Re: Computer vs. I device
Jaws definitely does Hebrew. For some reason, if you select a European language braille table like Spanish, you can read Hebrew. Can you do this with the Mac? Haya Simkin guide dog Pammy Sent from my iPhone On May 16, 2014, at 20:48, RobH. bobs...@googlemail.com wrote: Sorry, you're right, we only answered the bits we had much clue about. A Mac has VoiceOver provided as part of the system, like iOs. windows would need open wallet surgery to buy JAWS. No idea about hebrew, do we know if JAWS can do that even? rh. - Original Message - From: Haya Simkin guide dog Pammy hayasim...@gmail.com To: viphone@googlegroups.com Sent: Friday, May 16, 2014 6:23 PM Subject: Re: Computer vs. I device What about my other questions? Haya Simkin guide dog Pammy -- The following information is important for all members of the viphone list. All new members to the this list are moderated by default. If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself. The archives for this list can be searched at http://www.mail-archive.com/viphone@googlegroups.com/. --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups VIPhone group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to viphone@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/viphone. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- The following information is important for all members of the viphone list. All new members to the this list are moderated by default. If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself. The archives for this list can be searched at http://www.mail-archive.com/viphone@googlegroups.com/. --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups VIPhone group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to viphone@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/viphone. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: Computer vs. I device
All I can tell you is that Hebrew is not available on the Mac either as speech or in Braille. Whether there is a workaround for this by using a third-party voice such as Acapela I don't know. Cheers, Anne On 17 May 2014, at 14:02, Haya Simkin guide dog Pammy hayasim...@gmail.com wrote: Jaws definitely does Hebrew. For some reason, if you select a European language braille table like Spanish, you can read Hebrew. Can you do this with the Mac? Haya Simkin guide dog Pammy Sent from my iPhone On May 16, 2014, at 20:48, RobH. bobs...@googlemail.com wrote: Sorry, you're right, we only answered the bits we had much clue about. A Mac has VoiceOver provided as part of the system, like iOs. windows would need open wallet surgery to buy JAWS. No idea about hebrew, do we know if JAWS can do that even? rh. - Original Message - From: Haya Simkin guide dog Pammy hayasim...@gmail.com To: viphone@googlegroups.com Sent: Friday, May 16, 2014 6:23 PM Subject: Re: Computer vs. I device What about my other questions? Haya Simkin guide dog Pammy -- The following information is important for all members of the viphone list. All new members to the this list are moderated by default. If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself. The archives for this list can be searched at http://www.mail-archive.com/viphone@googlegroups.com/. --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups VIPhone group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to viphone@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/viphone. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- The following information is important for all members of the viphone list. All new members to the this list are moderated by default. If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself. The archives for this list can be searched at http://www.mail-archive.com/viphone@googlegroups.com/. --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups VIPhone group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to viphone@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/viphone. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- The following information is important for all members of the viphone list. All new members to the this list are moderated by default. If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself. The archives for this list can be searched at http://www.mail-archive.com/viphone@googlegroups.com/. --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups VIPhone group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to viphone@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/viphone. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: Computer vs. I device
I just wanted to mention that there is an easier way to delete email messages on an eye device. Whenever I'm reading email and I want to delete a message, I simply perform a single finger flick up until I hear archive if I'm in Gmail or trash if I'm in my SBC global account. Then I double tap any erases it. This works if I'm deleting an entire thread or just deleting an individual message in a thread. I just thought I would share that in case people weren't aware. Kellie and guide Loki Sent from my iPhone On May 16, 2014, at 9:38 AM, Alex Hall mehg...@icloud.com wrote: Macs are better for productivity, partly because they are faster, partly because they offer full keyboards, and partly because they have tons of keyboard shortcuts. Plus, if a menu option lacks a shortcut, you can assign one yourself. I use my iOS device for RSS, mail, games, book-reading, and tons more. I use my Mac for some of the same, plus app development, audio editing, heavy typing, easier web browsing, and more efficient versions of things I do on iOS. For instance, on a Mac, deleting some emails is as easy as shift-arrowing along the list, then pressing delete. On iOS, you double tap edit, double tap each message after flicking to it, then double tap trash. Macs are way different, but not better or worse. They beat Windows in some areas, and Windows beats them in some areas. Interaction is a big part of the mac, but it is not at all crazy-making past the first month of constant use. You eventually know that some items require interaction and some don't, and you're done. Also, with Trackpad Commander, you can do a two-finger flick right to interact, and left to stop interacting. Or, assign the two commands to a keyboard or numpad commander to make it easier, or use Quick Nav. The OP, and anyone else confused about Macs, should read the following articles: Common Mac myths: http://www.applevis.com/blog/apple-mac-os-x/debunking-common-myths-about-voiceover-mac Getting started with VoiceOver: http://www.applevis.com/guides/accessories/getting-started-your-mac-using-voiceover Plus the other guides and articles on the Applevis page for new Mac users: http://www.applevis.com//new-to-mac On May 16, 2014, at 9:37 AM, Richard Turner rich...@turner42.com wrote: The only things I do on the computer that I don't do on the iPhone are: Word process editing. It is so much easier to deal with Word on a PC than doing any real editing and formatting on an iDevice. Audio editing with GoldWave. Web site creation and maintenance Excel spreadsheets Pretty much everything else I mostly do with the iPhone; banking, web searches, Email, looking up definitions, and much more. I also think Microsoft word is far, far easier to use than any word processing on a Mac. Especially if you are doing any kind of formatting with headings, etc. The business of having to figure out when to interact and when you don't need to interact with an element on the screen with a Mac is crazy making. Plus, it is one of the strangest keystrokes I have ever heard of, Control+Shift+Options+down arrow to interact and Control+Shift+Options+up arrow to stop interacting. HTH, Richard -Original Message- From: viphone@googlegroups.com [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Haya Simkin guide dog Pammy Sent: Friday, May 16, 2014 2:35 AM To: viphone@googlegroups.com Subject: Computer vs. I device Hi folks, I hope this isn't too ot. I'm considering buying my first laptop. What do you use a computer for that an ode vice can't do? Also, is VoiceOver any different on a Mac than on an iPhone? How does it compare with jaws? Unlike the iPhone, does it know Hebrew? Can it cope with it if knows Hebrew Braille but doesn't have an appropriate voice synthesizer? Again, I hope this isn't too OT. Haya Simkin guide dog Pammy Sent from my iPhone -- The following information is important for all members of the viphone list. All new members to the this list are moderated by default. If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself. The archives for this list can be searched at http://www.mail-archive.com/viphone@googlegroups.com/. --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups VIPhone group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to viphone@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/viphone. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- The following information is important for all members of the viphone list. All new members to the this list are moderated by default. If you have any questions or
Deleting email messages [was Re: Computer vs. I device]
and if you want the trash option when deleting messages from your Gmail account, instead of the archive option, then go into Settings - Mail, Contacts, Calendars and double tap on your Gmail account. Double tap on your account again, double tap on Advanced and select the deleted mailbox option under move discarded messages into. On 05/17/2014 04:41 PM, Kellie wrote: I just wanted to mention that there is an easier way to delete email messages on an eye device. Whenever I'm reading email and I want to delete a message, I simply perform a single finger flick up until I hear archive if I'm in Gmail or trash if I'm in my SBC global account. Then I double tap any erases it. This works if I'm deleting an entire thread or just deleting an individual message in a thread. I just thought I would share that in case people weren't aware. Kellie and guide Loki Sent from my iPhone On May 16, 2014, at 9:38 AM, Alex Hall mehg...@icloud.com mailto:mehg...@icloud.com wrote: Macs are better for productivity, partly because they are faster, partly because they offer full keyboards, and partly because they have tons of keyboard shortcuts. Plus, if a menu option lacks a shortcut, you can assign one yourself. I use my iOS device for RSS, mail, games, book-reading, and tons more. I use my Mac for some of the same, plus app development, audio editing, heavy typing, easier web browsing, and more efficient versions of things I do on iOS. For instance, on a Mac, deleting some emails is as easy as shift-arrowing along the list, then pressing delete. On iOS, you double tap edit, double tap each message after flicking to it, then double tap trash. Macs are way different, but not better or worse. They beat Windows in some areas, and Windows beats them in some areas. Interaction is a big part of the mac, but it is not at all crazy-making past the first month of constant use. You eventually know that some items require interaction and some don't, and you're done. Also, with Trackpad Commander, you can do a two-finger flick right to interact, and left to stop interacting. Or, assign the two commands to a keyboard or numpad commander to make it easier, or use Quick Nav. The OP, and anyone else confused about Macs, should read the following articles: Common Mac myths: http://www.applevis.com/blog/apple-mac-os-x/debunking-common-myths-about-voiceover-mac Getting started with VoiceOver: http://www.applevis.com/guides/accessories/getting-started-your-mac-using-voiceover Plus the other guides and articles on the Applevis page for new Mac users: http://www.applevis.com//new-to-mac On May 16, 2014, at 9:37 AM, Richard Turner rich...@turner42.com mailto:rich...@turner42.com wrote: The only things I do on the computer that I don't do on the iPhone are: Word process editing. It is so much easier to deal with Word on a PC than doing any real editing and formatting on an iDevice. Audio editing with GoldWave. Web site creation and maintenance Excel spreadsheets Pretty much everything else I mostly do with the iPhone; banking, web searches, Email, looking up definitions, and much more. I also think Microsoft word is far, far easier to use than any word processing on a Mac. Especially if you are doing any kind of formatting with headings, etc. The business of having to figure out when to interact and when you don't need to interact with an element on the screen with a Mac is crazy making. Plus, it is one of the strangest keystrokes I have ever heard of, Control+Shift+Options+down arrow to interact and Control+Shift+Options+up arrow to stop interacting. HTH, Richard -Original Message- From: viphone@googlegroups.com mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Haya Simkin guide dog Pammy Sent: Friday, May 16, 2014 2:35 AM To: viphone@googlegroups.com mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com Subject: Computer vs. I device Hi folks, I hope this isn't too ot. I'm considering buying my first laptop. What do you use a computer for that an ode vice can't do? Also, is VoiceOver any different on a Mac than on an iPhone? How does it compare with jaws? Unlike the iPhone, does it know Hebrew? Can it cope with it if knows Hebrew Braille but doesn't have an appropriate voice synthesizer? Again, I hope this isn't too OT. Haya Simkin guide dog Pammy Sent from my iPhone -- The following information is important for all members of the viphone list. All new members to the this list are moderated by default. If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself. The archives for this list can be searched at http://www.mail-archive.com/viphone@googlegroups.com/. --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups VIPhone group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to
Re: Computer vs. I device
Test. -Original Message- From: Richard Turner Sent: Friday, May 16, 2014 9:37 AM To: viphone@googlegroups.com Subject: RE: Computer vs. I device The only things I do on the computer that I don't do on the iPhone are: Word process editing. It is so much easier to deal with Word on a PC than doing any real editing and formatting on an iDevice. Audio editing with GoldWave. Web site creation and maintenance Excel spreadsheets Pretty much everything else I mostly do with the iPhone; banking, web searches, Email, looking up definitions, and much more. I also think Microsoft word is far, far easier to use than any word processing on a Mac. Especially if you are doing any kind of formatting with headings, etc. The business of having to figure out when to interact and when you don't need to interact with an element on the screen with a Mac is crazy making. Plus, it is one of the strangest keystrokes I have ever heard of, Control+Shift+Options+down arrow to interact and Control+Shift+Options+up arrow to stop interacting. HTH, Richard -Original Message- From: viphone@googlegroups.com [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Haya Simkin guide dog Pammy Sent: Friday, May 16, 2014 2:35 AM To: viphone@googlegroups.com Subject: Computer vs. I device Hi folks, I hope this isn't too ot. I'm considering buying my first laptop. What do you use a computer for that an ode vice can't do? Also, is VoiceOver any different on a Mac than on an iPhone? How does it compare with jaws? Unlike the iPhone, does it know Hebrew? Can it cope with it if knows Hebrew Braille but doesn't have an appropriate voice synthesizer? Again, I hope this isn't too OT. Haya Simkin guide dog Pammy Sent from my iPhone -- The following information is important for all members of the viphone list. All new members to the this list are moderated by default. If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself. The archives for this list can be searched at http://www.mail-archive.com/viphone@googlegroups.com/. --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups VIPhone group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to viphone@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/viphone. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- The following information is important for all members of the viphone list. All new members to the this list are moderated by default. If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself. The archives for this list can be searched at http://www.mail-archive.com/viphone@googlegroups.com/. --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups VIPhone group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to viphone@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/viphone. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- The following information is important for all members of the viphone list. All new members to the this list are moderated by default. If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself. The archives for this list can be searched at http://www.mail-archive.com/viphone@googlegroups.com/. --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups VIPhone group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to viphone@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/viphone. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: Computer vs. I device
My key concerns with this decision are - a filing system, ability to store and manipulate ones extensive legacy data set, and perhaps use of a full size keyboard on a flat surface. iOs is good for the portability thing, but a real, if small real pc still has fundamental things I couldn't afford to lose. I think basic editing, good as one thinks iOs is, is still a pain in the doodaa compared to how we used to write with arror key navigation, insert at the point of your choosing, and stay there until you changed it with appropriate arrow/control keys, and so on. I can scribble mindlessly in Notepad, hopefully ditto in Mac's equivalent; and never got this freedon in iOs even yet, and despite what has been said and done. Ok, it can be done, it has been done, if you work at it long enough. I'm all for having a real 'puter for the real work, even if we use our iDevices for the quick and immediate; as feeder to the main work device. JMO, RobH. - Original Message - From: Haya Simkin guide dog Pammy hayasim...@gmail.com To: viphone@googlegroups.com Sent: Friday, May 16, 2014 10:34 AM Subject: Computer vs. I device Hi folks, I hope this isn't too ot. I'm considering buying my first laptop. What do you use a computer for that an ode vice can't do? Also, is VoiceOver any different on a Mac than on an iPhone? How does it compare with jaws? Unlike the iPhone, does it know Hebrew? Can it cope with it if knows Hebrew Braille but doesn't have an appropriate voice synthesizer? Again, I hope this isn't too OT. Haya Simkin guide dog Pammy Sent from my iPhone -- The following information is important for all members of the viphone list. All new members to the this list are moderated by default. If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself. The archives for this list can be searched at http://www.mail-archive.com/viphone@googlegroups.com/. --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups VIPhone group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to viphone@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/viphone. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- The following information is important for all members of the viphone list. All new members to the this list are moderated by default. If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself. The archives for this list can be searched at http://www.mail-archive.com/viphone@googlegroups.com/. --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups VIPhone group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to viphone@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/viphone. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: Computer vs. I device
Shalom, Hayah. I am far from a Mac expert but I've used one, off and on, for a few years. As to how the Mac's keyboard commands compares with screen readers such as JAWS, the differences are like comparing, no pun intended, apples and oranges. OK, admittedly the pun was intended ... I don't know if you've ever used a bluetooth keyboard with your iDevice. If you have, it would be better to compare that experience with using a Mac because the commands are very similar and, in some cases, identical. Contact me offlist if you have further questions. Feel free to visit my new Web site http://www.DavidGoldfield.info Feel free to visit my LinkedIn profile http://www.linkedin.com/pub/david-goldfield/12/929/573 visit my blog http://davidgoldfield.wordpress.com Follow me on Twitter http://www.twitter.com/davidgoldfield David Goldfield, Founder and Peer Coordinator Philadelphia Computer Users' Group for the Blind and Visually Impaired On 5/16/2014 5:34 AM, Haya Simkin guide dog Pammy wrote: Hi folks, I hope this isn't too ot. I'm considering buying my first laptop. What do you use a computer for that an ode vice can't do? Also, is VoiceOver any different on a Mac than on an iPhone? How does it compare with jaws? Unlike the iPhone, does it know Hebrew? Can it cope with it if knows Hebrew Braille but doesn't have an appropriate voice synthesizer? Again, I hope this isn't too OT. Haya Simkin guide dog Pammy Sent from my iPhone -- The following information is important for all members of the viphone list. All new members to the this list are moderated by default. If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself. The archives for this list can be searched at http://www.mail-archive.com/viphone@googlegroups.com/. --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups VIPhone group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to viphone@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/viphone. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
RE: Computer vs. I device
The only things I do on the computer that I don't do on the iPhone are: Word process editing. It is so much easier to deal with Word on a PC than doing any real editing and formatting on an iDevice. Audio editing with GoldWave. Web site creation and maintenance Excel spreadsheets Pretty much everything else I mostly do with the iPhone; banking, web searches, Email, looking up definitions, and much more. I also think Microsoft word is far, far easier to use than any word processing on a Mac. Especially if you are doing any kind of formatting with headings, etc. The business of having to figure out when to interact and when you don't need to interact with an element on the screen with a Mac is crazy making. Plus, it is one of the strangest keystrokes I have ever heard of, Control+Shift+Options+down arrow to interact and Control+Shift+Options+up arrow to stop interacting. HTH, Richard -Original Message- From: viphone@googlegroups.com [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Haya Simkin guide dog Pammy Sent: Friday, May 16, 2014 2:35 AM To: viphone@googlegroups.com Subject: Computer vs. I device Hi folks, I hope this isn't too ot. I'm considering buying my first laptop. What do you use a computer for that an ode vice can't do? Also, is VoiceOver any different on a Mac than on an iPhone? How does it compare with jaws? Unlike the iPhone, does it know Hebrew? Can it cope with it if knows Hebrew Braille but doesn't have an appropriate voice synthesizer? Again, I hope this isn't too OT. Haya Simkin guide dog Pammy Sent from my iPhone -- The following information is important for all members of the viphone list. All new members to the this list are moderated by default. If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself. The archives for this list can be searched at http://www.mail-archive.com/viphone@googlegroups.com/. --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups VIPhone group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to viphone@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/viphone. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- The following information is important for all members of the viphone list. All new members to the this list are moderated by default. If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself. The archives for this list can be searched at http://www.mail-archive.com/viphone@googlegroups.com/. --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups VIPhone group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to viphone@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/viphone. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: Computer vs. I device
Macs are better for productivity, partly because they are faster, partly because they offer full keyboards, and partly because they have tons of keyboard shortcuts. Plus, if a menu option lacks a shortcut, you can assign one yourself. I use my iOS device for RSS, mail, games, book-reading, and tons more. I use my Mac for some of the same, plus app development, audio editing, heavy typing, easier web browsing, and more efficient versions of things I do on iOS. For instance, on a Mac, deleting some emails is as easy as shift-arrowing along the list, then pressing delete. On iOS, you double tap edit, double tap each message after flicking to it, then double tap trash. Macs are way different, but not better or worse. They beat Windows in some areas, and Windows beats them in some areas. Interaction is a big part of the mac, but it is not at all crazy-making past the first month of constant use. You eventually know that some items require interaction and some don't, and you're done. Also, with Trackpad Commander, you can do a two-finger flick right to interact, and left to stop interacting. Or, assign the two commands to a keyboard or numpad commander to make it easier, or use Quick Nav. The OP, and anyone else confused about Macs, should read the following articles: Common Mac myths: http://www.applevis.com/blog/apple-mac-os-x/debunking-common-myths-about-voiceover-mac Getting started with VoiceOver: http://www.applevis.com/guides/accessories/getting-started-your-mac-using-voiceover Plus the other guides and articles on the Applevis page for new Mac users: http://www.applevis.com//new-to-mac On May 16, 2014, at 9:37 AM, Richard Turner rich...@turner42.com wrote: The only things I do on the computer that I don't do on the iPhone are: Word process editing. It is so much easier to deal with Word on a PC than doing any real editing and formatting on an iDevice. Audio editing with GoldWave. Web site creation and maintenance Excel spreadsheets Pretty much everything else I mostly do with the iPhone; banking, web searches, Email, looking up definitions, and much more. I also think Microsoft word is far, far easier to use than any word processing on a Mac. Especially if you are doing any kind of formatting with headings, etc. The business of having to figure out when to interact and when you don't need to interact with an element on the screen with a Mac is crazy making. Plus, it is one of the strangest keystrokes I have ever heard of, Control+Shift+Options+down arrow to interact and Control+Shift+Options+up arrow to stop interacting. HTH, Richard -Original Message- From: viphone@googlegroups.com [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Haya Simkin guide dog Pammy Sent: Friday, May 16, 2014 2:35 AM To: viphone@googlegroups.com Subject: Computer vs. I device Hi folks, I hope this isn't too ot. I'm considering buying my first laptop. What do you use a computer for that an ode vice can't do? Also, is VoiceOver any different on a Mac than on an iPhone? How does it compare with jaws? Unlike the iPhone, does it know Hebrew? Can it cope with it if knows Hebrew Braille but doesn't have an appropriate voice synthesizer? Again, I hope this isn't too OT. Haya Simkin guide dog Pammy Sent from my iPhone -- The following information is important for all members of the viphone list. All new members to the this list are moderated by default. If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself. The archives for this list can be searched at http://www.mail-archive.com/viphone@googlegroups.com/. --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups VIPhone group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to viphone@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/viphone. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- The following information is important for all members of the viphone list. All new members to the this list are moderated by default. If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself. The archives for this list can be searched at http://www.mail-archive.com/viphone@googlegroups.com/. --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups VIPhone group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to viphone@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at
Re: Computer vs. I device
Thanks for these links. I bought a MacAir a few years ago but couldn't beat the learning curve and gave up on it. I still have it though and one day would like to make the attempt once again. I am an old windows user, like thirty years of windows, and the Mac just beat me. Kimber On 5/16/14, Alex Hall mehg...@icloud.com wrote: Macs are better for productivity, partly because they are faster, partly because they offer full keyboards, and partly because they have tons of keyboard shortcuts. Plus, if a menu option lacks a shortcut, you can assign one yourself. I use my iOS device for RSS, mail, games, book-reading, and tons more. I use my Mac for some of the same, plus app development, audio editing, heavy typing, easier web browsing, and more efficient versions of things I do on iOS. For instance, on a Mac, deleting some emails is as easy as shift-arrowing along the list, then pressing delete. On iOS, you double tap edit, double tap each message after flicking to it, then double tap trash. Macs are way different, but not better or worse. They beat Windows in some areas, and Windows beats them in some areas. Interaction is a big part of the mac, but it is not at all crazy-making past the first month of constant use. You eventually know that some items require interaction and some don't, and you're done. Also, with Trackpad Commander, you can do a two-finger flick right to interact, and left to stop interacting. Or, assign the two commands to a keyboard or numpad commander to make it easier, or use Quick Nav. The OP, and anyone else confused about Macs, should read the following articles: Common Mac myths: http://www.applevis.com/blog/apple-mac-os-x/debunking-common-myths-about-voiceover-mac Getting started with VoiceOver: http://www.applevis.com/guides/accessories/getting-started-your-mac-using-voiceover Plus the other guides and articles on the Applevis page for new Mac users: http://www.applevis.com//new-to-mac On May 16, 2014, at 9:37 AM, Richard Turner rich...@turner42.com wrote: The only things I do on the computer that I don't do on the iPhone are: Word process editing. It is so much easier to deal with Word on a PC than doing any real editing and formatting on an iDevice. Audio editing with GoldWave. Web site creation and maintenance Excel spreadsheets Pretty much everything else I mostly do with the iPhone; banking, web searches, Email, looking up definitions, and much more. I also think Microsoft word is far, far easier to use than any word processing on a Mac. Especially if you are doing any kind of formatting with headings, etc. The business of having to figure out when to interact and when you don't need to interact with an element on the screen with a Mac is crazy making. Plus, it is one of the strangest keystrokes I have ever heard of, Control+Shift+Options+down arrow to interact and Control+Shift+Options+up arrow to stop interacting. HTH, Richard -Original Message- From: viphone@googlegroups.com [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Haya Simkin guide dog Pammy Sent: Friday, May 16, 2014 2:35 AM To: viphone@googlegroups.com Subject: Computer vs. I device Hi folks, I hope this isn't too ot. I'm considering buying my first laptop. What do you use a computer for that an ode vice can't do? Also, is VoiceOver any different on a Mac than on an iPhone? How does it compare with jaws? Unlike the iPhone, does it know Hebrew? Can it cope with it if knows Hebrew Braille but doesn't have an appropriate voice synthesizer? Again, I hope this isn't too OT. Haya Simkin guide dog Pammy Sent from my iPhone -- The following information is important for all members of the viphone list. All new members to the this list are moderated by default. If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself. The archives for this list can be searched at http://www.mail-archive.com/viphone@googlegroups.com/. --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups VIPhone group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to viphone@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/viphone. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- The following information is important for all members of the viphone list. All new members to the this list are moderated by default. If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself. The archives for this list can be searched at http://www.mail-archive.com/viphone@googlegroups.com/.
Re: Computer vs. I device
I strongly encourage you to not give up on it. The automagic syncing of contacts, calendars, reminders, Safari tabs and bookmarks, text expanders, and more makes the Mac a great choice for those using iOS devices. I also can't recommend www.applevis.com highly enough; if you have questions, post them in the forums and you'll usually get helpful answers quite quickly. There is also the email list I'm on: macvisionaries+subscr...@googlegroups.com. Finally, don't forget you can always use a virtual machine solution, or Bootcamp, to put Windows on the Mac if you absolutely need to. To get back on topic, I forgot to mention one other aspect of a computer over iOS: storage space. My iPhone has 16gb of space, which I could max out at 64gb if I had the money and need. However, my Mac Mini has 500gb. I can store all the music, movies, audio projects, podcasts, audio books, applications, and so forth I want to. Even if you have a new Macbook with the smaller, flash-based drives, you have more room than most iOS devices, even at the low end of the Mac line. Macs support external storage (networked or plugged in directly), with no need for special apps. yes, cloud storage can help with some of this, but what happens when the internet goes down or you run out of room? The cheapest cloud storage I know of is Google Drive, and even then, a few years of that and you could have bought a hard drive with more capacity. I understand that cloud storage offers its own advantages, and I do use it all the time. My point is simply that iOS devices and regular computers are meant for two different sets of tasks. If possible, get both, and have the best of both worlds. On May 16, 2014, at 10:55 AM, Kimber Gardner kimbersinbox1...@gmail.com wrote: Thanks for these links. I bought a MacAir a few years ago but couldn't beat the learning curve and gave up on it. I still have it though and one day would like to make the attempt once again. I am an old windows user, like thirty years of windows, and the Mac just beat me. Kimber On 5/16/14, Alex Hall mehg...@icloud.com wrote: Macs are better for productivity, partly because they are faster, partly because they offer full keyboards, and partly because they have tons of keyboard shortcuts. Plus, if a menu option lacks a shortcut, you can assign one yourself. I use my iOS device for RSS, mail, games, book-reading, and tons more. I use my Mac for some of the same, plus app development, audio editing, heavy typing, easier web browsing, and more efficient versions of things I do on iOS. For instance, on a Mac, deleting some emails is as easy as shift-arrowing along the list, then pressing delete. On iOS, you double tap edit, double tap each message after flicking to it, then double tap trash. Macs are way different, but not better or worse. They beat Windows in some areas, and Windows beats them in some areas. Interaction is a big part of the mac, but it is not at all crazy-making past the first month of constant use. You eventually know that some items require interaction and some don't, and you're done. Also, with Trackpad Commander, you can do a two-finger flick right to interact, and left to stop interacting. Or, assign the two commands to a keyboard or numpad commander to make it easier, or use Quick Nav. The OP, and anyone else confused about Macs, should read the following articles: Common Mac myths: http://www.applevis.com/blog/apple-mac-os-x/debunking-common-myths-about-voiceover-mac Getting started with VoiceOver: http://www.applevis.com/guides/accessories/getting-started-your-mac-using-voiceover Plus the other guides and articles on the Applevis page for new Mac users: http://www.applevis.com//new-to-mac On May 16, 2014, at 9:37 AM, Richard Turner rich...@turner42.com wrote: The only things I do on the computer that I don't do on the iPhone are: Word process editing. It is so much easier to deal with Word on a PC than doing any real editing and formatting on an iDevice. Audio editing with GoldWave. Web site creation and maintenance Excel spreadsheets Pretty much everything else I mostly do with the iPhone; banking, web searches, Email, looking up definitions, and much more. I also think Microsoft word is far, far easier to use than any word processing on a Mac. Especially if you are doing any kind of formatting with headings, etc. The business of having to figure out when to interact and when you don't need to interact with an element on the screen with a Mac is crazy making. Plus, it is one of the strangest keystrokes I have ever heard of, Control+Shift+Options+down arrow to interact and Control+Shift+Options+up arrow to stop interacting. HTH, Richard -Original Message- From: viphone@googlegroups.com [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Haya Simkin guide dog Pammy Sent: Friday, May 16, 2014 2:35 AM To: viphone@googlegroups.com Subject: Computer vs. I
Re: Computer vs. I device
Kimber, I realize that this topic is slowly beginning to deviate from the purpose of this list and so I somewhat hesitate to compose this on the list. However, I feel that, if this can benefit you or someone else who is resisting the Mac, I'd like to take the risk. Frankly, I wish someone had told me some of what I'm about to write. First, I'm also a user of Windows and have been using it since the mid-1990's. I first got into playing with assistive tech in 1987 and began working in the field in 1991. In general, I learn quickly and I like to think that I know how to teach what I know in a way that people can understand, without intimidating the student. Consequently, when my employer first purchased an iMac for my classroom I was humbled, to say the least. The Mac is very, very different from windows. It's not quite like going from a Braille 'n Speak to a BrailleNote or from a victor Stream to a booksense where the same concepts apply but you're just using a slightly different set of commands with buttons in different places. It's more like going from English to a foreign language like French. Some of what you know in the English language will serve you and will make the transition somewhat easier but, in general, there comes a point where you can't depend on your knowledge of your first language in order to learn the second one. You have to somehow let go and realize that French or another foreign language isn't English, will never be English and doesn't even try to present itself as English. You'll be tempted to yell and rant that those stupid French-speaking people place the adjective in the wrong part of the sentence and that they have no concept of correct grammar and syntax and if only they could just speak the way you speak the world would revolve properly on its axis and all would be well. The truth is, of course, that the native speaker of french might well be making the same complaint about our own language and they are no better or worse when it comes to grammar or syntax than we are; they're just different. There are things about the Mac which, sometimes, translate from the perspective of Windows but only to a point. You will be tempted to throw your Mac out the window and complain that Apple just doesn't get a clue and that they should be more like windows. They won't and they don't try to be, for the most part. I had similar frustrations about the Mac for quite some time. I'm still not to a point where I prefer it over windows but I've given it a chance and I at least understand why they do some of the things they do. Sometimes, the keyboard shortcuts seem unintuitive but if I'm going to be honest I'd have to say that my beloved windows screen readers sometimes use keystrokes which are equally unintuitive but we never complain because we just got used to it. Nobody wonders why alt-f4 is used to close a program in Windows, even though it's an odd choice and makes no sense. Actually, Microsoft probably chose it because if they chose a key like escape or alt-c for close we'd likely press them accidentally more often and we'd wind up unintentionally closing programs we didn't mean to close but it's still a bizarre choice for a key. Admittedly, some of apple's choices are equally bizarre. However, reading Alex's articles, along with listening to the tutorials from www.macfortheblind.com really helped me at least appreciate the Mac. It has advantages over windows but I think it's at least worth pursuing if you're feeling adventurous. Feel free to visit my new Web site http://www.DavidGoldfield.info Feel free to visit my LinkedIn profile http://www.linkedin.com/pub/david-goldfield/12/929/573 visit my blog http://davidgoldfield.wordpress.com Follow me on Twitter http://www.twitter.com/davidgoldfield David Goldfield, Founder and Peer Coordinator Philadelphia Computer Users' Group for the Blind and Visually Impaired On 5/16/2014 11:06 AM, Alex Hall wrote: I strongly encourage you to not give up on it. The automagic syncing of contacts, calendars, reminders, Safari tabs and bookmarks, text expanders, and more makes the Mac a great choice for those using iOS devices. I also can't recommend www.applevis.com http://www.applevis.com highly enough; if you have questions, post them in the forums and you'll usually get helpful answers quite quickly. There is also the email list I'm on: macvisionaries+subscr...@googlegroups.com mailto:macvisionaries+subscr...@googlegroups.com. Finally, don't forget you can always use a virtual machine solution, or Bootcamp, to put Windows on the Mac if you absolutely need to. To get back on topic, I forgot to mention one other aspect of a computer over iOS: storage space. My iPhone has 16gb of space, which I could max out at 64gb if I had the money and need. However, my Mac Mini has 500gb. I can store all the music, movies, audio projects, podcasts, audio books,
RE: Computer vs. I device
Alex, Thanks for the resources. Macs are more productive for you. I have used computers since the Commodore 64 in the early 1980's. For me personally, I find Windows a more productive environment but I know there are tons of Mac users that feel the same about Macs. I'm very glad that both exist along with Linux and whatever else is out there. One size does not fit all and I'm not saying one is always better than the other, I was merely expressing a personal statement in response to a question. I have already referred a client to the list of resources you gave and will continue to encourage folks to find the system that works best for them. But I Will say, the iPhone is the best portable device since sliced bread, grin. Richard' From: viphone@googlegroups.com [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Alex Hall Sent: Friday, May 16, 2014 7:38 AM To: viphone@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: Computer vs. I device Macs are better for productivity, partly because they are faster, partly because they offer full keyboards, and partly because they have tons of keyboard shortcuts. Plus, if a menu option lacks a shortcut, you can assign one yourself. I use my iOS device for RSS, mail, games, book-reading, and tons more. I use my Mac for some of the same, plus app development, audio editing, heavy typing, easier web browsing, and more efficient versions of things I do on iOS. For instance, on a Mac, deleting some emails is as easy as shift-arrowing along the list, then pressing delete. On iOS, you double tap edit, double tap each message after flicking to it, then double tap trash. Macs are way different, but not better or worse. They beat Windows in some areas, and Windows beats them in some areas. Interaction is a big part of the mac, but it is not at all crazy-making past the first month of constant use. You eventually know that some items require interaction and some don't, and you're done. Also, with Trackpad Commander, you can do a two-finger flick right to interact, and left to stop interacting. Or, assign the two commands to a keyboard or numpad commander to make it easier, or use Quick Nav. The OP, and anyone else confused about Macs, should read the following articles: Common Mac myths: http://www.applevis.com/blog/apple-mac-os-x/debunking-common-myths-about-voi ceover-mac Getting started with VoiceOver: http://www.applevis.com/guides/accessories/getting-started-your-mac-using-vo iceover Plus the other guides and articles on the Applevis page for new Mac users: http://www.applevis.com//new-to-mac http://www.applevis.com/new-to-mac On May 16, 2014, at 9:37 AM, Richard Turner rich...@turner42.com mailto:rich...@turner42.com wrote: The only things I do on the computer that I don't do on the iPhone are: Word process editing. It is so much easier to deal with Word on a PC than doing any real editing and formatting on an iDevice. Audio editing with GoldWave. Web site creation and maintenance Excel spreadsheets Pretty much everything else I mostly do with the iPhone; banking, web searches, Email, looking up definitions, and much more. I also think Microsoft word is far, far easier to use than any word processing on a Mac. Especially if you are doing any kind of formatting with headings, etc. The business of having to figure out when to interact and when you don't need to interact with an element on the screen with a Mac is crazy making. Plus, it is one of the strangest keystrokes I have ever heard of, Control+Shift+Options+down arrow to interact and Control+Shift+Options+up arrow to stop interacting. HTH, Richard -Original Message- From: viphone@googlegroups.com mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Haya Simkin guide dog Pammy Sent: Friday, May 16, 2014 2:35 AM To: viphone@googlegroups.com mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com Subject: Computer vs. I device Hi folks, I hope this isn't too ot. I'm considering buying my first laptop. What do you use a computer for that an ode vice can't do? Also, is VoiceOver any different on a Mac than on an iPhone? How does it compare with jaws? Unlike the iPhone, does it know Hebrew? Can it cope with it if knows Hebrew Braille but doesn't have an appropriate voice synthesizer? Again, I hope this isn't too OT. Haya Simkin guide dog Pammy Sent from my iPhone -- The following information is important for all members of the viphone list. All new members to the this list are moderated by default. If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself. The archives for this list can be searched at http://www.mail-archive.com/viphone@googlegroups.com/. --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups VIPhone group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send
Re: Computer vs. I device
Certainly, Macs are not for everyone. I say they offer more productivity because: * it's easy to assign custom keyboard shortcuts to menu items * you can type out symbols like bullet, degrees, and so on with no special characters panel or anything * there are commands to transpose two characters, delete by word and line, and more * Applescript lets you do a *lot*. For instance, a friend wanted to be able to type in a term, have his sent mail folder searched, and copy all the addresses any matching emails were sent to copied out. In 45 minutes, I wrote up a script to do exactly that. * VoiceOver includes several commanders that let you do tons of things in tons of ways, all customizable Yes, Windows has the Mac beat in other areas. Chicken Nugget is a great Twitter client, and other software from Q-continuum.net is Windows-only. Word is better in some ways and is a better choice for some people. Overall, though, it is up to the individual to do the research, talk to users of both, and figure out which is best. My feeling, though, is that anyone who needs to do a lot of typing or run desktop-only apps should not try to force an iOS device into the role of a computer. They are meant for different things, so both should be used if possible. On May 16, 2014, at 12:50 PM, Richard Turner rich...@turner42.com wrote: Alex, Thanks for the resources. Macs are more productive for you. I have used computers since the Commodore 64 in the early 1980's. For me personally, I find Windows a more productive environment but I know there are tons of Mac users that feel the same about Macs. I'm very glad that both exist along with Linux and whatever else is out there. One size does not fit all and I'm not saying one is always better than the other, I was merely expressing a personal statement in response to a question. I have already referred a client to the list of resources you gave and will continue to encourage folks to find the system that works best for them. But I Will say, the iPhone is the best portable device since sliced bread, grin. Richard' From: viphone@googlegroups.com [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Alex Hall Sent: Friday, May 16, 2014 7:38 AM To: viphone@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: Computer vs. I device Macs are better for productivity, partly because they are faster, partly because they offer full keyboards, and partly because they have tons of keyboard shortcuts. Plus, if a menu option lacks a shortcut, you can assign one yourself. I use my iOS device for RSS, mail, games, book-reading, and tons more. I use my Mac for some of the same, plus app development, audio editing, heavy typing, easier web browsing, and more efficient versions of things I do on iOS. For instance, on a Mac, deleting some emails is as easy as shift-arrowing along the list, then pressing delete. On iOS, you double tap edit, double tap each message after flicking to it, then double tap trash. Macs are way different, but not better or worse. They beat Windows in some areas, and Windows beats them in some areas. Interaction is a big part of the mac, but it is not at all crazy-making past the first month of constant use. You eventually know that some items require interaction and some don't, and you're done. Also, with Trackpad Commander, you can do a two-finger flick right to interact, and left to stop interacting. Or, assign the two commands to a keyboard or numpad commander to make it easier, or use Quick Nav. The OP, and anyone else confused about Macs, should read the following articles: Common Mac myths: http://www.applevis.com/blog/apple-mac-os-x/debunking-common-myths-about-voiceover-mac Getting started with VoiceOver: http://www.applevis.com/guides/accessories/getting-started-your-mac-using-voiceover Plus the other guides and articles on the Applevis page for new Mac users: http://www.applevis.com//new-to-mac On May 16, 2014, at 9:37 AM, Richard Turner rich...@turner42.com wrote: The only things I do on the computer that I don't do on the iPhone are: Word process editing. It is so much easier to deal with Word on a PC than doing any real editing and formatting on an iDevice. Audio editing with GoldWave. Web site creation and maintenance Excel spreadsheets Pretty much everything else I mostly do with the iPhone; banking, web searches, Email, looking up definitions, and much more. I also think Microsoft word is far, far easier to use than any word processing on a Mac. Especially if you are doing any kind of formatting with headings, etc. The business of having to figure out when to interact and when you don't need to interact with an element on the screen with a Mac is crazy making. Plus, it is one of the strangest keystrokes I have ever heard of, Control+Shift+Options+down arrow to interact and Control+Shift+Options+up arrow to stop interacting. HTH, Richard
Re: Computer vs. I device
oMg!... the bit about the mail is classic, do real work on a real Pc and the more casual stuff on the iOs device. This pretty well sums up what I was trying to put over; so there's at least 3 of us now saying approximately the same. RobH. - Original Message - From: Alex Hall mehg...@icloud.com To: viphone@googlegroups.com Sent: Friday, May 16, 2014 3:38 PM Subject: Re: Computer vs. I device Macs are better for productivity, partly because they are faster, partly because they offer full keyboards, and partly because they have tons of keyboard shortcuts. Plus, if a menu option lacks a shortcut, you can assign one yourself. I use my iOS device for RSS, mail, games, book-reading, and tons more. I use my Mac for some of the same, plus app development, audio editing, heavy typing, easier web browsing, and more efficient versions of things I do on iOS. For instance, on a Mac, deleting some emails is as easy as shift-arrowing along the list, then pressing delete. On iOS, you double tap edit, double tap each message after flicking to it, then double tap trash. Macs are way different, but not better or worse. They beat Windows in some areas, and Windows beats them in some areas. Interaction is a big part of the mac, but it is not at all crazy-making past the first month of constant use. You eventually know that some items require interaction and some don't, and you're done. Also, with Trackpad Commander, you can do a two-finger flick right to interact, and left to stop interacting. Or, assign the two commands to a keyboard or numpad commander to make it easier, or use Quick Nav. The OP, and anyone else confused about Macs, should read the following articles: Common Mac myths: http://www.applevis.com/blog/apple-mac-os-x/debunking-common-myths-about-voiceover-mac Getting started with VoiceOver: http://www.applevis.com/guides/accessories/getting-started-your-mac-using-voiceover Plus the other guides and articles on the Applevis page for new Mac users: http://www.applevis.com//new-to-mac On May 16, 2014, at 9:37 AM, Richard Turner rich...@turner42.com wrote: The only things I do on the computer that I don't do on the iPhone are: Word process editing. It is so much easier to deal with Word on a PC than doing any real editing and formatting on an iDevice. Audio editing with GoldWave. Web site creation and maintenance Excel spreadsheets Pretty much everything else I mostly do with the iPhone; banking, web searches, Email, looking up definitions, and much more. I also think Microsoft word is far, far easier to use than any word processing on a Mac. Especially if you are doing any kind of formatting with headings, etc. The business of having to figure out when to interact and when you don't need to interact with an element on the screen with a Mac is crazy making. Plus, it is one of the strangest keystrokes I have ever heard of, Control+Shift+Options+down arrow to interact and Control+Shift+Options+up arrow to stop interacting. HTH, Richard -Original Message- From: viphone@googlegroups.com [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Haya Simkin guide dog Pammy Sent: Friday, May 16, 2014 2:35 AM To: viphone@googlegroups.com Subject: Computer vs. I device Hi folks, I hope this isn't too ot. I'm considering buying my first laptop. What do you use a computer for that an ode vice can't do? Also, is VoiceOver any different on a Mac than on an iPhone? How does it compare with jaws? Unlike the iPhone, does it know Hebrew? Can it cope with it if knows Hebrew Braille but doesn't have an appropriate voice synthesizer? Again, I hope this isn't too OT. Haya Simkin guide dog Pammy Sent from my iPhone -- The following information is important for all members of the viphone list. All new members to the this list are moderated by default. If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself. The archives for this list can be searched at http://www.mail-archive.com/viphone@googlegroups.com/. --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups VIPhone group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to viphone@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/viphone. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- The following information is important for all members of the viphone list. All new members to the this list are moderated by default. If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself. The archives
Re: Computer vs. I device
What about my other questions? Haya Simkin guide dog Pammy Sent from my iPhone On May 16, 2014, at 19:50, Richard Turner rich...@turner42.com wrote: Alex, Thanks for the resources. Macs are more productive for you. I have used computers since the Commodore 64 in the early 1980’s. For me personally, I find Windows a more productive environment but I know there are tons of Mac users that feel the same about Macs. I’m very glad that both exist along with Linux and whatever else is out there. One size does not fit all and I’m not saying one is always better than the other, I was merely expressing a personal statement in response to a question. I have already referred a client to the list of resources you gave and will continue to encourage folks to find the system that works best for them. But I Will say, the iPhone is the best portable device since sliced bread, grin. Richard’ From: viphone@googlegroups.com [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Alex Hall Sent: Friday, May 16, 2014 7:38 AM To: viphone@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: Computer vs. I device Macs are better for productivity, partly because they are faster, partly because they offer full keyboards, and partly because they have tons of keyboard shortcuts. Plus, if a menu option lacks a shortcut, you can assign one yourself. I use my iOS device for RSS, mail, games, book-reading, and tons more. I use my Mac for some of the same, plus app development, audio editing, heavy typing, easier web browsing, and more efficient versions of things I do on iOS. For instance, on a Mac, deleting some emails is as easy as shift-arrowing along the list, then pressing delete. On iOS, you double tap edit, double tap each message after flicking to it, then double tap trash. Macs are way different, but not better or worse. They beat Windows in some areas, and Windows beats them in some areas. Interaction is a big part of the mac, but it is not at all crazy-making past the first month of constant use. You eventually know that some items require interaction and some don't, and you're done. Also, with Trackpad Commander, you can do a two-finger flick right to interact, and left to stop interacting. Or, assign the two commands to a keyboard or numpad commander to make it easier, or use Quick Nav. The OP, and anyone else confused about Macs, should read the following articles: Common Mac myths: http://www.applevis.com/blog/apple-mac-os-x/debunking-common-myths-about-voiceover-mac Getting started with VoiceOver: http://www.applevis.com/guides/accessories/getting-started-your-mac-using-voiceover Plus the other guides and articles on the Applevis page for new Mac users: http://www.applevis.com//new-to-mac On May 16, 2014, at 9:37 AM, Richard Turner rich...@turner42.com wrote: The only things I do on the computer that I don't do on the iPhone are: Word process editing. It is so much easier to deal with Word on a PC than doing any real editing and formatting on an iDevice. Audio editing with GoldWave. Web site creation and maintenance Excel spreadsheets Pretty much everything else I mostly do with the iPhone; banking, web searches, Email, looking up definitions, and much more. I also think Microsoft word is far, far easier to use than any word processing on a Mac. Especially if you are doing any kind of formatting with headings, etc. The business of having to figure out when to interact and when you don't need to interact with an element on the screen with a Mac is crazy making. Plus, it is one of the strangest keystrokes I have ever heard of, Control+Shift+Options+down arrow to interact and Control+Shift+Options+up arrow to stop interacting. HTH, Richard -Original Message- From: viphone@googlegroups.com [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Haya Simkin guide dog Pammy Sent: Friday, May 16, 2014 2:35 AM To: viphone@googlegroups.com Subject: Computer vs. I device Hi folks, I hope this isn't too ot. I'm considering buying my first laptop. What do you use a computer for that an ode vice can't do? Also, is VoiceOver any different on a Mac than on an iPhone? How does it compare with jaws? Unlike the iPhone, does it know Hebrew? Can it cope with it if knows Hebrew Braille but doesn't have an appropriate voice synthesizer? Again, I hope this isn't too OT. Haya Simkin guide dog Pammy Sent from my iPhone -- The following information is important for all members of the viphone list. All new members to the this list are moderated by default. If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself. The archives for this list can be searched at http://www.mail-archive.com/viphone@googlegroups.com/. --- You received this message because you
Re: Computer vs. I device
I have to endorse all this. storage, at an economic price is an issue; and for those who're long time pc users, with tons of material they need to keep; there's nothing to beat your own real hard disk to put it on. USB based secondary ones for backup are good and straight forward too. So a pc still has a big place in our lives, despite the progress on handheld. RobH. - Original Message - From: Alex Hall mehg...@icloud.com To: viphone@googlegroups.com Sent: Friday, May 16, 2014 4:06 PM Subject: Re: Computer vs. I device I strongly encourage you to not give up on it. The automagic syncing of contacts, calendars, reminders, Safari tabs and bookmarks, text expanders, and more makes the Mac a great choice for those using iOS devices. I also can't recommend www.applevis.com highly enough; if you have questions, post them in the forums and you'll usually get helpful answers quite quickly. There is also the email list I'm on: macvisionaries+subscr...@googlegroups.com. Finally, don't forget you can always use a virtual machine solution, or Bootcamp, to put Windows on the Mac if you absolutely need to. To get back on topic, I forgot to mention one other aspect of a computer over iOS: storage space. My iPhone has 16gb of space, which I could max out at 64gb if I had the money and need. However, my Mac Mini has 500gb. I can store all the music, movies, audio projects, podcasts, audio books, applications, and so forth I want to. Even if you have a new Macbook with the smaller, flash-based drives, you have more room than most iOS devices, even at the low end of the Mac line. Macs support external storage (networked or plugged in directly), with no need for special apps. yes, cloud storage can help with some of this, but what happens when the internet goes down or you run out of room? The cheapest cloud storage I know of is Google Drive, and even then, a few years of that and you could have bought a hard drive with more capacity. I understand that cloud storage offers its own advantages, and I do use it all the time. My point is simply that iOS devices and regular computers are meant for two different sets of tasks. If possible, get both, and have the best of both worlds. On May 16, 2014, at 10:55 AM, Kimber Gardner kimbersinbox1...@gmail.com wrote: Thanks for these links. I bought a MacAir a few years ago but couldn't beat the learning curve and gave up on it. I still have it though and one day would like to make the attempt once again. I am an old windows user, like thirty years of windows, and the Mac just beat me. Kimber On 5/16/14, Alex Hall mehg...@icloud.com wrote: Macs are better for productivity, partly because they are faster, partly because they offer full keyboards, and partly because they have tons of keyboard shortcuts. Plus, if a menu option lacks a shortcut, you can assign one yourself. I use my iOS device for RSS, mail, games, book-reading, and tons more. I use my Mac for some of the same, plus app development, audio editing, heavy typing, easier web browsing, and more efficient versions of things I do on iOS. For instance, on a Mac, deleting some emails is as easy as shift-arrowing along the list, then pressing delete. On iOS, you double tap edit, double tap each message after flicking to it, then double tap trash. Macs are way different, but not better or worse. They beat Windows in some areas, and Windows beats them in some areas. Interaction is a big part of the mac, but it is not at all crazy-making past the first month of constant use. You eventually know that some items require interaction and some don't, and you're done. Also, with Trackpad Commander, you can do a two-finger flick right to interact, and left to stop interacting. Or, assign the two commands to a keyboard or numpad commander to make it easier, or use Quick Nav. The OP, and anyone else confused about Macs, should read the following articles: Common Mac myths: http://www.applevis.com/blog/apple-mac-os-x/debunking-common-myths-about-voiceover-mac Getting started with VoiceOver: http://www.applevis.com/guides/accessories/getting-started-your-mac-using-voiceover Plus the other guides and articles on the Applevis page for new Mac users: http://www.applevis.com//new-to-mac On May 16, 2014, at 9:37 AM, Richard Turner rich...@turner42.com wrote: The only things I do on the computer that I don't do on the iPhone are: Word process editing. It is so much easier to deal with Word on a PC than doing any real editing and formatting on an iDevice. Audio editing with GoldWave. Web site creation and maintenance Excel spreadsheets Pretty much everything else I mostly do with the iPhone; banking, web searches, Email, looking up definitions, and much more. I also think Microsoft word is far, far easier to use than any word processing on a Mac. Especially if you are doing any kind of formatting with headings, etc. The business of having
Re: Computer vs. I device
Ok, love the foreign language analogy. As good a way of putting it as any. remember, iOs was that different, we managed! BTW: the magic track pad gives you very iOs like access too. RobH. - Original Message - From: 'David Goldfield' via VIPhone deleted for brevity. -- The following information is important for all members of the viphone list. All new members to the this list are moderated by default. If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself. The archives for this list can be searched at http://www.mail-archive.com/viphone@googlegroups.com/. --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups VIPhone group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to viphone@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/viphone. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: Computer vs. I device
Which questions have not yet been answered? With all of the tangential discussion, I don't remember what we may have missed. On May 16, 2014, at 1:23 PM, Haya Simkin guide dog Pammy hayasim...@gmail.com wrote: What about my other questions? Haya Simkin guide dog Pammy Sent from my iPhone On May 16, 2014, at 19:50, Richard Turner rich...@turner42.com wrote: Alex, Thanks for the resources. Macs are more productive for you. I have used computers since the Commodore 64 in the early 1980's. For me personally, I find Windows a more productive environment but I know there are tons of Mac users that feel the same about Macs. I'm very glad that both exist along with Linux and whatever else is out there. One size does not fit all and I'm not saying one is always better than the other, I was merely expressing a personal statement in response to a question. I have already referred a client to the list of resources you gave and will continue to encourage folks to find the system that works best for them. But I Will say, the iPhone is the best portable device since sliced bread, grin. Richard' From: viphone@googlegroups.com [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Alex Hall Sent: Friday, May 16, 2014 7:38 AM To: viphone@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: Computer vs. I device Macs are better for productivity, partly because they are faster, partly because they offer full keyboards, and partly because they have tons of keyboard shortcuts. Plus, if a menu option lacks a shortcut, you can assign one yourself. I use my iOS device for RSS, mail, games, book-reading, and tons more. I use my Mac for some of the same, plus app development, audio editing, heavy typing, easier web browsing, and more efficient versions of things I do on iOS. For instance, on a Mac, deleting some emails is as easy as shift-arrowing along the list, then pressing delete. On iOS, you double tap edit, double tap each message after flicking to it, then double tap trash. Macs are way different, but not better or worse. They beat Windows in some areas, and Windows beats them in some areas. Interaction is a big part of the mac, but it is not at all crazy-making past the first month of constant use. You eventually know that some items require interaction and some don't, and you're done. Also, with Trackpad Commander, you can do a two-finger flick right to interact, and left to stop interacting. Or, assign the two commands to a keyboard or numpad commander to make it easier, or use Quick Nav. The OP, and anyone else confused about Macs, should read the following articles: Common Mac myths: http://www.applevis.com/blog/apple-mac-os-x/debunking-common-myths-about-voiceover-mac Getting started with VoiceOver: http://www.applevis.com/guides/accessories/getting-started-your-mac-using-voiceover Plus the other guides and articles on the Applevis page for new Mac users: http://www.applevis.com//new-to-mac On May 16, 2014, at 9:37 AM, Richard Turner rich...@turner42.com wrote: The only things I do on the computer that I don't do on the iPhone are: Word process editing. It is so much easier to deal with Word on a PC than doing any real editing and formatting on an iDevice. Audio editing with GoldWave. Web site creation and maintenance Excel spreadsheets Pretty much everything else I mostly do with the iPhone; banking, web searches, Email, looking up definitions, and much more. I also think Microsoft word is far, far easier to use than any word processing on a Mac. Especially if you are doing any kind of formatting with headings, etc. The business of having to figure out when to interact and when you don't need to interact with an element on the screen with a Mac is crazy making. Plus, it is one of the strangest keystrokes I have ever heard of, Control+Shift+Options+down arrow to interact and Control+Shift+Options+up arrow to stop interacting. HTH, Richard -Original Message- From: viphone@googlegroups.com [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Haya Simkin guide dog Pammy Sent: Friday, May 16, 2014 2:35 AM To: viphone@googlegroups.com Subject: Computer vs. I device Hi folks, I hope this isn't too ot. I'm considering buying my first laptop. What do you use a computer for that an ode vice can't do? Also, is VoiceOver any different on a Mac than on an iPhone? How does it compare with jaws? Unlike the iPhone, does it know Hebrew? Can it cope with it if knows Hebrew Braille but doesn't have an appropriate voice synthesizer? Again, I hope this isn't too OT. Haya Simkin guide dog Pammy Sent from my iPhone -- The following information is important for all members of the viphone list. All new members to the this list are moderated by default. If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please
Re: Computer vs. I device
Sorry, you're right, we only answered the bits we had much clue about. A Mac has VoiceOver provided as part of the system, like iOs. windows would need open wallet surgery to buy JAWS. No idea about hebrew, do we know if JAWS can do that even? rh. - Original Message - From: Haya Simkin guide dog Pammy hayasim...@gmail.com To: viphone@googlegroups.com Sent: Friday, May 16, 2014 6:23 PM Subject: Re: Computer vs. I device What about my other questions? Haya Simkin guide dog Pammy -- The following information is important for all members of the viphone list. All new members to the this list are moderated by default. If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself. The archives for this list can be searched at http://www.mail-archive.com/viphone@googlegroups.com/. --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups VIPhone group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to viphone@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/viphone. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: Computer vs. I device
I'm not sure, sorry. I think Apple can answer that, though, if you give them a call. On May 16, 2014, at 1:48 PM, RobH. bobs...@googlemail.com wrote: Sorry, you're right, we only answered the bits we had much clue about. A Mac has VoiceOver provided as part of the system, like iOs. windows would need open wallet surgery to buy JAWS. No idea about hebrew, do we know if JAWS can do that even? rh. - Original Message - From: Haya Simkin guide dog Pammy hayasim...@gmail.com To: viphone@googlegroups.com Sent: Friday, May 16, 2014 6:23 PM Subject: Re: Computer vs. I device What about my other questions? Haya Simkin guide dog Pammy -- The following information is important for all members of the viphone list. All new members to the this list are moderated by default. If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself. The archives for this list can be searched at http://www.mail-archive.com/viphone@googlegroups.com/. --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups VIPhone group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to viphone@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/viphone. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- Have a great day, Alex Hall mehg...@icloud.com -- The following information is important for all members of the viphone list. All new members to the this list are moderated by default. If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself. The archives for this list can be searched at http://www.mail-archive.com/viphone@googlegroups.com/. --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups VIPhone group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to viphone@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/viphone. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
