Re: Single-drive Mac startup disk.

[Brian Rein]

> On Feb 9, 2019, at 3:30 AM, Ian  wrote:
> . . .
> 
> S as I've asked before, how do I mount the disk-based components onto 
> the disk?
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> Ian.

Searching “Bing” with "how to install mac os onto 400k floppy” reveals:

"Making a 400k MFS Boot Floppy on Any Beige Mac” 


It leads to “Working with Macintosh Floppy Disks in the New Millennium” 


Regards,
Brian

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Re: Single-drive Mac startup disk.

[Jonathan Morton]

> On 9 Feb, 2019, at 11:30 am, Ian  wrote:
> 
> Screen comes up, after a short time I get a floppy disk icon with a question 
> mark in it,
> 
> I reckon this means the POST and ROM-hosted diagnostics are complete, and I 
> need to insert a system disk containing the disk-based Operating System (OS) 
> files/components
> 
> Insert a blank 400 k disk,
> 
> System reads drive,
> 
> Screen displays a floppy disk icon with an x in the middle and ejects the 
> disk.

These are good signs.  But we still haven't really established which model of 
Mac you have, and at this level it matters a great deal:

The earliest Macs (eg. 512K) support only a 400K disk format and require very 
early System versions, up to 4.2.

Slightly later models (eg. Plus) support the 800K disk format and System 6.0.x.

That's why we've been asking you to look at the model number on the back panel, 
which is more likely to correspond to the real hardware inside than the artwork 
on the front panel.

 - Jonathan Morton

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Re: Single-drive Mac startup disk.

[Ian]

OK, went back to the Mac,

Power on,

Screen comes up, after a short time I get a floppy disk icon with a 
question mark in it,


>I reckon this means the POST and ROM-hosted diagnostics are complete, 
and I need to insert a system disk containing the disk-based Operating 
System (OS) files/components


Insert a blank 400 k disk,

System reads drive,

Screen displays a floppy disk icon with an x in the middle and ejects 
the disk.


> I reckon this means that the disk has been read, but the disk-based 
OS components have not been detected/read into memory (makes sense, it 
*is* a blank disk).


So.

If all the above is correct, what I need is the disk-based OS 
files/components on the blank disk.


S as I've asked before, how do I mount the disk-based components 
onto the disk?


Cheers,

Ian.

On 07-Feb-19 7:01 PM, 'Keith Jamison' via Vintage Macs wrote:

Hi Ian,

In order to boot, the Mac has to get past that sad Mac icon.

When you switch on and see a floppy disk icon with a question mark, 
that is when you should be able to boot.


Can you provide any further information about the Mac please? 
Specifically which model is it?


Thanks,

Keith.


Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone 



On Wednesday, February 6, 2019, 10:17 pm, Ian  
wrote:


Hi, folks,

I got the Mac at a recycling shop with keyboard, mouse and nothing
else.

I have formatted a single-sided disk on one of my SE30s, but do
not know how to put the system files onto it.

I'm assuming that this is now a 400 kilobyte (400 k) disk

The reset switch at the lower rear left of the case has been
installed, and it works just fine, i.e., it is not jammed on.

If I can get the system files onto my 400 k disk I will be able to
report whether the system is able to boot.

Any ideas?

Cheers,

Ian.

On 07-Feb-19 9:09 AM, 'Keith Jamison' via Vintage Macs wrote:
Hi Ian,

You may also look for a programmer switch on your Mac. This is an
image of what it looks like for a 128, 512 or Plus:

http://facstaff.cbu.edu/~cyelving/PlusSwitch.jpg

And for an SE, SE FDHD and SE/30:

http://www.ccadams.org/se/switch.gif

Later models look like this,


https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/1d/Macintosh_Classic_II_Left_Side_Reset_Interrupt_Switch.jpg

They are located to the rear of the computer, along the left hand
side of the casing, near the bottom. Check also that nothing
appears to be jammed into this area or broken and pushed in.

It could be that the interrupt or programmers switch has been
pressed in and this will keep the computer in a repetitive null
loop where it is unable to complete the start up process.

Can you tell us something about the history of this Mac, please?
Where you got it, what the seller said about it, did you see it
working when you bought it. If there is nothing evident on the
outside, then the next step would be to remove the rear case to
investigate further on the inside. You'll need a long (8 inch
minimum length for the shaft) T15 Torx screwdriver to remove the
screws. A 1/4" Torx bit in a holder won't get in far enough to
engage with the screws. There are very long Torx drivers that were
originally made for Macs but a regular T15 from Home Depot, B
(U.K.) or a similar hardware store will be fine.

Depending on the Mac you have, you'll need to remove five (128,
512, Plus) or four screws (later models).

cheers,

Keith

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Rosebud, 3939, Victoria

Mob' 0402 736 527




Virus-free. www.avg.com

Re: Single-drive Mac startup disk.

[James Kelly]

Welcome to Google!

Hi

thanks for join us!

Reg Google

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Re: Single-drive Mac startup disk.

[Ian]

Hi, Keith,

I'll get onto it tomorrow - cheers, Ian.

On 07-Feb-19 7:01 PM, 'Keith Jamison' via Vintage Macs wrote:

Hi Ian,

In order to boot, the Mac has to get past that sad Mac icon.

When you switch on and see a floppy disk icon with a question mark, 
that is when you should be able to boot.


Can you provide any further information about the Mac please? 
Specifically which model is it?


Thanks,

Keith.


Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone 



On Wednesday, February 6, 2019, 10:17 pm, Ian  
wrote:


Hi, folks,

I got the Mac at a recycling shop with keyboard, mouse and nothing
else.

I have formatted a single-sided disk on one of my SE30s, but do
not know how to put the system files onto it.

I'm assuming that this is now a 400 kilobyte (400 k) disk

The reset switch at the lower rear left of the case has been
installed, and it works just fine, i.e., it is not jammed on.

If I can get the system files onto my 400 k disk I will be able to
report whether the system is able to boot.

Any ideas?

Cheers,

Ian.

On 07-Feb-19 9:09 AM, 'Keith Jamison' via Vintage Macs wrote:
Hi Ian,

You may also look for a programmer switch on your Mac. This is an
image of what it looks like for a 128, 512 or Plus:

http://facstaff.cbu.edu/~cyelving/PlusSwitch.jpg

And for an SE, SE FDHD and SE/30:

http://www.ccadams.org/se/switch.gif

Later models look like this,


https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/1d/Macintosh_Classic_II_Left_Side_Reset_Interrupt_Switch.jpg

They are located to the rear of the computer, along the left hand
side of the casing, near the bottom. Check also that nothing
appears to be jammed into this area or broken and pushed in.

It could be that the interrupt or programmers switch has been
pressed in and this will keep the computer in a repetitive null
loop where it is unable to complete the start up process.

Can you tell us something about the history of this Mac, please?
Where you got it, what the seller said about it, did you see it
working when you bought it. If there is nothing evident on the
outside, then the next step would be to remove the rear case to
investigate further on the inside. You'll need a long (8 inch
minimum length for the shaft) T15 Torx screwdriver to remove the
screws. A 1/4" Torx bit in a holder won't get in far enough to
engage with the screws. There are very long Torx drivers that were
originally made for Macs but a regular T15 from Home Depot, B
(U.K.) or a similar hardware store will be fine.

Depending on the Mac you have, you'll need to remove five (128,
512, Plus) or four screws (later models).

cheers,

Keith

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79 Rosebud Avenue,

Rosebud, 3939, Victoria

Mob' 0402 736 527




Virus-free. www.avg.com




<#DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>
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Re: Single-drive Mac startup disk.

['Keith Jamison' via Vintage Macs]

Hi Ian,
In order to boot, the Mac has to get past that sad Mac icon. 
When you switch on and see a floppy disk icon with a question mark, that is 
when you should be able to boot.

Can you provide any further information about the Mac please? Specifically 
which model is it?
Thanks,
Keith.


Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone


On Wednesday, February 6, 2019, 10:17 pm, Ian  wrote:

 
Hi, folks,
 
I got the Mac at a recycling shop with keyboard, mouse and nothing else.
 
I have formatted a single-sided disk on one of my SE30s, but do not know how to 
put the system files onto it.
 
I'm assuming that this is now a 400 kilobyte (400 k) disk
 
 
The reset switch at the lower rear left of the case has been installed, and it 
works just fine, i.e., it is not jammed on.
 
If I can get the system files onto my 400 k disk I will be able to report 
whether the system is able to boot.
 
 
Any ideas?
 
Cheers,
 
Ian.
 
 On 07-Feb-19 9:09 AM, 'Keith Jamison' via Vintage Macs wrote:
  
 
 Hi Ian, 
  You may also look for a programmer switch on your Mac. This is an image of 
what it looks like for a 128, 512 or Plus: 
  http://facstaff.cbu.edu/~cyelving/PlusSwitch.jpg
  
  And for an SE, SE FDHD and SE/30: 
  http://www.ccadams.org/se/switch.gif
  
  Later models look like this, 
  
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/1d/Macintosh_Classic_II_Left_Side_Reset_Interrupt_Switch.jpg
  
  They are located to the rear of the computer, along the left hand side of the 
casing, near the bottom. Check also that nothing appears to be jammed into this 
area or broken and pushed in. 
  It could be that the interrupt or programmers switch has been pressed in and 
this will keep the computer in a repetitive null loop where it is unable to 
complete the start up process. 
  Can you tell us something about the history of this Mac, please? Where you 
got it, what the seller said about it, did you see it working when you bought 
it. If there is nothing evident on the outside, then the next step would be to 
remove the rear case to investigate further on the inside. You'll need a long 
(8 inch minimum length for the shaft) T15 Torx screwdriver to remove the 
screws. A 1/4" Torx bit in a holder won't get in far enough to engage with the 
screws. There are very long Torx drivers that were originally made for Macs but 
a regular T15 from Home Depot, B (U.K.) or a similar hardware store will be 
fine. 
  Depending on the Mac you have, you'll need to remove five (128, 512, Plus) or 
four screws (later models). 
  cheers, 
  Keith 
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79 Rosebud Avenue,

Rosebud, 3939, Victoria

Mob' 0402 736 527 

|  | Virus-free. www.avg.com  |

 

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Re: Single-drive Mac startup disk.

[Ian]

Hi, folks,

I got the Mac at a recycling shop with keyboard, mouse and nothing else.

I have formatted a single-sided disk on one of my SE30s, but do not know 
how to put the system files onto it.


I'm assuming that this is now a 400 kilobyte (400 k) disk

The reset switch at the lower rear left of the case has been installed, 
and it works just fine, i.e., it is not jammed on.


If I can get the system files onto my 400 k disk I will be able to 
report whether the system is able to boot.


Any ideas?

Cheers,

Ian.

On 07-Feb-19 9:09 AM, 'Keith Jamison' via Vintage Macs wrote:

Hi Ian,

You may also look for a programmer switch on your Mac. This is an 
image of what it looks like for a 128, 512 or Plus:


http://facstaff.cbu.edu/~cyelving/PlusSwitch.jpg

And for an SE, SE FDHD and SE/30:

http://www.ccadams.org/se/switch.gif

Later models look like this,

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/1d/Macintosh_Classic_II_Left_Side_Reset_Interrupt_Switch.jpg

They are located to the rear of the computer, along the left hand side 
of the casing, near the bottom. Check also that nothing appears to be 
jammed into this area or broken and pushed in.


It could be that the interrupt or programmers switch has been pressed 
in and this will keep the computer in a repetitive null loop where it 
is unable to complete the start up process.


Can you tell us something about the history of this Mac, please? Where 
you got it, what the seller said about it, did you see it working when 
you bought it. If there is nothing evident on the outside, then the 
next step would be to remove the rear case to investigate further on 
the inside. You'll need a long (8 inch minimum length for the shaft) 
T15 Torx screwdriver to remove the screws. A 1/4" Torx bit in a holder 
won't get in far enough to engage with the screws. There are very long 
Torx drivers that were originally made for Macs but a regular T15 from 
Home Depot, B (U.K.) or a similar hardware store will be fine.


Depending on the Mac you have, you'll need to remove five (128, 512, 
Plus) or four screws (later models).


cheers,

Keith

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Ian Batty,

79 Rosebud Avenue,

Rosebud, 3939, Victoria

Mob' 0402 736 527



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Re: Single-drive Mac startup disk.

['Keith Jamison' via Vintage Macs]

Hi Ian,
You may also look for a programmer switch on your Mac. This is an image of what 
it looks like for a 128, 512 or Plus:
http://facstaff.cbu.edu/~cyelving/PlusSwitch.jpg

And for an SE, SE FDHD and SE/30:
http://www.ccadams.org/se/switch.gif

Later models look like this,
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/1d/Macintosh_Classic_II_Left_Side_Reset_Interrupt_Switch.jpg

They are located to the rear of the computer, along the left hand side of the 
casing, near the bottom. Check also that nothing appears to be jammed into this 
area or broken and pushed in.
It could be that the interrupt or programmers switch has been pressed in and 
this will keep the computer in a repetitive null loop where it is unable to 
complete the start up process.
Can you tell us something about the history of this Mac, please? Where you got 
it, what the seller said about it, did you see it working when you bought it. 
If there is nothing evident on the outside, then the next step would be to 
remove the rear case to investigate further on the inside. You'll need a long 
(8 inch minimum length for the shaft) T15 Torx screwdriver to remove the 
screws. A 1/4" Torx bit in a holder won't get in far enough to engage with the 
screws. There are very long Torx drivers that were originally made for Macs but 
a regular T15 from Home Depot, B (U.K.) or a similar hardware store will be 
fine.
Depending on the Mac you have, you'll need to remove five (128, 512, Plus) or 
four screws (later models).
cheers,
Keith

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Re: Single-drive Mac startup disk.

['Keith Jamison' via Vintage Macs]

 Hi Jerri,
I have repaired two Plus Macs and both had leaked electrolyte on the analog 
board. As a result, voltages were out of tolerance for the rest of the 
computer. One also had a problem with an X2 cap exploding and white smoke 
followed. That was a little exciting and scary at the time.
IIRC, there are only a few axial caps on the digital board, they should be fine 
as you mentioned but if the voltages are out of tolerance, due to failed caps 
on the analog board, it will have a knock on effect on the digital board. I 
once followed Pina's book to try and adjust R56 on the Plus analog board to 5V 
(without success) before I looked for dry joints and eventually found the 
electrolyte. Once the caps were replaced, the Plus booted as normal and flashed 
the floppy icon with the question mark. I did have to readjust R56 down to 5V.
I see that I wrote 'missing or faulty RAM' but I take your point that 
incorrectly seated RAM can also cause problems. As will ROM chips that need to 
be reseated. I'm not sure if I am getting all of the emails from the group as 
some do, on occasion, end up in my spam folder. I haven't seen any other posts 
from Ian as to the characters under the sad Mac icon.
The early Compacts did not have an internal fan and heat is a big problem if 
the Mac is situated near a heat source or a window where sunlight would 
exacerbate the problem of heat on the electrolytic caps..
I've also had issues with some later Classics with nicotine and lint fouling. 
That required extreme cleaning in a dishwasher. 
Ian hasn't mentioned if he has removed the back of the Mac. There could be a 
whole host of other problems inside that we cannot predict. If there is any 
evidence of corrosion on the connectors, the Mac may have been sitting in water 
or a damp environment and this may have affected the digital board as well. We 
can but guess at solutions until more information is available.
I hope Ian posts soon so we can assist him in narrowing down the problem, 
Cheers,
Keith
On Wednesday, 6 February 2019, 19:16:38 GMT, Jerri Kohl 
 wrote:  
 
 Keith,
Have you seen or heard of electrolytic capacitors on pre-SE/30 compact Macs 
leaking? These would all be through-hole capacitors, which hold up quite well 
compared to SMD ones. Apple didn't switch to SMD caps on compact Macs until the 
SE/30. The general consensus on earlier compact Macs is to leave the caps alone 
unless there is a (rare) problem (e.g smell a fishy smell). Of course, they can 
and will die eventually, and leak their fluid. It's just not common. 
*Much* more common is the battery leaking, and you noted that problem. That's 
my vote. Or if it's a Plus or has any kind of internal upgrade, the SIMMs or 
upgrade board may be loose.
Best,Jerri
On Tue, Feb 5, 2019 at 4:12 PM 'Keith Jamison' via Vintage Macs 
 wrote:

 Hi Ian,
I'm with Jerri Kohl on this.
A SAD MAC indicates an issue with the hardware. That means it could be missing 
or faulty RAM, leaked capacitors or some other faulty component. That is always 
down to the digital board (logic board, motherboard).
The fact that it powers on does not exclude the analog board where the power 
supply and video circuits are found. Some of the power circuits may be out of 
tolerance (age related and a result of temperatures and old components) and as 
such they may not be feeding the correct voltages back to the digital board.
If this is what you see: Sad Mac icon

| 
| 
| 
|  |  |

 |

 |
| 
|  | 
Sad Mac icon

A Sad Mac is a symbol used by older-generation Apple Macintosh computers 
(hardware using the Old World ROM), sta...
 |

 |

 |


Then it would be helpful to know what the two numbers are under the sad Mac.
The symbol for no system folder (i.e. no disk with a system file) is this (see 
Figure 1):
How to Generate Floppy Disks for Old Macintosh Computers - Hardware Secrets


| 
| 
| 
|  |  |

 |

 |
| 
|  | 
How to Generate Floppy Disks for Old Macintosh Computers - Hardware Secrets

Gabriel Torres

Did you buy an old Macintosh computer, but it didn’t come with programs and the 
operating system disks? In this ...
 |

 |

 |


If you are not handy with a soldering iron, you may be able to find someone 
local, or certainly within a reasonable distance who can replace the 
electrolytic capacitors and any other damaged components. 
This image shows some deposits around the capacitors on the digital board:
http://crasno.ca/articles/img/MacIIciBadCaps.jpg

This image shows the rear of the Macintosh Plus
http://www.vectronicscollections.org/apple/images/macintoshplus/msnap2.jpg

If you zoom into the image, you can see in the left hand column Model Number 
M0001A which identifies the Plus.
This image shows a Macintosh 512k:
http://www.vectronicscollections.org/apple/images/macintosh512k/macintosh512K_msnap2.jpg

Over towards the power switch, above the characters 512K is the Model Number 
M0001W
This image shows a Macintosh 128k:

Re: Single-drive Mac startup disk.

[Jerri Kohl]

Keith,

Have you seen or heard of electrolytic capacitors on pre-SE/30 compact Macs
leaking? These would all be through-hole capacitors, which hold up quite
well compared to SMD ones. Apple didn't switch to SMD caps on compact Macs
until the SE/30. The general consensus on earlier compact Macs is to leave
the caps alone unless there is a (rare) problem (e.g smell a fishy smell).
Of course, they can and will die eventually, and leak their fluid. It's
just not common.

*Much* more common is the battery leaking, and you noted that problem.
That's my vote. Or if it's a Plus or has any kind of internal upgrade, the
SIMMs or upgrade board may be loose.

Best,
Jerri

On Tue, Feb 5, 2019 at 4:12 PM 'Keith Jamison' via Vintage Macs <
vintage-macs@googlegroups.com> wrote:

> Hi Ian,
>
> I'm with Jerri Kohl on this.
>
> A SAD MAC indicates an issue with the hardware. That means it could be
> missing or faulty RAM, leaked capacitors or some other faulty component.
> That is always down to the digital board (logic board, motherboard).
>
> The fact that it powers on does not exclude the analog board where the
> power supply and video circuits are found. Some of the power circuits may
> be out of tolerance (age related and a result of temperatures and old
> components) and as such they may not be feeding the correct voltages back
> to the digital board.
>
> If this is what you see:
> Sad Mac icon 
>
> Sad Mac icon
>
> A Sad Mac is a symbol used by older-generation Apple Macintosh computers
> (hardware using the Old World ROM), sta...
> 
>
> Then it would be helpful to know what the two numbers are under the sad
> Mac.
>
> The symbol for no system folder (i.e. no disk with a system file) is this
> (see Figure 1):
>
> How to Generate Floppy Disks for Old Macintosh Computers - Hardware Secrets
> 
>
> How to Generate Floppy Disks for Old Macintosh Computers - Hardware Secrets
>
> Gabriel Torres
>
> Did you buy an old Macintosh computer, but it didn’t come with programs
> and the operating system disks? In this ...
>
> 
>
> If you are not handy with a soldering iron, you may be able to find
> someone local, or certainly within a reasonable distance who can replace
> the electrolytic capacitors and any other damaged components.
>
> This image shows some deposits around the capacitors on the digital board:
>
> http://crasno.ca/articles/img/MacIIciBadCaps.jpg
>
> This image shows the rear of the Macintosh Plus
>
> http://www.vectronicscollections.org/apple/images/macintoshplus/msnap2.jpg
>
> If you zoom into the image, you can see in the left hand column Model
> Number M0001A which identifies the Plus.
>
> This image shows a Macintosh 512k:
>
>
> http://www.vectronicscollections.org/apple/images/macintosh512k/macintosh512K_msnap2.jpg
>
> Over towards the power switch, above the characters 512K is the Model
> Number M0001W
>
> This image shows a Macintosh 128k:
>
>
> https://www.filfre.net/wp-content/uploads/2016/09/AwgXEL5dnYbIVWuo.medium.jpg
>
> Again, towards the power switch, the Model Number is given as M0001
>
> This is important for the following reason. Some folks chose to upgrade
> their original Macs by sending it back to Apple. Apple removed the original
> logic board, installed a new logic board and, as some external connections
> may have been different from the original, they installed a new back to
> reflect the actual logic board inside.
>
> This means that some original 128k and 512k Macs have Plus logic boards
> and Plus backs while the front of the casing still looks like a 128k or a
> 512k. The front casing should also have a SERIAL NUMBER label beside the
> brightness control, you will have to tip the computer carefully onto it's
> back to see the label and it likely refers to the original build, not the
> upgraded version.
>
> If you have a 128K, 512K or Plus, there should be a battery compartment
> above the power switch. The compartment is a little larger than a AA
> battery. Hopefully there is no battery in there, or, if there is a battery,
> hopefully it hasn't leaked.
>
> I'm still leaning towards some leaky electrolyte on the digital board. It
> can bridge circuit connections and cause spurious short circuits.
>
> Hope this helps you to determine the model and diagnose the fault.
>
> Keith
>
>
>
>
> On Sunday, 27 January 2019, 11:25:21 GMT, Ian 
> wrote:
>
>
> Hi, folks,
>
> I have an early Mac, it has the square RJ11 keyboard connector, DB mouse
> connector and a single floppy drive.
>
> It boots to the screen, but displays the "sad mac" icon, as I do not
> have a startup disk.
>
> I understand that this is a 400 k, single-sided disk.
>
> I do have another Mac, but it's an SE30 with the double-sided
> higher-capacity drives.
>
> So, (i) 

Re: Single-drive Mac startup disk.

[James Kelly]

Welcome to Google!

Hi

thanks for join us!

Reg Google

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Re: Single-drive Mac startup disk.

['Keith Jamison' via Vintage Macs]

 Hi Ian,
I'm with Jerri Kohl on this.
A SAD MAC indicates an issue with the hardware. That means it could be missing 
or faulty RAM, leaked capacitors or some other faulty component. That is always 
down to the digital board (logic board, motherboard).
The fact that it powers on does not exclude the analog board where the power 
supply and video circuits are found. Some of the power circuits may be out of 
tolerance (age related and a result of temperatures and old components) and as 
such they may not be feeding the correct voltages back to the digital board.
If this is what you see: Sad Mac icon

| 
| 
| 
|  |  |

 |

 |
| 
|  | 
Sad Mac icon

A Sad Mac is a symbol used by older-generation Apple Macintosh computers 
(hardware using the Old World ROM), sta...
 |

 |

 |


Then it would be helpful to know what the two numbers are under the sad Mac.
The symbol for no system folder (i.e. no disk with a system file) is this (see 
Figure 1):
How to Generate Floppy Disks for Old Macintosh Computers - Hardware Secrets


| 
| 
| 
|  |  |

 |

 |
| 
|  | 
How to Generate Floppy Disks for Old Macintosh Computers - Hardware Secrets

Gabriel Torres

Did you buy an old Macintosh computer, but it didn’t come with programs and the 
operating system disks? In this ...
 |

 |

 |


If you are not handy with a soldering iron, you may be able to find someone 
local, or certainly within a reasonable distance who can replace the 
electrolytic capacitors and any other damaged components. 
This image shows some deposits around the capacitors on the digital board:
http://crasno.ca/articles/img/MacIIciBadCaps.jpg

This image shows the rear of the Macintosh Plus
http://www.vectronicscollections.org/apple/images/macintoshplus/msnap2.jpg

If you zoom into the image, you can see in the left hand column Model Number 
M0001A which identifies the Plus.
This image shows a Macintosh 512k:
http://www.vectronicscollections.org/apple/images/macintosh512k/macintosh512K_msnap2.jpg

Over towards the power switch, above the characters 512K is the Model Number 
M0001W
This image shows a Macintosh 128k:
https://www.filfre.net/wp-content/uploads/2016/09/AwgXEL5dnYbIVWuo.medium.jpg

Again, towards the power switch, the Model Number is given as M0001
This is important for the following reason. Some folks chose to upgrade their 
original Macs by sending it back to Apple. Apple removed the original logic 
board, installed a new logic board and, as some external connections may have 
been different from the original, they installed a new back to reflect the 
actual logic board inside.
This means that some original 128k and 512k Macs have Plus logic boards and 
Plus backs while the front of the casing still looks like a 128k or a 512k. The 
front casing should also have a SERIAL NUMBER label beside the brightness 
control, you will have to tip the computer carefully onto it's back to see the 
label and it likely refers to the original build, not the upgraded version.
If you have a 128K, 512K or Plus, there should be a battery compartment above 
the power switch. The compartment is a little larger than a AA battery. 
Hopefully there is no battery in there, or, if there is a battery, hopefully it 
hasn't leaked.
I'm still leaning towards some leaky electrolyte on the digital board. It can 
bridge circuit connections and cause spurious short circuits.
Hope this helps you to determine the model and diagnose the fault.
Keith



On Sunday, 27 January 2019, 11:25:21 GMT, Ian  
wrote:  
 
 Hi, folks,

I have an early Mac, it has the square RJ11 keyboard connector, DB mouse 
connector and a single floppy drive.

It boots to the screen, but displays the "sad mac" icon, as I do not 
have a startup disk.

I understand that this is a 400 k, single-sided disk.

I do have another Mac, but it's an SE30 with the double-sided 
higher-capacity drives.

So, (i) can I get a suitable disk from you or one of your members, or 
(ii) is it possible to make a 400 k boot disk on my SE30 (I have plenty 
of spare disks).

I do have a complete set of setup disks for System 6 and System 7, but I 
understand that these will also have the incompatible high-capacity format.

Thanks in advance,

Ian Batty, Secretary, Historical Radio Society of Australia,

79 Rosebud Avenue,

Rosebud, 3939, Victoria

mob' 0402 736 527


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Re: Single-drive Mac startup disk.

[James Kelly]

Welcome to Google!

Hi

thanks for join us!

Reg Google

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You received this message because you are a member of the Vintage Macs group.
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Re: Single-drive Mac startup disk.

[Jerri Kohl]

A sad mac means there is an error. If it was just waiting on a system disk,
there would be an icon of a floppy disk with a flashing "?". Here's a
couple of pages on sad mac error codes:

   - https://udcf.gla.ac.uk/~gwm1h/Error_Codes/Sad_Mac_Codes.html
   - http://myoldmac.net/FAQ/SADerror.htm

What type of Mac do you have? It will say on the back. As Jonathan
mentioned, the Plus has an 800KB double-side drive, and the 512Ke and ED
(for education) do, as well. You can tell these models on the back (as
sometimes they're upgraded, but the front piece hasn't been) by the model
#s M0001A for Plus, M0001E for 512Ke, and M0001D/M0001ED for ED.

On Sun, Jan 27, 2019 at 6:25 AM Ian  wrote:

> Hi, folks,
>
> I have an early Mac, it has the square RJ11 keyboard connector, DB mouse
> connector and a single floppy drive.
>
> It boots to the screen, but displays the "sad mac" icon, as I do not
> have a startup disk.
>
> I understand that this is a 400 k, single-sided disk.
>
> I do have another Mac, but it's an SE30 with the double-sided
> higher-capacity drives.
>
> So, (i) can I get a suitable disk from you or one of your members, or
> (ii) is it possible to make a 400 k boot disk on my SE30 (I have plenty
> of spare disks).
>
> I do have a complete set of setup disks for System 6 and System 7, but I
> understand that these will also have the incompatible high-capacity format.
>
> Thanks in advance,
>
> Ian Batty, Secretary, Historical Radio Society of Australia,
>
> 79 Rosebud Avenue,
>
> Rosebud, 3939, Victoria
>
> mob' 0402 736 527
>
>
> ---
> This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
> https://www.avg.com
>
> --
> --
> -
> You received this message because you are a member of the Vintage Macs
> group.
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> netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml
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>
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Re: Single-drive Mac startup disk.

[Jonathan Morton]

> On 27 Jan, 2019, at 1:25 pm, Ian  wrote:
> 
> is it possible to make a 400 k boot disk on my SE30

It should be possible to do this, one way or another.

Step 1 is to convert a high-density disk into a double-density one by filling 
the extra sense hole (opposite the write-protect one).  A small wad of paper 
and/or a piece of tape should do it.

Step 2 is to format the disk in your SE30.  A Mac Plus already has an 800K 
drive, so you can use the double-sided formats and are not restricted to 400K.  
Only the first 128K and 512K models have single-sided drives, and they are 
limited to System 4.1, not 6.

For Step 3, you should be able to install System (or restore a working disk 
image) on the floppy using your SE30.  If there's an "install for any Mac" 
option, use it.  If you run into trouble, come back and ask for more advice.

 - Jonathan Morton

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Re: Single-drive Mac startup disk.

[James Kelly]

Welcome to Google!

Hi

thanks for join us!

Reg Google

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