Re: [OSM-talk] FW: [EXTERNAL] Re: ODbl concerns

[James]

You can check out these compatible licenses

https://wiki.osmfoundation.org/wiki/Licence/Licence_Compatibility

You can use CC BY if you grant a waiver to OSM to be able to import/use the
data stating that it's okay that we attribute you here:
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Contributors
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Re: [OSM-talk] mapilio? (street-level imagery)

[James]

Mapillary(facebook)

KartaView(was OpenStreetCam aquired by a taxi company)

On Tue, May 30, 2023, 4:43 PM Andrew Hain 
wrote:

> Is there an imagery host that offers an OSM-friendly way to support
> mapping and is suitable for contributions using a smartphone or tablet?
>
> --
> Andrew
> --
> *From:* Greg Troxel 
> *Sent:* 24 May 2023 13:31
> *To:* talk@openstreetmap.org 
> *Subject:* [OSM-talk] mapilio? (street-level imagery)
>
> I just got spam from mapilio, implying that I was a "Mapilio
> contributor".  This was, to my memory, the first I had heard of them.
>
>
> I have avoided most street-level imagery schemes as not being
> structurally similar to OSM (open source tooling, community project and
> licensing scheme).
>
> Looking briefly, it seems like a corporate thing with proprietary
> tooling.  They talk about an app in proprietary app stores but do not
> mention F-Droid :-) The point seems to be to monetize crowdsourced
> contributions, in a gamified/rewards-ish sort of way.
>
> I don't find a JOSM plugin that makes the imagery available in the way
> that their web page implies it is licensed for OSM.
>
> Thus, my approach will be to not deal with them at all and just block
> their mail.
>
>
> I am curious if anyone
>   - thinks my assessment of the fundamentals is off
>   - thinks there is a reasonable way to use their imagery in JOSM
>   - anything else similar
>
>   - has also been spammed (private replies please and I'll post a
> followup if I get a bunch of comments)
>
> Greg
>
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Re: [talk-au] Brisbane City Bike Racks

[James via Talk-au]

I now see the public dataset is only 100 bike racks in the cbd. I plan on 
requesting other data later, as I see council owned maps showing more racks, 
but I can easily visit all of these on bike in a day, so I might start with the 
"" full "" dataset.

On 31 January 2023 7:10:53 pm AEST, Warin <61sundow...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>On 31/1/23 14:38, James via Talk-au wrote:
>> Hi All,
>> 
>> I'm relatively new at OSM and wanted to map the bike racks in Brisbane, of 
>> which I am a resident. A few members on the osm discord graciously pointed 
>> out the data is available at 
>> https://www.data.brisbane.qld.gov.au/data/dataset/bicycle-racks, is under CC 
>> BY 4.0, and there is a waiver to OSM 
>> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/File:BCC_OSM_Waiver_-_Signed_30Aug2018.pdf.
>>  I have read the import guidelines, and I'm prepared to spend a lot of time 
>> making sure there are no duplicates and making sure the locations match up 
>> with the map.
>> 
>> Does anyone have anything they'd like to add, any advice, or any reasons I 
>> shouldn't go ahead with this?
>> 
>> Thanks,
>> James
>> 
>
>Do, say, 10 local to you and see how it goes. Making a mistake with 10 is not 
>too much of a problem, making the same mistake with 10,000is much more of a 
>problem.
>
>
>Good luck.
>
>
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[talk-au] Brisbane City Bike Racks

[James via Talk-au]

Hi All,

I'm relatively new at OSM and wanted to map the bike racks in Brisbane, of 
which I am a resident. A few members on the osm discord graciously pointed out 
the data is available at  
https://www.data.brisbane.qld.gov.au/data/dataset/bicycle-racks, is under CC BY 
4.0, and there is a waiver to OSM 
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/File:BCC_OSM_Waiver_-_Signed_30Aug2018.pdf. 
I have read the import guidelines, and I'm prepared to spend a lot of time 
making sure there are no duplicates and making sure the locations match up with 
the map.

Does anyone have anything they'd like to add, any advice, or any reasons I 
shouldn't go ahead with this?

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Re: [OSM-talk] Rent-a-crowd needed JOSM Microsoft store

[James]

IANAL but GPL v2 does allow to charge for distribution. Is it ethical, lol
no, would lawyers care? Probably not

On Sun, Nov 27, 2022, 11:30 PM stevea  wrote:

> Yes, thanks much, James!  (For linking "Reporting Infringement to
> Microsoft").  I do wonder if simply forking and charging money for existing
> open-source software is an egregious slap in the face to OSM (JOSM
> developers, especially), although I'm not an attorney.  So, I'd urge our
> LWG / legal-beagles to take a look at this, please.
>
> On the other hand, if there is something "value-added" to the fork that
> justifies charging money, maybe it's OK.
>
> > On Nov 27, 2022, at 8:26 PM, James  wrote:
> >
> > https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/legal/intellectualproperty/infringement
> >
> > On Sun, Nov 27, 2022, 11:15 PM john whelan 
> wrote:
> > You can only leave a review if you download the software.
> >
> > Both are JOSM, one is a fork which costs money which goes to the person
> who created the fork the other is normal JOSM which is free.
> >
> > Cheerio John
> > 
>
>
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Re: [OSM-talk] Rent-a-crowd needed JOSM Microsoft store

[James]

https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/legal/intellectualproperty/infringement

On Sun, Nov 27, 2022, 11:15 PM john whelan  wrote:

> You can only leave a review if you download the software.
>
> Both are JOSM, one is a fork which costs money which goes to the person
> who created the fork the other is normal JOSM which is free.
>
> Cheerio John
>
> On Sun, Nov 27, 2022, 11:01 PM stevea,  wrote:
>
>> If choosing which version is "legitimate" (or preferred) is important,
>> and "leaving a review" is a (one) method for communicating that, I would
>> underscore that if you do leave a review, make very clear how one differs
>> from the other.
>>
>> On Nov 27, 2022, at 5:33 PM, john whelan  wrote:
>> >
>> > Agreed but some do and currently both have one review each so it isn't
>> that clear which is the official OpenStreetMap editor.
>> >
>> > Even a couple more reviews would help.
>> >
>> > Thanks
>> >
>> > Cheerio John
>> 
>
>
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Re: [OSM-talk] Rent-a-crowd needed JOSM Microsoft store

[James]

https://apps.microsoft.com/store/detail/openstreet-map-editor/9MVMVXFPM5SV


https://apps.microsoft.com/store/detail/josm/XPFCG1GV0WWGZX

On Sun, Nov 27, 2022, 11:01 PM stevea  wrote:

> If choosing which version is "legitimate" (or preferred) is important, and
> "leaving a review" is a (one) method for communicating that, I would
> underscore that if you do leave a review, make very clear how one differs
> from the other.
>
> On Nov 27, 2022, at 5:33 PM, john whelan  wrote:
> >
> > Agreed but some do and currently both have one review each so it isn't
> that clear which is the official OpenStreetMap editor.
> >
> > Even a couple more reviews would help.
> >
> > Thanks
> >
> > Cheerio John
> 
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Re: [OSM-talk] Rent-a-crowd needed JOSM Microsoft store

[James]

not everyone runs winblows

On Sun, Nov 27, 2022, 8:19 PM John Whelan  wrote:

> On a windows machine do a search for Microsoft store.  Then search for
> JOSM.  Download it then you can leave a review.  The more reviews it has
> the more it looks as if it is the legitimate version.
>
> The other version which is a fork of JOSM is called  OpenStreetMap editor
> and has a JOSM screen shot and costs $5.99 can.
>
> Thanks John
>
> Dave F wrote on 11/27/2022 7:15 PM:
>
> Link(s)?
>
> On 30/10/2022 18:47, john whelan wrote:
>
> There are two versions of JOSM available on the Microsoft store.  One is a
> fork and costs money the other is the kosher version.
>
> It might be helpful if JOSM had a few reviews to make it stand out from
> the other version.
>
> Thanks John
>
>
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Re: [talk-au] power=edge_server

[Michael James]

This dataset is not any sort of computing system, they have copied the ACMA 
mobile network tower information and called it research.

This is of course going to be a licensing issue.

https://www.acma.gov.au/radiocomms-licence-data

Michael


From: Nev 
Sent: Thursday, 3 November 2022 12:38 AM
To: Nev 
Cc: OSM-Au 
Subject: [talk-au] power=edge_server

As these tags are few in number and associated with research as mentioned on 
the github page I am happy to leave as is and move on.
The tag power=edge_server seems reasonable.


On 3 Nov 2022, at 12:24 am, Nev mailto:nevwo...@gmail.com>> 
wrote:

Found this on github which relates to one of the changesets I suppose…
https://github.com/swinedge/eua-dataset

On 2 Nov 2022, at 10:43 pm, Nev mailto:nevwo...@gmail.com>> 
wrote:
Hi
Does anyone know what the tag power=edge_server refers to?

https://www.openstreetmap.org/user/%E8%AE%BE%E8%AE%A1%E5%9C%A8%E5%85%88/history#map=14/-37.8138/144.9640

I initially thought they might be something to do with building power supply or 
electric vehicle chargers or a type of computer server in business premises.
Internet searches generally refer to computer servers and if that is what is 
being mapped, are these appropriate to map on osm?
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Re: [talk-au] Tagging "boundary" roads with addr:*

[Michael James]

There is some conceptual misunderstandings with how the spatial data is stored 
by Government and how it is different to the way we store it in OSM

Government data does not define a road as a line like we do rather it is the 
space between property allotments, that space is not always even and the road 
as used by cars often is much smaller then the total area.

Checking my area, when a suburb boundary follows a road it is in the centre of 
the gap between the properties that are either side of the road and that centre 
line is not always the paved road that you see on the ground.

Michael


From: Dian Ågesson 
Sent: Friday, 7 January 2022 9:29 PM
To: Andrew Hughes 
Cc: OSM Australian Talk List 
Subject: Re: [talk-au] Tagging "boundary" roads with addr:*


Hi Andrew,



There a few conceptual things I don't understand about how is_in would be 
implemented with regard to suburbs

I'm curious; if the border of a suburb is defined by a road; does the border 
change when the road is changed? If, for some reason, the boundary road was 
moved 10m north, does the suburbs grow/shrink accordingly? Is the suburb border 
an infinitely narrow line in the "centre" of the roadway, or does the road sit 
entirely within one suburb or another? What if a lanes are uneven?

If it is not bound to the roadway, and is instead "static" geometry, then you 
could have a situation where a road which is supposed to be the border is 
actually entirely misaligned with the legal border. Is_in doesn't cause these 
issues, but I think it may worsen individual situations by providing a 
misleading explanation about where a road actually is. I'd also be concerned 
about maintenance in growth areas where new suburbs are declared, etc.

Dian

On 2022-01-07 18:38, Andrew Hughes wrote:
Hi All,

Since I am only trying to define those that cannot be determined spatially, 
this sounds correct to me: https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:is_in

Explanation: Yes, they do say that the use is discouraged, but that is purely 
on the basis of boundaries being used as spatial relationships. I'm looking at 
exactly when that is not possible. I wouldn't want to tag something that 
clearly has a spatial relationship (topologically correct) with a boundary. 
Then, there's not discussion aroune what to do when this happens, only that 
others still advocate its use for such a scenario.

For the record, an example of why this is needed

We'll have a list of roads "Evergreen Terrace, Springfield" and we'll have some 
information about the road like "Cars from Shelbyville are not allowed". If we 
can't locate these road(s) in OSM because  the topology of the road/suburb is 
inaccurate - we can't map it. Thus, either the topology needs fixing (which I 
believe is impossible and I'm not going to bother talking about that) or the 
roads on the boundary can have a tag which is absolute and can be used 
preferentially (if desired).

Thoughts?

Cheers,
AH

On Thu, 6 Jan 2022 at 09:02, Graeme Fitzpatrick 
mailto:graemefi...@gmail.com>> wrote:


On Wed, 5 Jan 2022 at 20:03, Ewen Hill 
mailto:ewen.h...@gmail.com>> wrote:
Hi Graeme and happy new year,
   How much can you datamine from a suburb:left , suburb:right ? I would 
suggest suburb polygons and street names only which would cover all 
eventualities and allow for the change in the suburb area without having to 
touch each road affected

I agree entirely & wouldn't use it myself, but was suggesting a possible option!

I'd leave it as Sandgate Road by itself, but with 436 Sandgate Road, Clayfield 
Qld 4011, & 475 Sandgate Road, Albion Qld 4010, tagged on the individual 
buildings themselves, as they currently are.

Thanks

Graeme
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Re: [talk-au] Fwd: Use of Council data in OpenStreetMap

[Michael James]

As a local I can provide some more info

Toowoomba RC does not own all the data used in the online mapping system this 
is shown in the disclaimer when you open the maps.

Most of the data belongs to the State of Queensland (DERM) and as such the 
Council can’t provide the permission required.

Quoted ownership section :-

The map layers displayed in TRC's Online Mapping are compiled from a variety of 
sources. Many of the map layers in TRC's Online Mapping are based on digital 
cadastral data provided under licence to the Toowoomba Regional Council by the 
State of Queensland as represented by the Department of Environment and 
Resource Management. These digital cadastral data provided under licence are 
referred to as “licensed data”. The user of TRC's Online Mapping acknowledges 
and accepts that the State of Queensland is the owner of the intellectual 
property rights, including copyright in the licensed data. These conditions of 
use do not confer on the user of TRC's Online Mapping any rights of ownership 
in the licensed data. The user of TRC's Online Mapping acknowledges and accepts 
that Toowoomba Regional Council is the owner of the intellectual property 
rights, including copyright, in the information and data provided through TRC's 
Online Mapping, with the exception of licensed data. These conditions of use do 
not confer on the user of TRC's Online Mapping any rights of ownership in any 
data.

Michael


From: Graeme Fitzpatrick 
Sent: Thursday, 9 December 2021 11:47 AM
To: OSM-Au 
Subject: [talk-au] Fwd: Use of Council data in OpenStreetMap

After being up that way on holidays a few weeks ago, I found out that Toowoomba 
Region Council have online maps for addresses etc:
https://www.tr.qld.gov.au/payments-self-service-laws/web-apps/mapping/12731-online-mapping-2.

Contacted Council to see if we could get permission to use them & this is the 
result.

So, does
"Council doesn’t have an Open Data Policy at this time so we can’t issue an 
approval for you to use the data"
+
"You are welcome to use the data as a reference if you are manually drawing in 
information"
mean that we can use it, or we can't?

Or is it a 50/50 - we can't import the data, but we can use it manually?

Thanks

Graeme

-- Forwarded message -
From: Adam Purves mailto:adam.pur...@tr.qld.gov.au>>
Date: Thu, 9 Dec 2021 at 09:38
Subject: RE: Use of Council data in OpenStreetMap
To: Graeme Fitzpatrick mailto:graemefi...@gmail.com>>
Cc: Chris Fogarty 
mailto:chris.foga...@tr.qld.gov.au>>, Sandra 
Sherriff mailto:sandra.sherr...@tr.qld.gov.au>>

Hi Graeme,

Unfortunately, Council doesn’t have an Open Data Policy at this time so we 
can’t issue an approval for you to use the data (This is the mechanism by which 
Council would provide the requested approval).

You are welcome to use the data as a reference if you are manually drawing in 
information.

Kind regards,
Adam.

Adam Purves
Coordinator Geospatial Information Management (GIS)
Information Communication and Technology

Toowoomba Regional Council
PO Box 3021 Toowoomba QLD
P 07 4688 6681  E 6681  IM sip:adam.pur...@tr.qld.gov.au
adam.pur...@tr.qld.gov.au
www.tr.qld.gov.au

From: Graeme Fitzpatrick mailto:graemefi...@gmail.com>>
Sent: Wednesday, 8 December 2021 12:28 PM
To: Adam Purves mailto:adam.pur...@tr.qld.gov.au>>
Cc: Chris Fogarty 
mailto:chris.foga...@tr.qld.gov.au>>; Sandra 
Sherriff mailto:sandra.sherr...@tr.qld.gov.au>>
Subject: Re: Use of Council data in OpenStreetMap


[External Email] This email was sent from outside the organisation - be 
cautious, particularly with links and attachments.

Hi Adam

Thanks for your very quick response.

The CC licence, or lack of it, isn't a critical thing as long as we have your 
explicit permission to make use of your data.

As to how it would be used, personally, I would only be using it to make manual 
updates of such things as parks, addresses etc, but other people, who are more 
data savvy than I am!, may well look into importing data sets.

To see what sort of data has previously been made available to us from other 
sources, please have a look at 
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Australian_data_catalogue.

If you would like to know more, I can pass your questions on to someone whom I 
know is more heavily involved in data imports.

Thanks

Graeme


On Wed, 8 Dec 2021 at 10:13, Adam Purves 
mailto:adam.pur...@tr.qld.gov.au>> wrote:
Hi Graeme,

Thank you for your email.

At this time Toowoomba Regional Council doesn’t have a Creative Commons licence 
available for our GIS data.

Can I please clarify how you intend to use Council data in OSM? Are you 
intending to load the Council data directly into OSM, or are you using Council 
data as a reference and are manually drawing/updating OSM?

Kind regards,
Adam.

Adam Purves
Coordinator Geospatial Information Management (GIS)
Information Communication and Technology

Toowoomba Regional Council
PO 

Re: [talk-au] Trouble with routing through an intersection

[Michael James]

-Original Message-
From: Simon Slater  
Sent: Friday, 3 September 2021 10:00 AM
To: talk-au@openstreetmap.org
Subject: Re: [talk-au] Trouble with routing through an intersection

On Thursday, 2 September 2021 4:03:16 PM AEST Michael James wrote:
> It's possible your change just hasn't made it's way to the routing 
> engines yet.
> 
Tried again this morning in OSM and still the same.

> The only issue with the intersection is I would not have that single 
> segment between the highway and the 2 slip lanes, just connect the 
> slip lanes directly to the highway. This shouldn't stop a routing 
> engine finding a path.
Yes, I thought that short stretch seemed odd.  I'll delete that then and join 
each side of the traffic island directly to the Calder Hwy.

With this method, will I need to do anything to not disturb Route C274 which 
uses that segment?

If you grab the one-way sections that already have the tags and relations and 
extend them to the main highway it should be fine, it's when you add an extra 
bit and forget to add it to the relation that it might cause problems.

Michael

--
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Simon Slater

Registered Linux User #463789 @ http://linuxcounter.net

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Re: [talk-au] Trouble with routing through an intersection

[Michael James]

It's possible your change just hasn't made it's way to the routing engines yet.

The only issue with the intersection is I would not have that single segment 
between the highway and the 2 slip lanes, just connect the slip lanes directly 
to the highway.
This shouldn't stop a routing engine finding a path.

Michael


-Original Message-
From: Simon Slater  
Sent: Thursday, 2 September 2021 3:05 PM
To: talk-au@openstreetmap.org
Subject: [talk-au] Trouble with routing through an intersection

G'day all,
This morning I created a route from Serpentine to Castlemaine 
and at one intersection the route would backtrack.  Located a way at the 
intersection with one-way set incorrectly ( I travel through this intersection 
often) and made this change https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/110588330 
but now, a few hours later the routing is still wrong: 
https://www.openstreetmap.org/directions?
engine=fossgis_osrm_car=-36.59894%2C143.93811%3B-36.59984%2C143.93824
Can anyone see what is wrong at this intersection in the changeset?
--
Regards
Simon Slater

Registered Linux User #463789 @ http://linuxcounter.net

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Re: [Talk-GB] UK street addressing

[James Derrick]

Hi,

On 20/12/2020 15:50, Alan Mackie wrote:

I'm also unclear how to tag numbered houses in named terraces.
addr:housename doesn't seem appropriate if they are shared along an 
entire row and addr:street already has a value.


In NE England there are a number of 1850ish - 1900ish terraces where the 
terrace is named, rather than the surrounding highway.


This caused me a lot of confusion when starting out cycle surveying and 
mapping as what street signs there were, conflicted. :-)


A good indication of such a situation up here is a battered enamel tin 
plate (dark blue rusty) or cast iron (just rusty) name plate on the 
terrace - original, and probably installed when the highway was 
compacted earth!


I just add `name`="Fourth Row" to the `building=terrace` for simplicity, 
although duplicating with `addr:housename` also seems OK.


These days, I also use the JOSM terracer to break terraces into 
dwellings - survey, count the chimneys, or check the high-res Bing back 
garden fence imagery.



I've also run into this for blocks of flats. "Block B" doesn't seem 
like a housename either? The addr:block tags seems to be for named 
city blocks.


Do we have some sort of local grouping tag?


There's a few options mentioned in 
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:addr (which is probably the 
issue here - the lowest common denominator across cultures will always 
give confusion!).


I've used `addr:unit` for commercial premises (like 1A, 1B, 2, etc for 
shops) but `addr:block` seems to be for a very different use case (grid 
iron city blocks - Fifteenth and...).


The simple `name` or `addr:housename` tag kind of fits the hierarchy, so 
KISS?


Happy Mapping,


James
--
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li...@jamesderrick.org, Cramlington, England
I wouldn't be a volunteer if you paid me...
https://www.openstreetmap.org/user/James%20Derrick


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Re: [OSM-talk] Making GPS tracks in Android

[James]

OSMAnd

With GPS status (to force redownloading gps hints)

On Sun., Dec. 20, 2020, 7:41 a.m. Andy Mabbett, 
wrote:

> Father Christmas came early this year, and has delivered to me a smart
> new Android phone, whose GPS is much better than on my old one.
>
> I want to use it to trace some tracks on a local nature reserve. What
> app(s) do you recommend for this?
>
> --
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> @pigsonthewing
> http://pigsonthewing.org.uk
>
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Re: [OSM-talk] OSM and Google

[James]

are you using 8.8.8.8 or 4.4.4.4 as a dns? could explain it.

On Mon., Dec. 14, 2020, 1:58 p.m. Niels Elgaard Larsen, 
wrote:

> Google services was down for an hour today. I noticed that at the same
> time I could
> not push my edits with JOSM due to "internal server error"
>
> Was that a coincidence or do we somehow depend on Google?
>
>
>
> --
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Re: [OSM-talk] Call to Take Action and Confront Systemic Offensive Behavior in the OSM Community

[James]

> The lack of discussion by non-men is an undeniable fact.

>Right, this is true. Sadly true. Something I also know from Linux
Communities and other Open Source/Open Data Communities.

Same in programming and IT fields, firefighters, mechanics, carpenters,
construction workers, taxi drivers, etc etc...

Now is it a simple lack of interest in the field? Gate keeping?
Discrimination/Sexism? Is it because of tradition that is still lingering?

We should work with other humans and see why as well as question ourselves
what can we do/change?

We should treat other fellow humans, despite sex, race or country of
origin, as we would want to be treated.

Would you like to be put down based on your employer, despite your
knowledge? Probably not, then don't do it

Would you like to be put down based on your genitalia, despite being quite
knowledgeable? No? Then don't do it.

On Thu., Dec. 10, 2020, 6:38 a.m. tilmanreinecke--- via talk, <
talk@openstreetmap.org> wrote:

> > The lack of discussion by non-men is an undeniable fact.
>
> Right, this is true. Sadly true. Something I also know from Linux
> Communities and other Open Source/Open Data Communities.
>
> > The simplest explanation for this is the systematic institutional
> hostility towards women in the OSM community.
>
> I did not hear about something like that what can be called "systematic".
> Are you sure that we have something like that in OSM? If yes, then please
> point to where that happened. I am pretty sure that this is not something
> systematic. I know women not feeling this way as you because OpenStreetMap
> is an open and welcoming community.
>
> Greetings
>
> Sören
>
>
>  Original Message 
> Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] Call to Take Action and Confront Systemic
> Offensive Behavior in the OSM Community
> From: Clay Smalley
> To: Celine Jacquin
> CC: osmf-t...@openstreetmap.org,osm
>
>
> I'm noticing a pattern here in the replies to this email:
>
> Only men have replied. This is, unfortunately, par for the course on the
> OSM mailing lists. The lack of discussion by non-men is an undeniable fact.
> The simplest explanation for this is the systematic institutional hostility
> towards women in the OSM community. The replies themselves are the best
> evidence of this.
>
> These men replying have taken it upon themselves to explain to a woman
> what constitutes misogyny. News flash: you do not get to decide what
> offends other people. If you are a man, misogyny will never happen to you
> by definition. If you are a man, you have never been, are not, and will
> never be a victim of misogyny. This isn't your area of expertise. Listen to
> the experts.
>
> Some men replying have even mentioned how this draft letter hurts their
> feelings. These men need to slow down and consider for a moment that their
> temporarily hurt feelings are less important than the safety of women.
> Men's feelings are irrelevant to issues where women are victims.
>
> As far as I know, various OSM-affiliated groups have codes of conduct, but
> there isn't one governing these mailing lists. We need to adopt a code of
> conduct yesterday.
>
> -Clay (they/them)
>
> On Wed, Dec 9, 2020 at 2:13 PM Celine Jacquin  wrote:
>
>> Hello everybody
>> I hope you are all well
>>
>> We, several groups, chapters, organizations and individuals, have reacted
>> to the conversation in the osm-talk-list (
>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk/2020-December/085692.html)
>> considering that it is an incident symptomatic of the problem we have faced
>> for many years in the community, which is one of the greatest obstacles to
>> diversity at all levels of OSM. Time to make a real change.
>> That is why we have developed a beginning of statement on the desirable
>> mechanisms to work solidly on the rules of coexistence and improve
>> diversity.
>>
>> We bring it to your attention and invite anyone who feels represented to
>> sign it. Translations are in preparation (any help is welcome):
>>
>> https://docs.google.com/document/d/130JCTX9ve4H4ORXznmIVTpXiN3TX8nRGA8ayuTZ9ECI/edit?usp=sharing
>>
>>
>> On behalf of the signatories
>> Best regards
>>
>> Céline Jacquin
>> ___
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>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
>>
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Re: [Talk-GB] Recycling Points

[James Derrick]

Hi,

Here's a couple of local examples for reference and comment...


On 26/11/2020 11:16, Jez Nicholson wrote:


A Recycling Centre being the local 'tip', see 
https://www.aberdeencity.gov.uk/services/bins-and-recycling/find-your-nearest-recycling-centre 
<https://www.aberdeencity.gov.uk/services/bins-and-recycling/find-your-nearest-recycling-centre>


Called a 'Household Waste Recovery Centre' in Northumberland (although 
we still 'go to the tip'!):


https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/858629908

 * amenity=recycling
 * recycling_type=centre


A Recycling Point being a cluster of recycling containers in, say, at 
the end of your local supermarket car park. Often given a name by the 
Council, see 
https://www.aberdeencity.gov.uk/services/bins-and-recycling/recycling-points 
<https://www.aberdeencity.gov.uk/services/bins-and-recycling/recycling-points>


Local example for glass bottles (skip with holes, but as you say can be 
more specialised for clothes, shoes, etc.):


https://www.openstreetmap.org/node/6538028486

* amenity=recycling
* recycling_type=container


Happy Mapping,


James
--
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Re: [Talk-ca] mapping Ottawa light rail stations.

[James]

I don't think osmand handles elevators, there's a issue open on github to
support indoor mapping, but it's been flagged as a "nice to have"

On Tue., Nov. 24, 2020, 7:22 p.m. John Whelan, 
wrote:

> Today I wanted to use OSMAND+ to work out the by foot from Lyon station to
> 60 Cambridge street.  There are two entrances / exits to the station and I
> wanted to leave by a particular exit.  The most westerly one.
>
> The route suggested by OSMAND+ was at first glance bizarre but looking
> more closely seems to follow the underground foot ways from the  platform
> level which is fine except I was interested in using the elevators.  So how
> do I tell OSMAND+ I wish to go from a particular street level exit?
>
> The second question is should the exits be marked on the map in someway
> that OSMAND can find?
>
> Thanks John
> --
> Sent from Postbox 
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Re: [Talk-GB] UPRN wiki page

[James Derrick]

Hi,

Thanks for the additional information Mark - very useful.

On 18/11/2020 11:28, Mark Goodge wrote:
What I'd suggest, therefore, is that we should add as many USRNs as 
possible, based on a best-match between the relevant OSM way and the 
OS OpenUSRN geometry. But we should only add UPRNs that are 
unambiguously the correct one for a particular building or structure. 


+1

That makes a lot of sense, as does the other comments about the geometry 
and modelling (down to way segments) of OS and OSM mapping being different.


The UPRN point is well made - the junction of Glazebury Way / Gisburn 
Court has both a foul drain cover (subterranean infra ref?) and a 
Northumberland County Council grit bin (with a NCC-specific reference 
label)!



My hope in attempting the earlier Overpass query is that a JOSM 
validator might be possible to assist with tagging, however the 
complexities being discussed here suggest that UPRN=building; 
USRN=highway; is both simple and wrong in several edge cases.



In case you want to visualise the earlier discussion about Cramlington, 
here's an https://overpass-turbo.eu/ query to show the USRN data I added 
as soon as it became publicly available:


---cut here---
//[bbox:south,west,north,east]
[out:json][timeout:25][bbox:55.08,-1.60,55.10,-1.566];
(
    way["ref:GB:usrn"];
);
// print results
out body;
>;
out skel qt;
---cut here---

(and change "ref:GB:usrn" to "ref:GB:uprn" to see house references, and 
the missing building I'm about to add...)


Happy Mapping,


James
--
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Re: [Talk-GB] UPRN wiki page

[James Derrick]

Morning all,

On 17/11/2020 15:32, Mark Goodge wrote:
what we have is what, from a mapping perspective, is a single road 
(Glazebury Way), but that comprises multiple OSM ways. So it's not 
unreasonable to add the UPRN to all the ways which make up the road.
However, in this case I think I am talking bollocks. Although the OSM 
mapper has assigned UPRN 10071171668 to Glazebrook Way, the OS 
OpenUPRN OpenUSRN and OpenMap lookups link it to Gairloch Close. If we 
look at Gairloch Close (USRN 3230053) on my USRN map:


Owning up, that mapper is me! 

Just as Rob N added U*RN to his portfolio of useful visualisation tools, 
I noticed that adding UPRN to building=* gave location-checked green 
circles, adding UPRN to highway=* didn't seem to.


As an experiment, I added the same ID to both ref:GB:usrn and 
ref:GB:uprn tags and promptly forgot about the double tagging.


Jez let me know in a changeset discussion here, and the errant tag removed:

https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/90968241

So, if there's any talking bollocks here - it's been uttered by me on 
home turf!



I've removed the experimental double-tagging, and attempted to create a 
basic Overpass Turbo query to look for (what could be) incorrect values:


---cut here---

[out:json][timeout:25];
// gather results
(
  // node or way double tagged
  node["ref:GB:usrn"]["ref:GB:uprn"]({{bbox}});
  way["ref:GB:usrn"]["ref:GB:uprn"]({{bbox}});
  // highway with Property
  way["ref:GB:uprn"]["highway"]({{bbox}});
  // building with Street
  node["ref:GB:usrn"]["building"]({{bbox}});
 way["ref:GB:usrn"]["building"]({{bbox}});
);
// print results
out body;
>;
out skel qt;

---cut here---


And now down the rabbit hole...

there's a single linked UPRN that appears to be on Glazebury Way, or 
at least the intersection of Glazebury Way and Gairloch Close, rather 
than one of the properties on Gairloch Close. Follow that link, and 
it's UPRN 10071171668:


https://uprn.uk/10071171668

Now, there's nothing more we can discover from the maps and lookups, 
given that the OS open data doesn't tell us precisely what it is and 
the maps aren't sufficiently high-resolution. But if we cheat a bit 
and go to the location on Google Maps, then switch into street view:


https://goo.gl/maps/ojwFAP21D4HkUvX77

I have a strong hunch that UPRN 10071171668 is actually a subsurface 
property (eg, a utilities conduit) accessed via that manhole cover.


Now that's a whole level of complexity which I wasn't previously aware 
of. If the data set includes data for ALL entity types (e.g. not just 
buildings, streets and the odd post box), then my assumption that a U*RN 
in the middle of a highway which looks like a logical centre point for a 
way segment could be incorrect.


Looking out of my window (I did say this is home turf...) there is a 
foul drain cover at the intersection of Glazebury/ Gisburn, and likely 
one at Glazebury/ Gisburn (it's currently chucking it down here, so not 
keen to check immediately).


Building UPRN tags appear to be more clear-cut, with the U*SN location 
node around the centre of a building way.


As we all learn more about the data, perhaps I (and others?) may have 
been to quick to add USRN tags as they first became available?


As several of you appear to have additional sources to validate USRN, 
could you offer any suggestions to alter these specific 
highway=residential please?



James
--
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li...@jamesderrick.org, Cramlington, England
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Re: [Talk-GB] Lorries can't limbo

[James Derrick]

On 13/11/2020 09:06, Philip Barnes wrote:

Also I have been thinking of height restrictions on level crossings
where the railway is electrified.

I believe that the East Coast line has level crossings?


After many years looking out of the window travelling from NCL to EDI on 
the East Coast Main Line (ECML is a common abbreviation - e.g. in bridge 
references), I'd give a special mention to the rural level crossings 
which have two poles and a line of suspended bells across the track to 
(hopefully) alert any machinery operators that Something Bad Is About to 
Happen!


'got_bells_on = yes' perhaps? :-)

Sadly, I don't have specific examples, just the memory of countryside, 
likely either side of Berwick.



A little more seriously, several types of infrastructure have 
over-height detection kit - e.g. the Tyne Tunnel has broken beam 
detectors across the carriageway about 1km from the tunnel portal.


Look for the poles with two sets of broken beam kit abode the 30 sign in 
this image:

https://www.mapillary.com/map/im/LdqV481D4eAHnvBvrcgKEg

This height restriction is more complex as to add a safety cell 
(evacuation route) to the original Northbound circular bore, the lanes 
were moved off-centre. This means lane 1 has greater clearance than lane 
2 - creating the regular task of replacing the signage above lane 2 when 
a lorry driver decides to illegally overtake! donk, donk, donk, crash...


And yes, the approach bridges are 'got_bells_on = yes':
https://www.mapillary.com/map/im/QvgXLAvET7V3xjEdX2Ir_g


The question with the TT is how to tag 5.1 m lane 1 and 4.0 m lane 2 on 
a single highway=trunk; lanes=2?


It's not tagged today, so adding the 5.1m to the trunk would make sense 
as 4.0m would give a false routing.


I'm not personally a fan of the analagous way lane tagging is used to 
model the A1 further north (turn:lanes=through|through|right), as it's 
not human readable on most renders (#include ).



James
--
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li...@jamesderrick.org, Cramlington, England
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Re: [Talk-GB] OSM UK's first tile layer

[James Derrick]

Hi,

On 27/10/2020 06:18, Adrian via Talk-GB wrote:

I agree with Rob that the misalignment of 5m is obvious if you look at Hugh 
Town (Scilly). Both if you compare with the OSM data and if you compare with 
the tracklogs that have been uploaded to OSM. So this transformation won't do. 
I think we need to go for the look-up table.


Whilst the details of your geodesy is impressive but way beyond my 
expertise, over ten years of OSM survey traces suggests another factor 
to be wary of when comparing sub-10m position sources.


Using a Garmin Oregon 550 as a baseline, Oregon 650 and 750 consistently 
give location between 4-8m North North West in Northumberland - the tool 
may influence the measurement beyond your accuracy.


For resilience, I map with at least two GPSr on my bike handlebars and 
regularly upload both tracks to OSM and use both to better position 
mapping and any layers such as imagery. Over the years I've used five or 
six Garmin GPSr. None are even close to a 'proper' differential total 
station, however with datum/ spheroid set to WGS 84, the same tools and 
JOSM workflow show the offset. Changing GPS/ GLONASS or WAAS/ EGNOS 
seems to have less impact than the choice of Garmin unit (same settings 
across devices). Firmware updates have changed motion compensation when 
changing direction fast, but the offset remains.


The trouble will be is without device data in tracklogs there's no way 
to separate random from systematic offsets (even if you had them...) - 
you can only average all data.



Thanks for your interesting work - I remember tales from Registers of 
Scotland of an OS baseline survey error that 'moved' the East coast by 
many meters proving 'You Are Here' is hard to quantify!



James
--
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li...@jamesderrick.org, Cramlington, England
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Re: [OSM-talk] Find actively browsed undermapped regions and other gaps in OSM

[James]

Just a little feedback, the "mobile" version looks like eye cancer:

https://imgur.com/a/lA44Qmn

On Tue., Oct. 20, 2020, 9:38 a.m. Darafei Praliaskouski via talk, <
talk@openstreetmap.org> wrote:

> Hi,
>
> Fixed links:
>
> Kontur OpenStreetMap Antiquity:
>
> https://disaster.ninja/live/#id=GDACS_EQ_1240102_1338684;position=7.92,45.59;zoom=4.4;overlays=bivariate-custom_kontur_openstreetmap_antiquity
>
> Kontur OpenStreetMap Building Quantity:
>
> https://disaster.ninja/live/#id=GDACS_EQ_1240102_1338684;position=-75.17,40.144086257217054;zoom=8.56;overlays=bivariate-custom_kontur_openstreetmap_building_quantity
>
> The other layers are available in the right Overlay panel.
>
> Have a good day.
>
> On Tue, Oct 20, 2020 at 3:46 PM Darafei Praliaskouski 
> wrote:
> >
> > Hi mappers,
> >
> > We’ve polished our visualization of the need for OpenStreetMap data,
> > and its quality. We’ve been building Disaster.Ninja tool to assist HOT
> > in their activation process, but believe it’s also useful for the
> > general mapping community.
> >
> > Kontur OpenStreetMap Antiquity layer lets you see where people look at
> > the map tiles versus when the map was last edited. Good way to see
> > undermapped regions that are explored by the users in search of data.
> > We base the layer on tile views information, thanks Operations Working
> > group for making it available for such analysis.
> >
> >
> https://disaster.ninja/live/#position=7.92,45.59;zoom=4.4;overlays=bivariate-custom_kontur_openstreetmap_antiquity
> >
> > Kontur OpenStreetMap Building Quantity is now pointing to a lot more
> > missed buildings. This became possible thanks to Copernicus releasing
> > a high resolution global landcover classification raster, and
> > Microsoft providing the computer vision detected buildings for Canada,
> > USA, Uganda and Tanzania. Look at the gaps here:
> >
> >
> https://disaster.ninja/live/#position=-75.17,40.144086257217054;zoom=8.56;overlays=bivariate-custom_kontur_openstreetmap_building_quantity
> >
> > I know this layer was used to plan some mapping parties in Ukraine
> already.
> >
> > Check out the other layers if you haven’t seen them, too. :)
> >
> > To support this visualization we combined all the available public
> > datasets (Facebook Population, OpenStreetMap, Microsoft buildings,
> > Copernicus) into a single world population dataset. If you need it for
> > your analysis, get it here:
> > https://data.humdata.org/dataset/kontur-population-dataset
> >
> > Hope to hear your thoughts on this update.
> >
> > Darafei
>
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Re: [Talk-GB] Turn Restrictions at roundabouts

[James Derrick]

On 04/10/2020 07:42, Edward Bainton wrote:
I've been marking them as false positives as to my mind it's obvious 
that you wouldn't U-turn there (but equally, it would be legal to do so).


You would also probably need a vehicle with a tight turning circle, and 
a quiet road - so agree it would be an unusual choice. Agree false 
positives.


But the points about machine routing make me think maybe I shouldn't 
be closing these off? Any thoughts?


Your example looks like a very common roundabout flare 3-way node with a 
cycleway crossing node. Taking the JOSM code as an example, perhaps the 
"ImproveOSM" validation also has a segment length test (<20m?) so the 
crossing is suggesting a more complex junction?



Eg, at node https://www.openstreetmap.org/node/26187838


Personally, adding restrictions to this common a use-case should be 
unnecessary (fix once in the router, not every roundabout on the map). 
Save your effort for more complex junctions where software 
understandably needs a helping hand with real-world oddities.


Happy Mapping,


James
--
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Re: [Talk-GB] Turn Restrictions at roundabouts

[James Derrick]

Hi Dave,

Thanks for answering my original router logic question! :-)


On 03/10/2020 17:52, Dave F via Talk-GB wrote:

I've just tested in JOSM. It flagged no such validation warning.
https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/3403352


Interesting - you're right, I couldn't easily reproduce the 'Sharp 
Angle' validation warning in the latest JOSM either.


After hunting out the code, the warning currently isn't triggered unless 
the segment leading to a <45deg angle is <10m:

https://josm.openstreetmap.de/browser/josm/trunk/src/org/openstreetmap/josm/data/validation/tests/SharpAngles.java

Looking at a couple of local roundabouts via imagery, a flare this short 
verges on a single node highway=mini_roundabout, unless lots of extra 
nodes have been added to the flare to give a curved approach.


After over a dozen years of using JOSM, it still surprises me with extra 
features.


Happy Mapping,


James
--
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Re: [Talk-GB] Turn Restrictions at roundabouts

[James Derrick]

Hi,

On 03/10/2020 14:05, Brian Prangle wrote:
There seems to be a predilection for adding turn restrictions , either 
no right rurns or no U turns at the exit flares of roundabouts to 
prevent turning back into the entry flares where there are no explicit 
signed restrictions. I suspect this is "rendering for routers". Do 
routers actually need this data?  I'm tempted just to delete them all 
wherever I meet them, but I suspect there are thousands of them and 
there'll be howls of complaint.


About the only change I've made in years of mapping 'non-mini' 
roundabouts is to split the oneway=yes flare 'V' into two segments. JOSM 
validation started flagging the junction node of the V as too tight a 
bend, which I suppose makes sense.


I wonder if seeing a junction node of three vertices rather than a 
300degree turn on one segment make a difference to roundabout unaware 
routers?


Poor attempt at an ASCII diagram explaining what a two segment flare is 
below!


Flare 1 ->---\

              * Road 3 continues away from roundabout

Flare 2 -<---/

Flares are the oneway=yes roads connecting to the roundabout.
These are often a single V shaped segment, rather than two plus the road.


James
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Re: [Talk-us] [Tagging] Large fire perimeter tagging?

[James Umbanhowar]

Something else to consider is that even though there is a perimeter for
a fire, there can be highly variable impacts on the landcover within
the perimeter.  Some areas may have not burned, other areas only burned
the understory, some with limited burning of trees and other with full
tree killing canopy burns.  The effects of these will also depend on
the specific species that burn.  So to convert and entire area inside a
fire perimeter to one land cover without extensive surveying would
likely be in error.  

It seems as though the perimeter tag is the most verifiable at this
point.

James

On Thu, 2020-09-24 at 15:05 -0700, Clifford Snow wrote:
> Steve,
> Just a reminder, landuse is to tag what the land is used for.
> landuse=forest is for areas that have harvestable wood products, ie
> trees. Just because there was a fire doesn't mean the landuse
> changes. Landcover is a better tag for burnt areas as well as areas
> just clearcut. 
> 
> 
> 
> On Thu, Sep 24, 2020 at 2:31 PM stevea 
> wrote:
> > I didn't get a single reply on this (see below), which I find
> > surprising, especially as there are currently even larger fires
> > that are more widespread all across the Western United States.
> > 
> > I now ask if there are additional, appropriate polygons with tags
> > I'm not familiar with regarding landcover that might be added to
> > the map (as "landuse=forest" might be strictly true now only in a
> > 'zoning' sense, as many of the actual trees that MAKE these forests
> > have sadly burned down, or substantially so).
> > 
> > Considering that there are literally millions and millions of acres
> > of (newly) burned areas (forest, scrub, grassland, residential,
> > commercial, industrial, public, private...), I'm surprised that OSM
> > doesn't have some well-pondered and actual tags that reflect this
> > situation.  My initial tagging of this (simply tagged, but
> > enormous) polygon as "fire=perimeter" was coined on my part, but as
> > I search wiki, taginfo and Overpass Turbo queries for similar data
> > in the map, I come up empty.
> > 
> > First, do others think it is important that we map these?  I say
> > yes, as this fire has absolutely enormous impact to what we do and
> > might map here, both present and future.  The aftermath of this
> > fire (>85,000 acres this fire alone) will last for decades, and for
> > OSM to not reflect this in the map (somehow, better bolstered than
> > a simple, though huge, polygon tagged with fire=perimeter,
> > start_date and end_date) seems OSM "cartographically misses
> > something."  I know that HOT mappers map the "present- and
> > aftermath-" of humanitarian disasters, I've HOT-participated
> > myself.  So, considering the thousands of structures that burned
> > (most of them homes), tens of thousands of acres which are burn-
> > scarred and distinctly different than their landcover, millions of
> > trees (yes, really) and even landuse is now currently tagged, I
> > look for guidance — beyond the simple tag of fire=perimeter on a
> > large polygon.
> > 
> > Second, if we do choose to "better" map these incidents and results
> > (they are life- and planet-altering on a grand scale) how might we
> > choose to do that?  Do we have landcover tags which could replace
> > landuse=forest or natural=wood with something like
> > natural=fire_scarred?  (I'm making that up, but it or something
> > like it could work).  How and when might we replace these with
> > something less severe?  On the other hand, if it isn't appropriate
> > that we map any of this, please say so.
> > 
> > Thank you, especially any guidance offered from HOT contributors
> > who have worked on post-fire humanitarian disasters,
> > 
> > SteveA
> > California (who has returned home after evacuation, relatively safe
> > now that this fire is 100% contained)
> > 
> > 
> > On Aug 29, 2020, at 7:20 PM, stevea 
> > wrote:
> > > Not sure if crossposting to talk-us is correct, but it is a "home
> > list" for me.
> > > 
> > > I've created a large fire perimeter in OSM from public sources, 
> > http://www.osm.org/way/842280873 .  This is a huge fire (sadly,
> > there are larger ones right now, too), over 130 square miles, and
> > caused the evacuation of every third person in my county (yes). 
> > There are hundreds, perhaps thousands of structures, mostly
> > residential homes, which have burned down and the event has
> > "completely changed" giant redwoods in and the character of
> > California's oldest state pa

Re: [OSM-talk] Examples of good paid mapping?

[James]

I've been paid in the past to do mapping for someone, but I was already an
active experienced osm mapper beforehand.

How to be successful:

 Listen to osm experts/community and not fight against them

Use existing tags on the wiki, don't invent your own

Verify data accuracy as much as you can, not dump data

When merging data, verify if data is older than yours, locals usually have
a better sense of what buildings/pois have been demolished/exist

On Fri., Sep. 11, 2020, 3:56 p.m. Michał Brzozowski, 
wrote:

> Hi all,
> Do we have any examples of companies that do paid mapping (preferably at
> scale) and do it right?
> Maybe leading by example will help other mapping teams get along better
> with local OSM communities?
>
> Michał
>
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>
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Re: [talk-au] Are Health Centres, hospitals

[Michael James]

That list is for Queensland Health operated facilities not just hospitals so 
yes your right in that particular site would not be a hospital per se.

Not sure where you find a list of accredited hospitals but it is a thing as I 
live in a street with 2 facilities that are accredited as hospitals but only 
one calls itself a hospital.

Not sure QAS offers any walk up facilities anymore, the local one here has a 
phone out the front to call for help.

Michael


From: Graeme Fitzpatrick 
Sent: Friday, 4 September 2020 12:51 PM
To: OSM-Au 
Subject: [talk-au] Are Health Centres, hospitals

Over the last few days, I've spotted a few places marked as hospitals that 
aren't.

Locally, there were two Aged Care homes, then as I looked around further, I 
spotted another Aged Care home, an Ambulance station in a small country town & 
an SES station!

The Ambo station I could almost relate to, as that's where you go for any 
medical emergency, but none of the others. Incidentally, there is hopefully 
some progress on them being rendered? 
https://github.com/gravitystorm/openstreetmap-carto/issues/3968

I did an Overpass search for Qld & found ~2100 "hospitals", which seems like a 
lot?  https://overpass-turbo.eu/# (Don't know if 
that works or not?), & checking at random, found more Ambo's, Doctor's 
surgeries & so on also marked.

I did notice, though, a few of these: 
https://www.health.qld.gov.au/services/northwest/nwest_burket_hc

Personally, I would call that a Medical Centre, not a Hospital?, while this 
https://www.health.qld.gov.au/cq/hospitals/blackwater/services with A & 
inpatients is a Hospital.

What do you all think?

Thanks

Graeme
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[OSM-talk] Microsoft Flight Simulator 2020 using OSM data with hilarious results

[James]

Seems the snapshot was about a year ago:

https://twitter.com/liamosaur/status/1296305264870662144

https://twitter.com/alexandermuscat/status/1296010700746194945

and people trying to land on it:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GhrGEdO88kE

Not sure if osm is being credited in game
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Re: [Talk-us] changeset: 89516909

[James Umbanhowar]

I'm going to bow out of this discussion.  The boundary relation is
broken again.  I'm not trying to be confrontational, but my attempts to
figure out what sources this user is using and to reconcile this with
what they are editing appear to be antagonizing them.  I have also lost
my patience so I will probably not be the most understanding anymore.

James
 
On Tue, 2020-08-18 at 20:23 -0400, Kevin Kenny wrote:
> You still aren't giving us very much to go on.  There's obviously
> some boundary that you consider to be inarguably correct. You need
> either to enter the data yourself or tell us where to find it and
> where the discrepancies are.
> 
> Sometimes that involves quite a lot of research. I have a ton of data
> conflicts about boundaries near me, and only rarely do I have the
> time to pursue the issues. If often involves reconciling half a dozen
> supposedly authoritative sources, as shown in 
> https://www.openstreetmap.org/user/ke9tv/diary/391486.  It's very
> rarely as simple as 'agency X is wrong and agency Y is right'. It's
> often 'agency X has lines that reflect current annexation, but part
> of their boundary is in NAD27 and part WGS84. Agency Y misses a
> recent annexation but has got the datums right. Agency Z has the
> artificial lines right, but is totally off base with the shorelines.
> Agency W appears to have digitized from a small-scale map and has a
> ton of quantization error.'
> 
> It's not a political boundary, but 
> https://www.openstreetmap.org/user/ke9tv/diary/42951 shows another
> example of the level of cadastral research that's often required to
> sort these things out.
> 
> By the way, I _do_ occasionally go out into the field and try to
> recover old survey marks to sort these things out.  For the
> inconsistent corner between Lost Clove Unit and Big Indian Wilderness
> at https://kbk.is-a-geek.net/attachments/20191205/osm-vs-nysgis.png I
> simply gave up. There are cairns at both corners. If the professional
> surveyors couldn't close the line, what hope do I have? (Nobody
> actually cares. It's wilderness anyway.)
> 
> On Tue, Aug 18, 2020 at 8:03 PM 80hnhtv4agou--- via Talk-us <
> talk-us@openstreetmap.org> wrote:
> > FYI;
> >  
> > for all of you who are not in country and do not understand about
> > usa city bounders.
> >  
> > https://www.census.gov/programs-surveys/geography/contact.html
> >  
> > and did you read what the other guy said, this is the census data
> > not true map data.
> >  
> > https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/89598349.
> >  
> > > Tuesday, August 18, 2020 10:52 AM -05:00 from James Umbanhowar <
> > > jumba...@gmail.com>:
> > >  
> > > What link are you using for this? I downloaded the places
> > > boundary
> > > information from here:
> > > https://www.census.gov/cgi-bin/geo/shapefiles/index.php
> > > 
> > > As I said, I'm happy to change, but I can't change without actual
> > > information.
> > > 
> > > On Tue, 2020-08-18 at 18:43 +0300, 80hnhtv4agou--- via Talk-us
> > > wrote:
> > > > i am looking at the TIRGER web, show’s the real map online and
> > > > nothing you did matches.
> > > >
> > > > i live here and a block away from the edens spur just saying.
> > > >
> > > > > Tuesday, August 18, 2020 10:38 AM -05:00 from James
> > > Umbanhowar <
> > > > > jumba...@gmail.com>:
> > > > >
> > > > > It would probably be best if these suggestions were added in
> > > the
> > > > > changeset comments, as they don't need to be discussed on the
> > > > > mailing
> > > > > list.
> > > > >
> > > > > On Tue, 2020-08-18 at 11:36 -0400, James Umbanhowar wrote:
> > > > > > I'm the person who made the changes and am happy to adjust
> > > the
> > > > > map to
> > > > > > better authoritative data or information. My motivation for
> > > this
> > > > > was
> > > > > > to fix a mangled boundary relation that didn't have
> > > consistent
> > > > > outer
> > > > > > and inner members. The changes came in two changesets,
> > > > > > https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/89220282 and
> > > > > > https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/89516909
> > > > > >
> > > > > > The first changeset just made the relation consistent with
> > > outer
> > > > > ways
> > > > > > and inner ways. I preserved all th

Re: [Talk-us] changeset: 89516909

[James Umbanhowar]

What link are you using for this?  I downloaded the places boundary
information from here: 
https://www.census.gov/cgi-bin/geo/shapefiles/index.php

As I said, I'm happy to change, but I can't change without actual
information.

On Tue, 2020-08-18 at 18:43 +0300, 80hnhtv4agou--- via Talk-us wrote:
> i am looking at the TIRGER  web, show’s the real map online and
> nothing you did matches. 
>  
> i live here and a block away from the edens spur just saying.
>  
> > Tuesday, August 18, 2020 10:38 AM -05:00 from James Umbanhowar <
> > jumba...@gmail.com>:
> >  
> > It would probably be best if these suggestions were added in the
> > changeset comments, as they don't need to be discussed on the
> > mailing
> > list.
> > 
> > On Tue, 2020-08-18 at 11:36 -0400, James Umbanhowar wrote:
> > > I'm the person who made the changes and am happy to adjust the
> > map to
> > > better authoritative data or information. My motivation for this
> > was
> > > to fix a mangled boundary relation that didn't have consistent
> > outer
> > > and inner members. The changes came in two changesets,
> > > https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/89220282 and
> > > https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/89516909
> > >
> > > The first changeset just made the relation consistent with outer
> > ways
> > > and inner ways. I preserved all the ways that were in the
> > relation
> > > that
> > > lead to the inconsistency and they are still in the database with
> > a
> > > note attached to them. The second came after a changeset comment
> > that
> > > noted that the fixed relation didn't match and earlier unbroken
> > > relation, in particular around the Edens Spur. I then changed the
> > > border in this area to match the 2019 Tiger data in that area
> > only.
> > >
> > > James
> > >
> > > On Tue, 2020-08-18 at 02:37 +0300, 80hnhtv4agou--- via Talk-us
> > wrote:
> > > > Changeset #89220282
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > Monday, August 17, 2020 6:34 PM -05:00 from Mike Thompson <
> > > > > miketh...@gmail.com>:
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > On Mon, Aug 17, 2020 at 5:24 PM 80hnhtv4agou--- via Talk-us <
> > > > > talk-us@openstreetmap.org> wrote:
> > > > > > tiger is up to date on the web map using the current data i
> > > > > > just
> > > > > > think he picked the wrong year,
> > > > >
> > > > > That relation was first created in 2009. According to the
> > source
> > > > > tag, it used 2008 Tiger data, so the original mapper probably
> > > > > used
> > > > > the best available TIGER data at the time.
> > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > also all he got was a white line in his first try.
> > > > > > Way: 813726663
> > > > >
> > > > > That way needs to be added to the relation, and the relation
> > must
> > > > > close.
> > > > > ___
> > > > > Talk-us mailing list
> > > > > Talk-us@openstreetmap.org
> > > > > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > ___
> > > > Talk-us mailing list
> > > > Talk-us@openstreetmap.org
> > > > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
> > 
> > 
> > ___
> > Talk-us mailing list
> > Talk-us@openstreetmap.org
> > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
>  
>  
>  
>  
> ___
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Re: [Talk-us] changeset: 89516909

[James Umbanhowar]

It would probably be best if these suggestions were added in the
changeset comments, as they don't need to be discussed on the mailing
list.

On Tue, 2020-08-18 at 11:36 -0400, James Umbanhowar wrote:
> I'm the person who made the changes and am happy to adjust the map to
> better authoritative data or information.  My motivation for this was
> to fix a mangled boundary relation that didn't have consistent outer
> and inner members.  The changes came in two changesets,
> https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/89220282 and 
> https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/89516909
> 
> The first changeset just made the relation consistent with outer ways
> and inner ways. I preserved all the ways that were in the relation
> that
> lead to the inconsistency and they are still in the database with a
> note attached to them. The second came after a changeset comment that
> noted that the fixed relation didn't match and earlier unbroken
> relation, in particular around the Edens Spur.  I then changed the
> border in this area to match the 2019 Tiger data in that area only.
> 
> James
> 
> On Tue, 2020-08-18 at 02:37 +0300, 80hnhtv4agou--- via Talk-us wrote:
> > Changeset #89220282
> > 
> >  
> > > Monday, August 17, 2020 6:34 PM -05:00 from Mike Thompson <
> > > miketh...@gmail.com>:
> > >  
> > >  
> > >  
> > > On Mon, Aug 17, 2020 at 5:24 PM 80hnhtv4agou--- via Talk-us <
> > > talk-us@openstreetmap.org> wrote:
> > > > tiger is up to date on the web map using the current data i
> > > > just
> > > > think he picked the wrong year,
> > > 
> > > That relation was first created in 2009.  According to the source
> > > tag, it used 2008 Tiger data, so the original mapper probably
> > > used
> > > the best available TIGER data at the time.
> > >  
> > > >  
> > > > also all he got was a white line in his first try.
> > > > Way: 813726663
> > > 
> > > That way needs to be added to the relation, and the relation must
> > > close.
> > > ___
> > > Talk-us mailing list
> > > Talk-us@openstreetmap.org
> > > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
> >  
> >  
> >  
> >  
> > ___
> > Talk-us mailing list
> > Talk-us@openstreetmap.org
> > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us


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Re: [Talk-us] changeset: 89516909

[James Umbanhowar]

I'm the person who made the changes and am happy to adjust the map to
better authoritative data or information.  My motivation for this was
to fix a mangled boundary relation that didn't have consistent outer
and inner members.  The changes came in two changesets,
https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/89220282 and 
https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/89516909

The first changeset just made the relation consistent with outer ways
and inner ways. I preserved all the ways that were in the relation that
lead to the inconsistency and they are still in the database with a
note attached to them. The second came after a changeset comment that
noted that the fixed relation didn't match and earlier unbroken
relation, in particular around the Edens Spur.  I then changed the
border in this area to match the 2019 Tiger data in that area only.

James

On Tue, 2020-08-18 at 02:37 +0300, 80hnhtv4agou--- via Talk-us wrote:
> Changeset #89220282
> 
>  
> > Monday, August 17, 2020 6:34 PM -05:00 from Mike Thompson <
> > miketh...@gmail.com>:
> >  
> >  
> >  
> > On Mon, Aug 17, 2020 at 5:24 PM 80hnhtv4agou--- via Talk-us <
> > talk-us@openstreetmap.org> wrote:
> > > tiger is up to date on the web map using the current data i just
> > > think he picked the wrong year,
> > 
> > That relation was first created in 2009.  According to the source
> > tag, it used 2008 Tiger data, so the original mapper probably used
> > the best available TIGER data at the time.
> >  
> > >  
> > > also all he got was a white line in his first try.
> > > Way: 813726663
> > 
> > That way needs to be added to the relation, and the relation must
> > close.
> > ___
> > Talk-us mailing list
> > Talk-us@openstreetmap.org
> > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
>  
>  
>  
>  
> ___
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Re: [OSM-talk] Roadmap for deprecation of name tags in OSM

[James]

Not to mention if someone wants to add a name for a new item/object, does
the user need to create a wikidata item on top of it? Will the editor do it
automatically? How does it pick the right one? Does it offer a list to the
user? This is going to make osm a massive turn off to new contributors on
the steep learning curve(which is already pretty high) to contributing to
osm.

This whole idea is really terrible and could just be offered as a
post-processed data set: wikidata? use that instead of name tag.

On Sun., Aug. 9, 2020, 8:58 a.m. pangoSE,  wrote:

> Yeah this is probably not the best route forward, given that wikidata is
> so big and contains a lot of osm unrelated data.
>
> James  skrev: (9 augusti 2020 14:31:57 CEST)
>>
>> and if the solution is to download the data then download wikidata, it's
>> even more clunky than the name tag itself
>>
>> On Sun., Aug. 9, 2020, 8:29 a.m. Jeremy Harris,  wrote:
>>
>>> On 09/08/2020 09:25, pangoSE wrote:
>>> > I suggest we create a roadmap for deprecating of storing and updating
>>> names in OSM for objects with a Wikidata tag.
>>>
>>> > Substantial changes will have to be made:
>>> > * nominatim will need to support fetching names from wikidata somehow.
>>> It could probably be done on the fly.
>>> > * openstreetmap.org will need to fetch from wikidata when displaying
>>> any object.
>>> > * rendering the standard map will have to support fetching from
>>> wikidata.
>>>
>>> How would that work for an offline renderer?
>>> Not everyone has, or wants to have, their phone connected 24/7.
>>> --
>>> Cheers,
>>>   Jeremy
>>>
>>> ___
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>>> talk@openstreetmap.org
>>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
>>>
>>
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Re: [OSM-talk] Roadmap for deprecation of name tags in OSM

[James]

Network calls incur a performance hit. I didn't say it was complicated.

On Sun., Aug. 9, 2020, 8:46 a.m. pangoSE,  wrote:

>
> I disagree. With (permanent) unique ids is trivial and the overhead is IMO
> neglible.
>
> Its not rocket science to query an API endpoint from any programming
> language. All our data consumers are already doing this.
>
> I made a simple map in a few hours that query both overpass and wikidata
> based on the osmid to find links to images of shelters. See
> https://github.com/pangoSE/sheltermap
>
> James  skrev: (9 augusti 2020 13:59:40 CEST)
>>
>> Not to mention the additional overhead of conflating two databases to get
>> something essential like a name
>>
>> On Sun., Aug. 9, 2020, 7:57 a.m. Alan Mackie,  wrote:
>>
>>> This seems like a bad idea.
>>>
>>> Name tags are generally very easy to verify on the ground. It is not
>>> always as easy to tell if a shop with a certain name belongs to a specific
>>> wikidata entry, especially in jurisdictions that are less litigious when it
>>> comes to trademarks.
>>>
>>> We also should not be doing bulk name changes until we have verified
>>> that the signage on the individual locations has actually changed.
>>> Depending on the brand these could take years to ripple through to the
>>> individual stores, and particularly 'historic' stores may retain old
>>> branding as part of a conscious effort not to irk locals. Branding changes
>>> in the Wikidata would likely be over-applied.
>>>
>>> Abandoning the name tags for chains would essentially be carte-blanche
>>> permission for automated edits. As it stands now, a disagreement between
>>> OSM name and Wikidata name may be a useful indicator that resurvey is
>>> needed. If we abandon name tags we open the door to the introduction of
>>> dodgy data that isn't caught by any of our QA tools because it doesn't even
>>> have a changeset.
>>>
>>> If "duplication"  is really an issue, I would prefer to remove all
>>> Wikidata tags than to depreciate names where they exist. Forcing
>>> contributors to check an independant database before uploading survey
>>> results seems like a lot of extra effort for a volunteer driven project.
>>>
>>> On Sun, 9 Aug 2020 at 12:11, pangoSE  wrote:
>>>
>>>> These are valid concerns. See my response to James.
>>>> If Wikimedia should become uncooperative we could easily set up our own
>>>> wikibase installation. See https://www.wbstack.com/
>>>>
>>>> It takes a few minutes plus some configuration time.
>>>>
>>>> It would also be a new and currently unnecessary drain on OSMF's
>>> resources.
>>>
>>> In fact this might be much better than forcing our data into wikidata
>>>> which is very tied to education and does not accept all our objects that
>>>> have names currently.
>>>>
>>>> In case we take this route I would recommend having another prefix than
>>>> Q for our unique ids.
>>>>
>>>> Cheers
>>>>
>>>> Mateusz Konieczny via talk  skrev: (9 augusti
>>>> 2020 12:16:33 CEST)
>>>>>
>>>>> or has downtime? or deletes data/items used by OSM? or bans OSM
>>>>> mappers?
>>>>> or refuses to ban vandal/troll/harasser? or fails to ban them quickly?
>>>>>
>>>>> Aug 9, 2020, 11:45 by james2...@gmail.com:
>>>>>
>>>>> is there a contingency plan if wikipedia/wikimedia ceases to exist?
>>>>>
>>>>> On Sun., Aug. 9, 2020, 4:29 a.m. pangoSE,  wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> I suggest we create a roadmap for deprecating of storing and updating
>>>>> names in OSM for objects with a Wikidata tag.
>>>>>
>>>>> The rationale is explained here:
>>>>> https://josm.openstreetmap.de/ticket/19655
>>>>>
>>>>> This of course affects the whole project and data consumers as well.
>>>>> Every OSM user will have to become a Wikidata user as well to edit the
>>>>> names or add name references (through the editors)
>>>>>
>>>>> Substantial changes will have to be made:
>>>>> * nominatim will need to support fetching names from wikidata somehow.
>>>>> It could probably be done on the fly.
>>>>> * openstreetmap.org will need to fetch from wikidata when displaying
>>>>> any objec

Re: [OSM-talk] Roadmap for deprecation of name tags in OSM

[James]

and if the solution is to download the data then download wikidata, it's
even more clunky than the name tag itself

On Sun., Aug. 9, 2020, 8:29 a.m. Jeremy Harris,  wrote:

> On 09/08/2020 09:25, pangoSE wrote:
> > I suggest we create a roadmap for deprecating of storing and updating
> names in OSM for objects with a Wikidata tag.
>
> > Substantial changes will have to be made:
> > * nominatim will need to support fetching names from wikidata somehow.
> It could probably be done on the fly.
> > * openstreetmap.org will need to fetch from wikidata when displaying
> any object.
> > * rendering the standard map will have to support fetching from wikidata.
>
> How would that work for an offline renderer?
> Not everyone has, or wants to have, their phone connected 24/7.
> --
> Cheers,
>   Jeremy
>
> ___
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> talk@openstreetmap.org
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>
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Re: [OSM-talk] Roadmap for deprecation of name tags in OSM

[James]

Not to mention the additional overhead of conflating two databases to get
something essential like a name

On Sun., Aug. 9, 2020, 7:57 a.m. Alan Mackie,  wrote:

> This seems like a bad idea.
>
> Name tags are generally very easy to verify on the ground. It is not
> always as easy to tell if a shop with a certain name belongs to a specific
> wikidata entry, especially in jurisdictions that are less litigious when it
> comes to trademarks.
>
> We also should not be doing bulk name changes until we have verified that
> the signage on the individual locations has actually changed. Depending on
> the brand these could take years to ripple through to the individual
> stores, and particularly 'historic' stores may retain old branding as part
> of a conscious effort not to irk locals. Branding changes in the Wikidata
> would likely be over-applied.
>
> Abandoning the name tags for chains would essentially be carte-blanche
> permission for automated edits. As it stands now, a disagreement between
> OSM name and Wikidata name may be a useful indicator that resurvey is
> needed. If we abandon name tags we open the door to the introduction of
> dodgy data that isn't caught by any of our QA tools because it doesn't even
> have a changeset.
>
> If "duplication"  is really an issue, I would prefer to remove all
> Wikidata tags than to depreciate names where they exist. Forcing
> contributors to check an independant database before uploading survey
> results seems like a lot of extra effort for a volunteer driven project.
>
> On Sun, 9 Aug 2020 at 12:11, pangoSE  wrote:
>
>> These are valid concerns. See my response to James.
>> If Wikimedia should become uncooperative we could easily set up our own
>> wikibase installation. See https://www.wbstack.com/
>>
>> It takes a few minutes plus some configuration time.
>>
>> It would also be a new and currently unnecessary drain on OSMF's
> resources.
>
> In fact this might be much better than forcing our data into wikidata
>> which is very tied to education and does not accept all our objects that
>> have names currently.
>>
>> In case we take this route I would recommend having another prefix than Q
>> for our unique ids.
>>
>> Cheers
>>
>> Mateusz Konieczny via talk  skrev: (9 augusti
>> 2020 12:16:33 CEST)
>>>
>>> or has downtime? or deletes data/items used by OSM? or bans OSM mappers?
>>> or refuses to ban vandal/troll/harasser? or fails to ban them quickly?
>>>
>>> Aug 9, 2020, 11:45 by james2...@gmail.com:
>>>
>>> is there a contingency plan if wikipedia/wikimedia ceases to exist?
>>>
>>> On Sun., Aug. 9, 2020, 4:29 a.m. pangoSE,  wrote:
>>>
>>> I suggest we create a roadmap for deprecating of storing and updating
>>> names in OSM for objects with a Wikidata tag.
>>>
>>> The rationale is explained here:
>>> https://josm.openstreetmap.de/ticket/19655
>>>
>>> This of course affects the whole project and data consumers as well.
>>> Every OSM user will have to become a Wikidata user as well to edit the
>>> names or add name references (through the editors)
>>>
>>> Substantial changes will have to be made:
>>> * nominatim will need to support fetching names from wikidata somehow.
>>> It could probably be done on the fly.
>>> * openstreetmap.org will need to fetch from wikidata when displaying
>>> any object.
>>> * rendering the standard map will have to support fetching from wikidata.
>>> * all editors would have to fetch and enable editing of Wikidata
>>> objects.
>>>
>>> These seems like large burdens to dump on open source developers.
>
>> * maybe it no longer makes sense to have 2 separate logins? We should
>>> unify the logging in as much as possible. Ideas are welcome on how to do
>>> that. Perhaps retire signing up as OSM user on osm.org and ask users to
>>> create a Wikimedia account instead and log in with that?
>>>
>>> I'm not sure if I have a Wikidata account so this is a non-issue for
> me.
>
>>
>>> I personally don't see any problems connecting Wikimedia and OSM closer
>>> than the islands they are today.
>>>
>>> As mentioned in the ticket above data consumers like Mapbox already
>>> prefer Wikidata names. I'm guessing thats because they are simply better
>>> quality, better modeled, better referenced and better protected against
>>> vandalism.
>>>
>>> WDYT?
>>>
>>> Cheers
>>> pangoSE
>>> Ps I choose this list because this not only relates to tagging, but to
>>> the wider ecosystem.___
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>>> talk@openstreetmap.org
>>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
>>>
>>>
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Re: [OSM-talk] Roadmap for deprecation of name tags in OSM

[James]

is there a contingency plan if wikipedia/wikimedia ceases to exist?

On Sun., Aug. 9, 2020, 4:29 a.m. pangoSE,  wrote:

> I suggest we create a roadmap for deprecating of storing and updating
> names in OSM for objects with a Wikidata tag.
>
> The rationale is explained here:
> https://josm.openstreetmap.de/ticket/19655
>
> This of course affects the whole project and data consumers as well. Every
> OSM user will have to become a Wikidata user as well to edit the names or
> add name references (through the editors)
>
> Substantial changes will have to be made:
> * nominatim will need to support fetching names from wikidata somehow. It
> could probably be done on the fly.
> * openstreetmap.org will need to fetch from wikidata when displaying any
> object.
> * rendering the standard map will have to support fetching from wikidata.
> * all editors would have to fetch and enable editing of Wikidata objects.
> * maybe it no longer makes sense to have 2 separate logins? We should
> unify the logging in as much as possible. Ideas are welcome on how to do
> that. Perhaps retire signing up as OSM user on osm.org and ask users to
> create a Wikimedia account instead and log in with that?
>
> I personally don't see any problems connecting Wikimedia and OSM closer
> than the islands they are today.
>
> As mentioned in the ticket above data consumers like Mapbox already prefer
> Wikidata names. I'm guessing thats because they are simply better quality,
> better modeled, better referenced and better protected against vandalism.
>
> WDYT?
>
> Cheers
> pangoSE
> Ps I choose this list because this not only relates to tagging, but to the
> wider ecosystem.___
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Re: [Talk-us] Cycleway Crossings

[James Umbanhowar]

I think that iD doesn't have a preset for cycleway=crossing so that
editors may think that is not a valid tag for a crossing.

On Fri, 2020-08-07 at 14:04 -0400, Doug Peterson wrote:
> That wiki page was helpful. In one set of cases the change was from
> highway=cycleway on the way to highway=footway and adding
> footway=crossing. In another set it added highway=crossing to the
> intersection node. It looks like from the crossing wiki that the
> tagging should really be on the node. Way can be tagged as a crossing
> but it seems discouraged. The footway wiki indicates footway=crossing
> should also be on the node.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Doug
> 
> Mateusz Konieczny  wrote ..
> > 
> > 
> > Aug 7, 2020, 13:11 by dougpeter...@dpeters2.dyndns.org:
> > 
> > > I have noticed in my area where some people have been adding
> > > crossings to a designated
> > cycleway (named and signed as a bike trail). The crossings are
> > fine. It is that
> > the crossing is then been changed to a footway. 
> > link?
> > 
> > > I have looked at the highway=cycleway wiki and not seen anything
> > > addressing crossings.
> > There was one screenshot that seemed to show intersections or
> > crossings with roads
> > remaining as cycleways. Before I made any effort on changing these
> > back I wanted
> > to ask if there was any other knowledge out there about this.
> > is https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:crossing maybe helpful?
> 
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Re: [OSM-talk] Funding of three infrastructure projects : Nominatim, osm2pgsql, Potlatch 2

[James]

Personally I use Linux and I fail to see why funding an application that
isn't multiplatform. I choose to use linux as scripting/data manipulation
is easier than windows.

I will not install adobe air as it's discontinued on linux since
2011(security bugs anyone?).  Development and bug fixes on AIR have come to
a crawl on other platforms, if you can't seen it's impending death with
Web2.0 as well as web assembly, clearly you cannot read the market.

On Sun., Aug. 2, 2020, 9:53 a.m. john whelan,  wrote:

> If Air is proprietary and an Adobe product I strongly suggest avoiding it
> purely from a security point of view.  Adobe does not have a good
> reputation in the security world.  Comments certainly have been made about
> Flash.
>
> I don't think we should be encouraging the installation of software that
> could cause problems for our mappers.
>
> I accept that for many who know potlatch well there is a cost of learning
> something new and many are experienced editors who we'd like to see
> continue but there are tradeoffs and I think security of the software we
> are asking people to install should be taken into account.
>
> Cheerio John
>
> On Sun, Aug 2, 2020, 08:54 pangoSE  wrote:
>
>> Is this the platform you are targeting?
>> https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adobe_AIR
>>
>> Its proprietary which makes it prone to the same fate as Flash Player.
>> Why even consider such a move?
>>
>> I never use nonfree software like flash so I never tried P2. What is so
>> special about it? Is there something hindering adding that specialness (as
>> a plugin perhaps) to JOSM?
>>
>> The JOSM devs seem very helpful, supporting and have a friendly culture.
>>
>> I suggest letting this code die as it lures people to install nonfree and
>> therefore dangerous software. Alternatively that you team up with your 20
>> mio edits-peers and port the code to something that does not require
>> proprietary software.
>>
>> You did not present a single usecase that is not covered already by one
>> of the other free software editors so I'm guessing you will have a hard
>> time convincing your peers to team up around yet another editor, but I
>> might be wrong.
>>
>> I don't care about your ROI arguments because they are based on the not
>> outspoken premise that economics of software development is more important
>> when making decisions than freedom, which is false IMO.
>> If you had compared 2 free software projects like iD and JOSM that run
>> without any proprietary code, then it might have been relevant.
>>
>> I suggest declining support of any software project that is or requires
>> proprietary software to run.
>>
>> Cheers
>> pangoSE
>> PS I use 4 different editors to edit in the database: JOSM, OsmAnd,
>> StreetComplete and rarely iD.
>>
>>
>> Richard Fairhurst  skrev: (2 augusti 2020 10:28:22
>> CEST)
>>>
>>> Skyler Hawthorne wrote:
>>> > Sorry if this sounds harsh, but I think using any funds at all to
>>> > continue support for a tool that 1% of editors use would be wasteful.
>>> > Flash is, for all intents and purposes, a dead technology. This
>>> > money is better spent on other uses.
>>>
>>> The entire point is to move away from a dead technology (Flash Player)
>>> to a supported one (AIR).
>>>
>>> On the percentage stat, it's worth bearing in mind that the P2 project
>>> is by a long chalk the smallest sum (€2500) of the three that OSMF is
>>> proposing here. As a point of comparison, iD was initially developed with a
>>> $575,000 grant from the Knight Foundation in 2012, so roughly $646,000 now.
>>> Very conservatively estimating the cost of employing 1-2 developers to code
>>> on iD since then, you get a development cost of roughly €0.004 per (2020)
>>> changeset for iD vs $0.0002 for P2, which is kind of fun.
>>>
>>> (I'm actually pleasantly surprised that P2 still has so many changesets
>>> - 20 million last year, and I'm guessing high teens this year - given how
>>> difficult it is to get Flash Player running in most browsers these days.
>>> That suggests that P2's users are using it because they want to do so, not
>>> because they are magically unaware of the existence of other editors. I
>>> suspect if you could find another way of getting 20 million edits for €2500
>>> then we would snap your hand off.)
>>>
>>> Looking forward, and continuing the theme of ROI, the other benefit of
>>> the project is that it enables development work to continue on P2. The
>>> reason I have bid for funding for this, for the first time in 14 years of
>>> developing editors for OpenStreetMap, is that it will take a solid chunk of
>>> sustained work to do the AIR conversion and a bunch of other stuff I
>>> believe will make P2 more sustainable into the future, and there is a hard
>>> deadline for that sustained work (i.e. Flash Player switch-off at the end
>>> of the year). It's not a project that can just be done in evenings here and
>>> there. That enables further, unfunded developments in the future, and in
>>> turn I hope the 

Re: [OSM-talk] Heresy - pure discussion

[James]

POSTGRESQL with Gis extension has better performance than SQL Server
indexing coordinates/type(node, way, polygon, relation) as columns.

On Fri., Jul. 24, 2020, 7:01 p.m. John Whelan, 
wrote:

> Thank you Hartmut,
>
> my expertise is not in GIS databases so this is helpful to know.  My
> experience is much more to do with straight SQL databases doing none GIS
> work on a variety of platforms.
>
> Cheerio John
>
> Hartmut Holzgraefe wrote on 2020-07-24 18:49:
>
> On 25.07.20 00:16, Alexandre Oliveira wrote:
>
> Having said that the main advantage of SQL is
> it is a standard so you should be able to connect practically anything to
> it.
>
> That's not entirely true. SQL is a language but every database
> implements its own dialect, i.e., some query keywords implemented in
> MSSQL might not be available in MySQL/MariaDB and vice-versa.
>
>
>
> SQL is a "standard" only in so far as developers are somewhat
> interchangeable between products.
>
> There is nothing that prevents RDBMS implementations from adding
> features on top of the standard, and most of the standard features
> are optional anyway.
>
> E.g. the actual ISO SQL standard for stored procedures is only really
> implemented by IBM/DB2, MySQL and MariaDB, while all other RDBMS products
> implement their own procedure languages (and I can't even
> blame them, as the ISO SQL standard syntax feels as if it got
> stuck in the old BASIC days).
>
> The key question though would be: is MS SQL Server GIS support
> on par with PostGIS?
>
> My impression so far was that it provides just a little bit more
> than what the OGC 1.1 standard requires.
>
> That would put it in the same league as MySQL and MariaDB, maybe
> slightly ahead, but very far below what PostGIS provides.
>
> (Disclaimer: I'm working for MariaDB as a support engineer, and
> have been working for MySQL before, so I may a little bit biased.
> But even I would always recommend the PostgreSQL / PostGIS combo
> over MariaDB for all but the most basic GIS applications)
>
>
> --
> Sent from Postbox 
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Re: [Talk-GB] The curious case of USRN 20602512

[James Derrick]

Hi,

On 10/07/2020 11:27, Mark Goodge wrote:
So this is a bit of a warning, really, for the open mapping community. 
Although the open data release of USRN ids and coordinates is welcome, 
don't be tempted to look up street names on the street list published, 
with a restrictive licence, on https://www.findmystreet.co.uk and then 
copy them to our own data. Because it simply isn't reliable enough as 
a guide to actual usage, even if it is what the "official" name of the 
road may be. Stick to OS Open Data and local knowledge. 


Thanks - that's an interesting and informative tale about 'canonical' 
sources being sourced by human beings from complex and contradictory data.


Some years ago, I remember being rather surprised investigating 
differences between my own surveys and OS open data using ITO tools. 
After double checking the 'ground truth', OSM is closer to reality than 
OS in several places around my area - perhaps 3 diffs across a 45k 
population town (Cramlington, NE23).


Geography and human society is more complex with the same space being 
called many things over time, and by different groups.


How many small towns didn't have a 'High Street' until an OS surveyor 
first visited it and wrote a name down?


How many 19th century terraces originally had the buildings named, 
rather than the surrounding streets?


Working in telecoms, I understand the benefits of a UPRN / USRN, however 
as a geographer they still feel a bit like a more precise version of 
'High Street'.


I still added U*RN tags to my local area - like a 21st century alt_name 
tag! :-)



James
--
James Derrick
li...@jamesderrick.org, Cramlington, England
I wouldn't be a volunteer if you paid me...
https://www.openstreetmap.org/user/James%20Derrick


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Re: [Talk-ca] can I submit road data?

[James]

https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Import/Guidelines

Usually involves creating a wiki page like

https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Ottawa/Import/Plan

outlining that licensing isnt an issue and what tags would be
used(addr:housenumber and addr:street for address points) as well as
contigency for conflating against existing data

On Tue., Jul. 7, 2020, 5:11 p.m. Jason Carlson, 
wrote:

> Okay, I'll scrap the idea of importing roads - mostly because they are
> already there - just off skew but a dozen or more meters in many places. I
> wrote software to fix most of our issues in our area - maybe there is an
> API to do the same with OSM and I can volunteer some skills there.
>
> As a side note, what about point data. I have a bunch of rural addresses
> that I could upload as point data and it would be a lot easier to do the
> initial import at least if I can get a hold of those guidelines so I can
> set it up right the first time :) You know where I can find those?
>
>
> *Jason Carlson*
>
> IT/GIS Administrator
>
> *403.772.3793*
>
> *Starland County*
> *Morrin, AB  *
> *(403) 772-3793*
> *www.starlandcounty.com *
>
> *Our organization accepts no liability for the content of this email, or
> for the consequences of any actions taken on the basis of the information
> provided, unless that information is subsequently confirmed in writing. The
> content of this message is confidential. If you have received it by
> mistake, please inform us by an email reply and then delete the message. It
> is forbidden to copy, forward, or in any way reveal the contents of this
> message to anyone. *
>
>
> On Tue, Jul 7, 2020 at 2:16 PM stevea  wrote:
>
>> > Imports are quite the pain to try and do - there's a whole process in
>> place now to do them. It stems from the experience in the States of an
>> import more than a decade ago of the TIGER data (from the Census Bureau)
>> that is still being fixed after pretty large amounts of time working
>> through it.
>>
>> Major components of the USA's TIGER import included both road (highway=*)
>> and rail (railway=*).  This took place in 2007-8 with early-to-mid-2000s
>> data and resulted in OSM data which were (and still are in places) quite
>> problematic.  There have been many strategies and even renderers which aim
>> to address helping fix the massive amount of TIGER data that were imported,
>> yet it will likely take another decade (three?) to complete these
>> improvements — that's a lot of work.  This sort of "ongoing work to improve
>> an import" is common with earlier / older imports (especially when OSM had
>> little to no "official" guidelines to doing imports well).  Our Import
>> Guidelines go a long way towards remedying common problems associated with
>> imports from "lessons learned" in earlier ones, but imports are still both
>> controversial and often problematic.  However, there are excellent examples
>> of well done imports, usually with very carefully written Import
>> Guidelines, a good deal of community buy-in and consensus and often the
>> guidance of OSM volunteers who have experience with imports and can steer
>> the process in better directions if they begin to go awry.  I don't need to
>> say it, but Kevin is correct:  let TIGER be a lesson to OSM about imports,
>> especially those done at very wide (national) scales in large geographic
>> areas like Canada or USA.  They are challenging to do well, but shouldn't
>> be completely prohibited, but rather done quite carefully and slowly.
>>
>> SteveA
>> California
>
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Re: [Talk-ca] NRCan lakes

[James]

I don't think canvec is updating these things on a regular basis, OSM after
corrections are usually more accurate than canvec anyways and doubt would
update data from Canvec to fix outdated data

On Tue., Jul. 7, 2020, 11:27 a.m. Hannes Röst,  wrote:

> Dear Adam and Daniel
>
> Thanks a lot, so this answers the question that these are import artefacts
> and not intended. One question still remains, namely whether we should
> clean them up and how (joining ways makes sense from the OSM data model but
> may make a future update based on CANVEC files much harder while adding all
> ways into a relation would preserve the import but the resulting shape will
> look funny). My instinct is still to fix the ways unless there is a strong
> reason against this. One reason I ran into this was trying to match OSM to
> Wikidata items and of course having 3 ways all called the same name makes
> this difficult. Let me know what you think
>
> Another issue I found was with nodes such as these: 1279897592, 1279898654
> and 1279896951 which also seem to come from an import (see [1] for overpass
> query). I am not sure whether these are duplicate imports or whether they
> are supposed to indicate the extent of a feature (most east and most
> western point) of the channel. The wiki indicates to either map this as
> "natural=strait" and use either a single node, a line or a multipolygon [2]
> but not as multiple nodes with the same name. Honestly, in this case its a
> bit hard to see where the supposed "channel" should be, but connecting the
> nodes to a line would seem sensible here to me, any thoughts?
>
> Best
>
> Hannes
>
> [1]
> http://overpass-turbo.eu/map.html?Q=%5Bout%3Ajson%5D%5Btimeout%3A25%5D%3B%0A(%0A%20%20node%5Bname%3D%22Devil%20Island%20Channel%22%5D%3B%0A)%3B%0Aout%20body%3B%0A%3E%3B%0Aout%20skel%20qt%3B
> [2] https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:natural%3Dstrait#How_to_map
>
>
> Gesendet: Dienstag, 07. Juli 2020 um 09:56 Uhr
> Von: "Adam Martin" 
> An: "Hannes Röst" 
> Cc: "Talk-CA OpenStreetMap" 
> Betreff: Re: [Talk-ca] NRCan lakes
>
> As mentioned by Daniel, this is due to the nature of the CANVEC data
> import.  CANVEC shapefile data is based on tiles and these will chop
> practically anything into pieces - lakes are just ones of the more
> noticeable.  I have corrected some of these myself as I've come across
> them.  Just be careful in cases where the lake pieces are part of different
> relations in the area - you will need to adjust those to make sure nothing
> breaks.
>
> Adam
>
> On Tue, Jul 7, 2020 at 2:33 AM Hannes Röst  hannesro...@gmx.ch]> wrote:Hello
>
> I am a contributor from Toronto and I have a question regarding how to
> treat some of the CanVec 6.0 - NRCan imports, specifically for lakes.
> I came across this lake here:
>
>
> https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/69275451[https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/69275451]
> https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/69277932
> https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/69745752
>
> Which is strangely split up into 3 parts and I wonder how to proceed:
> should we fix this and create a single way out of these 3 parts or is
> it beneficial (for comparison to future NRCan database entries) to
> keep them that way and create a relation out of the three? Also, does
> somebody know why the NRCan dataset does this, is this an import
> artefact (splitting into tiles?) and should be corrected when encountered
> or is it part of the original dataset?
>
> Best
>
> Hannes Rost
>
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Re: [Talk-ca] (no subject)

[James]

If it becomes over 2000 nodes in a single "way" or shape, it's recommended
to make it a multipolygon. The reason NRCan does this is probably because
it's on the edge of what they call "NTS Tiles" which is a grid that
organizes the data (see forests in Canada
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Canada#What.27s_with_the_forests_in_Canada.3F).
Importers just didnt join them back in the day, that's all

On Tue, Jul 7, 2020 at 5:02 AM Hannes Röst  wrote:

> Hello
>
> I am a contributor from Toronto and I have a question regarding how to
> treat some of the CanVec 6.0 - NRCan imports, specifically for lakes.
> I came across this lake here:
>
> https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/69275451
> https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/69277932
> https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/69745752
>
> Which is strangely split up into 3 parts and I wonder how to proceed:
> should we fix this and create a single way out of these 3 parts or is
> it beneficial (for comparison to future NRCan database entries) to
> keep them that way and create a relation out of the three? Also, does
> somebody know why the NRCan dataset does this, is this an import
> artefact (splitting into tiles?) or is it part of the original
> dataset?
>
> Best
>
> Hannes Rost
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Re: [OSM-talk] Facebook acquires crowdsourced mapping company Mapillary

[James]

Might want to refine your searching skills:

https://github.com/openstreetcam/openstreetcam.org/issues/254

On Fri., Jun. 19, 2020, 9:21 a.m. Mateusz Konieczny via talk, <
talk@openstreetmap.org> wrote:

>
>
>
> Jun 19, 2020, 08:58 by f...@zz.de:
>
> On Fri, Jun 19, 2020 at 01:21:59AM +0200, Niels Elgaard Larsen wrote:
>
> Paul Johnson:
> > Great.  How's this affect those of us who trust Facebook about as far as
> we can throw it?
>
>
> Use openstreetcam
>
>
> Openstreetcam is pretty much "disfunct" from my perspective. There are
> tons of bugs people opened because of their tracks not beeing
> processing. Same for me. Twitter feed dead for a year. It looks pretty
> much abandoned since end of 2019 - Since early June serious problems
> processing tracks and uploads.
>
> Can you link some of this bugs?
>
> I found https://github.com/openstreetcam but I see nothing about blocked
> processing.
>
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/OpenStreetCam is not describing is as
> dying, what
> should be changed if it is becoming defunct
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Re: [OSM-talk] Facebook acquires crowdsourced mapping company Mapillary

[James]

Openstreetcam was transferred to grab taxi, images have stopped processing
and devs say they are working on back end but project seems dead

On Thu., Jun. 18, 2020, 7:27 p.m. Paul Johnson,  wrote:

> Doesn't OpenStreetCam have similar corporate ownership problems, with the
> additional problematic aspect that the toolchain's been neglected since
> Telenav cut 'em loose?
>
> On Thu, Jun 18, 2020 at 6:23 PM Niels Elgaard Larsen 
> wrote:
>
>> Paul Johnson:
>> > Great.  How's this affect those of us who trust Facebook about as far
>> as we can throw it?
>>
>>
>> Use openstreetcam
>>
>>
>> Start downloading all you images from Mapillary, if you did not keep a
>> copy-
>>
>>
>> But I think most important, use existing Mapillary photos to improve OSM
>> with speed
>> limits, surfaces, lit, etc.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> >
>> > On Thu, Jun 18, 2020 at 5:37 PM Sérgio V. > > > wrote:
>> >
>> >
>> https://uk.reuters.com/article/us-facebook-deals-mapillary/facebook-acquires-crowdsourced-mapping-company-mapillary-idUKKBN23P3N6
>> >
>> >
>> > - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
>> >
>> > Sérgio - http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/smaprs
>> >
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Re: [OSM-talk] [Talk-us] fake, edit, fake map.

[James]

as have I, I don't live it Africa, made edits there, I certainly don't live
in North Korea, made edits there, I don't live in Florida, made edits
there. What's your point being 100miles away? Some of these places I have
visited, some I haven't

On Tue., Jun. 16, 2020, 1:54 p.m. Hauke Stieler, 
wrote:

> I made edits from 2000km away from where I live. But I was there on
> vacation. It's possible that these editors were there, even if they
> aren't locals ;)
>
> Just be happy about good edits in your region and talk to them if you
> have something to discuss.
>
> Hauke
>
> On 16.06.20 19:24, 80hnhtv4agou--- via talk wrote:
> > i am trying to make a point here about editors that are 100 of miles
> away.
> >
> >
> >
> > Tuesday, June 16, 2020 12:20 PM -05:00 from Clay Smalley
> > :
> >
> > Not sure what it is you're trying to point out here. Have you
> > started a conversation with the person who made that edit?
> >
> > On Tue, Jun 16, 2020 at 9:11 AM 80hnhtv4agou--- via Talk-us
> >  > >
> > wrote:
> >
> > Added a service road.
> >
> > Edited about  hours ago by
> >
> > Version #1 · Changeset #86698283
> >
> >
> > https://imgur.com/gallery/k6Zjnqm
> >
> >
> >
> >
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> >
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> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
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Re: [Talk-ca] WikiProject Canada Post - franchise assessment

[James]

if the addresses are not geolocated via say the website/google maps, it
just becomes public domain as it's the address of the business on the
website but IANAL. If not you would never be able to scrape/collect phone
numbers or addresses for any business via their official website.

On Tue., Jun. 16, 2020, 10:18 a.m. john whelan, 
wrote:

> I think you can use it to see where to look.
>
> If there is only one building and you can see a Canada Post logo
> floating around I think it is fair game.
>
> Canada Post is part of federal government so there is some sort of
> commitment to Open Data floating around under the Federal government's open
> data initiative.
>
> Cheerio John
>
> On Tue, Jun 16, 2020, 09:10 Justin Tracey  wrote:
>
>> Is it legal to import that data from the Canada Post site?
>>
>>  - Justin
>>
>> On Tue, Jun 16, 2020 at 8:04 AM David Nelson via Talk-ca <
>> talk-ca@openstreetmap.org> wrote:
>>
>>> I have just finished assessing which post offices in Canada among those
>>> we have not yet added to OSM are franchises, and which of those franchise
>>> outlets' parent businesses already appear in our database.  Those such
>>> locations are now marked in pale red on the project's spreadsheets.  The
>>> node for each such post office location just has to be positioned right
>>> next to its respective parent business.  You can determine what each parent
>>> business is by looking on Canada Post’s own website, or by doing a simple
>>> web search for the postal code of each such outlet.  With this, we are in a
>>> position to immediately add nearly 700 more Canada Post outlets across the
>>> country to OSM.  This would bring the progress of this project to a
>>> completion measure of just under 48 percent.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> - David E. Nelson
>>>
>>> 
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Re: [Talk-ca] Business data in northern Montreal

[James]

Man when you're north of the 25 in Montreal, it's either because you live
there or you are on your way to Québec City. Not a lot going on in the
northern tip of the island

On Sun., Jun. 14, 2020, 4:43 a.m. David Nelson via Talk-ca, <
talk-ca@openstreetmap.org> wrote:

> As part of my efforts to advance WikiProject Canada Post, I noticed that
> the portion of the Island of Montreal north of Autoroute 25 is missing
> quite a bit of business data.  When looking through our database for
> businesses that act as franchises for Canada Post outlets, I was not able
> to find more than half of them in the aforementioned part of Montreal.  Is
> it possible that any active mappers in that part of the city could go out
> and improve OSM's business coverage there?
>
>
>
> - David E. Nelson
>
> 
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Re: [OSM-talk] [Talk-us] Google earth, Google maps

[James]

also there's a ruler in JOSM

On Sat., Jun. 13, 2020, 11:45 a.m. Mateusz Konieczny via talk, <
talk@openstreetmap.org> wrote:

> If you were not copying Google Maps then why you were using the ruler?
>
> Why using ruler on Google Maps would be even necessary?
>
> Jun 13, 2020, 17:31 by talk@openstreetmap.org:
>
> i put them as a source i used a ruler on there map.
>
>
>
> Saturday, June 13, 2020 10:20 AM -05:00 from Mateusz Konieczny via talk <
> talk@openstreetmap.org>:
>
>
>
>
> Jun 13, 2020, 16:59 by eric.lad...@gmail.com:
>
> Yeah, be careful with Google Maps.  It's owned and created by a company
> and if you copy from it and they can prove it, they could sue the OSM
> Foundation into oblivion.  They used to even have their OWN satellites to
> obtain imagery.  That's serious money.
>
> That is not the main problem. Main problem is that it goes our own
> fundamental rules.
> Mappers must not use other maps* even if whoever hold copyright is unable
> to sue for some reason.
>
> And "they can prove it" part may be misleading - you are not allowed to
> copy even if you think that
> you can hide the copying so that noone will notice it.
>
> *that is more complicated, we are must not copyrighted data on
> incompatible licenes -
> but if you are unsure what it means do not use other maps and ask for help
> before doing this
>
>
> Typically, with local edits, I put "Local knowledge" as the source.
> Sounds more highbrow than "my eyeballs".
>
> I usually put survey/memory depending on how recent my data is.
>
> IMO, if somebody is challenging one of your local edits, if they are not
> local also, they should be told as much and sent on their way - UNLESS it's
> something that relates to a mapping standard or best practice.  Then, learn
> from your mistakes and move on.
>
> +1
>
> On Sat, Jun 13, 2020 at 9:32 AM 80hnhtv4agou--- via Talk-us <
> talk...@openstreetmap.org> wrote:
>
> this was a tool on the map that measured distance.
>
> Have you copied that map? I am unsure how the distance measuring tool
> relates to "why are you telling me I can not use google as a map source"?
>
>
>
> Saturday, June 13, 2020 9:29 AM -05:00 from Mateusz Konieczny via Talk-us <
> talk...@openstreetmap.org>:
>
> You are not allowed to use Google Maps as source.
>
> Have you used Google Maps to edit OSM?
>
> "since all the maps on OSM are old news like in my local area 7 months
> old."
>
> FYI, world is larger than your local area.
>
>
> Jun 13, 2020, 16:08 by talk...@openstreetmap.org:
>
> If you people want me to prove my edit by adding a source, and a person
> from the data group as an editor,
>
> asks me to prove it, and i redo my edit and he does not get back to me,
> why are you telling me I can not use
>
> google as a map source, since all the maps on OSM are old news. like in my
> local area 7 months old.
>
>
>
>
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Re: [OSM-talk] Could/should editors detect/disallow huge changeset bboxes?

[James]

No they shouldn't, mapping roads in northern Canada, your bbox can become
quite large quickly as mapping logging roads/dirt roads is quick and easy,
but span over multiple kms

On Fri., Jun. 12, 2020, 11:10 a.m. ndrw,  wrote:

> On 12/06/2020 15:32, 80hnhtv4agou--- via talk wrote:
> > I am confused,
> > are you telling me being in chicago, where i can go to the place i am
> > editing, not relying on satellite view
> > which is behind by at least 7 month or more here, i should be messing
> > around in London.
>
>
> Yes, you can map anywhere you want. There are no rules forbidding that,
> and there are projects like HOT that are mostly based on armchair mapping.
>
> Like with any edits, start with low risk/high impact changes (e.g.
> adding contents to poorly mapped areas), map only what you can see in
> the imagery, follow local conventions and listen to more experienced
> mappers.
>
> More guidelines: https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Armchair_mapping
>
> Ndrw
>
>
>
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Re: [OSM-talk] CyclOSM Lite a new cycling infrastructure map layer

[James]

and if pedestrians are allowed on it:

highway=path
segregated=no

On Tue., May 26, 2020, 9:58 a.m. Dave F via talk, 
wrote:

>
>
> On 26/05/2020 09:19, Hartmut Holzgraefe wrote:
> >
> > sorry, my fault, it is bicycle_road=yes in addition to highway=*
> > (usually residential)
> >
> > and it isn't a cycleway as it is a regular road that is either blocked
> > for most motor vehicles,
>
> Then that's a cycleway. Irrelevant of construction (width, surface,
> kerbs, drainage) if only bike riders are allowed along it, then it's a
> cycleway.
>
> >   or -- unfortunately more common -- that motor
> > vehicles may also use, but with bicycles having priority.
>
> There's no mention of that on the English wiki page. Looks more like a
> standard residential road with 'drivers be aware - there are cyclists
> about.
>
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Re: [OSM-talk] mspray stealth organized mapping

[James Nyirenda]

Greetings. I am one of the coordinators for the mSpray organized mapping.
We are aware of the issues that have been raised and we are working on them.

James
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Re: [OSM-talk] mspray stealth organized mapping

[James]

>If the person doing the editing is just a geography student going through
the motions for a course credit it's less likely to, I agree.

Or a Comms class at a certain university 臘‍♂️ We are still trying to clean
that mess up in Ottawa

On Fri., May 22, 2020, 6:52 p.m. Andy Townsend,  wrote:

> On 22/05/2020 23:37, Mateusz Konieczny via talk wrote:
>
>
>
>
> May 22, 2020, 16:58 by ajt1...@gmail.com:
>
> No-one has left any changeset discussion comments:
>
> In part because bothering someone who is victim of poorly organized
> group editing is unlikely to work well.
>
> It depends on how engaged they are, I guess.  I have had occasional
> successes with a "take me to your leader" approach on occasions in the
> past.  If the person doing the editing is just a geography student going
> through the motions for a course credit it's less likely to, I agree.
>
> Best Regards,
>
> Andy
>
>
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Re: [OSM-talk] our Q site help.openstreetmap.org is dying

[James]

Has the code base diverged from OSQA? If we were to submit changes would we
need to provide source code as the original code is GPL3?

On Wed., May 20, 2020, 4:25 p.m. Tobias Wrede,  wrote:

> Am 20.05.2020 um 21:32 schrieb Frederik Ramm:
> >
> > We've taken great care to write our replies in a generic fashion where
> > possible, with the aim of collecting knowledge that others can profit
> > from (instead of asking the same question over and over again).
> >
> > Not copying past answers, at least the last two years or so, would mean
> > we'd have to write all these answers again because the questions will
> > inevitably be asked.
> >
> > I think it would be rather disrespectful to those who have invested a
> > lot of time into building a good body of knowledge in the old system to
> > say "let's throw away this content, main thing is we get a shiny new
> > system". And the alternative of having to keep the old system around in
> > a read-only fashion is not super attractive either.
>
> Hi Frederik,
>
> I'm myself among the more frequent contributors on the site. I'm not
> saying to throw everything away and would appreciate if one could still
> refer to the the old answers. But considering how long this issue has
> been hanging in the air without resolution I would favor a practical way
> over one that will let us wait another few years before something
> happens. In my view it should be possible to leave the old site in a
> read only state and start a new site from zero. We could still link to
> answers on the archived site. Of course I'd welcomed if there was a
> reasonably fast way of moving and migrating all the old Q
>
> Tobias
>
>
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Re: [Talk-ca] Ça reste ouvert

[James]

Personellement  je trouve ça vraiement innutile, car dans 4 mois ou
presque, ces tags seront désuets et grossira la db pour rien. Il serait
plus simple de prendre les reglements tel que pharmacie ou épicerie et les
combiner avec les tags OSM tel que amenity=pharmacy et faire du post
processing avec une db à part.

Je ne supporte aucunement cette effort

On Fri., Apr. 10, 2020, 7:29 a.m. Pierre-Léo Bourbonnais, 
wrote:

> J'appuie à 100%
>
> Envoyé de mon iPhone
>
> Le 9 avr. 2020 à 20:22, Pierre Béland via Talk-ca <
> talk-ca@openstreetmap.org> a écrit :
>
> 
> En quelques semaines,  la communauté OSM-France a débuté le projet de
> carte Ça reste ouvert et traduit en plusieurs langues.  Une application
> Android est aussi développée. Et l'application permet de se connecter à OSM
> et ajouter des données.
>
> https://www.caresteouvert.fr/@48.854628,2.424893,13.48
> https://github.com/osmontrouge/caresteouvert
>
> Plus de 20 000 objets ont été édités en France seulement. Puis plusieurs
> pays ont été ajoutés : Allemagne, Suisse, Espagne, Andorre.
>
> Si des contributeurs canadiens sont intéressés à l'ajout du Canada au
> projet, ce serait l'occasion de faire la promotion d'OSM au Canada et
> d'ajouter rapidement de nombreux POI de commerces et producteurs locaux.
> Dans chaque province, nous pourrions faire la promotion du projet et
> inviter à participer.
>
> Je vois plusieurs projets organisés rapidement au Québec, mais je pense
> que si nous réagissons rapidement et ajoutons des commerces, cela pourrait
> susciter un intérêt pour utiliser OpenStreetMap.
>
> Qu'en pensez-vous?
>
> Pierre
>
>
> [OSMBC] WN507 changed: Ça reste ouvert | The map of open places during
> lockdown
> Yahoo/Boîte récept.
>
>-
>
> os...@openstreetmap.de 
> À :pierz...@yahoo.fr
> jeu. 9 avr. à 19 h 03
> Change in article of WN507
>
> Article Ça reste ouvert | The map of open places during lockdown
>  was changed by Claas
> Augner
> collection was changed
>
> https://www.bleibtoffen.de/ https://www.bleibtoffen.ch/
> https://www.bleibtoffen.at/ https://www.caresteouvert.fr/
> https://github.com/osmontrouge/caresteouvert_android
> https://apps.apple.com/app/ça-reste-ouvert/id1506199151
> https://taginfo.geofabrik.de/europe/france/keys/opening_hours%3Acovid19
> https://github.com/osmontrouge/caresteouvert/issues/new/choose
> markdownEN was changed
>
> Ça reste ouvert, the map of open places during the COVID-19 lockdown, has
> collected opening hours in France [for almost 20,000 objects](
> https://taginfo.geofabrik.de/europe/france/keys/opening_hours%3Acovid19)
> within three weeks. The French community collaborates with several
> communities and has added new countries to the map: Germany, Switzerland
> and Austria (as ["Bleibt offen"](https://www.bleibtoffen.de/)) as well as
> Spain and Andorra. Their GitHub repository provides [an issue template](
> https://github.com/osmontrouge/caresteouvert/issues/new/choose) to
> request coverage for your country. The French service provider TransWay has
> [published](https://apps.apple.com/app/ça-reste-ouvert/id1506199151) a
> mobile app for iOS. Eric Afenyo is [developing](
> https://github.com/osmontrouge/caresteouvert_android) one for Android.
>
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Re: [Talk-ca] Tagging sidewalks as separate ways and issues with bicycle routing

[James]

I mapped most the sidewalks in Ottawa with another person and we did it as
part of the community, no strings attached.

On Fri., Apr. 3, 2020, 4:26 p.m. Martin Chalifoux via Talk-ca, <
talk-ca@openstreetmap.org> wrote:

> Nate, when reading this and other comments I try to figure who puts those
> sidewalks in and to the benefit of what users. From what I can see it is
> being done by university groups essentially, not the community. The
> beneficiaries are organizations that funds those groups with strings
> attached, essentially buying a service. The OSM mass of end-users is not it
> appears the beneficiary but rather a very small group of people. I thus ask
> very honestly are the universities hijacking OSM to execute their research
> projects just because it is there, free and easily usable ? Are OSM users
> ever a concern ? With regards to this specific sidewalk mapping effort I
> really have a hard time figuring how a mainstream OSM user, through the
> site or a mobile app, benefits in any way from this added layer or
> complexity. I tend to think to the contrary is makes the map overly
> complex, add information nobody will ever care about, render the experience
> cumbersome, that with no tangible gain. If that was the case I don’t think
> that would be right.
>
> I don’t mean this to be inflammatory but just an honest questioning.
>
> On Apr 3, 2020, at 15:14, Nate Wessel  wrote:
>
> I used to be opposed to sidewalk mapping, and I still think it is often
> done poorly. I've changed my mind in the last year or two though. When I
> first moved into my current neighborhood and started mapping the area, I
> hated at all the poorly drawn sidewalks. They weren't well aligned, they
> didn't do anything to indicate crossings, and they were far from complete.
> For a while I was temped to delete the lot of them, but instead worked to
> gradually fix them up, noted marked or signalized crossings, added in
> traffic islands, pedestrian barriers etc.
>
> Once you have a high-quality, relatively complete mapping of sidewalks, I
> really think they add a lot of value. You can see where sidewalks end,
> where crossings are absent, how long crossings are, whether there is
> separation from other traffic by e.g. fence or bollards.
>
> It's not just about routing. Sidewalks (and crossings) are infrastructure
> in their own right and deserve to be mapped as such, at least in many dense
> urban areas, and especially where they vary significantly from street to
> street. I'm not saying it should be done everywhere, but it definitely does
> have value in some places.
>
> Best,
>
> Nate Wessel, PhD
> Planner, Cartographer, Transport Nerd
> NateWessel.com 
> On 2020-04-03 2:49 p.m., Frederik Ramm wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
> On 4/3/20 19:45, Martin Chalifoux via Talk-ca wrote:
>
> This morning I checked some large cities namely New-York, Paris, Amsterdam, 
> London, Berlin. Since OSM is best developed in Europe these capitals make 
> sense. I just checked Tokyo, Shangai, Seoul, Sydney to sample Asia. None of 
> them have this sidewalk mapping as separate ways.
>
> There are pockets here and there in Europe as well. Mostly what happens
> is this:
>
> 1. Someone wants to make a cool pedestrian/wheelchair/schoolkid routing
> project
>
> 2. The person or team has limited programming capability or budget, and
> hence must attack the problem with a standard routing engine
>
> 3. Standard routing engines do not have the capability to infer a
> sidewalk network from appropriately tagged streets (i.e. even if the
> street has a tag that indicates there's sidewalks left and right, the
> routing engine will not generate individual edges and hence cannot do
> something like "follow left side of X road here, then cross there, then
> follow right side" or so
>
> 4. Hence, tons of sidewalks (and often also pseudo-ways across plazas)
> are entered into OSM, to "make the routing work".
>
> (5. often people will then find that the routing engine generates
> instructions like "follow unnamed footway for 1 mile" which leads them
> to copy the road's name onto the sidewalk geometry... to "make the
> routing work").
>
> (6. In some countries a pedestrian is allowed to cross a street
> anywhere. Happily I haven't yet encountered people cris-crossing the
> streets with footway connections to "make the routing work" in these
> countries. If you're in a country where you are only allowed to cross at
> marked crossings then that is easier.)
>
> All this is a sad state of affairs; if we had routing engines that could
> work well with simple "sidewalk" tags (and also make standard
> assumptions about which road types in which countries would usually have
> sidewalks even if not explicitly tagged), then we could save ourselves a
> *lot* of separately mapped sidewalks that really do not add valuable
> information, and just serve as crutches for routing engines.
>
> Personally I am very much opposed to the separate mapping of 

Re: [Talk-ca] Tagging sidewalks as separate ways and issues with bicycle routing

[James]

For example: Toronto has a bylaw if you are over 14 years old, you are not
allowed to ride bike ever on sidewalk, if you are 14 and under and feel
unsafe on road, you are allowed

At a certain point you need to use your judgement and know local laws

On Fri., Apr. 3, 2020, 11:37 a.m. Justin Tracey,  wrote:

> I was assuming cyclists can figure out a turn indication onto a sidewalk
> should instead be interpreted as onto the adjacent street; maybe that's
> more difficult than I'd assumed.
>
> The Region of Waterloo allows bicycles on sidewalks in some situations,
> but I believe at least most of the constituent cities in it do not. In any
> case, it's certainly not provincial law for Ontario.
>
> On Fri, Apr 3, 2020 at 3:16 PM Martin Chalifoux <
> martin.chalif...@icloud.com> wrote:
>
>> When you follow a route with a riding app, you get turn prompts that are
>> then incorrect because a sidewalk is selected rather than the street. The
>> route is not just a line on a map, it becomes a set of turn-by-turn
>> directions eventually.
>>
>> What cities allow cycling on sidewalks anyway, seriously ? This sounds so
>> inadequate. That it is tolerated is one thing, but outright legal or
>> encouraged ? Makes no sense to me.
>>
>> On Apr 3, 2020, at 11:11, Justin Tracey  wrote:
>>
>> iD leaves all access tags undefined for sidewalks by default, what you're
>> seeing are the *implied* values (specifically, highway=footway implies
>> motor_vehicle=no, but does not make any implication about bicycle=*; scroll
>> down to the raw tags and you'll see both are left undefined). The reason
>> sidewalks cannot imply bicycle=no is that's not true in all legal
>> jurisdictions. The question is then whether routing engines should take
>> legal jurisdiction into account when deciding the default value for
>> bicycle=*, the way they do for maxspeed=*. The problem is that maxspeed=*
>> has defaults on a uniform provincial granularity, but bicycle=* has an
>> arbitrary granularity (any particular sidewalk could be subject to federal,
>> provincial, regional, or city laws).
>>
>> Personally, my approach has been noting when routing engines are taking
>> advantage of sidewalks they shouldn't be able to, and tagging those. Most
>> sidewalks run parallel to roads, and I assume cyclists/data consumers know
>> the respective rules they should be following, even if the routing engine
>> doesn't.
>>
>> On Fri, Apr 3, 2020 at 2:51 PM Martin Chalifoux via Talk-ca <
>> talk-ca@openstreetmap.org> wrote:
>>
>>> Maybe the issue is that in ID and I assume that is the Canadian default
>>> value, the bicycle access tag is left undefined. Why isn’t that tag
>>> defaulted to no as it is for cars ? Then an explicit yes tag can be added
>>> only to the odd place where cycling on a sidewalk is allowed. We are
>>> talking routing engines here, not the kid that plays on the street.
>>>
>>> On Apr 3, 2020, at 10:46, Nate Wessel  wrote:
>>>
>>> Which routing engines are causing problems exactly? Routing a bicycle on
>>> a sidewalk may be appropriate/reasonable in some cases and over short
>>> distances where one could be instructed to dismount and walk. I'd be
>>> interested to see some of the problematic routes that are being suggested
>>> to see if there isn't a more elegant way of resolving this.
>>>
>>> I personally only use explicit access tags where there is clear signage
>>> indicating some type of special access restriction. Otherwise the default
>>> should be assumed. Routing engines *should* be able to accommodate
>>> region differences in default values without needing to manually tag
>>> millions of ways. Whether they can or do allow that is a problem for the
>>> people developing the routing engines.
>>>
>>> Nate Wessel, PhD
>>> Planner, Cartographer, Transport Nerd
>>> NateWessel.com <https://www.natewessel.com/>
>>> On 2020-04-03 10:39 a.m., John Whelan wrote:
>>>
>>> I'd recommend bicycle=no and I live in Ottawa.  In Ottawa footpaths that
>>> connect in general are bicycle=yes as they come under municipal regulation
>>> but a sidewalk on a highway comes under provincial legislation which bans
>>> bicycles on sidewalks.  Sparks street is fun I think you are not permitted
>>> to ride your bicycle but I'm unsure if this is provincial, municipal or it
>>> might even be NCC which is federal of course.
>>>
>>> In the UK they are banned by law but in certain cities the Chief
>>> Constable has s

Re: [Talk-ca] Tagging sidewalks as separate ways and issues with bicycle routing

[James]

I think OSRM for bicycles prefer roads to sidewalks as a base value. And
prefer cycleways even more than roads

On Fri., Apr. 3, 2020, 11:01 a.m. Nate Wessel,  wrote:

> I've been using OSRM a lot for bicycle routing in Toronto and haven't seen
> many route suggestions that I would consider terribly unreasonable.
> Sidewalks only ever appear at the start/end of a route because they may be
> slightly closer to the requested destination.
>
> Nate Wessel, PhD
> Planner, Cartographer, Transport Nerd
> NateWessel.com <https://www.natewessel.com>
> On 2020-04-03 10:51 a.m., Pierre-Léo Bourbonnais wrote:
>
> For our researches, we use the OSRM routing engine, in which the default
> profile for bicycle sets the footway to walking speed (5 km/h) instead of
> bicycle speed (around 15-20 km/h), which is the same as dismounting for
> routing purpose.
>
> On Apr 3, 2020, at 10:46, Nate Wessel  wrote:
>
> Which routing engines are causing problems exactly? Routing a bicycle on a
> sidewalk may be appropriate/reasonable in some cases and over short
> distances where one could be instructed to dismount and walk. I'd be
> interested to see some of the problematic routes that are being suggested
> to see if there isn't a more elegant way of resolving this.
>
> I personally only use explicit access tags where there is clear signage
> indicating some type of special access restriction. Otherwise the default
> should be assumed. Routing engines *should* be able to accommodate region
> differences in default values without needing to manually tag millions of
> ways. Whether they can or do allow that is a problem for the people
> developing the routing engines.
>
> Nate Wessel, PhD
> Planner, Cartographer, Transport Nerd
> NateWessel.com <https://www.natewessel.com/>
> On 2020-04-03 10:39 a.m., John Whelan wrote:
>
> I'd recommend bicycle=no and I live in Ottawa.  In Ottawa footpaths that
> connect in general are bicycle=yes as they come under municipal regulation
> but a sidewalk on a highway comes under provincial legislation which bans
> bicycles on sidewalks.  Sparks street is fun I think you are not permitted
> to ride your bicycle but I'm unsure if this is provincial, municipal or it
> might even be NCC which is federal of course.
>
> In the UK they are banned by law but in certain cities the Chief Constable
> has stated the law will not be enforced within the police force boundaries
> as a letter of interpretation.  It might be nice for Ottawa to do the same
> sometime but there again we have City of Ottawa police, OPP, RCMP and of
> course the PPS.
>
> Cheerio John
>
> James wrote on 2020-04-03 10:25 AM:
>
> I don't think it's more tagging for the renderer as much as it's being
> more specific(more data) to specify a abstract view: without knowledge of
> Canadian/Provincial/Municipal laws about biking on sidewalks.
>
> I think Montreal and Gatineau are more enforced as Ottawa it is illegal to
> bike on the sidewalk, but people are still doing it, but that's beside the
> point.
>
> On Fri., Apr. 3, 2020, 10:18 a.m. Pierre-Léo Bourbonnais via Talk-ca, <
> talk-ca@openstreetmap.org> wrote:
>
>> Hi!
>>
>> I would like to start a discussion on how we should deal with sidewalks
>> tagged separately, like it is is done in downtown Ottawa and like we are
>> starting to do in the Montreal region.
>>
>> The issue is that by default highway=footway with or without
>> footway=sidewalk should have an implicit bicycle=no by default according to
>> this page:
>> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/OSM_tags_for_routing/Access_restrictions
>>
>> However, some osm users told me I should tag them with bicycle=no
>> everywhere because routing engines use sidewalks for bicycle routing which
>> is illegal in most part of Canada.
>>
>> What are your thoughts on this ? Should we adapt to routing engines or
>> should routing engines fix the issue themselves?
>>
>> Thanks!
>>
>>
>> ___
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>> Talk-ca@openstreetmap.org
>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ca
>>
>
>
> ___
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>
>
> --
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>
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Re: [Talk-ca] Tagging sidewalks as separate ways and issues with bicycle routing

[James]

I don't think it's more tagging for the renderer as much as it's being more
specific(more data) to specify a abstract view: without knowledge of
Canadian/Provincial/Municipal laws about biking on sidewalks.

I think Montreal and Gatineau are more enforced as Ottawa it is illegal to
bike on the sidewalk, but people are still doing it, but that's beside the
point.

On Fri., Apr. 3, 2020, 10:18 a.m. Pierre-Léo Bourbonnais via Talk-ca, <
talk-ca@openstreetmap.org> wrote:

> Hi!
>
> I would like to start a discussion on how we should deal with sidewalks
> tagged separately, like it is is done in downtown Ottawa and like we are
> starting to do in the Montreal region.
>
> The issue is that by default highway=footway with or without
> footway=sidewalk should have an implicit bicycle=no by default according to
> this page:
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/OSM_tags_for_routing/Access_restrictions
>
> However, some osm users told me I should tag them with bicycle=no
> everywhere because routing engines use sidewalks for bicycle routing which
> is illegal in most part of Canada.
>
> What are your thoughts on this ? Should we adapt to routing engines or
> should routing engines fix the issue themselves?
>
> Thanks!
>
>
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Re: [talk-au] Question about houses

[James Cridland]

All awesome, thanks, folks. I'll ensure I do it right, then! :)

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On Sun, 29 Mar 2020 at 08:55, Warin <61sundow...@gmail.com> wrote:

> On 29/3/20 9:13 am, David Wales wrote:
>
> Realised that I replied directly, rather than to the list...
> Reply below:
>
> Hi James,
>
> If there is only one building at the address, I would merge the building
> and the address point.
> You can mark the entrance as described here:
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:entrance
>
> If there is more than one building, add a perimeter, and merge the address
> to that:
>
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Addresses#Multiple_buildings_for_one_housenumber
>
>
> If the other buildings are garages, garden sheds then I would still put
> the address on the house.
>
>
>
> Note that according to https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Addresses
> there are several options for tagging buildings with addresss, but the
> above are my preferred methods.
>
> Regards,
> David
>
> On 29/3/20 9:11 am, Dion Moult wrote:
>
> Hello James!
>
> FYI those addresses you see were likely created as part of the NSW address
> import project - that is why they are in the middle of the lot :) Please
> feel free to improve on its accuracy by merging it into an actual building!
>
> Dion Moult
>
>
> ‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐
> On Sunday, March 29, 2020 9:08 AM, Graeme Fitzpatrick
>   wrote:
>
> G'day James & welcome!
>
> Personally, I've always gone with either #3, with the address node at the
> driveway, or drawn the building & added the address details to that.
>
> Either way seems to work, in the they render, & also appear in an address
> search (at least on OSMand!)
>
> Good luck & have fun!
>
> Thanks
>
> Graeme
>
>
> On Sat, 28 Mar 2020 at 21:47, James Cridland  wrote:
>
>> Hello, folks - first time poster here, and (while I first edited OSM a
>> while ago) this my first time doing a lot of work in it to make it nicer.
>>
>> I'm adding the buildings around where I live. They're all individual
>> buildings, mainly houses. In my part of Australia we've address points,
>> which come from the local council. They're in the middle of the lot - not
>> necessarily in the middle of the building on the lot.
>>
>> Should I be:
>> 1. Adding the building outlines and moving the address points to the
>> centre of the building?
>> 2. Adding the building outlines and dropping the address point onto the
>> outline, so they're merged?
>> 3. Adding the building outlines and dropping the address point onto the
>> outline at the entrance, so they're merged?
>> 4. What the hell are you doing James, don't touch the address points?
>>
>> Looking at the renderer: if I do #3, that moves the street number to the
>> entrance of the property, which is quite helpful, especially for a building
>> on a corner.
>>
>> --
>> Tel/SMS/Signal/WhatsApp: +61 447 692743
>> Podnews <https://podnews.net/> · My radio trends newsletter
>> <https://james.crid.land/> · Speaking and consultancy
>> <https://james.cridland.net/>
>> Amazingly Brilliant Pty Ltd · ABN 30 612 913 514
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>>
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[talk-au] Question about houses

[James Cridland]

Hello, folks - first time poster here, and (while I first edited OSM a
while ago) this my first time doing a lot of work in it to make it nicer.

I'm adding the buildings around where I live. They're all individual
buildings, mainly houses. In my part of Australia we've address points,
which come from the local council. They're in the middle of the lot - not
necessarily in the middle of the building on the lot.

Should I be:
1. Adding the building outlines and moving the address points to the centre
of the building?
2. Adding the building outlines and dropping the address point onto the
outline, so they're merged?
3. Adding the building outlines and dropping the address point onto the
outline at the entrance, so they're merged?
4. What the hell are you doing James, don't touch the address points?

Looking at the renderer: if I do #3, that moves the street number to the
entrance of the property, which is quite helpful, especially for a building
on a corner.

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Re: [talk-au] Duplicate of the same airport

[Michael James]

It is a military base that allows civilian air traffic to use its runway.

As far as air traffic goes it's called Williamtown, only the civilian terminal 
area is called Newcastle airport. (28 hectares of land)

https://www.newcastleairport.com.au/corporate/about/board-governance

Hope that helps, though no map of that land parcel that they lease for the 
civilian side.

> -Original Message-
> From: cleary 
> Sent: Wednesday, 25 March 2020 6:29 PM
> To: OpenStreetMap 
> Subject: Re: [talk-au] Duplicate of the same airport
> 
> 
> 
> I think the air force base and civilian airport share the same runway but 
> they are
> two distinct entities with separate buildings etc. Same applies in some other
> cities including Canberra. I would defer to someone more knowledgeable but I
> think it remains appropriate to have two separate entities mapped in OSM.
> 
> 
> 
> On Wed, 25 Mar 2020, at 7:06 PM, Nemanja Bracko (E-Search) via Talk-au
> wrote:
> >
> > Hi,
> >
> >
> > There are two relations in OSM that are referring to the same airport:
> >
> >  * https://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/6263052
> >  * https://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/4145466
> > 
> >
> >
> > The first one has a *aeroway:aerodrome* tag, the second one has a
> > *military:airfield* tag.
> >
> >
> > I’m not sure should I merge these two relations since there are some
> > sporadic differences for the same tag in both relations. Please, I
> > need an extra hand on this.
> >
> >
> > This is an isolated case in whole Australia.
> >
> >
> > Thank you in advance,
> >
> > Nemanja
> >
> > ___
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> > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
> >
> 
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Re: [OSM-talk] Flashing school speed limit sign

[James]

https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:maxspeed:variable

?

On Wed., Mar. 11, 2020, 9:24 p.m. Jack Armstrong, 
wrote:

> How would this be tagged? I can't seem to find anything about this on the
> wiki. Perhaps I'm just not looking in the right place. Thanks.
>
>
> https://www.mapillary.com/app/?pKey=IOiHry5EPtSQ_3YoGQ4jGw=photo=39.7620490002=-104.9674159996=17=0.6324722779922073=0.6518280237656362=2
>
>
>
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Re: [Talk-ca] Importing buildings in Canada

[James]

Project #173. I've set you as an experienced mapper and you should be able
to see it.

http://tasks.osmcanada.ca/project/173

On Tue., Mar. 10, 2020, 1:05 p.m. Daniel @jfd553, 
wrote:

> Sounds good to me. Can we try it as if I don't have the data? I might then
> be able to clearly document the procedure in the wiki.
>
>
>
> Daniel
>
>
>
> *From:* James [mailto:james2...@gmail.com]
> *Sent:* Tuesday, March 10, 2020 10:38
> *To:* Daniel @jfd553
> *Cc:* Talk-CA OpenStreetMap
> *Subject:* Re: [Talk-ca] Importing buildings in Canada
>
>
>
> The task is setup in task manager, it was just more convenient serving
> data via the service. I can publish the task and invite those that have
> enough experience (they would need the orthoganalized data though) Which I
> could provide over slack(osm-ca.slack.com)
>
>
>
> On Tue., Mar. 10, 2020, 10:33 a.m. Daniel @jfd553, 
> wrote:
>
> Hi James,
>
> That is too bad, but there is no rush at this stage because we are simply
> refining the import procedure. In the meantime, I propose to act as “Task
> manager”. I can provide some tiles (task frame and orthogonalized
> buildings’ footprint) to those who wish to try the import procedure.
>
> I should start importing today with a first tile. If changes/additional
> information are needed to adjust the procedure, I suggest we discuss it on
> the import Talk page [1]
>
>
>
> Daniel
>
>
>
> [1]
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Talk:Canada_-_The_Open_Database_of_Buildings
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* James [mailto:james2...@gmail.com]
> *Sent:* Monday, March 09, 2020 20:13
> *To:* Daniel @jfd553
> *Cc:* talk-ca@openstreetmap.org
> *Subject:* Re: [Talk-ca] Importing buildings in Canada
>
>
>
> Ok so I have some bad news, the data.osmcanada.ca server that was being
> hosted by a friend on AWS was shutdown and wiped. I will need to get time
> to get things setup on another server to host the microinstance:
> https://github.com/osmottawa/micro-data-service
>
>
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Re: [Talk-ca] Importing buildings in Canada

[James]

The task is setup in task manager, it was just more convenient serving data
via the service. I can publish the task and invite those that have enough
experience (they would need the orthoganalized data though) Which I could
provide over slack(osm-ca.slack.com)

On Tue., Mar. 10, 2020, 10:33 a.m. Daniel @jfd553, 
wrote:

> Hi James,
>
> That is too bad, but there is no rush at this stage because we are simply
> refining the import procedure. In the meantime, I propose to act as “Task
> manager”. I can provide some tiles (task frame and orthogonalized
> buildings’ footprint) to those who wish to try the import procedure.
>
> I should start importing today with a first tile. If changes/additional
> information are needed to adjust the procedure, I suggest we discuss it on
> the import Talk page [1]
>
>
>
> Daniel
>
>
>
> [1]
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Talk:Canada_-_The_Open_Database_of_Buildings
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* James [mailto:james2...@gmail.com]
> *Sent:* Monday, March 09, 2020 20:13
> *To:* Daniel @jfd553
> *Cc:* talk-ca@openstreetmap.org
> *Subject:* Re: [Talk-ca] Importing buildings in Canada
>
>
>
> Ok so I have some bad news, the data.osmcanada.ca server that was being
> hosted by a friend on AWS was shutdown and wiped. I will need to get time
> to get things setup on another server to host the microinstance:
> https://github.com/osmottawa/micro-data-service
>
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Re: [Talk-ca] Importing buildings in Canada

[James]

Ok so I have some bad news, the data.osmcanada.ca server that was being
hosted by a friend on AWS was shutdown and wiped. I will need to get time
to get things setup on another server to host the microinstance:
https://github.com/osmottawa/micro-data-service

On Mon, Mar 2, 2020 at 7:00 PM Daniel @jfd553  wrote:

> Bonjour groupe :-)
>
> Since no one volunteered to be the local import manager for Squamish, I
> identified myself as such [1]. I have already contacted 22 local
> contributors I identified with Tim’s Overpass queries. I have modified the
> query to find users who have contributed buildings in the past 5 years. It
> is a GO for the two people who have answered me so far.
>
> I’ll wait others’ answer for the next two weeks and once the task will be
> set up (James is on it), I will start importing. I expect most of
> experienced JOSM users to also have a try in order to refine the import
> procedure.
>
>
>
> Daniel
>
>
>
> [1]
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Canada_-_The_Open_Database_of_Buildings#British_Columbia
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Re: [Talk-ca] Grand-Montréal Utilisation de sidewalk pour cartographier pistes multi-usage

[James]

Je said pas si c'est pareil les MUPs à mtl qu'Ottawa/Gatineau(asphalte avec
ligne jaune dedans), mais nous le taggeons comme ceci:

https://github.com/BikeOttawa/OSM-Bike-Ottawa-Tagging-Guide#Off-Road

highway =path

width =*
smoothness =*
segregated =no
surface =asphalt

centreline=yes

On Mon., Mar. 9, 2020, 1:05 p.m. Pierre Béland via Talk-ca, <
talk-ca@openstreetmap.org> wrote:

> Pour ceux d'entre-vous intéressés par la cartographie des pistes cyclables
> dans la région de Montréal,  Voir le changeset
> https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/775106882 que j'ai commenté. Jugez-vous
> souhaitable de demander à ce contributeur d'en discuter avec la communauté?
>
> Je doute que sidewalk soit approprié pour décrire les pistes
> multi-fonctionnelles adjacentes à la route. Tel qu'indiqué dans le
> changeset, le projet est de cartographier le grand-Montréal. Sur le
> boulevard Virginie-Roy a l'Île-Perrot, on observe une piste multi-fonction.
> Les attributs du chemin contiennent à la fois les attributs
> cycleway:left lane
> foot  use_sidepath
> oneway:bicycle no
> sidewalk   separate
> sidewalk:left no
> sidewalk:right  separate
>
>
> voir https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/775106882
>
>
> Pierre
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Re: [OSM-talk] Digital environmentalism

[James]

I do it whilst riding my bike now.

#PlanetSaved

On Tue., Feb. 25, 2020, 3:49 p.m. Brad Neuhauser, 
wrote:

> Maybe stretching, but what about Google driving cars around constantly to
> capture Street View images and road/POI data? Ideally, a lot of OSM data is
> gathered by people who are already in the area.
>
> On Tue, Feb 25, 2020 at 1:25 PM Philip Barnes 
> wrote:
>
>> OSM includes walking and cycling infrastructure thus promoting and
>> enabling  sustainable travel options.
>>
>> Gmaps is primarily a road map.
>>
>> Phil (trigpoint)
>>
>> On Tuesday, 25 February 2020, Mateusz Konieczny via talk wrote:
>> > There are many reasons to use OSM over Google Maps but
>> > "environmentally friendly" seems to not be one of them.
>> >
>> > One may try some very indirect things, like that Google Maps
>> > is primarily a place to display ads, therefore pushing consumerism,
>> > therefore environmentally unfriendly but...
>> >
>> > Maybe "OSM data is reusable, Google maps data is proprietary and
>> > other need to recreate it wasting resources" can be argued to
>> > be environment-related.
>> >
>> > Maybe "OSM data can be used for various purposes, including
>> > environment protection" can be argued.
>> >
>> >
>> > Feb 25, 2020, 09:28 by ge...@customercarewords.com:
>> >
>> > >
>> > > Hi,
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > I will be giving a series of talks this year at An Event Apart (>
>> https://aneventapart.com/> ). The talk title is “World Wide Waste,” and
>> will examine the impact digital is having on the environment and proposes
>> ways digital can be more environmentally friendly. I’d like to propose
>> OpenStreetMap as a more environmentally friendly option than Google Maps.
>> Can anyone help me with good arguments?
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > Best
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > Gerry
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> ***
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > Gerry McGovern +353 87 238 6136 > ge...@customercarewords.com>
>>  @gerrymcgovern  www.customercarewords.com
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> >
>> >
>>
>> --
>> Sent from my Sailfish device
>> ___
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>>
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Re: [talk-au] Gravel pits?

[Michael James]

As someone who drives a lot of country highways they are both temporary and 
permanent.



From: Sebastian S. 
Sent: Monday, 17 February 2020 11:11 AM
To: talk-au@openstreetmap.org; Graeme Fitzpatrick ; 
OSM-Au 
Subject: Re: [talk-au] Gravel pits?

Is this a temporary thing?

Or is this similar to sand boxes they (used to) have next to rail lines? (For 
traction in winter)

On 17 February 2020 10:14:47 am AEDT, Graeme Fitzpatrick 
mailto:graemefi...@gmail.com>> wrote:
What do we map gravel pits as? (Areas off the side of a main road, used by Dept 
of Transport Main Roads to dump gravel etc for road building / repairs)

Quarry seems a bit excessive!

Depot doesn't really cut-it either as there's nothing there except for a pile 
of dirt.

& is this another Aussie-only?

Thanks

Graeme
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Re: [Talk-ca] Importing buildings in Canada

[James]

if you have data and the extents I can setup tasks(send them to me somehow)

On Sat., Feb. 15, 2020, 5:07 p.m. Daniel @jfd553, 
wrote:

> Bonjour groupe,
>
> I should soon be able to feed the task manager with tiles containing no
> more than 200 buildings each.
>
>
>
> I will be using a Quadtree algorithm similar to what was used to split
> Canvec map sheets. The problem is that the algorithm creates tiles that
> keep the aspect ratio of the data bounding box. I am currently modifying
> the algorithm to generate square tiles instead, which is much more adapted
> for editing with JOSM.
>
>
>
> Daniel
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Re: [talk-au] A22 route Sydney

[Michael James]

A search for rms route numbers leads here

https://www.rms.nsw.gov.au/roads/using-roads/alpha-numeric/index.html

Sydney local map is here
https://www.rms.nsw.gov.au/roads/using-roads/alpha-numeric/regions.html#Sydney

Map shows A36 and A22 end on each other and do not continue past each other.

Confusion will arise as a search for rms listed highway gives this document

https://www.rms.nsw.gov.au/business-industry/partners-suppliers/lgr/documents/classified-roads-schedule.pdf

But if you read the start it mentions that the route numbers  DO NOT line up 
with named highways.

Michael



From: Aleksandar Matejevic (E-Search) via Talk-au 
Sent: Friday, 7 February 2020 11:42 PM
To: talk-au@openstreetmap.org
Subject: [talk-au] A22 route Sydney


I was checking A22 route in Sydney and found out some possible irregularity.

https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=17/-33.88462/151.19843

By looking at Wiki 
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_road_routes_in_New_South_Wales City Road 
- Broadway junction should be logical start of A22 route.

On the other hand https://www.ozroads.com.au/ suggest that is should start from 
Lee street, Pitt Street junction with George Street but no sign indicates this.

And, at the end, OSM has route start/end point at Broadway.

What is confusing is that there are two sings that shows that A22 continues 
further than junction with A36 route but just up to next junction (Broadway - 
Abercrombie Street).

The one in Broadway street is confusing because it points to City South, but if 
you go in that direction you will end up in Central Sydney. I just want to 
check what is the correct start point of A22 route.

Also, what is questionable is road classification from City Road - Broadway 
junction up to George Street Lee Street junction, because it does not look as 
trunk.

I have attached illustration of described problem so it is easier to get the 
picture of the problem: https://prnt.sc/qyxy5o

Best regards,
Aleksandar Matejevic

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Re: [OSM-talk] Teaching cyclists how to contribute to OSM

[James]

We also have dedicated cycle tracks to add to the confusion:

https://www.mapillary.com/app/?focus=photo=45.41377352470539=-75.713056=20=aNwoHXXX19B6XsfM97GQ8w=true=0.8339095891156436=0.5354200932515681=1.284687483303793

Where as a MUP looks like this:

https://www.mapillary.com/app/?focus=photo=45.4243885=-75.714667=14.869648415652668=LbETdVENoGfE_5iq_LrT8A=true=0.7464662949630482=0.47769975628963174=1.284687483303793

On Mon., Jan. 20, 2020, 7:13 a.m. Martin Koppenhoefer, <
dieterdre...@gmail.com> wrote:

>
>
> Am Mo., 20. Jan. 2020 um 12:43 Uhr schrieb Mike N :
>
>> On 1/20/2020 5:42 AM, James wrote:
>> > I've yet to see an officer stop a cyclist going too fast, general rule
>> > is don't be a dick and slow down when you see pedestrians and signal
>> > with a bell(bylaw) when passing them
>>
>> Here, the officer on patrol may choose to do speed limit enforcement
>> when it becomes a problem.   They generally issue a warning first, but
>> have issued tickets.
>
>
>
> I guess this is the exception, because most countries do not require
> facilities for speed measuring for bicycles, so even if they put a limit, I
> do not understand how they could issue a ticket for not respecting it,
> surely it could be contested, not?
>
> Cheers
> Martin
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Re: [OSM-talk] Teaching cyclists how to contribute to OSM

[James]

I'm pretty sure it's a combination of municipal and federal, some MUPs are
owned by a federal entity called the NCC(national capital commission) I've
always wondered how it was enforced as it's not required to have a
speedometer on your bike.

Officer: Do you know how fast you were going?
Cyclist: I literally do not as I don't have a speedometer

I've yet to see an officer stop a cyclist going too fast, general rule is
don't be a dick and slow down when you see pedestrians and signal with a
bell(bylaw) when passing them

On Mon., Jan. 20, 2020, 5:32 a.m. Maarten Deen,  wrote:

> On 2020-01-20 11:10, James wrote:
> > I find the path way of tagging like Germany & Italy more accurate,
> > because MUPs aren't favouring anyone, they are paths that can
> > accomodate cyclists, pedestrians equally and bikes are limited to
> > 20km/h on MUPs as they are not segregated from pedestrians
>
> Oh, interesting to know. In which jurisdictions? And how can the cyclist
> adhere to this since the average cyclist does not have a speedometer?
>
> Maarten
>
> >
> > On Mon., Jan. 20, 2020, 4:46 a.m. Alessandro Sarretta,
> >  wrote:
> >
> >> Hi,
> >>
> >> On 20/01/20 10:16, Maarten Deen wrote:
> >>> Normal practice in Germany is to make all shared cycle/footpaths
> >>> highway=path + bicycle=designated + foot=designated with an
> >> optional
> >>> segregated=yes/no.
> >>
> >> same situation in Italy (or, at least, in the area where I'm living:
> >>
> >> Padova and Veneto).
> >>
> >> Ale
> >>
> >> ___
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Re: [OSM-talk] Teaching cyclists how to contribute to OSM

[James]

I find the path way of tagging like Germany & Italy more accurate, because
MUPs aren't favouring anyone, they are paths that can accomodate cyclists,
pedestrians equally and bikes are limited to 20km/h on MUPs as they are not
segregated from pedestrians

On Mon., Jan. 20, 2020, 4:46 a.m. Alessandro Sarretta, <
alessandro.sarre...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi,
>
> On 20/01/20 10:16, Maarten Deen wrote:
> > Normal practice in Germany is to make all shared cycle/footpaths
> > highway=path + bicycle=designated + foot=designated with an optional
> > segregated=yes/no.
>
> same situation in Italy (or, at least, in the area where I'm living:
> Padova and Veneto).
>
> Ale
>
>
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Re: [OSM-talk] Teaching cyclists how to contribute to OSM

[James]

Bike advocacy group in Ottawa created this:

https://github.com/BikeOttawa/OSM-Bike-Ottawa-Tagging-Guide/blob/master/README.md

as well as a crowd sourced map like the one for winter bike trails that
allows a user to submit if a path is winter maintained or not, it will then
update OSM in the back end: maps.bikeottawa.ca

On Sat., Jan. 18, 2020, 5:56 p.m. Erwin Olario,  wrote:

> Hi Volker.
>
> In Manila, we are promoting this MapContrib instance [0]  to get bikers
> and mobility advocates to contribute bike-related facilities on the map.
>
> For mobile tools, we teach and recommend OsmAnd (mainly because of the
> OsmAnd live feature, which allows users to update the offline database
> immediately) , but in the end we aso tell them about other mobile tools
> (and the caveat about delays in the updates)
>
> [0]: bit.ly/mapthatrack
>
> On Sun, Jan 19, 2020, 05:43 Volker Schmidt  wrote:
>
>> Has anyone produced specific teaching material specifically to get
>> cyclists involved in OSM.
>> It should be suitable for a workshop approach.
>>
>> Volker
>> Italy
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Re: [Talk-ca] Importing buildings in Canada

[James]

I could set the task up to be seen only by validators+ which I then can sst
individual users as validators

On Thu., Jan. 16, 2020, 10:10 p.m. Tim Elrick,  wrote:

> I would assume in most cases the imported building footprint will be
> more precise than existing data. For me, this would be a reason to
> replace already existing objects. However, I think this is a case by
> case decision. However, I think it is important to keep tags and history
> of buildings already existent in OSM. This is how I would read/interpret
> the import guideline stated by Nate: "If you are importing data where
> there is already some data in OSM, then *you need to combine this data*
> in an appropriate way or suppress the import of features with overlap
> with existing data." (emphasis added by me)
>
> However, that just means, the import, hence, is nothing easy and could
> not be achieve quickly, I would assume. One way of making sure that this
> is dealt with diligently, would be setting the tasking manager to
> 'experienced mappers only'. We would have to ask James, who is in charge
> of the Canada Tasking Manager, how to edit/set up the 'experienced
> mapper role' in the TM. It might be possible to feed in a list of
> mappers manually or to set a threshold of objects/changesets that they
> must have entered in OSM. However, maybe only mappers who feel
> experienced enough to handle the import would contribute to the TM
> project anyway and we let everyone judge on their own and don't restrict
> access.
>
> If we were to separate the new and overlapping buildings, I am also
> leaning towards Daniel's assessment. I would be afraid to cause more
> issues than by doing it all at once (with a reasonable tile size, of
> course).
>
> In the end, the main point of importing this specific dataset fulfils
> two purposes, in my opinion: first, to add missing buildings (if it were
> just for this purpose we could also use the much bigger Microsoft
> dataset), second, to get the best geospatial representation possible in
> our OSM database. That means, we defer from using the Microsoft dataset
> and use the much higher quality data from the ODB. This also means that
> we should replace already existing buildings (yet keeping tags and
> history) wherever the ODB footprint is more precise than the existing one.
>
> Just my two cents here,
> Tim
>
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Re: [Talk-ca] FW: Re: Importing buildings in Canada

[James]

Just to let you know there is a maximum of geometry the tasking manager can
handle, I'm not exactly sure what it is, but I have encountered it before.
So try not to go too ham with the geometric shapes

On Wed., Jan. 15, 2020, 12:56 p.m. Daniel @jfd553, 
wrote:

> Thanks for the quick replies!
>
> Now, about...
>
> *a) Data hosting:*
>
> Thank you James, I really appreciate your offer (and that of others). So
> yes, I think hosting pre-processed data in the task manager, for approved
> regions, is an attractive offer. When we agree on a municipality for
> pre-processing, I will contact you to make the data available.
>
> BTW, I thought ODB data in OSM format was hosted with the OSMCanada task
> manager. I understand that ODB data are currently converted on the fly when
> requested?
>
> *b) Task manager work units for import:*
>
> I agree with Nate, ~ 200 buildings or ~ 1,500 nodes would be suitable. I
> was thinking at the same importation rate, but for an hour of work. It
> seems best to target 20-minute tasks.
>
> *c) Task manager work units for checking already imported data*
>
> According to Nate, it is definitely not faster than actively importing. We
> should then keep the above setup (b).
>
> However, what if I add a new tag to pre-processed data indicating if a
> building was altered or not by the orthogonalization (and simplification)
> process? For instance, *building:altered=no*, would identify buildings
> that were not changed by the process and that could be left unchanged in
> OSM (i.e. not imported); *building:altered=yes* for those who were
> changed by the process and that should be imported again. The same
> pre-processed datasets could then be made available for all cases. Thoughts?
>
> *d) Finding local mappers:*
>
> I agree with Nate’s suggestion to try contacting the top 10 mappers in an
> area. Using the "main activity center" would work for most of the
> contributors but selecting other overlays (.e.g. an activity center over
> last 6 months) could also work great. As long as we identify who might be
> interested in knowing there is an import coming.
>
> Comments are welcome, particularly about the proposal on c)
>
> Daniel
>
>
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Re: [Talk-ca] FW: Re: Importing buildings in Canada

[James]

Stats Can hosts it obviously. As for processed data, I can host it in the
tasking manager for approved regions.

On Wed., Jan. 15, 2020, 8:35 a.m. Daniel @jfd553, 
wrote:

> Bonjour Groupe,
>
> Concerning the proposal (ODB import), there are questions that remain
> before moving forward; here are some of them…
>
> a)  Who on this list host the ODB data? If pre-processing is
> required, how should we proceed to have the results made available
> (assuming I ran the pre-process)?
>
> b)  Nate mentioned that the working units (shapes) proposed by the
> task manager are customizable according to data density. So, how many
> buildings can be imported properly (i.e. following the procedure) in an
> hour or so? Would it be a good size to proceed?
>
> c)   There are areas where the data has already been imported. What
> would be the size of an import check task? I expect that a much larger
> number of buildings can be checked in an hour or so, but by how much (10x)?
>
> d)  Who should be contacted when trying to get the local mappers
> buy-in? IMHO I would contact only those found by Pascal Neis’ tool [1],
> which would have contributed more than 10 changesets and for which the main
> activity centre is within a the concerned municipality (tick/untick the
> display option boxes [1]).
>
> Proposals or comments you which to share?
>
> Daniel
>
> [1] Overview of OpenStreetMap Contributors aka Who’s around me?
> http://resultmaps.neis-one.org/oooc?
>
> *From:* Daniel @jfd553 [mailto:jfd...@hotmail.com]
> *Sent:* Saturday, January 11, 2020 15:41
> *To:* talk-ca@openstreetmap.org
> *Subject:* [Talk-ca] FW: Re: Importing buildings in Canada
>
>
>
> By the way, have a look at
>
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Canada_Building_Import
>
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/The_Open_Database_of_Buildings
>
> Cheers
>
>
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[talk-au] (no subject)

[James Oliver]

Hello
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Re: [Talk-us] User in Florida changing several motorways to trunk

[James Mast]

Well, I have noticed he has downgrade a ton of roads that were 'trunk' for 6+ 
years, which leads me to be believe they were tagged correctly if no other 
local mapper touched them in that time period.  There were also a few ways in 
that changeset you mentioned that he changed to secondary that at a previous 
time was trunk (till he changed it to primary late last year). See: 
https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/216669397/

Honest mistakes on his end? Perhaps.  But I'm just seeing way too many 
downgrades to be conformable with his 'highway type' changes to be honest.  
There's probably quite a few roads that he retagged as primary that need to be 
re-upgraded to trunk and so on.  Routing algorithms have probably been 
seriously damaged by some of the changes unfortunately.

As for restoring the 'motorway' roads, I've honestly just been manually fixing 
them.  Sure, takes longer, but allows me to catch the 'Emergency U-Turn' 
crossovers that are improperly tagged as a '_link', and fix them at the same 
time.  I've cleared & restored the proper motorway/motorway_link tags on 
FL-414, FL-429, FL-451, & FL-453 manually so far.  Leaves FL-408, FL-417, 
FL-528, and a few non-state roads around Walt Disney World.  But those routes 
are some pretty long ones, and will take some time to fix since they have 
several exits along them.

From: Levente Juhász 
Sent: Wednesday, January 8, 2020 7:56 AM
To: talk-us 
Cc: James Mast 
Subject: Re: [Talk-us] User in Florida changing several motorways to trunk

FYI the user also joined the changeset discussion as of recently. Based on the 
message and previous changeset comments (e.g. "trunk-primary fixes (that i 
messed up)" in 
https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/79132672#map=12/28.4681/-81.4027) it 
seems to be an honest mistake.

I can help out with fixes over the weekend. Let me know if you come up with a 
plan to restore highway=motorway tags.

Levente

On Tue, Jan 7, 2020 at 8:39 PM James Mast 
mailto:rickmastfa...@hotmail.com>> wrote:
I was just alerted to this by a friend, and thought I'd post about it here as 
well, since I don't really have the time to work on doing all the reverting 
that unfortunately needs to be done here (there's a lot).

But over the last 2 weeks, there's been a user changing several 100% motorways 
(& are toll highways to boot) that just happen to be state highways in Florida 
from motorway to trunk.  This is mostly as far as I can tell in the Orlando 
area, but might affect other areas in FL too.

I did leave the user a message on Changeset 79155661 ( 
https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/79155661 ).  Hoping he will see it, but 
with all the major highways that have been seriously demoted in priority that 
could seriously affect routing very badly, I honestly couldn't wait for a 
response before I posted a message to here as well.

Anybody willing to help out here in restoring the motorway tags to the proper 
highways?
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[Talk-us] User in Florida changing several motorways to trunk

[James Mast]

I was just alerted to this by a friend, and thought I'd post about it here as 
well, since I don't really have the time to work on doing all the reverting 
that unfortunately needs to be done here (there's a lot).

But over the last 2 weeks, there's been a user changing several 100% motorways 
(& are toll highways to boot) that just happen to be state highways in Florida 
from motorway to trunk.  This is mostly as far as I can tell in the Orlando 
area, but might affect other areas in FL too.

I did leave the user a message on Changeset 79155661 ( 
https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/79155661 ).  Hoping he will see it, but 
with all the major highways that have been seriously demoted in priority that 
could seriously affect routing very badly, I honestly couldn't wait for a 
response before I posted a message to here as well.

Anybody willing to help out here in restoring the motorway tags to the proper 
highways?
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Re: [Talk-ca] Importing buildings in Canada

[James]

Tell me when and where and the tasking manager project for xyz location
will be setup and hosted

On Sat., Jan. 4, 2020, 12:42 p.m. Daniel @jfd553, 
wrote:

> Bonjour groupe
>
>
>
> Looks like we're going in the same direction so far :-)
>
> I agree with Nate regarding the implementation of the task manager. In my
> experience, a size of a few blocks would be better in urban areas, but
> boring in rural areas. Is it something that can be adjusted?
>
>
>
> Daniel
>
>
>
> *From:* Nate Wessel [mailto:bike...@gmail.com]
> *Sent:* Saturday, January 04, 2020 10:09
> *To:* talk-ca@openstreetmap.org
> *Subject:* Re: [Talk-ca] Importing buildings in Canada
>
>
>
> Hi Daniel,
>
> Thank you for all the work you've put into this. I'd like to offer a
> couple suggestions and/or clarifications for your proposed import process,
> overview though it is.
>
> First, I think it is very important that a tasking manager is set up on a
> city/by city basis only, and that only AFTER consensus is achieved that the
> import should proceed in that area. I would really like to avoid seeing the
> massive nationwide tasking that was set up the first time around. We should
> be making it hard for people to go rogue in regions where consensus for an
> import doesn't (yet) exist.
>
> Related to this, though important enough to be a second point in it's own
> right, the tasking squares need to be small enough that a single user can
> manage them and inspect every single building in a task. The first round of
> import used task squares that were massive, and which couldn't be divided
> any further past a certain point. Even in rural areas, it is likely
> inappropriate to import areas larger than 1km^2. In central Toronto it
> would be (and was) idiotic. An import that doesn't take local scale into
> account shouldn't proceed. "Too big to load into JOSM" is about 100x too
> big to import in my opinion and is not a good enough benchmark for import
> batch sizing.
>
> That is, each import needs to be local, and not just in a superficial
> sense.
>
> I'll also add that the issue of conflation doesn't seem to have been
> worked out yet except to note that it is an issue. What will we do with the
> millions of buildings which will substantially overlap/duplicate existing
> buildings or imports? This needs to be worked out in detail before anything
> starts up again.
>
> And what needs to be done about already existing low quality imports? It's
> good to acknowledge their existence, but what will be done about them?
> We've set up a task to clean up some of the mess in Toronto (
> http://tasks.osmcanada.ca/project/168 ) but this is only the tip of the
> iceberg.
>
> Again, I thank everyone for their time and effort on this - we can get
> this done if we go slow and do it right :-)
>
> Best,
>
> Nate Wessel, PhD
> Planner, Cartographer, Transport Nerd
> NateWessel.com 
>
> On 2020-01-03 3:40 p.m., Daniel @jfd553 wrote:
>
> Bonjour groupe, mes excuses pour ce très long courriel !-)
>
> I have reviewed everything that has been written on the ODB import (aka
> Canada Building Import) in Talk-ca and the wiki. I proposed changes to some
> wiki pages (via talk tabs) to ease the discussions about this import and
> the following. Now, in order to restart the import, here are some thoughts
> and a proposal on how to proceed to complete the task.
>
>
>
> *1. Issues with the ODB Data Import*
>
> Many concerns were raised about the import. One major concern was to
> obtain local communities’ buy-in in the Canadian context. Another concern
> was to improve the quality of the data prior the import. The following
> paragraphs intend to clear most of these concerns.
>
> *1.1. Which data import project?*
>
> According to the import guidelines (steps 3 & 4), a data import explicitly
> refers to a single data source (ODB in our case). Discussions about the
> availability and quality of Microsoft or ESRI data, while interesting, are
> not relevant as they should be dealt with as other import projects.
>
> *1.2. What has been imported so far?*
>
> According to what I found [1], the ODB import is completed for 21
> municipalities. These imports seem to have kept OSM content’s history, at
> least for the samples checked, but many problems were found. In some case,
> the imports brought swimming pools in OSM because they were included in the
> dataset (e.g. Moncton). In other cases, importing buildings with accurate
> locations (XY) over content mapped from less accurate imagery resulted in
> buildings that now overlap the street network (e.g. Squamish). It means
> that all these 21 imports need to be carefully re-examined and corrected as
> required.
>
> For 12 other municipalities, the import is partial, either suspended as
> requested, or because previous imports had already provided most of the
> buildings (often from the same municipal provider). That said the import
> will definitely improve OSM accuracy and completeness if done 

Re: [OSM-talk] no-go-areas

[James]

Wouldn't that just be a crime map or a bias towards areas vs others.

Sounds like an osm use case more than a needed tag

On Tue., Dec. 31, 2019, 10:18 a.m. Martin Trautmann,  wrote:

> hi all,
>
> did you read about the Suisse tourist couple which was shot because they
> got lost in a Brasilian favela?
>
> NZZ (Neue Zürcher Zeitung) from Tuesday 31.12.2019. ("Schweizer Ehepaar
> bei Irrfahrt duch Favela in Brasilien
> angeschossen")
>
> Other examples are e.g. Mafia areas within Kosovo - or name your own
> home town no-go area.
>
> Is there any option to mark certain areas in order to bypass routing
> whenever possible?
>
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Re: [Talk-ca] Importing buildings in Canada

[James]

wasn't there talk about this before and someone blocked it because of
non-square buildings and the resulting discussion was that each community
was going to decide if they want to import or not?

On Tue., Dec. 24, 2019, 1:26 p.m. Daniel @jfd553, 
wrote:

> Hi Group!
>
> I am currently working on a proposal which, I hope, will bring consensus
> among the community and relaunch the import of ODB footprints (StatCan).
> The proposal should be ready in a few weeks, or sooner.
>
>
>
> In the meantime, I suggest to all those who are interested to take note of
> the observations I made regarding these data. This information can be found
> in the OSM wiki (1). According to OSM import guideline requirements, it
> describes the data to import. At the same time, I updated the
> Canada-federal section of the Data Potential wiki page (2).
>
>
>
> I will be offline in the next few days, so if you have any
> questions/comments, please be patient :-)
>
>
>
> Daniel
>
>
>
> 1 - https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/The_Open_Database_of_Buildings
>
> 2 -
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Potential_Datasources#Federal_.28Open_Government.29
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Re: [Talk-GB] What is a Department Store

[James Derrick]

Hi,

On 19/12/2019 19:12, Philip Barnes wrote:

The key feature in my mind is that each department is that you paid in
each shop, you couldn't buy a pair of shoes and pay for them in the
record department.


TBH, I don't remember big stores in NE England (e.g. Fenwick, Callers, 
Farnons in NCL), enforcing a 'pay here' separation. It may have been 
there, but I was more interested in the vacuum shuttle systems taking 
the invoice and cash back to the safe!


My thought on taxonomy is more about the physical separation of one 
enterprise into multiple departments, each specialising in one class of 
goods with  product displays, people, and advice separated into sections.


To re-use your 'Are You Bing Served' example - "/Ground floor perfumery 
stationary, and leather goods/, /wigs."/


Some supermarkets sell washing machines, but there's much less of a 
separation into departments - a tin of paint may be on the same shelf 
(e.g Tesco Extra - one big shed full of stuff no one can find).




The big thing that kept me out of such places was
the perfume department which always seemed to be just inside the main
door to overpower and drive me back out.


The House of Fraser on the West end of Princes Street Edinburgh being 
the worst I remember - hazard=Chanel No.5 perhaps? :-)




In OSM we are using department store to describe most commonly for
example M & S. Whilst it does have departments, you take things to a
single till. Food is still sort of separate, but as far as I am aware
you can pay for your socks along with your groceries.


Again, I see the physical organisation as the differentiator, not the 
payment mechanism.




ASDA Home may fit this, but again you pay at a single till area.

Was taken to TK Maxx today, had never been in before and had always
assumed it was a clothes shop and had mapped it as such. It sells much
more than clothes, actually felt like BHS used to. But again you take
things to a single till. On checking, iD suggests Department Store.


Hmm, never been in one.

Perhaps another factor is the breadth of items stocked and type 
(convenience/ shopping/  speciality/ unsought goods)?


* Supermarket = sells food and other consumables, with limited 
higher-order of goods mixed freely on shelves and isles.


* Department = sells speciality goods physically separated into 
departments, may sell convenience and shopping goods but in one area 
(e.g. a food hall, delicatessen, or similar department).




Am I stuck in the 70s?


You are not alone!

Meaningful stuff happened like decimilsation, Tubular Bells, 
Glastonbury, the Range Rover, but then again so did, strikes, power 
cuts, the Hillman Avenger, and the last canal commercial carrying...


TTFN,


James
--
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li...@jamesderrick.org, Cramlington, England
I wouldn't be a volunteer if you paid me...
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Re: [Talk-GB] barrier=kerb on highways may be blocking OSRM (Car) routing

[James Derrick]

Hi Edward,

On 18/12/2019 16:31, Edward Catmur via Talk-GB wrote:
Further to this - if you want to look for barrier=kerb + 
highway=crossing nodes in your area, which may be disrupting routing, 
the Overpass query is node["barrier"="kerb"]["highway"="crossing"] : 
https://overpass-turbo.eu/s/P5YJames


Brilliant - there is a rash of barrier=kerb in North Tyneside 
(Cullercoates and Whitley Bay), which rather explains the original 
routing issues.


Time to fire up JOSM...

Thanks,


James
--
James Derrick
li...@jamesderrick.org, Cramlington, England
I wouldn't be a volunteer if you paid me...
https://www.openstreetmap.org/user/James%20Derrick


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Re: [Talk-GB] What is farmland?

[James Derrick]

On 16/12/2019 12:32, Andy Townsend wrote:


  * Firstly, I only tend to add farmland etc. after I've added fences,
walls, ditches, gates, bits of woodland etc. (it's just easier
that way around).
  * If the crop extends right up to the hedge, I'd tend to have the
hedge sharing nodes with both fields.
  * If there's a ditch, track or other separating feature I'd try and
draw the hedges either side (if they exist) and have the farmland
not sharing nodes with the ditch but with the hedge (if it
exists).  Similarly I wouldn't attach farmland to roads.
  * If there's an uncultivated strip around the edge of the field I
wouldn't tend to include that in the "field". Similarly if an area
is left as scrub (perhaps to wet for crops), I'd map as scrub.


+1

After several years mapping Northumberland (about 60% complete!), that's 
almost exactly the same style I've landed on.



Adding boundaries and rivers first helps get a feel for the area, then 
adding individual polygons is easier with the follow tool in JOSM.


Large areas of one polygon are a PITA to maintain later - e.g. if a 
meadow is ploughed up, or a housing estate appears. (I know - I've 
cursed my own previous less detailed mapping several times...)



Also to help with maintenance, I separate roads from landuse UNLESS in 
upland areas where there may be less field boundaries but 
barrier=cattle_grid visible which means the sheep really are in the 
middle of the highway.


And, please don't chop up roads into little segments so one way can be 
used in four area relations (my least favourite maintenance PITA). Your 
future self will be happier if you draw separate lines! :-)



My own practice is to show a pattern of cultivation with different tags 
such as farmland, meadow, scrub, heath. In Northumberland this can give 
additional information at large scales as height limits the types of 
farming which are viable as you rise inland from the coast.


And yes, farmers do indeed plough up grazing land and rotate crops - I 
try to map what is visible from cycle survey, and different imagery 
providers whilst accepting it's not going to be as canonical as a 
housing estate!


TTFN,


James

James
--
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li...@jamesderrick.org, Cramlington, England
I wouldn't be a volunteer if you paid me...
https://www.openstreetmap.org/user/James%20Derrick

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[Talk-GB] barrier=kerb on highways may be blocking OSRM (Car) routing

[James Derrick]

Hi,

After investigating two reports of OSRM routing failures around North 
Tyneside, the common factor I can see is barrier=kerb tags added to 
highway=crossing nodes intersecting highway=tertiary and 
highway=cycleway/ footway ways.


Here are links to the two map note reports:

https://www.openstreetmap.org/note/2030228
https://www.openstreetmap.org/note/2030238

To investigate the report, I entered the postcodes given into the 
default routing engine on the OSM map and found VERY odd routes going 
10x the direct distance, and avoiding very obvious direct paths:

https://www.openstreetmap.org/directions?engine=fossgis_osrm_car=55.0659%2C-1.4624%3B55.0511%2C-1.4530#map=14/55.0590/-1.4747=N

Personally, I'd not noticed the OSM main map had added several routing 
engines as I use separate tools, so have no idea how often the routing 
engines update their database extracts but expect the issue to be 
visible for a few days.



After two examples of bad routing, I checked the paths between the 
geolocated points given and found one common factor - barrier=kerb on a 
road / footway highway=crossing node.


https://www.openstreetmap.org/node/4341572135

My hunch is the router isn't familiar with barrier=kerb, so is assuming 
BOTH ways are blocked and using an alternate path.



It is debatable how a routing engine should interpret highway=kerb tag, 
however my own thought is the kerb is not on the highway=secondary - it 
is on the highway=footway.


If anywhere, there should be two nodes on the footway separate from the 
secondary to give information to wheelchair accessibility routers.



As an experiment, I've removed the barrier=kerb from a highway-crossing 
and added two nodes on the cycleway, with the additional explicit tags of:


  barrier=kerb
  bicycle=yes
  foot=yes
  wheelchair=limited
  kerb=lowered
  tactile_paving=yes
  horse=yes  (ISTR UK law says cycle = horse!)

This is rather cumbersome compared with one barrier=kerb tag on the 
node, but logic suggests this is more consistent with reality and 
current routers.



Has any one used the barrier=kerb tag, or is familiar with the inner 
workings of OSRM or similar engines please?


Thanks,


James
--
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li...@jamesderrick.org, Cramlington, England
I wouldn't be a volunteer if you paid me...
https://www.openstreetmap.org/user/James%20Derrick


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[OSM-talk] Website selling OpenStreetMap prints without attribution

[James]

https://365canvas.com/product/hello-will-you-i-do-map-canvas-prints/

The preview of the customize is 100% OSM data as I always have "trap" data
I check that other map providers haven't mapped yet(usually being excessive
detail).

Not sure who the tile set provider is, possibly mapbox? The heart shape
hides that information.
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Re: [OSM-talk] Tesla using OSM without attribution?

[James]

not sure if using maps to render tiles or just for parking lot routing

On Tue., Nov. 12, 2019, 5:28 a.m. MARLIN LUKE, 
wrote:

> Sorry for the self-response, but it seems it's already been noticed
> because it's listed in weeklyOSM #485 [1].
>
> There's no mention of the attribution issue though.
>
> [1] http://weeklyosm.eu/archives/12521
>
> --
> *De :* MARLIN LUKE 
> *Envoyé :* mardi 12 novembre 2019 11:11
> *À :* talk@openstreetmap.org 
> *Objet :* [OSM-talk] Tesla using OSM without attribution?
>
> I've recently come across the information that Tesla might be using OSM,
> at least for it's "smart summon" feature. The point of the feature is to
> make the car self drive to you from it's parking lot.
>
> Tesla Motor Club Forum users have noticed that the "smart summon" works
> better when they correct OSM data in the parking lots around them [1].
> Tesla Motor Club put up a small article that sums it up [2] but in the
> forum there is additional information that might be valuable. There, a user
> mention sytem logs about Vahlalla: a lib that apparently relies on OSM [3].
>
> I don't own one so I cannot check if there is any attribution, however it
> looks like there is none.
>
> I'm also unsure what to do with that information if it is true, that's why
> I'm opening up this thread.
>
> [1]
> https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads/tesla-owners-can-edit-maps-to-improve-summon-routes.172027/
> [2]
> https://teslamotorsclub.com/blog/2019/11/04/tesla-owners-can-edit-maps-to-improve-summon-routes/
> [3] https://github.com/valhalla/valhalla
>
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Re: [talk-au] local traffic only

[Michael James]

As I have said in other forums

Websites are not the law, unless it is the legislation website.

From: osm.talk...@thorsten.engler.id.au 
Sent: Tuesday, 12 November 2019 2:59 AM
To: 'OSM Australian Talk List' 
Subject: Re: [talk-au] local traffic only

Well, the website of the Queensland Department of Transport and Main Roads 
website specifically lists “Local Traffic Only” as an official state level sign.

https://www.qld.gov.au/transport/safety/signs/instruction (see section “Local 
traffic restriction signs”)


From: Michael James mailto:mich...@techdrive.com.au>>
Sent: Monday, 11 November 2019 09:20
To: OSM Australian Talk List 
mailto:talk-au@openstreetmap.org>>
Subject: Re: [talk-au] local traffic only

They existed prior to 1997 and were removed when the national rules were 
introduced that year.

It’s likely that local councils are unaware that they no longer have any legal 
purpose.

From: Sebastian S. mailto:mapp...@consebt.de>>
Sent: Sunday, 10 November 2019 9:50 PM
To: talk-au@openstreetmap.org<mailto:talk-au@openstreetmap.org>; Andrew Harvey 
mailto:andrew.harv...@gmail.com>>; Mateusz Konieczny 
mailto:matkoni...@tutanota.com>>
Cc: OSM Australian Talk List 
mailto:talk-au@openstreetmap.org>>
Subject: Re: [talk-au] local traffic only

So the sign is put up by the council. Is it not an official sign?

Could someone elaborate on the legal side mentioned here. E.g. is there 
catalogue of street signs in the road rules and this one is not among them?

Are people confusing lax enforcement of the sign with it having no legal 
meaning?
On 9 November 2019 11:37:49 am AEDT, Andrew Harvey 
mailto:andrew.harv...@gmail.com>> wrote:
On Sat, 9 Nov 2019 at 02:24, Mateusz Konieczny 
mailto:matkoni...@tutanota.com>> wrote:
Why it would be irrelevant?

access tag family is for legal access (with some space for officially 
discouraged access),
access=destination is for "transit is illegal", not "local residents dislike 
transit traffic".

OSM is not a place to add a nonexisting ban on transit traffic

Yeah realised this later, see my other post in this thread at 
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk-au/2019-November/013188.html, 
which I suggested motor_vehicle:advisory=destination to tag a suggested or 
advised but maybe not legally enforceable destination only restriction.

On Sat, 9 Nov 2019 at 01:55, Mateusz Konieczny 
mailto:matkoni...@tutanota.com>> wrote:
Is it "local traffic only" as in "resident only" or "no transit"?

Is permission required to enter this area?

AFAIK there is no tagging scheme for distinguishing "only with permission of
homeowner" and "available to all residents of closed community".

It just means this road is indented to be used if you're traveling to somewhere 
along this road, but not if you're just driving through as a shortcut.

It's still public land, not private property.
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Re: [talk-au] local traffic only

[Michael James]

They existed prior to 1997 and were removed when the national rules were 
introduced that year.

It’s likely that local councils are unaware that they no longer have any legal 
purpose.

From: Sebastian S. 
Sent: Sunday, 10 November 2019 9:50 PM
To: talk-au@openstreetmap.org; Andrew Harvey ; 
Mateusz Konieczny 
Cc: OSM Australian Talk List 
Subject: Re: [talk-au] local traffic only

So the sign is put up by the council. Is it not an official sign?

Could someone elaborate on the legal side mentioned here. E.g. is there 
catalogue of street signs in the road rules and this one is not among them?

Are people confusing lax enforcement of the sign with it having no legal 
meaning?
On 9 November 2019 11:37:49 am AEDT, Andrew Harvey 
mailto:andrew.harv...@gmail.com>> wrote:
On Sat, 9 Nov 2019 at 02:24, Mateusz Konieczny 
mailto:matkoni...@tutanota.com>> wrote:
Why it would be irrelevant?

access tag family is for legal access (with some space for officially 
discouraged access),
access=destination is for "transit is illegal", not "local residents dislike 
transit traffic".

OSM is not a place to add a nonexisting ban on transit traffic

Yeah realised this later, see my other post in this thread at 
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk-au/2019-November/013188.html, 
which I suggested motor_vehicle:advisory=destination to tag a suggested or 
advised but maybe not legally enforceable destination only restriction.

On Sat, 9 Nov 2019 at 01:55, Mateusz Konieczny 
mailto:matkoni...@tutanota.com>> wrote:
Is it "local traffic only" as in "resident only" or "no transit"?

Is permission required to enter this area?

AFAIK there is no tagging scheme for distinguishing "only with permission of
homeowner" and "available to all residents of closed community".

It just means this road is indented to be used if you're traveling to somewhere 
along this road, but not if you're just driving through as a shortcut.

It's still public land, not private property.
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Re: [OSM-talk] Addressing SIG

[James]

It's a pretty cool concept, but doesn't necessarily invoke ALL addresses
have been found, what happens if a few addresses are there? What happens if
someone adds 1 or 2 addresses?

Pretty good QA tool I'm guessing?
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Re: [OSM-talk] [Osmf-talk] Reminder: OSM Etiquette guidelines

[James]

Conspiracy: tagging a grassy knoll "the place JFK was shot from"

Nitpicking: You rounded off the 16th decimal on a city's name tag, losing a
maximum on 10cm of precisionon...a...city...nametag.




On Mon., Nov. 4, 2019, 4:56 a.m. Martin Koppenhoefer, <
dieterdre...@gmail.com> wrote:

> I've read this several times in different occasions, but I never
> understood the "no conspiracy theory" clause. Who decides what a conspiracy
> theory is, and what a conspiracy? Wouldn't it be a perfect means to silence
> criticism, if one wanted, to declare any critique a "conspiracy theory"?
>
> Similarly, "nitpicking". When is something "nitpicking" and when is it a
> useful observation of a detail? Especially in tagging discussions, "no
> nitpicking" doesn't necessarily seem to be a productive instruction.
>
> Could you please clarify? Maybe I missed something and you didn't mean to
> point to the 11 June 2011 version, which according to the wiki is the
> binding OSMF adopted version of the etiquette guidelines?
>
> Cheers
> Martin
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Re: [Talk-ca] Parkings amb carsharing (opendata bcn)

[James]

Es el listo de email para el Canada. No esta para Catalan.

Mucho gracias

On Sun., Nov. 3, 2019, 8:03 p.m. Jarek Piórkowski, 
wrote:

> Hi Joan, this is the Canadian mailing list, not the Catalan one :)
>
> Thanks,
> --Jarek
>
> On Sun, 3 Nov 2019 at 19:59, Joan Quintana  wrote:
> >
> > Aquesta importació ha de ser fàcil, només són 25 parkings amb carsharing.
> > El dubte és l'etiqueta.
> > A [1] es proposa dues etiquetes:
> > 
> > amenity=parking
> > amenity=car_sharing
> > 
> > Però no es contempla la possibilitat de què un parking tingui un número
> reservat de places per carsharing.
> >
> > Com s'hauria de fer en aquest cas?
> > Joan Quintana
> >
> > [1]. https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/ES:Tag:amenity%3Dparking
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Re: [OSM-talk] Geofabrik Download server maintains privacy | Re: Maintaining privacy as a casual mapper

[James]

but lets be honest, if there was a malicious entity that wanted to find out
where he lived, an OpenStreetMap account isnt really a barrier to entry.

On Sun., Nov. 3, 2019, 6:31 a.m. Rory McCann,  wrote:

> On 03.11.19 11:42, Philippe Latulippe wrote:
> > Are there better ways to maintain some privacy while editing the map?
> > Are there some tools? Or is there a way to make edits in a way that
> > doesn't reveal my username to regular users?
>
> It might interest you to know that on the Geofabrik download server (
> https://download.geofabrik.de/ ), the public files don't have usernames,
> user ids, or changeset ids, to preserve privacy. Some use cases need
> this detail, which is available under stricter conditions with an
> OpenStreetMap login account ( https://osm-internal.download.geofabrik.de/
> ).
>
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