from:"Gerard Vanderveken"

Re: [OSM-talk-be] Mappen van paalcampings

2020-01-03 Thread Gerard Vanderveken

I think it is mapped OK and in line with the examples [1] in
Meerdaalwoud. 

It exists, so it has its place on the map. 

Greetz, 

Gerard

Karel Adams schreef op 2019-12-29 15:37:

> Na enige aarzeling heb ik, proberenderwijs, de paalcamping Arkadia in Muizen 
> toegevoegd. Zie 
> https://www.openstreetmap.org/node/7093111580#map=19/51.00354/4.54221
> 
> Het zou me helemaal niet verbazen als de initiaftiefnemers daarmee 
> allesbehalve gelukikig waren, ik heb dan ook geschreven om een en ander toe 
> te lichten, en om goedkeuring te vragen. Want dit soort initiatieven houdt 
> graag een laag profiel, het allerlaatste dat men daar wil is dat er iemand 
> met een 4x4-superdeluxekampeerbus komt binnengetuft. En dat houd ik best voor 
> mogelijk, allicht zal er wel iemand campinggidsen opmaken op basis van 
> overpassqueries.
> 
> Misschien toch beter maar terug verwijderen? Of welke tags zouden er kunnen 
> toegevoegd worden om het eigen karakter van zo'n paalcamping duidelijk over 
> te brengen? Iets van "access=???" of "regulations=strict"?
> 
> Over het concept van paalcampings kan men meer lezen op o.a. 
> http://www.bivakzone.be/
> 
> Karel
> 
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Links:
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[1] https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/222137187___
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[OSM-talk-be] JOSM shared boundary of area

2019-03-06 Thread Gerard Vanderveken


Hi,

I'm a bit in trouble with shared boundaries of area. I try to sketch the 
situation.
I have a square area and create a rectangle nearby with the same width 
and half the height, starting at the bottom right, drawing a line to the 
right, up to half the height, back to the left half way the side of the 
square and then down to the starting point. The third point is linked to 
the square side by tools - join node to way. This creates a double line 
in the boundary and you get a warning when saving.


Obvious, this is not the right way to do it:
- What should be the right procedure?
- When you have the above situation, what is the easiest way to correct 
it? There is a function to merge 2 points to 1, but is there also one to 
merge 2 identical lines?


Regards,
Gerard


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Re: [OSM-talk-be] Note tells OSM fails

2018-09-05 Thread Gerard Vanderveken

It's the Metro and the MIVB/STIB uses Crainhem as official name in
translation for Kraainem.
It is located in Brussels, so name rules of Kraainem (NL first), which
is in the Flemish Region don't apply.

Regards,
Gerard

Marc Gemis wrote:

What about the railway station
https://www.openstreetmap.org/node/250310431 ? Still uses Crainhem. Is
that the official name used by NMBS ?
On Wed, Sep 5, 2018 at 9:40 AM Lionel Giard wrote:

The official french name is "Kraainem" too, while Crainhem is an alternate spelling for french (but
i had never seen it before). Maybe we should change the tag and put it like that "name:fr=Kraainem"
and "alt_name:fr= Crainhem" ?

Le mar. 4 sept. 2018 à 20:43, Marc Gemis a écrit :

I replied with the same names as person used in the original note.
Kraainem is named Kraainem in the name and name:nl fields.

It is possible that Nominatim returns the name:fr field in case you
have your browser configured to prefer French above Dutch.

m.
On Tue, Sep 4, 2018 at 7:21 PM Karel Adams wrote:

In the margin and without wishing to enter politics, allow me to insist
we should name the village by its primary and original name "Kraainem".

On 04/09/18 09:39, Marc Gemis wrote:

Here is the answer I gave on the note:

As you can see on the map, the boundary between Woluwe-Saint-Pierre
and Crainhem runs slighty left of the Rue Longue.

Since the current implementation of Nominatim (the software that looks
up the addresses), always looks at the street and never at the POIs,
there is no way to solve this with data.

AFAIK, they are working on a solution for this, but there is no
timeframe for a solution

m.
On Tue, Sep 4, 2018 at 9:38 AM Jakka wrote:

Hi,

Who can answer and close this note.
Building is located in Woluwe-Saint-Pierre but access highway is in
Crainhem I think...
https://www.openstreetmap.org/note/1477650#map=19/50.84217/4.46717
https://nominatim.openstreetmap.org/details.php?place_id=84536059

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[OSM-talk-be] Ourthe = path?

2018-04-11 Thread Gerard Vanderveken


Goedendag,

Hier heeft er eentje bij de rivier Ourthe 
 
een highway=path toegevoegd.

Is zo een dubbel gebruik van waterway en highway tags korrekt?

Met vriendelijke groeten,
Gerard
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Re: [OSM-talk-be] intersection looks very wrong

2017-11-11 Thread Gerard Vanderveken

In Streetview it looks the same.
I see this of a typical case of willing to map too much.
By that I mean every turn (or shortcut) from one lane to all possible
others.

The crossing should look in its basic form like a #.
Is it needed to represent every lane as separate roads?
I don't think so.
Only when there is a real division in the form of a physical separation,
other then a simple white line, such as a sideway, traffic island,
arched surface, ..., additional trunks should be mapped.
For all other things tagging Lanes
and Turning indications
per lane

should be sufficient to map this crossing.

A lot of cleanup is needed here, starting with the 2 trunks 214506429
and 115952062

Regards,
Gerard.

Jakka wrote:

The middle intersection looks very wrong. Want to redesign it. There
for need to know if the aerial image on "Wallononmap" are still
corresponding with what is out there ? Or are there other images ?
The same with intersection north and south of it I need to connect
directly good on those also.

Check this in editor:
1)
https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=19/50.543085562147645/5.4872411965277195

Check a routeplanner
2)
https://www.mapcat.com/directions/car#map=18.9/50.54324/5.48770=50.54312,5.48745;50.54332,5.48772

check aerial image I want to work with. No Mapillary image yet.
3)
http://geoportail.wallonie.be/walonmap#SHARE=5DB543FAA0BC7C61E053D0AFA49DE388#CTX=DDB

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Re: [OSM-talk-be] How we deal with this kind of note

2017-10-04 Thread Gerard Vanderveken

On second view, on the left tree, seems to be a little C1 sign and on 
the right tree there seems some text on a panel behind the leaves.

I believe it is private, unless a visit at the place proves otherwise.

Regards,
Gerard.

mgwebm...@fastmail.fm wrote:

Strange. That’s the link that is provided by their app. Could you try 
again with this one or go to http://www.ngi.be/topomapviewer/ and then 
search for Feluy : the path is just nest to the pointer.


PS : I know it’s evil but still, have a look of the place on street 
view 
 :-) 
There is absolutely nothing stating that this way is private.


Matthieu

On 4 Oct 2017, at 13:55, Glenn Plas > wrote:


Hi,

This link gives a bad request response for me:

Bad Request

Your browser sent a request that this server could not understand.


FYI, the path is mapped by the NGI, with driving restriction. See this
link
>



Could you doublecheck this, I'm quite interested in this data.

Cheers,

Glenn





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Re: [OSM-talk-be] How we deal with this kind of note

2017-10-04 Thread Gerard Vanderveken


Private driveways are also mapped in the GIS of Vlaanderen.
They are part of the mapping of every soil hardening.
Don't know the case for Wallonia.

The road itself is not in the Atlas, so the claim that it is private 
seems just.
(the crossing path Sentier Miremont is in the Atlas and thus probably 
public.)


Regards,
Gerard

Jonathan Beliën wrote:


I would say to put that road (from the main road to the house) as 
`access=private` and reply to the note saying the road is now marked as private 
and even if it's displayed on the map, no one will use that road (including GPS 
using OpenStreetMap data).

Wish you a pleasant day !

Jonathan Beliën
GEO-6

-Message d'origine-
De : Jakka [mailto:vdmfrank...@gmail.com] 
Envoyé : mercredi 4 octobre 2017 11:10

À : talk-be@openstreetmap.org
Objet : [OSM-talk-be] How we deal with this kind of note

Hi,
http://www.openstreetmap.org/note/1161734#map=17/50.56332/4.24592=N
highway=service

"Ce chemin est un chemin privé, il n'a pas a être sur la carte."
door anoniem


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Re: [OSM-talk-be] E46 = E03 ?

2017-08-29 Thread Gerard Vanderveken


Maybe with the renumbering of the Hm signs, it is extended?
Else, ask the mapper, where he got his information, to check if it is a 
trustworthy source.
In the very beginning, there was an E3 and E5 highway, but they got 
renumbered.

I'm surprised, there is still a piece E3 existing.

Regards,
Gerard

Marc Gemis wrote:

Did you try to contact that mapper via a changeset comment? That is 
often the best way to get to know the why and what


m

Op 28 aug. 2017 21:02 schreef "Stijn Rombauts" 
>:


Hi,

While mapping in Marche-en-Famenne I noticed that the N63
(Liège-Marche), which is part of the E46 has also received the tag
int_ref = E03 a few months ago. It looks like the whole E46
(Cherbourg - Liège) has gotten the int_ref = E03 tag, while the
E03 should only be the road from Cherbourg to La Rochelle
(according to wikipedia), and that this has been done by a French
mapper [1]. Is there anyone in the Belgian community who knows why
the E46 should have the int_ref = E03 tag?

Regards,

StijnRR

[1]
http://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/48652454#map=8/49.886/1.950




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Re: [OSM-talk-be] Land-use mapping with OSM in Belgium

2017-04-25 Thread Gerard Vanderveken


Hi,

One remark for the wood-tag:
The tag natural=wood 
 is sometimes 
used for forests, but since natural=wood would refers to unmanaged, 
natural forests, IMHO it should not be used in Belgium since no more 
forests are completely natural: every patches of forest in Belgium has 
experienced human interventions in the recent history.

In several forests Zoniënwoud, Meerdaalwoud, ... are some nature reserves.
Places where nature can have its course and where only very minimal 
human intervention take place (eg clearance of paths)
I think these reserves (Joseph Zwaenepoel, Kerselaerplein, Everzwijnbad, 
Pruikemakers) could qualify as wood.


I think meadow is a good tag for the grass lands. Conversion between 
farmland and grass land takes somtetimes place but mosttimes as 
incidental crop harvest of grass.

Making a pasture requires also fencing, which is not a temporary measure.

So, when there is a grass land without fence surrounded by farmland, it 
is likely farmland.

Other grass lands are usually fenced and are meadow.
Local knowledge will tell if it is to be one or the other

Regards,
Gerard.

Julien Minet wrote:


Hi list,

Following some discussions about landuse=farmland|meadow some times 
ago in this list, I've written an article here 
(http://www.nobohan.be/2017/04/20/landuse-osm-belgium/) about land-use 
mapping in Belgium: what could be the best practices adapted to the 
Belgian landscape. Of course, there's matter for discussions about 
that topic ;-)


I think this text could be used to make a page on 
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/WikiProject_Belgium/Conventions/, 
since it discuss what are the local conventions for land-use mapping 
in Belgium.


Do you also want to put this text on osm.be , similarly 
to the Marc Gemis articles? Maybe a better place for discussions...


Cheers,

Julien



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Re: [OSM-talk-be] Multilingual names

2017-04-21 Thread Gerard Vanderveken

For the Zoniënwoud, it should be observed that it is located on several 
cities and regions.
Path naming should also follow the rules for the region or city where 
they are located.

- Brussels - Oudergem, Bosvoorde, Ukkel, Woluwe : bilingual Fr- Nl
- Wallonia - Waterloo, La Hulpe : Fr
- Flanders - Hoeilaart, Overijse, Tervuren : Nl
- Flanders - St-Genesius-Rode (facilities) : Nl - Fr

Regards,
Gerard.


Glenn Plas wrote:


Hey Marc,

 


https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/User_talk:Gplv2 on the discussion
tab. Didn't you get a mail for that ?
   



oh .. I see , that probably goes to my google mail address, a bit of a
trashbin-mail account with massive amounts of spam hiding real messages,
I only check that sporadically

 


As for the French-Dutch. I think I added a name once to a path in
Zonienwoud, in the other order. Can't find it right now. Perhaps
someone corrected my vandalism :-)
   



The tool I made would pick that up and flag it, I only corrected about
3% (99%-96%).  It just made sense to further unify the data that way and
match the wiki page, didn't give it much thought hence failed to raise
this issue to the list.

I believe it's better this way as the former rule seemed to be a
political motivated one, and that has no place in OSM.  We should
refrain from making those types of decisions.

Like you, I don't care french is first , dutch is second, as long as it
is done consistently.  It makes the map look good.

In that regard, I am desperately looking for a quality resource on
street names in BXL, and I need one that is written exactly how it
should be written.

I used a document that was very complete but I failed to understand the
spelling rules in french language (I was always taught that capitals
aren't accented but apparently there are notable exceptions, one of them
applies to streetnames).

I was educated on the subject by Yves (bxl-forever).  I stopped my edits
at once and still need to roll back some of those accent problems, but I
need a street list first, when I have one, I can incorporate it in the
tool, that would be an awesome feature to have.

Sorry for not being more forthcoming on this, I didn't expect this
impact on us.

That Q/A tool would help you find the problem if it exists, I downloaded
zonienwoud to an osm file but it seems that a packages I use (medoo) has
been broken since I last used it.  I have to fix the source code first.

Glenn



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Re: [OSM-talk-be] Multilingual names

2017-04-07 Thread Gerard Vanderveken


Ik lees ook :
These municipalities should have the official translated names under 
name:nl =*, name:fr 
=* and name:de 
=* (depending on which 
language facilities are offered), the name 
=* tag should contain only 
the official name in the primary language. For the moment, the 
municipalities bordering Brussels also follow the naming schema used in 
Brussels (with both languages in the name tag), while the other 
municipalities have a tendency to only include a single language in the 
name tag. Do not delete translated data by following this rule. If a 
good translation exists in a dutch municipality in french, do not remove 
it. We only care for correct data, as much as possible without being 
intrusive in any way.
Ook de dubbele standaard voor de taalfacileitgemeenten rond Brussel 
lijkt mij niet aangewezen.
Ofwel doe je voor iedere faciliteitsgemeente in de name tag alleen de 
officiele taal, ofwel beiden in volgorde van officiele - faciliteit.


Met vriendelijke groeten,
Gerard.

Ben Laenen wrote:


On Friday, 7 April 2017 11:28:32 CEST Marc Gemis wrote:
 


I just stumbled upon the wiki page
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Multilingual_names#Brussels
I was surprised to read e.g. "Note that the "first mapper rule" is
deprecated now." and "In OSM, we have a consensus to use a fixed
order" (both changes made by Gplv2 on Oct 19, 2016)

Not that I care about the order of French and Dutch on those
streetnames, but it would be nice to inform the community about such
an important change via the mailing list, not ? If this is indeed the
consensus I would have violated it since I did not know deprecation of
the first mapper rule.

I asked Gplv2 to point me to the discussion leading to the consensus.

So I have no problems with this being the consensus, I do have a
problem that such an important change is made without informing the
mailing list.
   



There was a small talk about it around that time in the thread "Some 
information about Nominatim for addresses in Brussels" on this mailing list.


But there was no real discussion to change it, and certainly no consensus.

Ben


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Re: [OSM-talk-be] Namen van kerken

2017-02-06 Thread Gerard Vanderveken


Joost,
Het gaat mij niet over al dan niet katholiek, maar over formele naamgeving.
En dat is voor mij alleen de naam zonder toevoeging van wat het is.
Anders moet ook:
Voetbalplein FC De Greunshotters
Cafe In de Rapte
Museum MAS
Stad Leuven
En dat hadden we afgesproken van niet te doen.

En ja, in de volksmond spreekt men meestal van Heilige Familiekerk.

Met vriendelijke groeten,
Gerard

PS
Bij NGI en Google staat geen naamsaanduiding.

joost schouppe wrote:

Gerard, ik ben niet bepaald katholiek, maar ik denk dat het woord kerk 
in de naam wel degelijk betekenis heeft. Ik stel mij voor dat ze hier 
systematisch het woord "kerk" gebruiken om aan te duiden dat het om 
een "parochiekerk" gaat, en dus duidelijk geen kapel of kathedraal.


Op 6 februari 2017 om 08:35 schreef Gerard Vanderveken <g...@ghia.eu 
<mailto:g...@ghia.eu>>:


Goedendag,

Iedereen gaat in zijn dorp naar "de kerk" en het gebouw staat
alsdusdanig bekend, maar dat is voor mij geen alt name.
Voor mij dient er helemaal geen kerk in de naam te staan. Gewoon
de patroonheilige is voldoende: dus Heilige Familie of Sint-Bavo.
Dat het een kerk is zie je aan het gebruikte symbool of de rest
van de data.

Met vriendelijke groeten ,
Gerard


Marc Gemis wrote:

Hallo,

Ik ben momenteel bezig met het toevoegen van wikidata aan
kerkgebouwen.
Omdat ik ook de wikidata items zelf creëeer raadpleeg ik Onroerend
Erfgoed en the ODIS databank.

Wat me nu opvalt is dat beiden als naam telkens "parochiekerk"
ervoor
zetten. Dus bv.

Parochiekerk Heilige Familie  [1][2]

ODIS geeft telkens alle mogelijke alternatieven waaronder de kerk
gekend is. In dit geval is dat ook

"Heilige Familiekerk"

slechts in enkele uitzonderlijke gevallen zal het alternatief
zonder
"kerk" opgelijst staan, terwijl in OSM we behoorlijk wat
kerken hebben
waar de "kerk" in de naam ontbreekt.

Nu is mijn vraag : hoe gaan we daarmee om ?
Ik ben geneigd om "Parochiekerk X" als "official_name" te
zetten, en
de variant met "kerk als "name". "alt_name" kan gebruikt
worden als er
echt een alternatief is (bv. Sint-Baafskerk voor Sint-Bavokerk).

Wat denken jullie ?

m




[1] http://www.odis.be/lnk/OB_317
[2] https://id.erfgoed.net/erfgoedobjecten/75566
<https://id.erfgoed.net/erfgoedobjecten/75566>

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--
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OpenStreetMap 
<http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/joost%20schouppe/> | Twitter 
<https://twitter.com/joostjakob> | LinkedIn 
<https://www.linkedin.com/pub/joost-schouppe/48/939/603> | Meetup 
<http://www.meetup.com/OpenStreetMap-Belgium/members/97979802/>




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Re: [OSM-talk-be] Namen van kerken

2017-02-05 Thread Gerard Vanderveken


Goedendag,

Iedereen gaat in zijn dorp naar "de kerk" en het gebouw staat 
alsdusdanig bekend, maar dat is voor mij geen alt name.
Voor mij dient er helemaal geen kerk in de naam te staan. Gewoon de 
patroonheilige is voldoende: dus Heilige Familie of Sint-Bavo.

Dat het een kerk is zie je aan het gebruikte symbool of de rest van de data.

Met vriendelijke groeten ,
Gerard

Marc Gemis wrote:


Hallo,

Ik ben momenteel bezig met het toevoegen van wikidata aan kerkgebouwen.
Omdat ik ook de wikidata items zelf creëeer raadpleeg ik Onroerend
Erfgoed en the ODIS databank.

Wat me nu opvalt is dat beiden als naam telkens "parochiekerk" ervoor
zetten. Dus bv.

Parochiekerk Heilige Familie  [1][2]

ODIS geeft telkens alle mogelijke alternatieven waaronder de kerk
gekend is. In dit geval is dat ook

"Heilige Familiekerk"

slechts in enkele uitzonderlijke gevallen zal het alternatief zonder
"kerk" opgelijst staan, terwijl in OSM we behoorlijk wat kerken hebben
waar de "kerk" in de naam ontbreekt.

Nu is mijn vraag : hoe gaan we daarmee om ?
Ik ben geneigd om "Parochiekerk X" als "official_name" te zetten, en
de variant met "kerk als "name". "alt_name" kan gebruikt worden als er
echt een alternatief is (bv. Sint-Baafskerk voor Sint-Bavokerk).

Wat denken jullie ?

m




[1] http://www.odis.be/lnk/OB_317
[2] https://id.erfgoed.net/erfgoedobjecten/75566

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Re: [OSM-talk-be] Planimetrisch punt

2016-12-16 Thread Gerard Vanderveken

Er is ook geen formule nodig. Gewoon omrekenen naar decimale graden is 
voldoende. (Fout is volgens Wiki maximum 65 cm.)
Zie 
https://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Europees_Terrestrisch_Referentiesysteem_1989


Mvg Gerard

Philippe Casteleyn wrote:

Het eerste wat ik op een plan zou zetten is een planimetrisch punt. 
 Ik heb er eentje langs het kanaal in Schiplaken op kaart gezet.
De coordinaten N 50°59'24.3304"   E 4°31'59.1629"  van het punt zijn 
in ETRS 1989.  JOSM ken dat niet en ik heb dan maar de 
projectiemethode WGS84 gebruikt.  Er zou een halve meter verschil 
kunnen op zitten.  Ik heb niet geconverteerd, ik heb ook niet te lang 
naar een formule gezocht.  Ik denk dat de x en y van Lambert 2008 ook 
niet kan.

De nodige link vindt u bij de OSM node
http://www.openstreetmap.org/node/4557537344#map=17/50.98966/4.53277=D
Planimetrische kerktorens op OSM zetten heeft volgens mij weinig zin. 
 Wat wel nuttig kan zijn is de grote signalisatie voor ondergrondse 
leidingen.






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Re: [OSM-talk-be] rendering

2016-07-27 Thread Gerard Vanderveken

Ook off-line OSM kaarten en gpx-visualisatie daarop zijn mogelijk met 
een app, zoals Geopaparazzi.

Belgie neemt ongeveer 350MB op je SD.
Met je GPS zie je waar je bent op de kaart en of je nog steeds op de 
omloop bent.

Door zoomen heb je veel meer details dan de papieren map.
Er zijn knoppen om je positie te SMS'en naar vrienden en eventueel 
nooddiensten.


Met vriendelijke groeten,
Gerard

André Pirard wrote:


On 2016-07-18 20:10, Bart Vanherck wrote:


Beste mappers,

Weet iemand in de groep hier of er ergens een service of een 
programma bestaat waarmee ik een gpx trace op een openstreetmap layer 
kan plaatsen. Het doel is om een redelijk gedetailleerde kaart te 
hebben om af te printen.


Ik ga namelijk de dodentocht doen, en mijn volgers zouden graag weten 
hoe de wandeling loopt. En internet access is niet mogelijk, vandaar 
de noodzaak om alles af te printen op papier.


alvast bedankt,

Bart


Salut Bart et tous,

GPSVisualizer.com  doit faire ce que tu 
veux.
Mais beaucoup diront qu'avant d'imprimer il faut penser à 
l'environnement !!!
Après chargement du fichier GPX sur un smartphone, le programme OSMand 
sera non seulement capable de montrer la piste GPX sur fond OSM mais 
aussi de la suivre en mode GPS, et ce sans Internet et sans papier.
Il faut vivre avec son temps et il y a de quoi amuser les promeneurs 
en ayant en poche un smartphone qui dit "tournez à gauche" ou bien 
"vous dépassez la vitesse limitée".  Dans un magasin, j'aime lui faire 
dire "Faites demi-tour dès que possible".


Cordialement,

André.




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Re: [OSM-talk-be] What could you map ? / Wat kan je mappen ?

2016-07-03 Thread Gerard Vanderveken

Het is juist dat je wel een paar keer moet klikken, alhoewel je er ook 
enkele kunt laten overslaan, door minder opties open te houden zoals een 
app vast te kiezen.
Op mijn tablet valt de snelheid voor losse geofoto's nogal mee. Ik heb 
niet het gevoel van te moeten wachten tussen het klikken.
Maar als je met de fotonota ook nog wat intypt, zakt de kadans 
onvermijdelijk helemaal in.


Aan de andere kant, je onderwerp loopt meestal niet weg!

mvg Gerard

Marc Gemis wrote:

Het grote nadeel van alle android gebaseerde foto oplossingen vind ik 
de snelheid. Als je in osmand of zo een foto wil maken moet 3 a 4 keer 
klikken en telkens veel geduld hebben. Tegen die tijd kan ik al 3 
foto's gemaakt hebben en verder wandelen. Dat is voor mij en de honden 
belangrijker dan de nabewerkingstijd thuis.


Maar ieder zijn stijl

m

Op 2 jul. 2016 17:16 schreef "Gerard Vanderveken" <g...@ghia.eu 
<mailto:g...@ghia.eu>>:


PS
Ook rechtstreeks POI upload naar OSM vanuit het programma!

Gerard Vanderveken wrote:


Ook heel goed is Geopaparazz
<https://github.com/geopaparazzi/geopaparazzi/wiki>i voor
surveying onderweg met Android.
OSM kaart, gpx log en nota's (tekst, foto, schets of form) op de
kaart.

Gerard.

Guy Vanvuchelen wrote:


Bedankt Marc, voor de uitleg. Gelukkig moet ik met OsmAnd geen gebruik maken 
van geotag of iets dergelijks.  Ik zie ineens waar de foto's gemaakt zijn. Ga 
het morgen eens proberen.

Guy Vanvuchelen


-Oorspronkelijk bericht-
Van: Marc Gemis [mailto:marc.ge...@gmail.com] 
Verzonden: zaterdag 2 juli 2016 14:34

Aan: OpenStreetMap Belgium
Onderwerp: Re: [OSM-talk-be] What could you map ? / Wat kan je mappen ?

Guy,

de plek bepalen is niet zo moeilijk. Terwijl ik wandel, neemt mijn GPS een spoor op. Bij 
het vertrek zorg ik ervoor dat ik een foto maak op hetzelfde moment als dat ik een 
waypoint creeer op de GPS. Zo heb ik een "exacte" tijd waarom ik beiden kan 
synchroniseren. Dat kan je bv.
nadien in JOSM doen, zelf gebruik ik geotag. JOSM heeft wat last met grote 
hoeveelheden grote foto's. Je kan een foto van je GPS scherm maken, maar de 
mijne toont geen seconden, een waypoint heeft dat wel en is dus iets 
nauwkeuriger. De waypoint file open ik in een gewone teksteditor.

De richting, die heb ik niet. Een smartphone kan nog wel orientatie aangeven 
bij een foto. Meestal maak ik wel foto's in de richting dat ik loop, dus van 
zodra er een stukje straat opstaat weet ik in welke richting de foto gemaakt 
is. Of ik maar er een paar zodat ik een overzicht heb van de situatie

Je hebt natuurlijk gelijk wat het gebouw betreft. (ik hoopte al dat iemand het 
nog zou aanbrengen) Daar kan je ook vanalles over mappen:
building=apartments (dus niet house of gewoon yes), building:levels=3 , 
roof:shape=flat. En natuurlijk Den Uil. Het is een taverne. Het telefoonnummer 
staart op het raam. Je kan ook nog outdoor_seating=yes erop zetten, of de 
nieuwe tag leisure=outdoor_seating [1] op het gebied buiten zetten, met 
allerlei tags die aangeven dat er zonnewering is enz. Zelf map ik de taverne 
als punt, omdat ze niet het gehele gebouw beslaat.

mvg

m

[1] http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:leisure%3Doutdoor_seating
(nog deels in het Duits)

2016-07-02 13:38 GMT+02:00 Guy Vanvuchelen <guy.vanvuche...@gmail.com> 
<mailto:guy.vanvuche...@gmail.com>:
 


Ik volgde de discussie over de foto met veel aandacht.  Maar wat ik me vooral 
afvraag is hoe je zo'n foto kan situeren op de kaart. Zelf gebruik ik OsmAnd 
met audio boodschappen en soms een extra foto om bijvoorbeeld straatnamen beter 
te onthouden. Maar ik heb problemen om te weten waar ik juist stond en in welke 
richting ik die foto nam.
Verder verwondert het mij dat niemand iets schreef over het gebouw op de foto. 
Waarschijnlijk een café met naam 'Den Uil'. Ik zou in dit geval via het 
internet uitzoeken of het over een café of een restaurant gaat, telefoonnummer, 
website, openingsuren, noteren.

Guy Vanvuchelen

-Oorspronkelijk bericht-
Van: Marc Gemis [mailto:marc.ge...@gmail.com]
Verzonden: vrijdag 1 juli 2016 13:06
Aan: OpenStreetMap Belgium
Onderwerp: [OSM-talk-be] What could you map ? / Wat kan je mappen ?

I wonder whether we could learn to see/map more by looking at each 
other's survey pictures. Would it allow novices to "see more" ? Let's 
try out I know the mailing list does not allow to include pictures, so 
you have to do it with a link


What could/would you map when you look at [1] ? What would you investigate 
further ?

Feel free to answer in French/German/English or Dutch

p.s. Feel free to look at the other pictures at the site [2] and map 
anything you want :-) Under the picture you'll find a (i) which shows 
a map when you click it



 Nederlands 

Ik vraag me af of we van elkaar kunnen leren als we kijken naar de 
foto's die we maken tijdens een survey ? Zou het helpen om
(beginnende) mappers

Re: [OSM-talk-be] What could you map ? / Wat kan je mappen ?

2016-07-02 Thread Gerard Vanderveken


PS
Ook rechtstreeks POI upload naar OSM vanuit het programma!

Gerard Vanderveken wrote:

Ook heel goed is Geopaparazz 
<https://github.com/geopaparazzi/geopaparazzi/wiki>i voor surveying 
onderweg met Android.

OSM kaart, gpx log en nota's (tekst, foto, schets of form) op de kaart.

Gerard.

Guy Vanvuchelen wrote:


Bedankt Marc, voor de uitleg. Gelukkig moet ik met OsmAnd geen gebruik maken 
van geotag of iets dergelijks.  Ik zie ineens waar de foto's gemaakt zijn. Ga 
het morgen eens proberen.

Guy Vanvuchelen


-Oorspronkelijk bericht-
Van: Marc Gemis [mailto:marc.ge...@gmail.com] 
Verzonden: zaterdag 2 juli 2016 14:34

Aan: OpenStreetMap Belgium
Onderwerp: Re: [OSM-talk-be] What could you map ? / Wat kan je mappen ?

Guy,

de plek bepalen is niet zo moeilijk. Terwijl ik wandel, neemt mijn GPS een spoor op. Bij 
het vertrek zorg ik ervoor dat ik een foto maak op hetzelfde moment als dat ik een 
waypoint creeer op de GPS. Zo heb ik een "exacte" tijd waarom ik beiden kan 
synchroniseren. Dat kan je bv.
nadien in JOSM doen, zelf gebruik ik geotag. JOSM heeft wat last met grote 
hoeveelheden grote foto's. Je kan een foto van je GPS scherm maken, maar de 
mijne toont geen seconden, een waypoint heeft dat wel en is dus iets 
nauwkeuriger. De waypoint file open ik in een gewone teksteditor.

De richting, die heb ik niet. Een smartphone kan nog wel orientatie aangeven 
bij een foto. Meestal maak ik wel foto's in de richting dat ik loop, dus van 
zodra er een stukje straat opstaat weet ik in welke richting de foto gemaakt 
is. Of ik maar er een paar zodat ik een overzicht heb van de situatie

Je hebt natuurlijk gelijk wat het gebouw betreft. (ik hoopte al dat iemand het 
nog zou aanbrengen) Daar kan je ook vanalles over mappen:
building=apartments (dus niet house of gewoon yes), building:levels=3 , 
roof:shape=flat. En natuurlijk Den Uil. Het is een taverne. Het telefoonnummer 
staart op het raam. Je kan ook nog outdoor_seating=yes erop zetten, of de 
nieuwe tag leisure=outdoor_seating [1] op het gebied buiten zetten, met 
allerlei tags die aangeven dat er zonnewering is enz. Zelf map ik de taverne 
als punt, omdat ze niet het gehele gebouw beslaat.

mvg

m

[1] http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:leisure%3Doutdoor_seating
(nog deels in het Duits)

2016-07-02 13:38 GMT+02:00 Guy Vanvuchelen <guy.vanvuche...@gmail.com>:
 


Ik volgde de discussie over de foto met veel aandacht.  Maar wat ik me vooral 
afvraag is hoe je zo'n foto kan situeren op de kaart. Zelf gebruik ik OsmAnd 
met audio boodschappen en soms een extra foto om bijvoorbeeld straatnamen beter 
te onthouden. Maar ik heb problemen om te weten waar ik juist stond en in welke 
richting ik die foto nam.
Verder verwondert het mij dat niemand iets schreef over het gebouw op de foto. 
Waarschijnlijk een café met naam 'Den Uil'. Ik zou in dit geval via het 
internet uitzoeken of het over een café of een restaurant gaat, telefoonnummer, 
website, openingsuren, noteren.

Guy Vanvuchelen

-Oorspronkelijk bericht-
Van: Marc Gemis [mailto:marc.ge...@gmail.com]
Verzonden: vrijdag 1 juli 2016 13:06
Aan: OpenStreetMap Belgium
Onderwerp: [OSM-talk-be] What could you map ? / Wat kan je mappen ?

I wonder whether we could learn to see/map more by looking at each 
other's survey pictures. Would it allow novices to "see more" ? Let's 
try out I know the mailing list does not allow to include pictures, so 
you have to do it with a link


What could/would you map when you look at [1] ? What would you investigate 
further ?

Feel free to answer in French/German/English or Dutch

p.s. Feel free to look at the other pictures at the site [2] and map 
anything you want :-) Under the picture you'll find a (i) which shows 
a map when you click it



 Nederlands 

Ik vraag me af of we van elkaar kunnen leren als we kijken naar de 
foto's die we maken tijdens een survey ? Zou het helpen om
(beginnende) mappers meer te leren zien ? Laat ons het eens 
uitproberen. Jammer genoeg laat de mailing list niet toe om foto's toe 
te voegen, dus moet je het met een link stellen


Wat zou je kunnen mappen, of wat map je gewoonlijk als je [1] bekijkt ? Wat zou 
je van nader bij gaan bekijken ?


p.s. Het staat je vrij om naar de andere foto's op de site [2] te kijken en om 
het even wat te mappen dat je erop ziet :-) Onder de foto staat een (i), als je 
daarop klikt, zie je een kaartje.




[1] 
https://photos.smugmug.com/OSM/OSM-2016/2016-06-09-Wilrijk/i-b8Xdd5g/0
/O/DSC_3228.jpg [2] gallery: 
https://xian.smugmug.com/OSM/OSM-2016/2016-06-09-Wilrijk/i-b8Xdd5g


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Re: [OSM-talk-be] What could you map ? / Wat kan je mappen ?

2016-07-01 Thread Gerard Vanderveken


Congrats!!!
( I didn't  connect the OSM username with you.)

To me, as there are not much real unmapped places in Belgium, you should 
always start from the map and during survey check what is missing and 
otherwise, if what is present on the map is actually still present and 
correct.
Else you could take a lot of pictures and notes of things already done. 
Seems a waste of time and effort to me.


As said below, for me the current mapping of sidewalks is fine!

For the buildings and house numbering, I see a lot of the same problems 
with these automatic imports as in regard with the 'import' of satelite 
photo's.
Every day, buildings, new streets, ... get constructed or demolished.  
Satelite photo's and databases are frequently not on par with the real 
situation.
eg. In Huldenberg you have Zagerijstraat, Priesterberg, 20 houses down 
at the St-Jansbergstwg, etc.
IMO, every import at the desk, should be followed or preceeded by a 
survey at place, to verify current status.
I consider these tools more as a drawing aid and see the real force of 
the open street map in its continual survey by the many and as such 
following much closer the reality, then the other tools.


Regards,
Gerard

Marc Gemis wrote:


I know I mapped the place in detail, but I hoped people would mention
what they would map without looking at the map :-)

I stopped mapping house numbers ( I have collected more than 20.000 by
hand according to Pascal Neis :-)  ), as they are imported via CRAB at
the moment and maybe later this year via a GRB import (with the
buildings).
That's why I turned to other stuff.

I've heard pro's and con's for separate sidewalks & cycleways. I don't
separate them as long as there is no physical barrier (hedge, guard
rail, ditch,...)
I'll try to map sidewalk=... or cycleway=... on the road though.

I'll have a closer look at the TIA sign

m.

On Fri, Jul 1, 2016 at 2:53 PM, Gerard Vanderveken <g...@ghia.eu> wrote:
 


Hi,

Checking on the map, learns me that most items are already thoroughly mapped
(street cabinets, bins, advertising, lanes, crossings,...)
Things lacking, but not derivable from the photo are the division of
buildings and the corresponding addresses of the buildings.
IMO addresses are of more importance then the little street furniture and
should get more priority in mapping.
Not meaning, that I don't appreciate these mappings, every added object
counts!

When you have lot of time, you could also map the separated footwalk and
bicycle paths, but this is advanced stuff, and I don't recommend it, as it
is not so easy to make a correct separation and have all options for
connections and resulting in no foot etc on the main highway itself, so that
routing programs for bike and foot will always select the correct paths. If
not done well, it makes more clutter then making things real or clear.
It seems these paths are already good and sufficient tagged in the map.

So, in short, at first sight, not much extra to map from the photo.
(I assume the sign to TIA is simply a direction and not part of a (tourist)
route, which would imply a missing relation for some bicycle route/network)

Regards,
Gerard.

Marc Gemis wrote:

   


I wonder whether we could learn to see/map more by looking at each
other's survey pictures. Would it allow novices to "see more" ? Let's
try out
I know the mailing list does not allow to include pictures, so you
have to do it with a link

What could/would you map when you look at [1] ? What would you
investigate further ?

Feel free to answer in French/German/English or Dutch

p.s. Feel free to look at the other pictures at the site [2] and map
anything you want :-) Under the picture you'll find a (i) which shows
a map when you click it


 Nederlands 

Ik vraag me af of we van elkaar kunnen leren als we kijken naar de
foto's die we maken tijdens een survey ? Zou het helpen om
(beginnende) mappers meer te leren zien ? Laat ons het eens
uitproberen. Jammer genoeg laat de mailing list niet toe om foto's toe
te voegen, dus moet je het met een link stellen

Wat zou je kunnen mappen, of wat map je gewoonlijk als je [1] bekijkt
? Wat zou je van nader bij gaan bekijken ?


p.s. Het staat je vrij om naar de andere foto's op de site [2] te
kijken en om het even wat te mappen dat je erop ziet :-) Onder de foto
staat een (i), als je daarop klikt, zie je een kaartje.




[1]
https://photos.smugmug.com/OSM/OSM-2016/2016-06-09-Wilrijk/i-b8Xdd5g/0/O/DSC_3228.jpg
[2] gallery:
https://xian.smugmug.com/OSM/OSM-2016/2016-06-09-Wilrijk/i-b8Xdd5g

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Re: [OSM-talk-be] Name of "domeinbos"

2016-04-07 Thread Gerard Vanderveken

Het probleem is ook wel dat het meestal natuurgebieden zijn, waar in de 
loop van de jaren ook altijd nog wel percelen worden bijgekocht. Soms 
liggen er ook nog prive-percelen in het gebied.
Maar het belangrijkste is toch wel dat het gemapt wordt en er een naam 
voor bestaat in OSM, ook al is de juiste omvang niet bekend of korrekt.


Meestal zijn er wel kaartjes van de exacte percelen te vinden in studies 
die bvb het INBO doet of bij de vereniging die het gebied beheert, zoals 
Natuurpunt enz.


Groeten,
Gerard.

Marc Gemis wrote:


Het probleem is misschien nog wat algemener. Soms zijn die welkom
borden voor een "gebied": bos, heide, velden, ...
De kaartjes op die borden zijn niet altijd even duidelijk of komen
niet overeen met de stukjes landuse in OSM.
Ik wil me er dan gemakkelijk vanaf maken en ergens een node plaatsen
die zegt hier ligt het gebied genaamd X.
omdat het dan niet altijd over bos gaat, dacht ik aan place.

Ik heb vast en zeker ergens een foto van zo'n bord waar het niet
duidelijk is over welke "percelen" het gaat.


2016-04-07 13:15 GMT+02:00 Karel Adams :
 


Is dat niet een bijzonder letterlijke vertaling van het Franse "foret
domaniale"? Als ik het goed begrijp duidt dat op een bos dat door de
overheid wordt beheerd, of eigendom is van de overheid. Misschien eens
vragen aan de overheid die deze naam heeft toegekend, wat er precies met de
term bedoeld wordt?

Qua tagging (waar ik niet veel benul van heb...) lijkt "landuse=forest"
correct, met "place=" zie ik niet veel verband.

Karel


On 07-04-16 10:57, Marc Gemis wrote:
   


How do you map the name of a "domeinbos" ? I know you can use the name
tag, but typically the name applies to a different area than what is
tagged as forest.

two examples: [1] & [2]

Would it be OK to add a node with landuse=forest ? Or a place=locality ?




[1] https://xian.smugmug.com/OSM/OSM-2016/2016-03-19-Ham/i-t3W5gGT/A
[2] https://xian.smugmug.com/OSM/OSM-2016/2016-03-19-Ham/i-TLz34gH/A

m

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Re: [OSM-talk-be] Name of "domeinbos"

2016-04-07 Thread Gerard Vanderveken

No, that name is OK and is sometimes also used on the info panels used 
by ANB.

If you fill in domeinbos in the search box, you find several results, eg
http://www.openstreetmap.org/way/166991444
But it has mosttimes a second name, which is the main name, reducing 
Domeinbos to an always used qualifier.
So, tag simply with name=Domeinbos or if you know the real name: 
name=Domeinbos Xx


Regards,
Gerard

Karel Adams wrote:

Is dat niet een bijzonder letterlijke vertaling van het Franse "foret 
domaniale"? Als ik het goed begrijp duidt dat op een bos dat door de 
overheid wordt beheerd, of eigendom is van de overheid. Misschien eens 
vragen aan de overheid die deze naam heeft toegekend, wat er precies 
met de term bedoeld wordt?


Qua tagging (waar ik niet veel benul van heb...) lijkt 
"landuse=forest" correct, met "place=" zie ik niet veel verband.


Karel

On 07-04-16 10:57, Marc Gemis wrote:


How do you map the name of a "domeinbos" ? I know you can use the name
tag, but typically the name applies to a different area than what is
tagged as forest.

two examples: [1] & [2]

Would it be OK to add a node with landuse=forest ? Or a place=locality ?




[1] https://xian.smugmug.com/OSM/OSM-2016/2016-03-19-Ham/i-t3W5gGT/A
[2] https://xian.smugmug.com/OSM/OSM-2016/2016-03-19-Ham/i-TLz34gH/A

m

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Re: [OSM-talk-be] Strange nice map

2015-12-27 Thread Gerard Vanderveken


Originates from this 'wizz kid' .
I like the colours and general appearance, but streetnames are not optimal.

Regards,
Gerard

André Pirard wrote:


Hi,

I have been very surprised to find this 
 
as result of a search.

Definitely all OpenStreetMap.
Strange rendering.
Definitely for the clever ones who manage to use OSM without a Help.
I found that one can ask for "petrol near Houte-si-Plout", but not bread.
But hospital and cemetery are OK.
Investigate, guess and tell us more surprises.

Cheers

André.





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Re: [OSM-talk-be] Wandelknooppunten in Osmand.

2015-10-07 Thread Gerard Vanderveken


Was dat een .map bestand dat je gedownload had voor een offline kaart?
Daar hoort ook een .xml konfiguratie / style bestand bij voor de voetwegen.
Dit moet in dezelfde folder staan en hernoemd worden naar dezelfde naam 
van de .map


Gerard.

Guy Vanvuchelen wrote:


Bedankt Marc, zo kan ik thuis (met wifi) tenminste zien wat al gemapt is.

 


Guy Vanvuchelen

 


Van: Marc Gemis [mailto:marc.ge...@gmail.com]
Verzonden: woensdag 7 oktober 2015 13:15
Aan: OpenStreetMap Belgium
Onderwerp: Re: [OSM-talk-be] Wandelknooppunten in Osmand.

 

Geen ervaring mee, je kan eventueel ook de on-line kaart 
"OpenWandelkaart (BE,NL)" activeren.


Bij voorkeur als "kaartbron" en de gewone kaart dan als "Underlay-kaart"

 

Je moet er dan wel rekening mee houden dat je data-abonnement gebruikt 
wordt. 

 


mvg

 


m

 

2015-10-07 13:04 GMT+02:00 Guy Vanvuchelen >:


Op de vraag van mapper ‘Schakkebroek’ om rwn knooppunten zichtbaar te 
maken kreeg hij volgend antwoord:



*wn_ref already supported as POI. I made some corrections and next 
nightly version will have icons for them. Search POI for 
"International hiking network node".


02.10.2015 16:25, Victor Shcherb пишет:

 

Ik heb de nightly versie gedownload maar het lukt me niet om 
knooppunten te zien.  Wel kon ik een eigen filter maken Vervoer –> 
International hiking network node maar als ik die activeer vind ik 
niets. Heeft iemand daar ervaring mee?


 


Guy Vanvuchelen

 



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Re: [OSM-talk-be] What is "The Smart Box" ?

2015-09-25 Thread Gerard Vanderveken


This 

Regards,
Gerard

Marc Gemis wrote:


Hallo,

Anyone knows what a "The Smart Box" is ?
pictures [1], [2]

and how do you map one ?


regards

[1] 
https://xian.smugmug.com/OSM/OSM-2015/2015-OSM-Miscellaneous/i-RTTDHJR/0/O/20150922_200213_HDR.jpg
[2] 
https://xian.smugmug.com/OSM/OSM-2015/2015-OSM-Miscellaneous/i-q8kCgv3/0/O/20150922_200222_HDR.jpg



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Re: [OSM-talk-be] A12 motorway

2015-09-04 Thread Gerard Vanderveken


Hi,

I see thet the ring of Antwerp is incorporated in the relations of E19 
 
(Amsterdam - Paris) and of the A1 
(Flemish part of A19).

While the E-roads are a conceptual thing, this is understandable.

However the A-roads are a physical, real highway and they should be 
mapped as indicated on eg. the km-markings.
That means that the ring around a city is a separate way: the R-roads 
and not part of a A-road.


For this reason I would suggest to leave the A12 in 2 pieces and 
recommend to remove the ring from the A1.


In any case:
- segment 3 is the end point of segment 6 and should be joined to it by 
adding it and the missing piece of road between.
- same problem for segment 4 which should be joined to 6 with th missing 
bridge part.


Regards,
Gerard.

Marc Gemis wrote:


Hallo,

I'm wondering whether the relation for the A12 should include the 
ringway in Antwerp as well.
Right now, the relation consists of 2 separate sections, north and 
south of Antwerp.

see http://osmrm.openstreetmap.de/relation.jsp?id=102684

Depending on the answer to that question, I might remove what is 
marked as section 3, which is not connected to any other part. 


regards

m



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Re: [OSM-talk-be] Lanes turns from wich side you start to count?

2014-11-30 Thread Gerard Vanderveken


Hi,

It is simple:
Look in the direction of the road= arrow (eg SN)
Observe lane from left to right.
In Belgium on a common street with 2 directions, the left side is in the 
reverse direction (eg 2 NS) and the right side lanes goes in the 
direction of the arrow (eg 3 SN).

So you have in the strait piece of the road:

turn:lanes:backward=none|none
turn:lanes:forward=none|none|none 

For the turning itself before a crossing you consider the direction of 
the lane:
eg NS outside lane (1)  is for turning right and going through, inside 
lane is for turning left (by crossing other 3 lanes)


turn:lanes:backward=right|through;left

In the forward direction (SN) is eg a lane for every direction

turn:lanes:forward=left|through|right

The last and outside lane (5) is of course for turning right.

Regards,
Gerard


Jakka wrote:


Hi,

Reading en try to understand lanes and turns wiki's

https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:turn

In Belgium right side driving how do I compose my value key of de lanes?

I get confuse with the wiki images and explanations in it.
Not going in detail yet only the positions of lanes. For i go futher 
to understand the next wiki.


OSM direction (arrows) south to north

lanes=5
2 north to south and 3 south to north nummerique counting from left to 
right 1,2,3,4,5


so I split north to south thats something with backward
turn:lanes:backward 1|2
so I split south to north thats something with forward
turn:lanes:forward 3|4|5

or is it from right to left?
5|4|3|2|1??

Or the lanes them self left to right or right to left.

Sorry I am lost here


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Re: [OSM-talk-be] Lanes turns from wich side you start to count?

2014-11-30 Thread Gerard Vanderveken


Oops!
turn:lanes:backward=right|through;left
should be
turn:lanes:backward=right;through|left




Gerard Vanderveken wrote:


Hi,

It is simple:
Look in the direction of the road= arrow (eg SN)
Observe lane from left to right.
In Belgium on a common street with 2 directions, the left side is in 
the reverse direction (eg 2 NS) and the right side lanes goes in the 
direction of the arrow (eg 3 SN).

So you have in the strait piece of the road:

turn:lanes:backward=none|none
turn:lanes:forward=none|none|none
For the turning itself before a crossing you consider the direction of 
the lane:
eg NS outside lane (1)  is for turning right and going through, 
inside lane is for turning left (by crossing other 3 lanes)


turn:lanes:backward=right|through;left

In the forward direction (SN) is eg a lane for every direction

turn:lanes:forward=left|through|right

The last and outside lane (5) is of course for turning right.

Regards,
Gerard


Jakka wrote:


Hi,

Reading en try to understand lanes and turns wiki's

https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:turn

In Belgium right side driving how do I compose my value key of de lanes?

I get confuse with the wiki images and explanations in it.
Not going in detail yet only the positions of lanes. For i go futher 
to understand the next wiki.


OSM direction (arrows) south to north

lanes=5
2 north to south and 3 south to north nummerique counting from left 
to right 1,2,3,4,5


so I split north to south thats something with backward
turn:lanes:backward 1|2
so I split south to north thats something with forward
turn:lanes:forward 3|4|5

or is it from right to left?
5|4|3|2|1??

Or the lanes them self left to right or right to left.

Sorry I am lost here


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Re: [OSM-talk-be] Lanes turns from wich side you start to count?

2014-11-30 Thread Gerard Vanderveken

The order is  from left to right as seen in the direction of the traffic 
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Lanes#Two_driving_directions, not 
the road (arrow).
There is a style for Josm 
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Lanes#JOSM, that visualises the road.



Jakka wrote:


Thanks,
One step further:

turn:lanes:backward=right;through|left

Which must you put first is this strictly?
turn:lanes:backward=the direction change;continue|left
or
turn:lanes:backward=continue;the direction change|left




Gerard Vanderveken schreef op 30/11/2014 om 13:24:


Oops!
turn:lanes:backward=right|through;left
should be
turn:lanes:backward=right;through|left




Gerard Vanderveken wrote:


Hi,

It is simple:
Look in the direction of the road= arrow (eg SN)
Observe lane from left to right.
In Belgium on a common street with 2 directions, the left side is in
the reverse direction (eg 2 NS) and the right side lanes goes in the
direction of the arrow (eg 3 SN).
So you have in the strait piece of the road:

turn:lanes:backward=none|none
turn:lanes:forward=none|none|none
For the turning itself before a crossing you consider the direction of
the lane:
eg NS outside lane (1)  is for turning right and going through,
inside lane is for turning left (by crossing other 3 lanes)

turn:lanes:backward=right|through;left

In the forward direction (SN) is eg a lane for every direction

turn:lanes:forward=left|through|right

The last and outside lane (5) is of course for turning right.

Regards,
Gerard


Jakka wrote:


Hi,

Reading en try to understand lanes and turns wiki's

https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:turn

In Belgium right side driving how do I compose my value key of de 
lanes?


I get confuse with the wiki images and explanations in it.
Not going in detail yet only the positions of lanes. For i go futher
to understand the next wiki.

OSM direction (arrows) south to north

lanes=5
2 north to south and 3 south to north nummerique counting from left
to right 1,2,3,4,5

so I split north to south thats something with backward
turn:lanes:backward 1|2
so I split south to north thats something with forward
turn:lanes:forward 3|4|5

or is it from right to left?
5|4|3|2|1??

Or the lanes them self left to right or right to left.

Sorry I am lost here


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Re: [OSM-talk-be] mountainbikeroutes: lcn of rcn

2014-05-08 Thread Gerard Vanderveken

Die van het Dijleland zijn allemaal lussen, gemarkeerd met gekleurde pijlen.
http://www.toerismevlaamsbrabant.be/fietsen/fietsproducten/mountainbikenetwerk-dijleland/index.jsp
De lussen delen hier en daar wel een segment of wegkruising, zodat je
onderweg van de ene lus naar de andere kan hoppen. Hierdoor kan je ze
ook aan mekaar schakelen en zo grotere afstanden afleggen, maar er is
geen knooppunten systeem zoals bij de wandel- en fietsroutes.

Iedere lus is meestal op het grondgebied van 1 of 2 gemeenten, zodat lcn
zeker het meest toepasselijk is.

De lussen staan op zich zelf, maar worden altijd wel gepland om
verbinding te kunnen vormen met andere lussen.
Wanneer voldoende lussen zullen aanwezig zijn om de hele provincie te
bedekken en verbinden, ontstaat er van zelf een netwerk, dat dan
eventueel tot knooppuntennetwerk zou kunnen worden omgevormd. Een en
ander hangt af van de plannen van Bloso (en de gemeentebesturen).

Gerard.

Jo wrote:

We gebruiken rcn al voor de knooppuntenroutes, dus wat mij betreft
liefts allemaal als lcn. Zijn het lussen? Of komen er ook knooppunten
aan te pas? Is er een tag waaruit het verschil tussen een 'gewone'
fietsroute en een mountainbikeroute kan worden afgeleid?

Polyglot

Op 1 mei 2014 15:36 schreef Stijn Rombauts stijnromba...@yahoo.com
mailto:stijnromba...@yahoo.com:

Hoi,

Er zijn mountainbikeroutes getagd als lcn (local cycle network) of
als rcn (regional cycle network). Omdat Bloso de
mountainbikeroutes meer en meer verzamelt in netwerken (Euregio,
Dijleland, Noord-Limburg, Rivierenland, enz.), lijkt het me
gerechtvaardigd om ze als rcn te taggen, maar er is duidelijk geen
consensus. Dus, wat maken we ervan: lcn of rcn?

Groetje,

Stijn

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Re: [OSM-talk-be] 1 or 2 lanes ?

2014-02-27 Thread Gerard Vanderveken


Hi,

From the same lane page on the Wiki 
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:lanes:
If the lane is also regulary opened with heavy traffic (spitsstrook 
http://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spitsstrook) then it should be counted 
(lanes=2), if it is only used for emergencies it is a shoulder and 
should not be counted (lanes=1).

Just my take.

Regards,
Gerard.

Ben Abelshausen wrote:


Hi Gilbert,

I'm not sure at all, I just had a quick look at the wiki but maybe 
this is a solution?


http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Shoulder

Met vriendelijke groeten,
Best regards,

Ben Abelshausen


On Wed, Feb 26, 2014 at 9:40 PM, Gilbert Hersschens 
gherssch...@gmail.com mailto:gherssch...@gmail.com wrote:


I have a highway with separate roads in each direction. Each road
has one lane for traffic and one breakdown lane to the right.
Normally we tag this as a road with one one-way lane (we only
count TRAFFIC lanes, see
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:lanes).
The highway goes through a tunnel. Each road has its own pipe in
the tunnel.  When entering the tunnel, the breakdown lane is now
marked as a spare lane where traffic is not allowed (red X signal
above the lane). The idea is to open the spare lane in case of
accidents or in case the pipe in the other direction needs to be
closed and the normal lane will be used for traffic in the
opposite direction. 
How should this be tagged ? 
Change from lanes = 1 to lanes = 2 and back to one when we are at

the end of the tunnel?
Are there additional tags for such a situation ? Examples ?

Gilbert

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Re: [OSM-talk-be] New user OsmAnd_Pieter

2014-01-14 Thread Gerard Vanderveken


Don't know how the app works, but I assume they have a user login at OSM.
Maybe we need to contact the app-builder and ask that they add something 
in their app, that warns the user of messages in its inbox.

Or even allow him to read and write these messages.

Regards,
Gerard.

Jo wrote:

We should try to convince him to create a Notes note, instead of 
adding objects directly, but that's indeed hard to accomplish when we 
can't reach him.


On the plus side, it's good to see new users coming along

Jo



Op 14 januari 2014 09:39 schreef Glenn Plas gl...@byte-consult.be 
mailto:gl...@byte-consult.be:


(english below)

Morgend allemaal,

Deze week een paar triggers afgegaan hier door mapping acties van
nieuwe gebruikers.Ik zou graag user OsmAnd_Pieter willen
bereiken, heb paar dagen terug een boodschap via OSM site
achtergelaten zonder gevolg.   Spijtig dat een nieuwe gebruiker
zijn tijd verspilt aan het taggen van zaken die reeds in OSM bestaan.

Probleem met deze users is dat ik vermoed dat hij via OSM AND
(zien usernaam ...) aan het taggen is, waardoor er in 'mijn
streek' verschillende duplicate speed_cameras in de database
eindigen.  Of eindigden, want ik heb de meest van zijn changes
liggen nakijken en verwijderd waar nodig.  gelukkig heeft die geen
te grote changesets -voorlopig-.

Ik heb geen ervaring met OSM AND mappen (heb het wel draaien op
phone).  Ik vraag me dus af waarom de user niet zag dat er al
speed_cameras stonden, op meters van zijn plaatsingen.

Wel storend dat je zo'n user niet kan bereiken, wss logt die nooit
op de site in.


Morning everyone,

This week a few automated triggers went off in 'my area'
concerning actions of new usrs.   I would love to get in touch
with the user OsmAnd_Pieter to discuss some of the beginner
mistakes he recently made concerning speed camera's that he mapped
that where already in the map.

It's a shame new users waste their time on things that have been
done already.  I've removed the duplicate camera's for the
crossroad nearby but he's taggin them all over north Belgium.   It
looks like it's done on OSM-AND, obviouslty he's not seeing the
existing speeds camera's on his device and he's not checking his
commits in JOSM.

Pretty annoying we can't reach him

Glenn

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Re: [OSM-talk-be] osm.be

2013-11-19 Thread Gerard Vanderveken


Looking good!

The language selector doesn't work when not at home page.
Replace

a href=nlNL/a / a href=frFR/a
with
a href=/nlNL/a / a href=/frFR/a

However additional script may be needed to stay on eg the blog and not 
to be redirected to home.


Regards,
Gerard.

Ben Abelshausen wrote:


Hello,

We have been working on the osm.be http://osm.be website. We have 
been adding content and most of the work has been done by Jorieke V on 
this.


I setup a test-account for previewing the website. It is still offline 
until after some form of approval from this list and some translations.


go here:
http://osm.be/user/login
and login with:
user:
osm
pass:
osm

Now you should be able to access everything. We really need some 
translation help. All content can be translated.


If you want to help with this reply to this email with a username of 
your choice and I will given you access to help. I will also create a 
backup of what is there already this has been a couple of days work 
already adding the content alone.


Met vriendelijke groeten,
Best regards,

Ben Abelshausen



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Re: [OSM-talk-be] Brussels

2013-11-13 Thread Gerard Vanderveken

The only problem is how to name it.
The three territories are called:

Flemish Community, Communauté flamande, Vlaamse Gemeenschap, Flämische
Gemeinschaft
French Community, Communauté française, Franse Gemeenschap,
Französische Gemeinschaft
German-speaking Community, Communauté germanophone, Duitstalige
Gemeenschap, Deutschsprachige Gemeinschaft

They should normally not be called territories, but I'm not going to
start a misunderstood revolution.

Brussels' Community? Bilingual Community?

I think it should be Bilingual Community, because
- that border level refers to the languages and Brussels is not (an
official one)
- it's a neutral description and does not favourite one of the languages
as else one of them should be mentioned first.
A note could explain that the community is part of both, but is mapped
seperatly, because of the limitations of OSM.

Regards,
Gerard.

André Pirard wrote:

On 2013-11-13 12:18, Marc Gemis wrote :

Can someone please tell me how I can properly tag this
POI http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/237662466 ?

It's a shop located in the Pierstraat in Reet. The building has an
addr:street tag and is part of an associatedStreet relation. However
Nominatim (and openlinkmap) places it in the Pierstraat -
Matenstraat. Do a look-up for Vero Golf on osm.org http://osm.org

Would anyone mind so little? ;-)

Brussels: Village Boundary Brussels, Ville de Bruxelles,
Brussels-Capital, French Community, Brussels-Capital Region,
1000;1040, Belgium
http://www.openstreetmap.org/?minlon=4.33549880981445minlat=50.7964057922363maxlon=4.40201187133789maxlat=50.8904113769531

Nominatim locates that village in the French Community !!!
And nobody seems to care !!!

...
Territorialité des langues

https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communaut%C3%A9s_de_Belgique#Territorialit.C3.A9_des_langues

La Constitution belge a prévu, en son article 4
https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Article_4_de_la_Constitution_belge,
quatre régions linguistiques
https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/R%C3%A9gions_linguistiques_de_Belgique :
la région de langue néerlandaise, la région de Bruxelles-Capitale
(bilingue français-néerlandais), la région de langue française et la
région de langue allemande (la plupart des communes des Cantons de
l'Est
https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cantons_de_l%27Est_%28Belgique%29).
Ces quatre zones délimitent les territoires où chaque langue est la
langue officielle, avec en plus trente communes situées près des
frontières linguistiques où des minorités historiques bénéficient de
facilités linguistiques
https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Facilit%C3%A9s_linguistiques.

Les Communautés ne représentent donc pas directement l'ensemble des
personnes parlant une des langues officielles, mais les habitants des
différentes régions linguistiques.

Gemeenschap (België)
https://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gemeenschap_%28Belgi%C3%AB%29

Een gemeenschap is een persoonsgebonden overheid in België
https://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Belgi%C3%AB.

...

Alle Belgen vallen onder een van de volgende drie taalgemeenschappen ...

...

Brussel

Brussel is officieel tweetalig, behorend tot zowel de Vlaamse en
Franse gemeenschap...

The issue seems clear to me, especially in French.
We have 3 kinds of persons according to the official language they
speak, but we have 4 territories one of which is bilingual in the
sense that their people can choose between two languages. behorend
tot zowel is ambiguous: it should made clear that it speaks of the
persons and not the territories.
But that's obvious. A territory cannot be inside 2 disjoint
territories, and that's the problem...
As OSM is obviously drawing territories, the communities do not fit in
relations, these must contain territories

As nobody cares, as I am presently involved in Brussels modifications,
and as I know boundaries well, I can do that:

- add a 4th territory aka community for Brussels.
The only problem is how to name it.
The three territories are called:

They should normally not be called territories, but I'm not going to
start a misunderstood revolution.

Brussels' Community? Bilingual Community?

I know this is a complex street that starts as Pierstraat in
Reet/Rumst in the east ,...

I know it's a complex country that starts as Pierstraat in the west,
... :-)

Cheers,
Cordialement,

André.

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Re: [OSM-talk-be] driving way

2013-10-26 Thread Gerard Vanderveken


Not clear what exact is the situation and what the role of which street is.
-1-
I suppose that at the blocked entrance at the south side of the street, 
there wil be some gate or narrowing, what will be indicated with eg sign 
C1 and F19.
I suggest you take there a little segment of 5 to 20 m long and 
designate that for one way.

-2-
If it is a problem that coming from one direction, you can not enter a 
street, such as in the case with a left turn that would you make a 
forbidden crossing of the white line in the middle of the street, then 
you need to set up a restriction relation 
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Relation:restriction.

(The roadsegments need to split at the crossing. )

Regards,
Gerard.

Bart Vanherck wrote:

In Geel, there will be changes from next week onwards with the 
circulation.
I will update that next week, because the changes will start from 1 
nov onwards.

But that's not the problem.

One of the issues I have is that in one street there can be driven on 
both sides. But if you want to enter that street en come from the 
south side, you are not allowed to enter the street. If you come from 
other directions you are allowed.


How can I map that? There will be sign C31 on one side the other side not.

(http://www.wegcode.be/wetteksten/secties/mb/mb-111076/864-hs2art9)

Regards,

Bart



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Re: [OSM-talk-be] GPX Track layer in JOSM

2013-10-25 Thread Gerard Vanderveken


Why to use this?

It is already present in the predefined backgrounds 
http://josm.openstreetmap.de/wiki/Help/Preferences/Imagery.
Setup: edit - preferences- wms/tms - the one before public 
transportation - activate - ok

Use: imagery - openstreetmap gps traces

Regards,
Gerard.

Glenn Plas wrote:


On 2013-10-25 13:26, Ben Abelshausen wrote:



On Fri, Oct 25, 2013 at 12:53 PM, Marc Gemis marc.ge...@gmail.com 
mailto:marc.ge...@gmail.com wrote:


The following url seems to work:

tms:http://{switch:a,b,c}.gps-tile.openstreetmap.org/lines/{zoom}/{x}/{y}
http://gps-tile.openstreetmap.org/lines/%7Bzoom%7D/%7Bx%7D/%7By%7D


Nice! :-)



Very nice.   I also see I've made one too many GPS tracks of the same 
road ,  my laptop fans just went nuts opening this layer.


tx Marc



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Re: [OSM-talk-be] wandelnetwerk zuid-dijleland, bedankt Jo

2012-08-22 Thread Gerard Vanderveken


Jo,

Bedankt om deze diskussie, net als zoveel andere maar weer eens in de 
kiem te smoren, door iedereen voor voldongen feiten te zetten.

.
Door je massa-edit met je scripts slaag je er telkens weer in gebruikers 
te ontmoedigen, die hun werk zien verloren gaan.

Hiermee hou je ook alle vooruitgang tegen.

Tevens heb je nu 321 relaties onbruikbaar gemaakt voor Potlach en de 
Openstreetmap site.
Dit was ook reeds het geval met diverse fietsnetwerken, waarbij ook een 
heleboel gegevens werden vernietigd, want niet komform met je script.


Tevens zijn alle knooppuntfietsroutes met een eindpunt op meerdere 
lokaties onbruikbaar geworden om een gpx van te genereren door het 
gebruik van 'staarten'.


Nogmaals bedankt voor deze fuckups!

Gerard

Jo wrote:

Het wandelnetwerk Zuid-Dijleland is nu conform de wiki en hoe de rest 
van de wandelnetwerken in Vlaanderen gemapt werden.


Dus overal route=foot, geen name en geen ref. Welke knooppunten met 
elkaar verbonden worden staat in de note tag, zonder voorloopnul.


Ik vind die voorloopnul voor de fietsnetwerken wel mooier, maar in 
Limburg en de Hoge Venen zou 'k er nu ook geen 2 gaan zetten. Ik heb 
gisterenavond ook nog 2 fietsnetwerken nagekeken en daar ook enkele 
ref-tags moeten weghalen.


Jo



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Re: [OSM-talk-be] wandelnetwerk zuid-dijleland

2012-08-21 Thread Gerard Vanderveken

Het is beter de Wiki aan te passen.

Nu er overal wandelroutes opduiken is er het probleem om op de kaart te
kunnen zien tot welk netwerk een segment behoort.

http://hiking.lonvia.de/en/?zoom=13lat=50.78801lon=4.58032
http://hiking.lonvia.de/en/?zoom=14lat=50.79127lon=4.13863

Ook in de online Potlach editor of het Openstreetmap overzicht wordt
anders alleen een relatienummer getoond wat de zaak zeer
onoverzichtelijk maakt en je niet kan zien wat de relatie is waartoe bvb
een weg behoort..

Vergelijk Zuid-Dijleland met Westhoek
http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/relation/1641610
http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/relation/2099497

Ook voor buslijnen staat er in de Wiki nog een door de praktijk
achterhaalde tekst om de busroutes geen naam te geven.

mvg
Gerard.

Sander Deryckere wrote:

Het is gepaster om de routes zelf aan te passen ipv de wiki. Er is
overeen gekomen dat de routes geen referentie en geen naam hebben.
Enkel de knooppunten hebben een referentie.

Dus zijn dergelijke routes met een referentie of naam gewoon verkeerd.

Groeten,
Sander

Op 21 augustus 2012 10:37 schreef Ivo De Broeck
ivo.debro...@gmail.com mailto:ivo.debro...@gmail.com het volgende:

Op
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/WikiProject_Belgium/Conventions/Walking_Routes#Walking_node_networks
vraagt men name en ref NIET in te vullen.
Ik zie op verschillende plaatsen ref = ZD en name ZD 1x-9x staan.

Ook staat in de relatie route=foot OF route=hiking.
Kan iemand mij duidelijkheid geven hierover (en eventueel de tekst
op de wiki aanpassen)?

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Re: [OSM-talk-be] newbie

2012-08-21 Thread Gerard Vanderveken


Als ik naar de geschiedenis van de weg kijk
http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/23644375/history
vraag ik me af, waarom er iets aan veranderd moest worden aan versie 5
want in versie 4 staat reeds als opmerking
Comment: veldweg is nu verhard in beton + verbinding van tertiary roads
Dus versie 5 was up to date?

Jij hebt er in je laatste versie een unclassified road van gemaakt, wat 
betekent dat het nu een ordinaire straat zou zijn waar ook auto's enz. 
rijden, terwijl het tervoren alleen maar een pad voor fietsers en 
voetgangers was. Dat kan korrekt of fout zijn naargelang wat nu precies 
aan verkeer is toegelaten op deze weg en hoe breed hij nu is.
Je hebt om tot dit resultaat te komen wel heel wat versies en varianten 
gemaakt, wat mij terug brengt tot mijn eerste vraag.


Ik ben er vorig jaar nog gepasseerd, maar ik zie niet zo dadelijk de weg 
voor me.

Er heeft wel iemand onterecht de 2 routesegmenten weer aan mekaar geplakt.
http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=50.91527lon=4.57187zoom=16layers=Mrelation=71268

Ik zoek dat laatste nog later uit.
mvg
Gerard


Johan Degreef wrote:


Beste,
 
ik heb me onlangs geregistreerd om af en toe een aanpassing in mijn 
buurt te doen op OSM. ik gebruik al een tijdje de openfietsmap.nl 
http://openfietsmap.nl.
 
Kan iemand bevestigen of ik deze weg correct heb aangepast.

http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/changeset/12791625
 
het was een aardeweggetje en is nu gebetonneerd.
 
dank u, johan




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Re: [OSM-talk-be] wandelnetwerk zuid-dijleland

2012-08-21 Thread Gerard Vanderveken

De twee zijn/waren synoniemen, maar eigenlijk vind ik foot meer aangewezen.
Maar foot lijkt nu wat meer deprecated te zijn in de Wiki, zodat hiking
de terechte keuze is.

http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Relation:route#Tags

Misschien moet okok de belgische Wiki worden aangepast
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/WikiProject_Belgium/Conventions/Walking_Routes

Alhoewel ik bij hiking toch meer aan trektochten denk met rugzak en
tent, dan wandelen ...

mvg
Gerard.

Jo wrote:

Zo, nu staan ze allemaal op route=hiking... Oorspronkelijk was de
conventie route=foot. Geen idee wanneer dat veranderd geraakt is.

Op 21 augustus 2012 11:45 schreef Ivo De Broeck
ivo.debro...@gmail.com mailto:ivo.debro...@gmail.com het volgende:

Potlach heeft ook voordelen. Hij zet automatisch route=hiking (ipv
bv foot). Potlach is IMHO juist een editor die een beetje orde
brengt in de verschillende tags. Maar daar ging deze tread niet over.

Vraag 1: Moet de wiki aangepast worden (of is het VERBODEN ref en
name in te vullen)
Vraag 2: Wat kan/mag ingevuld bij name en ref (soms is dat ZD,
soms ZD 1x-9x, soms Wandelnetwerk Zuid-Dijleland)

Op 21 augustus 2012 11:30 schreef Jo winfi...@gmail.com
mailto:winfi...@gmail.com het volgende:

Ik heb al meermaals aan Richard gevraagd om in Potlatch de
note tag weer te geven voor onze rcn en rwn-routerelaties.
Maar de ontwikkelaars van Potlatch blijven dit weigeren.
Misschien kan jij ook eens je stem laten horen:

https://trac.openstreetmap.org/ticket/4017

Al denk ik niet dat het nog enig effect zal hebben. We taggen
echter noch voor de renderer, noch voor de router en ook niet
voor de editor.

Als ik jou was, dan stapte ik over op JOSM. Die is sowieso
veel handiger als je verder gevorderde zaken gaat doen, zoals
het werken met relaties.

mvg,

Op 21 augustus 2012 11:13 schreef Ivo De Broeck
ivo.debro...@gmail.com mailto:ivo.debro...@gmail.com het
volgende:

OK, maar er zijn 2 redenen waarom ik de vraag stelde:

1) in 99% van de gevallen werd (door anderen) de naam
en/of referentie wel ingevuld.
2) Ik gebruik potlach2. Bij het maken van een nieuwe
relatie vraagt hij als het ware om een naam een referentie
te geven. Ik dat geval geeft hij ook duidelijk aan over
welke relatie het gaat bv ZD 71-72 (zie de zojuist
ingevoerde relatie
op
http://www.openstreetmap.org/edit?lat=50.81877lon=4.74388zoom=17
http://www.openstreetmap.org/edit?lat=50.81877lon=4.74388zoom=17
)
Potlach genereert de relatie automatisch met route=hiking
dus dat is wel OK. De note is NIET zichtbaar inPotlach
(toch niet in de simpele weergave)

Ik vraag me dus af of het invullen van de ref MOET
verboden worden?

Op 21 augustus 2012 10:48 schreef Sander Deryckere
sander...@gmail.com mailto:sander...@gmail.com het
volgende:

Het is gepaster om de routes zelf aan te passen ipv de
wiki. Er is overeen gekomen dat de routes geen
referentie en geen naam hebben. Enkel de knooppunten
hebben een referentie.

Dus zijn dergelijke routes met een referentie of naam
gewoon verkeerd.

Groeten,
Sander

Op 21 augustus 2012 10:37 schreef Ivo De Broeck
ivo.debro...@gmail.com
mailto:ivo.debro...@gmail.com het volgende:

Op
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/WikiProject_Belgium/Conventions/Walking_Routes#Walking_node_networks
vraagt men name en ref NIET in te vullen.
Ik zie op verschillende plaatsen ref = ZD en name

ZD 1x-9x staan. Ook staat in de relatie route=foot
OF route=hiking.
Kan iemand mij duidelijkheid geven hierover (en
eventueel de tekst op de wiki aanpassen)?

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Gsm +32 486 17 61 13 tel:%2B32%20486%2017%2061%2013

Re: [OSM-talk-be] newbie

2012-08-21 Thread Gerard Vanderveken


Dat is helemaal niet erg, je bent meer dan welkom!

Als een weg uit verschillende segmenten bestaat heeft dat zijn reden.
Er kunnen verschillende eigenschappen zijn bvb snelheidsbeperking, 
verharding
Of soms iets moeilijker op te merken zoals in dit geval het behoren tot 
verschillende relaties  in volge het passeren van een wandelroute over 
een gedeelte van de weg.


Info is te vinden op
Belgisch projekt
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/WikiProject_Belgium
zie vooral conventions en subprojects

Beginners guide
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Beginners_Guide_1.3
partieel vertaald
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/NL:Beginners%27_guide

Veel leesplezier
mvg
Gerard.

Johan Degreef wrote:


zoals ik al aangaf, ik ben een beginner.
 
de segmenten heb ik aan elkaar geplakt omdat in de praktijk de weg 1 
geheel is en dezelfde ondergrond en met dezelfde eigenschappen. Waarom 
zou die dan uit 3 segmenten moeten bestaan? De weg is ook in 1 maal 
volledig gebetonneerd.
 
Verder merk ik ook al dat verschillende personen mij verschillende 
raad geven en dat het zo moeilijk wordt om het taggen correct aan te 
leren. kan iemand mijn een linkje bezorgen waarop ik moet letten?
 
dank u, johan


Op 21 augustus 2012 12:19 schreef Gerard Vanderveken g...@ghia.eu 
mailto:g...@ghia.eu het volgende:


Als ik naar de geschiedenis van de weg kijk
http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/23644375/history
vraag ik me af, waarom er iets aan veranderd moest worden aan versie 5
want in versie 4 staat reeds als opmerking
Comment: veldweg is nu verhard in beton + verbinding van tertiary
roads
Dus versie 5 was up to date?

Jij hebt er in je laatste versie een unclassified road van
gemaakt, wat betekent dat het nu een ordinaire straat zou zijn
waar ook auto's enz. rijden, terwijl het tervoren alleen maar een
pad voor fietsers en voetgangers was. Dat kan korrekt of fout zijn
naargelang wat nu precies aan verkeer is toegelaten op deze weg en
hoe breed hij nu is.
Je hebt om tot dit resultaat te komen wel heel wat versies en
varianten gemaakt, wat mij terug brengt tot mijn eerste vraag.

Ik ben er vorig jaar nog gepasseerd, maar ik zie niet zo dadelijk
de weg voor me.
Er heeft wel iemand onterecht de 2 routesegmenten weer aan mekaar
geplakt.

http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=50.91527lon=4.57187zoom=16layers=Mrelation=71268

http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=50.91527lon=4.57187zoom=16layers=Mrelation=71268

Ik zoek dat laatste nog later uit.
mvg
Gerard


Johan Degreef wrote:


Beste,
 
ik heb me onlangs geregistreerd om af en toe een aanpassing in

mijn buurt te doen op OSM. ik gebruik al een tijdje de
openfietsmap.nl http://openfietsmap.nl/.
 
Kan iemand bevestigen of ik deze weg correct heb aangepast.

http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/changeset/12791625
 
het was een aardeweggetje en is nu gebetonneerd.
 
dank u, johan




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Re: [OSM-talk-be] newbie

2012-08-21 Thread Gerard Vanderveken

Uit een ander gedeelte van de diskussie, begreep ik dat de weg ook voor 
landbouwvoertuigen dient.

highway=track is dan meer aangewezen
Uit de versie history blijkt dat het oorspronkelijk ook zo was tot 
kennyM in V4 naar aanleidng van de betonnering er surface=paved, maar 
ook  highway=path van maakte.

http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/23644375/history
Bij de tracks kan je wel de beton aangeven wat ook een andere 
voorstelling geeft op de kaart.

http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:tracktype?uselang=en-US

mvg
Gerard.

Jo wrote:

Die stippellijn geeft niet aan dat het onverhard is, voor zover ik 
weet. Ik heb er een highway=path van gemaakt en die worden als 
stippellijn voorgesteld. Ik weet niet precies waarom de surface tag 
verdwenen was, maar dat gaat geen verschil maken voor de standaard 
Mapnikweergave.


Jo


Op 21 augustus 2012 12:42 schreef Johan Degreef jdg...@gmail.com 
mailto:jdg...@gmail.com het volgende:


nog een vraagje,
 
als ik de weg nu terug bekijk, zie ik weer de oude stippelijn wat

toch op onverhard wijst? De weg (2 segmenten) zijn volledig in beton.
 
Johan


Op 21 augustus 2012 12:33 schreef Jo winfi...@gmail.com
mailto:winfi...@gmail.com het volgende:

Gewoonlijk is het zo, dat als wegen gesplitst zijn, dat daar
dan een goede reden voor is. Het gaat 'm daarbij niet enkel om
de tags, maar vaak ook om lidmaatschap bij relaties.


Ik moet regelmatig een script laten lopen dat nakijkt of de
routerelaties niet stukgemaakt werden door goedbedoelende
beginners zoals jij. :-)

Ik heb de wandelroute die slechts een deel van dat pad
gebruikte weer hersteld. Ik heb meteen ook alle andere
probleempjes op die route gecorrigeerd, zodat het weer een
continue opeenvolging van wegen is geworden.

Ik heb ook de tags aangepast. Best nog even gaan kijken.

Groeten,

Jo


Op 21 augustus 2012 12:13 schreef Johan Degreef
jdg...@gmail.com mailto:jdg...@gmail.com het volgende:

zoals ik al aangaf, ik ben een beginner.
 
de segmenten heb ik aan elkaar geplakt omdat in de

praktijk de weg 1 geheel is en dezelfde ondergrond en met
dezelfde eigenschappen. Waarom zou die dan uit 3 segmenten
moeten bestaan? De weg is ook in 1 maal volledig gebetonneerd.
 
Verder merk ik ook al dat verschillende personen mij

verschillende raad geven en dat het zo moeilijk wordt om
het taggen correct aan te leren. kan iemand mijn een
linkje bezorgen waarop ik moet letten?
 
dank u, johan


Op 21 augustus 2012 12:19 schreef Gerard Vanderveken
g...@ghia.eu mailto:g...@ghia.eu het volgende:

Als ik naar de geschiedenis van de weg kijk
http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/23644375/history
vraag ik me af, waarom er iets aan veranderd moest
worden aan versie 5
want in versie 4 staat reeds als opmerking
Comment: veldweg is nu verhard in beton + verbinding
van tertiary roads
Dus versie 5 was up to date?

Jij hebt er in je laatste versie een unclassified road
van gemaakt, wat betekent dat het nu een ordinaire
straat zou zijn waar ook auto's enz. rijden, terwijl
het tervoren alleen maar een pad voor fietsers en
voetgangers was. Dat kan korrekt of fout zijn
naargelang wat nu precies aan verkeer is toegelaten op
deze weg en hoe breed hij nu is.
Je hebt om tot dit resultaat te komen wel heel wat
versies en varianten gemaakt, wat mij terug brengt tot
mijn eerste vraag.

Ik ben er vorig jaar nog gepasseerd, maar ik zie niet
zo dadelijk de weg voor me.
Er heeft wel iemand onterecht de 2 routesegmenten weer
aan mekaar geplakt.

http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=50.91527lon=4.57187zoom=16layers=Mrelation=71268

http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=50.91527lon=4.57187zoom=16layers=Mrelation=71268

Ik zoek dat laatste nog later uit.
mvg
Gerard


Johan Degreef wrote:


Beste,
 
ik heb me onlangs geregistreerd om af en toe een

aanpassing in mijn buurt te doen op OSM. ik gebruik
al een tijdje de openfietsmap.nl
http://openfietsmap.nl/.
 
Kan iemand bevestigen of ik deze weg correct heb

aangepast.
http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/changeset/12791625
 
het was een aardeweggetje en

Re: [OSM-talk-be] wandelnetwerk zuid-dijleland

2012-08-21 Thread Gerard Vanderveken


+1

De voorloopnul is niet nodig, dus ZD 1-34
Gewoon het nummer zoals aangeduid op de bordjes.
Bij wandelnetwerken worden meestal tot 3 cijfers gebruikt en dan is 001 
ook weer zwaar overdreven.


België en Nederland zijn de enigen die de note-tag propageren, anderen 
gebruiken gewoon de name-tag.


http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Route#Walking_routes_.28also_hiking_and_pilgrimage.29

name=*
Meaningful route name suitable for identifying this route.

http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/DE:Relation:route#Wanderwege

name http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/DE:Key:name=* 	Text 
empfohlen, notwendig für OSMC Karte 
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/DE:OSMC_Reitkarte 	Name des 
Wanderweges z.B. Paul-Pfinzing-Weg


alternativ Start- und Zielpunkt z.B. Happurg-Lauterhofen
alternativ Region und Wegnummer z.B. Rommelsried Rundweg Nr.4
Reine Buchstaben-Zahl-Kombinationen sind kein eindeutiges 
Identifikationsmerkmal.




mvg
Gerard


Sander Deryckere wrote:



Wat dient volgens jullie (al of niet) ingevuld bij name en ref

Ten eerste moet de referentie of naam een route identificeren (met een 
zekere uniciteit)


Name lijkt me sowieso eigenaardig, er zijn maar weinig namen die een 
nummer bevatten, en ik zie niet in hoe je een route kan identificeren 
zonder knoop nummers.


Dus blijft er over, de ref tag. Die kan het netwerk bevatten of niet. 
Dan zijn er de volgende mogelijkheden:


ZD 01-12
ZD 1-12
01-12
1-12

De eerste twee eisen dat we een conventie afspreken ivm afkortingen 
voor alle knooppunt netwerken (een lijst maken op de Wiki).

Vb.
Zuid Dijleland - ZD
Ieperboog - IB
Heuvelland - HL
Westkust - WK
...

Maar wat belangrijker is, is consistentie:

* Nederlandse wandelknooppunten zijn er volgens hetzelfde systeem,
  dus moet ook met de Nederlanders overlegd worden (zij gebruiken
  momenteel hetzelfde systeem als wij, met de note=* tag)
* Wandelknooppunten en fietsknooppunten moeten een zelfde tagging
  volgen.

Groeten,
Sander



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Re: [OSM-talk-be] Just subsribed to OSM-be

2012-08-17 Thread Gerard Vanderveken


See beginners guide for overview of GPS devices.
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Beginners_Guide_1.1.1
Mind that the 'Snap to road' or 'Lock on road' option can be switched OFF!!!

Success!
Gerard


Julien Minet wrote:


Hi all,

I know OSM for a long time but so far I could not contribute to this 
project. As I would have more time from now, I'd be glad to contribute 
to mapping! I'm planning to get a GPS and make some mapping, 
especially in my poorly-mapped area: Province du Luxembourg, and other 
places, mainly in Wallonie.   

By the way, thanks to my last job, I know some friends who are now 
working in the new (2 years old) cellule géomatique from the 
Walloon government. I already told them many times about OSM and they 
could be helpful in the process of making free some GIS data or at 
least to get some information about the inside job of the 
administration... I also worked a lot on GIS and webmapping apps using 
OpenLayers, among others. 


Hope to contribute and see you soon!

Julien Minet


PS: As I'm just looking for a OSM-friendly GPS, any hints about the 
choice of the device and/or some second-hand markets are welcome!




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Re: [OSM-talk-be] Using the tag place=neighbourhood

2012-06-24 Thread Gerard Vanderveken


Hi,

I woukld not change it
place=hamlet. fits fine for Mariakerke
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/NL:Map_Features#Plaats_.28place.29
Hamlets typically do have a church and form a separate community.
suburbs are districts in cities, while neighbourhoods are more  a group 
of rural isolated  houses (all without churches)

That's what I think of it.
Regards,
Gerard.

Sander Deryckere wrote:


Hi,

I'm busy drawing and correcting boundaries in W-VL. And for Oostende, 
I have a strange issue (http://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oostende).


The deelgemeenten of Oostende are Zandvoorde and Stene (as those are 
the only ones that were still independent before the fusion of the 
70's). The hamlet Raversijde used to be part of Middelkerke, and it's 
still rather separated from the main centre of Oostende.


But Mariakerke was completely merged with Oostende in 1899 (so it 
can't be considered as a deelgemeente). Because it isn't a 
deelgemeente, this automatically means it should get the tag 
place=hamlet. This while Mariakerke has over 10.000 inhabitants, so it 
should deserve a title place=town when it wasn't merged so soon.


http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/WikiProject_Belgium/Conventions/Places

I would like to use the tag place=neigbourhood for Mariakerke.

What do you think about the following definition?

When the place has the name of a municipality or a deelgemeente, the 
definitions stay as they are


When the place doesn't have the name of a municipality or 
deelgemeente, the tags place=hamlet and place=neighbourhood are used


place=hamlet is used when the residential area is clearly separated 
from other residential areas.
place=neighbourhood is used when the residential area is part of the 
residential area of a city, town or village.


This follows my feeling about a hamlet being something rural, while a 
neighbourhood is part of a bigger residential area. And it also 
follows the international conventions (more or less) on the wiki: 
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Place


Regards,
Sander



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Re: [OSM-talk-be] Chantiers werken in Bxl

2012-06-20 Thread Gerard Vanderveken


Intended use of highway=construction is when a new road is constructed on a 
place where no road was before.

Tagging like this, without changing the existing tags
highway=primary
ref=R32
construction=minor
constriction:start=2012-08-01
construction:end=2012-09-30
has the advantage that construction tags can be removed by a script, 
checking the end date.
But, as Ben said, do not map road works, because mosttimes people forget 
to change at the end of the works.


Regards,
Gerard.

Ben Laenen wrote:

General consensus is to not tag roads for roadworks (like other temporary 
structures). Except in the cases where they will take a lot of time and where 
someone will follow up closely so everything will be updated soon enough in 
OSM.


Everything else should stay in a database outside of OSM, just like one would 
do traffic information.


So, for example a road closed for 2 months: not enough for tagging it 
highway=construction.


Greetings
Ben


On Wednesday 20 June 2012 10:07:06 Nicolas Pettiaux wrote:
 


hello the list,

Wouldnt it be interesting to integrate the werken / chantiers in OSM

See
http://www.bruxellesmobilite.irisnet.be/news/les-grands-chantiers-de-lete/

I bet it would help make OSM the most online routing map for Brussels.

Ideas, opinions, faisability ?

The data are online, mostly in an awkrard pdf !

Regards,

Nicolas
   



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Re: [OSM-talk-be] free cycle journey planner

2012-05-18 Thread Gerard Vanderveken


Hi,

You can use http://www.openrouteservice.org/

It can make bicycle routes with several options to suit your needs  
(shortest, mtb, race, safe, on cycleways).


Regards,
Gerard.

Nicolas Pettiaux wrote:


Hello,

There has been some discussion recently about cycleways on the list.

I have recently come across the free cycle journey planner
http://www.camcycle.org.uk/map/journey/ [1] and I dream to have such a
tool available in the Region of Brussels where I live.

There is a long way to go to have such a tool, based on free data,
collected and stored on openstreetmap, and free software tools, but
working altogether, maybe with the help of organization such as
http://www.provelo.org/ (in English, French and Dutch),
http://www.gracq.org/ (in French) and http://www.fietsersbond.be/ (in
Dutch) and their respective members and partners, and also the Region
itself, we could tend towards such a goal.

We could also maybe get some support from Brigitte Grouwels, Ministre
chargée des Travaux Publics et des Transports and Bruno De Lille,
Secrétaire d’État en charge de la Mobilité


From what I have received as info from Gracq in Brussels recently,

there would be little effort currently in development, even if they
have heard of the will by some Region officials to do something.

There is http://www.bruxellesmobilite.irisnet.be/velo/ that already
contains quite a number of information but not enough I think to get
the same as [1].

Does any of you know if this information would be freely available for
an easy import ins OSM (after the usual check) ?

I write this mail to get information by you about any initiative that
you would know in any other part of Belgium, Flanders or Wallonie,
that would go in the same direction

Voor Vlaanderen, I have found http://www.fietsnet.be/, apparently
based on proprietary tools and data, but that is not yet functionnaly
equivalent to [1].

I have seen http://www.opencyclemap.org/ show that in Belgium there
are many more routes described in Vlaanderen than in Wallonie and in
Brussels, another good start.

The map that is sold by Gracq for 1 € could also be used, if we are
allowed, as a starting point.

Any idea, info, question, discussion welcome.

Thanks

 




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Re: [OSM-talk-be] Tagging Questions

2012-04-19 Thread Gerard Vanderveken




Sander Deryckere wrote:




Op 17 april 2012 12:40 schreef Marc Gemis marc.ge...@gmail.com 
mailto:marc.ge...@gmail.com het volgende:


Hi all,

I have a few tagging questions

* How do I tag a 'Feestzaal/Sale de fête' that is part of a
pub/restaurant ? usually it has a different name than the
restaurant/pub


http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:amenity%3Dcommunity_centre
You could add an operator= tag to identify the place where to go for 
renting it, eg the pub/restaurant near by.

Also website= may informative to the fact it is not a'government' building




As a point in the restaurant building? Just as you would map 
individual  shops in a shopping center.


* How do I tag a place that rents rooms for conferences, and other
activities ? e.g. http://www.roosendael.be


I don't know that one, maybe with the proposed feature rental: 
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/rental ?



http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/Conference_Centre
mvg
Gerard




regards

m

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Re: [OSM-talk-be] Mapping Taverne, Cafe, etc.

2011-12-02 Thread Gerard Vanderveken


amenity=tavern is also possible
or
amenity=restaurant with type=tavern
But I would like to have it added on the list of official amenity tags 
as it is indeed a separate type..

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tavern
Regards,
Gerard.

Sander Deryckere wrote:

I tag a taverne as amenity=cafe, since that's the closest tag to 
describe what it is (quiet place, selling coffees, other drinks and 
some food). For what we call café en Belgium, I use amenity=pub (as 
they sell less coffees and food, but more alcoholic drinks). If it's 
not a quiet place, and there is absolutely no food available, you can 
also use amenity=bar.


But I have bigger problems with fritures. I tag them as 
amenity=restaurant or amenity=fast_food (resp for fritures that focus 
on sitting there to eat, or take-away fritures), appended with a tag 
cuisine=friture. I don't know if that's a good way of tagging.


regards,
Sander

2011/12/2 Marc Gemis marc.ge...@gmail.com mailto:marc.ge...@gmail.com

Hello,

How do we map the followings amenities in Belgium ?

- Taverne   -- they serve more than only snacks or light meals
(more restaurant-like), but they also serve (only) drinks,
pancakes, etc (more  cafe-like -- i.e. as intended by the
amenity=cafe tag).  
- Cafe -- What I mean here is a cafe not selling snacks (beside

perhaps chips or any other non-prepared food) (Bruin-cafe)

thanks in advance

m.

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Re: [OSM-talk-be] Fwd: [OSM-talk-fr] StreetView?

2011-11-24 Thread Gerard Vanderveken


People tend to judge the book by the cover and not by the content.
In this respect OSM is no match to StreetView. So, we should not try to 
profilate us against it.
It will only cause disbelief  and leaves OSM with a stamp of 
inferiority, because there is not the bling bling of StreetView.


There are other opportunities, which are more suitable to get attention  
for OSM and then we can do it with our strong points.
One example is trage wegen / voies lentes, which get much attention in 
many villages and its councels these days. There we can offer advanced 
mapping en cartography.


If you can't win, don't go to the battle.

Ben Abelshausen wrote:


I think you are right in saying that we should not try to force the issue.

On Thu, Nov 24, 2011 at 3:04 PM, Sander Deryckere sander...@gmail.com 
mailto:sander...@gmail.com wrote:


Sorry to go off topic, but...

2011/11/24 Ben Abelshausen ben.abelshau...@gmail.com
mailto:ben.abelshau...@gmail.com

So I don't think we should react. We should just spread
the word of OSM on a continuous base. Apart from that, if
OSM would suddenly get in the big media, we would also
have a lot of problems with training newbies. The best
system is that of continuous growth, where the older
generation can teach the newer generation. And I'm not
even talking about vandalism here.


I don't think a lot of new users should scare us into not
seeking more visibility for the project.  I think it would be
a very good thing to get more new users involved!

OSM is the best mapping project and free as in free speech!
Everybody should know this...


We should not be scared of seeking visibility,  I know OSM can
handle a lot of new users, and making us visible is also a way to
get a  steady growth. But we should not demand the media to give
us the attention. When we grow bigger, the media will report about
OSM because we're more interesting, and we will have enough
man-power to handle everything. 


If you disrupt that steady process, and you really demand stuff
through laws and lawsuits, I don't think it would end very well.

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Re: [OSM-talk-be] Fietsknooppuntennetwerken, hun complexiteit en egrijpelijke misverstanden eromheen

2011-11-24 Thread Gerard Vanderveken

Ik vind het hele gedoe met die tentakels een zeer hoog absurdistan 
gehalte hebben.
Een route is simpelweg een aaneenschakeling van wegen tussen 2 punten: 
beginpunt A en eindpunt B.
Een speciaal geval is wanneer A en B hetzelfde punt zijn, dan heb je een 
omloop.
Dat het trajekt van A naar B verschillend kan zijn van het trajekt van B 
naar A is al genoeg komplikatie, maar daar zijn de forward en backward 
rollen voor.


Maar wanneer je in 1 route 3 begin- en 3 eindpunten begint te mappen en 
bovendien bestaan er soms ook nog eens verschillende paden voor de heen- 
en terugweg, dan ben je volgens mij toch niet goed bezig.  Eigenlijk 
prop je dan een tiental routes in 1 relatie.


Met zo'n relatie kan je echt niks aanvangen.  Daar kan je geen GPX of 
routing mee samenstellen zonder alle deelnemende straten te gaan 
analyseren en op die set een eigen routing te gaan toepassen om te zien 
welke wegen moeten behouden of uitgesloten worden.


Dan getuigt de aanpak op fietsnet.be toch wel van een meer 
realistischer  en pragmatischer kijk op de dingen, die dan ook praktisch 
en makkelijk bruikbaar is.

- Apart houden waar het moet, zie het hier onder  aangehaalde voorbeeld:
http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=51.069lon=4.42439zoom=15layers=Crelation=9754
Op fietsnet zijn er 2 losse routes tussen de 3 in lijn liggende knopen 
met nr 52 en ook 1 tussen de 2 knooppunten 51.

- Samenvoegen waar het kan: vb knooppunt 90 wat lager op de Zenne.
http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=51.03433lon=4.42266zoom=16layers=Crelation=9754
Bij fietsnet is er maar 1 knoop en die ligt gewoon midden op de brug.
(Hier onbreekt blijkbaar in OSM wel nog de verbinding tussen de 2 knopen 
nr 90 over de daar aanwezige voetgangers- (+fietsers-?)brug.)


Wanneer twee of drie knoopunten zeer kort bij mekaar liggen, kies gewoon 
ergens 1 punt en maak dat het knooppunt.

Bvb op het middenbeen van een T of een arbitraire arm op een rondpunt.
Zoals hier
http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=51.15636lon=4.2292zoom=17layers=Crelation=9754
Leid daarna alle routes van de nabuurpunten naar dat punt. Want eigelijk 
is er ook maar een knooppunt.
Dat de resulterende aaneengeschakelde routes hierdoor een kleine krul 
kunnen bevatten vind ik dan nog niet eens zo erg. Die omweg is de prijs 
die de mensen betalen, die blindelings hun GPS volgen zonder zelf maar 
een poging te doen van op de bordjes te letten.
Alternatief is dat je voor mikro-mapping gaat en alle 'losse' 
knooppunten met hetzelfde nummer gaat mappen, maar dan dien je ook voor 
deze kort bij elkaar liggende punten de aparte routetjes te worden 
voorzien. In het  voorbeeld van knoop 98 worden dat dan 3 aparte 
routetjes (er zijn blijkbaar geen eenrichtingsbaantjes of verplichte 
rijrichtingen bij) elk op hun zijde van de driehoek.


Ik weet dat ik nogal skeptisch was tegen de aanpak van Polyglot die het 
eerst op die wijze implementeerde, vooral skeptisch dan op de zin ervan. 
Is zo'n fijn detail niet overdreven of wel nodig?
Dat gevoel heb ik nog steeds, maar als er dan toch meerdere knopen voor 
1 nummer gemapt worden, dan is het voor mij de enige goede manier en 
zeker stukken beter dan die tentakels.

Gewoon een waardeloos systeem!
Op die manier wordt OSM nooit praktisch bruikbaar om sites a la fietsnet 
op te zetten.


Ook met de definities voor de rollen forward en backward heb ik het 
moeilijk. Die zijn voor mij ook absurd en zorgen enkel voor komplikatie 
zonder echt iets toe te voegen.
Ik heb ook de indruk dat het dateert uit de tijd dat er nog geen 
volgorde kon worden gegeven (of behouden worden) aan de leden in een 
relatie.


Wat betekent een rol hebben in een relatie?  Het betekent dat je als 
element in een relatie deelneemt, maar niet op dezelfde wijze als een 
ander element.
Een 'way' in een gebied kan zowel een stuk van de buitenkant of van een 
enclave zijn. Daar geeft de rol outer of inner perfekt weer wat een 
bepaalde way komt doen in de relatie.
Voor een route die in principe zowel van A naar B als van B naar A kan 
gevolgd worden, is het te volgen pad voor heen en terug meestal gelijk.
Wanneer er eenrichtingswegen inzitten ontstaat er een verschillend pad  
voor die heen- en terugweg. Er zitten dus drie verschillende wegen in de 
relatie. Wegen die een rol spelen voor beide richtingen, of alleen in de 
heen-, of in de terugrichting worden gebruikt. Logischerwijs krijgt de 
heenrichting van A naar B de rol forward en de terugweg van B naar A 
backward. Een lege rol is niets speciaals en daar wordt de weg in beide 
richtingen gebruikt.  Heel simpel.
Moet je een route  in een GPX gieten neem je gewoon de leden met een 
lege rol, aangevuld met de leden met of de rol  forward voor de 
heenrichting, of de rol backward voor de andere richting. Ook heel 
simpel uit te sorteren en gemakkelijk.


Maar het door de Wiki voorgestelde systeem heeft gemeend te moeten 
rekening houden met de richting van de onderliggende weg en daar dan een 
rol aan toe te kennen.


If a route should only be

Re: [OSM-talk-be] Fwd: [OSM-talk-fr] StreetView?

2011-11-23 Thread Gerard Vanderveken


Don't rely on the streetnames and housenumbers indicated by Google.
I was only in my second street and detected a totally wrong street name.
The housenumbers were as indicated approximative and way off.

The viewpoints of Google are with distances of 20 m plus and so many 
signs and even housenumbers (when houses are not at the street border) 
are not readable on the photo.

Also Polyglot will be out of luck for decoding sign plates at the bus stops.

As 2012 is an election year for the villages, many streets are and will 
be  in the works, so even the appearance (surface, cycleways) of the 
streets may already be or will be changed since the registration.

Use the derived info with care.
When you see anomalies or big differences with OSM, plan a survey at the 
place.

The streetview can help you with the preparation at what to look out for.

Regards,
Gerard.


eMerzh wrote:


For those who don't read the FR list,  here an answer... (Sorry it's
in french...)

Tl;DR == Ok to take some info once in a while (street names  co) but
not systematically ;  (said  by a google employee
http://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk/2011-April/057473.html )



-- Forwarded message --
From: Pieren pier...@gmail.com
Date: 2011/11/23
Subject: Re: [OSM-talk-fr] StreetView?
To: Discussions sur OSM en français talk...@openstreetmap.org


2011/11/23 eMerzh merz...@gmail.com:
 


Bien évidemment, les images ne sont pas toute jeune même c'est du même
acabit que les images bing.

Donc voilà, peut-on utiliser les images, dans quel mesure? ,..

   



Euh, j'ai pas compris si tu parles d'images aériennes (référence à
Bing) ou d'images prises depuis le sol (Google Street View).
Concernant les images aériennes, comme le mentionne Thomas, la réponse
est simple : il est interdit de tracer directement depuis les
orthophotos (sauf autorisation express comme l'a fait Microsoft/Bing).

Concernant les images prises depuis les Googles cars, c'est plus
compliqué puisqu'on ne trace pas directement depuis les photos mais
on retire une information présente sur la photo (par exemple, un
panneau sens interdit ou le nom d'une rue si le panneau n'est pas
flouté). Hors, il y a souvent une confusion sur ce sujet concernant
les droits d'auteur. Google est bien le propriétaire des droits des
photos publiées sur StreetView et il est interdit de les reproduire
(les photos) sans leur autorisation. Toutefois, Google n'est pas
propriétaire des rues qu'il a pris en photo (pas encore ;-), ni des
informations contenues dans ces photos. Il est même souvent en
violation du droit lorsqu'il oublie de flouter des visages ou des
informations d'ordre privée qu'il publie sans l'autorisation des
personnes concernées (autre vaste débat). Il ne faut pas confondre
photos et contenu des photos.
Il est donc tout à fait légal d'utiliser une photo street view pour
vérifier qu'un panneau sens interdit est bien présent à tel endroit.
Mais, et il y a un mais, faire une utilisation systématique de
StreetView pose d'autres problèmes légaux qui font que ça n'est pas
possible non plus de le faire trop souvent sans l'autorisation de
Google (droit relatif aux collections de données).
La question de l'utilisation de StreetView pour OSM a déjà été posée à
plusieurs reprises à Google et notamment Ed Parsons, porte-parole des
projets géographiques chez Google et qui répond ceci:

 


so checking the odd street names is OK.. but every street name I would suggest 
would represent a bulk feed.
   



qu'on peut traduire approximativement par vérifier quelques noms de
rue est OK.. mais tous les noms de rues représenterait un usage
massif. (et donc interdit, ndt)

Voir une copie de sa réponse sur cette archive:
http://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk/2011-April/057473.html

Pour résumer, utiliser StreetView pour un usage occasionnel, oui; pour
un usage systématique, non. J'ajouterais que StreetView n'est qu'un
instantané parfois ancien et donc que cela ne remplacera jamais la
vérification sur le terrain.
Comme on le voit, c'est un sujet complexe et trop souvent, les gens
préfèrent dire de ne pas le faire par précaution mais c'est plus le
résultat d'une culture de la peur que d'une vision éclairée du droit.

Pieren

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Re: [OSM-talk-be] Some maxspeed mapping questions

2011-11-11 Thread Gerard Vanderveken


Ben Laenen wrote:


On Friday 11 November 2011 09:50:16 Gerard Vanderveken wrote:
 


Ben Laenen wrote:
   


This is an unsolved question... Some may use directions like N/E/S/W for
north/east/south/west. But then you also need to be able to attach the
node to the proper way (bridges and dual carriageways make this a
difficult problem).
 


I would rather use the left / right suffixes in stead of directions, as
they define the position always clear
(eventually  forward / backward, but it seems somewhat deprecated)
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/right_left
   



But this doesn't work for single nodes not connected to a way. 
Left/right/forward/backward become pretty meaningless on single nodes :-)


Ben
 

When the node is not part of the highway, its position left or right 
from the highway is enough to determine the apllicable direction of the way.
But I would always tag nodes of the highway itself, for not having the 
confusion where a node belongs to.
Apart from indication of the exact position, I don't see any good 
reasons to put signs outside the highway or to map them as sign in the 
first place.
Their consequences are applicable to the highway segments an that's what 
and where it should be tagged.


Gerard
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Re: [OSM-talk-be] Some maxspeed mapping questions

2011-11-11 Thread Gerard Vanderveken




Jo wrote:


While starting to change a mini_roundabout which wasn't actually a
mini_roundabout, I went a little overboard and this is the result:

It is a 'verhoogd kruispunt', so I tagged all the elevated ways with:

traffic_calming=table

And the places where the bumps are 'felt' with:

traffic_calming=bump

This is double marking, the end of the roadsegment of a table is by 
nature always a bump.

But the real bump for traffic_calming is in fact something else
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:traffic_calming%3Dbump
So, traffic_calming=bump is not realy applicable here.



I added the cycleways and cycleway tags and then I had to change the
rcn and rwn relations

The rcn had this, which I have been removing everywhere, since it's a
Dutch word:

nettype=knoop

I left these tags:
rit=x

Although I don't know what they stand for and where they come from.
Should they stay? Are they useful for anyone? I don't think rit is an
English term and there are maybe 100-150 out of 5000 routes which have
this tag.


It could be translated as lap
Maybe it is a route number.
Did you try to contact the user that inserted the tagr?
If it is something personal,  it should be deleted.



Concerning the nettype. While editing a bit in Germany (and in the
border area Hohes Venn), my script ran in trouble when trying to
detect new rcn routes, because the Germans use rcn for many different
kinds of cycle routes. In the mean time I found that normally I can
distinguish between the cycle node networks because we don't use ref
tags and they do on the other networks.
While 'complaining' about the mess, they suggested I add an additional
tag to the cycle node network rcn relations, since those were the
exception worldwide. So, does it make sense to add something like:

network:type = numbered_nodes
nettype = numbered_nodes

to our rcn networks?


I would propose to add on these relation for  node networks something like
numbered_nodes=yes
or simply
nodes=yes



Sorry for rambling on and on... those are questions that I've been
wondering about for a while and which all surfaced now during the
editing of a simple junction...

Jo

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Re: [OSM-talk-be] New village boundaries?

2011-11-06 Thread Gerard Vanderveken


Altough it is a geographical location,
http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=50.7876lon=4.5993zoom=13layers=M
I think it is some commercial act from a wine maker (see monteberg.be)

As said: ignore, unless you get confirmation of the town Heuvelland that 
there is a new hamlet.

Regards,
Gerard.

Sander Deryckere wrote:




2011/11/6 Ben Laenen benlae...@gmail.com mailto:benlae...@gmail.com

On Sunday 06 November 2011 12:08:10 Sander Deryckere wrote:
 Hi, some months ago, I drew a lot of West-Flemish boundaries.
They were
 based on out-of-copyright ferraris maps, with checking the
history of the
 village on Wikipedia (to see if there were new villages created).

 But yesterday on a walk, I saw this sign:

https://picasaweb.google.com/105567941221792569561/Heuvelland?authkey=Gv1sR
 gCOTc7tuYrZy6Ig#5671834208381401762

 I never heard of the village Monteberg. Ok, it's a mountain I
know, but I
 never heard of it as a village. And even after the fusion of the
70's, they
 still make new boundaries.

Probably some fantasy of the person in charge when they placed
those signs.


A weird fantasy.


 Does anyone know what I have to do with this?

Ignore :-)


All right, probably the best thing to do indeed.


Greetings
Ben



Greets,
Sander 




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Re: [OSM-talk-be] Navteq de lijn en google maps!

2011-11-03 Thread Gerard Vanderveken


Dat is niet zeker.
Alhoewel gratis, komen de OSM-gegevens ook met een licentie en 
bijhorende rechten en plichten, welke voor Google misschien wel even 
hinderlijk zijn als het 'njet' of de voorwaarden  van Navteq.


mvg
Gerard.

Ben Abelshausen wrote:

Ok dus als hun routes in OSM zaten had Google nu busroutes van de lijn 
gehad? :-)


2011/11/3 Jo winfi...@gmail.com mailto:winfi...@gmail.com

Alle routes die in OSM zijn geplaatst zijn verkregen door surveying.
D.w.z. de bus opstappen en een GPX van de route maken terwijl de bus
aan het rijden is. Dat deed ik op regenachtige en winterdagen...

Van de haltes die erin staan, heb ik ofwel foto's ofwel heb ik zeer
snel geprobeerd om zoveel mogelijk gegevens van de haltebordjes te
lezen en toe te voegen aan die GPX. Het probleem hiermee is dat ik dat
niet op m'n eentje voor heel Vlaanderen kan doen. Zodoende staan alle
routes van De Lijn en een paar van de TEC die Leuven aandoen erin
(behalve de 178 en 179 en school- en marktbussen)

Waar Navteq problemen van maakt, is dat Google ook Shapefiles nodig
heeft. Als De Lijn hun data met ons had gedeeld toen ik dat voorstelde
een tweetal jaar geleden, hadden ze die shapefiles op basis van
OSM-data kunnen genereren... en hadden ze nu dat probleem niet gehad.

Nu, alle bussen hebben GPS'en aan boord en sturen voortdurend hun
positie naar dispatching, dus zo moeilijk kan het voor de Lijn niet
zijn om aan de hand daarvan die shapefiles onafhankelijk van Navteq
aan te maken, eigenlijk.

Dat zou nog 's een jobke voor mij zijn se :-)

mvg,

Jo

PS: ik ben op jacht naar foto's van bushaltes van De Lijn over heel
Vlaanderen. Wie er heeft, of wie anderen kan motiveren om er te maken
mag ze naar mij (laten) doorsturen op dit adres. Want ik zou op die
manier alle haltes erin willen krijgen, aangezien De Lijn hun data aan
ons niet wil vrijgeven, zullen we het zelf moeten doen. Als de haltes
er eenmaal instaan, kunnen de routes volgen, op termijn. Ook zou ik
willen vragen aan mensen die zelf bushaltes ingeven, om tenminste de
ref=xx erbij te zetten en als je wat meer tijd hebt ook een
route_ref=315;316;317;410. De positie van de haltes is vrij
gemakkelijk te bepalen voor zowat de helft ervan, aangezien er in
grote letters B U S staat, wat zeer goed zichtbaar is op Bing. Als er
geen wegmarkering voor de halte is en ook geen hokje, zou het leuk
zijn om ook foto's van de aanliggende huisnummers te maken en door te
sturen.

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Re: [OSM-talk-be] Regional walking networks

2011-10-11 Thread Gerard Vanderveken




Ben Laenen wrote:


On Tuesday 11 October 2011 15:21:47 Jo wrote:
 


Maybe the fact that this discussion seems to recur every so often is an
indicator that something is not logical about it.
Since these routes ultimately have to be entered by people and these people
make a choice, which is not easily altered (I tried in the case of RoRay)
as to what editor they use, it does matter whether editors support the way
we tag those relations. Ultimately that's why, until recently, all the
route relations had identical note and name tags.
   




The reason why it keeps coming up is because people fail to learn the basic 
rules about mapping in OSM:


(1) don't tag for the renderer (most people seem to grab this idea)

and

(2) don't tag for the editor (this one is more difficult for some to 
understand)



We can go on and on, but tagging these routes with name tags is a clear 
example of tagging for the editor.
 


We want to tag for the people and for usabillity.

The current reasoning is flawed.

-The route between 2 points in a network has no name, so we do not tag a 
name in OSM.
-People can't work well with unnamed objects, so we give the route a 
name by using start point number - end point number
-Since the route has no name, we can't use the name  tag  and so we put 
the name in the note tag.


A purist point of view is made, which is then compromised in the wrong 
way and this leads to these discussions over and over again.
Do simply what is needed and have this name where it belongs. In the 
name tag.

This will be the end of this ever recurring discussion.

If it is purity that has to come first, then we should have no note tag 
as well and those note tags should be deleted?
We are lucky that JOSM supports this note tag, otherwise there was no 
way of managing those networks in a decent way.

(Maybe a feature request to 'unsupport' this tag in JOSM is in order?)

With the note tag as it is now, we can also not differentiate the routes 
from the different networks, because eg 12-34 can be part of a walking 
or biking network. The current practice is from the time that only one 
node network existed.  Now that ways or regions can be part of several 
networks,  an update is needed.


So, I repeat my proposal to have a change of the Wiki and a decent name 
tag for the routes in a node network, where not only the start and end 
number is present but also preceeded by the (abbreviated) network name 
as done in the walking network Zuid-Dijleland.

http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/relation/1641610
Every route is then clearly and consistently identifiable in all parts 
of the OSM space, be it the overviews on the website, the editors or the 
renderers.


And as PolyGlot already said, thanks to his scripts, the change from 
note tag to name tag can be done overnight.


We do not need to tag for, but also not to tag against.

Regards,
Gerard.



Ben

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Re: [OSM-talk-be] Regional walking networks

2011-10-11 Thread Gerard Vanderveken



Ben Laenen wrote:


On Tuesday 11 October 2011 16:49:00 Gerard Vanderveken wrote:
 


We want to tag for the people and for usabillity.

The current reasoning is flawed.

-The route between 2 points in a network has no name, so we do not tag a
name in OSM.
   



Congratulations. Now if only we can end the discussion here...

The problem is that the discussion starts here. It is not because there 
is no sign of it, that there is no name for these routes.
Internally the managing people of the network uses also this 'route from 
12 to 34'  name in one or other form for the route segments to list 
their equipment (signposts) and to identify problems etc (See eg 
routedokter)



-People can't work well with unnamed objects, so we give the route a
name by using start point number - end point number
   



I must be some kind of superhuman apparently since I was able to map these 
routes for years using Potlatch 1?


Maybe, but we (and certainly I) aren't. 
But I think that you are no longer working in Potlatch for relations, as 
seeing the names in JOSM. is much more handy
Errors were made, some of which could be prevented if the name was in 
its name tag.
Eg Check out how many duplicated routes were removed by Polylot's edits 
during the last weeks.

The point is that now the note tag is used to store the name of the route.


-Since the route has no name, we can't use the name  tag  and so we put
the name in the note tag.
   



It's a note helping editors to describe what the relation actually is. The 
note has always been there to help fellow mappers and yourself later to get a 
bit more information on the object.



It is only helping in JOSM, were it is displayed in lists.
The others are and will stay out of luck.
They have to check all objects one by one to find out which is which and 
that is not very practical.

http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/relation/1698153
Which one is  186-246?
In Potlatch, when you want to add a way to a relation, you get exact the 
same meaningless list of id numbers.

Which one to pick?


A purist point of view is made, which is then compromised in the wrong
way and this leads to these discussions over and over again.
Do simply what is needed and have this name where it belongs. In the
name tag.
This will be the end of this ever recurring discussion.
   




And if you start using the name tag, you'll find that you have to write 
exceptions for everything using the data since it suddenly has routes with a 
name which it shouldn't present as its name. See what happens with the Lonvia 
map. And there is no simple way to solve this, you'll have to sort it out 
manually.
 


I'm quite pleased with the result on the Lonvia hiking map. Thank you.
http://hiking.lonvia.de/?zoom=14lat=50.80698lon=4.62237

If you don't want to use the name tag, because that  name might be 
rendered, and then put it in the note tag, you are also tagging for 
(against) the renderers.

Exactly as the objection of Eimai is in the trac
https://trac.openstreetmap.org/ticket/4017#comment:9

 Using the name tag would be an abuse. These routes simply don't have
names, the networks do. Sure we can invent some pretty names to be shown
in the relation lists, but then we'd need to special case every renderer
that wants to actually render these routes to discard names of just these
networks. That's not the better option. 

It is also tagging for the renderer, because one might not be pleased 
with the rendered result.



If it is purity that has to come first, then we should have no note tag
as well and those note tags should be deleted?
   



Why is the note tag not appropriate for this usecase?

If your only issue is helping with the editing of data, invent some other tag 
(mapper_and_editor_friendly_description=* or whatever) and try to get support 
for that in the editors.


Suppose you have some exotic object you want to tag and there's no way to map 
it yet, would you also put its description in the name tag? (Bad example 
perhaps, as some actually do this.)



It's not a name, and for some reason you agree that it's not a name, yet you 
still want to tag it as a name. (*)



(*) where it is some predefined arbitrary description which follows some 
rules on the wiki which would also be subject to some discussion: should we 
use abbreviations? Should it include what kind of network it is? What language 
should it be in?


The fact that you have to invent a name first is reason enough for me to not 
tag it as such.
 

12-34 is a name. It is maybe not the best name or the only name 
possible, but it is one. People who read it know over which route 
relation we are talking. And so it should not be in the note, but in the 
name tag.
We don't need support for some additional tags that might or might not 
get supported. The name tag is appropriate and always supported.
The language is no issue as they are simply in the language of the 
'operator'


Strictly speaking, the bus routes don't have a name either

Re: [OSM-talk-be] Regional walking networks

2011-10-10 Thread Gerard Vanderveken




Ben Laenen wrote:


On Monday 10 October 2011 21:19:56 Marc Gemis wrote:
 


I use both openwandelkaart and Lonvia to check my edits. Recently, I
noticed that some walking networks are rendered differently in Lonvia. The
routes have a rectangle with 2 characters (ZD - Zuid-Dijleland and KH -
Kempische Heuvelrug). Furthermore some routes have a proper lavel (ZD
100-101) instead of just the ID of the object.

Rivierenland -
http://hiking.lonvia.de/?zoom=13lat=51.09385lon=4.40489layers=FFBT0
(also click Routes in lower right corner)
vs
Zuid-Dijleland - http://hiking.lonvia.de/?zoom=13lat=50.7784lon=4.60522

Is this the new standard to tag regional walking networks ? Can this be
documented on the wiki ?
   



That happens when you use the name=* tag for the network name on these routes.

As with cycle node networks, don't use the name=* tag on the routes.

 

I believe the Wiki should be changed and in stead of the node tag, a  
name or ref tag should be used.


See also this discussion.:
http://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk-be/2011-August/002213.html

At the end I asked for a feature request on the website of Open Street 
Map and Potlatch, to have more info beside the meaningless relation id 
numbers.

http://trac.openstreetmap.org/ticket/4017
As you can see this note tag is an abuse and will never be supported by 
the website or Potlatch.


I don't know or understand the rationale for the note tag either, but 
find the name tag as proposed in the talk, much more convenient (as also 
demonstrated by the2 lonvia links from the TS).

The listings on the website will be more meaningful
http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/relation/1641610
in opposite to Rivierenland
http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/relation/1698153
Same goes when you want to add a street to an existing relation. In the 
dropdown, you see only id numbers and so you can not see which is the 
right relation to add to.

When they are named it is much more obvious.


And a second thing to change would be the addition of the endpoints in 
the routes as described by the Wiki.

http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Cycle_Node_Network_Tagging#.28B.29_Route_tagging
This has no function at all and it is not provided for bike and foot 
routes to have node members.

http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Relation:route#Members
(nodes are only for PT routes as stop, ...)
It is also superfluous, because the roads at start and end contains 
these points already.


For the network relation, which groups all routes , there you could find 
some sense in it to have the nodes listed.


 


Another question is regarding the name of those networks. Apparently, the
name of the brochure  (see http://www.wandelroutes.org/wandelnetwerk.htm )
does not always match the name on the signposts.

E.g. Kempense Heuvelrug (brochure) is Antwerpse Kempen (signposts)
In het land van Stille Waters (brochure) is Scheldeland (signposts)

Which name is preferred ? Should we somehow mention both names ?
Or is e.g. Antwerpse Kempen a superset of the Kempense Heuvelrug ?
   



Use the one on the signposts.

In fact there are only few bike node networks in Belgium (Flanders 
actually). They are as such listed on the signposts.


From most networks,  these are publicised on more than 1 map, which 
have then distinct titles.

Eg Vlaams-Brabant has 2 networks  Hageland and Groene Gordel.
Hageland fits on 1 map, but Groene Gordel comes with 3 maps: Dijleland, 
Brabantse Kouters and Pajottenland - Zennevallei.

http://www.brabantsekouters.be/gemeenten/gemeenten.asp
These are also 3 regions.

PolyGlot has tried to find a logic in this and tried to exclude double 
numbering of nodes in one network.

So he invented also non-existing networks as eg Dijlelandse Kouters.
http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/relation/1726882
This should be rectified.

Altough the villages are well defined for belonging to their region eg 
Dijleland, etc, it is not always evident for the nodes itself as some 
are on the borders.
The maps themselves are not helping either as they make no (or not 
always) distinction between the different networks or even provinces.


I would prefer to have 3 networks (Dijleland, Kouters and Pajottenland) 
in stead of one large Groene Gordel.
I think it will be too big with too many nodes and routes (some in 
duplication) for being practical.

(It may also hit the limit for maximun number of members)
Also the people that live there, love their region and don't want to be 
part of some politically defined artificiallity.

http://www.nieuwsblad.be/article/detail.aspx?articleid=DMF20111008_072

In general,  I would take the divisions as listed in WikiPedia
http://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fietsnetwerk#Status_in_Belgi.C3.AB
and put that as base in the OSM wiki
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/WikiProject_Belgium/Cycle_Routes#Cycle_Node_Networks

Regards,
Gerard.



Greetings
Ben

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Re: [OSM-talk-be] ODBL

2011-09-25 Thread Gerard Vanderveken

Renaud MICHEL wrote:

Hello
On dimanche 25 septembre 2011 at 14:23, Jo wrote :

I'm sending the following message to everybody who hasn't decided yet. Up
to now I sent it to all contributors who still have 1-150 elements in
the database in Belgium. From those I managed to have 8 extra people who
agreed. That's not all that much, but it's better than nothing.
Especially since their contributions form part of a chain. I've been
sending out messages like these before, which resulted in 4-5 people who
agreed.

[...]

OSM changes its license. Could you please check whether you can agree to
release your contributions under the ODBL? The idea behind the license is
mostly the same as with CC-BY-SA. ODBL is more suited for a database,
which is what Openstreetmap is, at the core.
If you can't agree to the new license and contributor terms, your
contributions will have to be removed to move forward. This may have
consequences when people have built further on elements that you touched.
All their efforts may have been in vain as well.
For people like me who would like to try and save as much as possible
data, it means we have to put in inordinate amounts of time to sort out
what can be saved and what needs to be dropped.
So, please, log in for a moment on www.openstreetmap.org and indicate
whether you agree or not to the new license and contributor terms.

This is not accurate, no decision has been taken (yet) to change the license
from CC-BY-SA to ODbL. What is being asked now is to accept the
contributor's term which grant a wider right to the OSMF by allowing it to
relicense one's contributions if 2/3 of active mappers agree on the new
license.
The current target is ODbL, but maybe ten years in the future the community
at that time may choose another license that they consider more appropriate.

So by accepting the new CT, the contributors must actually have the required
rights on all their contributions to grant this to the OSMF.

For example, in the case of data contributed by some administration or
private enterprise, the person who imported them in OSM must be sure he is
allowed to accept the CT (some people explicitly refused the CT because of
such problem).

cheers

That is also not accurate.
Actually, You are accepting both, and the new OdbL license for your
existing and future contributions, and the new contributor terms, which
makes it easier to change the license again, if there is a reason to do so.
For this change from CC-BY-SA to OdbL, everyone has to give its
acceptance, for changing to another (that would be then the third)
license a 2/3 majority is sufficient.
There is no license change from OdbL in the short future necessary or
foreseen, and so these contributor terms aren't strictly needed now, but
it is a good provision to be ready in a distant future for a
modernisation of the OdbL license should it be needed, and then the
transition will be much smoother by this majority principle.

See in detail:
http://www.osmfoundation.org/wiki/License/We_Are_Changing_The_License#What_Are_The_Choices.3F

Regards,
Gerard.
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Re: [OSM-talk-be] Bing Updated

2011-09-22 Thread Gerard Vanderveken

As the aerial image is also composed out of 256x256 tiles, it is 
possible that the higher zoom levels are not yet generated from the new 
materials.

Wait, hope and see!

Gerard

Ben Laenen wrote:


On Wednesday 21 September 2011 21:08:12 Renaud MICHEL wrote:
 


On mercredi 21 septembre 2011 at 11:18, Gerard Vanderveken wrote :
   


Bing updated the background imagery for JOSM and Potlatch to spring 2011.
I've also the impression the resolution is now on par with bing.com/maps.
Now you can map also very recent buildings and other objects.
 


I hope they don't stop here, as it seems a work in progress.
Looking over Liège at a place I know changed recently, hospital le valdor
(see http://osm.org/go/0Eqqh5ZcK-) up to zoom 17 I now get images from
10/10/2010, but at zoom 18 and over it is still images from 10/6/2007 when
the hospital was in re-construction.
This is not a JOSM problem, as you can see on bing site
http://be.bing.com/maps/?v=2cp=50.63429469934849~5.589405251254638lvl=17;
dir=0sty=hform=LMLTCC

We'll see in the coming days.
   



As you maybe can see, the new imagery is less detailed then what they had 
before in some locations, so they chose the (IMO) sensible option to show 
older images when you're zoomed in. Sure, it can look weird, but it's either 
this, or blocky images at zoom 18.


Ben

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Re: [OSM-talk-be] Difference between OSM and BING background

2011-09-21 Thread Gerard Vanderveken

This seems to be solved by the recent Bing update.
Regards,
Gerard.

Gerard Vanderveken wrote:

Hi,

The difference shows in PotLatch 2.
http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=51.176782lon=4.445492zoom=18layers=M
In Potlatch the alignment with Yahoo is still correct.
For other areas (Loonbeek) the alignment witth Bing is still correct.
Probably Bing updated its images for some part of the Antwerp area and
it has some alignment problems.

http://www.openstreetmap.org/edit?editor=potlatch2lat=51.177744lon=4.436042zoom=18node=1206610666
The church is duplicated at the right, but due to the advanced
stitching, the tile borders are hard to see, even with some streets
cutted off.

The misalignment shows on all zoom levels.
I assume this will be corrected in a few days.
The JOSM editor has some functions to align the background, but I
don't recommend it to go into that.

Regards,
Gerard.

Dirk Roels (Hotmail) wrote:

Hi,

I noticed that there is a HUGE difference in position of streets
(seem shifted over quite a distance), etc in the Mortsel area (take a
look at Deurnestraat Guide Gezellelaan area) when the map is
enlarged (closer look). Is this normal behaviour? if so... is it a
problem? if so... does the map have to be aligned to the
BING-background and to what degree can the BING-background be
trusted? or is it something that should be/needs to be corrected?

Cheers,
Dirk

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Re: [OSM-talk-be] Duration for changes to appear on all zoom levels?

2011-09-19 Thread Gerard Vanderveken

Normally 5 to 30 minutes later, it  should be present in Mapnik after a 
first request to view.

Osmarender takes in general what longer.

At first glance,  I don't see any differences (pitches, track and 
building are present).

Maybe it is your browsers' cache that make the trouble.
Try once to erase the cached files and history.

Regards,
Gerard.

Ringo De Smet wrote:


Hello,

Last week, I executed this edit:

http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/changeset/9289424

Six days later, the changes appear only on more high-level maps. See
the difference:

http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=51.15047lon=3.95109zoom=15layers=M
http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=51.15047lon=3.95109zoom=16layers=M

How long does it usually take for changes to appear on all zoom levels?

Ringo

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Re: [OSM-talk-be] Yippee! JOSM is the best! :-)

2011-09-08 Thread Gerard Vanderveken


Maybe you need a CSS rule for relation[boundary]?

Gerard.

Jo wrote:


Hi Julien,

I'm glad you find my post useful. Did you manage to show the bus stops 
the way that you like?


If not, if you point me to one of your bus stops, I'll try and see 
what I can do. For myself, I'll probably be showing the zone number of 
the stops, this way.


In the mean time, I've improved a bit on the concept:

way[boundary]
 { color: #66; width: 2; opacity: 0.6; dashes: 24,4, 4, 4; 
z-index: 4;} 
way[boundary=administrative]

 { color: purple; width: 2; opacity: 0.2; dashes: 24,4; z-index: 4;}
 
node[rcn_ref]

 {text-color: green;
  font-size: 17;
  text: rcn_ref;
  text-halo: #aaffcc;
  text-halo-radius: 2;
  text-position: right;}

relation[type=network][network=rcn]  node::relation_underlay
 {text-color: red;
  font-size: 17;
  text: rcn_ref;
  text-halo: #aaffcc;
  text-halo-radius: 2;
  text-position: right;}

area
 {text-color: red;
  font-size: 18;
  text: name;
  text-position: center;}


Now it shows the CNNs/FKP'en that are part of a network in red on cyan 
and the other ones in an ugly greenish grey on pink. Later on, I'll 
probably want to assign each network its own color.


For some reason the boundary is not drawn differently, which I think 
would be helpful since unsurprisingly those cycle node networks tend 
to have boundaries on the borders between the provinces.


Cheers,

Jo



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Re: [OSM-talk-be] Yippee! JOSM is the best! :-)

2011-09-06 Thread Gerard Vanderveken

JOSM has no specific symbols for nodes that are a node in a cycle route 
network.
You can see such nodes are highlighted in grey, because it has 
attributes, but that is all.
The proposed 'change' makes that the cycle node numbers are displayed in 
JOSM (in the way a cityname is displayed), which facilitates checking 
and editing cycle routes of a network.


Gerard.

Julien Fastré wrote:


Hum... I am sorry, I don't understand in which context you create this...

Julien

2011/9/3 Jo winfi...@gmail.com mailto:winfi...@gmail.com

I'm trying to create networks of nodes of the cycle node network.
Up to now I've been flying blind. Using search over and over again.

Now I found a nicer solution:

A text file rcn.mapcss with one line in it:

node[rcn_ref] {text-color: blue; font-size: 14; text: rcn_ref;
text-halo: #aa; text-halo-radius: 2; text-position: right;}

Then F12, third option (grid icon), Kaarttekenstijlen (second tab)
+ URL/file - point to this text file.

And voilà; now all the nodes of the cycle node network are shown
with a big fat number besides them, which makes it a lot easier to
determine which ones belong to the same network.

Polyglot


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Re: [OSM-talk-be] Yippee! JOSM is the best! :-)

2011-09-06 Thread Gerard Vanderveken


Yes, a similar change is required.
You find all info for styles in JOSM here:
http://josm.openstreetmap.de/wiki/Styles
I think the 'paddenstoel guidepost' is the example you are looking for.
http://josm.openstreetmap.de/wiki/Styles/Guidepost

Gerard.

Julien Fastré wrote:


OK, I understand now...

Maybe we could use such hack for presenting bus stop created with the 
new Public Transport proposition : 
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/Public_Transport 
. I tryed those new features some weeks ago and the bus stop were ugly 
white squares... http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/changeset/8220638


Maybe can we add some stylesheets to JOSM using the same way as Jo ?

Julien



2011/9/6 Gerard Vanderveken g...@ghia.eu mailto:g...@ghia.eu

JOSM has no specific symbols for nodes that are a node in a cycle
route network.
You can see such nodes are highlighted in grey, because it has
attributes, but that is all.
The proposed 'change' makes that the cycle node numbers are
displayed in JOSM (in the way a cityname is displayed), which
facilitates checking and editing cycle routes of a network.

Gerard.

Julien Fastré wrote:

Hum... I am sorry, I don't understand in which context you
create this...

Julien

2011/9/3 Jo winfi...@gmail.com mailto:winfi...@gmail.com
mailto:winfi...@gmail.com mailto:winfi...@gmail.com


   I'm trying to create networks of nodes of the cycle node
network.
   Up to now I've been flying blind. Using search over and
over again.

   Now I found a nicer solution:

   A text file rcn.mapcss with one line in it:

   node[rcn_ref] {text-color: blue; font-size: 14; text: rcn_ref;
   text-halo: #aa; text-halo-radius: 2; text-position: right;}

   Then F12, third option (grid icon), Kaarttekenstijlen
(second tab)
   + URL/file - point to this text file.

   And voilà; now all the nodes of the cycle node network are
shown
   with a big fat number besides them, which makes it a lot
easier to
   determine which ones belong to the same network.

   Polyglot


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Re: [OSM-talk-be] Fietsknooppuntennetwerk/Cycle node network

2011-08-31 Thread Gerard Vanderveken

It makes perfect sense to me and I totally agree.
But I assume you mean ways in stead of nodes in 'So the route relations
should only contain (a preferably) continuous set of nodes'

On top of that, I find it handy when the route realations have a name,
so it is easy to see which are the relations of a road.

http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/73069100
When they have 2 or 3 meaningful letters in front (followed by a space)
of the numbers, you can also easily see on the hike or bike maps which
network is in place

eg ZD 239-240 = Zuid-Dijleland from node 239 to 240
http://hiking.lonvia.de/?zoom=12lat=50.779lon=4.56392
With only the numbers,
http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/relation/14142
it is truncated and thus cluthering the map.
http://cycling.lonvia.de/?zoom=13lat=50.78855lon=4.59216layers=FFBTT
Also when a way is part of more than one network (hike and bike) the
numbers don't tell which is which.

Here a good addition could be DL for Dijleland
Alternative is to provide an osmc tag with the shortened name in it
(probably not working for bike maps).

This tagging info for prper naming should be added to the Wiki
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/WikiProject_Belgium/Walking_Routes#Walking_node_networks
and
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/WikiProject_Belgium/Cycle_Routes#Cycle_Node_Networks
and maybe also in the general remarks in conventions.
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/WikiProject_Belgium/Conventions/Walking_Routes
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/WikiProject_Belgium/Conventions/Cycle_Routes

Regards,
Gerard.

Jo wrote:

Hi,

I'm working on the cycle node network in Flanders/Southern Netherlands.

I created a collection relation:

http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/relation/1726882

This should make it a lot more convenient to find all the
nodes/routes/networks involved in the rcn. Fiddling with XAPI and such
is not very productive... It's extremely time consuming and very error
prone.

Which contains a network relation for each set of numbered nodes
(where each set contains only one time 01,02, etc) (I'm working
without the maps of Toerisme Vlaanderen, so I had to improvise for the
naming and where to make a subdivision)

For the moment I'm abusing the role to add the node number. This works
easier and is only temporary. I'll take them all out again, when I'm
done inventorizing.

The network relations contain the route relations. As far as I'm
concerned, the route relations don't need to contain the nodes
anymore. They are part of the ways, anyway. So the route relations
should only contain (a preferably) continuous set of nodes. I try to
have them start at the lower numbered node. If the forward and
backward relation don't follow the same route, I use forward/backward
roles. The idea I'm following is that it should be possible to go from
the lower numbered to the higher numbered node by following all the
ways without a role until ways with forward roles are met. Then all
the ways with forward roles until a way with a backward role is found.
Then skip the ways with backward roles and continue with the ways
without a role.

All this, because I want to be able to 'validate' the routes for
continuity with a script/program and this will probably simplify the
life of the people of Fietsnet as well.

I'll post an example to illustrate later on.

Polyglot

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Re: [OSM-talk-be] Fietsknooppuntennetwerk/Cycle node network

2011-08-31 Thread Gerard Vanderveken




Ben Laenen wrote:


On Wednesday 31 August 2011 15:12:05 Gerard Vanderveken wrote:
 


It makes perfect sense to me and I totally agree.
But I assume you mean  ways in stead of nodes in 'So the route relations
should only contain (a preferably) continuous set of nodes'

On top of that,  I find it handy when the route realations have a name,
so it is easy to see which are the relations of a road.
http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/73069100
When they have 2 or 3 meaningful letters in front (followed by a space)
of the numbers, you can also easily see on the hike or bike maps which
network is in place
eg ZD 239-240 = Zuid-Dijleland from node 239 to 240
   



Do not give names to the route relations of cycle and walking node networks. 
They don't have names so you shouldn't invent one. Use the note=* tag for 
what you want to put in the name tag, and JOSM will gladly show the note to 
you in the relation list.


Greetings
Ben
 

That is OK for JOSM, but a list like this (at the bottom) is simply not 
meaningful.

http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/changeset/917?relation_page=3
This is much clearer.
http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/changeset/9132576
altough  a short name would also do:
http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/relation/1641610
The route name is not 'invented', everyone referr to it as the route 
from node A to node B

So why not formalize it?
I guess the province has internally a similar naming.
That it is not on streetsigns is no objection for me.
Tracks and paths from roads of the Atlas don't have official names 
either, and yet it makes perfect sense to name them as numbered in the 
atlas as eg Buurtweg 23,  Sentier 45, etc.)

http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=50.82162lon=4.61208zoom=15layers=M

Regards,
Gerard.
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Re: [OSM-talk-be] Lang usages and modifications in BXL

2011-08-13 Thread Gerard Vanderveken


Agreed on 'first come, first set'.

But one could make an exception for things that by their nature have a 
French or Flemish character, eg schools or institutions that are 
dependent on one of the Communities or Regions, maybe also associations 
or companies that have only signs in one language,  For such POI you 
could argue that depending on the case NL or FR should come first.
Maybe a note tag as eg 'Governed by the . Community' could be added 
to explain.


When a name is stated only in one language, one can add after a ' - '  
the second language and then also both name:nl and name:fr tags.


User RoRay is (ignorent or deliberatly) out of line. I will send him a 
PM too.


Regards,
Gerard

Dennis Bollyn wrote:


Hello,

It was agreed upon that, in Brussels, whoever adds the name could 
decide the order. This was meant as a sort of incentive for people to 
go out there and be the first to map an area.


So in this case, if the order was changed, this for me is 
disrespectful to the original mapper and should be reverted.


Best regards,

Dennis

Op 13/08/2011 12:35, eMerzh schreef:


Hi everyone,

after some vacations, i come back to Brussels, and ito informs me
about some modifications in my area.
i've check them and i feel not soo good about them

The user RoRay (http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/RoRay) has
systematically remove french part of the name or put the NL part first
of translate things instead of adding the translation like

http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/node/667429310/history
or http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/node/471074462/history
(or a lot of other things)

I don't want to start a community troll but i thought that in VL the
name attribute is Name in nl, in WL the name is Name in FR and in
bxl the name is Name in FR - Name in NL ... is that still correct?

I've tried to reach him by private message but no answer

if you are Roray or if you know him please contact me...


What do you think about it? should i revert those changes? should i 
do nothing?



Thanks for you help

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Re: [OSM-talk-be] Verkeerstuin

2011-08-11 Thread Gerard Vanderveken


There is a 'verkeerspark'  in the 'proviciaal domein' of  Kessel-Lo also.
A foto for people to know what we are talking about:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/vlaamsbrabant/3228819350/
Didn't check yet how it is mapped
mvg
Gerard

wannes wrote:

On Thu, Aug 11, 2011 at 2:28 PM, Andre Engels andreeng...@gmail.com 
mailto:andreeng...@gmail.com wrote:


On Thu, Aug 11, 2011 at 2:20 PM, Tim François
sk1pp...@yahoo.co.uk mailto:sk1pp...@yahoo.co.uk wrote:

I've certainly never seen one of these in my 20 years in the
UK (though that doesn't mean they don't exist of course!).

Do they exist in NL or DE? If so, they'll probably have been
mapped so you could copy that?


As far as I know there is one in the Netherlands, in Assen, but it
has not been explicitly mapped (it can be found at
http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=52.96911lon=6.53868zoom=16
http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=52.96911lon=6.53868zoom=16)


Google images tells me there should be one in Amersfoort, NL also.

--
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Re: [OSM-talk-be] Verkeerstuin

2011-08-11 Thread Gerard Vanderveken


Seems not mapped.
http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=50.8949lon=4.7244zoom=16layers=M
I would map all 'roads'  as 
highway=path

with
surface=asphalt
bicycle=yes
foot=yes
gocart??=yes
and maybe also
type=traffic_education
Enclose it with leisure=track or leisure=playground and give that the 
name 'verkeerspark' or whatever is on the signs.
(I would not bother with traffic signs, 'fun street names' and turn 
restrictions)


Regards,
Gerard

Gerard Vanderveken wrote:


There is a 'verkeerspark'  in the 'proviciaal domein' of  Kessel-Lo also.
A foto for people to know what we are talking about:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/vlaamsbrabant/3228819350/
Didn't check yet how it is mapped
mvg
Gerard

wannes wrote:

On Thu, Aug 11, 2011 at 2:28 PM, Andre Engels andreeng...@gmail.com 
mailto:andreeng...@gmail.com wrote:


On Thu, Aug 11, 2011 at 2:20 PM, Tim François
sk1pp...@yahoo.co.uk mailto:sk1pp...@yahoo.co.uk wrote:

I've certainly never seen one of these in my 20 years in the
UK (though that doesn't mean they don't exist of course!).

Do they exist in NL or DE? If so, they'll probably have been
mapped so you could copy that?


As far as I know there is one in the Netherlands, in Assen, but
it has not been explicitly mapped (it can be found at
http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=52.96911lon=6.53868zoom=16
http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=52.96911lon=6.53868zoom=16)


Google images tells me there should be one in Amersfoort, NL also.

--
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Re: [OSM-talk-be] Difference between OSM and BING background

2011-08-08 Thread Gerard Vanderveken

Hi,

The misalignment shows on all zoom levels.
I assume this will be corrected in a few days.
The JOSM editor has some functions to align the background, but I don't
recommend it to go into that.

Regards,
Gerard.

Dirk Roels (Hotmail) wrote:

Hi,

I noticed that there is a HUGE difference in position of streets (seem
shifted over quite a distance), etc in the Mortsel area (take a look
at Deurnestraat Guide Gezellelaan area) when the map is enlarged
(closer look). Is this normal behaviour? if so... is it a problem? if
so... does the map have to be aligned to the BING-background and to
what degree can the BING-background be trusted? or is it something
that should be/needs to be corrected?

Cheers,
Dirk

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Re: [OSM-talk-be] Knooppuntennetwerken (Regional walking networks)

2011-08-06 Thread Gerard Vanderveken


Not yet tested, but visuals looking good.
A few problems remarked:

   trkseg
   /trkseg
   trkseg
   /trkseg
These are empty tracksegments, probably from ways that were not loaded 
in JOSM at the time of export.

(Verification or ad-hoc loading possible?)

   trk
   nameZuid-Dijleland 516-517/name
   srcOpenStreetMap.org/src
   typefoot/type
   trkseg
   trkpt lat=50.8380263 lon=4.6383458 /trkpt
   trkpt lat=50.8380824 lon=4.6383702 /trkpt
   /trkseg
   trkseg
   trkpt lat=50.8399611 lon=4.6345633 /trkpt
   trkpt lat=50.8397422 lon=4.634788 /trkpt
   trkpt lat=50.8395173 lon=4.6352819 /trkpt
   trkpt lat=50.8390851 lon=4.6359434 /trkpt
   trkpt lat=50.8387191 lon=4.6365035 /trkpt
   trkpt lat=50.8383876 lon=4.6375474 /trkpt
   trkpt lat=50.8381468 lon=4.6382006 /trkpt
   trkpt lat=50.8380824 lon=4.6383702 /trkpt
   /trkseg
   /trk
/gpx
In this last track the tracksegments are in opposite directions, both 
ending with the middle node trkpt lat=50.8380824 lon=4.6383702 /trkpt

This should be ordered  to get one long way.
Relation manager has no problems in doing that:
http://osmrm.openstreetmap.de/relation.jsp?id=1689797
Click +   'download GPX' (GPX is with route points)
rte
name/
srcOpenStreetMap.org/src
typefoot/type
rtept lat=50.8380263 lon=4.6383458/
rtept lat=50.8380824 lon=4.6383702/
rtept lat=50.8381468 lon=4.6382006/
rtept lat=50.8383876 lon=4.6375474/
rtept lat=50.8387191 lon=4.6365035/
rtept lat=50.8390851 lon=4.6359434/
rtept lat=50.8395173 lon=4.6352819/
rtept lat=50.8397422 lon=4.634788/
rtept lat=50.8399611 lon=4.6345633/
/rte

Possible extensions for the code
- verifying it is a collection ralation
- file dialog to set map and name of exportfile

Regards,
Gerard

Jo wrote:


Now it also exports the routes of a collection relation as points:
...


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Re: [OSM-talk-be] Knooppuntennetwerken (Regional walking networks)

2011-08-03 Thread Gerard Vanderveken


Alternative is in stead of a route to use track
?xml version=1.0 encoding=UTF-8 standalone=yes?
gpx xmlns=http://www.topografix.com/GPX/1/1; 
http://www.topografix.com/GPX/1/1 creator=OSM Route Manager 
version=1.1 xmlns:xsi=http://www.w3.org/2001/XMLSchema-instance; 
http://www.w3.org/2001/XMLSchema-instance 
xsi:schemaLocation=http://www.topografix.com/GPX/1/1 
http://www.topografix.com/GPX/1/1/gpx.xsd; 
http://www.topografix.com/GPX/1/1http://www.topografix.com/GPX/1/1/gpx.xsd
!-- All data by OpenStreetMap, licensed under cc-by-sa-2.0 
(http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/2.0/). --

   wpt lat=50.788708 lon=4.5839511
 name301/name
   /wpt
   wpt lat=50.788718 lon=4.5839521
 name302/name
   /wpt
   trk
   nameDijleland 301-302/name
   srcOpenStreetMap.org/src
   typefoot/type
   trkseg
 trkpt lat=50.788708 lon=4.5839511  /trkpt
 trkpt lat=50.788709 lon=4.5839515  /trkpt
   /trkseg
   trkseg
 trkpt lat=50.788709 lon=4.5839515  /trkpt
 trkpt lat=50.788718 lon=4.5839521  /trkpt
   /trkseg
   trk
   trk
   nameDijleland 302-303/name
   srcOpenStreetMap.org/src
   typefoot/type
   trkseg
 trkpt lat=50.788718 lon=4.5839521  /trkpt
 trkpt lat=50.788719 lon=4.5839525  /trkpt
 trkpt lat=50.788728 lon=4.5839531  /trkpt
   /trkseg
   /trk
/gpx

Advantage is the track segment trkseg element that matches the ways in 
the sub relations.

(and no need to filter out double nodes from start and end of these ways)

Regards,
Gerard.

Jo wrote:


That doesn't look too complicated, I'll look into it, tomorrow.

Jo

2011/8/2 Gerard Vanderveken g...@ghia.eu mailto:g...@ghia.eu

As a minimum you require an output file dijleland.gpx  like this
example

?xml version=1.0 encoding=UTF-8 standalone=yes?
gpx xmlns=http://www.topografix.com/GPX/1/1;
http://www.topografix.com/GPX/1/1 creator=OSM Route Manager
version=1.1
xmlns:xsi=http://www.w3.org/2001/XMLSchema-instance;
http://www.w3.org/2001/XMLSchema-instance
xsi:schemaLocation=http://www.topografix.com/GPX/1/1
http://www.topografix.com/GPX/1/1/gpx.xsd;

http://www.topografix.com/GPX/1/1http://www.topografix.com/GPX/1/1/gpx.xsd
!-- All data by OpenStreetMap, licensed under cc-by-sa-2.0
(http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/2.0/). --
wpt lat=50.788708 lon=4.5839511
  name301/name
/wpt
wpt lat=50.788718 lon=4.5839521
  name302/name
/wpt
rte
nameDijleland 301-302/name
srcOpenStreetMap.org/src
typefoot/type
rtept lat=50.788708 lon=4.5839511  /rtept
rtept lat=50.788709 lon=4.5839515  /rtept
rtept lat=50.788718 lon=4.5839521  /rtept
/rte
rte
nameDijleland 302-303/name
srcOpenStreetMap.org/src
typefoot/type
rtept lat=50.788718 lon=4.5839521  /rtept
rtept lat=50.788719 lon=4.5839525  /rtept
rtept lat=50.788728 lon=4.5839531  /rtept
/rte
/gpx

For every node there is a waypoint element wpt with the
coordinates and as name its ref number
For every sub relation there is a  route element rte
It contains route points rtept.
These rtept are all the nodes of the ways from the subrelation.
The streets and their nodes  need to be ordered from start to end
node (the ones with the ref tag)
Regards,
Gerard


Jo wrote:


Gerard,

If you provide me with a detailed example of what data in the osm
file, needs to become which information in the gpx, I might try
to program this in Python. It's possible to add python scripts to
JOSM.

Jo (Polyglot)

2011/8/2 Gerard Vanderveken g...@ghia.eu mailto:g...@ghia.eu

It is not an obligation to have this 'not yet official'
collection relation.
I got the idea by looking at some Alp paths, where it was
used to link all paths of the network.

Everyone can add to the Wiki (registration and login required).
But if you feel uncomfortable doing edits in a Wiki , I can
do it for you, if you send me the relevant data.
The relation has to be created first, so the reference can be
put in the Wiki

For the creation of this specialised GPX, the exporting
functions of OSM are not suitabe.
There is some programming or script required to put each sub
relation into a route and convert the  nodes to waypoints.

Regards,
Gerard.

network (as far as they exist).

Should such a collection be created for all other
knooppunten networks ?
If so, can someone update the wiki page to reflect this,
so I can properly create and tag that collection for
Rivierenland

I downloaded the gpx file  from Zuid-Dijleland. I

Re: [OSM-talk-be] Knooppuntennetwerken (Regional walking networks)

2011-08-02 Thread Gerard Vanderveken


As a minimum you require an output file dijleland.gpx  like this example

?xml version=1.0 encoding=UTF-8 standalone=yes?
gpx xmlns=http://www.topografix.com/GPX/1/1; creator=OSM Route 
Manager version=1.1 
xmlns:xsi=http://www.w3.org/2001/XMLSchema-instance; 
xsi:schemaLocation=http://www.topografix.com/GPX/1/1 
http://www.topografix.com/GPX/1/1/gpx.xsd;
!-- All data by OpenStreetMap, licensed under cc-by-sa-2.0 
(http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/2.0/). --

   wpt lat=50.788708 lon=4.5839511
 name301/name
   /wpt
   wpt lat=50.788718 lon=4.5839521
 name302/name
   /wpt
   rte
   nameDijleland 301-302/name
   srcOpenStreetMap.org/src
   typefoot/type
   rtept lat=50.788708 lon=4.5839511  /rtept
   rtept lat=50.788709 lon=4.5839515  /rtept
   rtept lat=50.788718 lon=4.5839521  /rtept
   /rte
   rte
   nameDijleland 302-303/name
   srcOpenStreetMap.org/src
   typefoot/type
   rtept lat=50.788718 lon=4.5839521  /rtept
   rtept lat=50.788719 lon=4.5839525  /rtept
   rtept lat=50.788728 lon=4.5839531  /rtept
   /rte
/gpx

For every node there is a waypoint element wpt with the coordinates and 
as name its ref number

For every sub relation there is a  route element rte
It contains route points rtept.
These rtept are all the nodes of the ways from the subrelation.
The streets and their nodes  need to be ordered from start to end node 
(the ones with the ref tag)

Regards,
Gerard


Jo wrote:


Gerard,

If you provide me with a detailed example of what data in the osm 
file, needs to become which information in the gpx, I might try to 
program this in Python. It's possible to add python scripts to JOSM.


Jo (Polyglot)

2011/8/2 Gerard Vanderveken g...@ghia.eu mailto:g...@ghia.eu

It is not an obligation to have this 'not yet official' collection
relation.
I got the idea by looking at some Alp paths, where it was used to
link all paths of the network.

Everyone can add to the Wiki (registration and login required).
But if you feel uncomfortable doing edits in a Wiki , I can do it
for you, if you send me the relevant data.
The relation has to be created first, so the reference can be put
in the Wiki

For the creation of this specialised GPX, the exporting functions
of OSM are not suitabe.
There is some programming or script required to put each sub
relation into a route and convert the  nodes to waypoints.

Regards,
Gerard.

network (as far as they exist).

Should such a collection be created for all other knooppunten
networks ?
If so, can someone update the wiki page to reflect this, so I
can properly create and tag that collection for Rivierenland

I downloaded the gpx file  from Zuid-Dijleland. I was hoping
to get the collection of knooppunten as waypoints.
The result was disappointing (import in Garmin RoadTrip). Too
many routes, even non-existing, waypoints without the number
of the knooppunt.

Is there a better way to retrieve the information as GPX ? I
would already be happy with the knooppunten alone, without the
routes between them.
I've tried exporting them from JOSM, but this also looses the
number (which only exists as rwn_ref).


Marc



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[OSM-talk-be] Problems with JOSM's unwanted behaviour.

2011-07-11 Thread Gerard Vanderveken


Hi,

(Warning: long and difficult subject matter ahead! :-)  )

I love to work with JOSM, but I have two problems with JOSM.

- When you start drawing a way somewhere in a node, JOSM always assumes 
you want to continue some way already present.
This is very annoying and unproductive, because this is nearly always 
not what you wanted or intended.


- When you split a way, the old id (and by consequence its history) are 
always in the first part, and the second part gets a new id.
This way the history and id can be left by the smallest part. It should 
always assigned to the  biggest part.


Togheter this combination defeats totally the wiki nature of OSM by 
disguising  the history of one road to some totally unrelated road in 
the neighbourhood, also making changes to roads the user never intended 
to edit.

An example is in changeset
http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/changeset/7203063
First there was the Verstrekenstraat.
http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/98440181
When the user TAA tried to add a track,
http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/82861117
from this crossing
http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/node/298362740
JOSM maked this as a continuation of the Verstrekenstraat
It was then splitted and adapted to track by the user who didn't want 
this long Verstrekenstraat.
But as this road had the node, where the drawing took place, as starting 
node, the track end became the new starting node of the resulting way 
and got after the split the id of the Verstrekenstraat.
After the split, (because the user wanted to add a track and not make a 
long Verstrekenstraat), JOSM moved the existing id (and history) to the 
new drawn track and maked a new road out of the already existing 
Verstrekenstraat by giving it a 0 id. In the history of the track , you 
see the original way of the Verstrekenstraat.

http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/82861117/history

An example of a node to test this unwanted behaviour is: 
http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/node/803205990 Suppose you want to 
add a track into the wood as a dead end. You select the node and then 
clicks the way drawing tool. Do a click in the wood (direction SE) and 
then escape to end drawing the segment and then you end up with an 
extended path of Voetweg 48.

Oh no, I wanted to add a track! Why is it not a blank road?
Oh, never mind, we split the result at the starting node and change 
properties of the new added part, which has now inherited the id and 
history of Voetweg 48. And on top of that the original Voetweg 48 will 
get id 0 and be presented from now on in the database as a new way 
created by you, while you even had no intention to modify it in the 
first place!!

BTW, also relations are inherited, making tails on it after the split.
I find this behaviour totally undesiable!

Another example to what mess this can lead is the Jachtdreef in 
Jezus-Eik (it still needs correction)
http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/51768961/history 
http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/108859153/history

http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/97836493/history

Conclusion:
- JOSM should only make continuations of ways on request by the user, eg 
by selecting them together with the ending node to draw from.
- For the sake of history, JOSM should give the existing id to the 
largest part of the road of a split and not defaulting to the first part.


As stopgap for the second point, I try to do a reverse of the road 
before and after the split, when I notice that the first part is very 
small..


What do you think?

I opened a ticket for this, at JOSM, but it seems a 'feature' and not a 
bug and the developer won't fix.

http://josm.openstreetmap.de/ticket/6567
Comments invited!

Regards,
Gerard.
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Re: [OSM-talk-be] Problems with JOSM's unwanted behaviour.

2011-07-11 Thread Gerard Vanderveken


Renaud MICHEL wrote:


On lundi 11 juillet 2011 at 12:22, Gerard Vanderveken wrote :
 

- When you start drawing a way somewhere in a node, JOSM always assumes 
you want to continue some way already present.
This is very annoying and unproductive, because this is nearly always 
not what you wanted or intended.
   



Press Ctrl while clicking on the end note, JOSM will start a new way.

No, this leads to a double node and the way is not connected to the 
crossing.


You can also start your new way at the second node, and then connect it to  
the end of the  other way.


I think I've seen JOSM doing  a continuation that way to, but it doesn't 
seem to happen in the example node.
However when you need to make a way between two crossings, it can come 
from either side.


- When you split a way, the old id (and by consequence its history) are 
always in the first part, and the second part gets a new id.
This way the history and id can be left by the smallest part. It should 
always assigned to the  biggest part.
   



For that, I temporarily reverse the way to have the history on the good 
part, then reverse both part back (but this is only important for ways where 
the orientation matters, like oneways or rivers).
 

That's what i try to do, when paying attention to it, but I feel JOSM 
should do it automatically.
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Re: [OSM-talk-be] Problems with JOSM's unwanted behaviour.

2011-07-11 Thread Gerard Vanderveken

Lennard wrote:

In the example (in the ticket) that node is also the endpoint of
*another*
way, and it does do a contination of *that*. However, it's made out to
appear that selecting a non-endpoint node of a way and then drawing from
that will produce a continuation. Not so.

No, you didn't understand the examples. I never sayed that a road was
boken up in the middle and then continued. It is just when you start a

I was not saying that either.

[...]

This is exactly what happens when editing at node 803205990.

This is exactly what I described.

I don't want to go into this futher, but your interpretations of my
examples were not right: Quotes:
- The example in the ticket (starting from a node in the middle of a way
produces a continuation) is convoluted as well.
- However, it's made out to appear that selecting a non-endpoint node of
a way and then drawing from that will produce a continuation. Not so.

As most often, you intend to add a new road, the default behaviour
should be like that.

I think it comes down to being of another mindset. For me, clicking an end
node to continue that way seems the natural thing to do. If it so happens
that end node is part of a crossing, so be it. I have to remember to use
ALT if I want to start a new way at the crossing.

Of course, I could be entirely spoilt from having worked this way in JOSM
for years. I thought Potlatch did the exact same thing.

No, it does not ! Tested with the example node and an unnamed new road
was created (you need shift to start drawing from the selected node) in
Potlatch 2.

Can you even do continuation of an existing road in Potlatch?

What is the
handling in Merkaartor for this situation?

According to the docs, you have the choice by having the node selected
or not, when creating a new road..

http://merkaartor.be/wiki/merkaartor/Documentation#Creating-a-new-way
and the paragraph below
http://merkaartor.be/wiki/merkaartor/Documentation#Continuing-an-existing-way-at-either-end

JOSM will always make a continuation unless stopped by the ALT-key.

(Count once your ways when editing and compare extended existing versus
added new ways)

That's not a fair comparison.

Often enough when adding new ways, you are *not* at a junction with
another way endpoint. You might be starting a new way in the middle of
nowhere, or branching off of another way, but *not* at a junction.

In my experience, when adding new ways, starting one at an 'endpoint
junction' is the exception.

This makes it even more execptional and illogical, that when you are
drawing, you get always a new way and suddenly a new way fails and your
added way is incorporated in an existing way.
But OK, narrow down the counts just for the cases in which JOSM would
be doing automatic prolongation and I'm still confident that you would
see you are more using the ALT key then not, when adding way segments.

The splitting and additional obfuscating happens, while this seems the
obvious way for most users of getting out of this unexpected alongation.
For some messy results see my examples Verstrekenstraat and Jachtdreef.

I can actually agree with your other point, being that when splitting a
way, the existing ID should stay with the longest fragment. You might
modify your JOSM ticket to emphasize that part, or perhaps even better:
start a new ticket with just that request (with a reference to the current
ticket).

I won't .
If no other users are asking, the developer won't change its point of
view or anything in JOSM regarding these two problems..
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Re: [OSM-talk-be] Weide

2011-06-30 Thread Gerard Vanderveken

Meadow is de algemene term voor grasland. Dit kan zowel een weide, 
hooiland, als een natuurlijk, wild stuk grasgebied zijn.
Pasture is specifiek een weide, dus een omheind grasveld waar dieren op 
grazen.
Op veel plaatsen is ook de weide en het hooiland mee ingemapt met de 
velden onder het algemene farmland. (is eigenlijk bijna alles wat niet 
bebouwd is, bebost is of onder water staat :-) )
Het is natuurlijk ook zo dat de indeling van veld, hooiland of weide, 
naargelang het uitkomt voor de boer, wel eens durft te veranderen en dan 
is farmland (landbouwgebied) altijd correct.


mvg
Gerard


Jo wrote:


Ik gebruik ook meadow, waarom zou dat niet goed genoeg zijn?

Polyglot

Op 30 juni 2011 22:21 schreef Franky Braem franky.br...@gmail.com 
mailto:franky.br...@gmail.com het volgende:


Ik ben nu al een paar dagen bezig met Kemzeke / Stekene in kaart
te brengen en heb nu een vraagje. Wat is de beste manier om een
weide aan te duiden waar dieren kunnen grazen? Ik gebruikte eerste
landuse=meadow, maar dat blijkt niet juist genoeg te zijn. Is het
landuse=pasture? Maar het is dan jammer dat je dat niet ziet
ingekleurd op www.openstreetmap.org http://www.openstreetmap.org.

Franky

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Re: [OSM-talk-be] Fixing administrative borders

2011-06-13 Thread Gerard Vanderveken


Benoit Leseul wrote:


Hi,

On Mon, Jun 13, 2011 at 10:16, Ben Laenen benlae...@gmail.com wrote:
 


...
My main concern is to somehow discern the border of the German language area
(after all, it's the only border not at level 4).
   



I don't know if it's realistic, but maybe the German language area
could be the only thing mapped at level 5, the other borders being
obvious?

If it's not, I stand by my proposition to tag language areas (in the
constitutional sense) instead of communities.

We are not responsible for the choices made by the governement ;-) , we 
map (the mess) as it is.


There is no German region, and thus no boundary at level 4.
There is only the community at level 5 comprising the Muncipalities of 
Amel, Büllingen, Burg-Reuland, Bütgenbach, Eupen, Kelmis, Lontzen, 
Raeren und St.Vith


Because at the governement the regions and communities are on equal 
level and we have choosen in OSM to give them a different level (which I 
support), you can not make assumptions on level 4 areas comprising level 
5 things and vice versa. So the whole discussion with overlaps etc in 
OSM is pointless. Belgium is illogical and complicated and this will 
also show on the mapping.


[Joking]
(If someone is involved in the current governement negociations, maybe 
they can ask for a region and province, etc  for Brussels and the German 
East Kantons too, so we can map this properly at all levels?)

[/Joking]

The language regions should IMHO not be mapped , and certainly not on 
the administrative boundary level.


Regards,
Gerard.
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Re: [OSM-talk-be] Workshop Trage Wegen

2011-06-11 Thread Gerard Vanderveken

I think it is a good idea to name the unnamed paths and tracks to its 
Voetweg and Buurtweg name from the Atlas if these roads exists there.
Many muncipalities are rediscovering, revaluating and inventarising 
these old and sometimes almost forgotten and often neglected roads.
Many times these unnamed paths get then signs with their Atlas name and 
number.
Sometimes when there is a local name in speaking language, the restored 
path will be baptised with that name. In that case we alter the name in 
OSM to that new name.


It will help these task groups a lot, if they find on our maps already 
an inventory of the still existing roads.
Our maps are also ready to use in displaying particular roads or road 
segments on their websites.
That way it will also spread OSM to the general public and in return we 
may benefit with survey materials from them or get some new mappers.


To me, it makes perfect sense to give all unnamed roads in OSM (tracks 
and paths) that exists in the Atlas also their Atlas name and number as 
name.


Regards,
Gerard.

Wouter Hamelinck wrote:


If it is on the street sign, I agree to put it in the name tag.
Here, they get new names in most communities. My personal favourite is
Kakhoekweg. Yes, it exists right here:
http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=50.98051lon=3.85697zoom=17layers=M
There is a sign with that name. The sign on the southern end was
recently vandalised, so go to the northern end if you would like to
check.

Map what you see in reality can never do harm.

wouter

On Sat, Jun 11, 2011 at 5:29 PM, Jo winfi...@gmail.com wrote:
 


Where trage wegen are being reinstated they are 'named' as Voetweg xx or
Buurtweg yy. Usually there is a name tag on both sides with the same number.
Occasionally there is an arrow with the name of the street the path leads
to. It doesn't hurt to use Voetweg xx or Buurtweg yy as the name when it is
on a street sign.

Polyglot

2011/6/11 Wouter Hamelinck wouter.hameli...@gmail.com
   


The convention I see for mapping buurt- and voetwegen is as follows:
name=Voetweg xx
or
name=Buurtweg yy
http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=50.88679lon=4.58564zoom=16layers=M
   


In fact, using the name tag is mainly a bad idea because in the Atlas
der Buurtwegen/Atlas des Chemins Vicinaux every chemin/sentier has a
name along with the number. But as far as I know those names are not
used today except when they survived time and are still used as
regular street names. As an example, the street where I live is in the
atlas Chemin no. 3 and has the name Oudenpontweg. Today it is a
regular street of which the major part is named Kerkstraat and a
minor part Oude Pontweg.

Of course, the atlas is only interesting for what is today a path-like
thing. For those I have never seen a use of the name from the atlas.
In e.g. community councils it is always the number that is mentioned.

wouter


--
Wie niet in zichzelf gelooft, komt nergens.
  - Thor Heyerdahl

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Re: [OSM-talk-be] Fixing administrative borders

2011-06-09 Thread Gerard Vanderveken

Benoit Leseul wrote:

On Wed, Jun 8, 2011 at 20:27, Ben Laenen benlae...@gmail.com wrote:

Benoit Leseul wrote:

On Wed, Jun 8, 2011 at 11:18, Luc Van den Troost luc.a...@gmail.com wrote:

[...]
Comunities are made up of people, not of area. So putting
communitie-borders on the map is kind of insane.

In terms of boundaries, the belgian constitution defines four
linguistic areas (régions linguistiques/taalgebieden) but not
communities as geographical entities.

See Art. 4 :
http://www.senate.be/doc/const_nl.html#t1
http://www.senate.be/doc/const_fr.html#t1
http://www.senate.be/deutsch/const_de.html#t1

They are all contained into regional boundaries and are identical to
the regions except for the deutsche Sprachgebiet.

I think that's what should be mapped at that level (be it 4 or 5) and
it would solve the overlap problem.

The idea was to map the communities according to those language areas. If
everyone agrees to map these language areas instead of communities, fine by
me, but I just thought it would be odd to see something like région bilingue
de Bruxelles-Capitale - tweetalige gebied Brussel-Hoofdstad appear on the
map,

Sure it's not pretty, but possibly less odd than overlapping areas and
bigger sublevels than their upper counterparts.
Maybe the name could be reduced to something like Région de
Bruxelles-Capitale - Brussel-Hoofdstad since the bilingual aspect can
be implied by the double name.

and because it then looks like the maps you can find on
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communities,_regions_and_language_areas_of_Belgium
which are the maps everyone learns it with at school as well.

That's probably an oversimplification, the maps are showing competence
areas, not areas per se.
Also, I don't know that any OSM renderer shows overlapping areas with
a hatched texture.

But yeah, It's complicated and I'm not sure everyone would agree one
way or another.
It will look strange and complex in both cases, but so is reality :)

In fact for the governement, there are no overlaps. The administrative
level for federal, community and region is equal and shared.
However in OSM, we can not share these levels and so we have choosen
that federal has level 2, region has 4 and community has 5 .
(in the wiki 5 is mentioned as communities/provinces, but I would state
there simply 'language communnity', because provinces has nothing to do
with that)
Further on, there are two administrative sublevels, provinces (6) and
muncipalities (8).
The level between 6 and 8, arrondissement (7) is more a judicial or
political (voting) level.

I don't know if we realy have to map that as administrative boundary.
(You have also another level between muncipality and arrondissement, not
yet defined in OSM and that is the kanton)

As for the ordering of the levels, relations can lists others as subareas.

According to the law, Belgium has 3 regions (Vlaanderen, Wallonië en
Brussel) which are formed by provinces (except Brussels) and 3
communnities responsible for their part of the 4 language regions which
are all formed by the muncipalities.

What should we map from this?
- the regions (level 4) as subarea of Belgium (2)
- the provinces (level 6) as subarea of the regions (4)
- the muncipalities (level 8) as subarea of the provinces (6) and
communities (5) (and eventually the arrondissements (7))
I don't think that it will add anything, but confusion by defining other
levels as subarea to certain levels as eg communities to Belgium or
arrondissements to provinces.

Maybe this could also as guidelines be added to the wiki.

I see that the French Community for the moment incorporates the German
Community (Muncipalities: Amel, Büllingen, Burg-Reuland, Bütgenbach,
Eupen, Kelmis, Lontzen, Raeren und St.Vith)

http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/relation/78967
These muncipalities need some borders as they seems now to be confined
in Verviers.

http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/relation/1407211
This is not correct.
Seems also that the German Community itself is not yet defined
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/WikiProject_Belgium/Boundaries#Communities_.28Gemeenschappen_.2F_Communaut.C3.A9s_.2F_Gemeinschaften.29

Some communities has language facilities for other language groups, and
altough the other community may have some competences there as
organising school, does not mean that this muncipality is also part of
that community. I don't think there is a mapping of these language
facilities in OSM or that it should be desirable.

Other levels are the villages (9) which form the muncipalities (8) and
were independent muncipalities before the reform of 1977

eg Boechout
http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/relation/76297
in Boechout
http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/relation/76278
These could be listed as subarea in the relation too.

Level 10 could be used for hamlets, these are small local communities,
often some residential landuse around a little church or

Re: [OSM-talk-be] help needed with tagging - sports clubs

2011-04-29 Thread Gerard Vanderveken


Actually, it is leisure = fishing
eg
http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/89344008
altough rendering seems only be done when it is a single node
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:leisure=fishing

Regards,
Gerard.

Jo wrote:


This is how I tagged a football club's terrains:

http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=50.91868lon=4.999136zoom=18layers=M 
http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=50.91868lon=4.999136zoom=18layers=M


A lake is usually natural=water. A Visput would probably get 
sport=fishing added to it. If there is only one kind of fish set out 
in it, you might add produce=carp or produce=trout (forel), but that 
tag is usually used for crops, if I'm not mistaken. For the area 
around it, you could use a multipolygon, or a site relation. In a 
multipolygon you can only add inner/outer roles, which is great for 
landuse and natural places. To a site relation you can add the 
perimeter and the entrances as roles and other things like parking 
lots (without roles).


I hope that helped,

Jo

2011/4/29 Marc Gemis marc.ge...@gmail.com mailto:marc.ge...@gmail.com

Hi guys,

I need some help to tag the following:

- building
- lake (visput)
- the area around it

I thought of using a multipolygon for this, but I'm unsure how to
tag this properly.

Similar: how do I tag the different fields of a soccer club  the
buildings ?

Any examples that I can use ?

thanks in advance for your help

m




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Re: [OSM-talk-be] Cell Phones Antennas

2011-04-24 Thread Gerard Vanderveken

There are two things wrong:
- The antenna at the site of BIPT is placed not on the roof of the
building but above the white tent / parasol of the terrace (See their
Google map with satelite view).

(Are the antennas in front of the building against the wall?)
- The street before the cafe in OSM is running through this terrace
(see Bing sattelite view).

(The way is not actualy a street but the border of the market place)
the actual street should be located more south-west.
http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/91685551
Why do you convert the location in degrees, minutes and seconds as the
BIPT site has already 2 formats?

Coordonnées: 3.95292 E / 50.45506 N
Lambert: X: 120473 / Y: 127218 m
http://www.openstreetmap.org/?mlat=50.45506mlon=3.95292zoom=18
Seems the same location as on BIPT.
Regards,
Gerard.

Linusable wrote:

I have tried a few times this converter website :
the world coordinate converter http://twcc.free.fr/
From my point of view, it's OK, at least for the geodetic points i
tested. It could be interesting to discuss and chek some original data
for a few antenna, like the one i mentionned on the cafe 'Le Central',
grand place of Mons,

I have seen on the website of IBPT: http://www.sites.ibpt.be/ that the
position 3° 57' 10.5 E / 50° 27' 18.2 N for the above mentionned
point was also a few meters on the grand place, with the google images

Regards,
Linusable

Le 23/04/11 15:47, Ben Abelshausen a écrit :

It is possible the coordinate conversion was not very accurate but
the source data was. I had some problems before converting Lambert
coordinates and got about the same deviations.

Regards,

Ben

On Fri, Apr 22, 2011 at 9:59 PM, Linus Able linusableli...@yahoo.fr
mailto:linusableli...@yahoo.fr wrote:

Hello everybody, Hello Pol,

i should want to question the accuracy of the data. I have seen
(before Pol deleted the data) one of the antenna points on the
(openstreetmap) Grand-Place de Mons, in JOSM, with Bing aerial as
background. The point is café Le Central, at the corner of Grand
Place with rue de Nimy. I suppose the Antenna is on the roof,
but it appeared a few meters on the Grand Place, with a
difference of about 5-10m compare to the Bing images.

What is wrong (or imprecise) : antenna coordinates or Bing
position ?

In order to investigate Bing positionning around Mons, I checked
against a geodetic point from ign/ngi (www.ngi.be
http://www.ngi.be), using Fiche Planimétrique45D06C1, with a
survey point at position N 50.47149281234526 E 4.028218331187543
(Obourg). It seems that the error is less than 1-2 meters.

My naive first conclusion is that the accuracy of the antenna

positions could be quite poor, specially in dense area (towns or
cities). This could result to absurd situations like antenna on
streets.

Maybe it could be interesting to use a script to analyse distance
of antenna (from the data files) with nearest streets ? or
another standard procedure ?

Regards,

Linusable

Le 22/04/11 16:33, Pol a écrit :

I deleted them this morning and as long as the situation is not
clear.

-φol d.-

On Fri, Apr 22, 2011 at 10:22, Gerard Vanderveken g...@ghia.eu
mailto:g...@ghia.eu wrote:

I was looking up some on the map, but it seems that
tower:type = communications is not rendered anymore???
I tought they were before, altough only in Osmarender, cfr
VRT radio and tv towers in Overijse - Wavre.

I see some have a name, but I'm affraid that it won't add
much, but instead duplicating and cluthering the rendering
and names of the current places (buildings like churches etc)
http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/changeset/7911333
Some has also very generic names eg. watertoren, kerk, etc

There is a Wiki about GSM in the Belgian project

http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/WikiProject_Belgium/Mapping_resources#GSM.2FUMTS_antenna_sites

Should the points not to be deleted, until the status about
their use becomes clear??
For the moment it is obvious that it is forbidden data.

Regards,
Gerard.

Pol wrote:

Hello,

I contacted them this morning and they asked me to write
down a mail explaining the request, why, etc etc etc.
That's what I did. If you want a copy of the mail (in
french), just contact me in private.

They told me that they will forward the mail to their law
departement and I should expect an answer next week.

Let's cross our fingers ! ;) I'll keep you updated of the
situation !

By the way, I'll be at the hackdemocracy this Thursday,
April 28,
2011: http://www.meetup.com/HackDemocracy/events/17010026/

Have a nice day all.

-φol d.-

On Thu, Apr 21, 2011 at 22:14, Pol d.paol

Re: [OSM-talk-be] Introduction

2011-04-15 Thread Gerard Vanderveken


Hi and Welcome!

I assume you use the Atlas for looking up 'trage wegen' (slow roads)
Then it is as said  in full Voetweg (sentier) or Buurtweg (chemin) 
followed by a number eg Voetweg 23

Example of Sint-Agatha-Rode (and area around)
http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=50.77504lon=4.63516zoom=15layers=M
Mosttimes they are in agricultural areas, because in the villages,  
roads are paved and have names of their own.
So they will be mosttimes  tagged as track when there is a 'karrespoor' 
or as  path if it is smaller (only foot  and/or bike).
If it is paved, it can be a minor or unclassified.road, but then it will 
probably be named.
Footway and cycleway are tags for (mosttimes) paved paths inside the 
villages dedicated for pedestrians and cyclists by the round blue 
traffic signs.


JOSM is the editor of choice.

Regards,
Gerard.


Jo wrote:


Hi Marc,

In JOSM, you can use aerial photography on the background by selecting:

Luchtfotografie/Bing Sat

in the menu.

Then you can align your ways on those as well.

As the name I would have put 'Buurtweg 23'. We don't use abbreviations 
in the names. (Except if BW23 is what you actually found on the name tag)


Polyglot

2011/4/15 Marc Gemis marc.ge...@gmail.com mailto:marc.ge...@gmail.com

Thanks everybody for confusing me even more ;-)
Anyhow, I downloaded JOSM and added my first 'buurtweg' BW 23
Hopefully, I took the right conclusions for the tags

regards

m

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Re: [OSM-talk-be] Introduction

2011-04-15 Thread Gerard Vanderveken


Hi,

Tags are good.
Except segregated = no is only to be used with footway and cycleway.
So, delete this tag.

The name in full, name = Buurtweg 23
I don't know where you get this BW23 from. It is not indicated as such 
in the atlas:

http://gis1.provant.be/Geoloketten/geoloket.jsp?geoloketid=55

surface = unpaved is good unless you know it more specific and then you 
can specify  dirt,  grass, gravel, etc.

http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:surface?uselang=nl
For tracks you can also use the  tracktype
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/NL:Map_Features#Type_veldweg_of_bospad

Regards,
Gerard.

Marc Gemis wrote:


Hi Jo,

The signs of the buurtwegen en the voetwegen always have the 
abbreviated name BW23 or VW51, followed by the name of the residential 
road to which the are leading (and thus different on both sides). I'll 
look into aligning the BW23 with the aerial photo


regards

m

On Fri, Apr 15, 2011 at 9:58 PM, Jo winfi...@gmail.com 
mailto:winfi...@gmail.com wrote:


Hi Marc,

In JOSM, you can use aerial photography on the background by
selecting:

Luchtfotografie/Bing Sat

in the menu.

Then you can align your ways on those as well.

As the name I would have put 'Buurtweg 23'. We don't use
abbreviations in the names. (Except if BW23 is what you actually
found on the name tag)

Polyglot

2011/4/15 Marc Gemis marc.ge...@gmail.com
mailto:marc.ge...@gmail.com

Thanks everybody for confusing me even more ;-)
Anyhow, I downloaded JOSM and added my first 'buurtweg' BW 23
Hopefully, I took the right conclusions for the tags

regards

m

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Re: [OSM-talk-be] etymology of street names

2011-04-08 Thread Gerard Vanderveken


I would put it in the description tag
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:description
eg
name = Henri Farmanstraat
description = Luchthavenpionier, 1874-1958

If existant, you could add an Wikipedia link
wikipedia =  en:Henri_Farman

Most people and locations have a page on a website (to be used with the 
url tag) or blog from a cultural or historic associaton :

eg
http://www.bloggen.be/huldenberg/archief.php?ID=74
could be added for De Tomme
http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/83210315

Regards,
Gerard.

Jo wrote:

Er zijn enorm veel straten vernoemd naar burgemeesters. De meeste 
daarvan gaan geen Wikipediapagina hebben.


So many streets are named after mayors. Most of those won't have a 
dedicated Wikipedia page.


Jo

2011/4/8 Johan Huysmans johan.huysm...@inuits.be 
mailto:johan.huysm...@inuits.be


Een wikipedia tag bestaat reeds.
Alle info over de combinatie van wikipedia en openstreetmap vind
je hier: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Wikipedia

Ik zou die specifieke informatie niet toevoegen, maar wel dan de
link naar de wikipedia pagina voor die persoon.

Groeten,
Johan


On 04/08/2011 09:34 AM, Jo wrote:


In Gent I find the following in the name tags:

Henri Farmanstraat ((Luchthavenpionier, 1874-1958))
Vincent Evrardlaan ((Oud burgemeester van Gentbrugge, 1896-1995))
Guido Gezelle straat ((Dichter, 1830-1899))

Interesting information, but technically not really part of the
name of the street. (Nobody will add that as part of an addres).
Still, I also already wanted to be able to add this information.
Can this information be stored in a name:etymology-tag? And while
we're at it, we may be able to add a link to Wikipedia as well?

name:wikipedia=nl:Guido Gezelle

What do you think?

mvg,

Jo


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Re: [OSM-talk-be] outer airport????

2011-02-16 Thread Gerard Vanderveken


Hij staat in de lijst van verdwenen luchthavens (pos 80)
http://www.bamfbamrs.be/Dillien/OO-AERODROMES DISPARUS.doc

mvg
Gerard

Karel Adams wrote:


Op 16/02/2011 14:42, Luc Van den Troost schreef:


Volgens OSM ligt hier
http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=50.854451lon=3.985033zoom=18layers=M 


outer airport


- Edited by xybot at 2010-12-17T21:14:15Z
- Edited by bcrosby at 2010-12-17T00:53:45Z



- *aeroway*: aerodrome
- *name*: Outer Airport
- *source*: ourairports.com


Blijkbaar geimporteerd van een externe bron. Iets van vliegaktiviteit 
op die
plaats (in het verleden) vindt ik op het web niet terug. Een 
vliegplein -
zelfs voor modelvliegtuigjes - is er me niet bekend. Op de 
luchtfoto's staan

er in de buurt alleen tractorsporen.



Er is daar inderdaad ooit een privé ULM-strip geweest, heeft ooit ook 
in de AIP* gestaan maar is er nu niet meer te vinden. Ik denk dat dit 
veilig kan verwijderd worden, zelfs als het nu nog in gebruik is dan 
is het niet-officieel en dus zonder enige waarde voor buitenstaanders.


Overigens: zulke terreintjes komen en gaan, er was er ooit eentje 
ergens in het Waasland, en een ander te Merchtem. Vandaag is er nog 
eentje in Neerpelt (EBNE)(51 12 43N - 005 28 43E), daar ligt zelfs een 
seinenveld; het heeft ook wat meer kans op een langer leven denk ik.


Bemerk dat België enkel vliegbewegingen toelaat, zelfs van ULM's en 
van radiobestuurde modellen, vanaf erkende terreinen. Dit in 
tegenstelling tot bv. Frankrijk waar ULM's vanaf privé-terrein mogen 
gevlogen worden.


Die hele import uit ourairports vind ik een spijtige zaak, al was het 
maar omdat ieder vliegterrein er airport wordt genoemd in de beste 
US-traditie. Op en.wikipedia is daar ook al flink over gediscuteerd.


Karel (ULM-piloot)(en aanspreekbaar voor AIP-informatie)

*de AIP is de VOLLEDIGE collectie van OFFICIELE 
burgerluchtvaartinformatie, en moet bestaan in elke lidstaat van de 
ICAO. Verstandige landen zetten hem gewoon publiekelijk online, in 
deze bananenrepubliek moet men er een toegang voor aanvragen. Wat dan 
weliswaar vlot en kosteloos verloopt...



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Re: [OSM-talk-be] University of Delaware

2011-02-13 Thread Gerard Vanderveken


Karel,

Ik kan je daar in helemaal bijtreden. 

Nu met de Bing sattelietbeelden is het mogelijk om  nog een boel 
straten, wegen en paden toe te voegen.

Ook nog een aantal reeds gemapte straten kunnen beter worden uitgelijnd.
Tip: Om straten zonder naam te vinden is er de handige validatie funktie 
in JOSM.

- Klik ergens op een witgedeelte, zodat er niets meer geselekteerd staat.
- Klik op validate
- Probeer zoveel mogelijk van de opgegeven fouten (kruisende wegen, 
wegen zonder naam, eindpunten bij een andere weg, ...) te herstellen of 
aan te vullen.


Het is ook aan de applikatieontwikkelaars om te bepalen welke gegevens 
precies nodig zijn voor een bepaalde toepassing.
Het heeft weinig zin om allerlei sleutels te gaan uitvinden om daarmee 
gegevens te gaan toevoegen, die misschien leuk staan in andere 
projekten, maar die dan binnen OSM niet gebruikt worden en alleen 
ballast vormen in de database.


mvg
Gerard.


Karel Adams wrote:


Op 13/02/2011 10:32, filip wolters schreef:



Beste mappers,

Bij de image of the week hebben ze het over een project op de 
University of Delaware site http://maps.rdms.udel.edu/map/index.php
Zoiets had ik ook graag binnen OSM gezien. Als je bv op Trabant 
University Center klikt krijg je een foto, beschrijving e.a. te zien.
Bij openstreetmap zou je b.v. foto, adres, link naar wikipedia en 
website, openingsuren, luisterboeken toerisme en dergelijke kunnen 
meegeven.
Hoe zien jullie OSM in de toekomst, welke toepassingen enz. Als we 
meer informatie willen weergeven zullen we toch naar verschillende 
lagen moeten of zoals een toepassing hierboven aangegeven.



Filip, met alle respect maar ik vind dat dit geen prioriteit mag zijn. 
Hoo schoon ik het allemaal ook vind, we moeten de essentie van het 
project respecteren, en dat heet nog steeds openSTREETmap. Al de rest 
mag er zeker bijkomen, er is daar niets verkeerds aan. Integendeel, 
het is met zulke zaken dat men een buitenstaander kan overtuigen dat 
OSM een meerwaarde kan hebben boven de commerciële aanbieders.
Maar ons eerste doel moet zijn om een compleet stratenplan van België 
te hebben en daar zijn we nog héél ver vandaan.
Mijn eigen streefdoel is dan ook om zoveel mogelijk straten te mappen 
met de bare essential informatie: straatnaam, wegnummer indien 
toegekend, en classificatie - waarbij ik nog moeilijk doe over de 
nuances tussen residential-unclassified C. Zaken die ik er soms 
bijzet zijn points of interest zoals winkels, scholen, horeca; en 
tegenwoordig ook al eens wat huisnummers.
Let wel dit is slechts mijn visie; bovenal moet iedere toevoeging van 
correcte en relevante informatie op prijs worden gesteld. Eenieder 
stelt zijn eigen prioriteiten, alleen vind ik het spijtig dat er veel 
energie gaat naar zaken die _in_mijn_ogen_ bijkomstig zijn, terwijl er 
nog zoveel essentieel werk ligt te wachten.

Karel.





Groeten Filip





 




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Re: [OSM-talk-be] och, een speeltje uit de vrije software

2011-02-11 Thread Gerard Vanderveken


Marc,

Je bent wel zeer hardleers.
Je bent reeds herhaaldelijk gewaarschuwd om deze data niet meer voor te 
stellen, omdat ze NIET kompatibel is met de OSM licentie en dus ook niet 
mogen gebruikt worden binnen OSM.

http://www.mail-archive.com/talk-be@openstreetmap.org/msg00557.html
(en volgende)
Ten onrechte blijf je de gegevens voorstellen als vrije data, wat ze 
helemaal niet zijn.


Ik krijg ook meer en meer de indruk dat je niets liever wil dan het OSM 
projekt te saboteren in plaats van het mee te willen vooruit helpen.


Gerard.


Marc Coevoet wrote:


Besten,

ik heb enkele tabellen eens overhoop gegooid, en lekker versneden tot 
fijne lokale vleeswaren:


De haltes van de lijn per gemeente, per deelgemeente,

http://www.dxradio.byethost14.com/delijn/

Veel plezier!

(ps: t'is ook maar een vrije kopie van wat ze al lang bij de lijn 
hebben als Professionele Distributieketeltjes)

Marc

ps: klopt de ps wel?




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Re: [OSM-talk-be] Bingify Belgium

2010-12-23 Thread Gerard Vanderveken


Hi all,

I'm mostly adding new paths and tracks around Huldenberg with JOSM, 
using Bing (and previously Yahoo) to correct ways and adding landmark 
buildings in connection of the new material.

http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=50.7876lon=4.5993zoom=13layers=M

Gerard.

Jo wrote:

I'm working around Bekkevoort, Bierbeek and Leuven. I was almost 
considering to buy a balloon or a kite, or make a ride on a balloon to 
make my own aerial imagery. Some features are next to impossible to 
map by surveying. (forests, rivers, lakes, buildings, landuse). So I'm 
really grateful with Bing's decision to let us use their imagery.


I noticed that around Leuven/Diest all the imagery is 3 years old. Of 
course some things have changed in the mean time, but mostly it's very 
useable and certainly better than nothing at all.


I try to make landuses as big as possible and I do connect it to the 
highways. It gives the best result when exporting to PDF and printing 
them, especially at high zoom levels. When working on a region I first 
trace the smaller features like buildings, orchards, forests, then 
residential/commercial landuse, then farmland. in between.


The quality of the map is increasing tremendously, hopefully the 
database won't get overloaded...


Jo





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Re: [OSM-talk-be] trunk crossroads and cyclerouting

2010-12-06 Thread Gerard Vanderveken


Hi,
I think the road is wrong classified.
http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/8288162
It should be residential and part of the Celestijnenlaan and not trunk_link
http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/72912809
http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/3877191
Because that is what it is there: a crossing between the Celestijnenlaan 
and the trunk of Koning Boudewijnlaan.

http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/16771612
http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/17773075
http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/23832344
http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/73579618
As trunk_link it would link two trunks, which has no sense there.
Maybe add also the traffic signals on the two crosspoints
http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/node/16571335
http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/node/18232318
Regards,
Gerard


Klaas Gadeyne wrote:


Hi all,

At http://www.openstreetmap.org/?mlat=50.86777mlon=4.678712zoom=18layers=M
a small junction way
http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/8288162 exists between the
two parts of the Koning Boudewijnlaan (or Celestijnenlaan as you wish
:-)

This way is currently tagged as trunk_link
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Link_(highway).  However, (at
least in Belgium) trunk roads are prohibited for bicycles.
Indeed, if you try to create the shortest cycle route from
Celestijnenlaan (South) to Celestijnenlaan (North), you end up with
http://www.openrouteservice.org/index.php?start=4.6797122,50.8671213end=4.6779527,50.8683266pref=Bicyclelang=denoMotorways=falsenoTollways=false.

So it seems like trunk_link ways are also bicycles prohibited.  Does
anyone have a suggestion/thought on how to fix this?

- Changing trunk_link into primary_link seems weird (and only solves
the problem locally)
- Altering the bicycles prohibited behaviour of trunk_link sections
seems to be an option, but I don't know if this is the best thing to
do and whom to contact for that?
- Creating a separate cycleway might solve the problem locally (and
temporarily) but not in other places where the issue might exist.

Better suggestions welcome.

Thx

Klaas

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Re: [OSM-talk-be] bing!

2010-12-01 Thread Gerard Vanderveken


I have used it also with JOSM and it works great.
Much more detail then with Yahoo.
Also more recent images.
Don't know the date but seems 3 - 4 years ago.
Alignment seems very good  at Huldenberg Vlaams-Brabant (saw some 
complaints for the alignment at high zooms).


Anyway, a great improvement!

Regards,
Gerard.

Peter Leemans wrote:



For the people prefering josm (like me).

You can already us a snapshot version:

http://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/josm-dev/2010-December/005062.html 



Workes fine for me.

Regards,
Peter Leemans




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Re: [OSM-talk-be] Simpele vragen van simpele mapper

2010-11-20 Thread Gerard Vanderveken


Ik apprecieer jullie werk ook ten zeerste!
Als iemand een opmerking maakt , kan je dat op twee manieren opvatten:
- een afkeuring van je inpanningen.
- een mogelijkheid om je te helpen je werk te verbeteren.
Laat mij duidelijk zijn: het eerste is nooit mijn bedoeling en het 
tweede is mijn intentie geweest.


Het unieke van OSM  is dat het niet alleen een kaart is, maar het houdt 
ook de gegevens op een Wiki manier met geschiedenis bij.
Eerst wissen en dan opnieuw tekenen 'verslaat'  deze strategie / dit 
opzet, vandaar mijn opmerking.


Ik ben niet zo bekend in Balen, maar ik vermoed dat je bedoelt dat  de 
Kerkstraat eerst Markt moet heten en op het einde Rijsberg.

De ligging enz. lijkt mij voor de rest wel OK te zijn.

Ik werk meestal met JOSM en daar selekteer je gewoon de knoop waar de 
naam moet veranderen (of je voegt een nieuwe knoop op de bewuste plaats 
in) en dan klik je op wegen splitsen. bvb op de kruising met de 
Zandstraat(?) Selekteer dan het eerste stuk weg en wijzig de naam.
Daarna splits je verderop nogmaals bij het begin en einde van de 
Rijsberg (ontbrekende? kruising Deliestraat?, Rijsberg )
En je wijzigt de name tag in Kerkstraat (hoofdletter) en voor het 
volgende stuk in Rijsberg, enz.
Als je daarna naar de geschiedenis van de Kerkstraat gaat kijken, zie je 
dat ze veel korter is geworden (minder knopen) en in de vorige versie 
zie je al de vroegere knopen nog wel staan met daarnaast de vermelding 
(onderdeel van weg Markt of Rijsberg).

Daaruit zie je dan duidelijk de evolutie die deze straat heeft meegemaakt.

Voorbeeld is dit ingekort stukje Koxberg.
http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/37277264/history
Het andere en nu afgesplitste stuk was eigenlijk een stuk van de 
Stroobantsstraat.

http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/40608456

Zelfde manier van splitsen gebruik je ook als er bepaalde tags maar 
gelden voor een stuk van de weg bvb maxspeed=50 of alleen een gedeelte 
van de weg moet toebehoren aan een relatie bvb fiets- of busroute.


Ligt de straat niet helemaal korrekt, versleep je een beetje aan de 
knopen, of je trekt de middenstreep naar de plaats waar een bijkomende 
knoop gewenst is.


Bedoeling is dat je zoveel mogelijk de reeds bestaande  wegen en 
knoopunten behoudt.
Bedenk ook dat iets uitwissen en het daarna hertekenen, op een manier 
ook het vorige werk een stuk uitwist en op die manier een miskenning 
inhoudt van de goedbedoelde inspanningen van de vorige kaarttekenaar, 
terwijl je het stuk weg door gebrek aan geschiedenis alleen voor jezelf 
opeist..


Keep up the good work!
mvg
Gerard.

PS over appreciatie gesproken:
quote: brave maar wellicht niet erg snuggere voorganger mismeesterd heeft
Dat kan ook wel tellen!

Ivo De Broeck wrote:


Karel,

Ik begrijp je reactie heel goed (maar ik zie dat Lennard ondertussen 
je verder hielp). Kijk ook eens 
op http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/WikiProject_Belgium#Start_with_OSM 
(handleidingen)


Laat je niet afschrikken door sommige reacties. Het ergert mij soms 
ook. OSM heeft behoefte aan honderden (nieuwe en oude) vrijwilligers.


Je werk wordt zeker WEL geapprecieerd.

Op 20 november 2010 17:51 schreef Karel Adams ade...@skynet.be 
mailto:ade...@skynet.be het volgende:


Gerard, uw opmerking
quote
eerst straten wissen en ze dan opnieuw aanmaken lijkt mij niet de
juiste methode. Het best is steeds verder te werken op de
bestaande gegevens en deze bij te werken.
/quote
kwam me nogal schoolmeesterigachtig over. Ik wou eigenlijk
aanvankelijk eens goed op mijn achterste poten gaan staan, maar
zal proberen mijn ergernis constructief om te buigen.

Leg me maar eens wat volgens u de GOEDE manier is om recht te
zetten wat een of andere brave maar wellicht niet erg snuggere
voorganger mismeesterd heeft in Balen. Ik heb het hier over de
N136, vanaf het dorpscentrum noordwaarts. Zoals wel meer gebeurt
verandert deze een paar keer van naam, maar in de huidige weergave
is het Kerkstraat
tot helemaal buiten het dorp. Ik zag totnogtoe geen andere
oplossing dan deze erg lang Kerstraat verwijderen, en dan apart
nieuwe straten aanmaken. Maar dat vond ik zelf ook wel
belachelijk, zodat ik het voorlopig maar heb laten staan. Hoe dit
wel aan te pakken?

NB het staat u ook vrij wat mee te helpen, dat is toch nuttiger
dan uitvoerig in de verf te zetten hoe het NIET moet.

KA



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Re: [OSM-talk-be] Simpele vraag van simpele mapper

2010-11-19 Thread Gerard Vanderveken

Ik weet niet wat je precies gedaan hebt, maar eerst straten wissen en ze 
dan opnieuw aanmaken lijkt mij niet de juiste methode.
Het best is steeds verder te werken op de bestaande gegevens en deze bij 
te werken.

mvg Gerard

Karel Adams wrote:


http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=51.17158lon=5.21148zoom=16

Het betreft het meest oostelijke deel van de Steegsebaan; deze was 
vroeger ooit ingegeven als weet-ik-veel-wat zonder naam of wat dan 
ook. Ik had nu geprobeerd al de oude gegevens te wissen en de straat 
opnieuw aan te maken. Op het eerste zicht lijkt dat ook goed gelukt, 
MAAR:

als men een stapke uitzoomt, tot bv.




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Re: [OSM-talk-be] Doneerde ons kadaster de gebouwen aan TeleAtlas??

2010-11-17 Thread Gerard Vanderveken


Het geheel is natuurlijk een werk van lange adem.
Je kan niet zo maar even de laatste satteliet foto nemen en 5 minuutjes 
later alle bouwsels van Europa op de site staan hebben.
Ik denk niet dat het van het kadaster komt, want daarvoor staan er 
teveel onvergunde zaken op.

Eigen werk dus.

Gerard.

Tom Lauwereins wrote:


All,

Even ook gaan kijken op de google maps.
Op de maps staat mijn oude garage (was eerder een barak) er nog steeds op.
Deze ging 5 jaar geleden tegen de vlakte.
Ik weet heel zeker dat die garage op de kadaster plannen getekend stond.
Van hun luchtfoto's komt het duidelijk niet.
Ik vermoed dat ze dus oude kadaster plannen op de kop hebben kunnen 
tikken.

Kadaster plannen zijn trouwens publiek beschikbaar en op te vragen.
Men vraagt wel een administratieve taks voor het afdrukken van een stuk.

Grtjs

Tom

Op 17 november 2010 21:51 schreef Mark Van den Borre m...@markvdb.be 
mailto:m...@markvdb.be het volgende:


Vijftien jaar, was dat niet de duur van het databankrecht?

Mark

Op 2010 11 17 16:48 schreef wannes wanne...@gmail.com
mailto:wanne...@gmail.com het volgende:

 2010/11/17 Luc Van den Troost luc.a...@gmail.com
mailto:luc.a...@gmail.com:
 Even - in Antwerpen - een paar recente veranderingen bekeken op
zowel google
 maps als op de thermofoto van zoominopuwdak.
 - zone MAS is nog de oude afgebroken bebouwing getekend
 - nieuw justitiepaleis komt nog niet voor
 - enkele gesloopte gebouwen voor de Lange Wapper staan er nog
wel op.

 Deze zaken zijn gelijk op beide kaarten. Dus mn vermoeden dat
de bron gelijk
 is wordt versterkt.

 Even een paar /niet/-recente dingen bekeken.

 http://goo.gl/maps/2sNp
 - trapvormig schoolgebouw is ondertussen toch zeeeker +15 jaar oud,
 niet gerenderd
 - derde scoutslokaal (naast de kerk, +- vierkant, puntdak) is ook al
 +15 jaar oud, niet getekend.

 --
 wannes

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Re: [OSM-talk-be] Busroutes

2010-11-13 Thread Gerard Vanderveken


There is always a copyright, on data, and in fact on everything written.
Depending on the source and its associated license, we are allowed to 
use it in OSM.


Strictly seen the numbers and other texts on the bus, sign poles and 
shedules are written by De Lijn and they do also have the copyright to it.
(Must check it once, but I assume it may explicitly be marked on their 
shedules with the copyright symbol ©, altough this marking is not needed 
to own the copyright. )


They are intended to inform the public, but this does not mean that you 
have the right to duplicate for instance the complete shedules and make 
them public available.
(I think you will run into big trouble by making similar data as what is 
specified in their 'dienstroosters' available in a book or on a website 
without having the proper authorisation from De Lijn.
And in the same way, it is not because a movie is showed to the public 
that you may duplicate it.
Without some additional legislation to have automatic public domain for 
all data from public bodies, it makes no difference if the copyright is 
owned by a public or private company.)


Some things like the line numbers and names of the routes could be by 
their nature considered as common knowledge and thus public domain, but 
being public domain is AFAIK not the case for the 4 digit number and its 
source for line and stop numbers.

They should therefore not to be used in OSM

(Streetnames (which are the core of OSM) are different in that respect 
as they are given/named by the public and exists for a very long time.)


Ben Laenen wrote:


Gerard Vanderveken wrote:
 


I tend to consider them as copyrighted material, and thus forbidden to
be used at all with OSM
   




There's no copyright on factual data. The reason why we cannot import the data 
from De Lijn is because of database rights (*).


Ben


(*) actually, some people argue that this data doesn't qualify to be under 
database right, but that's another discussion.


 

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[OSM-talk-be] Busroutes

2010-11-12 Thread Gerard Vanderveken


I think you are making it all too complicated.

For most bus routes only 1 relation is sufficient.
There is no reason for doubling all routes by default.

Also making relations members of other relations is a mistake.
The data of OSM is flat and not layered.
See also Members of a route:
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Relation:route#Members
These are only ways (routes) and stops (points).

Also the renderers do not take into account these child relations:
http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=50.8752lon=4.6983zoom=14layers=Mrelation=1269869
Even not the demo project for public transport routes..
http://3liz.fr/public/osmtransport/index.php?country=Belgiumlocation=Overijse
- drag map to Leuven - click + buslines - click null

Also when you request info of a street or stop, you see immediate which
routes are passing  and you do not need to click all relations to see if
they contain other routes.

We should only map the permanent location of a route.
Temporary deviations are not needed. If a traveler goes to the stop, he
will retrieve an info board of De Lijn saying that the halt is
suspended/replaced.

For alternatives and variations there is an alternative tag.
For shorter routes, it is up to the traveler, to inform him on the times
when the bus services the required stops.

For the time being, there are no good possibilities to incorporate 
shedules etc in OSM.

Making some preparations to facilitate this is futile, because this
surpasses the normal mapping properties. Probably the needed data and/or
its form will also be determined by the application that will make them
available.
You could for example starting by using the opening hours tag and thus
indicating for a bus stop all the times when a bus passes.
Then you envisage a lot of problems:  the stop can be serviced by
several lines, there are normal days and school days, night bus, ...
To have all this in one tag or several tags, makes always a big list of
data, which will be to entered very punctual to be usable.
And the question is of any application, will be able to make good use of
it and not require another format.

To support this manually is impossible. To import it, you need clearence.
To show it, you need applications.
None of them are for the moment envisaged, so a link to the webaddress
of the routes its dienstregeling will be at the time being the best to 
offer eg:

http://reisinfo.delijn.be/dienstregelingen/
Also the amount of data is also substantial, which may not be desired to
incorporate it yet at this time.

Also the last days, the names  of the relations are changed  with
internal numbers of  De Lijn.
This may confuse the user who will not retrieve the numbers as used on
the bus, road maps, stop signs, etc by De Lijn.
The name should be clear so that a user can easy retrieve ithe presence
of a route. (Else he could start to map again the line and afterwards
discover that his work was in vain)
Furthermore, I believe these data are not public available and retrieved
from an illegal database file, where we have no copyright to.

So, I recommend:
- to use only one relation per route
- delete the doubles (backward routes).
- delete child relations and add their streets and stops to the main
relation
- use the displayed route numbering (=ref) in the name of the route.
- delete data were we have no copyright for.








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