Re: [Vo]:http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/01/090127131654.htm
In reply to grok's message of Mon, 23 Mar 2009 17:59:36 -0700: Hi, [snip] I always knew there was a way to burn up all that fission waste product (million-year storage my hairy ass...) What about all the containment vessels and tubing and equipment damaged by neutron bombardment? That's some huge mass of junk by now, ain't it? [snip] Yes it is, but most of those isotopes have relatively short half lives (compared to the actinides). BTW don't let this post fool you. I am no protagonist of nuclear fission, but if the worst comes to the worst, and we have to use it, then this seems to me, like a better method than that proposed in the article I was replying to. Regards, Robin van Spaandonk http://rvanspaa.freehostia.com/Project.html
Re: [Vo]:Fear and Loathing in Las Vortex
In reply to Kyle Mcallister's message of Mon, 23 Mar 2009 15:53:48 -0700 (PDT): Hi Kyle, [snip] Alright, if Morton's experiment (which I seem to have shot down in my own research, will post more if any interest) is not worth discussing, let's talk cold fusion. What can I do? I'm giving no one any money. The opportunities have been essentially wasted for two decades. Positive here, negatives here, uh, need better calorimeter here, let's look for ash here, to burn/recombine or not burn/recombine, x-rays here? Neutrons? Er, what's the theory behind it? /Can we build a damn thing that will make a cup of warm coffee or tea?/ If not, why not??? I suspect not. CF (or LENR) is finicky, and no one is yet certain of the precise requirements (though there are now a few claims of complete replicability). Those who can achieve it have been trying for quite a while to get it right. Even then, I think a reasonably well equipped lab is a prerequisite. It's not something you can do in your garage, and expect to work. Regards, Robin van Spaandonk http://rvanspaa.freehostia.com/Project.html
Re: [Vo]:Fear and Loathing in Las Vortex
mix...@bigpond.com wrote: In reply to Kyle Mcallister's message of Mon, 23 Mar 2009 15:53:48 -0700 (PDT): /Can we build a damn thing that will make a cup of warm coffee or tea?/ If not, why not??? I suspect not. CF (or LENR) is finicky, and no one is yet certain of the precise requirements (though there are now a few claims of complete replicability). Those who can achieve it have been trying for quite a while to get it right. Even then, I think a reasonably well equipped lab is a prerequisite. It's not something you can do in your garage, and expect to work. There is something else as well. There are some reproducible, repeatable experiments which work, if not every time, then a good fraction of the time. But reliability is not what stands in the way of making a tea heater. There are two other problems with making a gadget which does something useful. First, the repeatable experiments all produce very low-grade heat; it's hard to do much with it beyond just detect it. Second, and more important, the same bugaboo that plagues hot fusion is at work here: The best of the wet-cell CF experiments is nowhere near breakeven. With that said, I should add that gas-phase CF at room temperature, which operates without a large external energy source, *might* produce enough heat to run a Stirling engine -- but I don't think so. As I said, these experiments produce low-grade heat; I don't think the heat output of the gas-phase experiments is large enough to do that.
Re: [Vo]:Fear and Loathing in Las Vortex
Stephen A. Lawrence wrote: mix...@bigpond.com wrote: In reply to Kyle Mcallister's message of Mon, 23 Mar 2009 15:53:48 -0700 (PDT): /Can we build a damn thing that will make a cup of warm coffee or tea?/ If not, why not??? I suspect not. CF (or LENR) is finicky, and no one is yet certain of the precise requirements (though there are now a few claims of complete replicability). Those who can achieve it have been trying for quite a while to get it right. Even then, I think a reasonably well equipped lab is a prerequisite. It's not something you can do in your garage, and expect to work. There is something else as well. There are some reproducible, repeatable experiments which work, if not every time, then a good fraction of the time. But reliability is not what stands in the way of making a tea heater. There are two other problems with making a gadget which does something useful. First, the repeatable experiments all produce very low-grade heat; it's hard to do much with it beyond just detect it. Second, and more important, the same bugaboo that plagues hot fusion is at work here: The best of the wet-cell CF experiments is nowhere near breakeven. With that said, I should add that gas-phase CF at room temperature, which operates without a large external energy source, *might* produce enough heat to run a Stirling engine -- but I don't think so. As I said, these experiments produce low-grade heat; I don't think the heat output of the gas-phase experiments is large enough to do that. In fact, IIRC the gas-phase experiments start with compressed D2. If we account for the energy used compressing the gas then they're also well below break-even (never mind the energy cost of refining the D2, which is also far from free). It will be a red letter day when *any* controlled fusion experiment, hot, cold, or luke-warm, passes breakeven on the operating energy budget. (By the operating energy budget, I mean, not including the cost of fabricating the system -- just the cost of making the fuel and operating the reactor).
[Vo]:The Mueller Motor
Vortexians; I read the first chapter of this book. It talks about the Mueller Motor. I corresponded with Mr. Mueller in the '90's I didn't heard any more from him. The book mentions the use of his motor as a generator for wind machines. This is an application, which is so obvious, that the failure of anyone to do anything about makes me question the veracity of his claims. http://www.breakthroughpower.net/Home.html --- Get FREE High Speed Internet from USFamily.Net! -- http://www.usfamily.net/mkt-freepromo.html ---
[Vo]:Inertial Propulsion
Anyone know what become of Robert L Cook? His web site has been closed circa Dec 2007 but is available on archive.org (see forceborne.com)? Also, I noticed in the Laithwaite patents (approved posthumously) there is a claim of IP. Anyone know of someone pursuing Eric's ideas? Terry
Re: [Vo]:Mizuno reports from ACS
Yikes! Do we actually have a positive article in Scientific American??!? (Lizabeth, this is the big one, I'm coming to see you.): http://www.sciam.com/blog/60-second-science/post.cfm?id=after-20-years-new-life-for-cold-fu-2009-03-23 Terry On Mon, Mar 23, 2009 at 3:43 PM, Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.com wrote: I am in Atlanta. Mizuno called me from the ACS conference in Salt Lake City to say hello. He is going to present this afternoon. He says there are many people attending the sessions, including young people. He says Kitamura et al. independently replicated Arata, and will report on his findings today. They used better calorimetry than Arata did. The abstract is here: http://oasys2.confex.com/acs/237nm/techprogram/P1218224.HTM Copy of abstract (which Steve I already uploaded): Deuterium gas charging experiments with Pd powders for excess heat evolution Akira Kitamura,, Takayoshi Nohmi, Yu Sasaki, Tatsuya Yamaguchi, Akira Taniike, Akito Takahashi, Reiko Seto, and Yushi Fujita. Graduate School of Maritime Sciences, Kobe University, 5-1-1 Fukaeminamimachi, Higashinadaku, Kobe, 658-0022, Japan Technova Inc, 1-1-1 Uchisaiwaicho, Chiyodaku, Tokyo, 100-0011, Japan We have started a series of deuterium (and hydrogen) gas charging experiments with Pd nano-powders to study possible heat evolution and D (or H)-loading characteristics by using a revised Arata-type twin system. The twin system is made of identically designed A1 and A2 systems, in each of which an inner gas-charging cell with flow calorimeter and an outer vacuum chamber are set up. The A1 system is used for D-gas foreground run, and the A2 system is for the H-gas blank run. Our first data with two commercially available Pd powders (0.1 micron Pd particles and Pd-black) are already meaningful. Experiments with Pd-black sample gave 2.6 kJ/g-Pd excess heat for the second phase of 1,300 minutes operation and D/Pd=0.85 for the first phase (about 100 min interval from start) with zero D-gas pressure. No excess heat with H-gas charging was seen with H/Pd=0.78. Experiments with 0.1 micron Pd powders gave D/Pd =0.45 for the first phase and much less excess heat for the second phase. We are extending experiments for nano-fabricated Pd samples to be reported at the meeting. In situ radiation monitors are for neutron and gamma-ray. Elemental analysis of before/after samples is done by PIXE. He detection will be also tried. Here is a recent paper from this group about an Iwamura replication: http://www.lenr-canr.org/acrobat/YamaguchiTinvestigat.pdf - Jed
Re: [Vo]:Fear and Loathing in Las Vortex
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 As the smoke cleared, mix...@bigpond.com mix...@bigpond.com mounted the barricade and roared out: /Can we build a damn thing that will make a cup of warm coffee or tea?/ If not, why not??? I suspect not. CF (or LENR) is finicky, and no one is yet certain of the precise requirements (though there are now a few claims of complete replicability). Those who can achieve it have been trying for quite a while to get it right. Even then, I think a reasonably well equipped lab is a prerequisite. It's not something you can do in your garage, and expect to work. But the Mylow HoJoRotor is _exactly_ the kind of thing you can do in your garage -- or on the kitchen table, even. However, people are flat-out stating that the magnets are giving up their magnetic energy as they de-magnetize. If this be the case -- then there indeed 'no free lunch', as far as magnets are concerned. At least in this case. - -- grok. - -- *** FULL-SPECTRUM FIGHTBACK! *** * In advance of the Revolution: * Get facts get organized * * Fight the Man! * thru these sites movements * * http://badcopnodonut.fm BAD COP, NO DONUT! * * http://www.warprofiteers.com CorpWatch: War Profiteers * * http://www.thedossier.ukonline.co.uk The DOSSIER: War on Terror * * http://debtslavery.org DebtSlavery.org * * http://www.sweetjesusihatebilloreilly.comBill O'Reilly Watch * * http://www.education-action.net Canadian Fed of Students Québec * * http://mpp.org Marijuana Policy Project * ** NEW-WORLD-ORDER-SPEAK: Structural Adjustment == LoanSharking ** GPG fingerprint = 2E7F 2D69 4B0B C8D5 07E3 09C3 5E8D C4B4 461B B771 -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) iEYEARECAAYFAknJLHoACgkQXo3EtEYbt3HjaQCgnUO8HtCitIPIxG4v9gLl3Ey0 bzIAmwfjLUU+ZhbY27hFpPxFhzaObOpQ =5d28 -END PGP SIGNATURE-
Re: [Vo]:Inertial Propulsion
--- Terry Blanton hohlr...@gmail.com wrote: Anyone know what become of Robert L Cook? His web site has been closed circa Dec 2007 but is available on archive.org (see forceborne.com)? Don't know much about Cook, myself. Also, I noticed in the Laithwaite patents (approved posthumously) there is a claim of IP. Laithwaite's trolley? Precess a mass one way, drag it back nonprecessing the other way, slinky your way through space. The only problem seems to be, from reading the patent (Laithwaite Dawson) and from a little thought experimenting, that the device does not accelerate; merely ratchets its way through space. Precess mass to right, no force generated (what Laithwaite etc. claim) Stop the precession, no counterforce. Drag mass back inertially, reaction force on device. Stop the mass, reaction force cancels first acceleration, halting device's motion. You've moved a bit to the right. Repeat. Velocity is limited by the mass ratio of the precessing gyro mass to the ratio of the drive mechanism, by the speed at which it is inertially moved back, and probably a few other minor factors. Assuming it even works. It will be damn near useless for space travel, in this case, and perhaps dangerous; that much ratcheting acceleration/deceleration would probably not be healthy for crew or spaceframe. Anyone know of someone pursuing Eric's ideas? I am. There *seems* to be something possibly going on, but what, I am not certain. The lazy man's way of looking at this gyro business is to accept the theory without questioning it. Which, once you really start digging into it, is so stupid it is almost unreal that the conventional explanation is acceptable. Laithwaite's ideas about reactive mass (analogous to reactive power in an electrical circuit) are something to think about. His Ohm's law analogy makes a scignostic (scientific agnostic...meaning, one who does not hold to a particular part of the religion of science being absolutely immutable and true) start to wonder. Coil of wire, resistance 4 ohms. Put AC in it, looks like the resistance is say, 16 ohms. Why? Is Ohm's law wrong? No, we didn't factor in inductance. Is Newton's 3rd wrong? No. We just might not have factored in something else. If you'd like me to go further with this, just say the word. I've done a number of experiments, and don't mind talking about them. --Kyle --Kyle
Re: [Vo]:Mizuno reports from ACS
Yikes! Do we actually have a positive article in Scientific American??!? (Lizabeth, this is the big one, I'm coming to see you.): http://www.sciam.com/blog/60-second-science/post.cfm?id=after-20- years-new-life-for-cold-fu-2009-03-23 Terry video link from the same page Is Dark EnergyAn Illusion? New observations have led astronomers to suggest that Copernicus may have been wrong and the Earth does have a special place in the universe: at the center of a gigantic cosmic void. http://www.sciam.com/video.cfm?id=17285482001lineup=1406165298 Harry
Re: [Vo]:Inertial Propulsion
In reply to Kyle Mcallister's message of Tue, 24 Mar 2009 15:02:18 -0700 (PDT): Hi, [snip] Laithwaite's trolley? Precess a mass one way, drag it back nonprecessing the other way, slinky your way through space. The only problem seems to be, from reading the patent (Laithwaite Dawson) and from a little thought experimenting, that the device does not accelerate; merely ratchets its way through space. Precess mass to right, no force generated (what Laithwaite etc. claim) Stop the precession, no counterforce. Drag mass back inertially, reaction force on device. Stop the mass, reaction force cancels first acceleration, halting device's motion. You've moved a bit to the right. Repeat. [snip] Since a = f/m, and m is constant, if there is a force in one direction only, then that force should accelerate the mass while it operates. That acceleration should increase the speed, which should then remain constant until the next acceleration pulse. IOW the speed should increase in steps. Regards, Robin van Spaandonk http://rvanspaa.freehostia.com/Project.html
Re: [Vo]:Inertial Propulsion
--- mix...@bigpond.com wrote: Since a = f/m, and m is constant, if there is a force in one direction only, then that force should accelerate the mass while it operates. That acceleration should increase the speed, which should then remain constant until the next acceleration pulse. IOW the speed should increase in steps. It may be that there is a way to make it accelerate. I don't know. But what Laithwaite/Dawson say, and as far as I can tell, what happens in their setup is this: 1. Mass M is moved say 10 units to the right by precession, thus (supposedly) forcelessly. F=0 at this point. 2. M is moved back to the left, to the starting point inertially. As it accelerates, the trolley moves to the right, say, ultimately 2 units. Velocity of the entire system is towards the right. 3. When M reaches the starting point, it is stopped, decelerating, thus cancelling the previous acceleration. The velocity is now zero again, but the trolley is 2 units to the right. 4. Repeat. Each cycle, the velocity ends as zero, but a 'net' constant velocity is attained based on the acceleration imparted to M, and its mass ratio versus the rest of the trolley. As far as I see, there is not a net gain in velocity over time, so no additive acceleration. You get 'displacement' over time, however, each cycle moving the trolley's center of mass 2 units to the right. Assuming, of course, that it does work. I don't know if it does or not. --Kyle
Re: [Vo]:Fear and Loathing in Las Vortex
--- Stephen A. Lawrence sa...@pobox.com wrote: I suspect not. CF (or LENR) is finicky, and no one is yet certain of the precise requirements (though there are now a few claims of complete replicability). Those who can achieve it have been trying for quite a while to get it right. Even then, I think a reasonably well equipped lab is a prerequisite. It's not something you can do in your garage, and expect to work. Saying it can't be done in a garage is going a bit too far. It depends on /what/ one has in his/her garage. People are building fusors in their garages. It takes brains, determination, cunning in designing with what you can scrounge, someone to listen (hard to get), and motivation. There is something else as well. There are some reproducible, repeatable experiments which work, if not every time, then a good fraction of the time. But reliability is not what stands in the way of making a tea heater. There are two other problems with making a gadget which does something useful. OK. Exactly how do we set up the reproducible experiments, what specific (read: NOT unobtainium) substances were used, etc.? Why do we not concentrate almost exclusively on that which we KNOW works, and expand upon that? Make variations of this one setup that demonstrates excess heat, eventually using materials from different sources, testing equipment from different manufacturers, and so on, and then toss that into the public eye? Second, and more important, the same bugaboo that plagues hot fusion is at work here: The best of the wet-cell CF experiments is nowhere near breakeven. It's as bad as all that? Why the hatred towards hot fusion by the cold fusioneers? Seems neither is doing well. The late Bussard's group a possible exception, I am watching that one with great interest. I will say this: an army of willing amateurs is nothing to sneeze at. --Kyle
Re: [Vo]:Fear and Loathing in Las Vortex
--- grok g...@resist.ca wrote: But the Mylow HoJoRotor is _exactly_ the kind of thing you can do in your garage -- or on the kitchen table, even. However, people are flat-out stating that the magnets are giving up their magnetic energy as they de-magnetize. If this be the case -- then there indeed 'no free lunch', as far as magnets are concerned. At least in this case. I haven't read much about Johnson's motor, but I will listen to the MP3 Esa provided a link to. If (BIG if) the thing does work, I'd doubt the magnets giving up their magnetization would provide enough energy to keep the rotor spinning for any significant length of time. It doesn't take much energy to magnetize a chunk of ferrous material. If the thing runs more than a few minutes, it would seem to rule that out. Which would be a good thing. I'm a bit leery of messing with magnetic motors, as I remember the Greg Watson disaster from years back. But what the hell? I'll give it a listen. Lord knows I got enough magnets wandering around this place... --Kyle
Re: [Vo]:Inertial Propulsion
Kyle Mcallister wrote: --- mix...@bigpond.com wrote: Since a = f/m, and m is constant, if there is a force in one direction only, then that force should accelerate the mass while it operates. That acceleration should increase the speed, which should then remain constant until the next acceleration pulse. IOW the speed should increase in steps. It may be that there is a way to make it accelerate. I don't know. But what Laithwaite/Dawson say, and as far as I can tell, what happens in their setup is this: 1. Mass M is moved say 10 units to the right by precession, thus (supposedly) forcelessly. F=0 at this point. This is a neat trick. If you can do this you've already shattered Newton's laws, no need to go any farther. Note that the center of gravity of a top or gyroscope does not move forcelessly as a result of precession, not with a conventional gyro operating with conventional physics, anyway. There's a lateral force on the support which is equal and opposite to the force needed to accelerate the center of mass as it precesses. Of course, when the Earth precesses, it does it without any support -- but in fact it also does it without shifting its center of mass. Rather, the axis of rotation shifts, while leaving the Earth's center of mass traveling uniformly along its orbital path. (Furthermore, if you took the Sun and Moon out of the picture the Earth wouldn't precess. The external force acting on it is necessary to make the precession go.) 2. M is moved back to the left, to the starting point inertially. As it accelerates, the trolley moves to the right, say, ultimately 2 units. Velocity of the entire system is towards the right. 3. When M reaches the starting point, it is stopped, decelerating, thus cancelling the previous acceleration. The velocity is now zero again, but the trolley is 2 units to the right. 4. Repeat. Each cycle, the velocity ends as zero, but a 'net' constant velocity is attained based on the acceleration imparted to M, and its mass ratio versus the rest of the trolley. As far as I see, there is not a net gain in velocity over time, so no additive acceleration. You get 'displacement' over time, however, each cycle moving the trolley's center of mass 2 units to the right. Assuming, of course, that it does work. I don't know if it does or not. --Kyle
Re: [Vo]:Fear and Loathing in Las Vortex
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 As the smoke cleared, Kyle Mcallister kyle_mcallis...@yahoo.com mounted the barricade and roared out: I haven't read much about Johnson's motor, but I will listen to the MP3 Esa provided a link to. If (BIG if) the thing does work, I'd doubt the magnets giving up their magnetization would provide enough energy to keep the rotor spinning for any significant length of time. It doesn't take much energy to magnetize a chunk of ferrous material. If the thing runs more than a few minutes, it would seem to rule that out. Which would be a good thing. I understand Mylow ran the thing continuously at least overnight -- say, 18 hours ( a sheer educated guess). As far as I´m concerned at this point, the fact that iron magnets lose their domains so easily does not necessarily have any bearing on the phenomenon at hand. Unless it´s a well-known fact otherwise, I could as easily believe that a stronger magnet would behave more like the Energizer Bunny -- and do even more ¨work¨ -- yet _keep_ its finely-honed edge. i.e.: you could use _balsa wood_ as a brake -- but it would wear out quickly. So why would you complain that wood, by nature, makes a lousy brake..? Or even claim that braking breaks the laws of fyzix -- as proven by this ¨fact¨..? - -- grok. I'm a bit leery of messing with magnetic motors, as I remember the Greg Watson disaster from years back. But what the hell? I'll give it a listen. Lord knows I got enough magnets wandering around this place... --Kyle A shame I know nothing about this. But Good Things happen in 2 groups of three... ;P - -- grok. - -- ** FULL-SPECTRUM DOMINANCE! * BOYCOTT BOURGEOIS * DOWNLOAD THESE ALTERNATIVE MEDIA * *MASS-MEDIA * FEATURE PRESENTATIONS: * Critical endorsement only Most sites need donations * Malcolm X speeches * * http://www.brothermalcolm.net/mxwords/whathesaidarchive.html * * http://www.tarpley.net/bushb.htm George Bush Sr: Unauthorized Bio* * http://www.merchantsofdeception.com Amway: Masters of Deception * STOP THE FTAA: DEMOCRACY BEFORE TRADE GPG fingerprint = 2E7F 2D69 4B0B C8D5 07E3 09C3 5E8D C4B4 461B B771 -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) iEYEARECAAYFAknJnD0ACgkQXo3EtEYbt3FBygCdFrwcTYTSZDE9f0T8GsFpnIj7 w+MAnAqpdSiFVX4vO0yddLA5BbQ7Crii =ma30 -END PGP SIGNATURE-
Re: [Vo]:Fear and Loathing in Las Vortex
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 As the smoke cleared, Stephen A. Lawrence sa...@pobox.com mounted the barricade and roared out: With that said, I should add that gas-phase CF at room temperature, which operates without a large external energy source, *might* produce enough heat to run a Stirling engine -- but I don't think so. As I said, these experiments produce low-grade heat; I don't think the heat output of the gas-phase experiments is large enough to do that. In fact, IIRC the gas-phase experiments start with compressed D2. If we account for the energy used compressing the gas then they're also well below break-even (never mind the energy cost of refining the D2, which is also far from free). It will be a red letter day when *any* controlled fusion experiment, hot, cold, or luke-warm, passes breakeven on the operating energy budget. (By the operating energy budget, I mean, not including the cost of fabricating the system -- just the cost of making the fuel and operating the reactor). The success of this tek appears to have everything to do with the geometry -- related to the composition -- of the Palladium electrodes. And then how these electrodes get charged with D2 in a dynamical process. Quite a delicate chain of causality there. No wonder skeptikal experimenters come up snake-eyes: they´re not even really trying. But apparently somebody in the U.S. government is not taking their eyes off this ball... - -- grok. - -- ** FULL-SPECTRUM DOMINANCE! *BOYCOTT BOURGEOIS* Get your news analysis * * MASS-MEDIA:* from the Best on the Web * Critical endorsement only Most sites need donations * http://www.newstandardnews.net The NewStandard News * * http://www.btlonline.org Between The Lines * * http://riseup.net Riseup.Net * * http://www.rise4news.netR.I.S.E. * * http://www.wings.org Women's International News Gathering Service* * http://www.wbaifree.org/takingaim Taking Aim * * http://www.wbai.orgWBAI Pacifica * *** Defence industry is anything but: it is the *WAR* industry *** GPG fingerprint = 2E7F 2D69 4B0B C8D5 07E3 09C3 5E8D C4B4 461B B771 -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) iEYEARECAAYFAknJne4ACgkQXo3EtEYbt3HyewCgqw76Yue1/+gPuRy8DHIxvZnP KT0An1O7lITx1PmCJ7ovgEpJgf6S9/gA =japA -END PGP SIGNATURE-
Re: [Vo]:Inertial Propulsion
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 As the smoke cleared, Kyle Mcallister kyle_mcallis...@yahoo.com mounted the barricade and roared out: Since a = f/m, and m is constant, if there is a force in one direction only, then that force should accelerate the mass while it operates. That acceleration should increase the speed, which should then remain constant until the next acceleration pulse. IOW the speed should increase in steps. It may be that there is a way to make it accelerate. I don't know. But what Laithwaite/Dawson say, and as far as I can tell, what happens in their setup is this: 1. Mass M is moved say 10 units to the right by precession, thus (supposedly) forcelessly. F=0 at this point. 2. M is moved back to the left, to the starting point inertially. As it accelerates, the trolley moves to the right, say, ultimately 2 units. Velocity of the entire system is towards the right. 3. When M reaches the starting point, it is stopped, decelerating, thus cancelling the previous acceleration. The velocity is now zero again, but the trolley is 2 units to the right. 4. Repeat. Each cycle, the velocity ends as zero, but a 'net' constant velocity is attained based on the acceleration imparted to M, and its mass ratio versus the rest of the trolley. As far as I see, there is not a net gain in velocity over time, so no additive acceleration. You get 'displacement' over time, however, each cycle moving the trolley's center of mass 2 units to the right. Assuming, of course, that it does work. I don't know if it does or not. --Kyle Is there an animation of this? There should be. - -- grok. - -- *** FULL-SPECTRUM DOMINANCE! *** * BOYCOTT BOURGEOIS MASS-MEDIA: * McNews: UNfair UNbalanced * * Get mediaworx for your group/Internet/pirate tv/radio station! * Critical endorsement only Most sites need donations *** * http://www.deepdishtv.org/shockingShocking and Awful * * http://hijackingcatastrophe.orgHijacking Catastrophe * * http://www.empowermentproject.org/pages/panama.htmlPanama* * http://www.janisian.com Janis Ian Free MP3s *** Deception * * http://www.activistmediaproject.net Activist Media Project * * http://www.justicevision.org JusticeVision * * http://www.peoplesvideo.orgPeoples Video Network * HEY, KIDS!: JUST SAY *NO* TO DRAFTS! *** GPG fingerprint = 2E7F 2D69 4B0B C8D5 07E3 09C3 5E8D C4B4 461B B771 -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) iEYEARECAAYFAknJn34ACgkQXo3EtEYbt3HSDwCgjb7aPVZgVDFdO/kNKL1AmMrC AWQAnAqTGr6YXVhiwaiTgGY0G3aj65nZ =/H5i -END PGP SIGNATURE-
Re: [Vo]:Fear and Loathing in Las Vortex
On Mar 24, 2009, at 8:35 PM, Stephen A. Lawrence wrote: Kyle Mcallister wrote: --- Stephen A. Lawrence sa...@pobox.com wrote: [Robin von Spaandock wrote:] I suspect not. CF (or LENR) is finicky, and no one is yet certain of the precise requirements (though there are now a few claims of complete replicability). Those who can achieve it have been trying for quite a while to get it right. Even then, I think a reasonably well equipped lab is a prerequisite. It's not something you can do in your garage, and expect to work. Saying it can't be done in a garage is going a bit too far. It depends on /what/ one has in his/her garage. Yes, indeed. I think I've heard Ed Storms does some of his work in a (very well equipped) garage. I hate to burst this myth, but I'm in a very well equipped but crowded laboratory. The cars are safely in the garage upstairs. The SEM even has a room of its own. Ed People are building fusors in their garages. It takes brains, determination, cunning in designing with what you can scrounge, someone to listen (hard to get), and motivation. There is something else as well. There are some reproducible, repeatable experiments which work, if not every time, then a good fraction of the time. But reliability is not what stands in the way of making a tea heater. There are two other problems with making a gadget which does something useful. OK. Exactly how do we set up the reproducible experiments, what specific (read: NOT unobtainium) substances were used, etc.? I'm not an expert, but two come to my mind which seem worth pursuing: See the SPAWAR experiment replication, with which Steve Krivit was involved, seemed reasonably successful. There should be a lot in the Vortex archive on that, but in any case here's a relevant link (this is *not* to a complete paper, just something with references): http://www.newenergytimes.com/Library2/2008/2008Krivit-CurrentScience.pdf Also see the recent gas phase experiments by Ed Storms et al; a paper is here: http://lenr-canr.org/acrobat/StormsEdetectiono.pdf There was a wet-cell paper posted to Vortex recently which claimed 20/20 runs produced positive results, and 0/20 control runs produced positive results. That seems worth pursuing too but I don't have the link off hand. Why do we not concentrate almost exclusively on that which we KNOW works, and expand upon that? Make variations of this one setup that demonstrates excess heat, eventually using materials from different sources, testing equipment from different manufacturers, and so on, and then toss that into the public eye? Second, and more important, the same bugaboo that plagues hot fusion is at work here: The best of the wet-cell CF experiments is nowhere near breakeven. It's as bad as all that? What, the breakeven problem? Yes, it certainly is. Hot fusion, cold fusion, or fusor-fusion, you've got the same problem: energy out is smaller than energy in, and if you count the cost of the equipment in the energy budget, energy out is *much* smaller than energy in. It's almost like we're initiating the fusion reactions one at a time, grabbing individual pairs of atoms with a tweezers and bashing them together, and it's very hard to ramp that up and get something useful. The Sun, or an H-bomb, does it en masse, and the results are very different. Here's a rule of thumb: If you need a calorimeter to tell whether your reactor is working, you can be quite sure it's not producing a useful amount of energy. Why the hatred towards hot fusion by the cold fusioneers? Seems neither is doing well. The late Bussard's group a possible exception, I am watching that one with great interest. I think the initial extremely negative reaction of hot fusion people to reports of cold fusion has a lot to do with the bad feelings. I will say this: an army of willing amateurs is nothing to sneeze at. --Kyle
Re: [Vo]:Inertial Propulsion
--- Stephen A. Lawrence sa...@pobox.com wrote: 1. Mass M is moved say 10 units to the right by precession, thus (supposedly) forcelessly. F=0 at this point. This is a neat trick. He he he. Let me add this: neat trick... /if it works/ If you can do this you've already shattered Newton's laws, no need to go any farther. Well, it depends on what I said, does it allow you to keep the velocity gained per cycle, or is it just a sort of curiosity? Note that the center of gravity of a top or gyroscope does not move forcelessly as a result of precession, not with a conventional gyro operating with conventional physics, anyway. There's a lateral force on the support which is equal and opposite to the force needed to accelerate the center of mass as it precesses. Noted. Something still bothers me about the experiments I've done with suspended flywheels. Laithwaite was right about one thing, at the very least: gyros are like women. They will, when presented with a certain easy course of action, choose the opposite simply by way of 'principle'. As I said before, I don't know *what* is going on. Note: if anyone else decides to take up this line of research, be damn careful. A flywheel can be a very dangerous item when 'live'... (read: spinning fast) I have been hurt by them. Though many are prompted to say it is 'way cool' to have been bitten by HV, flywheels, radiation, etc., it isn't. --Kyle
[Vo]:Quad S
A mental control system, patented by the American Arny. This will make Grok throw out his T V set. http://proliberty.com/observer/20090118.htm --- Get FREE High Speed Internet from USFamily.Net! -- http://www.usfamily.net/mkt-freepromo.html ---
Re: [Vo]:Quad S
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 As the smoke cleared, thomas malloy temal...@usfamily.net mounted the barricade and roared out: A mental control system, patented by the American Arny. This will make Grok throw out his T V set. http://proliberty.com/observer/20090118.htm I haven´t watched bourgeois-propaganda TV for years, Malloy (but I´ve heard at least one hair-raising first-hand story about what they can do with this stuff now...) And they have other means of social control, eh? That good old-fashioned rubberhose treatment, or electrical cable over the insoles will do wonders, for instance. - -- grok. - -- *** FULL-SPECTRUM DOMINANCE! *** * BOYCOTT BOURGEOIS MASS-MEDIA* RSS/XML newsfeeds from around * * Use these links in RSS readers * the planet: Who needs CNN/Fox? * Critical endorsement only Most sites need donations * http://auto_sol.tao.ca/taxonomy/feed/or/130 Haïtian Resistance * * http://www.abn.info.ve/rss.php Agencia Bolivariana de Noticias * * http://rss.groups.yahoo.com/group/CubaNews/rss CubaNews * * http://www.handsoffvenezuela.org/cache/rss20.xml Hands Off Venez.* * http://www.legitgov.org/legitgov.xml Citizens for Legitimate Govt* * http://radicalreference.info/rss.xml Radical Reference * *** When the banks do well you can be sure the people aren't *** GPG fingerprint = 2E7F 2D69 4B0B C8D5 07E3 09C3 5E8D C4B4 461B B771 -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) iEYEARECAAYFAknJrCkACgkQXo3EtEYbt3FWUQCg4DWUR7PQVihQCC1vzDR7mMuK orUAoK0ZqpBXptts5yWX23tBs5Cu0YO4 =HKrM -END PGP SIGNATURE-
Re: [Vo]:The Mueller Motor
got this from evgray list: you spelled his name wrong (Muller) Look at this video if you doubt anything; 300W light bulb lit by single coil held in hand nest to rotor. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K2fF9aSEeVo His daughter Carmen and the Muller-tech guys still have that machine seen in video. http://www.mullerpower.com I just built a big 16 magnet Muller-dynamo with AIRCORES and 16 coil positions on each side of the 16 N-S neodymium magnets magnets... the rotor spins past the coils like nothing is there. perfect for wind machine - I am going to do power tests very soon spun by rotovertor since they will tell you exactly what the powerconsumption is from these vs power out also going to spin this with a modified DC golf cart motor after that. Look up on Google Robert Classen / Muller motorif you want to see an awesome replication too. I'll have pic up of my newest Muller-machine in my next post. ciaoK i hope this helps you thomas malloy On Tue, Mar 24, 2009 at 5:25 PM, thomas malloy temal...@usfamily.net wrote: Vortexians; I read the first chapter of this book. It talks about the Mueller Motor. I corresponded with Mr. Mueller in the '90's I didn't heard any more from him. The book mentions the use of his motor as a generator for wind machines. This is an application, which is so obvious, that the failure of anyone to do anything about makes me question the veracity of his claims. http://www.breakthroughpower.net/Home.html --- Get FREE High Speed Internet from USFamily.Net! -- http://www.usfamily.net/mkt-freepromo.html --- -- -- a hundred million dollar gamble into alternative energy research in the form of stipends and donations from the worldwide population could completely alter the face of the planet.
