date:20050601

Re: [TruthTalk] Judy and John on the Law and the Spirit

2005-06-01 Thread knpraise

Tue, 31 May 2005 16:42:15 -0400 [EMAIL PROTECTED]com writes:
Romans 8:4 is not talking about a righteousness that comes from obeying the Law, whether with the Spirit or otherwise. Rather, it is talking about a righteousness that is attributed to us because of the events of the Incarnation and the cross.

RED FLAG!!

Speaking of red flags -- what about establishing your doctrine about the Levitical Law with absolutely nothing but your imagination -- not that imagination is bad ??

Romans 8:4-8 says nothing about any "incarnation" it reads: "That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

Whoa there Neilly !!! verse 4 actually reads that the righteous requirements of The Law and what are thoserequirements? Well, in a practical sense, these retirements all have to do with Christ and His sacrifice. (see v 3)

So Christ performedso thatthe righteous requirements of the Law (things we could not or did not do) might fulfilled in us. This has nothing to do with being righteous by right of our own doing -- it was Christ on the cross that made us righteous !!!

Walk in the flesh (verse) is given definition in verse 54, Judy. Who are those who walk in the flesh? Those who do the deeds of the flesh? Nope. It is those who set their MINDS ON THE FLESH. Who are those who are of the Spirit? Those, in this context, who do spiritual THINGS? No again. It is those who set their minds on the Spirit. Romans 12, therefore, speaks of the renewing of our minds -- precisely because of this (new) definition.

For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit. For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. Because the carnal mind is enmity against God; for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be. So then they that are in the flesh can not please God"

Well, a hearty AMEN to this !! Paul continues his theme and purpose in this 8th chapter. Continuing to speak of what we think rather than how we act. Remember, in 7:25, he just got through saying that we do not ACT so greatwith the FLESH we serve the law of sin and death. Where is the hope? It is in the definition !!! there are two levels of carna
l involvement: one is that which has to do with activity and the other is that which has to do with the mind. In Romans 1:24, they were given over (by God) to the lusts of their .flesh? No to the lusts of their heart (an I see heart and mind as the same thing in scripture). Disobedience to parents is on this list of those given over to the lusts of their heart. It is one thing to be disobedient to your parents; it is quite another matter to be given over, in your mind, to disobeying your parents. In the former case, you commit sin. The later case, you are given over, you are completely controlled by your desires in a particular area (and there are 26 of them in this list.)

How do I know?
(a) Because this the very point made in the preceding verse (thatwould be verse 3)

jt: Verse 3 says that by sending His Son in the likeness of flesh, condemned sin in the flesh; it says nothing about
any incarnation.

Stop with this empty criticism, Judy. Your own people at BSF speak of the Incarnation . It is heresy to deny it.

[TruthTalk] Judy and John on the Law and the Spirit

2005-06-01 Thread Judy Taylor






On Wed, 01 Jun 2005 02:33:32 -0400 [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Romans 8:4 is not talking about a righteousness that comes from obeying the 
Law, whether with the Spirit or otherwise. Rather, it is talking about a 
righteousness that is attributed to us because of the events 
of the Incarnation and the cross. RED 
FLAG!! Speaking of red flags -- what about 
establishing your doctrine about the Levitical Law with absolutely nothing but 
your imagination -- not that imagination is bad ??

jt: Exactly what is this "imaginative" doctrine about 
the Levitical Law that you refer to JD? Romans 8:4-8 says nothing about 
any "incarnation" it reads: "That the righteousness of the law might be 
fulfilled in us, who walk not after theflesh, but after the 
Spirit.Whoa there Neilly !!! verse 4 actually reads 
?that the righteous requirements of The Law ?? and what are those 
requirements? Well, in a practical sense, these retirements all have 
to do with Christ and His sacrifice. (see v 3)

jt: Vs.3 does not refer to Calvary where Christ was 
made an eternal Sacrifice for sin. He fulfilled the Law in his daily life by 
walking in love and obedience first toward God and then toward others and this 
is the example that He left for us to follow (1 Peter 2:24). Seehow 
twisted your "incarnational" doctrine is JD? If Romans 8:4 referred to 
Calvary then the righteousness of the law would never ever be fulfilled in us or 
anyone else because He is the only one who qualified for that 
ministry. No, the righteousness of the law is 
fulfilled in those who walk after the spirit and who do not fulfill the lust of 
the flesh.So Christ performed so that the righteous requirements 
of the Law (things we could not or did not do) might fulfilled in 
us. This has nothing to do with being righteous by right of our own 
doing -- it was Christ on the cross that made us righteous 
!!! Walk in the flesh (verse) is given definition in 
verse 54, Judy. Who are those who walk in the flesh? 
Those who do the deeds of the flesh? Nope. It is those who set their 
MINDS ON THE FLESH.

jt: We may not have been able to do them before the 
cross because of the weakness of the fallen flesh nature but we can do them now 
because we have received "dunamis" or power from on high. The ones who 
Christ made righteous are those who "DO" righteousness (1 John 3:7) not those 
who have conventions and talk about the "incarnation" - The flesh is not a 
mindset only JD, thefleshhas deeds also 
and they are listed in Galatians 5:19; have you not heard the following 
saying. Sow a thought, reap an act, 
Sow an act, reap a habit, Sow a habit, reap a lifestyle?

Who are those who are of the Spirit? Those, in this context, who do 
spiritual THINGS? No again. It is those who set their minds on 
the Spirit. Romans 12, therefore, speaks of the renewing of our 
minds -- precisely because of this (new) definition.For 
they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are 
after the Spirit the things of the Spirit. For to be carnally minded is death; 
but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. Because the carnal mind is 
enmity against God; for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can 
be. So then they that are in the fleshcan not please God" 

jt: Yes and.Well, a hearty AMEN to 
this !! Paul continues his theme and purpose in this 8th 
chapter. Continuing to speak of what we think rather than how we act.

jt:Evil thoughts lead to evil actions and those 
who live in Galatians 5:19 DO NOT inherit the Kingdom of God no matter what 
doctrine they are holding in their right hand... 

Remember, in 7:25, he just got through saying that we do not ACT so 
great??? with the FLESH we serve the law of sin and death. 
Where is the hope? It is in the definition 
!!! there are two levels of carna l involvement: one is that 
which has to do with activity and the other is that which has to do with the 
mind. In Romans 1:24, they were given over (by God) to the lusts of 
their??? flesh? No ? to the lusts of their heart (an I see heart 
and mind as the same thingin scripture). Disobedience to parents 
is on this list of those given over to the lusts of their heart. It 
is one thing to be disobedient to your parents; it is quite another matter 
to be given over, in your mind, to disobeying your parents. In the 
former case, you commit sin. The later case, you are given over, you 
are completely controlled by your desires in a particular area (and 
there are 26 of them in this list.) 

jt: Are we straining at gnats here JD? Lust is 
lust and the fruit of lust is more lust; does not matter where it is found, it 
always spreads like yeast in bread dough. Romans 1 describes the gentile 
nations who God gaveover to fleshly desires because this was their life 
choiceand He will always give us over to our own desires in the 
end.How do I know?(a) Because this the very point 
made in the preceding verse (that would be verse 3) jt: Verse 3 says

Re: [Bulk] Re: [TruthTalk] Perry vs DaveH

2005-06-01 Thread Lance Muir




Who are your teachers? What are their authorities? What 'teaching' 
concerning the nature/gospel of God issues from these teachers and their 
teaching sources? Just how 'ultimate' IYO is the James 1 experience?

IMO that which transpires herein (TT) is somewhat comparable to the 1st 
and, early centuries between the various factions who set out to answer such 
questions as those concerning the canon of Scripture and, the nature of the 
Person of Christ.

IMO there exists sufficient similarity between the Christ 
believed/lived/preached on the part of the 'camp' of the non-Mormons for them/us 
to be identified with the historic 'orthodox' wing of Christianity. The Mormon 
'camp', having taken on board supplementary 'scriptures' and, a new line of 
'prophets' commencing with Joseph Smith, cannot but fall within a 'non-orthodox' 
wing of Christianity.

Other than reversing my designations of orthodox/non-orthodox, just how 
might you disagree with what I've said? I should much like to hear from Dave and 
Blaine, along with any 'lurkers' on this.

thanks,

Lance

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
  
  Sent: May 31, 2005 17:19
  Subject: [Bulk] Re: [TruthTalk] Perry vs 
  DaveH
  
  
  I agree, Izzy, and by now you should know that the Church of Jesus Christ 
  of Latter-day Saints teaches enduring to the end IN CHRIST--only. You 
  have unfortunately fallenunder the very bad influence 
  ofthoseblind guideswho teach the traditions and 
  commandments of men, mixed with a few select scriptures to support their 
  craftiness.I have a hard time believing you guys really 
  believethese silly assertions that we worship JS, or anyone else 
  than Jesus Christ. If you insist on fleeing from the true shepherd, be 
  my guest. But read below . . . 
  
  "O how marvelous are the works of the Lord, and how long 
  doth he suffer with his people; yea, and how blind and impenetrableare 
  the understandings of the children of men; for they will not seek wisdom, 
  neither do they desire that she should rule over them.
  Yea, they are as a wild flock which fleeth from the 
  shepherd, and scattereth, and are driven, and are devoured by the beasts of 
  the forest." (BoM, Mosiah 8:20-21)
  
  In a message dated 5/31/2005 1:16:18 PM Mountain Standard Time, 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
  No. You must 
endure to the end in Christ. Enduring to the end in JSmith doesnt 
cut it. Sorry. Iz

Re: [TruthTalk] Perry vs DaveH

2005-06-01 Thread Lance Muir

CPL:Jus how nuanced would you make this out to be vis a vis 'the right
Jesus'?  Would you acknowledge that David Miller's Jesus' was not the Jesus
of Bill Taylor? IMO this is so. Should you doubt this I could call BT 'up
from the dead' to so demonstrate my point. Does this 'count'?

- Original Message - 
From: Charles Perry Locke [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: June 01, 2005 01:03
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Perry vs DaveH

 Blaine,

You have to have the right jesus, or it does not count. The bible is
 replete with warnings not to follow false christs...written well before JS
 ever invented (or was inspired by Satan to invent) the mormon jesus. It is
 that simple. You have to have the right jesus.

 Perry

 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Reply-To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
 To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Perry vs DaveH
 Date: Tue, 31 May 2005 17:19:13 EDT

 I agree, Izzy, and by now you should know that the Church of Jesus Christ
 of
 Latter-day Saints teaches enduring to the end IN CHRIST--only.  You have
 unfortunately fallen under the very bad influence  of  those blind guides
 who
 teach the traditions and  commandments of men, mixed with a few select
 scriptures
 to support their  craftiness.  I have a hard time believing you guys
really
 believe these silly  assertions that we worship JS, or anyone else  than
 Jesus
 Christ.  If you insist on fleeing from the true shepherd, be my  guest.
 But
 read below . . .

 O how marvelous are the works of the Lord, and how long  doth he suffer
 with
 his people; yea, and how blind and impenetrable are the  understandings
of
 the children of men; for they will not seek wisdom, neither do  they
desire
 that
 she should rule over them.
 Yea, they are as a wild flock which fleeth from the  shepherd, and
 scattereth, and are driven, and are devoured by the beasts of the
forest.
   (BoM,
 Mosiah 8:20-21)

 In a message dated 5/31/2005 1:16:18 PM Mountain Standard Time,
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

 No.  You must  endure to the end â?oin Christâ?.  Enduring to the end in
 JSmith
 doesnâ?Tt cut  it.  Sorry. Iz

 --
 Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may
know how you ought to answer every man.  (Colossians 4:6)
http://www.InnGlory.org

 If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to
[EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed.  If you have a
friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to
[EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.

--
Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know 
how you ought to answer every man.  (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org

If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL 
PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed.  If you have a friend who wants to 
join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.

Re: [TruthTalk] Judy and John on the Law and the Spirit

2005-06-01 Thread Lance Muir




Jt says BSF 'speaks of it' (the incarnation) 
without 'doctrinizing' (my word) it. Does BSF speak of the Trinitarian nature of 
God (one being three persons) in just the same fashion?

IMO you, Judy, are illustrative of my point to CPL. 
You teach/preach a different Jesus than the bishop. Without doubt, Judy, you do. 
Some parts of your teaching 'probably' border on being heretical. Even if this 
is so, yet do I believe God's Grace includes you.(Don't get sidetracked 
identifying my 'presumptuousness' in so speaking)

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Judy 
  Taylor 
  To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
  
  Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
  
  Sent: June 01, 2005 05:37
  Subject: [TruthTalk] Judy and John on the 
  Law and the Spirit
  
  
  
  On Wed, 01 Jun 2005 02:33:32 -0400 [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
  Romans 8:4 is not talking about a righteousness that comes from obeying 
  the Law, whether with the Spirit or otherwise. Rather, it is talking 
  about a righteousness that is attributed to us because of 
  the events of the Incarnation and the cross. RED FLAG!! Speaking of red flags 
  -- what about establishing your doctrine about the Levitical Law 
  with absolutely nothing but your imagination -- not that 
  imagination is bad ??
  
  jt: Exactly what is this "imaginative" doctrine about 
  the Levitical Law that you refer to JD? Romans 8:4-8 says nothing about 
  any "incarnation" it reads: "That the righteousness of the law might be 
  fulfilled in us, who walk not after theflesh, but after the 
  Spirit.Whoa there Neilly !!! verse 4 actually reads 
  ?that the righteous requirements of The Law ?? and what are those 
  requirements? Well, in a practical sense, these retirements all 
  have to do with Christ and His sacrifice. (see v 3)
  
  jt: Vs.3 does not refer to Calvary where Christ was 
  made an eternal Sacrifice for sin. He fulfilled the Law in his daily life by 
  walking in love and obedience first toward God and then toward others and this 
  is the example that He left for us to follow (1 Peter 2:24). Seehow 
  twisted your "incarnational" doctrine is JD? If Romans 8:4 referred to 
  Calvary then the righteousness of the law would never ever be fulfilled in us 
  or anyone else because He is the only one who qualified for 
  that ministry. No, the righteousness of the law is 
  fulfilled in those who walk after the spirit and who do not fulfill the lust 
  of the flesh.So Christ performed so that the righteous 
  requirements of the Law (things we could not or did not do) might fulfilled in 
  us. This has nothing to do with being righteous by right of our 
  own doing -- it was Christ on the cross that made us 
  righteous !!! Walk in the flesh (verse) is given 
  definition in verse 54, Judy. Who are those who walk in the 
  flesh? Those who do the deeds of the flesh? Nope. It 
  is those who set their MINDS ON THE FLESH.
  
  jt: We may not have been able to do them before the 
  cross because of the weakness of the fallen flesh nature but we can do them 
  now because we have received "dunamis" or power from on high. The ones 
  who Christ made righteous are those who "DO" righteousness (1 John 3:7) not 
  those who have conventions and talk about the "incarnation" - The flesh is not 
  a mindset only JD, thefleshhas deeds 
  also and they are listed in Galatians 5:19; have you not heard the following 
  saying. Sow a thought, reap an act, 
  Sow an act, reap a habit, Sow a habit, reap a lifestyle?
  
  Who are those who are of the Spirit? Those, in this context, who do 
  spiritual THINGS? No again. It is those who set their minds 
  on the Spirit. Romans 12, therefore, speaks of the renewing of our 
  minds -- precisely because of this (new) 
  definition.For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of 
  the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit. For to 
  be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. 
  Because the carnal mind is enmity against God; for it is not subject to the 
  law of God, neither indeed can be. So then they that are in the fleshcan 
  not please God" 
  
  jt: Yes and.Well, a hearty AMEN to 
  this !! Paul continues his theme and purpose in this 8th 
  chapter. Continuing to speak of what we think rather than how we act.
  
  jt:Evil thoughts lead to evil actions and those 
  who live in Galatians 5:19 DO NOT inherit the Kingdom of God no matter what 
  doctrine they are holding in their right hand... 
  
  Remember, in 7:25, he just got through saying that we do not ACT so 
  great??? with the FLESH we serve the law of sin and death. 
  Where is the hope? It is in the definition 
  !!! there are two levels of carna l involvement: one is that 
  which has to do with activity and the other is that which has to do with the 
  mind. In Romans 1:24, they were given over (by God) to the lusts 
  of their??? flesh? No ? to the lusts of their heart (an I see 
  heart and mind

Fw: [Bulk] Re: [TruthTalk] Judy and John on the Law and the Spirit

2005-06-01 Thread Lance Muir

- Original Message - 
From: Debbie Sawczak 
To: Lance Muir 
Sent: May 31, 2005 14:54
Subject: Re: [Bulk] Re: [TruthTalk] Judy and John on the Law and the 
Spirit

I like what he says about the Law and 
theIncarnation, and the Law as code vs the Law as God's word (part of the 
true story/plot of God's action).

Just to pick up on the last thing he says: There is 
something about the narrative view, the (NT Wright's)"royal proclamation" 
view of the gospel and its preaching, as opposed to the "system whereby people 
get saved" view, that also enhances a recognition ofthe 
connection/continuity between oneself and the original disciples. In the false 
view, it is as if we have each read the ad and then written in for the product 
to be shipped by mail to us from the warehouse. In the (W)right view, it is news 
we have receivedat first hand (from theperson who told us)and 
at the same time ultimately at nth hand (fromthe original disciples); or, 
it is like receiving the shockwave from an explosion but conducted through the 
medium of persons. I remember feeling this continuity once when receiving 
communion from the hand of another believer. I don't know if this is in Gary's 
mind, but it is in mine as I read that last sentence.

There was something else directly related to this 
that was on the edge of my brain but disappeared while I wrote the 
above.

D

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Lance 
  Muir 
  To: Debbie Sawczak 
  Sent: Tuesday, May 31, 2005 10:05 
AM
  Subject: Fw: [Bulk] Re: [TruthTalk] Judy 
  and John on the Law and the Spirit

  - Original Message - 
  From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 

  To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 

  Sent: May 31, 2005 09:37
  Subject: [Bulk] Re: [TruthTalk] Judy and John on the Law and the 
  Spirit

  the issue of 
  'discipleship' is at the core and crossroads of numerous issues on the TT 
  table; e.g., 
  the 
  observation, below, is accurate in its NT context but 'following' JC today 
  requires redefining discipleship per se...it's not that the NT fails 
  to make this point; Jesus himself realizes that people (will) trust him 
  implicitly whom have never 'met' him..it follows that amongmodern 
  practioners of religion are those who abusehis term 'disciple', 
  particthrough literalizing it; the/ir abuse turns in part on 
  incorporating JC directly into their preexisting value system never having 
  literally 'followed' him anywhere--nor,ifconfronted with the 
  realitywould they prefer to anyway..where the normativepreexisting 
  value system is religious legalism, JC, acc to the NT obliterates it,the 
  abuse/s of the Law, but not the Law as God's word--in JCs view,God 
  designed the Law of Moses for the cultural well being of its historic 
  adherents; however, its role changes as history changes--the point is that 
  history changed through the Incarnation (like 'I and the Father are 
  one')whichlegalist religionists despise; fromIncarnation(al 
  theology)on, legalism's exposed, its inherent weaknesses delineated, its 
  abuses obliterated; basically, JC did this 'work'(of grace) partic for 
  his closest associates--e.g., i know what he has done for me in part because 
  of what he did for (e.g.)the Ap Johnand the Ap Paul--the three of 
  us are JCs associates, but only one of uswas his 'disciple' per 
  se, the Ap John...

  On Tue, 31 May 2005 08:47:48 -0400 [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

The return to law is a favorite pastime of so many well meaning 
  disciples..

RE: [TruthTalk] Perry vs DaveH

2005-06-01 Thread ShieldsFamily









Satan is an imitator. And a liar. So was
JS. He never entered into The Kingdom for sure. Izzy











From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Tuesday, May 31, 2005 11:36
PM
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Perry vs
DaveH







In a message dated 5/31/2005 6:19:18 PM
Mountain Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:





Please dont quote B.M. to me. It means nothing as it was
written by a crafty, adulterous man named Joseph Smith. Izzy





I won't! (Not unless I see something
that really isunsettling to all you evangelical TT'rs!! Ha! :)





By crafty, I was referring to what I call Priestcraft.
Joseph Smith never really made much money at being a prophet. I
would hardly call him crafty. He finally gave up his life, in
fact. Like Moses, he never even got to enter the promised
Land of Salt
 Lake Valley.
His friend, Brigham Young, did so, just as Joshua did before him.
Interesting parallels there. The Salt Lake Valley
even has a dead Sea, the Great Salt Lake, and a Jordon River,
leading from a fresh-water lake, called Utah Lake.
The only two places
in the world where such a phenomenon exists are Israel,
and the Salt Lake Valley.
Joseph Smith was a lawgiver, too, much as was Moses. hmmm, do you think
the Lord of creation is trying to tell us something, Izzy?





BlaineRB

RE: [TruthTalk] Judy and John on the Law and the Spirit

2005-06-01 Thread ShieldsFamily









You and JD seem to worship the Bishop.
Is he your Pope? Izzy











From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance Muir
Sent: Wednesday, June 01, 2005
3:55 AM
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Judy and
John on the Law and the Spirit







Jt says BSF 'speaks of it' (the incarnation) without
'doctrinizing' (my word) it. Does BSF speak of the Trinitarian nature of God
(one being three persons) in just the same fashion?











IMO you, Judy, are illustrative of my point to CPL. You
teach/preach a different Jesus than the bishop. Without doubt, Judy, you do.
Some parts of your teaching 'probably' border on being heretical. Even if this
is so, yet do I believe God's Grace includes you.(Don't get sidetracked
identifying my 'presumptuousness' in so speaking)







- Original Message - 





From: Judy Taylor






To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org






Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org






Sent: June 01, 2005
05:37





Subject: [TruthTalk] Judy
and John on the Law and the Spirit

















On Wed, 01 Jun 2005 02:33:32 -0400 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
writes:





Romans 8:4 is not talking about a righteousness that comes from obeying
the Law, whether with the Spirit or otherwise. Rather, it is talking
about a righteousness that is attributed to us because of the events of the Incarnation and the cross.


RED FLAG!! 

Speaking of red flags -- what about establishing your
doctrine about the Levitical Law with absolutely nothing but your
imagination -- not that imagination is bad ??











jt: Exactly what is this
imaginative doctrine about the Levitical Law that you refer to
JD? Romans 8:4-8 says nothing about any incarnation it
reads: That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us,
who walk not after the
flesh, but after the Spirit.

Whoa there Neilly !!! verse 4 actually reads ?that the righteous
requirements of The Law ?? and what are those
requirements? Well, in a practical sense, these retirements all
have to do with Christ and His sacrifice. (see v 3)











jt: Vs.3 does not refer to Calvary where Christ was made an eternal Sacrifice for
sin. He fulfilled the Law in his daily life by walking in love and obedience
first toward God and then toward others and this is the example that He left
for us to follow (1 Peter 2:24). Seehow twisted your
incarnational doctrine is JD? If Romans 8:4 referred to Calvary then the righteousness of the law would never
ever be fulfilled in us or anyone else because He is the only one who qualified for that
ministry. No, the righteousness of the law is fulfilled in those who walk after
the spirit and who do not fulfill the lust of the flesh.

So Christ performed so that the righteous requirements of the Law (things we
could not or did not do) might fulfilled in us. This has nothing to
do with being righteous by right of our own doing -- it was Christ
on the cross that made us righteous !!! Walk in the
flesh (verse) is given definition in verse 54, Judy. Who are
those who walk in the flesh? Those who do the deeds of the
flesh? Nope. It is those who set their MINDS ON THE
FLESH.











jt: We may not have been able to do them
before the cross because of the weakness of the fallen flesh nature but we can
do them now because we have received dunamis or power from on
high. The ones who Christ made righteous are those who DO
righteousness (1 John 3:7) not those who have conventions and talk about the
incarnation - The flesh is not a mindset only JD,
thefleshhas deeds also and they are listed in Galatians 5:19; have
you not heard the following saying. Sow a thought, reap an act, Sow an
act, reap a habit, Sow a habit, reap a lifestyle?











Who are those who are of the Spirit? Those, in this context, who
do spiritual THINGS? No again. It is those who set their
minds on the Spirit. Romans 12, therefore, speaks of the renewing
of our minds -- precisely because of this (new)
definition.For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of
the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit. For to
be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
Because the carnal mind is enmity against God; for it is not subject to the law
of God, neither indeed can be. So then they that are in the flesh
can not please God 











jt: Yes and.

Well, a hearty AMEN to this !! Paul continues his theme and purpose in
this 8th chapter. Continuing to speak of what we think rather than
how we act.











jt:Evil thoughts lead to evil
actions and those who live in Galatians 5:19 DO NOT inherit the Kingdom of God no matter what doctrine they are
holding in their right hand... 











Remember, in 7:25, he just got through saying that we do not ACT
so great??? with the FLESH we serve the law of sin and death.
Where is the hope? It is in the definition
!!! there are two levels of carna l involvement: one is that
which has to do with activity and the other

[TruthTalk] Judy and John on the Law and the Spirit

2005-06-01 Thread Judy Taylor






On Wed, 1 Jun 2005 05:54:52 -0400 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

  Jt says BSF 'speaks of it' (the incarnation) 
  without 'doctrinizing' (my word) it. Does BSF speak of the Trinitarian nature 
  of God (one being three persons) in just the same fashion?
  
  jt: When I wrote this Lance I was 
  saying that they spoke of the incident from the gospel of Luke this year. The 
  word incarnation is not scriptural and neither are the words Trinity and 
  Trinitarian, ortheological and/or eschatological .. so much that you 
  hold sacred is man made.
  
  IMO you, Judy, are illustrative of my point to 
  CPL. You teach/preach a different Jesus than the bishop. Without doubt, Judy, 
  you do. Some parts of your teaching 'probably' border on being heretical. Even 
  if this is so, yet do I believe God's Grace includes you.(Don't get 
  sidetracked identifying my 'presumptuousness' in so 
  speaking)
  
  jt: Well then the $50 million 
  question then would have to be - who has the genuine and who has the 
  counterfeit. You don't need to apologize Lance, I'm not under any allusion 
  that you are the one who has been appointed judge over such 
  matters. jt
  
  
  
From: Judy Taylor 

On Wed, 01 Jun 2005 02:33:32 -0400 [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Romans 8:4 is not talking about a righteousness that comes from obeying 
the Law, whether with the Spirit or otherwise. Rather, it is talking 
about a righteousness that is attributed to us because 
of the events of the Incarnation and the cross. RED FLAG!! Speaking of red flags 
-- what about establishing your doctrine about the Levitical Law 
with absolutely nothing but your imagination -- not that 
imagination is bad ??

jt: Exactly what is this "imaginative" doctrine 
about the Levitical Law that you refer to JD? Romans 8:4-8 says 
nothing about any "incarnation" it reads: "That the righteousness of 
the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after theflesh, but after 
the Spirit.Whoa there Neilly !!! verse 4 actually 
reads ?that the righteous requirements of The Law ?? and what 
are those requirements? Well, in a practical sense, these 
retirements all have to do with Christ and His sacrifice. (see v 
3)

jt: Vs.3 does not refer to Calvary where Christ was 
made an eternal Sacrifice for sin. He fulfilled the Law in his daily life by 
walking in love and obedience first toward God and then toward others and 
this is the example that He left for us to follow (1 Peter 2:24). 
Seehow twisted your "incarnational" doctrine is JD? If Romans 
8:4 referred to Calvary then the righteousness of the law would never ever 
be fulfilled in us or anyone else because He is the only 
one who qualified for that ministry. No, 
the righteousness of the law is fulfilled in those who walk after the spirit 
and who do not fulfill the lust of the flesh.So Christ 
performed so that the righteous requirements of the Law (things we could not 
or did not do) might fulfilled in us. This has nothing to do 
with being righteous by right of our own doing -- it was Christ 
on the cross that made us righteous !!! Walk in the 
flesh (verse) is given definition in verse 54, Judy. Who 
are those who walk in the flesh? Those who do the deeds of the 
flesh? Nope. It is those who set their MINDS ON THE 
FLESH.

jt: We may not have been able to do them before the 
cross because of the weakness of the fallen flesh nature but we can do them 
now because we have received "dunamis" or power from on high. The ones 
who Christ made righteous are those who "DO" righteousness (1 John 3:7) not 
those who have conventions and talk about the "incarnation" - The flesh is 
not a mindset only JD, thefleshhas 
deeds also and they are listed in Galatians 5:19; have you not heard the 
following saying. Sow a thought, reap an 
act, Sow an act, reap a habit, Sow a habit, reap a lifestyle?

Who are those who are of the Spirit? Those, in this context, who 
do spiritual THINGS? No again. It is those who set their 
minds on the Spirit. Romans 12, therefore, speaks of the 
renewing of our minds -- precisely because of this (new) 
definition.For they that are after the flesh do mind the things 
of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit. 
For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and 
peace. Because the carnal mind is enmity against God; for it is not subject 
to the law of God, neither indeed can be. So then they that are in the 
fleshcan not please God" 

jt: Yes and.Well, a hearty AMEN 
to this !! Paul continues his theme and purpose in this 
8th chapter. Continuing to speak of what we think rather than 
how we act.

jt:Evil thoughts lead to evil actions and 
those who live in

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