Re: [Vo]:If Mizuno is correct, this design is likely to be the precursor to all future devices

[Axil Axil]

Dear Bob,

It is my feeling that when a Bose condensate induced time dilation state is
encompassing any transmutation activity, that time dilation allows the
nuclear and particle mechanisms to come to a quiescent and stable  state
almost instantly in the reference frame outside the zone of transmutation
activity.

How the final results that come out of the transmutation process is
completely stabilized no matter what that transmutation process entails.

Simply put, in all cases, matter that enters the transmutation process
whether that matter is acted upon by any nuclear or sub nuclear process
including  fusion, fission, alpha, beta, and gamma radiation, a newly
reconfigured stable resultant elemental product comes out.

On Sun, Jul 14, 2019 at 11:41 PM bobcook39...@hotmail.com <
bobcook39...@hotmail.com> wrote:

> Axil---
>
>
>
> There are various theory papers in the offing or already on the street
> that indicate that nucleons (protons and neutrons) are made up of 9 muons,
> which in turn are made up of positrons and electrons.
>
>
>
> Binding forces for the nucleons involve neutrinos and EM fields generated
> by the electrons and positrons.
>
>
>
> These models are validated by energetic electron inelastic scattering
> experiments over the years.  This validation is addressed
>
> by William L  Stubbs in his recent book, *Nuclear Alternative:
> Redesigning Our Model of the Structure of Matter.*
>
>
>
> Additional  physical models for electrons and positrons are still being
> finalized to address mass and energy equivalence, nuclear physical
> structures, binding energies  angular momentum/spin phenomena and it
> conservation, etc.  This Modeling has been a collaboration of  interested
> people that organized after the ICCF-21 Conference at Fort Collins in
> 2018.
>
>
>
> Together these models suggest that muons may very well result from nuclear
> transitions associated with LENR events.  They also suggest LENR controls
> to avoid energetic free muon production.
>
>
>
> As I have suggest many times in the past on this blog, a key design
> objective for LENR reactors  is to control the process so as to avoid free
> energetic particles and their associated radiation hazard.  This can be
> achieved by inducing coherent systems to give up nuclear spin energy to
> lattice electron spin/thermal energy.   Conservation of angular momentum is
> conserved, much as kinetic energy/linear momentum is conserved in free
> particle elastic scattering interactions.  Resonant EM fields are key to
> accomplishing desired control, as well as, the ambient magnetic fields,
> including and  local microscopic B fields.
>
>
>
> Bob Cook
>
>
>
> From: Axil Axil 
> *Sent: *Saturday, July 13, 2019 5:15 PM
> *To: *vortex-l 
> *Subject: *Re: [Vo]:If Mizuno is correct, this design is likely to be the
> precursor to all future device designs
>
> *Furthermore, from studying LENR results over the years, it is becoming
> increasingly apparent to me that LENR has a major issue to deal with. LENR
> makes matter and energy disappear. A major problem with LENR reactors is
> that they fall apart over time. This highly corrosive effect that these
> reactors suffer is due to this nasty issue of matter and energy
> degeneration. This degenerative process only gets worse when the power
> output level of the reactor goes up.*
>
> *And yet the amazing contradiction that the LENR reaction presents is that
> it does not produce any high energy particles or ionizing radiation. The
> question that hangs in the air is where does all that matter and energy go
> when the LENR reaction is active?*
>
> * At this current juncture, the reactor meltdown/corrosion problem has
> delayed any LENR application from reaching a successful conclusion. LENR is
> highly corrosive of the structure of the reactor as a function of its power
> output. Clearly, LENR's ability to corrode the structure of the reactor is
> a function of its power output. A low powered LENR reactor will function
> for a long time but its usefulness is limited. A high output reactor even
> if it is built like a tank does not perform for very long.*
>
> *The lack of nuclear reaction byproducts and the corrosion issue might
> well be connected.*
>
> *In addition, I think that transmutation happens when the LENR reaction
> has completed. For some unknown reason the LENR reaction in the LION
> diamond was episodic. There were three episodes when the LENR reaction came
> alive. Each of the episodes of activity produced a different transmutation
> product. But at the end of each episode of activity, each time the
> identical transmutation product was deposited at the ends of many tunnels.
> The miners were all contained inside the tunnels that they excavated. But
> they all behaved identically and communicated. They all acted in concert to
> transmute carbon into identical elements when they were active.*
>
> *From what we saw how the miners worked inside diamond, the transmuted
> elements are held in 

RE: [Vo]:If Mizuno is correct, this design is likely to be the precursor to all future devices

[bobcook39...@hotmail.com]

Axil---

There are various theory papers in the offing or already on the street that 
indicate that nucleons (protons and neutrons) are made up of 9 muons, which in 
turn are made up of positrons and electrons.

Binding forces for the nucleons involve neutrinos and EM fields generated by 
the electrons and positrons.

These models are validated by energetic electron inelastic scattering 
experiments over the years.  This validation is addressed
by William L  Stubbs in his recent book, Nuclear Alternative: Redesigning Our 
Model of the Structure of Matter.

Additional  physical models for electrons and positrons are still being 
finalized to address mass and energy equivalence, nuclear physical structures, 
binding energies  angular momentum/spin phenomena and it conservation, etc.  
This Modeling has been a collaboration of  interested people that organized 
after the ICCF-21 Conference at Fort Collins in 2018.

Together these models suggest that muons may very well result from nuclear 
transitions associated with LENR events.  They also suggest LENR controls to 
avoid energetic free muon production.

As I have suggest many times in the past on this blog, a key design objective 
for LENR reactors  is to control the process so as to avoid free energetic 
particles and their associated radiation hazard.  This can be achieved by 
inducing coherent systems to give up nuclear spin energy to lattice electron 
spin/thermal energy.   Conservation of angular momentum is conserved, much as 
kinetic energy/linear momentum is conserved in free particle elastic scattering 
interactions.  Resonant EM fields are key to accomplishing desired control, as 
well as, the ambient magnetic fields, including and  local microscopic B fields.

Bob Cook

From: Axil Axil
Sent: Saturday, July 13, 2019 5:15 PM
To: vortex-l
Subject: Re: [Vo]:If Mizuno is correct, this design is likely to be the 
precursor to all future device designs
Furthermore, from studying LENR results over the years, it is becoming 
increasingly apparent to me that LENR has a major issue to deal with. LENR 
makes matter and energy disappear. A major problem with LENR reactors is that 
they fall apart over time. This highly corrosive effect that these reactors 
suffer is due to this nasty issue of matter and energy degeneration. This 
degenerative process only gets worse when the power output level of the reactor 
goes up.
And yet the amazing contradiction that the LENR reaction presents is that it 
does not produce any high energy particles or ionizing radiation. The question 
that hangs in the air is where does all that matter and energy go when the LENR 
reaction is active?
 At this current juncture, the reactor meltdown/corrosion problem has delayed 
any LENR application from reaching a successful conclusion. LENR is highly 
corrosive of the structure of the reactor as a function of its power output. 
Clearly, LENR's ability to corrode the structure of the reactor is a function 
of its power output. A low powered LENR reactor will function for a long time 
but its usefulness is limited. A high output reactor even if it is built like a 
tank does not perform for very long.
The lack of nuclear reaction byproducts and the corrosion issue might well be 
connected.
In addition, I think that transmutation happens when the LENR reaction has 
completed. For some unknown reason the LENR reaction in the LION diamond was 
episodic. There were three episodes when the LENR reaction came alive. Each of 
the episodes of activity produced a different transmutation product. But at the 
end of each episode of activity, each time the identical transmutation product 
was deposited at the ends of many tunnels. The miners were all contained inside 
the tunnels that they excavated. But they all behaved identically and 
communicated. They all acted in concert to transmute carbon into identical 
elements when they were active.
>From what we saw how the miners worked inside diamond, the transmuted elements 
>are held in invisible suspension through QM superposition inside the flux tube 
>until the LENR reaction had completed. Then the transmuted elements stabilized 
>into their final form. We saw the diamond disappear as the miners excavated 
>the tunnel, Then when the LENR reaction finalized, the transmutated elements 
>appeared at the far end of the tunnel.
When I considered what happens to the matter that the miners excavated from 
their tunnels, I got confused. There are spaces inside those completely closed 
tubes. Where did that matter go? Where did the energy from transmutation of 
carbon go? There was a lot of transmutation but very little if any damage 
produced by heat evident inside those tubes. The matter that was removed from 
those tubes could have supported the energy needs of a city for a year is it 
was transformed into energy.
I think that transmutation happened when the LENR reaction completed. For some 
unknown 

RE: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:If Mizuno is correct, this design is likely to be the precursor to all future devices

[Roarty, Francis X]

Axil,
I agree with where you are going  here “This difference in the perspective of 
time is why we see no nuclear activity going on at or inside the EMF horizon”. 
Fusion artifact wavelengths must translate down as the frames deteriorates such 
that they are not lethal or even recognized as dangerous radiation by the time 
they leak back into our frame. It takes the gravity well of a neutron star to 
reduce the frequency of a laser beam escaping from it into space by over 10% 
and I am still suggesting that Nano cavities and self catalyzing geometry of 
the gas atoms within it can exceed those lose levels from a negative 
perspective, nesting much further down than just the familiar active Casimir 
sub 10nm range forming the hard surfaces. I believe that catalytic interactions 
in these cavities between the fractional hydrogen molecules of different frames 
can exceed unity, disassociating  from heat and stress on the bond from changes 
in frames and then reassociation almost instantly in the local frame while 
still being pushed along into  different frames that again weakens the 
threshold in a runaway-bootstrap stage that powers this dilated fusion. Rather 
than adding energy to accelerate toward C or using the mass of a collapsed star 
this method restricts the baseline vacuum density of the isotropy from passing 
thru the cavity, lowering the density of virtual particles in our macro 
isotropy below that of even deep space. The perspective of a Nano observer in 
one of these dilated regions would be an analog of our macro perspective of the 
near C Paradox twin. The Nano observer would as you said perceive everything as 
normal but see us in the macro world as frozen in time.
R
Fran

From: Axil Axil 
Sent: Sunday, July 14, 2019 5:51 PM
To: vortex-l 
Subject: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:If Mizuno is correct, this design is likely to be 
theprecursor to all future devices

Twin Paradox in General Relativity
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bjHLboK2M1g
From the perspective of the people in the world outside of the EMF event 
horizon, the speed that things are happening on or inside that horizon is 
ultra-fast. But at that  horizon, the speed that things are happening is 
occurring at a normal speed.
This difference in the perspective of time is why we see no nuclear activity 
going on at or inside the EMF horizon.  These nuclear reactions happen 
instantaneously from our perspective even if the radioactive isotope takes 
billions of years to stabilize.

On Sun, Jul 14, 2019 at 5:16 PM Axil Axil 
mailto:janap...@gmail.com>> wrote:
There is no telling what elements will be transformed by the LENR reaction. 
When the LENR active agent get hold of palladium and deuterium, silver might be 
formed rather than just helium. The mesh should be examined in a SEM scan to 
see if there is some non palladium elements present on the nickel mesh.

On Sun, Jul 14, 2019 at 5:03 PM JonesBeene 
mailto:jone...@pacbell.net>> wrote:
From: Jürg Wyttenbach


  *   In the Mizuno case we certainly will see 4-He with a 4-He a part > that 
106 of the 3-He part.

Jürg

If Mizuno is producing helium then it should show up very distinctly when he 
looks for it- since the total gas inventory is so low and the power is so high 
that the ratio of He:D after along run will leave no doubt. As of now – that 
evidence is lacking.

It is too bad that we do not have more information now – as this experiment is 
uniquely positioned to see it and if fount then it makes a huge difference in 
what to expect from future devices. I’m on record as predicting there will be 
none, well … only incidental Helium – possibly unmeasurable.

Mizuno clearly states nickel is the host reactant – not the tiny amount of 
palladium.

Where is the reliable evidence for helium being produced from nickel/deuterium?

Jones

Re: [Vo]:If Mizuno is correct, this design is likely to be the precursor to all future devices

[Jed Rothwell]

Axil Axil  wrote:

Lutz Jaitner has commented on the images of craters found and shared on the
> Pd coated Ohmasa vibrator plates
>
I know nothing about this device, but perhaps the vibrations caused a
problem. Anyway, Mizuno ran a cell for 3 years, producing considerable
excess heat, but there was no damage to it. Other have run cells for a long
time and claimed they produced heat, with no damage. So I doubt this is a
problem. Or, if it is, I suppose there must be a way to prevent the damage.

Some techniques, such as glow discharge, definitely produce damage. They
destroy the cathode in about 15 minutes.

Re: [Vo]:If Mizuno is correct, this design is likely to be theprecursor to all future devices

[Axil Axil]

The polariton is a plasmonic based quasiparticle that loves to socialize.
They are the quintessential party animal. If any polaritons are produced
inside a LENR reactor, they will automatically find each other and begin an
entangled get together.

This predisposition to produce a global condensate over the entire extent
of the reactors surface structure is where all the EMF power comes from.
This concentration of EMF power is known as super-radiance.

super-radiance

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Superradiance


In quantum optics, superradiance is a phenomenon that occurs when a group
of N emitters, such as excited atoms, interact with a common light field.
If the wavelength of the light is much greater than the separation of the
emitters, then the emitters interact with the light in a collective and
coherent fashion. This causes the group to emit light as a high intensity
pulse (with rate ∝ N2). This is a surprising result, drastically different
from the expected exponential decay (with rate ∝ N) of a group of
independent atoms (see spontaneous emission). Superradiance has since been
demonstrated in a wide variety of physical and chemical systems, such as
quantum dot arrays and J-aggregates. The effect has recently been used to
produce a superradiant laser.

If we can pump EMF into a sub-straight such as a Mizuno micro mesh that are
optimized to  form plasmons and their bosonic progeny: polaritons, that
sub-straight will sooner or later give rise to an EMF event horizon. A
global polariton condensate will develop on the surface of the mesh that
will generate a LENR active superradiant EMF event horizon.

On Sun, Jul 14, 2019 at 7:10 PM Axil Axil  wrote:

> One of the reasons why superconductivity and LENR are so tightly connected
> is that it would be near impossible to gather and then subsequently
> maintain enough EMF power to produce an effective EMF event horizon.
> Dispersion of optical power would soon destroy the meta-stable
> concentration of EMF power upon which the LENR reaction depends. This is
> where ultra-dense matter comes into the LENR picture. This state of matter
> produces the state of superconductivity in the particles that make this
> special type of matter. LENR takes to this special highly supportive
> electromagnetic environment like bacteria take to a soup of supportive
> nutrients in a petri dish.
>
> The LENR reaction can form in a non-superconductive situation, but it
> needs far more input energy pumping to maintain the density of sufficient
> polaritons that can sustain the associated development of an EMF event
> horizon. This weaken gathering of polariton density is where gammas and
> sundry nuclear reactive byproduct will manifest.
>
>
>
> On Sun, Jul 14, 2019 at 6:44 PM Axil Axil  wrote:
>
>> The production of gammas and radioactive isotopes is like the production
>> of smoke in a weak fire that is just getting started. Once a fire gets
>> going with a vengeance and the combustion process has firmly set in, the
>> fire burns hottest with no smoke production.
>>
>> All the LENR old guard looked for the production of LENR smoke to prove
>> to the outsiders that LENR was actually occurring. But once the LENR
>> reaction set in strongly, there would be no LENR smoke to be had. The
>> desire of the LENR old guard for the LENR reaction to prove its existence
>> through the production of LENR smoke is counterproductive.
>>
>> On Sun, Jul 14, 2019 at 6:21 PM Axil Axil  wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> https://pdfs.semanticscholar.org/21a1/9da6b2ac3da851177d2f4e93be88f73a330b.pdf
>>>
>>> Low Energy Nuclear Reactions resulting as picometer interactions with
>>> similarity to K-shell electron capture
>>>
>>> H. Hora, G.H. Miley have come up with a theory that explains how
>>> transmuted elements will form based on the quarks nature of matter. This is
>>> applicable to what the mechanism of matter formation must have been when
>>> elements first formed during the earliest  times just after the big bang.
>>> The way matter forms now inside the LENR reaction at the EMF event horizon
>>> is the same as it had occurred just after the big bang.
>>>
>>> On Sun, Jul 14, 2019 at 5:51 PM Axil Axil  wrote:
>>>
 Twin Paradox in General Relativity

 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bjHLboK2M1g

 From the perspective of the people in the world outside of the EMF
 event horizon, the speed that things are happening on or inside that
 horizon is ultra-fast. But at that  horizon, the speed that things are
 happening is occurring at a normal speed.

 This difference in the perspective of time is why we see no nuclear
 activity going on at or inside the EMF horizon.  These nuclear reactions
 happen instantaneously from our perspective even if the radioactive isotope
 takes billions of years to stabilize.

 On Sun, Jul 14, 2019 at 5:16 PM Axil 

Re: [Vo]:If Mizuno is correct, this design is likely to be theprecursor to all future devices

[Axil Axil]

One of the reasons why superconductivity and LENR are so tightly connected
is that it would be near impossible to gather and then subsequently
maintain enough EMF power to produce an effective EMF event horizon.
Dispersion of optical power would soon destroy the meta-stable
concentration of EMF power upon which the LENR reaction depends. This is
where ultra-dense matter comes into the LENR picture. This state of matter
produces the state of superconductivity in the particles that make this
special type of matter. LENR takes to this special highly supportive
electromagnetic environment like bacteria take to a soup of supportive
nutrients in a petri dish.

The LENR reaction can form in a non-superconductive situation, but it needs
far more input energy pumping to maintain the density of sufficient
polaritons that can sustain the associated development of an EMF event
horizon. This weaken gathering of polariton density is where gammas and
sundry nuclear reactive byproduct will manifest.



On Sun, Jul 14, 2019 at 6:44 PM Axil Axil  wrote:

> The production of gammas and radioactive isotopes is like the production
> of smoke in a weak fire that is just getting started. Once a fire gets
> going with a vengeance and the combustion process has firmly set in, the
> fire burns hottest with no smoke production.
>
> All the LENR old guard looked for the production of LENR smoke to prove to
> the outsiders that LENR was actually occurring. But once the LENR reaction
> set in strongly, there would be no LENR smoke to be had. The desire of the
> LENR old guard for the LENR reaction to prove its existence through the
> production of LENR smoke is counterproductive.
>
> On Sun, Jul 14, 2019 at 6:21 PM Axil Axil  wrote:
>
>>
>> https://pdfs.semanticscholar.org/21a1/9da6b2ac3da851177d2f4e93be88f73a330b.pdf
>>
>> Low Energy Nuclear Reactions resulting as picometer interactions with
>> similarity to K-shell electron capture
>>
>> H. Hora, G.H. Miley have come up with a theory that explains how
>> transmuted elements will form based on the quarks nature of matter. This is
>> applicable to what the mechanism of matter formation must have been when
>> elements first formed during the earliest  times just after the big bang.
>> The way matter forms now inside the LENR reaction at the EMF event horizon
>> is the same as it had occurred just after the big bang.
>>
>> On Sun, Jul 14, 2019 at 5:51 PM Axil Axil  wrote:
>>
>>> Twin Paradox in General Relativity
>>>
>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bjHLboK2M1g
>>>
>>> From the perspective of the people in the world outside of the EMF event
>>> horizon, the speed that things are happening on or inside that horizon is
>>> ultra-fast. But at that  horizon, the speed that things are happening is
>>> occurring at a normal speed.
>>>
>>> This difference in the perspective of time is why we see no nuclear
>>> activity going on at or inside the EMF horizon.  These nuclear reactions
>>> happen instantaneously from our perspective even if the radioactive isotope
>>> takes billions of years to stabilize.
>>>
>>> On Sun, Jul 14, 2019 at 5:16 PM Axil Axil  wrote:
>>>
 There is no telling what elements will be transformed by the LENR
 reaction. When the LENR active agent get hold of palladium and deuterium,
 silver might be formed rather than just helium. The mesh should be examined
 in a SEM scan to see if there is some non palladium elements present on the
 nickel mesh.

 On Sun, Jul 14, 2019 at 5:03 PM JonesBeene  wrote:

> *From: *Jürg Wyttenbach 
>
>
>
>- In the Mizuno case we certainly will see 4-He with a 4-He a part
>> that 106 of the 3-He part.
>
>
>
> Jürg
>
>
>
> If Mizuno is producing helium then it should show up very distinctly
> when he looks for it- since the total gas inventory is so low and the 
> power
> is so high that the ratio of He:D after along run will leave no doubt. As
> of now – that evidence is lacking.
>
>
>
> It is too bad that we do not have more information now – as this
> experiment is uniquely positioned to see it and if fount then it makes a
> huge difference in what to expect from future devices. I’m on record as
> predicting there will be none, well … only incidental Helium – possibly
> unmeasurable.
>
>
>
> Mizuno clearly states nickel is the host reactant – not the tiny
> amount of palladium.
>
>
>
> Where is the reliable evidence for helium being produced from
> nickel/deuterium?
>
>
>
> Jones
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

Re: [Vo]:If Mizuno is correct, this design is likely to be theprecursor to all future devices

[Axil Axil]

The production of gammas and radioactive isotopes is like the production of
smoke in a weak fire that is just getting started. Once a fire gets going
with a vengeance and the combustion process has firmly set in, the fire
burns hottest with no smoke production.

All the LENR old guard looked for the production of LENR smoke to prove to
the outsiders that LENR was actually occurring. But once the LENR reaction
set in strongly, there would be no LENR smoke to be had. The desire of the
LENR old guard for the LENR reaction to prove its existence through the
production of LENR smoke is counterproductive.

On Sun, Jul 14, 2019 at 6:21 PM Axil Axil  wrote:

>
> https://pdfs.semanticscholar.org/21a1/9da6b2ac3da851177d2f4e93be88f73a330b.pdf
>
> Low Energy Nuclear Reactions resulting as picometer interactions with
> similarity to K-shell electron capture
>
> H. Hora, G.H. Miley have come up with a theory that explains how
> transmuted elements will form based on the quarks nature of matter. This is
> applicable to what the mechanism of matter formation must have been when
> elements first formed during the earliest  times just after the big bang.
> The way matter forms now inside the LENR reaction at the EMF event horizon
> is the same as it had occurred just after the big bang.
>
> On Sun, Jul 14, 2019 at 5:51 PM Axil Axil  wrote:
>
>> Twin Paradox in General Relativity
>>
>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bjHLboK2M1g
>>
>> From the perspective of the people in the world outside of the EMF event
>> horizon, the speed that things are happening on or inside that horizon is
>> ultra-fast. But at that  horizon, the speed that things are happening is
>> occurring at a normal speed.
>>
>> This difference in the perspective of time is why we see no nuclear
>> activity going on at or inside the EMF horizon.  These nuclear reactions
>> happen instantaneously from our perspective even if the radioactive isotope
>> takes billions of years to stabilize.
>>
>> On Sun, Jul 14, 2019 at 5:16 PM Axil Axil  wrote:
>>
>>> There is no telling what elements will be transformed by the LENR
>>> reaction. When the LENR active agent get hold of palladium and deuterium,
>>> silver might be formed rather than just helium. The mesh should be examined
>>> in a SEM scan to see if there is some non palladium elements present on the
>>> nickel mesh.
>>>
>>> On Sun, Jul 14, 2019 at 5:03 PM JonesBeene  wrote:
>>>
 *From: *Jürg Wyttenbach 



- In the Mizuno case we certainly will see 4-He with a 4-He a part
> that 106 of the 3-He part.



 Jürg



 If Mizuno is producing helium then it should show up very distinctly
 when he looks for it- since the total gas inventory is so low and the power
 is so high that the ratio of He:D after along run will leave no doubt. As
 of now – that evidence is lacking.



 It is too bad that we do not have more information now – as this
 experiment is uniquely positioned to see it and if fount then it makes a
 huge difference in what to expect from future devices. I’m on record as
 predicting there will be none, well … only incidental Helium – possibly
 unmeasurable.



 Mizuno clearly states nickel is the host reactant – not the tiny amount
 of palladium.



 Where is the reliable evidence for helium being produced from
 nickel/deuterium?



 Jones







>>>

Re: [Vo]:If Mizuno is correct, this design is likely to be theprecursor to all future devices

[Axil Axil]

https://pdfs.semanticscholar.org/21a1/9da6b2ac3da851177d2f4e93be88f73a330b.pdf

Low Energy Nuclear Reactions resulting as picometer interactions with
similarity to K-shell electron capture

H. Hora, G.H. Miley have come up with a theory that explains how transmuted
elements will form based on the quarks nature of matter. This is applicable
to what the mechanism of matter formation must have been when elements
first formed during the earliest  times just after the big bang. The way
matter forms now inside the LENR reaction at the EMF event horizon is the
same as it had occurred just after the big bang.

On Sun, Jul 14, 2019 at 5:51 PM Axil Axil  wrote:

> Twin Paradox in General Relativity
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bjHLboK2M1g
>
> From the perspective of the people in the world outside of the EMF event
> horizon, the speed that things are happening on or inside that horizon is
> ultra-fast. But at that  horizon, the speed that things are happening is
> occurring at a normal speed.
>
> This difference in the perspective of time is why we see no nuclear
> activity going on at or inside the EMF horizon.  These nuclear reactions
> happen instantaneously from our perspective even if the radioactive isotope
> takes billions of years to stabilize.
>
> On Sun, Jul 14, 2019 at 5:16 PM Axil Axil  wrote:
>
>> There is no telling what elements will be transformed by the LENR
>> reaction. When the LENR active agent get hold of palladium and deuterium,
>> silver might be formed rather than just helium. The mesh should be examined
>> in a SEM scan to see if there is some non palladium elements present on the
>> nickel mesh.
>>
>> On Sun, Jul 14, 2019 at 5:03 PM JonesBeene  wrote:
>>
>>> *From: *Jürg Wyttenbach 
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>- In the Mizuno case we certainly will see 4-He with a 4-He a part >
>>>that 106 of the 3-He part.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Jürg
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> If Mizuno is producing helium then it should show up very distinctly
>>> when he looks for it- since the total gas inventory is so low and the power
>>> is so high that the ratio of He:D after along run will leave no doubt. As
>>> of now – that evidence is lacking.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> It is too bad that we do not have more information now – as this
>>> experiment is uniquely positioned to see it and if fount then it makes a
>>> huge difference in what to expect from future devices. I’m on record as
>>> predicting there will be none, well … only incidental Helium – possibly
>>> unmeasurable.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Mizuno clearly states nickel is the host reactant – not the tiny amount
>>> of palladium.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Where is the reliable evidence for helium being produced from
>>> nickel/deuterium?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Jones
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>

Re: [Vo]:If Mizuno is correct, this design is likely to be theprecursor to all future devices

[Axil Axil]

Twin Paradox in General Relativity

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bjHLboK2M1g

>From the perspective of the people in the world outside of the EMF event
horizon, the speed that things are happening on or inside that horizon is
ultra-fast. But at that  horizon, the speed that things are happening is
occurring at a normal speed.

This difference in the perspective of time is why we see no nuclear
activity going on at or inside the EMF horizon.  These nuclear reactions
happen instantaneously from our perspective even if the radioactive isotope
takes billions of years to stabilize.

On Sun, Jul 14, 2019 at 5:16 PM Axil Axil  wrote:

> There is no telling what elements will be transformed by the LENR
> reaction. When the LENR active agent get hold of palladium and deuterium,
> silver might be formed rather than just helium. The mesh should be examined
> in a SEM scan to see if there is some non palladium elements present on the
> nickel mesh.
>
> On Sun, Jul 14, 2019 at 5:03 PM JonesBeene  wrote:
>
>> *From: *Jürg Wyttenbach 
>>
>>
>>
>>- In the Mizuno case we certainly will see 4-He with a 4-He a part >
>>that 106 of the 3-He part.
>>
>>
>>
>> Jürg
>>
>>
>>
>> If Mizuno is producing helium then it should show up very distinctly when
>> he looks for it- since the total gas inventory is so low and the power is
>> so high that the ratio of He:D after along run will leave no doubt. As of
>> now – that evidence is lacking.
>>
>>
>>
>> It is too bad that we do not have more information now – as this
>> experiment is uniquely positioned to see it and if fount then it makes a
>> huge difference in what to expect from future devices. I’m on record as
>> predicting there will be none, well … only incidental Helium – possibly
>> unmeasurable.
>>
>>
>>
>> Mizuno clearly states nickel is the host reactant – not the tiny amount
>> of palladium.
>>
>>
>>
>> Where is the reliable evidence for helium being produced from
>> nickel/deuterium?
>>
>>
>>
>> Jones
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>

Re: [Vo]:If Mizuno is correct, this design is likely to be theprecursor to all future devices

[Axil Axil]

There is no telling what elements will be transformed by the LENR reaction.
When the LENR active agent get hold of palladium and deuterium, silver
might be formed rather than just helium. The mesh should be examined in a
SEM scan to see if there is some non palladium elements present on the
nickel mesh.

On Sun, Jul 14, 2019 at 5:03 PM JonesBeene  wrote:

> *From: *Jürg Wyttenbach 
>
>
>
>- In the Mizuno case we certainly will see 4-He with a 4-He a part >
>that 106 of the 3-He part.
>
>
>
> Jürg
>
>
>
> If Mizuno is producing helium then it should show up very distinctly when
> he looks for it- since the total gas inventory is so low and the power is
> so high that the ratio of He:D after along run will leave no doubt. As of
> now – that evidence is lacking.
>
>
>
> It is too bad that we do not have more information now – as this
> experiment is uniquely positioned to see it and if fount then it makes a
> huge difference in what to expect from future devices. I’m on record as
> predicting there will be none, well … only incidental Helium – possibly
> unmeasurable.
>
>
>
> Mizuno clearly states nickel is the host reactant – not the tiny amount of
> palladium.
>
>
>
> Where is the reliable evidence for helium being produced from
> nickel/deuterium?
>
>
>
> Jones
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

RE: [Vo]:If Mizuno is correct, this design is likely to be theprecursor to all future devices

[JonesBeene]

From: Jürg Wyttenbach

➢ In the Mizuno case we certainly will see 4-He with a 4-He a part > that 106 
of the 3-He part.

Jürg

If Mizuno is producing helium then it should show up very distinctly when he 
looks for it- since the total gas inventory is so low and the power is so high 
that the ratio of He:D after along run will leave no doubt. As of now – that 
evidence is lacking.

It is too bad that we do not have more information now – as this experiment is 
uniquely positioned to see it and if fount then it makes a huge difference in 
what to expect from future devices. I’m on record as predicting there will be 
none, well … only incidental Helium – possibly unmeasurable. 

Mizuno clearly states nickel is the host reactant – not the tiny amount of 
palladium. 

Where is the reliable evidence for helium being produced from nickel/deuterium?

Jones

Re: [Vo]:If Mizuno is correct, this design is likely to betheprecursor to all future devices

[Axil Axil]

*The unification of the *electromagnetic
, weak
, and strong
 interactions
 could explain where
the process of transmutation of elements is coming from in LENR. The
environment in and around  the EMF singularity could be where the strong
force unification reverts the evolution of matter formation back to the
conditions that were prevalent at the earliest epochs in the evolution of
infant universe.

On Sun, Jul 14, 2019 at 4:42 PM Axil Axil  wrote:

> It is generally recognized in grand unification theories that the
> electroweak force (EMF) and the force of gravity were combined when the
> universe was just starting out. This is why science believes that the
> unification of gravity and EMF can occur at high energies.
>
> If there is enough gravity concentrated at one point in space-time, then
> an event horizon will form. The same event horizon formation process must
> be true for the concentration of EMF at a point is Space-time since gravity
> and EMF are basically the same force.
>
> LENR is a result of the condensation of EMF into a state of extreme
> condensation at a singular point in space-time. All the theory and
> experimental observations that apply to horizon formation in gravity also
> apply to the condensation of EMF at a singular point in space-time.
>
> Since this EMF concentration is mostly related to the concentration of
> light, the resulting EMF horizon also takes on the complicating quantum
> mechanical properties of superposition. This quantum mechanical
> complicating property is not present for gravity.
>
> Time dilation is a critical property that makes the LENR virtually
> impervious to human understanding. We humans do not experience time
> dilation in the world we live in. Adding in superposition into our everyday
> world puts the complicated interactions between time dilation and
> superposition that occurs in the LENR reaction outside of the understanding
> of just about everybody. It is going to take a lot of time and effort to
> educate people about what the LENR reaction is all about.
>
>
>
> On Sun, Jul 14, 2019 at 3:33 PM Axil Axil  wrote:
>
>> Dewey
>> July 13, 2019 at 1:13 PM
>> Dr Rossi,
>> I return to the comment of Neri Accornero: can you give a hint, not
>> superficial, but not too difficult, about what can happen if your effect is
>> not fusion, not fission, not chemical reaction?
>>
>> Andrea Rossi
>> July 13, 2019 at 1:33 PM
>> Dewey:
>> Please go to
>> http://www.researchgate.net...
>> 
>> All the references cited here are the same reported in the above
>> mentioned paper.
>> In [13] a fundamental connection between Aharonov-Bohm equations and an
>> electron model is proposed, starting from a geometric interpretation of the
>> electron wave-function complex phase [6,8,1].
>> This approach suggests the possibility of efficiently creating electron
>> condensates exploiting the Aharonov-Bohm effect, a phenomenon that shows
>> the dependence of electron wave-function phase from electromagnetic
>> potentials [9].
>> Warm Regards,
>> A.R.
>> 
>>
>> Aharonov-Bohm effect
>>
>> https://disq.us/url?url=https%3A%2F%2Fen.wikipedia.org%2Fwiki%2FAharonov%25E2%2580%2593Bohm_effect%3ALTnbbRNmquXoFpfvayH973nqFc4=2168707
>>
>> Rossi is looking for a quantum mechanical mechanism that enables an
>> ensemble of electrons to convert from a fermion to a boson so that those
>> electrons can form a Bose condensate(BC). A BC is the means by which
>> electrons can form a meta-stable ensemble that can hold together in a long
>> lived plasmoid configuration which is connected to ultra dense matter: what
>> Rossi calls "Neutral pico-metric aggregates".
>>
>> The intent of this posit is very close to what is really going on in the
>> LENR reaction. Rossi has not yet stumbled upon the correct quantum
>> mechanical mechanism that enables electrons to change their fermionic
>> nature into bosons.
>>
>> The correct mechanism involves the entanglement of phonons, excitons or
>> plasmons polaritons with electrons. There is a ton of nanophotonic theory
>> and experimental evidence that covers this subject.
>>
>> On the theory of three types of polaritons (phonon, exciton and plasmon
>> polaritons)
>> https://iopscience.iop.org/...
>> 
>>
>> The rabbit hole that this subject engenders is as big as all outdoors.
>> This subject matter is currently a very hot subject is optics. In my
>> opinion, optics is a very difficult area of physics to get our heads
>> around. 

Re: [Vo]:If Mizuno is correct, this design is likely to betheprecursor to all future devices

[Axil Axil]

*For further study as follows:*

*Grand Unified Theory* (*GUT*)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grand_Unified_Theory



A *Grand Unified Theory* (*GUT*) is a model in particle physics
 in which, at high energy
, the three gauge interactions
 of the Standard Model
 that define the
electromagnetic , weak
, and strong
interactions
, or forces, are
merged into a single force. Although this unified force has not been
directly observed, the many GUT models theorize its existence. If
unification of these three interactions is possible, it raises the
possibility that there was a grand unification epoch
 in the very early
universe  in which these
three fundamental interactions
 were not yet
distinct.

*Gravity's effect on the flow of time in General Relativity*

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ENkP0h8nAg





On Sun, Jul 14, 2019 at 4:42 PM Axil Axil  wrote:

> It is generally recognized in grand unification theories that the
> electroweak force (EMF) and the force of gravity were combined when the
> universe was just starting out. This is why science believes that the
> unification of gravity and EMF can occur at high energies.
>
> If there is enough gravity concentrated at one point in space-time, then
> an event horizon will form. The same event horizon formation process must
> be true for the concentration of EMF at a point is Space-time since gravity
> and EMF are basically the same force.
>
> LENR is a result of the condensation of EMF into a state of extreme
> condensation at a singular point in space-time. All the theory and
> experimental observations that apply to horizon formation in gravity also
> apply to the condensation of EMF at a singular point in space-time.
>
> Since this EMF concentration is mostly related to the concentration of
> light, the resulting EMF horizon also takes on the complicating quantum
> mechanical properties of superposition. This quantum mechanical
> complicating property is not present for gravity.
>
> Time dilation is a critical property that makes the LENR virtually
> impervious to human understanding. We humans do not experience time
> dilation in the world we live in. Adding in superposition into our everyday
> world puts the complicated interactions between time dilation and
> superposition that occurs in the LENR reaction outside of the understanding
> of just about everybody. It is going to take a lot of time and effort to
> educate people about what the LENR reaction is all about.
>
>
>
> On Sun, Jul 14, 2019 at 3:33 PM Axil Axil  wrote:
>
>> Dewey
>> July 13, 2019 at 1:13 PM
>> Dr Rossi,
>> I return to the comment of Neri Accornero: can you give a hint, not
>> superficial, but not too difficult, about what can happen if your effect is
>> not fusion, not fission, not chemical reaction?
>>
>> Andrea Rossi
>> July 13, 2019 at 1:33 PM
>> Dewey:
>> Please go to
>> http://www.researchgate.net...
>> 
>> All the references cited here are the same reported in the above
>> mentioned paper.
>> In [13] a fundamental connection between Aharonov-Bohm equations and an
>> electron model is proposed, starting from a geometric interpretation of the
>> electron wave-function complex phase [6,8,1].
>> This approach suggests the possibility of efficiently creating electron
>> condensates exploiting the Aharonov-Bohm effect, a phenomenon that shows
>> the dependence of electron wave-function phase from electromagnetic
>> potentials [9].
>> Warm Regards,
>> A.R.
>> 
>>
>> Aharonov-Bohm effect
>>
>> https://disq.us/url?url=https%3A%2F%2Fen.wikipedia.org%2Fwiki%2FAharonov%25E2%2580%2593Bohm_effect%3ALTnbbRNmquXoFpfvayH973nqFc4=2168707
>>
>> Rossi is looking for a quantum mechanical mechanism that enables an
>> ensemble of electrons to convert from a fermion to a boson so that those
>> electrons can form a Bose condensate(BC). A BC is the means by which
>> electrons can form a meta-stable ensemble that can hold together in a long
>> lived plasmoid configuration which is connected to ultra dense matter: what
>> Rossi calls "Neutral pico-metric aggregates".
>>
>> The intent of this posit is very close to what is really going on in the
>> LENR reaction. Rossi has not yet stumbled upon the correct quantum
>> mechanical mechanism that enables electrons to change their fermionic

Re: [Vo]:If Mizuno is correct, this design is likely to betheprecursor to all future devices

[Axil Axil]

It is generally recognized in grand unification theories that the
electroweak force (EMF) and the force of gravity were combined when the
universe was just starting out. This is why science believes that the
unification of gravity and EMF can occur at high energies.

If there is enough gravity concentrated at one point in space-time, then an
event horizon will form. The same event horizon formation process must be
true for the concentration of EMF at a point is Space-time since gravity
and EMF are basically the same force.

LENR is a result of the condensation of EMF into a state of extreme
condensation at a singular point in space-time. All the theory and
experimental observations that apply to horizon formation in gravity also
apply to the condensation of EMF at a singular point in space-time.

Since this EMF concentration is mostly related to the concentration of
light, the resulting EMF horizon also takes on the complicating quantum
mechanical properties of superposition. This quantum mechanical
complicating property is not present for gravity.

Time dilation is a critical property that makes the LENR virtually
impervious to human understanding. We humans do not experience time
dilation in the world we live in. Adding in superposition into our everyday
world puts the complicated interactions between time dilation and
superposition that occurs in the LENR reaction outside of the understanding
of just about everybody. It is going to take a lot of time and effort to
educate people about what the LENR reaction is all about.



On Sun, Jul 14, 2019 at 3:33 PM Axil Axil  wrote:

> Dewey
> July 13, 2019 at 1:13 PM
> Dr Rossi,
> I return to the comment of Neri Accornero: can you give a hint, not
> superficial, but not too difficult, about what can happen if your effect is
> not fusion, not fission, not chemical reaction?
>
> Andrea Rossi
> July 13, 2019 at 1:33 PM
> Dewey:
> Please go to
> http://www.researchgate.net...
> 
> All the references cited here are the same reported in the above mentioned
> paper.
> In [13] a fundamental connection between Aharonov-Bohm equations and an
> electron model is proposed, starting from a geometric interpretation of the
> electron wave-function complex phase [6,8,1].
> This approach suggests the possibility of efficiently creating electron
> condensates exploiting the Aharonov-Bohm effect, a phenomenon that shows
> the dependence of electron wave-function phase from electromagnetic
> potentials [9].
> Warm Regards,
> A.R.
> 
>
> Aharonov-Bohm effect
>
> https://disq.us/url?url=https%3A%2F%2Fen.wikipedia.org%2Fwiki%2FAharonov%25E2%2580%2593Bohm_effect%3ALTnbbRNmquXoFpfvayH973nqFc4=2168707
>
> Rossi is looking for a quantum mechanical mechanism that enables an
> ensemble of electrons to convert from a fermion to a boson so that those
> electrons can form a Bose condensate(BC). A BC is the means by which
> electrons can form a meta-stable ensemble that can hold together in a long
> lived plasmoid configuration which is connected to ultra dense matter: what
> Rossi calls "Neutral pico-metric aggregates".
>
> The intent of this posit is very close to what is really going on in the
> LENR reaction. Rossi has not yet stumbled upon the correct quantum
> mechanical mechanism that enables electrons to change their fermionic
> nature into bosons.
>
> The correct mechanism involves the entanglement of phonons, excitons or
> plasmons polaritons with electrons. There is a ton of nanophotonic theory
> and experimental evidence that covers this subject.
>
> On the theory of three types of polaritons (phonon, exciton and plasmon
> polaritons)
> https://iopscience.iop.org/...
> 
>
> The rabbit hole that this subject engenders is as big as all outdoors.
> This subject matter is currently a very hot subject is optics. In my
> opinion, optics is a very difficult area of physics to get our heads
> around. This subject also leads to many other subjects that a truly mind
> boggling and beyond current science to explain.
>
> It is also apparent that Rossi must be getting competent professional help
> in formulating his theory... Rossi is not working alone. It is fair to say
> based on the very advanced state of his theory of LENR that Rossi also must
> have something substantial that is working and close to if not currently
> functional.
>
> On Sun, Jul 14, 2019 at 3:19 PM Axil Axil  wrote:
>
>> First, PP fusion is not possible on earth. It can only occur deep inside
>> the cores of stars where the mass of protium reactants is huge.
>>
>> The roll of hydrogen in the LENR reaction is to promote the nanoplasmonic
>> reaction enabled by a irregular micro surface 

Re: [Vo]:If Mizuno is correct, this design is likely to betheprecursor to all future devices

[Jürg Wyttenbach]

All past experiments doing deuterium LENR I know always directly 
produced 4-He.


If somebody believes that no fusion would happen at all, then he should 
visit a priest.


The key feature of LENR is that fusion happens without any hard 
radiation that is significantly above background. We, in our lab, can 
produce LENR reactions with significantly above background gamma 
radiation. But that is intention to study the LENR mechanism.


In the H-H case the SO(4) bond structure of dense hydrogen does not 
allow direct fusion. Here we see only 500eV going out what is a kind of 
no go for H-H LENR. H(-H) LENR only works with Lithium  and other 
elements  that allow the add-on of H* that of reacts like a neutron.


But there were also experiments like 56Fe + H* --> pseudo 57-Co, that 
behaves halve like 57-Co and finally halve like 57-Fe.

finally a very strange state.. similar to halo nuclei.

In the Mizuno case we certainly will see 4-He with a 4-He a part > that 
10^6 of the 3-He part.


Jürg

Am 14.07.19 um 20:45 schrieb JonesBeene:


*From: *Jed Rothwell 

  * I assume there is one fundamental cause of cold fusion in all
systems. It is the same thing in all cases. This is similar to
saying that fission is the same in reactors and bombs, although it
looks and acts quite different.

This “one fundamental cause” could be the problem – you are tied to an 
assumption which is not proved. The fission analogy is not useful.


Of course such a basic logical error would hinder anyone’s ability to 
look beyond the limitations of the P effect – aka “cold fusion”. In 
fact in the earlier Mizuno work with nickel at higher pressure - cited 
in an older thread here -  where Mizuno  uses both protium and 
deuterium in different comparative runs at higher pressure  -  he gets 
actually better results (more excess heat) from  protium than with 
deuterium. You cannot deny this result.


To me this is solid evidence direct from Mizuno that there is more 
than “one fundamental cause” to excess heat – one being fusion and the 
other being very different; and thus all future devices must recognize 
that nuclear fusion is not required for excess heat. This is actually 
highly  desirable as "fusion” alone opens the regulatory doors for all 
kinds of unnecessary government intrusion.


Bottom line is that at least two fundamental causes of excess heat 
exist.  Possibly more. One is nuclear fusion seen in electrolysis 
where typically lithium and high loading play a role.  Another cause 
is a non-fusion reaction with nickel as the reactant, low loading is 
desirable, and no lithium is needed.


A third possible reaction also acknowledged by Mizuno (and by Ed 
Storms) is sequential cluster formation with its signature radiation 
of 630 eV. That third one alone could be used for excess heat without 
the other two.


The nickel reaction works with either hydrogen or deuterium and to 
confuse things it is probably based on a “nuclear coupling” of some 
kind - (mass converted into energy) but it is not “nuclear fusion.”


It is pretty clear that both or all three fundamental causes for gain 
are valid over a thirty year history, and very different from each 
other - and no one knows this more clearly than Mizuno as it stands 
out prominently from his earlier papers.


Jones



--
Jürg Wyttenbach
Bifangstr.22
8910 Affoltern a.A.
044 760 14 18
079 246 36 06

Re: [Vo]:If Mizuno is correct, this design is likely to betheprecursor to all future devices

[Axil Axil]

Dewey
July 13, 2019 at 1:13 PM
Dr Rossi,
I return to the comment of Neri Accornero: can you give a hint, not
superficial, but not too difficult, about what can happen if your effect is
not fusion, not fission, not chemical reaction?

Andrea Rossi
July 13, 2019 at 1:33 PM
Dewey:
Please go to
http://www.researchgate.net...

All the references cited here are the same reported in the above mentioned
paper.
In [13] a fundamental connection between Aharonov-Bohm equations and an
electron model is proposed, starting from a geometric interpretation of the
electron wave-function complex phase [6,8,1].
This approach suggests the possibility of efficiently creating electron
condensates exploiting the Aharonov-Bohm effect, a phenomenon that shows
the dependence of electron wave-function phase from electromagnetic
potentials [9].
Warm Regards,
A.R.


Aharonov-Bohm effect
https://disq.us/url?url=https%3A%2F%2Fen.wikipedia.org%2Fwiki%2FAharonov%25E2%2580%2593Bohm_effect%3ALTnbbRNmquXoFpfvayH973nqFc4=2168707

Rossi is looking for a quantum mechanical mechanism that enables an
ensemble of electrons to convert from a fermion to a boson so that those
electrons can form a Bose condensate(BC). A BC is the means by which
electrons can form a meta-stable ensemble that can hold together in a long
lived plasmoid configuration which is connected to ultra dense matter: what
Rossi calls "Neutral pico-metric aggregates".

The intent of this posit is very close to what is really going on in the
LENR reaction. Rossi has not yet stumbled upon the correct quantum
mechanical mechanism that enables electrons to change their fermionic
nature into bosons.

The correct mechanism involves the entanglement of phonons, excitons or
plasmons polaritons with electrons. There is a ton of nanophotonic theory
and experimental evidence that covers this subject.

On the theory of three types of polaritons (phonon, exciton and plasmon
polaritons)
https://iopscience.iop.org/...


The rabbit hole that this subject engenders is as big as all outdoors. This
subject matter is currently a very hot subject is optics. In my opinion,
optics is a very difficult area of physics to get our heads around. This
subject also leads to many other subjects that a truly mind boggling and
beyond current science to explain.

It is also apparent that Rossi must be getting competent professional help
in formulating his theory... Rossi is not working alone. It is fair to say
based on the very advanced state of his theory of LENR that Rossi also must
have something substantial that is working and close to if not currently
functional.

On Sun, Jul 14, 2019 at 3:19 PM Axil Axil  wrote:

> First, PP fusion is not possible on earth. It can only occur deep inside
> the cores of stars where the mass of protium reactants is huge.
>
> The roll of hydrogen in the LENR reaction is to promote the nanoplasmonic
> reaction enabled by a irregular micro surface such as cracks, pits and
> holes.
>
> Fusion and fission of elements does happen in the LENR reaction as
> witnessed by the evidence of transmutation. But any energy that is produced
> by these nuclear reactions is hidden from reality because of time dilation.
>
> https://youtu.be/Bg9MVRQYmBQ
>
> time dilation is a result of general relativity, The flow of time inside
> the LENR reaction almost always produces stable nuclear reactants in ash
> while it is hiding that energy and particle so produced from reality. Only
> when the LENR reaction is terminated is energy released by the LENR
> reaction.
>
> Sometimes rarely, only when a polariton Bose condensate is not formed in a
> very weak LENR reaction when the density of polariton formation is very low
> will gamma, neutrons and other particles emirate from the LENR reaction.
>
>
>
> On Sun, Jul 14, 2019 at 2:46 PM JonesBeene  wrote:
>
>> *From: *Jed Rothwell 
>>
>>
>>
>>- I assume there is one fundamental cause of cold fusion in all
>>systems. It is the same thing in all cases. This is similar to saying that
>>fission is the same in reactors and bombs, although it looks and acts 
>> quite
>>different.
>>
>>
>>
>> This “one fundamental cause” could be the problem – you are tied to an
>> assumption which is not proved. The fission analogy is not useful.
>>
>>
>>
>> Of course such a basic logical error would hinder anyone’s ability to
>> look beyond the limitations of the P effect – aka “cold fusion”. In fact
>> in the earlier Mizuno work with nickel at higher pressure - cited in an
>> older thread here -  where Mizuno  uses both protium and deuterium in
>> different comparative runs at higher pressure  -  he gets actually better
>> 

Re: [Vo]:If Mizuno is correct, this design is likely to betheprecursor to all future devices

[Axil Axil]

First, PP fusion is not possible on earth. It can only occur deep inside
the cores of stars where the mass of protium reactants is huge.

The roll of hydrogen in the LENR reaction is to promote the nanoplasmonic
reaction enabled by a irregular micro surface such as cracks, pits and
holes.

Fusion and fission of elements does happen in the LENR reaction as
witnessed by the evidence of transmutation. But any energy that is produced
by these nuclear reactions is hidden from reality because of time dilation.

https://youtu.be/Bg9MVRQYmBQ

time dilation is a result of general relativity, The flow of time inside
the LENR reaction almost always produces stable nuclear reactants in ash
while it is hiding that energy and particle so produced from reality. Only
when the LENR reaction is terminated is energy released by the LENR
reaction.

Sometimes rarely, only when a polariton Bose condensate is not formed in a
very weak LENR reaction when the density of polariton formation is very low
will gamma, neutrons and other particles emirate from the LENR reaction.



On Sun, Jul 14, 2019 at 2:46 PM JonesBeene  wrote:

> *From: *Jed Rothwell 
>
>
>
>- I assume there is one fundamental cause of cold fusion in all
>systems. It is the same thing in all cases. This is similar to saying that
>fission is the same in reactors and bombs, although it looks and acts quite
>different.
>
>
>
> This “one fundamental cause” could be the problem – you are tied to an
> assumption which is not proved. The fission analogy is not useful.
>
>
>
> Of course such a basic logical error would hinder anyone’s ability to look
> beyond the limitations of the P effect – aka “cold fusion”. In fact in
> the earlier Mizuno work with nickel at higher pressure - cited in an older
> thread here -  where Mizuno  uses both protium and deuterium in different
> comparative runs at higher pressure  -  he gets actually better results
> (more excess heat) from  protium than with deuterium. You cannot deny this
> result.
>
>
>
> To me this is solid evidence direct from Mizuno that there is more than
> “one fundamental cause” to excess heat – one being fusion and the other
> being very different; and thus all future devices must recognize that
> nuclear fusion is not required for excess heat. This is actually highly
>  desirable as "fusion” alone opens the regulatory doors for all kinds of
> unnecessary government intrusion.
>
>
>
> Bottom line is that at least two fundamental causes of excess heat exist.
> Possibly more. One is nuclear fusion seen in electrolysis where typically
> lithium and high loading play a role.  Another cause is a non-fusion
> reaction with nickel as the reactant, low loading is desirable, and no
> lithium is needed.
>
>
>
> A third possible reaction also acknowledged by Mizuno (and by Ed Storms)
> is sequential cluster formation with its signature radiation of 630 eV.
> That third one alone could be used for excess heat without the other two.
>
>
>
> The nickel reaction works with either hydrogen or deuterium and to confuse
> things it is probably based on a “nuclear coupling” of some kind - (mass
> converted into energy) but it is not “nuclear fusion.”
>
>
>
> It is pretty clear that both or all three fundamental causes for gain are
> valid over a thirty year history, and very different from each other - and
> no one knows this more clearly than Mizuno as it stands out prominently
> from his earlier papers.
>
>
>
> Jones
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

Re: [Vo]:If Mizuno is correct, this design is likely to be theprecursor to all future devices

[Axil Axil]

Jed is exactly spot on in that crack formation through high deuterium
loading amplifies nanoplasmonic effects in the reactive substrate. But as
Mizuno has shown, the key to a sucessful reaction is low deuterium loading.
This is a oxymoron that has befuddled LENR theory for decades. Ir was
indicated on rare occasions when an LENR experiment lost pressure and there
was a spice in the generation of excess power as a result.

It is my belief that an active LENR reaction does not produce or more
rightly said reveal power production until the reaction has terminated. Low
deuterium loading makes this flickering of the LENR reaction possible
whereas high deuterium loading hides power production from reality.

On Sun, Jul 14, 2019 at 1:28 PM Jed Rothwell  wrote:

> JonesBeene  wrote:
>
>>
>
>> The problem with any analysis being touted as the basis for future
>> devices -  is pinpointing the full and correct understanding of the
>> operating principle. Unfortunately, the operating principle of this device
>> is not well-described by Ed Storms. It would be a big mistake to apply
>> Storms’ insight on palladium electrolysis to such an extremely different
>> device.
>>
>
> I do not know about Ed's theory, but what I think may be true is that the
> shape of the surface (morphology) plays a key role. The nano-cracks play a
> key role. With this device, the Pd expands with loading at a different rate
> than Ni does. Since they are bound together, this forces open nano-cracks.
> Which is where Ed thinks the reaction occurs. Even if he is wrong about the
> precise mechanism or the events in the cracks, this might be true. Similar
> nano-cracks might explain cold fusion in other implementations, and what
> look like very different systems.
>
> I assume there is one fundamental cause of cold fusion in all systems. It
> is the same thing in all cases. This is similar to saying that fission is
> the same in reactors and bombs, although it looks and acts quite different.
>
>
> Storms theory was derived from electrolysis experiments at (generally) low
>> power input and output and using (generally) lithium based electrolyte and
>> notably the most reliable  level of  thermal gain is in the range of watts
>> per gram of palladium.
>
>
> Some of those experiments produced 100 W or more with a high gain and 16
> W/cm^2. See:
>
> https://lenr-canr.org/wordpress/?page_id=1618
>
>

RE: [Vo]:If Mizuno is correct, this design is likely to betheprecursor to all future devices

[JonesBeene]

From: Jed Rothwell

➢ I assume there is one fundamental cause of cold fusion in all systems. It is 
the same thing in all cases. This is similar to saying that fission is the same 
in reactors and bombs, although it looks and acts quite different.

This “one fundamental cause” could be the problem – you are tied to an 
assumption which is not proved. The fission analogy is not useful.

Of course such a basic logical error would hinder anyone’s ability to look 
beyond the limitations of the P effect – aka “cold fusion”. In fact in the 
earlier Mizuno work with nickel at higher pressure - cited in an older thread 
here -  where Mizuno  uses both protium and deuterium in different comparative 
runs at higher pressure  -  he gets actually better results (more excess heat) 
from  protium than with deuterium. You cannot deny this result.

To me this is solid evidence direct from Mizuno that there is more than “one 
fundamental cause” to excess heat – one being fusion and the other being very 
different; and thus all future devices must recognize that nuclear fusion is 
not required for excess heat. This is actually highly  desirable as "fusion” 
alone opens the regulatory doors for all kinds of unnecessary government 
intrusion.

Bottom line is that at least two fundamental causes of excess heat exist.  
Possibly more. One is nuclear fusion seen in electrolysis where typically 
lithium and high loading play a role.  Another cause is a non-fusion reaction 
with nickel as the reactant, low loading is desirable, and no lithium is needed.

A third possible reaction also acknowledged by Mizuno (and by Ed Storms) is 
sequential cluster formation with its signature radiation of 630 eV. That third 
one alone could be used for excess heat without the other two.

 The nickel reaction works with either hydrogen or deuterium and to confuse 
things it is probably based on a “nuclear coupling” of some kind - (mass 
converted into energy) but it is not “nuclear fusion.”

 It is pretty clear that both or all three fundamental causes for gain are 
valid over a thirty year history, and very different from each other - and no 
one knows this more clearly than Mizuno as it stands out prominently from his 
earlier papers.

Jones

Re: [Vo]:If Mizuno is correct, this design is likely to be theprecursor to all future devices

[Jed Rothwell]

JonesBeene  wrote:

>

> The problem with any analysis being touted as the basis for future devices
> -  is pinpointing the full and correct understanding of the operating
> principle. Unfortunately, the operating principle of this device is not
> well-described by Ed Storms. It would be a big mistake to apply Storms’
> insight on palladium electrolysis to such an extremely different device.
>

I do not know about Ed's theory, but what I think may be true is that the
shape of the surface (morphology) plays a key role. The nano-cracks play a
key role. With this device, the Pd expands with loading at a different rate
than Ni does. Since they are bound together, this forces open nano-cracks.
Which is where Ed thinks the reaction occurs. Even if he is wrong about the
precise mechanism or the events in the cracks, this might be true. Similar
nano-cracks might explain cold fusion in other implementations, and what
look like very different systems.

I assume there is one fundamental cause of cold fusion in all systems. It
is the same thing in all cases. This is similar to saying that fission is
the same in reactors and bombs, although it looks and acts quite different.


Storms theory was derived from electrolysis experiments at (generally) low
> power input and output and using (generally) lithium based electrolyte and
> notably the most reliable  level of  thermal gain is in the range of watts
> per gram of palladium.


Some of those experiments produced 100 W or more with a high gain and 16
W/cm^2. See:

https://lenr-canr.org/wordpress/?page_id=1618

RE: [Vo]:If Mizuno is correct, this design is likely to be theprecursor to all future devices

[JonesBeene]

The problem with any analysis being touted as the basis for future devices -  
is pinpointing the full and correct understanding of the operating principle. 
Unfortunately, the operating principle of this device is not well-described by 
Ed Storms. It would be a big mistake to apply Storms’ insight on palladium 
electrolysis to such an extremely different device. In fact that suggestion can 
be described as counter-productive.

Storms theory was derived from electrolysis experiments at (generally) low 
power input and output and using (generally) lithium based electrolyte and 
notably the most reliable  level of  thermal gain is in the range of watts per 
gram of palladium. 

Storms finds that - by far (and we should emphasize “by far”) -  the optimal 
energy for nuclear reactions in electrolysis is well under 10 watts and the 
drop off is extremely steep thereafter. This fits with the low powered 
experiments of many others and also a basis in QM. See Storms and Scanlan / 
Journal of Condensed Matter Nuclear Science 4 (2011) 17–31 FIG 1.

The details of Mizuno’s breakthrough  are far from electrolysis - devoid of any 
indication of nuclear fusion even at the kilowatt level. Importantly, high 
loading of hydrogen is to be avoided instead of being absolutely required. That 
detail is most telling.

Morevoer, the thermal output is 100,000 times higher in terms of watts per gram 
of palladium – indicating that nickel is the active reactant and palladium 
serves mainly as a spillover catalyst and not a reactant for gain. 

Nickel - for the past 30 years  is simply not associated with nuclear fusion at 
all, but is associated very closely with excess heat and EUV or soft x-rays – 
and  in some of the best experiments to have shown up in Fusion the premiere 
journal. 

The nature of the reaction involving very low inventory of hydrogen and low 
loading -  and Mizuno’s own recent writings point more to a dense hydrogen 
modality as framed by Holmlid, Piantelli, Hora, Miley, Winterberg, Mills, 
Meulenberg  etc. etc.  instead of and with limited relationship to cold fusion. 

This of course means that the underlying gain is NOT fusion but still  
“nuclear” (derived from nuclear mass) so LENR is the correct descriptor.

The nucleus is  intimately coupled energetically to electrons and the binding 
energy of the nucleus can be shared and thermalized into heat at an impressive 
level (as Mizuno has hopefully demonstrated). The gain comes from the strong 
force via QCD. Any fusion seen will be incidental and insufficient to explain 
kilowatts of excess heat.

IMHO - the lure and lore of “cold fusion” per se will probably take another hit 
when it is found that the Mizuno breakthrough is not fusion at all -  but at 
the same time, it  is indeed nuclear.

Jones