Re: [OSM-talk] The Proposed Great Colour Shift
On 2015-08-21 03:13, Colin Smale wrote: While we are at it, what about specific symbols for train/metro stations per operator? That is also a great landmark for map users. I'd love to see that in the Transportation map. The difference with highway shields is that the Standard style is already badging highways, but in a format that seems foreign to people in the U.S. -- m...@nguyen.cincinnati.oh.us ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk-fr] highway et limites administratives confondues
Bonjour Le 21/08/2015 12:14, sebastien.bugzi...@gmail.com a écrit : Pour la séparation des chemins je trouve que c'est mieux d'avoir des objets indépendants. Je suis sur le même principe, je sépare route et limite administrative et cours d'eau et occupation du terrain. même si OSMmement c'est de l'ordre de la vingtaine de centimètre. C'est galère au début, mais ensuite, c'est mieux côté pratique. Cordialement -- David Crochet ___ Talk-fr mailing list Talk-fr@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-fr
Re: [Talk-it] mappare specie vegetali linkando wikipedia
matteo ruffoni wrote Sto pensando a cosa fare a scuola di open ques'anno pensavo di mappare specie vegetali (e o animali l'orso!?!?!?) su openstreemap e/o progetti correlati linkando su wikipedia le schede di presentazione delle specie Avrei bisogno di qualche suggerimento? ciao matteo Ps so usare crowdmap (classico) e con quello potrei fare una cosa tipo tenno.crowdmap.com, mi piacerebbe però poter essere un minimo più collaborativo onestamente per le piante direi che sarebbe più utile a mio avviso l'uso di wikidata...il problema è che devi associare wikidata (così come wikipedia) alla specie e non all'elemento...per esempio un pino secolare particolarmente importante potrebbe avere una pagina wiki che parla del pino come specie e una pagina wiki che parla di quello specifico pino...bisogna usare un sistema di tag che specifichi meglio a cosa si riferisce... a mio avviso è un lavoro lungo e ci sono altri elementi mappabili più rapidamente ed ugualmente importanti - Ciao, Aury -- View this message in context: http://gis.19327.n5.nabble.com/mappare-specie-vegetali-linkando-wikipedia-tp5852818p5852891.html Sent from the Italy General mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ Talk-it mailing list Talk-it@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-it
Re: [OSM-talk] The Proposed Great Colour Shift
W dniu 22.08.2015 1:47, Richard Mann napisał(a): I'd be tempted to leave motorways as blue - it's not such a critical problem as the invisible green trunk roads. Adding one For me the problem is the same - blue looks like a river and I don't know why at least some of UK-ers likes to see the London area roads like this (I mean: having to spot two most important road types!): http://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=9/51.3289/-0.0673 Its not that UK style doesn't work for the rest of the world, it also doesn't work for UK on OSM, because we have much more data visible than other maps. That's not against this or any other local styling - I never underestimate the power of old habits and I'd like the people to have what they want on the output, no matter why they want it, but it's just not going to happen as long as default style has a mission to be universal. -- The train is always on time / The trick is to be ready to put your bags down [A. Cohen] ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [Talk-it] mappare specie vegetali linkando wikipedia
voschix wrote - sono anche molto variabili col tempo e praticamente impossibili da aggiornare. Io sarei in favore di togliere quasi completamente crop come soia, frumento, granoturco da OSM. +1 se sono associati a coltivazioni variabili...secondo me bisognerebbe trovare un tag che indichi che viene fatta la rotazione delle coltivazioni (e al massimo elencare il tipo di coltivazioni) se proprio vogliamo descrivere meglio i campi...mettere un value da solo che nella maggior parte del tempo non sarà esatto non è a mio avviso utile alla mappa. ci sono coltivazioni invece che per caratteristiche di coltivazioni richiedono tecniche particolari, tipo la coltivazione del riso che prevede campi associati a canali ed argini di allagamento e in quel caso il tag crop potrebbe essere più utile (tra l'altro anche a riposo una risaia è chiaramente distinguibile dagli altri tipi di coltivazione) Gli alberi importati sono in OSM solo decorazione. Il numero di falsi positivi e falsi negativi è enorme. Inoltre rendono invisibili i pochi alberi significativi inseriti a mano. Volker (Padova) +1 anche per questo...non mappiamo per decorare e a mio avviso se il numero di falsi positivi è così elevato si potrebbe pensare di fare il revert di quell'import così da lasciare solamente gli alberi aggiunti a mano - Ciao, Aury -- View this message in context: http://gis.19327.n5.nabble.com/mappare-specie-vegetali-linkando-wikipedia-tp5852818p5852893.html Sent from the Italy General mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ Talk-it mailing list Talk-it@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-it
Re: [OSM-talk] The Proposed Great Colour Shift
Purple motorways would be a problem in the Severn Estuary: http://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=11/51.5850/-2.6402 On Sat, Aug 22, 2015 at 11:10 AM, Daniel Koć daniel@koć.pl wrote: W dniu 22.08.2015 1:47, Richard Mann napisał(a): I'd be tempted to leave motorways as blue - it's not such a critical problem as the invisible green trunk roads. Adding one For me the problem is the same - blue looks like a river and I don't know why at least some of UK-ers likes to see the London area roads like this (I mean: having to spot two most important road types!): http://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=9/51.3289/-0.0673 Its not that UK style doesn't work for the rest of the world, it also doesn't work for UK on OSM, because we have much more data visible than other maps. That's not against this or any other local styling - I never underestimate the power of old habits and I'd like the people to have what they want on the output, no matter why they want it, but it's just not going to happen as long as default style has a mission to be universal. -- The train is always on time / The trick is to be ready to put your bags down [A. Cohen] ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] The Proposed Great Colour Shift
On 20/08/15 02:16, Jóhannes Birgir Jensson wrote: The design goal seems straight forward, to discontinue green and blue for roads and move to red and reddish. For this to happen the decision was made to shift current primary, secondary and tertiary colours upwards so primary is now the colour of secondary and secondary the colour of tertiary. Leaving tertiary white. Just thought I'd highlight the sort of WTF problems that will need to be addressed if the main style sheet does change ... http://www.sabre-roads.org.uk/wiki/index.php?title=Pease_Pottage_Interchange YES the green on the map is a problem, ...it should be the same colour as on the left then it will stand out, and the blue and red should also be darker which I'm currently tinkering with on my own server. The main problem here is that OSM is used by a large part of the UK web services, and any change needs to be managed in such a manor that those services are not too badly affected. We do not have a list of every site actually using OSM over google, and the vast majority of users will not be following this list, so some other notification process needs adopting ... and an alternative source needs to be in place for those users ... I've finally got a caching setup working, but it's still not ideal. I'm still missing something on getting a clean rendering stack that can also allow additional rendering options to be developed. -- Lester Caine - G8HFL - Contact - http://lsces.co.uk/wiki/?page=contact L.S.Caine Electronic Services - http://lsces.co.uk EnquirySolve - http://enquirysolve.com/ Model Engineers Digital Workshop - http://medw.co.uk Rainbow Digital Media - http://rainbowdigitalmedia.co.uk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] The Proposed Great Colour Shift
W dniu 22.08.2015 12:14, Richard Mann napisał(a): Purple motorways would be a problem in the Severn Estuary: http://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=11/51.5850/-2.6402 [3] Sure, but we have more space for changing the boundaries - for example use more dashed lines or make them thinner on lower zoom levels. Here you can see the same place with a border styling which would be different enough: http://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=13/51.5964/-2.6682 -- The train is always on time / The trick is to be ready to put your bags down [A. Cohen] ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] The Proposed Great Colour Shift
On 22/08/15 11:10, Daniel Koć wrote: I'd be tempted to leave motorways as blue - it's not such a critical problem as the invisible green trunk roads. Adding one For me the problem is the same - blue looks like a river and I don't know why at least some of UK-ers likes to see the London area roads like this (I mean: having to spot two most important road types!): http://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=9/51.3289/-0.0673 Its not that UK style doesn't work for the rest of the world, it also doesn't work for UK on OSM, because we have much more data visible than other maps. The switch to more pastel colours WAS the problem here, but the blue of the motorway still stands out clearly against the water courses. The only current problem is actually the B roads being lost against the 'farmland' but that is simple to fix - just switch off 'farmland' since the vast majority of areas not identified are farmland anyway. The loss of visibility of these in preference to the miss coloured yellow unclassified roads is the current problem on UK views. That's not against this or any other local styling - I never underestimate the power of old habits and I'd like the people to have what they want on the output, no matter why they want it, but it's just not going to happen as long as default style has a mission to be universal. That more styles are required is a simple fact. The problem is allowing access to an appropriate style rather than the current single option provided by the main page. We need to be able to select style AND language defaults in much the same way that projects like php provide multiple mirrors with local translations and information. -- Lester Caine - G8HFL - Contact - http://lsces.co.uk/wiki/?page=contact L.S.Caine Electronic Services - http://lsces.co.uk EnquirySolve - http://enquirysolve.com/ Model Engineers Digital Workshop - http://medw.co.uk Rainbow Digital Media - http://rainbowdigitalmedia.co.uk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] The Proposed Great Colour Shift
W dniu 22.08.2015 12:23, Lester Caine napisał(a): The main problem here is that OSM is used by a large part of the UK web services, and any change needs to be managed in such a manor that those services are not too badly affected. We do not have a list of every site actually using OSM over google, and the vast majority of users will not be following this list, so some other notification process needs adopting ... and an alternative source needs to be in place for those users ... If we take a look from 10,000 feet, this is just a specific manifestation of a more general problem: up to this moment OSM is developing mostly by adding elements (more users, more data, more tags, more visual features, wider ecosystem etc.) and has no procedures for dealing with more systematic changes. It's the same when debating any tagging shift or introducing new tagging scheme - there are no established channels of communication with the whole ecosystem, nor even inside the project! In my opinion this lack of tools for managing any bigger changes (which in turn might be also lack of leadership, I guess) is the main factor behind the project being so constricted: it travels very fast, but only in one direction, because any try of steering shows so many hidden strings attached, that it causes a lot of friction and looks like mission impossible. -- The train is always on time / The trick is to be ready to put your bags down [A. Cohen] ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] The Proposed Great Colour Shift
W dniu 22.08.2015 12:34, Lester Caine napisał(a): the motorway still stands out clearly against the water courses. The So we just disagree here: for me it's just barely spottable, which is far from clear difference, as you see it. That more styles are required is a simple fact. The problem is allowing access to an appropriate style rather than the current single option provided by the main page. We need to be able to select style AND language defaults in much the same way that projects like php provide multiple mirrors with local translations and information. I guess this might be primary a problem of limited resources. Could anybody with technical background in the inner OSM workings tell us what is holding us back with introducing new styles (be it raster styles, additional/interactive layers or even vector tiles)? -- The train is always on time / The trick is to be ready to put your bags down [A. Cohen] ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[Talk-it] Nuova versione stabile JOSM (8677)
Ciao, volevo informare gli utilizzatori di JOSM che è uscita una nuova versione stabile. I due più grandi cambiamenti sono il supporto completo a WTMS (Web Map Tile Service) e l'aggiunta del plugin OpenGL nella visualizzazione dei dati. Ovviamente ci sono ulteriori miglioramenti ai preset e al validatore. Il changelog completo qui: https://josm.openstreetmap.de/wiki/Changelog Ciao! Leonardo ___ Talk-it mailing list Talk-it@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-it
Re: [OSM-talk-fr] Rencontre parisienne OSM
I'm in. Le 21 août 2015 19:23, Donat ROBAUX dona...@gmail.com a écrit : Bonjour à tous, Si vous êtes parisien, francilen ou que vous êtes de passage sur la capitale, nous vous proposons de nous rencontrer mardi 25 août 2015 à partir de 19h et ca se passe là (Restaurant Chez Papa) http://www.openstreetmap.org/node/2695378308 Donat ___ Talk-fr mailing list Talk-fr@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-fr -- *Florian Lainez* @overflorian http://twitter.com/overflorian ___ Talk-fr mailing list Talk-fr@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-fr
Re: [OSM-talk] The Proposed Great Colour Shift
On the topic of whether we can or should notify everyone who may potentially be affected by this change so their opinions can be registered, you may enjoy this read: http://www.ftrain.com/wwic.html On Sat, Aug 22, 2015 at 8:12 AM, Tobias Knerr o...@tobias-knerr.de wrote: On 20.08.2015 10:09, Christoph Hormann wrote If you think a different styling than what is currently proposed would be better it would be best to show it. It's hardly fair to expect critics of the suggested new style to easily come up with alternatives. For one, the effort in question was enabled by sponsorship by Google, and took place over several months. This is not easily duplicated by those favouring other ideas. But more importantly, it discounts all those voices who favour the status quo. Personally, I think that the problems with the current style are relatively minor, and don't automatically justify a drastic change. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[Talk-GB] 10th Anniversary Rutland Mapping Party?
I'm just back from my annual trip to the Rutland Bird Fair. Each time I'm struck by the fact that Rutland still needs a lot of ground survey work for OSM. Oakham for instance has a prodigious number of new houses, the PRoW network is pretty incomplete, and there are lots of other details missing in villages. Next year will be 10 years since the big Rutland Mapping Party http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/WikiProject_Rutland_England/2006_Rutland_Mapping_Party. Might it be fun to reprise it and make Rutland best mapped countryside in UK? Obviously another alternative would be reprise the Isle of Wight Workshop http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Isle_of_Wight_workshop_2006. Jerry ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [OSM-talk] The Proposed Great Colour Shift
On 2015년 08월 22일 19:23, Lester Caine wrote: The main problem here is that OSM is used by a large part of the UK web services, and any change needs to be managed in such a manor that those services are not too badly affected. We do not have a list of every site actually using OSM over google, and the vast majority of users will not be following this list, so some other notification process needs adopting ... and an alternative source needs to be in place for those users ... Why not keeping the UK style under openstreetmap.co.uk just like you will find the german style under openstreetmap.de ? ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] The Proposed Great Colour Shift
On 20.08.2015 10:09, Christoph Hormann wrote If you think a different styling than what is currently proposed would be better it would be best to show it. It's hardly fair to expect critics of the suggested new style to easily come up with alternatives. For one, the effort in question was enabled by sponsorship by Google, and took place over several months. This is not easily duplicated by those favouring other ideas. But more importantly, it discounts all those voices who favour the status quo. Personally, I think that the problems with the current style are relatively minor, and don't automatically justify a drastic change. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] The Proposed Great Colour Shift
On Sat, 2015-08-22 at 21:39 +0900, Max wrote: On 2015년 08월 22일 19:23, Lester Caine wrote: The main problem here is that OSM is used by a large part of the UK web services, and any change needs to be managed in such a manor that those services are not too badly affected. We do not have a list of every site actually using OSM over google, and the vast majority of users will not be following this list, so some other notification process needs adopting ... and an alternative source needs to be in place for those users ... Why not keeping the UK style under openstreetmap.co.uk just like you will find the german style under openstreetmap.de ? It should be openstreetmap.org.uk. We are not a commercial organisation. Phil (trigpoint) ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [Talk-GB] 10th Anniversary Rutland Mapping Party?
On Sat, 2015-08-22 at 13:23 +0100, SK53 wrote: I'm just back from my annual trip to the Rutland Bird Fair. Each time I'm struck by the fact that Rutland still needs a lot of ground survey work for OSM. Oakham for instance has a prodigious number of new houses, the PRoW network is pretty incomplete, and there are lots of other details missing in villages. Next year will be 10 years since the big Rutland Mapping Party. Might it be fun to reprise it and make Rutland best mapped countryside in UK? Obviously another alternative would be reprise the Isle of Wight Workshop. I'm up for either, travel costs to Rutland are obviously lower for most people. Isle of Wight ferries are quite costly. Phil (trigpoint) ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
[Talk-it] Avvertimento nuova proiezione EPSG su JOSM per ortofoto PCN2006-2012
Ciao, oggi provando la nuova versione stabile di JOSM, quando attivo il layer delle ortofoto PCN2006 o 2012, Josm mi avvisa con il seguente messaggio: Il livello PCN 2012 - Italia non supporta la nuova proiezione EPSG:3857. Le proiezioni supportate sono EPSG:4326. JOSM userà EPSG:4326 per interrogare il server, ma il risultato può varare in base al server WMS. Cambia nuovamente la proiezione o cancella il livello. Detto questo se premo OK il livello si carica normalmente senza alcun errore come prima. Qualcuno che ha conoscenze maggiori sull'argomento proiezioni mi può illuminare? È necessario cambiare qualche parametro sull'URL di richiesta delle tile? Dobbiamo farlo presente agli sviluppatori JOSM? Maggiori info: https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/EPSG:3857 e https://gis.stackexchange.com/questions/48949/epsg-3857-or-4326-for-googlemaps-openstreetmap-and-leaflet Grazie! Leonardo ___ Talk-it mailing list Talk-it@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-it
Re: [OSM-talk] The Proposed Great Colour Shift
W dniu 22.08.2015 14:21, Tom MacWright napisał(a): On the topic of whether we can or should notify everyone who may potentially be affected by this change so their opinions can be registered, you may enjoy this read: http://www.ftrain.com/wwic.html [2] Awesome! It's just about what I would like to say (without using customer metaphor however =} but with communication idea instead): Create a service experience around what you publish and sell. Whatever “customer service” means when it comes to books and authors, figure it out and do it. Do it in partnership with your readers. Turn your readers into members. Not visitors, not subscribers; you want members. And then don't just consult them, but give them tools to consult amongst themselves. We need communications channels for individuals/institutions/services using OSM data or other services (especially maps) - and also inside the project, because we are so distributed, that for example even Wiki is rather a service for rendering team than a common working space, because rendering does not try to change it, but rather consumes the definitions for its own purposes. -- The train is always on time / The trick is to be ready to put your bags down [A. Cohen] ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[Talk-us] Installing JOSM on Windows 10, no icons appear
I installed JAVA ok. I installed JOSM using the - josm-setup.exe https://josm.openstreetmap.de/download/windows/josm-setup.exe Installer for Windows I checked both options to install desktop icon and to add to start menu The icons d o not appear. I have to start JOSM from the run command. Does anyone know how to get icons to appear on task bar, start menu, desktop or app folder? Alan 51 Hancock St Bedford MA 10730 339-545-1737 mobile ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [OSM-talk] The Proposed Great Colour Shift
On 22/08/15 15:08, Philip Barnes wrote: Why not keeping the UK style under openstreetmap.co.uk just like you will find the german style under openstreetmap.de ? It should be openstreetmap.org.uk. We are not a commercial organisation. .co.uk is registered, so the .uk one can be used going forward But this is possibly not the best way of making a scale able system. It would be better to have a single main domain which then forwards to an appropriate service? -- Lester Caine - G8HFL - Contact - http://lsces.co.uk/wiki/?page=contact L.S.Caine Electronic Services - http://lsces.co.uk EnquirySolve - http://enquirysolve.com/ Model Engineers Digital Workshop - http://medw.co.uk Rainbow Digital Media - http://rainbowdigitalmedia.co.uk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] The Proposed Great Colour Shift
Hi, On 08/22/2015 02:12 PM, Tobias Knerr wrote: But more importantly, it discounts all those voices who favour the status quo. Personally, I think that the problems with the current style are relatively minor, and don't automatically justify a drastic change. But then again, the problems with the new style are also relatively minor, and don't automatically justify derailing the process ;) Bye Frederik -- Frederik Ramm ## eMail frede...@remote.org ## N49°00'09 E008°23'33 ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] New styles for OSM.org [was: Re: The Proposed Great Colour Shift]
W dniu 23.08.2015 0:51, Paul Norman napisał(a): On 8/22/2015 4:20 AM, Daniel Koć wrote: Could anybody with technical background in the inner OSM workings tell us what is holding us back with introducing new styles (be it raster styles, additional/interactive layers or even vector tiles)? Only a lack of people willing to do the work. I would like to know more specific - is there a place I could get more information on the styles we already show? Like where are they hosted (by whom), is there a way to get involved and the things like that. Most of this can be found here: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Featured_tiles but not whether the servers are internal or external and I don't know if these informations are current. I believe default osm-carto is hosted on OSM servers? For me it's important for OSM community to have control over the style, so just adding some nice tiles from the outer space will not resolve our problems. That's why I've asked about possible lack of technical resources - if we have enough horsepower on our servers to run the whole second style it would be great, but I guess you meant just plugging external tiles, which could be nice, but only to some extent. Am I right? For new layers which are overlays or in-client vector tile rendered, there would also probably be a pull request needed to add the necessary code. cquest (of French style) just let me know that he is experimenting with vector tiles: https://github.com/gravitystorm/openstreetmap-carto/issues/1402#issuecomment-132209396 So another layman question arises: given that he (or anybody else for that matter!) succeed with serving such tiles AND is willing to fulfill our criteria - would it mean just some code is needed and we have the way to handle (practically) unlimited styles, or it is not that easy as I wish? =} -- The train is always on time / The trick is to be ready to put your bags down [A. Cohen] ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[Talk-at] Einladung zum August-Stammtisch in Graz 2015-08-24
Liebe OpenStreetMap-Interessierte in der Steiermark, wir laden herzlich ein zum nächsten OpenStreetMap-Stammtisch Graz am Montag, 24.8. - wieder zum regulären Termin am 4. Montag im Monat. Der Stammtisch findet um 18:00 im Brot Spiele City in Graz statt, die Tischreservierung lautet auf OpenStreetMap und befindet sich diesmal ausnahmsweise im Bereich Cafe, der ebenfalls ein Nichtraucherbereich ist. Zwecks Agenda und sonstigem bitte die Wiki-Seite zu konsultieren: https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Graz/Stammtisch Liebe Grüße, Stefan ___ Talk-at mailing list Talk-at@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-at
Re: [OSM-talk] stop deleting abandoned railroads
On 22/08/2015, John Eldredge j...@jfeldredge.com wrote: So, if you are looking for a route without steep grades, a former railway is a natural choice. Do people actually do this ? It sounds like a strawman argument to me. I do a fair bit of walking and cycling, and when planing a trip I look at the global topographic data but it never occured to me to look for railroads. Why use the local railroad hint when you've got the global DEM data ? ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] The Proposed Great Colour Shift
On 22/08/15 19:24, Eugene Alvin Villar wrote: On Sat, Aug 22, 2015 at 6:23 PM, Lester Caine les...@lsces.co.uk mailto:les...@lsces.co.uk wrote: The main problem here is that OSM is used by a large part of the UK web services [...] I agree that this is a problem. But not for the reasons you may think. The OSM default tileset is *not* meant to be used as a general-purpose tileset by third parties. There are no service-level guarantees and styles may change without notice to them. There is *absoutely* no obligation on the OSM community to notify third party users of our tilesets of any changes. In fact, third parties who consume too much tile bandwidth are encouraged to source tiles from other services like MapQuest or Mapbox, or roll out their own tile service. http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tile_usage_policy We have had this discussion before ... If the share link is not intended to provide links for embedded maps and include a link back to the main map then it should be removed? This is intended as advertising and using it as an alternative to google SHOULD be encouraged. But if promoting OSM is against the rules then so be it ... but advertising some other commercial service is equally wrong. As for simply dumping a complete rework of the style without any warning ... that is perhaps why I am looking to retain the current style via my own service. At least a few 'dictatorships' are learning that one needs to ease existing users from one style of working to another and allow the user the choice. In a few places I still get hassled to use 'the new interface', but there is nothing wrong with the old one and it works for me. AT least when the front page style changed there was an alternative, and I think that is how any major change should be handled. If it falls flat on it's face one can at least roll back rather than having no such security. -- Lester Caine - G8HFL - Contact - http://lsces.co.uk/wiki/?page=contact L.S.Caine Electronic Services - http://lsces.co.uk EnquirySolve - http://enquirysolve.com/ Model Engineers Digital Workshop - http://medw.co.uk Rainbow Digital Media - http://rainbowdigitalmedia.co.uk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] stop deleting abandoned railroads
Not precisely flat, but with very shallow grades, by definition. Regular railroad engines (as opposed to cog railway engines) can't climb steep slopes. So, if you are looking for a route without steep grades, a former railway is a natural choice. -- John F. Eldredge -- j...@jfeldredge.com Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. -- Martin Luther King, Jr. On August 18, 2015 8:28:47 AM Frederik Ramm frede...@remote.org wrote: Hi, On 08/18/2015 03:21 PM, Richard wrote: Especially as many railways come with more or less dense key:ele tagging they are much more reliable to derive height profile information than any other data we have. Do I understand you correctly: We should map abandoned railways because we lack a good source of elevation data? That sounds like a very strange proposal to me. Perhaps the wiki documenting the abandoned value should be amended by not to be used for abandoned mountain railways, because cycle routers will prefer routing along abandoned railway lines under the assumption that they must be flat? Bye Frederik -- Frederik Ramm ## eMail frede...@remote.org ## N49°00'09 E008°23'33 ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] The Proposed Great Colour Shift
On 8/22/2015 4:20 AM, Daniel Koć wrote: Could anybody with technical background in the inner OSM workings tell us what is holding us back with introducing new styles (be it raster styles, additional/interactive layers or even vector tiles)? Only a lack of people willing to do the work. Multiple people have started their own styles based on OpenStreetMap Carto. Both the French style and the new German style started this way. I believe both the cycle map and transport map on osm.org are using vector tile infrastructure now. OpenSeaMap provides a rendered overlay. If you're asking about on osm.org, I believe there's just been a lack of interest. To be added a layer would need to support the criteria on http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Strategic_working_group/New_Tile_Layer_Guidelines. I believe the last request was the HOT layer, which got added. If another tile host wanted to write a proposal to add their tiles, I'd be willing to talk to them about helping. I still have all the HOT stuff, so wouldn't need to redo that. For new layers which are overlays or in-client vector tile rendered, there would also probably be a pull request needed to add the necessary code. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] The Proposed Great Colour Shift
Hi, On 08/23/2015 12:51 AM, Paul Norman wrote: Could anybody with technical background in the inner OSM workings tell us what is holding us back with introducing new styles (be it raster styles, additional/interactive layers or even vector tiles)? Only a lack of people willing to do the work. A lack of people willing to do the work *and* host the style. We'll happily include them if they meet the criteria you mention, but we're not currently set up to serve multiple styles ourselves. We might be able to switch to vector tiles somewhere down the line, allowing us to serve more styles easily, but that requires a lot of people willing to do a lot of work ;) Bye Frederik -- Frederik Ramm ## eMail frede...@remote.org ## N49°00'09 E008°23'33 ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [Talk-it] Avvertimento nuova proiezione EPSG su JOSM per ortofoto PCN2006-2012
2015-08-22 15:09 GMT+02:00 Leonardo kinetocor...@gmail.com: oggi provando la nuova versione stabile di JOSM, quando attivo il layer delle ortofoto PCN2006 o 2012, Josm mi avvisa con il seguente messaggio: Il livello PCN 2012 - Italia non supporta la nuova proiezione EPSG:3857. Le proiezioni supportate sono EPSG:4326. JOSM userà EPSG:4326 per interrogare il server, ma il risultato può varare in base al server WMS. Cambia nuovamente la proiezione o cancella il livello. Detto questo se premo OK il livello si carica normalmente senza alcun errore come prima. Qualcuno che ha conoscenze maggiori sull'argomento proiezioni mi può illuminare? È necessario cambiare qualche parametro sull'URL di richiesta delle tile? Dobbiamo farlo presente agli sviluppatori JOSM? Ho fatto anche io la stessa prova: in effetti i layer PCN pare non siano predisposti per la proiezione WGS84 usata per il web (EPSG:3857), ma cliccando su ok JOSM esegue l'interrogazione al server in EPSG:4326 e converte automaticamente in EPSG:3857, infatti i tile sono comunque perfettamente allineati alle geometrie. Penso che sia quello che succedeva già in passato, ma che sia stato aggiunto quel warning results may vary depending on the WMS server, anche se nel nostro caso col server WMS del Portale Cartografico Nazionale pare non ci sia alcun tipo di problema. Comunque se c'è qualcuno esperto in materia di funzionamento di server WMS magari può fare qualche analisi più approfondita. In alternativa se prima di caricare il layer PCN si modificano in JOSM le impostazioni delle proiezioni (Edit--Preferences--Map Projection) selezionando WGS84 Geographic (appunto la EPSG:4326, ossia il classico WGS84) l'errore di cui sopra chiaramente non viene più segnalato e si può lavorare tranquillamente. Per quel che mi riguarda mi sembra però molto più leggibile l'altra proiezione. Ciao Federico ___ Talk-it mailing list Talk-it@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-it
Re: [OSM-talk] Abandoned Rails
Hi, On 08/22/2015 11:07 PM, Lester Caine wrote: What we need is a database that already has all the data and simply identify when some small elements of it cease to be current. In OSM we do that by deleting the small elements ;) Bye Frederik -- Frederik Ramm ## eMail frede...@remote.org ## N49°00'09 E008°23'33 ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Abandoned Rails
On 22/08/15 21:32, Tim Waters wrote: I'd like to recommend OpenHistoricalMap.org (OHM) which will welcome all types of historical, disused and abandoned features. Please, go add every abandoned railway to OHM, and then together we can eventually get an accurate map of 1880s railway network compared to a 1940's, compared to yesterdays world! BUT OHM has avoided importing all of the existing material. Manually adding all that again is a pointless exercise. What we need is a database that already has all the data and simply identify when some small elements of it cease to be current. -- Lester Caine - G8HFL - Contact - http://lsces.co.uk/wiki/?page=contact L.S.Caine Electronic Services - http://lsces.co.uk EnquirySolve - http://enquirysolve.com/ Model Engineers Digital Workshop - http://medw.co.uk Rainbow Digital Media - http://rainbowdigitalmedia.co.uk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] stop deleting abandoned railroads
On Sun, 23 Aug 2015 00:09:43 +0100 moltonel 3x Combo molto...@gmail.com wrote: On 22/08/2015, John Eldredge j...@jfeldredge.com wrote: So, if you are looking for a route without steep grades, a former railway is a natural choice. Do people actually do this ? It sounds like a strawman argument to me. I do a fair bit of walking and cycling, and when planing a trip I look at the global topographic data but it never occured to me to look for railroads. Why use the local railroad hint when you've got the global DEM data ? How fine is the granularity of the DEM data? The DEM data I've found is about 5km. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Abandoned Rails
I'd like to recommend OpenHistoricalMap.org (OHM) which will welcome all types of historical, disused and abandoned features. Please, go add every abandoned railway to OHM, and then together we can eventually get an accurate map of 1880s railway network compared to a 1940's, compared to yesterdays world! Tim On 22/08/2015, Jason Remillard remillard.ja...@gmail.com wrote: Hi I'd therefor like to propose that abandoned railways be treated like borders. Even if you can't see it along a given stretch there are people who can and they have put a huge amount of effort into that work. Lets respect that and strengthen the community rather than deleting it and doing the opposite. I 100% agree. The amount of data required to map abandoned railroads is tiny. An occasional way through a new development is not going to hurt anybody or impair normal mapping activity. Apparently, the people that like to map railroads think OSM is the best place to do this. We are not in any position to be chasing them off. OSM has a long, long way to go still. Above all else, it needs to more active mappers if we are serious about being the best map for the entire world. Also, It seems likely they are also mapping non controversial things like roads while working on the railroads. Dave F, OSM is doing just fine. It is full of contradictions, redundancies, disagreements, and broken rules (see the tagging list). It is not some kind of business database that requires normalization, strict schema definitions, and vigilant protection. It can't have any once sentence rules defining its boundaries. It is a great big blank sheet of paper, relax and let the railroad people draw on it a bit. Nobody is going to get hurt. Jason ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk-be] Mapper of the month!
Hello Belgian mappers, Here you can find the interview with the mapper of the month of august: Matthieu Gaillet! French: http://osm.be/fr/content/contributeur-du-mois-matthieu-gaillet Dutch: http://osm.be/nl/content/mapper-van-de-maand-matthieu-gaillet English: http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/escada/diary/35563 Best greetings, Jorieke ___ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be
[OSM-talk-fr] Nettoyer une imprécision propre au cadastre
Pour comprendre l’origine du problème, il faut savoir comment les noms de voie sont répertoriés par les 2 niveaux compétents : - les communes qui les créent, les utilisent pour leurs besoins et transmettent leurs décision à l'État - les services de l’État (DGFiP-Cadaste) qui les cartographient pour savoir à qui faire payer les impôts Ceux-ci seraient contents si tous les noms de voie incluaient rue, roue, avenue, allée, etc. Mais, ce n’est pas le cas dans un nombre réduit, mais, non négligeable d’odonymes. Ainsi, en Bretagne occidentale, de nombreuses communes utilisent les versions en breton de rue (straed ou quelquefois street), route (hent), alez (allée) ou sentier (gwenojenn et variantes). On trouvera des équivalents dans d’autres endroits en France. Ex. : Alez an Eostiged (Allée des Rossignols), par référence au groupe de danse bretonne le plus titré, les « Eostiged ar Stangala » (je fréquente la forêt du Stangala, mais, y trouve-t’on encore beaucoup de rossignols ?). Au niveau local, cela ne pose pas trop de problèmes, les habitants finissant par connaître les correspondances. Pour les agents du cadastre, cela est incompréhensible, c’est pourquoi on voit souvent « voie communale Alez X », tout simplement pour ne pas les confondre avec les noms de lieu. Cet ajout (qui peut venir aussi de la commune) crée beaucoup de tâches rouges sur le serveur Bano et oblige à mettre la référence FANTOIR. Serait-il problématique de retirer « voie communale » d’office, mais à condition de tenir compte du cas où le nom est légitime, au moins jusqu’à enquête sur le terrain? En effet, des routes intercommunales on, parfois, comme nom cadastral « voie communale n de x à y ». La présence du numéro et des noms de communes servirait de discriminant. Christian R. ___ Talk-fr mailing list Talk-fr@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-fr
Re: [OSM-talk] The Proposed Great Colour Shift
On Sat, Aug 22, 2015 at 6:23 PM, Lester Caine les...@lsces.co.uk wrote: The main problem here is that OSM is used by a large part of the UK web services [...] I agree that this is a problem. But not for the reasons you may think. The OSM default tileset is *not* meant to be used as a general-purpose tileset by third parties. There are no service-level guarantees and styles may change without notice to them. There is *absoutely* no obligation on the OSM community to notify third party users of our tilesets of any changes. In fact, third parties who consume too much tile bandwidth are encouraged to source tiles from other services like MapQuest or Mapbox, or roll out their own tile service. http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tile_usage_policy ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[Talk-us] Tagging National Forests
There is copious documentation on the USFS's definitions regarding LULC, including crosswalks to the various international definitions intended to support global statistics. The USFS's own definition of forest is fairly low bar (10%) and they manage not just for traditional forest production, but to 'best possible public use' (recreations, conservation, agriculture, etc.). Some entire USFS are entirely grasslands and other would be regarded as completely urban. Ditto with Europe. Definitions of land categories by agency Forest *USFS*: The USFS defines forest as land at least 120 feet wide and 1 acre in size with at least 10 percent cover (or equivalent stocking) by live trees of any size, including land that formerly had such tree cover and that will be naturally or artificially regenerated. Forestland includes transition zones, such as areas between forest and nonforest lands that have at least 10 percent cover (or equivalent stocking) with live trees and forest areas adjacent to urban and built-up lands. Roadside, streamside, and shelterbelt strips of trees must have a crown width of at least 120 feet and continuous length of at least 363 feet to qualify as forest land. Unimproved roads and trails, streams, and clearings in forest areas are classified as forest if they are less than 120 feet wide or an acre in size. Tree-covered areas in agricultural production settings, such as fruit orchards, or tree-covered areas in urban settings, such as city parks, are not considered forest land. *BLM*: BLM defines forest as lands where the potential natural community contains 10 percent or more tree canopy cover. BLM defines woodlands as a forest in which the trees are often small, characteristically short-boled relative to their crown depth, and forming only an open canopy with the intervening areas being occupied by lower vegetation, commonly grass. ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] Tagging National Forests
On 08/19/2015 05:29 AM, Nathan Mixter wrote: In any discussions about land use and land cover, we should look at what organizations have done and how they have mapped ares. For instance, in USGS imagery in JOSM you can see how they render borders with just a dashed line and let the land cover have various shades of color on top of it. The U.S. Forest Service has a distinct classification for mapping vegetation within the forest. And the USDA differentiates between use of forest land and forest cover (http://www.ers.usda.gov/data-products/major-land-uses/glossary.aspx). Here is how the USGS defines land use and land cover (http://www.mrlc.gov/nlcd92_leg.php and in more depth at http://landcover.usgs.gov/pdf/anderson.pdf). Not sure how other countries map land use and land cover, but this is a sample from what the U.S. does. From http://www.ers.usda.gov/about-ers/strengthening-statistics-through-the-interagency-council-on-agricultural-rural-statistics/land-use-and-land-cover-estimates-for-the-united-states.aspx#h Land use and land cover are often related, but they have different meanings. Land use involves an element of human activity and reflects human decisions about how land will be used. Land cover refers to the vegetative characteristics or manmade constructions on the land’s surface. I hear a lot of argument here, and much of it is philosophizing. Let me offer another argument. Deficiencies in the standard rendering are leading us to impose constraints that do not exist. The very idea that we should have to cut out watercourses and highways from a National Forest to show it correctly on a map is absurd. If the renderer cannot cope with the idea that the Elm Ridge Wild Forest (a protected area - and specifically an area of state ownership with public access for recreation and harvesting of fish and game) lies partly within and partly outside the Catskill Park (a different sort of protected area, not all under state ownership) and in turn has several bicycle corridors (an area of less protection) overlaid upon it, then it cannot cope with the messy reality that I work with locally. Since I render my own maps, let me begin by observing: THE LACK OF CONSENSUS ON THESE ISSUES MEANS THAT I DO NOT USE OSM AS A DATA SOURCE FOR PROTECTED AREA BOUNDARIES. I go to alternative, mostly government, data sources for the boundaries of government and other protected lands and use them for map production. I simply cannot cope with wholesale retagging of these areas every few months as each new tagging scheme comes through. WE NEED TO REACH SOME SORT OF STABLE CONSENSUS, at least one that lets us produce medium-scale maps suitable for general use without running on a hamster wheel of patching renderers to adapt to changing tag schemes. I've half come around to the position that National Forest boundaries don't belong in our database at all. They're often not any more observable on the ground than any other property lines - and I believe that we reached a consensus that delineating land ownership is outside the scope of OSM. (Am I wrong about this?) In fact, the reason that I'm able to ignore OSM on the point is that most of the data I need is available in authoritative form from the agencies that manage the land. Unfortunately, some of the smaller agencies (mostly county and municipal agencies) still haven't moved forward into using GIS, or simply don't have the resources to make what GIS data they have available to the public, so there's still some amount of measuring on paper maps. I'd done a few local nature preserves that way (along with cross checking by hiking to corners and collecting GPS waypoints), and it had been convenient to use OSM as a store for the data so collected, but I'm willing to give that up and go back to holding the data privately and rendering them as another layer - doing an export from OSM to my own data store. Again, the features are hard to observe in the field. It's quite an interesting hunting expedition, trying to find the corners of a county nature preserve where the adjoining landowner doesn't trouble to post the land. Sometimes it involves trying to locate survey pins with a metal detector in dense forest. Since we don't have a good general policy for OSM maintenance of data where the authoritative copy is elsewhere, OSM really simply becomes the convenience of one stop shopping. I enjoy having that convenience, and so do many other users. But for some of the data, it simply costs too much time and effort to negotiate the minefield of tag wars. And I still claim it's largely because of the renderer. So now let me move forward to specific rendering suggestions - noting that that I'm here as a field mapper (I mostly do hiking trails and associated facilities, and for the most part don't armchair-map anything), a consumer of OSM data (I produce my own maps for my GPS-equipped smartphone, because I find them
