Re: [Vo]:Rossi heat exchanger fitting / SOME flow data
Hello. At http://www.focus.it/scienza/e-cat_collezione_C9.aspx you will find a collection of 120 images and at http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL360E4122CB586EB7feature=viewall 20 short videoclips of the E-Cat test (2011, oct. 6). The collection is not for public purpose (despite a misunderstanding with Daniele Passerini): is my entire series of photos of the event. There are few technical images; videos show a bit more. I put it there to use if it can serve to clarify the details, if possible. Photographs and videos are small and in low resolution: if you need a high resolution please send your request to zreickATgmailDOTcom. On Tue, Oct 11, 2011 at 7:13 PM, Daniel Rocha danieldi...@gmail.com wrote: Welcome Raymond! Your testimony of Rossi's presentation and opinions will be very valuable to our discussions! 2011/10/11 Raymond Zreick zre...@gmail.com Hy Alan, I'm Raymond Zreick, journalist for Focus magazine (Italy). This is my first message in this mailing list. @Alan I don't think we even know what pump was used (piston? peristaltic) it doesn't show in any of the videos. peristaltic It is also in the Lewan's technical report. I have some pictures of the room where the test was done, I'll put them online (maybe tomorrow, but I'm not sure). === Raymond Zreick, Focus/Focus.it http://www.focus.it
Re: [Vo]:Rossi heat exchanger fitting / SOME flow data
Hi Robert, If this excess energy over what is required to heat .9g/s of water to 124C is somehow stored in the eCAT (say, as thermal energy in a fairly well insulated block of steel) then it would be enough energy to possibly give the impression of a self sustaining reaction for at least 3 hours. So a scam is possible based on primary temperatures. The secondary heat exchanger showed temperature differences up to 8C which requires a power of ~8000W which is more than the 2436W that 0.9g/sec of steam at 124C has. I did note in the July test of the Big Cat they used a flow rate of 11kg/hr. I'd like to see some confirmation of the primary flow rate for the October test.. Colin On Tue, Oct 11, 2011 at 6:44 AM, Robert Leguillon robert.leguil...@hotmail.com wrote: Let's now take this to its logical conclusion. At a primary flow rate of .91 g/s, the evidence makes it look as though the average power (including the power applied by the band heater) over the entire span, could not have been over 2.5 kW. Anything higher would have resulted in higher E-Cat temps than its 124C peak. So, 2.436 kW is our ceiling - maybe a little higher if you assume some loss through the thermal blankets. It begs the question, What's the floor?: Only 380.75 watts are required to raise the incoming water at 24C to 124C. We know some water was boiling, due to the sound, feel and relative temperature stability. But, as with every demonstration, we cannot determine how much. This leaves us wondering whether the average power was closer to 380 watts or 2.5 kw. Robert Lynn robert.gulliver.l...@gmail.com wrote: During Mat's walk through video I make it about 40+/-1 Hz, with same LMI P18 pump with 2ml max stroke (and back pressure of at least 1.3bar if making 124°C steam, pump is limited to 1.5bar) http://www.lmi-pumps.com/datasheets/Pseries-08-01.pdf, that would suggest at maximum 1.3g/s and probably less given close to maximum pressure. http://www.nyteknik.se/nyheter/energi_miljo/energi/article3284823.ece If so then the heat developed during walkthrough is not more than 3.6kw (1.3g/s 24°C water to 124°C steam) but might be less than 2.45kW (0.91g/s 24°C water to 124°C steam), unless the water level in the reactor was dropping. At same point in the walk through Mat shows delta T on secondary of 6.5°C and says that it is flowing 600l/hr (167g/s), that would give a power output of 4.5kW. So the secondary is putting out more heat than the primary could be delivering. This shows that the calorimetry is almost certainly overestimating output by at least 20% (prime candidates are bad outlet thermocouple positon, poor calibration of thermocouples), though it could be a lot more. On 10 October 2011 22:24, Alan J Fletcher a...@well.com wrote: At 02:09 PM 10/10/2011, Jed Rothwell wrote: Alan J Fletcher a...@well.com wrote: It's buried in Lewan's data -- but as he pointed out in his responses to Krivit, he DID measure the eCat output flow twice (presumably at the usual drain). He read it at the drain and also, during the video, from the flowmeter. The flowmeter and volume measurements are on the SECONDARY. The flow results for the secondary are fine .. as is its input temperature. He made TWO measurements on the PRIMARY flow ... one at the end of sustaining, and one after the hydrogen was purged and the peristaltic pump was increased. We DO have the click-rate of the primary pump recorded during Lewan's walk-through. Not time-stamped, but he says about 1 hour ago we went into self-sustaining mode.
Re: [Vo]:Rossi heat exchanger fitting / SOME flow data
Am 11.10.2011 16:01, schrieb Colin Hercus: Hi Robert, If this excess energy over what is required to heat .9g/s of water to 124C is somehow stored in the eCAT (say, as thermal energy in a fairly well insulated block of steel) then it would be enough energy to possibly give the impression of a self sustaining reaction for at least 3 hours. So a scam is possible based on primary temperatures. The secondary heat exchanger showed temperature differences up to 8C which requires a power of ~8000W which is more than the 2436W that 0.9g/sec of steam at 124C has. I did note in the July test of the Big Cat they used a flow rate of 11kg/hr. I'd like to see some confirmation of the primary flow rate for the October test.. Rossi wrote: 15kg/h here: http://www.journal-of-nuclear-physics.com/?p=510cpage=20#comment-94236 Colin On Tue, Oct 11, 2011 at 6:44 AM, Robert Leguillon robert.leguil...@hotmail.com mailto:robert.leguil...@hotmail.com wrote: Let's now take this to its logical conclusion. At a primary flow rate of .91 g/s, the evidence makes it look as though the average power (including the power applied by the band heater) over the entire span, could not have been over 2.5 kW. Anything higher would have resulted in higher E-Cat temps than its 124C peak. So, 2.436 kW is our ceiling - maybe a little higher if you assume some loss through the thermal blankets. It begs the question, What's the floor?: Only 380.75 watts are required to raise the incoming water at 24C to 124C. We know some water was boiling, due to the sound, feel and relative temperature stability. But, as with every demonstration, we cannot determine how much. This leaves us wondering whether the average power was closer to 380 watts or 2.5 kw. Robert Lynn robert.gulliver.l...@gmail.com mailto:robert.gulliver.l...@gmail.com wrote: During Mat's walk through video I make it about 40+/-1 Hz, with same LMI P18 pump with 2ml max stroke (and back pressure of at least 1.3bar if making 124°C steam, pump is limited to 1.5bar) http://www.lmi-pumps.com/datasheets/Pseries-08-01.pdf, that would suggest at maximum 1.3g/s and probably less given close to maximum pressure. http://www.nyteknik.se/nyheter/energi_miljo/energi/article3284823.ece If so then the heat developed during walkthrough is not more than 3.6kw (1.3g/s 24°C water to 124°C steam) but might be less than 2.45kW (0.91g/s 24°C water to 124°C steam), unless the water level in the reactor was dropping. At same point in the walk through Mat shows delta T on secondary of 6.5°C and says that it is flowing 600l/hr (167g/s), that would give a power output of 4.5kW. So the secondary is putting out more heat than the primary could be delivering. This shows that the calorimetry is almost certainly overestimating output by at least 20% (prime candidates are bad outlet thermocouple positon, poor calibration of thermocouples), though it could be a lot more. On 10 October 2011 22:24, Alan J Fletcher a...@well.com mailto:a...@well.com wrote: At 02:09 PM 10/10/2011, Jed Rothwell wrote: Alan J Fletcher a...@well.com mailto:a...@well.com wrote: It's buried in Lewan's data -- but as he pointed out in his responses to Krivit, he DID measure the eCat output flow twice (presumably at the usual drain). He read it at the drain and also, during the video, from the flowmeter. The flowmeter and volume measurements are on the SECONDARY. The flow results for the secondary are fine .. as is its input temperature. He made TWO measurements on the PRIMARY flow ... one at the end of sustaining, and one after the hydrogen was purged and the peristaltic pump was increased. We DO have the click-rate of the primary pump recorded during Lewan's walk-through. Not time-stamped, but he says about 1 hour ago we went into self-sustaining mode.
Re: [Vo]:Rossi heat exchanger fitting / SOME flow data
Pump capacity and pump stroke contradict 15 kg / hour. The observers twice collected the output, and it was .91 g/s during operation, and still under 2 g/s after it was sped up during quenching. See Robert Lynn's calculations below, with manufacturer and video reference, or just look at the Ny Teknik report for the measurements that were taken at the heat exchanger primary-side output. Peter Heckert peter.heck...@arcor.de wrote: Am 11.10.2011 16:01, schrieb Colin Hercus: Hi Robert, If this excess energy over what is required to heat .9g/s of water to 124C is somehow stored in the eCAT (say, as thermal energy in a fairly well insulated block of steel) then it would be enough energy to possibly give the impression of a self sustaining reaction for at least 3 hours. So a scam is possible based on primary temperatures. The secondary heat exchanger showed temperature differences up to 8C which requires a power of ~8000W which is more than the 2436W that 0.9g/sec of steam at 124C has. I did note in the July test of the Big Cat they used a flow rate of 11kg/hr. I'd like to see some confirmation of the primary flow rate for the October test.. Rossi wrote: 15kg/h here: http://www.journal-of-nuclear-physics.com/?p=510cpage=20#comment-94236 Colin On Tue, Oct 11, 2011 at 6:44 AM, Robert Leguillon robert.leguil...@hotmail.com mailto:robert.leguil...@hotmail.com wrote: Let's now take this to its logical conclusion. At a primary flow rate of .91 g/s, the evidence makes it look as though the average power (including the power applied by the band heater) over the entire span, could not have been over 2.5 kW. Anything higher would have resulted in higher E-Cat temps than its 124C peak. So, 2.436 kW is our ceiling - maybe a little higher if you assume some loss through the thermal blankets. It begs the question, What's the floor?: Only 380.75 watts are required to raise the incoming water at 24C to 124C. We know some water was boiling, due to the sound, feel and relative temperature stability. But, as with every demonstration, we cannot determine how much. This leaves us wondering whether the average power was closer to 380 watts or 2.5 kw. Robert Lynn robert.gulliver.l...@gmail.com mailto:robert.gulliver.l...@gmail.com wrote: During Mat's walk through video I make it about 40+/-1 Hz, with same LMI P18 pump with 2ml max stroke (and back pressure of at least 1.3bar if making 124°C steam, pump is limited to 1.5bar) http://www.lmi-pumps.com/datasheets/Pseries-08-01.pdf, that would suggest at maximum 1.3g/s and probably less given close to maximum pressure. http://www.nyteknik.se/nyheter/energi_miljo/energi/article3284823.ece If so then the heat developed during walkthrough is not more than 3.6kw (1.3g/s 24°C water to 124°C steam) but might be less than 2.45kW (0.91g/s 24°C water to 124°C steam), unless the water level in the reactor was dropping. At same point in the walk through Mat shows delta T on secondary of 6.5°C and says that it is flowing 600l/hr (167g/s), that would give a power output of 4.5kW. So the secondary is putting out more heat than the primary could be delivering. This shows that the calorimetry is almost certainly overestimating output by at least 20% (prime candidates are bad outlet thermocouple positon, poor calibration of thermocouples), though it could be a lot more. On 10 October 2011 22:24, Alan J Fletcher a...@well.com mailto:a...@well.com wrote: At 02:09 PM 10/10/2011, Jed Rothwell wrote: Alan J Fletcher a...@well.com mailto:a...@well.com wrote: It's buried in Lewan's data -- but as he pointed out in his responses to Krivit, he DID measure the eCat output flow twice (presumably at the usual drain). He read it at the drain and also, during the video, from the flowmeter. The flowmeter and volume measurements are on the SECONDARY. The flow results for the secondary are fine .. as is its input temperature. He made TWO measurements on the PRIMARY flow ... one at the end of sustaining, and one after the hydrogen was purged and the peristaltic pump was increased. We DO have the click-rate of the primary pump recorded during Lewan's walk-through. Not time-stamped, but he says about 1 hour ago we went into self-sustaining mode.
Re: [Vo]:Rossi heat exchanger fitting / SOME flow data
At 09:19 AM 10/11/2011, Peter Heckert wrote: Rossi wrote: 15kg/h here: http://www.journal-of-nuclear-physics.com/?p=510cpage=20#comment-94236 That's 4.17 g/s -- Lewan recorded 0.9 (stable) and 1.9 (cool-down). I don't think we even know what pump was used (piston? peristaltic) -- it doesn't show in any of the videos.
Re: [Vo]:Rossi heat exchanger fitting / SOME flow data
Am 11.10.2011 18:37, schrieb Alan J Fletcher: At 09:19 AM 10/11/2011, Peter Heckert wrote: Rossi wrote: 15kg/h here: http://www.journal-of-nuclear-physics.com/?p=510cpage=20#comment-94236 http://www.journal-of-nuclear-physics.com/?p=510cpage=20#comment-94236 That's 4.17 g/s -- Lewan recorded 0.9 (stable) and 1.9 (cool-down). It could be, the e-cat was throwing out water in chunks. Easy to imagine, if it boils. Then Lewans measurement is not representative. I don't think we even know what pump was used (piston? peristaltic) -- it doesn't show in any of the videos. The pump is specified in Lewans report. It has a maximum of 12 kg/h. This similar in an earlier demonstration. Possibly they exchanged the pump peristaltic hose, then it is possible.
Re: [Vo]:Rossi heat exchanger fitting / SOME flow data
At 09:37 AM 10/11/2011, Alan J Fletcher wrote: At 09:19 AM 10/11/2011, Peter Heckert wrote: Rossi wrote: 15kg/h here: http://www.journal-of-nuclear-physics.com/?p=510cpage=20#comment-94236 That's 4.17 g/s -- Lewan recorded 0.9 (stable) and 1.9 (cool-down). I don't think we even know what pump was used (piston? peristaltic) -- it doesn't show in any of the videos. Lewan's September results -- using the same fat-cat box (except Rossi said it contained multiple eCats) --- Flow 13 l/hour -- which isn't far off Rossi's reported 15 l/hour -- but WAY off Lewan's 0.9 g/s 13 or 15 l/hour would allow 9.4 or 10.8 kW of 1 bar 120 C superheated steam to reach the heat exchanger, and is in line with what was measured. Lewan's 0.9 g /s = 3.2 l/hr can only deliver 2.4 kW
Re: [Vo]:Rossi heat exchanger fitting / SOME flow data
Hy Alan, I'm Raymond Zreick, journalist for Focus magazine (Italy). This is my first message in this mailing list. @Alan I don't think we even know what pump was used (piston? peristaltic) it doesn't show in any of the videos. peristaltic It is also in the Lewan's technical report. I have some pictures of the room where the test was done, I'll put them online (maybe tomorrow, but I'm not sure). === Raymond Zreick, Focus/Focus.it http://www.focus.it
Re: [Vo]:Rossi heat exchanger fitting / SOME flow data
At 09:51 AM 10/11/2011, Peter Heckert wrote: Am 11.10.2011 18:37, schrieb Alan J Fletcher: At 09:19 AM 10/11/2011, Peter Heckert wrote: Rossi wrote: 15kg/h here: http://www.journal-of-nuclear-physics.com/?p=510cpage=20#comment-94236 That's 4.17 g/s -- Lewan recorded 0.9 (stable) and 1.9 (cool-down).It could be, the e-cat was throwing out water in chunks. Easy to imagine, if it boils. Then Lewans measurement is not representative. I don't think we even know what pump was used (piston? peristaltic) -- it doesn't show in any of the videos. The pump is specified in Lewans report. It has a maximum of 12 kg/h. This similar in an earlier demonstration. Possibly they exchanged the pump peristaltic hose, then it is possible. Peristaltic pump NSF Model # CEP183-362N3 Serial # 060550065 Max output 12.0 liters/h Max press 1.50 bar So it was a maximum of 12 l/hr during cool-down, and if we take Lewan's numbers as a ratio -- 6 l/hr when stable. 12l/hr gives a maximum transfer rate of 8.8 kW -- close to the peak 7.6 kW recorded on the secondary. It could be, the e-cat was throwing out water in chunks. Yes, we still have to explain the variability of the secondary output (Horace Heffner's slug hypothesis), which matches the 50% water 50% steam we had in September. Still ... the numbers just don't add up.
Re: [Vo]:Rossi heat exchanger fitting / SOME flow data
Welcome Raymond! Your testimony of Rossi's presentation and opinions will be very valuable to our discussions! 2011/10/11 Raymond Zreick zre...@gmail.com Hy Alan, I'm Raymond Zreick, journalist for Focus magazine (Italy). This is my first message in this mailing list. @Alan I don't think we even know what pump was used (piston? peristaltic) it doesn't show in any of the videos. peristaltic It is also in the Lewan's technical report. I have some pictures of the room where the test was done, I'll put them online (maybe tomorrow, but I'm not sure). === Raymond Zreick, Focus/Focus.it http://www.focus.it
Re: [Vo]:Rossi heat exchanger fitting / SOME flow data
At 10:13 AM 10/11/2011, Daniel Rocha wrote: 2011/10/11 Raymond Zreick zre...@gmail.com Hy Alan, I'm Raymond Zreick, journalist for Focus magazine (Italy). This is my first message in this mailing list. Welcome to Vortex ! Some of us are still trying to figure out what happened in the demonstration. It will be good to have first-hand information.
Re: [Vo]:Rossi heat exchanger fitting / SOME flow data
Peristaltic pump NSF Model # CEP183-362N3 Serial # 060550065 Max output 12.0 liters/h Max press 1.50 bar So it was a maximum of 12 l/hr during cool-down, and if we take Lewan's numbers as a ratio -- 6 l/hr when stable. 12l/hr gives a maximum transfer rate of 8.8 kW -- close to the peak 7.6 kW recorded on the secondary. http://www.lmipumps.com/Files/lmi/Global/US-en/products/1713e.pdf If you know what the frequency is (the large thumping noise in all the videos about every second or so) then you can tell what the maximum flow rate is because the pump is only capable of deliverting 2ml per stroke.
Re: [Vo]:Rossi heat exchanger fitting / SOME flow data
Hy Daniel. @Daniel Rocha Your testimony of Rossi's presentation and opinions will be very valuable to our discussions! @Alan Fletcher Some of us are still trying to figure out what happened in the demonstration. It will be good to have first-hand information. Yes, but mine are only impressions. I have not collected technical data and those of Lewan (which I think has done a good job, painstaking and precise) are already subject to too many discussions. On the E-Cat test I'm working to post video interviews (thursday), videos of some details of the set-up unpackaged in the evening and a number of previously unpublished photo. === Raymond Zreick, Focus/Focus.it http://www.focus.it
Re: [Vo]:Rossi heat exchanger fitting / SOME flow data
At 10:26 AM 10/11/2011, Robert Lynn wrote: Peristaltic pump NSF Model # CEP183-362N3 Serial # 060550065 Max output 12.0 liters/h Max press 1.50 bar So it was a maximum of 12 l/hr during cool-down, and if we take Lewan's numbers as a ratio -- 6 l/hr when stable. 12l/hr gives a maximum transfer rate of 8.8 kW -- close to the peak 7.6 kW recorded on the secondary. http://www.lmipumps.com/Files/lmi/Global/US-en/products/1713e.pdf If you know what the frequency is (the large thumping noise in all the videos about every second or so) then you can tell what the maximum flow rate is because the pump is only capable of deliverting 2ml per stroke. Somebody said 40 strokes a minute (it's audible in Lewan's video) ... which makes 1.33 g /sec (4.8 l/hr) - fairly close to Lewan's 0.9 And there's probably some back-pressure.
RE: [Vo]:Rossi heat exchanger fitting / SOME flow data
The data from the September test is great, in this aspect. They did it right. They were filling the E-Cat from a reservoir, and after it was boiling, they gave us the net weight of water in the input reservoir at 21:07, then logged every time water was added, and provided us a final weight. Water flow inlet Added water during start up, from 18:30: 15640 + 9380 + 9473 + 9959 = 44452 grams. Remaining in the inlet reservoir when the temperature inside the E-cat reached 100°C at 21:07: 8431 grams. Consumed in 2:37 hours (2.62 hours): 36021 grams Flow during start-up: 13.76 kg/hour Added water from 21:07: 8431 + 10089 + 10460 + 6591 + 9960 = 45531 grams. Remaining in the inlet reservoir at 23:10: 22823 grams. Consumed in 2:03 hours (2.05 hours): 22708 grams Flow during boiling: 11.08 kg/hour. Total running time 100°C: 2:05 (2.08) hours Total flow 100 degrees (from 21:05): 23.0 kg IMPORTANT: In the September test, there is no reference to increasing flow at the end, they just turn the pump off. This begs the question if the September test had the pump running at full capacity. If so, the rate seen during Septembers operation of 11.08 kg/hr (3.1 g/sec) would be EVEN LOWER during the October test. We know for a fact that the October test, the pump was not running at full capacity, because they specifically stated that the increased the flow during quenching. Obviously, the pump does not put out consistent pressure, as seen in the September test. Was it slowed down for the October test? Was it harder to push through the heat exchanger, across the floor, under the doormat, then up into the drain, than the September test? If the placement of the thermocouples on the heat exchanger cause us to throw out that temperature data, and the E-Cat calorimetry is plagued with phase-change and unknown water flow, just where do we stand? Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2011 18:26:43 +0100 Subject: Re: [Vo]:Rossi heat exchanger fitting / SOME flow data From: robert.gulliver.l...@gmail.com To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Peristaltic pump NSF Model # CEP183-362N3 Serial # 060550065 Max output 12.0 liters/h Max press 1.50 bar So it was a maximum of 12 l/hr during cool-down, and if we take Lewan's numbers as a ratio -- 6 l/hr when stable. 12l/hr gives a maximum transfer rate of 8.8 kW -- close to the peak 7.6 kW recorded on the secondary. http://www.lmipumps.com/Files/lmi/Global/US-en/products/1713e.pdf If you know what the frequency is (the large thumping noise in all the videos about every second or so) then you can tell what the maximum flow rate is because the pump is only capable of deliverting 2ml per stroke.
Re: [Vo]:Rossi heat exchanger fitting / SOME flow data
At 10:59 AM 10/11/2011, Alan J Fletcher wrote: At 10:26 AM 10/11/2011, Robert Lynn wrote: Peristaltic pump NSF Model # CEP183-362N3 Serial # 060550065 Max output 12.0 liters/h Max press 1.50 bar So it was a maximum of 12 l/hr during cool-down, and if we take Lewan's numbers as a ratio -- 6 l/hr when stable. 12l/hr gives a maximum transfer rate of 8.8 kW -- close to the peak 7.6 kW recorded on the secondary. http://www.lmipumps.com/Files/lmi/Global/US-en/products/1713e.pdf If you know what the frequency is (the large thumping noise in all the videos about every second or so) then you can tell what the maximum flow rate is because the pump is only capable of deliverting 2ml per stroke. Somebody said 40 strokes a minute (it's audible in Lewan's video) ... which makes 1.33 g /sec (4.8 l/hr) - fairly close to Lewan's 0.9 And there's probably some back-pressure. Re: [Vo]:Rossi heat exchanger fitting / SOME flow dataRobert Lynn Mon, 10 Oct 2011 15:18:34 -0700 During Mat's walk through video I make it about 40+/-1 Hz, with same LMI P18 pump with 2ml max stroke (and back pressure of at least 1.3bar if making 124°C steam, pump is limited to 1.5bar) http://www.lmi-pumps.com/datasheets/Pseries-08-01.pdf, that would suggest at maximum 1.3g/s and probably less given close to maximum pressure. http://www.nyteknik.se/nyheter/energi_miljo/energi/article3284823.ece
Re: [Vo]:Rossi heat exchanger fitting / SOME flow data
I'd say that this Demo has been totaly Rossied. ;) On 11 October 2011 19:02, Robert Leguillon robert.leguil...@hotmail.comwrote: The data from the September test is great, in this aspect. They did it right. They were filling the E-Cat from a reservoir, and after it was boiling, they gave us the net weight of water in the input reservoir at 21:07, then logged every time water was added, and provided us a final weight. * Water flow inlet *Added water during start up, from 18:30: 15640 + 9380 + 9473 + 9959 = 44452 grams. Remaining in the inlet reservoir when the temperature inside the E-cat reached 100°C at 21:07: 8431 grams. Consumed in 2:37 hours (2.62 hours): 36021 grams Flow during start-up: 13.76 kg/hour Added water from 21:07: 8431 + 10089 + 10460 + 6591 + 9960 = 45531 grams. Remaining in the inlet reservoir at 23:10: 22823 grams. Consumed in 2:03 hours (2.05 hours): 22708 grams Flow during boiling: 11.08 kg/hour. Total running time 100°C: 2:05 (2.08) hours Total flow 100 degrees (from 21:05): 23.0 kg IMPORTANT: In the September test, there is no reference to increasing flow at the end, they just turn the pump off. This begs the question if the September test had the pump running at full capacity. If so, the rate seen during Septembers operation of 11.08 kg/hr (3.1 g/sec) would be EVEN LOWER during the October test. We know for a fact that the October test, the pump was not running at full capacity, because they specifically stated that the increased the flow during quenching. Obviously, the pump does not put out consistent pressure, as seen in the September test. Was it slowed down for the October test? Was it harder to push through the heat exchanger, across the floor, under the doormat, then up into the drain, than the September test? If the placement of the thermocouples on the heat exchanger cause us to throw out that temperature data, and the E-Cat calorimetry is plagued with phase-change and unknown water flow, just where do we stand? -- Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2011 18:26:43 +0100 Subject: Re: [Vo]:Rossi heat exchanger fitting / SOME flow data From: robert.gulliver.l...@gmail.com To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Peristaltic pump NSF Model # CEP183-362N3 Serial # 060550065 Max output 12.0 liters/h Max press 1.50 bar So it was a maximum of 12 l/hr during cool-down, and if we take Lewan's numbers as a ratio -- 6 l/hr when stable. 12l/hr gives a maximum transfer rate of 8.8 kW -- close to the peak 7.6 kW recorded on the secondary. http://www.lmipumps.com/Files/lmi/Global/US-en/products/1713e.pdf If you know what the frequency is (the large thumping noise in all the videos about every second or so) then you can tell what the maximum flow rate is because the pump is only capable of deliverting 2ml per stroke.
RE: [Vo]:Rossi heat exchanger fitting / SOME flow data
I forgot to mention. In the September test, before the pump was hooked up, they measure 15.8 kg/hr (4.38g/s) consumption. Once connected to the E-Cat, it dropped to 13.76 kg/hr (3.8g/s), then at boiling, it dropped to 11.08 kg/hr (3.07g/s). This is just to demonstrate that the pump does not have consistent performance in the presence of any resistance. For calculations, we cannot rely on this flow rate, because the September/October tests may not entirely correlate. In the Mats Lewan report, the output of the primary side of the heat exchanger was measured at onyl .91 g/s and 1.9 g/s (when turned up for quenching). As the heat exchanger was probably receiving a water/steam mix, though, even these measurements may be unreliable. From: robert.leguil...@hotmail.com To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: RE: [Vo]:Rossi heat exchanger fitting / SOME flow data Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2011 13:02:37 -0500 The data from the September test is great, in this aspect. They did it right. They were filling the E-Cat from a reservoir, and after it was boiling, they gave us the net weight of water in the input reservoir at 21:07, then logged every time water was added, and provided us a final weight. Water flow inlet Added water during start up, from 18:30: 15640 + 9380 + 9473 + 9959 = 44452 grams. Remaining in the inlet reservoir when the temperature inside the E-cat reached 100°C at 21:07: 8431 grams. Consumed in 2:37 hours (2.62 hours): 36021 grams Flow during start-up: 13.76 kg/hour Added water from 21:07: 8431 + 10089 + 10460 + 6591 + 9960 = 45531 grams. Remaining in the inlet reservoir at 23:10: 22823 grams. Consumed in 2:03 hours (2.05 hours): 22708 grams Flow during boiling: 11.08 kg/hour. Total running time 100°C: 2:05 (2.08) hours Total flow 100 degrees (from 21:05): 23.0 kg IMPORTANT: In the September test, there is no reference to increasing flow at the end, they just turn the pump off. This begs the question if the September test had the pump running at full capacity. If so, the rate seen during Septembers operation of 11.08 kg/hr (3.1 g/sec) would be EVEN LOWER during the October test. We know for a fact that the October test, the pump was not running at full capacity, because they specifically stated that the increased the flow during quenching. Obviously, the pump does not put out consistent pressure, as seen in the September test. Was it slowed down for the October test? Was it harder to push through the heat exchanger, across the floor, under the doormat, then up into the drain, than the September test? If the placement of the thermocouples on the heat exchanger cause us to throw out that temperature data, and the E-Cat calorimetry is plagued with phase-change and unknown water flow, just where do we stand? Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2011 18:26:43 +0100 Subject: Re: [Vo]:Rossi heat exchanger fitting / SOME flow data From: robert.gulliver.l...@gmail.com To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Peristaltic pump NSF Model # CEP183-362N3 Serial # 060550065 Max output 12.0 liters/h Max press 1.50 bar So it was a maximum of 12 l/hr during cool-down, and if we take Lewan's numbers as a ratio -- 6 l/hr when stable. 12l/hr gives a maximum transfer rate of 8.8 kW -- close to the peak 7.6 kW recorded on the secondary. http://www.lmipumps.com/Files/lmi/Global/US-en/products/1713e.pdf If you know what the frequency is (the large thumping noise in all the videos about every second or so) then you can tell what the maximum flow rate is because the pump is only capable of deliverting 2ml per stroke.
Re: [Vo]:Rossi heat exchanger fitting / SOME flow data
And you don't know if the water level in the huge reactor reservoir is rising or falling. And you know that there are big problems with the secondary loop calorimetry not remotely matching the primary in the one instance (Mat's walk around video) where we know the primary power. Give up, Rossi has managed to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory yet again. On 11 October 2011 19:16, Robert Leguillon robert.leguil...@hotmail.comwrote: I forgot to mention. In the September test, before the pump was hooked up, they measure 15.8 kg/hr (4.38g/s) consumption. Once connected to the E-Cat, it dropped to 13.76 kg/hr (3.8g/s), then at boiling, it dropped to 11.08 kg/hr (3.07g/s). This is just to demonstrate that the pump does not have consistent performance in the presence of any resistance. For calculations, we cannot rely on this flow rate, because the September/October tests may not entirely correlate. In the Mats Lewan report, the output of the primary side of the heat exchanger was measured at onyl .91 g/s and 1.9 g/s (when turned up for quenching). As the heat exchanger was probably receiving a water/steam mix, though, even these measurements may be unreliable. -- From: robert.leguil...@hotmail.com To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: RE: [Vo]:Rossi heat exchanger fitting / SOME flow data Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2011 13:02:37 -0500 The data from the September test is great, in this aspect. They did it right. They were filling the E-Cat from a reservoir, and after it was boiling, they gave us the net weight of water in the input reservoir at 21:07, then logged every time water was added, and provided us a final weight. * Water flow inlet *Added water during start up, from 18:30: 15640 + 9380 + 9473 + 9959 = 44452 grams. Remaining in the inlet reservoir when the temperature inside the E-cat reached 100°C at 21:07: 8431 grams. Consumed in 2:37 hours (2.62 hours): 36021 grams Flow during start-up: 13.76 kg/hour Added water from 21:07: 8431 + 10089 + 10460 + 6591 + 9960 = 45531 grams. Remaining in the inlet reservoir at 23:10: 22823 grams. Consumed in 2:03 hours (2.05 hours): 22708 grams Flow during boiling: 11.08 kg/hour. Total running time 100°C: 2:05 (2.08) hours Total flow 100 degrees (from 21:05): 23.0 kg IMPORTANT: In the September test, there is no reference to increasing flow at the end, they just turn the pump off. This begs the question if the September test had the pump running at full capacity. If so, the rate seen during Septembers operation of 11.08 kg/hr (3.1 g/sec) would be EVEN LOWER during the October test. We know for a fact that the October test, the pump was not running at full capacity, because they specifically stated that the increased the flow during quenching. Obviously, the pump does not put out consistent pressure, as seen in the September test. Was it slowed down for the October test? Was it harder to push through the heat exchanger, across the floor, under the doormat, then up into the drain, than the September test? If the placement of the thermocouples on the heat exchanger cause us to throw out that temperature data, and the E-Cat calorimetry is plagued with phase-change and unknown water flow, just where do we stand? -- Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2011 18:26:43 +0100 Subject: Re: [Vo]:Rossi heat exchanger fitting / SOME flow data From: robert.gulliver.l...@gmail.com To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Peristaltic pump NSF Model # CEP183-362N3 Serial # 060550065 Max output 12.0 liters/h Max press 1.50 bar So it was a maximum of 12 l/hr during cool-down, and if we take Lewan's numbers as a ratio -- 6 l/hr when stable. 12l/hr gives a maximum transfer rate of 8.8 kW -- close to the peak 7.6 kW recorded on the secondary. http://www.lmipumps.com/Files/lmi/Global/US-en/products/1713e.pdf If you know what the frequency is (the large thumping noise in all the videos about every second or so) then you can tell what the maximum flow rate is because the pump is only capable of deliverting 2ml per stroke.
Re: [Vo]:Rossi heat exchanger fitting / SOME flow data
Alan J Fletcher wrote: Rossi wrote: 15kg/h here: http://www.journal-of-nuclear-physics.com/?p=510cpage=20#comment-94236 http://www.journal-of-nuclear-physics.com/?p=510cpage=20#comment-94236 That's 4.17 g/s -- Lewan recorded 0.9 (stable) and 1.9 (cool-down). This is why you need instruments recording flow rates to a computer. The confusion is permanent. As I said, we shall not get to the bottom of things like this. How annoying! I don't think we even know what pump was used (piston? peristaltic) -- it doesn't show in any of the videos. The pump was shown in some of the videos. It is the same old pump piston type pump he has been using all along. It was pumping water from a large garbage can on the floor into the reactor. Whatever the flow rate was 4.17 or 0.9 . . . It seems the primary loop flow rate was about the same throughout the test. People have done spotchecks of the sound of the pump. Assuming this flow rate was stable, it looks to me like it took maybe two hours to fill the reactor when the test began. So that means, an hour after the heat after death began, cold water equal to half the volume of the reservoir would have flowed into it. That is not to say that of volume of exactly half the original hot water would be driven out. The cold water mixes as it comes in. It works like a US domestic water heater, where tap water water flows in as hot water flows out. In this case it would be like a water heater with the power turned off. You cannot replace half the volume of a water tank without the temperature falling. The temperature only falls; it cannot rise. Bear in mind also that the reactor was not that well insulated and the surface of it remained at roughly 80°C the entire four hours. Obviously it was radiating a great deal of heat. If the primary loop flow rate was increased, the secondary loop would get warmer for a while, but the flow of incoming Water would increase and the reservoir would get colder faster. There is absolutely no way you could have boiling continue in a reservoir for four hours while tap water flows in and replaces at least twice the volume of that reservoir. - Jed
Re: [Vo]:Rossi heat exchanger fitting / SOME flow data
At 12:16 PM 10/10/2011, Alan J Fletcher wrote: At 11:20 AM 10/10/2011, Jed Rothwell wrote: I said you will never get to the bottom of this, and it is not worth trying. You're probably right on that. So we're left with a purely qualitative demonstration. Ah well. It's buried in Lewan's data -- but as he pointed out in his responses to Krivit, he DID measure the eCat output flow twice (presumably at the usual drain). 18:57 Measured outflow of primary circuit in heat exchanger, supposedly condensed steam, to be 328 g in 360 seconds, giving a flow of 0.91 g/s. Temperature 23.8 °C. 19:08 Hydrogen pressure was eliminated. Flow from peristaltic pump increased. All electric power switched off. 19:22 Tin = 24.2 °C Tout = 32.4 °C T3 = 25.8 °C T2 = 114.5 °C Measured outflow of primary circuit in heat exchanger, supposedly condensed steam, to be 345 g in 180 seconds, giving a flow of 1.92 g/s. Temperature 23.2 °C. http://a2.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/304196_10150844451570375_818270374_20774905_1010742682_n.jpg 18:57 0.91 g/sec correlates with a minimum of the power -- 3500 W 19:22 1.92 g/sec correlates to a peak of power -- nearly 6000 W
Re: [Vo]:Rossi heat exchanger fitting / SOME flow data
Alan J Fletcher wrote: I said you will never get to the bottom of this, and it is not worth trying. You're probably right on that. So we're left with a purely qualitative demonstration. Ah well. It's buried in Lewan's data -- but as he pointed out in his responses to Krivit, he DID measure the eCat output flow twice (presumably at the usual drain). Better than that, Lewan reports the cumulative flow, which is easier to read with confidence from this meter. He wrote: *Calibration water flow, secondary circuit:* Water flow was started about 11:00. Water was filled into a one liter measure, time was measured and the water weighed. 1035 g in 6.06 seconds gives 171 g/s. 1007 g in 5.97 seconds gives 169 g/s. Similar measurements during the test confirmed these values Using the flow meter attached to the heat exchanger the time for 10 liters was measured several times during the test and found to be between 58.1 and 54.4 seconds, giving a flow between 183 and 172 g/s. The total flow from 11:57 until 19:03 was 4554.3 liters, giving an average flow of 178 g/s or 641 liters/h. I am confident the flow rate was stable and it was at the reported rates. The inlet temperature is also firmly established, and it was stable. The only open question is the outlet temperature. Was it affected by the steam pipe, and if so how much? When I said you will never get to the bottom of this I meant you cannot answer those two questions with confidence. There is probably not enough information in the report to determine these things. - Jed
Re: [Vo]:Rossi heat exchanger fitting / SOME flow data
Alan J Fletcher a...@well.com wrote: It's buried in Lewan's data -- but as he pointed out in his responses to Krivit, he DID measure the eCat output flow twice (presumably at the usual drain). He read it at the drain and also, during the video, from the flowmeter. - Jed
RE: [Vo]:Rossi heat exchanger fitting / SOME flow data
Look closer at this one: http://www.mtaonline.net/~hheffner/RossiT2Pout.png Let me give you a scenario. There is some back pressure on the E-Cat, so boiling temperature rises as high as 124 degrees. Note: This is in the believer's favor. If atmospheric pressure is lower, then the boiling point is lower, and even less power is required for 124 degree steam (because the specific heat of steam is lower). In 6 hours of operation, 19.656 kg of water flows through the E-Cat. (.91 g/s x 60 sec/min x 60 min/hr x 6 hours) To raise all of the water from 24 degrees to 124 degrees, would take 1,965.6 kcal (19.656 kg x 100C) To vaporize all of the incoming water, 10,614.24 kcal (540 cal/g x 19.656 kg) This is 12,579.84 kcal over 6 hours, or 2,096,640 cal/hr, which is 2,436 Watts 2,436 Watts would completely vaporize the input water, and over that would deplete the water collected in the E-Cat. If we could actually rely on the E-Cat performance data, before this test was over, the E-Cat would have been bone-dry, and the steam should have been climbing to ever-higher temperatures. Please, anyone, tell me where this logic is flawed. Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2011 13:58:16 -0700 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com From: a...@well.com Subject: Re: [Vo]:Rossi heat exchanger fitting / SOME flow data At 12:16 PM 10/10/2011, Alan J Fletcher wrote: At 11:20 AM 10/10/2011, Jed Rothwell wrote: I said you will never get to the bottom of this, and it is not worth trying. You're probably right on that. So we're left with a purely qualitative demonstration. Ah well. It's buried in Lewan's data -- but as he pointed out in his responses to Krivit, he DID measure the eCat output flow twice (presumably at the usual drain). 18:57 Measured outflow of primary circuit in heat exchanger, supposedly condensed steam, to be 328 g in 360 seconds, giving a flow of 0.91 g/s. Temperature 23.8 °C. 19:08 Hydrogen pressure was eliminated. Flow from peristaltic pump increased. All electric power switched off. 19:22 Tin = 24.2 °C Tout = 32.4 °C T3 = 25.8 °C T2 = 114.5 °C Measured outflow of primary circuit in heat exchanger, supposedly condensed steam, to be 345 g in 180 seconds, giving a flow of 1.92 g/s. Temperature 23.2 °C. http://a2.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/304196_10150844451570375_818270374_20774905_1010742682_n.jpg 18:57 0.91 g/sec correlates with a minimum of the power -- 3500 W 19:22 1.92 g/sec correlates to a peak of power -- nearly 6000 W
Re: [Vo]:Rossi heat exchanger fitting / SOME flow data
At 02:09 PM 10/10/2011, Jed Rothwell wrote: Alan J Fletcher a...@well.com wrote: It's buried in Lewan's data -- but as he pointed out in his responses to Krivit, he DID measure the eCat output flow twice (presumably at the usual drain). He read it at the drain and also, during the video, from the flowmeter. The flowmeter and volume measurements are on the SECONDARY. The flow results for the secondary are fine .. as is its input temperature. He made TWO measurements on the PRIMARY flow ... one at the end of sustaining, and one after the hydrogen was purged and the peristaltic pump was increased. We DO have the click-rate of the primary pump recorded during Lewan's walk-through. Not time-stamped, but he says about 1 hour ago we went into self-sustaining mode.
RE: [Vo]:Rossi heat exchanger fitting / SOME flow data
At 02:15 PM 10/10/2011, Robert Leguillon wrote: Look closer at this one: http://www.mtaonline.net/~hheffner/RossiT2Pout.png Let me give you a scenario. There is some back pressure on the E-Cat, so boiling temperature rises as high as 124 degrees. Note: This is in the believer's favor. If atmospheric pressure is lower, then the boiling point is lower, and even less power is required for 124 degree steam (because the specific heat of steam is lower). In 6 hours of operation, 19.656 kg of water flows through the E-Cat. (.91 g/s x 60 sec/min x 60 min/hr x 6 hours) To raise all of the water from 24 degrees to 124 degrees, would take 1,965.6 kcal (19.656 kg x 100C) To vaporize all of the incoming water, 10,614.24 kcal (540 cal/g x 19.656 kg) This is 12,579.84 kcal over 6 hours, or 2,096,640 cal/hr, which is 2,436 Watts 2,436 Watts would completely vaporize the input water, and over that would deplete the water collected in the E-Cat. If we could actually rely on the E-Cat performance data, before this test was over, the E-Cat would have been bone-dry, and the steam should have been climbing to ever-higher temperatures. Please, anyone, tell me where this logic is flawed. I've set this calculation up for 1 hour : http://lenr.qumbu.com/ecatcalc.php?plot=Plotever=cefzx0=0efzy0=0efzx9=9efzy9=9esl=1epbr=1enm=Oct+6++--+Input+Power+onlyedh=1edm=0eds=0eif=3.27eip=2.5ecp=0.06eop=2.5eoxr=1et0=20ep0=1et1=15ep2=1er2=2 For the input-power-only phase, 1 bar, with 0.9 g/sec and 2.5kW -- should get 170 C superheated steam ! (Doesn't make much difference if it's 1 bar or 2) If you double the flow, at 2 bars then you get quality 0.5 120 C steam from input power only. http://lenr.qumbu.com/ecatcalc.php?plot=Plotever=cefzx0=0efzy0=0efzx9=9efzy9=9esl=1epbr=1enm=Oct+6++--+Input+Power+onlyedh=1edm=0eds=0eif=6.5eip=2.5ecp=0.06eop=2.5eoxr=1et0=20ep0=1et1=15et2=120er2=1
Re: [Vo]:Rossi heat exchanger fitting / SOME flow data
Alan J Fletcher wrote: The flowmeter and volume measurements are on the SECONDARY. The flow results for the secondary are fine .. as is its input temperature. He made TWO measurements on the PRIMARY flow ... one at the end of sustaining, and one after the hydrogen was purged and the peristaltic pump was increased. Oh yes. You are right. I was confused. Of course the secondary flow is the important one in this case. Although it sure would have been nice to know the primary one. Do you know what would have been nice? If he has recorded all the damn flow rates and temperatures electronically on a single computer, with uniform time stamps. You know what I mean? The way anyone else would have after 1980 for crying out loud. - Jed
RE: [Vo]:Rossi heat exchanger fitting / SOME flow data
The double flow was recorded after they began trying to quench the reaction. Increasing the flow rate was specifically mentioned before that second measurement, and everyone previously lauded the pump for it's accuracy during previous demonstrations. Alan J Fletcher a...@well.com wrote:
Re: [Vo]:Rossi heat exchanger fitting / SOME flow data
During Mat's walk through video I make it about 40+/-1 Hz, with same LMI P18 pump with 2ml max stroke (and back pressure of at least 1.3bar if making 124°C steam, pump is limited to 1.5bar) http://www.lmi-pumps.com/datasheets/Pseries-08-01.pdf, that would suggest at maximum 1.3g/s and probably less given close to maximum pressure. http://www.nyteknik.se/nyheter/energi_miljo/energi/article3284823.ece If so then the heat developed during walkthrough is not more than 3.6kw (1.3g/s 24°C water to 124°C steam) but might be less than 2.45kW (0.91g/s 24°C water to 124°C steam), unless the water level in the reactor was dropping. At same point in the walk through Mat shows delta T on secondary of 6.5°C and says that it is flowing 600l/hr (167g/s), that would give a power output of 4.5kW. So the secondary is putting out more heat than the primary could be delivering. This shows that the calorimetry is almost certainly overestimating output by at least 20% (prime candidates are bad outlet thermocouple positon, poor calibration of thermocouples), though it could be a lot more. On 10 October 2011 22:24, Alan J Fletcher a...@well.com wrote: At 02:09 PM 10/10/2011, Jed Rothwell wrote: Alan J Fletcher a...@well.com wrote: It's buried in Lewan's data -- but as he pointed out in his responses to Krivit, he DID measure the eCat output flow twice (presumably at the usual drain). He read it at the drain and also, during the video, from the flowmeter. The flowmeter and volume measurements are on the SECONDARY. The flow results for the secondary are fine .. as is its input temperature. He made TWO measurements on the PRIMARY flow ... one at the end of sustaining, and one after the hydrogen was purged and the peristaltic pump was increased. We DO have the click-rate of the primary pump recorded during Lewan's walk-through. Not time-stamped, but he says about 1 hour ago we went into self-sustaining mode.
Re: [Vo]:Rossi heat exchanger fitting / SOME flow data
Let's now take this to its logical conclusion. At a primary flow rate of .91 g/s, the evidence makes it look as though the average power (including the power applied by the band heater) over the entire span, could not have been over 2.5 kW. Anything higher would have resulted in higher E-Cat temps than its 124C peak. So, 2.436 kW is our ceiling - maybe a little higher if you assume some loss through the thermal blankets. It begs the question, What's the floor?: Only 380.75 watts are required to raise the incoming water at 24C to 124C. We know some water was boiling, due to the sound, feel and relative temperature stability. But, as with every demonstration, we cannot determine how much. This leaves us wondering whether the average power was closer to 380 watts or 2.5 kw. Robert Lynn robert.gulliver.l...@gmail.com wrote: During Mat's walk through video I make it about 40+/-1 Hz, with same LMI P18 pump with 2ml max stroke (and back pressure of at least 1.3bar if making 124°C steam, pump is limited to 1.5bar) http://www.lmi-pumps.com/datasheets/Pseries-08-01.pdf, that would suggest at maximum 1.3g/s and probably less given close to maximum pressure. http://www.nyteknik.se/nyheter/energi_miljo/energi/article3284823.ece If so then the heat developed during walkthrough is not more than 3.6kw (1.3g/s 24°C water to 124°C steam) but might be less than 2.45kW (0.91g/s 24°C water to 124°C steam), unless the water level in the reactor was dropping. At same point in the walk through Mat shows delta T on secondary of 6.5°C and says that it is flowing 600l/hr (167g/s), that would give a power output of 4.5kW. So the secondary is putting out more heat than the primary could be delivering. This shows that the calorimetry is almost certainly overestimating output by at least 20% (prime candidates are bad outlet thermocouple positon, poor calibration of thermocouples), though it could be a lot more. On 10 October 2011 22:24, Alan J Fletcher a...@well.com wrote: At 02:09 PM 10/10/2011, Jed Rothwell wrote: Alan J Fletcher a...@well.com wrote: It's buried in Lewan's data -- but as he pointed out in his responses to Krivit, he DID measure the eCat output flow twice (presumably at the usual drain). He read it at the drain and also, during the video, from the flowmeter. The flowmeter and volume measurements are on the SECONDARY. The flow results for the secondary are fine .. as is its input temperature. He made TWO measurements on the PRIMARY flow ... one at the end of sustaining, and one after the hydrogen was purged and the peristaltic pump was increased. We DO have the click-rate of the primary pump recorded during Lewan's walk-through. Not time-stamped, but he says about 1 hour ago we went into self-sustaining mode.
Re: [Vo]:Rossi heat exchanger fitting / SOME flow data
The Italian rcde.it video shows that the primary loop water came out of a large plastic garbage can parked next to the pump. It is a shame they did not weigh the garbage can before and after. That would have given the total amount pumped through. It may not all have been vaporized . . . That video may allow you to count the strokes of the pump. It is 14:38 long. - Jed
Re: [Vo]:Rossi heat exchanger fitting / SOME flow data
Robert Leguillon robert.leguil...@hotmail.com wrote: Let's now take this to its logical conclusion. At a primary flow rate of .91 g/s, the evidence makes it look as though the average power (including the power applied by the band heater) over the entire span, could not have been over 2.5 kW. Anything higher would have resulted in higher E-Cat temps than its 124C . . . Lewan already said this in his report. It is not clear that was the max flow rate, or that it did not change. The secondary loop flow rate did not change. - Jed
