Re: [Wikimediaau-l] Member / non-member

[Karl Goetz]

On Sun, 13 Dec 2009 13:18:22 +
Liam Wyatt  wrote:

> On Sun, Dec 13, 2009 at 11:49 AM, Karl Goetz 
> wrote:
> 
> > On Sun, 13 Dec 2009 20:33:51 +1100
> > Richard Ames  wrote:
> >
> > >
> > > I sent in a donation in lieu of joining and I don't really
> > > remember why... but it was something to do with too much trouble
> > > to meet the requirements to join...
> > >
> > > FWIW, Cheers, Richard.
> >
> > Hm...
> > I got as far as looking at memberdb's login window and thought 'ya
> > know, its just not worth of digging out my login.'. I can sit in a
> > quiet IRC channel for free :)
> > thanks,
> > kk
> >
> >
> If it's a memberDB problem, then hopefully that will be solved with
> the move to CiviCRM.

Hopefully so!
kk

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Re: [Wikimediaau-l] Membership, regional participation and other things

[Karl Goetz]

On Mon, 14 Dec 2009 00:16:10 +1100
Sarah Ewart  wrote:

> >
> > > Fellow members and supporters,
> > >
> > > A key priority for 2009-10 has to be building the chapter and
> > > make it successful.
> >
> > > Using the figures from the secretary's report at the AGM, in
> > > regional terms our numbers were stable, here in WA we went from 5
> > > to 3 members (I am in fact the only original WA member left) and,
> > > even more concerningly, nationally we lost 2/3 of our initial
> > > intake although we actually gained a fair number of people. We
> > > need to do *far* more
> >
> > Are you able to give us these sort of stats for each state?
> > thanks,
> > kk
> >
> >
> Karl, they're in my secretary report -
> http://www.wikimedia.org.au/wiki/2009-2010_AGM/Secretary_report

Thanks,
kk

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Re: [Wikimediaau-l] Official Wiki

[Karl Goetz]

On Sun, 13 Dec 2009 20:45:40 +1100
Virtual Steve  wrote:

> 
> As the new treasurer of the Wiki-Aus I have been reading this
> discussion with some interest and I now make the following comment.

Congrats on your election then!

> I am in support of Sarah's continual point that only financial
> members should be able to edit the official wiki for many reasons,
> however the below snippet from Andrew's comment is particularly
> useful and valid. Quite frankly folks the committee members of this
> chapter already have absolutely far too many things to read - to the
> extent that there is a very great chance that we will come awash with
> the excess of that information (and indeed there are clear instances
> where we have already).  

I've moved the comment for context.

> > *Andrew comment sent Saturday, 12 December 2009 9:38 AM
> > Expecting already busy committee members (and I'm not even
> > speaking for myself here) to monitor the wiki in such circumstances
> > is an imposition on them and a completely unnecessary one - what do
> > we stand to benefit from it, as against the costs?

So _don't_ make this the committees job!

> Adding to that situation with open editing of the official wiki is
> neither practical nor reflective of real world boards, and quite
> frankly we are a real world board with real world responsibilities as
> a part of corporate governance requirements. In a nutshell we are

Which is nice, but not relevant to the website structure.

> responsible in the main to the financial members of this chapter and
> it is only their material that should take any more of our time or
> effort at the the official chapter pages.

How much extra effort will be required to police the site if it uses
confirmed logins instead of ip based editing?

> There are plenty of ways to draw our attention to issues of concern
> at other open wikis and so I for one do not support open editing in
> any form.

Getting your attention may not be the only reason to edit the site ...
kk

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Re: [Wikimediaau-l] open wikis for chapters....?

[Karl Goetz]

On Sat, 12 Dec 2009 17:29:13 +0800
Andrew  wrote:

> I think the post at
> http://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikimediaau-l/2009-December/002764.html
encapsulates
> quite well the sort of challenges that chapter websites face
> which, for example, Wikipedia does not. The fact of legal
> registration makes anarchy (even structured anarchy) an undesirable

How much worse will the anarchy be with non-members rather then
members? What form will this 'bad' anarchy take?

> option and would mean we are not acting in the best interests of our
> members who have bothered to commit to and support the chapter's aims
> financially and expect the chapter to act responsibly.

Pardon? Don't assume the only people giving their time or money[1] to
WMAU are members - its wrong, and likely to become increasingly wrong if
this organisation goes anyware.

> I would also note based on the discussions and on earlier committee
> deliberations that there's no serious likelihood of the Australian
> chapter changing its current policy on this at this time. It's worth
> highlighting that one does not need to be a member to contribute to
> wikimediaau-l, collaborate in person or virtually on projects or
> attend city-based meetups (other than the AGM).
> 
> cheers
> Andrew
> 

[1] Recent thread, Subject: [Wikimediaau-l] Member / non-member


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Re: [Wikimediaau-l] official wiki

[Karl Goetz]

On Sat, 12 Dec 2009 11:57:02 +1100
Brian Salter-Duke  wrote:

> On Sat, Dec 12, 2009 at 11:09:58AM +1100, Peter Halasz wrote:
> > So lock those specific pages. Have you ever used Wikipedia? Do you
> > think it would exist if they were worried only about representation?
> 
> I will try to respond to this debate, wearing my hat as Public Officer
> of WMAU later, but for now let me just say that our official wiki is
> not like wikipedia. It is much more like:

I assume this means this is your personal view?

>  http://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Main_Page
> 
> As an incorporated association we have legal obligations to the
> community via CAV, not only to the membership. This means the issue of

For those of us not in the know, what is CAV, and can you provide a
reference to it for us to look at?

> access is not simple and it requires thought.  There is also a real

Not simple on the backend? I assume whatever sits behind the login
process is able to automatically remove people who didn't pay (ldap?
sql?). If thats the case its also easy to work out who should be in
certain edit groups: they have valid memberships or not.

> tension here, not only about access. For example, there is also a
> tension between the project's love of anonymity for users, with the
> legal requirements imposed by imcorporating.

Aye. Its entirely possible annon edits will not be a possibility. That
doesn't mean that only members should be able to edit though.
kk

> Cheers, Brian.
>  


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Re: [Wikimediaau-l] official wiki

[Karl Goetz]

On Sat, 12 Dec 2009 10:15:56 +1100
Peter Halasz  wrote:

> Sarah,
> 
> The only actual reason you've given for not opening up the wiki to
> non-members is because of fear of vandalism.
> 
> Ok, so we have a problem: Potential vandalism.
> 
> Solutions?
> 
> 1. Actually observe actual vandalism before locking anything down.
> 2. Assign a couple of people to patrolling recent changes once a week

2b. Enable rss on recent changes, and people can look whenever they
want and load up a browser if fixes need to be made.

(trim other options)

> Peter Halasz.
> User:Pengo
> (Lapsed member)

kk (also Lapsed).

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Re: [Wikimediaau-l] official wiki

[Karl Goetz]

On Sun, 13 Dec 2009 16:44:09 +1000
"Craig Franklin"  wrote:


> Perhaps a compromise between the "no access for non-members" and "open
> access" viewpoints is in order.  We could open access to everyone,
> provided they had an account.  Accounts would still need to be
> approved by someone to weed out spam bots and the like (having
> managed a public-facing Wiki, I know that this is often a serious

There are public block lists for mediawiki sites available to help with
such things are there not?

> problem), and perhaps the accounts of non-members could be
> sequestered into the user space or something.  If you look at
> Wikimedia UK's "Recent Changes" page, there is a lot of rubbish there
> that their admins are having to spend their time cleaning up -
> frankly I think our people have better things to do than play janitor
> on the chapter wiki.

Surely its possible to let anyone do the cleaning up? I've seen it said
several times that it would be the committees job. Sounds like
something 4-5 people should be selected to do as part of the
(potential) opening up process.

> I don't know, apart from the whole "open philosophy", I don't see any
> real reasons why anyone who is not a member would want to post on our
> Wiki, and the fact that the Billabong is quiet. I don't really see
> that as a problem since most of the communication and discussion
> occurs on this list, which is essentially open to the public anyway.

Someone else replied to this, so I'll go with 'what they said'.

> Cheers,
> 
> Craig

I've replied to the following email inline as well.

> From: wikimediaau-l-boun...@lists.wikimedia.org
> [mailto:wikimediaau-l-boun...@lists.wikimedia.org] On Behalf Of Andrew
> Sent: Saturday, 12 December 2009 9:38 AM
> To: Wikimedia-au
> Subject: Re: [Wikimediaau-l] official wiki
> 
>  
> 
> At the end of the day, and I think this is a point that isn't well
> understood because we have a foot on both sides of the border, this
> is the official wiki for a non profit organisation. The wiki's set up

Hopefully we can all agree on this and take it into account.

> in such a way that those that are willing to support the aims of the
> organisation can edit freely. I don't know of any other similar
> organisations which offer open editing or participation - one I know

'similar organisations' Meaning NGOs? NFPs? *wiki groups? ...?

> that runs meetings for its members (and this is just networking!)
> charges $10 for non-members to attend a meeting; another runs closed
> email lists that non-members can't even see.

That sounds distinctly un-community-like to me. For an industry group
(Something like http://sage-au.org.au/display/SAGEAU/Home ) I can
undestand that. For a group ostensibly trying to promote wiki it seems
distinctly counter to the groups aim.

> As for the argument re vandalism - that isn't even our biggest
> prospective problem. The biggest is actually misrepresentation - the
> risk that we will be discredited as an organisation in the eyes of
> those we seek to build partnerships with. In the relatively insular

Did you mean "... those we seek to build partnerships with, *if they
see vandalism*, or "... those we seek to build partnerships with, if
they see our website is editable".

> world of free culture, edginess seems like a good thing, but in the

edginess? Not sure I follow.

> real world, quite apart from our legal and other obligations with
> CAV, we have to deal with businesses, large organisations,
> governments, NGOs and the like. We're competing for their attention
> with more professional outfits which can offer them something. We're
> asking them to give us something - which requires a standard of
> credibility and professionalism. If random chaos is unfolding on our

It doesn't mean you have to (try and) be a business.
What "Random chaos" are you envisaging, if vandalism isn't considered a
major problem (hopefully not misquoting you there).

> official website (and that is what it is), we have a bit of a problem
> in that area. Expecting already busy committee members (and I'm not
> even speaking for myself here) to monitor the wiki in such

They shouldn't. Thats what other members should be doing.

> circumstances is an imposition on them and a completely unnecessary

Agreed.

> one - what do we stand to benefit from it, as against the costs?

Thats what we are trying to work out :)
kk

> cheers
> Andrew


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Re: [Wikimediaau-l] Member / non-member

[Karl Goetz]

On Sun, 13 Dec 2009 20:33:51 +1100
Richard Ames  wrote:

> 
> I sent in a donation in lieu of joining and I don't really remember
> why... but it was something to do with too much trouble to meet the
> requirements to join...
> 
> FWIW, Cheers, Richard.

Hm...
I got as far as looking at memberdb's login window and thought 'ya
know, its just not worth of digging out my login.'. I can sit in a quiet
IRC channel for free :)
thanks,
kk

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Re: [Wikimediaau-l] Membership, regional participation and other things

[Karl Goetz]

On Sun, 13 Dec 2009 17:41:25 +0800
Andrew  wrote:

> Fellow members and supporters,
> 
> A key priority for 2009-10 has to be building the chapter and make it
> successful.

> Using the figures from the secretary's report at the AGM, in regional
> terms our numbers were stable, here in WA we went from 5 to 3 members
> (I am in fact the only original WA member left) and, even more
> concerningly, nationally we lost 2/3 of our initial intake although
> we actually gained a fair number of people. We need to do *far* more

Are you able to give us these sort of stats for each state?
thanks,
kk

> kindest regards
> Andrew Owens
> (WM-AU committee general member)


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Re: [Wikimediaau-l] Fwd: linux.conf.au Call for Papers are now open!

[Karl Goetz]

On Sun, 19 Jul 2009 15:18:14 +1000
Brianna Laugher  wrote:

> Hi all,
> 
> I meant to forward this a while ago, but the LCA 2010 CFP closes this
> Friday. LCA is a free software technical conference, but one of the
> topics they are targeting this year is "Free Software and Free Culture
> topics, including licencing and Free and Open approaches outside
> software". Also, the first announced keynote speaker is Benjamin Mako
> Hill, who is on the WMF's advisory board.
> 
> It's in January in Wellington, NZ. I am going to try and organise a
> meet-up the weekend before the conference.
> 

I'm hoping to make it along, so I've watched the page. Not great at
watching my watchlist though ;)
kk

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Re: [Wikimediaau-l] Unlocking IP Conference 2009

[Karl Goetz]

On Tue, 31 Mar 2009 17:15:19 +1100
Liam Wyatt  wrote:

> and also speaking will be Brianna and myself on the topic of
> *Wikimedia in copyright / Copyright in Wikimedia’
> *http://www.cyberlawcentre.org/unlocking-ip/2009/papers.htm#4ALS
> 
> (like I said, CoI...) :-)
> -Liam
> [[witty lama]]
> 
> On 3/31/09, Jessica Coates  wrote:
> >
> >  Very relevant conference below - focusing entirely on the public
> > domain.

> >
> >
> > *Unlocking IP 2009 Conference –*
> >
> > *National and global dimensions of the copyright public domain*
> >
> > *16-17 April 2009 - UNSW Sydney*
> >

Somehow Sydney stays a long way away :(
Good luck both, look forward to hearing about it :)
kk

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Re: [Wikimediaau-l] Australian public broadcaster releases first material under CC

[Karl Goetz]

On Tue, 17 Feb 2009 20:06:47 +1100
Nathan Carter  wrote:

> A big boost for the free-culture movement in Australia

Great to see (pity about the -nc though).
kk

> 
> 2009/2/17 Jessica Coates :
> > A couple of days ago the ABC's excellent collaborative media site,
> > Pool, posted a recording of genetics professor Steve Jones talking
> > about Darwin's life and work under a Creative Commons
> > Attribution-Noncommercial licence. As far as we're aware, this is
> > the very first time material from the ABC archives has been
> > released under a Creative Commons licence.
> >
> > And this is just the beginning. Pool plans to release a whole
> > series of ABC archival materials that for remixing as part of its
> > its Gene Pool project.
> >
> > We're all very excited here at CCau. The ABC has, almost without
> > question, the largest historical audiovisual archive in Australia.
> > Just think what we can do with it.
> >
> > Read more about it at CCau here:
> > http://creativecommons.org.au/node/211
> >
> > Or on Pool itself:
> > http://pool.org.au/blog/pool_team/gene_pool_launch_and_open_archives_release.
> >
> >
> > Jessica Coates


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Re: [Wikimediaau-l] Fwd: Conference: "National and Global Dimensions of the Public Domain", Sydney, April 16-17

[Karl Goetz]

On Thu, February 12, 2009 16:05, Brianna Laugher wrote:
> the list of topics looks *extremely* relevant to our interests!
>
> Brianna
>

Cyberspace Law and Policy Centre do lots of interesting things - hope the
sydneysiders here make it along.

*wonders why the local unis dont do interesting stuff like that*

kk

>
> -- Forwarded message --
> From: Ben Bildstein 
> Date: 2009/2/12
> Subject: [Commons-research] Conference: "National and Global
> Dimensions of the Public Domain", Sydney, April 16-17
> To: commons-research 
>
>
> Dear commons researchers,
>
> The Cyberspace Law and Policy Centre at the University of New South
> Wales, as part of its ARC-funded Unlocking IP project, will be holding
> a conference, 'National and Global Dimensions of the Public Domain',
> to be held on 16-17 April, 2009 in the new UNSW Faculty of Law
> building:
>   
>

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Re: [Wikimediaau-l] WM-AU national gathering

[Karl Goetz]

On Tue, 27 Jan 2009 14:33:16 +1100
Charles Gregory  wrote:

> Hi everyone,
> 

Hi mate,

> 
> Cons:
> 
> 1. The LCA city is not always appropriate for a WM-AU meetup due to
> us being of a smaller size.  eg. Hobart, Cairns, Darwin, NZ, possibly
> Perth. Workaround - we decide our own venue in those particular years.

Or we could use it as a chance to boost our numbers in that particular
location.

> 2. I believe our AGM needs to be held between July-November.  I'm not
> sure how Linux Australia gets away with holding theirs in January.
> They may be incorporated in a different state with different rules?
> 
> Other notes:
> 
> - Since the next LCA will be in Wellington, I suggest we don't change
> our plans for this year - continue on with the late '09 Canberra
> option as previously suggested.
> - Are we going to LCA Wellington next year (Jan 2010) anyway?  We
> could assist WM-NZ with their formation.

"we"?
kk

> - Naturally if we were to host Wikimania it would not be influenced
> by this.
> 
> Comments/ideas?
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Charles


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Re: [Wikimediaau-l] Wikipedia and schools

[Karl Goetz]

On Tue, 9 Dec 2008 15:05:04 +1100
"private musings" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Right now, my feeling is that there's just a bit of a missing layer of
> controls / policies / practice in how Wikimedia handles some material
> - which means on balance I couldn't in good faith recommend to a
> School Librarian that they allow full access to the projects from
> their computers... or to put it another way - if we visit a school
> advocating high levels of active engagement in the project, we should
> understand that the Principle might be upset, or get complaints from
> upset parents that things like;
> 
> http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Erotic
> 
> come under our 'banner' - not safe for work, nothing hugely
> offensive, but available through Wikimedia pages, and likely to be
> the sort of thing schools would like to avoid?

I never knew that category existed - then again, I never thought too
look.
Thats posted in the commons - does that mean those images are part of
Wikipedia, or "just" sister projects?

kk

> cheers,
> 
> Peter
> PM.
> 


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Re: [Wikimediaau-l] Australian stats, soon to be CC

[Karl Goetz]

On Fri, 5 Dec 2008 20:33:34 +1100
"Nathan Carter" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

(top posting to avoid breaking reverse flow)

they may have someone in sydney.
At the very least, I think it would be a nice gesture to them.
kk

> That's a nice idea. I think the ABS is based out of canberra though.
> 
> 2008/12/5 Gnangarra <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> 
> > Would it be of value for WM-au to invite a representative from the
> > ABS to speak at a Sydney Wiki wednesday on the the change to CC?
> >
> > It would providing ABS a means of delivering the message to a wider
> > audience that's interested such things as well as being a way for
> > them to get some feed back on doing it.
> >
> >

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Re: [Wikimediaau-l] IRC meeting Sunday, 3pm?

[Karl Goetz]

On Fri, 5 Dec 2008 16:37:31 +1100
"Brianna Laugher" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Hi all,
> 
> We probably won't be having a ctte meeting this weekend, but how
> about a general meeting?
> 
> 3pm, Sunday, #wikimedia-au ?

I'll try and make it, no promices at this stage :)
kk

> 
> cheers
> Brianna
> 


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Re: [Wikimediaau-l] Our first donation!

[Karl Goetz]

On Tue, 25 Nov 2008 15:00:57 +1100
"Brianna Laugher" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Hey all,
> 
> I thought I would let you know something cool. We have just received
> our first donation! :)
> 

Cool.

> I received a couple of emails to our contact address about how to
> donate or if donations to us were tax deductible. (For the record they
> are NOT.) 

Any chance that will change?

kk
 (who should really pay his membership soon)

> cheers
> Brianna
> 

-- 
Karl Goetz, (Kamping_Kaiser / VK5FOSS)
Debian user / gNewSense contributor
http://www.kgoetz.id.au
No, I won't join your social networking group

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Re: [Wikimediaau-l] Announcement - publication with CCau

[Karl Goetz]

On Wed, 2008-11-19 at 12:26 +1000, Zero wrote:
> On Wed, Nov 19, 2008 at 11:55 AM, Brianna Laugher
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> > I think we could invent a term, although I'm not about to. The trick
> > is having a precisely strong enough - and no stronger - definition...
> >
> 
> "Communism"? Perhaps Anarchist-communism in particular. I've always
> had the idea that the whole free culture idea can be compared to
> various aspects of communism, but in a very different light, and under
> new management. I've always wondered why it's never mentioned much;
> does it not cross the mind, or are people sub-consciously or actively
> avoiding the word? Too many negative connotations.

AIUI, Communism involves pushing all assets to the state to manage -
Free culture is nothing like that. Everything is pulled back to the
people.

*reflects* I should go and look at [[Communism]] at some point...

> 
> If all else fails we could just put the definition as the title, but
> there's still no clear definition. Is it free as in beer or free as in
> speech? Perhaps both? "Gratis et Libre" sounds cool but it's far too
> fancy for the masses.

FWIW, I would *never* buy a book{let} with that cover.

> 
> What about the folks at CCau? I wonder what they've been thinking
> regarding the title.

That would be interesting to find out.
kk

> 
-- 
Karl Goetz <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>


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Re: [Wikimediaau-l] Announcement - publication with CCau

[Karl Goetz]

On Wed, 2008-11-19 at 10:46 +1100, Liam Wyatt wrote:
> Brianna Wrote:
> > Anyway dual licensing is of course a possibility, but I'm pretty
> sure
> > as long as CC-BY-SA is in there it doesn't much matter what else is.
> > :)
> 
> Yes, this is my understanding of how the new licensing of GDFL will
> interact with CC-by-sa. So long as we license it as CC-by-sa then it
> will be compatible with Wikipedia. Dual licensing is no longer a
> necessity in order to provide 'sideways-compatability'. 

Are you talking about GFDL 1.3?
kk

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Karl Goetz <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>


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Re: [Wikimediaau-l] Wikimedia Australia now open for membership

[Karl Goetz]

On Thu, 2008-11-13 at 14:51 +1100, Brianna Laugher wrote:
> To Karl,
> 
> I don't know why there is a "Sex" field (and in particular since it is
> purported to be optional the default response should be "No response",

Fair enough.

> not "Male"). It is the default fields that it comes with. Maybe it's
> so one day if I ever want to do a mail merge I know whether to put Ms
> or Mr. :P

Or you could just send me an email :P

> 
> 2008/11/13 Liam Wyatt <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
> > should there perhaps be some other demographic info requested - especially
> > education level (i.e. are you a high school student, uni, etc) and perhaps
> > age brackets. This might be good to demonstrate diversity of membership
> > which is always good when talking to gov't and perhaps the Foundation too.
> 
> Actually...
> I was just thinking recently that conducting a survey might be a
> really helpful thing to do. As well as getting demographic stats, it
> would help us find out more comprehensively which
> activities/directions members want us to focus on.

A survey would be interesting, but it shouldnt be tied to registration.
IMHO.
kk

> 
> But that would be an activity for the first elected board, so I won't
> discuss it much now (flurry of activity 'round here as it is, anyway
> :)).
> 
> cheers
> Brianna
> 
-- 
Karl Goetz <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>


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Re: [Wikimediaau-l] Wikimedia Australia now open for membership

[Karl Goetz]

On Wed, 2008-11-12 at 10:39 +1100, Brianna Laugher wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> Happy news. WMAU is now accepting members. :)

\o/

> 
> To become a member please go to
> <http://membership.wikimedia.org.au/memberdb/index.php?page=signup>
> and fill out the form there. The rest of the process is via email.
> 

Just wondering why theres a "Sex" [M/F] question?

> For more information about the process please see
> <http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Australia/Membership>
> 
> If you have any questions or encounter any problems please let me know
> (offlist is probably better).
> 

Thanks for letting us know, I'll attempt to join up :)
kk

> thanks!!
> 
> cheers
> Brianna 


-- 
Karl Goetz <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>


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