Re: [Wikimedia-l] [Wiki Loves Monuments] Wiki Loves Monuments in Italy largely blocked by WMF fundraising
There's a more general problem here we should fix: We already know that effectiveness of any single banner drops off dramatically after the first few views. So there's rarely a reason to run a continuous banner -- certainly not if there are other banners to run. We should improve the effectiveness of all banners by showing them conservatively. If most pageloads are completely banner free, banners will likely have a greater impact when they are shown. And we should be able to measure this: tracking how effective each % of visibility is at getting clickthroughs for each banner. Making that sort of data immediately visible to everyone who designs banners would be a great step forward. Are WLM projects doing A/B testing of banner messages? Do you have access to A/B test frameworks and results? SJ On Tue, Aug 18, 2015 at 3:18 PM, Nathan nawr...@gmail.com wrote: On Tue, Aug 18, 2015 at 2:59 PM, Romaine Wiki romaine.w...@gmail.com wrote: Hi Antanana, And I forgot to mention, this same issue existed in 2014 as well, with also there the downside effects. This subject is of banners has been discussed internally with the local Wiki Loves Monuments team, after I tried to gave some insights in the matter. I think this is done so because me and others have always thought and assumed that it is possible to find a solution with understanding of both sides. With these outcomes I think I can safely say that that assumption and thought can't be considered realistic. I think it would be better in future to have the community decide somehow how they perceive this matter. After all, they create the content of Wikipedia and bear the bunt as result of it. Romaine It seems like there are other communication channels you could take advantage of - other types of banners, bot-distributed talk page messages, WMF-assisted mass e-mail campaigns, social networking messages (FB, Twitter, etc.) and so on. Is it really true that having to share banners with fundraising will result in an unavoidable loss of 90% of contributors? ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe -- Samuel Klein @metasj w:user:sj +1 617 529 4266 ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
Re: [Wikimedia-l] [Wiki Loves Monuments] Wiki Loves Monuments in Italy largely blocked by WMF fundraising
It has been my experience that site banners are the best way to reach casual readers who are not already integrated into the projects and existing communication channels. This is why the Fundraising team run banners, rather than begging for money through Facebook and targeted talk page messages, I would imagine. The communications channels you're referring to are excellent for reaching existing contributors, but when you're trying to reach new or casual contributors, a big banner at the top of articles can't be beat. Cheers, Craig On 19 August 2015 at 05:18, Nathan nawr...@gmail.com wrote: On Tue, Aug 18, 2015 at 2:59 PM, Romaine Wiki romaine.w...@gmail.com wrote: Hi Antanana, And I forgot to mention, this same issue existed in 2014 as well, with also there the downside effects. This subject is of banners has been discussed internally with the local Wiki Loves Monuments team, after I tried to gave some insights in the matter. I think this is done so because me and others have always thought and assumed that it is possible to find a solution with understanding of both sides. With these outcomes I think I can safely say that that assumption and thought can't be considered realistic. I think it would be better in future to have the community decide somehow how they perceive this matter. After all, they create the content of Wikipedia and bear the bunt as result of it. Romaine It seems like there are other communication channels you could take advantage of - other types of banners, bot-distributed talk page messages, WMF-assisted mass e-mail campaigns, social networking messages (FB, Twitter, etc.) and so on. Is it really true that having to share banners with fundraising will result in an unavoidable loss of 90% of contributors? ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
Re: [Wikimedia-l] [Wiki Loves Monuments] Wiki Loves Monuments in Italy largely blocked by WMF fundraising
On 19 August 2015 at 14:26, Sam Klein sjkl...@hcs.harvard.edu wrote: There's a more general problem here we should fix: We already know that effectiveness of any single banner drops off dramatically after the first few views. So there's rarely a reason to run a continuous banner -- certainly not if there are other banners to run. I think we should be cautious about using our fundraising experience to predict the efficiency of 'delayed call-to-action' banners like WLM - to my mind they seem to function in quite different roles. The fundraising banner is calling for an immediate action. You see it, and you either donate or you don't. If you decide not to donate, you probably won't decide to donate on seeing it tomorrow, either; while if you have donated, you're probably not going to donate again. So the banner being repeated doesn't gain us much, and it has progressively less value on the third, fourth, fifth appearances. There are relatively few people who see a fundraising banner and decide I'll sleep on it, then come back tomorrow and donate. And if they *do*, well - there's a donate link on every page, once they're looking for it. However, WLM is calling for a delayed action - go off, do something, and come back again to tell us about it. The most desired outcome is probably that a previously uninvolved person will see it, click through, think that sounds fun, and go off to take some photos - after all, it's running all month, they can do it at the weekend. A few days later they come back, and want to upload their photos... but if the banner's not there on Wikipedia, they won't really know where to go. They might not remember the name (Wiki something?), making it hard to search for the contest, and they probably didn't bookmark the WLM pages. There isn't anything else on the page that would help to take them there, and if they're not involved in the projects already they probably won't know where the information's likely to be. If we can't make sure they can find WLM easily when they return, then we've wasted the original call to action, we've wasted the potential contributions, *and*, most importantly, we've wasted their time and goodwill. I think this difference in intended response styles makes it hard to generalise from the diminishing returns experienced on fundraising. Yes, a repeated banner will get progressively diminishing clickthroughs. But with WLM, those second clickthroughs in some ways provide the value to the first clickthrough - they need to return to make the campaign a success, which isn't really a concern for fundraising. We need to make sure that that channel is open and visible in some way when they come back. Andrew. -- - Andrew Gray andrew.g...@dunelm.org.uk ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
Re: [Wikimedia-l] GA Stats using Wikimedia Stats
Hi Tito, Wikistats can collect pageviews for a certain category and its subcategories. In English Wikipedia I just ran the script for categories WikiProject_Featured_articles and WikiProject_Good_articles Featured articles, 1 pageviews 2 categories included 1 http://stats.wikimedia.org/wikimedia/pageviews/categorized/wp-en/2015-06/pageviews_wp-en_cat_WikiProject_Featured_articles_2015-06.html 2 http://stats.wikimedia.org/wikimedia/pageviews/categorized/wp-en/2015-06/categories_wp-en_cat_WikiProject_Featured_articles_2015-06.html Good articles, 1 pageviews 2 categories included 1 http://stats.wikimedia.org/wikimedia/pageviews/categorized/wp-en/2015-06/pageviews_wp-en_cat_WikiProject_Good_articles_2015-06.html 2 http://stats.wikimedia.org/wikimedia/pageviews/categorized/wp-en/2015-06/categories_wp-en_cat_WikiProject_Good_articles_2015-06.html I you have similar categories for the Indian languages I can try to parse those as well (I say 'try' as I vaguely remember an open bug with non western letters in category name not being parsed well, I might need to look into that) Cheers, Erik -Original Message- From: wikimedia-l-boun...@lists.wikimedia.org [mailto:wikimedia-l-boun...@lists.wikimedia.org] On Behalf Of Asaf Bartov Sent: Tuesday, August 18, 2015 4:39 To: Wikimedia Mailing List Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] GA Stats using Wikimedia Stats No. That site does not provide that data. A. On Mon, Aug 17, 2015 at 4:33 AM, Tito Dutta trulyt...@gmail.com wrote: Hello, Is there any way to find Good article stats/details (of mainly Indian Language Wikis) using http://stats.wikimedia.org/? ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe -- Asaf Bartov Wikimedia Foundation http://www.wikimediafoundation.org Imagine a world in which every single human being can freely share in the sum of all knowledge. Help us make it a reality! https://donate.wikimedia.org ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
Re: [Wikimedia-l] [Wiki Loves Monuments] Wiki Loves Monuments in Italy largely blocked by WMF fundraising
Yes, Andrew is right. Navigation is a very important focus point of organising every Wiki Loves Monuments. The complexity of the navigation is that MediaWiki and the whole group of Wikimedia wikis is not designed for navigation, but designed for showing content. In the past eight years small improvements have been made in this field, but in general speaking it is still not easy to navigate for the majority of the people. Romaine 2015-08-19 20:45 GMT+02:00 Andrea Zanni zanni.andre...@gmail.com: I think Andrew is right: the WLM banner serves as a pointer, and it's very easy to remember go on Wikipedia and click into the banner on the top. It's much more difficult to remember the strange name of the contest (in Italy it's still called Wiki Loves Monuments, even if it's English). And of course we do not have good analytics for the banner: nobody knows homw many page views there are in a single wiki per day, so we cannot count the clickthroughs (which we have as the link is on a WLM landing page). Aubrey On Wed, Aug 19, 2015 at 6:02 PM, Andrew Gray andrew.g...@dunelm.org.uk wrote: On 19 August 2015 at 14:26, Sam Klein sjkl...@hcs.harvard.edu wrote: There's a more general problem here we should fix: We already know that effectiveness of any single banner drops off dramatically after the first few views. So there's rarely a reason to run a continuous banner -- certainly not if there are other banners to run. I think we should be cautious about using our fundraising experience to predict the efficiency of 'delayed call-to-action' banners like WLM - to my mind they seem to function in quite different roles. The fundraising banner is calling for an immediate action. You see it, and you either donate or you don't. If you decide not to donate, you probably won't decide to donate on seeing it tomorrow, either; while if you have donated, you're probably not going to donate again. So the banner being repeated doesn't gain us much, and it has progressively less value on the third, fourth, fifth appearances. There are relatively few people who see a fundraising banner and decide I'll sleep on it, then come back tomorrow and donate. And if they *do*, well - there's a donate link on every page, once they're looking for it. However, WLM is calling for a delayed action - go off, do something, and come back again to tell us about it. The most desired outcome is probably that a previously uninvolved person will see it, click through, think that sounds fun, and go off to take some photos - after all, it's running all month, they can do it at the weekend. A few days later they come back, and want to upload their photos... but if the banner's not there on Wikipedia, they won't really know where to go. They might not remember the name (Wiki something?), making it hard to search for the contest, and they probably didn't bookmark the WLM pages. There isn't anything else on the page that would help to take them there, and if they're not involved in the projects already they probably won't know where the information's likely to be. If we can't make sure they can find WLM easily when they return, then we've wasted the original call to action, we've wasted the potential contributions, *and*, most importantly, we've wasted their time and goodwill. I think this difference in intended response styles makes it hard to generalise from the diminishing returns experienced on fundraising. Yes, a repeated banner will get progressively diminishing clickthroughs. But with WLM, those second clickthroughs in some ways provide the value to the first clickthrough - they need to return to make the campaign a success, which isn't really a concern for fundraising. We need to make sure that that channel is open and visible in some way when they come back. Andrew. -- - Andrew Gray andrew.g...@dunelm.org.uk ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
Re: [Wikimedia-l] [Wiki Loves Monuments] Wiki Loves Monuments in Italy largely blocked by WMF fundraising
I can understand the frustration that members of WMIT are expressing here, but I also see Fundraising's point. I wonder if there are not some other options that could be considered. For example, instead of a banner, perhaps a big bright button on the sidebar that says Upload images for Wiki Loves Monuments here! may be technically feasible. It's not quite the equivalent of a banner, but it does address the wayfinding issue at least. (I think that's possibly the biggest downside of not having the WLM banners in rotation.) Let's give ourselves permission to think outside the box a bit here; both of these activities are valuable and important to our movement, each of them have different but viable reasons for wanting to proceed during that specific period. There are a lot of smart people reading this mailing list. I'd like to think between the several-hundred of us we might be able to come up with a solution that works to accommodate both groups. Risker/Anne On 20 August 2015 at 01:19, Romaine Wiki romaine.w...@gmail.com wrote: Yes, Andrew is right. Navigation is a very important focus point of organising every Wiki Loves Monuments. The complexity of the navigation is that MediaWiki and the whole group of Wikimedia wikis is not designed for navigation, but designed for showing content. In the past eight years small improvements have been made in this field, but in general speaking it is still not easy to navigate for the majority of the people. Romaine 2015-08-19 20:45 GMT+02:00 Andrea Zanni zanni.andre...@gmail.com: I think Andrew is right: the WLM banner serves as a pointer, and it's very easy to remember go on Wikipedia and click into the banner on the top. It's much more difficult to remember the strange name of the contest (in Italy it's still called Wiki Loves Monuments, even if it's English). And of course we do not have good analytics for the banner: nobody knows homw many page views there are in a single wiki per day, so we cannot count the clickthroughs (which we have as the link is on a WLM landing page). Aubrey On Wed, Aug 19, 2015 at 6:02 PM, Andrew Gray andrew.g...@dunelm.org.uk wrote: On 19 August 2015 at 14:26, Sam Klein sjkl...@hcs.harvard.edu wrote: There's a more general problem here we should fix: We already know that effectiveness of any single banner drops off dramatically after the first few views. So there's rarely a reason to run a continuous banner -- certainly not if there are other banners to run. I think we should be cautious about using our fundraising experience to predict the efficiency of 'delayed call-to-action' banners like WLM - to my mind they seem to function in quite different roles. The fundraising banner is calling for an immediate action. You see it, and you either donate or you don't. If you decide not to donate, you probably won't decide to donate on seeing it tomorrow, either; while if you have donated, you're probably not going to donate again. So the banner being repeated doesn't gain us much, and it has progressively less value on the third, fourth, fifth appearances. There are relatively few people who see a fundraising banner and decide I'll sleep on it, then come back tomorrow and donate. And if they *do*, well - there's a donate link on every page, once they're looking for it. However, WLM is calling for a delayed action - go off, do something, and come back again to tell us about it. The most desired outcome is probably that a previously uninvolved person will see it, click through, think that sounds fun, and go off to take some photos - after all, it's running all month, they can do it at the weekend. A few days later they come back, and want to upload their photos... but if the banner's not there on Wikipedia, they won't really know where to go. They might not remember the name (Wiki something?), making it hard to search for the contest, and they probably didn't bookmark the WLM pages. There isn't anything else on the page that would help to take them there, and if they're not involved in the projects already they probably won't know where the information's likely to be. If we can't make sure they can find WLM easily when they return, then we've wasted the original call to action, we've wasted the potential contributions, *and*, most importantly, we've wasted their time and goodwill. I think this difference in intended response styles makes it hard to generalise from the diminishing returns experienced on fundraising. Yes, a repeated banner will get progressively diminishing clickthroughs. But with WLM, those second clickthroughs in some ways provide the value to the first clickthrough - they need to return to make the campaign a success, which isn't really a concern for fundraising. We need to make sure that that channel is open and visible in
Re: [Wikimedia-l] [Wiki Loves Monuments] Wiki Loves Monuments in Italy largely blocked by WMF fundraising
Hi! I think one point is skipped, before this should be discussed at all: why is it not possible to move a banner to another month? This question needs an answer first. Each time this problem occurs, multiple years now in different occasions, the fundraising team says they can't move the banner, but they have never provided any reasonable explanation for that at all. Because of the fundraising banner, this community project and the content of both Wikipedia and Commons experience a huge loss. What makes the loss is worth it for the movement? That is the core question that needs an answer first in my opinion. Romaine 2015-08-20 7:26 GMT+02:00 Risker risker...@gmail.com: I can understand the frustration that members of WMIT are expressing here, but I also see Fundraising's point. I wonder if there are not some other options that could be considered. For example, instead of a banner, perhaps a big bright button on the sidebar that says Upload images for Wiki Loves Monuments here! may be technically feasible. It's not quite the equivalent of a banner, but it does address the wayfinding issue at least. (I think that's possibly the biggest downside of not having the WLM banners in rotation.) Let's give ourselves permission to think outside the box a bit here; both of these activities are valuable and important to our movement, each of them have different but viable reasons for wanting to proceed during that specific period. There are a lot of smart people reading this mailing list. I'd like to think between the several-hundred of us we might be able to come up with a solution that works to accommodate both groups. Risker/Anne On 20 August 2015 at 01:19, Romaine Wiki romaine.w...@gmail.com wrote: Yes, Andrew is right. Navigation is a very important focus point of organising every Wiki Loves Monuments. The complexity of the navigation is that MediaWiki and the whole group of Wikimedia wikis is not designed for navigation, but designed for showing content. In the past eight years small improvements have been made in this field, but in general speaking it is still not easy to navigate for the majority of the people. Romaine 2015-08-19 20:45 GMT+02:00 Andrea Zanni zanni.andre...@gmail.com: I think Andrew is right: the WLM banner serves as a pointer, and it's very easy to remember go on Wikipedia and click into the banner on the top. It's much more difficult to remember the strange name of the contest (in Italy it's still called Wiki Loves Monuments, even if it's English). And of course we do not have good analytics for the banner: nobody knows homw many page views there are in a single wiki per day, so we cannot count the clickthroughs (which we have as the link is on a WLM landing page). Aubrey On Wed, Aug 19, 2015 at 6:02 PM, Andrew Gray andrew.g...@dunelm.org.uk wrote: On 19 August 2015 at 14:26, Sam Klein sjkl...@hcs.harvard.edu wrote: There's a more general problem here we should fix: We already know that effectiveness of any single banner drops off dramatically after the first few views. So there's rarely a reason to run a continuous banner -- certainly not if there are other banners to run. I think we should be cautious about using our fundraising experience to predict the efficiency of 'delayed call-to-action' banners like WLM - to my mind they seem to function in quite different roles. The fundraising banner is calling for an immediate action. You see it, and you either donate or you don't. If you decide not to donate, you probably won't decide to donate on seeing it tomorrow, either; while if you have donated, you're probably not going to donate again. So the banner being repeated doesn't gain us much, and it has progressively less value on the third, fourth, fifth appearances. There are relatively few people who see a fundraising banner and decide I'll sleep on it, then come back tomorrow and donate. And if they *do*, well - there's a donate link on every page, once they're looking for it. However, WLM is calling for a delayed action - go off, do something, and come back again to tell us about it. The most desired outcome is probably that a previously uninvolved person will see it, click through, think that sounds fun, and go off to take some photos - after all, it's running all month, they can do it at the weekend. A few days later they come back, and want to upload their photos... but if the banner's not there on Wikipedia, they won't really know where to go. They might not remember the name (Wiki something?), making it hard to search for the contest, and they probably didn't bookmark the WLM pages. There isn't anything else on the page that would help to take them there, and if they're not involved in the projects already they
Re: [Wikimedia-l] [Wiki Loves Monuments] Wiki Loves Monuments in Italy largely blocked by WMF fundraising
Any reasons the WLM 'banner' can't become a Main Page panel like the ones on Commons? Il 20/08/2015 07:26, Risker ha scritto: I can understand the frustration that members of WMIT are expressing here, but I also see Fundraising's point. I wonder if there are not some other options that could be considered. For example, instead of a banner, perhaps a big bright button on the sidebar that says Upload images for Wiki Loves Monuments here! may be technically feasible. It's not quite the equivalent of a banner, but it does address the wayfinding issue at least. (I think that's possibly the biggest downside of not having the WLM banners in rotation.) Let's give ourselves permission to think outside the box a bit here; both of these activities are valuable and important to our movement, each of them have different but viable reasons for wanting to proceed during that specific period. There are a lot of smart people reading this mailing list. I'd like to think between the several-hundred of us we might be able to come up with a solution that works to accommodate both groups. Risker/Anne On 20 August 2015 at 01:19, Romaine Wiki romaine.w...@gmail.com wrote: Yes, Andrew is right. Navigation is a very important focus point of organising every Wiki Loves Monuments. The complexity of the navigation is that MediaWiki and the whole group of Wikimedia wikis is not designed for navigation, but designed for showing content. In the past eight years small improvements have been made in this field, but in general speaking it is still not easy to navigate for the majority of the people. Romaine 2015-08-19 20:45 GMT+02:00 Andrea Zanni zanni.andre...@gmail.com: I think Andrew is right: the WLM banner serves as a pointer, and it's very easy to remember go on Wikipedia and click into the banner on the top. It's much more difficult to remember the strange name of the contest (in Italy it's still called Wiki Loves Monuments, even if it's English). And of course we do not have good analytics for the banner: nobody knows homw many page views there are in a single wiki per day, so we cannot count the clickthroughs (which we have as the link is on a WLM landing page). Aubrey On Wed, Aug 19, 2015 at 6:02 PM, Andrew Gray andrew.g...@dunelm.org.uk wrote: On 19 August 2015 at 14:26, Sam Klein sjkl...@hcs.harvard.edu wrote: There's a more general problem here we should fix: We already know that effectiveness of any single banner drops off dramatically after the first few views. So there's rarely a reason to run a continuous banner -- certainly not if there are other banners to run. I think we should be cautious about using our fundraising experience to predict the efficiency of 'delayed call-to-action' banners like WLM - to my mind they seem to function in quite different roles. The fundraising banner is calling for an immediate action. You see it, and you either donate or you don't. If you decide not to donate, you probably won't decide to donate on seeing it tomorrow, either; while if you have donated, you're probably not going to donate again. So the banner being repeated doesn't gain us much, and it has progressively less value on the third, fourth, fifth appearances. There are relatively few people who see a fundraising banner and decide I'll sleep on it, then come back tomorrow and donate. And if they *do*, well - there's a donate link on every page, once they're looking for it. However, WLM is calling for a delayed action - go off, do something, and come back again to tell us about it. The most desired outcome is probably that a previously uninvolved person will see it, click through, think that sounds fun, and go off to take some photos - after all, it's running all month, they can do it at the weekend. A few days later they come back, and want to upload their photos... but if the banner's not there on Wikipedia, they won't really know where to go. They might not remember the name (Wiki something?), making it hard to search for the contest, and they probably didn't bookmark the WLM pages. There isn't anything else on the page that would help to take them there, and if they're not involved in the projects already they probably won't know where the information's likely to be. If we can't make sure they can find WLM easily when they return, then we've wasted the original call to action, we've wasted the potential contributions, *and*, most importantly, we've wasted their time and goodwill. I think this difference in intended response styles makes it hard to generalise from the diminishing returns experienced on fundraising. Yes, a repeated banner will get progressively diminishing clickthroughs. But with WLM, those second clickthroughs in some ways provide the value to the first clickthrough - they need to return to make the campaign a success, which isn't really a concern for fundraising. We need to make sure that that channel is open and visible in some way when they come back. Andrew. -- -
Re: [Wikimedia-l] [Wiki Loves Monuments] Wiki Loves Monuments in Italy largely blocked by WMF fundraising
If a local community wants this, they can create such of course. But I think most visitors from Wikipedia do not visit the Main Page. 2015-08-20 7:41 GMT+02:00 Ricordisamoa ricordisa...@openmailbox.org: Any reasons the WLM 'banner' can't become a Main Page panel like the ones on Commons? Il 20/08/2015 07:26, Risker ha scritto: I can understand the frustration that members of WMIT are expressing here, but I also see Fundraising's point. I wonder if there are not some other options that could be considered. For example, instead of a banner, perhaps a big bright button on the sidebar that says Upload images for Wiki Loves Monuments here! may be technically feasible. It's not quite the equivalent of a banner, but it does address the wayfinding issue at least. (I think that's possibly the biggest downside of not having the WLM banners in rotation.) Let's give ourselves permission to think outside the box a bit here; both of these activities are valuable and important to our movement, each of them have different but viable reasons for wanting to proceed during that specific period. There are a lot of smart people reading this mailing list. I'd like to think between the several-hundred of us we might be able to come up with a solution that works to accommodate both groups. Risker/Anne On 20 August 2015 at 01:19, Romaine Wiki romaine.w...@gmail.com wrote: Yes, Andrew is right. Navigation is a very important focus point of organising every Wiki Loves Monuments. The complexity of the navigation is that MediaWiki and the whole group of Wikimedia wikis is not designed for navigation, but designed for showing content. In the past eight years small improvements have been made in this field, but in general speaking it is still not easy to navigate for the majority of the people. Romaine 2015-08-19 20:45 GMT+02:00 Andrea Zanni zanni.andre...@gmail.com: I think Andrew is right: the WLM banner serves as a pointer, and it's very easy to remember go on Wikipedia and click into the banner on the top. It's much more difficult to remember the strange name of the contest (in Italy it's still called Wiki Loves Monuments, even if it's English). And of course we do not have good analytics for the banner: nobody knows homw many page views there are in a single wiki per day, so we cannot count the clickthroughs (which we have as the link is on a WLM landing page). Aubrey On Wed, Aug 19, 2015 at 6:02 PM, Andrew Gray andrew.g...@dunelm.org.uk wrote: On 19 August 2015 at 14:26, Sam Klein sjkl...@hcs.harvard.edu wrote: There's a more general problem here we should fix: We already know that effectiveness of any single banner drops off dramatically after the first few views. So there's rarely a reason to run a continuous banner -- certainly not if there are other banners to run. I think we should be cautious about using our fundraising experience to predict the efficiency of 'delayed call-to-action' banners like WLM - to my mind they seem to function in quite different roles. The fundraising banner is calling for an immediate action. You see it, and you either donate or you don't. If you decide not to donate, you probably won't decide to donate on seeing it tomorrow, either; while if you have donated, you're probably not going to donate again. So the banner being repeated doesn't gain us much, and it has progressively less value on the third, fourth, fifth appearances. There are relatively few people who see a fundraising banner and decide I'll sleep on it, then come back tomorrow and donate. And if they *do*, well - there's a donate link on every page, once they're looking for it. However, WLM is calling for a delayed action - go off, do something, and come back again to tell us about it. The most desired outcome is probably that a previously uninvolved person will see it, click through, think that sounds fun, and go off to take some photos - after all, it's running all month, they can do it at the weekend. A few days later they come back, and want to upload their photos... but if the banner's not there on Wikipedia, they won't really know where to go. They might not remember the name (Wiki something?), making it hard to search for the contest, and they probably didn't bookmark the WLM pages. There isn't anything else on the page that would help to take them there, and if they're not involved in the projects already they probably won't know where the information's likely to be. If we can't make sure they can find WLM easily when they return, then we've wasted the original call to action, we've wasted the potential contributions, *and*, most importantly, we've wasted their time and goodwill. I think this difference in intended response styles makes it hard to generalise from the diminishing returns experienced on fundraising. Yes, a repeated banner will get progressively diminishing clickthroughs. But with WLM, those
Re: [Wikimedia-l] [Chapters] Wiki Loves Monuments in Italy largely blocked by WMF fundraising
Hi Andrea, thanks for the update. We were in the same situation last year, including all the negative side effects mentioned already. The worst part was to explain our long-standing and important partner the Federal Monuments Office that we can't have the banner time at cruical dates in September (especially the days leading up to our events around the national monuments day in Austria), at a time when all the information material with dates etc. was already printed and distributed. Like you, we decided to come to terms with the situation without causing drama or trouble, but we communicated very clearly and on various channels that we wish for or rather strongly recommend a better planning this year, i.e. an information for the affected countries months and not only weeks or days before the event, so that they they can come up with adequate strategies and plan accordingly. It sounds that - again - this was not the case this year. So, yes indeed - sad news - I really think this could have been avoided to a certain extend. Claudia Am 19.08.2015 um 11:18 schrieb Andrea Zanni: [sorry for cross-posting] Hello everyone. Thanks Romaine for bringing up this issue, because it's good to talk these kind of things together with the whole community. It's a way to improve collaboration, I hope. Yes, this year WLM and FR will split banners in Semptember: we reached an agreement in which * 1-7 September: everyone see a WLM banner * 8-22 September: everyone see a fundraising banner * 23-30 September: the traffic will be split 50/50 between the WLM campaign and the fundraising campaign. (50% of readers will see a fundraising banner and 50% will see the WLM campaign.) * * We asked also a bigger percentage of visibility during the last 2-3 days of September, as they are very important days in terms of number of photo uploads: we'll see if we manage to find an agreement also there. I'd like to declare that the conversation with the fundraising team have been nothing less than polite and contructive: at the same time, there *is* a banner conflict, and we will both suffer from this. Last year (WLM 2014) we had the same problem, but in the end FR decided to leave us the banner for the whole September, but the final days. This year the conflict is on the whole month of September, and WLM in Italy will definitely suffer (as it does also in normal conditions ;-). This is a pity because: * FR decided to use September months ago, and they are now in a rush and cannot really change their plans * WMIT decided to run WLM on September months ago as well, as it has done for the past 4 years. WMIT also declared his plans on WLM in the FDC appplication, reviewed in May. Knowing also that last year there was the same issue, it's fair to say, I hope, that from WMIT part there was no lack of communication. I agree with Maarten that, in the end, it's WMF decision the one that counts. This is why we were firm in stating our position but did not put up a fight (or a scene). We manage to reach a more favorable agreement for WLM (we asked for the first and last week of September, as they are in our opinion the most important). What we plan to do now is discussing the issue also with the Funds Dissemination Committee, as it will impact our goals and figures and metrics. Moreover, we do have sponsors in Italy for WLM, and it will not be easy to explain them if numbers drop dramatically. Lorenzo will explain to you what WLM means in terms of organization and management in Italy. Of course, this is the last time this problem has to happen. If the WMF is committed in running the FR banner in September in Italy (it seems it's the most favorable month), WMIT will have to change WLM and run it in October. I don't see other solutions. I hope this mail cleared a bit the situation. Cheers Andrea Zanni Wikimedia Italia On Wed, Aug 19, 2015 at 10:32 AM, Peter Southwood peter.southw...@telkomsa.net mailto:peter.southw...@telkomsa.net wrote: Is there not a method for time to be booked in advance for these things? Like a year in advance, so projects can be planned properly and not crippled at the last minute? Peter -Original Message- From: wikimedia-l-boun...@lists.wikimedia.org mailto:wikimedia-l-boun...@lists.wikimedia.org [mailto:wikimedia-l-boun...@lists.wikimedia.org mailto:wikimedia-l-boun...@lists.wikimedia.org] On Behalf Of Liam Wyatt Sent: Tuesday, 18 August 2015 10:06 PM To: Wikimedia Mailing List Cc: Wiki Loves Monuments Photograph Competition Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wiki Loves Monuments in Italy largely blocked by WMF fundraising On Tuesday, 18 August 2015, attolippip attolip...@gmail.com mailto:attolip...@gmail.com wrote: Can we get the WMF comments about it publicly? The WMF Fundraising department asked me to submit my own comments and feedback from previous
Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wiki Loves Monuments in Italy largely blocked by WMF fundraising
I can definitely understand your frustration, Romaine. However, if there is a strong operational reason why the Fundraising team can't move the activity they have planned for Italy in September, then I can't really see what resolution there can be except for sharing the banner space. Normally though one would expect repeated banner impressions to have diminishing returns, rather than increasing returns - so I would expect the impact on Wiki Loves Monuments to be a fair bit less than what you make out. One thing I don't understand though - I thought fundraising banners were set to display ~once per person these days, rather than actually site-wide as they used to - is it not possible to have the (less intrusive) WLM banner displaying for the people who aren't getting the fundraising messages? Thanks, Chris On Tue, Aug 18, 2015 at 7:42 PM, Romaine Wiki romaine.w...@gmail.com wrote: Hi all, Sad news. The title of this thread seems a bit hard, but that is practically the situation as it looks now. *Background* Wiki Loves Monuments is the yearly photo contest since 2010, organised by many local Wikipedia communities and local chapters. For this contest a banner is shown on top of Wikipedia pages in the specific countries to attract attention from the public to participate in enriching Wikipedia with photos of the local cultural heritage. Wiki Loves Monuments depends for at least 99% on the banner. When there is no banner, the uploads and results drop dramatically, as possible participants are not informed and can't easily find the contest site. Also participants need time to go on location to take photos and see the banner above Wikipedia afterwards to find their way back. *What is the situation?* * The fundraising team plans to have a fundraising banner in Italy during the month September. * The local team of Wiki Loves Monuments in Italy is organising the contest in Italy and needs a banner as well. As there can be shown only one banner at the time, there have been talks about these conflicting banners. Result: Wiki Loves Monuments get only 37,5% of the time, the fundraising banner 62,5% of the time. Now you maybe think that 37,5% of the time is still large, but the appearances are deceptive because of the different ways the banner is used, and because the differences in numbers of upload throughout the month September. Also the banner is not shown at all during two full weeks, important weeks to attract participants. In the end I estimate, based on the usage and issues of previous years, etc, that only 10-15% of the uploads are made in comparison what normally would have been expected. This is what I would call a devastating effect. And this is purely because of bad planning at WMF: * They haven't checked which countries participated continuously the past years. * They haven't informed which countries are likely to participate. * And they say they can't move the fundraising banner to another month, but it is still a mystery why that isn't possible. This same issue was originally the case in two countries, but somehow it was possible to move it for the second country. This is really sad for Italy. Extra sad because of the difficult copyright situation in Italy, what requires the local team already to do much much much more work than in most other countries, just to have a normal contest. The Italian team does a great job this year. *My conclusion* The community is working very hard on improving and expanding the content of Wikipedia by organising Wiki Loves Monuments. I always thought that this was the number one priority of the whole Wikimedia movement. Did I made a wrong assumption somehow? But when it actually matters, the community project bears the bunt. This is sad, very sad. Please all, support the Italian team, they do a great job and deserve a successful contest. Greetings, Romaine PS: I am one of the international organisers of Wiki Loves Monuments this year, but this e-mail is written on my personal account only. ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wiki Loves Monuments in Italy largely blocked by WMF fundraising
An excellent idea, Chris. I am curious what are the exact reasons for having the fundraising banner in September. We were always told that December is the best month. It is no secret that many (and which) chapters run the WLM event in September. Maybe the FR team can explain about that, so that we have the bigger picture. Kind regards Ziko Am Mittwoch, 19. August 2015 schrieb Chris Keating : I can definitely understand your frustration, Romaine. However, if there is a strong operational reason why the Fundraising team can't move the activity they have planned for Italy in September, then I can't really see what resolution there can be except for sharing the banner space. Normally though one would expect repeated banner impressions to have diminishing returns, rather than increasing returns - so I would expect the impact on Wiki Loves Monuments to be a fair bit less than what you make out. One thing I don't understand though - I thought fundraising banners were set to display ~once per person these days, rather than actually site-wide as they used to - is it not possible to have the (less intrusive) WLM banner displaying for the people who aren't getting the fundraising messages? Thanks, Chris On Tue, Aug 18, 2015 at 7:42 PM, Romaine Wiki romaine.w...@gmail.com javascript:; wrote: Hi all, Sad news. The title of this thread seems a bit hard, but that is practically the situation as it looks now. *Background* Wiki Loves Monuments is the yearly photo contest since 2010, organised by many local Wikipedia communities and local chapters. For this contest a banner is shown on top of Wikipedia pages in the specific countries to attract attention from the public to participate in enriching Wikipedia with photos of the local cultural heritage. Wiki Loves Monuments depends for at least 99% on the banner. When there is no banner, the uploads and results drop dramatically, as possible participants are not informed and can't easily find the contest site. Also participants need time to go on location to take photos and see the banner above Wikipedia afterwards to find their way back. *What is the situation?* * The fundraising team plans to have a fundraising banner in Italy during the month September. * The local team of Wiki Loves Monuments in Italy is organising the contest in Italy and needs a banner as well. As there can be shown only one banner at the time, there have been talks about these conflicting banners. Result: Wiki Loves Monuments get only 37,5% of the time, the fundraising banner 62,5% of the time. Now you maybe think that 37,5% of the time is still large, but the appearances are deceptive because of the different ways the banner is used, and because the differences in numbers of upload throughout the month September. Also the banner is not shown at all during two full weeks, important weeks to attract participants. In the end I estimate, based on the usage and issues of previous years, etc, that only 10-15% of the uploads are made in comparison what normally would have been expected. This is what I would call a devastating effect. And this is purely because of bad planning at WMF: * They haven't checked which countries participated continuously the past years. * They haven't informed which countries are likely to participate. * And they say they can't move the fundraising banner to another month, but it is still a mystery why that isn't possible. This same issue was originally the case in two countries, but somehow it was possible to move it for the second country. This is really sad for Italy. Extra sad because of the difficult copyright situation in Italy, what requires the local team already to do much much much more work than in most other countries, just to have a normal contest. The Italian team does a great job this year. *My conclusion* The community is working very hard on improving and expanding the content of Wikipedia by organising Wiki Loves Monuments. I always thought that this was the number one priority of the whole Wikimedia movement. Did I made a wrong assumption somehow? But when it actually matters, the community project bears the bunt. This is sad, very sad. Please all, support the Italian team, they do a great job and deserve a successful contest. Greetings, Romaine PS: I am one of the international organisers of Wiki Loves Monuments this year, but this e-mail is written on my personal account only. ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org javascript:; Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org javascript:; ?subject=unsubscribe
Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wiki Loves Monuments in Italy largely blocked by WMF fundraising
Am 19.08.2015 11:19 schrieb Andrea Zanni zanni.andre...@gmail.com: [sorry for cross-posting] Hello everyone. Thanks Romaine for bringing up this issue, because it's good to talk these kind of things together with the whole community. It's a way to improve collaboration, I hope. Yes, this year WLM and FR will split banners in Semptember: we reached an agreement in which * 1-7 September: everyone see a WLM banner * 8-22 September: everyone see a fundraising banner * 23-30 September: the traffic will be split 50/50 between the WLM campaign and the fundraising campaign. (50% of readers will see a fundraising banner and 50% will see the WLM campaign.) We asked also a bigger percentage of visibility during the last 2-3 days of September, as they are very important days in terms of number of photo uploads: we'll see if we manage to find an agreement also there. I'd like to declare that the conversation with the fundraising team have been nothing less than polite and contructive: at the same time, there *is* a banner conflict, and we will both suffer from this. Last year (WLM 2014) we had the same problem, but in the end FR decided to leave us the banner for the whole September, but the final days. This year the conflict is on the whole month of September, and WLM in Italy will definitely suffer (as it does also in normal conditions ;-). This is a pity because: * FR decided to use September months ago, and they are now in a rush and cannot really change their plans How ridiculous. As if WMF would urgently need this money from Italy and as if it's hard work to change the date when some fundraising banners are shown to October. * WMIT decided to run WLM on September months ago as well, as it has done for the past 4 years. WMIT also declared his plans on WLM in the FDC appplication, reviewed in May. Knowing also that last year there was the same issue, it's fair to say, I hope, that from WMIT part there was no lack of communication. I agree with Maarten that, in the end, it's WMF decision the one that counts. This is why we were firm in stating our position but did not put up a fight (or a scene). We manage to reach a more favorable agreement for WLM (we asked for the first and last week of September, as they are in our opinion the most important). What we plan to do now is discussing the issue also with the Funds Dissemination Committee, as it will impact our goals and figures and metrics. Moreover, we do have sponsors in Italy for WLM, and it will not be easy to explain them if numbers drop dramatically. Lorenzo will explain to you what WLM means in terms of organization and management in Italy. Of course, this is the last time this problem has to happen. If the WMF is committed in running the FR banner in September in Italy (it seems it's the most favorable month), WMIT will have to change WLM and run it in October. I don't see other solutions. I hope this mail cleared a bit the situation. Cheers Andrea Zanni Wikimedia Italia On Wed, Aug 19, 2015 at 10:32 AM, Peter Southwood peter.southw...@telkomsa.net wrote: Is there not a method for time to be booked in advance for these things? Like a year in advance, so projects can be planned properly and not crippled at the last minute? Peter -Original Message- From: wikimedia-l-boun...@lists.wikimedia.org [mailto: wikimedia-l-boun...@lists.wikimedia.org] On Behalf Of Liam Wyatt Sent: Tuesday, 18 August 2015 10:06 PM To: Wikimedia Mailing List Cc: Wiki Loves Monuments Photograph Competition Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wiki Loves Monuments in Italy largely blocked by WMF fundraising On Tuesday, 18 August 2015, attolippip attolip...@gmail.com wrote: Can we get the WMF comments about it publicly? The WMF Fundraising department asked me to submit my own comments and feedback from previous years that can be taken into account for the 2015-16 fundraiser at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Fundraising/2015-16_Fundraising_ideas Some of the feedback is perennial - we have the same debates every year. But, if that is the page where the Fundraising team have requested comments about the forthcoming fundraiser be placed, then I suggest that people use it. -Liam -- wittylama.com Peace, love metadata ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2015.0.6086 / Virus Database: 4392/10462 - Release Date: 08/18/15 ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wiki Loves Monuments in Italy largely blocked by WMF fundraising
[sorry for cross-posting] Hello everyone. Thanks Romaine for bringing up this issue, because it's good to talk these kind of things together with the whole community. It's a way to improve collaboration, I hope. Yes, this year WLM and FR will split banners in Semptember: we reached an agreement in which * 1-7 September: everyone see a WLM banner * 8-22 September: everyone see a fundraising banner * 23-30 September: the traffic will be split 50/50 between the WLM campaign and the fundraising campaign. (50% of readers will see a fundraising banner and 50% will see the WLM campaign.) We asked also a bigger percentage of visibility during the last 2-3 days of September, as they are very important days in terms of number of photo uploads: we'll see if we manage to find an agreement also there. I'd like to declare that the conversation with the fundraising team have been nothing less than polite and contructive: at the same time, there *is* a banner conflict, and we will both suffer from this. Last year (WLM 2014) we had the same problem, but in the end FR decided to leave us the banner for the whole September, but the final days. This year the conflict is on the whole month of September, and WLM in Italy will definitely suffer (as it does also in normal conditions ;-). This is a pity because: * FR decided to use September months ago, and they are now in a rush and cannot really change their plans * WMIT decided to run WLM on September months ago as well, as it has done for the past 4 years. WMIT also declared his plans on WLM in the FDC appplication, reviewed in May. Knowing also that last year there was the same issue, it's fair to say, I hope, that from WMIT part there was no lack of communication. I agree with Maarten that, in the end, it's WMF decision the one that counts. This is why we were firm in stating our position but did not put up a fight (or a scene). We manage to reach a more favorable agreement for WLM (we asked for the first and last week of September, as they are in our opinion the most important). What we plan to do now is discussing the issue also with the Funds Dissemination Committee, as it will impact our goals and figures and metrics. Moreover, we do have sponsors in Italy for WLM, and it will not be easy to explain them if numbers drop dramatically. Lorenzo will explain to you what WLM means in terms of organization and management in Italy. Of course, this is the last time this problem has to happen. If the WMF is committed in running the FR banner in September in Italy (it seems it's the most favorable month), WMIT will have to change WLM and run it in October. I don't see other solutions. I hope this mail cleared a bit the situation. Cheers Andrea Zanni Wikimedia Italia On Wed, Aug 19, 2015 at 10:32 AM, Peter Southwood peter.southw...@telkomsa.net wrote: Is there not a method for time to be booked in advance for these things? Like a year in advance, so projects can be planned properly and not crippled at the last minute? Peter -Original Message- From: wikimedia-l-boun...@lists.wikimedia.org [mailto: wikimedia-l-boun...@lists.wikimedia.org] On Behalf Of Liam Wyatt Sent: Tuesday, 18 August 2015 10:06 PM To: Wikimedia Mailing List Cc: Wiki Loves Monuments Photograph Competition Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wiki Loves Monuments in Italy largely blocked by WMF fundraising On Tuesday, 18 August 2015, attolippip attolip...@gmail.com wrote: Can we get the WMF comments about it publicly? The WMF Fundraising department asked me to submit my own comments and feedback from previous years that can be taken into account for the 2015-16 fundraiser at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Fundraising/2015-16_Fundraising_ideas Some of the feedback is perennial - we have the same debates every year. But, if that is the page where the Fundraising team have requested comments about the forthcoming fundraiser be placed, then I suggest that people use it. -Liam -- wittylama.com Peace, love metadata ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2015.0.6086 / Virus Database: 4392/10462 - Release Date: 08/18/15 ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wiki Loves Monuments in Italy largely blocked by WMF fundraising
Il giorno mar, 18/08/2015 alle 20.42 +0200, Romaine Wiki ha scritto: [...] This is really sad for Italy. Extra sad because of the difficult copyright situation in Italy, what requires the local team already to do much much much more work than in most other countries, just to have a normal contest. The Italian team does a great job this year. Since probably most people in wikimedia-l are not aware of this, I'll add some background on the Italian situation an Wiki loves monuments, and why it's actually extra sad for Italy in particular. Wiki loves monuments is a big global project (one of the most successful ever), but in Italy it's a bit peculiar. The basic issue is that in Italy not only we don't have freedom of panorama, but there is actually a law that prohibits to take pictures of monuments, unless you get a specific authorization (and of course there is no list of Italian monuments and no simple way to know who is responsible for a specific monument). Since we are not people easy to stop, four years ago we decided to start asking for authorizations: we wrote to thousands of municipalities and other institutions. But every cloud has a silver lining, and we turned this problem into an occasion to build relationships. For this year's edition, we secured authorizations from 200 municipalities and 100 other institutions (so far); and with part of them we are organizing events (~40) during September. This is a huge work: apart from the many volunteers involved, we have a full time employee for WLM (Cristian Cenci) but actually also the rest of our staff is dedicating a lot of time to this (summing up, 1,5-2 FTEs as a yearly average). In particular, the budget of WLM in Italy is probably higher than in any other country (not because we waste money, but because of higher stakes). Clearly having specific authorizations is not the ideal solution, so we are actually advocating for a change in the law. Apart from taking part in the European effort on copyright (the FKAGEU), we are are trying to make the Italian politicians understand the issue (among other things, we have recently had an event in the Italian parliament). In short, this means that WLM in Italy is planned long ahead, we have hundreds of institutional partner, and it is central to our strategy. Lorenzo ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wiki Loves Monuments in Italy largely blocked by WMF fundraising
Is there not a method for time to be booked in advance for these things? Like a year in advance, so projects can be planned properly and not crippled at the last minute? Peter -Original Message- From: wikimedia-l-boun...@lists.wikimedia.org [mailto:wikimedia-l-boun...@lists.wikimedia.org] On Behalf Of Liam Wyatt Sent: Tuesday, 18 August 2015 10:06 PM To: Wikimedia Mailing List Cc: Wiki Loves Monuments Photograph Competition Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wiki Loves Monuments in Italy largely blocked by WMF fundraising On Tuesday, 18 August 2015, attolippip attolip...@gmail.com wrote: Can we get the WMF comments about it publicly? The WMF Fundraising department asked me to submit my own comments and feedback from previous years that can be taken into account for the 2015-16 fundraiser at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Fundraising/2015-16_Fundraising_ideas Some of the feedback is perennial - we have the same debates every year. But, if that is the page where the Fundraising team have requested comments about the forthcoming fundraiser be placed, then I suggest that people use it. -Liam -- wittylama.com Peace, love metadata ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2015.0.6086 / Virus Database: 4392/10462 - Release Date: 08/18/15 ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
Re: [Wikimedia-l] Fw: important
Spam and scam P -Original Message- From: wikimedia-l-boun...@lists.wikimedia.org [mailto:wikimedia-l-boun...@lists.wikimedia.org] On Behalf Of Platonides Sent: Tuesday, 18 August 2015 11:27 PM To: Wikipedia mailing list Cc: Wikimedia Mailing List Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] Fw: important Kenneth Cook wrote: I consider this to be spam, do you? Ken Yes, of course. It is a misleading text Important message, visit xyz with a link to a compromised website that redirects to a page impersonating a newspaper in order to get you use a trading program. (at your own risk, and according to the TOU you can only use it if you have enough financial knowledge and experience). ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2015.0.6086 / Virus Database: 4392/10465 - Release Date: 08/19/15 ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
