Re: [Wikimedia-l] WMF C level hiring and retention

[Pine W]

Hi Christophe,

Thanks. Your email is more than I expected on a weekend. Board members get
to have AFK time too. There are people (both Wikimedians and WMFers) who
need to deal with emergencies of various kinds (primarily technical or
safety) whenever those happen, and community activity needs to be a nearly
24/7 operation for activities like IRC and quality control, but there are
enough people involved that hopefully everyone gets to have some AFK time.

Pine
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] WMF C level hiring and retention

[Christophe Henner]

Hey,

As you said you've asked the question during the week-end ^^

Things are moving forward but I'll let Katherine answer the question as
she'll be able a way better answer than me (I talk about that topic nearly
every week with Katherine, it is a high priority topic for all of us).

Please bare in my mind when you ask questions, that staff needs their
week-end off and they also have holidays. We tend to forget that as
volunteers, but we must not.

Even if we have highly dedicated people, we all want them to get proper
rest :)

If your question isn't urgent/critical, it can take a few days to get an
answer. But for today, I'll send quick emails saying that it has been read
and will get an answer so no to leave you with the feeling it's ignored.

Have a great day,

Le 15 août 2016 8:44 AM, "Pine W"  a écrit :

> Returning to one of the original subjects of this thread, which wasn't
> intended to be controversial: can we get an update about how the C level
> hiring schedule looks?
>
> I realize that I asked this questiom on the weekend. There is no rush to
> get an answer. "We're still thinking about this but will have a schedule
> next week" is an okay answer too.
>
> Thanks,
> Pine
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] WMF C level hiring and retention

[Pine W]

Returning to one of the original subjects of this thread, which wasn't
intended to be controversial: can we get an update about how the C level
hiring schedule looks?

I realize that I asked this questiom on the weekend. There is no rush to
get an answer. "We're still thinking about this but will have a schedule
next week" is an okay answer too.

Thanks,
Pine
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] WMF C level hiring and retention

[Pine W]

Pete,

I'm intentionally anonymizing communications that happened in private. But
yes, I agree that it would be best if there was public discussion about
this subject from people who are more directly involved in it. If that
needs to go through chain of command (up to Katherine if necessary) to
happen in public, I'm OK with that.

Communication in private happens routinely for legitimate purposes, and I
want people to feel okay with doing that, which is one reason why I
anonymize comments that I have heard that weren't explicitly cleared for
public distribution. On the other hand, I want to lean in the direction of
more public communication as well.

That's a long way of saying that your point is well taken.

Thanks,

Pine

On Sun, Aug 14, 2016 at 2:40 PM, Pete Forsyth  wrote:

> Pine, maybe so, but if that's what you're going for, your best move might
> be to privately urge the people who have talked to you to come forward
> publicly -- rather than you sharing their words without attribution or
> context.
>
> The information that came through from your message is, "Pine asserts that
> Wikimedia staff confide in him." That probably wasn't your intent, but I
> agree with Keegan's characterization of it as gossip.
> -Pete
> [[User:Peteforsyth]]
>
> On Sun, Aug 14, 2016 at 2:19 PM, Pine W  wrote:
>
> > Discussing an organization's strengths and weaknesses, transparently,
> > should be the norm for how business is done. Keeping quiet about problems
> > is sometimes necessary, but transparency should be the norm.
> >
> > Pine
> >
> > On Sun, Aug 14, 2016 at 1:35 PM, Keegan Peterzell  >
> > wrote:
> >
> > > On Sun, Aug 14, 2016 at 12:28 AM, Pine W  wrote:
> > >
> > > > I agree that there can be a benefit to internal promotions in the
> sense
> > > > that less onboarding is required. On the other hand, sometimes a
> fresh
> > > > perspective is helpful, and at least one of the interim Cs has been
> > > > insistent that they want to return to their previous job.
> > > >
> > > > Also, while people are in interim roles, their departments are down a
> > > > person unless their previous positions are somehow backfilled,
> perhaps
> > > with
> > > > contractors. I have already heard from one department that they are
> > > feeling
> > > > the squeeze.
> > > >
> > > > Pine
> > >
> > >
> > > ​I'm not really comfortable with gossip here, whether about a Wikimedia
> > > project or the WMF.​
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > ~Keegan
> > >
> > > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Keegan
> > >
> > > This is my personal email address. Everything sent from this email
> > address
> > > is in a personal capacity.
> > > ___
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> > >
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> >
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] WMF C level hiring and retention

[Pete Forsyth]

Pine, maybe so, but if that's what you're going for, your best move might
be to privately urge the people who have talked to you to come forward
publicly -- rather than you sharing their words without attribution or
context.

The information that came through from your message is, "Pine asserts that
Wikimedia staff confide in him." That probably wasn't your intent, but I
agree with Keegan's characterization of it as gossip.
-Pete
[[User:Peteforsyth]]

On Sun, Aug 14, 2016 at 2:19 PM, Pine W  wrote:

> Discussing an organization's strengths and weaknesses, transparently,
> should be the norm for how business is done. Keeping quiet about problems
> is sometimes necessary, but transparency should be the norm.
>
> Pine
>
> On Sun, Aug 14, 2016 at 1:35 PM, Keegan Peterzell 
> wrote:
>
> > On Sun, Aug 14, 2016 at 12:28 AM, Pine W  wrote:
> >
> > > I agree that there can be a benefit to internal promotions in the sense
> > > that less onboarding is required. On the other hand, sometimes a fresh
> > > perspective is helpful, and at least one of the interim Cs has been
> > > insistent that they want to return to their previous job.
> > >
> > > Also, while people are in interim roles, their departments are down a
> > > person unless their previous positions are somehow backfilled, perhaps
> > with
> > > contractors. I have already heard from one department that they are
> > feeling
> > > the squeeze.
> > >
> > > Pine
> >
> >
> > ​I'm not really comfortable with gossip here, whether about a Wikimedia
> > project or the WMF.​
> >
> >
> > --
> > ~Keegan
> >
> > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Keegan
> >
> > This is my personal email address. Everything sent from this email
> address
> > is in a personal capacity.
> > ___
> > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> > wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
> > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > 
> >
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] WMF C level hiring and retention

[Pine W]

Discussing an organization's strengths and weaknesses, transparently,
should be the norm for how business is done. Keeping quiet about problems
is sometimes necessary, but transparency should be the norm.

Pine

On Sun, Aug 14, 2016 at 1:35 PM, Keegan Peterzell 
wrote:

> On Sun, Aug 14, 2016 at 12:28 AM, Pine W  wrote:
>
> > I agree that there can be a benefit to internal promotions in the sense
> > that less onboarding is required. On the other hand, sometimes a fresh
> > perspective is helpful, and at least one of the interim Cs has been
> > insistent that they want to return to their previous job.
> >
> > Also, while people are in interim roles, their departments are down a
> > person unless their previous positions are somehow backfilled, perhaps
> with
> > contractors. I have already heard from one department that they are
> feeling
> > the squeeze.
> >
> > Pine
>
>
> ​I'm not really comfortable with gossip here, whether about a Wikimedia
> project or the WMF.​
>
>
> --
> ~Keegan
>
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Keegan
>
> This is my personal email address. Everything sent from this email address
> is in a personal capacity.
> ___
> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
> New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
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> 
>
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] WMF C level hiring and retention

[Keegan Peterzell]

On Sun, Aug 14, 2016 at 12:28 AM, Pine W  wrote:

> I agree that there can be a benefit to internal promotions in the sense
> that less onboarding is required. On the other hand, sometimes a fresh
> perspective is helpful, and at least one of the interim Cs has been
> insistent that they want to return to their previous job.
>
> Also, while people are in interim roles, their departments are down a
> person unless their previous positions are somehow backfilled, perhaps with
> contractors. I have already heard from one department that they are feeling
> the squeeze.
>
> Pine


​I'm not really comfortable with gossip here, whether about a Wikimedia
project or the WMF.​


-- 
~Keegan

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Keegan

This is my personal email address. Everything sent from this email address
is in a personal capacity.
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] WMF C level hiring and retention

[Pine W]

If it is the case that normal C-level churn was significantly accelerated
by the choice of ED (which makes sense to me; I had previously heard this
explicitly only with regard to one former C) then this is another reason
that I hope that there will be some reflection by the Board about what went
wrong, particularly concerning how the Board was so slow to acknowledge the
problem and take action on it.

Could the Board say whether the scope of its planned governance review
includes a review of what happened on the Board with regard to its
supervision of the previous ED? I am aware that C-level exit interviews are
now being done. A review of the facts of the Board's actions regarding the
previous ED would be instructive, including an external review of the facts
surrounding James' departure from the Board which seemed to have been
related to staff concerns about the previous ED and how the Board was
handling those concerns.

Pine

On Aug 14, 2016 04:52, "Asaf Bartov"  wrote:

> On Sun, Aug 14, 2016 at 4:22 AM, Pine W  wrote:
>
> >
> > I am also wondering about what can be done to keep C levels after we get
> > them.
>
>
> The implicit assertion that this is a problem we generally suffer from is,
> I think, incorrect.  We have generally not had difficulty retaining our
> c-levels for decent (multi-year) tenures.  It is decidedly the case that
> the prime reason for the c-level departures in the past three years was the
> exceptionally ill-suited and problematic previous executive director that
> WMF was laboring under.  Some departing c-levels are explicitly on the
> record saying so.
>
> I therefore suggest you are perhaps trying to solve a perceived problem
> that isn't actually there, and I think it would waste all our time to
> discuss it.
>
>A.
> --
> Asaf Bartov
> Wikimedia Foundation 
>
> Imagine a world in which every single human being can freely share in the
> sum of all knowledge. Help us make it a reality!
> https://donate.wikimedia.org
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] WMF C level hiring and retention

[Vi to]

+1 on train & promote.

Vito

2016-08-14 4:38 GMT+02:00 James Heilman :

> Only the CTO position is empty. All of the rest are filled with very
> competent interims who may simply be transitioned into permanent. I like it
> that people who prove themselves to be excellent can move up within the WMF
> and think that this is often better than hiring from outside.
>
> James
>
> On Sat, Aug 13, 2016 at 7:22 PM, Pine W  wrote:
>
> > Hi,
> >
> > Just a request for an update about  C level hiring. My understanding is
> > that WMF is actively recruiting for a new CTO and hopes to fill that
> > position within the next month or two. Previously announced next
> priorities
> > were HR and Community, in that order. I am wondering how Communications
> and
> > Legal fit into the picture, now that those positions need to be filled as
> > well.
> >
> > I am also wondering about what can be done to keep C levels after we get
> > them. Some of them seem to have much longer tenures than others, and
> having
> > so many vacancies concurrently is a situation that I think we'd all like
> to
> > avoid in the future, particularly the next time that WMF has a new or
> > interim ED who may need to rely on their Cs for advice much more than
> > Katherine needs to do so. (I'm not implying that Katherine doesn't listen
> > or doesn't need advice, just that she's experienced enough that she can
> do
> > well in areas where an ED who is new to WMF or the role might struggle.)
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> > Pine
> > ___
> > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/
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> > 
>
>
>
>
> --
> James Heilman
> MD, CCFP-EM, Wikipedian
>
> The Wikipedia Open Textbook of Medicine
> www.opentextbookofmedicine.com
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] WMF C level hiring and retention

[Asaf Bartov]

On Sun, Aug 14, 2016 at 4:22 AM, Pine W  wrote:

>
> I am also wondering about what can be done to keep C levels after we get
> them.


The implicit assertion that this is a problem we generally suffer from is,
I think, incorrect.  We have generally not had difficulty retaining our
c-levels for decent (multi-year) tenures.  It is decidedly the case that
the prime reason for the c-level departures in the past three years was the
exceptionally ill-suited and problematic previous executive director that
WMF was laboring under.  Some departing c-levels are explicitly on the
record saying so.

I therefore suggest you are perhaps trying to solve a perceived problem
that isn't actually there, and I think it would waste all our time to
discuss it.

   A.
-- 
Asaf Bartov
Wikimedia Foundation 

Imagine a world in which every single human being can freely share in the
sum of all knowledge. Help us make it a reality!
https://donate.wikimedia.org
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] WMF C level hiring and retention

[Pine W]

I agree that there can be a benefit to internal promotions in the sense
that less onboarding is required. On the other hand, sometimes a fresh
perspective is helpful, and at least one of the interim Cs has been
insistent that they want to return to their previous job.

Also, while people are in interim roles, their departments are down a
person unless their previous positions are somehow backfilled, perhaps with
contractors. I have already heard from one department that they are feeling
the squeeze.

Pine

On Aug 13, 2016 19:39, "James Heilman"  wrote:

> Only the CTO position is empty. All of the rest are filled with very
> competent interims who may simply be transitioned into permanent. I like it
> that people who prove themselves to be excellent can move up within the WMF
> and think that this is often better than hiring from outside.
>
> James
>
> On Sat, Aug 13, 2016 at 7:22 PM, Pine W  wrote:
>
> > Hi,
> >
> > Just a request for an update about  C level hiring. My understanding is
> > that WMF is actively recruiting for a new CTO and hopes to fill that
> > position within the next month or two. Previously announced next
> priorities
> > were HR and Community, in that order. I am wondering how Communications
> and
> > Legal fit into the picture, now that those positions need to be filled as
> > well.
> >
> > I am also wondering about what can be done to keep C levels after we get
> > them. Some of them seem to have much longer tenures than others, and
> having
> > so many vacancies concurrently is a situation that I think we'd all like
> to
> > avoid in the future, particularly the next time that WMF has a new or
> > interim ED who may need to rely on their Cs for advice much more than
> > Katherine needs to do so. (I'm not implying that Katherine doesn't listen
> > or doesn't need advice, just that she's experienced enough that she can
> do
> > well in areas where an ED who is new to WMF or the role might struggle.)
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> > Pine
> > ___
> > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> > wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
> > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > 
>
>
>
>
> --
> James Heilman
> MD, CCFP-EM, Wikipedian
>
> The Wikipedia Open Textbook of Medicine
> www.opentextbookofmedicine.com
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] WMF C level hiring and retention

[James Heilman]

Only the CTO position is empty. All of the rest are filled with very
competent interims who may simply be transitioned into permanent. I like it
that people who prove themselves to be excellent can move up within the WMF
and think that this is often better than hiring from outside.

James

On Sat, Aug 13, 2016 at 7:22 PM, Pine W  wrote:

> Hi,
>
> Just a request for an update about  C level hiring. My understanding is
> that WMF is actively recruiting for a new CTO and hopes to fill that
> position within the next month or two. Previously announced next priorities
> were HR and Community, in that order. I am wondering how Communications and
> Legal fit into the picture, now that those positions need to be filled as
> well.
>
> I am also wondering about what can be done to keep C levels after we get
> them. Some of them seem to have much longer tenures than others, and having
> so many vacancies concurrently is a situation that I think we'd all like to
> avoid in the future, particularly the next time that WMF has a new or
> interim ED who may need to rely on their Cs for advice much more than
> Katherine needs to do so. (I'm not implying that Katherine doesn't listen
> or doesn't need advice, just that she's experienced enough that she can do
> well in areas where an ED who is new to WMF or the role might struggle.)
>
> Regards,
>
> Pine
> ___
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-- 
James Heilman
MD, CCFP-EM, Wikipedian

The Wikipedia Open Textbook of Medicine
www.opentextbookofmedicine.com
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[Wikimedia-l] WMF C level hiring and retention

[Pine W]

Hi,

Just a request for an update about  C level hiring. My understanding is
that WMF is actively recruiting for a new CTO and hopes to fill that
position within the next month or two. Previously announced next priorities
were HR and Community, in that order. I am wondering how Communications and
Legal fit into the picture, now that those positions need to be filled as
well.

I am also wondering about what can be done to keep C levels after we get
them. Some of them seem to have much longer tenures than others, and having
so many vacancies concurrently is a situation that I think we'd all like to
avoid in the future, particularly the next time that WMF has a new or
interim ED who may need to rely on their Cs for advice much more than
Katherine needs to do so. (I'm not implying that Katherine doesn't listen
or doesn't need advice, just that she's experienced enough that she can do
well in areas where an ED who is new to WMF or the role might struggle.)

Regards,

Pine
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