Re: [Talk-us] interesting crossing of borders between CA and AZ

[Clifford Snow]

The boundary is good, but will be better once you incorporate the existing
boundary between California and Arizona (and some others).

Your next step will be to merge the duplicate boundary area, where the
tribe and state boundaries are the same. Do that by splitting the
reservation boundary where they coincide with the other boundaries. split
border boundary at the same spot. In the JOSM relation editor for the
reservation, add the existing state boundary. If correct, the boundary
should be a closed way.

Best,
Clifford

On Mon, Nov 9, 2020 at 5:32 PM Ray Kiddy  wrote:

>
> On 11/9/20 3:07 PM, Clifford Snow wrote:
>
> Ray,
> Thanks for taking on the task of fixing the tribal boundaries. From
> personal experience of having done a number of these, it's hard work and
> easy to make errors. But don't let that discourage you. It feels great once
> you're complete.
>
> One note - as far as I know, tribal boundaries should just be
> boundary=aboriginal_lands. Admin levels are designed for areas tagged
> boundary=administrative. Because tribal lands/reservations have a unique
> standings they should just be tagged boundary=aboriginal_lands.
>
> Feel free to contact me directly if you need help.
>
> Clifford
>
> When I was creating the relation, I found the "boundary=aboriginal_lands"
> thing.
>
> Give a shout if you see anything wrong with this.
>
> http://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/11867393
>
> And I have not yet, of course, added the bit that will cross into
> California.
>
> cheers - ray
>
>
> On Mon, Nov 9, 2020 at 2:03 PM Ray Kiddy  wrote:
>
>> Hello -
>>
>> I am seeing an interesting editing task at the eastern edge of Riverside
>> County in California. As of now, I am not expert enough in JOSM to do
>> it, but I will, at some point, be able to do it and I will do it then.
>> Unless someone else wants it.
>>
>> I am starting to add lines to define the city boundaries of Blythe, CA.
>> Almost nothing is there in OSM.
>>
>> But the interesting bit is at the nothern part of the eastern edge of
>> the city boundary. This line in the Colorado River actually separates
>> the states of California and Arizona and is the eastern boarder of
>> Blythe but it is also the western border of the Colorado River Indian
>> Tribes Reservation (https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/702934460).
>>
>> The issue is that the southern border of the reservation actually
>> crosses the CA-AZ state line and this is not seen in OSM. It has a "toe"
>> sort of shape, facing west. See the eastern edge of the map below.
>>
>> https://gis.countyofriverside.us/Html5Viewer/?viewer=MMC_Public
>>
>> So, what I think I need to do is:
>>
>> 1) Change the reservation from a way into a relation with the proper
>> admin level. (Done)
>>
>> 1a) Fix the southern border of the reservation, which should cover the
>> road there. The reservation does not include the road in OSM.
>>
>> 2) Split the way that currently cuts off the toe, but I need to not muck
>> up the CA-AZ border.
>>
>> 3) Add the lines for the toe. This also involves moving the northern
>> edge of the Palo Verde Ecological Reserve, whose northern edge is too
>> far north in OSM.
>>
>> 4) Actually the nothern edge of the eco reserve needs to be split off
>> because it is now also the border of the reservation.
>>
>> 5) Add the ways created for the norther edge of the toe into the
>> reservation's relation.
>>
>> And that is it. And I need to not break all of the other things around.
>> Easy peasy! :--)
>>
>> I am open to any suggestions. On the other hand, I am willing to do
>> these things when I figure out some of the advanced stuff in JOSM. Fun
>> stuff.
>>
>> cheers - ray
>>
>>
>>
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>>
>
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Re: [Talk-us] interesting crossing of borders between CA and AZ

[Clifford Snow]

Ray,
Thanks for taking on the task of fixing the tribal boundaries. From
personal experience of having done a number of these, it's hard work and
easy to make errors. But don't let that discourage you. It feels great once
you're complete.

One note - as far as I know, tribal boundaries should just be
boundary=aboriginal_lands. Admin levels are designed for areas tagged
boundary=administrative. Because tribal lands/reservations have a unique
standings they should just be tagged boundary=aboriginal_lands.

Feel free to contact me directly if you need help.

Clifford

On Mon, Nov 9, 2020 at 2:03 PM Ray Kiddy  wrote:

> Hello -
>
> I am seeing an interesting editing task at the eastern edge of Riverside
> County in California. As of now, I am not expert enough in JOSM to do
> it, but I will, at some point, be able to do it and I will do it then.
> Unless someone else wants it.
>
> I am starting to add lines to define the city boundaries of Blythe, CA.
> Almost nothing is there in OSM.
>
> But the interesting bit is at the nothern part of the eastern edge of
> the city boundary. This line in the Colorado River actually separates
> the states of California and Arizona and is the eastern boarder of
> Blythe but it is also the western border of the Colorado River Indian
> Tribes Reservation (https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/702934460).
>
> The issue is that the southern border of the reservation actually
> crosses the CA-AZ state line and this is not seen in OSM. It has a "toe"
> sort of shape, facing west. See the eastern edge of the map below.
>
> https://gis.countyofriverside.us/Html5Viewer/?viewer=MMC_Public
>
> So, what I think I need to do is:
>
> 1) Change the reservation from a way into a relation with the proper
> admin level. (Done)
>
> 1a) Fix the southern border of the reservation, which should cover the
> road there. The reservation does not include the road in OSM.
>
> 2) Split the way that currently cuts off the toe, but I need to not muck
> up the CA-AZ border.
>
> 3) Add the lines for the toe. This also involves moving the northern
> edge of the Palo Verde Ecological Reserve, whose northern edge is too
> far north in OSM.
>
> 4) Actually the nothern edge of the eco reserve needs to be split off
> because it is now also the border of the reservation.
>
> 5) Add the ways created for the norther edge of the toe into the
> reservation's relation.
>
> And that is it. And I need to not break all of the other things around.
> Easy peasy! :--)
>
> I am open to any suggestions. On the other hand, I am willing to do
> these things when I figure out some of the advanced stuff in JOSM. Fun
> stuff.
>
> cheers - ray
>
>
>
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>


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Re: [Talk-us] Recent Trunk road edits

[Clifford Snow]

Jack,
First off - lets name names. Who is this person? We did have a discussion
on Slack a while back about an editor changing trunk to something other
than trunk. As far as I know we were successful in reverting many of those.

Not everyone is comfortable using Slack and I understand. However, they
should respond to changeset comments. Especially from someone familiar with
the road. If they ignore you, then I would recommend involving DWG. If they
just want to argue then but won't join Slack, then I'd invite them to to
this mailing list discuss why they feel a particular road should be changed
from trunk to primary.

Best,
Clifford

On Sun, Sep 27, 2020 at 6:35 PM Jack Burke  wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> Recently, someone has taken it on himself to downgrade most (all?)
> highway=trunk roads in the eastern U.S. to just primary.  The odd
> thing is that the very wiki page he cites as his reason fully supports
> keeping them as trunk.  Many of them I'm personally familiar with, and
> even absent the wiki's definition, they actually make more sense as
> trunk from a driving perspective.
>
> A few other editors have been getting involved in discussions with
> him, some helpfully, others not quite.  He was specifically invited to
> join this mailing list (and tagging), to discuss things, but as far as
> I can tell hasn't done so yet.  Andy from DWG also suggested that he
> join the OSMUS Slack channel, but I can't tell that he's done that,
> either.
>
> Of particular concern to me isn't just his downgrades, but his
> attitude about them.  Some of his changeset comments basically tell
> anyone who disagrees with him to appeal his decision to him, and he'll
> decide if the appellant is right or not, and if he catches anyone
> reversing his changes, he'll just revert it back.  Given his
> already-posted attitude about his edits, I'm not sure that trying to
> message him privately will do much good.
>
> I'm going to go ahead and put out here that I've gone ahead and
> changed some of them back to highway=trunk anyway, because as I said,
> they just make more sense that way, *and* meet the wiki's definition.
> And I'm quite sure that he'll revert them as soon as he notices.
>
> Does anyone have any suggestions, comments, questions, jokes, etc.,
> about the situation?
>
> Regards,
> Jack
>
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Re: [Talk-us] [Tagging] Large fire perimeter tagging?

[Clifford Snow]

On Sun, Sep 27, 2020 at 7:24 AM Clifford Snow 
wrote:

>
>
> On Sun, Sep 27, 2020 at 12:46 AM Mateusz Konieczny via Tagging <
> tagg...@openstreetmap.org> wrote:
>
>> landuse=forest is used to tag tree covered area, not for how land is used
>>
>
> I don't believe everyone around here will agree with that interpretation.
> I live in an area with significant logging. Typically I will see logging
> trucks bringing in just cut timber to be milled  when I'm out for just a
> short drive. Timber production is a big industry in Alaska, British
> Columbia, Washington, Oregon, and California.
>

I did a check of Washington and saw that there are a number of
landuse=forest that should be natural=trees. I suspect that it's also
happening elsewhere.

>
>> It is also basically universally interpreted this way by various data
>> consumers.
>>
>
> That may be for cartographic interpretation. But researchers may have a
> different opinion. A researcher just interested in potential wildfire areas
> may not be interested in the difference, but someone looking at how much
> land is being used for forestry products may have a different opinion. Or
> in mountainous states where clear cutting often causes landslides. I know
> our state studies where it's dangerous to clear cut because the area is so
> steep.
>
> The wiki on landuse=forest does need some help. We shouldn't be offering a
> tag with such unclear use cases as landuse=forest currently is written.
>

I'm not sure there would be a consensus agreement to revise the wiki to
indicate landuse=forest should be used for timber production.  Thoughts?

>
>
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Re: [Talk-us] [Tagging] Large fire perimeter tagging?

[Clifford Snow]

On Sun, Sep 27, 2020 at 12:46 AM Mateusz Konieczny via Tagging <
tagg...@openstreetmap.org> wrote:

> landuse=forest is used to tag tree covered area, not for how land is used
>

I don't believe everyone around here will agree with that interpretation.
I live in an area with significant logging. Typically I will see logging
trucks bringing in just cut timber to be milled  when I'm out for just a
short drive. Timber production is a big industry in Alaska, British
Columbia, Washington, Oregon, and California.

>
> It is also basically universally interpreted this way by various data
> consumers.
>

That may be for cartographic interpretation. But researchers may have a
different opinion. A researcher just interested in potential wildfire areas
may not be interested in the difference, but someone looking at how much
land is being used for forestry products may have a different opinion. Or
in mountainous states where clear cutting often causes landslides. I know
our state studies where it's dangerous to clear cut because the area is so
steep.

The wiki on landuse=forest does need some help. We shouldn't be offering a
tag with such unclear use cases as landuse=forest currently is written.

Best,
Clifford


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Re: [Talk-us] [Tagging] Large fire perimeter tagging?

[Clifford Snow]

Steve,
Just a reminder, landuse is to tag what the land is used for.
landuse=forest is for areas that have harvestable wood products, ie trees.
Just because there was a fire doesn't mean the landuse changes. Landcover
is a better tag for burnt areas as well as areas just clearcut.



On Thu, Sep 24, 2020 at 2:31 PM stevea  wrote:

> I didn't get a single reply on this (see below), which I find surprising,
> especially as there are currently even larger fires that are more
> widespread all across the Western United States.
>
> I now ask if there are additional, appropriate polygons with tags I'm not
> familiar with regarding landcover that might be added to the map (as
> "landuse=forest" might be strictly true now only in a 'zoning' sense, as
> many of the actual trees that MAKE these forests have sadly burned down, or
> substantially so).
>
> Considering that there are literally millions and millions of acres of
> (newly) burned areas (forest, scrub, grassland, residential, commercial,
> industrial, public, private...), I'm surprised that OSM doesn't have some
> well-pondered and actual tags that reflect this situation.  My initial
> tagging of this (simply tagged, but enormous) polygon as "fire=perimeter"
> was coined on my part, but as I search wiki, taginfo and Overpass Turbo
> queries for similar data in the map, I come up empty.
>
> First, do others think it is important that we map these?  I say yes, as
> this fire has absolutely enormous impact to what we do and might map here,
> both present and future.  The aftermath of this fire (>85,000 acres this
> fire alone) will last for decades, and for OSM to not reflect this in the
> map (somehow, better bolstered than a simple, though huge, polygon tagged
> with fire=perimeter, start_date and end_date) seems OSM "cartographically
> misses something."  I know that HOT mappers map the "present- and
> aftermath-" of humanitarian disasters, I've HOT-participated myself.  So,
> considering the thousands of structures that burned (most of them homes),
> tens of thousands of acres which are burn-scarred and distinctly different
> than their landcover, millions of trees (yes, really) and even landuse is
> now currently tagged, I look for guidance — beyond the simple tag of
> fire=perimeter on a large polygon.
>
> Second, if we do choose to "better" map these incidents and results (they
> are life- and planet-altering on a grand scale) how might we choose to do
> that?  Do we have landcover tags which could replace landuse=forest or
> natural=wood with something like natural=fire_scarred?  (I'm making that
> up, but it or something like it could work).  How and when might we replace
> these with something less severe?  On the other hand, if it isn't
> appropriate that we map any of this, please say so.
>
> Thank you, especially any guidance offered from HOT contributors who have
> worked on post-fire humanitarian disasters,
>
> SteveA
> California (who has returned home after evacuation, relatively safe now
> that this fire is 100% contained)
>
>
> On Aug 29, 2020, at 7:20 PM, stevea  wrote:
> > Not sure if crossposting to talk-us is correct, but it is a "home list"
> for me.
> >
> > I've created a large fire perimeter in OSM from public sources,
> http://www.osm.org/way/842280873 .  This is a huge fire (sadly, there are
> larger ones right now, too), over 130 square miles, and caused the
> evacuation of every third person in my county (yes).  There are hundreds,
> perhaps thousands of structures, mostly residential homes, which have
> burned down and the event has "completely changed" giant redwoods in and
> the character of California's oldest state park (Big Basin).
> >
> > This perimeter significantly affects landuse, landcover and human
> patterns of movement and activity in this part of the world for a
> significant time to come.  It is a "major disaster."  I'm curious how HOT
> teams might delineate such a thing (and I've participated in a HOT fire
> team, mapping barns, water sources for helicopter dips and other human
> structures during a large fire near me), I've simply made a polygon tagged
> fire=perimeter, a name=* tag and a start_date.  I don't expect rendering,
> it's meant to be an "up to right about here" (inside the polygon is/was a
> burning fire, outside was no fire).  I wouldn't say it is more accurate
> than 20 to 50 meters on any edge, an "across a wide street" distance to be
> "off" is OK with me, considering this fire's size, but if a slight skew
> jiggles the whole thing into place better, feel free to nudge.  It's the
> tagging I'm interested in getting right, and perhaps wondering if or even
> that people enter gigantic fires that will significantly change landscape
> for some time into OSM, as I have done.  This will affect my local mapping,
> as a great much has burned.  Even after starting almost two weeks ago, as
> of 20 minutes ago this fire is 33% contained, with good, steady progress.
> These men and women are heroes.
> >
> > 

Re: [Talk-us] place=neighborhood on subdivisions?

[Clifford Snow]

Steve,
If the boundaries exist, you could use admin_level=10.

Most of the neighborhoods I'm familiar with are just small subdivisions
within the city. For example, in Seattle I lived in the Wallingford
Neighborhood. Seattle has defined boundaries for each of the neighborhoods.
In other areas, neighborhoods are roughly defined by people living there.
In those cases using a place= tag makes more sense.

Clifford

On Tue, Sep 22, 2020 at 6:56 PM stevea  wrote:

> If you MUST tag place=neighbourhood (note the u) see if you agree with me
> that this tag makes most sense in a hierarchy where place=suburb (and
> perhaps quarter, if applicable, is/are above) also exist(s).  I'm not
> strictly saying I believe that place=neighbourhood CANNOT exist without
> place=suburb, but it makes me wrinkle my brow a bit at it not fitting as
> well as a landuse=residential (multi)polygon might rather generically and
> innocently (without any hierarchy required) fit in.
>
> SteveA
>
>
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Re: [Talk-us] Trouble with getting Superior National Forest boundary to render on standard map

[Clifford Snow]

Paul,
I don't have a definitive answer for you, but rendering usually takes a
while for large areas. I would expect it to render when zoomed in but
wasn't able to see any rendering on a couple of spot checks. I did notice
that around islands either the forest or the island, are shifted. I would
recommend cleaning those up.

Clifford

On Sun, Aug 30, 2020 at 1:19 PM Paul White  wrote:

> Hello,
>
> I recently added the (super complicated) Superior National Forest boundary
> to OSM, because I noticed it was missing. However, it refuses to render on
> the standard map, even though I ran it through JOSM's validator with no
> problems. (link to relation)
>  I
> don't think it's due to the amount of members, because the Tongass National
> Forest I added recently, with over 10,000 members, renders fine. And I know
> it's not due to the tags on the relation; they are standard to other
> national forests.
>
> If someone could look into it and see what's causing it to break, that
> would be great.
>
> pj
>
>
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Re: [Talk-us] Potential Import of Addresses for Thurston County, WA, USA

[Clifford Snow]

Raven,
I would suggest you add the email contents to the contributors [1] section
of the wiki. I agree with you that we will be modifying their data by not
using their tags and adding ours. I would recommend making a note of that
on the wiki.

I am happy to help you get started with your import. If you have time, we
could do a video chat to go over how I do imports and what would work best
for you. Please email me off line with some time frames that would work for
you.

Clifford


[1]
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Contributors#United_States#Washington_State

On Tue, Aug 25, 2020 at 5:07 PM Raven King 
wrote:

> Alright I have an update:
>
> After an email chain with Thurston County GeoData Center, I finally got
> explicit permission to use the data in open street map.
>
> "Hello Raven,
>
> You can use the data in Open Street Maps and credit GeoData UNLESS you
> change the data in any way. If you change the data you can still use it
> in Open Street Maps but CANNOT credit GeoData and the County. We make
> no warrantees about the data temporally, spatially, or in terms of
> attribution.
>
> Please let me know if this helps to clarify the disclaimer or if you
> still have questions.
>
> Thank you!
>
> Leslie Carman
> GIS Analyst I"
>
> I can provide the entire email chain if required but this is the part
> that matters. As for the terms they gave me, what is the best way of
> handling this? My instinct is just to, in some very minor way, ensure every
> piece of data is modified somehow so future mappers do not have to worry
> about it. Does just adding it to OSM count as modification, since we
> convert the data fields?
>
> At this point, I would like to propose that we import this data, as
> this includes rural towns and unincorporated thurston
> county.
> I would divide the building footprints into small blocks to avoid well
> mapped areas.
> As for addresses, because they are points and there are so few
> addresses in my region, I feel like we could be more aggresive about
> that import, although how much so I am not certain.
>
>
> Also @Clifford Snow if you see this I would appreciate whatever you
> have to teach about imports.
>
> Sincerely,
> Raven
>
>

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Re: [Talk-us] [Imports] Import of Orange County, California Buildings and Addresses

[Clifford Snow]

Tod,
You might want to look into Paul Norman's ogr2osm.py [1] python tool which
can translate shapefiles into .osm files that can be uploaded using JOSM.
It's simple to use, just need to create a translation file for shapefile
fields to OSM tag.

I'm in the process of doing an import of building and addresses for
Marysville, WA. Way smaller than you import. The import page is
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Marysville_Import which has links to my
code including the ogr2osm.py translation scripts.

Feel free to contact me offline if you have any questions.

Best,
Clifford

[1] https://github.com/pnorman/ogr2osm

On Tue, Jul 28, 2020 at 3:06 PM Tod Fitch  wrote:

> I'm planning an import of buildings and addresses for Orange County,
> California. Information on the proposed import can be found on the wiki at
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Orange_County_Building_and_Address_Import
>
> This is a one time import using JOSM.
>
> A links to the data being imported given on the wiki and the data is
> marked as public domain.
>
> Note: There is an effort by ERSI to make this same dataset available to
> mappers working with the RapiD data via MapWithAI. For a description of
> that, see
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Import/Orange_County,_California_Buildings
>
> This is my first attempt at an import so gentle guidance on following best
> procedures will be appreciated.
>
> Regards,
> Tod
>
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Re: [Talk-us] Labeling forestry service roads/tracks

[Clifford Snow]

The legend is just for the USFS road layer that is served by Mapbox on JOSM.


Sent from my Android phone.

On Mon, Jul 20, 2020, 4:48 PM Tod Fitch  wrote:

>
> On Jul 20, 2020, at 4:35 PM, Clifford Snow 
> wrote:
>
> On Mon, Jul 20, 2020 at 3:46 AM  wrote:
>
>> Clifford,
>>
>> Could you repost the legend? It's hard/impossible to make out the
>> surface reliably from aerial photos.
>>
>
> Sure - here is a link
> https://mycloud.snowandsnow.us/index.php/s/7zQNGbyNQqBMj2S
>
>
> Looks a bit different than the legend on my April 2020, Coconino National
> Forest Travel Map:
>
> https://cloud.fitchfamily.org/index.php/s/eKCYzc4TfjMMfdN
>
> —Tod
>
>
>
>
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Re: [Talk-us] Labeling forestry service roads/tracks

[Clifford Snow]

On Mon, Jul 20, 2020 at 3:46 AM  wrote:

> Clifford,
>
> Could you repost the legend? It's hard/impossible to make out the
> surface reliably from aerial photos.
>

Sure - here is a link
https://mycloud.snowandsnow.us/index.php/s/7zQNGbyNQqBMj2S
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Re: [Talk-us] Labeling forestry service roads/tracks

[Clifford Snow]

If you are using JOSM there is a USFS road layer. The color of the way
indicates surface and highway classification if I remember correctly. I
posted the legend on Slack a couple of years ago.

The TIGER import data quality varied from region to region. Even today in
Washington State it's bad, so bad that I don't recommend using it. My guess
is that it's low priority for counties to update Feds, especially when
their budgets are already tight. There is even one county in Washington
State that they don't even have a current road layer.

Best,
Clifford

On Sun, Jul 19, 2020 at 3:48 PM  wrote:

> Hi folks,
>
> Editing in Boundary County, Idaho in the Panhandle, I've been extending
> the forest landuse area around Bonners Ferry and have come across a
> difficulty in classifying forest roads.
>
> It seems that many have been automatically imported and have
> highway=residential, which is just plain wrong.
>
> For roads that appear metalled (paved) and/or access mines, quarries,
> communication towers etc. I label highway=service, for roads that are
> unpaved or sometimes seem to almost fade out I label highway=track. For
> roads that appear to be public access (e.g. to go to a lake) but are
> obviously even more minor than tertiary roads I label highway=unclassified.
>
> Is there a more consistent recommended method?
>
> The US Topo map gives forest road references so I add ref FS .
>
> TIGER seems to be at best very coarse, at worst fictional.
>
> Thanks.
>
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Re: [Talk-us] Finding Changesets to Correct or Revert

[Clifford Snow]

On Wed, Jul 8, 2020 at 11:56 AM Doug Peterson <
dougpeter...@dpeters2.dyndns.org> wrote:

> It's my fault for not zooming in more. I did not see it at all when I
> downloaded that area in JOSM. I sent a note to tyndale about that. I
> understand that there is a direction towards using boundary to replace
> state and county use of leisure=park. I have seen plenty of expections to
> those description, meaning state and county parks that are urban manicured
> parks. However, it is not an argument I'm going to pick. I would just like
> to be sure the parks don't disappear in the process, like this one.
>

I've added a number of state parks in Washington State. I'd be asking why.
boundary=state_park has little use and it is obvious that it doesn't
render.  Most of the discussion on state parks seems to be around tagging
it as a nature reserve. After some quick research, it appears that our
state only has two parks that a portion of the land is considered nature
reserve.

>
> What query feature did you use?
>

I use the OSM Website query tool
https://mycloud.snowandsnow.us/index.php/s/MeEjnCeidjB2QQr

>
>
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Re: [Talk-us] Finding Changesets to Correct or Revert

[Clifford Snow]

I believe this is the park
https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/549549501#map=14/41.9987/-86.5489.
Looking at the history, I see when you created it. It was changed to
boundary=park by user tyndale on changeset
openstreetmap.org/changeset/86836794

I don't believe boundary=state_park is appropriate. User tyndale didn't
offer any insight on why the change in the changeset comment. You might ask
them.

BTW - I found the park by using the query feature and looking at the
history.

Best,
Clifford

On Wed, Jul 8, 2020 at 9:04 AM Doug Peterson <
dougpeter...@dpeters2.dyndns.org> wrote:

> I have noticed that a state park has disappeared in Michigan. It is one
> that I had worked on. Many years ago I had used a tool to find changesets
> that affected a particular area but don't seem to be able to find something
> like that in my bookmarks or searching. I could put the boundaries back but
> I don't know what else might have been deleted in the process so I would
> like to find the changeset.
>
> Any recommendations?
>
> https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=14/42.0054/-86.5469
>
> Thank you,
>
> Doug Peterson
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Re: [Talk-us] relations on which thematic data can be connected? eg internet availabilty byt zipcode

[Clifford Snow]

Ray,
As  you learned from Spencer Alves, postal codes are not areas. As far as I
know there are no zip code areas in OSM. I would recommend using QGIS and
Postgis to construct your queries using OSM and TIGER zip code boundaries.

Are you looking for any broadband connectivity, just cellular, DSL, fiber,
satellite, or a combination of all of them? My experience is that cellular
maps often overstate their reach. Satellite internet service isn't really
that great because of the lag time involved. (Upcoming low earth orbit
communications satellites promise break thoughts )

Your project is interesting. I hope to read about your conclusions. BTW - I
do have friends that only get internet service via their cell phones.
Another even used to live off the grid on purpose. When we went looking for
a place in rural Washington, we definitely had to exclude places that
either didn't have internet service or the cell service was non-existent.

Good luck,
Clifford



On Wed, Jun 24, 2020 at 2:33 PM Ray Kiddy  wrote:

> Hello -
>
> I am interested in where people in the US lack internet connectivity and
> I keep thinking that I should be able to use OSM for some part of this.
>
> I am recalling (perhaps not accurately) that connectivity information is
> published by the FCC and I think that at least some of the information
> is per zipcode.
>
> This led me into a bit of a rat hole as I sought to find out if there
> are relations for zipcodes in the US. Does anyone know? I know that
> TIGER data defines lines that bound zipcodes. But can one craft a query
> that maps just the edges of a zipcode area? Are there then relations
> defined for those edges?
>
> I can keep thematic data on my own database but, so far, I do it by
> linking directly to a relation or way. If it had to be a set of
> relations, that would be unfortunate, but possible. But I am not seeing
> how to make the queries.
>
> Any ideas?
>
> cheers - ray
>
>
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Re: [Talk-us] Labeling county roads (Idaho)

[Clifford Snow]

Be cautious using TIGER data in rural areas. I suspect many of the small
counties don't have the resources to send updates to Census. I'd recommend
looking at county and state data sources for accurate road names.

Best,
Clifford

On Sun, Jun 21, 2020 at 6:29 AM  wrote:

>
> Newby here.
>
> Started mapping an area of the Idaho panhandle around the Kootenai
> river. I notice that currently minor roads have a "County Road nn" name
> but TIGER2019 data also has names such as "Acacia Avenue". I think most
> map users would want to use the "Acacia Avenue" name as it what would be
> listed in postal addresses and they'd want to search it in applications
> such as OSMand. Question is how to handle this. Also, what to set the
> "ref" to for county roads.
>
> There's not much information on the roads tagging page:
>
>
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/United_States_roads_tagging#Individual_states_2
>
> Proposal: use alt_name for "County Road nn" and name for "Acacia Avenue"
> where a name is given. (I've seen name_1 used but this is not really a
> "standard" OSM tag, AFAIK.)
>
> For ref: set the ref to the county road number until someone can come up
> with a better proposal...
>
> Any Idahoans have any information?
>
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Re: [Talk-us] admin_level and COGs, MPOs, SPDs, Home Rule

[Clifford Snow]

Steve,
I don't have the patience to put up with discussions about admin levels. As
you know they can drag on forever. I did post a link to the discussion on
the Connecticut Slack channel. Maybe that will get more people involved.

Good luck,
Clifford

On Wed, May 6, 2020 at 11:31 PM stevea  wrote:

> If you fancy yourself (or know one!) a political scientist steeped enough
> in US law, history and politics sufficient to discuss subtle, nuanced
> topics like Home Rule and Dillon's law, a Discussion in our wiki could use
> your wisdom and guidance.
>
> As the OSM community in USA discussed boundary=administrative at length in
> 2017, admin_level got "mostly" hashed out, with a "settled" consensus about
> COGs, MPOs, SPDs and their ilk.  (Briefly, admin_level=2 federal, 4 state,
> 6 county and 8 city/town are rough rungs, 7 emerged for townships and 5 is
> the multi-county glom-of-6s New York City, OSM's only 5 in the USA).  But
> COGs/MPOs/SPDs and their ilk stuck in many craws and apparently is
> difficult for some, even many.
>
> The topic is active again at
> https://wiki.osm.org/wiki/Talk:United_States_admin_level#Recently_added_Connecticut_COG_.28Regions.29_as_5_and_CDP_as_10_should_be_deleted
> and seems to need the assistance of seasoned political scientists who can
> say whether a COG in Connecticut, for example, is "a government" or not.
> (I say a COG/MPO is a LIMITED government, like a sewer district, so isn't
> "really" a "full spectrum" government, therefore shouldn't get an
> admin_level value, as this key associates with boundary=administrative).
>
> Some Wikipedia links to "Home Rule in the USA" and "Dillon's Rule" are
> clickable at the end of that long Discussion, then I "run out of
> intellectual gas."  Please help this Discussion if you have this sort of
> knowledge / wisdom to contribute.
>
> Thank you,
> SteveA
> California
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[Talk-us] OSM Foundation’s Call for Microgrant Applications

[Clifford Snow]

In case you missed this announcement, I'm reposting it on talk-us mailing
list.


2020 will be the first year that the OSM Foundation operates the new
microgrants project. In the coming weeks, we hope to hear from you about a
bold, community-driven, and impactive OpenStreetMap project idea that will
benefit from a microgrant of up to 5000 euros. We welcome a broad range of
projects, with the minimum requirement being a clear connection to
OpenStreetMap.

What is a microgrant ? In our
case, it is a modest amount of funds awarded to applicants in order to fund
direct expenses of a project. For an idea of successful projects, you can
take a look at the Humanitarian OpenStreetMap Team’s 2019 microgrant
awardees
.
Keep in mind that the OSMF has a wider focus than the humanitarian sector,
spanning our global community, and welcomes applications with any focus
that relates to OpenStreetMap. We particularly encourage applicants to
consider the core values from the OSMF’s mission statement
and how any
microgrant work can incorporate them.

The OSMF Microgrant Program focuses on simple grant proposals, and we will
swiftly decide on what to fund. Our goal is to avoid a complicated and long
application and decision process. You should submit a brief and concise
proposal, and we plan to quickly announce the awardees.

We encourage submissions from individuals, groups, and organizations who
have a clear idea they want to pursue. Each project should be completed
within 12 months of the microgrant being awarded this spring. Microgrants
are open to all OSMF members, and can be submitted in any language. If you
are not yet a member of OSMF then you can apply to join
 up until the time you submit a microgrant
application, and be eligible for an award. Please note there is a fee
waiver program that may allow you to join the OSMF at no cost.


In light of the ongoing health crisis regarding COVID19, we will not be
awarding microgrants for projects which require offline group gatherings
and in person meetings, although these ideas are certainly valuable for
future rounds.

Funding can be used for a variety of purposes. You may need tools and
supplies for mapping activity, funds for training materials, technology
expenses for a series of virtual mapathons, prizes for an online coding,
mapping, or writing contest, and many more examples. Please embrace your
own creativity and not feel limited by the range of examples.


We encourage you to consult with your local OpenStreetMap community when
planning a microgrant application, and make sure you adhere to community
guidelines in the scope of the project. If accepted for a microgrant, you
will be responsible for reporting progress, signing a grant agreement, and
making sure to follow the detailed microgrant rules
. It is
strongly suggested that your project uses the funding to enable volunteer
work to have a wider and stronger impact than it would without funding.

The call for microgrants will open on April 19th, 2020 and we will continue
to accept applications through May 10th, 2020. In order to submit,  visit
the OSM Wiki page
 and
click on “Start your application”

to enter the template. When this is complete, send a message to microgrants
at osmfoundation.org. We also encourage sharing your application on
osmf-talk when it is submitted. If you need help with the submission
process, please feel free to contact the Microgrants Committee for help. If
you don’t have enough time to prepare your plan and application, please
consider submitting it in a possible future round of microgrants.

Once the submission period closes on May 10th, we invite the community to
review the complete list of submissions and provide feedback on the wiki
page. We also will accept feedback by email to microgrants at
osmfoundation.org and via osmf-talk.

Complete timeline:

   -

   April 19: call for microgrant applications opens
   -

   May 10: final date for submission (23:59 Pacific Time Zone, USA).
   -

   May 10-TBD: community feedback period
   -

   Late May: announcement of awards


For more details, see the complete rules and guidelines on the OSM wiki
 and
contact us at microgrants at osmfoundation.org with any questions. This is
the first time the OSMF is sponsoring such an activity, and we look forward
to learning together about how this benefits our community and how to build
a transparent, effective, and inclusive microgrants program for everyone
involved. We are grateful for the opportunity 

Re: [Talk-us] Taking a break and a call for help

[Clifford Snow]

Paul,
I hope you have good luck recovering from having your truck stolen. (A
number of years ago, a neighbor had his van stolen in Seattle. It was
recovered in Portland not only in good shape, but with new leather seats -
which is certainly the exception.)

Obviously your job is very important, not only to you, but to the people
your hospital serves. Keep up the good work in these difficult times.

I just got back from a trip so I haven't had time to look at recent Amazon
edits that are now using RapidID. So far, I've had the good fortune with
good edits from their team. They have been responsive to my comments when
they do make mistakes. (Which is rare.)

Best,
Clifford



On Fri, Mar 20, 2020 at 4:07 PM Paul Johnson  wrote:

> So, you all know at this point that I've been heavily invested in editing
> OSM and contributing to my maximum activity, less as a need to help a
> charity and more of an obligation to the public to do the most good with
> the short time I have on this planet.  However, I've had a few events come
> up that are more or less killing my ability to keep up.
>
> I'm taking a step back from being the primary editor in the Oklahoma
> region until this passes.
>
> 3) Amazon Logistics and a revolving door team of one-edit-and-done spam
> accounts keeps throwing paid contributions into Oklahoma that are of poorly
> aligned, largely fictional and low quality.  I'm stuck cleaning up in a
> neglected part of North America some particularly low quality edits with
> limited resources and little ability to find more.  I hope other
> contributors can help keep abreast and I hope OSM Foundation can help keep
> paid contributors to account.  I don't think it's unreasonable to think
> that paid mapper should be contributing *far* higher quality data than
> your average volunteer first time mapper, and I think OSM needs to have a
> serious conversation about minimum qualifications for paid mapping that I
> simply don't have the time or energy for at this point.  Dealing with this
> (and staying abreast extensive OkTrans highway modernization efforts
> lately) have been a major part of my editing (and while OkTrans is
> unavoidable, Amazon is inexcusable).
>
> 2) My truck was stolen last night
> , along with
> the dashcams I use for Mapillary, essentially making long range surveying
> impossible and imperiling my survival since, if for nothing else, I need to
> hit Costco for restocking my pantry and storeroom.  As such, I had to call
> off work and spent most of the day today dealing with the police today.
>
> 1) I work in the IT department of a major regional hospital on the front
> lines of the COVID-19 response in the US.  My vacation at the end of next
> month, and my weekends for the next two months, have been cancelled, and
> I'm expected to work 8+ hours a day, 7 days a week to help keep things up
> and running so the medical staff don't have to think about the computers.
>
> I really hope OSMF and the DWG takes a good, hard and critical look at
> dealing with the low quality edits from Amazon and spammers while I deal
> with acquiring another (or, best case, my stolen) pickup and dealing with
> my professional life.
>
>
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Re: [Talk-us] [Imports] Preliminary Import/Organized Mapping Effort Idea

[Clifford Snow]

I asked the Jamestown S'Klallam Tribe, near Sequim, WA for updated
boundaries. The state boundaries did not match what was on the tribes
website. They provided me with an update - the same one they just sent the
Census Bureau. With the 2020 census my guess is that TIGER might have some
good boundaries. (I didn't ask, but found it interesting that Census came
directly to the tribe instead of BIA.)

Jamestown S'Klallam brings up the question of rendering off reservation
trust lands. I asked Jamestown, they recommended rendering it differently.
For those not on Slack, I asked the same question there - should we create
a rendering for off reservation trust lands? This tribe is a good example
of why we might want to. They have substantially more off reservation lands
than reservation lands. The tribe closest to me (Swinomish) has one small
lot of off reservation land, but a large reservation. They could probably
care less. (The lot is located in downtown La Conner - a small tourist town
nearby. It's not in OSM. )

I'd like others opinion of rendering. Washington maybe totally different
than the rest of the country.

Happy New Years All,
Clifford

On Fri, Dec 20, 2019 at 5:22 PM Paul Johnson  wrote:

> On Fri, Dec 20, 2019 at 7:18 PM Clifford Snow 
> wrote:
>
>> I've reached out to a couple of the nearby reservations, one with a small
>> parcel of off reservation land trust, the other with only a small
>> reservation but a very large off reservation land trust. I don't expect
>> answers until possibly after the new year. Unlike Oklahoma, Washington
>> reservations are pretty straight forward. The Yakama Nation has a large
>> disputed area but I'm inclined to show it as reservation land. I haven't
>> updated it yet because the borders are tied up in multiple relations that
>> need undoing.
>>
>
> Well, that's mostly fortunate.  The disputed area and definitely Fort
> Simcoe would be potentially sore spots to look out for and look into more
> if reasonable.
>


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Re: [Talk-us] FW: US Bicycle Route 1 through Daytona Beach

[Clifford Snow]

Kerry - the new cycle path has been added. See
https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=19/29.19623/-81.01173

Do you know if it is paved or what kind of surface? Is it supposed to
connect to the ECG, the East Coast Greenway route? From Strava it doesn't
appear to?

On Mon, Dec 30, 2019 at 4:41 PM Kerry Irons  wrote:

> Thanks Clifford.  I will explore ways Adventure Cycling might recruit
> mappers.
>

Let us know if we could help with your website by providing instructions on
how to update OSM.

As a side note, Tesla drivers discovered that the cars use OSM basemaps.
They have been updating parking lots so drivers can "summons" their
vehicles. When it was discovered we had a big increase in new mappers.

Best,
Clifford

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Re: [Talk-us] FW: US Bicycle Route 1 through Daytona Beach

[Clifford Snow]

I passed along your request on the US Slack Channel. Sam Ley is going to
take a look at the area tonight.

Can you also ask your subscribers to add the route? Do you have
instructions on your site to add and update cycle routes in OSM which could
help us get more needed mappers?

Best,
Clifford

On Mon, Dec 30, 2019 at 2:19 PM Kerry Irons  wrote:

> All,
>
> Another "bike path that doesn't show up in OCM or OSM" in FL.  This is in
> Daytona Beach: neither Google Maps or OpenStreetMap show the new bike path
> at Bethune Point Park between Bellevue Ave. and Shady Pl.  It does show up
> on Google Satellite but when you "Get Directions" with Google Maps and
> choose the bicycle icon from the choice list, Google Maps routes you onto
> S. Beach St.  The city wants USBR 1 to use this path but it's not possible
> to provide them with a route map when OSM doesn't recognize this path.
> I've suggested to the City that they should notify Google Maps but I'm
> guessing the OSM community can put this right well before Google would
> respond.
>
> Any OSM mappers on the ground near Daytona Beach that can capture this new
> bike path in OSM?
>
>
> Kerry Irons
> Adventure Cycling Association
> 989-513-7871
>
>
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Re: [Talk-us] [Imports] Preliminary Import/Organized Mapping Effort Idea

[Clifford Snow]

I've reached out to a couple of the nearby reservations, one with a small
parcel of off reservation land trust, the other with only a small
reservation but a very large off reservation land trust. I don't expect
answers until possibly after the new year. Unlike Oklahoma, Washington
reservations are pretty straight forward. The Yakama Nation has a large
disputed area but I'm inclined to show it as reservation land. I haven't
updated it yet because the borders are tied up in multiple relations that
need undoing.

Best,
Clifford

On Fri, Dec 20, 2019 at 4:42 PM David Bartecchi 
wrote:

> All of these concerns must be weighed against the fact that the current
> absence of Native lands in OSM only contributes to the erasure Native
> Americans and their lands from the American collective conscience.
>
> Dave
>
> On Fri, Dec 20, 2019 at 5:27 PM Paul Johnson  wrote:
>
>> Content warning: Aboriginal abuse mention
>>
>> On Fri, Dec 20, 2019 at 2:08 PM Clifford Snow 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> I do have Washington State tribal lands available [1]  as a background
>>> layer for JOSM. There is also a vector tile layer [2] of the same
>>> background available for iD users.
>>>
>>> The data contains the name in english and the land type of Disputed
>>> Area, Off-Reservation Trust Land, Reservation, and Tribal Headquarters.
>>> Only 4 disputed areas but 60 Off-Reservation areas. Some people include
>>> Off-Reservation in tribal lands while others do not. My sense is that they
>>> should be tagged as boundary=aboriginal_lands. I'd like to hear the opinion
>>> of the group.
>>>
>>
>> The TLDR: I, personally, have not been including trust lands in Oklahoma,
>> for pragmatic reasons.  The situation is complicated, painful to many, and
>> politically loaded on a level where I don't think OSM should sort out trust
>> lands yet.
>>
>> I'm aware of several dozen trust exclaves, but they all fall into one of
>> three categories.
>>
>>1. The exclave is presently unclaimed or claimed but no longer
>>occupied by multiple tribes, and thus the status is ambiguous other than
>>it's within BIA jurisdiction.  Most Oklahoma exclaves fall into this
>>category, and it's really complicated.
>>2. The exclave is claimed by one tribe but it's ability to establish
>>a presence and primary jurisdiction is in question.  There's an exclave in
>>Boise, OK where one of the tribes (not sure which, but pretty sure not
>>mine) presently has plans to open a travel center and casino, however, 
>> this
>>exclave is hundreds of kilometers from their jurisdictional area and
>>whether or not they can even claim the exclave is nebulous.  It's
>>effectively tribal terra nullius.
>>3. The Chilocco Indian Residential School.  This one gets super
>>touchy.  The school, which closed in 1980, has sat abandoned and uncared
>>for since, yet can't be torn down without considerable red tape since the
>>site is on the National Historic Register.  The school is currently
>>assigned to five additional tribes in the immediate region, and they
>>cooperatively ran a rehabilitation center for the school's victims at the
>>site in the 1990s and 2000s, but the rehab facility has also sat abandoned
>>since at least 2011 with no plans for the site, and the whole enclave
>>currently is off limits to everyone, very intermittently used as a 
>> training
>>ground for federal police agencies, further rubbing sandpaper into 
>> unhealed
>>wounds for many.  No surprise, the original school that operated for 98
>>years is widely criticized for most of its existence, and especially in 
>> its
>>final decade of operation, for being little more than a concentration camp
>>for indian children as part of the US's plan for Americanization of
>>indians. As far as I can tell, abuse at the school was institutionalized,
>>frequent and persistent enough it's hard not to imagine it wasn't by
>>design.  It might as well be scorched earth.
>>
>> Add this into the fact that not all of Oklahoma's tribes (or even the
>> relevant tribes that potentially have claim to these parcels) get along
>> with each other.  Add that Governor Stitt has been talking about cancelling
>> state compacts with the tribes this month, and we're actually seeing nearly
>> unprecedented intertribal unity and cooperation right now (weird how a
>> common threat does that).
>>
>> All that said, my read on the situation?  Trying to sort out the trust
>> lands in Oklahoma is politica

Re: [Talk-us] [Imports] Preliminary Import/Organized Mapping Effort Idea

[Clifford Snow]

Mike,
Thanks to you, David and Paul for taking the initiative to mapping Natiive
American Reservations. On and off for the last few years I've been
attempting to reservations mapped in Washington State. My first choice for
boundary information has always been from the reservation then the state.
I've avoided BIA because their data doesn't seem accurate, at least at the
time when I first started adding reservations. I look forward to seeing how
it compares to the boundaries I added.

I especially applaud your desire to involve Native American youth in the
project. I have struggled to make any headway getting the tribes involved.
Related to that I've been asking people I know that work for the tribes
about adding features in their native language. A number of the tribes
around me are working hard to ensure their languages not only survives but
flourishes. I'm hoping with my connections I can partner with the tribe get
them to actively contribute to OSM using their native language. It is
something you might also consider doing.

Let me know how I can help,
Clifford

On Tue, Dec 17, 2019 at 4:35 PM Mike Thompson  wrote:

>
> Village Earth's Native Land Advocacy Project[1], David Bartecchi[2], Paul
> Johnson[3], and I[4] are considering an organized effort to improve the
> boundaries of Native American Reservations in the US.  We have studied the
> import guidelines on the wiki and will follow those, however, we first
> wanted to see:
>
> 1) If there was any fundamental objection to this idea before even the
> details are spelled out
>
> 2) If anyone is already working on this issue.
>
> 3) If anyone would like to join us.
>
>
> We are thinking that our general approach will be:
>
> 1) Use data from this source:
> https://biamaps.doi.gov/dataDownload/index.htmlIt has a compatible
> license, but will verify and document as part of this process.
>
> 2) Somehow allow mappers to "check out" a particular reservation's
> boundary.  Exact mechanism is TBD.
>
> 3) A human mapper will examine each boundary individually
>
> 4) Where OSM does not have a corresponding reservation boundary, the
> mapper will import the boundary into OSM (not sure of the exact mechanics
> at this time).  If the boundary needs to participate in a boundary
> relation, that will be handled here. Tag mapping is TBD at this point.
> Any conflicts with existing OSM features will be addressed in this step.
>
> 5) Where OSM has a boundary and it does not match the above source, and it
> has not been edited by a human mapper, proceed as in 4 above, except only
> replace geometry and preserve the history of the existing OSM features.
>
> 6) Where OSM has a boundary and it does not match our source, but it has
> been edited by a human mapper, use additional sources, including tribal
> sources, and county sources, to determine the true boundary and make
> necessary edits in OSM.  Deference will be given to the edits made by local
> mappers.
>
> To be determined:
> We are aware of some cases where different government bodies (e.g. Federal
> Government vs. a state government) dispute the extent of a reservation.
>
> Long term we would like to involve Native Americans, particularly youth
> living on reservations, in adding additional details to OSM about
> reservations, such as street names, amenities, etc., but we don't envision
> this as part of this import/organized effort process.
>
> We look forward to your initial feedback on this preliminary concept.
>
> Mike
>
>
> [1] Village Earth is a 501(c)(3) nonprofit organization that has worked in
> Indian Country for over 20 years and works closely with the Indian Land
> Tenure Foundation
> [2] David works for Village Earth
> [3] Most people on this list are probably familiar with Paul, a long time
> contributor to OSM
> [4] My OSM user name is tekim, I have been mapping in OSM since 2009.
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Re: [Talk-us] Townships, Counties, Great Lakes

[Clifford Snow]

On Sat, Oct 5, 2019 at 10:18 AM Max Erickson  wrote:

> I've recently been working on adding administrative boundaries for
> townships in Michigan (old USGS paper maps show the boundaries, I'm tracing
> those). Previously I've concluded that counties in Michigan don't really
> extend into the Great Lakes. The sheriff has jurisdiction on the water
> (extending into the water near adjacent counties), but that's about the end
> of it. For the most part Michigan counties are modeled like that, using the
> shoreline as part of the boundary.
>
> What I am wondering about is whether townships should also use the
> shoreline, splitting it into quite a few more pieces than currently exist.
> The alternative would be a ways that share nodes with the shoreline. I'm
> leaning in that direction but I figure it will be a pretty noisy change, so
> I'm asking what people think before proceeding.
>
> Just recently I looked at some of the county borders in Washington State.
For example, Skagit County, where I reside, extends into Puget Sound where
it shares boundaries with Island County, San Juan County and Whatcom County
to the north. Each of the counties like you said have jurisdiction not only
of the water but also tide flats. Other counties share boundaries using the
middle of rivers. Having the boundaries exactly as the state specifies can
help OSM users determine which agency to contact. In fact, I reported to
our county gis their parcel layer doesn't match the states description of
the county boundary. (Whether or not they fix it is a whole different can
of worms.)

On the other hand, State Parks often extend into lakes and ocean. I've
talked to the state parks department who is okay with the boundary stopping
at the shoreline.

Best,
Clifford
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Re: [Talk-us] Maine leaf-off imagery?

[Clifford Snow]

On Fri, Oct 4, 2019 at 8:16 AM Bill Ricker  wrote:

> I would also be interested in how to use LAZ files with OSM tools or other
> FLOSS tools.
> (I note there's an open tool to uncompress LAZ to LAS.)
> I see some tutorials for extracting buildings, but I'm interested in
> traces of former land-use - finding artificial linear ground features under
> the foliage.
>

I use QGIS with LAS files. I haven't used it but https://laszip.org/ tools
should help with the conversion from laz to las. Once I have the lidar
loaded, roads and other features can be traced into either a geojson or
shapefile for loading into JOSM. QGIS isn't as easy as iD or JOSM to draw
features but adequate for most purposes.

I did see a presentation on using ML for extracting buildings and other
objects from Lidar. They were able to not only do an excellent job of
extracting buildings but could also extract high voltage power lines. The
company rep that gave the presentation does flights over high voltage power
lines to check for vegetation growth that may require trimming.

Best,
Clifford

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Re: [Talk-us] Maine leaf-off imagery?

[Clifford Snow]

Is there any lidar data available for the area? It might be a good
substitute for leaf-off imagery.

On Wed, Oct 2, 2019 at 6:19 PM Kevin Broderick 
wrote:

> Anyone have an ODbL-compatible source of leaf-off imagery for Maine, by
> any chance? I'm particularly interested in the area around Bethel, as I'm
> trying to update minor roadways, add buildings with driveways, etc.,
> and even switching between the various imagery available in id leaves a lot
> of questions unanswered. Leaf-off imagery would be incredibly helpful, the
> more so if it were actually recent.
>
> (Yes, I've been surveying where feasible, but I'm not about to start going
> up driveways to get building dimensions.)
>
> Many thanks.
>
> --
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> k...@kevinbroderick.com
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Re: [Talk-us] Announcing our Interim Executive Director & Upcoming Election

[Clifford Snow]

Maggie,
Congratulations on stepping into the Executive Director role. Having a
person with actual OSM experience makes you a great choice. I'm sure
replacing you on the Board will be difficult but I'm hopeful we see some
good candidates step forward.

Jonah was somewhat vague on what you will be focusing on so I'm going to
jump in with some suggestions.

   - Apply for official chapter status with OSMF for OSM US
   - Establish a Communications Working Group to get our story out
   - Create infrastructure that would support hosting openstreetmap.us
   basemap, planet, and changesets

Please let me and the rest of the volunteer community know how we can help
you help us.

Best,
Clifford

On Wed, Mar 27, 2019 at 6:40 AM Jonah Adkins  wrote:

> In 2018 the board was unable to spend much time working with and
> supporting the US mapping community because the majority of the board’s
> volunteer time was spent on a hiring process that unfortunately did not
> work out as planned. It became clear that the absence of an Executive
> Director was a step backwards for the organization, and that it would be
> best for someone to step into the role as soon as possible. We’re excited
> to announce that we have hired Maggie Cawley to serve as interim Executive
> Director. Please give her a warm welcome! [@MaggieMaps].
>
> Maggie brings fifteen years of professional geospatial experience,
> specializing in open source geospatial tools and education. Her passion for
> maps has taken her all over the world - leading field data collection
> efforts, training others in open source geospatial tools, or just spreading
> the word about OpenStreetMap. She has been a board member for the last two
> years and has also been a long time volunteer for TeachOSM, where she has
> worked to promote the integration of geography into classrooms through
> OpenStreetMap and supported teachers wanting to learn about OSM.
>
> Now, Maggie will be based in Baltimore working full time to support and
> grow OpenStreetMap US. For the remainder of the year, Maggie will be
> working with the community and the board to develop a strategic plan for
> the organization, including new programs and ideas for OpenStreetMap US.
> She will be connecting with the community as much as possible, developing
> ways to expand programming and membership, leading fundraising efforts, and
> supporting the board with day-to-day administrative responsibilities. We
> believe her passion for maps, professional experience, and dedication to
> the OpenStreetMap community will benefit OpenStreetMap US over the coming
> months and we hope you will reach out and help us welcome her into this new
> role.
>
> Election to Fill Vacant Seat
>
> As a result of taking on the interim ED role, Maggie is stepping down from
> her seat on the board and we will need to fill her shoes through an
> election. We urge you to nominate yourself or someone else to join the
> Board for the remainder of the year. As a board member, you will help plan
> for State of the Map US, be a part of the strategic planning process for
> the organization, and support the US mapping community.
>
> Questions? Join the #elections channel on OSM US Slack, tweet us, or email
> us anytime.
>
> Nomination Instructions
>
> Nominations will be open from today, March 25 until Sunday March 31. To
> nominate yourself, please go to the election wiki page, and add yourself to
> the list. You can also see more information about the schedule and updated
> timeline there.
>
> Election Details
>
> Monday April 1 and end Sunday April 7. This year based on popular request
> we’re excited to announce that we’ll be using Ranked Choice Voting. To be
> permitted to vote please make sure your OpenStreetMap US membership is in
> good standing by March 31. We should be able to announce the new board
> member on April 8.
>
>
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Re: [Talk-us] Proposed mechanical edit - remove objects that are not existing according to source of GNIS import that added them

[Clifford Snow]

On Thu, Mar 21, 2019 at 9:52 AM Mateusz Konieczny 
wrote:

> Good idea, independent check would be welcomed!
>
> Something from Seattle region would be OK, right?
>
> If my googling went right the you are probably interested
> in data around
> https://www.openstreetmap.org/user/Glassman/history#map=8/47.780/-122.388
>
>
Seattle area is fine or Skagit County to the north. Seattle would give me
more nodes to review which is good.

Clifford
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Re: [Talk-us] Proposed mechanical edit - remove objects that are not existing according to source of GNIS import that added them

[Clifford Snow]

I'm in favor of the bot but I'd like to review a sample of the data being
removed in my area. The purpose is to test the assumption that the data is
of no use.

Best,
Clifford

On Thu, Mar 21, 2019 at 9:32 AM Mateusz Konieczny 
wrote:

> Mar 21, 2019, 3:56 PM by m...@rtijn.org:
>
> Re-reading this I phrased this with more hyperbole than I intended, sorry.
>
> I see no problem here, after all lack of control over automated edit is
> how we ended
> in this situation.
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Re: [Talk-us] Online mappy hour

[Clifford Snow]

Thanks for clarifying the date - I can make the 28th 6PM PDT. Adding it to
my calendar.

On Mon, Mar 18, 2019 at 11:20 AM Martijn van Exel  wrote:

>
> > On Mar 18, 2019, at 1:57 PM, Richard Welty 
> wrote:
> [..]
> > next thursday as in the 21st or the 28th? i'm going to be on my flight
> > to IETF on the 21st but back on the 28th if the airlines cooperate.
>
> Sorry, I meant the 28th.
>
> Martijn
>
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Re: [Talk-us] Michigan Forest Land

[Clifford Snow]

David,
Thanks for asking on the talk-us mailing list before importing the data.
Guidelines for importing data into OSM are available at
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Import/Guidelines. Please read the
guidelines before proceeding. Basically the guideline want to insure that
the data is licensed suitably for import into OSM, that the data is
suitable for OSM, how you plan to convert between the states tagging to OSM
tagging, conflating the data with what's already in OSM, and what account
you plan to use to upload the data. A quick look at the states site it
would appear that there is no license issue and the data seems suitable for
import. Especially the state parks and wildlife preserves.

The best editor I've found for this type of import is JOSM [1]. It sounds
like you may not be familiar with JOSM. You can get help at Learnosm.org
[2].

I would recommend getting started by doing some edits in JOSM before
tackling this project.

[1]. josm.openstreetmap.de
[2]. https://learnosm.org/en/josm/

Best,
Clifford


On Thu, Mar 7, 2019 at 8:57 AM David Martin  wrote:

> Hi,
>
> I'm new to editing OSM, having been a heavy user of OSMAnd for Android for
> several years.  I primarily use the maps for snowmobiling here in Northern
> Michigan, and building my own database of gpx tracks.
>
> The Michigan maps are lacking the information for state forest land.  I
> have noted that the Upper Peninsula does have some state and national
> forest areas, but there is much missing here in the Lower Peninsula.
>
> I have found the data on the State of Michigan website, and have
> successfully downloaded the shapefile for all state forest land.
>
> I would like to proceed with adding this data to OSM, with the help of
> experienced editors.
>
> This is public data, available at
> http://gis-michigan.opendata.arcgis.com/datasets/dfe0bcec31184b57b9f0d96bc02d6548_1
>
> This is high-value data for all OSM users in Michigan, to understand when
> they are public land and help prevent trespassing onto private land.  I
> often have to switch over to Google Maps to see if I am on state land.
>
> Please advise as to how I may proceed.
>
> Thanks,
> David Martin
>
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Re: [Talk-us] Hello World!

[Clifford Snow]

Wesley,
Welcome to OSM. It nice to seem someone from a local GIS community
contribute. I don't know of other mappers in your area, I'm in the PNW, but
I can suggest looking at http://resultmaps.neis-one.org/oooc to see who
maps around the area. Besides this mailing list we also have an active
Slack community which you can join at https://slack.openstreetmap.us/. I
should also plug attending our annual conference. This year it is being
held in Minneapolis from Sep. 6-8th. You could hop on I35 and drive all the
way there.

ESRI does have an editor for OSM, but we don't see many edits using it. Two
of the most popular editors are iD, a browser based editor and JOSM a stand
alone editor written in java. iD does have a nice walk though feature to
help you get started. Both editors are access to all of our imagery.
Besides Bing, we have Digital Globe, Mapbox and ESRI. JOSM has the ability
to load shapefiles which can be used to trace features or copy/paste them
into the OSM layer. Note that we have guidelines that need to be followed
if you wish to import (copy/paste) a large number of items.

Let me know if you have any other questions.

Best,
Clifford

On Wed, Mar 6, 2019 at 8:12 PM Stormwater  wrote:

> Hello,
>
>
>
> My name is Wes Keller. I am the GIS Analyst for the City of Universal
> City. I would like to become active in the group and become a relied upon
> resource for information within Universal City’s Jurisdiction. If you are
> working in the San Antonio, Texas area please let me know so I can become
> acquainted with you. I would like to begin adding my content to Open Street
> Map. My preferred editing environment is ArcGIS Desktop. Any advice or
> assistance would be greatly appreciated.
>
>
>
> Wesley Keller
>
> GIS Analyst
>
> City of Universal City
>
>
>
> stormwa...@uctx.gov
>
> 210-659-0333 x722
>
>
>
> 2150 Universal City Blvd
>
> Universal City, TX 78148
>
> [image: CityLogoSmallJets]
>
>
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Re: [Talk-us] gunnison national forest not being rendered

[Clifford Snow]

I'm not sure it's tagged correctly. boundary:type=protected_area, should be
boundary=protected_area. Although I do see boundary:type in use. See
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:boundary%3Dprotected_area

See https://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/1399218#map=9/47.9660/-121.5472
for a National Forest near me that renders or at least renders the borders.

I'm also looking at tagging of conservation areas. We have 15K protected
areas in the continental US. About 5K are missing the protect_class tag.
Although it might be that they shouldn't be a tagged as
boundary=protected_area. I hope to put together a Maproulette challenge to
work on fixing these.

Best,
Clifford

On Sat, Mar 2, 2019 at 4:08 PM brad  wrote:

> Help me understand why Gunnison NF is not being rendered on the OSM map
> (nor on my mkgmap build).   Right next to it is San Isabel NF,  same tags &
> it shows up as do many other NF.
>
> Relation: Gunnison National Forest (5579230)
> Relation: San Isabel National Forest (396343)
>
> See attached screenshots
>
> Brad
>
>
>
>
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Re: [Talk-us] Road name update challenges

[Clifford Snow]

On Sat, Mar 2, 2019 at 5:27 AM Mike N  wrote:

> On 3/1/2019 12:49 PM, Clifford Snow wrote:
> >
> > One caution - when doing a building/address import a few years ago, we
> > discovered errors in the counties address database. They had different
> > street names from address street names. The street names matched the
> > street signs but the addresses had a different street name. These were
> > reported to the county
>
> Did you find that the addresses tended to be more correct in your
> case?   In the few cases I cross checked against a business mailing
> address, the address seemed to be correct.
>

Yes - the address are a good indicator of street name. They were found
using the JOSM mapcss paint style that colors by the street name.

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Re: [Talk-us] Road name update challenges

[Clifford Snow]

On Fri, Mar 1, 2019 at 7:09 AM Aaron Forsythe  wrote:

> These are all just my opinions, so don't take as fact.  I could be wrong.
>
>
>
> >> We were able to get a local GIS to release data to OSM.  In analyzing
>
> the data, I notice that address tags are much more carefully updated
>
> than road names.   So I could create a local project to correct some
>
> local roads based on corrections from the address data.   I hesitate
>
> because then those changes will be reverted when they don't match TIGER.
>

Having someone "fix" your edits using bad data is a problem. Two examples
come to mind, the first is when someone uses older imagery to align a road.
I've even done that to one of my own edits. The second is when a street
name is added from local knowledge that is different from TIGER. In both
cases, unless the editor is paying attention to the tags, they will likely
just change your edit. What I recommend is to watch edits in your area. I
recommend Simons's Who Did it.
https://simon04.dev.openstreetmap.org/whodidit/ Use the RSS feed to watch
edits in your area.

>
>
> Usually, at least around here, addresses have the correct street names.
> Street signs are sometimes wrong, especially if it will save a few
> dollars.  Quite common for older street signs to leave out spaces in the
> name, leave off the Dr/St/Ave, or leave off East/West/North/South just to
> save money with a shorter sign.
>

One caution - when doing a building/address import a few years ago, we
discovered errors in the counties address database. They had different
street names from address street names. The street names matched the street
signs but the addresses had a different street name. These were reported to
the county


> It seems the whole issue stems from an automatic edit without proper
> integration.
>
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Automated_Edits_code_of_conduct
>

I think it's bigger than just automatic edits. People are trying to improve
the map, but may be caught up by errors introduced from other systems.

FYI - here is my authority list, from best to worst. in numerical order.
1. Local, on the ground knowledge
2. City records
3. County records
4. State records.
99. TIGER

Best,
Clifford


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Re: [Talk-us] Forest Routes

[Clifford Snow]

On Tue, Nov 20, 2018 at 9:50 AM Clifford Snow 
wrote:

>
> On Tue, Nov 20, 2018 at 9:44 AM Martijn van Exel  wrote:
>
>> It is worth noting that the current shape file available from USDA seems
>> to be more comprehensive than the forest service roads layer available:
>> https://data.fs.usda.gov/geodata/edw/datasets.php?dsetCategory=transportation
>>
>>
>> Perhaps the layer was created based on a filtered or older version of
>> this file. I don’t know who maintains it but it may be due for an update.
>>
>
> Martijn,
> I added the USFS roads as an overlay in JOSM sometime back. I'll compare
> it with
> https://data.fs.usda.gov/geodata/edw/datasets.php?dsetCategory=transportation
> and update the background if its more current.
>
> From a quick comparison between Nov 2018 and what's available in JOSM,
there is no discernible difference.  The JOSM version is using March 2018
data from the same source.


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Re: [Talk-us] Forest Routes

[Clifford Snow]

On Tue, Nov 20, 2018 at 9:44 AM Martijn van Exel  wrote:

> It is worth noting that the current shape file available from USDA seems
> to be more comprehensive than the forest service roads layer available:
> https://data.fs.usda.gov/geodata/edw/datasets.php?dsetCategory=transportation
>
>
> Perhaps the layer was created based on a filtered or older version of this
> file. I don’t know who maintains it but it may be due for an update.
>

Martijn,
I added the USFS roads as an overlay in JOSM sometime back. I'll compare it
with
https://data.fs.usda.gov/geodata/edw/datasets.php?dsetCategory=transportation
and update the background if its more current.

BTW - around here they are called forest service roads, aka logging roads,
and believe me we have thousands of them.

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Re: [Talk-us] Strange city boundary: Lee, Illinois

[Clifford Snow]

Yes - a city can cover more than one county in the US. I'm not familiar
with your example, but we have Bothell, WA which is in both King and
Snohomish County.

Best,
Clifford

On Wed, Nov 14, 2018 at 5:47 AM  wrote:

> Hi,
>
> are there cities (admin level 8) in the USA which  part of two counties?
>
> see: https://wambachers-osm.website/images/osm/snaps_2018/lee.png
>
> left: Lee County
>
> right: DeKalb County
>
> there are some more, but i would like to know if that is ok. In Germany
> this is impossible.
>
> Regards
>
> walter/Germany
>
> --
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>
> Admin Boundaries of the World 
> Missing Boundaries
> 
> Emergency Map 
> Postal Code Map (Germany only) 
> Fools (QA for zipcodes in Germany) 
> Postcode Boundaries of Germany
> 
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Re: [Talk-us] JOSM Scripts Plugin

[Clifford Snow]

Mike,
Thanks - I'll have to brush up on my javascript but that isn't a big
hurdle.

Clifford

On Sat, Nov 3, 2018 at 8:21 PM Mike Thompson  wrote:

> Clifford,
>
> Hope these help:
> https://github.com/MikeTho16/JOSM-Scripts
>
> If not, let me know specifically what you are try to do and I can try to
> work up a more pertinent example.
>
> Mike
>
> On Sat, Nov 3, 2018 at 6:28 PM Clifford Snow 
> wrote:
>
>> I'm looking for some example scripts for the JSOM Scripts Plugin. The
>> goal is to fix capitalization problems. The github repository has some
>> example, but with my limited programing skills I'm hoping for something
>> more complete.
>>
>> Thanks in advance,
>> Clifford
>>
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[Talk-us] JOSM Scripts Plugin

[Clifford Snow]

I'm looking for some example scripts for the JSOM Scripts Plugin. The goal
is to fix capitalization problems. The github repository has some example,
but with my limited programing skills I'm hoping for something more
complete.

Thanks in advance,
Clifford

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[Talk-us] Looking for Mappers that are also RV or campers

[Clifford Snow]

We are looking for mappers that are active RV users, especially those that
have used Kampgrounds of America.

We are looking for help with an OSM article. Please contact me off line.

Thanks,
Clifford

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Re: [Talk-us] TIGER place confusion

[Clifford Snow]

Thanks for the overpass query which really helps. As far as I'm concerned,
you can remove the tag.

Clifford

On Thu, Sep 27, 2018 at 7:49 AM Max Erickson  wrote:

> Just comparing relations with place= tags to the corresponding nodes works:
>
> http://overpass-turbo.eu/s/CjI
>
> Obviously not an OSM place=city there.
>
>
> Max
>
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Re: [Talk-us] TIGER place confusion

[Clifford Snow]

Max,
Can you give an example or better yet a overpass query that we can use to
view some in our back yard?

Thanks,
Clifford

On Thu, Sep 27, 2018 at 4:48 AM Max Erickson  wrote:

> Many of the administrative boundaries imported from TIGER have a
> place= tag that reflects the legal type of incorporation of the
> municipality rather than a sensible value for the OSM place tag (which
> would give some hint about the relative prominence of the place).
>
> This confusion has gone under the radar, as openstreetmap-carto
> doesn't render place labels from ways and relations:
>
> https://github.com/gravitystorm/openstreetmap-carto/pull/2816
>
> Deleting the imported place= values (or perhaps moving them to some
> other tag, say something like incorporation=) would directly make the
> data more accurate and improve maps that render place areas without
> accounting for the confusion in the data.
>
> What do people think about deleting (or adjusting) the place tag from
> imported US administrative boundaries?
>
>
> Max
>
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Re: [Talk-us] USPS Post Boxes

[Clifford Snow]

First off, I don't have an opinion on the naming of blue boxes. I'm am
concerned about adding the wikipedia tags. One of the unintended
consequences of adding the wikipedia tag to fast food chains is that
nominatim puts those locations high in the search results. We removed most
of the wikipedia tags to Starbucks locations a few years back. The
consensus at that time was that the wikipedia tag only belonged on the
headquarters location and any store that had a unique wikipedia article.
(Only one did, the first)

My question is, should the wikipedia tag only be placed on their
headquarters locatIon?

Best,
Clifford

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Re: [Talk-us] Food delivery services: Move-fast-and-break-trust

[Clifford Snow]

On Tue, Aug 21, 2018 at 1:24 PM Ian Dees  wrote:

> It'd be great to have smaller, shorter versions that could be handed out
> like business cards to handle this case in particular, where business
> owners are curious and law enforcement or other interested parties might
> express concern.
>

I picked business cards because people are familiar with them, they are
easy to carry and not that expensive.

Having information on both sides, which I don't do, would allow us to
include tips to help owners add info to OSM. Anyone want to take a stab at
creating one?

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Re: [Talk-us] Food delivery services: Move-fast-and-break-trust

[Clifford Snow]

When I'm out taking pictures for later entry into OSM, I bring a bunch of
business cards to hand out. The card has my name, phone number, email and
the OSM website. I do this because I'm hoping to get interested businesses
to add more data to OSM. But giving the staff a card might also lessen
their concerns. And it does help spread the word about OSM.

Clifford



On Tue, Aug 21, 2018 at 9:39 AM Jmapb  wrote:

> Hi USA, just wanted to bring up an issue that I've run into recently
> while mapping businesses in NYC.
>
> Whenever I'm walking through the city, I tend to whip out the phone and
> check for anything missing, incorrect, or incomplete. Often this means
> pausing in front of a restaurant and keying in contact info or opening
> hours. Sometimes I also take pictures with the intention of adding tags
> later.
>
> There have always been a few who treat this sort of thing with suspicion
> -- especially taking pictures. But a couple times lately I've met with
> outright hostility from restaurant staff when taking down their data.
> One owner complained he was sick of "people from websites posting his
> information." Turns out the culprits were food delivery services, who
> had been offering delivery from his place without authorization. I plead
> my innocence, but this guy was in no mood to appreciate the differences
> between a crowdsourced map project and a move-fast-and-break-things
> delivery startup.
>
> I discussed this with a friend of mine who owns a restaurant, and he
> recounted a similar story -- an angry customer calling the restaurant to
> complain about a late delivery. This restaurant doesn't do delivery, and
> has never partnered with any third parties for delivery. But a food
> delivery startup (I'm not naming names... actually I can't even keep
> them straight) apparently scouted their location, imported the menu
> (which changes often and is not posted on the web), and listed the
> restaurant as a delivery client -- all without even informing the
> restaurant, much less attempting to make any sort of agreement. They
> wouldn't even take down the listing when confronted -- figured they
> could just bully their way into a business relationship. And they were
> listing dishes that weren't even on the menu anymore! Though they took
> them all down quickly when the restaurant's lawyer called.
>
> Don't know how common these sort of predatory tactics are outside NYC,
> but fair warning, there may be businesses out there who are no longer
> delighted at the thought of someone "from the internet" taking notice of
> their publicly-posted information.
>
> Happy mapping, Jason
>
>
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Re: [Talk-us] State Open Data

[Clifford Snow]

On Sat, Aug 11, 2018 at 12:01 PM Pine W  wrote:

> I'm interested in this subject. An issue is that the copyright might be
> owned by the government entity that created it, even if the records are
> open for the public. If something is public record in California, does that
> also mean that it's not copyrighted by the government entity that created
> it?
>
> Its my understanding that if the state government has an open data law
similar to the US, then when they release the data it's public domain.
There are exceptions. Sometime they license the data from a company without
have the rights to release it as PD. They also have exceptions for not
releasing data that has personal information. I sat through a talk by
WSDOT. One of the big issues they pressed was to be very careful be for
adding data to the state's open data portal. Once it's out in the open,
they can't get it back.


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Re: [Talk-us] State Open Data

[Clifford Snow]

Adam,
Thanks for adding Vermont.

At some point I'd like to do like you did with surfaces. One of the
problems I run into is that every agency seems to have a different list of
surfaces. We'd should probably try to create a conversion chart to map
different names into OSM surface types.

For example, USFS roads has the following surface types

 AC - ASPHALT

 AGG - CRUSHED AGGREGATE OR GRAVEL

 AGG - LIMESTONE

 AGG - SCORIA

 BST - BITUMINOUS SURFACE TREATMENT

 CSOIL - COMPACTED SOIL

 FSOIL - FROZEN SOIL

 IMP - IMPROVED NATIVE MATERIAL

 NATIVE MATERIAL

 NAT - NATIVE MATERIAL

 OTHER - OTHER

 PCC - PORTLAND CEMENT CONCRETE

 PIT - PIT RUN SHOT ROCK

 P - PAVED

 SOD - GRASS


>From Okanogan county in Washington they have

 D

 d

 null (which has the highest count)

 P

 G

The states metadata can help us build a conversion to OSM surface types;


Clifford




On Wed, Aug 8, 2018 at 7:49 AM Adam Franco  wrote:

> I've added Vermont's center-line
> <http://geodata.vermont.gov/datasets/VTrans::vt-road-centerline> info to
> the spreadsheet. As someone who does a lot of filtering of OSM roads based
> on surface, exposing surface info to a broader group of editors would be a
> fabulous win. Thanks for heading in this direction!
>
> To do my own surface entry I've resorted to side-by side JOSM and QGIS
> windows with the latter showing a color-coded road-centerline file. As can
> be imagined, most people won't go to this effort and hence US road-surface
> data in OSM is pretty patchy to say the least.
>
>
>
>
> On Tue, Aug 7, 2018 at 11:32 PM, Elliott Plack 
> wrote:
>
>> Maryland’s Transportation Basemap is already availability in iD and JOSM
>> as an imagery source. We also have a slew of open datasets including
>> centerline and speed limits. I’ll take a look at the doc and add some.
>> http://data.imap.maryland.gov/datasets?q=transportation
>>
>> Kudos on getting this together!
>> On Tue, Aug 7, 2018 at 23:27 Paul Johnson  wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Tue, Aug 7, 2018 at 9:00 PM, Clifford Snow 
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Ian,
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Tue, Aug 7, 2018 at 9:30 AM Ian Dees  wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Thanks for putting this together, Clifford!
>>>>>
>>>>> I was collecting street centerline data as part of OpenAddresses a
>>>>> while ago here: https://github.com/openaddresses/centerlines
>>>>>
>>>>> I'm happy to add you to this repo if you want to use this repo or feel
>>>>> free to pull from this repo into your spreadsheet.
>>>>>
>>>>> My goal with this was to pull all this data into a single,
>>>>> country-wide layer to map in OSM with. I'm happy to help you down that
>>>>> path, if that's what you're thinking.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> That is exactly my goal - get all of the states with open data into a
>>>> background image that people could use to trace from, much like your TIGER
>>>> 2017 and previous years. My initial attempt will be just centerlines with
>>>> street names. Later we need to add surface and other details.
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> This could present a feedback loop in Oklahoma, since OklaDOT's portal
>>> can use (and in some datasets, does use by default) OSM.
>>> ___
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>>>
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>> http://elliottplack.me
>>
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Re: [Talk-us] State Open Data

[Clifford Snow]

Elliott,
Thanks - I've added Maryland into the spreadsheet.

Clifford

On Tue, Aug 7, 2018 at 9:32 PM Elliott Plack 
wrote:

> Maryland’s Transportation Basemap is already availability in iD and JOSM
> as an imagery source. We also have a slew of open datasets including
> centerline and speed limits. I’ll take a look at the doc and add some.
> http://data.imap.maryland.gov/datasets?q=transportation
>
> Kudos on getting this together!
> On Tue, Aug 7, 2018 at 23:27 Paul Johnson  wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Aug 7, 2018 at 9:00 PM, Clifford Snow 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Ian,
>>>
>>>
>>> On Tue, Aug 7, 2018 at 9:30 AM Ian Dees  wrote:
>>>
>>>> Thanks for putting this together, Clifford!
>>>>
>>>> I was collecting street centerline data as part of OpenAddresses a
>>>> while ago here: https://github.com/openaddresses/centerlines
>>>>
>>>> I'm happy to add you to this repo if you want to use this repo or feel
>>>> free to pull from this repo into your spreadsheet.
>>>>
>>>> My goal with this was to pull all this data into a single, country-wide
>>>> layer to map in OSM with. I'm happy to help you down that path, if that's
>>>> what you're thinking.
>>>>
>>>>
>>> That is exactly my goal - get all of the states with open data into a
>>> background image that people could use to trace from, much like your TIGER
>>> 2017 and previous years. My initial attempt will be just centerlines with
>>> street names. Later we need to add surface and other details.
>>>
>>
>>
>> This could present a feedback loop in Oklahoma, since OklaDOT's portal
>> can use (and in some datasets, does use by default) OSM.
>> ___
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>>
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> http://elliottplack.me
>


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Re: [Talk-us] State Open Data

[Clifford Snow]

Ian,


On Tue, Aug 7, 2018 at 9:30 AM Ian Dees  wrote:

> Thanks for putting this together, Clifford!
>
> I was collecting street centerline data as part of OpenAddresses a while
> ago here: https://github.com/openaddresses/centerlines
>
> I'm happy to add you to this repo if you want to use this repo or feel
> free to pull from this repo into your spreadsheet.
>
> My goal with this was to pull all this data into a single, country-wide
> layer to map in OSM with. I'm happy to help you down that path, if that's
> what you're thinking.
>
>
That is exactly my goal - get all of the states with open data into a
background image that people could use to trace from, much like your TIGER
2017 and previous years. My initial attempt will be just centerlines with
street names. Later we need to add surface and other details.

Clifford
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[Talk-us] State Open Data

[Clifford Snow]

A few months back I made available Washington State Roads background layer
available for use in JOSM and iD. (Shoutout to Mapbox for providing free
hosting of this service.) I would like to add other states but need your
help finding open data suitable for inclusion in OSM.

To help please update this Google Sheet document [1] with the Open Data
information. You'll need to give me your email to allow editing but anyone
should be able to view the information.


[1]
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1exG4LchFlLCn8IAM1Sq1JGo8F6UPSnevksjpQ0Y7tTA/edit?usp=sharing


Thanks,
Clifford

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Re: [Talk-us] Sidewalks in Austin without any tags

[Clifford Snow]

On Wed, Jul 25, 2018 at 3:58 PM Andy Townsend  wrote:

>
>
>
> Do you (or does anyone else on this list) have a direct connection to
> the TaskarCenterAtUW account?  If so it'd be great to let them know that
> people have been trying to get in touch with them, and to get some
> information about the plans to add meaningful tags to the data that's
> been added already).  Obviously in-OSM contact methods exist but if
> someone reading this actually knows them they'd understand the context
> better.
>

I have contacts with the Taskar Center and will contact them. But I believe
Austin is running their own project, not under the direction of the Taskar
Center. I will verify it with them. It may take me a while to get an answer
so please let's not rush to remove anything.

>
> Unfortunately just "more data" is not necessarily an improvement -
> https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/603909001 is an example of something
> that as it currently stands really does add no value. However it's clear
> that the user who added that was aware that there was more to be done -
> they wrote "Will use JOSM to put in the appropriate tags".  It'd be good
> to know if or when they plan to do that, or whether some other approach
> (Maproulette?) might be approriate if they're no longer able to do so
> and need other people to tidy up after them.
>
>
>
I haven't looked at the data in Austin (I've been on the road and don't
have ready access to either time or internet.) So my question is are any of
the ways added not verifiable? Or is the problem that they are not fully
tagged? If the ways are accurate then I don't see a problem. If they are
adding garbage then they should be reverted.  As far as I know we don't
delete objects just because they are incomplete. If the way isn't routable
but is an actual sidewalk/footpath then it's a valid edit.

Best,
Clifford

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Re: [Talk-us] [Imports-us] Importing Addresses in Orange County North Carolina

[Clifford Snow]

On Sat, Jun 23, 2018 at 2:50 PM Greg Morgan  wrote:

>
>
> On Wed, Jun 20, 2018, 2:34 PM Clifford Snow 
> wrote:
>
>> A couple of things  First you have two tags that are not needed,
>> addr:state and  addr:country.
>>
> I have a different opinion on this subject. I always add these two tags.
> We are an international map. If he has the data already, I don't see why
> they shouldn't be added. My view is shaped by living in a border state.
>

Greg - I don't have strong feelings one way or another, but since this is
spatial data, it's easy to figure out the state and country. City not so
much,  Often it's a postal city code even though the location is in
unincorporated areas. But like you I do sometimes look at the tiger tags on
a way to see which county it's in.

Best,
Clifford


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Re: [Talk-us] Slack: Do we need an Alternative (was Planning an import, in Price George...)

[Clifford Snow]

Doug,
Like Martijn said, many of us are on multiple communications forums. I'm on
talk-us (and a bunch of others), IRC, Slack, Reddit and even on various
Meetup Groups. I used to be on Facebook, but just couldn't tolerate FB
attitude towards users privacy.

Slack is available on desktops as a standalone app. They have apps for
Windows, Mac and Linux. A smartphone isn't required.

Slack is to be attractive to a wide number of people. The US Chapter made
the right decision for the US community to adopt it. Slack is helping us
grow the community. That's good. Not everyone want to be on IRC, or Slack
or Mailing Lists, or etc. That's why we have so many choices.

Clifford



On Tue, Jun 12, 2018 at 2:22 PM Doug Hembry  wrote:

> I stand with Greg Morgan and Rihards on this one (and I think, Steve, if
> I remember rightly). I watch my email, and read the messages and digests
> from the talk lists. I'm old-fashioned and don't even use a smart phone
> or any social media (probably the only person in California who
> doesn't). I'd noted what seemed to be a drop-off in talk-us messages,
> and wondered where everyone had gone, but I'm not signing up for Slack
> or any other apps just to keep in touch. If the talk-us community is
> migrating to Slack, then I'll just get used to being out of the loop. A
> pity, but I don't have time to change my habits, and like some other
> correspondents I have a gut suspicion of for-profit corporations.
>
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[Talk-us] Slack: Do we need an Alternative (was Planning an import in Price George...)

[Clifford Snow]

SteveA wrote:

At least once, Clifford invited me to join Slack as well.  However, after
reading Slack's Terms of Service Agreement (a contract of adhesion,
really), I could not and do not abide with the ways which Slack (and other
proprietary, not-open-source/open-data communication platforms) divide our
community into "those who Slack" and "those who don't."  Even as Clifford
has acknowledged this issue in these posts, I feel compelled to speak up
about this again whenever I see this invitation to Slack again and again.

I don't wish to throw rocks at the good process and results which happen
because some of us collaborate on Slack.  I do wish to urge OSM volunteers
to seriously (re-?)consider that there are well-established, perfectly
useful communication methods (email, wiki, talk-us, face-to-face,
meetups/Mapping Parties...) which do not require "shiny apps laden with
hidden, commercial code" that ask us to cloak our communication into the
private realm of a for-profit company.  As an open-source/open-data
project, I remain puzzled why OSM volunteers do this.

Perhaps what I'm suggesting (again?  I seem to recall it has been brought
up before) is that if OSM uses a "live-collaboration communication app"
that we either develop our own or choose some open-source version of one
without onerous License Terms that MANY (not just me) find offensive.

Is that possible?

Thanks for reading.  I mean this in the best interests of OSM longer-term.

SteveA
California
OSM Volunteer since 2009

Steve,
I must admit I like Slack better than some other forms of communications.
For example, I don't participate on any OSM forums. IRC is nice, but the
Slack, as a version of IRC, is just better. Since Slack was introduced to
the community I've notice the talk-us mailing list traffic has slowed and
even more so is the #osm-us IRC channel which for all practical purposes is
dead.

Communications within the community is one of the most important aspects of
what makes our community thrive. We need tools that allow people to be
engaged in discussions and process to be successful. Tools that people want
to use. To me, seeing the number of people that use Slack compared to other
forms of communications, means the community has chosen.

I'm also part of a open source community that uses IRC and mailing lists to
communicate. When Slack was introduced, just like OSM, traffic drop to
nothing on IRC and mainly announcements on the mailing list. Part of that
maybe because people use Slack in their day job.

I don't wouldn't have any objections to another platform with more
agreeable terms of service. But what specifically to Slack's terms is
objectionable?

I'm also interested in how others feel about Slack. Is it good for the
community or should we look elsewhere?

Best,
Clifford
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Re: [Talk-us] Planning an Import in Prince George's County, Maryland

[Clifford Snow]

Gregory,
Any import should start with a review of the Import Guidelines [1] and
discussion with the local community, which you started with your email.
When you create the import page on the wiki, please describe which
attributes from the shapefile you plan to add to OSM and how they map to
OSM tags. We'll want to know how you plan to conflat existing data with the
new data. Ideally, any existing data will be merged with the new data.
Lastly, how will the data be imported. Are you planning on using a Tasking
Manager or a bulk upload (not recommended) to OSM?

If there are any mappers in the area, I would encourage you to contact them
and invite them to participate. An import can be a great way to build a
community.

If you haven't already joined our US Slack community, please sign up at
https://osmus-slack.herokuapp.com/. The community can help you with build
your import plan.

Best,
Clifford



[1] https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Import/Guidelines

On Thu, Jun 7, 2018 at 5:46 AM Mulea, Gregory 
wrote:

> I’m an Intern for the MNCPPC in Maryland and we are interested in
> uploading some of their GIS data into OSM.
>
> The data is open for all of the public to use.
>
> So far we plan on uploading data such as Buildings, POIs, and Parks.  Any
> other suggestions would most likely be available too.
>
>
>
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/M-NCPPC_Planning_Department is the
> initial OSM Wiki Page that I plan on updating as we develop our plan.
>
>
>
> Initially we would like to do a test import of a relatively small shp file
> (Libraries point file) in order to prepare the other and potentially much
> larger files.
>
>
>
> Thanks
>
>
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Re: [Talk-us] Apalachicola National Forest rendering problem

[Clifford Snow]

Brian,
There was a duplicate outer boundary of the large polygon. I found it using
JOSM validator and removed it.

Clifford

On Tue, May 15, 2018 at 6:24 AM Brian May  wrote:

> I fixed up some boundaries for the Apalachicola National Forest
> southwest of Tallahassee and seem to have broken the rendering of the
> forest boundary and I'm not sure why. I didn't change tags, just moved
> ways around, created new nodes, etc. But I did break some multi-polygon
> ways and put them back together again. Can someone experienced with
> multi-polygon relations please take a look?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Brian aka grouper
>
>
>
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Re: [Talk-us] Drop the tiger:reviewed tag from roads

[Clifford Snow]

Just to clarify, I'm not proposing a mechanical edit. I don't think it's
appropriate.

>From reading the responses, most people would prefer to keep the tag
tiger:reviewed. I respect it and will not ask for a change in JOSM.

Clifford






On Fri, May 11, 2018 at 2:15 PM, Wolfgang Zenker 
wrote:

> * Richard Welty  [180511 20:16]:
> > On 5/11/18 2:00 PM, Doug Hembry wrote:
> >> So I cast a vote for keeping it. At least don't mechanically remove
> them
> >> all, everywhere.
>
> > i still use the reviewed tags for guidance as well, and would prefer
> > that they
> > stick around. i remove them when i've reviewed a road carefully (name,
> > connectivity, location, classification, surface.)
>
> same for me; loosing this tag would make it much harder for me to
> keep track of the roads I have already reviewed/fixed and which ones are
> still to do.
>
> Wolfgang
>
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Re: [Talk-us] Drop the tiger:reviewed tag from roads

[Clifford Snow]

Bryan,
There are members of the US community that object to using proprietary apps
such as Slack. I respect their opinion that I used the mailing list to get
a consensus.

I do enjoy Slack, but like forums, thread can be missed, especially as we
build the community on slack with more and more posts.

Hopefully this conversation will give us a clear consensus on tiger:reviewed

Clifford

Sent from my Android phone.

On Fri, May 11, 2018, 9:45 AM Bryan Housel <br...@7thposition.com> wrote:

> I agree it would be great to get rid of `tiger:reviewed`.
> I proposed this for iD 3 years ago but received some pushback:
> https://github.com/openstreetmap/iD/issues/2697
>
> I would be ok if it were removed via a mechanical edit.
>
> As an aside, I think it would be great to move to a GitHub/Slack based
> workflow for mechanical edits and imports so ideas like this don’t get
> lost.
> Even if the broader OSM community wants to keep their discussions on
> wiki/mailinglist, we can change what we do for US-scoped edits to work a
> bit more efficiently.
>
> Thanks Bryan
>
>
> On May 11, 2018, at 12:25 PM, Clifford Snow <cliff...@snowandsnow.us>
> wrote:
>
> The tag, tiger:reviewed that is left over from the 2006/7 import of TIGER
> roads has lost any meaning. For example, look at 196th Avenue Southwest [1]
> in Thurston County WA. It's on version 6 yet still has tiger:reviewed=no.
> Note I picked this street at random from a overpass query [2]. I see this
> tag all the time. It's time to get rid of it. Not through a mechanical
> edit, but by editors making changes to roads.
>
> I'm proposing to open a ticket for JOSM to add this tag to the list of
> discarded tags. I'd like to hear if there are any objects or think this is
> a good idea.
>
> I did learn from Toby Murray this morning that you can add tiger:reviewed
> to the list of discarded tags in JOSM by going to preferences->Advanced
> Preferences and adding tiger:reviewed to tags.discardable. Then just reload
> JOSM for the changed to be active.
>
> [1] http://www.openstreetmap.org/way/173554611
> [2] http://overpass-turbo.eu/s/yJh
>
> Clifford
>
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[Talk-us] Drop the tiger:reviewed tag from roads

[Clifford Snow]

The tag, tiger:reviewed that is left over from the 2006/7 import of TIGER
roads has lost any meaning. For example, look at 196th Avenue Southwest [1]
in Thurston County WA. It's on version 6 yet still has tiger:reviewed=no.
Note I picked this street at random from a overpass query [2]. I see this
tag all the time. It's time to get rid of it. Not through a mechanical
edit, but by editors making changes to roads.

I'm proposing to open a ticket for JOSM to add this tag to the list of
discarded tags. I'd like to hear if there are any objects or think this is
a good idea.

I did learn from Toby Murray this morning that you can add tiger:reviewed
to the list of discarded tags in JOSM by going to preferences->Advanced
Preferences and adding tiger:reviewed to tags.discardable. Then just reload
JOSM for the changed to be active.

[1] http://www.openstreetmap.org/way/173554611
[2] http://overpass-turbo.eu/s/yJh

Clifford

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Re: [Talk-us] Maximum number of tasks on US tasker

[Clifford Snow]

Martijn,
When I looked at the problem of un-reviewed roads in Washington State, I
considered two approaches. First, use a Tasking Manager to break the state
into smaller chunks. Looking at the map of the US, Washington State doesn't
seem all that large. But when you get into breaking the state into 1 mile
squares, you'd need over 70,000 tiles to check. The second approach, one
one I ended up using is to use Maproulette to check just TIGER roads
imported that haven't been touched since. There was still 30,000 ways in
the second group. Note - I didn't look at tiger:reviewed=no since most
people, including me, often forget to either change it to yes or just
delete the tag. I think we should just delete the tag like JOSM currently
does.

The clean up effort is still ongoing.

I have personally cleaned up a handful of counties which seems quicker but
that approach doesn't have any backup measures. Backup measures like,
keeping roads in the database until someone checks that they have fixed it
or it wasn't a problem. I like the systematic approach that Maproulette
offers.

MR3 has a feature that I really like. One of regularly editors in Eastern
Washington wanted to look at just roads around him. MR3 as I understand,
can do that.

Now if some company with large amounts of gpx traces were to give us a
point cloud of gpx points, we could quickly start cleaning up these rural
roads. Hint - Hint - Telenav.

As a interesting bit of information, only one way is left untouched in King
County from the original import - and it looks good.

Martijn - I'm not sure I really answered your query. Let me know if you
need more.


Best,
Clifford


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Re: [Talk-us] [OSM-talk] Undiscussed mass-revert by user Nakaner-repair

[Clifford Snow]

On Fri, Apr 20, 2018 at 9:15 AM, Christoph Hormann  wrote:

> On Friday 20 April 2018, Ian Dees wrote:
> >
> > I'd be interested in seeing all of these reverts reverted (at least
> > in the US) until discussion can take place.
>
> I don't know about these changes or the reverts of them in detail but on
> a general note here:  If mappers find edits they consider
> questionable - either factually or methodologically - and attempts to
> get in contact with the mapper making those edits fail it is commonly
> accepted practice that mappers can revert such changes.  This happens
> every day many times all over the world and is a good way to reduce the
> workload of the DWG by not getting them involved in all the small
> matters mappers can resolve between each other.
>

Nakaner post a changeset comment which impart said:

you seem to be part of a paid/organized/commercial editing activity. We
have been telling your workmates for more than one week that you must add a
note to your profile page at openstreetmap.org which states which
company/organisation you belong to, who pays you for editing and which
software, technology and rules you use to determine which roads you edit.
You can edit the content of your user profile page via your user settings
at openstreetmap.org.


Please add that information and answer all questions before you upload any
further edits to OpenStreetMap! Otherwise I will revert all your edits!

The user in question, a first time editor, added some service roads,
alleys, driveways and business service roads. They were all good. But my
concern is twofold. First the edits all look good. Yes they should have
added service= type, but that's not uncommon with a new mapper. There is no
good reason to revert. Second, as far as I know the Directed Edits Policy
has not been approved. Nakaner is attempting to enforce a policy before it
become a policy.


> If what the discussion on the German forum indicates is accurate, i.e.
> that there is a group of mappers performing organized edits which
> reject attempts to contact them and evade blocks established to ensure
> they do not continue without getting in contact with the community by
> creating sockpuppet accounts, i am pretty sure the local US community
> does not want this to continue in their domain and how to best
> accompish that would be a good subject of discussion.
>

None of us like users that don't respond to changeset comments, especially
when we know they are paid mappers. I mostly think of the SEO firms
dropping nodes with incomplete and often wrong information. Our efforts to
stop those have failed. The most infamous, what I called the "Updated" SEO,
uses a different user name with every edit. They may be doing this to avoid
disruption by users and especially DWG.   I think it is time for a new
approach.

Clifford
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Re: [Talk-us] Help fight advertising

[Clifford Snow]

On Fri, Mar 2, 2018 at 3:35 PM, Mike N  wrote:

> On 3/2/2018 4:11 PM, Dale Puch wrote:
>
>> It seems like encouraging SEO firms to operate within OSM guidelines by
>> providing an easy way to add the OSM appropriate information in bulk (with
>> data validation) in one step would be a good thing.  Easier to contact,
>> manage and block or revert as needed.
>>
>
>   This is a great idea; the biggest problem is the GeoCoder for use where
> all addresses haven't yet been entered into OSM.
>
> We would need terms and conditions that the vendor agree too, the geocoder
would be one, agreeing that the data they are uploading would licensed ODbL
is another.



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Re: [Talk-us] Help fight advertising

[Clifford Snow]

Sorry for the late posting - I've been working on another project for the
past few days.

Frederik wrote "You will be surprised about the breadth of marketing blurb
that has already crept into OSM."

Unfortunately no, I'm not surprised. Marketing is a very competitive world.
SEO firms are using every trick in the dictionary to improve their page
ranking. Thanks to the volunteers that maintain our website(s), OSM goes to
great pains to insure that every URL we display on our website is followed
by a nofollow reference tag. And they have been doing this for years. For
those that aren't aware, it's believed that links to your business from
authoritative websites increases brings your website closer to the top of
searches. OSM.org has a really high authority rating. But now it seems that
the nofollow reference tag isn't enough. According to one of the top SEO
firms in the US, believe that search engines now look to see if they are on
Bing, Yahoo, Google, etc. They believe this not because the big search
companies publish this information but from reverse engineering the factors
to contribute to ranking.

To me that leaves us with a couple of choices. One, we continue to develop
more sophisticated tools to identify and revert the spam or two, we develop
tools to help SEO firms add data to OSM in a manner acceptable to us.  Or
maybe some of both. Jason Remillard post has some positive recommendation
on how to do the first. We should listen to him. One recommendation - make
what we do very public. If SEO firms realize that they are wasting money
they may stop. Remember they are very good at figuring out how to
manipulate search engines. If they can do that, they can figure out how to
better mask their edits.

As for the second suggestion, make it easier for SEO firms to add data, we
could create a policy and process to accept imports from SEO firms. The
other web map sites like Google, Bing, Apple etc. all have a process for
bulk loading data. (And none are the same.) We could do something similar.
A policy and specialized import guidelines would need to be created.

Creating a bulk loading policy doesn't mean we don't follow Jason's
recommendation for those that don't follow our policy.

One of my beliefs from looking at SEO spam is that I believe the work is
likely being outsourced. Two many similarities exist that to me suggest
these are coming from a common source.  The user name, the changeset
comments, etc. I did ask Margaret Seksinski with Brandity if she could help
us learn who might be behind this spam. I have yet to hear from her.
Unfortunately, it appears Brandify doesn't want to be a part of the
community, just use us for their gains.

Frederik suggested we contact the user. I've sent numerous message and have
not only not had any response, but have yet to see any change in their
behavior. Frankly it's a waste of my time anymore to attempt to contact
them.

As much as I hate the spam in the description tag (should rename it spam=*)
it is helpful in attempting to determine the correct tags. After which,
it's no longer useful and can be deleted.

Finally let's not lump all SEO firms together. The Laua Group is doing a
great job for Hilton Hotels. We should encourage more firms to be good
community members.

Best,
Clifford



On Thu, Mar 1, 2018 at 3:21 PM, Ian Dees <ian.d...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi Frederik,
>
> I disagree that this is a "fight". Have we attempted to reach out to the
> people running this operation? Have we asked the Operations team to
> correlate IP address for the accounts that are created and used once? Have
> we looked at what email addresses they use when signing up for clues? It
> would be great to have these folks contributing the non-advertising parts
> in a manner consistent with the rest of the community, and perhaps they'd
> be willing to adjust their practices if we are able to ask them.
>
> Also, your characterization of US mappers being more lax about this is a
> little insulting. OpenStreetMappers in the US spend lots of time looking
> for this kind of stuff and revert some of the most obvious stuff. Clifford
> Snow, for example, has spent a lot of time researching who might be behind
> these edits. I look forward to his feedback here, too.
>
> I appreciate the time you've spent putting together this list of nodes.
> I'll take a look at some of them, and maybe we can load them into
> MapRoulette to help work through the list?
>
> -Ian
>
> On Thu, Mar 1, 2018 at 4:44 PM, Frederik Ramm <frede...@remote.org> wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> over the past year or so, I have recreationally hunted down advertising
>> on OSM and removed it. In many cases it's a clear-cut situation (there
>> were cases where advertising borders on vandalism, with whole streets
>> being named after a business), but there have also been situations where
>> a local

[Talk-us] Satus CDP

[Clifford Snow]

In the middle of the Yakama Nation Indian Reservation sits Satus [1] that
as far as I know only exists in some Census bureaucrat world. Asking around
here I haven't found anyone familiar with the area. Wikipedia [2] doesn't
help much either.

I'd like to remove it from OSM. What reasonable checks do I need to do
before deleting it. Or do they belong in OSM and I should leave it alone.

I should add that the reason I want to delete it is because currently
shares a boundary with the Yakama Nation. The boundary needs updating.


[1] https://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/237292#map=11/46.2322/-120.1180
[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/en:Satus,%20Washington?uselang=en-US

Thanks,
Clifford

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Re: [Talk-us] Rural US: Correcting Original TIGER Imported Ways

[Clifford Snow]

On Sun, Feb 25, 2018 at 6:14 PM, Nick Hocking 
wrote:
>
>
> Given that the *vast* majority of these (with no name) are completely
> fictional, and even those that aren't, are so out of position and so
> wrongly connected as to render them worse than useless, I believe that
> deletion is the only sensible option.
>

No doubt that way too many highway=residential are fictional, but there are
a number of valid, just never touched ways. Of the ones that are valid they
often need alignment.


Working on a Maproulette Challenge[1] for Washington state here are my
findings so far:
 1. Most of the old logging roads were entered as highway=residential. Even
though I've gotten some pushback, I mostly delete them. If the road looks
like it's a main forest service road, I convert it to either unclassified
or service.

  2. These highway=residential connect to state highways and tertiary roads
that need significant alignment to imagery. Just delete the old data would
still leave hundred of valid roads mis-aligned.

  3. Next to old logging roads, are ways that should be driveways or
service ways. These are easy to fix.

  4. Occasionally there are valid short segments of these original ways.
For those I remove the review=no tag.

  5. Cleaning up Washington State is a long term process. So far about 3%
have been cleared.

One of the positive outcomes is I've learned how to run a geoserver to
serve open data [2] from the state to aid in the cleanup. Ian Dees has
offered to help me migrate off my home server to the US Chapter's account
on Mapbox. The state data far exceeds what's in TIGER. If you are working
in Washington, please do not rely on any TIGER overlays. Simply put, its
crap.

The cleanup effort is a lot of work. I'm always trying to encourage local
mappers to get involve. It is work that is needs to be done to improve the
quality of OSM in the States. I encourage you to work on your state.

Nick - if you do decide to just delete the ways, I would recommend first
communicating with the community on your plans. Your plans should include
how you plan to repair broken routes in a timely manner.


[1] http://maproulette.org/map/2871
[2]
http://tiles.snowandsnow.us/geoserver/gwc/service/tms/1.0.0/WashingtonRoads:all_wash_roads/{zoom}/{x}/{-y}.png

Clifford

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Re: [Talk-us] Rural US: Correcting Original TIGER Imported Ways

[Clifford Snow]

Andy - I've gotten a small server up with just road names, but lacking
other attributes like surface and speed. I'd like to take you up on your
offer with help, with help on styling. Can I steal your road styles? BTW -
I can't see the difference between a plain residential and a unpaved
residential. Unclassified stands right out, but not residential.

Clifford

On Mon, Feb 19, 2018 at 9:00 AM, Andy Townsend  wrote:

> On 19/02/2018 15:24, Dave Mansfield wrote:
>
>> I agree. To me having paved and unpaved show on the osm.org default
>> render would be the biggest improvement to OSM I can think of.
>>
>>
> If anyone wants any help setting up a server to experiment with options
> for rendering "unpaved" let me know.  I've done similar things - surface is
> a factor in rendering of the style at https://map.atownsend.org.uk/m
> aps/map/map.html#zoom=16=-24.99447=135.03725 for example.
>
> Best Regards,
>
> Andy
>
>
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Re: [Talk-us] Rural US: Correcting Original TIGER Imported Ways

[Clifford Snow]

>
>
>
> I've done a fair amount of TIGER touch-up in Michigan, but there's still a
> lot of work left to be done, and this looks like a great way to get a
> handle on it. One issue: Due to the automated name expansion that was done
> on untouched TIGER ways a few years ago (which I think only affected roads
> in the eastern US?) a lot of these ways have bot-mode as their most recent
> user, rather than DaveHansenTiger. (1)
>
> The catch is that sometimes the name expansion changed the name after a
> human mapper had edited the way, so it wouldn't always be valid right to
> include ways where bot-mode is the most recent editor. (2) I think if
> bot-mode is the most recent editor and the way has only two versions, then
> it should be in effect an untouched TIGER way, but I'm not sure how to get
> Overpass-turbo to pull that info out.
>
> Any suggestions?
>

Running the overpass query looking for user DaveHansenTiger produced around
30mb of data. That's more than enough to keep everyone busy for a while.
Overpass-turbo query looking for user bot-mode produced over 100mb of data.
It would need to be refined some. As you suggest, looking only at version 2
might help but I'm not sure you can do that in overpass.

There is another way to tackle the problem, one that I've used as well.
Work on one county at a time. With 83 counties in Michigan the size of each
county should be reasonable for one or two people to tackle. You could
either break the county into small chucks using a Tasking Manager or just
work on one county by your self. JOSM search capabilities mirror overpass
so you can search for user and version.

Clifford

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Re: [Talk-us] Rural US: Correcting Original TIGER Imported Ways

[Clifford Snow]

On Mon, Feb 12, 2018 at 9:55 AM, Kevin Broderick 
wrote:

> Please, please, please don't convert rural roads to tracks based on
> imagery alone unless it's incredibly clear (and that would exclude anything
> with forest cover).
>
> While many of them should definitely be unclassified, not residential,
> downgrading the main rural routes to tracks doesn't match local usage nor
> the functional topology of the road network in such places. There are a lot
> of USFS and BLM roads around here that are the only way to access
> significant areas, that commonly see normal passenger-car traffic and that
> can be traveled at reasonable speed in a sedan (or at 30+ MPH with a little
> ground clearance and driving skill),. Having these differentiated from true
> tracks (where even a stock 4x4 is likely going to be operating at 15 MPH or
> less) is incredibly helpful for routing and visual use of the map, and it's
> a lot easier to recognize what I'd call "areas of questionable data" when
> they haven't been aggressively armchair-mapped. Also, the smoothness key is
> really helpful for tracks and impossible to map from orthoimagery.
>

Kevin,
I live next door to forested land. I can see forest service roads from my
house, especially after a clear cut operation.  Most are their to aid in
harvesting operations. Once the work is done, the road is unmaintained.
Washington State, particularly western Washington State are full of these
artifacts from the TIGER import. These ways have long since disappeared
from Census TIGER data.  If they belong in OSM, someone should map them.
Let's not leave in these potentially dangerous ways only because they might
be real.   There are a couple of good sources for better data, first the
2017 TIGER layer can help identify if the road is in someone's database. If
its in TIGER, then I'd leave it in OSM. The US Forest Service layer is
another good source. But like Washington State's DNR data, much of it's
unknown.  Of the 925,000 roads in the DNR's database, 84% are in unknown
status. Only 12% are active, and those include state highways. The rest are
abandoned, decommissioned, orphaned, close or not yet built. I did talk to
the DNR about using their data, but they cautioned me against it for the
same reason I'm trying to clean up the old TIGER data - the data is
garbage. If the state doesn't know, then I doubt the USFS is any better.

>
> Even with local knowledge, it's tough to look at some of the local unpaved
> roads on imagery and identify which sections are car-friendly and which
> aren't (and it's often different for different sections of the same road,
> e.g. Crooked Creek Rd. that goes from Carbon County, Wyoming into Carbon
> County, Montana in the Pryor Mountains is arguably a track where it's on
> BLM land and is definitively a good gravel road through USFS land). Most of
> the rest of the roads in the Pryors are either questionable on the track vs
> road border or very clearly tracks. Right now, many are still labeled as
> roads, which is obviously wrong, but downgrading piecemeal without being
> able to correctly classify the whole area makes it much harder to glance at
> the GPS screen and say, "OK, I need to take this with a shaker of salt,
> there's no way there are that many good roads in there"; downgrading some
> but not all would give a false impression of data precision.
>

How does leaving them in help?

>
> Yes, it's unfortunate when people decide to blindly follow their GPS or
> online mapping route without applying common sense, but it's better to have
> data that is obviously low-precision (at least to anyone used to traveling
> in such areas) instead of giving the false impression of higher precision
> than is actually present. It's also misleading if the whole road is marked
> as a track when several (or more) miles are maintained gravel and it then
> turns into a 4x4 track, as someone can easily start driving up the
> maintained gravel, think "Oh, this is what they mean by track—I can drive
> this, no problem" and then end up way up an effective dead end that
> connects through only on a dirt bike, ATV, or 4x4.
>




>
> I'd agree 100% that it would be great to have more mappers in rural areas,
> and I wish I had the time to deal with the data s***show in some of the
> more-remote places around here. I've updated a few things that I've driven
> and could remember how good (or bad) the road was, but unless I remember to
> take georeferenced photos or notes, it can be really hard to remember what
> was passenger-car friendly vs. what was something that I'd prefer to ride
> along in someone else's Subaru for. The problem isn't unique to OSM; none
> of the printed maps I've found are particularly great on the same roads
> (including both Delorme Gazetteers and Benchmark Atlases).
>

The long term fix is more mappers, especially rural, hunters, hikers,
off-road bikers, etc.


> @osm_seattle
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[Talk-us] Rural US: Correcting Original TIGER Imported Ways

[Clifford Snow]

How many of the TIGER imported streets are still untouched? Looking at
typical urban area with a high number of OSM contributors the your answer
might be very few. Seattle for example only has one street left, and
unnamed street in the far south of Seattle. King County, just under 6,000
sq km, has 292 untouched ways. Extrapolating the results to Washington
State, with 39 counties, you expect to see somewhere around 11,000
untouched ways. It's almost three times that number.

Washington State today has over 30,000 untouched highway=residential, far
more than what you would might expect from looking at King County. Many of
the untouched ways are located in areas known for timber harvest, most
likely forest service roads (at best highway=unclassified, or
highway=tracks, or not even there) and many others are service roads to
farms and homes.

Because King County has by far the largest population of active mappers, it
has touched just about every street in the county. Even the more remote
areas of eastern King County which is popular with hikers.

Utah, a far less populated state has over 7,500 untouched ways. (But an
absolutely gorgeous state, second only to Washington State )

Western states may be more susceptible because of the number of forest
service roads. All states likely have the problem of ways classified as
residential when they should be service roads.

Martijn van Exel and I have created a couple of Maproulette tasks to fix
these ways. It's dangerous to leave them. Having a way classified as
residential when they are likely 4WD tracks in the mountain isn't safe. We
don't want some unsuspecting family out on a Sunday drive to get stranded.
If you do work on the tasks be careful not to just delete ways in the
forest as I was reminded recently. They may be used by hikers and hunters.
Correct the highway classification and align the with the imagery. Consider
using Strava heatmaps to assist tracing the ways.

If you want to help out, jump on one of the tasks below.
Utah: http://maproulette.org/mr3/challenge/2867 (Your chance to try the
beta version of Maproulette 3)
Washington: http://maproulette.org/map/2871 (It doesn't show up when
searching for challenges for reasons that I can't explain)

Does your state have a problem? Run the following overpass query to find
out:
https://overpass-turbo.eu/s/w74 - just replace "Washington"  Need help
creating a Maproulette Challenge - just ask.

There is one other way to help in a big way. Recruit mappers in rural
areas. Have recommendations on who to target and how to get in touch -
share them. Have some success stories, tell us how you accomplished it.

Best,
Clifford



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Re: [Talk-us] Looking for GPS with voice annotation?

[Clifford Snow]

The android app OSMTracker has that feature beside being able to take
pictures all with a gpx track.

On Sat, Feb 10, 2018 at 7:05 AM, Steve Friedl  wrote:

> Happy Saturday, all,
>
> I have a Garmin GPSmap 64st unit that does a fine job of recording tracks,
> but I’m looking to do foot surveys of house numbers in an area, and for
> that I’m hoping to find something that has both GPS and audio recording.
>
> Proposed use case is walking along a sidewalk and pressing a button to
> mark a GPS location, then quietly speak the house number.  I’d use some
> kind of playback in JOSM to enter all this data.
>
> I've tried using a standalone audio recorder, but it's way too easy to get
> out of sync with the waypoints. Actually *entering* house numbers (in Go
> Map!! on my iPhone would take too long and attract way too much attention.
>
> Rafts of google and bingle searches have brought up nothing except how to
> spy on my spouse with a covert GPS audio recorder: that’s not what I’m
> looking for 
>
> I can’t be the first to want this: anybody seen such a thing?
>
> Steve
>
> ---
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> st...@unixwiz.net | Southern California | Windows Guy |  unixwiz.net
>
>
>
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Re: [Talk-us] pokemon go related vandalism in asheville, north carolina

[Clifford Snow]

No problem. We need to rid OSM of vandalism. Hopefully more people will
start watching edits in their areas. I watch new users in Washington State
and catch a few that way.

I do believe that Pokemon players can become valued contributors.

On Fri, Dec 15, 2017 at 3:12 PM, Rihards <ric...@nakts.net> wrote:

> On 2017.12.16. 01:00, Clifford Snow wrote:
> > They were definitely vandalism. I removed them.
>
> thank you for the quick help. the user is somewhat likely to continue in
> this style, possibly by creating more accounts.
>
> not sure whether there is an easy way to monitor for suspicious edits in
> that area, although i've heard that osmcha pokemon go filter is helpful.
>
> > On Fri, Dec 15, 2017 at 12:53 PM, Rihards <ric...@nakts.net
> > <mailto:ric...@nakts.net>> wrote:
> >
> > here's some pokemon go related vandalism in asheville, north
> carolina.
> > compare the mapped park/water features with the available imagery.
> >
> > could somebody more or less local check this please ?
> >
> > http://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=19/35.46124/-82.57407
> > <http://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=19/35.46124/-82.57407>
> > http://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=18/35.46449/-82.57485
> > <http://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=18/35.46449/-82.57485>
> > --
> >  Rihards--
>  Rihards
>



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Re: [Talk-us] pokemon go related vandalism in asheville, north carolina

[Clifford Snow]

They were definitely vandalism. I removed them.

On Fri, Dec 15, 2017 at 12:53 PM, Rihards  wrote:

> here's some pokemon go related vandalism in asheville, north carolina.
> compare the mapped park/water features with the available imagery.
>
> could somebody more or less local check this please ?
>
> http://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=19/35.46124/-82.57407
> http://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=18/35.46449/-82.57485
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Re: [Talk-us] Coolidge Corner, Brookline, MA has wrong zip code

[Clifford Snow]

Nominatim should return the correct results now.

Problem that Max Erickson discovered was an incomplete edit in Boston that
caused the problem. By adding a tag to the Boston node to describe the
feature, resulted in Nominatim returning the correct results.

Clifford

On Sun, Nov 19, 2017 at 11:34 AM, Clifford Snow <cliff...@snowandsnow.us>
wrote:

> I just asked about nominatim on the IRC
>
> On Sun, Nov 19, 2017 at 11:30 AM, Max Erickson <maxerick...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Nominatim calculates 02118:
>>
>> http://nominatim.openstreetmap.org/details.php?place_id=498867
>>
>> Most of the data seems to have the correct addr:postcode:
>>
>> http://overpass-turbo.eu/s/t5e
>>
>> (The query includes postal_code but there aren't any in the data)
>>
>> So what is Nominatim looking at to come up with the calculated value?
>> I think the next thing to check would be boundaries enclosing
>> Brookline, not sure if that is how nominatim works though.
>>
>> Max
>>
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>
>
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Re: [Talk-us] Coolidge Corner, Brookline, MA has wrong zip code

[Clifford Snow]

The Coolidge Corner hamlet tag does not include a zip code. Why do you
think it was changed? Neither Coolidge Corner [1]  nor Brookline [2] admin
tags have zip codes that I can see.

[1]  http://www.openstreetmap.org/node/158823507
[2] http://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/2306361

Best,
Clifford

On Sun, Nov 19, 2017 at 10:07 AM, Andre Robatino  wrote:

> Until recently, I believe Coolidge Corner, Brookline, MA was assigned
> the zip code 02446, which should be the correct zip, but recently
> changed to 02118, which is for Boston. Could someone check if there was
> a broken edit recently? Thanks. (I'm not qualified to fix such a broken
> edit, and I'm not sure even how to search for it, sorry.)
>
>
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Re: [Talk-us] Comparing Tiger 2017 dataset with OSM in a automatedway.

[Clifford Snow]

You had me all excited to see Washington in your list, turns out it's DC. I
am impressed with the quality of work the locals are doing. Very few ways
in your extract.

Do you have your process document anywhere so we can reproduce the results
for other areas?

Clifford

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Re: [Talk-us] Comparing Tiger 2017 dataset with OSM in a automatedway.

[Clifford Snow]

Washington State just completed a aerial imagery program this spring, a
leaf-off program. It was funded by individual sources so the rasters aren't
available. Fortunately, many of the counties have open data with road
centerlines.

Clifford
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Re: [Talk-us] Low-quality NHD imports

[Clifford Snow]

On Mon, Oct 16, 2017 at 3:56 PM, Wolfgang Zenker 
wrote:

>
> the problem here is that at least those NHD imports I have seen in
> Montana have only some of the existing streams. I don't know if this is
> because NHD does not have more or because the import used not all
> available streams. "Existing streams" here means both streams seen on
> USGS Topo maps and stream beds seen on imagery.
>
>
Wolfgang,
Not sure how the NHD data for Montana got into OSM. In my own county in
Washington, it's far from complete, at least compared to NHD data. I've
been slowly adding them by tracing in streams from current, and much better
resolution NHD data and aerial imagery. My county is relatively small,
especially to Montana. It usually takes me two or three days to drive from
west to east. I can be out of my county in 3 hours. Of course in Montana,
it's mostly the foothills and mountain ranges that have the bulk of the
steams to edit.

Maybe we can get someone to host NHD data for others to trace in. If anyone
is reading this and is willing to host the data, I'm willing to help with
the design and conversions.

BTW - I lived in Montana for a number of years and will be back there after
the State of the Map US conference to do some hiking and sightseeing. I
remember fishing in the Bitterroot. Nothing like fresh caught trout. It's
one of the nicest states to visit. (Winters can be miserable.)

Clifford
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Re: [Talk-us] Low-quality NHD imports

[Clifford Snow]

On Fri, Oct 13, 2017 at 10:34 AM, Christoph Hormann  wrote:

> On Friday 13 October 2017, Kevin Kenny wrote:
> >
> > I remain unconvinced that importing or not importing has had any
> > significant impact on whether people improve the map manually.
>
>
> There are a number of possible measures that could be considered for
> improving old NHD imports:
>
> * removal of unnecessary tags to reduce the baggage mappers would have
> to deal with when working on the data.
> * removal of small unnamed streams which are not necessary for the
> overall river network connectivity in areas where the geometric
> accuracy is poor by current standards (and it is therefore usually
> easier for mappers to newly trace those streams instead of trying to
> improve the inaccurate data)
>


Unnamed streams are helpful to people hiking in the forest areas by giving
a landmark for navigation. From areas I'm familiar with, there are
thousands of unnamed streams. They are unnamed because civilization just
hasn't reached it. For example, we have Logan Creek nearby. If it was in a
national forest it would most likely be unnamed.


* creating maproulette challenges for fixing inaccurate waterway
> classifications - in particular waterways tagged 'waterway=stream' but
> with a name containing 'Creek' or 'River' will often qualify as
> waterway=river.  Same for artificial waterways with 'waterway=ditch'
> but names containing 'Canal' or ther other way round.
>

When I see creek in the name, it implies stream, at least in areas I'm
familiar with, then again that's where I usually map. I'm not sure where
you are from but I never consider telling you how to classify something
just by the name. A Maproulette could be handy if we had NHD classification
differences between what't tagged in OSM and NHD.

* creating maproulette challenges for unconnected waterways.
>

+1


> * adding missing 'intermittent=yes' to waterways in imports where this
> was not properly set based on the feature codes.
>

+1


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Re: [Talk-us] Low-quality NHD imports

[Clifford Snow]

I live in the west coast of the US where manually surveying waterways is
not only difficult, but almost impossible. I can't quantify how much as
been cleaned up, but I do know of efforts to fix problems. For example,
most of the waterways in the Olympic Peninsula were reversed. That's been
fix. (I did a few, but another mapper did just about everything else.) I
regularly improve waterways and waterbodies around me. Just recently I
added names to lakes and lagoons in Island County.

The difficulty in physically mapping waterways is so expensive that our
state and counties have dropped most efforts to map them, instead they use
NHD data. The counties do mapping of salmon stream but doing so requires
hiring companies to fly drones equipped with LIDAR to map the stream. My
own county is even looking at OSM data because we have been improving the
waterways from imagery.

Frederik, I'm not sure what you are suggesting. Too many tags on NHD
imported data, that we should import data, or not enough love is being
given to streams and lakes? I certainly hope you are not suggesting we
revert all the steams and waterbodies.

One study on imports is inciteful, but hardly the last word. I hope to
discuss the report with the author later this month. I have some questions
about his findings and how much we can infer from them.

Best,
Clifford


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Re: [Talk-us] Texas - redacted roads.

[Clifford Snow]

On Thu, Oct 12, 2017 at 3:15 PM, Nick Hocking 
wrote:

> Nathan wrote
>
>
> has the road listed as REED WILL and with a type of DR.  I've been told
> that this is an acceptable source or road names,
>
>
> Maybe somebody could drive past this road and report back what the actual
> street signs do say. If they do say "Reed Will" then I will try to contact
> the Austin authorities to clarify the situation.
>

Nathan,
I haven't been following this discussion closely. Looking at the data from
Austin, the road should be name Reed Will Drive. The pre_dir and pre_type
are null. Plus the full_name is shown as Reed Will Dr.

Let me apologize in advance if I misunderstood your question.

Clifford


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Re: [Talk-us] Tampa/Clearwater Building Import to aid in Irma Recovery Efforts

[Clifford Snow]

Frederik - I'll attempt to answer your questions below. This is part of the
effort to help in recovery efforts for hurricane Harvey and Irma.  My tasks
are using the Microsoft provided building footprints to hard hit areas.
There are two separate, but with common individuals involved. The US
community is working on tasks in the US while HOT OSM is working on the
Caribbean Island recovery efforts.

On Thu, Sep 7, 2017 at 12:50 AM, Frederik Ramm  wrote:

>
>
> could you share some thoughts about your general process with these
> imports? I notice that you seem to be working on a lot of them. - Have
> you forgotten to raise Tampa/Clearwater on imports@ or was the Corpus
> Christi one assumed to be a kind of template for all Microsoft building
> footprint imports?
>

I wanted to get the word out to the US community first. By now I expected
to have it posted to the import list, but i'm having problems with my cloud
storage.

>
> I'm unclear about the status. Your posting simply says "the wiki page
> for the import is available". What does that mean? The wiki page for
> Corpus Christi says "Pending acceptance", the "stats" tab on
> http://tasks.openstreetmap.us/project/118 says "0% complete" yet the
> "activity" tab says "Glassman marked #233 as done about 6 hours ago".
> Was that a test edit, or is the import already started?
>

Task 233 was just a small test. ( and I forgot to use my import account)
 This task has relatively low priority since the major flooding was in
areas east of Corpus Christi. The 0% is just a rounding error. One of a few
thousand tasks have been completed.  I've updated the wiki page to remove
the pending acceptance.

>
> Do you have plans to prepare further regions for imports? Since you're
> not local to the areas in question (would it be fair to say you're on
> the other end of the country?), do you undertake any efforts to enlist
> local mappers besides posting on talk-us?
>

Yes we want local mappers involved. To your point, yes i'm far removed from
Florida. But I've been fortunate to have spend quite abit of time in the
state. Not only my travels for business but close relatives living
throughout the state. I even used to host a conference just outside of
Clearwater.

>
> Do you have any statistics about who the participants in these imports
> are? As you know, the reason we're doing these "community imports" is
> that we hope to bring local knowledge to the table; do wo know if this
> works, or is it the same people (potentially from the other end of the
> country) that perform the majority of import tasks on each?
>

I can't answer that question unfortunately. Some of the mappers I know to
be very experienced and others less so. Where they are located and what
local knowledge they have is not information that I have access to. We have
a number of people volunteering to help with these tasks. Building imports
are lower priority task. Getting roads updated and working in hard hit
areas are high on our priority list. Texas is an interesting state - not
much open data and a government that likes to cut corners in my opinion.
What government data is available to help recovery teams is an unknown. We
have put out a call for locals to help with specific tasks, but I'm not
actively involved with those efforts.

>
> I'd also be interested in how long it takes for these imports to
> complete; obviously if we should notice that people add 10k buildings in
> an hour we must assume that the necessary diligence was not applied. --
> I know that when HOT apply their tasking manager they often have a step
> where a second person verifies the data added (or maybe just spot-checks
> it). Is that a feature that the imports you run also have? The wiki page
> for Corpus Christy says "QA: Validation: Use of validation tools in the
> Tasking Manager process", but I assume that just refers to usual
> automatic checks done by JOSM, not a second person inspecting the result?
>

The US Tasking Manager is the same version 2 of HOT's Tasking Manager which
includes a second person's validation step. It's one of the great features
of TM.  If you look at the tasks that are near completion, you can see that
work is being validated.



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[Talk-us] Tampa/Clearwater Building Import to aid in Irma Recovery Efforts

[Clifford Snow]

The Tampa/Clearwater building import [1] wiki page is available. Basically
this import is to add building outlines provided by Microsoft [2] to aid in
Irma Recovery efforts. It will use the Tasking Manager for the import
process.

The import, like the Corpus Christi import, requires JOSM. For people
familiar with JOSM, this is a fairly easy import.

I expect to have the Project available shortly.


[1] https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tampa,_Florida_Building_Import
[2] https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Microsoft_Building_Footprint_Data

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[Talk-us] Task Manager Projects for Hurricane Harvey

[Clifford Snow]

There are six projects in the US Tasking Manager that need help. Consider
spending some time helping out.

1. http://tasks.openstreetmap.us/project/114 Addicks Reservoir North
2. http://tasks.openstreetmap.us/project/109 Crosby Tx home, buildings and
Infrastructure
3. http://tasks.openstreetmap.us/project/106 Manchester TX Homes and
Buildings
4. http://tasks.openstreetmap.us/project/105 Dickinson TX Buildings
5. http://tasks.openstreetmap.us/project/104 TIGER Clean up
6. http://tasks.openstreetmap.us/project/118 Corpus Christi Building Import




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Re: [Talk-us] Proposed import of building footprints for Hartford, CT

[Clifford Snow]

On Mon, Sep 4, 2017 at 6:59 PM, William Theaker 
wrote:

>
> I'm planning on importing building footprints and address points from the
> City of Hartford's open data portal:
> http://gisdata.hartford.gov
>
> The data is CC-BY and I'm working on getting a waiver from the City of
> Hartford.
>
> I've documented my import plan here:
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Hartford_Import
>
> I started out editing OSM by tracing buildings in the Hartford area almost
> a decade ago and I'm excited to import this high quality data.
>
> Any feedback or offers to collaborate on this import would be greatly
> appreciated.
>
>
> William,
This looks like a fun project. Hopefully you can find others in the area
that would like to help out. Please join us on Slack [1] to help discuss
the import.

You might look into  https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/OSM_Conflator to
see if it will help with existing buildings.

Can you explain how the shapefiles will be converted to OSM, along with the
tags? For example, if you are Paul Norman osm2ogr.py script to convert from
shapefile to osm, please post the relevant part of the translation script.

Also, when you get there, can you upload some sample data for us to review.

[1] https://osmus-slack.herokuapp.com/

Good luck,
Clifford



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[Talk-us] Corpus Christi Building Import to aid in Harvey Recovery

[Clifford Snow]

The Corpus Christi building import [1] wiki page is available. Basically
this import is to add building outlines provided by Microsoft [1] to aid in
Harvey Recovery efforts. It uses the OSM US Task Manager with project 118
to facilitate the import.


[1] https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Corpus_christi_import
[2] https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Microsoft_Building_Footprint_Data

Best,
Clifford Snow

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Re: [Talk-us] TIGER fixup for Hurricane Harvey potential impact areas

[Clifford Snow]

Brian if I may - adding transparent=true on to the end of the URL will
allow the street layer to be transparent so satelite imagery can be used
along with the streets.

The URL would be
http://maps.mapwise.com/cgi-bin/mapserv?map=maps/fmo-base-osm-texas.map=true

After selecting the layer using the Get Layers, change the image from
image/jpeg to image/png

Then you are good to go.

Clifford

On Sun, Aug 27, 2017 at 3:47 PM, Brian May  wrote:

> There is now a task in the OSM Task Manager to help coordinate the effort
> at http://tasks.openstreetmap.us/project/104
>
> There is also a WMS layer of Texas statewide streets available at
> http://maps.mapwise.com/cgi-bin/mapserv?map=maps/fmo-base-osm-texas.map;
> - use that URL in JOSM.
>
> Adding WMS layer to JOSM tutorial here: http://learnosm.org/en/josm/
> josm-adding-imagery/
>
> The streets are from: https://tnris.org/data-catalog/entry/txdot-roadways/
>
> Brian
>
> On 8/25/2017 10:02 PM, Hans De Kryger wrote:
>
> Thanks for letting me know, i'm on it!
>
> *Regards,*
> *Hans*
>
> On Fri, Aug 25, 2017 at 1:56 PM, Brian May  wrote:
>
>> Calling all TIGER fixup junkies. I've been poking around the coastal
>> areas of Texas where Hurricane Harvey is expected to make landfall and
>> seeing a lot of TIGER fixup needed. More and more websites depend on OSM so
>> it would be nice to provide more accurate and updated info than what is
>> there now. Maps and GIS are going to be heavily relied on especially after
>> the storm.
>>
>> Common issues:
>>
>> - Streets that aren't there
>>
>> - Tracks marked as residential. Many tracks are barely visible or edges
>> of farms and should be deleted.
>>
>> - Driveways marked as residential streets (should be service).
>>
>> - Streets needing realignment.
>>
>> - Streets not connecting properly.
>>
>>
>> An interesting site using OSM is https://livestormchasing.com/map
>>
>> Storm chaser locations are shown on OSM in real time and there are video
>> feeds from some of them. So that means you can get real time video of what
>> the ground looks like! Lots of flooding already happening along the coast.
>>
>> Brian aka grouper
>>
>>
>>
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>
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Re: [Talk-us] Redacting 75, 000 street names contributed by user chdr

[Clifford Snow]

On Sun, Aug 27, 2017 at 6:49 AM, Frederik Ramm  wrote:

>
> Here's a list of way IDs affected, with country and state:
>
> http://www.remote.org/frederik/tmp/chdr.details
>
>
Frederik,
I looked a small sample of the list. For example, way 10012342 [1] in Texas
was only touched by chdr. The name originated with the TIGER import by Dave
Hansen. It doesn't appear to me that at this point a mass deletion, at
least in the US, is appropriate.

As Ian pointed out, using a tool like Maproulette to validate names would
be a more appropriate recourse to insure we chdr did not add copyright
information to OSM. Especially four years later. I believe the US community
can manage to review 18,000 names to insure integrity of our project.

[1] http://www.openstreetmap.org/way/10012342/history

Best,
Clifford
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Re: [Talk-us] Establishing Tasks for South Bay Sidewalks

[Clifford Snow]

The OpenSidewalks Project is being funded by UW's Taskar Center to improve
access for people with limited mobility. By mapping individual sidewalk
ways, you are laying the ground work for someone to get a website up to
help people navigate the city by foot and wheelchair.

Clifford

On Mon, Jul 24, 2017 at 10:43 AM, Vivek Bansal <3viv...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Hey Clifford (et. al),
>
> As far as scheme goes, so far we have been tagging sidewalks with
> left/right/both on the highway.  We are about 1/15 the way through.  But
> after reading http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/
> Proposed_features/sidewalk_schema  I think we'll try to create separate
> ways for footways and crossings for future tagging.  We have a big county
> and we are doing this computerside so we probably won't do significantly
> more than that like grade.
>
> We do need to figure out if our analysis methods will work with our
> tagging as well.
>
> -Vivek
>
> On Sat, Jul 22, 2017 at 3:35 PM Clifford Snow <cliff...@snowandsnow.us>
> wrote:
>
>> Vivek,
>> I email you an email address off line to get admin privilages to the US
>> Tasking Manager.
>>
>> What help do you need using the US Tasking Manager. I used it to map
>> sidewalks in Mount Vernon, WA.
>>
>> Have you thought about what scheme to map sidewalks? I've been won over
>> to mapping them as individual ways to allow for routing. Which means
>> redoing Mount Vernon.
>>
>> Take a look at http://OpenSitdeWalks.com for information of the schema
>> proposal as well as the wiki.  There is a demo at http://accessmap.io
>> for use by people with mobility impairments in Seattle.
>>
>> Clifford
>> On Sat, Jul 22, 2017 at 12:35 PM, Vivek Bansal <3viv...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> We want to set up a task in the osm-us tasking manager to mark sidewalk
>>> tags across the entire Santa Clara County, California.
>>>
>>> We are doing this tagging using the Bing imagery in ID.  Right now it's
>>> individual and manual.
>>>
>>> I'm a part of the Santa Clara Valley Transportation Authority.  We plan
>>> on using this data to do network analysis.
>>>
>>> We have already started work: http://product.itoworld.com/
>>> map/126?lon=-121.89058=37.33616=12
>>>
>>> What information do you need from us to get this set up?
>>>
>>> Vivek Bansal
>>> GIS Programmer
>>> VTA
>>> osm: 3vivekb
>>>
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>>>
>>
>>
>> --
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>>
>


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Re: [Talk-us] Establishing Tasks for South Bay Sidewalks

[Clifford Snow]

Vivek,
I email you an email address off line to get admin privilages to the US
Tasking Manager.

What help do you need using the US Tasking Manager. I used it to map
sidewalks in Mount Vernon, WA.

Have you thought about what scheme to map sidewalks? I've been won over to
mapping them as individual ways to allow for routing. Which means redoing
Mount Vernon.

Take a look at http://OpenSitdeWalks.com for information of the schema
proposal as well as the wiki.  There is a demo at http://accessmap.io for
use by people with mobility impairments in Seattle.

Clifford

On Sat, Jul 22, 2017 at 12:35 PM, Vivek Bansal <3viv...@gmail.com> wrote:

> We want to set up a task in the osm-us tasking manager to mark sidewalk
> tags across the entire Santa Clara County, California.
>
> We are doing this tagging using the Bing imagery in ID.  Right now it's
> individual and manual.
>
> I'm a part of the Santa Clara Valley Transportation Authority.  We plan on
> using this data to do network analysis.
>
> We have already started work: http://product.itoworld.com/
> map/126?lon=-121.89058=37.33616=12
>
> What information do you need from us to get this set up?
>
> Vivek Bansal
> GIS Programmer
> VTA
> osm: 3vivekb
>
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Re: [Talk-us] Ferry durations

[Clifford Snow]

I update Martijn overpass query to find ferry routes without a duration
tag. Washington State is considered to have the largest ferry system in the
world, but damm, I didn't know there were so many ferry routes in the state!

These are just the one's without a duration tag. I have emails into a
number of the operators to get durations. Other I just need to lookup. Work
in progress.

http://overpass-turbo.eu/s/qna

On Wed, Jul 12, 2017 at 1:55 PM, OSM Volunteer stevea <
stevea...@softworkers.com> wrote:

> I like the idea of adding ferries without duration to MapRoulette — great
> idea!
> If you don't, I will!  (Well, it might take me a while).
> I'll check in a week or so and if nobody has, I'll give it a go.
>
> (Last ferry I rode in BC was to Bowen Island to attend a wedding of some
> friends who grew up there).
>
> SteveA
> California
>
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Re: [Talk-us] SEO Damage to OSM

[Clifford Snow]

I'm looking for input on doing a post on the Reddit/r/SEO subreddit
describing some of the damage done by a few and why adding their clients to
OSM won't help. What concerns me is that it will create
another TheSilphRoad where every Pokemon player wants to add fake water
features. Do you think it would be better to get the issue out in the open
or hope that obscurity prevails?

Clifford

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Re: [Talk-us] SEO Damage to OSM

[Clifford Snow]

Can we curtail the discussion on which country is responsible? It doesn't
seem to help move us forward to tackling the problem.

I've met with two different SEO companies looking to add their clients to
OSM. It appears they didn't want to go through the import process nor did
they start adding companies. That's the good news. One described how easy
it was to upload to Google, Foresquare, Yahoo, Bing, and Apple. Just need a
csv spreadsheet using the proper business classification for the business.
(Each of the search companies have different requirement for
classification.) The result is when you search for these companies
locations, they are often geocoded to the street since there isn't an exact
location.

SEO want to add their clients to OSM because they think it will increase
Page Ranking. I was told that OSM has a very high Authority rank which
means that their client webiste benefits from being on OSM. What they don't
realize is when we display their URL  a ref=nofollow tag which tells the
search engines not to count that link when determining Page Rank. As was
pointed out to me, since we make our data available to others, they many
not be following our nofollow policy.

The easy answer to stop SEO companies from spamming is to remove the
website URL tag. Of course that's not going to fly.

I suggest we encourage users of OSM data to also use the nofollow tag. If
you are using OSM data, check to see how the url is presented.

Clifford


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Re: [Talk-us] SEO Damage to OSM

[Clifford Snow]

Simon,
Thanks for looking at them. Fortunately there wasn't too many to fix
mannually. Some of vandalism goes back 2 or 3 years if I recall correctly.
I did check Canada thinking that they might have hit them as well, but
other than some strange addresses on ways, it was clean.

Ian Dees did fixed the remaining of the problems.

I plan to look at the original changesets to see if there is any clue which
company was behind it. Do you know if I gave the systems admin people a
list of user if they could check the email used to create the account
belongs to one company?

On Fri, Jun 30, 2017 at 1:26 PM, Simon Poole <si...@poole.ch> wrote:

> I''m in the process of fixing a couple of these. and I couldn't help
> noticing that some of them can't simply be reverted because the TeleNav
> data team has added lane tagging on them 
>
> Simon
>
> Am 30.06.2017 um 18:21 schrieb Clifford Snow:
>
> Edits, from what appears to be a search engine optimization company (SEO),
> have damaged a number of ways in the US. Martijn Van Exel pointed out the
> problem on Slack the other day. What they did was to add their client to a
> street, often changing the name of the street to the company.  Fortunately
> they made it easy to find using overpass [1] by adding in the clients
> address, phone number, source and website. The query looks for addresses
> and websites on ways.
>
> West of the Mississippi has been fixed. There are some false positives
> when running the query, they are all park polygons with both leisure=park
> and highway=pedestrian. The website url is of the park.
>
> If someone would like to help clean up the rest of damage they did, just
> run the overpass query for an area, state, county, etc. to get a list of
> ways that match the query. From there just select the way which will open
> OSM in another tab where you can use your favorite editor to fix. Use the
> history feature or TIGER data to get the correct road name. The addr:street
> they added may not be anywhere near your way.
>
> [1] http://overpass-turbo.eu/s/q5A
>
> Thanks,
> Clifford
>
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[Talk-us] SEO Damage to OSM

[Clifford Snow]

Edits, from what appears to be a search engine optimization company (SEO),
have damaged a number of ways in the US. Martijn Van Exel pointed out the
problem on Slack the other day. What they did was to add their client to a
street, often changing the name of the street to the company.  Fortunately
they made it easy to find using overpass [1] by adding in the clients
address, phone number, source and website. The query looks for addresses
and websites on ways.

West of the Mississippi has been fixed. There are some false positives when
running the query, they are all park polygons with both leisure=park and
highway=pedestrian. The website url is of the park.

If someone would like to help clean up the rest of damage they did, just
run the overpass query for an area, state, county, etc. to get a list of
ways that match the query. From there just select the way which will open
OSM in another tab where you can use your favorite editor to fix. Use the
history feature or TIGER data to get the correct road name. The addr:street
they added may not be anywhere near your way.

[1] http://overpass-turbo.eu/s/q5A

Thanks,
Clifford

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Re: [Talk-us] rasters of climate change

[Clifford Snow]

Not sure if talk-us is the best place to ask. We don't use raster data for
much more than background tracing. The only suggestion I have is to look at
Landviewer [1] for areas you know that have been reported as having climate
changes impacts and compare years. Landsat will go back a number of years.
If you want to get more sophisticated, use QGIS to compare vegetation from
then to now using the semi-automatic classification plugin.

Or just visit any lake in Northern Minnesota and ask the locals.  I've
spent many summers on Gull Lake.

[1] https://lv.eosda.com

Best,
Clifford


On Sat, Apr 15, 2017 at 5:45 AM, moira walsh  wrote:

>
> I'm looking for before and after rasters documenting climate
> change-anywhere.
> If anyone can point me in the right direction, I'd really appreciate it.
> Thank you!
>
> --
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Moira Walsh MPH
> www.waterinanutshell.net
> 507 210 6420 <(507)%20210-6420>   Texts are O.K.
>
>
>
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Re: [Talk-us] People For Bikes Connectivity Tool

[Clifford Snow]

On Thu, Apr 6, 2017 at 1:01 PM, Spencer Gardner 
wrote:

>
> People for Bikes has been encouraging cities to make sure their bike
> networks are up-to-date in OSM so you may see some activity in your
> respective cities. We have produced some training materials to introduce
> users to tagging bicycle facilities in OSM (and referring them to LearnOSM
> for more general training).
>

Spencer,
What cities have shown interest into updating OSM? There may be local
mappers that would be interested in help the city add to OSM.

On another thread, do you plan to submit a presentation to this year's
SOTM-US conference?

Thanks,
Clifford


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Re: [Talk-us] Available Building Footprints Date: March 28, 2017 at 2:06:33 AM PDT

[Clifford Snow]

On Tue, Mar 28, 2017 at 10:43 AM, Frederik Ramm  wrote:

> This is where I have violently disagreed with Denis and his team in the
> past and still do; in my eyes, the *hard* work starts once the data has
> been prepared and converted and set up, because *then* I want people
> familiar with the area to load the data, compare it with what's there,
> NOT blindly delete what's there, cross-check with aerial imagery and so on.
>

Violently? Really? Actually all parts are equal important. Do a poor job
creating data to be imported will only result in poor data imported into
OSM. Equally important as you point out is the physical import which should
always be more than copy paste.

>
> In my eyes, all the data preparation is peanuts, and the real value is
> added to the import at the upload stage. This is where it is decided
> whether this import will be successful or rubbish. A sad example for a
> rubbish import is almost all of CanVec, which tends to be uploaded by
> people who think that the "hard work" is already done by those who
> prepared the data, and that all that is left for them is hitting the
> upload button in JOSM.
>

Why bring up CanVec?

>
> While a task manager can help, it tends to invite contributions by
> people who are not at all local to the area just to "colour it green".
> This is undesirable in my opinion.
>

I have to disagree with you. Using the Tasking Manager with newer mappers
is a good thing. That's how we build more experience mappers for the
future. If the preparation for the import is done well, newer mappers
should be able to learn how to do a quality import. That newer mapper
learns new tools and gains confidence to be valued contributor. The TM
validation layer then allows us to give feedback to not only the new
mapper, but also back to the originator.

Clifford



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