Re: [WISPA] [Mesh] Fwd: [Battlemesh] FCC Contacts about Wifi Regulations

[Too4Short]

 
In a message dated 8/4/2016 1:54:05 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time,  
mi...@tnode.com writes:

Hi!

Forwarding.


Mitar

 Forwarded  Message 
From: Eric Schultz  
Subject: [Battlemesh] FCC Contacts  about Wifi Regulations
To: Battle of the Mesh Mailing List  

All,

I wanted to let folks at  Battlemesh know that the FCC reached out to prpl
Foundation about their  U-NII Security Requirements. While we've discussed
this on some public prpl  lists (open...@lists.prplfoundation.org and
f...@lists.prplfoundation.org),  I wanted to also pass it along here.

As background, staff from the FCC  contacted us in late June to set up a
meeting about the U-NII requirements.  It was very introductory and we
didn't get into details but they did  express that they wanted to continue
the dialogue. We've reached out to the  FCC to try to setup a meeting
between the FCC and important open source  community members, including in
the OpenWrt/LEDE community, but as of yet  nothing has been agreed upon.

While the dialogue is still early, the  FCC has asked that anyone interested
file comments on their docket with  suggestions about ways to address wifi
interference as well as the pros and  cons of different approaches. I
believe they are looking to try to finalize  rules in the next few months so
I encourage folks to submit their comments  as soon as possible.

To submit comments, please visit and  https://www.fcc.gov/ecfs/filings and
using Proceeding No: 15-170. I  strongly encourage interested parties to
contact the FCC through this  mechanism.

Thanks,

Eric

-- 
Eric Schultz, Community  Manager, prpl  Foundation
http://www.prplfoundation.org
eschu...@prplfoundation.org
cell:  920-539-0404


--  
http://mitar.tnode.com/
https://twitter.com/mitar_m
___
mesh  mailing  list
m...@lists.sudoroom.org
https://sudoroom.org/lists/listinfo/mesh

___
Wireless mailing list
Wireless@wispa.org
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Re: [WISPA] Mesh

[Ralph]

I have done a lot of muni mesh and know of no cities they have.
We played around with their Pacman-looking CPE device though.


-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Rogelio
Sent: Wednesday, August 18, 2010 10:09 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Mesh

On Mon, Aug 9, 2010 at 10:42 AM, RickG rgunder...@gmail.com wrote:
 Are there any Munis using Ruckus?

They have a city in India, I believe.

(Can anyone else confirm this?  I can't remember the city)




WISPA Wants You! Join today!
http://signup.wispa.org/


 
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/





WISPA Wants You! Join today!
http://signup.wispa.org/

 
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/

Re: [WISPA] Mesh

[Rogelio]

On Mon, Aug 9, 2010 at 10:42 AM, RickG rgunder...@gmail.com wrote:
 Are there any Munis using Ruckus?

They have a city in India, I believe.

(Can anyone else confirm this?  I can't remember the city)



WISPA Wants You! Join today!
http://signup.wispa.org/

 
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/

Re: [WISPA] Mesh

[Justin Wilson]

Mumbai had a test network setup in part of the city last I knew.  Not
sure the purpose.
-- 
Justin Wilson j...@mtin.net
http://www.mtin.net/blog ­ xISP News
http://www.twitter.com/j2sw ­ Follow me on Twitter
Wisp Consulting ­ Tower Climbing ­ Network Support




From: Rogelio scubac...@gmail.com
Reply-To: scubac...@gmail.com, WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2010 19:09:09 -0700
To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Mesh

On Mon, Aug 9, 2010 at 10:42 AM, RickG rgunder...@gmail.com wrote:
 Are there any Munis using Ruckus?

They have a city in India, I believe.

(Can anyone else confirm this?  I can't remember the city)




WISPA Wants You! Join today!
http://signup.wispa.org/


 
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/





WISPA Wants You! Join today!
http://signup.wispa.org/

 
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/

Re: [WISPA] Mesh

[L. Aaron Kaplan]

On Aug 10, 2010, at 4:05 AM, Ralph wrote:

 I have one or two Ruckus CPEs (the ones that look like Pacman) I intend to 
 try on one of our 4 muni mesh systems, but as of yet have not had a chance. 
 We use a lot of the Pepwave/Peplinks though.
  
  

Out of curiosity - what mesh algorithm does Pepwave actually use?

a.





PGP.sig
Description: This is a digitally signed message part



WISPA Wants You! Join today!
http://signup.wispa.org/

 
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/

Re: [WISPA] Mesh

[Ralph]

Never asked because we don't use them for making the mesh.  We use only
Tropos, although 3 systems we did for another company required Cisco
product. I will never deploy Cisco mess(h) again-LOL.

The Peps are the CPEs we use. In a muni mesh, the CPE radios are clients,
not part of the mesh.

The Pep CPEs work great with Tropos and the Peps were actually the original
recommended CPE for use with Google WiFi in Mountain View when they began.

 

 

From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of L. Aaron Kaplan
Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2010 5:30 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Mesh

 

 

On Aug 10, 2010, at 4:05 AM, Ralph wrote:





I have one or two Ruckus CPEs (the ones that look like Pacman) I intend to
try on one of our 4 muni mesh systems, but as of yet have not had a chance.
We use a lot of the Pepwave/Peplinks though.

 

 

 

Out of curiosity - what mesh algorithm does Pepwave actually use?

 

a.

 

 

 




WISPA Wants You! Join today!
http://signup.wispa.org/

 
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/

Re: [WISPA] Mesh

[L. Aaron Kaplan]

On Aug 10, 2010, at 3:26 PM, Ralph wrote:

 Never asked because we don’t use them for making the mesh.  We use only 
 Tropos, although 3 systems we did for another company required Cisco product. 
 I will never deploy Cisco mess(h) again-LOL.
 The Peps are the CPEs we use. In a muni mesh, the CPE radios are clients, not 
 part of the mesh.
 The Pep CPEs work great with Tropos and the Peps were actually the original 
 recommended CPE for use with Google WiFi in Mountain View when they began.

Interesting.
Well, I still believe, RFCs and open standards are the only way to go when 
building mesh networks.
Everything else leads to a vendor lock in.

But nevertheless it is interesting what proprietary vendor mesh solutions do 
and how well they perform.

Is there any way to find out if one mesh solution will interact with a 
different vendor's solution?

a.




PGP.sig
Description: This is a digitally signed message part



WISPA Wants You! Join today!
http://signup.wispa.org/

 
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/

Re: [WISPA] Mesh

[RickG]

While I dont like vendor lock in for myself, I'm a techie. For a serious
business customer, vendor lock in is far less of an issue than getting
proper support.

On Tue, Aug 10, 2010 at 11:03 AM, L. Aaron Kaplan aa...@lo-res.org wrote:


 On Aug 10, 2010, at 3:26 PM, Ralph wrote:

 Never asked because we don’t use them for making the mesh.  We use only
 Tropos, although 3 systems we did for another company required Cisco
 product. I will never deploy Cisco mess(h) again-LOL.
 The Peps are the CPEs we use. In a muni mesh, the CPE radios are clients,
 not part of the mesh.
 The Pep CPEs work great with Tropos and the Peps were actually the original
 recommended CPE for use with Google WiFi in Mountain View when they began.


 Interesting.
 Well, I still believe, RFCs and open standards are the only way to go when
 building mesh networks.
 Everything else leads to a vendor lock in.

 But nevertheless it is interesting what proprietary vendor mesh solutions
 do and how well they perform.

 Is there any way to find out if one mesh solution will interact with a
 different vendor's solution?

 a.






 
 WISPA Wants You! Join today!
 http://signup.wispa.org/

 

 WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

 Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
 http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

 Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/




WISPA Wants You! Join today!
http://signup.wispa.org/

 
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/

Re: [WISPA] Mesh

[Ralph]

Oh- the Peps work fine on Cisco mesh as well- especially the newer Peps they
sell now. We are currently only using the older black ones that look like a
cable/DSL modem with an antenna.

 

From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of RickG
Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2010 11:40 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Mesh

 

While I dont like vendor lock in for myself, I'm a techie. For a serious
business customer, vendor lock in is far less of an issue than getting
proper support. 

On Tue, Aug 10, 2010 at 11:03 AM, L. Aaron Kaplan aa...@lo-res.org wrote:

 

On Aug 10, 2010, at 3:26 PM, Ralph wrote:





Never asked because we don't use them for making the mesh.  We use only
Tropos, although 3 systems we did for another company required Cisco
product. I will never deploy Cisco mess(h) again-LOL.

The Peps are the CPEs we use. In a muni mesh, the CPE radios are clients,
not part of the mesh.

The Pep CPEs work great with Tropos and the Peps were actually the original
recommended CPE for use with Google WiFi in Mountain View when they began.

 

Interesting.

Well, I still believe, RFCs and open standards are the only way to go when
building mesh networks.

Everything else leads to a vendor lock in.

 

But nevertheless it is interesting what proprietary vendor mesh solutions do
and how well they perform.

 

Is there any way to find out if one mesh solution will interact with a
different vendor's solution?

 

a.

 

 






WISPA Wants You! Join today!
http://signup.wispa.org/



WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/

 




WISPA Wants You! Join today!
http://signup.wispa.org/

 
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/

Re: [WISPA] Mesh

[RickG]

Are there any Munis using Ruckus?

On Tue, Aug 3, 2010 at 3:49 PM, Josh Luthman j...@imaginenetworksllc.comwrote:

 Butch has done Mikrotik ones, but I would rather go with Ruckus.

 On Aug 3, 2010 3:43 PM, Brian Webster bwebs...@wirelessmapping.com
 wrote:

 Check with Butch Evans, seems like I remember him building a MESH system
 using MicroTik for a municipal Police Department.



 Brian


 -Original Message-
 From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
 ...

 Sent: Tuesday, August 03, 2010 1:15 PM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: [WISPA] Mesh

 Have a small town 1500 homes that I would like some advice on supplying
 wireless to. I have a tower...





 
 WISPA Wants You! Join today!
 http://signup.wispa.org/

 

 WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

 Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
 http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

 Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/




WISPA Wants You! Join today!
http://signup.wispa.org/

 
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/

Re: [WISPA] Mesh

[RickG]

What type of radios does this run on?

On Tue, Aug 3, 2010 at 5:36 PM, L. Aaron Kaplan aa...@lo-res.org wrote:


 you could of course still use open source: OLSR.org

 Deployed on multiple very large community wireless networks worldwide.
 (Freifunk, Funkfeuer, Athens Metropolitan Wireless network (5k nodes),
 Guifi.net etc)



 On Aug 3, 2010, at 9:49 PM, Josh Luthman wrote:

 Butch has done Mikrotik ones, but I would rather go with Ruckus.

 On Aug 3, 2010 3:43 PM, Brian Webster bwebs...@wirelessmapping.com
 wrote:

 Check with Butch Evans, seems like I remember him building a MESH system
 using MicroTik for a municipal Police Department.







 
 WISPA Wants You! Join today!
 http://signup.wispa.org/

 

 WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

 Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
 http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

 Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/




WISPA Wants You! Join today!
http://signup.wispa.org/

 
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/

Re: [WISPA] Mesh

[Faisal Imtiaz]

Not aware of any...

But  you have to keep a bit of history in the back of your mind...

Ruckus originally offered  Indoor CPE for distribution of IP TV  
Data as such worked with Wired and Wireless providers
The two wireless providers they 'partnered' with were Waveion and 
another company whose name I forget at the moment.. both of them did 
outdoor Radios with Beamforming antennas.. (so Rucks stayed with indoor 
products only...)


only recently they are starting to have outdoor units... (I am not 
counting the indoor units in a nema box they had for mounting pool side 
for hotel and mdu mesh deployment).


Faisal Imtiaz
Snappy Internet  Telecom
7266 SW 48 Street
Miami, Fl 33155
Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232
Helpdesk: 305 663 5518 option 2 Email: supp...@snappydsl.net


On 8/9/2010 1:42 PM, RickG wrote:

Are there any Munis using Ruckus?

On Tue, Aug 3, 2010 at 3:49 PM, Josh Luthman 
j...@imaginenetworksllc.com mailto:j...@imaginenetworksllc.com wrote:


Butch has done Mikrotik ones, but I would rather go with Ruckus.


On Aug 3, 2010 3:43 PM, Brian Webster
bwebs...@wirelessmapping.com
mailto:bwebs...@wirelessmapping.com wrote:

Check with Butch Evans, seems like I remember him building a MESH
system
using MicroTik for a municipal Police Department.



Brian

-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org
mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org
[mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org
mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
...

Sent: Tuesday, August 03, 2010 1:15 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: [WISPA] Mesh

Have a small town 1500 homes that I would like some advice on
supplying
wireless to. I have a tower...






WISPA Wants You! Join today!
http://signup.wispa.org/



WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org mailto:wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/






WISPA Wants You! Join today!
http://signup.wispa.org/


WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/



WISPA Wants You! Join today!
http://signup.wispa.org/

 
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/

Re: [WISPA] Mesh

[L. Aaron Kaplan]

On Aug 9, 2010, at 7:46 PM, RickG wrote:

 What type of radios does this run on?
 

any since it is a layer 3 mesh routing software - heck you could even run it 
over avian carriers ;-)

a.


 On Tue, Aug 3, 2010 at 5:36 PM, L. Aaron Kaplan aa...@lo-res.org wrote:
 
 you could of course still use open source: OLSR.org
 
 Deployed on multiple very large community wireless networks worldwide.
 (Freifunk, Funkfeuer, Athens Metropolitan Wireless network (5k nodes), 
 Guifi.net etc)
 
 
 
 On Aug 3, 2010, at 9:49 PM, Josh Luthman wrote:
 
 Butch has done Mikrotik ones, but I would rather go with Ruckus.
 
 
 On Aug 3, 2010 3:43 PM, Brian Webster bwebs...@wirelessmapping.com 
 wrote:
 
 Check with Butch Evans, seems like I remember him building a MESH system
 using MicroTik for a municipal Police Department.
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 WISPA Wants You! Join today!
 http://signup.wispa.org/
 
 
 WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
 
 Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
 http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
 
 Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
 
 
 
 
 WISPA Wants You! Join today!
 http://signup.wispa.org/
 
 
 WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
 
 Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
 http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
 
 Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/



PGP.sig
Description: This is a digitally signed message part



WISPA Wants You! Join today!
http://signup.wispa.org/

 
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/

Re: [WISPA] Mesh

[Ralph]

I have one or two Ruckus CPEs (the ones that look like Pacman) I intend to
try on one of our 4 muni mesh systems, but as of yet have not had a chance.
We use a lot of the Pepwave/Peplinks though.

 

 

From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of RickG
Sent: Monday, August 09, 2010 1:43 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Mesh

 

Are there any Munis using Ruckus?

On Tue, Aug 3, 2010 at 3:49 PM, Josh Luthman j...@imaginenetworksllc.com
wrote:

Butch has done Mikrotik ones, but I would rather go with Ruckus.

On Aug 3, 2010 3:43 PM, Brian Webster bwebs...@wirelessmapping.com
wrote:

Check with Butch Evans, seems like I remember him building a MESH system
using MicroTik for a municipal Police Department.



Brian


-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On

...

Sent: Tuesday, August 03, 2010 1:15 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: [WISPA] Mesh

Have a small town 1500 homes that I would like some advice on supplying

wireless to. I have a tower...






WISPA Wants You! Join today!
http://signup.wispa.org/



WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/

 




WISPA Wants You! Join today!
http://signup.wispa.org/

 
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/

Re: [WISPA] Mesh

[Marlon K. Schafer]

Build two networks.  One for backhaul to towers where needed.  Install as 
many links as you need to get the job done.  Then put ap's on the towers 
that need it.

Use trade for service where you can.  Nothing wrong with using John Smith's 
house as a tower either.

This is what we're doing more and more of.  5 gig (soon to be 3650) for 
backhauls.  All dedicated bridged backhauls.  Then, we route at the AP that 
goes out to the customer.

It may cost a little bit more than other options, but the performance will 
be MUCH better this way.

marlon

- Original Message - 
From: Steve Barnes st...@pcswin.com
To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Tuesday, August 03, 2010 10:15 AM
Subject: [WISPA] Mesh


 Have a small town 1500 homes that I would like some advice on supplying 
 wireless to.  I have a tower on the north end of town that I can't very 
 well add many more antennas to due to contract with tower owner.  The town 
 is very wooded.  I was considering putting up 4 small AP's in various 
 areas of town to cover it to a point.  Then the police dept got wind of it 
 and wanted to add 2 of their towers.  But not all have LOS to the main 
 tower.  Is this a good use of a mesh network and what are the important 
 things to know about Mesh.  I have lots of ideas but know knowledge on 
 this.  My AP's are all 100% Mikrotik but I have not heard any good about 
 MT mesh and data on that is very slim.  Help?

 Steve Barnes
 RC-WiFi Wireless Internet Service


 
 WISPA Wants You! Join today!
 http://signup.wispa.org/
 

 WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

 Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
 http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

 Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ 




WISPA Wants You! Join today!
http://signup.wispa.org/

 
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/

Re: [WISPA] Mesh

[David Weddell]

I met with the folks at Blue Mesh while we were in St Louis. I am looking into 
their mesh solution and at first glance, looks pretty good to me. Look up 
www.bluemesh.net and my contact there is Matthew Wheeler.

We are also looking at MOTO Mesh as well. I don't have anything to report other 
than my experience was good with MOTO Mesh when we did the Extreme Makeover 
Home Edition show in Bunker Hill last fall. We supplied the bandwidth in to the 
camp and ERS supplied the MOTO Mesh gear.

Regards,
David Weddell
VP Business Development 
Corporate Partnerships
Omnicity, Inc.

www.omnicity.net
OTCMarkets: OMCY

866 586 1518 Corporate Office
765 499 7310 Cell


This electronic mail communication is intended only for the use of the 
addressee and may contain information which is privileged and confidential.  If 
you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any 
dissemination, distribution or copying of this communication is strictly 
prohibited.  If you have received this communication in error, please notify us 
immediately and delete the original.  Thank you.




-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf 
Of Steve Barnes
Sent: Tuesday, August 03, 2010 1:15 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: [WISPA] Mesh

Have a small town 1500 homes that I would like some advice on supplying 
wireless to.  I have a tower on the north end of town that I can't very well 
add many more antennas to due to contract with tower owner.  The town is very 
wooded.  I was considering putting up 4 small AP's in various areas of town to 
cover it to a point.  Then the police dept got wind of it and wanted to add 2 
of their towers.  But not all have LOS to the main tower.  Is this a good use 
of a mesh network and what are the important things to know about Mesh.  I have 
lots of ideas but know knowledge on this.  My AP's are all 100% Mikrotik but I 
have not heard any good about MT mesh and data on that is very slim.  Help?

Steve Barnes
RC-WiFi Wireless Internet Service



WISPA Wants You! Join today!
http://signup.wispa.org/


WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/



WISPA Wants You! Join today!
http://signup.wispa.org/

 
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/

Re: [WISPA] Mesh

[Dennis Burgess]

Steve,

If you have GPS coordinates, we can see about building you a proper
routed mesh network, and show you what your expected coverage's are :)
We do charge 120  a hour for this work, but in 2 hours we can do quite a
bit once you get us the tower heights and GPS locations.  Just a
suggestion. 

---
Dennis Burgess, Mikrotik Certified Trainer 
Link Technologies, Inc -- Mikrotik  WISP Support Services
Office: 314-735-0270 Website: http://www.linktechs.net
LIVE On-Line Mikrotik Training - Author of Learn RouterOS


-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Steve Barnes
Sent: Tuesday, August 03, 2010 12:15 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: [WISPA] Mesh

Have a small town 1500 homes that I would like some advice on supplying
wireless to.  I have a tower on the north end of town that I can't very
well add many more antennas to due to contract with tower owner.  The
town is very wooded.  I was considering putting up 4 small AP's in
various areas of town to cover it to a point.  Then the police dept got
wind of it and wanted to add 2 of their towers.  But not all have LOS to
the main tower.  Is this a good use of a mesh network and what are the
important things to know about Mesh.  I have lots of ideas but know
knowledge on this.  My AP's are all 100% Mikrotik but I have not heard
any good about MT mesh and data on that is very slim.  Help?

Steve Barnes
RC-WiFi Wireless Internet Service




WISPA Wants You! Join today!
http://signup.wispa.org/


 
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/



WISPA Wants You! Join today!
http://signup.wispa.org/

 
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/

Re: [WISPA] Mesh

[Dennis Burgess]

BTW, we have done a number of MT mesh deployments, it works fine as long
as your understand the automagic that occurs and like that ;) 

---
Dennis Burgess, Mikrotik Certified Trainer 
Link Technologies, Inc -- Mikrotik  WISP Support Services
Office: 314-735-0270 Website: http://www.linktechs.net
LIVE On-Line Mikrotik Training - Author of Learn RouterOS


-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Dennis Burgess
Sent: Tuesday, August 03, 2010 12:25 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Mesh

Steve,

If you have GPS coordinates, we can see about building you a proper
routed mesh network, and show you what your expected coverage's are :)
We do charge 120  a hour for this work, but in 2 hours we can do quite a
bit once you get us the tower heights and GPS locations.  Just a
suggestion. 

---
Dennis Burgess, Mikrotik Certified Trainer 
Link Technologies, Inc -- Mikrotik  WISP Support Services
Office: 314-735-0270 Website: http://www.linktechs.net
LIVE On-Line Mikrotik Training - Author of Learn RouterOS


-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Steve Barnes
Sent: Tuesday, August 03, 2010 12:15 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: [WISPA] Mesh

Have a small town 1500 homes that I would like some advice on supplying
wireless to.  I have a tower on the north end of town that I can't very
well add many more antennas to due to contract with tower owner.  The
town is very wooded.  I was considering putting up 4 small AP's in
various areas of town to cover it to a point.  Then the police dept got
wind of it and wanted to add 2 of their towers.  But not all have LOS to
the main tower.  Is this a good use of a mesh network and what are the
important things to know about Mesh.  I have lots of ideas but know
knowledge on this.  My AP's are all 100% Mikrotik but I have not heard
any good about MT mesh and data on that is very slim.  Help?

Steve Barnes
RC-WiFi Wireless Internet Service




WISPA Wants You! Join today!
http://signup.wispa.org/


 
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/




WISPA Wants You! Join today!
http://signup.wispa.org/


 
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/



WISPA Wants You! Join today!
http://signup.wispa.org/

 
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/

Re: [WISPA] Mesh

[Steve Barnes]

Thanks for that info.  I am not really to that point I am more of a trying to 
understand the technology and find the right System for my needs.

Steve Barnes
General Manager
PCS-WIN
RC-WiFi Wireless Internet Service


-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf 
Of Dennis Burgess
Sent: Tuesday, August 03, 2010 1:28 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Mesh

BTW, we have done a number of MT mesh deployments, it works fine as long as 
your understand the automagic that occurs and like that ;) 

---
Dennis Burgess, Mikrotik Certified Trainer Link Technologies, Inc -- Mikrotik  
WISP Support Services
Office: 314-735-0270 Website: http://www.linktechs.net LIVE On-Line Mikrotik 
Training - Author of Learn RouterOS


-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Dennis Burgess
Sent: Tuesday, August 03, 2010 12:25 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Mesh

Steve,

If you have GPS coordinates, we can see about building you a proper
routed mesh network, and show you what your expected coverage's are :)
We do charge 120  a hour for this work, but in 2 hours we can do quite a
bit once you get us the tower heights and GPS locations.  Just a
suggestion. 

---
Dennis Burgess, Mikrotik Certified Trainer 
Link Technologies, Inc -- Mikrotik  WISP Support Services
Office: 314-735-0270 Website: http://www.linktechs.net
LIVE On-Line Mikrotik Training - Author of Learn RouterOS


-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Steve Barnes
Sent: Tuesday, August 03, 2010 12:15 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: [WISPA] Mesh

Have a small town 1500 homes that I would like some advice on supplying
wireless to.  I have a tower on the north end of town that I can't very
well add many more antennas to due to contract with tower owner.  The
town is very wooded.  I was considering putting up 4 small AP's in
various areas of town to cover it to a point.  Then the police dept got
wind of it and wanted to add 2 of their towers.  But not all have LOS to
the main tower.  Is this a good use of a mesh network and what are the
important things to know about Mesh.  I have lots of ideas but know
knowledge on this.  My AP's are all 100% Mikrotik but I have not heard
any good about MT mesh and data on that is very slim.  Help?

Steve Barnes
RC-WiFi Wireless Internet Service




WISPA Wants You! Join today!
http://signup.wispa.org/


 
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/




WISPA Wants You! Join today!
http://signup.wispa.org/


 
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/



WISPA Wants You! Join today!
http://signup.wispa.org/

 
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/



WISPA Wants You! Join today!
http://signup.wispa.org/

 
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/

Re: [WISPA] Mesh

[Brian Webster]

Check with Butch Evans, seems like I remember him building a MESH system
using MicroTik for a municipal Police Department.



Brian

-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Steve Barnes
Sent: Tuesday, August 03, 2010 1:15 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: [WISPA] Mesh

Have a small town 1500 homes that I would like some advice on supplying
wireless to.  I have a tower on the north end of town that I can't very well
add many more antennas to due to contract with tower owner.  The town is
very wooded.  I was considering putting up 4 small AP's in various areas of
town to cover it to a point.  Then the police dept got wind of it and wanted
to add 2 of their towers.  But not all have LOS to the main tower.  Is this
a good use of a mesh network and what are the important things to know about
Mesh.  I have lots of ideas but know knowledge on this.  My AP's are all
100% Mikrotik but I have not heard any good about MT mesh and data on that
is very slim.  Help?

Steve Barnes
RC-WiFi Wireless Internet Service




WISPA Wants You! Join today!
http://signup.wispa.org/


 
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/




WISPA Wants You! Join today!
http://signup.wispa.org/

 
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/

Re: [WISPA] Mesh

[Josh Luthman]

Butch has done Mikrotik ones, but I would rather go with Ruckus.

On Aug 3, 2010 3:43 PM, Brian Webster bwebs...@wirelessmapping.com
wrote:

Check with Butch Evans, seems like I remember him building a MESH system
using MicroTik for a municipal Police Department.



Brian


-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
...

Sent: Tuesday, August 03, 2010 1:15 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: [WISPA] Mesh

Have a small town 1500 homes that I would like some advice on supplying
wireless to. I have a tower...



WISPA Wants You! Join today!
http://signup.wispa.org/

 
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/

Re: [WISPA] Mesh

[L. Aaron Kaplan]

you could of course still use open source: OLSR.org

Deployed on multiple very large community wireless networks worldwide.
(Freifunk, Funkfeuer, Athens Metropolitan Wireless network (5k nodes), 
Guifi.net etc)



On Aug 3, 2010, at 9:49 PM, Josh Luthman wrote:

 Butch has done Mikrotik ones, but I would rather go with Ruckus.
 
 
 On Aug 3, 2010 3:43 PM, Brian Webster bwebs...@wirelessmapping.com wrote:
 
 Check with Butch Evans, seems like I remember him building a MESH system
 using MicroTik for a municipal Police Department.
 
 




WISPA Wants You! Join today!
http://signup.wispa.org/

 
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/

Re: [WISPA] Mesh network - what do you think?

[Paolo Di Francesco]

unfortunately it's an ancient hotel, cabling is VERY difficult (for
aesthetics)

So it's one of the reasons why I need mesh :/

Thank you in advance

 My hotels have 5 to 25 APs.  Each of them are wired, no mesh.  Some of them
 have switches in closets that spider out if it's easier to wire that way.
 
 Josh Luthman
 Office: 937-552-2340
 Direct: 937-552-2343
 1100 Wayne St
 Suite 1337
 Troy, OH 45373
 
 The secret to creativity is knowing how to hide your sources.
 --- Albert Einstein
 
 
 On Thu, Jan 14, 2010 at 2:54 PM, Paolo Di Francesco 
 paolo.difrance...@teleinform.com wrote:
 
 Hi All

 I am wondering if somebody of you is using mesh networks for hotels or
 hospitality sites. What I was wondering is if you tried mikrotik mesh
 network, if they are stable in the field, etc.

 I was also thinking about ruckus, they are focused on mesh network, so
 any input on this topic is very welcome.

 Thank you in advance


 --


 Ing. Paolo Di Francesco

 Teleinform S.p.A.
 Sede Legale: Via Francesco Paolo Di Blasi 1, 90144 Palermo
 Unita' Operativa: Via Regione Siciliana 49, 90046 Monreale (Palermo)
 Tel: +39-091-6408576, +39-091-6404501
 Fax: +39-091-6406200

 http://www.wikitel.it
 http://www.teleinform.com






 
 WISPA Wants You! Join today!
 http://signup.wispa.org/

 

 WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

 Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
 http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

 Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/

 
 
 
 WISPA Wants You! Join today!
 http://signup.wispa.org/
 
  
 WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
 
 Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
 http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
 
 Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
 


-- 


Ing. Paolo Di Francesco

Teleinform S.p.A.
Sede Legale: Via Francesco Paolo Di Blasi 1, 90144 Palermo
Unita' Operativa: Via Regione Siciliana 49, 90046 Monreale (Palermo)
Tel: +39-091-6408576, +39-091-6404501
Fax: +39-091-6406200

http://www.wikitel.it
http://www.teleinform.com






WISPA Wants You! Join today!
http://signup.wispa.org/

 
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/

Re: [WISPA] Mesh network - what do you think?

[Faisal Imtiaz]

I would vote for the Ruckus solution. You will be amazed with the results. 


Faisal Imtiaz
SnappyDSL.net
-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Paolo Di Francesco
Sent: Friday, January 15, 2010 8:45 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Mesh network - what do you think?

unfortunately it's an ancient hotel, cabling is VERY difficult (for
aesthetics)

So it's one of the reasons why I need mesh :/

Thank you in advance

 My hotels have 5 to 25 APs.  Each of them are wired, no mesh.  Some of 
 them have switches in closets that spider out if it's easier to wire that
way.
 
 Josh Luthman
 Office: 937-552-2340
 Direct: 937-552-2343
 1100 Wayne St
 Suite 1337
 Troy, OH 45373
 
 The secret to creativity is knowing how to hide your sources.
 --- Albert Einstein
 
 
 On Thu, Jan 14, 2010 at 2:54 PM, Paolo Di Francesco  
 paolo.difrance...@teleinform.com wrote:
 
 Hi All

 I am wondering if somebody of you is using mesh networks for hotels 
 or hospitality sites. What I was wondering is if you tried mikrotik 
 mesh network, if they are stable in the field, etc.

 I was also thinking about ruckus, they are focused on mesh network, 
 so any input on this topic is very welcome.

 Thank you in advance


 --


 Ing. Paolo Di Francesco

 Teleinform S.p.A.
 Sede Legale: Via Francesco Paolo Di Blasi 1, 90144 Palermo Unita' 
 Operativa: Via Regione Siciliana 49, 90046 Monreale (Palermo)
 Tel: +39-091-6408576, +39-091-6404501
 Fax: +39-091-6406200

 http://www.wikitel.it
 http://www.teleinform.com






 -
 ---
 WISPA Wants You! Join today!
 http://signup.wispa.org/

 -
 ---

 WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

 Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
 http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

 Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/

 
 
 --
 --
 WISPA Wants You! Join today!
 http://signup.wispa.org/
 --
 --
  
 WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
 
 Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
 http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
 
 Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
 


-- 


Ing. Paolo Di Francesco

Teleinform S.p.A.
Sede Legale: Via Francesco Paolo Di Blasi 1, 90144 Palermo Unita' Operativa:
Via Regione Siciliana 49, 90046 Monreale (Palermo)
Tel: +39-091-6408576, +39-091-6404501
Fax: +39-091-6406200

http://www.wikitel.it
http://www.teleinform.com







WISPA Wants You! Join today!
http://signup.wispa.org/


 
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/






WISPA Wants You! Join today!
http://signup.wispa.org/

 
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/

Re: [WISPA] Mesh network - what do you think?

[Josh Luthman]

I've not gone down this way, but I would also look at Ruckus first.

I know Daniel White of 3db did a lot of Ruckus.  I'd have to guess that his
bosses did, too.

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

The secret to creativity is knowing how to hide your sources.
--- Albert Einstein


On Fri, Jan 15, 2010 at 9:18 AM, Faisal Imtiaz fai...@snappydsl.net wrote:

 I would vote for the Ruckus solution. You will be amazed with the results.


 Faisal Imtiaz
 SnappyDSL.net
 -Original Message-
 From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
 Behalf Of Paolo Di Francesco
 Sent: Friday, January 15, 2010 8:45 AM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] Mesh network - what do you think?

 unfortunately it's an ancient hotel, cabling is VERY difficult (for
 aesthetics)

 So it's one of the reasons why I need mesh :/

 Thank you in advance

  My hotels have 5 to 25 APs.  Each of them are wired, no mesh.  Some of
  them have switches in closets that spider out if it's easier to wire that
 way.
 
  Josh Luthman
  Office: 937-552-2340
  Direct: 937-552-2343
  1100 Wayne St
  Suite 1337
  Troy, OH 45373
 
  The secret to creativity is knowing how to hide your sources.
  --- Albert Einstein
 
 
  On Thu, Jan 14, 2010 at 2:54 PM, Paolo Di Francesco 
  paolo.difrance...@teleinform.com wrote:
 
  Hi All
 
  I am wondering if somebody of you is using mesh networks for hotels
  or hospitality sites. What I was wondering is if you tried mikrotik
  mesh network, if they are stable in the field, etc.
 
  I was also thinking about ruckus, they are focused on mesh network,
  so any input on this topic is very welcome.
 
  Thank you in advance
 
 
  --
 
 
  Ing. Paolo Di Francesco
 
  Teleinform S.p.A.
  Sede Legale: Via Francesco Paolo Di Blasi 1, 90144 Palermo Unita'
  Operativa: Via Regione Siciliana 49, 90046 Monreale (Palermo)
  Tel: +39-091-6408576, +39-091-6404501
  Fax: +39-091-6406200
 
  http://www.wikitel.it
  http://www.teleinform.com
 
 
 
 
 
 
  -
  ---
  WISPA Wants You! Join today!
  http://signup.wispa.org/
 
  -
  ---
 
  WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
 
  Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
  http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
 
  Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
 
 
 
  --
  --
  WISPA Wants You! Join today!
  http://signup.wispa.org/
  --
  --
 
  WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
 
  Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
  http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
 
  Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
 


 --


 Ing. Paolo Di Francesco

 Teleinform S.p.A.
 Sede Legale: Via Francesco Paolo Di Blasi 1, 90144 Palermo Unita'
 Operativa:
 Via Regione Siciliana 49, 90046 Monreale (Palermo)
 Tel: +39-091-6408576, +39-091-6404501
 Fax: +39-091-6406200

 http://www.wikitel.it
 http://www.teleinform.com






 
 
 WISPA Wants You! Join today!
 http://signup.wispa.org/

 
 

 WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

 Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
 http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

 Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/






 
 WISPA Wants You! Join today!
 http://signup.wispa.org/

 

 WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

 Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
 http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

 Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/




WISPA Wants You! Join today!
http://signup.wispa.org/

 
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/

Re: [WISPA] Mesh network - what do you think?

[Jerry Richardson]

They have phone lines no?

Moto has exactly what you need for this - it's a VDSL-type product with AP's 
that mount to the wall in the room. you would distribute them in a checkerboard 
pattern through the hotel. 

I saw spec sheets on one of the vendor tables (3dB?) downstairs


From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of 
Paolo Di Francesco [paolo.difrance...@teleinform.com]
Sent: Friday, January 15, 2010 8:44 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Mesh network - what do you think?

unfortunately it's an ancient hotel, cabling is VERY difficult (for
aesthetics)

So it's one of the reasons why I need mesh :/

Thank you in advance

 My hotels have 5 to 25 APs.  Each of them are wired, no mesh.  Some of them
 have switches in closets that spider out if it's easier to wire that way.

 Josh Luthman
 Office: 937-552-2340
 Direct: 937-552-2343
 1100 Wayne St
 Suite 1337
 Troy, OH 45373

 The secret to creativity is knowing how to hide your sources.
 --- Albert Einstein


 On Thu, Jan 14, 2010 at 2:54 PM, Paolo Di Francesco 
 paolo.difrance...@teleinform.com wrote:

 Hi All

 I am wondering if somebody of you is using mesh networks for hotels or
 hospitality sites. What I was wondering is if you tried mikrotik mesh
 network, if they are stable in the field, etc.

 I was also thinking about ruckus, they are focused on mesh network, so
 any input on this topic is very welcome.

 Thank you in advance


 --


 Ing. Paolo Di Francesco

 Teleinform S.p.A.
 Sede Legale: Via Francesco Paolo Di Blasi 1, 90144 Palermo
 Unita' Operativa: Via Regione Siciliana 49, 90046 Monreale (Palermo)
 Tel: +39-091-6408576, +39-091-6404501
 Fax: +39-091-6406200

 http://www.wikitel.it
 http://www.teleinform.com






 
 WISPA Wants You! Join today!
 http://signup.wispa.org/

 

 WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

 Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
 http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

 Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/



 
 WISPA Wants You! Join today!
 http://signup.wispa.org/
 

 WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

 Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
 http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

 Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/



--


Ing. Paolo Di Francesco

Teleinform S.p.A.
Sede Legale: Via Francesco Paolo Di Blasi 1, 90144 Palermo
Unita' Operativa: Via Regione Siciliana 49, 90046 Monreale (Palermo)
Tel: +39-091-6408576, +39-091-6404501
Fax: +39-091-6406200

http://www.wikitel.it
http://www.teleinform.com






WISPA Wants You! Join today!
http://signup.wispa.org/


WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/



WISPA Wants You! Join today!
http://signup.wispa.org/

 
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/

Re: [WISPA] Mesh network - what do you think?

[Greg]

Will anything else mesh with the Ruckus stuff? The fancy antenna system
aside, is the wireless standards based?

Greg

On Fri, Jan 15, 2010 at 9:48 AM, Faisal Imtiaz fai...@snappydsl.net wrote:

 I would vote for the Ruckus solution. You will be amazed with the results.


 Faisal Imtiaz
 SnappyDSL.net
 -Original Message-
 From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
 Behalf Of Paolo Di Francesco
 Sent: Friday, January 15, 2010 8:45 AM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] Mesh network - what do you think?

 unfortunately it's an ancient hotel, cabling is VERY difficult (for
 aesthetics)

 So it's one of the reasons why I need mesh :/

 Thank you in advance

  My hotels have 5 to 25 APs.  Each of them are wired, no mesh.  Some of
  them have switches in closets that spider out if it's easier to wire that
 way.
 
  Josh Luthman
  Office: 937-552-2340
  Direct: 937-552-2343
  1100 Wayne St
  Suite 1337
  Troy, OH 45373
 
  The secret to creativity is knowing how to hide your sources.
  --- Albert Einstein
 
 
  On Thu, Jan 14, 2010 at 2:54 PM, Paolo Di Francesco 
  paolo.difrance...@teleinform.com wrote:
 
  Hi All
 
  I am wondering if somebody of you is using mesh networks for hotels
  or hospitality sites. What I was wondering is if you tried mikrotik
  mesh network, if they are stable in the field, etc.
 
  I was also thinking about ruckus, they are focused on mesh network,
  so any input on this topic is very welcome.
 
  Thank you in advance
 
 
  --
 
 
  Ing. Paolo Di Francesco
 
  Teleinform S.p.A.
  Sede Legale: Via Francesco Paolo Di Blasi 1, 90144 Palermo Unita'
  Operativa: Via Regione Siciliana 49, 90046 Monreale (Palermo)
  Tel: +39-091-6408576, +39-091-6404501
  Fax: +39-091-6406200
 
  http://www.wikitel.it
  http://www.teleinform.com
 
 
 
 
 
 
  -
  ---
  WISPA Wants You! Join today!
  http://signup.wispa.org/
 
  -
  ---
 
  WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
 
  Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
  http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
 
  Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
 
 
 
  --
  --
  WISPA Wants You! Join today!
  http://signup.wispa.org/
  --
  --
 
  WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
 
  Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
  http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
 
  Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
 


 --


 Ing. Paolo Di Francesco

 Teleinform S.p.A.
 Sede Legale: Via Francesco Paolo Di Blasi 1, 90144 Palermo Unita'
 Operativa:
 Via Regione Siciliana 49, 90046 Monreale (Palermo)
 Tel: +39-091-6408576, +39-091-6404501
 Fax: +39-091-6406200

 http://www.wikitel.it
 http://www.teleinform.com






 
 
 WISPA Wants You! Join today!
 http://signup.wispa.org/

 
 

 WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

 Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
 http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

 Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/






 
 WISPA Wants You! Join today!
 http://signup.wispa.org/

 

 WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

 Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
 http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

 Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/




WISPA Wants You! Join today!
http://signup.wispa.org/

 
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/

Re: [WISPA] Mesh network - what do you think?

[Josh Luthman]

Ruckus is 802.11 Wifi + mesh.  It has three antennas, I believe.

Heard nothing but it works great.

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

The secret to creativity is knowing how to hide your sources.
--- Albert Einstein


On Fri, Jan 15, 2010 at 12:16 PM, Greg os10ru...@gmail.com wrote:

 Will anything else mesh with the Ruckus stuff? The fancy antenna system
 aside, is the wireless standards based?

 Greg

 On Fri, Jan 15, 2010 at 9:48 AM, Faisal Imtiaz fai...@snappydsl.net
 wrote:

  I would vote for the Ruckus solution. You will be amazed with the
 results.
 
 
  Faisal Imtiaz
  SnappyDSL.net
  -Original Message-
  From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
  Behalf Of Paolo Di Francesco
  Sent: Friday, January 15, 2010 8:45 AM
  To: WISPA General List
  Subject: Re: [WISPA] Mesh network - what do you think?
 
  unfortunately it's an ancient hotel, cabling is VERY difficult (for
  aesthetics)
 
  So it's one of the reasons why I need mesh :/
 
  Thank you in advance
 
   My hotels have 5 to 25 APs.  Each of them are wired, no mesh.  Some of
   them have switches in closets that spider out if it's easier to wire
 that
  way.
  
   Josh Luthman
   Office: 937-552-2340
   Direct: 937-552-2343
   1100 Wayne St
   Suite 1337
   Troy, OH 45373
  
   The secret to creativity is knowing how to hide your sources.
   --- Albert Einstein
  
  
   On Thu, Jan 14, 2010 at 2:54 PM, Paolo Di Francesco 
   paolo.difrance...@teleinform.com wrote:
  
   Hi All
  
   I am wondering if somebody of you is using mesh networks for hotels
   or hospitality sites. What I was wondering is if you tried mikrotik
   mesh network, if they are stable in the field, etc.
  
   I was also thinking about ruckus, they are focused on mesh network,
   so any input on this topic is very welcome.
  
   Thank you in advance
  
  
   --
  
  
   Ing. Paolo Di Francesco
  
   Teleinform S.p.A.
   Sede Legale: Via Francesco Paolo Di Blasi 1, 90144 Palermo Unita'
   Operativa: Via Regione Siciliana 49, 90046 Monreale (Palermo)
   Tel: +39-091-6408576, +39-091-6404501
   Fax: +39-091-6406200
  
   http://www.wikitel.it
   http://www.teleinform.com
  
  
  
  
  
  
   -
   ---
   WISPA Wants You! Join today!
   http://signup.wispa.org/
  
   -
   ---
  
   WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
  
   Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
   http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
  
   Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
  
  
  
   --
   --
   WISPA Wants You! Join today!
   http://signup.wispa.org/
   --
   --
  
   WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
  
   Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
   http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
  
   Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
  
 
 
  --
 
 
  Ing. Paolo Di Francesco
 
  Teleinform S.p.A.
  Sede Legale: Via Francesco Paolo Di Blasi 1, 90144 Palermo Unita'
  Operativa:
  Via Regione Siciliana 49, 90046 Monreale (Palermo)
  Tel: +39-091-6408576, +39-091-6404501
  Fax: +39-091-6406200
 
  http://www.wikitel.it
  http://www.teleinform.com
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
  
  WISPA Wants You! Join today!
  http://signup.wispa.org/
 
 
 
  
 
  WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
 
  Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
  http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
 
  Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
  WISPA Wants You! Join today!
  http://signup.wispa.org/
 
 
 
 
  WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
 
  Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
  http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
 
  Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
 



 
 WISPA Wants You! Join today!
 http://signup.wispa.org/

 

 WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

 Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
 http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

 Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/




WISPA Wants You! Join today!
http://signup.wispa.org/

 
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo

Re: [WISPA] Mesh network - what do you think?

[Josh Luthman]

My hotels have 5 to 25 APs.  Each of them are wired, no mesh.  Some of them
have switches in closets that spider out if it's easier to wire that way.

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

The secret to creativity is knowing how to hide your sources.
--- Albert Einstein


On Thu, Jan 14, 2010 at 2:54 PM, Paolo Di Francesco 
paolo.difrance...@teleinform.com wrote:

 Hi All

 I am wondering if somebody of you is using mesh networks for hotels or
 hospitality sites. What I was wondering is if you tried mikrotik mesh
 network, if they are stable in the field, etc.

 I was also thinking about ruckus, they are focused on mesh network, so
 any input on this topic is very welcome.

 Thank you in advance


 --


 Ing. Paolo Di Francesco

 Teleinform S.p.A.
 Sede Legale: Via Francesco Paolo Di Blasi 1, 90144 Palermo
 Unita' Operativa: Via Regione Siciliana 49, 90046 Monreale (Palermo)
 Tel: +39-091-6408576, +39-091-6404501
 Fax: +39-091-6406200

 http://www.wikitel.it
 http://www.teleinform.com






 
 WISPA Wants You! Join today!
 http://signup.wispa.org/

 

 WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

 Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
 http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

 Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/




WISPA Wants You! Join today!
http://signup.wispa.org/

 
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/

Re: [WISPA] Mesh network - what do you think?

[Steve Barnes]

Then you use WDS or what to make it that a client can jump from one AP to the 
other without loss of connection.\?

Steve Barnes
RC-WiFi Wireless Internet Service


-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf 
Of Josh Luthman
Sent: Thursday, January 14, 2010 3:57 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Mesh network - what do you think?

My hotels have 5 to 25 APs.  Each of them are wired, no mesh.  Some of them
have switches in closets that spider out if it's easier to wire that way.

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

The secret to creativity is knowing how to hide your sources.
--- Albert Einstein


On Thu, Jan 14, 2010 at 2:54 PM, Paolo Di Francesco 
paolo.difrance...@teleinform.com wrote:

 Hi All

 I am wondering if somebody of you is using mesh networks for hotels or
 hospitality sites. What I was wondering is if you tried mikrotik mesh
 network, if they are stable in the field, etc.

 I was also thinking about ruckus, they are focused on mesh network, so
 any input on this topic is very welcome.

 Thank you in advance


 --


 Ing. Paolo Di Francesco

 Teleinform S.p.A.
 Sede Legale: Via Francesco Paolo Di Blasi 1, 90144 Palermo
 Unita' Operativa: Via Regione Siciliana 49, 90046 Monreale (Palermo)
 Tel: +39-091-6408576, +39-091-6404501
 Fax: +39-091-6406200

 http://www.wikitel.it
 http://www.teleinform.com






 
 WISPA Wants You! Join today!
 http://signup.wispa.org/

 

 WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

 Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
 http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

 Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/




WISPA Wants You! Join today!
http://signup.wispa.org/

 
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/



WISPA Wants You! Join today!
http://signup.wispa.org/

 
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/

Re: [WISPA] Mesh network - what do you think?

[Josh Luthman]

Supporting of jumping between APs is not something I ever considered
supporting.

Having said that, when I walk down the halls making sure each AP is working,
I lose 0-3 packets on a constant ping when switching APs and don't lose my
TCP connections.  RDP, speed tests, Dude, etc all stays on from one side of
the hotel to the other and between floors (mostly, some stairwells are
caves).

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

The secret to creativity is knowing how to hide your sources.
--- Albert Einstein


On Thu, Jan 14, 2010 at 4:13 PM, Steve Barnes st...@pcswin.com wrote:

 Then you use WDS or what to make it that a client can jump from one AP to
 the other without loss of connection.\?

 Steve Barnes
 RC-WiFi Wireless Internet Service


 -Original Message-
 From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
 Behalf Of Josh Luthman
 Sent: Thursday, January 14, 2010 3:57 PM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] Mesh network - what do you think?

 My hotels have 5 to 25 APs.  Each of them are wired, no mesh.  Some of them
 have switches in closets that spider out if it's easier to wire that way.

 Josh Luthman
 Office: 937-552-2340
 Direct: 937-552-2343
 1100 Wayne St
 Suite 1337
 Troy, OH 45373

 The secret to creativity is knowing how to hide your sources.
 --- Albert Einstein


 On Thu, Jan 14, 2010 at 2:54 PM, Paolo Di Francesco 
 paolo.difrance...@teleinform.com wrote:

  Hi All
 
  I am wondering if somebody of you is using mesh networks for hotels or
  hospitality sites. What I was wondering is if you tried mikrotik mesh
  network, if they are stable in the field, etc.
 
  I was also thinking about ruckus, they are focused on mesh network, so
  any input on this topic is very welcome.
 
  Thank you in advance
 
 
  --
 
 
  Ing. Paolo Di Francesco
 
  Teleinform S.p.A.
  Sede Legale: Via Francesco Paolo Di Blasi 1, 90144 Palermo
  Unita' Operativa: Via Regione Siciliana 49, 90046 Monreale (Palermo)
  Tel: +39-091-6408576, +39-091-6404501
  Fax: +39-091-6406200
 
  http://www.wikitel.it
  http://www.teleinform.com
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
  WISPA Wants You! Join today!
  http://signup.wispa.org/
 
 
 
 
  WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
 
  Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
  http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
 
  Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
 



 
 WISPA Wants You! Join today!
 http://signup.wispa.org/

 

 WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

 Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
 http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

 Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/



 
 WISPA Wants You! Join today!
 http://signup.wispa.org/

 

 WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

 Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
 http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

 Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/




WISPA Wants You! Join today!
http://signup.wispa.org/

 
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/

Re: [WISPA] Mesh Network

[Charles Wyble]

Jerry Richardson wrote:
 I believe there is still a market for municipal public wifi. I am
 finding the barrier is the cost of the radios at $1k ea minimum for a
 true mesh type dual radio system. Anything lower is cost is not true
 Mesh. Yes, I could put something together using pieces and parts however
 that's a support nightmare waiting to happen.
  
 If you could have a Mesh Radio designed the way you want, what would it
 look like?
  
 My wish would look something like this:
 - Dual radio
 - Client access on 802.11b/g (optional 4.9 model for Public Safety)
 - Mesh on 802.11a (open-mesh?) with DFS on 5.2/5.4

Yep. For me it would be 802.11n for backbone/mesh and client access on 
802.11b/g

 - Automatic scan for best channel
 - Multi-SSID (up to 16 SSID/VLAN sets)
 - BW allocation per SSID
 - QoS per VLAN
 - Encryption
 - Client Isolation
 - SNMP v1, v2

DD-WRT or OpenWRT can give you this.

 - Ping watchdog

Not sure what this is? A script that runs on the router and reboots if 
it can't ping?

 - Push/Pull config

The PTP guys did something for this with openwrt 
http://www.stephouse.net/files/openwrtprovisioner/openwrtprovisioner.v0.1.tgz 



 - NAT/DHCP to clients (running as router)
 - 10/100 Ethernet
 - Outdoor, ready to hang (not a roll-your-own)
 - Browser Configurable
 - POE
 - Tech support from a manufacturer (not third party support/forums/mail
 lists)


So it would seem UBNT gear with an OpenWRT load would do most of what 
you want?




WISPA Wants You! Join today!
http://signup.wispa.org/

 
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/

Re: [WISPA] Mesh Network

[Dennis Burgess - LinkTechs.net]

What I quoted :)

* ---
Dennis Burgess, CCNA, A+, Mikrotik Certified Trainer
WISPA Board Member - wispa.org http://www.wispa.org/
Link Technologies, Inc -- Mikrotik  WISP Support Services
WISPA Vendor Member*
*Office*: 314-735-0270 *Website*: http://www.linktechs.net 
http://www.linktechs.net/
*/ LIVE On-Line Mikrotik Training http://www.onlinemikrotiktraining.com/*

The information transmitted (including attachments) is covered by the 
Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. 2510-2521, is intended only 
for the person(s) or entity/entities to which 
it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any 
review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action 
in reliance upon, this information by persons or entities other than the 
intended recipient(s) is prohibited, If you 
received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from 
any computer.

 



Charles Wyble wrote:
 Jerry Richardson wrote:
   
 I believe there is still a market for municipal public wifi. I am
 finding the barrier is the cost of the radios at $1k ea minimum for a
 true mesh type dual radio system. Anything lower is cost is not true
 Mesh. Yes, I could put something together using pieces and parts however
 that's a support nightmare waiting to happen.
  
 If you could have a Mesh Radio designed the way you want, what would it
 look like?
  
 My wish would look something like this:
 - Dual radio
 - Client access on 802.11b/g (optional 4.9 model for Public Safety)
 - Mesh on 802.11a (open-mesh?) with DFS on 5.2/5.4
 

 Yep. For me it would be 802.11n for backbone/mesh and client access on 
 802.11b/g

   
 - Automatic scan for best channel
 - Multi-SSID (up to 16 SSID/VLAN sets)
 - BW allocation per SSID
 - QoS per VLAN
 - Encryption
 - Client Isolation
 - SNMP v1, v2
 

 DD-WRT or OpenWRT can give you this.

   
 - Ping watchdog
 

 Not sure what this is? A script that runs on the router and reboots if 
 it can't ping?

   
 - Push/Pull config
 

 The PTP guys did something for this with openwrt 
 http://www.stephouse.net/files/openwrtprovisioner/openwrtprovisioner.v0.1.tgz 



   
 - NAT/DHCP to clients (running as router)
 - 10/100 Ethernet
 - Outdoor, ready to hang (not a roll-your-own)
 - Browser Configurable
 - POE
 - Tech support from a manufacturer (not third party support/forums/mail
 lists)
 


 So it would seem UBNT gear with an OpenWRT load would do most of what 
 you want?



 
 WISPA Wants You! Join today!
 http://signup.wispa.org/
 
  
 WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

 Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
 http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

 Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
   



WISPA Wants You! Join today!
http://signup.wispa.org/

 
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/

Re: [WISPA] Mesh Network

[os10rules]

How about ability to be a hotspot?

On Jun 18, 2009, at 12:05 PM, Jerry Richardson wrote:

 I believe there is still a market for municipal public wifi. I am
 finding the barrier is the cost of the radios at $1k ea minimum for a
 true mesh type dual radio system. Anything lower is cost is not true
 Mesh. Yes, I could put something together using pieces and parts  
 however
 that's a support nightmare waiting to happen.

 If you could have a Mesh Radio designed the way you want, what would  
 it
 look like?

 My wish would look something like this:
 - Dual radio
 - Client access on 802.11b/g (optional 4.9 model for Public Safety)
 - Mesh on 802.11a (open-mesh?) with DFS on 5.2/5.4
 - Automatic scan for best channel
 - Multi-SSID (up to 16 SSID/VLAN sets)
 - BW allocation per SSID
 - QoS per VLAN
 - Encryption
 - Client Isolation
 - SNMP v1, v2
 - Ping watchdog
 - Push/Pull config
 - NAT/DHCP to clients (running as router)
 - 10/100 Ethernet
 - Outdoor, ready to hang (not a roll-your-own)
 - Browser Configurable
 - POE
 - Tech support from a manufacturer (not third party support/forums/ 
 mail
 lists)
 - FCC certified as a system
 - Cost 350.00

 Let me know what you would like to see as I am working with a
 manufacturer to develop this or something very close to it.



 Broadband for Business
 Public and Private WiFi

 Jerry Richardson
 VP Operations
 925-260-4119
 _

 ConsuWISP
 RF Topographical Coverage Maps
 Network Optimization and Planning
 Network Design and Troubleshooting
 Installer and Technician Training

 http://www.linkedin.com/pub/jerry-richardson/6/372/354

 P Please consider the environment before printing this email



 
 WISPA Wants You! Join today!
 http://signup.wispa.org/
 

 WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

 Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
 http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

 Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/




WISPA Wants You! Join today!
http://signup.wispa.org/

 
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/

Re: [WISPA] Mesh just for kicks

[Matt Hardy]

I think you're thinking of the MIT Roofnet project?
http://pdos.csail.mit.edu/roofnet/doku.php

:)

Scottie Arnett wrote:
 I was thinking of something else...can't remember what is was called. A 
 college was replacing the firmware in some Netgear WGR614L(best I recall) 
 routers and meshing the whole campus with it. Sorry for the confusion.

 Scottie

 -- Original Message --
 From: John J. Thomas jtho...@quarnet.com
 Reply-To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
 Date:  Wed, 18 Feb 2009 18:49:14 +

   
 Some MME info

 http://wiki.mikrotik.com/wiki/MME_wireless_routing_protocol

 John

 
 -Original Message-
 From: Scottie Arnett [mailto:sarn...@info-ed.com]
 Sent: Tuesday, February 17, 2009 09:34 PM
 To: e...@wisp-router.com, 'WISPA General List'
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] Mesh just for kicks

 Too give credit where credit is due...did not a university do this to begin 
 with that worked really well...and all other versions are built on it?

 Scottie

 -- Original Message --
 From: e...@wisp-router.com
 Reply-To: e...@wisp-router.com, WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
 Date:  Tue, 17 Feb 2009 16:36:32 +

   
 MikroTik has its MME implementation that is what should be used instead of 
 using WDS for a mesh setup. MME is as true mesh as it gets. 

 /Eje
 Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile

 -Original Message-
 From: Harold Bledsoe hbled...@deliberant.net

 Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2009 10:52:39 
 To: WISPA General Listwireless@wispa.org
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] Mesh just for kicks


 Well there is also the mesh part too.  Is this what you guys are talking
 about when you say MT mesh:  http://wiki.mikrotik.com/wiki/Mesh_wds

 If so, I would disagree that this is a good mesh implementation.
 There are many, many more factors to consider when building an
 infrastructure mesh.  The LigoMesh products take into account signal
 strength, hops from GW, node load, datarate, etc. to calculate the best
 path.  Also, there are dedicated radios for uplink/downlink/service set
 to give high performance.

 On the other hand, if you don't need a carrier-grade infrastructure
 mesh, Wiligear products based on the WBD-500 do support Open-Mesh and
 should be available in the very near future on Streakwave's website with
 the option to have them preloaded with Open-mesh (board, indoor, and
 outdoor selections).

 I guess what I'm saying is that not all products are created equal and
 there is certainly a place for each one.  Just be sure you know what you
 are getting!

 -Hal


 -Original Message-
 From: os10ru...@gmail.com
 Reply-To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
 To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] Mesh just for kicks
 Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2009 10:38:04 -0430

 Mr. Burgess,

What frightens me about taking the leap into Mikrotik is it appears  
 the web interface is of no use in the advanced configuration and it  
 sounds like one must get heavily into the CLI and scripting. I don't  
 see an online repository of scripts for programming or even a highly  
 detailed help/wiki online. I'm guessing too many people are making too  
 much money doing their Mikrotik training to give it away for free. So  
 because of the apparently steep learning curve I'm leery to make the  
 leap. The more easily configurable (and less powerful) solutions such  
 as Ubiquiti look more appealing to me at this point.

Would you disagree with my perspective? Is making the leap not that  
 bad?

 Greg
 On Feb 17, 2009, at 10:21 AM, Dennis Burgess wrote:

 
 Ya, don't know why ya don't want a MT solution.  Been there done that
 and it works :)

 * ---
 Dennis Burgess, CCNA, A+, Mikrotik Certified Trainer
 WISPA Board Member - wispa.org http://www.wispa.org/
 Link Technologies, Inc -- Mikrotik  WISP Support Services
 WISPA Vendor Member*
 *Office*: 314-735-0270 *Website*: http://www.linktechs.net
 http://www.linktechs.net/
 */LIVE On-Line Mikrotik Training/*
 http://www.linktechs.net/onlinetraining.asp

 The information transmitted (including attachments) is covered by  
 the Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. 2510-2521, is  
 intended only for the person(s) or entity/entities to which
 it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged  
 material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of,  
 or taking of any action in reliance upon, this information by  
 persons or entities other than the intended recipient(s) is  
 prohibited, If you
 received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the  
 material from any computer.





 e...@wisp-router.com wrote:
   
 MT and a consultant ;)

 /me laughing while running for cover

 Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile

 -Original Message-
 From: Scott Vander Dussen sc...@velociter.net

 Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2009 21:13:03
 To: WISPA

Re: [WISPA] Mesh just for kicks

[Drew Lentz]

Don't forget about Sascha's project @ CUWiN
http://cuwireless.net/

-d

On 2/19/09 5:13 AM, Matt Hardy mha...@ligowave.com wrote:

 I think you're thinking of the MIT Roofnet project?
 http://pdos.csail.mit.edu/roofnet/doku.php
 
 :)
 
 Scottie Arnett wrote:
 I was thinking of something else...can't remember what is was called. A
 college was replacing the firmware in some Netgear WGR614L(best I recall)
 routers and meshing the whole campus with it. Sorry for the confusion.
 
 Scottie
 
 -- Original Message --
 From: John J. Thomas jtho...@quarnet.com
 Reply-To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
 Date:  Wed, 18 Feb 2009 18:49:14 +
 
   
 Some MME info
 
 http://wiki.mikrotik.com/wiki/MME_wireless_routing_protocol
 
 John
 
 
 -Original Message-
 From: Scottie Arnett [mailto:sarn...@info-ed.com]
 Sent: Tuesday, February 17, 2009 09:34 PM
 To: e...@wisp-router.com, 'WISPA General List'
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] Mesh just for kicks
 
 Too give credit where credit is due...did not a university do this to begin
 with that worked really well...and all other versions are built on it?
 
 Scottie
 
 -- Original Message --
 From: e...@wisp-router.com
 Reply-To: e...@wisp-router.com, WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
 Date:  Tue, 17 Feb 2009 16:36:32 +
 
   
 MikroTik has its MME implementation that is what should be used instead of
 using WDS for a mesh setup. MME is as true mesh as it gets.
 
 /Eje
 Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile
 
 -Original Message-
 From: Harold Bledsoe hbled...@deliberant.net
 
 Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2009 10:52:39
 To: WISPA General Listwireless@wispa.org
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] Mesh just for kicks
 
 
 Well there is also the mesh part too.  Is this what you guys are talking
 about when you say MT mesh:  http://wiki.mikrotik.com/wiki/Mesh_wds
 
 If so, I would disagree that this is a good mesh implementation.
 There are many, many more factors to consider when building an
 infrastructure mesh.  The LigoMesh products take into account signal
 strength, hops from GW, node load, datarate, etc. to calculate the best
 path.  Also, there are dedicated radios for uplink/downlink/service set
 to give high performance.
 
 On the other hand, if you don't need a carrier-grade infrastructure
 mesh, Wiligear products based on the WBD-500 do support Open-Mesh and
 should be available in the very near future on Streakwave's website with
 the option to have them preloaded with Open-mesh (board, indoor, and
 outdoor selections).
 
 I guess what I'm saying is that not all products are created equal and
 there is certainly a place for each one.  Just be sure you know what you
 are getting!
 
 -Hal
 
 
 -Original Message-
 From: os10ru...@gmail.com
 Reply-To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
 To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] Mesh just for kicks
 Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2009 10:38:04 -0430
 
 Mr. Burgess,
 
 What frightens me about taking the leap into Mikrotik is it appears
 the web interface is of no use in the advanced configuration and it
 sounds like one must get heavily into the CLI and scripting. I don't
 see an online repository of scripts for programming or even a highly
 detailed help/wiki online. I'm guessing too many people are making too
 much money doing their Mikrotik training to give it away for free. So
 because of the apparently steep learning curve I'm leery to make the
 leap. The more easily configurable (and less powerful) solutions such
 as Ubiquiti look more appealing to me at this point.
 
 Would you disagree with my perspective? Is making the leap not that
 bad?
 
 Greg
 On Feb 17, 2009, at 10:21 AM, Dennis Burgess wrote:
 
 
 Ya, don't know why ya don't want a MT solution.  Been there done that
 and it works :)
 
 * ---
 Dennis Burgess, CCNA, A+, Mikrotik Certified Trainer
 WISPA Board Member - wispa.org http://www.wispa.org/
 Link Technologies, Inc -- Mikrotik  WISP Support Services
 WISPA Vendor Member*
 *Office*: 314-735-0270 *Website*: http://www.linktechs.net
 http://www.linktechs.net/
 */LIVE On-Line Mikrotik Training/*
 http://www.linktechs.net/onlinetraining.asp
 
 The information transmitted (including attachments) is covered by
 the Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. 2510-2521, is
 intended only for the person(s) or entity/entities to which
 it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged
 material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of,
 or taking of any action in reliance upon, this information by
 persons or entities other than the intended recipient(s) is
 prohibited, If you
 received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the
 material from any computer.
 
 
 
 
 
 e...@wisp-router.com wrote:
   
 MT and a consultant ;)
 
 /me laughing while running for cover
 
 Sent via BlackBerry from T

Re: [WISPA] Mesh just for kicks

[Scottie Arnett]

Yea! Thanks! That is it. So it became or some of the developers started
Meraki? 

Scottie

-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Matt Hardy
Sent: Thursday, February 19, 2009 5:14 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Mesh just for kicks


I think you're thinking of the MIT Roofnet project?
http://pdos.csail.mit.edu/roofnet/doku.php

:)

Scottie Arnett wrote:
 I was thinking of something else...can't remember what is was called. 
 A college was replacing the firmware in some Netgear WGR614L(best I 
 recall) routers and meshing the whole campus with it. Sorry for the 
 confusion.

 Scottie

 -- Original Message --
 From: John J. Thomas jtho...@quarnet.com
 Reply-To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
 Date:  Wed, 18 Feb 2009 18:49:14 +

   
 Some MME info

 http://wiki.mikrotik.com/wiki/MME_wireless_routing_protocol

 John

 
 -Original Message-
 From: Scottie Arnett [mailto:sarn...@info-ed.com]
 Sent: Tuesday, February 17, 2009 09:34 PM
 To: e...@wisp-router.com, 'WISPA General List'
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] Mesh just for kicks

 Too give credit where credit is due...did not a university do this 
 to begin with that worked really well...and all other versions are 
 built on it?

 Scottie

 -- Original Message --
 From: e...@wisp-router.com
 Reply-To: e...@wisp-router.com, WISPA General List 
 wireless@wispa.org
 Date:  Tue, 17 Feb 2009 16:36:32 +

   
 MikroTik has its MME implementation that is what should be used 
 instead of using WDS for a mesh setup. MME is as true mesh as it 
 gets.

 /Eje
 Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile

 -Original Message-
 From: Harold Bledsoe hbled...@deliberant.net

 Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2009 10:52:39
 To: WISPA General Listwireless@wispa.org
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] Mesh just for kicks


 Well there is also the mesh part too.  Is this what you guys are 
 talking about when you say MT mesh:  
 http://wiki.mikrotik.com/wiki/Mesh_wds

 If so, I would disagree that this is a good mesh implementation. 
 There are many, many more factors to consider when building an 
 infrastructure mesh.  The LigoMesh products take into account 
 signal strength, hops from GW, node load, datarate, etc. to 
 calculate the best path.  Also, there are dedicated radios for 
 uplink/downlink/service set to give high performance.

 On the other hand, if you don't need a carrier-grade infrastructure 
 mesh, Wiligear products based on the WBD-500 do support Open-Mesh 
 and should be available in the very near future on Streakwave's 
 website with the option to have them preloaded with Open-mesh 
 (board, indoor, and outdoor selections).

 I guess what I'm saying is that not all products are created equal 
 and there is certainly a place for each one.  Just be sure you know 
 what you are getting!

 -Hal


 -Original Message-
 From: os10ru...@gmail.com
 Reply-To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
 To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] Mesh just for kicks
 Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2009 10:38:04 -0430

 Mr. Burgess,

What frightens me about taking the leap into Mikrotik is it 
 appears
 the web interface is of no use in the advanced configuration and it  
 sounds like one must get heavily into the CLI and scripting. I don't  
 see an online repository of scripts for programming or even a highly  
 detailed help/wiki online. I'm guessing too many people are making too

 much money doing their Mikrotik training to give it away for free. So  
 because of the apparently steep learning curve I'm leery to make the  
 leap. The more easily configurable (and less powerful) solutions such  
 as Ubiquiti look more appealing to me at this point.

Would you disagree with my perspective? Is making the leap not 
 that
 bad?

 Greg
 On Feb 17, 2009, at 10:21 AM, Dennis Burgess wrote:

 
 Ya, don't know why ya don't want a MT solution.  Been there done 
 that and it works :)

 * ---
 Dennis Burgess, CCNA, A+, Mikrotik Certified Trainer WISPA Board 
 Member - wispa.org http://www.wispa.org/ Link Technologies, Inc 
 -- Mikrotik  WISP Support Services WISPA Vendor Member*
 *Office*: 314-735-0270 *Website*: http://www.linktechs.net
 http://www.linktechs.net/
 */LIVE On-Line Mikrotik Training/*
 http://www.linktechs.net/onlinetraining.asp

 The information transmitted (including attachments) is covered by
 the Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. 2510-2521, is  
 intended only for the person(s) or entity/entities to which
 it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged  
 material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of,  
 or taking of any action in reliance upon, this information by  
 persons or entities other than the intended recipient(s) is  
 prohibited, If you
 received this in error

Re: [WISPA] Mesh just for kicks

[Paul Kralovec]

How about StarOS

Paul D. Kralovec

President

Unplugged Cities, LLC

511 11th Ave. S 

Suite 241 

Minneapolis, MN 55415

 

W: 763-235-3001

F:  763-647-7998

C:  952-270-9107

www.unpluggedcities.com


-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of RickG
Sent: Tuesday, February 17, 2009 8:54 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Mesh just for kicks

There are pluses  minuses to each platform (Mikrotik  StarOS), but
if you want simple, StarOS is it.
-RickG

On Tue, Feb 17, 2009 at 5:20 PM, Matt Larsen - Lists
li...@manageisp.com wrote:
 Don't drink the Mikrotik kool-aid just yet.   You should probably give
 some consideration to StarOS.   StarOS has an excellent industry
 standard mesh routing protocol built in - OLSR - and the popular X4000
 platform is very low cost (~$350 or so in a four radio configuration).

 I tried Mikrotik and went back to StarOS because I saw much better
 performance and maintainability for the wireless networks that I design
 and operate.   Actual StarOS documentation is kind of sparse, but it
 uses a lot of standard Linux packages (OSLR, OSPF, quagga, cbq,
 iptables) that are well documented.

 Unfortunately, StarOS has not done a very good job of getting people
 trained or setting up good relationships with vendors, so you don't hear
 about it as much any more.   For what I do, it is better than Mikrotik
 and I'm very happy with it.

 Matt Larsen
 mlar...@inventivemedia.net


 os10ru...@gmail.com wrote:
 Mr. Burgess and the others who responded - thanks!

 I just downloaded Winbox and I'll be trying it with the x86 version on
 an old PC first.

 Mikrotik seems inevitable if one's network progresses beyond the
 something very small and simple. Thanks for the push!

 Greg

 On Feb 17, 2009, at 11:08 AM, Dennis Burgess wrote:


 The winbox interface will do everything you need in the mesh setup.
 If
 you want a turn key solution, its not what you are going to use. I can
 see that as you want something you plug in and it does magic,
 maybe.  lol.

 There is no scripting that is needed in mikrotik, and like I said, you
 can use Winbox for all configuration changes.  The web interface is
 not
 the way to go at all.There is a on-line Wiki, and a manual on-line
 that will tell you what you need to know, but you have to know how to
 implement it.  its not paste it in and magic happens.

 As far as making the leap, man I don't think so.  Eje I am sure would
 agree there?

 * ---
 Dennis Burgess, CCNA, A+, Mikrotik Certified Trainer
 WISPA Board Member - wispa.org http://www.wispa.org/
 Link Technologies, Inc -- Mikrotik  WISP Support Services
 WISPA Vendor Member*
 *Office*: 314-735-0270 *Website*: http://www.linktechs.net
 http://www.linktechs.net/
 */LIVE On-Line Mikrotik Training/*
 http://www.linktechs.net/onlinetraining.asp

 The information transmitted (including attachments) is covered by
 the Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. 2510-2521, is
 intended only for the person(s) or entity/entities to which
 it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged
 material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of,
 or taking of any action in reliance upon, this information by
 persons or entities other than the intended recipient(s) is
 prohibited, If you
 received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the
 material from any computer.





 os10ru...@gmail.com wrote:

 Mr. Burgess,

 What frightens me about taking the leap into Mikrotik is it appears
 the web interface is of no use in the advanced configuration and it
 sounds like one must get heavily into the CLI and scripting. I don't
 see an online repository of scripts for programming or even a highly
 detailed help/wiki online. I'm guessing too many people are making
 too
 much money doing their Mikrotik training to give it away for free. So
 because of the apparently steep learning curve I'm leery to make the
 leap. The more easily configurable (and less powerful) solutions such
 as Ubiquiti look more appealing to me at this point.

 Would you disagree with my perspective? Is making the leap not that
 bad?

 Greg
 On Feb 17, 2009, at 10:21 AM, Dennis Burgess wrote:



 Ya, don't know why ya don't want a MT solution.  Been there done
 that
 and it works :)

 * ---
 Dennis Burgess, CCNA, A+, Mikrotik Certified Trainer
 WISPA Board Member - wispa.org http://www.wispa.org/
 Link Technologies, Inc -- Mikrotik  WISP Support Services
 WISPA Vendor Member*
 *Office*: 314-735-0270 *Website*: http://www.linktechs.net
 http://www.linktechs.net/
 */LIVE On-Line Mikrotik Training/*
 http://www.linktechs.net/onlinetraining.asp

 The information transmitted (including attachments) is covered by
 the Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. 2510-2521, is
 intended only for the person(s

Re: [WISPA] Mesh just for kicks

[John J. Thomas]

Some MME info

http://wiki.mikrotik.com/wiki/MME_wireless_routing_protocol

John

-Original Message-
From: Scottie Arnett [mailto:sarn...@info-ed.com]
Sent: Tuesday, February 17, 2009 09:34 PM
To: e...@wisp-router.com, 'WISPA General List'
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Mesh just for kicks

Too give credit where credit is due...did not a university do this to begin 
with that worked really well...and all other versions are built on it?

Scottie

-- Original Message --
From: e...@wisp-router.com
Reply-To: e...@wisp-router.com, WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Date:  Tue, 17 Feb 2009 16:36:32 +

MikroTik has its MME implementation that is what should be used instead of 
using WDS for a mesh setup. MME is as true mesh as it gets. 

/Eje
Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile

-Original Message-
From: Harold Bledsoe hbled...@deliberant.net

Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2009 10:52:39 
To: WISPA General Listwireless@wispa.org
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Mesh just for kicks


Well there is also the mesh part too.  Is this what you guys are talking
about when you say MT mesh:  http://wiki.mikrotik.com/wiki/Mesh_wds

If so, I would disagree that this is a good mesh implementation.
There are many, many more factors to consider when building an
infrastructure mesh.  The LigoMesh products take into account signal
strength, hops from GW, node load, datarate, etc. to calculate the best
path.  Also, there are dedicated radios for uplink/downlink/service set
to give high performance.

On the other hand, if you don't need a carrier-grade infrastructure
mesh, Wiligear products based on the WBD-500 do support Open-Mesh and
should be available in the very near future on Streakwave's website with
the option to have them preloaded with Open-mesh (board, indoor, and
outdoor selections).

I guess what I'm saying is that not all products are created equal and
there is certainly a place for each one.  Just be sure you know what you
are getting!

-Hal


-Original Message-
From: os10ru...@gmail.com
Reply-To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Mesh just for kicks
Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2009 10:38:04 -0430

Mr. Burgess,

  What frightens me about taking the leap into Mikrotik is it appears  
the web interface is of no use in the advanced configuration and it  
sounds like one must get heavily into the CLI and scripting. I don't  
see an online repository of scripts for programming or even a highly  
detailed help/wiki online. I'm guessing too many people are making too  
much money doing their Mikrotik training to give it away for free. So  
because of the apparently steep learning curve I'm leery to make the  
leap. The more easily configurable (and less powerful) solutions such  
as Ubiquiti look more appealing to me at this point.

  Would you disagree with my perspective? Is making the leap not that  
bad?

Greg
On Feb 17, 2009, at 10:21 AM, Dennis Burgess wrote:

 Ya, don't know why ya don't want a MT solution.  Been there done that
 and it works :)

 * ---
 Dennis Burgess, CCNA, A+, Mikrotik Certified Trainer
 WISPA Board Member - wispa.org http://www.wispa.org/
 Link Technologies, Inc -- Mikrotik  WISP Support Services
 WISPA Vendor Member*
 *Office*: 314-735-0270 *Website*: http://www.linktechs.net
 http://www.linktechs.net/
 */LIVE On-Line Mikrotik Training/*
 http://www.linktechs.net/onlinetraining.asp

 The information transmitted (including attachments) is covered by  
 the Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. 2510-2521, is  
 intended only for the person(s) or entity/entities to which
 it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged  
 material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of,  
 or taking of any action in reliance upon, this information by  
 persons or entities other than the intended recipient(s) is  
 prohibited, If you
 received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the  
 material from any computer.





 e...@wisp-router.com wrote:
 MT and a consultant ;)

 /me laughing while running for cover

 Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile

 -Original Message-
 From: Scott Vander Dussen sc...@velociter.net

 Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2009 21:13:03
 To: WISPA General Listwireless@wispa.org
 Subject: [WISPA] Mesh just for kicks


 Looking to deploy a small mesh network downtown in a small city  
 just for kicks.  Low budget ($4k for ~10 nodes) - just want to get  
 my feet wet and have some fun.

 I'd charge for the service if it was easy enough to do and it  
 worked good enough to justify a cost, otherwise free.  Was hoping  
 there is was a turn-key solution (PLEASE don't suggest Mikrotik - I  
 could ask for a recommendation on how to remove chest hair and  
 someone will mention MT).  Anyhow, turn-key like Meraki advertises  
 would be cool.  How about the Pico2HP - is there a firmware

Re: [WISPA] Mesh just for kicks

[Scottie Arnett]

I was thinking of something else...can't remember what is was called. A college 
was replacing the firmware in some Netgear WGR614L(best I recall) routers and 
meshing the whole campus with it. Sorry for the confusion.

Scottie

-- Original Message --
From: John J. Thomas jtho...@quarnet.com
Reply-To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Date:  Wed, 18 Feb 2009 18:49:14 +

Some MME info

http://wiki.mikrotik.com/wiki/MME_wireless_routing_protocol

John

-Original Message-
From: Scottie Arnett [mailto:sarn...@info-ed.com]
Sent: Tuesday, February 17, 2009 09:34 PM
To: e...@wisp-router.com, 'WISPA General List'
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Mesh just for kicks

Too give credit where credit is due...did not a university do this to begin 
with that worked really well...and all other versions are built on it?

Scottie

-- Original Message --
From: e...@wisp-router.com
Reply-To: e...@wisp-router.com, WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Date:  Tue, 17 Feb 2009 16:36:32 +

MikroTik has its MME implementation that is what should be used instead of 
using WDS for a mesh setup. MME is as true mesh as it gets. 

/Eje
Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile

-Original Message-
From: Harold Bledsoe hbled...@deliberant.net

Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2009 10:52:39 
To: WISPA General Listwireless@wispa.org
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Mesh just for kicks


Well there is also the mesh part too.  Is this what you guys are talking
about when you say MT mesh:  http://wiki.mikrotik.com/wiki/Mesh_wds

If so, I would disagree that this is a good mesh implementation.
There are many, many more factors to consider when building an
infrastructure mesh.  The LigoMesh products take into account signal
strength, hops from GW, node load, datarate, etc. to calculate the best
path.  Also, there are dedicated radios for uplink/downlink/service set
to give high performance.

On the other hand, if you don't need a carrier-grade infrastructure
mesh, Wiligear products based on the WBD-500 do support Open-Mesh and
should be available in the very near future on Streakwave's website with
the option to have them preloaded with Open-mesh (board, indoor, and
outdoor selections).

I guess what I'm saying is that not all products are created equal and
there is certainly a place for each one.  Just be sure you know what you
are getting!

-Hal


-Original Message-
From: os10ru...@gmail.com
Reply-To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Mesh just for kicks
Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2009 10:38:04 -0430

Mr. Burgess,

 What frightens me about taking the leap into Mikrotik is it appears  
the web interface is of no use in the advanced configuration and it  
sounds like one must get heavily into the CLI and scripting. I don't  
see an online repository of scripts for programming or even a highly  
detailed help/wiki online. I'm guessing too many people are making too  
much money doing their Mikrotik training to give it away for free. So  
because of the apparently steep learning curve I'm leery to make the  
leap. The more easily configurable (and less powerful) solutions such  
as Ubiquiti look more appealing to me at this point.

 Would you disagree with my perspective? Is making the leap not that  
bad?

Greg
On Feb 17, 2009, at 10:21 AM, Dennis Burgess wrote:

 Ya, don't know why ya don't want a MT solution.  Been there done that
 and it works :)

 * ---
 Dennis Burgess, CCNA, A+, Mikrotik Certified Trainer
 WISPA Board Member - wispa.org http://www.wispa.org/
 Link Technologies, Inc -- Mikrotik  WISP Support Services
 WISPA Vendor Member*
 *Office*: 314-735-0270 *Website*: http://www.linktechs.net
 http://www.linktechs.net/
 */LIVE On-Line Mikrotik Training/*
 http://www.linktechs.net/onlinetraining.asp

 The information transmitted (including attachments) is covered by  
 the Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. 2510-2521, is  
 intended only for the person(s) or entity/entities to which
 it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged  
 material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of,  
 or taking of any action in reliance upon, this information by  
 persons or entities other than the intended recipient(s) is  
 prohibited, If you
 received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the  
 material from any computer.





 e...@wisp-router.com wrote:
 MT and a consultant ;)

 /me laughing while running for cover

 Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile

 -Original Message-
 From: Scott Vander Dussen sc...@velociter.net

 Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2009 21:13:03
 To: WISPA General Listwireless@wispa.org
 Subject: [WISPA] Mesh just for kicks


 Looking to deploy a small mesh network downtown in a small city  
 just for kicks.  Low budget ($4k for ~10 nodes) - just want to get  
 my feet wet and have

Re: [WISPA] Mesh just for kicks

[Charles Wu]

A new movement started after Meraki turned to the dark-side a few years ago

Open Mesh Picks Up Where Meraki Left Off
As in, dirt cheap mesh networking gear for communities

A new mesh-networking project by the co-founder of NetEquality and the 
developer of mesh-networking management software might give Meraki a run for 
their money. Well perhaps not, but at least they're taking aim at the low-cost 
Wi-Fi market Meraki targeted before recent business decisions threw their 
original promise off course.
http://www.dslreports.com/shownews/Open-Mesh-Picks-Up-Where-Meraki-Left-Off-92532

More info on Open Mesh
http://www.open-mesh.com/store/

-Charles

-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf 
Of Scott Vander Dussen
Sent: Monday, February 16, 2009 11:13 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: [WISPA] Mesh just for kicks

Looking to deploy a small mesh network downtown in a small city just for kicks. 
 Low budget ($4k for ~10 nodes) - just want to get my feet wet and have some 
fun.

I'd charge for the service if it was easy enough to do and it worked good 
enough to justify a cost, otherwise free.  Was hoping there is was a turn-key 
solution (PLEASE don't suggest Mikrotik - I could ask for a recommendation on 
how to remove chest hair and someone will mention MT).  Anyhow, turn-key like 
Meraki advertises would be cool.  How about the Pico2HP - is there a firmware 
that works on those that could mesh?  Very new to mesh - thanks in advance.

`S

PS- Please don't hijack the thread defending how great MT is and how it can 
save the world etc.. not bashing, just want plug+play which != MT.  (:



WISPA Wants You! Join today!
http://signup.wispa.org/


WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/

This message is intended only for the use of the individual or entity to which 
it is addressed and may contain information that is privileged, confidential 
and exempt from disclosure under applicable law. If the reader of this message 
is not the intended recipient, or the employee or agent responsible for 
delivery of the message to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that 
any dissemination, distribution or copying of this communication is strictly 
prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us 
immediately by telephone at 630-344-1586.



WISPA Wants You! Join today!
http://signup.wispa.org/

 
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/

Re: [WISPA] Mesh just for kicks

[Dennis Burgess]

Ya, don't know why ya don't want a MT solution.  Been there done that 
and it works :) 

* ---
Dennis Burgess, CCNA, A+, Mikrotik Certified Trainer
WISPA Board Member - wispa.org http://www.wispa.org/
Link Technologies, Inc -- Mikrotik  WISP Support Services
WISPA Vendor Member*
*Office*: 314-735-0270 *Website*: http://www.linktechs.net 
http://www.linktechs.net/
*/LIVE On-Line Mikrotik Training/* 
http://www.linktechs.net/onlinetraining.asp

The information transmitted (including attachments) is covered by the 
Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. 2510-2521, is intended only 
for the person(s) or entity/entities to which 
it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any 
review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action 
in reliance upon, this information by persons or entities other than the 
intended recipient(s) is prohibited, If you 
received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from 
any computer.

 



e...@wisp-router.com wrote:
 MT and a consultant ;)

 /me laughing while running for cover
  
 Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile

 -Original Message-
 From: Scott Vander Dussen sc...@velociter.net

 Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2009 21:13:03 
 To: WISPA General Listwireless@wispa.org
 Subject: [WISPA] Mesh just for kicks


 Looking to deploy a small mesh network downtown in a small city just for 
 kicks.  Low budget ($4k for ~10 nodes) - just want to get my feet wet and 
 have some fun.

 I'd charge for the service if it was easy enough to do and it worked good 
 enough to justify a cost, otherwise free.  Was hoping there is was a turn-key 
 solution (PLEASE don't suggest Mikrotik - I could ask for a recommendation on 
 how to remove chest hair and someone will mention MT).  Anyhow, turn-key like 
 Meraki advertises would be cool.  How about the Pico2HP - is there a firmware 
 that works on those that could mesh?  Very new to mesh - thanks in advance.

 `S

 PS- Please don't hijack the thread defending how great MT is and how it can 
 save the world etc.. not bashing, just want plug+play which != MT.  (:


 
 WISPA Wants You! Join today!
 http://signup.wispa.org/
 
  
 WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

 Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
 http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

 Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/


 
 WISPA Wants You! Join today!
 http://signup.wispa.org/
 
  
 WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

 Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
 http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

 Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
   



WISPA Wants You! Join today!
http://signup.wispa.org/

 
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/

Re: [WISPA] Mesh just for kicks

[os10rules]

Mr. Burgess,

What frightens me about taking the leap into Mikrotik is it appears  
the web interface is of no use in the advanced configuration and it  
sounds like one must get heavily into the CLI and scripting. I don't  
see an online repository of scripts for programming or even a highly  
detailed help/wiki online. I'm guessing too many people are making too  
much money doing their Mikrotik training to give it away for free. So  
because of the apparently steep learning curve I'm leery to make the  
leap. The more easily configurable (and less powerful) solutions such  
as Ubiquiti look more appealing to me at this point.

Would you disagree with my perspective? Is making the leap not that  
bad?

Greg
On Feb 17, 2009, at 10:21 AM, Dennis Burgess wrote:

 Ya, don't know why ya don't want a MT solution.  Been there done that
 and it works :)

 * ---
 Dennis Burgess, CCNA, A+, Mikrotik Certified Trainer
 WISPA Board Member - wispa.org http://www.wispa.org/
 Link Technologies, Inc -- Mikrotik  WISP Support Services
 WISPA Vendor Member*
 *Office*: 314-735-0270 *Website*: http://www.linktechs.net
 http://www.linktechs.net/
 */LIVE On-Line Mikrotik Training/*
 http://www.linktechs.net/onlinetraining.asp

 The information transmitted (including attachments) is covered by  
 the Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. 2510-2521, is  
 intended only for the person(s) or entity/entities to which
 it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged  
 material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of,  
 or taking of any action in reliance upon, this information by  
 persons or entities other than the intended recipient(s) is  
 prohibited, If you
 received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the  
 material from any computer.





 e...@wisp-router.com wrote:
 MT and a consultant ;)

 /me laughing while running for cover

 Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile

 -Original Message-
 From: Scott Vander Dussen sc...@velociter.net

 Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2009 21:13:03
 To: WISPA General Listwireless@wispa.org
 Subject: [WISPA] Mesh just for kicks


 Looking to deploy a small mesh network downtown in a small city  
 just for kicks.  Low budget ($4k for ~10 nodes) - just want to get  
 my feet wet and have some fun.

 I'd charge for the service if it was easy enough to do and it  
 worked good enough to justify a cost, otherwise free.  Was hoping  
 there is was a turn-key solution (PLEASE don't suggest Mikrotik - I  
 could ask for a recommendation on how to remove chest hair and  
 someone will mention MT).  Anyhow, turn-key like Meraki advertises  
 would be cool.  How about the Pico2HP - is there a firmware that  
 works on those that could mesh?  Very new to mesh - thanks in  
 advance.

 `S

 PS- Please don't hijack the thread defending how great MT is and  
 how it can save the world etc.. not bashing, just want plug+play  
 which != MT.  (:


 
 WISPA Wants You! Join today!
 http://signup.wispa.org/
 

 WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

 Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
 http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

 Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/


 
 WISPA Wants You! Join today!
 http://signup.wispa.org/
 

 WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

 Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
 http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

 Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/



 
 WISPA Wants You! Join today!
 http://signup.wispa.org/
 

 WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

 Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
 http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

 Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/




WISPA Wants You! Join today!
http://signup.wispa.org/

 
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/

Re: [WISPA] Mesh just for kicks

[David E. Smith]

os10ru...@gmail.com wrote:

   What frightens me about taking the leap into Mikrotik is it appears  
 the web interface is of no use in the advanced configuration and it  
 sounds like one must get heavily into the CLI and scripting. I don't  
 see an online repository of scripts for programming or even a highly  
 detailed help/wiki online.

The Web interface is kinda a joke, but the preferred GUI is probably 
Winbox anyway. Winbox is a small proprietary (and Windows-only) 
utility, that you can download via the Web interface, that exposes most 
functionality.

The documentation on Mikrotik's Web site is actually pretty thorough, 
with the caveat that it's always about one version behind. The wiki 
isn't the best, but it has a few clever tricks here and there.

Mikrotik RouterOS's greatest strength is that you can do just about 
anything with it - the same device can do routing, firewalling, traffic 
shaping, BGP, wireless access, wireless client, RADIUS, and about 873 
other things. Its greatest weakness is that you can do just about 
anything with it ...

Fortunately, just about everything is turned off by default, and you can 
usually just ignore the features you're not using. :)

David Smith
MVN.net



WISPA Wants You! Join today!
http://signup.wispa.org/

 
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/

Re: [WISPA] Mesh just for kicks

[eje]

Winbox. Then very little need for CLI. There is nothing you can not do through 
winbox that you can not do through CLI. Scripting most people do not use it or 
just use it to execute simple CLI instructions. You have a bunch of script 
samples on wiki.mikrotik.com. 
Like with any advanced networking product there is a little learning curve. But 
reason why most people have problems getting a grip on MikroTik is that their 
network knowledge is limited so they have problem understanding the routing 
concept and understanding how ip works and flows with its source ports, 
destination ports so they have issues creating firewall rules etc. On the 
WISP-Training Mikrotik class (the training material Butch and me created) the 
primary reason it was created was to teach how routing, sub netting and ip 
flows worked and of course from a view point in how to configure this with 
MikroTik. It's a whole lot easier to get running then say a Cisco router where 
everything have to be CLI and firewalling rule creation imo is very cryptic and 
not very straight forward. 

/Eje Gustafsson
CTO
WISP-Router, Inc
Bringing MikroTik to the masses since 2002. 
Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile

-Original Message-
From: os10ru...@gmail.com

Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2009 10:38:04 
To: WISPA General Listwireless@wispa.org
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Mesh just for kicks


Mr. Burgess,

What frightens me about taking the leap into Mikrotik is it appears  
the web interface is of no use in the advanced configuration and it  
sounds like one must get heavily into the CLI and scripting. I don't  
see an online repository of scripts for programming or even a highly  
detailed help/wiki online. I'm guessing too many people are making too  
much money doing their Mikrotik training to give it away for free. So  
because of the apparently steep learning curve I'm leery to make the  
leap. The more easily configurable (and less powerful) solutions such  
as Ubiquiti look more appealing to me at this point.

Would you disagree with my perspective? Is making the leap not that  
bad?

Greg
On Feb 17, 2009, at 10:21 AM, Dennis Burgess wrote:

 Ya, don't know why ya don't want a MT solution.  Been there done that
 and it works :)

 * ---
 Dennis Burgess, CCNA, A+, Mikrotik Certified Trainer
 WISPA Board Member - wispa.org http://www.wispa.org/
 Link Technologies, Inc -- Mikrotik  WISP Support Services
 WISPA Vendor Member*
 *Office*: 314-735-0270 *Website*: http://www.linktechs.net
 http://www.linktechs.net/
 */LIVE On-Line Mikrotik Training/*
 http://www.linktechs.net/onlinetraining.asp

 The information transmitted (including attachments) is covered by  
 the Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. 2510-2521, is  
 intended only for the person(s) or entity/entities to which
 it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged  
 material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of,  
 or taking of any action in reliance upon, this information by  
 persons or entities other than the intended recipient(s) is  
 prohibited, If you
 received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the  
 material from any computer.





 e...@wisp-router.com wrote:
 MT and a consultant ;)

 /me laughing while running for cover

 Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile

 -Original Message-
 From: Scott Vander Dussen sc...@velociter.net

 Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2009 21:13:03
 To: WISPA General Listwireless@wispa.org
 Subject: [WISPA] Mesh just for kicks


 Looking to deploy a small mesh network downtown in a small city  
 just for kicks.  Low budget ($4k for ~10 nodes) - just want to get  
 my feet wet and have some fun.

 I'd charge for the service if it was easy enough to do and it  
 worked good enough to justify a cost, otherwise free.  Was hoping  
 there is was a turn-key solution (PLEASE don't suggest Mikrotik - I  
 could ask for a recommendation on how to remove chest hair and  
 someone will mention MT).  Anyhow, turn-key like Meraki advertises  
 would be cool.  How about the Pico2HP - is there a firmware that  
 works on those that could mesh?  Very new to mesh - thanks in  
 advance.

 `S

 PS- Please don't hijack the thread defending how great MT is and  
 how it can save the world etc.. not bashing, just want plug+play  
 which != MT.  (:


 
 WISPA Wants You! Join today!
 http://signup.wispa.org/
 

 WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

 Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
 http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

 Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/


 
 WISPA Wants You! Join today!
 http://signup.wispa.org

Re: [WISPA] Mesh just for kicks

[Dennis Burgess]

The winbox interface will do everything you need in the mesh setup.  If 
you want a turn key solution, its not what you are going to use. I can 
see that as you want something you plug in and it does magic, maybe.  lol. 

There is no scripting that is needed in mikrotik, and like I said, you 
can use Winbox for all configuration changes.  The web interface is not 
the way to go at all.There is a on-line Wiki, and a manual on-line 
that will tell you what you need to know, but you have to know how to 
implement it.  its not paste it in and magic happens. 

As far as making the leap, man I don't think so.  Eje I am sure would 
agree there?

* ---
Dennis Burgess, CCNA, A+, Mikrotik Certified Trainer
WISPA Board Member - wispa.org http://www.wispa.org/
Link Technologies, Inc -- Mikrotik  WISP Support Services
WISPA Vendor Member*
*Office*: 314-735-0270 *Website*: http://www.linktechs.net 
http://www.linktechs.net/
*/LIVE On-Line Mikrotik Training/* 
http://www.linktechs.net/onlinetraining.asp

The information transmitted (including attachments) is covered by the 
Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. 2510-2521, is intended only 
for the person(s) or entity/entities to which 
it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any 
review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action 
in reliance upon, this information by persons or entities other than the 
intended recipient(s) is prohibited, If you 
received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from 
any computer.

 



os10ru...@gmail.com wrote:
 Mr. Burgess,

   What frightens me about taking the leap into Mikrotik is it appears  
 the web interface is of no use in the advanced configuration and it  
 sounds like one must get heavily into the CLI and scripting. I don't  
 see an online repository of scripts for programming or even a highly  
 detailed help/wiki online. I'm guessing too many people are making too  
 much money doing their Mikrotik training to give it away for free. So  
 because of the apparently steep learning curve I'm leery to make the  
 leap. The more easily configurable (and less powerful) solutions such  
 as Ubiquiti look more appealing to me at this point.

   Would you disagree with my perspective? Is making the leap not that  
 bad?

 Greg
 On Feb 17, 2009, at 10:21 AM, Dennis Burgess wrote:

   
 Ya, don't know why ya don't want a MT solution.  Been there done that
 and it works :)

 * ---
 Dennis Burgess, CCNA, A+, Mikrotik Certified Trainer
 WISPA Board Member - wispa.org http://www.wispa.org/
 Link Technologies, Inc -- Mikrotik  WISP Support Services
 WISPA Vendor Member*
 *Office*: 314-735-0270 *Website*: http://www.linktechs.net
 http://www.linktechs.net/
 */LIVE On-Line Mikrotik Training/*
 http://www.linktechs.net/onlinetraining.asp

 The information transmitted (including attachments) is covered by  
 the Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. 2510-2521, is  
 intended only for the person(s) or entity/entities to which
 it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged  
 material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of,  
 or taking of any action in reliance upon, this information by  
 persons or entities other than the intended recipient(s) is  
 prohibited, If you
 received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the  
 material from any computer.





 e...@wisp-router.com wrote:
 
 MT and a consultant ;)

 /me laughing while running for cover

 Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile

 -Original Message-
 From: Scott Vander Dussen sc...@velociter.net

 Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2009 21:13:03
 To: WISPA General Listwireless@wispa.org
 Subject: [WISPA] Mesh just for kicks


 Looking to deploy a small mesh network downtown in a small city  
 just for kicks.  Low budget ($4k for ~10 nodes) - just want to get  
 my feet wet and have some fun.

 I'd charge for the service if it was easy enough to do and it  
 worked good enough to justify a cost, otherwise free.  Was hoping  
 there is was a turn-key solution (PLEASE don't suggest Mikrotik - I  
 could ask for a recommendation on how to remove chest hair and  
 someone will mention MT).  Anyhow, turn-key like Meraki advertises  
 would be cool.  How about the Pico2HP - is there a firmware that  
 works on those that could mesh?  Very new to mesh - thanks in  
 advance.

 `S

 PS- Please don't hijack the thread defending how great MT is and  
 how it can save the world etc.. not bashing, just want plug+play  
 which != MT.  (:


 
 WISPA Wants You! Join today!
 http://signup.wispa.org/
 

 WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

 Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
 

Re: [WISPA] Mesh just for kicks

[Dennis Burgess]

One of the big things with MT as David said, is that normally people are 
used to doing routing on one device.  Now you have 800+ things it can 
do.  Putting it all together is the hard part.

I do a training class on-line, that is designed to teach everything 
about RouterOS.  We teach TCP/IP, routing, and how data flows as well.

* ---
Dennis Burgess, CCNA, A+, Mikrotik Certified Trainer
WISPA Board Member - wispa.org http://www.wispa.org/
Link Technologies, Inc -- Mikrotik  WISP Support Services
WISPA Vendor Member*
*Office*: 314-735-0270 *Website*: http://www.linktechs.net 
http://www.linktechs.net/
*/LIVE On-Line Mikrotik Training/* 
http://www.linktechs.net/onlinetraining.asp

The information transmitted (including attachments) is covered by the 
Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. 2510-2521, is intended only 
for the person(s) or entity/entities to which 
it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any 
review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action 
in reliance upon, this information by persons or entities other than the 
intended recipient(s) is prohibited, If you 
received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from 
any computer.

 



e...@wisp-router.com wrote:
 Winbox. Then very little need for CLI. There is nothing you can not do 
 through winbox that you can not do through CLI. Scripting most people do not 
 use it or just use it to execute simple CLI instructions. You have a bunch of 
 script samples on wiki.mikrotik.com. 
 Like with any advanced networking product there is a little learning curve. 
 But reason why most people have problems getting a grip on MikroTik is that 
 their network knowledge is limited so they have problem understanding the 
 routing concept and understanding how ip works and flows with its source 
 ports, destination ports so they have issues creating firewall rules etc. On 
 the WISP-Training Mikrotik class (the training material Butch and me created) 
 the primary reason it was created was to teach how routing, sub netting and 
 ip flows worked and of course from a view point in how to configure this with 
 MikroTik. It's a whole lot easier to get running then say a Cisco router 
 where everything have to be CLI and firewalling rule creation imo is very 
 cryptic and not very straight forward. 

 /Eje Gustafsson
 CTO
 WISP-Router, Inc
 Bringing MikroTik to the masses since 2002. 
 Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile

 -Original Message-
 From: os10ru...@gmail.com

 Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2009 10:38:04 
 To: WISPA General Listwireless@wispa.org
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] Mesh just for kicks


 Mr. Burgess,

   What frightens me about taking the leap into Mikrotik is it appears  
 the web interface is of no use in the advanced configuration and it  
 sounds like one must get heavily into the CLI and scripting. I don't  
 see an online repository of scripts for programming or even a highly  
 detailed help/wiki online. I'm guessing too many people are making too  
 much money doing their Mikrotik training to give it away for free. So  
 because of the apparently steep learning curve I'm leery to make the  
 leap. The more easily configurable (and less powerful) solutions such  
 as Ubiquiti look more appealing to me at this point.

   Would you disagree with my perspective? Is making the leap not that  
 bad?

 Greg
 On Feb 17, 2009, at 10:21 AM, Dennis Burgess wrote:

   
 Ya, don't know why ya don't want a MT solution.  Been there done that
 and it works :)

 * ---
 Dennis Burgess, CCNA, A+, Mikrotik Certified Trainer
 WISPA Board Member - wispa.org http://www.wispa.org/
 Link Technologies, Inc -- Mikrotik  WISP Support Services
 WISPA Vendor Member*
 *Office*: 314-735-0270 *Website*: http://www.linktechs.net
 http://www.linktechs.net/
 */LIVE On-Line Mikrotik Training/*
 http://www.linktechs.net/onlinetraining.asp

 The information transmitted (including attachments) is covered by  
 the Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. 2510-2521, is  
 intended only for the person(s) or entity/entities to which
 it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged  
 material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of,  
 or taking of any action in reliance upon, this information by  
 persons or entities other than the intended recipient(s) is  
 prohibited, If you
 received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the  
 material from any computer.





 e...@wisp-router.com wrote:
 
 MT and a consultant ;)

 /me laughing while running for cover

 Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile

 -Original Message-
 From: Scott Vander Dussen sc...@velociter.net

 Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2009 21:13:03
 To: WISPA General Listwireless@wispa.org
 Subject: [WISPA] Mesh just for kicks


 Looking to deploy a small mesh

Re: [WISPA] Mesh just for kicks

[os10rules]

Mr. Burgess and the others who responded - thanks!

I just downloaded Winbox and I'll be trying it with the x86 version on  
an old PC first.

Mikrotik seems inevitable if one's network progresses beyond the  
something very small and simple. Thanks for the push!

Greg

On Feb 17, 2009, at 11:08 AM, Dennis Burgess wrote:

 The winbox interface will do everything you need in the mesh setup.   
 If
 you want a turn key solution, its not what you are going to use. I can
 see that as you want something you plug in and it does magic,  
 maybe.  lol.

 There is no scripting that is needed in mikrotik, and like I said, you
 can use Winbox for all configuration changes.  The web interface is  
 not
 the way to go at all.There is a on-line Wiki, and a manual on-line
 that will tell you what you need to know, but you have to know how to
 implement it.  its not paste it in and magic happens.

 As far as making the leap, man I don't think so.  Eje I am sure would
 agree there?

 * ---
 Dennis Burgess, CCNA, A+, Mikrotik Certified Trainer
 WISPA Board Member - wispa.org http://www.wispa.org/
 Link Technologies, Inc -- Mikrotik  WISP Support Services
 WISPA Vendor Member*
 *Office*: 314-735-0270 *Website*: http://www.linktechs.net
 http://www.linktechs.net/
 */LIVE On-Line Mikrotik Training/*
 http://www.linktechs.net/onlinetraining.asp

 The information transmitted (including attachments) is covered by  
 the Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. 2510-2521, is  
 intended only for the person(s) or entity/entities to which
 it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged  
 material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of,  
 or taking of any action in reliance upon, this information by  
 persons or entities other than the intended recipient(s) is  
 prohibited, If you
 received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the  
 material from any computer.





 os10ru...@gmail.com wrote:
 Mr. Burgess,

  What frightens me about taking the leap into Mikrotik is it appears
 the web interface is of no use in the advanced configuration and it
 sounds like one must get heavily into the CLI and scripting. I don't
 see an online repository of scripts for programming or even a highly
 detailed help/wiki online. I'm guessing too many people are making  
 too
 much money doing their Mikrotik training to give it away for free. So
 because of the apparently steep learning curve I'm leery to make the
 leap. The more easily configurable (and less powerful) solutions such
 as Ubiquiti look more appealing to me at this point.

  Would you disagree with my perspective? Is making the leap not that
 bad?

 Greg
 On Feb 17, 2009, at 10:21 AM, Dennis Burgess wrote:


 Ya, don't know why ya don't want a MT solution.  Been there done  
 that
 and it works :)

 * ---
 Dennis Burgess, CCNA, A+, Mikrotik Certified Trainer
 WISPA Board Member - wispa.org http://www.wispa.org/
 Link Technologies, Inc -- Mikrotik  WISP Support Services
 WISPA Vendor Member*
 *Office*: 314-735-0270 *Website*: http://www.linktechs.net
 http://www.linktechs.net/
 */LIVE On-Line Mikrotik Training/*
 http://www.linktechs.net/onlinetraining.asp

 The information transmitted (including attachments) is covered by
 the Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. 2510-2521, is
 intended only for the person(s) or entity/entities to which
 it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged
 material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of,
 or taking of any action in reliance upon, this information by
 persons or entities other than the intended recipient(s) is
 prohibited, If you
 received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the
 material from any computer.





 e...@wisp-router.com wrote:

 MT and a consultant ;)

 /me laughing while running for cover

 Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile

 -Original Message-
 From: Scott Vander Dussen sc...@velociter.net

 Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2009 21:13:03
 To: WISPA General Listwireless@wispa.org
 Subject: [WISPA] Mesh just for kicks


 Looking to deploy a small mesh network downtown in a small city
 just for kicks.  Low budget ($4k for ~10 nodes) - just want to get
 my feet wet and have some fun.

 I'd charge for the service if it was easy enough to do and it
 worked good enough to justify a cost, otherwise free.  Was hoping
 there is was a turn-key solution (PLEASE don't suggest Mikrotik - I
 could ask for a recommendation on how to remove chest hair and
 someone will mention MT).  Anyhow, turn-key like Meraki advertises
 would be cool.  How about the Pico2HP - is there a firmware that
 works on those that could mesh?  Very new to mesh - thanks in
 advance.

 `S

 PS- Please don't hijack the thread defending how great MT is and
 how it can save the world etc.. not bashing, just want plug+play
 which != 

Re: [WISPA] Mesh just for kicks

[Harold Bledsoe]

Well there is also the mesh part too.  Is this what you guys are talking
about when you say MT mesh:  http://wiki.mikrotik.com/wiki/Mesh_wds

If so, I would disagree that this is a good mesh implementation.
There are many, many more factors to consider when building an
infrastructure mesh.  The LigoMesh products take into account signal
strength, hops from GW, node load, datarate, etc. to calculate the best
path.  Also, there are dedicated radios for uplink/downlink/service set
to give high performance.

On the other hand, if you don't need a carrier-grade infrastructure
mesh, Wiligear products based on the WBD-500 do support Open-Mesh and
should be available in the very near future on Streakwave's website with
the option to have them preloaded with Open-mesh (board, indoor, and
outdoor selections).

I guess what I'm saying is that not all products are created equal and
there is certainly a place for each one.  Just be sure you know what you
are getting!

-Hal


-Original Message-
From: os10ru...@gmail.com
Reply-To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Mesh just for kicks
Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2009 10:38:04 -0430

Mr. Burgess,

What frightens me about taking the leap into Mikrotik is it appears  
the web interface is of no use in the advanced configuration and it  
sounds like one must get heavily into the CLI and scripting. I don't  
see an online repository of scripts for programming or even a highly  
detailed help/wiki online. I'm guessing too many people are making too  
much money doing their Mikrotik training to give it away for free. So  
because of the apparently steep learning curve I'm leery to make the  
leap. The more easily configurable (and less powerful) solutions such  
as Ubiquiti look more appealing to me at this point.

Would you disagree with my perspective? Is making the leap not that  
bad?

Greg
On Feb 17, 2009, at 10:21 AM, Dennis Burgess wrote:

 Ya, don't know why ya don't want a MT solution.  Been there done that
 and it works :)

 * ---
 Dennis Burgess, CCNA, A+, Mikrotik Certified Trainer
 WISPA Board Member - wispa.org http://www.wispa.org/
 Link Technologies, Inc -- Mikrotik  WISP Support Services
 WISPA Vendor Member*
 *Office*: 314-735-0270 *Website*: http://www.linktechs.net
 http://www.linktechs.net/
 */LIVE On-Line Mikrotik Training/*
 http://www.linktechs.net/onlinetraining.asp

 The information transmitted (including attachments) is covered by  
 the Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. 2510-2521, is  
 intended only for the person(s) or entity/entities to which
 it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged  
 material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of,  
 or taking of any action in reliance upon, this information by  
 persons or entities other than the intended recipient(s) is  
 prohibited, If you
 received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the  
 material from any computer.





 e...@wisp-router.com wrote:
 MT and a consultant ;)

 /me laughing while running for cover

 Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile

 -Original Message-
 From: Scott Vander Dussen sc...@velociter.net

 Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2009 21:13:03
 To: WISPA General Listwireless@wispa.org
 Subject: [WISPA] Mesh just for kicks


 Looking to deploy a small mesh network downtown in a small city  
 just for kicks.  Low budget ($4k for ~10 nodes) - just want to get  
 my feet wet and have some fun.

 I'd charge for the service if it was easy enough to do and it  
 worked good enough to justify a cost, otherwise free.  Was hoping  
 there is was a turn-key solution (PLEASE don't suggest Mikrotik - I  
 could ask for a recommendation on how to remove chest hair and  
 someone will mention MT).  Anyhow, turn-key like Meraki advertises  
 would be cool.  How about the Pico2HP - is there a firmware that  
 works on those that could mesh?  Very new to mesh - thanks in  
 advance.

 `S

 PS- Please don't hijack the thread defending how great MT is and  
 how it can save the world etc.. not bashing, just want plug+play  
 which != MT.  (:


 
 WISPA Wants You! Join today!
 http://signup.wispa.org/
 

 WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

 Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
 http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

 Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/


 
 WISPA Wants You! Join today!
 http://signup.wispa.org/
 

 WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

 Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
 http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

 Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail

Re: [WISPA] Mesh just for kicks

[Scott Vander Dussen]

**sigh**  So anyhow, about my chest hair..

`S

-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf 
Of os10ru...@gmail.com
Sent: Tuesday, February 17, 2009 7:49 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Mesh just for kicks

Mr. Burgess and the others who responded - thanks!

I just downloaded Winbox and I'll be trying it with the x86 version on
an old PC first.

Mikrotik seems inevitable if one's network progresses beyond the
something very small and simple. Thanks for the push!

Greg

On Feb 17, 2009, at 11:08 AM, Dennis Burgess wrote:

 The winbox interface will do everything you need in the mesh setup.
 If
 you want a turn key solution, its not what you are going to use. I can
 see that as you want something you plug in and it does magic,
 maybe.  lol.

 There is no scripting that is needed in mikrotik, and like I said, you
 can use Winbox for all configuration changes.  The web interface is
 not
 the way to go at all.There is a on-line Wiki, and a manual on-line
 that will tell you what you need to know, but you have to know how to
 implement it.  its not paste it in and magic happens.

 As far as making the leap, man I don't think so.  Eje I am sure would
 agree there?

 * ---
 Dennis Burgess, CCNA, A+, Mikrotik Certified Trainer
 WISPA Board Member - wispa.org http://www.wispa.org/
 Link Technologies, Inc -- Mikrotik  WISP Support Services
 WISPA Vendor Member*
 *Office*: 314-735-0270 *Website*: http://www.linktechs.net
 http://www.linktechs.net/
 */LIVE On-Line Mikrotik Training/*
 http://www.linktechs.net/onlinetraining.asp

 The information transmitted (including attachments) is covered by
 the Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. 2510-2521, is
 intended only for the person(s) or entity/entities to which
 it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged
 material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of,
 or taking of any action in reliance upon, this information by
 persons or entities other than the intended recipient(s) is
 prohibited, If you
 received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the
 material from any computer.





 os10ru...@gmail.com wrote:
 Mr. Burgess,

  What frightens me about taking the leap into Mikrotik is it appears
 the web interface is of no use in the advanced configuration and it
 sounds like one must get heavily into the CLI and scripting. I don't
 see an online repository of scripts for programming or even a highly
 detailed help/wiki online. I'm guessing too many people are making
 too
 much money doing their Mikrotik training to give it away for free. So
 because of the apparently steep learning curve I'm leery to make the
 leap. The more easily configurable (and less powerful) solutions such
 as Ubiquiti look more appealing to me at this point.

  Would you disagree with my perspective? Is making the leap not that
 bad?

 Greg
 On Feb 17, 2009, at 10:21 AM, Dennis Burgess wrote:


 Ya, don't know why ya don't want a MT solution.  Been there done
 that
 and it works :)

 * ---
 Dennis Burgess, CCNA, A+, Mikrotik Certified Trainer
 WISPA Board Member - wispa.org http://www.wispa.org/
 Link Technologies, Inc -- Mikrotik  WISP Support Services
 WISPA Vendor Member*
 *Office*: 314-735-0270 *Website*: http://www.linktechs.net
 http://www.linktechs.net/
 */LIVE On-Line Mikrotik Training/*
 http://www.linktechs.net/onlinetraining.asp

 The information transmitted (including attachments) is covered by
 the Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. 2510-2521, is
 intended only for the person(s) or entity/entities to which
 it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged
 material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of,
 or taking of any action in reliance upon, this information by
 persons or entities other than the intended recipient(s) is
 prohibited, If you
 received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the
 material from any computer.





 e...@wisp-router.com wrote:

 MT and a consultant ;)

 /me laughing while running for cover

 Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile

 -Original Message-
 From: Scott Vander Dussen sc...@velociter.net

 Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2009 21:13:03
 To: WISPA General Listwireless@wispa.org
 Subject: [WISPA] Mesh just for kicks


 Looking to deploy a small mesh network downtown in a small city
 just for kicks.  Low budget ($4k for ~10 nodes) - just want to get
 my feet wet and have some fun.

 I'd charge for the service if it was easy enough to do and it
 worked good enough to justify a cost, otherwise free.  Was hoping
 there is was a turn-key solution (PLEASE don't suggest Mikrotik - I
 could ask for a recommendation on how to remove chest hair and
 someone will mention MT).  Anyhow, turn-key like Meraki advertises
 would be cool.  How about

Re: [WISPA] Mesh just for kicks

[Scott Vander Dussen]

Jerry-
Thanks - is the Engenius product no longer supported?  I couldn't find anything 
on Engenius website about it and seems like only a few distributors have this 
product in stock.  Deliberant is in the same enclosure as OSBridge uses for 
their full duplex backhauls.

It'd be cool to combo a bullet5 and pico hp2 with a crossover harness that 
injects power where the bullet5 + omni would BH the devices and the pico would 
provide service to end users.  Seems like you'd get a ghetto mesh for ~130/node.

Thanks,
`S

-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf 
Of Jerry Richardson
Sent: Monday, February 16, 2009 10:08 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Mesh just for kicks

I just went through this exercise - spent hours looking at various options.

Deliberant and Engenius are the two options I arrived at. These seemed like the 
best price/performance to me and are refined enough to be easily supported. 
It's not true Mesh but rather WDS distribution via radio 1 and client access on 
radio 2
- Engenius EOC-7550 Dual radio AP (4 SSID/VLAN) - 199 - cheesy omni's included 
I think
- Deliberant DUO Dual radio AP (16 SSID/VLAN) - 349 - no antennas

If you can get away with a single radio WDS setup, then the costs drop through 
the floor - Sprinkle them around like chicklets:
- Ubiquity Pico, Nano, etc - 49 and up
- Engenius - copy cats - 49 and up
- Linksys WRT54GL with DD-WRT
- etc

If it really needs to be mesh then the two lowest cost options I found
are:
- MikroTik with two radios - 349/kit assembled - no antennas
- Ligowave DUO and Quad - 1k and up - no antennas



__
Jerry Richardson
airCloud Communications

-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf 
Of Scott Vander Dussen
Sent: Monday, February 16, 2009 9:13 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: [WISPA] Mesh just for kicks

Looking to deploy a small mesh network downtown in a small city just for kicks. 
 Low budget ($4k for ~10 nodes) - just want to get my feet wet and have some 
fun.

I'd charge for the service if it was easy enough to do and it worked good 
enough to justify a cost, otherwise free.  Was hoping there is was a turn-key 
solution (PLEASE don't suggest Mikrotik - I could ask for a recommendation on 
how to remove chest hair and someone will mention MT).
Anyhow, turn-key like Meraki advertises would be cool.  How about the Pico2HP - 
is there a firmware that works on those that could mesh?  Very new to mesh - 
thanks in advance.

`S

PS- Please don't hijack the thread defending how great MT is and how it can 
save the world etc.. not bashing, just want plug+play which != MT.
(:




WISPA Wants You! Join today!
http://signup.wispa.org/



WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/



WISPA Wants You! Join today!
http://signup.wispa.org/

 
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/

Re: [WISPA] Mesh just for kicks

[os10rules]

Mr. Bledsoe,

I've heard it said that WDS isn't the best option for mesh because  
under WDS each AP is going to repeat every packet regardless of the  
physical location and whether or not the data needs to pass that AP in  
order to get from the gateway AP to the AP the client for whom the  
data is for is associated with. It sounds like WDS works because of a  
shotgun approach, and routing be it STP or what ever just prevents  
loops. The folks that say this claim that for the best mesh  
performance, for true mesh one must use the adhoc mode so that only  
the AP nodes in the route of the data flow transmit that data. The  
folks that say this claim that WDS is not mesh, at least in their book.

Would you concur?

Greg

On Feb 17, 2009, at 11:22 AM, Harold Bledsoe wrote:

 Well there is also the mesh part too.  Is this what you guys are  
 talking
 about when you say MT mesh:  http://wiki.mikrotik.com/wiki/Mesh_wds

 If so, I would disagree that this is a good mesh implementation.
 There are many, many more factors to consider when building an
 infrastructure mesh.  The LigoMesh products take into account signal
 strength, hops from GW, node load, datarate, etc. to calculate the  
 best
 path.  Also, there are dedicated radios for uplink/downlink/service  
 set
 to give high performance.

 On the other hand, if you don't need a carrier-grade infrastructure
 mesh, Wiligear products based on the WBD-500 do support Open-Mesh and
 should be available in the very near future on Streakwave's website  
 with
 the option to have them preloaded with Open-mesh (board, indoor, and
 outdoor selections).

 I guess what I'm saying is that not all products are created equal and
 there is certainly a place for each one.  Just be sure you know what  
 you
 are getting!

 -Hal


 -Original Message-
 From: os10ru...@gmail.com
 Reply-To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
 To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] Mesh just for kicks
 Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2009 10:38:04 -0430

 Mr. Burgess,

   What frightens me about taking the leap into Mikrotik is it appears
 the web interface is of no use in the advanced configuration and it
 sounds like one must get heavily into the CLI and scripting. I don't
 see an online repository of scripts for programming or even a highly
 detailed help/wiki online. I'm guessing too many people are making too
 much money doing their Mikrotik training to give it away for free. So
 because of the apparently steep learning curve I'm leery to make the
 leap. The more easily configurable (and less powerful) solutions such
 as Ubiquiti look more appealing to me at this point.

   Would you disagree with my perspective? Is making the leap not that
 bad?

 Greg
 On Feb 17, 2009, at 10:21 AM, Dennis Burgess wrote:

 Ya, don't know why ya don't want a MT solution.  Been there done that
 and it works :)

 * ---
 Dennis Burgess, CCNA, A+, Mikrotik Certified Trainer
 WISPA Board Member - wispa.org http://www.wispa.org/
 Link Technologies, Inc -- Mikrotik  WISP Support Services
 WISPA Vendor Member*
 *Office*: 314-735-0270 *Website*: http://www.linktechs.net
 http://www.linktechs.net/
 */LIVE On-Line Mikrotik Training/*
 http://www.linktechs.net/onlinetraining.asp

 The information transmitted (including attachments) is covered by
 the Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. 2510-2521, is
 intended only for the person(s) or entity/entities to which
 it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged
 material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of,
 or taking of any action in reliance upon, this information by
 persons or entities other than the intended recipient(s) is
 prohibited, If you
 received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the
 material from any computer.





 e...@wisp-router.com wrote:
 MT and a consultant ;)

 /me laughing while running for cover

 Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile

 -Original Message-
 From: Scott Vander Dussen sc...@velociter.net

 Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2009 21:13:03
 To: WISPA General Listwireless@wispa.org
 Subject: [WISPA] Mesh just for kicks


 Looking to deploy a small mesh network downtown in a small city
 just for kicks.  Low budget ($4k for ~10 nodes) - just want to get
 my feet wet and have some fun.

 I'd charge for the service if it was easy enough to do and it
 worked good enough to justify a cost, otherwise free.  Was hoping
 there is was a turn-key solution (PLEASE don't suggest Mikrotik - I
 could ask for a recommendation on how to remove chest hair and
 someone will mention MT).  Anyhow, turn-key like Meraki advertises
 would be cool.  How about the Pico2HP - is there a firmware that
 works on those that could mesh?  Very new to mesh - thanks in
 advance.

 `S

 PS- Please don't hijack the thread defending how great MT is and
 how it can save the world etc.. not bashing, just want plug

Re: [WISPA] Mesh just for kicks

[Jack Unger]

I think you are making the point that "mesh" is a very broad term; it's
like "happiness" - there are many flavors...

Harold Bledsoe wrote:

  Well there is also the mesh part too.  Is this what you guys are talking
about when you say MT mesh:  http://wiki.mikrotik.com/wiki/Mesh_wds

If so, I would disagree that this is a "good" mesh implementation.
There are many, many more factors to consider when building an
infrastructure mesh.  The LigoMesh products take into account signal
strength, hops from GW, node load, datarate, etc. to calculate the best
path.  Also, there are dedicated radios for uplink/downlink/service set
to give high performance.

On the other hand, if you don't need a carrier-grade infrastructure
mesh, Wiligear products based on the WBD-500 do support Open-Mesh and
should be available in the very near future on Streakwave's website with
the option to have them preloaded with Open-mesh (board, indoor, and
outdoor selections).

I guess what I'm saying is that not all products are created equal and
there is certainly a place for each one.  Just be sure you know what you
are getting!

-Hal


-Original Message-
From: os10ru...@gmail.com
Reply-To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Mesh just for kicks
Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2009 10:38:04 -0430

Mr. Burgess,

	What frightens me about taking the leap into Mikrotik is it appears  
the web interface is of no use in the advanced configuration and it  
sounds like one must get heavily into the CLI and scripting. I don't  
see an online repository of scripts for programming or even a highly  
detailed help/wiki online. I'm guessing too many people are making too  
much money doing their Mikrotik training to give it away for free. So  
because of the apparently steep learning curve I'm leery to make the  
leap. The more easily configurable (and less powerful) solutions such  
as Ubiquiti look more appealing to me at this point.

	Would you disagree with my perspective? Is making the leap not that  
bad?

Greg
On Feb 17, 2009, at 10:21 AM, Dennis Burgess wrote:

  
  
Ya, don't know why ya don't want a MT solution.  Been there done that
and it works :)

* ---
Dennis Burgess, CCNA, A+, Mikrotik Certified Trainer
WISPA Board Member - wispa.org http://www.wispa.org/
Link Technologies, Inc -- Mikrotik  WISP Support Services
WISPA Vendor Member*
*Office*: 314-735-0270 *Website*: http://www.linktechs.net
http://www.linktechs.net/
*/LIVE On-Line Mikrotik Training/*
http://www.linktechs.net/onlinetraining.asp

The information transmitted (including attachments) is covered by  
the Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. 2510-2521, is  
intended only for the person(s) or entity/entities to which
it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged  
material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of,  
or taking of any action in reliance upon, this information by  
persons or entities other than the intended recipient(s) is  
prohibited, If you
received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the  
material from any computer.





e...@wisp-router.com wrote:


  MT and a consultant ;)

/me laughing while running for cover

Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile

-Original Message-
From: Scott Vander Dussen sc...@velociter.net

Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2009 21:13:03
To: WISPA General Listwireless@wispa.org
Subject: [WISPA] Mesh just for kicks


Looking to deploy a small mesh network downtown in a small city  
just for kicks.  Low budget ($4k for ~10 nodes) - just want to get  
my feet wet and have some fun.

I'd charge for the service if it was easy enough to do and it  
worked good enough to justify a cost, otherwise free.  Was hoping  
there is was a turn-key solution (PLEASE don't suggest Mikrotik - I  
could ask for a recommendation on how to remove chest hair and  
someone will mention MT).  Anyhow, turn-key like Meraki advertises  
would be cool.  How about the Pico2HP - is there a firmware that  
works on those that could mesh?  Very new to mesh - thanks in  
advance.

`S

PS- Please don't hijack the thread defending how great MT is and  
how it can save the world etc.. not bashing, just want plug+play  
which != MT.  (:



WISPA Wants You! Join today!
http://signup.wispa.org/


WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/



WISPA Wants You! Join today!
http://signup.wispa.org/


WISPA Wireless List:

Re: [WISPA] Mesh just for kicks

[eje]

From experience this is not how the bridging used in MikroTik and its WDS 
setup is doing. It only forward the traffic where it needs to go. 

/Eje
Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile

-Original Message-
From: os10ru...@gmail.com

Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2009 11:40:46 
To: WISPA General Listwireless@wispa.org
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Mesh just for kicks


Mr. Bledsoe,

I've heard it said that WDS isn't the best option for mesh because  
under WDS each AP is going to repeat every packet regardless of the  
physical location and whether or not the data needs to pass that AP in  
order to get from the gateway AP to the AP the client for whom the  
data is for is associated with. It sounds like WDS works because of a  
shotgun approach, and routing be it STP or what ever just prevents  
loops. The folks that say this claim that for the best mesh  
performance, for true mesh one must use the adhoc mode so that only  
the AP nodes in the route of the data flow transmit that data. The  
folks that say this claim that WDS is not mesh, at least in their book.

Would you concur?

Greg

On Feb 17, 2009, at 11:22 AM, Harold Bledsoe wrote:

 Well there is also the mesh part too.  Is this what you guys are  
 talking
 about when you say MT mesh:  http://wiki.mikrotik.com/wiki/Mesh_wds

 If so, I would disagree that this is a good mesh implementation.
 There are many, many more factors to consider when building an
 infrastructure mesh.  The LigoMesh products take into account signal
 strength, hops from GW, node load, datarate, etc. to calculate the  
 best
 path.  Also, there are dedicated radios for uplink/downlink/service  
 set
 to give high performance.

 On the other hand, if you don't need a carrier-grade infrastructure
 mesh, Wiligear products based on the WBD-500 do support Open-Mesh and
 should be available in the very near future on Streakwave's website  
 with
 the option to have them preloaded with Open-mesh (board, indoor, and
 outdoor selections).

 I guess what I'm saying is that not all products are created equal and
 there is certainly a place for each one.  Just be sure you know what  
 you
 are getting!

 -Hal


 -Original Message-
 From: os10ru...@gmail.com
 Reply-To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
 To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] Mesh just for kicks
 Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2009 10:38:04 -0430

 Mr. Burgess,

   What frightens me about taking the leap into Mikrotik is it appears
 the web interface is of no use in the advanced configuration and it
 sounds like one must get heavily into the CLI and scripting. I don't
 see an online repository of scripts for programming or even a highly
 detailed help/wiki online. I'm guessing too many people are making too
 much money doing their Mikrotik training to give it away for free. So
 because of the apparently steep learning curve I'm leery to make the
 leap. The more easily configurable (and less powerful) solutions such
 as Ubiquiti look more appealing to me at this point.

   Would you disagree with my perspective? Is making the leap not that
 bad?

 Greg
 On Feb 17, 2009, at 10:21 AM, Dennis Burgess wrote:

 Ya, don't know why ya don't want a MT solution.  Been there done that
 and it works :)

 * ---
 Dennis Burgess, CCNA, A+, Mikrotik Certified Trainer
 WISPA Board Member - wispa.org http://www.wispa.org/
 Link Technologies, Inc -- Mikrotik  WISP Support Services
 WISPA Vendor Member*
 *Office*: 314-735-0270 *Website*: http://www.linktechs.net
 http://www.linktechs.net/
 */LIVE On-Line Mikrotik Training/*
 http://www.linktechs.net/onlinetraining.asp

 The information transmitted (including attachments) is covered by
 the Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. 2510-2521, is
 intended only for the person(s) or entity/entities to which
 it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged
 material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of,
 or taking of any action in reliance upon, this information by
 persons or entities other than the intended recipient(s) is
 prohibited, If you
 received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the
 material from any computer.





 e...@wisp-router.com wrote:
 MT and a consultant ;)

 /me laughing while running for cover

 Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile

 -Original Message-
 From: Scott Vander Dussen sc...@velociter.net

 Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2009 21:13:03
 To: WISPA General Listwireless@wispa.org
 Subject: [WISPA] Mesh just for kicks


 Looking to deploy a small mesh network downtown in a small city
 just for kicks.  Low budget ($4k for ~10 nodes) - just want to get
 my feet wet and have some fun.

 I'd charge for the service if it was easy enough to do and it
 worked good enough to justify a cost, otherwise free.  Was hoping
 there is was a turn-key solution (PLEASE don't suggest Mikrotik - I
 could ask for a recommendation on how to remove

Re: [WISPA] Mesh just for kicks

[eje]

MikroTik has its MME implementation that is what should be used instead of 
using WDS for a mesh setup. MME is as true mesh as it gets. 

/Eje
Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile

-Original Message-
From: Harold Bledsoe hbled...@deliberant.net

Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2009 10:52:39 
To: WISPA General Listwireless@wispa.org
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Mesh just for kicks


Well there is also the mesh part too.  Is this what you guys are talking
about when you say MT mesh:  http://wiki.mikrotik.com/wiki/Mesh_wds

If so, I would disagree that this is a good mesh implementation.
There are many, many more factors to consider when building an
infrastructure mesh.  The LigoMesh products take into account signal
strength, hops from GW, node load, datarate, etc. to calculate the best
path.  Also, there are dedicated radios for uplink/downlink/service set
to give high performance.

On the other hand, if you don't need a carrier-grade infrastructure
mesh, Wiligear products based on the WBD-500 do support Open-Mesh and
should be available in the very near future on Streakwave's website with
the option to have them preloaded with Open-mesh (board, indoor, and
outdoor selections).

I guess what I'm saying is that not all products are created equal and
there is certainly a place for each one.  Just be sure you know what you
are getting!

-Hal


-Original Message-
From: os10ru...@gmail.com
Reply-To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Mesh just for kicks
Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2009 10:38:04 -0430

Mr. Burgess,

What frightens me about taking the leap into Mikrotik is it appears  
the web interface is of no use in the advanced configuration and it  
sounds like one must get heavily into the CLI and scripting. I don't  
see an online repository of scripts for programming or even a highly  
detailed help/wiki online. I'm guessing too many people are making too  
much money doing their Mikrotik training to give it away for free. So  
because of the apparently steep learning curve I'm leery to make the  
leap. The more easily configurable (and less powerful) solutions such  
as Ubiquiti look more appealing to me at this point.

Would you disagree with my perspective? Is making the leap not that  
bad?

Greg
On Feb 17, 2009, at 10:21 AM, Dennis Burgess wrote:

 Ya, don't know why ya don't want a MT solution.  Been there done that
 and it works :)

 * ---
 Dennis Burgess, CCNA, A+, Mikrotik Certified Trainer
 WISPA Board Member - wispa.org http://www.wispa.org/
 Link Technologies, Inc -- Mikrotik  WISP Support Services
 WISPA Vendor Member*
 *Office*: 314-735-0270 *Website*: http://www.linktechs.net
 http://www.linktechs.net/
 */LIVE On-Line Mikrotik Training/*
 http://www.linktechs.net/onlinetraining.asp

 The information transmitted (including attachments) is covered by  
 the Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. 2510-2521, is  
 intended only for the person(s) or entity/entities to which
 it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged  
 material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of,  
 or taking of any action in reliance upon, this information by  
 persons or entities other than the intended recipient(s) is  
 prohibited, If you
 received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the  
 material from any computer.





 e...@wisp-router.com wrote:
 MT and a consultant ;)

 /me laughing while running for cover

 Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile

 -Original Message-
 From: Scott Vander Dussen sc...@velociter.net

 Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2009 21:13:03
 To: WISPA General Listwireless@wispa.org
 Subject: [WISPA] Mesh just for kicks


 Looking to deploy a small mesh network downtown in a small city  
 just for kicks.  Low budget ($4k for ~10 nodes) - just want to get  
 my feet wet and have some fun.

 I'd charge for the service if it was easy enough to do and it  
 worked good enough to justify a cost, otherwise free.  Was hoping  
 there is was a turn-key solution (PLEASE don't suggest Mikrotik - I  
 could ask for a recommendation on how to remove chest hair and  
 someone will mention MT).  Anyhow, turn-key like Meraki advertises  
 would be cool.  How about the Pico2HP - is there a firmware that  
 works on those that could mesh?  Very new to mesh - thanks in  
 advance.

 `S

 PS- Please don't hijack the thread defending how great MT is and  
 how it can save the world etc.. not bashing, just want plug+play  
 which != MT.  (:


 
 WISPA Wants You! Join today!
 http://signup.wispa.org/
 

 WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

 Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
 http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

 Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless

Re: [WISPA] Mesh just for kicks

[Harold Bledsoe]

I'd say that the issue is not really related to WDS but the fact that
WDS is just a way to connect APs peer to peer.  There needs to be some
sort of intelligence on top of that that chooses channels, paths, etc.
Something more than STP or any other algorithm that doesn't understand
wireless.  :)  Then even if the algorithm understands wireless, if you
are using a single radio solution, there is considerable throughput lost
per hop due to this.  So ideally you would dedicate wireless interfaces
to each task of uplink, downlink, and serving customer (except the
gateway that has a wired uplink).

That's my take on it.

-Hal


-Original Message-
From: os10ru...@gmail.com
Reply-To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Mesh just for kicks
Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2009 11:40:46 -0430

Mr. Bledsoe,

I've heard it said that WDS isn't the best option for mesh because  
under WDS each AP is going to repeat every packet regardless of the  
physical location and whether or not the data needs to pass that AP in  
order to get from the gateway AP to the AP the client for whom the  
data is for is associated with. It sounds like WDS works because of a  
shotgun approach, and routing be it STP or what ever just prevents  
loops. The folks that say this claim that for the best mesh  
performance, for true mesh one must use the adhoc mode so that only  
the AP nodes in the route of the data flow transmit that data. The  
folks that say this claim that WDS is not mesh, at least in their book.

Would you concur?

Greg

On Feb 17, 2009, at 11:22 AM, Harold Bledsoe wrote:

 Well there is also the mesh part too.  Is this what you guys are  
 talking
 about when you say MT mesh:  http://wiki.mikrotik.com/wiki/Mesh_wds

 If so, I would disagree that this is a good mesh implementation.
 There are many, many more factors to consider when building an
 infrastructure mesh.  The LigoMesh products take into account signal
 strength, hops from GW, node load, datarate, etc. to calculate the  
 best
 path.  Also, there are dedicated radios for uplink/downlink/service  
 set
 to give high performance.

 On the other hand, if you don't need a carrier-grade infrastructure
 mesh, Wiligear products based on the WBD-500 do support Open-Mesh and
 should be available in the very near future on Streakwave's website  
 with
 the option to have them preloaded with Open-mesh (board, indoor, and
 outdoor selections).

 I guess what I'm saying is that not all products are created equal and
 there is certainly a place for each one.  Just be sure you know what  
 you
 are getting!

 -Hal


 -Original Message-
 From: os10ru...@gmail.com
 Reply-To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
 To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] Mesh just for kicks
 Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2009 10:38:04 -0430

 Mr. Burgess,

   What frightens me about taking the leap into Mikrotik is it appears
 the web interface is of no use in the advanced configuration and it
 sounds like one must get heavily into the CLI and scripting. I don't
 see an online repository of scripts for programming or even a highly
 detailed help/wiki online. I'm guessing too many people are making too
 much money doing their Mikrotik training to give it away for free. So
 because of the apparently steep learning curve I'm leery to make the
 leap. The more easily configurable (and less powerful) solutions such
 as Ubiquiti look more appealing to me at this point.

   Would you disagree with my perspective? Is making the leap not that
 bad?

 Greg
 On Feb 17, 2009, at 10:21 AM, Dennis Burgess wrote:

 Ya, don't know why ya don't want a MT solution.  Been there done that
 and it works :)

 * ---
 Dennis Burgess, CCNA, A+, Mikrotik Certified Trainer
 WISPA Board Member - wispa.org http://www.wispa.org/
 Link Technologies, Inc -- Mikrotik  WISP Support Services
 WISPA Vendor Member*
 *Office*: 314-735-0270 *Website*: http://www.linktechs.net
 http://www.linktechs.net/
 */LIVE On-Line Mikrotik Training/*
 http://www.linktechs.net/onlinetraining.asp

 The information transmitted (including attachments) is covered by
 the Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. 2510-2521, is
 intended only for the person(s) or entity/entities to which
 it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged
 material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of,
 or taking of any action in reliance upon, this information by
 persons or entities other than the intended recipient(s) is
 prohibited, If you
 received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the
 material from any computer.





 e...@wisp-router.com wrote:
 MT and a consultant ;)

 /me laughing while running for cover

 Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile

 -Original Message-
 From: Scott Vander Dussen sc...@velociter.net

 Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2009 21:13:03

Re: [WISPA] Mesh just for kicks

[Harold Bledsoe]

Or ice cream.  :)


-Original Message-
From: Jack Unger jun...@ask-wi.com
Reply-To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Mesh just for kicks
Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2009 08:27:59 -0800

I think you are making the point that mesh is a very broad term; it's
like happiness - there are many flavors...

Harold Bledsoe wrote: 

 Well there is also the mesh part too.  Is this what you guys are talking
 about when you say MT mesh:  http://wiki.mikrotik.com/wiki/Mesh_wds
 
 If so, I would disagree that this is a good mesh implementation.
 There are many, many more factors to consider when building an
 infrastructure mesh.  The LigoMesh products take into account signal
 strength, hops from GW, node load, datarate, etc. to calculate the best
 path.  Also, there are dedicated radios for uplink/downlink/service set
 to give high performance.
 
 On the other hand, if you don't need a carrier-grade infrastructure
 mesh, Wiligear products based on the WBD-500 do support Open-Mesh and
 should be available in the very near future on Streakwave's website with
 the option to have them preloaded with Open-mesh (board, indoor, and
 outdoor selections).
 
 I guess what I'm saying is that not all products are created equal and
 there is certainly a place for each one.  Just be sure you know what you
 are getting!
 
 -Hal
 
 
 -Original Message-
 From: os10ru...@gmail.com
 Reply-To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
 To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] Mesh just for kicks
 Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2009 10:38:04 -0430
 
 Mr. Burgess,
 
   What frightens me about taking the leap into Mikrotik is it appears  
 the web interface is of no use in the advanced configuration and it  
 sounds like one must get heavily into the CLI and scripting. I don't  
 see an online repository of scripts for programming or even a highly  
 detailed help/wiki online. I'm guessing too many people are making too  
 much money doing their Mikrotik training to give it away for free. So  
 because of the apparently steep learning curve I'm leery to make the  
 leap. The more easily configurable (and less powerful) solutions such  
 as Ubiquiti look more appealing to me at this point.
 
   Would you disagree with my perspective? Is making the leap not that  
 bad?
 
 Greg
 On Feb 17, 2009, at 10:21 AM, Dennis Burgess wrote:
 
   
 
  Ya, don't know why ya don't want a MT solution.  Been there done that
  and it works :)
  
  * ---
  Dennis Burgess, CCNA, A+, Mikrotik Certified Trainer
  WISPA Board Member - wispa.org http://www.wispa.org/
  Link Technologies, Inc -- Mikrotik  WISP Support Services
  WISPA Vendor Member*
  *Office*: 314-735-0270 *Website*: http://www.linktechs.net
  http://www.linktechs.net/
  */LIVE On-Line Mikrotik Training/*
  http://www.linktechs.net/onlinetraining.asp
  
  The information transmitted (including attachments) is covered by  
  the Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. 2510-2521, is  
  intended only for the person(s) or entity/entities to which
  it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged  
  material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of,  
  or taking of any action in reliance upon, this information by  
  persons or entities other than the intended recipient(s) is  
  prohibited, If you
  received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the  
  material from any computer.
  
  
  
  
  
  e...@wisp-router.com wrote:
  
  
   MT and a consultant ;)
   
   /me laughing while running for cover
   
   Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile
   
   -Original Message-
   From: Scott Vander Dussen sc...@velociter.net
   
   Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2009 21:13:03
   To: WISPA General Listwireless@wispa.org
   Subject: [WISPA] Mesh just for kicks
   
   
   Looking to deploy a small mesh network downtown in a small city  
   just for kicks.  Low budget ($4k for ~10 nodes) - just want to get  
   my feet wet and have some fun.
   
   I'd charge for the service if it was easy enough to do and it  
   worked good enough to justify a cost, otherwise free.  Was hoping  
   there is was a turn-key solution (PLEASE don't suggest Mikrotik - I  
   could ask for a recommendation on how to remove chest hair and  
   someone will mention MT).  Anyhow, turn-key like Meraki advertises  
   would be cool.  How about the Pico2HP - is there a firmware that  
   works on those that could mesh?  Very new to mesh - thanks in  
   advance.
   
   `S
   
   PS- Please don't hijack the thread defending how great MT is and  
   how it can save the world etc.. not bashing, just want plug+play  
   which != MT.  (:
   
   
   
   WISPA Wants You! Join today!
   http://signup.wispa.org

Re: [WISPA] Mesh just for kicks

[Dennis Burgess]

Agreed Eje.  Works great. 

There are lots of options etc.  

Also, as you have hear, mesh is just another 4-letter word in my 
book.  You can have a routed mesh, or you can use some of the other 
definitions including MME, etc.  What you really need to find out is how 
and what you are going to deliver.  Delivering 200k vs megs will make 
you change the hardware and requirements that you have. It may also 
change the design. 

* ---
Dennis Burgess, CCNA, A+, Mikrotik Certified Trainer
WISPA Board Member - wispa.org http://www.wispa.org/
Link Technologies, Inc -- Mikrotik  WISP Support Services
WISPA Vendor Member*
*Office*: 314-735-0270 *Website*: http://www.linktechs.net 
http://www.linktechs.net/
*/LIVE On-Line Mikrotik Training/* 
http://www.linktechs.net/onlinetraining.asp

The information transmitted (including attachments) is covered by the 
Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. 2510-2521, is intended only 
for the person(s) or entity/entities to which 
it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any 
review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action 
in reliance upon, this information by persons or entities other than the 
intended recipient(s) is prohibited, If you 
received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from 
any computer.

 



e...@wisp-router.com wrote:
 MikroTik has its MME implementation that is what should be used instead of 
 using WDS for a mesh setup. MME is as true mesh as it gets. 

 /Eje
 Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile

 -Original Message-
 From: Harold Bledsoe hbled...@deliberant.net

 Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2009 10:52:39 
 To: WISPA General Listwireless@wispa.org
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] Mesh just for kicks


 Well there is also the mesh part too.  Is this what you guys are talking
 about when you say MT mesh:  http://wiki.mikrotik.com/wiki/Mesh_wds

 If so, I would disagree that this is a good mesh implementation.
 There are many, many more factors to consider when building an
 infrastructure mesh.  The LigoMesh products take into account signal
 strength, hops from GW, node load, datarate, etc. to calculate the best
 path.  Also, there are dedicated radios for uplink/downlink/service set
 to give high performance.

 On the other hand, if you don't need a carrier-grade infrastructure
 mesh, Wiligear products based on the WBD-500 do support Open-Mesh and
 should be available in the very near future on Streakwave's website with
 the option to have them preloaded with Open-mesh (board, indoor, and
 outdoor selections).

 I guess what I'm saying is that not all products are created equal and
 there is certainly a place for each one.  Just be sure you know what you
 are getting!

 -Hal


 -Original Message-
 From: os10ru...@gmail.com
 Reply-To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
 To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] Mesh just for kicks
 Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2009 10:38:04 -0430

 Mr. Burgess,

   What frightens me about taking the leap into Mikrotik is it appears  
 the web interface is of no use in the advanced configuration and it  
 sounds like one must get heavily into the CLI and scripting. I don't  
 see an online repository of scripts for programming or even a highly  
 detailed help/wiki online. I'm guessing too many people are making too  
 much money doing their Mikrotik training to give it away for free. So  
 because of the apparently steep learning curve I'm leery to make the  
 leap. The more easily configurable (and less powerful) solutions such  
 as Ubiquiti look more appealing to me at this point.

   Would you disagree with my perspective? Is making the leap not that  
 bad?

 Greg
 On Feb 17, 2009, at 10:21 AM, Dennis Burgess wrote:

   
 Ya, don't know why ya don't want a MT solution.  Been there done that
 and it works :)

 * ---
 Dennis Burgess, CCNA, A+, Mikrotik Certified Trainer
 WISPA Board Member - wispa.org http://www.wispa.org/
 Link Technologies, Inc -- Mikrotik  WISP Support Services
 WISPA Vendor Member*
 *Office*: 314-735-0270 *Website*: http://www.linktechs.net
 http://www.linktechs.net/
 */LIVE On-Line Mikrotik Training/*
 http://www.linktechs.net/onlinetraining.asp

 The information transmitted (including attachments) is covered by  
 the Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. 2510-2521, is  
 intended only for the person(s) or entity/entities to which
 it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged  
 material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of,  
 or taking of any action in reliance upon, this information by  
 persons or entities other than the intended recipient(s) is  
 prohibited, If you
 received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the  
 material from any computer.





 e...@wisp-router.com wrote:
 
 MT

Re: [WISPA] Mesh just for kicks

[Dennis Burgess]

hmmm. ice cream

* ---
Dennis Burgess, CCNA, A+, Mikrotik Certified Trainer
WISPA Board Member - wispa.org http://www.wispa.org/
Link Technologies, Inc -- Mikrotik  WISP Support Services
WISPA Vendor Member*
*Office*: 314-735-0270 *Website*: http://www.linktechs.net 
http://www.linktechs.net/
*/LIVE On-Line Mikrotik Training/* 
http://www.linktechs.net/onlinetraining.asp

The information transmitted (including attachments) is covered by the 
Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. 2510-2521, is intended only 
for the person(s) or entity/entities to which 
it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any 
review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action 
in reliance upon, this information by persons or entities other than the 
intended recipient(s) is prohibited, If you 
received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from 
any computer.

 



Harold Bledsoe wrote:
 Or ice cream.  :)


 -Original Message-
 From: Jack Unger jun...@ask-wi.com
 Reply-To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
 To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] Mesh just for kicks
 Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2009 08:27:59 -0800

 I think you are making the point that mesh is a very broad term; it's
 like happiness - there are many flavors...

 Harold Bledsoe wrote: 

   
 Well there is also the mesh part too.  Is this what you guys are talking
 about when you say MT mesh:  http://wiki.mikrotik.com/wiki/Mesh_wds

 If so, I would disagree that this is a good mesh implementation.
 There are many, many more factors to consider when building an
 infrastructure mesh.  The LigoMesh products take into account signal
 strength, hops from GW, node load, datarate, etc. to calculate the best
 path.  Also, there are dedicated radios for uplink/downlink/service set
 to give high performance.

 On the other hand, if you don't need a carrier-grade infrastructure
 mesh, Wiligear products based on the WBD-500 do support Open-Mesh and
 should be available in the very near future on Streakwave's website with
 the option to have them preloaded with Open-mesh (board, indoor, and
 outdoor selections).

 I guess what I'm saying is that not all products are created equal and
 there is certainly a place for each one.  Just be sure you know what you
 are getting!

 -Hal


 -Original Message-
 From: os10ru...@gmail.com
 Reply-To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
 To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] Mesh just for kicks
 Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2009 10:38:04 -0430

 Mr. Burgess,

  What frightens me about taking the leap into Mikrotik is it appears  
 the web interface is of no use in the advanced configuration and it  
 sounds like one must get heavily into the CLI and scripting. I don't  
 see an online repository of scripts for programming or even a highly  
 detailed help/wiki online. I'm guessing too many people are making too  
 much money doing their Mikrotik training to give it away for free. So  
 because of the apparently steep learning curve I'm leery to make the  
 leap. The more easily configurable (and less powerful) solutions such  
 as Ubiquiti look more appealing to me at this point.

  Would you disagree with my perspective? Is making the leap not that  
 bad?

 Greg
 On Feb 17, 2009, at 10:21 AM, Dennis Burgess wrote:

   

 
 Ya, don't know why ya don't want a MT solution.  Been there done that
 and it works :)

 * ---
 Dennis Burgess, CCNA, A+, Mikrotik Certified Trainer
 WISPA Board Member - wispa.org http://www.wispa.org/
 Link Technologies, Inc -- Mikrotik  WISP Support Services
 WISPA Vendor Member*
 *Office*: 314-735-0270 *Website*: http://www.linktechs.net
 http://www.linktechs.net/
 */LIVE On-Line Mikrotik Training/*
 http://www.linktechs.net/onlinetraining.asp

 The information transmitted (including attachments) is covered by  
 the Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. 2510-2521, is  
 intended only for the person(s) or entity/entities to which
 it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged  
 material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of,  
 or taking of any action in reliance upon, this information by  
 persons or entities other than the intended recipient(s) is  
 prohibited, If you
 received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the  
 material from any computer.





 e...@wisp-router.com wrote:
 

   
 MT and a consultant ;)

 /me laughing while running for cover

 Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile

 -Original Message-
 From: Scott Vander Dussen sc...@velociter.net

 Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2009 21:13:03
 To: WISPA General Listwireless@wispa.org
 Subject: [WISPA] Mesh just for kicks


 Looking to deploy a small mesh network downtown in a small city  
 just for kicks.  Low budget ($4k

Re: [WISPA] Mesh just for kicks

[Scott Vander Dussen]

Does MT make ice cream?  If they did, it would be the BEST!

Haha,
`S

-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf 
Of Dennis Burgess
Sent: Tuesday, February 17, 2009 9:26 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Mesh just for kicks

hmmm. ice cream

* ---
Dennis Burgess, CCNA, A+, Mikrotik Certified Trainer
WISPA Board Member - wispa.org http://www.wispa.org/
Link Technologies, Inc -- Mikrotik  WISP Support Services
WISPA Vendor Member*
*Office*: 314-735-0270 *Website*: http://www.linktechs.net
http://www.linktechs.net/
*/LIVE On-Line Mikrotik Training/*
http://www.linktechs.net/onlinetraining.asp

The information transmitted (including attachments) is covered by the 
Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. 2510-2521, is intended only 
for the person(s) or entity/entities to which
it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any 
review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action 
in reliance upon, this information by persons or entities other than the 
intended recipient(s) is prohibited, If you
received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from 
any computer.





Harold Bledsoe wrote:
 Or ice cream.  :)


 -Original Message-
 From: Jack Unger jun...@ask-wi.com
 Reply-To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
 To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] Mesh just for kicks
 Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2009 08:27:59 -0800

 I think you are making the point that mesh is a very broad term; it's
 like happiness - there are many flavors...

 Harold Bledsoe wrote:


 Well there is also the mesh part too.  Is this what you guys are talking
 about when you say MT mesh:  http://wiki.mikrotik.com/wiki/Mesh_wds

 If so, I would disagree that this is a good mesh implementation.
 There are many, many more factors to consider when building an
 infrastructure mesh.  The LigoMesh products take into account signal
 strength, hops from GW, node load, datarate, etc. to calculate the best
 path.  Also, there are dedicated radios for uplink/downlink/service set
 to give high performance.

 On the other hand, if you don't need a carrier-grade infrastructure
 mesh, Wiligear products based on the WBD-500 do support Open-Mesh and
 should be available in the very near future on Streakwave's website with
 the option to have them preloaded with Open-mesh (board, indoor, and
 outdoor selections).

 I guess what I'm saying is that not all products are created equal and
 there is certainly a place for each one.  Just be sure you know what you
 are getting!

 -Hal


 -Original Message-
 From: os10ru...@gmail.com
 Reply-To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
 To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] Mesh just for kicks
 Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2009 10:38:04 -0430

 Mr. Burgess,

  What frightens me about taking the leap into Mikrotik is it appears
 the web interface is of no use in the advanced configuration and it
 sounds like one must get heavily into the CLI and scripting. I don't
 see an online repository of scripts for programming or even a highly
 detailed help/wiki online. I'm guessing too many people are making too
 much money doing their Mikrotik training to give it away for free. So
 because of the apparently steep learning curve I'm leery to make the
 leap. The more easily configurable (and less powerful) solutions such
 as Ubiquiti look more appealing to me at this point.

  Would you disagree with my perspective? Is making the leap not that
 bad?

 Greg
 On Feb 17, 2009, at 10:21 AM, Dennis Burgess wrote:




 Ya, don't know why ya don't want a MT solution.  Been there done that
 and it works :)

 * ---
 Dennis Burgess, CCNA, A+, Mikrotik Certified Trainer
 WISPA Board Member - wispa.org http://www.wispa.org/
 Link Technologies, Inc -- Mikrotik  WISP Support Services
 WISPA Vendor Member*
 *Office*: 314-735-0270 *Website*: http://www.linktechs.net
 http://www.linktechs.net/
 */LIVE On-Line Mikrotik Training/*
 http://www.linktechs.net/onlinetraining.asp

 The information transmitted (including attachments) is covered by
 the Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. 2510-2521, is
 intended only for the person(s) or entity/entities to which
 it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged
 material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of,
 or taking of any action in reliance upon, this information by
 persons or entities other than the intended recipient(s) is
 prohibited, If you
 received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the
 material from any computer.





 e...@wisp-router.com wrote:



 MT and a consultant ;)

 /me laughing while running for cover

 Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile

 -Original Message-
 From: Scott Vander

Re: [WISPA] Mesh just for kicks

[John J. Thomas]

You DO NOT have to use a CLI to do firewalling nowadays. Cisco has the SDM for 
routers, and the ASDM for ASA's.

John

-Original Message-
From: e...@wisp-router.com [mailto:e...@wisp-router.com]
Sent: Tuesday, February 17, 2009 07:26 AM
To: 'WISPA General List'
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Mesh just for kicks

Winbox. Then very little need for CLI. There is nothing you can not do through 
winbox that you can not do through CLI. Scripting most people do not use it or 
just use it to execute simple CLI instructions. You have a bunch of script 
samples on wiki.mikrotik.com. 
Like with any advanced networking product there is a little learning curve. 
But reason why most people have problems getting a grip on MikroTik is that 
their network knowledge is limited so they have problem understanding the 
routing concept and understanding how ip works and flows with its source 
ports, destination ports so they have issues creating firewall rules etc. On 
the WISP-Training Mikrotik class (the training material Butch and me created) 
the primary reason it was created was to teach how routing, sub netting and ip 
flows worked and of course from a view point in how to configure this with 
MikroTik. It's a whole lot easier to get running then say a Cisco router where 
everything have to be CLI and firewalling rule creation imo is very cryptic 
and not very straight forward. 

/Eje Gustafsson
CTO
WISP-Router, Inc
Bringing MikroTik to the masses since 2002. 
Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile

-Original Message-
From: os10ru...@gmail.com

Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2009 10:38:04 
To: WISPA General Listwireless@wispa.org
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Mesh just for kicks


Mr. Burgess,

   What frightens me about taking the leap into Mikrotik is it appears  
the web interface is of no use in the advanced configuration and it  
sounds like one must get heavily into the CLI and scripting. I don't  
see an online repository of scripts for programming or even a highly  
detailed help/wiki online. I'm guessing too many people are making too  
much money doing their Mikrotik training to give it away for free. So  
because of the apparently steep learning curve I'm leery to make the  
leap. The more easily configurable (and less powerful) solutions such  
as Ubiquiti look more appealing to me at this point.

   Would you disagree with my perspective? Is making the leap not that  
bad?

Greg
On Feb 17, 2009, at 10:21 AM, Dennis Burgess wrote:

 Ya, don't know why ya don't want a MT solution.  Been there done that
 and it works :)

 * ---
 Dennis Burgess, CCNA, A+, Mikrotik Certified Trainer
 WISPA Board Member - wispa.org http://www.wispa.org/
 Link Technologies, Inc -- Mikrotik  WISP Support Services
 WISPA Vendor Member*
 *Office*: 314-735-0270 *Website*: http://www.linktechs.net
 http://www.linktechs.net/
 */LIVE On-Line Mikrotik Training/*
 http://www.linktechs.net/onlinetraining.asp

 The information transmitted (including attachments) is covered by  
 the Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. 2510-2521, is  
 intended only for the person(s) or entity/entities to which
 it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged  
 material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of,  
 or taking of any action in reliance upon, this information by  
 persons or entities other than the intended recipient(s) is  
 prohibited, If you
 received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the  
 material from any computer.





 e...@wisp-router.com wrote:
 MT and a consultant ;)

 /me laughing while running for cover

 Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile

 -Original Message-
 From: Scott Vander Dussen sc...@velociter.net

 Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2009 21:13:03
 To: WISPA General Listwireless@wispa.org
 Subject: [WISPA] Mesh just for kicks


 Looking to deploy a small mesh network downtown in a small city  
 just for kicks.  Low budget ($4k for ~10 nodes) - just want to get  
 my feet wet and have some fun.

 I'd charge for the service if it was easy enough to do and it  
 worked good enough to justify a cost, otherwise free.  Was hoping  
 there is was a turn-key solution (PLEASE don't suggest Mikrotik - I  
 could ask for a recommendation on how to remove chest hair and  
 someone will mention MT).  Anyhow, turn-key like Meraki advertises  
 would be cool.  How about the Pico2HP - is there a firmware that  
 works on those that could mesh?  Very new to mesh - thanks in  
 advance.

 `S

 PS- Please don't hijack the thread defending how great MT is and  
 how it can save the world etc.. not bashing, just want plug+play  
 which != MT.  (:


 
 WISPA Wants You! Join today!
 http://signup.wispa.org/
 

 WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

 Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
 http

Re: [WISPA] Mesh just for kicks

[eje]

Don't help if don't have the latest IOS firmware I would think. I must say I 
haven't used Cisco for a long time (replaced with ImageStream) and the few 
times I had to help customer that had a cisco that needed some configuration 
changes to deal with the internal routing we help setup with MikroTik it was 
always it seemed an older firmware and they customer know very little more then 
the username and password and ips to get in to the cisco. 
But glad Cisco is coming to the 21st century with decent provisioning tools and 
configuration tools which I been spoiled with Mikrotik every since I first 
started using it almost hmm 7 years ago. 

/Eje
Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile

-Original Message-
From: John J. Thomas jtho...@quarnet.com

Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2009 18:36:31 
To: WISPA General Listwireless@wispa.org
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Mesh just for kicks


You DO NOT have to use a CLI to do firewalling nowadays. Cisco has the SDM for 
routers, and the ASDM for ASA's.

John

-Original Message-
From: e...@wisp-router.com [mailto:e...@wisp-router.com]
Sent: Tuesday, February 17, 2009 07:26 AM
To: 'WISPA General List'
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Mesh just for kicks

Winbox. Then very little need for CLI. There is nothing you can not do through 
winbox that you can not do through CLI. Scripting most people do not use it or 
just use it to execute simple CLI instructions. You have a bunch of script 
samples on wiki.mikrotik.com. 
Like with any advanced networking product there is a little learning curve. 
But reason why most people have problems getting a grip on MikroTik is that 
their network knowledge is limited so they have problem understanding the 
routing concept and understanding how ip works and flows with its source 
ports, destination ports so they have issues creating firewall rules etc. On 
the WISP-Training Mikrotik class (the training material Butch and me created) 
the primary reason it was created was to teach how routing, sub netting and ip 
flows worked and of course from a view point in how to configure this with 
MikroTik. It's a whole lot easier to get running then say a Cisco router where 
everything have to be CLI and firewalling rule creation imo is very cryptic 
and not very straight forward. 

/Eje Gustafsson
CTO
WISP-Router, Inc
Bringing MikroTik to the masses since 2002. 
Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile

-Original Message-
From: os10ru...@gmail.com

Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2009 10:38:04 
To: WISPA General Listwireless@wispa.org
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Mesh just for kicks


Mr. Burgess,

   What frightens me about taking the leap into Mikrotik is it appears  
the web interface is of no use in the advanced configuration and it  
sounds like one must get heavily into the CLI and scripting. I don't  
see an online repository of scripts for programming or even a highly  
detailed help/wiki online. I'm guessing too many people are making too  
much money doing their Mikrotik training to give it away for free. So  
because of the apparently steep learning curve I'm leery to make the  
leap. The more easily configurable (and less powerful) solutions such  
as Ubiquiti look more appealing to me at this point.

   Would you disagree with my perspective? Is making the leap not that  
bad?

Greg
On Feb 17, 2009, at 10:21 AM, Dennis Burgess wrote:

 Ya, don't know why ya don't want a MT solution.  Been there done that
 and it works :)

 * ---
 Dennis Burgess, CCNA, A+, Mikrotik Certified Trainer
 WISPA Board Member - wispa.org http://www.wispa.org/
 Link Technologies, Inc -- Mikrotik  WISP Support Services
 WISPA Vendor Member*
 *Office*: 314-735-0270 *Website*: http://www.linktechs.net
 http://www.linktechs.net/
 */LIVE On-Line Mikrotik Training/*
 http://www.linktechs.net/onlinetraining.asp

 The information transmitted (including attachments) is covered by  
 the Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. 2510-2521, is  
 intended only for the person(s) or entity/entities to which
 it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged  
 material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of,  
 or taking of any action in reliance upon, this information by  
 persons or entities other than the intended recipient(s) is  
 prohibited, If you
 received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the  
 material from any computer.





 e...@wisp-router.com wrote:
 MT and a consultant ;)

 /me laughing while running for cover

 Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile

 -Original Message-
 From: Scott Vander Dussen sc...@velociter.net

 Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2009 21:13:03
 To: WISPA General Listwireless@wispa.org
 Subject: [WISPA] Mesh just for kicks


 Looking to deploy a small mesh network downtown in a small city  
 just for kicks.  Low budget ($4k for ~10 nodes) - just want to get  
 my feet wet and have some fun.

 I'd charge for the service if it was easy enough to do and it  
 worked

Re: [WISPA] Mesh just for kicks

[Matt Larsen - Lists]

Don't drink the Mikrotik kool-aid just yet.   You should probably give 
some consideration to StarOS.   StarOS has an excellent industry 
standard mesh routing protocol built in - OLSR - and the popular X4000 
platform is very low cost (~$350 or so in a four radio configuration).  

I tried Mikrotik and went back to StarOS because I saw much better 
performance and maintainability for the wireless networks that I design 
and operate.   Actual StarOS documentation is kind of sparse, but it 
uses a lot of standard Linux packages (OSLR, OSPF, quagga, cbq, 
iptables) that are well documented.

Unfortunately, StarOS has not done a very good job of getting people 
trained or setting up good relationships with vendors, so you don't hear 
about it as much any more.   For what I do, it is better than Mikrotik 
and I'm very happy with it.

Matt Larsen
mlar...@inventivemedia.net


os10ru...@gmail.com wrote:
 Mr. Burgess and the others who responded - thanks!

 I just downloaded Winbox and I'll be trying it with the x86 version on  
 an old PC first.

 Mikrotik seems inevitable if one's network progresses beyond the  
 something very small and simple. Thanks for the push!

 Greg

 On Feb 17, 2009, at 11:08 AM, Dennis Burgess wrote:

   
 The winbox interface will do everything you need in the mesh setup.   
 If
 you want a turn key solution, its not what you are going to use. I can
 see that as you want something you plug in and it does magic,  
 maybe.  lol.

 There is no scripting that is needed in mikrotik, and like I said, you
 can use Winbox for all configuration changes.  The web interface is  
 not
 the way to go at all.There is a on-line Wiki, and a manual on-line
 that will tell you what you need to know, but you have to know how to
 implement it.  its not paste it in and magic happens.

 As far as making the leap, man I don't think so.  Eje I am sure would
 agree there?

 * ---
 Dennis Burgess, CCNA, A+, Mikrotik Certified Trainer
 WISPA Board Member - wispa.org http://www.wispa.org/
 Link Technologies, Inc -- Mikrotik  WISP Support Services
 WISPA Vendor Member*
 *Office*: 314-735-0270 *Website*: http://www.linktechs.net
 http://www.linktechs.net/
 */LIVE On-Line Mikrotik Training/*
 http://www.linktechs.net/onlinetraining.asp

 The information transmitted (including attachments) is covered by  
 the Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. 2510-2521, is  
 intended only for the person(s) or entity/entities to which
 it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged  
 material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of,  
 or taking of any action in reliance upon, this information by  
 persons or entities other than the intended recipient(s) is  
 prohibited, If you
 received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the  
 material from any computer.





 os10ru...@gmail.com wrote:
 
 Mr. Burgess,

 What frightens me about taking the leap into Mikrotik is it appears
 the web interface is of no use in the advanced configuration and it
 sounds like one must get heavily into the CLI and scripting. I don't
 see an online repository of scripts for programming or even a highly
 detailed help/wiki online. I'm guessing too many people are making  
 too
 much money doing their Mikrotik training to give it away for free. So
 because of the apparently steep learning curve I'm leery to make the
 leap. The more easily configurable (and less powerful) solutions such
 as Ubiquiti look more appealing to me at this point.

 Would you disagree with my perspective? Is making the leap not that
 bad?

 Greg
 On Feb 17, 2009, at 10:21 AM, Dennis Burgess wrote:


   
 Ya, don't know why ya don't want a MT solution.  Been there done  
 that
 and it works :)

 * ---
 Dennis Burgess, CCNA, A+, Mikrotik Certified Trainer
 WISPA Board Member - wispa.org http://www.wispa.org/
 Link Technologies, Inc -- Mikrotik  WISP Support Services
 WISPA Vendor Member*
 *Office*: 314-735-0270 *Website*: http://www.linktechs.net
 http://www.linktechs.net/
 */LIVE On-Line Mikrotik Training/*
 http://www.linktechs.net/onlinetraining.asp

 The information transmitted (including attachments) is covered by
 the Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. 2510-2521, is
 intended only for the person(s) or entity/entities to which
 it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged
 material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of,
 or taking of any action in reliance upon, this information by
 persons or entities other than the intended recipient(s) is
 prohibited, If you
 received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the
 material from any computer.





 e...@wisp-router.com wrote:

 
 MT and a consultant ;)

 /me laughing while running for cover

 Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile

 -Original Message-
 From: 

Re: [WISPA] Mesh just for kicks

[os10rules]

Mr. Larsen,

Thanks. I've heard very good things about StarOS as well. It  
certainly has it's devotees. But as you mentioned Valemount doesn't  
have the presence in the marketplace that Mikrotik has and that makes  
me wonder what kind of position Valemount will be in a number of years  
down the road. I don't change my equipment because of growing demand,  
I tend to use it till its end of life so I think about long term  
support and firmware updates etc.

I will give StarOS a good look before I make any decision.

I'm hoping that as the Ubiquiti line matures they'll incorporate some  
of the better features of RouterOS and StarOS though maybe they plan  
to just stay in the simple AP and CPE market rather that compete head  
to head with Mikrotik and Valemount.

Greg

On Feb 17, 2009, at 5:50 PM, Matt Larsen - Lists wrote:

 Don't drink the Mikrotik kool-aid just yet.   You should probably give
 some consideration to StarOS.   StarOS has an excellent industry
 standard mesh routing protocol built in - OLSR - and the popular X4000
 platform is very low cost (~$350 or so in a four radio configuration).

 I tried Mikrotik and went back to StarOS because I saw much better
 performance and maintainability for the wireless networks that I  
 design
 and operate.   Actual StarOS documentation is kind of sparse, but it
 uses a lot of standard Linux packages (OSLR, OSPF, quagga, cbq,
 iptables) that are well documented.

 Unfortunately, StarOS has not done a very good job of getting people
 trained or setting up good relationships with vendors, so you don't  
 hear
 about it as much any more.   For what I do, it is better than Mikrotik
 and I'm very happy with it.

 Matt Larsen
 mlar...@inventivemedia.net


 os10ru...@gmail.com wrote:
 Mr. Burgess and the others who responded - thanks!

 I just downloaded Winbox and I'll be trying it with the x86 version  
 on
 an old PC first.

 Mikrotik seems inevitable if one's network progresses beyond the
 something very small and simple. Thanks for the push!

 Greg

 On Feb 17, 2009, at 11:08 AM, Dennis Burgess wrote:


 The winbox interface will do everything you need in the mesh setup.
 If
 you want a turn key solution, its not what you are going to use. I  
 can
 see that as you want something you plug in and it does magic,
 maybe.  lol.

 There is no scripting that is needed in mikrotik, and like I said,  
 you
 can use Winbox for all configuration changes.  The web interface is
 not
 the way to go at all.There is a on-line Wiki, and a manual on- 
 line
 that will tell you what you need to know, but you have to know how  
 to
 implement it.  its not paste it in and magic happens.

 As far as making the leap, man I don't think so.  Eje I am sure  
 would
 agree there?

 * ---
 Dennis Burgess, CCNA, A+, Mikrotik Certified Trainer
 WISPA Board Member - wispa.org http://www.wispa.org/
 Link Technologies, Inc -- Mikrotik  WISP Support Services
 WISPA Vendor Member*
 *Office*: 314-735-0270 *Website*: http://www.linktechs.net
 http://www.linktechs.net/
 */LIVE On-Line Mikrotik Training/*
 http://www.linktechs.net/onlinetraining.asp

 The information transmitted (including attachments) is covered by
 the Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. 2510-2521, is
 intended only for the person(s) or entity/entities to which
 it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged
 material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of,
 or taking of any action in reliance upon, this information by
 persons or entities other than the intended recipient(s) is
 prohibited, If you
 received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the
 material from any computer.





 os10ru...@gmail.com wrote:

 Mr. Burgess,

What frightens me about taking the leap into Mikrotik is it  
 appears
 the web interface is of no use in the advanced configuration and it
 sounds like one must get heavily into the CLI and scripting. I  
 don't
 see an online repository of scripts for programming or even a  
 highly
 detailed help/wiki online. I'm guessing too many people are making
 too
 much money doing their Mikrotik training to give it away for  
 free. So
 because of the apparently steep learning curve I'm leery to make  
 the
 leap. The more easily configurable (and less powerful) solutions  
 such
 as Ubiquiti look more appealing to me at this point.

Would you disagree with my perspective? Is making the leap not  
 that
 bad?

 Greg
 On Feb 17, 2009, at 10:21 AM, Dennis Burgess wrote:



 Ya, don't know why ya don't want a MT solution.  Been there done
 that
 and it works :)

 * ---
 Dennis Burgess, CCNA, A+, Mikrotik Certified Trainer
 WISPA Board Member - wispa.org http://www.wispa.org/
 Link Technologies, Inc -- Mikrotik  WISP Support Services
 WISPA Vendor Member*
 *Office*: 314-735-0270 *Website*: 

Re: [WISPA] Mesh just for kicks

[Jerry Richardson]

The opposite - it's so new it's not the website. 

Streakwave has them on their site but I don't know availability.

Your ghetto mesh might work. It's cheap enough to order some up and test
the theory. 
 
__ 
Jerry Richardson 
airCloud Communications

-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Scott Vander Dussen
Sent: Tuesday, February 17, 2009 7:58 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Mesh just for kicks

Jerry-
Thanks - is the Engenius product no longer supported?  I couldn't find
anything on Engenius website about it and seems like only a few
distributors have this product in stock.  Deliberant is in the same
enclosure as OSBridge uses for their full duplex backhauls.

It'd be cool to combo a bullet5 and pico hp2 with a crossover harness
that injects power where the bullet5 + omni would BH the devices and the
pico would provide service to end users.  Seems like you'd get a ghetto
mesh for ~130/node.

Thanks,
`S

-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Jerry Richardson
Sent: Monday, February 16, 2009 10:08 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Mesh just for kicks

I just went through this exercise - spent hours looking at various
options.

Deliberant and Engenius are the two options I arrived at. These seemed
like the best price/performance to me and are refined enough to be
easily supported. It's not true Mesh but rather WDS distribution via
radio 1 and client access on radio 2
- Engenius EOC-7550 Dual radio AP (4 SSID/VLAN) - 199 - cheesy omni's
included I think
- Deliberant DUO Dual radio AP (16 SSID/VLAN) - 349 - no antennas

If you can get away with a single radio WDS setup, then the costs drop
through the floor - Sprinkle them around like chicklets:
- Ubiquity Pico, Nano, etc - 49 and up
- Engenius - copy cats - 49 and up
- Linksys WRT54GL with DD-WRT
- etc

If it really needs to be mesh then the two lowest cost options I found
are:
- MikroTik with two radios - 349/kit assembled - no antennas
- Ligowave DUO and Quad - 1k and up - no antennas



__
Jerry Richardson
airCloud Communications

-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Scott Vander Dussen
Sent: Monday, February 16, 2009 9:13 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: [WISPA] Mesh just for kicks

Looking to deploy a small mesh network downtown in a small city just for
kicks.  Low budget ($4k for ~10 nodes) - just want to get my feet wet
and have some fun.

I'd charge for the service if it was easy enough to do and it worked
good enough to justify a cost, otherwise free.  Was hoping there is was
a turn-key solution (PLEASE don't suggest Mikrotik - I could ask for a
recommendation on how to remove chest hair and someone will mention MT).
Anyhow, turn-key like Meraki advertises would be cool.  How about the
Pico2HP - is there a firmware that works on those that could mesh?  Very
new to mesh - thanks in advance.

`S

PS- Please don't hijack the thread defending how great MT is and how it
can save the world etc.. not bashing, just want plug+play which != MT.
(:




WISPA Wants You! Join today!
http://signup.wispa.org/



WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/




WISPA Wants You! Join today!
http://signup.wispa.org/


 
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/



WISPA Wants You! Join today!
http://signup.wispa.org/

 
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/

Re: [WISPA] Mesh just for kicks

[RickG]

Well, it has a hot spot option, so maybe a cold spot option can be
in the next version :)
-RickG

On Tue, Feb 17, 2009 at 1:24 PM, Scott Vander Dussen
sc...@velociter.net wrote:
 Does MT make ice cream?  If they did, it would be the BEST!

 Haha,
 `S

 -Original Message-
 From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On 
 Behalf Of Dennis Burgess
 Sent: Tuesday, February 17, 2009 9:26 AM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] Mesh just for kicks

 hmmm. ice cream

 * ---
 Dennis Burgess, CCNA, A+, Mikrotik Certified Trainer
 WISPA Board Member - wispa.org http://www.wispa.org/
 Link Technologies, Inc -- Mikrotik  WISP Support Services
 WISPA Vendor Member*
 *Office*: 314-735-0270 *Website*: http://www.linktechs.net
 http://www.linktechs.net/
 */LIVE On-Line Mikrotik Training/*
 http://www.linktechs.net/onlinetraining.asp

 The information transmitted (including attachments) is covered by the 
 Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. 2510-2521, is intended only 
 for the person(s) or entity/entities to which
 it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any 
 review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any 
 action in reliance upon, this information by persons or entities other than 
 the intended recipient(s) is prohibited, If you
 received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material 
 from any computer.





 Harold Bledsoe wrote:
 Or ice cream.  :)


 -Original Message-
 From: Jack Unger jun...@ask-wi.com
 Reply-To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
 To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] Mesh just for kicks
 Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2009 08:27:59 -0800

 I think you are making the point that mesh is a very broad term; it's
 like happiness - there are many flavors...

 Harold Bledsoe wrote:


 Well there is also the mesh part too.  Is this what you guys are talking
 about when you say MT mesh:  http://wiki.mikrotik.com/wiki/Mesh_wds

 If so, I would disagree that this is a good mesh implementation.
 There are many, many more factors to consider when building an
 infrastructure mesh.  The LigoMesh products take into account signal
 strength, hops from GW, node load, datarate, etc. to calculate the best
 path.  Also, there are dedicated radios for uplink/downlink/service set
 to give high performance.

 On the other hand, if you don't need a carrier-grade infrastructure
 mesh, Wiligear products based on the WBD-500 do support Open-Mesh and
 should be available in the very near future on Streakwave's website with
 the option to have them preloaded with Open-mesh (board, indoor, and
 outdoor selections).

 I guess what I'm saying is that not all products are created equal and
 there is certainly a place for each one.  Just be sure you know what you
 are getting!

 -Hal


 -Original Message-
 From: os10ru...@gmail.com
 Reply-To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
 To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] Mesh just for kicks
 Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2009 10:38:04 -0430

 Mr. Burgess,

  What frightens me about taking the leap into Mikrotik is it appears
 the web interface is of no use in the advanced configuration and it
 sounds like one must get heavily into the CLI and scripting. I don't
 see an online repository of scripts for programming or even a highly
 detailed help/wiki online. I'm guessing too many people are making too
 much money doing their Mikrotik training to give it away for free. So
 because of the apparently steep learning curve I'm leery to make the
 leap. The more easily configurable (and less powerful) solutions such
 as Ubiquiti look more appealing to me at this point.

  Would you disagree with my perspective? Is making the leap not that
 bad?

 Greg
 On Feb 17, 2009, at 10:21 AM, Dennis Burgess wrote:




 Ya, don't know why ya don't want a MT solution.  Been there done that
 and it works :)

 * ---
 Dennis Burgess, CCNA, A+, Mikrotik Certified Trainer
 WISPA Board Member - wispa.org http://www.wispa.org/
 Link Technologies, Inc -- Mikrotik  WISP Support Services
 WISPA Vendor Member*
 *Office*: 314-735-0270 *Website*: http://www.linktechs.net
 http://www.linktechs.net/
 */LIVE On-Line Mikrotik Training/*
 http://www.linktechs.net/onlinetraining.asp

 The information transmitted (including attachments) is covered by
 the Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. 2510-2521, is
 intended only for the person(s) or entity/entities to which
 it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged
 material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of,
 or taking of any action in reliance upon, this information by
 persons or entities other than the intended recipient(s) is
 prohibited, If you
 received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the
 material

Re: [WISPA] Mesh just for kicks

[RickG]

There are pluses  minuses to each platform (Mikrotik  StarOS), but
if you want simple, StarOS is it.
-RickG

On Tue, Feb 17, 2009 at 5:20 PM, Matt Larsen - Lists
li...@manageisp.com wrote:
 Don't drink the Mikrotik kool-aid just yet.   You should probably give
 some consideration to StarOS.   StarOS has an excellent industry
 standard mesh routing protocol built in - OLSR - and the popular X4000
 platform is very low cost (~$350 or so in a four radio configuration).

 I tried Mikrotik and went back to StarOS because I saw much better
 performance and maintainability for the wireless networks that I design
 and operate.   Actual StarOS documentation is kind of sparse, but it
 uses a lot of standard Linux packages (OSLR, OSPF, quagga, cbq,
 iptables) that are well documented.

 Unfortunately, StarOS has not done a very good job of getting people
 trained or setting up good relationships with vendors, so you don't hear
 about it as much any more.   For what I do, it is better than Mikrotik
 and I'm very happy with it.

 Matt Larsen
 mlar...@inventivemedia.net


 os10ru...@gmail.com wrote:
 Mr. Burgess and the others who responded - thanks!

 I just downloaded Winbox and I'll be trying it with the x86 version on
 an old PC first.

 Mikrotik seems inevitable if one's network progresses beyond the
 something very small and simple. Thanks for the push!

 Greg

 On Feb 17, 2009, at 11:08 AM, Dennis Burgess wrote:


 The winbox interface will do everything you need in the mesh setup.
 If
 you want a turn key solution, its not what you are going to use. I can
 see that as you want something you plug in and it does magic,
 maybe.  lol.

 There is no scripting that is needed in mikrotik, and like I said, you
 can use Winbox for all configuration changes.  The web interface is
 not
 the way to go at all.There is a on-line Wiki, and a manual on-line
 that will tell you what you need to know, but you have to know how to
 implement it.  its not paste it in and magic happens.

 As far as making the leap, man I don't think so.  Eje I am sure would
 agree there?

 * ---
 Dennis Burgess, CCNA, A+, Mikrotik Certified Trainer
 WISPA Board Member - wispa.org http://www.wispa.org/
 Link Technologies, Inc -- Mikrotik  WISP Support Services
 WISPA Vendor Member*
 *Office*: 314-735-0270 *Website*: http://www.linktechs.net
 http://www.linktechs.net/
 */LIVE On-Line Mikrotik Training/*
 http://www.linktechs.net/onlinetraining.asp

 The information transmitted (including attachments) is covered by
 the Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. 2510-2521, is
 intended only for the person(s) or entity/entities to which
 it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged
 material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of,
 or taking of any action in reliance upon, this information by
 persons or entities other than the intended recipient(s) is
 prohibited, If you
 received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the
 material from any computer.





 os10ru...@gmail.com wrote:

 Mr. Burgess,

 What frightens me about taking the leap into Mikrotik is it appears
 the web interface is of no use in the advanced configuration and it
 sounds like one must get heavily into the CLI and scripting. I don't
 see an online repository of scripts for programming or even a highly
 detailed help/wiki online. I'm guessing too many people are making
 too
 much money doing their Mikrotik training to give it away for free. So
 because of the apparently steep learning curve I'm leery to make the
 leap. The more easily configurable (and less powerful) solutions such
 as Ubiquiti look more appealing to me at this point.

 Would you disagree with my perspective? Is making the leap not that
 bad?

 Greg
 On Feb 17, 2009, at 10:21 AM, Dennis Burgess wrote:



 Ya, don't know why ya don't want a MT solution.  Been there done
 that
 and it works :)

 * ---
 Dennis Burgess, CCNA, A+, Mikrotik Certified Trainer
 WISPA Board Member - wispa.org http://www.wispa.org/
 Link Technologies, Inc -- Mikrotik  WISP Support Services
 WISPA Vendor Member*
 *Office*: 314-735-0270 *Website*: http://www.linktechs.net
 http://www.linktechs.net/
 */LIVE On-Line Mikrotik Training/*
 http://www.linktechs.net/onlinetraining.asp

 The information transmitted (including attachments) is covered by
 the Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. 2510-2521, is
 intended only for the person(s) or entity/entities to which
 it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged
 material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of,
 or taking of any action in reliance upon, this information by
 persons or entities other than the intended recipient(s) is
 prohibited, If you
 received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the
 material from any computer.





 e...@wisp-router.com 

Re: [WISPA] Mesh just for kicks

[Scottie Arnett]

Well said David. I learned of Mikrotik about 3 years ago. There is so much, 
that I am still learning. It is very useful for many things, more than I care 
to mention, for sure when it is many  less than any other solution that can 
do what it does that it is available in the USA. Keep in mind that the 
developers are in Latvia... our  are many more than theirs(or was!) So they 
get paid well when you license the product!

The doc's are behind somewhat, but I keep behind as far as they do on new 
upgrades(for the most part). It does so much more than anything else, I can't 
afford not to use it!

Just my observance.

Scottie 

-- Original Message --
From: David E. Smith d...@mvn.net
Reply-To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Date:  Tue, 17 Feb 2009 09:15:56 -0600

os10ru...@gmail.com wrote:

  What frightens me about taking the leap into Mikrotik is it appears  
 the web interface is of no use in the advanced configuration and it  
 sounds like one must get heavily into the CLI and scripting. I don't  
 see an online repository of scripts for programming or even a highly  
 detailed help/wiki online.

The Web interface is kinda a joke, but the preferred GUI is probably 
Winbox anyway. Winbox is a small proprietary (and Windows-only) 
utility, that you can download via the Web interface, that exposes most 
functionality.

The documentation on Mikrotik's Web site is actually pretty thorough, 
with the caveat that it's always about one version behind. The wiki 
isn't the best, but it has a few clever tricks here and there.

Mikrotik RouterOS's greatest strength is that you can do just about 
anything with it - the same device can do routing, firewalling, traffic 
shaping, BGP, wireless access, wireless client, RADIUS, and about 873 
other things. Its greatest weakness is that you can do just about 
anything with it ...

Fortunately, just about everything is turned off by default, and you can 
usually just ignore the features you're not using. :)

David Smith
MVN.net



WISPA Wants You! Join today!
http://signup.wispa.org/

 
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
---
[This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus]



Wireless High Speed Broadband service from Info-Ed, Inc. as low as $30.00/mth.
Check out www.info-ed.com/wireless.html for information.



WISPA Wants You! Join today!
http://signup.wispa.org/

 
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/

Re: [WISPA] Mesh just for kicks

[Scottie Arnett]

Grow some. I did. There is lots of doc's out there. You just have to take some 
time to learn it. Just like anything else...learning to ride a bike for 
example. It takes trials and tribulations. My company is a two man crew. I took 
time to learn much about MT, but not all yet...I still have days we are sitting 
around tweedling our thumbs, I use it to learn something new about Tik! And not 
messing with our secretary...J/K!

Scottie

-- Original Message --
From: Scott Vander Dussen sc...@velociter.net
Reply-To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Date:  Tue, 17 Feb 2009 07:52:46 -0800

**sigh**  So anyhow, about my chest hair..

`S

-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf 
Of os10ru...@gmail.com
Sent: Tuesday, February 17, 2009 7:49 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Mesh just for kicks

Mr. Burgess and the others who responded - thanks!

I just downloaded Winbox and I'll be trying it with the x86 version on
an old PC first.

Mikrotik seems inevitable if one's network progresses beyond the
something very small and simple. Thanks for the push!

Greg

On Feb 17, 2009, at 11:08 AM, Dennis Burgess wrote:

 The winbox interface will do everything you need in the mesh setup.
 If
 you want a turn key solution, its not what you are going to use. I can
 see that as you want something you plug in and it does magic,
 maybe.  lol.

 There is no scripting that is needed in mikrotik, and like I said, you
 can use Winbox for all configuration changes.  The web interface is
 not
 the way to go at all.There is a on-line Wiki, and a manual on-line
 that will tell you what you need to know, but you have to know how to
 implement it.  its not paste it in and magic happens.

 As far as making the leap, man I don't think so.  Eje I am sure would
 agree there?

 * ---
 Dennis Burgess, CCNA, A+, Mikrotik Certified Trainer
 WISPA Board Member - wispa.org http://www.wispa.org/
 Link Technologies, Inc -- Mikrotik  WISP Support Services
 WISPA Vendor Member*
 *Office*: 314-735-0270 *Website*: http://www.linktechs.net
 http://www.linktechs.net/
 */LIVE On-Line Mikrotik Training/*
 http://www.linktechs.net/onlinetraining.asp

 The information transmitted (including attachments) is covered by
 the Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. 2510-2521, is
 intended only for the person(s) or entity/entities to which
 it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged
 material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of,
 or taking of any action in reliance upon, this information by
 persons or entities other than the intended recipient(s) is
 prohibited, If you
 received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the
 material from any computer.





 os10ru...@gmail.com wrote:
 Mr. Burgess,

  What frightens me about taking the leap into Mikrotik is it appears
 the web interface is of no use in the advanced configuration and it
 sounds like one must get heavily into the CLI and scripting. I don't
 see an online repository of scripts for programming or even a highly
 detailed help/wiki online. I'm guessing too many people are making
 too
 much money doing their Mikrotik training to give it away for free. So
 because of the apparently steep learning curve I'm leery to make the
 leap. The more easily configurable (and less powerful) solutions such
 as Ubiquiti look more appealing to me at this point.

  Would you disagree with my perspective? Is making the leap not that
 bad?

 Greg
 On Feb 17, 2009, at 10:21 AM, Dennis Burgess wrote:


 Ya, don't know why ya don't want a MT solution.  Been there done
 that
 and it works :)

 * ---
 Dennis Burgess, CCNA, A+, Mikrotik Certified Trainer
 WISPA Board Member - wispa.org http://www.wispa.org/
 Link Technologies, Inc -- Mikrotik  WISP Support Services
 WISPA Vendor Member*
 *Office*: 314-735-0270 *Website*: http://www.linktechs.net
 http://www.linktechs.net/
 */LIVE On-Line Mikrotik Training/*
 http://www.linktechs.net/onlinetraining.asp

 The information transmitted (including attachments) is covered by
 the Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. 2510-2521, is
 intended only for the person(s) or entity/entities to which
 it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged
 material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of,
 or taking of any action in reliance upon, this information by
 persons or entities other than the intended recipient(s) is
 prohibited, If you
 received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the
 material from any computer.





 e...@wisp-router.com wrote:

 MT and a consultant ;)

 /me laughing while running for cover

 Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile

 -Original Message-
 From: Scott Vander Dussen sc...@velociter.net

 Date

Re: [WISPA] Mesh just for kicks

[Scottie Arnett]

I am not sure if Deliberant(ligowave) uses polling yet on this platform, I know 
that Engenius follows suit of all Senao happeningsBut I do know that 
OSBridge uses polling on their 2.4 Wifi mac! If you know anything about a 2.4 
wifi mac that you will need polling of some sort to get anymore than 25 to 50 
customers on it, and that is if you are lucky. You can use MT Nstreme and do 
it, or OSBridge, if you want more than 20 to 30 on an AP, you are asking for 
trouble without using polling(and someone in the hidden node area).

Scottie

-- Original Message --
From: Scott Vander Dussen sc...@velociter.net
Reply-To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Date:  Tue, 17 Feb 2009 07:58:12 -0800

Jerry-
Thanks - is the Engenius product no longer supported?  I couldn't find 
anything on Engenius website about it and seems like only a few distributors 
have this product in stock.  Deliberant is in the same enclosure as OSBridge 
uses for their full duplex backhauls.

It'd be cool to combo a bullet5 and pico hp2 with a crossover harness that 
injects power where the bullet5 + omni would BH the devices and the pico would 
provide service to end users.  Seems like you'd get a ghetto mesh for 
~130/node.

Thanks,
`S

-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf 
Of Jerry Richardson
Sent: Monday, February 16, 2009 10:08 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Mesh just for kicks

I just went through this exercise - spent hours looking at various options.

Deliberant and Engenius are the two options I arrived at. These seemed like 
the best price/performance to me and are refined enough to be easily 
supported. It's not true Mesh but rather WDS distribution via radio 1 and 
client access on radio 2
- Engenius EOC-7550 Dual radio AP (4 SSID/VLAN) - 199 - cheesy omni's included 
I think
- Deliberant DUO Dual radio AP (16 SSID/VLAN) - 349 - no antennas

If you can get away with a single radio WDS setup, then the costs drop through 
the floor - Sprinkle them around like chicklets:
- Ubiquity Pico, Nano, etc - 49 and up
- Engenius - copy cats - 49 and up
- Linksys WRT54GL with DD-WRT
- etc

If it really needs to be mesh then the two lowest cost options I found
are:
- MikroTik with two radios - 349/kit assembled - no antennas
- Ligowave DUO and Quad - 1k and up - no antennas



__
Jerry Richardson
airCloud Communications

-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf 
Of Scott Vander Dussen
Sent: Monday, February 16, 2009 9:13 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: [WISPA] Mesh just for kicks

Looking to deploy a small mesh network downtown in a small city just for 
kicks.  Low budget ($4k for ~10 nodes) - just want to get my feet wet and have 
some fun.

I'd charge for the service if it was easy enough to do and it worked good 
enough to justify a cost, otherwise free.  Was hoping there is was a turn-key 
solution (PLEASE don't suggest Mikrotik - I could ask for a recommendation on 
how to remove chest hair and someone will mention MT).
Anyhow, turn-key like Meraki advertises would be cool.  How about the Pico2HP 
- is there a firmware that works on those that could mesh?  Very new to mesh - 
thanks in advance.

`S

PS- Please don't hijack the thread defending how great MT is and how it can 
save the world etc.. not bashing, just want plug+play which != MT.
(:




WISPA Wants You! Join today!
http://signup.wispa.org/



WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/



WISPA Wants You! Join today!
http://signup.wispa.org/

 
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
---
[This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus]



Wireless High Speed Broadband service from Info-Ed, Inc. as low as $30.00/mth.
Check out www.info-ed.com/wireless.html for information.



WISPA Wants You! Join today!
http://signup.wispa.org/

 
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/

Re: [WISPA] Mesh just for kicks

[Scottie Arnett]

Too give credit where credit is due...did not a university do this to begin 
with that worked really well...and all other versions are built on it?

Scottie

-- Original Message --
From: e...@wisp-router.com
Reply-To: e...@wisp-router.com, WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Date:  Tue, 17 Feb 2009 16:36:32 +

MikroTik has its MME implementation that is what should be used instead of 
using WDS for a mesh setup. MME is as true mesh as it gets. 

/Eje
Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile

-Original Message-
From: Harold Bledsoe hbled...@deliberant.net

Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2009 10:52:39 
To: WISPA General Listwireless@wispa.org
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Mesh just for kicks


Well there is also the mesh part too.  Is this what you guys are talking
about when you say MT mesh:  http://wiki.mikrotik.com/wiki/Mesh_wds

If so, I would disagree that this is a good mesh implementation.
There are many, many more factors to consider when building an
infrastructure mesh.  The LigoMesh products take into account signal
strength, hops from GW, node load, datarate, etc. to calculate the best
path.  Also, there are dedicated radios for uplink/downlink/service set
to give high performance.

On the other hand, if you don't need a carrier-grade infrastructure
mesh, Wiligear products based on the WBD-500 do support Open-Mesh and
should be available in the very near future on Streakwave's website with
the option to have them preloaded with Open-mesh (board, indoor, and
outdoor selections).

I guess what I'm saying is that not all products are created equal and
there is certainly a place for each one.  Just be sure you know what you
are getting!

-Hal


-Original Message-
From: os10ru...@gmail.com
Reply-To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Mesh just for kicks
Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2009 10:38:04 -0430

Mr. Burgess,

   What frightens me about taking the leap into Mikrotik is it appears  
the web interface is of no use in the advanced configuration and it  
sounds like one must get heavily into the CLI and scripting. I don't  
see an online repository of scripts for programming or even a highly  
detailed help/wiki online. I'm guessing too many people are making too  
much money doing their Mikrotik training to give it away for free. So  
because of the apparently steep learning curve I'm leery to make the  
leap. The more easily configurable (and less powerful) solutions such  
as Ubiquiti look more appealing to me at this point.

   Would you disagree with my perspective? Is making the leap not that  
bad?

Greg
On Feb 17, 2009, at 10:21 AM, Dennis Burgess wrote:

 Ya, don't know why ya don't want a MT solution.  Been there done that
 and it works :)

 * ---
 Dennis Burgess, CCNA, A+, Mikrotik Certified Trainer
 WISPA Board Member - wispa.org http://www.wispa.org/
 Link Technologies, Inc -- Mikrotik  WISP Support Services
 WISPA Vendor Member*
 *Office*: 314-735-0270 *Website*: http://www.linktechs.net
 http://www.linktechs.net/
 */LIVE On-Line Mikrotik Training/*
 http://www.linktechs.net/onlinetraining.asp

 The information transmitted (including attachments) is covered by  
 the Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. 2510-2521, is  
 intended only for the person(s) or entity/entities to which
 it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged  
 material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of,  
 or taking of any action in reliance upon, this information by  
 persons or entities other than the intended recipient(s) is  
 prohibited, If you
 received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the  
 material from any computer.





 e...@wisp-router.com wrote:
 MT and a consultant ;)

 /me laughing while running for cover

 Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile

 -Original Message-
 From: Scott Vander Dussen sc...@velociter.net

 Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2009 21:13:03
 To: WISPA General Listwireless@wispa.org
 Subject: [WISPA] Mesh just for kicks


 Looking to deploy a small mesh network downtown in a small city  
 just for kicks.  Low budget ($4k for ~10 nodes) - just want to get  
 my feet wet and have some fun.

 I'd charge for the service if it was easy enough to do and it  
 worked good enough to justify a cost, otherwise free.  Was hoping  
 there is was a turn-key solution (PLEASE don't suggest Mikrotik - I  
 could ask for a recommendation on how to remove chest hair and  
 someone will mention MT).  Anyhow, turn-key like Meraki advertises  
 would be cool.  How about the Pico2HP - is there a firmware that  
 works on those that could mesh?  Very new to mesh - thanks in  
 advance.

 `S

 PS- Please don't hijack the thread defending how great MT is and  
 how it can save the world etc.. not bashing, just want plug+play  
 which != MT

Re: [WISPA] Mesh just for kicks

[3-dB Networks]

Ruckus now has a full outdoor radio that would work great for this... easy
to manage and setup.  But the cost will probably kill your budget (I think
the full outdoor units cost around $1k or so... haven't seen the price on
them yet).  The controller would add some cost too.  But it would be a high
quality system.

You could probably also pick up some Tropos boxes relatively cheap.
Managing/setting up the system might be more effort than you want to give
it.

Just remember... you don't want to mesh more than three nodes :-)

Daniel White
3-dB Networks
http://www.3dbnetworks.com


-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Scott Vander Dussen
Sent: Monday, February 16, 2009 10:13 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: [WISPA] Mesh just for kicks

Looking to deploy a small mesh network downtown in a small city just for
kicks.  Low budget ($4k for ~10 nodes) - just want to get my feet wet
and have some fun.

I'd charge for the service if it was easy enough to do and it worked
good enough to justify a cost, otherwise free.  Was hoping there is was
a turn-key solution (PLEASE don't suggest Mikrotik - I could ask for a
recommendation on how to remove chest hair and someone will mention MT).
Anyhow, turn-key like Meraki advertises would be cool.  How about the
Pico2HP - is there a firmware that works on those that could mesh?  Very
new to mesh - thanks in advance.

`S

PS- Please don't hijack the thread defending how great MT is and how it
can save the world etc.. not bashing, just want plug+play which != MT.
(:




WISPA Wants You! Join today!
http://signup.wispa.org/



WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/




WISPA Wants You! Join today!
http://signup.wispa.org/

 
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/

Re: [WISPA] Mesh just for kicks

[eje]

MT and a consultant ;)

/me laughing while running for cover
 
Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile

-Original Message-
From: Scott Vander Dussen sc...@velociter.net

Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2009 21:13:03 
To: WISPA General Listwireless@wispa.org
Subject: [WISPA] Mesh just for kicks


Looking to deploy a small mesh network downtown in a small city just for kicks. 
 Low budget ($4k for ~10 nodes) - just want to get my feet wet and have some 
fun.

I'd charge for the service if it was easy enough to do and it worked good 
enough to justify a cost, otherwise free.  Was hoping there is was a turn-key 
solution (PLEASE don't suggest Mikrotik - I could ask for a recommendation on 
how to remove chest hair and someone will mention MT).  Anyhow, turn-key like 
Meraki advertises would be cool.  How about the Pico2HP - is there a firmware 
that works on those that could mesh?  Very new to mesh - thanks in advance.

`S

PS- Please don't hijack the thread defending how great MT is and how it can 
save the world etc.. not bashing, just want plug+play which != MT.  (:



WISPA Wants You! Join today!
http://signup.wispa.org/

 
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/



WISPA Wants You! Join today!
http://signup.wispa.org/

 
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/

Re: [WISPA] Mesh just for kicks

[os10rules]

I haven't used this stuff but I've been researching it and have  
contacted the companies. One is some ready-made two radio (2.4ghz for  
clients, 5ghz for backhaul) mesh hardware from Wiligear 
http://www.wiligear.com/?q=products/mesh/wbd-212 
  which still requires to you package it up (enclosure, antennas, poe)  
and another possibility in the future is a single radio option 
http://open-mesh.com/ 
. Their web site only shows low end consumer hardware but they are  
working on a firmware for the Picostation2 HP to be available soon  
so this one isn't available just yet. They don't foresee support for  
the NS2 because it doesn't have enough memory. One more option which  
is the most plug and play of the alternatives I know of is 
http://www.kalpeshwireless.com/ 
. You can buy the NS2s from them with their firmware preloaded or load  
it yourself if you already have the hardware. You can manage the whole  
network through the web (their servers). This is available  
immediately. I will be trying this last option myself in the near  
future.

Greg

On Feb 17, 2009, at 12:43 AM, Scott Vander Dussen wrote:

 Looking to deploy a small mesh network downtown in a small city just  
 for kicks.  Low budget ($4k for ~10 nodes) - just want to get my  
 feet wet and have some fun.

 I'd charge for the service if it was easy enough to do and it worked  
 good enough to justify a cost, otherwise free.  Was hoping there is  
 was a turn-key solution (PLEASE don't suggest Mikrotik - I could ask  
 for a recommendation on how to remove chest hair and someone will  
 mention MT).  Anyhow, turn-key like Meraki advertises would be  
 cool.  How about the Pico2HP - is there a firmware that works on  
 those that could mesh?  Very new to mesh - thanks in advance.

 `S

 PS- Please don't hijack the thread defending how great MT is and how  
 it can save the world etc.. not bashing, just want plug+play which ! 
 = MT.  (:


 
 WISPA Wants You! Join today!
 http://signup.wispa.org/
 

 WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

 Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
 http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

 Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/




WISPA Wants You! Join today!
http://signup.wispa.org/

 
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/

Re: [WISPA] Mesh just for kicks

[os10rules]

One more thing I forgot, if you want to use something that is more  
experimental, more do-it-yourself and which supports a greater variety  
of hardware there is OpenWRT's firmware with mesh and also 
http://nightwing.lugro-mesh.org.ar/en/ 
. These are options using routing options such as BATMAN/Robin, OLSRd  
and such. As I understand it in true mesh the boxes run in the ad hoc  
mode instead of wds which reduces redundant retransmission resulting  
in better throughput.

Greg

On Feb 17, 2009, at 12:43 AM, Scott Vander Dussen wrote:

 Looking to deploy a small mesh network downtown in a small city just  
 for kicks.  Low budget ($4k for ~10 nodes) - just want to get my  
 feet wet and have some fun.

 I'd charge for the service if it was easy enough to do and it worked  
 good enough to justify a cost, otherwise free.  Was hoping there is  
 was a turn-key solution (PLEASE don't suggest Mikrotik - I could ask  
 for a recommendation on how to remove chest hair and someone will  
 mention MT).  Anyhow, turn-key like Meraki advertises would be  
 cool.  How about the Pico2HP - is there a firmware that works on  
 those that could mesh?  Very new to mesh - thanks in advance.

 `S

 PS- Please don't hijack the thread defending how great MT is and how  
 it can save the world etc.. not bashing, just want plug+play which ! 
 = MT.  (:


 
 WISPA Wants You! Join today!
 http://signup.wispa.org/
 

 WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

 Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
 http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

 Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/




WISPA Wants You! Join today!
http://signup.wispa.org/

 
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/

Re: [WISPA] Mesh Solutions

[Charles Wyble]

ubnt.com :)



Jerry Richardson wrote:
 What are some sub-$500 solutions for dual radio WiFi Mesh that support
 Multi-SSID with VLAN tagging?
  
 I already know I can do it for around 360/unit with MikroTik, just
 wondering if I am overlooking anything.
  
 Thanks
  
-- 
Charles N Wyble char...@thewybles.com
(818)280-7059 http://charlesnw.blogspot.com
CTO SocalWiFI.net



WISPA Wants You! Join today!
http://signup.wispa.org/

 
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/

Re: [WISPA] mesh throughput?

[Jason Hensley]

Good info.  Also good to know about the web interface.  That's really been my 
only negative on the Ligo gear. 


 

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Matt Hardy
Sent: Tuesday, June 10, 2008 8:54 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] mesh throughput?

Here are some tests we have run with Full/Half/Quarter channel sizes with 
Atheros super features (WMM/Fast Frames/ Packet Bursting) on and
off:

Full:
Super Off: 24Mbps
Super On: 33Mbps
Super On / Turbo: 53Mbps

Half:
Super Off: 11Mbps
Super On: 15Mbps

Quarter:
Super Off: 6Mbps
Super On: 7Mbps

* Note that these are with LigoWave 802.11 standard products, and not with 
LigoPTP :)

One note is that compression is not on in these tests, and we have found it 
will improve throughput a bit. However, you have to be careful because you can 
get somewhat inflated results when using compression because some throughput 
test utilities use pretty compressible data. The throughput test tool built 
into LigoWave (nepim - network pipemeter) can be set to use random data 
patterns by using the -P random switch in shell.

I agree with you Tom; we usually recommend a hard set modulation rate for 
stable links. You're also correct that half size channels max datarate is 27 
(54/2). 

One more thing to add regarding Tom's post... we are designing a new 
architecture for the web interface so that it will be much, much faster.
More to come later! :)

-Matt

On Tue, 2008-06-10 at 20:21 -0500, Tom DeReggi wrote:

 I guess the answer is in what the definition is of Real World :-)
 
 For the record my conservative comment was not meant to be against 
 Ligowave, but specific to Atheros Mini PCi Cards in general, 
 regardless of the software platform.
 I agree if you can get a peak modulation consistently w/ compression, 
 sure you can get the speed. The Ligo MB hardware has the processing 
 power to do the speed, with multiple cards.
 However, in my real world, we are lucky to get 18 mbps modulations, 
 allthough when doing 20Mhz channels we always try for 36mbps mod  if we can.
 I'm not possitive, but I think the 10Mhz channel may max out at 27mbps 
 modulation as an option, with Atheros. (Although That should be 
 verified with Ligo, as I may be mistaken). The problem with commercial 
 grade services is that they generally don't respond well to frequent 
 modulation changes. If a modulation is bouncing back and forth from 36 
 to 18 to 24  to 36, etc, it will have very undesirable effects on the End 
 Users' TCP session throughput.
 We have found it much more advantageous to hard set the Max modulation 
 to a lower number that would result in the least frequent amount of 
 automatic modulation changes. It doesn't matter how fast the radio can 
 test in peak situations, it matters how fast the end user can push 
 their data consistently. Usually the best we can count on consistently 
 is usually closer to 15mbps, in our environment.  We bit ourselves in 
 the Back-side to often quoting 10mbps Full Duplex, and only getting 5 
 mb on way and 10 mbps the other, and having our customers Claim we 
 didn't deliver our SLA, and having to requote/redefine the job.  I'm 
 not saying that people can't get 20mbps, some people here, have just 
 clearly stated that it was possible for them. I just suggest planning 
 for the worst, and being conservative in expectation.
 
 With that said my comment  is not a complaint. I can get qty 4- 15 
 mbps links out of that one 533 Ligo Box, with 10mhz channels, which is 
 pretty darn amazing.
 
 What I liked about Ligo though is their support. They try hard to please.
 There software is also very easy to navigate and intuitive.
 Its a bit slow to navigate (compared to StarOS or MikroTik), due to 
 web interface redraw time between screens, but that's not really a big deal.
 My units have shown to pretty much be install and leave it units, with 
 very little trouble.
 
 Tom DeReggi
 RapidDSL  Wireless, Inc
 IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband
 
 
 - Original Message -
 From: Jason Hensley [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org
 Sent: Tuesday, June 10, 2008 9:42 AM
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] mesh throughput?
 
 
  For the record as well, this is with Fast Frames, Packet Bursting, 
  and Compression all turned on.  We bounce anywhere from 18-20 meg.  
  Very excited about it and EXTREMELY pleased with the results we've 
  had from the Ligowave gear.
 
 
 
 
  -Original Message-
  From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  On Behalf Of Jason Hensley
  Sent: Tuesday, June 10, 2008 7:52 AM
  To: 'WISPA General List'
  Subject: Re: [WISPA] mesh throughput?
 
  Nope, actually getting 20meg off a 10mhz channel in real world high 
  noise environment.
 
 
 
  -Original Message-
  From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  On Behalf Of Tom DeReggi
  Sent: Tuesday, June 10, 2008 1:44 AM
  To: WISPA General List
  Subject: Re: [WISPA] mesh

Re: [WISPA] mesh throughput?

[ralph]

Makes it not really worth building your own either. That little sticker
means a lot  :-)


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Tom DeReggi
Sent: Tuesday, June 10, 2008 2:44 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] mesh throughput?

We have never been able to get 20mbps realworld out of a 10mhz channel 
w/Ligo, or any OEM style unit.  I'd say you are being a bit on the 
optimistic side, or talking best case lab testing.

What I will say is,  Ligo was my winner for best Hardware package. They 
make it solid, from case, to MB, to Pigtail.

Tom DeReggi
RapidDSL  Wireless, Inc
IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband
lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/




WISPA Wants You! Join today!
http://signup.wispa.org/

 
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/

Re: [WISPA] mesh throughput?

[Jason Hensley]

Nope, actually getting 20meg off a 10mhz channel in real world high noise
environment. 

 

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Tom DeReggi
Sent: Tuesday, June 10, 2008 1:44 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] mesh throughput?

We have never been able to get 20mbps realworld out of a 10mhz channel
w/Ligo, or any OEM style unit.  I'd say you are being a bit on the
optimistic side, or talking best case lab testing.

What I will say is,  Ligo was my winner for best Hardware package. They
make it solid, from case, to MB, to Pigtail.

Tom DeReggi
RapidDSL  Wireless, Inc
IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband


- Original Message -
From: Jason Hensley [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Monday, June 09, 2008 1:16 PM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] mesh throughput?


 Wes,

 Are these lab results or real-world?  Matt (Hardy) has mentioned some
 similar speeds on some of your other gear as well.  For the record I'm 
 able
 to pull 20meg on a 10mhz channel with Ligowave gear (real-world, 802.11a 
 in
 a very noisy environment) so I can vouch that it's good stuff - especially
 for the price.



 -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
 Behalf Of Wes James
 Sent: Monday, June 09, 2008 12:30 PM
 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; WISPA General List; Tom Sharples
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] mesh throughput?

 For reference, here is a comparison between single and dual radio MESH
 throughput.


 Wes James
 Ligowave
 800.742.9865

 -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
 Behalf Of Rogelio
 Sent: Monday, June 09, 2008 1:20 AM
 To: Tom Sharples; WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] mesh throughput?

 Tom Sharples wrote:
 You must be looking at some older technologies. In clean environments,
 we're
 seeing  20+ mb/s net data throughput on our dual radio nodes (5 Ghz).

 Ah, very cool.  Please share with me these vendors!

 So, assuming that you set up the channels to not step on each other, this
 type of throughput is fairly solid for a dual radio units?



 
 
 WISPA Wants You! Join today!
 http://signup.wispa.org/
 
 

 WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

 Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
 http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

 Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/






 WISPA Wants You! Join today!
 http://signup.wispa.org/




 WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

 Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
 http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

 Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ 





WISPA Wants You! Join today!
http://signup.wispa.org/


 
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/




WISPA Wants You! Join today!
http://signup.wispa.org/

 
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/

Re: [WISPA] mesh throughput?

[Jason Hensley]

For the record as well, this is with Fast Frames, Packet Bursting, and
Compression all turned on.  We bounce anywhere from 18-20 meg.  Very excited
about it and EXTREMELY pleased with the results we've had from the Ligowave
gear. 


 

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Jason Hensley
Sent: Tuesday, June 10, 2008 7:52 AM
To: 'WISPA General List'
Subject: Re: [WISPA] mesh throughput?

Nope, actually getting 20meg off a 10mhz channel in real world high noise
environment. 

 

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Tom DeReggi
Sent: Tuesday, June 10, 2008 1:44 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] mesh throughput?

We have never been able to get 20mbps realworld out of a 10mhz channel
w/Ligo, or any OEM style unit.  I'd say you are being a bit on the
optimistic side, or talking best case lab testing.

What I will say is,  Ligo was my winner for best Hardware package. They
make it solid, from case, to MB, to Pigtail.

Tom DeReggi
RapidDSL  Wireless, Inc
IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband


- Original Message -
From: Jason Hensley [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Monday, June 09, 2008 1:16 PM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] mesh throughput?


 Wes,

 Are these lab results or real-world?  Matt (Hardy) has mentioned 
 some similar speeds on some of your other gear as well.  For the 
 record I'm able to pull 20meg on a 10mhz channel with Ligowave gear 
 (real-world, 802.11a in a very noisy environment) so I can vouch that 
 it's good stuff - especially for the price.



 -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
 Behalf Of Wes James
 Sent: Monday, June 09, 2008 12:30 PM
 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; WISPA General List; Tom Sharples
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] mesh throughput?

 For reference, here is a comparison between single and dual radio MESH
 throughput.


 Wes James
 Ligowave
 800.742.9865

 -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
 Behalf Of Rogelio
 Sent: Monday, June 09, 2008 1:20 AM
 To: Tom Sharples; WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] mesh throughput?

 Tom Sharples wrote:
 You must be looking at some older technologies. In clean environments,
 we're
 seeing  20+ mb/s net data throughput on our dual radio nodes (5 Ghz).

 Ah, very cool.  Please share with me these vendors!

 So, assuming that you set up the channels to not step on each other, this
 type of throughput is fairly solid for a dual radio units?



 
 
 WISPA Wants You! Join today!
 http://signup.wispa.org/
 
 

 WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

 Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
 http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

 Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/






 WISPA Wants You! Join today!
 http://signup.wispa.org/




 WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

 Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
 http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

 Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ 





WISPA Wants You! Join today!
http://signup.wispa.org/


 
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/





WISPA Wants You! Join today!
http://signup.wispa.org/


 
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/




WISPA Wants You! Join today!
http://signup.wispa.org/

 
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/

Re: [WISPA] mesh throughput?

[Matt Hardy]

Here are some tests we have run with Full/Half/Quarter channel sizes
with Atheros super features (WMM/Fast Frames/ Packet Bursting) on and
off:

Full:
Super Off: 24Mbps
Super On: 33Mbps
Super On / Turbo: 53Mbps

Half:
Super Off: 11Mbps
Super On: 15Mbps

Quarter:
Super Off: 6Mbps
Super On: 7Mbps

* Note that these are with LigoWave 802.11 standard products, and not
with LigoPTP :)

One note is that compression is not on in these tests, and we have found
it will improve throughput a bit. However, you have to be careful
because you can get somewhat inflated results when using compression
because some throughput test utilities use pretty compressible data. The
throughput test tool built into LigoWave (nepim - network pipemeter) can
be set to use random data patterns by using the -P random switch in
shell.

I agree with you Tom; we usually recommend a hard set modulation rate
for stable links. You're also correct that half size channels max
datarate is 27 (54/2). 

One more thing to add regarding Tom's post... we are designing a new
architecture for the web interface so that it will be much, much faster.
More to come later! :)

-Matt

On Tue, 2008-06-10 at 20:21 -0500, Tom DeReggi wrote:

 I guess the answer is in what the definition is of Real World :-)
 
 For the record my conservative comment was not meant to be against Ligowave, 
 but specific to Atheros Mini PCi Cards in general, regardless of the 
 software platform.
 I agree if you can get a peak modulation consistently w/ compression, sure 
 you can get the speed. The Ligo MB hardware has the processing power to do 
 the speed, with multiple cards.
 However, in my real world, we are lucky to get 18 mbps modulations, 
 allthough when doing 20Mhz channels we always try for 36mbps mod  if we can. 
 I'm not possitive, but I think the 10Mhz channel may max out at 27mbps 
 modulation as an option, with Atheros. (Although That should be verified 
 with Ligo, as I may be mistaken). The problem with commercial grade services 
 is that they generally don't respond well to frequent modulation changes. If 
 a modulation is bouncing back and forth from 36 to 18 to 24  to 36, etc, it 
 will have very undesirable effects on the End Users' TCP session throughput. 
 We have found it much more advantageous to hard set the Max modulation to a 
 lower number that would result in the least frequent amount of automatic 
 modulation changes. It doesn't matter how fast the radio can test in peak 
 situations, it matters how fast the end user can push their data 
 consistently. Usually the best we can count on consistently is usually 
 closer to 15mbps, in our environment.  We bit ourselves in the Back-side to 
 often quoting 10mbps Full Duplex, and only getting 5 mb on way and 10 mbps 
 the other, and having our customers Claim we didn't deliver our SLA, and 
 having to requote/redefine the job.  I'm not saying that people can't get 
 20mbps, some people here, have just clearly stated that it was possible for 
 them. I just suggest planning for the worst, and being conservative in 
 expectation.
 
 With that said my comment  is not a complaint. I can get qty 4- 15 mbps 
 links out of that one 533 Ligo Box, with 10mhz channels, which is pretty 
 darn amazing.
 
 What I liked about Ligo though is their support. They try hard to please.
 There software is also very easy to navigate and intuitive.
 Its a bit slow to navigate (compared to StarOS or MikroTik), due to web 
 interface redraw time between screens, but that's not really a big deal.
 My units have shown to pretty much be install and leave it units, with very 
 little trouble.
 
 Tom DeReggi
 RapidDSL  Wireless, Inc
 IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband
 
 
 - Original Message - 
 From: Jason Hensley [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org
 Sent: Tuesday, June 10, 2008 9:42 AM
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] mesh throughput?
 
 
  For the record as well, this is with Fast Frames, Packet Bursting, and
  Compression all turned on.  We bounce anywhere from 18-20 meg.  Very 
  excited
  about it and EXTREMELY pleased with the results we've had from the 
  Ligowave
  gear.
 
 
 
 
  -Original Message-
  From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
  Behalf Of Jason Hensley
  Sent: Tuesday, June 10, 2008 7:52 AM
  To: 'WISPA General List'
  Subject: Re: [WISPA] mesh throughput?
 
  Nope, actually getting 20meg off a 10mhz channel in real world high noise
  environment.
 
 
 
  -Original Message-
  From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
  Behalf Of Tom DeReggi
  Sent: Tuesday, June 10, 2008 1:44 AM
  To: WISPA General List
  Subject: Re: [WISPA] mesh throughput?
 
  We have never been able to get 20mbps realworld out of a 10mhz channel
  w/Ligo, or any OEM style unit.  I'd say you are being a bit on the
  optimistic side, or talking best case lab testing.
 
  What I will say is,  Ligo was my winner for best Hardware package. They
  make it solid, from case, to MB

Re: [WISPA] mesh throughput?

[Jason Hensley]

Wes,

Are these lab results or real-world?  Matt (Hardy) has mentioned some
similar speeds on some of your other gear as well.  For the record I'm able
to pull 20meg on a 10mhz channel with Ligowave gear (real-world, 802.11a in
a very noisy environment) so I can vouch that it's good stuff - especially
for the price.  

 

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Wes James
Sent: Monday, June 09, 2008 12:30 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; WISPA General List; Tom Sharples
Subject: Re: [WISPA] mesh throughput?

For reference, here is a comparison between single and dual radio MESH
throughput.


Wes James
Ligowave
800.742.9865

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Rogelio
Sent: Monday, June 09, 2008 1:20 AM
To: Tom Sharples; WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] mesh throughput?

Tom Sharples wrote:
 You must be looking at some older technologies. In clean environments,
we're 
 seeing  20+ mb/s net data throughput on our dual radio nodes (5 Ghz).

Ah, very cool.  Please share with me these vendors!

So, assuming that you set up the channels to not step on each other, this
type of throughput is fairly solid for a dual radio units?





WISPA Wants You! Join today!
http://signup.wispa.org/


 
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/




WISPA Wants You! Join today!
http://signup.wispa.org/

 
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/

Re: [WISPA] mesh throughput?

[Wes James]

How about a real world simulation done in a lab :) 
I believe with close node spacing (good signal levels) and low noise,
these numbers are feasible.

The first dual-radio test had turbo mode enabled. The last page has
results for turbo disabled.

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Jason Hensley
Sent: Monday, June 09, 2008 2:17 PM
To: 'WISPA General List'
Subject: Re: [WISPA] mesh throughput?

Wes,

Are these lab results or real-world?  Matt (Hardy) has mentioned some
similar speeds on some of your other gear as well.  For the record I'm
able
to pull 20meg on a 10mhz channel with Ligowave gear (real-world, 802.11a
in
a very noisy environment) so I can vouch that it's good stuff -
especially
for the price.  

 

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Wes James
Sent: Monday, June 09, 2008 12:30 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; WISPA General List; Tom Sharples
Subject: Re: [WISPA] mesh throughput?

For reference, here is a comparison between single and dual radio MESH
throughput.


Wes James
Ligowave
800.742.9865

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Rogelio
Sent: Monday, June 09, 2008 1:20 AM
To: Tom Sharples; WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] mesh throughput?

Tom Sharples wrote:
 You must be looking at some older technologies. In clean environments,
we're 
 seeing  20+ mb/s net data throughput on our dual radio nodes (5 Ghz).

Ah, very cool.  Please share with me these vendors!

So, assuming that you set up the channels to not step on each other,
this
type of throughput is fairly solid for a dual radio units?





WISPA Wants You! Join today!
http://signup.wispa.org/


 
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/





WISPA Wants You! Join today!
http://signup.wispa.org/


 
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/



WISPA Wants You! Join today!
http://signup.wispa.org/

 
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/

Re: [WISPA] mesh throughput?

[Tom Sharples]

Nothing as fancy from me. Here's the result of a test I just did by shelling 
into one of our recent video surveillance installations and running the 
simple built-in test tool we have in our equipment. This test script 
repeatedly copies a locally-stored 1.3 meg compressed zip file through a 
client tunnel (any number of hops) to a remote destination, and displays the 
peak and average transfer rates in Kbytes.

In this example, the local node is about 150 feet away from the base of a 
10-story building, the intermediate dual-radio node is at the top of the 
same building, and the destination node is on another 10-story building 
about 700 feet away. This shows a typical net data transfer rate of around 
20 mb/s through two hops (non-turbo  no compression) with all nodes on the 
5.8 Ghz band. With turbo here in the lab we've achieved almost double that.

Tom Sharples
President
Qorvus Systems, Inc.
www.qorvus.com
800.757.1571 Ext 100


[EMAIL PROTECTED]:/usr/local# ./gateway_load_test


172.16.142.2 link speed test:
  % Total% Received % Xferd  Average Speed  Time 
Curr.
 Dload  Upload TotalCurrent  Left 
Speed
100 1237k  100 1237k0 0  2431k  0  0:00:00  0:00:00  0:00:00 
2912k


172.16.224.2 link speed test:
  % Total% Received % Xferd  Average Speed  Time 
Curr.
 Dload  Upload TotalCurrent  Left 
Speed
100 1237k  100 1237k0 0  1858k  0  0:00:00  0:00:00  0:00:00 
2137k


172.16.142.2 link speed test:
  % Total% Received % Xferd  Average Speed  Time 
Curr.
 Dload  Upload TotalCurrent  Left 
Speed
100 1237k  100 1237k0 0  2460k  0  0:00:00  0:00:00  0:00:00 
2905k



- Original Message - 
From: Wes James [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Monday, June 09, 2008 12:04 PM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] mesh throughput?


 How about a real world simulation done in a lab :)
 I believe with close node spacing (good signal levels) and low noise,
 these numbers are feasible.

 The first dual-radio test had turbo mode enabled. The last page has
 results for turbo disabled.

 -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
 Behalf Of Jason Hensley
 Sent: Monday, June 09, 2008 2:17 PM
 To: 'WISPA General List'
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] mesh throughput?

 Wes,

 Are these lab results or real-world?  Matt (Hardy) has mentioned some
 similar speeds on some of your other gear as well.  For the record I'm
 able
 to pull 20meg on a 10mhz channel with Ligowave gear (real-world, 802.11a
 in
 a very noisy environment) so I can vouch that it's good stuff -
 especially
 for the price.



 -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
 Behalf Of Wes James
 Sent: Monday, June 09, 2008 12:30 PM
 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; WISPA General List; Tom Sharples
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] mesh throughput?

 For reference, here is a comparison between single and dual radio MESH
 throughput.


 Wes James
 Ligowave
 800.742.9865

 -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
 Behalf Of Rogelio
 Sent: Monday, June 09, 2008 1:20 AM
 To: Tom Sharples; WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] mesh throughput?

 Tom Sharples wrote:
 You must be looking at some older technologies. In clean environments,
 we're
 seeing  20+ mb/s net data throughput on our dual radio nodes (5 Ghz).

 Ah, very cool.  Please share with me these vendors!

 So, assuming that you set up the channels to not step on each other,
 this
 type of throughput is fairly solid for a dual radio units?



 
 
 WISPA Wants You! Join today!
 http://signup.wispa.org/
 
 

 WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

 Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
 http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

 Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/



 
 
 WISPA Wants You! Join today!
 http://signup.wispa.org/
 
 

 WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

 Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
 http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

 Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/


 
 WISPA Wants You! Join today!
 http://signup.wispa.org/
 

 WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

 Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
 http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

 Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ 




WISPA Wants You! Join today!
http

Re: [WISPA] mesh throughput?

[Rogelio]

I suppose one way to tell would be to just poll the MIBs of the units in 
question with Cacti.

(I haven't done this yet, but it works on other networking equipment)



WISPA Wants You! Join today!
http://signup.wispa.org/

 
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/

Re: [WISPA] mesh throughput?

[Kurt Fankhauser]

Single radio  mesh sucks, on the bench it might work OK but out in the real
world with other AP's in the vicinity it might be so bad you can't use it
for much.

Kurt Fankhauser
WAVELINC
P.O. Box 126
Bucyrus, OH 44820
419-562-6405
www.wavelinc.com
 
 
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Rogelio
Sent: Sunday, June 08, 2008 1:00 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: [WISPA] mesh throughput?

I've been reading up on mesh throughput numbers, and I'd like to know what
people here think about some of these ballpark numbers I've been reading (I
have yet to see these in real life)
single radio mesh: 1-2 Mbps
dual radio mesh: 3-4 Mbps
switched radio mesh: 5-10 Mbps

One vendor is advertising triple play services on their switched radio
mesh, and I don't see how HD TV is possible without fiber, so I'm assuming
that they must mean surveillance TV or something like that.

-- 
Also on LinkedIn? Feel free to add me as a friend: [EMAIL PROTECTED]




WISPA Wants You! Join today!
http://signup.wispa.org/


 
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/




WISPA Wants You! Join today!
http://signup.wispa.org/

 
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/

Re: [WISPA] mesh throughput?

[Tom Sharples]

You must be looking at some older technologies. In clean environments, we're 
seeing  20+ mb/s net data throughput on our dual radio nodes (5 Ghz).

Tom Sharples
Qorvus Systems, Inc.

- Original Message - 
From: Rogelio [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Sunday, June 08, 2008 9:59 AM
Subject: [WISPA] mesh throughput?


 I've been reading up on mesh throughput numbers, and I'd like to know what
 people here think about some of these ballpark numbers I've been reading 
 (I
 have yet to see these in real life)
 single radio mesh: 1-2 Mbps
 dual radio mesh: 3-4 Mbps
 switched radio mesh: 5-10 Mbps

 One vendor is advertising triple play services on their switched radio
 mesh, and I don't see how HD TV is possible without fiber, so I'm assuming
 that they must mean surveillance TV or something like that.

 -- 
 Also on LinkedIn? Feel free to add me as a friend: [EMAIL PROTECTED]


 
 WISPA Wants You! Join today!
 http://signup.wispa.org/
 

 WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

 Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
 http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

 Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ 




WISPA Wants You! Join today!
http://signup.wispa.org/

 
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/

Re: [WISPA] mesh throughput?

[Rogelio]

Tom Sharples wrote:
 You must be looking at some older technologies. In clean environments, we're 
 seeing  20+ mb/s net data throughput on our dual radio nodes (5 Ghz).

Ah, very cool.  Please share with me these vendors!

So, assuming that you set up the channels to not step on each other, 
this type of throughput is fairly solid for a dual radio units?




WISPA Wants You! Join today!
http://signup.wispa.org/

 
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/

Re: [WISPA] Mesh Equipment

[Dylan Oliver]

John,

It's now April 5th. How are you faring with the Cisco mesh gear?

On 3/1/06, John J. Thomas [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 The Cisco radios can do 4.9-5.8 GHz. I am assuming that 5.3-5.7 will be 
 available in a update, since 4.9 is available now. Cisco apparently only has 
 6-8 deployments so far, and they are releasing updates regularly.

 Our install is tentatively scheduled for March 14th, so I should be able to 
 post info shortly thereafter.

Best,
--
Dylan Oliver
Primaverity, LLC
--
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/

Re: [WISPA] Mesh Equipment

[John J. Thomas]

The Cisco radios can do 4.9-5.8 GHz. I am assuming that 5.3-5.7 will be 
available in a update, since 4.9 is available now. Cisco apparently only has 
6-8 deployments so far, and they are releasing updates regularly.

Our install is tentatively scheduled for March 14th, so I should be able to 
post info shortly thereafter.

John


-Original Message-
From: Tom DeReggi [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Monday, February 27, 2006 04:14 PM
To: 'WISPA General List'
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Mesh Equipment

It uses a 5.7-8 GHz radio for backhaul and 2.4 GHz for access.

Thats the first mistake of the gear. It should take advantage of 5.3Ghz and
5.4Ghz, for creating its backhauls.  Using 5.8Ghz for short range backhauls,
just means that they plan to go head to head against Super Cell providers.
Sounds like an Interference battle to me.

I wonder why so many people never listen to the quote I took the road less
travelled, and it made all the difference, Robert Frost.

5.8Ghz is best for Sector deployments that really need the higher power to
blast through obstructions or long haul. So why pick the spectrum most in
demand by everyone else? Unless of course the idea was to deploy sector 
super cell designs as the core to feed the MESH relay points. However, that
wouldn't really be typical mesh topology, (although it may according to 
Cisco's definition :-)

Tom DeReggi
RapidDSL  Wireless, Inc
IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband


- Original Message -
From: John J. Thomas [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Saturday, February 25, 2006 2:17 PM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Mesh Equipment


We are still waiting to deply Cisco mesh, so I can't vouch for it *yet*. We
will be installing for the City of Gilroy Ca. probably in the next 4 weeks.
This is currently only a partial deployment, but they plan on lighting the
whole city. I can tell you that the equipment is expensive -$3500 per mesh
box but has fantastic specs. It uses a 5.7-8 GHz radio for backhaul and 2.4
GHz for access. As soon as I get the testing done, I promise to share
numbers

John Thomas


-Original Message-
From: ISPlists [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, February 22, 2006 02:32 PM
To: isp-wireless@isp-wireless.com, ''WISPA General List''
Subject: [WISPA] Mesh Equipment

Does anyone have a good recommendation on some Mesh equipment.  I have a
small town that wants to provide Internet access to the entire town and I'm
thinking of using mesh technology.  Any ideas would be great.

Thanks,
Steve


--
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/

--
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/



--
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/

Re: [WISPA] Mesh Equipment

[Tom DeReggi]

Lonnie,

What I might not have made clear in previous posts, MESH is to broad a term 
to discuss. The way most people would deploy MESH networks today, I feel is 
flawed.
I'm referring to wireless with large number of hops between end to end 
points to blanket an area.


However, I agree and its worth recognizing that some concepts that are used 
for MESH are very worthly of recognition, and a step in the right direction 
to improve and smarten routing for wireless network. A perfect example of 
this is the open source core to Star-OS's MESH technology. The attempt is to 
be able to make smarter decisions, not jsut on Up/Down or shortest path 
conditions, but packet loss or latency of the link for example.  OSPF, has 
been a standard for years for automatic internal network routing, but it is 
really inadequate for Wireless. It can't consider factors that are common to 
wireless. For example a marginal link apposed to a down link.  MESH is 
working hard to improve intelligent routing based on QOS of links.  So 
Star-OS is nothing but a stronger product because it add the MESH features. 
But I don't feel what it adds is mesh.  Mesh is not a protocol, its a 
topology. MEsh can;t be added to a radio, a designer uses radios to deploy 
MESHes.  What Star-OS is really adding to its product line is SMARTER 
routing that considers wireless conditions. These techniques, often 
misinterpretted as MESH, can be very useful put to work for an engineered 
network as well. I'd love to have a protocol that could determine which path 
to take based on packet loss. But I'd deploy that on my master Super cell 
router between backhauls, not deploy my network like a huge city mesh with 
Radios every 600 feet to blanket an area using the technology.


I think people are confusing MESH, a topology, with protocols utilized by 
MESH.  The protocols used in MESH are worthly. My larger point in previous 
Emails is that the intelligence of these advance and ambitious new 
protocols, still isn't good enough. It doesn't consider all the factors that 
need to be considered to make the most intelligent decissions to replace the 
network designer, who otherwise would make those decissions. Off the top of 
my head I can't recall all the reason, but two might have been, the inabilty 
to track several hops deep, or consider the dollar cost of the decission.


So in summary, Progress is not a Solution.  Progress is a science 
project, and sometimes gets us closer to the goal, and often deserves an 
award for its innovative ideas, but none the less, progress still is just 
progress.  When the end goal is reached, it becomes a solution.


My fear is that there are millions of combinations of things to consider to 
determine the best path and how it will effect others.  The inteligence to 
compile the data to all the factors would be almost like a Neuro network, 
(or what every that name is), and the processing power of rotuer CPE boards 
available today, wouldn't have enough processing power to consider it all in 
real time, at packet speed.


MESH protocols (not topology, unless you use Cisco's definition :-) has 
promise, and I see it on the forefront for further innovation by innovators, 
however, it has had promise for the last five years, and is no where near a 
solution yet.


Just my 2 cents.

Tom DeReggi
RapidDSL  Wireless, Inc
IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband


- Original Message - 
From: Lonnie Nunweiler [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Saturday, February 25, 2006 12:02 AM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Mesh Equipment


Tom, what if you could take the Cell/Sector system and add some
routing that determined when a path had stopped and chose another one.

You have controlled this by your choice of units to make those cross
connections and really all that is happening is that the mesh routing
is constantly testing to see if it needs to try another route.

We used to do this manually and what a pain it was.  This new routing
does what I used to do, except it does not sleep, have bathroom breaks
or go out for lunch.  You can assign weights to connections and force
your chosen route to get used, at least until it goes down, which
hopefully never happens, but if and when it does you are covered with
your alternate path.

What is so terrible about that?

Lonnie

On 2/24/06, Tom DeReggi [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

Brad,

 I agree. Our downtown Mesh versus Cell/Sector trials proved exactly that.
Our tests showed that the cities like DC could be better served with
Cell/Sector models more effectively.
As a matter of fact, Alvarion product, appeared to be well equiped for 
that

task.
I think projects like Phili's will bring a rude awakening. I can't prove
that, but there is no reason for me to.
Thats the point of modelling. So you can pre-dict BEFORE you spend.
Its the Muni's budget to pay for, to find the true answer, not mine.

Tom DeReggi
RapidDSL  Wireless, Inc
IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband

Re: [WISPA] Mesh Equipment

[Tom DeReggi]

It uses a 5.7-8 GHz radio for backhaul and 2.4 GHz for access.


Thats the first mistake of the gear. It should take advantage of 5.3Ghz and 
5.4Ghz, for creating its backhauls.  Using 5.8Ghz for short range backhauls, 
just means that they plan to go head to head against Super Cell providers. 
Sounds like an Interference battle to me.


I wonder why so many people never listen to the quote I took the road less 
travelled, and it made all the difference, Robert Frost.


5.8Ghz is best for Sector deployments that really need the higher power to 
blast through obstructions or long haul. So why pick the spectrum most in 
demand by everyone else? Unless of course the idea was to deploy sector 
super cell designs as the core to feed the MESH relay points. However, that 
wouldn't really be typical mesh topology, (although it may according to 
Cisco's definition :-)


Tom DeReggi
RapidDSL  Wireless, Inc
IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband


- Original Message - 
From: John J. Thomas [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Saturday, February 25, 2006 2:17 PM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Mesh Equipment


We are still waiting to deply Cisco mesh, so I can't vouch for it *yet*. We 
will be installing for the City of Gilroy Ca. probably in the next 4 weeks. 
This is currently only a partial deployment, but they plan on lighting the 
whole city. I can tell you that the equipment is expensive -$3500 per mesh 
box but has fantastic specs. It uses a 5.7-8 GHz radio for backhaul and 2.4 
GHz for access. As soon as I get the testing done, I promise to share 
numbers


John Thomas



-Original Message-
From: ISPlists [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, February 22, 2006 02:32 PM
To: isp-wireless@isp-wireless.com, ''WISPA General List''
Subject: [WISPA] Mesh Equipment

Does anyone have a good recommendation on some Mesh equipment.  I have a 
small town that wants to provide Internet access to the entire town and I'm 
thinking of using mesh technology.  Any ideas would be great.


Thanks,
Steve



--
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ 


--
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/

Re: [WISPA] Mesh Equipment

[Lonnie Nunweiler]

I am in agreement.  Mesh is being abused by some people.  Mesh is a
routing mechanism in the same way that RIP and OSPF are routing
mechanisms.  You don't build a RIP or an OSPF, but rather you employ
RIP or OSPF to organize and automate your routing.  That is all we are
doing with OLSR, just adding another routing option.

I think we'll start describing the new routing as WEB Routing, and let
the MESH guys have their buzzwords.

Lonnie

On 2/27/06, Tom DeReggi [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Lonnie,

 What I might not have made clear in previous posts, MESH is to broad a term
 to discuss. The way most people would deploy MESH networks today, I feel is
 flawed.
 I'm referring to wireless with large number of hops between end to end
 points to blanket an area.

 However, I agree and its worth recognizing that some concepts that are used
 for MESH are very worthly of recognition, and a step in the right direction
 to improve and smarten routing for wireless network. A perfect example of
 this is the open source core to Star-OS's MESH technology. The attempt is to
 be able to make smarter decisions, not jsut on Up/Down or shortest path
 conditions, but packet loss or latency of the link for example.  OSPF, has
 been a standard for years for automatic internal network routing, but it is
 really inadequate for Wireless. It can't consider factors that are common to
 wireless. For example a marginal link apposed to a down link.  MESH is
 working hard to improve intelligent routing based on QOS of links.  So
 Star-OS is nothing but a stronger product because it add the MESH features.
 But I don't feel what it adds is mesh.  Mesh is not a protocol, its a
 topology. MEsh can;t be added to a radio, a designer uses radios to deploy
 MESHes.  What Star-OS is really adding to its product line is SMARTER
 routing that considers wireless conditions. These techniques, often
 misinterpretted as MESH, can be very useful put to work for an engineered
 network as well. I'd love to have a protocol that could determine which path
 to take based on packet loss. But I'd deploy that on my master Super cell
 router between backhauls, not deploy my network like a huge city mesh with
 Radios every 600 feet to blanket an area using the technology.

 I think people are confusing MESH, a topology, with protocols utilized by
 MESH.  The protocols used in MESH are worthly. My larger point in previous
 Emails is that the intelligence of these advance and ambitious new
 protocols, still isn't good enough. It doesn't consider all the factors that
 need to be considered to make the most intelligent decissions to replace the
 network designer, who otherwise would make those decissions. Off the top of
 my head I can't recall all the reason, but two might have been, the inabilty
 to track several hops deep, or consider the dollar cost of the decission.

 So in summary, Progress is not a Solution.  Progress is a science
 project, and sometimes gets us closer to the goal, and often deserves an
 award for its innovative ideas, but none the less, progress still is just
 progress.  When the end goal is reached, it becomes a solution.

 My fear is that there are millions of combinations of things to consider to
 determine the best path and how it will effect others.  The inteligence to
 compile the data to all the factors would be almost like a Neuro network,
 (or what every that name is), and the processing power of rotuer CPE boards
 available today, wouldn't have enough processing power to consider it all in
 real time, at packet speed.

 MESH protocols (not topology, unless you use Cisco's definition :-) has
 promise, and I see it on the forefront for further innovation by innovators,
 however, it has had promise for the last five years, and is no where near a
 solution yet.

 Just my 2 cents.

 Tom DeReggi
 RapidDSL  Wireless, Inc
 IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband


 - Original Message -
 From: Lonnie Nunweiler [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
 Sent: Saturday, February 25, 2006 12:02 AM
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] Mesh Equipment


 Tom, what if you could take the Cell/Sector system and add some
 routing that determined when a path had stopped and chose another one.

 You have controlled this by your choice of units to make those cross
 connections and really all that is happening is that the mesh routing
 is constantly testing to see if it needs to try another route.

 We used to do this manually and what a pain it was.  This new routing
 does what I used to do, except it does not sleep, have bathroom breaks
 or go out for lunch.  You can assign weights to connections and force
 your chosen route to get used, at least until it goes down, which
 hopefully never happens, but if and when it does you are covered with
 your alternate path.

 What is so terrible about that?

 Lonnie

 On 2/24/06, Tom DeReggi [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  Brad,
 
   I agree. Our downtown Mesh versus Cell/Sector trials proved exactly that.
  Our

Re: [WISPA] Mesh Equipment

[Jeromie Reeves]

Lonnie Nunweiler wrote:


I am in agreement.  Mesh is being abused by some people.  Mesh is a
routing mechanism in the same way that RIP and OSPF are routing
mechanisms.

No. OLSR is a routing protoco like RIP/OLSR. Meshis a network design 
like Bus, Star and Ring.
Mesh is overloaping Stars produced from one or more PtPa nd PtMP links. 
Look at Matt Liotta's

PDF, its explained very well.


 You don't build a RIP or an OSPF, but rather you employ
RIP or OSPF to organize and automate your routing.  That is all we are
doing with OLSR, just adding another routing option.

I think we'll start describing the new routing as WEB Routing, and let
the MESH guys have their buzzwords.
 


We dont need our own buzz words to muddy thing any more.

Jeromie


Lonnie

On 2/27/06, Tom DeReggi [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 


Lonnie,

What I might not have made clear in previous posts, MESH is to broad a term
to discuss. The way most people would deploy MESH networks today, I feel is
flawed.
I'm referring to wireless with large number of hops between end to end
points to blanket an area.

However, I agree and its worth recognizing that some concepts that are used
for MESH are very worthly of recognition, and a step in the right direction
to improve and smarten routing for wireless network. A perfect example of
this is the open source core to Star-OS's MESH technology. The attempt is to
be able to make smarter decisions, not jsut on Up/Down or shortest path
conditions, but packet loss or latency of the link for example.  OSPF, has
been a standard for years for automatic internal network routing, but it is
really inadequate for Wireless. It can't consider factors that are common to
wireless. For example a marginal link apposed to a down link.  MESH is
working hard to improve intelligent routing based on QOS of links.  So
Star-OS is nothing but a stronger product because it add the MESH features.
But I don't feel what it adds is mesh.  Mesh is not a protocol, its a
topology. MEsh can;t be added to a radio, a designer uses radios to deploy
MESHes.  What Star-OS is really adding to its product line is SMARTER
routing that considers wireless conditions. These techniques, often
misinterpretted as MESH, can be very useful put to work for an engineered
network as well. I'd love to have a protocol that could determine which path
to take based on packet loss. But I'd deploy that on my master Super cell
router between backhauls, not deploy my network like a huge city mesh with
Radios every 600 feet to blanket an area using the technology.

I think people are confusing MESH, a topology, with protocols utilized by
MESH.  The protocols used in MESH are worthly. My larger point in previous
Emails is that the intelligence of these advance and ambitious new
protocols, still isn't good enough. It doesn't consider all the factors that
need to be considered to make the most intelligent decissions to replace the
network designer, who otherwise would make those decissions. Off the top of
my head I can't recall all the reason, but two might have been, the inabilty
to track several hops deep, or consider the dollar cost of the decission.

So in summary, Progress is not a Solution.  Progress is a science
project, and sometimes gets us closer to the goal, and often deserves an
award for its innovative ideas, but none the less, progress still is just
progress.  When the end goal is reached, it becomes a solution.

My fear is that there are millions of combinations of things to consider to
determine the best path and how it will effect others.  The inteligence to
compile the data to all the factors would be almost like a Neuro network,
(or what every that name is), and the processing power of rotuer CPE boards
available today, wouldn't have enough processing power to consider it all in
real time, at packet speed.

MESH protocols (not topology, unless you use Cisco's definition :-) has
promise, and I see it on the forefront for further innovation by innovators,
however, it has had promise for the last five years, and is no where near a
solution yet.

Just my 2 cents.

Tom DeReggi
RapidDSL  Wireless, Inc
IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband


- Original Message -
From: Lonnie Nunweiler [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Saturday, February 25, 2006 12:02 AM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Mesh Equipment


Tom, what if you could take the Cell/Sector system and add some
routing that determined when a path had stopped and chose another one.

You have controlled this by your choice of units to make those cross
connections and really all that is happening is that the mesh routing
is constantly testing to see if it needs to try another route.

We used to do this manually and what a pain it was.  This new routing
does what I used to do, except it does not sleep, have bathroom breaks
or go out for lunch.  You can assign weights to connections and force
your chosen route to get used, at least until it goes down, which
hopefully never

RE: [WISPA] Mesh Equipment

[Brad Larson]

BTW, this is what gets lots of people in trouble. Quoting 16-18 mesh nodes
per square mile may be a correct number in AZ or TX. You may need 3 times
that in my neck of the woods here in NE USA. Even more where interference
shrinks cell sizes. Be cautious John. Brad



-Original Message-
From: John J. Thomas [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Saturday, February 25, 2006 2:22 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Mesh Equipment


Yes, unfortunately, the Cisco mesh is only using 5.8 for backhaul right now.
Since they recommend 16-18 mesh boxes per square mile, 5.25 GHz and up would
be a much better choice

John


-Original Message-
From: Jack Unger [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, February 22, 2006 08:41 PM
To: 'WISPA General List'
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Mesh Equipment

Tom,

You make a very good point that 5.3 GHz should be used wherever possible 
while reserving 5.8 for longer-distance backhauling and supercell use. 
We should all be thinking in terms of using 5.3 whenever we can and 
reserving the higher-power 5.8 authorization for those situations where 
we really, really need it.
jack

Tom DeReggi wrote:

 Or realize that everyone in the world is using the precious 5.8Ghz 
 spectrum already for long critical links, that are limited to 5.8Ghz for 
 PtP rule higher SU antenna, or long distance.
 5.3Ghz is an ideal backhaul channel for MESH, up to 7 miles (with 2 ft 
 dish), and avoid the interference headaches.  There is now a HUGE range 
 of spectrum available at 1 watt, the 5.3G and 5.4Ghz newly allocated 
 255Mhzspectrum usable as if this past January.  Design mesh networks to 
 utilize these many channel options, avoid interference, and don't 
 destroy the industry by unnecessisarilly using the precious 5.8Ghz.  In 
 a MESH design its rare to need to go distances longer than 2 miles, all 
 within the realm of possibility with low power 5.3G and 5.4G and Omnis 
 and relatively small panel antennas.
 
 Likewise, reserve the precious 2.4Ghz for the link to consumer, the 
 spectrum supported by their laptops.  I hope to see the industry smart 
 enough to use the new 5.4Ghz for MESH type systems, which is one of the 
 reasons it was allocated for.
 
 One of the most important tasks for WISPs is to conserve the 5.8Ghz 
 spectrum and only use it when needed.  It is in shortage most compared 
 to the other ranges. I had hoped and lobbied hard that half of the 
 5.4Ghz range would be allowed for higher power and PtP rules, but it had 
 not. Its still perfect for mesh and OFDM. Don;t be fooled into believing 
 high power is the secret weapon for mesh, as it is not, LOW power is.  
 Interference and noise is accumulative and travels for miles around 
 corners and obstructions, unlike good RSSI and quality signal.  Get 
 better RSSI in MESH, by Reducing self interference and noise, by using a 
 wider range of channel selections and lower power.  5.3 and 5.4 gives 
 you 350Mhz to select channels from, of equal specification/propertied 
 RF.  Design it into your MESH design.  If you can't transport it in 
 1watt, redesign radio install locations and density.  Every single 
 additional non-inteferring channel selection, drastically logrithmically 
 increases the odds of getting a non-interfering channel selection.  5.4G 
 is the best thinng that happened to MESH. Unfortuneately, worthless for 
 super cell design.  But if MESH embrases 5.4 like it should, it leaves 
 5.8Ghz for Super cell.  Otherwise the MESH designer is destined to fail, 
 because it will become a battle that the Super Cell guy won't be able to 
 give up on until his death, as he has no other option but the range he 
 is using.  The mesh provider has options.
 
 Tom DeReggi
 RapidDSL  Wireless, Inc
 IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband
 
 - Original Message - From: Jack Unger [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
 Sent: Wednesday, February 22, 2006 6:29 PM
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] Mesh Equipment
 
 
 Unless you expect to handle only very low levels of traffic, avoid 
 mesh nodes with only one radio. Choose nodes that have one radio on 
 2.4 GHz for customer connections and one radio on 5.8 GHz for 
 backhauling. In other words, separate the access traffic from the 
 backhaul traffic. Your overall throughput capability will be many 
 times greater.

 jack


 ISPlists wrote:

 Does anyone have a good recommendation on some Mesh equipment.  I 
 have a small town that wants to provide Internet access to the entire 
 town and I'm thinking of using mesh technology.  Any ideas would be 
 great.
  Thanks,
 Steve


 -- 
 Jack Unger ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) - President, Ask-Wi.Com, Inc.
 Serving the License-Free Wireless Industry Since 1993
 Author of the WISP Handbook - Deploying License-Free Wireless WANs
 True Vendor-Neutral WISP Consulting-Training-Troubleshooting
 Phone (VoIP Over Broadband Wireless) 818-227-4220  www.ask-wi.com



 -- 
 WISPA Wireless List: wireless

Re: [WISPA] Mesh Equipment

[Matt Liotta]

Here in Atlanta, Metrocom reported that it took 4 times the average 
number of nodes to provide coverage. Technology has changed a good deal 
since then, but then again they were also using 900Mhz, which has a lot 
more success with our pine trees than 2.4Ghz.


-Matt

Brad Larson wrote:


BTW, this is what gets lots of people in trouble. Quoting 16-18 mesh nodes
per square mile may be a correct number in AZ or TX. You may need 3 times
that in my neck of the woods here in NE USA. Even more where interference
shrinks cell sizes. Be cautious John. Brad



-Original Message-
From: John J. Thomas [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Saturday, February 25, 2006 2:22 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Mesh Equipment


Yes, unfortunately, the Cisco mesh is only using 5.8 for backhaul right now.
Since they recommend 16-18 mesh boxes per square mile, 5.25 GHz and up would
be a much better choice

John


 


-Original Message-
From: Jack Unger [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, February 22, 2006 08:41 PM
To: 'WISPA General List'
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Mesh Equipment

Tom,

You make a very good point that 5.3 GHz should be used wherever possible 
while reserving 5.8 for longer-distance backhauling and supercell use. 
We should all be thinking in terms of using 5.3 whenever we can and 
reserving the higher-power 5.8 authorization for those situations where 
we really, really need it.

  jack

Tom DeReggi wrote:

   

Or realize that everyone in the world is using the precious 5.8Ghz 
spectrum already for long critical links, that are limited to 5.8Ghz for 
PtP rule higher SU antenna, or long distance.
5.3Ghz is an ideal backhaul channel for MESH, up to 7 miles (with 2 ft 
dish), and avoid the interference headaches.  There is now a HUGE range 
of spectrum available at 1 watt, the 5.3G and 5.4Ghz newly allocated 
255Mhzspectrum usable as if this past January.  Design mesh networks to 
utilize these many channel options, avoid interference, and don't 
destroy the industry by unnecessisarilly using the precious 5.8Ghz.  In 
a MESH design its rare to need to go distances longer than 2 miles, all 
within the realm of possibility with low power 5.3G and 5.4G and Omnis 
and relatively small panel antennas.


Likewise, reserve the precious 2.4Ghz for the link to consumer, the 
spectrum supported by their laptops.  I hope to see the industry smart 
enough to use the new 5.4Ghz for MESH type systems, which is one of the 
reasons it was allocated for.


One of the most important tasks for WISPs is to conserve the 5.8Ghz 
spectrum and only use it when needed.  It is in shortage most compared 
to the other ranges. I had hoped and lobbied hard that half of the 
5.4Ghz range would be allowed for higher power and PtP rules, but it had 
not. Its still perfect for mesh and OFDM. Don;t be fooled into believing 
high power is the secret weapon for mesh, as it is not, LOW power is.  
Interference and noise is accumulative and travels for miles around 
corners and obstructions, unlike good RSSI and quality signal.  Get 
better RSSI in MESH, by Reducing self interference and noise, by using a 
wider range of channel selections and lower power.  5.3 and 5.4 gives 
you 350Mhz to select channels from, of equal specification/propertied 
RF.  Design it into your MESH design.  If you can't transport it in 
1watt, redesign radio install locations and density.  Every single 
additional non-inteferring channel selection, drastically logrithmically 
increases the odds of getting a non-interfering channel selection.  5.4G 
is the best thinng that happened to MESH. Unfortuneately, worthless for 
super cell design.  But if MESH embrases 5.4 like it should, it leaves 
5.8Ghz for Super cell.  Otherwise the MESH designer is destined to fail, 
because it will become a battle that the Super Cell guy won't be able to 
give up on until his death, as he has no other option but the range he 
is using.  The mesh provider has options.


Tom DeReggi
RapidDSL  Wireless, Inc
IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband

- Original Message - From: Jack Unger [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Wednesday, February 22, 2006 6:29 PM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Mesh Equipment


 

Unless you expect to handle only very low levels of traffic, avoid 
mesh nodes with only one radio. Choose nodes that have one radio on 
2.4 GHz for customer connections and one radio on 5.8 GHz for 
backhauling. In other words, separate the access traffic from the 
backhaul traffic. Your overall throughput capability will be many 
times greater.


jack


ISPlists wrote:

   

Does anyone have a good recommendation on some Mesh equipment.  I 
have a small town that wants to provide Internet access to the entire 
town and I'm thinking of using mesh technology.  Any ideas would be 
great.

Thanks,
Steve

 


--
Jack Unger ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) - President, Ask-Wi.Com, Inc.
Serving the License-Free

Re: [WISPA] Mesh Equipment

[Lonnie Nunweiler]

OLSR does put its handshaking on the sectors, but you are right, no
data traffic goes down that alternate until the primary fails.  The
changeover is typically within 15 to 30 seconds.

The other cool thing is being able to add ADSL backups into the
system, at various spots (could be T1, cable, etc), and by assigning
weights to them, you can have automatic gateway selection if your
primary goes down.

We have had these backups and alternate paths for years, but we
managed them manually.  It worked but what a pain it was, and things
were frantic while you tried to figure out what went down and then get
in and change routing by hand.  Once things restored we had to go back
in and roll the changes back.

It was cool to be able to do those things, but it is even cooler to
have those same capabilities but not to have to any of the manual
changing.  In this way I do say that smart engineers (OLSR developers)
have coded the thing to be better than a human network techie (me).  I
know networking better than a lot of you guys and I still make
mistakes.  OLSR does not seem to be fooled and I have no hesitation in
saying it is better than I am at routing decisions.

Is it perfect?  Is it the answer for all routing?  NO to both, but it
sure beats the way a lot of people are doing it.

Lonnie

On 2/25/06, Brad Larson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Or how about automatic sector failover that puts no traffic on the network
 when things are working correctly. Brad





 -Original Message-
 From: Lonnie Nunweiler [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Sent: Saturday, February 25, 2006 12:02 AM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] Mesh Equipment


 Tom, what if you could take the Cell/Sector system and add some
 routing that determined when a path had stopped and chose another one.

 You have controlled this by your choice of units to make those cross
 connections and really all that is happening is that the mesh routing
 is constantly testing to see if it needs to try another route.

 We used to do this manually and what a pain it was.  This new routing
 does what I used to do, except it does not sleep, have bathroom breaks
 or go out for lunch.  You can assign weights to connections and force
 your chosen route to get used, at least until it goes down, which
 hopefully never happens, but if and when it does you are covered with
 your alternate path.

 What is so terrible about that?

 Lonnie

 On 2/24/06, Tom DeReggi [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  Brad,
 
   I agree. Our downtown Mesh versus Cell/Sector trials proved exactly that
 Our tests showed that the cities like DC could be better served with
  Cell/Sector models more effectively.
  As a matter of fact, Alvarion product, appeared to be well equiped for
 that
  task.
  I think projects like Phili's will bring a rude awakening. I can't prove
  that, but there is no reason for me to.
  Thats the point of modelling. So you can pre-dict BEFORE you spend.
  Its the Muni's budget to pay for, to find the true answer, not mine.
 
  Tom DeReggi
  RapidDSL  Wireless, Inc
  IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband
 
 
  - Original Message -
  From: Brad Larson [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org
  Sent: Friday, February 24, 2006 2:49 PM
  Subject: RE: [WISPA] Mesh Equipment
 
 
   Tom, IMHO mesh is great for lighting up downtown and city parks etc. but
   it
   has yet to prove itself in a large deployment with 1,000's of customers
 or
   1,000's of nodes deployed. I too have first hand experience backhauling
   several mesh projects and the mesh edge so far has not been easy at all
  Here in Northeast USA 15 mesh nodes per square miles doesn't even come
   close
   to what's needed. I've also found that implementing mesh in major metro
   areas, where there are already 1,000's of wifi access points, shrinks
   coverage models and can turn a well intentioned response to an RFP
   laughable. I believe Philadelphia projects 70k users in 5 years on 3900
   mesh
   nodes backhauled by Canopy. We'll see.
  
   I'd love to see a comparison of our BreezeAccess VL with one mile
 centers
   and our high powered DS11 on the edge in Anytown USA vs mesh. I'm
 working
   on
   a few of my guys to do such a test so stay tuned.
  
   What it comes down to is the fact that Matt may have just the right
   terrain
   and noise floor without the traffic that some of these larger projects
   will
   get hammered with so it works for his company. Mesh is a tool for a
   certain
   job just like other gear. But I don't believe mesh should be construed
 as
   broadband for the masses in any major metro area. Brad
  
  
  
  
   -Original Message-
   From: Tom DeReggi [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
   Sent: Friday, February 24, 2006 2:28 PM
   To: WISPA General List
   Subject: Re: [WISPA] Mesh Equipment
  
  
   Matt,
  
   I think you are misinterpretting my comments. Don't read more in to them
   than are there.
   I am in no way attacking the validity of your

Re: [WISPA] Mesh Equipment

[John J. Thomas]

We are still waiting to deply Cisco mesh, so I can't vouch for it *yet*. We 
will be installing for the City of Gilroy Ca. probably in the next 4 weeks. 
This is currently only a partial deployment, but they plan on lighting the 
whole city. I can tell you that the equipment is expensive -$3500 per mesh box 
but has fantastic specs. It uses a 5.7-8 GHz radio for backhaul and 2.4 GHz for 
access. As soon as I get the testing done, I promise to share numbers

John Thomas


-Original Message-
From: ISPlists [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, February 22, 2006 02:32 PM
To: isp-wireless@isp-wireless.com, ''WISPA General List''
Subject: [WISPA] Mesh Equipment

Does anyone have a good recommendation on some Mesh equipment.  I have a small 
town that wants to provide Internet access to the entire town and I'm thinking 
of using mesh technology.  Any ideas would be great.

Thanks,
Steve


--
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/

Re: [WISPA] Mesh Equipment

[John J. Thomas]

Yes, unfortunately, the Cisco mesh is only using 5.8 for backhaul right now. 
Since they recommend 16-18 mesh boxes per square mile, 5.25 GHz and up would be 
a much better choice

John


-Original Message-
From: Jack Unger [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, February 22, 2006 08:41 PM
To: 'WISPA General List'
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Mesh Equipment

Tom,

You make a very good point that 5.3 GHz should be used wherever possible 
while reserving 5.8 for longer-distance backhauling and supercell use. 
We should all be thinking in terms of using 5.3 whenever we can and 
reserving the higher-power 5.8 authorization for those situations where 
we really, really need it.
jack

Tom DeReggi wrote:

 Or realize that everyone in the world is using the precious 5.8Ghz 
 spectrum already for long critical links, that are limited to 5.8Ghz for 
 PtP rule higher SU antenna, or long distance.
 5.3Ghz is an ideal backhaul channel for MESH, up to 7 miles (with 2 ft 
 dish), and avoid the interference headaches.  There is now a HUGE range 
 of spectrum available at 1 watt, the 5.3G and 5.4Ghz newly allocated 
 255Mhzspectrum usable as if this past January.  Design mesh networks to 
 utilize these many channel options, avoid interference, and don't 
 destroy the industry by unnecessisarilly using the precious 5.8Ghz.  In 
 a MESH design its rare to need to go distances longer than 2 miles, all 
 within the realm of possibility with low power 5.3G and 5.4G and Omnis 
 and relatively small panel antennas.
 
 Likewise, reserve the precious 2.4Ghz for the link to consumer, the 
 spectrum supported by their laptops.  I hope to see the industry smart 
 enough to use the new 5.4Ghz for MESH type systems, which is one of the 
 reasons it was allocated for.
 
 One of the most important tasks for WISPs is to conserve the 5.8Ghz 
 spectrum and only use it when needed.  It is in shortage most compared 
 to the other ranges. I had hoped and lobbied hard that half of the 
 5.4Ghz range would be allowed for higher power and PtP rules, but it had 
 not. Its still perfect for mesh and OFDM. Don;t be fooled into believing 
 high power is the secret weapon for mesh, as it is not, LOW power is.  
 Interference and noise is accumulative and travels for miles around 
 corners and obstructions, unlike good RSSI and quality signal.  Get 
 better RSSI in MESH, by Reducing self interference and noise, by using a 
 wider range of channel selections and lower power.  5.3 and 5.4 gives 
 you 350Mhz to select channels from, of equal specification/propertied 
 RF.  Design it into your MESH design.  If you can't transport it in 
 1watt, redesign radio install locations and density.  Every single 
 additional non-inteferring channel selection, drastically logrithmically 
 increases the odds of getting a non-interfering channel selection.  5.4G 
 is the best thinng that happened to MESH. Unfortuneately, worthless for 
 super cell design.  But if MESH embrases 5.4 like it should, it leaves 
 5.8Ghz for Super cell.  Otherwise the MESH designer is destined to fail, 
 because it will become a battle that the Super Cell guy won't be able to 
 give up on until his death, as he has no other option but the range he 
 is using.  The mesh provider has options.
 
 Tom DeReggi
 RapidDSL  Wireless, Inc
 IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband
 
 - Original Message - From: Jack Unger [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
 Sent: Wednesday, February 22, 2006 6:29 PM
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] Mesh Equipment
 
 
 Unless you expect to handle only very low levels of traffic, avoid 
 mesh nodes with only one radio. Choose nodes that have one radio on 
 2.4 GHz for customer connections and one radio on 5.8 GHz for 
 backhauling. In other words, separate the access traffic from the 
 backhaul traffic. Your overall throughput capability will be many 
 times greater.

 jack


 ISPlists wrote:

 Does anyone have a good recommendation on some Mesh equipment.  I 
 have a small town that wants to provide Internet access to the entire 
 town and I'm thinking of using mesh technology.  Any ideas would be 
 great.
  Thanks,
 Steve


 -- 
 Jack Unger ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) - President, Ask-Wi.Com, Inc.
 Serving the License-Free Wireless Industry Since 1993
 Author of the WISP Handbook - Deploying License-Free Wireless WANs
 True Vendor-Neutral WISP Consulting-Training-Troubleshooting
 Phone (VoIP Over Broadband Wireless) 818-227-4220  www.ask-wi.com



 -- 
 WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

 Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
 http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

 Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ 
 
 

-- 
Jack Unger ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) - President, Ask-Wi.Com, Inc.
Serving the License-Free Wireless Industry Since 1993
Author of the WISP Handbook - Deploying License-Free Wireless WANs
True Vendor-Neutral WISP Consulting-Training-Troubleshooting
Phone (VoIP Over Broadband Wireless) 818-227-4220

Re: [WISPA] Mesh Equipment

[Tom DeReggi]

 capable, but because the engineer has not yet been proven 
capable to program the computer to be more capable.



Discuss muni issues in a non-technical thread.


Wether you recognize it or not, technology has no value if not applied to a 
business case to solve. Technology's applications are well relivent to 
technolgy discussions. I'd argue that one of the big mistakes of technical 
people is they get trapped inside the technology, and design without 
adequately understanding the applications and ultimate goal of using the 
technology.
For example, the task is not to reduce packet loss, its to be able to serve 
consumers more reliably.  There is a big difference between the two.  One 
approach is narrow and one is broad. What often happens, is technical people 
make these beautiful products from a technical point of view, but they are 
worthless because they don't solve the problems that need to be solved for 
its applications, which were the reasons for originally developing the 
technology.  Just my 2 cents.


Tom DeReggi
RapidDSL  Wireless, Inc
IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband


- Original Message - 
From: Matt Liotta [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Friday, February 24, 2006 9:30 AM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Mesh Equipment



Tom DeReggi wrote:

Trie I did not offer any backup data. But use your immagination. Its all 
in one place, easy to check, easy to document, easy to configure, easy to 
backup, etc.

What does mesh offer for better complete central management?

You seem to be suggesting that I simply haven't looked for information to 
back up your argument. Not sure why that makes sense to you. Anyway, I am 
not making arguments based upon information I read somewhere. My company 
operates a very large network that makes use of mesh, star, and ring 
network architectures. Some of it is fiber-based, while other parts are 
wireless. We are a highly technical, but practical company. In other 
words, we do a vast amount of research before doing field trials. After we 
are satisfied that the technical works in the field the way we expect and 
ultimately want, only then do we deploy it. I can make intelligent 
statements in regard to mesh because of this. It doesn't appear you have 
done nearly the research we have and it doesn't appear you have any 
significant mesh deployments. I suggest you field trial the technology in 
a meaningful way before dismissing it.


In regard to your actual question, I would request that you be more 
specific. We manage all of our network devices centrally using SNMP 
regardless if they are mesh or not.



 I think you may be mixing too many arguments.

I may be mixing up typical deployment models using MESH with MESH 
Technology.

It also depends on your definition of MESH.


Cisco defines a mesh network as a communications network having two or 
more paths to any node. I would agree with that definition. How would you 
define mesh?


I admit, I made a generalization of a typical way MESH would be deployed, 
in my arguements.
Deployed at street level, so many short hops were required to get 
coverage and get around NLOS obstacles, in a dense city environment.


That may be true if the mesh didn't have any dedicated backhauls. We using 
P2MP systems to backhaul our mesh, which allows us to limit the number of 
hops of any one particular path.


A network that made its own intelligent routing decissions, that may not 
always be the most intelligent compared to the human mind's decissions.


Meshs don't have to make their own routing decisions. You can statically 
route a mesh if you want to. I don't think I will agree that a human is 
better suited to the job though.


But is that really MESH? Technically you could call any multi-path routed 
network, MESH. I call my network a routed network using triangulation.
But I would not call it MESH. But it very well could be considered 
similar to MESH.


Our industry peers use the term mesh in this context, so it appears quite 
appropriate.


What criteria does your network OS sue to deterine routing changes? 
Measure highest packet loss? measure most amount of available bandwdith? 
Measure least amount of average bandwidth? Measure shortest path? Lowest 
latency? Lowest cost ($) transit or transport provider path? And how many 
can they consider togeather to make the best overall decission?
I'd be interested in hearing more about what you are doing with MPLS in 
your design.


MPLS traffic engineering allows you to use any number of combinations of 
criteria. In fact, Cisco sells whole books on this very subject.


Also understand this is a Wireless list, not a fiber list. The design 
flaws of MESH over fiber (fast packet-loss less links) is a completely 
different animal with different challenges than MESH in Wireless.


I disagree. While there are certainly important differences between fiber 
and wireless, network architecture wish the communication medium is 
generally less important.


I