RE: [WISPA] Gov't Gets One Right

2006-03-03 Thread chris cooper
The novelty of 
it all (being a WISP) tends to wear off after about 5 years, eventually
it 
becomes about the money.

It should always be about the money.  You have to think about your
business as a separate being.  You do whatever you need to make that
critter grow and be healthy. Your first goal is to stay in business.
Your second goal should be returning shareholder value, even if you are
the only shareholder. You've taken risk, either with your own or someone
else's money.  The investor should receive a return on that investment
well above market rates to reflect the level of risk. As Tom has said
here before, we are in the sales business. Wireless is the service we
are selling. Don't get too caught up in the me vs. the big guys
argument.  Don't fall in love with the technology. Make your business
healthy, show strong ROI and when the time is right, make the right
move. Sooner or later the bigger operators will come along just because
their model holds up better than an independent operator.  They can
achieve great economies of scale, have wider reach and deeper pockets to
invest in people, marketing and technology.  Why bang your head against
the wall trying to figure out how to beat them when it is much more
productive spending that time making yourself so invaluable that they
have to take you out to get what you have.  If you examine the trends in
various communications technologies over the last 30 years- paging,
cellular, dial-up IP- they have all followed consolidation models.  The
small operator got in first, got a license where needed, hammered out a
territory and started adding customers.  Eventually, someone wanted
those customers and that territory.  For the operators that understood
the timing and opportunity equation there was money on the table.
Eventually the big operators buy enough territory and market share. Then
they can settle down to the business of getting more $$ out of this
larger customer base.  When this happens the deal making can cool off
pretty quickly.  If you are still in the game at this point your
valuation can decline rapidly. Always leave the dance while you are
still having fun.

chris




I think what you are going to find is that the big WISP isn't going to
be 
able to come to town and bully everybody. Instead, they are going to
have to 
fork over the cash or not be competitive and secure themselves.



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Re: [WISPA] Gov't Gets One Right

2006-03-03 Thread Jeromie Reeves

Quote from another email:

Lately? Nope not yet. It took them some time before they got in the Ma 
Bell's faces too. I (and others) are
trying to stop it before it happens, not try and live with it when it 
does. There is NO sector where the government
has steeped in that things really got better in the long run. Look at 
telcom, we are back to 3 super players and

a handful of once large ones trying to hang on. 

Pete Davis said the same thing but with much better words. I was saying 
I had tried to say it but not as well.


Jeromie

Kurt Fankhauser wrote:


Please explain what your talking about with the Moto.

Kurt Fankhauser
WAVELINC
114 S. Walnut St.
Bucyrus, OH 44820
419-562-6405
www.wavelinc.com


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Jeromie Reeves
Sent: Thursday, March 02, 2006 8:23 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Gov't Gets One Right

I said the same thing on the moto wireless list. We are being pushed to 
be eaten by the larger wisps or closed down. I do
not like it and can only try and fight it but I have no idea how. 
Hopefully wispa knows the direction as i do not thing part-15

knows.

Jeromie

Pete Davis wrote:

 

The faster it becomes a fundamental human right the faster we 
migrate from being entrepreneurs, and start becoming the same level as
   



 

water workers, sewer workers, trash pickup,  postal workers, and 
whatever. The more the government gets involved with something, the 
worse it gets. When the bureaucrats get to making things like this a 
required service (which they inevitably will in our lifetimes) then 
there will be no difference than a utility or postal service, with 
prices capped and profitability extinguished. Another thing that will 
take us this direction will be the mass consolidation similar to the 
250 phone companies that all became ATT in the first part of the 
1900's. They all were either bought up or squashed by the competition.
   



 


Maybe we won't all end up like that. Hard to say.

Pete Davis
NoDial.net

chris cooper wrote:

   


Not to shoot myself in the foot here, but a fundamental human
 


right?
 


That's just grandstanding.  Take a hit from the reality pipe- people
 


are
 


homeless, people starve to death right here in the good ole USA.  The
list could go on and on about folks whose basic needs and rights are
 


not
 


being met.  Im with Tom- many people just aren't willing to pay what
 


the
 


service costs. I wish they were though.

Chris




 


Broadband is a fundamental civil right and human right, Bill de
   
   

Blasio,  

 


a city council member, said during the session on Wednesday.

   
   



 
 

   



 



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Re: [WISPA] Gov't Gets One Right

2006-03-03 Thread Peter R.

News flash for you:

 This is where we are today. RBOCs and MSOs control the last mile. 
Neither has to share.


WISPs, BPL, and Muni projects will be the 3rd pipe. (I don't count 
cellular because that is RBOC).


Pete Davis wrote:

Think that's not bad for the entrepreneurs? Try starting a water 
company that competes with the city's water system. Or a power 
company. Or a 1st class mail delivery service. I don't think I can get 
$12/hr union workers to hand-deliver mail to houses for $0.39/letter 
and make a profit.


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RE: [WISPA] Pigtails..... and 5.8GHz low power....

2006-03-03 Thread Paul Hendry








Has anyone used radio to radio with
attenuators to check pigtails?











From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jenco Wireless
Sent: 03 March 2006 06:01
To: WISPA
 General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Pigtails.
and 5.8GHz low power







It's called the Butterfly from www.bvsystems.com.
It was about $500. Money well spent :-). As far as I can tell, it
is dead accurate !

















Brad H







On 3/3/06, Tom
DeReggi [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote: 





Which meter did you buy? What did it run you?















Tom DeReggi
RapidDSL  Wireless, Inc
IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband





















- Original Message - 





From: Jenco Wireless 





To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
; WISPA
General List 





Sent: Friday, March 03,
2006 12:30 AM





Subject: Re: [WISPA]
Pigtails. and 5.8GHz low power












Geta test meter. I got one from BVS Systems and LOVE it
! Roger Peters has had great piggies in the past. I just tested a
UFL from Wisp-Router and it was 2 dB better than anything else (UFL) I have
tried, but it was only 5 long, so I am sure that has something to do with
the better review. Once you have tested a few radio cards and
pigtails with this meter, you will wonder how you ever lived without it. 











Brad H







On 3/2/06, Blair
Davis [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote: 

I can't 'directly' tell which is good or bad without testing

As to what is wrong with them, I don't know.I do know that the ones
I 
tested and published to the list were all new units.They were
opened
fresh for this test. I tested some other units as well, but I felt that
it made more sense to show the results from new, 'identical' pigtails 

I plan to buy sets of pigtails from other manufactures and continue to
test as I have time...

Tom DeReggi wrote:

 The question is, how do you tell which pigtails are good and bad?
 And more importantly why are the bad ones bad? 

 Is it the cable quality, the connector quality, the crimping/soldering
 ofconnector to cable?
 Is it the Ufl connector getting bend/loose where it clamps to the
 radio connector?
 
 Is there are more durable pigtail that gets around the problem?

 Tom DeReggi
 RapidDSL  Wireless, Inc
 IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband


 - Original Message - From: Blair Davis  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: WISPA General List
 wireless@wispa.org
 Sent: Thursday, March 02, 2006 11:58 AM
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] Pigtails. and 5.8GHz low power


 Some interesting results of pigtail testing.

 Link is 7.9 miles.There is eyeball LoS with no fresnel
zone
 incursions. Antennas are V-pol.Calculated link is -63db. 

 Client end:

 RouterBoard 230 with MikroTik 2.9.13
 SR5 card set to default TX power
 u.fl to N-female pigtail
 5 ft LMR-400 jumper
 Hyperlink HG5827G 27db grid 

 AP end:

 RouterBoard 230 with MikroTik 2.9.13
 SR5 card set to default TX power
 u.fl to N-female pigtail
 5 ft LMR-400 jumper
 Hyperlink HG5817P 17db sector 

 AP reports client at -71 with -100 noise floor 

 Test u.fl pigtails new in wrapper.

 #1 AP reports client at -71
 #2 AP reports client at -82 
 #3 AP reports client at -74
 #4 AP reports client at -72 
 #5 AP reports client at -71

 Obviously, not all new u.fl pigtails are the same.

 Test mmcx pigtails new in wrapper. 

 #1 AP reports client at -73 
 #2 AP reports client at -74
 #3 AP reports client at -74
 #4 AP reports client at -75
 #5 AP reports client at -73 

 Less spread on the mmcx pigtails.The best mmcx pigtail
seems to 
 about as good as an average u-fl pigtail.However, this
could be an
 artifact of the SR5 cards mmcx port.

 Draw your own conclusions, but I will no longer trust u.fl pigtails 
 out of the box.Careful sorting of new u.fl pigtails could
improve
 signal quality by 3-4db.At a client end this might not be
worth 
 it.At the AP, IMHO, it is well worth the time and effort. 






 --
 Blair Davis

 AOL IM Screen Name --Theory240 

 West Michigan
Wireless ISP
 269-686-8648

 A division of:
 Camp Communication Services, INC

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AOL IM Screen Name --Theory240 

West Michigan Wireless ISP
269-686-8648

A division of:
Camp Communication Services, INC

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[WISPA] Fw: [Board] USF Distribution Webcast ON NOW

2006-03-03 Thread Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181



Did anyone else see this yet? If you watch it 
now, things don't start till about 15 or 16 minutes into the stream (at least 
that was the case last night).

I don't know about you guys, but *I'm* VERY 
impressed with Ben Scott from Free Press! He certainly seems to think 
along our lines. And he's very well spoken too.

Anyway, a few things caught my 
attention.

One was a Senator that said that there should only 
be one entity getting USF funds in a given area. Wha?

Another was that USF needs to be expanded to cover 
broadband.

It was mentioned that the unused TV bands should go 
unlicensed (by a senator no less).

Here's the biggest kicker though. They said 
over and over that USF has to change. And will change. They are 
looking for ideas on how to collect and distribute the funds better. It 
needs to cover communications not just telephone. Communications includes 
broadband (us, sat., cable, etc.).

I think that the WISP industry needs to jump on 
this while the iron is hot. We have two opportunities here as I see 
it. One is to get more spectrum (hopefully with usable rules) and the 
other is to get the same subsidies as the telcos get today in rural 
markets.

Please watch the video (actual viewing time of 
about 1.5 hours and most of it is enlightening or funny). Then lets start 
talking about these issues.

http://commerce.senate.gov/hearings/witnesslist.cfm?id=1708

thanks,
Marlon(509) 
982-2181 
Equipment sales(408) 907-6910 
(Vonage) 
Consulting services42846865 
(icq) 
And I run my own wisp!64.146.146.12 (net meeting)www.odessaoffice.com/wirelesswww.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam


- Original Message - 
From: Rick 
Harnish 
To: 'WISPA 
Board Members List' 
Sent: Thursday, March 02, 2006 8:21 AM
Subject: [Board] USF Distribution Webcast ON NOW


http://commerce.senate.gov/hearings/witnesslist.cfm?id=1708


Rick 
Harnish
President
OnlyInternet 
Broadband  Wireless, Inc.
260-827-2482 
Office
260-307-4000 
Cell
260-918-4340 
VoIP
www.oibw.net
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

 







___Board mailing 
list[EMAIL PROTECTED]http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/board
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[WISPA] Two issues: Bandwidth Shaper and 24x7 tech support

2006-03-03 Thread Jason Hensley



Hi all,Two separate issues here:First, what's the current 
industry favorite for a bandwidth shaper, primarily for a hotspot? All 
kinds of stuff out there. Basically looking for something that can 
rate limit down to 256kbps based on username, IP address, OR Mac 
address. Something that will also limit down based on protocol (P2P 
apps primarily of course) as well.Also, have a client that wants us to 
be able to provide 24x7 support / 99.99% SLA level service on a 1.5meg 
wireless connection and is the "backbone" for the above hotspot. I'm a 
small shop and don't have the personnel to do this. Does anyone have 
any recommendations first off on outsourcing overnight tech support, and 
second, what to charge for something like this? I'm in a rural area 
where a PtP T1 (wired) runs around $1200 per month with this kind of 
SLA. 1.5meg ADSL is only other non-wireless competition here, and no 
SLA on the DSL of course.I would appreciate thoughts on both of the 
above.
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Re: [WISPA] Two issues: Bandwidth Shaper and 24x7 tech support

2006-03-03 Thread Jory Privett



Not sure on the shaper

For the other Charge him $1000 a month and give him 
your Cell phone for after hours support. If you can not meet the SLA for 
any reason give him a credit per day ($1000/30days) for service. 
This way he gets his SLA, your still cheaper than theT-1 
solution,and you can credit him half a months service and still make 
a profit.

Jory Privett
WCCS


  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Jason 
  Hensley 
  To: WISPA General List 
  Sent: Friday, March 03, 2006 3:01 
PM
  Subject: [WISPA] Two issues: Bandwidth 
  Shaper and 24x7 tech support
  
  Hi all,Two separate issues here:First, what's the current 
  industry favorite for a bandwidth shaper, primarily for a hotspot? 
  All kinds of stuff out there. Basically looking for something that 
  can rate limit down to 256kbps based on username, IP address, OR Mac 
  address. Something that will also limit down based on protocol (P2P 
  apps primarily of course) as well.Also, have a client that wants us to 
  be able to provide 24x7 support / 99.99% SLA level service on a 1.5meg 
  wireless connection and is the "backbone" for the above hotspot. I'm 
  a small shop and don't have the personnel to do this. Does anyone 
  have any recommendations first off on outsourcing overnight tech support, 
  and second, what to charge for something like this? I'm in a rural 
  area where a PtP T1 (wired) runs around $1200 per month with this kind of 
  SLA. 1.5meg ADSL is only other non-wireless competition here, and no 
  SLA on the DSL of course.I would appreciate thoughts on both of the 
  above.
  
  

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Re: [WISPA] Two issues: Bandwidth Shaper and 24x7 tech support

2006-03-03 Thread Jason Hensley



I thought about that, but don't know how the wife 
would likeit :-)



  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Jory Privett 
  To: WISPA General List 
  Sent: Friday, March 03, 2006 3:35 
PM
  Subject: Re: [WISPA] Two issues: 
  Bandwidth Shaper and 24x7 tech support
  
  Not sure on the shaper
  
  For the other Charge him $1000 a month and give 
  him your Cell phone for after hours support. If you can not meet the SLA 
  for any reason give him a credit per day ($1000/30days) for 
  service. This way he gets his SLA, your still cheaper than 
  theT-1 solution,and you can credit him half a months service 
  and still make a profit.
  
  Jory Privett
  WCCS
  
  
- Original Message - 
From: 
Jason 
Hensley 
To: WISPA General List 
Sent: Friday, March 03, 2006 3:01 
PM
Subject: [WISPA] Two issues: Bandwidth 
Shaper and 24x7 tech support

Hi all,Two separate issues here:First, what's the 
current industry favorite for a bandwidth shaper, primarily for a 
hotspot? All kinds of stuff out there. Basically looking for 
something that can rate limit down to 256kbps based on username, IP 
address, OR Mac address. Something that will also limit down based 
on protocol (P2P apps primarily of course) as well.Also, have a 
client that wants us to be able to provide 24x7 support / 99.99% SLA 
level service on a 1.5meg wireless connection and is the "backbone" for 
the above hotspot. I'm a small shop and don't have the personnel 
to do this. Does anyone have any recommendations first off on 
outsourcing overnight tech support, and second, what to charge for 
something like this? I'm in a rural area where a PtP T1 (wired) 
runs around $1200 per month with this kind of SLA. 1.5meg ADSL is 
only other non-wireless competition here, and no SLA on the DSL of 
course.I would appreciate thoughts on both of the 
above.



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[WISPA] VoIP/PBX Gateway appliance

2006-03-03 Thread JohnnyO




I am looking for a appliance/device that will work as a VoIP Gateway/PBX for 4-8 POTS lines. I am not looking for an Asterisk solution but seeking out a plug and play appliance for under $2k or less.

I cannot get a PRI in my area - I cannot get a ISDN BRI in my area either - The only option I have is POTS lines which I can get for $23.00/mo each. 

I must have local services due to this being on a shipping channel and 911 is very critical.

Any suggestions would be appreciated.

JohnnyO


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Re: [WISPA] VoIP/PBX Gateway appliance

2006-03-03 Thread Mac Dearman



Just send me a connection fee and I will take care of the 
rest of it :-)

How many lines, whats the area code and how fast do you 
need them? With 911 of course.


Mac DearmanMaximum Access, LLC.Authorized Barracuda 
ResellerMikroTik RouterOS Certifiedwww.inetsouth.comwww.mac-tel.uswww.RadioResponse.org (Katrina 
Relief)Rayville, La.318.728.8600 318.303.4228318.303.4229





  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  JohnnyO 
  To: WISPA General List 
  Cc: Judd's List 
  Sent: Friday, March 03, 2006 5:01 
PM
  Subject: [WISPA] VoIP/PBX Gateway 
  appliance
  I am looking for a appliance/device that will work as a VoIP 
  Gateway/PBX for 4-8 POTS lines. I am not looking for an Asterisk solution but 
  seeking out a plug and play appliance for under $2k or less.I cannot 
  get a PRI in my area - I cannot get a ISDN BRI in my area either - The only 
  option I have is POTS lines which I can get for $23.00/mo each. I must 
  have local services due to this being on a shipping channel and 911 is very 
  critical.Any suggestions would be appreciated.JohnnyO 
  
  

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Re: [WISPA] Pigtails..... and 5.8GHz low power....

2006-03-03 Thread Blair Davis

I am preparing to do that next.

I just have to find some attenuators  rated for 6GHz with N connectors.



Paul Hendry wrote:


Has anyone used radio to radio with attenuators to check pigtails?

 




From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
On Behalf Of Jenco Wireless

Sent: 03 March 2006 06:01
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Pigtails. and 5.8GHz low power

 

It's called the Butterfly from www.bvsystems.com 
http://www.bvsystems.com.  It was about $500.  Money well spent 
:-).  As far as I can tell, it is dead accurate !


 

 


Brad H

 

On 3/3/06, Tom DeReggi [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


Which meter did you buy? What did it run you?

 


Tom DeReggi
RapidDSL  Wireless, Inc
IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband

 

 


- Original Message -

From: Jenco Wireless mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] ; WISPA General List 
mailto:wireless@wispa.org


Sent: Friday, March 03, 2006 12:30 AM

Subject: Re: [WISPA] Pigtails. and 5.8GHz low power


 

Get a test meter.  I got one from BVS Systems and LOVE it !  Roger 
Peters has had great piggies in the past.  I just tested a UFL from 
Wisp-Router and it was 2 dB better than anything else (UFL) I have 
tried, but it was only 5 long, so I am sure that has something to do 
with the better review.  Once you have tested a few radio cards and 
pigtails with this meter, you will wonder how you ever lived without it.


 


Brad H

 

On 3/2/06, Blair Davis [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
wrote:


I can't 'directly' tell which is good or bad without testing

As to what is wrong with them, I don't know.  I do know that the ones I
tested and published to the list were all new units.  They were opened
fresh for this test. I tested some other units as well, but I felt that
it made more sense to show the results from new, 'identical' pigtails

I plan to buy sets of pigtails from other manufactures and continue to
test as I have time...

Tom DeReggi wrote:


The question is, how do you tell which pigtails are good and bad?
And more importantly why are the bad ones bad?

Is it the cable quality, the connector quality, the crimping/soldering
ofconnector to cable?
Is it the Ufl connector getting bend/loose where it clamps to the
radio connector?

Is there are more durable pigtail that gets around the problem?

Tom DeReggi
RapidDSL  Wireless, Inc
IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband


- Original Message - From: Blair Davis  [EMAIL PROTECTED] 

mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: WISPA General List  wireless@wispa.org 

mailto:wireless@wispa.org

Sent: Thursday, March 02, 2006 11:58 AM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Pigtails. and 5.8GHz low power



Some interesting results of pigtail testing.

Link is 7.9 miles.  There is eyeball LoS with no fresnel zone
incursions. Antennas are V-pol.  Calculated link is -63db.

Client end:

RouterBoard 230 with MikroTik 2.9.13
SR5 card set to default TX power
u.fl to N-female pigtail
5 ft LMR-400 jumper
Hyperlink HG5827G 27db grid

AP end:

RouterBoard 230 with MikroTik 2.9.13
SR5 card set to default TX power
u.fl to N-female pigtail
5 ft LMR-400 jumper
Hyperlink HG5817P 17db sector

AP reports client at -71 with -100 noise floor

Test u.fl pigtails new in wrapper.

#1   AP reports client at -71
#2   AP reports client at -82
#3   AP reports client at -74
#4   AP reports client at -72
#5   AP reports client at -71

Obviously, not all new u.fl pigtails are the same.

Test mmcx pigtails new in wrapper.

#1   AP reports client at -73
#2   AP reports client at -74
#3   AP reports client at -74
#4   AP reports client at -75
#5   AP reports client at -73

Less spread on the mmcx pigtails.  The best mmcx pigtail seems to
about as good as an average u-fl pigtail.  However, this could be an
artifact of the SR5 cards mmcx port.

Draw your own conclusions, but I will no longer trust u.fl pigtails
out of the box.  Careful sorting of new u.fl pigtails could improve
signal quality by 3-4db.  At a client end this might not be worth
it.  At the AP, IMHO, it is well worth the time and effort.






--
Blair Davis

AOL IM Screen Name --  Theory240

West Michigan Wireless ISP
269-686-8648

A division of:
Camp Communication Services, INC

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Blair Davis

AOL IM Screen Name --  Theory240

West Michigan Wireless ISP
269-686-8648

A division of:
Camp Communication Services, INC

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Re: [WISPA] VoIP/PBX Gateway appliance

2006-03-03 Thread JohnnyO




Mac - you can't provide it either  Please let me know if you can...

337-774 

Let me know if you can provide local to me service - Also - will you sell me unlimited plans ? I'd be willing to pay $50.00/mo for unlimited useage. They only use about 9000-12000 LOCAL minutes per month

JohnnyO

On Fri, 2006-03-03 at 19:08 -0600, Mac Dearman wrote:

 


Just send me a connection fee and I will take care of the rest of it :-)





How many lines, whats the area code and how fast do you need them? With 911 of course.








Mac Dearman
Maximum Access, LLC.
Authorized Barracuda Reseller
MikroTik RouterOS Certified
www.inetsouth.com
www.mac-tel.us
www.RadioResponse.org (Katrina Relief)
Rayville, La.
318.728.8600 
318.303.4228
318.303.4229
















- Original Message - 




From: JohnnyO 




To: WISPA General List 




Cc: Judd's List 




Sent: Friday, March 03, 2006 5:01 PM




Subject: [WISPA] VoIP/PBX Gateway appliance










I am looking for a appliance/device that will work as a VoIP Gateway/PBX for 4-8 POTS lines. I am not looking for an Asterisk solution but seeking out a plug and play appliance for under $2k or less.

I cannot get a PRI in my area - I cannot get a ISDN BRI in my area either - The only option I have is POTS lines which I can get for $23.00/mo each. 

I must have local services due to this being on a shipping channel and 911 is very critical.

Any suggestions would be appreciated.

JohnnyO 





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