date:20050516






Basic Baptist Bathroom

A very proper lady began planning a
week's camping vacation for her and her Baptist Church group. 
She wrote to a campground for
reservations. 
She wanted to make sure that the
campground was fully equipped and modern, but couldn't bring herself to
write the word "toilet" in her letter. 
So, she decided on the old-fashioned
term "Bathroom Commode." 
Once written down she still was not
comfortable. 
Finally she decided on the abbreviation
"B.C." and wrote, "does your campground have its own "B.C.?" 
When the campground owner received the
letter, he couldn't figure out what she meant by "B.C." 
He showed it to several of the campers,
one of whom suggested the lady was obviously referring to a Baptist
Church since there was a letterhead on the paper which referred to a
Baptist Church. 
So he sent this reply. 
Dear Madam: 
The B.C. is located nine miles from the
camp ground in a beautiful grove of trees. 
I admit it is quite a distance if you
are in the habit of going regularly. 
No doubt you will be pleased to know
that it will seat 350 people at one time, and it is open on Tuesday,
Thursday, and Sunday of each week. 
Some folks like to take their lunch and
make a day of it. 
The acoustics are very good, so everyone
can hear even the quietest passages. 
It may interest you to know that my
daughter met her husband there. 
We are also having a fund-raiser to
purchase new seats, as the old ones have holes in them. 
Unfortunately my wife is ill and has not
been able to attend regularly. 
It's been a good six months since she
last went. 
It pains her very much not to be able to
go more often. 
As we grow older, it seems to be more of
an effort, especially in cold weather. 
Perhaps I could accompany you the first
time you go, sit with you, and introduce you to all the other folks who
will be there. 
I look forward to your visit. 
We offer a very friendly campground. 

-- 
~~~
Dave Hansen
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.langlitz.com
~~~
If you wish to receive
things I find interesting,
I maintain six email lists...
JOKESTER, OPINIONS, LDS,
STUFF, MOTORCYCLE and CLIPS.

RE: [TruthTalk] Toronto Blessing Alpha









I believe that is because there are now
laws that prohibit the RCC hierarchy from burning people at the stake for
reading scripture. So they play along. At least if they lead the Bible
studies they can brainwash their flock into making scripture inferior to the Traditions
of the Church. Izzy















There does seem to be a renaissance of Catholics reading and
studying the bible. Some are even moving beyond prescribed prayer. Not many but
it's a start. Perhaps they will reform the church.











Love,











Caroline

Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] Street Preaching

2005-05-16 Thread knpraise



The biblical idea that God is our Father is a New Covenant consideration. Whatever old testament scripture one can quote concerning God, it must now be seen as a statement concerning the Father. It is the wrath of a father thatis encountered in the new covenant age. In Christ, this father shed His blood for us -- while we were still sinners (and sinning). He does not leave that emotion behind when His emotion is one of anger or disappointment  no more than a father stops loving his children when they miss up their lives. In fact, some fathers love their children more in that circumstance. Grace and mercy are all the more present. 


Jd 




-Original Message-From: Ruben Israel [EMAIL PROTECTED]To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSent: Sun, 15 May 2005 20:13:50 -0700Subject: Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] Street Preaching





JD merely believes God is love and that He loves sinners while you believe He is angry with sinners 24/7


Can you please read me Psalm 7:11 and tell me what that verse is saying?

RE: [TruthTalk] Street Preaching









By your criteria were the OT prophets full
of the fruit of the Spirit? Or were they not affable enough? Izzy











From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Caroline Wong
Sent: Sunday, May 15, 2005 1:55 AM
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Street
Preaching







It is possible as I posted the story of the atheist meeting
the street preacher on Yonge St.
and finding him affable and easy to talk to. That was the street preacher
walking up and down while dressed as Jesus and carrying a cross. 











You know people by their fruit and this is the fruit of the
spirit: love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness,
gentleness and self-control











Love,











Caroline







- Original Message - 





From: ShieldsFamily






To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org






Sent: Saturday, May 14,
2005 7:33 PM





Subject: RE: [TruthTalk]
Street Preaching









Would you agree that it is at least
possible that the Holy Spirit can/does fill and guide street preachers also?
Izzy











From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Caroline Wong
Sent: Saturday, May 14, 2005 7:18
AM
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Street
Preaching







The OT prophets were filled with the Holy Spirit and
commissioned by God. Each word that he spoke was an inspiration of the Spirit.
I'll leave ya'll from various camps to decide for yourselves what the Street
Preachers are filled with and who commissioned them.











- Original Message - 







From: Judy Taylor






To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org






Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org






Sent: Saturday, May 14,
2005 1:47 AM





Subject: Re: [TruthTalk]
Street Preaching











I think the same could be said for every
one of the OT Prophets, that is, the ones through whom we received the





scriptures. They were all street
preachers and the reaction of Israel
before the dispersion was the equivalent of





this Baptist fellow. Psych case
huh? jt











On Fri, 13 May 2005 22:59:37 -0500 Caroline Wong [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:







This was posted on the discussion board of baptistboard.com
by dh1948. 











While visiting in Mobile
recently, my wife and I were downtown walking past the Bienville Square. Walking around in the
square was a street preacher. He was screaming...and I mean screaming...to the
top of his lungs as he sauntered around preaching. His message was one of hell
fire and brimstone...turn or burn. He sounded so angry.

I had no problem with his message, but his method caused me to ask my wife,
Do you think this is really glorifying to God? I question the
method of standing on a street corner or in a public square and screaming out a
gospel sermon. 

I thought, If I was a lost person, how would I react to this man and his
message? After all, I am the one he would be targeting, so just how would
I react? I have to say...with disgust. I would consider him to be a psych
case...a cultist of a sort. 

Before the castigation starts, I am not questioning the man's motive nor his
message...just his method. 

What do you think?

Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] Street Preaching

2005-05-16 Thread knpraise

I don't recall discussing "methods." Just a comparison of messages, perhaps. And I do not consider my way better than someone's elses.But a rebuke without love is nothing more than hate speech. I have seen the love in some of Ruben's writings. I just hope that his street ministry has that passion as its base. Drive by preaching is a waste of time. Its when you stay and struggle with those who are being saved via your ministry that the tide is turned. We have an equal responsibility to disciple those who are being saved. I don't hear much about that around here.

-Original Message-From: Terry Clifton [EMAIL PROTECTED]To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSent: Sun, 15 May 2005 21:39:01 -0500Subject: Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] Street Preaching

I did not see any put down, John. It just seemed from what you wrote that you considered your methods more loving than Ruben's.Terry [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

I laugh at your very last comment but I will not go beyond that. More than that, however, I am surprised that my comments would bring on such a response. I do not agree with the notion that we should be preaching the Christ apart from the love He commanded. That's all. There is no "put down" of Ruben intended or written. You disagree?

-Original Message-From: Terry Clifton [EMAIL PROTECTED]To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSent: Sun, 15 May 2005 19:55:30 -0500Subject: Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] Street Preaching

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

I personally have reason to respect Ruben Israel. My comments are not personal. But --- "different strokesfor different folks" is my response to Ruben's defense. What is in evidence, I suppose, is thatpreaching (including "street preaching")is an acceptable vehicle for spreading the message of hope. Except for the Noah example, what we have is a series of examplesof how the message was presented to the children of God --- the Jews.We are repeatedly reminded that among these people of God, few would respond. Perhaps Heb 6:4-6 explains why.No doubt, preaching the message of God's love apart from His disappointment (His wrath) gives one something less than the full picture. I incorporate the message of love in my ministry becau
se of the information I find in the letters of the apostles and prophets. The commands that bear repeating in I John are "love God" and "love the brethren." We are reminded that " no one has seen God at any time -- but if we love one another, God abides in us" I J 4:12. In fact, "if God loved us, we should love others" ( I J 4:11). I include the radical notion of love in my ministry because I see it in the words of Paul -- "I become all things to all men so that by all means I might save some." The fulfillment of the Law gave us liberty -- but Paul reminds us that we are constrained by -- aah love !! " The gospel of John presents the very reason for the Incarnation -- "Because God loved the world " The Fatherhood of God is an exclusive New Testamen
t consideration. At the centreof Fatherhood is this thing we seek to exclude - love. We dare not forget the very essence of God -- expressed in the statement "God is love." The letters of the apostles are full of considerate dialogue and loving guidance.Paul reminds us that knowledge has its limitations, but if we love, we are known by God. Where harsh straight talk may bethe way to the Jewish heart, it certainly was not the norm in other venues. I include love in my ministry because people need to know about it. Salute.

JD
==I see love on ruben's part. For God and for the lost sinner. How cpuld you stand the abuse day after day, year after year if you did not love those who abuse you. I am amazed that he hasn't punched someone out.Terry

RE: [TruthTalk] What I believe...and what I do not believe









Similarity: It puts you under. Izzy











From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Kevin Deegan
Sent: Sunday, May 15, 2005 1:25 PM
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] What I
believe...and what I do not believe







ETHER isn't that the stuff the dentist gives you when he has to extract
your wisdom teeth?

Bothoms
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

RE: [TruthTalk] Fw: Rikk Watts on Genesis 1









Maybe its McDonalds thats
going to hell? iz











From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Caroline Wong
Sent: Sunday, May 15, 2005 2:46 PM
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Rikk
Watts on Genesis 1







That's really bad news for so many Americans.











Terry, is it possible that God saves a glutton
because He is able to and He wants to?











Love,











Caroline







- Original Message - 





From: Terry
Clifton 





To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org






Sent: Sunday, May
15, 2005 2:03 PM





Subject: Re:
[TruthTalk] Fw: Rikk Watts on Genesis 1









[EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote: 













For the most part, we are fat
because we consume too many calories. Call it gluttony; call it
over-eating. It damages the temple of God.
Why is this person saved and the confessing pervert
lost? tc: If a person is a
glutton, sin is the pattern of their life and they are lost, as is the pervert
who refuses to deny self . I do not know why. I just know
that he is. I suppose
one reason would be that the Bible says so and the Bible is the word of God.
I would consider that a good enough reason
that I would not question it. Sins of omission will send us to hell,
under your gospel. How many minutes can I sit watching TV while
not, at the same time, preaching to the lost? If you are watching the stuff Lance watches, not long.
I collect 1:18 model cars. I just spent $250 on a 1955 Mercedes
with something like 3600 individual parts - going to hell
until I repent, take the car back and give the money to the local church or a
needy ministry or a needy person? 





Had you
seen a needy person on your way to buy that car, would you have not spent the
money on that person. Seems I remember you doing something similar
before.
















-Original Message-
From: Judy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: Sun, 15 May 2005 11:25:07 -0400
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Rikk Watts on Genesis 1





As Terry said - all
fat ppl are not gluttons but if you are concerned or interested here's a Bible
Study:











Gluttony 
Drunkenness seem to go together like siamese twins (as an attitude of the
heart) and under the Old





Covenant they they
were cause for a rebellious son who would not listen to be stoned (Deuteronomy
21:20)











These two are also
mentioned in tandemin Proverbs 23:20





Isaiah 5:21,22





Luke 21:34,35





Romans 13:13,14





Ephesians 5:18,19

















On Sun, 15 May 2005 10:56:15 -0400
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
writes:











Is gluttony a sin?




From: Terry Clifton [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Just as with a rich man, all things are possible in Christ.



[EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote: 





Are fat Christians save

RE: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] baptism









Raymond, note that I went back and ALSO
showed you the scriptures that said GOD hardened Pharaohs heart; did you
read those??? I also asked if you believe ALL of those scriptures, or
only the ones that you agree with. Im still waiting for answer,
please. Id really like to know. Izzy











From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Bothoms
Sent: Sunday, May 15, 2005 1:56 PM
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Subject: RE: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk]
[TruthTalk] baptism







Look ! I answered the question. The question was Have you
not read the book of Exodus, or do you just disagree with it when it says the
Lord hardened Pharaohs heart?



I
answered that I have read Exodus -- in fact, I probably know the book
better than you. As for the other part of the question, I quoted verses
that say that Pharaoh hardened his own heart. Go back and read it .
And not just selectively read it.





Kevin Deegan
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:







OK the question was 
do you just disagree with it when it says the Lord hardened
Pharaohs heart?



and?




Bothoms
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:







I did and my reply was suited to it.

Kevin Deegan
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 



Read the rest of the post!





Izzy: Raymond, Have you not read
the book of Exodus, or do you just disagree with it when it says the Lord
hardened Pharaohs heart?



See the ?
that indicates a QUESTION





Bothoms
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:







Are you a nut?

Kevin Deegan
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 



Have you noticed? Raymond is not able to answer any questions!





Q What color is your shirt?





A I like golf.











Q Which way to Canada?





A I Drive a chevy.

Bothoms
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:







Izzy: Raymond, Have you not read the book of Exodus,
or do you just disagree with it when it says the Lord hardened Pharaohs
heart?

Raymond: Yes, I have read Exodus. Take a look
at the following

And the magicians of Egypt did so with their
enchantments: and Pharaohs heart was
hardened, neither did he hearken unto
them; as the LORD had said. And Pharaoh turned and went into his house, neither did he set his heart to this also.
(Ex 7:22-23)

But when Pharaoh saw that there was respite, he hardened his heart, and hearkened not unto them; as the LORD had
said. (Ex 8:15)

Then the magicians said unto Pharaoh, This is the finger of God: and Pharaohs heart was hardened, and he hearkened not unto them; as the LORD had
said. (Ex 8:19)

And Pharaoh
hardened his heart at this time also, neither would he let the
people go. (Ex 8:32)

And Pharaoh sent, and, behold, there was not one of
the cattle of the Israelites dead. And the
heart of Pharaoh was hardened, and he did not let the people
go. (Ex 9:7)

And when Pharaoh saw that the rain and the hail and
the thunders were ceased, he sinned yet more,
and hardened his heart, he
and his servants. And the heart of Pharaoh
was hardened, neither would he let the children Israel go; as
the LORD had spoken. (Ex 9:34-35)

Wherefore then do ye
harden your hearts, as the
Egyptians and Pharaoh hardened their hearts? when he had wrought
wonderfully among them, did they not let the people go, and they
departed? (1Sam 6:6)











Discover Yahoo!
Get on-the-go sports scores, stock quotes, news  more. Check
it out!











Yahoo! Mail
Stay connected, organized, and protected. Take the tour











Yahoo! Mail
Stay connected, organized, and protected. Take the tour

RE: [TruthTalk] Fw: Rikk Watts on Genesis 1











And HOW does he tell us this? And what
does He do if we IGNORE Him? Izzy













He tells us when we're wrong (judgment) so that we can turn
and do right. 





Love,











Caroline

[TruthTalk] So many posts; then none.









I didnt look at TT for a day or so
and then there were 184 posts! Now its after 9pm and I havent
gotten a post since 3 pm. All these posts must have crashed TT I guess?
Izzy

Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] Street Preaching

2005-05-16 Thread Judy Taylor




I don't think so JD; under the Old Covenant God called 
Israel as a nation His son and they sure suffered (leaving an
example for us not to follow); behold the goodness and 
the severity of God. 

Your object lesson is limitedJD because 
earthly fathers don't have the same problems with 
divine justice and/or holiness and their offspring are born in their 
image. But because of His love God takes no pleasure in the death of the 
wicked but it has and will continue to happen and ppl 
need to be warned. God is no heavenly replica 
of an earthly father. jt

On Mon, 16 May 2005 02:31:47 -0400 [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

  
  
  The biblical idea that God is our Father is a New Covenant 
  consideration. Whatever old testament scripture one can 
  quote concerning God, it must now be seen as a statement concerning the 
  Father. It is the wrath of a father thatis encountered in the new 
  covenant age. In Christ, this father shed His blood for us 
  -- while we were still sinners (and 
  sinning). He does not leave that emotion behind when His emotion 
  is one of anger or disappointment  no more 
  than a father stops loving his children when they miss up their 
  lives. In fact, some fathers love their children 
  more in that circumstance. Grace and mercy are all the more 
  present. Jd 
  
  From: Ruben Israel [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  
  
  
  

  JD merely believes God is love and that He 
  loves sinners while you believe He is angry with sinners 24/7
  
  
  Can you please read me Psalm 7:11 and 
  tell me what that verse is saying?

Re: [TruthTalk] Street Preaching

2005-05-16 Thread Judy Taylor




I don't believe Jesus was at this time using Himself as 
the example Caroline; remember He was born in Israel under the Law andhis 
culture at the timetax collectors and pagans wereostracised and made 
outcastswhich is similar to what Paul counselled the Corinthian Church to 
do with the man whorefused to repent of his moral issues and accept 
correction. Paul advised turning him over toSatan for the destruction of 
the flesh with the hope that he would later repent and his soul wouldbe 
saved 

We've not learned this lesson and this is why we are 
not receiving a whole lot from God. Under the Old Covenant everyone was 
expected to follow the Law which is our friend rather than an enemy; God's 
Commandments arn't grievious... and yes forgiveness is paramount if we want to 
walk with God. jt

On Sun, 15 May 2005 22:59:14 -0500 "Caroline Wong" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

  Step 4. and if your brother refuses to listen to 
  the church, treat him as you would a pagan or a tax collector.
  
  Step 5. and how did Jesus treat pagans and tax 
  collectors? He did not expect them to be able to follow the law and be 
  righteous. He loved them and ate with them. And they enjoyed his 
  presence.
  
  Then Peter asked Jesus, how many times am I 
  suppose to forgive my brother? Seventy times seven according to some 
  manuscripts. Then Jesus told a parable that tells us how much we've been 
  forgiven and warns us against unforgiveness. Interesting sidebar: the moral of 
  the story was not - you've been forgiven much so you better be good! but 
  you've been forgiven much so you ought to forgive those who sinned against 
  you.
  
From: Kevin 
Deegan 

IF Johnson is a Christian and that is a big if
Gal 6:1 Brethren, if a man be overtaken in a fault, 
ye which are spiritual, restore such an one in the spirit of meekness; 
considering thyself, lest thou also be tempted.
Matthew 18:15-18, Jesus outlines three steps to take in talking to your 
brother, in dealing with unrepentant sin.

STEP 1 GO TO YOUR BROTHER: Moreover 
if thy brother shall trespass against thee, go and tell him his fault 
between thee and him alone: if he shall hear thee, 
thou hast gained thy brother.
STEP 2 BRING OTHER BRO's WITH YOU: But if he will not hear thee, then take with thee one or two 
more, that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be 
established.
STEP 3 TAKE IT TO THE 
CHURCH: And if he shall neglect to hear them, 
tell it unto the church: but if he neglect to hear the church, let him be 
unto thee as an heathen man and a publican.
He ignored all 
three of these. What a example of a Man of God! Did 
any of these guys come to us as commanded by the scriptures? NO Instead of 
following the scriptures, and bringing it before the Church, Mr Johnson went 
right to the news Media and used our reputations as his springboard into a 
bigger more profitable ministry. A friend of mine interviewed on radio an 
associate of Mr Johnson. When asked if he tried to do MT 18, said he came 
down to the temple but could not find us. ROTFL what a liar. Maybe we are 
not as loud as some claim. And those 6 foot by 4 foot banners over our heads 
are not easy to spot!
SINCE MR Johnson and his friends ignore MT 18 I think it only fair for us 
to follow thru on what he did not. We have attempted to talk to them as 
outlined and should now treat him as directed 
"let him be unto thee as an heathen man and a 
publican."Caroline Wong 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

  
  

  From ChristianityToday.com http://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/2004/002/14.18.html
  Looks like I'm not the only Christian who 
  felt bad about what happened at the LDS conference
  
  Winning Them SoftlyEvangelicals try to reach Mormons with respectand hard 
  science.By John W. 
  Kennedy | posted 
  01/16/2004
  After years of ineffective and often acrimonious 
  evangelism by various preachers and groups, a new coalition of evangelical 
  clergy in Utah is attempting to treat Latter-day Saints (LDS) with 
  respect.
  Many orthodox Christians have denounced LDS theology 
  throughout the church's history. Not surprisingly, leaders of the 11.7 
  million-member Salt Lake Citybased church have expressed both resentment 
  and distrust.
  At the LDS semiannual general conference in October, 
  adherents of the Utah chapter of World Wide Street Preachers Fellowship 
  stomped on underclothes that LDS members consider holy. They also 
  pretended to blow their noses and wipe their bottoms with the 
garments.
  Three dozen evangelical leaders condemned the 
actions.
  "You don't take what is sacred to another faith and 
  denigrate it," said Greg C.V. Johnson, who leads Standing Together, a Salt 
  Lake City ministry to

RE: [TruthTalk] Toronto Blessing Alpha


Jer 13:23 Can the Ethiopian change his skin, or the leopard his spots? then may ye also do good, that are accustomed to do evil.







There does seem to be a renaissance of Catholics reading and studying the bible. Some are even moving beyond prescribed prayer. Not many but it's a start. Perhaps they will reform the church.



Love,



Caroline__Do You Yahoo!?Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com

RE: [TruthTalk] Street Preaching

How about Paul? Why did he have so much trouble thru the book of Acts?ShieldsFamily [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:









By your criteria were the OT prophets full of the fruit of the Spirit? Or were they not affable enough? Izzy





From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Caroline WongSent: Sunday, May 15, 2005 1:55 AMTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSubject: Re: [TruthTalk] Street Preaching


It is possible as I posted the story of the atheist meeting the street preacher on Yonge St. and finding him affable and easy to talk to. That was the street preacher walking up and down while dressed as Jesus and carrying a cross. 



You know people by their fruit and this is the fruit of the spirit: love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control



Love,



Caroline


- Original Message - 

From: ShieldsFamily 

To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 

Sent: Saturday, May 14, 2005 7:33 PM

Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Street Preaching


Would you agree that it is at least possible that the Holy Spirit can/does fill and guide street preachers also? Izzy





From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Caroline WongSent: Saturday, May 14, 2005 7:18 AMTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSubject: Re: [TruthTalk] Street Preaching


The OT prophets were filled with the Holy Spirit and commissioned by God. Each word that he spoke was an inspiration of the Spirit. I'll leave ya'll from various camps to decide for yourselves what the Street Preachers are filled with and who commissioned them.



- Original Message - 


From: Judy Taylor 

To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 

Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 

Sent: Saturday, May 14, 2005 1:47 AM

Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Street Preaching



I think the same could be said for every one of the OT Prophets, that is, the ones through whom we received the

scriptures. They were all street preachers and the reaction of Israel before the dispersion was the equivalent of

this Baptist fellow. Psych case huh? jt



On Fri, 13 May 2005 22:59:37 -0500 "Caroline Wong" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:


This was posted on the discussion board of baptistboard.com by dh1948. 



While visiting in Mobile recently, my wife and I were downtown walking past the Bienville Square. Walking around in the square was a street preacher. He was screaming...and I mean screaming...to the top of his lungs as he sauntered around preaching. His message was one of hell fire and brimstone...turn or burn. He sounded so angry.I had no problem with his message, but his method caused me to ask my wife, "Do you think this is really glorifying to God?" I question the method of standing on a street corner or in a public square and screaming out a gospel sermon. I thought, "If I was a lost person, how would I react to this man and his message?" After all, I am the one he would be targeting, so just how would I react? I have to say...with disgust. I
 would consider him to be a psych case...a cultist of a sort. Before the castigation starts, I am not questioning the man's motive nor his message...just his method. What do you think? 


		Yahoo! Mail 
Stay connected, organized, and protected. Take the tour

RE: [TruthTalk] Fw: Rikk Watts on Genesis 1

Through feelings? Through our heart? Through our understanding?ShieldsFamily [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:








And HOW does he tell us this? And what does He do if we IGNORE Him? Izzy





He tells us when we're wrong (judgment) so that we can turn and do right. 

Love,



Caroline__Do You Yahoo!?Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com

Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] Street Preaching

CW says Kevin, do you preach the same way you post here?
Why would you ask. You have posted extensively on it, and now you want toKNOW how I preach? Need more gossip I mean prayer requests for the Brethren?
Don't you think you Mr Johson should haveobeyed Matt 18 and not skipped step 1,2,3 and gone direct to the News media?
Do you think christians that have a problem with Street Preaching should have gossip sessions with the brethren but not discuss their concerns with the SP? MT 18
Do you think the brethren should upon hearing that a SP did such and such go right to the brethren to repeat the story? Do you think it is possible that some Lost would have no problem creating lies to perpetuate? Do you think it possible that some lostwould devise Devices, and use these to divide and conquer? ( that is their design separate the brethren)Wheres the UNITY? Why is it that Christians will believe a story from a Mormon, agospel hater, a shop keeper concerned over mamon, even a satanist,and not take it to the offender (SP) when they have the opportunity?But they will take it direct to the Brethren? Do you think it is possible that some lost may actually hate the gospel? some may beactual enemies of the gospel?
Christianity Today put my picture in that article. Did they even talk to any of us whoose reputation they dragged thru the mud, for our side of the story? The story must be gospel it is in print you know. 
Just wondering...Caroline Wong [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


His code applies to you... and me. To all sinners. 

Kevin, do you preach the same way you post here?

- Original Message - 
From: Kevin Deegan 
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
Sent: Sunday, May 15, 2005 7:57 PM
Subject: Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] Street Preaching

I incorporate the message of love in my ministry becau se of the information I find in the letters of the apostles and prophets. The commands that bear repeating in I John are "love God" and "love the brethren."
Does your code also apply if you were preaching to a bunch of SODOMites?
What would you preach seems like a popular message "God loves you just the way you are?"[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:



I personally have reason to respect Ruben Israel. My comments are not personal. But --- "different strokesfor different folks" is my response to Ruben's defense. What is in evidence, I suppose, is thatpreaching (including "street preaching")is an acceptable vehicle for spreading the message of hope. Except for the Noah example, what we have is a series of examplesof how the message was presented to the children of God --- the Jews.We are repeatedly reminded that among these people of God, few would respond. Perhaps Heb 6:4-6 explains why.No doubt, preaching the message of God's love apart from His disappointment (His wrath) gives one something less than the full picture. I
 incorporate the message of love in my ministry becau se of the information I find in the letters of the apostles and prophets. The commands that bear repeating in I John are "love God" and "love the brethren." We are reminded that " no one has seen God at any time -- but if we love one another, God abides in us" I J 4:12. In fact, "if God loved us, we should love others" ( I J 4:11). I include the radical notion of love in my ministry because I see it in the words of Paul -- "I become all things to all men so that by all means I might save some." The fulfillment of the Law gave us liberty -- but Paul reminds us that we are constrained by -- aah love !! " The gospel of John presents the very reason for the Incarnation --
 "Because God loved the world " The Fatherhood of God is an exclusive New Testament consideration. At the centreof Fatherhood is this thing we seek to exclude - love. We dare not forget the very essence of God -- expressed in the statement "God is love." The letters of the apostles are full of considerate dialogue and loving guidance.Paul reminds us that knowledge has its limitations, but if we love, we are known by God.  Where harsh straight talk may bethe way to the Jewish heart, it certainly was not the norm in other venues.  I include love in my ministry because people need to know about it. Salute.


JD
-Original Message-From: Ruben Israel [EMAIL PROTECTED]To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSent: Sun, 15 May 2005 14:46:34 -0700Subject: Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] Street Preaching


To those that wish to comment on "street preaching," take note:Noah was called a "preacher of righteousness" during his time slot he preached righteousness to a perverted people and did anyone get saved? Would it have been more prudent for him to use his three sons and maybe start a band, singing to sinners in that wicked generation and using this friendship evangelism rather than preaching?Isaiah was told to "Lift aloud, spare not, lift up thy voice like a trumpet, and shew my people their transgressions and the house of Jacob their sins" (Is.58:1). Do we find Isaiah

Re: [TruthTalk] Street Preaching

Then why not say that? You know Jesus is always trying to trick us, LOL treat him like a Pagan!!! What a great opportunity for Jesus to teach your gospel and he blew it. 

Or are you sayingGO outand find some pagans to minister to?Caroline Wong [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


Step 4. and if your brother refuses to listen to the church, treat him as you would a pagan or a tax collector.

Step 5. and how did Jesus treat pagans and tax collectors? He did not expect them to be able to follow the law and be righteous. He loved them and ate with them. And they enjoyed his presence.

Then Peter asked Jesus, how many times am I suppose to forgive my brother? Seventy times seven according to some manuscripts. Then Jesus told a parable that tells us how much we've been forgiven and warns us against unforgiveness. Interesting sidebar: the moral of the story was not - you've been forgiven much so you better be good! but you've been forgiven much so you ought to forgive those who sinned against you.

- Original Message - 
From: Kevin Deegan 
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
Sent: Sunday, May 15, 2005 8:16 PM
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Street Preaching

IF Johnson is a Christian and that is a big if
Gal 6:1 Brethren, if a man be overtaken in a fault, ye which are spiritual, restore such an one in the spirit of meekness; considering thyself, lest thou also be tempted.
Matthew 18:15-18, Jesus outlines three steps to take in talking to your brother, in dealing with unrepentant sin.

STEP 1 GO TO YOUR BROTHER: Moreover if thy brother shall trespass against thee, go and tell him his fault between thee and him alone: if he shall hear thee, thou hast gained thy brother.
STEP 2 BRING OTHER BRO's WITH YOU: But if he will not hear thee, then take with thee one or two more, that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.
STEP 3 TAKE IT TO THE CHURCH: And if he shall neglect to hear them, tell it unto the church: but if he neglect to hear the church, let him be unto thee as an heathen man and a publican.
He ignored all three of these. What a example of a Man of God! Did any of these guys come to us as commanded by the scriptures? NO Instead of following the scriptures, and bringing it before the Church, Mr Johnson went right to the news Media and used our reputations as his springboard into a bigger more profitable ministry. A friend of mine interviewed on radio an associate of Mr Johnson. When asked if he tried to do MT 18, said he came down to the temple but could not find us. ROTFL what a liar. Maybe we are not as loud as some claim. And those 6 foot by 4 foot banners over our heads are not easy to spot!
SINCE MR Johnson and his friends ignore MT 18 I think it only fair for us to follow thru on what he did not. We have attempted to talk to them as outlined and should now treat him as directed "let him be unto thee as an heathen man and a publican."Caroline Wong [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:




From ChristianityToday.com http://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/2004/002/14.18.html
Looks like I'm not the only Christian who felt bad about what happened at the LDS conference

Winning Them SoftlyEvangelicals try to reach Mormons with respectand hard science.By John W. Kennedy | posted 01/16/2004
After years of ineffective and often acrimonious evangelism by various preachers and groups, a new coalition of evangelical clergy in Utah is attempting to treat Latter-day Saints (LDS) with respect.
Many orthodox Christians have denounced LDS theology throughout the church's history. Not surprisingly, leaders of the 11.7 million-member Salt Lake Citybased church have expressed both resentment and distrust.
At the LDS semiannual general conference in October, adherents of the Utah chapter of World Wide Street Preachers Fellowship stomped on underclothes that LDS members consider holy. They also pretended to blow their noses and wipe their bottoms with the garments.
Three dozen evangelical leaders condemned the actions.
"You don't take what is sacred to another faith and denigrate it," said Greg C.V. Johnson, who leads Standing Together, a Salt Lake City ministry to Mormons. "It doesn't take courage to treat a person you disagree with in a disdaining fashion."
Johnson said he has been trying to build trust with LDS leaders for nearly three years. James Ayers, pastor of Valley Assembly of God, and 22 other evangelical leaders gathered at a press conference to denounce the street preachers.
"You don't build any bridges with actions like that," Ayers said. "Our purpose is to let the community know that these people don't represent all Christians in the city. We believe people need to be treated with dignity."
Mormon-evangelical dialogue isn't new, but until now it has been limited in scope. Johnson has engaged in high-level talks with Mormon leaders, and he has received two letters of gratitude from LDS apostles for denouncing the tactics of the street preachers.
Civil discourseHe believes that evangelicals have a greater

Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] Street Preaching

Right and of course it is not possible that we are not shouting (you False witness) and that the sinners are angry because they are not ready to hear God's word but came to an event to sin with both hands earnestly? Caroline Wong [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

Paul ran into trouble for the same reason JD did. He was saying something the people weren't prepared to hear. When you do that, you don't have to shout to get people angry. Paul told the Jews that there is a new covenant, and a new way to salvation which included the Gentiles. JD merely believes God is love and that He loves sinners while you believe He is angry with sinners 24/7

- Original Message - 
From: Kevin Deegan 
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
Sent: Sunday, May 15, 2005 8:47 PM
Subject: Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] Street Preaching

Does the Book of Acts have an ending or should that style of preaching continue today?

If we are to preach the NT "love gospel" why did paul run into so much trouble?

Acts 13:45 But when the Jews saw the multitudes, they were filled with envy, and spake against those things which were spoken by Paul, contradicting and blaspheming.13:50 But the Jews stirred up the devout and honourable women, and the chief men of the city, and raised persecution against Paul and Barnabas, and expelled them out of their coasts.
(LDS emulate Jews)
14:5 And when there was an assault made both of the Gentiles, and also of the Jews with their rulers, to use them despitefully, and to stone them,
14:19 And there came thither certain Jews from Antioch and Iconium, who persuaded the people, and having stoned Paul, drew him out of the city, supposing he had been dead.
16:23 And when they had laid many stripes upon them, they cast them into prison, charging the jailor to keep them safely
18:6 And when they opposed themselves, and blasphemed
19:23 And the same time there arose no small stir about that way.
19;32 Some therefore cried one thing, and some another: for the assembly was confused
20:23 Save that the Holy Ghost witnesseth in every city, saying that bonds and afflictions abide me.
22:22-24 And they gave him audience unto this word, and then lifted up their voices, and said, Away with such a fellow from the earth: for it is not fit that he should live. And as they cried out, and cast off their clothes, and threw dust into the air The chief captain commanded him to be brought into the castle, and bade that he should be examined by scourging
23:2 And the high priest Ananias commanded them that stood by him to smite him on the mouth.
23:10 And when there arose a great dissension, the chief captain, fearing lest Paul should have been pulled in pieces of them, commanded the soldiers to go down, and to take him by force from among them, and to bring him into the castle.
23:12 And when it was day, certain of the Jews banded together, and bound themselves under a curse, saying that they would neither eat nor drink till they had killed Paul.
24:5-6 For we have found this man a pestilent fellow, and a mover of sedition among all the Jews throughout the world, and a ringleader of the sect of the Nazarenes: Who also hath gone about to profane the temple: whom we took, and would have judged according to our law.

Ruben Israel [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
To those that wish to comment on "street preaching," take note:Noah was called a "preacher of righteousness" during his time slot he preached righteousness to a perverted people and did anyone get saved? Would it have been more prudent for him to use his three sons and maybe start a band, singing to sinners in that wicked generation and using this friendship evangelism rather than preaching?Isaiah was told to "Lift aloud, spare not, lift up thy voice like a trumpet, and shew my people their transgressions and the house of Jacob their sins" (Is.58:1). Do we find Isaiah preaching a message of God wants you just the way you are? Find out how many messages he preached using the word "Woe" vs. "God loves you".Jeremiah was told to go and cry out against cities, people, individuals and a temple, his message was about as in your face
 as one can get. Should he have possibly just tried to get to know everyone, maybe coffee and pie, perhaps this result would have been fruitful and the message would have been accepted? In retrospect was it all Jeremiah's fault?Ezekiel, now here is someone I enjoy reading, this man uses more visual aids with his preaching (see Ezekiel for details) and again where do we find this message of God loves you even once in forty eight chapters? He was the watchman warning sinners of their sin. Ringing the bell, sounding the alarm, echoing caution, pointing out the sin trying to get into the camp (Ezk. 3  33).These are just a few men that preached in public a message in an ear that no one wanted to hear and that is why these men were persecuted, jailed and killed for it. When God sent someone like these individuals out of the bull pen you best take heed and understand that this is

[TruthTalk] TRUTH TALK Most Dangerous man in Canada

Note: forwarded message attached.
		Discover Yahoo! 
Stay in touch with email, IM, photo sharing & more. Check it out!---BeginMessage---






  
  
Whatcott ordered to stop anti-gay flyers 
  
Last Updated 
  May 13 2005 09:02 AM CDTCBC 
  News
  
REGINA  A Saskatchewan human rights tribunal has 
  ruled a former Regina man incited hatred against gays and lesbians and has 
  ordered him to pay more than $17,000. 
  
  


   

  
Bill WhatcottCBC file 
photoIn 2002, four people filed complaints against Bill Whatcott and a 
  group called the Christian Truth Activists. 
  They objected to pamphlets distributed in Regina and Saskatoon that 
  referred to homosexual men as "sodomites" and called same-sex 
  relationships "filthy". 
  One of the flyers said: "Sodomites are 430 times more likely to 
  acquire AIDS and three times more likely to sexually abuse children!" 
  Brendan Wallace, one of the 
  complainants, testified in 2002 he was angry and fearful as a result of 
  receiving the material at his home. 
  
  


  
READ THE DECISION

  Saskatchewan 
Human Rights Commission Tribunal: 
Wallace et al vs. 
Whatcott(Note: CBC does not 
endorse and is not responsible for the content of external sites. 
Link will open in new window) 
"Initially he thought it 
  was a personal attack on his partner and himself," the tribunal decision 
  said. "He related some of his life experiences as a gay man and wondered 
  how others would react, including members of his own family." 
  Whatcott has been ordered to pay $17,500 to Wallace and the three 
  other complainants for hurt feelings and loss of dignity and self-respect. 

  And the tribunal has ruled that Whatcott and his group can no 
  longer distribute material that promotes hatred against people because of 
  their sexual orientation. 
  On Thursday, Wallace said he was pleased the tribunal agreed 
  spreading this kind of material is wrong, but he doubts Whatcott's group 
  will stop. 
  "Only two weeks ago, we received some similar hate mail distributed 
  to our house from the same man and the same group," he said. 
  Whatcott could not be reached for comment. 
  
  

---End Message---

Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] Street Preaching





[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

  
  
  
  I don't recall discussing "methods." Just a comparison of
messages, perhaps. And I do not consider my way better than someone's
elses.But a rebuke without love is nothing more than hate speech.
I have seen the love in some of Ruben's writings. I just hope that
his street ministry has that passion as its base. Drive by preaching
is a waste of time. Its when you stay and struggle with those who are
being saved via your ministry that the tide is turned. We have an
equal responsibility to disciple those who are being saved. I don't
hear much about that around here. 
  
  Jd
  
  
===
  
  

Your comment may be true in some cases, but there are examples in the
Bible that do not line up with what you suggest. John, the Baptist
rebuked with out love and Jesus called John the greatest man that ever
lived. Like Ruben, he was a fore runner. He delivered the word and
left the follow up to others. An evangelist often preceeds a pastor.

 When Paul came to Antioch, he preached for less than four months and
was then run out of town. He came back two years later to find a
church that had grown to the point that Paul was able to appoint elders
from among the local boys to oversee this church that had never had a
pastor. You may be right that the wimpy churches of today could not
function for two years with out someone to pat them on the head and
pick up their toys, but real Christians have done it. All they needed
was the truth and the Holy Spirit.

Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] Street Preaching




There was a new covenant after that. 

God is love. Now in light of His being love, tell 
me what His wrath and His hate is like? Hint: it's not the same as human hate 
and anger and it's definitely not the same as Satan's hate and 
anger.

Love,

Caroline

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Ruben 
  Israel 
  To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
  
  Sent: Sunday, May 15, 2005 10:13 PM
  Subject: Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] Street 
  Preaching
  
  JD merely believes God is love and that He 
  loves sinners while you believe He is angry with sinners 24/7
  
  
  Can you please read me Psalm 7:11 and 
  tell me what that verse is saying?

Re: [TruthTalk] Toronto Blessing Alpha




John Wesley, when it came to deciding God's will on 
controversial issues, used 4 things to guide him. Scripture. Tradition. Reason. 
Experience. This later became known as the Wesleyan Quadrilateral.

In what way has Tradition, Reason and Experience 
influenced the people at TT? The RC believer come under similar 
influences.

Love,

Caroline

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  ShieldsFamily 
  To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
  
  Sent: Sunday, May 15, 2005 8:33 PM
  Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Toronto Blessing 
   Alpha
  
  
  I believe that is 
  because there are now laws that prohibit the RCC hierarchy from burning people 
  at the stake for reading scripture. So they play along. At least 
  if they lead the Bible studies they can brainwash their flock into making 
  scripture inferior to the Traditions of the Church. 
  Izzy
  
  
  
  
  
  
  There does seem to be a 
  renaissance of Catholics reading and studying the bible. Some are even moving 
  beyond prescribed prayer. Not many but it's a start. Perhaps they will reform 
  the church.
  
  
  
  Love,
  
  
  
  Caroline

Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] baptism

This may be beyond your understanding but people can be fired for racist or 
sexist remarks at the office. People watch their mouths. Some bosses find 
ways to be abusive without being racist or sexist but they have a high 
turnover in staff. And I'm sure the Lord judges them whether they are 
believers or not.

All the schools are proactive in stopping bullying because they know kids 
lives can be ruined to the point where grade schoolers contemplate suicide. 
Your family solved the problem by homeschooling. But bullying is a real 
problem and one that is not tolerated.

Love,
Caroline
- Original Message - 
From: ShieldsFamily [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: Sunday, May 15, 2005 8:37 PM
Subject: RE: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] baptism


Boy, Canada would have a field day in any gradeschool classroom.  Or any
family with multiple children.  Do they have tapes of the conversations at
the office during lunch hour? Izzy
-Original Message-
And you can't ...speak hatefully to
your fellow human being.
--
Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may 
know how you ought to answer every man.  (Colossians 4:6) 
http://www.InnGlory.org

If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed.  If you have a 
friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to 
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--
Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you 
ought to answer every man.  (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org
If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed.  If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.

Re: [TruthTalk] TRUTH TALK Most Dangerous man in Canada





And I thought the USA was a Godless country.



Kevin Deegan wrote:

  
  
Note: forwarded message attached.
   
  Discover Yahoo!
Stay in touch with email, IM, photo sharing  more. Check
it out!
  
  
  

  

Subject:

CBC News on Bill Whatcott
  
  

From: 
Bill Whatcott [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  
  

Date: 
Sun, 15 May 2005 23:32:46 -0600
  
  

To: 
Bill Whatcott [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  

  
  

  

To: 
Bill Whatcott [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  

  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  

  
Whatcott ordered to stop anti-gay
flyers 
  
  
Last Updated May 13 2005 09:02 AM CDT
CBC
News
  
  
REGINA  A Saskatchewan human rights
tribunal has ruled a former Regina man incited hatred against gays and
lesbians and has ordered him to pay more than $17,000. 

  

   


  
  Bill Whatcott
  CBC file photo
  

  

In 2002, four people
filed complaints against Bill Whatcott and a group called the Christian
Truth Activists.  They objected to pamphlets distributed in
Regina and Saskatoon that referred to homosexual men as "sodomites" and
called same-sex relationships "filthy". One of the flyers said:
"Sodomites are 430 times more likely to acquire AIDS and three times
more likely to sexually abuse children!" Brendan
Wallace, one of the complainants, testified in 2002 he was angry and
fearful as a result of receiving the material at his home.

  

  
  READ THE DECISION
  


  Saskatchewan
Human Rights Commission Tribunal: Wallace et al vs. Whatcott
  
  (Note: CBC does not endorse and is not responsible for
the content of external sites. Link will open in new window)
  

  

"Initially he thought it was a personal attack on his partner and
himself," the tribunal decision said. "He related some of his life
experiences as a gay man and wondered how others would react, including
members of his own family." Whatcott has been ordered to pay $17,500 to
Wallace and the three other complainants for hurt feelings and loss of
dignity and self-respect. And the tribunal has ruled that Whatcott and
his group can no longer distribute material that promotes hatred
against people because of their sexual orientation. On Thursday,
Wallace said he was pleased the tribunal agreed spreading this kind of
material is wrong, but he doubts Whatcott's group will stop. "Only two
weeks ago, we received some similar hate mail distributed to our house
from the same man and the same group," he said. Whatcott could not be
reached for comment.

Re: [TruthTalk] Street Preaching




The OT prophets were filled with the Spirit for a 
purpose. Anyone who think they have the same mission and anointing is most 
likely wrong. Jesus gave very specific instructions to how his apostles were to 
preach to the people. They left a town if the town will not accept the message. 
No need to continue to witness. 

Jesus also said he'd return before they've gone 
through all the towns of Israel. So, did we miss it? Did he mean something else? 
Or did thedisciples miss a few towns here and there? Israel ain't that big 
and they have many teams.

Love,

Caroline

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  ShieldsFamily 
  To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
  
  Sent: Sunday, May 15, 2005 8:52 PM
  Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Street 
  Preaching
  
  
  By your criteria were 
  the OT prophets full of the fruit of the Spirit? Or were they not affable 
  enough? Izzy
  
  
  
  
  
  From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Caroline WongSent: Sunday, May 15, 2005 1:55 
  AMTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSubject: Re: [TruthTalk] Street 
  Preaching
  
  
  It is possible as I posted the 
  story of the atheist meeting the street preacher on Yonge St. and 
  finding him affable and easy to talk to. That was the street preacher walking 
  up and down while dressed as Jesus and carrying a cross. 
  
  
  
  
  You know people by their fruit and 
  this is the fruit of the spirit: love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, 
  goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and 
  self-control
  
  
  
  Love,
  
  
  
  Caroline
  

- Original Message - 


From: ShieldsFamily 


To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 


Sent: 
Saturday, May 14, 2005 7:33 PM

Subject: RE: 
[TruthTalk] Street Preaching


Would you agree 
that it is at least possible that the Holy Spirit can/does fill and guide 
street preachers also? Izzy





From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Caroline WongSent: Saturday, May 14, 2005 7:18 
AMTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSubject: Re: [TruthTalk] Street 
Preaching


The OT prophets were filled with 
the Holy Spirit and commissioned by God. Each word that he spoke was an 
inspiration of the Spirit. I'll leave ya'll from various camps to decide for 
yourselves what the Street Preachers are filled with and who commissioned 
them.



- Original Message - 


  
  From: Judy 
  Taylor 
  
  To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
  
  
  Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
  
  
  Sent: 
  Saturday, May 14, 2005 1:47 AM
  
  Subject: Re: 
  [TruthTalk] Street Preaching
  
  
  
  I think the same could be said for 
  every one of the OT Prophets, that is, the ones through whom we received 
  the
  
  scriptures. They were all 
  street preachers and the reaction of Israel before the dispersion 
  was the equivalent of
  
  this Baptist fellow. Psych 
  case huh? jt
  
  
  
  On Fri, 13 May 2005 22:59:37 -0500 "Caroline Wong" 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  writes:
  

This was posted on the 
discussion board of baptistboard.com by dh1948. 




While visiting in Mobile recently, my wife and I were 
downtown walking past the Bienville Square. Walking around in 
the square was a street preacher. He was screaming...and I mean 
screaming...to the top of his lungs as he sauntered around preaching. 
His message was one of hell fire and brimstone...turn or burn. He 
sounded so angry.I had no problem with his message, but his 
method caused me to ask my wife, "Do you think this is really glorifying 
to God?" I question the method of standing on a street corner or in a 
public square and screaming out a gospel sermon. I thought, "If 
I was a lost person, how would I react to this man and his message?" 
After all, I am the one he would be targeting, so just how would I 
react? I have to say...with disgust. I would consider him to be a psych 
case...a cultist of a sort. Before the castigation starts, I am 
not questioning the man's motive nor his message...just his method. 
What do you think?

Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] Street Preaching





Caroline Wong wrote:

  
  
  
  There was a new covenant after that.
  
  
  God is love. Now in light of His
being love, tell me what His wrath and His hate is like? Hint: it's not
the same as human hate and anger and it's definitely not the same as
Satan's hate and anger.
  
  Love,
  
  Caroline


God's wrath sends thousands of people to eternal agony every hour. It
is what they deserve for ignoring the sacrifice He made in their
behalf. If you don't like that, too bad, but that is the way that it
is. A wimpy one sided God is only love gospel just adds to that number.
Terry

Re: [TruthTalk] Toronto Blessing Alpha





Caroline Wong wrote:

  
  

  
  John Wesley, when it came to
deciding God's will on controversial issues, used 4 things to guide
him. Scripture. Tradition. Reason. Experience. This later became known
as the Wesleyan Quadrilateral.
  
  In what way has Tradition, Reason
and Experience influenced the people at TT? The RC believer come under
similar influences.
  
  Love,
  
  Caroline

==
What happens when reason and experience do not agree with scripture?

Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] Street Preaching

2005-05-16 Thread Ruben Israel





God is love. Now in light of His 
being love, tell me what His wrath and His hate is like? Hint: it's not the same 
as human hate and anger and it's definitely not the same as Satan's hate and 
anger.

So He was not love 
then?
I guess that is your way of saying, 
yes? Why not just take read for what it says? 
God is angry (as the verse clearly 
shows) everyday of every week of every year or as you asked 24/7? We do have consistency here with Old and 
New, how can someone read the book of Revelation and conclude God destroys 
nations, people the earth? Let me 
try this again, Can you 
please read me Psalm 7:11 and tell me what that verse is saying?

Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] Street Preaching

2005-05-16 Thread Ruben Israel





The biblical 
idea that God is our Father is a New Covenant consideration. 
Whatever old testament scripture one can quote concerning God, it must now 
be seen as a statement concerning the Father. It is the wrath of a father 
thatis encountered in the new covenant age. In Christ, this 
father shed His blood for us -- while we were still 
sinners (and sinning). He does not leave that emotion behind 
when His emotion is one of anger or disappointment 
 no more than a father stops loving his children when they 
miss up their lives. In fact, some fathers love 
their children more in that circumstance. Grace and mercy are all the more 
present. 


You read ALL this from that one verse, 
why not just take read for what it says? 

I guess that is your way of saying, yes 
God is angry (as the verse clearly shows) everyday of every week of every year 
or as the question was asked? Is 
this not 24/7 as the question? If all we do is push God loves you 
than we misrepresent God, We make 
God look schizophrenic. I love now 
but I will destroy you in fire for eternity then? It has been my experience that this 
thinking makes people become pagans, atheists or even wink at other gods.

RE: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] Street Preaching









JD, why is it that whenever someone
resists a message in the OT they simply pass it off by saying That was
just for the Jews? Is Jewish nature different from Gentile nature?
Is God a respecter of persons? The truth is unrepentant, unsaved sinners
are the same, nomatter their race or creed. They are not inside Gods
love barrierwhich is crossed only by repentance in Christs
redemptionbut on the outside. That is why prophets must warn them of
where they are. Those with tender hearts respond by heeding the message,
and are saved. Izzy



Prov 18:10 10The
name of the LORD is a strong tower: the righteous runneth into it, and is safe.











From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Sunday, May 15, 2005 6:03 PM
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Subject: Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk]
Street Preaching





























I personally have reason to respect Ruben
Israel. My comments are not personal. But
--- different strokesfor different
folks is my response
to Ruben's
defense. What is in evidence, I suppose, is thatpreaching
(including street preaching)is an acceptable vehicle for
spreading the message of hope. Except for the Noah example, what we
have is a series of examplesof how the message was presented to the
children of God --- the Jews.We
are repeatedly reminded that among these people of God, few would
respond. Perhaps Heb
6:4-6 explains why.No doubt, preaching the message of God's love apart
from His disappointment (His wrath) gives one something less than the
full picture. I incorporate the message of love in my ministry
becau se of the information I find in the letters of the apostles and
prophets. The commands that bear repeating in I John are
love God and love the brethren. We are
reminded that  no one has seen God at any time -- but if we love
one another, God abides in us I J 4:12. In fact,
if God loved us, we should love others ( I J 4:11). I
include the radical notion of love in my ministry because I see it in the words
of Paul -- I become all things to all men so that
by all means I might save some. The fulfillment of the Law
gave us liberty -- but Paul reminds us that we are constrained
by -- aah love !!
 The gospel of John presents the very reason for the
Incarnation -- Because God loved the
world  The Fatherhood of God is an exclusive New
Testament consideration. At the centreof
Fatherhood is this thing we seek to exclude -
love. We dare not forget the very essence
of God -- expressed in the statement God is love.
The letters of the apostles are full of considerate dialogue and loving
guidance.Paul reminds us that knowledge has its limitations, but if
we love, we are known by God.  Where harsh straight talk may
bethe way to the Jewish heart, it certainly was not the norm in
other venues.  I include love in my ministry because
people need to know about it. Salute.

















JD






















-Original Message-
From: Ruben Israel [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: Sun, 15 May 2005 14:46:34 -0700
Subject: Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] Street Preaching



To
those that wish to comment on street preaching, take note:


Noah was called a preacher of righteousness during his time slot he
preached righteousness to a perverted people and did anyone get saved? Would it
have been more prudent for him to use his three sons and maybe start a band,
singing to sinners in that wicked generation and using this friendship
evangelism rather than preaching?


Isaiah was told to Lift aloud, spare not, lift up thy voice like a
trumpet, and shew my people
their transgressions and the house of Jacob their sins (Is.58:1). Do we
find Isaiah preaching a message of God wants you just the way you are? Find out
how many messages he preached using the word Woe vs. God loves you.


Jeremiah was told to go and cry out against cities, people, individuals and a
temple, his message was about as in your face as one can get. Should he have
possibly just tried to get to know everyone, maybe coffee and pie, perhaps this
result would have been fruitful and the message would have been accepted? In
retrospect was it all Jeremiah's
fault?


Ezekiel, now here is someone I enjoy reading, this man uses more visual aids
with his preaching (see Ezekiel for details) and again where do we find this
message of God loves you even once in forty eight chapters? He was the watchman
warning sinners of their sin. Ringing the bell, sounding the alarm, echoing
caution, pointing out the sin trying to get into the camp (Ezk. 3  33).


These are just a few men that preached in public a message in an ear that no
one wanted to hear and that is why these men were persecuted, jailed and killed
for it. When God sent someone like these individuals out of the bull pen you
best take heed and understand that this is your wake up call. Is that only Old
Testament?


Well let's see, enter John the Baptist and his message

RE: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] baptism

Caroline, thank you for denigrating my capabilities of understanding.  Is it
possible that you might not understand something yourself? Have I promoted
SP's making racist or sexist remarks or bullying?  You are off the
subject and don't even know it.  MY point is that hate speech is not what
SP's do by warning sinners that what they are doing is wrong.  Hate speech
is what human beings do every day by slandering and gossiping, and no law in
Canada will stop that.  The anti-hate laws are created by sinful men to
censor free speech which is not politically correct.  It is of satan. Izzy

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Caroline Wong
Sent: Monday, May 16, 2005 8:04 AM
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Subject: Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] baptism

This may be beyond your understanding but people can be fired for racist or 
sexist remarks at the office. People watch their mouths. Some bosses find 
ways to be abusive without being racist or sexist but they have a high 
turnover in staff. And I'm sure the Lord judges them whether they are 
believers or not.

All the schools are proactive in stopping bullying because they know kids 
lives can be ruined to the point where grade schoolers contemplate suicide. 
Your family solved the problem by homeschooling. But bullying is a real 
problem and one that is not tolerated.

Love,

Caroline
- Original Message - 
From: ShieldsFamily [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: Sunday, May 15, 2005 8:37 PM
Subject: RE: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] baptism


 Boy, Canada would have a field day in any gradeschool classroom.  Or any
 family with multiple children.  Do they have tapes of the conversations at
 the office during lunch hour? Izzy

 -Original Message-
 And you can't ...speak hatefully to
 your fellow human being.


 --
 Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may 
 know how you ought to answer every man.  (Colossians 4:6) 
 http://www.InnGlory.org

 If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to 
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--
Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know
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http://www.InnGlory.org

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Re: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] Re: [TruthTalk] Dispersions





Hos 11:9 I am God, and not man;
the Holy One in the midst of thee

DAVEH: I agree, Kevin. Jesus was not a man before he was born.  But,
I believe he was literally the Son of Man. When did that
happen?.after his birth. Not only was he the Son of Man, but he
himself became a man, and was subsequently resurrected after his death
when his spirit body was united with a physical body of flesh and bones
to become an exalted man. With what part of this do you disagree,
Kevin?

Kevin Deegan wrote:

  If I incorrectly told youitems about my wife
  Hair color, likes dislikes, how we met, where we married, where
she was born (it was not Jerusalem : ) 
  She would not be pleased. Her desire is that I know her. 
  
  God wants you to know him, He is a jealous God
  He wants your love and affection.
  If your description of Him is off, you are worshipping a god of
your own making
  
  Hos 11:9 I am God, and not man;
the Holy One in the midst of thee
  


-- 
~~~
Dave Hansen
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.langlitz.com
~~~
If you wish to receive
things I find interesting,
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Re: [TruthTalk] baptism





Could you answer a few questionsI have?

DAVEH: That becomes a problem, Kevin. I hardly have time to read all
the TT posts, let alone answer the pertinent ones. Many times I don't
see a need to respond to your posts, as they don't seem to ask
questions. Other times, the questions you ask seem more rhetorical.
But I do have quite a few of your posts highlighted and hope to get to
them as I can. However, I am getting more of them than I can possibly
respond to.

Kevin Deegan wrote:

  IF one of the parties does not want to have a meaningful
exchange
  The real question is which of the parties that might be.
  Could you answer a few questionsI have?
  
  
  Terry Clifton [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  Dave
Hansen wrote:
DAVEH:
Nothing will make for easier discussions, IF one of the parties does
not want to have a meaningful exchange, Kevin. I view TT as being a
place where two or more people of contrasting opinions can explore why
other's believe differently. I perceive that some TTers (such as
yourself) are here not to have a meaningful discussion unless it
results in the other person adopting your beliefs. Basically, you want
to use TT as a forum to convert people to Christianity as you
understand it...is that correct? Assuming so, you probably don't feel
a need to find areas of common belief, but rather cut right to the
chase and try to overwhelm your opponent with their error of
thought/belief as you perceive it. Have I analyzed it correctly, Kevin?
  
 I harbor no illusions about changing your anti attitudes, Kevin.
But I am curious as to why you are as you a re (and why you believe as
you do), if that makes any sense. It's just one of my hang-ups I
suppose. 

===
That's not a hang up, Dave. That is the Lord trying to get you to see
the truth. You are seeking because what you have does not satisfy.
My fee is only fifty bucks. We live in an economocally challenged area
where things are less expensive.
  
   
  

-- 
~~~
Dave Hansen
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
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~~~
If you wish to receive
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RE: [TruthTalk] Street Preaching









Dont you think the SPs are
going from town to town? Is the Holy Spirit different today than it was
then? Why did Jesus say that greater works would we do than He did if the
Holy Spirit is less powerful now? So you have found another mistake in the uninspired
Bible? Jesus told his disciples He would come in His Kingdom before they
preached to all the cities in Israelwhich
He did. Maybe you missed it? Izzy











From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Caroline Wong
Sent: Monday, May 16, 2005 8:08 AM
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Street
Preaching







The OT prophets were filled with the Spirit for a purpose.
Anyone who think they have the same mission and anointing is most likely wrong.
Jesus gave very specific instructions to how his apostles were to preach to the
people. They left a town if the town will not accept the message. No need to
continue to witness. 











Jesus also said he'd return before they've gone through all
the towns of Israel.
So, did we miss it? Did he mean something else? Or did thedisciples miss
a few towns here and there? Israel
ain't that big and they have many teams.











Love,











Caroline







- Original Message - 





From: ShieldsFamily






To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org






Sent: Sunday, May 15,
2005 8:52 PM





Subject: RE: [TruthTalk]
Street Preaching









By your criteria were the OT prophets full
of the fruit of the Spirit? Or were they not affable enough? Izzy











From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Caroline Wong
Sent: Sunday, May 15, 2005 1:55 AM
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Street
Preaching







It is possible as I posted the story of the atheist meeting
the street preacher on Yonge St.
and finding him affable and easy to talk to. That was the street preacher
walking up and down while dressed as Jesus and carrying a cross. 











You know people by their fruit and this is the fruit of the
spirit: love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness,
gentleness and self-control











Love,











Caroline







- Original Message - 





From: ShieldsFamily






To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org






Sent: Saturday, May 14,
2005 7:33 PM





Subject: RE: [TruthTalk]
Street Preaching









Would you agree that it is at least
possible that the Holy Spirit can/does fill and guide street preachers also?
Izzy











From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Caroline Wong
Sent: Saturday, May 14, 2005 7:18
AM
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Street
Preaching







The OT prophets were filled with the Holy Spirit and
commissioned by God. Each word that he spoke was an inspiration of the Spirit.
I'll leave ya'll from various camps to decide for yourselves what the Street
Preachers are filled with and who commissioned them.











- Original Message - 







From: Judy Taylor






To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org






Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org






Sent: Saturday, May 14,
2005 1:47 AM





Subject: Re: [TruthTalk]
Street Preaching











I think the same could be said for every
one of the OT Prophets, that is, the ones through whom we received the





scriptures. They were all street
preachers and the reaction of Israel
before the dispersion was the equivalent of





this Baptist fellow. Psych case
huh? jt











On Fri, 13 May 2005 22:59:37 -0500 Caroline Wong [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:







This was posted on the discussion board of baptistboard.com
by dh1948. 











While visiting in Mobile
recently, my wife and I were downtown walking past the Bienville Square. Walking around in the
square was a street preacher. He was screaming...and I mean screaming...to the
top of his lungs as he sauntered around preaching. His message was one of hell
fire and brimstone...turn or burn. He sounded so angry.

I had no problem with his message, but his method caused me to ask my wife,
Do you think this is really glorifying to God? I question the
method of standing on a street corner or in a public square and screaming out a
gospel sermon. 

I thought, If I was a lost person, how would I react to this man and his
message? After all, I am the one he would be targeting, so just how would
I react? I have to say...with disgust. I would consider him to be a psych
case...a cultist of a sort. 

Before the castigation starts, I am not questioning the man's motive nor his
message...just his method. 

What do you think?

Re: [TruthTalk] baptism





DAVEH: ??? So you are suggesting that the things I
mentioned---apostles, prophets, temples, etc.---are not necessary
today, Kevin? If so, I respectfully disagree. 

Kevin Deegan wrote:

  DH
says The Lord's people of Bible times needed prophets.
  
  WE have "THE Prophet"
Luke 1 And thou, child, shalt be called THE PROPHET of the Highest
  DH says The Lord's people of Bible
times needed the Priesthood
  
  RV 1 And hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father;
to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.
  
  JESUS IS HIGH
PRIEST Heb 5:6 Thou art a
priest for ever afterthe
order of Melchisedec v10 Called of God an high priest after the order
of Melchisedec.
  
  UNENDING PRIEST HB 7
Without father, without mother, without descent, having neither
beginning of days, nor end of life; but made like unto the Son of God;
abideth a priest continually.
  HB 7 But this man, because he continueth ever, hath an unchangeable
priesthood.
  HB 7 Thou art a priest for ever after the order
of Melchisedec.
  HB 7 For the priesthood being changed
  
  APOSTLE  HIGH PRIEST
HB 3:1 Wherefore, holy brethren, partakers of the heavenly calling,
consider the Apostle and High Priest of our profession, Christ Jesus
  DH
says The Lord's people of Bible times needed Temples
  Acts 7:48 Howbeit the most High
dwelleth not in temples made with hands
  1 Co 6:19 What? know ye not that your body is the temple of
the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not
your own?
  
  1 PT 2:5 Ye also, as
lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to
offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ.
  
  
  Dave Hansen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  DAVEH:
Is it better to realize something is missing, and search for it? Or is
it better to feel comfortable assuming nothing is missing, and then
stubbornly deny the need for more knowledge of the gospel?

 The Lord's people of Bible times needed prophets.

 The Lord's people of Bible times needed revelation

 The Lord's people of Bible times needed further Scripture

 The Lord's people of Bible times needed the Priesthood

 The Lord's people of Bible times needed Temples

 Could it be a Pride in their own Righteousness that
would cause some today to label LDS (Liars, Deceivers,
SEDUCERS) and then suggest we do not need the things the
Lord's people needed in Bible times???

Kevin Deeg an wrote:

  
  
  The WHOLE Mormon argument is you are missing something.
  You need further revelation your Bible is incomplete, in
error and lacking in the truth
  You have the Bible BUT do you have the Book of Mormon? (Like
the recent TV add)
  You need Joe Smith
  You need the priesthood
  You need the Temple
  etc.
  So LDS beguile unstable souls with enticing words Col 2:4
  HERE FOLLOWS THE ONLY SECTION WHICH MAY BY ANY STRETCH (or
BEND) OF THE IMAGINATION BE CONSTRUED AS AN ASPERSION:
  In actuallity it is LDS who are generally full of
Pride in their own Righteousness
  They have so much you don't have after all.
  
  This is why some label LDS (Liars, Deceivers, SEDUCERS)

-- 
~~~
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Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] Street Preaching

All they needed was the truth and the Holy Spirit.
As Paul was preparingothers for hisdeparture:
Acts 20 Therefore watch, and remember, that by the space of three years I ceased not to warn every one night and day with tears. And now, brethren, I commend you to God, and to the word of his grace, which is able to build you up, and to give you an inheritance among all them which are sanctified.Terry Clifton [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

===Your comment may be true in some cases, but there are examples in the Bible that do not line up with what you suggest. John, the Baptist rebuked with out love and Jesus called John the greatest man that ever lived. Like Ruben, he was a fore runner. He delivered the word and left the follow up to others. An evangelist often preceeds a pastor. When Paul came to Antioch, he preached for less than four months and was then run out of town. He came back two years later to find a church that had grown to the point that Paul was able to appoint elders from among the local boys to oversee this church that had never had a pastor. You may be right that the wimpy churches of today could not function for two years with out someone to pat them on the head and pick up their toys, but real Christians have done
it. All they needed was the truth and the Holy Spirit.
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Re: [TruthTalk] Street Preaching




Blaine wrote:
 These street preachers 
mostly just annoy people, 
 make a 
spectacle of themselves. 

You seem toomit from mention the 
many converts they have made among the Mormons.

Blaine wrote:
 There must be a better way 
for them to communicate their 
 messages, 
which in some instances might actually do some 
 lost souls 
some good if they could be approached less 
 
obtrusively, and with a show of dignity--a virtue that seems 

 lost on them.

There was a man by the name of James White who 
took this approach for 18 years before the Street Preachers came to the Mormon 
conferences. He too was upset with the arrival of the Street 
Preachers. Maybe someone should ask God why he decided to change his 
approach toward the Mormons.

Peace be with you.David Miller.

Re: [TruthTalk] TRUTH TALK Most Dangerous man in Canada

$17,000 fine for handing out literature?
The PC crowd is very INTOLERANT even of words!
But to hear them talk that is a different story, they love to tell you how open they are!Terry Clifton [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
And I thought the USA was a Godless country.Kevin Deegan wrote: 

Note: forwarded message attached.


Discover Yahoo!Stay in touch with email, IM, photo sharing  more. Check it out! 






Subject: CBC News on Bill Whatcott


From: Bill Whatcott [EMAIL PROTECTED]


Date: Sun, 15 May 2005 23:32:46 -0600


To: Bill Whatcott [EMAIL PROTECTED]




To: Bill Whatcott [EMAIL PROTECTED]








Whatcott ordered to stop anti-gay flyers 

Last Updated May 13 2005 09:02 AM CDTCBC News

REGINA  A Saskatchewan human rights tribunal has ruled a former Regina man incited hatred against gays and lesbians and has ordered him to pay more than $17,000. 



 


Bill WhatcottCBC file photoIn 2002, four people filed complaints against Bill Whatcott and a group called the Christian Truth Activists. They objected to pamphlets distributed in Regina and Saskatoon that referred to homosexual men as "sodomites" and called same-sex relationships "filthy". One of the flyers said: "Sodomites are 430 times more likely to acquire AIDS and three times more likely to sexually abuse children!" Brendan Wallace, one of the complainants, testified in 2002 he was angry and fearful as a result of receiving the material at his home. 




READ THE DECISION

Saskatchewan Human Rights Commission Tribunal: Wallace et al vs. Whatcott(Note: CBC does not endorse and is not responsible for the content of external sites. Link will open in new window) "Initially he thought it was a personal attack on his partner and himself," the tribunal decision said. "He related some of his life experiences as a gay man and wondered how others would react, including members of his own family." Whatcott has been ordered to pay $17,500 to Wallace and the three other complainants for hurt feelings and loss of dignity and self-respect. And the tribunal has ruled that Whatcott and his group can no longer distribute material that promotes hatred against people because of their sexual orientation. On Thursday, Wallace said he was
 pleased the tribunal agreed spreading this kind of material is wrong, but he doubts Whatcott's group will stop. "Only two weeks ago, we received some similar hate mail distributed to our house from the same man and the same group," he said. Whatcott could not be reached for comment. 

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Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] Street Preaching

CW sas God is love. Now in light of His being love, tell me what His wrath and His hate is like? Hint:


His Love is the MOST INTENSE Love you will ever find. So is His WRATH!

HINT answer is found in the BIBLE:
Joel 2:11 And the LORD shall utter his voice before his army: for his camp is very great: for he is strong that executeth his word: for the day of the LORD is great and very terrible; and who can abide it?




Nahum 1:6 Who can stand before his indignation? and who can abide in the fierceness of his anger? his fury is poured out like fire, and the rocks are thrown down by him.
Sounds like more than a bad hair day to me!


Terry Clifton [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Caroline Wong wrote: 




There was a new covenant after that. 

God is love. Now in light of His being love, tell me what His wrath and His hate is like? Hint: it's not the same as human hate and anger and it's definitely not the same as Satan's hate and anger.

Love,

CarolineGod's wrath sends thousands of people to eternal agony every hour. It is what they deserve for ignoring the sacrifice He made in their behalf. If you don't like that, too bad, but that is the way that it is. A wimpy one sided God is only love gospel just adds to that number.Terry
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RE: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] Street Preaching

why is it that whenever someone resists a message in the OT they simply pass it off by saying That was just for the Jews? 
Haven't you been paying attention? Different CULTURE!
ShieldsFamily [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:









JD, why is it that whenever someone resists a message in the OT they simply pass it off by saying That was just for the Jews? Is Jewish nature different from Gentile nature? Is God a respecter of persons? The truth is unrepentant, unsaved sinners are the same, nomatter their race or creed. They are not inside Gods love barrierwhich is crossed only by repentance in Christs redemptionbut on the outside. That is why prophets must warn them of where they are. Those with tender hearts respond by heeding the message, and are saved. Izzy

Prov 18:10 10The name of the LORD is a strong tower: the righteous runneth into it, and is safe.





From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]Sent: Sunday, May 15, 2005 6:03 PMTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSubject: Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] Street Preaching










I personally have reason to respect Ruben Israel. My comments are not personal. But --- "different strokesfor different folks" is my response to Ruben's defense. What is in evidence, I suppose, is thatpreaching (including "street preaching")is an acceptable vehicle for spreading the message of hope. Except for the Noah example, what we have is a series of examplesof how the message was presented to the children of God --- the Jews.We are repeatedly reminded that among these people of God, few would respond. Perhaps Heb 6:4-6 explains why.No doubt, preaching the
 message of God's love apart from His disappointment (His wrath) gives one something less than the full picture. I incorporate the message of love in my ministry becau se of the information I find in the letters of the apostles and prophets. The commands that bear repeating in I John are "love God" and "love the brethren." We are reminded that " no one has seen God at any time -- but if we love one another, God abides in us" I J 4:12. In fact, "if God loved us, we should love others" ( I J 4:11). I include the radical notion of love in my ministry because I see it in the words of Paul -- "I become all things to all men so that by all means I might save some." The fulfillment of the Law gave us liberty -- but Paul reminds us that we are constrained by -- aah love !! " The gospel of John presents the very reason for the Incarnation -- "Because God loved the world " The Fatherhood of God is an exclusive New Testament consideration. At the centreof Fatherhood is this thing we seek to exclude - love. We dare not forget the very essence of God -- expressed in the statement "God is love." The letters of the apostles are full of considerate dialogue and loving guidance.Paul reminds us that knowledge has its limitations, but if we love, we are known by God.  Where harsh straight talk may bethe way to the Jewish heart, it certainly was not the norm in other venues.  I include love in my ministry
 because people need to know about it. Salute.





JD






-Original Message-From: Ruben Israel [EMAIL PROTECTED]To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSent: Sun, 15 May 2005 14:46:34 -0700Subject: Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] Street Preaching

To those that wish to comment on "street preaching," take note:Noah was called a "preacher of righteousness" during his time slot he preached righteousness to a perverted people and did anyone get saved? Would it have been more prudent for him to use his three sons and maybe start a band, singing to sinners in that wicked generation and using this friendship evangelism rather than preaching?Isaiah was told to "Lift aloud, spare not, lift up thy voice like a trumpet, and shew my people their transgressions and the house of Jacob their sins" (Is.58:1). Do we find Isaiah preaching a message of God wants you just the way you are? Find out how many messages he preached using the word "Woe" vs. "God loves you".Jeremiah was told to go and cry out against cities, people, individuals and a temple, his message was about as in your face as one can get. Should he have possibly just tried to get to know everyone, maybe coffee and pie, perhaps this result would have been fruitful and the message would have been accepted? In retrospect was it all Jeremiah's fault?Ezekiel, now here is someone I enjoy reading, this man uses more visual aids with his preaching (see Ezekiel for details) and again where do we find this message of God loves you even once in forty eight chapters? He was the watchman warning sinners of their sin. Ringing the bell, sounding the alarm, echoing caution, pointing out the sin trying to get into the camp (Ezk. 3  33).These are just a few men that
 preached in public a message in an ear that no one wanted to hear and that is why these men were persecuted, jailed and killed for it. When God sent someone like these

Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] Street Preaching

Ruben says Why not just take read for what it says?

When CW and the Word conflict JUST CHANGE it.Ruben Israel [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:





God is love. Now in light of His being love, tell me what His wrath and His hate is like? Hint: it's not the same as human hate and anger and it's definitely not the same as Satan's hate and anger.

So He was not love then?
I guess that is your way of saying, yes? Why not just take read for what it says? God is angry (as the verse clearly shows) everyday of every week of every year or as you asked 24/7? We do have consistency here with Old and New, how can someone read the book of Revelation and conclude God destroys nations, people the earth? Let me try this again, Can you please read me Psalm 7:11 and tell me what that verse is saying? 

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!Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] Street Preaching

Caroline Wong wrote:
 It's not the preaching outside that I object to.

Oh, good, I am glad to hear that.

Caroline Wong wrote:
 It's the yelling at people and insulting them that
 I object to. This is not dialogue or apologetics;
 it's bullying.  I can't imagine Jesus screaming whore
 and harlot at Samaritan women.

What street preacher did you witness using such methods?  I would like to 
know names, places, dates, and contact information like email addresses or 
websites, etc.  I've preached with scores of street preachers across this 
nation and I don't think I have ever witnessed such things.

Jesus offended many with his preaching and teaching.  The proof of this is 
in how they reacted toward him and ultimately by the fact of his 
crucifixion.  If you are walking as Jesus walked, people will be looking for 
ways to malign you, misrepresent you, hurt you, and kill you, and if they 
are not, either you have not started ministry yet, or something is wrong 
with your ministry.  None of us are above our Master.

Caroline Wong wrote:
 Something is very wrong here and as a Christian, I protest.
 I do not agree with Mormon beliefs but I have enormous
 respect for all those who endured the persecution with grace
 and dignity.

You have respect for the Mormon persecution?  Is this what you are saying?

Joseph Smith as Mayor of the largest city in Illinois and Military General 
of a State Militia ordered the destruction of printing presses that 
criticized his polygamy.  In response to this gross abuse of political power 
and sundry other things, he was arrested and a mob broke into the jail and 
killed him after he had killed some of the angry mob with a gun that had 
been smuggled in.  Are you going on record as saying that you are 
sympathetic to his suffering persecution in this event?

Caroline Wong wrote:
 As a Christian, I would like to apologize to all the
 Mormons here who were screamed at and insulted.

Before you jump on the bandwagon here, you need to go down to Salt Lake City 
and see what is going on for yourself.  I believe that your apology is based 
upon your being too eager to believe gossip.

Caroline Wong wrote:
 Not all Christians are like that and not all Street Preachers
 are like that.  I hope you'll give us another chance to explain
 our beliefs.

Sweet Caroline.  You are falling for the Mormon deception here.  Wake up. 
The Mormons are not ignorant of your beliefs.  They have judged your beliefs 
as false and hope for the opportunity for you to explain your beliefs only 
so they can show you how they have a belief system that goes beyond yours 
and has better answers.  The Scriptures teach us to reprove, rebuke and 
exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine.  You had better get about the 
business of doing that.  Those who love the truth will hear you, and those 
who hate the truth will deride you.

Peace be with you.
David Miller. 


--
Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know 
how you ought to answer every man.  (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org

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RE: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] baptism

It is not a two way road as amply illustrated by CW's false witness.
CW believes SP's use hate speech, SP's scream and she is willing to perpetuate her HATE all the while, under the ruse of being nice and polite. Just questioning whether it is the best practice to scream at the sinners, sort of like the concerned christian who asks "when did you stop beating your wife?"
Guilty without any evidence.
To then perpetuate the story is to bear tales.
ShieldsFamily [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Caroline, thank you for denigrating my capabilities of understanding. Is itpossible that you might not understand something yourself? Have I promotedSP's making "racist or sexist remarks" or "bullying"? You are off thesubject and don't even know it. MY point is that "hate speech" is not whatSP's do by warning sinners that what they are doing is wrong. Hate speechis what human beings do every day by slandering and gossiping, and no law inCanada will stop that. The anti-hate laws are created by sinful men tocensor free speech which is not politically correct. It is of satan. Izzy-Original Message-From: [EMAIL PROTECTED][mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Caroline WongSent: Monday, May 16, 2005 8:04 AMTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSubject: Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] baptismThis may be
beyond your understanding but people can be fired for racist or sexist remarks at the office. People watch their mouths. Some bosses find ways to be abusive without being racist or sexist but they have a high turnover in staff. And I'm sure the Lord judges them whether they are believers or not.All the schools are proactive in stopping bullying because they know kids lives can be ruined to the point where grade schoolers contemplate suicide. Your family solved the problem by homeschooling. But bullying is a real problem and one that is not tolerated.Love,Caroline- Original Message - From: "ShieldsFamily" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>To: Sent: Sunday, May 15, 2005 8:37 PMSubject: RE: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] baptism Boy, Canada would have a field day in any gradeschool classroom. Or any family with multiple children. Do they have tapes of the conversations
at the office during lunch hour? Izzy -Original Message- And you can't ...speak hatefully to your fellow human being. -- "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed. --"Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may knowhow you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6)http://www.InnGlory.orgIf you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to[EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If
you have afriend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to[EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.--"Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.orgIf you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
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Re: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] Re: [TruthTalk] Dispersions

What was he before he "became a man"?
Hos 11:9 I am God, and not man; the Holy One in the midst of theeDAVEH: I agree, Kevin. Jesus was not a man before he was born.  But, I believe he was literally the Son of Man. When did that happen?.after his birth. Not only was he the Son of Man, but he himself became a man, and was subsequently resurrected after his death when his spirit body was united with a physical body of flesh and bones to become an exalted man. With what part of this do you disagree, Kevin?Kevin Deegan wrote: 

If I incorrectly told youitems about my wife
Hair color, likes dislikes, how we met, where we married, where she was born (it was not Jerusalem : ) 
She would not be pleased. Her desire is that I know her. 

God wants you to know him, He is a jealous God
He wants your love and affection.
If your description of Him is off, you are worshipping a god of your own making

Hos 11:9 I am God, and not man; the Holy One in the midst of thee
-- 
~~~
Dave Hansen
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.langlitz.com
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Re: [TruthTalk] Street Preaching





DAVEH: Does JW now employ the same obnoxious tactics?

David Miller wrote:

  There was a man by the name of James
White who took this approach for 18 years before the Street Preachers
came to the Mormon conferences. He too was upset with the arrival of
the Street Preachers. Maybe someone should ask God why he decided to
change his approach toward the Mormons.
  
  Peace be with you.
David Miller.


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~~~
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RE: [TruthTalk] Street Preaching


CW says OT prophets were filled with the Spirit for a purpose. Anyone who think they have the same mission and anointing is most likely wrong. Jesus gave very specific instructions to how his apostles were to preach to the people. They left a town if the town will not accept the message. No need to continue to witness. 


There she goes again. First she puts words in our mouths, " Anyone who think they have the same mission and anointing is most likely wrong." Then she tells us we are not fulfilling the mission of the APOSTLES which she just gave us, "Jesus gave very specific instructions to how his apostles were to preach to the people. " Apostles? We never claimed to be Apostles! 
Then she starts instructing us on how to fulfill the Apostles mission! "They left a town if the town will not accept the message."

Your problem seems to be extensive!
ShieldsFamily [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:









Dont you think the SPs are going from town to town? Is the Holy Spirit different today than it was then? Why did Jesus say that greater works would we do than He did if the Holy Spirit is less powerful now? So you have found another mistake in the uninspired Bible? Jesus told his disciples He would come in His Kingdom before they preached to all the cities in Israelwhich He did. Maybe you missed it? Izzy





From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Caroline WongSent: Monday, May 16, 2005 8:08 AMTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSubject: Re: [TruthTalk] Street Preaching


The OT prophets were filled with the Spirit for a purpose. Anyone who think they have the same mission and anointing is most likely wrong. Jesus gave very specific instructions to how his apostles were to preach to the people. They left a town if the town will not accept the message. No need to continue to witness. 



Jesus also said he'd return before they've gone through all the towns of Israel. So, did we miss it? Did he mean something else? Or did thedisciples miss a few towns here and there? Israel ain't that big and they have many teams.



Love,



Caroline


- Original Message - 

From: ShieldsFamily 

To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 

Sent: Sunday, May 15, 2005 8:52 PM

Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Street Preaching


By your criteria were the OT prophets full of the fruit of the Spirit? Or were they not affable enough? Izzy





From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Caroline WongSent: Sunday, May 15, 2005 1:55 AMTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSubject: Re: [TruthTalk] Street Preaching


It is possible as I posted the story of the atheist meeting the street preacher on Yonge St. and finding him affable and easy to talk to. That was the street preacher walking up and down while dressed as Jesus and carrying a cross. 



You know people by their fruit and this is the fruit of the spirit: love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control



Love,



Caroline


- Original Message - 

From: ShieldsFamily 

To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 

Sent: Saturday, May 14, 2005 7:33 PM

Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Street Preaching


Would you agree that it is at least possible that the Holy Spirit can/does fill and guide street preachers also? Izzy





From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Caroline WongSent: Saturday, May 14, 2005 7:18 AMTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSubject: Re: [TruthTalk] Street Preaching


The OT prophets were filled with the Holy Spirit and commissioned by God. Each word that he spoke was an inspiration of the Spirit. I'll leave ya'll from various camps to decide for yourselves what the Street Preachers are filled with and who commissioned them.



- Original Message - 


From: Judy Taylor 

To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 

Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 

Sent: Saturday, May 14, 2005 1:47 AM

Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Street Preaching



I think the same could be said for every one of the OT Prophets, that is, the ones through whom we received the

scriptures. They were all street preachers and the reaction of Israel before the dispersion was the equivalent of

this Baptist fellow. Psych case huh? jt



On Fri, 13 May 2005 22:59:37 -0500 "Caroline Wong" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:


This was posted on the discussion board of baptistboard.com by dh1948. 



While visiting in Mobile recently, my wife and I were downtown walking past the Bienville Square. Walking around in the square was a street preacher. He was screaming...and I mean screaming...to the top of his lungs as he sauntered around preaching. His message was one of hell fire and brimstone...turn or burn. He sounded so angry.I had no problem with his message, but his method caused me to ask my wife, "Do you think this is really glorifying to God?" I question the method of standing on a street corner or in a public square and screaming out a gospel sermon. I thought, "If I was a lost person, how would I react to this man and his message?" After

[TruthTalk] Copying the Bible

*Note Subject Change
Subject was Rikk Watts on Genesis 1 and is now Copying the Bible

Caroline Wong wrote:
 Both errors are likely. People could deliberately
 add words to bolster the text and make it sound
 better.

Wait just one minute, please.  If you were copying the Scriptures, you would 
try real hard to copy it accurately, would you not?  Would *YOU* truly add 
words to bolster the text and make it sound better?  I'm talking about 
*YOU*.  Think about this carefully.  I would venture to say that if you were 
copying the Holy Scriptures, you would not add any words at all to make it 
sound better.  I know that I would not.

Caroline Wong wrote:
 In fact, Christians have been known to write whole
 books and letters and attribute them to Paul or John
 or some other Apostle. There was a lot of controversy
 and uncertainty so adding words make things more plain.

You are confusing outright forgery with monks copying the sacred text.  When 
scribes were copying texts, they were very careful NOT to add words and NOT 
to subtract words.  With this underlying paradigm at work here, which 
mistake is most likely to take place?  Would the addition of words or the 
omission of words be the most likely to occur if your modus operandi was 
trying to copy the text exactly and not add or subtract words?  I think the 
omission of words would be the most likely mistake.

Caroline Wong wrote:
 Biblical scholars were quite surprised when they found
 early manuscripts which did not contain lots of stuff like
 the ending to Mark or the story in John about the woman
 caught in adultery. Mark can be explained by saying the
 manuscript lost its ending but how do we explain John :-)
 We don't. We just put a note and say it's not in the early
 manuscripts.

You give up on explanations way too quickly!  It could be that the guy doing 
the copying was called to lunch by his buddy and when he came back, he 
picked up his copying efforts in the wrong place.  It also could be that the 
part of the text he was copying from was damaged.  Maybe he spilled his 
coffee on it, and so he planned to come back later when he could get an 
undamaged copy.  I haven't examined these manuscripts myself directly, but I 
have read reports of those who have that passages like Mark 16 actually have 
a large blank space where the omitted passage would fit.  It looks like 
indeed the copyist planned to come back later and fill it in.  This suggests 
to me that the copy he was working from was probably damaged in that place.

Caroline Wong wrote:
 If copyists lost words as they copied, the later manuscripts
 would have less words than the early ones.

Now you are thinking, but your assumption here is that all later manuscripts 
were copied from all earlier ones.  This is not true.  Many times copies 
were made that became a dead end.  In other words, no further copies were 
made from them.  I think this is the case with these two older manuscripts. 
We need to keep this fact of TWO manuscripts in mind because you talk about 
older manuscripts and some people might get the idea that there are a bunch 
of them.  The truth is that we are talking about TWO manuscripts which 
differ significantly from about 5,000 manuscripts that have a more recent 
date.  The big question is how this could be, which is why Westcott and Hort 
came up with their Syrian recension theory.  They postulated that these 
older Egyptian manuscripts were right but the majority of other manuscripts 
were wrong because there was a big mistake made early on from which all 
these other copies were made.  It makes much more sense that these two older 
manuscripts in Egypt are the ones which were mistaken, especially when you 
consider that the Sinaiticus text was found in a trash can at Saint 
Katherine's monastery.  (Incidentally, for trivia's sake, I would like to 
mention that I have visited this monastery and spent the night there.) 
Furthermore, the text was in all capital letters with no spaces between the 
words.  Was this perhaps some fun experiment some monk was doing because of 
his boredom with copying texts all day long?  For all we know, it was a 
teenager given the task as homework, and he didn't even want to be doing it. 
Maybe he was playing around with it like a modern day teenager does with 
video games.  If he was not a teenager, maybe he was someone just trying to 
make the Word of God more encrypted?  Who knows, but when we consider that 
the monks at this monastery had such little opinion of this Bible that they 
threw it away in the trash can, one must wonder why the modern scholars want 
to put so much stock in it.  The only thing it has going for it is its older 
date.  Is that really enough?

Peace be with you.
David Miller. 


--
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how you ought to answer every man.  (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org

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Re: [TruthTalk] baptism

Maybe we can stick to one thread, Betwixt us, then?Dave Hansen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Could you answer a few questionsI have?DAVEH: That becomes a problem, Kevin. I hardly have time to read all the TT posts, let alone answer the pertinent ones. Many times I don't see a need to respond to your posts, as they don't seem to ask questions. Other times, the questions you ask seem more rhetorical. But I do have quite a few of your posts highlighted and hope to get to them as I can. However, I am getting more of them than I can possibly respond to.Kevin Deegan wrote:

IF one of the parties does not want to have a meaningful exchange
The real question is which of the parties that might be.
Could you answer a few questionsI have?
Terry Clifton [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Dave Hansen wrote:
DAVEH: Nothing will make for easier discussions, IF one of the parties does not want to have a meaningful exchange, Kevin. I view TT as being a place where two or more people of contrasting opinions can explore why other's believe differently. I perceive that some TTers (such as yourself) are here not to have a meaningful discussion unless it results in the other person adopting your beliefs. Basically, you want to use TT as a forum to convert people to Christianity as you understand it...is that correct? Assuming so, you probably don't feel a need to find areas of common belief, but rather cut right to the chase and try to overwhelm your opponent with their error of thought/belief as you perceive it. Have I analyzed it correctly, Kevin? I harbor no illusions about changing your anti attitudes, Kevin. But I am curious as to why you are as you a re (and
why you believe as you do), if that makes any sense. It's just one of my hang-ups I suppose. ===That's not a hang up, Dave. That is the Lord trying to get you to see the truth. You are seeking because what you have does not satisfy.My fee is only fifty bucks. We live in an economocally challenged area where things are less expensive.

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[TruthTalk] Free Speech

*Note Subject Change
Subject was baptism and is now Free Speech

Caroline Wong wrote:
 Canada understands that free speech is meant to serve
 a democratic society.  You can't yell fire in a crowded
 theatre. You can't do false advertising. You can't claim
 credentials you don't have. You can't lie while under oath
 in a court room. And you can't slander, libel, intimidate,
 threaten or speak hatefully to your fellow human being.
 We put a high value on people. Americans put high value
 on principles and rights.

We have the same restrictions on speech here in this country, and I agree 
with them.  All this is contained in the commandment, thou shalt not bear 
false witness.

I very much disagree, however, with Canada's ruling that Romans 1 and 
Leviticus 20:13 exposes homosexuals to hatred.  What about you?  Do you 
agree or disagree with the idea that Christians who would publish references 
to these verses in newspapers should be prosecuted and found guilty of human 
rights violations?

Peace be with you.
David Miller. 


--
Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know 
how you ought to answer every man.  (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org

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Re: [TruthTalk] baptism

DAVEH: ??? So you are suggesting that the things I mentioned---apostles, prophets, temples, etc.---are not necessary today, Kevin? If so, I respectfully disagree.
Obviously not! I posted here to show we do have priests. We have Jesus the HIGH PRIEST who has an UNENDING Priesthood. Each every believer holds the priesthood. In a separate post I listed the responsibilities of such.

Each every believer is the TEMPLE made without hands, where God wants to come and dwell. What a awesome thought, what a responsibility. God wants to take that old house of flash and make it Holy and dwell inside there!

Seemed you were claiming that LDS had something that Christians do not and that Christians should desire those things.Dave Hansen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
DAVEH: ??? So you are suggesting that the things I mentioned---apostles, prophets, temples, etc.---are not necessary today, Kevin? If so, I respectfully disagree. Kevin Deegan wrote:

DH says The Lord's people of Bible times needed prophets.WE have "THE Prophet" Luke 1 And thou, child, shalt be called THE PROPHET of the Highest
DH says The Lord's people of Bible times needed the Priesthood
RV 1 And hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father; to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.
JESUS IS HIGH PRIEST Heb 5:6 Thou art a priest for ever afterthe order of Melchisedec v10 Called of God an high priest after the order of Melchisedec.
UNENDING PRIEST HB 7 Without father, without mother, without descent, having neither beginning of days, nor end of life; but made like unto the Son of God; abideth a priest continually.
HB 7 But this man, because he continueth ever, hath an unchangeable priesthood.
HB 7 Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec.
HB 7 For the priesthood being changed
APOSTLE HIGH PRIEST HB 3:1 Wherefore, holy brethren, partakers of the heavenly calling, consider the Apostle and High Priest of our profession, Christ Jesus
DH says The Lord's people of Bible times needed Temples
Acts 7:48 Howbeit the most High dwelleth not in temples made with hands
1 Co 6:19 What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own?
1 PT 2:5 Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ.
Dave Hansen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
DAVEH: Is it better to realize something is missing, and search for it? Or is it better to feel comfortable assuming nothing is missing, and then stubbornly deny the need for more knowledge of the gospel? The Lord's people of Bible times needed prophets. The Lord's people of Bible times needed revelation The Lord's people of Bible times needed further Scripture The Lord's people of Bible times needed the Priesthood The Lord's people of Bible times needed Temples Could it be a Pride in their own Righteousness that would cause some today to label LDS (Liars, Deceivers, SEDUCERS) and then suggest we do not need the things the Lord's people needed in Bible times???Kevin Deeg
an wrote:

The WHOLE Mormon argument is you are missing something.
You need further revelation your Bible is incomplete, in error and lacking in the truth
You have the Bible BUT do you have the Book of Mormon? (Like the recent TV add)
You need Joe Smith
You need the priesthood
You need the Temple
etc.
So LDS beguile unstable souls with enticing words Col 2:4
HERE FOLLOWS THE ONLY SECTION WHICH MAY BY ANY STRETCH (or BEND) OF THE IMAGINATION BE CONSTRUED AS AN ASPERSION:
In actuallity it is LDS who are generally full of Pride in their own Righteousness
They have so much you don't have after all.
This is why some label LDS (Liars, Deceivers, SEDUCERS)--
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[TruthTalk] Carolyn asks: Did we miss it? Was: Street Preaching

2005-05-16 Thread Charles Perry Locke

From: Caroline Wong [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Street Preaching
Date: Mon, 16 May 2005 09:07:49 -0500
Jesus also said he'd return before they've gone through all the towns of 
Israel. So, did we miss it?
Carolyn, I would love to hear your answer to the question you posed above. 
Can you provide a little rationale along with your answer, too, instead of a 
simple yes or no? This is an area in which I have an interest and on which I 
like to hear different viewpoints.

If anyone else would like to answer this question, please do. Each of us 
probably has a unique viewpoint on this issue. Yes, you mormon boys are 
invited, too.

Perry
--
Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you 
ought to answer every man.  (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org
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Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] baptism

CW All the schools are proactive in stopping bullying because they know kids lives can be ruined to the point where grade schoolers contemplate suicide.
So Canadian Culture has successfully done what no other culture in the history of man has done? Do you have kids?
Caroline Wong [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
This may be beyond your understanding but people can be fired for racist or sexist remarks at the office. People watch their mouths. Some bosses find ways to be abusive without being racist or sexist but they have a high turnover in staff. And I'm sure the Lord judges them whether they are believers or not.All the schools are proactive in stopping bullying because they know kids lives can be ruined to the point where grade schoolers contemplate suicide. Your family solved the problem by homeschooling. But bullying is a real problem and one that is not tolerated.Love,Caroline- Original Message - From: "ShieldsFamily" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>To: Sent: Sunday, May 15, 2005 8:37 PMSubject: RE: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] baptism Boy, Canada would have a field day in any
gradeschool classroom. Or any family with multiple children. Do they have tapes of the conversations at the office during lunch hour? Izzy -Original Message- And you can't ...speak hatefully to your fellow human being. -- "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed. --"Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.orgIf you do not want to receive
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Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] Street Preaching

Caroline Wong wrote:
 God is love. Now in light of His being love,
 tell me what His wrath and His hate is like?

How about we start with the following description of God's wrath:

Revelation 16:1-21
(1) And I heard a great voice out of the temple saying to the seven angels, 
Go your ways, and pour out the vials of the wrath of God upon the earth.
(2) And the first went, and poured out his vial upon the earth; and there 
fell a noisome and grievous sore upon the men which had the mark of the 
beast, and upon them which worshipped his image.
(3) And the second angel poured out his vial upon the sea; and it became as 
the blood of a dead man: and every living soul died in the sea.
(4) And the third angel poured out his vial upon the rivers and fountains of 
waters; and they became blood.
(5) And I heard the angel of the waters say, Thou art righteous, O Lord, 
which art, and wast, and shalt be, because thou hast judged thus.
(6) For they have shed the blood of saints and prophets, and thou hast given 
them blood to drink; for they are worthy.
(7) And I heard another out of the altar say, Even so, Lord God Almighty, 
true and righteous are thy judgments.
(8) And the fourth angel poured out his vial upon the sun; and power was 
given unto him to scorch men with fire.
(9) And men were scorched with great heat, and blasphemed the name of God, 
which hath power over these plagues: and they repented not to give him 
glory.
(10) And the fifth angel poured out his vial upon the seat of the beast; and 
his kingdom was full of darkness; and they gnawed their tongues for pain,
(11) And blasphemed the God of heaven because of their pains and their 
sores, and repented not of their deeds.
(12) And the sixth angel poured out his vial upon the great river Euphrates; 
and the water thereof was dried up, that the way of the kings of the east 
might be prepared.
(13) And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs come out of the mouth of the 
dragon, and out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false 
prophet.
(14) For they are the spirits of devils, working miracles, which go forth 
unto the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the 
battle of that great day of God Almighty.
(15) Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his 
garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame.
(16) And he gathered them together into a place called in the Hebrew tongue 
Armageddon.
(17) And the seventh angel poured out his vial into the air; and there came 
a great voice out of the temple of heaven, from the throne, saying, It is 
done.
(18) And there were voices, and thunders, and lightnings; and there was a 
great earthquake, such as was not since men were upon the earth, so mighty 
an earthquake, and so great.
(19) And the great city was divided into three parts, and the cities of the 
nations fell: and great Babylon came in remembrance before God, to give unto 
her the cup of the wine of the fierceness of his wrath.
(20) And every island fled away, and the mountains were not found.
(21) And there fell upon men a great hail out of heaven, every stone about 
the weight of a talent: and men blasphemed God because of the plague of the 
hail; for the plague thereof was exceeding great.

Do you find yourself in agreement with this description of God's wrath?  Do 
you say, you are righteous Lord for judging this way or are you troubled 
by this description of God?  Do you try to find ways to explain it away?

Peace be with you.
David Miller. 


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RE: [TruthTalk] Copying the Bible

2005-05-16 Thread Charles Perry Locke

I am no authority on copying or scripture origins, but I have understood 
that when biblical texts were copied, the copyists understood they were on a 
mission from God, (what could be more blessed than being entrusted with 
accurately copying the Holy Word of God?) and that intentionally doing 
anything other than a perfect job would be considered bearing false witness 
and blasphemy. Also, they were checked and double checked, letter by letter, 
and if even one letter was in error, the entire page was scrapped and the 
source recopied. Maybe this explains the texts found in the trash. Maybe 
they had a letter wrong. Or a smudge.

Perry
From: David Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Reply-To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Subject: [TruthTalk] Copying the Bible
Date: Mon, 16 May 2005 11:16:32 -0400
*Note Subject Change
Subject was Rikk Watts on Genesis 1 and is now Copying the Bible
Caroline Wong wrote:
 Both errors are likely. People could deliberately
 add words to bolster the text and make it sound
 better.
Wait just one minute, please.  If you were copying the Scriptures, you 
would
try real hard to copy it accurately, would you not?  Would *YOU* truly add
words to bolster the text and make it sound better?  I'm talking about
*YOU*.  Think about this carefully.  I would venture to say that if you 
were
copying the Holy Scriptures, you would not add any words at all to make it
sound better.  I know that I would not.

Caroline Wong wrote:
 In fact, Christians have been known to write whole
 books and letters and attribute them to Paul or John
 or some other Apostle. There was a lot of controversy
 and uncertainty so adding words make things more plain.
You are confusing outright forgery with monks copying the sacred text.  
When
scribes were copying texts, they were very careful NOT to add words and NOT
to subtract words.  With this underlying paradigm at work here, which
mistake is most likely to take place?  Would the addition of words or the
omission of words be the most likely to occur if your modus operandi was
trying to copy the text exactly and not add or subtract words?  I think the
omission of words would be the most likely mistake.

Caroline Wong wrote:
 Biblical scholars were quite surprised when they found
 early manuscripts which did not contain lots of stuff like
 the ending to Mark or the story in John about the woman
 caught in adultery. Mark can be explained by saying the
 manuscript lost its ending but how do we explain John :-)
 We don't. We just put a note and say it's not in the early
 manuscripts.
You give up on explanations way too quickly!  It could be that the guy 
doing
the copying was called to lunch by his buddy and when he came back, he
picked up his copying efforts in the wrong place.  It also could be that 
the
part of the text he was copying from was damaged.  Maybe he spilled his
coffee on it, and so he planned to come back later when he could get an
undamaged copy.  I haven't examined these manuscripts myself directly, but 
I
have read reports of those who have that passages like Mark 16 actually 
have
a large blank space where the omitted passage would fit.  It looks like
indeed the copyist planned to come back later and fill it in.  This 
suggests
to me that the copy he was working from was probably damaged in that place.

Caroline Wong wrote:
 If copyists lost words as they copied, the later manuscripts
 would have less words than the early ones.
Now you are thinking, but your assumption here is that all later 
manuscripts
were copied from all earlier ones.  This is not true.  Many times copies
were made that became a dead end.  In other words, no further copies were
made from them.  I think this is the case with these two older manuscripts.
We need to keep this fact of TWO manuscripts in mind because you talk about
older manuscripts and some people might get the idea that there are a bunch
of them.  The truth is that we are talking about TWO manuscripts which
differ significantly from about 5,000 manuscripts that have a more recent
date.  The big question is how this could be, which is why Westcott and 
Hort
came up with their Syrian recension theory.  They postulated that these
older Egyptian manuscripts were right but the majority of other manuscripts
were wrong because there was a big mistake made early on from which all
these other copies were made.  It makes much more sense that these two 
older
manuscripts in Egypt are the ones which were mistaken, especially when you
consider that the Sinaiticus text was found in a trash can at Saint
Katherine's monastery.  (Incidentally, for trivia's sake, I would like to
mention that I have visited this monastery and spent the night there.)
Furthermore, the text was in all capital letters with no spaces between the
words.  Was this perhaps some fun experiment some monk was doing because of
his boredom with copying texts all day long?  For all we know, it was a
teenager given the task as homework, and he

Re: [TruthTalk] Street Preaching

There was a man by the name of James White who took this approach for 18 years before the Street Preachers came to the Mormon conferences. He too was upset with the arrival of the Street Preachers.

There are other "evangelical" one on one witness/tracting ministries to Mormons, that have operated for years in Salt lake and at other events. The only acceptable ministry to the mormons is NO ministry.
http://www.fairlds.org/apol/ai153.html

1) They were targets of the Mormons before we became the new targets. Even though they practice "kinder gentler Loving" ministry.
http://www.mrm.org/multimedia/text/mrm-anti-mormon.html

2) The Evangelical Ministries bought into the lies and deceit being heaped upon the SP's

3) The Evangelicals who have been eyewitnesses have changed their tune and now support us to at least some degree

4) The MIA Ministries that I rarely if eversee doing any work in public, still regard us as portrayed in the stories they pass along.

5) Mr Johnson had his day in the news and has now moved on to bigger fish and the evangelicals are fumed at what Mr Johson hath wrought
http://www.mrm.org/multimedia/text/richard-mouw.html

On a personal note I worked for about 10 years with a one on one tracting ministry to the mormons. I have seen more LDS saved in just one weekend of preaching at general conference than all 10 years in the tracting/witnessing ministry.
By the way JD, we send the new believersto local ChurchesDavid Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

Blaine wrote:
These street preachers mostly just annoy people,
make a spectacle of themselves.

You seem toomit from mention the many converts they have made among the Mormons.

Blaine wrote:
There must be a better way for them to communicate their
messages, which in some instances might actually do some
lost souls some good if they could be approached less
obtrusively, and with a show of dignity--a virtue that seems
lost on them.

There was a man by the name of James White who took this approach for 18 years before the Street Preachers came to the Mormon conferences. He too was upset with the arrival of the Street Preachers. Maybe someone should ask God why he decided to change his approach toward the Mormons.

Peace be with you.David Miller.
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Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] Street Preaching





Ruben Israel wrote:

  
  
  
  
  The
biblical idea that God is our Father is a New Covenant
consideration. Whatever old testament scripture one can quote
concerning God, it must now be seen as a statement concerning the
Father. It is the wrath of a father thatis encountered in the new
covenant age. In Christ, this father shed His blood for us --
while we were still sinners (and sinning). He does not leave that
emotion behind when His emotion is one of anger or disappointment
 no more than a father stops loving his children when they
miss up their lives. In fact, some fathers love their children
more in that circumstance. Grace and mercy are all the more
present. 
  =
  

The children of God are the ones who walk in the spirit. Those who
walk in the flesh are His enemy. Romans, chapter eight, if you
believe the Bible..
If not, never mind.
Terry

Re: [TruthTalk] Street Preaching

DAVEH: Does JW now employ the same obnoxious tactics?
He only hands out literature. What is so OBNOXIOUS?
Dave Hansen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
DAVEH: Does JW now employ the same obnoxious tactics?David Miller wrote: 

There was a man by the name of James White who took this approach for 18 years before the Street Preachers came to the Mormon conferences. He too was upset with the arrival of the Street Preachers. Maybe someone should ask God why he decided to change his approach toward the Mormons.

Peace be with you.David Miller.-- 
~~~
Dave Hansen
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
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Re: [TruthTalk] Street Preaching




DaveH wrote:
 Does JW now employ the same obnoxious tactics?

No, James White isagainst the approach of the Street Preachers. 
I actually wrote him several times trying to urge him to work with the street 
preachers, because he has some good apologetic literature on the subject, but he 
wanted nothing to do with them. If you ask me, Whitewas a little 
jealous of how the street preachers had all the attention of the Mormons making 
White'stract passing effortsfutile in comparison, but 
Whitewould never admit to this. I told him the same thing I have 
said in this forum. Someone needs to ask God why he sent the street 
preachers there.

Peace be with you.David Miller.

Re: [TruthTalk] Copying the Bible

Caroline Wong wrote:
 If copyists lost words as they copied, the later manuscripts
 would have less words than the early ones.

By the way, I hope you do realize that the modern versions of the Bible for 
the most part do have less words than the older ones.

Peace be with you.
David Miller. 


--
Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know 
how you ought to answer every man.  (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org

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PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed.  If you have a friend who wants to 
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Re: [TruthTalk] Street Preaching

Caroline Wong wrote:
 Jesus gave very specific instructions to how his apostles
 were to preach to the people. They left a town if the town
 will not accept the message. No need to continue to witness.

These were specific instructions regarding a specific ministry trip.  Later, 
before Jesus even died, he gave them different instructions, teaching them 
to stay in Jerusalem.  Jerusalem did not receive their message, yet they 
stayed there.  (See Luke 22:35-36 for how Jesus made a transition in 
ministry instructions to his apostles.)

Peace be with you.
David Miller. 


--
Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know 
how you ought to answer every man.  (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org

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Re: [TruthTalk] Street Preaching

It is a shame why can't we work together? I guess he got his feathers ruffled and he left cause we "poisoned the waters" If he was really interested in ministry to LDS and wnated to avoid us, he could go to a different location. (The Temple sq is a whole city block) Seems more interested in coffee breaks.David Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:




DaveH wrote:
 Does JW now employ the same obnoxious tactics?

No, James White isagainst the approach of the Street Preachers. I actually wrote him several times trying to urge him to work with the street preachers, because he has some good apologetic literature on the subject, but he wanted nothing to do with them. If you ask me, Whitewas a little jealous of how the street preachers had all the attention of the Mormons making White'stract passing effortsfutile in comparison, but Whitewould never admit to this. I told him the same thing I have said in this forum. Someone needs to ask God why he sent the street preachers there.

Peace be with you.David Miller.
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Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] Street Preaching

2005-05-16 Thread Ruben Israel




Sorry I never wrote this: 
Ruben (the real one)
Ruben 
  Israel wrote: 
  




The 
biblical idea that God is our Father is a New Covenant 
consideration. Whatever old testament scripture one can 
quote concerning God, it must now be seen as a statement concerning 
the Father. It is the wrath of a father thatis encountered in 
the new covenant age. In Christ, this father shed His blood for 
us -- while we were still sinners (and 
sinning). He does not leave that emotion behind when His emotion 
is one of anger or disappointment  no more 
than a father stops loving his children when they miss up their 
lives. In fact, some fathers love their 
children more in that circumstance. Grace and mercy are all the more 
present. 
=The 
  children of God are the ones who walk in the spirit. Those who walk in 
  the flesh are His enemy. Romans, chapter eight, if you believe the 
  Bible..If not, never mind.Terry

Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] Street Preaching





I know. Don't know how your name got up there.
My apology for making you lokk like a liberal.
Terry

Ruben Israel wrote:

  
  
  
  Sorry I never wrote this: 
  Ruben (the real one)
  
  Ruben
Israel wrote:

  
  
  
  The
biblical idea that God is our Father is a New Covenant
consideration. Whatever old testament scripture one can quote
concerning God, it must now be seen as a statement concerning the
Father. It is the wrath of a father thatis encountered in the new
covenant age. In Christ, this father shed His blood for us --
while we were still sinners (and sinning). He does not leave that
emotion behind when His emotion is one of anger or disappointment
 no more than a father stops loving his children when they
miss up their lives. In fact, some fathers love their children
more in that circumstance. Grace and mercy are all the more
present. 
  =
  

The children of God are the ones who walk in the spirit. Those who
walk in the flesh are His enemy. Romans, chapter eight, if you
believe the Bible..
If not, never mind.
Terry

Re: [TruthTalk] Toronto Blessing Alpha




I agree with you that we can not change ourselves 
despite what modernity, philosophy, positive thinking and philosophy say. It is 
the Holy Spirit that transforms us and there is no limit to what He can do. 


Kevin, you understand that sinners can not do good. 
Why do you expect those who do not know God or the bible to accept biblical 
teaching and to stop sinning? 


- Original Message - 

  From: 
  Kevin 
  Deegan 
  To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
  
  Sent: Monday, May 16, 2005 6:36 AM
  Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Toronto Blessing 
   Alpha
  
  
  Jer 13:23 Can the Ethiopian change his skin, or the 
  leopard his spots? then may ye also do good, that are accustomed to do 
  evil. 

  






There does seem to be a 
renaissance of Catholics reading and studying the bible. Some are even 
moving beyond prescribed prayer. Not many but it's a start. Perhaps they 
will reform the church.



Love,



Caroline
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Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] Street Preaching




My dear Kevin, I'm sorry if I had accused you of 
shouting and you weren't. Perhaps you never raised your voice but went around as 
quiet as a church mouse and those horrid sinners, perverts, fornicators jumped 
all over you for no reason at all. Perhaps your voice is never heard more than 
25 ft away and every man seeking eternal life must come close to you to hear 
words of truth. 

If that is so, then I do owe you an apology. I was 
never an eye witness to your preaching and only know you by what you post here 
and by what I read of other people's accounts. Would Reuben or David or anyone 
else at the LDS convention like to testify as to whether shouting took place? Is 
shouting the norm for Street Preachers or do they just quietly hand out tracts 
and await an invitation to engage in conversation? If one met up with 10 SPs, 
how many are shouters and how many are not?

Oh wait, those are dumb questions. I just 
remembered readingthat Street Preachers carry bullhorns. So you weren't 
shouting after all. And I do apologize for accusing you of shouting. In the 
future, I should just say "saying things that your listeners perceived as mean, 
belittling, insulting and enraging in a mechanically amplified voice in a public 
arena."which I'll shorten to "street preaching" for future reference. But 
you weren't shouting.

- Original Message - 

  From: 
  Kevin 
  Deegan 
  To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
  
  Sent: Monday, May 16, 2005 7:16 AM
  Subject: Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] Street 
  Preaching
  
  Right and of course it is not possible that we are not shouting (you 
  False witness) and that the sinners are angry because they are not ready to 
  hear God's word but came to an event to sin with both hands earnestly? 
  Caroline Wong [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  wrote: 
  



Paul ran into trouble for the same reason JD 
did. He was saying something the people weren't prepared to hear. When you 
do that, you don't have to shout to get people angry. Paul told the Jews 
that there is a new covenant, and a new way to salvation which included the 
Gentiles. JD merely believes God is love and that He loves sinners while you 
believe He is angry with sinners 24/7

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Kevin Deegan 
  To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
  
  Sent: Sunday, May 15, 2005 8:47 
  PM
  Subject: Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] 
  Street Preaching
  
  Does the Book of Acts have an ending or should that style of 
  preaching continue today?
  
  If we are to preach the NT "love gospel" why did paul run into so 
  much trouble?
  
  Acts 13:45 But when the Jews saw the multitudes, they were filled 
  with envy, and spake against those things which were spoken by Paul, 
  contradicting and blaspheming.13:50 But the Jews stirred up the devout 
  and honourable women, and the chief men of the city, and raised 
  persecution against Paul and Barnabas, and expelled them out of their 
  coasts.
  (LDS emulate Jews)
  14:5 And when there was an assault made both of the Gentiles, and 
  also of the Jews with their rulers, to use them despitefully, and to stone 
  them,
  14:19 And there came thither certain Jews from Antioch and Iconium, 
  who persuaded the people, and having stoned Paul, drew him out of the 
  city, supposing he had been dead.
  16:23 And when they had laid many stripes upon them, they cast them 
  into prison, charging the jailor to keep them safely
  18:6 And when they opposed themselves, and blasphemed
  19:23 And the same time there arose no small stir about that 
  way.
  19;32 Some therefore cried one thing, and some another: for the 
  assembly was confused
  20:23 Save that the Holy Ghost witnesseth in every city, saying that 
  bonds and afflictions abide me.
  22:22-24 And they gave him audience unto this word, and then lifted 
  up their voices, and said, Away with such a fellow from the earth: for it 
  is not fit that he should live. And as they cried out, and cast off their 
  clothes, and threw dust into the air The chief captain commanded him to be 
  brought into the castle, and bade that he should be examined by 
  scourging
  23:2 And the high priest Ananias commanded them that stood by him to 
  smite him on the mouth.
  23:10 And when there arose a great dissension, the chief captain, 
  fearing lest Paul should have been pulled in pieces of them, commanded the 
  soldiers to go down, and to take him by force from among them, and to 
  bring him into the castle.
  23:12 And when it was day, certain of the Jews banded together, and 
  bound themselves under a curse, saying that they would neither eat nor 
  drink till they had killed Paul.
  24:5-6 For we have found this man a pestilent fellow, and a mover of 
  sedition

Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Rikk Watts on Genesis 1




He tells us in many ways as He is not limited by 
anything. He tells us through scripture, through other people, through 
experiences and through prayer. These are only just some of the ways. If we 
ignore Him, then the consequences of our sins grow and we become more enslaved. 
He continues to speak to us and He may have to use pain and adversity to do so. 
He never abandons us. He never stops loving us.

I should also add that not all pain, adversity and 
illness is the result of personal sin. It could be the sin of other people or 
just living in a fallen world. It'll take real wisdom and knowledge to tell 
another why he is suffering and what he should do about it. 

Love,

Caroline

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  ShieldsFamily 
  To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
  
  Sent: Sunday, May 15, 2005 9:13 PM
  Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Fw: Rikk Watts 
  on Genesis 1
  
  
  
  And HOW does he tell 
  us this? And what does He do if we IGNORE Him? 
  Izzy
  
  
  
  
  
  He tells us when we're wrong 
  (judgment) so that we can turn and do right. 
  
  
  Love,
  
  
  
  Caroline

Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Rikk Watts on Genesis 1




The Holy Spirit gives some the gift of discerning 
of spirits. Such people can see angels and demons. They can see how the actions 
of humans affect the warfare all around us. Be careful not to mock what you do 
not understand.

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Kevin 
  Deegan 
  To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
  
  Sent: Monday, May 16, 2005 6:51 AM
  Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Rikk Watts 
  on Genesis 1
  
  Who knows what doors in the spiritual realm will be opened 
  and what pollution would be released?
  New Age "CHRISTianity" are you talking about incantations?
  Caroline Wong [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  wrote:
  





  Yes Christ became a curse for us so that we don't 
  have to walk in it- but we are. Something is very wrong 
  because the Church is just as sick as the world. Go to any doctor's 
  waiting room - you won't be able to tell the difference andthis 
  ought not to be. Why is the Churchwearing the curse? Because 
  we don't understand sin, righteousness, or judgment as Per Hosea 4:6 - 
  while we are busy being nice folk and respecting ppl Satan is eating us 
  for lunch and because pastors don't want to deal with it some are even 
  teaching that thisis a blessing.
  
  Caroline:
  I agree with you that on key things like divorce or sickness, there 
  doesn't seem to be much difference between Christians and nonChristians. 
  We do not seem to have the victorious life. I think it's because we're 
  don't understand spiritual power and spiritual battle. The things that are 
  powerful in the spiritual realm (prayer, forgiveness, confession, 
  humility, love, generosity etc) are foolishness in the physical realm. 
  You're right when you say Satan is eating people for lunch. I think when 
  people get angry or become proud and arrogant, they open doors in the 
  spiritual realm for all sorts of demons and spiritual junk. That's why I 
  refrain from unnecesarily making people angry or proud. Unless someone is 
  ready to hear, they won't hear. Forcing them to listen will only make them 
  angry. Jesus said not to throw pearls before swine.
  
  Maybe your denomination has taught you that we 
  will be perfected when the final trump sounds and the Church is raptured 
  off to heaven. Well God doesn't need us perfected up there, he has 
  enough perfect ones and no sin there. He needs us to do the work of the 
  ministry here. Kevin may notbelieve exactly like me but he is 
  busydoing what he believes God has called him to do and some of you 
  areall over him like a rash in spite of what God says about division 
  and strife (in his eyes thisis the same as adultery) Grace and 
  Peace, judyt
  
  Caroline
  My denomination (and many others) teach that 
  we'll be changed in the twinkling of an eye at death. And that now we see 
  poorly but after we'll see clearly. I personally believe God judges us 
  whenever we sin so that we can know what not to do. Then He forgives us 
  and teaches us so that not only will we know what to do, we'll be able to 
  do that. Sin has consequences and can enslave us. His forgiveness frees us 
  to obey Him. On most days, I have no problems allowing Kevin to do what he 
  feels is his call. Today, God asked me if I wanted to be a Street 
  Preacher. Would I like to hold up a sign and yell at Kevin and rebuke 
  him.Oh yes! I cried. But on thinking it over, I think the better answer is 
  no. To do so would be to harden Kevin. David might consider what I wrote, 
  sift through my words for anything from God but Kevin will automatically 
  assume everything I'm waving in his face or yelling at him is from the 
  devil and we will end up yelling at each other to the detriment of both 
  our souls. Who knows what doors in the spiritual realm will be opened and 
  what pollution would be released? Like Debbie, who is wiser that me, I may 
  have to bow out of this arena.
  
  Love,
  
  Caroline
  
  
  Do you Yahoo!?Make 
  Yahoo! your home page

Re: [TruthTalk] Street Preaching

There is spiritual protection in leading a
righteous life and there is protection in belonging to a godly community. When
Paul advised the Corinthians to expel the immoral brother, it was so that he can
experience the full consequences of his sin. In his follow up letter, 2 Cor, he
told them to take him back in because he repented.

We can't force people to love God or to obey Him.
We can only let people choose.

Love,

Caroline

- Original Message -
From:
Judy
Taylor
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org

Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org

Sent: Monday, May 16, 2005 4:16 AM
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Street
Preaching

I don't believe Jesus was at this time using Himself
as the example Caroline; remember He was born in Israel under the Law
andhis culture at the timetax collectors and pagans
wereostracised and made outcastswhich is similar to what Paul
counselled the Corinthian Church to do with the man whorefused to repent
of his moral issues and accept correction. Paul advised turning him over
toSatan for the destruction of the flesh with the hope that he would
later repent and his soul wouldbe saved

We've not learned this lesson and this is why we are
not receiving a whole lot from God. Under the Old Covenant everyone was
expected to follow the Law which is our friend rather than an enemy; God's
Commandments arn't grievious... and yes forgiveness is paramount if we want to
walk with God. jt

On Sun, 15 May 2005 22:59:14 -0500 "Caroline Wong" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
writes:

Step 4. and if your brother refuses to listen
to the church, treat him as you would a pagan or a tax
collector.

Step 5. and how did Jesus treat pagans and tax
collectors? He did not expect them to be able to follow the law and be
righteous. He loved them and ate with them. And they enjoyed his
presence.

Then Peter asked Jesus, how many times am I
suppose to forgive my brother? Seventy times seven according to some
manuscripts. Then Jesus told a parable that tells us how much we've been
forgiven and warns us against unforgiveness. Interesting sidebar: the moral
of the story was not - you've been forgiven much so you better be good! but
you've been forgiven much so you ought to forgive those who sinned against
you.

From: Kevin Deegan

IF Johnson is a Christian and that is a big if
Gal 6:1 Brethren, if a man be overtaken in a
fault, ye which are spiritual, restore such an one in the spirit of
meekness; considering thyself, lest thou also be tempted.
Matthew 18:15-18, Jesus outlines three steps to take in talking to
your brother, in dealing with unrepentant sin.

STEP 1 GO TO YOUR BROTHER: Moreover if thy brother shall trespass against thee, go and
tell him his fault between thee and him alone: if
he shall hear thee, thou hast gained thy brother.
STEP 2 BRING OTHER BRO's WITH YOU: But if he will not hear thee, then take with thee one or two
more, that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be
established.
STEP 3 TAKE IT TO THE
CHURCH: And if he shall neglect to hear them,
tell it unto the church: but if he neglect to hear the church, let him be
unto thee as an heathen man and a publican.
He ignored all
three of these. What a example of a Man of God! Did
any of these guys come to us as commanded by the scriptures? NO Instead of
following the scriptures, and bringing it before the Church, Mr Johnson
went right to the news Media and used our reputations as his springboard
into a bigger more profitable ministry. A friend of mine interviewed on
radio an associate of Mr Johnson. When asked if he tried to do MT 18, said
he came down to the temple but could not find us. ROTFL what a liar. Maybe
we are not as loud as some claim. And those 6 foot by 4 foot banners over
our heads are not easy to spot!
SINCE MR Johnson and his friends ignore MT 18 I think it only fair for
us to follow thru on what he did not. We have attempted to talk to them as
outlined and should now treat him as directed
"let him be unto thee as an heathen man and a
publican."Caroline Wong
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

From ChristianityToday.com http://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/2004/002/14.18.html
Looks like I'm not the only Christian who
felt bad about what happened at the LDS conference

Winning Them SoftlyEvangelicals try to reach Mormons with respectand hard
science.By John W.
Kennedy | posted
01/16/2004
After years of ineffective and often acrimonious
evangelism by various preachers and groups, a new coalition of
evangelical clergy in Utah is

Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] Street Preaching




I ask because it is possible you're totally unaware 
of how you come across to people. 

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Kevin 
  Deegan 
  To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
  
  Sent: Monday, May 16, 2005 7:09 AM
  Subject: Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] Street 
  Preaching
  
  CW says Kevin, do you preach the same way 
  you post here?
  Why would you ask. You have posted extensively on it, and now you want 
  toKNOW how I preach? Need more gossip I mean prayer requests for the 
  Brethren?
  Don't you think you Mr Johson should haveobeyed Matt 18 and not 
  skipped step 1,2,3 and gone direct to the News media?
  Do you think christians that have a problem with Street Preaching should 
  have gossip sessions with the brethren but not discuss their concerns with the 
  SP? MT 18
  Do you think the brethren should upon hearing that a SP did such and such 
  go right to the brethren to repeat the story? Do you think it is possible that 
  some Lost would have no problem creating lies to perpetuate? Do you think it 
  possible that some lostwould devise Devices, and use these to divide and 
  conquer? ( that is their design separate the brethren)Wheres the UNITY? 
  Why is it that Christians will believe a story from a Mormon, agospel 
  hater, a shop keeper concerned over mamon, even a satanist,and not take 
  it to the offender (SP) when they have the opportunity?But they will 
  take it direct to the Brethren? Do you think it is possible that some lost may 
  actually hate the gospel? some may beactual enemies of the 
  gospel?
  Christianity Today put my picture in that article. Did they even talk to 
  any of us whoose reputation they dragged thru the mud, for our side of the 
  story? The story must be gospel it is in print you know. 
  Just wondering...Caroline Wong 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  

His code applies to you... and me. To all 
sinners. 

Kevin, do you preach the same way you post 
here?

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Kevin Deegan 
  To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
  
  Sent: Sunday, May 15, 2005 7:57 
  PM
  Subject: Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] 
  Street Preaching
  
  I incorporate the message of love in my ministry becau 
  se of the information I find in the letters of the apostles and 
  prophets. The commands that bear repeating in I John are 
  "love God" and "love the brethren."
  Does your code also apply if you were preaching to a bunch of 
  SODOMites?
  What would you preach seems like a popular message "God loves you 
  just the way you are?"[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  


I personally have reason to respect Ruben Israel. My 
comments are not personal. But --- 
"different strokesfor different folks" is my response to Ruben's defense. What is in evidence, I 
suppose, is thatpreaching (including "street preaching")is 
an acceptable vehicle for spreading the message of hope. Except 
for the Noah example, what we have is a series of examplesof 
how the message was presented to the children of God 
--- the Jews.We are 
repeatedly reminded that among these people of God, few would 
respond. Perhaps Heb 6:4-6 explains why.No doubt, preaching the 
message of God's love apart from His disappointment (His wrath) 
gives one something less than the full picture. I 
incorporate the message of love in my ministry becau se of the 
information I find in the letters of the apostles and 
prophets. The commands that bear repeating in I John 
are "love God" and "love the brethren." We are reminded that 
" no one has seen God at any time -- but if we love one another, 
God abides in us" I J 4:12. In fact, "if God loved us, 
we should love others" ( I J 4:11). I include the radical 
notion of love in my ministry because I see it in the words of 
Paul -- "I become all things to all men so that 
by all means I might save some." The fulfillment of the Law 
gave us liberty -- but Paul reminds us that we are 
constrained by -- aah love 
!! " The gospel of John presents the very reason 
for the Incarnation -- "Because God loved the 
world " The Fatherhood of God is an exclusive New 
Testament consideration. At the centreof Fatherhood is this thing we seek to 
exclude - love. We dare not forget 
the very essence of God 
-- expressed in the statement "God is love." The letters of 
the apostles are full of considerate dialogue and loving 
guidance.Paul reminds us that knowledge has its limitations, 
but if we love, we are known by God.  Where harsh straight 
talk may bethe way to the Jewish heart, it certainly was not 
the norm in other

Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] Street Preaching




Jesus said no one born of women is greater than John the Baptist. Does that 
include Jesus himself?
Then Jesus said the least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he. What 
did he mean by that? How are all of us here greater than John?

Love,

Caroline

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Terry Clifton 
  To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
  
  Sent: Monday, May 16, 2005 7:53 AM
  Subject: Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] Street 
  Preaching
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 
  



I don't recall discussing "methods." Just a comparison of 
messages, perhaps. And I do not consider my way better than 
someone's elses.But a rebuke without love is nothing more 
than hate speech. I have seen the love in some of Ruben's 
writings. I just hope that his street ministry has that 
passion as its base. Drive by preaching is a waste of 
time. Its when you stay and struggle with those who are being 
saved via your ministry that the tide is turned. We have an 
equal responsibility to disciple those who are being saved. I 
don't hear much about that around here. 

Jd

===Your 
  comment may be true in some cases, but there are examples in the Bible that do 
  not line up with what you suggest. John, the Baptist rebuked with out 
  love and Jesus called John the greatest man that ever lived. Like Ruben, 
  he was a fore runner. He delivered the word and left the follow up to 
  others. An evangelist often preceeds a pastor. When 
  Paul came to Antioch, he preached for less than four months and was then run 
  out of town. He came back two years later to find a church that had 
  grown to the point that Paul was able to appoint elders from among the local 
  boys to oversee this church that had never had a pastor. You may be 
  right that the wimpy churches of today could not function for two years 
  with out someone to pat them on the head and pick up their toys, but real 
  Christians have done it. All they needed was the truth and the Holy 
  Spirit.

Re: [TruthTalk] TRUTH TALK Most Dangerous man in Canada




Canada is by far a more secular country than 
America. Less Christians, less bible believers etc etc. Yet it is a safer, 
kinder, gentler place. Does being a Christian nation automatically makes one 
more intolerant? South Africa was and is a Christian nation. At one point they 
had apartheid and much violence and injustice. Then society changed radically 
and the people in power ushered in national reconciliation and forgiveness. Both 
were expressions of Christian heritage and thought. 

My brother spent 5 years doing medical 
research in Boston and acquired a lot of American friends. They visit 
occasionally and here are just some samples of things that surprised 
them.
-seeing children of various races playing 
together in school yards and playgrounds
-the amount of mix couples
-actual phone books in phone 
booths
-very few ghettos and abandoned 
houses.

Does being a Christian nation automatically means 
we have a mindset that divides people into racial and economic categories? When 
I watch the Olympics, I see that the American team is one of the most racially 
mixed and that always makes me very happy. It is God's will that, as far as it 
is possible, we live at peace with one another.

Love,

Caroline

- Original Message - 

  From: 
  Terry Clifton 
  To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
  
  Sent: Monday, May 16, 2005 8:04 AM
  Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] TRUTH TALK Most 
  Dangerous man in Canada
  And I thought the USA was a Godless 
  country.Kevin Deegan wrote: 
  
Note: forwarded message attached.


Discover Yahoo!Stay in touch with email, IM, photo sharing  more. 
Check 
it out! 



  

  Subject: 
  CBC News on Bill Whatcott
  

  From: Bill 
  Whatcott [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  

  Date: Sun, 
  15 May 2005 23:32:46 -0600
  

  To: Bill 
  Whatcott [EMAIL PROTECTED]

  

  To: Bill 
  Whatcott [EMAIL PROTECTED]






  
  
Whatcott ordered to stop anti-gay flyers 
  
  
Last 
  Updated May 13 2005 09:02 AM CDTCBC News
  
REGINA  A Saskatchewan human rights tribunal 
  has ruled a former Regina man incited hatred against gays and lesbians 
  and has ordered him to pay more than $17,000. 
  


   

  
Bill WhatcottCBC file 
photoIn 2002, four people filed complaints against Bill Whatcott and 
  a group called the Christian Truth Activists. They objected to 
  pamphlets distributed in Regina and Saskatoon that referred to 
  homosexual men as "sodomites" and called same-sex relationships 
  "filthy". One of the flyers said: "Sodomites are 430 times more likely 
  to acquire AIDS and three times more likely to sexually abuse 
  children!" Brendan Wallace, one of the 
  complainants, testified in 2002 he was angry and fearful as a result 
  of receiving the material at his home. 
  


  
READ THE 
DECISION

  Saskatchewan Human Rights Commission 
Tribunal: Wallace et al vs. 
Whatcott(Note: CBC does not 
endorse and is not responsible for the content of external 
sites. Link will open in new window) 
"Initially he thought it was a 
  personal attack on his partner and himself," the tribunal decision 
  said. "He related some of his life experiences as a gay man and 
  wondered how others would react, including members of his own family." 
  Whatcott has been ordered to pay $17,500 to Wallace and the three 
  other complainants for hurt feelings and loss of dignity and 
  self-respect. And the tribunal has ruled that Whatcott and his group 
  can no longer distribute material that promotes hatred against people 
  because of their sexual orientation. On Thursday, Wallace said he was 
  pleased the tribunal agreed spreading this kind of material is wrong, 
  but he doubts Whatcott's group will stop. "Only two weeks ago, we 
  received some similar hate mail distributed to our house from the same 
  man and the same group," he said. Whatcott could not be reached for 
  comment.

Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] Street Preaching




This is where we part company in terms of theology. 
I don't believe God send people to eternal agony. And this is because love is 
strong, not wimpy. Love can take the tantrums of a 2 year old, the messiness of 
a toddler and the sins of a child without over reacting. God can handle all the 
things that are wrong in this world. He promised that everything will be 
restored in the end and so it shall be.

Love

Caroline

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Terry Clifton 
  To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
  
  Sent: Monday, May 16, 2005 8:11 AM
  Subject: Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] Street 
  Preaching
  Caroline Wong wrote: 
  



There was a new covenant after that. 


God is love. Now in light of His being love, 
tell me what His wrath and His hate is like? Hint: it's not the same as 
human hate and anger and it's definitely not the same as Satan's hate and 
anger.

Love,

CarolineGod's 
  wrath sends thousands of people to eternal agony every hour. It is what 
  they deserve for ignoring the sacrifice He made in their behalf. If you 
  don't like that, too bad, but that is the way that it is. A wimpy one 
  sided God is only love gospel just adds to that 
number.Terry

Re: [TruthTalk] Toronto Blessing Alpha




Then you wrestle with it and pray and talk with 
other people. You can also lay down for a while and pick up later. And you can 
accept that new experience and reasoning may change what you concluded 
yesterday.

Love,

Caroline

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Terry Clifton 
  To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
  
  Sent: Monday, May 16, 2005 8:13 AM
  Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Toronto Blessing 
   Alpha
  Caroline Wong wrote: 
  



John Wesley, when it came to deciding God's 
will on controversial issues, used 4 things to guide him. Scripture. 
Tradition. Reason. Experience. This later became known as the Wesleyan 
Quadrilateral.

In what way has Tradition, Reason and 
Experience influenced the people at TT? The RC believer come under similar 
influences.

Love,

Caroline==What 
  happens when reason and experience do not agree with 
scripture?

Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] Street Preaching




No, Ruben, God is always love. He is ontologically 
love meaning that His being is love. Why is He angry with sinners 24/7? What is 
His wrath like? Or His hate? That's what must be struggled through.

The bible is a story that has a beginning, a middle 
(complete with the climax of the crucifixion) and an ending. In a novel, even if 
a character stays the same, the situation in the beginning is very different 
from the ending. The same character may end up reacting differently even if he 
is unchanged during the whole story. Hebrews says that God spoke to us in 
various ways through his prophets but in the last days, he has spoken to us 
through His Son. Now that we know the ending, the beginning looks different to 
us. We know God is Trinity in the garden of Eden. We know He has been seeking 
the sons of Adam since then. 

Love,

Caroline



  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Ruben 
  Israel 
  To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
  
  Sent: Monday, May 16, 2005 8:30 AM
  Subject: Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] Street 
  Preaching
  
  
  God is love. Now in light of His 
  being love, tell me what His wrath and His hate is like? Hint: it's not the 
  same as human hate and anger and it's definitely not the same as Satan's hate 
  and anger.
  
  So He was not love 
  then?
  I guess that is your way of saying, 
  yes? Why not just take read for what it 
  says? God is angry (as the verse 
  clearly shows) everyday of every week of every year or as you asked 24/7? 
  We do have consistency here with Old 
  and New, how can someone read the book of Revelation and conclude God destroys 
  nations, people the earth? Let me 
  try this again, Can you 
  please read me Psalm 7:11 and tell me what that verse is saying?

Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] baptism

Thank you for correcting me. But bullying is hate. Thinking this is how the 
kingdom is advanced is deception.

Love,
Caroline
- Original Message - 
From: ShieldsFamily [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: Monday, May 16, 2005 8:31 AM
Subject: RE: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] baptism

Caroline, thank you for denigrating my capabilities of understanding.  Is 
it
possible that you might not understand something yourself? Have I promoted
SP's making racist or sexist remarks or bullying?  You are off the
subject and don't even know it.  MY point is that hate speech is not 
what
SP's do by warning sinners that what they are doing is wrong.  Hate speech
is what human beings do every day by slandering and gossiping, and no law 
in
Canada will stop that.  The anti-hate laws are created by sinful men to
censor free speech which is not politically correct.  It is of satan. Izzy

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Caroline Wong
Sent: Monday, May 16, 2005 8:04 AM
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Subject: Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] baptism
This may be beyond your understanding but people can be fired for racist 
or
sexist remarks at the office. People watch their mouths. Some bosses find
ways to be abusive without being racist or sexist but they have a high
turnover in staff. And I'm sure the Lord judges them whether they are
believers or not.

All the schools are proactive in stopping bullying because they know kids
lives can be ruined to the point where grade schoolers contemplate 
suicide.
Your family solved the problem by homeschooling. But bullying is a real
problem and one that is not tolerated.

Love,
Caroline
- Original Message - 
From: ShieldsFamily [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: Sunday, May 15, 2005 8:37 PM
Subject: RE: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] baptism

Boy, Canada would have a field day in any gradeschool classroom.  Or any
family with multiple children.  Do they have tapes of the conversations 
at
the office during lunch hour? Izzy

-Original Message-
And you can't ...speak hatefully to
your fellow human being.
--
Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may
know how you ought to answer every man.  (Colossians 4:6)
http://www.InnGlory.org
If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to
[EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed.  If you have a
friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to
[EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
--
Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may 
know
how you ought to answer every man.  (Colossians 4:6)
http://www.InnGlory.org

If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to
[EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed.  If you have a
friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to
[EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.

--
Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may 
know how you ought to answer every man.  (Colossians 4:6) 
http://www.InnGlory.org

If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed.  If you have a 
friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed. 
--
Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you 
ought to answer every man.  (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org
If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed.  If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.

Re: [TruthTalk] Street Preaching




Do you believe the gifts of prophecy, tongues and 
healing are still in effect today?

Love,

Caroline

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  ShieldsFamily 
  To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
  
  Sent: Monday, May 16, 2005 8:51 AM
  Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Street 
  Preaching
  
  
  Dont you think the 
  SPs are going from town to town? Is the Holy Spirit different today than it 
  was then? Why did Jesus say that greater works would we do than He did 
  if the Holy Spirit is less powerful now? So you have found another mistake in 
  the uninspired Bible? Jesus told his disciples He would come in His Kingdom 
  before they preached to all the cities in Israelwhich 
  He did. Maybe you missed it? Izzy
  
  
  
  
  
  From: 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  On Behalf Of Caroline 
  WongSent: Monday, May 16, 
  2005 8:08 AMTo: 
  TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSubject: Re: [TruthTalk] Street 
  Preaching
  
  
  The OT prophets were filled with 
  the Spirit for a purpose. Anyone who think they have the same mission and 
  anointing is most likely wrong. Jesus gave very specific instructions to how 
  his apostles were to preach to the people. They left a town if the town will 
  not accept the message. No need to continue to witness. 
  
  
  
  
  Jesus also said he'd return before 
  they've gone through all the towns of Israel. So, did we miss it? Did he 
  mean something else? Or did thedisciples miss a few towns here and 
  there? Israel ain't that big and they have 
  many teams.
  
  
  
  Love,
  
  
  
  Caroline
  

- Original Message - 


From: ShieldsFamily 


To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 


Sent: Sunday, 
May 15, 2005 8:52 PM

Subject: RE: 
[TruthTalk] Street Preaching


By your criteria 
were the OT prophets full of the fruit of the Spirit? Or were they not 
affable enough? Izzy





From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Caroline WongSent: Sunday, May 15, 2005 1:55 
AMTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSubject: Re: [TruthTalk] Street 
Preaching


It is possible as I posted the 
story of the atheist meeting the street preacher on Yonge St. and 
finding him affable and easy to talk to. That was the street preacher 
walking up and down while dressed as Jesus and carrying a cross. 




You know people by their fruit 
and this is the fruit of the spirit: love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, 
goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and 
self-control



Love,



Caroline

  
  - Original Message - 
  
  
  From: ShieldsFamily 
  
  
  To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
  
  
  Sent: 
  Saturday, May 14, 2005 7:33 PM
  
  Subject: RE: 
  [TruthTalk] Street Preaching
  
  
  Would you agree 
  that it is at least possible that the Holy Spirit can/does fill and guide 
  street preachers also? Izzy
  
  
  
  
  
  From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Caroline 
  WongSent: Saturday, May 
  14, 2005 7:18 AMTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSubject: Re: [TruthTalk] Street 
  Preaching
  
  
  The OT prophets were filled 
  with the Holy Spirit and commissioned by God. Each word that he spoke was 
  an inspiration of the Spirit. I'll leave ya'll from various camps to 
  decide for yourselves what the Street Preachers are filled with and who 
  commissioned them.
  
  
  
  - Original Message - 
  
  

From: Judy 
Taylor 

To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 


Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 


Sent: 
Saturday, May 14, 2005 1:47 AM

Subject: Re: 
[TruthTalk] Street Preaching



I think the same 
could be said for every one of the OT Prophets, that is, the ones 
through whom we received the

scriptures. 
They were all street preachers and the reaction of Israel before the dispersion 
was the equivalent of

this Baptist 
fellow. Psych case huh? 
jt



On Fri, 13 May 2005 22:59:37 -0500 "Caroline 
Wong" [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
writes:

  
  This was posted on the 
  discussion board of baptistboard.com by dh1948. 
  
  
  
  
  While visiting in Mobile recently, 
  my wife and I were downtown walking past the Bienville 
  Square. Walking around in the square was a 
  street preacher. He was screaming...and I mean screaming...to the top 
  of his lungs as he sauntered around

Re: [TruthTalk] TRUTH TALK Most Dangerous man in Canada




The PC crowd has no tolerance for hate literature. 
No ACLU in Canada, remember. Either the Evangelist will choose fines and jail 
(and jail is frequent in some countries like China) or he will find other ways 
to bring the gospel to the people. 

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Kevin 
  Deegan 
  To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
  
  Sent: Monday, May 16, 2005 9:10 AM
  Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] TRUTH TALK Most 
  Dangerous man in Canada
  
  $17,000 fine for handing out literature?
  The PC crowd is very INTOLERANT even of words!
  But to hear them talk that is a different story, they love to tell you 
  how open they are!Terry Clifton [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  wrote:
  And 
I thought the USA was a Godless country.Kevin Deegan wrote: 

  Note: forwarded message attached.
  
  
  Discover Yahoo!Stay in touch with email, IM, photo sharing  more. 
  Check 
  it out! 
  
  
  


  
Subject: 
CBC News on Bill Whatcott

  
From: 
Bill Whatcott [EMAIL PROTECTED]

  
Date: 
Sun, 15 May 2005 23:32:46 -0600

  
To: Bill 
Whatcott [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  


  
To: Bill 
Whatcott [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  
  

  
  
  


  Whatcott ordered to stop anti-gay flyers 


  Last 
Updated May 13 2005 09:02 AM CDTCBC News

  REGINA  A Saskatchewan human rights 
tribunal has ruled a former Regina man incited hatred against gays 
and lesbians and has ordered him to pay more than $17,000. 

  
  
 
  

  Bill WhatcottCBC file 
  photoIn 2002, four people filed complaints against Bill Whatcott 
and a group called the Christian Truth Activists. They 
objected to pamphlets distributed in Regina and Saskatoon that 
referred to homosexual men as "sodomites" and called same-sex 
relationships "filthy". One of the flyers said: "Sodomites are 430 
times more likely to acquire AIDS and three times more likely to 
sexually abuse children!" Brendan 
Wallace, one of the complainants, testified in 2002 he was angry and 
fearful as a result of receiving the material at his home. 

  
  

  READ THE 
  DECISION
  
Saskatchewan Human Rights Commission 
  Tribunal: Wallace et al vs. 
  Whatcott(Note: CBC does not 
  endorse and is not responsible for the content of external 
  sites. Link will open in new window) 
"Initially he thought it was 
a personal attack on his partner and himself," the tribunal decision 
said. "He related some of his life experiences as a gay man and 
wondered how others would react, including members of his own 
family." Whatcott has been ordered to pay $17,500 to Wallace and the 
three other complainants for hurt feelings and loss of dignity and 
self-respect. And the tribunal has ruled that Whatcott and his group 
can no longer distribute material that promotes hatred against 
people because of their sexual orientation. On Thursday, Wallace 
said he was pleased the tribunal agreed spreading this kind of 
material is wrong, but he doubts Whatcott's group will stop. "Only 
two weeks ago, we received some similar hate mail distributed to our 
house from the same man and the same group," he said. Whatcott could 
not be reached for comment. 

  
  __Do You 
  Yahoo!?Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
  http://mail.yahoo.com

Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] Street Preaching

There is a video on one of the links Kevin sent regarding SPs outside the 
LDS convention. One video showed the SP drowning out 6 singing missionaries 
and ignoring a man who was trying to engage him in conversation. Because the 
community is rather small, I'm sure you'll have no problem recognizing that 
man :-)

Love,
Caroline
- Original Message - 
From: David Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: Monday, May 16, 2005 9:25 AM
Subject: !Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] Street Preaching


Caroline Wong wrote:
It's not the preaching outside that I object to.
Oh, good, I am glad to hear that.
Caroline Wong wrote:
It's the yelling at people and insulting them that
I object to. This is not dialogue or apologetics;
it's bullying.  I can't imagine Jesus screaming whore
and harlot at Samaritan women.
What street preacher did you witness using such methods?  I would like to
know names, places, dates, and contact information like email addresses or
websites, etc.  I've preached with scores of street preachers across this
nation and I don't think I have ever witnessed such things.
Jesus offended many with his preaching and teaching.  The proof of this is
in how they reacted toward him and ultimately by the fact of his
crucifixion.  If you are walking as Jesus walked, people will be looking 
for
ways to malign you, misrepresent you, hurt you, and kill you, and if they
are not, either you have not started ministry yet, or something is wrong
with your ministry.  None of us are above our Master.

Caroline Wong wrote:
Something is very wrong here and as a Christian, I protest.
I do not agree with Mormon beliefs but I have enormous
respect for all those who endured the persecution with grace
and dignity.
You have respect for the Mormon persecution?  Is this what you are saying?
Joseph Smith as Mayor of the largest city in Illinois and Military General
of a State Militia ordered the destruction of printing presses that
criticized his polygamy.  In response to this gross abuse of political 
power
and sundry other things, he was arrested and a mob broke into the jail and
killed him after he had killed some of the angry mob with a gun that had
been smuggled in.  Are you going on record as saying that you are
sympathetic to his suffering persecution in this event?

Caroline Wong wrote:
As a Christian, I would like to apologize to all the
Mormons here who were screamed at and insulted.
Before you jump on the bandwagon here, you need to go down to Salt Lake 
City
and see what is going on for yourself.  I believe that your apology is 
based
upon your being too eager to believe gossip.

Caroline Wong wrote:
Not all Christians are like that and not all Street Preachers
are like that.  I hope you'll give us another chance to explain
our beliefs.
Sweet Caroline.  You are falling for the Mormon deception here.  Wake up.
The Mormons are not ignorant of your beliefs.  They have judged your 
beliefs
as false and hope for the opportunity for you to explain your beliefs only
so they can show you how they have a belief system that goes beyond yours
and has better answers.  The Scriptures teach us to reprove, rebuke and
exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine.  You had better get about the
business of doing that.  Those who love the truth will hear you, and those
who hate the truth will deride you.

Peace be with you.
David Miller.
--
Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may 
know how you ought to answer every man.  (Colossians 4:6) 
http://www.InnGlory.org

If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed.  If you have a 
friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed. 
--
Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you 
ought to answer every man.  (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org
If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed.  If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.

Re: [TruthTalk] Copying the Bible

CW says Biblical scholars were quite surprised when they foundearly manuscripts which did not contain lots of stuff likethe ending to Mark

Again you are Brewing New Age MOONSHINE!

ManuscriptS? How many? Must be a lot to throw out all those verses, 9-20!
The Evidence of the Greek: consisting of some eighteen (18) uncials and some six hundred (600) cursive MSS. (618) which contain the Gospel of Mark) there is not one which leaves out these twelve verses.

So out of the 620 extant manuscripts that contain the chapter we have 618 that contain 9-20 and 2 that do not Aleph B
Considering the character of aleph B, this would be akin to 618 witnesses testifying in court in total agreement against a defendant. But wait two more witnesses show. They both disagree with the 618 but also with each other!Witnesses that can not agree on the facts or each other, this is the nature of these hopelessly corrupt manuscripts.
The Westminster Dictionary of the Bible has this to say about Codex Vaticanus (B) on page 624 under article Versions. Quote: " It should be noted, however, that there is no prominent Biblical MS. in which there occur such gross cases of misspelling, faulty grammar, and omission, as in B." (Ref:H2)

"Aleph B D are three of the most scandalously corrupt copies extant: exhibit the most shamefully mutilated texts which are anywhere to be met with: have become, by whatever process (for their history is wholly unknown), the depositories of the largest amount of fabricated readings, ancient blunders, and intentional perversions of Truth which are discoverable in any known copies of the Word of God." Burgon, Revision Revised, p 16

Dean John William Burgon "The Revision Revised", 1881, p. 11; "Singular to relate Vaticanus and Aleph have within the last 20 years established a tyrannical ascendance over the imagination of the Critics, which can only be fitly spoken of as a blind superstition. It matters nothing that they are discovered on careful scrutiny to differ essentially, not only from ninety-nine out of a hundred of the whole body of extant MSS. besides, but even from one another. In the gospels alone B (Vaticanus) is found to omit at least 2877 words: to add 536, to substitute, 935; to transpose, 2098: to modify 1132 (in all 7578): - the corresponding figures for Aleph being 3455 omitted, 839 added, 1114 substitued, 2299 transposed, 1265 modified (in all 8972). And be it remembered that the omissions, additions, substitutions, transpositions, and modifications, are by no means the same in both. It is in fact easier to find two consecutive verses in which these two mss. differ the
one from the other, than two consecutive verses in which they entirely agree."
These two ms are the corrupt foundation that the new bibles are built on.

Evidence from Church fathers: http://www.lamblion.net/Articles/patristic_chart.htm Cited by many of the early church fathers such as Justin (165 AD), Tertullian (220 AD), Hippolytus (235 AD), Ambrose (397 AD) and Augustine (430 AD). Irenaeus (155 AD)
Evidence of the versions:
The SYRIAC. The oldest is the Syriac in its various forms: the " Peshitto " (cent. 2), and the "Curetonian Syriac"(cent. 3). Both are older than any Greek 315. in existence, and both contain these twelve verses. As also does the "Philoxenian"(cent. 5) and the "Jerusalem" (cent. 5) contain these twelve verses
The LATIN Versions: JEROME (A. D. 382), who had access to Greek MSS. older than any now extant, includes these twelve verses; but this Version (known as the Vulgate) was only a revision of the Vetus ITALA, which is believed to belong to cent. 2, and also contains these verses.
The GOTHIC Version (A. D. 350) contains them.
The EGYPTIAN Versions: the Memphitic (or Lower Egyptian, otherwise known as "COPTIC"), belonging to cent. 4 or 5, contains them; as does the "THE BMC "(Or Upper Egyptian, otherwise known as the "SAHIDIC"), belonging to cent. 3 contains them.
The ARMENIAN (cent. 5), the ETHIOPIC (cent. 4-7), and the GEOROIAN (cent. 6) also contains them and bear witness to the genuineness of these verses.
The evidence of the blank space: "To say that the Vatican Codex (B)... ends abruptly at the 8th verse of the 16th chapter [of Mark's Gospel], and that the customary subscription (kata Markon) follows, is true - but it is far from being the whole truth. It requires to be stated in addition that the scribe, whose plan is found to have been to begin every fresh book of the Bible at the top of the next ensuing column to that which contained the concluding words of the preceding book, has at the close of S. Mark's Gospel deviated from his else invariable practice. He has left in this place one column entirely vacant. It is the only column in the whole manuscript - a blank space abundantly sufficient to contain the twelve verses which he nevertheless withheld... The older MS from Codex B was copied must have infallibly contained the twelve verses in dispute. The copyist was instructed to leave

Re: [TruthTalk] Street Preaching

You never commented on whether the situation was handled as a christian ought.Caroline Wong [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


There is spiritual protection in leading a righteous life and there is protection in belonging to a godly community. When Paul advised the Corinthians to expel the immoral brother, it was so that he can experience the full consequences of his sin. In his follow up letter, 2 Cor, he told them to take him back in because he repented. 

We can't force people to love God or to obey Him. We can only let people choose. 

Love,

Caroline

- Original Message - 
From: Judy Taylor 
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
Sent: Monday, May 16, 2005 4:16 AM
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Street Preaching

I don't believe Jesus was at this time using Himself as the example Caroline; remember He was born in Israel under the Law andhis culture at the timetax collectors and pagans wereostracised and made outcastswhich is similar to what Paul counselled the Corinthian Church to do with the man whorefused to repent of his moral issues and accept correction. Paul advised turning him over toSatan for the destruction of the flesh with the hope that he would later repent and his soul wouldbe saved 

We've not learned this lesson and this is why we are not receiving a whole lot from God. Under the Old Covenant everyone was expected to follow the Law which is our friend rather than an enemy; God's Commandments arn't grievious... and yes forgiveness is paramount if we want to walk with God. jt

On Sun, 15 May 2005 22:59:14 -0500 "Caroline Wong" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

Step 4. and if your brother refuses to listen to the church, treat him as you would a pagan or a tax collector.

Step 5. and how did Jesus treat pagans and tax collectors? He did not expect them to be able to follow the law and be righteous. He loved them and ate with them. And they enjoyed his presence.

Then Peter asked Jesus, how many times am I suppose to forgive my brother? Seventy times seven according to some manuscripts. Then Jesus told a parable that tells us how much we've been forgiven and warns us against unforgiveness. Interesting sidebar: the moral of the story was not - you've been forgiven much so you better be good! but you've been forgiven much so you ought to forgive those who sinned against you.

From: Kevin Deegan 

IF Johnson is a Christian and that is a big if
Gal 6:1 Brethren, if a man be overtaken in a fault, ye which are spiritual, restore such an one in the spirit of meekness; considering thyself, lest thou also be tempted.
Matthew 18:15-18, Jesus outlines three steps to take in talking to your brother, in dealing with unrepentant sin.

STEP 1 GO TO YOUR BROTHER: Moreover if thy brother shall trespass against thee, go and tell him his fault between thee and him alone: if he shall hear thee, thou hast gained thy brother.
STEP 2 BRING OTHER BRO's WITH YOU: But if he will not hear thee, then take with thee one or two more, that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.
STEP 3 TAKE IT TO THE CHURCH: And if he shall neglect to hear them, tell it unto the church: but if he neglect to hear the church, let him be unto thee as an heathen man and a publican.
He ignored all three of these. What a example of a Man of God! Did any of these guys come to us as commanded by the scriptures? NO Instead of following the scriptures, and bringing it before the Church, Mr Johnson went right to the news Media and used our reputations as his springboard into a bigger more profitable ministry. A friend of mine interviewed on radio an associate of Mr Johnson. When asked if he tried to do MT 18, said he came down to the temple but could not find us. ROTFL what a liar. Maybe we are not as loud as some claim. And those 6 foot by 4 foot banners over our heads are not easy to spot!
SINCE MR Johnson and his friends ignore MT 18 I think it only fair for us to follow thru on what he did not. We have attempted to talk to them as outlined and should now treat him as directed "let him be unto thee as an heathen man and a publican."Caroline Wong [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:




From ChristianityToday.com http://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/2004/002/14.18.html
Looks like I'm not the only Christian who felt bad about what happened at the LDS conference

Winning Them SoftlyEvangelicals try to reach Mormons with respectand hard science.By John W. Kennedy | posted 01/16/2004
After years of ineffective and often acrimonious evangelism by various preachers and groups, a new coalition of evangelical clergy in Utah is attempting to treat Latter-day Saints (LDS) with respect.
Many orthodox Christians have denounced LDS theology throughout the church's history. Not surprisingly, leaders of the 11.7 million-member Salt Lake Citybased church have expressed both resentment and distrust.
At the LDS semiannual general conference in October, adherents of the Utah chapter of World Wide Street Preachers Fellowship

Re: [TruthTalk] Copying the Bible

I wouldn't add words but some copyists did. One of your president, Thomas 
Jefferson, separated out what he considered religious dogma and the 
supernatural from the ethical teachings of the bible to make his own bible. 
Other people added words and phrases to incorporate their dogma into the 
work. That's just how humans are.

By the way, it was not the Codex Sinaiticus that von Tischendorf found in 
the garbage can, not that it's all that important. For the full history of 
the Codex, check out this site: 
http://www.absoluteastronomy.com/encyclopedia/C/Co/Codex_Sinaiticus.htm

Love,
Caroline
- Original Message - 
From: David Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: Monday, May 16, 2005 10:16 AM
Subject: [TruthTalk] Copying the Bible


*Note Subject Change
Subject was Rikk Watts on Genesis 1 and is now Copying the Bible
Caroline Wong wrote:
Both errors are likely. People could deliberately
add words to bolster the text and make it sound
better.
Wait just one minute, please.  If you were copying the Scriptures, you 
would
try real hard to copy it accurately, would you not?  Would *YOU* truly add
words to bolster the text and make it sound better?  I'm talking about
*YOU*.  Think about this carefully.  I would venture to say that if you 
were
copying the Holy Scriptures, you would not add any words at all to make it
sound better.  I know that I would not.

Caroline Wong wrote:
In fact, Christians have been known to write whole
books and letters and attribute them to Paul or John
or some other Apostle. There was a lot of controversy
and uncertainty so adding words make things more plain.
You are confusing outright forgery with monks copying the sacred text. 
When
scribes were copying texts, they were very careful NOT to add words and 
NOT
to subtract words.  With this underlying paradigm at work here, which
mistake is most likely to take place?  Would the addition of words or the
omission of words be the most likely to occur if your modus operandi was
trying to copy the text exactly and not add or subtract words?  I think 
the
omission of words would be the most likely mistake.

Caroline Wong wrote:
Biblical scholars were quite surprised when they found
early manuscripts which did not contain lots of stuff like
the ending to Mark or the story in John about the woman
caught in adultery. Mark can be explained by saying the
manuscript lost its ending but how do we explain John :-)
We don't. We just put a note and say it's not in the early
manuscripts.
You give up on explanations way too quickly!  It could be that the guy 
doing
the copying was called to lunch by his buddy and when he came back, he
picked up his copying efforts in the wrong place.  It also could be that 
the
part of the text he was copying from was damaged.  Maybe he spilled his
coffee on it, and so he planned to come back later when he could get an
undamaged copy.  I haven't examined these manuscripts myself directly, but 
I
have read reports of those who have that passages like Mark 16 actually 
have
a large blank space where the omitted passage would fit.  It looks like
indeed the copyist planned to come back later and fill it in.  This 
suggests
to me that the copy he was working from was probably damaged in that 
place.

Caroline Wong wrote:
If copyists lost words as they copied, the later manuscripts
would have less words than the early ones.
Now you are thinking, but your assumption here is that all later 
manuscripts
were copied from all earlier ones.  This is not true.  Many times copies
were made that became a dead end.  In other words, no further copies were
made from them.  I think this is the case with these two older 
manuscripts.
We need to keep this fact of TWO manuscripts in mind because you talk 
about
older manuscripts and some people might get the idea that there are a 
bunch
of them.  The truth is that we are talking about TWO manuscripts which
differ significantly from about 5,000 manuscripts that have a more recent
date.  The big question is how this could be, which is why Westcott and 
Hort
came up with their Syrian recension theory.  They postulated that these
older Egyptian manuscripts were right but the majority of other 
manuscripts
were wrong because there was a big mistake made early on from which all
these other copies were made.  It makes much more sense that these two 
older
manuscripts in Egypt are the ones which were mistaken, especially when you
consider that the Sinaiticus text was found in a trash can at Saint
Katherine's monastery.  (Incidentally, for trivia's sake, I would like to
mention that I have visited this monastery and spent the night there.)
Furthermore, the text was in all capital letters with no spaces between 
the
words.  Was this perhaps some fun experiment some monk was doing because 
of
his boredom with copying texts all day long?  For all we know, it was a
teenager given the task as homework, and he didn't even want to be doing 
it.
Maybe he was playing

Re: [TruthTalk] Free Speech

I believe we can state our opinions without cross the line to hate. And I 
believe that persecution makes Christians and Christianity stronger. What do 
we gain if we suffer for doing wrong? I welcome greater persecution for all 
of us North Americans. Being the top dog has ruined us.

Love,
Caroline
- Original Message - 
From: David Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: Monday, May 16, 2005 10:30 AM
Subject: [TruthTalk] Free Speech

*Note Subject Change
Subject was baptism and is now Free Speech
Caroline Wong wrote:
Canada understands that free speech is meant to serve
a democratic society.  You can't yell fire in a crowded
theatre. You can't do false advertising. You can't claim
credentials you don't have. You can't lie while under oath
in a court room. And you can't slander, libel, intimidate,
threaten or speak hatefully to your fellow human being.
We put a high value on people. Americans put high value
on principles and rights.
We have the same restrictions on speech here in this country, and I agree
with them.  All this is contained in the commandment, thou shalt not bear
false witness.
I very much disagree, however, with Canada's ruling that Romans 1 and
Leviticus 20:13 exposes homosexuals to hatred.  What about you?  Do you
agree or disagree with the idea that Christians who would publish 
references
to these verses in newspapers should be prosecuted and found guilty of 
human
rights violations?

Peace be with you.
David Miller.
--
Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may 
know how you ought to answer every man.  (Colossians 4:6) 
http://www.InnGlory.org

If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed.  If you have a 
friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed. 
--
Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you 
ought to answer every man.  (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org
If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed.  If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.

Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] Street Preaching

You play loose  wild with your words!
Hopefully this does not extend to other areas.
What was SCREAMING has now becomeSHOUTING same words same meaning?
SCREAM: To speak or write in a heated hysterical manner.
SHOUT: Utter in a loud voice
Why did you change them?
When describing use emotional term when backpeddaling tone it down.
Are you caught up in primal therapy?
How did Jesus address large crowds without lifting his voice?

I do not use a amplifier I prefer a strong natural voice.Caroline Wong [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


My dear Kevin, I'm sorry if I had accused you of shouting and you weren't. Perhaps you never raised your voice but went around as quiet as a church mouse and those horrid sinners, perverts, fornicators jumped all over you for no reason at all. Perhaps your voice is never heard more than 25 ft away and every man seeking eternal life must come close to you to hear words of truth. 

If that is so, then I do owe you an apology. I was never an eye witness to your preaching and only know you by what you post here and by what I read of other people's accounts. Would Reuben or David or anyone else at the LDS convention like to testify as to whether shouting took place? Is shouting the norm for Street Preachers or do they just quietly hand out tracts and await an invitation to engage in conversation? If one met up with 10 SPs, how many are shouters and how many are not?

Oh wait, those are dumb questions. I just remembered readingthat Street Preachers carry bullhorns. So you weren't shouting after all. And I do apologize for accusing you of shouting. In the future, I should just say "saying things that your listeners perceived as mean, belittling, insulting and enraging in a mechanically amplified voice in a public arena."which I'll shorten to "street preaching" for future reference. But you weren't shouting.

- Original Message - 

From: Kevin Deegan 
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
Sent: Monday, May 16, 2005 7:16 AM
Subject: Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] Street Preaching

Right and of course it is not possible that we are not shouting (you False witness) and that the sinners are angry because they are not ready to hear God's word but came to an event to sin with both hands earnestly? Caroline Wong [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 




Paul ran into trouble for the same reason JD did. He was saying something the people weren't prepared to hear. When you do that, you don't have to shout to get people angry. Paul told the Jews that there is a new covenant, and a new way to salvation which included the Gentiles. JD merely believes God is love and that He loves sinners while you believe He is angry with sinners 24/7

- Original Message - 
From: Kevin Deegan 
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
Sent: Sunday, May 15, 2005 8:47 PM
Subject: Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] Street Preaching

Does the Book of Acts have an ending or should that style of preaching continue today?

If we are to preach the NT "love gospel" why did paul run into so much trouble?

Acts 13:45 But when the Jews saw the multitudes, they were filled with envy, and spake against those things which were spoken by Paul, contradicting and blaspheming.13:50 But the Jews stirred up the devout and honourable women, and the chief men of the city, and raised persecution against Paul and Barnabas, and expelled them out of their coasts.
(LDS emulate Jews)
14:5 And when there was an assault made both of the Gentiles, and also of the Jews with their rulers, to use them despitefully, and to stone them,
14:19 And there came thither certain Jews from Antioch and Iconium, who persuaded the people, and having stoned Paul, drew him out of the city, supposing he had been dead.
16:23 And when they had laid many stripes upon them, they cast them into prison, charging the jailor to keep them safely
18:6 And when they opposed themselves, and blasphemed
19:23 And the same time there arose no small stir about that way.
19;32 Some therefore cried one thing, and some another: for the assembly was confused
20:23 Save that the Holy Ghost witnesseth in every city, saying that bonds and afflictions abide me.
22:22-24 And they gave him audience unto this word, and then lifted up their voices, and said, Away with such a fellow from the earth: for it is not fit that he should live. And as they cried out, and cast off their clothes, and threw dust into the air The chief captain commanded him to be brought into the castle, and bade that he should be examined by scourging
23:2 And the high priest Ananias commanded them that stood by him to smite him on the mouth.
23:10 And when there arose a great dissension, the chief captain, fearing lest Paul should have been pulled in pieces of them, commanded the soldiers to go down, and to take him by force from among them, and to bring him into the castle.
23:12 And when it was day, certain of the Jews banded together, and bound themselves under a curse, saying that they would neither eat nor drink till they had killed Paul.
24:5-6 For we

Re: [TruthTalk] Toronto Blessing Alpha


CW says Kevin, you understand that sinners can not do good. Why do you expect those who do not know God or the bible to accept biblical teaching and to stop sinning? 
"Perhaps they will reform the church."Caroline Wong [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:




I agree with you that we can not change ourselves despite what modernity, philosophy, positive thinking and philosophy say. It is the Holy Spirit that transforms us and there is no limit to what He can do. 

Kevin, you understand that sinners can not do good. Why do you expect those who do not know God or the bible to accept biblical teaching and to stop sinning? 


- Original Message - 

From: Kevin Deegan 
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
Sent: Monday, May 16, 2005 6:36 AM
Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Toronto Blessing  Alpha


Jer 13:23 Can the Ethiopian change his skin, or the leopard his spots? then may ye also do good, that are accustomed to do evil. 







There does seem to be a renaissance of Catholics reading and studying the bible. Some are even moving beyond prescribed prayer. Not many but it's a start. Perhaps they will reform the church.



Love,



Caroline
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Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] Street Preaching

Why would you ask. You have posted extensively on it, and now you want toKNOW how I preach? Need more gossip I mean prayer requests for the Brethren?Perhaps my english was not clear, but forget it.Caroline Wong [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

I ask because it is possible you're totally unaware of how you come across to people. 

- Original Message - 
From: Kevin Deegan 
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
Sent: Monday, May 16, 2005 7:09 AM
Subject: Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] Street Preaching

CW says Kevin, do you preach the same way you post here?
Why would you ask. You have posted extensively on it, and now you want toKNOW how I preach? Need more gossip I mean prayer requests for the Brethren?
Don't you think you Mr Johson should haveobeyed Matt 18 and not skipped step 1,2,3 and gone direct to the News media?
Do you think christians that have a problem with Street Preaching should have gossip sessions with the brethren but not discuss their concerns with the SP? MT 18
Do you think the brethren should upon hearing that a SP did such and such go right to the brethren to repeat the story? Do you think it is possible that some Lost would have no problem creating lies to perpetuate? Do you think it possible that some lostwould devise Devices, and use these to divide and conquer? ( that is their design separate the brethren)Wheres the UNITY? Why is it that Christians will believe a story from a Mormon, agospel hater, a shop keeper concerned over mamon, even a satanist,and not take it to the offender (SP) when they have the opportunity?But they will take it direct to the Brethren? Do you think it is possible that some lost may actually hate the gospel? some may beactual enemies of the gospel?
Christianity Today put my picture in that article. Did they even talk to any of us whoose reputation they dragged thru the mud, for our side of the story? The story must be gospel it is in print you know. 
Just wondering...Caroline Wong [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

His code applies to you... and me. To all sinners. 

Kevin, do you preach the same way you post here?

- Original Message - 
From: Kevin Deegan 
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
Sent: Sunday, May 15, 2005 7:57 PM
Subject: Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] Street Preaching

I incorporate the message of love in my ministry becau se of the information I find in the letters of the apostles and prophets. The commands that bear repeating in I John are "love God" and "love the brethren."
Does your code also apply if you were preaching to a bunch of SODOMites?
What would you preach seems like a popular message "God loves you just the way you are?"[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

I personally have reason to respect Ruben Israel. My comments are not personal. But --- "different strokesfor different folks" is my response to Ruben's defense. What is in evidence, I suppose, is thatpreaching (including "street preaching")is an acceptable vehicle for spreading the message of hope. Except for the Noah example, what we have is a series of examplesof how the message was presented to the children of God --- the Jews.We are repeatedly reminded that among these people of God, few would respond. Perhaps Heb 6:4-6 explains why.No doubt, preaching the message of God's love apart from His disappointment (His wrath) gives one something less than the full picture. I
 incorporate the message of love in my ministry becau se of the information I find in the letters of the apostles and prophets. The commands that bear repeating in I John are "love God" and "love the brethren." We are reminded that " no one has seen God at any time -- but if we love one another, God abides in us" I J 4:12. In fact, "if God loved us, we should love others" ( I J 4:11). I include the radical notion of love in my ministry because I see it in the words of Paul -- "I become all things to all men so that by all means I might save some." The fulfillment of the Law gave us liberty -- but Paul reminds us that we are constrained by -- aah love !! " The gospel of John presents the very reason for the Incarnation --
 "Because God loved the world " The Fatherhood of God is an exclusive New Testament consideration. At the centreof Fatherhood is this thing we seek to exclude - love. We dare not forget the very essence of God -- expressed in the statement "God is love." The letters of the apostles are full of considerate dialogue and loving guidance.Paul reminds us that knowledge has its limitations, but if we love, we are known by God.  Where harsh straight talk may bethe way to the Jewish heart, it certainly was not the norm in other venues.  I include love in my ministry because people need to know about it. Salute.

JD
-Original Message-From: Ruben Israel [EMAIL PROTECTED]To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSent: Sun, 15 May 2005 14:46:34 -0700Subject: Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] Street Preaching

To those that wish to comment on "street preaching," take note:Noah was called a

Re: [TruthTalk] Carolyn asks: Did we miss it? Was: Street Preaching

Yikes, Perry, there are dozens of interpretations what Jesus meant with 
people arguing grammar, semantics and what the phrase the Son of Man means 
in this chapter. Personally, I don't know. All I know is that I don't 
believe the Liberal view which says Jesus thought the end times were near 
but he really didn't know and I'm not keen on the Preterists view. I kind of 
side with people like Izzy who feels He is referring to either His 
resurrection when his disciples saw Him in His glorified body or He was 
referring to the Holy Spirit. There are problems with either interpretation.

Love,
Caroline
- Original Message - 
From: Charles Perry Locke [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: Monday, May 16, 2005 10:53 AM
Subject: [TruthTalk] Carolyn asks: Did we miss it? Was: Street Preaching


From: Caroline Wong [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Street Preaching
Date: Mon, 16 May 2005 09:07:49 -0500
Jesus also said he'd return before they've gone through all the towns of 
Israel. So, did we miss it?
Carolyn, I would love to hear your answer to the question you posed above. 
Can you provide a little rationale along with your answer, too, instead of 
a simple yes or no? This is an area in which I have an interest and on 
which I like to hear different viewpoints.

If anyone else would like to answer this question, please do. Each of us 
probably has a unique viewpoint on this issue. Yes, you mormon boys are 
invited, too.

Perry
--
Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may 
know how you ought to answer every man.  (Colossians 4:6) 
http://www.InnGlory.org

If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to 
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[EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed. 
--
Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you 
ought to answer every man.  (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org
If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed.  If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.

Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] baptism




It's like child abuse. Society probably can't stop 
all abuse but teaching kids what is acceptable touch and what is not, who to 
tell and what to do helps. It also helps to tell people this behaviour will not 
be tolerated in this society. Can we stop all bullying? Probably not. But kids 
are more likely to tell teachers if they are being bullied, bystanders are more 
likely to intervene and bullies know this is not acceptable 
behaviour.


  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Kevin 
  Deegan 
  To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
  
  Sent: Monday, May 16, 2005 10:56 AM
  Subject: Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] 
  baptism
  
  CW All the schools are proactive in stopping bullying 
  because they know kids lives can be ruined to the point where grade 
  schoolers contemplate suicide.
  So Canadian Culture has successfully done what no other culture in the 
  history of man has done? Do you have kids?
  Caroline Wong [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  wrote:
  This 
may be beyond your understanding but people can be fired for racist or 
sexist remarks at the office. People watch their mouths. Some bosses 
find ways to be abusive without being racist or sexist but they have a 
high turnover in staff. And I'm sure the Lord judges them whether they 
are believers or not.All the schools are proactive in stopping 
bullying because they know kids lives can be ruined to the point where 
grade schoolers contemplate suicide. Your family solved the problem by 
homeschooling. But bullying is a real problem and one that is not 
tolerated.Love,Caroline- Original Message - 
From: "ShieldsFamily" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>To: 
Sent: Sunday, May 15, 2005 8:37 
PMSubject: RE: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] baptism Boy, Canada 
would have a field day in any gradeschool classroom. Or any family 
with multiple children. Do they have tapes of the conversations at 
the office during lunch hour? Izzy -Original 
Message- And you can't ...speak hatefully to your fellow 
human being. -- "Let your speech be 
always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may  know how you 
ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6)  
http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts 
from this list, send an email to  [EMAIL PROTECTED] and 
you will be unsubscribed. If you have a  friend who wants to join, 
tell him to send an e-mail to  [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he 
will be subscribed. --"Let your speech be always with 
grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every 
man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.orgIf you do not want to 
receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell 
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Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] Street Preaching

Now how to you reconcile your understanding of His wrath with Him being 
love? Note the bible does not say God is wrath or God is judge.

Love,
Caroline
- Original Message - 
From: David Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: Monday, May 16, 2005 11:11 AM
Subject: Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] Street Preaching

Caroline Wong wrote:
God is love. Now in light of His being love,
tell me what His wrath and His hate is like?
How about we start with the following description of God's wrath:
Revelation 16:1-21
(1) And I heard a great voice out of the temple saying to the seven 
angels,
Go your ways, and pour out the vials of the wrath of God upon the earth.
(2) And the first went, and poured out his vial upon the earth; and there
fell a noisome and grievous sore upon the men which had the mark of the
beast, and upon them which worshipped his image.
(3) And the second angel poured out his vial upon the sea; and it became 
as
the blood of a dead man: and every living soul died in the sea.
(4) And the third angel poured out his vial upon the rivers and fountains 
of
waters; and they became blood.
(5) And I heard the angel of the waters say, Thou art righteous, O Lord,
which art, and wast, and shalt be, because thou hast judged thus.
(6) For they have shed the blood of saints and prophets, and thou hast 
given
them blood to drink; for they are worthy.
(7) And I heard another out of the altar say, Even so, Lord God Almighty,
true and righteous are thy judgments.
(8) And the fourth angel poured out his vial upon the sun; and power was
given unto him to scorch men with fire.
(9) And men were scorched with great heat, and blasphemed the name of God,
which hath power over these plagues: and they repented not to give him
glory.
(10) And the fifth angel poured out his vial upon the seat of the beast; 
and
his kingdom was full of darkness; and they gnawed their tongues for pain,
(11) And blasphemed the God of heaven because of their pains and their
sores, and repented not of their deeds.
(12) And the sixth angel poured out his vial upon the great river 
Euphrates;
and the water thereof was dried up, that the way of the kings of the east
might be prepared.
(13) And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs come out of the mouth of 
the
dragon, and out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the 
false
prophet.
(14) For they are the spirits of devils, working miracles, which go forth
unto the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the
battle of that great day of God Almighty.
(15) Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth 
his
garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame.
(16) And he gathered them together into a place called in the Hebrew 
tongue
Armageddon.
(17) And the seventh angel poured out his vial into the air; and there 
came
a great voice out of the temple of heaven, from the throne, saying, It is
done.
(18) And there were voices, and thunders, and lightnings; and there was a
great earthquake, such as was not since men were upon the earth, so mighty
an earthquake, and so great.
(19) And the great city was divided into three parts, and the cities of 
the
nations fell: and great Babylon came in remembrance before God, to give 
unto
her the cup of the wine of the fierceness of his wrath.
(20) And every island fled away, and the mountains were not found.
(21) And there fell upon men a great hail out of heaven, every stone about
the weight of a talent: and men blasphemed God because of the plague of 
the
hail; for the plague thereof was exceeding great.

Do you find yourself in agreement with this description of God's wrath? 
Do
you say, you are righteous Lord for judging this way or are you troubled
by this description of God?  Do you try to find ways to explain it away?

Peace be with you.
David Miller.
--
Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may 
know how you ought to answer every man.  (Colossians 4:6) 
http://www.InnGlory.org

If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed.  If you have a 
friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed. 
--
Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you 
ought to answer every man.  (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org
If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed.  If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.

Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] Street Preaching

We are Christians, John was not, he was the friend of the bridegroom a OT saint a Jew in a different kingdom.He that hath the bride is the bridegroom: but the friend of the bridegroom, which standeth and heareth him, rejoiceth greatly because of the bridegroom's voice: this my joy therefore is fulfilled.Caroline Wong [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:




Jesus said no one born of women is greater than John the Baptist. Does that include Jesus himself?
Then Jesus said the least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he. What did he mean by that? How are all of us here greater than John?

Love,

Caroline

- Original Message - 
From: Terry Clifton 
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
Sent: Monday, May 16, 2005 7:53 AM
Subject: Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] Street Preaching
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 




I don't recall discussing "methods." Just a comparison of messages, perhaps. And I do not consider my way better than someone's elses.But a rebuke without love is nothing more than hate speech. I have seen the love in some of Ruben's writings. I just hope that his street ministry has that passion as its base. Drive by preaching is a waste of time. Its when you stay and struggle with those who are being saved via your ministry that the tide is turned. We have an equal responsibility to disciple those who are being saved. I don't hear much about that around here. 

Jd

===Your comment may be true in some cases, but there are examples in the Bible that do not line up with what you suggest. John, the Baptist rebuked with out love and Jesus called John the greatest man that ever lived. Like Ruben, he was a fore runner. He delivered the word and left the follow up to others. An evangelist often preceeds a pastor. When Paul came to Antioch, he preached for less than four months and was then run out of town. He came back two years later to find a church that had grown to the point that Paul was able to appoint elders from among the local boys to oversee this church that had never had a pastor. You may be right that the wimpy churches of today could not function for two years with out someone to pat them on the head and pick up their toys, but real Christians have done
 it. All they needed was the truth and the Holy Spirit. __Do You Yahoo!?Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com

Re: [TruthTalk] Street Preaching

The modern versions were based on the early copies especially the Codes 
Sinaiticus.

Love,
Caroline
- Original Message - 
From: David Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: Monday, May 16, 2005 1:46 PM
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Street Preaching

Caroline Wong wrote:
Jesus gave very specific instructions to how his apostles
were to preach to the people. They left a town if the town
will not accept the message. No need to continue to witness.
These were specific instructions regarding a specific ministry trip. 
Later,
before Jesus even died, he gave them different instructions, teaching them
to stay in Jerusalem.  Jerusalem did not receive their message, yet they
stayed there.  (See Luke 22:35-36 for how Jesus made a transition in
ministry instructions to his apostles.)

Peace be with you.
David Miller.
--
Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may 
know how you ought to answer every man.  (Colossians 4:6) 
http://www.InnGlory.org

If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed.  If you have a 
friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed. 
--
Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you 
ought to answer every man.  (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org
If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed.  If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.

Re: [TruthTalk] TRUTH TALK Most Dangerous man in Canada

CW seeing children of various races playing together in school yards and playgrounds
Isn't that against the law in America?
Caroline Wong [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


Canada is by far a more secular country than America. Less Christians, less bible believers etc etc. Yet it is a safer, kinder, gentler place. Does being a Christian nation automatically makes one more intolerant? South Africa was and is a Christian nation. At one point they had apartheid and much violence and injustice. Then society changed radically and the people in power ushered in national reconciliation and forgiveness. Both were expressions of Christian heritage and thought. 

My brother spent 5 years doing medical research in Boston and acquired a lot of American friends. They visit occasionally and here are just some samples of things that surprised them.
-seeing children of various races playing together in school yards and playgrounds
-the amount of mix couples
-actual phone books in phone booths
-very few ghettos and abandoned houses.

Does being a Christian nation automatically means we have a mindset that divides people into racial and economic categories? When I watch the Olympics, I see that the American team is one of the most racially mixed and that always makes me very happy. It is God's will that, as far as it is possible, we live at peace with one another.

Love,

Caroline

- Original Message - 

From: Terry Clifton 
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
Sent: Monday, May 16, 2005 8:04 AM
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] TRUTH TALK Most Dangerous man in Canada
And I thought the USA was a Godless country.Kevin Deegan wrote: 

Note: forwarded message attached.


Discover Yahoo!Stay in touch with email, IM, photo sharing  more. Check it out! 






Subject: CBC News on Bill Whatcott


From: Bill Whatcott [EMAIL PROTECTED]


Date: Sun, 15 May 2005 23:32:46 -0600


To: Bill Whatcott [EMAIL PROTECTED]




To: Bill Whatcott [EMAIL PROTECTED]








Whatcott ordered to stop anti-gay flyers 

Last Updated May 13 2005 09:02 AM CDTCBC News

REGINA  A Saskatchewan human rights tribunal has ruled a former Regina man incited hatred against gays and lesbians and has ordered him to pay more than $17,000. 



 


Bill WhatcottCBC file photoIn 2002, four people filed complaints against Bill Whatcott and a group called the Christian Truth Activists. They objected to pamphlets distributed in Regina and Saskatoon that referred to homosexual men as "sodomites" and called same-sex relationships "filthy". One of the flyers said: "Sodomites are 430 times more likely to acquire AIDS and three times more likely to sexually abuse children!" Brendan Wallace, one of the complainants, testified in 2002 he was angry and fearful as a result of receiving the material at his home. 




READ THE DECISION

Saskatchewan Human Rights Commission Tribunal: Wallace et al vs. Whatcott(Note: CBC does not endorse and is not responsible for the content of external sites. Link will open in new window) "Initially he thought it was a personal attack on his partner and himself," the tribunal decision said. "He related some of his life experiences as a gay man and wondered how others would react, including members of his own family." Whatcott has been ordered to pay $17,500 to Wallace and the three other complainants for hurt feelings and loss of dignity and self-respect. And the tribunal has ruled that Whatcott and his group can no longer distribute material that promotes hatred against people because of their sexual orientation. On Thursday, Wallace said he was
 pleased the tribunal agreed spreading this kind of material is wrong, but he doubts Whatcott's group will stop. "Only two weeks ago, we received some similar hate mail distributed to our house from the same man and the same group," he said. Whatcott could not be reached for comment. 

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Re: [TruthTalk] Copying the Bible




Kevin, can you communicate with a person you 
disagree with without belittling them? Your thoughts would have been more 
readily received. 

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Kevin 
  Deegan 
  To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
  
  Sent: Monday, May 16, 2005 9:44 PM
  Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Copying the 
  Bible
  
  CW says Biblical scholars were quite surprised when they 
  foundearly manuscripts which did not contain lots of stuff likethe 
  ending to Mark 
  
  Again you are Brewing New Age MOONSHINE!
  
  ManuscriptS? How many? Must be a lot to throw out all those verses, 
  9-20!
  The Evidence of the Greek: consisting of some eighteen (18) 
  uncials and some six hundred (600) cursive MSS. (618) which contain the 
  Gospel of Mark) there is not one which leaves out these 
  twelve verses.
  
  So out of the 620 extant manuscripts that contain the chapter we 
  have 618 that contain 9-20 and 2 that do not Aleph  B
  Considering the character of aleph  B, this would be akin to 618 
  witnesses testifying in court in total agreement against a defendant. But wait 
  two more witnesses show. They both disagree with the 618 but also with each 
  other!Witnesses that can not agree on the facts or each other, this is 
  the nature of these hopelessly corrupt manuscripts.
  The Westminster Dictionary of the Bible has this 
  to say about Codex Vaticanus (B) on page 624 under article Versions. Quote: " 
  It should be noted, however, that there is no prominent Biblical MS. 
  in which there occur such gross cases of misspelling, faulty grammar, and 
  omission, as in B." (Ref:H2) 
  
  "Aleph B D are three of the most scandalously corrupt copies 
  extant: exhibit the most shamefully mutilated texts 
  which are anywhere to be met with: have become, by whatever process (for their 
  history is wholly unknown), the depositories of the largest amount of 
  fabricated readings, ancient blunders, and intentional perversions of Truth 
  which are discoverable in any known copies of the Word of God." Burgon, 
  Revision Revised, p 16
  
  Dean John William Burgon "The Revision Revised", 1881, p. 11; "Singular to 
  relate Vaticanus and Aleph have within the last 20 years established a 
  tyrannical ascendance over the imagination of the Critics, which can 
  only be fitly spoken of as a blind superstition. It matters nothing 
  that they are discovered on careful scrutiny to differ essentially, not only 
  from ninety-nine out of a hundred of the whole body of extant MSS. besides, 
  but even from one another. In the gospels alone B (Vaticanus) is found to omit 
  at least 2877 words: to add 536, to substitute, 935; to transpose, 2098: to 
  modify 1132 (in all 7578): - the corresponding figures for Aleph being 3455 
  omitted, 839 added, 1114 substitued, 2299 transposed, 1265 modified (in all 
  8972). And be it remembered that the omissions, additions, substitutions, 
  transpositions, and modifications, are by no means the same in both. 
  It is in fact easier to find two consecutive verses in which these two 
  mss. differ the one from the other, than two consecutive verses in which they 
  entirely agree." 
  These two ms are the corrupt foundation that the new bibles are built 
  on.
  
  Evidence from Church fathers: 
  http://www.lamblion.net/Articles/patristic_chart.htm Cited by many of the 
  early church fathers such as Justin (165 AD), Tertullian (220 AD), Hippolytus 
  (235 AD), Ambrose (397 AD) and Augustine (430 AD). Irenaeus (155 AD)
  Evidence of the versions:
  The SYRIAC. The oldest is the Syriac in its various forms: the " Peshitto " 
  (cent. 2), and the "Curetonian Syriac"(cent. 3). Both are older than any Greek 
  315. in existence, and both contain these twelve verses. As also does 
  the "Philoxenian"(cent. 5) and the "Jerusalem" (cent. 5) contain these 
  twelve verses
  The LATIN Versions: JEROME (A. D. 382), who had access to Greek MSS. older 
  than any now extant, includes these twelve verses; but this Version 
  (known as the Vulgate) was only a revision of the Vetus ITALA, which is 
  believed to belong to cent. 2, and also contains these verses. 
  The GOTHIC Version (A. D. 350) contains them. 
  The EGYPTIAN Versions: the Memphitic (or Lower Egyptian, otherwise known as 
  "COPTIC"), belonging to cent. 4 or 5, contains them; as does the "THE 
  BMC "(Or Upper Egyptian, otherwise known as the "SAHIDIC"), belonging to cent. 
  3 contains them. 
  The ARMENIAN (cent. 5), the ETHIOPIC (cent. 4-7), and the GEOROIAN (cent. 
  6) also contains them and bear witness to the genuineness of these 
  verses.
  The evidence of the blank space: "To say that the Vatican Codex (B)... 
  ends abruptly at the 8th verse of the 16th chapter [of Mark's Gospel], and 
  that the customary subscription (kata Markon) follows, is true - but it is far 
  from being the whole truth. It requires to be stated in addition that the 
  scribe, whose plan is found to have been to begin every fresh

Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] Street Preaching

CWThat's what must be struggled through.

It is only a struggle when you are always forcing your feelings on the plain teaching of the text. Caroline Wong [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:




No, Ruben, God is always love. He is ontologically love meaning that His being is love. Why is He angry with sinners 24/7? What is His wrath like? Or His hate? That's what must be struggled through.

The bible is a story that has a beginning, a middle (complete with the climax of the crucifixion) and an ending. In a novel, even if a character stays the same, the situation in the beginning is very different from the ending. The same character may end up reacting differently even if he is unchanged during the whole story. Hebrews says that God spoke to us in various ways through his prophets but in the last days, he has spoken to us through His Son. Now that we know the ending, the beginning looks different to us. We know God is Trinity in the garden of Eden. We know He has been seeking the sons of Adam since then. 

Love,

Caroline



- Original Message - 
From: Ruben Israel 
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
Sent: Monday, May 16, 2005 8:30 AM
Subject: Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] Street Preaching


God is love. Now in light of His being love, tell me what His wrath and His hate is like? Hint: it's not the same as human hate and anger and it's definitely not the same as Satan's hate and anger.

So He was not love then?
I guess that is your way of saying, yes? Why not just take read for what it says? God is angry (as the verse clearly shows) everyday of every week of every year or as you asked 24/7? We do have consistency here with Old and New, how can someone read the book of Revelation and conclude God destroys nations, people the earth? Let me try this again, Can you please read me Psalm 7:11 and tell me what that verse is saying? 

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Re: [TruthTalk] Street Preaching

Excommunication was a very powerful corrective
tool. Then it was abused. Now it is ineffective as the person can go to another
community. In Paul's day, there was only one church. Or the person can find
other like-minded individuals and start his own church.

- Original Message -
From:
Kevin
Deegan
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org

Sent: Monday, May 16, 2005 9:47 PM
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Street
Preaching

You never commented on whether the situation was handled as a christian
ought.Caroline Wong [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:

There is spiritual protection in leading a
righteous life and there is protection in belonging to a godly community.
When Paul advised the Corinthians to expel the immoral brother, it was so
that he can experience the full consequences of his sin. In his follow up
letter, 2 Cor, he told them to take him back in because he repented.

We can't force people to love God or to obey
Him. We can only let people choose.

Love,

Caroline

- Original Message -
From:
Judy
Taylor
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org

Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org

Sent: Monday, May 16, 2005 4:16
AM
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Street
Preaching

I don't believe Jesus was at this time using
Himself as the example Caroline; remember He was born in Israel under the
Law andhis culture at the timetax collectors and pagans
wereostracised and made outcastswhich is similar to what Paul
counselled the Corinthian Church to do with the man whorefused to
repent of his moral issues and accept correction. Paul advised turning him
over toSatan for the destruction of the flesh with the hope that he
would later repent and his soul wouldbe saved

We've not learned this lesson and this is why we
are not receiving a whole lot from God. Under the Old Covenant
everyone was expected to follow the Law which is our friend rather than an
enemy; God's Commandments arn't grievious... and yes forgiveness is
paramount if we want to walk with God. jt

On Sun, 15 May 2005 22:59:14 -0500 "Caroline Wong" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
writes:

Step 4. and if your brother refuses to
listen to the church, treat him as you would a pagan or a tax
collector.

Step 5. and how did Jesus treat pagans and
tax collectors? He did not expect them to be able to follow the law and
be righteous. He loved them and ate with them. And they enjoyed his
presence.

Then Peter asked Jesus, how many times am I
suppose to forgive my brother? Seventy times seven according to some
manuscripts. Then Jesus told a parable that tells us how much we've been
forgiven and warns us against unforgiveness. Interesting sidebar: the
moral of the story was not - you've been forgiven much so you better be
good! but you've been forgiven much so you ought to forgive those who
sinned against you.

From: Kevin Deegan

STEP 1 GO TO YOUR BROTHER: Moreover if thy brother shall trespass against thee, go
and tell him his fault between thee and him
alone: if he shall hear thee, thou hast gained thy
brother.
STEP 2 BRING OTHER BRO's WITH YOU: But if he will not hear thee, then take with thee one or
two more, that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may
be established.
STEP 3 TAKE IT TO
THE CHURCH: And if he shall neglect to
hear them, tell it unto the church: but if he neglect to hear the
church, let him be unto thee as an heathen man and a
publican.
He ignored
all three of these. What a example of a Man of God!
Did any of these guys come to us as commanded
by the scriptures? NO Instead of following the scriptures, and
bringing it before the Church, Mr Johnson went right to the news Media
and used our reputations as his springboard into a bigger more
profitable ministry. A friend of mine interviewed on radio an
associate of Mr Johnson. When asked if he tried to do MT 18, said he
came down to the temple but could not find us. ROTFL what a liar.
Maybe we are not as loud as some

Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] baptism

You should be proud of being the only society to ever fix schoolyard Bullying.
Were you traumatized in the schoolyard as a kid?
Caroline Wong [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Thank you for correcting me. But bullying is hate. Thinking this is how the kingdom is advanced is deception.Love,Caroline- Original Message - From: "ShieldsFamily" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>To: Sent: Monday, May 16, 2005 8:31 AMSubject: RE: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] baptism Caroline, thank you for denigrating my capabilities of understanding. Is it possible that you might not understand something yourself? Have I promoted SP's making "racist or sexist remarks" or "bullying"? You are off the subject and don't even know it. MY point is that "hate speech" is not what SP's do by warning sinners that what they are doing is wrong. Hate speech is what human beings do every day by slandering and gossiping, and no law in Canada will
stop that. The anti-hate laws are created by sinful men to censor free speech which is not politically correct. It is of satan. Izzy -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Caroline Wong Sent: Monday, May 16, 2005 8:04 AM To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Subject: Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] baptism This may be beyond your understanding but people can be fired for racist or sexist remarks at the office. People watch their mouths. Some bosses find ways to be abusive without being racist or sexist but they have a high turnover in staff. And I'm sure the Lord judges them whether they are believers or not. All the schools are proactive in stopping bullying because they know kids lives can be ruined to the point where grade schoolers contemplate suicide.
Your family solved the problem by homeschooling. But bullying is a real problem and one that is not tolerated. Love, Caroline - Original Message - From: "ShieldsFamily" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Sunday, May 15, 2005 8:37 PM Subject: RE: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] baptism Boy, Canada would have a field day in any gradeschool classroom. Or any family with multiple children. Do they have tapes of the conversations at the office during lunch hour? Izzy -Original Message- And you can't ...speak hatefully to your fellow human being. -- "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6)
http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed. -- "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed. -- "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to
answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed. --"Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.orgIf you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
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Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] Street Preaching




John is not a Christian. Did he go to hell after 
Herod beheaded him?

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Kevin 
  Deegan 
  To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
  
  Sent: Monday, May 16, 2005 10:08 PM
  Subject: Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] Street 
  Preaching
  
  We are Christians, John was not, he was the friend of the 
  bridegroom a OT saint a Jew in a different kingdom.He 
  that hath the bride is the bridegroom: but the friend of the bridegroom, which 
  standeth and heareth him, rejoiceth greatly because of the bridegroom's voice: 
  this my joy therefore is fulfilled.Caroline Wong [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  wrote: 
  



Jesus said no one born of women is greater than John the Baptist. Does 
that include Jesus himself?
Then Jesus said the least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he. 
What did he mean by that? How are all of us here greater than John?

Love,

Caroline

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Terry Clifton 
  To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
  
  Sent: Monday, May 16, 2005 7:53 
  AM
  Subject: Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] 
  Street Preaching
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 
  



I don't recall discussing "methods." Just a comparison 
of messages, perhaps. And I do not consider my way better 
than someone's elses.But a rebuke without love is 
nothing more than hate speech. I have seen the love in some 
of Ruben's writings. I just hope that his street 
ministry has that passion as its base. Drive by preaching is 
a waste of time. Its when you stay and struggle with those 
who are being saved via your ministry that the tide is 
turned. We have an equal responsibility to disciple those 
who are being saved. I don't hear much about that around 
here. 

Jd

===Your 
  comment may be true in some cases, but there are examples in the Bible 
  that do not line up with what you suggest. John, the Baptist rebuked 
  with out love and Jesus called John the greatest man that ever 
  lived. Like Ruben, he was a fore runner. He delivered the word 
  and left the follow up to others. An evangelist often preceeds 
  a pastor. When Paul came to Antioch, he preached for less 
  than four months and was then run out of town. He came back two 
  years later to find a church that had grown to the point that Paul was 
  able to appoint elders from among the local boys to oversee this church 
  that had never had a pastor. You may be right that the wimpy 
  churches of today could not function for two years with out someone 
  to pat them on the head and pick up their toys, but real Christians have 
  done it. All they needed was the truth and the Holy Spirit. 
  
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Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] baptism




Actually no. Were you a bully? Wait, let me use my 
gift of discernment:-) ;-)

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Kevin 
  Deegan 
  To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
  
  Sent: Monday, May 16, 2005 10:17 PM
  Subject: Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] 
  baptism
  
  You should be proud of being the only society to ever fix schoolyard 
  Bullying.
  Were you traumatized in the schoolyard as a kid?
  Caroline Wong [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  wrote:
  Thank 
you for correcting me. But bullying is hate. Thinking this is how the 
kingdom is advanced is deception.Love,Caroline- 
Original Message - From: "ShieldsFamily" 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>To: Sent: 
Monday, May 16, 2005 8:31 AMSubject: RE: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] 
baptism Caroline, thank you for denigrating my capabilities 
of understanding. Is  it possible that you might not 
understand something yourself? Have I promoted SP's making "racist 
or sexist remarks" or "bullying"? You are off the subject and don't 
even know it. MY point is that "hate speech" is not  what 
SP's do by warning sinners that what they are doing is wrong. Hate 
speech is what human beings do every day by slandering and 
gossiping, and no law  in Canada will stop that. The 
anti-hate laws are created by sinful men to censor free speech which 
is not politically correct. It is of satan. Izzy 
-Original Message- From: 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Caroline 
Wong Sent: Monday, May 16, 2005 8:04 AM To: 
TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Subject: Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] 
baptism This may be beyond your understanding but people can 
be fired for racist  or sexist remarks at the office. People 
watch their mouths. Some bosses find ways to be abusive without 
being racist or sexist but they have a high turnover in staff. And 
I'm sure the Lord judges them whether they are believers or 
not. All the schools are proactive in stopping bullying 
because they know kids lives can be ruined to the point where grade 
schoolers contemplate  suicide. Your family solved the 
problem by homeschooling. But bullying is a real problem and one 
that is not tolerated. Love, 
Caroline - Original Message -  From: "ShieldsFamily" 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To:  
Sent: Sunday, May 15, 2005 8:37 PM Subject: RE: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] 
baptism Boy, Canada would have a field day in 
any gradeschool classroom. Or any family with multiple children. 
Do they have tapes of the conversations  at the 
office during lunch hour? Izzy -Original 
Message- And you can't ...speak hatefully to 
your fellow human being. 
-- "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with 
salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." 
(Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org 
If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email 
to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If 
you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail 
to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be 
subscribed. -- "Let your speech be always 
with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may  know how you 
ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) 
http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts 
from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you 
will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell 
him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be 
subscribed. -- "Let your 
speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may  know 
how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6)  
http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts 
from this list, send an email to  [EMAIL PROTECTED] and 
you will be unsubscribed. If you have a  friend who wants to join, 
tell him to send an e-mail to  [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he 
will be subscribed. --"Let your speech be always with 
grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every 
man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.orgIf you do not want to 
receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell 
him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be 
subscribed.
  
  
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Re: [TruthTalk] TRUTH TALK Most Dangerous man in Canada

CW other ways to bring the gospel to the people. 
Like your puppet ministry at church?
Caroline Wong [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

The PC crowd has no tolerance for hate literature. No ACLU in Canada, remember. Either the Evangelist will choose fines and jail (and jail is frequent in some countries like China) or he will find other ways to bring the gospel to the people. 

- Original Message - 
From: Kevin Deegan 
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
Sent: Monday, May 16, 2005 9:10 AM
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] TRUTH TALK Most Dangerous man in Canada

$17,000 fine for handing out literature?
The PC crowd is very INTOLERANT even of words!
But to hear them talk that is a different story, they love to tell you how open they are!Terry Clifton [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
And I thought the USA was a Godless country.Kevin Deegan wrote: 

Note: forwarded message attached.

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Subject: CBC News on Bill Whatcott

From: Bill Whatcott [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Date: Sun, 15 May 2005 23:32:46 -0600

To: Bill Whatcott [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: Bill Whatcott [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Whatcott ordered to stop anti-gay flyers 

Last Updated May 13 2005 09:02 AM CDTCBC News

REGINA  A Saskatchewan human rights tribunal has ruled a former Regina man incited hatred against gays and lesbians and has ordered him to pay more than $17,000. 

Bill WhatcottCBC file photoIn 2002, four people filed complaints against Bill Whatcott and a group called the Christian Truth Activists. They objected to pamphlets distributed in Regina and Saskatoon that referred to homosexual men as "sodomites" and called same-sex relationships "filthy". One of the flyers said: "Sodomites are 430 times more likely to acquire AIDS and three times more likely to sexually abuse children!" Brendan Wallace, one of the complainants, testified in 2002 he was angry and fearful as a result of receiving the material at his home. 

READ THE DECISION

Saskatchewan Human Rights Commission Tribunal: Wallace et al vs. Whatcott(Note: CBC does not endorse and is not responsible for the content of external sites. Link will open in new window) "Initially he thought it was a personal attack on his partner and himself," the tribunal decision said. "He related some of his life experiences as a gay man and wondered how others would react, including members of his own family." Whatcott has been ordered to pay $17,500 to Wallace and the three other complainants for hurt feelings and loss of dignity and self-respect. And the tribunal has ruled that Whatcott and his group can no longer distribute material that promotes hatred against people because of their sexual orientation. On Thursday, Wallace said he was
 pleased the tribunal agreed spreading this kind of material is wrong, but he doubts Whatcott's group will stop. "Only two weeks ago, we received some similar hate mail distributed to our house from the same man and the same group," he said. Whatcott could not be reached for comment. 

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Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] Street Preaching