eyes progressed much faster 
than JAWS since 1996.
 - Original Message - 
 From: Russ Kiehne via Talk

 To: Window-Eyes Discussion List
 Cc: Russ Kiehne
 Sent: Saturday, August 19, 2017 9:42 AM
 Subject: Re: contacting Doug.


 Check this out from times past!

 Date:Tue, 11 Jun 1996 14:49:26 EDT
 From:Jamal Mazrui <7.1...@compuserve.com>
 Subject: CSUN "Dueling Windows"

 Sensory Access Foundation has published a "Dueling Windows"
 report in the Spring 1996 issue of Access Review.  It
 summarizes a competition among Windows screen readers that was
 held at the 1996 CSUN conference in March.  I am prefacing the
 article with some tabulations I did with its data.

 Since the article does not quantify the performance of each
 screen reader according to its criteria, I did such an analysis
 for the interest of readers.  I assigned a value of 2 for
 accomplishing a task, 1 for accomplishing it with difficulty, and
 0 for failing it.  If anyone observes an error in my arithmetic,
 please let me know.

 Artic's WinVision
 accomplished: 7
 accomplished with difficulty: 2
 failed: 6
 total points: 16
 average: 1.06

 Berkeley's OutSpoken for Windows
 accomplished: 9
 accomplished with difficulty: 5
 failed: 1
 total points: 23
 average: 1.53

 GW Micro's Window-Eyes
 accomplished: 5
 accomplished with difficulty: 1
 failed: 9
 total points: 11
 average: .73

 Henter-Joyce's JAWS for Windows
 accomplished: 13
 accomplished with difficulty: 1
 failed: 1
 total points: 27
 average: 1.8

 IBM's Screen Reader/2
 accomplished: 13
 accomplished with difficulty: 1
 failed: 1
 total points: 27
 average: 1.8

 Syntha-Voice's Window Bridge
 accomplished: 5
 accomplished with difficulty: 4
 failed: 6
 total points: 14
 average: .93

 TeleSensory's Screen Power for Windows
 accomplished: 5
 accomplished with difficulty: 7
 failed: 3
 total points: 17
 average: 1.13


 Based solely on this analysis, JAWS for Windows and Screen
 Reader/2 were tied for top.  They were followed by OutSpoken for
 Windows, Screen Power for Windows, WinVision, Window Bridge
 and Window-Eyes.


 Let me remind readers that Windows access products are rapidly
 developing so that new versions might lead to significantly
 different results today.  In fact, some developers have already
 made enhancements to address problems encountered at this
 competition.

 --

  Dueling Windows:  An Overview
  by Kenneth Frasse
  (re-printed with permission of Sensory Access Foundation
  from Access Review, Vol. I, No. 1, Spring 1996)


  Abstract

 In March, at the CSUN International Conference on Technology and
 Persons with Disabilities held in Los Angeles, California, Mark
 Nelson of the Foundation for Blind Children hosted a pre-conference
 seminar called "Dueling Windows".  This seminar attempted to
 contrast and compare graphical user interface (GUI) screen review
 software in applications for Windows.  The format of the seminar
 was to pose identical tasks to each of the vendors in alternating
 order and have the vendors demonstrate the ability of their
 products to perform the specified tasks.  Since SAF does not sell,
 distribute, or endorse any single GUI screen reader, we attempted
 to generate an objective review of the GUI screen readers
 demonstrated.

  Editor


 Similar to the 1995 Closing the Gap presentation of Dueling
 Windows, Mark Nelson of the Arizona-based Foundation for Blind
 Children coordinated another Dueling Windows at the March CSUN
 conference in Los Angeles.  The Los Angeles seminar differed in
 several respects from the first seminar at Closing the Gap, not the
 least of which was that the seminar was six hours long.  It was
 similar to the Closing the Gap seminar in that it was composed of
 questions and tasks that each of the vendors had to answer or
 perform.  Notably, Greg Meise of the Kansas-based Missing Link
 Technologies, Kerry Malone-Cook of the Southern Oregon Goodwill,
 and Jay Stiteley of The New Jersey-based Seeing Eye, Inc. joined
 Mr. Nelson as the three panelists who would present the questions
 of the day; these panelists also formed the impetus for creating
 Dueling Windows.  I wish to take a moment to explain the
 presentation and approach of this article so that the reader may be
 as clear on the issues presented as possible.  I will present
 Dueling Windows in five sections:

 1)   Who was there:  Which GUI software were represented at the
 seminar and what are some of the fundamental equipment differences
 between them that the seminar results might not make obvious for
 the reader;
 2)   Technical Se

RE: contacting Doug.

[Olusegun -- Victory Associates LTD, Inc. via Talk]

Debby, it's the death of Window-Eyes that's KICKING ME off the Windows OS
completely.  Though I am still using Windows machines, I'm doing so until
each one dies and I plunk it down the drain of a landfill near me.  As a
wee, small business owner, I can't tell you how much time GW Micro, Inc.
spent with me in helping to ensure that all the apps I deploy for work serve
me well.  Let me approach V F O with scripting issues and I better be ready
to SHELL OUT no less than $200-$250 per hour for scripting.  I know too well
that vocational rehabilitation in my corner won't pay for that!  It will
cost well over $15,000!  And my company will have to keep shortchanging me
on my paycheck as its life will be mortgaged to V F O till FOLD UP do us
part!

My migration is slow, but it will happen; for work-related purposes and
personal stuff as well, it shall be Android every step of the way!  In this
new world, I shan't be at the MERCY of V F O and its cohorts.  

Though I'll never get an answer one way or another, I wonder what could have
been different if GW Micro, Inc. issued an IPO and anyone who wanted to
could become a part owner by buying GW Micro, Inc. stocks!  I've never heard
of any adaptive technology equipment manufacturer doing that; yet, in the
mainstream, small companies, like WhatsApp and Skype built themselves into
viable operations before their owners sold them for more money than they
could ever spend!  Would it have been much too much to manage?  I am sure
that an equity firm could have helped to coordinate things such that
everything would run smoothly.  At least, Window-Eyes won't be at the mercy
of venture capitalists that have now killed it!  

Sincerely,
Olusegun
Denver, Colorado   


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Re: contacting Doug.

[Jim via Talk]

Pam, I am not currently a  member, but I have a friend who is and he 
told me just the other day that as far as he knows the NFB has never 
endorced any product over an other and like you has been a member for 
quite a few years.  Just my observations. Catch Ya Later! de


.


On 19-Aug-17 06:35, Pamela Dominguez via Talk wrote:
People keep saying that they did.  I have been in the NFB since 1975, 
and I have never heard anything like this.  Pam.


-Original Message- From: Brenda via Talk
Sent: Friday, August 18, 2017 7:41 PM
To: Dennis Long via Talk
Cc: Brenda
Subject: Re: contacting Doug.

My thoughts...

I thought the NFB was supposed to help blind people - surprised they
would sell out to a single screen reader, especially an inferior one.

aaron smithwas at VFO as Enterprise Compliance specialist.  I don't
think VFO gave us Jaws because they wanted to, they may have had to
legally for some reason.  wonder if aaron is still there or if he left
with Doug.  I think he lived in Ft. Wayne so I'm thinking he worked
remotely until he was no longer needed.

I suspect there are some folks that are still in contact with doug - if
so, please convey my, and probably all listers, appreciation to him.  It
would have been nice if Doug had said goodbye on this list, but I
suspect that would have stirred things up again.

I think Jaws has a better chance of survival because it has better
financial backing and a more diversified product line.  I really feel
Hims did GW in after using GW to enter the U.S. market then going off on
their own. I took a training class at GW when GW was working with Hims
to develop and market the booksense and the folks at GW were so
pleased/excited about this product.

All that being said, it never hurts to have multiple tools in the
toolbox so I will learn jaws eventually. I just can't think in Jaws very
well yet.

I think I covered everything I wanted in response to the emails in this
thread.
Brenda



On 8/17/2017 2:45 PM, Dennis Long via Talk wrote:

Hear is why I say Jaws is going nowhere. 1 state agencies and government
contracts.  2 it's better than any other screen reader currently in
development.  3 NFB.

-Original Message-
From: Talk [mailto:talk-boun...@lists.window-eyes.com] On Behalf Of
ratshtron via Talk
Sent: Thursday, August 17, 2017 10:50 AM
To: ukekearu...@valtdnet.com; Window-Eyes Discussion List
Cc: ratshtron
Subject: RE: contacting Doug.

hmmm, if you can't beat the competition, kill it! I believe I'm going to
switch to apple, BIG GRIN!


Legend has it that on Wednesday 8/16/2017 08:02 PM, Olusegun --
Victory Associates LTD, said:

Well, Michael, I once opined that the war Freedom Scientific could 
not win

in the courts, was well fought and won outside; with its cohorts and

coterie

of friends, it succeeded in drowning the boat!

The merger with AI Square came to me as a surprise; I didn't want to 
see it

happen, but what voice do I have?

I long for the day when all these adaptive equipment
developers/manufacturers can TRADE THEIR STOCKS publicly; may be, 
just may
be, they'll have better stability!  Now, we keep our eyes on the 
sparrow,

Jaws may be taking its last breath as the venture capitalists will soon
squash its fins!  Then it'll be Apple and Google to fill the void at 
least

here in the United States!

Sincerely,
Olusegun
Denver, Colorado


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Re: contacting Doug.

[Loy via Talk]

This would not be a air comparison now, Window Eyes progressed much faster than 
JAWS since 1996. 
  - Original Message - 
  From: Russ Kiehne via Talk 
  To: Window-Eyes Discussion List 
  Cc: Russ Kiehne 
  Sent: Saturday, August 19, 2017 9:42 AM
  Subject: Re: contacting Doug.


  Check this out from times past!

  Date:Tue, 11 Jun 1996 14:49:26 EDT
  From:Jamal Mazrui <7.1...@compuserve.com>
  Subject: CSUN "Dueling Windows"

  Sensory Access Foundation has published a "Dueling Windows"
  report in the Spring 1996 issue of Access Review.  It
  summarizes a competition among Windows screen readers that was
  held at the 1996 CSUN conference in March.  I am prefacing the
  article with some tabulations I did with its data.

  Since the article does not quantify the performance of each
  screen reader according to its criteria, I did such an analysis
  for the interest of readers.  I assigned a value of 2 for
  accomplishing a task, 1 for accomplishing it with difficulty, and
  0 for failing it.  If anyone observes an error in my arithmetic,
  please let me know.

  Artic's WinVision
  accomplished: 7
  accomplished with difficulty: 2
  failed: 6
  total points: 16
  average: 1.06

  Berkeley's OutSpoken for Windows
  accomplished: 9
  accomplished with difficulty: 5
  failed: 1
  total points: 23
  average: 1.53

  GW Micro's Window-Eyes
  accomplished: 5
  accomplished with difficulty: 1
  failed: 9
  total points: 11
  average: .73

  Henter-Joyce's JAWS for Windows
  accomplished: 13
  accomplished with difficulty: 1
  failed: 1
  total points: 27
  average: 1.8

  IBM's Screen Reader/2
  accomplished: 13
  accomplished with difficulty: 1
  failed: 1
  total points: 27
  average: 1.8

  Syntha-Voice's Window Bridge
  accomplished: 5
  accomplished with difficulty: 4
  failed: 6
  total points: 14
  average: .93

  TeleSensory's Screen Power for Windows
  accomplished: 5
  accomplished with difficulty: 7
  failed: 3
  total points: 17
  average: 1.13


  Based solely on this analysis, JAWS for Windows and Screen
  Reader/2 were tied for top.  They were followed by OutSpoken for
  Windows, Screen Power for Windows, WinVision, Window Bridge
  and Window-Eyes.


  Let me remind readers that Windows access products are rapidly
  developing so that new versions might lead to significantly
  different results today.  In fact, some developers have already
  made enhancements to address problems encountered at this
  competition.

  --

   Dueling Windows:  An Overview
   by Kenneth Frasse
   (re-printed with permission of Sensory Access Foundation
   from Access Review, Vol. I, No. 1, Spring 1996)


   Abstract

  In March, at the CSUN International Conference on Technology and
  Persons with Disabilities held in Los Angeles, California, Mark
  Nelson of the Foundation for Blind Children hosted a pre-conference
  seminar called "Dueling Windows".  This seminar attempted to
  contrast and compare graphical user interface (GUI) screen review
  software in applications for Windows.  The format of the seminar
  was to pose identical tasks to each of the vendors in alternating
  order and have the vendors demonstrate the ability of their
  products to perform the specified tasks.  Since SAF does not sell,
  distribute, or endorse any single GUI screen reader, we attempted
  to generate an objective review of the GUI screen readers
  demonstrated.

   Editor


  Similar to the 1995 Closing the Gap presentation of Dueling
  Windows, Mark Nelson of the Arizona-based Foundation for Blind
  Children coordinated another Dueling Windows at the March CSUN
  conference in Los Angeles.  The Los Angeles seminar differed in
  several respects from the first seminar at Closing the Gap, not the
  least of which was that the seminar was six hours long.  It was
  similar to the Closing the Gap seminar in that it was composed of
  questions and tasks that each of the vendors had to answer or
  perform.  Notably, Greg Meise of the Kansas-based Missing Link
  Technologies, Kerry Malone-Cook of the Southern Oregon Goodwill,
  and Jay Stiteley of The New Jersey-based Seeing Eye, Inc. joined
  Mr. Nelson as the three panelists who would present the questions
  of the day; these panelists also formed the impetus for creating
  Dueling Windows.  I wish to take a moment to explain the
  presentation and approach of this article so that the reader may be
  as clear on the issues presented as possible.  I will present
  Dueling Windows in five sections:

  1)   Who was there:  Which GUI software were represented at the
  seminar and what are some of the fundamental equipment differences
  between them that the seminar results might not make obvious for
  the reader;
  2)   Technical Set-up:  What was the technical set-up for the
  seminar;
  3)   Environment:  What are the advantages and disadvantages of the
  Dueling Windows environment;
  4)   Result

Re: contacting Doug.

[Russ Kiehne via Talk]

defining.

Window-Eyes:  failed task
Comments:  Could not establish single-column window to read.

JFW:  failed task
Comments:  Could not establish single-column window to read.

SR/2:  failed task
Comments:  Could not establish single-column window to read.

Window Bridge:  failed task
Comments:  Could not establish single-column window to read.

SPW:  achieved task with difficulty
Comments:  Could not establish single-column with speech, but could
use braille
display to differentiate between columns.

16.  Start MS-Word.  From the file menu open a file called dw.doc
from the \dwfiles directory.  From the tool menu, select
spellcheck.  Using the tab key, now demonstrate your program's
ability to read the items in this dialog box.

WinVision:  achieved task with difficulty
Comments:  Had to tab to short keys to read them; did not spell
misspelled or optional
words.

outSPOKEN:  achieved task with difficulty
Comments:  Had to tab to short keys to read them; did not spell
misspelled or optional
words.

Window-Eyes:  achieved task with difficulty
Comments:  Had to tab to short keys to read them; did not spell
misspelled or optional
words.

JFW:  achieved task
Comments:  none

SR/2:  achieved task
Comments:  none

Window Bridge:  achieved task with difficulty
Comments:  Had to tab to short keys to read them; did not spell
misspelled or optional
words.

SPW:  achieved task with difficulty
Comments:  Had to tab to short keys to read them; did not spell
misspelled or optional
words.

Summary and Commentary
We gleaned a few conclusions from Dueling Windows.  It showed that
we have come a long way in GUI screen reader development since only
a few, short years ago when access to GUI appeared a dismal
prospect.  Dueling Windows further showed, however, that we have a
long way to go in GUI screen reader development.  Few tasks, by any
vendor, could be easily performed with a single keystroke or short
series of keystrokes; though certain individual tasks could be
performed relatively easily, access to an entire process or series
of tasks seemed burdensome and never completely straight-forward.
The seminar brought to light some important points to consider
regarding this.

DOS was not accessible in its early state, and is often still
inaccessible.  Access to Windows, however, is occurring at an
earlier stage in Windows development than did access in DOS's
development.  Also, if certain programming conventions are upheld
in Windows, Windows may become much more predictable and workable
than DOS did; remember that GUI access is in its fledgling state
and will become much more sophisticated.  One key issue for access
to Windows is the need, or lack thereof, to build one's own speech
configurations or profiles.  If an access program works well with
a strict, conventional set-up of an application program, but fails
to easily be configured for a slight variation of the original
application program, this is obviously not desirable.  Also, key
issues for GUI screen reader users are the ability to re-read text
and fields that have been spoken once as a window opens, and the
ability to spell words in any area of the screen where they are
only spoken in context.

Since Windows is somewhat predictable and generally constant in its
presentation, and, since certain Windows application programs have
become more conventional than others, it is not unreasonable to
assume that the differences between access programs will become
more philosophy-based, rather than task-based.  The conventions of
Windows, or domination of Microsoft, essentially requires all GUI
screen readers to eventually have full and complete access to these
programs.  The distinctions are likely to appear in the interface
where more or less transparency is desired, etc.

Lastly, Dueling Windows may be providing a marketing aspect that
could benefit the users.  Though certainly not all-encompassing, it
injects a competitiveness into the screen reader market that might
not otherwise be there.  Much product development for the blind has
suffered as a result of a lack of competition, so the user may
benefit from this current surge in GUI access competitiveness.  The
only danger with this added competitiveness is if the small pool of
developers and vendors in this market lose respect for another's
product, or cease to work with other developers.  Judging from the
March CSUN event, this is certainly not the case yet, and SAF looks
forward to the next Dueling Windows.

Post Scriptum:
SAF welcomes any or all of the GUI screen reader vendors to respond
to any misrepresentations or errors this article may infer
regarding their product.

-Original Message- 
From: Ian Westerland via Talk

Sent: Friday, August 18, 2017 3:04 PM
To: Sky Mundell via Talk
Cc: Ian Westerland
Subject: Re: contacting Doug.


Hello everyone.  I am still using Window-Eyes and the various Android
apps in my smart phone but I think the 4 B's might apply here to FS,
Jaws and screen reading access gen

Re: contacting Doug.

[Loy via Talk]

GWMicro willing merged with AISquared and it was a good fit according to Doug. 
But I feel AISquared  then sold out WE when they sold out to VFO.
  - Original Message - 
  From: Nick Sarames via Talk 
  To: Window-Eyes Discussion List 
  Cc: Nick Sarames 
  Sent: Saturday, August 19, 2017 3:18 AM
  Subject: Re: contacting Doug.


  The smaller one still has to agree to it.

  On 8/19/2017 1:56 AM, michaels mail via Talk wrote:
  > Ian very well said.
  > The thing in life is the bigger companys swallow up the smaller ones.
  > cheers Michael.
  > 
  > -Original Message- From: Ian Westerland via Talk
  > Sent: Saturday, August 19, 2017 8:04 AM
  > To: Sky Mundell via Talk
  > Cc: Ian Westerland
  > Subject: Re: contacting Doug.
  > 
  > 
  > Hello everyone. I am still using Window-Eyes and the various Android
  > apps in my smart phone but I think the 4 B's might apply here to FS,
  > Jaws and screen reading access generally.
  > 
  > What are the 4 B's?
  > 
  > Big, Bigger, Biggest, Bust.
  > In the longr term, some good will come of it all depending on who thinks
  > about what is behind the need for top quality Screen reading access.
  > There are some good things around.
  > Just some thoughts I've had as I have observed and participated in some
  > of this Accessibility change and development.
  > 
  > Ian Westerland
  > 
  > 
  > 
  > 
  > 
  > 
  > On 8/19/2017 7:24 AM, Sky Mundell via Talk wrote:
  >> FS is getting desperate to hang onto their market at any cost. With 
  >> JAWS having a monopoly in the paid market now, the price of JAWS might 
  >> go up.
  >>
  >> -Original Message-
  >> From: Talk [mailto:talk-boun...@lists.window-eyes.com] On Behalf Of 
  >> Reeva Webb via Talk
  >> Sent: Thursday, August 17, 2017 11:42 AM
  >> To: Window-Eyes Discussion List
  >> Cc: Reeva Webb
  >> Subject: RE: contacting Doug.
  >>
  >> You can tell fs starting to get desperate. Fs 10 or 15 years ago 
  >> wouldn't have given you discounts on anything. For most the out of the 
  >> box accessibility, android, apple etc. will work for what they need to 
  >> do. I'm curious though, is anyone from gw or pre merger ai2 still 
  >> around.? Everyone i can think of seems to be gone.
  >>
  >> "the world has been against you from day one, tomorrow's never 
  >> promised night has just begun, so sing with me we're all fucked" Walls 
  >> Of Jericho
  >>
  >> Reeva
  >>
  >> On Aug 17, 2017 1:00 PM, "Joseph Norton via Talk" < 
  >> talk@lists.window-eyes.com> wrote:
  >>
  >>> Ah, I think I see where you’re going with this.
  >>>
  >>> Are you saying things may be getting to a point where the cost of
  >>> maintaining JAWS is greater than anyone wants to pay in terms of
  >>> keeping the company going?
  >>>
  >>> I know it’s not because of Narrator being a superior product on the
  >>> Windows side. It is improving, but, not enough for many of us to get
  >>> rid of JAWS.
  >>>
  >>>
  >>>
  >>> Sent from Mail for Windows 10
  >>>
  >>> From: Olusegun -- Victory Associates LTD, Inc. via Talk
  >>> Sent: Wednesday, August 16, 2017 9:02 PM
  >>> To: 'Window-Eyes Discussion List'; 'Dennis Long'
  >>> Subject: RE: contacting Doug.
  >>>
  >>> Well, Michael, I once opined that the war Freedom Scientific could not
  >>> win in the courts, was well fought and won outside; with its cohorts
  >>> and coterie of friends, it succeeded in drowning the boat!
  >>>
  >>> The merger with AI Square came to me as a surprise; I didn't want to
  >>> see it happen, but what voice do I have?
  >>>
  >>> I long for the day when all these adaptive equipment
  >>> developers/manufacturers can TRADE THEIR STOCKS publicly; may be, just
  >>> may be, they'll have better stability! Now, we keep our eyes on the
  >>> sparrow, Jaws may be taking its last breath as the venture capitalists
  >>> will soon squash its fins! Then it'll be Apple and Google to fill the
  >>> void at least here in the United States!
  >>>
  >>> Sincerely,
  >>> Olusegun
  >>> Denver, Colorado
  >>>
  >>>
  >>> ---
  >>> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
  >>> https://www.avast.com/antivirus
  >>>
  >>> ___
  >>> Any views or opinions presented in this email are solely those of the
  >

Re: contacting Doug.

[michael fridey via Talk]

It must be a IE issue for both screen readers lose focus.

cheers Michael.


On 19/08/2017 9:26 PM, Pamela Dominguez via Talk wrote:
I think I didn't really have trouble with window eyes losing focus 
until a couple of years ago.  Pam.


-Original Message- From: michaels mail via Talk
Sent: Saturday, August 19, 2017 1:51 AM
To: Window-Eyes Discussion List
Cc: michaels mail
Subject: Re: contacting Doug.

Hi Debby i first started with WE version 4.5  SP1.
It came in the old large cardboard pacage with the  cassettes WE has 
been a

good screen reader.
I use to get cranky when WE would lose focus on IE but Jaws does the same
thing.
Cheers Michael.

-Original Message- From: Debby Franson via Talk
Sent: Saturday, August 19, 2017 1:00 PM
To: Window-Eyes Discussion List
Cc: Debby Franson
Subject: Re: contacting Doug.

Hi Michael!

I was trying to remember exactly when Window-Eyes was first released. I
know it was in 1995. Here is a page I enjoyed reading that answered that
question for me.

GW Micro - Window-Eyes - Version History

http://www.gwmicro.com/Window-Eyes/Version_History/

Debby

At 08:01 PM 8/17/2017, michaeel's mail via Talk wrote
Well i am still hear i been useing WE since 2004. And i took the 
offer to Jaws as well. Cheers michael. -Original Message- 
From: Reeva Webb via Talk Sent: Friday, August 18, 2017 4:41 AM To: 
Window-Eyes Discussion List Cc: Reeva Webb Subject: RE: contacting 
Doug. You can tell fs starting to get desperate. Fs 10 or 15 years 
ago wouldn't have given you discounts on anything. For most the out 
of the box accessibility, android, apple etc. will work for what they 
need to do. I'm curious though, is anyone from gw or pre merger ai2 
still around.? Everyone i can think of seems to be gone. "the world 
has been against you from day one, tomorrow's never promised night 
has just begun, so sing with me we're all fucked" Walls Of Jericho 
Reeva On Aug 17, 2017 1:00 PM, "Joseph Norton via Talk" < 
talk@lists.window-eyes.com> wrote: > Ah, I think I see where you’re 
going with this. > > Are you saying things may be getting to a point 
where the cost of > maintaining JAWS is greater than anyone wants to 
pay in terms of keeping > the company going? > > I know it’s not 
because of Narrator being a superior product on the > Windows side.  
It is improving, but, not enough for many of us to get rid > of JAWS. 
> > > > Sent from Mail for Windows 10 > > From: Olusegun -- Victory 
Associates LTD, Inc. via Talk > Sent: Wednesday, August 16, 2017 9:02 
PM > To: 'Window-Eyes Discussion List'; 'Dennis Long' > Subject: RE: 
contacting Doug. > > Well, Michael, I once opined that the war 
Freedom Scientific could not win > in the courts, was well fought and 
won outside; with its cohorts and > coterie > of friends, it 
succeeded in drowning the boat! > > The merger with AI Square came to 
me as a surprise; I didn't want to see > it > happen, but what voice 
do I have? > > I long for the day when all these adaptive equipment > 
developers/manufacturers can TRADE THEIR STOCKS publicly; may be, 
just may
> be, they'll have better stability!  Now, we keep our eyes on the > 
sparrow, Jaws may be taking its last breath as the venture 
capitalists > will soon >
squash its fins!  Then it'll be Apple and Google to fill the void at 
least
> here in the United States! > > Sincerely, > Olusegun > Denver, 
Colorado >  >

> > --- > This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus
software. > https://www.avast.com/antivirus > > 
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opinions presented in this email are solely those of the > author and 
do not necessarily represent those of Ai Squared. > > For membership 
options, visit http://lists.window-eyes.com/ > 
options.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com/joseph.norton%40gmail.com. > For 
subscription options, visit http://lists.window-eyes.com/ > 
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necessarily represent those of Ai Squared. For membership

Re: contacting Doug.

[Pamela Dominguez via Talk]

I think I didn't really have trouble with window eyes losing focus until a 
couple of years ago.  Pam.


-Original Message- 
From: michaels mail via Talk

Sent: Saturday, August 19, 2017 1:51 AM
To: Window-Eyes Discussion List
Cc: michaels mail
Subject: Re: contacting Doug.

Hi Debby i first started with WE version 4.5  SP1.
It came in the old large cardboard pacage with the  cassettes WE has been a
good screen reader.
I use to get cranky when WE would lose focus on IE but Jaws does the same
thing.
Cheers Michael.

-Original Message- 
From: Debby Franson via Talk

Sent: Saturday, August 19, 2017 1:00 PM
To: Window-Eyes Discussion List
Cc: Debby Franson
Subject: Re: contacting Doug.

Hi Michael!

I was trying to remember exactly when Window-Eyes was first released. I
know it was in 1995. Here is a page I enjoyed reading that answered that
question for me.

GW Micro - Window-Eyes - Version History

http://www.gwmicro.com/Window-Eyes/Version_History/

Debby

At 08:01 PM 8/17/2017, michaeel's mail via Talk wrote
Well i am still hear i been useing WE since 2004. And i took the offer to 
Jaws as well. Cheers michael. -Original Message- From: Reeva Webb 
via Talk Sent: Friday, August 18, 2017 4:41 AM To: Window-Eyes Discussion 
List Cc: Reeva Webb Subject: RE: contacting Doug. You can tell fs starting 
to get desperate. Fs 10 or 15 years ago wouldn't have given you discounts 
on anything. For most the out of the box accessibility, android, apple etc. 
will work for what they need to do. I'm curious though, is anyone from gw 
or pre merger ai2 still around.? Everyone i can think of seems to be gone. 
"the world has been against you from day one, tomorrow's never promised 
night has just begun, so sing with me we're all fucked" Walls Of Jericho 
Reeva On Aug 17, 2017 1:00 PM, "Joseph Norton via Talk" < 
talk@lists.window-eyes.com> wrote: > Ah, I think I see where you’re going 
with this. > > Are you saying things may be getting to a point where the 
cost of > maintaining JAWS is greater than anyone wants to pay in terms of 
keeping > the company going? > > I know it’s not because of Narrator 
being a superior product on the > Windows side.  It is improving, but, not 
enough for many of us to get rid > of JAWS. > > > > Sent from Mail for 
Windows 10 > > From: Olusegun -- Victory Associates LTD, Inc. via Talk > 
Sent: Wednesday, August 16, 2017 9:02 PM > To: 'Window-Eyes Discussion 
List'; 'Dennis Long' > Subject: RE: contacting Doug. > > Well, Michael, I 
once opined that the war Freedom Scientific could not win > in the courts, 
was well fought and won outside; with its cohorts and > coterie > of 
friends, it succeeded in drowning the boat! > > The merger with AI Square 
came to me as a surprise; I didn't want to see > it > happen, but what 
voice do I have? > > I long for the day when all these adaptive equipment > 
developers/manufacturers can TRADE THEIR STOCKS publicly; may be, just may
> be, they'll have better stability!  Now, we keep our eyes on the 
> sparrow, Jaws may be taking its last breath as the venture capitalists 
> will soon >

squash its fins!  Then it'll be Apple and Google to fill the void at least
> here in the United States! > > Sincerely, > Olusegun > Denver, Colorado 
>  >

> > --- > This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus
software. > https://www.avast.com/antivirus > > 
___ > Any views or opinions 
presented in this email are solely those of the > author and do not 
necessarily represent those of Ai Squared. > > For membership options, 
visit http://lists.window-eyes.com/ > 
options.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com/joseph.norton%40gmail.com. > For 
subscription options, visit http://lists.window-eyes.com/ > 
listinfo.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com > List archives can be found at 
http://lists.window-eyes.com/ > private.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com > > 
___ > Any views or opinions 
presented in this email are solely those of the > author and do not 
necessarily represent those of Ai Squared. > > For membership options, 
visit http://lists.window-eyes.com/ > 
options.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com/jadedangelpromises%40gmail.com. > For 
subscription options, visit http://lists.window-eyes.com/ > 
listinfo.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com > List archives can be found at 
http://lists.window-eyes.com/ > private.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com 
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http://lists.window-eyes.com/options.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com/michaelandjeanie%40aapt.net.au. 
For subscription options, visit 

Re: contacting Doug.

[Pamela Dominguez via Talk]

People keep saying that they did.  I have been in the NFB since 1975, and I 
have never heard anything like this.  Pam.


-Original Message- 
From: Brenda via Talk

Sent: Friday, August 18, 2017 7:41 PM
To: Dennis Long via Talk
Cc: Brenda
Subject: Re: contacting Doug.

My thoughts...

I thought the NFB was supposed to help blind people - surprised they
would sell out to a single screen reader, especially an inferior one.

aaron smithwas at VFO as Enterprise Compliance specialist.  I don't
think VFO gave us Jaws because they wanted to, they may have had to
legally for some reason.  wonder if aaron is still there or if he left
with Doug.  I think he lived in Ft. Wayne so I'm thinking he worked
remotely until he was no longer needed.

I suspect there are some folks that are still in contact with doug - if
so, please convey my, and probably all listers, appreciation to him.  It
would have been nice if Doug had said goodbye on this list, but I
suspect that would have stirred things up again.

I think Jaws has a better chance of survival because it has better
financial backing and a more diversified product line.  I really feel
Hims did GW in after using GW to enter the U.S. market then going off on
their own. I took a training class at GW when GW was working with Hims
to develop and market the booksense and the folks at GW were so
pleased/excited about this product.

All that being said, it never hurts to have multiple tools in the
toolbox so I will learn jaws eventually. I just can't think in Jaws very
well yet.

I think I covered everything I wanted in response to the emails in this
thread.
Brenda



On 8/17/2017 2:45 PM, Dennis Long via Talk wrote:

Hear is why I say Jaws is going nowhere.  1 state agencies and government
contracts.  2 it's better than any other screen reader currently in
development.  3 NFB.

-Original Message-
From: Talk [mailto:talk-boun...@lists.window-eyes.com] On Behalf Of
ratshtron via Talk
Sent: Thursday, August 17, 2017 10:50 AM
To: ukekearu...@valtdnet.com; Window-Eyes Discussion List
Cc: ratshtron
Subject: RE: contacting Doug.

hmmm, if you can't beat the competition, kill it! I believe I'm going to
switch to apple, BIG GRIN!


Legend has it that on Wednesday 8/16/2017 08:02 PM, Olusegun --
Victory Associates LTD, said:

Well, Michael, I once opined that the war Freedom Scientific could not 
win

in the courts, was well fought and won outside; with its cohorts and

coterie

of friends, it succeeded in drowning the boat!

The merger with AI Square came to me as a surprise; I didn't want to see 
it

happen, but what voice do I have?

I long for the day when all these adaptive equipment
developers/manufacturers can TRADE THEIR STOCKS publicly; may be, just 
may

be, they'll have better stability!  Now, we keep our eyes on the sparrow,
Jaws may be taking its last breath as the venture capitalists will soon
squash its fins!  Then it'll be Apple and Google to fill the void at 
least

here in the United States!

Sincerely,
Olusegun
Denver, Colorado


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Re: contacting Doug.

[Nick Sarames via Talk]

The smaller one still has to agree to it.

On 8/19/2017 1:56 AM, michaels mail via Talk wrote:
> Ian very well said.
> The thing in life is the bigger  companys swallow up the smaller ones.
> cheers Michael.
> 
> -Original Message- From: Ian Westerland via Talk
> Sent: Saturday, August 19, 2017 8:04 AM
> To: Sky Mundell via Talk
> Cc: Ian Westerland
> Subject: Re: contacting Doug.
> 
> 
> Hello everyone.  I am still using Window-Eyes and the various Android
> apps in my smart phone but I think the 4 B's might apply here to FS,
> Jaws and screen reading access generally.
> 
> What are the 4 B's?
> 
> Big, Bigger, Biggest, Bust.
> In the longr term, some good will come of it all depending on who thinks
> about what is behind the need for top quality Screen reading access.
> There are some good things around.
> Just some thoughts I've had as I have observed and participated in some
> of this Accessibility change and development.
> 
> Ian Westerland
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On 8/19/2017 7:24 AM, Sky Mundell via Talk wrote:
>> FS is getting desperate to hang onto their market at any cost. With 
>> JAWS having a monopoly in the paid market now, the price of JAWS might 
>> go up.
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: Talk [mailto:talk-boun...@lists.window-eyes.com] On Behalf Of 
>> Reeva Webb via Talk
>> Sent: Thursday, August 17, 2017 11:42 AM
>> To: Window-Eyes Discussion List
>> Cc: Reeva Webb
>> Subject: RE: contacting Doug.
>>
>> You can tell fs starting to get desperate. Fs 10 or 15 years ago 
>> wouldn't have given you discounts on anything. For most the out of the 
>> box accessibility, android, apple etc. will work for what they need to 
>> do. I'm curious though, is anyone from gw or pre merger ai2 still 
>> around.? Everyone i can think of seems to be gone.
>>
>> "the world has been against you from day one, tomorrow's never 
>> promised night has just begun, so sing with me we're all fucked" Walls 
>> Of Jericho
>>
>> Reeva
>>
>> On Aug 17, 2017 1:00 PM, "Joseph Norton via Talk" < 
>> talk@lists.window-eyes.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Ah, I think I see where you’re going with this.
>>>
>>> Are you saying things may be getting to a point where the cost of
>>> maintaining JAWS is greater than anyone wants to pay in terms of
>>> keeping the company going?
>>>
>>> I know it’s not because of Narrator being a superior product on the
>>> Windows side.  It is improving, but, not enough for many of us to get
>>> rid of JAWS.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Sent from Mail for Windows 10
>>>
>>> From: Olusegun -- Victory Associates LTD, Inc. via Talk
>>> Sent: Wednesday, August 16, 2017 9:02 PM
>>> To: 'Window-Eyes Discussion List'; 'Dennis Long'
>>> Subject: RE: contacting Doug.
>>>
>>> Well, Michael, I once opined that the war Freedom Scientific could not
>>> win in the courts, was well fought and won outside; with its cohorts
>>> and coterie of friends, it succeeded in drowning the boat!
>>>
>>> The merger with AI Square came to me as a surprise; I didn't want to
>>> see it happen, but what voice do I have?
>>>
>>> I long for the day when all these adaptive equipment
>>> developers/manufacturers can TRADE THEIR STOCKS publicly; may be, just
>>> may be, they'll have better stability!  Now, we keep our eyes on the
>>> sparrow, Jaws may be taking its last breath as the venture capitalists
>>> will soon squash its fins!  Then it'll be Apple and Google to fill the
>>> void at least here in the United States!
>>>
>>> Sincerely,
>>> Olusegun
>>> Denver, Colorado
>>>
>>>
>>> ---
>>> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
>>> https://www.avast.com/antivirus
>>>
>>> ___
>>> Any views or opinions presented in this email are solely those of the
>>> author and do not necessarily represent those of Ai Squared.
>>>
>>> For membership options, visit http://lists.window-eyes.com/
>>> options.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com/joseph.norton%40gmail.com.
>>> For subscription options, visit http://lists.window-eyes.com/
>>> listinfo.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com List archives can be found at
>>> http://lists.window-eyes.com/ private.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com
>>>
>>> ___
>>> Any view

Re: contacting Doug.

[michaels mail via Talk]

Ian very well said.
The thing in life is the bigger  companys swallow up the smaller ones.
cheers Michael.

-Original Message- 
From: Ian Westerland via Talk

Sent: Saturday, August 19, 2017 8:04 AM
To: Sky Mundell via Talk
Cc: Ian Westerland
Subject: Re: contacting Doug.


Hello everyone.  I am still using Window-Eyes and the various Android
apps in my smart phone but I think the 4 B's might apply here to FS,
Jaws and screen reading access generally.

What are the 4 B's?

Big, Bigger, Biggest, Bust.
In the longr term, some good will come of it all depending on who thinks
about what is behind the need for top quality Screen reading access.
There are some good things around.
Just some thoughts I've had as I have observed and participated in some
of this Accessibility change and development.

Ian Westerland






On 8/19/2017 7:24 AM, Sky Mundell via Talk wrote:
FS is getting desperate to hang onto their market at any cost. With JAWS 
having a monopoly in the paid market now, the price of JAWS might go up.


-Original Message-
From: Talk [mailto:talk-boun...@lists.window-eyes.com] On Behalf Of Reeva 
Webb via Talk

Sent: Thursday, August 17, 2017 11:42 AM
To: Window-Eyes Discussion List
Cc: Reeva Webb
Subject: RE: contacting Doug.

You can tell fs starting to get desperate. Fs 10 or 15 years ago wouldn't 
have given you discounts on anything. For most the out of the box 
accessibility, android, apple etc. will work for what they need to do. I'm 
curious though, is anyone from gw or pre merger ai2 still around.? 
Everyone i can think of seems to be gone.


"the world has been against you from day one, tomorrow's never promised 
night has just begun, so sing with me we're all fucked" Walls Of Jericho


Reeva

On Aug 17, 2017 1:00 PM, "Joseph Norton via Talk" < 
talk@lists.window-eyes.com> wrote:



Ah, I think I see where you’re going with this.

Are you saying things may be getting to a point where the cost of
maintaining JAWS is greater than anyone wants to pay in terms of
keeping the company going?

I know it’s not because of Narrator being a superior product on the
Windows side.  It is improving, but, not enough for many of us to get
rid of JAWS.



Sent from Mail for Windows 10

From: Olusegun -- Victory Associates LTD, Inc. via Talk
Sent: Wednesday, August 16, 2017 9:02 PM
To: 'Window-Eyes Discussion List'; 'Dennis Long'
Subject: RE: contacting Doug.

Well, Michael, I once opined that the war Freedom Scientific could not
win in the courts, was well fought and won outside; with its cohorts
and coterie of friends, it succeeded in drowning the boat!

The merger with AI Square came to me as a surprise; I didn't want to
see it happen, but what voice do I have?

I long for the day when all these adaptive equipment
developers/manufacturers can TRADE THEIR STOCKS publicly; may be, just
may be, they'll have better stability!  Now, we keep our eyes on the
sparrow, Jaws may be taking its last breath as the venture capitalists
will soon squash its fins!  Then it'll be Apple and Google to fill the
void at least here in the United States!

Sincerely,
Olusegun
Denver, Colorado


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Re: contacting Doug.

[michaels mail via Talk]

Hi Debby i first started with WE version 4.5  SP1.
It came in the old large cardboard pacage with the  cassettes WE has been a 
good screen reader.
I use to get cranky when WE would lose focus on IE but Jaws does the same 
thing.

Cheers Michael.

-Original Message- 
From: Debby Franson via Talk

Sent: Saturday, August 19, 2017 1:00 PM
To: Window-Eyes Discussion List
Cc: Debby Franson
Subject: Re: contacting Doug.

Hi Michael!

I was trying to remember exactly when Window-Eyes was first released. I
know it was in 1995. Here is a page I enjoyed reading that answered that
question for me.

GW Micro - Window-Eyes - Version History

http://www.gwmicro.com/Window-Eyes/Version_History/

Debby

At 08:01 PM 8/17/2017, michaeel's mail via Talk wrote
Well i am still hear i been useing WE since 2004. And i took the offer to 
Jaws as well. Cheers michael. -Original Message- From: Reeva Webb 
via Talk Sent: Friday, August 18, 2017 4:41 AM To: Window-Eyes Discussion 
List Cc: Reeva Webb Subject: RE: contacting Doug. You can tell fs starting 
to get desperate. Fs 10 or 15 years ago wouldn't have given you discounts 
on anything. For most the out of the box accessibility, android, apple etc. 
will work for what they need to do. I'm curious though, is anyone from gw 
or pre merger ai2 still around.? Everyone i can think of seems to be gone. 
"the world has been against you from day one, tomorrow's never promised 
night has just begun, so sing with me we're all fucked" Walls Of Jericho 
Reeva On Aug 17, 2017 1:00 PM, "Joseph Norton via Talk" < 
talk@lists.window-eyes.com> wrote: > Ah, I think I see where you’re going 
with this. > > Are you saying things may be getting to a point where the 
cost of > maintaining JAWS is greater than anyone wants to pay in terms of 
keeping > the company going? > > I know it’s not because of Narrator 
being a superior product on the > Windows side.  It is improving, but, not 
enough for many of us to get rid > of JAWS. > > > > Sent from Mail for 
Windows 10 > > From: Olusegun -- Victory Associates LTD, Inc. via Talk > 
Sent: Wednesday, August 16, 2017 9:02 PM > To: 'Window-Eyes Discussion 
List'; 'Dennis Long' > Subject: RE: contacting Doug. > > Well, Michael, I 
once opined that the war Freedom Scientific could not win > in the courts, 
was well fought and won outside; with its cohorts and > coterie > of 
friends, it succeeded in drowning the boat! > > The merger with AI Square 
came to me as a surprise; I didn't want to see > it > happen, but what 
voice do I have? > > I long for the day when all these adaptive equipment > 
developers/manufacturers can TRADE THEIR STOCKS publicly; may be, just may 
> be, they'll have better stability!  Now, we keep our eyes on the sparrow, 
> Jaws may be taking its last breath as the venture capitalists will soon > 
squash its fins!  Then it'll be Apple and Google to fill the void at least 
> here in the United States! > > Sincerely, > Olusegun > Denver, Colorado > 
> > --- > This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus 
software. > https://www.avast.com/antivirus > > 
___ > Any views or opinions 
presented in this email are solely those of the > author and do not 
necessarily represent those of Ai Squared. > > For membership options, 
visit http://lists.window-eyes.com/ > 
options.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com/joseph.norton%40gmail.com. > For 
subscription options, visit http://lists.window-eyes.com/ > 
listinfo.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com > List archives can be found at 
http://lists.window-eyes.com/ > private.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com > > 
___ > Any views or opinions 
presented in this email are solely those of the > author and do not 
necessarily represent those of Ai Squared. > > For membership options, 
visit http://lists.window-eyes.com/ > 
options.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com/jadedangelpromises%40gmail.com. > For 
subscription options, visit http://lists.window-eyes.com/ > 
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Re: contacting Doug.

[michaels mail via Talk]

Same hear he was very good to us We lovers.
cheers.

-Original Message- 
From: Debby Franson via Talk

Sent: Saturday, August 19, 2017 12:51 PM
To: Window-Eyes Discussion List
Cc: Debby Franson
Subject: Re: contacting Doug.

Hi Michael!

I'm not on Linked In, but I'd love to wish Doug well.

Debby

At 07:58 PM 8/17/2017, michaeel's mail via Talk wrote
Well hear in Australia the cost of a S M A  for 2 versions cost the same 
for WE as For Jaws so no more to pay out. By the way Doug is on lington if 
someone is on their maybe they can get an email so we all could say good by 
to him and thank him for all the good years WE that we enjoyed. Cheers 
michael. -Original Message- From: Joseph Norton via Talk Sent: 
Friday, August 18, 2017 4:00 AM To: ukekearu...@valtdnet.com ; Window-Eyes 
Discussion List ; 'Dennis Long' Cc: Joseph Norton Subject: RE: contacting 
Doug. Ah, I think I see where you’re going with this. Are you saying 
things may be getting to a point where the cost of maintaining JAWS is 
greater than anyone wants to pay in terms of keeping the company going? I 
know it’s not because of Narrator being a superior product on the Windows 
side.  It is improving, but, not enough for many of us to get rid of JAWS. 
Sent from Mail for Windows 10 From: Olusegun -- Victory Associates LTD, 
Inc. via Talk Sent: Wednesday, August 16, 2017 9:02 PM To: 'Window-Eyes 
Discussion List'; 'Dennis Long' Subject: RE: contacting Doug. Well, 
Michael, I once opined that the war Freedom Scientific could not win in the 
courts, was well fought and won outside; with its cohorts and coterie of 
friends, it succeeded in drowning the boat! The merger with AI Square came 
to me as a surprise; I didn't want to see it happen, but what voice do I 
have? I long for the day when all these adaptive equipment 
developers/manufacturers can TRADE THEIR STOCKS publicly; may be, just may 
be, they'll have better stability!  Now, we keep our eyes on the sparrow, 
Jaws may be taking its last breath as the venture capitalists will soon 
squash its fins!  Then it'll be Apple and Google to fill the void at least 
here in the United States! Sincerely, Olusegun Denver, Colorado --- This 
email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. 
https://www.avast.com/antivirus 
___ Any views or opinions 
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necessarily represent those of Ai Squared. For membership options, visit 
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Re: contacting Doug.

[Debby Franson via Talk]

Hi Michael!

I was trying to remember exactly when Window-Eyes was first released. I 
know it was in 1995. Here is a page I enjoyed reading that answered that 
question for me.


GW Micro - Window-Eyes - Version History

http://www.gwmicro.com/Window-Eyes/Version_History/

Debby

At 08:01 PM 8/17/2017, michaeel's mail via Talk wrote
Well i am still hear i been useing WE since 2004. And i took the offer to 
Jaws as well. Cheers michael. -Original Message- From: Reeva Webb 
via Talk Sent: Friday, August 18, 2017 4:41 AM To: Window-Eyes Discussion 
List Cc: Reeva Webb Subject: RE: contacting Doug. You can tell fs starting 
to get desperate. Fs 10 or 15 years ago wouldn't have given you discounts 
on anything. For most the out of the box accessibility, android, apple 
etc. will work for what they need to do. I'm curious though, is anyone 
from gw or pre merger ai2 still around.? Everyone i can think of seems to 
be gone. "the world has been against you from day one, tomorrow's never 
promised night has just begun, so sing with me we're all fucked" Walls Of 
Jericho Reeva On Aug 17, 2017 1:00 PM, "Joseph Norton via Talk" < 
talk@lists.window-eyes.com> wrote: > Ah, I think I see where you’re 
going with this. > > Are you saying things may be getting to a point where 
the cost of > maintaining JAWS is greater than anyone wants to pay in 
terms of keeping > the company going? > > I know it’s not because of 
Narrator being a superior product on the > Windows side.  It is improving, 
but, not enough for many of us to get rid > of JAWS. > > > > Sent from 
Mail for Windows 10 > > From: Olusegun -- Victory Associates LTD, Inc. via 
Talk > Sent: Wednesday, August 16, 2017 9:02 PM > To: 'Window-Eyes 
Discussion List'; 'Dennis Long' > Subject: RE: contacting Doug. > > Well, 
Michael, I once opined that the war Freedom Scientific could not win > in 
the courts, was well fought and won outside; with its cohorts and > 
coterie > of friends, it succeeded in drowning the boat! > > The merger 
with AI Square came to me as a surprise; I didn't want to see > it > 
happen, but what voice do I have? > > I long for the day when all these 
adaptive equipment > developers/manufacturers can TRADE THEIR STOCKS 
publicly; may be, just may > be, they'll have better stability!  Now, we 
keep our eyes on the sparrow, > Jaws may be taking its last breath as the 
venture capitalists will soon > squash its fins!  Then it'll be Apple and 
Google to fill the void at least > here in the United States! > > 
Sincerely, > Olusegun > Denver, Colorado > > > --- > This email has been 
checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. > 
https://www.avast.com/antivirus > > 
___ > Any views or opinions 
presented in this email are solely those of the > author and do not 
necessarily represent those of Ai Squared. > > For membership options, 
visit http://lists.window-eyes.com/ > 
options.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com/joseph.norton%40gmail.com. > For 
subscription options, visit http://lists.window-eyes.com/ > 
listinfo.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com > List archives can be found at 
http://lists.window-eyes.com/ > private.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com > > 
___ > Any views or opinions 
presented in this email are solely those of the > author and do not 
necessarily represent those of Ai Squared. > > For membership options, 
visit http://lists.window-eyes.com/ > 
options.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com/jadedangelpromises%40gmail.com. > For 
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Any views or

Re: contacting Doug.

[Debby Franson via Talk]

Hi Michael!

I'm not on Linked In, but I'd love to wish Doug well.

Debby

At 07:58 PM 8/17/2017, michaeel's mail via Talk wrote
Well hear in Australia the cost of a S M A  for 2 versions cost the same 
for WE as For Jaws so no more to pay out. By the way Doug is on lington if 
someone is on their maybe they can get an email so we all could say good 
by to him and thank him for all the good years WE that we enjoyed. Cheers 
michael. -Original Message- From: Joseph Norton via Talk Sent: 
Friday, August 18, 2017 4:00 AM To: ukekearu...@valtdnet.com ; Window-Eyes 
Discussion List ; 'Dennis Long' Cc: Joseph Norton Subject: RE: contacting 
Doug. Ah, I think I see where you’re going with this. Are you saying 
things may be getting to a point where the cost of maintaining JAWS is 
greater than anyone wants to pay in terms of keeping the company going? I 
know it’s not because of Narrator being a superior product on the 
Windows side.  It is improving, but, not enough for many of us to get rid 
of JAWS. Sent from Mail for Windows 10 From: Olusegun -- Victory 
Associates LTD, Inc. via Talk Sent: Wednesday, August 16, 2017 9:02 PM To: 
'Window-Eyes Discussion List'; 'Dennis Long' Subject: RE: contacting Doug. 
Well, Michael, I once opined that the war Freedom Scientific could not win 
in the courts, was well fought and won outside; with its cohorts and 
coterie of friends, it succeeded in drowning the boat! The merger with AI 
Square came to me as a surprise; I didn't want to see it happen, but what 
voice do I have? I long for the day when all these adaptive equipment 
developers/manufacturers can TRADE THEIR STOCKS publicly; may be, just may 
be, they'll have better stability!  Now, we keep our eyes on the sparrow, 
Jaws may be taking its last breath as the venture capitalists will soon 
squash its fins!  Then it'll be Apple and Google to fill the void at least 
here in the United States! Sincerely, Olusegun Denver, Colorado --- This 
email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. 
https://www.avast.com/antivirus 
___ Any views or opinions 
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RE: contacting Doug.

[Debby Franson via Talk]

Hi Olusegun!

I agree. The bar was set so high with Window-Eyes, that nothing else has 
reached as high, and I don't think anything will. That was why, when I read 
the end of life pop-up, I literally grieved, knowing that my first love in 
screen readers had caught the disease of obsolescence   , because of no 
more development, even though, as we all know, it's working fine now.
 I also felt bad for those who were at GW Micro/AI Squared, because they 
got a raw deal. Although I migrated to JAWS and will install it on my new 
build when I get the rest of my parts in September

, I will never feel as strongly about JAWS as I do about Window-Eyes
, wich does so many things in a straight-forward, elegant and streamlined way.

I got out my Window-Eyes 9.0 CD so that I could listen to Doug's welcome 
message about installing Window-Eyes with or without speech. It was nice to 
listen to that again.


Debby

At 04:23 PM 8/17/2017, Olusegun -- Victory Associates LTD, wrote
 in part


Jaws best screen reader?  Even though Window-Eyes is dead, there's so much
that it does far better than Jaws!  Try routing your cursor to the mouse
pointer; Window-Eyes does a much, much better job of landing you on the
element you need.  If Jaws is the Thane and Cawdor, how come it doesn't give
or grant unfettered access to the entire innards of Windows?


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RE: contacting Doug.

[Sky Mundell via Talk]

Yeah they could have sued VFO.

-Original Message-
From: Talk [mailto:talk-boun...@lists.window-eyes.com] On Behalf Of Reeva
Webb via Talk
Sent: Friday, August 18, 2017 4:47 PM
To: bjn...@windstream.net; Window-Eyes Discussion List
Cc: Reeva Webb
Subject: Re: contacting Doug.

Yep, the free jfw for sma holders they had to do. Otherwise sma holders
could've sued.

"the world has been against you from day one, tomorrow's never promised
night has just begun, so sing with me we're all fucked" Walls Of Jericho

Reeva

On Aug 18, 2017 6:41 PM, "Brenda via Talk" <talk@lists.window-eyes.com>
wrote:

> My thoughts...
>
> I thought the NFB was supposed to help blind people - surprised they 
> would sell out to a single screen reader, especially an inferior one.
>
> aaron smithwas at VFO as Enterprise Compliance specialist.  I don't 
> think VFO gave us Jaws because they wanted to, they may have had to 
> legally for some reason.  wonder if aaron is still there or if he left 
> with Doug.  I think he lived in Ft. Wayne so I'm thinking he worked 
> remotely until he was no longer needed.
>
> I suspect there are some folks that are still in contact with doug - 
> if so, please convey my, and probably all listers, appreciation to 
> him.  It would have been nice if Doug had said goodbye on this list, 
> but I suspect that would have stirred things up again.
>
> I think Jaws has a better chance of survival because it has better 
> financial backing and a more diversified product line.  I really feel 
> Hims did GW in after using GW to enter the U.S. market then going off 
> on their own. I took a training class at GW when GW was working with 
> Hims to develop and market the booksense and the folks at GW were so 
> pleased/excited about this product.
>
> All that being said, it never hurts to have multiple tools in the 
> toolbox so I will learn jaws eventually. I just can't think in Jaws very
well yet.
>
> I think I covered everything I wanted in response to the emails in 
> this thread.
> Brenda
>
>
>
> On 8/17/2017 2:45 PM, Dennis Long via Talk wrote:
>
>> Hear is why I say Jaws is going nowhere.  1 state agencies and 
>> government contracts.  2 it's better than any other screen reader 
>> currently in development.  3 NFB.
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: Talk [mailto:talk-boun...@lists.window-eyes.com] On Behalf Of 
>> ratshtron via Talk
>> Sent: Thursday, August 17, 2017 10:50 AM
>> To: ukekearu...@valtdnet.com; Window-Eyes Discussion List
>> Cc: ratshtron
>> Subject: RE: contacting Doug.
>>
>> hmmm, if you can't beat the competition, kill it! I believe I'm going 
>> to switch to apple, BIG GRIN!
>>
>>
>> Legend has it that on Wednesday 8/16/2017 08:02 PM, Olusegun -- 
>> Victory Associates LTD, said:
>> 
>>
>>> Well, Michael, I once opined that the war Freedom Scientific could 
>>> not win in the courts, was well fought and won outside; with its 
>>> cohorts and
>>>
>> coterie
>>
>>> of friends, it succeeded in drowning the boat!
>>>
>>> The merger with AI Square came to me as a surprise; I didn't want to 
>>> see it happen, but what voice do I have?
>>>
>>> I long for the day when all these adaptive equipment 
>>> developers/manufacturers can TRADE THEIR STOCKS publicly; may be, 
>>> just may be, they'll have better stability!  Now, we keep our eyes 
>>> on the sparrow, Jaws may be taking its last breath as the venture 
>>> capitalists will soon squash its fins!  Then it'll be Apple and 
>>> Google to fill the void at least here in the United States!
>>>
>>> Sincerely,
>>> Olusegun
>>> Denver, Colorado
>>>
>>>
>>> ---
>>> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
>>> https://www.avast.com/antivirus
>>>
>>> ___
>>> Any views or opinions presented in this email are solely those of 
>>> the author and do not necessarily represent those of Ai Squared.
>>>
>>> For membership options, visit
>>> http://lists.window-eyes.com/options.cgi/talk-window-eyes.co
>>> m/northstarr195
>>>
>> 0%40gmail.com.
>>
>>> For subscription options, visit
>>> http://lists.window-eyes.com/listinfo.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com
>>> List archives can be found at
>>> http://lists.window-eyes.com/private.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com
>>>
>> 
>>
>> __

Re: contacting Doug.

[Reeva Webb via Talk]

Yep, the free jfw for sma holders they had to do. Otherwise sma holders
could've sued.

"the world has been against you from day one, tomorrow's never promised
night has just begun, so sing with me we're all fucked" Walls Of Jericho

Reeva

On Aug 18, 2017 6:41 PM, "Brenda via Talk" <talk@lists.window-eyes.com>
wrote:

> My thoughts...
>
> I thought the NFB was supposed to help blind people - surprised they would
> sell out to a single screen reader, especially an inferior one.
>
> aaron smithwas at VFO as Enterprise Compliance specialist.  I don't think
> VFO gave us Jaws because they wanted to, they may have had to legally for
> some reason.  wonder if aaron is still there or if he left with Doug.  I
> think he lived in Ft. Wayne so I'm thinking he worked remotely until he was
> no longer needed.
>
> I suspect there are some folks that are still in contact with doug - if
> so, please convey my, and probably all listers, appreciation to him.  It
> would have been nice if Doug had said goodbye on this list, but I suspect
> that would have stirred things up again.
>
> I think Jaws has a better chance of survival because it has better
> financial backing and a more diversified product line.  I really feel Hims
> did GW in after using GW to enter the U.S. market then going off on their
> own. I took a training class at GW when GW was working with Hims to develop
> and market the booksense and the folks at GW were so pleased/excited about
> this product.
>
> All that being said, it never hurts to have multiple tools in the toolbox
> so I will learn jaws eventually. I just can't think in Jaws very well yet.
>
> I think I covered everything I wanted in response to the emails in this
> thread.
> Brenda
>
>
>
> On 8/17/2017 2:45 PM, Dennis Long via Talk wrote:
>
>> Hear is why I say Jaws is going nowhere.  1 state agencies and government
>> contracts.  2 it's better than any other screen reader currently in
>> development.  3 NFB.
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: Talk [mailto:talk-boun...@lists.window-eyes.com] On Behalf Of
>> ratshtron via Talk
>> Sent: Thursday, August 17, 2017 10:50 AM
>> To: ukekearu...@valtdnet.com; Window-Eyes Discussion List
>> Cc: ratshtron
>> Subject: RE: contacting Doug.
>>
>> hmmm, if you can't beat the competition, kill it! I believe I'm going to
>> switch to apple, BIG GRIN!
>>
>>
>> Legend has it that on Wednesday 8/16/2017 08:02 PM, Olusegun --
>> Victory Associates LTD, said:
>> 
>>
>>> Well, Michael, I once opined that the war Freedom Scientific could not
>>> win
>>> in the courts, was well fought and won outside; with its cohorts and
>>>
>> coterie
>>
>>> of friends, it succeeded in drowning the boat!
>>>
>>> The merger with AI Square came to me as a surprise; I didn't want to see
>>> it
>>> happen, but what voice do I have?
>>>
>>> I long for the day when all these adaptive equipment
>>> developers/manufacturers can TRADE THEIR STOCKS publicly; may be, just
>>> may
>>> be, they'll have better stability!  Now, we keep our eyes on the sparrow,
>>> Jaws may be taking its last breath as the venture capitalists will soon
>>> squash its fins!  Then it'll be Apple and Google to fill the void at
>>> least
>>> here in the United States!
>>>
>>> Sincerely,
>>> Olusegun
>>> Denver, Colorado
>>>
>>>
>>> ---
>>> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
>>> https://www.avast.com/antivirus
>>>
>>> ___
>>> Any views or opinions presented in this email are solely those of
>>> the author and do not necessarily represent those of Ai Squared.
>>>
>>> For membership options, visit
>>> http://lists.window-eyes.com/options.cgi/talk-window-eyes.co
>>> m/northstarr195
>>>
>> 0%40gmail.com.
>>
>>> For subscription options, visit
>>> http://lists.window-eyes.com/listinfo.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com
>>> List archives can be found at
>>> http://lists.window-eyes.com/private.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com
>>>
>> 
>>
>> ___
>> Any views or opinions presented in this email are solely those of the
>> author
>> and do not necessarily represent those of Ai Squared.
>>
>> For membership options, visit
>> http://lists.window-eyes.com/option

Re: contacting Doug.

[Brenda via Talk]

My thoughts...

I thought the NFB was supposed to help blind people - surprised they 
would sell out to a single screen reader, especially an inferior one.


aaron smithwas at VFO as Enterprise Compliance specialist.  I don't 
think VFO gave us Jaws because they wanted to, they may have had to 
legally for some reason.  wonder if aaron is still there or if he left 
with Doug.  I think he lived in Ft. Wayne so I'm thinking he worked 
remotely until he was no longer needed.


I suspect there are some folks that are still in contact with doug - if 
so, please convey my, and probably all listers, appreciation to him.  It 
would have been nice if Doug had said goodbye on this list, but I 
suspect that would have stirred things up again.


I think Jaws has a better chance of survival because it has better 
financial backing and a more diversified product line.  I really feel 
Hims did GW in after using GW to enter the U.S. market then going off on 
their own. I took a training class at GW when GW was working with Hims 
to develop and market the booksense and the folks at GW were so 
pleased/excited about this product.


All that being said, it never hurts to have multiple tools in the 
toolbox so I will learn jaws eventually. I just can't think in Jaws very 
well yet.


I think I covered everything I wanted in response to the emails in this 
thread.

Brenda



On 8/17/2017 2:45 PM, Dennis Long via Talk wrote:

Hear is why I say Jaws is going nowhere.  1 state agencies and government
contracts.  2 it's better than any other screen reader currently in
development.  3 NFB.

-Original Message-
From: Talk [mailto:talk-boun...@lists.window-eyes.com] On Behalf Of
ratshtron via Talk
Sent: Thursday, August 17, 2017 10:50 AM
To: ukekearu...@valtdnet.com; Window-Eyes Discussion List
Cc: ratshtron
Subject: RE: contacting Doug.

hmmm, if you can't beat the competition, kill it! I believe I'm going to
switch to apple, BIG GRIN!


Legend has it that on Wednesday 8/16/2017 08:02 PM, Olusegun --
Victory Associates LTD, said:


Well, Michael, I once opined that the war Freedom Scientific could not win
in the courts, was well fought and won outside; with its cohorts and

coterie

of friends, it succeeded in drowning the boat!

The merger with AI Square came to me as a surprise; I didn't want to see it
happen, but what voice do I have?

I long for the day when all these adaptive equipment
developers/manufacturers can TRADE THEIR STOCKS publicly; may be, just may
be, they'll have better stability!  Now, we keep our eyes on the sparrow,
Jaws may be taking its last breath as the venture capitalists will soon
squash its fins!  Then it'll be Apple and Google to fill the void at least
here in the United States!

Sincerely,
Olusegun
Denver, Colorado


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Re: contacting Doug.

[Ian Westerland via Talk]

Hello everyone.  I am still using Window-Eyes and the various Android 
apps in my smart phone but I think the 4 B's might apply here to FS, 
Jaws and screen reading access generally.


What are the 4 B's?

Big, Bigger, Biggest, Bust.
In the longr term, some good will come of it all depending on who thinks 
about what is behind the need for top quality Screen reading access.

There are some good things around.
Just some thoughts I've had as I have observed and participated in some 
of this Accessibility change and development.


Ian Westerland






On 8/19/2017 7:24 AM, Sky Mundell via Talk wrote:

FS is getting desperate to hang onto their market at any cost. With JAWS having 
a monopoly in the paid market now, the price of JAWS might go up.

-Original Message-
From: Talk [mailto:talk-boun...@lists.window-eyes.com] On Behalf Of Reeva Webb 
via Talk
Sent: Thursday, August 17, 2017 11:42 AM
To: Window-Eyes Discussion List
Cc: Reeva Webb
Subject: RE: contacting Doug.

You can tell fs starting to get desperate. Fs 10 or 15 years ago wouldn't have 
given you discounts on anything. For most the out of the box accessibility, 
android, apple etc. will work for what they need to do. I'm curious though, is 
anyone from gw or pre merger ai2 still around.? Everyone i can think of seems 
to be gone.

"the world has been against you from day one, tomorrow's never promised night has 
just begun, so sing with me we're all fucked" Walls Of Jericho

Reeva

On Aug 17, 2017 1:00 PM, "Joseph Norton via Talk" < talk@lists.window-eyes.com> 
wrote:


Ah, I think I see where you’re going with this.

Are you saying things may be getting to a point where the cost of
maintaining JAWS is greater than anyone wants to pay in terms of
keeping the company going?

I know it’s not because of Narrator being a superior product on the
Windows side.  It is improving, but, not enough for many of us to get
rid of JAWS.



Sent from Mail for Windows 10

From: Olusegun -- Victory Associates LTD, Inc. via Talk
Sent: Wednesday, August 16, 2017 9:02 PM
To: 'Window-Eyes Discussion List'; 'Dennis Long'
Subject: RE: contacting Doug.

Well, Michael, I once opined that the war Freedom Scientific could not
win in the courts, was well fought and won outside; with its cohorts
and coterie of friends, it succeeded in drowning the boat!

The merger with AI Square came to me as a surprise; I didn't want to
see it happen, but what voice do I have?

I long for the day when all these adaptive equipment
developers/manufacturers can TRADE THEIR STOCKS publicly; may be, just
may be, they'll have better stability!  Now, we keep our eyes on the
sparrow, Jaws may be taking its last breath as the venture capitalists
will soon squash its fins!  Then it'll be Apple and Google to fill the
void at least here in the United States!

Sincerely,
Olusegun
Denver, Colorado


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RE: contacting Doug.

[Sky Mundell via Talk]

FS is getting desperate to hang onto their market at any cost. With JAWS having 
a monopoly in the paid market now, the price of JAWS might go up.

-Original Message-
From: Talk [mailto:talk-boun...@lists.window-eyes.com] On Behalf Of Reeva Webb 
via Talk
Sent: Thursday, August 17, 2017 11:42 AM
To: Window-Eyes Discussion List
Cc: Reeva Webb
Subject: RE: contacting Doug.

You can tell fs starting to get desperate. Fs 10 or 15 years ago wouldn't have 
given you discounts on anything. For most the out of the box accessibility, 
android, apple etc. will work for what they need to do. I'm curious though, is 
anyone from gw or pre merger ai2 still around.? Everyone i can think of seems 
to be gone.

"the world has been against you from day one, tomorrow's never promised night 
has just begun, so sing with me we're all fucked" Walls Of Jericho

Reeva

On Aug 17, 2017 1:00 PM, "Joseph Norton via Talk" < talk@lists.window-eyes.com> 
wrote:

> Ah, I think I see where you’re going with this.
>
> Are you saying things may be getting to a point where the cost of 
> maintaining JAWS is greater than anyone wants to pay in terms of 
> keeping the company going?
>
> I know it’s not because of Narrator being a superior product on the 
> Windows side.  It is improving, but, not enough for many of us to get 
> rid of JAWS.
>
>
>
> Sent from Mail for Windows 10
>
> From: Olusegun -- Victory Associates LTD, Inc. via Talk
> Sent: Wednesday, August 16, 2017 9:02 PM
> To: 'Window-Eyes Discussion List'; 'Dennis Long'
> Subject: RE: contacting Doug.
>
> Well, Michael, I once opined that the war Freedom Scientific could not 
> win in the courts, was well fought and won outside; with its cohorts 
> and coterie of friends, it succeeded in drowning the boat!
>
> The merger with AI Square came to me as a surprise; I didn't want to 
> see it happen, but what voice do I have?
>
> I long for the day when all these adaptive equipment 
> developers/manufacturers can TRADE THEIR STOCKS publicly; may be, just 
> may be, they'll have better stability!  Now, we keep our eyes on the 
> sparrow, Jaws may be taking its last breath as the venture capitalists 
> will soon squash its fins!  Then it'll be Apple and Google to fill the 
> void at least here in the United States!
>
> Sincerely,
> Olusegun
> Denver, Colorado
>
>
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> https://www.avast.com/antivirus
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RE: contacting Doug.

[Olusegun -- Victory Associates LTD, Inc. via Talk]

Russ wrote:

"I wonder if jaws is getting to big to fail?"

Jaws is probably running scared, too afraid to let down the gauntlet!  See
how many times it has changed hands?  Hinter-Joyce, Freedom Scientific, and
now V F O Group.  May be Aerofloat will pick it up next, sell it to HMD, and
somewhere between all these transfers, the shoe might fall into the sea and
the shark fins chopped off.  

Jaws has become so bloated so much so that it's worst than what obtains on
Android phones from manufacturers that customize and add their own stuff to
the mix!  A good example for me:  What is Research It anyway?  Isn't all
that info being pulled from Google?  Now and then it crashes; but Google
moves on, still providing the same info with no crashes!  More silly bells
and whistles get shuffled into the screen reader without any attention being
paid to underlying issues that need fixing.

Ok, enough said!  Let's go WAKE UP Window-Eyes, make it an Android app and
fly a brand-new kite!

Sincerely,
Olusegun
Denver, Colorado


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Re: contacting Doug.

[Russ Kiehne via Talk]

I wonder if jaws is getting to big to fail?

-Original Message- 
From: Joseph Norton via Talk

Sent: Thursday, August 17, 2017 11:00 AM
To: ukekearu...@valtdnet.com ; Window-Eyes Discussion List ; 'Dennis Long'
Cc: Joseph Norton
Subject: RE: contacting Doug.

Ah, I think I see where you’re going with this.

Are you saying things may be getting to a point where the cost of 
maintaining JAWS is greater than anyone wants to pay in terms of keeping the 
company going?


I know it’s not because of Narrator being a superior product on the Windows 
side.  It is improving, but, not enough for many of us to get rid of JAWS.




Sent from Mail for Windows 10

From: Olusegun -- Victory Associates LTD, Inc. via Talk
Sent: Wednesday, August 16, 2017 9:02 PM
To: 'Window-Eyes Discussion List'; 'Dennis Long'
Subject: RE: contacting Doug.

Well, Michael, I once opined that the war Freedom Scientific could not win
in the courts, was well fought and won outside; with its cohorts and coterie
of friends, it succeeded in drowning the boat!

The merger with AI Square came to me as a surprise; I didn't want to see it
happen, but what voice do I have?

I long for the day when all these adaptive equipment
developers/manufacturers can TRADE THEIR STOCKS publicly; may be, just may
be, they'll have better stability!  Now, we keep our eyes on the sparrow,
Jaws may be taking its last breath as the venture capitalists will soon
squash its fins!  Then it'll be Apple and Google to fill the void at least
here in the United States!

Sincerely,
Olusegun
Denver, Colorado


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Re: contacting Doug.

[michaeel's mail via Talk]

Well i am still hear i been useing WE since 2004.
And i took the offer to Jaws as well.
Cheers michael.

-Original Message- 
From: Reeva Webb via Talk

Sent: Friday, August 18, 2017 4:41 AM
To: Window-Eyes Discussion List
Cc: Reeva Webb
Subject: RE: contacting Doug.

You can tell fs starting to get desperate. Fs 10 or 15 years ago wouldn't
have given you discounts on anything. For most the out of the box
accessibility, android, apple etc. will work for what they need to do. I'm
curious though, is anyone from gw or pre merger ai2 still around.? Everyone
i can think of seems to be gone.

"the world has been against you from day one, tomorrow's never promised
night has just begun, so sing with me we're all fucked" Walls Of Jericho

Reeva

On Aug 17, 2017 1:00 PM, "Joseph Norton via Talk" <
talk@lists.window-eyes.com> wrote:


Ah, I think I see where you’re going with this.

Are you saying things may be getting to a point where the cost of
maintaining JAWS is greater than anyone wants to pay in terms of keeping
the company going?

I know it’s not because of Narrator being a superior product on the
Windows side.  It is improving, but, not enough for many of us to get rid
of JAWS.



Sent from Mail for Windows 10

From: Olusegun -- Victory Associates LTD, Inc. via Talk
Sent: Wednesday, August 16, 2017 9:02 PM
To: 'Window-Eyes Discussion List'; 'Dennis Long'
Subject: RE: contacting Doug.

Well, Michael, I once opined that the war Freedom Scientific could not win
in the courts, was well fought and won outside; with its cohorts and
coterie
of friends, it succeeded in drowning the boat!

The merger with AI Square came to me as a surprise; I didn't want to see 
it

happen, but what voice do I have?

I long for the day when all these adaptive equipment
developers/manufacturers can TRADE THEIR STOCKS publicly; may be, just may
be, they'll have better stability!  Now, we keep our eyes on the sparrow,
Jaws may be taking its last breath as the venture capitalists will soon
squash its fins!  Then it'll be Apple and Google to fill the void at least
here in the United States!

Sincerely,
Olusegun
Denver, Colorado


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Re: contacting Doug.

[michaeel's mail via Talk]

Well hear in Australia the cost of a S M A  for 2 versions cost the same for 
WE as For Jaws so no more to pay out.
By the way Doug is on lington if someone is on their maybe they can get an 
email so we all could say good by to him and thank him for all the good 
years WE that we enjoyed.

Cheers michael.

-Original Message- 
From: Joseph Norton via Talk

Sent: Friday, August 18, 2017 4:00 AM
To: ukekearu...@valtdnet.com ; Window-Eyes Discussion List ; 'Dennis Long'
Cc: Joseph Norton
Subject: RE: contacting Doug.

Ah, I think I see where you’re going with this.

Are you saying things may be getting to a point where the cost of 
maintaining JAWS is greater than anyone wants to pay in terms of keeping the 
company going?


I know it’s not because of Narrator being a superior product on the Windows 
side.  It is improving, but, not enough for many of us to get rid of JAWS.




Sent from Mail for Windows 10

From: Olusegun -- Victory Associates LTD, Inc. via Talk
Sent: Wednesday, August 16, 2017 9:02 PM
To: 'Window-Eyes Discussion List'; 'Dennis Long'
Subject: RE: contacting Doug.

Well, Michael, I once opined that the war Freedom Scientific could not win
in the courts, was well fought and won outside; with its cohorts and coterie
of friends, it succeeded in drowning the boat!

The merger with AI Square came to me as a surprise; I didn't want to see it
happen, but what voice do I have?

I long for the day when all these adaptive equipment
developers/manufacturers can TRADE THEIR STOCKS publicly; may be, just may
be, they'll have better stability!  Now, we keep our eyes on the sparrow,
Jaws may be taking its last breath as the venture capitalists will soon
squash its fins!  Then it'll be Apple and Google to fill the void at least
here in the United States!

Sincerely,
Olusegun
Denver, Colorado


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RE: contacting Doug.

[Olusegun -- Victory Associates LTD, Inc. via Talk]

Chief Dennis, technology will overtake NFB and force it to THINK OUT OF THE
BOX!  Remember, it was against tactile markings on the dollar bill to make
it easy for you and I to identify.  It actually filed what in law is known
as AMICUS BRIEF, in layman's and laywoman's language, FRIEND OF THE COURT
brief in support of the appeal by the Bush Administration.

Guess what?  Common sense prevailed, the appeal was lost and the Supreme
Court refused to take on the case.  

But why didn't NFB want tactile markings on the dollar bill?  Simple.  It
would have made it possible for it to continue MILKING me by selling me a
note teller at $50 or more.  Now, I get the so-called note teller for free
until the Department of Treasury begins rolling out accessible dollar bills!
Well, not a big loss because it made it up by selling its KNFB Reader for
$99.99!  I didn't however buy it at that price:  Thanks to what Android does
well, I paid $19.99!  Even now, I barely use it.  I am constantly looking
for something in the mainstream that's even cheaper and much better and with
regular updates to boot.

As for state agencies, they are constantly STRAPPED FOR CASH!  It's a reason
why one MUST SPEND ENDLESS HOURS trying to JUSTIFY the need for this and
that.  Eventually, they'll be forced to seek out cheaper alternatives.  

Jaws best screen reader?  Even though Window-Eyes is dead, there's so much
that it does far better than Jaws!  Try routing your cursor to the mouse
pointer; Window-Eyes does a much, much better job of landing you on the
element you need.  If Jaws is the Thane and Cawdor, how come it doesn't give
or grant unfettered access to the entire innards of Windows?  

I wish GW Micro, Inc. had elected to develop for the Android platform.  I
bet you, if it had, it shall have knocked ShinePlus out of the ballpark and
give even Talkback a scary run!  And, ah, if the price is NOT TOO HIGH, it
will GAIN MANY MORE customers worldwide via the Google PlayStore.

Sincerely,
Olusegun
Denver, Colorado 


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Re: contacting Doug.

[Loy via Talk]

Aaron Smith was still there a while ago, but he may be gone now.
  - Original Message - 
  From: Reeva Webb via Talk 
  To: Window-Eyes Discussion List 
  Cc: Reeva Webb 
  Sent: Thursday, August 17, 2017 2:41 PM
  Subject: RE: contacting Doug.


  You can tell fs starting to get desperate. Fs 10 or 15 years ago wouldn't
  have given you discounts on anything. For most the out of the box
  accessibility, android, apple etc. will work for what they need to do. I'm
  curious though, is anyone from gw or pre merger ai2 still around.? Everyone
  i can think of seems to be gone.

  "the world has been against you from day one, tomorrow's never promised
  night has just begun, so sing with me we're all fucked" Walls Of Jericho

  Reeva

  On Aug 17, 2017 1:00 PM, "Joseph Norton via Talk" <
  talk@lists.window-eyes.com> wrote:

  > Ah, I think I see where you’re going with this.
  >
  > Are you saying things may be getting to a point where the cost of
  > maintaining JAWS is greater than anyone wants to pay in terms of keeping
  > the company going?
  >
  > I know it’s not because of Narrator being a superior product on the
  > Windows side.  It is improving, but, not enough for many of us to get rid
  > of JAWS.
  >
  >
  >
  > Sent from Mail for Windows 10
  >
  > From: Olusegun -- Victory Associates LTD, Inc. via Talk
  > Sent: Wednesday, August 16, 2017 9:02 PM
  > To: 'Window-Eyes Discussion List'; 'Dennis Long'
  > Subject: RE: contacting Doug.
  >
  > Well, Michael, I once opined that the war Freedom Scientific could not win
  > in the courts, was well fought and won outside; with its cohorts and
  > coterie
  > of friends, it succeeded in drowning the boat!
  >
  > The merger with AI Square came to me as a surprise; I didn't want to see it
  > happen, but what voice do I have?
  >
  > I long for the day when all these adaptive equipment
  > developers/manufacturers can TRADE THEIR STOCKS publicly; may be, just may
  > be, they'll have better stability!  Now, we keep our eyes on the sparrow,
  > Jaws may be taking its last breath as the venture capitalists will soon
  > squash its fins!  Then it'll be Apple and Google to fill the void at least
  > here in the United States!
  >
  > Sincerely,
  > Olusegun
  > Denver, Colorado
  >
  >
  > ---
  > This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
  > https://www.avast.com/antivirus
  >
  > ___
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  > author and do not necessarily represent those of Ai Squared.
  >
  > For membership options, visit http://lists.window-eyes.com/
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  >
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RE: contacting Doug.

[Dennis Long via Talk]

Hear is why I say Jaws is going nowhere.  1 state agencies and government
contracts.  2 it's better than any other screen reader currently in
development.  3 NFB.

-Original Message-
From: Talk [mailto:talk-boun...@lists.window-eyes.com] On Behalf Of
ratshtron via Talk
Sent: Thursday, August 17, 2017 10:50 AM
To: ukekearu...@valtdnet.com; Window-Eyes Discussion List
Cc: ratshtron
Subject: RE: contacting Doug.

hmmm, if you can't beat the competition, kill it! I believe I'm going to
switch to apple, BIG GRIN!


Legend has it that on Wednesday 8/16/2017 08:02 PM, Olusegun -- 
Victory Associates LTD, said:

>Well, Michael, I once opined that the war Freedom Scientific could not win
>in the courts, was well fought and won outside; with its cohorts and
coterie
>of friends, it succeeded in drowning the boat!
>
>The merger with AI Square came to me as a surprise; I didn't want to see it
>happen, but what voice do I have?
>
>I long for the day when all these adaptive equipment
>developers/manufacturers can TRADE THEIR STOCKS publicly; may be, just may
>be, they'll have better stability!  Now, we keep our eyes on the sparrow,
>Jaws may be taking its last breath as the venture capitalists will soon
>squash its fins!  Then it'll be Apple and Google to fill the void at least
>here in the United States!
>
>Sincerely,
>Olusegun
>Denver, Colorado
>
>
>---
>This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
>https://www.avast.com/antivirus
>
>___
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>the author and do not necessarily represent those of Ai Squared.
>
>For membership options, visit 
>http://lists.window-eyes.com/options.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com/northstarr195
0%40gmail.com.
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RE: contacting Doug.

[Reeva Webb via Talk]

You can tell fs starting to get desperate. Fs 10 or 15 years ago wouldn't
have given you discounts on anything. For most the out of the box
accessibility, android, apple etc. will work for what they need to do. I'm
curious though, is anyone from gw or pre merger ai2 still around.? Everyone
i can think of seems to be gone.

"the world has been against you from day one, tomorrow's never promised
night has just begun, so sing with me we're all fucked" Walls Of Jericho

Reeva

On Aug 17, 2017 1:00 PM, "Joseph Norton via Talk" <
talk@lists.window-eyes.com> wrote:

> Ah, I think I see where you’re going with this.
>
> Are you saying things may be getting to a point where the cost of
> maintaining JAWS is greater than anyone wants to pay in terms of keeping
> the company going?
>
> I know it’s not because of Narrator being a superior product on the
> Windows side.  It is improving, but, not enough for many of us to get rid
> of JAWS.
>
>
>
> Sent from Mail for Windows 10
>
> From: Olusegun -- Victory Associates LTD, Inc. via Talk
> Sent: Wednesday, August 16, 2017 9:02 PM
> To: 'Window-Eyes Discussion List'; 'Dennis Long'
> Subject: RE: contacting Doug.
>
> Well, Michael, I once opined that the war Freedom Scientific could not win
> in the courts, was well fought and won outside; with its cohorts and
> coterie
> of friends, it succeeded in drowning the boat!
>
> The merger with AI Square came to me as a surprise; I didn't want to see it
> happen, but what voice do I have?
>
> I long for the day when all these adaptive equipment
> developers/manufacturers can TRADE THEIR STOCKS publicly; may be, just may
> be, they'll have better stability!  Now, we keep our eyes on the sparrow,
> Jaws may be taking its last breath as the venture capitalists will soon
> squash its fins!  Then it'll be Apple and Google to fill the void at least
> here in the United States!
>
> Sincerely,
> Olusegun
> Denver, Colorado
>
>
> ---
> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
> https://www.avast.com/antivirus
>
> ___
> Any views or opinions presented in this email are solely those of the
> author and do not necessarily represent those of Ai Squared.
>
> For membership options, visit http://lists.window-eyes.com/
> options.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com/joseph.norton%40gmail.com.
> For subscription options, visit http://lists.window-eyes.com/
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> private.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com
>
> ___
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> author and do not necessarily represent those of Ai Squared.
>
> For membership options, visit http://lists.window-eyes.com/
> options.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com/jadedangelpromises%40gmail.com.
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RE: contacting Doug.

[Joseph Norton via Talk]

Ah, I think I see where you’re going with this.

Are you saying things may be getting to a point where the cost of maintaining 
JAWS is greater than anyone wants to pay in terms of keeping the company going?

I know it’s not because of Narrator being a superior product on the Windows 
side.  It is improving, but, not enough for many of us to get rid of JAWS.



Sent from Mail for Windows 10

From: Olusegun -- Victory Associates LTD, Inc. via Talk
Sent: Wednesday, August 16, 2017 9:02 PM
To: 'Window-Eyes Discussion List'; 'Dennis Long'
Subject: RE: contacting Doug.

Well, Michael, I once opined that the war Freedom Scientific could not win
in the courts, was well fought and won outside; with its cohorts and coterie
of friends, it succeeded in drowning the boat!  

The merger with AI Square came to me as a surprise; I didn't want to see it
happen, but what voice do I have?

I long for the day when all these adaptive equipment
developers/manufacturers can TRADE THEIR STOCKS publicly; may be, just may
be, they'll have better stability!  Now, we keep our eyes on the sparrow,
Jaws may be taking its last breath as the venture capitalists will soon
squash its fins!  Then it'll be Apple and Google to fill the void at least
here in the United States!

Sincerely,
Olusegun
Denver, Colorado


---
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https://www.avast.com/antivirus

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RE: contacting Doug.

[ratshtron via Talk]

hmmm, if you can't beat the competition, kill it! I believe I'm going 
to switch to apple, BIG GRIN!



Legend has it that on Wednesday 8/16/2017 08:02 PM, Olusegun -- 
Victory Associates LTD, said:



Well, Michael, I once opined that the war Freedom Scientific could not win
in the courts, was well fought and won outside; with its cohorts and coterie
of friends, it succeeded in drowning the boat!

The merger with AI Square came to me as a surprise; I didn't want to see it
happen, but what voice do I have?

I long for the day when all these adaptive equipment
developers/manufacturers can TRADE THEIR STOCKS publicly; may be, just may
be, they'll have better stability!  Now, we keep our eyes on the sparrow,
Jaws may be taking its last breath as the venture capitalists will soon
squash its fins!  Then it'll be Apple and Google to fill the void at least
here in the United States!

Sincerely,
Olusegun
Denver, Colorado


---
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https://www.avast.com/antivirus

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RE: contacting Doug.

[Olusegun -- Victory Associates LTD, Inc. via Talk]

Denis, when Window-Eyes was a sick, comatose child with no drugs left in the
arsenal to propel it back to life, we said so and were rebuffed by many.
Look what happened!  Those of us who knew and were not afraid or ashamed to
say so came out swinging like champions that won all four
championships--World Series, Super Bowl, The NBA, Hockey and more!  

If there's still enough breathable air left in these bones of mine, the I
TOLD YOU SO moment may jolly well get the Big Ben ringing again even though
it has been shut down until 2021 for renovation.

Sincerely,
Olusegun
Denver, Colorado


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RE: contacting Doug.

[Olusegun -- Victory Associates LTD, Inc. via Talk]

Well, Michael, I once opined that the war Freedom Scientific could not win
in the courts, was well fought and won outside; with its cohorts and coterie
of friends, it succeeded in drowning the boat!  

The merger with AI Square came to me as a surprise; I didn't want to see it
happen, but what voice do I have?

I long for the day when all these adaptive equipment
developers/manufacturers can TRADE THEIR STOCKS publicly; may be, just may
be, they'll have better stability!  Now, we keep our eyes on the sparrow,
Jaws may be taking its last breath as the venture capitalists will soon
squash its fins!  Then it'll be Apple and Google to fill the void at least
here in the United States!

Sincerely,
Olusegun
Denver, Colorado


---
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Re: contacting Doug.

[michael fridey via Talk]

Very true.
On 17/08/2017 10:29 AM, Sky Mundell via Talk wrote:

Neither am I. Doug now feels betrayed by AI Squared and VFO. He will always
regret not getting a good share of the market.

-Original Message-
From: Talk [mailto:talk-bounces+skyt=shaw...@lists.window-eyes.com] On
Behalf Of Dennis Long via Talk
Sent: Wednesday, August 16, 2017 5:27 PM
To: 'michael fridey'; 'Window-Eyes Discussion List'
Subject: RE: contacting Doug.

I'm not surprised by this.

-Original Message-
From: Talk [mailto:talk-bounces+dennisl1982=gmail@lists.window-eyes.com]
On Behalf Of michael fridey via Talk
Sent: Wednesday, August 16, 2017 7:48 PM
To: window eyes help list
Subject: contacting Doug.

Hi guys i sent Doug an email and got the responce below saying he does not
work for VFO any more.

Its a bit sad he did not get to say good by on the list.

Doug was a good person and did his best for us Window Eyes users.

Cheers michael.



 Forwarded Message 
Subject:FW: helo Doug from michael.
Date:   Wed, 16 Aug 2017 20:08:39 +
From:   Julie Moore <jmo...@vfogroup.com>
To: michaelandjea...@aapt.net.au <michaelandjea...@aapt.net.au>



Hello Michael,

Doug Geoffray no longer works for VFO.  His emails are being forwarded to
me, and unfortunately, I do not have a forwarding address for him.

Kind Regards,

Julie

*Julie Moore*

*VFOT *| Manager, Enterprise Compliance

11800 31^st Court North, St. Petersburg, FL 33716

*T*800-444-4443 x6112 *F* 802-362-1670

jmo...@vfogroup.com <mailto:jmo...@vfogroup.com>

www.vfo-group.com <http://www.vfo-group.com/>

*From:*michael's emails [mailto:michaelandjea...@aapt.net.au]
*Sent:* Wednesday, August 16, 2017 12:51 AM
*To:* Doug Geoffray <dgeoff...@vfogroup.com <mailto:dgeoff...@vfogroup.com>>
*Subject:* helo Doug from michael.

Hi Doug i was wondering if your still around and working.

cheers Michael.

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--
alians are not just from out of space we have them on earth

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Re: contacting Doug.

[michael fridey via Talk]

Its sad most of the gw micro starf got to say good by to us.

He fort for us to get Jaws after all that happened.

He made the best screen reader.

cheers Michael.


On 17/08/2017 10:26 AM, Dennis Long wrote:

I'm not surprised by this.

-Original Message-
From: Talk [mailto:talk-bounces+dennisl1982=gmail@lists.window-eyes.com]
On Behalf Of michael fridey via Talk
Sent: Wednesday, August 16, 2017 7:48 PM
To: window eyes help list
Subject: contacting Doug.

Hi guys i sent Doug an email and got the responce below saying he does not
work for VFO any more.

Its a bit sad he did not get to say good by on the list.

Doug was a good person and did his best for us Window Eyes users.

Cheers michael.



 Forwarded Message 
Subject:FW: helo Doug from michael.
Date:   Wed, 16 Aug 2017 20:08:39 +
From:   Julie Moore <jmo...@vfogroup.com>
To: michaelandjea...@aapt.net.au <michaelandjea...@aapt.net.au>



Hello Michael,

Doug Geoffray no longer works for VFO.  His emails are being forwarded to
me, and unfortunately, I do not have a forwarding address for him.

Kind Regards,

Julie

*Julie Moore*

*VFOT *| Manager, Enterprise Compliance

11800 31^st Court North, St. Petersburg, FL 33716

*T*800-444-4443 x6112 *F* 802-362-1670

jmo...@vfogroup.com <mailto:jmo...@vfogroup.com>

www.vfo-group.com <http://www.vfo-group.com/>

*From:*michael's emails [mailto:michaelandjea...@aapt.net.au]
*Sent:* Wednesday, August 16, 2017 12:51 AM
*To:* Doug Geoffray <dgeoff...@vfogroup.com <mailto:dgeoff...@vfogroup.com>>
*Subject:* helo Doug from michael.

Hi Doug i was wondering if your still around and working.

cheers Michael.

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RE: contacting Doug.

[Dennis Long via Talk]

I'm not surprised by this.

-Original Message-
From: Talk [mailto:talk-bounces+dennisl1982=gmail@lists.window-eyes.com]
On Behalf Of michael fridey via Talk
Sent: Wednesday, August 16, 2017 7:48 PM
To: window eyes help list
Subject: contacting Doug.

Hi guys i sent Doug an email and got the responce below saying he does not
work for VFO any more.

Its a bit sad he did not get to say good by on the list.

Doug was a good person and did his best for us Window Eyes users.

Cheers michael.



 Forwarded Message 
Subject:FW: helo Doug from michael.
Date:   Wed, 16 Aug 2017 20:08:39 +
From:   Julie Moore <jmo...@vfogroup.com>
To: michaelandjea...@aapt.net.au <michaelandjea...@aapt.net.au>



Hello Michael,

Doug Geoffray no longer works for VFO.  His emails are being forwarded to
me, and unfortunately, I do not have a forwarding address for him.

Kind Regards,

Julie

*Julie Moore*

*VFOT *| Manager, Enterprise Compliance

11800 31^st Court North, St. Petersburg, FL 33716

*T*800-444-4443 x6112 *F* 802-362-1670

jmo...@vfogroup.com <mailto:jmo...@vfogroup.com>

www.vfo-group.com <http://www.vfo-group.com/>

*From:*michael's emails [mailto:michaelandjea...@aapt.net.au]
*Sent:* Wednesday, August 16, 2017 12:51 AM
*To:* Doug Geoffray <dgeoff...@vfogroup.com <mailto:dgeoff...@vfogroup.com>>
*Subject:* helo Doug from michael.

Hi Doug i was wondering if your still around and working.

cheers Michael.

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contacting Doug.

[michael fridey via Talk]

Hi guys i sent Doug an email and got the responce below saying he does 
not work for VFO any more.


Its a bit sad he did not get to say good by on the list.

Doug was a good person and did his best for us Window Eyes users.

Cheers michael.



 Forwarded Message 
Subject:FW: helo Doug from michael.
Date:   Wed, 16 Aug 2017 20:08:39 +
From:   Julie Moore 
To: michaelandjea...@aapt.net.au 



Hello Michael,

Doug Geoffray no longer works for VFO.  His emails are being forwarded 
to me, and unfortunately, I do not have a forwarding address for him.


Kind Regards,

Julie

*Julie Moore*

*VFO™ *| Manager, Enterprise Compliance

11800 31^st Court North, St. Petersburg, FL 33716

*T*800-444-4443 x6112 *F* 802-362-1670

jmo...@vfogroup.com 

www.vfo-group.com 

*From:*michael's emails [mailto:michaelandjea...@aapt.net.au]
*Sent:* Wednesday, August 16, 2017 12:51 AM
*To:* Doug Geoffray >
*Subject:* helo Doug from michael.

Hi Doug i was wondering if your still around and working.

cheers Michael.

___
Any views or opinions presented in this email are solely those of the author 
and do not necessarily represent those of Ai Squared.

For membership options, visit 
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