RE: Ruckus?

[Osborne, Bruce W (Network Operations)]

Aruba has virtual controllers supporting 50 to 1000 APs. They have been 
available for about a year, IIRC. They also have their Instant AP line with 
built-in controllers for smaller installations.

http://www.arubanetworks.com/assets/ds/DS_VMC.pdf


Bruce Osborne
Senior Network Engineer
Network Operations - Wireless
 (434) 592-4229
LIBERTY UNIVERSITY
Training Champions for Christ since 1971

From: Barros, Jacob [mailto:jkbar...@grace.edu]
Sent: Thursday, March 1, 2018 9:33 AM
Subject: Re: Ruckus?

We are relatively new Ruckus customers, currently split with Meru/Fortinet.  
When Fortinet started releasing firmware for the Meru APs, we started seeing 
major connectivity issues.  We are doing one building at a time and don't 
appear to be having any major conflicts.  Currently around 120 Ruckus APs are 
deployed on a single virtual controller.   If our budget comes through we'll 
get all of the Fortinet ap's out by summer 19.

I demo'd Cloudpath and it didn't work the way we expected cross-platform.  
Ruckus pricing was comparable Meraki (up front, not considering the 5 year 
model), and slightly less than Aerohive.  We didn't really consider Aruba or 
Cisco.  I am still in disbelief that  Aruba doesn't have a virtual controller 
option.  We didn't consider Cisco as, maybe it's my imagination, but I feel 
like every week there's a post on this list about issues with LWAPP or some bug 
in code versions.

Jake







Jacob Barros

Associate Director of IT, Network and Operations

Email: jkbar...@grace.edu<mailto:jkbar...@grace.edu>

Phone: 574.372.5100 ext. 6178

[https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/UL13vM331_cldE--6pe0tmF8xi10XejwQWh_iIo3_WnKqa3GNTj7qfC8zMm-AathAnMQoUG1LNv5GzD35OyxQ_x_V2RG30D4r5ucKFdYJkE1-Z-d98UW1NPWapbWxgOAi68e0c7q]



On Thu, Feb 22, 2018 at 8:54 AM, Harry Rauch 
<rauc...@eckerd.edu<mailto:rauc...@eckerd.edu>> wrote:
That's a good observation. We have had little need for support but when we did 
Ruckus was very persistent in solving the issue. Some may say they bugged us a 
lot to make sure everything was in order.
They have a cloud based solution that we have just started to look at. Having 
just one campus makes it a difficult solution to go to. The philosophy of "if 
it works fine don't fix it"  usually works best unless their is a major upgrade 
or EOL for APs. Even so, we move the older APs to low volume areas and have the 
one controller for the older stuff that can't be upgraded. We try and push ROI 
to the max since we are a private college.

On Thu, Feb 22, 2018 at 7:48 AM, Osborne, Bruce W (Network Operations) 
<bosbo...@liberty.edu<mailto:bosbo...@liberty.edu>> wrote:
One major point to consider is vendor support. We are not a Ruckus Wireless 
customer but we just moved away from one of their prodicts to a different third 
party product.

We just moved away from Cloudpath (we tried Wizard & ES) due to poor support 
experiences and lack of timely updates for new OS challenges.

For us support is almost as large a challenge as product performance. I 
personally would settle for a little less than ideal performance if there is a 
good support structure backing it up.

Bruce Osborne
Senior Network Engineer
Network Operations - Wireless
 (434) 592-4229<tel:(434)%20592-4229>
LIBERTY UNIVERSITY
Training Champions for Christ since 1971

From: Wesley Troy Scott [mailto:tsc...@uwyo.edu<mailto:tsc...@uwyo.edu>]
Sent: Wednesday, February 21, 2018 5:01 PM
Subject: Ruckus?


Hello,



I'm curious about how you are using Ruckus Wireless products on campus. 
Specifically:



  1.  What's the size of your deployment (waps, controllers, users, etc)
  2.  Are you completely Ruckus or do you have a mix of WLAN vendors
  3.  Did you transition to Ruckus from another vendor or was it a greenfield 
deployment
  4.  How does the cost compare to other vendors
  5.  Any concerns about specific use cases
  6.  Anything folks should know when talking about Ruckus


Thanks to anyone that can throw some light on Ruckus and is willing to share 
their experience with me. I'll take responses off list too if that's better for 
you.



Sincerely,



Troy Scott

tsc...@uwyo.edu<mailto:tsc...@uwyo.edu>


** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE 
Constituent Group discussion list can be found at 
http://www.educause.edu/discuss.
** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE 
Constituent Group discussion list can be found at 
http://www.educause.edu/discuss.


--
Harry Rauch
Network Analyst
Eckerd College
4200 - 54th Ave 
So<https://maps.google.com/?q=4200+-+54th+Ave+So+St.+Petersburg,+FL+33711=gmail=g>
St. Petersburg, FL 
33711<https://maps.google.com/?q=4200+-+54th+Ave+So+St.+Petersburg,+FL+33711=gmail=g>
727-864-8318<tel:(727)%20864-8318>
** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE 
Constituent Group discussion list can be found at 
http://

Re: [SPF:Probably_Forged] Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Ruckus?

[Sweetser, Frank E]

It's probably new since the last time you looked, but Aruba definitely has all 
virtual controller options now:


http://www.arubanetworks.com/assets/ds/DS_MobilityMaster.pdf


http://www.arubanetworks.com/assets/ds/DS_VMC.pdf


Frank Sweetser
Director of Network Operations
Worcester Polytechnic Institute
"For every problem, there is a solution that is simple, elegant, and wrong." - 
HL Mencken



From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv 
<WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU> on behalf of Barros, Jacob 
<jkbar...@grace.edu>
Sent: Thursday, March 1, 2018 9:32 AM
To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU
Subject: [SPF:Probably_Forged] Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Ruckus?

We are relatively new Ruckus customers, currently split with Meru/Fortinet.  
When Fortinet started releasing firmware for the Meru APs, we started seeing 
major connectivity issues.  We are doing one building at a time and don't 
appear to be having any major conflicts.  Currently around 120 Ruckus APs are 
deployed on a single virtual controller.   If our budget comes through we'll 
get all of the Fortinet ap's out by summer 19.

I demo'd Cloudpath and it didn't work the way we expected cross-platform.  
Ruckus pricing was comparable Meraki (up front, not considering the 5 year 
model), and slightly less than Aerohive.  We didn't really consider Aruba or 
Cisco.  I am still in disbelief that  Aruba doesn't have a virtual controller 
option.  We didn't consider Cisco as, maybe it's my imagination, but I feel 
like every week there's a post on this list about issues with LWAPP or some bug 
in code versions.

Jake






Jacob Barros

Associate Director of IT, Network and Operations

Email: jkbar...@grace.edu<mailto:jkbar...@grace.edu>

Phone: 574.372.5100 ext. 6178

[https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/UL13vM331_cldE--6pe0tmF8xi10XejwQWh_iIo3_WnKqa3GNTj7qfC8zMm-AathAnMQoUG1LNv5GzD35OyxQ_x_V2RG30D4r5ucKFdYJkE1-Z-d98UW1NPWapbWxgOAi68e0c7q]




On Thu, Feb 22, 2018 at 8:54 AM, Harry Rauch 
<rauc...@eckerd.edu<mailto:rauc...@eckerd.edu>> wrote:
That's a good observation. We have had little need for support but when we did 
Ruckus was very persistent in solving the issue. Some may say they bugged us a 
lot to make sure everything was in order.

They have a cloud based solution that we have just started to look at. Having 
just one campus makes it a difficult solution to go to. The philosophy of "if 
it works fine don't fix it"  usually works best unless their is a major upgrade 
or EOL for APs. Even so, we move the older APs to low volume areas and have the 
one controller for the older stuff that can't be upgraded. We try and push ROI 
to the max since we are a private college.

On Thu, Feb 22, 2018 at 7:48 AM, Osborne, Bruce W (Network Operations) 
<bosbo...@liberty.edu<mailto:bosbo...@liberty.edu>> wrote:

One major point to consider is vendor support. We are not a Ruckus Wireless 
customer but we just moved away from one of their prodicts to a different third 
party product.



We just moved away from Cloudpath (we tried Wizard & ES) due to poor support 
experiences and lack of timely updates for new OS challenges.



For us support is almost as large a challenge as product performance. I 
personally would settle for a little less than ideal performance if there is a 
good support structure backing it up.



Bruce Osborne

Senior Network Engineer

Network Operations - Wireless

 (434) 592-4229<tel:(434)%20592-4229>

LIBERTY UNIVERSITY

Training Champions for Christ since 1971



From: Wesley Troy Scott [mailto:tsc...@uwyo.edu<mailto:tsc...@uwyo.edu>]
Sent: Wednesday, February 21, 2018 5:01 PM
Subject: Ruckus?



Hello,



I'm curious about how you are using Ruckus Wireless products on campus. 
Specifically:



  1.  What's the size of your deployment (waps, controllers, users, etc)
  2.  Are you completely Ruckus or do you have a mix of WLAN vendors
  3.  Did you transition to Ruckus from another vendor or was it a greenfield 
deployment
  4.  How does the cost compare to other vendors
  5.  Any concerns about specific use cases
  6.  Anything folks should know when talking about Ruckus



Thanks to anyone that can throw some light on Ruckus and is willing to share 
their experience with me. I'll take responses off list too if that's better for 
you.



Sincerely,



Troy Scott

tsc...@uwyo.edu<mailto:tsc...@uwyo.edu>



** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE 
Constituent Group discussion list can be found at 
http://www.educause.edu/discuss.

** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE 
Constituent Group discussion list can be found at 
http://www.educause.edu/discuss.



--
Harry Rauch
Network Analyst
Eckerd College
4200 - 54th Ave 
So<https://maps.google.com/?q=4200+-+54th+Ave+So+St.+Petersburg,+FL+33711=gmail=g>
St. Petersburg, FL 
33711<https://

Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Ruckus?

[Barros, Jacob]

We are relatively new Ruckus customers, currently split with
Meru/Fortinet.  When Fortinet started releasing firmware for the Meru APs,
we started seeing major connectivity issues.  We are doing one building at
a time and don't appear to be having any major conflicts.  Currently around
120 Ruckus APs are deployed on a single virtual controller.   If our budget
comes through we'll get all of the Fortinet ap's out by summer 19.

I demo'd Cloudpath and it didn't work the way we expected cross-platform.
Ruckus pricing was comparable Meraki (up front, not considering the 5 year
model), and slightly less than Aerohive.  We didn't really consider Aruba
or Cisco.  I am still in disbelief that  Aruba doesn't have a virtual
controller option.  We didn't consider Cisco as, maybe it's my imagination,
but I feel like every week there's a post on this list about issues with
LWAPP or some bug in code versions.

Jake





Jacob Barros

Associate Director of IT, Network and Operations

Email: jkbar...@grace.edu

Phone: 574.372.5100 ext. 6178






On Thu, Feb 22, 2018 at 8:54 AM, Harry Rauch <rauc...@eckerd.edu> wrote:

> That's a good observation. We have had little need for support but when we
> did Ruckus was very persistent in solving the issue. Some may say they
> bugged us a lot to make sure everything was in order.
>
> They have a cloud based solution that we have just started to look at.
> Having just one campus makes it a difficult solution to go to. The
> philosophy of "if it works fine don't fix it"  usually works best unless
> their is a major upgrade or EOL for APs. Even so, we move the older APs to
> low volume areas and have the one controller for the older stuff that can't
> be upgraded. We try and push ROI to the max since we are a private college.
>
> On Thu, Feb 22, 2018 at 7:48 AM, Osborne, Bruce W (Network Operations) <
> bosbo...@liberty.edu> wrote:
>
>> One major point to consider is vendor support. We are not a Ruckus
>> Wireless customer but we just moved away from one of their prodicts to a
>> different third party product.
>>
>>
>>
>> We just moved away from Cloudpath (we tried Wizard & ES) due to poor
>> support experiences and lack of timely updates for new OS challenges.
>>
>>
>>
>> For us support is almost as large a challenge as product performance. I
>> personally would settle for a little less than ideal performance if there
>> is a good support structure backing it up.
>>
>>
>>
>> *Bruce Osborne*
>>
>> *Senior Network Engineer*
>>
>> *Network Operations - Wireless*
>>
>>  *(434) 592-4229 <(434)%20592-4229>*
>>
>> *LIBERTY UNIVERSITY*
>>
>> *Training Champions for Christ since 1971*
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* Wesley Troy Scott [mailto:tsc...@uwyo.edu]
>> *Sent:* Wednesday, February 21, 2018 5:01 PM
>> *Subject:* Ruckus?
>>
>>
>>
>> Hello,
>>
>>
>>
>> I'm curious about how you are using Ruckus Wireless products on campus.
>> Specifically:
>>
>>
>>
>>1. What's the size of your deployment (waps, controllers, users, etc)
>>2. Are you completely Ruckus or do you have a mix of WLAN vendors
>>3. Did you transition to Ruckus from another vendor or was it a
>>greenfield deployment
>>4. How does the cost compare to other vendors
>>5. Any concerns about specific use cases
>>6. Anything folks should know when talking about Ruckus
>>
>>
>>
>> Thanks to anyone that can throw some light on Ruckus and is willing to
>> share their experience with me. I'll take responses off list too if that's
>> better for you.
>>
>>
>>
>> Sincerely,
>>
>>
>>
>> Troy Scott
>>
>> tsc...@uwyo.edu
>>
>>
>>
>> ** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE
>> Constituent Group discussion list can be found at
>> http://www.educause.edu/discuss.
>> ** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE
>> Constituent Group discussion list can be found at
>> http://www.educause.edu/discuss.
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> Harry Rauch
> Network Analyst
> Eckerd College
> 4200 - 54th Ave So
> <https://maps.google.com/?q=4200+-+54th+Ave+So+St.+Petersburg,+FL+33711=gmail=g>
> St. Petersburg, FL 33711
> <https://maps.google.com/?q=4200+-+54th+Ave+So+St.+Petersburg,+FL+33711=gmail=g>
> 727-864-8318 <(727)%20864-8318>
> ** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE
> Constituent Group discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/
> discuss.
>
>

**
Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group 
discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/discuss.

Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Ruckus?

[Harry Rauch]

That's a good observation. We have had little need for support but when we
did Ruckus was very persistent in solving the issue. Some may say they
bugged us a lot to make sure everything was in order.

They have a cloud based solution that we have just started to look at.
Having just one campus makes it a difficult solution to go to. The
philosophy of "if it works fine don't fix it"  usually works best unless
their is a major upgrade or EOL for APs. Even so, we move the older APs to
low volume areas and have the one controller for the older stuff that can't
be upgraded. We try and push ROI to the max since we are a private college.

On Thu, Feb 22, 2018 at 7:48 AM, Osborne, Bruce W (Network Operations) <
bosbo...@liberty.edu> wrote:

> One major point to consider is vendor support. We are not a Ruckus
> Wireless customer but we just moved away from one of their prodicts to a
> different third party product.
>
>
>
> We just moved away from Cloudpath (we tried Wizard & ES) due to poor
> support experiences and lack of timely updates for new OS challenges.
>
>
>
> For us support is almost as large a challenge as product performance. I
> personally would settle for a little less than ideal performance if there
> is a good support structure backing it up.
>
>
>
> *Bruce Osborne*
>
> *Senior Network Engineer*
>
> *Network Operations - Wireless*
>
>  *(434) 592-4229 <(434)%20592-4229>*
>
> *LIBERTY UNIVERSITY*
>
> *Training Champions for Christ since 1971*
>
>
>
> *From:* Wesley Troy Scott [mailto:tsc...@uwyo.edu]
> *Sent:* Wednesday, February 21, 2018 5:01 PM
> *Subject:* Ruckus?
>
>
>
> Hello,
>
>
>
> I'm curious about how you are using Ruckus Wireless products on campus.
> Specifically:
>
>
>
>1. What's the size of your deployment (waps, controllers, users, etc)
>2. Are you completely Ruckus or do you have a mix of WLAN vendors
>3. Did you transition to Ruckus from another vendor or was it a
>    greenfield deployment
>4. How does the cost compare to other vendors
>5. Any concerns about specific use cases
>6. Anything folks should know when talking about Ruckus
>
>
>
> Thanks to anyone that can throw some light on Ruckus and is willing to
> share their experience with me. I'll take responses off list too if that's
> better for you.
>
>
>
> Sincerely,
>
>
>
> Troy Scott
>
> tsc...@uwyo.edu
>
>
>
> ** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE
> Constituent Group discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/
> discuss.
> ** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE
> Constituent Group discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/
> discuss.
>
>


-- 
Harry Rauch
Network Analyst
Eckerd College
4200 - 54th Ave So
St. Petersburg, FL 33711
727-864-8318

**
Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group 
discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/discuss.

RE: Ruckus?

[Osborne, Bruce W (Network Operations)]

One major point to consider is vendor support. We are not a Ruckus Wireless 
customer but we just moved away from one of their prodicts to a different third 
party product.

We just moved away from Cloudpath (we tried Wizard & ES) due to poor support 
experiences and lack of timely updates for new OS challenges.

For us support is almost as large a challenge as product performance. I 
personally would settle for a little less than ideal performance if there is a 
good support structure backing it up.

Bruce Osborne
Senior Network Engineer
Network Operations - Wireless
 (434) 592-4229
LIBERTY UNIVERSITY
Training Champions for Christ since 1971

From: Wesley Troy Scott [mailto:tsc...@uwyo.edu]
Sent: Wednesday, February 21, 2018 5:01 PM
Subject: Ruckus?


Hello,



I'm curious about how you are using Ruckus Wireless products on campus. 
Specifically:



  1.  What's the size of your deployment (waps, controllers, users, etc)
  2.  Are you completely Ruckus or do you have a mix of WLAN vendors
  3.  Did you transition to Ruckus from another vendor or was it a greenfield 
deployment
  4.  How does the cost compare to other vendors
  5.  Any concerns about specific use cases
  6.  Anything folks should know when talking about Ruckus


Thanks to anyone that can throw some light on Ruckus and is willing to share 
their experience with me. I'll take responses off list too if that's better for 
you.



Sincerely,



Troy Scott

tsc...@uwyo.edu<mailto:tsc...@uwyo.edu>


** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE 
Constituent Group discussion list can be found at 
http://www.educause.edu/discuss.

**
Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group 
discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/discuss.

Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Ruckus?

[Harry Rauch]

Forgot to say this is Eckerd College, We have had over 400 APs and 4200
connections at one time

On Wed, Feb 21, 2018 at 6:14 PM, Harry Rauch <rauc...@eckerd.edu> wrote:

> We have been using Ruckus for at least 7 years. We mainly use 1 controller
> with a backup and a 2nd controller for newer devices as a test platform.
>
> We have gone from Extreme to Cisco to Ruckus and now entirely ruckus. We
> have purchased from several suppliers and found the cost to be about 10%
> less than others.
>
> We have used wifi bridging on numerous occasions; the reliability and
> durability never ceases to amaze. A case in point: we bridged from a main
> building to our Athletics gym and offices - approx. 2000 yards. We had a
> series of rough weather but saw no issue with the network connection or
> throughput. However, when we went to the gym area the antenna - on a
> portable tripod and weighted down - had blown over the edge of the building
> and the antenna was facing a wall 180 degrees from the original target. The
> reception had not changed and the AP was working like it should.
>
> Ruckus has a good automatic meshing of APs without major programming. The
> only issue I had was that our dorm complexes were close enough that an
> issue of slow internet which was not showing up on Solarwinds was because
> of the automatic meshing. Two APs close enough to mesh with each other
> allowed the switches to offer reasonable bandwidth via the meshed section.
>
> I have tested numerous APs over the years and cannot find APs from another
> company to match them. The more signal reflection the better the APs
> perform.
>
> On Wed, Feb 21, 2018 at 5:01 PM, Wesley Troy Scott <tsc...@uwyo.edu>
> wrote:
>
>> Hello,
>>
>>
>> I'm curious about how you are using Ruckus Wireless products on campus.
>> Specifically:
>>
>>
>>
>>1. What's the size of your deployment (waps, controllers, users, etc)
>>2. Are you completely Ruckus or do you have a mix of WLAN vendors
>>3. Did you transition to Ruckus from another vendor or was it a
>>greenfield deployment
>>4. How does the cost compare to other vendors
>>5. Any concerns about specific use cases
>>6. Anything folks should know when talking about Ruckus
>>
>>
>> Thanks to anyone that can throw some light on Ruckus and is willing to
>> share their experience with me. I'll take responses off list too if that's
>> better for you.
>>
>>
>> Sincerely,
>>
>>
>> Troy Scott
>>
>> tsc...@uwyo.edu
>>
>>
>> ** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE
>> Constituent Group discussion list can be found at
>> http://www.educause.edu/discuss.
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> Harry Rauch
> Network Analyst
> Eckerd College
> 4200 - 54th Ave So
> St. Petersburg, FL 33711
> 727-864-8318 <(727)%20864-8318>
>



-- 
Harry Rauch
Network Analyst
Eckerd College
4200 - 54th Ave So
St. Petersburg, FL 33711
727-864-8318

**
Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group 
discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/discuss.

Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Ruckus?

['Dan Loop']

Troy

We use Ruckus Wireless only on our campus and our seven remote campuses as
well. We have 135 Access Points running on 2 controllers, one controller
for main campus and one controller for our remote sites.
We have between 200 and 300 users per day.
We use to have Cisco but replaced them in 2008 with Ruckus after a test we
ran ourselves in our library.
As we only use Ruckus we have not shopped for other brands but when we
changed they were less expensive.
We also use Cloudpath as our Onboarding system this is also a Ruckus
product.

We are happy with the Ruckus system and with support from them when we need
it.

If you need any more information feel free to contact me.

On Wed, Feb 21, 2018 at 2:01 PM, Wesley Troy Scott <tsc...@uwyo.edu> wrote:

> Hello,
>
>
> I'm curious about how you are using Ruckus Wireless products on campus.
> Specifically:
>
>
>
>1. What's the size of your deployment (waps, controllers, users, etc)
>2. Are you completely Ruckus or do you have a mix of WLAN vendors
>3. Did you transition to Ruckus from another vendor or was it a
>greenfield deployment
>4. How does the cost compare to other vendors
>5. Any concerns about specific use cases
>    6. Anything folks should know when talking about Ruckus
>
>
> Thanks to anyone that can throw some light on Ruckus and is willing to
> share their experience with me. I'll take responses off list too if that's
> better for you.
>
>
> Sincerely,
>
>
> Troy Scott
>
> tsc...@uwyo.edu
>
>
> ** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE
> Constituent Group discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/
> discuss.
>
>


-- 
Dan Loop BCNE, ACE7
Chemeketa Community College
Information Technology Dept.
4000 Lancaster Dr NE
Salem, Or 97305
503.399.5042
dan.l...@chemeketa.edu

**
Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group 
discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/discuss.

Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Ruckus?

[Harry Rauch]

We have been using Ruckus for at least 7 years. We mainly use 1 controller
with a backup and a 2nd controller for newer devices as a test platform.

We have gone from Extreme to Cisco to Ruckus and now entirely ruckus. We
have purchased from several suppliers and found the cost to be about 10%
less than others.

We have used wifi bridging on numerous occasions; the reliability and
durability never ceases to amaze. A case in point: we bridged from a main
building to our Athletics gym and offices - approx. 2000 yards. We had a
series of rough weather but saw no issue with the network connection or
throughput. However, when we went to the gym area the antenna - on a
portable tripod and weighted down - had blown over the edge of the building
and the antenna was facing a wall 180 degrees from the original target. The
reception had not changed and the AP was working like it should.

Ruckus has a good automatic meshing of APs without major programming. The
only issue I had was that our dorm complexes were close enough that an
issue of slow internet which was not showing up on Solarwinds was because
of the automatic meshing. Two APs close enough to mesh with each other
allowed the switches to offer reasonable bandwidth via the meshed section.

I have tested numerous APs over the years and cannot find APs from another
company to match them. The more signal reflection the better the APs
perform.

On Wed, Feb 21, 2018 at 5:01 PM, Wesley Troy Scott <tsc...@uwyo.edu> wrote:

> Hello,
>
>
> I'm curious about how you are using Ruckus Wireless products on campus.
> Specifically:
>
>
>
>1. What's the size of your deployment (waps, controllers, users, etc)
>2. Are you completely Ruckus or do you have a mix of WLAN vendors
>3. Did you transition to Ruckus from another vendor or was it a
>greenfield deployment
>4. How does the cost compare to other vendors
>5. Any concerns about specific use cases
>    6. Anything folks should know when talking about Ruckus
>
>
> Thanks to anyone that can throw some light on Ruckus and is willing to
> share their experience with me. I'll take responses off list too if that's
> better for you.
>
>
> Sincerely,
>
>
> Troy Scott
>
> tsc...@uwyo.edu
>
>
> ** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE
> Constituent Group discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/
> discuss.
>
>


-- 
Harry Rauch
Network Analyst
Eckerd College
4200 - 54th Ave So
St. Petersburg, FL 33711
727-864-8318

**
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discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/discuss.

Ruckus?

[Wesley Troy Scott]

Hello,


I'm curious about how you are using Ruckus Wireless products on campus. 
Specifically:


  1.  What's the size of your deployment (waps, controllers, users, etc)
  2.  Are you completely Ruckus or do you have a mix of WLAN vendors
  3.  Did you transition to Ruckus from another vendor or was it a greenfield 
deployment
  4.  How does the cost compare to other vendors
  5.  Any concerns about specific use cases
  6.  Anything folks should know when talking about Ruckus


Thanks to anyone that can throw some light on Ruckus and is willing to share 
their experience with me. I'll take responses off list too if that's better for 
you.


Sincerely,


Troy Scott

tsc...@uwyo.edu


**
Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group 
discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/discuss.

Ruckus Users

[Thomas Carter]

We are evaluating new wireless vendors and I'm looking for current Ruckus 
clients who would be willing to send me their experiences and opinions 
off-list. I realize every vendor has occasional issues, but I'm more looking at 
show-stopping bugs, issues with support, day-to-day reliability, etc.

Thomas Carter
Network & Operations Manager / IT
Austin College
900 North Grand Avenue
Sherman, TX 75090
Phone: 903-813-2564
www.austincollege.edu<http://www.austincollege.edu/>


**
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Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Ruckus has purchased Cloudpath

[Ken LeCompte]

Philippe,

I am confused by your statement about Apple dropping support for EAP-TTLS. Do 
you have something official stating this? IOS9 clearly supports EAP-TTLS-PAP 
and my understanding is that MacOS 10.11 is essentially the same as iOS9 is 
terms of 802.1x.

Thank you.

Ken

-- 
Ken LeCompte - Consulting Telecommunications Analyst
Telecommunications Division
Office of Information Technology
Rutgers, The State University of New Jersey
Office ~ (848) 445-4823

On Oct 22, 2015, at 11:40 AM, Philippe Hanset <phan...@anyroam.net> wrote:

> Just to clarify, CAT (cat.eduroam.org) is mostly designed for PEAP and 
> EAP-TTLS. 
> You could use it for EAP-TLS but it doesn’t tie to a PKI (that part of the 
> code is missing)
> 
> Support for EAP-TTLS for Windows XP-VISTA-7 was interrupted this year after 
> SecureW2 asked CAT to stop using its code.
> 
> But new version of MacOS do not support EAP-TTLS, so it seems that EAP-TTLS 
> might really disappear anyway!
> (if you want to support PEAP in a non Microsoft environment, you can read 
> this: https://www.eduroam.us/node/97)
> 
> Philippe
> 
> Philippe Hanset
> www.eduroam.us
> 
> 
>> On Oct 22, 2015, at 11:14 AM, Philippe Hanset <phan...@anyroam.net> wrote:
>> 
>> Or if you only care about 802.1X automatic configuration (and not about all 
>> the features of device management that come with Cloudpath and others)
>> you can use the free configuration tool from cat.eduroam.org (definitely not 
>> as good as Cloudpath, but good enough for many of us ..and it does support 
>> your local SSID in addition to eduroam)
>> 
>> Philippe
>> 
>> Philippe Hanset
>> www.eduroam.us
>> 
>>> On Oct 22, 2015, at 11:02 AM, Coehoorn, Joel <jcoeho...@york.edu> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Best case scenario: Ruckus' awesome Dynamic PSK feature gets rolled into 
>>> Cloudpath for the rest of us and the pricing comes down in an effort to use 
>>> CloudPath to eventually sway customers towards Ruckus hardware. Worst case: 
>>> Cloudpath effectively goes Ruckus-only, leaving us to move to either 
>>> Secure-W2, Cisco ISE, or Aruba ClearPass.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Joel Coehoorn
>>> Director of Information Technology
>>> 402.363.5603
>>> jcoeho...@york.edu
>>> 
>>> 
>>> The mission of York College is to transform lives through Christ-centered 
>>> education and to equip students for lifelong service to God, family, and 
>>> society
>>> 
>>> On Thu, Oct 22, 2015 at 9:58 AM, Frank Sweetser <f...@wpi.edu> wrote:
>>> Well that's... interesting.
>>> 
>>> Anyone heard any rumors about what their roadmap might be?  These 
>>> acquisitions of an independent service by a larger portfolio company rarely 
>>> seem to well for customers of the independent service if you're not also a 
>>> customer of the large one.
>>> 
>>> Frank Sweetser fs at wpi.edu|  For every problem, there is a solution 
>>> that
>>> Manager of Network Operations   |  is simple, elegant, and wrong.
>>> Worcester Polytechnic Institute |   - HL Mencken
>>> 
>>> On 10/22/2015 10:43 AM, Lee H Badman wrote:
>>> FYI.
>>> *Lee Badman*| Network Architect
>>> Information Technology Services
>>> 206 Machinery Hall
>>> 120 Smith Drive
>>> Syracuse, New York 13244
>>> *t* 315.443.3003 *f* 315.443.4325 *e* _lhbadman@syr.edu_
>>> <mailto:lhbad...@syr.edu> *w* its.syr.edu
>>> *SYRACUSE UNIVERSITY
>>> *syr.edu
>>> ** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE
>>> Constituent Group discussion list can be found at
>>> http://www.educause.edu/groups/.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> **
>>> Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent 
>>> Group discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/.
>>> 
>>> ** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE 
>>> Constituent Group discussion list can be found at 
>>> http://www.educause.edu/groups/.
>>> 
>> 
>> ** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE 
>> Constituent Group discussion list can be found at 
>> http://www.educause.edu/groups/.
>> 
> 
> ** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE 
> Constituent Group discussion list can be found at 
> http://www.educause.edu/groups/.
> 



**
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discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/.

RE: [WIRELESS-LAN] Ruckus has purchased Cloudpath

[Turner, Ryan H]

If that is the case, there are going to be a lot of unhappy people!!

Ryan H Turner
Senior Network Engineer
The University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill
CB 1150 Chapel Hill, NC 27599
+1 919 445 0113 Office
+1 919 274 7926 Mobile

From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv 
[mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Ken LeCompte
Sent: Tuesday, October 27, 2015 2:57 PM
To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU
Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Ruckus has purchased Cloudpath

Philippe,

I am confused by your statement about Apple dropping support for EAP-TTLS. Do 
you have something official stating this? IOS9 clearly supports EAP-TTLS-PAP 
and my understanding is that MacOS 10.11 is essentially the same as iOS9 is 
terms of 802.1x.

Thank you.

Ken

--
Ken LeCompte - Consulting Telecommunications Analyst
Telecommunications Division
Office of Information Technology
Rutgers, The State University of New Jersey
Office ~ (848) 445-4823

On Oct 22, 2015, at 11:40 AM, Philippe Hanset 
<phan...@anyroam.net<mailto:phan...@anyroam.net>> wrote:


Just to clarify, CAT (cat.eduroam.org<http://cat.eduroam.org/>) is mostly 
designed for PEAP and EAP-TTLS.
You could use it for EAP-TLS but it doesn't tie to a PKI (that part of the code 
is missing)

Support for EAP-TTLS for Windows XP-VISTA-7 was interrupted this year after 
SecureW2 asked CAT to stop using its code.

But new version of MacOS do not support EAP-TTLS, so it seems that EAP-TTLS 
might really disappear anyway!
(if you want to support PEAP in a non Microsoft environment, you can read this: 
https://www.eduroam.us/node/97)

Philippe

Philippe Hanset
www.eduroam.us<http://www.eduroam.us/>


On Oct 22, 2015, at 11:14 AM, Philippe Hanset 
<phan...@anyroam.net<mailto:phan...@anyroam.net>> wrote:

Or if you only care about 802.1X automatic configuration (and not about all the 
features of device management that come with Cloudpath and others)
you can use the free configuration tool from 
cat.eduroam.org<http://cat.eduroam.org/> (definitely not as good as Cloudpath, 
but good enough for many of us ..and it does support your local SSID in 
addition to eduroam)

Philippe

Philippe Hanset
www.eduroam.us<http://www.eduroam.us/>

On Oct 22, 2015, at 11:02 AM, Coehoorn, Joel 
<jcoeho...@york.edu<mailto:jcoeho...@york.edu>> wrote:

Best case scenario: Ruckus' awesome Dynamic PSK feature gets rolled into 
Cloudpath for the rest of us and the pricing comes down in an effort to use 
CloudPath to eventually sway customers towards Ruckus hardware. Worst case: 
Cloudpath effectively goes Ruckus-only, leaving us to move to either Secure-W2, 
Cisco ISE, or Aruba ClearPass.


[Image removed by sender.]

Joel Coehoorn
Director of Information Technology
402.363.5603
jcoeho...@york.edu<mailto:jcoeho...@york.edu>




The mission of York College is to transform lives through Christ-centered 
education and to equip students for lifelong service to God, family, and society

On Thu, Oct 22, 2015 at 9:58 AM, Frank Sweetser 
<f...@wpi.edu<mailto:f...@wpi.edu>> wrote:
Well that's... interesting.

Anyone heard any rumors about what their roadmap might be?  These acquisitions 
of an independent service by a larger portfolio company rarely seem to well for 
customers of the independent service if you're not also a customer of the large 
one.

Frank Sweetser fs at wpi.edu<http://wpi.edu/>|  For every problem, there is 
a solution that
Manager of Network Operations   |  is simple, elegant, and wrong.
Worcester Polytechnic Institute |   - HL Mencken

On 10/22/2015 10:43 AM, Lee H Badman wrote:
FYI.
*Lee Badman*| Network Architect
Information Technology Services
206 Machinery Hall
120 Smith Drive
Syracuse, New York 13244
*t* 315.443.3003 *f* 315.443.4325 *e* 
_lhbad...@syr.edu<mailto:lhbad...@syr.edu>_
<mailto:lhbad...@syr.edu<mailto:lhbad...@syr.edu>> *w* 
its.syr.edu<http://its.syr.edu/>
*SYRACUSE UNIVERSITY
*syr.edu<http://syr.edu/>
** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE
Constituent Group discussion list can be found at
http://www.educause.edu/groups/.

**
Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group 
discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/.

** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE 
Constituent Group discussion list can be found at 
http://www.educause.edu/groups/.


** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE 
Constituent Group discussion list can be found at 
http://www.educause.edu/groups/.


** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE 
Constituent Group discussion list can be found at 
http://www.educause.edu/groups/.



** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE 
Constituent Group discussion list can be found at 
http://ww

Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Ruckus has purchased Cloudpath

[Steven D. Veron]

Sure, just email me directly or give me a call. 



Steven D Veron 
Senior Network Analyst 
Lamar University 
Office- 409-880-2386 
Cell- 409-351-5961 
steven.ve...@lamar.edu 




- Original Message -

From: "Dan Loop" <dan.l...@chemeketa.edu> 
To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU 
Sent: Thursday, October 22, 2015 2:10:18 PM 
Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Ruckus has purchased Cloudpath 


Steve 


I work at Chemeketa Community College in Salem, Or and we are a Ruckus Wireless 
shop as well and looking at Cloudpath. We would like a little insite into the 
do's and dont's of the setup. 


Thanks 


On Thu, Oct 22, 2015 at 11:47 AM, Steven D. Veron < sve...@lamar.edu > wrote: 




We just finished a Ruckus/Cloupath deployment a few months ago, and this move 
makes sense. Interesting considering I had heard Kevin turned down Cisco and 
Juniper. 


If anyone has questions about how it went you can email me directly, 



Steven D Veron 
Senior Network Analyst 
Lamar University 
Office- 409-880-2386 
Cell- 409-351-5961 
steven.ve...@lamar.edu 






From: "Benjamin John Higgins" < bjhigg...@wpi.edu > 
To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU 
Sent: Thursday, October 22, 2015 10:54:59 AM 
Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Ruckus has purchased Cloudpath 



Just for completeness sake – Ruckus posted the press release this morning: 
http://www.ruckuswireless.com/press/releases/20151021-ruckus-wireless-acquires-cloudpath-networks-simplify-wi-fi-onboarding
 

In speaking to our CloudPath rep, we heard “We will remain Cloudpath and our 
product will remain XpressConnect. I will confirm if we have a specific roadmap 
and get back to you information as soon as I get it.” This gives me hope that 
in the short term through the school year, the product will say with its 
current feature set. 

Beyond that … not sure yet. 

--ben 

-- 
Benjamin J. Higgins (’97), JNCIA-Junos | bjhigg...@wpi.edu 
Network Engineer | Office 508.831.4860 
Worcester Polytechnic Institute | Cell 508.713.1739 






From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv [mailto: 
WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU ] On Behalf Of Lee H Badman 
Sent: Thursday, October 22, 2015 10:44 AM 
To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU 
Subject: [WIRELESS-LAN] Ruckus has purchased Cloudpath 


FYI. 



Lee Badman | Network Architect 

Information Technology Services 
206 Machinery Hall 
120 Smith Drive 
Syracuse, New York 13244 

t 315.443.3003 f 315.443.4325 e lhbad...@syr.edu w its.syr.edu 

SYRACUSE UNIVERSITY 
syr.edu 






** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE 
Constituent Group discussion list can be found at 
http://www.educause.edu/groups/ . ** Participation and subscription 
information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group discussion list can be found at 
http://www.educause.edu/groups/ . 




CONFIDENTIALITY: Any information contained in this e-mail 
(including attachments) is the property of The State of Texas and 
unauthorized disclosure or use is prohibited. Sending, receiving or 
forwarding of confidential, proprietary and privileged information is 
prohibited under Lamar Policy. If you received this e-mail in error, 
please notify the sender and delete this e-mail from your system. ** 
Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group 
discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/ . 






-- 







Dan Loop BCNE 
Chemeketa Community College 
Information Technology Dept. 
4000 Lancaster Dr NE 
Salem, Or 97305 
503.399.5042 
dan.l...@chemeketa.edu 



** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE 
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Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Ruckus has purchased Cloudpath

[Steven D. Veron]

We just finished a Ruckus/Cloupath deployment a few months ago, and this move 
makes sense. Interesting considering I had heard Kevin turned down Cisco and 
Juniper. 


If anyone has questions about how it went you can email me directly, 



Steven D Veron 
Senior Network Analyst 
Lamar University 
Office- 409-880-2386 
Cell- 409-351-5961 
steven.ve...@lamar.edu 




- Original Message -

From: "Benjamin John Higgins" <bjhigg...@wpi.edu> 
To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU 
Sent: Thursday, October 22, 2015 10:54:59 AM 
Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Ruckus has purchased Cloudpath 



Just for completeness sake – Ruckus posted the press release this morning: 
http://www.ruckuswireless.com/press/releases/20151021-ruckus-wireless-acquires-cloudpath-networks-simplify-wi-fi-onboarding
 

In speaking to our CloudPath rep, we heard “We will remain Cloudpath and our 
product will remain XpressConnect. I will confirm if we have a specific roadmap 
and get back to you information as soon as I get it.” This gives me hope that 
in the short term through the school year, the product will say with its 
current feature set. 

Beyond that … not sure yet. 

--ben 

-- 
Benjamin J. Higgins (’97), JNCIA-Junos | bjhigg...@wpi.edu 
Network Engineer | Office 508.831.4860 
Worcester Polytechnic Institute | Cell 508.713.1739 






From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv 
[mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Lee H Badman 
Sent: Thursday, October 22, 2015 10:44 AM 
To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU 
Subject: [WIRELESS-LAN] Ruckus has purchased Cloudpath 


FYI. 



Lee Badman | Network Architect 

Information Technology Services 
206 Machinery Hall 
120 Smith Drive 
Syracuse, New York 13244 

t 315.443.3003 f 315.443.4325 e lhbad...@syr.edu w its.syr.edu 

SYRACUSE UNIVERSITY 
syr.edu 






** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE 
Constituent Group discussion list can be found at 
http://www.educause.edu/groups/ . ** Participation and subscription 
information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group discussion list can be found at 
http://www.educause.edu/groups/ . 





CONFIDENTIALITY: Any information contained in this e-mail 
(including attachments) is the property of The State of Texas and 
unauthorized disclosure or use is prohibited. Sending, receiving or 
forwarding of confidential, proprietary and privileged information is 
prohibited under Lamar Policy. If you received this e-mail in error, 
please notify the sender and delete this e-mail from your system.


**
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discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/.

Cloudpath-Ruckus...

[Philippe Hanset]

Here is a statement from Cloudpath about the direction of the company:

> 
> ---
> To be certain, Cloudpath will remain available as a multi-vendor product
> with a vision unchanged from what we have laid out over the last nine years.
> I continue to lead the Cloudpath team, the roadmap continues unchanged, and
> the entire Cloudpath team is excited to have at our disposal the increased
> reach and resources of Ruckus while staying true to our roots of delivering
> best-of-breed, standards-based security technologies.  Cloudpath will be at
> ACUTA and Educause next week.  I personally will be speaking at ACUTA on the
> 28th and will be at Educause on the 29th.  If attending either, please stop
> by the Cloudpath booth with any questions you have (or drop me an email).  
> 
> Kevin Koster
> Cloudpath Networks, now a Ruckus company
> 
> 

**
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discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/.

Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Ruckus has purchased Cloudpath

[Frank Sweetser]

Well that's... interesting.

Anyone heard any rumors about what their roadmap might be?  These acquisitions 
of an independent service by a larger portfolio company rarely seem to well 
for customers of the independent service if you're not also a customer of the 
large one.


Frank Sweetser fs at wpi.edu|  For every problem, there is a solution that
Manager of Network Operations   |  is simple, elegant, and wrong.
Worcester Polytechnic Institute |   - HL Mencken

On 10/22/2015 10:43 AM, Lee H Badman wrote:

FYI.
*Lee Badman*| Network Architect
Information Technology Services
206 Machinery Hall
120 Smith Drive
Syracuse, New York 13244
*t* 315.443.3003 *f* 315.443.4325 *e* _lhbadman@syr.edu_
 *w* its.syr.edu
*SYRACUSE UNIVERSITY
*syr.edu
** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE
Constituent Group discussion list can be found at
http://www.educause.edu/groups/.



**
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discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/.

Ruckus has purchased Cloudpath

[Lee H Badman]

FYI.


Lee Badman | Network Architect
Information Technology Services
206 Machinery Hall
120 Smith Drive
Syracuse, New York 13244

t 315.443.3003   f 315.443.4325   e lhbad...@syr.edu w 
its.syr.edu

SYRACUSE UNIVERSITY
syr.edu




**
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RE: Ruckus has purchased Cloudpath

[Jeffrey Sabin]

I am just trying to have a Ruckus rep contact us for a demo as we are 
considering all options for a wireless upgrade (currently we use Cisco). I 
wouldn't have thought it would be this hard and that they were interested in 
new business. Sorry for the rant here but it is frustrating.

Jeff
___
Jeff Sabin  |  Information Security Officer (ISO)
Head of, Infrastructure & Security Services
Drake Technology Services (DTS) | Drake University

T  515.271.2935
E  jeff.sa...@drake.edu<mailto:jeff.sa...@drake.edu>

From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv 
[mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Lee H Badman
Sent: Thursday, October 22, 2015 9:44 AM
To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU
Subject: [WIRELESS-LAN] Ruckus has purchased Cloudpath

FYI.

Lee Badman | Network Architect
Information Technology Services
206 Machinery Hall
120 Smith Drive
Syracuse, New York 13244
t 315.443.3003   f 315.443.4325   e lhbad...@syr.edu<mailto:lhbad...@syr.edu> w 
its.syr.edu
SYRACUSE UNIVERSITY
syr.edu



** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE 
Constituent Group discussion list can be found at 
http://www.educause.edu/groups/.

**
Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group 
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Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Ruckus has purchased Cloudpath

[Philippe Hanset]

Or if you only care about 802.1X automatic configuration (and not about all the 
features of device management that come with Cloudpath and others)
you can use the free configuration tool from cat.eduroam.org (definitely not as 
good as Cloudpath, but good enough for many of us ..and it does support your 
local SSID in addition to eduroam)

Philippe

Philippe Hanset
www.eduroam.us

> On Oct 22, 2015, at 11:02 AM, Coehoorn, Joel <jcoeho...@york.edu> wrote:
> 
> Best case scenario: Ruckus' awesome Dynamic PSK feature gets rolled into 
> Cloudpath for the rest of us and the pricing comes down in an effort to use 
> CloudPath to eventually sway customers towards Ruckus hardware. Worst case: 
> Cloudpath effectively goes Ruckus-only, leaving us to move to either 
> Secure-W2, Cisco ISE, or Aruba ClearPass.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Joel Coehoorn
> Director of Information Technology
> 402.363.5603
> jcoeho...@york.edu <mailto:jcoeho...@york.edu>
> 
> 
> The mission of York College is to transform lives through Christ-centered 
> education and to equip students for lifelong service to God, family, and 
> society
> 
> On Thu, Oct 22, 2015 at 9:58 AM, Frank Sweetser <f...@wpi.edu 
> <mailto:f...@wpi.edu>> wrote:
> Well that's... interesting.
> 
> Anyone heard any rumors about what their roadmap might be?  These 
> acquisitions of an independent service by a larger portfolio company rarely 
> seem to well for customers of the independent service if you're not also a 
> customer of the large one.
> 
> Frank Sweetser fs at wpi.edu <http://wpi.edu/>|  For every problem, there 
> is a solution that
> Manager of Network Operations   |  is simple, elegant, and wrong.
> Worcester Polytechnic Institute |   - HL Mencken
> 
> On 10/22/2015 10:43 AM, Lee H Badman wrote:
> FYI.
> *Lee Badman*| Network Architect
> Information Technology Services
> 206 Machinery Hall
> 120 Smith Drive
> Syracuse, New York 13244
> *t* 315.443.3003  *f* 315.443.4325  *e* 
> _lhbadman@syr.edu_
> <mailto:lhbad...@syr.edu <mailto:lhbad...@syr.edu>> *w* its.syr.edu 
> <http://its.syr.edu/>
> *SYRACUSE UNIVERSITY
> *syr.edu <http://syr.edu/>
> ** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE
> Constituent Group discussion list can be found at
> http://www.educause.edu/groups/ <http://www.educause.edu/groups/>.
> 
> 
> **
> Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent 
> Group discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/ 
> <http://www.educause.edu/groups/>.
> 
> ** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE 
> Constituent Group discussion list can be found at 
> http://www.educause.edu/groups/ <http://www.educause.edu/groups/>.
> 


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Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Ruckus has purchased Cloudpath

[David R. Morton]

Ryan, 

I would also be interested in hearing how your SecureW2 deployment is going. 

We have their solution, but are underutilizing it at the moment as it is only 
used for eduroam configuration/onboarding (though we are in a transition with 
most users directed to the eduroam CAT). The underutilization is completely on 
our side and we’ve received great support from the SecureW2 team so far. 

David

David Morton
Director, Mobile Communications
Service Owner: Wi-Fi, Mobile & HuskyTV
University of Washington
dmor...@u.washington.edu

> On Oct 22, 2015, at 8:01 AM, Chuck Anderson  wrote:
> 
> Why did you switch to SecureW2?
> 
> On Thu, Oct 22, 2015 at 02:56:18PM +, Turner, Ryan H wrote:
>> Wow.  That came out of nowhere.   We officially switched to SecureW2 for on 
>> boarding at the beginning of the year from Cloudpath.  Any news about 
>> management changes?  Is Kevin still running the ship?
>> 
>> Ryan Turner
>> Senior Network Engineer, ITS
>> The University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill
>> +1 919 274 7926 Mobile
>> +1 919 445 0113 Office
>> 
>> On Oct 22, 2015, at 10:45 AM, Lee H Badman 
>> > wrote:
>> 
>> FYI.
>> 
>> Lee Badman | Network Architect
>> Information Technology Services
>> 206 Machinery Hall
>> 120 Smith Drive
>> Syracuse, New York 13244
>> t 315.443.3003   f 315.443.4325   e 
>> lhbad...@syr.edu w its.syr.edu
>> SYRACUSE UNIVERSITY
>> syr.edu
> 
> **
> Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent 
> Group discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/.






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Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Ruckus has purchased Cloudpath

[Turner, Ryan H]

My email is r...@unc.edu.  Send me an email.  I might setup a call for those 
interested.  

Ryan Turner
Senior Network Engineer, ITS
The University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill
+1 919 274 7926 Mobile
+1 919 445 0113 Office

> On Oct 22, 2015, at 11:19 AM, David R. Morton  wrote:
> 
> Ryan, 
> 
> I would also be interested in hearing how your SecureW2 deployment is going. 
> 
> We have their solution, but are underutilizing it at the moment as it is only 
> used for eduroam configuration/onboarding (though we are in a transition with 
> most users directed to the eduroam CAT). The underutilization is completely 
> on our side and we’ve received great support from the SecureW2 team so far. 
> 
> David
> 
> David Morton
> Director, Mobile Communications
> Service Owner: Wi-Fi, Mobile & HuskyTV
> University of Washington
> dmor...@u.washington.edu
> 
>> On Oct 22, 2015, at 8:01 AM, Chuck Anderson  wrote:
>> 
>> Why did you switch to SecureW2?
>> 
>>> On Thu, Oct 22, 2015 at 02:56:18PM +, Turner, Ryan H wrote:
>>> Wow.  That came out of nowhere.   We officially switched to SecureW2 for on 
>>> boarding at the beginning of the year from Cloudpath.  Any news about 
>>> management changes?  Is Kevin still running the ship?
>>> 
>>> Ryan Turner
>>> Senior Network Engineer, ITS
>>> The University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill
>>> +1 919 274 7926 Mobile
>>> +1 919 445 0113 Office
>>> 
>>> On Oct 22, 2015, at 10:45 AM, Lee H Badman 
>>> > wrote:
>>> 
>>> FYI.
>>> 
>>> Lee Badman | Network Architect
>>> Information Technology Services
>>> 206 Machinery Hall
>>> 120 Smith Drive
>>> Syracuse, New York 13244
>>> t 315.443.3003   f 315.443.4325   e 
>>> lhbad...@syr.edu w its.syr.edu
>>> SYRACUSE UNIVERSITY
>>> syr.edu
>> 
>> **
>> Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent 
>> Group discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> **
> Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent 
> Group discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/.
> 

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Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Ruckus has purchased Cloudpath

[Chuck Anderson]

Why did you switch to SecureW2?

On Thu, Oct 22, 2015 at 02:56:18PM +, Turner, Ryan H wrote:
> Wow.  That came out of nowhere.   We officially switched to SecureW2 for on 
> boarding at the beginning of the year from Cloudpath.  Any news about 
> management changes?  Is Kevin still running the ship?
> 
> Ryan Turner
> Senior Network Engineer, ITS
> The University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill
> +1 919 274 7926 Mobile
> +1 919 445 0113 Office
> 
> On Oct 22, 2015, at 10:45 AM, Lee H Badman 
> > wrote:
> 
> FYI.
> 
> Lee Badman | Network Architect
> Information Technology Services
> 206 Machinery Hall
> 120 Smith Drive
> Syracuse, New York 13244
> t 315.443.3003   f 315.443.4325   e lhbad...@syr.edu 
> w its.syr.edu
> SYRACUSE UNIVERSITY
> syr.edu

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Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Ruckus has purchased Cloudpath

[Coehoorn, Joel]

Best case scenario: Ruckus' awesome Dynamic PSK feature gets rolled into
Cloudpath for the rest of us and the pricing comes down in an effort to use
CloudPath to eventually sway customers towards Ruckus hardware. Worst case:
Cloudpath effectively goes Ruckus-only, leaving us to move to either
Secure-W2, Cisco ISE, or Aruba ClearPass.



Joel Coehoorn
Director of Information Technology
402.363.5603
*jcoeho...@york.edu <jcoeho...@york.edu>*

The mission of York College is to transform lives through
Christ-centered education and to equip students for lifelong service to
God, family, and society

On Thu, Oct 22, 2015 at 9:58 AM, Frank Sweetser <f...@wpi.edu> wrote:

> Well that's... interesting.
>
> Anyone heard any rumors about what their roadmap might be?  These
> acquisitions of an independent service by a larger portfolio company rarely
> seem to well for customers of the independent service if you're not also a
> customer of the large one.
>
> Frank Sweetser fs at wpi.edu|  For every problem, there is a solution
> that
> Manager of Network Operations   |  is simple, elegant, and wrong.
> Worcester Polytechnic Institute |   - HL Mencken
>
> On 10/22/2015 10:43 AM, Lee H Badman wrote:
>
>> FYI.
>> *Lee Badman*| Network Architect
>> Information Technology Services
>> 206 Machinery Hall
>> 120 Smith Drive
>> Syracuse, New York 13244
>> *t* 315.443.3003 *f* 315.443.4325 *e* _lhbadman@syr.edu_
>> <mailto:lhbad...@syr.edu> *w* its.syr.edu
>> *SYRACUSE UNIVERSITY
>> *syr.edu
>> ** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE
>> Constituent Group discussion list can be found at
>> http://www.educause.edu/groups/.
>>
>>
> **
> Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent
> Group discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/.
>

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Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Ruckus has purchased Cloudpath

[Turner, Ryan H]

A lot of reasons.  We are an EAP TLS shop.  We were with the enrollment 
platform almost from the beginning (I think Kevin said we were inside if the 
first 10) and used it for a few hundred thousand onboards during 2 years.  I 
would love to share all the reasons to the list, but I would prefer not to 
discuss those decisions in an open forum.  Please send me an email directly. 

But we didn't switch lightly.  A lot of testing abs verification before we 
decided to switch.  

Ryan Turner
Senior Network Engineer, ITS
The University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill
+1 919 274 7926 Mobile
+1 919 445 0113 Office

> On Oct 22, 2015, at 11:03 AM, Chuck Anderson  wrote:
> 
>> On Thu, Oct 22, 2015 at 02:56:18PM +, Turner, Ryan H wrote:
>> Wow.  That came out of nowhere.   We officially switched to SecureW2 for on 
>> boarding at the beginning of the year from Cloudpath.  Any news about 
>> management changes?  Is Kevin still running the ship?
>> 
>> Ryan Turner
>> Senior Network Engineer, ITS
>> The University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill
>> +1 919 274 7926 Mobile
>> +1 919 445 0113 Office
>> 
>> On Oct 22, 2015, at 10:45 AM, Lee H Badman 
>> > wrote:
>> 
>> FYI.
>> 
>> Lee Badman | Network Architect
>> Information Technology Services
>> 206 Machinery Hall
>> 120 Smith Drive
>> Syracuse, New York 13244
>> t 315.443.3003   f 315.443.4325   e 
>> lhbad...@syr.edu w its.syr.edu
>> SYRACUSE UNIVERSITY
>> syr.edu
> 
> **
> Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent 
> Group discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/.

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RE: [WIRELESS-LAN] Ruckus has purchased Cloudpath

[Curtis K. Larsen]

I have to be honest - not really excited to see this.  We've been using 
Cloudpath Networks for 8 years including the Enrollment System with EAP-TLS for 
a year - and I've been super pleased with it.  I hope they intend to support 
non-Ruckus vendors for a long time and keep Kevin Koster running things.

Curtis Larsen
University Of Utah IT/CIS
Sr. Network Engineer
Office 801-587-1313


From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv 
[WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] on behalf of Coehoorn, Joel 
[jcoeho...@york.edu]
Sent: Thursday, October 22, 2015 9:02 AM
To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU
Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Ruckus has purchased Cloudpath

Best case scenario: Ruckus' awesome Dynamic PSK feature gets rolled into 
Cloudpath for the rest of us and the pricing comes down in an effort to use 
CloudPath to eventually sway customers towards Ruckus hardware. Worst case: 
Cloudpath effectively goes Ruckus-only, leaving us to move to either Secure-W2, 
Cisco ISE, or Aruba ClearPass.




[http://www.york.edu/Portals/0/Images/Logo/YorkCollegeLogoSmall.jpg]


Joel Coehoorn
Director of Information Technology
402.363.5603
jcoeho...@york.edu<mailto:jcoeho...@york.edu>




The mission of York College is to transform lives through Christ-centered 
education and to equip students for lifelong service to God, family, and society

On Thu, Oct 22, 2015 at 9:58 AM, Frank Sweetser 
<f...@wpi.edu<mailto:f...@wpi.edu>> wrote:
Well that's... interesting.

Anyone heard any rumors about what their roadmap might be?  These acquisitions 
of an independent service by a larger portfolio company rarely seem to well for 
customers of the independent service if you're not also a customer of the large 
one.

Frank Sweetser fs at wpi.edu<http://wpi.edu>|  For every problem, there is 
a solution that
Manager of Network Operations   |  is simple, elegant, and wrong.
Worcester Polytechnic Institute |   - HL Mencken

On 10/22/2015 10:43 AM, Lee H Badman wrote:
FYI.
*Lee Badman*| Network Architect
Information Technology Services
206 Machinery Hall
120 Smith Drive
Syracuse, New York 13244
*t* 315.443.3003 *f* 315.443.4325 *e* 
_lhbadman@syr.edu_
<mailto:lhbad...@syr.edu<mailto:lhbad...@syr.edu>> *w* 
its.syr.edu<http://its.syr.edu>
*SYRACUSE UNIVERSITY
*syr.edu<http://syr.edu>
** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE
Constituent Group discussion list can be found at
http://www.educause.edu/groups/.


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Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Ruckus has purchased Cloudpath

[Philippe Hanset]

Just to clarify, CAT (cat.eduroam.org) is mostly designed for PEAP and 
EAP-TTLS. 
You could use it for EAP-TLS but it doesn’t tie to a PKI (that part of the code 
is missing)

Support for EAP-TTLS for Windows XP-VISTA-7 was interrupted this year after 
SecureW2 asked CAT to stop using its code.

But new version of MacOS do not support EAP-TTLS, so it seems that EAP-TTLS 
might really disappear anyway!
(if you want to support PEAP in a non Microsoft environment, you can read this: 
https://www.eduroam.us/node/97)

Philippe

Philippe Hanset
www.eduroam.us


> On Oct 22, 2015, at 11:14 AM, Philippe Hanset <phan...@anyroam.net> wrote:
> 
> Or if you only care about 802.1X automatic configuration (and not about all 
> the features of device management that come with Cloudpath and others)
> you can use the free configuration tool from cat.eduroam.org 
> <http://cat.eduroam.org/> (definitely not as good as Cloudpath, but good 
> enough for many of us ..and it does support your local SSID in addition to 
> eduroam)
> 
> Philippe
> 
> Philippe Hanset
> www.eduroam.us <http://www.eduroam.us/>
>> On Oct 22, 2015, at 11:02 AM, Coehoorn, Joel <jcoeho...@york.edu 
>> <mailto:jcoeho...@york.edu>> wrote:
>> 
>> Best case scenario: Ruckus' awesome Dynamic PSK feature gets rolled into 
>> Cloudpath for the rest of us and the pricing comes down in an effort to use 
>> CloudPath to eventually sway customers towards Ruckus hardware. Worst case: 
>> Cloudpath effectively goes Ruckus-only, leaving us to move to either 
>> Secure-W2, Cisco ISE, or Aruba ClearPass.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Joel Coehoorn
>> Director of Information Technology
>> 402.363.5603
>> jcoeho...@york.edu <mailto:jcoeho...@york.edu>
>> 
>> 
>> The mission of York College is to transform lives through Christ-centered 
>> education and to equip students for lifelong service to God, family, and 
>> society
>> 
>> On Thu, Oct 22, 2015 at 9:58 AM, Frank Sweetser <f...@wpi.edu 
>> <mailto:f...@wpi.edu>> wrote:
>> Well that's... interesting.
>> 
>> Anyone heard any rumors about what their roadmap might be?  These 
>> acquisitions of an independent service by a larger portfolio company rarely 
>> seem to well for customers of the independent service if you're not also a 
>> customer of the large one.
>> 
>> Frank Sweetser fs at wpi.edu <http://wpi.edu/>|  For every problem, 
>> there is a solution that
>> Manager of Network Operations   |  is simple, elegant, and wrong.
>> Worcester Polytechnic Institute |   - HL Mencken
>> 
>> On 10/22/2015 10:43 AM, Lee H Badman wrote:
>> FYI.
>> *Lee Badman*| Network Architect
>> Information Technology Services
>> 206 Machinery Hall
>> 120 Smith Drive
>> Syracuse, New York 13244
>> *t* 315.443.3003  *f* 315.443.4325  *e* 
>> _lhbad...@syr.edu <mailto:lhbad...@syr.edu>_
>> <mailto:lhbad...@syr.edu <mailto:lhbad...@syr.edu>> *w* its.syr.edu 
>> <http://its.syr.edu/>
>> *SYRACUSE UNIVERSITY
>> *syr.edu <http://syr.edu/>
>> ** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE
>> Constituent Group discussion list can be found at
>> http://www.educause.edu/groups/ <http://www.educause.edu/groups/>.
>> 
>> 
>> **
>> Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent 
>> Group discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/ 
>> <http://www.educause.edu/groups/>.
>> 
>> ** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE 
>> Constituent Group discussion list can be found at 
>> http://www.educause.edu/groups/ <http://www.educause.edu/groups/>.
>> 
> 
> ** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE 
> Constituent Group discussion list can be found at 
> http://www.educause.edu/groups/ <http://www.educause.edu/groups/>.
> 


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RE: Ruckus has purchased Cloudpath

[Higgins, Benjamin John]

Just for completeness sake - Ruckus posted the press release this morning:  
http://www.ruckuswireless.com/press/releases/20151021-ruckus-wireless-acquires-cloudpath-networks-simplify-wi-fi-onboarding

In speaking to our CloudPath rep, we heard "We will remain Cloudpath and our 
product will remain XpressConnect. I will confirm if we have a specific roadmap 
and get back to you information as soon as I get it."  This gives me hope that 
in the short term through the school year, the product will say with its 
current feature set.

Beyond that ... not sure yet.

--ben

--
Benjamin J. Higgins ('97), JNCIA-Junos | bjhigg...@wpi.edu
Network Engineer   | Office 508.831.4860
Worcester Polytechnic Institute| Cell   508.713.1739




From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv 
[mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Lee H Badman
Sent: Thursday, October 22, 2015 10:44 AM
To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU
Subject: [WIRELESS-LAN] Ruckus has purchased Cloudpath

FYI.

Lee Badman | Network Architect
Information Technology Services
206 Machinery Hall
120 Smith Drive
Syracuse, New York 13244
t 315.443.3003   f 315.443.4325   e lhbad...@syr.edu<mailto:lhbad...@syr.edu> w 
its.syr.edu
SYRACUSE UNIVERSITY
syr.edu



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Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Juniper and Ruckus- FYI

[Frank Sweetser]

Huh. So much for the deep Aruba/Juniper integration that was threatened.

Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.

On June 23, 2015 8:53:32 AM EDT, Lee H Badman lhbad...@syr.edu wrote:
http://www.juniper.net/assets/us/en/local/pdf/solutionbriefs/3510546-en.pdf?


-Lee


Lee H. Badman
Network Architect/Wireless TME
ITS, Syracuse University
315.443.3003

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Juniper and Ruckus- FYI

[Lee H Badman]

http://www.juniper.net/assets/us/en/local/pdf/solutionbriefs/3510546-en.pdf?


-Lee


Lee H. Badman
Network Architect/Wireless TME
ITS, Syracuse University
315.443.3003

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Ruckus Wireless Indoors, High Density Clients

[David France]

Is anyone using Ruckus Wireless for an indoor, small area, high client density 
and number, mobile client application?

It seems to make sense that their multiple element antennas and proprietary 
beamforming would be able to change phase of the signal directed to a client, 
but I don't know the significance of their antenna differences is in an indoor 
environment with a high density of mobile clients. 

Thanks

David France
The Art Institute of Chicago





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Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Ruckus

[Harry Rauch]

I haven't had to do so. However, your assumption may be valid since I 
can see a dramatic increase in speed after the initial 3-4 secs that 
would indicate that the beam-forming had kicked in especially at longer 
distances.


After the initial burst the data stream was consistent in bandwidth as 
long as your were attached to that AP. Interestingly, when in a meshed 
area the bandwidth did not drop off as the computer moved from AP to AP.


Harry Rauch Sr. Network Analyst Eckerd College 4200 - 54th Ave S St. 
Petersburg, FL 33711


On 8/17/11 11:22 PM, Johnson, Bruce T. wrote:

Do you modify Mandatory/Supported the data rates on Ruckus APs?

I suspect keeping lower Mandatory rates allows clients to associate at long 
range with broadcast frames sent omni-directionally, after which beamforming 
kicks in for unidirectional data frames at higher data rates.

Thanks,

Bruce T. Johnson | Network Engineer | Partners Healthcare
617.726.9662 | bjohns...@partners.org

-Original Message-
From: Harry Rauch [rauc...@eckerd.edu]
Received: Wednesday, 17 Aug 2011, 10:49am
To: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv 
[WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU]
CC: Johnson, Bruce T. [bjohns...@partners.org]
Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Ruckus

 From what I can tell they use the MAC address as a base identifier; in a mesh the system 
identifies the device and somehow decides and which AP has a better signal/connection. 
Unmeshed APs simply hold on to the device until the signal becomes too weak 
when another AP would be picked up by the computer.

Ekahau has a free WiFi heatmap that we use to identify weak areas. There are 
many more out there but I like free and it does a good job for us. It is 
passive in nature.


Harry Rauch Sr. Network Analyst Eckerd College 4200 - 54th Ave S St. 
Petersburg, FL 33711

On 8/17/11 10:38 AM, Johnson, Bruce T. wrote:

The question I have had with Ruckus is how their APs coordinate their 
beamforming activities so as to not contend for the same clients. It seems 
there would need to be a control plane to avoid AP contention.

How does one survey for these APs? Do you factor in the beamforming (unicast 
frames, active survey) or not (broadcast frames, and passive survey)?

Thanks,

Bruce T. Johnson | Network Engineer | Partners Healthcare
617.726.9662 | bjohns...@partners.orgmailto:bjohns...@partners.org

-Original Message-
From: Lee H Badman [lhbad...@syr.edumailto:lhbad...@syr.edu]
Received: Wednesday, 17 Aug 2011, 10:08am
To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDUmailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU  
[WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDUmailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU]
Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Ruckus

Agreed- and it is fascinating stuff.

From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv 
[WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDUmailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On 
Behalf Of Brian Helman [bhel...@salemstate.edumailto:bhel...@salemstate.edu]
Sent: Wednesday, August 17, 2011 9:59 AM
To: 
WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDUmailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU
Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Ruckus

Lee, one thing to be aware of is that these other companies (Ruckus, Xirrus, 
etc) use arrays, not access points.  So there are multiple radios per unit.  On 
a per-radio basis, the number of users may be similar to a single access point 
(we’ve found it to be higher by about 20-30%), but collectively you can get a 
good number of users per unit.

Another thing to consider is the wiring to feed the AP.  If you have an AP 
running 11n, do you give it a 100Mbs connection or 1Gbs?  Which is the bigger 
waste of bandwidth? Now take a multi-radio device and ask the same question.  
If you have 4 radios @ 11n each, then a 1Gbs connection scales perfectly.  Now 
the downside is, what if you only need to support 10-15 users.  An array is 
overkill.

-Brian

From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv 
[mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Lee H Badman
Sent: Wednesday, August 17, 2011 8:27 AM
To: 
WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDUmailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU
Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Ruckus

Excellent information, Harry- Thanks. I have a feeling Cisco cringes to read 
that 3500 APs were tested with 4402s instead of 5508 controllers.

-Lee Badman


From: Harry Rauch 
[mailto:rauc...@eckerd.edu]mailto:[mailto:rauc...@eckerd.edu]mailto:[mailto:rauc...@eckerd.edu]
Sent: Wednesday, August 17, 2011 8:22 AM
To: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv
Cc: Lee H Badman
Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Ruckus

Yes, we ran both systems at max power to allow for greatest range; our 
densities in some lecture halls were over 150 active users for one array.

Ruckus provides a link to Tom's Hardware Guide that has done some extensive 
testing of several front-line enterprises APs. The results may surprise you.

Here's the link.

http://www.ruckuswireless.com/press

RE: [WIRELESS-LAN] Ruckus

[Lee H Badman]

Strictly out of scientific curiosity, is the reduction in APs while gaining 
coverage based on similar power settings in both hardware sets, and how do you 
answer the yeah, but what about client capacity concerns in dense areas? 
question when the number of APs and uplinks to the network is reduced? Again, 
no axe to grind, genuinely curious.

I know Cisco's CAPWAP solution seems to strive to keep APs at less than full 
power. It's even a metric in the RMM panel in WCS AP's at maximum power and 
the lower your percentage the better things are considered to be, generally 
speaking.  At the same time, we probably all have spaces where maybe 3 APs 
would fill the building, but three times that are used to keep cell size small 
and users per AP at a ratio that delivers higher client throughputs on the 
wireless shared media. In this case, we could certainly reduce our AP counts by 
upping the power, but it comes with trade-offs.

I guess I'm wondering how much of the Ruckus advantages are philosophical 
(simply use less APs at higher power to cover same space) and how much is 
technical wizardry.

Thanks-

Lee Badman

Lee H. Badman
Wireless/Network Engineer
Information Technology and Services
Adjunct Instructor, iSchool
Syracuse University
315 443-3003


From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv 
[mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Harry Rauch
Sent: Tuesday, August 16, 2011 12:12 PM
To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU
Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Ruckus

We have almost completely converted to Ruckus from Cisco and Extreme.

We have had very little need for support; the things just work. We have reduced 
our AP numbers by over 30% with better coverage. Once installed in a dorm 
setting we have never had to go back other than one device that drowned from a 
leaking air-conditioner pan. Our dealer replaced the device at no cost even 
though water damage of this nature is not covered.

The indoor models and outdoor function well and deliver outstanding data, video 
and VoIP. We are also using the wireless point-to-point bridge at a distance of 
500 yards with throughput at 250MB. We have the p2p pair on portable stands; 
one had blown over during a very bad storm but was able to keep connectivity 
when hanging upside down with the main dome facing a wall 180 degrees away from 
it's partner. We didn't realize the issue for several days since it never went 
down.

We use a Zone Director 1000 to establish a mesh group and to keep track of 
rogue devices. I would like a 3000 but we don't have that in our budget lines 
at the moment. We have over 100 APs throughout the campus.

We have had them almost 2 years with no issues. Client problems have not been 
an issue.

Amazing devices.
Harry Rauch Sr. Network Analyst Eckerd College 4200 - 54th Ave S St. 
Petersburg, FL 33711

On 8/16/11 11:50 AM, Kellogg, Brian D. wrote:
Looking for feedback from any institutions using Ruckus as their WLAN solution.

Comments on their support, WAPs, Controllers, client problems and any other 
related topics would be appreciated.


Thanks,
Brian
** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE 
Constituent Group discussion list can be found at 
http://www.educause.edu/groups/.


No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.comhttp://www.avg.com
Version: 10.0.1392 / Virus Database: 1520/3837 - Release Date: 08/16/11
** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE 
Constituent Group discussion list can be found at 
http://www.educause.edu/groups/.

**
Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group 
discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/.

Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Ruckus

[Harry Rauch]

Yes, we ran both systems at max power to allow for greatest range; our 
densities in some lecture halls were over 150 active users for one array.


Ruckus provides a link to Tom's Hardware Guide that has done some 
extensive testing of several front-line enterprises APs. The results may 
surprise you.


Here's the link.

http://www.ruckuswireless.com/press/releases/20110718-independent-test-reveals-ruckus-outperforms-others

My suggestion would be to go to Tom's after reading the filtered 
version for a more extensive explanation.


Harry Rauch Sr. Network Analyst Eckerd College 4200 - 54th Ave S St. 
Petersburg, FL 33711


On 8/17/11 8:02 AM, Lee H Badman wrote:


Strictly out of scientific curiosity, is the reduction in APs while 
gaining coverage based on similar power settings in both hardware 
sets, and how do you answer the yeah, but what about client capacity 
concerns in dense areas? question when the number of APs and uplinks 
to the network is reduced? Again, no axe to grind, genuinely curious.


I know Cisco's CAPWAP solution seems to strive to keep APs at less 
than full power. It's even a metric in the RMM panel in WCS AP's at 
maximum power and the lower your percentage the better things are 
considered to be, generally speaking.  At the same time, we probably 
all have spaces where maybe 3 APs would fill the building, but three 
times that are used to keep cell size small and users per AP at a 
ratio that delivers higher client throughputs on the wireless shared 
media. In this case, we could certainly reduce our AP counts by upping 
the power, but it comes with trade-offs.


I guess I'm wondering how much of the Ruckus advantages are 
philosophical (simply use less APs at higher power to cover same 
space) and how much is technical wizardry.


Thanks-

Lee Badman

Lee H. Badman

Wireless/Network Engineer

Information Technology and Services

Adjunct Instructor, iSchool

Syracuse University

315 443-3003

*From:*The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv 
[mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] *On Behalf Of *Harry Rauch

*Sent:* Tuesday, August 16, 2011 12:12 PM
*To:* WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU
*Subject:* Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Ruckus

We have almost completely converted to Ruckus from Cisco and Extreme.

We have had very little need for support; the things just work. We 
have reduced our AP numbers by over 30% with better coverage. Once 
installed in a dorm setting we have never had to go back other than 
one device that drowned from a leaking air-conditioner pan. Our dealer 
replaced the device at no cost even though water damage of this nature 
is not covered.


The indoor models and outdoor function well and deliver outstanding 
data, video and VoIP. We are also using the wireless point-to-point 
bridge at a distance of 500 yards with throughput at 250MB. We have 
the p2p pair on portable stands; one had blown over during a very bad 
storm but was able to keep connectivity when hanging upside down with 
the main dome facing a wall 180 degrees away from it's partner. We 
didn't realize the issue for several days since it never went down.


We use a Zone Director 1000 to establish a mesh group and to keep 
track of rogue devices. I would like a 3000 but we don't have that in 
our budget lines at the moment. We have over 100 APs throughout the 
campus.


We have had them almost 2 years with no issues. Client problems have 
not been an issue.


Amazing devices.

Harry Rauch Sr. Network Analyst Eckerd College 4200 - 54th Ave S St. 
Petersburg, FL 33711



On 8/16/11 11:50 AM, Kellogg, Brian D. wrote:

Looking for feedback from any institutions using Ruckus as their WLAN 
solution.


Comments on their support, WAPs, Controllers, client problems and any 
other related topics would be appreciated.


Thanks,

Brian

** Participation and subscription information for this 
EDUCAUSE Constituent Group discussion list can be found at 
http://www.educause.edu/groups/.




No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com http://www.avg.com
Version: 10.0.1392 / Virus Database: 1520/3837 - Release Date: 08/16/11

** Participation and subscription information for this 
EDUCAUSE Constituent Group discussion list can be found at 
http://www.educause.edu/groups/.


** Participation and subscription information for this 
EDUCAUSE Constituent Group discussion list can be found at 
http://www.educause.edu/groups/.




**
Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group 
discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/.

RE: [WIRELESS-LAN] Ruckus

[Lee H Badman]

Excellent information, Harry- Thanks. I have a feeling Cisco cringes to read 
that 3500 APs were tested with 4402s instead of 5508 controllers.

-Lee Badman


From: Harry Rauch [mailto:rauc...@eckerd.edu]
Sent: Wednesday, August 17, 2011 8:22 AM
To: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv
Cc: Lee H Badman
Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Ruckus

Yes, we ran both systems at max power to allow for greatest range; our 
densities in some lecture halls were over 150 active users for one array.

Ruckus provides a link to Tom's Hardware Guide that has done some extensive 
testing of several front-line enterprises APs. The results may surprise you.

Here's the link.

http://www.ruckuswireless.com/press/releases/20110718-independent-test-reveals-ruckus-outperforms-others

My suggestion would be to go to Tom's after reading the filtered version for 
a more extensive explanation.
Harry Rauch Sr. Network Analyst Eckerd College 4200 - 54th Ave S St. 
Petersburg, FL 33711

On 8/17/11 8:02 AM, Lee H Badman wrote:
Strictly out of scientific curiosity, is the reduction in APs while gaining 
coverage based on similar power settings in both hardware sets, and how do you 
answer the yeah, but what about client capacity concerns in dense areas? 
question when the number of APs and uplinks to the network is reduced? Again, 
no axe to grind, genuinely curious.

I know Cisco's CAPWAP solution seems to strive to keep APs at less than full 
power. It's even a metric in the RMM panel in WCS AP's at maximum power and 
the lower your percentage the better things are considered to be, generally 
speaking.  At the same time, we probably all have spaces where maybe 3 APs 
would fill the building, but three times that are used to keep cell size small 
and users per AP at a ratio that delivers higher client throughputs on the 
wireless shared media. In this case, we could certainly reduce our AP counts by 
upping the power, but it comes with trade-offs.

I guess I'm wondering how much of the Ruckus advantages are philosophical 
(simply use less APs at higher power to cover same space) and how much is 
technical wizardry.

Thanks-

Lee Badman

Lee H. Badman
Wireless/Network Engineer
Information Technology and Services
Adjunct Instructor, iSchool
Syracuse University
315 443-3003


From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv 
[mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Harry Rauch
Sent: Tuesday, August 16, 2011 12:12 PM
To: 
WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDUmailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU
Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Ruckus

We have almost completely converted to Ruckus from Cisco and Extreme.

We have had very little need for support; the things just work. We have reduced 
our AP numbers by over 30% with better coverage. Once installed in a dorm 
setting we have never had to go back other than one device that drowned from a 
leaking air-conditioner pan. Our dealer replaced the device at no cost even 
though water damage of this nature is not covered.

The indoor models and outdoor function well and deliver outstanding data, video 
and VoIP. We are also using the wireless point-to-point bridge at a distance of 
500 yards with throughput at 250MB. We have the p2p pair on portable stands; 
one had blown over during a very bad storm but was able to keep connectivity 
when hanging upside down with the main dome facing a wall 180 degrees away from 
it's partner. We didn't realize the issue for several days since it never went 
down.

We use a Zone Director 1000 to establish a mesh group and to keep track of 
rogue devices. I would like a 3000 but we don't have that in our budget lines 
at the moment. We have over 100 APs throughout the campus.

We have had them almost 2 years with no issues. Client problems have not been 
an issue.

Amazing devices.
Harry Rauch Sr. Network Analyst Eckerd College 4200 - 54th Ave S St. 
Petersburg, FL 33711

On 8/16/11 11:50 AM, Kellogg, Brian D. wrote:
Looking for feedback from any institutions using Ruckus as their WLAN solution.

Comments on their support, WAPs, Controllers, client problems and any other 
related topics would be appreciated.


Thanks,
Brian
** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE 
Constituent Group discussion list can be found at 
http://www.educause.edu/groups/.


No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.comhttp://www.avg.com
Version: 10.0.1392 / Virus Database: 1520/3837 - Release Date: 08/16/11
** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE 
Constituent Group discussion list can be found at 
http://www.educause.edu/groups/.
** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE 
Constituent Group discussion list can be found at 
http://www.educause.edu/groups/.


No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.comhttp://www.avg.com
Version: 10.0.1392 / Virus Database: 1520/3839

RE: Ruckus

[Kellogg, Brian D.]

We're looking seriously at Ruckus to solve our coverage issues simply due to 
the fact of where we had to install our APs in our dorms (in the hallways).  
Our initial tests show much improved SNR over most vendors to the edge of our 
dorms with their mid-range AP.  We had another vendor test almost as good; 
Aruba (G SNR was a good bit lower but still above 30 in most places, but A was 
a little higher on average).  These tests were in a pristine wireless 
environment; no sacks of water, books, etc... A lot of the performance 
difference on the omni antennas, which all use except Ruckus, has to do with 
the gain and thus the horizontal push from the antenna in our environment.  We 
aren't looking to decrease our AP count.


Brian

From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv 
[mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Lee H Badman
Sent: Wednesday, August 17, 2011 8:27 AM
To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU
Subject: Re: Ruckus

Excellent information, Harry- Thanks. I have a feeling Cisco cringes to read 
that 3500 APs were tested with 4402s instead of 5508 controllers.

-Lee Badman


From: Harry Rauch [mailto:rauc...@eckerd.edu]
Sent: Wednesday, August 17, 2011 8:22 AM
To: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv
Cc: Lee H Badman
Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Ruckus

Yes, we ran both systems at max power to allow for greatest range; our 
densities in some lecture halls were over 150 active users for one array.

Ruckus provides a link to Tom's Hardware Guide that has done some extensive 
testing of several front-line enterprises APs. The results may surprise you.

Here's the link.

http://www.ruckuswireless.com/press/releases/20110718-independent-test-reveals-ruckus-outperforms-others

My suggestion would be to go to Tom's after reading the filtered version for 
a more extensive explanation.
Harry Rauch Sr. Network Analyst Eckerd College 4200 - 54th Ave S St. 
Petersburg, FL 33711

On 8/17/11 8:02 AM, Lee H Badman wrote:
Strictly out of scientific curiosity, is the reduction in APs while gaining 
coverage based on similar power settings in both hardware sets, and how do you 
answer the yeah, but what about client capacity concerns in dense areas? 
question when the number of APs and uplinks to the network is reduced? Again, 
no axe to grind, genuinely curious.

I know Cisco's CAPWAP solution seems to strive to keep APs at less than full 
power. It's even a metric in the RMM panel in WCS AP's at maximum power and 
the lower your percentage the better things are considered to be, generally 
speaking.  At the same time, we probably all have spaces where maybe 3 APs 
would fill the building, but three times that are used to keep cell size small 
and users per AP at a ratio that delivers higher client throughputs on the 
wireless shared media. In this case, we could certainly reduce our AP counts by 
upping the power, but it comes with trade-offs.

I guess I'm wondering how much of the Ruckus advantages are philosophical 
(simply use less APs at higher power to cover same space) and how much is 
technical wizardry.

Thanks-

Lee Badman

Lee H. Badman
Wireless/Network Engineer
Information Technology and Services
Adjunct Instructor, iSchool
Syracuse University
315 443-3003


From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv 
[mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Harry Rauch
Sent: Tuesday, August 16, 2011 12:12 PM
To: 
WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDUmailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU
Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Ruckus

We have almost completely converted to Ruckus from Cisco and Extreme.

We have had very little need for support; the things just work. We have reduced 
our AP numbers by over 30% with better coverage. Once installed in a dorm 
setting we have never had to go back other than one device that drowned from a 
leaking air-conditioner pan. Our dealer replaced the device at no cost even 
though water damage of this nature is not covered.

The indoor models and outdoor function well and deliver outstanding data, video 
and VoIP. We are also using the wireless point-to-point bridge at a distance of 
500 yards with throughput at 250MB. We have the p2p pair on portable stands; 
one had blown over during a very bad storm but was able to keep connectivity 
when hanging upside down with the main dome facing a wall 180 degrees away from 
it's partner. We didn't realize the issue for several days since it never went 
down.

We use a Zone Director 1000 to establish a mesh group and to keep track of 
rogue devices. I would like a 3000 but we don't have that in our budget lines 
at the moment. We have over 100 APs throughout the campus.

We have had them almost 2 years with no issues. Client problems have not been 
an issue.

Amazing devices.
Harry Rauch Sr. Network Analyst Eckerd College 4200 - 54th Ave S St. 
Petersburg, FL 33711

On 8/16/11 11:50 AM, Kellogg, Brian D. wrote:
Looking for feedback from any institutions using

Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Ruckus

[Harry Rauch]

But in a real-world dorm scenario - microwaves, game consoles with 
wireless controllers, a wide variety of cell phones using the wireless, 
laptops that have Ad-hoc inadvertently turned on, etc. - the Ruckus has 
performed exceedingly well. Of course, for us, the cost factor was 
significant. We were able to go to the high-end 7962s and still be far 
less expensive. Many of our APs have been set and forget it; we 
monitor mainly using Solarwinds. Once a mesh is set it becomes 
autonomous unless you want to monkey with it. Our onsite visits to dorms 
has shrunk to the isolated non-Ruckus APs. Manpower cost reductions have 
been significant.


Harry Rauch Sr. Network Analyst Eckerd College 4200 - 54th Ave S St. 
Petersburg, FL 33711


On 8/17/11 8:47 AM, Kellogg, Brian D. wrote:


We're looking seriously at Ruckus to solve our coverage issues simply 
due to the fact of where we had to install our APs in our dorms (in 
the hallways).  Our initial tests show much improved SNR over most 
vendors to the edge of our dorms with their mid-range AP.  We had 
another vendor test almost as good; Aruba (G SNR was a good bit lower 
but still above 30 in most places, but A was a little higher on 
average).  These tests were in a pristine wireless environment; no 
sacks of water, books, etc... A lot of the performance difference on 
the omni antennas, which all use except Ruckus, has to do with the 
gain and thus the horizontal push from the antenna in our 
environment.  We aren't looking to decrease our AP count.


Brian

*From:*The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv 
[mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] *On Behalf Of *Lee H Badman

*Sent:* Wednesday, August 17, 2011 8:27 AM
*To:* WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU
*Subject:* Re: Ruckus

Excellent information, Harry- Thanks. I have a feeling Cisco cringes 
to read that 3500 APs were tested with 4402s instead of 5508 controllers.


-Lee Badman

*From:*Harry Rauch [mailto:rauc...@eckerd.edu]
*Sent:* Wednesday, August 17, 2011 8:22 AM
*To:* The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv
*Cc:* Lee H Badman
*Subject:* Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Ruckus

Yes, we ran both systems at max power to allow for greatest range; our 
densities in some lecture halls were over 150 active users for one array.


Ruckus provides a link to Tom's Hardware Guide that has done some 
extensive testing of several front-line enterprises APs. The results 
may surprise you.


Here's the link.

http://www.ruckuswireless.com/press/releases/20110718-independent-test-reveals-ruckus-outperforms-others

My suggestion would be to go to Tom's after reading the filtered 
version for a more extensive explanation.


Harry Rauch Sr. Network Analyst Eckerd College 4200 - 54th Ave S St. 
Petersburg, FL 33711



On 8/17/11 8:02 AM, Lee H Badman wrote:

Strictly out of scientific curiosity, is the reduction in APs while 
gaining coverage based on similar power settings in both hardware 
sets, and how do you answer the yeah, but what about client capacity 
concerns in dense areas? question when the number of APs and uplinks 
to the network is reduced? Again, no axe to grind, genuinely curious.


I know Cisco's CAPWAP solution seems to strive to keep APs at less 
than full power. It's even a metric in the RMM panel in WCS AP's at 
maximum power and the lower your percentage the better things are 
considered to be, generally speaking.  At the same time, we probably 
all have spaces where maybe 3 APs would fill the building, but three 
times that are used to keep cell size small and users per AP at a 
ratio that delivers higher client throughputs on the wireless shared 
media. In this case, we could certainly reduce our AP counts by upping 
the power, but it comes with trade-offs.


I guess I'm wondering how much of the Ruckus advantages are 
philosophical (simply use less APs at higher power to cover same 
space) and how much is technical wizardry.


Thanks-

Lee Badman

Lee H. Badman

Wireless/Network Engineer

Information Technology and Services

Adjunct Instructor, iSchool

Syracuse University

315 443-3003

*From:*The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv 
[mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] *On Behalf Of *Harry Rauch

*Sent:* Tuesday, August 16, 2011 12:12 PM
*To:* WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU 
mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU

*Subject:* Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Ruckus

We have almost completely converted to Ruckus from Cisco and Extreme.

We have had very little need for support; the things just work. We 
have reduced our AP numbers by over 30% with better coverage. Once 
installed in a dorm setting we have never had to go back other than 
one device that drowned from a leaking air-conditioner pan. Our dealer 
replaced the device at no cost even though water damage of this nature 
is not covered.


The indoor models and outdoor function well and deliver outstanding 
data, video and VoIP. We are also using the wireless point-to-point 
bridge at a distance

Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Ruckus

[Mike King]

The funny part about this article, Merikai is consistently horrible.

On Wed, Aug 17, 2011 at 9:19 AM, Mike King m...@mpking.com wrote:

 I'm thinking the Unfiltered version is this one?

 http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/wi-fi-performance,2985.html
 (Which also references this article, (the first part in a 2 part series))

 http://www.tomshardware.com/picturestory/571-wi-fi-beamforming-networking.html


 On Wed, Aug 17, 2011 at 8:47 AM, Kellogg, Brian D. bkell...@sbu.eduwrote:

 We’re looking seriously at Ruckus to solve our coverage issues simply due
 to the fact of where we had to install our APs in our dorms (in the
 hallways).  Our initial tests show much improved SNR over most vendors to
 the edge of our dorms with their mid-range AP.  We had another vendor test
 almost as good; Aruba (G SNR was a good bit lower but still above 30 in most
 places, but A was a little higher on average).  These tests were in a
 pristine wireless environment; no sacks of water, books, etc… A lot of the
 performance difference on the omni antennas, which all use except Ruckus,
 has to do with the gain and thus the horizontal push from the antenna in our
 environment.  We aren’t looking to decrease our AP count.

 ** **

 ** **

 Brian

 ** **

 *From:* The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv [mailto:
 WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] *On Behalf Of *Lee H Badman
 *Sent:* Wednesday, August 17, 2011 8:27 AM

 *To:* WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU
 *Subject:* Re: Ruckus

 ** **

 Excellent information, Harry- Thanks. I have a feeling Cisco cringes to
 read that 3500 APs were tested with 4402s instead of 5508 controllers.***
 *

 ** **

 -Lee Badman

 ** **

  

 *From:* Harry Rauch [mailto:rauc...@eckerd.edu]
 *Sent:* Wednesday, August 17, 2011 8:22 AM
 *To:* The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv
 *Cc:* Lee H Badman
 *Subject:* Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Ruckus

 ** **

 Yes, we ran both systems at max power to allow for greatest range; our
 densities in some lecture halls were over 150 active users for one array.

 Ruckus provides a link to Tom's Hardware Guide that has done some
 extensive testing of several front-line enterprises APs. The results may
 surprise you.

 Here's the link.


 http://www.ruckuswireless.com/press/releases/20110718-independent-test-reveals-ruckus-outperforms-others

 My suggestion would be to go to Tom's after reading the filtered version
 for a more extensive explanation.

 Harry Rauch Sr. Network Analyst Eckerd College 4200 - 54th Ave S St.
 Petersburg, FL 33711


 On 8/17/11 8:02 AM, Lee H Badman wrote: 

 Strictly out of scientific curiosity, is the reduction in APs while
 gaining coverage based on similar power settings in both hardware sets, and
 how do you answer the “yeah, but what about client capacity concerns in
 dense areas?” question when the number of APs and uplinks to the network is
 reduced? Again, no axe to grind, genuinely curious.

  

 I know Cisco’s CAPWAP solution seems to strive to keep APs at less than
 full power. It’s even a metric in the RMM panel in WCS “AP’s at maximum
 power” and the lower your percentage the “better” things are considered to
 be, generally speaking.  At the same time, we probably all have spaces where
 maybe 3 APs would fill the building, but three times that are used to keep
 cell size small and users per AP at a ratio that delivers higher client
 throughputs on the wireless shared media. In this case, we could certainly
 reduce our AP counts by upping the power, but it comes with trade-offs.**
 **

  

 I guess I’m wondering how much of the Ruckus advantages are philosophical
 (simply use less APs at higher power to cover same space) and how much is
 technical wizardry.

  

 Thanks-

  

 Lee Badman

  

 Lee H. Badman

 Wireless/Network Engineer

 Information Technology and Services

 Adjunct Instructor, iSchool

 Syracuse University

 315 443-3003

  

  

 *From:* The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv [
 mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDUWIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU]
 *On Behalf Of *Harry Rauch
 *Sent:* Tuesday, August 16, 2011 12:12 PM
 *To:* WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU
 *Subject:* Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Ruckus

  

 We have almost completely converted to Ruckus from Cisco and Extreme.

 We have had very little need for support; the things just work. We have
 reduced our AP numbers by over 30% with better coverage. Once installed in a
 dorm setting we have never had to go back other than one device that drowned
 from a leaking air-conditioner pan. Our dealer replaced the device at no
 cost even though water damage of this nature is not covered.

 The indoor models and outdoor function well and deliver outstanding data,
 video and VoIP. We are also using the wireless point-to-point bridge at a
 distance of 500 yards with throughput at 250MB. We have the p2p pair

RE: [WIRELESS-LAN] Ruckus

[Lee H Badman]

Well... I might challenge that to a point. Though I didn't lab test, I did just 
put in a 35-AP Meraki environment in Syracuse University's London facility. 
Spot checking through the wireless APs I tested (basically FTP of large files 
and simple throughput tests) showed what I would expect in 11n environments. 
Again- nothing lab-quality about my work, just quick verification that a 
new-to-me product works.

Wireless testing aside, I have found that the Meraki wireless and wired (MX-70) 
network was the absolute right solution for a remote site. The management and 
feature set are pretty impressive and three weeks in, we're quite happy so far.

Lee H. Badman
Wireless/Network Engineer
Information Technology and Services
Adjunct Instructor, iSchool
Syracuse University
315 443-3003


From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv 
[mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Mike King
Sent: Wednesday, August 17, 2011 9:20 AM
To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU
Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Ruckus

The funny part about this article, Merikai is consistently horrible.
On Wed, Aug 17, 2011 at 9:19 AM, Mike King 
m...@mpking.commailto:m...@mpking.com wrote:
I'm thinking the Unfiltered version is this one?

http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/wi-fi-performance,2985.html
(Which also references this article, (the first part in a 2 part series))
http://www.tomshardware.com/picturestory/571-wi-fi-beamforming-networking.html

On Wed, Aug 17, 2011 at 8:47 AM, Kellogg, Brian D. 
bkell...@sbu.edumailto:bkell...@sbu.edu wrote:
We're looking seriously at Ruckus to solve our coverage issues simply due to 
the fact of where we had to install our APs in our dorms (in the hallways).  
Our initial tests show much improved SNR over most vendors to the edge of our 
dorms with their mid-range AP.  We had another vendor test almost as good; 
Aruba (G SNR was a good bit lower but still above 30 in most places, but A was 
a little higher on average).  These tests were in a pristine wireless 
environment; no sacks of water, books, etc... A lot of the performance 
difference on the omni antennas, which all use except Ruckus, has to do with 
the gain and thus the horizontal push from the antenna in our environment.  We 
aren't looking to decrease our AP count.


Brian

From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv 
[mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDUmailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU]
 On Behalf Of Lee H Badman
Sent: Wednesday, August 17, 2011 8:27 AM

To: 
WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDUmailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU
Subject: Re: Ruckus

Excellent information, Harry- Thanks. I have a feeling Cisco cringes to read 
that 3500 APs were tested with 4402s instead of 5508 controllers.

-Lee Badman


From: Harry Rauch [mailto:rauc...@eckerd.edumailto:rauc...@eckerd.edu]
Sent: Wednesday, August 17, 2011 8:22 AM
To: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv
Cc: Lee H Badman
Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Ruckus

Yes, we ran both systems at max power to allow for greatest range; our 
densities in some lecture halls were over 150 active users for one array.

Ruckus provides a link to Tom's Hardware Guide that has done some extensive 
testing of several front-line enterprises APs. The results may surprise you.

Here's the link.

http://www.ruckuswireless.com/press/releases/20110718-independent-test-reveals-ruckus-outperforms-others

My suggestion would be to go to Tom's after reading the filtered version for 
a more extensive explanation.
Harry Rauch Sr. Network Analyst Eckerd College 4200 - 54th Ave S St. 
Petersburg, FL 33711

On 8/17/11 8:02 AM, Lee H Badman wrote:
Strictly out of scientific curiosity, is the reduction in APs while gaining 
coverage based on similar power settings in both hardware sets, and how do you 
answer the yeah, but what about client capacity concerns in dense areas? 
question when the number of APs and uplinks to the network is reduced? Again, 
no axe to grind, genuinely curious.

I know Cisco's CAPWAP solution seems to strive to keep APs at less than full 
power. It's even a metric in the RMM panel in WCS AP's at maximum power and 
the lower your percentage the better things are considered to be, generally 
speaking.  At the same time, we probably all have spaces where maybe 3 APs 
would fill the building, but three times that are used to keep cell size small 
and users per AP at a ratio that delivers higher client throughputs on the 
wireless shared media. In this case, we could certainly reduce our AP counts by 
upping the power, but it comes with trade-offs.

I guess I'm wondering how much of the Ruckus advantages are philosophical 
(simply use less APs at higher power to cover same space) and how much is 
technical wizardry.

Thanks-

Lee Badman

Lee H. Badman
Wireless/Network Engineer
Information Technology and Services
Adjunct Instructor, iSchool
Syracuse University
315 443-3003tel:315%20443-3003


From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless

RE: [WIRELESS-LAN] Ruckus

[Brian Helman]

Lee, one thing to be aware of is that these other companies (Ruckus, Xirrus, 
etc) use arrays, not access points.  So there are multiple radios per unit.  On 
a per-radio basis, the number of users may be similar to a single access point 
(we've found it to be higher by about 20-30%), but collectively you can get a 
good number of users per unit.

Another thing to consider is the wiring to feed the AP.  If you have an AP 
running 11n, do you give it a 100Mbs connection or 1Gbs?  Which is the bigger 
waste of bandwidth? Now take a multi-radio device and ask the same question.  
If you have 4 radios @ 11n each, then a 1Gbs connection scales perfectly.  Now 
the downside is, what if you only need to support 10-15 users.  An array is 
overkill.

-Brian

From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv 
[mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Lee H Badman
Sent: Wednesday, August 17, 2011 8:27 AM
To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU
Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Ruckus

Excellent information, Harry- Thanks. I have a feeling Cisco cringes to read 
that 3500 APs were tested with 4402s instead of 5508 controllers.

-Lee Badman


From: Harry Rauch 
[mailto:rauc...@eckerd.edu]mailto:[mailto:rauc...@eckerd.edu]
Sent: Wednesday, August 17, 2011 8:22 AM
To: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv
Cc: Lee H Badman
Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Ruckus

Yes, we ran both systems at max power to allow for greatest range; our 
densities in some lecture halls were over 150 active users for one array.

Ruckus provides a link to Tom's Hardware Guide that has done some extensive 
testing of several front-line enterprises APs. The results may surprise you.

Here's the link.

http://www.ruckuswireless.com/press/releases/20110718-independent-test-reveals-ruckus-outperforms-others

My suggestion would be to go to Tom's after reading the filtered version for 
a more extensive explanation.
Harry Rauch Sr. Network Analyst Eckerd College 4200 - 54th Ave S St. 
Petersburg, FL 33711

On 8/17/11 8:02 AM, Lee H Badman wrote:
Strictly out of scientific curiosity, is the reduction in APs while gaining 
coverage based on similar power settings in both hardware sets, and how do you 
answer the yeah, but what about client capacity concerns in dense areas? 
question when the number of APs and uplinks to the network is reduced? Again, 
no axe to grind, genuinely curious.

I know Cisco's CAPWAP solution seems to strive to keep APs at less than full 
power. It's even a metric in the RMM panel in WCS AP's at maximum power and 
the lower your percentage the better things are considered to be, generally 
speaking.  At the same time, we probably all have spaces where maybe 3 APs 
would fill the building, but three times that are used to keep cell size small 
and users per AP at a ratio that delivers higher client throughputs on the 
wireless shared media. In this case, we could certainly reduce our AP counts by 
upping the power, but it comes with trade-offs.

I guess I'm wondering how much of the Ruckus advantages are philosophical 
(simply use less APs at higher power to cover same space) and how much is 
technical wizardry.

Thanks-

Lee Badman

Lee H. Badman
Wireless/Network Engineer
Information Technology and Services
Adjunct Instructor, iSchool
Syracuse University
315 443-3003


From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv 
[mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Harry Rauch
Sent: Tuesday, August 16, 2011 12:12 PM
To: 
WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDUmailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU
Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Ruckus

We have almost completely converted to Ruckus from Cisco and Extreme.

We have had very little need for support; the things just work. We have reduced 
our AP numbers by over 30% with better coverage. Once installed in a dorm 
setting we have never had to go back other than one device that drowned from a 
leaking air-conditioner pan. Our dealer replaced the device at no cost even 
though water damage of this nature is not covered.

The indoor models and outdoor function well and deliver outstanding data, video 
and VoIP. We are also using the wireless point-to-point bridge at a distance of 
500 yards with throughput at 250MB. We have the p2p pair on portable stands; 
one had blown over during a very bad storm but was able to keep connectivity 
when hanging upside down with the main dome facing a wall 180 degrees away from 
it's partner. We didn't realize the issue for several days since it never went 
down.

We use a Zone Director 1000 to establish a mesh group and to keep track of 
rogue devices. I would like a 3000 but we don't have that in our budget lines 
at the moment. We have over 100 APs throughout the campus.

We have had them almost 2 years with no issues. Client problems have not been 
an issue.

Amazing devices.
Harry Rauch Sr. Network Analyst Eckerd College 4200 - 54th Ave S St. 
Petersburg, FL 33711

On 8/16/11 11:50 AM, Kellogg

RE: Ruckus

[Kellogg, Brian D.]

Due to the directional antenna array Ruckus uses they recommend not using 
dynamic power management.  Those that are using their APs; are you finding this 
to be viable in real world deployments?

-Brian #2

From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv 
[mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Brian Helman
Sent: Wednesday, August 17, 2011 9:59 AM
To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU
Subject: Re: Ruckus

Lee, one thing to be aware of is that these other companies (Ruckus, Xirrus, 
etc) use arrays, not access points.  So there are multiple radios per unit.  On 
a per-radio basis, the number of users may be similar to a single access point 
(we've found it to be higher by about 20-30%), but collectively you can get a 
good number of users per unit.

Another thing to consider is the wiring to feed the AP.  If you have an AP 
running 11n, do you give it a 100Mbs connection or 1Gbs?  Which is the bigger 
waste of bandwidth? Now take a multi-radio device and ask the same question.  
If you have 4 radios @ 11n each, then a 1Gbs connection scales perfectly.  Now 
the downside is, what if you only need to support 10-15 users.  An array is 
overkill.

-Brian

From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv 
[mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Lee H Badman
Sent: Wednesday, August 17, 2011 8:27 AM
To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU
Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Ruckus

Excellent information, Harry- Thanks. I have a feeling Cisco cringes to read 
that 3500 APs were tested with 4402s instead of 5508 controllers.

-Lee Badman


From: Harry Rauch 
[mailto:rauc...@eckerd.edu]mailto:[mailto:rauc...@eckerd.edu]
Sent: Wednesday, August 17, 2011 8:22 AM
To: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv
Cc: Lee H Badman
Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Ruckus

Yes, we ran both systems at max power to allow for greatest range; our 
densities in some lecture halls were over 150 active users for one array.

Ruckus provides a link to Tom's Hardware Guide that has done some extensive 
testing of several front-line enterprises APs. The results may surprise you.

Here's the link.

http://www.ruckuswireless.com/press/releases/20110718-independent-test-reveals-ruckus-outperforms-others

My suggestion would be to go to Tom's after reading the filtered version for 
a more extensive explanation.
Harry Rauch Sr. Network Analyst Eckerd College 4200 - 54th Ave S St. 
Petersburg, FL 33711

On 8/17/11 8:02 AM, Lee H Badman wrote:
Strictly out of scientific curiosity, is the reduction in APs while gaining 
coverage based on similar power settings in both hardware sets, and how do you 
answer the yeah, but what about client capacity concerns in dense areas? 
question when the number of APs and uplinks to the network is reduced? Again, 
no axe to grind, genuinely curious.

I know Cisco's CAPWAP solution seems to strive to keep APs at less than full 
power. It's even a metric in the RMM panel in WCS AP's at maximum power and 
the lower your percentage the better things are considered to be, generally 
speaking.  At the same time, we probably all have spaces where maybe 3 APs 
would fill the building, but three times that are used to keep cell size small 
and users per AP at a ratio that delivers higher client throughputs on the 
wireless shared media. In this case, we could certainly reduce our AP counts by 
upping the power, but it comes with trade-offs.

I guess I'm wondering how much of the Ruckus advantages are philosophical 
(simply use less APs at higher power to cover same space) and how much is 
technical wizardry.

Thanks-

Lee Badman

Lee H. Badman
Wireless/Network Engineer
Information Technology and Services
Adjunct Instructor, iSchool
Syracuse University
315 443-3003


From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv 
[mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Harry Rauch
Sent: Tuesday, August 16, 2011 12:12 PM
To: 
WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDUmailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU
Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Ruckus

We have almost completely converted to Ruckus from Cisco and Extreme.

We have had very little need for support; the things just work. We have reduced 
our AP numbers by over 30% with better coverage. Once installed in a dorm 
setting we have never had to go back other than one device that drowned from a 
leaking air-conditioner pan. Our dealer replaced the device at no cost even 
though water damage of this nature is not covered.

The indoor models and outdoor function well and deliver outstanding data, video 
and VoIP. We are also using the wireless point-to-point bridge at a distance of 
500 yards with throughput at 250MB. We have the p2p pair on portable stands; 
one had blown over during a very bad storm but was able to keep connectivity 
when hanging upside down with the main dome facing a wall 180 degrees away from 
it's partner. We didn't realize the issue for several days since it never went 
down.

We

RE: [WIRELESS-LAN] Ruckus

[Lee H Badman]

Agreed- and it is fascinating stuff.

From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv 
[WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Brian Helman 
[bhel...@salemstate.edu]
Sent: Wednesday, August 17, 2011 9:59 AM
To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU
Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Ruckus

Lee, one thing to be aware of is that these other companies (Ruckus, Xirrus, 
etc) use arrays, not access points.  So there are multiple radios per unit.  On 
a per-radio basis, the number of users may be similar to a single access point 
(we’ve found it to be higher by about 20-30%), but collectively you can get a 
good number of users per unit.

Another thing to consider is the wiring to feed the AP.  If you have an AP 
running 11n, do you give it a 100Mbs connection or 1Gbs?  Which is the bigger 
waste of bandwidth? Now take a multi-radio device and ask the same question.  
If you have 4 radios @ 11n each, then a 1Gbs connection scales perfectly.  Now 
the downside is, what if you only need to support 10-15 users.  An array is 
overkill.

-Brian

From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv 
[mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Lee H Badman
Sent: Wednesday, August 17, 2011 8:27 AM
To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU
Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Ruckus

Excellent information, Harry- Thanks. I have a feeling Cisco cringes to read 
that 3500 APs were tested with 4402s instead of 5508 controllers.

-Lee Badman


From: Harry Rauch 
[mailto:rauc...@eckerd.edu]mailto:[mailto:rauc...@eckerd.edu]
Sent: Wednesday, August 17, 2011 8:22 AM
To: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv
Cc: Lee H Badman
Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Ruckus

Yes, we ran both systems at max power to allow for greatest range; our 
densities in some lecture halls were over 150 active users for one array.

Ruckus provides a link to Tom's Hardware Guide that has done some extensive 
testing of several front-line enterprises APs. The results may surprise you.

Here's the link.

http://www.ruckuswireless.com/press/releases/20110718-independent-test-reveals-ruckus-outperforms-others

My suggestion would be to go to Tom's after reading the filtered version for 
a more extensive explanation.
Harry Rauch Sr. Network Analyst Eckerd College 4200 - 54th Ave S St. 
Petersburg, FL 33711

On 8/17/11 8:02 AM, Lee H Badman wrote:
Strictly out of scientific curiosity, is the reduction in APs while gaining 
coverage based on similar power settings in both hardware sets, and how do you 
answer the “yeah, but what about client capacity concerns in dense areas?” 
question when the number of APs and uplinks to the network is reduced? Again, 
no axe to grind, genuinely curious.

I know Cisco’s CAPWAP solution seems to strive to keep APs at less than full 
power. It’s even a metric in the RMM panel in WCS “AP’s at maximum power” and 
the lower your percentage the “better” things are considered to be, generally 
speaking.  At the same time, we probably all have spaces where maybe 3 APs 
would fill the building, but three times that are used to keep cell size small 
and users per AP at a ratio that delivers higher client throughputs on the 
wireless shared media. In this case, we could certainly reduce our AP counts by 
upping the power, but it comes with trade-offs.

I guess I’m wondering how much of the Ruckus advantages are philosophical 
(simply use less APs at higher power to cover same space) and how much is 
technical wizardry.

Thanks-

Lee Badman

Lee H. Badman
Wireless/Network Engineer
Information Technology and Services
Adjunct Instructor, iSchool
Syracuse University
315 443-3003


From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv 
[mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Harry Rauch
Sent: Tuesday, August 16, 2011 12:12 PM
To: 
WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDUmailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU
Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Ruckus

We have almost completely converted to Ruckus from Cisco and Extreme.

We have had very little need for support; the things just work. We have reduced 
our AP numbers by over 30% with better coverage. Once installed in a dorm 
setting we have never had to go back other than one device that drowned from a 
leaking air-conditioner pan. Our dealer replaced the device at no cost even 
though water damage of this nature is not covered.

The indoor models and outdoor function well and deliver outstanding data, video 
and VoIP. We are also using the wireless point-to-point bridge at a distance of 
500 yards with throughput at 250MB. We have the p2p pair on portable stands; 
one had blown over during a very bad storm but was able to keep connectivity 
when hanging upside down with the main dome facing a wall 180 degrees away from 
it's partner. We didn't realize the issue for several days since it never went 
down.

We use a Zone Director 1000 to establish a mesh group and to keep track of 
rogue devices. I

Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Ruckus

[Harry Rauch]

Real-world conditions almost always seem to shoot lab conditions in the 
foot. I think Tom's has done a follow-up recently that show some of the 
strengths and weaknesses of a wide variety of APs.


I think the beam-forming concept used by Ruckus is very interesting as 
well as very effective.


Harry Rauch Sr. Network Analyst Eckerd College 4200 - 54th Ave S St. 
Petersburg, FL 33711


On 8/17/11 9:20 AM, Mike King wrote:

The funny part about this article, Merikai is consistently horrible.

On Wed, Aug 17, 2011 at 9:19 AM, Mike King m...@mpking.com 
mailto:m...@mpking.com wrote:


I'm thinking the Unfiltered version is this one?

http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/wi-fi-performance,2985.html
(Which also references this article, (the first part in a 2 part
series))

http://www.tomshardware.com/picturestory/571-wi-fi-beamforming-networking.html



On Wed, Aug 17, 2011 at 8:47 AM, Kellogg, Brian D.
bkell...@sbu.edu mailto:bkell...@sbu.edu wrote:

We’re looking seriously at Ruckus to solve our coverage issues
simply due to the fact of where we had to install our APs in
our dorms (in the hallways).  Our initial tests show much
improved SNR over most vendors to the edge of our dorms with
their mid-range AP.  We had another vendor test almost as
good; Aruba (G SNR was a good bit lower but still above 30 in
most places, but A was a little higher on average).  These
tests were in a pristine wireless environment; no sacks of
water, books, etc… A lot of the performance difference on the
omni antennas, which all use except Ruckus, has to do with the
gain and thus the horizontal push from the antenna in our
environment.  We aren’t looking to decrease our AP count.

Brian

*From:*The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv
[mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU
mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] *On Behalf Of
*Lee H Badman
*Sent:* Wednesday, August 17, 2011 8:27 AM


*To:* WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU
mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU
*Subject:* Re: Ruckus

Excellent information, Harry- Thanks. I have a feeling Cisco
cringes to read that 3500 APs were tested with 4402s instead
of 5508 controllers.

-Lee Badman

*From:*Harry Rauch [mailto:rauc...@eckerd.edu
mailto:rauc...@eckerd.edu]
*Sent:* Wednesday, August 17, 2011 8:22 AM
*To:* The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv
*Cc:* Lee H Badman
*Subject:* Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Ruckus

Yes, we ran both systems at max power to allow for greatest
range; our densities in some lecture halls were over 150
active users for one array.

Ruckus provides a link to Tom's Hardware Guide that has done
some extensive testing of several front-line enterprises APs.
The results may surprise you.

Here's the link.


http://www.ruckuswireless.com/press/releases/20110718-independent-test-reveals-ruckus-outperforms-others

My suggestion would be to go to Tom's after reading the
filtered version for a more extensive explanation.

Harry Rauch Sr. Network Analyst Eckerd College 4200 - 54th Ave
S St. Petersburg, FL 33711


On 8/17/11 8:02 AM, Lee H Badman wrote:

Strictly out of scientific curiosity, is the reduction in APs
while gaining coverage based on similar power settings in both
hardware sets, and how do you answer the “yeah, but what about
client capacity concerns in dense areas?” question when the
number of APs and uplinks to the network is reduced? Again, no
axe to grind, genuinely curious.

I know Cisco’s CAPWAP solution seems to strive to keep APs at
less than full power. It’s even a metric in the RMM panel in
WCS “AP’s at maximum power” and the lower your percentage the
“better” things are considered to be, generally speaking.  At
the same time, we probably all have spaces where maybe 3 APs
would fill the building, but three times that are used to keep
cell size small and users per AP at a ratio that delivers
higher client throughputs on the wireless shared media. In
this case, we could certainly reduce our AP counts by upping
the power, but it comes with trade-offs.

I guess I’m wondering how much of the Ruckus advantages are
philosophical (simply use less APs at higher power to cover
same space) and how much is technical wizardry.

Thanks-

Lee Badman

Lee H. Badman

Wireless/Network Engineer

Information Technology and Services

Adjunct Instructor, iSchool

Syracuse University

315 443-3003 tel:315%20443-3003

*From:*The EDUCAUSE Wireless

Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Ruckus

[Harry Rauch]

I have found that the issue of using full power doesn't seem to affect 
the day-to-day use. If I were using a Ruckus in a small office I have 
been tempted to reduce power but have found this to be less than useful.



Harry Rauch Sr. Network Analyst Eckerd College 4200 - 54th Ave S St. 
Petersburg, FL 33711


On 8/17/11 10:07 AM, Kellogg, Brian D. wrote:


Due to the directional antenna array Ruckus uses they recommend not 
using dynamic power management.  Those that are using their APs; are 
you finding this to be viable in real world deployments?


-Brian #2

*From:*The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv 
[mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] *On Behalf Of *Brian Helman

*Sent:* Wednesday, August 17, 2011 9:59 AM
*To:* WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU
*Subject:* Re: Ruckus

Lee, one thing to be aware of is that these other companies (Ruckus, 
Xirrus, etc) use arrays, not access points.  So there are multiple 
radios per unit.  On a per-radio basis, the number of users may be 
similar to a single access point (we've found it to be higher by about 
20-30%), but collectively you can get a good number of users per unit.


Another thing to consider is the wiring to feed the AP.  If you have 
an AP running 11n, do you give it a 100Mbs connection or 1Gbs?  Which 
is the bigger waste of bandwidth? Now take a multi-radio device and 
ask the same question.  If you have 4 radios @ 11n each, then a 1Gbs 
connection scales perfectly.  Now the downside is, what if you only 
need to support 10-15 users.  An array is overkill.


-Brian

*From:*The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv 
[mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] *On Behalf Of *Lee H Badman

*Sent:* Wednesday, August 17, 2011 8:27 AM
*To:* WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU
*Subject:* Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Ruckus

Excellent information, Harry- Thanks. I have a feeling Cisco cringes 
to read that 3500 APs were tested with 4402s instead of 5508 controllers.


-Lee Badman

*From:*Harry Rauch [mailto:rauc...@eckerd.edu] 
mailto:[mailto:rauc...@eckerd.edu]

*Sent:* Wednesday, August 17, 2011 8:22 AM
*To:* The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv
*Cc:* Lee H Badman
*Subject:* Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Ruckus

Yes, we ran both systems at max power to allow for greatest range; our 
densities in some lecture halls were over 150 active users for one array.


Ruckus provides a link to Tom's Hardware Guide that has done some 
extensive testing of several front-line enterprises APs. The results 
may surprise you.


Here's the link.

http://www.ruckuswireless.com/press/releases/20110718-independent-test-reveals-ruckus-outperforms-others

My suggestion would be to go to Tom's after reading the filtered 
version for a more extensive explanation.


Harry Rauch Sr. Network Analyst Eckerd College 4200 - 54th Ave S St. 
Petersburg, FL 33711



On 8/17/11 8:02 AM, Lee H Badman wrote:

Strictly out of scientific curiosity, is the reduction in APs while 
gaining coverage based on similar power settings in both hardware 
sets, and how do you answer the yeah, but what about client capacity 
concerns in dense areas? question when the number of APs and uplinks 
to the network is reduced? Again, no axe to grind, genuinely curious.


I know Cisco's CAPWAP solution seems to strive to keep APs at less 
than full power. It's even a metric in the RMM panel in WCS AP's at 
maximum power and the lower your percentage the better things are 
considered to be, generally speaking.  At the same time, we probably 
all have spaces where maybe 3 APs would fill the building, but three 
times that are used to keep cell size small and users per AP at a 
ratio that delivers higher client throughputs on the wireless shared 
media. In this case, we could certainly reduce our AP counts by upping 
the power, but it comes with trade-offs.


I guess I'm wondering how much of the Ruckus advantages are 
philosophical (simply use less APs at higher power to cover same 
space) and how much is technical wizardry.


Thanks-

Lee Badman

Lee H. Badman

Wireless/Network Engineer

Information Technology and Services

Adjunct Instructor, iSchool

Syracuse University

315 443-3003

*From:*The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv 
[mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] *On Behalf Of *Harry Rauch

*Sent:* Tuesday, August 16, 2011 12:12 PM
*To:* WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU 
mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU

*Subject:* Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Ruckus

We have almost completely converted to Ruckus from Cisco and Extreme.

We have had very little need for support; the things just work. We 
have reduced our AP numbers by over 30% with better coverage. Once 
installed in a dorm setting we have never had to go back other than 
one device that drowned from a leaking air-conditioner pan. Our dealer 
replaced the device at no cost even though water damage of this nature 
is not covered.


The indoor models and outdoor function well and deliver

Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Ruckus

[Johnson, Bruce T.]

The question I have had with Ruckus is how their APs coordinate their 
beamforming activities so as to not contend for the same clients. It seems 
there would need to be a control plane to avoid AP contention.

How does one survey for these APs? Do you factor in the beamforming (unicast 
frames, active survey) or not (broadcast frames, and passive survey)?

Thanks,

Bruce T. Johnson | Network Engineer | Partners Healthcare
617.726.9662 | bjohns...@partners.org

-Original Message-
From: Lee H Badman [lhbad...@syr.edu]
Received: Wednesday, 17 Aug 2011, 10:08am
To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU [WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU]
Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Ruckus

Agreed- and it is fascinating stuff.

From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv 
[WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Brian Helman 
[bhel...@salemstate.edu]
Sent: Wednesday, August 17, 2011 9:59 AM
To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU
Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Ruckus

Lee, one thing to be aware of is that these other companies (Ruckus, Xirrus, 
etc) use arrays, not access points.  So there are multiple radios per unit.  On 
a per-radio basis, the number of users may be similar to a single access point 
(we’ve found it to be higher by about 20-30%), but collectively you can get a 
good number of users per unit.

Another thing to consider is the wiring to feed the AP.  If you have an AP 
running 11n, do you give it a 100Mbs connection or 1Gbs?  Which is the bigger 
waste of bandwidth? Now take a multi-radio device and ask the same question.  
If you have 4 radios @ 11n each, then a 1Gbs connection scales perfectly.  Now 
the downside is, what if you only need to support 10-15 users.  An array is 
overkill.

-Brian

From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv 
[mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Lee H Badman
Sent: Wednesday, August 17, 2011 8:27 AM
To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU
Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Ruckus

Excellent information, Harry- Thanks. I have a feeling Cisco cringes to read 
that 3500 APs were tested with 4402s instead of 5508 controllers.

-Lee Badman


From: Harry Rauch 
[mailto:rauc...@eckerd.edu]mailto:[mailto:rauc...@eckerd.edu]
Sent: Wednesday, August 17, 2011 8:22 AM
To: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv
Cc: Lee H Badman
Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Ruckus

Yes, we ran both systems at max power to allow for greatest range; our 
densities in some lecture halls were over 150 active users for one array.

Ruckus provides a link to Tom's Hardware Guide that has done some extensive 
testing of several front-line enterprises APs. The results may surprise you.

Here's the link.

http://www.ruckuswireless.com/press/releases/20110718-independent-test-reveals-ruckus-outperforms-others

My suggestion would be to go to Tom's after reading the filtered version for 
a more extensive explanation.
Harry Rauch Sr. Network Analyst Eckerd College 4200 - 54th Ave S St. 
Petersburg, FL 33711

On 8/17/11 8:02 AM, Lee H Badman wrote:
Strictly out of scientific curiosity, is the reduction in APs while gaining 
coverage based on similar power settings in both hardware sets, and how do you 
answer the “yeah, but what about client capacity concerns in dense areas?” 
question when the number of APs and uplinks to the network is reduced? Again, 
no axe to grind, genuinely curious.

I know Cisco’s CAPWAP solution seems to strive to keep APs at less than full 
power. It’s even a metric in the RMM panel in WCS “AP’s at maximum power” and 
the lower your percentage the “better” things are considered to be, generally 
speaking.  At the same time, we probably all have spaces where maybe 3 APs 
would fill the building, but three times that are used to keep cell size small 
and users per AP at a ratio that delivers higher client throughputs on the 
wireless shared media. In this case, we could certainly reduce our AP counts by 
upping the power, but it comes with trade-offs.

I guess I’m wondering how much of the Ruckus advantages are philosophical 
(simply use less APs at higher power to cover same space) and how much is 
technical wizardry.

Thanks-

Lee Badman

Lee H. Badman
Wireless/Network Engineer
Information Technology and Services
Adjunct Instructor, iSchool
Syracuse University
315 443-3003


From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv 
[mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Harry Rauch
Sent: Tuesday, August 16, 2011 12:12 PM
To: 
WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDUmailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU
Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Ruckus

We have almost completely converted to Ruckus from Cisco and Extreme.

We have had very little need for support; the things just work. We have reduced 
our AP numbers by over 30% with better coverage. Once installed in a dorm 
setting we have never had to go back other than one device that drowned from a 
leaking air-conditioner

RE: Ruckus

[Kellogg, Brian D.]

That is one of my concerns as well.  I've not been able to find a good answer 
to it as yet.

Brian

-Original Message-
From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv 
[mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Johnson, Bruce T.
Sent: Wednesday, August 17, 2011 10:38 AM
To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU
Subject: Re: Ruckus

The question I have had with Ruckus is how their APs coordinate their 
beamforming activities so as to not contend for the same clients. It seems 
there would need to be a control plane to avoid AP contention.

How does one survey for these APs? Do you factor in the beamforming (unicast 
frames, active survey) or not (broadcast frames, and passive survey)?

Thanks,

Bruce T. Johnson | Network Engineer | Partners Healthcare
617.726.9662 | bjohns...@partners.org

-Original Message-
From: Lee H Badman [lhbad...@syr.edu]
Received: Wednesday, 17 Aug 2011, 10:08am
To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU [WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU]
Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Ruckus

Agreed- and it is fascinating stuff.

From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv 
[WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Brian Helman 
[bhel...@salemstate.edu]
Sent: Wednesday, August 17, 2011 9:59 AM
To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU
Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Ruckus

Lee, one thing to be aware of is that these other companies (Ruckus, Xirrus, 
etc) use arrays, not access points.  So there are multiple radios per unit.  On 
a per-radio basis, the number of users may be similar to a single access point 
(we've found it to be higher by about 20-30%), but collectively you can get a 
good number of users per unit.

Another thing to consider is the wiring to feed the AP.  If you have an AP 
running 11n, do you give it a 100Mbs connection or 1Gbs?  Which is the bigger 
waste of bandwidth? Now take a multi-radio device and ask the same question.  
If you have 4 radios @ 11n each, then a 1Gbs connection scales perfectly.  Now 
the downside is, what if you only need to support 10-15 users.  An array is 
overkill.

-Brian

From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv 
[mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Lee H Badman
Sent: Wednesday, August 17, 2011 8:27 AM
To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU
Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Ruckus

Excellent information, Harry- Thanks. I have a feeling Cisco cringes to read 
that 3500 APs were tested with 4402s instead of 5508 controllers.

-Lee Badman


From: Harry Rauch 
[mailto:rauc...@eckerd.edu]mailto:[mailto:rauc...@eckerd.edu]
Sent: Wednesday, August 17, 2011 8:22 AM
To: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv
Cc: Lee H Badman
Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Ruckus

Yes, we ran both systems at max power to allow for greatest range; our 
densities in some lecture halls were over 150 active users for one array.

Ruckus provides a link to Tom's Hardware Guide that has done some extensive 
testing of several front-line enterprises APs. The results may surprise you.

Here's the link.

http://www.ruckuswireless.com/press/releases/20110718-independent-test-reveals-ruckus-outperforms-others

My suggestion would be to go to Tom's after reading the filtered version for 
a more extensive explanation.
Harry Rauch Sr. Network Analyst Eckerd College 4200 - 54th Ave S St. 
Petersburg, FL 33711

On 8/17/11 8:02 AM, Lee H Badman wrote:
Strictly out of scientific curiosity, is the reduction in APs while gaining 
coverage based on similar power settings in both hardware sets, and how do you 
answer the yeah, but what about client capacity concerns in dense areas? 
question when the number of APs and uplinks to the network is reduced? Again, 
no axe to grind, genuinely curious.

I know Cisco's CAPWAP solution seems to strive to keep APs at less than full 
power. It's even a metric in the RMM panel in WCS AP's at maximum power and 
the lower your percentage the better things are considered to be, generally 
speaking.  At the same time, we probably all have spaces where maybe 3 APs 
would fill the building, but three times that are used to keep cell size small 
and users per AP at a ratio that delivers higher client throughputs on the 
wireless shared media. In this case, we could certainly reduce our AP counts by 
upping the power, but it comes with trade-offs.

I guess I'm wondering how much of the Ruckus advantages are philosophical 
(simply use less APs at higher power to cover same space) and how much is 
technical wizardry.

Thanks-

Lee Badman

Lee H. Badman
Wireless/Network Engineer
Information Technology and Services
Adjunct Instructor, iSchool
Syracuse University
315 443-3003


From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv 
[mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Harry Rauch
Sent: Tuesday, August 16, 2011 12:12 PM
To: 
WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDUmailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU

Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Ruckus

[Harry Rauch]

From what I can tell they use the MAC address as a base identifier; in 
a mesh the system identifies the device and somehow decides and which AP 
has a better signal/connection. Unmeshed APs simply hold on to the 
device until the signal becomes too weak when another AP would be picked 
up by the computer.


Ekahau has a free WiFi heatmap that we use to identify weak areas. There 
are many more out there but I like free and it does a good job for us. 
It is passive in nature.



Harry Rauch Sr. Network Analyst Eckerd College 4200 - 54th Ave S St. 
Petersburg, FL 33711


On 8/17/11 10:38 AM, Johnson, Bruce T. wrote:

The question I have had with Ruckus is how their APs coordinate their 
beamforming activities so as to not contend for the same clients. It seems 
there would need to be a control plane to avoid AP contention.

How does one survey for these APs? Do you factor in the beamforming (unicast 
frames, active survey) or not (broadcast frames, and passive survey)?

Thanks,

Bruce T. Johnson | Network Engineer | Partners Healthcare
617.726.9662 | bjohns...@partners.org

-Original Message-
From: Lee H Badman [lhbad...@syr.edu]
Received: Wednesday, 17 Aug 2011, 10:08am
To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU [WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU]
Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Ruckus

Agreed- and it is fascinating stuff.

From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv 
[WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Brian Helman 
[bhel...@salemstate.edu]
Sent: Wednesday, August 17, 2011 9:59 AM
To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU
Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Ruckus

Lee, one thing to be aware of is that these other companies (Ruckus, Xirrus, 
etc) use arrays, not access points.  So there are multiple radios per unit.  On 
a per-radio basis, the number of users may be similar to a single access point 
(we’ve found it to be higher by about 20-30%), but collectively you can get a 
good number of users per unit.

Another thing to consider is the wiring to feed the AP.  If you have an AP 
running 11n, do you give it a 100Mbs connection or 1Gbs?  Which is the bigger 
waste of bandwidth? Now take a multi-radio device and ask the same question.  
If you have 4 radios @ 11n each, then a 1Gbs connection scales perfectly.  Now 
the downside is, what if you only need to support 10-15 users.  An array is 
overkill.

-Brian

From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv 
[mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Lee H Badman
Sent: Wednesday, August 17, 2011 8:27 AM
To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU
Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Ruckus

Excellent information, Harry- Thanks. I have a feeling Cisco cringes to read 
that 3500 APs were tested with 4402s instead of 5508 controllers.

-Lee Badman


From: Harry Rauch 
[mailto:rauc...@eckerd.edu]mailto:[mailto:rauc...@eckerd.edu]
Sent: Wednesday, August 17, 2011 8:22 AM
To: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv
Cc: Lee H Badman
Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Ruckus

Yes, we ran both systems at max power to allow for greatest range; our 
densities in some lecture halls were over 150 active users for one array.

Ruckus provides a link to Tom's Hardware Guide that has done some extensive 
testing of several front-line enterprises APs. The results may surprise you.

Here's the link.

http://www.ruckuswireless.com/press/releases/20110718-independent-test-reveals-ruckus-outperforms-others

My suggestion would be to go to Tom's after reading the filtered version for 
a more extensive explanation.
Harry Rauch Sr. Network Analyst Eckerd College 4200 - 54th Ave S St. 
Petersburg, FL 33711

On 8/17/11 8:02 AM, Lee H Badman wrote:
Strictly out of scientific curiosity, is the reduction in APs while gaining 
coverage based on similar power settings in both hardware sets, and how do you 
answer the “yeah, but what about client capacity concerns in dense areas?” 
question when the number of APs and uplinks to the network is reduced? Again, 
no axe to grind, genuinely curious.

I know Cisco’s CAPWAP solution seems to strive to keep APs at less than full 
power. It’s even a metric in the RMM panel in WCS “AP’s at maximum power” and 
the lower your percentage the “better” things are considered to be, generally 
speaking.  At the same time, we probably all have spaces where maybe 3 APs 
would fill the building, but three times that are used to keep cell size small 
and users per AP at a ratio that delivers higher client throughputs on the 
wireless shared media. In this case, we could certainly reduce our AP counts by 
upping the power, but it comes with trade-offs.

I guess I’m wondering how much of the Ruckus advantages are philosophical 
(simply use less APs at higher power to cover same space) and how much is 
technical wizardry.

Thanks-

Lee Badman

Lee H. Badman
Wireless/Network Engineer
Information Technology and Services
Adjunct Instructor, iSchool
Syracuse University
315 443

Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Ruckus

[Marcus Burton]

In a general sense, I would question putting Ruckus and Xirrus in the same 
group as arrays. The two are quite different.

From a radio hardware perspective, Ruckus APs are the same as any other access 
point, in that they offer combinations of single or dual radio 2.4 and 5 GHz 
APs. Their indoor APs max at two radios, like most other APs (e.g. Cisco, 
Aruba, etc.). Their array is not a radio array, it's an antenna array, 
dynamically changing physical antenna usage to shape the RF. 

On the other hand, Xirrus uses a true radio array, incorporating four or more 
radios into each box. Each radio is mapped, statically, to a directional 
antenna(or antennas, with MIMO). All directional antennas, taken together, then 
provide omni-directional coverage. 

With the Xirrus radio array, I agree completely with your point about backhaul 
considerations. With Ruckus, I wouldn't think of wired backhaul design 
differently than other APs.

thanks,
Marcus Burton
Dir. of Product Development
CWNP

 
 

Lee, one thing to be aware of is that these other companies (Ruckus, Xirrus, 
etc) use arrays, not access points.  So there are multiple radios per unit.  On 
a per-radio basis, the number of users may be similar to a single access point 
(we?ve found it to be higher by about 20-30%), but collectively you can get a 
good number of users per unit.  
 
Another thing to consider is the wiring to feed the AP.  If you have an AP 
running 11n, do you give it a 100Mbs connection or 1Gbs?  Which is the bigger 
waste of bandwidth? Now take a multi-radio device and ask the same question.  
If you have 4 radios @ 11n each, then a 1Gbs connection scales perfectly.  Now 
the downside is, what if you only need to support 10-15 users.  An array is 
overkill.
 
-Brian
 
From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv 
[mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Lee H Badman
Sent: Wednesday, August 17, 2011 8:27 AM
To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU
Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Ruckus
 
Excellent information, Harry- Thanks. I have a feeling Cisco cringes to read 
that 3500 APs were tested with 4402s instead of 5508 controllers.
 
-Lee Badman
 
 
From: Harry Rauch [mailto:rauc...@eckerd.edu] 
Sent: Wednesday, August 17, 2011 8:22 AM
To: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv
Cc: Lee H Badman
Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Ruckus
 
Yes, we ran both systems at max power to allow for greatest range; our 
densities in some lecture halls were over 150 active users for one array.

Ruckus provides a link to Tom's Hardware Guide that has done some extensive 
testing of several front-line enterprises APs. The results may surprise you.

Here's the link.

http://www.ruckuswireless.com/press/releases/20110718-independent-test-reveals-ruckus-outperforms-others

My suggestion would be to go to Tom's after reading the filtered version for 
a more extensive explanation.
Harry Rauch Sr. Network Analyst Eckerd College 4200 - 54th Ave S St. 
Petersburg, FL 33711

On 8/17/11 8:02 AM, Lee H Badman wrote: 
Strictly out of scientific curiosity, is the reduction in APs while gaining 
coverage based on similar power settings in both hardware sets, and how do you 
answer the ?yeah, but what about client capacity concerns in dense areas?? 
question when the number of APs and uplinks to the network is reduced? Again, 
no axe to grind, genuinely curious.
 
I know Cisco?s CAPWAP solution seems to strive to keep APs at less than full 
power. It?s even a metric in the RMM panel in WCS ?AP?s at maximum power? and 
the lower your percentage the ?better? things are considered to be, generally 
speaking.  At the same time, we probably all have spaces where maybe 3 APs 
would fill the building, but three times that are used to keep cell size small 
and users per AP at a ratio that delivers higher client throughputs on the 
wireless shared media. In this case, we could certainly reduce our AP counts by 
upping the power, but it comes with trade-offs.
 
I guess I?m wondering how much of the Ruckus advantages are philosophical 
(simply use less APs at higher power to cover same space) and how much is 
technical wizardry.
 
Thanks-
 
Lee Badman
 
Lee H. Badman
Wireless/Network Engineer
Information Technology and Services
Adjunct Instructor, iSchool
Syracuse University
315 443-3003
 
 
From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv 
[mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Harry Rauch
Sent: Tuesday, August 16, 2011 12:12 PM
To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU
Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Ruckus
 
We have almost completely converted to Ruckus from Cisco and Extreme.

We have had very little need for support; the things just work. We have reduced 
our AP numbers by over 30% with better coverage. Once installed in a dorm 
setting we have never had to go back other than one device that drowned from a 
leaking air-conditioner pan. Our dealer replaced the device at no cost even 
though water damage

Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Ruckus

[Johnson, Bruce T.]

Thanks,

That makes sense, since the client decides anyway. It seems this may make the 
decision less clear to clients without AP coordination, but perhaps not. The AP 
co-channel interference reduction offered by Ruckus is certainly appealing, 
especially for mesh.

Thanks,

Bruce T. Johnson | Network Engineer | Partners Healthcare
617.726.9662 | bjohns...@partners.org

-Original Message-
From: Harry Rauch [rauc...@eckerd.edu]
Received: Wednesday, 17 Aug 2011, 10:49am
To: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv 
[WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU]
CC: Johnson, Bruce T. [bjohns...@partners.org]
Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Ruckus

From what I can tell they use the MAC address as a base identifier; in a mesh 
the system identifies the device and somehow decides and which AP has a better 
signal/connection. Unmeshed APs simply hold on to the device until the 
signal becomes too weak when another AP would be picked up by the computer.

Ekahau has a free WiFi heatmap that we use to identify weak areas. There are 
many more out there but I like free and it does a good job for us. It is 
passive in nature.


Harry Rauch Sr. Network Analyst Eckerd College 4200 - 54th Ave S St. 
Petersburg, FL 33711

On 8/17/11 10:38 AM, Johnson, Bruce T. wrote:

The question I have had with Ruckus is how their APs coordinate their 
beamforming activities so as to not contend for the same clients. It seems 
there would need to be a control plane to avoid AP contention.

How does one survey for these APs? Do you factor in the beamforming (unicast 
frames, active survey) or not (broadcast frames, and passive survey)?

Thanks,

Bruce T. Johnson | Network Engineer | Partners Healthcare
617.726.9662 | bjohns...@partners.orgmailto:bjohns...@partners.org

-Original Message-
From: Lee H Badman [lhbad...@syr.edumailto:lhbad...@syr.edu]
Received: Wednesday, 17 Aug 2011, 10:08am
To: 
WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDUmailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU 
[WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDUmailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU]
Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Ruckus

Agreed- and it is fascinating stuff.

From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv 
[WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDUmailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] 
On Behalf Of Brian Helman 
[bhel...@salemstate.edumailto:bhel...@salemstate.edu]
Sent: Wednesday, August 17, 2011 9:59 AM
To: 
WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDUmailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU
Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Ruckus

Lee, one thing to be aware of is that these other companies (Ruckus, Xirrus, 
etc) use arrays, not access points.  So there are multiple radios per unit.  On 
a per-radio basis, the number of users may be similar to a single access point 
(we’ve found it to be higher by about 20-30%), but collectively you can get a 
good number of users per unit.

Another thing to consider is the wiring to feed the AP.  If you have an AP 
running 11n, do you give it a 100Mbs connection or 1Gbs?  Which is the bigger 
waste of bandwidth? Now take a multi-radio device and ask the same question.  
If you have 4 radios @ 11n each, then a 1Gbs connection scales perfectly.  Now 
the downside is, what if you only need to support 10-15 users.  An array is 
overkill.

-Brian

From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv 
[mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Lee H Badman
Sent: Wednesday, August 17, 2011 8:27 AM
To: 
WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDUmailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU
Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Ruckus

Excellent information, Harry- Thanks. I have a feeling Cisco cringes to read 
that 3500 APs were tested with 4402s instead of 5508 controllers.

-Lee Badman


From: Harry Rauch 
[mailto:rauc...@eckerd.edu]mailto:[mailto:rauc...@eckerd.edu]mailto:[mailto:rauc...@eckerd.edu]
Sent: Wednesday, August 17, 2011 8:22 AM
To: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv
Cc: Lee H Badman
Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Ruckus

Yes, we ran both systems at max power to allow for greatest range; our 
densities in some lecture halls were over 150 active users for one array.

Ruckus provides a link to Tom's Hardware Guide that has done some extensive 
testing of several front-line enterprises APs. The results may surprise you.

Here's the link.

http://www.ruckuswireless.com/press/releases/20110718-independent-test-reveals-ruckus-outperforms-others

My suggestion would be to go to Tom's after reading the filtered version for 
a more extensive explanation.
Harry Rauch Sr. Network Analyst Eckerd College 4200 - 54th Ave S St. 
Petersburg, FL 33711

On 8/17/11 8:02 AM, Lee H Badman wrote:
Strictly out of scientific curiosity, is the reduction in APs while gaining 
coverage based on similar power settings in both hardware sets, and how do you 
answer the “yeah, but what about client capacity concerns in dense areas?” 
question when the number of APs and uplinks

Re: Ruckus

[Dan Young]

Interesting eval of some older Ruckus gear by Stuart Cheshire:
http://www.stuartcheshire.org/papers/Ruckus-WiFi-Evaluation.pdf

He's an Apple engineer primarily responsible for Zeroconf, co-author
of several RFCs, and wrote the classic Mac game Bolo!

Go Google that, kids...

--
Dan Young dyo...@mesd.k12.or.us
Multnomah ESD - Technology Services
503-257-1562



On Tue, Aug 16, 2011 at 8:50 AM, Kellogg, Brian D. bkell...@sbu.edu wrote:
 Looking for feedback from any institutions using Ruckus as their WLAN
 solution.



 Comments on their support, WAPs, Controllers, client problems and any other
 related topics would be appreciated.





 Thanks,

 Brian

 ** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE
 Constituent Group discussion list can be found at
 http://www.educause.edu/groups/.

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Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Ruckus

[Johnson, Bruce T.]

Do you modify Mandatory/Supported the data rates on Ruckus APs?

I suspect keeping lower Mandatory rates allows clients to associate at long 
range with broadcast frames sent omni-directionally, after which beamforming 
kicks in for unidirectional data frames at higher data rates.

Thanks,

Bruce T. Johnson | Network Engineer | Partners Healthcare
617.726.9662 | bjohns...@partners.org

-Original Message-
From: Harry Rauch [rauc...@eckerd.edu]
Received: Wednesday, 17 Aug 2011, 10:49am
To: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv 
[WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU]
CC: Johnson, Bruce T. [bjohns...@partners.org]
Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Ruckus

From what I can tell they use the MAC address as a base identifier; in a mesh 
the system identifies the device and somehow decides and which AP has a better 
signal/connection. Unmeshed APs simply hold on to the device until the 
signal becomes too weak when another AP would be picked up by the computer.

Ekahau has a free WiFi heatmap that we use to identify weak areas. There are 
many more out there but I like free and it does a good job for us. It is 
passive in nature.


Harry Rauch Sr. Network Analyst Eckerd College 4200 - 54th Ave S St. 
Petersburg, FL 33711

On 8/17/11 10:38 AM, Johnson, Bruce T. wrote:

The question I have had with Ruckus is how their APs coordinate their 
beamforming activities so as to not contend for the same clients. It seems 
there would need to be a control plane to avoid AP contention.

How does one survey for these APs? Do you factor in the beamforming (unicast 
frames, active survey) or not (broadcast frames, and passive survey)?

Thanks,

Bruce T. Johnson | Network Engineer | Partners Healthcare
617.726.9662 | bjohns...@partners.orgmailto:bjohns...@partners.org

-Original Message-
From: Lee H Badman [lhbad...@syr.edumailto:lhbad...@syr.edu]
Received: Wednesday, 17 Aug 2011, 10:08am
To: 
WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDUmailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU 
[WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDUmailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU]
Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Ruckus

Agreed- and it is fascinating stuff.

From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv 
[WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDUmailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] 
On Behalf Of Brian Helman 
[bhel...@salemstate.edumailto:bhel...@salemstate.edu]
Sent: Wednesday, August 17, 2011 9:59 AM
To: 
WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDUmailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU
Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Ruckus

Lee, one thing to be aware of is that these other companies (Ruckus, Xirrus, 
etc) use arrays, not access points.  So there are multiple radios per unit.  On 
a per-radio basis, the number of users may be similar to a single access point 
(we’ve found it to be higher by about 20-30%), but collectively you can get a 
good number of users per unit.

Another thing to consider is the wiring to feed the AP.  If you have an AP 
running 11n, do you give it a 100Mbs connection or 1Gbs?  Which is the bigger 
waste of bandwidth? Now take a multi-radio device and ask the same question.  
If you have 4 radios @ 11n each, then a 1Gbs connection scales perfectly.  Now 
the downside is, what if you only need to support 10-15 users.  An array is 
overkill.

-Brian

From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv 
[mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Lee H Badman
Sent: Wednesday, August 17, 2011 8:27 AM
To: 
WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDUmailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU
Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Ruckus

Excellent information, Harry- Thanks. I have a feeling Cisco cringes to read 
that 3500 APs were tested with 4402s instead of 5508 controllers.

-Lee Badman


From: Harry Rauch 
[mailto:rauc...@eckerd.edu]mailto:[mailto:rauc...@eckerd.edu]mailto:[mailto:rauc...@eckerd.edu]
Sent: Wednesday, August 17, 2011 8:22 AM
To: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv
Cc: Lee H Badman
Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Ruckus

Yes, we ran both systems at max power to allow for greatest range; our 
densities in some lecture halls were over 150 active users for one array.

Ruckus provides a link to Tom's Hardware Guide that has done some extensive 
testing of several front-line enterprises APs. The results may surprise you.

Here's the link.

http://www.ruckuswireless.com/press/releases/20110718-independent-test-reveals-ruckus-outperforms-others

My suggestion would be to go to Tom's after reading the filtered version for 
a more extensive explanation.
Harry Rauch Sr. Network Analyst Eckerd College 4200 - 54th Ave S St. 
Petersburg, FL 33711

On 8/17/11 8:02 AM, Lee H Badman wrote:
Strictly out of scientific curiosity, is the reduction in APs while gaining 
coverage based on similar power settings in both hardware sets, and how do you 
answer the “yeah, but what about client capacity concerns in dense areas?” 
question when the number of APs

Ruckus

[Kellogg, Brian D.]

Looking for feedback from any institutions using Ruckus as their WLAN solution.

Comments on their support, WAPs, Controllers, client problems and any other 
related topics would be appreciated.


Thanks,
Brian

**
Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group 
discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/.

Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Ruckus

[Harry Rauch]

We have almost completely converted to Ruckus from Cisco and Extreme.

We have had very little need for support; the things just work. We have 
reduced our AP numbers by over 30% with better coverage. Once installed 
in a dorm setting we have never had to go back other than one device 
that drowned from a leaking air-conditioner pan. Our dealer replaced the 
device at no cost even though water damage of this nature is not covered.


The indoor models and outdoor function well and deliver outstanding 
data, video and VoIP. We are also using the wireless point-to-point 
bridge at a distance of 500 yards with throughput at 250MB. We have the 
p2p pair on portable stands; one had blown over during a very bad storm 
but was able to keep connectivity when hanging upside down with the main 
dome facing a wall 180 degrees away from it's partner. We didn't realize 
the issue for several days since it never went down.


We use a Zone Director 1000 to establish a mesh group and to keep track 
of rogue devices. I would like a 3000 but we don't have that in our 
budget lines at the moment. We have over 100 APs throughout the campus.


We have had them almost 2 years with no issues. Client problems have not 
been an issue.


Amazing devices.

Harry Rauch Sr. Network Analyst Eckerd College 4200 - 54th Ave S St. 
Petersburg, FL 33711


On 8/16/11 11:50 AM, Kellogg, Brian D. wrote:


Looking for feedback from any institutions using Ruckus as their WLAN 
solution.


Comments on their support, WAPs, Controllers, client problems and any 
other related topics would be appreciated.


Thanks,

Brian

** Participation and subscription information for this 
EDUCAUSE Constituent Group discussion list can be found at 
http://www.educause.edu/groups/.




**
Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group 
discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/.

Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Ruckus

[Tim Gross]

We could agree with Harry's assessment.
 
We are just completing our implementation of Ruckus on our campus.  We are also 
converting from Cisco.  
 
We are very happy with every aspect of the equipment.  One example is in our 
Science building.  We replaced 14 Cisco 1242 APs with 10 Ruckus 7962 APs.  
Besides being 1/2-2/3 the price the coverage is amazing.  We're seeing probably 
a 20-30% increase in coverage and have eliminated all our dead spots.
 
We did a pretty intense comparison before choosing Ruckus and determined that 
the performance  value were by far the best.  Lot's of cool features and so 
far very reliable.
 
Definitely worth a look.

 
Tim Gross
Northwest Nazarene University
Network Systems Administrator
(208) 467-8959 Harry Rauch rauc...@eckerd.edu 8/16/2011 10:12 AM 
We have almost completely converted to Ruckus from Cisco and Extreme.

We have had very little need for support; the things just work. We have reduced 
our AP numbers by over 30% with better coverage. Once installed in a dorm 
setting we have never had to go back other than one device that drowned from a 
leaking air-conditioner pan. Our dealer replaced the device at no cost even 
though water damage of this nature is not covered.

The indoor models and outdoor function well and deliver outstanding data, video 
and VoIP. We are also using the wireless point-to-point bridge at a distance of 
500 yards with throughput at 250MB. We have the p2p pair on portable stands; 
one had blown over during a very bad storm but was able to keep connectivity 
when hanging upside down with the main dome facing a wall 180 degrees away from 
it's partner. We didn't realize the issue for several days since it never went 
down.

We use a Zone Director 1000 to establish a mesh group and to keep track of 
rogue devices. I would like a 3000 but we don't have that in our budget lines 
at the moment. We have over 100 APs throughout the campus.

We have had them almost 2 years with no issues. Client problems have not been 
an issue. 

Amazing devices.

Harry Rauch Sr. Network Analyst Eckerd College 4200 - 54th Ave S St. 
Petersburg, FL 33711

On 8/16/11 11:50 AM, Kellogg, Brian D. wrote: 


Looking for feedback from any institutions using Ruckus as their WLAN solution.

Comments on their support, WAPs, Controllers, client problems and any other 
related topics would be appreciated.


Thanks,
Brian
** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE 
Constituent Group discussion list can be found at 
http://www.educause.edu/groups/. 
** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE 
Constituent Group discussion list can be found at 
http://www.educause.edu/groups/. 

**
Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group 
discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/.