Re: [talk-au] Able to host a tile.osm.org CDN node?
Hi Michael, That sounds great. Don't mind waiting a bit. Ubuntu 18.04, we'll manage all setup after initial installation. SSH public keys: https://github.com/openstreetmap/chef/blob/master/cookbooks/accounts/files/default/grant/.ssh/authorized_keys https://github.com/openstreetmap/chef/blob/master/cookbooks/accounts/files/default/tomh/.ssh/authorized_keys Our best contact for follow-up is operations AT osmfoundation DOT org Kind regards, Grant On Sun, 24 Feb 2019 at 09:10, Michael wrote: > > Hi Grant > > I have most of the hardware in place already for this. > > The only thing I don’t have right now is a router that can handle the higher > speed plan from my ISP that would be required. > > How urgently do you guys want something in place? > > Thanks Michael > > > > -Original Message- > > From: Grant Slater > > Sent: Wednesday, 20 February 2019 5:54 AM > > To: talk-au > > Subject: [talk-au] Able to host a tile.osm.org CDN node? > > > > Hi OpenStreetMap Talk-AU, > > > > Quick Introduction: I am part of the volunteer Operations team who run the > > OpenStreetMap.org infrastructure. > > > > Our tile.openstreetmap.org CDN would greatly benefit from having a cache > > server in Australia and/or New Zealand. It would make the default rendered > > map > > on OpenStreetMap.org much faster for Australians. > > > > The live CDN Country -> Edge Cache Mapping: > > https://dns.openstreetmap.org/tile.openstreetmap.org.html > > > > Know anyone who could help? > > We're ideally looking for a physical server or powerful VM with 8GB+ RAM and > > at least 146GB of storage. > > More details here: https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Servers/Tile_CDN > > > > Our current peak AU traffic is currently around 18,000,000 Bits per second. > > > > Full breakdown here in bps: > > https://git.openstreetmap.org/dns.git/blob/HEAD:/bandwidth/tile.openstreetm > > ap.yml > > > > Feel free to contact me off-list if you prefer. > > > > Kind regards, > > > > Grant > > > > ___ > > Talk-au mailing list > > Talk-au@openstreetmap.org > > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au > ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] [Talk-nz] Able to host a tile.osm.org CDN node?
Hi John, We have universities, internet exchanges, hosting companies and some individuals which host servers for us. The full list is here: https://hardware.openstreetmap.org/thanks/ We fully manage the software and operating system. All config is managed via our chef https://github.com/openstreetmap/chef . We also run a local firewall on each server. If physical hardware, we monitor using it SMART, hp-health, etc and report any hardware issues back to the hosting organisation. AWS bandwidth is extremely expensive and is unlikely to be the most effective way of improving OpenStreetMap. Most of the bandwidth used by a regional tile cache is "local". We've had hosting and Internet Exchanges who have appreciated hosting these caches, because they've then been able to negotiate better peering agreements with others. Kind regards, Grant On Tue, 19 Feb 2019 at 22:32, John Bryant wrote: > > Hi Grant, it would be great to have something up and running here. What kind > of org usually provides this elsewhere? Unis, companies, individuals? Is > there a technical maintenance component required, or is this just hardware? > AWS has a Sydney location, would this be a viable option? > > Thanks, John > > On Wed, 20 Feb 2019 at 06:55, Grant Slater > wrote: >> >> Hi OpenStreetMap Talk-AU, >> >> Quick Introduction: I am part of the volunteer Operations team who run >> the OpenStreetMap.org infrastructure. >> >> Our tile.openstreetmap.org CDN would greatly benefit from having a >> cache server in Australia and/or New Zealand. It would make the >> default rendered map on OpenStreetMap.org much faster for Australians. >> >> The live CDN Country -> Edge Cache Mapping: >> https://dns.openstreetmap.org/tile.openstreetmap.org.html >> >> Know anyone who could help? >> We're ideally looking for a physical server or powerful VM with 8GB+ >> RAM and at least 146GB of storage. >> More details here: https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Servers/Tile_CDN >> >> Our current peak AU traffic is currently around 18,000,000 Bits per second. >> >> Full breakdown here in bps: >> https://git.openstreetmap.org/dns.git/blob/HEAD:/bandwidth/tile.openstreetmap.yml >> >> Feel free to contact me off-list if you prefer. >> >> Kind regards, >> >> Grant >> >> ___ >> Talk-au mailing list >> Talk-au@openstreetmap.org >> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au > > ___ > Talk-nz mailing list > talk...@openstreetmap.org > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-nz ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
[talk-au] Able to host a tile.osm.org CDN node?
Hi OpenStreetMap Talk-AU, Quick Introduction: I am part of the volunteer Operations team who run the OpenStreetMap.org infrastructure. Our tile.openstreetmap.org CDN would greatly benefit from having a cache server in Australia and/or New Zealand. It would make the default rendered map on OpenStreetMap.org much faster for Australians. The live CDN Country -> Edge Cache Mapping: https://dns.openstreetmap.org/tile.openstreetmap.org.html Know anyone who could help? We're ideally looking for a physical server or powerful VM with 8GB+ RAM and at least 146GB of storage. More details here: https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Servers/Tile_CDN Our current peak AU traffic is currently around 18,000,000 Bits per second. Full breakdown here in bps: https://git.openstreetmap.org/dns.git/blob/HEAD:/bandwidth/tile.openstreetmap.yml Feel free to contact me off-list if you prefer. Kind regards, Grant ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Increased precision options for Australia - QZSS, SBAS or Galileo
Hi All, I have 2 of these for RTK GNSS receivers: https://emlid.com/reachrs/ 1 ReachRS unit becomes the RTK static "base" and you needs a very accurate position measurement and good signal. To get the most accurate measurement I use my base and connect it to another base using an NTRIP network. I'm in the United Kingdom and I connect to the free NTRIP network available here: http://www.euref-ip.net/home . I've also used the South African free NTRIP network trignet.co.za Geoscience Australia seem to offer a NTRIP network here: https://www.auscors.ga.gov.au/ Note that max workable distance between base and rover is only around 20km. I've got it to work at 80km, but needs exceptionally clear area (unobstructed sky) and a lot of patience to get the position fix. Once I have my static ReachRS measured, I then connect it up to the 2nd ReachRS as a roving unit via built-in radio or Cellphone. A reasonable maximum distance between Base and Rover is around 20km. The rover is good for measuring points, but starts to struggle if moved above walking pace or has an obstructed sky (read: trees etc) Repeatable accuracy is <10cm horizontal and similar vertical. It is possible to do the above with a single unit if you can rely on an existing NTRIP network, but I believe you then cannot then use the GLONASS network for getting a fix due to different antenna types between base and rover. The ReachRS is a single frequency receiver and needs better signal and is slower to sync than a dual frequency receiver. In the next year or 2 there are likely to be more dual frequency receivers from the likes of u-blox. The swiftnav.com unit looks interesting. The ReachRS receiver uses a u-blox Neo-M8T chip and the rtklib software. A homebrew alternative would be to use http://www.csgshop.com/product.php?id_product=257 and rtklib yourself. See: https://www.blackdotgnss.com/2017/03/25/u-blox-neo-m8t-part-i/ Interest? Highly recommend blog: https://rtklibexplorer.wordpress.com/ Kind regards, Grant On 12 June 2018 at 10:58, Leith Bade wrote: > If you want to do RTK you can do it for less then $1000 now. The company I > work for makes one of these lower cost options https://www.swiftnav.com. RTK > enabled centimetre level positioning with a good $600 antenna. > > If you want to use the SBAS trial you need a receiver that allows you to > select the SBAS satellite PRN ID of 122 and will allow a good receiver to > get about ~1.5m accuracy. For example the Ublox receivers will work, as will > most standalone GPS receivers > > Galileo is still under development, will offer similar performance to GPS. > It will be another 2 years before this system is complete with all 24 > satellites. > > Android devices are hard-coded by the manufacturer as far as the GPS > settings so you would need to wait for an Android update that knows about > the Australian satellite and QZSS (which might take several years to be > common place). > > My recommendation is to look at standalone GPS receiver like a Ublox M8 > based device, that uses an external magnetic antenna you put on your car's > roof. > > > Thanks, > Leith Bade > le...@bade.nz > > On 12 June 2018 at 12:39, Alex Sims wrote: >> >> Hi, >> >> >> >> I’m really wanting to have better accuracy from GPS for use with >> Openstreetmap. I can use survey marks and a laser rangefinder, but having a >> portable GPS would make so much easier to fix errors where objects have been >> armchair mapped or even GPS mapped with errors up to 3 meters. >> >> >> >> I have tried three approaches >> >> QZSS – I can see this on my Android mobile phone but it doesn’t seem to be >> used. It seems as though I need a Japanese market device and even then I’m >> not sure I’ll get an increase >> Galileo – looks promising but when I’ve tested on supported devices >> (friends who have recent phones) the accuracy isn’t delivered. Further >> investigation shows that there aren’t enough satellites in service yet most >> of the day to give 4 visible. (Using GNSS View http://qzss.go.jp/en/ English >> text) >> Lastly the SBAS trial from Geoscience Australia - >> http://www.ga.gov.au/scientific-topics/positioning-navigation/positioning-for-the-future/satellite-based-augmentation-system >> - nothing magical has happened with any of the consumer grade devices I have >> access to. Also not sure how to test on an Android device if it is being >> used. >> >> >> >> Has anyone obtained sub-meter accuracy from any of these approaches, it >> must be possible? >> >> >> >> Please discuss. >> >> >> >> Alex >> >> >> ___ >> Talk-au mailing list >> Talk-au@openstreetmap.org >> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au >> > > > ___ > Talk-au mailing list > Talk-au@openstreetmap.org > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au > ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org
[talk-au] AGRI Imagery
Hi Talk-AU, I'm still working to fully restore the Australian Geographic Reference Image (AGRI) site I run after the hardware failure... AGRI? https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Australian_Geographic_Reference_Image I now have the tiles up and running again and they can be used in the editors JOSM / iD or similar. Issues still to resolve: * Currently no web interface to access the tiles. * Large black stripes over the overlapping sections of the imagery. * Poor performance, currently no caching. I hope to fix the remaining issues over the next few weeks. Technical: The code used for serving the imagery is managed using opscode chef: https://github.com/openstreetmap/chef/blob/master/cookbooks/imagery/recipes/au_agri.rb Kind regards, Grant ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] AGRI.openstreetmap.org not working
Hi All, Sorry... Not yet been able to get access to the broken machine. It will remain high on my task list to get it up and running again. Longer term the rest of the sysadmin team are planning to replace faffy with a better more reliable imagery server. / Grant On 10 Aug 2014 12:25, Andrew Harvey andrew.harv...@gmail.com wrote: On 6 July 2014 15:30, Grant Slater openstreet...@firefishy.com wrote: We had a problem with the server (faffy) which runs agri.openstreetmap.org, it no longer starts up, we were limited on time and were not able to get it up and running again. I will visit the data centre in a week to fix or replace the hardware. I do find the AGRI imagery useful and it would be great if we could access it again. Many thanks for all your effort Grant, hopefully you are able to fix the remaining issues. ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] AGRI.openstreetmap.org not working
Hi, We had a problem with the server (faffy) which runs agri.openstreetmap.org, it no longer starts up, we were limited on time and were not able to get it up and running again. I will visit the data centre in a week to fix or replace the hardware. Regards Grant Part of sysadmin team On 6 July 2014 01:25, Paul Norman penor...@mac.com wrote: On 2014-07-05 5:03 PM, Ross Scanlon wrote: As the title says agri.openstreetmap.org does not appear to be working. Cheers Ross A number of servers are being moved to a new data center at UCL. See https://blog.openstreetmap.org/ for more info. I believe the move is complete, and everything should now be working. See the announcement for the full list of servers, but in short, no primary services had outages planned and the only secondary services with outages were Nominatim* and a reduced rendering capacity. * Searches through openstreetmap.org were redirected to another Nominatim instance ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] AU openstreetmapS.com domain squatter
On 21 March 2014 00:48, Michael Gratton m...@vee.net wrote: Whois reports the registrar is KEY-SYSTEMS GMBH http://www.key-systems.net/, which appears to be a German registrar. Yes, I contacted them a few months ago. Received a response, unlikely to have much luck following that route. I'll happily call him. I guess OSM is looking for him to transfer it back as a donation, i.e. is not willing to pay? I'd be willing to pay normal time and cost for the transfer, but not ransom money. / Grant ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] AU openstreetmapS.com domain squatter
On 20 March 2014 21:56, David Bannon dban...@internode.on.net wrote: Grant, are you suggesting the domain is being held in a cyber squatting mode ? That Michael is holding it with the intention of making a profit from it ? The domain is used to catch openstreetmap typos. Many newbies mistakenly believe the project called openstreetmapS The openstreetmapS.com domain serves advertising and paid redirects. Some with questionable content. Money is being made by exploiting our project's name. / Grant ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
[talk-au] AU openstreetmapS.com domain squatter
Hi OSM Australia, Anyone up for this? The openstreetmapS.com domain is being held by Michael Gilmour of parklogic.com for sale. He is based in Camberwell, Victoria, Australia. The domain was originally registered on behalf of OpenStreetMap in 2007 but was accidentally not renewed. Would any Australian OpenStreetMap member be willing to give him a ring and discuss the project and transferring the domain back to the project? OpenStreetMap Foundation does have a trademark on the 'OpenStreetMap' name to protect against such instances, but I'd prefer to try other remedies before legal action. Kind regards, Grant Part of OpenStreetMap sysadmin team ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Problems saving input to OSM
Hi Guys, Happy to help diagnose this with someone. Does this effect anyone using JOSM? Easiest way is to contact me in channel #osm-dev on irc: http://irc.osm.org/ Regards Grant Part of OSM sysadmin team On 1 October 2013 05:56, Steve Bennett stevag...@gmail.com wrote: Potlatch2 or ID? If Potlatch2, I have similar issues - I just keep trying, and eventually it saves. Steve On Tue, Oct 1, 2013 at 7:51 AM, Arthur Geeson ag200...@gmail.com wrote: Hi, I have just arrived back in Australia following several months in the UK and have been logging on to OSM with no troubles but when I try to save my map changes the save just seems to hang for most of the time. I have had a couple of good sessions where it has saved well. Any one one able to help? Thanks Arthur (geesona) ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] ISP caching problems with JOSM ?
Hi Ian, The api.openstreetmap.org map data servers send no-cache headers and proxy/caches should therefore NOT be caching the results... But some ISPs are too aggressive with their caching. Make sure JOSM is set to the default OSM server (there are 3rd party caching API servers available): JOSM - Edit - Preferences (shortcut: F12) - Connection Settings (World Icon) - make sure: User the default OSM server URL is checked. I am happy to help diagnose the error with you. Regards Grant On 12 September 2013 13:01, Steer ist...@iinet.net.au wrote: I’m wondering if I’m striking caching problems with my ISP or my PC. I make changes and upload them with no error messages and close JOSM. I re-open the next day, and my changes aren’t there – but they are present in the “slippy map”. I re-do them and upload them and get a conflict saying the server version is newer than mine. I can close JOSM, re-open and re-download, and the server version and my version don’t change. I have googled this problem, but it was all a bit above my head. Does anyone have a solution for this problem they can describe in simple terms ? J thanks Ian ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] New tile rendering server (Experimental)
On 5 August 2013 03:58, Hamish Campbell hamish.campb...@koordinates.com wrote: HI Grant, Wondering if this is related, there seem to be a few faulty tiles: E.g.: http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=-46.080780029296875lon=167.288818359375zoom=10 Zoom in and out - the woodland cover is there, but not rendered at some zoom levels for specific tiles. Likely old cached tiles showing. Create a permalink and try a browser refresh. Likely, or should I file a bug elsewhere? The best location for reporting bugs with the stylesheet is: https://github.com/gravitystorm/openstreetmap-carto/issues / Grant ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] New tile rendering server (Experimental)
On 24 July 2013 10:45, David Clark dbcl...@fastmail.com.au wrote: Does that mean it will be easier (therefore more likely) to improve the rendering of OpenCyclemap? That would be good. This is unrelated to OpenCycleMap. OpenCycleMap is a separate project by Andy Allan (gravitystorm) / Grant ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] New tile rendering server (Experimental)
On 23 July 2013 15:08, David Clark dbcl...@fastmail.com.au wrote: Sorry I don't really understand this, how will this affect me and what I see? Hopefully you shouldn't see any difference. :-) It is a large behind the scenes change on how we produce the default map tiles (view) for OpenStreetMap.org The old map stylesheet was a mass of difficult to understand XML. The new map stylesheet is completely re-written in a much cleaner CartoCSS syntax. Easier to maintain and improve, it is also easier to customise it for other projects. Andy Allan's talk explains it better than I could to: http://vimeopro.com/openstreetmapus/state-of-the-map-us-2013/video/68093876 We have also changed the server infrastructure used for rendering the map tiles. The old server was becoming very complicated to maintain and administer due to the many layers of complexity, code, and undocumented hacks built up over time. The new server is setup using an automated devops system (opscode chef). The chef cookbook we wrote is here: http://git.openstreetmap.org/chef.git/tree/HEAD:/cookbooks/tile Regards Grant ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
[talk-au] New tile rendering server (Experimental)
Hi Oceania (Talk-AU and nzopengis), I have just switched the default OpenStreetMap.org “Mapnik style” map tiles for tile.openstreetmap.org in the Oceania region across to our new rendering server. The new rendering server has been tested and is now ready for production. We’re migrating traffic over region-by-region and the Oceania region is the first to go live. The countries in the Oceania region affected are those with dark green links on this map: http://dns.openstreetmap.org/tile.openstreetmap.org.html In addition to new hardware, the rendering server also uses the new “openstreetmap-carto” stylesheets. These are a complete re-write of the XML stylesheets to use CartoCSS, making them easier for our cartographers to work with. Andy Allan’s great talk at State of the Map US described the reason for the stylesheet re-write: http://stateofthemap.us/saturday.html#schedule/saturday/putting-the-carto-into-openstreetmap-cartography The map tiles will be slightly slower at medium-high zooms while the server builds up its cache. The style is designed to look the same as the current XML stylesheet. The “openstreetmap-carto” stylesheet is maintained here: https://github.com/gravitystorm/openstreetmap-carto Big Thank you to #osm-dev for helping draft this announcement. Kind regards Grant Slater Part of the OSM Sysadmin Team ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
[talk-au] Mini Milestone
Talk-au, Seems a few weeks ago the OSM Australia extract size surpassed the pre-redaction extract size.* 128MB - http://download.geofabrik.de/openstreetmap/australia-oceania/australia.osm.pbf vs 125MB - http://download.geofabrik.de/osm-before-redaction/australia-oceania/australia.osm.pbf *: Understood that data size does not equate data quality, but impressive given the short period of time. / Grant ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
[talk-au] New Australian caching server. Feedback?
OSM Australia, Have you noticed faster tiles this week? Australia now has a map caching server located in Brisbane. The server is used to speed up the standard tile.osm.org Mapnik map style. Browsing the map on http://www.openstreetmap.org/ should now be more responsive. This new server, named 'bunyip', first started providing tiles on Tuesday. We thank Kris Amy ( https://twitter.com/krisamy ) for providing the server and hosting. Thank you, Kris! If anyone experiences any issues or hiccups, please let me know. Technical: Server specs are here: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Servers/bunyip OpenStreetMap tile servers use GeoDNS (PowerDNS with Geo backend) to locate the closest tile server. The DNS regions / cache-server can be viewed here: http://dns.openstreetmap.org/tile.openstreetmap.org.html To check which server you are being directed to use the command: nslookup tile.openstreetmap.org or dig tile.openstreetmap.org Regards Grant Part of OSM sysadmin team ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] A new user's edits
On 23 August 2012 12:07, Sam Russell g.samuelruss...@gmail.com wrote: Could someone have a look over CoolDude16501 's edits? The railway line running under the Pacific Ocean looks suspect, and the user's response to an email isn't heartening. As a new user myself, I'm not equipped to deal with the welcoming, investigation or results elements of this users' edits. Yes, seems like deliberate vandalism. I have placed a temporary block on the user's account and am looking into reverting the user's changes. http://www.openstreetmap.org/user_blocks/222 / Grant ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Improved AGRI Imagery Online
On 8 August 2012 02:14, Ian Sergeant inas66+...@gmail.com wrote:
On 7 August 2012 22:54, Grant Slater openstreet...@firefishy.com wrote:
Currently the 7 zones are stacked left to right.
I quickly hacked up a right to left stack:
http://agri.openstreetmap.org/?layers=0B0
tms url is: http://a.agri.openstreetmap.org/rtl/{zoom}/{x}/{y}.png
There are a few regions which are better but not a huge amounts. Some
regions better, some worse.
This is easy to work with in JOSM. Just load both layers, and click on and
off to get the best view. Is this additional layer going to stay?
Sure, if it is useful then I see no need to remove it.
My next task is working on the South African 0.5m colour imagery I
received from the Chief Directorate: National Geo-spatial
Information (South African national mapping agency).
Maybe GeoScience Australia has similar imagery?
Would be nice! :-)
I notice the landsat imagery on at GA is also CC-BY in much the same way as
the AGRI imagery was (including the soon to be released landsat 8).
Although I don't think the resolution will be as good as AGRI, it could be
useful to check for change, etc. Is it possible to contact the same source
as before at GA, and confirm that they don't want any rights in data traced
from their other CC-BY imagery?
I believe the landsat imagery is fairly low resolution. 15m to 100m...
Might still be useful, GA are going to be publishing daily updates.
On the question, I suspect it will be the same case for their other
CC-BY imagery in that they want the use of the imagery attributed but
not worried about attribution on new works derived from the imagery.
Happy to contact or forward contact details once there is a specific case.
Regards
Grant
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Re: [talk-au] Improved AGRI Imagery Online
On 6 August 2012 12:18, Andrew Harvey andrew.harv...@gmail.com wrote:
Thanks Grant!
The cloud cover is a shame. Regarding your comments on removing it, how
much overlap (therefore choice) is there of the source images? Would
this overlay (if any) mostly occur at the zone boundaries?
Currently the 7 zones are stacked left to right.
I quickly hacked up a right to left stack:
http://agri.openstreetmap.org/?layers=0B0
tms url is: http://a.agri.openstreetmap.org/rtl/{zoom}/{x}/{y}.png
There are a few regions which are better but not a huge amounts. Some
regions better, some worse.
Some nice photos of outback Australia there too.
I received help converting the ground control database from ArcGIS
File Geodatabase to CSV:
CSV is here: http://agri.openstreetmap.org/download/AGRI_GCP/AGRI_GCP.gdb.csv
The first column + Folder column link to the photos/sketches here:
http://agri.openstreetmap.org/download/AGRI_GCP/Ancillary_data/
Example Photo:
http://agri.openstreetmap.org/download/AGRI_GCP/Ancillary_data/Zone_55_Bottom/Photographs/26436002_N_photo.jpg
Example Sketch:
http://agri.openstreetmap.org/download/AGRI_GCP/Ancillary_data/Zone_55_Bottom/Site_Sketches/26436002_sketch.jpg
Maybe someone wants to create a OpenLayers webapp with the
photo/sketches geolocated using the above CSV? Or maybe adding EXIF
Geo data to the images?
My next task is working on the South African 0.5m colour imagery I
received from the Chief Directorate: National Geo-spatial
Information (South African national mapping agency).
Maybe GeoScience Australia has similar imagery?
Regards
Grant
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[talk-au] Improved AGRI Imagery Online
Talk-AU, I have updated the http://agri.openstreetmap.org/ imagery. JOSM and Potlatch2 both imagery presets. 1) Fixed the black strip/blob issue at the overlap regions. 2) Improved the projection accuracy. (epsg:32749 to 32756) 3) Speed improvement. (Fixed double projection bug and needless resampling) The imagery took 2 weeks to process after a number of false starts. Download: AGRI technical report + Legal + Control point photos are available here: http://agri.openstreetmap.org/download/ (also rsync://faffy.osm.org/agri_extra/ ) Example control photo: http://agri.openstreetmap.org/download/AGRI_GCP/Ancillary_data/Zone_52_Middle/Photographs/57406502_N_photo.jpg I would appreciate help converting the ArcGIS database to a shapefile or similar: http://agri.openstreetmap.org/download/AGRI_GCP/AGRI_GCP.gdb/ (download all files here: http://agri.openstreetmap.org/download/AGRI_GCP/temp-AGRI_GCP.zip ) I believe the DB was created with ArcGIS 9.x. Seems gdal/ogr is only able to handle v10 databases. The compressed (lossless) imagery files and MapServer file are available for download here: rsync://faffy.osm.org/agri_imagery/ The *.tif.ovr are lossy overview files can be rebuilt locally by using the gdaladdo command below. Please be restrained in downloading the files, 1.2TB will take a long time. I'd appreciate a heads-up email prior to anyone downloading the imagery. Technical: 1) I reprocessed all the imagery from the source 2.8TB of ENVI rasters to 1.2TB of GeoTIFF (BigTIFF, lossless DEFLATE z9): 2) Built gdaladdo JPEG overviews. gdal commands used: gdal_translate -of GTiff -co COMPRESS=DEFLATE -co PREDICTOR=2 -co ZLEVEL=9 -co TILED=YES -co BLOCKXSIZE=512 -co BLOCKYSIZE=512 -co TFW=YES -co BIGTIFF=YES -a_srs epsg:32755 PRISM_UTM55 PRISM_UTM55.tif gdaladdo -ro --config COMPRESS_OVERVIEW JPEG --config JPEG_QUALITY_OVERVIEW 75 --config INTERLEAVE_OVERVIEW PIXEL --config PHOTOMETRIC YCBCR --config BIGTIFF_OVERVIEW YES --config GDAL_TIFF_OVR_BLOCKSIZE 512 -r gauss PRISM_UTM55.tif 2 4 8 16 32 64 128 256 512 1024 2048 4096 8192 Future: The server should be upgraded in the next 2 weeks. I currently do not have any future plans on reprocessing the imagery further. Others may wish to look at how to selectively choose the best imagery where there is a region overlap to reduce the cloud cover. Any questions? Happy to assist others in getting imagery online. Regards Grant ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
[talk-au] Plea to Australian decliners
Australian Decliners, As a mapper, contributor and member of the project's sysadmin team I kindly ask you to please reconsider your declined status. Time is about to run out. The strength of the project is mappers (bonus points to GPS mappers) and other contributors. If you have decided to move onto FOSM.org, CommonMap or other fork I wish you luck and morn the loss of you as an OSM mapper. Declining hurts fellow Australian mappers who have in good faith build data on-top of your contributions and will leave animosity between our projects. Thanks Grant Mapper and overworked volunteer OpenStreetMap sysadmin. This message is all mine. I am not some cheap rent boy paid by OSMF, Bing / Microsoft, MapQuest / AOL, Lizard-People or any other group. ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Plea to Australian decliners
On 30 March 2012 21:43, John Smith deltafoxtrot...@gmail.com wrote: On 31 March 2012 01:54, Grant Slater openstreet...@firefishy.com wrote: Australian Decliners, As a mapper, contributor and member of the project's sysadmin team I kindly ask you to please reconsider your declined status. Time is about to run out. You and others didn't care about us, told us to go away as we were insignificant and our issue were unimportant and now you come begging for us to reconsider. Bull. Michael Collinson spent months trying to get approval from data.gov.au for approval... finally did. Pity the importer refuses to relicence even if the data is OK. LWG spent months negotiation with NearMap and got approval, but not exactly how we hoped. OSM(F) is not some nefarious organisation... I'm like everyone else in the project it doing it for fun, interesting and for the making something great... I have a real day job that is not related to osm. Mr John Anonymous Smith... the community will be better without you. Glad the license change is nearly over and we can get back to what we enjoy... Mapping and building the bloody best map (data) of the world. Regards Grant ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] New Australian Aerial Imagery
On 11 March 2012 09:57, Ross Scanlon i...@4x4falcon.com wrote: The positional accuracy seems to be excellent. I have already used the imagery to add a few missing railway line sections in Western Australia. It takes a little while to get used to the imagery being grayscale. In JOSM I’ve found it helpful to add some colour to the imagery by overlaying the imagery over a Bing background with AGRI layer set slightly transparent. Link to the railway sections please. I've added missing sections of Brookfield Rail (former WestNet Rail) in Southern Western Australia. Mainly sections of the Albany to Avon main line and in-use branches (eg Narrogin) travelling east. I was unsure about a branch line travelling east out of Katanning and have added a FIXME denoting this: http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/154456781 I have also improved the accuracy of a small section of the Ghan railway south of Alice Springs and Trans-Australian Railway west of Kalgoorlie. Changesets can be viewed here: http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/Firefishy/edits I'm just curious about how the imagery shows up. I am unsure what you mean... can you expand? Regards Grant ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] AGRI: 2.5m CC-BY Australian Satellite Imagery
On 20 February 2012 21:58, Andrew Harvey andrew.harv...@gmail.com wrote: https://www.ga.gov.au/products/servlet/controller?event=GEOCAT_DETAILScatno=72657 Not sure if anyone would find this useful for non-nearmaped areas. Comes with a $250 price tag (but CC-BY licensed) and a fair bit of work to get it usable in JOSM, and its only black and white I believe. Practically not really useful I think, but the geogeek inside me still wants to check it out... I am happy to help + host. I currently have a pet project helping with aerial imagery + out of copyright maps. Examples (all work in progress): * Surrey England: http://faffy.openstreetmap.org/?zoom=11lat=51.26407lon=-0.43075layers=0B00 * Out of Copyright UK: http://faffy.openstreetmap.org/?zoom=7lat=53.29355lon=-2.49618layers=00B0 * South Africa Topographic: http://grant.dev.openstreetmap.org/cdsm-tiles-test/ (early attempt, pre-rendered) My current setup uses MapServer and TileCache. Re-projection and tiling is on-demand. The imagery is a fair bit of storage, but I'm sure I could work something out. Regards Grant ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Finding missing streetnames
On 6 January 2012 04:57, Mark Pulley mrpul...@lizzy.com.au wrote: Quoting Chris Barham cbar...@pobox.com: On Fri, Jan 6, 2012 at 13:47, David Findlay da...@woodypointcomms.com.au wrote: Cloudmade has a noname map style: http://maps.cloudmade.com/?lat=-26.758333lng=152.854242zoom=14styleId=3opened_tab=0 This used to be also available from the main OSM maps, but I've just noticed it has disappeared - anyone know why? Yes, the Cloudmade noname layer was (is?) upto a few months behind current OSM data and at times suffered from poor performance. Poor reflection of OSM. 2 new layers were added in its place; OCM Transport Layer (pushing features in rendering, fairly unique style, current) and MapQuest Open (Regional styles, looks good, current) Nonames layer has also been replaced by better tech as per thread. (eg: OSM Inspector) Regards Grant ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Where did the town go?
On 1 December 2011 13:48, John Henderson snow...@gmx.com wrote: On 01/12/11 22:34, Mark Pulley wrote: User cc-cleaner? I've had a quick look at some of the changesets, and they all seem to be just deleting things. I have a suspicion that the things being deleted are by users who haven't agreed to the new license, but I didn't think we were up to this stage yet. Should we get all of these changesets undone? I've also just noticed that most of Cobar has gone. I did some edits on the way through in May, some of these have been left alone, but some have disappeared completely or been replaced by highway=road. As one example, here is Louth Road: http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/119756523 This is just a stub, this used to link on to the other roads. No idea why this has been done, as I *have* agreed to the new license, so my edits don't need to be done again. (This was done by Firefishy, who doesn't even live in Australia - I've just sent him a message to enquire about this particular way.) I saw the same relationship with Firefishy (from South Africa) and went to bed puzzling about the coincidence. Firefishy was adding in a little data within minutes of cc-cleaner's massive deletes. I woke up a couple of minutes ago realizing that this pair of users must be the licence-change grim reaper at work. I have nothing to do with the cc_cleaner user's deletes/edits. I often watch OSM edits using http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/LiveMapViewer and noticed the deletes of mostly DrLizAU's contributions. I suspected DrLizAU was removing her own contributions, but cannot back this up. I decided to get stuck in and remap what I could easily remotely remap. PS: LiveMapViewer is awesome ;-) Regards Grant ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] [sharedmapau] Re: ODbL data.gov.au permission granted
On 31 October 2011 11:18, 80n 80n...@gmail.com wrote: On Mon, Oct 31, 2011 at 11:14 AM, Sam Couter s...@couter.id.au wrote: Liz ed...@billiau.net wrote: The answer from AGIMO (data.gov.au) will actually be irrelevant. I was hoping that the original communications would make clear exactly how relevant they are. At the moment we're all just guessing. Based on the reply that I received from Grant, he appears to have no intention of providing any information to back up his claims. It's over a month since he was asked to provide the supporting evidence. I think we can conclude that he doesn't have it. 80n you are not a member of the Australian community. You are here to cause trouble and discontent within the Australian community along with your forking friends from the sharedmap and fosm lists. Please, if you truely believe CC-BY-SA 2.0 to be the best license, go and make FOSM.org to be the best mapping project ever Please stop all your inane codswallop and mistruths. Mike of Licensing Working Group has had a number of contacts with data.gov.au and what we received in response is strongly believed to be acceptable permission to use their data and the LWG has reported as such. Regards Grant On behalf of myself. ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] ODbL data.gov.au permission granted
On 27 September 2011 12:09, 80n 80n...@gmail.com wrote: Thank you, Andrew. I wonder if Grant received a similar answer but interpreted it in a different way. Grant? Hi 80n, yes the responses will be forthcoming. We are waiting on some further clarifications. LWG also now only meet fortnightly. 80n, why the interest in Australian gov data licensing? Or maybe we'll never know. ;-) / Grant ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] ODbL data.gov.au permission granted
On 27 September 2011 11:22, Andrew Harvey andrew.harv...@gmail.com wrote: Below I quote the response from the data.gov.au team which I received: OpenStreetMap (OSM) are utilising datasets made available from data.gov.au under CC-BY 2.5 or CC-BY 3.0 only. They are required to attribute the authors correctly, which they now are through their Wiki. This provides an appropriate chain of attribution, in accordance with Creative Commons licensing, for any end user of OSM products. In the example you provided, you as end user would be obliged to attribute OSM when you used the extracted data. They, in turn, are obliged to attribute the original government dataset. We do not consider that what we are providing is “special permission” – we have only clarified our position on appropriate attribution. Andrew, could you share the text of the questions + examples asked? It has an impact on the 2nd paragraph of their response. Regards Grant ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
[talk-au] ODbL data.gov.au permission granted
The Licensing Working Group has obtained explicit special permission to incorporate geographic datasets from data.gov.au in the OpenStreetMap project database published under any free and open license, including ODbL, provided that a) we provide primary attribution in a reasonable manner ( currently http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/Attribution ), and b) that we explicitly list there each dataset used to give useful feedback within the Australian government on how folks are using open data. We have been careful to point out that (under ODbL) we are not asking folks who make visual maps from OpenStreetMap to provide secondary attribution to each and every contributor, so would not be in compliance with the CC-BY Australia 2.5 and 3.0 license their data is normally provided under. They have raised no objection to this. The LWG would like to publicly thank data.gov.au both for providing open geographic data and for providing this permission. The rest of this email is about individual datasets. We have already updated the OpenStreetMap Attribution page here: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Attribution#Australian_government_public_information_datasets You will see two lists. The first are datasets that are definitely from data.gov.au. The second is a list we are unsure of and will be working to contact individual agencies now we have the basic principle in place. The most useful set on the second list is the Australian Bureau of Statistics suburbs dataset. Regretfully, the user who imported the data will not accept the new CTs for the ABS2006 import account and we respect his wishes. However, there appears to be a later 2011 version of the same data (needs confirming) at http://data.gov.au/4105 and he has agreed to make the import program available. We suggest that the old set be deleted completely and replaced. This means that some individual local-knowledge tweaks may be lost, so some discussion might be needed. The Weather Station data is also imported under an account that has declined the new terms. If anyone is interested in re-importing it, we will be happy to approach the Bureau of Meteorology; it very likely needs separate permission. And that leaves these others where we are not yet sure exactly where they came from: * Queensland police stations * NSW Geographic Names Board places (importer contacted) * Queensland national parks, state forests and conservation areas Kind regards Grant On behalf of LWG. ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] [OSM-legal-talk] Bing
On 11 July 2011 10:55, Andrew Harvey andrew.harv...@gmail.com wrote: It is my understanding that Bing essentially said to OSM yes you can upload to OSM. We as a community can't verify this. http://www.microsoft.com/maps/product/terms.html mentions nothing, all we have is http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/File:Bing_license.pdf which we can't verify as authentic. The official Bing blog: http://www.bing.com/community/site_blogs/b/maps/archive/2010/12/01/bing-maps-aerial-imagery-in-openstreetmap.aspx published by Brian Hendricks - Bing Maps Product Manager But even if it is and can be proved to be authentic, unless Microsoft also state that OSM has permission to license traced data it out to others as CC-BY-SA, simply saying yes you can trace and upload to OSM isn't enough in my opinion. As this would be a license specific to OSM, and wouldn't allow others who use OSM data to use the bing data. The traced data is a new work and therefore untainted by the Bing license. (NearMap doesn't see using aerial imagery this way.) The license is also a specific terms of use grant to OSM with the condition the derived data is uploaded to OSM. Regards Grant ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] [OSM-legal-talk] Bing
On 11 July 2011 11:30, Andrew Harvey andrew.harv...@gmail.com wrote: On Mon, Jul 11, 2011 at 8:10 PM, Grant Slater openstreet...@firefishy.com wrote: The traced data is a new work and therefore untainted by the Bing license. (NearMap doesn't see using aerial imagery this way.) The license is also a specific terms of use grant to OSM with the condition the derived data is uploaded to OSM. I can see that the assumption of tracing aerial photography to create a vector representation of the data is creating an entirely new work is potentially problematic. I'm not a lawyer, but I would think that you would want the copyright holder to state that they disclaim any copyright on such traced data just to be sure. Just take a look at this case as an example http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barack_Obama_%22Hope%22_poster#Origin_and_copyright_issues Richard Fairhurst wrote a good piece on the legals around aerial imagery in 2009 Aerial photography, cock fighting and vodka bottles - http://www.systemed.net/blog/legacy/100.html / Grant ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Active Australian OSM contributors in light of CT/license changes
On 7 July 2011 15:09, Steve Coast st...@asklater.com wrote: FOSMs not going anywhere for some simple reasons. The people running it are ineffective, the data will be incompatible when OSM switches, fosm doesn't have any of the agreements to derive data from aerial imagery. I could go on, but those are the big ticket items. Everyone should be aware of the theater show that 80n is running merely to disrupt the community, and it's very sad that so far he's been successful. Some background... 80n was an original founding member of the OSM Foundation (OSMF). 80n failed to be re-elected to the OSMF board in 2009 [1]. 80n and SteveC fell out awhile back... FOSM is hosted on server resources provided for running OpenStreetMap XAPI [2], all code is written by 80n (or his employees) in GT.M / MUMPS Massachusetts General Hospital Utility Multi-Programming System (not a fork of the OSM.org codebase as has been claimed). The source code is not (yet) available. After approaching 1 year of operation FOSM has had ~153 account signups. [3] 1: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Foundation/AGM09 2: UC San Diego hosted server provided by Telascience.org and OSGeo. 3: http://groups.google.com/group/osm-fork/msg/730068be892ea034 Regards Grant ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] [OSM-legal-talk] Statement from nearmap.com regarding submission of derived works from PhotoMaps to OpenStreetMap
On 21 June 2011 09:39, Grant Slater openstreet...@firefishy.com wrote: On 21 June 2011 05:46, Steve Bennett stevag...@gmail.com wrote: Hang on, here's Nearmap's statement: All such additions or edits submitted to OSM prior to 17 June 2011 may be held and continue to be used by OSM under the terms in place between OSM and the individual which submitted the addition or edit at the relevant time. And here's Nick's interpretation: Nearmap wish all contributions to OSM, by any mapper who has agreed to the CT, derived from their imagery (before the 17th June 2011) to be able to be relicenced by OSMF under any licence it (OSMF) chooses at any time. OpenStreetMap.org has had Contributor Terms for at least the last 5 years. See the CTs history here: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Open_Database_License/Contributor_Terms/History Yes, sorry guys. As has been politely pointed out in thread I have missed the point here with the CTs history text. Apologies the link is irrelevant to thread. / Grant Part of the Evil Lizard People ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] ODBL and real life...
On 19 June 2011 14:38, John Smith deltafoxtrot...@gmail.com wrote: Forgot to mention that SVG files are most likely produced works, even those they aren't raster images, so converting to SVG and then back to map data would potentially be pretty trivial. Nearly 12 months since you raised this thread last it was also answered then. Yes, SVG is an interesting case. If the SVG is produced for display it is simplified and normalised, making it a extremely poor data source for re-import into a new database. (same as per images) If however on the other hand if someone created an SVG file specially for the purpose of extracted OSM data and tags, it would be extremely difficult for them to argue that is a produced work and not a database. There is a simple guideline on the wiki: (from 2009) http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Open_Data_License/Produced_Work_-_Guideline In other words CC-by-SA protects data better than ODBL. No. See above. / Grant ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] rationalising administrative boundaries
On 15 June 2011 06:15, John Smith deltafoxtrot...@gmail.com wrote: On 15 June 2011 12:16, Gary Gallagher g.null.dev...@gmail.com wrote: I've been working on my suburb (Brunswick East), and keep coming across tangled messes of ways caused by the boundary data effectively floating above different ways. Roads are being connected to the boundary instead of the the road. The road or other way has been moved to create a clear path for the boundary and vice-a-versa. I presume the overlapping sections of the boundary could be merged with the underlying way. Has anybody had any experience doing this and what are the potential pitfalls? The current boundaries will be removed in the near future, so if I were you I wouldn't spend to much time fussing over them. Not true. / Grant ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] ODBL and real life...
On 19 June 2011 16:00, John Smith deltafoxtrot...@gmail.com wrote: On 20 June 2011 00:55, Grant Slater openstreet...@firefishy.com wrote: If however on the other hand if someone created an SVG file specially for the purpose of extracted OSM data and tags, it would be extremely difficult for them to argue that is a produced work and not a database. That's assuming a single party acting on bad faith, 2 independent parties operating independently would be able to claim otherwise. There is a simple guideline on the wiki: (from 2009) http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Open_Data_License/Produced_Work_-_Guideline In other words CC-by-SA protects data better than ODBL. No. See above. You are assuming that a single party or both parties involved are operating under bad faith, in all likelihood there could be a range of places to source data from, even OSM.org for that matter, with a secondary party operating in the US. I am sure theortical (and legally risky) loopholes could be found for example as you describe above. We could have contructed painfully restrictive terms to be placed on the produced works, but is there really a realistic threat? End of the day we are an open project who distribute open data under extremely liberal terms. The barrier to successfully reverse engineering produced works is high, while downloading ALL our data from http://planet.osm.org is extremely low. We have people subverting our CC-BY-SA license right now!!1! *zomg* And they wouldn't be abusing our ODbL license in future. Case: UN: http://www.unitar.org/unosat-releases-new-maps-over-haiti / Grant ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] ODBL and real life...
On 19 June 2011 22:20, Elizabeth Dodd ed...@billiau.net wrote: On Sun, 19 Jun 2011 18:12:25 +0100 Grant Slater openstreet...@firefishy.com wrote: We have people subverting our CC-BY-SA license right now!!1! *zomg* And they wouldn't be abusing our ODbL license in future. Case: UN: http://www.unitar.org/unosat-releases-new-maps-over-haiti I viewed these maps and understand why you have made the claim that the licence has been subverted, with no attribution given, assuming that the finding of the displaced person camps and damaged bridges etc was OSM volunteer work. I should have been clearer. OSM is attributed on the right hand side of the map, but they (UN) are violating the letter of our CC-BY-SA license. There would be no violation under ODbL. I've not seen this example mentioned in the LWG or Board minutes, so I don't know when you contacted UNITAR / UNOSAT to have this clarified. I cannot however, follow your logic that it won't happen with a differently licensed map. Do you care that they are not sticking to the letter of our existing license? I certainly don't care, but I would prefer see them not in theoretical violation... I am an advocate of the ODbL because it makes our lives easier and makes it easier for people to use our map data without getting tangled up in licensing. Now returning to thread... Sure we could make 'produced works' more restrictive, but the negative consequences would out way the benefit. The Open Knowledge Foundation / Open Data Commons (organisation which created ODbL license) and LWG's legal council think there is sufficient protection already without the need of adding a restrictive 'no reverse engineering' clause requirement on the produced works*, which I think John Smith is advocating for. This has all been discussed to death during the drafting phase of the ODbL license back in 2008/2009. *: Correct me if I am wrong, but the GPL also doesn't have a restrictive 'no reverse engineering' clause. / Grant ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Wiki censorship
On 18 May 2011 06:32, John Smith deltafoxtrot...@gmail.com wrote: On 18 May 2011 06:38, Elizabeth Dodd ed...@billiau.net wrote: Set of rules made by one group, complaints handled by same group, prosecution handled by same group, judgement made by same group, punishment handled by same group. Grant has absolutely no respect for user wishes, he's defaced my own wiki page, which I can no longer edit, after I left a note asking people not to edit my wiki page. What bollocks. I added a notice to the *discussion page* with evidence why the decision for the 3 day block was taken. It is no fun dealing with someone so caustic. Discussion page is here: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/User_talk:JohnSmith You have repeatedly removed complains people have posted to the discussion for your actions on the wiki. Your actions removing complaints: amenity=fire_hydrant by User:Mnalis: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk%3AJohnSmithaction=historysubmitdiff=512995oldid=512994 changes to Template:ValueDescription and Template:KeyDescription by User:Ck3d: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk%3AJohnSmithaction=historysubmitdiff=515390oldid=515383 Removing template:no proposal by User:Skipper: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk%3AJohnSmithaction=historysubmitdiff=518365oldid=518362 Request to retain messages on the discussion page. Me: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk%3AJohnSmithaction=historysubmitdiff=518930oldid=518924 Again requesting to retain discussion. Me: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk%3AJohnSmithaction=historysubmitdiff=557940oldid=557736 Complaint about you removing other peoples replies on other pages. User:!i!: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk%3AJohnSmithaction=historysubmitdiff=558255oldid=558250 Request to play more friendly with other after Tag:historic=event your edit/revert war. Me: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk%3AJohnSmithaction=historysubmitdiff=636241oldid=636233 Further details: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/User_talk:JohnSmith#Justification_for_Wiki_Edit_Block Regards Grant ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Wiki censorship
On 18 May 2011 14:02, John Smith deltafoxtrot...@gmail.com wrote: On 18 May 2011 22:56, Grant Slater openstreet...@firefishy.com wrote: Grant has absolutely no respect for user wishes, he's defaced my own wiki page, which I can no longer edit, after I left a note asking people not to edit my wiki page. What bollocks. I added a notice to the *discussion page* with evidence Yes and since it usually takes 2 to tango, so what actions were taken against others? Please supply evidence. I have listed the people who have been complaining about you and you removing their complains from the discussion page. Regards Grant ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Wiki censorship
On 17 May 2011 11:54, John Smith deltafoxtrot...@gmail.com wrote: It seems if you are on the wining side of an argument you end up blocked, so I'm most likely going to start an aussie wiki and not care about the official wiki As suggested by the #osm irc channel, I think you have misspelt 'whining'. ;-) Quick review of the violations of wikiquette which caused the wiki admins to feel it necessary to give User:JohnSmith a 3 day wiki edit block: “censoring” criticism: http://wiki.osm.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:JohnSmithdiff=prevoldid=636241 http://wiki.osm.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk%3AJohnSmithaction=historysubmitdiff=512995oldid=512994 http://wiki.osm.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk%3AJohnSmithaction=historysubmitdiff=514649oldid=514556 http://wiki.osm.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk%3AJohnSmithaction=historysubmitdiff=515390oldid=515383 http://wiki.osm.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk%3AJohnSmithaction=historysubmitdiff=518365oldid=518362 Removing others’ comments/replies: http://wiki.osm.org/w/index.php?title=Tag:historic%3Deventdiff=prevoldid=634976 http://wiki.osm.org/w/index.php?title=Tag:historic%3Deventdiff=prevoldid=634558 http://wiki.osm.org/w/index.php?title=Tag:historic%3Deventcurid=75255diff=631969oldid=631935 http://wiki.osm.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:JohnSmithdiff=prevoldid=558255 For the love of reverting other’s contributions: http://wiki.osm.org/wiki/Special:Contributions/JohnSmith Edit warring... http://wiki.osm.org/wiki/User_talk:Harry_Wood#User:JohnSmith http://wiki.osm.org/wiki/User_talk:Matt#Fire_Hydrants This 3 day wiki edit block is meant as a cooling off period and I hope you will take this time to reflect on how your edits affect other users of the wiki. Regards Grant ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Reassurance and Licensing
On 27 April 2011 05:42, Alex (Maxious) Sadleir maxi...@gmail.com wrote: On Wed, Apr 27, 2011 at 8:01 AM, Grant Slater openstreet...@firefishy.com wrote: Wait, why did the Australian government stop using CC-by-SA and move to CC-by? I actually wasn't aware of this, maybe because CC-by-SA adds needless restrictions and ambiguity on using the data? Basically yes - having to choose between the different variants was causing alot of confusion to individual authors; see recommendations 6.3-6.7 @ http://www.finance.gov.au/publications/gov20taskforcereport/chapter5.htm The AU government also provides the data under other specific terms on request. Mike of LWG has made a formal request. Notes in today's LWG meeting minutes. I can't see them on http://www.osmfoundation.org/wiki/Working_Group_Minutes yet The draft minutes are out: -- Section 8... * Imported Dataset Licensing ** Australia Gov allows specific licensing. In mid December 2010 Mike wrote a formal letter to the following address but has not received a reply. He will follow up. Commonwealth Copyright Administration, Attorney General’s Department, National Circuit, Barton ACT 2600 AUSTRALIA -- Questions / comment likely best addressed to Mike on this item. / Grant ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Tragedy of the commons...
On 25 April 2011 09:41, Mike Dupont jamesmikedup...@googlemail.com wrote: On Sun, Apr 24, 2011 at 2:18 PM, Alex (Maxious) Sadleir maxi...@gmail.com wrote: fosm.org looks pretty good with potlatch2. Just need a tile server or to setup my own again - how does one get a big fat planet.osm? I think you can use toolserver from wikipedia or even the hypercube.telascience.org for hosting and rendering tiles, wikipedia should even prefer creative commons data over incomprensible new licensed data. FOSM.org is hosted on a virtual machine of hypercube provided for XAPI. Without any explanation I was banned from the FOSM when I stated this. Regards Grant OSM Sysadmin team. ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
[talk-au] Reassurance and Licensing
Hi Talk-au, I am a volunteer member (like all the members) of the Licensing Working Group (LWG), OSM Sysadmin Team along with a few other OpenStreetMap groups. The LWG is well aware of the NearMap licensing issue and we are trying to get it resolved as soon as we can but we are an all volunteer team with day jobs. The Contributor Terms v1.2.4 reduces the project's freedoms in an attempt to appease NearMap. NearMap Pty Ltd is a company owned by Ipernica. NearMap is an awesome company for allowing us to use their aerial imagery. Unfortunately there are some very vocal (anonymous) members of the Australian community who seem intent on creating a virtual Us vs Them conflict in the community with exaggerated claims and mistruths. We are one project and on the same team. I believe we all value the amazing project we have collaboratively built. The licensing debate has unfortunately been going on for many years now. For a laugh, listen to the licensing debate from the OpenStreetMap State of the Map 2007 conference: http://www.archive.org/details/Sotm07PanelDebate-LicensingOsmData The Open Database License (ODbL) was created by the Open Data Commons with OpenStreetMap specifically in mind. The License is specifically created to address the peculiarities of globally licensing a libré (open) and gratis (free of cost) database. The license is modelled as closely as practical to the GPL / LGPL software license. The ODbL summary: http://www.opendatacommons.org/licenses/odbl/summary/ , the license introduces some new initially confusing terms like Produced Work. (Creative Commons created terms like Share-Alike). The independent New York Law School paper Facilitating Collaboration On Geospatial Data Using Social and Legal Norms explains the rational for the license change much better than I could hope to. http://www.nyls.edu/user_files/1/3/4/30/58/1134/DatabaseLicensing_110207.pdf The much-maligned OpenStreetMap Foundation (OSM-F, OSMF) is a not-for-profit company registered in England Wales as a legal entity to represent the project. The OSMF is not some nefarious entity out to steal all our precious geodata ZOMG. Humbly, Grant Slater aka Firefishy Not a pommy. ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Reassurance and Licensing
On 26 April 2011 22:06, Elizabeth Dodd ed...@billiau.net wrote: Bluntly, CC-by-SA for geodata is fine here. It's good enough for our government, it's good enough for us. (Au government now is using CC-by for data). We believe in Share-Alike. Actually, we have been brought up to believe in share alike and helping each other, and that might be part of the reason you reach a brick wall on the change to a complex legal licence. Wait, why did the Australian government stop using CC-by-SA and move to CC-by? I actually wasn't aware of this, maybe because CC-by-SA adds needless restrictions and ambiguity on using the data? The AU government also provides the data under other specific terms on request. Mike of LWG has made a formal request. Notes in today's LWG meeting minutes. I believe in Share-Alike too, I have invested 1000s of hours mapping South Africa.* Thankfully ODbL is a Attribution and Share-Alike license, with usage ambiguity removed. *sarcasm* But it all doesn't matter anyway, John Smith has degreed that all Australian geodata is PD anyway. See: http://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk-au/2011-April/007829.html *: I am proud to be number 2 in the contribution index for South Africa: http://stat.latlon.org/za/latest/users.html Regards Grant ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Reverting a bad edit?
On 21 April 2011 05:05, 4x4falcon i...@4x4falcon.com wrote: Completed. Please check the area as I don't know what should be there. This isn't the only large scale delete by new user within minutes of signing up. Recent example in the UK: http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/changeset/7907122 Best we keep a look out :) / Grant ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Nearmap
On 7 April 2011 06:58, Ian Sergeant inas66+...@gmail.com wrote: On 7 April 2011 12:57, David Murn da...@incanberra.com.au wrote: If the Australian issue is so important, as others have suggested why isnt OSMF seeking to make a rapid agreement with NearMap as was done with Bing? This really needs to be done. Is wonder if this is just due to a shortage of time that the LWG hasn't included this as yet? Absolutely and it is a important to LWG too. We have had discussions with NearMap in the past. Last discussion with NearMap was passing the revised Contributor Terms 1.2.4 to NearMap for their legal review, we are currently waiting on them. Regards Grant LWG Member. ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Wiki + Data Sources + Licensing Categories
On 7 April 2011 13:12, Ashley Kyd a...@kyd.com.au wrote: Hi all, Just trying to do a bit of research to catch up on the issues but found the wiki a bit unhelpful. I've started categorising data sources by license. If you have a spare moment or two and know of any I've missed, please pop by and see if you can tag a few more. This list by Mike may help: http://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/legal-talk/2010-August/004136.html Regards Grant ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Fwd: [OSM-dev] To OSM editor authors ...
On 7 April 2011 12:07, Elizabeth Dodd ed...@billiau.net wrote: I don't see a lolcat on that page, was it on another page? Certainly the lolcat on the front page of the osm wiki makes me wonder about the IQ of the page writers I removed the lolcat from the decline page + translations... It was the wrong lolcat, we need a sad cat/kitten. The funnier looking the better. Regards Grant ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Wiki + Data Sources + Licensing Categories
On 7 April 2011 13:51, David Murn da...@incanberra.com.au wrote: On Thu, 2011-04-07 at 22:12 +1000, Ashley Kyd wrote: Hi all, Just trying to do a bit of research to catch up on the issues but found the wiki a bit unhelpful. I've started categorising data sources by license. If you have a spare moment or two and know of any I've missed, please pop by and see if you can tag a few more. Particularly, are there any other Australian data sources other than Nearmap that are CC BY-SA? Im pretty sure everything from data.gov.au and ABS is CC-BY-SA. Fairly sure most of the imports (such as BP and shell) were done from CC-BY-SA datasets too, although John Smith would be able to confirm/deny that. I contacted the nowwhere.com.au/MapData-Sciences who are managers of the BP and Shell data in October 2010... Their reply: It is the property of BP and is intended as a service for personal use only. (and Shell for the Shell data I assume) I haven't yet had any luck contacting BP/Shell. MapData Sciences were not helpful in providing a contact. Regards Grant ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Fwd: [OSM-dev] To OSM editor authors ...
On 6 April 2011 10:51, Elizabeth Dodd ed...@billiau.net wrote: On Wed, 6 Apr 2011 19:31:53 +1000 John Smith deltafoxtrot...@gmail.com didn't write: (Michael Collinson did) For clarity: - This will only affect (77,000) contributors who registered before May 2010 and who have not accepted the new terms as part of the voluntary re-licensing program. those who see a big hole in the numbers total contributors at May 2010 ~250,000 Those who have signed up ~9,000 Those who have not signed up ~77,000 the gap I guess refers to accounts which have been completely idle and will be prevented from editing (source, LWG minutes 5th April 2011) Yes, those that have been completely idle. They signed up prior to May 2010 and have not made any edits. They are not prevented from editing, but they will be presented with the new CTs when they login to edit. I still have trouble understanding how 9,000 of 86,000 is a large majority. Those who signed up after May 2010 got no option, so they can't be construed as supporting either side. There are around 12,000 accounts which have prior to May 2010 contributed 95%+ of all the data. Regards Grant ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Fwd: [OSM-dev] To OSM editor authors ...
On 7 April 2011 00:37, David Murn da...@incanberra.com.au wrote: On Wed, 2011-04-06 at 22:09 +1000, Michael Hampson wrote: So is Phase 4 the end for those that don't agree? What happens to the data if we don't agree? and the data built on top of that data? Well, it depends what you read. According to the wiki, stage 4 is when OSM asks the community what will should happen for those who havent accepted the licence. One has to wonder if any of the comments from the past year or two will be taken into account when those in power decide to ask us mere mushrooms what we think. For clarity: - This will only affect (77,000) contributors who registered before May 2010 and who have not accepted the new terms as part of the voluntary re-licensing program. For clarity: (according to odbl.de) In Australia: - This will remove 57% of users - This will remove 67% of nodes, 66% of ways and 86% of relations In UK: - This will remove 65% of users - This will remove 40% of nodes, 40% of ways and 10% of relations In Europe: - This will remove 61% of users - This will remove 20% of nodes, 20% of ways and 15% of relations For pete's sake! Stop making up blatantly untrue stuff. Those are likely the precentages if we moved *today* without even formally contacting/emailing anyone. It is fairly clear that the Australian issue has very little value to those in Europe in control of the project at the moment. The fact that the number of users lost is in the same ballpark while the amount of data lost is significantly higher in our part of the world, seems to show the regions and the users whos interests they are looking out for. Please stop making grossly untrue statements. - Once a contributor has Accepted/Declined the new terms, they may continue editting normally. Even if they decline, they may continue editting normally until and if Phase 4 kicks in. Maybe I missed the announcement, but is there now an option to record that you decline the licence? Read the original mail that Mike posted to the DEV mailinglist... it is about planning the changes to the editor software before main announcements. Regards Grant ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Splitting ways with ABS data, and the new OSM terms
On 12 March 2011 12:10, Mark Pulley mrpul...@lizzy.com.au wrote: As no-one has answered this question yet, I thought I'd better re-ask the question, as it will determine whether I can agree to the new terms or not. On 23/02/2011, at 4:27 PM, Mark Pulley wrote: Quoting Andrew Laughton laughton.and...@gmail.com: Anybody who has used nearmap or Government data sources for their mapping therefore cannot agree to the new terms, and all of their data is going to be removed on 1st April 2011. Presumably most of the current ABS data will disappear automatically (as a special user account was set up for the original uploading) but what happens if any of these ways are split? For example, if I split a way because part of the way follows a river, the new way will be counted as being created by myself, so if I agree to the terms, would I then need to delete them separately? (or go through all my edits to allow only some of them to be accepted?) Or am I prevented from agreeing to the new terms because I have split ABS ways? Sorry, I have not been following closely... Seems the ABS data is CC-BY 2.5 licensed. Mike of Licensing Working Group been doing some leg work with regard to the licensing of AU Gov imported data. Worth noting ODbL is an attribution license and there has been progress on firming our attribution of sources eg: http://www.openstreetmap.org/copyright I'll ask Mike for a progress update. 1) No data is being removed 1st April 2011. If a dataset cannot be re-licensed after all avenues and communication have been exhausted it would be 'removed' likely the earliest near the end of the year. 2) Split ways retains the underlying nodes. If the nodes were not available the new split way would not be retained. Data is rolled-upward. Additional in-depth work is still required here once the scope is better understood. Jim Brown was working on some of this see: http://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/dev/2010-August/020124.html 3) No, you are not prevented unless your account was used for the import itself. Regards Grant ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Relicensing per changeset?
On 16 February 2011 07:07, David Murn da...@incanberra.com.au wrote: On Wed, 2011-02-16 at 00:04 +, David Groom wrote: I just want to draw attention to the survey at http://www.surveymonkey.com/s/WFVK6XS , the link was mentionedn Richard Weait's email to this list on 1 Feb, but I have to admit that I missed it the first time I read his posting Out of interest, who runs this survey and who is (or when will we be) allowed to know the results? The survey is an informal survey setup by Richard Weait of the Licensing Working Group (LWG) to gauge interest and get a feel for how many people would potentially use such a feature before significant time is invested in development. The survey link + intro details were posted in @talk-au and @talk around 2 weeks ago [1]. @talk-gb was incorrectly left off but will be corrected shortly [2]. I believe 5 people have responded. Richard has figures. LWG has discussed alternative potential options for the the flagging of changesets eg email. 1: http://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk-au/2011-February/007642.html 2: Done. http://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk-gb/2011-February/010922.html Regards Grant ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] JOSM filtering image/map tile URLs
On 30 January 2011 00:21, David Murn da...@incanberra.com.au wrote: So, what happens now? Has Frederik appointed himself as top-dog in the JOSM project, above and beyond the maintainer? Frederik was the JOSM project maintainer for a number of years before he handed off to Dirk and others. He is also part of a small team which has commit access to the live JOSM source tree. Frederik is also a member of the Data Working Group, along with myself, who have to deal with the consequences of people recklessly tracing in from inappropriate sources. Although a little different, see a recent case here: http://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk-ec/2011-January/55.html Regards Grant ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Looks like Nearmap is gone from JOSM slippymap plugin
On 26 November 2010 10:32, Mike Dupont jamesmikedup...@googlemail.com wrote: That is funny, I hope we don't get into a forking of josm as well. OMG. The osm trac is taking forever to load, how lame. Luckily we are using github, which has real performance : https://github.com/openstreetmap/josm-plugins/commit/7402a2349583a250db930b8ac41b5ffa9885acc0#commitcomment-203309 It was removed by Firefishy aka gslater, grant-webs...@firefishy.com I cced him on this mail so he can answer you directly. The real code was remove in a previous commit. https://github.com/openstreetmap/josm-plugins/commit/9610061c1c86f4fd55d10730ff4edc3831b5ac82 My commit removed an old NearMap reference so the code would compile. / Grant ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] MS imagery
On 25 November 2010 03:00, John Smith deltafoxtrot...@gmail.com wrote: On 25 November 2010 12:57, Steve Bennett stevag...@gmail.com wrote: landuse, and at a stretch, bike paths etc. I guess John Smith will be mapping out the boundaries of the coverage? Should be interesting. There is no news here until they actually allow it, so far they are claiming they can't. Interesting choice of words. http://www.bing.com/community/site_blogs/b/maps/archive/2010/11/23/bing-engages-open-maps-community.aspx As a first step in this engagement, we plan to enable access to Bing's global orthorectified aerial imagery, as a backdrop of OSM editors Or Steve's blog: http://blog.stevecoast.com/im-working-at-microsoft-and-were-donating-ima ... Microsoft is donating access to it's global orthorectified aerial imagery to help OpenStreetMappers make the map even better than it already is. Today and tomorrow are public holidays in the USA. Regards Grant ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Fwd: license change map
On 22 November 2010 20:02, Elizabeth Dodd ed...@billiau.net wrote: I find this quite offensive. Because I have discussed things and asked questions, while indicating that I do not agree, I have been treated extremely rudely on other OSM mailing lists, in particular by persons in 'high places'. I have been labelled a 'troll' which I am not, and been the subject of personal abuse by SteveC. All that has happened is polarisation of the debate, and I firmly suggest that if you read talk-au you never post again. Elizabeth, I tried to start a discussion with you offlist a few months ago, instead you decided to belittle me about my age. (I haven't had that since I was in my twenties so maybe I am just being overly sensitive.) Since you have stated: I will continue to be somewhat disruptive on the lists and remain polite while doing so. Lets leave the past and restart... Could you kindly restate your questions and I will attempt to answer them to the best of my ability. Regards Grant ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] license change map
On 22 November 2010 20:13, Ben Kelley ben.kel...@gmail.com wrote: If we get an agreeable licence for the main sources of non-survey data (I'm including at least Nearmap and the Bureau of Statistics data in that - what about Yahoo?) then this becomes a little more manageable. Easiest first. Yahoo aerial imagery is not a problem, data you trace is your own new work and can be licensed as you wish. Mike (of LWG) is working though the AU listed imports on/via http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Import/Catalogue , of the imports listed 9 are CC-BY and on further ongoing discussion it seems the attribution may only need to be maintained on the metadata. Only 1 item is CC-BY-SA which is NearMap who have rights over the (contributed) traced data, LWG intend to have further discussion when the revisions to the Contributor Terms have settled down. The BP petrol station data (via MapData Sciences) seems to be licensed only for private use; making it questional if it should have been imported in the first place; follow-up discussion with them is needed. When so much data is derived this starts to get a lot more difficult. While mapping the streets of Tamworth (NSW) was pretty much totally survey work, there are still helpful things like Bureau of Statistics data marking creeks and rivers. (e.g. Peel river) Is my data totally not derived in this case? For walks I surveyed in Scotland, I did also look at the OS map for that area, so arguably that data is also partly derived. Could this change be kept, or would it need to be deleted? Using an OS map (tomtom GPS/satnav etc) to get you around is considered to be fine as long as you are sourcing your own data from being on the ground. Regards Grant ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] NearMap
On 15 September 2010 23:46, John Smith deltafoxtrot...@gmail.com wrote: On 16 September 2010 08:38, Richard Weait rich...@weait.com wrote: Sure. Aren't there AU gov't sources that would be nice to have permission to use? You keep seeming trying to divert attention from the major issue, the CTs won't allow anything other than PD data, almost no AU govt will accept anything less than guaranteed attribution, the 2 goals are completely in conflict. Point 4 of the Contributor Terms provides a guaranteed mechanism for Attribution. http://www.osmfoundation.org/wiki/License/Contributor_Terms Regards Grant ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] NearMap
On 15 September 2010 14:28, Michael Hampson mc.hamp...@gmail.com wrote: Does anyone know if we have lost the use of NearMap as a background or is there an issue with Potlatch 1.4? Nearmap withdrew their support for the people using the new contributor terms. The OpenStreetMap foundation is currently working to resolve the issue with Nearmap. Such a discussion happened yesterday evening with Ben last Just to clarify, we have not concluded discussions with NearMap and discussion is still positive. The removal of the NearMap option in Potlatch was prompted a few weeks by back, but was only actioned today. Regards Grant ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] NearMap
On 15 September 2010 15:14, Simon Biber simonbi...@yahoo.com.au wrote: Who was it prompted by? Did NearMap themselves request it? There was a specific question from a AU community member to NearMap if the option should be removed. They said yes. -- Third hand, I was not part of the discussion. I don't see why should NearMap be blocked for users who have not accepted the new contributor terms. My understanding of NearMap's point of view is they have some rights over the contributions made by OpenStreetMap'pers who use their imagery. I also understand they have no issues with the new license just the Contributor Terms. It is an awkward position. NearMap is also a user of OpenStreetMap data. Discussing of options and solutions with NearMap continues. / Grant ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
[talk-au] Update from Licensing Working Group
OSM AU, Just a quick update... The Licensing Working Group (LWG) is still in positive discussion with NearMap. Unfortunately we have been unable to schedule a conference call this week due to difficult scheduling (EDT, BST, CEST WST timezones). We have a call scheduled for early next week. The Australian community have raised a number of issues with the license Contributor Terms, including particular concern about the licensing of existing Australian data imports. The LWG will be putting in further work on the Contributor Terms over the next few weeks. We shall also be working with the legal council to address the issues and get legal clarification where needed. Kind regards Grant Part of LWG Team. ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Deletion of Australian data
On 12 August 2010 12:28, Nick Hocking nick.hock...@gmail.com wrote: It seems as though if someone ran a bot to add just one tag to most of the streets in (say) Canberra and then failed to agree to a re-licence, then all those streets in Canberra would be thrown away in their entirety (or hidden from publication). Have I got this right or am I worrying too much? Thankfully worrying too much. We have the full history of all changes, his edits would not be carried across (unwound) but the existing data if approved for ODbL would be carried across. There is also a plan of action if people are found to be making these sorts of abusive edits. There is a full document coming out in a few days (initially) on the dev list detailing this. Regards Grant ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Deletion of Australian data
On 12 August 2010 13:05, Nick Hocking nick.hock...@gmail.com wrote: Ok - just to clarify. If I've edited a road then the bot does it's thing and then I make further improvements, the bots effect can be automatically removed without losing either of my edits. I don't know the details yet, but the document does cover this scenario. Ah, actually discussion has been started here: [OSM-dev] Measuring the current state of play wrt new contributor terms http://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/dev/2010-August/020124.html Regards Grant ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] ODBL yet again, but from a pragmatic approach...
On 10 August 2010 11:26, John Smith deltafoxtrot...@gmail.com wrote: Grant pasted this from LWG minutes on IRC earlier today: It wasn't well received. It would be overly restrictive for the project. Who knows what we'll be doing in 10 years time? Misquoted. That is not for the LWG minutes. That is my person comment missing all context. Minutes are here: http://www.osmfoundation.org/wiki/Working_Group_Minutes#License_Working_Group Regards Grant ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Revert 5439540?
On 9 August 2010 15:51, Markus marku...@bigpond.com wrote: You are right, That account was also only created 13 hours ago. I just downloaded the changeset in JOSM and I will revert it shortly. Not sure what to do with the user though. Assume it was an innocent mistake, offer help. If it continues and it is justified report it to the Data Working Group who can block him or post a message on his account which he is required to confirm before he can continue editing. More info here: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Vandalism Regards Grant ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Dislike the new wiki skin?
On 9 August 2010 23:01, John Smith deltafoxtrot...@gmail.com wrote: On 10 August 2010 07:54, 16 towal...@gmail.com wrote: Just being evil-minded and petty; I wonder if this hint should be added (discretely) to, say, the Australian Tagging Guidelines. Might as well keep up the image of them ignorant Southern Hemisphere hicks wot doesn't like to toe the line? I need to get a shirt printed with that on it! I'm the evil bastard who upgraded the wiki + changed the default skin. I'm a proud new South African. (*insert rugby comment here*) There was a problem until today with the wiki edit page, it should now be fixed. I removed the wiki 'license change' banner when I upgrade the install of MediaWiki, nothing sinister. I've just re-added the banner now. PS: Being from the Southern Hemisphere, when is someone going to make a correct side up OSM map? Regards Grant Part of the OSM sysadmin team. ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] ODBL yet again, but from a pragmatic approach...
On 21 July 2010 05:36, John Smith deltafoxtrot...@gmail.com wrote: I'm not sure how complete it is, but there is a list of data sets and the licenses: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Import/Catalog If there are any known entries missing, please add them. LWG has put out a request for this earlier, but it may not have reached talk-au shores. Regards Grant ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] ODBL yet again, but from a pragmatic approach...
On 23 July 2010 00:08, 80n 80n...@gmail.com wrote: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Import/Catalog *snip* Grant What's the lower limit for inclusion on this list? It says rather vaguely more than a few hundred nodes. 80n Those that imported the data, they make the decision. We have to ask everyone anyway, so it does not matter how many are on the list. / Grant ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] ODBL yet again, but from a pragmatic approach...
On 18 July 2010 12:53, John Smith deltafoxtrot...@gmail.com wrote: It just got pointed out to me, but anyone that has ever derived data from Nearmap can't agree to the new Contributor Terms, not to mention new users that already agreed to the new CTs shouldn't be deriving data from Nearmap. Why? Are their new created work somehow inferiour to other created works? / Grant ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] ESRI online tool has OSM basemap
On 26 May 2010 12:05, Chris Barham cbar...@pobox.com wrote: This seems interesting, ESRI have launched ArcGIS.com http://www.arcgis.com/home/ which has an online mapping toolset (Microsoft Silverlight plugin required) that allows you to use OpenStreetMap basemaps - I thought this was interesting as it is from a company that until the OSM Haiti remote mapping success hit the news, was perceived (by me), to have refused to acknowledge OpenStreetMap even existed :-) Cool - I do wonder if they are serving the tiles, or useing OSM bandwidth They are using OSM bandwidth via tile.openstreetmap.org / Grant Part of OSM Sysadmin team. ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Duplicate node finder
But zoom levels six and lower are still showing marks that have been removed for at least a day. They must be updated at some lower frequency, which is understandable - I'm guessing there is some clumping of many marks into one, or it would take forever to display at these zooms. The lower zooms have now been updated. z 0 - 6 are filesystem cached and currently require a manual purge. / Grant ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Database licence
2009/12/5 80n 80n...@gmail.com: The OSM Foundation can't force anyone to relicense their existing data For clarity... the OSM Foundation is not some evil group... The OSMF is open, anyone from the community can join. The OSMF Board is democratically elected from the OSMF membership. OSMF Board: http://www.osmfoundation.org/wiki/Officers_%26_Board Disclosure: I am an OSMF member, part of the sysadmin team and a Licensing Working Group member. (And failed being elected to the board 2 years ago.) snip ...the OSM Foundation owns the servers that run the site and if the change is approved then they will stop accepting contributions on that site unless you agree to the new terms (the OSMF Contributor Terms). This is likely to be disruptive. Unfortunately any licensing change would be disruptive. Some of the reasons why we which to move away from CC BY-SA: http://www.osmfoundation.org/wiki/License/Why_CC_BY-SA_is_Unsuitable / Grant ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Database licence
2009/12/5 Liz ed...@billiau.net: Sadly, I'd like to say that I will not be supporting the proposed new licence. It is designed around European law, and gives database protection which is not a legal concept which is likely to apply here, after the recent High Court case Nine vs IceTv, when the database was not afforded protection. The ODbL does not require European Database Directive protection. Section 2 of the license defines the 3 pillars used; Copyright, EU Database Directive and Contract Law. http://www.opendatacommons.org/licenses/odbl/1.0/ / Grant ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
[talk-au] NearMap article on Wikipedia
OSM Team AU, Lets show some love... New Wikipedia NearMap article... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NearMap Article needs some expanding. / Grant ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
