date:20070906

Re: Wicket libraries

2007-09-06 Thread David Bernard

Hi,

May be, a solution for your case would be to use ivy ant tasks to manage/list
the dependencies of wicket. I don't use Ivy, but it could use maven's
repositories and pom.xml.

I'm not sur it help you, because I don't use it, like lot of, I like maven 2 (dependencies and conventions), and more when I switch to a ant project where I need to read it to understand where are
things, what are there scope (test, compile,...) finding the right jars when I try Seam one year ago was a headhache... but it's off topic.

/david

Robo wrote:

Hello,

Ok, seems removing \wicket-velocity-1.3.0-beta3.jar\ from build path solved
problem with velocity problem. But please explain me why removing package from build path
solves the problem if nowhere in my Hello World code i call for any of the velocity
packages. Is there some duplicities in packages or what?

As to Maven2. It seems that like you in some way force developers to Maven2. :-) In wicket inAction EA there is just mentioned that when using Ant you need to do some work about libraries ant Maven manages it for you. This is too little for serious docs. Please do look into Icefaces free docs. There is steb by step mentioned what libs one need to enable which feature and the libs are added as demo app more feature ritch. Developer needs to understand core functionalities and dependencies. Just After understandig this developer is able to set up Ant project, make project, Eclipse or Netbeans based project and if you want also Maven. :-) But many of the advices about libs was \Use Maven2\ like. If you use it, so use it but do not force me to use it. Explain in some part od book or docs what do I need to run which part of wicket to save my time to go into jars and solve dependencies troubles. Yes Maven solves you some problems with dependecies and also si suitable for small

oject but at big projects it definitely fails. :-/

So please. I know you have lot of work with wicket, and as users can see you
have a good aproach. But please do spend some time to at least write one
chapter about libraries, neede dependencies and so on. If you have licensing
problems just make one clear site with core libs link, dep libs link and
explanation what feature they are enabling and so on. And make some quick start
page in which you explainn dependecies on simple sample app :-)Do not take
alibistic aproach of hiding everithing besides Maven. :-)

Off topic section:
We use Maven for more than one year, also Maven2, in the begining there was
some WoW`s about how Maven Manages project. Really great. But as the project
continued and wee needed to add many not so standard feature to project, like
advanced autorization, very non standard libraries we were forced in the
troubles wchich could be avoided when there was no Maven2. also the project
layout is not the best for our taste. IMHO of cource. Rewriting project build
to ANT took us 6 days, but from that time we saved us a lot of time and nerves
of solving Maven troubles. From that time we just developed, exactly what we
were paid for. Idea of Maven2 is very nice and usefull, but implementation is
kind of tragedy :-/. If I would Alayster Crowley I`d like Maven. Because its
black magic, but I`m just dump developer who is not even to able to hypnotize
someone :-)). as we talked about Ant and Maven2 we really realized the good
sides of Maven. but Ant has simple basic idea with few bilding bl

ks, which when you combine them wiselly works perfectly. YOU do no need to
study Ant. Just use it. In Maven wee need to study Maven, Study black Magic
without success. :-) It remainds me of one Joke. Americans was looking for some
pen, which could be used in space without troubles, They invested 1 000 000 $
in research and finally had one. Russians in the meantime used pencils. :-) (If
you do not like Russians just switch the roles ;-) )

So we found Maven2 usefull with small to mid project with some commonly used
libraries but here it stops. Once you set up good dependencies in Ant you well
understand what library you use and why (maven shields you from this in some
way) and yuo are able to solve troubles with build system fast. We do not
really to care about looking for jars in google. Using Maven it is not that
time saving. It is more confortable I agree, but not worth the time to solve
Maven troubles.

There is lot of buzz about \Convention over configuration\, But if that
convention is badly designed, like Maven project layout, our aproach is flexibility over
convention. (Jsp is convention but then came grrat wicket wchich is typical flexibility
over convention, or good convention over bad convention :-) ). But reality besides Rails
and Wicket I did not see any good convention (over configuration).

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