Re: XP and Vista question
On 11 Apr 2007, at 06:51, Chipp Walters wrote: Been reading this same sort of doom and gloom regarding Microsoft for years. When MS makes mistakes (frequently), they often do change their course-- and quickly. http://www.cs.auckland.ac.nz/~pgut001/pubs/vista_cost.html Dear Chipp The problem is, that linked article is in no way about the downfall of Microsoft. Although there are parts in it that say Microsoft made a mistake or Suicide note, that is not the main focus of the article as I perceived it. For me, the most important message in that article was (in my words): Microsofts implementation to enforce DRM in the new Vista will make every software, and every hardware only remotely attached to the PC platform more costly and more buggy. Even if the user never comes near Vista itself. Although that may be true or not, it is a very interesting notion based on the facts he put forth. Especially for a cross platform tool user as myself. Personally I think that this is as much build in into Windows as IE. Although it could technically be removed, Microsoft will fight to the death to keep it in, as for them it is their lifeblood. I have watched DRM reduce the usability of every digital medium since the content providers where shocked by the (then) new lossless capabilities of copying (ca. 1970 or so i guess). In the end, DRM is all about reducing your customers to sheeps: Mindless creatures to be slaughtered on a whim. The problem is, they are not, and in fact find you very much rude if they perceive you to having such thoughts. Also unlike sheeps, customers aren't slaughtered, but give you money voluntarily or out of their own need, so as soon as you slaughter one (or try to), all the others will think about finding another person to give their money to (If they find one depends on many variables of course). I do plan to become a supplier if my own IP in the future, but I have yet to find an answer to protecting sold digital data which satisfies me. Most likely, I probably won't protect it, or only very lightly. Sincerely yours Björnke von Gierke -- official ChatRev page: http://chatrev.bjoernke.com Chat with other RunRev developers: go stack URL http://homepage.mac.com/bvg/chatrev1.3.rev; ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: XP and Vista question
STOP EMAILINGME From: Björnke von Gierke [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: How to use Revolution use-revolution@lists.runrev.com To: How to use Revolution use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Subject: Re: XP and Vista question Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2007 20:26:07 +0200 On 11 Apr 2007, at 06:51, Chipp Walters wrote: Been reading this same sort of doom and gloom regarding Microsoft for years. When MS makes mistakes (frequently), they often do change their course-- and quickly. http://www.cs.auckland.ac.nz/~pgut001/pubs/vista_cost.html Dear Chipp The problem is, that linked article is in no way about the downfall of Microsoft. Although there are parts in it that say Microsoft made a mistake or Suicide note, that is not the main focus of the article as I perceived it. For me, the most important message in that article was (in my words): Microsofts implementation to enforce DRM in the new Vista will make every software, and every hardware only remotely attached to the PC platform more costly and more buggy. Even if the user never comes near Vista itself. Although that may be true or not, it is a very interesting notion based on the facts he put forth. Especially for a cross platform tool user as myself. Personally I think that this is as much build in into Windows as IE. Although it could technically be removed, Microsoft will fight to the death to keep it in, as for them it is their lifeblood. I have watched DRM reduce the usability of every digital medium since the content providers where shocked by the (then) new lossless capabilities of copying (ca. 1970 or so i guess). In the end, DRM is all about reducing your customers to sheeps: Mindless creatures to be slaughtered on a whim. The problem is, they are not, and in fact find you very much rude if they perceive you to having such thoughts. Also unlike sheeps, customers aren't slaughtered, but give you money voluntarily or out of their own need, so as soon as you slaughter one (or try to), all the others will think about finding another person to give their money to (If they find one depends on many variables of course). I do plan to become a supplier if my own IP in the future, but I have yet to find an answer to protecting sold digital data which satisfies me. Most likely, I probably won't protect it, or only very lightly. Sincerely yours Björnke von Gierke -- official ChatRev page: http://chatrev.bjoernke.com Chat with other RunRev developers: go stack URL http://homepage.mac.com/bvg/chatrev1.3.rev; ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution _ Get the Kung Fu Bunny Theme pack free! http://www.imagine-windowslive.com/Themes/Messenger/Reward/Default.aspx?Locale=en-CA# ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: XP and Vista question
At 5:22 PM -0600 4/11/07, ian wallace wrote: STOP EMAILINGME STOP EMAILING YOURSELF! (see link below) Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution Kung Fu Bunny Theme pack -- stephen barncard s a n f r a n c i s c o - - - - - - - - - - - - ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: XP and Vista question
I was just about to post that same link. The paper, a dry, pictureless but very informative and cleverly written tome called A Cost Analysis of Windows Vista Content Protection, describes troubles with the Content Protection specification of Vista, Microsoft’s next operating system. Here is the Executive Executive Summary: The Vista Content Protection specification could very well constitute the longest suicide note in history. Ostensibly, professional media applications, like editing, motion graphics and audio applications from Adobe, Avid/DigiDesign, Discreet and many other Windows developers will somehow be able to bypass or disable this protection scheme, but it might be such a laborious process that some developers will lean towards OS X or Linux, or, if cross-platform, drop the Vista version. Adobe has already announced that the next versions of Premiere, Encore and other previously Windows-only apps will also be released on OS X. Or, Microsoft could come to their senses and greatly modify this spec. But, if the predictions made in this document are true, it could make professional media production systems based on Vista *more expensive* than equivalent performance OS X systems, due to needing more powerful CPUs and GPUs, and faster busses to provide the same speed, meaning the 50% of digital media pros who use Windows might have to re-evaluate to cut costs when it comes time to upgrade their hardware. Historically, digital media pros who use Windows systems do so either because of Windows-only software or because they were more cost- effective. Like you, I believe digital media is the future, and so a mutiny to OS X by digital media pros will lead a sea change that subtly, imperceptibly, will tilt the platform away from Vista. On Apr 9, 2007, at 2:31 AM, Martin Blackman wrote: Not sure if this link has already been posted but here is a fascinating analysis of the costs repercussions of Vista's DRM http://www.cs.auckland.ac.nz/~pgut001/pubs/vista_cost.html#author There are many nice quotes in the article, here is just one- Because Windows dominates the market and device vendors are unlikely to design and manufacture two different versions of their products, non-Windows users will be paying for Windows Vista content-protection measures in products even if they never run Windows on them. ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: XP and Vista question
Been reading this same sort of doom and gloom regarding Microsoft for years. When MS makes mistakes (frequently), they often do change their course-- and quickly. Back in 2002, MS announced Palladium trusted computing bound to the chip, would be involved in it's next version of WinXP. With it, software developers could license directly to the processor serial number. There was such a big outcry, that it was quickly dismissed. Looks like they're taking another run at it- but I imagine it will be bypassed quickly by smart developers who know what their customers want. Now with Jobs pushing for non-DRM'd music (yay!), I expect even more pressure will come to bear on MS's draconian DRM practices. And MS stockholders and Wall Street won't suffer their stupidity long on this issue. I predict it will be a non-issue in 12 months. -Chipp ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: XP and Vista question
Not sure if this link has already been posted but here is a fascinating analysis of the costs repercussions of Vista's DRM http://www.cs.auckland.ac.nz/~pgut001/pubs/vista_cost.html#author There are many nice quotes in the article, here is just one- Because Windows dominates the market and device vendors are unlikely to design and manufacture two different versions of their products, non-Windows users will be paying for Windows Vista content-protection measures in products even if they never run Windows on them. ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: XP and Vista question
Bob- Saturday, March 10, 2007, 9:30:11 PM, you wrote: Perhaps in the end, though, this is a healthier situation for Linux. People need to migrate because Linux is a better system than Windows, not only because it is cheaper. So now the Linux people have to try even harder to prove its superiority beyond doubt. The end may draweth nigh: http://www.informationweek.com/news/showArticle.jhtml?articleID=197700789 http://www.informationweek.com/news/showArticle.jhtml?articleID=197800480 http://gyaku.jp/en/index.php?cmd=contentviewpid=000112 http://desktoplinux.com/news/NS4958455863.html -- -Mark Wieder [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: XP and Vista question
Mark Wieder wrote: The end may draweth nigh: http://www.informationweek.com/news/showArticle.jhtml?articleID=197700789 http://www.informationweek.com/news/showArticle.jhtml?articleID=197800480 http://gyaku.jp/en/index.php?cmd=contentviewpid=000112 http://desktoplinux.com/news/NS4958455863.html -- Those articles really did make my weekend. Thanks very much Mark! Hopefully, Microsoft not only shot themselves in the foot with Vista, but the bullet hit something slightly more precious on its way down! Onward Christian soldiers! Bob ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: XP and Vista question
Kay C Lan wrote: Was falling into that same dream that Vista had ended piracy and that would bring the PC world to a watershed moment of deciding to Buy or go Unix. Was bought back to reality just yesterday when talking to a work colleague who mentioned he was on Vista. The first 'real' Vista user I've met. He was enjoying it and only had a couple of compatibility problems. When I asked him if he thought it was going to markedly reduce the piracy in the local computer malls, he just smiled. Turns out he's been using a pirated copy of Vista since day 1! So apart from the 'developers' on this List who I assume are using legal copies, 100% of the 'home users' I've met using Vista are using Pirated copies (you can argue anything with statistics;-) -- Oh dear, that IS bad news. Of course, it all depends on what Microsoft decide to do about it in the future. Will they allow pirating of Vista or not? All they have to do is to get in through the Internet and disable it - and they can probably do it legally. I know this can happen because I've seen it done with somebody's XP. Of course, the facility in pirating Windows itself says nothing about how easy or difficult it will be to pirate other software under Vista. But I don't suppose it will be too difficult for those with the expertise and motivation to achieve it. Perhaps in the end, though, this is a healthier situation for Linux. People need to migrate because Linux is a better system than Windows, not only because it is cheaper. So now the Linux people have to try even harder to prove its superiority beyond doubt. Personally, the fact that I am totally free of all those horrible viruses and spyware is sufficient for me to prefer Linux, and I doubt whether the new sooper dooper security arrangements of Vista will be sufficient to hold back the flood for long. Bob ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: XP and Vista question
On 3/4/07, Bob Warren [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Such pirating will probably come to an end with the protective mechanisms of Windows Vista. (Personally, I think that this marks the beginning of the end of Microsoft. Allowing a certain amount of piracy was part of the secret of their success, related to the essential characteristic of wide distribution and fame.) Was falling into that same dream that Vista had ended piracy and that would bring the PC world to a watershed moment of deciding to Buy or go Unix. Was bought back to reality just yesterday when talking to a work colleague who mentioned he was on Vista. The first 'real' Vista user I've met. He was enjoying it and only had a couple of compatibility problems. When I asked him if he thought it was going to markedly reduce the piracy in the local computer malls, he just smiled. Turns out he's been using a pirated copy of Vista since day 1! So apart from the 'developers' on this List who I assume are using legal copies, 100% of the 'home users' I've met using Vista are using Pirated copies (you can argue anything with statistics;-) ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: XP and Vista question
In my own dream, I did it too, and a few days later MS showed up with a writ summoning me to court for my crimes and misdemeanors. I publicized the event massively. There was a huge groundswell of support which bought me the most expensive lawyers in the EC, and when the case came to trial it was thrown out amid massive publicity, on the grounds that it was an attempt to enforce unlawful and anti-competitive post sales restrictions on use. The Commission published press releases applauding the result. I was famous. The result was that Eulas everywhere in the EC had to be rewritten and the rights of the purchaser to use the software as he liked were publicly affirmed. In my dream I now seemed to have become clairvoyant, because I could see all the way to California and Seattle. I saw Bill Gates and Steve Jobs on the phone to each other. Jobs was saying to Gates why did you have to prosecute the bum, you knew you would lose, and now you have ruined it for all of us. Then I woke up. On Tuesday 06 March 2007 04:27, Richard Gaskin wrote: On the question of whether it's technically possible to run Vista under virtualization, this author at Macworld.com of course never actually tried, but notes that he had a dream about doing so, and reports what happened in that dream: http://www.macworld.com/2007/02/firstlooks/vistamac/index.php ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: XP and Vista question
Peter, Sorry to interrupt your dream, but according to this page: http://www.parallels.com/en/products/desktop/os/ Running Vista under Parallels is supported. -Chipp On 3/6/07, Peter Alcibiades [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In my own dream, I did it too, and a few days later MS showed up with a writ summoning me to court for my crimes and misdemeanors. I publicized the event massively. There was a huge groundswell of support which bought me the most expensive lawyers in the EC, and when the case came to trial it was thrown out amid massive publicity, on the grounds that it was an attempt to enforce unlawful and anti-competitive post sales restrictions on use. The Commission published press releases applauding the result. I was famous. The result was that Eulas everywhere in the EC had to be rewritten and the rights of the purchaser to use the software as he liked were publicly affirmed. In my dream I now seemed to have become clairvoyant, because I could see all the way to California and Seattle. I saw Bill Gates and Steve Jobs on the phone to each other. Jobs was saying to Gates why did you have to prosecute the bum, you knew you would lose, and now you have ruined it for all of us. Then I woke up. ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: XP and Vista question
I wonder how long MS will continue to sell XP home and pro now that Vista is out... I guess there is still gobs of old equipment out there that is not up to vista that could still be upgraded to XP and make some $$, so i hope it will be around a while... cheers, jeff Jeffrey Reynolds ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: XP and Vista question
Chipp wrote: Bob, There's no way Mac can be #1 unless they allow others to sell hardware. Too many companies can't rely on a single-source hardware solution. Hey Chipp, I think you're getting me mixed up with Joe. Leaving hopes on one side, my own prediction for the state of the computer world's pecking order within the next few years is: 1. Microsoft 2. Linux (Ubuntu?) 3. Macintosh If the Microsoft market share does (continue to) retract, it'll probably end up being used mainly by the richer sectors of the first-world countries (i.e. a minority of the world's computer users), but even that wouldn't happen overnight. Bob ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: XP and Vista question
On the question of whether it's technically possible to run Vista under virtualization, this author at Macworld.com of course never actually tried, but notes that he had a dream about doing so, and reports what happened in that dream: http://www.macworld.com/2007/02/firstlooks/vistamac/index.php -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Media Corporation ___ [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.FourthWorld.com ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: XP and Vista question
Joe Wilkins wrote: Bob, Thanks for your perspective. Way back in the 80s, when M$ was still doing their DOS thing and Windows was just beginning to emerge as its replacement, I predicted that there would one day be three systems that would dominate the computer world. I believed that Macintosh would be on top of the mountain, that something that the DOS people were contriving and a third whose origin I knew would happen, but hadn't the slightest idea what it would be, would constitute this triumvirate. Of course, the Mac people made some really bad marketing decisions that allowed Gates to claw his way to the top of the heap. My vision of things can still come to pass, baring some more bad decisions, seeing as how the 800 lb. gorilla seems to be in the process of shooting itself in the foot. With a few more countries doing as Brazil has done, and Linux may eventually either challenge or replace Windows. Since Apple has seen fit to make their hardware Linux friendly, this whole thing can really happen - to my delight. I just hope I live to see that come to pass. (smile) Brazil has always been something of an enigma in the eyes of most of us here in the States. It's probably one of the places I'd like to visit one day, having lived in Colombia for a few many years ago. Thanks for being part of this RevList. We appreciate your input. --- What a thoroughly nice reply. Thank you very much Joe. If you do manage to visit Brazil one day, come to Santa Catarina Island (Florianopolis). You'll never regret it. Best regards, Bob ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: XP and Vista question
You can count on it! Thanks for the suggestion. Joe Wilkins On Mar 4, 2007, at 10:44 AM, Bob Warren wrote: Joe Wilkins wrote: Bob, Thanks for your perspective. Way back in the 80s, when M$ was still doing their DOS thing and Windows was just beginning to emerge as its replacement, I predicted that there would one day be three systems that would dominate the computer world. I believed that Macintosh would be on top of the mountain, that something that the DOS people were contriving and a third whose origin I knew would happen, but hadn't the slightest idea what it would be, would constitute this triumvirate. Of course, the Mac people made some really bad marketing decisions that allowed Gates to claw his way to the top of the heap. My vision of things can still come to pass, baring some more bad decisions, seeing as how the 800 lb. gorilla seems to be in the process of shooting itself in the foot. With a few more countries doing as Brazil has done, and Linux may eventually either challenge or replace Windows. Since Apple has seen fit to make their hardware Linux friendly, this whole thing can really happen - to my delight. I just hope I live to see that come to pass. (smile) Brazil has always been something of an enigma in the eyes of most of us here in the States. It's probably one of the places I'd like to visit one day, having lived in Colombia for a few many years ago. Thanks for being part of this RevList. We appreciate your input. --- What a thoroughly nice reply. Thank you very much Joe. If you do manage to visit Brazil one day, come to Santa Catarina Island (Florianopolis). You'll never regret it. Best regards, Bob ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: XP and Vista question
Bob, There's no way Mac can be #1 unless they allow others to sell hardware. Too many companies can't rely on a single-source hardware solution. I spent a good bit of time messing around with Vista today on my Dad's computer. Setting up printers, network connections, firewalls, etc.. It appears while Vista is still not yet ready for primetime, it is a worthwhile effort, and I imagine will be the standard in the near future. Especially, considering you can only buy machines with Vista (not XP) on them at retail these days. One of the interesting things was the annoying 'allow or deny' dialog. At first it was very disconcerting, but then I started remembering the same sort of dialog on Mac, where you had to enter your admin password everytime you wanted to install drivers or tweak a system setting which only admins could. The Macs version, IMO was even more of a hassle as it required entering in a password rather than just clicking an Allow button. Though granted, the password technique appears more secure. I think there are probably more Allow or Deny situations in Vista than on the Mac. Overall, I found Vista a very usable OS-- Allow or Deny not withstanding. ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
RE: XP and Vista question
Am I off-base in my thinking, and should just not worry about XP disappearing in the next couple years? I don't see XP disappearing for quite some time. MS cannot afford to walk away from yesterday's operating system (or even the day before yesterday) - they are in a totally different boat from Apple. Apple doesn't have the incentive (they are incentivized in the opposite direction!) to keep supporting older operating systems - their business model seems totally built around constantly moving their user base forward, making it much more attractive to simply keep buying new hardware from...Apple. Best regards, Lynn Fredricks Worldwide Business Operations Runtime Revolution Ltd http://www.runrev.com ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: XP and Vista question
When one produces a product as good as the Mac, what with the dramatic improvements in speed and capacity, it is actually a service to the customers that they be hurled toward buying something better. I still have three, but could be 5 or 6 if I hadn't given the others away, quite serviceable Macs; and would probably have kept using them, to my own detriment, were it not for the OS changes. Each time I have, somewhat reluctantly, upgraded, the cost of the new system has usually been less than what I paid for the slower, lower capacity previous setup; and I usually recouped the new expense within the year by way of improved productivity. Based on what I have seen in the Window's world, such is much less dramatically observable. So, GO Apple! Joe Wilkins On Mar 4, 2007, at 7:14 PM, Lynn Fredricks wrote: Am I off-base in my thinking, and should just not worry about XP disappearing in the next couple years? I don't see XP disappearing for quite some time. MS cannot afford to walk away from yesterday's operating system (or even the day before yesterday) - they are in a totally different boat from Apple. Apple doesn't have the incentive (they are incentivized in the opposite direction!) to keep supporting older operating systems - their business model seems totally built around constantly moving their user base forward, making it much more attractive to simply keep buying new hardware from...Apple. Best regards, Lynn Fredricks Worldwide Business Operations Runtime Revolution Ltd http://www.runrev.com ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: XP and Vista question
I doubt whether the restrictions on virtualisation are valid and legally enforceable. If you have bought a retail copy of Vista, I believe MS will have no legal authority to tell you what you can and cannot run it on. This is because, at least in the EU, post sales restrictions on use are anti-competitive and thus unenforceable. However, MS can certainly tell you not to run more than one copy at once, because to do that would violate copyright. So if you do run it in virtual mode, that copy must be the only copy. They can also make it detect a virtual environment and refuse to boot, if that is technically possible. But to stop a use purely by post sales restrictions on use, where that use is technically possible - its very dubious. I believe that whatever the EULA says on this is immaterial, not because EULA conditions are not binding. They may be, depending on what they are. But because these particular conditions cannot be binding whether in a EULA or anything else. In the same way, a car company cannot forbid you to use the car you have bought for hire, or to drive in Spain, or to use with tires other than a certain brand. They can of course void your warranty if you do some things which have reasonable bearing on warranties. But they can't forbid it. A CD company cannot make you buy a particular brand of player to be legally able to play their CDs. Tesco cannot force you to use their herbs with the steaks they sell, or only grill them in Tesco pans. Or never share one labelled 'one dinner' between two. And so on. The position is similar with MacOS. I don't believe Apple, purely by a post sales restriction on use, can get enforceable ability to stop you running X on whatever machine you want, as long as you do not violate copyright. There may be other ways in which they can stop you. And they can 'persuade' companies like Parallels not to support virtualisation of X. The same is also true of Office: I believe MS cannot prevent you from running it under Wine, and cannot insist you run it under a copy of Windows. I also believe that when you buy a retail copy of any of these things, you have participated in a sale, and have not met the legal conditions of simply licensing the product. Just as when you buy a steak. No, you didn't license a one time use of that steak, you bought it. If considering getting involved in court proceedings on this one, please take expert legal advice and do research first, don't rely on the above. This is just lay opinion. But also, don't assume without checking that every EULA clause is enforceable in every jurisdiction. They may not be. And just because a company calls it a license, don't assume automatically it is not legally a sale. It may be. Its a minefield out there, and it all needs checking, and you cannot confidently take a supplier's word for what your rights are or are not without making sure he is not pulling a fast one. Peter ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: XP and Vista question
Hi One for the lawyers... I read a lot about this restriction of using some editions of Vista with virtual systems, but is it absolutely clear this use is restricted? The following is the sentence from the EULA that I have seen quoted in many places: “USE WITH VIRTUALIZATION TECHNOLOGIES. You may not use the software installed on the licensed device within a virtual (or otherwise emulated) hardware system.” I've never seen this placed in the wider context of the entire license, but I wonder what the phrase licensed device refers to. Is the device in this case the disk that contains Vista? If so, then it seems clear you can't use it on a virtual system (legal challenges notwithstanding). But the wording sounds to me more like an OEM license, where licensed device is the computer you bought which already had Vista installed. In that case, I don't think it's so different from existing OEM licensing of Windows. Can anyone clear this up? Cheers Dave___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: XP and Vista question
Microsoft owns, sells and ships VirtualPC that includes a copy of XP. How can they say you are not allowed to run it with Vista ( as a licensee, owner, renter, whatever..) ? Is their exclusion principle that you can only run it with their virtualization software? Or only the high-end Vista products? Jim Ault Las Vegas On 3/3/07 1:58 AM, Dave Cragg [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi One for the lawyers... I read a lot about this restriction of using some editions of Vista with virtual systems, but is it absolutely clear this use is restricted? The following is the sentence from the EULA that I have seen quoted in many places: ³USE WITH VIRTUALIZATION TECHNOLOGIES. You may not use the software installed on the licensed device within a virtual (or otherwise emulated) hardware system.² I've never seen this placed in the wider context of the entire license, but I wonder what the phrase licensed device refers to. Is the device in this case the disk that contains Vista? If so, then it seems clear you can't use it on a virtual system (legal challenges notwithstanding). But the wording sounds to me more like an OEM license, where licensed device is the computer you bought which already had Vista installed. In that case, I don't think it's so different from existing OEM licensing of Windows. Can anyone clear this up? ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: XP and Vista question
Luis wrote: A passing suggestion: Try Ubuntu 6.0.6 LTS. It now has installers for proprietary/'non-free' gfx card drivers, which used to be a bugbear withe some distros. If you're looking for a little more eye candy then try Kubuntu. All fits on one CD, and the Synaptic Package Manager is a breeze to use, although for the gfx drivers I used Envy from the terminal (Install Envy via Synaptic, logout, do a Ctrl+Alt+F1 to get to a terminal login. Login, run envy. Does ATI and Nvidia). Running sweet on a 2 year old Dell. Richard wrote: Thanks to a recommendation from Phil Davis, I installed it two months ago and have been quite happy with it. Much simpler and more well integrated than the Red Hat installation I used to use, and cheaper than my copy of Linspire. Right now Ubuntu is my favorite Linux by far. Now if only we can get some of the other distro builders to stop reinventing their wheels and contribute their resources to Ubuntu instead. And when that happens (somewhere between the time pigs fly and when hell freezes over) we'll have to get the Gnome and KDE teams to integrate into a single fully kick-ass window manager. When those two tasks are done, Linux will be well poised to kick Microsoft's butt on the desktop at least as effectively as they've done on the server. My own understanding is helped by a linguistic model. Some time ago people had the idea of taking what they considered to be the best characteristics of the world's languages and rolling them together into a single optimized form, and what emerged was Esperanto. It failed miserably. One reason for this could be the fact that it was not a natural language and that the scientists did not appreciate the complexity of linguistic mechanisms. For example, natural languages are biological products, and as such they are necessarily only half logical. If you asked speakers of Portuguese or Bulgarian to stop wasting their time and to speak another language instead, they would probably get around to doing it when pigs fly or hell freezes over. But asking them to speak a second language is a different matter. When I asked a taxi driver in Amsterdam why everybody's English was so fantastically good, he answered me with a question: What's the use of Dutch? Yet Dutch shows no signs of dying in Holland. No, a natural language (English) has become the second language of the world. This was helped by the fairly large number of native speakers, but above all it was helped by the enormously diverse distribution in different places. (More people speak Chinese for example, but the distribution of Chinese extends little beyond China itself.) Ubuntu is perhaps poised to become the world's second operating system, and it is quite well distributed already. The Ubuntu company (Canonical) have the professionalism, the ethics and the clout. Does that mean that Red Hat, Linspire, Puppy and the KDE interface need to die? Far from it. I see no reason why they should not maintain their followers, their peculiarities, and their dignity, and to continue to make their valuable contributions and innovations. They are doing their thing! Live and let live is the lemma we need to practise in my opinion. The very last thing we want to see is another monster like Microsoft, but such a situation could well arise again if we do not maintain the very mechanisms Linux was designed to neutralize. I'm talking about freedom, openness, diversity (multiple perception), clean competition, ethics, and the like. Talking is easy, particularly since I am not a professional programmer with professional responsibilities. I can do what I like, when I like, without suffering any serious consequences. But even taking into account the much more difficult situation of the professional programmer and the dependency he/she suffers, there is something of a drug culture associated with the continuing usage of Windows and the enormous reluctance to change for the better. Yes, Microsoft gained a monopoly because Windows was the first and only operating system for PCs on the market, but that does not totally explain the momentum of their monopoly nowadays. Drugs pretend to be our friend, but in fact they are unfailingly our enemy, and in they end they can even kill us. Yet when we are dependent on a drug, even if we have the motivation to change in some way, actually doing it is the most difficult thing in the world, unless we have some idea of how to achieve it. In the final analysis, I think the general secret in all of this is to stop thinking in terms of either/or and to start thinking in terms of both-and. Nobody needs to leave Windows entirely in order to use Linux, so why use the cold turkey method in alleviating oneself of this drug we call Windows? No, keep it around to do the little things it is really useful for (i.e. exploit it), but
Re: XP and Vista question
Peter Alcibiades wrote: If you have bought a retail copy of Vista, I believe MS will have no legal authority to tell you what you can and cannot run it on. This is because, at least in the EU, post sales restrictions on use are anti-competitive and thus unenforceable. However, MS can certainly tell you not to run more than one copy at once, because to do that would violate copyright. So if you do run it in virtual mode, that copy must be the only copy. They can also make it detect a virtual environment and refuse to boot, if that is technically possible. Well, that's the deal, I think. I believe (but am not certain) that all Parallels users will have very similar hardware configurations, since the hardware is emulated and identical in every installation. The hardware configuration is what MS uses to identify your machine when it calls home for validation. All they need to do is check whether your hardware is the same as that shipped by Parallels and refuse to validate your copy. Without validation, Vista won't run. Speculation, of course, I don't have a copy yet. I did read somewhere though that there are no software incompatibilies with installing home versions of Vista on Parallels; it works fine. The restriction is in the license, not the capability. -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | [EMAIL PROTECTED] HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: XP and Vista question
Good morning, Jim, Obviously, whatever makes them the most money and their customers the most discomfort. (smile) Joe Wilkins On Mar 3, 2007, at 8:24 AM, Jim Ault wrote: Microsoft owns, sells and ships VirtualPC that includes a copy of XP. How can they say you are not allowed to run it with Vista ( as a licensee, owner, renter, whatever..) ? Is their exclusion principle that you can only run it with their virtualization software? Or only the high-end Vista products? Jim Ault Las Vegas On 3/3/07 1:58 AM, Dave Cragg [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi One for the lawyers... I read a lot about this restriction of using some editions of Vista with virtual systems, but is it absolutely clear this use is restricted? The following is the sentence from the EULA that I have seen quoted in many places: “USE WITH VIRTUALIZATION TECHNOLOGIES. You may not use the software installed on the licensed device within a virtual (or otherwise emulated) hardware system.” I've never seen this placed in the wider context of the entire license, but I wonder what the phrase licensed device refers to. Is the device in this case the disk that contains Vista? If so, then it seems clear you can't use it on a virtual system (legal challenges notwithstanding). But the wording sounds to me more like an OEM license, where licensed device is the computer you bought which already had Vista installed. In that case, I don't think it's so different from existing OEM licensing of Windows. Can anyone clear this up? ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: XP and Vista question
I said: The very last thing we want to see is another monster like Microsoft, but such a situation could well arise again if we do not maintain the very mechanisms Linux was designed to neutralize. -- That would have read more correctly as: The very last thing we want to see is another monster like Microsoft, but such a situation could well arise again if we do not maintain the neutralizing mechanisms that Linux was designed to promote. Bob ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: XP and Vista question
Bob, I'm going to ask an apparently stupid question. Since I've been a diehard Mac user since the Lisa, and it has always let me get so much of my work done that I never even thought about looking at anything else, will you please, as succinctly as possible, let us know how this thing called Linux, in all of it's various flavors? works. How can something as enormous as this potentially is, be coordinated to the point that something truly useful emerges? I find it pretty bewildering, and cannot see how it can fit into my computing life. Keep in mind that I was over 50 when I undertook the mastering of a new tool and didn't even know what a k was at that point. Many TIA, Joe Wilkins On Mar 3, 2007, at 8:33 AM, Bob Warren wrote: Luis wrote: A passing suggestion: Try Ubuntu 6.0.6 LTS. It now has installers for proprietary/'non-free' gfx card drivers, which used to be a bugbear withe some distros. If you're looking for a little more eye candy then try Kubuntu. All fits on one CD, and the Synaptic Package Manager is a breeze to use, although for the gfx drivers I used Envy from the terminal (Install Envy via Synaptic, logout, do a Ctrl+Alt+F1 to get to a terminal login. Login, run envy. Does ATI and Nvidia). Running sweet on a 2 year old Dell. Richard wrote: Thanks to a recommendation from Phil Davis, I installed it two months ago and have been quite happy with it. Much simpler and more well integrated than the Red Hat installation I used to use, and cheaper than my copy of Linspire. Right now Ubuntu is my favorite Linux by far. Now if only we can get some of the other distro builders to stop reinventing their wheels and contribute their resources to Ubuntu instead. And when that happens (somewhere between the time pigs fly and when hell freezes over) we'll have to get the Gnome and KDE teams to integrate into a single fully kick-ass window manager. When those two tasks are done, Linux will be well poised to kick Microsoft's butt on the desktop at least as effectively as they've done on the server. My own understanding is helped by a linguistic model. Some time ago people had the idea of taking what they considered to be the best characteristics of the world's languages and rolling them together into a single optimized form, and what emerged was Esperanto. It failed miserably. One reason for this could be the fact that it was not a natural language and that the scientists did not appreciate the complexity of linguistic mechanisms. For example, natural languages are biological products, and as such they are necessarily only half logical. If you asked speakers of Portuguese or Bulgarian to stop wasting their time and to speak another language instead, they would probably get around to doing it when pigs fly or hell freezes over. But asking them to speak a second language is a different matter. When I asked a taxi driver in Amsterdam why everybody's English was so fantastically good, he answered me with a question: What's the use of Dutch? Yet Dutch shows no signs of dying in Holland. No, a natural language (English) has become the second language of the world. This was helped by the fairly large number of native speakers, but above all it was helped by the enormously diverse distribution in different places. (More people speak Chinese for example, but the distribution of Chinese extends little beyond China itself.) Ubuntu is perhaps poised to become the world's second operating system, and it is quite well distributed already. The Ubuntu company (Canonical) have the professionalism, the ethics and the clout. Does that mean that Red Hat, Linspire, Puppy and the KDE interface need to die? Far from it. I see no reason why they should not maintain their followers, their peculiarities, and their dignity, and to continue to make their valuable contributions and innovations. They are doing their thing! Live and let live is the lemma we need to practise in my opinion. The very last thing we want to see is another monster like Microsoft, but such a situation could well arise again if we do not maintain the very mechanisms Linux was designed to neutralize. I'm talking about freedom, openness, diversity (multiple perception), clean competition, ethics, and the like. Talking is easy, particularly since I am not a professional programmer with professional responsibilities. I can do what I like, when I like, without suffering any serious consequences. But even taking into account the much more difficult situation of the professional programmer and the dependency he/she suffers, there is something of a drug culture associated with the continuing usage of Windows and the enormous reluctance to change for the better. Yes, Microsoft gained a monopoly because Windows was the first and only operating
Re: XP and Vista question
Joe wrote: Bob, I'm going to ask an apparently stupid question. Since I've been a diehard Mac user since the Lisa, and it has always let me get so much of my work done that I never even thought about looking at anything else, will you please, as succinctly as possible, let us know how this thing called Linux, in all of it's various flavors? works. How can something as enormous as this potentially is, be coordinated to the point that something truly useful emerges? I find it pretty bewildering, and cannot see how it can fit into my computing life. Keep in mind that I was over 50 when I undertook the mastering of a new tool and didn't even know what a k was at that point. Hi Joe! No, that's not a stupid question, and even at the age of 62 I'm not sure I know how to answer you adequately, but I'll try. If I didn't live in Brazil where economic life is difficult, it is possible that I would have bought myself a Macintosh and never looked back. But because of the expense, the general public never use Macs in Brazil, only PCs. What's more, Windows and accompanying software are invariably pirated, not on account of the inherent dishonesty of Brazilians, but because it has been the only way that they could participate in computer usage: almost nobody in Brazil has even 10% of the money required to use software legally. Such pirating will probably come to an end with the protective mechanisms of Windows Vista. (Personally, I think that this marks the beginning of the end of Microsoft. Allowing a certain amount of piracy was part of the secret of their success, related to the essential characteristic of wide distribution and fame.) So in countries that are not rich, the use of Linux - the only cheap alternative - becomes not so much an option as a necessity. The Linux operating system has now been adopted officially by the Brazilian government. Linux is what it is, and we need to deal with it. When faced with a question that appears to be enormously complex, we often feel intimidated. But there is sometimes a simple answer. What I tried to point out in my post is that from a personal point of view we don't need to solve the Linux problem at all, we just need to back the apparent winner among the distros (Ubuntu) and to be happy with that. That is, unless the situation changes and another leader emerges later on. I don't know how this thing called Linux, in all of its various flavours, works. Nor do I want to know. I don't have the brains to deal with the enormous variety and technical complexity presented by around 300 different distributions of the Linux system. But I do need to be practical in my programming, and catering for usage on more than one platform or distribution at a time is a very difficult thing to do. If it involves the usage of the peculiarities of the computer's file system to any real degree, the idea of cross-distro or cross-platform programming becomes totally unviable. If you live in the US and you are happy with your Macintosh, and your programs have a satisfactory market, why the hell should you start mucking about with Linux? I cannot think of any good reason, except perhaps curiosity, and the fact that you can do it very easily through the use of a Live CD or pendrive. Linux exists as a direct response to the sins committed by Microsoft throughout the world, and no other reason. The neutralizing effect of its diversity is also a direct consequence of the behaviour of Microsoft. The fact that it is not a single company and that it belongs to everybody but nobody in particular is the only way that it can defend itself against annihilation. It was the only answer, and it is certainly a very good one. Succinctly, something truly useful has emerged: Ubuntu. Regards, Bob ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: XP and Vista question
He he!! Thanks for that, after the first read I thought 'Set your Linux to stun! Cheers, Luis. On 3 Mar 2007, at 17:25, Bob Warren wrote: I said: The very last thing we want to see is another monster like Microsoft, but such a situation could well arise again if we do not maintain the very mechanisms Linux was designed to neutralize. -- That would have read more correctly as: The very last thing we want to see is another monster like Microsoft, but such a situation could well arise again if we do not maintain the neutralizing mechanisms that Linux was designed to promote. Bob ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: XP and Vista question
Bob, Thanks for your perspective. Way back in the 80s, when M$ was still doing their DOS thing and Windows was just beginning to emerge as its replacement, I predicted that there would one day be three systems that would dominate the computer world. I believed that Macintosh would be on top of the mountain, that something that the DOS people were contriving and a third whose origin I knew would happen, but hadn't the slightest idea what it would be, would constitute this triumvirate. Of course, the Mac people made some really bad marketing decisions that allowed Gates to claw his way to the top of the heap. My vision of things can still come to pass, baring some more bad decisions, seeing as how the 800 lb. gorilla seems to be in the process of shooting itself in the foot. With a few more countries doing as Brazil has done, and Linux may eventually either challenge or replace Windows. Since Apple has seen fit to make their hardware Linux friendly, this whole thing can really happen - to my delight. I just hope I live to see that come to pass. (smile) Brazil has always been something of an enigma in the eyes of most of us here in the States. It's probably one of the places I'd like to visit one day, having lived in Colombia for a few many years ago. Thanks for being part of this RevList. We appreciate your input. Joe Wilkins On Mar 3, 2007, at 11:19 AM, Bob Warren wrote: Joe wrote: Bob, I'm going to ask an apparently stupid question. Since I've been a diehard Mac user since the Lisa, and it has always let me get so much of my work done that I never even thought about looking at anything else, will you please, as succinctly as possible, let us know how this thing called Linux, in all of it's various flavors? works. How can something as enormous as this potentially is, be coordinated to the point that something truly useful emerges? I find it pretty bewildering, and cannot see how it can fit into my computing life. Keep in mind that I was over 50 when I undertook the mastering of a new tool and didn't even know what a k was at that point. Hi Joe! No, that's not a stupid question, and even at the age of 62 I'm not sure I know how to answer you adequately, but I'll try. If I didn't live in Brazil where economic life is difficult, it is possible that I would have bought myself a Macintosh and never looked back. But because of the expense, the general public never use Macs in Brazil, only PCs. What's more, Windows and accompanying software are invariably pirated, not on account of the inherent dishonesty of Brazilians, but because it has been the only way that they could participate in computer usage: almost nobody in Brazil has even 10% of the money required to use software legally. Such pirating will probably come to an end with the protective mechanisms of Windows Vista. (Personally, I think that this marks the beginning of the end of Microsoft. Allowing a certain amount of piracy was part of the secret of their success, related to the essential characteristic of wide distribution and fame.) So in countries that are not rich, the use of Linux - the only cheap alternative - becomes not so much an option as a necessity. The Linux operating system has now been adopted officially by the Brazilian government. Linux is what it is, and we need to deal with it. When faced with a question that appears to be enormously complex, we often feel intimidated. But there is sometimes a simple answer. What I tried to point out in my post is that from a personal point of view we don't need to solve the Linux problem at all, we just need to back the apparent winner among the distros (Ubuntu) and to be happy with that. That is, unless the situation changes and another leader emerges later on. I don't know how this thing called Linux, in all of its various flavours, works. Nor do I want to know. I don't have the brains to deal with the enormous variety and technical complexity presented by around 300 different distributions of the Linux system. But I do need to be practical in my programming, and catering for usage on more than one platform or distribution at a time is a very difficult thing to do. If it involves the usage of the peculiarities of the computer's file system to any real degree, the idea of cross-distro or cross-platform programming becomes totally unviable. If you live in the US and you are happy with your Macintosh, and your programs have a satisfactory market, why the hell should you start mucking about with Linux? I cannot think of any good reason, except perhaps curiosity, and the fact that you can do it very easily through the use of a Live CD or pendrive. Linux exists as a direct response to the sins committed by Microsoft throughout the world, and no other reason. The neutralizing effect of its
XP and Vista Question
Joe, go to www.distrowatch.com for more enlightenment. I'm less enthusiastic about Ubuntu than Richard, preferring the Debian that it is based on. Some distributions: When you know what you want: Debian. For beginners - PCLinux For minimalists or those wanting to learn Linux in detail: Slackware For slower machines: Zenwalk or Vector (slackware based) For very slow machines: Fluxbuntu, Puppy or DSL If you want it to look like a mac: Dreamlinux (Brazillian) or Bagheera for KDE on any distro If you like doing things the hard way: Gentoo. If you want to get the results of the hard way but with a short cut: Sabayon. For something completely different: elive Any of them will run Rev just fine. Or as fine as Rev runs on Linux, which is a different story Best books: How Linux Works, by Ward Anything Carla Schroder writes, esp the Cookbook Pocket linux guide from O'Reilly Linux Phrasebook Sobell, Practical Guide (detailed) Peter ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: XP and Vista Question
Thank you Peter, my future free time has just expired! (smile) Joe Wilkins On Mar 3, 2007, at 3:50 PM, Peter Alcibiades wrote: Joe, go to www.distrowatch.com for more enlightenment. I'm less enthusiastic about Ubuntu than Richard, preferring the Debian that it is based on. Some distributions: When you know what you want: Debian. For beginners - PCLinux For minimalists or those wanting to learn Linux in detail: Slackware For slower machines: Zenwalk or Vector (slackware based) For very slow machines: Fluxbuntu, Puppy or DSL If you want it to look like a mac: Dreamlinux (Brazillian) or Bagheera for KDE on any distro If you like doing things the hard way: Gentoo. If you want to get the results of the hard way but with a short cut: Sabayon. For something completely different: elive Any of them will run Rev just fine. Or as fine as Rev runs on Linux, which is a different story Best books: How Linux Works, by Ward Anything Carla Schroder writes, esp the Cookbook Pocket linux guide from O'Reilly Linux Phrasebook Sobell, Practical Guide (detailed) Peter ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
XP and Vista question
Given that Microsoft will discontinue support for WinXP at some point in the future, what does this mean for those who setup to use virtuals (Boot Camp, Parallels, etc)? It sounds like Vista will be too demanding to be used on a Mac in a virtual environ. Since authorization is required for any install, it seems like the future will be that we are forced to use pirated copies since MS will want to force the upgrade to Vista. One of my goals in my two businesses is to use the Parallels solution, but this may have a short life expectancy. Am I off-base in my thinking, and should just not worry about XP disappearing in the next couple years? Jim Ault Las Vegas ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: XP and Vista question
Jim Ault wrote: Given that Microsoft will discontinue support for WinXP at some point in the future, what does this mean for those who setup to use virtuals (Boot Camp, Parallels, etc)? Though I'm just hoping, I imagine that Apple will be making Boot Camp compatible with Windows Vista. It just may take a little time. Derek Bump Dreamscape Software http://www.dreamscapesoftware.com/ ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: XP and Vista question
Jim, My sources tell me that Vista runs fine under Boot Camp. It's just not officially certified yet. Since Boot Camp is a true dual-boot solution, you would be running Vista natively, so there shouldn't be any trouble. Reportedly, Parallels Desktop now supports Vista officially. I found a good mini-review here: http://www.winplanet.com/article/3480-.htm I don't think we'll have to worry about Vista support on Apple hardware going forward. Regards, Devin On Mar 2, 2007, at 10:29 AM, Jim Ault wrote: Given that Microsoft will discontinue support for WinXP at some point in the future, what does this mean for those who setup to use virtuals (Boot Camp, Parallels, etc)? It sounds like Vista will be too demanding to be used on a Mac in a virtual environ. Since authorization is required for any install, it seems like the future will be that we are forced to use pirated copies since MS will want to force the upgrade to Vista. One of my goals in my two businesses is to use the Parallels solution, but this may have a short life expectancy. Am I off-base in my thinking, and should just not worry about XP disappearing in the next couple years? Jim Ault Las Vegas ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution Devin Asay Humanities Technology and Research Support Center Brigham Young University ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: XP and Vista question
On Fri, 02 Mar 2007 09:29:18 -0800, Jim Ault wrote: Given that Microsoft will discontinue support for WinXP at some point in the future, what does this mean for those who setup to use virtuals (Boot Camp, Parallels, etc)? It sounds like Vista will be too demanding to be used on a Mac in a virtual environ. Since authorization is required for any install, it seems like the future will be that we are forced to use pirated copies since MS will want to force the upgrade to Vista. Actually it's kind of worse than that. Microsoft does not allow any of the Basic or Home versions to be used in virtualilzed environments. You need to purchase the Business or Ultimate version to allow for that (BTW, they're getting a lot of heat for that, which they *should* IMHO). As to being too demanding, it really isn't. I was running Vista RC 1 in Parallels before the official release on my MacBook Pro and it was running pretty well. One of my goals in my two businesses is to use the Parallels solution, but this may have a short life expectancy. Am I off-base in my thinking, and should just not worry about XP disappearing in the next couple years? I'd figure it's more like 4-5 years at least - according to reviews and personal experience, Vista just doesn't have enough going for it to make people upgrade. New computers, of course, will come with Vista by default, but existing XP computers may not be upgraded to Vista for a long time. Just my 2 cents... Ken Ray Sons of Thunder Software, Inc. Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Web Site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/ ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: XP and Vista question
Ken Ray wrote: Microsoft does not allow any of the Basic or Home versions to be used in virtualilzed environments. You need to purchase the Business or Ultimate version to allow for that (BTW, they're getting a lot of heat for that, which they *should* IMHO). Disappointing, but sadly not surprising. I've never seen a company work so hard to piss people off -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Media Corporation ___ [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.FourthWorld.com ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: XP and Vista question
On 03/02/2007 at 1:28 PM, Ken Ray [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Actually it's kind of worse than that. Microsoft does not allow any of the Basic or Home versions to be used in virtualilzed environments. You need to purchase the Business or Ultimate version to allow for that (BTW, they're getting a lot of heat for that, which they *should* IMHO). I love running virtual machines too, but how is this any different than what Apple is doing? I have discussed virtialization of OS X with representatives of Parallels. Their response is that they have the technology to do it but Apple just won't let them. If Apple can make a business decision to control virtialization of their OS, why can MS not do the same? I understand that Apple is a smaller company trying to increase market share -for hardware-, but they are doing so by making someone elses product work with their product. In all fairness, both companies have the legal right to prevent their product from working on a competitive architecture IMHO. Roger Eller [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: XP and Vista question
On Fri, 2 Mar 2007 14:09:48 -0500, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 03/02/2007 at 1:28 PM, Ken Ray [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Actually it's kind of worse than that. Microsoft does not allow any of the Basic or Home versions to be used in virtualilzed environments. You need to purchase the Business or Ultimate version to allow for that (BTW, they're getting a lot of heat for that, which they *should* IMHO). I love running virtual machines too, but how is this any different than what Apple is doing? I have discussed virtialization of OS X with representatives of Parallels. Their response is that they have the technology to do it but Apple just won't let them. If Apple can make a business decision to control virtialization of their OS, why can MS not do the same? Well, IMHO, it's because of precedent. Apple has NEVER allowed virtualization of their OS, or even approved emulation (you always needed a ROM from a purchased machine). Microsoft, on the other hand, has never said anything about virtualization or emulation of their OS until Vista (AFAIK), and from the articles I've read there's no real reason Microsoft should allow one form of Vista and not another, although they state: For production machines and everyday usage, virtualization is a fairly new technology, and one which we think is not mature enough for broad consumer adoption. Today, customers using this technology are primarily business customers addressing application compatibility needs or technology enthusiasts. For everyday usage, Windows Vista Home and Home Premium cannot be installed in any virtual machine technology, but Business and Ultimate versions can. Each virtual installation of Windows requires a new license just as it did for Windows XP. For more on this, take a look at these articles: http://weblog.infoworld.com/virtualization/archives/2006/10/the_truth_about.html http://www.virtualizationdaily.com/archives/39_the-truth-about-vista-virtualization-licensing.html. ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: XP and Vista question
Ken Ray wrote: I'd figure it's more like 4-5 years at least - according to reviews and personal experience, Vista just doesn't have enough going for it to make people upgrade. New computers, of course, will come with Vista by default, but existing XP computers may not be upgraded to Vista for a long time. Not only that, but I've talked to several people who say they will refuse to install Vista for any reason because of its draconian DRM scheme. One guy told me, Why should I do an expensive upgrade that will just limit the way I can use my computer? I expect the uptake will be slower than usual. -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | [EMAIL PROTECTED] HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: XP and Vista question
Roger.E.Eller wrote; On 03/02/2007 at 1:28 PM, Ken Ray kray at sonsothunder.com wrote: Actually it's kind of worse than that. Microsoft does not allow any of the Basic or Home versions to be used in virtualilzed environments. You need to purchase the Business or Ultimate version to allow for that (BTW, they're getting a lot of heat for that, which they *should* IMHO). I love running virtual machines too, but how is this any different than what Apple is doing? At least Apple has a business viability reason: Apple sells computers, so if someone can run OS X on a non-Apple computer they lose a lot of money. But Microsoft doesn't sell computers, only operating systems. It doesn't affect them in any way whether I run my legally-purchased copy of Windows on a box made by Dell, or Gateway, Apple, or build my own with parts from Fry's. Microsoft makes the same amount of money no matter where I run the OS. I guess now that the dozens of class-action suits against MS have slowed down the company is feeling lonely and acting out to get attention. :) -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Media Corporation ___ [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.FourthWorld.com ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: XP and Vista question
Fantastic news. I just ordered a Home Version of XP to use with Parallels. Mark On Mar 2, 2007, at 10:48 AM, Richard Gaskin wrote: Ken Ray wrote: Microsoft does not allow any of the Basic or Home versions to be used in virtualilzed environments. You need to purchase the Business or Ultimate version to allow for that (BTW, they're getting a lot of heat for that, which they *should* IMHO). Disappointing, but sadly not surprising. I've never seen a company work so hard to piss people off -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Media Corporation ___ [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.FourthWorld.com ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution Many of life's failures are people who did not realize how close they were to success when they gave up. -Thomas Edison ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: XP and Vista question
H. Is it just OEM Home versions that aren't supported? Looking below it would seem that Home versions are supported. Mark From the Parallels site: Supported Guest Operating Systems Microsoft Windows Guest Operating Systems: • Windows Vista Business • Windows Vista Enterprise • Windows Vista Ultimate • Windows 2003 Standard Edition SP0 • Windows 2003 Standard Edition SP1 • Windows 2003 Enterprise Edition SP0 • Windows 2003 Enterprise Edition SP1 • Windows 2003 Web Edition SP0 • Windows 2003 Web Edition SP1 • Windows XP SP2 Professional • Windows XP SP2 Home • Windows XP SP1 Professional • Windows XP SP1 Home • Windows XP SP0 Professional • Windows XP SP0 Home • Windows 2000 Professional Edition SP4 • Windows 2000 Server SP4 • Windows 2000 Advanced Server SP4 • Windows NT Workstation 4.0 SP6 • Windows NT Server 4.0 SP6 • Windows ME • Windows 98 • Windows 95 • Windows 3.11 • Windows 3.1 On Mar 2, 2007, at 10:48 AM, Richard Gaskin wrote: Ken Ray wrote: Microsoft does not allow any of the Basic or Home versions to be used in virtualilzed environments. You need to purchase the Business or Ultimate version to allow for that (BTW, they're getting a lot of heat for that, which they *should* IMHO). Disappointing, but sadly not surprising. I've never seen a company work so hard to piss people off -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Media Corporation ___ [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.FourthWorld.com ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution Many of life's failures are people who did not realize how close they were to success when they gave up. -Thomas Edison ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: XP and Vista question
J. Landman Gay wrote: Ken Ray wrote: I'd figure it's more like 4-5 years at least - according to reviews and personal experience, Vista just doesn't have enough going for it to make people upgrade. New computers, of course, will come with Vista by default, but existing XP computers may not be upgraded to Vista for a long time. Not only that, but I've talked to several people who say they will refuse to install Vista for any reason because of its draconian DRM scheme. One guy told me, Why should I do an expensive upgrade that will just limit the way I can use my computer? I expect the uptake will be slower than usual. It's tragic for the entire computing world that the Linux community can't get its collective act together. It can and should replace Windows, but with such a dizzying variety of distros most users just walk. Some day, some day And when that day happens, when the Linux community standardizes on one distro universally regarded as THE consumer distro, Linux will take half of Microsoft's market share in under five years. But with all of the attitudes preciousness surrounding each of the Linux distros, I can't begin to guess when that day will come. -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Media Corporation ___ [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.FourthWorld.com ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: XP and Vista question
On Fri, 2 Mar 2007 11:32:57 -0800, Mark Swindell wrote: H. Is it just OEM Home versions that aren't supported? Looking below it would seem that Home versions are supported. Mark From the Parallels site: Supported Guest Operating Systems Microsoft Windows Guest Operating Systems: ∙ Windows Vista Business ∙ Windows Vista Enterprise ∙ Windows Vista Ultimate No, you see in your list you don't have Windows Vista Home Basic or Windows Vista Home Premium - these are not supported. ∙ Windows 2003 Standard Edition SP0 ∙ Windows 2003 Standard Edition SP1 ∙ Windows 2003 Enterprise Edition SP0 ∙ Windows 2003 Enterprise Edition SP1 ∙ Windows 2003 Web Edition SP0 ∙ Windows 2003 Web Edition SP1 ∙ Windows XP SP2 Professional ∙ Windows XP SP2 Home ∙ Windows XP SP1 Professional ∙ Windows XP SP1 Home ∙ Windows XP SP0 Professional ∙ Windows XP SP0 Home ∙ Windows 2000 Professional Edition SP4 ∙ Windows 2000 Server SP4 ∙ Windows 2000 Advanced Server SP4 ∙ Windows NT Workstation 4.0 SP6 ∙ Windows NT Server 4.0 SP6 ∙ Windows ME ∙ Windows 98 ∙ Windows 95 ∙ Windows 3.11 ∙ Windows 3.1 Ken Ray Sons of Thunder Software, Inc. Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Web Site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/ ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: XP and Vista question
Ok. That's the other maddening thing about the Windows lineup. How many variants can there be? How confusing can it get? Jeez. Mark On Mar 2, 2007, at 1:00 PM, Ken Ray wrote: On Fri, 2 Mar 2007 11:32:57 -0800, Mark Swindell wrote: H. Is it just OEM Home versions that aren't supported? Looking below it would seem that Home versions are supported. Mark From the Parallels site: Supported Guest Operating Systems Microsoft Windows Guest Operating Systems: • Windows Vista Business • Windows Vista Enterprise • Windows Vista Ultimate No, you see in your list you don't have Windows Vista Home Basic or Windows Vista Home Premium - these are not supported. • Windows 2003 Standard Edition SP0 • Windows 2003 Standard Edition SP1 • Windows 2003 Enterprise Edition SP0 • Windows 2003 Enterprise Edition SP1 • Windows 2003 Web Edition SP0 • Windows 2003 Web Edition SP1 • Windows XP SP2 Professional • Windows XP SP2 Home • Windows XP SP1 Professional • Windows XP SP1 Home • Windows XP SP0 Professional • Windows XP SP0 Home • Windows 2000 Professional Edition SP4 • Windows 2000 Server SP4 • Windows 2000 Advanced Server SP4 • Windows NT Workstation 4.0 SP6 • Windows NT Server 4.0 SP6 • Windows ME • Windows 98 • Windows 95 • Windows 3.11 • Windows 3.1 Ken Ray Sons of Thunder Software, Inc. Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Web Site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/ ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution Many of life's failures are people who did not realize how close they were to success when they gave up. -Thomas Edison ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: XP and Vista question
Hiya, A passing suggestion: Try Ubuntu 6.0.6 LTS. It now has installers for proprietary/'non-free' gfx card drivers, which used to be a bugbear withe some distros. If you're looking for a little more eye candy then try Kubuntu. All fits on one CD, and the Synaptic Package Manager is a breeze to use, although for the gfx drivers I used Envy from the terminal (Install Envy via Synaptic, logout, do a Ctrl+Alt+F1 to get to a terminal login. Login, run envy. Does ATI and Nvidia). Running sweet on a 2 year old Dell. Cheers, Luis. On 2 Mar 2007, at 19:39, Richard Gaskin wrote: J. Landman Gay wrote: Ken Ray wrote: I'd figure it's more like 4-5 years at least - according to reviews and personal experience, Vista just doesn't have enough going for it to make people upgrade. New computers, of course, will come with Vista by default, but existing XP computers may not be upgraded to Vista for a long time. Not only that, but I've talked to several people who say they will refuse to install Vista for any reason because of its draconian DRM scheme. One guy told me, Why should I do an expensive upgrade that will just limit the way I can use my computer? I expect the uptake will be slower than usual. It's tragic for the entire computing world that the Linux community can't get its collective act together. It can and should replace Windows, but with such a dizzying variety of distros most users just walk. Some day, some day And when that day happens, when the Linux community standardizes on one distro universally regarded as THE consumer distro, Linux will take half of Microsoft's market share in under five years. But with all of the attitudes preciousness surrounding each of the Linux distros, I can't begin to guess when that day will come. -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Media Corporation ___ [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.FourthWorld.com ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: XP and Vista question
Luis wrote: A passing suggestion: Try Ubuntu 6.0.6 LTS. It now has installers for proprietary/'non-free' gfx card drivers, which used to be a bugbear withe some distros. If you're looking for a little more eye candy then try Kubuntu. All fits on one CD, and the Synaptic Package Manager is a breeze to use, although for the gfx drivers I used Envy from the terminal (Install Envy via Synaptic, logout, do a Ctrl+Alt+F1 to get to a terminal login. Login, run envy. Does ATI and Nvidia). Running sweet on a 2 year old Dell. Thanks to a recommendation from Phil Davis, I installed it two months ago and have been quite happy with it. Much simpler and more well integrated than the Red Hat installation I used to use, and cheaper than my copy of Linspire. Right now Ubuntu is my favorite Linux by far. Now if only we can get some of the other distro builders to stop reinventing their wheels and contribute their resources to Ubuntu instead. And when that happens (somewhere between the time pigs fly and when hell freezes over) we'll have to get the Gnome and KDE teams to integrate into a single fully kick-ass window manager. When those two tasks are done, Linux will be well poised to kick Microsoft's butt on the desktop at least as effectively as they've done on the server. -- Richard Gaskin Managing Editor, revJournal ___ Rev tips, tutorials and more: http://www.revJournal.com ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: XP and Vista question
On 3/2/07, Richard Gaskin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: At least Apple has a business viability reason: Apple sells computers, so if someone can run OS X on a non-Apple computer they lose a lot of money. Hmmm. Last I saw, Apple sold Operating systems...for even more than what I pay for on Windows (XP Home OEM is $99). I don't think they 'lose money' when they sell their OS. And please everyone, if you want to talk about draconian DRM issues and proprietary (mis)dealings, you HAVE TO include Apple in THAT discussion. For crying out loud, their getting their arses sued off in Europe over the same issue. I'm not defending MS's idiocy, but JEEZ.. fair is fair. Mac fanboys not withstanding. ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: XP and Vista question
Chipp Walters wrote: On 3/2/07, Richard Gaskin ambassador at fourthworld.com wrote: At least Apple has a business viability reason: Apple sells computers, so if someone can run OS X on a non-Apple computer they lose a lot of money. Hmmm. Last I saw, Apple sold Operating systems...for even more than what I pay for on Windows (XP Home OEM is $99). I don't think they 'lose money' when they sell their OS. Not directly, but since it's a key feature of their computers it does represent an opportunity cost. In contrast, Microsoft doesn't sell computers at all. And please everyone, if you want to talk about draconian DRM issues and proprietary (mis)dealings, you HAVE TO include Apple in THAT discussion. For crying out loud, their getting their arses sued off in Europe over the same issue. I hear you loud and clear on that one. I have three MP3 players and none of them are from Apple (more features, lower price). I rarely buy anything through Apple store because they only sell in a proprietary format. Here's the part I don't understand, though: Steve Jobs has publicly said he would prefer to ditch the DRM, but that Apple does it because the record companies insist on it. Why doesn't the EU take the record labels to court? -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Media Corporation ___ [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.FourthWorld.com ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: XP and Vista question
Last I saw, Apple sold Operating systems...for even more than what I pay for on Windows (XP Home OEM is $99). I don't think they 'lose money' when they sell their OS. I think the idea is that they make way more money off of the hardware. They could triple their OS market share, but if it cuts into their hardware sales they might actually be worse off. Obviously they make money off of the OS, but de-coupling it from their hardware would be a net loss. And please everyone, if you want to talk about draconian DRM issues and proprietary (mis)dealings, you HAVE TO include Apple in THAT discussion. For crying out loud, their getting their arses sued off in Europe over the same issue. I'm not defending MS's idiocy, but JEEZ.. fair is fair. Mac fanboys not withstanding. Agreed. It seems there is no good guy in the DRM world, just degrees of evil. Ugh. Please, enough with fanboy though... it's an awfully condescending term for a pretty well-educated crowd, even if you do think some of us are nuts in this particular debate. - Brian ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: XP and Vista question
Chipp, how can you say this? You and I know Jobs has called for the end of DRM on music; the labels made him do it -- and thank god there's no DRM on the OSX installations. And please everyone, if you want to talk about draconian DRM issues and proprietary (mis)dealings, you HAVE TO include Apple in THAT discussion. For crying out loud, their getting their arses sued off in Europe over the same issue. -- stephen barncard s a n f r a n c i s c o - - - - - - - - - - - - ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: XP and Vista question
On 3 Mar 2007, at 00:09, Richard Gaskin wrote: Here's the part I don't understand, though: Steve Jobs has publicly said he would prefer to ditch the DRM, but that Apple does it because the record companies insist on it. Why doesn't the EU take the record labels to court? Because the EU has no problem with DRM, as such, but it does with proprietary DRM such as Apples. The thrust of the case seems to be to force Apple to license its Fairplay DRM to other companies to allow interoperability - currently, songs bought from the iTunes Store are playable only in iTunes and on iPods. The shame of it is that the EU has missed the opportunity to attack DRM in general. Still, on the bright side, the major labels are pretty much condemning themselves to becoming simple catalogue companies, so these things will probably work themselves out anyway. IMO, of course :) Best, Mark ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: XP and Vista question
On 3/2/07, Stephen Barncard [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Chipp, how can you say this? You and I know Jobs has called for the end of DRM on music; the labels made him do it -- and thank god there's no DRM on the OSX installations With Apple, there's no fair playing with other hardware. Buy Apple software, be it music, applications, or even applications which run only on Apple computers, and you're stuck with only Apple hardware. If Jobs is so concerned about the end of DRM, why does he preclude anyone else from playing (or licensing) his DRM? (Or licensing his Mac OSX?) Hey, as I said, Apple's not the only bad guy in this. It's just I can't get over how blindly patriotic Apple users are to the brand. Brian, you're right about the term 'fanboy,' it is condescending, but I don't know what else to use to describe it. Even his latest invention, the iPhone has the same suite of problems. From what I hear, even developers can't write applications for it. Sounds like the old TI-99 game console. I suppose the reason is as Richard said, Apple has a decided economic advantage by locking people into their standard. I understand..capitalism at it's best. But, Stephen, just as long as we aren't fooled into thinking there's any altruistic motives at play. ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: XP and Vista question
Just so no one thinks I *hate* Apple... I own a ton of iPods, my Wife has 2, my daughter 1, and myself 2. They just have the best design and software, hands down of anyone else. I just never purchase music from their store. While I'm not all that comfortable using a Mac, I own 2 of them, including a recent MacBook which IMO is a screaming value at $1249. For the most part, I really like the design as well, plus it works great with Bootcamp and Parallels. I think Apple and Sony still create the best designs for laptops. Though, my Dad recently purchased a new HP Vista laptop today, and he also got a great deal. Intel Core 2 Duo Processor T5200, 1.6GHz, with Centrino Technology, 2GB RAM, 160GB Hard Drive, 17-inch WXGA+ TFT NVidia Display, 8X DVD+/RW Drive, Windows Vista Home Premium -- Also $1249. His is the 'very large' 17 one with full keyboard. Not really portable, but luggable. Tested my apps on it today and for the most part they all worked. It comes preconfigured for the primary user as Admin-- which of course helps. ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
