Re: [Talk-lv] uzliimes u. c. materiaali
. nu es par to interesi arii bish shaubos :) bet labpraat redzeetu logo versijas, citaadaak es uztaisiishu savu, shausmiigo versiju =) Visvieglāk to ir risināt tā - uztaisi ļoti vienkāršas divas vai trīs skices Inkscape, iemet listē un klausies par kuru vispozitīvākās atsauksmes. Varu palīdzēt ar piepucēšanu izvēlētajam gala variantam. Lai sokas, Pēteris. ___ Talk-lv mailing list Talk-lv@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-lv
Re: [OSM-talk] Data copied from Google Maps
Hi everyone! It seems that this list is magnet for very long, but sometimes useless threads. There are several facts people should remember before invest in this discussion: 1. Common sensus/rule/whatever you call it in OSM is *not* touch copyrighted stuff without clear license/permission to use it very freely. Photos are copyrighted subject, even of your house in the street. Now, there are different *ongoing* legal discussions around the world about is it legal or not copy facts from photos. However, as long as those disputes are ongoing and haven't ended in clear court decision, we should avoid this - no matter how sweet is to have street names without doing ground survey; 2. We don't delete stuff just because we find it suspicious. Best is contact users first, get their POV, then contact data group. And that's pretty much it. We can discuss to death can we or can't we, but we won't copy stuff from Google. But we also won't delete stuff before discussing this in appropriate channels of communication. Instead of that, how about improving map using current sources - like Bing. And then going outside and writing down another bunch of house numbers and POIs. Cheers, Peter. O , 2012.11.06. 20:49 +1100, Ian Sergeant rakstīja: On 6 November 2012 20:28, Pieren pier...@gmail.com wrote: A public domain street sign does not become automagically a copyrighted derivative work just because you see it through a copyrighted photo. You are continuing to misrepresent what is at issue. 1. There are licence and contractual terms concerning the use of the StreetView service. 2. There is a possible interpretation of these conditions that may well open one or more parties to legal action from the service provider. 3. The OSM project wants to remain beyond reproach when it comes to its legal position on its data. 4. Those who wish to use such services should take the perogative to seek explicit permission to use them in the OSM context. 5. If that permission isn't obtained, we shouldn't use them. So, which of these points do you disagree with? Ian. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[Talk-lv] Melorācijas grāvji
Kā tagot melogrācijas grāvjus? Pilnu ar ūdeni varu tagot kā waterway=stream, bet kopsumā tas nav īsti pareizi. Pēteris. ___ Talk-lv mailing list Talk-lv@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-lv
Re: [OSM-talk] Bad (wrong?) OSM publicity?
Meanwhile, contributors to the crowd-sourced service OpenStreetMap Japan reacted angrily to suggestions by Mapion, a local Japanese map provider, that the crowdsourcing may have been behind errors in Apple’s maps. http://bits.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/09/25/japanese-look-for-alternatives-to-apples-maps/ Thanks Woll Newall for writing that email, OSM got nicer exposure here. Let's hope someone will be tempted to try it out :) Peter. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [Talk-lv] Eksportēt bildīti
Varbūt izmantot http://mapbox.com/tilemill/? Neesmu gan provējis. P. T , 2012-09-26 09:41 +0300, Raitis U. rakstīja: Sveiki! Ienācās ziņa, ka vienam jauniešu projektam vajag pagasta karti uz A2 lapu 14 zoomā. Ja kaut kas trūks, šie papildinās karti. Ar ko vislabāk (tb visvienkāršāk) iegūt megalielu bildīti? Kādreiz bakstījos ar Maperitive, bet šonedēļ pilnīgi nav laika ar to ņemties. Var lūdzu kāds uzrakstīt soli pa solim kādas komandas bija jāsit iekšā vēlamā rezultāta iegūšanai? ___ Talk-lv mailing list Talk-lv@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-lv ___ Talk-lv mailing list Talk-lv@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-lv
Re: [OSM-talk] Naming disputes in Ukraine
(Skipping all this, because obviously you are not that well informed about how this situation with Ukraine came into being) So, my questions to you are 1. The concrete question: Should all name tag in the Crimea be in Russian (with appropriate name:uk tags of course), even though the official language in Ukraine is Ukrainian? Oficial language in Ukraine is Ukrainian. Even Russia doesn't dispute that. So, *in my opinion*, no. 2. The general question: What exactly is the local language in an area - can we come up with some rule of thumb that says if X% of people in an area of at least Y sq km use the language... or so? I think it always have been local *official* language. As always, for other languages, including Russian, there is name:ru=* tag. Cheers, Peter. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Naming disputes in Ukraine
T , 2012-07-25 10:08 +0200, Michael Eric Menk rakstīja: On 07/25/2012 09:42 AM, Peteris Krisjanis wrote: Oficial language in Ukraine is Ukrainian. Even Russia doesn't dispute that. So, *in my opinion*, no. In my opinion, if there are multiple languages and there is a dispute, the language on the sign should be the guiding principle. If we look where I live (Norway), we have multiple official languages. But in Ukraine there is one :) Some municipalities have 4 official languages, in that case, the fist name on the sign should be in the name tag. I don't dispute that, but this is different case. There is one official language, then there is artificially created huge minority of Russians (and in some regions majority) during Soviet times, which is reason why we have this dispute here. However, I don't want to dictate what Ukrainian community should do. It's their own decision. I have other question though - maybe we should nuke name=* generic usage (or leave it for English) and stick with name:lang=*? It is very hard to detect what language is used in name=* as you should use outside prererences, etc. Cheers, Peter. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [Talk-lv] Talsi + iespējams apkārtne
JOSMā iezīmē attiecīgos punktus/ceļus un pabīdi par nobīdes apjomu? Citu variantu vienkāršāku nezinu :) P. P , 2012-07-23 10:39 +0300, Lauris Bukšis-Haberkorns rakstīja: Es to zinu :) bet šajā gadījumā ne par to ir jautājums. Mani vairāk interesētu kāds būtu labākais risinājums kā sabīdīt visu atpakaļ. revert gluži taisīt negribētos, jo cilēks tomēr centies un varbūt arī ne tikai pārbīdījis visu, bet kaut ko pielicis klāt, bet tajā pašā laikā negribas arī gluži visu pa punktam(-iem) bīdīt atpakaļ. Lauris 2012. gada 23. jūlijs 10:23 Marat mar...@gmail.com rakstīja: Sveiki! Dažiem WMS serveriem (piemēram, Bing http://blog.samat.org/2010/11/30/Bing-Imagery-Misaligned-at-Lower-Zooms) attēli nav 100% precīzi piesaistīti, tas ir jālabo manuāli katrā reģionā pēc GPS trekiem vai pēc citiem objektiem kas jau ir precīzi piesaistīti (JOSMā ir Adjust imagery offset.) 2012/7/23 Lauris Bukšis-Haberkorns lafr...@gmail.com: Labsrīts, Skatījos, ko bots sadarījis, un pamanīju, ka Talsos ielas aizbīdījušās par pāris metriem... Sākumā padomāju, ka bots kaut ko, bet nu tā kā diezgan lielu daļu ielu orģinālais autors esmu/biju es, tad botam nebūtu iemeslu ielas pārbīdīt kaut kur. Cik izskatās salīdzinot ar GPS trekiem, tad kāds censonis (http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/Guntis%20Ratkevics) ir pārbīdījis lielāko daļu Talsu (vismaz to daļu, kurai ir Bing satelītbildes) par pāris metriem. Pieļauju, ka tas nav darīts aiz ļauna prāta, bet visdrīzāk vienkārši nezināšanas pēc. Kāds būu labākais variants šo visu labot? Ceru, ka kādam ir kāda ideja :) Lauris P.S. Te var salīdzīnāt apmēram par cik viss ir nobīdīts: orģinālais punkts: http://www.openstreetmap.org/?mlat=57.246085mlon=22.5981624zoom=18lat=57.246085lon=22.5981624 izmainītais: http://www.openstreetmap.org/?mlat=57.2461212mlon=22.5983924zoom=18lat=57.246085lon=22.5981624 ___ Talk-lv mailing list Talk-lv@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-lv ___ Talk-lv mailing list Talk-lv@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-lv ___ Talk-lv mailing list Talk-lv@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-lv
[Talk-lv] Tūja
Sveiki visiem! http://osm.org/go/0wNyk23Z-- Pārgāju pirmo reizi ar ceļu, celiņu, taciņu, urdziņu un kempingu iezīmēšanu Tūjai no savas atmiņas. Ja kāds šajā karstajā nedēļas nogalē dodās atpūtā uz turieni un atrod ko papildināt - droši. Māju numuri, visādi veikaliņi, stūrīši kur labi atpūsties - būtu labi to iezīmēt. It īpaši lūdzu iečekot darba laikus abiem lielajiem veikaliem. Paldies jau iepriekš un labu atpūtu, Pēteris. ___ Talk-lv mailing list Talk-lv@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-lv
[Talk-lv] Bing esot pamatīgi atjaunināts
Pārbaudam un ziņojam, P. ___ Talk-lv mailing list Talk-lv@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-lv
Re: [Talk-lv] Bing esot pamatīgi atjaunināts
Ūū, Ogre arī ir, tikai problēma - JOSM vēl nerādās (džeki lielajā listē jau cepās par to). Pēteris. T , 2012-06-13 15:17 +0300, Raitis U. rakstīja: Pie Tukuma šobrīd redzu vairākas joslas. Pie Jaunogres arī ļoti dīvaini skatīties uz apsnigušiem laukiem :) Tas image analyzer strādā tikai tad, ja kāds ir pietuvinājis tajā rajonā (vai arī pēc ilgāka laika kaut kādā veidā noskenē visu) Tikko atjaunoju šo: http://www.openstreetmap.org/?relation=1895491 Ja kāds vēl pamana kādu pleķīti dod ziņu. 2012/6/13 cuu...@gmail.com cuu...@gmail.com Ir šis: http://ant.dev.openstreetmap.org/bingimageanalyzer/ patlaban izskatās viss pa vecam 2012. gada 13. jūnijs 14:58 Papuass papu...@enkurs.org rakstīja: Kāds bija iemetis karti, kur BING ir labs pārklājums Latvijā. Ir tāda vēl kaut kur? Pārbaudīju Kuldīgu, joprojām nekā sakarīga, bet neatceros, vai Skrundai (un uz augšu līdz Raņķiem) jau bija tik labas bildes. Apē arī nekā nav :) Mārtiņš On Wed, Jun 13, 2012 at 2:47 PM, Peteris Krisjanis pec...@gmail.com wrote: Pārbaudam un ziņojam, P. ___ Talk-lv mailing list Talk-lv@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-lv ___ Talk-lv mailing list Talk-lv@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-lv ___ Talk-lv mailing list Talk-lv@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-lv ___ Talk-lv mailing list Talk-lv@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-lv ___ Talk-lv mailing list Talk-lv@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-lv
[OSM-talk] Licence change tests - Howto install Ruby and deps for it on Linux
Hi everyone! Something practical - if you have struggled as I with installing correct deps for running licence change tests from https://github.com/zerebubuth/openstreetmap-license-change There is small and easy instructions for Fedora and Ubuntu/Debian https://github.com/Pecisk/openstreetmap-license-change/blob/master/INSTALL.Linux Let's finish this thing and move on! Peteris Krisjanis. p.s. sorry for cross-post ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] (dis)Honesty and Copyright
O , 2012-05-29 11:50 +0200, ce-test, qualified testing bv - Gert Gremmen rakstīja: I am really astonished about the way some users on this list react to a claim to respect (my and CC-by-SA) copyright . Hi Gert! First, keep tone civil and you won't get nasty replies as before :) And maybe recognize that OSM as in this list isn't organization, it's community, where people's thoughts differ on subjects now and then. What matters here that leadership agrees that deniers copyrights must be respected and their data removed when map will be published under ODbL The whole business of changeing license IS about copyright. If there is only a single grain of non-respect to copyright in your heads (those that are addressed, do know who I mean), why bother supporting a license change then that is about respect on copyright Everything up and running up in your heads? I would disagree here. We have group of people who work on copyright violations and so far it has been very effective. Existence of such infrastructure means that project is serious about respecting copyrights (and more serious than some big corporations). Some people responded harshly because of your tone. Yeah, data is still there, but license change hasn't actually happened yet. If TomTom or Nokia (just to mention a few major players) will find proof of the slightest infraction (well ok, a bit more then that) of copyrights, in OSM’s database they will publish that at a future moment that suits them best…. Then they would have to prove it (and inform OSM about it). That would be rather hard and knowing legalities of implicating someone's guilt, their lawyers would definitely suggest to avoid that without smoking gun. Respectfully, Peteris Krisjanis, OSM Latvia ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [Talk-lv] Google street view Latvia
Nelieto Google Maps? :) Šķiet diezgan vienkārša atbilde. Es nezinu kā tie dati nonākuši Google kartē. Visticamākais caur Google Map Maker, bet nezinu vai viņš Latvijā darbojas. Pēteris. Pk, 2012-05-18 13:24 +0300, Kārlis rakstīja: Nu man kaut kā grauž acis, kad redzu Google kartē Riga-Pasajieru dzelzceļa staciju :) Ok, pārformulēšu jautājumu:Kā lietotāji var labot kļūdas google kartēs vai ieteikt pareizāku saturu? On 05/18/12 10:16, Kārlis wrote: Vai kāds nevar iespert Googlei un pateikt, ka mums šeit nav divas oficiālās valodas? Kā šāds process varētu notikt? baigi vajag iespert ? es par shito plaanoju osma blogpostu ;D Rīga, Brīvības iela.. jau in russian arī.. http://g.co/maps/m3jes ___ Talk-lv mailing list Talk-lv@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-lv ___ Talk-lv mailing list Talk-lv@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-lv
Re: [Talk-lv] Google street view Latvia
Sveiki! Vai tikai tas nav Map Maker darbībā? Kāds negrib noskaidrot? Es gan neredzu iemeslu cepties. Neizmanto Google Maps un viss kārtībā. Pēteris. Pk, 2012-05-18 14:11 +0300, Janis Elmeris rakstīja: Un tas tika atrisināts, aizstājot ar nosaukumu Freedom Monument? Brīvības bulvāra posms no Kalpaka bulvāra līdz Elizabetes ielai virzienā no centra ir Brīvības iela, bet virzienā uz centru: ул. Бривибас. :) Jānis On 2012.05.18. 14:03, Papuass wrote: Sveiki! Pameklējiet, pirms kāda laika bija skandāls par Brīvības pieminekli, kurš bija ielikts krieviski. Skaidrojums bija tāds, ka viņiem esot objekti tur, kuriem var nebūt nosaukumi latviski, bet Brīvības ielas gadījumam jau ir divās valodās. Mārtiņš 2012/5/18 Peteris Krisjanis pec...@gmail.com: Nelieto Google Maps? :) Šķiet diezgan vienkārša atbilde. Es nezinu kā tie dati nonākuši Google kartē. Visticamākais caur Google Map Maker, bet nezinu vai viņš Latvijā darbojas. Pēteris. Pk, 2012-05-18 13:24 +0300, Kārlis rakstīja: Nu man kaut kā grauž acis, kad redzu Google kartē Riga-Pasajieru dzelzceļa staciju :) Ok, pārformulēšu jautājumu:Kā lietotāji var labot kļūdas google kartēs vai ieteikt pareizāku saturu? On 05/18/12 10:16, Kārlis wrote: Vai kāds nevar iespert Googlei un pateikt, ka mums šeit nav divas oficiālās valodas? Kā šāds process varētu notikt? baigi vajag iespert ? es par shito plaanoju osma blogpostu ;D Rīga, Brīvības iela.. jau in russian arī.. http://g.co/maps/m3jes ___ Talk-lv mailing list Talk-lv@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-lv ___ Talk-lv mailing list Talk-lv@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-lv ___ Talk-lv mailing list Talk-lv@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-lv ___ Talk-lv mailing list Talk-lv@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-lv ___ Talk-lv mailing list Talk-lv@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-lv
Re: [Talk-lv] Nākošie kartēšanas pasākumi
Varētu taisīt Limbaži/Tūja pasākumu :) Tādā es ar lielu garantiju šovasar piedalītos. Pēteris. Pk, 2012-05-18 17:04 +0300, Gints Polis rakstīja: Nākošie kartēšanas pasākumi jātaisa Tukumā vai Limbažos. Ļoti švaki izskatās. -- Ginc ___ Talk-lv mailing list Talk-lv@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-lv ___ Talk-lv mailing list Talk-lv@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-lv
Re: [OSM-talk] Worst of OSM
Hi! For parody it has quite a attacking tone. But I was forgot about Best Of OSM. Looks nice, needs some additions for my country, but it's something I can show when someone asks what OSM can provide. Peter. O , 2012-05-15 14:01 +0100, Gregory rakstīja: It's a great site. It shows the variety and reach of OSM work. It's also fun to look at the older posts, click the links, and see improvements. Calling Worst of OSM is because there is the http://bestofosm.org/ website and the opportunity for parody, but I can see that will have the danger of upsetting someone. There will be reasons why the owner is anonymous and it allows for anonymous submissions. I agree comments should be enabled. Hopefully the owner of the site will see this thread, or perhaps we should request it using the submissions form. On 15 May 2012 12:57, Maarten Deen md...@xs4all.nl wrote: On 2012-05-15 12:33, Martin Koppenhoefer wrote: I couldn't find a contact possibilty on the page, that's why I try it here. Worst of OSM is a nice idea IMHO: http://worstofosm.tumblr.com/ What I really miss though is a possibility to comment / discuss the examples. This could help to explain the context of the screenshot as well as discuss some examples which might be disputed. I agree. I have looked at some examples, and while some are just caused by the nature of our (armchair) mapping (non-existing roadnames in Brazil) and some seem to be correct (the street-like boundaries on a mountain on Java), some really need discussing and fixing, like the crossing in (Leipzig)-Schönau, which has been tidied up, but is still broken IMHO (mapping every single lane is not a good idea IMHO), and like the 3% of villages in Spain example, which looks like an automated import gone wrong. Regards, Maarten ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk -- Gregory o...@livingwithdragons.com http://www.livingwithdragons.com ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [Talk-lv] Google street view Latvia
Sveiks! Pateicies par šo absurdu karšu veidotājiem, jo tieši viņi panāca likumu/līgumu izmaiņas, kas neļauj pat noklepoties šajā virzienā. Un tā kā likums nenosaka - cik daudz ir par daudz - labāk neriskēt. Pēteris. O , 2012-05-15 14:32 +0300, Pilnais vārds rakstīja: Da labi! nopietni??? Paskatijies googles bildēs, un ieliki OSMā adresi, un tu esi kaut ko pārkāpis??? c'mon. Ja tādā veidā saliktu visu pilsētu, tad vēl var būt jautājums par autortiesībām, bet pielabot dažus numurus... kā kāds tev var pierādīt, ka tu tos numurus tur neievēroji garām ejot??? Šis jau aiziet līdz apsurdam. Citējot cuu...@gmail.com cuu...@gmail.com: Gūt apstiprinājumu manā skatījumā gan var, jo tad tu neko nekopē. Reku līdzīgs jautājums: http://help.openstreetmap.org/questions/710/can-i-use-google-streetview-to-help-create-maps Rādās, ka drošākais būs sev pieņemt: nedrīkst, neko nedrīkst. Tiešas rakstiskas atļaujas no Google nav, toties iekš TOS [1] ir 2. Restrictions on Use. Unless you have received prior written authorization from Google (or, as applicable, from the provider of particular Content), you must not: (...) (g) use the Products to create a database of places or other local listings information. Ja uzradīsies atļauja, precedenti un vienprātība, tad gan būs daudz ko darīt! Bet patlaban arī interesanti virtuāli pa savu rajonu pavazāties :-) [1] http://maps.google.com/help/terms_maps.html ___ Talk-lv mailing list Talk-lv@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-lv -- Tavs bezmaksas pasts Inbox.lv ___ Talk-lv mailing list Talk-lv@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-lv ___ Talk-lv mailing list Talk-lv@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-lv
Re: [Talk-lv] KUR ? (Kartēšanas pasākums Siguldā)
Es domāju par Internetu nav jāuztraucas - vairāki laptopi/telefoni varētu kalpot kā Wifi vārtejas (caur mobilo internetu) un tad jau pārējie varēs pieslēgties. Protams bezvada wifi ar tiešo pieslēgumu būtu foršāk, bet nu strādājam ar to kas ir :) Pēteris. O , 2012-04-24 12:02 +0300, AivarsB rakstīja: kā tikšanās vieta kaķi ir ļoti ok. 2012/4/24 AivarsB vrs@gmail.com Kaķu mājā cik zinu nav interneta. Pretim ir Zaļenieku bistro - tur arī nav. Jaunbūvētajos centros (Raibais, Šokolāde) varbūt ir, bet tie ir otrā pilsētas pusē. Domē gan būtu jābūt ;). Tikai vajag kādu, kas tur ielaidīs. Tur pat blakus pilsdrupas, var ar mērlenti aizskriet kādu detaļu nomērīt. :) 2012/4/24 Laura Cimža laura.ci...@gmail.com Labrīt OSM grupa, Kaķu māja - ļoti ok izvēle, svaigasgaršīgas bulciņas beķerejā + bistro ar nopietnākiem ēdieniem. Neesmu gan 100% pārliecināta par bezvadu internetu - bet gan jau ir. To var uzzvanīt un pajautāthttp://cathouse.lv/kontakti/ No autoostas minūtes attālumā, no dzelzceļa - 3min. Lai veicas! Laura 2012. gada 24. aprīlis 11:28 Rich ric...@nakts.net rakstīja: On 04/23/12 15:19, Rich wrote: On 04/23/12 12:09, Rich wrote: On 04/21/12 13:47, Raitis U. wrote: par siguldu iipashs jautaajums vieteejiem :) kur mees tiekamies ? vislabaak laikam buutu vieta, kur var pieseest, ir free wifi utt. telpaas lapaak, ja nu smidzina vai kaa. klau. varam taa aatri uzzinaat/izdomaat ? :) varam dabuut nelielu reklaaminju, bet vajag sho te info... kaut kaa baigi taa diivaini man sanaak meegjinaat atrast tikshanaas vietu mazzinaamaa pilseetaa... nu neko. taatad, ja vien 10 minuushu laikaa nav kaadi iipashi iebildumi vai labaaki ieteikumi, tiekamies kakjii, pils ielaa 8 : http://osm.org/go/0wOY4VXM?m ___ Talk-lv mailing list Talk-lv@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-lv ___ Talk-lv mailing list Talk-lv@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-lv
Re: [Talk-lv] diivains routings riigaa
O , 2012-04-24 12:20 +0300, Raitis U. rakstīja: Tie divi noteikti nav atļauti. Šo te varētu teorētiski izbraukt, jāskatās zīmes. Tas Maskavas ielas posms vairāk gan izskatās pēc vienvirziena. http://map.project-osrm.org/l1 Īsti nē, esmu tur staigājis pirms pāris nedēļām ar savu Maskačkas kartēšanas frenzy un brīvi gan iebrauca, gan izbrauca no Maskavas ielas. Protams tikai no tuvējās joslas (līdz ar to iebrauca no Brīvības ielas puses, un izbrauca uz salu tilta pusi). Pēteris. On Tue, Apr 24, 2012 at 11:45 AM, Rich ric...@nakts.net wrote: riigaa pamaniiju paaris diivainus routinga leemumus pie slaavu tilta un pie salu tilta. varbuut kaads, kam tur sanaak tuvumaa pabuut, var paarbaudiit, vai taa tieshaam driikst braukt ? slaavu tilts : http://mapq.st/IkgGGn salu tilts : http://mapq.st/Iozc4t ___ Talk-lv mailing list Talk-lv@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-lv ___ Talk-lv mailing list Talk-lv@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-lv
Re: [Talk-lv] riigas domes smilshu kalns
Mēs kartējam faktus :P Un šis ir fakts :) Pēteris. P , 2012-04-23 13:54 +0300, Rich rakstīja: http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/node/1714358678/history tas ir taads oficiaals nosaukums ? :D ___ Talk-lv mailing list Talk-lv@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-lv
Re: [Talk-lv] Kartēšanas pasākums Siguldā
C , 2012-04-19 16:59 +0300, Rich rakstīja: On 04/17/12 17:37, Peteris Krisjanis wrote: O , 2012-04-17 17:35 +0300, Rich rakstīja: On 04/17/12 12:03, Viesturs Zarins wrote: Count me in. taa, nu ta vismaz 3 mees esam, jaataisa :) kaa ar datumiem, kuros tiek visvairaak cilveeki ? es laikam varu pielaagoties visaadi. it kaa 28. laikam daljai ir darbadiena ? Totālākā skrūve, pilnībā biju aizmirsis šo faktoru. Tad jau atliek 29. datums. klau, tad vajadzeetu vienoties par datumu, laiku un vietu (jo nezinu kam veel pashvaldiibaa uzmaakties :) ) njemot veeraa 28aa potenciaalo darbadienismu, laikam atliek tikai 29. cikos ? 10 ? 11 ? kur ? :) 29. datumā. 11tos izklausās ticamāk, kaut arī agrāk sākt nav problēmu :) Man šķiet ka neviens vietējais nav atsaucies - ja pat tāds ir. Pēteris. ___ Talk-lv mailing list Talk-lv@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-lv
Re: [Talk-lv] Kartēšanas pasākums Siguldā
Pk, 2012-04-20 10:19 +0300, AivarsB rakstīja: Ja pasākums 29jā tad es piedalos. Esmu vietējais. Ar pašvaldību kontaktu nav. Mani nedaudz satrauc pats uzdevums, jo Sigulda jau ir salīdzinoši labi nokartēta OSM. Pirmā lieta pasākumā būtu apspriede ko tad īsti darīt. To varētu darīt pie kāda no daudzajiem informācijas stendiem (ko mums vajadzētu izdarīt osm, lai tā būtu labākā karte Siguldai). Nu re, tad jau tu vari sataisīt mums uzdevumus, lai būtu lielāka jēga no pasākuma. Šobrīd izskatās, ka būs kādas 3 - 4 grupas ar dažādu mobilitātes pakāpi. Pēteris. ___ Talk-lv mailing list Talk-lv@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-lv
Re: [Talk-lv] Kartēšanas pasākums Siguldā
Tīri teorētiski kāds būtu vēlamāks laiks lai jūsu visi paspētu? :) Pagaidām es ceru ka salasīsimies pietiekams skaits :) Pēteris. O , 2012-04-17 08:25 +0300, Pēteris Brūns rakstīja: Laikam pasēšu, kūlas laiks :) -- pb 2012/4/16 Jānis Ročāns janis.roc...@gmail.com Nevaru neko solīt. Varu tikai pateikt, ja tā nogale sanāks brīvāka, tad noteikti došos, tomēr šobrīd mācību un darba režīms neļauj atpūsties. 2012/4/16 cuu...@gmail.com cuu...@gmail.com 28-ajā labprāt, 29-ajā man nesanāk--SEB MTB pirmā gonka Pēteris 2012. gada 16. aprīlis 21:07 Rich ric...@nakts.net rakstīja: On 04/11/12 18:15, Rich wrote: On 03/28/12 11:00, Peteris Krisjanis wrote: Sveiki! Tuvojas aprīlis un ja nemaldos aprīļa beigās bija ierosinājums taisīt kartēšanas pasākumu Siguldā. Es joprojām esmu ar visām četrām par. Komentāri, ierosinājumi? taa kaa es atkaavos no koleegju veelmeem mani deporteet, tad man der _28-29 apriilis_ it kaa mums apse35 ir izgaisis un jelgava laikam cietiis nopietni, bet ja jau runaajaam par siguldu, lai iet sigulda :) principaa tas ir pasaakums, ko vareetu taa labi pareklameet. a) es uzcirtiishu blogpostu; b) siguldaa noteikti ir kaada vieteejaa aviize. vai kaads zina, kas taa ir ? vai mees varam tur kaadam iebikstiit - varbuut ir interese ? c) vai mums ir dajebkaada interese no pashvaldiibas ? :) neko shausmiigi daudz nevajag - ja ir telpas ar internetu, tas jau ir daudz. citaadaak mees veel varam flashmobu uztaisiit siguldas biblioteekaa, tur laikam ir internets :D ja vel var pareklameet kaut kaadaa siguldas maajslapaa utt, veel jaukaak. hmm. kaut kaa baigais klusums par sho teemu :) vai no esoshajiem osmistiem bez manis un pecisk kaads cits arii plaano padarboties ? veel viens pluss no pashvaldiibas intereses buutu mees sadarbiibaa ar... ja nu kaadam ir pretenzijas pret diivainjiem, kas fochee vinju maajas :) es veel meegjinaashu uzcirst aatras listes ar ko njemt liidzi un kaut kaadas idejas, ko tur buutu labi saziimeet kartee. varbuut no pashvaldiibas puses arii ir kaadas veelmes ? ak jaa. jaasaaicina visi trakie draugi :) Lai sokas, Pēteris. ___ Talk-lv mailing list Talk-lv@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-lv ___ Talk-lv mailing list Talk-lv@openstreetmap.org http
Re: [Talk-lv] Kartēšanas pasākums Siguldā
O , 2012-04-17 17:35 +0300, Rich rakstīja: On 04/17/12 12:03, Viesturs Zarins wrote: Count me in. taa, nu ta vismaz 3 mees esam, jaataisa :) kaa ar datumiem, kuros tiek visvairaak cilveeki ? es laikam varu pielaagoties visaadi. it kaa 28. laikam daljai ir darbadiena ? Totālākā skrūve, pilnībā biju aizmirsis šo faktoru. Tad jau atliek 29. datums. Pēteris. ___ Talk-lv mailing list Talk-lv@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-lv
Re: [Talk-lv] pils
Kādi tagi? Pēteris. T , 2012-04-04 10:51 +0100, Andis Aboltins rakstīja: nu tā OSM ir atpakaļ un arī pils nekur īsti nav pazudusi, tik uz kartes nerāda.. Rādīja, rādīja uz pārstāja rādīt bez nekāda iemesla...Kā tā? 2012/4/2 Andis Aboltins andis.abolt...@gmail.com: Bauskas pils ir izkūpējusi. kur var redzēt kas to ir izdzēsis un kā var dabūt atpakaļ? ___ Talk-lv mailing list Talk-lv@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-lv ___ Talk-lv mailing list Talk-lv@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-lv
Re: [Talk-lv] pils
Objekts ir relācija. Jā, ir cilvēki kas paraduma pēc liek uz ārējās līnijas. Renders atradīs, bet principiāli tomēr objektam tiek piesiets vārds, nevis ārējai sienai :) P. T , 2012-04-04 12:55 +0100, Andis Aboltins rakstīja: sataisiiju :) bet kurai daļai būtu pareizi likt name tagu lai redz uz kartes? 2012/4/4 Jānis Ročāns janis.roc...@gmail.com: Redz, ku atkal parādījās! 2012/4/4 Rich ric...@nakts.net On 04/04/12 12:56, Jānis Ročāns wrote: Neizdodas pateikt, lai pārrenderē tos tiles. Pēdējo reizi pārrenderēts 2. aprīlī. http://c.tile.openstreetmap.org/18/148675/81101.png/status diffi neesot atpakalj vispaar veel. taa ka izmainjas rendereetajaa kartee varat necereet ieraudziit veel kaadu briidi :) 2012/4/4 Peteris Krisjanis pec...@gmail.com mailto:pec...@gmail.com Kādi tagi? Pēteris. T , 2012-04-04 10:51 +0100, Andis Aboltins rakstīja: nu tā OSM ir atpakaļ un arī pils nekur īsti nav pazudusi, tik uz kartes nerāda.. Rādīja, rādīja uz pārstāja rādīt bez nekāda iemesla...Kā tā? 2012/4/2 Andis Aboltins andis.abolt...@gmail.com mailto:andis.abolt...@gmail.com: Bauskas pils ir izkūpējusi. kur var redzēt kas to ir izdzēsis un kā var dabūt atpakaļ? -- Rich -- Jānis ___ Talk-lv mailing list Talk-lv@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-lv ___ Talk-lv mailing list Talk-lv@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-lv ___ Talk-lv mailing list Talk-lv@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-lv
Re: [OSM-talk] Applications systematically consuming Bing Aerial tiles
Disclaimer: I'm not a lawyer, but I have studied copyright law and cases and have actual friend as copyright lawyer (rarity even these days). There are many ways how this is not even close to any substantial copyright violation, and very few how it could be. First of all, there's not enough proof of copyright violation. There's no proof that assumed deravative work is generated using our work (So far I haven't seen lot of it, only unofficial admittance). And if there's one, it's not very substantial to variant court case of copyright violation. And even if there is violation, one thing for sure - as several people in this tread already said, this doesn't make Bing photos automatically CC-BY-SA, no matter how someone would like this. As no written commercial app including GPL code is automatically GPL. Coders just violate copyright and they are given chance to remove it, or relicense code as copyleft license requires. Also in this case not all photos are impacted, only those with blured bits. Cheers, Peteris Krisjanis. C , 2012-03-29 08:22 -0600, Martijn van Exel rakstīja: All, On Thu, Mar 29, 2012 at 3:51 AM, Elena ``of Valhalla'' elena.valha...@gmail.com wrote: On 2012-03-29 at 11:06:38 +0200, Jochen Topf wrote: The storage part is not true any more. Bing used OSM data to mask out military areas in Germany, so the Bing images are now automatically CC-BY-SA. No, they are not. If they did that (I haven't followed the related threads and I don't know exactly what happened) they would be in violation of our copyright. One of the way the could stop that violation would be to release the images under CC-BY-SA, another just as legitimate would be to stop distributing them. Having a license applying in an automatic way would not make sense: consider the case of product X owned by A and given under a restrictive license to B (the usual case with areal pics, btw); if B used X together with CC-BY-SA (or GPL) licensed product Y, A would find their product released under another license 1. against their will, 2. through no fault of their own. OK, I am officially more confused about this now than I was before asking. Thanks for all your input though. I should probably have asked the legal question separately in legal-talk. I am not a lawyer myself but I tend to agree with Elena / Simon on the matter of Bing violating the terms of the license / our copyright (whichever of the two). Whatever they did, I would say it's fair they take something back from OSM, they should just have said so. For the huge boost they gave to OSM, we should cut them some slack though. And what were 'we' going to do about it anyway? (That's a rhetoric question here, but we can follow up on legal-talk) I am still interested in instances of systematic (ab)use of Bing image tiles in OSM apps, and what your opinion is on use /abuse in the Imagery Analyzer[1]. This could impact our relation with Bing (which, according to the press, is just peachy). [1] http://mvexel.dev.openstreetmap.org/bing/ -- martijn van exel geospatial omnivore 1109 1st ave #2 salt lake city, ut 84103 801-550-5815 http://oegeo.wordpress.com ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[Talk-lv] Siltumnīcas
Mēs tagojam lielās siltumnīcas? Ja jā, kādi tagi tiek izmantoti? Lai sokas, Pēteris. ___ Talk-lv mailing list Talk-lv@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-lv
Re: [OSM-talk] No attribution on osm.org?
Hi! Floris, proper attribution in all it's glory details are here http://www.openstreetmap.org/copyright Attribution can be in many different forms. Not always it has to be overlay text. Have a nice day, Peter. Pk, 2012-03-09 10:23 +, Tom Hughes rakstīja: On 09/03/12 10:17, Floris Looijesteijn wrote: I just noticed that there no longer is proper attribution on a small website you might have heard of: http://www.openstreetmap.org/ Isn't this sending out the wrong message? The fact that the site is called www.OPENSTREETMAP.org is the attribution. What's more interesting is your claim that there is no longer proper attribution, which suggests that you think something has changed. What exactly do you think we used to do that we no longer do? Tom ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [Talk-lv] Korpusu apzīmēšana
Pk, 2012-03-09 13:07 +0200, Raitis U. rakstīja: Šie ir mani pieņēmumi, un nekas oficiāls: 1) Korpuss ir kaut kas liels. Daudzstāvene. Īsti neiederas tad, ja ir viena sēta ar vairākām apdzīvojamām mājām. Tāpēc ir liters. 2) Tā kā dzīvokļus nerakstam, tad realitātes / kā dzīvokļa apzīmējums izpaliek. k un lit. adresēs manuāli zīmējot nelieku. Kāpēc? - slinkums, renderī daudz vietas aizņem, un tāpat ir saprotams. Tātad, pēc manas metodikas iekš osm paliek divi varianti: 7-9 un 7/9. imho, jo vienkāršāk, jo labāk. Nē, ja vienkāršība sagrauj visu sapratni kas ir korpuss un kas ir apvienotais korpuss, tad tas nav labi. Manuprāt ir jāraksta kā pēc likuma, jo māju numuru licēji vēl nav paspējuši nomainīt. 7/9 nozīmē septītais un devītais apvienotais numurs 7 k-9 nozīmē septītā numura devīto korpusu :) Lai sokas, Pēteris. On Fri, Mar 9, 2012 at 12:28 PM, Peteris Krisjanis pec...@gmail.com wrote: Sveiki tauta! Trešdien pie alus kausa/tomātu sulas glāzes radās arī jautājums tīri praktiskas dabas - par adrešu numuru korpusu tagošanu. Problēmas būtība ir tāda, ka dabā uz adrešu numuru korpusi tiek apzīmēti ļoti bieži tāpat kā dalītie numuri (t.i. kad divas adreses saplūdušas kopā, piemēram, 7/9). Tas rada apjukumu ne tikai cilvēkos, bet arī Latvijas Pasts ir izstrādājis adrešu pierakstu šādos gadījumos adrese ir jāraksta 7-k1 (7 numura 1. korpuss). Ir ierosinājums šādu pierakstu ieviest arī OSM. Problēmas protams ir ar to, ka tas drusku jauksies ar reālo dzīvi kopā. Bet meklētājos varētu iestrādāt to kā prasību ka ja cilvēks meklē 7/1, tad viņam pie reizes meklē arī 7-k1. Pārdomas, noliegumi, ierosinājumi? Lai sokas, Pēteris. ___ Talk-lv mailing list Talk-lv@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-lv ___ Talk-lv mailing list Talk-lv@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-lv ___ Talk-lv mailing list Talk-lv@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-lv
Re: [OSM-talk] Mapnik slower than usual?
T , 2012-03-07 10:49 +, John Sturdy rakstīja: On Tue, Mar 6, 2012 at 5:05 PM, Nathan Edgars II nerou...@gmail.com wrote: Is it just me, or are there more timeout magnifying glasses than usual? I've been getting that too. I'm getting it from last five days. Peter. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [Talk-us] [OSM-talk] Mapnik slower than usual?
T , 2012-03-07 10:49 +, John Sturdy rakstīja: On Tue, Mar 6, 2012 at 5:05 PM, Nathan Edgars II nerou...@gmail.com wrote: Is it just me, or are there more timeout magnifying glasses than usual? I've been getting that too. I'm getting it from last five days. Peter. ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-lv] Regulāras tikšanās (atkal)
Piedo, bija domāts 29. februāris (tas, kas reizi četros gados). Par tālākiem datumiem domāsim. Pēteris. T , 2012-02-22 17:55 +0200, Rich rakstīja: On 02/22/12 16:25, pec...@gmail.com wrote: Interese ir, tas priecē :) Vispirms ir pāris cilvēki, kas vēl ieskaitot mani ir gatavi tikties trešdienas vakaros. Man tas laiks ir vislabāk piemērots. Tā kā šobrīd plāns ir uz nākošo nedēļu trešdienu (29. martu) uzrīkot konkrētu tikšanos. Vieta un laiks vēl tiks precizēti, bet visticamāk pieci, seši vakarā. manaa kalendaaraa 29. marts nesanaak naakamnedeelj (bet 29. martaa mosh pat varu tikt) Par IRC sanāksmēm ceturdienās - es ar visām kājām par. Varu sākt ar rītdienu, būšu tiešsaistē irc.oftc.net #osm-lv kanālā, sākot no septiņiem. noteikti esmu par, buushu tur - redzees, kaa ar piedaliishanos, bish cita laika zona man Pēteris. ... ___ Talk-lv mailing list Talk-lv@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-lv
Re: [OSM-talk] End of road for JOSM on OS X for ppc
2010/9/16 Arigead captain.dea...@gmail.com: Renaud MICHEL wrote: Le mardi 14 septembre 2010 à 16:32, Arigead a écrit : Don't think that changing the OS to Ubuntu will make any difference. I've not checked but if you do change to Ubuntu you'll still be trying to download the Java version for Linux on PPC. I don't think that will be supported by sun. But like I say I've not checked. The latest Java is only supported on Intel 86 Arch as far as I remember. If you want the official java from Sun (which doesn't even exists anymore), no. But openjdk can be compiled on other architecture. Debian has it for alpha amd64 armel i386 ia64 mips mipsel powerpc sparc, see http://packages.debian.org/lenny/openjdk-6-jre so ubuntu should too I tried that for something else but unfortunately the Java6 source was trying to run features which were not implemented by the open source JRE's. Still you're right that an open JRE might implement enough of the spec to get JOSM off the ground. Interesting, I run lastest JOSM with OpenJDK without any big fuss on Ubuntu 10.04. It should run on Mac OS X. Cheers, Peter. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Let's prepare to Fork OSM to a CCBYSA 2.0continuation
2010/8/22 Serge Wroclawski emac...@gmail.com: On Sun, Aug 22, 2010 at 9:22 AM, john whelan jwhelan0...@gmail.com wrote: This is also one of my concerns, especially when using imports. I don't think this has been discussed at all well. The issue of imports and data has been discussed at length in places like the US where imports are a big deal. The bottom line in those discussions: the ODbL and the contributor terms simplify the process immensely, now and in the future. Simplify at what cost? There is just 'CT will make our lifes easier'. Which lives? How easier? And WHAT IS THE COST? I simply want core people of OSM come forward and say honestly that they don't know how big impact will be. And for those who claim that complainers are minority - it's bullshit and you know it. Rest of mappers don't care because they don't have such imput done in OSM. Those who complain are usually those who drives map forward. Without them, OSM is dead as serious map, period. And this is WHY I'm against fork. ODbL now sounds like good compromise. But they still want CT to be attached as Trojan horse. Cheers, Peter. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] To calm some waters - about Section 3
Hi everyone! As I'm interested in keeping my data within OSM and find a common ground with rest of you, I'm delighted to see that requests to specify 'free and open license' in CT section 3 has been taken into account[1]. Huge thanks and sorry for any emotional storm it have caused. [1] http://www.abalakov.com/?p=56 Cheers, Peter. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Mapnik rendering of nature reserve is very, very bad
2010/8/20 pavithran pavithra...@gmail.com: On 20 August 2010 14:53, Vladimir Vyskocil vladimir.vysko...@gmail.com wrote: Hi, For example, look at this : http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=16.3229lon=-61.5603zoom=13layers=M The green overlay with NR letter cover almost everything, lands and sea ! It is hard to even distinguish what is the sea around the island. Can't this be fixed ? Prehaps make it render like natural parc : green boundary, very light green filling and no NR letter ? prehaps only render the boundary Osmarendering is better http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=16.3315lon=-61.554zoom=13layers=O By the way what kind of nature reserve is that inside water ? some protected waters ? Yes, that usually map a territory where human activity is forbidden and endangered species lives (fishes, water animals like ducks, etc.). Anyway, I agree that rendering NR should be more like administrative zone with special rules, not current green overlay. At least not for default osm.org map. Cheers, Peter. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] NearMap Community Licence and OSM Contributor Terms
It is not only about NearMap, we have tens of goverment sources which requires attribution. It *is* talk list issue. It is about future of the project. Cheers, Peter. 2010/8/19 Brad Neuhauser brad.neuhau...@gmail.com: If it's about NearMap, then talk-au seems more appropriate. On Thu, Aug 19, 2010 at 7:59 AM, Anthony o...@inbox.org wrote: On Thu, Aug 19, 2010 at 8:54 AM, Frederik Ramm frede...@remote.org wrote: this discussion must move to legal-talk. If we don't change the contributor terms, then we lose NearMap. That's not a legal discussion. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk -- mortigi tempo Pēteris Krišjānis ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] NearMap Community Licence and OSM Contributor Terms
2010/8/19 Pierre-Alain Dorange pdora...@mac.com: Peteris Krisjanis pec...@gmail.com wrote: It is not only about NearMap, we have tens of goverment sources which requires attribution. Yes but not really sure of the kinf of attribution. For example here in France, the fiscal administration allow us (OSM contributors) to use the cadastre (1) (map of all French parcels) to help mapping the country. The only conditions where to not use the data as a whole package (but aggregate with our own data, ie adding building usage name..., drawing rivers and roads...) and to note the source of the data. Lot of french user use the JOSM plug-in cadastre (2) to map their town using the provided map as a background. The plug-in add source=cadastre 2010... and its fine. When the final user see the map it only saw the global copyright (© OSM contributors...) the real source of some of the data are still cadastre and are tagged as source in the database. I don't see incompatibility here, or do i miss something ? Do OSM have to put the name of all the attribution for the maps displayed ? Do the new licence/CT require that we do not use the source tag anymore ? Anyone can remove source tag and relicense data to say BSD license - if community votes so. Cheers and have nice copyright violation day, Peter. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Voluntary re-licensing begins
What can I do I agree to relicense my stuff under ODbL, but I can't agree with CT Section 3? I hoped LWG will think about removing it, but it seems that relicensing is already started without investigating complain about section 3. Cheers, Peter. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Wanted - spare CC-BY-SA account
2010/8/10 Anthony o...@inbox.org: On Tue, Aug 10, 2010 at 9:35 AM, Elena of Valhalla elena.valha...@gmail.com wrote: On 8/10/10, Anthony o...@inbox.org wrote: On Tue, Aug 10, 2010 at 9:13 AM, Peter Körner osm-li...@mazdermind.de wrote: [...] CC-BY-SA can't be used for databases. That's certainly trivially incorrect. The database that holds Wikipedia is a database, for instance. And it's not under CC-BY-SA per se, it's a collection of creative works (the articles) that are under CC-BY-SA So you're agreeing with the statement that CC-BY-SA can't be used for databases? Okay, whatever. This is going too many times around. For summary, there are: 1) People who are imported bunches of data from thirty party sources and owners those sources where fine with SA and/or Attribution clauses, or have licensed data under CC-BY-SA and are mostly easily reachable to relicense data to ODbL. These pople DON'T OPPOSE ODbL, but they DO OPPOSE CT, as it has nasty wording about further re-licensing, which can make promises to keep data attributed and shared alike impossible. As far we know, there are several official complains made to LWG and we hope this will be fixed. p.s. I'm and several very loud people in this list in this group :) 2) There are people who oppose OdBL in general, as they are confused OR don't see problems with CC-BY-SA. Unfortunately, facts plus copyright law are in grey area, and it is very hard to say easily what works and what not. But from other side, LWG and OSMF have listened to complains and have done their homework on ODbL. So while it is leap of faith, it could be good one. For this group it would probably better scenario is a fork, as it seems majority of OSM contributors accept move to ODbL. Please take into account, that first group is rather big. We are not looking to ignore that CC-BY-SA is on shaky grounds, we want to use ODbL, but we want to be sure about future - therefore we are asking to fix wording of CT so we can be sure OSM in the future will be licensed using SA (we don't mind limited form of this in ODbL) and SA. I really hope LWG will soon make decision about re-licensing clauses in CT so we can move forward. Cheers, and have a nice day, Peter. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Enough is enough: disinfecting OSM from poisonous people
2010/8/10 Ian Dees ian.d...@gmail.com: ...and back on topic: One of the tenets mentioned in the video SteveC linked to was to not fuel the fire by responding to poisonous posts on mailing lists. As we discuss what to do about this sort of distraction, we should keep in mind that the whole community bears the responsibility: Don't reply to off-topic or inflammatory posts. But if on-topic is very much debited question? Sometimes flames indicate true disagreement between two parties. It is enough to have two passionate people from opposite sides to have it going forever. I think we need not only regulate or moderate, we need a way to address complains too. Cheers, Peter. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Wanted - spare CC-BY-SA account
2010/8/10 Peter Körner osm-li...@mazdermind.de: Am 10.08.2010 16:02, schrieb John Smith: If it won't end up PD why the limitation in the CTs? To keep the door open for the futuer. Nobody knows what will come. Are your problems that you don't trust the LWG? Then go on and do a fork -- it's that easy. Peter, it is not about trust. It is about simple problem that it makes any data which sources require attribution or/and share alike incompatible with new CT. It is/was reasonable to complain about this to LWG and I hope to hear clear answer on this from them soon. It is a paradox that while I can submit data which are attribution and/or share-alike compatible, CT forbids me to do so because I can't promise that license will be kept that way in these aspects. I understand wishes to get OSM under PD in the future, but that ain't gonna happen this way. Cheers, Peter. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Frederik declares war on data imports...
2010/8/8 John Smith deltafoxtrot...@gmail.com: http://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/legal-talk/2010-August/003908.html Basically those in favour of PD but not directly effected by or benefiting from data imports would like to have them all ripped out and replaced with surveyed data. I respect PD guys, but in overall, I start to grow to openly dislike their attitude. Their PD at all costs attitude will drive more and more contributors away, and not because of PD, but of their pushing PD down our throats ignoring pleas to stop. Frederic, citing your email in legal: Some people seem to think that such a fork is evil; some seem to even use it as a threat (and if I don't get what I want, then... then... then... I'll FORK THE PROJECT). But I don't view it that way. One is always best at doing what one likes, and continuing in an environment which one doesn't like is not only bad for oneself but also bad for that environment. So if one is unhappy with how things go in OSM, and feels it cannot be changed, Well, first of all, you seem not to getting it why most of us are here. We want to make a map, period. We want to do it with a hassle as less as possible. While it is tempting to fork, it is not a opinion. It means splitting effort. It means two maps who are not sustainable as much as OSM is now. No one wants to do it. You want us to do it and you actually more and more pushing people to do it. You simply poison public communication of project so we, those who disobey or disagree about the future of OSM as PD, would leave. And I won't get into how wrong it is to do that. As much you like concept of fact as non-copyrightable, most geographical facts coming in bunches and are copyrighted. It is reality which you seem don't like to accept. But it is how world works for now and will for some time. In my opinion, it is PD guys should do a fork and work from there to get rest of data PDified. Not SA guys. For me having everything what is in OSM to released in PD is about three four years at best. So we will have to jeopardise our current efforts in main project just because you want PD? It is really worth this fallout in community? Have a nice day, Peter. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Frederik declares war on data imports...
2010/8/8 Richard Fairhurst rich...@systemed.net: Peteris Krisjanis wrote: I respect PD guys, but in overall, I start to grow to openly dislike their attitude. Could you cite who these alleged PD guys are, please? Thanks in advance. Sorry, it wasn't meant PD supportive persons in OSM in general. However, you could admit that there is group of vocal PD supporters who see CT as way to move to PD in the future. Again, I'm not against PD, but chosen way. I'm getting increasingly exasperated with people projecting this big bogeyman (or strawman. A big man made out of straw bogeys) of PD onto what's meant to be a debate about exchanging one share-alike licence for another share-alike licence. Well, I hope it is so. Because I'm not against ODbL. PD has nothing to do with it. Full stop. OSM is a share-alike project and is always going to be a share-alike project. We were trying to talk about ODbL (remember that?) before the conspiracy theorists waded in. Conspiracy theory was fuelled by some people who directly said that Section 3 is really intended as gateway to PD. Maybe it was/still is overreacting, but there are some reasoning behind this. As someone who personally prefers PD this saddens me, not least because I can see the trend in geodata is for ever more permissive licensing and that OSM is therefore going to be out on a limb in ten years' time, probably with a bunch of local, permissively-licensed projects chipping away at it. But there's a difference between what should be and what can be, and seriously, the chances of getting this fractious community to agree to a PD relicensing is nil. Never. That much should be obvious to anyone who has read the mailing lists at any point in the last five years. It isn't going to happen. Problem is not with PD - I want to release my collected data under PD as next guy. However, I work with lot of governmental/regional sources and they need at least a attribution. We can try to work on political level to get all geographical data collected using government financing released under PD, but it will require some time. At this point someone will mention the relicensing clause in the Contributor Terms. It is my opinion that this is unnecessary: the any future version clauses in both CC-BY-SA and ODbL should be adequate. I've told LWG this and they're considering it. (See https://docs.google.com/View?id=dc3bxdhs_3d3ws9sgn point 5.) This is main point why I got worried. I really hope LWG will support your suggestion. Thanks for your comment, Cheers, Peter. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Attribution of OSM on nearmap.om?
2010/8/4 Roman Neumüller r.neumul...@gmail.com: I'm missing the attribution of OSM data on the maps of nearmap - am I wrong or shouldn't it mention OSM on the map itself? On nearmap I only see the attribution after clicking Terms of Use... And this is bad because...? Is there any rules how you should attribute CC-BY-SA? Cheers, Peter. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] How do I turn JOSM's tiger:reviewed=no highlight off?
2010/8/2 Nathan Edgars II nerou...@gmail.com: If a way is tagged tiger:reviewed=no, JOSM puts a highlight behind it, and when you select it the red is a lot fatter. How do I disable this? Use new JOSM filter feature? Cheers, Peter. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] [Tagging] emergency=*
2010/8/1 Ulf Lamping ulf.lamp...@googlemail.com: ... I know all costs, I have doubts about that. Ok, maybe I'm wrong (that's why I won't even try to change things without consensus), but return to root of all this - do you agree that we keep amenity=fire_hydrant and do nothing about it or we try to introduce emergency=* at least for such new things? So far it is not very popular tag and isn't even rendered. Cheers, Peter. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] [Tagging] emergency=*
2010/8/1 Ulf Lamping ulf.lamp...@googlemail.com: Am 01.08.2010 16:40, schrieb Ross Scanlon: On Sun, 01 Aug 2010 16:08:10 +0200 Ulf Lampingulf.lamp...@googlemail.com wrote: Am 31.07.2010 14:00, schrieb Peteris Krisjanis: 2010/7/31 Ulf Lampingulf.lamp...@googlemail.com: Please remember, that it's not done to change only the software (e.g. mkgmap), but each rule file or alike in use. I know all costs, I have doubts about that. And most of them use mapnik and/or osm2pgslso there's no change for them but to load a newer version of mapnik and osm2pgsql. That's only true for map developers that keep the default rendering rules of the software in use. Once a developer starts to tweak the rendering to his liking, he usually has to copy the rules file(s) and therefore won't directly benefit from upstream changes of the software. BTW: Most mobile device software (Garmin, mobile phone, ...) don't use mapnik/osm2pgsql. But they have have to sync with base sooner or later to follow changes, or no? I think you overplay individuality of developers. It would be quite stupid not to follow changes in upstream. Anyway, I understand your point, but I think there is some middle ground where tags can be changed and it can be done reasonably. Have a nice working week, Cheers, Peter. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] [Tagging] emergency=*
2010/7/31 Kevin Peat ke...@kevinpeat.com: Both the police and ambulance service spend a lot of their time on non-emergency items as do hospitals, doctors, etc. If you want to write an app that lists the police under an emergencies menu/button then go ahead but you don't need to change the OSM data to do it. I think it must be reminded that disscussion started when amenity=water_hydrant didn't sound so obvious... I think problem is not that we need or we want emergency=*, weather=*, whatever=*, but that amenity is overcrowded - period. If that can be solved introducing meaningful new name spaces like emergency, which could give easy way to filter emergency items, why not? What is cost of this? 1) Changing it in wiki - one day tops 2) Changing it in db - mass convertation, doable in one shot 3) Add presets to JOSM - also one day tops I think you over analyze situation too much. Change selected group of tags which makes sense (we have already discussed about it), finialised it for now, and inform about this change osm-talk. And do it. Mappers will catch on. Cheers, Peter. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] [Tagging] emergency=*
2010/7/31 Ulf Lamping ulf.lamp...@googlemail.com: Am 31.07.2010 11:19, schrieb Peteris Krisjanis: If that can be solved introducing meaningful new name spaces like emergency, which could give easy way to filter emergency items, why not? What is cost of this? 1) Changing it in wiki - one day tops 2) Changing it in db - mass convertation, doable in one shot 3) Add presets to JOSM - also one day tops 4) Change it in every map renderer / router / other software that is out there - hundreds (or already even thousands?) of applications Really hunderds and thousands? I think it is more in tens ballpark, 20 at the best. And most of them developed actively by OSM community which follows news from it. Teaching each and every mapper out there that the tag has changed and they should no longer use the old one (not every mapper uses presets). And they never never never read wiki, or follow OSM news? Confused mappers that feels unsafe how to map something, as the tags changes all the time - a feeling, not necessarily a fact. In fact, mappers are *already* confused, because there is no one that strongly says - we do so - and everyone follows. It is strange that lot of old OSMers really don't dig what feelings community have against current tagging scheme. If you think about the costs and benefits of something, you should know *all* costs first. I know all costs, and biggest cost for tag incosistency is end of the project, because it drives new contrubitons away and make older contributors sooner or later throw the towel. Sometimes biggest cost comes from doing nothing, trying to believe that everything must stay the same. Cheers, Peter. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Suggestion to add SA clause to CT section 3, describing free and open license
Frederik, I'm sorry, but idea that PD fans holds all license question hostage and therefore CT is needed is stupidest thing I ever heard during my entire life. PD guys need to understand that this project might *never* submit to PD. As much as I like PD as concept, it is unreal to implement it in global scale. If they don't like it - fine, they don't contribute to OSM, but OSM can still use their data anyway. Also creating license AND then creating CT which practically destroys idea of license just because there part of community which disagrees is stupid, plain and simple. You have to draw line somewhere. Make your choice - is it SA/Attribution, or it is PD then. You can't have both, period. Even more - having so much problem with this change, do you really expect to change license *again* in the future? For what cause? All this CT farce comes from having unrealistic expectations about future - and for that you are ready to loose quite significant amount of data. Cheers, Peter. p.s. I still want to hear official word from Steve or anyone about CT Section 3, even if it is no. But please without PD crowd is mighty crap ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Suggestion to add SA clause to CT section 3, describing free and open license
I realize that there are others who believe that the lawyers advising OSMF are wrong, and that CC-BY-SA could indeed be used further. I have doubts about this and would like the proponents of that idea put forward concrete plans about how to implement CC-BY-SA in an internationally balanced way (so that e.g. users in the US do not have more rights than users in Europe or Australia), and also how to handle attribution. These things are currently broken with CC-BY-SA and if someone wants to retain that license he should demonstrate how they can be fixed. Frederik, again you mix it all up. I said i'm fine with ODBL (and so far everyone who rants about CT says nothing bad about ODBL). I truely respect huge work putted into it. What I don't like is that CT section 3 practically strips all this good work away, with having vague definition of new and open license. If this can be clarified with SA and Attribution clauses, then everything is very very ok. Cheers, Peter. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] Suggestion to add SA clause to CT section 3, describing free and open license
Hi again! I still haven't heard from SteveC or others from OSMF official answer wouldn't adding SA clause to section 3 in CT help situation a little - at least it would give contributors a promise that if there another license change is needed, license still will be SA (in a spirit of ODBL). Is it doable? Yes, No? If no, why? Cheers, Peter. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Suggestion to add SA clause to CT section 3, describing free and open license
2010/7/19 Frederik Ramm frede...@remote.org: Hi, Peteris Krisjanis wrote: I still haven't heard from SteveC or others from OSMF official answer wouldn't adding SA clause to section 3 in CT help situation a little - at least it would give contributors a promise that if there another license change is needed, license still will be SA (in a spirit of ODBL). -1 I have heard people complain about many things but not about that section not enforcing SA for eternity. I don't think it would help the situation in anyway; it would only further alienate those who don't like SA. What's on the table right now is a delicate balance between different interests. Trying to take something away now will upset the balance. And honestly, if at any future time two thirds of active OSM contributors want to change to a non-SA license, why should we keep them from it? In one or two years, two thirds of active contributors will be a greater number of people than all of us today. Who are we to tell them what to do? We're the minority ;) That would indicate that PD lovin, SA hatin guys will try to stuffin committee method to push OSM in right direction? :) Harsh joke of course, but I really fail to see how after two very cut and clear SA licenses like CC-BY-SA and ODBL OSM suddenly will adapt non-SA license (in fact we have very short list for it here, because most data licenses are SA). And if I compare theoretical case in future with non-SA crowd, who suddenly got majority, and everyone wants PD (which practically non-SA means) with practical benefits with NOT loosing OSM data when doing conversation from CC to ODBL, I guess I have quite clear winner. Even more - why do you need such terms when you have ODBL, which have very painfully long history of creation? What is practical goal here? We will change license for OSM data every 5 years now? It would only further alienate those who don't like SA. Is there any actual mapper who strictly don't like SA? So far I have only heard it from business people. And so far CC-by-SA and ODBL *both* are SA licenses and there is no indicator that it will change any other way soon. So it is already SA, why we can't clarify that next license (IF there ever be one) will be SA too? It won't change. In fact, all CT/CA situation is very strange - I really fail to see why we need them. More I listen, more I doubt their benefits for OSM as project and society. Let's adapt ODBL, change to it and be done. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Suggestion to add SA clause to CT section 3, describing free and open license
2010/7/19 Frederik Ramm frede...@remote.org: John, John Smith wrote: I wonder if you realise the fine line you are walking here by employing such hard line tactics, I am not employing hard line tactics, I am simply suggesting to go ahead with what is on the table now. you are literally risking an out right rejection of ODBL because of this. How much time and effort will have been in vein exactly? I am not suggesting to reject ODbL. I am suggesting to accept the Contributor Terms exactly as they have been produced by the time and effort you mention. Sorry, but as far as I remember CT suddenly appeared on the table. Before that there was just ODBL. I still haven't heard strong argument why CT are needed. CT practically says Ups, we didn't get ODBL as we wanted this time, here, sign over your rights, we will try to force another one later. Maybe it's not original intent meant by creators, but it really feels/sounds/looks like one. Cheers, Peter. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Suggestion to add SA clause to CT section 3, describing free and open license
2010/7/19 Frederik Ramm frede...@remote.org: .. Ok, Frederik, I understand (but don't accept) your arguments here, but to push discussion in more practical way: what to do with data providers like Nearmap? How to convince them? Does OSMF have clear plans to convince such data providers to subscribe to planned CT regime? Is there communication going on? Cheers, Peter. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Suggestion to add SA clause to CT section 3, describing free and open license
2010/7/19 Andy Allan gravityst...@gmail.com: On Mon, Jul 19, 2010 at 11:05 AM, Peteris Krisjanis pec...@gmail.com wrote: Hi again! I still haven't heard from SteveC or others from OSMF official answer wouldn't adding SA clause to section 3 in CT help situation a little - at least it would give contributors a promise that if there another license change is needed, license still will be SA (in a spirit of ODBL). Hi Peter, The OSMF (i.e. the LWG) isn't likely to give you an answer in the timeframe you expect - they meet once a week and have a huge (growing?) amount of things to deal with. Even on a good day it might take 2-3 weeks for them to get you a response, and if it involves legal advice maybe even longer. I'm not trying to discourage you, just hoping that you realise these things can take a while, and hoping that you have the patience to wait! Andy, I don't have problem to wait - I and probably lot of other mappers just want to hear straight and honest answer. Cheers, Peter. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Suggestion to add SA clause to CT section 3, describing free and open license
2010/7/19 SteveC st...@asklater.com: On Jul 19, 2010, at 3:34 PM, John Smith wrote: On 19 July 2010 23:19, Frederik Ramm frede...@remote.org wrote: And honestly, if at any future time two thirds of active OSM contributors want to change to a non-SA license, why should we keep them from it? In one or two years, two thirds of active contributors will be a greater number of people than all of us today. Who are we to tell them what to do? We're the minority ;) I wonder if you realise the fine line you are walking here by employing such hard line tactics, you are literally risking an out right rejection of ODBL because of this. How much time and effort will have been in vein exactly? I think you're overblowing the numbers here with 'risking a out right rejection'. 200,000 people, or whatever, will be asked about the ODbL under the plan, and there are about 20 people here slugging it out. From my experience off list with all the people frustrated both in email and in person, those 20 or so people here just don't represent everyone else who'd prefer all this discussion to go to legal-talk and just move on with the license. Steve, can you instead of flaming back give me stright answer what do you think about suggestion I mentioned in the first post of this thread? Already thanks for answer, Cheers, Peter. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Suggestion to add SA clause to CT section 3, describing free and open license
2010/7/19 SteveC st...@asklater.com: Can you restate the question as I don't have mail archives etc here (on my phone) Ok, there it goes: I suggest to add SA clause and Attribution clause as requirement for any new open and free license in CT point 3. It would help to ease problems with big data contributors which could agree with ODBL (as it still have SA and Attribution), but are uneasy about clarification of point 3 in CT. Already thanks for answer, cheers, Peter. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] What could we do to make this licences discussion more inclusive?
I never said they didn't agree to the ODBL, but that the new CTs, specifically section 3, wasn't going to be compatible, even if ODBL is. Only if a later license change were to go non-SA. An hypothetical situation that you have created. I know you like to have personal flame war, but in nutshell ODBL is share alike, so no problems here. I have two questions though: 1) Why we need CT in first place 2) What section 3 is about Cheers, Peter. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] What could we do to make this licences discussion more inclusive?
2010/7/18 John Smith deltafoxtrot...@gmail.com: On 19 July 2010 06:27, Peteris Krisjanis pec...@gmail.com wrote: I know you like to have personal flame war, but in nutshell ODBL is share alike, so no problems here. I have two questions though: 1) Why we need CT in first place 2) What section 3 is about http://www.osmfoundation.org/wiki/License/Contributor_Terms 3. OSMF agrees to use or sub-license Your Contents as part of a database and only under the terms of one of the following licenses: ODbL 1.0 for the database and DbCL 1.0 for the individual contents of the database; CC-BY-SA 2.0; or another free and open license. Which other free and open license is chosen by a vote of the OSMF membership and approved by at least a 2/3 majority vote of active contributors. An active contributor is defined as: a natural person (whether using a single or multiple accounts) who has edited the Project in any 3 calendar months from the last 12 months (i.e. there is a demonstrated interest over time); and has maintained a valid email address in their registration profile and responds within 3 weeks. So, problem is, while ODBL is fine as SA license (for data that is), CT requires to give OSMF rights to republish data under license which so far by CT can be also non-share-alike, right? Will it be a problem to add small addition to this section 3 or another share alike free and open license? Or it will destroy someone's dream about publishing those data under BSD like or PD some day? :) Cheers, Peter. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Mapquest launches site based on OSM!
2010/7/9 Maarten Deen md...@xs4all.nl: On Fri, 09 Jul 2010 10:11:02 +0100, SomeoneElse li...@mail.atownsend.org.uk wrote: On 09/07/2010 09:50, David Ellams wrote: http://blogs.wsj.com/digits/2010/07/09/aols-mapquest-looks-to-wikipedia-model-for-mapping/ http://open.mapquest.co.uk/ Woohoo! An OSM map with a scale on it! Yeah, they'll remove it shortly when they notice the bugs: - the scale is always the same, on the equator and on the pole (or as far to the pole you can get get) - the scale does not change when you zoom in or out with the mouse scrollwheel. The last bug is especially aggravated by the fact that for zooming there are 3 options (doubleclick, zoomwheel, zoombar) of which 2 work and for zooming out there are only 2 options (zoomwheel, zoombar) of which only 1 works. And most of the times, I don't use the zoombar. I never use it when I zoom in only one or two levels. What a heck you are talking about? Every type of zoom works for me without problems, FF3.6 Cheers, Peter. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] place=isolated_dwelling approved - adding to mapfeatures
Allright, back to topic - can someone add place=isolated_dwelling to map features? Cheers, Peter. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] place=isolated_dwelling approved - adding to mapfeatures
2010/5/23 Richard Weait rich...@weait.com: On Sun, May 23, 2010 at 11:15 AM, Peteris Krisjanis pec...@gmail.com wrote: Allright, back to topic - can someone add place=isolated_dwelling to map features? Should every approved key:value be placed in Map Features? If so, how do we manage the size of that page? For Christ sakes, I think we discussed this already enough. I think most of us agreed that place *should* be used as indicator of the size of the settlement. That's why THIS tag proposal differs from tags you mentioned here. There is enough indication that lot of people want to see this clarified. Please, stop play these stupid everything can be tag, so we won't standardize, because it will be so uncool games. Difference in opinion is good thing, but we have to draw line somewhere. Cheers, Peter. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] place=isolated_dwelling approved - adding to mapfeatures
2010/5/21 Frederik Ramm frede...@remote.org: . place=farm - use this for residential areas smaller than a hamlet, unless you think that place=isolated_dwelling is more appropriate farm is usage of the place. place=* tag is definitely more about size of settlement than usage of it. place=isolated_dwelling - use this for residential areas smaller than a hamlet, unless you think that place=farm is more appropriate But why? Why so big exclusivity about farm? Again, farm is what is located at this place, not place itself. Cheers, Peter. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] new logo
2010/5/18 Zeptomoon zeptom...@gmail.com: Would this tell you or remind you of something? http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/File:OSM_Logo_World_Green.plain.png Okay, it steals one element from another (very famous) community project. But, it's still very distinct. After all, there is some thing that connects us: The Free WIKI world map, right? Does it show the HUMAN aspect? Of course, there is room for improvement. I drafted it this morning. Feedback? Too bold? Too WIKI? I would suggest pieces of puzzle in dark blue and dark green. Current green is blowing into eyes. Otherwise very nice idea, Peter. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Russians at it again
This whole issue is absurd. Such laws is absurd (how secret can be something that can be seen from sat photos? Huh?) and overreaching, and our response to it is absurd. If you don't wanna map it - don't. If you want to warn others about issues with laws - allright, very nice of you, do it. But please don't do anything else. No removals. No cleanups. And especially no votings what others can or can't map. Sometimes you need to be idealistic to get somewhere. Cheers, Peter. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Abnormal votings on military objects in RU wiki part; PocketGIS madness
Frederik, is it possible in Germany to give away state secret (if you know that some combination of information is not to be published for the reason that it is a secret by the law, only in combination) without being judged? You may say that to know a secret you must be allowed by the secret service to do this, but in some cases just a combination of pieces of open information is a secret by the law - and that is our case. Well, with fear to slide into offtopic territory, I think what worries most of us is *definition* of state secret. Fallback location for generals and president in war time is definitely top state secret. But does publicly seen random military site is? I really doubt that. I know that Russia isn't alone in this - definition of state secret is very loose also in lot of Western countries (I think only Northern Europe have clearer statements on it). However, as far as I understood, core problem is that in Russia, *anything* connected with military can be claimed as state secret. It's leftover from Soviet law (with the same dose of paranoia, of course) and extreme example of subject. Therefore if OSM shows military objects in Russia, it can be ordered to be filtered out. If someone maps military objects, it can land them in legal hot water (if someone gets hold of OSMer location who did it). I think even some civilian roads can be claimed state secret if they leads to base which was sorta secret in Soviet times - but not these days. So questions are these: * How we advice as community to act in this particular case? * And how we deal with such problems in future? In this case for publishing I suggest to re-render it with stuff filtered out. Question is - how to automate it? In meantime, it would be nice to have some service where you can render/get planet.xml with stuff layered/filtered out. For example, having only traffic stuff. It is something worth to think about. Cheers, Peter. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Abnormal votings on military objects in RU wiki part; PocketGIS madness
2010/4/12 Kirill Bestoujev bestou...@gmail.com: 2010/4/13 andrzej zaborowski balr...@gmail.com For the record I'm much more likely to trust Komzpa who's a long time contributor to the community than someone who thinks citizenship has any meaning at all in an argument. Komzpa is out of reach of Russian state authorities. Russian citizens are not. That is the only thing I wanted to tell specifing that he is from Belorussia. Please, let's not turn into flamewar. In short, there are two problems: a) there are countries where you need license for mapping and publishing maps; b) there are countries where definition of state secret includes almost everything military Question is - how to solve this in more wider scale than current problem in Russia. Cheers, Peter. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Abnormal votings on military objects in RU wiki part; PocketGIS madness
There are to projects, one already launched and one bing prepared, similar to OSM, but both sponsored by big companies -one by Yandex (our Russian biggest search engine, could say local Google) the other - by on of the leading Russain navigation software companies. The do know very well that OSM is a threat to them! And they will use any chance to stop that threat. On letter to state authorities - and we will loose the possibility to legally use OSM. They can do nothing to OSM itself, but we are not in England, we are here, in Russia. Kirill, I think you would agree that they can *threaten* you, but they can't deliver actual case. Who they will sue? OSMF, which is foreign entity? You, who have provided data, again, to foreign entity? It is different if you plan to *publish* actual thing based on OSM data, which can include stuff you can't legally publish - then yes, you should be careful and apply filters as propitiate measure. But unless you don't publish top secret things, they really have no legal leverage here. It is just old fashioned Russian mob style threatening, which shouldn't be taken seriously, because mostly it is just hot air. It is just how people who wants monopoly on things in Russia deals with competition. So I suggest do following: 1) Get lawyer help. If *mapping* staff you can't map in Russia will get you in hot water - so be it, don't. You are not obligated to. But base this on legal analysis, not someone said I should not to compete with them. Never follow rumors. Ever; 2) Also, the same comes when publishing data in a manner - printing official maps and selling them, etc. If you need to weed out stuff - filter it out and re-render it; As far as I know laws which inherits from old Soviet legal system, it is probably more connected with publishing actual map than providing data to OSM. Yes, openstreetmap.org may show things (and data set can contain things) which are forbidden to see in Russia, but, well, that's their problem. There are lot of interesting legal issues popped up with introduction of Internet. But somehow I really really doubt that Russia ever will be capable introducing working country-wise web filter and put OSM in it. Just my two kapeiki, your neighbor, Peter. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Logo vote
What's requirements for voting script? P. 2010/3/17 SteveC st...@asklater.com: Hi all We've narrowed down the OSMF logo's some time ago and have been waiting for someone to write a voting script so that OSMF members can vote for the winner. But that someone is very busy. Does anyone here want to step up and make it happen? Yours c. Steve ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk -- mortigi tempo Pēteris Krišjānis ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] [OSM-dev] GSoC'10
For one of OSM GSoC'10 projects I would like to suggest unofficial guide for mapping. We all know that there is a little haos in tagging (some says it's good, some says it bad), but so far biggest confusion comes from not how to tag things, but how to tag complex situations or how to even map complex situations (and that's without even taking micro mapping into account). What we need is nice guide where is said - basic roads are maped like this, crossroads created this way, this must be connected with that, etc. It would also create a nice little base for futher experiments and ideas. There's nothing wrong with seeking out alternative tags or ways of mapping, but this at least should be documented somewhere. More or less everyone who would take this task would have to go trough all archives, look for discusions and conlusions (and even if there is no conlusion, writing down all sane opinions would help greatly) and write it down in casual user manual style. Just a idea, but I think worth to explore, cheers, Peter. 2010/3/11 Graham Jones grahamjones...@googlemail.com: Mike. Thank you for your suggestion. I do not know where the apache licence ref comes from. This year's application says GPL with a note saying some is PD. Graham On Mar 11, 2010 7:36 AM, jamesmikedup...@googlemail.com jamesmikedup...@googlemail.com wrote: My GSOC suggestion : Get the potlatch running without any Adobe software, use gnash. http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/GSoC_Project_Ideas_2010#Porting_of_Potlatch_to_use_FLOSS_tools_and_viewer Also why does google list OSM as being apache licensed? http://code.google.com/soc/2008/streetmap/about.html Preferred license: Apache License, 2.0 Since when? I am putting all my new code under the affero GPL 3.0. mike On Fri, Feb 12, 2010 at 4:44 PM, Rajan Vaish vaish.ra...@gmail.com wrote: Thanks Graham, ... ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk -- mortigi tempo Pēteris Krišjānis ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] [OSM-dev] GSoC'10
GSoc student pool is a very talented one - it would be good to use them for more critical things. Of course, OSM unlike other projects is basically a collection of tools maintained by various people, so difficult to achieve a consensus. Having one place of knowhow of mapping is quite critical for project like OSM. And believe me, creating good documentation requires quite a skill and isn't easiest job in IT world as we would like to see. Cheers, Peter. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Fwd: Nav4All navigation shut down by Navteq
2010/2/1 80n 80n...@gmail.com: Come on guys tell us what you need. 80n How about generic tagging system for the start and improve from there? Some sort of *generic* standards for tagging before tag it and it will come. Problem is that there are people who are ready to map before working on tagging. And people who would like to work on tagging, but have difficulties to get first party to agree. We need some kind of beloved imperator, be it human being or unofficial tagging/mapping guide, who says what is what and that's it. Problem is that we *know* what map consumers want - consistent data where they are available - but there are people in OSM who simply aren't ready to agree for this. People like me have been talking about this for some year. Cheers, Peter. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Intriguing artifacts in GeoEye data
2010/1/19 David G. Smith PE PLS dsm...@synergist-tech.com: I noticed the same on the southern coast of Haiti as well (I have been doing some mapping in and around Jacmel), with some oddities where features and ocean collide, with the ocean being too far inland - and editing of the coastline layer does not appear to be reflected in rendering. AFAIK, that's because coastline is rendered not so frequently? Peter. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Intriguing artifacts in GeoEye data
WMS are with serious offset and no one haven't provided GPS references yet. Maybe that's the reason. Cheers, Peter. 2010/1/18 ce-test, qualified testing bv - Gert Gremmen g.grem...@cetest.nl: If you look at the coast of Haiti, west of port-au-prince some strange artifacts are shown on a lot of places where building and beach clubs (I presume) touch the coast line. Look here for example: http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=18.5474002361298lon=-72.574583435zoom=15 and enable the GeoEye data. Under the sea level traces of the coastal buildings are seen. It seems as if the whole of Haiti coastline slided 50 meters southwards due to the quake. It's strange however, that only human constructions leave traces, and this makes this theory less probable. Any thoughts ??? Gert Gremmen - Openstreetmap.nl (alias: cetest) Before printing, think about the environment. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Fwd: Haiti Field requirement: Haiti OSM maps in PDF
I wanted to point that MapOSMatic has huge improvements in their bag just five days ago (http://news.maposmatic.org/?p=83), just like: * Support for the whole world. Any location in the world can now be rendered on maposmatic.org. * OpenStreetMap database updated daily. Until now, the database had never been updated since the service was started in September 2009. Now, the geographic database used to render the maps is updated daily, providing maps with the latest contributions to OpenStreetMap. Each map contains the date at which it was generated. * Better city search engine. Thanks to Nominatim, we now provide a search engine that allows to find cities in a much more usable way: cities with the same name can be distinguished and the search works even when the city name is not completely correct. * Support for other languages. A few parts of the map rendering process is language-dependent and we now have the infrastructure to use language-dependent code. For the moment, we support English, French and Italian, but we are waiting for your contributions to support other languages. The website has also been translated to German and Italian. * Amenities in the index. In addition to the streets, we have added important amenities to the index: schools, town hall, post offices, places of worship, etc. Sorry for spamming, but it seems that MapOSMatic can do the job. I tried to generate Port-au-Prince, it came out 3.1 PDF. You can select any area you want and let MapOSMatic to render it into PDF. Cheers, Peter. 2010/1/17 Jonas Krückel o...@jonas-krueckel.de: Hi, Just a quick note about coordination. Unfortunately I don't have much time today to take care of this myself. Everyone working on this, please make sure to coordinate the efforts and avoid duplicated work. If you have more detailed specifications from Jochen, please share them in the Wiki and here on OSM-Talk. As soon as we have PDFs that matches Jochen's needs, please also update the Wiki and OSM-Talk. I've added a task in the Wiki, you can add additional information there and also add your name, if you're working on it: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/WikiProject_Haiti#tasks Jonas Am 17.01.2010 um 10:27 schrieb Gary68: so, do YOU or anyone else really need oo draw format. or was it just for conversion purposes? On Sun, 2010-01-17 at 01:16 -0800, Sam Vekemans wrote: Oops, forgot to send this to the main list. ~ and in OpenOffice Draw, a PDF can be easily made. -- Forwarded message -- From: Sam Vekemans acrosscanadatra...@gmail.com Date: Sun, 17 Jan 2010 00:55:31 -0800 Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] Haiti Field requirement: Haiti OSM maps in PDF To: ce-test, qualified testing bv - Gert Gremmen g.grem...@cetest.nl Im at work (job) right now. Can we make an OpenOffice draw template add in a map key? -showing what the mapnik icons show/represent. Also, Showing numbers as (tranparent jpg's) so they can be moved around on the page and cross-referenced in a space on the 2nd page of the maposmatic sheet. If you dont understand, thats OK, i'll make it myself. (after im done with the transparent contour map mapsource installer) Sam On 1/17/10, ce-test, qualified testing bv - Gert Gremmen g.grem...@cetest.nl wrote: Maposmatic seems to do the job: http://www.maposmatic.org/ Gert Van: talk-boun...@openstreetmap.org [mailto:talk-boun...@openstreetmap.org] Namens nicolas chavent Verzonden: zondag 17 januari 2010 2:01 Aan: talk@openstreetmap.org; crisismapp...@googlegroups.com CC: CJ Hendrix Onderwerp: [OSM-talk] Haiti Field requirement: Haiti OSM maps in PDF Hi there. Below a post on the topic getting Haiti OSM maps in PDF for direct use in the field and circulation in fora such as relief web. It has just been highlighted as a strong Haiti requirements from GIS responders working in Haiti Top 1 Fied Requirement: ready to print maps ArchD size (24 x 36) Best N -- Forwarded message -- From: Mikel Maron mikel_ma...@yahoo.com Date: Sun, Jan 17, 2010 at 1:49 AM Subject: Re: Haiti OSM map To: Jochen Plumeyer joc...@plumeyer.org, nicolas chavent nicolas.chav...@gmail.com, Andrew Turner ajtur...@highearthorbit.com, Jonas Krückel o...@jonas-krueckel.de Nicolas, Andrew, Jonas Can one of you pass along Jochen's request below ... nice PDFs and non-paved roads. One of the outputs we eventually want to have for HOT are nice PDFs for distribution through reliefweb, etc. Perhaps someone in the OSM or crisismapping community can pick up these threads Thanks Mikel From: Jochen Plumeyer joc...@plumeyer.org To: Mikel Maron mikel_ma...@yahoo.com Sent: Sat, January 16, 2010 6:37:33 PM Subject: Re: Haiti OSM map Anything in particular we can do on the mapping side? A super non-geek approved product would be a size-optimized PDF of the complete zone between border (including Jimaní and
Re: [OSM-talk] Haiti field reqs : Port au Prince Search And Rescue sectors shapefile for import in osm
2010/1/17 Iván Sánchez Ortega i...@sanchezortega.es: El Domingo, 17 de Enero de 2010, nicolas chavent escribió: Hi there Ideal if an import of the Port au Prince Search And Rescue sectors shapefile can be managed. This would complement the current gps extracts and turns these resources into a tremendous assets for Search And Rescue teams shp downloadable at http://finder.geocommons.com/overlays/20424 Seems like user pecisk already uploaded this, altough the boundaries do not match perfectly in some areas. Yes, I did this. Now we need enter info details for each sector like number, which team covers it, etc. I believe it is more believable that some areas has some offset, as we still don't have properly aligned satphotos. http://finder.geocommons.com/overlays/20424 has csv and kml and now I will try to tag each sector. Anyone can join me to help. Cheers, Peter. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Can we ditch the publication copyright issues with the Haiti map?
2010/1/15 Stefan de Konink ste...@konink.de: As subject. Can we just grant anyone that want to report news, help on site, to use vector and bitmap data without creative commons madness? I think it is very ethical to say yes to the above. Where is that CC madness you are talking about? As far as I know CC-BY-SA just requires to publish CHANGED DATA by same license. I really doubt anyone in this situation wouldn't like to share changes because every update helps. And I really doubt anyone using it for relief or publishing even touch territory of license. They can do whatever they want, just keep attribution in a bottom of the screen (or somewhere near the map). Cheers, Peter. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Sourcing street names - what's the policy, and why?
But...where do you get the street name from? I think there's a general policy that you can't copy it off other maps...but why, exactly? How can a piece of information like the name of the street be copyright? Whose copyright law are we dealing with, anyway? In my country it is quite simple - it *must* be verified locally, because lot of sources are quite buggy and full of errors. Sure, imports from local gov. sources would help, but they aren't always available and up to date. Pēteris. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Google blog post: The meaning of open
Open will win. Interestingly, there is NO mention of mapping data. Amazing. How can they continue to omit this from the discussion? Keep negative PR at minimum, only positive things? Or simply said - when you have nothing good to say, better be quiet. P. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] [Announce] OSMF license change vote has started
SteveC schreef: You're really advocating switching license without asking anyone? Isn't he merely stating that if you truly believe CC-BY-SA doesn't protect the data, you don't have to ask anyone to do so? to do what, relicense? Exactly; if your statement is sound. CC-BY-SA doesn't protect us, thus doesn't protect us against ourselves, thus OSMF could declare the data today as ODbL, and wait to get sued by the editors that doesn't like this change, if the CC-BY-SA holds the relicense has just been made a copyright infringement and therefore wasn't required in the first place. So you really are saying the LWG / OSMF should just ignore everyone and change the license? I think it's better to build a consensus and vote and so on personally, even with all the ups and downs. Steve, I think he wanted to point ironical situation that you claim that CC-BY-SA doesn't work. So, it doesn't work, there are workarounds, let's use this workaround to relicense everything to ODbL :) Anyway, you can call him a troll, but I agree I so far haven't heard sound arguments why CC-BY-SA doesn't work and what work actually means. Doesn't work for Cloudmade? Doesn't work for community? Doesn't what? And please, don't refer to old mailing list posts, explain it in your words, because it is different disscussion and different situation. Otherwise it really sounds like pushing change by someone who are spent too much time in legal-talk. And we know what legal-talk does to the people. Laws aren't physics, get over it. They will never be clean and shut. Cheers and good luck, Peter. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] [Announce] OSMF license change vote has started
2009/12/8 SteveC st...@asklater.com: On Dec 8, 2009, at 2:08 PM, Peteris Krisjanis wrote: SteveC schreef: You're really advocating switching license without asking anyone? Isn't he merely stating that if you truly believe CC-BY-SA doesn't protect the data, you don't have to ask anyone to do so? to do what, relicense? Exactly; if your statement is sound. CC-BY-SA doesn't protect us, thus doesn't protect us against ourselves, thus OSMF could declare the data today as ODbL, and wait to get sued by the editors that doesn't like this change, if the CC-BY-SA holds the relicense has just been made a copyright infringement and therefore wasn't required in the first place. So you really are saying the LWG / OSMF should just ignore everyone and change the license? I think it's better to build a consensus and vote and so on personally, even with all the ups and downs. Steve, I think he wanted to point ironical situation that you claim that CC-BY-SA doesn't work. So, it doesn't work, there are workarounds, let's use this workaround to relicense everything to ODbL :) Anyway, you can call him a troll, but I agree I so far haven't heard sound arguments why CC-BY-SA doesn't work and what work actually means. Doesn't work for Cloudmade? Doesn't work for community? Doesn't what? And please, don't refer to old mailing list posts, explain it in your words, because it is different disscussion and different situation. Have you seen this? http://www.osmfoundation.org/images/3/3c/License_Proposal.pdf and this? http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Open_Data_License/Why_You_Should_Vote_Yes Yours c. Steve So, in nutshell, CC-BY-SA, or even worse, copyright law itself doesn't protect OSM database, because it's database of facts and it doesn't work in lot of juristictions. More or less in those juristictions OSM data are effectively not copyrightable and therefore their usage and distribution can't be controlled by copyright law. p.s. btw, in my country database of facts IS copyrightable and I think it's the same with rest of EU (correct me if I am wrong). So in fact that means no license with basis in copyright term and law can't be used? And therefore you are offering ODbL? ODbL restricts usage trough.? Please explain futher :) p.s. Steve, I am not against Cloudmade or license change, and I understand problem. I just think it is not explained carefully again, again and again. I know, it sucks, but that's the life. And I am worried about mass imports who are done under CC-BY-SA. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] [Announce] OSMF license change vote has started
It is clear that we all have different opinions about this license change. However, I would like to hear down-to-earth explaining what and how will happen when license change kicks in? How OSMF will work with contributors to get their data converted? How they will try to convince them? etc. If it will be just deletion, then OSMF heads for sea of trouble and confusion here. Please guys, be more polite and understanding about criticism and opposition this license change gets. So far miscomunication and lack of real life info about this outweights any useful data so it is quite understandable why there is so much strong language in this thread. Please work together on this, Cheers, Peter. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] OSMF: The people you are going to hand over your OSM data ...
So ask for a clause that ownership is transferred to another org in the event that OSMF is bought out or no longer has the best interests of it's contributors, but it's not uncommon to assign rights to an org, as you point out the FSF has been doing it for a long time, why was there any reason to trust them in the begining? I assume that it was time when organizations like FSF sounded like hippy geeks without any serious possibility to penetrate market. Free software, free for all to use, sell, customize, analyze? Are you kiddin? Real intent of FSF and GNU only got serious coverage after Linux came in (because GNU fit so well as support layer of new os); at that point FSF already were serious players in community and have proven that they are fanatic enough not to sell out. To keep on believing in right thing takes some faith. OSM, in other case, have already attracted lot of commercial competition and there are worries about their markets - and in same time lot of casual map users too. Therefore, having one organization like target will make things a lot easier if someone will seriously try to silence this project. Also people aready seen signs, they seen Microsoft doing nothing about Netscape or Firefox - and loosing. No commercial vendor wants OSM to become Linux of the maps or Firefox of the maps. Question is - can we trust OSMF? I can put up some faith for it, but how about others? That's why is so important to explain this license change again, again and again. Cheers, Peter. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Mapping everything as areas
2009/11/25 Jean-Marc Liotier j...@liotier.org: Ævar Arnfjörð Bjarmason's diary entry last week (http://j.mp/8ESP8o) stired my interest. Using a few examples, he showed how mapping everything as an area - or as a volume - makes ultimate sense. Should we go for it now ? Mapping the crossing of two roads, four cycleways and four sidewalks all as surfaces requires about twenty times as many nodes as mapping the crossing of two linear roads. That is a hefty increase in complexity, especially when having to deal with the modification of existing ways. Should that be put forward as a best practice ? When dealing with pedestrian plazas and their surroundings, the value added by area mapping makes it worthwhile, but for more standard street grids I'm not sure if that should be a priority. My geeky nitpicky self makes me want to do it, but maybe I should focus my energy somewhere else where it would be more useful. And maintaining that complexity may be more costly than what we have now. So what is your opinion ? Generalized area mapping is the future, but should we wholeheartedly embrace it right now or wait for more sophisticated tools for maintaining it and a clearer business case ? It is very interesting question. I like to do micro mapping myself and I have thought lot of business uses for it, but more or less I see it as evolutionary thing. First of all, for area I map I would like to see generalized stuff which is useful now - roads with proper tagging and directions, bus stops, public transport routes, house numbers, etc. This is what I would call first level. Second would be add paths and sizes of the roads like this. And third would be area based mapping mentioned in your message. I would like to see first level completed for 80% for selected region before moving to second and third. Also resource issues (high resolution ortphotos, sathotos, local plans) plays a role if micro mapping is possible for this region. Cheers, Peter. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Illegal activity
2009/11/2 Russ Nelson nel...@crynwr.com: Ulf Lamping writes: Russ Nelson schrieb: Peteris Krisjanis writes: Anyway, to resume all this discussion - PLEASE don't trace from photo without permission for OSM, whatever your temptations are. E, no. The USGS Digital Ortho Quads are in the public domain; no permission necessary to trace off of them. If the material is licensed as public domain, this *is* one of the possible permissions Peteris is talking about. Is this really that hard to get? Seemingly, since you don't understand that when something is in the public domain, there is no copyright owner to get permission from. It sounds like your conflating a public domain work which is free of copyright with a copyrighted work licensed as if it were public domain. PD is permission from government to do whatever you want with subject, they don't protect it with copyright law. If you really think that PD is some natural right given by Nature/God, you are strongly mistaken. Cheers, Peter. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Illegal activity
2009/11/1 Anthony o...@inbox.org: On Sun, Nov 1, 2009 at 2:06 PM, Peteris Krisjanis pec...@gmail.com wrote: Anyway, to resume all this discussion - PLEASE don't trace from photo without permission for OSM, whatever your temptations are. Permission from whom, and in what form? Supposedly the Yahoo images are okay, but 1) Yahoo didn't take the pictures in the first place, and 2) I haven't verified that Yahoo even gave permission (who signed the waiver? what indication do we have that they were authorized to do so? can I see a copy of the waiver? what exactly are the terms?). For example, I bought orthographical photos for my town and I got permission to trace them for OSM. Written in paper, signed by me and seller. Yahoo is another matter. They have stated several times - and probably are asked questions about this all the time - if it is right. I think public statements from Yahoo about this already protects you in case if someone in Yahoo goes high-wire and wants everyone to sue about it. You can do whatever you want, buy it or not. Again, OSM project's consensus is that you can trace Yahoo, but you can't from Google products. Because first one said yes, you can, and second said no. Several times. I'm hesitant to push that issue, but hey, if OSM decides to stop helping people trace from Yahoo maybe someone else will come along with less silly rules. No one will. Geo photos are expensive matter and if they are not goverment sponsored, it is usually bread and butter for company who makes them. Cheers, Peter. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Illegal activity
2009/11/2 Martin Koppenhoefer dieterdre...@gmail.com: 2009/11/2 Peteris Krisjanis pec...@gmail.com You can do whatever you want, buy it or not. Again, OSM project's consensus is that you can trace Yahoo, but you can't from Google products. Because first one said yes, you can, and second said no. Several times. that's all true AFAIK besides that Google didn't say no, they simply never replied... As far as I heard, they did, no? Cheers, Peteris. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Illegal activity
2009/11/1 Anthony o...@inbox.org: On Sun, Nov 1, 2009 at 9:31 AM, Martin Koppenhoefer dieterdre...@gmail.com wrote: in some regions/countries like the EU there is also a database protection and those aerial images are / might be considered a database. Those database laws really make things tough. It's basically a flaw in the law. Man, it isn't a flaw, but a feature to support poor mapmaking and ortphoto/satphoto companies. More or less problem is database leeching, where this addition to copyright laws about databases is to protect from balantly copying all databse stuff and sell it as yours. However those additions are usually very badly and broadly written and I think they shouldn't be applied to geo photos. But those companies usually have strong lobby power and no one argues about these things because they don't dig it. Anyway, to resume all this discussion - PLEASE don't trace from photo without permission for OSM, whatever your temptations are. Cheers, Peter. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Illegal activity
2009/10/30 Richard Weait rich...@weait.com: On Thu, Oct 29, 2009 at 8:45 AM, Richard Weait rich...@weait.com wrote: On Wed, Oct 28, 2009 at 7:26 PM, Valent Turkovic valent.turko...@gmail.com wrote: http://forums.x-plane.org/index.php?showtopic=40148 what to do with OSM mappers like these guys in this post? They say that they are using Google Earth images :( I replied in the thread as I'm near there. We'll see if there is any follow-up. Well, his reply does not fill me with joy. It was my mistake :blush: for openly stating what I was doing with Google Earths images, I should have kept quiet like everyone else. Oh dear. Not ohh dear, but communicate with him, revert his commits and be done with it. And please, next time let's not disscuss it what he was intended to do. Post indicated that he worked with OSM, period. We can't waste our time arguing every time somehting like this pops up. People don't dig copyright, period. They think it is absurd that they can't trace sat/ortphotos. So such mistakes will come out now and then. Cheers everyone, Peter. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Illegal activity
2009/10/30 Kirill Bestoujev bestou...@gmail.com: You just got me wrong - I'm truing to say, that Google understands, that any court trial will fail - there is too much doubt about possibility to use copyright laws to space fotos. If they were sure that they will win - they would have done it. But they are not sure - so the fear to start the trial, cause loosing would meen that everyone will know they were wrong! Do you know what Google as entity thinks or you just assume? Photo can be and *is* copyright subject (PD only when specially noted). What do you don't get about that? Grey area is - is tracing over sat/ortphotos creation of derative works, or not? There are speculations that as these photos shows 'facts', that copying 'facts' from these copyright works aren't actually derative and therefore not a copyright violation. However, there is no clear legal indication about one situation or another. And as someone pointed it - no serious company will touch OSM if there will be that kind of doubt about legality of data. I know it is frustrating and sometimes people want to do that in spite, but this won't help anyone, especially OSM. Cheers, Peter. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Illegal activity
Is there anything that OSM does officially regarding these kind of people of they are just ignored until somebody starts asking questions? It is near impossible to check out every user and what sources it uses. If there is indication, that user uses source wrong or doesn't have permission to do so, it is healthy to inform his first, maybe he is just confused with all these concepts of copyright. If he doesn't answer, then admin could warn him somehow. If then doesn't seem to be answer, let's block him and investigate how to revert his commits. If user are silent about his sources, then even Google will have hard time to prove that he copied something from them. We can only react to visible violations like this. Did you tried to contact user about this? Cheers, Peter. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Instead of voting
2009/10/11 Richard Bullock rb...@cantab.net: 2) Use existing keys if you can. When you use a key, check to see if there's an existing value that matches what you are mapping. To go looking, put your key into the following URL where it says shop: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:shop 3) Use existing tags if you can. When you use a tag (key=value), check to see if an existing tag is already documented. Don't use it in a different way if it's already documented. To go looking, change this URL where it says shop=car: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:shop=car 5) If you disagree with the definition of the key or value, then create a new key or value with a different name, use it in your editing, document it in the wiki, AND (this is important) edit the page for the tag you disagree with so that it mentions your tag as an alternative so that people understand that there is disagreement. Link to tagwatch / osmdoc / tagstat so that people can find out which is more often used in practice. I'm not sure 2 + 3 sit well with 5 here; Use existing tags, unless you don't like them, in which case create your own way to tag things. I think we should be encouraging use of the well established tags for the current purpose. (Which we already do in many cases - very few people in my country use the main highway=* tags for anything different). We could end up with many alternatives on the wiki for particularly well used tags - that will be very confusing for newbies (and others alike) I would probably have something saying; Tags or keys already in well established use should not be changed unless there are very compelling reasons. Aesthetic reasons are generally unlikely to be considered compelling for this purpose. The proposal to change existing well-established tags should be discussed on the tagging mailing list. The level of consensus needed to be reached for changing these tags should be much higher than for proposing new tags. New tags can be used without voting, however it may be worth discussing possibilites with others on the tagging mailing list first. Well, I think there is wrong reasoning about using existing tags or creating new ones. I think tag standardizing efforts should be driven where it matters most - for all kind of traffic for example. I don't really care how shop tagging goes on, it can be really tag first, standartize after. However roads, railroads, etc. should have some common ground to work on, because those data matters first. POIs are very useful, but they are still POI. Just my humble opinion,. Cheers, Peter. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] RSS Gateway for osm.o mailing list digests
Hi people! Is there RSS service which offers posts/diggests from osm.o mailing lists (or any mailing list)? I love vibrant discussions in talk and other lists, but sometimes RSS feed with digest would help concencrate on reading instead of chasing posts and answers to them. Cheers, Peter. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Residential road on a hill
I don't think footway=yes|no is properly documented, but it is referred to in a few places, and I haven't come across an alternative tagging for it. Richard I just draw footway separately, simply because they are off the road several meters and sometimes goes in opposite directions. Cheers, Peter. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] [tagging] Feature Proposal - Voting - boolean values
2009/10/3 John Smith deltafoxtrot...@gmail.com: 2009/10/3 James Livingston doc...@mac.com: On 03/10/2009, at 5:02 PM, Konrad Skeri wrote: Time to end this debate http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/boolean_values Oh, and this: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/VotingOnTheWikiIsStupid Not that I'm disagreeing, but simply saying something is a bad idea and there is no point to it isn't very useful. Instead we should be striving for something that is a good idea to replace it with, at this stage the only 3 options are: * do what ever you like * benevolent dictator * committee The first is going to cause problems later on due to ideologically differences. The second is the best option in theory, but not always the best option in practise. The third is generally the best option in practise most of the time, it should comprise of no more than 10 people, preferably 5 since the more people involved the less people are going to come to a consensus. Actually more important question - why people which love mapping (and I guess we all do, otherwise we wouldn't be here), are discussing such simple things as BOOLEAN values in a midday of the Saturday? (ok, for others it is probably very very early morning). I mean, COME ON, it is already governing practice to use YES, or NO. No, 0 or 1, or true or false won't be supported. Because we don't have infinitive time to decide on such basic THINGS. It is common sense to move on such things even if you don't like it. I don't like lot of stuff in current OSM tagging scene, but I write notes, put migration paths for future for objects I draw and then later I will decide if I can advance futher (for example, to do micromapping when tagging for it setles down). And yes, tagging needs comittee and needs seperate list. And it needs chain of decision command. Otherwise we spend time hitting dead horses and not mapping. Sorry for a rant, but it seems very strange when people push freedom of decision just a sake of freedom of decision. We don't try to push our rules of driving on streets. We follow current rules and common sense. Maybe let's try to do it also here. Cheers, Peter. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Should Bridges be independent of their ways?
2009/9/22 Dave F. dave...@madasafish.com: Hi Peter I can suggest to add bridge's physical form to this. Otherwise yeah, why not. It would also help to indicate where bridge actually starts and ends to help routing software logic. Why would routing software need to know the extent of a bridge? For routing software for example to say: Turn there, go across the bridge and then after 100 meters go left? Bridge is kinda very big object in every town or city. Giving perspective where it starts and where it ends you give additional information for routing software to inform it's user how to find things relatively to the bridge. Cheers Dave F. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk -- mortigi tempo Pēteris Krišjānis ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
