RE: [Vo]:Celani to announce a possible marker of anomalous heat production in LENR
Agreed! I think the Celani report will result in more consistent and numerous replications by providing a simple feedback mechanism to help researchers reproduce the necessary environment. Fran -Original Message- From: Mark Iverson-ZeroPoint [mailto:zeropo...@charter.net] Sent: Friday, January 06, 2012 1:59 AM To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: EXTERNAL: RE: [Vo]:Celani to announce a possible marker of anomalous heat production in LENR Hi Jones! You've been a bit too scarce the last 6 months... but I have a feeling it's for a good reason! ;-) I remember that discussion, and in it you wrote: If Rossi knows this, he is pulling a clever deception. If not, if means that what everyone already suspects is true: the guy just got extremely lucky, essentially by using copper plumbing in a situation where almost no one would think of using copper because of known problem of easy contamination. -Jones So the reason Rossi was using ugly, cheap copper pipe in his reactors, which some here criticized as being too hoaky/amateurish, perhaps was done because when Rossi used stainless or iron, it didn't work!? I guess it's possible that he still doesn't realize it, but won't that be a kicker! This just gets better and better every day... -Mark -Original Message- From: Jones Beene [mailto:jone...@pacbell.net] Sent: Thursday, January 05, 2012 7:32 PM To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: RE: [Vo]:Celani to announce a possible marker of anomalous heat production in LENR Yes, we were talking about this same group of Cu-Ni alloys (Romanowski alloys) back in April. Ahern used it in his successful Arata replication, saw excess heat and informed Celani afterwards of that. That is the short history of how Celani found out about this alloy. http://www.mail-archive.com/vortex-l@eskimo.com/msg44320.html
RE: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Testing at University of Bologna - The Deadline Looms
Axil, I have had same suspicion due to her arrival relative to timeline. Fran From: Axil Axil [mailto:janap...@gmail.com] Sent: Thursday, January 05, 2012 4:22 PM To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Testing at University of Bologna - The Deadline Looms Mary, you do not have the current Rossi inter-personal and political dynamics down correctly or even worse maybe you do. As I see things, Rossi never wanted to reveal the details of his work, but Levi through an appeal to friendship forced Rossi to be more open to revealing information. His need to attract customers also forced some minimal level of revelation. But Rossi always wanted to keep this info flow to a minimum. E-Cat evaluation at the University of Bologna was Levi's idea because as an academic, Levi's status in academia requires a degree of verification, openness, publication, and information flow to peers. Now that Rossi is partnered with the US military, The UofP research effort is not needed. Rossi will get all the RD he would ever want or need from the DOD and it will be kept secret with no possible information leakage. This is the best of all worlds for Rossi. Along with this RD effort, the DOD will mount an intelligence campaign of duplicity and disinformation to hide their interest in LENR development work much in the same way that the UFO disinformation campaign was used to covertly hide Stealth aircraft development at Area 51 from the Soviet Union. Consistent with this scenario as informed by their past actions, I believe it is highly probable that the DOD will assign field and/or senior level intelligence officers to spread disinformation on various information outlets including web sites that deal with LENR to cover their real defense related efforts on the E-Cat. With Vortex as the premier LENR web information site, this is why I think you are actually an air force major with the appropriate background assigned here to hound this web site, to spread disinformation about the E-Cat, and to cover Rossi's work for the DOD. In the same way you demand of Rossi, to establish your good faith bona fide please provide unsalable and definitive proof to the Vortex community that you are not some DOD shill assigned by the DOD to put the Vortex community off the scent, discourage the development and promulgation of the real story of the E-Cat, Rossi and Defkalion, together with ridiculing and undermining possible replication of the E-Cat. On Thu, Jan 5, 2012 at 3:00 PM, Mary Yugo maryyu...@gmail.commailto:maryyu...@gmail.com wrote: On Thu, Jan 5, 2012 at 10:55 AM, Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.commailto:jedrothw...@gmail.com wrote: Mary Yugo maryyu...@gmail.commailto:maryyu...@gmail.com wrote: Meanwhile, Defkalion promises independent testing. When? Oh... soon! They do not promise it. They hope to have it. They are a privately held business. They do not owe the public anything. They do not need to make any promises or commitments to the public, but only to customers, stockholders and regulators. The same is true of Rossi. You seem to have difficulty understanding this concept. What concept is that, exactly? That someone can continue to make huge claims, present no or insufficient evidence for an entire year and then expect some sort of credibility or respect? Is that your thesis? Rossi and Defkalion would owe nothing to anybody if they had kept their mouths shut, except to their investors, about their claims. Once someone makes claims which have huge public impact, you bet they owe something. They owe proof.
Re: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Testing at University of Bologna - The Deadline Looms
On Fri, Jan 6, 2012 at 9:04 AM, Roarty, Francis X francis.x.roa...@lmco.com wrote: Axil, I have had same suspicion due to her arrival relative to timeline. She's been skepticizing for several years now. I first saw her on the Steorn forum. I told her how to join Vortex; so, I guess I have to share some of the guilt for her postings. T
Re: [Vo]:Testing at University of Bologna - The Deadline Looms
T, Ok - fair enough explanation for her ETA, I don't really have issue with her skepticism relative to Rossi - there is plenty of reason for that. I am waiting instead on an impact from these recent reports of transmuted elements and reports of inverted temp coefficients of Ni - Cu alloys. I think these discoveries will finally allow theory to catch up with claims. If the negative TC can be used as feedback then this anomaly will soon be understood. I saw Jones thread last spring regarding Romanowski alloys but missed the significance - I see it now. Fran -Original Message- From: Terry Blanton [mailto:hohlr...@gmail.com] Sent: Friday, January 06, 2012 9:18 AM To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Testing at University of Bologna - The Deadline Looms On Fri, Jan 6, 2012 at 9:04 AM, Roarty, Francis X francis.x.roa...@lmco.com wrote: Axil, I have had same suspicion due to her arrival relative to timeline. She's been skepticizing for several years now. I first saw her on the Steorn forum. I told her how to join Vortex; so, I guess I have to share some of the guilt for her postings. T
RE: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Testing at University of Bologna - The Deadline Looms
I have to say, take a look at: http://www.moletrap.co.uk/forum/comments.php?DiscussionID=483page=1#Item_0 The username maryyugo was banned from Steorn before December 2009. Sorry, but she's been around the block a few times; Quite loudly. Date: Fri, 6 Jan 2012 09:18:28 -0500 Subject: Re: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Testing at University of Bologna - The Deadline Looms From: hohlr...@gmail.com To: vortex-l@eskimo.com On Fri, Jan 6, 2012 at 9:04 AM, Roarty, Francis X francis.x.roa...@lmco.com wrote: Axil, I have had same suspicion due to her arrival relative to timeline. She's been skepticizing for several years now. I first saw her on the Steorn forum. I told her how to join Vortex; so, I guess I have to share some of the guilt for her postings. T
Re: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Testing at University of Bologna - The Deadline Looms
On Fri, Jan 6, 2012 at 10:06 AM, Robert Leguillon robert.leguil...@hotmail.com wrote: I have to say, take a look at: http://www.moletrap.co.uk/forum/comments.php?DiscussionID=483page=1#Item_0 The username maryyugo was banned from Steorn before December 2009. Sorry, but she's been around the block a few times; Quite loudly. Sorry? For what? I invited MY for the pure entertainment value. When I was young, I enjoyed stirring ants' nests also. (I mostly enjoyed those ants who only occasionally exited their holes only to encounter immediate immolation from my grandfather's reading glass focusing the sun. I have since found the Buddha's teachings and no longer engage in such.) T
RE: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Testing at University of Bologna - The Deadline Looms
I was just showing that, after a short Google search, it is quite evident that the maryyugo persona is not, and I quote: DOD shill assigned by the DOD to put the Vortex community off the scent, discourage the development and promulgation of the real story of the E-Cat, Rossi and Defkalion, together with ridiculing and undermining possible replication of the E-Cat It may seem self-evident to most that the assertion is silly, but, you never really know what people will believe. My statement that, Sorry, but she's been around the block a few times.. was merely to state that maryyugo's presence is not evidence of a DOD coverup, no matter how much some people may want there to be one. Date: Fri, 6 Jan 2012 10:30:17 -0500 Subject: Re: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Testing at University of Bologna - The Deadline Looms From: hohlr...@gmail.com To: vortex-l@eskimo.com On Fri, Jan 6, 2012 at 10:06 AM, Robert Leguillon robert.leguil...@hotmail.com wrote: I have to say, take a look at: http://www.moletrap.co.uk/forum/comments.php?DiscussionID=483page=1#Item_0 The username maryyugo was banned from Steorn before December 2009. Sorry, but she's been around the block a few times; Quite loudly. Sorry? For what? I invited MY for the pure entertainment value. When I was young, I enjoyed stirring ants' nests also. (I mostly enjoyed those ants who only occasionally exited their holes only to encounter immediate immolation from my grandfather's reading glass focusing the sun. I have since found the Buddha's teachings and no longer engage in such.) T
[Vo]:Hank Mills Weighs in on Defkalion?
Someone claiming to be Hank Mills chimed in on Rossi's JoNP webpage with: __ Hank Mills January 5th, 2012 at 11:48 PM Hello Everyone, I have recently become aware of the fact a certain other company (that everyone here should be aware of) is claiming to have a robust Ni-H system, without the use of catalysts. In my opinion, it should be pointed out that Andrea Rossi has already stated that without the use of catalysts, Ni-H systems do not produce a practical quantity of output. Instead, their output is extremely limited by orders of magnitude, compared to systems using catalysts. Since he is the only individual in the world to have demonstrated robust and powerful Ni-H systems, I think we need to remember what he has said on this topic. I think we should be skeptical of the claims of any company that claims to have robust Ni-H systems, but do not utilize catalysts. When the claims come from a company that has never performed a single demonstration, I think we need to be even more skeptical. Sincerely, Hank Mills __ My summary which may-or-may-not reflect the actual intent: He appears to be stating that, though the reaction will occur sans canalyst, Defkalion's claims to have achieved Rossi-like power levels without a catalyst are unlikely and probably hogwash.
[Vo]:On Widow Larsen theory, need vulgarization, and critic
Hi, I'm looking at W/L theory. To be honest, the first comments I've read make me think about crackpot language, but it seems to be simple jargon. I resume my opinion, asking for better explanation and eventual critics. note that I have basic level in QP (and classic physic) because of basic university education in the old time and long curiosity through magazine. W/L theory start with the presence of an heavy electron, (will discuss it's creation, the most mysterious) this heavy, thus slow, thus large electron (thanks Heisenberg inequality) interact with proton, to make a neutron (and a neutrino)... then the neutron, which is slow, thus large, interact with nucleus, and trigger a chain of classic disintegration (beta, alpha). the only surprise seems to be the lack of hard gamma, that you could expect, but the heavy/large electrons might interact with the gamma... for the creation of heavy electrons, it seems it is the effective mass that is refered like here: http://www.bnl.gov/bnlweb/pubaf/pr/PR_display.asp?prID=1130 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heavy_electron thus the mass is simply caused by all the lattice/wave around, slowing the electrons when it tries to move... quite classic if you practice semiconductors physic (no link to relativistic mass?) W/L theory says they are heavy because interacting with SPP : surface plasmon polariton : see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plasmon http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polariton http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Surface_plasmon_polaritons note that in French the equivalents article are more rich, IMO. they talk clearly of the quantum states of those pseudo particle like oscillators coupling, with stable modes who are eigenvalue, thus states of particle. SPP, plasmon and polariton are thus simply quantum state of collective behavior of electrons at a surface, and photons... quite classic if you understands phonon ans evanescent waves ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evanescent_waves) the cause of the heavy electrons seems cause by huge electric fields, but from where ? from SPP ? from group behavior of electrons ? from electrons Bose-Einstein condensate ? from heat ? from heat, creating SPP, creating collective Bose-Einstein condensate, creating collective behavior? some talk about resonance, what is it concretely in QP? a kind of constructive interference ? some talk also about the breaking of the Born-Oppenheimer approximation, which is well explained in Wikipedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Born-Oppenheimer_approximation (once again the French version is simpler to understand) this approximation is based on the assumption that the mass of the nucleus is so huge that you can neglect the move of the nucleus, because of the electron. so you compute first the energy states of the electrons, depending on nucleus distance. then you compute the energy state of the nucleus pair, using the potential energy of electrons computed earlier. so W/L theory says that in some case, you cannot neglect the move of the nucleus (proton here) because of the electrons. I need some explanation about that... also there is some mystery that I understand even less. when the electron react with proton, it seems that the reaction is endothermic. where does the energy came from ? from SPP ? from collective behavior ? from electric field? after that, what is the exact explanation why gamma should be absorbed by the heavy electrons ? or is simply the gamma suppressed because of some quantum branching preference ? thanks in advance for clarification... don't forget also to raise the key problems, and vulgarize them .
Re: [Vo]:Hank Mills Weighs in on Defkalion?
That's really Hank Mills. He always posts there. 2012/1/6 Robert Leguillon robert.leguil...@hotmail.com Someone claiming to be Hank Mills chimed in on Rossi's JoNP webpage with: __ *Hank Mills* http://www.peswiki.com/ January 5th, 2012 at 11:48 PMhttp://www.journal-of-nuclear-physics.com/?p=563cpage=10#comment-164611 Hello Everyone, I have recently become aware of the fact a certain other company (that everyone here should be aware of) is claiming to have a robust Ni-H system, without the use of catalysts. In my opinion, it should be pointed out that Andrea Rossi has already stated that without the use of catalysts, Ni-H systems do not produce a practical quantity of output. Instead, their output is extremely limited by orders of magnitude, compared to systems using catalysts. Since he is the only individual in the world to have demonstrated robust and powerful Ni-H systems, I think we need to remember what he has said on this topic. I think we should be skeptical of the claims of any company that claims to have robust Ni-H systems, but do not utilize catalysts. When the claims come from a company that has never performed a single demonstration, I think we need to be even more skeptical. Sincerely, Hank Mills __ My summary which may-or-may-not reflect the actual intent: He appears to be stating that, though the reaction will occur *sans canalyst*, Defkalion's claims to have achieved Rossi-like power levels without a catalyst are unlikely and probably hogwash. -- Daniel Rocha - RJ danieldi...@gmail.com
Re: [Vo]:On Widow Larsen theory, need vulgarization, and critic
That heavy mass electron in WL refers to its self-energy: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-energy Not to the mass in relation to the conduction band: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Effective_mass_(solid-state_physics) 2012/1/6 Alain Sepeda alain.sep...@gmail.com Hi, I'm looking at W/L theory. To be honest, the first comments I've read make me think about crackpot language, but it seems to be simple jargon. I resume my opinion, asking for better explanation and eventual critics. note that I have basic level in QP (and classic physic) because of basic university education in the old time and long curiosity through magazine. W/L theory start with the presence of an heavy electron, (will discuss it's creation, the most mysterious) this heavy, thus slow, thus large electron (thanks Heisenberg inequality) interact with proton, to make a neutron (and a neutrino)... then the neutron, which is slow, thus large, interact with nucleus, and trigger a chain of classic disintegration (beta, alpha). the only surprise seems to be the lack of hard gamma, that you could expect, but the heavy/large electrons might interact with the gamma... for the creation of heavy electrons, it seems it is the effective mass that is refered like here: http://www.bnl.gov/bnlweb/pubaf/pr/PR_display.asp?prID=1130 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heavy_electron thus the mass is simply caused by all the lattice/wave around, slowing the electrons when it tries to move... quite classic if you practice semiconductors physic (no link to relativistic mass?) W/L theory says they are heavy because interacting with SPP : surface plasmon polariton : see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plasmon http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polariton http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Surface_plasmon_polaritons note that in French the equivalents article are more rich, IMO. they talk clearly of the quantum states of those pseudo particle like oscillators coupling, with stable modes who are eigenvalue, thus states of particle. SPP, plasmon and polariton are thus simply quantum state of collective behavior of electrons at a surface, and photons... quite classic if you understands phonon ans evanescent waves ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evanescent_waves) the cause of the heavy electrons seems cause by huge electric fields, but from where ? from SPP ? from group behavior of electrons ? from electrons Bose-Einstein condensate ? from heat ? from heat, creating SPP, creating collective Bose-Einstein condensate, creating collective behavior? some talk about resonance, what is it concretely in QP? a kind of constructive interference ? some talk also about the breaking of the Born-Oppenheimer approximation, which is well explained in Wikipedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Born-Oppenheimer_approximation (once again the French version is simpler to understand) this approximation is based on the assumption that the mass of the nucleus is so huge that you can neglect the move of the nucleus, because of the electron. so you compute first the energy states of the electrons, depending on nucleus distance. then you compute the energy state of the nucleus pair, using the potential energy of electrons computed earlier. so W/L theory says that in some case, you cannot neglect the move of the nucleus (proton here) because of the electrons. I need some explanation about that... also there is some mystery that I understand even less. when the electron react with proton, it seems that the reaction is endothermic. where does the energy came from ? from SPP ? from collective behavior ? from electric field? after that, what is the exact explanation why gamma should be absorbed by the heavy electrons ? or is simply the gamma suppressed because of some quantum branching preference ? thanks in advance for clarification... don't forget also to raise the key problems, and vulgarize them . -- Daniel Rocha - RJ danieldi...@gmail.com
Re: [Vo]:Hank Mills Weighs in on Defkalion?
On Fri, Jan 6, 2012 at 7:57 AM, Daniel Rocha danieldi...@gmail.com wrote: That's really Hank Mills. He always posts there. Hank Mills writes favorably and enthusiastically about every impossible, incompetent or fraudulent free energy claim he can get his hands on and the web site on which he writes publicized a recent claim that Obama went to Mars. If you have not had your usual dose of bullpuckey for the week, you can learn about fuelless motors and gravity chain engines right here at http://peswiki.com/index.php/Main_Page .
[Vo]:Is the Rossi Reactor a Langmuir Torch
fueled by ZPE? It would seem that the numbers are right and absolutely no nuclear reactions nor transmutations are occurring. The energy of association of nascent hydrogen is 4.476 eV per H2 atom. The dissociation energy of one mole of H2 is 4.476 x 6.02 x 10^23 = 2.7 x 10^24 eV. At 22.47 MeV per kWh, we're talking about 1.2 x 10^18 MeV or 5.35 x 10^16 kWh of energy in a gram of nascent hydrogen. (someone check my math please) So how exactly does the surface of a metal dissociate molecular hydrogen? Where does the 4.476 eV come from? If only some of the energy comes from the zero point field then the Rossi reactor could be powered by the oscillation of hydrogen between the atomic and molecular states. Or not. T
Re: [Vo]:Hank Mills Weighs in on Defkalion?
Everyone know it was Ron Paul that went to Mars, damn it! 2012/1/6 Mary Yugo maryyu...@gmail.com On Fri, Jan 6, 2012 at 7:57 AM, Daniel Rocha danieldi...@gmail.comwrote: That's really Hank Mills. He always posts there. Hank Mills writes favorably and enthusiastically about every impossible, incompetent or fraudulent free energy claim he can get his hands on and the web site on which he writes publicized a recent claim that Obama went to Mars. If you have not had your usual dose of bullpuckey for the week, you can learn about fuelless motors and gravity chain engines right here at http://peswiki.com/index.php/Main_Page . -- Daniel Rocha - RJ danieldi...@gmail.com
Re: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Testing at University of Bologna - The Deadline Looms
On Fri, Jan 6, 2012 at 10:42 AM, Robert Leguillon robert.leguil...@hotmail.com wrote: My statement that, Sorry, but she's been around the block a few times.. was merely to state that maryyugo's presence is not evidence of a DOD coverup, no matter how much some people may want there to be one. Ah, you were really talking to Francis. I know she's no G-shill. Got it. Thanks! T
Re: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Testing at University of Bologna - The Deadline Looms
BTW, MY should be awake and online soon. It will be interesting to see what she has to say. T
Re: [Vo]:Is the Rossi Reactor a Langmuir Torch
BTW, this has been discussed before, I just wanted to put the numbers on it. T
RE: [Vo]:Hank Mills Weighs in on Defkalion?
Apparently - in claiming that no one else has shown robust and powerful Ni-H systems this Mills (not Randell) is unaware of what Thermacore was doing in the early nineties, ahead of Piantelli (and 50 times more robust). Unlike Rossi - the RD results in the paper below was verified independently. http://lenr-canr.org/acrobat/GernertNnascenthyd.pdf Yes, Thermacore used potassium, which is a (Randell) Mills' catalyst, but their system is robust - it is easy to show that they were getting more energy out of Ni-Hi (gas phase) in 1994 - per unit of nickel surface area, than Rossi gets today ! (about double). In effect - the Rossi story is NOT about Ni-H, but is really about the power of nano. The white-paper below presents the case for nano quite well in another arena. http://www.qsinano.com/white_papers/QSI_DSE_Hydrogen_PPT_March_07.pdf Thermacore used nickel capillary tubing, which has a decent surface area - but nothing compared to what Rossi calls nano-metric. The ratio increase in surface, over tubing, is about 100,000:1 if memory serves. From: Robert Leguillon __ Hank Mills http://www.peswiki.com/ January 5th, 2012 at 11:48 PM http://www.journal-of-nuclear-physics.com/?p=563cpage=10 Hello Everyone, I have recently become aware of the fact a certain other company (that everyone here should be aware of) is claiming to have a robust Ni-H system, without the use of catalysts. In my opinion, it should be pointed out that Andrea Rossi has already stated that without the use of catalysts, Ni-H systems do not produce a practical quantity of output. Instead, their output is extremely limited by orders of magnitude, compared to systems using catalysts. Since he is the only individual in the world to have demonstrated robust and powerful Ni-H systems, I think we need to remember what he has said on this topic. I think we should be skeptical of the claims of any company that claims to have robust Ni-H systems, but do not utilize catalysts. When the claims come from a company that has never performed a single demonstration, I think we need to be even more skeptical. Sincerely, Hank Mills _ attachment: winmail.dat
Re: [Vo]:Ultimate toy: Neocube
I've heard better reviews on the buckballs - basically same thing. Actually ordered several sets for nephews this year at christmas. http://www.thinkgeek.com/geektoys/science/bbe8/?srp=2 On 1/5/2012 7:26 PM, Terry Blanton wrote: On Thu, Jan 5, 2012 at 7:07 PM, David Jonsson davidjonssonswe...@gmail.com wrote: Very interesting, but I ended up ordering only 864 spheres. It seems like a perfect gift. But I can't understand how the magnetic field aligns. Some combinations must be impossible? Indeed, they are axially aligned, kinda like the Earth. T
Re: [Vo]:Testing at University of Bologna - The Deadline Looms
One of the more extravagant and incredible (on any basis) claims made by Rossi on his blog is that he is tooling up to manufacture a million E-cats during calendar year 2012. Comments on the moletrap forum noted that: A million ECats. National Instruments stock must be going up, then. I'd like to know who is supplying his valves and other stuff like that there. An order for a million of anything will make a major contribution to the bottom line of most any company. Unless it's anchovies. One million of the 5kW e-cats is only $5 billion dollars of sales. Assuming a 75% GPM, he only has to come up with $1.25 billion in capital to finance that. Maybe he got more for his house than I thought. Oh, but of course, that's what he needs investors for: production capital. Maybe I lack imagination, but I am having trouble imagining anyone anywhere manufacturing one million of anything without significant and highly visible infrastructure. Who is going to do all this and where? If it is five guys in a garage in Bologna, they had better get cracking. They need to build 2 ecats every minute around the clock to meet their goal. That could seriously cut in on blogging time. Someone compared the construction of an E-cat or Hyperion to that of a Toyota automobile and examined the statistics associated with that sort of endeavor: In 2002, Toyota began scouting locations in Alabama, Arkansas, Mississippi, Tennessee and Texas for a new assembly plant to build the second generation Tundra pickup.[1] After long deliberations including the offer of $227 million in subsidies, a 2,000-acre (8.1 km2) site in San Antonio was selected as the location for the new 2,000,000-square-foot (190,000 m2) assembly plant.[2][3] Toyota broke ground at the new plant site on 17 October 2003.[4] During construction, the project evolved from a simple assembly plant into an automotive production site including several on-site suppliers which shipped directly to the factory. In addition, Toyota announced that production capacity, originally planned for 150,000 units per year, would be expanded to 200,000 units. This increase brought Toyota's investment in the plant to $1.2 Billion. Following four years of construction, the first new Tundra pickups rolled off the line in November 2006 during a grand-openeing celebration which drew executives, employees and dealers of Toyota from around the country. http://www.moletrap.co.uk/forum/comments.php?DiscussionID=2212page=693#Item_6 I am amazed that anyone takes Rossi's claim seriously that he will produce a million units and sell them for under $1500 in 2012.
Re: [Vo]:Testing at University of Bologna - The Deadline Looms
He didn't give a date for 1 million e-cats :) He just says he is working towards that! 2012/1/6 Mary Yugo maryyu...@gmail.com One of the more extravagant and incredible (on any basis) claims made by Rossi on his blog is that he is tooling up to manufacture a million E-cats during calendar year 2012. Comments on the moletrap forum noted that: A million ECats. National Instruments stock must be going up, then. I'd like to know who is supplying his valves and other stuff like that there. An order for a million of anything will make a major contribution to the bottom line of most any company. Unless it's anchovies. One million of the 5kW e-cats is only $5 billion dollars of sales. Assuming a 75% GPM, he only has to come up with $1.25 billion in capital to finance that. Maybe he got more for his house than I thought. Oh, but of course, that's what he needs investors for: production capital. Maybe I lack imagination, but I am having trouble imagining anyone anywhere manufacturing one million of anything without significant and highly visible infrastructure. Who is going to do all this and where? If it is five guys in a garage in Bologna, they had better get cracking. They need to build 2 ecats every minute around the clock to meet their goal. That could seriously cut in on blogging time. Someone compared the construction of an E-cat or Hyperion to that of a Toyota automobile and examined the statistics associated with that sort of endeavor: In 2002, Toyota began scouting locations in Alabama, Arkansas, Mississippi, Tennessee and Texas for a new assembly plant to build the second generation Tundra pickup.[1] After long deliberations including the offer of $227 million in subsidies, a 2,000-acre (8.1 km2) site in San Antonio was selected as the location for the new 2,000,000-square-foot (190,000 m2) assembly plant.[2][3] Toyota broke ground at the new plant site on 17 October 2003.[4] During construction, the project evolved from a simple assembly plant into an automotive production site including several on-site suppliers which shipped directly to the factory. In addition, Toyota announced that production capacity, originally planned for 150,000 units per year, would be expanded to 200,000 units. This increase brought Toyota's investment in the plant to $1.2 Billion. Following four years of construction, the first new Tundra pickups rolled off the line in November 2006 during a grand-openeing celebration which drew executives, employees and dealers of Toyota from around the country. http://www.moletrap.co.uk/forum/comments.php?DiscussionID=2212page=693#Item_6 I am amazed that anyone takes Rossi's claim seriously that he will produce a million units and sell them for under $1500 in 2012. -- Daniel Rocha - RJ danieldi...@gmail.com
Re: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Testing at University of Bologna - The Deadline Looms
Terry sez: BTW, MY should be awake and online soon. It will be interesting to see what she has to say. My only contact with MY these days is through indirect exposure. There has been a lot of that lately. Robert's Google search was informative. It ought to put to rest imaginative scenarios concerning the MY persona. My own impression of MY's posting activity is one that I suspect most here have already come to: she is in it primarily for the unique kind of exposure and notoriety it gives her out on the Internet. It's just one of the activities some of us do to prove to ourselves that we actually amount to something in a universe we unconsciously fear would just assume ignore our existence. To constantly express post disagreeable opinions is a way to point to the self and say See, I DO exist... and I'm unique! It's a way to be noticed. Alas, there are obvious problems with such behavior if taken to an extreme. For example, becoming banned could be perceived as a badge of honor - a kind of consolation prize. (However, least I sound too uppety,I guess I could say that me resigning from Krivits' NET BoD was in a sense being banned as well... so go figger!) But let me get back to my spiel. If in subsequent years Rossi eCats actually DO start rolling off the shelves of stores like Home Depot I suspect MY will soon start searching around for another group (preferably linked to a controversial subject) so that she can continue to prove to an indifferent world that she actually does exist. I suspect grasshopper MY will probably not take the following advice in an agreeable fashion: Zen masters realize self doesn't exist, so stop constantly trying to prove to an indifferent universe that it does. It is a futile gesture that ultimately fails. I suspect a number of Zen masters would simply shrug their shoulders and say there are far more enjoyable things to do with consciousness as compared to constantly wearing a chip self's shoulder. Regards Swami OrionWorks
Re: [Vo]:Testing at University of Bologna - The Deadline Looms
On 2012-01-05 18:38, Robert Leguillon wrote: It seems that Rossi may have reaped the benefits associated with promises of independent university testing, but that delivery of this may never occur. Sterling D. Allan of PESN will conduct a live interview with him on January 14th with user submitted questions: http://pesn.com/2012/01/05/9602002_Anniversary_Interview_with_Rossi_Slated_for_January_14_3pm_MST/ Maybe we can press him to clarify Rossi's relationship with the University of Bologna as the deadline looms? Cheers, S.A.
Re: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Testing at University of Bologna - The Deadline Looms
On Fri, Jan 6, 2012 at 9:16 AM, OrionWorks - Steven V Johnson svj.orionwo...@gmail.com wrote: If in subsequent years Rossi eCats actually DO start rolling off the shelves of stores like Home Depot I suspect MY will soon start searching around for another group (preferably linked to a controversial subject) so that she can continue to prove to an indifferent world that she actually does exist. Long before Rossi devices appear on store shelves, some SINGLE proper and definitive independent test will have to be done and some ONE customer will have to admit buying and testing a Rossi reactor and will show it being properly tested in public. Despite continuous claims that they will do so, neither has done it. Rossi and Defkalion projections of huge numbers of sales to the public, including American customers, in calendar year 2012 are absurd.
Re: [Vo]:On Widow Larsen theory, need vulgarization, and critic
thanks, difference is subtle, and on wikipedia they even say that self-energy include effective mass... it is the same mass as the some heavy particle have because of Higgs Boson, or the one nucleus have different from their nucleons members. right? 2012/1/6 Daniel Rocha danieldi...@gmail.com That heavy mass electron in WL refers to its self-energy: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-energy Not to the mass in relation to the conduction band: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Effective_mass_(solid-state_physics)
Re: [Vo]:Testing at University of Bologna - The Deadline Looms
On Fri, Jan 6, 2012 at 9:16 AM, Akira Shirakawa shirakawa.ak...@gmail.comwrote: On 2012-01-05 18:38, Robert Leguillon wrote: It seems that Rossi may have reaped the benefits associated with promises of independent university testing, but that delivery of this may never occur. Sterling D. Allan of PESN will conduct a live interview with him on January 14th with user submitted questions: http://pesn.com/2012/01/05/**9602002_Anniversary_Interview_** with_Rossi_Slated_for_January_**14_3pm_MST/http://pesn.com/2012/01/05/9602002_Anniversary_Interview_with_Rossi_Slated_for_January_14_3pm_MST/ I suggest they start by asking him why he and Focardi are freezing their buns off in a room in which a running fusion reactor is present, supposedly making 10 to 15 kW of thermal energy. See the classical black and white photo with Levi's byline dated December 15,2010 (current location on Sterling's site is http://pesn.com/2012/01/05/9602002_Anniversary_Interview_with_Rossi_Slated_for_January_14_3pm_MST/index.1.gif) . Maybe we can press him to clarify Rossi's relationship with the University of Bologna as the deadline looms? Nah-- it's a waste of time. We already know his answer. He will say his new customer has solved the issues he wanted U of Bologna to investigate and he doesn't need them any more. Asked about verification tests by U of B to reassure the public, he will simply say to wait for marketing to proceed. He has a tangential or evasive answer for everything as evidenced by reading his blog. This upcoming interview is as likely to be lacking in useful content as most of the previous ones. Rossi has glib and uninformative answers to practically every relevant question. Guess what that suggests.
Re: [Vo]:On Widow Larsen theory, need vulgarization, and critic
The difference is not subtle, but it's the fault WL papers are not clear because they are dealing simultaneously with different subjects where the term mass has different meanings. I only realized that when I read a comment by another critic. But I didn't understand your question... 2012/1/6 Alain Sepeda alain.sep...@gmail.com thanks, difference is subtle, and on wikipedia they even say that self-energy include effective mass... it is the same mass as the some heavy particle have because of Higgs Boson, or the one nucleus have different from their nucleons members. right? 2012/1/6 Daniel Rocha danieldi...@gmail.com That heavy mass electron in WL refers to its self-energy: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-energy Not to the mass in relation to the conduction band: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Effective_mass_(solid-state_physics) -- Daniel Rocha - RJ danieldi...@gmail.com
RE: [Vo]:Hank Mills Weighs in on Defkalion?
Jones: Pages 1 and 2 (Project Summary) are missing from that PDF... -Mark _ From: Jones Beene [mailto:jone...@pacbell.net] Sent: Friday, January 06, 2012 8:46 AM To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: RE: [Vo]:Hank Mills Weighs in on Defkalion? Apparently - in claiming that no one else has shown robust and powerful Ni-H systems this Mills (not Randell) is unaware of what Thermacore was doing in the early nineties, ahead of Piantelli (and 50 times more robust). Unlike Rossi - the RD results in the paper below was verified independently. http://lenr-canr.org/acrobat/GernertNnascenthyd.pdf Yes, Thermacore used potassium, which is a (Randell) Mills' catalyst, but their system is robust - it is easy to show that they were getting more energy out of Ni-Hi (gas phase) in 1994 - per unit of nickel surface area, than Rossi gets today ! (about double). In effect - the Rossi story is NOT about Ni-H, but is really about the power of nano. The white-paper below presents the case for nano quite well in another arena. http://www.qsinano.com/white_papers/QSI_DSE_Hydrogen_PPT_March_07.pdf Thermacore used nickel capillary tubing, which has a decent surface area - but nothing compared to what Rossi calls nano-metric. The ratio increase in surface, over tubing, is about 100,000:1 if memory serves. From: Robert Leguillon __ Hank Mills http://www.peswiki.com/ January 5th, 2012 at 11:48 PM http://www.journal-of-nuclear-physics.com/?p=563cpage=10 Hello Everyone, I have recently become aware of the fact a certain other company (that everyone here should be aware of) is claiming to have a robust Ni-H system, without the use of catalysts. In my opinion, it should be pointed out that Andrea Rossi has already stated that without the use of catalysts, Ni-H systems do not produce a practical quantity of output. Instead, their output is extremely limited by orders of magnitude, compared to systems using catalysts. Since he is the only individual in the world to have demonstrated robust and powerful Ni-H systems, I think we need to remember what he has said on this topic. I think we should be skeptical of the claims of any company that claims to have robust Ni-H systems, but do not utilize catalysts. When the claims come from a company that has never performed a single demonstration, I think we need to be even more skeptical. Sincerely, Hank Mills _ attachment: winmail.dat
Re: [Vo]:Testing at University of Bologna - The Deadline Looms
Rossi seems to have trouble even keeping track of what he writes on his own blog. Here, the device has an output of 5 kW net: 1. Andrea Rossi January 6th, 2012 at 12:10 PMhttp://www.journal-of-nuclear-physics.com/?p=563cpage=10#comment-165106 Mr ” Tom Jones”: Since you used (a little bit cowardly) a fake name to make your comment, I can say without fear to damage you: what a stupid comment! Of course the E-Cat is a water heater, all the persons who have pre-ordered it and who will buy it know perfectly that it is what we always said it is: a water heater. With a difference between a normal water heater and the E-Cat: the normal water heaters use gas or oil or electricity in a measure bigger than the thermal energy produced heating the water, while the E-Cat makes 6 kWh consuming 1 kWh. Good Bye, “Tom Jones”. A.R. Here, it's 10 kW: 1. Andrea Rossi January 6th, 2012 at 11:42 AMhttp://www.journal-of-nuclear-physics.com/?p=510cpage=41#comment-165083 Dear K. Dobrolecki: We must make a distinction between the price of the industrial plants and the price of the domestic plants. For the industrial plants ( the 1 MW plants) the price from 2012 will be around 1,500.00 US$/kW, moreless 10%. The domestic E-Cats of 10 kW will be manufactured with a different technology and with a very good economy scale, due to the fact that we have started the production of 1 million pieces; such scale, obviously, will reduce by an order of magnitude the costs. If all goes as I hope and as I am working for, the 10 kW E-Cats will cost between 100 and 150 US$/kW. This fact will: 1- allow to everybody to buy an E-Cat 2- cancel the competition The reverse engineering will be, I think, impossible, due to a system we invented for this purpose, but even if somebody will succeed to do it, it will anyway be impossible for him to compete economically. The 1 MW plants have a totally different technology and engineering. Warm Regards, A.R. A different technology? What technology is that? From: http://www.rossilivecat.com/
[Vo]:Book :E-CAT The beginning of a new era
written by Camillo Urbani Camillo Urbani profile I am a physicist and in the last twenty years I have devoted myself to study the phenomenon of cold fusion and free energy. Given that the main problem is the lack of a shared theory that can explain the phenomenon, I thought I’d share my knowledge. In a forum of more ‘followed on the subject (www.energeticambiente.it) I opened a thread that has had some success with the public in which I wrote last year. In the quest to make myself understood even by less experienced, I wanted to explain some basic concepts of physics to allow everyone to understand what he was talking about and why science can not accept the cold fusion so easily. I then introduced some concepts of quantum mechanics in this field can help us to understand something more ‘. Since the work was interesting I thought I would group the more ‘relevant in a book. Of course there is no intention to give an official theory, but just some ideas to give the reader a chance to get an idea. I think anyone interested in reading fluently and find information. I hope that disclosing this information may be of interest, and help the cold fusion to be something a little ‘less mysterious. http://www.ecatnews.net/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/E-cat-english.pdf
Re: [Vo]:Celani to announce a possible marker of anomalous heat production in LENR
On 2012-01-06 01:25, Akira Shirakawa wrote: Hello group, By the way, this is the final version of the abstract of Celani's LENR talk for the Sustainable Energy Conference WSEC on January 10-12, now also including the paragraph cited in the opening post of this thread: http://www.22passi.it/downloads/Celani%20Abstract.doc Source: http://22passi.blogspot.com/2012/01/ultimi-aggiornamenti-sul-wswec-2012.html Cheers, S.A.
Re: [Vo]:LENR @ World Sustainable Energy Conference 2012
On 2012-01-03 12:43, Akira Shirakawa wrote: Hello group, [...] Progress, in the Condensed Matter Nuclear Science, on excess energy production: towards practical applications?, abstract by Francesco Celani (.doc, 1 page, 157KB). Final version here: http://www.22passi.it/downloads/Celani%20Abstract.doc Official ISEO-WSEC Conference 2012 event program, Geneva, 10-12 January 2012 (.pdf, 9 pages, 1,2MB). http://www.22passi.it/downloads/WSEC%20agenda.pdf English press release here (released today): http://www.22passi.it/downloads/Press%20Release%201%20E.doc Source: http://22passi.blogspot.com/2012/01/ultimi-aggiornamenti-sul-wswec-2012.html Cheers, S.A.
Re: [Vo]:Celani to announce a possible marker of anomalous heat production in LENR
On Thu, Jan 5, 2012 at 9:07 PM, Akira Shirakawa shirakawa.ak...@gmail.com wrote: On 2012-01-06 02:52, Harry Veeder wrote: In plain language is Celani saying he found the electrical resistance of the wire decreases with increasing temperature *if* the wire is loaded with hydrogen? Exactly, and more importantly that this phenomenon appears to be correlated with anomalous heat production (ie successful LENR experiments), so potentially materials/samples showing a more pronounced transition from a positive to negative temperature coefficient of resistance with hydrogen loading are the best ones. If confirmed, this would be a significant step forward towards excess heat reproducibility. I wonder if a Negative Temperature Coefficient is more than a marker of cold fusion but is also a precondition for cold fusion. It might be easier to create a NTC on a surface instead of inside a material and this might explain why powders have been better at producing heat consistently. Harry
Re: [Vo]:Hank Mills Weighs in on Defkalion?
Robert Leguillon robert.leguil...@hotmail.com wrote: Someone claiming to be Hank Mills chimed in on Rossi's JoNP webpage with: . . . I think we should be skeptical of the claims of any company that claims to have robust Ni-H systems, but do not utilize catalysts. Mills is confused. Defkalion says they do utilize a catalyst. They say they discovered the catalyst independently. If there is no patent, it does not matter how they develop it, as long they did not nothing criminal such as stealing a sample, and nothing in violation of a contract (subject to a civil suit). Even if they got a sample and reverse engineered it that would be legal. Without a patent anyone can do that. With the patent, you do not need to do that. The patent itself should tell you everything you need to know. If it does not, it is not valid. Rossi believes he is capable of manufacturing so many machines that even if someone reverse engineers it they will not be able to compete. In the early 1980s, IBM casually released the specifications for its personal computer and threw open the market for compatible PCs. They did this because they thought that they had such enormous manufacturing capabilities and such a large market share they did not have to worry about other companies undercutting them in price. They were wrong, but it was a rational calculation. Rossi's use of the same strategy is not only wrong, it is a bit crazy. However smart he may be, he cannot compete in mass production with companies such as Hitachi or GE. I do not think he can form an ironclad partnership with a large manufacturer. Suppose he goes in business with GE for example. That might give GE a six-month advantage and a large starting market share, but the others would soon catch up. - Jed
Re: [Vo]:Book :E-CAT The beginning of a new era
On Fri, Jan 6, 2012 at 1:14 PM, Mary Yugo maryyu...@gmail.com wrote: But who says that that the scheme that we have elaborated is perfect? For example if an animal will change suddenly his diet, will he continue to do same pupu like before? Now there is something to ponder! I don't think I can feed my pet civit peanuts and still drink Kopi Luwak. T
RE: [Vo]:Is the Rossi Reactor a Langmuir Torch
-Original Message- From: Terry Blanton So how exactly does the surface of a metal dissociate molecular hydrogen? Romanowski offers a complicated suggestion. In short - the copper-nickel alloy supplies about 3 eV of the necessary energy, in a kind of QM tunneling reaction. The molecule makes contact and part of it (one proton) sticks for a short time during which there is energy transfer. That deficit is the level that would need to be replaced by ZPE (or whatever). Where does the 4.476 eV come from? If ~3 eV comes from tunneling-like QM effects - in the way Romanowski claims, then the remainder would need to come from either chemistry or to be borrowed in advance of femtosecond recombination. There is little real transmutation (some, but hundreds of times too little to account for the gain). If only some of the energy comes from the zero point field then the Rossi reactor could be powered by the oscillation of hydrogen between the atomic and molecular states. Yes, Exactamundo ! ...that is one of the strong possibilities that we have been exploring for almost a year (yourself included), along with Roarty's cavity-based time distortion model, or alternatively with the idea that the proximate cause of gain is strong force asymmetric interaction with IRH, followed by Coulomb repulsion. That later explanation depletes non-quark nuclear mass (gauge bosons); and this is a little more palatable than is ZPE to some mentalities (who consider ZPE to be another word for magic). I think that all of the above viewpoints can be merged into a single M.O. eventually. And this evolving explanation is also compatible with slight radioactivity - since QM tunneling of protons can occasionally (but rarely) proceed to a nuclear reaction. Quote from Romanowski which is a shock to the cadre of palladium fusion advocates: On a basis of these calculations a measure of catalytic power of the metals was defined and the series of metals and alloys was ordered according to their catalytic power. It was found that the highest catalytic power with respect to the hydrogen dissociation process is exhibited by NiCu alloys. [over twice the catalytic power of palladium]. All the quantum-chemical calculations have been performed using the methods of the density functional theory (DFT). The nonlocal version of DFT was applied with the gradient-corrected functional for electron exchange and correlation. The GAUSSIAN-94 and -98 suites of programs were employed in the calculations. END of quote Here is the Wiki entry on DFT: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Density_functional_theory Some of the formalism looks similar to WL surface plasmons, etc. - but they are known to borrow from every source imaginable. At any rate there is a strong argument here that the gain appears largely non-nuclear, even if the energy source is non-quark nuclear mass (gluons masquerading as ZPE). Or not. Yes, in the end gluons-masquerading-as-ZPE will sound to skeptics a bit like Zeus masquerading as a swan ... Jones attachment: winmail.dat
Re: [Vo]:Testing at University of Bologna - The Deadline Looms
Mary Yugo wrote: I suggest they start by asking him why he and Focardi are freezing their buns off in a room in which a running fusion reactor is present, supposedly making 10 to 15 kW of thermal energy. That reactor produced 5 to 8 kW, not 15 kW. It was in a large, drafty room. 8 kW = 27,000 BTU/h which is nowhere near enough to heat a large room. It is about the same as a kerosene heater such as this one: DuraHeat 23,000 BTU Portable Kerosene Heater http://www.homedepot.com/buy/building-materials-heating-venting-cooling-heaters-portable-heaters/duraheat-23-000-btu-portable-kerosene-heater-159784.html This kind of heater was used in houses in Japan in the 1970s. It is not enough to keep a house comfortable in winter. You would hardly notice one blazing away in a warehouse, a barn, a classroom lecture hall, or the women's dormitory at Okayama U. -- which was, in fact, a barn, formerly occupied by Imperial Japanese Army horses. I wore a coat in such places, and I always had a cold. A 2000 sq. ft. house in Atlanta calls for a 45,000 BTU/h heater. Kerosene heaters are really dangerous, by the way. Picturesque but dangerous. - Jed
Re: [Vo]:Is the Rossi Reactor a Langmuir Torch
On Fri, Jan 6, 2012 at 2:41 PM, Jones Beene jone...@pacbell.net wrote: On a basis of these calculations a measure of catalytic power of the metals was defined and the series of metals and alloys was ordered according to their catalytic power. It was found that the highest catalytic power with respect to the hydrogen dissociation process is exhibited by NiCu alloys. [over twice the catalytic power of palladium]. Which Rossi possibly discovered by accident due to migration in one of his experiments. Now, all that is missing is the frequency of the RF generator. Must be 1.42 GHz. T
Re: [Vo]:Testing at University of Bologna - The Deadline Looms
On Fri, Jan 6, 2012 at 2:42 PM, Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.com wrote: Kerosene heaters are really dangerous, by the way. Picturesque but dangerous. Especially in houses with paper walls. T
Re: [Vo]:Testing at University of Bologna - The Deadline Looms
On Fri, Jan 6, 2012 at 11:42 AM, Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.com wrote: Mary Yugo wrote: I suggest they start by asking him why he and Focardi are freezing their buns off in a room in which a running fusion reactor is present, supposedly making 10 to 15 kW of thermal energy. That reactor produced 5 to 8 kW, not 15 kW. It was in a large, drafty room. 8 kW = 27,000 BTU/h which is nowhere near enough to heat a large room. It is about the same as a kerosene heater such as this one: It's not a barn, it's a small room. I heat a small garage with a 1.875 kW quartz tube vertical heater and it does just fine. In a room about 12 x 18 feet, with a standard ceiling, I can get a delta T of better than 10 degrees C which really makes a difference. It takes a bit of time is all. And close to the heater, it's actually too warm for comfort.They supposedly had about three times that power or more depending what you read -- plenty to warm the cockles of their hearts. Except clearly, it didn't.
RE: EXTERNAL: RE: [Vo]:Is the Rossi Reactor a Langmuir Torch
I agree with [snip] If ~3 eV comes from tunneling-like QM effects - in the way Romanowski claims, then the remainder would need to come from either chemistry or to be borrowed in advance of femtosecond recombination. There is little real transmutation (some, but hundreds of times too little to account for the gain). [/snip] In a much simpler Moller-Lyne model you could say the catalytic power discounts the disassociation threshold such that a well insulated/heated reactor would need less heating energy to achieve threshold then it gets back upon disassociation. This would quickly run away except for a carefully controlled heat extraction to balance the runaway and keep the temp constant. Fran BTW I know that over simplifies the source of catalytic energy [change in suppression geometry] and the relativistic interpretation of Casimir force that Naudts paper led me to adopt but it is an honest intuitive perspective. _ From: Jones Beene [mailto:jone...@pacbell.net] Sent: Friday, January 06, 2012 2:41 PM To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: EXTERNAL: RE: [Vo]:Is the Rossi Reactor a Langmuir Torch -Original Message- From: Terry Blanton So how exactly does the surface of a metal dissociate molecular hydrogen? Romanowski offers a complicated suggestion. In short - the copper-nickel alloy supplies about 3 eV of the necessary energy, in a kind of QM tunneling reaction. The molecule makes contact and part of it (one proton) sticks for a short time during which there is energy transfer. That deficit is the level that would need to be replaced by ZPE (or whatever). Where does the 4.476 eV come from? If ~3 eV comes from tunneling-like QM effects - in the way Romanowski claims, then the remainder would need to come from either chemistry or to be borrowed in advance of femtosecond recombination. There is little real transmutation (some, but hundreds of times too little to account for the gain). If only some of the energy comes from the zero point field then the Rossi reactor could be powered by the oscillation of hydrogen between the atomic and molecular states. Yes, Exactamundo ! ...that is one of the strong possibilities that we have been exploring for almost a year (yourself included), along with Roarty's cavity-based time distortion model, or alternatively with the idea that the proximate cause of gain is strong force asymmetric interaction with IRH, followed by Coulomb repulsion. That later explanation depletes non-quark nuclear mass (gauge bosons); and this is a little more palatable than is ZPE to some mentalities (who consider ZPE to be another word for magic). I think that all of the above viewpoints can be merged into a single M.O. eventually. And this evolving explanation is also compatible with slight radioactivity - since QM tunneling of protons can occasionally (but rarely) proceed to a nuclear reaction. Quote from Romanowski which is a shock to the cadre of palladium fusion advocates: On a basis of these calculations a measure of catalytic power of the metals was defined and the series of metals and alloys was ordered according to their catalytic power. It was found that the highest catalytic power with respect to the hydrogen dissociation process is exhibited by NiCu alloys. [over twice the catalytic power of palladium]. All the quantum-chemical calculations have been performed using the methods of the density functional theory (DFT). The nonlocal version of DFT was applied with the gradient-corrected functional for electron exchange and correlation. The GAUSSIAN-94 and -98 suites of programs were employed in the calculations. END of quote Here is the Wiki entry on DFT: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Density_functional_theory Some of the formalism looks similar to WL surface plasmons, etc. - but they are known to borrow from every source imaginable. At any rate there is a strong argument here that the gain appears largely non-nuclear, even if the energy source is non-quark nuclear mass (gluons masquerading as ZPE). Or not. Yes, in the end gluons-masquerading-as-ZPE will sound to skeptics a bit like Zeus masquerading as a swan ... Jones
RE: EXTERNAL: [Vo]:Is the Rossi Reactor a Langmuir Torch
Terry, The surface forms Casimir geometry which suppresses the larger virtual particles from fitting between the parallel surfaces - this is IMHO equivalent to acceleration in the same way that gravity is except that this is a hill or warp instead of a well ...an equivalent inertial frame like gravity but highly variable - no slow gradients but rather changes inversely to the cube [or quad for perfect metals] of the distance between the plates. These rapid changes in suppression levels are the hidden metrics in catalytic action [a big hint I like to cite is the researchers at Cornell found catalytic action only occurs at the openings and defects in nanotubes]. These inertial frames can become extreme to the point of relativistic effects. My posit is that atomic hydrogen and molecular hydrogen do NOT translate the same between regions - the molecular bonds of H2 oppose the translation compared to relatively little or no opposition by atomic hydrogen. The ZPE is from the normally chaotic motion of hydrogen gas supplied by HUP in opposition to the molecular bonds when the motion tries to force h2 to translate - if the environment is correct [heated close to disassociation level] this opposition can force HUP to discount the disassociation threshold such that less heat needs to be supplied then is released when the disassociated atoms reform a molecule at their new fractional values. My posit above is that fewer or smaller VP are NOT left in the suppressed void but rather space-time fabric has a consistent density and cross section population such that the fabric stretches to allow the larger VP to fit - a poor man's route to relativistic space without the need for near luminal velocity. Locally VP and any hydrogen occupying the suppressed region are unaware of these changes and the Casimir boundaries appear to have shrunk away to make room for them while from our perspective they appear smaller and time dilated/catalyzed. Not that catalytic action is all time dilation but rather the ripping action of constantly changing of the time rate as the gas migrates through different zones like a shaker table where the hydrogen is from our perspective being violently oscillated along the time axis. Fran -Original Message- From: Terry Blanton [mailto:hohlr...@gmail.com] Sent: Friday, January 06, 2012 11:31 AM To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: EXTERNAL: [Vo]:Is the Rossi Reactor a Langmuir Torch fueled by ZPE? It would seem that the numbers are right and absolutely no nuclear reactions nor transmutations are occurring. The energy of association of nascent hydrogen is 4.476 eV per H2 atom. The dissociation energy of one mole of H2 is 4.476 x 6.02 x 10^23 = 2.7 x 10^24 eV. At 22.47 MeV per kWh, we're talking about 1.2 x 10^18 MeV or 5.35 x 10^16 kWh of energy in a gram of nascent hydrogen. (someone check my math please) So how exactly does the surface of a metal dissociate molecular hydrogen? Where does the 4.476 eV come from? If only some of the energy comes from the zero point field then the Rossi reactor could be powered by the oscillation of hydrogen between the atomic and molecular states. Or not. T
Re: [Vo]:Testing at University of Bologna - The Deadline Looms
On Fri, Jan 6, 2012 at 12:28 PM, Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.com wrote: Mary Yugo wrote: It's not a barn, it's a small room. Where is this photo? The photo I have is in a warehouse sized room. I linked the photo. I think it's the same location that Krivit described -- a small room connected to a large warehouse. BTW, even if it's a large room, the local effect should be substantial. The insulation hurts a bit but then, they could've removed it, circulated the steam in a copper coil and proved that they could heat the local area. Guess they didn't. Funny how Rossi never does the obvious tests but does all the obscure and misdirecting ones. Must be coincidence. More on that room -- it appears to be just 80 square feet and while I am not sure it's the same room, it seems probable from the looks of it that it is: I entered a 7,500-square-foot room. Nothing was installed in it, and electrical power came into the room from an extension cable. Except for a few dozen folding chairs, a few tables, and a small portable coffee machine (essential in Italy), the room was barren. Adjacent to this large room were two smaller rooms. One was a bathroom, and next to that, in an 80-square-foot room, Rossi’s E-Cat sat on a small table. Two large tanks of hydrogen stood next to it. From Kirivit's trip report here: http://newenergytimes.com/v2/news/2011/37/RossiECatReport1.shtml That was probably the same room. If it was not, then whatever room it is should have heated up-- it was only appx 8 x 10 feet! Larger images of the room with Focardi and Rossi are here (LOL!): http://www.moletrap.co.uk/wiki/index.php/Rossicaptions This is sort of a trivial matter and can't be settled for sure without cooperation from Rossi or Levi which I am certain won't be forthcoming, LOLOLOL! I only talked about it for the amusement value.
[Vo]:OT:Deus Ex Machina
(wikipedia) The deus ex machina is often considered to be a poor storytelling technique by critics because it undermines the story's internal logic, although it is sometimes employed deliberately for this reason. Following Aristotle, Renaissance critics continued to view the deus ex machina as an inept plot device, although it continued to be employed by Renaissance dramatists; Shakespeare used the device in As You Like It, Pericles, Prince of Tyre, and The Winter's Tale.[14] Towards the end of the 19th century, Friedrich Nietzsche criticized Euripides for making tragedy an optimistic genre via use of the device and was highly skeptical of the Greek cheerfulness, prompting what he viewed as the plays' blissful delight in life.[15] The deus ex machina, as Nietzsche saw it, was symptomatic of Socratic culture that valued knowledge over Dionysiac music and ultimately caused the death of tragedy:[16] But the new non-Dionysiac spirit is most clearly apparent in the endings of the new dramas. At the end of the old tragedies there was a sense of metaphysical conciliation without which it is impossible to imagine our taking delight in tragedy; perhaps the conciliatory tones from another world echo most purely in Oedipus at Colonus. Now, once tragedy had lost the genius of music, tragedy in the strictest sense was dead: for where was that metaphysical consolation now to be found? Hence an earthly resolution for tragic dissonance was sought; the hero, having been adequately tormented by fate, won his well-earned reward in a stately marriage and tokens of divine honour. The hero had become a gladiator, granted freedom once he had been satisfactorily flayed and scarred. Metaphysical consolation had been ousted by the deus ex machina. —Friedrich Nietzsche Nietzsche argues that the deus ex machina creates a false sense of consolation that ought not to be sought in phenomena and this denigration of the plot device has prevailed in critical opinion.[17] Some 20th-century revisionist criticism suggests that the deus ex machina cannot be viewed in these simplified terms and argues rather that the device allows mortals to probe their relationship with the divine.[18] Rush Rehm in particular cites examples of Greek tragedy in which the deus ex machina serves to complicate the lives and attitudes of characters confronted by the deity whilst simultaneously bringing the drama home to its audience.[18]
Re: [Vo]:Testing at University of Bologna - The Deadline Looms
Mary Yugo maryyu...@gmail.com wrote: Larger images of the room with Focardi and Rossi are here (LOL!): http://www.moletrap.co.uk/wiki/index.php/Rossicaptions This is sort of a trivial matter and can't be settled for sure without cooperation from Rossi or Levi . . . The heat from that reactor is going down the drain. This is like running a hot water heater, dumping water into your kitchen sink and down the drain, and expecting it to heat your house. My home water heater is 12 kW, about the same as this device. It does not heat up the closet it is installed in much. (The closet is off the back porch, and has no register from the central heating.) Running hot water through the dishwasher and down the drain in the kitchen does not heat the kitchen much. It triggers the water heater to supply 12 kW for a while, so that much heat is going through the system. I thought you were talking about the stand alone space heater in the EON factory in Italy. That's about 8 kW. - Jed
[Vo]:Toy model of Widom-Larsen theory for classical charged particles
W-L theory is based on abstruse QED (quantum electro-dynamics), in which a 'heavy electron' acquires extra mass from a photon 'dressing'. In classical electromagnetic DC-current flow in wires, I believe this effect mostly reduces to the inductive energy a conductive electron gains. This simpler classical physics model is presented in: Low frequency plasmons in thin-wire structures http://siba.unipv.it/fisica/articoli/J/Journal%20of%20PhisicsvCondensedvMatter_vol.10_1998_pp.4785-4809.pdf On p.4788, the authors derive this equation for electron effective mass (m_eff) in an x-y parallel grid of nanowires of 1 micron radius(=r) and spaced 5 mm apart (=a) in both x- and y- axes of the plane. m_eff = (mu_0)*(e^2)*(r^2)*n*ln(a/r)/2 = 14.83 m_p where mu_0 = vacuum permeability e= electron charge m_p = proton mass n= conduction electron density for Aluminum In the paper, 'n' is for aluminum, but nickel has the same 11.7 eV Fermi energy as aluminum (see [1]). So the value for m_eff is nearly the same for nickel. (The approach used is to divide bulk inductive current momentum in a unit volume of wire by the number of conductance electrons in a unit volume.) So, to overcome the 0.78 MeV barrier to neutron formation in electron-proton collisions in this wire grid, the minimum electron velocity 'v' must satify 0.78 Mev = 1.25 * 10^(-13) Joule = 1.25 * 10^(-13) kg*(m/sec)^2 = (m_eff * v^2)/2 = 2.48 * 10^(-26) kg * (v^2)/2 Or, minimum required electron velocity is v = 3.18 * 10^6 m/sec I'm not certain, but I do not think electrons in disordered, amorphous wires reach this velocity, but that ballistic electrons in sufficiently long crystalline wires can. Changing grid parameters changes m_eff and speed the threshhold as well. Are these assumptions reasonable? Is this check on W-L theory correct? Comments appreciated, Lou Pagnucco [1] EMP AND HPM SUPPRESSION TECHNIQUES - http://dodreports.com/ada360541
Re: EXTERNAL: [Vo]:Is the Rossi Reactor a Langmuir Torch
On Fri, Jan 6, 2012 at 3:55 PM, Roarty, Francis X francis.x.roa...@lmco.com wrote: My posit above is that fewer or smaller VP are NOT left in the suppressed void but rather space-time fabric has a consistent density and cross section population such that the fabric stretches to allow the larger VP to fit - a poor man's route to relativistic space without the need for near luminal velocity. I find your explanation elegant enough to be true. And as Keats says in Ode on a Grecian Urn, Beauty is truth, truth beauty, - that is all / Ye know on earth, and all ye need to know. Unfortunately, Keats did not tell us how to discern truth but science says theories must be falsifiable and the theorizer must come up with a test for his theory. I would not begin to know how to test any of these Rossi theories. Regards, T
Re: [Vo]:Testing at University of Bologna - The Deadline Looms
I wrote: Running hot water through the dishwasher and down the drain in the kitchen does not heat the kitchen much. It triggers the water heater to supply 12 kW for a while, so that much heat is going through the system. Actually, it is probably more than 12 kW. A U.S.-style tank water heater with 12 kW heater gets measurably colder if you run the water full blast through the kitchen for about ~4 minutes. Mine does, anyway. This means you are taking more than 12 kW of heat out. The heater cannot keep up. The whole point of making it a tank instead of a heat-on-demand heater is to have a reservoir of heat so the instantaneous heat from the gas fire can be less than your peak demand. Here is a heater that has to keep up with demand, with no reservoir: Bosch Water Heating AE-115 Electric Tankless Whole House Water Heater It is 18 kW. Flow Rate at 45 Degree F Rise: 2.6 GPM That's not enough of a flow for my whole house! I digress. To answer Mary Yugo's question, they are wearing overcoats because most of the heat from the reactor is warming up the sewer pipes below the building. Note that people in Europe and Japan keep buildings cold by American standards. They often wear overcoats indoors. Ah ha . . . I see now that I tested this very thing on Dec. 7, when I ran tests with water running through the bathroom sink for an hour and a half, where I tied together the hot and cold pipes. I monitored ambient temperature. It is a small bathroom. The tests triggered the water heater, and the hot water cooled down. So 12 kW was not keeping up. Ambient temperature did not change much. In other words, letting hot water gush through the sink and down the drain did not heat the room much. Ambient rose from 19 to 22 deg C . . . Good thing I did not toss out these notes. The bathroom is off of the hall which has the central heating thermostat, so that would prevent the temperature from rising if the warm air from the bathroom warmed up the hallway. But the door was closed much of the time because it was noisy. There is a ceiling vent with a fan. Running water through the sink does not heat up the air, but running it though the shower will, because the water mixes with a lot of air. It puts a lot of moisture into the air. In my house, when you open the bathroom door after a shower, the water in the air may trigger the smoke alarm in the hallway. You have to remember to turn on the ceiling fan while showering to prevent this. - Jed
RE: [Vo]:Testing at University of Bologna - The Deadline Looms
And it would become unbearably humid inside, so why hassle with it? From: Mary Yugo [mailto:maryyu...@gmail.com] Sent: Friday, January 06, 2012 1:05 PM To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [Vo]:Testing at University of Bologna - The Deadline Looms On Fri, Jan 6, 2012 at 12:28 PM, Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.com wrote: Mary Yugo wrote: It's not a barn, it's a small room. Where is this photo? The photo I have is in a warehouse sized room. I linked the photo. I think it's the same location that Krivit described -- a small room connected to a large warehouse. BTW, even if it's a large room, the local effect should be substantial. The insulation hurts a bit but then, they could've removed it, circulated the steam in a copper coil and proved that they could heat the local area. Guess they didn't. Funny how Rossi never does the obvious tests but does all the obscure and misdirecting ones. Must be coincidence. More on that room -- it appears to be just 80 square feet and while I am not sure it's the same room, it seems probable from the looks of it that it is: I entered a 7,500-square-foot room. Nothing was installed in it, and electrical power came into the room from an extension cable. Except for a few dozen folding chairs, a few tables, and a small portable coffee machine (essential in Italy), the room was barren. Adjacent to this large room were two smaller rooms. One was a bathroom, and next to that, in an 80-square-foot room, Rossi's E-Cat sat on a small table. Two large tanks of hydrogen stood next to it. From Kirivit's trip report here: http://newenergytimes.com/v2/news/2011/37/RossiECatReport1.shtml That was probably the same room. If it was not, then whatever room it is should have heated up-- it was only appx 8 x 10 feet! Larger images of the room with Focardi and Rossi are here (LOL!): http://www.moletrap.co.uk/wiki/index.php/Rossicaptions This is sort of a trivial matter and can't be settled for sure without cooperation from Rossi or Levi which I am certain won't be forthcoming, LOLOLOL! I only talked about it for the amusement value.
Re: [Vo]:On Widow Larsen theory, need vulgarization, and critic
my question was to check if the self energy is a mass weighting the energy of the interaction of the particle with the around, like we find that nucleons are more heavy inside a nucleus than alone, free... like also Z/W bosons get heavy because they interact with Higgs bosons... so unlike effective mass of charges inside a semiconductor, which simply take into account the lasyness of the particle to move, self energy is a real mass, caused by interaction with the around, which is real energy, thus mass? am I wrong (it is basic QP I suppose, but I'm just below this level) so the heavy electrons are in fact really heavy pseudoparticle. pseudo because they are bound to a lattice, and probably tied with SPP? is this like nucleons are tied inside a nucleus, by strong force? this is the secret? when one of that electrons should move because of a force/field, it move slowly because first when moving he always exchange bosons with neighbours, which slow him. also because the energy have a weight? (or is it the same fact, self interaction slow by interaction, which is same a weight) 2012/1/6 Daniel Rocha danieldi...@gmail.com The difference is not subtle, but it's the fault WL papers are not clear because they are dealing simultaneously with different subjects where the term mass has different meanings. I only realized that when I read a comment by another critic. But I didn't understand your question... 2012/1/6 Alain Sepeda alain.sep...@gmail.com thanks, difference is subtle, and on wikipedia they even say that self-energy include effective mass... it is the same mass as the some heavy particle have because of Higgs Boson, or the one nucleus have different from their nucleons members. right? 2012/1/6 Daniel Rocha danieldi...@gmail.com That heavy mass electron in WL refers to its self-energy: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-energy Not to the mass in relation to the conduction band: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Effective_mass_(solid-state_physics) -- Daniel Rocha - RJ danieldi...@gmail.com
Re: [Vo]:Is the Rossi Reactor a Langmuir Torch
If the source of Rossi Reactor energy is association of nascent hydrogen, there is an easy test. All you have to do is detect 277 nm far-ultraviolet photons whose energy is equal to 4.476 eV. Now that I mention it, I recall a window in the reactor in one of the Defkalion photos which could have been for detection of these photons. It would tell them at what point the reaction has begun. So, how are the 277 nm photons turned into heat? T
[Vo]:Simple, even simple-minded tests can be a great help in understanding these things
Mary Yugo asked a sensible question: Why are these people wearing overcoats standing next to a 12 kW heater? She then said: This is sort of a trivial matter and can't be settled for sure without cooperation from Rossi or Levi which I am certain won't be forthcoming, LOLOLOL! I only talked about it for the amusement value. That is wrong. You can settle this without cooperation from Rossi. As I said, you can stand next to a 12 kW water heater for a while, measure ambient temperature several times over an hour and a half, and you will see that it does not heat up the room much. It also helps to know that people in Europe tend to keep buildings cold. As I described here, on December 7 I did a simpleminded, crude test with water flowing through pipes. This is actually less crude than it seems. I put some thought into it. I believe it simulates the effects of pipes placed close together with an air envelope transferring heat from one pipe to the other. I think I showed that those effects are negligible. They are so small they cannot be measured with the ordinary instruments used by HVAC people or by Rossi. With all due respect, I think I did a better job than Vorl Bek, who addressed the same question but failed to insulate the heat source. He did not trap the air, so that is an invalid test. There is a great deal of value in doing simpleminded tests with ordinary thermometers to familiarize yourself with equipment of this size and scale. I think that Yugo and others should try this, even though it makes you feel like a Boy Scout or a middle school kid doing a science fair project. Yugo laughs at her own question, LOLOLOL . . . amusement value . . . It it not amusing. It is a good question. But she failed to see that the answer is pretty obvious. You have to be familiar with water heaters to critique Rossi's tests. I fooled around with water heaters and thermometers at Hydrodynamics, at Gene's lab, and at home at various times. Just to get a feel for it. That's the key thing: *get a feel for it*. Learn what to expect. Learn what 12 kW flame looks like, and what hot water from a 12 kW heater feels like. I have also done months of work with laboratory scale calorimeters operating at ~1 to ~100 W, when I worked with Gene Mallove, Mizuno and others. That is more demanding. It is more scientific. You use blanks and so on, which no one does in HVAC-scale testing. I would not dare critique calorimetry if I had not done this. Not to say I did such a great job, but it was an essential learning experience. There are lot of issues such as fluid mixing, the stability of thermocouples versus thermistors, flow rates being too low, and so on, which you cannot understand without doing and seeing. People who have not done hands-on lab work (however badly) are on thin ice when they critique experiments. That is why I never talk about mass spectroscopy. I know enough about it to know that I don't know enough about it. I have translated a book chapter on this, and edited many papers, so I get the general idea. But I have not *done it*, so I can't judge it. - Jed
Re: [Vo]:Is the Rossi Reactor a Langmuir Torch
T, 277 nm far-ultraviolet photons reminds me of Black Lights company name and their claims of spectrum shift. So, how are the 277 nm photons turned into heat? It is likely a relentless stream of photons that heat any absorbing material. I seem to recall one European researcher received a severe sun burn from a black Light plasma which would be far less than the concentrated plasma generated inside a reactor AND let us not forget the unusually high temps associated with atomic hydrogen torches when h1 atoms re-associate. Fraan Terry Blanton Fri, 06 Jan 2012 15:21:02 -0800 If the source of Rossi Reactor energy is association of nascent hydrogen, there is an easy test. All you have to do is detect 277 nm far-ultraviolet photons whose energy is equal to 4.476 eV. Now that I mention it, I recall a window in the reactor in one of the Defkalion photos which could have been for detection of these photons. It would tell them at what point the reaction has begun. So, how are the 277 nm photons turned into heat? T
Re: [Vo]:Is the Rossi Reactor a Langmuir Torch
On Fri, Jan 6, 2012 at 7:33 PM, Jones Beene jone...@pacbell.net wrote: My bet on that window, which I did not notice, is that it would be for use with a start-up device (a laser, for instance), and not as a detector. http://defkalion-energy.com/files/DGT_PRESS%20RELEASE_2011-11-14.pdf The last two piccys. One has a probe attached (yellow), the other has some type of magnifying lens. Now a quartz window is assumed. But triggering on excess heat is not what Rossi does. He seems to have a feel for when the reaction has started. Maybe it's audible. Dunno. T
Re: [Vo]:Celani to announce a possible marker of anomalous heat production in LENR
On 2012-01-06 01:25, Akira Shirakawa wrote: Hello group, Francesco Celani today wrote an email to 22passi to clarify some of the points described in the preliminary abstract I've cited in the opening post of this thread. Unfortunately for international users, it's in Italian, but Google Translate appears to perform a relatively good job in translating it to English. I'm providing the original link in case anybody wants to use other machine translation services: http://22passi.blogspot.com/2012/01/ancora-cortesi-precisazioni-da-celani.html Cheers, S.A.
Re: [Vo]:Is the Rossi Reactor a Langmuir Torch
Bloody hell. If the reactor works by the oscillation of hydrogen between molecular and atomic states, the only reason to have to service the reactor is the depletion of hydrogen through the reactor walls or some type of pollution occurring in the reaction. It makes a large difference in the economics if you really don't need to service the reactor every six months. That could be a financial ruse. T
[Vo]:Welcome to Jurassic Park...
I'll be first in line when it opens. Supersoldier ants created in the lab by reactivating ancestral genes http://www.physorg.com/news/2012-01-supersoldier-ants-lab-reactivating-ances tral.html It isn't too far a stretch to go the next step. -Mark
Re: [Vo]:Simple, even simple-minded tests can be a great help in understanding these things
On Fri, Jan 6, 2012 at 3:24 PM, Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.com wrote: Mary Yugo asked a sensible question: Why are these people wearing overcoats standing next to a 12 kW heater? She then said: This is sort of a trivial matter and can't be settled for sure without cooperation from Rossi or Levi which I am certain won't be forthcoming, LOLOLOL! I only talked about it for the amusement value. That is wrong. You can settle this without cooperation from Rossi. As I said, you can stand next to a 12 kW water heater for a while, measure ambient temperature several times over an hour and a half, and you will see that it does not heat up the room much. It also helps to know that people in Europe tend to keep buildings cold. As I described here, on December 7 I did a simpleminded, crude test with water flowing through pipes. This is actually less crude than it seems. I put some thought into it. I believe it simulates the effects of pipes placed close together with an air envelope transferring heat from one pipe to the other. I think I showed that those effects are negligible. They are so small they cannot be measured with the ordinary instruments used by HVAC people or by Rossi. With all due respect, I think I did a better job than Vorl Bek, who addressed the same question but failed to insulate the heat source. He did not trap the air, so that is an invalid test.SNIP Hold on a moment. Rossi is SELLING THESE AS HEATERS (if he ever sells them). And also, he claimed to have one HEATING HIS FACTORY when he wrote his patent and he again claimed to have one HEATING A ROOM currently as per his blog. So I guess it is a reasonable question why he and Focardi are bundled up against cold in a room with a E-cat in it which, according to Rossi, could easily be used to HEAT THE ROOM. See my problem with all this? Nothing much of what these guys say and do makes much sense. Least of all planning to make a thousand HEATERS this year!
RE: [Vo]:Welcome to Jurassic Park...
British scientists had previously turned on dormant teeth genes in chickens (eluding to the evolutionary link with their Dino ancestors). http://m.guardian.co.uk/education/2006/feb/23/research.highereducation?cat=educationtype=article From: zeropo...@charter.net To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Date: Fri, 6 Jan 2012 17:37:09 -0800 Subject: [Vo]:Welcome to Jurassic Park... I’ll be first in line when it opens… Supersoldier ants created in the lab by reactivating ancestral geneshttp://www.physorg.com/news/2012-01-supersoldier-ants-lab-reactivating-ancestral.html It isn’t too far a stretch to go the next step… -Mark
Re: [Vo]:Welcome to Jurassic Park...
I cannot wait for some old genes of mine be reactivated so that I will lay my own eggs. 2012/1/6 Robert Leguillon robert.leguil...@hotmail.com British scientists had previously turned on dormant teeth genes in chickens (eluding to the evolutionary link with their Dino ancestors). http://m.guardian.co.uk/education/2006/feb/23/research.highereducation?cat=educationtype=article -- From: zeropo...@charter.net To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Date: Fri, 6 Jan 2012 17:37:09 -0800 Subject: [Vo]:Welcome to Jurassic Park... I’ll be first in line when it opens… Supersoldier ants created in the lab by reactivating ancestral genes http://www.physorg.com/news/2012-01-supersoldier-ants-lab-reactivating-ancestral.html It isn’t too far a stretch to go the next step… -Mark -- Daniel Rocha - RJ danieldi...@gmail.com
Re: [Vo]:America's first jet flight Oct 1942
I like how a dummy wooden prop was used to disguised the aircraft's secret propulsion system. Harry On Fri, Jan 6, 2012 at 8:51 PM, Aussie Guy E-Cat aussieguy.e...@gmail.com wrote: http://www.aircraftowner.com/videos/view/americas-first-jet-flight-october-1942_1617.html
Re: [Vo]:America's first jet flight Oct 1942
I thought the door bell vibrator to jiggle the instrument panel was cool. My kind of solution. AG On 1/7/2012 12:38 PM, Harry Veeder wrote: I like how a dummy wooden prop was used to disguised the aircraft's secret propulsion system. Harry On Fri, Jan 6, 2012 at 8:51 PM, Aussie Guy E-Cat aussieguy.e...@gmail.com wrote: http://www.aircraftowner.com/videos/view/americas-first-jet-flight-october-1942_1617.html
Re: [Vo]:America's first jet flight Oct 1942
In 1910 Henri Coandă filed a patent on a jet propulsion system which used piston-engine exhaust gases to add heat to an otherwise pure air stream compressed by rotating fan blades in a duct. The turbojet, was invented in the 1940s, independently by Frank Whittle and Hans von Ohain. The first turbojet aircraft to fly was the Heinkel He 178 prototype of the Luftwaffe on August 27, 1939. The first flight of a jet engined aircraft to come to popular attention was the Italian Caproni Campini N.1 motorjet prototype that flew on August 27, 1940. It was the first jet aircraft recognised by the Fédération Aéronautique Internationale (at the time the German He 178 program was still kept secret). Campini had proposed the motorjet in 1932. The British experimental Gloster E.28/39 first took to the air on May 15, 1941, powered by Sir Frank Whittle's turbojet. After the United States was shown the British work, it produced the Bell XP-59A with a version of the Whittle engine built by General Electric, which flew on October 1, 1942. Seems the Italians beat the Yanks to the first public Jet Aircraft. Looks like history is repeating itself with the E-Cat. AG On 1/7/2012 12:38 PM, Harry Veeder wrote: I like how a dummy wooden prop was used to disguised the aircraft's secret propulsion system. Harry On Fri, Jan 6, 2012 at 8:51 PM, Aussie Guy E-Cat aussieguy.e...@gmail.com wrote: http://www.aircraftowner.com/videos/view/americas-first-jet-flight-october-1942_1617.html
Re: [Vo]:Simple, even simple-minded tests can be a great help in understanding these things
Mary Yugo maryyu...@gmail.com wrote: Hold on a moment. Rossi is SELLING THESE AS HEATERS (if he ever sells them). And also, he claimed to have one HEATING HIS FACTORY when he wrote his patent and he again claimed to have one HEATING A ROOM currently as per his blog. Yes. I have a photo of the factory heater. Several people observed it. So I guess it is a reasonable question why he and Focardi are bundled up against cold in a room with a E-cat in it which, according to Rossi, could easily be used to HEAT THE ROOM. Yes, but they are using it to heat the water, to do calorimetry. This is a test of the machine, not a commercial or practical use of it. You cannot do calorimetry when you heat a room. See my problem with all this? No, I do not see your point. Your comment seems idiotic. Why are you quibbling about this? You can see this is a test. You keep demanding tests. When he does one, you demand it should not be a test but a practical application instead. I think you are arguing for no reason, raising trivial, meaningless objections, and I think you are being silly. - Jed
RE: [Vo]:Simple, even simple-minded tests can be a great help in understanding these things
She's an insignificant troll. nothing more. -m From: Jed Rothwell [mailto:jedrothw...@gmail.com] Sent: Friday, January 06, 2012 7:27 PM To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [Vo]:Simple, even simple-minded tests can be a great help in understanding these things Mary Yugo maryyu...@gmail.com wrote: Hold on a moment. Rossi is SELLING THESE AS HEATERS (if he ever sells them). And also, he claimed to have one HEATING HIS FACTORY when he wrote his patent and he again claimed to have one HEATING A ROOM currently as per his blog. Yes. I have a photo of the factory heater. Several people observed it. So I guess it is a reasonable question why he and Focardi are bundled up against cold in a room with a E-cat in it which, according to Rossi, could easily be used to HEAT THE ROOM. Yes, but they are using it to heat the water, to do calorimetry. This is a test of the machine, not a commercial or practical use of it. You cannot do calorimetry when you heat a room. See my problem with all this? No, I do not see your point. Your comment seems idiotic. Why are you quibbling about this? You can see this is a test. You keep demanding tests. When he does one, you demand it should not be a test but a practical application instead. I think you are arguing for no reason, raising trivial, meaningless objections, and I think you are being silly. - Jed
RE: [Vo]:Welcome to Jurassic Park...
Scrambled Rocha-eggs for breakfast! Yummy! -Mark From: Daniel Rocha [mailto:danieldi...@gmail.com] Sent: Friday, January 06, 2012 6:04 PM To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [Vo]:Welcome to Jurassic Park... I cannot wait for some old genes of mine be reactivated so that I will lay my own eggs. 2012/1/6 Robert Leguillon robert.leguil...@hotmail.com British scientists had previously turned on dormant teeth genes in chickens (eluding to the evolutionary link with their Dino ancestors). http://m.guardian.co.uk/education/2006/feb/23/research.highereducation?cat=e ducation http://m.guardian.co.uk/education/2006/feb/23/research.highereducation?cat= educationtype=article type=article _ From: zeropo...@charter.net To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Date: Fri, 6 Jan 2012 17:37:09 -0800 Subject: [Vo]:Welcome to Jurassic Park... I'll be first in line when it opens. Supersoldier ants created in the lab by reactivating ancestral genes http://www.physorg.com/news/2012-01-supersoldier-ants-lab-reactivating-ances tral.html It isn't too far a stretch to go the next step. -Mark -- Daniel Rocha - RJ danieldi...@gmail.com
Re: [Vo]:Welcome to Jurassic Park...
Rocha = Rock, lol. I hope you teeth will survive! 2012/1/7 Mark Iverson-ZeroPoint zeropo...@charter.net Scrambled Rocha-eggs for breakfast! Yummy! -Mark ** ** *From:* Daniel Rocha [mailto:danieldi...@gmail.com] *Sent:* Friday, January 06, 2012 6:04 PM *To:* vortex-l@eskimo.com *Subject:* Re: [Vo]:Welcome to Jurassic Park... ** ** I cannot wait for some old genes of mine be reactivated so that I will lay my own eggs. 2012/1/6 Robert Leguillon robert.leguil...@hotmail.com British scientists had previously turned on dormant teeth genes in chickens (eluding to the evolutionary link with their Dino ancestors). http://m.guardian.co.uk/education/2006/feb/23/research.highereducation?cat=educationtype=article -- From: zeropo...@charter.net To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Date: Fri, 6 Jan 2012 17:37:09 -0800 Subject: [Vo]:Welcome to Jurassic Park... ** ** I’ll be first in line when it opens… Supersoldier ants created in the lab by reactivating ancestral genes http://www.physorg.com/news/2012-01-supersoldier-ants-lab-reactivating-ancestral.html It isn’t too far a stretch to go the next step… -Mark ** ** -- Daniel Rocha - RJ danieldi...@gmail.com ** ** -- Daniel Rocha - RJ danieldi...@gmail.com
Re: [Vo]:Celani to announce a possible marker of anomalous heat production in LENR
*It seems increasingly apparent to me that the fundamental causation of the Rossi effect is an abundance of cooper pairs of protons at the surface of the nickel nano-powder. These “quantum mechanical holes” explain how radioactive nickel reaction products are avoided in the transmutation of nickel to copper as recently explained by H. Heffner here at vortex.* * * *Acting as a semi-conductor, the increase in the quantity of these coherent cooper pairs of protons as the reaction temperature increases at the surface of the nano-powder directly corresponds to the Negative Temperature Coefficient of conductivity as observed by Francesco Celani.* * * *Such phenomenon: increase in the quantity of these coherent cooper pairs of protons, is correlated with heat production and increases in direct proportion as the production of anomalous heat increases.* * * *Nano-powder produces proton “holes” at the center of each nano-granule, a well know phenomena. The absorption of hydrogen quantum mechanically organizes these protons to create coherent cooper pairs of protons which serve as potent charge carriers at the surface of the nano-powder.* * * *In other words, the increase in electrical conductivity is a direct measure of the abundance of proton cooper pairs. In the same way that electron cooper pairs support superconnectivity, proton cooper pairs reverse Positive Temperature Coefficient (PTC) of the resistance to a semi-conductive negative resistance regime when large amounts of Hydrogen are absorbed by nickel nano-powder thereby adding a sort of superconducting like quantum mechanical coherence to the nano-powder.* * * * * On Fri, Jan 6, 2012 at 1:27 PM, Harry Veeder hveeder...@gmail.com wrote: On Thu, Jan 5, 2012 at 9:07 PM, Akira Shirakawa shirakawa.ak...@gmail.com wrote: On 2012-01-06 02:52, Harry Veeder wrote: In plain language is Celani saying he found the electrical resistance of the wire decreases with increasing temperature *if* the wire is loaded with hydrogen? Exactly, and more importantly that this phenomenon appears to be correlated with anomalous heat production (ie successful LENR experiments), so potentially materials/samples showing a more pronounced transition from a positive to negative temperature coefficient of resistance with hydrogen loading are the best ones. If confirmed, this would be a significant step forward towards excess heat reproducibility. I wonder if a Negative Temperature Coefficient is more than a marker of cold fusion but is also a precondition for cold fusion. It might be easier to create a NTC on a surface instead of inside a material and this might explain why powders have been better at producing heat consistently. Harry
Re: [Vo]:Simple, even simple-minded tests can be a great help in understanding these things
On Fri, Jan 6, 2012 at 8:06 PM, Mark Iverson-ZeroPoint zeropo...@charter.net wrote: She’s an insignificant troll… nothing more. Was that a calculated statement? Your behavior is so intelligent and dignified statement, Mark. You should be proud of it and of yourself.
