Re: [OSM-ja] CC0データのインポート(GTFSデータ)

[OKADA Tsuneo]

岡田です。

いいださん、コメントありがとうございます。

私の言葉が少し足りていませんでしたが、「データ提供元への追加了承は不要ですよね？」
という意味での質問でした。
いいださんに示していただいたOSM側の手順については認識しておりますので、
大丈夫です。

私の場合インポート用のデータを作成するのが一番大変そうです。。
(QGISを触ってみるところから？)


2020年12月14日(月) 12:25 Satoshi IIDA :

> いいだです。
>
> > CC0で公開のデータについてはインポートしても問題ないという認識で良いでしょうか？
> いいえ、残念ながら、ライセンスの互換性だけでは、インポートの作業を行うことはできません。
> インポート作業を行うためには、インポートガイドラインに従い、
> 必要な情報（ライセンス、作業方法、作業責任者の情報など）をまとめた上で、
> その地域ローカル（日本だと、このtalk-jaメーリングリスト）と、
> 全世界のImportsメーリングリストで合意を得る必要があります。
>
> インポートガイドライン:
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/JA:%E3%82%A4%E3%83%B3%E3%83%9D%E3%83%BC%E3%83%88/%E3%82%AC%E3%82%A4%E3%83%89%E3%83%A9%E3%82%A4%E3%83%B3
> 書き方の例（位置参照情報）:
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/MLIT_ISJ/import2019_outline
>
> 先日、MIERUNEさんからQGISでGTFSを読み込むプラグインが公開され、
> OSMで使える形式への変換も楽になってきていると思うので、
> もし進められると嬉しいですね。
> （CC0で追加了承を得る手間が無いのも素晴らしいです！）
>
>
>
> 2020年12月13日(日) 20:49 OKADA Tsuneo :
>
>> 岡田です。
>>
>> データのインポートについて確認です。
>>
>> バス会社のGTFSデータでいくつか、CC0のライセンスのものがあります。
>> (富山県、山梨県、岡山県などの一部の会社)
>>
>> CC0で公開のデータについてはインポートしても問題ないという認識で良いでしょうか？
>>
>> --
>> 岡田常雄(OKADA Tsuneo)
>> tsuneo.ok...@gmail.com
>> ___
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>> Talk-ja@openstreetmap.org
>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ja
>>
>
>
> --
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> mail: nyamp...@gmail.com
> twitter: @nyampire
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Re: [OSRM-talk] inject request to OSRM

[Nikhil VJ]

Hi Evangelos,

The actual OSRM is a backend api - you can see its docs here:
http://project-osrm.org/docs/v5.23.0/api/#

The frontend is a separate application made for demo purposes which uses
the same api.
Hit F12 to show browser console, go to Network > XHR. And then do some
routing on the map. You'll get to see the structure of the api calls and
work from there.

--
Cheers,
Nikhil VJ
https://nikhilvj.co.in


On Thu, Dec 10, 2020 at 4:27 PM evangelos spyrou 
wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> We are in the middle of a project where we have to manually inject a
> request to our local OSRM server. Essentially, we want to make a routing
> request via the terminal (using a python script for example) from a
> specific IP and update the frontend at that PC.
>
> The question is how to inject a request to the OSRM server (not from the
> frontend).
>
> Thanks in advance.
>
> Kind Regards
>
> Evangelos
>
>
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Re: [Talk-in] OSM India Telegram -> Matrix Bridge

[Aruna S]

Have some leads on server space, will follow up with them, and keep the
community posted about any developments. Meanwhile, if you have any
additional resources please do share them here!
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[OSM-talk-ie] https://ohsome.org/apps/dashboard/

[Colm Moore]

Hi,

This tool https://ohsome.org/apps/dashboard/ shows how particular tags have 
developed quantity-wise over the years. You can for example see how 
highway=trunk has changed over time, by number of objects, length of way, etc. 
You can see that we have gone from 600,000 buildings in December 2018 to 
900,000 buildings in December 2019 to 1,350,000 buildings in December 2020 (50% 
growth rate each year). You can even track the total floor area of those mapped 
buildings over time (238,000,000m2 to date). You can select countries or 
various types of polygon to search in.

After being a few months behind for a time, it is now up to date to 5 December 
2020.

Some searches are resource-intensive, so try NOT to 'break' it! :)

Colm



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Re: [OSM-ja] CC0データのインポート(GTFSデータ)

[Satoshi IIDA]

いいだです。

> CC0で公開のデータについてはインポートしても問題ないという認識で良いでしょうか？
いいえ、残念ながら、ライセンスの互換性だけでは、インポートの作業を行うことはできません。
インポート作業を行うためには、インポートガイドラインに従い、
必要な情報（ライセンス、作業方法、作業責任者の情報など）をまとめた上で、
その地域ローカル（日本だと、このtalk-jaメーリングリスト）と、
全世界のImportsメーリングリストで合意を得る必要があります。

インポートガイドライン:
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/JA:%E3%82%A4%E3%83%B3%E3%83%9D%E3%83%BC%E3%83%88/%E3%82%AC%E3%82%A4%E3%83%89%E3%83%A9%E3%82%A4%E3%83%B3
書き方の例（位置参照情報）:
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/MLIT_ISJ/import2019_outline

先日、MIERUNEさんからQGISでGTFSを読み込むプラグインが公開され、
OSMで使える形式への変換も楽になってきていると思うので、
もし進められると嬉しいですね。
（CC0で追加了承を得る手間が無いのも素晴らしいです！）



2020年12月13日(日) 20:49 OKADA Tsuneo :

> 岡田です。
>
> データのインポートについて確認です。
>
> バス会社のGTFSデータでいくつか、CC0のライセンスのものがあります。
> (富山県、山梨県、岡山県などの一部の会社)
>
> CC0で公開のデータについてはインポートしても問題ないという認識で良いでしょうか？
>
> --
> 岡田常雄(OKADA Tsuneo)
> tsuneo.ok...@gmail.com
> ___
> Talk-ja mailing list
> Talk-ja@openstreetmap.org
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ja
>


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Re: [Diversity-talk] Etiquette Guidelines bad | Re: Code of conduct

[arnalie faye vicario]

The current Etiquette Guidelines is not enough. By the title, it is just a
"guideline"  - a suggestion or a piece of advice.

We really need a *CODE* of Conduct that is enforceable with a committed
moderator or working group.

 As a non-native English speaker, I have to look up the definitions in the
dictionary to confirm.


=Arnalie

On Thu, Dec 10, 2020 at 1:06 AM Mikel Maron  wrote:

> The etiquette guidelines have issues, but I’m not sure that’s one. If
> there was moderation and enforcement in place, than we wouldn’t need to
> call out publicly. Moderator could step in to do that. Prefer that way of
> handling it.
>
> Mikel
>
> On Wednesday, December 9, 2020, 11:33 AM, Rory McCann <
> r...@technomancy.org> wrote:
>
> Have any of yous read the Ettiquette Guidelines¹? They're rubbish.
>
> Frederik broke them by publically calling Mike Migurski out, and for not
> assuming he was acting in good faith. *But* if anyone publishes something
> saying “What Frederik did was wrong” (like I (& others) did), then they are
> also breaking the Ettiquette Guidelines! That's a horrible outcome!
>
> ¹ https://wiki.osmfoundation.org/wiki/Etiquette
>
> On Wed, 9 Dec 2020, at 16:57, Maggie Cawley wrote:
> > I am so happy to see this thread. I believe it will take all of us
> > coming together and speaking with a unified voice to bring upon the
> > change we need at the global level. As Clifford mentioned, a few of us
> > from the LCCWG met on Monday to start talking about next steps. It's
> > not about one statement, but rather that discussions and comments like
> > those from this past week affect us all as we work to build diverse
> > communities around the world.
> >
> > Rob, Clifford and I discussed the need for a CoC, but when Rob pointed
> > out the Etiquette Guidelines exist and are pretty widely accepted it
> > seems like a logical place to start. It would also enable us to move a
> > bit more quickly since the document exists and won't need many rounds
> > of community feedback. What is missing is the process for moderation
> > and a committee available to moderate any complaints on breaches of
> > etiquette. It would be helpful to review and suggest edits to the
> > existing guidelines during this process as well. For the US CoC it took
> > about 8 months to finalize the CoC and moderation process, and find
> > volunteers for a committee.
> >
> > I look forward to growing the conversation. Thanks Heather for starting
> > this thread here and to all of you who are stepping forward!
> >
> > Maggie Cawley
> >
> >
> > On Tue, 8 Dec 2020 at 21:30, arnalie faye vicario 
> wrote:
> > > Hello/*Kumusta*,
> > >
> > > *Salamat*/Thanks everyone for continuing the conversations and taking
> this seriously.
> > >
> > > It is good to speak up and comment about it in our individual
> capacities, but a collective can build a fire  (charcoal comparison).
> > >
> > > This is what we did in OSM PH's Call to Correct Narratives About
> Geospatial Work in the Philippines (re: Amazon-HOT video).  <
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/w/images/a/aa/A_Call_to_Correct_Narratives_about_Geospatial_Work.pdf
> >
> > >
> > > Also, I would like to quote and highlight what David Garcia
> (@mapmakerdavid) has shared in Twitter:
> > >> It is not just the maps that matters. Who *makes* the maps matters.
> Who *tells* the stories of the mapping matters, too. Who *LEADS* the
> mapping and storytelling also matters. Who *gets powerful* due to the
> mapping and storytelling matters most.
> > >
> > > Thank you Geochicas, Celine @mapeadora, Heather, Rebecca, Miriam
> @mapanauta, Nelson Minar, LCCWG Group, OSMF past/present Board members
> (Kate, Rory and Mikel), HOT Community WG and everyone who expressed support
> and has spoken up (apologies if I missed your name). It is really
> encouraging and inspiring. Please add your thoughts in the document:
> https://docs.google.com/document/d/130JCTX9ve4H4ORXznmIVTpXiN3TX8nRGA8ayuTZ9ECI/edit
> > >
> > > In case you missed it (like me), here is what Celine sent in the OSM
> talk mailing list:
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk/2020-December/085727.html.
> > >
> > > Let us keep the fire burning!
> > >
> > > =Arnalie
> > >
> > > On Wed, Dec 9, 2020 at 5:54 AM Clifford Snow 
> wrote:
> > >> I should mention that what we, Maggie Crawely, Rob Nickerson and
> myself, want to accomplish is to create a committee to moderate the
> existing etiquette guidelines and later update the guidelines to reflect
> best practices of Code of Conducts.We planned to form a sub committee under
> the LCCWG since CoC is critical to Local Chapters. We did a survey of Local
> Chapters and those considering forming one. The results showed that 5 LC
> already had a CoC, 6 did not and 6 were consider or in a discussion to have
> a CoC.
> > >>
> > >> Clifford
> > >>
> > >> On Tue, Dec 8, 2020 at 1:36 PM Heather Leson 
> wrote:
> > >>> Always
> > >>> Heather Leson
> > >>> heatherle...@gmail.com
> > >>> Twitter/skype: HeatherLeson
> 

Re: [OSM-legal-talk] Brexit & EU database rights

[Simon Poole]

My understanding is that 58.2 covers the rights of UK based entities, with 
other words it extends the directives article 11 to cover UK residents and 
entities.

Am 14. Dezember 2020 00:11:25 MEZ schrieb Tom Hummel via legal-talk 
:
>Simon,
>
>sorry for reopening.
>
>> This was the subject of the original message in this thread. The 
>> situation post December 31st 2020 is such that protection for sui 
>> generis databases will remain for database published before that date
>in 
>> the UK till the protection term runs out. In the case of OSM when the
>15 
>
>Thanks, I see you are referring to art. 58 of the withdrawal agreement
>https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/?qid=1580206007232=CELEX%3A12019W/TXT%2802%29
>
>The UK government explains this as follows: “Database rights that exist
>in the UK or EEA before 1 January 2021 (whether held by UK or EEA
>persons or businesses) *will continue* to exist in the UK *and EEA* for
>the rest of their duration.”
>
>As far as I understand the article, however, there is protection within
>the UK for European entities. Yet, I can’t find a provision which
>covers the issue vice versa, i.e. an UK entity would loose protection
>within EEA.
>
>I think the accepted term for this is ’reciprocity gap’. I am not sure
>if my understanding of english legal communications is good enough for
>this.
>
>The 15y period was not intended to provide protection against change of
>law. I suppose it’s a protection of investment for a certain amount of
>time. Without EU membership the premises for the law changes. According
>to this, OSMF might loose standing in respect to the directive in
>german courts. (EEA too?)
>
>Thanks
>
>Tom
>
>
>
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Re: [OSM-legal-talk] Brexit & EU database rights

[Tom Hummel via legal-talk]

Simon,

sorry for reopening.

> This was the subject of the original message in this thread. The 
> situation post December 31st 2020 is such that protection for sui 
> generis databases will remain for database published before that date in 
> the UK till the protection term runs out. In the case of OSM when the 15 

Thanks, I see you are referring to art. 58 of the withdrawal agreement
https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/?qid=1580206007232=CELEX%3A12019W/TXT%2802%29

The UK government explains this as follows: “Database rights that exist in the 
UK or EEA before 1 January 2021 (whether held by UK or EEA persons or 
businesses) *will continue* to exist in the UK *and EEA* for the rest of their 
duration.”

As far as I understand the article, however, there is protection within the UK 
for European entities. Yet, I can’t find a provision which covers the issue 
vice versa, i.e. an UK entity would loose protection within EEA.

I think the accepted term for this is ’reciprocity gap’. I am not sure if my 
understanding of english legal communications is good enough for this.

The 15y period was not intended to provide protection against change of law. I 
suppose it’s a protection of investment for a certain amount of time. Without 
EU membership the premises for the law changes. According to this, OSMF might 
loose standing in respect to the directive in german courts. (EEA too?)

Thanks

Tom



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Re: [OSM-legal-talk] Brexit & EU database rights

[Simon Poole]

Am 13.12.2020 um 22:43 schrieb Edward Bainton:

Ok, so let me rephrase about 'moving the database'.

I mean moving the domicile of OSMF, as legal owner of the database. 
This is being discussed. (See LWG minutes for September)


Does anyone have a clear idea what that would do for the protection of 
the database as it currently stands? Would it be strengthened versus 
the protection that covers the database at the moment (which is 15 
years of UK database right mimicking EU database right, under the 
Brexit 'withdrawal agreement'. It seems the start-date of those 15 
years is unclear).


Or does the current database not get any greater protection once the 
owner is domiciled in the EU?


IMHO the above questions are unanswerable at the moment, the fuzziness 
with respect to when we consider the database last published is however 
really not related to the BREXIT question, but more to the provisions in 
article 10 which I've already pointed to. Would the OSMF successor be 
required to show that it had made changes as in 10 III to the database 
after it had been founded and domiciled in the EU? There is really just 
no way to know and nobody is chomping at the bit to go to court to find out.


What does moving domicile to the EU do for the protection of the edits 
added to the database after domicile has moved into the EU - are these 
protected under the EU database rights or not? I feel this question 
reduces to,

- are the edits a new database to which EU database rights attach?
- or are they insubstantial modifications of a database that came into 
the EU without EU database rights attached, and therefore the new 
edits are not covered by EU database right?


The database as a whole is protected, not the edits (outside of 
potentially collectively being a database themself). Making 
insubstantial changes to the database doesn't change protection of its 
contents or newly added or changed data, making substantial changes will 
create a new database.




Are these questions clear?

(Not that OSMF can strictly *move* domicile: it will have to register 
a subsidiary legal person in an EU country, move its intellectual 
property into the subsidary, then possibly admit all current OSMF 
members as members of the subsidary and close the parent (ie, close 
the current London-registered OSMF. Or an equivalent process.)


If it was easy it would have been done a long time ago. The additional 
complication is that I expect (who knows what the OSMF board is 
thinking) that we would want to create a proper membership based 
organisation which, using a broad brush here, can't be subsidiaries of 
other legal entities.


Simon



On Sun, 13 Dec 2020 at 20:52, Simon Poole > wrote:



Am 13.12.2020 um 20:12 schrieb Tom Hummel via legal-talk:
> Hi all,
>
> Am Sonntag, 13. Dezember 2020, 15:58:48 CET schrieb Simon Poole:
>> The relevant bit of the directive is in article 11. As you can
see the
>> rights are dependent on being domiciled in the EU, not on the
physical
>> location of the "database". I would need to check up on the UK
> Do the legal contributors have formed an opinion towards this,
already?
>
> Seeing the Foundation being situated in the UK, and the absence
of any agreement acc. to art. 11 III, it looks like the foundation
is loosing its entitlement acc. to art. 11 II of the directive.

This was the subject of the original message in this thread. The
situation post December 31st 2020 is such that protection for sui
generis databases will remain for database published before that
date in
the UK till the protection term runs out. In the case of OSM when
the 15
years start is naturally a bit fuzzy, but at least the reworking
of the
database in 2012 for the licence change was clearly a substantial
change
that required a significant investment by the OSMF, so it is
reasonable
to assume that protection will remain at least till September 2026
(IMHO
there are more than enough arguments for December 2034, but I suspect
that will be moot by 26).

Simon

>
> German courts adhere to the „modified seat of management rule“
since 2002 (BGH NJW 2002, 3539), meaning some capacity to sue and
be sued. OTOTH liability for associates is personal and unrestricted.
>
> For Germany, it looks like there is some entitlement on behalf
of FOSSGIS. The governing agreement (OpenStreetMap Foundation
Local Chapters Agreement) does not grant any derivative rights
without additional agreement, § 7.1 Conduct.
>
> Am I missing something?
>
> Tom
>
>
>
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Re: [Talk-GB] map styles on osm.org; other sites (was: Re: driveway-becomes-track)

[Edward Bainton]

I keep hearing snagging issues that *might* be resolved by a more federal
OSM, in the map presentation as well as in the organisational structure.

Is that something that's ever been considered?

On Sun, 13 Dec 2020 at 13:40, Nick  wrote:

> Totally agree that openstreetmap.org isn't supposed to be a "general
> public" map destination but without knowing user journeys, I assume that is
> where most people land.
>
> Options could be that openstreetmap.org provide alternative links based
> on locality and/or develop robust (N.B. tiles from opencyclemap.org seems
> to have security issue) local solutions that are found by search engines
> (i.e. good search engine optimisation)
> On 13/12/2020 12:12, Andy Townsend wrote:
>
>
> On 13/12/2020 11:16, Mateusz Konieczny via Talk-GB wrote:
>
> Note that someone who wants to show their map style at OSM website can
> be included, though they must sponsor hosting
>
> See
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Featured_tile_layers/Guidelines_for_new_tile_layers
>
> As far as I know, the main blocker seems to be
> "Capable of meeting traffic demands. The proposed tile layer server/server
> farm
> must be capable of accepting the traffic volume from the OpenStreetMap
> website."
>
> ÖPNVKarte is map style that joined recently.
>
> Dec 13, 2020, 12:08 by n...@foresters.org:
>
> Seems to me that apart from the tagging, the issue highlighted here is
> with how the general public can easily use OSM? Going to the OSM map, the
> layers on offer are Standard, Cycle Map (which does show the driveway
> connected) etc. but if a user wants a more specific use this is not easy to
> find. To my mind this is where more options from the worldwide map fail to
> deliver and is a bigger issue that can be resolved by understanding the
> 'customer' journey better?
>
> The main blocker for a map that shows public footpaths etc. would actually
> be the "Global scope and coverage" requirement on that page, since public
> footpaths only exist in England and Wales.
>
> It used to be possible to easily replace tiles from one of the map styles
> at osm.org with another one, but since the move to https-only tiles
> that's now much harder to do.  You can replace (say)
> https://map.atownsend.org.uk/hot/9/253/166.png with
> https://tile-a.openstreetmap.fr/hot/9/253/166.png at the hosts file
> level, but need to click through a "scary browser warning" every few days.
>
> More generally openstreetmap.org isn't really designed as a "general
> public" map destination, which is fair enough (it can't do everything).
> It's easy to make suggestions like "it should do X as well" - the tricky
> bit is actually doing it and maintaining it.  I'd definitely prefer a
> project landing page that's closer to the German one
> https://openstreetmap.de/ , but I don't have the skills, energy, time or
> enthusiasm to make that happen.  I particularly like the "showroom" there -
> a link to lots of different map styles, separate from the main
> openstreetmap.de map.
>
> Another example that is surely worth mentioning here is
> https://cycle.travel - that's designed for a particular use case.  I
> suspect that most people become aware of OSM by seeing the name at the
> bottom-right of a completely different site that someone sent them to
> because it was useful.  Another indication of this is the number of help
> questions that we see where people are having problems with "the
> openstreetmap app" or "the site gives an error" (and that site clearly
> isn't openstreetmap.org).
>
> Best Regards,
>
> Andy
>
>
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Re: [OSM-legal-talk] Brexit & EU database rights

[Edward Bainton]

Ok, so let me rephrase about 'moving the database'.

I mean moving the domicile of OSMF, as legal owner of the database. This is
being discussed. (See LWG minutes for September)

Does anyone have a clear idea what that would do for the protection of the
database as it currently stands? Would it be strengthened versus the
protection that covers the database at the moment (which is 15 years of UK
database right mimicking EU database right, under the Brexit 'withdrawal
agreement'. It seems the start-date of those 15 years is unclear).

Or does the current database not get any greater protection once the owner
is domiciled in the EU?

What does moving domicile to the EU do for the protection of the edits
added to the database after domicile has moved into the EU - are these
protected under the EU database rights or not? I feel this question reduces
to,
- are the edits a new database to which EU database rights attach?
- or are they insubstantial modifications of a database that came into the
EU without EU database rights attached, and therefore the new edits are not
covered by EU database right?

Are these questions clear?

(Not that OSMF can strictly *move* domicile: it will have to register a
subsidiary legal person in an EU country, move its intellectual property
into the subsidary, then possibly admit all current OSMF members as members
of the subsidary and close the parent (ie, close the current
London-registered OSMF. Or an equivalent process.)

On Sun, 13 Dec 2020 at 20:52, Simon Poole  wrote:

>
> Am 13.12.2020 um 20:12 schrieb Tom Hummel via legal-talk:
> > Hi all,
> >
> > Am Sonntag, 13. Dezember 2020, 15:58:48 CET schrieb Simon Poole:
> >> The relevant bit of the directive is in article 11. As you can see the
> >> rights are dependent on being domiciled in the EU, not on the physical
> >> location of the "database". I would need to check up on the UK
> > Do the legal contributors have formed an opinion towards this, already?
> >
> > Seeing the Foundation being situated in the UK, and the absence of any
> agreement acc. to art. 11 III, it looks like the foundation is loosing its
> entitlement acc. to art. 11 II of the directive.
>
> This was the subject of the original message in this thread. The
> situation post December 31st 2020 is such that protection for sui
> generis databases will remain for database published before that date in
> the UK till the protection term runs out. In the case of OSM when the 15
> years start is naturally a bit fuzzy, but at least the reworking of the
> database in 2012 for the licence change was clearly a substantial change
> that required a significant investment by the OSMF, so it is reasonable
> to assume that protection will remain at least till September 2026 (IMHO
> there are more than enough arguments for December 2034, but I suspect
> that will be moot by 26).
>
> Simon
>
> >
> > German courts adhere to the „modified seat of management rule“ since
> 2002 (BGH NJW 2002, 3539), meaning some capacity to sue and be sued. OTOTH
> liability for associates is personal and unrestricted.
> >
> > For Germany, it looks like there is some entitlement on behalf of
> FOSSGIS. The governing agreement (OpenStreetMap Foundation Local Chapters
> Agreement) does not grant any derivative rights without additional
> agreement, § 7.1 Conduct.
> >
> > Am I missing something?
> >
> > Tom
> >
> >
> >
> > ___
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Re: [Talk-GB] Tagging bike ramp/ bike path down steps

[Chris Hodges]

There are no relations set for that stretch or the adjacent ones, so 
I'll try to sort that out for at least that bit of NCR45.  It's 
definitely signposted (including the need to dismount)


Chris

On 13/12/2020 19:55, Mateusz Konieczny via Talk-GB wrote:


Dec 13, 2020, 20:52 by talk-gb@openstreetmap.org:

Dec 13, 2020, 19:50 by ch...@c-hodges.co.uk:

So how should this be tagged to indicate that the bike route
really does go down the steps?

Add them to bike route relation.


Obviously it applies only if there is some signed bicycle route there.

If it is just part of cycleway system, without signed bicycle route then
relation should not be created and there is actually a gap in cycleway
system.

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Re: [OSM-legal-talk] Brexit & EU database rights

[Simon Poole]

Am 13.12.2020 um 20:12 schrieb Tom Hummel via legal-talk:

Hi all,

Am Sonntag, 13. Dezember 2020, 15:58:48 CET schrieb Simon Poole:

The relevant bit of the directive is in article 11. As you can see the
rights are dependent on being domiciled in the EU, not on the physical
location of the "database". I would need to check up on the UK

Do the legal contributors have formed an opinion towards this, already?

Seeing the Foundation being situated in the UK, and the absence of any 
agreement acc. to art. 11 III, it looks like the foundation is loosing its 
entitlement acc. to art. 11 II of the directive.


This was the subject of the original message in this thread. The 
situation post December 31st 2020 is such that protection for sui 
generis databases will remain for database published before that date in 
the UK till the protection term runs out. In the case of OSM when the 15 
years start is naturally a bit fuzzy, but at least the reworking of the 
database in 2012 for the licence change was clearly a substantial change 
that required a significant investment by the OSMF, so it is reasonable 
to assume that protection will remain at least till September 2026 (IMHO 
there are more than enough arguments for December 2034, but I suspect 
that will be moot by 26).


Simon



German courts adhere to the „modified seat of management rule“ since 2002 (BGH 
NJW 2002, 3539), meaning some capacity to sue and be sued. OTOTH liability for 
associates is personal and unrestricted.

For Germany, it looks like there is some entitlement on behalf of FOSSGIS. The 
governing agreement (OpenStreetMap Foundation Local Chapters Agreement) does 
not grant any derivative rights without additional agreement, § 7.1 Conduct.

Am I missing something?

Tom



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Description: OpenPGP digital signature
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Re: [Talk-GB] Tagging bike ramp/ bike path down steps

[SK53]

NCN 6 has a particularly awkward example
 (sorry
no picture to hand) which is suitably tagged, and definitely signed. The
ramp is (was?) not much more than a half-pipe.

On Sun, 13 Dec 2020 at 18:53, Chris Hodges  wrote:

> NCR45 in Stroud goes down a rather steep flight of steps to cross
> Dudbridge Road. I can confirm that is what the signs say, having been
> there yesterday.  Also the Sustrans/OS map shows it taking the line of
> the steps https://osmaps.ordnancesurvey.co.uk/51.73875,-2.23631,18
>
> There is a narrow ramp, so you can wheel a (conventional) bike up/down.
> It's about as accessible as it sounds, but the north end of the path
> isn't much better.
>
> On OSM the steps are shown (with a note about the bike route)
> https://www.openstreetmap.org/edit#map=19/51.73895/-2.23568 but the
> cycle path appears to break
>
> Mapillary shows the sign at the bottom:
>
> https://www.mapillary.com/app/?lat=51.738716181265865=-2.236989543797598=17=map=true=7X9gKmoDzGaATOILuDGRuA=0.14213485370109913=0.4081370298673949=3
>
>
> It's not unique - I know another example where the Bristol-Bath railway
> path accesses the pub car park in Saltford
> https://www.openstreetmap.org/edit#map=19/51.40521/-2.45026, and I've
> seen similar on canal towpaths - in the latter case in particular it can
> be crucial for route-planning even manually, as the next access can be a
> long way away.
>
> So how should this be tagged to indicate that the bike route really does
> go down the steps?
>
>
> Chris
>
>
> ___
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>
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Re: [Talk-it] Fonte di toponimi dubbi

[Stefano]

Il giorno dom 13 dic 2020 alle ore 14:41 Stefano Lavori <
opeldest...@gmail.com> ha scritto:

> Buonasera, sono un contributore occasionale di OSM e volevo una mano da voi
> veterani per risalire alla fonte (Istat 2001 - geodati.gfoss.it) citata
> per
> gli elementi di questo changeset:
>
> https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/2002049
>
>
 Ciao,
sono "import" manuali storici dal file delle località abitate del
censimento ISTAT
Ne avevo caricato diversi pure io nel 2012.
Direi di cancellare quelli che non ti tornano...

Grazie
>

Ciao,
Stefano

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Re: [Talk-GB] Tagging bike ramp/ bike path down steps

[Mateusz Konieczny via Talk-GB]

Dec 13, 2020, 20:52 by talk-gb@openstreetmap.org:

> Dec 13, 2020, 19:50 by ch...@c-hodges.co.uk:
>
>> So how should this be tagged to indicate that the bike route really does go 
>> down the steps?
>>
> Add them to bike route relation.
>

Obviously it applies only if there is some signed bicycle route there.

If it is just part of cycleway system, without signed bicycle route then
relation should not be created and there is actually a gap in cycleway
system.
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Re: [Talk-GB] Tagging bike ramp/ bike path down steps

[Mateusz Konieczny via Talk-GB]

Dec 13, 2020, 19:50 by ch...@c-hodges.co.uk:

> So how should this be tagged to indicate that the bike route really does go 
> down the steps?
>
Add them to bike route relation.

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Re: [OSM-talk-fr] Tag bons d'achat locaux

[Topographe Fou]

  Bonjour,Là comme cela à froid je ne vois pas la pertinence du suffixe :covid19. J'imagine que ces bons ont une durée dans le temps indépendante de la situation sanitaire. La clé (ou la valeur, m'enfin je préfère la clé) doit plutôt permettre d'identifier quels titres sont valables en un lieu donné (car il est possible qu'il y en ait plusieurs grâce à notre millefeuille territorial).Pour le reste de la clé je ne connais pas assez bien les systèmes en place mais me rappel que nous avons eu une discussion récente sur les chèques ANCV et titres restaurants. La problématique me parait liée. Malheureusement je ne crois pas qu'un consensus clair ait émergé (j'accepterai une contradiction avec plaisir).Cordialement,  LeTopographeFou   De: laurent.magrea...@gmail.comEnvoyé: 13 décembre 2020 6:41 PMÀ: talk-fr@openstreetmap.orgRépondre à: talk-fr@openstreetmap.orgObjet: [OSM-talk-fr] Tag bons d'achat locaux  Bonjour,Dans le Jura, deux territoires ont mis en place des "bons d'achat bonifiés" pour aider les commerces locaux :- autour de Champagnole, ce sont des "chèques solidaires" : https://www.commerces-champagnole.com/cheques-solidaires.htm- pour la communauté de communes Terre d'Émeraude, des "chèques bonifiés" : https://www.terredemeraude.fr/economie/bons-dachats-bonifies/Je suppose que ça existe dans d'autres départements.Le principe : des points de ventes pour acheter les bons et des commerces éligibles pour les dépenser. Les bons d'un territoire ne sont pas utilisables dans un autre territoire (réseaux distincts qui ne devraient pas se chevaucher à première vue).Je cherche le tag approprié pour :- les commerces éligibles : On trouve sur tag info quelques occurrences en Italie de payment:voucher:covid19=yes https://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/keys/payment%3Avoucher%3Acovid19- les points de vente : change:voucher:covid19=yes sur le modèle des monnaies locales ?https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/User:FrViPofm/Key:local_currency#XLT-PIVEIl y a toujours la problématique des réseaux distincts. Faut-il multiplier les clés ?Après ça reste un dispositif limité dans le temps. Donc est-ce que ça a sa place dans OSM...Merci pour vos retours éclairés,___)```)___Laurent Magréault d'Attoma@ : laurent.magrea...@gmail.com
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Re: [Talk-GB] Tagging bike ramp/ bike path down steps

[Edward Catmur via Talk-GB]

On Sun, 13 Dec 2020, 19:14 David Woolley, 
wrote:

> On 13/12/2020 19:05, Edward Catmur via Talk-GB wrote:
> > Also, the steps should have bicycle=dismount, not =yes. This will allow
> > people who can't dismount to go around by the road.
>
> Only if it is illegal to try to cycle up and down the steps.  Otherwise
> it is the duty of the renderer (router) to infer that this will be
> necessary because of the steps.
>

The sign visible on Mapillary says (white on blue) "Steps ahead cyclists
dismount". That seems pretty clear to me.
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Re: [OSM-legal-talk] Brexit & EU database rights

[Tom Hummel via legal-talk]

Hi all,

Am Sonntag, 13. Dezember 2020, 15:58:48 CET schrieb Simon Poole:
> The relevant bit of the directive is in article 11. As you can see the 
> rights are dependent on being domiciled in the EU, not on the physical 
> location of the "database". I would need to check up on the UK 

Do the legal contributors have formed an opinion towards this, already?

Seeing the Foundation being situated in the UK, and the absence of any 
agreement acc. to art. 11 III, it looks like the foundation is loosing its 
entitlement acc. to art. 11 II of the directive.

German courts adhere to the „modified seat of management rule“ since 2002 (BGH 
NJW 2002, 3539), meaning some capacity to sue and be sued. OTOTH liability for 
associates is personal and unrestricted.

For Germany, it looks like there is some entitlement on behalf of FOSSGIS. The 
governing agreement (OpenStreetMap Foundation Local Chapters Agreement) does 
not grant any derivative rights without additional agreement, § 7.1 Conduct.

Am I missing something?

Tom



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Re: [Talk-GB] Tagging bike ramp/ bike path down steps

[David Woolley]

On 13/12/2020 19:05, Edward Catmur via Talk-GB wrote:
Also, the steps should have bicycle=dismount, not =yes. This will allow 
people who can't dismount to go around by the road.


Only if it is illegal to try to cycle up and down the steps.  Otherwise 
it is the duty of the renderer (router) to infer that this will be 
necessary because of the steps.


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Re: [Talk-GB] Tagging bike ramp/ bike path down steps

[Edward Catmur via Talk-GB]

On Sun, 13 Dec 2020, 19:02 Adam Snape,  wrote:

> highway=steps
> ramp:bicycle=yes
>

Right. The cycle route isn't mapped at all, from what I can tell?

Also, the steps should have bicycle=dismount, not =yes. This will allow
people who can't dismount to go around by the road.



> Kind regards,
>
> Adam
>
>
> On Sun, 13 Dec 2020, 18:53 Chris Hodges,  wrote:
>
>> NCR45 in Stroud goes down a rather steep flight of steps to cross
>> Dudbridge Road. I can confirm that is what the signs say, having been
>> there yesterday.  Also the Sustrans/OS map shows it taking the line of
>> the steps https://osmaps.ordnancesurvey.co.uk/51.73875,-2.23631,18
>>
>> There is a narrow ramp, so you can wheel a (conventional) bike up/down.
>> It's about as accessible as it sounds, but the north end of the path
>> isn't much better.
>>
>> On OSM the steps are shown (with a note about the bike route)
>> https://www.openstreetmap.org/edit#map=19/51.73895/-2.23568 but the
>> cycle path appears to break
>>
>> Mapillary shows the sign at the bottom:
>>
>> https://www.mapillary.com/app/?lat=51.738716181265865=-2.236989543797598=17=map=true=7X9gKmoDzGaATOILuDGRuA=0.14213485370109913=0.4081370298673949=3
>>
>>
>> It's not unique - I know another example where the Bristol-Bath railway
>> path accesses the pub car park in Saltford
>> https://www.openstreetmap.org/edit#map=19/51.40521/-2.45026, and I've
>> seen similar on canal towpaths - in the latter case in particular it can
>> be crucial for route-planning even manually, as the next access can be a
>> long way away.
>>
>> So how should this be tagged to indicate that the bike route really does
>> go down the steps?
>>
>>
>> Chris
>>
>>
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Re: [Talk-GB] Tagging bike ramp/ bike path down steps

[Adam Snape]

highway=steps
ramp:bicycle=yes

Kind regards,

Adam


On Sun, 13 Dec 2020, 18:53 Chris Hodges,  wrote:

> NCR45 in Stroud goes down a rather steep flight of steps to cross
> Dudbridge Road. I can confirm that is what the signs say, having been
> there yesterday.  Also the Sustrans/OS map shows it taking the line of
> the steps https://osmaps.ordnancesurvey.co.uk/51.73875,-2.23631,18
>
> There is a narrow ramp, so you can wheel a (conventional) bike up/down.
> It's about as accessible as it sounds, but the north end of the path
> isn't much better.
>
> On OSM the steps are shown (with a note about the bike route)
> https://www.openstreetmap.org/edit#map=19/51.73895/-2.23568 but the
> cycle path appears to break
>
> Mapillary shows the sign at the bottom:
>
> https://www.mapillary.com/app/?lat=51.738716181265865=-2.236989543797598=17=map=true=7X9gKmoDzGaATOILuDGRuA=0.14213485370109913=0.4081370298673949=3
>
>
> It's not unique - I know another example where the Bristol-Bath railway
> path accesses the pub car park in Saltford
> https://www.openstreetmap.org/edit#map=19/51.40521/-2.45026, and I've
> seen similar on canal towpaths - in the latter case in particular it can
> be crucial for route-planning even manually, as the next access can be a
> long way away.
>
> So how should this be tagged to indicate that the bike route really does
> go down the steps?
>
>
> Chris
>
>
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[Talk-GB] Tagging bike ramp/ bike path down steps

[Chris Hodges]

NCR45 in Stroud goes down a rather steep flight of steps to cross 
Dudbridge Road. I can confirm that is what the signs say, having been 
there yesterday.  Also the Sustrans/OS map shows it taking the line of 
the steps https://osmaps.ordnancesurvey.co.uk/51.73875,-2.23631,18


There is a narrow ramp, so you can wheel a (conventional) bike up/down.  
It's about as accessible as it sounds, but the north end of the path 
isn't much better.


On OSM the steps are shown (with a note about the bike route) 
https://www.openstreetmap.org/edit#map=19/51.73895/-2.23568 but the 
cycle path appears to break


Mapillary shows the sign at the bottom: 
https://www.mapillary.com/app/?lat=51.738716181265865=-2.236989543797598=17=map=true=7X9gKmoDzGaATOILuDGRuA=0.14213485370109913=0.4081370298673949=3 



It's not unique - I know another example where the Bristol-Bath railway 
path accesses the pub car park in Saltford 
https://www.openstreetmap.org/edit#map=19/51.40521/-2.45026, and I've 
seen similar on canal towpaths - in the latter case in particular it can 
be crucial for route-planning even manually, as the next access can be a 
long way away.


So how should this be tagged to indicate that the bike route really does 
go down the steps?



Chris


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Re: [Talk-GB] Idea - OSMUK walkers' map application -- -& server

[OSMUK via Talk-GB]

Hey Nick,

This sounds like a great project and so I’m sure OSMUK can help with server 
space. We have just migrated hosting to AWS due to our previous host shutting 
down, so one option is to provide some space on there.

Best,

Adam

--
Adam Hoyle
[m] 07973 428 333
On 11 Dec 2020, 15:02 +, Nick Whitelegg via Talk-GB , wrote:
>
> Hello Andy,
>
> Thanks for this.
>
> My own feeling regarding what server we need is "start small, to get it 
> going" and then as soon as OSMUK can commit to funding (*if* they can, of 
> course) and/or several people share the cost, then scale up. Hetzner's model 
> is very flexible in this regard, for instance I started with an 8GB RAM VM 
> before I found it wasn't quite adequate for my needs and upgraded the same VM 
> to the 16GB version (and added some disc space, I think, too). For now I am 
> willing to spend a small amount (below EUR/GBP 5) for a month or two to get 
> things going if there's sufficient interest.
>
> I'd broadly agree to an extent about going the Mapnik route although I would 
> prefer another person with more experience in the niceties of current Mapnik 
> stylesheet development to do large-scale tweaks;  I would be happy to do 
> small​ tweaks on such things as, for example, making designations appear in a 
> similar style to Landranger which might be an idea for familiarity purposes. 
> On the other hand, vector rendering would have some advantages for the aims 
> of this project - an interactive map of the countryside in which POIs and 
> paths can be clicked to add/retrieve information. I believe Tangram can do 
> this quite easily; I have dabbled in Tangram and it's quite easy to setup a 
> simple stylesheet though haven't tried it with anything complex. Tangram also 
> has some nice things like being able to be rendered in both isometric and 
> (via A-Frame components, https://aframe.io) even in 3D. I have to admit 
> having a personal like for the vector approach,   it shifts more processing 
> onto the client, good in a world where standard client hardware, desktop and 
> mobile, is pretty powerful while powerful server hardware is expensive.
>
> I wouldn't personally be so fussed about things like minutely updates until 
> it becomes a 'production' map, while in development mode I think the best 
> approach is to keep it simple and cheap to run. In terms of my own projects I 
> do quite rigorous filtering of the OSM data before populating the DB, to 
> reject things mostly of interest to urban areas which only use up space and 
> resources in a walking-oriented map. Another way of keeping initial costs 
> down would be to concentrate on one or a few counties, ideally well-mapped 
> ones with many ROWs, hills, water features etc.
>
> So I'd be quite happy - if​ there's interest - to setup a cheaper Hetzner 
> server for now. If we want to go the mapnik route I'd be happy to do a basic 
> setup there as well, as in, get mod_tile working and use your style 
> unmodified. My main personal contribution to the project would be to work on 
> the server- and client-side scripting necessary to develop an interactive POI 
> map. We'd also of course need people with strong web design and UX skills - 
> alas, mine are not so great!
>
> As for other points - things like https cert renewal seem easy with Let's 
> Encrypt; have been using that succesfully for a while now.
>
> Nick
>
>
> Nick Whitelegg
> Senior Lecturer in Computing (Internet)  | School of Media Arts and Technology
> Southampton Solent University  | RM424 | East Park Terrace | Southampton SO14 
> 0YN
> T: 023 8201 3075 | E: nick.whitel...@solent.ac.uk | W: solent.ac.uk
>
> Disclaimer
> From: Andy Townsend 
> Sent: 11 December 2020 13:40
> To: talk-gb@openstreetmap.org 
> Subject: Re: [Talk-GB] Idea - OSMUK walkers' map application -- -& server
>
>
> On 11/12/2020 09:59, Nick Whitelegg via Talk-GB wrote:
> >
> > In the early stages I think we could run it on cheap hosting hardware, like 
> > most projects in the OSM ecosystem. I suspect for a while usage would be 
> > light and limited to those in the OSM community. I use Hetzner for my 
> > hosting (OpenTrailView, Hikar, MapThePaths) - I pay around EUR 19/month but 
> > that is for a larger system that has to deal with the whole of Europe 
> > rather than just the UK.
> >
> >  https://www.hetzner.com/cloud?country=gb
> >
> > The second-lowest spec of these, the CPX11 is giving you 2GB RAM and 40GB 
> > disc space for EUR 4.19 a month. OK we'd need more than that long term, but 
> > I suspect that would get us going in the early stages.
>
> That'll depending on what you want the server to do, I think.  For an OSM 
> Carto Map style with automatic updates and reasonable performance you'll 
> probably need > 6Gb memory for the whole of the UK these days.  Maybe a CX31 
> at €11 per month (i.e. about the price of a couple of pints and a 
> "substantial" pork pie for those in tier 2)?  https://map.atownsend.org.uk is 
> a CX41 I believe, and 

Re: [OSM-talk-fr] Usages des cartes IGN pour contribuer à OSM [était : Évolution de l'IGN, ouverture de données

[deuzeffe]

Le 13/12/2020 à 18:07, Vincent de Château-Thierry a écrit :

Bonsoir,


Bonsoir,

Avec correction des cartes IGN par leur soins avec les données OSM ? 
Je ne sais pas s'il y avait une contre-partie demandée à OSM-FR par 
l'IGN dans la défunte convention.


De quelle convention caduque et/ou défunte parles-tu ?

La seule convention en vigueur actuellement entre OSM-Fr et l'IGN date 
de juin 2019, elle a été signée au SOTM de Montpellier pour une durée de 
3 ans. C'est elle qui nous permet de choisir la BD Ortho dans nos éditeurs.


Mince, je confonds. Avec quoi, je ne sais plus.

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Re: [OSM-talk-fr] changesets caresteouvert

[PanierAvide]

Bonjour,

Merci du retour, le correctif est en route et devrait être déployé d'ici 
peu.


Cordialement,

Adrien P.

Le 13/12/2020 à 11:53, Vincent Bergeot a écrit :

Bonjour,

Le 13/12/2020 à 11:36, Georges Dutreix via Talk-fr a écrit :

Bonjour,

Je viens de m'apercevoir qu'OSMCha affiche toute une série de 
changesets "vides" pour l'utilisateur CaResteOuvert_visitor.

Est-ce vraiment normal ou est-ce un petit bug ?

ex : 
https://osmcha.org/?filters=%7B%22users%22%3A%5B%7B%22label%22%3A%22CaResteOuvert_visitor%22%2C%22value%22%3A%22CaResteOuvert_visitor%22%7D%5D%7D 



Bon week-end à tous !


à priori c'est un petit bug, tu fais bien de le relever sur la liste, 
j'eusse pu le faire car ce bug est identifié ici 
https://github.com/caresteouvert/caresteouvert/issues/878.


Merci

--
Vincent Bergeot

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Re: [Talk-GB] driveway-becomes-track

[Martin Wynne]

I have now changed this from "driveway" to "service road" with access 
for motor vehicles as "destination", i.e. for access to properties only. 
I don't think it can be "private" because there are two properties along 
there, Noverton Cottage and Noverton Farm.


I have also added the gate at the public road.

 https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=17/52.28186/-2.42748

Martin.

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Re: [Talk-it] Fonte di toponimi dubbi

[Martin Koppenhoefer]

sent from a phone

> On 13. Dec 2020, at 16:16, totera  wrote:
> 
> In situazioni dove il toponimo Istat non è quello comunemente usato l'ho
> comunque mantenuto con il tag official_name.


credo sarebbe meglio un tag “name:istat“ perché ISTAT non è la fonte autorevole 
per nomi (sono i comuni).

Ciao Martin 



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Re: [Talk-it] Fonte di toponimi dubbi

[Martin Koppenhoefer]

sent from a phone

> On 13. Dec 2020, at 16:13, Francesco Ansanelli  wrote:
> 
> Ciao,
> 
> suggerisco di non rimuovere il nome non più in uso, ma di cambiare il tag in 
> "old_name", è uno dei pochi casi dove per ragioni storiche, secondo me, può 
> continuare ad esistere.


sono d’accordo, sia per toponimi che per strade è utile conservare vecchi nomi 
in old_name

Ciao Martin 
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[OSM-talk-fr] Tag bons d'achat locaux

[Laurent Magréault]

Bonjour,

Dans le Jura, deux territoires ont mis en place des "bons d'achat bonifiés"
pour aider les commerces locaux :
- autour de Champagnole, ce sont des "chèques solidaires" :
https://www.commerces-champagnole.com/cheques-solidaires.htm
- pour la communauté de communes Terre d'Émeraude, des "chèques bonifiés" :
https://www.terredemeraude.fr/economie/bons-dachats-bonifies/

Je suppose que ça existe dans d'autres départements.

Le principe : des points de ventes pour acheter les bons et des commerces
éligibles pour les dépenser. Les bons d'un territoire ne sont pas
utilisables dans un autre territoire (réseaux distincts qui ne devraient
pas se chevaucher à première vue).

Je cherche le tag approprié pour :
- les commerces éligibles :
On trouve sur tag info quelques occurrences en Italie de
payment:voucher:covid19=yes
https://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/keys/payment%3Avoucher%3Acovid19
- les points de vente :
change:voucher:covid19=yes sur le modèle des monnaies locales ?
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/User:FrViPofm/Key:local_currency#XLT-PIVE

Il y a toujours la problématique des réseaux distincts. Faut-il multiplier
les clés ?

Après ça reste un dispositif limité dans le temps. Donc est-ce que ça a sa
place dans OSM...

Merci pour vos retours éclairés,

___)```)___

Laurent Magréault d'Attoma
@ : laurent.magrea...@gmail.com
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Re: [OSM-talk-fr] Usages des cartes IGN pour contribuer à OSM [était : Évolution de l'IGN, ouverture de données

[Marc_marc]

Le 13.12.20 à 18:07, Vincent de Château-Thierry a écrit :
> La seule convention en vigueur actuellement entre OSM-Fr et l'IGN date
> de juin 2019

elle devient vide de contenu réel non ?
puisque son intérêt pour osm était d'avoir accès à la BDOrtho
qui ne sera plus restraint dans 19j.
après reste l'excuse de s'en servir pour faire du réseau...



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Re: [OSM-talk-fr] Usages des cartes IGN pour contribuer à OSM [était : Évolution de l'IGN, ouverture de données

[Vincent de Château-Thierry]

Bonsoir,

Le 11/12/2020 à 17:59, deuzeffe a écrit :

Le 11/12/2020 à 17:53, Vincent Bergeot a écrit :

cela me fait me demander si cela pourrait être un nouvel élément de 
la convention entre osm-fr et l'ign, sur le même principe que ce nous 
avions avec la bd ortho et son usage pour contribuer à OSM.


Histoire de changer une convention caduque par une autre, en somme (et 
ailleurs en France).


Peut-on envisager l'usage, par convention, des cartes IGN pour la 
contribution à OSM (avec, comme le souligne Jean-Claude les 
vérifications adéquates) ?


Avec correction des cartes IGN par leur soins avec les données OSM ? 
Je ne sais pas s'il y avait une contre-partie demandée à OSM-FR par 
l'IGN dans la défunte convention.


De quelle convention caduque et/ou défunte parles-tu ?

La seule convention en vigueur actuellement entre OSM-Fr et l'IGN date 
de juin 2019, elle a été signée au SOTM de Montpellier pour une durée de 
3 ans. C'est elle qui nous permet de choisir la BD Ortho dans nos éditeurs.


vincent


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[Talk-es] carril bici junto a carril bus sin separar?

[F . Verdú]

Hace dos dias abrieron un nuevo tipo de carril bici en Valencia, foto aquí
(fundamental para entenderlo):
https://www.levante-emv.com/valencia/2020/12/12/abre-tramo-carril-bici-fernando-26199377.html
Y quiero confirmar como etiquetarlo, porque no es shared bus lane
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:cycleway%3Dshare_busway porque
aunque no hay linea separadora, la anchura es del carril bus y del carril.
Son dos espacio contiguos, juntos pero no revueltos.
Para mi es más bien un simple carril bici unidireccional, un cycleway lane,
oneway. Cierto?

Gracias.
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Re: [Talk-es] Importación del Catastro de Negreira

[Nicolás Vieites Sueiro]

Buenas tardes,

Os informo de que ayer el compañero @yopaseopor ya ha aceptado mi pull request 
al github del proyecto, y hoy @sanchi me ha dado los 
permisos para crear las tareas en el gestor. Dado que ya he subido y publicado 
la tarea en el gestor, doy por comenzada la importación del catastro en 
Negreira 

Un salúdo y muchas gracias a todos!!

De: Miguel Sevilla-Callejo 
Enviado: viernes, 11 de diciembre de 2020 13:45
Para: Discusión en Español de OpenStreetMap ; 
Nicolás Vieites Sueiro 
Asunto: Re: [Talk-es] Importación del Catastro de Negreira


Hola Nico,


Lo primero es agradecete que trajeras la cuestión a la lista de correos desde 
la sala de mensajería instantánea en Telegram/Riot/Element.


Para crear una tarea en tareas.openstreetmap.es debes tener privilegios de 
administración allí, de todos modos prueba a ver, o si no ponte en contacto con 
alguno del os administradores, @sanchi, por ejemplo, para que te ayuden con 
ello.


Ah! y Enhorabuena por las ediciones y el progreso. Todo un ejemplo a seguir.


Saludos


Miguel


On 11/12/2020 11:15, Nicolás Vieites Sueiro wrote:
Buenos días,

Viendo que el Concello de Negreira a alcanzado el nivel de "Finalizado" en el 
proyecto #1calle1nombre, he decidido comenzar una importación del catastro.
Para ello, antes de nada, he hecho una comprobación de que todos los lugares y 
calles del concello están correctamente en OSM, siguiendo el método de la wiki 
del proyecto de importación (generando los archivos address.osm, 
highway_names.csv, etc.). Ayer he finalizado de comprobar esto, y creo que ya 
están todas las direcciones.
He generado los archivos necesarios para la importación con la herramienta 
catatom2osm tal y como se indica en la wiki, y hace un rato he hecho una pull 
request con dichos archivos 
al repositorio de github habilitado para tal fin.
Supongo que ahora, el siguiente paso sería crear la tarea en el gestor de 
tareas, pero desconozco si esto lo puedo hacer yo por mi cuenta también, o 
necesito que alguien lo haga por mí.

Un salúdo a todos.



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Re: [talk-cz] Zdroj názvů ulic

[Jan Martinec]

Ahoj, autoritativní je OTGR.

Co je na ceduli? ;)

(Pokud cedule není, opřel bych se o RÚIAN)

Zdar,
Honza Piškvor Martinec


Dne ne 13. 12. 2020 16:41 uživatel Tonda  napsal:

> Co je autoritativní zdroj názvů ulic? RUIAN?
>
> Tento úsek https://bit.ly/37gk37n je v OSM jako Střelničná, v ZMČR,
> RUIAN i mapy.cz jako Vysočanská.
>
>
> https://vdp.cuzk.cz/marushka/?ThemeID=1=UL=1=470589=https://vdp.cuzk.cz/vdp/ruian=vdpWindow_1607863915248
>
> https://vdp.cuzk.cz/marushka/?ThemeID=1=UL=1=478661=https://vdp.cuzk.cz/vdp/ruian=vdpWindow_1607863915248
>
> T.
>
> ___
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Re: [Talk-it] Fonte di toponimi dubbi

[liste DOT girarsi AT posteo DOT eu]

Il 13/12/20 16:42, liste DOT girarsi AT posteo DOT eu ha scritto:
> Il 13/12/20 16:15, totera ha scritto:
>>
>> In situazioni dove il toponimo Istat non è quello comunemente usato l'ho
>> comunque mantenuto con il tag official_name.
>> Una loro eliminazione inficerebbe eventuali progetti di integrazione tra
>> dati OSM e dati Istat liberi (le località Istat hanno anche un codice
>> identificativo presente in OSM come tag istat_id).
>>
>> [1] =
>> http://dawinci.istat.it/MD/dawinciMD.jsp?a1=m0GG0c0I0=mG0Y8048f8=1UH90007T55=1UH07B07T55
>> [2] = https://www.istat.it/it/archivio/104317
>> [3] = http://gisportal.istat.it/bt.viewer/
>>
> 
> 
> Qualcuno conosce il serbo-croato?
> 
> Ho trovato questa pagina wikipedia [0].
> 

Dimenticavo.. :)

https://sh.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biasciuokc,_Teramo


-- 
_|_|_|_|_|_|_|_|_|_
|_|_|_|_|_|_|_|_|_|_|
Simone Girardelli

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Re: [Talk-it] Fonte di toponimi dubbi

[liste DOT girarsi AT posteo DOT eu]

Il 13/12/20 16:15, totera ha scritto:
> 
> In situazioni dove il toponimo Istat non è quello comunemente usato l'ho
> comunque mantenuto con il tag official_name.
> Una loro eliminazione inficerebbe eventuali progetti di integrazione tra
> dati OSM e dati Istat liberi (le località Istat hanno anche un codice
> identificativo presente in OSM come tag istat_id).
> 
> [1] =
> http://dawinci.istat.it/MD/dawinciMD.jsp?a1=m0GG0c0I0=mG0Y8048f8=1UH90007T55=1UH07B07T55
> [2] = https://www.istat.it/it/archivio/104317
> [3] = http://gisportal.istat.it/bt.viewer/
> 


Qualcuno conosce il serbo-croato?

Ho trovato questa pagina wikipedia [0].

Però lobanon, se uno ha sentito quel nome località, e un tuo conoscente
dice di non averlo mai sentito, non mi pare empirico, l'unica è se
possibile, chiedere all'ufficio tecnico del comune se esiste quel
toponimo in paese.

Seconda cosa, anche se l'autore dell'inserimento della località è da
tempo che non mappa, magari scrivendogli un messaggio ti risponde e ti
dice come l'ha ottenuto quel nome.
-- 
_|_|_|_|_|_|_|_|_|_
|_|_|_|_|_|_|_|_|_|_|
Simone Girardelli

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Re: [Talk-GB] driveway-becomes-track

[Philip Barnes]

We as a UK community, certainly from the countryside mapping point of
view tend to be walkers and cyclists. We see a track, we know its a
track because the tagging language of OSM is after all our native
language.

Take for example 
http://trigpoint.myzen.co.uk/photodump/20201212_150029.jpg

This is https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/718122173/history

It was originally mapped as a track, which is correct IMHO, I would not
drive my car with low profile tyres here although I have both ridden my
town and trail bike and walked here.

Mapping as these as tracks has served us as a community well over the
years. We have no use-case for them other than as walkers/cyclists and
our allies, the horse riders.

Recently paid mappers have started changing many of these tracks to
service roads, because the wiki says that tracks are for agricultural
and forestry use and as these tracks lead to farms and other properties
they cannot be tracks

I suspect one of the issues we are seeing goes back to the first
version of the highway=track wiki page which is where the
Agriculture/Forestry restriction appeared, although until these edits
began to appear I had never had cause to read the wiki to find out what
a track is, or to challenge the restrictive definition.

My 10p worth.

Phil (trigpoint)




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[talk-cz] Zdroj názvů ulic

[Tonda]

Co je autoritativní zdroj názvů ulic? RUIAN?

Tento úsek https://bit.ly/37gk37n je v OSM jako Střelničná, v ZMČR, 
RUIAN i mapy.cz jako Vysočanská.


https://vdp.cuzk.cz/marushka/?ThemeID=1=UL=1=470589=https://vdp.cuzk.cz/vdp/ruian=vdpWindow_1607863915248
https://vdp.cuzk.cz/marushka/?ThemeID=1=UL=1=478661=https://vdp.cuzk.cz/vdp/ruian=vdpWindow_1607863915248

T.

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Re: [Talk-it] Fonte di toponimi dubbi

[totera]

lobanon wrote
> Buonasera, sono un contributore occasionale di OSM e volevo una mano da
> voi
> veterani per risalire alla fonte (Istat 2001 - geodati.gfoss.it) citata
> per
> gli elementi di questo changeset:
> 
> https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/2002049
> 
> Il problema di *alcuni* di quei toponimi e' che sono toponimi
> assolutamente
> dialettali e di utilizzo molto ristretto (tipicamente delle 3/4 famiglie
> che
> abitano nei dintorni) ed oltretutto neanche la loro grafia mi convince al
> 100%. Per esempio "Biasciuokc": quel "kc" finale non ha alcun senso
> foneticamente. Sembrano decisamente soprannomi dati alle famiglie che
> abitavano in quel preciso luogo in un preciso lasso di tempo (passato):
> uno
> su tutti "Saittì" (peperoncino).

Ciao, quei toponimi hanno sempre incuriosito anche me...
Ad ogni modo la fonte è Istat, secondo la quale esistono nuclei abitati con
quei nomi, dei quali viene anche rilevata la popolazione nei censimenti.
Ad esempio in [1] trovi i dati del 2001, ma sono presenti anche in quello
del 2011, con tanto di confini delle località, se li cerchi in [2] e [3].


> Sono della zona e queste dinamiche mi sono
> ben note.

Non so come l'Istat abbia acquisito i toponimi, possiamo immaginare che
qualche decennio addietro un rilevatore abbia chiesto "Come si chiama questo
posto?" e abbia ricevuto come risposta i soprannomi delle famiglie?


> Ho chiesto anche informazioni ad un mio conoscente nativo di
> Sant'Egidio alla Vibrata il quale afferma di non averli mai sentiti.
> 
> Quindi riassumendo io sarei per eliminare almeno quelli piu' impropri e
> piu'
> piccoli ma prima di fare qualsiasi cosa volevo in primis informarmi sulla
> fonte di
> questi toponimi.

In situazioni dove il toponimo Istat non è quello comunemente usato l'ho
comunque mantenuto con il tag official_name.
Una loro eliminazione inficerebbe eventuali progetti di integrazione tra
dati OSM e dati Istat liberi (le località Istat hanno anche un codice
identificativo presente in OSM come tag istat_id).

[1] =
http://dawinci.istat.it/MD/dawinciMD.jsp?a1=m0GG0c0I0=mG0Y8048f8=1UH90007T55=1UH07B07T55
[2] = https://www.istat.it/it/archivio/104317
[3] = http://gisportal.istat.it/bt.viewer/



--
Sent from: http://gis.19327.n8.nabble.com/Italy-General-f5324174.html

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Re: [Talk-GB] driveway-becomes-track

[Nick Whitelegg via Talk-GB]

Hello Martin/Nick,

Perhaps the combination of highway, surface and designation will cover many of 
these use-cases?

e.g. a service road that looks like a track but is a service road, and has 
bridleway rights, could be tagged as:

highway=service; surface=unpaved; designation=public_bridleway

For rendering, if one rendered tracks or unpaved service roads as dashed black 
lines, and designations as coloured lines, you could render the designation 
layer as a coloured transparent line above the track/service road layer. This 
is what I do in my own projects.

Nick



From: Martin Wynne 
Sent: 13 December 2020 14:01
To: talk-gb@openstreetmap.org 
Subject: Re: [Talk-GB] driveway-becomes-track

On 13/12/2020 13:45, Nick wrote:

> what do people think of Overlapping ways i.e. one is a road and
> a duplicate is a bridleway? Not elegant and something I would not
> normally suggest but...

Hi Nick,

When I've tried that in the past I've been jumped on for breaking a
fundamental rule of OSM that one feature should have only one entry in
the database.

Martin.

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Re: [Talk-it] Fonte di toponimi dubbi

[Francesco Ansanelli]

Ciao,

suggerisco di non rimuovere il nome non più in uso, ma di cambiare il tag
in "old_name", è uno dei pochi casi dove per ragioni storiche, secondo me,
può continuare ad esistere.

Francesco

Il dom 13 dic 2020, 14:41 Stefano Lavori  ha scritto:

> Buonasera, sono un contributore occasionale di OSM e volevo una mano da voi
> veterani per risalire alla fonte (Istat 2001 - geodati.gfoss.it) citata
> per
> gli elementi di questo changeset:
>
> https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/2002049
>
> Il problema di *alcuni* di quei toponimi e' che sono toponimi assolutamente
> dialettali e di utilizzo molto ristretto (tipicamente delle 3/4 famiglie
> che
> abitano nei dintorni) ed oltretutto neanche la loro grafia mi convince al
> 100%. Per esempio "Biasciuokc": quel "kc" finale non ha alcun senso
> foneticamente. Sembrano decisamente soprannomi dati alle famiglie che
> abitavano in quel preciso luogo in un preciso lasso di tempo (passato): uno
> su tutti "Saittì" (peperoncino). Sono della zona e queste dinamiche mi sono
> ben note. Ho chiesto anche informazioni ad un mio conoscente nativo di
> Sant'Egidio alla Vibrata il quale afferma di non averli mai sentiti.
>
> Quindi riassumendo io sarei per eliminare almeno quelli piu' impropri e
> piu'
> piccoli ma prima di fare qualsiasi cosa volevo in primis informarmi sulla
> fonte di
> questi toponimi.
>
> Grazie
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Re: [OSM-legal-talk] Brexit & EU database rights

[Simon Poole]

The relevant bit of the directive is in article 11. As you can see the 
rights are dependent on being domiciled in the EU, not on the physical 
location of the "database". I would need to check up on the UK 
equivalent, but it likely requires the same. Outside of the UK and EU 
(possibly including Russia), we rely on conventional copyright for 
creative works* and contract law.


Simon

* yes, I'm fully aware of the problematic bit here.

Am 13.12.2020 um 10:21 schrieb Edward Bainton:
Thank you for the link, now read. All you say on substantial changes 
makes sense.


So if we move the database into the EU, are we confident it would be 
all be protected under those terms? Does the hiatus from 1 Jan 2021 
cause any difficulties? I'm reading the bit that says protection runs 
from the date of completion of the database - which is either already 
done, or never to be achieved. Either way I'm struggling to be sure 
that a database imported into the EU (perhaps considered complete on 
the day of import?) would have the protection.


Or do we need two databases - the UK-based one that is protected under 
the legacy agreement (until the UK Parliament decides otherwise, I 
suppose), and the new EU one, and the servers work off them in tandem?


On Thu, 10 Dec 2020 at 23:18, Simon Poole > wrote:


To answer the questions caveat there is no relevant court
decisions that I know of, so this is all likely untested:
insubstantial changes to a database do not create a new one, but
substantial changes do. Where the line is drawn, or better where
the OSMF draws the line, is currently open. See article 10
https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/?uri=celex%3A31996L0009


Simon

Am 10.12.2020 um 22:11 schrieb Edward Bainton:

A pleasure meeting you all at LWG this evening.

I saw Brexit in the minutes for September
"At the end of year we won't be losing database rights immediately."

General guidance I've seen appears to say:
- database rights accrued before 2021-01-01 persist (as I've seen
discussed in minutes)
- database rights accrued from 2021-01-01 will exist only in the
UK (if at all: I can't see any enabling legislation after a quick
look, and this may have gone into the Govt's "later" tray - so
copyright may be the only protection).

The last point suggests to me that any edits made after
2020-01-01 will have less protection than so far has been the case.

Is that your understanding? Or is the database as a whole
protected because the architecture has been built, and subsequent
edits are protected modifications of an already-protected creation?

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Re: [Talk-GB] driveway-becomes-track

[Martin Wynne]

On 13/12/2020 13:45, Nick wrote:

what do people think of Overlapping ways i.e. one is a road and 
a duplicate is a bridleway? Not elegant and something I would not 
normally suggest but...


Hi Nick,

When I've tried that in the past I've been jumped on for breaking a 
fundamental rule of OSM that one feature should have only one entry in 
the database.


Martin.

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Re: [Talk-GB] Noverton Farm - driveway-becomes-track

[Martin Wynne]

On 13/12/2020 09:06, Nick Whitelegg wrote:

Apologies for going off topic, but I knew that name (Noverton Farm) 
sounded familiar.


A quick check of where it is would explain why. In 1998 I did a  long 
distance walk from Sussex to the Peak District, following ordinary 
footpaths (planned using OS maps) and went through this area, the Teme 
Valley. It was very nice *but*​ the footpaths were in an appaling state 
of disrepair, I remember on several occasions that day having to 
scramble through dense shrub cover and attempt to negotiate barbed-wire 
fences. I seem to recall Noverton Farm as being the site of some 
particularly badly-maintained footpaths.


Hi Nick,

The footpaths in the area, or at least the ones walked by me, are now no 
worse than in other areas of Worcestershire. Here is Noverton Farm with 
stile:


 https://85a.uk/noverton_stile_1280x800.jpg

The heavy lifting appears to have been done by the local Ramblers 
volunteers:


 https://85a.uk/noverton_ramblers_1280x800.jpg

Others nearby have been replaced with galvanised kissing gates, again 
with the Ramblers doing the actual work.


The state of the footpath between them tends to depend on the time of 
year and the state of the crops. Farmers tend not to regard their legal 
requirement to reinstate footpaths within 14 days as being at the top of 
their to-do list.


cheers,

Martin.


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Re: [Talk-GB] driveway-becomes-track

[Nick]

I will throw something in the pot, apart from using the "Cycle map" 
solution what do people think of Overlapping ways i.e. one is a road and 
a duplicate is a bridleway? Not elegant and something I would not 
normally suggest but...


On 13/12/2020 13:00, Martin Wynne wrote:
As the OP on this, all I can say is that in this part of the world, 
which includes that farm, that roadway would be called a "farm drive" 
(not "driveway") with double gates and a nameboard where it leaves the 
public road.


If you referred to the "track leading to the farm" the farmer might 
take offence after laying and rolling hardcore along it to make it 
suitable for all vehicles. A "track" is a narrow muddy lane between 
fields, and a farm at the end of one would typically be an old-time 
tumbledown affair, not one ready to receive delivery vans from Amazon.


However, my post was not about the naming, but about the rendering on 
the standard OSM map. Where at zoom level 15 driveways are not 
rendered, but lower-grade tracks and bridleways are. It doesn't make 
sense to a user of that map, although I can see the intended logic 
behind it.


The simplest solution would to remove the driveway tag and simply 
leave it as "service road". But that then causes it to be rendered on 
the standard map at the same width and colour as a minor public road, 
which is equally confusing to a map user. However, I notice that the 
entry gates have not been mapped, so adding those to a basic service 
road may be the best solution, and I will do that.


thanks,

Martin.

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[Talk-it] Fonte di toponimi dubbi

[Stefano Lavori]

Buonasera, sono un contributore occasionale di OSM e volevo una mano da voi
veterani per risalire alla fonte (Istat 2001 - geodati.gfoss.it) citata per
gli elementi di questo changeset:

https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/2002049

Il problema di *alcuni* di quei toponimi e' che sono toponimi assolutamente
dialettali e di utilizzo molto ristretto (tipicamente delle 3/4 famiglie che
abitano nei dintorni) ed oltretutto neanche la loro grafia mi convince al
100%. Per esempio "Biasciuokc": quel "kc" finale non ha alcun senso
foneticamente. Sembrano decisamente soprannomi dati alle famiglie che
abitavano in quel preciso luogo in un preciso lasso di tempo (passato): uno
su tutti "Saittì" (peperoncino). Sono della zona e queste dinamiche mi sono
ben note. Ho chiesto anche informazioni ad un mio conoscente nativo di
Sant'Egidio alla Vibrata il quale afferma di non averli mai sentiti.

Quindi riassumendo io sarei per eliminare almeno quelli piu' impropri e piu'
piccoli ma prima di fare qualsiasi cosa volevo in primis informarmi sulla
fonte di
questi toponimi.

Grazie
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Re: [Talk-GB] map styles on osm.org; other sites (was: Re: driveway-becomes-track)

[Nick]

Totally agree that openstreetmap.org isn't supposed to be a "general 
public" map destination but without knowing user journeys, I assume that 
is where most people land.


Options could be that openstreetmap.org provide alternative links based 
on locality and/or develop robust (N.B. tiles from opencyclemap.org 
seems to have security issue) local solutions that are found by search 
engines (i.e. good search engine optimisation)


On 13/12/2020 12:12, Andy Townsend wrote:



On 13/12/2020 11:16, Mateusz Konieczny via Talk-GB wrote:

Note that someone who wants to show their map style at OSM website can
be included, though they must sponsor hosting

See 
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Featured_tile_layers/Guidelines_for_new_tile_layers 



As far as I know, the main blocker seems to be
"Capable of meeting traffic demands. The proposed tile layer 
server/server farm
must be capable of accepting the traffic volume from the 
OpenStreetMap website."


ÖPNVKarte is map style that joined recently.

Dec 13, 2020, 12:08 by n...@foresters.org:

Seems to me that apart from the tagging, the issue highlighted
here is with how the general public can easily use OSM? Going to
the OSM map, the layers on offer are Standard, Cycle Map (which
does show the driveway connected) etc. but if a user wants a more
specific use this is not easy to find. To my mind this is where
more options from the worldwide map fail to deliver and is a
bigger issue that can be resolved by understanding the 'customer'
journey better?

The main blocker for a map that shows public footpaths etc. would 
actually be the "Global scope and coverage" requirement on that page, 
since public footpaths only exist in England and Wales.


It used to be possible to easily replace tiles from one of the map 
styles at osm.org with another one, but since the move to https-only 
tiles that's now much harder to do.  You can replace (say) 
https://map.atownsend.org.uk/hot/9/253/166.png with 
https://tile-a.openstreetmap.fr/hot/9/253/166.png at the hosts file 
level, but need to click through a "scary browser warning" every few days.


More generally openstreetmap.org isn't really designed as a "general 
public" map destination, which is fair enough (it can't do 
everything).  It's easy to make suggestions like "it should do X as 
well" - the tricky bit is actually doing it and maintaining it.  I'd 
definitely prefer a project landing page that's closer to the German 
one https://openstreetmap.de/ , but I don't have the skills, energy, 
time or enthusiasm to make that happen.  I particularly like the 
"showroom" there - a link to lots of different map styles, separate 
from the main openstreetmap.de map.


Another example that is surely worth mentioning here is 
https://cycle.travel - that's designed for a particular use case.  I 
suspect that most people become aware of OSM by seeing the name at the 
bottom-right of a completely different site that someone sent them to 
because it was useful.  Another indication of this is the number of 
help questions that we see where people are having problems with "the 
openstreetmap app" or "the site gives an error" (and that site clearly 
isn't openstreetmap.org).


Best Regards,

Andy



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Re: [Talk-GB] driveway-becomes-track

[Martin Wynne]

As the OP on this, all I can say is that in this part of the world, 
which includes that farm, that roadway would be called a "farm drive" 
(not "driveway") with double gates and a nameboard where it leaves the 
public road.


If you referred to the "track leading to the farm" the farmer might take 
offence after laying and rolling hardcore along it to make it suitable 
for all vehicles. A "track" is a narrow muddy lane between fields, and a 
farm at the end of one would typically be an old-time tumbledown affair, 
not one ready to receive delivery vans from Amazon.


However, my post was not about the naming, but about the rendering on 
the standard OSM map. Where at zoom level 15 driveways are not rendered, 
but lower-grade tracks and bridleways are. It doesn't make sense to a 
user of that map, although I can see the intended logic behind it.


The simplest solution would to remove the driveway tag and simply leave 
it as "service road". But that then causes it to be rendered on the 
standard map at the same width and colour as a minor public road, which 
is equally confusing to a map user. However, I notice that the entry 
gates have not been mapped, so adding those to a basic service road may 
be the best solution, and I will do that.


thanks,

Martin.

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Re: [OSM-ja] 12/19 京都！街歩き！マッピングパーティ：第23回 常寂光寺

[yasunari yamashita]

山下です。皆さんこんにちわ。

京都！街歩き！マッピングパーティ
次回第23回は、次の週末に 慶長年間に大本山本圀寺第16世究竟院日禛上人により開創された常寂光寺

ゆるーり街歩きしてサーベイ（現地調査）
向日市の会議室で OpenStreetMap にマッピング（地図編集）、
マッピングの後は激辛懇親会！！
https://openstreetmap-kyoto.connpass.com/event/197663/

皆様の参加をお待ちしています！

※※
状況によっては直前に中止にしたり、内容を変更する可能性があります。
ご承知おきください

2020年11月30日(月) 22:45 yasunari yamashita :
>
> 京都！街歩き！マッピングパーティ世話役の山下です。
> 皆さんこんにちわ。
>
> 京都！街歩き！マッピングパーティ
> 次回第23回は、慶長年間に大本山本圀寺第16世究竟院日禛上人により開創された常寂光寺
>
> ゆるーり街歩きしてサーベイ（現地調査）
> 向日市の会議室で OpenStreetMap にマッピング（地図編集）、
> マッピングの後は激辛懇親会！！
> https://openstreetmap-kyoto.connpass.com/event/197663/
>
> 皆様の参加をお待ちしています！
>
> ※※
> 状況によっては直前に中止にしたり、内容を変更する可能性があります。
> ご承知おきください
>
> --
> 山下康成＠京都府向日市



-- 
山下康成＠京都府向日市
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[OSM-talk-nl] Vespucci - NL Vertalingen

[Hidde Wieringa]

Hallo,

De Android applicatie Vespucci 
 wordt 
door veel mappers gebruikt om OSM te verbeteren. Het viel me afgelopen 
maanden op dat de Nederlandse vertalingen van de app grootendeels 
ontbraken. Daarom heb ik deze toegevoegd via Transifex, zoals staat 
beschreven in de documentatie van het project.


Vanaf versie 15.1  
zijn de eerste volledige Nederlandse vertalingen onderdeel van de app. 
Dat houdt in:


 * Teksten en labels op knoppen en in menu's;
 * Veel voorkeuzen met alle mogelijke tags en bijbehorende waarden
   (duizenden);
 * De introductie pagina van de "Hulp" sectie. De andere "Hulp"
   pagina's kunnen niet vertaald worden.

Ik hoop dat hiermee bijdragen aan OSM voor Nederlands-sprekenden weer 
een stapje gemakkelijker wordt. Reacties zijn welkom, al kunnen 
verbeteringen aan de vertalingen altijd direct via Transifex 
 worden doorgevoerd.


Vriendelijke groet,
/Hidde Wieringa/

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Re: [Talk-GB] driveway-becomes-track

[Andy Townsend]

On 13/12/2020 11:30, ael via Talk-GB wrote:

On Sun, Dec 13, 2020 at 10:44:24AM +, Peter Neale via Talk-GB wrote:

IMHO, if it leads on to another road, track, etc. it is not a "driveway", but 
could be a track, a bridleway, a service road, or something else.

FWIIW, I would very definitely tag that as a service road. Driveway
seems quite inappropriate.


Based on what I've seen, I'd probably tag the whole thing as a track 
with appropriate surface tags :) , but I can think of plenty of 
unequivacal driveways that have public rights of way along them.


https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/529287631 is pretty typical, 
https://overpass-turbo.eu/s/119h finds lots more.


Best Regards,

Andy



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Re: [Talk-GB] driveway-becomes-track

[Dudley Ibbett]

OSMAND has recently had some very positive comments about walking on an 
unrelated (to OSM) forum I use.  It also doesn't appear to render on the basis 
of whether there is a service=driveway tag at the moment.  In the field, as a 
walker, given you can download the maps, it is what I would consider suggesting 
someone try if they asked me rather than the main OSM website.

I've had the debate about the use of track/service some time ago.

I go the impression that highway=track was initially used based on the surface 
rather than the "function".

I now try and tag on the basis of what I think is the function.  So if it is 
the highway to an isolated residence or residences (farmyards that have been 
sold off for housing are quite often multiple residences) or a farmyard (which 
will include a residence) I would use highway=service and service=driveway.  I 
would add a surface tag for the surface.  I might even add a tracktype tag as 
in reality this is just another descriptor for a surface.   If the highway is 
to farm buildings only (you get isolated barn/s in fields) or into fields I 
would use highway=track.

One advantage of having service=driveway rendered differently on the main OSM 
website is that you can use it to QC your use  of this tag!

Dudley




From: ael via Talk-GB 
Sent: 13 December 2020 11:41
To: talk-gb@openstreetmap.org 
Subject: Re: [Talk-GB] driveway-becomes-track

On Sat, Dec 12, 2020 at 09:11:32PM +, Martin Wynne wrote:
> On 12/12/2020 17:37, Andy Townsend wrote:
>
>
> What I'm wondering is how the typical recreational country walker would find
> that map, or get it on their mobile phone app in place of the awful Google
> maps? It's a lot of work to create if no-one ever uses it?

Just to mention that I use navit on my satnavs, and that has a good
"POI" feature which would show benches in the vicinity. I understand
that there is a Android version, so presumably it works on those
types of smartphone.

https://github.com/navit-gps & https://www.navit-project.org/ etc.

ael


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[Talk-GB] map styles on osm.org; other sites (was: Re: driveway-becomes-track)

[Andy Townsend]

On 13/12/2020 11:16, Mateusz Konieczny via Talk-GB wrote:

Note that someone who wants to show their map style at OSM website can
be included, though they must sponsor hosting

See 
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Featured_tile_layers/Guidelines_for_new_tile_layers


As far as I know, the main blocker seems to be
"Capable of meeting traffic demands. The proposed tile layer 
server/server farm
must be capable of accepting the traffic volume from the OpenStreetMap 
website."


ÖPNVKarte is map style that joined recently.

Dec 13, 2020, 12:08 by n...@foresters.org:

Seems to me that apart from the tagging, the issue highlighted
here is with how the general public can easily use OSM? Going to
the OSM map, the layers on offer are Standard, Cycle Map (which
does show the driveway connected) etc. but if a user wants a more
specific use this is not easy to find. To my mind this is where
more options from the worldwide map fail to deliver and is a
bigger issue that can be resolved by understanding the 'customer'
journey better?

The main blocker for a map that shows public footpaths etc. would 
actually be the "Global scope and coverage" requirement on that page, 
since public footpaths only exist in England and Wales.


It used to be possible to easily replace tiles from one of the map 
styles at osm.org with another one, but since the move to https-only 
tiles that's now much harder to do.  You can replace (say) 
https://map.atownsend.org.uk/hot/9/253/166.png with 
https://tile-a.openstreetmap.fr/hot/9/253/166.png at the hosts file 
level, but need to click through a "scary browser warning" every few days.


More generally openstreetmap.org isn't really designed as a "general 
public" map destination, which is fair enough (it can't do everything).  
It's easy to make suggestions like "it should do X as well" - the tricky 
bit is actually doing it and maintaining it.  I'd definitely prefer a 
project landing page that's closer to the German one 
https://openstreetmap.de/ , but I don't have the skills, energy, time or 
enthusiasm to make that happen.  I particularly like the "showroom" 
there - a link to lots of different map styles, separate from the main 
openstreetmap.de map.


Another example that is surely worth mentioning here is 
https://cycle.travel - that's designed for a particular use case. I 
suspect that most people become aware of OSM by seeing the name at the 
bottom-right of a completely different site that someone sent them to 
because it was useful.  Another indication of this is the number of help 
questions that we see where people are having problems with "the 
openstreetmap app" or "the site gives an error" (and that site clearly 
isn't openstreetmap.org).


Best Regards,

Andy


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[Talk-de] weeklyOSM #542 2020-12-01-2020-12-07

[weeklyteam]

Die Wochennotiz Ausgabe Nr. # 542, ist nun verfügbar - 
wie immer mit vielen Nachrichten aus dem OSM-Universium:

https://www.weeklyosm.eu/de/archives/14046/

Viel Spaß beim Lesen.  

Euer Wochennotizteam

Wusstet ihr, dass ihr auch selbst Meldungen für die Wochennotiz
einreichen könnt? Einfach auf https://osmbc.openstreetmap.de/ 
mit eurem OSM-Benutzerkonto anmelden und dann den Gastzugang benutzen. 

weeklyOSM? 
who: https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/WeeklyOSM#Available_Languages 
where?: 
https://umap.openstreetmap.fr/en/map/weeklyosm-is-currently-produced-in_56718#2/8.6/108.3
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[Talk-in] weeklyOSM #542 2020-12-01-2020-12-07

[weeklyteam]

The weekly round-up of OSM news, issue # 542,
is now available online in English, giving as always a summary of a lot of 
things happening in the openstreetmap world:

 https://www.weeklyosm.eu/en/archives/14046/

Enjoy! 

Did you know that you can also submit messages for the weeklyOSM? Just log in 
to https://osmbc.openstreetmap.de/login with your OSM account. Read more about 
how to write a post here: 
http://www.weeklyosm.eu/this-news-should-be-in-weeklyosm 

weeklyOSM? 
who: https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/WeeklyOSM#Available_Languages 
where?: 
https://umap.openstreetmap.fr/en/map/weeklyosm-is-currently-produced-in_56718#2/8.6/108.3
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[OSM-talk-ie] weeklyOSM #542 2020-12-01-2020-12-07

[weeklyteam]

The weekly round-up of OSM news, issue # 542,
is now available online in English, giving as always a summary of a lot of 
things happening in the openstreetmap world:

 https://www.weeklyosm.eu/en/archives/14046/

Enjoy! 

Did you know that you can also submit messages for the weeklyOSM? Just log in 
to https://osmbc.openstreetmap.de/login with your OSM account. Read more about 
how to write a post here: 
http://www.weeklyosm.eu/this-news-should-be-in-weeklyosm 

weeklyOSM? 
who: https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/WeeklyOSM#Available_Languages 
where?: 
https://umap.openstreetmap.fr/en/map/weeklyosm-is-currently-produced-in_56718#2/8.6/108.3
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[Talk-GB] weeklyOSM #542 2020-12-01-2020-12-07

[weeklyteam]

The weekly round-up of OSM news, issue # 542,
is now available online in English, giving as always a summary of a lot of 
things happening in the openstreetmap world:

 https://www.weeklyosm.eu/en/archives/14046/

Enjoy! 

Did you know that you can also submit messages for the weeklyOSM? Just log in 
to https://osmbc.openstreetmap.de/login with your OSM account. Read more about 
how to write a post here: 
http://www.weeklyosm.eu/this-news-should-be-in-weeklyosm 

weeklyOSM? 
who: https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/WeeklyOSM#Available_Languages 
where?: 
https://umap.openstreetmap.fr/en/map/weeklyosm-is-currently-produced-in_56718#2/8.6/108.3
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[Talk-ca] weeklyOSM #542 2020-12-01-2020-12-07

[weeklyteam]

The weekly round-up of OSM news, issue # 542,
is now available online in English, giving as always a summary of a lot of 
things happening in the openstreetmap world:

 https://www.weeklyosm.eu/en/archives/14046/

Enjoy! 

Did you know that you can also submit messages for the weeklyOSM? Just log in 
to https://osmbc.openstreetmap.de/login with your OSM account. Read more about 
how to write a post here: 
http://www.weeklyosm.eu/this-news-should-be-in-weeklyosm 

weeklyOSM? 
who: https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/WeeklyOSM#Available_Languages 
where?: 
https://umap.openstreetmap.fr/en/map/weeklyosm-is-currently-produced-in_56718#2/8.6/108.3
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[Talk-us] weeklyOSM #542 2020-12-01-2020-12-07

[weeklyteam]

The weekly round-up of OSM news, issue # 542,
is now available online in English, giving as always a summary of a lot of 
things happening in the openstreetmap world:

 https://www.weeklyosm.eu/en/archives/14046/

Enjoy! 

Did you know that you can also submit messages for the weeklyOSM? Just log in 
to https://osmbc.openstreetmap.de/login with your OSM account. Read more about 
how to write a post here: 
http://www.weeklyosm.eu/this-news-should-be-in-weeklyosm 

weeklyOSM? 
who: https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/WeeklyOSM#Available_Languages 
where?: 
https://umap.openstreetmap.fr/en/map/weeklyosm-is-currently-produced-in_56718#2/8.6/108.3
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[OSM-talk] weeklyOSM #542 2020-12-01-2020-12-07

[weeklyteam]

The weekly round-up of OSM news, issue # 542,
is now available online in English, giving as always a summary of a lot of 
things happening in the openstreetmap world:

 https://www.weeklyosm.eu/en/archives/14046/

Enjoy! 

Did you know that you can also submit messages for the weeklyOSM? Just log in 
to https://osmbc.openstreetmap.de/login with your OSM account. Read more about 
how to write a post here: 
http://www.weeklyosm.eu/this-news-should-be-in-weeklyosm 

weeklyOSM? 
who: https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/WeeklyOSM#Available_Languages 
where?: 
https://umap.openstreetmap.fr/en/map/weeklyosm-is-currently-produced-in_56718#2/8.6/108.3
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[talk-ph] weeklyOSM #542 2020-12-01-2020-12-07

[weeklyteam]

The weekly round-up of OSM news, issue # 542,
is now available online in English, giving as always a summary of a lot of 
things happening in the openstreetmap world:

 https://www.weeklyosm.eu/en/archives/14046/

Enjoy! 

Did you know that you can also submit messages for the weeklyOSM? Just log in 
to https://osmbc.openstreetmap.de/login with your OSM account. Read more about 
how to write a post here: 
http://www.weeklyosm.eu/this-news-should-be-in-weeklyosm 

weeklyOSM? 
who: https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/WeeklyOSM#Available_Languages 
where?: 
https://umap.openstreetmap.fr/en/map/weeklyosm-is-currently-produced-in_56718#2/8.6/108.3
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[Talk-africa] weeklyOSM #542 2020-12-01-2020-12-07

[weeklyteam]

The weekly round-up of OSM news, issue # 542,
is now available online in English, giving as always a summary of a lot of 
things happening in the openstreetmap world:

 https://www.weeklyosm.eu/en/archives/14046/

Enjoy! 

Did you know that you can also submit messages for the weeklyOSM? Just log in 
to https://osmbc.openstreetmap.de/login with your OSM account. Read more about 
how to write a post here: 
http://www.weeklyosm.eu/this-news-should-be-in-weeklyosm 

weeklyOSM? 
who: https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/WeeklyOSM#Available_Languages 
where?: 
https://umap.openstreetmap.fr/en/map/weeklyosm-is-currently-produced-in_56718#2/8.6/108.3
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[Talk-es] semanarioOSM Nº 542 2020-12-01-2020-12-07

[theweekly . osm]

Hola, el semanario Nº 542, el sumario de todo lo que está ocurriendo en el 
mundo de openstreetmap está en línea en *español*:

https://www.weeklyosm.eu/es/archives/14046/

¡Disfruta!

¿Sabías que también puedes enviar mensajes para la nota semanal sin ser 
miembro? Simplemente ingresa a https://osmbc.openstreetmap.de/login con tu 
cuenta de OSM. Lee más sobre cómo escribir una publicación aquí: 
http://www.weeklyosm.eu/es/this-news-should-be-in-weeklyosm 

semanarioOSM? 
¿Dónde?: https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/WeeklyOSM#Available_Languages 
¿Quién?: 
https://umap.openstreetmap.fr/en/map/weeklyosm-is-currently-produced-in_56718#2/8.6/108.3
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[Talk-cu] semanarioOSM Nº 542 2020-12-01-2020-12-07

[theweekly . osm]

Hola, el semanario Nº 542, el sumario de todo lo que está ocurriendo en el 
mundo de openstreetmap está en línea en *español*:

https://www.weeklyosm.eu/es/archives/14046/

¡Disfruta!

¿Sabías que también puedes enviar mensajes para la nota semanal sin ser 
miembro? Simplemente ingresa a https://osmbc.openstreetmap.de/login con tu 
cuenta de OSM. Lee más sobre cómo escribir una publicación aquí: 
http://www.weeklyosm.eu/es/this-news-should-be-in-weeklyosm 

semanarioOSM? 
¿Dónde?: https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/WeeklyOSM#Available_Languages 
¿Quién?: 
https://umap.openstreetmap.fr/en/map/weeklyosm-is-currently-produced-in_56718#2/8.6/108.3
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[Talk-bo] semanarioOSM Nº 542 2020-12-01-2020-12-07

[theweekly . osm]

Hola, el semanario Nº 542, el sumario de todo lo que está ocurriendo en el 
mundo de openstreetmap está en línea en *español*:

https://www.weeklyosm.eu/es/archives/14046/

¡Disfruta!

¿Sabías que también puedes enviar mensajes para la nota semanal sin ser 
miembro? Simplemente ingresa a https://osmbc.openstreetmap.de/login con tu 
cuenta de OSM. Lee más sobre cómo escribir una publicación aquí: 
http://www.weeklyosm.eu/es/this-news-should-be-in-weeklyosm 

semanarioOSM? 
¿Dónde?: https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/WeeklyOSM#Available_Languages 
¿Quién?: 
https://umap.openstreetmap.fr/en/map/weeklyosm-is-currently-produced-in_56718#2/8.6/108.3
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[talk-latam] semanarioOSM Nº 542 2020-12-01-2020-12-07

[theweekly . osm]

Hola, el semanario Nº 542, el sumario de todo lo que está ocurriendo en el 
mundo de openstreetmap está en línea en *español*:

https://www.weeklyosm.eu/es/archives/14046/

¡Disfruta!

¿Sabías que también puedes enviar mensajes para la nota semanal sin ser 
miembro? Simplemente ingresa a https://osmbc.openstreetmap.de/login con tu 
cuenta de OSM. Lee más sobre cómo escribir una publicación aquí: 
http://www.weeklyosm.eu/es/this-news-should-be-in-weeklyosm 

semanarioOSM? 
¿Dónde?: https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/WeeklyOSM#Available_Languages 
¿Quién?: 
https://umap.openstreetmap.fr/en/map/weeklyosm-is-currently-produced-in_56718#2/8.6/108.3
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[Talk-cl] semanarioOSM Nº 542 2020-12-01-2020-12-07

[theweekly . osm]

Hola, el semanario Nº 542, el sumario de todo lo que está ocurriendo en el 
mundo de openstreetmap está en línea en *español*:

https://www.weeklyosm.eu/es/archives/14046/

¡Disfruta!

¿Sabías que también puedes enviar mensajes para la nota semanal sin ser 
miembro? Simplemente ingresa a https://osmbc.openstreetmap.de/login con tu 
cuenta de OSM. Lee más sobre cómo escribir una publicación aquí: 
http://www.weeklyosm.eu/es/this-news-should-be-in-weeklyosm 

semanarioOSM? 
¿Dónde?: https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/WeeklyOSM#Available_Languages 
¿Quién?: 
https://umap.openstreetmap.fr/en/map/weeklyosm-is-currently-produced-in_56718#2/8.6/108.3
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[OSM-co] semanarioOSM Nº 542 2020-12-01-2020-12-07

[theweekly . osm]

Hola, el semanario Nº 542, el sumario de todo lo que está ocurriendo en el 
mundo de openstreetmap está en línea en *español*:

https://www.weeklyosm.eu/es/archives/14046/

¡Disfruta!

¿Sabías que también puedes enviar mensajes para la nota semanal sin ser 
miembro? Simplemente ingresa a https://osmbc.openstreetmap.de/login con tu 
cuenta de OSM. Lee más sobre cómo escribir una publicación aquí: 
http://www.weeklyosm.eu/es/this-news-should-be-in-weeklyosm 

semanarioOSM? 
¿Dónde?: https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/WeeklyOSM#Available_Languages 
¿Quién?: 
https://umap.openstreetmap.fr/en/map/weeklyosm-is-currently-produced-in_56718#2/8.6/108.3
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[Talk-br] semanárioOSM Nº 542 2020-12-01-2020-12-07

[theweekly . osm]

Bom dia,

O semanárioOSM Nº 542, o resumo de tudo o que acontece no mundo OpenStreetMap, 
está publicado *em português* : 

https://www.weeklyosm.eu/pb/archives/14046/

Aproveite!

Você sabia que também pode enviar mensagens para o OSM semanal/semanárioOSMſ 
sem ser membro? Basta fazer login em https://osmbc.openstreetmap.de/login com 
sua conta OSM e usar a conta de convidado. Leia mais sobre como escrever um 
post aqui: http://www.weeklyosm.eu/this-news-should-be-in-weeklyosm

semanarioOSM? 
Quem?: https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/WeeklyOSM#Available_Languages 
Onde?: 
https://umap.openstreetmap.fr/en/map/weeklyosm-is-currently-produced-in_56718#2/8.6/108.3
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[Talk-pt] semanárioOSM Nº 542 2020-12-01-2020-12-07

[theweekly . osm]

Bom dia,

O semanárioOSM Nº 542, o resumo de tudo o que acontece no mundo OpenStreetMap, 
está publicado *em português* : 

https://www.weeklyosm.eu/pb/archives/14046/

Aproveite!

Você sabia que também pode enviar mensagens para o OSM semanal/semanárioOSMſ 
sem ser membro? Basta fazer login em https://osmbc.openstreetmap.de/login com 
sua conta OSM e usar a conta de convidado. Leia mais sobre como escrever um 
post aqui: http://www.weeklyosm.eu/this-news-should-be-in-weeklyosm

semanarioOSM? 
Quem?: https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/WeeklyOSM#Available_Languages 
Onde?: 
https://umap.openstreetmap.fr/en/map/weeklyosm-is-currently-produced-in_56718#2/8.6/108.3
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[Talk-it] weeklyOSM #542 2020-12-01-2020-12-07

[weeklyteam]

Il settimanale di notizie su OSM, numero # 542, è ora disponibile online in 
italiano, 
fornendo come sempre un riassunto di molte cose che accadono nel mondo 
OpenStreetMap: 

https://www.weeklyosm.eu/it/archives/14046/

Buona lettura! 

Sai che possono anche inviare messaggi per il weeklyOSM? Basta effettuare il 
login 
su https://osmbc.openstreetmap.de/login con il tuo account OSM. 

Per saperne di più su come scrivere un messaggio, leggi qui: 
http://www.weeklyosm.eu/this-news-should-be-in-weeklyosm 
weeklyOSM? 

chi: https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/WeeklyOSM#Available_Languages 
dove?: 
https://umap.openstreetmap.fr/en/map/weeklyosm-is-currently-produced-in_56718#2/8.6/108.3
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[OSM-talk-fr] hebdoOSM Nº 542 2020-12-01-2020-12-07

[theweekly . osm]

Bonjour,

Le résumé hebdomadaire n° 542 de l'actualité OpenStreetMap vient de paraître 
*en français*. Un condensé à retrouver sur :

https://www.weeklyosm.eu/fr/archives/14046/

Bonne lecture !

Saviez-vous que vous pouvez vous aussi soumettre des messages pour la note 
hebdomadaire sans être membre ? Il vous suffit de vous connecter sur 
https://osmbc.openstreetmap.de/login avec votre compte OSM. Pour en savoir plus 
sur la rédaction d'un article, cliquez ici: 
http://www.weeklyosm.eu/fr/this-news-should-be-in-weeklyosm

hebdoOSM ? 
Qui : https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/WeeklyOSM#Available_Languages 
Où : 
https://umap.openstreetmap.fr/en/map/weeklyosm-is-currently-produced-in_56718#2/8.6/108.3
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[Talk-ht] hebdoOSM Nº 542 2020-12-01-2020-12-07

[theweekly . osm]

Bonjour,

Le résumé hebdomadaire n° 542 de l'actualité OpenStreetMap vient de paraître 
*en français*. Un condensé à retrouver sur :

https://www.weeklyosm.eu/fr/archives/14046/

Bonne lecture !

Saviez-vous que vous pouvez vous aussi soumettre des messages pour la note 
hebdomadaire sans être membre ? Il vous suffit de vous connecter sur 
https://osmbc.openstreetmap.de/login avec votre compte OSM. Pour en savoir plus 
sur la rédaction d'un article, cliquez ici: 
http://www.weeklyosm.eu/fr/this-news-should-be-in-weeklyosm

hebdoOSM ? 
Qui : https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/WeeklyOSM#Available_Languages 
Où : 
https://umap.openstreetmap.fr/en/map/weeklyosm-is-currently-produced-in_56718#2/8.6/108.3
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Notez! Vous pouvez utiliser Google Translate (http://translate.google.com) pour 
traduire les messages.

[Talk-ca] hebdoOSM Nº 542 2020-12-01-2020-12-07

[theweekly . osm]

Bonjour,

Le résumé hebdomadaire n° 542 de l'actualité OpenStreetMap vient de paraître 
*en français*. Un condensé à retrouver sur :

https://www.weeklyosm.eu/fr/archives/14046/

Bonne lecture !

Saviez-vous que vous pouvez vous aussi soumettre des messages pour la note 
hebdomadaire sans être membre ? Il vous suffit de vous connecter sur 
https://osmbc.openstreetmap.de/login avec votre compte OSM. Pour en savoir plus 
sur la rédaction d'un article, cliquez ici: 
http://www.weeklyosm.eu/fr/this-news-should-be-in-weeklyosm

hebdoOSM ? 
Qui : https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/WeeklyOSM#Available_Languages 
Où : 
https://umap.openstreetmap.fr/en/map/weeklyosm-is-currently-produced-in_56718#2/8.6/108.3
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[Talk-africa] hebdoOSM Nº 542 2020-12-01-2020-12-07

[theweekly . osm]

Bonjour,

Le résumé hebdomadaire n° 542 de l'actualité OpenStreetMap vient de paraître 
*en français*. Un condensé à retrouver sur :

https://www.weeklyosm.eu/fr/archives/14046/

Bonne lecture !

Saviez-vous que vous pouvez vous aussi soumettre des messages pour la note 
hebdomadaire sans être membre ? Il vous suffit de vous connecter sur 
https://osmbc.openstreetmap.de/login avec votre compte OSM. Pour en savoir plus 
sur la rédaction d'un article, cliquez ici: 
http://www.weeklyosm.eu/fr/this-news-should-be-in-weeklyosm

hebdoOSM ? 
Qui : https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/WeeklyOSM#Available_Languages 
Où : 
https://umap.openstreetmap.fr/en/map/weeklyosm-is-currently-produced-in_56718#2/8.6/108.3
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[Talk-ko] weeklyOSM #542 2020-12-01-2020-12-07

[weeklyteam]

매주 일어나는 OSM 소식을 종합한, 542번째 주간OSM이 발행되었습니다.

https://www.weeklyosm.eu/ko/archives/14046/

읽어 주셔서 감사합니다!
셨나요? 그냥 https://osmbc.openstreetmap.de/login 에 들어가서 오픈스트리트맵 계정으로 로그인하기만 하면 됩니다. 
기사 작성법 등의 정보는 여기를 참조하세요.
주간OSM이란? 
누가?: https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/WeeklyOSM#Available_Languages 
어디서?: 
https://umap.openstreetmap.fr/en/map/weeklyosm-is-currently-produced-in_56718#2/8.6/108.3
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Re: [Talk-GB] driveway-becomes-track

[Alan Mackie]

On Sun, 13 Dec 2020 at 11:14, Mateusz Konieczny via Talk-GB <
talk-gb@openstreetmap.org> wrote:

> I run into from time to time and was unsure how to tag this.
>
> On the other hand highway=track is supposed to be used on
> roads used to access fields/forests (often unpaved and of low
> quality, but there are also high quality asphalt
> tracktype=grade1 surface=asphalt ones).
>

I think I have said this previously, but this feels like a very "old world"
viewpoint to me (and yes I do know which list this is). Lexico's first
definition [1] more closely agrees with my feeling on the matter, but over
time the OSM wiki seems to have been edited progressively further away from
this usage.

In countries with a longer history, farming and forestry may be the last
bastions for this sort of "improvised but then improved as necessary" road,
but to my mind it is still counterintuitive to define tracks as "for
farming and forestry work". I would tend to say that the higher grades of
track may be more appropriately tagged as service roads, especially if they
look like someone's gone along and reworked them to be less 'opportunistic'
at some point. Yes, they serve a farm rather than a warehouse, but they are
still largely the same function.

[1]: https://www.lexico.com/definition/track


> So with road that is both access road to single house and
> forest neither highway=track nor highway=service service=driveway
> really matches.
>

I think it's a service road, drop the 'driveway' part for the multi-use
portion.


> Dec 13, 2020, 11:44 by talk-gb@openstreetmap.org:
>
> IMHO, if it leads on to another road, track, etc. it is not a "driveway",
> but could be a track, a bridleway, a service road, or something else.
>
> The Wiki says that a driveway is (with my bold for emphasis),
>
> " ... a minor service road leading to a residential or business property.
> It typically branches from a bigger road and leads toward an entrance to a
> specific destination (building, etc.). It may end at or pass the entrance,
> but either way, it gets close to its destination. *It is rare for a
> driveway to be the way to access another roadway (but see Pipestems
> below)."*
>
> (pipestems allow a driveway to be shared between several properties)
>
> So if, in this case, it leads on to another way (e.g. a bridleway, or a
> track), it is not a driveway.  Does this solve the problem?
>
> Regards,
> Peter
>
> Peter Neale
> t: 01908 309666
> m: 07968 341930
> skype: nealepb
>
>
> On Sunday, 13 December 2020, 10:25:46 GMT, Edward Bainton <
> bainton@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> Sorry, I joined this thread late and I see the initial query was, How to
> ensure tracks don't just pop up nowhere'. So driveway first then track
> doesn't solve the problem.
>
> That makes me say track all the way, as someone else has said. The
> different surfaces can be caught in the attributes.
>
> On Sun, 13 Dec 2020 at 10:08, Edward Bainton 
> wrote:
>
> >  https://85a.uk/noverton_farm_1280x800.jpg
> >
> > It seems daft to me that the mud gets rendered but not the hardcore. If
> > I change the "driveway" to "track" that would be the dreaded tagging for
> > the renderer would it not? Generally in this part of the world "track"
> > means mud, rather than a roadway suitable for all vehicles.
>
> I don't know what part of the world you're in, but by my Fenland lights,
> I'd probably call that a track, not a driveway - certainly once it passes
> the farm buildings (since I see a driveway as implying car-worthy access to
> a building).
>
> Would that solve it? Driveway as far as the farm and then track?
>
> I'm going to risk blasphemy and suggest that tagging for the renderer is
> what we all do, all day (or why map?). The problem imo is "fudging it for
> the renderer", or "outright lying for the renderer". In this case, I'd say
> track is a valid choice - I think even for the whole length, if by
> "driveway" we infer something, short, tidy, and suburban.
>
> But I'm still a spring chicken round here, relatively speaking, and I
> await correction by my olders.
>
> On Sun, 13 Dec 2020 at 09:09, Nick Whitelegg via Talk-GB <
> talk-gb@openstreetmap.org> wrote:
>
> >Getting back to this case, this is the farm drive. Beyond the
> >cattle-grid the public bridleway continues left through the farm
> >buildings, and the surface deteriorates to the usual farm mud:
>
>   >https://85a.uk/noverton_farm_1280x800.jpg
>
>
> Apologies for going off topic, but I knew that name (Noverton Farm)
> sounded familiar.
>
> A quick check of where it is would explain why. In 1998 I did a  long
> distance walk from Sussex to the Peak District, following ordinary
> footpaths (planned using OS maps) and went through this area, the Teme
> Valley. It was very nice *but* the footpaths were in an appaling state of
> disrepair, I remember on several occasions that day having to scramble
> through dense shrub cover and attempt to negotiate barbed-wire fences. I
> seem to recall Noverton Farm as being the 

[OSM-ja] CC0データのインポート(GTFSデータ)

[OKADA Tsuneo]

岡田です。

データのインポートについて確認です。

バス会社のGTFSデータでいくつか、CC0のライセンスのものがあります。
(富山県、山梨県、岡山県などの一部の会社)

CC0で公開のデータについてはインポートしても問題ないという認識で良いでしょうか？

-- 
岡田常雄(OKADA Tsuneo)
tsuneo.ok...@gmail.com
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Re: [Talk-GB] driveway-becomes-track

[ael via Talk-GB]

On Sat, Dec 12, 2020 at 09:11:32PM +, Martin Wynne wrote:
> On 12/12/2020 17:37, Andy Townsend wrote:
> 
> 
> What I'm wondering is how the typical recreational country walker would find
> that map, or get it on their mobile phone app in place of the awful Google
> maps? It's a lot of work to create if no-one ever uses it?

Just to mention that I use navit on my satnavs, and that has a good
"POI" feature which would show benches in the vicinity. I understand
that there is a Android version, so presumably it works on those
types of smartphone.

https://github.com/navit-gps & https://www.navit-project.org/ etc.

ael


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Re: [OSM-legal-talk] Brexit & EU database rights

[Tom Hughes via legal-talk]

The primary database and one of the mirrors are already
in the EU and have been for several years.

There are currently two other mirrors both of which
are in the UK.

Tom

On 13/12/2020 09:21, Edward Bainton wrote:
Thank you for the link, now read. All you say on substantial changes 
makes sense.


So if we move the database into the EU, are we confident it would be all 
be protected under those terms? Does the hiatus from 1 Jan 2021 cause 
any difficulties? I'm reading the bit that says protection runs from the 
date of completion of the database - which is either already done, or 
never to be achieved. Either way I'm struggling to be sure that a 
database imported into the EU (perhaps considered complete on the day of 
import?) would have the protection.


Or do we need two databases - the UK-based one that is protected under 
the legacy agreement (until the UK Parliament decides otherwise, I 
suppose), and the new EU one, and the servers work off them in tandem?


On Thu, 10 Dec 2020 at 23:18, Simon Poole > wrote:


To answer the questions caveat there is no relevant court decisions
that I know of, so this is all likely untested: insubstantial
changes to a database do not create a new one, but substantial
changes do. Where the line is drawn, or better where the OSMF draws
the line, is currently open. See article 10
https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/?uri=celex%3A31996L0009


Simon

Am 10.12.2020 um 22:11 schrieb Edward Bainton:

A pleasure meeting you all at LWG this evening.

I saw Brexit in the minutes for September
"At the end of year we won't be losing database rights immediately."

General guidance I've seen appears to say:
- database rights accrued before 2021-01-01 persist (as I've seen
discussed in minutes)
- database rights accrued from 2021-01-01 will exist only in the
UK (if at all: I can't see any enabling legislation after a quick
look, and this may have gone into the Govt's "later" tray - so
copyright may be the only protection).

The last point suggests to me that any edits made after 2020-01-01
will have less protection than so far has been the case.

Is that your understanding? Or is the database as a whole
protected because the architecture has been built, and subsequent
edits are protected modifications of an already-protected creation?

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http://compton.nu/

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Re: [Talk-GB] driveway-becomes-track

[ael via Talk-GB]

On Sun, Dec 13, 2020 at 10:44:24AM +, Peter Neale via Talk-GB wrote:
> IMHO, if it leads on to another road, track, etc. it is not a "driveway", but 
> could be a track, a bridleway, a service road, or something else.

FWIIW, I would very definitely tag that as a service road. Driveway
seems quite inappropriate.

ael


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Re: [Talk-GB] driveway-becomes-track

[Mateusz Konieczny via Talk-GB]

Note that someone who wants to show their map style at OSM website can
be included, though they must sponsor hosting

See 
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Featured_tile_layers/Guidelines_for_new_tile_layers

As far as I know, the main blocker seems to be 
"Capable of meeting traffic demands. The proposed tile layer server/server farm
must be capable of accepting the traffic volume from the OpenStreetMap website."

ÖPNVKarte is map style that joined recently.

Dec 13, 2020, 12:08 by n...@foresters.org:

>
> Seems to me that apart from the tagging, the issue highlighted  here is 
> with how the general public cab easily use OSM? Going to  the OSM map, 
> the layers on offer are Standard, Cycle Map (which  does show the 
> driveway connected) etc. but if a user wants a more  specific use this is 
> not easy to find. To my mind this is where  more options from the 
> worldwide map fail to deliver and is a  bigger issue that can be resolved 
> by understanding the 'customer'  journey better? 
>
> On 13/12/2020 10:28, Nick Allen wrote:
>  
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> I tend to think of tagging more in terms of 'who will usethis?' I 
>> know my local area extremely well, so I map it as bestI can using 
>> tags that will make sense to anyone visiting thearea. When I'm away 
>> from home I use OSM extensively to findthings, and hope that the 
>> local mappers are using a universalscheme so that it will work for 
>> me.
>>
>> I've travelled on roads in Portugal, Spain an parts of Africawhich 
>> dont have a surface such as tarmac (tarmacadam / asphalt)or 
>> concrete, but instead have been built with a top coatingsimilar to 
>> clay, which is compressed and then smoothed using agrader. 
>> Particularly in Portugal, at the time I drove on them,these 
>> 'unsurfaced' roads were so good that they were better thanthe (at 
>> that time) M25 which was full of pot-holes and difficultto drive 
>> safely on.
>>
>> Although >> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Highways>>  is the obvious 
>> choice to look at, I actually find that >> 
>> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Highway_Tag_Africa>>  explains it better.
>>
>> Regards & Happy Mapping / Surveying
>>
>> Nick
>> (Tallguy)
>>
>> On Sun, 2020-12-13 at 10:08 +, Edward Bainton wrote:
>>
>>> >  >>> https://85a.uk/noverton_farm_1280x800.jpg
>>>  >
>>>  >>> > It seems daft to methat the mud gets rendered but not 
>>> the hardcore. If
>>>  >>> > I change the "driveway"to "track" that would be the 
>>> dreaded tagging for
>>>  >>> > the renderer would itnot? Generally in this part of the 
>>> world "track"
>>>  >>> > means mud, rather thana roadway suitable for all 
>>> vehicles.
>>>  
>>>
>>> I don't know what part  of the world you're in, but by my 
>>> Fenland lights, I'd  probably call that a track, not a driveway 
>>> - certainly  once it passes the farm buildings (since I see a 
>>> driveway  as implying car-worthy access to a building). 
>>>
>>> Would that solve it?  Driveway as far as the farm and then 
>>> track?
>>>
>>> I'm going to risk  blasphemy and suggest that tagging for the 
>>> renderer is  what we all do, all day (or why map?). The problem 
>>> imo is  "fudging it for the renderer", or "outright lying for 
>>> the  renderer". In this case, I'd say track is a valid choice - 
>>>  I think even for the whole length, if by "driveway" we 
>>>  infer something, short, tidy, and suburban.
>>>
>>> But I'm still a spring  chicken round here, relatively 
>>> speaking, and I await  correction by my olders.
>>>
>>> On Sun, 13 Dec 2020 at09:09, Nick Whitelegg via Talk-GB <>>> 
>>> talk-gb@openstreetmap.org>>> >wrote:
>>>
 >Getting  back to this case, this is the farm drive. 
 >Beyond the
   >cattle-grid  the public bridleway continues left 
 through the farm
   >buildings,  and the surface deteriorates to the 
 usual farm mud:
  
      > https://85a.uk/noverton_farm_1280x800.jpg


 Apologies  for going off topic, but I knew that name 
 (Noverton  Farm) sounded familiar.

 A  quick check of where it is would explain why. In 1998   
I did a  long distance walk from Sussex to the Peak 
  District, following ordinary footpaths (planned using 
  OS maps) and went through this area, the Teme Valley. 
  It was very nice  but  the footpaths were in an appaling state of 
  disrepair, I remember on several occasions that day   
having to 

Re: [Talk-GB] driveway-becomes-track

[Mateusz Konieczny via Talk-GB]

I run into from time to time and was unsure how to tag this.

On the other hand highway=track is supposed to be used on
roads used to access fields/forests (often unpaved and of low
quality, but there are also high quality asphalt
tracktype=grade1 surface=asphalt ones).

So with road that is both access road to single house and
forest neither highway=track nor highway=service service=driveway
really matches.

Dec 13, 2020, 11:44 by talk-gb@openstreetmap.org:

> IMHO, if it leads on to another road, track, etc. it is not a "driveway", but 
> could be a track, a bridleway, a service road, or something else.
>
> The Wiki says that a driveway is (with my bold for emphasis), 
>
> " ... a minor service road leading to a residential or business property. It 
> typically branches from a bigger road and leads toward an entrance to a 
> specific destination (building, etc.). It may end at or pass the entrance, 
> but either way, it gets close to its destination. > It is rare for a driveway 
> to be the way to access another roadway (but see Pipestems below)."
>
> (pipestems allow a driveway to be shared between several properties)
>
> So if, in this case, it leads on to another way (e.g. a bridleway, or a 
> track), it is not a driveway.  Does this solve the problem?
>
> Regards,
> Peter
>
> Peter Neale
> t: 01908 309666 
> m: 07968 341930 
> skype: nealepb
>
>
> On Sunday, 13 December 2020, 10:25:46 GMT, Edward Bainton 
>  wrote:
>
>
> Sorry, I joined this thread late and I see the initial query was, How to 
> ensure tracks don't just pop up nowhere'. So driveway first then track 
> doesn't solve the problem.
>
> That makes me say track all the way, as someone else has said. The different 
> surfaces can be caught in the attributes.
>
> On Sun, 13 Dec 2020 at 10:08, Edward Bainton <> bainton@gmail.com> > 
> wrote:
>
>> >  >> https://85a.uk/noverton_farm_1280x800.jpg
>> >
>> > It seems daft to me that the mud gets rendered but not the hardcore. If
>> > I change the "driveway" to "track" that would be the dreaded tagging for
>> > the renderer would it not? Generally in this part of the world "track"
>> > means mud, rather than a roadway suitable for all vehicles.
>>
>> I don't know what part of the world you're in, but by my Fenland lights, I'd 
>> probably call that a track, not a driveway - certainly once it passes the 
>> farm buildings (since I see a driveway as implying car-worthy access to a 
>> building). 
>>
>> Would that solve it? Driveway as far as the farm and then track?
>>
>> I'm going to risk blasphemy and suggest that tagging for the renderer is 
>> what we all do, all day (or why map?). The problem imo is "fudging it for 
>> the renderer", or "outright lying for the renderer". In this case, I'd say 
>> track is a valid choice - I think even for the whole length, if by 
>> "driveway" we infer something, short, tidy, and suburban.
>>
>> But I'm still a spring chicken round here, relatively speaking, and I await 
>> correction by my olders.
>>
>> On Sun, 13 Dec 2020 at 09:09, Nick Whitelegg via Talk-GB <>> 
>> talk-gb@openstreetmap.org>> > wrote:
>>
>>> >Getting back to this case, this is the farm drive. Beyond the
>>>  >>> >cattle-grid the public bridleway continues left through the farm
>>>  >>> >buildings, and the surface deteriorates to the usual farm mud:
>>>  
>>>  >>>  >>>   https://85a.uk/noverton_farm_1280x800.jpg
>>>
>>>
>>> Apologies for going off topic, but I knew that name (Noverton Farm) sounded 
>>> familiar.
>>>
>>> A quick check of where it is would explain why. In 1998 I did a  long 
>>> distance walk from Sussex to the Peak District, following ordinary 
>>> footpaths (planned using OS maps) and went through this area, the Teme 
>>> Valley. It was very nice >>> but>>> ​ the footpaths were in an appaling 
>>> state of disrepair, I remember on several occasions that day having to 
>>> scramble through dense shrub cover and attempt to negotiate barbed-wire 
>>> fences. I seem to recall Noverton Farm as being the site of some 
>>> particularly badly-maintained footpaths.
>>>
>>> As an aside this walk is what indirectly got me into OSM. I wanted to 
>>> illustrate the walk on the internet but OS licensing did not permit it, 
>>> which is how I started Freemap and then later got involved with OSM. I 
>>> still haven't illustrated this walk incidentally, but...
>>>
>>> Would be interested to find out if the area has improved since..
>>>
>>> Nick
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> From:>>>  Martin Wynne <>>> mar...@templot.com>>> >
>>>  >>> Sent:>>>  12 December 2020 14:30
>>>  >>> To:>>>  >>> talk-gb@openstreetmap.org>>>  <>>> 
>>> talk-gb@openstreetmap.org>>> >
>>>  >>> Subject:>>>  Re: [Talk-GB] driveway-becomes-track>>>  >>>  
>>>
>>> On 12/12/2020 13:15, Andy Townsend wrote:
>>>  
>>>  > 
>>>  > Ultimately, if "something needs doing", "someone" will need to do it. 
>>>  > Perhaps that someone is you?
>>>  
>>>  Hi Andy,
>>>  
>>>  Yes that someone could be me. I have a server 

Re: [Talk-GB] driveway-becomes-track

[Nick]

Seems to me that apart from the tagging, the issue highlighted here is 
with how the general public cab easily use OSM? Going to the OSM map, 
the layers on offer are Standard, Cycle Map (which does show the 
driveway connected) etc. but if a user wants a more specific use this is 
not easy to find. To my mind this is where more options from the 
worldwide map fail to deliver and is a bigger issue that can be resolved 
by understanding the 'customer' journey better?


On 13/12/2020 10:28, Nick Allen wrote:

Hi,

I tend to think of tagging more in terms of 'who will use this?' I 
know my local area extremely well, so I map it as best I can using 
tags that will make sense to anyone visiting the area. When I'm away 
from home I use OSM extensively to find things, and hope that the 
local mappers are using a universal scheme so that it will work for me.


I've travelled on roads in Portugal, Spain an parts of Africa which 
dont have a surface such as tarmac (tarmacadam / asphalt) or concrete, 
but instead have been built with a top coating similar to clay, which 
is compressed and then smoothed using a grader. Particularly in 
Portugal, at the time I drove on them, these 'unsurfaced' roads were 
so good that they were better than the (at that time) M25 which was 
full of pot-holes and difficult to drive safely on.


Although https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Highways 
 is the obvious choice 
to look at, I actually find that 
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Highway_Tag_Africa 
 explains it 
better.


Regards & Happy Mapping / Surveying

Nick
(Tallguy)

On Sun, 2020-12-13 at 10:08 +, Edward Bainton wrote:
>  https://85a.uk/noverton_farm_1280x800.jpg 


>
> It seems daft to me that the mud gets rendered but not the hardcore. If
> I change the "driveway" to "track" that would be the dreaded tagging for
> the renderer would it not? Generally in this part of the world "track"
> means mud, rather than a roadway suitable for all vehicles.

I don't know what part of the world you're in, but by my Fenland 
lights, I'd probably call that a track, not a driveway - certainly 
once it passes the farm buildings (since I see a driveway as implying 
car-worthy access to a building).


Would that solve it? Driveway as far as the farm and then track?

I'm going to risk blasphemy and suggest that tagging for the renderer 
is what we all do, all day (or why map?). The problem imo is "fudging 
it for the renderer", or "outright lying for the renderer". In this 
case, I'd say track is a valid choice - I think even for the whole 
length, if by "driveway" we infer something, short, tidy, and suburban.


But I'm still a spring chicken round here, relatively speaking, and I 
await correction by my olders.


On Sun, 13 Dec 2020 at 09:09, Nick Whitelegg via Talk-GB 
mailto:talk-gb@openstreetmap.org>> wrote:

>Getting back to this case, this is the farm drive. Beyond the
>cattle-grid the public bridleway continues left through the farm
>buildings, and the surface deteriorates to the usual farm mud:

 >https://85a.uk/noverton_farm_1280x800.jpg 




Apologies for going off topic, but I knew that name (Noverton Farm) 
sounded familiar.


A quick check of where it is would explain why. In 1998 I did a  
long distance walk from Sussex to the Peak District, following 
ordinary footpaths (planned using OS maps) and went through this 
area, the Teme Valley. It was very nice *but* the footpaths were in 
an appaling state of disrepair, I remember on several occasions that 
day having to scramble through dense shrub cover and attempt to 
negotiate barbed-wire fences. I seem to recall Noverton Farm as 
being the site of some particularly badly-maintained footpaths.


As an aside this walk is what indirectly got me into OSM. I wanted 
to illustrate the walk on the internet but OS licensing did not 
permit it, which is how I started Freemap and then later got 
involved with OSM. I still haven't illustrated this walk 
incidentally, but...


Would be interested to find out if the area has improved since..

Nick



*From:* Martin Wynne mailto:mar...@templot.com>>
*Sent:* 12 December 2020 14:30
*To:* talk-gb@openstreetmap.org  
mailto:talk-gb@openstreetmap.org>>

*Subject:* Re: [Talk-GB] driveway-becomes-track
On 12/12/2020 13:15, Andy Townsend wrote:

>
> Ultimately, if "something needs doing", "someone" will need to do it.
> Perhaps that someone is you?

Hi Andy,

Yes that someone could be me. I have a server (located in Columbus,
Ohio) on which I am using only a fraction of the available memory space
and bandwidth. I have been thinking of making better use of it, 
possibly

by hosting something from OSM.


 >  I'd suggest setting up a copy of the
 > 

Re: [Talk-GB] driveway-becomes-track

[Nick Whitelegg via Talk-GB]

Hi everyone,

I notice I'm being CCed in quite a bit here.

Just to make it clear, there are at least two "Nick"s on the thread. I just 
made the comment about Noverton Farm - it's another Nick who has made most of 
the contributions.

It's an interesting thread but just want to make sure that I am not being 
attributed to posts I didn't make.

Thanks,
Nick



From: Peter Neale 
Sent: 13 December 2020 10:44
To: Nick Whitelegg ; Edward Bainton 

Cc: talk-gb@openstreetmap.org 
Subject: Re: [Talk-GB] driveway-becomes-track

IMHO, if it leads on to another road, track, etc. it is not a "driveway", but 
could be a track, a bridleway, a service road, or something else.

The Wiki says that a driveway is (with my bold for emphasis),

" ... a minor service road leading to a residential or business property. It 
typically branches from a bigger road and leads toward an entrance to a 
specific destination (building, etc.). It may end at or pass the entrance, but 
either way, it gets close to its destination. It is rare for a driveway to be 
the way to access another roadway (but see Pipestems below)."

(pipestems allow a driveway to be shared between several properties)

So if, in this case, it leads on to another way (e.g. a bridleway, or a track), 
it is not a driveway.  Does this solve the problem?

Regards,
Peter

Peter Neale
t: 01908 309666
m: 07968 341930
skype: nealepb


On Sunday, 13 December 2020, 10:25:46 GMT, Edward Bainton 
 wrote:


Sorry, I joined this thread late and I see the initial query was, How to ensure 
tracks don't just pop up nowhere'. So driveway first then track doesn't solve 
the problem.

That makes me say track all the way, as someone else has said. The different 
surfaces can be caught in the attributes.

On Sun, 13 Dec 2020 at 10:08, Edward Bainton 
mailto:bainton@gmail.com>> wrote:
>  https://85a.uk/noverton_farm_1280x800.jpg
>
> It seems daft to me that the mud gets rendered but not the hardcore. If
> I change the "driveway" to "track" that would be the dreaded tagging for
> the renderer would it not? Generally in this part of the world "track"
> means mud, rather than a roadway suitable for all vehicles.

I don't know what part of the world you're in, but by my Fenland lights, I'd 
probably call that a track, not a driveway - certainly once it passes the farm 
buildings (since I see a driveway as implying car-worthy access to a building).

Would that solve it? Driveway as far as the farm and then track?

I'm going to risk blasphemy and suggest that tagging for the renderer is what 
we all do, all day (or why map?). The problem imo is "fudging it for the 
renderer", or "outright lying for the renderer". In this case, I'd say track is 
a valid choice - I think even for the whole length, if by "driveway" we infer 
something, short, tidy, and suburban.

But I'm still a spring chicken round here, relatively speaking, and I await 
correction by my olders.

On Sun, 13 Dec 2020 at 09:09, Nick Whitelegg via Talk-GB 
mailto:talk-gb@openstreetmap.org>> wrote:
>Getting back to this case, this is the farm drive. Beyond the
>cattle-grid the public bridleway continues left through the farm
>buildings, and the surface deteriorates to the usual farm mud:

  >https://85a.uk/noverton_farm_1280x800.jpg


Apologies for going off topic, but I knew that name (Noverton Farm) sounded 
familiar.

A quick check of where it is would explain why. In 1998 I did a  long distance 
walk from Sussex to the Peak District, following ordinary footpaths (planned 
using OS maps) and went through this area, the Teme Valley. It was very nice 
but​ the footpaths were in an appaling state of disrepair, I remember on 
several occasions that day having to scramble through dense shrub cover and 
attempt to negotiate barbed-wire fences. I seem to recall Noverton Farm as 
being the site of some particularly badly-maintained footpaths.

As an aside this walk is what indirectly got me into OSM. I wanted to 
illustrate the walk on the internet but OS licensing did not permit it, which 
is how I started Freemap and then later got involved with OSM. I still haven't 
illustrated this walk incidentally, but...

Would be interested to find out if the area has improved since..

Nick



From: Martin Wynne mailto:mar...@templot.com>>
Sent: 12 December 2020 14:30
To: talk-gb@openstreetmap.org 
mailto:talk-gb@openstreetmap.org>>
Subject: Re: [Talk-GB] driveway-becomes-track

On 12/12/2020 13:15, Andy Townsend wrote:

>
> Ultimately, if "something needs doing", "someone" will need to do it.
> Perhaps that someone is you?

Hi Andy,

Yes that someone could be me. I have a server (located in Columbus,
Ohio) on which I am using only a fraction of the available memory space
and bandwidth. I have been thinking of making better use of it, possibly
by hosting something from OSM.


 >  I'd suggest setting up a copy of the
 > standard map rendering as 

Re: [OSM-talk-fr] changesets caresteouvert

[Vincent Bergeot]

Bonjour,

Le 13/12/2020 à 11:36, Georges Dutreix via Talk-fr a écrit :

Bonjour,

Je viens de m'apercevoir qu'OSMCha affiche toute une série de 
changesets "vides" pour l'utilisateur CaResteOuvert_visitor.

Est-ce vraiment normal ou est-ce un petit bug ?

ex : 
https://osmcha.org/?filters=%7B%22users%22%3A%5B%7B%22label%22%3A%22CaResteOuvert_visitor%22%2C%22value%22%3A%22CaResteOuvert_visitor%22%7D%5D%7D


Bon week-end à tous !


à priori c'est un petit bug, tu fais bien de le relever sur la liste, 
j'eusse pu le faire car ce bug est identifié ici 
https://github.com/caresteouvert/caresteouvert/issues/878.


Merci

--
Vincent Bergeot

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Re: [Talk-GB] driveway-becomes-track

[Peter Neale via Talk-GB]

IMHO, if it leads on to another road, track, etc. it is not a "driveway", but 
could be a track, a bridleway, a service road, or something else.
The Wiki says that a driveway is (with my bold for emphasis), 
" ... a minor service road leading to a residential or business property. It 
typically branches from a bigger road and leads toward an entrance to a 
specific destination (building, etc.). It may end at or pass the entrance, but 
either way, it gets close to its destination. It is rare for a driveway to be 
the way to access another roadway (but see Pipestems below)."
(pipestems allow a driveway to be shared between several properties)
So if, in this case, it leads on to another way (e.g. a bridleway, or a track), 
it is not a driveway.  Does this solve the problem?
Regards,Peter
 Peter Neale 
t: 01908 309666 
m: 07968 341930 
skype: nealepb 

On Sunday, 13 December 2020, 10:25:46 GMT, Edward Bainton 
 wrote:  
 
 Sorry, I joined this thread late and I see the initial query was, How to 
ensure tracks don't just pop up nowhere'. So driveway first then track doesn't 
solve the problem.
That makes me say track all the way, as someone else has said. The different 
surfaces can be caught in the attributes.
On Sun, 13 Dec 2020 at 10:08, Edward Bainton  wrote:

>  https://85a.uk/noverton_farm_1280x800.jpg
>
> It seems daft to me that the mud gets rendered but not the hardcore. If
> I change the "driveway" to "track" that would be the dreaded tagging for
> the renderer would it not? Generally in this part of the world "track"
> means mud, rather than a roadway suitable for all vehicles.

I don't know what part of the world you're in, but by my Fenland lights, I'd 
probably call that a track, not a driveway - certainly once it passes the farm 
buildings (since I see a driveway as implying car-worthy access to a building). 
Would that solve it? Driveway as far as the farm and then track?
I'm going to risk blasphemy and suggest that tagging for the renderer is what 
we all do, all day (or why map?). The problem imo is "fudging it for the 
renderer", or "outright lying for the renderer". In this case, I'd say track is 
a valid choice - I think even for the whole length, if by "driveway" we infer 
something, short, tidy, and suburban.
But I'm still a spring chicken round here, relatively speaking, and I await 
correction by my olders.
On Sun, 13 Dec 2020 at 09:09, Nick Whitelegg via Talk-GB 
 wrote:

>Getting back to this case, this is the farm drive. Beyond the
>cattle-grid the public bridleway continues left through the farm
>buildings, and the surface deteriorates to the usual farm mud:

  >https://85a.uk/noverton_farm_1280x800.jpg


Apologies for going off topic, but I knew that name (Noverton Farm) sounded 
familiar.
A quick check of where it is would explain why. In 1998 I did a  long distance 
walk from Sussex to the Peak District, following ordinary footpaths (planned 
using OS maps) and went through this area, the Teme Valley. It was very 
nicebut​ the footpaths were in an appaling state of disrepair, I remember on 
several occasions that day having to scramble through dense shrub cover and 
attempt to negotiate barbed-wire fences. I seem to recall Noverton Farm as 
being the site of some particularly badly-maintained footpaths.
As an aside this walk is what indirectly got me into OSM. I wanted to 
illustrate the walk on the internet but OS licensing did not permit it, which 
is how I started Freemap and then later got involved with OSM. I still haven't 
illustrated this walk incidentally, but...
Would be interested to find out if the area has improved since..
Nick



From: Martin Wynne 
Sent: 12 December 2020 14:30
To: talk-gb@openstreetmap.org 
Subject: Re: [Talk-GB] driveway-becomes-track On 12/12/2020 13:15, Andy 
Townsend wrote:

> 
> Ultimately, if "something needs doing", "someone" will need to do it. 
> Perhaps that someone is you?

Hi Andy,

Yes that someone could be me. I have a server (located in Columbus, 
Ohio) on which I am using only a fraction of the available memory space 
and bandwidth. I have been thinking of making better use of it, possibly 
by hosting something from OSM.


 >  I'd suggest setting up a copy of the
 > standard map rendering as per https://switch2osm.org/serving-tiles/
 > (just for Worcestershire would be fine) and start tinkering with the
 > logic that decides what sort of service road is what, such as
 > 
https://github.com/gravitystorm/openstreetmap-carto/blob/b10aef3866bacf387581b8fea4eec265010b0d14/project.mml#L475



Thanks. I have been looking at https://switch2osm.org/serving-tiles/ but
I have a lot to learn. I can do Windows programming, but on stuff for 
the web I'm only a dabbler. I looked at Mapnik and saw interfaces only 
for Python and C. If that had been Pascal, I would have dived in by now.

I will have another look and see where I might start. The idea of 
creating my own map does appeal to me.

Getting back to this case, this is the farm drive. 

[OSM-talk-fr] changesets caresteouvert

[Georges Dutreix via Talk-fr]

Bonjour,

Je viens de m'apercevoir qu'OSMCha affiche toute une série de changesets 
"vides" pour l'utilisateur CaResteOuvert_visitor.

Est-ce vraiment normal ou est-ce un petit bug ?

ex : 
https://osmcha.org/?filters=%7B%22users%22%3A%5B%7B%22label%22%3A%22CaResteOuvert_visitor%22%2C%22value%22%3A%22CaResteOuvert_visitor%22%7D%5D%7D


Bon week-end à tous !
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Re: [Talk-GB] driveway-becomes-track

[Edward Catmur via Talk-GB]

On Sun, 13 Dec 2020, 10:23 Edward Bainton,  wrote:

> Sorry, I joined this thread late and I see the initial query was, How to
> ensure tracks don't just pop up nowhere'. So driveway first then track
> doesn't solve the problem.
>
> That makes me say track all the way, as someone else has said. The
> different surfaces can be caught in the attributes.
>

If I understand correctly, the way is at once a service road, a track, a
bridleway and a driveway, and the problem is that tagging it
service=driveway makes data consumers categorise it as a driveway, which is
considered to be less important than a track or bridleway.

So why not tag it highway=service service=track driveway=yes? That should
allow data consumers to reach the correct category while preserving
information.


On Sun, 13 Dec 2020 at 10:08, Edward Bainton  wrote:
>
>> >  https://85a.uk/noverton_farm_1280x800.jpg
>> >
>> > It seems daft to me that the mud gets rendered but not the hardcore. If
>> > I change the "driveway" to "track" that would be the dreaded tagging for
>> > the renderer would it not? Generally in this part of the world "track"
>> > means mud, rather than a roadway suitable for all vehicles.
>>
>> I don't know what part of the world you're in, but by my Fenland lights,
>> I'd probably call that a track, not a driveway - certainly once it passes
>> the farm buildings (since I see a driveway as implying car-worthy access to
>> a building).
>>
>> Would that solve it? Driveway as far as the farm and then track?
>>
>> I'm going to risk blasphemy and suggest that tagging for the renderer is
>> what we all do, all day (or why map?). The problem imo is "fudging it for
>> the renderer", or "outright lying for the renderer". In this case, I'd say
>> track is a valid choice - I think even for the whole length, if by
>> "driveway" we infer something, short, tidy, and suburban.
>>
>> But I'm still a spring chicken round here, relatively speaking, and I
>> await correction by my olders.
>>
>> On Sun, 13 Dec 2020 at 09:09, Nick Whitelegg via Talk-GB <
>> talk-gb@openstreetmap.org> wrote:
>>
>>> >Getting back to this case, this is the farm drive. Beyond the
>>> >cattle-grid the public bridleway continues left through the farm
>>> >buildings, and the surface deteriorates to the usual farm mud:
>>>
>>>   >https://85a.uk/noverton_farm_1280x800.jpg
>>>
>>>
>>> Apologies for going off topic, but I knew that name (Noverton Farm)
>>> sounded familiar.
>>>
>>> A quick check of where it is would explain why. In 1998 I did a  long
>>> distance walk from Sussex to the Peak District, following ordinary
>>> footpaths (planned using OS maps) and went through this area, the Teme
>>> Valley. It was very nice *but*​ the footpaths were in an appaling state
>>> of disrepair, I remember on several occasions that day having to scramble
>>> through dense shrub cover and attempt to negotiate barbed-wire fences. I
>>> seem to recall Noverton Farm as being the site of some particularly
>>> badly-maintained footpaths.
>>>
>>> As an aside this walk is what indirectly got me into OSM. I wanted to
>>> illustrate the walk on the internet but OS licensing did not permit it,
>>> which is how I started Freemap and then later got involved with OSM. I
>>> still haven't illustrated this walk incidentally, but...
>>>
>>> Would be interested to find out if the area has improved since..
>>>
>>> Nick
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> *From:* Martin Wynne 
>>> *Sent:* 12 December 2020 14:30
>>> *To:* talk-gb@openstreetmap.org 
>>> *Subject:* Re: [Talk-GB] driveway-becomes-track
>>>
>>> On 12/12/2020 13:15, Andy Townsend wrote:
>>>
>>> >
>>> > Ultimately, if "something needs doing", "someone" will need to do it.
>>> > Perhaps that someone is you?
>>>
>>> Hi Andy,
>>>
>>> Yes that someone could be me. I have a server (located in Columbus,
>>> Ohio) on which I am using only a fraction of the available memory space
>>> and bandwidth. I have been thinking of making better use of it, possibly
>>> by hosting something from OSM.
>>>
>>>
>>>  >  I'd suggest setting up a copy of the
>>>  > standard map rendering as per https://switch2osm.org/serving-tiles/
>>>  > (just for Worcestershire would be fine) and start tinkering with the
>>>  > logic that decides what sort of service road is what, such as
>>>  >
>>>
>>> https://github.com/gravitystorm/openstreetmap-carto/blob/b10aef3866bacf387581b8fea4eec265010b0d14/project.mml#L475
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Thanks. I have been looking at https://switch2osm.org/serving-tiles/
>>> but
>>> I have a lot to learn. I can do Windows programming, but on stuff for
>>> the web I'm only a dabbler. I looked at Mapnik and saw interfaces only
>>> for Python and C. If that had been Pascal, I would have dived in by now.
>>>
>>> I will have another look and see where I might start. The idea of
>>> creating my own map does appeal to me.
>>>
>>> Getting back to this case, this is the farm drive. Beyond the
>>> cattle-grid the public bridleway continues left through 

Re: [Talk-GB] driveway-becomes-track

[Nick Allen]

Hi,
I tend to think of tagging more in terms of 'who will use this?' I know
my local area extremely well, so I map it as best I can using tags that
will make sense to anyone visiting the area. When I'm away from home I
use OSM extensively to find things, and hope that the local mappers are
using a universal scheme so that it will work for me. 
I've travelled on roads in Portugal, Spain an parts of Africa which
dont have a surface such as tarmac (tarmacadam / asphalt) or concrete,
but instead have been built with a top coating similar to clay, which
is compressed and then smoothed using a grader. Particularly in
Portugal, at the time I drove on them, these 'unsurfaced' roads were so
good that they were better than the (at that time) M25 which was full
of pot-holes and difficult to drive safely on.
Although https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Highways is the obvious
choice to look at, I actually find that 
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Highway_Tag_Africa explains it
better.
Regards & Happy Mapping / Surveying
Nick(Tallguy)
On Sun, 2020-12-13 at 10:08 +, Edward Bainton wrote:
> >  https://85a.uk/noverton_farm_1280x800.jpg
> >
> > It seems daft to me that the mud gets rendered but not the
> hardcore. If
> > I change the "driveway" to "track" that would be the dreaded
> tagging for
> > the renderer would it not? Generally in this part of the world
> "track"
> > means mud, rather than a roadway suitable for all vehicles.
> 
> 
> I don't know what part of the world you're in, but by my Fenland
> lights, I'd probably call that a track, not a driveway - certainly
> once it passes the farm buildings (since I see a driveway as implying
> car-worthy access to a building). 
> 
> 
> Would that solve it? Driveway as far as the farm and then track?
> 
> 
> I'm going to risk blasphemy and suggest that tagging for the renderer
> is what we all do, all day (or why map?). The problem imo is "fudging
> it for the renderer", or "outright lying for the renderer". In this
> case, I'd say track is a valid choice - I think even for the whole
> length, if by "driveway" we infer something, short, tidy, and
> suburban.
> 
> 
> But I'm still a spring chicken round here, relatively speaking, and I
> await correction by my olders.
> 
> On Sun, 13 Dec 2020 at 09:09, Nick Whitelegg via Talk-GB <
> talk-gb@openstreetmap.org> wrote:
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > >Getting back to this
> >  case, this is the farm drive. Beyond the
> > 
> > >cattle-grid the public
> >  bridleway continues left through the farm
> > 
> > >buildings, and the surface
> >  deteriorates to the usual farm mud:
> > 
> > 
> > 
> >   >https://85a.uk/noverton_farm_1280x800.jpg
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > Apologies for going off topic, but I knew that name (Noverton Farm)
> > sounded familiar.
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > A quick check of where it is would explain why. In 1998 I did a 
> > long distance walk from Sussex to the Peak District, following
> > ordinary footpaths (planned using OS maps) and went through this
> > area, the Teme Valley. It was very nice
> > but the footpaths were in an appaling state of disrepair, I
> > remember on several occasions that day having to scramble through
> > dense shrub cover and attempt to negotiate barbed-wire fences. I
> > seem to recall Noverton Farm as being the site of some particularly
> >  badly-maintained footpaths.
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > As an aside this walk is what indirectly got me into OSM. I wanted
> > to illustrate the walk on the internet but OS licensing did not
> > permit it, which is how I started Freemap and then later got
> > involved with OSM. I still haven't illustrated this walk
> > incidentally,
> >  but...
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > Would be interested to find out if the area has improved since..
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > Nick
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > From: Martin Wynne 
> > 
> > Sent: 12 December 2020 14:30
> > 
> > To: talk-gb@openstreetmap.org 
> > 
> > Subject: Re: [Talk-GB] driveway-becomes-track
> >  
> > 
> > 
> > On 12/12/2020 13:15, Andy Townsend wrote:
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > > 
> > 
> > > Ultimately, if "something needs doing", "someone" will need to do
> > it. 
> > 
> > > Perhaps that someone is you?
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > Hi Andy,
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > Yes that someone could be me. I have a server (located in
> > Columbus, 
> > 
> > Ohio) on which I am using only a fraction of the available memory
> > space 
> > 
> > and bandwidth. I have been thinking of making better use of it,
> > possibly 
> > 
> > by hosting something from OSM.
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> >  >  I'd suggest setting up a copy of the
> > 
> >  > standard map rendering as per 
> > https://switch2osm.org/serving-tiles/
> > 
> >  > (just for Worcestershire would be fine) and start tinkering with
> > the
> > 
> >  > logic that decides what sort of service road is what, such as
> > 
> >  > 
> > 
> > 

Re: [Talk-GB] driveway-becomes-track

[Edward Bainton]

Sorry, I joined this thread late and I see the initial query was, How to
ensure tracks don't just pop up nowhere'. So driveway first then track
doesn't solve the problem.

That makes me say track all the way, as someone else has said. The
different surfaces can be caught in the attributes.

On Sun, 13 Dec 2020 at 10:08, Edward Bainton  wrote:

> >  https://85a.uk/noverton_farm_1280x800.jpg
> >
> > It seems daft to me that the mud gets rendered but not the hardcore. If
> > I change the "driveway" to "track" that would be the dreaded tagging for
> > the renderer would it not? Generally in this part of the world "track"
> > means mud, rather than a roadway suitable for all vehicles.
>
> I don't know what part of the world you're in, but by my Fenland lights,
> I'd probably call that a track, not a driveway - certainly once it passes
> the farm buildings (since I see a driveway as implying car-worthy access to
> a building).
>
> Would that solve it? Driveway as far as the farm and then track?
>
> I'm going to risk blasphemy and suggest that tagging for the renderer is
> what we all do, all day (or why map?). The problem imo is "fudging it for
> the renderer", or "outright lying for the renderer". In this case, I'd say
> track is a valid choice - I think even for the whole length, if by
> "driveway" we infer something, short, tidy, and suburban.
>
> But I'm still a spring chicken round here, relatively speaking, and I
> await correction by my olders.
>
> On Sun, 13 Dec 2020 at 09:09, Nick Whitelegg via Talk-GB <
> talk-gb@openstreetmap.org> wrote:
>
>> >Getting back to this case, this is the farm drive. Beyond the
>> >cattle-grid the public bridleway continues left through the farm
>> >buildings, and the surface deteriorates to the usual farm mud:
>>
>>   >https://85a.uk/noverton_farm_1280x800.jpg
>>
>>
>> Apologies for going off topic, but I knew that name (Noverton Farm)
>> sounded familiar.
>>
>> A quick check of where it is would explain why. In 1998 I did a  long
>> distance walk from Sussex to the Peak District, following ordinary
>> footpaths (planned using OS maps) and went through this area, the Teme
>> Valley. It was very nice *but*​ the footpaths were in an appaling state
>> of disrepair, I remember on several occasions that day having to scramble
>> through dense shrub cover and attempt to negotiate barbed-wire fences. I
>> seem to recall Noverton Farm as being the site of some particularly
>> badly-maintained footpaths.
>>
>> As an aside this walk is what indirectly got me into OSM. I wanted to
>> illustrate the walk on the internet but OS licensing did not permit it,
>> which is how I started Freemap and then later got involved with OSM. I
>> still haven't illustrated this walk incidentally, but...
>>
>> Would be interested to find out if the area has improved since..
>>
>> Nick
>>
>>
>> --
>> *From:* Martin Wynne 
>> *Sent:* 12 December 2020 14:30
>> *To:* talk-gb@openstreetmap.org 
>> *Subject:* Re: [Talk-GB] driveway-becomes-track
>>
>> On 12/12/2020 13:15, Andy Townsend wrote:
>>
>> >
>> > Ultimately, if "something needs doing", "someone" will need to do it.
>> > Perhaps that someone is you?
>>
>> Hi Andy,
>>
>> Yes that someone could be me. I have a server (located in Columbus,
>> Ohio) on which I am using only a fraction of the available memory space
>> and bandwidth. I have been thinking of making better use of it, possibly
>> by hosting something from OSM.
>>
>>
>>  >  I'd suggest setting up a copy of the
>>  > standard map rendering as per https://switch2osm.org/serving-tiles/
>>  > (just for Worcestershire would be fine) and start tinkering with the
>>  > logic that decides what sort of service road is what, such as
>>  >
>>
>> https://github.com/gravitystorm/openstreetmap-carto/blob/b10aef3866bacf387581b8fea4eec265010b0d14/project.mml#L475
>>
>>
>>
>> Thanks. I have been looking at https://switch2osm.org/serving-tiles/ but
>> I have a lot to learn. I can do Windows programming, but on stuff for
>> the web I'm only a dabbler. I looked at Mapnik and saw interfaces only
>> for Python and C. If that had been Pascal, I would have dived in by now.
>>
>> I will have another look and see where I might start. The idea of
>> creating my own map does appeal to me.
>>
>> Getting back to this case, this is the farm drive. Beyond the
>> cattle-grid the public bridleway continues left through the farm
>> buildings, and the surface deteriorates to the usual farm mud:
>>
>>   https://85a.uk/noverton_farm_1280x800.jpg
>>
>> It seems daft to me that the mud gets rendered but not the hardcore. If
>> I change the "driveway" to "track" that would be the dreaded tagging for
>> the renderer would it not? Generally in this part of the world "track"
>> means mud, rather than a roadway suitable for all vehicles.
>>
>> This is where the farm drive leaves the road - this is definitely more
>> than a "track" - note the double gates:
>>
>>   https://goo.gl/maps/XEs4XKs5UUHNBt8E8
>>
>> 

Re: [Talk-GB] driveway-becomes-track

[Edward Bainton]

>  https://85a.uk/noverton_farm_1280x800.jpg
>
> It seems daft to me that the mud gets rendered but not the hardcore. If
> I change the "driveway" to "track" that would be the dreaded tagging for
> the renderer would it not? Generally in this part of the world "track"
> means mud, rather than a roadway suitable for all vehicles.

I don't know what part of the world you're in, but by my Fenland lights,
I'd probably call that a track, not a driveway - certainly once it passes
the farm buildings (since I see a driveway as implying car-worthy access to
a building).

Would that solve it? Driveway as far as the farm and then track?

I'm going to risk blasphemy and suggest that tagging for the renderer is
what we all do, all day (or why map?). The problem imo is "fudging it for
the renderer", or "outright lying for the renderer". In this case, I'd say
track is a valid choice - I think even for the whole length, if by
"driveway" we infer something, short, tidy, and suburban.

But I'm still a spring chicken round here, relatively speaking, and I await
correction by my olders.

On Sun, 13 Dec 2020 at 09:09, Nick Whitelegg via Talk-GB <
talk-gb@openstreetmap.org> wrote:

> >Getting back to this case, this is the farm drive. Beyond the
> >cattle-grid the public bridleway continues left through the farm
> >buildings, and the surface deteriorates to the usual farm mud:
>
>   >https://85a.uk/noverton_farm_1280x800.jpg
>
>
> Apologies for going off topic, but I knew that name (Noverton Farm)
> sounded familiar.
>
> A quick check of where it is would explain why. In 1998 I did a  long
> distance walk from Sussex to the Peak District, following ordinary
> footpaths (planned using OS maps) and went through this area, the Teme
> Valley. It was very nice *but*​ the footpaths were in an appaling state
> of disrepair, I remember on several occasions that day having to scramble
> through dense shrub cover and attempt to negotiate barbed-wire fences. I
> seem to recall Noverton Farm as being the site of some particularly
> badly-maintained footpaths.
>
> As an aside this walk is what indirectly got me into OSM. I wanted to
> illustrate the walk on the internet but OS licensing did not permit it,
> which is how I started Freemap and then later got involved with OSM. I
> still haven't illustrated this walk incidentally, but...
>
> Would be interested to find out if the area has improved since..
>
> Nick
>
>
> --
> *From:* Martin Wynne 
> *Sent:* 12 December 2020 14:30
> *To:* talk-gb@openstreetmap.org 
> *Subject:* Re: [Talk-GB] driveway-becomes-track
>
> On 12/12/2020 13:15, Andy Townsend wrote:
>
> >
> > Ultimately, if "something needs doing", "someone" will need to do it.
> > Perhaps that someone is you?
>
> Hi Andy,
>
> Yes that someone could be me. I have a server (located in Columbus,
> Ohio) on which I am using only a fraction of the available memory space
> and bandwidth. I have been thinking of making better use of it, possibly
> by hosting something from OSM.
>
>
>  >  I'd suggest setting up a copy of the
>  > standard map rendering as per https://switch2osm.org/serving-tiles/
>  > (just for Worcestershire would be fine) and start tinkering with the
>  > logic that decides what sort of service road is what, such as
>  >
>
> https://github.com/gravitystorm/openstreetmap-carto/blob/b10aef3866bacf387581b8fea4eec265010b0d14/project.mml#L475
>
>
>
> Thanks. I have been looking at https://switch2osm.org/serving-tiles/ but
> I have a lot to learn. I can do Windows programming, but on stuff for
> the web I'm only a dabbler. I looked at Mapnik and saw interfaces only
> for Python and C. If that had been Pascal, I would have dived in by now.
>
> I will have another look and see where I might start. The idea of
> creating my own map does appeal to me.
>
> Getting back to this case, this is the farm drive. Beyond the
> cattle-grid the public bridleway continues left through the farm
> buildings, and the surface deteriorates to the usual farm mud:
>
>   https://85a.uk/noverton_farm_1280x800.jpg
>
> It seems daft to me that the mud gets rendered but not the hardcore. If
> I change the "driveway" to "track" that would be the dreaded tagging for
> the renderer would it not? Generally in this part of the world "track"
> means mud, rather than a roadway suitable for all vehicles.
>
> This is where the farm drive leaves the road - this is definitely more
> than a "track" - note the double gates:
>
>   https://goo.gl/maps/XEs4XKs5UUHNBt8E8
>
> cheers,
>
> Martin.
>
> ___
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[Talk-GB] MapThePaths downtime next weekend Dec 19/20

[Nick Whitelegg via Talk-GB]

Hello everyone,

A warning that the MapThePaths site (www.mapthepaths.org.uk) and also perhaps 
Freemap will be unavailable next weekend, Dec 19/20, and possibly into the 
early part of next week.

The reason is that I am updating the OSM data on the server next weekend.

I have decided to create a smaller Hetzner server for my UK-specific OSM 
projects, notably MapThePaths, and leave the current server to focus on the 
Europe-wide (and potentially worldwide, but my funds don't stretch to this) 
Hikar and OpenTrailView projects.

This new server may, dependent on time and interest, also be used for 
experimenting with creating an OSM UK walkers' map. I will be willing to give 
shell accounts to trusted members of the OSM UK community (people I know 
personally or mailing list regulars). More on that later.

Nick



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Re: [OSM-legal-talk] Brexit & EU database rights

[Edward Bainton]

Thank you for the link, now read. All you say on substantial changes makes
sense.

So if we move the database into the EU, are we confident it would be all be
protected under those terms? Does the hiatus from 1 Jan 2021 cause any
difficulties? I'm reading the bit that says protection runs from the date
of completion of the database - which is either already done, or never to
be achieved. Either way I'm struggling to be sure that a database imported
into the EU (perhaps considered complete on the day of import?) would have
the protection.

Or do we need two databases - the UK-based one that is protected under the
legacy agreement (until the UK Parliament decides otherwise, I suppose),
and the new EU one, and the servers work off them in tandem?

On Thu, 10 Dec 2020 at 23:18, Simon Poole  wrote:

> To answer the questions caveat there is no relevant court decisions that I
> know of, so this is all likely untested: insubstantial changes to a
> database do not create a new one, but substantial changes do. Where the
> line is drawn, or better where the OSMF draws the line, is currently open.
> See article 10
> https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/?uri=celex%3A31996L0009
>
> Simon
> Am 10.12.2020 um 22:11 schrieb Edward Bainton:
>
> A pleasure meeting you all at LWG this evening.
>
> I saw Brexit in the minutes for September
> "At the end of year we won't be losing database rights immediately."
>
> General guidance I've seen appears to say:
> - database rights accrued before 2021-01-01 persist (as I've seen
> discussed in minutes)
> - database rights accrued from 2021-01-01 will exist only in the UK (if at
> all: I can't see any enabling legislation after a quick look, and this may
> have gone into the Govt's "later" tray - so copyright may be the only
> protection).
>
> The last point suggests to me that any edits made after 2020-01-01 will
> have less protection than so far has been the case.
>
> Is that your understanding? Or is the database as a whole protected
> because the architecture has been built, and subsequent edits are protected
> modifications of an already-protected creation?
>
> ___
> legal-talk mailing 
> listlegal-talk@openstreetmap.orghttps://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk
>
> ___
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> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk
>
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Re: [Talk-GB] driveway-becomes-track

[Nick Whitelegg via Talk-GB]

>Getting back to this case, this is the farm drive. Beyond the
>cattle-grid the public bridleway continues left through the farm
>buildings, and the surface deteriorates to the usual farm mud:

  >https://85a.uk/noverton_farm_1280x800.jpg


Apologies for going off topic, but I knew that name (Noverton Farm) sounded 
familiar.

A quick check of where it is would explain why. In 1998 I did a  long distance 
walk from Sussex to the Peak District, following ordinary footpaths (planned 
using OS maps) and went through this area, the Teme Valley. It was very nice 
but​ the footpaths were in an appaling state of disrepair, I remember on 
several occasions that day having to scramble through dense shrub cover and 
attempt to negotiate barbed-wire fences. I seem to recall Noverton Farm as 
being the site of some particularly badly-maintained footpaths.

As an aside this walk is what indirectly got me into OSM. I wanted to 
illustrate the walk on the internet but OS licensing did not permit it, which 
is how I started Freemap and then later got involved with OSM. I still haven't 
illustrated this walk incidentally, but...

Would be interested to find out if the area has improved since..

Nick



From: Martin Wynne 
Sent: 12 December 2020 14:30
To: talk-gb@openstreetmap.org 
Subject: Re: [Talk-GB] driveway-becomes-track

On 12/12/2020 13:15, Andy Townsend wrote:

>
> Ultimately, if "something needs doing", "someone" will need to do it.
> Perhaps that someone is you?

Hi Andy,

Yes that someone could be me. I have a server (located in Columbus,
Ohio) on which I am using only a fraction of the available memory space
and bandwidth. I have been thinking of making better use of it, possibly
by hosting something from OSM.


 >  I'd suggest setting up a copy of the
 > standard map rendering as per https://switch2osm.org/serving-tiles/
 > (just for Worcestershire would be fine) and start tinkering with the
 > logic that decides what sort of service road is what, such as
 >
https://github.com/gravitystorm/openstreetmap-carto/blob/b10aef3866bacf387581b8fea4eec265010b0d14/project.mml#L475



Thanks. I have been looking at https://switch2osm.org/serving-tiles/ but
I have a lot to learn. I can do Windows programming, but on stuff for
the web I'm only a dabbler. I looked at Mapnik and saw interfaces only
for Python and C. If that had been Pascal, I would have dived in by now.

I will have another look and see where I might start. The idea of
creating my own map does appeal to me.

Getting back to this case, this is the farm drive. Beyond the
cattle-grid the public bridleway continues left through the farm
buildings, and the surface deteriorates to the usual farm mud:

  https://85a.uk/noverton_farm_1280x800.jpg

It seems daft to me that the mud gets rendered but not the hardcore. If
I change the "driveway" to "track" that would be the dreaded tagging for
the renderer would it not? Generally in this part of the world "track"
means mud, rather than a roadway suitable for all vehicles.

This is where the farm drive leaves the road - this is definitely more
than a "track" - note the double gates:

  https://goo.gl/maps/XEs4XKs5UUHNBt8E8

cheers,

Martin.

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Re: [Talk-it] Creazione di un Diversity and Inclusion Group in OSM Italia

[Francesco Ansanelli]

Ciao,

sono in parte d'accordo con Martin...
Seguo da circa 2 anni talk-it e non mi sembra di ricordare episodi di
discriminazione (in particolare di genere). Quindi auspico di capire se si
tratta di un'attività "di contorno" (non vorrei essere frainteso ma CoC,
linguaggio inclusivo, gruppi LGBTQ, ecc.. sono stati una moda tra i
progetti open source nell'ultimo anno) oppure se ci sono state davvero
frasi di odio per l'appartenenza a minoranze?
Credo di parlare a nome di tutti, se dico che è benvenuto/a nella comunità
chiunque voglia farne parte e lo/la invito a condividere anche qui le sue
esperienze.
Vi auguro una buona domenica
Francesco

Il ven 11 dic 2020, 14:31 Martin Koppenhoefer  ha
scritto:

> Am Fr., 11. Dez. 2020 um 14:09 Uhr schrieb Anisa Kuci <
> anisa.k...@wikimedia.it>:
>
>> Ciao a tutte e tutti,
>>
>> abbiamo appena creato un gruppo di (attualmente) 15 donne italiane che
>> contribuiscono a OSM ma, dopo aver discusso tra noi, abbiamo pensato che
>> sarebbe bello se questo gruppo non fosse solo al femminile ma aperto a
>> tutte le persone che sentono di far parte di gruppi sotto-rappresentati
>> all'interno della nostra comunità.
>>
>> Stiamo organizzando per il 2021 una serie di incontri in collaborazione
>> con altre comunità (soprattutto Diversity and Inclusion groups) del
>> mondo FLOSS, con l'idea di creare una rete per condividere conoscenze ed
>> esperienze.
>> L'obiettivo che ci poniamo è capire cosa si può fare per avere comunità
>> più inclusiva e come poter lavorare insieme per avere spazi più
>> accoglienti per tutti.
>> Al momento abbiamo fatto due incontri online per iniziare a programmare
>> il progetto e il prossimo è previsto prima di Natale (non abbiamo ancora
>> definito la data)
>> Ci piacerebbe che partecipassero, soprattutto in questa fase
>> organizzativa, altre persone per dare anche le loro opinioni.
>> Chi fosse interessato/a può contattarmi alla mail:
>> anisa.k...@wikimedia.it
>>
>> Chiedo gentilmente a tutti/e coloro che vogliono sostenere questa
>> iniziativa di condividere questa mail nelle mailing list che ritenete
>> utili.
>>
>> Grazie mille e buona giornata,
>> Anisa
>
>
>
>
> Grazie Anisa,
>
> sarei interessato ad iscrivermi a questo nuovo gruppo.
>
> Questa notizia mi rende da una parte felice che ci sono persone che hanno
> a cuore l'inclusione e la diversità, e dall'altra parte un po' triste
> perché significa apparentemente si sentono escluse dai discorsi qui su
> talk-it, oppure al meno pensono che non si potrebbe parlare di inclusione e
> diversità su questa lista.
>
> grazie ancora,
> Martin
>
>
> PS: Spero sinceramente che questa iniziativa non farà la fine del gruppo
> internazionale "diversity", che ho deciso di lasciare anni fa, dopo che era
> diventato campo di battaglie disgustose, scambi mai visti così violenti nel
> contesto di OSM, anzi, direi in assoluto, tra due attivist@ lottando per
> la inclusione e la diversità...
>
>
>
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