Re: [WISPA] 3ft lmr 400
Denver close enough? How many cables do you need? Marlon (509) 982-2181 Equipment sales (408) 907-6910 (Vonage)Consulting services 42846865 (icq)And I run my own wisp! 64.146.146.12 (net meeting) www.odessaoffice.com/wireless www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam - Original Message - From: Brian Rohrbacher [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Conversations over a new WISP Trade Organization wireless@wispa.org Sent: Monday, June 19, 2006 6:48 AM Subject: [WISPA] 3ft lmr 400 I need a source local (1 day shipping) to Michigan for cables. Someone who knows what their doing like Roger Peters but not in Texas and accepts credit cards. Brian -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Dual WAN Routers
I have a Hawking wireless one. Nothing to write home about thought. If there's a t-1 involved I'd think you'd want to use the cisco (or whatever) that's already on the t-1. If you are going to back up a t-1 I'd certainly look at a higher end unit than a Linksys or something along those lines. They'd be fine for backing up dsl or cable but not t-1. Check with the image stream guys. Jeff's on this list. Or check out MT. Butch sits in here too. Marlon(509) 982-2181 Equipment sales(408) 907-6910 (Vonage) Consulting services42846865 (icq) And I run my own wisp!64.146.146.12 (net meeting)www.odessaoffice.com/wirelesswww.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam - Original Message - From: Bo Hamilton To: WISPA General List Sent: Monday, June 19, 2006 7:05 AM Subject: [WISPA] Dual WAN Routers Hello fellow list dwellers! I'm in the market for a dual WAN router. CouldI get some feedback on the some that you guys and gals are using. I have some clients using me as a backup for their T1's, so Im just trying to find out wich one's are the bestto go with. thanks, Bo Hamilton NCOWirless.com [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.orgSubscribe/Unsubscribe:http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wirelessArchives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Lost the link...
That's Nusrat's new company. He's one of the original owners of Teletronics. Marlon (509) 982-2181 Equipment sales (408) 907-6910 (Vonage)Consulting services 42846865 (icq)And I run my own wisp! 64.146.146.12 (net meeting) www.odessaoffice.com/wireless www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam - Original Message - From: Eric Merkel [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Friday, June 16, 2006 6:02 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Lost the link... On 6/16/06, Blair Davis [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: A few weeks ago, I ran across a 2.4GHz 500mW amp that was a small cylinder with an n-male on one end and an n-female on the other. Slightly larger than the n-connecters and about 4-5 inches long But I seem to have lost the link to it. Anyone else seen this? Could this be it? This amp is not 500mW but 1W. http://www.shireeninc.com/?page_id=79 -Eric -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Dual WAN Routers
On Mon, 19 Jun 2006, Bo Hamilton wrote: I'm in the market for a dual WAN router. Could I get some feedback on the some that you guys and gals are using. I have some clients using me as a backup for their T1's, so Im just trying to find out wich one's are the best to go with. Mikrotik with 3 ethernet ports? -- Butch Evans Network Engineering and Security Consulting http://www.butchevans.com/ Mikrotik Certified Consultant (http://www.mikrotik.com/consultants.html) -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
RE: [WISPA] Dual WAN Routers
Bo, I would use a MikroTik box in an indoor enclosure, The RB532 w/64Megs of ram running OSPF would be easy, fast and as reliable as anything I know. Another solution if you were looking for a rack mount set up would be to get a Cisco router and drop a couple modules in it and do their version of OSPF. You can generally find a good price on some used (but guaranteed) Cisco gear on eBay at a nice price. Mac Dearman From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Bo Hamilton Sent: Monday, June 19, 2006 9:05 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] Dual WAN Routers Hello fellow list dwellers! I'm in the market for a dual WAN router. CouldI get some feedback on the some that you guys and gals are using. I have some clients using me as a backup for their T1's, so Im just trying to find out wich one's are the bestto go with. thanks, Bo Hamilton NCOWirless.com [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Dual WAN Routers
If you are familiar with RouterOS a routerboard 500 would do the trick and only run you about $175 Sam Tetherow Sandhills Wireless Dylan Oliver wrote: You might check Peplink.com http://Peplink.com for its Balance products - http://www.peplink.com/productsLoader.php?productName=balance . The 200 supports two WAN connections with max throughput of 30 Mbps, and the 700 has seven WAN ports with max throughput of 350 Mbps. They are $845 and $3995, respectively. I've been watching these guys with interest, and was happy to see their Surf product selected as the first Tropos-approved client bridge. Best, -- Dylan Oliver Primaverity, LLC !DSPAM:16,4496b95d180887450237654! -- Sam Tetherow Sandhills Wireless -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
[WISPA] VoIP as a service offering
With last week's discussion on the ability of different product lines to support simultaneous VoIP calls, I'd like to start a discussion on VoIP as a service offering. First, a little introduction. I'm in the planning stages of an ISP. I intend to target small/medium businesses (no residential) in an area that is served with other technologies (DSL). I am currently working part time doing IT for a group of small businesses, and was just about sold on a WISP last year that offered a voice/data plan as a package that would have saved money. We ended up not switching after reading about some of the pending lawsuits against the service provider! What I am trying to figure out is the best way to offer VoIP services to my customers. My main selling points on my Internet services will be reliability, service, and flexibility. And yes, I do intend to back these up. In the small business sector, it will be much easier to sell a highly reliable Internet connection to a customer if it's providing more than just access for lunchtime web browsing. Integrating voice and data will both save the customer money and justify the cost of the dedicated Internet line. So, how are the service providers out there doing it now? Acting as a reseller for a larger VoIP provider? Do you offer customers any PBX-like features or just dial access? Looking for suggestions, things to avoid, and a little experience here. Thanks! Patrick -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] VoIP as a service offering
Pat, VoIP is going to be a steady stream of anywhere from 30k to 100k depending on codec, equipment and handshake. (Think of it like the way modem's work ... you don't get 56k, you get what is negotiated. Hosted PBX or IP Centrex offerings tend to eat up more bandwidth. Can your network handle that? Can it handle people checking voicemail across your network - or do you want to sell PBX systems to allow VM and Music on Hold locally? Are you going to do it yourself and become a VoIP provider or use a turn-key solution? Lots of the 1200 VoIP Providers are smoke and mirrors, so be careful. DIY isn't a picnic either since Voice is NOT data. People can put up with no email for a little while, but not having dial-tone won't float. I have a couple of articles for the DIY-er: http://www.rad-info.net/voip/2.htm http://www.rad-info.net/voip/diy.htm This discussion might get more feedback on WISPA's VOIP list (http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/voip). Vonage got hit with 2 patent suits from VZ today (http://radinfo.blogspot.com/2006/06/vonage-hit-by-verizon-patent-lawsuit.html) It seems everyone offering VoIP is trampling a patent. Those are just a few thoughts this morning. If you want to offer VoIP, I would be happy to help you put the proper solution in place for your situation, whether that is a turn-key solution or a DIY. Regards, Peter RAD-INFO, Inc. (813) 963-5884 Patrick Shoemaker wrote: With last week's discussion on the ability of different product lines to support simultaneous VoIP calls, I'd like to start a discussion on VoIP as a service offering. First, a little introduction. I'm in the planning stages of an ISP. I intend to target small/medium businesses (no residential) in an area that is served with other technologies (DSL). I am currently working part time doing IT for a group of small businesses, and was just about sold on a WISP last year that offered a voice/data plan as a package that would have saved money. We ended up not switching after reading about some of the pending lawsuits against the service provider! What I am trying to figure out is the best way to offer VoIP services to my customers. My main selling points on my Internet services will be reliability, service, and flexibility. And yes, I do intend to back these up. In the small business sector, it will be much easier to sell a highly reliable Internet connection to a customer if it's providing more than just access for lunchtime web browsing. Integrating voice and data will both save the customer money and justify the cost of the dedicated Internet line. So, how are the service providers out there doing it now? Acting as a reseller for a larger VoIP provider? Do you offer customers any PBX-like features or just dial access? Looking for suggestions, things to avoid, and a little experience here. Thanks! Patrick -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] VoIP as a service offering
Before you talk about VoIP technology/deployment issues, you might want to address your deployment amechanism. What technology are you planning to use in order to deploy your broadband? Wireless, I would assume? If so, what hardware? Choosing the right type of hardware on the last-mile is critical to making VoIP work. After you decide on a robust wireless system, you can choose among many VoIP solutions. VoIP can range from simple POTS-Like services (dial-tone, caller-id, call-waiting) to full PBX key-system like services with conference-calling, automated attendant, intra-office transfer, etc. You can even decide how much of the system you want to maintain versus how much you want to outsource. With certain open source VoIP solutions available, you can build your own VoIP server or at the other extreme, you can simply purchase VoIP SIP-compliant phones or ATA's and use a completely outsourced gateway. You should probably consider where you want to be the VAR and where you simply want to be a reseller. Is the primary value of your service going to be broadband-access or voice-services? Larry Yunker Wireless Network Consultant [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: Patrick Shoemaker [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Monday, June 19, 2006 10:00 AM Subject: [WISPA] VoIP as a service offering With last week's discussion on the ability of different product lines to support simultaneous VoIP calls, I'd like to start a discussion on VoIP as a service offering. First, a little introduction. I'm in the planning stages of an ISP. I intend to target small/medium businesses (no residential) in an area that is served with other technologies (DSL). I am currently working part time doing IT for a group of small businesses, and was just about sold on a WISP last year that offered a voice/data plan as a package that would have saved money. We ended up not switching after reading about some of the pending lawsuits against the service provider! What I am trying to figure out is the best way to offer VoIP services to my customers. My main selling points on my Internet services will be reliability, service, and flexibility. And yes, I do intend to back these up. In the small business sector, it will be much easier to sell a highly reliable Internet connection to a customer if it's providing more than just access for lunchtime web browsing. Integrating voice and data will both save the customer money and justify the cost of the dedicated Internet line. So, how are the service providers out there doing it now? Acting as a reseller for a larger VoIP provider? Do you offer customers any PBX-like features or just dial access? Looking for suggestions, things to avoid, and a little experience here. Thanks! Patrick -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Dual WAN Routers
Thanks everyone for all the feedback!!! Bo On 6/19/06, Sam Tetherow [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: If you are familiar with RouterOS a routerboard 500 would do the trickand only run you about $175 Sam Tetherow Sandhills WirelessDylan Oliver wrote: You might check Peplink.com http://Peplink.com for its Balance products - http://www.peplink.com/productsLoader.php?productName=balance . The 200 supports two WAN connections with max throughput of 30 Mbps, and the 700 has seven WAN ports with max throughput of 350 Mbps. They are $845 and $3995, respectively. I've been watching these guys with interest, and was happy to see their Surf product selected as the first Tropos-approved client bridge. Best, -- Dylan Oliver Primaverity, LLC !DSPAM:16,4496b95d180887450237654!--Sam TetherowSandhills Wireless--WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.orgSubscribe/Unsubscribe:http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wirelessArchives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] VoIP as a service offering
Larry did a good job of laying out some of the considerations, but be aware that none of these choices exist in a vacuum. For example, if you do voice over internet your upstream is going to be a major concern in terms of both capacity and latency. Compare this with running your own voice switch with a dedicated voice upstream where your internet upstream has nothing to do with your voice upstream. We maintain redundant diverse connections to the PSTN, which you never even consider until all your customers lose their voice when your upstream has a problem. If you think running redundant diverse internet connections is complex, try the same thing with voice. -Matt Larry Yunker wrote: Before you talk about VoIP technology/deployment issues, you might want to address your deployment amechanism. What technology are you planning to use in order to deploy your broadband? Wireless, I would assume? If so, what hardware? Choosing the right type of hardware on the last-mile is critical to making VoIP work. After you decide on a robust wireless system, you can choose among many VoIP solutions. VoIP can range from simple POTS-Like services (dial-tone, caller-id, call-waiting) to full PBX key-system like services with conference-calling, automated attendant, intra-office transfer, etc. You can even decide how much of the system you want to maintain versus how much you want to outsource. With certain open source VoIP solutions available, you can build your own VoIP server or at the other extreme, you can simply purchase VoIP SIP-compliant phones or ATA's and use a completely outsourced gateway. You should probably consider where you want to be the VAR and where you simply want to be a reseller. Is the primary value of your service going to be broadband-access or voice-services? Larry Yunker Wireless Network Consultant [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: Patrick Shoemaker [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Monday, June 19, 2006 10:00 AM Subject: [WISPA] VoIP as a service offering With last week's discussion on the ability of different product lines to support simultaneous VoIP calls, I'd like to start a discussion on VoIP as a service offering. First, a little introduction. I'm in the planning stages of an ISP. I intend to target small/medium businesses (no residential) in an area that is served with other technologies (DSL). I am currently working part time doing IT for a group of small businesses, and was just about sold on a WISP last year that offered a voice/data plan as a package that would have saved money. We ended up not switching after reading about some of the pending lawsuits against the service provider! What I am trying to figure out is the best way to offer VoIP services to my customers. My main selling points on my Internet services will be reliability, service, and flexibility. And yes, I do intend to back these up. In the small business sector, it will be much easier to sell a highly reliable Internet connection to a customer if it's providing more than just access for lunchtime web browsing. Integrating voice and data will both save the customer money and justify the cost of the dedicated Internet line. So, how are the service providers out there doing it now? Acting as a reseller for a larger VoIP provider? Do you offer customers any PBX-like features or just dial access? Looking for suggestions, things to avoid, and a little experience here. Thanks! Patrick -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] VoIP as a service offering
I still believe that there's no money in voip for the service provider. Not in the long term. The money will be in the ability to offer good voip capacity but not the voip it's self. Yeah, I know, there are people making money with voip. I heard that song and dance about hot spots too. IF you are one of the few out that with just the right model, capabilities, market etc. good for you. For the rest of the WISP market, there's far more money to be made over the years offering transport. Especially if the trend for DSL and cable companies to mess up other people's voip continues. Here's the real nail in the coffin of voip: http://im.yahoo.com/feat_voice.php;_ylt=AlRactYLuOa7.Wxwqq5epPBwMMIF And that's just ONE provider. More are bound to come. Marlon (509) 982-2181 Equipment sales (408) 907-6910 (Vonage)Consulting services 42846865 (icq)And I run my own wisp! 64.146.146.12 (net meeting) www.odessaoffice.com/wireless www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam - Original Message - From: Patrick Shoemaker [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Monday, June 19, 2006 8:00 AM Subject: [WISPA] VoIP as a service offering With last week's discussion on the ability of different product lines to support simultaneous VoIP calls, I'd like to start a discussion on VoIP as a service offering. First, a little introduction. I'm in the planning stages of an ISP. I intend to target small/medium businesses (no residential) in an area that is served with other technologies (DSL). I am currently working part time doing IT for a group of small businesses, and was just about sold on a WISP last year that offered a voice/data plan as a package that would have saved money. We ended up not switching after reading about some of the pending lawsuits against the service provider! What I am trying to figure out is the best way to offer VoIP services to my customers. My main selling points on my Internet services will be reliability, service, and flexibility. And yes, I do intend to back these up. In the small business sector, it will be much easier to sell a highly reliable Internet connection to a customer if it's providing more than just access for lunchtime web browsing. Integrating voice and data will both save the customer money and justify the cost of the dedicated Internet line. So, how are the service providers out there doing it now? Acting as a reseller for a larger VoIP provider? Do you offer customers any PBX-like features or just dial access? Looking for suggestions, things to avoid, and a little experience here. Thanks! Patrick -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Spectrum sharing test proposal
Nothing specified yet. That's one of the questions. Marlon (509) 982-2181 Equipment sales (408) 907-6910 (Vonage)Consulting services 42846865 (icq)And I run my own wisp! 64.146.146.12 (net meeting) www.odessaoffice.com/wireless www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam - Original Message - From: George Rogato [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Thursday, June 15, 2006 6:23 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Spectrum sharing test proposal What frequency are they talking about. I read through the entire document and didn't see the frequency. George Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181 wrote: Hi All, Sorry for the cross post. I'm hoping that the FCC committee people will see this sooner and work on it sooner/more this way Here is the issue: http://hraunfoss.fcc.gov/edocs_public/attachmatch/FCC-06-77A1.pdf Basically the FCC is asking if they should allow two 10MHz chunks of spectrum to be used as tests. Exactly what the tests would be, what spectrum would be used, and what we should be looking for is all up in the air. I've attached my 1st draft. Please note the paragraph numbers when you respond to me so I can more easily work your thoughts into this. thanks! Marlon (509) 982-2181 Equipment sales (408) 907-6910 (Vonage)Consulting services 42846865 (icq)And I run my own wisp! 64.146.146.12 (net meeting) www.odessaoffice.com/wireless www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam -- George Rogato Welcome to WISPA www.wispa.org http://signup.wispa.org/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] VoIP as a service offering
VoIP is going to be a steady stream of anywhere from 30k to 100k depending on codec, equipment and handshake. Lets not forget that 30k packet is a 28k header with a 2k payload. Make sure your infrastructure can handle 20,000 packets per second. -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Fw: Orion 900 MHz OFDM 22 Mbps
Note: It's also a great way to inexpensively get access to small pockets of customers that one could not otherwise get to. We're going as far as 3 towers deep with ptptmptmptmp. point to point to multipoint to multipoint to multipoint. Speeds at the end are around 1 meg. Total customers on the system is over 75. We're starting to break it up a bit now. But mostly by using legacy gear that's cheaper to deploy ptp than to leave on the shelf collecting dust and taking up space. Marlon (509) 982-2181 Equipment sales (408) 907-6910 (Vonage)Consulting services 42846865 (icq)And I run my own wisp! 64.146.146.12 (net meeting) www.odessaoffice.com/wireless www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam - Original Message - From: Jack Unger [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Thursday, June 15, 2006 4:01 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Fw: Orion 900 MHz OFDM 22 Mbps Using two radios will not subject the user/network to the Tropos-effect throughput-halving as long as: 1. The two Orion channels are configured for either 5 MHz or 10 MHz channel width. Configuring for 20 MHz channel width will result in them stepping on each other and reducing throughput. 2. Separating the two Orion antenna systems far enough apart (physically) to prevent one Orion transmitter from overloading and desensitizing the other Orion receiver and thus reducing throughput. That's it. Do the above and you could have a reasonably decent way of distributing some backhaul capacity using 900 MHz. NOTE: I always advise separating the backhaul network from the access network - makes it easier to do throughput management. Simply sticking a CPE off of an existing AP and using the CPE to feed another AP while the first AP is serving throughput to end-users is (IMHO) a half-fast way to design a reliable network. jack Rick Smith wrote: Lol. Yes, you're right, but I believe they RECOMMEND putting two radios at the site... -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jack Unger Sent: Thursday, June 15, 2006 3:45 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Fw: Orion 900 MHz OFDM 22 Mbps Rick, Remember that when a CPE (or any radio) is used as an AP to relay to other radios that we really have a single-frequency repeater and the throughput capability will be halved for each additional hop. jack P.S. - If I start calling this throughput-halving effect The Tropos-effect, maybe I can motivate Tropos to add a second (non-2.4 GHz) radio to their product. :) Rick Smith wrote: $732 for each unit - cpe or AP - and the AP can serve up to 3 cpe's. Supposedly, each CPE can also be an AP to 3 more... -- -- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181 Sent: Monday, June 12, 2006 2:59 PM To: wireless@wispa.org Subject: [WISPA] Fw: Orion 900 MHz OFDM 22 Mbps Anyone know anything about these guys? Marlon (509) 982-2181 Equipment sales (408) 907-6910 (Vonage)Consulting services 42846865 (icq)And I run my own wisp! 64.146.146.12 (net meeting) www.odessaoffice.com/wireless http://www.odessaoffice.com/wireless www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam http://www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam - Original Message - From: Wireless Interactive Comm., Inc. mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To: List Member mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, June 06, 2006 11:19 AM Subject: Orion 900 MHz OFDM 22 Mbps Home http://rd.bcentral.com/?ID=4143437s=187045 Company Info http://rd.bcentral.com/?ID=4143438s=187045 How to Buy http://rd.bcentral.com/?ID=4143435s=187045 http://rd.bcentral.com/?ID=4143436s=187045 THE COMPETITION DOESN'T STAND A CHANCE ORION 900 gives you the option to expand your wireless infrastructure, while at the same time providing your clients with up to 22 Mbps effective throughput. The competition offers an average of less than 3 Mbps. But what makes the ORION 900 truly a breakthrough radio, is that it is equipped with built-in OFDM technology -- something no other 900 Mhz radio on the market can claim -- so you can be sure to get signal where you wouldn't normally expect. NOT JUST A BACKHAUL SOLUTION The diagram on the right shows just one of a few ways the ORION 900 can be used to enhance an infrastructure. It is shown as an Access Point that can connect to up to 4 unique MAC addresses, including another Access Point to even further extend the range of the wireless infrastructure. To see other examples of how the ORION 900 can be incorporated in your network: http://rd.bcentral.com/?ID=4143433s=187045 SPECIFICATIONS 900 Mhz BUILT-IN OFDM 1W OUTPUT 22 Mbps EFFECTIVE THROUGHPUT UP TO 70 km
[WISPA] Re: [TowerTalk] Vibrating Concrete...
Grin. Mine still hurt! Though building the danged addition has been at least as hard. I'm 40 now. I'm too old to be pounding nails! The fact that I'm a computer geek doesn't help much either. grin Thanks for the advice. I'm gonna pass it along to some other wisps. laters, Marlon (509) 982-2181 Equipment sales (408) 907-6910 (Vonage)Consulting services 42846865 (icq)And I run my own wisp! 64.146.146.12 (net meeting) www.odessaoffice.com/wireless www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam - Original Message - From: Pat Thurman [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181 [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, June 19, 2006 8:57 AM Subject: Re: [TowerTalk] Vibrating Concrete... Hi Marlon, Good deal!! I was just curious. I'm retired now, but was involved with design and construction for quite a while, and it seems that one of the most common misconceptions is that Fibermesh will 'replace' ordinary steel reinforcement. Not really true, although if you just relied on the manufacturers advertisements, you probably wouldn't get that impression... They seem to push the idea that the poly fibers are the be all and end all of concrete flat work... In reality, the fibers do a magnificent job of controlling plastic shrinkage and such if the mix is properly designed and is properly placed and cured. That's quite a mouthful to say, and even harder to achieve in practice... Fibermesh or Novomesh are not really good enough to actually replace rebar needed for structural reinforcement. You can find this info, but it's buried DEEP in the product data sheet... (small print of course) And YES, they can make your slab kind of 'hairy', although there are ways of dealing with that too... Anyway, congrats on completing a big job! My muscles ache just to think of it!! heh heh... G Good job!! 73, Pat K7KR Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181 wrote: Hiya Pat, Nope. With a slab on grade we didn't need any rebar anywhere other than the outside 1' of the foundation. Me being the ol' farm boy that I am and doing the work myself put in rebar on 3' centers anyway. I figured that with the rebar and the fiber (and I screwed up and ended up with an average of 5 1/2 to 6 1/2 inches thick) I'd never have to worry about the base of the house moving! Marlon (509) 982-2181 Equipment sales (408) 907-6910 (Vonage)Consulting services 42846865 (icq)And I run my own wisp! 64.146.146.12 (net meeting) www.odessaoffice.com/wireless www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam - Original Message - From: Pat Thurman To: Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181 Sent: Monday, June 19, 2006 8:03 AM Subject: Re: [TowerTalk] Vibrating Concrete... Hi Marlon, Just curious, but were you told that microfiber would replace conventional reinforcement? By that I mean, were you told that if you used microfiber that you wouldn't need to use any standard reinforcing bars/mesh for your home addition slab? 73, Pat K7KR Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181 wrote: Grin, Too true Dino! I did manage to pour 4 trucks full of concrete last year. All with microfiber in it. What I was told was that it would do nothing to stop the cracking. This has proven to be quite true. My 25x35 slab for a house addition is cracked all over. Pouring in 100* weather is bad. Not leaving a sprinkler on it for a week is worse! Next time I'll try the more concrete idea. What the fiber did do (and was claimed by the concrete guys) was to hold the concrete together. This tendency was quite clear with little chunks that were left on tools or forms. Hunks would come off but still be stuck together nicely. It was actually quite impressive. We did have a bit more trouble getting the finishing done as the fiber would stick to the tools. Once the concrete set up a bit though, that problem mostly went away and we were able to finish it just fine. And power troweling worked just like normal. One note I'd make though, when you want a nice smooth floor (like in a house) don't be afraid to run that power trowel about twice as long as you'd think you'd have to. We should have hit the floor 2 or 3 more times. I guess I'll have a nice surface for flooring to stick to though :-). laters, Marlon (509) 982-2181 Equipment sales (408) 907-6910 (Vonage)Consulting services 42846865 (icq)And I run my own wisp! 64.146.146.12 (net meeting) www.odessaoffice.com/wireless www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam - Original Message - From: Dino Darling [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: K8RI on Tower talk [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, June 18, 2006 10:07 PM Subject: Re: [TowerTalk] Vibrating Concrete... Roger asked; What are your
Re: [WISPA] VoIP as a service offering - Skype, Yahoo, MS
Marlon, He did say he was selling to SMB, not Resi. Very few small businesses are going to use Yahoo, AIM, or MS as a dial-tone replacement. Skype is free within the US now, so some will try that, but there are security concerns (growing daily) about VoIP, especially with the mandatory CALEA compliance. (http://australianit.news.com.au/articles/0,7204,19495174%5E24170%5E%5Enbv%5E24169,00.html) Weekly, ISPs come to me to offer VoIP. After the CommPartners mess, I stopped referring clients to anyone. You just don't know what the Wizard of Oz is really doing. Doing it yourself is difficult. When you take over the dial-tone of a business, you better make sure that you have 5 Nines of reliability with redundancy built-in, because if the phones are working, they are losing customers. And, Marlon, you are correct - most VoIP Providers are NOT making any money. 4Q05 delta3 did $9.1M in revenue and kept $25k in income. MSOs are probably making $$ on VoIP because they own the network, charge a higher rate, and have fixed modems that mitigate the 911 issue. The top 7 MSOs now have 10M VoIP users. When you consider that many CLECs like USLEC, FDN, ITC only have 25k customers and can barely eek out a living using wireline, you have to consider that VoIP may be difficult to profit on, too. Many will tell me that they are killing it - profitably - but these same companies have less than 1000 broadband subscribers. At a 15% take rate, that is 150 VoIP users. That is manageble and using Asterisk and a CLEC PRI in a small region could be profitable, before scale, growth, and scope start to weigh you down. Regards, Peter Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181 wrote: I still believe that there's no money in voip for the service provider. Not in the long term. The money will be in the ability to offer good voip capacity but not the voip it's self. Yeah, I know, there are people making money with voip. I heard that song and dance about hot spots too. IF you are one of the few out that with just the right model, capabilities, market etc. good for you. For the rest of the WISP market, there's far more money to be made over the years offering transport. Especially if the trend for DSL and cable companies to mess up other people's voip continues. Here's the real nail in the coffin of voip: http://im.yahoo.com/feat_voice.php;_ylt=AlRactYLuOa7.Wxwqq5epPBwMMIF And that's just ONE provider. More are bound to come. Marlon -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
RE: [WISPA] Dual WAN Routers
Title: Message are you planning on getting your customer an AS running BGP? if not -- and you're willing to roll up your sleaves a bit, you can "hack it" w/ some Mikrotik scripting (In my ISP days, one of my customers back in 2002/2003, Larry Yunker actually, was doing this b/n our connection and a Verio T1) -- not perfect, b/c you'd have to "NAT" the backup link, but it kinda works -Charles ---CWLabTechnology Architectshttp://www.cwlab.com -Original Message-From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Bo HamiltonSent: Monday, June 19, 2006 9:05 AMTo: WISPA General ListSubject: [WISPA] Dual WAN Routers Hello fellow list dwellers! I'm in the market for a dual WAN router. CouldI get some feedback on the some that you guys and gals are using. I have some clients using me as a backup for their T1's, so Im just trying to find out wich one's are the bestto go with. thanks, Bo Hamilton NCOWirless.com [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
RE: [WISPA] Dual WAN Routers
Title: Message it's a bit more complicated than OSPF if you're trying to backup ANOTHER provider's connection (assuming separate ASes, etc) -Charles P.S. -- ASes = Plural for Autonamous Systems, not that other dirty word =/ ---CWLabTechnology Architectshttp://www.cwlab.com -Original Message-From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Mac DearmanSent: Monday, June 19, 2006 10:03 AMTo: 'WISPA General List'Subject: RE: [WISPA] Dual WAN Routers Bo, I would use a MikroTik box in an indoor enclosure, The RB532 w/64Megs of ram running OSPF would be easy, fast and as reliable as anything I know. Another solution if you were looking for a rack mount set up would be to get a Cisco router and drop a couple modules in it and do their version of OSPF. You can generally find a good price on some used (but guaranteed) Cisco gear on eBay at a nice price. Mac Dearman From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Bo HamiltonSent: Monday, June 19, 2006 9:05 AMTo: WISPA General ListSubject: [WISPA] Dual WAN Routers Hello fellow list dwellers! I'm in the market for a dual WAN router. CouldI get some feedback on the some that you guys and gals are using. I have some clients using me as a backup for their T1's, so Im just trying to find out wich one's are the bestto go with. thanks, Bo Hamilton NCOWirless.com [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] true thru for Trango 900
Probably yes, but not necessarilly. It really depends on how much all the non-guaranteed users are using. My average usage per business client is 16 kbps average usage 95%tile. If your business clients have similar usage statistics, you'd do fine with the Trango capable of pushing 2.5 mbps. One of the things to understand is that most all Internet service types (T1s, DSL) are also effected by packet size just like the radio links. So if you are comparing guaranteed bandwdith T1s at 1500 mtu, its fair to compare it to Trango at full 1500 mtu. The secret is to have good bandwidth management that works on a PRIORITY basis. If the Hospitol has guaranteed bandwdith, the hospitol's bandwdith ALWAYS gets sent through first. The big advantage of wireless is it gives you the abilty to sell unused bandwidth allocated to one client to others at a lower prioirty. The question you need to ask your self is not wether you are selling the hospitol guaranteed bandwdith, it wether the hospitol uses an average of the bandwdith speed (1.5mbps) that you are selling them. If they are likely to sustain that speed for long periods of time, then maybe the additional radio is needed. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Mac Dearman [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org Sent: Thursday, June 15, 2006 5:53 PM Subject: RE: [WISPA] true thru for Trango 900 Thanks for the reply Tom. The reason I asked was I just sold a dedicated T1 to a hospital and they are currently on one of my Trango 900 AP's along with 10 other businesses. After reviewing what you posted it looks like I better hang another 900 AP just for them or find another solution! Thanks, Mac Dearman -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Tom DeReggi Sent: Thursday, June 15, 2006 4:46 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] true thru for Trango 900 Mac, As long as you are running the wired Ethernet side on 100mbps, We have been able to get an aggregate speed of 2.4 mbps in the lab and in live deployment, with average size packets. (Unfortuneately I do not remember what we declared as average size packets, but it may have been windows minimum limit of around 500 mtu). (for example 1.2 mbps in each direction simultaneously or 2.4 mbps in one direction) One way, with full size packets, we could get as high as 2.9 mbps in a lab environment. Take note that if you run the Trango at wired 10mbps ethernet, and small packets, the radio total throughput drops significantly, even though 3mbps RF is 1/2 less than the wired 10 mbps spec. Since those tests we alway run the 900 radios at 100mbps wired ethernet, when ever we can. With large packets I don't think it made much difference. We were surprised at the results. But this was an issue for us because we had installed the APs at 500ft using 10 mbps. It was the reason for a noticeable degregation of speed compared to what our original lab tests that were higher using 100mbps. To answer your question specifically, we noticed very little difference on which direction the data was going or at what percentage was going in each direction. Thats the big advantage of TDD systems and half duplex. Obviously there has to be some degregation, but not a large enough amount that we could measure it with our tools. We believe half duplex to be more efficient and less wasteful of spectrum. But that only applies when a radio can switch the direction it sends data without degregation of speed. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Mac Dearman [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org Sent: Thursday, June 15, 2006 1:13 PM Subject: RE: [WISPA] true thru for Trango 900 Has anyone ever done a test on Trango's 900MHz gear? I know it says 3Megs throughput, but what will it really do full duplex? Thanks, Mac Dearman -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Wyoming locations that need service
The only Wisp I ever heard of in Wyoming is Brett Glass, and the only place I see his posts are on isp-wireless list. I have no idea about Wyoming geography. pd Matt Larsen - Lists wrote: Shot in the dark, but if there are any providers out there that can hit these places, I am a customer for you Alcova 22495 W US Hwy 220Alcova WY82620 Bairoil503 Antelope DrBairoil WY82322 Beulah 5930 Old Hwy 14Beulah WY82712 Bondurant 13884 Hwy 191Bondurant WY82922 Cora 5 Noble RdCora WY 82925 Farson 4050 US 191 NFarson WY82932 Fort Washakie 14 N Fork RdFort Washakie WY82514 Granger 102 Pine StGranger WY 82934 Kinnear11517 Hwy 26KinnearWY82516 Moran1 Central StMoranWY83013 Opal554 Soliday StOpal WY83124 Parkman 49 Railway AveParkman WY82838 Powder River 35304 W Hwy 20-26Powder River WY82648 Recluse 488 Recluse RdRecluse WY82725 Wapiti3189 Northfork HwyWapitiWY82450 Matt Larsen [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] OT: about 70Mbps for under $6K
One of the requirements of layer 2 transport is the ability to deliver a full 1500 byte payload. Fully agree. One of the top reasons we chose Trango 5 years ago. Its abilty to pass VLAN traffic, as well as future techknowlogies such as MPLS that were identified but only emerging at the time. (although Canopy is a close competitor to Trango today, with their newer firmware features, they were not 3-5 years ago) Canopy, Trango, and Orthogon all support this in different ways, but support it nevertheless. In the same regard, we will never buy a Trango sector because of its lack of VLAN support. Does Canopy use VLAN tagging at the CPE? I didn't think they did. I thought they just did passthrough like Trango? Canopy doesn't support bandwdith management assignment based on VLANs does it? How is Canopy's support for VLAN better than Trango's? If Canopy does support it completely, it would be a valuable feature, that is underpublicized, that buyers should consider. VLAN support at the CPE has been a feature I have been begging Trango to add for years, unfortuneately they have not yet. Allthough with their new Linux platform, I'm guessing that they probably will, as it would be really easy for them to add it. I found that where VLAN was needed, the business markets, we usually put a router or switch their anyway that supported VLAN, so it wasn't necessary for the radio itself to supprot VLAN. Although, Trango's builtin bandwidth management would be usable if they supported VLANs and allowed assigning bandwidht per VLAN not jsut per subscriber radio. The largest reason we had to commit to using our own bandwdith management platform is the inabilty to distinguish between radios that supported jsut one subscriber versus a building full of multiple subscribers, therefore not able to sue radio enabled bandwidth management. If Trango had built-in VLAN (and in their bandwidth management), we could have gotten rid of our router platform and switched to name brand appliances that had trusted tried and true reliabilty but lacked the bandwidth management features that were essential (such as CISCO). PS. Who cares if Orthogon supports it, because its to darn expensive, and if you can afford Orthogon, you can afford the extra $180 to put a VLANrouter/VLANswitch behind it. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Matt Liotta [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Friday, June 16, 2006 8:17 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] OT: about 70Mbps for under $6K QinQ VLAN is interesting and all, but it is no longer the preferred way to sell layer 2 transport. Certainly, many carriers continue to use QinQ for this purpose, but that has more to do with legacy issues than a desire to use the current best practice. With the regulatory landscape as it is one of the most interesting and important market segment for WISPs is selling layer 2 transport to carriers. Quite simply, if a WISP doesn't offer it then there is a high likelihood someone else will. One of the requirements of layer 2 transport is the ability to deliver a full 1500 byte payload. This means that whatever technology is used to create the virtual layer 2 circuit is going to require a higher MTU. I know we are the only organization that I am aware of doing MPLS over fixed wireless, but I suspect that will change in the coming months. Further, older technologies such as GRE tunnels all require higher MTUs, GRE being the worst requiring an extra 24 bytes. I know this seems like just one feature out of many when selecting a radio vendor, but it is an absolute requirement for us. Canopy, Trango, and Orthogon all support this in different ways, but support it nevertheless. In the same regard, we will never buy a Trango sector because of its lack of VLAN support. -Matt On Jun 16, 2006, at 12:06 AM, Patrick Leary wrote: As a non engineer, this is the first I have ever of this as an issue and I have never heard it from customers, very large or very small. Is this a real issue (I have already passed the comments to our PLMs for the product line) for operators? I do know that with firmware version 4.0 these radios support QinQ VLAN, which I've not heard other UL radios supporting. And one VL sector with 4.0 will support 288 concurrent VoIP calls (VoIP only play, 20MHz channel). That compares to 8-10 per Canopy sector and maybe 20 on a Trango sector. Patrick -Original Message- From: Tom DeReggi [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, June 15, 2006 1:33 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] OT: about 70Mbps for under $6K Only 1512 also limits the use of many VPN technologies used to tunnel to partners, if offering wholesale transport services. For example, IPSEC. Microtik allowed us to get over the 1512 limit, as long as we were using WDS. Trango of course allowed the 1600, one of
Re: [WISPA] OT: about 70Mbps for under $6K
Great. 1540 covers just about all needs I can think of off the top of my head. I forget exactly what IPSEC used, but I believe it is less than 1540 as well. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Brad Larson [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org Sent: Friday, June 16, 2006 8:19 AM Subject: RE: [WISPA] OT: about 70Mbps for under $6K Patrick, With version 4.0 on VL the radio will support jumbo frames and that is 1540 to allow QinQ transport. Brad -Original Message- From: Patrick Leary Sent: Friday, June 16, 2006 12:06 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: RE: [WISPA] OT: about 70Mbps for under $6K As a non engineer, this is the first I have ever of this as an issue and I have never heard it from customers, very large or very small. Is this a real issue (I have already passed the comments to our PLMs for the product line) for operators? I do know that with firmware version 4.0 these radios support QinQ VLAN, which I've not heard other UL radios supporting. And one VL sector with 4.0 will support 288 concurrent VoIP calls (VoIP only play, 20MHz channel). That compares to 8-10 per Canopy sector and maybe 20 on a Trango sector. Patrick -Original Message- From: Tom DeReggi [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, June 15, 2006 1:33 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] OT: about 70Mbps for under $6K Only 1512 also limits the use of many VPN technologies used to tunnel to partners, if offering wholesale transport services. For example, IPSEC. Microtik allowed us to get over the 1512 limit, as long as we were using WDS. Trango of course allowed the 1600, one of the reasons that we chose it 5 years ago. Any plans that Alvarion will make mods to allow larger packets? I'd support Matt's comment, that limited to a 1512 MTU could severally limit its viable use for service providers, allthough Corporate clients likely could care less, as they'd just design around it, since it was for their own network. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Matt Liotta [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Thursday, June 15, 2006 10:43 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] OT: about 70Mbps for under $6K Our setup requires the following: 1500 bytes for payload 4 bytes for VLANs 4 bytes for LDP 4 bytes for EoMPLS header 18 bytes for Ethernet header That means we need an MTU of at least 1530. I only specified 1532 since that is what Canopy and Orthogon use (Trango supports 1600). Unless 1512 is your payload size, not your frame size your radios can't be used to backhaul an MPLS network. -Matt Patrick Leary wrote: Matt, I just got the reply to your question: the maximum packet size is 1512. Patrick Leary AVP Marketing Alvarion, Inc. o: 650.314.2628 c: 760.580.0080 Vonage: 650.641.1243 -Original Message- From: Matt Liotta [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, June 15, 2006 6:33 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] OT: about 70Mbps for under $6K Does it support MTUs greater than 1500? More specifically, we are looking for an MTU of 1532. -Matt Patrick Leary wrote: Okay, be forewarned that so this is a shameless plug, but the data from beta testers of our new B100 OFDM point-to-point is worth sharing. In the Texas panhandle one company is getting 62Mbps at 16 miles. In the Big Easy, a link is getting 80Mbps, but it is only a one mile shot. One guy in Nebraska told me Tuesday that the B series of radios (B14, B28, and B100) are about the most simple he has ever used (his WISP has been operational since 2001). The BreezeNET B100 was just announced as a commercial product. Like all B series, the price includes the antennas when the integrated version (antenna built-in) is bought. A full link has a retail of $7,990. Your typical discounts apply as well. And remember, since this is OFDM the B achieves some good NLOS performance in terms of building obstructions and sharp terrain. We are pretty excited about this radio as a top choice for WISP backhaul. It is targeted as a high capacity, high quality, and really simple to install backhaul for a very moderate price. Those of you wanting more info, just drop me an e-mail. Patrick -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ This footnote confirms that this email message has been scanned by PineApp Mail-SeCure for the presence of malicious code, vandals computer viruses(192).
Re: [WISPA] Wyoming locations that need service
FWIW, I already cover the same places Brett does. Most of these are out in the middle of nowhere - and I mean way the hell out there. I did get a response from Wyoming.com and it looks like they will be able to pick up a couple of them. Apparently, the US Postal Service is trying to get broadband to all of their post offices and you might check in your respective service areas to see if there are any that can't get broadband. Take care, Matt Larsen [EMAIL PROTECTED] Pete Davis wrote: The only Wisp I ever heard of in Wyoming is Brett Glass, and the only place I see his posts are on isp-wireless list. I have no idea about Wyoming geography. pd Matt Larsen - Lists wrote: Shot in the dark, but if there are any providers out there that can hit these places, I am a customer for you Alcova 22495 W US Hwy 220Alcova WY82620 Bairoil503 Antelope DrBairoil WY82322 Beulah 5930 Old Hwy 14Beulah WY82712 Bondurant 13884 Hwy 191Bondurant WY82922 Cora 5 Noble RdCora WY 82925 Farson 4050 US 191 NFarson WY82932 Fort Washakie 14 N Fork RdFort Washakie WY82514 Granger 102 Pine StGranger WY 82934 Kinnear11517 Hwy 26KinnearWY82516 Moran1 Central StMoranWY83013 Opal554 Soliday StOpal WY83124 Parkman 49 Railway AveParkman WY82838 Powder River 35304 W Hwy 20-26Powder River WY82648 Recluse 488 Recluse RdRecluse WY82725 Wapiti3189 Northfork HwyWapitiWY82450 Matt Larsen [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] VoIP as a service offering
A little more information on my situation: I'm considering VoIP only as a selling point. I don't expect to make much money on the voice service alone. I intend to use it to be able to up-sell the Internet connection, since many small businesses don't place much value on their Internet connection. I have been planning the costs of my network so far using Motorola Canopy at the network edge. With only 20-30 VoIP calls per sector supported on a good day, this wouldn't be the best platform if I were offering voice services. The alternative I've been looking at is Alvarion's BreezeAccess line, with the VL's new software version being able to support 40k packets per second if I remember correctly. Obviously there's a big price difference between these vendors. I won't be able to start offering service until June 07, so I've got some time to watch equipment vendors come out with new offerings. Anyone out there have a similar business model? Do you do your VoIP in-house or resell another provider's service? Patrick Larry Yunker wrote: Before you talk about VoIP technology/deployment issues, you might want to address your deployment amechanism. What technology are you planning to use in order to deploy your broadband? Wireless, I would assume? If so, what hardware? Choosing the right type of hardware on the last-mile is critical to making VoIP work. After you decide on a robust wireless system, you can choose among many VoIP solutions. VoIP can range from simple POTS-Like services (dial-tone, caller-id, call-waiting) to full PBX key-system like services with conference-calling, automated attendant, intra-office transfer, etc. You can even decide how much of the system you want to maintain versus how much you want to outsource. With certain open source VoIP solutions available, you can build your own VoIP server or at the other extreme, you can simply purchase VoIP SIP-compliant phones or ATA's and use a completely outsourced gateway. You should probably consider where you want to be the VAR and where you simply want to be a reseller. Is the primary value of your service going to be broadband-access or voice-services? Larry Yunker Wireless Network Consultant [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: Patrick Shoemaker [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Monday, June 19, 2006 10:00 AM Subject: [WISPA] VoIP as a service offering With last week's discussion on the ability of different product lines to support simultaneous VoIP calls, I'd like to start a discussion on VoIP as a service offering. First, a little introduction. I'm in the planning stages of an ISP. I intend to target small/medium businesses (no residential) in an area that is served with other technologies (DSL). I am currently working part time doing IT for a group of small businesses, and was just about sold on a WISP last year that offered a voice/data plan as a package that would have saved money. We ended up not switching after reading about some of the pending lawsuits against the service provider! What I am trying to figure out is the best way to offer VoIP services to my customers. My main selling points on my Internet services will be reliability, service, and flexibility. And yes, I do intend to back these up. In the small business sector, it will be much easier to sell a highly reliable Internet connection to a customer if it's providing more than just access for lunchtime web browsing. Integrating voice and data will both save the customer money and justify the cost of the dedicated Internet line. So, how are the service providers out there doing it now? Acting as a reseller for a larger VoIP provider? Do you offer customers any PBX-like features or just dial access? Looking for suggestions, things to avoid, and a little experience here. Thanks! Patrick -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] OT: about 70Mbps for under $6K
Canopy does support 802.1Q at the CPE for both the customer's ethernet interface and the built-in management interface. Not sure about VLAN prioritization but there is some sort of high-priority queue mechanism for voice or other critical traffic. Patrick Tom DeReggi wrote: One of the requirements of layer 2 transport is the ability to deliver a full 1500 byte payload. Fully agree. One of the top reasons we chose Trango 5 years ago. Its abilty to pass VLAN traffic, as well as future techknowlogies such as MPLS that were identified but only emerging at the time. (although Canopy is a close competitor to Trango today, with their newer firmware features, they were not 3-5 years ago) Canopy, Trango, and Orthogon all support this in different ways, but support it nevertheless. In the same regard, we will never buy a Trango sector because of its lack of VLAN support. Does Canopy use VLAN tagging at the CPE? I didn't think they did. I thought they just did passthrough like Trango? Canopy doesn't support bandwdith management assignment based on VLANs does it? How is Canopy's support for VLAN better than Trango's? If Canopy does support it completely, it would be a valuable feature, that is underpublicized, that buyers should consider. VLAN support at the CPE has been a feature I have been begging Trango to add for years, unfortuneately they have not yet. Allthough with their new Linux platform, I'm guessing that they probably will, as it would be really easy for them to add it. I found that where VLAN was needed, the business markets, we usually put a router or switch their anyway that supported VLAN, so it wasn't necessary for the radio itself to supprot VLAN. Although, Trango's builtin bandwidth management would be usable if they supported VLANs and allowed assigning bandwidht per VLAN not jsut per subscriber radio. The largest reason we had to commit to using our own bandwdith management platform is the inabilty to distinguish between radios that supported jsut one subscriber versus a building full of multiple subscribers, therefore not able to sue radio enabled bandwidth management. If Trango had built-in VLAN (and in their bandwidth management), we could have gotten rid of our router platform and switched to name brand appliances that had trusted tried and true reliabilty but lacked the bandwidth management features that were essential (such as CISCO). PS. Who cares if Orthogon supports it, because its to darn expensive, and if you can afford Orthogon, you can afford the extra $180 to put a VLANrouter/VLANswitch behind it. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Matt Liotta [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Friday, June 16, 2006 8:17 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] OT: about 70Mbps for under $6K QinQ VLAN is interesting and all, but it is no longer the preferred way to sell layer 2 transport. Certainly, many carriers continue to use QinQ for this purpose, but that has more to do with legacy issues than a desire to use the current best practice. With the regulatory landscape as it is one of the most interesting and important market segment for WISPs is selling layer 2 transport to carriers. Quite simply, if a WISP doesn't offer it then there is a high likelihood someone else will. One of the requirements of layer 2 transport is the ability to deliver a full 1500 byte payload. This means that whatever technology is used to create the virtual layer 2 circuit is going to require a higher MTU. I know we are the only organization that I am aware of doing MPLS over fixed wireless, but I suspect that will change in the coming months. Further, older technologies such as GRE tunnels all require higher MTUs, GRE being the worst requiring an extra 24 bytes. I know this seems like just one feature out of many when selecting a radio vendor, but it is an absolute requirement for us. Canopy, Trango, and Orthogon all support this in different ways, but support it nevertheless. In the same regard, we will never buy a Trango sector because of its lack of VLAN support. -Matt On Jun 16, 2006, at 12:06 AM, Patrick Leary wrote: As a non engineer, this is the first I have ever of this as an issue and I have never heard it from customers, very large or very small. Is this a real issue (I have already passed the comments to our PLMs for the product line) for operators? I do know that with firmware version 4.0 these radios support QinQ VLAN, which I've not heard other UL radios supporting. And one VL sector with 4.0 will support 288 concurrent VoIP calls (VoIP only play, 20MHz channel). That compares to 8-10 per Canopy sector and maybe 20 on a Trango sector. Patrick -Original Message- From: Tom DeReggi [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, June 15, 2006 1:33 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] OT: about 70Mbps
Re: [WISPA] frame size and fps - was OT: about 70Mbps for under $ 6K
Patrick, I have to agree with you that is some exciting data. However, I don't want the world to forget one of the core reasons to chose Alvarion. And it has nothing to do with new features. The abilty to have higher capacity links (14-24 mbps real), using OFDM, and being able to pull off the links because it has a high quality/high gain/low maintenance/Easy-to-Mount CPE antenna option. And VLAN at the CPE. The efficient packet per second data of 4.0 firmware of course is enormous for VOIP. 10Mhz channel options to help make up for single pol inflexibilty. Those are some of the reasons we are looking to Alvarion this year for expansion in areas where we can survive with verticle polarity only. Its a combination of all these things that create the value proposition. What I will say is that Alvarion is NOT the only manufacturer out there with some new VOIP enhancements about to be released to their radios. VOIP is becoming one of the most important criteria to support on wireless effectively. Vendors will need strong VOIP support to stay competitive. But Vendors will not be able to compete on the VOIP features alone. Vendors will compete by being able to offer the most complete solution of many required features. The 4.0 Firmware was exciting to hear about. But what I'd really like to hear about is that new low cost CPE or CPE price reduction that has been rumored the past few months. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Patrick Leary [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Friday, June 16, 2006 2:56 PM Subject: RE: [WISPA] frame size and fps - was OT: about 70Mbps for under $ 6K So I have more data for you Matt I just received about what firmware 4.0 delivers in terms of frame sizes and what it can mean to the business case. Remember, this is multipoint, not PtP. All Mbps numbers are NET throughput: Frame size Upstream Mbps/FPS Downstream Mbps/FPS 64 32.18/47893 40.29/59952 128 34.7/29308 43.79/36982 256 37.68/17065 45.03/20392 512 38.41/9025 45.51/10693 1024 37.02/4432 44.82/5366 1280 38.93/3743 45.99/4422 1518 36.69/2982 44.63/3627 This is a dramatic improvement, first in terms of net throughput the numbers are huge and I am pretty sure no other PMP system can get close to them. But the main accomplishment is a total leveling of capacity regardless of the frame size. This results in much higher predictability and ability to capacity plan. This takes net throughput over 700% higher using small 64bit frame than the previous version. Frankly it really is an exceptional achievement that will enable operators to offer very high value services even to large enterprise. With this version of BreezeACCESS VL an operator could sell an 8 voice lines/6Mbps of data to 20 enterprise customers in a single sector with a 5:1 over subscription with a voice MOS of 4.0 or higher. And with a SOHO type service like 2 voice lines and 3Mbps of data you could have 160 customers PER sector at a 20:1 over subscription. That will produce some exceptional ARPU. Patrick Leary AVP Marketing Alvarion, Inc. o: 650.314.2628 c: 760.580.0080 Vonage: 650.641.1243 -Original Message- From: Matt Liotta [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, June 16, 2006 6:47 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] OT: about 70Mbps for under $6K Patrick Leary wrote: Matt, to further your comments that you see WISPs providing layer 2 transort for carriers. We have multiple CLECs and non-CLECs buying layer 2 transport from us now. All are used to buy alternative access from fiber providers and therefore fixed wireless was a naturally next step. Further, almost all indicated they would have done it sooner, but the fixed wireless companies they approached weren't willing to offer them layer 2 transport. How about VoIP? How many of you consider VoIP to be an important part of your service future as a WISP? If so, how do you plan to support since it cannot be done decently with the other popular 5GHz solutions. That's not my opinion so much as the opinion of many larger Trango and Motorola WISPs I have been talking to lately. We are doing a significant amount of VoIP now. We have VoIP customers running on top of both Trango and Canopy radios. Canopy is a significantly better solution for VoIP since we can properly prioritize voice with Canopy, while we cannot with Trango. We also wholesale VoIP to other operators and help them --if they require it-- with getting their network ready to support VoIP. If a key goal of WISPs is growing ARPU, what are WISPs plans for doing that with whatever your current technology permits? I believe VoIP is the number one way to grow ARPU and the fact that we bundle VoIP is why I believe we have one of the highest ARPUs in the industry. -Matt -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
Re: [WISPA] Wyoming locations that need service
wyoming.com and visionary are the only other 2 i'm aware of, but something tells me you probably already know of them. folks from either of them could be on this list, i just haven't seen any posts... -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] VoIP as a service offering - Skype, Yahoo, MS
One way to cherry pick on VOIP is to specialize in the phone systems and make sure that they keep at least one POTS line. Then, even with a dead internet connection, they will still have (albeit limited) capabilitity to get out and receive phone calls, and also to handle 911. I recently sold an 11 extension, four POTS line Asterisk phone system to a small business for around $2500, phones included. There was a considerable amount of profit margin in that amount, and it beat the nearest local competitor by $3000. The customer picked up my 1meg Internet service for $49.95 a month and is paying $50/month for 3000 minutes of long distance and a toll free line. I also get at least $35 every time they need a change made to their phone service (new phones, reconfiguration, etc).Because the 911 and local dial tone is all on the POTS lines, you clevely sidestep that risk. This beats the heck out of trying to do the outsourced PBX service, because they have hardware onsite and flexibility to go with multiple providers for dial tone, including land line ones. Just another way to look at the picture. Matt Larsen [EMAIL PROTECTED] Peter R. wrote: Marlon, He did say he was selling to SMB, not Resi. Very few small businesses are going to use Yahoo, AIM, or MS as a dial-tone replacement. Skype is free within the US now, so some will try that, but there are security concerns (growing daily) about VoIP, especially with the mandatory CALEA compliance. (http://australianit.news.com.au/articles/0,7204,19495174%5E24170%5E%5Enbv%5E24169,00.html) Weekly, ISPs come to me to offer VoIP. After the CommPartners mess, I stopped referring clients to anyone. You just don't know what the Wizard of Oz is really doing. Doing it yourself is difficult. When you take over the dial-tone of a business, you better make sure that you have 5 Nines of reliability with redundancy built-in, because if the phones are working, they are losing customers. And, Marlon, you are correct - most VoIP Providers are NOT making any money. 4Q05 delta3 did $9.1M in revenue and kept $25k in income. MSOs are probably making $$ on VoIP because they own the network, charge a higher rate, and have fixed modems that mitigate the 911 issue. The top 7 MSOs now have 10M VoIP users. When you consider that many CLECs like USLEC, FDN, ITC only have 25k customers and can barely eek out a living using wireline, you have to consider that VoIP may be difficult to profit on, too. Many will tell me that they are killing it - profitably - but these same companies have less than 1000 broadband subscribers. At a 15% take rate, that is 150 VoIP users. That is manageble and using Asterisk and a CLEC PRI in a small region could be profitable, before scale, growth, and scope start to weigh you down. Regards, Peter Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181 wrote: I still believe that there's no money in voip for the service provider. Not in the long term. The money will be in the ability to offer good voip capacity but not the voip it's self. Yeah, I know, there are people making money with voip. I heard that song and dance about hot spots too. IF you are one of the few out that with just the right model, capabilities, market etc. good for you. For the rest of the WISP market, there's far more money to be made over the years offering transport. Especially if the trend for DSL and cable companies to mess up other people's voip continues. Here's the real nail in the coffin of voip: http://im.yahoo.com/feat_voice.php;_ylt=AlRactYLuOa7.Wxwqq5epPBwMMIF And that's just ONE provider. More are bound to come. Marlon -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] frame size and fps - was OT: about 70Mbps for under $ 6K
Paul, Although many have reported very high speeds with Mikrotik. Our live tests in noisy environments (wether accepted as accurate or not) showed we were not able to get the peak speeds out of Mikrotik where we could get them from Alvarion. Our comparative tests were done with the Alvarion ver 3 firmware (not 4 yet). The Alvarion speeds that we got were right on the numbers with the speeds test Alvarion tech support sent us. Actually our tested speeds were a bit higher in some some cases. (Take note we only got accurate speeds when we hard set modulation to optimal (picked the best one for the situation) modulation for testing). I do not mean this as a negative comment on Mikrotik. Our competition to Alvarion is NOT Trango, Trango does not yet have a 20 mbps product for PtMP. We look at our Trango as the best choice to tackle the worse noisy environments (for us almost everywhere :-) Our competition for Alvarion is actually Mikrotik. Mikrotik probably has the single highest value from a feature cost perspective. Why pay Alvarion price, when Mikrotik can do almost the same thing at a fraction of the cost. Mikrotik has changed this market and forced competing vendors to look at how to be more competitive. Mikrotik is doing what Trango did 4 years ago to drive the price down. (I'd argue that Trango is still doing it also). It will be real interesting to see how Alvarion performs side by side to Mikrotik. The initial look show to me that Alvarion adds significant features that make it the premium choice, possibly the leader in OFDM today, if price not part of the consideration. However, Mikrotik's flexibilty and price clearly will keep them a major player for many WISPs. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Paul Hendry [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org Sent: Friday, June 16, 2006 3:45 PM Subject: RE: [WISPA] frame size and fps - was OT: about 70Mbps for under $ 6K Are these figures in the lab? I have seen similar with a Mikrotik/N-Streme solution. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Patrick Leary Sent: 16 June 2006 19:57 To: WISPA General List Subject: RE: [WISPA] frame size and fps - was OT: about 70Mbps for under $ 6K So I have more data for you Matt I just received about what firmware 4.0 delivers in terms of frame sizes and what it can mean to the business case. Remember, this is multipoint, not PtP. All Mbps numbers are NET throughput: Frame size Upstream Mbps/FPS Downstream Mbps/FPS 64 32.18/47893 40.29/59952 128 34.7/29308 43.79/36982 256 37.68/17065 45.03/20392 512 38.41/9025 45.51/10693 1024 37.02/4432 44.82/5366 1280 38.93/3743 45.99/4422 1518 36.69/2982 44.63/3627 This is a dramatic improvement, first in terms of net throughput the numbers are huge and I am pretty sure no other PMP system can get close to them. But the main accomplishment is a total leveling of capacity regardless of the frame size. This results in much higher predictability and ability to capacity plan. This takes net throughput over 700% higher using small 64bit frame than the previous version. Frankly it really is an exceptional achievement that will enable operators to offer very high value services even to large enterprise. With this version of BreezeACCESS VL an operator could sell an 8 voice lines/6Mbps of data to 20 enterprise customers in a single sector with a 5:1 over subscription with a voice MOS of 4.0 or higher. And with a SOHO type service like 2 voice lines and 3Mbps of data you could have 160 customers PER sector at a 20:1 over subscription. That will produce some exceptional ARPU. Patrick Leary AVP Marketing Alvarion, Inc. o: 650.314.2628 c: 760.580.0080 Vonage: 650.641.1243 -Original Message- From: Matt Liotta [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, June 16, 2006 6:47 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] OT: about 70Mbps for under $6K Patrick Leary wrote: Matt, to further your comments that you see WISPs providing layer 2 transort for carriers. We have multiple CLECs and non-CLECs buying layer 2 transport from us now. All are used to buy alternative access from fiber providers and therefore fixed wireless was a naturally next step. Further, almost all indicated they would have done it sooner, but the fixed wireless companies they approached weren't willing to offer them layer 2 transport. How about VoIP? How many of you consider VoIP to be an important part of your service future as a WISP? If so, how do you plan to support since it cannot be done decently with the other popular 5GHz solutions. That's not my opinion so much as the opinion of many larger Trango and Motorola WISPs I have been talking to lately. We are doing a significant amount of VoIP now. We have VoIP customers running on top of both Trango and Canopy radios. Canopy is a significantly better solution for VoIP
Re: [WISPA] OT: about 70Mbps for under $6K
Maybe thats a question we should be asking you. What is your friend using for MPLS? I beleive Matt is using all Cisco. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Gino A. Villarini [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org Sent: Friday, June 16, 2006 8:58 AM Subject: RE: [WISPA] OT: about 70Mbps for under $6K Matt, one of my competitors has been doing mpls over fixed wireless since last year. BTW: what you are using for mpls ? Gino A. Villarini [EMAIL PROTECTED] Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp. tel 787.273.4143 fax 787.273.4145 -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Matt Liotta Sent: Friday, June 16, 2006 8:17 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] OT: about 70Mbps for under $6K QinQ VLAN is interesting and all, but it is no longer the preferred way to sell layer 2 transport. Certainly, many carriers continue to use QinQ for this purpose, but that has more to do with legacy issues than a desire to use the current best practice. With the regulatory landscape as it is one of the most interesting and important market segment for WISPs is selling layer 2 transport to carriers. Quite simply, if a WISP doesn't offer it then there is a high likelihood someone else will. One of the requirements of layer 2 transport is the ability to deliver a full 1500 byte payload. This means that whatever technology is used to create the virtual layer 2 circuit is going to require a higher MTU. I know we are the only organization that I am aware of doing MPLS over fixed wireless, but I suspect that will change in the coming months. Further, older technologies such as GRE tunnels all require higher MTUs, GRE being the worst requiring an extra 24 bytes. I know this seems like just one feature out of many when selecting a radio vendor, but it is an absolute requirement for us. Canopy, Trango, and Orthogon all support this in different ways, but support it nevertheless. In the same regard, we will never buy a Trango sector because of its lack of VLAN support. -Matt On Jun 16, 2006, at 12:06 AM, Patrick Leary wrote: As a non engineer, this is the first I have ever of this as an issue and I have never heard it from customers, very large or very small. Is this a real issue (I have already passed the comments to our PLMs for the product line) for operators? I do know that with firmware version 4.0 these radios support QinQ VLAN, which I've not heard other UL radios supporting. And one VL sector with 4.0 will support 288 concurrent VoIP calls (VoIP only play, 20MHz channel). That compares to 8-10 per Canopy sector and maybe 20 on a Trango sector. Patrick -Original Message- From: Tom DeReggi [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, June 15, 2006 1:33 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] OT: about 70Mbps for under $6K Only 1512 also limits the use of many VPN technologies used to tunnel to partners, if offering wholesale transport services. For example, IPSEC. Microtik allowed us to get over the 1512 limit, as long as we were using WDS. Trango of course allowed the 1600, one of the reasons that we chose it 5 years ago. Any plans that Alvarion will make mods to allow larger packets? I'd support Matt's comment, that limited to a 1512 MTU could severally limit its viable use for service providers, allthough Corporate clients likely could care less, as they'd just design around it, since it was for their own network. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Matt Liotta [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Thursday, June 15, 2006 10:43 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] OT: about 70Mbps for under $6K Our setup requires the following: 1500 bytes for payload 4 bytes for VLANs 4 bytes for LDP 4 bytes for EoMPLS header 18 bytes for Ethernet header That means we need an MTU of at least 1530. I only specified 1532 since that is what Canopy and Orthogon use (Trango supports 1600). Unless 1512 is your payload size, not your frame size your radios can't be used to backhaul an MPLS network. -Matt Patrick Leary wrote: Matt, I just got the reply to your question: the maximum packet size is 1512. Patrick Leary AVP Marketing Alvarion, Inc. o: 650.314.2628 c: 760.580.0080 Vonage: 650.641.1243 -Original Message- From: Matt Liotta [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, June 15, 2006 6:33 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] OT: about 70Mbps for under $6K Does it support MTUs greater than 1500? More specifically, we are looking for an MTU of 1532. -Matt Patrick Leary wrote: Okay, be forewarned that so this is a shameless plug, but the data from beta testers of our new B100 OFDM point-to-point is worth sharing. In the Texas panhandle one company is getting
Re: [WISPA] OT: about 70Mbps for under $6K
On a side note, we have had much higher results per sector using Trango for VOIP (before any VOIP enhancement.). Unfortuneately we don't have concrete real world data to report, but its pretty high. We are doing more detailed tests probably in the next week or so. (as soon as we get our VOIP server built) Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Patrick Shoemaker [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Friday, June 16, 2006 6:43 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] OT: about 70Mbps for under $6K http://motorola.canopywireless.com/fp/downlink.php?id=81af5294d462cbcbf93ee9f1ea2599fd That moto whitepaper claims 26-28 calls per AP on the advantage platform using 50-50 up/down data ratio. Calls per AP drops to 13-18 when using 25-75 up/down ratio. Patrick Jon Langeler wrote: Patrick, my string-and-can wifi asterisk ap does more than 10 calls! :-) Honestly, 288 G711 calls is probably more towards the high end. Whether you would like to realize it or not, canopy has come a ways over the years. If you consult with your engineers I'm sure you'll conclude that a Canopy AP/SU(14Mbps aggregate) could do a LOT more than 10 calls... Jon Langeler Michwave Tech. Patrick Leary wrote: As a non engineer, this is the first I have ever of this as an issue and I have never heard it from customers, very large or very small. Is this a real issue (I have already passed the comments to our PLMs for the product line) for operators? I do know that with firmware version 4.0 these radios support QinQ VLAN, which I've not heard other UL radios supporting. And one VL sector with 4.0 will support 288 concurrent VoIP calls (VoIP only play, 20MHz channel). That compares to 8-10 per Canopy sector and maybe 20 on a Trango sector. Patrick -Original Message- From: Tom DeReggi [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, June 15, 2006 1:33 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] OT: about 70Mbps for under $6K Only 1512 also limits the use of many VPN technologies used to tunnel to partners, if offering wholesale transport services. For example, IPSEC. Microtik allowed us to get over the 1512 limit, as long as we were using WDS. Trango of course allowed the 1600, one of the reasons that we chose it 5 years ago. Any plans that Alvarion will make mods to allow larger packets? I'd support Matt's comment, that limited to a 1512 MTU could severally limit its viable use for service providers, allthough Corporate clients likely could care less, as they'd just design around it, since it was for their own network. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Matt Liotta [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Thursday, June 15, 2006 10:43 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] OT: about 70Mbps for under $6K Our setup requires the following: 1500 bytes for payload 4 bytes for VLANs 4 bytes for LDP 4 bytes for EoMPLS header 18 bytes for Ethernet header That means we need an MTU of at least 1530. I only specified 1532 since that is what Canopy and Orthogon use (Trango supports 1600). Unless 1512 is your payload size, not your frame size your radios can't be used to backhaul an MPLS network. -Matt Patrick Leary wrote: Matt, I just got the reply to your question: the maximum packet size is 1512. Patrick Leary AVP Marketing Alvarion, Inc. o: 650.314.2628 c: 760.580.0080 Vonage: 650.641.1243 -Original Message- From: Matt Liotta [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, June 15, 2006 6:33 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] OT: about 70Mbps for under $6K Does it support MTUs greater than 1500? More specifically, we are looking for an MTU of 1532. -Matt Patrick Leary wrote: Okay, be forewarned that so this is a shameless plug, but the data from beta testers of our new B100 OFDM point-to-point is worth sharing. In the Texas panhandle one company is getting 62Mbps at 16 miles. In the Big Easy, a link is getting 80Mbps, but it is only a one mile shot. One guy in Nebraska told me Tuesday that the B series of radios (B14, B28, and B100) are about the most simple he has ever used (his WISP has been operational since 2001). The BreezeNET B100 was just announced as a commercial product. Like all B series, the price includes the antennas when the integrated version (antenna built-in) is bought. A full link has a retail of $7,990. Your typical discounts apply as well. And remember, since this is OFDM the B achieves some good NLOS performance in terms of building obstructions and sharp terrain. We are pretty excited about this radio as a top choice for WISP backhaul. It is targeted as a high capacity, high quality, and really simple to install backhaul for a very moderate price. Those of you wanting more info, just drop me an e-mail. Patrick -- WISPA Wireless
Re: [WISPA] OT: about 70Mbps for under $6K
Matt brings out a good point that shows the benefit of PTPs and Syncing feature of Canopy. I don't deny these advantages, and they can be beneficial in many cases. However, don't forget that your equipment costs go up at more than double per new customer compared to PtMP deployments where each new customer is jsut a CPE. PtP model, each new customer is 2 grand. (canopy) PtMP model, First customer is $1500. (Trango) PtMP model, each new customer is $500. (Trango) And this is BEFORE you consider roof right fees. I'd rather pay $200 per month for 1 AP antenna than 5 AP/PTP end point antennas. One of the biggest advantages of Wireless si the abilty to oversubscribe and resell unused capacity. Few people use their capacity. PTP deployments prevent that. There are arguements that in the long run, the PTP could be preferred for avoiding remote interference, or higher capacity for the end game. But from a startup and profit point of view the PtMP method offers a clear advantage, and reduces risk and/or long term liabilty if leasing. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Matt Liotta [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Friday, June 16, 2006 7:18 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] OT: about 70Mbps for under $6K You don't need connectorized backhauls. The sync functionality alone allows you to densely colocate backhauls. We've had as many as 5 Canopy backhauls mounted within feet of each other all operating on the same channel. -Matt On Jun 16, 2006, at 1:04 PM, Jon Langeler wrote: It's theoretically possible to engineer up to 8 equally seperated connectorized Canopy backhauls on a tower using alternating polarizations and just one channel. Let's just say this is not something you'll find in the Canopy manual :-) Jon Langeler Michwave Tech. Travis Johnson wrote: Matt, How do you fit more than 10-12 of those type of dedicated links on a single tower? Travis Microserv Matt Liotta wrote: We rarely use multi-point systems for customers and when we do they are either small businesses with very little voice and data needs or they are just data customers. All of our customers with any significant amount of voice are running on dedicated radios. I would say our average customer buys 12 lines of voice and delivering that over a Canopy backhaul works just fine. -Matt Patrick Leary wrote: So you agree then that being able to do VoIP is key. I'd like to hear more about your experiences with VoIP. Is your solution actually doing it well or is that your idea of doing VoIP well is 8 only concurrent calls per sector so long as the quality is decent for those few calls? We have talked to many very users of other common 5GHz brands these past few week and we have been consistently told that performance is just dandy until you bump up against 8 calls. That is a less than 50 call per cell limit, which does not seem like enough to justify the investments needed on the NOC end for the softswitch. How do you define good VoIP performance Matt? Patrick Leary AVP Marketing Alvarion, Inc. o: 650.314.2628 c: 760.580.0080 Vonage: 650.641.1243 -Original Message- From: Matt Liotta [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, June 16, 2006 6:47 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] OT: about 70Mbps for under $6K Patrick Leary wrote: Matt, to further your comments that you see WISPs providing layer 2 transort for carriers. We have multiple CLECs and non-CLECs buying layer 2 transport from us now. All are used to buy alternative access from fiber providers and therefore fixed wireless was a naturally next step. Further, almost all indicated they would have done it sooner, but the fixed wireless companies they approached weren't willing to offer them layer 2 transport. How about VoIP? How many of you consider VoIP to be an important part of your service future as a WISP? If so, how do you plan to support since it cannot be done decently with the other popular 5GHz solutions. That's not my opinion so much as the opinion of many larger Trango and Motorola WISPs I have been talking to lately. We are doing a significant amount of VoIP now. We have VoIP customers running on top of both Trango and Canopy radios. Canopy is a significantly better solution for VoIP since we can properly prioritize voice with Canopy, while we cannot with Trango. We also wholesale VoIP to other operators and help them --if they require it-- with getting their network ready to support VoIP. If a key goal of WISPs is growing ARPU, what are WISPs plans for doing that with whatever your current technology permits? I believe VoIP is the number one way to grow ARPU and the fact that we bundle VoIP is why I believe we have one of the highest ARPUs in the industry. -Matt -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
Re: [WISPA] Dual WAN Routers
Unlesss your doing BGP/OSPF or something fancy, might want to check out www.hotbrick.com ~$250. You can configure some nice little things(email alert, universal client on LAN, services 'binding', desired loadbalancing %, etc.)in a matter of minutes that would take considerably longer on a Mikrotik(time=money right?). An this is coming from a Mikrotik fan!!! Now if Mikrotik started developing wizards like they have for the hotspot setup... Jon Langeler Michwave Tech Bo Hamilton wrote: Hello fellow list dwellers! I'm in the market for a dual WAN router. Could I get some feedback on the some that you guys and gals are using. I have some clients using me as a backup for their T1's, so Im just trying to find out wich one's are the best to go with. thanks, Bo Hamilton NCOWirless.com [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] VoIP as a service offering - Skype, Yahoo, MS
I still believe that there's no money in voip for the service provider. Not in the long term. Yes, but there may be no money in wireless connectivity either, if you loose all your subs to competitiors that offered voice, because consumers want VOIP. Or at least they think they do. Once they figure out VOIP may not be all they imagined, you already lost them, and they likely won't want to waste their time switching back with out adequate reason. I'd argue its worth selling VOIP, even if jsut at a breakeven, just so all the otehr VOIP cusotmers won;t constantly blaim your wireless network for the cause of their low VOIP quality, and cause bad will. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Peter R. [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Monday, June 19, 2006 12:37 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] VoIP as a service offering - Skype, Yahoo, MS Marlon, He did say he was selling to SMB, not Resi. Very few small businesses are going to use Yahoo, AIM, or MS as a dial-tone replacement. Skype is free within the US now, so some will try that, but there are security concerns (growing daily) about VoIP, especially with the mandatory CALEA compliance. (http://australianit.news.com.au/articles/0,7204,19495174%5E24170%5E%5Enbv%5E24169,00.html) Weekly, ISPs come to me to offer VoIP. After the CommPartners mess, I stopped referring clients to anyone. You just don't know what the Wizard of Oz is really doing. Doing it yourself is difficult. When you take over the dial-tone of a business, you better make sure that you have 5 Nines of reliability with redundancy built-in, because if the phones are working, they are losing customers. And, Marlon, you are correct - most VoIP Providers are NOT making any money. 4Q05 delta3 did $9.1M in revenue and kept $25k in income. MSOs are probably making $$ on VoIP because they own the network, charge a higher rate, and have fixed modems that mitigate the 911 issue. The top 7 MSOs now have 10M VoIP users. When you consider that many CLECs like USLEC, FDN, ITC only have 25k customers and can barely eek out a living using wireline, you have to consider that VoIP may be difficult to profit on, too. Many will tell me that they are killing it - profitably - but these same companies have less than 1000 broadband subscribers. At a 15% take rate, that is 150 VoIP users. That is manageble and using Asterisk and a CLEC PRI in a small region could be profitable, before scale, growth, and scope start to weigh you down. Regards, Peter Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181 wrote: I still believe that there's no money in voip for the service provider. Not in the long term. The money will be in the ability to offer good voip capacity but not the voip it's self. Yeah, I know, there are people making money with voip. I heard that song and dance about hot spots too. IF you are one of the few out that with just the right model, capabilities, market etc. good for you. For the rest of the WISP market, there's far more money to be made over the years offering transport. Especially if the trend for DSL and cable companies to mess up other people's voip continues. Here's the real nail in the coffin of voip: http://im.yahoo.com/feat_voice.php;_ylt=AlRactYLuOa7.Wxwqq5epPBwMMIF And that's just ONE provider. More are bound to come. Marlon -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] VoIP as a service offering - Skype, Yahoo, MS
I think the problem is most WISP's don't realize the extra support costs for VoIP. More support calls, longer troubleshooting time, etc... so really they are loosing money. I don't believe there is any real money in it either... cell phones will be the choice 5-10 years from now. VoIP is the bridge to get there. Of course, I'm talking residential users... business users are a little different... although we will never switch our business lines (12 of them) to VoIP. I've never heard a VoIP call that sounded as good as a POTS line... :) Travis Microserv Tom DeReggi wrote: I still believe that there's no money in voip for the service provider. Not in the long term. Yes, but there may be no money in wireless connectivity either, if you loose all your subs to competitiors that offered voice, because consumers want VOIP. Or at least they think they do. Once they figure out VOIP may not be all they imagined, you already lost them, and they likely won't want to waste their time switching back with out adequate reason. I'd argue its worth selling VOIP, even if jsut at a breakeven, just so all the otehr VOIP cusotmers won;t constantly blaim your wireless network for the cause of their low VOIP quality, and cause bad will. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Peter R. [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Monday, June 19, 2006 12:37 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] VoIP as a service offering - Skype, Yahoo, MS Marlon, He did say he was selling to SMB, not Resi. Very few small businesses are going to use Yahoo, AIM, or MS as a dial-tone replacement. Skype is free within the US now, so some will try that, but there are security concerns (growing daily) about VoIP, especially with the mandatory CALEA compliance. (http://australianit.news.com.au/articles/0,7204,19495174%5E24170%5E%5Enbv%5E24169,00.html) Weekly, ISPs come to me to offer VoIP. After the CommPartners mess, I stopped referring clients to anyone. You just don't know what the Wizard of Oz is really doing. Doing it yourself is difficult. When you take over the dial-tone of a business, you better make sure that you have 5 Nines of reliability with redundancy built-in, because if the phones are working, they are losing customers. And, Marlon, you are correct - most VoIP Providers are NOT making any money. 4Q05 delta3 did $9.1M in revenue and kept $25k in income. MSOs are probably making $$ on VoIP because they own the network, charge a higher rate, and have fixed modems that mitigate the 911 issue. The top 7 MSOs now have 10M VoIP users. When you consider that many CLECs like USLEC, FDN, ITC only have 25k customers and can barely eek out a living using wireline, you have to consider that VoIP may be difficult to profit on, too. Many will tell me that they are killing it - profitably - but these same companies have less than 1000 broadband subscribers. At a 15% take rate, that is 150 VoIP users. That is manageble and using Asterisk and a CLEC PRI in a small region could be profitable, before scale, growth, and scope start to weigh you down. Regards, Peter Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181 wrote: I still believe that there's no money in voip for the service provider. Not in the long term. The money will be in the ability to offer good voip capacity but not the voip it's self. Yeah, I know, there are people making money with voip. I heard that song and dance about hot spots too. IF you are one of the few out that with just the right model, capabilities, market etc. good for you. For the rest of the WISP market, there's far more money to be made over the years offering transport. Especially if the trend for DSL and cable companies to mess up other people's voip continues. Here's the real nail in the coffin of voip: http://im.yahoo.com/feat_voice.php;_ylt=AlRactYLuOa7.Wxwqq5epPBwMMIF And that's just ONE provider. More are bound to come. Marlon -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
RE: [WISPA] OT: about 70Mbps for under $6K
Theyre Cisco too Gino A. Villarini [EMAIL PROTECTED] Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp. tel 787.273.4143 fax 787.273.4145 -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Tom DeReggi Sent: Monday, June 19, 2006 6:38 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] OT: about 70Mbps for under $6K Maybe thats a question we should be asking you. What is your friend using for MPLS? I beleive Matt is using all Cisco. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Gino A. Villarini [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org Sent: Friday, June 16, 2006 8:58 AM Subject: RE: [WISPA] OT: about 70Mbps for under $6K Matt, one of my competitors has been doing mpls over fixed wireless since last year. BTW: what you are using for mpls ? Gino A. Villarini [EMAIL PROTECTED] Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp. tel 787.273.4143 fax 787.273.4145 -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Matt Liotta Sent: Friday, June 16, 2006 8:17 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] OT: about 70Mbps for under $6K QinQ VLAN is interesting and all, but it is no longer the preferred way to sell layer 2 transport. Certainly, many carriers continue to use QinQ for this purpose, but that has more to do with legacy issues than a desire to use the current best practice. With the regulatory landscape as it is one of the most interesting and important market segment for WISPs is selling layer 2 transport to carriers. Quite simply, if a WISP doesn't offer it then there is a high likelihood someone else will. One of the requirements of layer 2 transport is the ability to deliver a full 1500 byte payload. This means that whatever technology is used to create the virtual layer 2 circuit is going to require a higher MTU. I know we are the only organization that I am aware of doing MPLS over fixed wireless, but I suspect that will change in the coming months. Further, older technologies such as GRE tunnels all require higher MTUs, GRE being the worst requiring an extra 24 bytes. I know this seems like just one feature out of many when selecting a radio vendor, but it is an absolute requirement for us. Canopy, Trango, and Orthogon all support this in different ways, but support it nevertheless. In the same regard, we will never buy a Trango sector because of its lack of VLAN support. -Matt On Jun 16, 2006, at 12:06 AM, Patrick Leary wrote: As a non engineer, this is the first I have ever of this as an issue and I have never heard it from customers, very large or very small. Is this a real issue (I have already passed the comments to our PLMs for the product line) for operators? I do know that with firmware version 4.0 these radios support QinQ VLAN, which I've not heard other UL radios supporting. And one VL sector with 4.0 will support 288 concurrent VoIP calls (VoIP only play, 20MHz channel). That compares to 8-10 per Canopy sector and maybe 20 on a Trango sector. Patrick -Original Message- From: Tom DeReggi [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, June 15, 2006 1:33 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] OT: about 70Mbps for under $6K Only 1512 also limits the use of many VPN technologies used to tunnel to partners, if offering wholesale transport services. For example, IPSEC. Microtik allowed us to get over the 1512 limit, as long as we were using WDS. Trango of course allowed the 1600, one of the reasons that we chose it 5 years ago. Any plans that Alvarion will make mods to allow larger packets? I'd support Matt's comment, that limited to a 1512 MTU could severally limit its viable use for service providers, allthough Corporate clients likely could care less, as they'd just design around it, since it was for their own network. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Matt Liotta [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Thursday, June 15, 2006 10:43 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] OT: about 70Mbps for under $6K Our setup requires the following: 1500 bytes for payload 4 bytes for VLANs 4 bytes for LDP 4 bytes for EoMPLS header 18 bytes for Ethernet header That means we need an MTU of at least 1530. I only specified 1532 since that is what Canopy and Orthogon use (Trango supports 1600). Unless 1512 is your payload size, not your frame size your radios can't be used to backhaul an MPLS network. -Matt Patrick Leary wrote: Matt, I just got the reply to your question: the maximum packet size is 1512. Patrick Leary AVP Marketing Alvarion, Inc. o: 650.314.2628 c: 760.580.0080 Vonage: 650.641.1243 -Original Message- From: Matt Liotta [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent:
RE: [WISPA] VoIP as a service offering - Skype, Yahoo, MS
Tom, I've been happy with my Lingo for 2 years...$19.95 a month and free calling to Europe, too...which I do. I ported both my SBC (ATT) numbers. I thought great service, cheap calling, decent quality, super features... I convinced my brother in New York to convert. He's been struck by lightening twice in a year and it has taken weeks...yes weeks to convince the Lingo support personnel that we know that, when the link light no longer is active, that the box is broken. Both times... Support might be the killer. You may be right on the dime. . . . -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Tom DeReggi Sent: Monday, June 19, 2006 6:24 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] VoIP as a service offering - Skype, Yahoo, MS I still believe that there's no money in voip for the service provider. Not in the long term. Yes, but there may be no money in wireless connectivity either, if you loose all your subs to competitiors that offered voice, because consumers want VOIP. Or at least they think they do. Once they figure out VOIP may not be all they imagined, you already lost them, and they likely won't want to waste their time switching back with out adequate reason. I'd argue its worth selling VOIP, even if jsut at a breakeven, just so all the otehr VOIP cusotmers won;t constantly blaim your wireless network for the cause of their low VOIP quality, and cause bad will. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Peter R. [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Monday, June 19, 2006 12:37 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] VoIP as a service offering - Skype, Yahoo, MS Marlon, He did say he was selling to SMB, not Resi. Very few small businesses are going to use Yahoo, AIM, or MS as a dial-tone replacement. Skype is free within the US now, so some will try that, but there are security concerns (growing daily) about VoIP, especially with the mandatory CALEA compliance. (http://australianit.news.com.au/articles/0,7204,19495174%5E24170%5E%5Enbv%5 E24169,00.html) Weekly, ISPs come to me to offer VoIP. After the CommPartners mess, I stopped referring clients to anyone. You just don't know what the Wizard of Oz is really doing. Doing it yourself is difficult. When you take over the dial-tone of a business, you better make sure that you have 5 Nines of reliability with redundancy built-in, because if the phones are working, they are losing customers. And, Marlon, you are correct - most VoIP Providers are NOT making any money. 4Q05 delta3 did $9.1M in revenue and kept $25k in income. MSOs are probably making $$ on VoIP because they own the network, charge a higher rate, and have fixed modems that mitigate the 911 issue. The top 7 MSOs now have 10M VoIP users. When you consider that many CLECs like USLEC, FDN, ITC only have 25k customers and can barely eek out a living using wireline, you have to consider that VoIP may be difficult to profit on, too. Many will tell me that they are killing it - profitably - but these same companies have less than 1000 broadband subscribers. At a 15% take rate, that is 150 VoIP users. That is manageble and using Asterisk and a CLEC PRI in a small region could be profitable, before scale, growth, and scope start to weigh you down. Regards, Peter Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181 wrote: I still believe that there's no money in voip for the service provider. Not in the long term. The money will be in the ability to offer good voip capacity but not the voip it's self. Yeah, I know, there are people making money with voip. I heard that song and dance about hot spots too. IF you are one of the few out that with just the right model, capabilities, market etc. good for you. For the rest of the WISP market, there's far more money to be made over the years offering transport. Especially if the trend for DSL and cable companies to mess up other people's voip continues. Here's the real nail in the coffin of voip: http://im.yahoo.com/feat_voice.php;_ylt=AlRactYLuOa7.Wxwqq5epPBwMMIF And that's just ONE provider. More are bound to come. Marlon -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
