Re: [OSM-talk-fr] osm13 ne répond(ait) plus...

[Christian Quest]

Ces outils ne datent pas d'hier mais:
- pour les "anciens" on les oublie car on ne les utilise pas au quotidien
- pour les "nouveaux" on les découvre parce qu'on n'en parle pas souvent

Ces fichiers d'écarts sont effectivement faciles à traiter en complément de
la couche Route500.

Il y a aussi les analyses osmose faites à base du Route500 qui permettent
de repérer les incohérences:
http://osmose.openstreetmap.fr/fr/map/#item=7170=2=15=48.12115=2.20363=Mapnik=T


QA...

C'est bon, le rendu QA est de retour et en turbo !
Le calcul des premiers zoom (6 à 8) ne prends désormais que quelques
secondes :)

C'est beau de voir qu'il est de moins en moins coloré... les points magenta
indiquant des routes potentiellement manquantes se sont bien réduits en 4
ans !
Il y a des nids à dégommer en Normandie, Aquitaine, PACA et au sud
d'Orléans...



Le 5 novembre 2017 à 20:07, Francescu GAROBY  a écrit :

> Merci Christian pour ces fichiers CSV, fort pratiques !
> Ça m'a permis de "dézinguer du 0km" dans le Calvados, en
> ajoutant/corrigeant les "ref" des routes qui n'en avaient pas, ou qui
> avaient le mauvais (il s'agissait généralement de voie avec une lettre
> manquante ou en minuscule, dans le tag "ref"), et qui étaient donc
> considérées, dans le fichier CSV, comme faisaint 0km dans OSM.
> Je nous recommande de faire ce travail pour tous les départements : c'est
> pas très long (ça m'a pris plus d'une heure, pour le Calvados), c'est
> facile et sans prise de tête (les routes existent, c'est juste qu'elles
> n'ont pas le tag ref ou qu'il n'a pas la bonne valeur) ! Et c'est d'autant
> plus simple qu'il existe la couche Route500 dans JOSM, pour voir d'où à où
> vont les routes en question. Un jeu d'enfant !
>
> Francescu
>
> Le 5 novembre 2017 à 17:45, Christian Quest  a
> écrit :
>
>> Un truc de plus remis en route sur osm13: les statistiques d'écarts entre
>> Route500 et OSM.
>>
>> Pour rappel... ce sont des fichiers CSV départementaux, avec le
>> kilométrage dans OSM et Route500 de chaque route identifié par son type et
>> numéro (ex: D19, A6, N12).
>>
>> Ils sont mis à jour chaque nuit et c'est la dernière version du Route500
>> (2017) qui est utilisée.
>>
>> Ils sont ici: http://osm13.openstreetmap.fr/~cquest/routes/
>>
>>
>> J'enchaîne avec "QA" et son rendu...
>>
>> --
>> Christian Quest - OpenStreetMap France
>>
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>>
>
>
> --
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>
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>


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Re: [Talk-it] OT: Lista tagging

[demon.box]

Per esempio sotto windows che client potrei usare?

Grazie, ciao
--enrico


P.s.: ho capito che il prob sta nel mirroring su Nabble che si è interrotto
a maggio...



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Re: [Talk-cz] Druhy cesticek v lese

[Petr Holub]

Ahoj Pavle,

> Na OpenAlt byla diskuze o cestickach v lese. Kupodivu jsme dosli k
> zaveru:
> 
> highway=path jsou male cesty v lese, vhodne pro chuzi pomalou chuzi,
> klikate, etc. Kun nebo kolo tam projede jen s velkejma potizema.
> 
> highway=track jsou velke cesty kde projede traktor.
> 
> Tohle ponechava znacne mnozstvi prostoru mezi; mezi cestickou kde
> jeste projde houbar, a metr sirokou cestou kde se da bezet / cvalat na
> koni je pomerne velky rozdil.

rekl bych ze highway=path je dostatecne, protoze mame i dalsi atributy,
kterymi si da realny stav dopresnit. Napriklad:
- width=*
- trail_visibility=*
- ground=*
Myslim, ze bychom meli vice propagovat jejich uzivani, hodi se to nejen
pro kone, ale napr. i pro prujezdnost stezek s kolem s privesnym vozikem
s detmi.

To by mohlo stacit i konakum na zakladni rozliseni, co je a co neni
vhodne na cval.

> Dava smysl stredne velke cesty znacit jako:
> 
> highway=bridleway, horse=yes -- mekke cesty kde je pohodlne, a mozne
> rychle jet na koni (dobra viditelnost trasy, relativne rovna cesta bez
> korenu, neprilis vetvi).
> 
> (highway=bridleway normalne implikuje horse=designated; proto davame
> ze horse=yes -- kone dovoleni).

Podle mne ne - bridleway je opravdu cesta primarne pro kone, jak stoji
psano i na OSM wiki. To je trochu jako bychom sirsi pesiny v lese
highway=cycleway a bicycle=yes, protoze to neni bicycle=designated ;).

Pokud chces hodnotit "vhodnost pro kone", tak bych spise uvazoval nad
analogii class:bicycle, class:bicycle:mtb, a class:bicycle:mtb:technical.
Podobne bys mohl navrhout class:horse a nechat to projit hlasovanim.


Jinak jsem se v posledni dobe setkal jeste se dalsimi napady, ktere
se zacaly (znovu) objevovat v OSM v CR a bylo by na miste asi dosahout
trochu konsensu co s tim:

1) pouziti highway=footway v lese
   ... podle mne ma smysl snad jen v pripade, ze se jedna ucelove zbudovany
   chodnicek v lese, nejlepe asfaltovy... ;)

2) pouziti highway=cycleway pro stezky budovane v ramci "terenni cyklistiky"
   (treba na Novem Meste na Morave nebo v Jedovnicich)
   ... podle mne by bylo rozumnejsi nechavat highway=cycleway pro cesty 
   pokryte prislusnou dopravni znackou 
   ... terenni stezky lese bych nechaval jako highway=path + bicycle=designated
   + typicky i foot=no, pokud je na nich vylouceny provoz chodcu

3) kombinaci tagu access=no a bicycle=designated
   ... cimz chtel dotycny rici highway=path + bicycle=designated + foot=no
   ... podle Access Restrictions se to zda byt validni - nicmene pokud se 
shodneme,
   ze tohle znaceni je validni, tak minimalne MTBmap bude potrebovat 
aktualizaci
   renderovacich pravidel, aby na takovych stezkach ukazovala mtb:scale=*
   ... prijde mi, ze highway=path + bicycle=designated + foot=no je lehce lepsi,
   protoze postihuje to, co je na takovych stezkach zakazano explicitne, a 
co je
   zakazano implicitne

Petr


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Re: [Talk-cz] OpenAlt - SOTM CZ - jiz tento víkend!

[Marián Kyral]

-- Původní e-mail --
Od: Tom Ka 
Komu: OpenStreetMap Czech Republic ,
Openstreetmap Slovakia 
Datum: 3. 11. 2017 20:09:17
Předmět: [Talk-cz] OpenAlt - SOTM CZ - jiz tento víkend! 
"Ahoj,

konference OpenAlt v Brně a její sekce OSM začíná Mariánovou
přednáškou již zítra! Hlavní část je pak v neděli viz. program:

https://openalt.cz/2017/program_detail.php#track4

Těšíme se s Mariánem, Jakubem a VOPem na vás!
"



Ahoj,

díky všem kdo dorazili, mapperům i nemapperům. Bohužel jsem neměl moc času
užít si přednášky ostatních tracků, tak snad budou záznamy :-)




Jak se to líbilo vám?




Mně příjemně překvapila panelová diskuze. Se to tak pěkně všechno propojilo.
VOP, dle mého soudu,  velmi zdařile reprezentoval OSM.


Díky.




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Re: [Talk-cz] Druhy cesticek v lese

[Marián Kyral]

-- Původní e-mail --
Od: Pavel Machek 
Komu: talk-cz@openstreetmap.org
Datum: 5. 11. 2017 17:05:10
Předmět: [Talk-cz] Druhy cesticek v lese
"Ahoj!

Na OpenAlt byla diskuze o cestickach v lese. Kupodivu jsme dosli k
zaveru:

highway=path jsou male cesty v lese, vhodne pro chuzi pomalou chuzi,
klikate, etc. Kun nebo kolo tam projede jen s velkejma potizema.

highway=track jsou velke cesty kde projede traktor.

Tohle ponechava znacne mnozstvi prostoru mezi; mezi cestickou kde
jeste projde houbar, a metr sirokou cestou kde se da bezet / cvalat na
koni je pomerne velky rozdil.

Dava smysl stredne velke cesty znacit jako:

highway=bridleway, horse=yes -- mekke cesty kde je pohodlne, a mozne 
rychle jet na koni (dobra viditelnost trasy, relativne rovna cesta bez
korenu, neprilis vetvi).

(highway=bridleway normalne implikuje horse=designated; proto davame 
ze horse=yes -- kone dovoleni).
"



Ahoj,

je pravda, že je docela rozdíl mezi úzkou pěšinou od zvěře a vydupanou pěší
dálnicí. Asi má smysl to nějak zaznačit. Jen nevím, jestli bridleway, nebo
nějaký jiný, vhodnější nový tag. Ale je otázka, jaký by byl vhodnější tag.
Jak jej pojmenovat a jak přesně definovat jeho popis. Tady mi nápady schází
:-D




A taky se nabízí otázka, zda není bridleway mapování pro render.




Ale pokud se dohodnem, tak nemám problém to tak začít značit s tím, že časem
se to třeba objeví lepší schéma, na které bude možné konvertovat.




BTW: neměl bys nějaké názorné fotky, co je a co už není bridleway?





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Re: [OSM-talk-fr] La communauté OSM Fr se trouve-t'elle dans un monde où la réalité est distordue ?

[Christian Quest]

Ma réalité est en effet distordue depuis quelques années, grâce à un filtre
d'email :)

J'ai retrouvé cette semaine la logorrhée de cet "éminent" contributeur sur
le slack HOT avec ce ton toujours aussi affirmatif pour un contenu bien
souvent erroné.

Le 5 novembre 2017 à 23:29, Christian Rogel <
christian.ro...@club-internet.fr> a écrit :

> Depuis plus d’une semaine, un éminent contributeur français est devenu une
> vedette mondiale sur la liste OSM en anglais. Le plus amusant est que,
> puisque cela se passe dans un cercle anglophone, il semble que la
> communauté francophone y soit indifférente.
> Vivrait-elle dans une certaine distorsion de la réalité ? Cela semble bien
> confirmer l’ambiance très provinciale de OSM Talk-fr.
>
> En résumé, car je ne lis pas tout, il est reproché à verdy_p de
> complexifier le calendrier du wiki OM (c’est vrai, je n’ai pas réussi à y
> ajouter un événement, mais, il paraît que cela faciliterait l’usage d’un
> mystérieux logiciel et cela semble être la raison de la disparition dudit
> calendrier dans la newsletter HebdoOSM).
>
> C’est l’activité intense de verdy_p sur le wiki OSM en anglais qui est
> critiquée par les uns et défendue par les autres.
>
> Dernier épisode : Michael Reichert a voulu raccourcir de longs
> développements à propos des rapprochements des données
> OSM/Wikidata/Wikipedia et accuse vp de mener une guerre d’édition.
>
>
> Au moins, maintenant que nous sommes au courant, nous avons un tout petit
> peu réintégré la communauté mondiale  (heureusement, les anglophones sont
> suffisamment polis pour ne pas mentionner les nationalités des
> contributeurs ;-)  ).
>
>
> Christian R.
> ___
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> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-fr
>



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Re: [Talk-it] OT: Lista tagging

[liste_girarsi]

Il 5 Novembre 2017 23:49:37 CET, "demon.box"  ha scritto:
>un ultima cosa ma puntando direttamente qui
>
>https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/tagging/
>
>non posso più avere una modalità di visualizzazione come ero abituato
>prima
>e come sono abituato tuttora ad avere qui in questa lista, cioè in
>questo
>modo?
>
>http://gis.19327.n8.nabble.com/Tagging-f5258744.html
>
>grazie ancora.
>ciao
>
>--enrico


Se intendi raggruppati per discussioni dipende dal tuo client.
--simone girardelli--
##
Inviato dal mio dispositivo Android con K-9 Mail. Perdonate la brevità.

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[Talk-TW] OSMGeo Week

[Dennis Raylin Chen]

Dear all

11/12~18 是 OSMGeo Week 期間

我這邊把台北聚會的時間提早一週，變成在 11/13 晚上 19:30~21:30 在摩茲工寮辦活動，教 Task Manager 3 操作，來畫某個
Task。

有空的人歡迎一起過來

臉書活動頁面連結：https://www.facebook.com/events/2002170516690350/
hackpad:
https://osmtw.hackpad.tw/2017-11-13-OSMGeoWeek-Taipei-Meetup-Note-e9QWhs9wkIR

Dennis
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Re: [Talk-GB] [Talk-gb-westmidlands] Christmas curry

[Rob Nickerson]

No preferences from me. Will let you and the others within the local area
pick :-)

Thanks,

*Rob*

On 5 November 2017 at 16:35, Brian Prangle  wrote:

> Sounds good to me. It's in my diary.Anyone got any preference for a good
> curry house?
>
> Regards
>
> Brian
>
> On Sat, Nov 4, 2017 at 3:14 PM, Rob Nickerson 
> wrote:
>
>> Hi all,
>>
>> A few years ago the Mappa Mercia group decided to make our December
>> meeting a "Christmas curry". We discussed the same idea this week.
>>
>> We'd love for others to join us. I guess it will be first Thursday of
>> December unless there is an outcry for a different date.
>>
>> Anyone up for it?
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Rob
>>
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>>
>>
>
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Re: [Talk-it] OT: Lista tagging

[demon.box]

Daniele Forsi-2 wrote
> quello è servizio di terze parti, la lista vera è qui
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging

ah ecco ;-) grazie, c'era qualcosa di grosso che non quadrava

un ultima cosa ma puntando direttamente qui

https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/tagging/

non posso più avere una modalità di visualizzazione come ero abituato prima
e come sono abituato tuttora ad avere qui in questa lista, cioè in questo
modo?

http://gis.19327.n8.nabble.com/Tagging-f5258744.html

grazie ancora.
ciao

--enrico




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Re: [OSM-talk-fr] Determiner la projection d une carte

[Philippe Verdy]

Vu la résolution faible de la carte et la façon dont les frontières ont été
tracées (avec des traits d'épaisseurs très variables et des tas de pixels
surnuméraires) je pense que ce n'est plus une projection mais déjà tweaké à
la main avant de dessiner par dessus à main levée les zones "noires" (qui
ne correspondent à aucune limite de département). Je pense même que les
point blancs visibles ne sont que des approximations visuelles à la main de
la position réelle des villes.

Ce n'est plus une carte correspondant à une vraie projection géographique,
mais un patchwork manuel résultant d'approximations successives (y compris
par l'utilisation de filtres bitmap très agressifs pour durcir abusivement
les contrastes et grossir des pixels qui à l'origine devaient être en
demi-teintes, et des ajouts dessinés au pinceau pour ensuite "corriger" ce
qui a été cassé par la compression excessive de l'image), puis encore d'une
forte dégradation lorsqu'on sauve une image à contraste brutal (entre
pixels contigus) au format JPEG, ce qui crée des artefacts nombreux très
visibles ici (discontinuité des frontière de la Meuse et de la ligne
côtière des Bouches-du-Rhône par exemple, frontières de graisse fortement
inégale, "bruit" de quantification très important partout, et effet
mosaïque 8x8 très prononcé par un taux de compression JPEG beaucoup trop
élevé, sans parvenir pourtant à la petite taille d'un GIF ou PNG).

Pour les images schématiques et quasi monochrome sur 1 bit comme ici ou les
icônes de petite taille (moins de 128 x 128pixels), JPEG est à bannir, et
PNG (ou même GIF qui est maintenant totalement libre) est toujours bien
meilleur (et produit même ici un fichier plus petit) ! Pour tout fichier de
moins de 128x128 pixels, ne pas utiliser JPEG à moins que ce soit une photo
convenablement éclairée et très faiblement retouchée.

Tu auras plus vite fait de repartir d'un SVG correct et de retracer à la
main les plages noires qui ont été tracées aussi à main levée dans ton
fichier JPEG.


Le 5 novembre 2017 à 22:58,  a écrit :

>
>
> - Mail original -
> De: "Jean-Claude Repetto" 
>
> > Bonjour Julien,
>
> Bonjour,
>
> > En général, il n'est pas évident de retrouver la projection d'une carte
> > si on n'a aucune info.
>
> Oui je vois ca !
>
> > Si les méridiens et parallèles sont tracés, c'est
> > déjà plus facile, on peut voir si ça ressemble à une projection
> > rectangulaire ou pas. Sans voir la carte, c'est difficile de t'aider.
>
> Non ici je n ai que les limites de departement cf piece jointe
> J ai essaye de convertir toutes les coordonnees des villes en Lambert 93
> mais si ca semble coller cote Bretagne on dirait que c est pivote et etire
> sur les autres limites du territoire
>
> > Pour convertir les coordonnées, inutile de passer par GDAL. Tu peux
> > utiliser les commandes de PROJ.4, par exemple cs2cs :
> > http://proj4.org/apps/cs2cs.html
>
> > Si tu veux éviter d'utiliser les chaines PROJ.4, tu peux utiliser les
> > codes EPSG.
>
> > Exemple de de conversion de Lambert 93 vers Lon/Lat :
> > $ echo "703000 6486136" | cs2cs +init=epsg:2154 +to +init=epsg:4326
> > 3d2'18.228"E  45d28'28.813"N 0.000
>
> Ok, merci pour ces infos
>
> Julien
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[OSM-talk-fr] La communauté OSM Fr se trouve-t'elle dans un monde où la réalité est distordue ?

[Christian Rogel]

Depuis plus d’une semaine, un éminent contributeur français est devenu une 
vedette mondiale sur la liste OSM en anglais. Le plus amusant est que, puisque 
cela se passe dans un cercle anglophone, il semble que la communauté 
francophone y soit indifférente.
Vivrait-elle dans une certaine distorsion de la réalité ? Cela semble bien 
confirmer l’ambiance très provinciale de OSM Talk-fr.

En résumé, car je ne lis pas tout, il est reproché à verdy_p de complexifier le 
calendrier du wiki OM (c’est vrai, je n’ai pas réussi à y ajouter un événement, 
mais, il paraît que cela faciliterait l’usage d’un mystérieux logiciel et cela 
semble être la raison de la disparition dudit calendrier dans la newsletter 
HebdoOSM).

C’est l’activité intense de verdy_p sur le wiki OSM en anglais qui est 
critiquée par les uns et défendue par les autres.

Dernier épisode : Michael Reichert a voulu raccourcir de longs développements à 
propos des rapprochements des données OSM/Wikidata/Wikipedia et accuse vp de 
mener une guerre d’édition.
 

Au moins, maintenant que nous sommes au courant, nous avons un tout petit peu 
réintégré la communauté mondiale  (heureusement, les anglophones sont 
suffisamment polis pour ne pas mentionner les nationalités des contributeurs 
;-)  ).


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Re: [Talk-de] JOSM installieren - FireFox, Win8

[Scholtes, Martin]

Anderes ist eigentlich nur, das du JOSM dann als Programm auf deinem PC 
installierst.
Ob der deine bisherige Konfig übernohmt kann ich dir nicht sagen

-Ursprüngliche Nachricht-
Von: Markus [mailto:liste12a4...@gmx.de] 
Gesendet: Sonntag, 5. November 2017 22:37
An: talk-de@openstreetmap.org
Betreff: Re: [Talk-de] JOSM installieren - FireFox, Win8

Hallo Martin,

> probiere es doch mal mit dem Win-Installer.

Fragen:
- was ist daran anders/besser als JOSM.jnlp mit Web Start Launcher?
- übernimmt der automatisch meine bisherige Konfiguration?

Gruss, Markus


> -Ursprüngliche Nachricht-
> Von: Markus [mailto:liste12a4...@gmx.de] 
> Gesendet: Sonntag, 5. November 2017 22:15
> An: Openstreetmap allgemeines in Deutsch 
> Betreff: [Talk-de] JOSM installieren - FireFox, Win8
> 
> Wenn ich im Wiki https://josm.openstreetmap.de/wiki/De%3AWikiStart
> auf https://josm.openstreetmap.de/download/josm.jnlp klicke, und öffnen will 
> mit "Java(TM) Web Start Launcher (standard)"
> 
> dann finde ich unter "Öffnen mit" den Web Start Launcher nicht mehr.
> 
> Was mache ich falsch?
> Wie geht's richtig?
> 
> Gruss, Markus
> 
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> 


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Re: [Talk-it] OT: Lista tagging

[Daniele Forsi]

Il 5 novembre 2017 22:32, demon.box ha scritto:
> ciao, scusate, ma qualcuno sa cortesemente dirmi come mai la lista tagging:
>
> http://gis.19327.n8.nabble.com/Tagging-f5258744.html

quello è servizio di terze parti, la lista vera è qui (negli archivi
trovi la risposta di Volker):
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging

-- 
Daniele Forsi

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Re: [Talk-de] Deutsche Namens-Tags in Polen

[SteMo]

Martin Koppenhoefer schrieb am 05.11.17 um 22:37:
> 
> 
> sent from a phone
> 
> On 5. Nov 2017, at 20:27, SteMo  wrote:
> 
>>> kannst Du bitte mal erklären, wo das Problem ist bei "Posen Hauptbahnhof"
>>> oder "Posen Eisenmühle"? Sind das nicht die Namen aus der Zeit, als die
>>> Gegend preussisch war und die Eisenbahn und Bahnhöfe gebaut wurden, also
>>> die ursprünglichen "old_name" ohne ":de"?
>>> http://www.openstreetmap.org/way/477784703
>>>
>>
>> Gerne. Was ist denn bitte genau in dieser Region "old" Schon mal die
>> historischen Karten angeschaut? Bevor die Preußen sich das Gebiet unter
>> den Nagel gerissen hatten war das polnisches Gebiet. ;)
> 
> 
> nur gabs damals halt noch keine Bahnhöfe...
> 

Aber die Bahnhöfe/Orte heißen nun mal heute nicht mehr so, sondern anders.

(Istanbul heißt nicht mehr Byzanz, Kolkata nicht mehr Kalkutta, Sri
Lanka nicht mehr Ceylon, Chemnitz nicht mehr Karl-Marx-Stadt,
Willly-Brandt-Straße nicht mehr Ost-West-Straße (HH), etc.pp.)
;)

Cheers,
Stefan

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Re: [Talk-it] OT: Lista tagging

[Volker Schmidt]

Enrico,

la lista sembra funzionante.
Ho ricevuto il tuo post quattro volte.
Ho anche risposto.

Volker

2017-11-05 22:32 GMT+01:00 demon.box :

> ciao, scusate, ma qualcuno sa cortesemente dirmi come mai la lista tagging:
>
> http://gis.19327.n8.nabble.com/Tagging-f5258744.html
>
> è ferma a maggio 2017 e di fatto non accetta più nessun post?
>
> grazie.
>
> --enrico
>
>
>
>
> --
> Sent from: http://gis.19327.n8.nabble.com/Italy-General-f5324174.html
>
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Re: [OSM-talk-fr] Determiner la projection d une carte

[thevenon . julien]

- Mail original -
De: "Jean-Claude Repetto" 

> Bonjour Julien,

Bonjour,

> En général, il n'est pas évident de retrouver la projection d'une carte 
> si on n'a aucune info.

Oui je vois ca !

> Si les méridiens et parallèles sont tracés, c'est 
> déjà plus facile, on peut voir si ça ressemble à une projection 
> rectangulaire ou pas. Sans voir la carte, c'est difficile de t'aider.

Non ici je n ai que les limites de departement cf piece jointe
J ai essaye de convertir toutes les coordonnees des villes en Lambert 93 mais 
si ca semble coller cote Bretagne on dirait que c est pivote et etire sur les 
autres limites du territoire

> Pour convertir les coordonnées, inutile de passer par GDAL. Tu peux 
> utiliser les commandes de PROJ.4, par exemple cs2cs : 
> http://proj4.org/apps/cs2cs.html

> Si tu veux éviter d'utiliser les chaines PROJ.4, tu peux utiliser les 
> codes EPSG.

> Exemple de de conversion de Lambert 93 vers Lon/Lat :
> $ echo "703000 6486136" | cs2cs +init=epsg:2154 +to +init=epsg:4326
> 3d2'18.228"E  45d28'28.813"N 0.000

Ok, merci pour ces infos

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Re: [OSM-talk] CC0 in UK, CC0 in USA, sui generis database right and Wikidata

[Mateusz Konieczny]

On Sun, 5 Nov 2017 21:29:21 +0100
Simon Poole  wrote:

> Back to WD: as pointed about above, the issue is not that the WMF is
> claiming that WD can be used on CC0 terms when it couldn't be, aka
> laundering the data (quite to the contrary), it is that because  we
> would need to vet the provenance of the data (because it is obviously
> from a large variety of non-declared sources) and that is a
> non-starter.

I attempted to describe situation at
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Wikidata#Importing_data - can you
look at it? Hopefully it will help to avoid rehashing this topic in
future (and is rather closer to truth than
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/w/index.php?title=Wikidata=1518440#Importing_data
claiming "data may be copied from Wikidata without restriction." since
2014 -
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/w/index.php?title=Wikidata=1053450=1045330
)

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Re: [Talk-de] Deutsche Namens-Tags in Polen

[Martin Koppenhoefer]

sent from a phone

On 5. Nov 2017, at 20:27, SteMo  wrote:

>> kannst Du bitte mal erklären, wo das Problem ist bei "Posen Hauptbahnhof"
>> oder "Posen Eisenmühle"? Sind das nicht die Namen aus der Zeit, als die
>> Gegend preussisch war und die Eisenbahn und Bahnhöfe gebaut wurden, also
>> die ursprünglichen "old_name" ohne ":de"?
>> http://www.openstreetmap.org/way/477784703
>> 
> 
> Gerne. Was ist denn bitte genau in dieser Region "old" Schon mal die
> historischen Karten angeschaut? Bevor die Preußen sich das Gebiet unter
> den Nagel gerissen hatten war das polnisches Gebiet. ;)


nur gabs damals halt noch keine Bahnhöfe...

Gruß,
Martin 
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Re: [Talk-de] JOSM installieren - FireFox, Win8

[Markus]

Hallo Martin,

> probiere es doch mal mit dem Win-Installer.

Fragen:
- was ist daran anders/besser als JOSM.jnlp mit Web Start Launcher?
- übernimmt der automatisch meine bisherige Konfiguration?

Gruss, Markus


> -Ursprüngliche Nachricht-
> Von: Markus [mailto:liste12a4...@gmx.de] 
> Gesendet: Sonntag, 5. November 2017 22:15
> An: Openstreetmap allgemeines in Deutsch 
> Betreff: [Talk-de] JOSM installieren - FireFox, Win8
> 
> Wenn ich im Wiki https://josm.openstreetmap.de/wiki/De%3AWikiStart
> auf https://josm.openstreetmap.de/download/josm.jnlp klicke, und öffnen will 
> mit "Java(TM) Web Start Launcher (standard)"
> 
> dann finde ich unter "Öffnen mit" den Web Start Launcher nicht mehr.
> 
> Was mache ich falsch?
> Wie geht's richtig?
> 
> Gruss, Markus
> 
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[Talk-GB] Importing Shell fuel stations

[Rob Nickerson]

Thanks Andy. Any talks you recommend us watching?

I can recommend the following:

https://2017.stateofthemap.us/program/building-community-in-south-florida.html

90% imported automatically, the remaining 10% left to the local community.
Seems like engaging with them is hard at this stage even when you offer
extra credits for student assignments!!

Rob
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[Talk-it] OT: Lista tagging

[demon.box]

ciao, scusate, ma qualcuno sa cortesemente dirmi come mai la lista tagging:

http://gis.19327.n8.nabble.com/Tagging-f5258744.html

è ferma a maggio 2017 e di fatto non accetta più nessun post?

grazie.

--enrico




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Re: [Talk-de] JOSM installieren - FireFox, Win8

[Scholtes, Martin]

Hallo Markus,

probiere es doch mal mit dem Win-Installer.

Gruß
Martin

-Ursprüngliche Nachricht-
Von: Markus [mailto:liste12a4...@gmx.de] 
Gesendet: Sonntag, 5. November 2017 22:15
An: Openstreetmap allgemeines in Deutsch 
Betreff: [Talk-de] JOSM installieren - FireFox, Win8

Wenn ich im Wiki https://josm.openstreetmap.de/wiki/De%3AWikiStart
auf https://josm.openstreetmap.de/download/josm.jnlp klicke, und öffnen will 
mit "Java(TM) Web Start Launcher (standard)"

dann finde ich unter "Öffnen mit" den Web Start Launcher nicht mehr.

Was mache ich falsch?
Wie geht's richtig?

Gruss, Markus

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[Talk-de] JOSM installieren - FireFox, Win8

[Markus]

Wenn ich im Wiki https://josm.openstreetmap.de/wiki/De%3AWikiStart
auf https://josm.openstreetmap.de/download/josm.jnlp klicke,
und öffnen will mit "Java(TM) Web Start Launcher (standard)"

dann finde ich unter "Öffnen mit" den Web Start Launcher nicht mehr.

Was mache ich falsch?
Wie geht's richtig?

Gruss, Markus

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Re: [Talk-it] Convento, scuola elementare e asilo

[Cascafico Giovanni]

Poi potresti creare una relazione di tipo site che raggruppi tutti gli
elementi scuola, scuola d'infanzia, convento ed anche la/le entrance (di
cui una main) che suppongo condivise.

Il 05/nov/2017 20:29, "Damjan Gerl"  ha scritto:

> 05.11.2017 - 18:14 - Irene Saltini:
>
>> Mi trovo nell’imbarazzante situazione di taggare un edificio con cortile
>> in centro storico che funge sia da convento che da scuola (elementare e
>> asilo). A quanto mi risulta, in tutti e tre i casi dovrei taggare come
>> amenity l’intera area relativa al complesso scolastico / conventuale, che
>> però coincidono...
>>
>> Per ora ho taggato il convento sull’area e aggiunto un nodo
>> amenity=school (piuttosto che kindergarten) con isced:level=0;1. Cosa
>> fareste al mio posto?
>>
>> Ciao,
>> Irene.
>>
>
> Decidi quale sia la caratteristica più importante e taggi tutto con quella
> (diciamo il poligono/edificio come convento). Poi nel poligono aggiungi
> altri due punti che tagghi con gli altri due, in questo caso scuola e
> asilo, con tutti i tag inerenti, dal nome avanti. Almeno io faccio così.
>
> Ciao
> Damjan
>
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Re: [Talk-it] Convento, scuola elementare e asilo

[Irene Saltini]

>Giusto per capire ed orientarsi, si sta parlando di un collegio e
>convento allo stesso tempo o ci sono edifici separati?
>
>La scuola è parte od ad uso del paese/città o è privata (quindi collegio)?
>
>--
>_|_|_|_|_|_|_|_|_|_
>|*_|_|_|_|_|_|_|_|_|_|
*>Simone Girardelli

L’edificio è unico, è una “fetta” di isolato, se mi passi il termine poco
tecnico. La scuola è privata (parificata) e gestita dalle suore del
convento.

>Decidi quale sia la caratteristica più importante e taggi tutto con
>quella (diciamo il poligono/edificio come convento). Poi nel poligono
>aggiungi altri due punti che tagghi con gli altri due, in questo caso
>scuola e asilo, con tutti i tag inerenti, dal nome avanti. Almeno io
>faccio così.
>
>Ciao
>Damjan

La cosa che mi lascia un attimo turbata è di avere poi di conseguenza
due nodi con lo stesso nome, per due “oggetti” che sarebbero
sostanzialmente la stessa cosa, a causa della distinzione un po’
artificiosa tra school e kindergarten. Se fosse stato, ad esempio, un
istituto che include elementari e medie non mi sarei neanche posta il
problema.


Ciao,

Irene.
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Re: [OSM-talk] CC0 in UK, CC0 in USA, sui generis database right and Wikidata

[Simon Poole]

Maybe I need to expand a bit, this was discussed early on when WD first
became available, and is just a rehash of that.

Essentially it boils down to

- the WMF only licences ".. all of Affirmer's Copyright and Related
Rights and..." on CC0 terms (CC0 2.), in other words their rights

- and doesn't warrant that the Work is free of third party rights (CC0 4.c)

See https://creativecommons.org/publicdomain/zero/1.0/legalcode for the
text.

You will find similar provisions in many public licenses.

In general when we are using third party data in OSM the onus is on us
to do enough due diligence to determine the provenance of the data and
if it is actually possible to use it on the terms presented. Depending
on the source this may be reasonably easy to do with a high degree of
confidence, in other cases it may not (an infamous case was part of the
downfall of openaddresses.uk). 

Now while in principle the same applies to somebody using OSM data, we
(OSM) invest a lot of effort in ensuring that any third party data can
actually be distributed on our licence terms (and that includes shying
away from anything that could cause issues). So while we are clearly not
perfect, we are a lot lot better than essentially any other project in
the same space.

Back to WD: as pointed about above, the issue is not that the WMF is
claiming that WD can be used on CC0 terms when it couldn't be, aka
laundering the data (quite to the contrary), it is that because  we
would need to vet the provenance of the data (because it is obviously
from a large variety of non-declared sources) and that is a non-starter.

Simon

Am 05.11.2017 um 20:36 schrieb Mateusz Konieczny:
> On Sun, 5 Nov 2017 10:28:29 -0800
> Mark Wagner  wrote:
>
>> Not an issue.  The CC0 license explicitly calls out database rights as
>> being released to the greatest extent possible.  From the text of the
>> license (https://creativecommons.org/publicdomain/zero/1.0/legalcode)
> What about cases where:
>
> 1) there is database from say UK, protected under database rights
> 2) imported into Wikidata (AFAIK in compliance with USA laws)
> 3) described by Wikidata as CC0
>
> 1) coordinates are copied from for example Google Maps into Wikipedia
> (it is accepted and encouraged on Wikipedia as AFAIK it is not against
> USA law)
> 2) imported into Wikidata (done on a massive scale, significant part
> of Wikidata is mass scale copying of facts justified by "facts are not
> copyrighted")
> 3) described by Wikidata as CC0
>
> I am quite sure that in both cases Wikidata contains data not usable in
> EU/UK (and the same time it can be claimed that data is CC0 - at least
> in USA it is true).
>
> Hopefully I am missing something but I am pretty sure that removing
> database rights from collection of data is not as simple as "republish
> database in USA and copy it back".
>
> If copying coordinate data from Google Maps is not OK than copying
> Wikidata coordinates (that were copied from Wikipedia, sourced to
> Google Maps) is also not OK.
>
> Note that examples above are not theoretical, especially tainted
> geotagging is problematic.
>
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Re: [OSM-talk] Dispute on wiki page Collaboration_with_Wikipedia

[Mateusz Konieczny]

On Sun, 5 Nov 2017 13:45:25 +0100
Michael Reichert  wrote:

> I think that the question if someone may copy
> data from OSM/Wikipedia/Wikidata to Wikipedia or Wikidata should not
> be discussed in the OSM wiki in full length.

Especially Wikidata to Wikipedia and Wikipedia to Wikidata imports are
completely offtopic for us.

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[Talk-cl] Reunión Comunitaria Noviembre 2017

[Julio Costa Zambelli]

Hola a todos,

Para la reunión comunitaria de Noviembre de 2017 nos recibirá nuevamente
Inria Chile (Apoquindo 2827, Piso 12, Las Condes. Metro Tobalaba). Esta
tendrá lugar el próximo Sábado (11) desde las 10:00 a las 14:00 y está
abierta a todos los interesados previa inscripción.

Quienes quieran participar, por favor llenen el formulario en:
https://goo.gl/forms/l5PZr0GoDWQtIxjR2

Cualquier consulta por esta vía o en el grupo de Telegram (OSMcl).

Saludos,

Julio Costa Zambelli
Fundación OpenStreetMap Chile

julio.co...@openstreetmap.cl

https://www.openstreetmap.cl/
Cel: +56(9)89981083
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Re: [Talk-cz] Fwd: DŮLEŽITÉ_Doplnění infa k aplikaci

[Jachym Cepicky]

chlapci, díky, asi dobrý, uvidíme co paní Kováčová

pá 3. 11. 2017 v 15:34 odesílatel Tom Ka  napsal:

> Ahoj, jen odkazy, vic snad po vikendu pokud se Jachym ozve, co presne
> by potreboval :-)
>
> http://osm.fit.vutbr.cz/OsmHiCheck/gp/stats.php
> pripadne lze vyuzit obcasne shrnuti ve weekly, pokud 2017, tak:
>
> http://www.weeklyosm.eu/cz/archives/8725
> http://www.weeklyosm.eu/cz/archives/9415
>
> Bye
>
>
> Dne 2. listopadu 2017 23:52 Jachym Cepicky 
> napsal(a):
> > statistiku prosím ;-)
> >
> > čt 2. 11. 2017 v 19:55 odesílatel Marián Kyral  napsal:
> >>
> >> Tak v tom případě bych určitě zmínil projekt mapování turistických tras
> a
> >> sbírání fotek rozcestníků. Tom Kašpárek možná dodá i statistiku, kolik
> se
> >> povedlo zmapovat.
> >>
> >> Marián
> >>
> >> -- Původní e-mail --
> >> Od: Jachym Cepicky 
> >> Komu: OpenStreetMap Czech Republic 
> >> Datum: 2. 11. 2017 19:21:25
> >> Předmět: Re: [Talk-cz] Fwd: DŮLEŽITÉ_Doplnění infa k aplikaci
> >>
> >> No právě :-D
> >>
> >> já to beru prostě jako komunitu, občanskou iniciativu ze zdola, v
> podstatě
> >> tenhle mailing list, bez formálního tělesa.
> >>
> >> Ale i tahle améba, kterou tvoříte vy, lidi, si zaslouží kredit a o ten
> mi
> >> jde
> >>
> >> j
> >>
> >> On Thu, 2 Nov 2017, 19:04 Marián Kyral,  wrote:
> >>
> >> BTW: co se vlastně přesně myslí pojmem "openstreetmap.cz"? :-D
> >>
> >>
> >> Marián
> >>
> >> -- Původní e-mail --
> >> Od: Jachym Cepicky 
> >> Komu: OpenStreetMap Czech Republic 
> >> Datum: 2. 11. 2017 16:47:55
> >> Předmět: [Talk-cz] Fwd: DŮLEŽITÉ_Doplnění infa k aplikaci
> >>
> >> Dámy a pánové,
> >>
> >>
> >> dovolil jsem si proaktivně přihlásit OpenStreetMap.cz do soutěže
> "Společně
> >> otevíráme data" - s nikým jsem to nekonzultoval, bylo to na poslední
> chvíli,
> >> prostě jsem to udělal a čekal, co se bude dít.
> >>
> >> Teď se mi to trochu vrátilo, protože po mě chějí: "Co se za poslední rok
> >> aktualizovalo/změnilo".
> >>
> >> Mohli byste mi prosím pomoct? Co se stalo zásadního v roce 2017, kvůli
> >> čemu je OSM nejlepší otevřeně-datový projekt v ČR?
> >>
> >> Prosím moc neváhejte reagovat, chtějí to obratem.
> >>
> >> Díky za pomoc
> >>
> >> Jachym
> >>
> >> P.S. Prosím pište nejdřív konstruktivně, a nadávky co jsem si to dovolil
> >> bez informování komunity do zvláštního vlákna, abych se v tom vyznal -
> díky.
> >>
> >> -- Forwarded message -
> >> From: Lenka Kováčová 
> >> Date: čt 2. 11. 2017 v 11:59
> >> Subject: Re: DŮLEŽITÉ_Doplnění infa k aplikaci
> >> To: Jachym Cepicky 
> >>
> >>
> >> Ahoj,
> >>
> >> to všechno chápu a OpenStreetMap samozřejmě považuji za skvělý projekt.
> >> Jde mi ale o ten pojem Aktualizovaná. V pravidlech soutěže je totiž
> napsané
> >> Aplikace "musí být nová či již existující avšak aktualizovaná, tzn.
> aplikace
> >> nebo její aktualizace musí být publikována v období listopad 2016 -
> říjen
> >> 2017. Aktualizovaná aplikace se musí výrazně lišit od předchozí verze."
> >>
> >> Můžete mi prosím napsat v čem se v daném období nejvíc změnila?
> >>
> >> Díky moc za pochopení.
> >> L.
> >>
> >> Lenka Kováčová Koordinátorka Fondu Otakara Motejla
> >>
> >> FOND OTAKARA MOTEJLA
> >>
> >> Hradecká 18, 130 00 Praha 3
> >>
> >> t: +420 226 227 705 <226%20227%20705> m: +420 728 863 039
> <728%20863%20039>
> >>
> >> e: lenka.kovac...@motejl.cz | w: www.osf.cz
> >>
> >> fb: www.facebook.com/nadace.osf | t: @nadaceOSF
> >>
> >> Fond Otakara Motejla spravuje Nadace Open Society Fund Praha
> >>
> >>
> >> Dne 2. listopadu 2017 10:44 Jachym Cepicky 
> >> napsal(a):
> >>
> >> Ahoj,
> >>
> >> přihlásil jsem projekt OpenStreetMap jako celek (za Českou republiku).
> >> Projekt, který čerpá  všechny dostupné státní/soukromé/lidské datové
> zdroje
> >> do jednoho velkého, komplexního, udržovaného datasetu. Celá Česká
> republika
> >> má momentálně 1GB zazipovaných dat a obsahuje celou mapu ČR. Data z OSM
> >> používá na svých stránkách klub českých turistů, stejně jako Seznam.cz
> >> (Seznam tedy pouze pro oblasti mimo ČR - jenom tím chci říct, že je to
> >> uznávaný zdroj), často se k OSM utíkají i veřejné instituce, protože
> pořád
> >> platí, že prostrová data si v ČR veřejná správa mezi sebou přeprodává,
> >> IHned, https://www.vodafone.cz/mapa-pokryti/, a další. Pokud se vám do
> >> soutěže v minulosti nebo součastnosti přihlásila nějaká mapová aplikace,
> >> vsaďte se, že používá jako podklad právě OpenStreetMap
> >>
> >> Projekt je denně na dobrovolnické bázi ručně i poloautomaticky (pomocí
> >> open source programů) udržovaný a aktualizovaný. Česká komkunita se točí
> >> okolo stránek https://openstreetmap.cz/ a existuje aktivní forum
> >> 

Re: [Talk-ca] Vancouver rapid transit stations - "Station" in name?

[Clifford Snow]

I'm with you, station shouldn't be included in the name unless its signed
that way. I've been successful in asking questions like this directly to
the agency. They might be surprised that they have an inconsistent naming
practice between documents.

I did find a Steven Frick, who is secretary of BC URISA, from TransLink,
steven.fr...@translink.ca, that you might ask.

Another good source is their GTFS feed which doesn't use the word Station
in the list of stops.

As a disclaimer, I've only taken SkyTrain a few times so I'm not a good
source on stations should be named.

Clifford

On Sun, Nov 5, 2017 at 10:12 AM, Jarek Piórkowski 
wrote:

> Hello,
>
> First post here, sorry if I mess anything up!
>
> A few months back I noticed that station names for Vancouver Skytrain
> rapid transit system (all lines) are inconsistent: 32 of them have
> "Station" in their name, but 23 don't, with little apparent pattern by
> line or location.
>
> Most of all I would like to make it consistent one way or the other -
> I hope that's not controversial. Which way is then the question.
>
> I made a note about this in downtown Vancouver near Granville station,
> but didn't get much response:
> https://www.openstreetmap.org/note/858075
>
> On the ground, signs on station entrances do include "Station",
> examples (1) (2) below. Signs at platforms do not include "Station",
> example (3). Other TransLink resources are not particularly
> consistent: as one example, network maps like (4) do not include
> "Station" but local station area maps like (5) do.
>
> Are there conventions on what format should be used - in Canada or in
> general in OSM? I couldn't really find anything concrete.
> http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Names seems inconclusive on whether
> it should include "Station". I saw a question (6) on help.osm.org
> which was specific to Hong Kong and in the end hinged more on existing
> consistency.
>
> Analogies from other cities: Toronto and Montreal have no "Station" in
> subway/metro station names. Calgary has no "Station" in its LRT names
> but Edmonton does. Seattle and Portland also have no "Station".
> Possibly the closest analogy, though far away in London, England, see
> (7) for example with photos: signs outside all tube stations have
> format "Goodge Street Station" / "South Kensington Station"; signs at
> platforms say "Goodge Street" / "South Kensington"; OSM tags
> name=Goodge Street / name=South Kensington.
>
> Personally I would prefer no "Station", so making the names like
> "Burrard", "Vancouver City Centre", "Nanaimo", "Inlet Centre". Does
> anyone or any resource disagree?
>
> Cheers,
> --Jarek
>
> (1) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Vancouver_-_Burrard_
> Station_entrance_01.jpg
> (2) https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Coquitlam_Central_
> Station_Exterior.jpg
> (3) https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Coquitlam_Central_
> station_(SkyTrain).jpg
> (4) http://infomaps.translink.ca/System_Maps/skytrain_bline_seabus_map.pdf
> (5) https://www.translink.ca/en/Schedules-and-Maps/SkyTrain/
> SkyTrain-Station-and-Elevator-Maps.aspx
> (6) https://help.openstreetmap.org/questions/52852/railway-
> stationmetro-station-naming
> (7) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goodge_Street_tube_station
>
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>



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osm_seattle.snowandsnow.us
OpenStreetMap: Maps with a human touch
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Re: [Talk-ca] Vancouver rapid transit stations - "Station" in name?

[john whelan]

Sounds sensible to me.  No doubt there will be other opinions.

Cheerio John

On 5 Nov 2017 1:16 pm, "Jarek Piórkowski"  wrote:

> Hello,
>
> First post here, sorry if I mess anything up!
>
> A few months back I noticed that station names for Vancouver Skytrain
> rapid transit system (all lines) are inconsistent: 32 of them have
> "Station" in their name, but 23 don't, with little apparent pattern by
> line or location.
>
> Most of all I would like to make it consistent one way or the other -
> I hope that's not controversial. Which way is then the question.
>
> I made a note about this in downtown Vancouver near Granville station,
> but didn't get much response:
> https://www.openstreetmap.org/note/858075
>
> On the ground, signs on station entrances do include "Station",
> examples (1) (2) below. Signs at platforms do not include "Station",
> example (3). Other TransLink resources are not particularly
> consistent: as one example, network maps like (4) do not include
> "Station" but local station area maps like (5) do.
>
> Are there conventions on what format should be used - in Canada or in
> general in OSM? I couldn't really find anything concrete.
> http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Names seems inconclusive on whether
> it should include "Station". I saw a question (6) on help.osm.org
> which was specific to Hong Kong and in the end hinged more on existing
> consistency.
>
> Analogies from other cities: Toronto and Montreal have no "Station" in
> subway/metro station names. Calgary has no "Station" in its LRT names
> but Edmonton does. Seattle and Portland also have no "Station".
> Possibly the closest analogy, though far away in London, England, see
> (7) for example with photos: signs outside all tube stations have
> format "Goodge Street Station" / "South Kensington Station"; signs at
> platforms say "Goodge Street" / "South Kensington"; OSM tags
> name=Goodge Street / name=South Kensington.
>
> Personally I would prefer no "Station", so making the names like
> "Burrard", "Vancouver City Centre", "Nanaimo", "Inlet Centre". Does
> anyone or any resource disagree?
>
> Cheers,
> --Jarek
>
> (1) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Vancouver_-_Burrard_
> Station_entrance_01.jpg
> (2) https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Coquitlam_Central_
> Station_Exterior.jpg
> (3) https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Coquitlam_Central_
> station_(SkyTrain).jpg
> (4) http://infomaps.translink.ca/System_Maps/skytrain_bline_seabus_map.pdf
> (5) https://www.translink.ca/en/Schedules-and-Maps/SkyTrain/
> SkyTrain-Station-and-Elevator-Maps.aspx
> (6) https://help.openstreetmap.org/questions/52852/railway-
> stationmetro-station-naming
> (7) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goodge_Street_tube_station
>
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Re: [Talk-de] Deutsche Namens-Tags in ...

[SteMo]

Markus schrieb am 04.11.17 um 21:11:
> Hallo Martin,
> 
>> ja, das es hierbei um nationalsozialistisch/faschistisch motivierte, 
>> imperialistische Namensschöpfungen geht ist ja unbestritten, was ich meinte 
>> war, dass das eben auch ein Teil der Geschichte ist.
>> Grundsätzlich gibt es im Kontext von Landeroberungen durch Krieg auch oft 
>> Umbenennungen, nur weil man Gewalt nicht gut findet kann man das m.E. 
>> trotzdem nicht ignorieren 
> 
> Richtig.
> 
> Aber bei vier Problemen sollten wir reagieren:
> 
> 1. Wenn jemand alte Kriegsnamen heute in OSM in name:de einträgt,
>dann ist das falsch.
>Richtig ist: old_name:de mit Angabe über die Zeitspanne.
>Das wäre entsprechend zu korrigieren.
> 
> 2. Wenn jemand alte Kriegsnamen aus eigener imperialisticher Gesinnung
>in name:de einträgt, dann ist das Missbrauch von OSM für
>imperialistische Politik.
>Da reicht m.E. eine simple Korrektur nicht.
>Sondern da ist Zivilcourage gefragt, verbunden mit Nachforschungen
>über weitere Aktionen des Mappers und entsprechender Reaktion.
> 
> 3. Wenn jemand stumpf Namen in andere Sprachen "übersetzt"
>(weil name:xy "noch keinen Eintrag hat")
>z.B. Schwarzwald in "black forest"
>oder Great Canyon in "Grosse Schlucht"
>dann ist das m.E. einfach nur dumm.
> 
> 4. Wenn jemand lokale Namen in anderen Schriftsystemen abbildet,
>damit Menschen die die ursprünglichen Schrift nicht lesen können,
>wenigstens den Namen lautmalerisch nachbilden können,
>dann macht das m.E. Sinn.
>Leider haben wir m.W. noch keine tags für Schriften.
>(und m.W. auch noch kein HowTo im Wiki)
> 
> zu 1 und 3: das muss m.E. lediglich im Wiki internat. dokumentiert
> werden, und danach ist es ist eine Schulungs- und Qualitätsaufgabe
> 
> zu 2: das ist m.E. ein ernstzunehmendes politisches Problem.
> 
> zu 4: das ist m.E. ein Entwicklungs-ToDo
> 
> Gruss, Markus


Dem (1. -3.) stimme ich im allgemeinen zu. Bei 4. denke ich auch, daß da
die maschinellen Methodiekn schon sehr gut sind, daß das nicht manuell
notwendig ist.

Ergänzen würde ich es noch um ein: Sprache ist im Wandel und wir
verwenden die aktuellen jetzt gebräuchlichen Namen/Bezeichnungen und
nicht die, die mal waren.

Denn dann gäbe es kein Ende, bis wann man da historisch (Kaiserzeit,
Römer, Steinzeit...) zurückgehen könnte.
Schlesweg-Holstein war ja mal Dänisch, Teile Meckl.-Vorpom. waren
Schwedisch, Brandenburg und Sachsen polnisch. Und noch weiter zurück die
römischen Regionen/Namen... ;)

Viele Grüße
Stefan

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Re: [OSM-talk] CC0 in UK, CC0 in USA, sui generis database right and Wikidata

[Mateusz Konieczny]

On Sun, 5 Nov 2017 10:28:29 -0800
Mark Wagner  wrote:

> Not an issue.  The CC0 license explicitly calls out database rights as
> being released to the greatest extent possible.  From the text of the
> license (https://creativecommons.org/publicdomain/zero/1.0/legalcode)

What about cases where:

1) there is database from say UK, protected under database rights
2) imported into Wikidata (AFAIK in compliance with USA laws)
3) described by Wikidata as CC0

1) coordinates are copied from for example Google Maps into Wikipedia
(it is accepted and encouraged on Wikipedia as AFAIK it is not against
USA law)
2) imported into Wikidata (done on a massive scale, significant part
of Wikidata is mass scale copying of facts justified by "facts are not
copyrighted")
3) described by Wikidata as CC0

I am quite sure that in both cases Wikidata contains data not usable in
EU/UK (and the same time it can be claimed that data is CC0 - at least
in USA it is true).

Hopefully I am missing something but I am pretty sure that removing
database rights from collection of data is not as simple as "republish
database in USA and copy it back".

If copying coordinate data from Google Maps is not OK than copying
Wikidata coordinates (that were copied from Wikipedia, sourced to
Google Maps) is also not OK.

Note that examples above are not theoretical, especially tainted
geotagging is problematic.

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Re: [Talk-it] Convento, scuola elementare e asilo

[Damjan Gerl]

05.11.2017 - 18:14 - Irene Saltini:
Mi trovo nell’imbarazzante situazione di taggare un edificio con 
cortile in centro storico che funge sia da convento che da scuola 
(elementare e asilo). A quanto mi risulta, in tutti e tre i casi 
dovrei taggare come amenity l’intera area relativa al complesso 
scolastico / conventuale, che però coincidono...


Per ora ho taggato il convento sull’area e aggiunto un nodo 
amenity=school (piuttosto che kindergarten) con isced:level=0;1. Cosa 
fareste al mio posto?


Ciao,
Irene.


Decidi quale sia la caratteristica più importante e taggi tutto con 
quella (diciamo il poligono/edificio come convento). Poi nel poligono 
aggiungi altri due punti che tagghi con gli altri due, in questo caso 
scuola e asilo, con tutti i tag inerenti, dal nome avanti. Almeno io 
faccio così.


Ciao
Damjan

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Re: [OSM-talk-fr] Importation des hauteurs de bâtiments sur Montpellier

[Vincent Frison]

Pour info j'ai corrigé le problème.

J'ai d'abord essayé de faire des reverts sur quelques changesets mais
malheureusement ils étaient tous déjà dirty alors que l'import avait été
fait moins de 24h avant...

Finalement j'ai préféré refaire un petit programme pour retirer le tag
height sur les buildings pour lesquels la valeur du MNT était de 0, soit
5172 éléments. C'est donc cohérent avec ce que je pouvais voir dans les
logs de l'import.

Normalement tout est bon mais je referai des vérifications (pour l'instant
le cache de F4Map n'est pas à jour).

++ Vincent


Le 5 novembre 2017 à 10:07, Christian Quest  a
écrit :

> N'importe qui peut faire un revert... il n'y a que la "redaction" qu'un
> admin peut faire, c'est à dire faire disparaitre aussi une info au niveau
> des historiques.
>
> 
> Vincent... il faut que tu sache corriger toi même un import ou une édition
> automatisée si besoin.
> C'est le minimum à connaitre avant de s'engager dans ce genre de choses,
> sinon tu te fera taper sur les doigts (à juste titre).
> 
>
> Pour l'ODbL, c'est effectivement un peu ridicule et participe de la
> politique anti-import de certains.
>
> Ceci dit, les collectivités françaises qui ont opté pour l'ODbL, devraient
> en principe revoir ce choix, car il n'est pas forcément bien légal... (cf
> mes slides du dernier SOTM "ODbL... oui mais").
>
>
> Le 4 novembre 2017 à 23:29, Vincent Frison  a
> écrit :
>
>> Le 4 novembre 2017 à 23:06, marc marc  a
>> écrit :
>>
>>> Tu peux pas identifier les bâtiments où mmt = 0 ?
>>>
>>
>> Si si tout est dans les logs...
>>
>>
>>> Sinon y a le revert plugin
>>>
>>
>> Ah super je vais regarder ça, en fait je pensais que c'était un truc
>> réservé aux admins...
>>
>>
>> ___
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>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-fr
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> Christian Quest - OpenStreetMap France
>
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>
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Re: [Talk-de] Deutsche Namens-Tags in Polen

[SteMo]

Martin Koppenhoefer schrieb am 31.10.17 um 12:57:
> Am 27. Oktober 2017 um 13:21 schrieb SteMo :
> 
>> Wer in der Region mal aktuell unterwegs war...
>> "Preußisch Friedland" ?? Zoomt gerne mal rein: z.B. Bahnhofsnamen (z.B.
>> "Obornik Großpolen", "Posen Eisenmühle", "Ketsch", "Samter", "Kreuz",
>> "Döllensradung" - "Posen Hauptbahnhof" geht ja noch) in Deutsch!
>> *ratlosKopfschüttel*
> 
> 
> kannst Du bitte mal erklären, wo das Problem ist bei "Posen Hauptbahnhof"
> oder "Posen Eisenmühle"? Sind das nicht die Namen aus der Zeit, als die
> Gegend preussisch war und die Eisenbahn und Bahnhöfe gebaut wurden, also
> die ursprünglichen "old_name" ohne ":de"?
> http://www.openstreetmap.org/way/477784703
> 

Gerne. Was ist denn bitte genau in dieser Region "old" Schon mal die
historischen Karten angeschaut? Bevor die Preußen sich das Gebiet unter
den Nagel gerissen hatten war das polnisches Gebiet. ;)

Es ist etwas komisch, die Historie vor Preußen und dem Deutschen
(dritten) Reich zu ignorieren.

Mappen wir Historie oder das Jetzt?
Bei Historie würde ich darauf bestehen, die Zeiträume der Verwendung mit
zu speichern. Also der Art: name:1899-1915:de


Viele Grüße
Stefan




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Re: [OSM-talk] CC0 in UK, CC0 in USA, sui generis database right and Wikidata

[Simon Poole]

Am 05.11.2017 um 19:28 schrieb Mark Wagner:
>
> Not an issue.  The CC0 license explicitly calls out database rights as
> being released to the greatest extent possible.  From the text of the
> license (https://creativecommons.org/publicdomain/zero/1.0/legalcode)
>
Yes, if it is the rights holder licensing on CC0 terms,

Otherwise (case at hand) irrelevant.
 



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Re: [Talk-in] Earth on AWS

[Srihari Thalla]

This is amazing!

On Sun 5 Nov, 2017, 22:27 Shrinivasan T,  wrote:

> Explore Amazon's stuff on geo spacial field.
>
> https://aws.amazon.com/earth/
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Cheers,
Srihari
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Re: [OSM-talk-fr] osm13 ne répond(ait) plus...

[Francescu GAROBY]

Merci Christian pour ces fichiers CSV, fort pratiques !
Ça m'a permis de "dézinguer du 0km" dans le Calvados, en
ajoutant/corrigeant les "ref" des routes qui n'en avaient pas, ou qui
avaient le mauvais (il s'agissait généralement de voie avec une lettre
manquante ou en minuscule, dans le tag "ref"), et qui étaient donc
considérées, dans le fichier CSV, comme faisaint 0km dans OSM.
Je nous recommande de faire ce travail pour tous les départements : c'est
pas très long (ça m'a pris plus d'une heure, pour le Calvados), c'est
facile et sans prise de tête (les routes existent, c'est juste qu'elles
n'ont pas le tag ref ou qu'il n'a pas la bonne valeur) ! Et c'est d'autant
plus simple qu'il existe la couche Route500 dans JOSM, pour voir d'où à où
vont les routes en question. Un jeu d'enfant !

Francescu

Le 5 novembre 2017 à 17:45, Christian Quest  a
écrit :

> Un truc de plus remis en route sur osm13: les statistiques d'écarts entre
> Route500 et OSM.
>
> Pour rappel... ce sont des fichiers CSV départementaux, avec le
> kilométrage dans OSM et Route500 de chaque route identifié par son type et
> numéro (ex: D19, A6, N12).
>
> Ils sont mis à jour chaque nuit et c'est la dernière version du Route500
> (2017) qui est utilisée.
>
> Ils sont ici: http://osm13.openstreetmap.fr/~cquest/routes/
>
>
> J'enchaîne avec "QA" et son rendu...
>
> --
> Christian Quest - OpenStreetMap France
>
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>
>


-- 
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Re: [OSM-talk] CC0 in UK, CC0 in USA, sui generis database right and Wikidata

[Mark Wagner]

On Sun, 5 Nov 2017 11:47:22 +0100
Mateusz Konieczny  wrote:

> tl;dr 
> 
> It may be not OK to import data from Wikidata despite that this
> database is CC0 (adding wikipedia/wikidata tags is still OK, but this
> connection is mostly useless for adding data into OSM).
> 
> It may be necessary to revert some imports of data from Wikidata
> 
> 
> 
> Note: it is likely that some of what I write below is
> misunderstanding, I am not a lawyer. I would be happy to discover
> that I am wrong and that Wikidata is usable for us.
> 
> In UK and EU putting effort into compiling a database grants a
> property right called sui generis database right (very similar to
> copyright).

Not an issue.  The CC0 license explicitly calls out database rights as
being released to the greatest extent possible.  From the text of the
license (https://creativecommons.org/publicdomain/zero/1.0/legalcode)

> 1. Copyright and Related Rights include, but are not limited to, the
> following:

> vi. database rights (such as those arising under Directive 96/9/EC of
> the European Parliament and of the Council of 11 March 1996 on the
> legal protection of databases, and under any national implementation
> thereof, including any amended or successor version of such
> directive)...

> 2. Waiver. To the greatest extent permitted by, but not in
> contravention of, applicable law, Affirmer hereby overtly, fully,
> permanently, irrevocably and unconditionally waives, abandons, and
> surrenders all of Affirmer's Copyright and Related Rights...

-- 
Mark

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[Talk-ca] Vancouver rapid transit stations - "Station" in name?

[Jarek Piórkowski]

Hello,

First post here, sorry if I mess anything up!

A few months back I noticed that station names for Vancouver Skytrain
rapid transit system (all lines) are inconsistent: 32 of them have
"Station" in their name, but 23 don't, with little apparent pattern by
line or location.

Most of all I would like to make it consistent one way or the other -
I hope that's not controversial. Which way is then the question.

I made a note about this in downtown Vancouver near Granville station,
but didn't get much response:
https://www.openstreetmap.org/note/858075

On the ground, signs on station entrances do include "Station",
examples (1) (2) below. Signs at platforms do not include "Station",
example (3). Other TransLink resources are not particularly
consistent: as one example, network maps like (4) do not include
"Station" but local station area maps like (5) do.

Are there conventions on what format should be used - in Canada or in
general in OSM? I couldn't really find anything concrete.
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Names seems inconclusive on whether
it should include "Station". I saw a question (6) on help.osm.org
which was specific to Hong Kong and in the end hinged more on existing
consistency.

Analogies from other cities: Toronto and Montreal have no "Station" in
subway/metro station names. Calgary has no "Station" in its LRT names
but Edmonton does. Seattle and Portland also have no "Station".
Possibly the closest analogy, though far away in London, England, see
(7) for example with photos: signs outside all tube stations have
format "Goodge Street Station" / "South Kensington Station"; signs at
platforms say "Goodge Street" / "South Kensington"; OSM tags
name=Goodge Street / name=South Kensington.

Personally I would prefer no "Station", so making the names like
"Burrard", "Vancouver City Centre", "Nanaimo", "Inlet Centre". Does
anyone or any resource disagree?

Cheers,
--Jarek

(1) 
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Vancouver_-_Burrard_Station_entrance_01.jpg
(2) 
https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Coquitlam_Central_Station_Exterior.jpg
(3) 
https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Coquitlam_Central_station_(SkyTrain).jpg
(4) http://infomaps.translink.ca/System_Maps/skytrain_bline_seabus_map.pdf
(5) 
https://www.translink.ca/en/Schedules-and-Maps/SkyTrain/SkyTrain-Station-and-Elevator-Maps.aspx
(6) 
https://help.openstreetmap.org/questions/52852/railway-stationmetro-station-naming
(7) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goodge_Street_tube_station

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Re: [Talk-it] Convento, scuola elementare e asilo

[liste DOT girarsi AT posteo DOT eu]

Il 05/11/2017 18:14, Irene Saltini ha scritto:

Mi trovo nell’imbarazzante situazione di taggare un edificio con cortile in
centro storico che funge sia da convento che da scuola (elementare e
asilo). A quanto mi risulta, in tutti e tre i casi dovrei taggare come
amenity l’intera area relativa al complesso scolastico / conventuale, che
però coincidono...

Per ora ho taggato il convento sull’area e aggiunto un nodo amenity=school
(piuttosto che kindergarten) con isced:level=0;1. Cosa fareste al mio posto?

Ciao,
Irene.


Giusto per capire ed orientarsi, si sta parlando di un collegio e 
convento allo stesso tempo o ci sono edifici separati?


La scuola è parte od ad uso del paese/città o è privata (quindi collegio)?

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|_|_|_|_|_|_|_|_|_|_|
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Re: [OSM-talk-fr] Determiner la projection d une carte

[Jean-Claude Repetto]

Le 05/11/2017 à 14:07, thevenon.jul...@free.fr a écrit :

Bonjour,

J ai une image d une carte (300 pixel par 300 pixel environ) et j aimerai 
determiner quelle est sa projection.
J ai tenté une regle de 3 entre les coordonnees en pixel et celles en lambert 
de 93 de 2 villes tres eloignees (Lochrist et Antibes) mais quand j applique l 
operation inverse a Biarritz j obtiens les coordonnees d un pixel trop a l 
Ouest (dans l atlantique). Je suppose donc que c est pas du Lambert93.


Est ce que quelqu un aurait une idee de methode pour retrouver la projection?

Pour faire la conversion wgs84 vers Lambert j ai pense e tourner vers gdal (il 
me semble que c est THE library pour ce genre de chose) mais quand j ai lu la 
doc sur les changements de projection j ai vu des descriptions de systemes de 
coordonnees sous forme de string incomprehensibles pour le non geomaticien que 
je suis donc j ai renoncé.est ce que quelqu un aurait une suggestion ou un lien 
sur un bon tuto qui expliquerait comment faire ça via les APIs C/Python ou meme 
en ligne de commande ?
Pour l essai en Lambert 93 j ai repris une formule en C#  trouvee sur un forum

Mon but final est de determiner a partir d une coordonee de chaque ville 
francaise le pixel correspondant,sa couleur pour generer ensuite en csv 
contenant une valeur pour chaque ville que j afficherais dans umap.

Merci d avance
Julien



Bonjour Julien,

En général, il n'est pas évident de retrouver la projection d'une carte 
si on n'a aucune info. Si les méridiens et parallèles sont tracés, c'est 
déjà plus facile, on peut voir si ça ressemble à une projection 
rectangulaire ou pas. Sans voir la carte, c'est difficile de t'aider.


Pour convertir les coordonnées, inutile de passer par GDAL. Tu peux 
utiliser les commandes de PROJ.4, par exemple cs2cs : 
http://proj4.org/apps/cs2cs.html


Si tu veux éviter d'utiliser les chaines PROJ.4, tu peux utiliser les 
codes EPSG.


Exemple de de conversion de Lambert 93 vers Lon/Lat :
$ echo "703000 6486136" | cs2cs +init=epsg:2154 +to +init=epsg:4326
3d2'18.228"E   45d28'28.813"N 0.000

Jean-Claude


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[Talk-it] Convento, scuola elementare e asilo

[Irene Saltini]

Mi trovo nell’imbarazzante situazione di taggare un edificio con cortile in
centro storico che funge sia da convento che da scuola (elementare e
asilo). A quanto mi risulta, in tutti e tre i casi dovrei taggare come
amenity l’intera area relativa al complesso scolastico / conventuale, che
però coincidono...

Per ora ho taggato il convento sull’area e aggiunto un nodo amenity=school
(piuttosto che kindergarten) con isced:level=0;1. Cosa fareste al mio posto?

Ciao,
Irene.
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[Talk-in] Earth on AWS

[Shrinivasan T]

Explore Amazon's stuff on geo spacial field.

https://aws.amazon.com/earth/
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Re: [OSM-talk-fr] osm13 ne répond(ait) plus...

[Christian Quest]

Un truc de plus remis en route sur osm13: les statistiques d'écarts entre
Route500 et OSM.

Pour rappel... ce sont des fichiers CSV départementaux, avec le kilométrage
dans OSM et Route500 de chaque route identifié par son type et numéro (ex:
D19, A6, N12).

Ils sont mis à jour chaque nuit et c'est la dernière version du Route500
(2017) qui est utilisée.

Ils sont ici: http://osm13.openstreetmap.fr/~cquest/routes/


J'enchaîne avec "QA" et son rendu...

-- 
Christian Quest - OpenStreetMap France
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Re: [Talk-GB] Importing Shell fuel stations

[Andy Allan]

On 3 November 2017 at 17:51, Ilya Zverev  wrote:
> First, thanks everyone for checking the import. I've made some improvements 
> regarding addresses, and I removed the "operator" tag. You can see the 
> improvements on the same map. I'd like to join Richard in a search for a 
> review tool, which would allow people from UK to participate.

Maproulette springs to mind.
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/MapRoulette for those who haven't
seen it before.

On a more general point, I recently attended SOTM-US and it was
noticeable the shift in approach to third-party data that has been
happening over there in the last few years. Very few people or
companies were discussing imports in the manner of "lets get the data
into the right format and then just upload it with a script" and
instead the theme is very much how to get data into the hands of
mappers and how to develop the right tools so that the local
communities can incorporate the data themselves. Facebook were very
clear on this. Even ESRI have been working on developing iD so that
mappers can use third-party data during their normal workflow, rather
than going down the shapefile-and-a-script route. So it's a little
disappointing to return home and find that someone is trying to upload
some dataset directly to the servers, instead of trying put the data
in the hands of mappers to deal with it ourselves.

This Shell data appears to be useful, but I don't like the idea of
giving everyone only a few days to review and comment before shoving
it into the database. Please explore options, like MapRoulette or
others, so that the mappers are in control of the process and not the
techies. I'm sure if mappers are working through the list as part of a
MapRoulette challenge, checking for weirdness and ticking off the ones
that are done, we'll all enjoy it more and we'll end up with better
results. Even just improving these tags as part of a challenge will
lead mappers to reposition the fuel station nodes more accurately, or
even add some further details from imagery, or whatnot.

In short: Third-party data good, bulk imports bad. Power to the mappers!

Thanks,
Andy

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Re: [Talk-gb-westmidlands] Christmas curry

[Brian Prangle]

Sounds good to me. It's in my diary.Anyone got any preference for a good
curry house?

Regards

Brian

On Sat, Nov 4, 2017 at 3:14 PM, Rob Nickerson 
wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> A few years ago the Mappa Mercia group decided to make our December
> meeting a "Christmas curry". We discussed the same idea this week.
>
> We'd love for others to join us. I guess it will be first Thursday of
> December unless there is an outcry for a different date.
>
> Anyone up for it?
>
> Thanks,
> Rob
>
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[Talk-gb-westmidlands] Proposed Import of West Mids VMS Locations

[Brian Prangle]

Hi everyone

I'd like to open a discussion here first before opening it to talkgb and
talkimport

The raw data can be found here


It covers the West Midlands and parts of the M1 and M69 also

Licence is OGL

I've edited the data to give lat/lons and I've added operator tags based on
Motorway/Trunk being Highways England and everything else BCC.
I've put a copy on Dropbox

so you can review the data.
I'd welcome feedback on what to tag the Short Description column


Issues:

VMS tagging is a mess so I'll no doubt have to wade through a tagging
proposal. The most sensible approach was discussed here

I've not checked against against existing OSM data which I suspect is
patchy and given the tagging mess difficult to do a taginfo or ovepass query

What do you all think? Is it worth pursuing?

Regards

Brian
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[Talk-cz] Druhy cesticek v lese

[Pavel Machek]

Ahoj!

Na OpenAlt byla diskuze o cestickach v lese. Kupodivu jsme dosli k
zaveru:

highway=path jsou male cesty v lese, vhodne pro chuzi pomalou chuzi,
klikate, etc. Kun nebo kolo tam projede jen s velkejma potizema.

highway=track jsou velke cesty kde projede traktor.

Tohle ponechava znacne mnozstvi prostoru mezi; mezi cestickou kde
jeste projde houbar, a metr sirokou cestou kde se da bezet / cvalat na
koni je pomerne velky rozdil.

Dava smysl stredne velke cesty znacit jako:

highway=bridleway, horse=yes -- mekke cesty kde je pohodlne, a mozne
rychle jet na koni (dobra viditelnost trasy, relativne rovna cesta bez
korenu, neprilis vetvi).

(highway=bridleway normalne implikuje horse=designated; proto davame
ze horse=yes -- kone dovoleni).

Mejte se,
Pavel
-- 
(english) http://www.livejournal.com/~pavelmachek
(cesky, pictures) 
http://atrey.karlin.mff.cuni.cz/~pavel/picture/horses/blog.html


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Re: [Talk-it] rendering highway=via_ferrata.

[liste DOT girarsi AT posteo DOT eu]

Il 24/10/2017 22:00, liste DOT girarsi AT posteo DOT eu ha scritto:
Mi è stato fatto notare oggi da un utente, cosa a cui non ho mai fatto 
caso, ho sempre messo questo tag nelle poche way incontrate, e mappate, 
però su Josm ho sempre visto una way grigia, non renderizzata o con 
simbologie sue, ma non mi sono mai posto il problema, anche se non lo è.


Per cui chiedo, anche se questo tag è molto usato, nonostante, se non 
sbaglio, sia ancora in proposed, si sà qualcosa se verrà renderizzato o 
meno sulla mappa?


Altrimenti sembra di vedere way troncate.




Innanzitutto sul rendering da parte di Openandromaps, comunico che con 
le mappe aggiornate adesso si vede , questo mi è stato detto dall'utente 
che usa anche lui queste mappe su Oruxmaps.


Da parte mia aggiungo che oggi si vede renderizzato solo su HOT nel sito 
principale, qui un esempio, primo link i tag del tratto, secondo link il 
risutato a video:


1) 
http://www.openstreetmap.org/way/76836818#map=19/46.16948/11.59251=H



2) http://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=19/46.16948/11.59204=H



--
_|_|_|_|_|_|_|_|_|_
|_|_|_|_|_|_|_|_|_|_|
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Re: [OSM-talk-fr] Ligne de bus Lila inexistante

[Jo]

Oh, je voulais encore mentionner le plugin PT_assistant de JOSM.

On Nov 5, 2017 14:09, "Adrien Grellier"  wrote:

> Merci pour vos commentaires, je vais donc supprimer ces relations dans la
> foulée.
>
> La ligne de tram est déjà dans OSM, je vais donc laisser en l'état :)
>
> Bonne journée
>
> Adrien
>
> Le 05/11/2017 à 12:38, Jo a écrit :
>
> Si quelqu'un a déjà mis un tag fixme=obsolete et tu es certain que la
> ligne n'existe plus, le mieux est de supprimer ces relations. Sinon elles
> resteront dans les rendus.
>
> Au cas où les lignes de tram ne seraient pas encore dans la base OSM, tu
> pourrais considérer de recycler ces relations, si le trajectoire est très
> comparable, mais il n'est pas vraiment important de le faire.
>
> Il y a toujours moyen de revenir en arrière, mais pour les relations
> supprimées il faut vraiment savoir qui l'a supprimée et quand, ou connaître
> le changeset.
>
>
> Polyglot
>
> 2017-11-05 12:24 GMT+01:00 :
>
>> Déjà si tu n'est pas complètement sûr, tu peux mettre un préfixe disused:
>>
>> disused:route=bus
>>
>> Est-ce que la ligne a entièrement disparu ?
>> Après si on sait quel changeset l'a supprimé, on peut revenir dessus.
>>
>> Jean-Yvon
>>
>>
>> Le 05/11/2017 à 12:08, Adrien Grellier - pe...@adrieng.fr a écrit :
>>
>> Bonjour,
>>
>> J'essaye de cartographier au mieux la ville de Sucé sur Erdre, au Nord
>> de Nantes.
>>
>>
>> Dans OpenStreetMap des lignes de bus régionale Lila passe à Sucé (ligne
>> 40/41 notamment), mais ces lignes ont été supprimées il y a quelques
>> années, avec l'arrivée du tram-train.
>>
>> Ces relations ont été marquées avec un FIXME=obsolete. Je suppose donc
>> qu'on peut la supprimer tranquillement ?
>>
>> D'une manière générale, si je supprime une relation par erreur, il y a
>> des moyens pour annuler ma suppression ?
>>
>>
>> Bonne journée
>>
>> Adrien
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ___
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>>
>>
>>
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>
>
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Re: [OSM-talk-fr] Ligne de bus Lila inexistante

[Adrien Grellier]

Merci pour vos commentaires, je vais donc supprimer ces relations dans
la foulée.

La ligne de tram est déjà dans OSM, je vais donc laisser en l'état :)

Bonne journée

Adrien


Le 05/11/2017 à 12:38, Jo a écrit :
> Si quelqu'un a déjà mis un tag fixme=obsolete et tu es certain que la
> ligne n'existe plus, le mieux est de supprimer ces relations. Sinon
> elles resteront dans les rendus.
>
> Au cas où les lignes de tram ne seraient pas encore dans la base OSM,
> tu pourrais considérer de recycler ces relations, si le trajectoire
> est très comparable, mais il n'est pas vraiment important de le faire.
>
> Il y a toujours moyen de revenir en arrière, mais pour les relations
> supprimées il faut vraiment savoir qui l'a supprimée et quand, ou
> connaître le changeset.
>
>
> Polyglot
>
> 2017-11-05 12:24 GMT+01:00  >:
>
> Déjà si tu n'est pas complètement sûr, tu peux mettre un préfixe
> disused:
>
> disused:route=bus
>
> Est-ce que la ligne a entièrement disparu ?
>
> Après si on sait quel changeset l'a supprimé, on peut revenir dessus.
>
> Jean-Yvon
>
>
> Le 05/11/2017 à 12:08, Adrien Grellier - pe...@adrieng.fr
>  a écrit :
>> Bonjour,
>>
>> J'essaye de cartographier au mieux la ville de Sucé sur Erdre, au Nord
>> de Nantes.
>>
>>
>> Dans OpenStreetMap des lignes de bus régionale Lila passe à Sucé (ligne
>> 40/41 notamment), mais ces lignes ont été supprimées il y a quelques
>> années, avec l'arrivée du tram-train.
>>
>> Ces relations ont été marquées avec un FIXME=obsolete. Je suppose donc
>> qu'on peut la supprimer tranquillement ?
>>
>> D'une manière générale, si je supprime une relation par erreur, il y a
>> des moyens pour annuler ma suppression ?
>>
>>
>> Bonne journée
>>
>> Adrien
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
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>
>
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[OSM-talk-fr] Determiner la projection d une carte

[thevenon . julien]

Bonjour,

J ai une image d une carte (300 pixel par 300 pixel environ) et j aimerai 
determiner quelle est sa projection.
J ai tenté une regle de 3 entre les coordonnees en pixel et celles en lambert 
de 93 de 2 villes tres eloignees (Lochrist et Antibes) mais quand j applique l 
operation inverse a Biarritz j obtiens les coordonnees d un pixel trop a l 
Ouest (dans l atlantique). Je suppose donc que c est pas du Lambert93.


Est ce que quelqu un aurait une idee de methode pour retrouver la projection?

Pour faire la conversion wgs84 vers Lambert j ai pense e tourner vers gdal (il 
me semble que c est THE library pour ce genre de chose) mais quand j ai lu la 
doc sur les changements de projection j ai vu des descriptions de systemes de 
coordonnees sous forme de string incomprehensibles pour le non geomaticien que 
je suis donc j ai renoncé.est ce que quelqu un aurait une suggestion ou un lien 
sur un bon tuto qui expliquerait comment faire ça via les APIs C/Python ou meme 
en ligne de commande ?
Pour l essai en Lambert 93 j ai repris une formule en C#  trouvee sur un forum

Mon but final est de determiner a partir d une coordonee de chaque ville 
francaise le pixel correspondant,sa couleur pour generer ensuite en csv 
contenant une valeur pour chaque ville que j afficherais dans umap.

Merci d avance
Julien

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[OSM-talk] Dispute on wiki page Collaboration_with_Wikipedia

[Michael Reichert]

Hi,

I have a dispute with user Verdy_p on the sections "Importing geodata
from Wikipedia" and "Importing geodata to Wikipedia" of the wiki page
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Collaboration_with_Wikipedia and
would like to get comments from other members of the OSM community
because edit wars are a waste of time.

That's the state before I started editing yesterday:
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/w/index.php?title=Collaboration_with_Wikipedia=1515024
That's the state after my changes:
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/w/index.php?title=Collaboration_with_Wikipedia=1521333

I added two red warning Ambox templates to make clear that we do not
copy data from Wikipedia (see Mateusz's posting on the legal situation
of imports from Wikidata which is pretty similar
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk/2017-November/079492.html).
In addition I shorted the section "Importing geodata to Wikipedia".

I think that the section "Importing geodata to Wikipedia" is a mess and
found it difficult to read. It contained lots of information which is
not necessary for OSM. I think that the question if someone may copy
data from OSM/Wikipedia/Wikidata to Wikipedia or Wikidata should not be
discussed in the OSM wiki in full length. Instead, the wiki should link
to a page at *.wikipedia.org or *.wikidata.org or the WMF wiki/website.
If the opinion of the OSM Foundation differs, it should be mentioned or
linked from the OSM wiki. Any further discussions whether two licenses
are compatible and how relicensing of the content of Wikipedia works
should be discussed outside the wiki (at a blog, mailinglist or personal
website).

It happened as I expected. Verdy_p restored the deleted sections.

What is your opinion?

Best regards

Michael

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[Talk-GB] Prow_ref format

[Rob Nickerson]

>I recommended BY for consistency with the other two-letter
>abbreviations (FP, BR, RB) that were more universal.

+1

Given that there is little internal consistency within each LA and that
these are rarely even marked on the ground, my preference would be to stick
with the standard as described on the wiki unless this does not fit with a
LA.

For Warwickshire CC I [1] came to a different prow_ref than Robert W [2].
Where Robert went with just SD91a, I opted for FP Combrook SD91a as that
fitted with the wiki standard.

Finally, I understand that FP etc can be determined from the designation
tag but I do not see this as a reason to omit the data. It is useful to the
end user, just as the M in ref=M1 is for motorways!!

So, in summary, can't we just stick to what we previously agreed and
diverge only when this clearly doesn't work for a participial LA (or which
I expect that to be very rare).

Thanks,
Rob

[1] https://www.loomio.org/d/jUifS6tM/prow-map
[2]
http://robert.mathmos.net/osm/prow/progress/warks/stratford-on-avon/stratford-on-avon-rural-district/
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Re: [OSM-talk-be] Importing Villo! API data

[CedB12]

Hi Glenn,

I will respond to some of your points because they are relevant to my
contributions in this thread. At the end of this email I also comment on
a survey I made today of six stations in order to evaluate the quality
of the API data.

As far as I can tell from my survey, the station names returned by the
Villo! API in the "name" field are exactly what shows up at the
stations' locations. (On the other hand the website only shows the
"address" field, which contains a name that often matches the "name"
field, but not always.) The station names are not printed on the
infrastructure: they only show up on the dynamic displays. (Only the
reference number is physically printed on the station, along with
"bonus" if it is a bonus station.)

The full official name of (most) stations, as reported by the "name" API
field, follows the format of Yves' example: "076 - PLACE VAN MEENEN/VAN
MEENENPLEIN". Of course, in OSM we want to split that into two (or
three) components: ref and name (or ref, name:fr and name:nl). Note
however that this cannot be straightforwardly automated, unlike with the
Antwerp Velo API data. There are multiple reasons for this.

First of all, names are in all-caps and (partially) stripped from
accents, and turning that into properly capitalized names with no
missing accents is nontrivial. Second, many stations are misspelled or
don't follow the standard OSM practice of expanding abbreviations (e.g.
Place St Jean -> Place Saint-Jean). Third, there is the problem of
bilingual names: Dutch names are sometimes missing while a STIB/MIVB
station nearby (or some street, or some building) has the exact same
French name and an available Dutch translation. Moreover in a couple of
instances it is not so easy to split the French and Dutch names. For
example "255 - SACRE-COEUR DE/HEILIGE HART VAN GANSHOREN". Finally names
are limited to 50 characters, and we probably don't want to encode them
as-is even if that is the official name. For example "257 - PL
MARGHERITE D'AUTRICHE / MARGARETHA VAN OO".


When I saw all those issues I decided to go through the list of station
names and clean them up myself. I did a first pass using a dictionary I
built from OSM street names to translate all-caps words to
properly-capitalized words with accents. Then I went through the list by
hand to fix conversion mistakes, misspellings, and provide Dutch
translations when they were missing. The results are in my github
repository (see my previous message in this thread), and that is what I
propose we use in name, name:fr and name:nl tags.

I don't know how we can do QA on name tags given the quality of the
source data, but at the very least we can store the official name (in
all caps, maybe with the station number stripped off) in the
official_name tag. That way we can easily compare that field against the
API in the event that it changes. Sometimes the Villo! operators change
the name to include a notice that the station is closed for works, but
this can be filtered out, either by removing all text in parentheses or
ignoring name discrepancies on stations which are marked as "closed"
(which is another field in the API).


Given that the API names are the same as the names displayed
on-location, we can reliably use them for armchair mapping, so I
wouldn't say the API "just sucks and we shouldn't use it". The API also
reports station capacity and the possibility of card payment, which is
also useful.



I did a quick survey of six stations in Auderghem to compare the API
data to reality. Three stations had wrong coordinates (wrong street
block). I suppose they must have been correct at some point in the past,
but the stations have been moved since. However in two out of three
wrongly-located stations, the API "address" field pointed at the correct
house numbers. The third station was not in front of a house so the
"address" field only pointed out the street name.

I checked the "banking", "bonus" and "bike_stands" fields, which all
matched reality, as well as the sum of "available_bike_stands" and
"available_bikes". Note that sometimes this sum is not equal to
"bike_stands". I checked one of those stations (311 - Delta), where
bike_stands is 22 but available stands+bikes is 21. This is explained by
the fact that one of the stands is out of service, as indicated by a red
light on the stand. Strangely, last time I checked, one station in the
API (003 - Porte de Flandre / Vlaamsepoort) had four more available
bike+stands than "bike_stands", which makes no sense unless the station
was upgraded without updating the API field "bike_stands". I did not
survey that station.

As far as I could tell, the data reported on the interactive displays on
the stations matches the API data exactly (including the wrong
locations).

In conclusion, I think the "name" API field is perfectly OK to use after
cleanup. Columns "banking" and "bonus" matched in the six stations
surveyed. The "bike_stands" field seems to be static data, unlike

Re: [Talk-it] Open-gps tracker

[Matteo Fortini]

http://umap.openstreetmap.fr/it/ può essere un buon inizio

Il dom 5 nov 2017, 13:05 matteo ruffoni  ha scritto:

> ho una traccia gpx con foto allegate presa con open-gps tracker, dove
> posso caricarla per renderla poi una mappa stampabile e/o un lavoro
> modificabile dai miei studenti
>
> Saprei farlo ma a mano con crowdmap, c'è qualcosa di un po' più automatico?
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[Talk-it] Open-gps tracker

[matteo ruffoni]

ho una traccia gpx con foto allegate presa con open-gps tracker, dove posso
caricarla per renderla poi una mappa stampabile e/o un lavoro modificabile
dai miei studenti

Saprei farlo ma a mano con crowdmap, c'è qualcosa di un po' più automatico?
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Re: [Talk-GB] Prow_ref format

[Adam Snape]

Hi,

I agree with what Robert has said and think he has clarified many points
admirably. I think we need to be clear that in many cases what we will be
recording under prow_ref is a working reference used in the council's GIS
system, not part of the definitive official record of rights of way.

Colin asked about unparished areas. Where people refer to 'parishes' when
talking about the definitive maps they're usually talking about whatever
area was used to group the paths when the definitive maps were first drawn
up and paths numbered. In (then) parished areas this was usually the
parish, indeed parishes were individually responsible for drawing up the
draft maps and submitting them to the County Council. Paths in (then)
unparished areas were usually grouped by the relevant Urban District or
County Borough. With some exceptions these groupings usually remain to this
day. Even new paths added to the map  are usually grouped with these old
boundaries for consistency. Thus, the path recorded as Wiggington Bridleway
No. 7 might not fall in the current civil parish or unparished area of
Wiggington.

Regards,

Adam



On 4 Nov 2017 5:49 p.m., "Dave F"  wrote:

> Hi
>
> I've started adding Prow_ref=* to the paths within my Local Authority.
> I've been using the format as decided by them.
>
> I noticed another mapper has already added a few, but using the format by
> Barry Cornelius at rowmaps.com. I think this shouldn't be used as it's
> Barry's own concoction.
>
> As the LA is the organisation someone would most likely converse with
> about PROWs, it seemed sensible to use the format issued by them. It makes
> verification of any updates *much* easier.
>
> To check I looked at the wiki: https://wiki.openstreetmap.org
> /wiki/Key:prow_ref
>
> I wasn't really surprised to find another format recommended. A couple
> things appear wrong with this:
> * including the parish name in any format other than as issued by the LA
> will lead to confusion if their boundaries are amended
> * path abbreviations are unnecessary as their classifications are already
> defined in other OSM tags (highway & designation)
>
> Having a 'standard' within OSM seems counter productive as it would make
> it non-standard with the vast majority of LAs.
>
> Your thoughts?
>
> DaveF
>
> ---
> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
> https://www.avast.com/antivirus
>
>
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Re: [OSM-talk-fr] Ligne de bus Lila inexistante

[Jo]

Si quelqu'un a déjà mis un tag fixme=obsolete et tu es certain que la ligne
n'existe plus, le mieux est de supprimer ces relations. Sinon elles
resteront dans les rendus.

Au cas où les lignes de tram ne seraient pas encore dans la base OSM, tu
pourrais considérer de recycler ces relations, si le trajectoire est très
comparable, mais il n'est pas vraiment important de le faire.

Il y a toujours moyen de revenir en arrière, mais pour les relations
supprimées il faut vraiment savoir qui l'a supprimée et quand, ou connaître
le changeset.


Polyglot

2017-11-05 12:24 GMT+01:00 :

> Déjà si tu n'est pas complètement sûr, tu peux mettre un préfixe disused:
>
> disused:route=bus
>
> Est-ce que la ligne a entièrement disparu ?
> Après si on sait quel changeset l'a supprimé, on peut revenir dessus.
>
> Jean-Yvon
>
>
> Le 05/11/2017 à 12:08, Adrien Grellier - pe...@adrieng.fr a écrit :
>
> Bonjour,
>
> J'essaye de cartographier au mieux la ville de Sucé sur Erdre, au Nord
> de Nantes.
>
>
> Dans OpenStreetMap des lignes de bus régionale Lila passe à Sucé (ligne
> 40/41 notamment), mais ces lignes ont été supprimées il y a quelques
> années, avec l'arrivée du tram-train.
>
> Ces relations ont été marquées avec un FIXME=obsolete. Je suppose donc
> qu'on peut la supprimer tranquillement ?
>
> D'une manière générale, si je supprime une relation par erreur, il y a
> des moyens pour annuler ma suppression ?
>
>
> Bonne journée
>
> Adrien
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ___
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>
>
>
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Re: [OSM-talk-fr] BD Carthage (était osm13 ne répond(ait) plus...)

[osm . sanspourriel]

Il serait bon d'avoir la différence entre la version précédente et la 
version actuelle. Car du fait des réglementations dans certaines régions 
(pas la Bretagne) des agriculteurs style FNSEA ont réussi à déclassifier 
des rus en simples fossés histoire de pouvoir épandre des produits 
phytosanitaires jusqu'au bout du ru.


Je dis pas en Bretagne car là la SEPNB/Bretagne Vivante veillait au grain.

N. B. : pourrait servir à documenter sur OSM le changement de "nature" 
du cours d'eau.


Jean-Yvon


Le 04/11/2017 à 00:39, Christian Quest - cqu...@openstreetmap.fr a écrit :
Petit chantier du soir: j'ai mis à jour la BD Carthage qui sert à la 
couche "hydro"  avec la dernière version dispo... 2014.


Pour mémoire... 
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/WikiProject_France/BDCarthage


--
Christian Quest - OpenStreetMap France


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Re: [OSM-talk-fr] Ligne de bus Lila inexistante

[osm . sanspourriel]

Déjà si tu n'est pas complètement sûr, tu peux mettre un préfixe disused:

disused:route=bus

Est-ce que la ligne a entièrement disparu ?

Après si on sait quel changeset l'a supprimé, on peut revenir dessus.

Jean-Yvon

Le 05/11/2017 à 12:08, Adrien Grellier - pe...@adrieng.fr a écrit :

Bonjour,

J'essaye de cartographier au mieux la ville de Sucé sur Erdre, au Nord
de Nantes.


Dans OpenStreetMap des lignes de bus régionale Lila passe à Sucé (ligne
40/41 notamment), mais ces lignes ont été supprimées il y a quelques
années, avec l'arrivée du tram-train.

Ces relations ont été marquées avec un FIXME=obsolete. Je suppose donc
qu'on peut la supprimer tranquillement ?

D'une manière générale, si je supprime une relation par erreur, il y a
des moyens pour annuler ma suppression ?


Bonne journée

Adrien

















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Re: [OSM-talk-fr] Ligne de bus Lila inexistante

[Charles MILLET]

Bonjour Adrien,

Il me semble que si ces lignes n'existent définitivement plus (et le 
site Lila semble l'indiquer) tu peux supprimer les relations.


Normalement toute action détectée suffisamment tôt doit pouvoir être 
annulée avec un "/revert/"... j'imagine qu'il doit bien y avoir quelques 
exceptions pour confirmer la règle.


Bonne journée.

Charles MILLET
charlesmil...@free.fr

Le 05/11/2017 à 12:08, Adrien Grellier a écrit :

Bonjour,

J'essaye de cartographier au mieux la ville de Sucé sur Erdre, au Nord
de Nantes.


Dans OpenStreetMap des lignes de bus régionale Lila passe à Sucé (ligne
40/41 notamment), mais ces lignes ont été supprimées il y a quelques
années, avec l'arrivée du tram-train.

Ces relations ont été marquées avec un FIXME=obsolete. Je suppose donc
qu'on peut la supprimer tranquillement ?

D'une manière générale, si je supprime une relation par erreur, il y a
des moyens pour annuler ma suppression ?


Bonne journée

Adrien

















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[OSM-talk-fr] Ligne de bus Lila inexistante

[Adrien Grellier]

Bonjour,

J'essaye de cartographier au mieux la ville de Sucé sur Erdre, au Nord
de Nantes.


Dans OpenStreetMap des lignes de bus régionale Lila passe à Sucé (ligne
40/41 notamment), mais ces lignes ont été supprimées il y a quelques
années, avec l'arrivée du tram-train.

Ces relations ont été marquées avec un FIXME=obsolete. Je suppose donc
qu'on peut la supprimer tranquillement ?

D'une manière générale, si je supprime une relation par erreur, il y a
des moyens pour annuler ma suppression ?


Bonne journée

Adrien

















signature.asc
Description: OpenPGP digital signature
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[OSM-talk] CC0 in UK, CC0 in USA, sui generis database right and Wikidata

[Mateusz Konieczny]

tl;dr 

It may be not OK to import data from Wikidata despite that this
database is CC0 (adding wikipedia/wikidata tags is still OK, but this
connection is mostly useless for adding data into OSM).

It may be necessary to revert some imports of data from Wikidata



Note: it is likely that some of what I write below is misunderstanding,
I am not a lawyer. I would be happy to discover that I am wrong and
that Wikidata is usable for us.

In UK and EU putting effort into compiling a database grants a property
right called sui generis database right (very similar to copyright).

There is no protection like that in USA. A database may be protected by
copyright when the selection or arrangement is original and creative.

"One classic example of a database that is not protected by copyright
is a telephone directory. Arranging names, addresses, and telephone
numbers of subscribers in alphabetical order is not creative enough to
meet even the low threshold required for copyright protection. This is
true no matter how much work went into the creation of the telephone
directory, or any other database. Copyright law protects the creative
expression in a work, not the labor that went into its creation (or the
author’s "sweat of the brow" as it’s often referred to in the law)."

https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikilegal/Database_Rights
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sui_generis_database_right



So, it may be legal in USA to take database from EU and/or UK protected
by sui generis database, merge it with other databases and publish it
as CC0 database.

In addition, Wikidata seems to rely heavily on assumption that
individual facts are not protected by copyright so it is OK to copy
individual facts to build a database ("non-copyrightable facts").

As I understand doing this is legal in USA the resulting CC0
work would not be free to use in EU and/or UK due to sui generis
database right.



AFAIK Wikidata is one of examples where this happens and unfortunately
it is not OK to import data from this source - it is necessary to check
that used data does not include data from sources protected by EU
and/or UK property law (and there is no easy way to do that what makes
Wikidata mostly useless for importing data)



It also seems that unlike Wikimedia Commons that handles copyright
issues very well there is no documentation explaining how Wikidata data
may be used

Wikimedia Commons

good explanation of copyright issues:

https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:Reusing_content_outside_Wikimedia
https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:Copyright_rules

Wikidata

no explanation of copyright issues that I was able to find (either I
missed something of Wikidata community is not concerned about
copyright and other property laws):

https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata:Copyright
https://www.wikidata.org/w/index.php?title=Wikidata:Project_chat=576665752#Wikidata:Copyright_rules_.28AKA_-_is_Wikidata_CC0_in_Europe.3F.29

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Re: [Talk-GB] Prow_ref format

[Robert Whittaker (OSM lists)]

On 4 November 2017 at 17:49, Dave F  wrote:
> I've started adding Prow_ref=* to the paths within my Local Authority. I've
> been using the format as decided by them.
>
> I noticed another mapper has already added a few, but using the format by
> Barry Cornelius at rowmaps.com. I think this shouldn't be used as it's
> Barry's own concoction.
>
> As the LA is the organisation someone would most likely converse with about
> PROWs, it seemed sensible to use the format issued by them. It makes
> verification of any updates *much* easier.

I'd agree with that. However, one should be careful about drawing
conclusions about what the LA's official referencing system actually
is. The legal record of Rights of Way is held in the Definitive Map
and Statement, whereas we may well be using an electronic
representation of the definitive map for our mapping. In translating
the data to their computer systems, the LA may have altered the
reference format from that used on the Definitive Map. As others have
already noted, there are also inconsistencies in how an LA itself will
refer to their own paths.

> To check I looked at the wiki:
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:prow_ref
>
> I wasn't really surprised to find another format recommended. A couple
> things appear wrong with this:
> * including the parish name in any format other than as issued by the LA
> will lead to confusion if their boundaries are amended
> * path abbreviations are unnecessary as their classifications are already
> defined in other OSM tags (highway & designation)
>
> Having a 'standard' within OSM seems counter productive as it would make it
> non-standard with the vast majority of LAs.

Through my work with my tool at
http://robert.mathmos.net/osm/prow/progress/ it's obvious that
different LAs use different reference styles and with different
degrees of consistency. What is clear though is that in OSM we should
adopt a single format *within* each LA to ensure that our reference
values can be uniformly interpreted and processed. But I would agree
that we need to allow different formats to be used for different LAs.
The suggestion that you note in the wiki I think came from me, based
on an attempt to standardise the formats used by some of my local LAs
(Norfolk and Suffolk). Looking at the Definitive Map and Statements,
they weren't entirely consistent, but the suggestion of "Parish FP 12"
was the closest thing to a common standard I could see. IIRC, both BY
and BOAT were used interchangeably; I recommended BY for consistency
with the other two-letter abbreviations (FP, BR, RB) that were more
universal. The "Parish FP 12" suggestion was only intended for use
where there was not another obviously different de facto standard in
use by an LA. If that was the case, then I would expect the LA's own
format to take precedence.

Including the parish name is not redundant in numbering schemes where
numbers are only unique to a given parish. While the current parish
boundaries often align with the historic boundaries that were in
existence when the Rights of Way were recorded, some have changed over
time. LAs typically retain the original numbers and parishes when
boundaries change, but will often add any new paths with the correct
parish number. The result is that the parent parish cannot be
determined by geography (or the history of the geography) alone. A
"Footpath no 12" with the boundary of a particular current parish
might be numbered as part of that parish, or it might "belong" to a
neighbouring parish that included that land in years gone by. The
parish name is important, as it typically tells you in which file the
Definitive Statement for the route will be found.

Since I've added more counties to
http://robert.mathmos.net/osm/prow/progress/ I've added support for
(almost) arbitrary prow_ref formats, but each county needs to be
assigned exactly one. With the counties I've set up so far, it's
usually been obvious whether there's a different de facto standard
from the LA or not. But there were some edge cases, where I've perhaps
erred more towards my standard format that I should have done --
although some of that was based on existing use of formats in OSM. If
there are any disagreements with what I've gone with in my tool, then
please let me know.

Robert.

PS: I've just added Warwickshire Rights of Way to my tool at
http://robert.mathmos.net/osm/prow/progress/warks/ . The prow_ref
format used on their definitive map is XXnna where XX is a one or two
letter code for the historic borough/district, nn is a 1-3 digit
number, and a is an optional lower-case suffix. This is what my tool
will is currently detecingt for this county.

-- 
Robert Whittaker

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Re: [Talk-cz] Hromadne pridani adres + jak jednoduse pridat routy busu

[majka]

V JOSM jde obojí relativně dobře.

Je třeba pluginy  -  v případě zájmu dohledám názvy a sepíšu postup
přesněji.

Detailněji:

Pro POI je třeba goekodovat adresu,  dělala jsem to u poštovních schránek
pomocí online služby,  existují samozřejmě i jiné možnosti. Připravit
textový soubor s lat, lon a tagy,  a pomocí pluginu načíst do samostatné
vrstvy.  Po jednom projít a potvrdit správné umístění - opět nejlépe plugin
TODO,  který umožňuje vybrat slupinu a po jednom snadno potvrzovat.

Pro MHD pluginy PT...cosi. Opět nejlépe v samostatné vrstvě. Pokud nová
relace,  založit jí jen s konečnými zastávkami a hned nahrát - v nejhorším
se pak vrátit k téhle fázi.  Pak doporučuji samostatně zastávky (platform),
 nahrát,  a nakonec přidat trasu jako takovou.
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Re: [Talk-cz] Hromadne pridani adres + jak jednoduse pridat routy busu

[Jan Martinec]

Ahoj,

co se týče hromadného bagrování dat z webů do OSM, to rozhodně _není_
licenčně kompatibilní. Je potřeba explicitní (a písemný) souhlas toho
kterého webu, nebo kompatibilita tamní licence s ODbL ("všechna práva
vyhrazena" je prakticky opak souhlasu).

Co se týče té dopravy - od zahájení permanentní dopravní revoluce v roce
2012 se to mění furt. Obávám se, že z GTFS to nevyleze ani poloautomaticky,
resp. nebude to dobře pasovat na OSM data - leda by se to dalo použít jako
notifikace "a tady se zase změnilo vedení týhle linky, tuhle zrušili a
tamta přibyla."

Ale mapování "dej mi možnou  cestu ze zastávky A do zastávky B, já to
přikliknu do relace" by asi šlo udělat jako plugin do JOSM. Nelze plně
automatizovat - někde autobus jede mimo civilní trasu, protože má vyhrazený
pruh (Spořilov - Teplárna Michle), někde volí o fous delší průjezd kvůli
šířce etc. (ta linka skrz Staré Město?), tj. vždy vyžaduje přinejmenším
porovnání s GTFS nebo místní znalost.

Zdar,
Honza Piškvor Martinec

Dne 5. 11. 2017 10:21 napsal uživatel :

> Zdravim,
>
>
> v mapach chybaju POI, ktore je mozne (asi nominatimom?) jednoducho
> skonvertovat zo zoznamov adries na webe...
>
> Napr. DM drogerie: http://www.dm-drogeriemarkt.cz
> /cz_homepage/688136/filialfinder.html?view=asMarketfinder=praha
> prip. https://www.zasilkovna.cz/pobocky?limit=all=1=Update
>
>
> Riesilo sa to tu uz niekedy? Problem s licenciou by snad nemal byt...
>
>
>
>
> Druha vec - autobusove a pod. routy napr. v Prahe su dost out-of-date. Ale
> popravde, minule som sa pokusal zeditovat jeden bus relation a v JOSM aj iD
> to bolo peklo, ze som nezvladol ani zmazat neaktualne casti.
>
> Neexistuje nejaky tool, ktory by napr. pouzil OSRM, s tym ze by sa tam len
> zadali "pruchozi body"? Napr. autobusove zastavky, a prip. krizovatky...
> Uplne idealne by bolo asi umoznit znacit routy len pomocou tych zastavok,
> lebo je to na hranici udrzovatelnosti...
>
>
>
> --
> Diky,
>
> Andrej
>
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Re: [Talk-cz] Hromadne pridani adres + jak jednoduse pridat routy busu

[Jethro]

Zdar,
ad busy: resili jsme to na nejakem OSM pive, Krakonos se tvaril, ze
neco zkusi udelat, ale nevim, jestli se to od te doby nekam posunulo
;-) Data pro Prahu jsou od DPP i s nejakymi shapefily, ale ty jsou
dost nepresne.
MSF
Jethro

2017-11-05 10:20 GMT+01:00  :
> Zdravim,
>
>
> v mapach chybaju POI, ktore je mozne (asi nominatimom?) jednoducho
> skonvertovat zo zoznamov adries na webe...
>
> Napr. DM drogerie:
> http://www.dm-drogeriemarkt.cz/cz_homepage/688136/filialfinder.html?view=asMarketfinder=praha
> prip. https://www.zasilkovna.cz/pobocky?limit=all=1=Update
>
>
> Riesilo sa to tu uz niekedy? Problem s licenciou by snad nemal byt...
>
>
>
>
> Druha vec - autobusove a pod. routy napr. v Prahe su dost out-of-date. Ale
> popravde, minule som sa pokusal zeditovat jeden bus relation a v JOSM aj iD
> to bolo peklo, ze som nezvladol ani zmazat neaktualne casti.
>
> Neexistuje nejaky tool, ktory by napr. pouzil OSRM, s tym ze by sa tam len
> zadali "pruchozi body"? Napr. autobusove zastavky, a prip. krizovatky...
> Uplne idealne by bolo asi umoznit znacit routy len pomocou tych zastavok,
> lebo je to na hranici udrzovatelnosti...
>
>
>
> --
> Diky,
>
> Andrej
>
> ___
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[OSM-talk-fr] determiner la projection d une carte

[THEVENON Julien]

Bonjour,

J ai une image d une carte (300 pixel par 300 pixel environ) et j aimerai 
determiner quelle est sa projection.
J ai tenté une regle de 3 entre les coordonnees en pixel et celles en lambert 
de 93 de 2 villes tres eloignees (Lochrist et Antibes) mais quand j applique l 
operation inverse a Biarritz j obtiens les coordonnees d un pixel trop a l 
Ouest (dans l atlantique). Je suppose donc que c est pas du Lambert93.


Est ce que quelqu un aurait une idee de methode pour retrouver la projection?

Pour faire la conversion wgs84 vers Lambert j ai pense e tourner vers gdal (il 
me semble que c est THE library pour ce genre de chose) mais quand j ai lu la 
doc sur les changements de projection j ai vu des descriptions de systemes de 
coordonnees sous forme de string incomprehensibles pour le non geomaticien que 
je suis donc j ai renoncé.est ce que quelqu un aurait une suggestion ou un lien 
sur un bon tuto qui expliquerait comment faire ça via les APIs C/Python ou meme 
en ligne de commande ?
Pour l essai en Lambert 93 j ai repris une formule en C#  trouvee sur un forum

Mon but final est de determiner a partir d une coordonee de chaque ville 
francaise le pixel correspondant,sa couleur pour generer ensuite en csv 
contenant une valeur pour chaque ville que j afficherais dans umap.

Merci d avance
Julien

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[Talk-cz] Hromadne pridani adres + jak jednoduse pridat routy busu

[lists]

Zdravim,


v mapach chybaju POI, ktore je mozne (asi nominatimom?) jednoducho 
skonvertovat zo zoznamov adries na webe...


Napr. DM drogerie: 
http://www.dm-drogeriemarkt.cz/cz_homepage/688136/filialfinder.html?view=asMarketfinder=praha

prip. https://www.zasilkovna.cz/pobocky?limit=all=1=Update


Riesilo sa to tu uz niekedy? Problem s licenciou by snad nemal byt...




Druha vec - autobusove a pod. routy napr. v Prahe su dost out-of-date. 
Ale popravde, minule som sa pokusal zeditovat jeden bus relation a v 
JOSM aj iD to bolo peklo, ze som nezvladol ani zmazat neaktualne casti.


Neexistuje nejaky tool, ktory by napr. pouzil OSRM, s tym ze by sa tam 
len zadali "pruchozi body"? Napr. autobusove zastavky, a prip. 
krizovatky... Uplne idealne by bolo asi umoznit znacit routy len pomocou 
tych zastavok, lebo je to na hranici udrzovatelnosti...




--
Diky,

Andrej

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[OSM-talk-fr] determiner la projection d jne

[THEVENON Julien]

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Re: [Talk-GB] Prow_ref format

[Colin Smale]

On 2017-11-05 00:52, Dave F wrote:

> Hi
> 
> Comments inline.
> 
> On 04/11/2017 20:07, Adam Snape wrote: 
> 
>> Hi,
>> 
>> I'm of the view that using a standard format would be rather unlikely to 
>> result in confusion in correspondence with the LA, but am equally happy with 
>> using the LA's version. Some thoughts:
>> 
>> 1.  We definitely shouldn't attempt to amend the definitive map 'parish' to 
>> correspond to modern civil parish boundaries. That could cause problems.
> 
> Could you clarify what you mean by "modern civil parish boundaries".

Or what you otherwise mean by "definitive map 'parish'". 

> 2. A standardized format could make it easier for data consumers to utilise 
> the tagged information.
> I believe all LAs (admin_level=6) and parishes (admin_level=10) have been 
> added so the 'standardised' as described on the wiki contains no unique data 
> that can't be retrieved from within osm.

The CP coverage is very good in the south and midlands but is largely
absent in the (far) north of England. I am working on it 

How do the LA's tag footpaths in unparished areas?___
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Re: [OSM-talk-fr] Importation des hauteurs de bâtiments sur Montpellier

[Christian Quest]

N'importe qui peut faire un revert... il n'y a que la "redaction" qu'un
admin peut faire, c'est à dire faire disparaitre aussi une info au niveau
des historiques.


Vincent... il faut que tu sache corriger toi même un import ou une édition
automatisée si besoin.
C'est le minimum à connaitre avant de s'engager dans ce genre de choses,
sinon tu te fera taper sur les doigts (à juste titre).


Pour l'ODbL, c'est effectivement un peu ridicule et participe de la
politique anti-import de certains.

Ceci dit, les collectivités françaises qui ont opté pour l'ODbL, devraient
en principe revoir ce choix, car il n'est pas forcément bien légal... (cf
mes slides du dernier SOTM "ODbL... oui mais").


Le 4 novembre 2017 à 23:29, Vincent Frison  a
écrit :

> Le 4 novembre 2017 à 23:06, marc marc  a écrit
> :
>
>> Tu peux pas identifier les bâtiments où mmt = 0 ?
>>
>
> Si si tout est dans les logs...
>
>
>> Sinon y a le revert plugin
>>
>
> Ah super je vais regarder ça, en fait je pensais que c'était un truc
> réservé aux admins...
>
>
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>
>


-- 
Christian Quest - OpenStreetMap France
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