RE: [WIRELESS-LAN] You knew it was coming...Airplay/Apple TV support for instructors.
From my brief play with one the sleep/wake is an advertisement, and it was easier for me to power cycle it. Thank you, Lee Weers Central College IT Services Assistant Director for Network Services 641-628-7675 Vcard https://www.mcpvirtualbusinesscard.com/VBCServer/LeeWeers/interactivecard Vprofile https://www.mcpvirtualbusinesscard.com/VBCServer/LeeWeers/profile From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv [mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Garry Peirce Sent: Tuesday, July 10, 2012 4:22 PM To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] You knew it was coming...Airplay/Apple TV support for instructors. I apologize for duplicate posting, but it was suggested I rename the subject of my note below so that it fall under this related subject thread. Re: Cisco vlan select method – I note to be discovered by clients, “This means the Apple TV should be forced to announce itself by being put to sleep, and then woken up.”Is this one time occurrence or would a user have to have mgt access to the AppleTV in order to put it to sleep/wake up to be able to discover it? If it’s the advertisement needs this frequent kick, I unfortunately suspect it might be easier to simply power-cycle it. Also, Eric, do you know if the Avahi reflector allows for any level of Bonjour service level filtering? = I’m in support of the collective request to help enable further operational flexibility, although also not sure Apple will feel enough pressure to assist. To the first item: ‘That Apple establish a way for Apple TV's (and other Bonjour/Airplay enabled devices) be accessible across multiple IPv4 and IPv6 sub-nets.” Isn’t this item solved to a degree by wide area DNS-SD? If not, I assume this is left open to solve by either making it use a routable mcast addr or by creating some non-standard solution. Controls will be needed to make sense of all the advertised services and possibly for security/privacy reasons. I would think navigating a large Bonjour enabled subnet for a production service must be an ugly exercise - nevermind if enabled to pass L2 boundaries. Who remembers those IPX service filtering ACLs? Request #2 might soon follow to network vendors to be able to support Bonjour service filtering. For production services, wide area DNS-SD seems a better tool to me, as opposed to using the wild west of zeroconf end device advertisements or some special hardware solution. We’ve trialed it (static entries) for printing and it seems to work well. This leverages our existing DNS infrastructure, allows for control of the advertised entries, and a uniform naming convention making it easier to identify the service. One could also opt to block 224.0.0.251 altogether, if there is concern about unnecessary device traffic. So in tandem to supporting this request, I’d also be interested in anyone’s recap of their wide area DNS-SD (WAB) environment, the services being advertised , how it is scaling, and any major stumbling blocks. From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv [mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU]mailto:[mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Lee H Badman Sent: Monday, July 09, 2012 4:00 PM To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDUmailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Apple Petition Please consider this- as we get to the point where we have an agreed on document, say by this Friday, and we find an online petition site to use where individuals can sign on in whatever form that takes before we close the signing window and present it to Apple- are each one of us able to do so on behalf of our institutions or organizations? If you need to seek permission, now is the time. If a CIO or Director is the only one allowed to make such public-facing declarations on behalf of your school/or org, it would be good to start working the notion. Ideally, no one would overstep their position by jumping on this worthy endeavor. Lee H. Badman Wireless Architect/Network Engineer Information Technology and Services Adjunct Instructor, iSchool Syracuse University 315 443-3003 From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv [mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU]mailto:[mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Andy Voelker Sent: Monday, July 09, 2012 12:44 PM To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDUmailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Apple Petition That confuses me as well. It is obviously built in to many other iOS devices (iPod Touch, iPad) and has been for some time. Why the change? I suspect it just due to the GUI difference. If so, that’s easily fixable. -- Andy Voelker Manager of Student Computing in the Technology Commons WCU Staff Senator Western Carolina University Check the status of your IT requests at any time at http://help.wcu.edu/ ! From: The EDUCAUSE
Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] You knew it was coming...Airplay/Apple TV support for instructors.
Hey guys. I've found more interesting information. This page: http://www.grouplogic.com/Knowledge/PDFUpload/Info/WanBonjour_1.pdf Has some pretty detailed information on creating Unicast DNS Service Discovery for Bonjour on Windows DNS Servers, as well as how to use a MAC to function as a *Basic* Bonjour Proxy (same as Avahi and Aerohive) it's not pretty, and does not have service filtering, but it works. Also, I was on a TAC call with a very knowledgeable TAC engineer. We came up with another corner case that has not been discussed: Cisco H-REAP (Now called Flexconnect) support local switching of the data vlan. (I'm sure other vendors do this as well) Any traffic in that VLAN is replayed on the wireless and vice versa. So if you have have an H-REAP doing local switching, and an Apple TV connected to the same VLAN, theoretically it will pass the multicast traffic WITHOUT enabling Mulitcast on the Central controller. I have not tested this, so take it with a grain of salt. Mike On Tue, Jul 10, 2012 at 4:57 PM, Eric T. Barnett ebarn...@astate.eduwrote: I believe that the data streams are indeed unicast, but if I understand it right, Bonjour uses multicast for the initial setup and discovery. ** ** --Eric ** ** *From:* The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv [mailto: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] *On Behalf Of *Chris Murphy *Sent:* Tuesday, July 10, 2012 3:28 PM *To:* WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU *Subject:* Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] You knew it was coming...Airplay/Apple TV support for instructors. ** ** Eric, ** ** I haven't sniffed the traffic, but I don't see anything that indicates the actual data streams are multicast, and I don't think I'd expect it to be given it's point-to-point. Then again, I'd expect the whole system to be implemented in a rather more sane way, so what do I know... ** ** -Chris ** ** On Jul 10, 2012, at 4:04 PM, Eric T. Barnett wrote: Hi folks, long time lurker here. There’s an update to the deployment guide. I’ve included it. It adds the concept of using an open-source Avahi multicast reflector. It works pretty well once you get it hammered out. It is weird though. The iPhones don’t seem to see the AppleTV near as well as the iPads. However, Mike, either with Multicast VLAN or the reflector, you still have to enable multicast, because if the controller can’t multicast to the AP’s, the multicast data streams for the iStuffs don’t work either. Regards, Eric Barnett Senior Network Engineer/Wireless Administrator Information and Technology Services Arkansas State University (870) 680-4243 http://wireless.astate.edu *From:* The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv [mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] *On Behalf Of *Jeffrey Sessler *Sent:* Monday, July 09, 2012 4:13 PM *To:* WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU *Subject:* Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] You knew it was coming...Airplay/Apple TV support for instructors. I posted this before, but here is the Cisco Apple Bonjour Deployment Guide. It contains a lot of great information as well as a method to allow use of AppleTV access across multiple VLANs using a single Multicast VLAN (part of VLAN select). Jeff On Tuesday, July 03, 2012 at 6:06 AM, in message CANtPpk420_nAraEeOqnC=d6ckj2ujkk+=t5_hsu0q4_jxrc...@mail.gmail.com, Mike King m...@mpking.com wrote: So I have Cisco Wireless, and I've just been asked to make Airplay work in a conference room. We do not have multicast enable (anywhere). Asking for details, I've been told it's only this one conference room. (I someone believe this, as it the only one that has a projector that get's any use) Suggestions for this as a one off? I have idea's one what to do for a campus wide deployment, but that will take me significantly longer to deploy, and my boss is asking me to have this done this week. Right now, we have a single WPA2/enterprise SSID, and the apple TV will most likely be wired (not required) Mike ** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/. ** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/. ** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/. cuwn-apple-bonjour-dg-00.pdf ** ** === Chris Murphy Network Engineer MIT Information Services Technology Room W92-191 77 Massachusetts Avenue Cambridge, MA 02139 ch...@mit.edu ** ** ** Participation and subscription
RE: [WIRELESS-LAN] You knew it was coming...Airplay/Apple TV support for instructors.
That reflector might not be as amazing as I thought. It’s strange, I have been able to mirror my iPad forever, but using the YouTube app, the AppleTV drops me in some random 30 second incremented time (i.e. happened once at 30 seconds, once at 1 minute, once at 2 minutes). Once I turned back on the Multicast VLAN on the controller, it is solid as a rock. As far as I know, Avahi doesn’t have any filtering, but I’ve barely scratched the surface with it. With the reflector on and the Multicast VLAN turned on, my iPad discovered my AppleTV this morning after a slight delay. I didn’t have to touch the AppleTV. I have it hardwired and the sleep settings off, however. --Eric From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv [mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Garry Peirce Sent: Tuesday, July 10, 2012 4:22 PM To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] You knew it was coming...Airplay/Apple TV support for instructors. I apologize for duplicate posting, but it was suggested I rename the subject of my note below so that it fall under this related subject thread. Re: Cisco vlan select method – I note to be discovered by clients, “This means the Apple TV should be forced to announce itself by being put to sleep, and then woken up.”Is this one time occurrence or would a user have to have mgt access to the AppleTV in order to put it to sleep/wake up to be able to discover it? If it’s the advertisement needs this frequent kick, I unfortunately suspect it might be easier to simply power-cycle it. Also, Eric, do you know if the Avahi reflector allows for any level of Bonjour service level filtering? = I’m in support of the collective request to help enable further operational flexibility, although also not sure Apple will feel enough pressure to assist. To the first item: ‘That Apple establish a way for Apple TV's (and other Bonjour/Airplay enabled devices) be accessible across multiple IPv4 and IPv6 sub-nets.” Isn’t this item solved to a degree by wide area DNS-SD? If not, I assume this is left open to solve by either making it use a routable mcast addr or by creating some non-standard solution. Controls will be needed to make sense of all the advertised services and possibly for security/privacy reasons. I would think navigating a large Bonjour enabled subnet for a production service must be an ugly exercise - nevermind if enabled to pass L2 boundaries. Who remembers those IPX service filtering ACLs? Request #2 might soon follow to network vendors to be able to support Bonjour service filtering. For production services, wide area DNS-SD seems a better tool to me, as opposed to using the wild west of zeroconf end device advertisements or some special hardware solution. We’ve trialed it (static entries) for printing and it seems to work well. This leverages our existing DNS infrastructure, allows for control of the advertised entries, and a uniform naming convention making it easier to identify the service. One could also opt to block 224.0.0.251 altogether, if there is concern about unnecessary device traffic. So in tandem to supporting this request, I’d also be interested in anyone’s recap of their wide area DNS-SD (WAB) environment, the services being advertised , how it is scaling, and any major stumbling blocks. From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv [mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU]mailto:[mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Lee H Badman Sent: Monday, July 09, 2012 4:00 PM To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDUmailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Apple Petition Please consider this- as we get to the point where we have an agreed on document, say by this Friday, and we find an online petition site to use where individuals can sign on in whatever form that takes before we close the signing window and present it to Apple- are each one of us able to do so on behalf of our institutions or organizations? If you need to seek permission, now is the time. If a CIO or Director is the only one allowed to make such public-facing declarations on behalf of your school/or org, it would be good to start working the notion. Ideally, no one would overstep their position by jumping on this worthy endeavor. Lee H. Badman Wireless Architect/Network Engineer Information Technology and Services Adjunct Instructor, iSchool Syracuse University 315 443-3003 From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv [mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU]mailto:[mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Andy Voelker Sent: Monday, July 09, 2012 12:44 PM To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDUmailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Apple Petition That confuses me as well. It is obviously built in to many other iOS devices (iPod Touch, iPad) and has been
RE: [WIRELESS-LAN] You knew it was coming...Airplay/Apple TV support for instructors.
I have read this, and as well done of a document that it is, I'd still prefer not to have to adopt a new architecture and pre-share based network for one-off devices as opposed to having those devices work on a standards-based typical WLAN if there is an easier (for everyone) way. I would encourage anyone interested in pressing the Apple with Cisco to also approach their CIOs to gauge their interest/support. At the encouragement of my own CIO who backs the initiative (assuming the petition is well-done and not frivolous), there will be overtures made to the CIO Educause list as well once the petition draft is locked in to final form. Lee H. Badman Wireless/Network Engineer, ITS Adjunct Instructor, iSchool Syracuse University 315.443.3003 From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv [WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] on behalf of Jeffrey Sessler [j...@scrippscollege.edu] Sent: Monday, July 09, 2012 5:13 PM To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] You knew it was coming...Airplay/Apple TV support for instructors. I posted this before, but here is the Cisco Apple Bonjour Deployment Guide. It contains a lot of great information as well as a method to allow use of AppleTV access across multiple VLANs using a single Multicast VLAN (part of VLAN select). Jeff On Tuesday, July 03, 2012 at 6:06 AM, in message CANtPpk420_nAraEeOqnC=d6ckj2ujkk+=t5_hsu0q4_jxrc...@mail.gmail.com, Mike King m...@mpking.com wrote: So I have Cisco Wireless, and I've just been asked to make Airplay work in a conference room. We do not have multicast enable (anywhere). Asking for details, I've been told it's only this one conference room. (I someone believe this, as it the only one that has a projector that get's any use) Suggestions for this as a one off? I have idea's one what to do for a campus wide deployment, but that will take me significantly longer to deploy, and my boss is asking me to have this done this week. Right now, we have a single WPA2/enterprise SSID, and the apple TV will most likely be wired (not required) Mike ** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/. ** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/. ** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/.
Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] You knew it was coming...Airplay/Apple TV support for instructors.
From an administrator's perspective: I unpack the Apple TV, connect it to the wired network and projector, configure it to register with a central directory, give it a name, enable authentication to the enterprise AAA service, and be done. From a end-user's standpoint I'd like to see the following scenario: I walk into a class room/conference room/auditorium, pull out my iPad/Mac Book/iPhone, connect to the wireless network with my user id and password, pull up a list of Airplay devices (possibly with subcategories for buildings), select the Airplay device I want to connect to, Authenticate to the device, and start mirroring my display. Sounds simple, doesn't it. -- Neil Johnson Network Engineer The University of Iowa Phone: 319 384-0938 Fax: 319 335-2951 Mobile: 319 540-2081 E-Mail: neil-john...@uiowa.edu From: Lee H Badman lhbad...@syr.edumailto:lhbad...@syr.edu Reply-To: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDUmailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU Date: Tuesday, July 10, 2012 8:41 AM To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDUmailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDUmailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] You knew it was coming...Airplay/Apple TV support for instructors. I have read this, and as well done of a document that it is, I'd still prefer not to have to adopt a new architecture and pre-share based network for one-off devices as opposed to having those devices work on a standards-based typical WLAN if there is an easier (for everyone) way. I would encourage anyone interested in pressing the Apple with Cisco to also approach their CIOs to gauge their interest/support. At the encouragement of my own CIO who backs the initiative (assuming the petition is well-done and not frivolous), there will be overtures made to the CIO Educause list as well once the petition draft is locked in to final form. Lee H. Badman Wireless/Network Engineer, ITS Adjunct Instructor, iSchool Syracuse University 315.443.3003 From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv [WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDUmailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] on behalf of Jeffrey Sessler [j...@scrippscollege.edumailto:j...@scrippscollege.edu] Sent: Monday, July 09, 2012 5:13 PM To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDUmailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] You knew it was coming...Airplay/Apple TV support for instructors. I posted this before, but here is the Cisco Apple Bonjour Deployment Guide. It contains a lot of great information as well as a method to allow use of AppleTV access across multiple VLANs using a single Multicast VLAN (part of VLAN select). Jeff On Tuesday, July 03, 2012 at 6:06 AM, in message CANtPpk420_nAraEeOqnC=d6ckj2ujkk+=t5_hsu0q4_jxrc...@mail.gmail.commailto:CANtPpk420_nAraEeOqnC=d6ckj2ujkk+=t5_hsu0q4_jxrc...@mail.gmail.com, Mike King m...@mpking.commailto:m...@mpking.com wrote: So I have Cisco Wireless, and I've just been asked to make Airplay work in a conference room. We do not have multicast enable (anywhere). Asking for details, I've been told it's only this one conference room. (I someone believe this, as it the only one that has a projector that get's any use) Suggestions for this as a one off? I have idea's one what to do for a campus wide deployment, but that will take me significantly longer to deploy, and my boss is asking me to have this done this week. Right now, we have a single WPA2/enterprise SSID, and the apple TV will most likely be wired (not required) Mike ** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/. ** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/. ** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/. ** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/.
Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] You knew it was coming...Airplay/Apple TV support for instructors.
Eric, I haven't sniffed the traffic, but I don't see anything that indicates the actual data streams are multicast, and I don't think I'd expect it to be given it's point-to-point. Then again, I'd expect the whole system to be implemented in a rather more sane way, so what do I know... -Chris On Jul 10, 2012, at 4:04 PM, Eric T. Barnett wrote: Hi folks, long time lurker here. There’s an update to the deployment guide. I’ve included it. It adds the concept of using an open-source Avahi multicast reflector. It works pretty well once you get it hammered out. It is weird though. The iPhones don’t seem to see the AppleTV near as well as the iPads. However, Mike, either with Multicast VLAN or the reflector, you still have to enable multicast, because if the controller can’t multicast to the AP’s, the multicast data streams for the iStuffs don’t work either. Regards, Eric Barnett Senior Network Engineer/Wireless Administrator Information and Technology Services Arkansas State University (870) 680-4243 http://wireless.astate.edu From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv [mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Jeffrey Sessler Sent: Monday, July 09, 2012 4:13 PM To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] You knew it was coming...Airplay/Apple TV support for instructors. I posted this before, but here is the Cisco Apple Bonjour Deployment Guide. It contains a lot of great information as well as a method to allow use of AppleTV access across multiple VLANs using a single Multicast VLAN (part of VLAN select). Jeff On Tuesday, July 03, 2012 at 6:06 AM, in message CANtPpk420_nAraEeOqnC=d6ckj2ujkk+=t5_hsu0q4_jxrc...@mail.gmail.com, Mike King m...@mpking.com wrote: So I have Cisco Wireless, and I've just been asked to make Airplay work in a conference room. We do not have multicast enable (anywhere). Asking for details, I've been told it's only this one conference room. (I someone believe this, as it the only one that has a projector that get's any use) Suggestions for this as a one off? I have idea's one what to do for a campus wide deployment, but that will take me significantly longer to deploy, and my boss is asking me to have this done this week. Right now, we have a single WPA2/enterprise SSID, and the apple TV will most likely be wired (not required) Mike ** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group discussion list can be found athttp://www.educause.edu/groups/. ** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group discussion list can be found athttp://www.educause.edu/groups/. ** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group discussion list can be found athttp://www.educause.edu/groups/. cuwn-apple-bonjour-dg-00.pdf === Chris Murphy Network Engineer MIT Information Services Technology Room W92-191 77 Massachusetts Avenue Cambridge, MA 02139 ch...@mit.edu ** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/. smime.p7s Description: S/MIME cryptographic signature
RE: [WIRELESS-LAN] You knew it was coming...Airplay/Apple TV support for instructors.
I believe that the data streams are indeed unicast, but if I understand it right, Bonjour uses multicast for the initial setup and discovery. --Eric From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv [mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Chris Murphy Sent: Tuesday, July 10, 2012 3:28 PM To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] You knew it was coming...Airplay/Apple TV support for instructors. Eric, I haven't sniffed the traffic, but I don't see anything that indicates the actual data streams are multicast, and I don't think I'd expect it to be given it's point-to-point. Then again, I'd expect the whole system to be implemented in a rather more sane way, so what do I know... -Chris On Jul 10, 2012, at 4:04 PM, Eric T. Barnett wrote: Hi folks, long time lurker here. There's an update to the deployment guide. I've included it. It adds the concept of using an open-source Avahi multicast reflector. It works pretty well once you get it hammered out. It is weird though. The iPhones don't seem to see the AppleTV near as well as the iPads. However, Mike, either with Multicast VLAN or the reflector, you still have to enable multicast, because if the controller can't multicast to the AP's, the multicast data streams for the iStuffs don't work either. Regards, Eric Barnett Senior Network Engineer/Wireless Administrator Information and Technology Services Arkansas State University (870) 680-4243 http://wireless.astate.edu From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv [mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU]mailto:[mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Jeffrey Sessler Sent: Monday, July 09, 2012 4:13 PM To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDUmailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] You knew it was coming...Airplay/Apple TV support for instructors. I posted this before, but here is the Cisco Apple Bonjour Deployment Guide. It contains a lot of great information as well as a method to allow use of AppleTV access across multiple VLANs using a single Multicast VLAN (part of VLAN select). Jeff On Tuesday, July 03, 2012 at 6:06 AM, in message CANtPpk420_nAraEeOqnC=d6ckj2ujkk+=t5_hsu0q4_jxrc...@mail.gmail.commailto:CANtPpk420_nAraEeOqnC=d6ckj2ujkk+=t5_hsu0q4_jxrc...@mail.gmail.com, Mike King m...@mpking.commailto:m...@mpking.com wrote: So I have Cisco Wireless, and I've just been asked to make Airplay work in a conference room. We do not have multicast enable (anywhere). Asking for details, I've been told it's only this one conference room. (I someone believe this, as it the only one that has a projector that get's any use) Suggestions for this as a one off? I have idea's one what to do for a campus wide deployment, but that will take me significantly longer to deploy, and my boss is asking me to have this done this week. Right now, we have a single WPA2/enterprise SSID, and the apple TV will most likely be wired (not required) Mike ** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group discussion list can be found athttp://www.educause.edu/groups/. ** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group discussion list can be found athttp://www.educause.edu/groups/. ** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group discussion list can be found athttp://www.educause.edu/groups/. cuwn-apple-bonjour-dg-00.pdf === Chris Murphy Network Engineer MIT Information Services Technology Room W92-191 77 Massachusetts Avenue Cambridge, MA 02139 ch...@mit.edumailto:ch...@mit.edu ** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/. ** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/.
Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] You knew it was coming...Airplay/Apple TV support for instructors.
I apologize for duplicate posting, but it was suggested I rename the subject of my note below so that it fall under this related subject thread. Re: Cisco vlan select method – I note to be discovered by clients, “This means the Apple TV should be forced to announce itself by being put to sleep, and then woken up.”Is this one time occurrence or would a user have to have mgt access to the AppleTV in order to put it to sleep/wake up to be able to discover it? If it’s the advertisement needs this frequent kick, I unfortunately suspect it might be easier to simply power-cycle it. Also, Eric, do you know if the Avahi reflector allows for any level of Bonjour service level filtering? = I’m in support of the collective request to help enable further operational flexibility, although also not sure Apple will feel enough pressure to assist. To the first item: ‘That Apple establish a way for Apple TV's (and other Bonjour/Airplay enabled devices) be accessible across multiple IPv4 and IPv6 sub-nets.” Isn’t this item solved to a degree by wide area DNS-SD? If not, I assume this is left open to solve by either making it use a routable mcast addr or by creating some non-standard solution. Controls will be needed to make sense of all the advertised services and possibly for security/privacy reasons. I would think navigating a large Bonjour enabled subnet for a production service must be an ugly exercise - nevermind if enabled to pass L2 boundaries. Who remembers those IPX service filtering ACLs? Request #2 might soon follow to network vendors to be able to support Bonjour service filtering. For production services, wide area DNS-SD seems a better tool to me, as opposed to using the wild west of zeroconf end device advertisements or some special hardware solution. We’ve trialed it (static entries) for printing and it seems to work well. This leverages our existing DNS infrastructure, allows for control of the advertised entries, and a uniform naming convention making it easier to identify the service. One could also opt to block 224.0.0.251 altogether, if there is concern about unnecessary device traffic. So in tandem to supporting this request, I’d also be interested in anyone’s recap of their wide area DNS-SD (WAB) environment, the services being advertised , how it is scaling, and any major stumbling blocks. From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv [mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Lee H Badman Sent: Monday, July 09, 2012 4:00 PM To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Apple Petition Please consider this- as we get to the point where we have an agreed on document, say by this Friday, and we find an online petition site to use where individuals can sign on in whatever form that takes before we close the signing window and present it to Apple- are each one of us able to do so on behalf of our institutions or organizations? If you need to seek permission, now is the time. If a CIO or Director is the only one allowed to make such public-facing declarations on behalf of your school/or org, it would be good to start working the notion. Ideally, no one would overstep their position by jumping on this worthy endeavor. Lee H. Badman Wireless Architect/Network Engineer Information Technology and Services Adjunct Instructor, iSchool Syracuse University 315 443-3003 From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv [mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Andy Voelker Sent: Monday, July 09, 2012 12:44 PM To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Apple Petition That confuses me as well. It is obviously built in to many other iOS devices (iPod Touch, iPad) and has been for some time. Why the change? I suspect it just due to the GUI difference. If so, that’s easily fixable. -- Andy Voelker Manager of Student Computing in the Technology Commons WCU Staff Senator Western Carolina University Check the status of your IT requests at any time at http://help.wcu.edu/ ! From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv [mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Voll, Toivo Sent: Friday, July 06, 2012 1:28 PM To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Apple Petition Also, for me, the lack of support for WPA2-Enterprise is a head-scratcher. If they go through the trouble of supporting the rest of the encryption schemes, and obviously support it on a bunch of their other products, why randomly leave it out of some products? I’d prioritize that a bit more, personally. -- Toivo Voll Network Engineer Information Technology Communications University of South Florida ** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group discussion list can be found at
Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Apple Petition (Was Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] You knew it was coming...Airplay/Apple TV support for instructors.)
Thanks Curtis, missed the earlier amendment. Thanks, Bruce T. Johnson | Network Engineer | Partners Healthcare 617.726.9662 | Pager: 31633 | bjohns...@partners.org 149 13th Street, 10th Floor, Mailstop 10055B, Charlestown, Ma 02129 -Original Message- From: Curtis K. Larsen [curtis.k.lar...@utah.edu] Received: Thursday, 05 Jul 2012, 5:02pm To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU [WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Apple Petition (Was Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] You knew it was coming...Airplay/Apple TV support for instructors.) You should add fast-roaming to the list. No Mac or iOS device supports fast roaming with Opportunistic Key Caching. They can do PMK Sticky, but it is not the same as OKC. With Sticky, it is only fast when you roam back to an AP you've been on, and the client can only cache up to 8 AP's. Curtis Larsen Wireless Network Engineer University of Utah 801-587-1313 On 07/05/2012 02:46 PM, Lee H Badman wrote: Pretty much what I was thinking (ballpark) with all Educause schools individually signed on. May not amount to anything, but would in itself be media fodder. Lee H. Badman Wireless/Network Engineer, ITS Adjunct Instructor, iSchool Syracuse University 315.443.3003 From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv [WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] on behalf of Johnson, Neil M [neil-john...@uiowa.edu] Sent: Thursday, July 05, 2012 3:37 PM To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU Subject: [WIRELESS-LAN] Apple Petition (Was Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] You knew it was coming...Airplay/Apple TV support for instructors.) I'm a little fuzzy on the specifics things to request from Apple, but here is a first pass): Whereas, we the undersigned academic and research institutions are receiving numerous requests from our faculty, staff, and students for the ability to utilize Airplay technology in classrooms, conference rooms, and other locations, hereby solemnly request that Apple provide support for Airplay technology in enterprise wireless networks. Specifically, we request the following (in order of priority): * That Apple establish a way for the Apple TV (and other Airplay enabled devices) to be discoverable across multiple IPv4 and IPv6 subnets or lacking that: * That Apple establish a way for the Apple TV (and other Airplay enabled devices) to be easily statically configured to be accessible across multiple IPv4 and IPv6 subnets * That the Apple TV support Enterprise Wireless Encryption and Authentication (WPA2-Enterprise) * That authentication to the Apple TV be able to utilize enterprise authentication services (LDAP and/or AD) Failure to provide this support severely limits the usefulness (and desirability) of Apple products in our institutions. At your earliest convenience please provide us with a roadmap for support of Airplay and related technologies in enterprise wireless environments. Thank you. -- Neil Johnson Network Engineer The University of Iowa Phone: 319 384-0938 Fax: 319 335-2951 Mobile: 319 540-2081 E-Mail: neil-john...@uiowa.edu From:Watters, Johnjohn.watt...@ua.edumailto:john.watt...@ua.edu Reply-To: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group ListservWIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDUmailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU Date: Thursday, July 5, 2012 2:23 PM To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDUmailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDUWIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDUmailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] You knew it was coming...Airplay/Apple TV support for instructors. Whereas, we the undersigned academic and research institutions are receiving numerous requests from our faculty, staff, and students for the ability to utilize Airplay technology in classrooms, conference rooms, and other locations, here by solemnly request that Apple provide support or Airplay technology in enterprise wireless networks. Failure to provide this support severely limits the usefulness (and desirability) of Apple products in our institutions. At your earliest convenience please provide us with a roadmap for support of Airplay and related technologies in enterprise wireless environments. Thank you. ** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/. ** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/. ** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/. The information in this e-mail is intended only for the person to whom it is addressed. If you believe this e-mail was sent to you in error and the e-mail contains patient
Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Apple Petition (Was Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] You knew it was coming...Airplay/Apple TV support for instructors.)
I know we have moved on to just talking about the petition but here is a response from an Apple engineer regarding the original issue. John, Please don't post my name directly to the list, but any AppleCare case numbers and RADAR feature request numbers would be helpful. As I am sure many are aware, to allow an iPad to talk to an Apple TV for AirPlay it must communicate directly, we would use AirPlay, which uses Bonjour. If anyone was looking for more management control over Bonjour traffic and services they absolutely could look at offerings from Aruba, Aerohive, Xirrus and even Cisco. Looking at the currently available options (like this one http://www.aerohive.com/pdfs/Aerohive-Solution_Brief-Bonjour_Gateway.pdf ), I would be happy to facilitate feature requests going forward! John Kaftan IT Infrastructure Manager Utica College 315.792.3102 http://www.facebook.com/home.php#!/pages/Utica-College-Infrastructure/17598 9122467327 Description: facebook https://twitter.com/#!/UticaNet Description: twitter http://www.youtube.com/user/UticaNET Description: Description: \\tsclient\C\youtube.png From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv [mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@listserv.educause.edu] On Behalf Of Johnson, Neil M Sent: Monday, July 09, 2012 11:08 AM To: WIRELESS-LAN@listserv.educause.edu Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Apple Petition First, I'm not beholden to the text of the petition. If someone has suggestions for improving it, or re-writing it. I'm listening. Second, What would be the best way to collect official signatures to the petition ? Thrid, should we be engaging EDUCAUSE to see if they would publish an official press-release ? Thanks. -Neil -- Neil Johnson Network Engineer The University of Iowa Phone: 319 384-0938 Fax: 319 335-2951 Mobile: 319 540-2081 E-Mail: neil-john...@uiowa.edu From: Kellogg, Brian D. bkell...@sbu.edu Reply-To: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU Date: Monday, July 9, 2012 9:33 AM To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Apple Petition Nice and thank you From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv [mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Lee H Badman Sent: Monday, July 09, 2012 10:31 AM To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU Subject: Re: Apple Petition Looking better. If we can get this to gel, and to the point where the majority of the schools sign on in a form that we can each present to our Apple reps (or however it gets to Apple), I have clearance to cover it for Network Computing Magazine for a bit of press. -Lee Lee H. Badman Wireless/Network Engineer Information Technology and Services Adjunct Instructor, iSchool Syracuse University 315 443-3003 From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv [mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU]On Behalf Of Johnson, Neil M Sent: Monday, July 09, 2012 10:16 AM To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Apple Petition How does this sound for an update (The latest is posted on the Facebook site): We the undersigned academic and research institutions hereby solemnly request that Apple provide support for Bonjour/Airplay technology in enterprise networks. With an Apple client device penetration of 50% or more on the typical campus, this amounts to thousands of Apple client devices whose owners desire to use their Apple TV and other Bonjour/Airplay based devices in classrooms, conference rooms, and in other locations on standards-based, enterprise-secure networks. Specifically, we request the following (in order of priority): * That Apple establish a way for Apple TV's (and other Bonjour/Airplay enabled devices) be accessible across multiple IPv4 and IPv6 sub-nets. * That the Apple TV support Enterprise Wireless Encryption and Authentication (WPA2-Enterprise). * That authentication to the Apple TV be able to utilize enterprise Authentication, Authorization, and Accounting (AAA) services. Any enterprise Bonjour/Airplay solution needs to meet the following criteria: * It must scale to 100's-1000's of Bonjour/Airplay enabled devices. * It must work with wired and wireless networks from different vendors. * It must not significantly negatively impact network traffic (wired and wireless). * It must be easily manageable at scale. * If it requires a separate hardware solution, that the solution must be enterprise grade (rack mountable, dual power supplies, etc.) * It must be provided at a reasonable cost Failure to provide this support severely limits the usefulness (and desirability) of Apple products in our institutions. At your earliest convenience please provide us with a road map for
RE: Apple Petition (Was Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] You knew it was coming...Airplay/Apple TV support for instructors.)
This makes one wonder if Apple has much enterprise experience to pull from in their ranks. We're well aware of the other ways of supporting this, but it is usually at added cost to the institution. I'm grateful for other vendors who pick up Apple's slack and can make some money doing it, but it is my hope that Apple will start to seriously address the Enterprise at some point. Other solutions are after the fact and always catching up it seems. I would argue a more holistic and integrated offering to the Enterprise would serve Apple far better than the current perceived patchwork third party approach. Perhaps this is where they need to take some notes from MS and get third parties that better cater to the Enterprise intimately involved from the start. Brian From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv [mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of John Kaftan Sent: Monday, July 09, 2012 11:43 AM To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU Subject: Re: Apple Petition (Was Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] You knew it was coming...Airplay/Apple TV support for instructors.) I know we have moved on to just talking about the petition but here is a response from an Apple engineer regarding the original issue. John, Please don't post my name directly to the list, but any AppleCare case numbers and RADAR feature request numbers would be helpful. As I am sure many are aware, to allow an iPad to talk to an Apple TV for AirPlay it must communicate directly, we would use AirPlay, which uses Bonjour. If anyone was looking for more management control over Bonjour traffic and services they absolutely could look at offerings from Aruba, Aerohive, Xirrus and even Cisco. Looking at the currently available options (like this onehttp://www.aerohive.com/pdfs/Aerohive-Solution_Brief-Bonjour_Gateway.pdf), I would be happy to facilitate feature requests going forward! John Kaftan IT Infrastructure Manager Utica College 315.792.3102 [cid:image001.png@01CD5DC9.3D61C640]http://www.facebook.com/home.php#!/pages/Utica-College-Infrastructure/175989122467327[cid:image002.png@01CD5DC9.3D61C640]https://twitter.com/#!/UticaNet[cid:image003.png@01CD5DC9.3D61C640]http://www.youtube.com/user/UticaNET From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv [mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@listserv.educause.edu]mailto:[mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@listserv.educause.edu] On Behalf Of Johnson, Neil M Sent: Monday, July 09, 2012 11:08 AM To: WIRELESS-LAN@listserv.educause.edumailto:WIRELESS-LAN@listserv.educause.edu Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Apple Petition First, I'm not beholden to the text of the petition. If someone has suggestions for improving it, or re-writing it. I'm listening. Second, What would be the best way to collect official signatures to the petition ? Thrid, should we be engaging EDUCAUSE to see if they would publish an official press-release ? Thanks. -Neil -- Neil Johnson Network Engineer The University of Iowa Phone: 319 384-0938 Fax: 319 335-2951 Mobile: 319 540-2081 E-Mail: neil-john...@uiowa.edumailto:neil-john...@uiowa.edu From: Kellogg, Brian D. bkell...@sbu.edumailto:bkell...@sbu.edu Reply-To: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDUmailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU Date: Monday, July 9, 2012 9:33 AM To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDUmailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDUmailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Apple Petition Nice and thank you From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv [mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Lee H Badman Sent: Monday, July 09, 2012 10:31 AM To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDUmailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU Subject: Re: Apple Petition Looking better. If we can get this to gel, and to the point where the majority of the schools sign on in a form that we can each present to our Apple reps (or however it gets to Apple), I have clearance to cover it for Network Computing Magazine for a bit of press. -Lee Lee H. Badman Wireless/Network Engineer Information Technology and Services Adjunct Instructor, iSchool Syracuse University 315 443-3003 From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv [mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU]mailto:[mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU]On Behalf Of Johnson, Neil M Sent: Monday, July 09, 2012 10:16 AM To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDUmailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Apple Petition How does this sound for an update (The latest is posted on the Facebook site): We the undersigned academic and research institutions hereby solemnly request that Apple provide support for Bonjour/Airplay technology in enterprise networks. With an Apple client device penetration of 50% or more on the typical campus, this amounts
Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Apple Petition (Was Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] You knew it was coming...Airplay/Apple TV support for instructors.)
One more thing. I think use of an online petition tool might help things out organizationally. http://www.change.org/petition there are others, that was the first Google result. Mike On Thu, Jul 5, 2012 at 5:12 PM, Lee H Badman lhbad...@syr.edu wrote: So... two thoughts. Perhaps give it another week for people to chime in with their gripes and let the list discuss them? Then perhaps digital signatures- DocuSign is free and elegant. I guess also, a courtesy inquiry to Phillipe over whether he sees this as prudent list of the group is probably in order. Say, Phillipe- do you see this as prudent use of the list? Thanks, Lee Lee H. Badman Wireless/Network Engineer, ITS Adjunct Instructor, iSchool Syracuse University 315.443.3003 From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv [ WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] on behalf of Curtis K. Larsen [ curtis.k.lar...@utah.edu] Sent: Thursday, July 05, 2012 5:01 PM To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Apple Petition (Was Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] You knew it was coming...Airplay/Apple TV support for instructors.) You should add fast-roaming to the list. No Mac or iOS device supports fast roaming with Opportunistic Key Caching. They can do PMK Sticky, but it is not the same as OKC. With Sticky, it is only fast when you roam back to an AP you've been on, and the client can only cache up to 8 AP's. Curtis Larsen Wireless Network Engineer University of Utah 801-587-1313 On 07/05/2012 02:46 PM, Lee H Badman wrote: Pretty much what I was thinking (ballpark) with all Educause schools individually signed on. May not amount to anything, but would in itself be media fodder. Lee H. Badman Wireless/Network Engineer, ITS Adjunct Instructor, iSchool Syracuse University 315.443.3003 From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv [ WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] on behalf of Johnson, Neil M [ neil-john...@uiowa.edu] Sent: Thursday, July 05, 2012 3:37 PM To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU Subject: [WIRELESS-LAN] Apple Petition (Was Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] You knew it was coming...Airplay/Apple TV support for instructors.) I'm a little fuzzy on the specifics things to request from Apple, but here is a first pass): Whereas, we the undersigned academic and research institutions are receiving numerous requests from our faculty, staff, and students for the ability to utilize Airplay technology in classrooms, conference rooms, and other locations, hereby solemnly request that Apple provide support for Airplay technology in enterprise wireless networks. Specifically, we request the following (in order of priority): * That Apple establish a way for the Apple TV (and other Airplay enabled devices) to be discoverable across multiple IPv4 and IPv6 subnets or lacking that: * That Apple establish a way for the Apple TV (and other Airplay enabled devices) to be easily statically configured to be accessible across multiple IPv4 and IPv6 subnets * That the Apple TV support Enterprise Wireless Encryption and Authentication (WPA2-Enterprise) * That authentication to the Apple TV be able to utilize enterprise authentication services (LDAP and/or AD) Failure to provide this support severely limits the usefulness (and desirability) of Apple products in our institutions. At your earliest convenience please provide us with a roadmap for support of Airplay and related technologies in enterprise wireless environments. Thank you. -- Neil Johnson Network Engineer The University of Iowa Phone: 319 384-0938 Fax: 319 335-2951 Mobile: 319 540-2081 E-Mail: neil-john...@uiowa.edu From:Watters, Johnjohn.watt...@ua.edumailto:john.watt...@ua.edu Reply-To: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDUmailto: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU Date: Thursday, July 5, 2012 2:23 PM To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDUmailto: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDUWIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] You knew it was coming...Airplay/Apple TV support for instructors. Whereas, we the undersigned academic and research institutions are receiving numerous requests from our faculty, staff, and students for the ability to utilize Airplay technology in classrooms, conference rooms, and other locations, here by solemnly request that Apple provide support or Airplay technology in enterprise wireless networks. Failure to provide this support severely limits the usefulness (and desirability) of Apple products in our institutions. At your earliest convenience please provide us with a roadmap for support of Airplay and related technologies in enterprise
RE: [WIRELESS-LAN] Apple Petition (Was Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] You knew it was coming...Airplay/Apple TV support for instructors.)
This has worked at least once before on Apple. http://www.change.org/petitions/apple-protect-workers-making-iphones-in-chinese-factories-3 According to the petition over 250,000 signed on to the appeal for change From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv [mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Mike King Sent: Friday, July 06, 2012 6:47 AM To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Apple Petition (Was Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] You knew it was coming...Airplay/Apple TV support for instructors.) One more thing. I think use of an online petition tool might help things out organizationally. http://www.change.org/petition there are others, that was the first Google result. Mike On Thu, Jul 5, 2012 at 5:12 PM, Lee H Badman lhbad...@syr.edumailto:lhbad...@syr.edu wrote: So... two thoughts. Perhaps give it another week for people to chime in with their gripes and let the list discuss them? Then perhaps digital signatures- DocuSign is free and elegant. I guess also, a courtesy inquiry to Phillipe over whether he sees this as prudent list of the group is probably in order. Say, Phillipe- do you see this as prudent use of the list? Thanks, Lee Lee H. Badman Wireless/Network Engineer, ITS Adjunct Instructor, iSchool Syracuse University 315.443.3003tel:315.443.3003 From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv [WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDUmailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] on behalf of Curtis K. Larsen [curtis.k.lar...@utah.edumailto:curtis.k.lar...@utah.edu] Sent: Thursday, July 05, 2012 5:01 PM To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDUmailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Apple Petition (Was Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] You knew it was coming...Airplay/Apple TV support for instructors.) You should add fast-roaming to the list. No Mac or iOS device supports fast roaming with Opportunistic Key Caching. They can do PMK Sticky, but it is not the same as OKC. With Sticky, it is only fast when you roam back to an AP you've been on, and the client can only cache up to 8 AP's. Curtis Larsen Wireless Network Engineer University of Utah 801-587-1313tel:801-587-1313 On 07/05/2012 02:46 PM, Lee H Badman wrote: Pretty much what I was thinking (ballpark) with all Educause schools individually signed on. May not amount to anything, but would in itself be media fodder. Lee H. Badman Wireless/Network Engineer, ITS Adjunct Instructor, iSchool Syracuse University 315.443.3003tel:315.443.3003 From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv [WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDUmailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] on behalf of Johnson, Neil M [neil-john...@uiowa.edumailto:neil-john...@uiowa.edu] Sent: Thursday, July 05, 2012 3:37 PM To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDUmailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU Subject: [WIRELESS-LAN] Apple Petition (Was Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] You knew it was coming...Airplay/Apple TV support for instructors.) I'm a little fuzzy on the specifics things to request from Apple, but here is a first pass): Whereas, we the undersigned academic and research institutions are receiving numerous requests from our faculty, staff, and students for the ability to utilize Airplay technology in classrooms, conference rooms, and other locations, hereby solemnly request that Apple provide support for Airplay technology in enterprise wireless networks. Specifically, we request the following (in order of priority): * That Apple establish a way for the Apple TV (and other Airplay enabled devices) to be discoverable across multiple IPv4 and IPv6 subnets or lacking that: * That Apple establish a way for the Apple TV (and other Airplay enabled devices) to be easily statically configured to be accessible across multiple IPv4 and IPv6 subnets * That the Apple TV support Enterprise Wireless Encryption and Authentication (WPA2-Enterprise) * That authentication to the Apple TV be able to utilize enterprise authentication services (LDAP and/or AD) Failure to provide this support severely limits the usefulness (and desirability) of Apple products in our institutions. At your earliest convenience please provide us with a roadmap for support of Airplay and related technologies in enterprise wireless environments. Thank you. -- Neil Johnson Network Engineer The University of Iowa Phone: 319 384-0938tel:319%20384-0938 Fax: 319 335-2951tel:319%20335-2951 Mobile: 319 540-2081tel:319%20540-2081 E-Mail: neil-john...@uiowa.edumailto:neil-john...@uiowa.edu From:Watters, Johnjohn.watt...@ua.edumailto:john.watt...@ua.edumailto:john.watt...@ua.edumailto:john.watt...@ua.edu Reply-To: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group ListservWIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDUmailto:WIRELESS-LAN
RE: Apple Petition (Was Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] You knew it was coming...Airplay/Apple TV support for instructors.)
I agree although I expect nothing will come of it. Their stock price is far too high for them to be bothered with concern. I wish I could be more of an optimist sometimes. Brian From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv [mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Bruce Boardman Sent: Friday, July 06, 2012 9:25 AM To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU Subject: Re: Apple Petition (Was Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] You knew it was coming...Airplay/Apple TV support for instructors.) I think it's a good idea to reach out to Apple, even if ignored, for two reasons, so they know it's comming, and so they know it's important and not just a group of loud mouth limes. |Bruce Boardman, Network Engineer, Syracuse University - 315 889-1667 From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv [WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] on behalf of Mike King [m...@mpking.com] Sent: Friday, July 06, 2012 7:47 AM To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDUmailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Apple Petition (Was Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] You knew it was coming...Airplay/Apple TV support for instructors.) One more thing. I think use of an online petition tool might help things out organizationally. http://www.change.org/petition there are others, that was the first Google result. Mike On Thu, Jul 5, 2012 at 5:12 PM, Lee H Badman lhbad...@syr.edumailto:lhbad...@syr.edu wrote: So... two thoughts. Perhaps give it another week for people to chime in with their gripes and let the list discuss them? Then perhaps digital signatures- DocuSign is free and elegant. I guess also, a courtesy inquiry to Phillipe over whether he sees this as prudent list of the group is probably in order. Say, Phillipe- do you see this as prudent use of the list? Thanks, Lee Lee H. Badman Wireless/Network Engineer, ITS Adjunct Instructor, iSchool Syracuse University 315.443.3003tel:315.443.3003 From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv [WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDUmailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] on behalf of Curtis K. Larsen [curtis.k.lar...@utah.edumailto:curtis.k.lar...@utah.edu] Sent: Thursday, July 05, 2012 5:01 PM To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDUmailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Apple Petition (Was Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] You knew it was coming...Airplay/Apple TV support for instructors.) You should add fast-roaming to the list. No Mac or iOS device supports fast roaming with Opportunistic Key Caching. They can do PMK Sticky, but it is not the same as OKC. With Sticky, it is only fast when you roam back to an AP you've been on, and the client can only cache up to 8 AP's. Curtis Larsen Wireless Network Engineer University of Utah 801-587-1313tel:801-587-1313 On 07/05/2012 02:46 PM, Lee H Badman wrote: Pretty much what I was thinking (ballpark) with all Educause schools individually signed on. May not amount to anything, but would in itself be media fodder. Lee H. Badman Wireless/Network Engineer, ITS Adjunct Instructor, iSchool Syracuse University 315.443.3003tel:315.443.3003 From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv [WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDUmailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] on behalf of Johnson, Neil M [neil-john...@uiowa.edumailto:neil-john...@uiowa.edu] Sent: Thursday, July 05, 2012 3:37 PM To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDUmailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU Subject: [WIRELESS-LAN] Apple Petition (Was Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] You knew it was coming...Airplay/Apple TV support for instructors.) I'm a little fuzzy on the specifics things to request from Apple, but here is a first pass): Whereas, we the undersigned academic and research institutions are receiving numerous requests from our faculty, staff, and students for the ability to utilize Airplay technology in classrooms, conference rooms, and other locations, hereby solemnly request that Apple provide support for Airplay technology in enterprise wireless networks. Specifically, we request the following (in order of priority): * That Apple establish a way for the Apple TV (and other Airplay enabled devices) to be discoverable across multiple IPv4 and IPv6 subnets or lacking that: * That Apple establish a way for the Apple TV (and other Airplay enabled devices) to be easily statically configured to be accessible across multiple IPv4 and IPv6 subnets * That the Apple TV support Enterprise Wireless Encryption and Authentication (WPA2-Enterprise) * That authentication to the Apple TV be able to utilize enterprise authentication services (LDAP and/or AD) Failure to provide this support severely limits the usefulness (and desirability) of Apple products in our institutions. At your earliest
Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Apple Petition (Was Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] You knew it was coming...Airplay/Apple TV support for instructors.)
Thank you Lee. I definitely believe that it is a great use of the list...A request made by Academia and for Academia Let me add: Even as an Apple shareholder, (no conflict of interest, more of a vested interest in the matter ;-), I believe that it is way past our time to voice our opinion strongly. We cannot continue to create ugly hacks to support those enterprise non-friendly protocols. I love my Apple TV and can imagine that students and faculty feel the same. I would like to support these cool devices on campus, but how? (and without destroying my Wi-Fi!) The local Student Apple representative on our campus asked me if he could bring up an Apple Airport Extreme on campus to show the features of Airplay to students... (I almost lost it ;-). In a cense, we don't need to be too detailed in our request it could be: Apple! help use support AirPlay on our campus networks Just to start a dialog (and add a few specifics) Should we start with a petition, as you all suggested, and if we get no response, we try the FaceBook approach (create a group). Or immediately go the FB way? I agree with the maturity process of a week. Philippe Univ. of TN On Jul 5, 2012, at 5:12 PM, Lee H Badman wrote: So... two thoughts. Perhaps give it another week for people to chime in with their gripes and let the list discuss them? Then perhaps digital signatures- DocuSign is free and elegant. I guess also, a courtesy inquiry to Phillipe over whether he sees this as prudent list of the group is probably in order. Say, Phillipe- do you see this as prudent use of the list? Thanks, Lee Lee H. Badman Wireless/Network Engineer, ITS Adjunct Instructor, iSchool Syracuse University 315.443.3003 From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv [WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] on behalf of Curtis K. Larsen [curtis.k.lar...@utah.edu] Sent: Thursday, July 05, 2012 5:01 PM To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Apple Petition (Was Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] You knew it was coming...Airplay/Apple TV support for instructors.) You should add fast-roaming to the list. No Mac or iOS device supports fast roaming with Opportunistic Key Caching. They can do PMK Sticky, but it is not the same as OKC. With Sticky, it is only fast when you roam back to an AP you've been on, and the client can only cache up to 8 AP's. Curtis Larsen Wireless Network Engineer University of Utah 801-587-1313 On 07/05/2012 02:46 PM, Lee H Badman wrote: Pretty much what I was thinking (ballpark) with all Educause schools individually signed on. May not amount to anything, but would in itself be media fodder. Lee H. Badman Wireless/Network Engineer, ITS Adjunct Instructor, iSchool Syracuse University 315.443.3003 From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv [WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] on behalf of Johnson, Neil M [neil-john...@uiowa.edu] Sent: Thursday, July 05, 2012 3:37 PM To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU Subject: [WIRELESS-LAN] Apple Petition (Was Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] You knew it was coming...Airplay/Apple TV support for instructors.) I'm a little fuzzy on the specifics things to request from Apple, but here is a first pass): Whereas, we the undersigned academic and research institutions are receiving numerous requests from our faculty, staff, and students for the ability to utilize Airplay technology in classrooms, conference rooms, and other locations, hereby solemnly request that Apple provide support for Airplay technology in enterprise wireless networks. Specifically, we request the following (in order of priority): * That Apple establish a way for the Apple TV (and other Airplay enabled devices) to be discoverable across multiple IPv4 and IPv6 subnets or lacking that: * That Apple establish a way for the Apple TV (and other Airplay enabled devices) to be easily statically configured to be accessible across multiple IPv4 and IPv6 subnets * That the Apple TV support Enterprise Wireless Encryption and Authentication (WPA2-Enterprise) * That authentication to the Apple TV be able to utilize enterprise authentication services (LDAP and/or AD) Failure to provide this support severely limits the usefulness (and desirability) of Apple products in our institutions. At your earliest convenience please provide us with a roadmap for support of Airplay and related technologies in enterprise wireless environments. Thank you. -- Neil Johnson Network Engineer The University of Iowa Phone: 319 384-0938 Fax: 319 335-2951 Mobile: 319 540-2081 E-Mail: neil-john...@uiowa.edu From:Watters, Johnjohn.watt...@ua.edumailto:john.watt...@ua.edu Reply-To: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group ListservWIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDUmailto:WIRELESS-LAN
RE: [WIRELESS-LAN] Apple Petition (Was Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] You knew it was coming...Airplay/Apple TV support for instructors.)
Lets do both, petition that points to the FB page, that way it will be easier for Apple to circulate our concerns within apple., amaybe we get some enterprise particpation. |Bruce Boardman, Network Engineer, Syracuse University - 315 889-1667 From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv [WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] on behalf of Hanset, Philippe C [phan...@utk.edu] Sent: Friday, July 06, 2012 10:00 AM To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Apple Petition (Was Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] You knew it was coming...Airplay/Apple TV support for instructors.) Thank you Lee. I definitely believe that it is a great use of the list...A request made by Academia and for Academia Let me add: Even as an Apple shareholder, (no conflict of interest, more of a vested interest in the matter ;-), I believe that it is way past our time to voice our opinion strongly. We cannot continue to create ugly hacks to support those enterprise non-friendly protocols. I love my Apple TV and can imagine that students and faculty feel the same. I would like to support these cool devices on campus, but how? (and without destroying my Wi-Fi!) The local Student Apple representative on our campus asked me if he could bring up an Apple Airport Extreme on campus to show the features of Airplay to students... (I almost lost it ;-). In a cense, we don't need to be too detailed in our request it could be: Apple! help use support AirPlay on our campus networks Just to start a dialog (and add a few specifics) Should we start with a petition, as you all suggested, and if we get no response, we try the FaceBook approach (create a group). Or immediately go the FB way? I agree with the maturity process of a week. Philippe Univ. of TN On Jul 5, 2012, at 5:12 PM, Lee H Badman wrote: So... two thoughts. Perhaps give it another week for people to chime in with their gripes and let the list discuss them? Then perhaps digital signatures- DocuSign is free and elegant. I guess also, a courtesy inquiry to Phillipe over whether he sees this as prudent list of the group is probably in order. Say, Phillipe- do you see this as prudent use of the list? Thanks, Lee Lee H. Badman Wireless/Network Engineer, ITS Adjunct Instructor, iSchool Syracuse University 315.443.3003 From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv [WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] on behalf of Curtis K. Larsen [curtis.k.lar...@utah.edu] Sent: Thursday, July 05, 2012 5:01 PM To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Apple Petition (Was Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] You knew it was coming...Airplay/Apple TV support for instructors.) You should add fast-roaming to the list. No Mac or iOS device supports fast roaming with Opportunistic Key Caching. They can do PMK Sticky, but it is not the same as OKC. With Sticky, it is only fast when you roam back to an AP you've been on, and the client can only cache up to 8 AP's. Curtis Larsen Wireless Network Engineer University of Utah 801-587-1313 On 07/05/2012 02:46 PM, Lee H Badman wrote: Pretty much what I was thinking (ballpark) with all Educause schools individually signed on. May not amount to anything, but would in itself be media fodder. Lee H. Badman Wireless/Network Engineer, ITS Adjunct Instructor, iSchool Syracuse University 315.443.3003 From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv [WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] on behalf of Johnson, Neil M [neil-john...@uiowa.edu] Sent: Thursday, July 05, 2012 3:37 PM To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU Subject: [WIRELESS-LAN] Apple Petition (Was Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] You knew it was coming...Airplay/Apple TV support for instructors.) I'm a little fuzzy on the specifics things to request from Apple, but here is a first pass): Whereas, we the undersigned academic and research institutions are receiving numerous requests from our faculty, staff, and students for the ability to utilize Airplay technology in classrooms, conference rooms, and other locations, hereby solemnly request that Apple provide support for Airplay technology in enterprise wireless networks. Specifically, we request the following (in order of priority): * That Apple establish a way for the Apple TV (and other Airplay enabled devices) to be discoverable across multiple IPv4 and IPv6 subnets or lacking that: * That Apple establish a way for the Apple TV (and other Airplay enabled devices) to be easily statically configured to be accessible across multiple IPv4 and IPv6 subnets * That the Apple TV support Enterprise Wireless Encryption and Authentication (WPA2-Enterprise) * That authentication to the Apple TV be able to utilize enterprise authentication services (LDAP and/or AD) Failure
RE: [WIRELESS-LAN] Apple Petition (Was Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] You knew it was coming...Airplay/Apple TV support for instructors.)
Apple either does not care or they have not gotten the message. There is no way to know for sure which is the case. There is not a lot we can do about the former, however we can keep trying about regarding the latter. I think the petition is a positive and creative way for us to try and reach them from another angle and collectively. I am fairly excited about how this is coming together. I will forward this thread to our Apple Engineer as a heads up. John Kaftan IT Infrastructure Manager Utica College. From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv [mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@listserv.educause.edu] On Behalf Of Kellogg, Brian D. Sent: Friday, July 06, 2012 9:27 AM To: WIRELESS-LAN@listserv.educause.edu Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Apple Petition (Was Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] You knew it was coming...Airplay/Apple TV support for instructors.) I agree although I expect nothing will come of it. Their stock price is far too high for them to be bothered with concern. I wish I could be more of an optimist sometimes. Brian From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv [mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Bruce Boardman Sent: Friday, July 06, 2012 9:25 AM To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU Subject: Re: Apple Petition (Was Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] You knew it was coming...Airplay/Apple TV support for instructors.) I think it's a good idea to reach out to Apple, even if ignored, for two reasons, so they know it's comming, and so they know it's important and not just a group of loud mouth limes. |Bruce Boardman, Network Engineer, Syracuse University - 315 889-1667 _ From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv [WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] on behalf of Mike King [m...@mpking.com] Sent: Friday, July 06, 2012 7:47 AM To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Apple Petition (Was Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] You knew it was coming...Airplay/Apple TV support for instructors.) One more thing. I think use of an online petition tool might help things out organizationally. http://www.change.org/petition there are others, that was the first Google result. Mike On Thu, Jul 5, 2012 at 5:12 PM, Lee H Badman lhbad...@syr.edu wrote: So... two thoughts. Perhaps give it another week for people to chime in with their gripes and let the list discuss them? Then perhaps digital signatures- DocuSign is free and elegant. I guess also, a courtesy inquiry to Phillipe over whether he sees this as prudent list of the group is probably in order. Say, Phillipe- do you see this as prudent use of the list? Thanks, Lee Lee H. Badman Wireless/Network Engineer, ITS Adjunct Instructor, iSchool Syracuse University 315.443.3003 From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv [WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] on behalf of Curtis K. Larsen [curtis.k.lar...@utah.edu] Sent: Thursday, July 05, 2012 5:01 PM To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Apple Petition (Was Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] You knew it was coming...Airplay/Apple TV support for instructors.) You should add fast-roaming to the list. No Mac or iOS device supports fast roaming with Opportunistic Key Caching. They can do PMK Sticky, but it is not the same as OKC. With Sticky, it is only fast when you roam back to an AP you've been on, and the client can only cache up to 8 AP's. Curtis Larsen Wireless Network Engineer University of Utah 801-587-1313 On 07/05/2012 02:46 PM, Lee H Badman wrote: Pretty much what I was thinking (ballpark) with all Educause schools individually signed on. May not amount to anything, but would in itself be media fodder. Lee H. Badman Wireless/Network Engineer, ITS Adjunct Instructor, iSchool Syracuse University 315.443.3003 From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv [WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] on behalf of Johnson, Neil M [neil-john...@uiowa.edu] Sent: Thursday, July 05, 2012 3:37 PM To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU Subject: [WIRELESS-LAN] Apple Petition (Was Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] You knew it was coming...Airplay/Apple TV support for instructors.) I'm a little fuzzy on the specifics things to request from Apple, but here is a first pass): Whereas, we the undersigned academic and research institutions are receiving numerous requests from our faculty, staff, and students for the ability to utilize Airplay technology in classrooms, conference rooms, and other locations, hereby solemnly request that Apple provide support for Airplay technology in enterprise wireless networks. Specifically, we request the following (in order of priority): * That Apple establish a way for the Apple TV (and other Airplay enabled devices) to be discoverable across multiple IPv4 and IPv6 subnets or lacking that: * That Apple establish a way for the Apple TV
Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Apple Petition (Was Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] You knew it was coming...Airplay/Apple TV support for instructors.)
I've added a section on solution criteria: Whereas, we the undersigned academic and research institutions are receiving numerous requests from our faculty, staff, and students for the ability to utilize Airplay technology in classrooms, conference rooms, and other locations, hereby solemnly request that Apple provide support for Airplay technology in enterprise networks. Specifically, we request the following (in order of priority): * That Apple establish a way for the Apple TV (and other Airplay enabled devices) to be discoverable across multiple IPv4 and IPv6 subnets, or lacking that: * That Apple establish a way for the Apple TV (and other Airplay enabled devices) to be easily statically configured to be accessible across multiple IPv4 and IPv6 subnets * That the Apple TV support Enterprise Wireless Encryption and Authentication (WPA2-Enterprise) * That authentication to the Apple TV be able to utilize enterprise authentication services (LDAP and/or AD) Any enterprise Airplay solution needs to meet the following criteria: * It must scale to 100's-1000's of Airplay enabled devices. * It must not significantly negatively impact network traffic (wired and wireless). * It must be easily manageable at scale. * It must be provided at a reasonable cost Failure to provide this support severely limits the usefulness (and desirability) of Apple products in our institutions. At your earliest convenience please provide us with a roadmap for support of Airplay and related technologies in enterprise wireless environments. Thank you. -- Neil Johnson Network Engineer The University of Iowa Phone: 319 384-0938 Fax: 319 335-2951 Mobile: 319 540-2081 E-Mail: neil-john...@uiowa.edu From: John Kaftan jkaf...@utica.edumailto:jkaf...@utica.edu Reply-To: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDUmailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU Date: Friday, July 6, 2012 9:11 AM To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDUmailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDUmailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Apple Petition (Was Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] You knew it was coming...Airplay/Apple TV support for instructors.) Apple either does not care or they have not gotten the message. There is no way to know for sure which is the case. There is not a lot we can do about the former, however we can keep trying about regarding the latter. I think the petition is a positive and creative way for us to try and reach them from another angle and collectively. I am fairly excited about how this is coming together. I will forward this thread to our Apple Engineer as a heads up. John Kaftan IT Infrastructure Manager Utica College. From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv [mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@listserv.educause.edu] On Behalf Of Kellogg, Brian D. Sent: Friday, July 06, 2012 9:27 AM To: WIRELESS-LAN@listserv.educause.edumailto:WIRELESS-LAN@listserv.educause.edu Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Apple Petition (Was Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] You knew it was coming...Airplay/Apple TV support for instructors.) I agree although I expect nothing will come of it. Their stock price is far too high for them to be bothered with concern. I wish I could be more of an optimist sometimes. Brian From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv [mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Bruce Boardman Sent: Friday, July 06, 2012 9:25 AM To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDUmailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU Subject: Re: Apple Petition (Was Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] You knew it was coming...Airplay/Apple TV support for instructors.) I think it's a good idea to reach out to Apple, even if ignored, for two reasons, so they know it's comming, and so they know it's important and not just a group of loud mouth limes. |Bruce Boardman, Network Engineer, Syracuse University - 315 889-1667 From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv [WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDUmailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] on behalf of Mike King [m...@mpking.commailto:m...@mpking.com] Sent: Friday, July 06, 2012 7:47 AM To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDUmailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Apple Petition (Was Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] You knew it was coming...Airplay/Apple TV support for instructors.) One more thing. I think use of an online petition tool might help things out organizationally. http://www.change.org/petition there are others, that was the first Google result. Mike On Thu, Jul 5, 2012 at 5:12 PM, Lee H Badman lhbad...@syr.edumailto:lhbad...@syr.edu wrote: So... two thoughts. Perhaps give it another week for people to chime in with their gripes and let the list discuss them? Then perhaps digital signatures- DocuSign is free and elegant. I guess also
Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Apple Petition (Was Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] You knew it was coming...Airplay/Apple TV support for instructors.)
I tried to create a Facebook group, but it's requesting I add members to it before it is created. Any suggestions ? -Neil -- Neil Johnson Network Engineer The University of Iowa Phone: 319 384-0938 Fax: 319 335-2951 Mobile: 319 540-2081 E-Mail: neil-john...@uiowa.edu From: Johnson, Neil Johnson neil-john...@uiowa.edumailto:neil-john...@uiowa.edu Reply-To: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDUmailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU Date: Friday, July 6, 2012 9:26 AM To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDUmailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDUmailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Apple Petition (Was Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] You knew it was coming...Airplay/Apple TV support for instructors.) I've added a section on solution criteria: Whereas, we the undersigned academic and research institutions are receiving numerous requests from our faculty, staff, and students for the ability to utilize Airplay technology in classrooms, conference rooms, and other locations, hereby solemnly request that Apple provide support for Airplay technology in enterprise networks. Specifically, we request the following (in order of priority): * That Apple establish a way for the Apple TV (and other Airplay enabled devices) to be discoverable across multiple IPv4 and IPv6 subnets, or lacking that: * That Apple establish a way for the Apple TV (and other Airplay enabled devices) to be easily statically configured to be accessible across multiple IPv4 and IPv6 subnets * That the Apple TV support Enterprise Wireless Encryption and Authentication (WPA2-Enterprise) * That authentication to the Apple TV be able to utilize enterprise authentication services (LDAP and/or AD) Any enterprise Airplay solution needs to meet the following criteria: * It must scale to 100's-1000's of Airplay enabled devices. * It must not significantly negatively impact network traffic (wired and wireless). * It must be easily manageable at scale. * It must be provided at a reasonable cost Failure to provide this support severely limits the usefulness (and desirability) of Apple products in our institutions. At your earliest convenience please provide us with a roadmap for support of Airplay and related technologies in enterprise wireless environments. Thank you. -- Neil Johnson Network Engineer The University of Iowa Phone: 319 384-0938 Fax: 319 335-2951 Mobile: 319 540-2081 E-Mail: neil-john...@uiowa.edumailto:neil-john...@uiowa.edu From: John Kaftan jkaf...@utica.edumailto:jkaf...@utica.edu Reply-To: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDUmailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU Date: Friday, July 6, 2012 9:11 AM To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDUmailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDUmailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Apple Petition (Was Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] You knew it was coming...Airplay/Apple TV support for instructors.) Apple either does not care or they have not gotten the message. There is no way to know for sure which is the case. There is not a lot we can do about the former, however we can keep trying about regarding the latter. I think the petition is a positive and creative way for us to try and reach them from another angle and collectively. I am fairly excited about how this is coming together. I will forward this thread to our Apple Engineer as a heads up. John Kaftan IT Infrastructure Manager Utica College. From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv [mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@listserv.educause.edu] On Behalf Of Kellogg, Brian D. Sent: Friday, July 06, 2012 9:27 AM To: WIRELESS-LAN@listserv.educause.edumailto:WIRELESS-LAN@listserv.educause.edu Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Apple Petition (Was Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] You knew it was coming...Airplay/Apple TV support for instructors.) I agree although I expect nothing will come of it. Their stock price is far too high for them to be bothered with concern. I wish I could be more of an optimist sometimes. Brian From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv [mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Bruce Boardman Sent: Friday, July 06, 2012 9:25 AM To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDUmailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU Subject: Re: Apple Petition (Was Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] You knew it was coming...Airplay/Apple TV support for instructors.) I think it's a good idea to reach out to Apple, even if ignored, for two reasons, so they know it's comming, and so they know it's important and not just a group of loud mouth limes. |Bruce Boardman, Network Engineer, Syracuse University - 315 889-1667 From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv [WIRELESS-LAN
RE: [WIRELESS-LAN] Apple Petition (Was Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] You knew it was coming...Airplay/Apple TV support for instructors.)
For me, the key point is enterprise networks. When Bonjour first came to my attention, it was officially described as An experimental protocol for small networks without DNS servers. Apparently, Apple's thinking is that if you use their products, your network MUST qualify. I believe THAT is the attitude that needs to be changed. David Gillett From: Johnson, Neil M [neil-john...@uiowa.edu] Sent: Friday, July 06, 2012 7:55 AM To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Apple Petition (Was Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] You knew it was coming...Airplay/Apple TV support for instructors.) How about: Whereas, we the undersigned academic and research institutions are receiving numerous requests from our faculty, staff, and students for the ability to utilize Airplay technology in classrooms, conference rooms, and other locations, hereby solemnly request that Apple provide support for Airplay technology in enterprise networks. Specifically, we request the following (in order of priority): * That Apple establish a way for the Apple TV (and other Airplay enabled devices) to be easily accessible across multiple IPv4 and IPv6 subnets. * That Apple establish a way for the Apple TV (and other Airplay enabled devices) to be easily statically configured to be accessible across multiple IPv4 and IPv6 subnets. * That the Apple TV support Enterprise Wireless Encryption and Authentication (WPA2-Enterprise) * That authentication to the Apple TV be able to utilize enterprise authentication services (LDAP and/or AD) Any enterprise Airplay solution needs to meet the following criteria: * It must scale to 100's-1000's of Airplay enabled devices. * It must work with wired and wireless networks from different vendors. * It must not significantly negatively impact network traffic (wired and wireless). * It must be easily manageable at scale. * If it requires a separate hardware solution, the solution's hardware must be enterprise grade (rack mountable, dual power supplies, etc.) * It must be provided at a reasonable cost Failure to provide this support severely limits the usefulness (and desirability) of Apple products in our institutions. At your earliest convenience please provide us with a roadmap for support of Airplay and related technologies in enterprise wireless environments. Thank you. -- Neil Johnson Network Engineer The University of Iowa Phone: 319 384-0938 Fax: 319 335-2951 Mobile: 319 540-2081 E-Mail: neil-john...@uiowa.edumailto:neil-john...@uiowa.edu -- Neil Johnson Network Engineer The University of Iowa Phone: 319 384-0938 Fax: 319 335-2951 Mobile: 319 540-2081 E-Mail: neil-john...@uiowa.edu From: Ian McDonald i...@st-andrews.ac.ukmailto:i...@st-andrews.ac.uk Reply-To: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDUmailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU Date: Friday, July 6, 2012 9:32 AM To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDUmailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDUmailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Apple Petition (Was Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] You knew it was coming...Airplay/Apple TV support for instructors.) It must run on a standard size rack-mountable server class piece of hardware! I’m not big on “discovery”, I’d much rather some central registration arbiter system through which the traffic flowed, and probably a separate “Airplay Enterprise” software implementation. We don’t want to have to allow inter-client communications on either our wireless or wired networks. In general though, I’d like to see it looking like it’s a deployable and manageable solution, not something that might work (if you’re lucky) in your house. My 0.02 :) -- ian From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv [mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Johnson, Neil M Sent: 06 July 2012 15:26 To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDUmailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Apple Petition (Was Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] You knew it was coming...Airplay/Apple TV support for instructors.) I've added a section on solution criteria: Whereas, we the undersigned academic and research institutions are receiving numerous requests from our faculty, staff, and students for the ability to utilize Airplay technology in classrooms, conference rooms, and other locations, hereby solemnly request that Apple provide support for Airplay technology in enterprise networks. Specifically, we request the following (in order of priority): * That Apple establish a way for the Apple TV (and other Airplay enabled devices) to be discoverable across multiple IPv4 and IPv6 subnets, or lacking that: * That Apple establish a way for the Apple TV (and other Airplay enabled devices) to be easily statically configured to be accessible across multiple
Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Apple Petition (Was Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] You knew it was coming...Airplay/Apple TV support for instructors.)
That is worth mentioning: I'll be disappointed if this petition is limited to AirPlay. The real target here is Bonjour. It's required for an iOS device to use wifi to sync to iTunes. Time Capsule uses it. It is rapidly becoming the cornerstone of Apple's networking story. In fairness, if we give Apple the benefit of the doubt on the experimental part of the mDNS description, then small networks without DNS servers perfectly describes the typical Apple deployment environment. Move beyond that, though, and the experiment has failed. Spectacularly. Just be careful what you ask for. Apple's likely response is to release a new line of AirPort access points for enterprise that work with Bonjour and make Cisco's pricing look like D-Link. Joel Coehoorn IT Director York College, Nebraska 402.363.5603 jcoeho...@york.edu On Fri, Jul 6, 2012 at 10:08 AM, David Gillett gillettda...@fhda.eduwrote: For me, the key point is enterprise networks. When Bonjour first came to my attention, it was officially described as An experimental protocol for small networks without DNS servers. Apparently, Apple's thinking is that if you use their products, your network MUST qualify. I believe THAT is the attitude that needs to be changed. David Gillett -- *From:* Johnson, Neil M [neil-john...@uiowa.edu] *Sent:* Friday, July 06, 2012 7:55 AM *To:* WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU *Subject:* Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Apple Petition (Was Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] You knew it was coming...Airplay/Apple TV support for instructors.) How about: Whereas, we the undersigned academic and research institutions are receiving numerous requests from our faculty, staff, and students for the ability to utilize Airplay technology in classrooms, conference rooms, and other locations, hereby solemnly request that Apple provide support for Airplay technology in enterprise networks. Specifically, we request the following (in order of priority): - That Apple establish a way for the Apple TV (and other Airplay enabled devices) to be easily accessible across multiple IPv4 and IPv6 subnets. - That Apple establish a way for the Apple TV (and other Airplay enabled devices) to be easily statically configured to be accessible across multiple IPv4 and IPv6 subnets. - That the Apple TV support Enterprise Wireless Encryption and Authentication (WPA2-Enterprise) - That authentication to the Apple TV be able to utilize enterprise authentication services (LDAP and/or AD) Any enterprise Airplay solution needs to meet the following criteria: - It must scale to 100's-1000's of Airplay enabled devices. - It must work with wired and wireless networks from different vendors. - It must not significantly negatively impact network traffic (wired and wireless). - It must be easily manageable at scale. - If it requires a separate hardware solution, the solution's hardware must be enterprise grade (rack mountable, dual power supplies, etc.) - It must be provided at a reasonable cost Failure to provide this support severely limits the usefulness (and desirability) of Apple products in our institutions. At your earliest convenience please provide us with a roadmap for support of Airplay and related technologies in enterprise wireless environments. Thank you. -- Neil Johnson Network Engineer The University of Iowa Phone: 319 384-0938 Fax: 319 335-2951 Mobile: 319 540-2081 E-Mail: neil-john...@uiowa.edu -- Neil Johnson Network Engineer The University of Iowa Phone: 319 384-0938 Fax: 319 335-2951 Mobile: 319 540-2081 E-Mail: neil-john...@uiowa.edu From: Ian McDonald i...@st-andrews.ac.uk Reply-To: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU Date: Friday, July 6, 2012 9:32 AM To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Apple Petition (Was Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] You knew it was coming...Airplay/Apple TV support for instructors.) It must run on a standard size rack-mountable server class piece of hardware! I’m not big on “discovery”, I’d much rather some central registration arbiter system through which the traffic flowed, and probably a separate “Airplay Enterprise” software implementation. We don’t want to have to allow inter-client communications on either our wireless or wired networks. In general though, I’d like to see it looking like it’s a deployable and manageable solution, not something that might work (if you’re lucky) in your house. My 0.02 J -- ian *From:* The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv [ mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDUWIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] *On Behalf Of *Johnson, Neil M *Sent:* 06 July 2012 15:26 *To:* WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU *Subject:* Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Apple Petition (Was Re
Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] You knew it was coming...Airplay/Apple TV support for instructors.
Has anyone tried not supporting Bonjour and directing users who complain to Apple? Perhaps if we all did that it would get Apple's attention. John Kaftan Infrastructure Manager Utica College - Reply message - From: Andy Voelker avoel...@email.wcu.edu Date: Thu, Jul 5, 2012 8:23 am Subject: [WIRELESS-LAN] You knew it was coming...Airplay/Apple TV support for instructors. To: WIRELESS-LAN@listserv.educause.edu Ours completely denied the existence of a possible issue. Of course, you could see in his eyes that his answer was somewhat forced... -- Andy Voelker Manager of Student Computing in the Technology Commons WCU Staff Senator Western Carolina University Check the status of your IT requests at any time at http://help.wcu.edu/ ! -Original Message- From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv [mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Kellogg, Brian D. Sent: Tuesday, July 03, 2012 5:48 PM To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] You knew it was coming...Airplay/Apple TV support for instructors. I did and it was less productive than spitting into the wind. They really don't care and have the attitude that the consumer demand will dictate others find solutions to their protocol deficiencies. At least that was my impression. It still befuddles me you just can't plug in a FQDN or IP address for Airplay to connect to. Brian From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv [WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Lee H Badman [lhbad...@syr.edu] Sent: Tuesday, July 03, 2012 10:15 AM To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU Subject: Re: You knew it was coming...Airplay/Apple TV support for instructors. Has anyone else attempted to voice concern to their Apple reps about their non-business-class features and reliance on Bonjour on these gadgets? I know they seem to listen to no one, and given their market share likely feel like they don't have to. But is anyone making the attempt to get feedback to Apple? The thought of architecting around non-standards-based toys just feels unpleasant. -Curious in Syracuse Lee H. Badman Wireless/Network Engineer Information Technology and Services Adjunct Instructor, iSchool Syracuse University 315 443-3003 -Original Message- From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv [mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Hanset, Philippe C Sent: Tuesday, July 03, 2012 10:03 AM To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] You knew it was coming...Airplay/Apple TV support for instructors. Mike, For a one off and minimal investment, I would bring up an Open-WRT or DDRT AP (or any affordable AP that is capable of doing WPA2-enterprise) independent from your regular infrastructure and make people join a dedicated subnet for that room (use NAT, and WPA2-enterprise). Connect the Apple TV to the wired port of the AP and broadcast a dedicated SSID. With WPA2-enterprise joining your RADIUS server you can make it secure. It is a dirty solution, electromagnetically speaking, but quick. If the conference room has too may users for one AP, create a dedicated SSID just for that conference room on your existing infrastructure and terminate the VLAN of that SSID on the same VLAN as the AppleTV Philippe Hanset Univ. of TN www.eduroamus.org On Jul 3, 2012, at 9:06 AM, Mike King wrote: So I have Cisco Wireless, and I've just been asked to make Airplay work in a conference room. We do not have multicast enable (anywhere). Asking for details, I've been told it's only this one conference room. (I someone believe this, as it the only one that has a projector that get's any use) Suggestions for this as a one off? I have idea's one what to do for a campus wide deployment, but that will take me significantly longer to deploy, and my boss is asking me to have this done this week. Right now, we have a single WPA2/enterprise SSID, and the apple TV will most likely be wired (not required) Mike ** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/. ** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/. ** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/. ** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/. ** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/. ** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent
RE: [WIRELESS-LAN] You knew it was coming...Airplay/Apple TV support for instructors.
Most Mac users have partaken of the Kool-Aid. They believe Apple – not us!! From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv [mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of jkaf...@utica.edu Sent: Thursday, July 05, 2012 8:11 AM To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] You knew it was coming...Airplay/Apple TV support for instructors. Has anyone tried not supporting Bonjour and directing users who complain to Apple? Perhaps if we all did that it would get Apple's attention. John Kaftan Infrastructure Manager Utica College - Reply message - From: Andy Voelker avoel...@email.wcu.edumailto:avoel...@email.wcu.edu Date: Thu, Jul 5, 2012 8:23 am Subject: [WIRELESS-LAN] You knew it was coming...Airplay/Apple TV support for instructors. To: WIRELESS-LAN@listserv.educause.edumailto:WIRELESS-LAN@listserv.educause.edu Ours completely denied the existence of a possible issue. Of course, you could see in his eyes that his answer was somewhat forced... -- Andy Voelker Manager of Student Computing in the Technology Commons WCU Staff Senator Western Carolina University Check the status of your IT requests at any time at http://help.wcu.edu/ ! -Original Message- From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv [mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU]mailto:[mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Kellogg, Brian D. Sent: Tuesday, July 03, 2012 5:48 PM To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDUmailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] You knew it was coming...Airplay/Apple TV support for instructors. I did and it was less productive than spitting into the wind. They really don't care and have the attitude that the consumer demand will dictate others find solutions to their protocol deficiencies. At least that was my impression. It still befuddles me you just can't plug in a FQDN or IP address for Airplay to connect to. Brian From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv [WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Lee H Badman [lhbad...@syr.edu] Sent: Tuesday, July 03, 2012 10:15 AM To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDUmailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU Subject: Re: You knew it was coming...Airplay/Apple TV support for instructors. Has anyone else attempted to voice concern to their Apple reps about their non-business-class features and reliance on Bonjour on these gadgets? I know they seem to listen to no one, and given their market share likely feel like they don't have to. But is anyone making the attempt to get feedback to Apple? The thought of architecting around non-standards-based toys just feels unpleasant. -Curious in Syracuse Lee H. Badman Wireless/Network Engineer Information Technology and Services Adjunct Instructor, iSchool Syracuse University 315 443-3003 -Original Message- From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv [mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU]mailto:[mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Hanset, Philippe C Sent: Tuesday, July 03, 2012 10:03 AM To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDUmailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] You knew it was coming...Airplay/Apple TV support for instructors. Mike, For a one off and minimal investment, I would bring up an Open-WRT or DDRT AP (or any affordable AP that is capable of doing WPA2-enterprise) independent from your regular infrastructure and make people join a dedicated subnet for that room (use NAT, and WPA2-enterprise). Connect the Apple TV to the wired port of the AP and broadcast a dedicated SSID. With WPA2-enterprise joining your RADIUS server you can make it secure. It is a dirty solution, electromagnetically speaking, but quick. If the conference room has too may users for one AP, create a dedicated SSID just for that conference room on your existing infrastructure and terminate the VLAN of that SSID on the same VLAN as the AppleTV Philippe Hanset Univ. of TN www.eduroamus.orghttp://www.eduroamus.org On Jul 3, 2012, at 9:06 AM, Mike King wrote: So I have Cisco Wireless, and I've just been asked to make Airplay work in a conference room. We do not have multicast enable (anywhere). Asking for details, I've been told it's only this one conference room. (I someone believe this, as it the only one that has a projector that get's any use) Suggestions for this as a one off? I have idea's one what to do for a campus wide deployment, but that will take me significantly longer to deploy, and my boss is asking me to have this done this week. Right now, we have a single WPA2/enterprise SSID, and the apple TV will most likely be wired (not required) Mike ** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/.http
RE: [WIRELESS-LAN] You knew it was coming...Airplay/Apple TV support for instructors.
We tell students this and they do not like that answer! I would definitely support an Educause petition to Apple about Bonjour along with the AppleID/AppStore process (which is going to be a mess for us with Mountain Lion). Tim Cappalli, ACMP CCNA | (802) 626-6456 Office of Information Technology (OIT) | Lyndon » cappa...@lyndonstate.edumailto:cappa...@lyndonstate.edu | oit.lyndonstate.eduhttp://it.lyndonstate.edu/ [cid:image001.png@01CD5A95.5B1FF3A0]http://facebook.com/LyndonOIT[cid:image002.png@01CD5A95.5B1FF3A0]http://twitter.com/#!/LyndonOIT[cid:image003.png@01CD5A95.5B1FF3A0]http://gplus.to/LyndonOIT From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv [mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of jkaf...@utica.edu Sent: Thursday, July 05, 2012 9:11 AM To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] You knew it was coming...Airplay/Apple TV support for instructors. Has anyone tried not supporting Bonjour and directing users who complain to Apple? Perhaps if we all did that it would get Apple's attention. John Kaftan Infrastructure Manager Utica College - Reply message - From: Andy Voelker avoel...@email.wcu.edu Date: Thu, Jul 5, 2012 8:23 am Subject: [WIRELESS-LAN] You knew it was coming...Airplay/Apple TV support for instructors. To: WIRELESS-LAN@listserv.educause.edu Ours completely denied the existence of a possible issue. Of course, you could see in his eyes that his answer was somewhat forced... -- Andy Voelker Manager of Student Computing in the Technology Commons WCU Staff Senator Western Carolina University Check the status of your IT requests at any time at http://help.wcu.edu/ ! -Original Message- From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv [mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Kellogg, Brian D. Sent: Tuesday, July 03, 2012 5:48 PM To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] You knew it was coming...Airplay/Apple TV support for instructors. I did and it was less productive than spitting into the wind. They really don't care and have the attitude that the consumer demand will dictate others find solutions to their protocol deficiencies. At least that was my impression. It still befuddles me you just can't plug in a FQDN or IP address for Airplay to connect to. Brian From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv [WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Lee H Badman [lhbad...@syr.edu] Sent: Tuesday, July 03, 2012 10:15 AM To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU Subject: Re: You knew it was coming...Airplay/Apple TV support for instructors. Has anyone else attempted to voice concern to their Apple reps about their non-business-class features and reliance on Bonjour on these gadgets? I know they seem to listen to no one, and given their market share likely feel like they don't have to. But is anyone making the attempt to get feedback to Apple? The thought of architecting around non-standards-based toys just feels unpleasant. -Curious in Syracuse Lee H. Badman Wireless/Network Engineer Information Technology and Services Adjunct Instructor, iSchool Syracuse University 315 443-3003 -Original Message- From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv [mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Hanset, Philippe C Sent: Tuesday, July 03, 2012 10:03 AM To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] You knew it was coming...Airplay/Apple TV support for instructors. Mike, For a one off and minimal investment, I would bring up an Open-WRT or DDRT AP (or any affordable AP that is capable of doing WPA2-enterprise) independent from your regular infrastructure and make people join a dedicated subnet for that room (use NAT, and WPA2-enterprise). Connect the Apple TV to the wired port of the AP and broadcast a dedicated SSID. With WPA2-enterprise joining your RADIUS server you can make it secure. It is a dirty solution, electromagnetically speaking, but quick. If the conference room has too may users for one AP, create a dedicated SSID just for that conference room on your existing infrastructure and terminate the VLAN of that SSID on the same VLAN as the AppleTV Philippe Hanset Univ. of TN www.eduroamus.org On Jul 3, 2012, at 9:06 AM, Mike King wrote: So I have Cisco Wireless, and I've just been asked to make Airplay work in a conference room. We do not have multicast enable (anywhere). Asking for details, I've been told it's only this one conference room. (I someone believe this, as it the only one that has a projector that get's any use) Suggestions for this as a one off? I have idea's one what to do for a campus wide deployment, but that will take me significantly longer to deploy, and my boss is asking me to have this done this week. Right now, we have a single WPA2/enterprise SSID
RE: [WIRELESS-LAN] You knew it was coming...Airplay/Apple TV support for instructors.
I doubt that Apple has any clue that Educause even exists. Pete Morrissey From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv [mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Lee H Badman Sent: Thursday, July 05, 2012 9:56 AM To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] You knew it was coming...Airplay/Apple TV support for instructors. ...or somehow have everyone on the Educause list sign a petition that gets presented to Apple- if you can gain entry into the Bubble of Blissful Perfection. From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv [WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] on behalf of jkaf...@utica.edumailto:jkaf...@utica.edu [jkaf...@utica.edu] Sent: Thursday, July 05, 2012 9:10 AM To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDUmailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] You knew it was coming...Airplay/Apple TV support for instructors. Has anyone tried not supporting Bonjour and directing users who complain to Apple? Perhaps if we all did that it would get Apple's attention. John Kaftan Infrastructure Manager Utica College - Reply message - From: Andy Voelker avoel...@email.wcu.edumailto:avoel...@email.wcu.edu Date: Thu, Jul 5, 2012 8:23 am Subject: [WIRELESS-LAN] You knew it was coming...Airplay/Apple TV support for instructors. To: WIRELESS-LAN@listserv.educause.edumailto:WIRELESS-LAN@listserv.educause.edu Ours completely denied the existence of a possible issue. Of course, you could see in his eyes that his answer was somewhat forced... -- Andy Voelker Manager of Student Computing in the Technology Commons WCU Staff Senator Western Carolina University Check the status of your IT requests at any time at http://help.wcu.edu/ ! -Original Message- From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv [mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Kellogg, Brian D. Sent: Tuesday, July 03, 2012 5:48 PM To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDUmailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] You knew it was coming...Airplay/Apple TV support for instructors. I did and it was less productive than spitting into the wind. They really don't care and have the attitude that the consumer demand will dictate others find solutions to their protocol deficiencies. At least that was my impression. It still befuddles me you just can't plug in a FQDN or IP address for Airplay to connect to. Brian From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv [WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Lee H Badman [lhbad...@syr.edu] Sent: Tuesday, July 03, 2012 10:15 AM To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDUmailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU Subject: Re: You knew it was coming...Airplay/Apple TV support for instructors. Has anyone else attempted to voice concern to their Apple reps about their non-business-class features and reliance on Bonjour on these gadgets? I know they seem to listen to no one, and given their market share likely feel like they don't have to. But is anyone making the attempt to get feedback to Apple? The thought of architecting around non-standards-based toys just feels unpleasant. -Curious in Syracuse Lee H. Badman Wireless/Network Engineer Information Technology and Services Adjunct Instructor, iSchool Syracuse University 315 443-3003 -Original Message- From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv [mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Hanset, Philippe C Sent: Tuesday, July 03, 2012 10:03 AM To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDUmailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] You knew it was coming...Airplay/Apple TV support for instructors. Mike, For a one off and minimal investment, I would bring up an Open-WRT or DDRT AP (or any affordable AP that is capable of doing WPA2-enterprise) independent from your regular infrastructure and make people join a dedicated subnet for that room (use NAT, and WPA2-enterprise). Connect the Apple TV to the wired port of the AP and broadcast a dedicated SSID. With WPA2-enterprise joining your RADIUS server you can make it secure. It is a dirty solution, electromagnetically speaking, but quick. If the conference room has too may users for one AP, create a dedicated SSID just for that conference room on your existing infrastructure and terminate the VLAN of that SSID on the same VLAN as the AppleTV Philippe Hanset Univ. of TN www.eduroamus.orghttp://www.eduroamus.org On Jul 3, 2012, at 9:06 AM, Mike King wrote: So I have Cisco Wireless, and I've just been asked to make Airplay work in a conference room. We do not have multicast enable (anywhere). Asking for details, I've been told it's only this one conference room. (I someone believe this, as it the only one that has a projector that get's any use) Suggestions
Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] You knew it was coming...Airplay/Apple TV support for instructors.
On 7/5/2012 11:11 AM, Peter P Morrissey wrote: I doubt that Apple has any clue that Educause even exists. Pete Morrissey It doesn't show up in Bonjour, and doesn't answer multicast DNS requests, so no, it can't possibly exist :) Jeff ** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/.
Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] You knew it was coming...Airplay/Apple TV support for instructors.
Or maybe a well known blogger could write an article about it…. :-) -Neil -- Neil Johnson Network Engineer The University of Iowa Phone: 319 384-0938 Fax: 319 335-2951 Mobile: 319 540-2081 E-Mail: neil-john...@uiowa.edu From: Lee H Badman lhbad...@syr.edumailto:lhbad...@syr.edu Reply-To: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDUmailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU Date: Thursday, July 5, 2012 8:56 AM To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDUmailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDUmailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] You knew it was coming...Airplay/Apple TV support for instructors. ...or somehow have everyone on the Educause list sign a petition that gets presented to Apple- if you can gain entry into the Bubble of Blissful Perfection. From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv [WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDUmailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] on behalf of jkaf...@utica.edumailto:jkaf...@utica.edu [jkaf...@utica.edumailto:jkaf...@utica.edu] Sent: Thursday, July 05, 2012 9:10 AM To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDUmailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] You knew it was coming...Airplay/Apple TV support for instructors. Has anyone tried not supporting Bonjour and directing users who complain to Apple? Perhaps if we all did that it would get Apple's attention. John Kaftan Infrastructure Manager Utica College - Reply message - From: Andy Voelker avoel...@email.wcu.edumailto:avoel...@email.wcu.edu Date: Thu, Jul 5, 2012 8:23 am Subject: [WIRELESS-LAN] You knew it was coming...Airplay/Apple TV support for instructors. To: WIRELESS-LAN@listserv.educause.edumailto:WIRELESS-LAN@listserv.educause.edu Ours completely denied the existence of a possible issue. Of course, you could see in his eyes that his answer was somewhat forced... -- Andy Voelker Manager of Student Computing in the Technology Commons WCU Staff Senator Western Carolina University Check the status of your IT requests at any time at http://help.wcu.edu/ ! -Original Message- From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv [mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Kellogg, Brian D. Sent: Tuesday, July 03, 2012 5:48 PM To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDUmailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] You knew it was coming...Airplay/Apple TV support for instructors. I did and it was less productive than spitting into the wind. They really don't care and have the attitude that the consumer demand will dictate others find solutions to their protocol deficiencies. At least that was my impression. It still befuddles me you just can't plug in a FQDN or IP address for Airplay to connect to. Brian From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv [WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDUmailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Lee H Badman [lhbad...@syr.edumailto:lhbad...@syr.edu] Sent: Tuesday, July 03, 2012 10:15 AM To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDUmailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU Subject: Re: You knew it was coming...Airplay/Apple TV support for instructors. Has anyone else attempted to voice concern to their Apple reps about their non-business-class features and reliance on Bonjour on these gadgets? I know they seem to listen to no one, and given their market share likely feel like they don't have to. But is anyone making the attempt to get feedback to Apple? The thought of architecting around non-standards-based toys just feels unpleasant. -Curious in Syracuse Lee H. Badman Wireless/Network Engineer Information Technology and Services Adjunct Instructor, iSchool Syracuse University 315 443-3003 -Original Message- From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv [mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Hanset, Philippe C Sent: Tuesday, July 03, 2012 10:03 AM To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDUmailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] You knew it was coming...Airplay/Apple TV support for instructors. Mike, For a one off and minimal investment, I would bring up an Open-WRT or DDRT AP (or any affordable AP that is capable of doing WPA2-enterprise) independent from your regular infrastructure and make people join a dedicated subnet for that room (use NAT, and WPA2-enterprise). Connect the Apple TV to the wired port of the AP and broadcast a dedicated SSID. With WPA2-enterprise joining your RADIUS server you can make it secure. It is a dirty solution, electromagnetically speaking, but quick. If the conference room has too may users for one AP, create a dedicated SSID just for that conference room on your existing infrastructure and terminate the VLAN of that SSID
RE: [WIRELESS-LAN] You knew it was coming...Airplay/Apple TV support for instructors.
You mean a good-looking, man-of-action blogger? Hmmm. Let me call the agency, see if they have anyone on staff. I was thinking more like a couple of hundred well-known institutions of higher Ed all signing the same doc. Lee H. Badman Wireless/Network Engineer, ITS Adjunct Instructor, iSchool Syracuse University 315.443.3003 From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv [WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] on behalf of Johnson, Neil M [neil-john...@uiowa.edu] Sent: Thursday, July 05, 2012 1:23 PM To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] You knew it was coming...Airplay/Apple TV support for instructors. Or maybe a well known blogger could write an article about it…. :-) -Neil -- Neil Johnson Network Engineer The University of Iowa Phone: 319 384-0938 Fax: 319 335-2951 Mobile: 319 540-2081 E-Mail: neil-john...@uiowa.edu From: Lee H Badman lhbad...@syr.edumailto:lhbad...@syr.edu Reply-To: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDUmailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU Date: Thursday, July 5, 2012 8:56 AM To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDUmailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDUmailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] You knew it was coming...Airplay/Apple TV support for instructors. ...or somehow have everyone on the Educause list sign a petition that gets presented to Apple- if you can gain entry into the Bubble of Blissful Perfection. From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv [WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDUmailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] on behalf of jkaf...@utica.edumailto:jkaf...@utica.edu [jkaf...@utica.edumailto:jkaf...@utica.edu] Sent: Thursday, July 05, 2012 9:10 AM To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDUmailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] You knew it was coming...Airplay/Apple TV support for instructors. Has anyone tried not supporting Bonjour and directing users who complain to Apple? Perhaps if we all did that it would get Apple's attention. John Kaftan Infrastructure Manager Utica College - Reply message - From: Andy Voelker avoel...@email.wcu.edumailto:avoel...@email.wcu.edu Date: Thu, Jul 5, 2012 8:23 am Subject: [WIRELESS-LAN] You knew it was coming...Airplay/Apple TV support for instructors. To: WIRELESS-LAN@listserv.educause.edumailto:WIRELESS-LAN@listserv.educause.edu Ours completely denied the existence of a possible issue. Of course, you could see in his eyes that his answer was somewhat forced... -- Andy Voelker Manager of Student Computing in the Technology Commons WCU Staff Senator Western Carolina University Check the status of your IT requests at any time at http://help.wcu.edu/ ! -Original Message- From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv [mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Kellogg, Brian D. Sent: Tuesday, July 03, 2012 5:48 PM To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDUmailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] You knew it was coming...Airplay/Apple TV support for instructors. I did and it was less productive than spitting into the wind. They really don't care and have the attitude that the consumer demand will dictate others find solutions to their protocol deficiencies. At least that was my impression. It still befuddles me you just can't plug in a FQDN or IP address for Airplay to connect to. Brian From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv [WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDUmailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Lee H Badman [lhbad...@syr.edumailto:lhbad...@syr.edu] Sent: Tuesday, July 03, 2012 10:15 AM To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDUmailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU Subject: Re: You knew it was coming...Airplay/Apple TV support for instructors. Has anyone else attempted to voice concern to their Apple reps about their non-business-class features and reliance on Bonjour on these gadgets? I know they seem to listen to no one, and given their market share likely feel like they don't have to. But is anyone making the attempt to get feedback to Apple? The thought of architecting around non-standards-based toys just feels unpleasant. -Curious in Syracuse Lee H. Badman Wireless/Network Engineer Information Technology and Services Adjunct Instructor, iSchool Syracuse University 315 443-3003 -Original Message- From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv [mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Hanset, Philippe C Sent: Tuesday, July 03, 2012 10:03 AM To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDUmailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] You knew it was coming...Airplay/Apple TV
RE: [WIRELESS-LAN] You knew it was coming...Airplay/Apple TV support for instructors.
I bet if you would write something up we could get signatures from just about every college and university. Do you have time to work up a short document that could be passed around on this list (and to others interested in this subject)? We need to convince (or coerce) Apple into playing nice in the enterprise space with all of their products. -jcw - John Watters UA: OIT 205-348-3992 -Original Message- From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv [mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Lee H Badman Sent: Thursday, July 05, 2012 1:05 PM To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] You knew it was coming...Airplay/Apple TV support for instructors. You mean a good-looking, man-of-action blogger? Hmmm. Let me call the agency, see if they have anyone on staff. I was thinking more like a couple of hundred well-known institutions of higher Ed all signing the same doc. Lee H. Badman Wireless/Network Engineer, ITS Adjunct Instructor, iSchool Syracuse University 315.443.3003 From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv [WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] on behalf of Johnson, Neil M [neil-john...@uiowa.edu] Sent: Thursday, July 05, 2012 1:23 PM To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] You knew it was coming...Airplay/Apple TV support for instructors. Or maybe a well known blogger could write an article about it.. :-) -Neil -- Neil Johnson Network Engineer The University of Iowa Phone: 319 384-0938 Fax: 319 335-2951 Mobile: 319 540-2081 E-Mail: neil-john...@uiowa.edu From: Lee H Badman lhbad...@syr.edumailto:lhbad...@syr.edu Reply-To: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDUmailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU Date: Thursday, July 5, 2012 8:56 AM To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDUmailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDUmailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] You knew it was coming...Airplay/Apple TV support for instructors. ...or somehow have everyone on the Educause list sign a petition that gets presented to Apple- if you can gain entry into the Bubble of Blissful Perfection. From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv [WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDUmailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] on behalf of jkaf...@utica.edumailto:jkaf...@utica.edu [jkaf...@utica.edumailto:jkaf...@utica.edu] Sent: Thursday, July 05, 2012 9:10 AM To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDUmailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] You knew it was coming...Airplay/Apple TV support for instructors. Has anyone tried not supporting Bonjour and directing users who complain to Apple? Perhaps if we all did that it would get Apple's attention. John Kaftan Infrastructure Manager Utica College - Reply message - From: Andy Voelker avoel...@email.wcu.edumailto:avoel...@email.wcu.edu Date: Thu, Jul 5, 2012 8:23 am Subject: [WIRELESS-LAN] You knew it was coming...Airplay/Apple TV support for instructors. To: WIRELESS-LAN@listserv.educause.edumailto:WIRELESS-LAN@listserv.educause.edu Ours completely denied the existence of a possible issue. Of course, you could see in his eyes that his answer was somewhat forced... -- Andy Voelker Manager of Student Computing in the Technology Commons WCU Staff Senator Western Carolina University Check the status of your IT requests at any time at http://help.wcu.edu/ ! -Original Message- From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv [mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Kellogg, Brian D. Sent: Tuesday, July 03, 2012 5:48 PM To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDUmailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] You knew it was coming...Airplay/Apple TV support for instructors. I did and it was less productive than spitting into the wind. They really don't care and have the attitude that the consumer demand will dictate others find solutions to their protocol deficiencies. At least that was my impression. It still befuddles me you just can't plug in a FQDN or IP address for Airplay to connect to. Brian From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv [WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDUmailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Lee H Badman [lhbad...@syr.edumailto:lhbad...@syr.edu] Sent: Tuesday, July 03, 2012 10:15 AM To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDUmailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU Subject: Re: You knew it was coming...Airplay/Apple TV support for instructors. Has anyone else attempted to voice concern to their Apple reps about their non-business-class features and reliance on Bonjour on these gadgets? I know
Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] You knew it was coming...Airplay/Apple TV support for instructors.
How is this for a start :-) Whereas, we the undersigned academic and research institutions are receiving numerous requests from our faculty, staff, and students for the ability to utilize Airplay technology in classrooms, conference rooms, and other locations, here by solemnly request that Apple provide support or Airplay technology in enterprise wireless networks. Failure to provide this support severely limits the usefulness (and desirability) of Apple products in our institutions. At your earliest convenience please provide us with a roadmap for support of Airplay and related technologies in enterprise wireless environments. Thank you. - -Neil -- Neil Johnson Network Engineer The University of Iowa Phone: 319 384-0938 Fax: 319 335-2951 Mobile: 319 540-2081 E-Mail: neil-john...@uiowa.edu On 7/5/12 1:47 PM, Watters, John john.watt...@ua.edu wrote: I bet if you would write something up we could get signatures from just about every college and university. Do you have time to work up a short document that could be passed around on this list (and to others interested in this subject)? We need to convince (or coerce) Apple into playing nice in the enterprise space with all of their products. -jcw - John WattersUA: OIT 205-348-3992 -Original Message- From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv [mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Lee H Badman Sent: Thursday, July 05, 2012 1:05 PM To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] You knew it was coming...Airplay/Apple TV support for instructors. You mean a good-looking, man-of-action blogger? Hmmm. Let me call the agency, see if they have anyone on staff. I was thinking more like a couple of hundred well-known institutions of higher Ed all signing the same doc. Lee H. Badman Wireless/Network Engineer, ITS Adjunct Instructor, iSchool Syracuse University 315.443.3003 From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv [WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] on behalf of Johnson, Neil M [neil-john...@uiowa.edu] Sent: Thursday, July 05, 2012 1:23 PM To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] You knew it was coming...Airplay/Apple TV support for instructors. Or maybe a well known blogger could write an article about it.. :-) -Neil -- Neil Johnson Network Engineer The University of Iowa Phone: 319 384-0938 Fax: 319 335-2951 Mobile: 319 540-2081 E-Mail: neil-john...@uiowa.edu From: Lee H Badman lhbad...@syr.edumailto:lhbad...@syr.edu Reply-To: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDUmailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE. EDU Date: Thursday, July 5, 2012 8:56 AM To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDUmailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE. EDU WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDUmailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE. EDU Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] You knew it was coming...Airplay/Apple TV support for instructors. ...or somehow have everyone on the Educause list sign a petition that gets presented to Apple- if you can gain entry into the Bubble of Blissful Perfection. From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv [WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDUmailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE. EDU] on behalf of jkaf...@utica.edumailto:jkaf...@utica.edu [jkaf...@utica.edumailto:jkaf...@utica.edu] Sent: Thursday, July 05, 2012 9:10 AM To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDUmailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.E DU Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] You knew it was coming...Airplay/Apple TV support for instructors. Has anyone tried not supporting Bonjour and directing users who complain to Apple? Perhaps if we all did that it would get Apple's attention. John Kaftan Infrastructure Manager Utica College - Reply message - From: Andy Voelker avoel...@email.wcu.edumailto:avoel...@email.wcu.edu Date: Thu, Jul 5, 2012 8:23 am Subject: [WIRELESS-LAN] You knew it was coming...Airplay/Apple TV support for instructors. To: WIRELESS-LAN@listserv.educause.edumailto:WIRELESS-LAN@listserv.educause. edu Ours completely denied the existence of a possible issue. Of course, you could see in his eyes that his answer was somewhat forced... -- Andy Voelker Manager of Student Computing in the Technology Commons WCU Staff Senator Western Carolina University Check the status of your IT requests at any time at http://help.wcu.edu/ ! -Original Message- From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv [mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Kellogg, Brian D. Sent: Tuesday, July 03, 2012 5:48 PM To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDUmailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.E DU Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] You knew it was coming...Airplay/Apple TV support for instructors. I did and it was less productive than spitting into the wind. They really don't care
RE: [WIRELESS-LAN] You knew it was coming...Airplay/Apple TV support for instructors.
I'd add a short ans sweet bulleted list of what is lacking to become 'Enterprise Ready' . |Bruce Boardman, Network Engineer, Syracuse University - 315 889-1667 From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv [WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] on behalf of Johnson, Neil M [neil-john...@uiowa.edu] Sent: Thursday, July 05, 2012 3:09 PM To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] You knew it was coming...Airplay/Apple TV support for instructors. How is this for a start :-) Whereas, we the undersigned academic and research institutions are receiving numerous requests from our faculty, staff, and students for the ability to utilize Airplay technology in classrooms, conference rooms, and other locations, here by solemnly request that Apple provide support or Airplay technology in enterprise wireless networks. Failure to provide this support severely limits the usefulness (and desirability) of Apple products in our institutions. At your earliest convenience please provide us with a roadmap for support of Airplay and related technologies in enterprise wireless environments. Thank you. - -Neil -- Neil Johnson Network Engineer The University of Iowa Phone: 319 384-0938 Fax: 319 335-2951 Mobile: 319 540-2081 E-Mail: neil-john...@uiowa.edu On 7/5/12 1:47 PM, Watters, John john.watt...@ua.edu wrote: I bet if you would write something up we could get signatures from just about every college and university. Do you have time to work up a short document that could be passed around on this list (and to others interested in this subject)? We need to convince (or coerce) Apple into playing nice in the enterprise space with all of their products. -jcw - John WattersUA: OIT 205-348-3992 -Original Message- From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv [mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Lee H Badman Sent: Thursday, July 05, 2012 1:05 PM To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] You knew it was coming...Airplay/Apple TV support for instructors. You mean a good-looking, man-of-action blogger? Hmmm. Let me call the agency, see if they have anyone on staff. I was thinking more like a couple of hundred well-known institutions of higher Ed all signing the same doc. Lee H. Badman Wireless/Network Engineer, ITS Adjunct Instructor, iSchool Syracuse University 315.443.3003 From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv [WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] on behalf of Johnson, Neil M [neil-john...@uiowa.edu] Sent: Thursday, July 05, 2012 1:23 PM To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] You knew it was coming...Airplay/Apple TV support for instructors. Or maybe a well known blogger could write an article about it.. :-) -Neil -- Neil Johnson Network Engineer The University of Iowa Phone: 319 384-0938 Fax: 319 335-2951 Mobile: 319 540-2081 E-Mail: neil-john...@uiowa.edu From: Lee H Badman lhbad...@syr.edumailto:lhbad...@syr.edu Reply-To: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDUmailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE. EDU Date: Thursday, July 5, 2012 8:56 AM To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDUmailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE. EDU WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDUmailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE. EDU Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] You knew it was coming...Airplay/Apple TV support for instructors. ...or somehow have everyone on the Educause list sign a petition that gets presented to Apple- if you can gain entry into the Bubble of Blissful Perfection. From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv [WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDUmailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE. EDU] on behalf of jkaf...@utica.edumailto:jkaf...@utica.edu [jkaf...@utica.edumailto:jkaf...@utica.edu] Sent: Thursday, July 05, 2012 9:10 AM To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDUmailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.E DU Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] You knew it was coming...Airplay/Apple TV support for instructors. Has anyone tried not supporting Bonjour and directing users who complain to Apple? Perhaps if we all did that it would get Apple's attention. John Kaftan Infrastructure Manager Utica College - Reply message - From: Andy Voelker avoel...@email.wcu.edumailto:avoel...@email.wcu.edu Date: Thu, Jul 5, 2012 8:23 am Subject: [WIRELESS-LAN] You knew it was coming...Airplay/Apple TV support for instructors. To: WIRELESS-LAN@listserv.educause.edumailto:WIRELESS-LAN@listserv.educause. edu Ours completely denied the existence of a possible issue. Of course, you could see in his eyes that his answer was somewhat forced... -- Andy Voelker Manager of Student Computing in the Technology Commons WCU Staff Senator Western Carolina University Check
Apple Petition (Was Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] You knew it was coming...Airplay/Apple TV support for instructors.)
I'm a little fuzzy on the specifics things to request from Apple, but here is a first pass): Whereas, we the undersigned academic and research institutions are receiving numerous requests from our faculty, staff, and students for the ability to utilize Airplay technology in classrooms, conference rooms, and other locations, hereby solemnly request that Apple provide support for Airplay technology in enterprise wireless networks. Specifically, we request the following (in order of priority): * That Apple establish a way for the Apple TV (and other Airplay enabled devices) to be discoverable across multiple IPv4 and IPv6 subnets or lacking that: * That Apple establish a way for the Apple TV (and other Airplay enabled devices) to be easily statically configured to be accessible across multiple IPv4 and IPv6 subnets * That the Apple TV support Enterprise Wireless Encryption and Authentication (WPA2-Enterprise) * That authentication to the Apple TV be able to utilize enterprise authentication services (LDAP and/or AD) Failure to provide this support severely limits the usefulness (and desirability) of Apple products in our institutions. At your earliest convenience please provide us with a roadmap for support of Airplay and related technologies in enterprise wireless environments. Thank you. -- Neil Johnson Network Engineer The University of Iowa Phone: 319 384-0938 Fax: 319 335-2951 Mobile: 319 540-2081 E-Mail: neil-john...@uiowa.edu From: Watters, John john.watt...@ua.edumailto:john.watt...@ua.edu Reply-To: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDUmailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU Date: Thursday, July 5, 2012 2:23 PM To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDUmailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDUmailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] You knew it was coming...Airplay/Apple TV support for instructors. Whereas, we the undersigned academic and research institutions are receiving numerous requests from our faculty, staff, and students for the ability to utilize Airplay technology in classrooms, conference rooms, and other locations, here by solemnly request that Apple provide support or Airplay technology in enterprise wireless networks. Failure to provide this support severely limits the usefulness (and desirability) of Apple products in our institutions. At your earliest convenience please provide us with a roadmap for support of Airplay and related technologies in enterprise wireless environments. Thank you. ** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/.
RE: [WIRELESS-LAN] Apple Petition (Was Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] You knew it was coming...Airplay/Apple TV support for instructors.)
Pretty much what I was thinking (ballpark) with all Educause schools individually signed on. May not amount to anything, but would in itself be media fodder. Lee H. Badman Wireless/Network Engineer, ITS Adjunct Instructor, iSchool Syracuse University 315.443.3003 From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv [WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] on behalf of Johnson, Neil M [neil-john...@uiowa.edu] Sent: Thursday, July 05, 2012 3:37 PM To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU Subject: [WIRELESS-LAN] Apple Petition (Was Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] You knew it was coming...Airplay/Apple TV support for instructors.) I'm a little fuzzy on the specifics things to request from Apple, but here is a first pass): Whereas, we the undersigned academic and research institutions are receiving numerous requests from our faculty, staff, and students for the ability to utilize Airplay technology in classrooms, conference rooms, and other locations, hereby solemnly request that Apple provide support for Airplay technology in enterprise wireless networks. Specifically, we request the following (in order of priority): * That Apple establish a way for the Apple TV (and other Airplay enabled devices) to be discoverable across multiple IPv4 and IPv6 subnets or lacking that: * That Apple establish a way for the Apple TV (and other Airplay enabled devices) to be easily statically configured to be accessible across multiple IPv4 and IPv6 subnets * That the Apple TV support Enterprise Wireless Encryption and Authentication (WPA2-Enterprise) * That authentication to the Apple TV be able to utilize enterprise authentication services (LDAP and/or AD) Failure to provide this support severely limits the usefulness (and desirability) of Apple products in our institutions. At your earliest convenience please provide us with a roadmap for support of Airplay and related technologies in enterprise wireless environments. Thank you. -- Neil Johnson Network Engineer The University of Iowa Phone: 319 384-0938 Fax: 319 335-2951 Mobile: 319 540-2081 E-Mail: neil-john...@uiowa.edu From: Watters, John john.watt...@ua.edumailto:john.watt...@ua.edu Reply-To: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDUmailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU Date: Thursday, July 5, 2012 2:23 PM To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDUmailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDUmailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] You knew it was coming...Airplay/Apple TV support for instructors. Whereas, we the undersigned academic and research institutions are receiving numerous requests from our faculty, staff, and students for the ability to utilize Airplay technology in classrooms, conference rooms, and other locations, here by solemnly request that Apple provide support or Airplay technology in enterprise wireless networks. Failure to provide this support severely limits the usefulness (and desirability) of Apple products in our institutions. At your earliest convenience please provide us with a roadmap for support of Airplay and related technologies in enterprise wireless environments. Thank you. ** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/. ** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/.
Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Apple Petition (Was Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] You knew it was coming...Airplay/Apple TV support for instructors.)
You should add fast-roaming to the list. No Mac or iOS device supports fast roaming with Opportunistic Key Caching. They can do PMK Sticky, but it is not the same as OKC. With Sticky, it is only fast when you roam back to an AP you've been on, and the client can only cache up to 8 AP's. Curtis Larsen Wireless Network Engineer University of Utah 801-587-1313 On 07/05/2012 02:46 PM, Lee H Badman wrote: Pretty much what I was thinking (ballpark) with all Educause schools individually signed on. May not amount to anything, but would in itself be media fodder. Lee H. Badman Wireless/Network Engineer, ITS Adjunct Instructor, iSchool Syracuse University 315.443.3003 From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv [WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] on behalf of Johnson, Neil M [neil-john...@uiowa.edu] Sent: Thursday, July 05, 2012 3:37 PM To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU Subject: [WIRELESS-LAN] Apple Petition (Was Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] You knew it was coming...Airplay/Apple TV support for instructors.) I'm a little fuzzy on the specifics things to request from Apple, but here is a first pass): Whereas, we the undersigned academic and research institutions are receiving numerous requests from our faculty, staff, and students for the ability to utilize Airplay technology in classrooms, conference rooms, and other locations, hereby solemnly request that Apple provide support for Airplay technology in enterprise wireless networks. Specifically, we request the following (in order of priority): * That Apple establish a way for the Apple TV (and other Airplay enabled devices) to be discoverable across multiple IPv4 and IPv6 subnets or lacking that: * That Apple establish a way for the Apple TV (and other Airplay enabled devices) to be easily statically configured to be accessible across multiple IPv4 and IPv6 subnets * That the Apple TV support Enterprise Wireless Encryption and Authentication (WPA2-Enterprise) * That authentication to the Apple TV be able to utilize enterprise authentication services (LDAP and/or AD) Failure to provide this support severely limits the usefulness (and desirability) of Apple products in our institutions. At your earliest convenience please provide us with a roadmap for support of Airplay and related technologies in enterprise wireless environments. Thank you. -- Neil Johnson Network Engineer The University of Iowa Phone: 319 384-0938 Fax: 319 335-2951 Mobile: 319 540-2081 E-Mail: neil-john...@uiowa.edu From:Watters, Johnjohn.watt...@ua.edumailto:john.watt...@ua.edu Reply-To: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group ListservWIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDUmailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU Date: Thursday, July 5, 2012 2:23 PM To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDUmailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDUWIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDUmailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] You knew it was coming...Airplay/Apple TV support for instructors. Whereas, we the undersigned academic and research institutions are receiving numerous requests from our faculty, staff, and students for the ability to utilize Airplay technology in classrooms, conference rooms, and other locations, here by solemnly request that Apple provide support or Airplay technology in enterprise wireless networks. Failure to provide this support severely limits the usefulness (and desirability) of Apple products in our institutions. At your earliest convenience please provide us with a roadmap for support of Airplay and related technologies in enterprise wireless environments. Thank you. ** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/. ** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/. ** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/.
RE: [WIRELESS-LAN] Apple Petition (Was Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] You knew it was coming...Airplay/Apple TV support for instructors.)
So... two thoughts. Perhaps give it another week for people to chime in with their gripes and let the list discuss them? Then perhaps digital signatures- DocuSign is free and elegant. I guess also, a courtesy inquiry to Phillipe over whether he sees this as prudent list of the group is probably in order. Say, Phillipe- do you see this as prudent use of the list? Thanks, Lee Lee H. Badman Wireless/Network Engineer, ITS Adjunct Instructor, iSchool Syracuse University 315.443.3003 From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv [WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] on behalf of Curtis K. Larsen [curtis.k.lar...@utah.edu] Sent: Thursday, July 05, 2012 5:01 PM To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Apple Petition (Was Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] You knew it was coming...Airplay/Apple TV support for instructors.) You should add fast-roaming to the list. No Mac or iOS device supports fast roaming with Opportunistic Key Caching. They can do PMK Sticky, but it is not the same as OKC. With Sticky, it is only fast when you roam back to an AP you've been on, and the client can only cache up to 8 AP's. Curtis Larsen Wireless Network Engineer University of Utah 801-587-1313 On 07/05/2012 02:46 PM, Lee H Badman wrote: Pretty much what I was thinking (ballpark) with all Educause schools individually signed on. May not amount to anything, but would in itself be media fodder. Lee H. Badman Wireless/Network Engineer, ITS Adjunct Instructor, iSchool Syracuse University 315.443.3003 From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv [WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] on behalf of Johnson, Neil M [neil-john...@uiowa.edu] Sent: Thursday, July 05, 2012 3:37 PM To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU Subject: [WIRELESS-LAN] Apple Petition (Was Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] You knew it was coming...Airplay/Apple TV support for instructors.) I'm a little fuzzy on the specifics things to request from Apple, but here is a first pass): Whereas, we the undersigned academic and research institutions are receiving numerous requests from our faculty, staff, and students for the ability to utilize Airplay technology in classrooms, conference rooms, and other locations, hereby solemnly request that Apple provide support for Airplay technology in enterprise wireless networks. Specifically, we request the following (in order of priority): * That Apple establish a way for the Apple TV (and other Airplay enabled devices) to be discoverable across multiple IPv4 and IPv6 subnets or lacking that: * That Apple establish a way for the Apple TV (and other Airplay enabled devices) to be easily statically configured to be accessible across multiple IPv4 and IPv6 subnets * That the Apple TV support Enterprise Wireless Encryption and Authentication (WPA2-Enterprise) * That authentication to the Apple TV be able to utilize enterprise authentication services (LDAP and/or AD) Failure to provide this support severely limits the usefulness (and desirability) of Apple products in our institutions. At your earliest convenience please provide us with a roadmap for support of Airplay and related technologies in enterprise wireless environments. Thank you. -- Neil Johnson Network Engineer The University of Iowa Phone: 319 384-0938 Fax: 319 335-2951 Mobile: 319 540-2081 E-Mail: neil-john...@uiowa.edu From:Watters, Johnjohn.watt...@ua.edumailto:john.watt...@ua.edu Reply-To: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group ListservWIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDUmailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU Date: Thursday, July 5, 2012 2:23 PM To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDUmailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDUWIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDUmailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] You knew it was coming...Airplay/Apple TV support for instructors. Whereas, we the undersigned academic and research institutions are receiving numerous requests from our faculty, staff, and students for the ability to utilize Airplay technology in classrooms, conference rooms, and other locations, here by solemnly request that Apple provide support or Airplay technology in enterprise wireless networks. Failure to provide this support severely limits the usefulness (and desirability) of Apple products in our institutions. At your earliest convenience please provide us with a roadmap for support of Airplay and related technologies in enterprise wireless environments. Thank you. ** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/. ** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu
RE: [WIRELESS-LAN] You knew it was coming...Airplay/Apple TV support for instructors.
Ok, I'm confused. If you turn the AP's radios off, how do the wireless clients participate in Airplay? Frank -Original Message- From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv [mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Colleen Szymanik Sent: Wednesday, July 04, 2012 6:16 AM To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] You knew it was coming...Airplay/Apple TV support for instructors. We are up against the same issues. I've been playing around with Aerohive APs to get the small one off solutions for a few classrooms around campus. We decided to use 2 APs per classroom and turn off the radios. One AP lives on the wired segment to propagate the AppleTV to the wireless vlan where the other AP lives (radios are turned off). So, basically we just use the bonjour gateway functionality. We are still figuring out scalability issues, but for a few situations, this might get us by for a little while. We are also on the list to test AirGroup from Aruba as soon as we can get our hands on it. On Jul 3, 2012, at 10:07 PM, James Andrewartha jandrewar...@ccgs.wa.edu.au wrote: On 04/07/12 05:48, Kellogg, Brian D. wrote: I did and it was less productive than spitting into the wind. They really don't care and have the attitude that the consumer demand will dictate others find solutions to their protocol deficiencies. At least that was my impression. It still befuddles me you just can't plug in a FQDN or IP address for Airplay to connect to. What's worse is when you start having tens or hundreds of these devices on the network - it'd be very easy to fat-finger and Airplay to the wrong one. Thinking about wide-area DNS-SD, you could perhaps use DHCP option 82 to publish subdomains for DNS-SD that only publishes Apple TVs in the building of that AP or switch. I've no idea how you'd manage that sort of mapping though, doing it manually is out of the question, is there any software to manage that sort of thing? Thanks, -- James Andrewartha Network Projects Engineer Christ Church Grammar School Claremont, Western Australia Ph. (08) 9442 1757 Mob. 0424 160 877 ** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/. ** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/. ** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/.
Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] You knew it was coming...Airplay/Apple TV support for instructors.
On 7/4/2012 2:48 PM, Frank Bulk wrote: Ok, I'm confused. If you turn the AP's radios off, how do the wireless clients participate in Airplay? Most Apple TVs can do wired ethernet, which is a good thing. Many MacOS/iOS devices they want to use to project to them can not do wired ethernet. Typically your wireless subnets are not your wired subnets :) Thus something has to bridge the two for non-routed multicast Bonjour to work. Unfortunately, if you do this over your enterprise infrastructure, everything gets bridged and you lose the locality that Apple infers to be present in their Home / Small Office assumption of how Bonjour and their other crap should work (we're all one big happy family). Microsoft / Windows does it too, if you have been exposed to other similar things (wireless printers, projectors, etc); designed for one big happy family environment. Jeff ** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/.
Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] You knew it was coming...Airplay/Apple TV support for instructors.
Mike, For a one off and minimal investment, I would bring up an Open-WRT or DDRT AP (or any affordable AP that is capable of doing WPA2-enterprise) independent from your regular infrastructure and make people join a dedicated subnet for that room (use NAT, and WPA2-enterprise). Connect the Apple TV to the wired port of the AP and broadcast a dedicated SSID. With WPA2-enterprise joining your RADIUS server you can make it secure. It is a dirty solution, electromagnetically speaking, but quick. If the conference room has too may users for one AP, create a dedicated SSID just for that conference room on your existing infrastructure and terminate the VLAN of that SSID on the same VLAN as the AppleTV Philippe Hanset Univ. of TN www.eduroamus.org On Jul 3, 2012, at 9:06 AM, Mike King wrote: So I have Cisco Wireless, and I've just been asked to make Airplay work in a conference room. We do not have multicast enable (anywhere). Asking for details, I've been told it's only this one conference room. (I someone believe this, as it the only one that has a projector that get's any use) Suggestions for this as a one off? I have idea's one what to do for a campus wide deployment, but that will take me significantly longer to deploy, and my boss is asking me to have this done this week. Right now, we have a single WPA2/enterprise SSID, and the apple TV will most likely be wired (not required) Mike ** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/. ** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/.
RE: [WIRELESS-LAN] You knew it was coming...Airplay/Apple TV support for instructors.
Has anyone else attempted to voice concern to their Apple reps about their non-business-class features and reliance on Bonjour on these gadgets? I know they seem to listen to no one, and given their market share likely feel like they don't have to. But is anyone making the attempt to get feedback to Apple? The thought of architecting around non-standards-based toys just feels unpleasant. -Curious in Syracuse Lee H. Badman Wireless/Network Engineer Information Technology and Services Adjunct Instructor, iSchool Syracuse University 315 443-3003 -Original Message- From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv [mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Hanset, Philippe C Sent: Tuesday, July 03, 2012 10:03 AM To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] You knew it was coming...Airplay/Apple TV support for instructors. Mike, For a one off and minimal investment, I would bring up an Open-WRT or DDRT AP (or any affordable AP that is capable of doing WPA2-enterprise) independent from your regular infrastructure and make people join a dedicated subnet for that room (use NAT, and WPA2-enterprise). Connect the Apple TV to the wired port of the AP and broadcast a dedicated SSID. With WPA2-enterprise joining your RADIUS server you can make it secure. It is a dirty solution, electromagnetically speaking, but quick. If the conference room has too may users for one AP, create a dedicated SSID just for that conference room on your existing infrastructure and terminate the VLAN of that SSID on the same VLAN as the AppleTV Philippe Hanset Univ. of TN www.eduroamus.org On Jul 3, 2012, at 9:06 AM, Mike King wrote: So I have Cisco Wireless, and I've just been asked to make Airplay work in a conference room. We do not have multicast enable (anywhere). Asking for details, I've been told it's only this one conference room. (I someone believe this, as it the only one that has a projector that get's any use) Suggestions for this as a one off? I have idea's one what to do for a campus wide deployment, but that will take me significantly longer to deploy, and my boss is asking me to have this done this week. Right now, we have a single WPA2/enterprise SSID, and the apple TV will most likely be wired (not required) Mike ** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/. ** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/. ** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/.
Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] You knew it was coming...Airplay/Apple TV support for instructors.
What if you did something with DNS service discovery and setup dns records for appletv? We did this for airprint and doing a few quick google searches it looks like it may be possible with apple tv. http://grouper.ieee.org/groups/1722/contributions/Bonjour%20Device%20Discovery.pdf --- Craig Pluchinsky IT Services Indiana University of Pennsylvania 724-357-3327 On Tue, 3 Jul 2012, Mike King wrote: I voiced that solution and was shot down. If I do a separate SSID, on the same VLAN as the Apple TV, I'd still have to turn Multicast on on the controller, but I wouldn't have to roll out a PIM-SM deployment. Mike On Tue, Jul 3, 2012 at 10:03 AM, Hanset, Philippe C phan...@utk.edu wrote: Mike, For a one off and minimal investment, I would bring up an Open-WRT or DDRT AP (or any affordable AP that is capable of doing WPA2-enterprise) independent from your regular infrastructure and make people join a dedicated subnet for that room (use NAT, and WPA2-enterprise). Connect the Apple TV to the wired port of the AP and broadcast a dedicated SSID. With WPA2-enterprise joining your RADIUS server you can make it secure. It is a dirty solution, electromagnetically speaking, but quick. If the conference room has too may users for one AP, create a dedicated SSID just for that conference room on your existing infrastructure and terminate the VLAN of that SSID on the same VLAN as the AppleTV Philippe Hanset Univ. of TN www.eduroamus.org On Jul 3, 2012, at 9:06 AM, Mike King wrote: So I have Cisco Wireless, and I've just been asked to make Airplay work in a conference room. We do not have multicast enable (anywhere). Asking for details, I've been told it's only this one conference room. (I someone believe this, as it the only one that has a projector that get's any use) Suggestions for this as a one off? I have idea's one what to do for a campus wide deployment, but that will take me significantly longer to deploy, and my boss is asking me to have this done this week. Right now, we have a single WPA2/enterprise SSID, and the apple TV will most likely be wired (not required) Mike ** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/. ** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/. ** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/. ** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/.
RE: [WIRELESS-LAN] You knew it was coming...Airplay/Apple TV support for instructors.
Use your 'test' WLC to create a separate wireless network on which you can enable multicast? Of course we all have a 'test' controller for testing software updates etc. ;) Jen. From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv [mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Mike King Sent: 03 July 2012 15:35 To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] You knew it was coming...Airplay/Apple TV support for instructors. I voiced that solution and was shot down. If I do a separate SSID, on the same VLAN as the Apple TV, I'd still have to turn Multicast on on the controller, but I wouldn't have to roll out a PIM-SM deployment. Mike On Tue, Jul 3, 2012 at 10:03 AM, Hanset, Philippe C phan...@utk.edumailto:phan...@utk.edu wrote: Mike, For a one off and minimal investment, I would bring up an Open-WRT or DDRT AP (or any affordable AP that is capable of doing WPA2-enterprise) independent from your regular infrastructure and make people join a dedicated subnet for that room (use NAT, and WPA2-enterprise). Connect the Apple TV to the wired port of the AP and broadcast a dedicated SSID. With WPA2-enterprise joining your RADIUS server you can make it secure. It is a dirty solution, electromagnetically speaking, but quick. If the conference room has too may users for one AP, create a dedicated SSID just for that conference room on your existing infrastructure and terminate the VLAN of that SSID on the same VLAN as the AppleTV Philippe Hanset Univ. of TN www.eduroamus.orghttp://www.eduroamus.org On Jul 3, 2012, at 9:06 AM, Mike King wrote: So I have Cisco Wireless, and I've just been asked to make Airplay work in a conference room. We do not have multicast enable (anywhere). Asking for details, I've been told it's only this one conference room. (I someone believe this, as it the only one that has a projector that get's any use) Suggestions for this as a one off? I have idea's one what to do for a campus wide deployment, but that will take me significantly longer to deploy, and my boss is asking me to have this done this week. Right now, we have a single WPA2/enterprise SSID, and the apple TV will most likely be wired (not required) Mike ** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/. ** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/. ** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/. ** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/.
Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] You knew it was coming...Airplay/Apple TV support for instructors.
Mike, Why would you have to turn Multicast on? (I don't know how Cisco controllers operate by default, I have to admit) If the subnet is small enough leave it without multicast turned on (you don't need IGMP on your switches either) The multicast traffic will fallback to broadcast and Bonjour will work. If that subnet is not too big, it should work for that one off. Of course this will make the air a little dirty everywhere that SSID is present, but it's just for one location. Am I missing something here? Philippe On Jul 3, 2012, at 10:35 AM, Mike King wrote: I voiced that solution and was shot down. If I do a separate SSID, on the same VLAN as the Apple TV, I'd still have to turn Multicast on on the controller, but I wouldn't have to roll out a PIM-SM deployment. Mike On Tue, Jul 3, 2012 at 10:03 AM, Hanset, Philippe C phan...@utk.edumailto:phan...@utk.edu wrote: Mike, For a one off and minimal investment, I would bring up an Open-WRT or DDRT AP (or any affordable AP that is capable of doing WPA2-enterprise) independent from your regular infrastructure and make people join a dedicated subnet for that room (use NAT, and WPA2-enterprise). Connect the Apple TV to the wired port of the AP and broadcast a dedicated SSID. With WPA2-enterprise joining your RADIUS server you can make it secure. It is a dirty solution, electromagnetically speaking, but quick. If the conference room has too may users for one AP, create a dedicated SSID just for that conference room on your existing infrastructure and terminate the VLAN of that SSID on the same VLAN as the AppleTV Philippe Hanset Univ. of TN www.eduroamus.orghttp://www.eduroamus.org/ On Jul 3, 2012, at 9:06 AM, Mike King wrote: So I have Cisco Wireless, and I've just been asked to make Airplay work in a conference room. We do not have multicast enable (anywhere). Asking for details, I've been told it's only this one conference room. (I someone believe this, as it the only one that has a projector that get's any use) Suggestions for this as a one off? I have idea's one what to do for a campus wide deployment, but that will take me significantly longer to deploy, and my boss is asking me to have this done this week. Right now, we have a single WPA2/enterprise SSID, and the apple TV will most likely be wired (not required) Mike ** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/. ** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/. ** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/. ** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/.
RE: Betr.: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] You knew it was coming...Airplay/Apple TV support for instructors.
We have a solution we are using for our football stadium televisions, but the PoE boxes can sometimes become unresponsive and need the port bounced. They are the PoE version of the Enseo HD2000 LP, I believe. http://www.enseo.com/images/products/ProductPDFs/hd2000lp_v2.1.pdf If you want more information, contact ne off-list and I can connect you with our people who work with these devices. Bruce Osborne Network Engineer IT Network Services (434) 592-4229 LIBERTY UNIVERSITY 40 Years of Training Champions for Christ: 1971-2011 -Original Message- From: Kees Pronk [mailto:cl.pr...@avans.nl] Sent: Monday, March 05, 2012 2:32 PM Subject: Betr.: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] You knew it was coming...Airplay/Apple TV support for instructors. Jesse, Nice one! Looks way more promising to me than tinkering with all kinds of mcast setups on production (wlan) vlans Question : are there any 'non fruity stuff' comparable products for streaming video / screen content to projectors? Kees Jesse Safran safr...@greenmtn.edu 3/5/2012 8:10 Saw this today and it made me think of this thread. For anyone using Aerohive (or thinking of using it), they just released a new Bonjour Gateway: http://www.aerohive.com/company/press-releases/aerohive-demonstrates-industry-first-bonjour-gateway-enable-apple-airplay -Jesse On Fri, Feb 24, 2012 at 12:25 PM, Luke Jenkins ljenk...@weber.edu wrote: Awesome guide, I wouldn't have thought of using the Multicast VLAN feature to bridge bonjour between our 802.1x SSID and our PSK SSID. Thanks for passing on this document. We are doing a test (rather unsuccessfully) with one department on our campus, where I have both the AppleTVs and the i* devices doing airplay on our PSK network. It has been a rather large support investment to touch every device whenever apple nukes the config on the AppleTVs during a software upgrade. And as of the last month or so, whenever we turn on screen sharing, the APs force a re-auth of the AppleTVs. I was hoping that 7.2 would fix some bug that is causing this, but no luck so far. I turned on the Multicast VLAN feature on our .1x SSID (on a lab controller of course) and set it to the vlan of the PSK network. Now I can get the AppleTVs to re-auth using an i* device on our .1x SSID! Very exciting stuff here, thanks again for the doc. -Luke =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= Luke Jenkins Network Engineer Weber State University ljenk...@weber.edu On Feb 23, 2012, at 12:47 PM, Jeffrey Sessler wrote: Wanted to pass this on - it's not published yet on the Cisco site. It's an extensive Bonjour deployment guide for their controllers. Jeff On Thursday, February 23, 2012 at 10:37 AM, in message 23292fa80ecbbd4093a589cbe06e403311b85...@emaildbprod2.babson.edu, Thompson, William wthomp...@babson.edu wrote: I would request a point of clarification: 20 students? Or 20 devices? As others have observed, everyone is carrying more AP-interested gear, thus 20 students could actually correspond to 40-60 devices. No longer a one-student-one-device world. Would it be correct to infer 20 devices? -Original Message- From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv [mailto: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Osborne, Bruce W Sent: Thursday, February 23, 2012 12:14 PM To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] You knew it was coming...Airplay/Apple TV support for instructors. Where did you get that 12 client number?? At Liberty University, we have successfully had 20 students per AP with 5Mbit streams. In a Lab test situation, we had 30 clients all streaming on one AP-125 access point. Multicast on 802.11 uses the lowest rate which is 6Mbit for 5GHz networks. That is why Aruba developed their multicast technology. We have been using it since it was introduced. Bruce Osborne Network Engineer IT Network Services (434) 592-4229 LIBERTY UNIVERSITY 40 Years of Training Champions for Christ: 1971-2011 -Original Message- From: Brooks, Stan [mailto:stan.bro...@emory.edu] Sent: Wednesday, February 22, 2012 12:49 PM Subject: Re: You knew it was coming...Airplay/Apple TV support for instructors. So it's not just about the bandwidth. B'cast M'cast use the lowest configured data rate of the AP - just like wireless management frames. This means that even for 300Mbps 802.11n network is reduced to 24Mbps or less. That also ties up airtime that could be given to faster clients as well, since transmitting data at a lower data rate consumes more time that transmitting data at a higher data rate. So even if it is a low bit-rate stream, it takes away more available bandwidth from other clients. Aruba has a method that takes b'cast m'cast and converts it to higher speed unicast traffic to each client. This gives better results for about up to 12 clients
Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] You knew it was coming...Airplay/Apple TV support for instructors.
Saw this today and it made me think of this thread. For anyone using Aerohive (or thinking of using it), they just released a new Bonjour Gateway: http://www.aerohive.com/company/press-releases/aerohive-demonstrates-industry-first-bonjour-gateway-enable-apple-airplay -Jesse On Fri, Feb 24, 2012 at 12:25 PM, Luke Jenkins ljenk...@weber.edu wrote: Awesome guide, I wouldn't have thought of using the Multicast VLAN feature to bridge bonjour between our 802.1x SSID and our PSK SSID. Thanks for passing on this document. We are doing a test (rather unsuccessfully) with one department on our campus, where I have both the AppleTVs and the i* devices doing airplay on our PSK network. It has been a rather large support investment to touch every device whenever apple nukes the config on the AppleTVs during a software upgrade. And as of the last month or so, whenever we turn on screen sharing, the APs force a re-auth of the AppleTVs. I was hoping that 7.2 would fix some bug that is causing this, but no luck so far. I turned on the Multicast VLAN feature on our .1x SSID (on a lab controller of course) and set it to the vlan of the PSK network. Now I can get the AppleTVs to re-auth using an i* device on our .1x SSID! Very exciting stuff here, thanks again for the doc. -Luke =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= Luke Jenkins Network Engineer Weber State University ljenk...@weber.edu On Feb 23, 2012, at 12:47 PM, Jeffrey Sessler wrote: Wanted to pass this on - it's not published yet on the Cisco site. It's an extensive Bonjour deployment guide for their controllers. Jeff On Thursday, February 23, 2012 at 10:37 AM, in message 23292fa80ecbbd4093a589cbe06e403311b85...@emaildbprod2.babson.edu, Thompson, William wthomp...@babson.edu wrote: I would request a point of clarification: 20 students? Or 20 devices? As others have observed, everyone is carrying more AP-interested gear, thus 20 students could actually correspond to 40-60 devices. No longer a one-student-one-device world. Would it be correct to infer 20 devices? -Original Message- From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv [mailto: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Osborne, Bruce W Sent: Thursday, February 23, 2012 12:14 PM To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] You knew it was coming...Airplay/Apple TV support for instructors. Where did you get that 12 client number?? At Liberty University, we have successfully had 20 students per AP with 5Mbit streams. In a Lab test situation, we had 30 clients all streaming on one AP-125 access point. Multicast on 802.11 uses the lowest rate which is 6Mbit for 5GHz networks. That is why Aruba developed their multicast technology. We have been using it since it was introduced. Bruce Osborne Network Engineer IT Network Services (434) 592-4229 LIBERTY UNIVERSITY 40 Years of Training Champions for Christ: 1971-2011 -Original Message- From: Brooks, Stan [mailto:stan.bro...@emory.edu] Sent: Wednesday, February 22, 2012 12:49 PM Subject: Re: You knew it was coming...Airplay/Apple TV support for instructors. So it's not just about the bandwidth. B'cast M'cast use the lowest configured data rate of the AP - just like wireless management frames. This means that even for 300Mbps 802.11n network is reduced to 24Mbps or less. That also ties up airtime that could be given to faster clients as well, since transmitting data at a lower data rate consumes more time that transmitting data at a higher data rate. So even if it is a low bit-rate stream, it takes away more available bandwidth from other clients. Aruba has a method that takes b'cast m'cast and converts it to higher speed unicast traffic to each client. This gives better results for about up to 12 clients on an AP/radio. - Stan Brooks - CWNA/CWSP Emory University University Technology Services 404.727.0226 AIM/Y!/Twitter: WLANstan MSN: wlans...@hotmail.com GoogleTalk: wlans...@gmail.com -Original Message- From: Mike Goebel michael.goe...@wmich.edu Reply-To: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU Date: Wed, 22 Feb 2012 11:09:16 -0500 To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] You knew it was coming...Airplay/Apple TV support for instructors. Has anyone actually tracked how much bandwidth/usage Bonjour coughs up across their wlan infrastructure? I haven't analyzed it, and while it could be bandwidth hungry, it appears to me that will be more with device to device. I'm playing devils advocate here, but is a 6 meg stream on an N access point both ways really going to be crunching anyone? I'd be worried about G yes, but N with a gig uplink? I do find it unnerving that all the bonjour devices are able to find
Betr.: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] You knew it was coming...Airplay/Apple TV support for instructors.
Jesse, Nice one! Looks way more promising to me than tinkering with all kinds of mcast setups on production (wlan) vlans Question : are there any 'non fruity stuff' comparable products for streaming video / screen content to projectors? Kees Jesse Safran safr...@greenmtn.edu 3/5/2012 8:10 Saw this today and it made me think of this thread. For anyone using Aerohive (or thinking of using it), they just released a new Bonjour Gateway: http://www.aerohive.com/company/press-releases/aerohive-demonstrates-industry-first-bonjour-gateway-enable-apple-airplay -Jesse On Fri, Feb 24, 2012 at 12:25 PM, Luke Jenkins ljenk...@weber.edu wrote: Awesome guide, I wouldn't have thought of using the Multicast VLAN feature to bridge bonjour between our 802.1x SSID and our PSK SSID. Thanks for passing on this document. We are doing a test (rather unsuccessfully) with one department on our campus, where I have both the AppleTVs and the i* devices doing airplay on our PSK network. It has been a rather large support investment to touch every device whenever apple nukes the config on the AppleTVs during a software upgrade. And as of the last month or so, whenever we turn on screen sharing, the APs force a re-auth of the AppleTVs. I was hoping that 7.2 would fix some bug that is causing this, but no luck so far. I turned on the Multicast VLAN feature on our .1x SSID (on a lab controller of course) and set it to the vlan of the PSK network. Now I can get the AppleTVs to re-auth using an i* device on our .1x SSID! Very exciting stuff here, thanks again for the doc. -Luke =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= Luke Jenkins Network Engineer Weber State University ljenk...@weber.edu On Feb 23, 2012, at 12:47 PM, Jeffrey Sessler wrote: Wanted to pass this on - it's not published yet on the Cisco site. It's an extensive Bonjour deployment guide for their controllers. Jeff On Thursday, February 23, 2012 at 10:37 AM, in message 23292fa80ecbbd4093a589cbe06e403311b85...@emaildbprod2.babson.edu, Thompson, William wthomp...@babson.edu wrote: I would request a point of clarification: 20 students? Or 20 devices? As others have observed, everyone is carrying more AP-interested gear, thus 20 students could actually correspond to 40-60 devices. No longer a one-student-one-device world. Would it be correct to infer 20 devices? -Original Message- From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv [mailto: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Osborne, Bruce W Sent: Thursday, February 23, 2012 12:14 PM To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] You knew it was coming...Airplay/Apple TV support for instructors. Where did you get that 12 client number?? At Liberty University, we have successfully had 20 students per AP with 5Mbit streams. In a Lab test situation, we had 30 clients all streaming on one AP-125 access point. Multicast on 802.11 uses the lowest rate which is 6Mbit for 5GHz networks. That is why Aruba developed their multicast technology. We have been using it since it was introduced. Bruce Osborne Network Engineer IT Network Services (434) 592-4229 LIBERTY UNIVERSITY 40 Years of Training Champions for Christ: 1971-2011 -Original Message- From: Brooks, Stan [mailto:stan.bro...@emory.edu] Sent: Wednesday, February 22, 2012 12:49 PM Subject: Re: You knew it was coming...Airplay/Apple TV support for instructors. So it's not just about the bandwidth. B'cast M'cast use the lowest configured data rate of the AP - just like wireless management frames. This means that even for 300Mbps 802.11n network is reduced to 24Mbps or less. That also ties up airtime that could be given to faster clients as well, since transmitting data at a lower data rate consumes more time that transmitting data at a higher data rate. So even if it is a low bit-rate stream, it takes away more available bandwidth from other clients. Aruba has a method that takes b'cast m'cast and converts it to higher speed unicast traffic to each client. This gives better results for about up to 12 clients on an AP/radio. - Stan Brooks - CWNA/CWSP Emory University University Technology Services 404.727.0226 AIM/Y!/Twitter: WLANstan MSN: wlans...@hotmail.com GoogleTalk: wlans...@gmail.com -Original Message- From: Mike Goebel michael.goe...@wmich.edu Reply-To: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU Date: Wed, 22 Feb 2012 11:09:16 -0500 To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] You knew it was coming...Airplay/Apple TV support for instructors. Has anyone actually tracked how much bandwidth/usage Bonjour coughs up across their wlan infrastructure? I haven't analyzed it, and while it could be bandwidth hungry, it appears to me
Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] You knew it was coming...Airplay/Apple TV support for instructors.
Awesome guide, I wouldn't have thought of using the Multicast VLAN feature to bridge bonjour between our 802.1x SSID and our PSK SSID. Thanks for passing on this document. We are doing a test (rather unsuccessfully) with one department on our campus, where I have both the AppleTVs and the i* devices doing airplay on our PSK network. It has been a rather large support investment to touch every device whenever apple nukes the config on the AppleTVs during a software upgrade. And as of the last month or so, whenever we turn on screen sharing, the APs force a re-auth of the AppleTVs. I was hoping that 7.2 would fix some bug that is causing this, but no luck so far. I turned on the Multicast VLAN feature on our .1x SSID (on a lab controller of course) and set it to the vlan of the PSK network. Now I can get the AppleTVs to re-auth using an i* device on our .1x SSID! Very exciting stuff here, thanks again for the doc. -Luke =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= Luke Jenkins Network Engineer Weber State University ljenk...@weber.edu On Feb 23, 2012, at 12:47 PM, Jeffrey Sessler wrote: Wanted to pass this on - it's not published yet on the Cisco site. It's an extensive Bonjour deployment guide for their controllers. Jeff On Thursday, February 23, 2012 at 10:37 AM, in message 23292fa80ecbbd4093a589cbe06e403311b85...@emaildbprod2.babson.edu, Thompson, William wthomp...@babson.edu wrote: I would request a point of clarification: 20 students? Or 20 devices? As others have observed, everyone is carrying more AP-interested gear, thus 20 students could actually correspond to 40-60 devices. No longer a one-student-one-device world. Would it be correct to infer 20 devices? -Original Message- From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv [mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Osborne, Bruce W Sent: Thursday, February 23, 2012 12:14 PM To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] You knew it was coming...Airplay/Apple TV support for instructors. Where did you get that 12 client number?? At Liberty University, we have successfully had 20 students per AP with 5Mbit streams. In a Lab test situation, we had 30 clients all streaming on one AP-125 access point. Multicast on 802.11 uses the lowest rate which is 6Mbit for 5GHz networks. That is why Aruba developed their multicast technology. We have been using it since it was introduced. Bruce Osborne Network Engineer IT Network Services (434) 592-4229 LIBERTY UNIVERSITY 40 Years of Training Champions for Christ: 1971-2011 -Original Message- From: Brooks, Stan [mailto:stan.bro...@emory.edu] Sent: Wednesday, February 22, 2012 12:49 PM Subject: Re: You knew it was coming...Airplay/Apple TV support for instructors. So it's not just about the bandwidth. B'cast M'cast use the lowest configured data rate of the AP - just like wireless management frames. This means that even for 300Mbps 802.11n network is reduced to 24Mbps or less. That also ties up airtime that could be given to faster clients as well, since transmitting data at a lower data rate consumes more time that transmitting data at a higher data rate. So even if it is a low bit-rate stream, it takes away more available bandwidth from other clients. Aruba has a method that takes b'cast m'cast and converts it to higher speed unicast traffic to each client. This gives better results for about up to 12 clients on an AP/radio. - Stan Brooks - CWNA/CWSP Emory University University Technology Services 404.727.0226 AIM/Y!/Twitter: WLANstan MSN: wlans...@hotmail.com GoogleTalk: wlans...@gmail.com -Original Message- From: Mike Goebel michael.goe...@wmich.edu Reply-To: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU Date: Wed, 22 Feb 2012 11:09:16 -0500 To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] You knew it was coming...Airplay/Apple TV support for instructors. Has anyone actually tracked how much bandwidth/usage Bonjour coughs up across their wlan infrastructure? I haven't analyzed it, and while it could be bandwidth hungry, it appears to me that will be more with device to device. I'm playing devils advocate here, but is a 6 meg stream on an N access point both ways really going to be crunching anyone? I'd be worried about G yes, but N with a gig uplink? I do find it unnerving that all the bonjour devices are able to find each other and potentially create a lot of traffic, but 99.9% of the time I don't see anyone working any access point very hard. Mike Goebel Network Programmer Office of Information Technology Western Michigan University Phone: 269-387-0453 Email: michael.goe...@wmich.edu On 2/22/2012 10:18 AM, Kellogg, Brian D. wrote: We will need Bonjour in order to allow faculty members
Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] You knew it was coming...Airplay/Apple TV support for instructors.
Bruce - I was thinking of your installation when I responded as I was aware of your work with with Aruba to optimize b'cast/m'cast and converting b'cast/m'cast to unicast at the AP. I got the 12 client tradeoff point from something I remember for an Aruba AirHeads conference a couple of years ago. Granted, my memory may be fading, but I remember one of their engineers state that it is effective to do the conversion to unicast per client for up to ~12 clients, and after that, it's better to keep the packets m'cast. Sorry if I mis-spoke on the technology. - Stan Brooks - CWNA/CWSP Emory University University Technology Services 404.727.0226 AIM/Y!/Twitter: WLANstan MSN: wlans...@hotmail.com GoogleTalk: wlans...@gmail.com -Original Message- From: Osborne, Bruce W bosbo...@liberty.edu Reply-To: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU Date: Thu, 23 Feb 2012 17:14:06 + To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] You knew it was coming...Airplay/Apple TV support for instructors. Where did you get that 12 client number?? At Liberty University, we have successfully had 20 students per AP with 5Mbit streams. In a Lab test situation, we had 30 clients all streaming on one AP-125 access point. Multicast on 802.11 uses the lowest rate which is 6Mbit for 5GHz networks. That is why Aruba developed their multicast technology. We have been using it since it was introduced. Bruce Osborne Network Engineer IT Network Services (434) 592-4229 LIBERTY UNIVERSITY 40 Years of Training Champions for Christ: 1971-2011 -Original Message- From: Brooks, Stan [mailto:stan.bro...@emory.edu] Sent: Wednesday, February 22, 2012 12:49 PM Subject: Re: You knew it was coming...Airplay/Apple TV support for instructors. So it's not just about the bandwidth. B'cast M'cast use the lowest configured data rate of the AP - just like wireless management frames. This means that even for 300Mbps 802.11n network is reduced to 24Mbps or less. That also ties up airtime that could be given to faster clients as well, since transmitting data at a lower data rate consumes more time that transmitting data at a higher data rate. So even if it is a low bit-rate stream, it takes away more available bandwidth from other clients. Aruba has a method that takes b'cast m'cast and converts it to higher speed unicast traffic to each client. This gives better results for about up to 12 clients on an AP/radio. - Stan Brooks - CWNA/CWSP Emory University University Technology Services 404.727.0226 AIM/Y!/Twitter: WLANstan MSN: wlans...@hotmail.com GoogleTalk: wlans...@gmail.com -Original Message- From: Mike Goebel michael.goe...@wmich.edu Reply-To: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU Date: Wed, 22 Feb 2012 11:09:16 -0500 To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] You knew it was coming...Airplay/Apple TV support for instructors. Has anyone actually tracked how much bandwidth/usage Bonjour coughs up across their wlan infrastructure? I haven't analyzed it, and while it could be bandwidth hungry, it appears to me that will be more with device to device. I'm playing devils advocate here, but is a 6 meg stream on an N access point both ways really going to be crunching anyone? I'd be worried about G yes, but N with a gig uplink? I do find it unnerving that all the bonjour devices are able to find each other and potentially create a lot of traffic, but 99.9% of the time I don't see anyone working any access point very hard. Mike Goebel Network Programmer Office of Information Technology Western Michigan University Phone: 269-387-0453 Email: michael.goe...@wmich.edu On 2/22/2012 10:18 AM, Kellogg, Brian D. wrote: We will need Bonjour in order to allow faculty members to mirror their iPads/WhateverAppleProductElse to an AppleTV in a classroom for presentations wirelessly. Presently we block all mcast and bcast on our WLAN due to the channel use overhead this incurs (anywhere from 10% to 20%). We'll be moving to Aruba this summer where enabling bcast and mcast is not an all or nothing endeavor I believe. I think Aruba is integrating some stuff into their controller code to help with this problem or already has it. Someone who knows more about Aruba can correct me if I'm wrong. -Brian -Original Message- From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv [mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Brian David Sent: Wednesday, February 22, 2012 10:11 AM To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU Subject: Re: You knew it was coming...Airplay/Apple TV support for instructors. We are faced with the same issues here at BC... We are starting to block it for all students but have not for the Faculty. Could you give more details on what apps the faculty needed
RE: [WIRELESS-LAN] You knew it was coming...Airplay/Apple TV support for instructors.
I am currently not a fan of using ZeroConf service discovery (SD) protocols but I see two issues here. 1) multicast service across 802.11 infrastructure 2) ZeroConf-SD. Granted there are inherent obstacles for mcast over wireless, but I feel we first need better mcast functionality (specifically control) aiming to bring further access equality with respect to wired side. Beyond service discovery, there are certainly other services requiring mcast (ex. IPTV and IPv6). From what I'm able to do today in a Cisco v7.0.116 environment, I'm still hesitant to enable mcast on WLANs. My perceived concerns in enabling mcast are below - I'm interested in other's thoughts: 1) There's no control of clients sourcing mcast traffic [groups or rate] to wired/ wireless destinations within the WLAN subnet. Without such controls, it could put the infrastructure at risk (local AP air-time, BW, controller CPU?) potentially affecting other users. Wired subnets can suffer from the same, but controls could be implemented on the wired port or ultimately admin'd down. a. Including link-local or site-local relative scope groups ; Ex. I may want mcast to support v6 (along with RA source guard) but filter 224.0.0.251 between clients. i. Actually just found this Cisco wls IPv6 guide http://www.cisco.com/en/US/products/ps10315/products_tech_note09186a0080bae 506.shtml#sourcegrd for 7.2 - nice! Although no mention of ACLs. 2) If mcast were enabled using Cisco Videostream methods, I believe any WLAN requested mcast data would end up at every AP, whether to be sent (unicast) to clients or dropped. Ideally I'd rather not have it go to APs where it's not requested but also realize it may not be wise to have the controller replicating packets - tough nut to crack. With regard to Zeroconf protocols (mDNS, SSDP, SLP, and LLMNR) 1) In large environments, ZeroConf protocols could be chatty which may a. be a local air-time concern. b. finding resources in a sea of advertised services seen in a 'browser' could be daunting for users. 2) ZeroConf protocols would not work as expected by users where a single SSID represents many distinct subnets ; adding confusion and increased calls to the helpdesk. a. Thanks to JeffSessler for posting the Bonjour doc - although there seem some interesting caveats, the vlan pooling/multicast VLAN feature seem a method aiming to solve this. 3) Even once mcast hurdles are overcome, to me, SD still seems more sanely operated/managed using DNS-SD. Lastly, re: Airplay specifically, is/can the content stream be mcast'd from the source? Assume that if not today, it would eventually appear. From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv [mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Jeffrey Sessler Sent: Thursday, February 23, 2012 2:48 PM To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] You knew it was coming...Airplay/Apple TV support for instructors. Wanted to pass this on - it's not published yet on the Cisco site. It's an extensive Bonjour deployment guide for their controllers. Jeff On Thursday, February 23, 2012 at 10:37 AM, in message 23292fa80ecbbd4093a589cbe06e403311b85...@emaildbprod2.babson.edu, Thompson, William wthomp...@babson.edu wrote: I would request a point of clarification: 20 students? Or 20 devices? As others have observed, everyone is carrying more AP-interested gear, thus 20 students could actually correspond to 40-60 devices. No longer a one-student-one-device world. Would it be correct to infer 20 devices? -Original Message- From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv [mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Osborne, Bruce W Sent: Thursday, February 23, 2012 12:14 PM To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] You knew it was coming...Airplay/Apple TV support for instructors. Where did you get that 12 client number?? At Liberty University, we have successfully had 20 students per AP with 5Mbit streams. In a Lab test situation, we had 30 clients all streaming on one AP-125 access point. Multicast on 802.11 uses the lowest rate which is 6Mbit for 5GHz networks. That is why Aruba developed their multicast technology. We have been using it since it was introduced. Bruce Osborne Network Engineer IT Network Services (434) 592-4229 LIBERTY UNIVERSITY 40 Years of Training Champions for Christ: 1971-2011 -Original Message- From: Brooks, Stan [mailto:stan.bro...@emory.edu] Sent: Wednesday, February 22, 2012 12:49 PM Subject: Re: You knew it was coming...Airplay/Apple TV support for instructors. So it's not just about the bandwidth. B'cast M'cast use the lowest configured data rate of the AP - just like wireless management frames. This means that even for 300Mbps 802.11n network is reduced to 24Mbps or less
Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] You knew it was coming...Airplay/Apple TV support for instructors.
Loved the comment on ATK, IPX, Neteui. Like Yogi Berra said this is like deja vu all over again! At 08:54 AM 2/22/2012, you wrote: Agreed. We are blocking bonjour between buildings, but not within. I wanted to block within, but there are apps out there that the faculty want to use that require it. That was the compromise I settled on... looking forward to 802.11ac now. I thought my days of dealing with AppleTalk, IPX and Netbeui were done. -Brian -Original Message- From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv [mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Kellogg, Brian D. Sent: Tuesday, February 21, 2012 5:21 PM To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] You knew it was coming...Airplay/Apple TV support for instructors. Had an Apple rep in recently and he stated Apple (Bonjour) has come a long way since Appletalk on their network protocols. I wanted to believe him and then I tried to use it on our campus. LAN only protocol that relies on mDNS registration to bridge networks assuming all your end devices support it of course. Reminds me of LAN/SOHO only protocols I worked with a decade ago. Why not allow the device being mirrored to specify the device you want to mirror to by IP address or FQDN. I don't think I'm asking for too much from the man but, alas, perhaps I am. Disappointed yet again by Apple network protocols, Brian ** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/.
Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] You knew it was coming...Airplay/Apple TV support for instructors.
On 2/22/2012 10:07 AM, Fred Mowchan wrote: Loved the comment on ATK, IPX, Neteui. Like Yogi Berra said this is like deja vu all over again! Yes, routing breaks traditional AT, IPX, NetBEUI, etc. So what clown woke up and said Hey! Let's just multicast it, that's routable... Jeff ** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/.
Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] You knew it was coming...Airplay/Apple TV support for instructors.
Has anyone actually tracked how much bandwidth/usage Bonjour coughs up across their wlan infrastructure? I haven't analyzed it, and while it could be bandwidth hungry, it appears to me that will be more with device to device. I'm playing devils advocate here, but is a 6 meg stream on an N access point both ways really going to be crunching anyone? I'd be worried about G yes, but N with a gig uplink? I do find it unnerving that all the bonjour devices are able to find each other and potentially create a lot of traffic, but 99.9% of the time I don't see anyone working any access point very hard. Mike Goebel Network Programmer Office of Information Technology Western Michigan University Phone: 269-387-0453 Email: michael.goe...@wmich.edu On 2/22/2012 10:18 AM, Kellogg, Brian D. wrote: We will need Bonjour in order to allow faculty members to mirror their iPads/WhateverAppleProductElse to an AppleTV in a classroom for presentations wirelessly. Presently we block all mcast and bcast on our WLAN due to the channel use overhead this incurs (anywhere from 10% to 20%). We'll be moving to Aruba this summer where enabling bcast and mcast is not an all or nothing endeavor I believe. I think Aruba is integrating some stuff into their controller code to help with this problem or already has it. Someone who knows more about Aruba can correct me if I'm wrong. -Brian -Original Message- From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv [mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Brian David Sent: Wednesday, February 22, 2012 10:11 AM To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU Subject: Re: You knew it was coming...Airplay/Apple TV support for instructors. We are faced with the same issues here at BC... We are starting to block it for all students but have not for the Faculty. Could you give more details on what apps the faculty needed bonjour for? -Brian Brian J David Network Systems Engineer Boston College -Original Message- From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv [mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Brian Helman Sent: Wednesday, February 22, 2012 9:54 AM To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] You knew it was coming...Airplay/Apple TV support for instructors. Agreed. We are blocking bonjour between buildings, but not within. I wanted to block within, but there are apps out there that the faculty want to use that require it. That was the compromise I settled on... looking forward to 802.11ac now. I thought my days of dealing with AppleTalk, IPX and Netbeui were done. -Brian -Original Message- From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv [mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Kellogg, Brian D. Sent: Tuesday, February 21, 2012 5:21 PM To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] You knew it was coming...Airplay/Apple TV support for instructors. Had an Apple rep in recently and he stated Apple (Bonjour) has come a long way since Appletalk on their network protocols. I wanted to believe him and then I tried to use it on our campus. LAN only protocol that relies on mDNS registration to bridge networks assuming all your end devices support it of course. Reminds me of LAN/SOHO only protocols I worked with a decade ago. Why not allow the device being mirrored to specify the device you want to mirror to by IP address or FQDN. I don't think I'm asking for too much from the man but, alas, perhaps I am. Disappointed yet again by Apple network protocols, Brian -Original Message- From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv [mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Lee H Badman Sent: Tuesday, February 21, 2012 4:57 PM To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU Subject: Re: You knew it was coming...Airplay/Apple TV support for instructors. Would be interesting to contemplate a petition or similar from the Educause members to Apple requesting that they catch up to the fact that their toys are invading the enterprise, that the enterprise doesn't run on AirPorts, and therefor they might develop towards the enterprise WLAN, Then again, I doubt they'd give a rip. It's a shame that the sexiest devices on the planet have such shallow network development behind them. -Lee From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv [WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] on behalf of Cappalli, Tim G @ LSC-ITS [tim.cappa...@lsc.vsc.edu] Sent: Tuesday, February 21, 2012 4:36 PM To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] You knew it was coming...Airplay/Apple TV support for instructors. It's time for Apple step up. How many hundreds of hours are we going to spend on this? For the first time in a long time, we are saying no for the time being. Tim Cappalli, CCNA ACMA | IT Services | (802) 626-6456
RE: [WIRELESS-LAN] You knew it was coming...Airplay/Apple TV support for instructors.
To me, it's less about bandwidth than it is expectations that you'll change the network design to accommodate these things because some of the require all devices to be on the same class C subnet, don't do 1x for security, etc. -Lee -Original Message- From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv [mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Mike Goebel Sent: Wednesday, February 22, 2012 11:09 AM To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] You knew it was coming...Airplay/Apple TV support for instructors. Has anyone actually tracked how much bandwidth/usage Bonjour coughs up across their wlan infrastructure? I haven't analyzed it, and while it could be bandwidth hungry, it appears to me that will be more with device to device. I'm playing devils advocate here, but is a 6 meg stream on an N access point both ways really going to be crunching anyone? I'd be worried about G yes, but N with a gig uplink? I do find it unnerving that all the bonjour devices are able to find each other and potentially create a lot of traffic, but 99.9% of the time I don't see anyone working any access point very hard. Mike Goebel Network Programmer Office of Information Technology Western Michigan University Phone: 269-387-0453 Email: michael.goe...@wmich.edu On 2/22/2012 10:18 AM, Kellogg, Brian D. wrote: We will need Bonjour in order to allow faculty members to mirror their iPads/WhateverAppleProductElse to an AppleTV in a classroom for presentations wirelessly. Presently we block all mcast and bcast on our WLAN due to the channel use overhead this incurs (anywhere from 10% to 20%). We'll be moving to Aruba this summer where enabling bcast and mcast is not an all or nothing endeavor I believe. I think Aruba is integrating some stuff into their controller code to help with this problem or already has it. Someone who knows more about Aruba can correct me if I'm wrong. -Brian -Original Message- From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv [mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Brian David Sent: Wednesday, February 22, 2012 10:11 AM To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU Subject: Re: You knew it was coming...Airplay/Apple TV support for instructors. We are faced with the same issues here at BC... We are starting to block it for all students but have not for the Faculty. Could you give more details on what apps the faculty needed bonjour for? -Brian Brian J David Network Systems Engineer Boston College -Original Message- From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv [mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Brian Helman Sent: Wednesday, February 22, 2012 9:54 AM To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] You knew it was coming...Airplay/Apple TV support for instructors. Agreed. We are blocking bonjour between buildings, but not within. I wanted to block within, but there are apps out there that the faculty want to use that require it. That was the compromise I settled on... looking forward to 802.11ac now. I thought my days of dealing with AppleTalk, IPX and Netbeui were done. -Brian -Original Message- From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv [mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Kellogg, Brian D. Sent: Tuesday, February 21, 2012 5:21 PM To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] You knew it was coming...Airplay/Apple TV support for instructors. Had an Apple rep in recently and he stated Apple (Bonjour) has come a long way since Appletalk on their network protocols. I wanted to believe him and then I tried to use it on our campus. LAN only protocol that relies on mDNS registration to bridge networks assuming all your end devices support it of course. Reminds me of LAN/SOHO only protocols I worked with a decade ago. Why not allow the device being mirrored to specify the device you want to mirror to by IP address or FQDN. I don't think I'm asking for too much from the man but, alas, perhaps I am. Disappointed yet again by Apple network protocols, Brian -Original Message- From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv [mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Lee H Badman Sent: Tuesday, February 21, 2012 4:57 PM To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU Subject: Re: You knew it was coming...Airplay/Apple TV support for instructors. Would be interesting to contemplate a petition or similar from the Educause members to Apple requesting that they catch up to the fact that their toys are invading the enterprise, that the enterprise doesn't run on AirPorts, and therefor they might develop towards the enterprise WLAN, Then again, I doubt they'd give a rip. It's a shame that the sexiest devices on the planet have such shallow
Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] You knew it was coming...Airplay/Apple TV support for instructors.
I assumed with mDNS it didn't just hit it's local subnet. I've been on the nightmare side of getting Audio/Video stuff to talk over IP with hundreds of classrooms and that isn't a whole lot of fun either. Mike Goebel Network Programmer Office of Information Technology Western Michigan University Phone: 269-387-0453 Email: michael.goe...@wmich.edu On 2/22/2012 11:42 AM, Lee H Badman wrote: To me, it's less about bandwidth than it is expectations that you'll change the network design to accommodate these things because some of the require all devices to be on the same class C subnet, don't do 1x for security, etc. -Lee -Original Message- From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv [mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Mike Goebel Sent: Wednesday, February 22, 2012 11:09 AM To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] You knew it was coming...Airplay/Apple TV support for instructors. Has anyone actually tracked how much bandwidth/usage Bonjour coughs up across their wlan infrastructure? I haven't analyzed it, and while it could be bandwidth hungry, it appears to me that will be more with device to device. I'm playing devils advocate here, but is a 6 meg stream on an N access point both ways really going to be crunching anyone? I'd be worried about G yes, but N with a gig uplink? I do find it unnerving that all the bonjour devices are able to find each other and potentially create a lot of traffic, but 99.9% of the time I don't see anyone working any access point very hard. Mike Goebel Network Programmer Office of Information Technology Western Michigan University Phone: 269-387-0453 Email: michael.goe...@wmich.edu On 2/22/2012 10:18 AM, Kellogg, Brian D. wrote: We will need Bonjour in order to allow faculty members to mirror their iPads/WhateverAppleProductElse to an AppleTV in a classroom for presentations wirelessly. Presently we block all mcast and bcast on our WLAN due to the channel use overhead this incurs (anywhere from 10% to 20%). We'll be moving to Aruba this summer where enabling bcast and mcast is not an all or nothing endeavor I believe. I think Aruba is integrating some stuff into their controller code to help with this problem or already has it. Someone who knows more about Aruba can correct me if I'm wrong. -Brian -Original Message- From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv [mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Brian David Sent: Wednesday, February 22, 2012 10:11 AM To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU Subject: Re: You knew it was coming...Airplay/Apple TV support for instructors. We are faced with the same issues here at BC... We are starting to block it for all students but have not for the Faculty. Could you give more details on what apps the faculty needed bonjour for? -Brian Brian J David Network Systems Engineer Boston College -Original Message- From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv [mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Brian Helman Sent: Wednesday, February 22, 2012 9:54 AM To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] You knew it was coming...Airplay/Apple TV support for instructors. Agreed. We are blocking bonjour between buildings, but not within. I wanted to block within, but there are apps out there that the faculty want to use that require it. That was the compromise I settled on... looking forward to 802.11ac now. I thought my days of dealing with AppleTalk, IPX and Netbeui were done. -Brian -Original Message- From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv [mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Kellogg, Brian D. Sent: Tuesday, February 21, 2012 5:21 PM To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] You knew it was coming...Airplay/Apple TV support for instructors. Had an Apple rep in recently and he stated Apple (Bonjour) has come a long way since Appletalk on their network protocols. I wanted to believe him and then I tried to use it on our campus. LAN only protocol that relies on mDNS registration to bridge networks assuming all your end devices support it of course. Reminds me of LAN/SOHO only protocols I worked with a decade ago. Why not allow the device being mirrored to specify the device you want to mirror to by IP address or FQDN. I don't think I'm asking for too much from the man but, alas, perhaps I am. Disappointed yet again by Apple network protocols, Brian -Original Message- From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv [mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Lee H Badman Sent: Tuesday, February 21, 2012 4:57 PM To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU Subject: Re: You knew it was coming...Airplay/Apple TV support for instructors. Would be interesting to contemplate a petition or similar from the Educause
RE: [WIRELESS-LAN] You knew it was coming...Airplay/Apple TV support for instructors.
My concern isn't so much the bandwidth associated with active connections between these devices as it is the discovery process. All the bonjour enabled devices are constantly attempting to discover other such devices, most of which there's no value to the user in connecting to. If, like we do, you have large b-cast domains, that discovery traffic bogs down an 802.11n network and can cripple an a/g network. IP or FQDN access to these devices would allow clients to connect selectively to devices they need to use, while keeping the excessive discovery traffic of the network. Chuck Enfield Sr. Communications Engineer Telecommunications Networking Services The Pennsylvania State University 110H, USB2, UP, PA 16802 ph: 814.863.8715 fx: 814.865-3988 -Original Message- From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv [mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Mike Goebel Sent: Wednesday, February 22, 2012 12:08 PM To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] You knew it was coming...Airplay/Apple TV support for instructors. I assumed with mDNS it didn't just hit it's local subnet. I've been on the nightmare side of getting Audio/Video stuff to talk over IP with hundreds of classrooms and that isn't a whole lot of fun either. Mike Goebel Network Programmer Office of Information Technology Western Michigan University Phone: 269-387-0453 Email: michael.goe...@wmich.edu On 2/22/2012 11:42 AM, Lee H Badman wrote: To me, it's less about bandwidth than it is expectations that you'll change the network design to accommodate these things because some of the require all devices to be on the same class C subnet, don't do 1x for security, etc. -Lee -Original Message- From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv [mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Mike Goebel Sent: Wednesday, February 22, 2012 11:09 AM To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] You knew it was coming...Airplay/Apple TV support for instructors. Has anyone actually tracked how much bandwidth/usage Bonjour coughs up across their wlan infrastructure? I haven't analyzed it, and while it could be bandwidth hungry, it appears to me that will be more with device to device. I'm playing devils advocate here, but is a 6 meg stream on an N access point both ways really going to be crunching anyone? I'd be worried about G yes, but N with a gig uplink? I do find it unnerving that all the bonjour devices are able to find each other and potentially create a lot of traffic, but 99.9% of the time I don't see anyone working any access point very hard. Mike Goebel Network Programmer Office of Information Technology Western Michigan University Phone: 269-387-0453 Email: michael.goe...@wmich.edu On 2/22/2012 10:18 AM, Kellogg, Brian D. wrote: We will need Bonjour in order to allow faculty members to mirror their iPads/WhateverAppleProductElse to an AppleTV in a classroom for presentations wirelessly. Presently we block all mcast and bcast on our WLAN due to the channel use overhead this incurs (anywhere from 10% to 20%). We'll be moving to Aruba this summer where enabling bcast and mcast is not an all or nothing endeavor I believe. I think Aruba is integrating some stuff into their controller code to help with this problem or already has it. Someone who knows more about Aruba can correct me if I'm wrong. -Brian -Original Message- From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv [mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Brian David Sent: Wednesday, February 22, 2012 10:11 AM To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU Subject: Re: You knew it was coming...Airplay/Apple TV support for instructors. We are faced with the same issues here at BC... We are starting to block it for all students but have not for the Faculty. Could you give more details on what apps the faculty needed bonjour for? -Brian Brian J David Network Systems Engineer Boston College -Original Message- From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv [mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Brian Helman Sent: Wednesday, February 22, 2012 9:54 AM To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] You knew it was coming...Airplay/Apple TV support for instructors. Agreed. We are blocking bonjour between buildings, but not within. I wanted to block within, but there are apps out there that the faculty want to use that require it. That was the compromise I settled on... looking forward to 802.11ac now. I thought my days of dealing with AppleTalk, IPX and Netbeui were done. -Brian -Original Message- From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv [mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Kellogg, Brian D. Sent: Tuesday, February 21, 2012 5:21 PM To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU Subject
Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] You knew it was coming...Airplay/Apple TV support for instructors.
So it's not just about the bandwidth. B'cast M'cast use the lowest configured data rate of the AP - just like wireless management frames. This means that even for 300Mbps 802.11n network is reduced to 24Mbps or less. That also ties up airtime that could be given to faster clients as well, since transmitting data at a lower data rate consumes more time that transmitting data at a higher data rate. So even if it is a low bit-rate stream, it takes away more available bandwidth from other clients. Aruba has a method that takes b'cast m'cast and converts it to higher speed unicast traffic to each client. This gives better results for about up to 12 clients on an AP/radio. - Stan Brooks - CWNA/CWSP Emory University University Technology Services 404.727.0226 AIM/Y!/Twitter: WLANstan MSN: wlans...@hotmail.com GoogleTalk: wlans...@gmail.com -Original Message- From: Mike Goebel michael.goe...@wmich.edu Reply-To: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU Date: Wed, 22 Feb 2012 11:09:16 -0500 To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] You knew it was coming...Airplay/Apple TV support for instructors. Has anyone actually tracked how much bandwidth/usage Bonjour coughs up across their wlan infrastructure? I haven't analyzed it, and while it could be bandwidth hungry, it appears to me that will be more with device to device. I'm playing devils advocate here, but is a 6 meg stream on an N access point both ways really going to be crunching anyone? I'd be worried about G yes, but N with a gig uplink? I do find it unnerving that all the bonjour devices are able to find each other and potentially create a lot of traffic, but 99.9% of the time I don't see anyone working any access point very hard. Mike Goebel Network Programmer Office of Information Technology Western Michigan University Phone: 269-387-0453 Email: michael.goe...@wmich.edu On 2/22/2012 10:18 AM, Kellogg, Brian D. wrote: We will need Bonjour in order to allow faculty members to mirror their iPads/WhateverAppleProductElse to an AppleTV in a classroom for presentations wirelessly. Presently we block all mcast and bcast on our WLAN due to the channel use overhead this incurs (anywhere from 10% to 20%). We'll be moving to Aruba this summer where enabling bcast and mcast is not an all or nothing endeavor I believe. I think Aruba is integrating some stuff into their controller code to help with this problem or already has it. Someone who knows more about Aruba can correct me if I'm wrong. -Brian -Original Message- From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv [mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Brian David Sent: Wednesday, February 22, 2012 10:11 AM To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU Subject: Re: You knew it was coming...Airplay/Apple TV support for instructors. We are faced with the same issues here at BC... We are starting to block it for all students but have not for the Faculty. Could you give more details on what apps the faculty needed bonjour for? -Brian Brian J David Network Systems Engineer Boston College -Original Message- From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv [mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Brian Helman Sent: Wednesday, February 22, 2012 9:54 AM To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] You knew it was coming...Airplay/Apple TV support for instructors. Agreed. We are blocking bonjour between buildings, but not within. I wanted to block within, but there are apps out there that the faculty want to use that require it. That was the compromise I settled on... looking forward to 802.11ac now. I thought my days of dealing with AppleTalk, IPX and Netbeui were done. -Brian -Original Message- From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv [mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Kellogg, Brian D. Sent: Tuesday, February 21, 2012 5:21 PM To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] You knew it was coming...Airplay/Apple TV support for instructors. Had an Apple rep in recently and he stated Apple (Bonjour) has come a long way since Appletalk on their network protocols. I wanted to believe him and then I tried to use it on our campus. LAN only protocol that relies on mDNS registration to bridge networks assuming all your end devices support it of course. Reminds me of LAN/SOHO only protocols I worked with a decade ago. Why not allow the device being mirrored to specify the device you want to mirror to by IP address or FQDN. I don't think I'm asking for too much from the man but, alas, perhaps I am. Disappointed yet again by Apple network protocols, Brian -Original Message- From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv [mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf
RE: [WIRELESS-LAN] You knew it was coming...Airplay/Apple TV support for instructors.
I assume this also correlates with the size of client subnets and your supported data rates. We're using /22s, so are a bit concerned. -Original Message- From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv [mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Mike Goebel Sent: Wednesday, February 22, 2012 11:09 To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] You knew it was coming...Airplay/Apple TV support for instructors. Has anyone actually tracked how much bandwidth/usage Bonjour coughs up across their wlan infrastructure? I haven't analyzed it, and while it could be bandwidth hungry, it appears to me that will be more with device to device. I'm playing devils advocate here, but is a 6 meg stream on an N access point both ways really going to be crunching anyone? I'd be worried about G yes, but N with a gig uplink? I do find it unnerving that all the bonjour devices are able to find each other and potentially create a lot of traffic, but 99.9% of the time I don't see anyone working any access point very hard. Mike Goebel Network Programmer Office of Information Technology Western Michigan University Phone: 269-387-0453 Email: michael.goe...@wmich.edu On 2/22/2012 10:18 AM, Kellogg, Brian D. wrote: We will need Bonjour in order to allow faculty members to mirror their iPads/WhateverAppleProductElse to an AppleTV in a classroom for presentations wirelessly. Presently we block all mcast and bcast on our WLAN due to the channel use overhead this incurs (anywhere from 10% to 20%). We'll be moving to Aruba this summer where enabling bcast and mcast is not an all or nothing endeavor I believe. I think Aruba is integrating some stuff into their controller code to help with this problem or already has it. Someone who knows more about Aruba can correct me if I'm wrong. -Brian -Original Message- From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv [mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Brian David Sent: Wednesday, February 22, 2012 10:11 AM To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU Subject: Re: You knew it was coming...Airplay/Apple TV support for instructors. We are faced with the same issues here at BC... We are starting to block it for all students but have not for the Faculty. Could you give more details on what apps the faculty needed bonjour for? -Brian Brian J David Network Systems Engineer Boston College -Original Message- From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv [mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Brian Helman Sent: Wednesday, February 22, 2012 9:54 AM To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] You knew it was coming...Airplay/Apple TV support for instructors. Agreed. We are blocking bonjour between buildings, but not within. I wanted to block within, but there are apps out there that the faculty want to use that require it. That was the compromise I settled on... looking forward to 802.11ac now. I thought my days of dealing with AppleTalk, IPX and Netbeui were done. -Brian -Original Message- From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv [mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Kellogg, Brian D. Sent: Tuesday, February 21, 2012 5:21 PM To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] You knew it was coming...Airplay/Apple TV support for instructors. Had an Apple rep in recently and he stated Apple (Bonjour) has come a long way since Appletalk on their network protocols. I wanted to believe him and then I tried to use it on our campus. LAN only protocol that relies on mDNS registration to bridge networks assuming all your end devices support it of course. Reminds me of LAN/SOHO only protocols I worked with a decade ago. Why not allow the device being mirrored to specify the device you want to mirror to by IP address or FQDN. I don't think I'm asking for too much from the man but, alas, perhaps I am. Disappointed yet again by Apple network protocols, Brian -Original Message- From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv [mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Lee H Badman Sent: Tuesday, February 21, 2012 4:57 PM To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU Subject: Re: You knew it was coming...Airplay/Apple TV support for instructors. Would be interesting to contemplate a petition or similar from the Educause members to Apple requesting that they catch up to the fact that their toys are invading the enterprise, that the enterprise doesn't run on AirPorts, and therefor they might develop towards the enterprise WLAN, Then again, I doubt they'd give a rip. It's a shame that the sexiest devices on the planet have such shallow network development behind them. -Lee From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless
Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] You knew it was coming...Airplay/Apple TV support for instructors.
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On 2/22/2012 3:38 PM, Julian Y Koh wrote: On Wed Feb 22 2012 09:24:46 Central Time, Jeff Kell wrote: Yes, routing breaks traditional AT, IPX, NetBEUI, etc. AppleTalk and IPX at least are totally routable protocols. :) Well, you and I know that, but the Appletalk and IPX people didn't necessarily know that... :) Jeff -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (MingW32) iEYEARECAAYFAk9FU0oACgkQiwXJq373XhZpEQCg9RhjrJXlwinLAofaT7Rjvh3U 7tUAnjuNM3UG93mnsVLR4bbATSiZv1xY =nO8G -END PGP SIGNATURE- ** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/.
Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] You knew it was coming...Airplay/Apple TV support for instructors.
It's my understanding, at least in the 7.x train of Cisco wireless, that multicast data is transmitted at the highest basic (required) rate. Management frames can also be set to use the highest basic rate and/or kept at the lowest basic rate. Of course, transmitting at the highest basic rate does require smaller cell sizes. There is no client limit that I'm aware of, but even if it was 12 like Aruba, my cells are small enough that it would be rare to see that many clients on a single radio. Cisco also introduced a new multicast optimization in 7.0.116, so when using VLAN pooling, you wind up with only a single multicast stream no matter how many VLANs are in the pool. This is a big plus if say you have 10 clients all on the same AP, but all in different VLANs. Instead of 10 copies (1 per VLAN) of the multicast stream going out over the air, there is only one that all clients listen to. Jeff On Wednesday, February 22, 2012 at 9:49 AM, in message cb6a92f7.2586b%stan.bro...@emory.edu, Brooks, Stan stan.bro...@emory.edu wrote: So it's not just about the bandwidth. B'cast M'cast use the lowest configured data rate of the AP - just like wireless management frames. This means that even for 300Mbps 802.11n network is reduced to 24Mbps or less. That also ties up airtime that could be given to faster clients as well, since transmitting data at a lower data rate consumes more time that transmitting data at a higher data rate. So even if it is a low bit-rate stream, it takes away more available bandwidth from other clients. Aruba has a method that takes b'cast m'cast and converts it to higher speed unicast traffic to each client. This gives better results for about up to 12 clients on an AP/radio. - Stan Brooks - CWNA/CWSP Emory University University Technology Services 404.727.0226 AIM/Y!/Twitter: WLANstan MSN: wlans...@hotmail.com GoogleTalk: wlans...@gmail.com -Original Message- From: Mike Goebel michael.goe...@wmich.edu Reply-To: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU Date: Wed, 22 Feb 2012 11:09:16 -0500 To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] You knew it was coming...Airplay/Apple TV support for instructors. Has anyone actually tracked how much bandwidth/usage Bonjour coughs up across their wlan infrastructure? I haven't analyzed it, and while it could be bandwidth hungry, it appears to me that will be more with device to device. I'm playing devils advocate here, but is a 6 meg stream on an N access point both ways really going to be crunching anyone? I'd be worried about G yes, but N with a gig uplink? I do find it unnerving that all the bonjour devices are able to find each other and potentially create a lot of traffic, but 99.9% of the time I don't see anyone working any access point very hard. Mike Goebel Network Programmer Office of Information Technology Western Michigan University Phone: 269-387-0453 Email: michael.goe...@wmich.edu On 2/22/2012 10:18 AM, Kellogg, Brian D. wrote: We will need Bonjour in order to allow faculty members to mirror their iPads/WhateverAppleProductElse to an AppleTV in a classroom for presentations wirelessly. Presently we block all mcast and bcast on our WLAN due to the channel use overhead this incurs (anywhere from 10% to 20%). We'll be moving to Aruba this summer where enabling bcast and mcast is not an all or nothing endeavor I believe. I think Aruba is integrating some stuff into their controller code to help with this problem or already has it. Someone who knows more about Aruba can correct me if I'm wrong. -Brian -Original Message- From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv [mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Brian David Sent: Wednesday, February 22, 2012 10:11 AM To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU Subject: Re: You knew it was coming...Airplay/Apple TV support for instructors. We are faced with the same issues here at BC... We are starting to block it for all students but have not for the Faculty. Could you give more details on what apps the faculty needed bonjour for? -Brian Brian J David Network Systems Engineer Boston College -Original Message- From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv [mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Brian Helman Sent: Wednesday, February 22, 2012 9:54 AM To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] You knew it was coming...Airplay/Apple TV support for instructors. Agreed. We are blocking bonjour between buildings, but not within. I wanted to block within, but there are apps out there that the faculty want to use that require it. That was the compromise I settled on... looking forward to 802.11ac now. I thought my days of dealing with AppleTalk, IPX and Netbeui were done. -Brian -Original Message- From: The EDUCAUSE
Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] You knew it was coming...Airplay/Apple TV support for instructors.
I just heard an interesting solution for this. Since AppleTV is already consumer tech and does not need Internet (their classroom use is pretty much just AirPlay), the person went out and bought a cheap $30 wireless router off the shelf at Walmart for each AppleTV. Each device is now on its own unrouted subnet, and bonjour can do what it wants in that space. Sent from my iPod On Feb 22, 2012, at 9:43 AM, Craig Eyre ce...@mtroyal.ca wrote: Hey All, We are looking into a similar solution but I'm more concerned about what others have thought about the following. 1. Management of the apple tv's 2. security of the devices 3. Non apple devices connecting? 4. Would you hardwire or do wifi for the apple tv box itself? We have roughly 300 classrooms with projectors and that seems like a management nightmare, but maybe I'm missing all the peices. Regards, Craig Eyre Network Analyst IT Services Department Mount Royal University 4825 Mount Royal Gate SW Calgary AB T2P 3T5 P. 403.440.5199 E. ce...@mtroyal.ca The difference between a successful person and others is not a lack of strength, not a lack of knowledge, but rather in a lack of will. Vincent T. Lombardi From:Cappalli, Tim G @ LSC-ITS tim.cappa...@lsc.vsc.edu To:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU Date:02/22/2012 08:38 AM Subject:Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] You knew it was coming...Airplay/Apple TV support for instructors. Sent by:The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU Aruba will be addressing the Bonjour issue in a future release. I heard it is going into beta soon. If I remember correctly, they will provide a way to tunnel the bonjour traffic to the AppleTV without routing and without allowing all broadcast and multicast traffic. Tim Cappalli, CCNA ACMA | IT Services | (802) 626-6456 » tim.cappa...@lyndonstate.edu | it.lyndonstate.edu (Embedded image moved to file: pic24778.jpg)Description: Description: T:\IT Staff\Lyndon ITS Logo Package\LyndonITS\LyndonITS_Md-emailsig.jpg PRIVACY CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE This message is for the designated recipient only and may contain privileged, confidential, or otherwise private information. If you have received it in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete the original. Any other use of an email received in error is prohibited. -Original Message- From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv [ mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Kellogg, Brian D. Sent: Wednesday, February 22, 2012 10:18 AM To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] You knew it was coming...Airplay/Apple TV support for instructors. We will need Bonjour in order to allow faculty members to mirror their iPads/WhateverAppleProductElse to an AppleTV in a classroom for presentations wirelessly. Presently we block all mcast and bcast on our WLAN due to the channel use overhead this incurs (anywhere from 10% to 20%). We'll be moving to Aruba this summer where enabling bcast and mcast is not an all or nothing endeavor I believe. I think Aruba is integrating some stuff into their controller code to help with this problem or already has it. Someone who knows more about Aruba can correct me if I'm wrong. -Brian -Original Message- From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv [mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Brian David Sent: Wednesday, February 22, 2012 10:11 AM To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU Subject: Re: You knew it was coming...Airplay/Apple TV support for instructors. We are faced with the same issues here at BC... We are starting to block it for all students but have not for the Faculty. Could you give more details on what apps the faculty needed bonjour for? -Brian Brian J David Network Systems Engineer Boston College -Original Message- From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv [mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Brian Helman Sent: Wednesday, February 22, 2012 9:54 AM To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] You knew it was coming...Airplay/Apple TV support for instructors. Agreed. We are blocking bonjour between buildings, but not within. I wanted to block within, but there are apps out there that the faculty want to use that require it. That was the compromise I settled on... looking forward to 802.11ac now. I thought my days of dealing with AppleTalk, IPX and Netbeui were done. -Brian -Original Message- From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv [mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Kellogg, Brian D. Sent: Tuesday, February 21, 2012 5:21 PM To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] You knew it was coming...Airplay/Apple TV
RE: [WIRELESS-LAN] You knew it was coming...Airplay/Apple TV support for instructors.
And a 35-50 mW noise maker sits among several low-power cells, where there is no such this as a spare channel. Most WLAN policies cover RF and forbid this sort of thing... the wired network is part of the issue, competing wireless is another. -Lee -Original Message- From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv [mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Joel Coehoorn Sent: Wednesday, February 22, 2012 9:21 PM To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] You knew it was coming...Airplay/Apple TV support for instructors. I just heard an interesting solution for this. Since AppleTV is already consumer tech and does not need Internet (their classroom use is pretty much just AirPlay), the person went out and bought a cheap $30 wireless router off the shelf at Walmart for each AppleTV. Each device is now on its own unrouted subnet, and bonjour can do what it wants in that space. Sent from my iPod On Feb 22, 2012, at 9:43 AM, Craig Eyre ce...@mtroyal.ca wrote: Hey All, We are looking into a similar solution but I'm more concerned about what others have thought about the following. 1. Management of the apple tv's 2. security of the devices 3. Non apple devices connecting? 4. Would you hardwire or do wifi for the apple tv box itself? We have roughly 300 classrooms with projectors and that seems like a management nightmare, but maybe I'm missing all the peices. Regards, Craig Eyre Network Analyst IT Services Department Mount Royal University 4825 Mount Royal Gate SW Calgary AB T2P 3T5 P. 403.440.5199 E. ce...@mtroyal.ca The difference between a successful person and others is not a lack of strength, not a lack of knowledge, but rather in a lack of will. Vincent T. Lombardi From:Cappalli, Tim G @ LSC-ITS tim.cappa...@lsc.vsc.edu To:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU Date:02/22/2012 08:38 AM Subject:Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] You knew it was coming...Airplay/Apple TV support for instructors. Sent by:The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU Aruba will be addressing the Bonjour issue in a future release. I heard it is going into beta soon. If I remember correctly, they will provide a way to tunnel the bonjour traffic to the AppleTV without routing and without allowing all broadcast and multicast traffic. Tim Cappalli, CCNA ACMA | IT Services | (802) 626-6456 » tim.cappa...@lyndonstate.edu | it.lyndonstate.edu (Embedded image moved to file: pic24778.jpg)Description: Description: T:\IT Staff\Lyndon ITS Logo Package\LyndonITS\LyndonITS_Md-emailsig.jpg PRIVACY CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE This message is for the designated recipient only and may contain privileged, confidential, or otherwise private information. If you have received it in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete the original. Any other use of an email received in error is prohibited. -Original Message- From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv [ mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Kellogg, Brian D. Sent: Wednesday, February 22, 2012 10:18 AM To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] You knew it was coming...Airplay/Apple TV support for instructors. We will need Bonjour in order to allow faculty members to mirror their iPads/WhateverAppleProductElse to an AppleTV in a classroom for presentations wirelessly. Presently we block all mcast and bcast on our WLAN due to the channel use overhead this incurs (anywhere from 10% to 20%). We'll be moving to Aruba this summer where enabling bcast and mcast is not an all or nothing endeavor I believe. I think Aruba is integrating some stuff into their controller code to help with this problem or already has it. Someone who knows more about Aruba can correct me if I'm wrong. -Brian -Original Message- From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv [mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Brian David Sent: Wednesday, February 22, 2012 10:11 AM To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU Subject: Re: You knew it was coming...Airplay/Apple TV support for instructors. We are faced with the same issues here at BC... We are starting to block it for all students but have not for the Faculty. Could you give more details on what apps the faculty needed bonjour for? -Brian Brian J David Network Systems Engineer Boston College -Original Message- From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv [mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Brian Helman Sent: Wednesday, February 22, 2012 9:54 AM To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] You knew it was coming...Airplay/Apple TV support for instructors. Agreed. We are blocking bonjour between buildings
Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] You knew it was coming...Airplay/Apple TV support for instructors.
On 2/22/2012 9:21 PM, Joel Coehoorn wrote: I just heard an interesting solution for this. Since AppleTV is already consumer tech and does not need Internet (their classroom use is pretty much just AirPlay), the person went out and bought a cheap $30 wireless router off the shelf at Walmart for each AppleTV. Each device is now on its own unrouted subnet, and bonjour can do what it wants in that space. We considered that, but one or both of them (TV or instructor device) is going to want internet too but can only connect to one SSID, and you're adding to the unmanaged RF interference in a potentially noisy area already. Jeff ** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/.
Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] You knew it was coming...Airplay/Apple TV support for instructors.
It looks like an AppleTV2 running the latest code advertises _airplay._tcp and _raop._tcp. Here are some additional details using dns-sd on a mac running OS X 10.7. The AppleTV is named te-206d-atv1 and the mac address is partially obfuscated to XX:XX:DA:09:XX:XX- ~$ dns-sd -B _airplay._tcp Browsing for _airplay._tcp Timestamp A/R Flags if DomainService Type Instance Name 10:50:32.624 Add 2 4 local._airplay._tcp. te-206d-atv1 ~$ dns-sd -L te-206d-atv1 _airplay._tcp Lookup te-206d-atv1._airplay._tcp.local 10:47:10.757 te-206d-atv1._airplay._tcp.local. can be reached at te-206d-atv1.local.:7000 (interface 4) deviceid=XX:XX:DA:09:XX:XX features=0x39f7 model=AppleTV2,1 pw=1 srcvers=120.2 ~$ dns-sd -B _raop._tcp Browsing for _raop._tcp Timestamp A/R Flags if DomainService Type Instance Name 10:50:23.129 Add 2 4 local._raop._tcp. DA09@te-206d-atv1 ~$ dns-sd -L DA09@te-206d-atv1 _raop._tcp. Lookup DA09@te-206d-atv1._raop._tcp..local 10:51:42.277 DA09@te-206d-atv1._raop._tcp.local. can be reached at te-206d-atv1.local.:49152 (interface 4) txtvers=1 ch=2 cn=0,1,2,3 da=true et=0,3 md=0,1,2 pw=true sv=false sr=44100 ss=16 tp=UDP vn=65537 vs=120.2 am=AppleTV2,1 sf=0x4 Same details using Bonjour Browser (some details redacted)- http://imgur.com/lwRsh I hope this helps. -Luke Jenkins Network Analyst Weber State University On Dec 17, 2011, at 11:50 AM, Luke Jenkins wrote: If you have access to a mac and an AppleTV, fire both up on a shared lan segment. Install and run Bonjour Browser (http://www.tildesoft.com/ ) and look for a service type that has your AppleTV listed as a client with that service. You could also get the same info with wireshark on any computer if you want to decode the bonjour packets. While heading into the office to help out is tempting, I have too much to get done this weekend. I'll do so on Monday and report back with the values. -Luke Jenkins Network Analyst Weber State University On Dec 16, 2011, at 4:17 PM, Johnson, Neil M wrote: If we are going to do this, implementing static wide area bonjour entries seems the way to go. Thanks for the references, but the one thing I can't find is the format for the SRV and TXT records for an Apple TV. If anyone has those I'd be grateful for them, I have an Apple TV device in my hands now, so if someone has a suggestion on how to reverse engineer them, I'd appreciate it. Thanks. -Neil -- Neil Johnson Network Engineer The University of Iowa Phone: 319 384-0938 Fax: 319 335-2951 Mobile: 319 540-2081 E-Mail: neil-john...@uiowa.edu On 12/16/11 3:31 PM, Jason Healy jhe...@logn.net wrote: On Dec 16, 2011, at 4:18 PM, Luke Jenkins wrote: I forgot to add background reading for anyone else crazy enough to try to get this working: We're crazy enough to do all our printer advertisements this way (we're an all-Apple campus). We publish a wide-area DNS-SD subdomain and advertise all our printers there. We then block all multicast advertisements from end users to prevent people from sharing their devices directly. When Mac users open their printer selection box, all of our official printers auto-populate into the list. Haven't tried anything with AppleTVs (don't have any official ones yet), but if the process is the same then it shouldn't be too hard to do. We've scripted the creation of the DNS-SD domain from a central set of config data, and it just barfs out the needed BIND files. Happy to provide sample records if anyone is interested. Jason -- Jason Healy|jhe...@logn.net| http://www.logn.net/ ** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/. ** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/. ** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/. ** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/.
Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] You knew it was coming...Airplay/Apple TV support for instructors.
We have had similar requests / queries about this in particular, as well as other general wireless server roles for devices (e.g., printers, projectors). We also suppress multicast/broadcast, and are not equipped for wireless servers. I shudder to think if Airplay was default open, just how long it would take some students to project something inappropriate to any/all available monitors... The standalone AP concept by itself would work, but unless you let the AP route to your network, would preclude the instructor's device from being on the network while connected to the projection AP. We have tried to get wired connectivity for all server offerings (printers, projectors, etc) and allow wireless to access them that way. You could support a wireless-only device with a standalone AP in bridging mode, but now you're pushing another SSID / channel / RF interference for the rest of your production wireless. Most of that also applies if you do a special SSID off of the campus wireless. So at this point we are strongly discouraging any wireless server resources. Jeff On 12/16/2011 12:16 PM, Johnson, Neil M wrote: We have a request to support Airplay/Apple TV's on our enterprise network so that instructors can mirror presentations from their iPad's to classroom and meeting room projectors. For performance reasons, we suppress multicast on our wireless networks and to conserve IP address space we dynamically assign users to wireless subnets so that two devices in a room may be on different IP subnets. So for right now it's not possible on our network. Of course the next question we get asked is if instructors can bring in their own temporary access points to do this. I'm wondering what other institutions responses are to request like these? Do you have an official policy? Thanks. -Neil ** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/.
RE: [WIRELESS-LAN] You knew it was coming...Airplay/Apple TV support for instructors.
This is where I daydream about the likes of several Apple engineers reading this list, thinking Gee, maybe we should consider how to make our toys work in the actual enterprise. It seems that these higher ed folks have real networks that we don't always play well with at times. BYOD- bring your own dilemma. Lee H. Badman Wireless/Network Engineer, ITS Adjunct Instructor, iSchool Syracuse University 315.443.3003 From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv [WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] on behalf of Jeff Kell [jeff-k...@utc.edu] Sent: Friday, December 16, 2011 12:34 PM To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] You knew it was coming...Airplay/Apple TV support for instructors. We have had similar requests / queries about this in particular, as well as other general wireless server roles for devices (e.g., printers, projectors). We also suppress multicast/broadcast, and are not equipped for wireless servers. I shudder to think if Airplay was default open, just how long it would take some students to project something inappropriate to any/all available monitors... The standalone AP concept by itself would work, but unless you let the AP route to your network, would preclude the instructor's device from being on the network while connected to the projection AP. We have tried to get wired connectivity for all server offerings (printers, projectors, etc) and allow wireless to access them that way. You could support a wireless-only device with a standalone AP in bridging mode, but now you're pushing another SSID / channel / RF interference for the rest of your production wireless. Most of that also applies if you do a special SSID off of the campus wireless. So at this point we are strongly discouraging any wireless server resources. Jeff On 12/16/2011 12:16 PM, Johnson, Neil M wrote: We have a request to support Airplay/Apple TV's on our enterprise network so that instructors can mirror presentations from their iPad's to classroom and meeting room projectors. For performance reasons, we suppress multicast on our wireless networks and to conserve IP address space we dynamically assign users to wireless subnets so that two devices in a room may be on different IP subnets. So for right now it's not possible on our network. Of course the next question we get asked is if instructors can bring in their own temporary access points to do this. I'm wondering what other institutions responses are to request like these? Do you have an official policy? Thanks. -Neil ** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/. ** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/.
Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] You knew it was coming...Airplay/Apple TV support for instructors.
York College is installing an AppleTV in every networked classroom over the next year. This is in support of a 1:1 iPod Touch program we use. We're tiny relative to U of Iowa, but if any of this helps, here's how we're making it happen: Classroom buildings are set so that users in the same building should be on the same subnet. We're small enough this is not a problem for us. Where possible, we're using a wired connection to the AppleTV and setting it to the same vlan as the wired network. Right, that's only two rooms, but the thought of streaming video up to the access point and back to the AppleTV for a single device makes me cringe. Most of our classrooms are in older buildings. There's only one wired network drop to the room, and adding more will be problematic. To alleviate this, we're looking into small switches in rooms, to support the instructor PC, a wireless access point, a byod network port, the AppleTV, and a projector connection, and in a few cases a printer all of the same original drop. At (count 'em) up to 6 devices per room plus the uplink, we think that will be the better way to go. Multicast is enabled within each subnet. This is for every subnet across the board. Again, we try to keep it to exactly one subnet per building, and as an admin when I enter a building I know which subnet I should get. This is great for students, because their Apple toys all tend to work the way they want, but the amount of traffic across campus (especially on inter-building fiber links) is still reasonable. This is done mainly because of our 1:1 iPod Touch program... it just wouldn't do to have those and not be able to use them well, and even PC users will have iTunes. As a much larger institution, Iowa may need to think about dividing building into wings or floors, as well. Make sure to set the AppleTVs to never sleep, and name them after the classroom. Make sure to education faculty on how to switch inputs between the computer and AppleTV. Even faculty who never use the AppleTV will need to know how to switch a projector back to the computer input after the prior faculty member left it set to AppleTV. Joel Coehoorn IT Director York College, Nebraska 402.363.5603 jcoeho...@york.edu On Fri, Dec 16, 2011 at 11:50 AM, Jeff Kell jeff-k...@utc.edu wrote: On 12/16/2011 12:47 PM, Lee H Badman wrote: This is where I daydream about the likes of several Apple engineers reading this list, thinking Gee, maybe we should consider how to make our toys work in the actual enterprise. It seems that these higher ed folks have real networks that we don't always play well with at times. BYOD- bring your own dilemma. Yes, we try to counter Bonjour and Rendezvous with Au Revoir :) Jeff ** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/. ** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/.
Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] You knew it was coming...Airplay/Apple TV support for instructors.
I forgot to add background reading for anyone else crazy enough to try to get this working: Info on Wide Area Bonjour and setup instructions (OS X Server centric instructions): http://www.afp548.com/article.php?story=20090205204942121 http://www.afp548.com/article.php?story=20090225001154457 Setting up a Test Server to experiment with Wide-Area DNS-SD: http://www.dns-sd.org/ServerTestSetup.html Manually Adding DNS-SD Service Discovery Records to an Existing Name Server: http://www.dns-sd.org/ServerStaticSetup.html Best of luck to everyone. -Luke Jenkins Network Analyst Weber State University On Dec 16, 2011, at 1:46 PM, Luke Jenkins wrote: We here at Weber State have also had numerous Apple TV/Airplay Screen Sharing requests. The solution that we are working on long term is as follows: 1. Wired ports + DHCP reservations for the Apple TVs with a standardized naming convention (building code-room number-atvX) 2. Wide Area Bonjour/DNS-SD Service Discovery Records for every registered Apple TV 3. i* devices on the 802.1x wireless network with a search domain that references the DNS-SD servers We ran into a snag when our Infoblox appliances wouldn't let us add the funky PTR records needed to make WAB/DNS-SD work, and we haven't had time to get on the phone with their support to figure out a work around/put in a feature request. The big questions that remain (even if this hair brained plan works) are: 1. What happens when an i* device has dozens or hundreds of AppleTVs available to it? Is the UI designed in such a way to allow an instructor to quickly select the AppleTV for the room that they are in? 2. How do we keep the AppleTVs secure from bored or crafty students brute forcing the passwords? -Luke Jenkins Network Analyst Weber State University On Dec 16, 2011, at 10:16 AM, Johnson, Neil M wrote: We have a request to support Airplay/Apple TV's on our enterprise network so that instructors can mirror presentations from their iPad's to classroom and meeting room projectors. For performance reasons, we suppress multicast on our wireless networks and to conserve IP address space we dynamically assign users to wireless subnets so that two devices in a room may be on different IP subnets. So for right now it's not possible on our network. Of course the next question we get asked is if instructors can bring in their own temporary access points to do this. I'm wondering what other institutions responses are to request like these? Do you have an official policy? Thanks. -Neil -- Neil Johnson Network Engineer The University of Iowa Phone: 319 384-0938 Fax: 319 335-2951 Mobile: 319 540-2081 E-Mail: neil-john...@uiowa.edu ** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/. ** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/. ** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/.
Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] You knew it was coming...Airplay/Apple TV support for instructors.
If we are going to do this, implementing static wide area bonjour entries seems the way to go. Thanks for the references, but the one thing I can't find is the format for the SRV and TXT records for an Apple TV. If anyone has those I'd be grateful for them, I have an Apple TV device in my hands now, so if someone has a suggestion on how to reverse engineer them, I'd appreciate it. Thanks. -Neil -- Neil Johnson Network Engineer The University of Iowa Phone: 319 384-0938 Fax: 319 335-2951 Mobile: 319 540-2081 E-Mail: neil-john...@uiowa.edu On 12/16/11 3:31 PM, Jason Healy jhe...@logn.net wrote: On Dec 16, 2011, at 4:18 PM, Luke Jenkins wrote: I forgot to add background reading for anyone else crazy enough to try to get this working: We're crazy enough to do all our printer advertisements this way (we're an all-Apple campus). We publish a wide-area DNS-SD subdomain and advertise all our printers there. We then block all multicast advertisements from end users to prevent people from sharing their devices directly. When Mac users open their printer selection box, all of our official printers auto-populate into the list. Haven't tried anything with AppleTVs (don't have any official ones yet), but if the process is the same then it shouldn't be too hard to do. We've scripted the creation of the DNS-SD domain from a central set of config data, and it just barfs out the needed BIND files. Happy to provide sample records if anyone is interested. Jason -- Jason Healy|jhe...@logn.net| http://www.logn.net/ ** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/. ** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/.
