Re: The Bat! 4.0 with SocksCap problem?
[Reply to: »Marek Mikus« · 2008-02-26 · 21:39 h (CET)] Moin, Marek! Until now I thought it was an internal problem in my company, but now I am sure The Bat! is the root cause of the socks server problem. thanks, reported in https://www.ritlabs.com/bt/view.php?id=6866 Maybe it is a good idea to implement Socks Server Support in The Bat! itself like in Mozilla Thunderbird: Under Options|Network Administration - Tab Network [x] Use Socks Server SOCKS host: [ ] Port: [ ] Direct connections to: [ ] Is it worth it to file a Wish? Cheers! VA - -- QA mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] — [2008-02-27] Direct eMail without [tbb] in subject line will end in Nirvana! Using The Bat! 4.0.14.7 [Pro] on Windows XP [Pro] Service Pack 2. »I love deadlines. I like the whooshing sound they make as they fly by.« — Douglas Adams (1952 - 2001) Current beta is 4.0.14.7 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: The Bat! 4.0 with SocksCap problem?
[Reply to: »Volker Ahrendt« · 2008-02-27 · 13:22 h (CET)] thanks, reported in https://www.ritlabs.com/bt/view.php?id=6866 Maybe it is a good idea to implement Socks Server Support in The Bat! itself like in Mozilla Thunderbird: Under Options|Network Administration - Tab Network [x] Use Socks Server SOCKS host: [ ] Port: [ ] Direct connections to: [ ] Is it worth it to file a Wish? Done: https://www.ritlabs.com/bt/view.php?id=6870 Cheers! VA - -- QA mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] — [2008-02-27] Direct eMail without [tbb] in subject line will end in Nirvana! Using The Bat! 4.0.14.7 [Pro] on Windows XP [Pro] Service Pack 2. »You live and learn. At any rate, you live.« Douglas Adams (1952 - 2001) Current beta is 4.0.14.7 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re[2]: The Bat! 4.0 with SocksCap problem?
Maybe it is a good idea to implement Socks Server Support in The Bat! In some simple words, what is SocksCap is good for? Read the info on the net, but I dont really get it... -- Vili Current beta is 4.0.14.7 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: The Bat! 4.0 with SocksCap problem?
[Reply to: »Vili« · 2008-02-27 · 17:06 h (CET)] Moin, Vili! In some simple words, what is SocksCap is good for? Read the info on the net, but I dont really get it... Read this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SOCKS Cheers! VA - -- QA mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] — [2008-02-27] Direct eMail without [tbb] in subject line will end in Nirvana! Using The Bat! 4.0.14.7 [Pro] on Windows XP [Pro] Service Pack 2. »The major difference between a thing that might go wrong and a thing that cannot possibly go wrong is that when a thing that cannot possibly go wrong goes wrong it usually turns out to be impossible to get at or repair.« — Douglas Adams (1952 - 2001), »Mostly Harmless« Current beta is 4.0.14.7 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re[2]: The Bat! 4.0 with SocksCap problem?
In some simple words, what is SocksCap is good for? Read the info on the net, but I dont really get it... Read this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SOCKS So, to let my simple brain to understand: a way to go thru firewalls using normal Explorer-style (HTTP or something) protocol, and drive admins crazy :) ? -- Vili Current beta is 4.0.14.7 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: The Bat! 4.0 with SocksCap problem?
[Reply to: »Marek Mikus« · 2008-02-25 · 11:47 h (CET)] Moin! From user: Currently I am back on 3.99.29 through SocksCap, I confirm what I wrote: On the v4 copy (registered with my v3 license), launched through SocksCap, all connections are made DIRECTLY to the mail servers and do NOT go through SocksCap. I am using Win XP with SP2. Confirmed! Just tested with … … 3.99.29 through SocksCap - Okay! … 4.0.14.7 through SocksCap - Server not found! Until now I thought it was an internal problem in my company, but now I am sure The Bat! is the root cause of the socks server problem. Cheers! VA - -- QA mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] — [2008-02-26] Direct eMail without [tbb] in subject line will end in Nirvana! Using The Bat! 4.0.14.7 [Pro] on Windows XP [Pro] Service Pack 2. »I love deadlines. I like the whooshing sound they make as they fly by.« Douglas Adams (1952 - 2001) Current beta is 4.0.14.7 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: The Bat! 4.0 with SocksCap problem?
Hello all, Tuesday, February 26, 2008, Volker Ahrendt wrote: Confirmed! Just tested with … … 3.99.29 through SocksCap - Okay! … 4.0.14.7 through SocksCap - Server not found! Until now I thought it was an internal problem in my company, but now I am sure The Bat! is the root cause of the socks server problem. thanks, reported in https://www.ritlabs.com/bt/view.php?id=6866 -- Bye Marek Mikus Czech support of The Bat! http://www.thebat.cz Using the best The Bat! 4.0.14.7 under Windows XP 5.1 Build 2600 Service Pack 2 with MyMacros,XMP,AnotherMacros, NOD32 Antivirus plugin and AntispamSniper v 2.7.1.7 Notebook Toshiba, Core2 Duo 1.83 GHz, 1 GB RAM Current beta is 4.0.14.7 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
The Bat! 4.0 with SocksCap problem?
Hello, anybody uses The Bat! 4.0 with SocksCap for connecting to server via Socks? One user reports in forum, he can't use it after upgrading to 4.0, maybe it is because rewritten socket support in 4.0.0.13, but nobody reported this yet as I remember. From user: Currently I am back on 3.99.29 through SocksCap, I confirm what I wrote: On the v4 copy (registered with my v3 license), launched through SocksCap, all connections are made DIRECTLY to the mail servers and do NOT go through SocksCap. I am using Win XP with SP2. -- Thanks and Bye, Marek Mikus Czech support of The Bat! http://www.thebat.cz Using the best The Bat! 4.0.14.5 under Windows XP 5.1 Build 2600 Service Pack 2 Notebook Acer, Pentium4-M 2.2 GHz, 512 MB RAM, ADSL line Current beta is 4.0.14.7 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: The Bat! 4.0 with SocksCap problem?
Hi, Marek. anybody uses The Bat! 4.0 with SocksCap for connecting to server via Socks? One user reports in forum, he can't use it after upgrading to 4.0, maybe it is because rewritten socket support in 4.0.0.13, but nobody reported this yet as I remember. I heard the same. My tests were unsuccessfull. May be my OS is Vista, may be I did not configure Socks properly, may be my socks server is not good for this soft. May be I must use special version for my OS and thebat version I don't know. :-( For example about other software Opera cannot resolve names through my sockscaps. TheBat did not connect at all. -- VBR, Ivan mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Current beta is 4.0.14.7 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: The Bat! 4.0
Thanks, Henk. That explains why I couldn't find the messages on the list. :-) -- Keith Current beta is 3.99.29 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re[2]: The Bat! 4.0
Hello Mark, Tuesday, December 11, 2007, 2:54:38 PM, you wrote: MP Hello MikeD, MP Tuesday, December 11, 2007, 5:39:52 PM, you wrote: M2 Well ... I have no idea what the sender =intended= it look like wink M2 I can only say that I (normally) don't see anything that looks M2 wrong. Occasionally there will be a problem with the net and M2 something won't come down, but that would be a problem no matter what M2 you were using to display g MP Or, I wasn't accurate enough describing the case, or you misunderstood me. MP I'm talking about an html message with inline graphics, not a message with MP links to graphics on a remote server. If you click on the 'html icon' on MP the left side attachment list in such a case, besides the text, you get MP nothing but little red crosses. It was me not 'getting' your point, I think. Mostly because I haven't see a difference. Maybe I have just been lucky, but I never had something that didn't render correctly when I 'opened' the html version ... so I never really looked closely enough to see if the graphics were local or linked in from a site. MP If you receive a message in which inline and remote graphics (or text) MP are combined, you won't be able to see the total correct message in TB!. H ... is that in the preview or when you actually open it? As I said above, I have not run into one that didn't render correctly when I clicked on the HTML attachment and I really don't worry too much about what it looks like in the preview ... as long as I can tell who it is from and what is likely in it. MP It's not often that one receives such a message, but it happens, and those MP can be genuine (I mean written/sent without evil intentions) messages. MP Some people seem to specialise in such a style... Right ... we all know what we want g And in the hopes that tptb at Rit are listening ... fwiw, I have been accused of being a polyanna chuckle ... I have tried to voice my preferences and the reasons behind them. That does not mean that someone else's view isn't just as valid. Of course I =hope= that they will end up with things that I like, but when they don't wink I will evaluate and continue with the current version or move to the new one ... depending on my evaluations. I just didn't want folks to think that I was trying to say that their pet feature was wrong of should not be considered just because I don't happen to think it helps make TB better ... or something like that weg -- Best regards, MikeDmailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Using The Bat! v3.99.29 on Windows XP 5.1 Build 2600 Service Pack 2 Current beta is 3.99.29 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re[2]: The Bat! 4.0
Hello Marek, Tuesday, December 11, 2007, 1:38:00 PM, you wrote: 3 RSS plugins exists already, even they are not perfect and there are some limitations in Bat. Can you tell where I can find the RSS Plugins? Thank you. Jerry -- Best regards, Ethanmailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Current beta is 3.99.29 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: The Bat! 4.0
Hello all, Wednesday, December 12, 2007, Ethan J. Mings wrote: 3 RSS plugins exists already, even they are not perfect and there are some limitations in Bat. Can you tell where I can find the RSS Plugins? I am preparing info, please wait. -- Bye Marek Mikus Czech support of The Bat! http://www.thebat.cz Using the best The Bat! 3.99.29 under Windows XP 5.1 Build 2600 Service Pack 2 with MyMacros,XMP,AnotherMacros, NOD32 Antivirus plugin and AntispamSniper v 2.7.1.5 Notebook Toshiba, Core2 Duo 1.83 GHz, 1 GB RAM Current beta is 3.99.29 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: The Bat! 4.0
Henk M. de Bruijn wrote: I asked this on October 18th. What a pity that next to the news about update policy of 11/7/2007 and the license policy of 11/19/2207 there is no communication with tbbeta about what is next :-( Can you post what appeared in these two messages? I don't seem to be able to find either -- Keith Current beta is 3.99.29 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: The Bat! 4.0
On Wed, 12 Dec 2007, at 21:02:29 [GMT -0700] (which was 5:02 where I live) Keith Russell wrote: Can you post what appeared in these two messages? I don't seem to be able to find either http://www.ritlabs.com/ -- Henk M. de Bruijn _ The Bat! E-Mail System version 3.99.29 Pro on Windows XP SP2 AntispamSniper for the Bat! 2.7.1.5 Thawte notary, CAcert assurer, GSWoT introducer Gossamer Spider Web of Trust http://www.gswot.org pgpVwyOFAiR4v.pgp Description: PGP signature Current beta is 3.99.29 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: The Bat! 4.0
Guten Tag Thomas Fernandez, am Montag, 10. Dezember 2007 um 14:50 schrieben Sie: JF Any Content, which is not included in the Mail(s) has not to be JF displayed until i give explicitly permission to access the JF Internet for this. Agreed. The suggestion is to allow this permission. It is not possible now. Maybe it would be a idea to make detailed Permission, for Example from the (E-Mail)Senders Domain only... Or a List, which concats Sender-E-Mails with allowed Link-Domains. -- Mit freundlichen Grüßen Jens Franik mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Current beta is 3.99.29 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re[2]: The Bat! 4.0
Hello Jens, Monday, December 10, 2007, 8:36:39 AM, you wrote: With the Rest i didn't see any important missing features :-) Maybe RSS would be nice to have. RSS as a plug in for TheBat would be most helpful. While stand alone RSS programs are helpful, a plug in for the Bat would really make it possible to address the use of RSS within organizations for obtaining information and news updates. Jerry -- Best regards, Ethanmailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Current beta is 3.99.29 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re[3]: The Bat! 4.0
Hello Gunivortus, Monday, December 10, 2007, 9:23:40 AM, you wrote: GG Hi Thomas, Come on! While I also receive newsletters I want to see *with* pictures, there is no need to use Incredimail! Eudora, Outlook, a myriad of email clients can do this. Are you pulling our legs? GG From the beginning of its first release, IM was better in GG HTML displaying as those you're mentioning; so I bought it GG and use it since then for my e-zines, etc, asking from time GG to time for adding full html display in TB. GG I never ever used Eudora or Outlook, nor did and do I plan that. GG So I can't agree they're better or not than IM. I don't bother. GG I just want TB doing it all, one emailclient should be sufficient GG if it can all I need. GG And there's a lot others asked, that I don't need; GG No backupfunction, (I make my images), no RSS, no IMAP, no GG calendar, no Linuxversion (ack!). OK ... All I do is click on the 'html icon' on the left side attachment list and ... glorisoki, my HTML content is rendered by Firefox. No muss no fuss. What am I missing in this discussion? -- Best regards, MikeDmailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Using The Bat! v3.99.29 on Windows XP 5.1 Build 2600 Service Pack 2 Current beta is 3.99.29 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re[2]: The Bat! 4.0
Hello Thomas, Monday, December 10, 2007, 8:50:49 AM, you wrote: TF Hello Jens, TF On Mon, 10 Dec 2007 14:36:39 +0100 GMT (10/12/2007, 20:36 +0700 GMT), TF Jens Franik wrote: JF I'd neither have an HTML View as Default or Unchangable Setting. TF This won't happen. HTML view will always be an option, with plaintext TF preffered by many. JF Any Content, which is not included in the Mail(s) has not to be JF displayed until i give explicitly permission to access the JF Internet for this. TF Agreed. The suggestion is to allow this permission. It is not possible TF now. TF Another wish (this seems to have gotten lost while the thread TF progressed) is a real HTML editor, for those who want to use it. I TF have situations in the office were I need to reply to HTML mail in TF HTML, keeping the format (tables or colours), and maybe add some TF pictures in the middle. I am ridiculed in the office because my email TF client can't do what is standard on many others. I would rather that TB =not= get bogged down with all the bloat (and the cost in terms of development hours) needed to implement a fully functional HTML editor ... especially when there are plenty of them available already. When I have to include HTML, I use the HTML editor I already own, have installed and already **know how to use efficiently** to develop the content, then cut paste that into TB. OK ... I have stated my case and will stop now g -- Best regards, MikeDmailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Using The Bat! v3.99.29 on Windows XP 5.1 Build 2600 Service Pack 2 Current beta is 3.99.29 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: The Bat! 4.0
Hi MikeD (2), OK ... All I do is click on the 'html icon' on the left side attachment list and ... glorisoki, my HTML content is rendered by Firefox. No muss no fuss. What am I missing in this discussion? That's exactly what I don't want. If TB is able to read and write in HTML mode, it should be able to do that itself, without relaying on some browser. If the HTML options weren't in TB and weren't developed further, I were already away from TB. So, if, as told, HTML will becvome much better in version 4, I'll be very happy with it. -- Regards, Gunivortus Current beta is 3.99.29 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: The Bat! 4.0
Hello all, Tuesday, December 11, 2007, Gunivortus Goos wrote: OK ... All I do is click on the 'html icon' on the left side attachment list and ... glorisoki, my HTML content is rendered by Firefox. No muss no fuss. What am I missing in this discussion? That's exactly what I don't want. If TB is able to read and write in HTML mode, it should be able to do that itself, without relaying on some browser. If the HTML options weren't in TB and weren't developed further, I were already away from TB. So, if, as told, HTML will becvome much better in version 4, I'll be very happy with it. AFAIK version 4.0 will be able to download images to HTML messages. For next version in 4.x serie, HTML templates are planned. -- Bye Marek Mikus Czech support of The Bat! http://www.thebat.cz Using the best The Bat! 3.99.29 under Windows XP 5.1 Build 2600 Service Pack 2 with MyMacros,XMP,AnotherMacros, NOD32 Antivirus plugin and AntispamSniper v 2.7.1.5 Notebook Toshiba, Core2 Duo 1.83 GHz, 1 GB RAM Current beta is 3.99.29 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: The Bat! 4.0
Hello MikeD, Tuesday, December 11, 2007, 1:33:58 PM, you wrote: M2 OK ... All I do is click on the 'html icon' on the left side M2 attachment list and ... glorisoki, my HTML content is rendered by M2 Firefox. No muss no fuss. What am I missing in this discussion? Now, do that with an html-message in which the graphics are sent along with the message. Does it look as intended by the sender? What if, f.i., you wanted to make a pdf of such a message? -- Best Wishes, Mark using The Bat! Version 3.99.29 MyMacros 1.11a zOmbie's Macros Version 0.7 Windows 2000 Professional/5.0 build 2195 Service Pack 4 (1 days 5:38:21) on Uno AMD Duron Current beta is 3.99.29 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: The Bat! 4.0
Hello Jens, On Tue, 11 Dec 2007 10:49:46 +0100 GMT (11/12/2007, 16:49 +0700 GMT), Jens Franik wrote: Agreed. The suggestion is to allow this permission. It is not possible now. JF Maybe it would be a idea to make detailed Permission, for Example from JF the (E-Mail)Senders Domain only... JF Or a List, which concats Sender-E-Mails with allowed Link-Domains. Yes, a white-list option for downloading pictures is somewhere in the wish list. -- Cheers, Thomas. I got into the gene pool while the lifeguard wasn't watching. http://thomas.fernandez.hat-gar-keine-homepage.de/ Message reply created with The Bat! 3.99.3 under Windows XP 5.1 Build 2600 Service Pack 2 Current beta is 3.99.29 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: The Bat! 4.0
Hello MikeD, On Tue, 11 Dec 2007 07:34:13 -0500 GMT (11/12/2007, 19:34 +0700 GMT), MikeD (2) wrote: M2 I would rather that TB =not= get bogged down with all the bloat (and M2 the cost in terms of development hours) needed to implement a fully M2 functional HTML editor ... especially when there are plenty of them M2 available already. OK, a plugin to a good HTML editor would work for me too. M2 When I have to include HTML, I use the HTML editor I already own, M2 have installed and already **know how to use efficiently** to M2 develop the content, then cut paste that into TB. No, I wouldn't want this. I just need to create standard HTML replies. M2 OK ... I have stated my case and will stop now g That's OK... I have also stated my case, and it is up to the developers to decide whether they want to move with the times or stay in the last century. -- Cheers, Thomas. Nordamerika besteht aus lauter kleinen und grossen Inseln, von denen jedoch die wenigsten von Wasser umflossen sind. http://thomas.fernandez.hat-gar-keine-homepage.de/ Message reply created with The Bat! 3.99.3 under Windows XP 5.1 Build 2600 Service Pack 2 Current beta is 3.99.29 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: The Bat! 4.0
Guten Tag MikeD (2), am Dienstag, 11. Dezember 2007 um 13:33 schrieben Sie: OK ... All I do is click on the 'html icon' on the left side attachment list and ... glorisoki, my HTML content is rendered by Firefox. No muss no fuss. What am I missing in this discussion? That's exactly the same, i do, if i get such Mails (which i _want_ to read...). But they want it _inside_ The_Bat! - maybe even as an Internet-Explorer Plugin - whicht probably is the easiest Way, because the Control APIs are already here for Plugin-Support. Maybe i was misunderstood, i don't either need this, but if so - i'd vote for a _good_ solution. -- Mit freundlichen Grüßen Jens Franik mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Current beta is 3.99.29 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re[2]: The Bat! 4.0
Hello Mark, Tuesday, December 11, 2007, 8:14:06 AM, you wrote: MP Hello MikeD, MP Tuesday, December 11, 2007, 1:33:58 PM, you wrote: M2 OK ... All I do is click on the 'html icon' on the left side M2 attachment list and ... glorisoki, my HTML content is rendered by M2 Firefox. No muss no fuss. What am I missing in this discussion? MP Now, do that with an html-message in which the graphics are sent along with MP the message. MP Does it look as intended by the sender? Well ... I have no idea what the sender =intended= it look like wink I can only say that I (normally) don't see anything that looks wrong. Occasionally there will be a problem with the net and something won't come down, but that would be a problem no matter what you were using to display g MP What if, f.i., you wanted to make a pdf of such a message? Never came up ... but I would have the same problem if I wanted to save any 'web page' as a pdf. I suppose I would just open up Open Office, paste the doc in there and save it shrug And I should point out that saving in PDF format is not typically something one thinks of as an integral part of an HTML editor ... at least it isn't a feature that I worry about. If I am working with HTML, I want a web page out of it not a PDF. I would use a publisher type package for that. Maybe I am just too much of a dinosaur from decades of using Unix and Linux shrug I like software to be really good at one thing and not bloated up, slowed down and obscured with a ton of features that more properly belongs in some other program. -- Best regards, MikeDmailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Using The Bat! v3.99.29 on Windows XP 5.1 Build 2600 Service Pack 2 Current beta is 3.99.29 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: The Bat! 4.0
On Tue, 11 Dec 2007, at 14:11:12 [GMT +0100] (which was 14:11 where I live) Marek Mikus wrote: Hello Marek, ...*snipped* AFAIK version 4.0 will be able to download images to HTML messages. Will this be a Christmas version? -- Henk ;-) _ The Bat! E-Mail System version 3.99.29 Pro on Windows XP SP2 AntispamSniper for the Bat! 2.7.1.5 Thawte notary, CAcert assurer, GSWoT introducer Gossamer Spider Web of Trust http://www.gswot.org pgph0eIVORbZk.pgp Description: PGP signature Current beta is 3.99.29 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: The Bat! 4.0
Ethan, On 11-12-2007 13:23, you wrote in mid:[EMAIL PROTECTED]: RSS as a plug in for TheBat would be most helpful. Yes. Very. -- greeting Best regards /greeting author Peter Fjelsten /author thebat version 3.99.3 Pro /thebat versionextras MyGate, AVG /extras env. 2 POP3, 14 IMAP (Courier) 1 IMAP (Exchange 6.5), 200K+ msgs. /env. os Windows XP 5.1 Build 2600 Service Pack 2 /os Current beta is 3.99.29 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: The Bat! 4.0
Hello all, Tuesday, December 11, 2007, Peter Fjelsten wrote: On 11-12-2007 13:23, you wrote in mid:[EMAIL PROTECTED]: RSS as a plug in for TheBat would be most helpful. Yes. Very. 3 RSS plugins exists already, even they are not perfect and there are some limitations in Bat. -- Bye Marek Mikus Czech support of The Bat! http://www.thebat.cz Using the best The Bat! 3.99.29 under Windows XP 5.1 Build 2600 Service Pack 2 with MyMacros,XMP,AnotherMacros, NOD32 Antivirus plugin and AntispamSniper v 2.7.1.5 Notebook Toshiba, Core2 Duo 1.83 GHz, 1 GB RAM Current beta is 3.99.29 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: The Bat! 4.0
Marek, On 11-12-2007 19:38, you wrote in mid:[EMAIL PROTECTED]: 3 RSS plugins exists already, even they are not perfect and there are some limitations in Bat. Really? Do you have a link? What are the limitations (assuming that these are not described at the links you will hopefully send)? -- greeting Best regards /greeting author Peter Fjelsten /author thebat version 3.99.3 Pro /thebat versionextras MyGate, AVG /extras env. 2 POP3, 14 IMAP (Courier) 1 IMAP (Exchange 6.5), 200K+ msgs. /env. os Windows XP 5.1 Build 2600 Service Pack 2 /os Current beta is 3.99.29 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: The Bat! 4.0
On Tue, 11 Dec 2007, at 19:01:52 [GMT +0100] (which was 19:01 where I live) Henk M. de Bruijn wrote: Will this be a Christmas version? I meant Christmas edition... -- Henk ;-) _ The Bat! E-Mail System version 3.99.29 Pro on Windows XP SP2 AntispamSniper for the Bat! 2.7.1.5 Thawte notary, CAcert assurer, GSWoT introducer Gossamer Spider Web of Trust http://www.gswot.org pgpHhPAGMM4uU.pgp Description: PGP signature Current beta is 3.99.29 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: The Bat! 4.0
Hello MikeD, Tuesday, December 11, 2007, 5:39:52 PM, you wrote: M2 Well ... I have no idea what the sender =intended= it look like wink M2 I can only say that I (normally) don't see anything that looks M2 wrong. Occasionally there will be a problem with the net and M2 something won't come down, but that would be a problem no matter what M2 you were using to display g Or, I wasn't accurate enough describing the case, or you misunderstood me. I'm talking about an html message with inline graphics, not a message with links to graphics on a remote server. If you click on the 'html icon' on the left side attachment list in such a case, besides the text, you get nothing but little red crosses. If you receive a message in which inline and remote graphics (or text) are combined, you won't be able to see the total correct message in TB!. It's not often that one receives such a message, but it happens, and those can be genuine (I mean written/sent without evil intentions) messages. Some people seem to specialise in such a style... -- Best Wishes, Mark using The Bat! Version 3.99.29 MyMacros 1.11a zOmbie's Macros Version 0.7 Windows 2000 Professional/5.0 build 2195 Service Pack 4 (1 days 12:15:43) on Uno AMD Duron Current beta is 3.99.29 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: The Bat! 4.0
On Tuesday, December 11, 2007, 12:01:52 PM, Henk M. de Bruijn wrote: AFAIK version 4.0 will be able to download images to HTML messages. Will this be a Christmas version? lets hope not, unless this list is now out of the loop and all the beta testing goes on and has been transpiring somewhere else. -- Dwight A. Corrin 1201 W River Blvd Apt B108 Wichita KS 67203 316.303.9385 phone ahead to fax dcorrin at fastmail.fm Using IMAP with The Bat! 3.99.27.2 on Windows XP version 5,1 (Service Pack 2) Current beta is 3.99.29 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re[2]: The Bat! 4.0
Hello Sebastian, Friday, October 12, 2007, 8:39:05 PM, you wrote: What normal user expect is: 1. HTML templates 2. HTML pictures Yes, that is important. More and more newsletters are not readable without showing the pcitures. 3. Account like in OE (example: one Incoming folder for couple Accounts) No go. If it is optional I don't mind. But that is one of the reasons I never would use Outlook as mail client for more than one account. I simply need the separation of the incoming accounts. If you really do want that then make a gerneric incoming folder and define a filtering rule. 4. Improved backup and folder/message maintenance (.bin files problems) 5. RSS native support Would be nice to have. Also like newsgroups. But let's focus on the main task of The Bat: mails... ;) 6. better IMAP 7. better calendar and exchange support At least a calendering feature that supports WEBDAV or similar protocols. That also would make it possible to use ZIMBRA as mailserver. 8. Linux version Would be nice too, but I think when The Bat runs via Wine it also is fine, isn't it? 9. ldap v3 with TLS/SSL More important is that you would have the choice even to override invalid protocols (in case one is expired or something like that). What I expect: 1. Bugfixes Of course. 2. News and RSS native support Would be very nice. 3. HTML tamplates and pictures At least the pictures are a MUST. 4. PocketPC version with synchronization As I don't have a pocketPC version... However this feature isn't as important as it looks like. When you have an IMAP functionality then it is enough for the mails. However there should be a possibility to synchronise Calendar and Contacts. But I don't think that this is a task for the mail client. This better is implemented on the mailserver (e.g. synchronisation with Active Sync over the air). 5. Mouse gestures Well, I do like them but I never missed them in The Bat... 6. ACAP implementation for auto-choose best secure connection to server Nice to have. But I also didn't miss that yet... -- Best regards, Martinmailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Current beta is 3.99.29 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re[3]: The Bat! 4.0
Hello Martin, Monday, December 10, 2007, 3:40:57 AM, you wrote: MS Hello Sebastian, MS Friday, October 12, 2007, 8:39:05 PM, you wrote: What normal user expect is: 1. HTML templates 2. HTML pictures MS Yes, that is important. More and more newsletters are not readable MS without showing the pcitures. And that drives me nuts sigh I am quite happy with the text only view as the default and hope that does not go away ... at least as an option! 3. Account like in OE (example: one Incoming folder for couple Accounts) MS No go. If it is optional I don't mind. But that is one of the reasons MS I never would use Outlook as mail client for more than one account. I MS simply need the separation of the incoming accounts. MS If you really do want that then make a gerneric incoming folder and MS define a filtering rule. You can have either 'action' with either system. A single in box folder is easy enough to set up in TB. But it is almost as easy to do the opposite with IE (and just about any other client that has filters g) 4. Improved backup and folder/message maintenance (.bin files problems) 5. RSS native support MS Would be nice to have. Also like newsgroups. But let's focus on the MS main task of The Bat: mails... ;) Right. I am distressed at the tendency of programs to keep growing and expanding into 'swiss army programs'. While, in a pinch, it might be nice to have a single emergency tool that will do everything, the never have been able to make one that does everything as well as the specific tools. I want a mail client that is the best mail client possible. I don't want to compromize that so that it can get messages from a news reader ... I already have a great newsreader that does a great job of working with news groups ... which is different than getting email in many small ways that makes a combined tool less than optimum in both instances. 6. better IMAP 7. better calendar and exchange support MS At least a calendering feature that supports WEBDAV or similar MS protocols. That also would make it possible to use ZIMBRA as MS mailserver. Again, keep the calendar function in the calendar program and not in my mail client (see above rant wink) I already have one that works well enough!! 8. Linux version MS Would be nice too, but I think when The Bat runs via Wine it also is MS fine, isn't it? That =might= be a nice additional bullet point some day. I think it should be a low priority item ... at least for now. 9. ldap v3 with TLS/SSL MS More important is that you would have the choice even to override MS invalid protocols (in case one is expired or something like that). What I expect: 1. Bugfixes MS Of course. Not many bugs that need fixing in what I use. And the more 'new features' you add, the more bugs you will create. 2. News and RSS native support MS Would be very nice. As stated above, please don't invest any time in this. Lets stay focused on the reason for TB, email 3. HTML tamplates and pictures MS At least the pictures are a MUST. As long as I can preview in text and open the HTML if desired (that is what it does now ... and mostly without problem, for me anyway) 4. PocketPC version with synchronization MS As I don't have a pocketPC version... However this feature isn't as MS important as it looks like. When you have an IMAP functionality then MS it is enough for the mails. However there should be a possibility to MS synchronise Calendar and Contacts. MS But I don't think that this is a task for the mail client. This better MS is implemented on the mailserver (e.g. synchronisation with Active MS Sync over the air). And as soon as you say Pocket PC, you need to include Palm in the mix as well. There are more Palm based devices out there than Pocket PC ... at least that was the case the last time I looked at the numbers. 5. Mouse gestures MS Well, I do like them but I never missed them in The Bat... Ugh Mostly I don't find those particularly useful. But as long as they don't get in the way of using TB ... g 6. ACAP implementation for auto-choose best secure connection to server MS Nice to have. But I also didn't miss that yet... I agree that it =might= be nice for folks when they are 'on the move' with a laptop. Mostly I have not had need of it, however, and so would not give it a high priority. But that is just me. My needs are fairly simple and that is what I want, something simple and focused that does the best possible job possible on the one task I need it to do, work with my email. It is damned close to that now for me. So as long as we don't mess with that success, I am willing to take a look and the new ideas g -- Best regards, MikeDmailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Using The Bat! v3.99.29 on Windows XP 5.1 Build 2600 Service Pack 2 Current beta is 3.99.29 | 'Using TBBETA' information:
Re: The Bat! 4.0
Guten Tag MikeD (2), am Montag, 10. Dezember 2007 um 12:55 schrieben Sie: What normal user expect is: 1. HTML templates 2. HTML pictures MS Yes, that is important. More and more newsletters are not readable MS without showing the pcitures. And that drives me nuts sigh I am quite happy with the text only view as the default and hope that does not go away ... at least as an option! I'd neither have an HTML View as Default or Unchangable Setting. Any Content, which is not included in the Mail(s) has not to be displayed until i give explicitly permission to access the Internet for this. I like the Default Behavior of TBat! which is not displaying Pictures and Contents which are linked to the Web (even though i have a DSL Flat Connetion with sufficient big bandwith). 3. Account like in OE (example: one Incoming folder for couple Accounts) MS No go. If it is optional I don't mind. MS If you really do want that then make a gerneric incoming folder and MS define a filtering rule. Full ACK You can have either 'action' with either system. A single in box folder is easy enough to set up in TB. But it is almost as easy to do the opposite with IE (and just about any other client that has filters g) ACK too :-) With the Rest i didn't see any important missing features :-) Maybe RSS would be nice to have. -- Mit freundlichen Grüßen Jens Franik mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Current beta is 3.99.29 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re[2]: The Bat! 4.0
MS Yes, that is important. More and more newsletters are not readable MS without showing the pcitures. And that drives me nuts sigh I am quite happy with the text only view as the default and hope that does not go away ... at least as an option! I'd neither have an HTML View as Default or Unchangable Setting. Any Content, which is not included in the Mail(s) has not to be displayed until i give explicitly permission to access the Internet for this. I'm one of them who is getting dayly several newsletters, and e-papers by abonnement and weekly several e-zines. For all of them I need full html display, including pictures. So I'm eagerly waiting for TB 4, which should make it not nessesary anymore to use IncrediMail anymore. :-) -- Regards, Gunivortus Current beta is 3.99.29 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: The Bat! 4.0
Hello Jens, On Mon, 10 Dec 2007 14:36:39 +0100 GMT (10/12/2007, 20:36 +0700 GMT), Jens Franik wrote: JF I'd neither have an HTML View as Default or Unchangable Setting. This won't happen. HTML view will always be an option, with plaintext preffered by many. JF Any Content, which is not included in the Mail(s) has not to be JF displayed until i give explicitly permission to access the JF Internet for this. Agreed. The suggestion is to allow this permission. It is not possible now. Another wish (this seems to have gotten lost while the thread progressed) is a real HTML editor, for those who want to use it. I have situations in the office were I need to reply to HTML mail in HTML, keeping the format (tables or colours), and maybe add some pictures in the middle. I am ridiculed in the office because my email client can't do what is standard on many others. -- Cheers, Thomas. Compaq is considering changing the command Press Any Key to Press Return Key because of the flood of calls asking where the Any key is. http://thomas.fernandez.hat-gar-keine-homepage.de/ Message reply created with The Bat! 3.99.3 under Windows XP 5.1 Build 2600 Service Pack 2 Current beta is 3.99.29 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: The Bat! 4.0
Hello Gunivortus, On Mon, 10 Dec 2007 14:56:51 +0100 GMT (10/12/2007, 20:56 +0700 GMT), Gunivortus Goos wrote: GG I'm one of them who is getting dayly several newsletters, GG and e-papers by abonnement and weekly several e-zines. For GG all of them I need full html display, including pictures. GG So I'm eagerly waiting for TB 4, which should make it GG not nessesary anymore to use IncrediMail anymore. :-) Come on! While I also receive newsletters I want to see *with* pictures, there is no need to use Incredimail! Eudora, Outlook, a myriad of email clients can do this. Are you pulling our legs? ;-) -- Cheers, Thomas. A boiled egg in the morning is hard to beat. http://thomas.fernandez.hat-gar-keine-homepage.de/ Message reply created with The Bat! 3.99.3 under Windows XP 5.1 Build 2600 Service Pack 2 Current beta is 3.99.29 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re[2]: The Bat! 4.0
Hi Thomas, Come on! While I also receive newsletters I want to see *with* pictures, there is no need to use Incredimail! Eudora, Outlook, a myriad of email clients can do this. Are you pulling our legs? From the beginning of its first release, IM was better in HTML displaying as those you're mentioning; so I bought it and use it since then for my e-zines, etc, asking from time to time for adding full html display in TB. I never ever used Eudora or Outlook, nor did and do I plan that. So I can't agree they're better or not than IM. I don't bother. I just want TB doing it all, one emailclient should be sufficient if it can all I need. And there's a lot others asked, that I don't need; No backupfunction, (I make my images), no RSS, no IMAP, no calendar, no Linuxversion (ack!). -- Regards, Gunivortus Current beta is 3.99.29 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re[4]: The Bat! 4.0
Hello Ethan, Thursday, December 06, 2007, 13:38:44, you wrote: ability to work with Outlook What do you mean exactly by the ability to work with Outlook? -- Best regards, Maxim Masiutinmailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Current beta is 3.99.29 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re[3]: The Bat! 4.0
Hello Gleason, Wednesday, December 5, 2007, 10:33:55 AM, you wrote: This is just my opinion, but it does seem to me that there is here a lot of ill will towards Rit, and anger with having to deal with the brokenness that will appear in betas. I would agree. Some of the comments made in the last round of beta tested result in the moderators taking some extreme actions with the list. I'm hoping the next version of the product (Version 4.x) will incorporate some key stability issues (e.g., memory use, interface, ability to work with Outlook, etc) coupled with a calmer beta discussion board. I look forward to the opportunity to see version 4. Have a great day. Jerry -- Best regards, Ethanmailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Current beta is 3.99.29 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: The Bat! 4.0
Dear Bob, -- Mittwoch, 5. Dezember 2007, 18:57:47: This is just my opinion, but it does seem to me that there is here a lot of ill will towards Rit, and anger with having to deal with the brokenness that will appear in betas. I agree that the Beta list has taken on an unproductive and I think unnecessarily negative tone lately. Let's also try to look at all the development from RitLab's point of view - they have to be able to develop and market an improved product, and they don't have an infinite amount of time to deal with particular gripes from individuals on this list. By agreeing on your post I just want to add to my previous comment that my words should not diminish the positive development of the product TB!. Nor want I in any way ignore the hard work of the RITlabs Team. I am very much convinced of that product - honest! -- best regards | Using The Bat! 3.95.6 www.EddieCastelli.com | on Windows 2000 5.0 Eddie | Build 2195 Service Pack 4 on Tour | Current beta is 3.99.29 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re[3]: The Bat! 4.0
Hi Gleason, Wednesday, December 5, 2007, 8:33:55 AM, you wrote: This is just my opinion, but it does seem to me that there is here a lot of ill will towards Rit, and anger with having to deal with the brokenness that will appear in betas. I agree that the Beta list has taken on an unproductive and I think unnecessarily negative tone lately. Let's also try to look at all the development from RitLab's point of view - they have to be able to develop and market an improved product, and they don't have an infinite amount of time to deal with particular gripes from individuals on this list. -- Take Care, Bob -- Using The Bat! 3.99.29 (beta) on Windows XP 2600 Service Pack 2 Current beta is 3.99.29 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re[2]: The Bat! 4.0
Eddie, Sounds to me like some sort of awful mickeysoft bells and whistles program. But then again maybe it won't be as bad as it all sounds. But if a new Version shall be released, why is the TB!beta ML not involved in giving their view? When I recall it from the previous versions and years being on this list, more or less all major development was discussed together with RITlabs on this list. This is just my opinion, but it does seem to me that there is here a lot of ill will towards Rit, and anger with having to deal with the brokenness that will appear in betas. -- Gleason Using 3.99.29 on Windows XP, 5.1, Build 2600. IMAP email provider is Fastmail, which uses Cyrus server software. Current beta is 3.99.29 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: The Bat! 4.0
On Thu, 18 Oct 2007, at 08:37:53 [GMT +0200] (which was 7:37 where I live) Henk M. de Bruijn wrote: What about a roadmap? I asked this on October 18th. What a pity that next to the news about update policy of 11/7/2007 and the license policy of 11/19/2207 there is no communication with tbbeta about what is next :-( -- Henk M. de Bruijn _ The Bat! E-Mail System version 3.99.29 Pro on Windows XP SP2 AntispamSniper for the Bat! 2.7.1.5 Thawte notary, CAcert assurer, GSWoT introducer Gossamer Spider Web of Trust http://www.gswot.org pgpJTDxqvQbUH.pgp Description: PGP signature Current beta is 3.99.29 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: The Bat! 4.0
On Tuesday, December 4, 2007, 11:43:16 AM, Henk M. de Bruijn wrote: I asked this on October 18th. What a pity that next to the news about update policy of 11/7/2007 and the license policy of 11/19/2207 there is no communication with tbbeta about what is next :-( I agree, but what we got was more than I expected. :-( -- Dwight A. Corrin 1201 W River Blvd Apt B108 Wichita KS 67203 316.303.9385 phone ahead to fax dcorrin at fastmail.fm Using IMAP with The Bat! 3.99.27.2 on Windows XP version 5,1 (Service Pack 2) Current beta is 3.99.29 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re[2]: The Bat! 4.0
Henk, What about a roadmap? 2nd time I posted this. Curiouser and curiouser that it is not noticed on the Rit web site and overlooked here http://www.ritlabs.com/en/products/thebat/news_detail.php?ID=2188 I asked this on October 18th. What a pity that next to the news about update policy of 11/7/2007 and the license policy of 11/19/2207 there is no communication with tbbeta about what is next -- Gleason Using 3.99.29 on Windows XP, 5.1, Build 2600. IMAP email provider is Fastmail, which uses Cyrus server software. Current beta is 3.99.29 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re[3]: The Bat! 4.0
Het was dinsdag 4 december 2007 om 19:44 uur dat jij iets schreef over 'The Bat! 4.0' : Hallo Gleason, What about a roadmap? GP 2nd time I posted this. Curiouser and curiouser that it is not GP noticed on the Rit web site and overlooked here GP http://www.ritlabs.com/en/products/thebat/news_detail.php?ID=2188 read it and got dead scared. Sure as hell wanna beta test it, as to get to know it, for I got this feeling that I will NOT be willing to pay for this forthcoming release! :( Sounds to me like some sort of awful mickeysoft bells and whistles program. But then again maybe it won't be as bad as it all sounds. -- Groeten, Cees :snowrub: The pen is mightier than the sword __ The Bat! 3.99.29 [A12F0392] running on Windows XP 5.1 build 2600 Service Pack 2 Current beta is 3.99.29 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: The Bat! 4.0
Dear Cees, -- Dienstag, 4. Dezember 2007, 21:18:27: Sounds to me like some sort of awful mickeysoft bells and whistles program. But then again maybe it won't be as bad as it all sounds. But if a new Version shall be released, why is the TB!beta ML not involved in giving their view? When I recall it from the previous versions and years being on this list, more or less all major development was discussed together with RITlabs on this list. -- best regards | Using The Bat! 3.95.6 www.EddieCastelli.com | on Windows 2000 5.0 Eddie | Build 2195 Service Pack 4 on Tour | Current beta is 3.99.29 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
The Bat! 4.0 and Smartbat
Is there any news about Smartbat in version 4.0? I ask this because next to the Bat! I am also using Thunderbird now and then. Today I noticed an add on called Lightning 0.7 an integrated calendar application for Thunderbird. I am quite impressed! -- Henk M. de Bruijn Mozilla Thunderbird 2.0.0.9 (20071031) Enigmail 0.95.5 OpenPGP message encryption and authentication signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature Current beta is 3.99.29 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re[2]: The Bat! 4.0
Hello Henk, Saturday, November 10, 2007, 12:31:15 AM, you wrote: http://www.ritlabs.com/en/products/thebat/news_detail.php?ID=2240 I found the road map fairly easy to understand. What I am concerned about is the following: 1. Time line for the new product 2. List of the Significantly new features 3. List of Features that could not be addressed in version 3 that will be resolved in version 4 The two key areas of interest. a) RSS plug in that is rock solid and works well b) Easy integration to a Calender program of my choice c) Ability to have the program recognized in the corporate sector. (I'm getting hammered in the health care sector as spammer. Every week, key documents attached to the files are blocked) I look forward to beta testing. Have a good day. Jerry -- Best regards, Ethanmailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Current beta is 3.99.29 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: The Bat! 4.0
On Friday, November 9, 2007, 11:31:15 PM, Henk M. de Bruijn wrote: What about a roadmap? http://www.ritlabs.com/en/products/thebat/news_detail.php?ID=2240 I read that several times, and I'm still sure what it says. -- Dwight A. Corrin 1201 W River Blvd Apt B108 Wichita KS 67203 316.303.9385 phone ahead to fax dcorrin at fastmail.fm Using IMAP with The Bat! 3.99.29 on Windows Vista version 6,0 () Current beta is 3.99.29 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: The Bat! 4.0
On Sat, 10 Nov 2007, at 03:25:54 [GMT -0600] (which was 10:25 where I live) Dwight Corrin wrote: On Friday, November 9, 2007, 11:31:15 PM, Henk M. de Bruijn wrote: http://www.ritlabs.com/en/products/thebat/news_detail.php?ID=2240 I read that several times, and I'm still sure what it says. Sure or not sure? :-) -- Henk M. de Bruijn __ The Bat! E-Mail System version 3.99.29 Pro on Windows XP SP2 AntispamSniper for the Bat! 2.7.1.1 Thawte notary, CAcert assurer, GSWoT introducer Gossamer Spider Web of Trust http://www.gswot.org PGPkey at: http://www.biglumber.com/x/web?qs=0X11EECBEEB464DD0F pgpFYCuo1JYcn.pgp Description: PGP signature Current beta is 3.99.29 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re[2]: The Bat! 4.0
http://www.ritlabs.com/en/products/thebat/news_detail.php?ID=2240 I read that several times, and I'm still sure what it says. Sure or not sure? :-) Your v3 key will work with v4.0.x. New code will need for v4.1.x and above. -- Vili The Bat 3.99.6 on Windows XP 5.1 2600 Szervizcsomag 2 Current beta is 3.99.29 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re[3]: The Bat! 4.0
sábado, 10 nov 2007 at 12:55, it seems you wrote: Your v3 key will work with v4.0.x. New code will need for v4.1.x and above. Are u joking, isn't? -- /\/ Using The Bat! 3.99.29 Professional / \ / \ / Windows XP (5.1.2600 Service Pack 2) /\/ e t \/ i c i o u s Plugins: AntiSpamSniper 2.7.1.5 and miniRelayPlug 0.05.50 Moderator of Spanish TBUDL Spanish Translation Coordinator of The Bat! Current beta is 3.99.29 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re[4]: The Bat! 4.0
sábado, 10 nov 2007 at 16:23, it seems you wrote: Your v3 key will work with v4.0.x. New code will need for v4.1.x and above. Are u joking, isn't? sooorry! I sent this message without reading the link. -- /\/ Using The Bat! 3.99.29 Professional / \ / \ / Windows XP (5.1.2600 Service Pack 2) /\/ e t \/ i c i o u s Plugins: AntiSpamSniper 2.7.1.5 and miniRelayPlug 0.05.50 Moderator of Spanish TBUDL Spanish Translation Coordinator of The Bat! Current beta is 3.99.29 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: The Bat! 4.0
On Sat, 10 Nov 2007, at 16:26:16 [GMT +0100] (which was 16:26 where I live) Netvicious wrote: sooorry! I sent this message without reading the link. Let's test! -- Henk M. de Bruijn __ The Bat! E-Mail System version 3.99.29 Pro on Windows XP SP2 AntispamSniper for the Bat! 2.7.1.1 Thawte notary, CAcert assurer, GSWoT introducer Gossamer Spider Web of Trust http://www.gswot.org PGPkey at: http://www.biglumber.com/x/web?qs=0X11EECBEEB464DD0F pgpCCQWcRZ4P7.pgp Description: PGP signature Current beta is 3.99.29 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: The Bat! 4.0
On Saturday, November 10, 2007, 5:55:26 AM, Kertész Vilmos wrote: http://www.ritlabs.com/en/products/thebat/news_detail.php?ID=2240 I read that several times, and I'm still sure what it says. Sure or not sure? :-) Your v3 key will work with v4.0.x. New code will need for v4.1.x and above. I meant not sure. And now I'm not only not sure I understand it, but I'm also confused if that's what it means. Is that supposed to deflect complaints about paying for those features before, or is it going to be 4.1 before it is really a new version, or . . . The mind numbs pondering the other possibilities. -- Dwight A. Corrin 1201 W River Blvd Apt B108 Wichita KS 67203 316.303.9385 phone ahead to fax dcorrin at fastmail.fm Using IMAP with The Bat! 3.99.29 on Windows Vista version 6,0 () Current beta is 3.99.29 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: The Bat! 4.0
On Thu, 18 Oct 2007, at 08:37:53 [GMT +0200] (which was 7:37 where I live) Henk M. de Bruijn wrote: What about a roadmap? http://www.ritlabs.com/en/products/thebat/news_detail.php?ID=2240 -- grtz, Henk M. __ The Bat! E-Mail System version 3.99.29 Pro on Windows XP SP2 AntispamSniper for the Bat! 2.7.1.1 Thawte notary, CAcert assurer, GSWoT introducer Gossamer Spider Web of Trust http://www.gswot.org PGPkey at: http://www.biglumber.com/x/web?qs=0X11EECBEEB464DD0F pgplUmo47GizH.pgp Description: PGP signature Current beta is 3.99.29 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re[7]: The Bat! 4.0
Hello Paul, Monday, October 15, 2007, 8:46:02 AM, you wrote: PVN 10/15/2007 8:31 AM PVN Hi MikeD, PVN On 10/15/2007 MikeD (2) wrote: M2 very attractive to the geek community. They picked up in it early. M2 When they went to help out their tech-challenged friends who had M2 gotten 'clobbered' by some 'problem' in IE, they would tell them to M2 use this here program. PVN Hmm... Opera was around waay before Firefox and is waay more secure. A PVN quick check at Secunia will confirm this. As I recall PVN Firebird/Firefox started as a way to get rid of Netscape bloat and PVN then morphed into the secure replacement for IE. If you want a safe PVN browser get it here: http://kmeleon.sourceforge.net/ See its security PVN history here: http://secunia.com/product/15549/?task=advisories At that time, however, Opera did not work well with many sites. There are still a lot of sites where Opera does not render correctly. That is what has kept Opera as an 'also ran', unfortunate as that might be. M2 I cannot use TB for MSN now M2 that MS has changed the authentication (yet again sigh). PVN What a wonderful opportunity to move to a more positive email host! PVN 8-]} I still (possibly because of familiarity) prefer TB over the alternatives. OE is still 'brain dead', Thunderbird is not as useful to me (I use that on a company box since I can't have personal email there). I am still confident that eventually TB will catch up with MSN and their new authentication 'scheme' g -- Best regards, MikeDmailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Using The Bat! v3.99.25 on Windows XP 5.1 Build 2600 Service Pack 2 Current beta is (none) | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re[8]: The Bat! 4.0
10/17/2007 9:14 AM Hi MikeD, On 10/17/2007 MikeD (2) wrote: M2 There M2 are still a lot of sites where Opera does not render correctly. Not true. Poorly written or ActiveX enabled only. Opera is not ActiveX aware by design. Opera is big on mobile devices. M2 is what has kept Opera as an 'also ran' Opinion, not fact. I have dozens of customers all around the world that find Opera to be all they need. PVN What a wonderful opportunity to move to a more positive email host! PVN 8-]} M2 I still (possibly because of familiarity) prefer TB over the M2 alternatives. I was talking about your host, not the client. Kiss MSN goodbye and be healthy! M2 I am still confident that eventually TB will catch up with M2 MSN and their new authentication 'scheme' g What a crime that would be! -- Take Care, Paul Voyager v.3.99.4 on Win2k SP4-Rollup1 5.0.2195 No IMAP OTFE Current beta is (none) | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: The Bat! 4.0
On Friday, October 12, 2007, 7:45:51 PM, Gleason Pace wrote: Interesting. One of the things I positively didn't like about Mulberry was the necessity to delete messages twice. If I delete it, I want it to be gone. All gone. POP users have survived a long time without needing to deleting messages twice, why does this become necessary for Imap users? In TB!, the second deletion is when you compress the folder. -- Dwight A. Corrin 1201 W River Blvd Apt B108 Wichita KS 67203 316.303.9385 phone ahead to fax dcorrin at fastmail.fm Using IMAP with The Bat! 3.99.25 on Windows XP version 5,1 (Service Pack 2) Current beta is (none) | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re[2]: The Bat! 4.0
Dwight, On Friday, October 12, 2007, 7:45:51 PM, Gleason Pace wrote: Interesting. One of the things I positively didn't like about Mulberry was the necessity to delete messages twice. If I delete it, I want it to be gone. All gone. POP users have survived a long time without needing to deleting messages twice, why does this become necessary for Imap users? In TB!, the second deletion is when you compress the folder. Which can be done automatically. Much better. -- Gleason Using 3.99.25 on Windows XP, 5.1, Build 2600. IMAP email provider is Fastmail, which uses Cyrus server software. Current beta is (none) | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Mod: Untrimmed reply (was: The Bat! 4.0)
Hallo Hans, On Mon, 15 Oct 2007 7:06:49 +0200GMT (15-10-2007, 7:06, where I live), you wrote: HS Hans Current beta is 3.99.24 | 'Using TBBETA' information: moderator Note: This moderator's interjection is a note to all readers and not just to the person being replied to, even if their post may have instigated this reply. Please don't feel singled out Hans. ' Please trim replies to context. A sure fire indicator that insufficient trimming has been done is that the original signature and list footer remain in the quoted text. To find out why these MOD messages are posted to the list instead of private mail, please read the welcome message you received when you subscribed. Thank you. /moderator -- Groetjes, Roelof I'm an absolute, off-the-wall fanatical Moderator. pgpTzjzPdv6hk.pgp Description: PGP signature Current beta is (none) | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: The Bat! 4.0
Hello TheBat Beta List Members!!! Someday, and that was in night, Krzysztof wrote something like this: Tell me why this happen? I suspect a quite a big number of reasons are involved. Frequency of releases being a lesser one. I'd roughly say: (...) But this is RITs side. Normal user do not see this. You asked why that happened. So I wrote about my ideas what the reasons are. Normal users see results of the reasons above. The results are *NOT* things to cure. The reasons are. But this results show why TB ...none of these posts contains a detailed question that could lead to a conclusion that it not true that you can set everything so that it works exactly as in OE. Hence I re-state my assertion: I believe you can set everything so that it works exactly as in OE. hmmm Belive or not but not everything. Once again - see above links. Once again: the above links do NOT give detailed information about what can't be set up. That's why I'm asking. What is this:? Nie da się - każde konto musi mieć swój własny zestaw standardowych folderów. Another thing I notice after reading the articles you liked above is that people on that forum seem to be quite unhelpful. When you activate account, you must accept rules. One of rule is that you not ask about something that is in manual or you can find in forum archive, tb-l archive and PSTB FAQ - use search option. And you end up with… how many? 6 topics with virtually the same content: -How do I...? -RTFM. Sometimes better write more. Or give an exact link not just read the manual. Otherwise we can replace all answers with Google it!. Please do not judge people that help other users. You do not help on this forum even one more time and have knowledge how to set TB like OE up. People that help maybe do not know this trick. You know - please write this, it is very important for many users. Help them but nor here. Each topic starts with a question if it was possible to set TB up in an OE-manner. The answers are short and there are just two of them. Either no, So please support RITs and PSTB forum and only one time answer (you read, you know answer? you not answer - you are quite unhelpful?). I'm not even registered there and I just saw those posts Rules are the some like you accepted with tb-l registration. You are registered tb-l user. Topics are above. There is no possibility to have 5 different Accounts and one folder tree like in OE. You can only cheat but you newer hide 5 accounts. And this answer is in PSTB FAQ, you can find in forum and in tb-l. You can hide the accounts in a tree. You need to use color groups. Since some versions you can apply a color group to a folder. A new tab will appear by the bottom of the account tree. Select it. Voila. And filters? And many Inboxes? You have read questions? Perhaps it would be better to instead just explain exactly how to set things up. Once again: there is no such possibility. Over. But you still didn't explain what exactly is not possible :P. See posts dates and TB versions. See changelog and note date for: - virtual folders - folder tabs And think about: - options for global inbox and then when something arrive to this inbox filters sorting - extended and not manual - automatic account choosing by new message or answer EOT -- Thanks and best regards, Sebastian Murawski Current beta is (none) | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re[5]: The Bat! 4.0
Hello Gleason, Sunday, October 14, 2007, 5:59:25 PM, you wrote: GP I remember a techie friend in the early days of Firebird saying that GP it was superior because it introduced tabs. He didn't seem to think GP that Netscape had tabs. Never heard of Opera. So what was the GP secret? How did Moz get noticed? The thing about FF was that it offered improvements over IE in the areas of functionality, but more importantly, security. That made it very attractive to the geek community. They picked up in it early. When they went to help out their tech-challenged friends who had gotten 'clobbered' by some 'problem' in IE, they would tell them to use this here program. Then the tech journals picked up on it ... and then the main stream press got wind ... etc. I don't know that the same tactic will work here. For one thing, there are a lot of mail clients out there. When FF came out there were just a couple out there. Look at all the mail clients and some of them are quite functional. The other problem is that the 'benefits' are not as 'clear' in this situation. For example, I cannot use TB for MSN now that MS has changed the authentication (yet again sigh). -- Best regards, MikeDmailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Using The Bat! v3.99.25 on Windows XP 5.1 Build 2600 Service Pack 2 Current beta is (none) | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: The Bat! 4.0
Hello Sebastian, On Monday, October 15, 2007 Sebastian Murawski wrote: What is this:? Nie da się - każde konto musi mieć swój własny zestaw standardowych folderów. OK, true: each account has to have its own set of folders. But you can just hide them, and forget them. This doesn't really influence the way one can work with the programme. The solution is not technically identical with what other programmes do. It is however workable from the user's POV. I knot what, because I use that :). And you end up with (...) 6 topics with virtually the same content: -How do I...? -RTFM. Sometimes better write more. Or give an exact link not just read the manual. Otherwise we can replace all answers with Google it!. Please do not judge people that help other users. Oh, I'm not judging, I'm just roughly describing the content of the topics you linked. Roughly, means not exactly. This comment of mine was of more general nature. People that help maybe do not know this trick. You know - please write this, it is very important for many users. Help them but nor here. Well, I consider this a challenge. Okay, I'll do some research and write an article, why not. Up till now, I wasn't aware of the problem. So please support RITs and PSTB forum and only one time answer (you read, you know answer? you not answer - you are quite unhelpful?). I'm not even registered there and I just saw those posts Rules are the some like you accepted with tb-l registration. You are registered tb-l user. True. And it will remain so -- I don't like forums, so I'd rather stick to ML. Topics are above. There is no possibility to have 5 different Accounts and one folder tree like in OE. You can only cheat but you newer hide 5 accounts. And this answer is in PSTB FAQ, you can find in forum and in tb-l. You can hide the accounts in a tree. You need to use color groups. Since some versions you can apply a color group to a folder. A new tab will appear by the bottom of the account tree. Select it. Voila. And filters? And many Inboxes? You have read questions? You just wrote a few mails ago, that you know how to cheat that behavior using filters and common folders... Right? Perhaps it would be better to instead just explain exactly how to set things up. Once again: there is no such possibility. Over. But you still didn't explain what exactly is not possible :P. See posts dates and TB versions. See changelog and note date for: - virtual folders - folder tabs Oh... You got me with forum topics -- perhaps by the time those posts were sent, TB lacked the necessary functionality. But we are discussing the case here and now, hence we're settling our claims on the newest version. It was yesterday when you wrote it can't be done. And think about: - options for global inbox and then when something arrive to this inbox filters sorting - extended and not manual - automatic account choosing by new message or answer Can you give me more details on PM (and in Polish)? EOT Sure, EOT. Thanks for having a nice and inspiring discussion ;). Regards, KT -- Krzysztof Trybowski Gadu-Gadu: 1458144 --- Skype: trybowski AQQ: 141062 --- ICQ: 4350719 --- gpg key-id: 0xC937B0F2 Using The Bat! 3.99.24 [reg] under Windows XP 5.1 build 2600. Current beta is (none) | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re[6]: The Bat! 4.0
10/15/2007 8:31 AM Hi MikeD, On 10/15/2007 MikeD (2) wrote: M2 very attractive to the geek community. They picked up in it early. M2 When they went to help out their tech-challenged friends who had M2 gotten 'clobbered' by some 'problem' in IE, they would tell them to M2 use this here program. Hmm... Opera was around waay before Firefox and is waay more secure. A quick check at Secunia will confirm this. As I recall Firebird/Firefox started as a way to get rid of Netscape bloat and then morphed into the secure replacement for IE. If you want a safe browser get it here: http://kmeleon.sourceforge.net/ See its security history here: http://secunia.com/product/15549/?task=advisories M2 I cannot use TB for MSN now M2 that MS has changed the authentication (yet again sigh). What a wonderful opportunity to move to a more positive email host! 8-]} -- Take Care, Paul Voyager v.3.99.4 on Win2k SP4-Rollup1 5.0.2195 No IMAP OTFE Current beta is (none) | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re[2]: The Bat! 4.0
10/15/2007 8:47 AM Hi Krzysztof, On 10/15/2007 Krzysztof Trybowski wrote: Topics are above. There is no possibility to have 5 different Accounts and one folder tree like in OE. You can only cheat but you newer hide 5 accounts. And this answer is in PSTB FAQ, you can find in forum and in tb-l. You can hide the accounts in a tree. You need to use color groups. Since some versions you can apply a color group to a folder. A new tab will appear by the bottom of the account tree. Select it. Voila. And filters? And many Inboxes? You have read questions? KT You just wrote a few mails ago, that you know how to cheat KT that behavior using filters and common folders... Right? I'm still waiting for someone to transform my VW Rabbit into a Mercedes-Benz 350 SL. Why won't somebody do it for me? And preferably free! Making TB into OE is akin to the reverse of the above example! -- Take Care, Paul Voyager v.3.99.4 on Win2k SP4-Rollup1 5.0.2195 No IMAP OTFE Current beta is (none) | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: The Bat! 4.0
Sveiki, Hello all, Sunday, October 14, 2007, Sebastian Murawski wrote: When version change and you must pay for new licence? Yes, I expect really big changes and privately one little bugfix (regression fix) - https://www.ritlabs.com/bt/view.php?id=5690. did You paid for upgrade from 3.0 to 3.0.1, from 3.0.1 to 3.5, from 3.5 from 3.7 etc? And what are major improvements, new major features in this v3 builds? I remember one feature that now not exists. new filtering system, new customiser, rewritten message list pane, Unicode in many parts, Vista support etc. We've got new filtering system and a native XP look during v2.x beta cycle. Why rewrite it a third time? Ritlabs just don't get it. Users that use MAPI or IMAP does filtering ON THE SERVER. And they use IMAP's folder syncronization. That's they even doesn't need Voyager. Let's face it: TB! is long time pop3 client and it is still is. Most TB! features is for POP3 users (filters, antivirus/spam plugins, posibility to have it on the USB stick, etc.). For people that just want a working email client with their business inboxes it is not that atractive option anymore. -- Best regards, Vilius Current beta is 3.99.24 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: The Bat! 4.0
Hello TheBat Beta List Members!!! Someday, and that was in morning, Hans wrote something like this: I am a registered user of The Bat! but also of Pocomail, try this program, has a lot of features, The Bat! does not have! Or try Mokum Mail, http://www.blokker.net/whatsnew.htm As a registered user I always use this very safe program Thanks for advice, but there is no other email software that have so superb message templates implementation. Maybe sometimes it is buggy but with this all bugs is excellent. -- Thanks and best regards, Sebastian Murawski Current beta is 3.99.24 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re[2]: The Bat! 4.0
10/14/2007 5:34 AM Hi Sebastian, On 10/13/2007 Sebastian Murawski wrote: SM I paid also for v2 and remember promise about newsgroup support. I SM paid for this promise to. I do not recall this being a promise. -- Take Care, Paul Voyager v.3.99.4 on Win2k SP4-Rollup1 5.0.2195 No IMAP OTFE Current beta is 3.99.24 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re[2]: The Bat! 4.0
10/14/2007 5:38 AM Hi Hans, On 10/14/2007 Hans Stam wrote: HS I am a registered user of The Bat! but also of Pocomail, try this HS program, has a lot of features, The Bat! does not have! HS Or try Mokum Mail, http://www.blokker.net/whatsnew.htm HS As a registered user I always use this very safe program Hmm... HTML and no sig delimiter. Here comes the trout! I hope Pocomail is more stable for you than me! -- Take Care, Paul Voyager v.3.99.4 on Win2k SP4-Rollup1 5.0.2195 No IMAP OTFE Current beta is 3.99.24 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re[2]: The Bat! 4.0
10/14/2007 5:49 AM Hi Hans, On 10/14/2007 Hans Stam wrote: Or try Mokum Mail, http://www.blokker.net/whatsnew.htm As a registered user I always use this very safe program This is entertainment, not email. How safe is HTML only? Where are the email features? It looks like a crippled Dutch version of Incredimail. At least PocoMail has email features...not enough...not fast enough... -- Take Care, Paul Van Noord Voyager v.3.99.4 on Win2k SP4-Rollup1 5.0.2195 No IMAP OTFE Current beta is 3.99.24 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re[2]: The Bat! 4.0
10/14/2007 5:59 AM Hi Vilius, On 10/14/2007 Vilius Šumskas wrote: VŠ We've got new filtering system and a native XP look during v2.x beta cycle. Why rewrite it VŠ a third time? Ritlabs just don't get it. Users that use MAPI or IMAP VŠ does filtering ON THE SERVER. And they use IMAP's folder VŠ syncronization. That's they even doesn't need Voyager. Let's face it: TB! VŠ is long time pop3 client and it is still is. Most TB! features is for VŠ POP3 users (filters, antivirus/spam plugins, posibility to have it on VŠ the USB stick, etc.). For people that just want a working VŠ email client with their business inboxes it is not that atractive VŠ option anymore. You are entitled to speak for yourself. Now do something for yourself and go use a program that focuses on your specific needs instead of crying about one that doesn't. Voyager has been a literal life saver for me and many customers who are in parts of the world where it is mandatory to have one's email literally in their pocket to avoid persecution and possible death. -- Take Care, Paul Voyager v.3.99.4 on Win2k SP4-Rollup1 5.0.2195 No IMAP OTFE Current beta is 3.99.24 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: The Bat! 4.0
Hello TheBat Beta List Members!!! Someday, and that was in night, Marek wrote something like this: When version change and you must pay for new licence? Yes, I expect really big changes and privately one little bugfix (regression fix) - https://www.ritlabs.com/bt/view.php?id=5690. did You paid for upgrade from 3.0 to 3.0.1, from 3.0.1 to 3.5, from 3. 5 from 3.7 etc? And what are major improvements, new major features in this v3 builds? I remember one feature that now not exists. new filtering system, new customiser, rewritten message list pane, Unicode in many parts, Vista support etc. And in v4 we have plans for: - improved Unicode support - new GUI = new customiser, message list pane? [+] First usable new filtering system this feature is from TB 2.13 Lucky Beta1 And something about RIT updates: http://fileforum.betanews.com/review/942557075/2/view I do not remember all, some things can be major for You, some for another, for example downloading images to HTML is major for You, not for me - I like filtering system a lot... HTML images are not so important for me. For newsletters I use this http://konrad_sz.republika.pl/tb/htmlpics.htm old version http://konrad_sz.republika.pl/tb/htmlpics_old.htm But this is not for normal users. V3 was developed more than 3 years and You paid once only. Why You expect, all things will be introduced in 4.0? I paid also for v2 and remember promise about newsgroup support. I paid for this promise to. I really do not remember, RITLabs officialy promised this, You can read about this in interview with Stefan Tanurkov - 10 January 2000 are You really need this yet? No, I do not need. I work with local mail2news gateway - Hamster. For me Scoring system (like in 40tude - with NFS this is very good feature for discussion lists, emails, newsgroup gateways, antyspam ...) will be enough, but for normal people that want to use newsgroups? Tbird ore OE is answer? Like you can see, things that TB can not do I make with NFS, macros or gateways. But this is not for normal users - it is to difficult, not ergonomic. Here you have what other clients have: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_e-mail_clients In this comparison I create myself many thing about TB, new tables and features. There is question: maybe it is better to answer about IMAP in TB - 'Yes, works in 50%' or something like that? All questions with answer - 'Yes, with plugin' after v4 will be No. Why not wait when this two things are ready and then give users v4? because downloading images to HTML messages is much easier and is almost finished, templates affects more parts of program. You can say that for sure html templates will be available in v4 and this will be not next major version? Im not so sure. You have right, I do not know this for sure, but Max confirmed me, HTML templates are in list of planned features for V4 in 2008. Like usenet support. -- Thanks and best regards, Sebastian Murawski Current beta is 3.99.24 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: The Bat! 4.0
Hello TheBat Beta List Members!!! Someday, and that was in afternoon, Paul wrote something like this: Voyager has been a literal life saver for me and many customers who are in parts of the world where it is mandatory to have one's email literally in their pocket to avoid persecution and possible death. DynBat, MobileBat, TheBatch or JavaScript Mobilbat - that was before Voyager and works with full TheBat Pro version. Voyager is only Home version with OTFE password protection. -- Thanks and best regards, Sebastian Murawski Current beta is 3.99.24 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re[2]: The Bat! 4.0
10/14/2007 6:42 AM Hi Sebastian, On 10/14/2007 Sebastian Murawski wrote: SM DynBat, MobileBat, TheBatch or JavaScript Mobilbat - that was before SM Voyager and works with full TheBat Pro version. Voyager is only Home SM version with OTFE password protection. In your own words, But this is not for normal users - it is to difficult, not ergonomic. Also, I work in English. -- Take Care, Paul Voyager v.3.99.4 on Win2k SP4-Rollup1 5.0.2195 No IMAP OTFE Current beta is 3.99.24 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: The Bat! 4.0
Sveiki, 10/14/2007 5:59 AM Hi Vilius, On 10/14/2007 Vilius �umskas wrote: V� We've got new filtering system and a native XP look during v2.x beta cycle. Why rewrite it V� a third time? Ritlabs just don't get it. Users that use MAPI or IMAP V� does filtering ON THE SERVER. And they use IMAP's folder V� syncronization. That's they even doesn't need Voyager. Let's face it: TB! V� is long time pop3 client and it is still is. Most TB! features is for V� POP3 users (filters, antivirus/spam plugins, posibility to have it on V� the USB stick, etc.). For people that just want a working V� email client with their business inboxes it is not that atractive V� option anymore. You are entitled to speak for yourself. Now do something for yourself and go use a program that focuses on your specific needs instead of crying about one that doesn't. Voyager has been a literal life saver for me and many customers who are in parts of the world where it is mandatory to have one's email literally in their pocket to avoid persecution and possible death. I think you don't understand IMAP concept very well. It was created exactly for that kind of situations. You can access your emails in ANY PART of the world from one central place (e.g. the server). And you can do this without connecting to the internet because message base is cached on EVERY CLIENT you are using. Moreover if you don't have _your_ laptop around, most organizations had implemented webmail access for this. I hope you heard of such things as IMP, Zimbra or Outlook Web Access. By the way I don't use TB! for production nor at home nor at the office anymore and never looked back. I have one copy on my test machine though. And I'm not crying, I want to express my opinion on the things that's going on at Ritlabs for couple of last years. If there will be no viable bug fixes when 4.0 goes Gold I think I will leave TB! completely. -- Best regards, Vilius Current beta is 3.99.24 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: The Bat! 4.0
Hello all, Sunday, October 14, 2007, Sebastian Murawski wrote: And in v4 we have plans for: - improved Unicode support - new GUI = new customiser, message list pane? [+] First usable new filtering system this feature is from TB 2.13 Lucky Beta1 yes, this was 3.0 beta cycle, but for betatesters it was started as 2.13 with using old reg codes. And something about RIT updates: http://fileforum.betanews.com/review/942557075/2/view do You really trust fileforum comments? some of users who rated it with one star did not saw thebat yet... You can read about this in interview with Stefan Tanurkov - 10 January 2000 Yes, I know this interview and there is nothing about it will be surely implemented and when. -- Bye Marek Mikus Czech support of The Bat! http://www.thebat.cz Using the best The Bat! 3.99.24 under Windows XP 5.1 Build 2600 Service Pack 2 with MyMacros,XMP,AnotherMacros, NOD32 Antivirus plugin and AntispamSniper v 2.6.1.5 Notebook Toshiba, Core2 Duo 1.83 GHz, 1 GB RAM Current beta is 3.99.24 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re[2]: The Bat! 4.0
10/14/2007 8:12 AM Hi Vilius, On 10/14/2007 Vilius Šumskas wrote: VŠ I think you don't understand IMAP concept very well. It was created VŠ exactly for that kind of situations. You can access your emails in ANY PART of the VŠ world from one central place (e.g. the server). And you can do this VŠ without connecting to the internet because message base is cached on VŠ EVERY CLIENT you are using. I beg to differ. Having a message base reside on a server is exactly what needs to be avoided. The message base that resides in encrypted form on the flash drive in my pocket is under my control. I will need to be killed for someone to have access to it. I will not be killed because someone hacked a server to find me or find a reason to kill me. IMAP is exactly what I do _not_ want! -- Take Care, Paul Voyager v.3.99.4 on Win2k SP4-Rollup1 5.0.2195 No IMAP OTFE Current beta is 3.99.24 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: The Bat! 4.0
Sveiki, I beg to differ. Having a message base reside on a server is exactly what needs to be avoided. The message base that resides in encrypted form on the flash drive in my pocket is under my control. I will need to be killed for someone to have access to it. I will not be killed because someone hacked a server to find me or find a reason to kill me. IMAP is exactly what I do _not_ want! Oh please, don't be so into secret service. I work with journalists, people from EU commission and UN and none of them are as paranoid as you are. -- Best regards, Vilius Current beta is 3.99.24 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: The Bat! 4.0
I beg to differ. Having a message base reside on a server is exactly what needs to be avoided. The message base that resides in encrypted form on the flash drive in my pocket is under my control. I will need to be killed for someone to have access to it. I will not be killed because someone hacked a server to find me or find a reason to kill me. IMAP is exactly what I do _not_ want! OK. Let me put it this way. It doesn't matter what are you using POP3 or IMAP4. If your mail server is breached then message base is compromised anyway. Moreover messages can be intercepted before it even reaches your server. So that's why you should be using PGP/SMIME if your life depends on what you send. If you are using PGP or SMIME your messages are safe on a server also independetly what you are using POP3 or IMAP4. And if you don't trust PGP/SMIME encryption and are working for secret government and you chose such unsecure collaboration method as email, you should be using your goverments email server which is behind triple firewall with double encrypted internet connection on constantly monitored :) I hope this answers every aspect that you can come up with. -- Best regards, Vilius Current beta is 3.99.24 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re[2]: The Bat! 4.0
Hans, I am a registered user of The Bat! but also of Pocomail, try this program, has a lot of features, The Bat! does not have! Or try Mokum Mail, http://www.blokker.net/whatsnew.htm As a registered user I always use this very safe program Hans Thanks, I didn't know about Mokum. Yes, it is much easier to be an impressive email client if you don't consider Imap performance, or if the client doesn't do it at all. It is true that Poco looks a lot better if you don't consider Imap. -- Gleason Using 3.99.24 on Windows XP, 5.1, Build 2600. IMAP email provider is Fastmail, which uses Cyrus server software. Current beta is 3.99.24 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re[2]: The Bat! 4.0
Vilius, And what are major improvements, new major features in this v3 builds? I remember one feature that now not exists. new filtering system, new customiser, rewritten message list pane, Unicode in many parts, Vista support etc. We've got new filtering system and a native XP look during v2.x beta cycle. Why rewrite it a third time? Essentially, Thunderbird makes this necessary. Ritlabs just don't get it. Users that use MAPI or IMAP does filtering ON THE SERVER. Server sieves (as Mulberry calls them) are limited compared to what a client can do, and TB does. And they use IMAP's folder syncronization. That's they even doesn't need Voyager. Let's face it: TB! is long time pop3 client and it is still is. Every client out there is limited by its history. Mulberry started as an Imap client, Agent started as a newsreader, and in both cases their treatment of POP shows it. Eudora's and Pocomail's Imap clearly suffers for the same reason. I think the critics would do well to show us a complete Imap client that does not have difficulties of some sort. In fact, I dearly wish they would. I have looked hard and long for such a thing. -- Gleason Using 3.99.24 on Windows XP, 5.1, Build 2600. IMAP email provider is Fastmail, which uses Cyrus server software. Current beta is 3.99.24 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: The Bat! 4.0
On Sun, 14 Oct 2007 16:22:24 +0300, Vilius umskas wrote: I beg to differ. Having a message base reside on a server is exactly what needs to be avoided. The message base that resides in encrypted form on the flash drive in my pocket is under my control. I will need to be killed for someone to have access to it. I will not be killed because someone hacked a server to find me or find a reason to kill me. IMAP is exactly what I do _not_ want! OK. Let me put it this way. It doesn't matter what are you using POP3 or IMAP4. If your mail server is breached then message base is compromised anyway. [] I might add that imo carrying sensitive information around in a hostile environment is always riskier than keeping it in the relative safety of a server. If you get caught by unfriendly forces a little bit of applied pressure may all be all that's needed to reveal the hidden secrets of your flash drive. Arjan Current beta is 3.99.24 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: The Bat! 4.0
Ritlabs just don't get it. Users that use MAPI or IMAP does filtering ON THE SERVER. Server sieves (as Mulberry calls them) are limited compared to what a client can do, and TB does. It depends on the server you are using. For example Cyrus Sieve filtering system is as advanced as TB! if not more. You can filter by virtually any factor of the message (From:, Subject:, X-Spam: headers, body etc.) also you can match strings with regexps and tell what server should do with them (discard, move to folder, copy to folder, etc.). You can even rewrite parts of the message. -- Best regards, Vilius Current beta is (none) | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: The Bat! 4.0
Hello Sebastian, On Saturday, October 13, 2007 Sebastian Murawski wrote: Hello TheBat Beta List Members!!! Someday, and that was in evening, Marek wrote something like this: So 1. GUI - like in v3 upgrade afaik we can expect huge change in V4, nothing small as themes in V3 OK, but this is still only GUI - maybe big changes but this is still cosmetic thing for me. TB will look nicer. I think you miss the point of what UI is. The way you think about it seems to rather remind skins than GUI rework. The the truth is that GUI is not about the way TB looks, but about the way TB interacts with users. For quite a time I claim that GUI needs to be reworked heavily. There are many advanced features available in TB, but they are hard to use or at least they're not intuitive. Changing this and ensuring that more users will be able to use the features that already exist is a very valid thing to do. 2. Account wizard - it works now? .dsi files hmmm … It's a nice feature for newcomers. This is something that could make at least some people switch from webmails to proper way of using email. Therefore I support it. What normal user expect is: 1. HTML templates afaik we can expect them next year in 4.x However I agree with the idea, I strongly believe the first step would be to have proper HTML viewer, since the current one is way off. If anybody asked me, using a 3rd party viewer would ba a way to go. 2. HTML pictures I hope we will see it in 4.0 already. Why not wait when this two things are ready and then give users v4? I think this is a question of how long beta cycle we wish to have. RITs could introduce 4.0 betas and make a release 1,5 year later with all the features ready. Or they could divide it into parts and make 3 or 4 releases in between. Of course the licensing policy comes in way -- with more releases on a way, users will have to pay earlier for things that are to come later. In an opposite situation users will have to wait for new features till the day when all of them are ready (all planned features that is). Both ways have advantages and disadvantages. I prefer the way currently chosen, for I strongly suspect I will buy v4 eventually, so I'd prefer to do that sooner rather than later. 3. Account like in OE (example: one Incoming folder for couple Accounts) nice, but I do not expect this. And You can use common filters, do not You? Yes, I know how to cheat this behavior, but this is not 100% OE style. I believe you can set everything so that it works exactly as in OE. It takes some work though. Sure this could be automated. We can not wait? Or RITs can not wait to add really big changes and then go to v4? Major version comes with major improvements/changes. If you look at TB!'s history you'll see that progress is continuous and made in small steps. Only big companies can afford to make one big release every two-three years. I prefer to have a constant flow of new releases for this makes it possible for me to influence the development by stating my opinions. 8. Linux version I do not think, we will ever see The Bat! under Linux, if will be developed in Delphi. And really do not think, You can do business in this platform, nobody wants to pay for apps, because everything is free. I believe there's no need to rewrite the program's code. Just use WINE. There used to exist commercial programs released for Linux using WINE and they were fine. Nowadays, when computers are faster and faster, the question of having additional layer between the program and an OS is not any more a big issue -- nobody measures program's speed with a stopper. It would be enough to test TB under WINE and this way support Linux users. If a certain feature can't be supported, TB should degrade nicely so that users still can do their basic work. BTW I paid for v2 and v3. Now I will consider to buy v4 in one polish newspaper (Komputer Swiat) that offers TB full license (without update) for 2,5 Euro. List with full versions are here: http://www.ks-ekspert.pl/archiwum/info/pne/index.html Well, this is why a licensed copy is distributed through that magazine. You are absolutely allowed to use that version, so what's your point? For sure this policy gives profits to RITlabs, since otherwise they wouldn't continue the cooperation with KS. Regards, KT -- Krzysztof Trybowski Gadu-Gadu: 1458144 --- Skype: trybowski AQQ: 141062 --- ICQ: 4350719 --- gpg key-id: 0xC937B0F2 Using The Bat! 3.99.24 [reg] under Windows XP 5.1 build 2600. Current beta is (none) | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re[2]: The Bat! 4.0
10/14/2007 12:29 PM Hi Vilius, On 10/14/2007 Vilius Šumskas wrote: VŠ I hope this answers every aspect that you can come up with. Messages that reside for an hour or two on a highly encrypted server that are exchanged between accounts on the same server and then are _permanently_ deleted at the time of retrieval are the next best thing to exchanging highly encrypted messages directly between 2 parties where there is no intermediary. I am closing this discussion because apparently we will always differ. -- Take Care, Paul Voyager v.3.99.4 on Win2k SP4-Rollup1 5.0.2195 No IMAP OTFE Current beta is (none) | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: The Bat! 4.0
Hello TheBat Beta List Members!!! Someday, and that was in afternoon, Paul wrote something like this: In your own words, But this is not for normal users - it is to difficult, not ergonomic. You see this application even one time? Example: is it for you difficult to extract zip archive to folder and then run one bat file and after this open thebat with other then thebat.exe file? Then you can try usenet and use (or even only setup) TheBat with Hamster - maybe you see difference. -- Thanks and best regards, Sebastian Murawski Current beta is (none) | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: The Bat! 4.0
Hello TheBat Beta List Members!!! Someday, and that was in afternoon, Marek wrote something like this: And something about RIT updates: http://fileforum.betanews.com/review/942557075/2/view do You really trust fileforum comments? some of users who rated it with one star did not saw thebat yet... And many that write posts saying true. Rating is not for me important. You can read about this in interview with Stefan Tanurkov - 10 January 2000 Yes, I know this interview and there is nothing about it will be surely implemented and when. OK, so I will wait for plugin or internal implementation. 7 years and we do not have nothing. This is good example for HTM templates - Max confirmed me, HTML templates are in list of planned features for V4 in 2008. LG There is a rumor floating around that TB will include a usenet LG news reader. Is this true? ST I think so. We still have not decided on what it will look like - ST as a plug-in or as a built-in function... -- Thanks and best regards, Sebastian Murawski Current beta is (none) | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: The Bat! 4.0
Hello TheBat Beta List Members!!! Someday, and that was in afternoon, Krzysztof wrote something like this: So 1. GUI - like in v3 upgrade afaik we can expect huge change in V4, nothing small as themes in V3 OK, but this is still only GUI - maybe big changes but this is still cosmetic thing for me. TB will look nicer. I think you miss the point of what UI is. The way you think about it seems to rather remind skins than GUI rework. The the truth is that GUI is not about the way TB looks, but about the way TB interacts with users. For quite a time I claim that GUI needs to be reworked heavily. There are many advanced features available in TB, but they are hard to use or at least they're not intuitive. Changing this and ensuring that more users will be able to use the features that already exist is a very valid thing to do. But this is still old TB with only little improvements. Engine is still the some. 2. Account wizard - it works now? .dsi files hmmm … It's a nice feature for newcomers. This is something that could make at least some people switch from webmails to proper way of using email. Therefore I support it. I also support this feature, but this is not feature that is so important that we must change TB version or buy license update. 2. HTML pictures I hope we will see it in 4.0 already. Why not wait when this two things are ready and then give users v4? I think this is a question of how long beta cycle we wish to have. RITs could introduce 4.0 betas and make a release 1,5 year later with all the features ready. Or they could divide it into parts and make 3 or 4 releases in between. Of course the licensing policy comes in way -- with more releases on a way, users will have to pay earlier for things that are to come later. In an opposite situation users will have to wait for new features till the day when all of them are ready (all planned features that is). Both ways have advantages and disadvantages. I prefer the way currently chosen, for I strongly suspect I will buy v4 eventually, so I'd prefer to do that sooner rather than later. And this small steps bring us to point: 1. There is no new plugins and old are not developed 2. Big discussion lists and forums, sites slowly dying (tb-l, bat-mail.de.vu, pstb, TheBat! World) - no new users, no new posts, no new news. Tell me why this happen? 3. Account like in OE (example: one Incoming folder for couple Accounts) nice, but I do not expect this. And You can use common filters, do not You? Yes, I know how to cheat this behavior, but this is not 100% OE style. I believe you can set everything so that it works exactly as in OE. No. When you know how to do that please answer for this posts: http://thebat.pl/forum/viewtopic.php?id=1246 http://thebat.pl/forum/viewtopic.php?id=934 http://thebat.pl/forum/viewtopic.php?id=169 http://thebat.pl/forum/viewtopic.php?id=1053 http://thebat.pl/forum/viewtopic.php?id=377 http://thebat.pl/forum/viewtopic.php?id=35 -- Thanks and best regards, Sebastian Murawski Current beta is (none) | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: The Bat! 4.0
Vilius, On 13-10-2007 12:12, you wrote in mid:[EMAIL PROTECTED]: And by the way I'm using Office 2007 and Outlook Express at work at the moment and as a long time IMAP user (like 7 years), I still think that their IMAP is superior (I'm not talking about other their stuff though). I agree, . I hate the other missing features in Outlook 2007 but it handles IMAP way better than TB ever did. -- greeting Best regards /greeting author Peter Fjelsten /author thebat version 3.99.3 Pro /thebat versionextras MyGate, AVG /extras env. 2 POP3, 14 IMAP (Courier) 1 IMAP (Exchange 6.5), 200K+ msgs. /env. os Windows XP 5.1 Build 2600 Service Pack 2 /os Current beta is (none) | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re[2]: The Bat! 4.0
Sebastian, And this small steps bring us to point: 1. There is no new plugins and old are not developed 2. Big discussion lists and forums, sites slowly dying (tb-l, bat-mail.de.vu, pstb, TheBat! World) - no new users, no new posts, no new news. Tell me why this happen? A subject that has had some discussion in other email client lists. The most important problem for all clients, I think, is that young people mostly prefer webmail. No setup, and if it isn't working, somebody else will fix it real soon. In my case, I recently had the example of a friend of a friend whose son set her up with Hotmail as an introduction to using email. No amount of explaining advantages could convince her to do more than that. Just be simple and work please, and since I don't know anything about anything, let my son get it going for me. I believe you can set everything so that it works exactly as in OE. No. When you know how to do that please answer for this posts: Oh, Lord, why would anybody want another email client that acts like OE? If that is what you want, OE is free after all, and so is Foxmail for that matter. -- Gleason Using 3.99.25 on Windows XP, 5.1, Build 2600. IMAP email provider is Fastmail, which uses Cyrus server software. Current beta is (none) | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re[2]: The Bat! 4.0
Sebastian, In my case, I recently had the example of a friend of a friend whose son set her up with Hotmail as an introduction to using email. No amount of explaining advantages could convince her to do more than that. Just be simple and work please, and since I don't know anything about anything, let my son get it going for me. But this is not only new users or young people problem but also old? Why old useres for example changing TB for Tbird? Yes, as I said a while ago, the success of Tbird is one of the issues that Rit must deal with very soon. And I think glitter is very much a part of Tbird's appeal. I believe you can set everything so that it works exactly as in OE. No. When you know how to do that please answer for this posts: Oh, Lord, why would anybody want another email client that acts like OE? If that is what you want, When you read this topics on forum my nick is lazik - you will know that this is not my request and you will know why I not recommend OE like setup. I only want to say that new users that changing email client want OE like interface. That is all. Understood. Be simple and work. Also new and shiny helps. Actually, TB is not going to be simple, and people who have a lot of special email needs don't want it to be. The problem is that this is a rather small part of the overall email client market, and there are 10-15 other clients all aiming for that same group. TB really needs to stand out. Appearance is an important part of that. -- Gleason Using 3.99.25 on Windows XP, 5.1, Build 2600. IMAP email provider is Fastmail, which uses Cyrus server software. Current beta is (none) | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: The Bat! 4.0
Hello Sebastian, On Sunday, October 14, 2007 Sebastian Murawski wrote: I think you miss the point of what UI is. The way you think about it seems to rather remind skins than GUI rework. The the truth is that GUI is not about the way TB looks, but about the way TB interacts with users. For quite a time I claim that GUI needs to be reworked heavily. There are many advanced features available in TB, but they are hard to use or at least they're not intuitive. Changing this and ensuring that more users will be able to use the features that already exist is a very valid thing to do. But this is still old TB with only little improvements. Engine is still the some. Define engine. How does engine differ from feature set? Why do you claim engine is bad? Unless you have access to TB! internals, you can't tell. You can only judge by bugs in features -- which surely exist. But this doesn't mean, that reworking the UI means little progress. Of course it depends on how it will be done, and we really don't know that. But if the UI rework is done right, the progress will be very remarkable! New UI could make us able to use currently existing features, that are now a pain to use (quite a few of them). Hence, the new UI has a significance of all such features, even if they already exist. And one more thing -- the UI hasn't been reworked since the very beginning. There were just some small VISUAL enhancements by ver 3.5. New icons I don't count at all -- that's skinning and has nothing to do with UI improvements. It's really high time for UI rework! This is as far as UI rework is concerned. BUT... in general I agree that many features need to be improved and introduced. Whether the progress will justify paying for the licence again is yet to be seen. And this small steps bring us to point: 1. There is no new plugins and old are not developed 2. Big discussion lists and forums, sites slowly dying (tb-l, bat-mail.de.vu, pstb, TheBat! World) - no new users, no new posts, no new news. What's the connection between making new releases often and the above points? Tell me why this happen? I suspect a quite a big number of reasons are involved. Frequency of releases being a lesser one. I'd roughly say: -- company's management being inefficient (this includes PR, community cooperation, project management). -- quality management being down (lack of proper testing, leading to a programme being somewhat uneven -- some versions are stabile, while other are beta-quality. -- unclear rules of setting future goals, unrevealed roadmaps (which brings me the suspicion of non-existent roadmaps), lack of official wishlist with some sort of enduser preference checking. -- lack of vision But I look forward to v4. This may be a new era if only bigger pressure is put on quality. 3. Account like in OE (example: one Incoming folder for couple Accounts) Yes, I know how to cheat this behavior, but this is not 100% OE style. I believe you can set everything so that it works exactly as in OE. No. When you know how to do that please answer for this posts: Can you tell exactly which parts of OE style can't be set up in TB using currently existing features? I find it unclear, since... http://thebat.pl/forum/viewtopic.php?id=1246 http://thebat.pl/forum/viewtopic.php?id=934 http://thebat.pl/forum/viewtopic.php?id=169 http://thebat.pl/forum/viewtopic.php?id=1053 http://thebat.pl/forum/viewtopic.php?id=377 http://thebat.pl/forum/viewtopic.php?id=35 ...none of these posts contains a detailed question that could lead to a conclusion that it not true that you can set everything so that it works exactly as in OE. Hence I re-state my assertion: I believe you can set everything so that it works exactly as in OE. You do this using filters, common folders, color groups. This is too complicated, I agree. But it is possible, hence the engine contains all the required functions. The only problem is on the UI side -- there should exist an automated way to use the currently existing functions in order to allow inexperienced users benefit from those functions. This may of course come beyond the task UI rework as defined by RITLabs for v4, but we don't know that. Another thing I notice after reading the articles you liked above is that people on that forum seem to be quite unhelpful. Each topic starts with a question if it was possible to set TB up in an OE-manner. The answers are short and there are just two of them. Either no, or yes, using filters, and common folders, but it's not the right place to write more, look into manual. Perhaps it would be better to instead just explain exactly how to set things up. Regards, KT -- Krzysztof Trybowski Gadu-Gadu: 1458144 --- Skype: trybowski AQQ: 141062 --- ICQ: 4350719 --- gpg key-id: 0xC937B0F2 Using The Bat! 3.99.24 [reg] under Windows XP 5.1 build 2600.
Re[3]: The Bat! 4.0
Hello Gleason, Sunday, October 14, 2007, 3:19:49 PM, you scribbled: GP Yes, as I said a while ago, the success of Tbird is one of the issues GP that Rit must deal with very soon. And I think glitter is very much a GP part of Tbird's appeal. TBird is not glitter. It is a barebones, functional IMAP/POP client. You can glitz it up with themes and extensions, but the program itself is simple, it works and the average person can slide right into it. That is the appeal, the learning curve is not steep. Glitter, now your talking Pocomail. TB! and Pocomail share the same problem... to many moving parts for the average computer user, too many buttons and options to play with (and screw up). Joe Normal just wants to send and receive e-mail comfortably and reliably, that's it. TB! is aimed at a different user group than TBird. TB!'s market is (or should be) the corporate market, small/home business user and any professional that requires the advanced features TB! has to offer. TBird, according to it's devs (I'll find a quote when I have a chance) was intended to compete with OE for the average home user who just needs a basic e-mail client. The folks TB! is losing, I believe, are those who realize that it is too much for them. There are more features than need or care to figure out. They can go to TBird, set it up in seconds, hit send/receive, reply to Mom and they're done 'til tomorrow, why pay for TB! when TBird is free and much simpler? GP Actually, TB is not going to be simple, and people who have a lot of GP special email needs don't want it to be. The problem is that this is GP a rather small part of the overall email client market, and there are GP 10-15 other clients all aiming for that same group. TB really needs GP to stand out. Appearance is an important part of that. See above, TB! should not be aiming for the same user group that TBird does. In your own words people who have special e-mail needs..., that is TB!'s niche, not Ma and Pa Kettle who get 1 or 2 e-mails a day from the kids. Let Mozilla and MS fight over them... Unfortunately for RITLabs, (other than the fact that they have a crappy web site), they do not seem to be marketing towards the commercial sector very heavily. I know my company execs love the TB!/Voyager combo, however, reliability on the IMAP side makes it a nonstarter. We use our own IMAP server with WebDAV for shared info. For us, it is a lot more flexible than Exchange for the road warrior -- Regards, Mike TheBat! 3.99.25 on Windows Vista Current beta is (none) | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: The Bat! 4.0
Hello TheBat Beta List Members!!! Someday, and that was in evening, Krzysztof wrote something like this: And this small steps bring us to point: 1. There is no new plugins and old are not developed 2. Big discussion lists and forums, sites slowly dying (tb-l, bat-mail.de.vu, PSTB, TheBat! World) - no new users, no new posts, no new news. What's the connection between making new releases often and the above points? Read fileforum comments. This is only example. Tell me why this happen? I suspect a quite a big number of reasons are involved. Frequency of releases being a lesser one. I'd roughly say: - - company's management being inefficient (this includes PR, community cooperation, project management). - - quality management being down (lack of proper testing, leading to a programme being somewhat uneven -- some versions are stabile, while other are beta-quality. - - unclear rules of setting future goals, unrevealed roadmaps (which brings me the suspicion of non-existent roadmaps), lack of official wishlist with some sort of enduser preference checking. - - lack of vision But this is RITs side. Normal user do not see this. See product and history. You write about next level. Yes, I know how to cheat this behavior, but this is not 100% OE style. I believe you can set everything so that it works exactly as in OE. No. When you know how to do that please answer for this posts: Can you tell exactly which parts of OE style can't be set up in TB using currently existing features? I find it unclear, since... http://thebat.pl/forum/viewtopic.php?id=1246 http://thebat.pl/forum/viewtopic.php?id=934 http://thebat.pl/forum/viewtopic.php?id=169 http://thebat.pl/forum/viewtopic.php?id=1053 http://thebat.pl/forum/viewtopic.php?id=377 http://thebat.pl/forum/viewtopic.php?id=35 ...none of these posts contains a detailed question that could lead to a conclusion that it not true that you can set everything so that it works exactly as in OE. Hence I re-state my assertion: I believe you can set everything so that it works exactly as in OE. hmmm Belive or not but not everything. Once again - see above links. You do this using filters, common folders, color groups. This is too complicated, I agree. But it is possible, hence the engine contains all the required functions. The only problem is on the UI side -- there should exist an automated way to use the currently existing functions in order to allow inexperienced users benefit from those functions. This may of course come beyond the task UI rework as defined by RITLabs for v4, but we don't know that. Another thing I notice after reading the articles you liked above is that people on that forum seem to be quite unhelpful. When you activate account, you must accept rules. One of rule is that you not ask about something that is in manual or you can find in forum archive, tb-l archive and PSTB FAQ - use search option. Each topic starts with a question if it was possible to set TB up in an OE-manner. The answers are short and there are just two of them. Either no, So please support RITs and PSTB forum and only one time answer (you read, you know answer? you not answer - you are quite unhelpful?). Topics are above. There is no possibility to have 5 different Accounts and one folder tree like in OE. You can only cheat but you newer hide 5 accounts. And this answer is in PSTB FAQ, you can find in forum and in tb-l. Perhaps it would be better to instead just explain exactly how to set things up. Once again: there is no such possibility. Over. -- Thanks and best regards, Sebastian Murawski Current beta is (none) | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re[4]: The Bat! 4.0
Mike, TBird is not glitter. It is a barebones, functional IMAP/POP client. Right, barebones. But click on an account heading, or local folders. No, I think the glitter is there. You can glitz it up with themes and extensions, but the program itself is simple, Right. it works and the average person can slide right into it. That is the appeal, the learning curve is not steep. Glitter, now your talking Pocomail. Yes. And functionally crippled by poor implementation and bugginess in the case of Poco. Unfortunately for RITLabs, (other than the fact that they have a crappy web site), they do not seem to be marketing towards the commercial sector very heavily. I wonder how it was that seemingly everybody all at once became aware of Firebird/Thunderbird. I remember a techie friend in the early days of Firebird saying that it was superior because it introduced tabs. He didn't seem to think that Netscape had tabs. Never heard of Opera. So what was the secret? How did Moz get noticed? -- Gleason Using 3.99.25 on Windows XP, 5.1, Build 2600. IMAP email provider is Fastmail, which uses Cyrus server software. Current beta is (none) | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
