Re: Good dealer - bad dealer
I couldn't agree with Tim more. I'm afraid a shopfront retailer and a website/mobile phone retailer are simply NOT comparable. And I think the list should lay off the thinly veiled whinges about our shopfront retailers. Do we want shopfront retailers for the mac or don't we? Hey, there will be good and bad stories about every dealer, but if they are no good they will sink under their own weight without any help from WAMUG members. And I really don't like the idea of any postings to this sort of list about our shopfront retailers - it is too open to abuse and planted stories. Dudley Gager Declaration of interest: 1. I have never met Daniel Macwizardry and I have no connection with any retailer shopfront or otherwise. 2. I have had perfectly adequate service from various retailers over many years going back to a 1985 Random Access in Collins St Melbourne. 3. I have had wonderful help from this list on numerous occasions. On 05/08/2004, at 10:45 PM, Tim Law wrote: Hi, I'm one of the obviously large band of Macwizardry supporters, but I'd like to add a note of caution about the polling to ensure, pardon the pun, apples are compared with apples. One of Daniel's strengths as I have experienced, is his personalised service coming to home or office when needed. It's great. No question. But as far as I know he doesn't have a showroom or staff. Now this isn't a weakness if people know 'kind of' what they want. But what about people who need to 'see' what is on offer from Apple and need to go into a shop, or are new to Apple customers? Whilst it is entirely fair to expect a high level of personalised service and quality advice from a shop, it's a bit tough on them to be compared with someone who doesn't have the shop part of the business to contend with. I might be digging myself a hole here, but all I am trying to point out is that whatever survey is done needs to be fair to the various styles of businesses around. We need the shops, and we need the Daniels. Let the survey reflect that - especially if it's going to be a nationwide exercise. Thanks Tim -- The WA Macintosh User Group Mailing List -- Archives - http://www.wamug.org.au/mailinglist/archives.shtml Guidelines - http://www.wamug.org.au/mailinglist/guidelines.shtml Unsubscribe - mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] WAMUG is powered by Stalker CommuniGatePro
Re: Good dealer - bad dealer
Weighing in on the award debate: I think it is a good idea, but: 1. I think entry should be limited to people who have purchased a product in the last 12 months. 2. They can only cast a vote for the retailer where they purchased if they think they got excellent service from that retailer. 3. It should be limited to WA. I guess I would want to stop people from voting for who they think is best based on a purchase they made years ago. The only people who should be in the vote are active purchasers. The ones with the larger stores will have more of a chance of winning; but then they have the larger stores, etc. Or perhaps there could be another way to make it equitable in terms of tallying votes; but: 1. I don't care about stores outside of WA; I am interested in my local options 2. I don't think people who don't purchase should be casting a vote; what are they basing it on? Nat
Re: Good dealer - bad dealer
Hi Tim Before any surveys are run we would really need to open up discussions on the topic. I agree that there are all types of resellers like Daniel who would be shut out of competition if we weren't careful about doing this just right. One solution I see is having various categories eg Best Personal Service, Best Supporter of MUG's, Best Range of Products, etc This would ensure all the people who deserve recognition get it. Apple Resellers have their own awards for most sales and other corporate type criteria. The awards should be kept separate from corporate dollars and truly display the choices of actual MUG members. As Mathew pointed out If nothing else, it would make the resellers more receptive to the goals of MUGs. I also see it as a chance for all the Australian Mac User Groups to work together and that has to be good for everyone. Thanks Greg Sharp Australian Mac Users Group (AUSMUG) [EMAIL PROTECTED] On 6/8/04 12:45 AM, Tim Law [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi, I'm one of the obviously large band of Macwizardry supporters, but I'd like to add a note of caution about the polling to ensure, pardon the pun, apples are compared with apples. One of Daniel's strengths as I have experienced, is his personalised service coming to home or office when needed. It's great. No question. But as far as I know he doesn't have a showroom or staff. Now this isn't a weakness if people know 'kind of' what they want. But what about people who need to 'see' what is on offer from Apple and need to go into a shop, or are new to Apple customers? Whilst it is entirely fair to expect a high level of personalised service and quality advice from a shop, it's a bit tough on them to be compared with someone who doesn't have the shop part of the business to contend with. I might be digging myself a hole here, but all I am trying to point out is that whatever survey is done needs to be fair to the various styles of businesses around. We need the shops, and we need the Daniels. Let the survey reflect that - especially if it's going to be a nationwide exercise. Thanks Tim -- The WA Macintosh User Group Mailing List -- Archives - http://www.wamug.org.au/mailinglist/archives.shtml Guidelines - http://www.wamug.org.au/mailinglist/guidelines.shtml Unsubscribe - mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] WAMUG is powered by Stalker CommuniGatePro
Re: Good dealer - bad dealer
Tim, you have made an important point that highlights how it can be harder for the bricks mortar Apple shops to compete in this arena - but I don't think it is necessarily impossible. The advent of web research and online comparisons and communities such as WAMUG poses challenges but also opportunities for them. When a retailer's overheads introduce a price disparity into the equation added to customers' expectations of unlimited unpaid support - you can find it can be hard to maintain quality service and keep good people on staff. (I know that the amount of turn-over of sales staff in the Apple Resellers I used to work for made it very difficult at times). The difficulties of trying to compete in this business is only too obvious when you look at the number of Apple shops going out of business or changing hands all the time - Of the 5 Apple resellers I used to work for, 4 of them died or changed hands while I was working for them (I promise it wasn't my fault!! - this was during the dark pre-Steve Jobs Return days!) - and none of them exist anymore. And yet there is definitely a need for the public face that Apple Resellers provide particularly as Apple doesn't have any company-owned Apple Stores Down-Under. The mantle does indeed fall on the often under-appreciated Apple Retailer to provide the Apple Experience in the flesh for the unwashed masses. I would however stand by my point that from the point of view of this group (WAMUG) these very-same Apple shops could do a lot better in addressing what is in many ways a different audience than the general public - but one they could be reaping benefits from nonetheless. As such, the experiences related by MUG members are I think quite valid in this context and should pose a helpful wake-up call for more Apple Retailers to build relationships with the very same Mac enthusiasts who could be referring so much business their way (and shouldering so much of their support load as well!). I also wanted to add to my earlier email the slightly different subject of Apple Authorised Hardware Repairers - the service that I and quite a few other Curtin staff have received from Stuart at Desktop Applications (now I believe part of Team Digital) has been head and shoulders above that of some other Apple Resellers in Perth. Also, the service that Keith Palmer from Zytech gave over the years supplying 3rd party gear over the web was always very fast and low cost and his contributions on the WAMUG email list were always very welcome. (haven't had an opportunity yet to experience Zytech's service now that Greg has taken over!) -Mart -- Martin Hill, Digital Media Specialist Information Management Services, Curtin University of Technology mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED], web: http://is.curtin.edu.au/ims.cfm Mb: 0417-967-969 wk: (08)9266-3101 Fax: (08)9266-3826 From: Tim Law [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Thu, 05 Aug 2004 22:45:17 +0800 To: WAMUG Mailing List wamug@wamug.org.au Subject: Re: Good dealer - bad dealer Hi, I'm one of the obviously large band of Macwizardry supporters, but I'd like to add a note of caution about the polling to ensure, pardon the pun, apples are compared with apples. One of Daniel's strengths as I have experienced, is his personalised service coming to home or office when needed. It's great. No question. But as far as I know he doesn't have a showroom or staff. Now this isn't a weakness if people know 'kind of' what they want. But what about people who need to 'see' what is on offer from Apple and need to go into a shop, or are new to Apple customers? Whilst it is entirely fair to expect a high level of personalised service and quality advice from a shop, it's a bit tough on them to be compared with someone who doesn't have the shop part of the business to contend with. I might be digging myself a hole here, but all I am trying to point out is that whatever survey is done needs to be fair to the various styles of businesses around. We need the shops, and we need the Daniels. Let the survey reflect that - especially if it's going to be a nationwide exercise. Thanks Tim -- The WA Macintosh User Group Mailing List -- Archives - http://www.wamug.org.au/mailinglist/archives.shtml Guidelines - http://www.wamug.org.au/mailinglist/guidelines.shtml Unsubscribe - mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] WAMUG is powered by Stalker CommuniGatePro
Re: Good dealer - bad dealer
Hi Dudley, On Thu, 5 Aug 2004 11:10 pm, you wrote: I couldn't agree with Tim more. I'm afraid a shopfront retailer and a website/mobile phone retailer are simply NOT comparable. But receiving bad service is. Daniel worked at the original AppleCentre in Cannington, where he served almost all the people that still buy from him now. I´m all for having a storefront, but like most people on this list I don´t tolerate poor service when laying out my hard earned cash. And I think the list should lay off the thinly veiled whinges about our shopfront retailers. Do we want shopfront retailers for the mac or don't we? This is nothing compared to the bagging this list dished out when I was working at Random Access. People then named the store and the particular staff member! At the moment it is insinuated and no store is mentioned. Hey, there will be good and bad stories about every dealer, but if they are no good they will sink under their own weight without any help from WAMUG members. Which is why the awards will be good for those who do provide excellent service. From what I can gather there aren´t any awards for poor service :-) And I really don't like the idea of any postings to this sort of list about our shopfront retailers - it is too open to abuse and planted stories. That´s fine, but what if there were a lot of Mac users getting ripped off by a retailer, whether it would be a shopfront or phone/web retailer. Are we going to continue to be ripped off, or should someone say something? You will find that all of the retailers are on this list, so they all know what the general feeling is. In one way it does help if someone gets bagged - at least they have the opportunity to defend themselves and rectify the problem. I did this with RA and had a number of WAMUG members come in to Nedlands or Cannington, who were pleasantly surprised with the new level of service they received. What would be worse if no one said anything, but decided not to go back to the store. The store would have no feedback as to why people weren´t returning to buy at the store. It works both ways I think with *constructive* feedback! Seeya Rod! -- -- From Rod´s Linux Box
Re: Good dealer - bad dealer
On 05/08/2004, at 11:10 PM, Dudley Gager wrote: I couldn't agree with Tim more. I'm afraid a shopfront retailer and a website/mobile phone retailer are simply NOT comparable. While I do agree that shops and owner operators are not generally comparable there is one point that levels it out a bit. People like Daniel are generally prohibited from selling Apple products because they don't have a shop. That said... It would certainly be amusing if the organization that won the award was not actually allowed to sell Apple product in the first place. Additionally, there is nothing stopping those places with shops from offering exactly the same type of service as Daniel. Case Point. We run four very large Xerox printers. These things are big and heavy. To service them, we get someone to come out on-site. We recently had a Perth based reseller contact us about servicing these printers. They were able to fix them cheaper, but we had to take the printer in to them. There is absolutely no way I am going to send one of these printers halfway across town on the back of a ute. Consequently we pay MORE by going to an owner operator, than for taking it to a reseller. The service and convenience is very much worth it. (BTW, it's not Daniel who services our printers though it would certainly be fun to watch him try and do it.) - Matt
Re: Good dealer - bad dealer and Re: More bouquets for Daniel
Daniel Kerr wrote: Thank you all for the nice praises and comments,..I do appreciate it. Your support is why MacWizardry is still around and will continue to be for a long time to come! And I am glad I can offer the service and support that you enjoy,..I enjoy it as well! The reason I love doing what I do! I get to help people and use a Mac all the time and push how great they are! What more could you want!! I'll go sit down now before my head gets too big to fit out the door,...nah that won't happen as I have people who keep me in my place! :o) (You know who you are) :o) hehehe. Thanks again all! Enjoy! Kind Regards Daniel --- Daniel Kerr MacWizardry Phone: 0414 795 960 Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Web: http://www.macwizardry.com.au **For everything Macintosh** -- The WA Macintosh User Group Mailing List -- Archives - http://www.wamug.org.au/mailinglist/archives.shtml Guidelines - http://www.wamug.org.au/mailinglist/guidelines.shtml Unsubscribe - mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] WAMUG is powered by Stalker CommuniGatePro I just hope you are getting enough sun and fresh air Daniel ;o) Cheers
Re: Good dealer - bad dealer
Thanks very much for all the replies, public and private, to my question about Apple dealers. I think its obvious who I will be recommending to my friend. In fact, if I had known that Daniel could supply new Macs, I would probably not have asked in the first place. What was refreshing was the vast majority of replies were positive recommendations. Mike Fuller
Subject: Re: Good dealer - bad dealer
Hi all, Thanks Mart - I was waiting for a lead to join into the conversation. I think service is the one thing that sets businesses apart, and more than that its attitude. If the right attitude is displayed then service follows along with the return business. The real measure is not just how well a business can sell a product at a good price and delivery but its efforts in resolving any problems - as we all know its not a matter of if they arise, but when. TNT Greg www.zytech.com.au PO Box 758, Bunbury WA 6230 Ph: (08) 9721 1125 Fx: (08) 9721 1126 Mob: 0423 558 636 The online data storage technology store
Re: Good dealer - bad dealer
just make sure you get the mac including, software (system) and all! the necessary updates, i was in digilife mt hawthorn buying a powerbook and ended up with a unworkable machine, !!i had to pay for updates to get the powerbook working !! James On 05/08/2004, at 8:12, Mike Fuller wrote: I will be assisting a friend to purchase a new Mac in the near future and would like to get a handle on the dealers in and around Perth. Could members list who they would recommend and, perhaps privately, who they would definitely not recommend. This friend had a good experience with one dealer but, as he lives south of Armadale and the dealer is at the opposite end of Perth (easy to guess who), he would prefer someone a bit closer if they give similar service. Thanks, Mike Fuller -- The WA Macintosh User Group Mailing List -- Archives - http://www.wamug.org.au/mailinglist/archives.shtml Guidelines - http://www.wamug.org.au/mailinglist/guidelines.shtml Unsubscribe - mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] WAMUG is powered by Stalker CommuniGatePro Bayswater WA 6053 +618 9370 5307, 0414 421 132 http://www.iinet.net.au/~saddas
Re: Good dealer - bad dealer
On 05/08/2004, at 8:12 AM, Mike Fuller wrote: I will be assisting a friend to purchase a new Mac in the near future and would like to get a handle on the dealers in and around Perth. Could members list who they would recommend and, perhaps privately, who they would definitely not recommend. This friend had a good experience with one dealer but, as he lives south of Armadale and the dealer is at the opposite end of Perth (easy to guess who), he would prefer someone a bit closer if they give similar service. Thanks, Mike Fuller Hi Mike, You can't beat Daniel Kerr 'MacWizardry' for service and support of any Computer he sells you. He will also give you the best price he can. I have been using Daniel for everything Mac for a number of years now and have no hesitation in recommending him to people. Phone: 0414 795 960 Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Web: http://www.macwizardry.com.au **For everything Macintosh** Cheers, Ronni When Microsoft asks you, Where do you want to go today? Tell them, Apple!
Re: Good dealer - bad dealer
Mike Fuller wrote: I will be assisting a friend to purchase a new Mac in the near future and would like to get a handle on the dealers in and around Perth. Could members list who they would recommend and, perhaps privately, who they would definitely not recommend. This friend had a good experience with one dealer but, as he lives south of Armadale and the dealer is at the opposite end of Perth (easy to guess who), he would prefer someone a bit closer if they give similar service. Thanks, Mike Fuller Daniel Kerr helped me when there was no reason for him to do so, apart from generating goodwill. Which *works* by the way! He gets my tick for service and attitude. Cheers Paul
Re: Good dealer - bad dealer
He gets my tick for service and attitude. Hmm... Perhaps the WAMUG committee should look at something like organising a people's choice dealer of the year award? Might be a good way to encourage the dealers to interact with WAMUG. Have fun, Shay -- === Shay Telfer Perth, Western Australia Technomancer Join Team Sungroper in the Opinions for hire [POQ] 2005 World Solar Challenge [EMAIL PROTECTED] fnord http://sungroper.asn.au/
Re: Good dealer - bad dealer
My vote also goes to Daniel Kerr from MacWizardry http://www.macwizardry.com.au. He is very knowledgeable, always very fast with his responses via email or phone, can get just about any product in, is one of the cheapest suppliers of third party gear around and comes to every WAMUG meeting and is always giving away free prizes to everyone at every meeting(!) - not to mention his email summaries of meetings every month. How could you be better than that?! My wife and I have bought heaps of gear from him over the last year or more - I just hope he doesn't burn himself out! - Thanks Dan The other Mac resellers in town need to learn a few lessons from Daniel (and Rod Lavington as well - Hi Rod!). As someone who used to work as Mac support for 5 different Apple Resellers before Curtin, I could never understand why the sales staff at the companies I worked for were never interested in coming along to WAMUG meetings or using the WAMUG list - The large captive audience of Mac users (keen to buy gear for goodness sake!) that WAMUG and the list encompasses is surely fertile ground for sales by those resellers ready to tune in and contribute to the list and come to meetings with the freebies and good quality service that will always get them noticed. -Mart -- Martin Hill, Digital Media Specialist Information Management Services, Curtin University of Technology mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED], web: http://is.curtin.edu.au/ims.cfm Mb: 0417-967-969 wk: (08)9266-3101 Fax: (08)9266-3826 From: Mike Fuller [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Thu, 05 Aug 2004 08:12:03 +0800 To: WAMUG Mailing List wamug@wamug.org.au Subject: Good dealer - bad dealer I will be assisting a friend to purchase a new Mac in the near future and would like to get a handle on the dealers in and around Perth. Could members list who they would recommend and, perhaps privately, who they would definitely not recommend. This friend had a good experience with one dealer but, as he lives south of Armadale and the dealer is at the opposite end of Perth (easy to guess who), he would prefer someone a bit closer if they give similar service. Thanks, Mike Fuller -- The WA Macintosh User Group Mailing List -- Archives - http://www.wamug.org.au/mailinglist/archives.shtml Guidelines - http://www.wamug.org.au/mailinglist/guidelines.shtml Unsubscribe - mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] WAMUG is powered by Stalker CommuniGatePro
Re: Good dealer - bad dealer and Re: More bouquets for Daniel
Thank you all for the nice praises and comments,..I do appreciate it. Your support is why MacWizardry is still around and will continue to be for a long time to come! And I am glad I can offer the service and support that you enjoy,..I enjoy it as well! The reason I love doing what I do! I get to help people and use a Mac all the time and push how great they are! What more could you want!! I'll go sit down now before my head gets too big to fit out the door,...nah that won't happen as I have people who keep me in my place! :o) (You know who you are) :o) hehehe. Thanks again all! Enjoy! Kind Regards Daniel --- Daniel Kerr MacWizardry Phone: 0414 795 960 Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Web: http://www.macwizardry.com.au **For everything Macintosh**
Re: Good dealer - bad dealer
A very good idea Shay. I would give it my support. Ken. W On 5/8/04 10:35 AM, Shay Telfer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: He gets my tick for service and attitude. Hmm... Perhaps the WAMUG committee should look at something like organising a people's choice dealer of the year award? Might be a good way to encourage the dealers to interact with WAMUG. Have fun, Shay
Re: Good dealer - bad dealer
Just Contact Daniel Kerr at MacWizardry
Re: Good dealer - bad dealer
Hi All I would like to say that I have had great support and service from both Daniel at MacWizardry and Mike, Nick and Rod (when he was there) up at Joondalup Apple centre. I really appreciate it from both businesses. Thankyou guys. Chris Burton
Re: Good dealer - bad dealer
On 5/08/2004 10:20 PM, Chris Burton [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi All I would like to say that I have had great support and service from both Daniel at MacWizardry and Mike, Nick and Rod (when he was there) up at Joondalup Apple centre. I really appreciate it from both businesses. Thankyou guys. Chris Burton Rod's back at Joondalup, but you'll only see him there on Saturday's. And yes all the people at AppleCentre Joondalup are great. :o) Kind Regards Daniel --- Daniel Kerr MacWizardry Phone: 0414 795 960 Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Web: http://www.macwizardry.com.au **For everything Macintosh**
Re: Good dealer - bad dealer
Hi, I'm one of the obviously large band of Macwizardry supporters, but I'd like to add a note of caution about the polling to ensure, pardon the pun, apples are compared with apples. One of Daniel's strengths as I have experienced, is his personalised service coming to home or office when needed. It's great. No question. But as far as I know he doesn't have a showroom or staff. Now this isn't a weakness if people know 'kind of' what they want. But what about people who need to 'see' what is on offer from Apple and need to go into a shop, or are new to Apple customers? Whilst it is entirely fair to expect a high level of personalised service and quality advice from a shop, it's a bit tough on them to be compared with someone who doesn't have the shop part of the business to contend with. I might be digging myself a hole here, but all I am trying to point out is that whatever survey is done needs to be fair to the various styles of businesses around. We need the shops, and we need the Daniels. Let the survey reflect that - especially if it's going to be a nationwide exercise. Thanks Tim
